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Speaker 1: Hey, this is Anny and Samantha and smoking to Stephen. Never

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Speaker 1: told you protection I heard it here.

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Speaker 2: And it is May seven, twenty twenty five. I feel

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Speaker 2: like we need to put a timestamp here as well

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Speaker 2: as content warning. We are going to talk about pregnancy

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Speaker 2: and postpartum depression. I don't think we go into too

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Speaker 2: much depth of like what causes Like we will talk

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Speaker 2: about like clinically what causes it and research based, but

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Speaker 2: we're not going to talk about like specific stories. But yeah,

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Speaker 2: you know, this might be really heavy topic, especially if

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Speaker 2: you're suffering through PPD or has just had a rough

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Speaker 2: time with pregnancy or any of those things. Content warning

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Speaker 2: because yes, Mother's Day is actually right around the corner,

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Speaker 2: and we thought we wanted we would do something like

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Speaker 2: topicala so for a very real episode about motherhood. Of

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Speaker 2: course we are not mothers, but one thing we know,

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Speaker 2: being a mom or a parent is work. Like I'm

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Speaker 2: sure rewarding work, and I've heard that from many of people,

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Speaker 2: is rewarding work, but work nonetheless, And we wanted to

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Speaker 2: say first, we see y'all and we know you are

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Speaker 2: doing amazing, even if you don't always feel like it.

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Speaker 2: Or for those who have had really hard experiences or

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Speaker 2: through a lot of disappointments or lost any of that.

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Speaker 2: We see you, acknowledge you, we love you. Happy Mother's Day.

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Speaker 2: And with that, it wouldn't be a true Minty episode

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Speaker 2: if we didn't have a bit of a too realistic

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Speaker 2: take on it. And I once again blame social media

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Speaker 2: for this. As I was minding my own dink business

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Speaker 2: and doom scrolling when a post popped up of a

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Speaker 2: new mom who was very honest and real with her

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Speaker 2: experience with post part depression and how it affected her

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Speaker 2: and her marriage. And I think it's just not just

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Speaker 2: postpartum depression, but just in general postpartum all the things.

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Speaker 2: Below it were so many comments talking about their similar

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Speaker 2: experiences and how it affected them as well, and many

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Speaker 2: of them just thanking her so in her post, Serena

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Speaker 2: Kassar Kaser, I'm so sorry if I've just said this wrong,

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Speaker 2: says postpartum was being hard. Motherhood changed me in the

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Speaker 2: best ways, but also the worst when it comes to

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Speaker 2: being a partner. I stopped being the woman he fell

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Speaker 2: in love with. And below we wanted to read off

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Speaker 2: some of the comments. One of them said, I don't

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Speaker 2: even remember the person I was before I had my children.

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Speaker 2: Another said this is exactly what I went through. I

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Speaker 2: also felt hate towards him because it seemed like his

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Speaker 2: life continued and mine stopped. Some others said postpartum mentally

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Speaker 2: and emotionally changed me as a person. I was always

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Speaker 2: angry and sad for no reason. Thankfully, my husband understands

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Speaker 2: and has been the reason I haven't fallen off the ledge.

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Speaker 2: It's hard, I said, is so hard? Then the added

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Speaker 2: financial strain is just so much some days. And then

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Speaker 2: another one said, postpartum changed me. I hardly recognize the

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Speaker 2: woman I see in the mirror. I feel overtouched by

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Speaker 2: my babies that I don't even want him to be

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Speaker 2: close to me, but I miss him. So they're all

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Speaker 2: over like fifteen hundred comments Anny, fifteen hundred, all stretching

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Speaker 2: from completely understanding and then also not feeling alone knowing

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Speaker 2: that they're not the only ones going through this, from

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Speaker 2: people giving advice on how to navigate this type of

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Speaker 2: space and time, and several others who have stated this

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Speaker 2: being part of the reason that they chose not to

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Speaker 2: have children. I feel like that might have been an

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Speaker 2: inappropriate for that post, maybe, But as the people who

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Speaker 2: don't have children, who chose not to have children. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: that part for me was really real. I was like,

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Speaker 2: oh damn. And I say this also as a nanny,

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Speaker 2: like I technically raise kids. They weren't my kids, so

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Speaker 2: I had a separation. I love them dearly, but they

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Speaker 2: still weren't my kids. They weren't calling me mom. I was.

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Speaker 2: You know, I didn't birth them, and I didn't have

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Speaker 2: the hormonal changes that happened when you birth children.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. Well yes. And I would just like to say

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Speaker 1: some people have written into us about this. This is

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Speaker 1: kind of encapsulating the plot of the movie Night. Hmm.

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Speaker 1: It's like a lot of these comments are very specific

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Speaker 1: two things that come up in that movie. So clearly

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Speaker 1: something is going on.

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Speaker 2: Right now, and there's so many takes we could go

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Speaker 2: with this this specific post. We could talk about the

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Speaker 2: absent dads who are like, what's wrong with you? You know,

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Speaker 2: why can't you why don't you want to be close

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Speaker 2: to me, Let's have sex. You just had a baby.

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Speaker 2: It's not a big deal those guys, to the guys

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Speaker 2: who really have stepped up and especially and again this

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Speaker 2: is very heteronormative. She was talking in perspective of her

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Speaker 2: own relationship with her husband. But they, like, you know,

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Speaker 2: those who have stepped up and understand are trying to

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Speaker 2: give them space. I've seen more posts recently of men

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Speaker 2: talking about how they love their wives and they understand

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Speaker 2: what they're going through and they're going to do their

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Speaker 2: damndest to make sure they know that their wives understand

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Speaker 2: that they are there for them. Like, so like you

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Speaker 2: have like these both of these scenarios. You had several

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Speaker 2: people going there talking about yep, and that's why we

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Speaker 2: got divorced, And I was like, well, you know, okay,

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Speaker 2: reality took and yeah, so we could talk about that,

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Speaker 2: the relationship part. We could also talk about the parts,

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Speaker 2: you know, we kind of did with the whole weaponize

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Speaker 2: and competence that could play into being part of this.

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Speaker 2: I just saw someone talking about the study in which

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Speaker 2: it says women should actually have like are recommended to

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Speaker 2: have ten hours of sleep because of the way their

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Speaker 2: body processes, and that a lot of like people who

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Speaker 2: have just had pet babies. I think one pediatrician had

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Speaker 2: told the couple that the dad specifically be like, you

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Speaker 2: need to be the ones unless she has to feed.

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Speaker 2: You need to wake up because you can function, she cannot.

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Speaker 2: Like it was like I was like, oh I like that, Dike. Okay,

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Speaker 2: if this was happening, maybe more babies would be born. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: you know, just saying but again, the world sucks. So

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Speaker 2: there's all the we could take that issue, but we're not.

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Speaker 2: So there's a lot of avenues we could have gone

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Speaker 2: down this, but we did want to specifically talk about

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Speaker 2: postpartum depression and the related mental health needs specifically here,

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Speaker 2: especially with the pandemic with COVID and how that really

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Speaker 2: really brought to light some of the knees and how

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Speaker 2: that exacerbated this situation specifically. So partum depression and related

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Speaker 2: mental health needs has always been a thing, like I said,

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Speaker 2: not surprising. Again, for the most part, it's been largely

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Speaker 2: ignored or pushed aside, even given a cutesy name, you know,

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Speaker 2: passive name like the baby Blues, which I find really irritating,

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Speaker 2: and I have a feeling like some people probably appreciate

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Speaker 2: it because they don't want to make it a big thing,

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Speaker 2: but a lot of other people are like, what the

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Speaker 2: hell that's really insulting anyway. Of course, for the most part,

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Speaker 2: the more common temporary filling sadness due to hormonal changes

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Speaker 2: after birth is what they're referencing, especially in the professional world.

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Speaker 2: They're not trying to be condescending, although it still feels

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Speaker 2: like it's condescending, and they're talking about like the temporary stage,

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Speaker 2: which usually phades away within three weeks, but that term

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Speaker 2: has been interchange with people suffering from postpartum depression, which

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Speaker 2: can last for years, and even psychosis, which is the

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Speaker 2: whole other conversation that we're not getting into specifically in

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Speaker 2: this episode. There's a lot we could talk about, obviously,

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Speaker 2: but as more and more families and people actually talk

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Speaker 2: about it as a need within the mental health field,

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Speaker 2: more people are recognizing the severity of it, and a

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Speaker 2: bit of information about what we're talking about from frontiersand

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Speaker 2: dot org. They say, after giving birth, women undergo significant

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Speaker 2: hormonal changes that can heavily impact their mental health. These

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Speaker 2: changes may worsen existing psychological conditions or lead to specific

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Speaker 2: disorders such as postpartum depression PPD. This period is recognized

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Speaker 2: at a time of profound depression starting during pregnancy. So

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Speaker 2: in twenty sixteen, Columbia University actually did do a study

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Speaker 2: about some preventative measures and more and more studies have

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Speaker 2: been published about why preventative measures as well as possible

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Speaker 2: treatments are needed. But in a country that doesn't value

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Speaker 2: people who get pregnant again as real people or want

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Speaker 2: to help them, or care about them, or want to

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Speaker 2: give them five thousand dollars to have a baby because

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Speaker 2: that'll solve it easy, it's not surprising to see that

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Speaker 2: they actually don't put any of these great research into practice.

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Speaker 2: This is from Time dot com. May tell e y'all

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Speaker 2: and a bridget Fryheart, and I really am sorry if

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Speaker 2: I bridges y'all name. I don't know if anybody connected

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Speaker 2: with them. Lessons y'all want to correct this, because you

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Speaker 2: know that's just a caveat throughout this whole thing. We're

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Speaker 2: talking a lot. We got a lot of information from

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Speaker 2: a lot of different So then there are two psychiatrists

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Speaker 2: and researchers who wrote this and they said, research like

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Speaker 2: this suggests that there's much more we can do to

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Speaker 2: prepare new mothers from the transition to parenthood, but we're not.

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Speaker 2: In the US, there's a striking gap in the time

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Speaker 2: and resources allocated towards pregnancy versus the postpartum period. While

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Speaker 2: a woman might visit her OBGI in ten to fifteen

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Speaker 2: times during pregnancy, she typically only visits once during the

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Speaker 2: postpartum period, and while it's commonplace for an expectant mother

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Speaker 2: to take birth education class, it is virtually unheard of

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Speaker 2: for her to receive postpartum education.

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Speaker 1: And even though al and Freihart semore normalized contexts for

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Speaker 1: postpartum it isn't helping in the actual treatment or preventative measures.

