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Speaker 1: Pushkin. I think of myself as a nice person, but

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Speaker 1: there is someone who I'm really mean to. This individual

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Speaker 1: that I constantly torment isn't some stranger or enemy. She's

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Speaker 1: someone I should treat with kindness and care, but that

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Speaker 1: hasn't stopped me from completely ignoring her needs or sticking

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Speaker 1: her with way too much work and obligation and emotional drama.

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Speaker 1: Who is this person that I'm so mean to, Well,

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Speaker 1: she's me. She's me only a few years or months

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Speaker 1: or days from now, and research shows I'm not the

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Speaker 1: only mean girl out there. Decades of psychological studies have

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Speaker 1: found that many of us treat our future cells or

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Speaker 1: in crap. We may not feel like eating better, hitting

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Speaker 1: the gym, or making tough decisions right now, but we

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Speaker 1: totally expect our future selves to pick up the slack

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Speaker 1: at some later date to be decided. We assume our

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Speaker 1: future cells will be happy to do all the stuff

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Speaker 1: we dread, But of course we're wrong. Our future selves

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Speaker 1: don't want to deal with chores or hard workouts or

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Speaker 1: boring social obligations any more than we do. Being mean

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Speaker 1: to my future self is hands down the happiness challenge

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Speaker 1: that messes me up.

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Speaker 2: The most.

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Speaker 1: I'm constantly signing future Lauri up for an insane amount

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Speaker 1: of travel, too much work, and way too little rest.

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Speaker 1: I'm constantly saying that she'll exercise and eat right tomorrow

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Speaker 1: or next Monday, but she never does, and then she

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Speaker 1: winds up feeling sad and guilty and all stressed out.

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Speaker 1: The Lariy of today has got to start being nicer

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Speaker 1: to the Lariu tomorrow. But it's going to be a

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Speaker 1: tough journey, one that may even involved sometime travels.

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Speaker 3: I don't want to tequ work.

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Speaker 1: Our minds are constantly telling us what to do to

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Speaker 1: be happy. But what if our minds are wrong? What

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Speaker 1: if our minds are lying to us, leading us away

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Speaker 1: from what will really make us happy. The good news

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Speaker 1: is that understanding the science of the mind can point

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Speaker 1: us all back in the right direction. You're listening to

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Speaker 1: the Happiness Lab, doctor Laurie Santos. Hey, laur Hey, Hell,

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Speaker 1: how's it going, Keed?

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Speaker 2: How are you good?

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Speaker 1: Thanks so much for taking the time to do this.

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Speaker 1: If there's one person who can save Lauri of tomorrow

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Speaker 1: from Laria of today, it's this guy.

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Speaker 2: I'm Hal Hirschfield.

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Speaker 4: I'm a professor of marketing and behavioral decision Making at UCLA.

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Speaker 4: And I'm the author of Your Future Self, How to

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Speaker 4: Make Tomorrow Better Today.

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Speaker 1: How's book chronicle study after study in which we think

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Speaker 1: of our future selves like a complete and utter stranger.

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Speaker 1: Take for example, one clever experiment by the psychologist Emily Pronin.

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Speaker 1: She told a group of college students to imagine hosting

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Speaker 1: a birthday celebration tomorrow and to describe what would happen next.

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Speaker 4: And most people write about the same three things. You know,

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Speaker 4: there's a party, there's some alcohol, and there's a cake.

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Speaker 1: Another group was asked to imagine the same party, but

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Speaker 1: in the distant future, decades from now.

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Speaker 4: They write about the same stuff. There's alcohol there, you know,

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Speaker 4: a party, there's friends. But they're more likely to mention

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Speaker 4: their future self as if they're another person in the scene.

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Speaker 1: People said things like I see myself sitting there at

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Speaker 1: a table with a glass of wine, or oh, look there,

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Speaker 1: I am talking to a friend from work. They describe

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Speaker 1: the event not through their own eyes, but as an

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Speaker 1: outside observer might see it.

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Speaker 4: It's subtle, but that's the third person perspective. You're another

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Speaker 4: person in the scene, and I find this fascinating because

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Speaker 4: it suggests that even though we have this sort of

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Speaker 4: surface level assumption that our future selves and we are

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Speaker 4: this sort of single entity through time.

