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Speaker 1: Pushkin. Hey everyone, today we're featuring a chat with two

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Speaker 1: members of the Nashville based string band Old Crow Medicine Show.

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Speaker 1: We've got lead singer Catch scor and drummer Jerry Pentecost.

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Speaker 1: Since Foreman in nineteen ninety eight, Old Crow has helped

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Speaker 1: to preserve folk and blues songs that often pre date

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Speaker 1: even World War Two. Of course, in the best of

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Speaker 1: the folk tradition, they put their own spin on those

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Speaker 1: songs and also have written a number of their own tunes.

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Speaker 1: Old Crow's most successful song to date, the platinum certified

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Speaker 1: wagon Wheel, was written around a Bob Dylan course catch

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Speaker 1: Herd on an Old Dylan bootleg. In twenty thirteen, Darius

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Speaker 1: Rucker of Hooting the Blowfish covered that song, making it

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Speaker 1: a contemporary country music hit and even earned a Grammy.

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Speaker 1: On today's episode, Bruce Sellem talks to Catch Scorps and

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Speaker 1: Jerry Pentecost about Old Crow's latest album, Paint This Town.

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Speaker 1: They share how the raising awareness around the major contributions

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Speaker 1: black musicians like Ray Charles and d Ford Bailey have

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Speaker 1: made to country music, and then Ketch recalls Old Crow's

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Speaker 1: early days when they went through what he calls hill

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Speaker 1: Billy Bootcamp learning how to make whiskey farm tobacco and

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Speaker 1: also shoot groundhogs. This is broken record liner notes for

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Speaker 1: the digital Age. I'm justin Richmond. Here's Bruce Adlam with

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Speaker 1: Ketch C Corps and Jerry Pentecost of Old Crow Medicine Show.

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Speaker 1: So we're welcoming one third of the Old Crow Medicine Show,

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Speaker 1: catch S Corp and Jerry Pentecost. Welcome, Thank you so

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Speaker 1: much for doing this, Thanks for having us. It's wonderful

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Speaker 1: to be here. You have a new album out on

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Speaker 1: Ato Records, Is that right? That's right, and it's called

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Speaker 1: Paint This Town and it is a very ambitious, sprawling

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Speaker 1: album with a lot of different styles. And I'm much

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Speaker 1: heavier sound even than your last album, which people said

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Speaker 1: had a very heavy sound. Can you tell me just

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Speaker 1: a little bit about making this record, how it all

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Speaker 1: came together? Well, sure, thanks for that introduction of it.

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Speaker 1: I like anything that sounds ambitious sounds cool to me,

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Speaker 1: especially here in New York City. Well, so, yeah, we're

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Speaker 1: just trying to keep up with the times. Man. There's

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Speaker 1: a lot to sing about and talk about in times

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Speaker 1: like these, and this was the record that we made

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Speaker 1: in face masks from a six foot distance in an

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Speaker 1: unvaccinated space because they weren't available yet, just waiting for

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Speaker 1: the final green light to go down to the Walmart

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Speaker 1: and Franklin and get our first shot. I said before,

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Speaker 1: it is very ambitious. It's a very rocking record for

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Speaker 1: you guys, more electric guitar. It sort of reminds me

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Speaker 1: that there's more rock and roll in country right now

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Speaker 1: than there is on the pop charts. I think it

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Speaker 1: has to do with the Americano music scene being such

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Speaker 1: a wide open platform to know that spectrum of sound.

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Speaker 1: Ever since that term was coined, it was I've thought

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Speaker 1: of it as sort of the lint trap in the

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Speaker 1: spin cycle of the country music dryer. You know, everything

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Speaker 1: that isn't keeping up on the charts gets collected, and

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Speaker 1: that includes Loretta Lynn, you know, some of the you know,

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Speaker 1: mainstay performers, anybody who hasn't had a hit since nineteen

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Speaker 1: nineties suddenly Americana and then also a lot of you know,

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Speaker 1: new fresh faces or folks like us that have been

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Speaker 1: around since before Americana, or like Gillian Welch who predates

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Speaker 1: some Americana by ten years when it was called old

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Speaker 1: country and you know, like Gillian and David, we always

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Speaker 1: wanted to rock, even though we set a course with

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Speaker 1: acoustic instruments, and that's the pathway Old Crow picked, was

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Speaker 1: to be an acoustic rock band. But that doesn't prohibit

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Speaker 1: us from plugging in every now and then. Well you

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Speaker 1: do on this album. Can you tell me a little

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Speaker 1: bit about Reasons to Run? I just thought it was

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Speaker 1: such a beautiful song. Sure. Well. I started this band

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Speaker 1: with my best friend and boy we had We've had

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Speaker 1: a long road together. We met in the seventh grade

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Speaker 1: in the Shennanoah Valley of Virginia and both found this

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Speaker 1: calling to go to Nashville. Really, we wanted to go

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Speaker 1: to Nashville when we were in the eighth grade. What

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Speaker 1: we really wanted to do was to get somebody to

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Speaker 1: go into the corner store and buy us some beer

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Speaker 1: and some cigarettes, and then we'd go to Nashville. We

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Speaker 1: wanted to hitchhike the whole way. We were writing songs together.

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Speaker 1: This is my pal Critter few Quay and Critter has

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Speaker 1: spent in and out, you know, fifteen twenty years in

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Speaker 1: this twenty three year old band, but was always a

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Speaker 1: little bit in, a little bit out because of the

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Speaker 1: things that Kritter needed to do to you know, find

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Speaker 1: stability and you know, solid ground on his own, which

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Speaker 1: he's found beautifully but has found largely outside of this

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Speaker 1: professional workscape. So what I mean the truth is that's

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Speaker 1: a song about saying goodbye to your you know, your collaborator,

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Speaker 1: your your sidekick. M It's also is it from his

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Speaker 1: point of view? Because of course the lines are you know,

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Speaker 1: running out of reasons to run, which is great great line.

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Speaker 1: Is that something that comes from you as well that

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Speaker 1: you were wondering how long can I keep doing this? Yeah?

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Speaker 1: For me, I had this one chance encounter with Merrell

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Speaker 1: Haggard and we did We did a tour together. You know.

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Speaker 1: It was some most amazing tour. It kicked off in

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Speaker 1: Sierra Vista, Arizona, which I had never been to before

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Speaker 1: and probably won't ever go back to because it's hard

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Speaker 1: to sell tickets without the hag In Sierra Vista, it's

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Speaker 1: way down south, it's right by No Gallus, it's a

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Speaker 1: military base. And when we we've opened up for him

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Speaker 1: and the governor came out and he had this like

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Speaker 1: sixty or one hundred pound bag onions which he presented

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Speaker 1: to Merle Haggard and said, this is the new crop

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Speaker 1: of the season, you know, and just that confluence of ag,

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Speaker 1: the hag and the military, the proximity to Mexico, everything

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Speaker 1: about it was just beautiful and so country music. You know.

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Speaker 1: We'd met that night and he whispered in my ear

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Speaker 1: it was so beautiful. And a couple of years later

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Speaker 1: I heard a quote in which they asked him about,

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Speaker 1: you know, reflecting on his career, and he said, the

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Speaker 1: part I didn't realize was that I was signing up

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Speaker 1: for a fifty year bus ride. And there's something about

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Speaker 1: it that just gave me chills and hurt. You know,

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Speaker 1: it hurts to think about that, because a fifty year

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Speaker 1: bus ride sounds real lonesome. I know, it's what she

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Speaker 1: gotta do to live this way and make shows and

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Speaker 1: make the make the date and put on the gig

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Speaker 1: and make everybody dance and cavort and clap and applaud

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Speaker 1: and maybe make love afterwards. But the toll it takes

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Speaker 1: on you, It hurts, and it'll run you down. What

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Speaker 1: was it like being around Merle Haggard. Did he talk

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Speaker 1: about his writing or songs or or was it all business?

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Speaker 1: He's he gets the bag of onion, sings and songs

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Speaker 1: and keeps going. A very soulful person, just like a

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Speaker 1: mother Teresa kind of vibe, seemed to float, had a

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Speaker 1: like a ben Kenobi kind of vibe. I just wanted

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Speaker 1: to be close to him. The one time that we

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Speaker 1: actually talked, I could feel he can't really close up

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Speaker 1: to my ears, and I could feel his whiskers touch

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Speaker 1: me so great and he whispered sounds good son, that's fabulous.

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Speaker 1: I do want to talk mainly about the new album

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Speaker 1: because it's a great album, but for people who don't

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Speaker 1: know your whole history, there are some pretty amazing twists

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Speaker 1: and turns along the way. But first of all, for

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Speaker 1: both of you, did you grow up with music in

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Speaker 1: your house? How did you come to this? I told

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Speaker 1: a story the other day about how it is hitch

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Speaker 1: hiking in Tallahassee and the bus picked me up and

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Speaker 1: that's how I joined the band. And Mason Steele thinks

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Speaker 1: that's how I got in the band, But ultimately I

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Speaker 1: my real dad, which I didn't really grow up with.

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Speaker 1: He was a drummer and so I remember him having

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Speaker 1: this big red drum set around the house. So from

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Speaker 1: early ages. I always wanted to play drums, couldn't afford

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Speaker 1: one until I was fifteen, started gigging as soon as

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Speaker 1: I graduated. Became a drummer for hire in my mid twenties,

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Speaker 1: and randomly met Ketch backstage at the Rheman after one

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Speaker 1: of the fabulous New Year's Eve shows, so a few

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Speaker 1: years ago, and I thought, who is that drummer? I'd

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Speaker 1: always wanted to have a real drummer in the band.

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Speaker 1: We always kind of flirted with drummers, and there were

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Speaker 1: enough percussionists in Old Crow because we're always been a

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Speaker 1: multi instrumentalist band. Critter could play drums. Corey was a

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Speaker 1: good drummer. But I didn't actually get together with Jerry

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Speaker 1: because I thought we would he would join Old Crow.

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Speaker 1: We got together talk about Ray Charles, Yeah, and about

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Speaker 1: working on a project together, celebrating Charles and kind of

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Speaker 1: unpacking the story and legacy and looking through the closet

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Speaker 1: as we talked about the story of black country music

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Speaker 1: in Nashville, kind of its wayward path and maybe that

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Speaker 1: record will come out. One of the things that's happened

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Speaker 1: since this conversation, which was four years ago, and ongoing

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Speaker 1: conversations as we talked and met, you know, several times labels.

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Speaker 1: One of the things that's come about is that finally

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Speaker 1: the Country Music Hall of Fame has made Ray Charles

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Speaker 1: a member. He wasn't a member. No, he wasn't, shocking right, yeah. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: The the woman that accepted the award, she said that

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Speaker 1: the modern sounds and country and Western was it's still

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Speaker 1: to this day, the biggest crossover country record of all time.