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Speaker 1: They continue in their article quote for early intervention. Few

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Speaker 1: examples are more relevant than postpartum thyroiditis, which occurs when

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Speaker 1: the immune system mistakenly attacks the thyroid gland, causing it

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Speaker 1: to be inflamed. This condition, developed by five percent of

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Speaker 1: w women, can be effectively treated with medication if recognized early. However,

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Speaker 1: it often goes undiagnosed because patients assume that the symptoms

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Speaker 1: unwanted weight loss or gain, fatigue, and anxiety are all

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Speaker 1: part of the normal postpartum struggle, rather than a treatable issue.

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Speaker 1: This assumption often gets reinforced by medical doctors, who may

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Speaker 1: tell new moms that their symptoms are just part of

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Speaker 1: what happens. The result of delaying treatment is not inconsequential

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Speaker 1: for approximately twenty percent of diagnosed patients, the condition is permanent.

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Speaker 1: In a cultural and medical landscape that views postpartum hardship

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Speaker 1: as normal as an inescapable predetermined outcome, doing more to

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Speaker 1: prepare for postpartum seems like a moot point. It's no

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Speaker 1: surprise that eighty eight percent of women feel unprepared to

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Speaker 1: navigate this period. With more than a third of new

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Speaker 1: mothers developing a lasting health issue after giving birth and

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Speaker 1: over forty percent of new mothers developing a pelvic floor disorder,

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Speaker 1: these numbers are not an inevitability. They're an institutional failure.

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Speaker 2: There's so much I have a feeling I'm going to

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Speaker 2: just pause in between all of those because it's just

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Speaker 2: it's just exhausting and infuriating that this is. Yes, these

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Speaker 2: are things that we should be looking at. And the

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Speaker 2: fact that when we're going to talk about later some

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Speaker 2: of like actual treatment like medication and such, which not

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Speaker 2: everything can be has to be medicated, I'm not saying that,

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Speaker 2: but like research enough didn't come until twenty nineteen nineteen anyway.

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Speaker 2: So yeah, and this failure has actually cost lives. Oh,

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Speaker 2: we love such a pro birthplace, don't wait. So here's

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Speaker 2: a bit from a recent Guardian article titled Becoming a

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Speaker 2: mother was Impossibly hard during COVID and has anything changed?

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Speaker 2: And this is by Maggie Doherty. She writes, the CDC

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Speaker 2: recently reported that eighty percent of US pregnancy related deaths

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Speaker 2: are preventable, with one in four maternal deaths stemming from

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Speaker 2: mental health, including suicide or substance abuse overdosed. Historically, postpartum

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Speaker 2: depression has been undertreated, despite a decade long pushed by

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Speaker 2: doctors and public health officials to create screening and adequate

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Speaker 2: treatment measures. To say it is a failure feels like

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Speaker 2: an understatement, like it's tragedy. And that feels like condescending,

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Speaker 2: Like there's so many things. It feels criminal. It feels criminal,

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Speaker 2: especially what we know with the fact and I haven't

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Speaker 2: talked about this yet, but you've talked a little bit

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Speaker 2: about this yet, that things like the banning of DEI,

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Speaker 2: any of that from the CDC and research facilities includes

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Speaker 2: research like this. And because it says women, yeah, because

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Speaker 2: for them, like and we know that it's not just

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Speaker 2: women getting pregnant where we typically say pregnant people, but

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Speaker 2: because it was geared towards with the word women in

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Speaker 2: there or female or any of that. That was enough.

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Speaker 2: That was enough to say it's too woke, so woke.

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Speaker 2: Oh no, people giving birth so woke? Yet they want

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Speaker 2: us to give birth, Yes.

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Speaker 1: But only in the way they.

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Speaker 2: Want, right and after that, screw you if you die,

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Speaker 2: too bad for you. And with this, Fela, this is

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Speaker 2: still like becoming more normal. It's a conversation about PbD,

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Speaker 2: and Kristen and Caroline actually touched onto the subject and

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Speaker 2: other mental needs for the pregnant person on their episode

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Speaker 2: Maternal Mental Health, So you know there's a preview of that.

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Speaker 2: But this was all that was twenty sixteen, So even

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Speaker 2: though it wasn't that long ago, it was a long ago. Yeah. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: I will say most of the conversation or research that

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Speaker 2: we have been looking at started it in twenty twenty.

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Speaker 2: So all of that just as a note. But it

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Speaker 2: is still not being given the correct attention, and things

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Speaker 2: like the recent pandemic has exacerbated this issue. So we're

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Speaker 2: going to take a minute, or this entire episode look

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Speaker 2: at how PbD has been affected by the pandemic and

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Speaker 2: the handling of pregnancy in general by the US at

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Speaker 2: this time. So let's take a look at what has

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Speaker 2: changed during and after the pandemic for pregnant people in general.

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Speaker 2: The overall impact of the healthcare system when we talked

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Speaker 2: about this so much at the time, was severe, and

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Speaker 2: care for the pregnant patients hit hard, really hard. Here's

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Speaker 2: something from the research analysis by Lisette Sala, Sharon Canleiny,

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Speaker 2: Cheryl Matheson, Seanna Combs, and Beth Dickerson titled this is

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Speaker 2: Not what I had imagined motherhood would look like Pregnancy,

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Speaker 2: postpartum and parenting during COVID nineteen, a qualitative analysis of

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Speaker 2: the first year since birth so quote. The pandemic had

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Speaker 2: a devastating impact on the maternal healthcare system across the nation,

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Speaker 2: with three out of five patients experiencing modified or canceled appointments. Additionally,

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Speaker 2: patients experienced wide variation in hospital visitor policy, alterations in

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Speaker 2: their birth plan, unnecessary ob stetric interventions, inadequate postpartum and

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Speaker 2: breastfaiting support, and early discharged from the hospital. Women were

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Speaker 2: ushered out of the hospital quickly to avoid potential exposure,

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Speaker 2: increasing their likelihood of experiencing a negative postpartum outcome.

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Speaker 1: On top of the difficulties at the hospitals and offices.

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Speaker 1: Having limited support from their community also was a big issue.

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Speaker 1: More from that research quote COVID nineteen, directed quarantines and

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Speaker 1: social isolation caused women to forego those people they rely

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Speaker 1: on for help and instead navigate postpartum alone. Support offered

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Speaker 1: by family and friends, both physically and emotionally, termed instrumental support,

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Speaker 1: is important to mothers as they recover and access a

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Speaker 1: buffer for anxiety and depression.

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Speaker 2: I mean, I think that's an age old saying, you know,

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Speaker 2: it takes a village and that stars before birth, and

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Speaker 2: I could not imagine and not having that kind of support.

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Speaker 2: Of course, we've also heard the nightmares of like, do

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Speaker 2: you have too much support? We don't need all that either.

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Speaker 1: The unwanted support, okay.

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Speaker 2: And that is something that also we're not going to

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Speaker 2: get into. But that was some of the positive. They

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Speaker 2: were like, but at the same time, we had an

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Speaker 2: excuse not to see the people we didn't want to see, right,

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Speaker 2: So you know, it wasn't all bad. Again, as the introvert, like,

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Speaker 2: there's a lot of things that I was like, Oh,

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Speaker 2: this is gonna be bad for me, but also great

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Speaker 2: for me. I think this kind of sits in that too.

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Speaker 2: And according to another research document from the BMC Pregnancy

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Speaker 2: and Childbirth dot Biomedicentral dot com titled Pregnant and Postpartum

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Speaker 2: Women's Experience of the Indirect impacts of COVID nineteen pandemic

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Speaker 2: and high income Countries a Qualitative Evidence Synthesis, they write,

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Speaker 2: in many countries, pregnant women were encouraged to homestay at home,

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Speaker 2: receive care through telehealth rather than face to face, and

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Speaker 2: reduce face to face education. Isolation from family, friends and

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Speaker 2: peers has negatively impacted women's mental health with increased levels

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Speaker 2: of anxiety, depression, and stress globally. And again, I feel

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Speaker 2: like that's an obvious when we talked about the pandemic

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Speaker 2: that we've all seen that we've all talked about that,

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Speaker 2: but having that on top of pregnancy hormones, on top

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Speaker 2: of god knows like financials, instabilities, if your family's not

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Speaker 2: doing well, like there's so many things. Because we also

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Speaker 2: know it's a risky time for a lot of pregnant

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Speaker 2: people because they can be murdered by their partners. Ooh,

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Speaker 2: you know, we got so many added pressures. And again

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Speaker 2: with all of that, it isn't surprising to note that

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Speaker 2: the percentage of people with postpartum depression went up. So

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Speaker 2: from Michigan Medicine dot Org, Beta Mostafavi and Laura Bailey

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Speaker 2: wrote in twenty twenty two, one in three new people

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Speaker 2: who had babies in the beginning of the pandemic experience

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Speaker 2: postpartum depression, potentially triple pre pandemic levels, while one in

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Speaker 2: five had major depressive symptoms, according to research led by

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Speaker 2: the University of Michigan School of Nursing and Michigan Medicine SO.

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Speaker 2: A separate study from the same UM team also found

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Speaker 2: that those who gave birth during the first six months

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Speaker 2: of COVID nineteen reported more distress and anxiety.

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Speaker 1: And in their article Doctors and Experts talk about this increase.

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Speaker 1: Quote even before COVID, we were seeing an increasing number

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Speaker 1: of women with mood and anxiety disorders around the time

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Speaker 1: of pregnancy, including postpartum depression, said Vanessa Dalton, MD and

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Speaker 1: pH and Obstetratrician, gynecologists at University of Michigan Health Vaughn

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Speaker 1: Voidlander Women's Hospital and senior author on both studies. Then

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Speaker 1: we there in COVID a time when many of us

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Speaker 1: who were taking care of pregnant women had to prioritize

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Speaker 1: reducing transmission of the virus. She added, we are starting

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Speaker 1: to understand the potential consequences these measures had on moms

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Speaker 1: in terms of isolation and mom's mental health.

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Speaker 2: Right, and that study from Michigan has really been a

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Speaker 2: big point for a lot of other researchers as well

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Speaker 2: as a lot of news articles. The Guardian really focuses

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Speaker 2: on some of the findings that they had because again,

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Speaker 2: like getting this research about a pain about a lockdown

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Speaker 2: was so important, especially when we're talking about postpartum depression,

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Speaker 2: because no one's actually prioritizing postpartum depression, like we're just

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Speaker 2: now trying to survive pregnancy. Yeah, you know so, But

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Speaker 2: this is that conversation. We have to have it there.

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Speaker 2: If we're going to talk about having children, if we're

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Speaker 2: going to talk about birth, birthing babies, we need to

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Speaker 2: talk about maternal health. We have to talk about that

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Speaker 2: as a whole. It should be all in one yep.