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Speaker 2: We don't always treat ourselves that way.

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Speaker 1: So if we don't feel fully connected to the person

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Speaker 1: will be in a month or year or decade from now,

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Speaker 1: it's not that surprising we don't take into account their

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Speaker 1: thoughts and feelings and preferences when we're planning what we

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Speaker 1: want them to do.

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Speaker 4: Our future self often is this totally silent partner. If

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Speaker 4: not even that they want to speak and can't, they

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Speaker 4: just they literally don't have a voice at the table,

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Speaker 4: which means all of the decisions for our future selves,

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Speaker 4: all of the things that impact them in positive and

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Speaker 4: negative ways, are made by our current selves, who may

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Speaker 4: share some of the same interests as our future selves,

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Speaker 4: but also may have some competing ones.

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Speaker 1: It's not that we're trying to screw over these silent partners.

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Speaker 1: We're just really bad at predicting what we ourselves will

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Speaker 1: want in the coming months and years.

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Speaker 4: We think we're simulating our future self feelings, but in

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Speaker 4: doing so, we're kind of relying a little too heavily

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Speaker 4: on what we're feeling right now and not appreciating that

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Speaker 4: our preferences, our likes, our dislikes may change over time.

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Speaker 4: We think we're thinking ahead, but we're just not doing

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Speaker 4: it all that well.

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Speaker 1: And as I know all too well from my own life,

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Speaker 1: there are many cases in which my future self gets

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Speaker 1: a really raw deal.

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Speaker 4: The sort of classic example of that this happens with

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Speaker 4: financial decisions, right where we know we say we want

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Speaker 4: to save more, and yet we find ourselves spending. But

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Speaker 4: then there's ones that go beyond that, right, see this

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Speaker 4: in the health space, we say we want to get

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Speaker 4: up an exercise, and it's so easy to just sleep

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Speaker 4: in a little bit more and say you'll do it

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Speaker 4: later in the day, and the day goes by, and

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Speaker 4: all of a sudden it's nighttime and you.

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Speaker 2: Have it worked out.

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Speaker 1: These things may seem trivial, but since we all do them,

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Speaker 1: they can create big societal problems, ones that affect a

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Speaker 1: lot of people's happiness. Public health would be better if

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Speaker 1: we didn't delay exercising and eating right. Our economy would

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Speaker 1: be better if we all made sounder financial decisions today

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Speaker 1: rather than putting them off. And the environment would certainly

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Speaker 1: be better if we changed our consumption now. Rather than

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Speaker 1: kicking tough choices down the line, we assume our future

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Speaker 1: selves will just take care of business, and the result

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Speaker 1: is major procrastination.

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Speaker 4: Oftentimes we don't do something because we get anxious about it,

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Speaker 4: or because it just feels like it's not going to

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Speaker 4: be that pleasant, and so we push it off till later.

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Speaker 1: And it's not just about avoiding tasks in the present.

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Speaker 1: I happily sign my future self up for lots of commitments,

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Speaker 1: which means that Laurie of tomorrow winds up chronically overcommitted.

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Speaker 1: It's a phenomena that my Yale colleague Gal Zuberman christened

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Speaker 1: the yes Damn Effect.

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Speaker 4: It's the best named effect in all of psychology, in

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Speaker 4: my opinion, because it's so descriptive. It's that moment that

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Speaker 4: you say yes to the thing, and then it arises

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Speaker 4: and you say, damn it.

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Speaker 2: I wish I hadn't signed myself up for that.

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Speaker 1: I've all prey to the yes Damn effect all the time.

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Speaker 1: It's yet another case where I feel like I'm trying

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Speaker 1: to predict what I'd like to be doing in the future,

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Speaker 1: but I end up screwing that up.

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Speaker 4: It may be a little bit hard to say no,

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Speaker 4: or you're worried that you might hurt someone's feelings, or

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Speaker 4: maybe genuinely speaking, the opportunity seems exciting and interesting to you,

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Speaker 4: and then you get to the point where you have

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Speaker 4: to do the thing that you are now obligated to

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Speaker 4: do and it doesn't seem as attractive or appealing. You

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Speaker 4: could probably come up with other ways to spend that time.

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Speaker 1: I'd be way happier if I could only hear what

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Speaker 1: Laurie of the future really wants to do. Letting her

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Speaker 1: have a say in her own schedule would solve so

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Speaker 1: many problems.

