1 00:00:00,120 --> 00:00:03,440 Speaker 1: Today, we are talking about one of the most infamous 2 00:00:03,480 --> 00:00:07,200 Speaker 1: crimes that continues to capture the public's imagination, and that 3 00:00:07,400 --> 00:00:12,000 Speaker 1: is the shooting of Mary Joe Butafuco by an underage 4 00:00:12,000 --> 00:00:14,960 Speaker 1: girl who was having an affair with her husband. This 5 00:00:15,120 --> 00:00:19,440 Speaker 1: crime absolutely dominated the press. If you are unfamiliar with 6 00:00:19,440 --> 00:00:23,279 Speaker 1: this case, Mary Joe Butifuco, a stay at home mother 7 00:00:23,360 --> 00:00:26,599 Speaker 1: of two small kids, opened her front door and was 8 00:00:26,680 --> 00:00:29,800 Speaker 1: shot in the head at her home in Massa Peak 9 00:00:29,840 --> 00:00:32,880 Speaker 1: of New York by seventeen year old Amy Fisher, who 10 00:00:32,920 --> 00:00:37,280 Speaker 1: was having a salacious relationship with Mary Joe's husband, Joey Buttafuco. 11 00:00:38,280 --> 00:00:43,800 Speaker 1: Mary Joe sustained severe permanent injuries, including partial facial paralysis 12 00:00:43,840 --> 00:00:46,839 Speaker 1: and deafness in one ear, and she still to this 13 00:00:47,000 --> 00:00:51,440 Speaker 1: day has the bullet in her head. The case exploded nationally, 14 00:00:51,520 --> 00:00:55,000 Speaker 1: with the press dubbing Amy the Long Island Lolita, and 15 00:00:55,120 --> 00:00:58,400 Speaker 1: Joey denied the affair for years. Mary Joe stood by him, 16 00:00:58,680 --> 00:01:01,840 Speaker 1: a choice that made her a target of public ridicule. 17 00:01:02,400 --> 00:01:04,720 Speaker 1: I mean this family and Amy were on the cover 18 00:01:04,800 --> 00:01:08,440 Speaker 1: of every magazine and newspaper. There were three TV movies 19 00:01:08,480 --> 00:01:11,280 Speaker 1: made about the crime, and between one hundred and one 20 00:01:11,360 --> 00:01:15,160 Speaker 1: hundred and twenty five million people watched at least one 21 00:01:15,240 --> 00:01:19,279 Speaker 1: of them. Scandal media had become dominant in mainstream culture 22 00:01:19,319 --> 00:01:24,120 Speaker 1: at this time, and this story had everything obsession, stalking, 23 00:01:24,280 --> 00:01:28,360 Speaker 1: a shocking act of violence, and a controversial plea deal 24 00:01:28,480 --> 00:01:38,080 Speaker 1: that left Mary Joe stunned. Amy Roboc and TJ. 25 00:01:38,200 --> 00:01:42,000 Speaker 2: Holmes present Killer Thriller with your Host Alisa Donovan. 26 00:01:45,160 --> 00:01:50,680 Speaker 1: Today we are talking about Mary Joe Buttafuco and her story. 27 00:01:51,240 --> 00:01:53,120 Speaker 1: And first I'm going to take you back with my 28 00:01:53,160 --> 00:01:59,040 Speaker 1: producers here to nineteen ninety two when this all happened. 29 00:01:59,600 --> 00:02:01,680 Speaker 2: I think it's interesting right out the gate that we're 30 00:02:01,680 --> 00:02:04,919 Speaker 2: talking about the Mary Joe Budafuco story, because in nineteen 31 00:02:05,000 --> 00:02:06,880 Speaker 2: ninety two we all were calling it the. 32 00:02:06,800 --> 00:02:08,799 Speaker 1: Amy Fishy Fisher story. 33 00:02:09,160 --> 00:02:09,400 Speaker 3: Yep. 34 00:02:09,840 --> 00:02:12,240 Speaker 2: So I know we're going to talk today about the 35 00:02:12,280 --> 00:02:14,880 Speaker 2: Lifetime movie that's coming out. Tell I know you've seen it. 36 00:02:14,960 --> 00:02:17,160 Speaker 2: Tell us about it and why it's different from the 37 00:02:17,200 --> 00:02:20,000 Speaker 2: two or three versions we knew from the nineties. 38 00:02:20,400 --> 00:02:24,800 Speaker 1: Okay, So, first of all, it's pretty extraordinary. I have 39 00:02:24,840 --> 00:02:27,959 Speaker 1: to say. It's the first time that we're hearing Mary 40 00:02:28,040 --> 00:02:32,800 Speaker 1: Joe's story from her own mouth quite literally. Some of 41 00:02:32,840 --> 00:02:37,160 Speaker 1: the film is her speaking directly to camera about her story, 42 00:02:37,320 --> 00:02:40,720 Speaker 1: and then the other parts are re enactments with actors 43 00:02:40,760 --> 00:02:46,600 Speaker 1: that drive the narrative. And I mean, I was I 44 00:02:46,639 --> 00:02:50,200 Speaker 1: absolutely remember this case. I grew up thirty minutes from 45 00:02:50,200 --> 00:02:53,040 Speaker 1: where this happened, so I was living in Manhattan at 46 00:02:53,080 --> 00:02:55,600 Speaker 1: the time, but I grew up on Long Island right 47 00:02:56,000 --> 00:03:00,600 Speaker 1: by there, and it just dominated everything. You not get 48 00:03:00,639 --> 00:03:01,600 Speaker 1: away from this story. 49 00:03:02,080 --> 00:03:05,560 Speaker 2: How did you feel about her Amy Fisher being nicknamed 50 00:03:05,639 --> 00:03:09,040 Speaker 2: the Long Island Lolita? What did that do to somebody 51 00:03:09,080 --> 00:03:10,240 Speaker 2: from Long Island? 52 00:03:10,800 --> 00:03:14,760 Speaker 1: Well, first of all, nobody is gonna care. But I'm 53 00:03:14,800 --> 00:03:19,200 Speaker 1: a huge Nabokov fan, so I loved the book Lolita, 54 00:03:19,280 --> 00:03:22,480 Speaker 1: and I felt like, how dare they use this terminology 55 00:03:22,960 --> 00:03:26,880 Speaker 1: in this regard? I mean, it's just despicable, is what 56 00:03:26,960 --> 00:03:29,200 Speaker 1: I felt. But at the time, I was so young, 57 00:03:29,240 --> 00:03:33,840 Speaker 1: I wasn't thinking about how she was being exploited in 58 00:03:33,880 --> 00:03:38,680 Speaker 1: the process while also having made these horrific decisions, obviously, 59 00:03:38,680 --> 00:03:40,040 Speaker 1: which are inexcusable. 60 00:03:40,280 --> 00:03:43,760 Speaker 2: Do you think that that's why this story, this crime 61 00:03:44,960 --> 00:03:49,040 Speaker 2: is still ever present in our memories because we are 62 00:03:49,160 --> 00:03:53,880 Speaker 2: her age and it just was flabbergasting that some seventeen 63 00:03:53,960 --> 00:03:56,120 Speaker 2: year old was dating this old man and then just 64 00:03:56,360 --> 00:04:01,520 Speaker 2: tried to attack kill his wife. 65 00:04:01,680 --> 00:04:03,200 Speaker 1: I mean, I don't know, if I think about it, 66 00:04:03,280 --> 00:04:05,400 Speaker 1: like the age, I was probably a couple of years 67 00:04:05,440 --> 00:04:07,560 Speaker 1: older than if it was nine ey, I was probably twenty, 68 00:04:08,400 --> 00:04:10,720 Speaker 1: but certainly close enough in age. I think to me, 69 00:04:10,880 --> 00:04:13,960 Speaker 1: I felt like I know these people's voices. I know 70 00:04:14,080 --> 00:04:19,160 Speaker 1: these accents. I can imagine that guy who runs the shop, 71 00:04:19,400 --> 00:04:22,400 Speaker 1: runs the autobody place. I can see this girl, I 72 00:04:22,440 --> 00:04:25,039 Speaker 1: can see her in that outfit. I can see the 73 00:04:25,080 --> 00:04:29,760 Speaker 1: things like I really went, oh my god, I know 74 00:04:29,920 --> 00:04:36,040 Speaker 1: these people. It was absolutely crazy. And the fact that 75 00:04:36,160 --> 00:04:38,760 Speaker 1: Mary joe you know this is what I think you 76 00:04:38,760 --> 00:04:44,719 Speaker 1: know looking back now is really upsetting and unbelievable. Is 77 00:04:44,720 --> 00:04:48,040 Speaker 1: that the story really became about Amy and Joey, and 78 00:04:48,320 --> 00:04:50,800 Speaker 1: no one was talking about the woman who was the 79 00:04:50,880 --> 00:04:54,039 Speaker 1: victim of this heinous crime. I mean, she opened the 80 00:04:54,080 --> 00:04:57,719 Speaker 1: front door of her house and opened the door to 81 00:04:57,800 --> 00:05:01,200 Speaker 1: Amy and thinks, here's this young girl who is not threatening, 82 00:05:01,279 --> 00:05:03,520 Speaker 1: and then the girl shoots her in the head. It's 83 00:05:03,600 --> 00:05:06,360 Speaker 1: completely crazy. One of the reasons for that. 84 00:05:06,600 --> 00:05:11,480 Speaker 2: Is that in the nineties, after this case blew