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Speaker 1: Hi, I'm Ethan Natalman, and this is Psychoactive, a production

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Speaker 1: of My Heart Radio and Protozoa Pictures. Psychoactive is the

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Speaker 1: show where we talk about all things drugs. But any

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Speaker 1: of view is expressed here do not represent those of

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Speaker 1: my Heart Media, Protozoa Pictures, or their executives and employees. Indeed, heed,

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Speaker 1: as an inveterate contrarian, I can tell you they may

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Speaker 1: not even represent my own And nothing contained in this

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Speaker 1: show should be used as medical advice or encouragement to

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Speaker 1: use any type of drugs. Hello, Psychoactive listeners. So today

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Speaker 1: we're gonna talk about c b D everything you ever

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Speaker 1: wanted to know, and maybe we're afraid to ask or

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Speaker 1: I'm sure you're getting good answers about now. My guest

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Speaker 1: is a real expert on CBD who I have enormous

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Speaker 1: respect for. His name's Barton Lee, and I first heard

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Speaker 1: about Martin Lee when he wrote a book in the

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Speaker 1: mid eighties called Acid Dreams, The Complete Social History of LSD,

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Speaker 1: the c I of the Sixties and Beyond, which was

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Speaker 1: you know, really became one of the sort of classic

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Speaker 1: books in the field. And then about ten years ago

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Speaker 1: he did another book, an award winning book called Smoke Signals,

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Speaker 1: A Social History of Marijuana, Medical, recreational and scientific um Now,

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Speaker 1: Martin in recent years create an organization called Project cb D.

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Speaker 1: It's a fantastic website chock full of tons of information.

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Speaker 1: He's been my go to person whenever I have questions

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Speaker 1: about this. So Martin, thanks so much for joining me

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Speaker 1: on Psychoactive. My pleasure. He's I've been looking forward to

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Speaker 1: this actually, So could you just explain what is c

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Speaker 1: B D well. CBD is short for cannaba dial that's

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Speaker 1: the scientific name, and cb D and T and C

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Speaker 1: are both components of the cannabis plant, part of a

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Speaker 1: group of compounds called abinoids. T, C and CBD are

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Speaker 1: the most prominent and well known cannabinoids in the cannabis plant.

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Speaker 1: If you look at the molecules, you know, the structure

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Speaker 1: side by side, you'd be hard trested to notice the difference.

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Speaker 1: It's it's very, very minor. They they have the same

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Speaker 1: atoms basically in history, and you look at the original

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Speaker 1: strains of cannabis, the so called land race strains. Before

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Speaker 1: UH cannabis became popular in the United States in the

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Speaker 1: nineteen sixties, it was often the case that a variety

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Speaker 1: of cannabis would have relatively equal amounts of th C

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Speaker 1: and c b D, and these plants were exquisite in

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Speaker 1: terms of the the psychoactive effects they conferred, much loved

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Speaker 1: by people today even still if you can get hold

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Speaker 1: of them, names like Acapulco Gold come to mind. Uh.

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Speaker 1: These are the original land race strains, um. But over time,

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Speaker 1: what happened in in the late sixties early seventies when

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Speaker 1: people started to I'm amateur corticulture started breeding cannabis strains,

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Speaker 1: they made an effort, uh, not consciously to breed the

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Speaker 1: cb D out of the strains, but to give a

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Speaker 1: kind of accentuated high, the perfect high they were looking for,

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Speaker 1: and they kind of inadvertently pushed the cb D into

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Speaker 1: kind of a recessive genetic mode. So we ended up

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Speaker 1: with a lot of THHC dominant cannabis, which has significant

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Speaker 1: medical medical properties. But we kind of lost the access

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Speaker 1: to CBD over time, and these the CBD was rediscovered,

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Speaker 1: you might say, um in around and then began to

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Speaker 1: be reintroduced into the supply. But CBD is not intoxicating,

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Speaker 1: unlike t C, which is an intoxicating compound. But I

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Speaker 1: think it's misleading and incorrect to describe c b D

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Speaker 1: as non psychoactive. That became kind of a marketing slogan.

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Speaker 1: I think for the emerging CBD industry they want to

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Speaker 1: distinguish it from th HC So the CBD is non psychoactive,

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Speaker 1: t C is psychoactive. But actually CBD is shown to

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Speaker 1: have anti anxiety properties, antidepressant properties UM and if you

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Speaker 1: consume a compound that can change one's mood and make

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Speaker 1: one less anxious or less oppressive, it's clearly then having

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Speaker 1: a psychoactive impact. It's just not an intoxicating impact. And

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Speaker 1: I think that's an important distinction, because there's been an

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Speaker 1: effort or emphasis on trying to bifurcate CBD. It's separated

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Speaker 1: from T T H c UH, and I think that's misleading.

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Speaker 1: I think one of the problems there is that you know,

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Speaker 1: initially again that the marketing pitches will CBD it's not psychoactive,

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Speaker 1: it will eliminate the high. And originally when we were

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Speaker 1: involved at Project CBD and reintroducing CBD into the medical

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Speaker 1: cannabis supply in California, the emphasis was not so much

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Speaker 1: as that CBD UM didn't get you high. It's that

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Speaker 1: CBD helped manage this psychoactivity, uh, that it can lessen

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Speaker 1: the psychoactivity um, but not necessarily eliminate all of it,

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Speaker 1: and that that was the point. To manage the psychoactivity

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Speaker 1: of cannabis, which is really the the first challenge for

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Speaker 1: a person using cannabis for therapeutic use um to limit

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Speaker 1: the intoxicating effects so it's tolerable. If indeed that's important

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Speaker 1: to the person. If one's taken straight c b D,

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Speaker 1: is it possible to get high intoxicated in that sense

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Speaker 1: like marijuana hire or something resembling that. With just straight

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Speaker 1: cb D, even a large amount with no th h D,

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Speaker 1: one shouldn't have an intoxicating effect if you take a

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Speaker 1: straight CBD or pure cbd um. There's a little caveat

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Speaker 1: to that, but maybe we'll get into later in that

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Speaker 1: when CBD is extracted from the plant, whether it's hamp

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Speaker 1: or cannabis, again, it shouldn't If it's just pure CBD,

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Speaker 1: no intoxication. But if it's made synthetically in a lab,

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Speaker 1: which I think is the coming wave in the future

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Speaker 1: for CBD isolets um. Depending how it's made, it actually

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Speaker 1: could have an intoxicating effect. Because not to get too

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Speaker 1: far deep into the science right now, you know there's

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Speaker 1: a certain um natural form of t C that exists

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Speaker 1: in the plant, all same within CBD, N, T A

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Speaker 1: C both, but when you create it synthetically, it can

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Speaker 1: create versions of c B, d N t h C

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Speaker 1: that are non natural versions of the plant. And what

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Speaker 1: happens in the lab when you synthesize it, it creates

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Speaker 1: what's called a racemic mixture. Um So, just to step

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Speaker 1: back for a moment, you know, the CBD and the

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Speaker 1: t C molecule have like left handed and right handed versions,

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Speaker 1: and in nature it only curs in one way. But

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Speaker 1: if you have the non natural version, that can actually

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Speaker 1: have a very powerful effect on on the receptors that

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Speaker 1: gets you high. Now are those things out on the

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Speaker 1: market today? I mean, I thought I was at a

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Speaker 1: part of the night and some woman I met with claiming,

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Speaker 1: oh I get high c CBD. Was that just kind

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Speaker 1: of imagined on her parts of the placebo effect? Or

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Speaker 1: was there are there actually things in the market that

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Speaker 1: could be doing that Now, I would say it's most

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Speaker 1: likely imagined, but it's possible again if it's a synthetically

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Speaker 1: created molecule. You have not only actually left handed and

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Speaker 1: right handed versions of the molecule which sort of fit

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Speaker 1: in differently into the receptor and could do different things.

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Speaker 1: And in fact, one of the metabolites, it's been shown

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Speaker 1: in a laboratory of these alternative versions of CBD, non

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Speaker 1: natural versions, has a more powerful effect than thh C

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Speaker 1: on the receptor. So it's conceivable that, uh, that that

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Speaker 1: will make you feel high. And I've heard from people

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Speaker 1: that they purchase a CBD product. It's advertised as being

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Speaker 1: on a whole plant spectrum, meaning other components of the

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Speaker 1: kind of canvas plant, and they're not just the CBD.

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Speaker 1: Yet when we tested some of these, they only had

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Speaker 1: CBD in them um and the person claimed that they

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Speaker 1: got high from it and made them uncomfortable. That this

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Speaker 1: is a person that was and particularly fond of th HC.

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Speaker 1: Not everybody is, So I don't know. I think this

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Speaker 1: is something that has to be looked at very carefully

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Speaker 1: and regulated very carefully because it could be dangerous. So

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Speaker 1: just going back to the the innovation that was happening,

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Speaker 1: you know among horticultural is trying to get stronger marijuana.

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Speaker 1: Back in the seventies, eighties when they were trying to

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Speaker 1: kick up the th HC, did that sort of inevitably

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Speaker 1: lower Remember hearing this, I don't know as a rumor

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Speaker 1: or not, that when you try to kick up the

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Speaker 1: TC and the plant, it's going to be knocking down

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Speaker 1: the cbd um And was that originally true and no

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Speaker 1: longer true or is that sort of an edible part

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Speaker 1: of that process of trying to increase th HC potency.

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Speaker 1: It's kind of an either or thing. I mean, genetically,

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Speaker 1: when when the plant is developing, you know, there's only

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Speaker 1: a certain amount of cannabinoids that can be in the plant.

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Speaker 1: Generally we think of it as maybe you can push

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Speaker 1: it up to thirty, but you can't have both. So

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Speaker 1: you have certain strains that are kind of half and

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Speaker 1: half to fly equal amounts of CBD and t C.

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Speaker 1: But I remember hearing at some point years ago that

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Speaker 1: there were more and more of the very high th

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Speaker 1: HC plants and that was knocking down the cb D.

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Speaker 1: If it was an either or factor that was resulting

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Speaker 1: in people becoming more anxious and things like that when

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Speaker 1: they smoked marijuana, that sort that was that was that?

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Speaker 1: Was there some truth to that? Yeah, I think that's

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Speaker 1: essentially correct with what happened, And it wasn't that it

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Speaker 1: was the people were intending to knock out the CBD.

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Speaker 1: Um It's more, you know, the the breeding in those

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Speaker 1: days before we had access to analytical labs that can

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Speaker 1: tell us actually what's in the plant was a lot

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Speaker 1: of it was this as much art, if not more so,

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Speaker 1: than science, you know, and people were creating different versions

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Speaker 1: of the plant and testing it and see what they like.

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Speaker 1: They they picked and choose, and they sort of inadvertently

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Speaker 1: bred the cb D into very low amounts Genetically. You

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Speaker 1: could think of it this way, if if the th

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Speaker 1: C dominant plants or the brown eyes and the CBD

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Speaker 1: plants the blue eyes, they kind of bread the blue

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Speaker 1: eyes out of it, except those genes were recessive. So

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Speaker 1: when you have all this kind of crazy intermixing of

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Speaker 1: so many different strains of being bred, inevitably a few

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Speaker 1: blue eye plants would pop up. And that's what happened

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Speaker 1: in two thousand nine two ten when we identified a

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Speaker 1: few plants that had a significant amount of CBD in them.