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Speaker 4: Like we said, your future self is a sort of

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Speaker 4: silent partner at the negotiation table, so you sort of

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Speaker 4: have to ask are there ways to communicate with them?

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Speaker 4: One thing that I and others have explored is a

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Speaker 4: letter writing process.

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Speaker 1: We often pen letters to friends or people we want

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Speaker 1: to connect with. Better, could send in a short note

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Speaker 1: about an upcoming decision to your future self do the

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Speaker 1: same thing.

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Speaker 4: What I love about this idea is that it really

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Speaker 4: forces you to take the perspective of your future self.

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Speaker 4: Any good negotiation coach would tell you to do the

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Speaker 4: same thing about your negotiation partner, get into their heads,

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Speaker 4: take their perspective.

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Speaker 1: Hell brought hundreds of college students into the lab and

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Speaker 1: told them to write a letter to their future selves,

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Speaker 1: explaining which topics were currently important to them and how

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Speaker 1: they saw life right now. Half the participants wrote to

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Speaker 1: themselves in twenty years time, whereas the other half wrote

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Speaker 1: to themselves just three months from now. How wasn't so

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Speaker 1: much interested in the content of these letters. He more

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Speaker 1: wanted to see how writing the letter changed students' behaviors.

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Speaker 1: He studied the amount of time students spent exercising in

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Speaker 1: the weeks following experiment, and the results were impressive. People

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Speaker 1: who wrote to themselves in twenty years time exercised nearly

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Speaker 1: one and a half times longer than the other participants.

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Speaker 1: Stopping to really engage with our future selves, even through

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Speaker 1: something as simple as writing them a letter, encourages us

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Speaker 1: to treat them much better. But how wondered, could an

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Speaker 1: even more vivid interaction with our future selves have an

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Speaker 1: even more profound effect. Maybe, But short of building a

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Speaker 1: time machine, he wasn't really sure how to do that.

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Speaker 1: That is until a rap legend came back to life

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Speaker 1: before his eyes. The happiness lab will be right back.

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Speaker 1: It's the twenty twelve Coachella Festival. A capacity crowd is

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Speaker 1: gearing up for the headline act Doctor Dre and Snoop Dogg,

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Speaker 1: plus an extra extra special surprise guest standing fair chested

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Speaker 1: on stage, arms outstretched, might in hand. Tupac Shakur, the

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Speaker 1: Thinged Rapper, was murdered fifteen years before the festival, but

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Speaker 1: when the lights came on, there he was in all

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Speaker 1: his thug life glory thanks to the magic of holograms.

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Speaker 1: Tupac's postumous appearance stunned music fans, but for psychologist hal Hirshfield,

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Speaker 1: it was a Eureka moment, and.

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Speaker 4: I thought, oh my gosh, wouldn't it be amazing to

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Speaker 4: have people interact with their future selves via a hologram.

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Speaker 4: You know, I'm standing there and I see this old

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Speaker 4: version of me, and I talked to them, et cetera.

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Speaker 1: But where was Hell going to find a lifelike hologram

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Speaker 1: to rival Coachella Tupac. Fortunately, his lab mate had an idea.

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Speaker 4: You know, we've got this big virtual reality lab, like

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Speaker 4: two buildings away.

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Speaker 2: I wonder if you could do something there.

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Speaker 1: Hell set up a meeting with Jeremy Bailenson, the director

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Speaker 1: of that lab and an expert on immersive virtual experiences.

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Speaker 1: Jeremy had recently developed a VR technology that allowed people

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Speaker 1: to walk through realistic scenes and to meet a whole

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Speaker 1: host of lifelike avatars.

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Speaker 2: Look, it's not a holograthom, but it's pretty close.

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Speaker 1: Teaming up with Jeremy, how recruited a group of college

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Speaker 1: age subjects, took their photos, handed them a state of

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Speaker 1: the art VR headset, and told them to get ready

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Speaker 1: to visit the future.

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Speaker 4: People would walk around this virtual room and they would

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Speaker 4: see sort of like blank walls in front of them,

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Speaker 4: and then there'd be a mirror there and staring back

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Speaker 4: at them, face to face with their future self.