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Speaker 2: Should it should be. And here's some more information. According

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Speaker 2: to the previously mentioned Guardian article by Doherty, she writes

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Speaker 2: doctor Clayton Schuman, Associate professor at the University of Michigan

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Speaker 2: School of Nursing and the lead author of two studies

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Speaker 2: on the increased rate of post part of depression PTSD

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Speaker 2: symptoms during the first year of COVID, said that although

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Speaker 2: the US was starting to do better at removing stigma

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Speaker 2: for mental health, quote, we have not really moved the

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Speaker 2: needle much when it comes to perinatal mental health. Part

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Speaker 2: of that has to do with the fact that peri

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Speaker 2: natal illness is predominantly within the realm of women's health.

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Speaker 2: And we know that if we're going to say women's self,

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Speaker 2: that's going to be downgraded as a concern.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, we don't care.

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Speaker 2: It's okay. Are they having a baby? Are they going

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Speaker 2: to birthday? Great? In the story, so, the article continued

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Speaker 2: to say, women's health has long been suffering the consequences

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Speaker 2: of institutionalized medical sexism, which has led to diminished positive

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Speaker 2: medical outcomes for women. The pandemic exacerbated these conditions to

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Speaker 2: a critical level, with triple the level of postpartum depression

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Speaker 2: and anxiety rates. A University of Michigan study found that

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Speaker 2: a fifth of the women experiencing postpartum depression reported thoughts

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Speaker 2: of self harm, suicidal ideation, and self harm were already

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Speaker 2: on the rise in perinatal women before the pandemic.

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Speaker 1: And she continues writing quote at the height of the pandemic,

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Speaker 1: women found that every aspect of their birth experience was altered. This,

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Speaker 1: combined with the stress, isolation, and uncertainty of the pandemic,

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Speaker 1: has led researchers such as Shame to advocate for an

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Speaker 1: immediate and robust change to women's reproductive and mental health care.

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Speaker 2: It's like, why can't we have him as like our

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Speaker 2: health represented secretary of health.

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Speaker 1: Wow, you can't have nice things. I'm not but that's

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Speaker 1: how it is.

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Speaker 2: And here we want to pause to say most of

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Speaker 2: the research just shows that those who were a part

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Speaker 2: of the research were pretty clear and they knew that

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Speaker 2: they were suffering through a mental health crisis doing their pregnancy,

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Speaker 2: and they knew that if they were suffering from postpartum,

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Speaker 2: which I feel like is something that we have gotten

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Speaker 2: better at vocalizing we as women but like people. I'm

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Speaker 2: not pregnant, but I think pregnant people and like those

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Speaker 2: in motherhood, those are in parenthood have gotten better in

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Speaker 2: trying to acknowledge these are the rough parts of my

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Speaker 2: pregnancy or having children as much as we wanted this,

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Speaker 2: we plan for this, or we didn't, but we're happy

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Speaker 2: any of those conversations gotten better and recognizing where they are.

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Speaker 2: Like mental health wise, I feel like we've always talked

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Speaker 2: about that when they measure themselves, they're a little at better. Uh,

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Speaker 2: those who like people who get pregnant and such are

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Speaker 2: better at reading themselves anyway. So I didn't demographics, you know,

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Speaker 2: I think that that's to be noted. And again, like

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Speaker 2: in this research, as they were taking majority of the

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Speaker 2: surveys or any of the questionnaires, they were very upfront

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Speaker 2: in this conversation and back to that this is not

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Speaker 2: what I imagine motherhood would look like. Research paper, they

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Speaker 2: write women who gave birth during the pandemic recognize that

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Speaker 2: the situation led to an amplification of new mother typical emotions. Generally,

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Speaker 2: many postpartum women express feelings of fear, anxiety, exhaustion, and

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Speaker 2: of being overwhelmed. While these emotional states are the expected

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Speaker 2: norm after giving birth, childbirth during a pandemic meant women

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Speaker 2: spent their postpartum time at home, isolated with their newborn. Therefore,

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Speaker 2: there was an amplification of typical emotions that would usually

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Speaker 2: be assimilated through interactions with other postpartum women during mother's

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Speaker 2: day outgroups or social gatherings. Due to the lockdown, women

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Speaker 2: had few ways to normalize their feelings through debriefing during

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Speaker 2: social groupings. Most participants experienced a loss of physical and

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Speaker 2: emotional support from family and friends, leaving them to rely

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Speaker 2: on their spouse or the family living in the same home.

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Speaker 2: They expressed a need for help navigating the common postpartum

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Speaker 2: emotional highs and lows. Furthermore, the education and healthier access

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Speaker 2: interrupted or canceled due to COVID nineteen, women were unable

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Speaker 2: to assess if their individualized experiences and feelings were typical.

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Speaker 2: Amplification of new motherhood typical emotions was illustrated with two

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Speaker 2: sub themes, positive emotional experience and negative emotional experience, which

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Speaker 2: we're going to talk about and yeah, so they had

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Speaker 2: both the positive and the negative for example. Quote. Some

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Speaker 2: of the participants reported that caused them to reevaluate the

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Speaker 2: importance of different aspects of their lives. They were able

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Speaker 2: to find gratitude for the special time they had with

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Speaker 2: their newborn and family quote. It also provided me in

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Speaker 2: my spouse extra time with our baby that wouldn't have

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Speaker 2: had outside of these circumstances. So there's that. Other women

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Speaker 2: quote found strength in themselves despite isolation and identified their

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Speaker 2: capabilities as a new mother. Lacking outside support people or

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Speaker 2: access to resources, women gained a deeper insight into what

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Speaker 2: they were capable of doing for their newborn and family.

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Speaker 1: And they went on noting when reflecting on their childbirth experience,

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Speaker 1: significant others were often allowed to be present for birth

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Speaker 1: and were the sole supportive person present once women were

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Speaker 1: discharged home. Several participants mentioned enjoying the special time spent

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Speaker 1: as a newly formed family. One participant expressed feeling like

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Speaker 1: a stronger couple after childbirth, post hardum and parenting together

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Speaker 1: with only their spouse for comfort and strength.

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Speaker 2: Again, though with all of that, which is fantastic, because

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Speaker 2: we don't want to glaze over that, because we know

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Speaker 2: that that in itself is amazing, but there are still

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Speaker 2: negatives to this as well. Here's more. The majority of

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Speaker 2: women stated they had felt a heightened sense of negative emotions,

431
00:25:12,320 --> 00:25:15,960
Speaker 2: including fear, anxiety, isolation, and depression when I could Conventional

432
00:25:16,000 --> 00:25:19,480
Speaker 2: access to healthcare providers due to modified appointments resulted in

433
00:25:19,520 --> 00:25:22,920
Speaker 2: women feeling a greater fear and anxiety. Regarding COVID nineteen,

434
00:25:23,560 --> 00:25:26,040
Speaker 2: one of the comments they had was it made us

435
00:25:26,080 --> 00:25:28,600
Speaker 2: even more isolated than we would have been with a newborn,

436
00:25:28,640 --> 00:25:33,159
Speaker 2: and anxiety was paralyzing. We still feel the effects. And

437
00:25:33,200 --> 00:25:37,560
Speaker 2: I remembered any that I was Actually I worked with

438
00:25:37,920 --> 00:25:40,639
Speaker 2: families first, for like, I volunteered with families first when

439
00:25:40,640 --> 00:25:43,119
Speaker 2: I was unemployed for like a split second, which actually

440
00:25:43,440 --> 00:25:46,600
Speaker 2: reach us out to new parents to see how they're doing,

441
00:25:46,920 --> 00:25:50,320
Speaker 2: like as an untrained individual who just volunteers, and I

442
00:25:50,400 --> 00:25:52,480
Speaker 2: was like making sure you're okay, are you coming into

443
00:25:52,480 --> 00:25:55,159
Speaker 2: your appointments? When's your appointment? Like I did that. I

444
00:25:55,240 --> 00:25:57,840
Speaker 2: believe they slashed and it was free, by the way, free,

445
00:25:57,920 --> 00:25:59,879
Speaker 2: but they still slashed the funding and so there was

446
00:26:00,080 --> 00:26:01,040
Speaker 2: less volunteers.

447
00:26:03,680 --> 00:26:06,280
Speaker 1: Hey, yep, that sounds about right.

448
00:26:06,440 --> 00:26:10,840
Speaker 2: You would think that was something like they just had volunteers,

449
00:26:10,960 --> 00:26:13,240
Speaker 2: which probably was a problem they shouldn't have. They probably

450
00:26:13,240 --> 00:26:17,600
Speaker 2: should have gelselers. Anyway, moving on, do back to those examples.

451
00:26:17,800 --> 00:26:20,639
Speaker 2: Another woman say that quote COVID has created an environment

452
00:26:20,680 --> 00:26:24,280
Speaker 2: where fear is front and center. Trying to navigate that well.

453
00:26:24,560 --> 00:26:27,000
Speaker 2: Being smart but not controlled by fear is tough, and

454
00:26:27,080 --> 00:26:29,000
Speaker 2: again This all has to do with also the same

455
00:26:29,040 --> 00:26:32,480
Speaker 2: conversation about lacking support during that time, not being able

456
00:26:32,480 --> 00:26:35,040
Speaker 2: to just have people come over, being fearful of any

457
00:26:35,080 --> 00:26:38,160
Speaker 2: of the sicknesses, like, oh, man, I don't know how.

458
00:26:38,400 --> 00:26:40,320
Speaker 2: I don't think most people have forgotten, but there are

459
00:26:40,359 --> 00:26:42,280
Speaker 2: still the moments of like, man, that was bad when

460
00:26:42,320 --> 00:26:47,639
Speaker 2: we were paralyzing, fear wearing masks just to step outside

461
00:26:47,680 --> 00:26:50,120
Speaker 2: of the house, not going anywhere outside of the house,

462
00:26:50,200 --> 00:26:52,120
Speaker 2: and spraying everything down.

463
00:26:53,200 --> 00:26:54,960
Speaker 1: Yeah, I cried.

464
00:26:55,280 --> 00:26:57,000
Speaker 2: I can't imagine that with a newborn.

465
00:26:59,000 --> 00:27:00,679
Speaker 1: I can't either, because I feel like when you have

466
00:27:00,720 --> 00:27:04,080
Speaker 1: a newborn again, neither has our parents. But I've even

467
00:27:04,080 --> 00:27:06,159
Speaker 1: felt this with newborns I've been around. I'm like, oh,

468
00:27:06,440 --> 00:27:08,960
Speaker 1: what if they accidentally eat something, or if you do this,

469
00:27:09,200 --> 00:27:13,040
Speaker 1: or like it's just you're constantly on of Like what

470
00:27:13,080 --> 00:27:16,000
Speaker 1: if I turn away for one second, Yeah, they do something,

471
00:27:16,040 --> 00:27:19,119
Speaker 1: and then you have COVID come in and COVID you

472
00:27:19,200 --> 00:27:19,760
Speaker 1: don't know that.

473
00:27:19,720 --> 00:27:22,720
Speaker 2: It makes a little more realistic. You don't you didn't know?