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Speaker 1: And these were plants that were generally what we call

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Speaker 1: the type two's of the plants that had roughly equal

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Speaker 1: amounts of CB D N t C. Type ones I

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Speaker 1: t C low CBD. Type two is mix of each

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Speaker 1: type three's high CBD low t C. When once once

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Speaker 1: the hemp entered the picture, uh, in some ways there

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Speaker 1: was less focus on marijuana plants quote unquote with significant

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Speaker 1: amounts of CBD that kind of fell off the radar

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Speaker 1: and got short shrifted a bit, although I think that

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Speaker 1: will come back in the future. I think because I mean,

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Speaker 1: you know, al and hemp. I always thought, you know,

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Speaker 1: hemp was basically to my mind, it was low you know,

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Speaker 1: low th HC marijuana growing wild all over the place

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Speaker 1: and being cultivated in many parts of the world, but

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Speaker 1: banned in the US until you know, I guess with

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Speaker 1: the farm bill um and often it's being used for

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Speaker 1: industrial and agricultural purposes. But it wasn't the industrial hemp.

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Speaker 1: Was it that was being associated with CBD or was

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Speaker 1: it originally or was it incorrectly associated with that? What's

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Speaker 1: the story about that hemp plant and CBD relationship when

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Speaker 1: you think about it before, when I'm referring to as

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Speaker 1: the rediscovery of CBD, industrial hemp around the world, wasn't

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Speaker 1: grown for cannabinoid content. It was grown for fiber, for

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Speaker 1: the best heard and also in some cases for the

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Speaker 1: seed oil. But this was not uh, this isn't really

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Speaker 1: little to do with CBD or t a C. This

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Speaker 1: was not the focus of of industrial hemp. But what

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Speaker 1: happened is when you consider the different categories of him

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Speaker 1: they were basically two the hemp grown for fiber and

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Speaker 1: hemp grown for seed oil. Hemp grown for fiber is

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Speaker 1: really useless in terms of extracting for CBD or th

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Speaker 1: HC or any cannabinoid. These are plants that sort of

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Speaker 1: look like bamboo almost shoots with with just a little

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Speaker 1: bit of foliage. Um. Then you also have the seed

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Speaker 1: oil plants. They're a little bit different. They're a little

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Speaker 1: bit bushier. And if you actually analyze the content if

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Speaker 1: the cannabinoids and the seed oil plants, the plants that's

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Speaker 1: grown for extracting oil used for soap or paint or

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Speaker 1: also nutritional purposes, they have a little more CBD than

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Speaker 1: the fiber plants, maybe three three and a half percent

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Speaker 1: if you measured it in an analytical lab. But there's

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Speaker 1: always a few outlayers uh that would would pop up

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Speaker 1: a little bit higher with the cb D maybe up

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Speaker 1: to six or seven percent that kind of a little

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Speaker 1: bit wild in the field, and that's what became the

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Speaker 1: cb D from hamp uh those type of plants kind

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Speaker 1: of the offshoots of enola or seed other seed oil

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Speaker 1: varietals um and that's what became UM Charlotte's web initially

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Speaker 1: and some of the more well known that was the

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Speaker 1: most well known strain of of hemp early on, you know,

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Speaker 1: you know, when it first burst into national consciousness in

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Speaker 1: and those same plants had th C in them as well,

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Speaker 1: added comparable amounts or what not much. You know, in

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Speaker 1: hemp in general, there's not much resin in there compared

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Speaker 1: to a marijuana plant, and that's where the cb D,

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Speaker 1: n t C lives in the plant. In the resin

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Speaker 1: hemp is low resin cannabis. Marijuana quote unquote is high

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Speaker 1: resin cannabis. That's how I distinguished them. Resin is in

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Speaker 1: the flower tops of cannabis. You know, that's where the

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Speaker 1: magic is. That's where the cannabinoids are um. If you're

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Speaker 1: getting cb D or thh C from cannabis, it's coming

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Speaker 1: from the resin in the plant. When you go back

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Speaker 1: and look get the actual definition of marijuana within age

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Speaker 1: from the Marijuana Tacks Act of seven and the exact

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Speaker 1: two sentenced definition was poured it over to the Control

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Speaker 1: Substance Act in nineteen seventy. It mentions resin three times

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Speaker 1: in the definition of marijuana. And it's very clear that

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Speaker 1: anything to do with the resin was considered illegal. That

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Speaker 1: was prohibited if there was part of the cannabis plant

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Speaker 1: um it was just the stalk and no resin. And

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Speaker 1: if it came from a plant that that was low

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Speaker 1: resin plant, that anything in the plant that had nothing

250
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Speaker 1: to do with the resin that was considered legal according

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Speaker 1: to the Marijuanattacks Act. Essentially, it means that CBD was

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Speaker 1: made illegal in nineteen thirty seven according to the Marijuana

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Speaker 1: Tacks Act, but it's peculiar because CBD actually hadn't been

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Speaker 1: discovered yet. It was only discovered in nineteen forty by

255
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Speaker 1: Roger Adams, the chemist at University of Illinois. So CBD

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Speaker 1: was made illegal before it was discovered, simply because of

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Speaker 1: the banning of resident. That Marijuana Tax Act banned anything

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Speaker 1: to do with the resin of the plant, any derivative

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Speaker 1: from the resident and the resident itself. But the resident

260
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Speaker 1: is where ccbd lives in the plant, in residents where

261
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Speaker 1: th C is in the plant. So anything to do

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Speaker 1: with the resin was considered illegal. Um. And the way

263
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Speaker 1: that the distinction between hemp and marijuana plays out legally

264
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Speaker 1: now you have an artificial wine drawn across the plant,

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Speaker 1: so that any plant was zero point three t C

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Speaker 1: or less is considered hemp, where if it has more

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Speaker 1: than that amount of t C, it's considered marijuana. But Mark,

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Speaker 1: I thought the entire hemp plant was actually banned for

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Speaker 1: many decades. Welln't because it produced resin, even if it

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Speaker 1: was a tiny amount. I se. So nobody had figured

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Speaker 1: out how to produce hemp plants and hemp stocks or

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Speaker 1: industrial purposes that would consistently be below point three percent.

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Speaker 1: The law didn't say anything to do. It didn't have

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Speaker 1: anything to do with Europe with that only comes later

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Speaker 1: with the farm bill. Um. You know, the law was

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Speaker 1: all about resident Anything to do with residon is illegal

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Speaker 1: now because the way things played out politically with the

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Speaker 1: Federal Bureau of Narcotics and then in its successors, they

279
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Speaker 1: went whole log and they basically banned hemp even though

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Speaker 1: parts of hemp had no residented UM and which is

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Speaker 1: also why people could you know, import hemp products which

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Speaker 1: were totally sort of you know, cleansed of any th

283
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Speaker 1: C that was legal, right, Yes, and then when, of course,

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Speaker 1: I guess that was a little historical period during World

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Speaker 1: War Two when he was government encouraged farmers to briefly

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Speaker 1: grow hemp because it was part of the war effort,

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Speaker 1: but then rebanded thereafter, and I guess it essentially stayed

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Speaker 1: on banned until just a few years ago, except for

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Speaker 1: maybe some state authorized research programs that age. With that

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Speaker 1: farm Farm Bill from that year, it became legal to

291
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Speaker 1: grow hemp um, particularly for CBD H extraction, and that's

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Speaker 1: really what motivated the interest in the CBD that that's

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Speaker 1: what led to the Farm Bill, that the explosion of

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Speaker 1: popular interest in the CBD. But but the Farm Bill

295
00:17:19,200 --> 00:17:23,240
Speaker 1: is inherently flawed really because I compare it to like

296
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Speaker 1: a software patch that's created two improve or or remedy

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Speaker 1: defective software. In this case, that the fact of software

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Speaker 1: is the Control Substances Act, except you can't really fix it. Yeah,

299
00:17:37,240 --> 00:17:40,080
Speaker 1: you can't really fix that with a software patch because

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Speaker 1: it leads to other problems and then you have to

301
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Speaker 1: have another patch that fixed the software patch and add infinitum.

302
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Speaker 1: What it's done is create a situation where people who

303
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Speaker 1: wanted to grow hemp to extract cannabinoids, in particularly CBD UM,

304
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Speaker 1: they have a lot of problems they had to face.

305
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Speaker 1: I mean, if you have a robust plant, a cannabis plant,

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Speaker 1: they don't like. It doesn't really conform very easily to

307
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Speaker 1: this politically correct zero point three limit. You know that

308
00:18:10,720 --> 00:18:13,480
Speaker 1: it is an artificial limit. You know, in in European

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Speaker 1: Union it's zero point two c only that's allowed. In

310
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Speaker 1: Switzerland they allowed one percent. It's it's it's an arbitrary

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Speaker 1: number that doesn't have a scientific basis. UM. That's really

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Speaker 1: imposed in US law, I think to keep quote unquote

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Speaker 1: marijuana illegal, to distinguish hemp from marijuana that way, when

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00:18:33,040 --> 00:18:37,919
Speaker 1: originally it was about resent content, not about th C content. UM.

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Speaker 1: And this has caused a lot of problems in terms

316
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Speaker 1: of UM, the industry getting off the ground, UM and

317
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Speaker 1: just how it's really how we relate to it legally.

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Speaker 1: We'll be talking more after we hear this. You say,

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Speaker 1: there were two farm bills one and one, but you

320
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Speaker 1: have this explosion right of hemp production happening. I think

321
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Speaker 1: all sorts of people trying to get into it for

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Speaker 1: industrial purposes, but also I guess CBD purposes. And then

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Speaker 1: a few years ago you have this explosion of CBD.

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Speaker 1: So are they linked Because most of the CBD then

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00:19:29,520 --> 00:19:35,280
Speaker 1: or even now was coming from hemp plants or what

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Speaker 1: plans that were still that were legal under federal law

327
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Speaker 1: or not. I think that the the the momentum, the

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Speaker 1: popular momentum for CBD had been building for some time.

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Speaker 1: It really ever since the CNN broadcasts that showed children

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Speaker 1: with severe epilepsy or helped by CBD, almost in a

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Speaker 1: miraculous way, and every since that time the CBD pierced

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Speaker 1: national and international consciousness. Prior to then, very few people

333
00:20:07,200 --> 00:20:10,479
Speaker 1: have heard about CBD at all. So um, it had

334
00:20:10,520 --> 00:20:12,919
Speaker 1: been building and and and it's really what led to

335
00:20:13,040 --> 00:20:17,440
Speaker 1: the passage of the Farm Bills, in which is quite

336
00:20:17,520 --> 00:20:20,440
Speaker 1: limited what you could do with growing hemp at that point,

337
00:20:20,600 --> 00:20:24,840
Speaker 1: and then which legalized the growing of hemp both for

338
00:20:24,920 --> 00:20:29,399
Speaker 1: cannabinoid content and the classic industrial purposes. The problem is

339
00:20:30,040 --> 00:20:34,120
Speaker 1: uh that the kind of hemp that they were allowed

340
00:20:34,160 --> 00:20:39,159
Speaker 1: people to grow was not the optimal source for extracting CBD.

341
00:20:39,560 --> 00:20:42,720
Speaker 1: You know it again, when you look back to those

342
00:20:42,720 --> 00:20:47,359
Speaker 1: original noteworthy strains like Charlotte's Webb, you're talking six seven

343
00:20:48,080 --> 00:20:52,640
Speaker 1: cb D content by Dryway at most. When you compare

344
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Speaker 1: that to a marijuana quote unquote plant with the high

345
00:20:56,359 --> 00:21:00,760
Speaker 1: cb D content um you were talking about, and CBD

346
00:21:00,880 --> 00:21:06,399
Speaker 1: by Drywaight with about one and one at one t C,

347
00:21:06,560 --> 00:21:09,600
Speaker 1: which is over the limits for hemp, but still it's

348
00:21:09,960 --> 00:21:12,639
Speaker 1: it's still very low to h C and it's the

349
00:21:12,680 --> 00:21:16,760
Speaker 1: best source of CBD. So what you had was people

350
00:21:16,840 --> 00:21:22,320
Speaker 1: growing hemp um but not optimal to extract, so they

351
00:21:22,760 --> 00:21:25,840
Speaker 1: always were trying to push the plant for higher cb

352
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Speaker 1: D content, and eventually what what happened is that they

353
00:21:30,720 --> 00:21:36,560
Speaker 1: took these um high CBD marijuana strains um and try

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00:21:36,640 --> 00:21:39,040
Speaker 1: to breed them in such a way as to draw

355
00:21:39,200 --> 00:21:42,840
Speaker 1: down the THHC levels, and it's very difficult to do that.