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Speaker 1: More people who didn't listen to country started to listen

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Speaker 1: to the country because of that record than ever. I

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Speaker 1: think it's amazing to think about and here we are,

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Speaker 1: you know, like I don't know, fifty semi years later

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Speaker 1: after that record, even more that you know, like now

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Speaker 1: it was sixty sixty one, sixty one, Yeah, and your

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Speaker 1: dad would what was he a jazz drummer? Was he

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Speaker 1: a rock drum now? I honestly, I'm gonna venture to

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Speaker 1: say r and b um, you know, like we've had

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Speaker 1: some some contact over the years, but like we're you know,

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Speaker 1: it's it's not what you would expect slash hope for

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Speaker 1: so um. I grew up in a in a household.

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Speaker 1: I grew up in a typical low income nineties household,

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Speaker 1: you know, like I kind of listened everything. My friends

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Speaker 1: played rock music and so they needed a drummer. When

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Speaker 1: I got my drum set, couldn't wait. So I started

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Speaker 1: off playing rock and punk rock and you know, anything

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Speaker 1: that I could get my hands on at that time.

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Speaker 1: And it wasn't until I think, um, I got in

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Speaker 1: my like early twenties that I discovered led Zeppelin and

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Speaker 1: Pink Floyd and all of that stuff. And then the

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Speaker 1: early twenties was country because those were the gigs that

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Speaker 1: were happening around Nashville. I decided that, like, if I

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Speaker 1: wanted to be being blessed and privileged to be from

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Speaker 1: Nashville and like wanted to be a member of this scene,

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Speaker 1: I probably should learn how to play country. And actually

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Speaker 1: the way that happened, I got a gig that I

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Speaker 1: was forced to have to learn how to play country. Shuffles,

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Speaker 1: trade beat, straight eights, you know, all the stuff that

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Speaker 1: will require you to play, and it's deceptively difficult. It

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Speaker 1: requires a lot of patients and listening. So your ears,

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Speaker 1: I think, become your biggest assets. So I just dove in.

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Speaker 1: I went into the history and in this past Sunday

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Speaker 1: also Eddie Bears was inducted, who probably will go down

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Speaker 1: as the greatest country drummer of all time. So you know,

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Speaker 1: you have recordings from all these greats that you listen to,

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Speaker 1: you do the homework, and but like whether you stay

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Speaker 1: in the scene, you know, because I have a lot

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Speaker 1: of friends that kind of jump in and out. So

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Speaker 1: so I feel very fortunate to be in this band

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Speaker 1: playing real country music. I don't know Eddie Bears, who

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Speaker 1: did he play with, what was his style? So he's

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Speaker 1: currently the drummer, one of the house drummers for the

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Speaker 1: but he's a descendant of Larry London was the main guy,

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Speaker 1: which was another major session drummer. I think it was

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Speaker 1: like a third of the songs that were in the

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Speaker 1: top forty one country and ninety he played drums on Wow,

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Speaker 1: everything from Brooks and Done to Nce. I mean, you

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Speaker 1: name it, any new or and by new I mean

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Speaker 1: nineties you know, like country artist Garth, like all those guys,

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Speaker 1: Like he's played on a track with just about everybody.

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Speaker 1: So it would probably go down as the most recorded

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Speaker 1: country drummer ball time. And I loved all that nineties

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Speaker 1: country stuff too growing up in the Chendel Valley because

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Speaker 1: that's all I heard. Yeah, country radio was the only thing.

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Speaker 1: It was. Out of that or pop radio. There wasn't

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Speaker 1: any anything else to listen to. And I love that

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Speaker 1: kind of music, but it wasn't doing that much. It

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Speaker 1: didn't make me want to go out and play those songs. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: And for me, it was the discovery of the folk

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Speaker 1: music of the nineteen sixties that just pulled me in.

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Speaker 1: It was like a magnet to my soul man. And

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Speaker 1: what was that? What was the first song you've heard

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Speaker 1: that you can remember? It happened for me that my

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Speaker 1: uncle went away to the Philippines to teach, and he

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Speaker 1: left us all of the stuff. And among all of

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Speaker 1: this stuff all these records. And I heard all these

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Speaker 1: records when I was twelve, and I remember saying to

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Speaker 1: my mom, Okay, it's time to take all my toys out.

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Speaker 1: I found the records. Now I don't need toys anymore,

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Speaker 1: and my mom cried like boxing them all up. The

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Speaker 1: records were so great. It was a lot of motown,

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Speaker 1: mostly motown. I heard so many great songs. Its twelve

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Speaker 1: years old. But then I heard this record called Live

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Speaker 1: at Newport Broadside, and that's when I learned to play

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Speaker 1: my first song. I was twelve years old. I want

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Speaker 1: to sing a little bit of it for you. In

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Speaker 1: the state of Mississippi, many years ago, a boy of

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Speaker 1: fourteen years got a taste of Southern law. He saw

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Speaker 1: his friend of hanging. His color was his crime. The

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Speaker 1: blood upon his jacket left a brand upon his mind.

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Speaker 1: Too many martyrs and too many dead, too many lies,

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Speaker 1: too many empty words were said, too many times for

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Speaker 1: too many angry men. Oh let it never be again.

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Speaker 1: It's called the ballot of Medgar Evers by phil Oakes.

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Speaker 1: And I didn't know who Medgar Evers was, but I

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Speaker 1: knew that he was worth marching for. Was it? That?

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Speaker 1: Was it? The militancy of the song that you loved.

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Speaker 1: It was a feeling that, like that civil rights mattered,

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Speaker 1: and that for some reason it spoke to me. My

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Speaker 1: first job was working in a barber shop. I shine shoes,

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Speaker 1: and I would hear all the old men talk. They

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Speaker 1: were all biggots, like really bigoted dudes, old men. You know.

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Speaker 1: I lived in this in a town that had a

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Speaker 1: sidewalk preacher. You know. It was nineteen eighty six and

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Speaker 1: I was, you know, nine or something, and I'd walk

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Speaker 1: to work and carry my little box, and I got

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Speaker 1: a dollar a shine, and the big at Barber's would

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Speaker 1: just talk all we had a We had the first

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Speaker 1: African American governor of any state. His name was Douglas Wilder, great,

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Speaker 1: great leader. And I felt like, well, that's what phil

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Speaker 1: Oakes is singing about. Phil Oakes is making sure everybody

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Speaker 1: knows that we have to stand up and make sure

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Speaker 1: that equality gets hammered out, and you can only do

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Speaker 1: it with a hammer. And that's when I heard Pete

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Speaker 1: Seeger sing about having a hammer, and heard Pete sing

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Speaker 1: about getting waist deep in the big muddy, and all

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Speaker 1: of these songs all got me ready to hear Bob Dylan.

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Speaker 1: I was primed. I had heard the other sounds, but

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Speaker 1: then when I heard Bob, it was like finding, you know,

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Speaker 1: Ecclesiastes for the first time. We'll dig into Bob Dylan's

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Speaker 1: influence on catch C Corps, but first let's take a

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Speaker 1: quick break and then we'll be back with more from

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Speaker 1: bruce Headlam, Catch C Corp and Jerry Pentecost of Old

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Speaker 1: Crow Medicine Show. We're back with more from bruce Headlam,

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Speaker 1: Catch C Corps and Jerry Pentecost of Old Crow Medicine Show.

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Speaker 1: Was your first instrument of the guitar or were you

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Speaker 1: already playing the violin by then? No. I learned the

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Speaker 1: fiddle last I learned. My first instrument was the juice harp.

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Speaker 1: I learned it in the fourth grade for a school play,

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Speaker 1: and I could do it right away. It was so

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Speaker 1: I felt like kind of called into folk music. And

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Speaker 1: then I learned the harmonica and then the guitar. I

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Speaker 1: learned to play the banjo and I was fifteen, and

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Speaker 1: that was a really important turn. That's when I was

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Speaker 1: up at Exeter and I got a banjo teacher because

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Speaker 1: I wanted to play like this guy, Happy Tround, as

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Speaker 1: a New York banjo picker, played with Bob Dylan on

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Speaker 1: the song call You Win o Nowhere. I thought that

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Speaker 1: song was so great. Who we ride High Tomorrow us

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Speaker 1: the day that my Bride's gonna come? Oo? Are you

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Speaker 1: gonna fly down into the easy chair? Well, Happy Tromp

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Speaker 1: plays it like a bluegrass player with a nice gentle role.

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Speaker 1: And I petitioned the student affairs counsel to get me

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Speaker 1: a banje teacher because they didn't have one at the

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Speaker 1: world's most elite preparatory school in New England didn't have

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Speaker 1: a banjo teacher. We got three Latin teachers. Oh yeah,

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Speaker 1: I gonna learned Aramaic. But I had to petition to

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Speaker 1: get me a damn banjet teacher. Well I did and

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Speaker 1: they accepted it. But then they found me a teacher

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Speaker 1: who played clawhammer. And that was the big fork in

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Speaker 1: the road for me, was learning this primitive ultra American

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Speaker 1: of the style that came from Africa. The part of

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Speaker 1: the of the African instrument that is the American band

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Speaker 1: show that is most from West Africa is when you

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Speaker 1: play it like a drum, because that's what it is.

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Speaker 1: It's the same thing as what Jerry's got over here,

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Speaker 1: except instead of beating on it with stich, you play

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Speaker 1: it with your finger. And the revolutionary thing about this

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Speaker 1: is that it's both rhythm and melody. It's all about

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Speaker 1: this drone string. Drone is always singing, no matter what,

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Speaker 1: and it just it fills everything out. When I play

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Speaker 1: the fiddle, it's the same way I always like to

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Speaker 1: keep a drone string running. It's the same principle behind

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Speaker 1: the bagpipes. A lot of folk musics use it. The

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Speaker 1: hammer dulcimer, the ood. It's all about the drone. That's

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Speaker 1: when you know that you're like calling in the herd.

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Speaker 1: It's like out on the step kind of feelings. Now

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00:19:09,156 --> 00:19:12,276
Speaker 1: you were also when you were a teenager, you wrote

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Speaker 1: your first big hit. We should just tell the story

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Speaker 1: of Wagonwheel, because I think for a lot of people

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Speaker 1: it's like, well the circle be unbroken or something. They

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Speaker 1: didn't even know one person wrote it. It's got this

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Speaker 1: great history, So just tell me a bit about that song. Well. Sure,

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Speaker 1: So following my little chronology here, Once I was ready

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Speaker 1: to discover Bob, I was ready to go deep, and

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Speaker 1: I was like a Bob scholar in high school. I mean,

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Speaker 1: my math teacher was flunking me. They were calling home

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Speaker 1: to say, what's wrong with catch? If they busted me

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Speaker 1: smoking pot. I was the only kid in the history

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Speaker 1: of this high school that didn't get thrown out for

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Speaker 1: burning grass, and thankfully I got caught with the kid

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Speaker 1: with the highest GPA in the grade. But by the

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Speaker 1: time I was about seventeen, I'd listened to every Bob

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Speaker 1: Dylan record ever made, and then I was on the bootlegs,

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Speaker 1: So that means I was about nineteen ninety four that fall,

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00:20:07,236 --> 00:20:10,756
Speaker 1: So Dylan had put out Probably World Gone Wrong at

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Speaker 1: that point, which was the second of his nineties back

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Speaker 1: to folk music albums which were just phenomenal. And it

347
00:20:18,196 --> 00:20:21,156
Speaker 1: was maybe the year before Time out of Mind, which

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00:20:21,236 --> 00:20:25,716
Speaker 1: was a Grammy Award winning fabulous album that gave him

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Speaker 1: a hit to make You Feel My Love, which Garth

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Speaker 1: Brooks took to number one, and just a side story here,

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Speaker 1: Wagon Wheel when Darius took it to number one, was

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Speaker 1: the second time that Bob Dylan had a number one

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Speaker 1: country hit as a songwriter and not as a vocalist.

