WEBVTT - Old Crow Medicine Show 0:00:15.436 --> 0:00:22.596 Pushkin. Hey everyone, today we're featuring a chat with two 0:00:22.636 --> 0:00:26.156 members of the Nashville based string band Old Crow Medicine Show. 0:00:26.636 --> 0:00:30.436 We've got lead singer Catch scor and drummer Jerry Pentecost. 0:00:30.956 --> 0:00:33.676 Since Foreman in nineteen ninety eight, Old Crow has helped 0:00:33.676 --> 0:00:36.756 to preserve folk and blues songs that often pre date 0:00:36.876 --> 0:00:39.396 even World War Two. Of course, in the best of 0:00:39.436 --> 0:00:41.596 the folk tradition, they put their own spin on those 0:00:41.596 --> 0:00:44.956 songs and also have written a number of their own tunes. 0:00:45.676 --> 0:00:48.636 Old Crow's most successful song to date, the platinum certified 0:00:48.636 --> 0:00:51.716 wagon Wheel, was written around a Bob Dylan course catch 0:00:51.756 --> 0:00:55.436 Herd on an Old Dylan bootleg. In twenty thirteen, Darius 0:00:55.516 --> 0:00:58.756 Rucker of Hooting the Blowfish covered that song, making it 0:00:58.796 --> 0:01:02.356 a contemporary country music hit and even earned a Grammy. 0:01:02.596 --> 0:01:05.236 On today's episode, Bruce Sellem talks to Catch Scorps and 0:01:05.316 --> 0:01:08.916 Jerry Pentecost about Old Crow's latest album, Paint This Town. 0:01:09.636 --> 0:01:12.556 They share how the raising awareness around the major contributions 0:01:12.636 --> 0:01:16.236 black musicians like Ray Charles and d Ford Bailey have 0:01:16.436 --> 0:01:20.076 made to country music, and then Ketch recalls Old Crow's 0:01:20.116 --> 0:01:22.796 early days when they went through what he calls hill 0:01:22.836 --> 0:01:26.756 Billy Bootcamp learning how to make whiskey farm tobacco and 0:01:27.156 --> 0:01:33.956 also shoot groundhogs. This is broken record liner notes for 0:01:34.036 --> 0:01:38.116 the digital Age. I'm justin Richmond. Here's Bruce Adlam with 0:01:38.196 --> 0:01:42.436 Ketch C Corps and Jerry Pentecost of Old Crow Medicine Show. 0:01:42.996 --> 0:01:46.036 So we're welcoming one third of the Old Crow Medicine Show, 0:01:46.716 --> 0:01:50.996 catch S Corp and Jerry Pentecost. Welcome, Thank you so 0:01:51.076 --> 0:01:53.676 much for doing this, Thanks for having us. It's wonderful 0:01:53.716 --> 0:01:55.876 to be here. You have a new album out on 0:01:56.076 --> 0:01:59.316 Ato Records, Is that right? That's right, and it's called 0:01:59.636 --> 0:02:04.716 Paint This Town and it is a very ambitious, sprawling 0:02:05.396 --> 0:02:08.996 album with a lot of different styles. And I'm much 0:02:09.116 --> 0:02:11.396 heavier sound even than your last album, which people said 0:02:11.396 --> 0:02:13.796 had a very heavy sound. Can you tell me just 0:02:13.836 --> 0:02:16.196 a little bit about making this record, how it all 0:02:16.236 --> 0:02:20.076 came together? Well, sure, thanks for that introduction of it. 0:02:20.316 --> 0:02:23.396 I like anything that sounds ambitious sounds cool to me, 0:02:23.476 --> 0:02:25.996 especially here in New York City. Well, so, yeah, we're 0:02:26.036 --> 0:02:27.956 just trying to keep up with the times. Man. There's 0:02:27.956 --> 0:02:30.356 a lot to sing about and talk about in times 0:02:30.356 --> 0:02:33.716 like these, and this was the record that we made 0:02:33.716 --> 0:02:37.516 in face masks from a six foot distance in an 0:02:37.596 --> 0:02:42.316 unvaccinated space because they weren't available yet, just waiting for 0:02:42.356 --> 0:02:46.396 the final green light to go down to the Walmart 0:02:46.476 --> 0:02:50.756 and Franklin and get our first shot. I said before, 0:02:50.796 --> 0:02:54.036 it is very ambitious. It's a very rocking record for 0:02:54.156 --> 0:02:57.916 you guys, more electric guitar. It sort of reminds me 0:02:57.956 --> 0:03:00.356 that there's more rock and roll in country right now 0:03:00.396 --> 0:03:02.836 than there is on the pop charts. I think it 0:03:02.876 --> 0:03:06.436 has to do with the Americano music scene being such 0:03:06.476 --> 0:03:10.636 a wide open platform to know that spectrum of sound. 