up, 85 00:05:12,320 --> 00:05:17,119 Speaker 2: there were three different dramatizations of it. Who that stand 86 00:05:17,160 --> 00:05:19,520 Speaker 2: out to me the Drew Barrymore version and the Alisa 87 00:05:19,520 --> 00:05:24,480 Speaker 2: Milano version that aired on the same night on ABC 88 00:05:24,600 --> 00:05:29,159 Speaker 2: and CBS with very big stars. So even though you 89 00:05:29,200 --> 00:05:31,919 Speaker 2: could say Drew Barrymore is even a bigger star today, 90 00:05:32,000 --> 00:05:34,960 Speaker 2: at the time she was a very big stars. Lana 91 00:05:35,000 --> 00:05:38,000 Speaker 2: was coming off of Who's the Boss yep, very recognizable 92 00:05:38,040 --> 00:05:42,440 Speaker 2: actors taking over and be portraying Amy Fisher, and both 93 00:05:42,480 --> 00:05:47,000 Speaker 2: were from Amy's perspective, from her Amy Fisher story where 94 00:05:47,440 --> 00:05:49,800 Speaker 2: Mary Joe but Ifuko is really just sort of the victim, 95 00:05:49,920 --> 00:05:54,640 Speaker 2: and a small portion where the affair and relationship between 96 00:05:54,720 --> 00:05:59,000 Speaker 2: Joey and Amy was the fuckus y. 97 00:05:59,279 --> 00:06:01,840 Speaker 1: Yes, I mean it was something like I believe it 98 00:06:01,880 --> 00:06:04,159 Speaker 1: was one hundred to one hundred and twenty five million 99 00:06:04,480 --> 00:06:09,080 Speaker 1: people watched one or the other of at least one 100 00:06:09,080 --> 00:06:12,880 Speaker 1: of those movies. I mean, that is an extraordinary amount 101 00:06:12,880 --> 00:06:15,839 Speaker 1: of people who watched something the very first time that 102 00:06:15,880 --> 00:06:19,440 Speaker 1: it was on. I mean, it captivated the entire country. 103 00:06:21,120 --> 00:06:25,480 Speaker 2: You've now seen this Mary Joe Buttafuco story that we're 104 00:06:25,480 --> 00:06:29,720 Speaker 2: going to be talking about today. What is your takeaway 105 00:06:30,160 --> 00:06:34,640 Speaker 2: or what surprised you in watching this dramatization and sort 106 00:06:34,640 --> 00:06:41,160 Speaker 2: of documentary version. The others maybe uh misled us with well. 107 00:06:41,160 --> 00:06:45,480 Speaker 1: I think first and foremost, I was struck by just 108 00:06:45,520 --> 00:06:52,960 Speaker 1: how raw and open she was about her own mistakes 109 00:06:53,440 --> 00:06:56,840 Speaker 1: in the midst of something that no one could I mean, 110 00:06:56,880 --> 00:07:00,600 Speaker 1: she is was utterly dropped in to this. This is 111 00:07:00,640 --> 00:07:05,039 Speaker 1: not her fault write any of this, and she really 112 00:07:05,560 --> 00:07:09,320 Speaker 1: chose to be self reflective over the years and learning 113 00:07:09,360 --> 00:07:16,080 Speaker 1: about how she developed a pill addiction from her injuries, 114 00:07:16,120 --> 00:07:19,200 Speaker 1: but then also as sort of a coping mechanism to 115 00:07:19,320 --> 00:07:24,800 Speaker 1: deal with what was happening, which is entirely understandable. And 116 00:07:25,560 --> 00:07:31,800 Speaker 1: I think I really understood how her real goal in 117 00:07:31,840 --> 00:07:34,320 Speaker 1: life was to be a wife and a mother, like 118 00:07:34,400 --> 00:07:38,800 Speaker 1: a very pure goal she had, and it was decimated 119 00:07:39,200 --> 00:07:42,760 Speaker 1: by this man, really by her husband, And I think 120 00:07:42,800 --> 00:07:46,000 Speaker 1: this is the first time where you really see that 121 00:07:47,520 --> 00:07:53,080 Speaker 1: she is accountable for her own decisions, but you really 122 00:07:53,160 --> 00:07:57,400 Speaker 1: see how she is finally I think, making him accountable. 123 00:07:57,560 --> 00:08:01,400 Speaker 2: It's been thirty years and it's still a story that 124 00:08:01,520 --> 00:08:09,400 Speaker 2: captivates us and obviously is the driving force of her life. Yes, yeah, 125 00:08:09,480 --> 00:08:10,320 Speaker 2: I mean it's her. 126 00:08:10,680 --> 00:08:15,360 Speaker 1: I was also struck by how kind of sweet she seems, 127 00:08:15,880 --> 00:08:19,520 Speaker 1: like a very tender person and I don't think that 128 00:08:19,680 --> 00:08:25,080 Speaker 1: was she was ever portrayed as that somehow, I just so, 129 00:08:25,280 --> 00:08:28,480 Speaker 1: I feel like it's very revelatory, and I, like I said, 130 00:08:28,520 --> 00:08:32,200 Speaker 1: I hope she I hope she feels some you know, 131 00:08:32,760 --> 00:08:37,920 Speaker 1: if not closure, some some vindication, some healing, some you 132 00:08:37,920 --> 00:08:40,480 Speaker 1: know that she's had her voice heard. 133 00:08:41,080 --> 00:08:43,480 Speaker 2: She never changed her name, she still married Joe Butafuco. 134 00:08:43,720 --> 00:08:46,800 Speaker 2: So when she tells this story, is she I'm married 135 00:08:46,880 --> 00:08:48,200 Speaker 2: Joe Bafuco. 136 00:08:48,000 --> 00:08:51,520 Speaker 1: Yes, yes, which I do think is interesting because the 137 00:08:51,640 --> 00:08:55,400 Speaker 1: sun did change his name. She has two children, a 138 00:08:55,480 --> 00:08:59,320 Speaker 1: daughter and a son, and the son, from what I understand, 139 00:08:59,400 --> 00:09:01,960 Speaker 1: changed his life name because it's I mean, do you 140 00:09:02,000 --> 00:09:04,720 Speaker 1: know anyone else with that last name? I don't. I've 141 00:09:04,720 --> 00:09:06,840 Speaker 1: never heard of anyone else with that last name. 142 00:09:07,160 --> 00:09:10,240 Speaker 2: It's interesting. In two thousand and six on entertainment tonight, 143 00:09:10,440 --> 00:09:18,560 Speaker 2: I think Amy and Mary Joe did an interview. 144 00:09:18,400 --> 00:09:25,160 Speaker 1: Together, yes, which you know thinking about that now, I don't. 145 00:09:25,360 --> 00:09:29,400 Speaker 1: I mean the girl tried to kill her. I mean, 146 00:09:29,400 --> 00:09:31,200 Speaker 1: that's one thing. There are a lot of things that 147 00:09:31,200 --> 00:09:34,760 Speaker 1: are sort of unclear still, like whether Joey pressed her 148 00:09:34,800 --> 00:09:37,400 Speaker 1: to do that or whether he even talked to her 149 00:09:37,440 --> 00:09:42,040 Speaker 1: about it. But what is unequivocal because she admits it 150 00:09:42,120 --> 00:09:45,120 Speaker 1: is she went there to kill her like that was 151 00:09:45,679 --> 00:09:46,920 Speaker 1: that was the intent. 152 00:09:47,320 --> 00:09:50,840 Speaker 2: She's started just seven years for the crime. 153 00:09:51,280 --> 00:09:57,559 Speaker 1: Of fifteen sure, and she was released early mainly because 154 00:09:57,559 --> 00:10:01,120 Speaker 1: Mary Joe came and gave a statement on her behalf, 155 00:10:01,360 --> 00:10:04,599 Speaker 1: which I think is extraordinary. 156 00:10:04,920 --> 00:10:07,360 Speaker 2: Now do they dig into that in this show Mary 157 00:10:07,440 --> 00:10:09,200 Speaker 2: Joe's ability to forgive. 158 00:10:09,320 --> 00:10:14,719 Speaker 1: Yes, yes, yes, which is but you know in this 159 00:10:14,880 --> 00:10:21,280 Speaker 1: way where they show the complexity of that that, yes, 160 00:10:21,640 --> 00:10:24,679 Speaker 1: Mary Joe can see how this girl had a rough 161 00:10:24,920 --> 00:10:29,640 Speaker 1: upbringing she was a child. She can have some sympathy 162 00:10:29,760 --> 00:10:32,240 Speaker 1: for that, but it doesn't excuse her behavior. 163 00:10:32,679 --> 00:10:37,440 Speaker 2: And yeah, initially Joey, but if you could denied the affair. Yes, 164 00:10:37,559 --> 00:10:42,720 Speaker 2: he later in court, Amy testifies against him, and he 165 00:10:42,760 --> 00:10:44,400 Speaker 2: does admit. 