474
00:27:23,000 --> 00:27:26,560
Speaker 2: And what's so like? I also stumbled upon another why

475
00:27:26,560 --> 00:27:28,879
Speaker 2: am my own parent TikTok? I don't know, but another

476
00:27:28,960 --> 00:27:32,240
Speaker 2: TikTok in which they were talking about having an experience

477
00:27:32,240 --> 00:27:34,159
Speaker 2: where it was like an almost death experience for the

478
00:27:34,320 --> 00:27:36,800
Speaker 2: like what they saw their child that was drowned, or

479
00:27:36,920 --> 00:27:38,879
Speaker 2: having to like get them through the high leg. But

480
00:27:39,000 --> 00:27:42,119
Speaker 2: that never leaves them. They have another trauma that they like,

481
00:27:42,160 --> 00:27:46,520
Speaker 2: they're so triggered now because they experienced the possibly losing

482
00:27:47,760 --> 00:27:50,800
Speaker 2: their child that they are now hyper focused. And then

483
00:27:50,840 --> 00:27:52,960
Speaker 2: I also had that experience where I had friends whose

484
00:27:53,240 --> 00:27:57,080
Speaker 2: family feared that and put so much trauma onto them.

485
00:27:58,119 --> 00:27:59,199
Speaker 2: They were fearful of that.

486
00:27:59,440 --> 00:28:04,600
Speaker 1: You had that, right, Yeah, I have a friend whose

487
00:28:04,640 --> 00:28:08,919
Speaker 1: family is they did have a tragedy in the family. Yeah,

488
00:28:09,160 --> 00:28:15,480
Speaker 1: And then after that, understandably, they became very very concerned

489
00:28:15,640 --> 00:28:21,840
Speaker 1: and kind of in my friend's experience, overbearing. And it's

490
00:28:21,880 --> 00:28:24,320
Speaker 1: just it's one of those really painful things because you

491
00:28:24,320 --> 00:28:26,640
Speaker 1: get where they're coming from and get where she come from,

492
00:28:26,680 --> 00:28:28,600
Speaker 1: and it's just like a really painful.

493
00:28:28,960 --> 00:28:32,320
Speaker 2: Experience, especially now that we're adulthood and like we could

494
00:28:32,320 --> 00:28:34,960
Speaker 2: have children and we have like family friends who have

495
00:28:35,040 --> 00:28:37,080
Speaker 2: children or are like we have nieces or nephews. I'm like,

496
00:28:37,160 --> 00:28:40,480
Speaker 2: we still we were like, oh lord, yeah, that's less real,

497
00:28:41,240 --> 00:28:43,960
Speaker 2: and I could imagine and then having COVID which actually

498
00:28:44,040 --> 00:28:47,880
Speaker 2: was killing people without and there was really no understanding

499
00:28:47,880 --> 00:28:52,000
Speaker 2: at the time at the beginning of this. Oh yeah,

500
00:28:52,040 --> 00:28:59,000
Speaker 2: I'm panic just thinking about it. Parents. Yes, speed got speed.

501
00:29:00,560 --> 00:29:03,840
Speaker 2: So yeah. As one woman from that social media post

502
00:29:03,960 --> 00:29:07,680
Speaker 2: which inspired this episode actually talked about the financial impact

503
00:29:08,440 --> 00:29:11,160
Speaker 2: that really was a burden for them. From that same

504
00:29:11,200 --> 00:29:14,320
Speaker 2: research paper, they write COVID nineteen impacted women and their

505
00:29:14,320 --> 00:29:18,280
Speaker 2: families financially through lost jobs and wages, increased prices on

506
00:29:18,320 --> 00:29:21,920
Speaker 2: household items, and costly testing and treatment for illness, And

507
00:29:21,960 --> 00:29:24,560
Speaker 2: they continue participants saw an increase in the need to

508
00:29:24,560 --> 00:29:27,960
Speaker 2: focus on schooling and childcare in the home. COVID nineteen

509
00:29:28,040 --> 00:29:31,600
Speaker 2: created competing roles for mothers, including caregiver, teacher of their children,

510
00:29:31,840 --> 00:29:34,880
Speaker 2: and diligent virtual employee. With a lack of childcare and

511
00:29:35,040 --> 00:29:38,000
Speaker 2: increased fear of COVID nineteen transmission, some women had to

512
00:29:38,000 --> 00:29:40,880
Speaker 2: make a choice between parenting and working. Women are often

513
00:29:40,880 --> 00:29:45,160
Speaker 2: fulfilling many roles, all while recovering from childbirth and bonding

514
00:29:45,200 --> 00:29:47,840
Speaker 2: with their newborn. Now we had a huge I think

515
00:29:47,840 --> 00:29:53,080
Speaker 2: we've had several Monday minis about this, specifically about mothers

516
00:29:53,080 --> 00:29:56,040
Speaker 2: coming back to work and having to navigate the space

517
00:29:56,080 --> 00:30:00,640
Speaker 2: of being now a teacher, a babysitter, a parent, a wife,

518
00:30:01,200 --> 00:30:03,520
Speaker 2: like all of those things, and how that actually hurt

519
00:30:03,560 --> 00:30:05,640
Speaker 2: them even though they were doing it all from home

520
00:30:07,000 --> 00:30:08,840
Speaker 2: and they're supposed to have a partner, but the partner

521
00:30:09,440 --> 00:30:11,280
Speaker 2: oftentimes were not helpful.

522
00:30:12,000 --> 00:30:14,320
Speaker 1: Or not as much as they should have been at rest.

523
00:30:14,600 --> 00:30:19,520
Speaker 2: Yeah, like the balance was real, real wonkish, and the

524
00:30:19,560 --> 00:30:23,240
Speaker 2: amount of time they had to not only spend caretaking,

525
00:30:23,280 --> 00:30:25,719
Speaker 2: but the amount of planning. And we talked about that

526
00:30:25,960 --> 00:30:28,480
Speaker 2: as well throughout the day for new parents going through

527
00:30:28,480 --> 00:30:32,080
Speaker 2: this learning curve without as many supportive networks that happened

528
00:30:32,120 --> 00:30:35,040
Speaker 2: pre pandemic. So you have all of these things, including

529
00:30:35,080 --> 00:30:36,600
Speaker 2: the fact that you had to plan in dinners and

530
00:30:36,640 --> 00:30:40,440
Speaker 2: then plan bedtimes and plan bath times, and plan homework

531
00:30:40,520 --> 00:30:44,960
Speaker 2: and plan outdoor activities, trying to social life, and then

532
00:30:45,040 --> 00:30:49,360
Speaker 2: the whole like push to be non iPad parents. And

533
00:30:49,400 --> 00:30:54,680
Speaker 2: I'm like, take that iPad and watch it. I'm just

534
00:30:54,760 --> 00:30:56,520
Speaker 2: kidding you do you If you can do that, that's amazing,

535
00:30:56,840 --> 00:30:57,600
Speaker 2: that's amazing.

536
00:30:58,720 --> 00:31:00,560
Speaker 1: I feel like at the beginning of the pandemic too,

537
00:31:00,600 --> 00:31:04,920
Speaker 1: we were all we were much more energetic at our efforts.

538
00:31:05,560 --> 00:31:07,520
Speaker 1: And so I remember I had some friends, we had kids,

539
00:31:07,560 --> 00:31:11,959
Speaker 1: and they were doing like the bubble hangouts. Yeah, but

540
00:31:12,120 --> 00:31:14,880
Speaker 1: it just sounded like so much work. It's different than

541
00:31:14,880 --> 00:31:18,240
Speaker 1: what you and I did. It was like a whole ordeal,

542
00:31:18,560 --> 00:31:21,520
Speaker 1: and I was just saying, oh geez, And those bubble

543
00:31:21,560 --> 00:31:24,000
Speaker 1: hangouts fell off pretty quick. But because you know, you

544
00:31:24,040 --> 00:31:27,120
Speaker 1: wanted the children, not necessarily babies, but they wanted the

545
00:31:27,200 --> 00:31:30,680
Speaker 1: kids to have this interaction, and it was just too

546
00:31:30,760 --> 00:31:32,320
Speaker 1: much on top of everything else.

547
00:31:32,840 --> 00:31:35,680
Speaker 2: Like in general. And you know, again for those who

548
00:31:35,920 --> 00:31:38,000
Speaker 2: maybe this was the first child and they hadn't quite

549
00:31:38,000 --> 00:31:40,800
Speaker 2: had the baby yet, but that pre planning and trying

550
00:31:40,800 --> 00:31:44,240
Speaker 2: to get everything done in an unknown atmosphere. And again,

551
00:31:44,880 --> 00:31:47,120
Speaker 2: researchers I've talked about this as well, and they mentioned

552
00:31:47,200 --> 00:31:49,960
Speaker 2: the lack of education for new parents. So here's a

553
00:31:50,040 --> 00:31:53,200
Speaker 2: quote from that same research saying participants complained about the

554
00:31:53,320 --> 00:31:57,160
Speaker 2: lack of education on various subjects related to pregnancy, childbirth,

555
00:31:57,360 --> 00:32:00,760
Speaker 2: and postpartum that were previously available prior to COVID nineteen,

556
00:32:01,320 --> 00:32:04,520
Speaker 2: mothers wanted to engage with healthcare providers or more experienced

557
00:32:04,600 --> 00:32:07,280
Speaker 2: mothers to learn about what to expect. Moving to virtual

558
00:32:07,360 --> 00:32:11,479
Speaker 2: prenatal visits and cancelations of childbirth education and hospital tours

559
00:32:11,520 --> 00:32:14,440
Speaker 2: caused many mothers to arrive at the hospital for birth

560
00:32:14,520 --> 00:32:20,520
Speaker 2: uneducated and fearful at my anxiety. I need to know

561
00:32:20,560 --> 00:32:22,680
Speaker 2: where to park, so half the time I will drive

562
00:32:22,760 --> 00:32:25,360
Speaker 2: to that new location. So having a baby and not

563
00:32:25,560 --> 00:32:28,960
Speaker 2: knowing anything about the facility, I mean, don't get me wrong,

564
00:32:29,040 --> 00:32:31,840
Speaker 2: I know people have done that when like unexpected birds

565
00:32:31,880 --> 00:32:34,880
Speaker 2: happen or you know, all these things. But to not

566
00:32:34,920 --> 00:32:37,400
Speaker 2: even be able to like plan ahead or even have

567
00:32:37,480 --> 00:32:39,800
Speaker 2: this conversation of what this looks like, because I'm sure

568
00:32:39,840 --> 00:32:42,520
Speaker 2: the providers didn't know either, especially at the beginning of

569
00:32:42,520 --> 00:32:44,560
Speaker 2: the pandemic. They didn't know how to navigate this and

570
00:32:44,680 --> 00:32:49,000
Speaker 2: this whole Like we've become pros at the like video

571
00:32:49,080 --> 00:32:54,280
Speaker 2: conferencing now, I say, as we still hate the platform

572
00:32:54,280 --> 00:32:59,640
Speaker 2: we're using today, but but like then that was still new.