356
00:21:43,320 --> 00:21:47,000
Speaker 1: So farmers were growing these plants and they had to

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Speaker 1: play cat and mouse with the authorities because the plants

358
00:21:52,600 --> 00:21:55,000
Speaker 1: tended to go hot. You know, hemp plants like that.

359
00:21:55,040 --> 00:21:57,040
Speaker 1: They don't want to stay at the point three percent

360
00:21:57,119 --> 00:21:59,080
Speaker 1: t C. They want to go up to that one

361
00:21:59,119 --> 00:22:02,439
Speaker 1: percent tight C level um. That's the natural form of

362
00:22:02,520 --> 00:22:07,440
Speaker 1: cannabis for these types of varietals, and um, it really

363
00:22:07,440 --> 00:22:10,560
Speaker 1: made it difficult for growers. Uh. They would grow plants

364
00:22:10,600 --> 00:22:12,440
Speaker 1: they go that would go beyond the th h C

365
00:22:12,880 --> 00:22:15,679
Speaker 1: limit and they'd have to destroy them, and you know,

366
00:22:15,840 --> 00:22:18,359
Speaker 1: it became kind of a mess. And so so they

367
00:22:18,400 --> 00:22:22,000
Speaker 1: would actually try to cheat the regulators to to keep

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00:22:22,040 --> 00:22:25,080
Speaker 1: them in the ground, um, just as long as they

369
00:22:25,119 --> 00:22:28,359
Speaker 1: could to maximize the cb D content. But then it

370
00:22:28,640 --> 00:22:32,000
Speaker 1: pushed the THHC too high and uh, and they would

371
00:22:32,000 --> 00:22:35,760
Speaker 1: try to evade the Agriculture department representatives that would test

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00:22:35,760 --> 00:22:40,080
Speaker 1: the the plants, and it became very very difficult. Is

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00:22:40,080 --> 00:22:44,160
Speaker 1: it's still going on now, yes, so to uh, yes

374
00:22:44,200 --> 00:22:46,879
Speaker 1: it is going on. There was a study published by

375
00:22:46,960 --> 00:22:52,040
Speaker 1: the University of Minnesota scientists working there that concluded that

376
00:22:53,680 --> 00:22:57,560
Speaker 1: the genetics of the so called high CBD hem plants

377
00:22:57,560 --> 00:23:02,040
Speaker 1: were actually marijuana genetics. UM. And when you're when you're

378
00:23:02,040 --> 00:23:04,520
Speaker 1: playing with these type of plants, you you can't grow

379
00:23:04,560 --> 00:23:07,800
Speaker 1: them to full turn. Otherwise again, you you exceed the

380
00:23:07,800 --> 00:23:11,080
Speaker 1: the th AC limits. The longer the plants staying ground,

381
00:23:11,200 --> 00:23:15,040
Speaker 1: the more cannabinoids that are in their more cbdn let's

382
00:23:15,160 --> 00:23:17,479
Speaker 1: take a break on this, but let's go to the evidence,

383
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Speaker 1: because my understanding is that the only f d A

384
00:23:22,000 --> 00:23:25,880
Speaker 1: approved CBD product, right is the thing that GW pharmaceutical

385
00:23:26,240 --> 00:23:29,520
Speaker 1: started working on twenty five years ago. Right, it's the statotacts,

386
00:23:29,600 --> 00:23:33,000
Speaker 1: I guess and and epidolens um, which is found you know,

387
00:23:33,080 --> 00:23:38,240
Speaker 1: helpful in terms of dealing with children's epileptic conditions. Is

388
00:23:38,280 --> 00:23:40,280
Speaker 1: that right? Is that still the basically the only one

389
00:23:40,320 --> 00:23:44,080
Speaker 1: that's approved. Correct. That is a pharmaceutical version of CBD

390
00:23:44,119 --> 00:23:48,080
Speaker 1: that's approved by the f d A specifically to treat

391
00:23:48,240 --> 00:23:53,679
Speaker 1: children with three types of severe forms of epilepsy, and

392
00:23:53,720 --> 00:23:56,840
Speaker 1: it can only be used for that purpose. Um. And

393
00:23:57,000 --> 00:23:59,439
Speaker 1: I think that's a positive development to the extent that

394
00:23:59,480 --> 00:24:03,120
Speaker 1: this can really help children with these terrible diseases. It's

395
00:24:03,119 --> 00:24:05,400
Speaker 1: proven to that they went through all the rigorous tests

396
00:24:05,440 --> 00:24:07,360
Speaker 1: that you have to to be proved by the FDA

397
00:24:08,520 --> 00:24:11,720
Speaker 1: as a as a pharmaceutical. I don't think that the

398
00:24:11,720 --> 00:24:15,400
Speaker 1: g W Pharmaceuticals, which was formed in the late nineties

399
00:24:15,440 --> 00:24:21,200
Speaker 1: and nineties, was focusing initially on this kind of CBD isolate,

400
00:24:21,280 --> 00:24:25,240
Speaker 1: which is what epidialects of the pharmaceutical you just mentioned,

401
00:24:25,400 --> 00:24:28,800
Speaker 1: That's what it is. Initially they were focused on a

402
00:24:29,240 --> 00:24:32,879
Speaker 1: tincture that had roughly equal amounts of cb D and

403
00:24:33,000 --> 00:24:36,800
Speaker 1: t C. It's called sat Effects, and it is approved

404
00:24:36,880 --> 00:24:41,080
Speaker 1: as a pharmaceutical in over a couple of dozen countries,

405
00:24:41,119 --> 00:24:43,440
Speaker 1: but not in the United States. It's proved for use

406
00:24:43,440 --> 00:24:48,400
Speaker 1: in neuropathic pain, in um, multiple sclerosis, cancer, and other

407
00:24:48,440 --> 00:24:52,159
Speaker 1: conditions like that, but it's not available for use in

408
00:24:52,200 --> 00:24:55,399
Speaker 1: the United States. And it's not your CBD. Sata x

409
00:24:55,480 --> 00:24:57,480
Speaker 1: is mainly cb D n t C with with a

410
00:24:57,560 --> 00:25:01,800
Speaker 1: smidgeon of everything else. And you know, frankly, I don't

411
00:25:01,800 --> 00:25:04,960
Speaker 1: think epidialects is a particularly good medicine in terms of

412
00:25:05,000 --> 00:25:08,840
Speaker 1: its cannabinot content. It's basically just pure CBD, but also

413
00:25:08,920 --> 00:25:12,120
Speaker 1: has supralose in it, which is an artificial sweetener which

414
00:25:12,440 --> 00:25:16,520
Speaker 1: disrupts the microbiome, you know, has adverse health effects. So

415
00:25:16,560 --> 00:25:20,880
Speaker 1: when they're giving this to children, um, whatever it's doing

416
00:25:20,920 --> 00:25:23,359
Speaker 1: for the epilepsy, it's also doing other things that aren't

417
00:25:23,400 --> 00:25:27,360
Speaker 1: so great. And there was a very interesting study UM

418
00:25:27,600 --> 00:25:31,199
Speaker 1: done out of Brazil. Scientists in Brazil did a meta analysis,

419
00:25:31,240 --> 00:25:32,960
Speaker 1: which is considered a very you know, kind of a

420
00:25:33,040 --> 00:25:37,040
Speaker 1: gold standard scientific type of study, and they compare it

421
00:25:37,119 --> 00:25:43,040
Speaker 1: epidialects its effectiveness to full spectrum c B D rich

422
00:25:43,119 --> 00:25:47,199
Speaker 1: oil meaning hemp oil that was hemp derived oil presumably

423
00:25:47,240 --> 00:25:51,600
Speaker 1: from hemp UH that was mainly CBD, very little th C,

424
00:25:51,840 --> 00:25:54,120
Speaker 1: but a little bit of everything else that's in the plant.

425
00:25:55,119 --> 00:25:57,960
Speaker 1: And they found that when they compared the full spectrum

426
00:25:58,000 --> 00:26:01,960
Speaker 1: CBD oil to the isolate, that both were effective in

427
00:26:02,040 --> 00:26:07,040
Speaker 1: dealing with these catastrophic epileptic conditions remarkably so. And you

428
00:26:07,119 --> 00:26:10,919
Speaker 1: were talking about children from nothing else helped um, but

429
00:26:12,200 --> 00:26:16,200
Speaker 1: these isolate required five times the amount of CBD compared

430
00:26:16,240 --> 00:26:20,159
Speaker 1: to what was in the full spectrum products UH to

431
00:26:20,240 --> 00:26:24,800
Speaker 1: be effective. So when you talk about CBD as an isolate,

432
00:26:25,200 --> 00:26:28,920
Speaker 1: which is what epidialec says, it might pass muster easily

433
00:26:29,000 --> 00:26:31,879
Speaker 1: with regulate laters. It might be something that the f

434
00:26:32,040 --> 00:26:35,080
Speaker 1: d A is won't frown upon that's coming from a

435
00:26:35,119 --> 00:26:38,520
Speaker 1: cannabis plant or a hemp plant. But it's not necessarily

436
00:26:38,560 --> 00:26:42,280
Speaker 1: the most effective or the best means of using CBD,

437
00:26:42,480 --> 00:26:46,240
Speaker 1: even for epilepsy. And I think it's important to to

438
00:26:46,359 --> 00:26:51,320
Speaker 1: highlight because the CBD industry itself in some ways is

439
00:26:51,400 --> 00:26:55,480
Speaker 1: lobbying for these isolates, particularly in Europe, which is an unfortunate,

440
00:26:56,119 --> 00:26:59,160
Speaker 1: but it's a game that's played and that's still being

441
00:26:59,160 --> 00:27:03,000
Speaker 1: played whenever you're dealing with cannabinoids. Well, it's I guess

442
00:27:03,040 --> 00:27:05,400
Speaker 1: that's part of the regulatory challenge, right, because if there's

443
00:27:05,440 --> 00:27:09,320
Speaker 1: reason to believe that it's the entourage effect of the

444
00:27:09,400 --> 00:27:12,719
Speaker 1: multiple of TCCBD and their elements in the cannabis plant

445
00:27:13,200 --> 00:27:15,919
Speaker 1: is probably something that FDA and other regulatory agencies just

446
00:27:15,960 --> 00:27:19,200
Speaker 1: aren't they good at figuring out how to you know, regulate,

447
00:27:19,200 --> 00:27:21,600
Speaker 1: how to evaluate. I mean, let's face that the FDA

448
00:27:21,880 --> 00:27:27,040
Speaker 1: was not established to regulate plant medicine. It was that's

449
00:27:27,080 --> 00:27:30,040
Speaker 1: not what it's about, UM And interestingly, I don't think

450
00:27:30,040 --> 00:27:32,360
Speaker 1: it should be in the business of regulating plant medicines.