0:03:11.236 --> 0:03:14.196 Ever since that term was coined, it was I've thought 0:03:14.196 --> 0:03:16.156 of it as sort of the lint trap in the 0:03:16.996 --> 0:03:21.556 spin cycle of the country music dryer. You know, everything 0:03:21.596 --> 0:03:25.556 that isn't keeping up on the charts gets collected, and 0:03:25.756 --> 0:03:30.196 that includes Loretta Lynn, you know, some of the you know, 0:03:30.356 --> 0:03:33.476 mainstay performers, anybody who hasn't had a hit since nineteen 0:03:33.516 --> 0:03:38.036 nineties suddenly Americana and then also a lot of you know, 0:03:38.156 --> 0:03:40.996 new fresh faces or folks like us that have been 0:03:41.036 --> 0:03:45.116 around since before Americana, or like Gillian Welch who predates 0:03:45.116 --> 0:03:47.236 some Americana by ten years when it was called old 0:03:47.236 --> 0:03:51.556 country and you know, like Gillian and David, we always 0:03:51.636 --> 0:03:55.356 wanted to rock, even though we set a course with 0:03:55.396 --> 0:03:59.556 acoustic instruments, and that's the pathway Old Crow picked, was 0:03:59.596 --> 0:04:03.156 to be an acoustic rock band. But that doesn't prohibit 0:04:03.276 --> 0:04:06.276 us from plugging in every now and then. Well you 0:04:06.356 --> 0:04:08.356 do on this album. Can you tell me a little 0:04:08.356 --> 0:04:10.276 bit about Reasons to Run? I just thought it was 0:04:10.316 --> 0:04:13.516 such a beautiful song. Sure. Well. I started this band 0:04:13.556 --> 0:04:17.476 with my best friend and boy we had We've had 0:04:17.516 --> 0:04:20.316 a long road together. We met in the seventh grade 0:04:20.396 --> 0:04:24.236 in the Shennanoah Valley of Virginia and both found this 0:04:24.396 --> 0:04:28.236 calling to go to Nashville. Really, we wanted to go 0:04:28.276 --> 0:04:31.636 to Nashville when we were in the eighth grade. What 0:04:31.756 --> 0:04:33.956 we really wanted to do was to get somebody to 0:04:33.996 --> 0:04:36.836 go into the corner store and buy us some beer 0:04:36.916 --> 0:04:40.276 and some cigarettes, and then we'd go to Nashville. We 0:04:40.316 --> 0:04:43.236 wanted to hitchhike the whole way. We were writing songs together. 0:04:43.316 --> 0:04:45.836 This is my pal Critter few Quay and Critter has 0:04:45.876 --> 0:04:49.236 spent in and out, you know, fifteen twenty years in 0:04:49.236 --> 0:04:52.436 this twenty three year old band, but was always a 0:04:52.476 --> 0:04:54.436 little bit in, a little bit out because of the 0:04:54.436 --> 0:04:56.996 things that Kritter needed to do to you know, find 0:04:57.396 --> 0:05:01.716 stability and you know, solid ground on his own, which 0:05:01.756 --> 0:05:05.956 he's found beautifully but has found largely outside of this 0:05:06.076 --> 0:05:09.436 professional workscape. So what I mean the truth is that's 0:05:09.436 --> 0:05:12.316 a song about saying goodbye to your you know, your collaborator, 0:05:12.396 --> 0:05:17.356 your your sidekick. M It's also is it from his 0:05:17.476 --> 0:05:19.956 point of view? Because of course the lines are you know, 0:05:20.476 --> 0:05:24.076 running out of reasons to run, which is great great line. 0:05:24.356 --> 0:05:27.156 Is that something that comes from you as well that 0:05:27.356 --> 0:05:31.196 you were wondering how long can I keep doing this? Yeah? 0:05:31.236 --> 0:05:35.596 For me, I had this one chance encounter with Merrell 0:05:35.676 --> 0:05:39.276 Haggard and we did We did a tour together. You know. 0:05:39.276 --> 0:05:41.836 It was some most amazing tour. It kicked off in 0:05:41.956 --> 0:05:45.476 Sierra Vista, Arizona, which I had never been to before 0:05:45.876 --> 0:05:48.876 and probably won't ever go back to because it's hard 0:05:48.916 --> 0:05:52.036 to sell tickets without the hag In Sierra Vista, it's 0:05:52.076 --> 0:05:54.596 way down south, it's right by No Gallus, it's a 0:05:54.636 --> 0:05:58.036 military