166 00:10:44,320 --> 00:10:49,360 Speaker 1: He is a diabolical human being in my opinion, the 167 00:10:49,440 --> 00:10:53,439 Speaker 1: fact that he could first of all just lie straight 168 00:10:53,480 --> 00:10:58,360 Speaker 1: to his wife's face the police like everyone under the sun. 169 00:10:58,720 --> 00:11:04,880 Speaker 1: And then afterwards his lawyer said something to the effect of, oh, 170 00:11:04,360 --> 00:11:07,880 Speaker 1: this is truly who he is. He's a great family man. 171 00:11:08,080 --> 00:11:13,720 Speaker 1: So he pled guilty to this one count of statutory rape. 172 00:11:14,080 --> 00:11:16,480 Speaker 1: Like I don't he was almost like they were trying 173 00:11:16,480 --> 00:11:19,240 Speaker 1: to champion him as if he's such a great guy, 174 00:11:19,640 --> 00:11:24,160 Speaker 1: and then the neighborhood threw him a party when he 175 00:11:24,200 --> 00:11:27,240 Speaker 1: got out of prison for statutory rape. 176 00:11:27,360 --> 00:11:29,880 Speaker 2: He was still at the time with Mary Joe I 177 00:11:29,920 --> 00:11:33,640 Speaker 2: believe he was still married. Two thousands, he was released 178 00:11:33,640 --> 00:11:38,120 Speaker 2: from jail and marry joe and Joey moved to California. 179 00:11:38,320 --> 00:11:40,960 Speaker 2: She filed for divorce from him in two thousand and three. 180 00:11:41,040 --> 00:11:43,040 Speaker 2: He was remarried in two thousand and five. 181 00:11:43,440 --> 00:11:46,560 Speaker 1: Yet he also before while they were still married, he 182 00:11:46,640 --> 00:11:51,640 Speaker 1: was arrested for a solicitation while he was on probation. 183 00:11:52,760 --> 00:11:55,080 Speaker 2: After he was released from prison. 184 00:11:55,360 --> 00:11:56,760 Speaker 1: After who was released from prison? 185 00:11:57,240 --> 00:12:00,119 Speaker 2: What do you think it is that makes this story 186 00:12:00,960 --> 00:12:07,120 Speaker 2: so captivating still that we just still are learning and 187 00:12:07,200 --> 00:12:10,439 Speaker 2: watching and this is a new version thirty years later. 188 00:12:11,080 --> 00:12:12,320 Speaker 2: What is it about this one? 189 00:12:13,040 --> 00:12:17,320 Speaker 1: I think, I think it's really sort of unbelievable still 190 00:12:17,800 --> 00:12:22,680 Speaker 1: and then you think, well, it happened, and this girl 191 00:12:23,000 --> 00:12:27,240 Speaker 1: is still I mean she I think part of it 192 00:12:27,280 --> 00:12:31,240 Speaker 1: is somehow these these people get to have a second 193 00:12:31,320 --> 00:12:36,040 Speaker 1: life by doing these kind of exploitative shows about themselves, 194 00:12:36,720 --> 00:12:41,040 Speaker 1: and that is so disturbing to me. So that's another 195 00:12:41,120 --> 00:12:45,839 Speaker 1: reason that I feel I feel really happy is the 196 00:12:45,880 --> 00:12:49,679 Speaker 1: wrong word, you know. I feel really good for Mary 197 00:12:49,760 --> 00:12:52,880 Speaker 1: Joe that she's able to have this platform and really 198 00:12:53,840 --> 00:13:00,760 Speaker 1: be forthright and raw and honest and truth about her 199 00:13:00,800 --> 00:13:01,439 Speaker 1: own story. 200 00:13:02,960 --> 00:13:03,160 Speaker 3: Yeah. 201 00:13:03,160 --> 00:13:09,560 Speaker 2: I think it's interesting that infamous is what these people are, 202 00:13:09,880 --> 00:13:12,800 Speaker 2: which is a lot of people don't know. And it 203 00:13:12,960 --> 00:13:17,760 Speaker 2: for me is becoming famous for something bad, but it 204 00:13:17,880 --> 00:13:22,760 Speaker 2: is still fame, and so many people thrive off of 205 00:13:23,520 --> 00:13:27,880 Speaker 2: being famous even if it is infamous. 206 00:13:27,440 --> 00:13:30,880 Speaker 1: Right, And this is something interesting that Mary Joe does 207 00:13:30,960 --> 00:13:34,560 Speaker 1: say in this movie that she never wanted to be famous. 208 00:13:35,160 --> 00:13:38,200 Speaker 1: She never wanted any attention like this. Like I said, 209 00:13:38,240 --> 00:13:41,360 Speaker 1: she wanted a simple life. This is a good person. 210 00:13:42,000 --> 00:13:45,720 Speaker 1: She was raised Catholic, very traditional, wanted to be a 211 00:13:45,760 --> 00:13:51,040 Speaker 1: wife and a mother, and she chose the wrong dude 212 00:13:51,080 --> 00:13:54,880 Speaker 1: for that. Okay, let's get into it with the executive producer, 213 00:13:54,920 --> 00:13:59,000 Speaker 1: Sherry Singer of the new Lifetime film. I am Mary 214 00:13:59,080 --> 00:14:16,880 Speaker 1: Joe Buttafuco. Welcome, Sherry, thank you for being here with 215 00:14:16,920 --> 00:14:17,400 Speaker 1: me today. 216 00:14:18,120 --> 00:14:19,240 Speaker 3: I'm happy to be here. 217 00:14:20,720 --> 00:14:23,680 Speaker 1: I want to say just to start that I am 218 00:14:24,200 --> 00:14:27,320 Speaker 1: so incredibly glad that this woman finally gets her time 219 00:14:27,400 --> 00:14:29,600 Speaker 1: to take back her own story. We have been hearing 220 00:14:29,640 --> 00:14:33,680 Speaker 1: about this for years and I'm just I feel very 221 00:14:34,680 --> 00:14:36,920 Speaker 1: moved by the entire endeavor. 222 00:14:37,280 --> 00:14:41,320 Speaker 3: So bravo, thank you very much. I was too, and 223 00:14:41,360 --> 00:14:44,960 Speaker 3: I didn't necessarily expect to be, you know, I just thought, well, 224 00:14:45,000 --> 00:14:50,000 Speaker 3: i'll care, you know, but it was beyond particularly once 225 00:14:50,040 --> 00:14:53,920 Speaker 3: I met her and I directed all the inserts of 226 00:14:53,960 --> 00:14:58,640 Speaker 3: her and just watching her, you know, he's kind of 227 00:14:58,680 --> 00:14:59,800 Speaker 3: amazing too. 228 00:15:00,360 --> 00:15:04,240 Speaker 1: What happens is Mary Joe is sitting and she's quite 229 00:15:04,320 --> 00:15:07,120 Speaker 1: literally speaking to the camera telling her story, and then 230 00:15:07,160 --> 00:15:10,680 Speaker 1: it's intercut with narrative and actors and acting it. And 231 00:15:10,760 --> 00:15:17,880 Speaker 1: there is something incredibly powerful about that that you see 232 00:15:17,920 --> 00:15:20,840 Speaker 1: the nuance. It's almost as though you see her kind 233 00:15:20,840 --> 00:15:25,640 Speaker 1: of healing while she's speaking. It's kind of extraordinary. 234 00:15:26,040 --> 00:15:29,720 Speaker 3: You know, when we filmed the wedding scene, she was 235 00:15:29,760 --> 00:15:32,520 Speaker 3: on the set. She came for a few days and 236 00:15:33,280 --> 00:15:39,359 Speaker 3: she cried. I mean it was it was super emotional. 237 00:15:39,520 --> 00:15:44,440 Speaker 3: Everybody on the set loved her immediately. I love this 238 00:15:44,560 --> 00:15:48,200 Speaker 3: so much for her, me too, me too. How can 239 00:15:48,280 --> 00:15:48,520 Speaker 3: you not? 240 00:15:49,320 --> 00:15:52,840 Speaker 1: How can you not? Okay, So, let's so this case 241 00:15:53,720 --> 00:15:58,280 Speaker 1: became tabloid legend, I mean literally almost instantly. And how 242 00:15:58,320 --> 00:16:02,080 Speaker 1: did you approach dramatize the story that people think they know, 243 00:16:02,520 --> 00:16:04,760 Speaker 1: but really they mostly only know it through headlines and 244 00:16:04,880 --> 00:16:06,120 Speaker 1: caricatures of these people. 