451
00:27:32,400 --> 00:27:35,960
Speaker 1: Probably need another kind of agency or something UM. But yes,

452
00:27:36,160 --> 00:27:38,959
Speaker 1: the problem with the FDA now and CBD is that

453
00:27:39,359 --> 00:27:43,800
Speaker 1: the f d A privileges the isolate over these more

454
00:27:43,880 --> 00:27:47,040
Speaker 1: complex or what they call the the full spectrum or

455
00:27:47,359 --> 00:27:49,600
Speaker 1: the raw plant that has a lot of different components

456
00:27:49,600 --> 00:27:52,679
Speaker 1: in it. This presents problems, you know, for people working

457
00:27:52,680 --> 00:27:57,160
Speaker 1: in pharmaceutical drug development. They don't generally like carnabinoids. They're

458
00:27:57,240 --> 00:28:01,240
Speaker 1: messy cannabinoids, and particularly CBD does so many different things

459
00:28:01,600 --> 00:28:04,960
Speaker 1: in the body that you know, and and pharmaceutical development

460
00:28:04,960 --> 00:28:08,320
Speaker 1: likes to take one compound and harness it to have

461
00:28:08,480 --> 00:28:12,960
Speaker 1: one particular effect. With CBD, you're having dozens and dozens

462
00:28:13,000 --> 00:28:15,879
Speaker 1: of effects within the body, you know, even pure CBD.

463
00:28:16,240 --> 00:28:19,080
Speaker 1: So it just it's it's messier, it's more problematic from

464
00:28:19,119 --> 00:28:22,240
Speaker 1: the pharmaceutical point of view. I personally am not against

465
00:28:22,680 --> 00:28:27,080
Speaker 1: pharmaceutical versions of cannabinoids. What I find troubling is how

466
00:28:27,119 --> 00:28:31,320
Speaker 1: they are privileged by the regulatory apparatus to the detriment

467
00:28:31,880 --> 00:28:34,200
Speaker 1: of natural forms of the city. Well, by both the

468
00:28:34,240 --> 00:28:37,000
Speaker 1: regulatory apparatus and by the fact that it's easier for

469
00:28:37,080 --> 00:28:40,600
Speaker 1: researchers to focus on individual elements as opposed to looking

470
00:28:40,600 --> 00:28:44,840
Speaker 1: at entourage as the combinations. Right, It's it's on both sides,

471
00:28:45,120 --> 00:28:47,480
Speaker 1: so you know, I mean the earlier today, Martin, I

472
00:28:47,520 --> 00:28:49,560
Speaker 1: was kind of as I'm looking through your website and

473
00:28:49,600 --> 00:28:54,120
Speaker 1: I looked at clinical Trials dot gov online, which lists

474
00:28:54,120 --> 00:28:57,880
Speaker 1: studies underway or studies completed. I just popped in CBD

475
00:28:58,440 --> 00:29:02,800
Speaker 1: and it's at nine. When these six studies around the world,

476
00:29:02,800 --> 00:29:05,760
Speaker 1: I mean US, Europe, but also Israel, China, a whole

477
00:29:05,880 --> 00:29:08,600
Speaker 1: range of places going on. So there's obviously a huge

478
00:29:08,640 --> 00:29:11,880
Speaker 1: amount of research going. But meanwhile, I guess there are

479
00:29:11,880 --> 00:29:14,840
Speaker 1: no there are a number of other controlled double blind

480
00:29:14,880 --> 00:29:18,680
Speaker 1: studies and human beings which have shown interesting results. There's

481
00:29:18,720 --> 00:29:22,320
Speaker 1: a bigger number of studies with animals, other animals, UM,

482
00:29:22,400 --> 00:29:25,000
Speaker 1: that have shown promising results. And then a whole bunch

483
00:29:25,000 --> 00:29:27,240
Speaker 1: of stuff that's in vitro right, a test tube stuff

484
00:29:27,280 --> 00:29:29,720
Speaker 1: which is you know, looking promising, but where it's a

485
00:29:29,760 --> 00:29:32,120
Speaker 1: long ways to go before we have the kind of

486
00:29:32,120 --> 00:29:34,880
Speaker 1: controlled double blind studies that we get approved by the

487
00:29:35,000 --> 00:29:38,680
Speaker 1: f d A. So when we look at the various conditions,

488
00:29:38,960 --> 00:29:42,479
Speaker 1: right that are out there, the childhood epileptic conditions are

489
00:29:42,520 --> 00:29:44,200
Speaker 1: the ones that we know about and they have gotten

490
00:29:44,240 --> 00:29:46,640
Speaker 1: most of the attention, UM. But when we look at

491
00:29:46,680 --> 00:29:50,400
Speaker 1: the other areas where CBD has proven most or CBD

492
00:29:50,440 --> 00:29:54,680
Speaker 1: CBD in combo, what THHC has proven most promising, UM,

493
00:29:54,720 --> 00:29:57,479
Speaker 1: And where the human you know, control double blind studies, UM,

494
00:29:57,600 --> 00:30:01,200
Speaker 1: you know have produced positive results. What's stands out right now?

495
00:30:01,440 --> 00:30:04,040
Speaker 1: What stands out in general is we're at this precipice,

496
00:30:04,080 --> 00:30:07,040
Speaker 1: as you mentioned, is over nine hundred clinical trials now

497
00:30:07,160 --> 00:30:10,280
Speaker 1: in effect with CBD. Most of those trials involved just

498
00:30:10,360 --> 00:30:14,800
Speaker 1: CBD isolates. There's a massive amount of preclinical data, both

499
00:30:15,000 --> 00:30:17,800
Speaker 1: in vitro and vitro and in live animals and just

500
00:30:17,960 --> 00:30:21,480
Speaker 1: test tubes UM and that's very very compelling data that

501
00:30:21,600 --> 00:30:24,440
Speaker 1: just begs for clinical trials. So we're finally seeing that

502
00:30:24,800 --> 00:30:28,640
Speaker 1: starting to take place. In terms of results from clinical experiments.

503
00:30:28,720 --> 00:30:31,520
Speaker 1: The verdict is out, but I expect that it's quite

504
00:30:31,560 --> 00:30:35,280
Speaker 1: likely given what we're hearing anecdotally from people who are

505
00:30:35,400 --> 00:30:41,040
Speaker 1: using CBD products, whether isolates or full spectrum or broad

506
00:30:41,080 --> 00:30:44,440
Speaker 1: spectrum as it's called, there's enough anecdotal data that's quite

507
00:30:44,480 --> 00:30:49,760
Speaker 1: compelling and shouldn't be ignored UM that suggests that cb

508
00:30:49,920 --> 00:30:56,160
Speaker 1: D shows utility and effectiveness and significant benefits in a

509
00:30:56,240 --> 00:31:01,719
Speaker 1: number of areas for neurological diseases, most definitely UM for

510
00:31:01,960 --> 00:31:06,480
Speaker 1: certain mood disorders like anxiety I mentioned, also depression for pain.

511
00:31:06,840 --> 00:31:11,000
Speaker 1: Also it's it's clear that those are the big three pain, anxiety,

512
00:31:11,040 --> 00:31:14,720
Speaker 1: and depression. So Marty, you mentioned in neurological diseases, but

513
00:31:14,800 --> 00:31:20,520
Speaker 1: that means like Alzheimer's, dementia, Parkinson's MS, all of those

514
00:31:20,560 --> 00:31:23,440
Speaker 1: things that's showing some promise in either in vivo or

515
00:31:23,480 --> 00:31:25,800
Speaker 1: in vitro, and either you know, uh, you know, lab

516
00:31:25,840 --> 00:31:28,560
Speaker 1: tests or an animal So far, you know, all in

517
00:31:28,640 --> 00:31:31,680
Speaker 1: terms of pre clinical work, we all have shown very

518
00:31:31,800 --> 00:31:36,320
Speaker 1: very interesting possibilities. And again when you match that with

519
00:31:36,400 --> 00:31:40,000
Speaker 1: anecdotal reports from people who are actually using CBD in

520
00:31:40,000 --> 00:31:42,880
Speaker 1: one form or another, now it's compelling. But we've been

521
00:31:42,960 --> 00:31:48,080
Speaker 1: largely missing the clinical trials that would prove one way

522
00:31:48,160 --> 00:31:51,000
Speaker 1: or another if the anecdotal accounts are in fact correct.

523
00:31:51,800 --> 00:31:53,960
Speaker 1: But we're on the precipice where we're going to get

524
00:31:53,960 --> 00:31:57,640
Speaker 1: more information and that's exciting. But again, most of these

525
00:31:57,680 --> 00:32:01,520
Speaker 1: studies are with isolates c the islets, which generally are

526
00:32:01,560 --> 00:32:04,600
Speaker 1: not as effective when you're talking about a full spectrum

527
00:32:05,160 --> 00:32:08,520
Speaker 1: CBD product and the people playing around with dose, I

528
00:32:08,520 --> 00:32:10,120
Speaker 1: mean it often helps. It may just be there finding

529
00:32:10,160 --> 00:32:12,200
Speaker 1: no result if they're just using levels that are too

530
00:32:12,240 --> 00:32:16,640
Speaker 1: low on CBD. Yes, that's true. Uh, CBD is shown

531
00:32:16,680 --> 00:32:20,560
Speaker 1: to it's a pretty broad range in terms of dosage.

532
00:32:20,640 --> 00:32:23,880
Speaker 1: Sometimes very low doses do seem to be effective, not always.

533
00:32:23,920 --> 00:32:27,680
Speaker 1: Sometimes higher, much higher dosis are required. And the things

534
00:32:27,760 --> 00:32:30,560
Speaker 1: like disorders of the stomach of the gut I mean,

535
00:32:30,640 --> 00:32:34,280
Speaker 1: collitis or Crohn's disease. That's once again it's it's essentially

536
00:32:34,280 --> 00:32:37,560
Speaker 1: anecdotal evidence with a little bit of labor animal stuff,

537
00:32:37,920 --> 00:32:40,520
Speaker 1: with a lot of lab animal stuff actually, and a

538
00:32:40,520 --> 00:32:43,200
Speaker 1: lot of anecdotal evidence again, but that the missing piece

539
00:32:43,320 --> 00:32:46,760
Speaker 1: is the clinical side, so that that's uh, and obviously

540
00:32:46,760 --> 00:32:49,800
Speaker 1: it's a very very important piece, but without it doesn't

541
00:32:49,840 --> 00:32:53,760
Speaker 1: mean we should ignore the anecdotal accounts, which are voluminous

542
00:32:53,800 --> 00:32:59,760
Speaker 1: and impressive, right right. Diabetes and obesity the same. That's

543
00:32:59,760 --> 00:33:01,680
Speaker 1: a very very interesting area because you know, when you

544
00:33:01,720 --> 00:33:07,760
Speaker 1: talk about medical metabolic disorders like diabetes and obesity, you're

545
00:33:07,760 --> 00:33:12,320
Speaker 1: talking about a condition that that the World Health Organization

546
00:33:12,400 --> 00:33:16,200
Speaker 1: has identified as basically almost of a huge crisis, of

547
00:33:16,240 --> 00:33:20,680
Speaker 1: global crisis. And uh, diabetes, I mean, I think actually

548
00:33:20,680 --> 00:33:24,040
Speaker 1: a lot years of life lost, maybe greater now involving

549
00:33:24,040 --> 00:33:27,760
Speaker 1: diabetes and obesity than even from smoking cigarettes, or at

550
00:33:27,800 --> 00:33:31,720
Speaker 1: least it's neck and neck. I'm not surprised to hear that. Again,

551
00:33:32,640 --> 00:33:36,240
Speaker 1: it's the same situation anecdotally, what we hear from people

552
00:33:36,760 --> 00:33:42,920
Speaker 1: using CBD relatively small arounds forty to sixty milligrams a day.

553
00:33:43,040 --> 00:33:45,880
Speaker 1: When they compare the blood sugar levels before and after

554
00:33:46,160 --> 00:33:50,320
Speaker 1: a four weeks of using CBD, um it improves the

555
00:33:50,720 --> 00:33:54,280
Speaker 1: readings afterwards. So I think that's going to be an

556
00:33:54,280 --> 00:33:57,440
Speaker 1: area in the future that could be a major use

557
00:33:57,560 --> 00:34:01,440
Speaker 1: for CBD rich products. I also saw on your website

558
00:34:01,440 --> 00:34:05,840
Speaker 1: to mention of skin diseases like acne, dermatitis, and psoriasis. Yes, yeah,

559
00:34:06,040 --> 00:34:10,640
Speaker 1: again pre clinical that that's what we're seeing also for

560
00:34:10,680 --> 00:34:14,400
Speaker 1: some skin diseases UM in Italy. I believe there's CBD

561
00:34:14,560 --> 00:34:17,640
Speaker 1: rich creams that are available UM that are part of

562
00:34:17,640 --> 00:34:20,480
Speaker 1: a you know, within a frame of pharmaceutical framework. But

563
00:34:20,520 --> 00:34:22,600
Speaker 1: one of the thing I just need to fla understand.