573
00:33:00,120 --> 00:33:02,000
Speaker 2: That was still kind of like you only use that

574
00:33:02,160 --> 00:33:04,200
Speaker 2: if you were out of the country and had to

575
00:33:04,200 --> 00:33:06,120
Speaker 2: talk to someone in a different country.

576
00:33:07,280 --> 00:33:11,920
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, And it's just like not a great feeling

577
00:33:12,000 --> 00:33:16,600
Speaker 1: when you know childbirth is dangerous anyway right in this country.

578
00:33:17,600 --> 00:33:19,640
Speaker 1: It's not a great feeling when you roll up and

579
00:33:19,680 --> 00:33:21,800
Speaker 1: you're like, I don't know, well they even have space

580
00:33:21,800 --> 00:33:23,680
Speaker 1: for me. Because that was a big talk during COVID too,

581
00:33:23,880 --> 00:33:28,000
Speaker 1: was like could get there, and they might be like nope, night.

582
00:33:28,240 --> 00:33:30,560
Speaker 2: And only one person. Oftentimes the partner couldn't come with

583
00:33:31,520 --> 00:33:33,320
Speaker 2: if there was a partner or even like your mother

584
00:33:33,640 --> 00:33:37,520
Speaker 2: or any supportive person you wanted there, Oh yeah, they continue.

585
00:33:37,600 --> 00:33:40,760
Speaker 2: There are no ways for mothers, especially first time mothers,

586
00:33:40,840 --> 00:33:44,160
Speaker 2: to adequately prepare for what they were going to experience. Furthermore,

587
00:33:44,240 --> 00:33:47,520
Speaker 2: many mothers planned on participating in groups with other mothers

588
00:33:47,560 --> 00:33:50,959
Speaker 2: offered at their church or neighborhood. However, with all events

589
00:33:51,000 --> 00:33:53,960
Speaker 2: and groups canceled, mothers instead were left to figure out

590
00:33:53,960 --> 00:33:57,920
Speaker 2: postpartum and parenting by themselves. If a woman chose to breastfeed,

591
00:33:57,960 --> 00:34:00,480
Speaker 2: that she did not have the option of lactation, consultation,

592
00:34:01,360 --> 00:34:04,000
Speaker 2: or another mother to visit and ask for advice. Many

593
00:34:04,040 --> 00:34:07,360
Speaker 2: participants focused on the severe lack of postpartum education and

594
00:34:07,360 --> 00:34:09,600
Speaker 2: support as a contributor to their negative feeling.

595
00:34:20,560 --> 00:34:23,080
Speaker 1: And back to that study from the University of Michigan

596
00:34:23,160 --> 00:34:26,239
Speaker 1: quote Schumann says he was surprised by the numbers. A

597
00:34:26,320 --> 00:34:29,440
Speaker 1: third of women screened positive for depression and a fifth

598
00:34:29,600 --> 00:34:32,759
Speaker 1: for major depression. One in five who screened positive for

599
00:34:32,800 --> 00:34:37,040
Speaker 1: postpartum depression reported thoughts of harming themselves. He said the

600
00:34:37,040 --> 00:34:40,560
Speaker 1: findings were especially concerning following a Michigan Medicine led study

601
00:34:40,560 --> 00:34:43,800
Speaker 1: that found increased prevalence of suicidal thoughts and self harm

602
00:34:43,840 --> 00:34:48,000
Speaker 1: among childbearing women. Treatment is pivotal to recovery, he said.

603
00:34:48,360 --> 00:34:52,279
Speaker 1: Resources and education about postpartum depression must be better disseminated

604
00:34:52,320 --> 00:34:55,560
Speaker 1: and implemented. These resources should be shared with the general

605
00:34:55,560 --> 00:34:58,800
Speaker 1: public to reduce stigma, and shared with those who provide

606
00:34:58,800 --> 00:35:02,400
Speaker 1: social and emotional support to postpartum patients, such as partners

607
00:35:02,400 --> 00:35:03,560
Speaker 1: and family members.

608
00:35:04,120 --> 00:35:07,640
Speaker 2: Right, so we jumped from obviously talking about the education

609
00:35:07,760 --> 00:35:10,799
Speaker 2: to this. So a couple of things, like the breastfeeding

610
00:35:10,880 --> 00:35:14,560
Speaker 2: has been a big point of contention and a lot

611
00:35:14,600 --> 00:35:18,319
Speaker 2: of these conversations and research, there's a lot of controversy

612
00:35:18,680 --> 00:35:21,160
Speaker 2: we have. I have no opinion. I have no opinion.

613
00:35:21,239 --> 00:35:24,319
Speaker 2: I can say that I have not looked up any

614
00:35:24,360 --> 00:35:24,560
Speaker 2: of that.

615
00:35:24,680 --> 00:35:24,920
Speaker 1: I know.

616
00:35:25,080 --> 00:35:27,920
Speaker 2: Either of these things are complicated. This is a complicated

617
00:35:27,960 --> 00:35:31,480
Speaker 2: subject apparently because people get upset about people breastfraiting in

618
00:35:31,520 --> 00:35:34,040
Speaker 2: public when I'm like, yeah, they got to feed their children.

619
00:35:36,040 --> 00:35:39,200
Speaker 2: Calm down anyway. But all of that to say is

620
00:35:39,280 --> 00:35:42,520
Speaker 2: there's a lot to be said in that lactation consultation

621
00:35:42,600 --> 00:35:47,840
Speaker 2: I've seen. I've seen some shows Sorry Sally Parents, but

622
00:35:47,920 --> 00:35:51,320
Speaker 2: they do talk about the seriousness and the feelings connected

623
00:35:51,320 --> 00:35:53,520
Speaker 2: to breastfaiting, whether it's feeling like you're failure, feeling like

624
00:35:53,600 --> 00:35:56,000
Speaker 2: it's too much, feeling it like it's painful, Like there's

625
00:35:56,040 --> 00:35:58,640
Speaker 2: so much to that, and so there is a level

626
00:35:58,680 --> 00:36:02,040
Speaker 2: of need in education for this. So when they without that,

627
00:36:02,040 --> 00:36:05,640
Speaker 2: that causes a whole new crisis, especially in trying to

628
00:36:05,640 --> 00:36:08,399
Speaker 2: feed your child. And then back to the whole fact

629
00:36:08,440 --> 00:36:12,400
Speaker 2: of that, self harm and suicidal ideation is not talked

630
00:36:12,400 --> 00:36:14,640
Speaker 2: about in the pregnancy world. I don't think we talk

631
00:36:14,680 --> 00:36:18,520
Speaker 2: about that enough, obviously, because that's not even a thought

632
00:36:18,840 --> 00:36:21,160
Speaker 2: that pops into my head when I think about pregnant people.

633
00:36:21,160 --> 00:36:24,759
Speaker 2: My first I said, you're good, you're healthy, you want this,

634
00:36:24,880 --> 00:36:27,960
Speaker 2: You're good, all right, great, like all of those conversations,

635
00:36:28,560 --> 00:36:31,719
Speaker 2: but like outside of so many other people who just

636
00:36:31,800 --> 00:36:35,359
Speaker 2: have perhaps anxiety and depression, but like that level and

637
00:36:35,400 --> 00:36:44,120
Speaker 2: depth of fear because of whatever hormonal changes, whatever environmental changes.

638
00:36:44,160 --> 00:36:47,120
Speaker 2: There's so much to this, and it's not talked about enough,

639
00:36:47,560 --> 00:36:50,680
Speaker 2: point blank, and then having an isolation we know we

640
00:36:50,760 --> 00:36:52,160
Speaker 2: know what isolation depression does.

641
00:36:53,680 --> 00:36:57,960
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, you got all those hormonal changes. And just like,

642
00:36:59,320 --> 00:37:02,279
Speaker 1: I think we've discussed this so many times, but we'd

643
00:37:02,320 --> 00:37:06,440
Speaker 1: love to societally paint motherhood is like this beautiful thing.

644
00:37:06,440 --> 00:37:08,680
Speaker 1: You must be so happy. This is the greatest thing.

645
00:37:09,080 --> 00:37:12,480
Speaker 1: So I think it makes sense that we haven't looked

646
00:37:12,520 --> 00:37:17,440
Speaker 1: into suicidal ideation when it comes to pregnant people, or

647
00:37:17,480 --> 00:37:20,720
Speaker 1: even depression when it accounts to pregnant people.

648
00:37:21,239 --> 00:37:23,640
Speaker 2: I mean, we have to give it names like baby blues.

649
00:37:23,640 --> 00:37:25,600
Speaker 1: Right, You're like, it's just a baby blues.

650
00:37:25,680 --> 00:37:27,640
Speaker 2: I really want to throw things from I hear that

651
00:37:27,680 --> 00:37:31,080
Speaker 2: for some reason. So here are some of the themes

652
00:37:31,120 --> 00:37:34,920
Speaker 2: that emerge from that study. Five themes emerged heightened emotional distress,

653
00:37:35,200 --> 00:37:40,800
Speaker 2: adverse breastfeeding experiences, unanticipated hospital policy changes, shifting birthing plans,

654
00:37:41,280 --> 00:37:45,440
Speaker 2: expectation versus reality or mourning, the experience of what should

655
00:37:45,480 --> 00:37:50,359
Speaker 2: have been and expected benefits of the pandemic. They also

656
00:37:50,400 --> 00:37:53,759
Speaker 2: talk about social distancing and infection control measures contributed to

657
00:37:53,840 --> 00:37:57,959
Speaker 2: increased guilt, isolation, and depression, and postpartum parents and many

658
00:37:57,960 --> 00:38:01,200
Speaker 2: were denied pre pandemic coping mechanism and experience. A lack

659
00:38:01,239 --> 00:38:04,280
Speaker 2: of support, and this is what the US human had relayed,

660
00:38:04,760 --> 00:38:07,880
Speaker 2: which again like we're about to tap into this because

661
00:38:08,320 --> 00:38:11,360
Speaker 2: that whole level of guilt that we've talked about this

662
00:38:11,520 --> 00:38:14,200
Speaker 2: as individuals, when we fill depressed but then feel guilty

663
00:38:14,200 --> 00:38:16,240
Speaker 2: for filling the press when everybody you know, like that

664
00:38:16,440 --> 00:38:20,040
Speaker 2: build on. Imagine that. Imagine that as a pregnant person,

665
00:38:20,040 --> 00:38:23,600
Speaker 2: Like there's so many levels to this as well as

666
00:38:23,920 --> 00:38:30,760
Speaker 2: pregnant people, pandemic hospital visits, anxiety like birthing, breastfeeding, like planning.