base. And when we we've opened up for him 0:05:58.036 --> 0:06:01.836 and the governor came out and he had this like 0:06:01.956 --> 0:06:05.796 sixty or one hundred pound bag onions which he presented 0:06:06.036 --> 0:06:09.556 to Merle Haggard and said, this is the new crop 0:06:09.596 --> 0:06:14.636 of the season, you know, and just that confluence of ag, 0:06:14.716 --> 0:06:20.396 the hag and the military, the proximity to Mexico, everything 0:06:20.436 --> 0:06:23.796 about it was just beautiful and so country music. You know. 0:06:23.956 --> 0:06:26.396 We'd met that night and he whispered in my ear 0:06:26.476 --> 0:06:29.156 it was so beautiful. And a couple of years later 0:06:29.196 --> 0:06:31.316 I heard a quote in which they asked him about, 0:06:31.636 --> 0:06:34.036 you know, reflecting on his career, and he said, the 0:06:34.116 --> 0:06:36.916 part I didn't realize was that I was signing up 0:06:36.916 --> 0:06:40.196 for a fifty year bus ride. And there's something about 0:06:40.236 --> 0:06:43.876 it that just gave me chills and hurt. You know, 0:06:43.876 --> 0:06:47.196 it hurts to think about that, because a fifty year 0:06:47.236 --> 0:06:50.916 bus ride sounds real lonesome. I know, it's what she 0:06:50.996 --> 0:06:54.276 gotta do to live this way and make shows and 0:06:54.356 --> 0:06:57.076 make the make the date and put on the gig 0:06:57.116 --> 0:07:00.636 and make everybody dance and cavort and clap and applaud 0:07:00.716 --> 0:07:04.556 and maybe make love afterwards. But the toll it takes 0:07:04.596 --> 0:07:08.516 on you, It hurts, and it'll run you down. What 0:07:08.676 --> 0:07:11.516 was it like being around Merle Haggard. Did he talk 0:07:11.556 --> 0:07:15.836 about his writing or songs or or was it all business? 0:07:15.236 --> 0:07:17.836 He's he gets the bag of onion, sings and songs 0:07:17.876 --> 0:07:22.556 and keeps going. A very soulful person, just like a 0:07:22.956 --> 0:07:26.556 mother Teresa kind of vibe, seemed to float, had a 0:07:26.756 --> 0:07:30.916 like a ben Kenobi kind of vibe. I just wanted 0:07:30.956 --> 0:07:33.356 to be close to him. The one time that we 0:07:33.436 --> 0:07:36.796 actually talked, I could feel he can't really close up 0:07:36.796 --> 0:07:40.596 to my ears, and I could feel his whiskers touch 0:07:40.756 --> 0:07:47.636 me so great and he whispered sounds good son, that's fabulous. 0:07:47.996 --> 0:07:49.636 I do want to talk mainly about the new album 0:07:49.676 --> 0:07:52.316 because it's a great album, but for people who don't 0:07:52.356 --> 0:07:56.356 know your whole history, there are some pretty amazing twists 0:07:56.356 --> 0:07:58.116 and turns along the way. But first of all, for 0:07:58.236 --> 0:08:00.356 both of you, did you grow up with music in 0:08:00.436 --> 0:08:02.636 your house? How did you come to this? I told 0:08:02.676 --> 0:08:04.516 a story the other day about how it is hitch 0:08:04.596 --> 0:08:07.876 hiking in Tallahassee and the bus picked me up and 0:08:07.916 --> 0:08:10.636 that's how I joined the band. And Mason Steele thinks 0:08:10.636 --> 0:08:14.076 that's how I got in the band, But ultimately I 0:08:14.836 --> 0:08:16.996 my real dad, which I didn't really grow up with. 0:08:17.356 --> 0:08:19.676 He was a drummer and so I remember him having 0:08:19.716 --> 0:08:21.956 this big red drum set around the house. So from 0:08:22.156 --> 0:08:25.196 early ages. I always wanted to play drums, couldn't afford 0:08:25.196 --> 0:08:28.596 one until I was fifteen, started gigging as soon as 0:08:28.596 --> 0:08:32.036 I graduated. Became a drummer for hire in my mid twenties, 0:08:32.316 --> 0:08:36.516 and randomly met Ketch backstage at the Rheman after one 0:08:36.516 --> 0:08:39.196 of the fabulous New Year's Eve shows, so a few 0:08:39.276 --> 0:08:44.236 years ago, and I thought, who is that drummer? I'd 0:08:44.236 --> 0:08:47.476 always wanted to have a real drummer in the band. 0:08:47.556 --> 0:08:50.476 We always kind of flirted