564
00:34:22,640 --> 00:34:24,959
Speaker 1: So we talk about the benefits of CBD. We also

565
00:34:25,040 --> 00:34:27,359
Speaker 1: time time talked about the benefits of merril water at

566
00:34:27,440 --> 00:34:30,440
Speaker 1: large with all its constituent elements. We talk about the

567
00:34:30,480 --> 00:34:33,840
Speaker 1: benefits of th HC, But when we're talking about CBD,

568
00:34:33,880 --> 00:34:37,360
Speaker 1: how much of this medical stuff is about CBD entirely

569
00:34:37,400 --> 00:34:39,759
Speaker 1: isolated from th h D and other elements. How much

570
00:34:39,760 --> 00:34:42,920
Speaker 1: of it is about the combination of the two. If

571
00:34:42,920 --> 00:34:45,320
Speaker 1: we were to ask you which is more medically beneficial,

572
00:34:45,360 --> 00:34:47,120
Speaker 1: could you say, well, one is more than the other,

573
00:34:47,280 --> 00:34:49,840
Speaker 1: or that in fact was most beneficial most of the

574
00:34:49,880 --> 00:34:52,879
Speaker 1: time is the combo of the two. I would think

575
00:34:52,880 --> 00:34:55,680
Speaker 1: the latter is correct. It's the combination of CBD and

576
00:34:55,719 --> 00:34:59,120
Speaker 1: t it C that it will have most therapeutic benefits.

577
00:34:59,360 --> 00:35:04,080
Speaker 1: And the more th HC one can include in that product, um,

578
00:35:04,200 --> 00:35:06,760
Speaker 1: the more helpful it will be in the CBD rich product.

579
00:35:07,120 --> 00:35:09,080
Speaker 1: The problem being that the th HC is going to

580
00:35:09,120 --> 00:35:12,160
Speaker 1: be getting you high untless you develop a substantial tolerance

581
00:35:12,200 --> 00:35:15,680
Speaker 1: to the intoxicating effective t well. This is when it

582
00:35:15,680 --> 00:35:18,799
Speaker 1: comes down to again managing the psychoactivity of th HC.

583
00:35:19,480 --> 00:35:22,920
Speaker 1: A cb D can be very or the psychoactivity of cannabis.

584
00:35:23,360 --> 00:35:26,080
Speaker 1: That's where CBD comes in and can be very very helpful.

585
00:35:26,360 --> 00:35:29,319
Speaker 1: And you can get versions of cannabis now that are

586
00:35:29,360 --> 00:35:33,080
Speaker 1: not intoxicating, but that's not the point of CBD. The

587
00:35:33,160 --> 00:35:37,320
Speaker 1: point is not to ablate or eliminates uh the intoxicating effects.

588
00:35:37,400 --> 00:35:41,120
Speaker 1: It's to manage it because those of the intox because

589
00:35:41,160 --> 00:35:44,680
Speaker 1: th HC is has very powerful therapeutic attributes, and you

590
00:35:44,719 --> 00:35:47,120
Speaker 1: want as much as of th HC as possible and

591
00:35:47,239 --> 00:35:49,239
Speaker 1: your and your product if you're going to use it

592
00:35:49,280 --> 00:35:53,120
Speaker 1: medicinally issues that some people don't tolerate TC very well,

593
00:35:53,600 --> 00:35:56,920
Speaker 1: so they have now options. How does this relate to

594
00:35:56,960 --> 00:36:00,680
Speaker 1: what's going on with with with psychedellings, right, I mean,

595
00:36:00,680 --> 00:36:02,640
Speaker 1: I think where was I reading that? Is that the

596
00:36:02,719 --> 00:36:06,640
Speaker 1: CBD binds to the same serotonin receptor the five H

597
00:36:06,880 --> 00:36:10,800
Speaker 1: T two A is LSD, mescalin and uh soloson without

598
00:36:10,840 --> 00:36:13,719
Speaker 1: triggering a psychedelic trip. And you now have in the

599
00:36:13,760 --> 00:36:16,240
Speaker 1: psychedelic research field, you know, all sorts of for profit

600
00:36:16,320 --> 00:36:18,640
Speaker 1: enterprises and maybe some not for profit ones as well,

601
00:36:19,040 --> 00:36:21,160
Speaker 1: that are trying to figure out how to take the trip,

602
00:36:21,200 --> 00:36:23,560
Speaker 1: how to take the high out of the psychedelic and

603
00:36:23,680 --> 00:36:26,839
Speaker 1: isolate out, you know, the elements that can be therapeutic

604
00:36:26,920 --> 00:36:29,880
Speaker 1: without people going through the big you know, you know,

605
00:36:30,040 --> 00:36:34,000
Speaker 1: large dose psychedelic trip. Now is there something analogous without

606
00:36:34,000 --> 00:36:36,520
Speaker 1: respect to t HC going on. It's almost to repeat.

607
00:36:36,560 --> 00:36:39,600
Speaker 1: You know, CBD was hyped as you get the medical

608
00:36:39,640 --> 00:36:44,000
Speaker 1: benefits of cannabis without the high. Now you have so

609
00:36:44,040 --> 00:36:48,480
Speaker 1: called versions of psychedelic compounds that are being created um

610
00:36:48,600 --> 00:36:52,279
Speaker 1: that confer benefits without the trip. So it's a very

611
00:36:52,360 --> 00:36:56,359
Speaker 1: similar type of approach UM with CBD. It's even more

612
00:36:56,440 --> 00:37:01,440
Speaker 1: interesting because CBD it binds too many different type of receptors.

613
00:37:01,480 --> 00:37:05,719
Speaker 1: Not it doesn't just interact with cannabinoid receptors, and it

614
00:37:05,760 --> 00:37:07,520
Speaker 1: does so actually in a different way that th H

615
00:37:07,600 --> 00:37:12,600
Speaker 1: C does UM. Cbd actually has a very powerful affinity

616
00:37:12,640 --> 00:37:18,680
Speaker 1: for various serotonin receptors, including the serotonin to A receptor,

617
00:37:18,880 --> 00:37:22,080
Speaker 1: which is the so called psychedelic receptor. It's the receptor

618
00:37:22,640 --> 00:37:27,360
Speaker 1: when LSD binds to it, or mescaline or metabolites of psilocybin,

619
00:37:27,800 --> 00:37:30,239
Speaker 1: it produces the trip, a full blown trip if you

620
00:37:30,280 --> 00:37:33,440
Speaker 1: have it and you know enough enough of quantity that

621
00:37:33,480 --> 00:37:38,480
Speaker 1: you're consuming UM and and CBD binds that same receptor

622
00:37:39,080 --> 00:37:42,120
Speaker 1: as the psychedelic receptor as l s D binds two.

623
00:37:42,200 --> 00:37:45,719
Speaker 1: And the question is with why doesn't CBD cause a

624
00:37:45,719 --> 00:37:49,239
Speaker 1: trip UM. It's its a whole interesting area again to that,

625
00:37:49,400 --> 00:37:53,000
Speaker 1: there's actually a study out of China of crystallography study

626
00:37:53,160 --> 00:37:57,400
Speaker 1: within the last year where UM scientists from the Chinese

627
00:37:57,440 --> 00:38:03,040
Speaker 1: Academy of Science were playing around with different psychedelic compounds

628
00:38:03,080 --> 00:38:06,160
Speaker 1: to create versions of them that don't confer the trip,

629
00:38:06,800 --> 00:38:10,239
Speaker 1: and they created a crystallized version of this five H

630
00:38:10,320 --> 00:38:13,279
Speaker 1: two t A the serotonin to a receptor, and they

631
00:38:13,320 --> 00:38:16,920
Speaker 1: found that it was actually two points, two binding points

632
00:38:17,000 --> 00:38:22,160
Speaker 1: where UH a compound combined with that receptor, and depending

633
00:38:22,200 --> 00:38:26,160
Speaker 1: which point is being affected, UH, it might induce a

634
00:38:26,200 --> 00:38:29,760
Speaker 1: full bone trip, or it might not. But whatever happens

635
00:38:29,880 --> 00:38:33,640
Speaker 1: when you bind to a serotonin receptor, what whatever point

636
00:38:33,680 --> 00:38:37,520
Speaker 1: of that receptor you're bind to, it does induce um

637
00:38:37,760 --> 00:38:44,000
Speaker 1: neuroplasticity and neurogenesis, which CBD does. CBD is a psychoplastogen,

638
00:38:44,480 --> 00:38:47,239
Speaker 1: but not a hallucinogen. And that's just the type of

639
00:38:47,320 --> 00:38:51,600
Speaker 1: compound that the scientists are now who are working in

640
00:38:51,600 --> 00:38:54,960
Speaker 1: the so called psychedelic field, are trying to create. They're

641
00:38:54,960 --> 00:38:59,680
Speaker 1: trying to create so called psychedelic compounds um without the trip.

642
00:39:00,040 --> 00:39:04,359
Speaker 1: I call those pseudodelic compounds. That's a phrase that David Luke,

643
00:39:04,920 --> 00:39:08,560
Speaker 1: a professor in the UK and the University of Credit,

644
00:39:09,360 --> 00:39:14,120
Speaker 1: he had that phrase to describe that class of compounds

645
00:39:14,120 --> 00:39:17,719
Speaker 1: that are being developed by scientists from a psychedelic scaffold,

646
00:39:18,080 --> 00:39:23,440
Speaker 1: but without the hallucinogenic properties. Let's take a break here

647
00:39:23,600 --> 00:39:39,560
Speaker 1: and go to an ad. Let's go to the question

648
00:39:39,680 --> 00:39:42,040
Speaker 1: that is really my starting point, and I would imagine

649
00:39:42,040 --> 00:39:44,960
Speaker 1: as a starting point for most of our listeners. So

650
00:39:45,040 --> 00:39:47,560
Speaker 1: all this hype with the with the topicals and the

651
00:39:47,680 --> 00:39:50,120
Speaker 1: lozenges and this and that, and it seems that when

652
00:39:50,160 --> 00:39:53,560
Speaker 1: you look, I don't see any controlled double blind studies

653
00:39:53,640 --> 00:39:55,680
Speaker 1: or anything like that. I have no idea how much

654
00:39:55,719 --> 00:39:58,520
Speaker 1: is placebo on on this sort of thing. And I

655
00:39:58,560 --> 00:40:01,720
Speaker 1: also assumed that most of the folks manufacturing this stuff

656
00:40:01,719 --> 00:40:04,880
Speaker 1: don't really have an interest in having these control studies

657
00:40:04,880 --> 00:40:07,680
Speaker 1: and double blind studies happening because they're making money off

658
00:40:07,680 --> 00:40:10,040
Speaker 1: of the hype. And if they control double blind studies

659
00:40:10,080 --> 00:40:12,680
Speaker 1: turn out to be, you know, show just nothing better

660
00:40:12,680 --> 00:40:15,680
Speaker 1: than placebo. You know, there's stuff can go down the drain.

661
00:40:16,360 --> 00:40:20,160
Speaker 1: What is the story with that stuff? What do you know?