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Speaker 1: So tell me more. How did the song come about? Well,

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Speaker 1: the aforementioned critter was over at the Virgin Megastore in London,

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00:20:52,076 --> 00:20:55,596
Speaker 1: England with his mom and dad, and you know, he

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Speaker 1: had twenty pound note and he bought this bootleg off

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Speaker 1: out in front of the Virgin Megastore where you could

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Speaker 1: buy all the good shit. So he bought this thing

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00:21:05,076 --> 00:21:09,036
Speaker 1: called like the genuine Columbia bootleg series, not made by Columbia,

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Speaker 1: and it had some really good stuff on it. Nineteen

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Speaker 1: seventy two, I think Sam Peck and Paul directs this

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Speaker 1: film called Pat Garrett and Billy the kid. I'm convinced

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Speaker 1: that after he wrote rock Me Mama, he's like, nah,

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Speaker 1: this is a very good And then he wrote Knocking

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Speaker 1: on Heaven's Store. To me, the songs are sort of

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Speaker 1: brother and sister. I think that Knocking on Heaven's Door is,

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Speaker 1: of course a far superior tune. But he left this scrap.

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Speaker 1: It's about you know, thirty six seconds or forty five seconds.

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Speaker 1: And I heard it on this tape that critter sent

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Speaker 1: me because he dubbed it, and he's sent it up

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Speaker 1: to me in New Hampshire at my high school, and

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Speaker 1: I Scott, I couldn't get that song out of my head.

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Speaker 1: Rock Me Mama, like the wind and the rain. Oh.

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Speaker 1: I loved it so much. And then, you know, one afternoon.

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Speaker 1: This was like the third or fourth time I tried

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Speaker 1: to rewrite a Bob Dylan's song. I remember when I

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Speaker 1: was a kid, I rewrote The Lord's Prayer into a song.

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00:22:02,516 --> 00:22:05,356
Speaker 1: I was always taking something and turning it into a

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Speaker 1: song or wiggling it around. I'd take leaves of grass.

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00:22:09,956 --> 00:22:13,356
Speaker 1: I mean, that thing is full of songs or anyway.

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Speaker 1: So I got to Rock Me Mama. I wrote penn

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Speaker 1: some quick autobiographical verses about getting out of New Hampshire

384
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Speaker 1: and going down south where I felt I belonged. Now,

385
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Speaker 1: I was gonna move to North Carolina. I was gonna

386
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Speaker 1: join an old time string band, be a picker man.

387
00:22:27,996 --> 00:22:29,956
Speaker 1: I was gonna hitchhike the whole way. And I put

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Speaker 1: in every place name I could think of, even ones

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Speaker 1: that I'd never been to and just imagined. And it's

390
00:22:36,076 --> 00:22:38,236
Speaker 1: funny because I feel like I wrote myself a bus

391
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Speaker 1: ticket back to merle in that fifty year bus ride.

392
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Speaker 1: Like I was, you know, seventeen and just dreaming about

393
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Speaker 1: all the places I want to go. I didn't dream

394
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Speaker 1: that far. It took me not much longer to start

395
00:22:49,676 --> 00:22:53,036
Speaker 1: dreaming about Manitoba. You know. That's when Old Crow started.

396
00:22:53,596 --> 00:22:55,796
Speaker 1: Old Crow was the seed of a dream about the

397
00:22:55,836 --> 00:22:58,836
Speaker 1: Canadian prairie provinces. I was like, what is it gonna

398
00:22:58,836 --> 00:23:02,556
Speaker 1: take to get way out there? Man? But anyway, I

399
00:23:02,596 --> 00:23:05,476
Speaker 1: wrote this song real quick, and then I sang it

400
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Speaker 1: for my friends. I was like, Wow, that thing is good,

401
00:23:08,756 --> 00:23:12,156
Speaker 1: and we called it rock Me Mama, and I played

402
00:23:12,156 --> 00:23:15,636
Speaker 1: it everywhere I went. Was that on your first album? Then? Well?

403
00:23:15,676 --> 00:23:19,396
Speaker 1: Then then Old Crows started and we moved to Nashville,

404
00:23:19,516 --> 00:23:22,916
Speaker 1: and we had then we had a manager, and it

405
00:23:22,996 --> 00:23:26,556
Speaker 1: was time to select our tunes and we played you

406
00:23:26,596 --> 00:23:29,996
Speaker 1: know what we still called rock Me Mama. When we

407
00:23:29,996 --> 00:23:33,276
Speaker 1: were living up in East Tennessee, not far from Johnson City,

408
00:23:33,316 --> 00:23:35,996
Speaker 1: we had this kind of pill popping friend that was

409
00:23:36,036 --> 00:23:38,876
Speaker 1: a Vietnam Vet who had the tobacco allotment behind the

410
00:23:38,916 --> 00:23:41,796
Speaker 1: house we were squatting in. It didn't have running water

411
00:23:42,356 --> 00:23:44,956
Speaker 1: or electric or anything. And he came down. He's like,

412
00:23:44,996 --> 00:23:47,836
Speaker 1: what are Ian's doing here? He's sort of befriended us,

413
00:23:47,876 --> 00:23:50,356
Speaker 1: and you know, I was sort of looking for a

414
00:23:50,436 --> 00:23:53,756
Speaker 1: party himself. One day, we were doing a show in Hickory,

415
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Speaker 1: North Carolina, and we played rock Me Mama like we

416
00:23:56,596 --> 00:23:59,436
Speaker 1: all like we often did, and afterwards he came up

417
00:23:59,476 --> 00:24:01,716
Speaker 1: to me. He's real high in the parking lot and

418
00:24:01,716 --> 00:24:04,276
Speaker 1: he said, you need to play that wagon we about

419
00:24:04,316 --> 00:24:06,836
Speaker 1: every where you go. And it's the first time I'd

420
00:24:06,876 --> 00:24:09,036
Speaker 1: ever heard it called that, and I was like, wow,

421
00:24:09,276 --> 00:24:11,036
Speaker 1: that's got a ring to it. But at first I

422
00:24:11,116 --> 00:24:13,836
Speaker 1: was like it felt a little weird. It was like two,

423
00:24:14,276 --> 00:24:18,356
Speaker 1: it felt like corny, or really, would anybody like a

424
00:24:18,436 --> 00:24:22,236
Speaker 1: song called wagon Wheel? It's called rock Me Mama? But anyway,

425
00:24:22,276 --> 00:24:25,236
Speaker 1: by the time we got to Nashville, this old Hillbilly

426
00:24:25,276 --> 00:24:29,716
Speaker 1: had definitely renamed it. So we played it for the label,

427
00:24:29,876 --> 00:24:32,356
Speaker 1: and you know, they wanted to cut it. But then

428
00:24:32,356 --> 00:24:35,556
Speaker 1: we had to get it published. So we got really

429
00:24:35,596 --> 00:24:38,756
Speaker 1: lucky because we had this publishing administrator who knew how

430
00:24:38,796 --> 00:24:41,956
Speaker 1: to get a hold of Bob's manager, and Bob's manager

431
00:24:41,996 --> 00:24:45,476
Speaker 1: said wrote back to us a few weeks later saying, Okay,

432
00:24:45,516 --> 00:24:47,996
Speaker 1: Bob approves it. He's going to call it a fifty

433
00:24:48,076 --> 00:24:51,996
Speaker 1: fifty s corp Dylan split. Oh, but he wants you

434
00:24:52,036 --> 00:24:55,236
Speaker 1: to know that Dylan didn't write it, and we're like what,

435
00:24:55,756 --> 00:24:58,116
Speaker 1: and then he says, Dylan says that he got it

436
00:24:58,156 --> 00:25:01,076
Speaker 1: from Arthur crowd Up. Well, I read in the liner

437
00:25:01,156 --> 00:25:03,676
Speaker 1: notes of this song that Bob said he got rock

438
00:25:03,756 --> 00:25:06,836
Speaker 1: Me Mama from called rock Me Baby, which is like

439
00:25:06,996 --> 00:25:10,876
Speaker 1: rock man Baby. There really there's nothing about the wind

440
00:25:10,876 --> 00:25:13,036
Speaker 1: and the rain or a southbound train, but that's what

441
00:25:13,076 --> 00:25:15,836
Speaker 1: Bob said, so I took it for his word. But

442
00:25:15,956 --> 00:25:19,836
Speaker 1: in the liner notes it says, oh, and Arthur Crudup

443
00:25:20,516 --> 00:25:23,076
Speaker 1: wishes to attribute his recording rock Me Baby to the

444
00:25:23,196 --> 00:25:26,156
Speaker 1: late great Big Bill Brunci, So that would have been

445
00:25:26,236 --> 00:25:29,476
Speaker 1: Chicago in the twenties, Big Boy would have been Memphis

446
00:25:29,476 --> 00:25:31,636
Speaker 1: in the fifties. So if you believe the story that

447
00:25:31,716 --> 00:25:36,036
Speaker 1: Bob spun from Big Bill to Big Boy to Bob

448
00:25:36,396 --> 00:25:40,756
Speaker 1: to me an Old Crow to Darius, then in that

449
00:25:40,956 --> 00:25:45,516
Speaker 1: year long century gestation, the song sees the shared authorship

450
00:25:45,596 --> 00:25:49,436
Speaker 1: of all five of us to become this big hit.