245 00:16:06,680 --> 00:16:09,160 Speaker 3: Well, we actually just touched on that a little bit. 246 00:16:09,400 --> 00:16:12,840 Speaker 3: It was meant to be. Lifetime has this sort of 247 00:16:13,120 --> 00:16:18,080 Speaker 3: I Am or I was franchised where a woman that 248 00:16:18,480 --> 00:16:23,440 Speaker 3: was famous or infamous years later reflects back on the 249 00:16:23,560 --> 00:16:28,520 Speaker 3: story that everybody thinks they knew and tells it and 250 00:16:28,880 --> 00:16:31,480 Speaker 3: you know, pretty much entirely from her point of view. 251 00:16:31,520 --> 00:16:34,400 Speaker 3: And that doesn't mean we didn't have other sources, but 252 00:16:35,240 --> 00:16:39,720 Speaker 3: this is the story that she wanted to tell. So 253 00:16:39,840 --> 00:16:43,600 Speaker 3: we felt all of us, you know, felt very responsible 254 00:16:43,800 --> 00:16:45,640 Speaker 3: for being true to that. 255 00:16:46,720 --> 00:16:49,000 Speaker 1: Right And how did she how did you come to 256 00:16:49,000 --> 00:16:50,840 Speaker 1: meet her? How did this The. 257 00:16:50,800 --> 00:16:56,520 Speaker 3: Project actually was somebody at Lifetime, an executive that I 258 00:16:56,640 --> 00:17:02,800 Speaker 3: work with frequently, who who I think they hooked up 259 00:17:02,920 --> 00:17:04,959 Speaker 3: through Instagram believe it or not. 260 00:17:05,520 --> 00:17:07,439 Speaker 1: I think, you know, I personally feel like that's how 261 00:17:07,480 --> 00:17:10,720 Speaker 1: we heal through anything, right. But she I was so 262 00:17:12,560 --> 00:17:17,040 Speaker 1: really moved by that, which I was not expecting necessarily, 263 00:17:17,119 --> 00:17:19,840 Speaker 1: because I feel like that there's a nuance in this, 264 00:17:20,920 --> 00:17:23,560 Speaker 1: you know, that complication of how they always made Amy 265 00:17:23,600 --> 00:17:27,199 Speaker 1: Fisher look like the victim, yes, and then at the 266 00:17:27,240 --> 00:17:30,720 Speaker 1: same time demonized her. So it's like all the women 267 00:17:30,880 --> 00:17:36,600 Speaker 1: in this story just got the worst end. Yeah, especially 268 00:17:36,680 --> 00:17:41,560 Speaker 1: married Joe, but especially married Joe yep, I mean beyond 269 00:17:41,600 --> 00:17:44,200 Speaker 1: everything else, you know, she's still got a bullet in 270 00:17:44,680 --> 00:17:48,280 Speaker 1: her head. It's unfaible. So well, let's yeah, let's talk 271 00:17:48,320 --> 00:17:53,200 Speaker 1: about the actual case a little bit. So how true 272 00:17:53,240 --> 00:17:55,560 Speaker 1: is the portrayal in the film of her dealing with 273 00:17:55,600 --> 00:17:58,160 Speaker 1: the issues of like Joey not being home or her 274 00:17:58,640 --> 00:18:00,680 Speaker 1: being alone with the kids, and him not growing up 275 00:18:00,800 --> 00:18:03,679 Speaker 1: and his denial of the affair, Because I felt like 276 00:18:03,840 --> 00:18:08,240 Speaker 1: those are the things that somehow no one ever talked about, 277 00:18:08,440 --> 00:18:12,160 Speaker 1: like they never he was just sort of excused for 278 00:18:12,200 --> 00:18:15,960 Speaker 1: this behavior and almost championed. You know, the moment when 279 00:18:15,960 --> 00:18:19,040 Speaker 1: they say she says that they threw a party for 280 00:18:19,119 --> 00:18:23,000 Speaker 1: him when he got out of jail serving time for 281 00:18:23,080 --> 00:18:24,159 Speaker 1: statutory rape. 282 00:18:24,760 --> 00:18:29,080 Speaker 3: I know it's I don't think that would happen today, 283 00:18:29,520 --> 00:18:33,800 Speaker 3: you know, because going back about thirty four years, thirty 284 00:18:33,840 --> 00:18:38,359 Speaker 3: five years now, so for reasons that you and I 285 00:18:38,560 --> 00:18:43,280 Speaker 3: and the audience have lived through during this time, you 286 00:18:43,280 --> 00:18:48,760 Speaker 3: know that wouldn't happen. But it did, and we had 287 00:18:48,800 --> 00:18:53,080 Speaker 3: to have multiple sources for you know, all of our scenes. 288 00:18:53,160 --> 00:18:58,679 Speaker 3: It was the writer did a tremendous amount of research, 289 00:18:58,880 --> 00:19:02,240 Speaker 3: spent a long time I'm interviewing Mary Joe, and would 290 00:19:02,240 --> 00:19:06,200 Speaker 3: go back to her, you know, when he was constructing things, 291 00:19:06,320 --> 00:19:11,080 Speaker 3: and we made sure I mean the actual the parts 292 00:19:11,160 --> 00:19:15,719 Speaker 3: that she isn't in. She still read the script at 293 00:19:15,720 --> 00:19:19,400 Speaker 3: a certain point, but she saw all the things that 294 00:19:19,480 --> 00:19:22,640 Speaker 3: she was going to say and had her own input 295 00:19:22,760 --> 00:19:25,840 Speaker 3: in that. And you know, I guess we've all decided 296 00:19:25,880 --> 00:19:30,200 Speaker 3: to believe her it's first hand, and I do, by 297 00:19:30,240 --> 00:19:32,840 Speaker 3: the way, believe it. In fact, I think it was 298 00:19:33,400 --> 00:19:38,960 Speaker 3: probably worse than you know, what we could portray. Yes, 299 00:19:39,080 --> 00:19:43,480 Speaker 3: I think it was a conservative view. 300 00:19:44,400 --> 00:19:47,800 Speaker 1: Yes, as a viewer, at moments, I felt like, gosh, 301 00:19:47,800 --> 00:19:51,800 Speaker 1: she just was able to withstand so much but then 302 00:19:51,960 --> 00:19:57,040 Speaker 1: also be very transparent about how awful some of these 303 00:19:57,040 --> 00:20:01,240 Speaker 1: things were. And I just kept thinking, this is you know, generationally, 304 00:20:01,560 --> 00:20:05,040 Speaker 1: that is not normal. It's not something that you know, 305 00:20:05,160 --> 00:20:09,639 Speaker 1: we culturally have done in this country ever. And so 306 00:20:10,160 --> 00:20:14,240 Speaker 1: I feel like, and her being raised Catholic and all 307 00:20:14,280 --> 00:20:17,720 Speaker 1: of the sort of her own religious and cultural things, 308 00:20:17,760 --> 00:20:22,120 Speaker 1: that just said, you have to be a partner, that's 309 00:20:22,119 --> 00:20:23,639 Speaker 1: what you do you can't. 310 00:20:24,080 --> 00:20:29,480 Speaker 3: That's a really central part of understanding why she stayed 311 00:20:30,640 --> 00:20:36,640 Speaker 3: for eleven years after the incident and why and her 312 00:20:36,800 --> 00:20:41,800 Speaker 3: family pressures, you know, from there from their religion, because 313 00:20:41,840 --> 00:20:44,800 Speaker 3: people say, oh a, why didn't Why did you so 314 00:20:45,000 --> 00:20:48,800 Speaker 3: not believe him? You know, and be why did you stay? 315 00:20:49,480 --> 00:20:53,359 Speaker 3: And we felt it was really important to tell to 316 00:20:53,480 --> 00:20:56,800 Speaker 3: answer that question for the audience because for those who 317 00:20:56,840 --> 00:20:59,520 Speaker 3: already knew this story, those are the biggest questions. 318 00:20:59,680 --> 00:21:02,679 Speaker 1: Yes. Yes, And when you hear it and you see this, 319 00:21:02,920 --> 00:21:08,119 Speaker 1: it makes I mean, it's utterly understandable, you know, the 320 00:21:09,400 --> 00:21:12,800 Speaker 1: amount of I just can't imagine that you could ever 321 00:21:13,840 --> 00:21:16,960 Speaker 1: stand up to that at that time, under those circumstances 322 00:21:17,280 --> 00:21:19,920 Speaker 1: and wanting to be I thought it was so beautiful. 323 00:21:20,040 --> 00:21:24,240 Speaker 1: You know, we often do not champion and celebrate stay 324 00:21:24,240 --> 00:21:27,760 Speaker 1: at home moms, and it's the single most important job 325 00:21:27,800 --> 00:21:33,000 Speaker 1: there is, in my opinion, and oftentimes, you know, women 326 00:21:33,440 --> 00:21:36,199 Speaker 1: sort of they don't get appreciated enough for that. And 327 00:21:36,240 --> 00:21:38,520 Speaker 1: this seems like a woman who that's really what she 328 00:21:38,560 --> 00:21:40,719 Speaker 1: wanted to do. She wanted to be a wife and 329 00:21:40,760 --> 00:21:44,639 Speaker 1: a mother, yes, and it's such a pure, beautiful desire 330 00:21:45,480 --> 00:21:49,080 Speaker 1: and to have it so destroyed like, I just it's devastating. 331 00:21:49,320 --> 00:21:52,359 Speaker 3: Yeah, it really is, and that really is who she was. 332 00:21:52,720 --> 00:21:56,800 Speaker 3: And I think, you know, back then it was we 333 00:21:56,800 --> 00:22:01,719 Speaker 3: were also sort of struggling with men's rights and you know, 334 00:22:01,840 --> 00:22:06,679 Speaker 3: women's and women standing up and saying I can be 335 00:22:06,800 --> 00:22:11,280 Speaker 3: a mother and a wife, but some people just want 336 00:22:11,320 --> 00:22:14,120 Speaker 3: to do one or the other, you know. And it's 337 00:22:14,200 --> 00:22:19,120 Speaker 3: no different than than many many, many career women who 338 00:22:19,200 --> 00:22:26,200 Speaker 3: have deep careers deciding that not having kids is you know, 339 00:22:26,600 --> 00:22:31,840 Speaker 3: right for them. So I think it was. It's a 340 00:22:31,880 --> 00:22:36,720 Speaker 3: lot of in the hindsight looking at what was going 341 00:22:36,760 --> 00:22:40,520 Speaker 3: on in the country then, right right, as well as 342 00:22:40,760 --> 00:22:42,320 Speaker 3: this story. 