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Speaker 1: Each subject got to interact with a realistic VR version

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Speaker 1: of their older face in the mirror, and what happened

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Speaker 1: to their behavior after this fateful meeting? They made more

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Speaker 1: future oriented choices. When asked to allocate one thousand dollars

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Speaker 1: between a future investment fund or a sooner event. How

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Speaker 1: subjects invested nearly twice as much money as people in

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Speaker 1: the control condition. In later work, he found that bank

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Speaker 1: customers who saw images of their future selves wound up

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Speaker 1: saving more for retirement.

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Speaker 4: Coming face to face with that future self, meeting them,

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Speaker 4: thinking about them, seeing them can really help put someone

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Speaker 4: in the minds of you know, who will I be,

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Speaker 4: and what will I want and what will I feel

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Speaker 4: down the line.

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Speaker 1: I definitely wanted to experience the benefits of meeting future

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Speaker 1: Lauri face to face. Maybe she could help me work

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Speaker 1: out more consistently or stop me from falling prey to

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Speaker 1: the yes Damn effect. I asked tal if you let

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Speaker 1: me play in his high tech VR setup. Turns out

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Speaker 1: a lot has changed since twenty twelve.

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Speaker 4: Now, you know, in about a second, I can take

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Speaker 4: a picture of myself, and there's apps that will do

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Speaker 4: this and show me like a very realistic future self,

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Speaker 4: much more so than the ones we were using.

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Speaker 1: Then it's pretty wild that the time machine I need

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Speaker 1: to meet future Lauri lives right in my pocket.

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Speaker 4: I think Snapchat actually does the best job at this.

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Speaker 4: If you do it, it's just like, it's so good.

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Speaker 1: Okay, I'm going on Snapchat and there are a lot

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Speaker 1: of filters on Snapchat. Being a middle aged professor, I

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Speaker 1: hadn't actually tried out filters like these before, except for

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Speaker 1: the time I accidentally gave myself benty years on zoom

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Speaker 1: during a faculty meeting. Hold to take a video. Okay,

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Speaker 1: that did not work. I'm a bit of a nube

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Speaker 1: when it comes to technology. Snapchat time Machine, tap the

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Speaker 1: smiley face icon to access filters, move the slider to

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Speaker 1: the left to make yourself look younger, or to the

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Speaker 1: right to make you look older. Several instructional videos later,

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Speaker 1: I was able to sort it out. I aimed the

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Speaker 1: camera in my face, slid the Snapchat time machine slider,

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Speaker 1: and there she was, Laurie, thirty years from now. Okay,

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Speaker 1: I'm seeing myself looking really old, and that's weird.

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Speaker 2: Wow.

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Speaker 1: Seeing my future self was a much more emotional experience

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Speaker 1: than I expected. I realized my skin would look so bad.

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Speaker 1: If you haven't played with aging filters like these, try

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Speaker 1: one out. It's really disturbing. I look like my dad,

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Speaker 1: but really disturbing. Combined with a new found panic about

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Speaker 1: my current moisturizing regimen, wasn't exactly the profound effect I

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Speaker 1: was hoping for. Hasn't technology found a way to simulate

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Speaker 1: the wisdom sixty year old Laurie will have along with

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Speaker 1: her wrinkles.

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Speaker 4: I'll tell you in new work really sort of preliminary work.

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Speaker 4: I'm working with a team of researchers at MIT's Media Lab.

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Speaker 4: They've created basically a future you chatbot. It's using chat

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Speaker 4: GPT with some flourishes that they've added, and essentially you

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Speaker 4: end up in a written conversation back and forth with

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Speaker 4: your future self.

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Speaker 1: Ooh, a chat GBT future Laurie. I was intrigued.

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Speaker 2: I tried it out and I couldn't stop.

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Speaker 4: It was something like, I like, I lost twenty five

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Speaker 4: minutes asking.

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Speaker 2: My future self all this. But I know it's just

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Speaker 2: an algorithm, but it felt so real.

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Speaker 4: It actually felt like I was having this conversation and

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Speaker 4: it really made me take pause.

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Speaker 1: Hey, Lauria, nice to media.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, thanks so much for.