451
00:25:49,796 --> 00:25:52,076
Speaker 1: I want to ask you about two more people who

452
00:25:52,116 --> 00:25:55,676
Speaker 1: are very important in your career, and the first is

453
00:25:55,796 --> 00:25:58,876
Speaker 1: Doc Watson. Can you tell that story? Sure? We were

454
00:25:58,916 --> 00:26:01,076
Speaker 1: on the street corner. It was the fifth of July

455
00:26:01,596 --> 00:26:04,676
Speaker 1: because on the fourth of July we made whiskey. We

456
00:26:04,796 --> 00:26:07,436
Speaker 1: made it with a water distiller that we got from

457
00:26:07,476 --> 00:26:10,116
Speaker 1: the old Lynnville Hospital because me and Gritter were cutting

458
00:26:10,116 --> 00:26:13,436
Speaker 1: rebar stakes there for manpower job. We did a lot

459
00:26:13,476 --> 00:26:16,236
Speaker 1: of odd jobs back then, and it got us a

460
00:26:16,236 --> 00:26:17,956
Speaker 1: lot of the kind of color that we used to

461
00:26:17,956 --> 00:26:20,956
Speaker 1: write songs later. It was all this period of time

462
00:26:20,956 --> 00:26:23,236
Speaker 1: that I thought of as like a hillbilly boot camp

463
00:26:23,276 --> 00:26:25,636
Speaker 1: for Old Crow, because you know, I mean, I learned

464
00:26:25,636 --> 00:26:27,556
Speaker 1: how to play, and I was from the South, but

465
00:26:27,796 --> 00:26:29,756
Speaker 1: like I went to prep school and I learned to

466
00:26:29,756 --> 00:26:31,996
Speaker 1: play the banjo, I learned to play Southern music in

467
00:26:32,076 --> 00:26:34,876
Speaker 1: New Hampshire. I learned to play Southern music in New

468
00:26:34,876 --> 00:26:37,036
Speaker 1: Hampshire from a guy from New Hampshire who went south

469
00:26:37,436 --> 00:26:39,436
Speaker 1: to learn to play Southern music and then went back

470
00:26:39,476 --> 00:26:41,596
Speaker 1: to New Hampshire and then taught it to me, and

471
00:26:41,636 --> 00:26:44,116
Speaker 1: I went back down south, and he learned all the

472
00:26:44,196 --> 00:26:47,236
Speaker 1: good ship from the seventies, back when the Truvon was

473
00:26:47,276 --> 00:26:52,076
Speaker 1: still intact, when you could find players who didn't play bluegrass.

474
00:26:52,156 --> 00:26:55,076
Speaker 1: They only played old time, and it had for generations,

475
00:26:55,356 --> 00:26:57,436
Speaker 1: but that died out in the seventies by the time

476
00:26:57,676 --> 00:27:00,316
Speaker 1: that I came around, So we were a new crop,

477
00:27:00,676 --> 00:27:02,476
Speaker 1: and I thought about us like a kind of new

478
00:27:02,516 --> 00:27:05,556
Speaker 1: last city ramblers. We were like the college kids, you

479
00:27:05,596 --> 00:27:07,956
Speaker 1: know with the beards who were like, gonna not go

480
00:27:08,036 --> 00:27:11,076
Speaker 1: to Vietnam. We We're gonna like grow turn ups and

481
00:27:11,076 --> 00:27:15,436
Speaker 1: ship woodstock or like nitty gritty or like nitty gritty

482
00:27:15,436 --> 00:27:19,516
Speaker 1: out in Colorado. Was Yeah, just like that, only you know,

483
00:27:20,076 --> 00:27:23,796
Speaker 1: in the nineties instead of in the seventies, which honestly

484
00:27:23,796 --> 00:27:27,076
Speaker 1: probably wasn't as nearly as much fun up in northwest

485
00:27:27,116 --> 00:27:29,836
Speaker 1: North Carolina in the nineties, where we found ourselves living

486
00:27:29,876 --> 00:27:31,916
Speaker 1: on a six hundred acre thing that we were renting

487
00:27:31,956 --> 00:27:34,916
Speaker 1: and working tobacco and cutting rebar and making whiskey and

488
00:27:35,156 --> 00:27:37,516
Speaker 1: planting by the lunar signs and doing all the zany

489
00:27:37,556 --> 00:27:39,316
Speaker 1: stuff that we were doing out of the box buyer

490
00:27:39,396 --> 00:27:43,396
Speaker 1: book to try and authenticate country music and sort of

491
00:27:43,436 --> 00:27:47,796
Speaker 1: like baptize ourselves and make ourselves worthy to sing songs

492
00:27:47,836 --> 00:27:52,556
Speaker 1: about like pig meat and you know, groundhogs and shooting

493
00:27:52,596 --> 00:27:55,556
Speaker 1: ground hogs and skinning them and making banjos. All the

494
00:27:55,876 --> 00:27:58,436
Speaker 1: crazy stuff that we did that felt like a kind

495
00:27:58,436 --> 00:28:02,516
Speaker 1: of important spiritual ceremony, got us in touch with the

496
00:28:02,516 --> 00:28:05,196
Speaker 1: great Shaman of all these things. And we're busting on

497
00:28:05,236 --> 00:28:07,996
Speaker 1: the street corner. We made whiskey and we were all hungover.

498
00:28:08,196 --> 00:28:09,796
Speaker 1: But on the fifth of j we knew we wanted

499
00:28:09,796 --> 00:28:10,956
Speaker 1: to go out and make a buck because all the

500
00:28:10,996 --> 00:28:13,556
Speaker 1: tourists were in from Charlotte. So we walked down to

501
00:28:14,036 --> 00:28:17,036
Speaker 1: the big corner store and boone the drug store there,

502
00:28:17,116 --> 00:28:20,676
Speaker 1: and we said we bust there before, and this lady said,

503
00:28:20,916 --> 00:28:22,596
Speaker 1: my daddy loves this kind of music. He and it's

504
00:28:22,596 --> 00:28:24,076
Speaker 1: going to be here for a while. And we said, well,

505
00:28:24,116 --> 00:28:26,356
Speaker 1: I don't know, just come back or tip usa, don't

506
00:28:26,596 --> 00:28:31,156
Speaker 1: we're all hungover. She came back. About an hour later,

507
00:28:31,276 --> 00:28:34,236
Speaker 1: she walked her dad, Doc Watson, across the street, and

508
00:28:34,356 --> 00:28:37,876
Speaker 1: I just remember being dumb struck seeing him walk out

509
00:28:37,876 --> 00:28:41,436
Speaker 1: of a red jeep Cherokee and Jay walk across the street.

510
00:28:41,516 --> 00:28:44,396
Speaker 1: You know, he's blind and as his daughter's leading him,

511
00:28:44,436 --> 00:28:48,356
Speaker 1: as Nancy Watson later became a great friend, and then

512
00:28:48,436 --> 00:28:51,396
Speaker 1: Doc comes up and he just annoints us right there

513
00:28:51,396 --> 00:28:55,716
Speaker 1: on the corner. Man was so beautiful. I can't believe

514
00:28:55,716 --> 00:28:58,436
Speaker 1: it happens. I still can't believe it happened. And as

515
00:28:58,436 --> 00:29:01,556
Speaker 1: it was happening, I thought, oh my god, it's happening.

516
00:29:02,156 --> 00:29:04,276
Speaker 1: All of the things that me and Chritter thought were

517
00:29:04,316 --> 00:29:07,716
Speaker 1: gonna happen are gonna happen. And what did he say

518
00:29:07,916 --> 00:29:10,596
Speaker 1: when you were were playing? When he came playing, we

519
00:29:10,596 --> 00:29:13,516
Speaker 1: were right in the middle of a tune called oh

520
00:29:13,556 --> 00:29:17,276
Speaker 1: My Little Darlin that goes like Jimmy holds the wagon,

521
00:29:17,676 --> 00:29:26,116
Speaker 1: Jimmy holds Little Darlin, you know, like a real old

522
00:29:26,156 --> 00:29:30,556
Speaker 1: time rake and rude and rambling kind of number. He says,

523
00:29:31,196 --> 00:29:33,636
Speaker 1: I was on that's some of the most authentic old

524
00:29:33,636 --> 00:29:37,356
Speaker 1: time music I've heard in a long time. He gave

525
00:29:37,436 --> 00:29:43,396
Speaker 1: like a radio quote. Nice and then and then he

526
00:29:43,436 --> 00:29:45,436
Speaker 1: said I'd like you boys to play my festival that

527
00:29:45,516 --> 00:29:47,836
Speaker 1: I have an honor on my son Merrel and he

528
00:29:47,876 --> 00:29:50,716
Speaker 1: brought us to the moral Fest. Wow. So the other

529
00:29:50,716 --> 00:29:54,596
Speaker 1: person I want to ask about is Marty Stewart. Well,

530
00:29:54,636 --> 00:29:57,836
Speaker 1: after Doc found us at them and brought us to

531
00:29:57,956 --> 00:30:00,556
Speaker 1: morral Fest, the next thing that happened was that the

532
00:30:00,636 --> 00:30:03,756
Speaker 1: Grand Old Opry found us at morral Fest. Like we

533
00:30:03,796 --> 00:30:07,156
Speaker 1: always knew to do, we busked, We did a stage show.

534
00:30:07,356 --> 00:30:10,636
Speaker 1: Doc got us a slot and Alice Girard hosted brought

535
00:30:10,716 --> 00:30:14,716
Speaker 1: us on at the traditional stage. But we sucked. We

536
00:30:14,956 --> 00:30:18,036
Speaker 1: weren't used to playing a microphones, we were all out

537
00:30:18,036 --> 00:30:21,276
Speaker 1: of tune. Everybody was kind of edgy, and we put

538
00:30:21,316 --> 00:30:24,316
Speaker 1: on a terrible set and also nobody was there. And

539
00:30:24,396 --> 00:30:26,676
Speaker 1: so afterwards we licked our wounds and we said, well,

540
00:30:26,716 --> 00:30:29,116
Speaker 1: let's just open up a case right here by this fountain.

541
00:30:29,116 --> 00:30:31,476
Speaker 1: We'll call this a stage of our own, and we

542
00:30:31,556 --> 00:30:34,636
Speaker 1: just started busking. All the people came over us. We

543
00:30:34,636 --> 00:30:38,476
Speaker 1: were the talk of the festival. And afterwards we got

544
00:30:38,516 --> 00:30:40,836
Speaker 1: a phone call from Sally Williams at the Opery said,

545
00:30:41,636 --> 00:30:44,996
Speaker 1: you know, I saw your festival sat at Merlefest at

546
00:30:44,676 --> 00:30:47,516
Speaker 1: the fake stage you made up, I want you to

547
00:30:47,556 --> 00:30:49,356
Speaker 1: come to Nashville and do the same thing out in

548
00:30:49,356 --> 00:30:51,916
Speaker 1: front of the Grand Old Opry. So the summer of

549
00:30:52,316 --> 00:30:54,796
Speaker 1: two thousand, we all came down to Nashville on the

550
00:30:54,836 --> 00:30:57,996
Speaker 1: weekends and we'd stay in a like a twenty six

551
00:30:58,036 --> 00:31:00,836
Speaker 1: dollar crack motel and we'd bust in front of the

552
00:31:00,876 --> 00:31:03,516
Speaker 1: Grand Old Opry and then our shift would end about

553
00:31:03,596 --> 00:31:07,116
Speaker 1: nine o'clock, we'd go downtown. We'd bust on Lower Broadway. God,

554
00:31:07,156 --> 00:31:10,436
Speaker 1: we were making like eight hundred dollars on a Friday night,

555
00:31:10,916 --> 00:31:13,156
Speaker 1: and we'd come back to that crack motel and we'd

556
00:31:13,156 --> 00:31:15,356
Speaker 1: buy two cases of beer and a cart and smokes,

557
00:31:15,356 --> 00:31:20,156
Speaker 1: and we would just just feel like kings and we

558
00:31:20,156 --> 00:31:23,196
Speaker 1: were the high rollers in those motels. And it was

559
00:31:23,236 --> 00:31:27,276
Speaker 1: a different Nashville. Like people weren't clamoring and moved to Nashville.