343 00:22:42,160 --> 00:22:44,879 Speaker 1: Yes, as well as the specifics for them. And that 344 00:22:45,080 --> 00:22:49,160 Speaker 1: also makes me think about her addiction to the pain 345 00:22:49,280 --> 00:22:52,160 Speaker 1: pills and the medications. You know, we didn't no one 346 00:22:52,280 --> 00:22:55,360 Speaker 1: was talking about addiction to opioids at that time, nobody 347 00:22:55,800 --> 00:22:58,560 Speaker 1: seven years seven years. So yeah, how much do you 348 00:22:58,640 --> 00:23:01,960 Speaker 1: think how much was that a part of her denial? 349 00:23:02,040 --> 00:23:02,560 Speaker 1: Did she talk? 350 00:23:02,640 --> 00:23:06,240 Speaker 3: Well, I'm sure that that that was. It was all 351 00:23:06,320 --> 00:23:09,159 Speaker 3: of the all of the things you're bringing up, you know, 352 00:23:09,280 --> 00:23:12,760 Speaker 3: we were a part of it, and she didn't want 353 00:23:12,800 --> 00:23:16,280 Speaker 3: to believe it. She was told not to believe it. 354 00:23:18,080 --> 00:23:23,040 Speaker 3: By people in her life that mattered, and she had kids, 355 00:23:23,280 --> 00:23:26,920 Speaker 3: and you know it's I mean, I've been through it. 356 00:23:26,920 --> 00:23:29,879 Speaker 3: It's really hard to get a divorce, even when you 357 00:23:30,000 --> 00:23:34,160 Speaker 3: both want it. It's really hard, right, and even if 358 00:23:34,160 --> 00:23:38,560 Speaker 3: people are civil, right, you know so, And in those days, 359 00:23:38,600 --> 00:23:42,520 Speaker 3: you were told it's better to stay in an unhappy 360 00:23:42,600 --> 00:23:45,600 Speaker 3: marriage than to put your kids through a divorce. That 361 00:23:45,800 --> 00:23:50,240 Speaker 3: was the molt, you know, from the late eighties certainly 362 00:23:50,280 --> 00:23:56,240 Speaker 3: through the nineties, and and some of us never agreed 363 00:23:56,280 --> 00:23:58,280 Speaker 3: with that, but a lot of people did. 364 00:23:59,080 --> 00:23:59,280 Speaker 1: Yeah. 365 00:23:59,760 --> 00:24:04,479 Speaker 3: Yeah, so I think she's she's you know, iconic in 366 00:24:04,520 --> 00:24:08,240 Speaker 3: this way. You know that that the things that happened 367 00:24:08,280 --> 00:24:12,560 Speaker 3: to her happened at a time and a place that 368 00:24:13,080 --> 00:24:14,640 Speaker 3: they could right. 369 00:24:15,200 --> 00:24:32,360 Speaker 1: Right, Let's talk a little bit about the the the 370 00:24:32,400 --> 00:24:35,240 Speaker 1: actual shooting, to which I think, you know, we kind 371 00:24:35,280 --> 00:24:41,160 Speaker 1: of gloss over this, the specifics of she was standing 372 00:24:41,160 --> 00:24:44,720 Speaker 1: on her own doorstep of her own home, yes, with 373 00:24:45,520 --> 00:24:50,840 Speaker 1: being unafraid of looking at this little girl, and so 374 00:24:51,000 --> 00:24:55,240 Speaker 1: how how true to reality were those specifically the things 375 00:24:55,920 --> 00:24:59,080 Speaker 1: when they she goes and tries to sell her candy 376 00:24:59,080 --> 00:25:02,280 Speaker 1: bars under the guys's of doing that for school, And we. 377 00:25:02,320 --> 00:25:03,680 Speaker 3: Didn't make any of this up. 378 00:25:03,720 --> 00:25:04,359 Speaker 1: That's all real. 379 00:25:04,760 --> 00:25:09,440 Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, we did. We took very little, if anything, 380 00:25:10,320 --> 00:25:13,560 Speaker 3: we took very We took almost no creative license because 381 00:25:13,600 --> 00:25:21,960 Speaker 3: we couldn't and and therefore, you know what you saw happened. 382 00:25:22,440 --> 00:25:25,879 Speaker 1: You just see how young this person is, the Amy, 383 00:25:26,040 --> 00:25:29,960 Speaker 1: the choices she made in so naive and so wildly 384 00:25:30,080 --> 00:25:34,680 Speaker 1: dangerous by going to the door first, and so were 385 00:25:34,720 --> 00:25:38,040 Speaker 1: those things were real that she like stopped her and 386 00:25:38,119 --> 00:25:40,320 Speaker 1: tried to I mean, it's just crazy. 387 00:25:40,920 --> 00:25:44,280 Speaker 3: Those two people that she hired for the first one 388 00:25:44,280 --> 00:25:47,280 Speaker 3: who couldn't pull the trigger and then the second one 389 00:25:47,320 --> 00:25:51,480 Speaker 3: where she got the gun. I mean they testified, you know, 390 00:25:51,640 --> 00:25:52,840 Speaker 3: on the record. 391 00:25:52,840 --> 00:25:55,000 Speaker 1: They really helped to prosecute they did. 392 00:25:55,760 --> 00:25:59,600 Speaker 3: Yes, you know, probably for a deal, you know that, 393 00:26:00,160 --> 00:26:04,159 Speaker 3: but that'll that's standard, you know, if you're going to 394 00:26:04,240 --> 00:26:08,000 Speaker 3: step up and tell the truth and you want you 395 00:26:08,040 --> 00:26:11,720 Speaker 3: want something in return, right right? No, they you know, 396 00:26:11,920 --> 00:26:14,680 Speaker 3: so they were very real people. 397 00:26:14,800 --> 00:26:20,640 Speaker 1: Right did she when in the in the movie they 398 00:26:20,680 --> 00:26:23,919 Speaker 1: show Mary Joe and she comes to and she identified 399 00:26:23,960 --> 00:26:28,159 Speaker 1: Amy in a in a photo that was that also really? 400 00:26:28,520 --> 00:26:33,000 Speaker 3: Yes, happened. Yeah, we couldn't. We had very little creative license. 401 00:26:34,040 --> 00:26:37,760 Speaker 3: I mean you can the kind of creative license you 402 00:26:37,880 --> 00:26:40,879 Speaker 3: have is maybe a scene that really occurred, didn't happen 403 00:26:40,920 --> 00:26:43,800 Speaker 3: in the park we shot it in, or you know, 404 00:26:44,240 --> 00:26:47,840 Speaker 3: maybe the you know, the the photos we took for example, 405 00:26:47,880 --> 00:26:52,400 Speaker 3: when she remarried, you know, that was representative of what, 406 00:26:52,920 --> 00:26:55,200 Speaker 3: you know, what their life was like, because it was 407 00:26:56,040 --> 00:26:58,679 Speaker 3: you know, but those kinds of things, even with a 408 00:26:59,160 --> 00:27:02,720 Speaker 3: you know, with a based on fact docudrama, you can 409 00:27:02,760 --> 00:27:08,920 Speaker 3: have a little latitude for setting things, you know, maybe 410 00:27:08,920 --> 00:27:12,159 Speaker 3: in a different place because you're shooting a movie. Sure 411 00:27:12,920 --> 00:27:17,959 Speaker 3: you don't as opposed to a documentary. But even with documentaries, 412 00:27:18,040 --> 00:27:22,280 Speaker 3: now you know, they're recreating, right, you know, they're all 413 00:27:22,320 --> 00:27:25,600 Speaker 3: the reality shows and the docs have lots of recreation 414 00:27:25,800 --> 00:27:31,760 Speaker 3: in them, right, So we obviously had had to do that. 415 00:27:32,600 --> 00:27:35,719 Speaker 3: But I know, it's kind of hard to believe that 416 00:27:35,760 --> 00:27:37,680 Speaker 3: these things really happened. 417 00:27:38,960 --> 00:27:42,240 Speaker 1: It really is unbelievable, much of it. 418 00:27:42,640 --> 00:27:45,560 Speaker 3: I mean, I have to tell you, I was around 419 00:27:45,600 --> 00:27:49,320 Speaker 3: and in the business producing and some of my friends 420 00:27:49,359 --> 00:27:54,800 Speaker 3: made those three Network movies, so I remember them very well, 421 00:27:55,520 --> 00:28:02,520 Speaker 3: and it's they really were you know, the fact that 422 00:28:02,560 --> 00:28:05,720 Speaker 3: they did the Amy Fisher story, you know what. 423 00:28:05,760 --> 00:28:08,400 Speaker 1: I it's it's stunning to me. 424 00:28:08,480 --> 00:28:11,720 Speaker 3: Think back on that and it's it's just so shocking. 