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Speaker 1: Laurie. I'm visiting Pat Pata renew to Porn and Peggy

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Speaker 1: in at the MIT Media Alab. Pat and Peggy are

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Speaker 1: the brains behind the chat GBT tool Future You. But

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Speaker 1: just going to the Media Lab was already a bit

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Speaker 1: of a trippy time machine experience. You see, I lived

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Speaker 1: near the lab back in the nineties, and back then

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Speaker 1: lots of my grad school friends worked there. There's a

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Speaker 1: wall celebrating the lab's history with lots of old photos,

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Speaker 1: including some of people I remembered from grad school. I

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Speaker 1: know these guys, they are butting interesting. It was fun

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Speaker 1: to head down memory lane, but what I really wanted

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Speaker 1: to do was to time travel in the other direction.

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Speaker 1: So Pat and Peggy took me upstairs to meet their invention.

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Speaker 1: On the way, I asked the pair how they came

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Speaker 1: up with the idea for future you. Peggy's interest in

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Speaker 1: connecting with her future self began as a college student.

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Speaker 5: Throughout my life, I've just been a very active journaler.

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Speaker 5: I just wrote these really long, like three hour journal sessions,

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Speaker 5: just really reflecting my thoughts on things and how I

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Speaker 5: was sort of developing. When I was reading back on

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Speaker 5: journal entries from when I was in seventh grade, there

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Speaker 5: were many points at which I felt like I wasn't

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Speaker 5: really that person anymore at all.

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Speaker 1: The original chat GBT was first released around this time.

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Speaker 1: Peggy decided the new AI tool might be a good

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Speaker 1: way to connect with her past self.

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Speaker 5: I started plugging my journal entries into chat GBT to

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Speaker 5: try to figure out what future journal entries from myself

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Speaker 5: might look like.

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Speaker 3: I can show you to protoctime.

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Speaker 1: I definitely want to try The first step in using

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Speaker 1: future you involves answering a bunch of questions.

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Speaker 2: What's your name?

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Speaker 3: And that's my name?

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Speaker 1: Where are you from?

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Speaker 2: Situ?

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Speaker 1: Since? How old are you?

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Speaker 3: I am forty eight.

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Speaker 1: I told the algorithm about my hopes for the future,

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Speaker 1: where I wanted to live and what I wanted my

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Speaker 1: life to be like in my sixties.

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Speaker 3: What is my ideal financial situation?

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Speaker 1: I am not worried about money. After all the questions,

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Speaker 1: we uploaded my photo.

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Speaker 3: Do you have your picture? Him?

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Speaker 2: Sure?

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Speaker 1: Suddenly I was looking at sixty year old Laurie. This

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Speaker 1: version was better than the Snapchat one, but it was

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Speaker 1: still a little jarring. Oh wow, wow, how my iphrosk

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Speaker 1: gets so huge? All have to figure Wow, that's really weird.

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Speaker 1: Pat then clicked on a new screen and big, eyebrowed

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Speaker 1: old Laurie popped up in a chat window. She started

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Speaker 1: typing to me. When I was your age, my dream

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Speaker 1: was to continue sharing the science of happiness with others

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Speaker 1: and make a positive impact on people's lives. But I'm

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Speaker 1: happy to say it turned out you good better than

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Speaker 1: I expect. Chatting with future Lauri felt like the most

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Speaker 1: natural thing in the world. Pat says that This is

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Speaker 1: the beauty of future you. It combines my answers with

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Speaker 1: all the data inside chat GPT to create a conversation

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Speaker 1: that feels incredibly lifelike. Future Laurie then launched into some

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Speaker 1: suggestions for currently cherish those you love and make time

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Speaker 1: for them, because in the end, they are what truly matter.

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Speaker 1: Don't forget to always spread happiness wherever you go. I

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Speaker 1: then got to ask my questions, what eye type should

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Speaker 1: I be doing to find healthier work life balance. One

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Speaker 1: thing that has helped me is setting boundaries and making

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Speaker 1: time for self care activities such as meditation, exercise, and

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Speaker 1: spending quality time with loved ones. A future Laurie is

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Speaker 1: still following all the happiness practices. Hearing future me speaks

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Speaker 1: so positively and so vividly about my happiness practices made

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Speaker 1: me feel super motivated to make sure they actually happen.