560
00:31:27,716 --> 00:31:30,476
Speaker 1: There was like the country music thing, and there was healthcare.

561
00:31:30,556 --> 00:31:34,356
Speaker 1: But you know, you could have bought those houses for nothing. Well,

562
00:31:34,396 --> 00:31:37,476
Speaker 1: it was around that time that we stumbled into Marty Stewart.

563
00:31:38,316 --> 00:31:41,436
Speaker 1: When we found that the Uncle Dave making Day's Festival

564
00:31:42,076 --> 00:31:44,516
Speaker 1: had had a five hundred dollar prize. We thought, well,

565
00:31:44,556 --> 00:31:46,956
Speaker 1: let's go down there and win it. And we went

566
00:31:46,956 --> 00:31:50,036
Speaker 1: down to Murfresboro and we were busking there making a

567
00:31:50,076 --> 00:31:53,196
Speaker 1: big hoot, and Marty Stewart walked in. He was the

568
00:31:53,636 --> 00:31:58,996
Speaker 1: grand mason of the festival that year, and he brought

569
00:31:59,076 --> 00:32:03,196
Speaker 1: us into his fold right away and made sure that

570
00:32:03,236 --> 00:32:06,956
Speaker 1: we played the Oprey. He hosted our first Oprey debut

571
00:32:07,076 --> 00:32:10,116
Speaker 1: at the Rhyman, you know, which which came just three

572
00:32:10,156 --> 00:32:13,316
Speaker 1: months after that, and then you know, had us open

573
00:32:13,436 --> 00:32:15,996
Speaker 1: for him, had us out to the house, made us

574
00:32:16,076 --> 00:32:20,556
Speaker 1: know that his Nashville was a place that we were welcome,

575
00:32:21,676 --> 00:32:25,396
Speaker 1: and he what was your first performance like in the Opry?

576
00:32:25,836 --> 00:32:29,396
Speaker 1: It was in January when the Opry would traditionally move

577
00:32:29,596 --> 00:32:33,316
Speaker 1: from its home at the Opry House down to its

578
00:32:33,356 --> 00:32:37,036
Speaker 1: old home at the Rhyman Auditorium. And we all got

579
00:32:37,116 --> 00:32:41,876
Speaker 1: dressed up in suits and we were all so nervous.

580
00:32:42,116 --> 00:32:44,556
Speaker 1: Critter was so nervous he threw up in the trash

581
00:32:44,596 --> 00:32:47,196
Speaker 1: can right there in the wings before we walked on,

582
00:32:47,796 --> 00:32:50,556
Speaker 1: and we were all just sweat and bullets. And we

583
00:32:50,676 --> 00:32:53,716
Speaker 1: came out there and Marty had given us each little

584
00:32:53,756 --> 00:32:58,756
Speaker 1: gee gauze to where it was really helpful honestly to Kevin,

585
00:32:58,756 --> 00:33:02,076
Speaker 1: our get Joe player. He gave a pair of glasses

586
00:33:02,116 --> 00:33:05,956
Speaker 1: that had belonged to some old Hollywood movie star, and

587
00:33:06,076 --> 00:33:09,356
Speaker 1: to me he gave a funny kind of vel vid

588
00:33:09,476 --> 00:33:14,276
Speaker 1: bow tie that had belonged to Slim Whitman. And everybody

589
00:33:14,316 --> 00:33:17,196
Speaker 1: had one little thing to like borrow for the set,

590
00:33:17,196 --> 00:33:22,156
Speaker 1: because Marty's a collector, He's got all this crazy memorabilia.

591
00:33:22,276 --> 00:33:25,756
Speaker 1: And we did some old time Holcomb songs that brought

592
00:33:25,836 --> 00:33:28,996
Speaker 1: the house down, and when they asked for an encore,

593
00:33:29,556 --> 00:33:31,476
Speaker 1: we didn't know what to do, so we just played

594
00:33:31,516 --> 00:33:35,676
Speaker 1: the same song again and then they wanted another encore. Honestly,

595
00:33:35,716 --> 00:33:39,116
Speaker 1: it felt the closest that I've ever felt to feeling

596
00:33:39,156 --> 00:33:43,036
Speaker 1: like Hank Williams must have felt that time that he

597
00:33:43,116 --> 00:33:46,396
Speaker 1: made his opery debut, or just to be Hank Williams.

598
00:33:47,476 --> 00:33:51,356
Speaker 1: It was like there was no nothing digital about the world.

599
00:33:51,596 --> 00:33:55,836
Speaker 1: It was like an analog moment. We were on AM radio,

600
00:33:56,396 --> 00:34:00,036
Speaker 1: we were not on the internet. It was the year

601
00:34:00,116 --> 00:34:04,996
Speaker 1: two thousand. I didn't have a cell phone. I was

602
00:34:05,036 --> 00:34:08,916
Speaker 1: still carrying a spiral notebook in my back pocket. And

603
00:34:09,556 --> 00:34:13,316
Speaker 1: the crowd in a hundred and twenty year old gospel

604
00:34:13,436 --> 00:34:16,796
Speaker 1: union tabernacle all rose to its feet because we were

605
00:34:16,796 --> 00:34:20,676
Speaker 1: playing one hundred year old music that made him feel joy.

606
00:34:21,156 --> 00:34:23,276
Speaker 1: We have to take one last quick break, but after

607
00:34:23,316 --> 00:34:25,916
Speaker 1: that we'll be back with more from Bruce Headlam, Catch

608
00:34:26,036 --> 00:34:33,356
Speaker 1: S Corps, and Jerry Pentecost. We're back with the rest

609
00:34:33,356 --> 00:34:36,116
Speaker 1: of Bruce's interview with Catching Jerry of All the Chrome

610
00:34:36,116 --> 00:34:38,796
Speaker 1: Medicine Show. There's a song on your record I do

611
00:34:38,876 --> 00:34:42,196
Speaker 1: want to talk about, which is de Ford Bailey Rides Again. Well,

612
00:34:42,236 --> 00:34:45,196
Speaker 1: it's de Ford Rides Again, but it's about this incredible

613
00:34:45,276 --> 00:34:48,356
Speaker 1: character to Ford Bailey. Can you talk a bit about that.

614
00:34:48,836 --> 00:34:51,236
Speaker 1: When we were working on songs for the record, Ketch

615
00:34:51,276 --> 00:34:52,556
Speaker 1: reached out to me and he was like, you know,

616
00:34:52,556 --> 00:34:54,236
Speaker 1: like I've been working on this idea of writing a

617
00:34:54,276 --> 00:34:57,636
Speaker 1: song about DeFord Bailey, and so like we got together

618
00:34:58,316 --> 00:35:01,316
Speaker 1: and we just kind of started talking about it, you know,

619
00:35:01,396 --> 00:35:03,636
Speaker 1: like talking about him as an individual, you know, like

620
00:35:03,676 --> 00:35:05,636
Speaker 1: what he stood for, and it kind of actually I

621
00:35:05,716 --> 00:35:07,636
Speaker 1: never told you this, but it made me think back

622
00:35:07,676 --> 00:35:10,156
Speaker 1: to like in my early days of you know, like

623
00:35:10,236 --> 00:35:13,436
Speaker 1: being this drummer for hire, you know, like and when

624
00:35:13,476 --> 00:35:15,796
Speaker 1: I was starting to play country music, people would ask me,

625
00:35:15,916 --> 00:35:17,876
Speaker 1: you know, like like do you want to be in

626
00:35:17,876 --> 00:35:19,596
Speaker 1: country music? And I was like why there's no black

627
00:35:19,596 --> 00:35:22,316
Speaker 1: people in country music, and every so often somebody would say,

628
00:35:22,316 --> 00:35:24,876
Speaker 1: what about Depot Bailey? And I never knew who he was.

629
00:35:25,556 --> 00:35:28,676
Speaker 1: And you know, like we played the Opery for years now,

630
00:35:28,676 --> 00:35:31,676
Speaker 1: they've been members since what twenty twelve, twenty thirteen. Uh,

631
00:35:31,796 --> 00:35:35,356
Speaker 1: there's not a really strong presence of him at the Opery.

632
00:35:35,476 --> 00:35:38,796
Speaker 1: So like, as a African American individual, when I'm there,

633
00:35:39,436 --> 00:35:42,396
Speaker 1: you know, like I I'm sensing for you know, like

634
00:35:42,396 --> 00:35:45,796
Speaker 1: a feeling of belonging, you know, and uh and so

635
00:35:45,836 --> 00:35:49,516
Speaker 1: like if you don't see representation, you know, like then

636
00:35:49,556 --> 00:35:52,716
Speaker 1: it's kind of hard to figure. So so yeah, so

637
00:35:52,756 --> 00:35:56,316
Speaker 1: like I was really excited about resurrecting this, this legacy,

638
00:35:56,396 --> 00:35:59,156
Speaker 1: this you know, like this wrong doing because that's kind

639
00:35:59,196 --> 00:36:01,596
Speaker 1: of you know, like how how I look at it,

640
00:36:01,676 --> 00:36:04,956
Speaker 1: this fallen soldier or pioneer of the Oprey. You know,

641
00:36:04,996 --> 00:36:08,516
Speaker 1: everybody knows about Roy Cuff and Mini Pearl, but people

642
00:36:08,556 --> 00:36:11,876
Speaker 1: seldom now about Defort Bailey. And he is a member

643
00:36:11,916 --> 00:36:13,916
Speaker 1: of the Country Music Hall of Fame. It only took

644
00:36:13,996 --> 00:36:17,076
Speaker 1: them what twenty some ode years after he died for

645
00:36:17,116 --> 00:36:20,236
Speaker 1: them to do it. And you know, him being on

646
00:36:20,276 --> 00:36:24,796
Speaker 1: the show when the term or the name Grand Old

647
00:36:24,796 --> 00:36:28,356
Speaker 1: Opry was introduced for the first time, being the first

648
00:36:28,636 --> 00:36:32,636
Speaker 1: African American member. You know, like there's just um, there's

649
00:36:32,676 --> 00:36:34,796
Speaker 1: a lot dismissing. So you know, like we wanted to

650
00:36:34,796 --> 00:36:37,876
Speaker 1: tell this this song about the legacy and the life

651
00:36:37,876 --> 00:36:40,276
Speaker 1: of Defour Bailey, and it's it's actually, you know, kind

652
00:36:40,316 --> 00:36:43,716
Speaker 1: of kind of sad. He was the first performer, wasn't

653
00:36:43,716 --> 00:36:46,796
Speaker 1: he on the radio show? Yeah, the Grand Old Opry

654
00:36:47,316 --> 00:36:51,036
Speaker 1: opened with an African American performer. He was a harmonica player,

655
00:36:51,396 --> 00:36:54,636
Speaker 1: a harmonica wizard. They called him the Harmonica Wizard. And

656
00:36:54,756 --> 00:36:59,196
Speaker 1: he would open up the show is on WSM by

657
00:36:59,276 --> 00:37:01,716
Speaker 1: playing the sound of the freight train called the Pan

658
00:37:01,756 --> 00:37:04,356
Speaker 1: American that would blow. That would blow as it went

659
00:37:04,436 --> 00:37:12,716
Speaker 1: by the broadcast tower. And then he would sing his

660
00:37:12,836 --> 00:37:15,636
Speaker 1: songs and he did fox chases in all this mimicry.