with drummers, and there were 0:08:50.596 --> 0:08:54.356 enough percussionists in Old Crow because we're always been a 0:08:54.436 --> 0:08:57.516 multi instrumentalist band. Critter could play drums. Corey was a 0:08:57.516 --> 0:09:00.396 good drummer. But I didn't actually get together with Jerry 0:09:00.396 --> 0:09:02.516 because I thought we would he would join Old Crow. 0:09:02.996 --> 0:09:06.396 We got together talk about Ray Charles, Yeah, and about 0:09:06.396 --> 0:09:11.476 working on a project together, celebrating Charles and kind of 0:09:11.556 --> 0:09:15.316 unpacking the story and legacy and looking through the closet 0:09:15.756 --> 0:09:18.596 as we talked about the story of black country music 0:09:18.636 --> 0:09:22.756 in Nashville, kind of its wayward path and maybe that 0:09:22.796 --> 0:09:24.796 record will come out. One of the things that's happened 0:09:24.836 --> 0:09:29.356 since this conversation, which was four years ago, and ongoing 0:09:29.356 --> 0:09:33.996 conversations as we talked and met, you know, several times labels. 0:09:34.516 --> 0:09:36.756 One of the things that's come about is that finally 0:09:36.956 --> 0:09:40.276 the Country Music Hall of Fame has made Ray Charles 0:09:40.316 --> 0:09:46.156 a member. He wasn't a member. No, he wasn't, shocking right, yeah. Yeah. 0:09:46.196 --> 0:09:50.596 The the woman that accepted the award, she said that 0:09:50.756 --> 0:09:53.876 the modern sounds and country and Western was it's still 0:09:53.916 --> 0:09:56.756 to this day, the biggest crossover country record of all time. 0:09:56.956 --> 0:10:00.516 More people who didn't listen to country started to listen 0:10:00.516 --> 0:10:02.716 to the country because of that record than ever. I 0:10:02.716 --> 0:10:05.756 think it's amazing to think about and here we are, 0:10:05.796 --> 0:10:09.316 you know, like I don't know, fifty semi years later 0:10:09.396 --> 0:10:12.276 after that record, even more that you know, like now 0:10:12.636 --> 0:10:16.396 it was sixty sixty one, sixty one, Yeah, and your 0:10:16.476 --> 0:10:19.676 dad would what was he a jazz drummer? Was he 0:10:19.716 --> 0:10:22.636 a rock drum now? I honestly, I'm gonna venture to 0:10:22.676 --> 0:10:25.556 say r and b um, you know, like we've had 0:10:25.676 --> 0:10:28.716 some some contact over the years, but like we're you know, 0:10:28.876 --> 0:10:32.636 it's it's not what you would expect slash hope for 0:10:33.156 --> 0:10:35.676 so um. I grew up in a in a household. 0:10:35.756 --> 0:10:39.396 I grew up in a typical low income nineties household, 0:10:39.516 --> 0:10:42.556 you know, like I kind of listened everything. My friends 0:10:42.596 --> 0:10:45.596 played rock music and so they needed a drummer. When 0:10:45.596 --> 0:10:48.236 I got my drum set, couldn't wait. So I started 0:10:48.276 --> 0:10:51.436 off playing rock and punk rock and you know, anything 0:10:51.476 --> 0:10:53.516 that I could get my hands on at that time. 0:10:53.756 --> 0:10:56.436 And it wasn't until I think, um, I got in 0:10:56.516 --> 0:11:00.236 my like early twenties that I discovered led Zeppelin and 0:11:00.316 --> 0:11:02.916 Pink Floyd and all of that stuff. And then the 0:11:02.916 --> 0:11:05.636 early twenties was country because those were the gigs that 0:11:05.676 --> 0:11:07.956 were happening around Nashville. I decided that, like, if I 0:11:07.996 --> 0:11:11.236 wanted to be being blessed and privileged to be from 0:11:11.356 --> 0:11:14.636 Nashville and like wanted to be a member of this scene, 0:11:15.196 --> 0:11:17.316 I probably should learn how to play country. And actually 0:11:17.356 --> 0:11:19.156 the way that happened, I got a gig that I 0:11:19.236 --> 0:11:22.156 was forced to have to learn how to play country. Shuffles, 0:11:22.276 --> 0:11:24.996 trade beat, straight eights, you know, all the stuff that 0:11:25.236 --> 0:11:30.156 will require you to play, and it's deceptively difficult. It 0:11:30.196 --> 0:11:33.276 requires a lot of