662
00:40:20,280 --> 00:40:24,600
Speaker 1: What can you tell us? You know, I think we

663
00:40:24,600 --> 00:40:29,239
Speaker 1: should take seriously reports from that are anecdotal in nature. Yes,

664
00:40:29,360 --> 00:40:32,360
Speaker 1: I do think there is a lot of placebo effect

665
00:40:32,360 --> 00:40:35,480
Speaker 1: going on here. People. If you spend money on a product,

666
00:40:35,480 --> 00:40:39,000
Speaker 1: you want to believe it's gonna work. The things did

667
00:40:39,040 --> 00:40:42,200
Speaker 1: get kind of crazy with CBD when there was this

668
00:40:42,520 --> 00:40:47,320
Speaker 1: huge explosion finally in twenty eighteen UM where it seemed

669
00:40:47,320 --> 00:40:53,760
Speaker 1: to become almost intergalactic. CBD became one of the most

670
00:40:53,800 --> 00:40:56,600
Speaker 1: popular health supplements on the planet all of a sudden,

671
00:40:56,640 --> 00:41:00,720
Speaker 1: you know, really just exploded. Where you did find CBD

672
00:41:00,800 --> 00:41:03,680
Speaker 1: in practically everything. We had a piece we rank we

673
00:41:03,800 --> 00:41:06,400
Speaker 1: call it on the Project CBD website called the CBD

674
00:41:06,520 --> 00:41:09,759
Speaker 1: Silly Season. Well, you're just ridiculous. Obviously, it was just

675
00:41:09,880 --> 00:41:12,799
Speaker 1: used for marketing purposes. If you're putting it in in

676
00:41:12,920 --> 00:41:17,000
Speaker 1: vodka or in clothing, you know, claiming it's going to

677
00:41:17,120 --> 00:41:20,680
Speaker 1: somehow be absorbed with this skin. Uh. And there's a

678
00:41:20,840 --> 00:41:23,640
Speaker 1: you know a lot of situations where it's just didn't

679
00:41:23,640 --> 00:41:30,000
Speaker 1: seem any apparent reason to include CBD. One example is coffee. Um.

680
00:41:30,040 --> 00:41:35,120
Speaker 1: You know, caffeine and CBD have opposite effects in terms

681
00:41:35,120 --> 00:41:37,680
Speaker 1: of what they do in the body, and it doesn't

682
00:41:37,719 --> 00:41:42,279
Speaker 1: really make sense to put them together, really. Uh. Caffeine

683
00:41:42,360 --> 00:41:48,600
Speaker 1: works by blocking a dnascine receptor. A CBD indirectly triggers

684
00:41:48,840 --> 00:41:53,600
Speaker 1: the dentasceine receptor dnasceine involved in sleep regulation and so forth.

685
00:41:53,640 --> 00:41:57,000
Speaker 1: So if you block it, you get more you feel stimulated,

686
00:41:57,000 --> 00:42:00,640
Speaker 1: you feel more energy. That's how coffee works. Well. CBD

687
00:42:01,480 --> 00:42:05,840
Speaker 1: is what you'd call it an end a dentiscene reuptake inhibitor.

688
00:42:06,320 --> 00:42:10,320
Speaker 1: It delays the breakdown of the DNA scene in the body,

689
00:42:10,400 --> 00:42:13,680
Speaker 1: so there's more of it to bind to their dnascine

690
00:42:13,719 --> 00:42:18,279
Speaker 1: receptors a way that's activating it. But but again, caffeine

691
00:42:18,280 --> 00:42:21,120
Speaker 1: blocks it, So why would you put CBD together with

692
00:42:21,239 --> 00:42:24,760
Speaker 1: caffeine coffee? It doesn't make any sense. Are there any

693
00:42:24,880 --> 00:42:29,000
Speaker 1: studies at all looking at topical application to deal with

694
00:42:29,080 --> 00:42:33,880
Speaker 1: everything from muscle ache to arthritis too, other types of

695
00:42:34,800 --> 00:42:38,440
Speaker 1: you know, problems. There are studies, again pre clinical mainly

696
00:42:38,560 --> 00:42:43,360
Speaker 1: maybe some now are in process clinical, very interesting research

697
00:42:43,440 --> 00:42:47,760
Speaker 1: out of hungry UH CBD for acne, which again showed

698
00:42:48,200 --> 00:42:52,960
Speaker 1: a great deal of promise. But um, you know, herbal

699
00:42:53,120 --> 00:42:57,520
Speaker 1: use of topical remedies UH has been, you know, something

700
00:42:57,520 --> 00:43:01,640
Speaker 1: that people have been doing for for centuries and typically

701
00:43:02,120 --> 00:43:05,160
Speaker 1: what you see in the products today where CBD is

702
00:43:05,280 --> 00:43:09,480
Speaker 1: part of it a topical application, there are many other

703
00:43:09,840 --> 00:43:12,520
Speaker 1: herbs in there that combine, so it's hard to know

704
00:43:12,760 --> 00:43:15,440
Speaker 1: really what's working and what's not. Is it's the CBD

705
00:43:15,840 --> 00:43:17,719
Speaker 1: or is it the other herbs. One thing we do

706
00:43:17,800 --> 00:43:20,720
Speaker 1: know in this regard is that CBD is absorbed easily,

707
00:43:21,440 --> 00:43:26,600
Speaker 1: more easily transdermally than t C. There's been studies, again

708
00:43:26,680 --> 00:43:30,480
Speaker 1: pre clinical studies that indicate that it's about ten times

709
00:43:30,480 --> 00:43:33,480
Speaker 1: easier to absorb CBD through the skin than compared to

710
00:43:33,520 --> 00:43:36,200
Speaker 1: t C. So it would make sense in terms of

711
00:43:37,239 --> 00:43:41,200
Speaker 1: cannabinoids in a topical that CBD would be a good candidate,

712
00:43:41,760 --> 00:43:46,279
Speaker 1: and there are cannabinoid receptors in this skin which CBD

713
00:43:46,320 --> 00:43:51,720
Speaker 1: doesn't bind too directly, but it does increase the amounts

714
00:43:51,760 --> 00:43:54,799
Speaker 1: of endogenous cannabinoids in the skin, which again could have

715
00:43:54,880 --> 00:43:58,600
Speaker 1: a therapeutic effect. The scientific basis for understanding how it

716
00:43:58,640 --> 00:44:02,000
Speaker 1: could work is there. The pre clinical evidence is there,

717
00:44:02,200 --> 00:44:05,400
Speaker 1: but anecdotal evidence is there. But again we're waiting for

718
00:44:05,440 --> 00:44:08,760
Speaker 1: the clinical studies. And in terms of taking it orally

719
00:44:08,840 --> 00:44:11,240
Speaker 1: where you're having it, you know, just going through your stomach.

720
00:44:11,320 --> 00:44:15,040
Speaker 1: I think even even as CBD infused chocolate bars. Oh yeah,

721
00:44:15,280 --> 00:44:17,960
Speaker 1: by all means. You know, it's shown that with CBD,

722
00:44:18,440 --> 00:44:22,120
Speaker 1: with other cannabinoids there are more effective if taken in

723
00:44:22,160 --> 00:44:25,640
Speaker 1: an edible form of taken orally, if they're combined with

724
00:44:25,719 --> 00:44:28,880
Speaker 1: some kind of a healthy fat like a coconut choice

725
00:44:29,080 --> 00:44:32,799
Speaker 1: or something like that, there's more CBD that's absorbed that way.

726
00:44:33,200 --> 00:44:36,840
Speaker 1: Oh so that's better than vaping it, for example, you know,

727
00:44:36,920 --> 00:44:40,120
Speaker 1: vaping it. You know, each of these administration routes that

728
00:44:40,239 --> 00:44:43,120
Speaker 1: have their own benefits, our own you know, their own

729
00:44:43,120 --> 00:44:45,920
Speaker 1: pluses and minuses. You might say, you know, vaping very

730
00:44:46,000 --> 00:44:49,879
Speaker 1: quick the effect and you don't have smokes and that's

731
00:44:49,880 --> 00:44:53,640
Speaker 1: an advantage as well. UM, but I caution people it's

732
00:44:53,680 --> 00:45:00,240
Speaker 1: in terms of using vape products CBD v products. Uh.

733
00:45:00,480 --> 00:45:05,759
Speaker 1: I would caution people to steer clear of anybody regulating

734
00:45:05,800 --> 00:45:09,480
Speaker 1: them at this point and not and it's unregulated. And

735
00:45:09,480 --> 00:45:11,480
Speaker 1: there's a lot of crap in these products. That's what's

736
00:45:11,480 --> 00:45:14,480
Speaker 1: found because there's always a carrier age. It's some kind

737
00:45:14,480 --> 00:45:17,440
Speaker 1: of oil or something in there that CBD, which is

738
00:45:17,480 --> 00:45:21,080
Speaker 1: generally in Iceland, that's put it added on a dollop

739
00:45:21,160 --> 00:45:25,200
Speaker 1: of CBD to some kind of carrier agent. Um. It's

740
00:45:25,239 --> 00:45:27,719
Speaker 1: pretty funky what can be in these products. So so

741
00:45:27,840 --> 00:45:29,719
Speaker 1: someone let me ask you this, you know. So the

742
00:45:29,800 --> 00:45:32,720
Speaker 1: one product that I've been you know, consuming for years,

743
00:45:32,840 --> 00:45:35,360
Speaker 1: and our listener should know, I don't get paid anything

744
00:45:35,400 --> 00:45:37,080
Speaker 1: for saying this. I've been used this product for a

745
00:45:37,080 --> 00:45:39,960
Speaker 1: million years is the Kiva chocolate bars that come out

746
00:45:39,960 --> 00:45:41,799
Speaker 1: of the Bay Area in California. I think they've got

747
00:45:41,800 --> 00:45:43,920
Speaker 1: this great chocolate. They have a reliable effect. I like

748
00:45:43,960 --> 00:45:45,320
Speaker 1: the way they do it. I actually went over and

749
00:45:45,400 --> 00:45:48,399
Speaker 1: visited the factory and at the owners some years ago. Um.

750
00:45:48,440 --> 00:45:53,480
Speaker 1: But sometimes I'll use a bar that's th HC and sometimes, Um,

751
00:45:53,560 --> 00:45:56,640
Speaker 1: it's split, you know, fifty fift THHC and cb D.

752
00:45:57,520 --> 00:46:00,920
Speaker 1: I don't know that I'm noticing that much difference. I mean,

753
00:46:01,040 --> 00:46:05,160
Speaker 1: should the difference be fairly perceptible to me? Or is

754
00:46:05,200 --> 00:46:08,560
Speaker 1: it only gonna be perceptible to some people? You know,

755
00:46:08,600 --> 00:46:11,680
Speaker 1: when you have a roughly equal amounts of CBD and

756
00:46:11,760 --> 00:46:15,919
Speaker 1: th HC, assuming that it's a sufficient quantity, it will

757
00:46:15,960 --> 00:46:20,479
Speaker 1: be intoxicating. It's not just well though they're definitely equal,

758
00:46:20,480 --> 00:46:23,040
Speaker 1: I mean they seem to me roughly equally intoxicating. That's

759
00:46:23,040 --> 00:46:25,279
Speaker 1: what I'm wondering, because when you combine the two, right,

760
00:46:25,360 --> 00:46:27,880
Speaker 1: the CBD is supposed to lessen the high a little

761
00:46:27,880 --> 00:46:32,359
Speaker 1: bit in addition to lessening any potential anxiety or inflammation.