425 00:28:11,800 --> 00:28:15,119 Speaker 3: But a lot of it was it was instantaneous, you know, 426 00:28:15,280 --> 00:28:18,639 Speaker 3: it happened. I mean, she was on a set. Mary 427 00:28:18,760 --> 00:28:22,679 Speaker 3: Joe was on a set six months after she was shot. 428 00:28:23,040 --> 00:28:25,920 Speaker 1: So those dates are real, That's what I was gathering. 429 00:28:26,320 --> 00:28:28,920 Speaker 3: Oh my gosh, they all had to be real. 430 00:28:29,760 --> 00:28:32,560 Speaker 1: I mean, that's they don't even they haven't even processed. 431 00:28:32,640 --> 00:28:37,240 Speaker 1: She can she's still in very early stages of her injuries. 432 00:28:37,800 --> 00:28:41,760 Speaker 1: I can't even imagine the confusion of that and the 433 00:28:42,200 --> 00:28:47,920 Speaker 1: And I really appreciated how she talked about in retrospect, 434 00:28:47,960 --> 00:28:51,840 Speaker 1: now how absurd all of that was that but you 435 00:28:51,880 --> 00:28:55,120 Speaker 1: but you what do you do all of the you know, 436 00:28:56,400 --> 00:29:00,520 Speaker 1: there's just a multitude that was so complicated what was happening, 437 00:29:00,640 --> 00:29:03,680 Speaker 1: and then just having to go with it. And I 438 00:29:04,480 --> 00:29:09,560 Speaker 1: really I really appreciated that and the complexity and Amy 439 00:29:09,640 --> 00:29:13,400 Speaker 1: being portrayed as the victim. But then Mary Joe's opinion 440 00:29:13,440 --> 00:29:16,720 Speaker 1: based on her own actual experiences, And did you feel 441 00:29:16,720 --> 00:29:18,480 Speaker 1: this from her? Did you talk about that at all? 442 00:29:18,720 --> 00:29:21,320 Speaker 3: Yeah, Well, one of the things we talked about was 443 00:29:21,520 --> 00:29:26,760 Speaker 3: that obviously this is a woman who shot to kill her, 444 00:29:27,120 --> 00:29:32,800 Speaker 3: you know, and she didn't die, and it uprooted the 445 00:29:33,040 --> 00:29:37,680 Speaker 3: entire you know, her entire life obviously, and her kid's life. 446 00:29:38,360 --> 00:29:41,800 Speaker 3: But at a certain point, you know, she started leaning 447 00:29:41,840 --> 00:29:45,360 Speaker 3: into and you saw this, you know, this scene when 448 00:29:45,360 --> 00:29:48,600 Speaker 3: she comes out of rehab where she's telling her kids, 449 00:29:48,680 --> 00:29:51,520 Speaker 3: I have to forgive. And I think one of the 450 00:29:51,560 --> 00:29:55,040 Speaker 3: things that I admire the most about her is I 451 00:29:55,080 --> 00:29:58,680 Speaker 3: don't know if I could do that, you'd be perfectly honest. 452 00:29:58,400 --> 00:30:02,520 Speaker 1: I am telling you. I was asking myself that many 453 00:30:02,560 --> 00:30:05,760 Speaker 1: times watching this movie, like would I be capable? Like 454 00:30:05,840 --> 00:30:08,400 Speaker 1: I'd love to think that that one I would have 455 00:30:08,440 --> 00:30:11,840 Speaker 1: left immediately, which you know, I'm certain that wouldn't have 456 00:30:11,840 --> 00:30:16,880 Speaker 1: happened either. But you know, her strength is something else. 457 00:30:18,240 --> 00:30:21,320 Speaker 3: I agree, Yeah, and I still see it, you know, 458 00:30:21,680 --> 00:30:28,000 Speaker 3: I I saw it. And she also she's very, very sweet. 459 00:30:28,280 --> 00:30:31,000 Speaker 3: And the other thing was she was very I mean, 460 00:30:31,040 --> 00:30:33,080 Speaker 3: and she's a lot of other things too, you know, 461 00:30:33,600 --> 00:30:39,440 Speaker 3: but she wanted to do her best job, you know, 462 00:30:39,640 --> 00:30:43,840 Speaker 3: of telling the story from her point of view, and 463 00:30:45,320 --> 00:30:48,920 Speaker 3: I you know, the proof is in the fact that 464 00:30:48,960 --> 00:30:51,840 Speaker 3: she's very close still to her kids. You know, I 465 00:30:51,880 --> 00:30:56,120 Speaker 3: met her daughter. Yeah, and when we were shooting the inserts, 466 00:30:56,120 --> 00:31:04,160 Speaker 3: who was lovely and therapist now and and and she 467 00:31:05,680 --> 00:31:10,520 Speaker 3: made it a priority to give you know, yes, yes, 468 00:31:10,800 --> 00:31:15,200 Speaker 3: create that she had the opportunity to do that. And really, 469 00:31:15,440 --> 00:31:18,960 Speaker 3: I mean, Lifetime was the right home for this. 470 00:31:19,760 --> 00:31:23,600 Speaker 1: I mean, it really is a you know, we I 471 00:31:24,240 --> 00:31:26,040 Speaker 1: think about this a lot and talk about this a lot. 472 00:31:26,120 --> 00:31:28,560 Speaker 1: You know, the idea of turning pain into purpose and 473 00:31:28,600 --> 00:31:31,560 Speaker 1: all of that, and it seems so kind of trite 474 00:31:31,560 --> 00:31:33,800 Speaker 1: at this point we just say that as a term, 475 00:31:34,080 --> 00:31:40,120 Speaker 1: but there is so much methodical, deep work that actually 476 00:31:40,120 --> 00:31:44,080 Speaker 1: goes into being able to do that. And I've I 477 00:31:44,280 --> 00:31:47,240 Speaker 1: just I'm you know, I mean, she talks about she 478 00:31:47,320 --> 00:31:50,280 Speaker 1: uses the term having Stockholm syndrome even you know, because 479 00:31:50,320 --> 00:31:56,720 Speaker 1: this is also about he was an abusive man, yes, emotionally, 480 00:31:57,160 --> 00:32:01,239 Speaker 1: and it's really uh, that's a whole other part that 481 00:32:01,320 --> 00:32:05,280 Speaker 1: again nobody really talks about. It's it really is is 482 00:32:05,320 --> 00:32:10,880 Speaker 1: shocking how much things have you know, changed. So were 483 00:32:10,880 --> 00:32:14,520 Speaker 1: you with you know, this branding of the Long Island Lolita, 484 00:32:14,640 --> 00:32:18,360 Speaker 1: We all just like accepted that as oh okay, and 485 00:32:18,440 --> 00:32:20,720 Speaker 1: I'll let me read this article about like it just 486 00:32:20,800 --> 00:32:24,360 Speaker 1: is bananas when I think about it now. And that 487 00:32:24,480 --> 00:32:28,840 Speaker 1: obviously shifted some sympathy towards her, but also exploited her. 488 00:32:28,920 --> 00:32:33,240 Speaker 1: But how conscious were you guys of correcting that narrative? 489 00:32:33,760 --> 00:32:36,760 Speaker 3: What we wanted. The best way to do it is, 490 00:32:37,040 --> 00:32:40,080 Speaker 3: I think the way it turned out, which is for 491 00:32:40,280 --> 00:32:45,080 Speaker 3: Mary Joe to say, you know, I, yes she did this, 492 00:32:45,720 --> 00:32:49,840 Speaker 3: you know, yes, you know it roomed a big part 493 00:32:49,880 --> 00:32:52,720 Speaker 3: of my life. Yes, it had a lot of impact 494 00:32:52,760 --> 00:32:55,840 Speaker 3: on my kids. Yes it broke up my marriage, but 495 00:32:57,320 --> 00:33:01,800 Speaker 3: in a certain sense, you know, there were she was 496 00:33:01,880 --> 00:33:04,640 Speaker 3: so young. I mean, that's all you really have to say. 497 00:33:04,840 --> 00:33:10,040 Speaker 3: She was seventeen years old, right, right? And you know, 498 00:33:10,200 --> 00:33:13,680 Speaker 3: and you know, I don't know what was in her 499 00:33:13,720 --> 00:33:16,640 Speaker 3: head because I haven't met her and I haven't talked 500 00:33:16,680 --> 00:33:19,640 Speaker 3: to her. I mean I've watched a lot of the 501 00:33:20,000 --> 00:33:24,800 Speaker 3: old footage and seen statements that she has made, but 502 00:33:25,120 --> 00:33:28,960 Speaker 3: I don't I couldn't speak for her, but I can 503 00:33:29,480 --> 00:33:34,280 Speaker 3: say that Mary that having married Joe, watch her come 504 00:33:34,320 --> 00:33:38,120 Speaker 3: to that conclusion and say it both as the character 505 00:33:38,800 --> 00:33:43,920 Speaker 3: and as the real Mary Joe was a priority for her, 506 00:33:44,520 --> 00:33:45,600 Speaker 3: for sure, it was. 507 00:33:45,840 --> 00:33:49,000 Speaker 1: Yeah, Yes, getting back to her daughter. Did her