patients and listening. So your ears, 0:11:33.316 --> 0:11:36.956 I think, become your biggest assets. So I just dove in. 0:11:37.076 --> 0:11:39.796 I went into the history and in this past Sunday 0:11:39.836 --> 0:11:43.236 also Eddie Bears was inducted, who probably will go down 0:11:43.236 --> 0:11:45.396 as the greatest country drummer of all time. So you know, 0:11:45.436 --> 0:11:47.796 you have recordings from all these greats that you listen to, 0:11:48.356 --> 0:11:51.716 you do the homework, and but like whether you stay 0:11:51.716 --> 0:11:53.676 in the scene, you know, because I have a lot 0:11:53.716 --> 0:11:55.596 of friends that kind of jump in and out. So 0:11:56.036 --> 0:11:59.036 so I feel very fortunate to be in this band 0:11:59.116 --> 0:12:02.276 playing real country music. I don't know Eddie Bears, who 0:12:02.316 --> 0:12:05.036 did he play with, what was his style? So he's 0:12:05.076 --> 0:12:08.796 currently the drummer, one of the house drummers for the 0:12:09.396 --> 0:12:14.116 but he's a descendant of Larry London was the main guy, 0:12:14.116 --> 0:12:16.956 which was another major session drummer. I think it was 0:12:16.996 --> 0:12:18.756 like a third of the songs that were in the 0:12:18.796 --> 0:12:22.476 top forty one country and ninety he played drums on Wow, 0:12:22.676 --> 0:12:27.156 everything from Brooks and Done to Nce. I mean, you 0:12:27.236 --> 0:12:30.596 name it, any new or and by new I mean 0:12:30.676 --> 0:12:33.676 nineties you know, like country artist Garth, like all those guys, 0:12:33.756 --> 0:12:36.316 Like he's played on a track with just about everybody. 0:12:36.476 --> 0:12:38.356 So it would probably go down as the most recorded 0:12:38.396 --> 0:12:41.196 country drummer ball time. And I loved all that nineties 0:12:41.236 --> 0:12:43.876 country stuff too growing up in the Chendel Valley because 0:12:43.876 --> 0:12:46.956 that's all I heard. Yeah, country radio was the only thing. 0:12:46.956 --> 0:12:48.716 It was. Out of that or pop radio. There wasn't 0:12:48.796 --> 0:12:52.396 any anything else to listen to. And I love that 0:12:52.476 --> 0:12:55.516 kind of music, but it wasn't doing that much. It 0:12:55.556 --> 0:12:58.516 didn't make me want to go out and play those songs. Yeah, 0:12:58.516 --> 0:13:02.276 And for me, it was the discovery of the folk 0:13:02.356 --> 0:13:06.036 music of the nineteen sixties that just pulled me in. 0:13:06.196 --> 0:13:09.636 It was like a magnet to my soul man. And 0:13:09.956 --> 0:13:11.876 what was that? What was the first song you've heard 0:13:11.916 --> 0:13:15.956 that you can remember? It happened for me that my 0:13:16.116 --> 0:13:19.516 uncle went away to the Philippines to teach, and he 0:13:19.596 --> 0:13:22.716 left us all of the stuff. And among all of 0:13:22.716 --> 0:13:24.956 this stuff all these records. And I heard all these 0:13:24.996 --> 0:13:27.996 records when I was twelve, and I remember saying to 0:13:28.036 --> 0:13:30.396 my mom, Okay, it's time to take all my toys out. 0:13:31.036 --> 0:13:33.676 I found the records. Now I don't need toys anymore, 0:13:33.676 --> 0:13:38.436 and my mom cried like boxing them all up. The 0:13:38.556 --> 0:13:40.396 records were so great. It was a lot of motown, 0:13:40.516 --> 0:13:44.396 mostly motown. I heard so many great songs. Its twelve 0:13:44.476 --> 0:13:48.316 years old. But then I heard this record called Live 0:13:48.396 --> 0:13:51.916 at Newport Broadside, and that's when I learned to play 0:13:51.956 --> 0:13:54.476 my first song. I was twelve years old. I want 0:13:54.476 --> 0:13:59.836 to sing a little bit of it for you. In 0:13:59.956 --> 0:14:05.236 the state of Mississippi, many years ago, a boy of 0:14:05.316 --> 0:14:09.596 fourteen years got a taste of Southern law. He saw 0:14:09.636 --> 0:14:13.836 his friend of hanging. His color was his crime. The 0:14:13.916 --> 0:14:17.636 blood upon his jacket left a brand upon his mind. 0:14:18.596 --> 0:14:24.156 Too many martyrs and too many dead, too many lies, 0:14:24.396 --> 0:14:28.836 too many empty words were said, too many times for 0:14:29.076 --> 0:14:33.756 too many angry men. Oh let it never be again. 