762
00:46:32,440 --> 00:46:37,239
Speaker 1: That's my understanding, right, but I haven't noticed a big

763
00:46:37,360 --> 00:46:41,520
Speaker 1: just overall difference in terms of the high the feeling. Um,

764
00:46:41,680 --> 00:46:43,840
Speaker 1: is it this I'm not paying it close enough attention

765
00:46:44,719 --> 00:46:46,640
Speaker 1: or it's a good question. Might have something to do

766
00:46:46,680 --> 00:46:48,600
Speaker 1: with how the product made, And I agree, I think

767
00:46:48,640 --> 00:46:52,920
Speaker 1: Kiva products are very good. Uh. I found that when

768
00:46:53,400 --> 00:46:59,480
Speaker 1: I smoke a CBD rich variety of cannabis that is

769
00:46:59,560 --> 00:47:02,400
Speaker 1: roughly equal amounts of CBD and t it c It

770
00:47:02,440 --> 00:47:05,560
Speaker 1: does feel like that that the ceiling of the high

771
00:47:05,640 --> 00:47:09,640
Speaker 1: is lowered a bit, and you don't get that kind

772
00:47:09,640 --> 00:47:14,160
Speaker 1: of antsy feeling you sometimes get from very high high

773
00:47:14,160 --> 00:47:17,600
Speaker 1: th C of cannabis um As for edibles, you know,

774
00:47:17,800 --> 00:47:19,960
Speaker 1: we don't know what's going on here. If they just

775
00:47:20,000 --> 00:47:24,360
Speaker 1: simply added at cbd isolate to the chocolate, that's probably

776
00:47:24,400 --> 00:47:28,040
Speaker 1: what they did. Okay, and listen, there's another isolate kiva.

777
00:47:28,080 --> 00:47:30,239
Speaker 1: I think had another candy, but there's another drug that

778
00:47:30,320 --> 00:47:33,480
Speaker 1: has cb N in it. What's the CBN thing about?

779
00:47:33,600 --> 00:47:35,799
Speaker 1: Is that like in third place after th HC and

780
00:47:35,840 --> 00:47:39,880
Speaker 1: cbd is being a prominent and promising substance. Um Is

781
00:47:39,920 --> 00:47:42,560
Speaker 1: it the one that people use for sleep or other things?

782
00:47:43,080 --> 00:47:45,239
Speaker 1: This is an example of a kind of folklore in

783
00:47:45,239 --> 00:47:49,320
Speaker 1: the cannabis world where cbd N has which is stands

784
00:47:49,360 --> 00:47:54,560
Speaker 1: for cannabinol. It's really a breakdown product of t c UH.

785
00:47:54,760 --> 00:47:58,280
Speaker 1: You know, when the cannabis is old in your closet

786
00:47:58,360 --> 00:48:01,719
Speaker 1: or something that's exposed to light, um it breaks down

787
00:48:01,719 --> 00:48:05,160
Speaker 1: into CBN UM and which to me is an indication

788
00:48:05,200 --> 00:48:08,560
Speaker 1: of it's sort of an old product not as good really.

789
00:48:09,280 --> 00:48:14,840
Speaker 1: CBN has been associated with treatments for sleep. But I

790
00:48:14,880 --> 00:48:18,680
Speaker 1: think there's really no scientific basis for this at all, really,

791
00:48:18,719 --> 00:48:21,520
Speaker 1: and it's it's so I think it's a marketing ploy

792
00:48:21,640 --> 00:48:25,040
Speaker 1: because the folklore has it the oh CBN good for sleep,

793
00:48:25,360 --> 00:48:29,080
Speaker 1: even though there's no science showing this. UM it's become

794
00:48:29,120 --> 00:48:31,960
Speaker 1: a thing in the cannabis world, so a lot of

795
00:48:32,320 --> 00:48:35,359
Speaker 1: products you know, have this in it. And I think

796
00:48:35,360 --> 00:48:38,319
Speaker 1: it's basically just I don't think it has any There

797
00:48:38,320 --> 00:48:40,400
Speaker 1: shouldn't be any risk, and there's just a kind of

798
00:48:40,800 --> 00:48:43,080
Speaker 1: a bit of a scam or nothing. But it's not

799
00:48:43,080 --> 00:48:44,840
Speaker 1: gonna hurt yet. I don't think it would hurt. No,

800
00:48:45,880 --> 00:48:48,480
Speaker 1: it may, you know, a very very mild version of

801
00:48:48,520 --> 00:48:51,160
Speaker 1: thh C. You can think of it that way, but

802
00:48:51,280 --> 00:48:53,439
Speaker 1: in terms of getting to sleep, I don't. I don't

803
00:48:53,440 --> 00:48:55,839
Speaker 1: think it has really help. And what's the whole thing

804
00:48:55,840 --> 00:48:59,840
Speaker 1: about cb D and pets, Well, there's a whole area

805
00:49:00,000 --> 00:49:04,400
Speaker 1: are about certain veterinarians they are looking into using cannabis

806
00:49:04,520 --> 00:49:08,719
Speaker 1: as part of a veterinarian therapy. UM are very very

807
00:49:08,719 --> 00:49:13,120
Speaker 1: excited about CBD. UH. Th HC is a little bit

808
00:49:13,160 --> 00:49:17,560
Speaker 1: more problematic for dogs, for example, they react very strongly

809
00:49:17,640 --> 00:49:21,319
Speaker 1: to th HC. So the the emphasis on you know,

810
00:49:21,360 --> 00:49:26,520
Speaker 1: not getting your animal intoxicated. Um. So there's a natural

811
00:49:26,600 --> 00:49:29,640
Speaker 1: leaning towards CBD, and I think it's the promising area

812
00:49:29,760 --> 00:49:34,480
Speaker 1: for veterinary science, veterinary medicine. Now, Mart going back to

813
00:49:34,520 --> 00:49:37,319
Speaker 1: the industry here, so I see that on your web

814
00:49:37,360 --> 00:49:40,960
Speaker 1: Frie example, you don't promote any brand, but you have sponsors, right,

815
00:49:40,960 --> 00:49:44,120
Speaker 1: and you have I think one or two dozen companies.

816
00:49:44,200 --> 00:49:47,440
Speaker 1: Now do you vet these companies before they can become

817
00:49:47,480 --> 00:49:49,640
Speaker 1: a sponsor? I mean to make sure that they are

818
00:49:49,680 --> 00:49:51,920
Speaker 1: really doing the whole plant thing that they're you know,

819
00:49:52,000 --> 00:49:53,919
Speaker 1: I mean that basically their products are safe and good.

820
00:49:54,200 --> 00:49:57,359
Speaker 1: How do you handle that stuff? You know, it's tricky. Yes,

821
00:49:57,400 --> 00:49:59,560
Speaker 1: we do vet them, and we look for certain things,

822
00:50:00,040 --> 00:50:03,279
Speaker 1: um about the product themselves. Uh. Some of it just

823
00:50:03,400 --> 00:50:05,800
Speaker 1: makes sense. You know if if the products that include

824
00:50:05,800 --> 00:50:09,759
Speaker 1: a lot of sugar, corn syrup, artificial sweeteners, then we

825
00:50:09,840 --> 00:50:14,280
Speaker 1: steer clear of those brands. Um. If the brands are

826
00:50:14,360 --> 00:50:18,520
Speaker 1: interested in other forms of therapy with functional mushrooms or

827
00:50:18,960 --> 00:50:22,239
Speaker 1: things like that, it tends to indicate a brought a

828
00:50:22,239 --> 00:50:26,000
Speaker 1: perspective about healing that would be complementary for for what

829
00:50:26,040 --> 00:50:29,839
Speaker 1: we're looking for in terms of of a CBD brand. Uh.

830
00:50:29,920 --> 00:50:32,359
Speaker 1: If the CBD brands involved with some of these new

831
00:50:32,400 --> 00:50:37,480
Speaker 1: fangled Delta ten and Delta eight and these uh kind

832
00:50:37,520 --> 00:50:40,680
Speaker 1: of th C knockoffs, we steer clear of them because

833
00:50:40,760 --> 00:50:45,279
Speaker 1: these products are not regulated, and again, the the way

834
00:50:45,280 --> 00:50:50,040
Speaker 1: they're made, it really raises the likelihood that there's going

835
00:50:50,080 --> 00:50:53,480
Speaker 1: to be contaminants in these products. Um, if there are

836
00:50:53,560 --> 00:50:58,160
Speaker 1: helps CBD brand at selling vape products, that's a bit

837
00:50:58,200 --> 00:51:00,840
Speaker 1: of a red flag for us as well. Vape products

838
00:51:00,840 --> 00:51:05,120
Speaker 1: and CBD rich vape products sold in cannabis dispensaries. We're

839
00:51:05,160 --> 00:51:07,920
Speaker 1: okay with that because again, they go through a testing

840
00:51:07,960 --> 00:51:11,960
Speaker 1: regiment that the hand products don't go through. And generally speaking,

841
00:51:12,000 --> 00:51:13,880
Speaker 1: I mean when I talk to people who say, you know,

842
00:51:14,160 --> 00:51:16,520
Speaker 1: I mean marijuana problem with it makes me paranoid. It

843
00:51:16,520 --> 00:51:19,719
Speaker 1: makes me anxious. I sometimes find myself saying, well, why

844
00:51:19,719 --> 00:51:22,319
Speaker 1: don't you try doing something with a high CBD low

845
00:51:22,360 --> 00:51:25,360
Speaker 1: th HC content In addition to changing the set and

846
00:51:25,400 --> 00:51:27,160
Speaker 1: setting and paying attention to that may be the most

847
00:51:27,160 --> 00:51:30,200
Speaker 1: important variable I'm in doing with people you're comfortable with

848
00:51:30,280 --> 00:51:32,120
Speaker 1: and you know, and all this sort of thing. But

849
00:51:32,160 --> 00:51:34,600
Speaker 1: I mean, does that make sense that people have had

850
00:51:34,680 --> 00:51:38,520
Speaker 1: negative reactions in the past that maybe switching that ratio

851
00:51:38,840 --> 00:51:40,839
Speaker 1: might be the thing that enables them to learn how

852
00:51:40,880 --> 00:51:46,919
Speaker 1: to enjoy marijuana. Yeah, exactly. Um, that's that's the whole

853
00:51:46,960 --> 00:51:50,399
Speaker 1: point of different ratios of CBD and th HC. If

854
00:51:50,440 --> 00:51:53,120
Speaker 1: you have a lot of CBD and very little th HC,

855
00:51:53,239 --> 00:51:57,040
Speaker 1: it shouldn't be intoxicating. You know, studies have shown there's

856
00:51:57,080 --> 00:52:02,160
Speaker 1: a genetic basis for how people tolerate t C. There

857
00:52:02,440 --> 00:52:06,279
Speaker 1: is certain people who just cannot tolerate t C. We

858
00:52:06,360 --> 00:52:08,840
Speaker 1: can be talking about six ft five in sky who's

859
00:52:08,840 --> 00:52:11,600
Speaker 1: two fifty pounds, who will wilt. You don't have to

860
00:52:12,400 --> 00:52:15,520
Speaker 1: even near t C. You know. Uh, it doesn't have

861
00:52:15,600 --> 00:52:20,400
Speaker 1: to do with body type or anything like that. But genetically,

862
00:52:20,440 --> 00:52:25,480
Speaker 1: about twenty of Caucasians have what's called a polymorphism, or

863
00:52:25,840 --> 00:52:27,879
Speaker 1: you can call it a mutation, but it's a little

864
00:52:27,880 --> 00:52:31,480
Speaker 1: bit too strong a word, where the enzymes, the proteins

865
00:52:31,560 --> 00:52:36,439
Speaker 1: that would normally metabolize THHC and break it down. Um,

866
00:52:36,480 --> 00:52:40,279
Speaker 1: they're different in those people. So it results in his

867
00:52:40,360 --> 00:52:43,439
Speaker 1: ability to break down the thh C in a quote

868
00:52:43,520 --> 00:52:47,120
Speaker 1: unquote normal way, and for such a person, they'll have

869
00:52:47,239 --> 00:52:50,560
Speaker 1: bad experiences on th HC. So Martin just go back

870
00:52:50,600 --> 00:52:53,000
Speaker 1: and we're gonna wrap this up shortly. UM. So the