daughter 508 00:33:49,200 --> 00:33:50,880 Speaker 1: have any reactions on set? 509 00:33:51,040 --> 00:33:54,880 Speaker 3: Was she there when you wasn't actually on the set 510 00:33:55,160 --> 00:34:00,480 Speaker 3: when we shot? She was because we shot you know, 511 00:34:00,800 --> 00:34:08,239 Speaker 3: in a distant location, and Jesse, her daughter has a 512 00:34:08,320 --> 00:34:13,800 Speaker 3: life in California and a therapy practice and other things, 513 00:34:13,880 --> 00:34:17,880 Speaker 3: so she couldn't make it. But and also frankly, it 514 00:34:17,920 --> 00:34:22,920 Speaker 3: can be very boring for somebody who's not Ayes. I 515 00:34:22,960 --> 00:34:25,560 Speaker 3: mean everybody thinks it's like I want to go to 516 00:34:25,600 --> 00:34:26,359 Speaker 3: a movie set. 517 00:34:26,440 --> 00:34:29,399 Speaker 1: Yeah. I remember my dad coming to the set first time. 518 00:34:29,480 --> 00:34:31,640 Speaker 1: He called it. It's like watching the grass grow. 519 00:34:31,800 --> 00:34:34,480 Speaker 3: Oh yeah, I like watching paint dry. 520 00:34:34,960 --> 00:34:40,680 Speaker 1: In Joey's sentencing, Amy Fisher spoken implied that Joey knew 521 00:34:40,680 --> 00:34:43,120 Speaker 1: she was planning to shoot Mary Joe and all these 522 00:34:43,280 --> 00:34:45,120 Speaker 1: Do you have any thoughts on that. 523 00:34:45,280 --> 00:34:48,360 Speaker 3: I have no idea whether that was true or not. Yeah, 524 00:34:48,400 --> 00:34:52,280 Speaker 3: And I think, you know, the human in me would 525 00:34:52,320 --> 00:34:53,640 Speaker 3: like to believe that he didn't. 526 00:34:54,000 --> 00:34:57,160 Speaker 1: Right, the human in me would like to believe that also. 527 00:34:58,239 --> 00:35:01,640 Speaker 3: So I have no idea. Yeah, I doubt it. 528 00:35:01,760 --> 00:35:20,560 Speaker 1: Actually, it's been such a long time since the crime occurred. 529 00:35:20,560 --> 00:35:24,799 Speaker 1: But what do you think is the hardest thing for 530 00:35:24,920 --> 00:35:27,560 Speaker 1: Mary Joe about making this film? 531 00:35:28,480 --> 00:35:32,399 Speaker 3: Saying, you know, coming to grips with I think the 532 00:35:32,440 --> 00:35:35,920 Speaker 3: easiest thing was. And then I'll say what I think 533 00:35:35,960 --> 00:35:38,279 Speaker 3: the hardest thing was. I think the easiest thing for 534 00:35:38,360 --> 00:35:41,760 Speaker 3: her was that she felt like she had an opportunity 535 00:35:41,800 --> 00:35:50,680 Speaker 3: to really tell her story and with some distance. So 536 00:35:50,880 --> 00:35:53,680 Speaker 3: I think that part, I think the hardest part was. 537 00:35:54,640 --> 00:35:58,880 Speaker 3: I mean, she was very, very emotional, you know, she 538 00:35:59,000 --> 00:36:03,000 Speaker 3: it took her back through you know, all the things 539 00:36:03,440 --> 00:36:09,080 Speaker 3: right that happened or most and but I and I 540 00:36:09,160 --> 00:36:14,680 Speaker 3: think she I you know, when when we were shooting 541 00:36:14,719 --> 00:36:17,200 Speaker 3: her on camera part and we got to the end 542 00:36:19,239 --> 00:36:23,359 Speaker 3: and she started to cry, you know, she said, you 543 00:36:23,400 --> 00:36:25,880 Speaker 3: could take that out, you don't have to use that, 544 00:36:26,040 --> 00:36:31,600 Speaker 3: And I said, how can I not? You know, that's 545 00:36:31,640 --> 00:36:34,080 Speaker 3: how you felt. And I'm not going to you know, 546 00:36:34,280 --> 00:36:38,600 Speaker 3: erase that, you know, to plase, you know, yes, because 547 00:36:38,600 --> 00:36:41,480 Speaker 3: you think an audience might be at by it. Do 548 00:36:41,520 --> 00:36:41,960 Speaker 3: you know what. 549 00:36:42,080 --> 00:36:47,040 Speaker 1: Absolutely humanizes her on a level That end makes us 550 00:36:47,120 --> 00:36:53,160 Speaker 1: realize just how exploited and forgotten and pushed aside she 551 00:36:53,360 --> 00:37:00,719 Speaker 1: was in this whole, this whole situation, which is imaginable 552 00:37:00,760 --> 00:37:02,880 Speaker 1: when you think that she is the person who was 553 00:37:02,920 --> 00:37:05,360 Speaker 1: the victim of the Christ. She did nothing, She was 554 00:37:05,680 --> 00:37:11,400 Speaker 1: utterly innocent, and somehow the story has always become about 555 00:37:11,640 --> 00:37:12,279 Speaker 1: the other two. 556 00:37:12,800 --> 00:37:18,400 Speaker 3: Well, it's more tabloidy when it's when it's about the 557 00:37:18,440 --> 00:37:23,279 Speaker 3: other two that right, that is and certainly you know 558 00:37:23,360 --> 00:37:27,560 Speaker 3: the National Inquirer was a big deal then. Yes, I 559 00:37:27,640 --> 00:37:30,560 Speaker 3: really didn't have the Internet yet or social media. 560 00:37:31,920 --> 00:37:35,200 Speaker 1: The National Inquirer I remember it, yep. 561 00:37:35,719 --> 00:37:41,720 Speaker 3: Me too. And you know I was working in the world, 562 00:37:42,160 --> 00:37:48,319 Speaker 3: so I I I don't know. I mean when it 563 00:37:48,600 --> 00:37:53,120 Speaker 3: actually happened, I was making family movies for Walt Disney Della, 564 00:37:53,520 --> 00:37:57,000 Speaker 3: So I wasn't in that world until a few years 565 00:37:57,080 --> 00:38:05,279 Speaker 3: later and when I actually started at Lifetime, and I 566 00:38:05,760 --> 00:38:10,960 Speaker 3: I just think that that that was the thing to 567 00:38:11,040 --> 00:38:16,319 Speaker 3: do then, and it was not. I mean, I can 568 00:38:16,320 --> 00:38:20,760 Speaker 3: think of a lot of sensational stories that happened to women, 569 00:38:21,200 --> 00:38:25,359 Speaker 3: you know that you could have blamed them for, right, 570 00:38:25,920 --> 00:38:26,840 Speaker 3: the burning. 571 00:38:26,480 --> 00:38:32,640 Speaker 1: Bed, Oh yes, indeedy Lorena Bobbitt, all of that. Yeah, 572 00:38:32,680 --> 00:38:35,719 Speaker 1: those things that were you know, we just sort of 573 00:38:35,760 --> 00:38:41,560 Speaker 1: didn't question the narrative that was being sold. And it's 574 00:38:41,600 --> 00:38:47,719 Speaker 1: really or And I was also so I'm gonna say 575 00:38:47,719 --> 00:38:50,160 Speaker 1: moved again, but I was by her by Mary Joe 576 00:38:50,239 --> 00:38:53,880 Speaker 1: talking about you know, the SNL sketches, all of the comedy, 577 00:38:53,880 --> 00:38:56,359 Speaker 1: the people turning it the. 578 00:38:55,800 --> 00:38:59,520 Speaker 3: Talk show to SNL. She talked about comedy Skitch that 579 00:38:59,680 --> 00:39:00,520 Speaker 3: comedy sketches. 580 00:39:00,560 --> 00:39:04,000 Speaker 1: Sorry, she didn't call out anyone specifically, yes, to be clear, 581 00:39:04,400 --> 00:39:11,759 Speaker 1: but the comedy. You know, I just can't imagine how 582 00:39:11,760 --> 00:39:13,200 Speaker 1: that felt. 583 00:39:13,719 --> 00:39:17,239 Speaker 3: I can't either. I mean, I hate watching myself doing 584 00:39:17,280 --> 00:39:22,920 Speaker 3: a normal interview. You know, I can't imagine it either. 585 00:39:24,560 --> 00:39:27,880 Speaker 3: But and it was she was just very very open 586 00:39:27,920 --> 00:39:28,959 Speaker 3: about talking. 587 00:39:28,640 --> 00:39:32,840 Speaker 1: About I do think there is as you said, you know, 588 00:39:33,040 --> 00:39:40,000 Speaker 1: the distance and perspective really is key in this. 589 00:39:40,280 --> 00:39:43,359 Speaker 3: And also changing times, you know what I mean, not 590 00:39:43,520 --> 00:39:46,360 Speaker 3: just but it was a while ago, but that times 591 00:39:46,360 --> 00:39:47,080 Speaker 3: have changed. 