0:14:36.596 --> 0:14:40.276 It's called the ballot of Medgar Evers by phil Oakes. 0:14:40.956 --> 0:14:44.116 And I didn't know who Medgar Evers was, but I 0:14:44.196 --> 0:14:47.556 knew that he was worth marching for. Was it? That? 0:14:47.796 --> 0:14:50.836 Was it? The militancy of the song that you loved. 0:14:51.436 --> 0:14:54.676 It was a feeling that, like that civil rights mattered, 0:14:55.236 --> 0:14:58.676 and that for some reason it spoke to me. My 0:14:58.716 --> 0:15:02.356 first job was working in a barber shop. I shine shoes, 0:15:02.916 --> 0:15:05.036 and I would hear all the old men talk. They 0:15:05.036 --> 0:15:09.916 were all biggots, like really bigoted dudes, old men. You know. 0:15:09.956 --> 0:15:12.036 I lived in this in a town that had a 0:15:12.076 --> 0:15:15.556 sidewalk preacher. You know. It was nineteen eighty six and 0:15:15.636 --> 0:15:18.436 I was, you know, nine or something, and I'd walk 0:15:18.516 --> 0:15:21.716 to work and carry my little box, and I got 0:15:21.716 --> 0:15:25.156 a dollar a shine, and the big at Barber's would 0:15:25.156 --> 0:15:27.236 just talk all we had a We had the first 0:15:27.756 --> 0:15:32.116 African American governor of any state. His name was Douglas Wilder, great, 0:15:32.276 --> 0:15:36.316 great leader. And I felt like, well, that's what phil 0:15:36.316 --> 0:15:40.876 Oakes is singing about. Phil Oakes is making sure everybody 0:15:40.916 --> 0:15:43.436 knows that we have to stand up and make sure 0:15:43.476 --> 0:15:46.676 that equality gets hammered out, and you can only do 0:15:46.716 --> 0:15:49.756 it with a hammer. And that's when I heard Pete 0:15:49.796 --> 0:15:53.836 Seeger sing about having a hammer, and heard Pete sing 0:15:53.836 --> 0:15:56.556 about getting waist deep in the big muddy, and all 0:15:56.596 --> 0:16:00.116 of these songs all got me ready to hear Bob Dylan. 0:16:00.676 --> 0:16:04.756 I was primed. I had heard the other sounds, but 0:16:04.796 --> 0:16:08.796 then when I heard Bob, it was like finding, you know, 0:16:09.436 --> 0:16:13.356 Ecclesiastes for the first time. We'll dig into Bob Dylan's 0:16:13.396 --> 0:16:15.956 influence on catch C Corps, but first let's take a 0:16:15.996 --> 0:16:18.236 quick break and then we'll be back with more from 0:16:18.236 --> 0:16:21.836 bruce Headlam, Catch C Corp and Jerry Pentecost of Old 0:16:21.956 --> 0:16:29.116 Crow Medicine Show. We're back with more from bruce Headlam, 0:16:29.316 --> 0:16:33.196 Catch C Corps and Jerry Pentecost of Old Crow Medicine Show. 0:16:33.716 --> 0:16:36.076 Was your first instrument of the guitar or were you 0:16:36.116 --> 0:16:38.636 already playing the violin by then? No. I learned the 0:16:38.676 --> 0:16:42.556 fiddle last I learned. My first instrument was the juice harp. 0:16:42.596 --> 0:16:45.916 I learned it in the fourth grade for a school play, 0:16:46.356 --> 0:16:48.676 and I could do it right away. It was so 0:16:48.716 --> 0:16:50.796 I felt like kind of called into folk music. And 0:16:50.796 --> 0:16:53.676 then I learned the harmonica and then the guitar. I 0:16:53.756 --> 0:16:55.716 learned to play the banjo and I was fifteen, and 0:16:55.756 --> 0:16:58.476 that was a really important turn. That's when I was 0:16:58.556 --> 0:17:02.236 up at Exeter and I got a banjo teacher because 0:17:02.276 --> 0:17:05.636 I wanted to play like this guy, Happy Tround, as 0:17:05.676 --> 0:17:08.076 a New York banjo picker, played with Bob Dylan on 0:17:08.116 --> 0:17:10.156 the song call You Win o Nowhere. I thought that 0:17:10.196 --> 0:17:14.556 song was so great. Who we ride High Tomorrow us 0:17:14.596 --> 0:17:18.556 the day that my Bride's gonna come? Oo? Are you 0:17:18.676 --> 0:17:22.916 gonna fly down into the easy chair? Well, Happy Tromp 0:17:22.956 --> 0:17:25.676 plays