871
00:52:53,239 --> 00:52:55,680
Speaker 1: f d A put out something, I mean, I think

872
00:52:55,719 --> 00:52:58,200
Speaker 1: they're being asked to regulate cb D. I think there's

873
00:52:58,239 --> 00:52:59,719
Speaker 1: many people in city who would like it to be

874
00:52:59,760 --> 00:53:02,160
Speaker 1: regul related. I think consumers would like to have greater

875
00:53:02,200 --> 00:53:04,719
Speaker 1: assurance out there. But the f d A, I think,

876
00:53:04,760 --> 00:53:06,719
Speaker 1: to the extent it stepped into it, has said some

877
00:53:06,760 --> 00:53:09,960
Speaker 1: pretty negative things. And we talked before about how they're

878
00:53:10,000 --> 00:53:12,959
Speaker 1: not really cut out to be evaluating, you know, things

879
00:53:12,960 --> 00:53:16,040
Speaker 1: that involve an entourage effect that were's evaluating plans. But

880
00:53:16,440 --> 00:53:18,840
Speaker 1: what is going on with this f d A now

881
00:53:18,880 --> 00:53:21,000
Speaker 1: and what do we expect to see happening with them

882
00:53:21,000 --> 00:53:24,040
Speaker 1: in coming years? These a VCBD. Well, FDA is the

883
00:53:24,120 --> 00:53:27,360
Speaker 1: foot dragging administration really, and they're dragging their feet on

884
00:53:27,400 --> 00:53:31,880
Speaker 1: this issue. You know, it goes back to the Dietary

885
00:53:32,080 --> 00:53:35,799
Speaker 1: Supplement Health and that that Act that specifically that there

886
00:53:35,880 --> 00:53:40,120
Speaker 1: is a provision called the exclusionary Provision which states that

887
00:53:40,719 --> 00:53:46,040
Speaker 1: if a compound is approved as a pharmaceutical, it can't

888
00:53:46,040 --> 00:53:50,160
Speaker 1: be included in in dietary supplements. Well, that's really the

889
00:53:50,280 --> 00:53:53,320
Speaker 1: hold up with the FDA because they're sticking to that rule.

890
00:53:54,080 --> 00:53:55,919
Speaker 1: UM as a way of saying, well, we don't move

891
00:53:55,960 --> 00:54:00,120
Speaker 1: on this because because of the exclusionary principle. And and

892
00:54:01,200 --> 00:54:04,480
Speaker 1: I think that there's a counter push coming that even

893
00:54:04,680 --> 00:54:07,960
Speaker 1: within Congress, even coming from the Red state senators and

894
00:54:08,000 --> 00:54:12,960
Speaker 1: representatives who represents states that are hemp growing states, that

895
00:54:13,080 --> 00:54:16,000
Speaker 1: they want to see the FDA move past this. And

896
00:54:16,080 --> 00:54:20,320
Speaker 1: I think, you know, the CBD has scrambled the prohibitionist

897
00:54:20,400 --> 00:54:22,399
Speaker 1: narrative in a lot of different ways, and it's sort

898
00:54:22,440 --> 00:54:26,120
Speaker 1: of it's forcing this f D a I think, to

899
00:54:26,680 --> 00:54:29,720
Speaker 1: you know, to change the way it approaches this issue.

900
00:54:29,960 --> 00:54:33,440
Speaker 1: In this particular instance, there's just too much popular pressure

901
00:54:33,440 --> 00:54:36,200
Speaker 1: on this. There's just too much of a need um

902
00:54:36,280 --> 00:54:40,399
Speaker 1: to have a seriously regulated market here for CBD rather

903
00:54:40,440 --> 00:54:43,360
Speaker 1: than the wild West that we're seeing with him CBD.

904
00:54:44,000 --> 00:54:46,480
Speaker 1: And I would like to see the standards raised so

905
00:54:46,560 --> 00:54:50,160
Speaker 1: that the way that the cannabis industry, of the legal

906
00:54:50,200 --> 00:54:55,240
Speaker 1: cannabis industry is regulating um its products, including CBD rich products,

907
00:54:55,280 --> 00:54:59,680
Speaker 1: that everything else rise to that level of safety, which

908
00:55:00,080 --> 00:55:02,279
Speaker 1: that would be I think a positive development, But I

909
00:55:02,320 --> 00:55:05,480
Speaker 1: think I'm not sure if that's what the CBD industry

910
00:55:05,520 --> 00:55:08,040
Speaker 1: wants to hear. And do you think that as we

911
00:55:08,080 --> 00:55:11,920
Speaker 1: move towards synthetics, Will they become better at doing not

912
00:55:12,080 --> 00:55:14,080
Speaker 1: just the cb D and TC, but all the other

913
00:55:14,160 --> 00:55:16,600
Speaker 1: minor elements of the cannabis plant. Will that will they'll

914
00:55:16,600 --> 00:55:21,520
Speaker 1: be producing synthetically sort of synthetic entourage drugs from the front.

915
00:55:22,280 --> 00:55:25,560
Speaker 1: I mean, there's getting the entourage effects through synthetics. I

916
00:55:25,560 --> 00:55:28,359
Speaker 1: don't know about entourage through synthetics, and I don't think

917
00:55:28,400 --> 00:55:32,759
Speaker 1: you can really create recreate a real entourage effect or

918
00:55:32,760 --> 00:55:35,360
Speaker 1: a full entourage effect just by you know, adding a

919
00:55:35,400 --> 00:55:38,359
Speaker 1: bunch of putting a bunch of synthetics together. But I

920
00:55:38,400 --> 00:55:44,319
Speaker 1: think the potential positive side of this move towards synthetics

921
00:55:44,840 --> 00:55:50,239
Speaker 1: is that minor cannabinoids with with great therapeutic potential which

922
00:55:50,320 --> 00:55:55,120
Speaker 1: would not be possible to to access from the plant

923
00:55:55,160 --> 00:55:59,759
Speaker 1: itself in any significant quantity um, could be made in

924
00:56:00,000 --> 00:56:03,200
Speaker 1: efficient quantities to do clinical trials with understanding that that's

925
00:56:03,200 --> 00:56:06,319
Speaker 1: that's the pharmaceutical approach, a reductive approach, that's focusing on

926
00:56:06,400 --> 00:56:10,160
Speaker 1: single molecules. I'm not against single molecules. When I'm against

927
00:56:10,280 --> 00:56:15,800
Speaker 1: is privileging pharmaceutical signal molecules over a full plant. And

928
00:56:16,280 --> 00:56:19,600
Speaker 1: then uh, you know, which is what you're saying, will

929
00:56:19,640 --> 00:56:23,840
Speaker 1: inevitably happen as we move to synthetics. Um. Yes, but

930
00:56:24,239 --> 00:56:26,640
Speaker 1: it's a matter of you know, we have to stand

931
00:56:26,680 --> 00:56:32,320
Speaker 1: up for artisanal, full spectrum cannabis products. That's it should

932
00:56:32,360 --> 00:56:34,400
Speaker 1: be part of the mix. It's just that the regulatory

933
00:56:34,440 --> 00:56:38,840
Speaker 1: apparatus doesn't favor that type of thing. And that's the problem.

934
00:56:38,880 --> 00:56:43,359
Speaker 1: It's not the intrinsically um single molecule pharmaceuticals are quote

935
00:56:43,400 --> 00:56:46,640
Speaker 1: unquote bad um. They can actually work and help people.

936
00:56:46,840 --> 00:56:50,160
Speaker 1: Epidialects works well. So it sounds like though, as mariana

937
00:56:50,200 --> 00:56:52,880
Speaker 1: is increasingly legalized, though, it's really going to ease the

938
00:56:52,920 --> 00:56:56,439
Speaker 1: way for the therapeutic values of CBD. And since you're

939
00:56:56,440 --> 00:56:59,640
Speaker 1: basically saying that anytime you're taking CBD, you're better off

940
00:56:59,719 --> 00:57:02,560
Speaker 1: take in it where it's got some sidly small amount

941
00:57:02,560 --> 00:57:06,200
Speaker 1: of th HC or even other um elements of the

942
00:57:06,239 --> 00:57:08,359
Speaker 1: cannabis plant in it, I mean that's going to be

943
00:57:08,440 --> 00:57:10,960
Speaker 1: all for the good in terms of making CBD as

944
00:57:11,040 --> 00:57:14,160
Speaker 1: useful as it can be UM for people living here

945
00:57:14,239 --> 00:57:18,240
Speaker 1: or wherever. That's what we would hope. Okay, Well, listen, Martin,

946
00:57:18,680 --> 00:57:22,840
Speaker 1: thank you very much for sharing your insights and wisdom

947
00:57:22,840 --> 00:57:27,240
Speaker 1: about CBD with me. And my Psychoactive audience. Thank you.

948
00:57:35,560 --> 00:57:39,400
Speaker 1: If you're enjoying Psychoactive, please tell your friends about it,

949
00:57:39,600 --> 00:57:41,840
Speaker 1: or you can write us a review at Apple Podcasts

950
00:57:41,920 --> 00:57:44,680
Speaker 1: or wherever you get your podcasts. We love to hear

951
00:57:44,720 --> 00:57:47,760
Speaker 1: from our listeners. If you'd like to share your own stories,

952
00:57:47,840 --> 00:57:50,959
Speaker 1: comments and ideas, then leave us a message at one

953
00:57:51,200 --> 00:57:56,680
Speaker 1: eight three three seven seven nine sixty that's eight three

954
00:57:56,760 --> 00:58:01,280
Speaker 1: three psycho zero, or you can email us at Psychoactive

955
00:58:01,320 --> 00:58:04,480
Speaker 1: at protozoa dot com or find me on Twitter at

956
00:58:04,480 --> 00:58:08,080
Speaker 1: Ethan Natalman. You can also find contact information in our

957
00:58:08,120 --> 00:58:11,880
Speaker 1: show notes. Psychoactive is a production of I Heart Radio

958
00:58:12,120 --> 00:58:16,320
Speaker 1: and Protozoa Pictures. It's hosted by me Ethan Nadelman. It's

959
00:58:16,360 --> 00:58:20,240
Speaker 1: produced by Noham Osband and Josh Stain. The executive producers

960
00:58:20,400 --> 00:58:24,480
Speaker 1: are Dylan Golden, Ari Handel, Elizabeth Geesus and Darren Aronovsky

961
00:58:24,560 --> 00:58:27,680
Speaker 1: from Protozoa Pictures, Alex Williams and Matt Frederick from My

962
00:58:27,760 --> 00:58:31,680
Speaker 1: Heart Radio and me Ethan Nadelman. Our music is by

963
00:58:31,720 --> 00:58:35,360
Speaker 1: Ari Blucien and a special thanks to ab Ario s

964
00:58:35,440 --> 00:58:49,560
Speaker 1: f Bianca Grimshaw and Robert Deep. Next week's episode will

965
00:58:49,600 --> 00:58:52,880
Speaker 1: be all about I Began I'll be talking with Hattie Wells,

966
00:58:52,960 --> 00:58:55,360
Speaker 1: one of the leading experts in the uses of this

967
00:58:55,520 --> 00:59:00,880
Speaker 1: remarkable psychedelic substance. The piece that I think might make

968
00:59:01,200 --> 00:59:05,400
Speaker 1: ibergain seem somewhat daunting. You are sort of immobilized, so

969
00:59:05,480 --> 00:59:07,560
Speaker 1: you'll be lying down on a bed for at least

970
00:59:08,360 --> 00:59:12,840
Speaker 1: sort of sixteen eighteen hours without moving, and you can't move,

971
00:59:13,640 --> 00:59:17,560
Speaker 1: and that that is definitely an intense experience. Subscribe to

972
00:59:17,600 --> 00:59:19,320
Speaker 1: Pycoactive now see it all, miss it.