667
00:38:31,480 --> 00:38:34,200
Speaker 2: If you were Type A or OCD, this is the

668
00:38:34,320 --> 00:38:35,920
Speaker 2: nightmare I would imagine.

669
00:38:36,320 --> 00:38:42,359
Speaker 1: Yeah, and I do remember we did a Monday mini

670
00:38:42,480 --> 00:38:45,920
Speaker 1: early on in the pandemic where we were talking about

671
00:38:45,920 --> 00:38:49,560
Speaker 1: the kind of baby bump that happens, yes, and it

672
00:38:49,600 --> 00:38:51,919
Speaker 1: was called COVID babies, and a couple of people wrote

673
00:38:51,920 --> 00:38:53,960
Speaker 1: in like called in was like, you know, this was

674
00:38:54,000 --> 00:38:57,279
Speaker 1: actually a really horrible experience for me, and I kind

675
00:38:57,280 --> 00:39:00,520
Speaker 1: of don't like that it's being termed as like.

676
00:39:00,800 --> 00:39:04,160
Speaker 2: Oh, it was COVID baby, not baby boomer.

677
00:39:04,840 --> 00:39:08,640
Speaker 1: No, it's a very stressful thing that happened, and I'm

678
00:39:08,680 --> 00:39:11,400
Speaker 1: really sad on my plans fell Apart from.

679
00:39:11,360 --> 00:39:15,360
Speaker 2: You, we don't want to talk about this, but this

680
00:39:15,600 --> 00:39:17,920
Speaker 2: was not in the plans, right, Or it was in

681
00:39:18,040 --> 00:39:20,640
Speaker 2: the plans but not the timing. So many things. Yeah,

682
00:39:20,640 --> 00:39:23,640
Speaker 2: and one of the biggest themes within these factors of

683
00:39:24,000 --> 00:39:26,400
Speaker 2: many other pregnant people was that they felt like they

684
00:39:26,400 --> 00:39:30,560
Speaker 2: were doing it wrong and blaming themselves. So here's a

685
00:39:30,640 --> 00:39:33,800
Speaker 2: quote they say, moms say they felt like no matter

686
00:39:33,880 --> 00:39:35,839
Speaker 2: what they did, it was wrong. And this is from

687
00:39:35,840 --> 00:39:39,240
Speaker 2: the human Some women shifted birthing plans, for instance, switching

688
00:39:39,239 --> 00:39:42,840
Speaker 2: from in hospital to out of hospital births or elective

689
00:39:42,880 --> 00:39:46,440
Speaker 2: inductions to avoid a trip to the hospital. Restrictive vegetations

690
00:39:46,520 --> 00:39:49,759
Speaker 2: was described by one mom whose duela was prohibited from

691
00:39:49,760 --> 00:39:54,080
Speaker 2: attending her birth as heartbreaking and yeah, dulas are important,

692
00:39:54,760 --> 00:39:56,399
Speaker 2: so if they have that as a part of plan,

693
00:39:56,560 --> 00:40:00,720
Speaker 2: I'm sure that was devastating. Dalton, who's pre obvious research

694
00:40:00,760 --> 00:40:04,640
Speaker 2: have explored the relationship between depression, anxiety, and cincariaty deliveries

695
00:40:04,680 --> 00:40:08,240
Speaker 2: among pregnant women, said when expectations around labor and delivery

696
00:40:08,320 --> 00:40:12,080
Speaker 2: don't match the day itself, it can lead to intense disappointment.

697
00:40:12,960 --> 00:40:16,280
Speaker 2: People have very deep feelings and excitement around having a baby,

698
00:40:16,320 --> 00:40:18,719
Speaker 2: she said. They often have a vision about what that

699
00:40:18,800 --> 00:40:21,799
Speaker 2: day should look like when things go differently, there may

700
00:40:21,880 --> 00:40:24,759
Speaker 2: be feelings of loss because the event wasn't what they

701
00:40:25,000 --> 00:40:28,400
Speaker 2: always dreamed of. Add on the biological reasons women experience

702
00:40:28,440 --> 00:40:31,120
Speaker 2: depression after pregnancy and all of the disruptions to the

703
00:40:31,160 --> 00:40:33,719
Speaker 2: labor and delivery experience over the last two years, and

704
00:40:33,760 --> 00:40:36,920
Speaker 2: you can understand how COVID could exacerbate mental health issues

705
00:40:36,960 --> 00:40:41,000
Speaker 2: in this population. So there's again all that level, like

706
00:40:41,040 --> 00:40:44,160
Speaker 2: the planning, the anxiety coming through it, having a birth plan,

707
00:40:44,239 --> 00:40:46,360
Speaker 2: having that shattered, not having a birth blank because you

708
00:40:46,400 --> 00:40:48,879
Speaker 2: can't have a birth plan, you can't have the extra

709
00:40:48,920 --> 00:40:51,279
Speaker 2: support like a doula, which a lot of people have

710
00:40:51,360 --> 00:40:53,759
Speaker 2: recommended and have said that has been amazing for them

711
00:40:53,920 --> 00:40:58,160
Speaker 2: because they've become advocates when oftentimes the doctors, not all

712
00:40:58,200 --> 00:41:02,320
Speaker 2: doctors obviously Schumann would be a good one, when doctors

713
00:41:02,480 --> 00:41:08,400
Speaker 2: ignore their patients in their own bodies or their their requests.

714
00:41:08,719 --> 00:41:12,399
Speaker 2: So all of that could be very devastating. Again, not

715
00:41:12,440 --> 00:41:14,600
Speaker 2: having your mom there, if you've dreamed of having your mom,

716
00:41:14,600 --> 00:41:16,719
Speaker 2: there could be a heartbreaking moment not being able to

717
00:41:16,800 --> 00:41:19,440
Speaker 2: have their husband there and hold your hands, which I

718
00:41:19,440 --> 00:41:22,280
Speaker 2: think they did like lighten up those roles towards the

719
00:41:22,320 --> 00:41:27,120
Speaker 2: middle or end when the vaccines happened, right, I think so, yeah, yeah,

720
00:41:27,120 --> 00:41:29,200
Speaker 2: I think that if I remember correctly, so it did

721
00:41:29,280 --> 00:41:32,400
Speaker 2: change up because it was so harsh and again not

722
00:41:32,680 --> 00:41:36,359
Speaker 2: having an advocate, especially when it comes to what we'll

723
00:41:36,400 --> 00:41:37,640
Speaker 2: have to do as SCESAIA and we're gonna have to

724
00:41:37,640 --> 00:41:40,520
Speaker 2: do emergency surgery. There's all of these complications because yes,

725
00:41:41,320 --> 00:41:46,200
Speaker 2: giving birth is dangerous, and if you're medicated or if

726
00:41:46,200 --> 00:41:48,160
Speaker 2: you're under stressed, you might not be able to make

727
00:41:48,160 --> 00:41:51,120
Speaker 2: a call. Like, there's so many things to this that

728
00:41:51,239 --> 00:41:55,759
Speaker 2: I could not imagine. Ya, my heart is racing just

729
00:41:55,800 --> 00:41:59,080
Speaker 2: thinking about it. Again, I'm one of those I'm like, yeah,

730
00:41:59,120 --> 00:42:02,560
Speaker 2: that's why. That's one of one of the reasons I

731
00:42:02,600 --> 00:42:06,080
Speaker 2: did not want children. So with all of that, where

732
00:42:06,080 --> 00:42:08,919
Speaker 2: does that leave us? Yes, society has allowed for more

733
00:42:08,960 --> 00:42:12,960
Speaker 2: pregnant people to actually talk about the realities of postpartum

734
00:42:12,960 --> 00:42:16,080
Speaker 2: depression and mental health. And I feel like during again,

735
00:42:16,239 --> 00:42:18,560
Speaker 2: we got a lot of great research in the last

736
00:42:18,640 --> 00:42:22,640
Speaker 2: four years five years, But is that the same thing

737
00:42:22,719 --> 00:42:27,279
Speaker 2: as actually getting treatment or care. Well, back to that

738
00:42:27,320 --> 00:42:30,719
Speaker 2: Times article we started out with, No, I don't think so.

739
00:42:31,880 --> 00:42:36,000
Speaker 1: Yeah, here's a quote. This normalization has been a net

740
00:42:36,040 --> 00:42:39,760
Speaker 1: game for society. We as a culture needed to destigmatize

741
00:42:39,760 --> 00:42:43,200
Speaker 1: talking about the postpartum struggle to improve maternal wellbeing. But

742
00:42:43,239 --> 00:42:46,640
Speaker 1: as two psychologists specializing in women's health, we've recently come

743
00:42:46,680 --> 00:42:50,320
Speaker 1: to a surprising realization maybe all this normalization has a

744
00:42:50,400 --> 00:42:54,240
Speaker 1: dark side. In our culture's noble attempt to encourage talking

745
00:42:54,280 --> 00:42:58,040
Speaker 1: about postpartum pain and illness, we have inadvertently normalized the

746
00:42:58,200 --> 00:43:01,200
Speaker 1: experience of postparts pain and illness.

747
00:43:03,280 --> 00:43:05,759
Speaker 2: It's one of those things that I think gradually going

748
00:43:05,800 --> 00:43:08,040
Speaker 2: into Yeah, that's what women go through.

749
00:43:09,000 --> 00:43:09,960
Speaker 1: That's just how it is.

750
00:43:11,160 --> 00:43:14,480
Speaker 2: Mm hmm, you can handle it. They were built for this, right,

751
00:43:16,719 --> 00:43:19,440
Speaker 2: so they go on to explain. Today we find ourselves

752
00:43:19,440 --> 00:43:22,799
Speaker 2: in a societal and medical climate that views postpartum health

753
00:43:22,920 --> 00:43:27,360
Speaker 2: as an inescapable part of early motherhood. But this resignation

754
00:43:27,600 --> 00:43:31,719
Speaker 2: runs counter to a wealth of research indicating otherwise. Many

755
00:43:31,760 --> 00:43:35,719
Speaker 2: postpartum health issues such as mood disorders, urinary incontinence, and

756
00:43:36,040 --> 00:43:40,080
Speaker 2: metabolic dysfunction, can be effectively treated or in some cases,

757
00:43:40,400 --> 00:43:45,560
Speaker 2: entirely prevented. By overnormalizing the discussion of postpartum struggle, we

758
00:43:45,640 --> 00:43:48,719
Speaker 2: have limited the much needed broader discussion around early and

759
00:43:48,800 --> 00:43:52,680
Speaker 2: preventative care yeah. I keep thinking about the amount of

760
00:43:52,719 --> 00:43:56,399
Speaker 2: people who talk about being ripped and cut and then

761
00:43:56,680 --> 00:44:01,239
Speaker 2: having the uh what is it the husband stitch, which

762
00:44:01,320 --> 00:44:05,200
Speaker 2: y'all do you know what I'm talking about? Yeah, I

763
00:44:05,480 --> 00:44:10,120
Speaker 2: punch somebody without consent most of the time, by the way.