it like a bluegrass player with a nice gentle role. 0:17:26.396 --> 0:17:30.636 And I petitioned the student affairs counsel to get me 0:17:30.676 --> 0:17:33.836 a banje teacher because they didn't have one at the 0:17:33.876 --> 0:17:38.356 world's most elite preparatory school in New England didn't have 0:17:38.436 --> 0:17:42.956 a banjo teacher. We got three Latin teachers. Oh yeah, 0:17:42.996 --> 0:17:47.276 I gonna learned Aramaic. But I had to petition to 0:17:47.396 --> 0:17:50.116 get me a damn banjet teacher. Well I did and 0:17:50.156 --> 0:17:52.716 they accepted it. But then they found me a teacher 0:17:53.076 --> 0:17:56.116 who played clawhammer. And that was the big fork in 0:17:56.156 --> 0:18:01.436 the road for me, was learning this primitive ultra American 0:18:01.556 --> 0:18:05.676 of the style that came from Africa. The part of 0:18:05.716 --> 0:18:09.956 the of the African instrument that is the American band 0:18:09.996 --> 0:18:13.516 show that is most from West Africa is when you 0:18:13.596 --> 0:18:16.996 play it like a drum, because that's what it is. 0:18:17.396 --> 0:18:20.716 It's the same thing as what Jerry's got over here, 0:18:20.996 --> 0:18:24.596 except instead of beating on it with stich, you play 0:18:24.596 --> 0:18:34.956 it with your finger. And the revolutionary thing about this 0:18:35.076 --> 0:18:37.716 is that it's both rhythm and melody. It's all about 0:18:37.716 --> 0:18:43.356 this drone string. Drone is always singing, no matter what, 0:18:46.556 --> 0:18:49.036 and it just it fills everything out. When I play 0:18:49.076 --> 0:18:50.996 the fiddle, it's the same way I always like to 0:18:51.076 --> 0:18:54.196 keep a drone string running. It's the same principle behind 0:18:54.236 --> 0:18:56.796 the bagpipes. A lot of folk musics use it. The 0:18:56.836 --> 0:19:00.836 hammer dulcimer, the ood. It's all about the drone. That's 0:19:00.876 --> 0:19:03.996 when you know that you're like calling in the herd. 0:19:05.116 --> 0:19:08.756 It's like out on the step kind of feelings. Now 0:19:09.156 --> 0:19:12.276 you were also when you were a teenager, you wrote 0:19:12.316 --> 0:19:14.716 your first big hit. We should just tell the story 0:19:14.796 --> 0:19:17.196 of Wagonwheel, because I think for a lot of people 0:19:18.116 --> 0:19:20.156 it's like, well the circle be unbroken or something. They 0:19:20.156 --> 0:19:22.676 didn't even know one person wrote it. It's got this 0:19:22.956 --> 0:19:25.996 great history, So just tell me a bit about that song. Well. Sure, 0:19:26.076 --> 0:19:30.756 So following my little chronology here, Once I was ready 0:19:30.796 --> 0:19:35.036 to discover Bob, I was ready to go deep, and 0:19:35.076 --> 0:19:37.956 I was like a Bob scholar in high school. I mean, 0:19:38.116 --> 0:19:41.316 my math teacher was flunking me. They were calling home 0:19:41.436 --> 0:19:44.436 to say, what's wrong with catch? If they busted me 0:19:44.476 --> 0:19:47.316 smoking pot. I was the only kid in the history 0:19:47.316 --> 0:19:49.276 of this high school that didn't get thrown out for 0:19:49.396 --> 0:19:53.556 burning grass, and thankfully I got caught with the kid 0:19:53.556 --> 0:19:56.516 with the highest GPA in the grade. But by the 0:19:56.556 --> 0:19:59.636 time I was about seventeen, I'd listened to every Bob 0:19:59.716 --> 0:20:02.876 Dylan record ever made, and then I was on the bootlegs, 0:20:03.116 --> 0:20:06.476 So that means I was about nineteen ninety four that fall, 0:20:07.236 --> 0:20:10.756 So Dylan had put out Probably World Gone Wrong at 0:20:10.796 --> 0:20:13.996 that point, which was the second of his nineties back 0:20:14.036 --> 0:20:18.116 to folk music albums which were just phenomenal. And it 0:20:18.196 --> 0:20:21.156 was maybe the year before Time out of Mind, which 0:20:21.236 --> 0:20:25.716 was a Grammy Award winning fabulous album that gave him 0:20:25.716 --> 0:20:28.356 a hit to make You Feel My Love, which Garth 0:20:28.436 --> 0:20:32.396 Brooks took to number one, and just a side story here, 0:20:32.636 --> 0:20:35.916 Wagon Wheel when Darius took it to number one, was 0:20:35.996 --> 0:20:39.156 the second time that Bob Dylan had a number one 0:20:39.196 --> 0:20:42.556 country hit as a songwriter and not as a vocalist. 