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Speaker 1: I suddenly wanted to take better care of myself. I

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Speaker 1: asked about my future health. Would I take the steps

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Speaker 1: necessary to keep fit when I put things off until

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Speaker 1: it's too late. Future Laurie says, I'm happy to say

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Speaker 1: that sixty you're the happiest and healthiest you have ever been. Amazing.

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Speaker 1: Your dedication to self care and finding joy in life

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Speaker 1: is paid off.

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Speaker 3: So one thing that we told people when they participate

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Speaker 3: in our study is that this is not like a prophecy.

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Speaker 3: Oh yeah yeah, but this is just one possible future

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Speaker 3: that could happen, and we've encourage them to sort of

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Speaker 3: use this as a tool for reflection.

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Speaker 1: Hege has also felt the benefits of using future You.

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Speaker 1: It's made her think very differently about her academic career.

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Speaker 5: There are some some assignments where I've just been like,

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Speaker 5: I think it's more important now that I hand in

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Speaker 5: a piece of work that I'm proud of. But don't

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Speaker 5: let perfection be like the enemy of good, right, And

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Speaker 5: that is like a very like future sort of thing

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Speaker 5: to say, rather than a present Peggy.

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Speaker 3: Tegnology can be a powerful tool to teach us a

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Speaker 3: certain skill that we can internalize, and once you have that,

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Speaker 3: I don't think you need to continue over relying on technology.

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Speaker 5: I've spent so much time thinking through how this tool

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Speaker 5: will work best that I can sort of see my

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Speaker 5: own AI and simulate that conversation within myself without needing

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Speaker 5: to pull out the website.

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Speaker 1: And Peggy has realized that her older self isn't nearly

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Speaker 1: as pushy as she first expected. Future Peggy never demands

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Speaker 1: that current Peggy study more or work harder. The future

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Speaker 1: you chatbot seems much more worried that current Peggy isn't

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Speaker 1: taking enough time for breaks or finding time for activities

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Speaker 1: that she loves.

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Speaker 5: I think throughout the years, it's been harder to really

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Speaker 5: enjoy singing as a hobby, and knowing that my future

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Speaker 5: self would probably still be someone who just loves to

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Speaker 5: spend an hour or two singing show tunes. I try

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Speaker 5: not to let the side of me that thinks, okay,

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Speaker 5: this time could be used for something more quote unquote productive.

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Speaker 1: Peggy comment struck me hard. I also assume that my

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Speaker 1: older self would be a terrible task master, that she'd

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Speaker 1: be pissed about all my missed workouts and procrastination. I

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Speaker 1: assume she'd demand I do lots of stuff that she

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Speaker 1: needed to be happy. I assume she'd push current Laurie

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Speaker 1: to save a bunch of money and work out like

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Speaker 1: crazy and make harsh sacrifices. But future Laurie wasn't demanding.

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Speaker 1: She was compassionate. She seemed to just want me to

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Speaker 1: be happy. Now, It's important to continue taking care of yourself,

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Speaker 1: both physically and mentally, but don't worry too much. It's

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Speaker 1: is just a number, and with a positive mindset, you

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Speaker 1: will continue to thrive.

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Speaker 3: Up in all aspects of life.

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Speaker 1: Wow, was I yet again getting my future preferences all wrong?

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Speaker 1: We'll find out when the Happiness Lab returns in a moment.

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Speaker 4: I now have young kids, and when I think about

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Speaker 4: my future self now, I often think about what sort

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Speaker 4: of things will I look back on fondly and what

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Speaker 4: sort of things will I regret, especially in relation to

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Speaker 4: my interactions with my kids.

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Speaker 1: Psychologist Hal Hirschfield has spent decades interacting with versions of

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Speaker 1: his older self. At first, he assumed that paying more

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Speaker 1: attention to future How would involve more savings, more sacrifices,

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Speaker 1: more seriousness. But How's work has taught him that our

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Speaker 1: future selves aren't as industriously minded as we often assume.

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Speaker 2: The other day, my.

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Speaker 4: Son was in the bath and he was kind of

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Speaker 4: playing around. And I hate to admit this, but I

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Speaker 4: got a little bored.

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Speaker 1: Hall did what many multitasking parents do. He pulled out

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Speaker 1: his phone. He started going through work emails, looking at

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Speaker 1: his calendar, and trying to catch up on his news feeds.