764
00:44:10,040 --> 00:44:15,000
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, Well, it's also just like it's a huge

765
00:44:15,080 --> 00:44:18,480
Speaker 1: medical procedure. Your body's direcked.

766
00:44:19,560 --> 00:44:23,759
Speaker 2: Leave me be why why But like the conversation about

767
00:44:23,800 --> 00:44:26,040
Speaker 2: the incontinence, like the amount of things like is there

768
00:44:26,480 --> 00:44:30,880
Speaker 2: are they just going like, Eh, that's just normal child birth, sorry,

769
00:44:31,600 --> 00:44:33,919
Speaker 2: instead of actually helping, like the mound of people who

770
00:44:33,920 --> 00:44:38,680
Speaker 2: break their butt bone yep. And don't get me wrong,

771
00:44:39,320 --> 00:44:41,920
Speaker 2: we understand it's stressful all these things, and if you

772
00:44:42,200 --> 00:44:45,760
Speaker 2: don't want to do all those other medical possibilities, that's fine.

773
00:44:46,480 --> 00:44:49,320
Speaker 2: But should we actually look to see if we could

774
00:44:49,560 --> 00:44:55,000
Speaker 2: ease the procedure at all? No? Nah, this is Eve's

775
00:44:55,160 --> 00:45:00,920
Speaker 2: send to us. That's what she handed down the central crisis.

776
00:45:01,480 --> 00:45:04,279
Speaker 2: But going on back to the Times article, doctor avar

777
00:45:04,360 --> 00:45:07,360
Speaker 2: Ram who wrote a book Hormone Intelligence, and she writes

778
00:45:07,719 --> 00:45:10,879
Speaker 2: common and normal are different. Just because so many women

779
00:45:10,960 --> 00:45:14,560
Speaker 2: experience something doesn't mean it's inherent to our biology. Being

780
00:45:14,560 --> 00:45:19,280
Speaker 2: a woman is not a diagnosis. Amen. Women's health issues

781
00:45:19,320 --> 00:45:23,839
Speaker 2: are often treated as inherent part of being female, rather

782
00:45:23,960 --> 00:45:29,120
Speaker 2: than conditions warranting serious attention, research and systemic overhaul. Like

783
00:45:29,160 --> 00:45:33,120
Speaker 2: that's I think that's you know again the bigger conversation

784
00:45:33,160 --> 00:45:37,080
Speaker 2: when it comes to women's health at all, point blank.

785
00:45:37,239 --> 00:45:42,400
Speaker 2: And also why it's important that we have actual research

786
00:45:43,880 --> 00:45:46,440
Speaker 2: with all types inclusion.

787
00:45:47,239 --> 00:45:59,760
Speaker 3: What a novel idea?

788
00:46:00,360 --> 00:46:05,200
Speaker 2: Again, the writers for time, they do acknowledge normalizing is good,

789
00:46:05,640 --> 00:46:08,360
Speaker 2: is a good step in finding a solution or treatment,

790
00:46:08,440 --> 00:46:11,359
Speaker 2: but this should only be a beginning step, so they

791
00:46:11,360 --> 00:46:15,760
Speaker 2: continue normalization serves as an important purpose to destigmatize and educate,

792
00:46:15,800 --> 00:46:17,880
Speaker 2: to extract truth from the shadows and cast it in

793
00:46:17,920 --> 00:46:21,200
Speaker 2: the light. In the US, the postpartum struggles needed an

794
00:46:21,239 --> 00:46:24,680
Speaker 2: era of normalization. But we should view this as a

795
00:46:24,680 --> 00:46:28,360
Speaker 2: stepping stone rather than a destination. Again, I think that

796
00:46:28,840 --> 00:46:32,319
Speaker 2: makes perfect sense, Like, yes, we need to be able

797
00:46:32,360 --> 00:46:34,480
Speaker 2: to talk about this, women need to talk about this now.

798
00:46:34,760 --> 00:46:39,000
Speaker 2: We need to see this as a collective problem, not

799
00:46:39,320 --> 00:46:40,440
Speaker 2: just a conversation.

800
00:46:41,800 --> 00:46:45,960
Speaker 1: Yeah, I had a stepping stone. Al and Freihart have

801
00:46:46,320 --> 00:46:49,960
Speaker 1: some suggestions, they write quote to meaningfully fix the current

802
00:46:50,000 --> 00:46:53,560
Speaker 1: state of postpartum care. Multiple systems need to be redesigned,

803
00:46:53,600 --> 00:46:57,359
Speaker 1: from government policies to standard medical protocols. For most of us,

804
00:46:57,400 --> 00:47:00,759
Speaker 1: though the thought of overhauling these systems can figure impossible

805
00:47:00,760 --> 00:47:04,800
Speaker 1: and disempowering, but there is something We do have power

806
00:47:04,840 --> 00:47:08,680
Speaker 1: over our narratives. It is essential that we shift from

807
00:47:08,680 --> 00:47:12,040
Speaker 1: a narrative that over normalizes the postpartum struggle to one

808
00:47:12,120 --> 00:47:16,200
Speaker 1: of preventative care, one that refuses to accept it as normal.

809
00:47:16,560 --> 00:47:18,719
Speaker 1: We need to leave behind the notion of that's just

810
00:47:18,760 --> 00:47:21,400
Speaker 1: how things are and replace it with it shouldn't have

811
00:47:21,480 --> 00:47:22,239
Speaker 1: to be this way.

812
00:47:23,200 --> 00:47:25,000
Speaker 2: And actually they do get some good examples, and I

813
00:47:25,080 --> 00:47:29,399
Speaker 2: did note earlier because I've seen more tiktoks in which

814
00:47:29,440 --> 00:47:32,400
Speaker 2: South Korea has one, which I think they write eight

815
00:47:32,400 --> 00:47:35,080
Speaker 2: out of ten mothers will stay at care centers after

816
00:47:35,120 --> 00:47:40,440
Speaker 2: giving birth, and they have everything fresh mills, childcare, classes, pilates,

817
00:47:40,480 --> 00:47:43,600
Speaker 2: massage facials, all those things. They even provide in home

818
00:47:43,640 --> 00:47:48,279
Speaker 2: cleaning and laundry services. Makes sense. Of course, again they're

819
00:47:48,320 --> 00:47:52,080
Speaker 2: not doing it right either, necessarily about women in general,

820
00:47:52,120 --> 00:47:55,719
Speaker 2: because the birth rate is really far down. But that

821
00:47:55,760 --> 00:48:00,640
Speaker 2: type of postpartum care is amazing. New Zealand they write

822
00:48:01,760 --> 00:48:04,080
Speaker 2: after giving birth moms can stay at a local birthing

823
00:48:04,120 --> 00:48:06,399
Speaker 2: center free of charge, where they will receive one on

824
00:48:06,400 --> 00:48:11,360
Speaker 2: one care for them and their babies. Which these sound amazing.

825
00:48:11,800 --> 00:48:16,400
Speaker 2: This should be a thing, yeah, instead of funding wars.

826
00:48:16,640 --> 00:48:20,399
Speaker 2: But anyway, and apparently pediatricians have stepped up to fill

827
00:48:20,440 --> 00:48:23,560
Speaker 2: that space in helping to treat the parents. So this

828
00:48:23,680 --> 00:48:27,320
Speaker 2: is from that Guardian article written by Doherty. She writes,

829
00:48:27,360 --> 00:48:30,799
Speaker 2: if women aren't seeing their healthcare providers about emotional complications

830
00:48:30,840 --> 00:48:34,240
Speaker 2: during the perinatal period, they do typically take their babies

831
00:48:34,239 --> 00:48:38,360
Speaker 2: to the pediatricians, and these visits provide a critical opportunity

832
00:48:38,400 --> 00:48:40,880
Speaker 2: to expand care from the baby to the parents and

833
00:48:40,960 --> 00:48:44,160
Speaker 2: offer mental health screening to parents regardless of gender. Some

834
00:48:44,280 --> 00:48:48,400
Speaker 2: pediatricians have therefore become substitutes for family health care on

835
00:48:48,520 --> 00:48:54,400
Speaker 2: the frontline and detecting postpartum depression. Logan's Children's practice in Callyspill, Montana,

836
00:48:54,560 --> 00:48:58,560
Speaker 2: sorry began to incorporate postpartum depression and screening during well

837
00:48:58,600 --> 00:49:01,640
Speaker 2: infant checkups in twenty twenty, and in twenty nineteen, the

838
00:49:01,680 --> 00:49:06,040
Speaker 2: AAP reported that roughly half of its providers offered maternal

839
00:49:06,080 --> 00:49:11,120
Speaker 2: depressions screening. Again, COVID HIT change a lot of things

840
00:49:11,600 --> 00:49:14,960
Speaker 2: and it prompted the AAP to recommend that pediatricians conduct

841
00:49:15,080 --> 00:49:18,719
Speaker 2: validated screening at each other well infant visits at one, two, four,

842
00:49:18,719 --> 00:49:21,960
Speaker 2: and six months to help improve diagnosis and referrals for treatment.

843
00:49:22,080 --> 00:49:23,399
Speaker 2: So they increased it. I love that.

844
00:49:25,280 --> 00:49:29,200
Speaker 1: And it seems to have been effective. She continues quote.

845
00:49:29,280 --> 00:49:33,200
Speaker 1: Doctor John Cole, pediatrician at Logan Children's, has noticed many

846
00:49:33,280 --> 00:49:37,000
Speaker 1: positive results for postpartum depression since it instituted the screening

847
00:49:37,000 --> 00:49:40,319
Speaker 1: tool four years ago. The reaction from parents has been

848
00:49:40,440 --> 00:49:44,000
Speaker 1: fairly favorable. He noted, I think the parents feel comfortable

849
00:49:44,080 --> 00:49:46,480
Speaker 1: talking with us. He said, we just have a lot

850
00:49:46,520 --> 00:49:49,160
Speaker 1: more touch points with mothers and fathers than they would

851
00:49:49,239 --> 00:49:54,799
Speaker 1: otherwise have with their ob providers. Since the pandemic, his

852
00:49:55,000 --> 00:49:58,680
Speaker 1: office has seen an uptick in cases, but what surprised

853
00:49:58,760 --> 00:50:01,239
Speaker 1: him is the number of women in families who were

854
00:50:01,280 --> 00:50:05,000
Speaker 1: already seeking treatment and support for it. It's promising that

855
00:50:05,080 --> 00:50:07,720
Speaker 1: many of these women have already spoken with their midwife

856
00:50:07,800 --> 00:50:10,840
Speaker 1: or OBI about this and are on treatments. He said.