0:20:43.116 --> 0:20:45.796 So tell me more. How did the song come about? Well, 0:20:45.836 --> 0:20:52.036 the aforementioned critter was over at the Virgin Megastore in London, 0:20:52.076 --> 0:20:55.596 England with his mom and dad, and you know, he 0:20:55.676 --> 0:20:59.356 had twenty pound note and he bought this bootleg off 0:21:00.036 --> 0:21:02.076 out in front of the Virgin Megastore where you could 0:21:02.076 --> 0:21:04.996 buy all the good shit. So he bought this thing 0:21:05.076 --> 0:21:09.036 called like the genuine Columbia bootleg series, not made by Columbia, 0:21:09.396 --> 0:21:12.036 and it had some really good stuff on it. Nineteen 0:21:12.116 --> 0:21:14.916 seventy two, I think Sam Peck and Paul directs this 0:21:14.956 --> 0:21:18.316 film called Pat Garrett and Billy the kid. I'm convinced 0:21:18.356 --> 0:21:21.196 that after he wrote rock Me Mama, he's like, nah, 0:21:21.276 --> 0:21:23.236 this is a very good And then he wrote Knocking 0:21:23.276 --> 0:21:25.876 on Heaven's Store. To me, the songs are sort of 0:21:25.996 --> 0:21:29.396 brother and sister. I think that Knocking on Heaven's Door is, 0:21:29.436 --> 0:21:33.236 of course a far superior tune. But he left this scrap. 0:21:33.676 --> 0:21:37.036 It's about you know, thirty six seconds or forty five seconds. 0:21:37.396 --> 0:21:39.436 And I heard it on this tape that critter sent 0:21:39.476 --> 0:21:41.436 me because he dubbed it, and he's sent it up 0:21:41.436 --> 0:21:44.556 to me in New Hampshire at my high school, and 0:21:44.596 --> 0:21:47.076 I Scott, I couldn't get that song out of my head. 0:21:47.356 --> 0:21:51.076 Rock Me Mama, like the wind and the rain. Oh. 0:21:51.116 --> 0:21:54.716 I loved it so much. And then, you know, one afternoon. 0:21:55.116 --> 0:21:57.436 This was like the third or fourth time I tried 0:21:57.476 --> 0:22:00.236 to rewrite a Bob Dylan's song. I remember when I 0:22:00.236 --> 0:22:02.436 was a kid, I rewrote The Lord's Prayer into a song. 0:22:02.516 --> 0:22:05.356 I was always taking something and turning it into a 0:22:05.436 --> 0:22:09.636 song or wiggling it around. I'd take leaves of grass. 0:22:09.956 --> 0:22:13.356 I mean, that thing is full of songs or anyway. 0:22:13.596 --> 0:22:16.196 So I got to Rock Me Mama. I wrote penn 0:22:16.316 --> 0:22:20.156 some quick autobiographical verses about getting out of New Hampshire 0:22:20.196 --> 0:22:23.076 and going down south where I felt I belonged. Now, 0:22:23.116 --> 0:22:24.876 I was gonna move to North Carolina. I was gonna 0:22:24.956 --> 0:22:27.756 join an old time string band, be a picker man. 0:22:27.996 --> 0:22:29.956 I was gonna hitchhike the whole way. And I put 0:22:29.996 --> 0:22:32.956 in every place name I could think of, even ones 0:22:32.996 --> 0:22:36.036 that I'd never been to and just imagined. And it's 0:22:36.076 --> 0:22:38.236 funny because I feel like I wrote myself a bus 0:22:38.276 --> 0:22:41.476 ticket back to merle in that fifty year bus ride. 0:22:41.916 --> 0:22:44.876 Like I was, you know, seventeen and just dreaming about 0:22:44.876 --> 0:22:46.596 all the places I want to go. I didn't dream 0:22:46.636 --> 0:22:49.596 that far. It took me not much longer to start 0:22:49.676 --> 0:22:53.036 dreaming about Manitoba. You know. That's when Old Crow started. 0:22:53.596 --> 0:22:55.796 Old Crow was the seed of a dream about the 0:22:55.836 --> 0:22:58.836 Canadian prairie provinces. I was like, what is it gonna 0:22:58.836 --> 0:23:02.556 take to get way out there? Man? But anyway, I 0:23:02.596 --> 0:23:05.476 wrote this song real quick, and then I sang it 0:23:05.516 --> 0:23:08.236 for my friends. I was like, Wow, that thing is good, 0:23:08.756 --> 0:23:12.156