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Speaker 1: He was using the present moment to be productive, to

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Speaker 1: catch up on stuff that might be useful for future How.

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Speaker 1: But would his older self really want him to be

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Speaker 1: doing that at bathtime with his son?

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Speaker 4: And I had this moment where I thought, this is

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Speaker 4: a short period of time. He's not going to always

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Speaker 4: want to spend time with me. Am I going to

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Speaker 4: look back on this time say I'm so glad that

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Speaker 4: I saw Whoever's photo on Instagram? Or am I gonna

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Speaker 4: you don't have wanted to be there with him? But

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Speaker 4: it's forced me to sort of like rethink a lot

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Speaker 4: of those interactions and say, you know, what sort of

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Speaker 4: things is my older self going to want to look

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Speaker 4: back at happily and say, I'm glad you did that

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Speaker 4: thing with your kids, I'm glad you acted that way.

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Speaker 1: Before writing his book, your future Self hel beat himself

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Speaker 1: up whenever he wasn't being productive. He naively assumed that

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Speaker 1: future How would always want him to prioritize the years

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Speaker 1: ahead over the present moment. But as Hell thought more

440
00:21:39,036 --> 00:21:42,276
Speaker 1: and more about sixty something, How, he realized that a frantic,

441
00:21:42,396 --> 00:21:45,276
Speaker 1: overwhelmed life in the present moment isn't what his future

442
00:21:45,316 --> 00:21:48,356
Speaker 1: self would want. Hell now has a very different perspective

443
00:21:48,556 --> 00:21:50,796
Speaker 1: on how to best make tomorrow happier today.

444
00:21:51,156 --> 00:21:54,236
Speaker 2: How can I look at both now and later rather

445
00:21:54,356 --> 00:21:55,916
Speaker 2: than make it a conversation about.

446
00:21:55,716 --> 00:21:56,996
Speaker 3: Now or later.

447
00:21:57,756 --> 00:21:59,996
Speaker 1: We can all be short sighted when looking into the future,

448
00:22:00,516 --> 00:22:02,916
Speaker 1: and this myapia means we don't do things that will

449
00:22:02,956 --> 00:22:05,516
Speaker 1: help us in the long term. But how says there's

450
00:22:05,556 --> 00:22:09,316
Speaker 1: an equal danger in extreme far sightedness, what researchers call

451
00:22:09,556 --> 00:22:10,276
Speaker 1: hyper apia.

452
00:22:10,796 --> 00:22:14,436
Speaker 4: The basic definition is when we act in ways that

453
00:22:14,556 --> 00:22:16,796
Speaker 4: are almost too future oriented.

454
00:22:16,916 --> 00:22:17,036
Speaker 5: Right.

455
00:22:17,156 --> 00:22:19,316
Speaker 2: We think we're doing something.

456
00:22:19,116 --> 00:22:21,036
Speaker 4: To put ourselves in a better place in the future,

457
00:22:21,756 --> 00:22:25,636
Speaker 4: and ironically we may be making life worse for ourselves

458
00:22:25,676 --> 00:22:27,556
Speaker 4: now and possibly worse for ourselves later.

459
00:22:27,876 --> 00:22:31,116
Speaker 1: I have many of my own cases of hyperopia, pushing

460
00:22:31,156 --> 00:22:33,556
Speaker 1: myself to get more email sent at the expense of

461
00:22:33,636 --> 00:22:37,356
Speaker 1: spending some evening hangout time with my husband working overtime

462
00:22:37,436 --> 00:22:40,196
Speaker 1: on this podcast, when I could be sleeping or working out,

463
00:22:40,916 --> 00:22:43,676
Speaker 1: eating lunch hunched over my laptop instead of stopping to

464
00:22:43,836 --> 00:22:46,956
Speaker 1: notice and enjoy the taste of my food. There are

465
00:22:47,036 --> 00:22:49,516
Speaker 1: so many times where I diligently push myself to be

466
00:22:49,636 --> 00:22:52,556
Speaker 1: productive at the expense of savoring whatever's going on in

467
00:22:52,596 --> 00:22:55,636
Speaker 1: the here and now. But future Laurie probably wouldn't be

468
00:22:55,636 --> 00:22:58,396
Speaker 1: happy about any of that. Future Laurie doesn't want me

469
00:22:58,476 --> 00:23:00,716
Speaker 1: to totally slack off, but she doesn't want me to

470
00:23:00,756 --> 00:23:03,196
Speaker 1: miss out on my life either, And how says, this

471
00:23:03,316 --> 00:23:06,236
Speaker 1: extreme busyness isn't the only form of hyperopia I should

472
00:23:06,236 --> 00:23:09,956
Speaker 1: worry about. His favorite example is a pervasive tendency that

473
00:23:10,116 --> 00:23:15,156
Speaker 1: marketing professor Suzanne schu has christened the procrastination of positive experiences.