857
00:50:11,120 --> 00:50:15,000
Speaker 1: The practice provides additional screening and recommendations for follow up treatment,

858
00:50:15,320 --> 00:50:17,600
Speaker 1: and he says both men and women, especially new parents,

859
00:50:17,680 --> 00:50:19,920
Speaker 1: should have a primary doctor to ensure that they are

860
00:50:19,960 --> 00:50:21,880
Speaker 1: receiving regular healthcare checkups.

861
00:50:22,440 --> 00:50:24,319
Speaker 2: Yeah, and that's amazing. And I think that's again where

862
00:50:24,360 --> 00:50:28,840
Speaker 2: we note and have that conversation about the all oftentimes

863
00:50:28,840 --> 00:50:31,680
Speaker 2: that pregnant people are recognizing they need help, they're just

864
00:50:31,760 --> 00:50:33,799
Speaker 2: not getting it. They're just not able to find it,

865
00:50:33,920 --> 00:50:37,240
Speaker 2: they're not able to access it. There's also a bigger

866
00:50:37,320 --> 00:50:41,600
Speaker 2: conversation about how the marginalized communities are offered even less

867
00:50:41,920 --> 00:50:45,799
Speaker 2: services and offered even less help. Again, when we talked

868
00:50:45,800 --> 00:50:47,799
Speaker 2: about the fact that a lot of the parents having

869
00:50:47,840 --> 00:50:50,239
Speaker 2: a stay at home job, we have many people who

870
00:50:50,239 --> 00:50:53,640
Speaker 2: we couldn't have stay at home jobs. They were essential workers,

871
00:50:53,840 --> 00:50:58,360
Speaker 2: which felt very interesting in that conversation in itself. And

872
00:50:58,440 --> 00:51:00,520
Speaker 2: so we're not even able to stay at home. So

873
00:51:00,600 --> 00:51:03,319
Speaker 2: there's so many things to that level that we are

874
00:51:03,600 --> 00:51:06,240
Speaker 2: we have not gotten into and I haven't seen the research.

875
00:51:06,280 --> 00:51:08,600
Speaker 2: Maybe I need to be more specific with that research,

876
00:51:09,080 --> 00:51:12,440
Speaker 2: because it is that conversation to about the lack of

877
00:51:12,440 --> 00:51:16,080
Speaker 2: opportunities for certain groups of people when it comes to

878
00:51:16,120 --> 00:51:18,360
Speaker 2: access in general, and we've talked about it millions of

879
00:51:18,360 --> 00:51:22,480
Speaker 2: times and everything, but pregnancy and children are a big,

880
00:51:22,600 --> 00:51:25,239
Speaker 2: huge red flag when it comes to the divisiveness and

881
00:51:25,280 --> 00:51:29,560
Speaker 2: who gets what types of treatment in this area. I

882
00:51:29,600 --> 00:51:33,839
Speaker 2: will say also in twenty twenty three, the FDA did

883
00:51:33,880 --> 00:51:38,080
Speaker 2: approve the first oral treatment for postpartum depression, and this

884
00:51:38,120 --> 00:51:40,920
Speaker 2: is from the FDA dot gov. The US Food and

885
00:51:40,960 --> 00:51:46,000
Speaker 2: Drug Administration approved zarzuv or zorod alone, which is the

886
00:51:46,040 --> 00:51:50,160
Speaker 2: first oral medication indicated to treat postpartum depression and adults.

887
00:51:50,200 --> 00:51:52,280
Speaker 2: They talk about some of the risks, but in general

888
00:51:52,480 --> 00:51:56,319
Speaker 2: they see this as being effective. They go on to

889
00:51:56,360 --> 00:51:59,839
Speaker 2: say that this treatment in adults was demonstrated in two

890
00:52:00,120 --> 00:52:03,800
Speaker 2: randomized double debt blah blah blah blahs. EVO controlled many studies,

891
00:52:04,200 --> 00:52:07,600
Speaker 2: in many studies, y'all, and the trial participants were women

892
00:52:07,680 --> 00:52:12,480
Speaker 2: with PPD who met all the rec requirements and patients

893
00:52:12,520 --> 00:52:15,600
Speaker 2: received all these things and it did well for a

894
00:52:15,719 --> 00:52:18,279
Speaker 2: majority of the patients. Again, this is also one of

895
00:52:18,320 --> 00:52:22,759
Speaker 2: those things where different people have different needs. Certain people

896
00:52:22,880 --> 00:52:26,000
Speaker 2: have allergies and such, so there was side effects that

897
00:52:26,000 --> 00:52:28,399
Speaker 2: you have to look out for. But again twenty twenty three,

898
00:52:28,440 --> 00:52:30,960
Speaker 2: that is a big step that they actually found a

899
00:52:30,960 --> 00:52:34,080
Speaker 2: treatment or looked for a treatment in itself. Now we'll

900
00:52:34,080 --> 00:52:38,680
Speaker 2: say in twenty nineteen, the first actual medication which is

901
00:52:38,800 --> 00:52:43,400
Speaker 2: brixent alone was approved, and this is an injection for IVS,

902
00:52:43,520 --> 00:52:48,640
Speaker 2: so obviously I think it's probably pretty soon after childbirth

903
00:52:49,239 --> 00:52:52,200
Speaker 2: the way that it's administered, I'm assuming. But those are

904
00:52:52,239 --> 00:52:55,239
Speaker 2: two great things. Again, it was twenty nineteen when that

905
00:52:55,239 --> 00:53:01,920
Speaker 2: first one was approved, so wow, and again twenty twenty

906
00:53:02,000 --> 00:53:08,959
Speaker 2: four when the oral pill was created, so great. But wow.

907
00:53:09,920 --> 00:53:15,160
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean that's long been an issue where not

908
00:53:15,239 --> 00:53:19,920
Speaker 1: only do we not not run have scientific stadies on women,

909
00:53:20,520 --> 00:53:24,240
Speaker 1: pregnancy is a big one, and I'm going to assume

910
00:53:24,520 --> 00:53:28,240
Speaker 1: even post pregnancy there's just not been a lot at.

911
00:53:28,120 --> 00:53:32,960
Speaker 2: All well as we've seen in this administration after birthday

912
00:53:33,000 --> 00:53:38,440
Speaker 2: don't care. Yes, again, these are good steps. This medications

913
00:53:38,480 --> 00:53:40,799
Speaker 2: are good steps, but we have to talk about the

914
00:53:40,800 --> 00:53:43,400
Speaker 2: fact that this is just a part of the treatment

915
00:53:43,400 --> 00:53:46,799
Speaker 2: that is needed and not necessarily the whole treatment. And

916
00:53:46,920 --> 00:53:51,280
Speaker 2: this level of conversation about preventative treatments is big again

917
00:53:51,400 --> 00:53:55,239
Speaker 2: about it being inclusive of the entire family. I think

918
00:53:55,280 --> 00:53:57,360
Speaker 2: that's also something that we don't talk enough about. But

919
00:53:57,440 --> 00:54:02,279
Speaker 2: the pandemic and obviously all of that affected what we

920
00:54:02,360 --> 00:54:06,560
Speaker 2: have seen and how how treatments have been given. We're

921
00:54:06,560 --> 00:54:09,239
Speaker 2: back here now and obviously have been a little more

922
00:54:09,239 --> 00:54:13,120
Speaker 2: relaxed since then. We shouldn't be Honestly, I don't know

923
00:54:13,120 --> 00:54:14,560
Speaker 2: if we need to be completely shut down, but we

924
00:54:14,560 --> 00:54:16,479
Speaker 2: should be cautious in masking and doing all those things.

925
00:54:16,480 --> 00:54:20,200
Speaker 2: But you know, that's a whole different episode. There's the

926
00:54:20,320 --> 00:54:22,440
Speaker 2: depth of conversation that needs to be had now that

927
00:54:22,520 --> 00:54:25,080
Speaker 2: we've normalized that. We need to stop making it seem

928
00:54:25,160 --> 00:54:27,359
Speaker 2: that this is okay and that's all that is needed

929
00:54:27,480 --> 00:54:29,319
Speaker 2: is just a conversation. We need to open it up

930
00:54:29,400 --> 00:54:34,839
Speaker 2: to treatments and counseling and education, like they need to

931
00:54:34,840 --> 00:54:37,239
Speaker 2: direct that money that they're sending to that dough just

932
00:54:37,280 --> 00:54:43,640
Speaker 2: been saving by cutting these programs specifically, I guess, but

933
00:54:43,760 --> 00:54:45,640
Speaker 2: there you go. I know that's that's again. This is

934
00:54:45,840 --> 00:54:50,200
Speaker 2: very like brief like conversation, an hour less than an

935
00:54:50,200 --> 00:54:53,600
Speaker 2: hour conversation in this topic. And there's so much more

936
00:54:53,640 --> 00:54:56,160
Speaker 2: that need to be said. Obviously, we are not professionals.

937
00:54:56,200 --> 00:54:59,120
Speaker 2: We did not do this depth of research and surveys

938
00:54:59,160 --> 00:55:01,480
Speaker 2: and questions, but we think it's important that we have

939
00:55:01,560 --> 00:55:04,520
Speaker 2: these conversations, even if we're not the ones that are

940
00:55:04,560 --> 00:55:07,279
Speaker 2: getting pregnant. This affects all of us, This affects all

941
00:55:07,280 --> 00:55:09,360
Speaker 2: the people in our community and we need to be

942
00:55:09,400 --> 00:55:13,080
Speaker 2: talking about why research like this is so important.

943
00:55:13,920 --> 00:55:18,440
Speaker 1: Absolutely, and as always, listeners, if you have any thoughts

944
00:55:18,480 --> 00:55:22,080
Speaker 1: about this, please let us know. You can email us

945
00:55:22,160 --> 00:55:24,759
Speaker 1: at Hello at Stephannever Told You dot com. You can

946
00:55:24,800 --> 00:55:27,080
Speaker 1: find us on blue Sky Moster podcasts, or on Instagram

947
00:55:27,160 --> 00:55:29,560
Speaker 1: and TikTok at stuff Never Told You for us on YouTube.

948
00:55:29,560 --> 00:55:30,840
Speaker 1: We have a tea public store and we have a

949
00:55:30,880 --> 00:55:33,520
Speaker 1: book you can get wherever you get your books. Thanks

950
00:55:33,560 --> 00:55:35,920
Speaker 1: as always to our super producer Gris, Senior Executiveroducer Maya

951
00:55:36,040 --> 00:55:38,480
Speaker 1: and your contruder Joey. Thank you. Thanks to you for

952
00:55:38,560 --> 00:55:40,880
Speaker 1: listening Stuff Never Told You Structure by Heart Radio. For

953
00:55:40,880 --> 00:55:42,480
Speaker 1: more podcasts from my heart Radio, you can check out

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955
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