661
00:37:15,676 --> 00:37:18,356
Speaker 1: And you know, he was the grandchild of slaves. Born

662
00:37:18,396 --> 00:37:22,436
Speaker 1: in Smith County, Tennessee, eighteen ninety nine. He had polio

663
00:37:22,516 --> 00:37:24,756
Speaker 1: when he was a kid. As an adult, he was

664
00:37:24,796 --> 00:37:30,196
Speaker 1: about four foot nine, and he became the very first

665
00:37:30,316 --> 00:37:33,756
Speaker 1: African American recording artist in Nashville. And he did that

666
00:37:33,796 --> 00:37:36,516
Speaker 1: in the twenties. His albums were released to both a

667
00:37:36,556 --> 00:37:40,196
Speaker 1: white and black audience. His acclaim from the opry. He

668
00:37:40,316 --> 00:37:43,916
Speaker 1: was so popular. He was a national touring act. And

669
00:37:44,036 --> 00:37:46,276
Speaker 1: he would go out on the road with Bill Monroe

670
00:37:47,116 --> 00:37:49,916
Speaker 1: and they would have to put him in a suitcase

671
00:37:50,716 --> 00:37:53,556
Speaker 1: to bring him into some of these hotels where he

672
00:37:53,596 --> 00:37:56,636
Speaker 1: wasn't welcome as a black man in the South. He

673
00:37:56,716 --> 00:37:58,956
Speaker 1: was so small he could ride in a steamer trunk.

674
00:37:59,996 --> 00:38:01,876
Speaker 1: It kind of makes me want to cry when I

675
00:38:01,916 --> 00:38:06,916
Speaker 1: think about that. Did he perform on stage with white performers? Oh? Yeah.

676
00:38:06,956 --> 00:38:08,716
Speaker 1: And so when the Opery would go out on the

677
00:38:08,756 --> 00:38:11,156
Speaker 1: tour is during the weeks, because you know, the Opery

678
00:38:11,196 --> 00:38:14,116
Speaker 1: was a weekend show, but all through the weeks, opera

679
00:38:14,156 --> 00:38:16,396
Speaker 1: members could play anywhere that they could get a booking,

680
00:38:16,996 --> 00:38:18,716
Speaker 1: and that's where they could really make money because the

681
00:38:18,716 --> 00:38:21,636
Speaker 1: opera didn't pay. So he would tour with Uncle Dave Machan,

682
00:38:21,676 --> 00:38:25,356
Speaker 1: who was the biggest star of this era in which

683
00:38:25,916 --> 00:38:29,276
Speaker 1: hillbilly music and vaudeville were sort of thick as thieves,

684
00:38:29,276 --> 00:38:32,236
Speaker 1: and before anybody even called it country and Western, it

685
00:38:32,316 --> 00:38:35,276
Speaker 1: was just called hillbilly music. DeFord Bailey was a hillbilly

686
00:38:35,316 --> 00:38:40,036
Speaker 1: star and the first black recording artist in Nashville. So

687
00:38:40,116 --> 00:38:44,756
Speaker 1: we knew we wanted to resurrect the story in the

688
00:38:44,836 --> 00:38:49,756
Speaker 1: nineteen eighties, the early eighties, after DeFord had been kicked

689
00:38:49,796 --> 00:38:53,316
Speaker 1: off the opry, had his name dragged through the mud,

690
00:38:53,396 --> 00:38:57,556
Speaker 1: became a shoeshine operator. Okay, let's back up. Why did

691
00:38:57,556 --> 00:39:00,556
Speaker 1: he get kicked off the opera? Well, the story is

692
00:39:00,636 --> 00:39:06,556
Speaker 1: that in nineteen forty one that BMI and a couple

693
00:39:06,636 --> 00:39:13,076
Speaker 1: other songwriting performance royalty bear agencies determined that you could

694
00:39:13,076 --> 00:39:16,316
Speaker 1: make more money if you did their catalog on the

695
00:39:16,436 --> 00:39:20,836
Speaker 1: radio because of new broadcast a copyright laws that would

696
00:39:21,116 --> 00:39:25,436
Speaker 1: were royalty bearing. And the opera says that they said

697
00:39:25,476 --> 00:39:28,276
Speaker 1: to d Ford, if you're going to stay on the opera,

698
00:39:28,356 --> 00:39:31,636
Speaker 1: you have to do a new catalog of songs, and

699
00:39:31,716 --> 00:39:34,436
Speaker 1: d Ford said, well, I only play the songs I play.

700
00:39:35,796 --> 00:39:39,756
Speaker 1: And then after he was then dismissed, they said that

701
00:39:39,836 --> 00:39:43,836
Speaker 1: he was sullen in his work ethic as attributed to

702
00:39:43,956 --> 00:39:47,516
Speaker 1: men of his color. That was the quote from the

703
00:39:48,076 --> 00:39:52,476
Speaker 1: Honorable Judge D. Hay, who was the longtime radio voice

704
00:39:52,556 --> 00:39:56,396
Speaker 1: of the Grand ol Opry. So they basically, you know,

705
00:39:56,556 --> 00:40:01,276
Speaker 1: they blackballed him and he lived another forty years and

706
00:40:01,516 --> 00:40:06,516
Speaker 1: eventually moved into federal housing he ran a successful shoeshine business,

707
00:40:07,076 --> 00:40:10,076
Speaker 1: and then in the late seventies they started bringing him

708
00:40:10,116 --> 00:40:12,996
Speaker 1: back to the Opry and kind of token rolls, old

709
00:40:12,996 --> 00:40:18,276
Speaker 1: timers show and yeah, there was a folklorist who discovered

710
00:40:18,316 --> 00:40:20,676
Speaker 1: him who's since become a friend of mine named David

711
00:40:20,716 --> 00:40:26,836
Speaker 1: Morton who was working for HUD And he was, you know,

712
00:40:26,996 --> 00:40:31,876
Speaker 1: a college grad, white kid, maybe at Vanderbilt or something,

713
00:40:32,196 --> 00:40:35,276
Speaker 1: new employee that summer for HOOD. And he's going around

714
00:40:35,316 --> 00:40:39,156
Speaker 1: in the housing projects checking in with residents, and somebody

715
00:40:39,196 --> 00:40:41,756
Speaker 1: said he liked music, and some old lady said to him, well,

716
00:40:41,756 --> 00:40:43,916
Speaker 1: if you like music, you need to go up to

717
00:40:43,956 --> 00:40:47,996
Speaker 1: the eighth floor. Well, de Ford Bailey lives there. And

718
00:40:48,116 --> 00:40:51,076
Speaker 1: he comes back home and to his dad in Alabama.

719
00:40:51,276 --> 00:40:53,996
Speaker 1: His dad was born, you know, in the teens or something,

720
00:40:54,356 --> 00:40:55,876
Speaker 1: and he said, oh, yeah, I just met this old

721
00:40:55,876 --> 00:40:59,076
Speaker 1: black gentleman plays a harmonica. Allats his name, d Ford Bailey.

722
00:40:59,156 --> 00:41:02,556
Speaker 1: You met Dvord Bailey. He's still alive because this guy,

723
00:41:02,636 --> 00:41:05,396
Speaker 1: David Morton's father had listened to the Opry in the

724
00:41:05,436 --> 00:41:09,836
Speaker 1: twenties and knew that Dvord was a legend. And so

725
00:41:10,356 --> 00:41:13,716
Speaker 1: d Ford told David that he felt that God had

726
00:41:13,716 --> 00:41:17,876
Speaker 1: called them together so that Dford's story could finally be

727
00:41:17,956 --> 00:41:22,876
Speaker 1: retold and and Dford could finally say his piece. And

728
00:41:22,916 --> 00:41:25,396
Speaker 1: so he wrote a book, he made a record. All

729
00:41:25,436 --> 00:41:27,156
Speaker 1: of these things happen in the nineteen in the year

730
00:41:27,276 --> 00:41:29,756
Speaker 1: nineteen eighty. I think he died in about nineteen eighty two.

731
00:41:30,436 --> 00:41:32,716
Speaker 1: But I think the most moving thing for the whole

732
00:41:32,716 --> 00:41:34,916
Speaker 1: story about me was I wanted to write a song

733
00:41:34,956 --> 00:41:37,756
Speaker 1: about d Ford ever since I came to Nashville, but

734
00:41:37,836 --> 00:41:39,956
Speaker 1: I never felt like it'd be appropriate for me, as

735
00:41:39,956 --> 00:41:44,356
Speaker 1: a white country guy, to sing that song. And when

736
00:41:44,436 --> 00:41:46,316
Speaker 1: Jerry and I got together, I mean, Jerry can write

737
00:41:46,316 --> 00:41:48,676
Speaker 1: any song Jerry wants to write, but I thought that

738
00:41:48,716 --> 00:41:51,316
Speaker 1: this might be a good song, and Jerry helped me

739
00:41:51,356 --> 00:41:54,436
Speaker 1: finish it and then tell him about our trip after

740
00:41:54,476 --> 00:41:58,236
Speaker 1: we both got COVID over Christmas. Oh yeah, So we

741
00:41:58,316 --> 00:42:02,676
Speaker 1: got COVID three days before Christmas, and you know, we

742
00:42:02,676 --> 00:42:04,756
Speaker 1: were just constantly checking in on each other because we

743
00:42:04,836 --> 00:42:07,596
Speaker 1: both had to be isolated. And U and I say,

744
00:42:07,636 --> 00:42:08,916
Speaker 1: you know, it's kind of nice the day you want

745
00:42:08,916 --> 00:42:10,116
Speaker 1: to go for a walk, And he was like, yeah,

746
00:42:10,156 --> 00:42:12,436
Speaker 1: let's go to a cemetery. And I had a cousin

747
00:42:12,516 --> 00:42:15,076
Speaker 1: that had just passed three days before we had COVID,

748
00:42:15,196 --> 00:42:16,636
Speaker 1: So I was like, I wanted to go out there.

749
00:42:16,636 --> 00:42:21,316
Speaker 1: And my mom's buried. Greenwood Cemetery's second oldest African American

750
00:42:21,356 --> 00:42:24,516
Speaker 1: cemetery in Nashville. So I've got a lot of family

751
00:42:24,636 --> 00:42:27,556
Speaker 1: out there, and yeah, you know, I said, how about Greenwood?