592 00:39:47,239 --> 00:39:49,399 Speaker 1: Why do you think people are still so fascinated by 593 00:39:49,400 --> 00:39:49,920 Speaker 1: this case? 594 00:39:51,160 --> 00:39:54,840 Speaker 3: Because I think it was it was sort of a 595 00:39:54,960 --> 00:39:59,920 Speaker 3: household name. I mean, people that that are younger than 596 00:40:00,120 --> 00:40:06,359 Speaker 3: I am, you know, vaguely remember it, and people that 597 00:40:06,680 --> 00:40:08,879 Speaker 3: lived in Long Island remember it. 598 00:40:09,400 --> 00:40:11,960 Speaker 1: That's me. I grew up about thirty minutes from where 599 00:40:12,000 --> 00:40:14,560 Speaker 1: this happened, and I was living in Manhattan at the 600 00:40:14,600 --> 00:40:20,719 Speaker 1: time in college and auditioning, and so this was like 601 00:40:21,040 --> 00:40:24,520 Speaker 1: on every paper. And you know, my parents still lived 602 00:40:24,520 --> 00:40:27,799 Speaker 1: on Long Island at the time, so it was everywhere, 603 00:40:28,000 --> 00:40:31,600 Speaker 1: the local, the national. It just was absolutely everywhere and 604 00:40:31,640 --> 00:40:35,280 Speaker 1: so identifiable because that accent. I grew up with that accent. 605 00:40:35,680 --> 00:40:39,200 Speaker 1: It's so specific, just kind of all of it. 606 00:40:39,800 --> 00:40:44,000 Speaker 3: Yes, it was challenging casting people who could. 607 00:40:44,239 --> 00:40:45,920 Speaker 1: Who could do it right because it's not a New 608 00:40:46,000 --> 00:40:48,520 Speaker 1: York accent, it's a Long Island accent. 609 00:40:49,160 --> 00:40:54,800 Speaker 3: Yes, you really have to listen to it carefully. Yeah, 610 00:40:55,000 --> 00:40:57,680 Speaker 3: but yes, that's kind of an unferred There was almost 611 00:40:57,719 --> 00:41:00,720 Speaker 3: like a character. Long Island was almost like a character 612 00:41:00,880 --> 00:41:01,960 Speaker 3: in theory. 613 00:41:02,560 --> 00:41:02,759 Speaker 2: Yep. 614 00:41:03,120 --> 00:41:07,759 Speaker 1: Yeah, because Joey sort of epitomized that. Yes, and you 615 00:41:07,800 --> 00:41:13,799 Speaker 1: know that guy, that Italian Long Island guy who can 616 00:41:13,840 --> 00:41:16,719 Speaker 1: do whatever, and oh he's charming, you know, he just 617 00:41:16,760 --> 00:41:19,080 Speaker 1: sort of gets away with it. So what do you 618 00:41:19,320 --> 00:41:22,239 Speaker 1: hope that the millions of people who were obsessed with 619 00:41:22,320 --> 00:41:24,399 Speaker 1: this and will watch this film, what do you hope 620 00:41:24,440 --> 00:41:25,759 Speaker 1: that they will get out of it? Well? 621 00:41:25,760 --> 00:41:30,759 Speaker 3: First, I hope they watch it and can't help it. 622 00:41:31,320 --> 00:41:34,840 Speaker 3: But secondly, I hope they get out of it the 623 00:41:34,880 --> 00:41:39,120 Speaker 3: things we're actually talking about, yes, which are how times 624 00:41:39,200 --> 00:41:46,760 Speaker 3: can change, how social mores and religious mores can change, 625 00:41:48,360 --> 00:41:53,080 Speaker 3: but can also really in any direction, really influence people's 626 00:41:53,080 --> 00:41:56,719 Speaker 3: opinions of things and the way they look at them. 627 00:41:57,480 --> 00:42:02,080 Speaker 3: And I think that I I just want her to 628 00:42:02,200 --> 00:42:07,560 Speaker 3: be heard authentically. You know as as herself. Yes, and 629 00:42:07,640 --> 00:42:12,560 Speaker 3: I think we you know, we worked really hard to 630 00:42:12,800 --> 00:42:17,680 Speaker 3: have the all the pieces that weren't actually her feel authentic. 631 00:42:18,400 --> 00:42:24,279 Speaker 3: And you know, we had three wonderful leads and and 632 00:42:24,320 --> 00:42:26,839 Speaker 3: I wasn't sure and they were hard to they were 633 00:42:26,840 --> 00:42:30,120 Speaker 3: going to be hard to find because of the accents 634 00:42:30,160 --> 00:42:33,839 Speaker 3: and the mannerisms and how many years the you know, 635 00:42:33,960 --> 00:42:36,680 Speaker 3: the story to a lot of these stories do not 636 00:42:36,880 --> 00:42:41,120 Speaker 3: cover that many years. You know, where you're changing here 637 00:42:41,360 --> 00:42:44,640 Speaker 3: and colors and the way you look and what's going 638 00:42:44,680 --> 00:42:47,239 Speaker 3: on in the world, and you know, so there was 639 00:42:47,320 --> 00:42:50,279 Speaker 3: a lot of production around doing. 640 00:42:50,280 --> 00:42:53,320 Speaker 1: The performances were very, very strong everybody. 641 00:42:54,440 --> 00:42:57,799 Speaker 3: I'm really proud of them. I really am so. 642 00:42:58,560 --> 00:43:03,120 Speaker 1: After everything that Mary Joe has adored and been through. 643 00:43:03,239 --> 00:43:06,800 Speaker 1: What do you think I mean this this idea of closure, 644 00:43:06,840 --> 00:43:08,000 Speaker 1: which I always think. 645 00:43:07,840 --> 00:43:13,600 Speaker 3: Is a farce the somewhat anyway. 646 00:43:13,640 --> 00:43:16,319 Speaker 1: You get some Yeah, like, what do you think it 647 00:43:16,360 --> 00:43:18,400 Speaker 1: looks like for her? And do you think that she 648 00:43:18,680 --> 00:43:21,760 Speaker 1: has gotten some healing from making this film? 649 00:43:22,040 --> 00:43:26,440 Speaker 3: I think she did. I mean she I think because 650 00:43:26,520 --> 00:43:30,840 Speaker 3: she could let herself emotionally experience these things, you know, 651 00:43:31,000 --> 00:43:33,640 Speaker 3: and because of how she felt on the set, and 652 00:43:33,719 --> 00:43:36,680 Speaker 3: because of how she felt when she was, you know, 653 00:43:37,120 --> 00:43:42,680 Speaker 3: delivering the things she wanted to say camera. I think 654 00:43:42,760 --> 00:43:47,040 Speaker 3: she probably got some of that. And I think, you know, 655 00:43:47,160 --> 00:43:53,520 Speaker 3: there's this feeling if you feel totally misunderstood and you 656 00:43:53,560 --> 00:43:56,839 Speaker 3: get a chance to, in your own words, try to 657 00:43:56,880 --> 00:44:00,279 Speaker 3: set it straight. You know, that would feel liberating to 658 00:44:00,360 --> 00:44:03,359 Speaker 3: me in a certain way. She's also, like, you know, 659 00:44:03,719 --> 00:44:06,680 Speaker 3: very close to her daughter and her son, and she's 660 00:44:06,880 --> 00:44:10,080 Speaker 3: very present, you know, she was. I found her. I 661 00:44:10,280 --> 00:44:13,759 Speaker 3: wasn't sure right right what it was going to be like, 662 00:44:14,000 --> 00:44:18,600 Speaker 3: and I found her very very present and really thoughtful, 663 00:44:18,960 --> 00:44:21,160 Speaker 3: you know, about what was going on. 664 00:44:21,800 --> 00:44:25,239 Speaker 1: Oh I love I just love hearing that so much. 665 00:44:25,920 --> 00:44:27,799 Speaker 3: You really, I mean, I wouldn't say it if I 666 00:44:27,920 --> 00:44:29,040 Speaker 3: didn't really believe it. 667 00:44:29,520 --> 00:44:32,680 Speaker 1: So I am Mary Joe Budafuco will premiere on Saturday, 668 00:44:32,800 --> 00:44:37,120 Speaker 1: January seventeenth, at eight pm Eastern and Pacific on Lifetime. 669 00:44:37,360 --> 00:44:40,359 Speaker 1: Everyone must watch it. 670 00:44:40,719 --> 00:44:43,040 Speaker 3: I'm glad you really like the movie, and I hope 671 00:44:43,080 --> 00:44:44,280 Speaker 3: a lot of people will watch. 672 00:44:44,800 --> 00:44:48,280 Speaker 1: I do too. I do too. Thank you so much, Sherry, 673 00:44:48,719 --> 00:44:51,759 Speaker 1: Thank you so much. Okay, I want to hear what 674 00:44:51,840 --> 00:44:54,879 Speaker 1: cases you all are interested in hearing about. What are 675 00:44:54,880 --> 00:44:57,239 Speaker 1: you watching that you want us to talk about what 676 00:44:57,320 --> 00:44:59,839 Speaker 1: actors or producers or directors do you want to hear. 677 00:45:00,680 --> 00:45:03,800 Speaker 1: Hit us up at our DMS at Killer Thriller Pod 678 00:45:03,880 --> 00:45:07,279 Speaker 1: on Instagram and TikTok and let us know. Make sure 679 00:45:07,320 --> 00:45:10,280 Speaker 1: to follow the pod on socials and subscribe to Amy 680 00:45:10,320 --> 00:45:14,560 Speaker 1: and TJ Presents wherever you listen to podcasts that will 681 00:45:14,600 --> 00:45:17,080 Speaker 1: wrap us up for today until next time.