752
00:42:27,556 --> 00:42:29,796
Speaker 1: And he was like perfect. So we met at Greenwood

753
00:42:29,796 --> 00:42:31,596
Speaker 1: and I said, I, you know, I looked up you

754
00:42:31,636 --> 00:42:34,836
Speaker 1: can do grape Finder found out where d Ford Bailey's

755
00:42:34,876 --> 00:42:37,436
Speaker 1: grave was. And first we went to d Ford Bailey

756
00:42:37,556 --> 00:42:40,636
Speaker 1: Junior and saw his grave, which is actually really close

757
00:42:40,676 --> 00:42:42,676
Speaker 1: to one of my uncles. But then d Ford's it's

758
00:42:42,836 --> 00:42:46,596
Speaker 1: right kind of in the front, which is really like

759
00:42:47,116 --> 00:42:49,396
Speaker 1: two feet over from an aunt of mine. It's across

760
00:42:49,476 --> 00:42:51,916
Speaker 1: away from my mom and my granddad. You know. Like

761
00:42:51,956 --> 00:42:54,916
Speaker 1: so there was just all this there was this energy

762
00:42:55,156 --> 00:42:56,796
Speaker 1: there that you know, like all of a sudden, It's

763
00:42:56,836 --> 00:42:59,956
Speaker 1: like even though we had to get COVID to experience it,

764
00:42:59,996 --> 00:43:01,796
Speaker 1: you know, like we were we were right there, like

765
00:43:01,876 --> 00:43:07,156
Speaker 1: we were in the presence of country music, African American history,

766
00:43:07,276 --> 00:43:10,236
Speaker 1: like a legend, you know, like right there in such

767
00:43:10,476 --> 00:43:13,436
Speaker 1: close proximity to you know, like to my family, and

768
00:43:13,516 --> 00:43:16,156
Speaker 1: like potentially. I haven't decided if I wanted to be buried,

769
00:43:16,156 --> 00:43:18,276
Speaker 1: but like if I did, that's where I would go,

770
00:43:18,436 --> 00:43:21,156
Speaker 1: you know. So so yeah, like it just it seemed

771
00:43:21,196 --> 00:43:23,116
Speaker 1: like we were on the right track for what we

772
00:43:23,116 --> 00:43:26,076
Speaker 1: were trying to do, like I said, resurrecting this um

773
00:43:26,716 --> 00:43:29,996
Speaker 1: the story and the life of this fallen soldier and

774
00:43:30,276 --> 00:43:34,116
Speaker 1: in the early scapes of country music. So and we

775
00:43:34,156 --> 00:43:36,036
Speaker 1: go out and we play the song, and you know,

776
00:43:36,156 --> 00:43:39,596
Speaker 1: like a lot of people don't really know about Defour

777
00:43:39,756 --> 00:43:42,316
Speaker 1: Bailey and and I feel like now it's become up

778
00:43:42,356 --> 00:43:46,396
Speaker 1: to us to to educate crowds and anybody who wants to,

779
00:43:46,796 --> 00:43:48,676
Speaker 1: you know, like either one of us can can talk

780
00:43:48,716 --> 00:43:51,436
Speaker 1: about it for days, because like it's just it's important

781
00:43:51,636 --> 00:43:54,356
Speaker 1: and what you would hope the opera is fighting for,

782
00:43:54,516 --> 00:43:58,836
Speaker 1: like this all inclusive diversity. You know, like you when

783
00:43:58,836 --> 00:44:01,036
Speaker 1: you ever you're out and you see something happen, you're

784
00:44:01,076 --> 00:44:02,676
Speaker 1: like there's so much stick could be done, or like

785
00:44:02,676 --> 00:44:05,196
Speaker 1: you're in a situation and you just don't know what

786
00:44:05,236 --> 00:44:07,156
Speaker 1: to do and you're just thinking in your head like

787
00:44:07,356 --> 00:44:10,036
Speaker 1: there's so much, like there's just so much work to do.

788
00:44:10,156 --> 00:44:13,396
Speaker 1: That's how I feel about DeFord Bailey. There's so much

789
00:44:13,436 --> 00:44:18,996
Speaker 1: work to do to bring the righteousness back to restore.

790
00:44:19,236 --> 00:44:23,516
Speaker 1: You know. It's very symbolic of what's happened in the

791
00:44:23,636 --> 00:44:29,876
Speaker 1: Nashville music story, which has operated in by an apartheid

792
00:44:29,956 --> 00:44:33,956
Speaker 1: like playbook, and addressing the issues in country music in general.

793
00:44:34,116 --> 00:44:39,196
Speaker 1: You know, like that people blindly, you know, like way

794
00:44:39,316 --> 00:44:42,796
Speaker 1: through I have no choice but to acknowledge it. But

795
00:44:42,916 --> 00:44:46,036
Speaker 1: for some other people, you know, like they can acknowledge

796
00:44:46,036 --> 00:44:50,076
Speaker 1: it except when, you know, like when it's not beneficial

797
00:44:50,196 --> 00:44:52,316
Speaker 1: to them, you know, So like I kind of feel

798
00:44:52,356 --> 00:44:54,716
Speaker 1: like we're we're stuck where we have to be on

799
00:44:54,756 --> 00:44:57,396
Speaker 1: the side fighting for it, and then other people can

800
00:44:57,436 --> 00:45:00,276
Speaker 1: fight for it when it's convenient and then pull back,

801
00:45:00,396 --> 00:45:03,356
Speaker 1: you know, like I only got the fight, that's all

802
00:45:03,356 --> 00:45:06,196
Speaker 1: I got. Well, we're fighting to make sure that everybody

803
00:45:06,276 --> 00:45:09,156
Speaker 1: understands what happened to d Ford and that it it

804
00:45:09,276 --> 00:45:12,716
Speaker 1: never happen again, and it's just important to recognize it.

805
00:45:13,156 --> 00:45:16,196
Speaker 1: You know. There's a kind of reckoning that's on in

806
00:45:16,756 --> 00:45:19,956
Speaker 1: all all of the institutions of the of our country

807
00:45:20,116 --> 00:45:24,156
Speaker 1: right now, and Nashville is also one and that and

808
00:45:24,196 --> 00:45:27,236
Speaker 1: the reckoning is on and that in the music business

809
00:45:27,276 --> 00:45:31,076
Speaker 1: in Nashville and it needs to be. Recently, the Nayam,

810
00:45:31,196 --> 00:45:34,476
Speaker 1: the National African American Music Museum opened up. It's three

811
00:45:34,836 --> 00:45:37,356
Speaker 1: three blocks across the street from the Country Music Hall

812
00:45:37,436 --> 00:45:41,116
Speaker 1: of Fame and Museum, and that it suggests to me

813
00:45:41,196 --> 00:45:43,516
Speaker 1: that and I love Naymeam, and I love the Country

814
00:45:43,596 --> 00:45:46,276
Speaker 1: Music Hall of Fame. But country music is black music,

815
00:45:47,756 --> 00:45:52,756
Speaker 1: and black music is country music. That's what Ray Charles s. Yeah.

816
00:45:52,916 --> 00:45:55,436
Speaker 1: Can I talk about a couple other songs? Sure? A

817
00:45:55,476 --> 00:45:58,156
Speaker 1: lot of politics in this record. We just talked a

818
00:45:58,156 --> 00:46:00,636
Speaker 1: bit about racial politics. Can you tell me a bit

819
00:46:00,636 --> 00:46:04,556
Speaker 1: about Glory Land? Sure that that feels like a kind

820
00:46:04,596 --> 00:46:07,596
Speaker 1: of pandemic song. You know. I talked about my love

821
00:46:07,596 --> 00:46:11,116
Speaker 1: of Bob Dylan. One of my favorite periods of Bob's

822
00:46:11,276 --> 00:46:15,356
Speaker 1: artistic expression is in the seventies with the Rolling Thunder Review.

823
00:46:16,036 --> 00:46:19,436
Speaker 1: I loved that big band and Scarlet Riviera on the

824
00:46:19,476 --> 00:46:23,516
Speaker 1: fiddle and Joan Bayez singing and Roger McGuinn back there

825
00:46:23,556 --> 00:46:28,076
Speaker 1: beating on a tom tom or something and ringo somewhere nearby,

826
00:46:29,236 --> 00:46:32,636
Speaker 1: you know, just the kaleidoscope and the party. So that

827
00:46:32,676 --> 00:46:34,716
Speaker 1: was sort of sonically what we were going after the

828
00:46:34,756 --> 00:46:36,796
Speaker 1: way we recorded it. And it's a song that Critter

829
00:46:36,796 --> 00:46:39,916
Speaker 1: and I wrote early, you know, before the pandemic. It's

830
00:46:39,956 --> 00:46:42,796
Speaker 1: an older song that always felt a little too rock

831
00:46:42,836 --> 00:46:45,436
Speaker 1: and roll for any of the old Crow records that

832
00:46:45,716 --> 00:46:49,476
Speaker 1: it would have been around for. But has the seems

833
00:46:49,516 --> 00:46:53,116
Speaker 1: to have predicted the global shut down pretty well. I

834
00:46:53,196 --> 00:46:56,196
Speaker 1: think we wrote that song and oh maybe twenty fifteen

835
00:46:56,276 --> 00:46:59,236
Speaker 1: or something. I was just waiting for twenty twenty to

836
00:46:59,876 --> 00:47:04,716
Speaker 1: hit home. A very different song is the New Mississippi Flag.

837
00:47:04,756 --> 00:47:08,636
Speaker 1: It's a very beautiful song. Tell me about that. During

838
00:47:08,676 --> 00:47:10,476
Speaker 1: the pan EMC, you know, there was a lot of

839
00:47:10,476 --> 00:47:15,316
Speaker 1: things to get down about, you know, and when George

840
00:47:15,316 --> 00:47:20,476
Speaker 1: Floyd got murdered, me and Jerry were together anyway there

841
00:47:20,476 --> 00:47:23,396
Speaker 1: it just felt like everything was coming apart. But I

842
00:47:23,476 --> 00:47:25,716
Speaker 1: heard one story I really liked, and it was a

843
00:47:25,836 --> 00:47:28,756
Speaker 1: story I'd been hoping for, and that the flag of

844
00:47:29,316 --> 00:47:33,956
Speaker 1: the rebel flag was coming down finally in Mississippi. You know,

845
00:47:33,996 --> 00:47:36,836
Speaker 1: there has to be an alpha and omega in all

846
00:47:36,836 --> 00:47:39,556
Speaker 1: of this, and Virginia might have been the first place

847
00:47:39,596 --> 00:47:42,756
Speaker 1: to have a black governor in the South or anywhere

848
00:47:42,756 --> 00:47:45,716
Speaker 1: in the United States, but somebody had to be the

849
00:47:45,796 --> 00:47:50,236
Speaker 1: last one to lower the rebel flag. And it's Mississippi

850
00:47:50,676 --> 00:47:55,156
Speaker 1: and it's long overdue, and so I got so excited

851
00:47:55,196 --> 00:47:59,956
Speaker 1: about it that I was shouting and my kids said, hush,

852
00:48:00,116 --> 00:48:02,676
Speaker 1: what are you so excited about? And they were watching

853
00:48:02,716 --> 00:48:05,436
Speaker 1: TV and they came and I said, put it on pause.

854
00:48:05,516 --> 00:48:08,676
Speaker 1: You have to hear this, and they all, what's going on.

855
00:48:09,396 --> 00:48:13,476
Speaker 1: They're bringing down the rebel flag in Mississippi. And here's

856
00:48:13,516 --> 00:48:16,636
Speaker 1: why it matters. And then as talking to my kid

857
00:48:16,716 --> 00:48:19,116
Speaker 1: in the bed, and he said, out of the blue,

858
00:48:19,316 --> 00:48:22,116
Speaker 1: what's gonna be on the new? One said what the

859
00:48:22,236 --> 00:48:25,236
Speaker 1: new flag? What is it gonna look like? And I

860
00:48:25,236 --> 00:48:28,676
Speaker 1: thought it was the most wonderful question. And so I

861
00:48:28,676 --> 00:48:31,596
Speaker 1: thought with a song, I could explain what will the

862
00:48:31,676 --> 00:48:35,836
Speaker 1: new Mississippi flag look like? And I just want to

863
00:48:35,876 --> 00:48:39,116
Speaker 1: bring a new Mississippi flag up everywhere. I want to

864
00:48:39,116 --> 00:48:42,476
Speaker 1: bring one up in country music in Nashville, Tennessee. I

865
00:48:42,516 --> 00:48:45,116
Speaker 1: want to bring one up in Virginia and New Hampshire

866
00:48:45,196 --> 00:48:49,436
Speaker 1: and over the grave of John Brown. Let's stitch something

867
00:48:49,556 --> 00:48:53,916
Speaker 1: new states Hallelujah. You've got great lyrics in that song. Oh,

868
00:48:53,956 --> 00:48:56,476
Speaker 1: I just dreamed them all up. I put Elvis in

869
00:48:56,516 --> 00:48:59,716
Speaker 1: there for big Boy Crudup. I would have liked to

870
00:48:59,716 --> 00:49:03,996
Speaker 1: put Arthur in there, but he was from Memphis. Eudora Wealth,

871
00:49:04,036 --> 00:49:06,676
Speaker 1: he's in there. Yeah, I went to her house. I'm

872
00:49:06,676 --> 00:49:10,516
Speaker 1: a big fan, especially of Delta wedding. Yeah, I put

873
00:49:10,876 --> 00:49:14,076
Speaker 1: and I put Charlie Pride in there, who died of

874
00:49:14,156 --> 00:49:18,156
Speaker 1: COVID and was always our biggest champion at the Grand

875
00:49:18,156 --> 00:49:21,676
Speaker 1: Old Opry, him and little Jimmy, you know, the winner

876
00:49:21,756 --> 00:49:24,956
Speaker 1: before COVID. He was on the Opry. And we got

877
00:49:24,996 --> 00:49:29,596
Speaker 1: together and he held my children and we talked about baseball,

878
00:49:29,636 --> 00:49:32,596
Speaker 1: and you know, we were friends. It was so such

879
00:49:32,636 --> 00:49:35,676
Speaker 1: a happy, happy memory, like having more Old Haggard whisper

880
00:49:35,716 --> 00:49:39,356
Speaker 1: in your ear when Charlie Pride puts his arms around

881
00:49:39,356 --> 00:49:42,516
Speaker 1: your kid. Yeah. What kind of guy was he? Oh?

882
00:49:42,556 --> 00:49:47,436
Speaker 1: A wonderful guy, an amazing performer. His voice was so good.

883
00:49:47,756 --> 00:49:52,036
Speaker 1: He was very kind, very willing to talk, loved history

884
00:49:52,076 --> 00:49:56,396
Speaker 1: and had a kind of numerological sensibility. I remember when

885
00:49:56,396 --> 00:49:58,876
Speaker 1: we joined the Opry. He came up to us a

886
00:49:58,956 --> 00:50:01,996
Speaker 1: month later and he said, I understand you guys. You

887
00:50:02,116 --> 00:50:05,316
Speaker 1: fellows joined the Grand Old Opry on September twelfth, two

888
00:50:05,996 --> 00:50:09,396
Speaker 1: and twelve. That means And then he like brought it

889
00:50:09,396 --> 00:50:12,276
Speaker 1: back to something that happened in the seventies. He was

890
00:50:12,436 --> 00:50:17,236
Speaker 1: so attuned to the numbers. His legacy will be felt

891
00:50:17,276 --> 00:50:22,036
Speaker 1: at the Grand lit Opry and in Nashville country music eternally. Well,

892
00:50:22,476 --> 00:50:24,116
Speaker 1: let's play one for him. Then you want to do

893
00:50:24,396 --> 00:50:28,036
Speaker 1: paint this town? Yeah, that'd be great. Hey, how about

894
00:50:28,036 --> 00:50:33,916
Speaker 1: we start to like we do it regularly. Yeah, so

895
00:50:34,036 --> 00:50:39,756
Speaker 1: everybody comes out on the stage, you know, and fans

896
00:50:39,796 --> 00:50:43,916
Speaker 1: all there. Just imagine a six piece like the Clash

897
00:50:44,916 --> 00:51:01,156
Speaker 1: with more bancho. Ever since I was a young boy,

898
00:51:02,716 --> 00:51:08,556
Speaker 1: I had a wonderus. So I walked and crawled across

899
00:51:08,556 --> 00:51:12,996
Speaker 1: six eight lines by the time as in years old,

900
00:51:14,436 --> 00:51:19,476
Speaker 1: and landed in some corn field. They caught a town

901
00:51:19,516 --> 00:51:25,076
Speaker 1: on the groove, so I climbed up on that watertown. Man,

902
00:51:25,276 --> 00:51:30,596
Speaker 1: But the city was a dope show. And that's when

903
00:51:30,636 --> 00:51:35,116
Speaker 1: I spied you. And we didn't mind on that chuck

904
00:51:35,236 --> 00:51:40,276
Speaker 1: stop driving stives. We were teenage troop of dolls hopping

905
00:51:40,396 --> 00:51:44,276
Speaker 1: down box cars for a hell level one week round

906
00:51:46,156 --> 00:51:50,916
Speaker 1: it's death to whipple hass you by my friends are

907
00:51:50,916 --> 00:51:57,156
Speaker 1: scattered round. One of these days you would be babe,

908
00:51:57,476 --> 00:52:02,196
Speaker 1: We're gonna spell the whole bucket and paint this town.

909
00:52:04,956 --> 00:52:13,916
Speaker 1: Paint this time painted red white of glory, painted blue

910
00:52:14,036 --> 00:52:17,436
Speaker 1: for the cops tailing your old man Ford shimmy, A

911
00:52:17,596 --> 00:52:21,316
Speaker 1: found power lines and frinks from an archy signs that's

912
00:52:21,356 --> 00:52:26,756
Speaker 1: what you do when you're fifteen years old were painted

913
00:52:26,916 --> 00:52:31,956
Speaker 1: yellow for a warning they'll never take us a lie?

914
00:52:33,116 --> 00:52:36,436
Speaker 1: Are we given our hearts to? This is part break

915
00:52:36,716 --> 00:52:41,356
Speaker 1: City where far kids go to break. I all die well,

916
00:52:42,036 --> 00:52:47,356
Speaker 1: he's dustin wife has you by? My friends are scattered

917
00:52:47,476 --> 00:52:52,956
Speaker 1: a round one of the east days you would be bad.

918
00:52:53,556 --> 00:52:58,236
Speaker 1: We're gonna smell the whole bucket and pain't this time?

919
00:53:00,996 --> 00:53:23,476
Speaker 1: Pain't this sign? Now? The strain don't stop like it

920
00:53:23,796 --> 00:53:27,596
Speaker 1: used to in the same rist by more than a

921
00:53:27,716 --> 00:53:32,036
Speaker 1: mild still all these train upocket kids that grow up

922
00:53:32,116 --> 00:53:37,916
Speaker 1: thinking riss the place by will soon by? And you

923
00:53:38,036 --> 00:53:42,156
Speaker 1: and me, babe, we feed it away like the yive

924
00:53:42,196 --> 00:53:47,356
Speaker 1: book page butt and now all I god lift its

925
00:53:47,396 --> 00:53:51,276
Speaker 1: not heard under my finger? Day? Wouldn't we went digging

926
00:53:51,356 --> 00:53:55,596
Speaker 1: for gold? Oh well, it's just a why be hashed

927
00:53:55,676 --> 00:54:02,116
Speaker 1: you by cry by just fitting around turn One of

928
00:54:02,196 --> 00:54:06,156
Speaker 1: these days they just might flat your way baking fill

929
00:54:06,276 --> 00:54:17,276
Speaker 1: the hole, damn booking this time? Hey this hey, this

930
00:54:31,556 --> 00:54:35,196
Speaker 1: catch scar Jerry Pentecost, thank you so much, thanks for

931
00:54:35,316 --> 00:54:41,436
Speaker 1: having us. Thanks to Old Crows, Catch Sport and Jerry

932
00:54:41,476 --> 00:54:44,396
Speaker 1: Pentecost for playing the title track off their new album

933
00:54:44,596 --> 00:54:47,876
Speaker 1: Paint This Town, and for sharing their inspiration and stories

934
00:54:47,916 --> 00:54:51,276
Speaker 1: of us. You're our favorite Old Crow Medicine show songs.

935
00:54:51,476 --> 00:54:54,396
Speaker 1: Check out the playlist at broken Record podcast dot com.

936
00:54:55,196 --> 00:54:57,916
Speaker 1: Be sure to subscribe to our YouTube channel at YouTube

937
00:54:57,956 --> 00:55:00,996
Speaker 1: dot com slash Broken Record Podcast, where you can find

938
00:55:01,116 --> 00:55:03,876
Speaker 1: all of our new episodes. You can follow us on

939
00:55:03,916 --> 00:55:07,156
Speaker 1: Twitter at broken Record. Broken Record is produced help from

940
00:55:07,156 --> 00:55:10,636
Speaker 1: the a Rose, Jason Gambrel, Ben Holiday, Eric Sandler, and

941
00:55:10,796 --> 00:55:14,836
Speaker 1: Jennifer Sanchez, with engineering help from Nick Chafee. Our executive

942
00:55:14,836 --> 00:55:18,556
Speaker 1: producer is Mia Leve. Broken Record is a production of

943
00:55:18,676 --> 00:55:21,796
Speaker 1: Pushkin Industries. If you like this show and others from Pushkin,

944
00:55:21,916 --> 00:55:25,796
Speaker 1: consider subscribing to Pushkin Plus. Pushkin Plus is a podcast

945
00:55:25,836 --> 00:55:29,356
Speaker 1: subscription and that offers bonus content an uninterrupted ad free

946
00:55:29,396 --> 00:55:32,636
Speaker 1: listening for four ninety nine a month. Look for Pushkin

947
00:55:32,676 --> 00:55:36,236
Speaker 1: Plus on Apple Podcasts subscriptions, and if you'd like the show,

948
00:55:36,436 --> 00:55:38,756
Speaker 1: please remember to share, rate, and review us on your

949
00:55:38,796 --> 00:55:42,516
Speaker 1: podcast app or The musics by Kenny Beats. I'm justin Richmond.