474
00:23:15,916 --> 00:23:18,716
Speaker 4: The basic idea here is that we put things off

475
00:23:19,076 --> 00:23:22,316
Speaker 4: until the time will be right to do something, and

476
00:23:22,436 --> 00:23:24,636
Speaker 4: the time never comes around. You know, we saved some

477
00:23:25,196 --> 00:23:27,756
Speaker 4: nice bottle of wine for just the right occasion, and

478
00:23:27,836 --> 00:23:30,116
Speaker 4: then finally we decided to open it and the wine

479
00:23:30,156 --> 00:23:30,836
Speaker 4: has gone back.

480
00:23:31,436 --> 00:23:33,476
Speaker 1: Hal didn't realize just how much he was calling me

481
00:23:33,556 --> 00:23:36,436
Speaker 1: out with this particular example. My friend April gave me

482
00:23:36,516 --> 00:23:39,356
Speaker 1: a lovely bottle of Cabernet for Christmas that was currently

483
00:23:39,436 --> 00:23:42,316
Speaker 1: collecting dust on a shelf. I thought of super cute

484
00:23:42,396 --> 00:23:44,876
Speaker 1: dresses I had bought for the right time that were

485
00:23:44,956 --> 00:23:48,156
Speaker 1: still sitting unworn in my closet, or that restaurant gift

486
00:23:48,196 --> 00:23:50,476
Speaker 1: card from my dad that my husband and I never

487
00:23:50,556 --> 00:23:53,436
Speaker 1: found time to use, or all the scented candles and

488
00:23:53,516 --> 00:23:55,516
Speaker 1: bath bonds I planned to save her after a tough

489
00:23:55,636 --> 00:23:58,076
Speaker 1: day at work, but never got around to trying out,

490
00:23:58,996 --> 00:24:01,876
Speaker 1: or the thousands and thousands of frequent Flyer miles in

491
00:24:01,956 --> 00:24:04,476
Speaker 1: my account, just waiting for the time to finally be

492
00:24:04,636 --> 00:24:08,436
Speaker 1: right for that big beach vacation. I started this episode

493
00:24:08,476 --> 00:24:11,556
Speaker 1: worried about my my apia, but I was now realizing

494
00:24:11,596 --> 00:24:14,956
Speaker 1: that my hyperopia might pose an even bigger happiness challenge.

495
00:24:15,836 --> 00:24:19,756
Speaker 4: No, we can imagine putting off opportunities that we have

496
00:24:19,956 --> 00:24:22,036
Speaker 4: until the right time comes around, and then that time

497
00:24:22,156 --> 00:24:26,636
Speaker 4: rolls around, and maybe we're too old or too tired

498
00:24:26,716 --> 00:24:28,916
Speaker 4: to take that trip that we wanted. I think you

499
00:24:28,996 --> 00:24:32,636
Speaker 4: can also see this sort of thing with friendships. We

500
00:24:32,796 --> 00:24:36,396
Speaker 4: may think that that friendship, that relationship will always be there,

501
00:24:37,276 --> 00:24:40,516
Speaker 4: and it may take some work right now to invest

502
00:24:40,556 --> 00:24:43,156
Speaker 4: in it, but we don't have the time. We should

503
00:24:43,156 --> 00:24:45,156
Speaker 4: pay more attention to work. We should pay more attention

504
00:24:45,196 --> 00:24:46,436
Speaker 4: to thing that's going to get us in a better

505
00:24:46,476 --> 00:24:49,716
Speaker 4: position in the future. And you can imagine, Okay, things

506
00:24:49,796 --> 00:24:53,396
Speaker 4: finally settle down and that friendship is no longer the.

507
00:24:53,396 --> 00:24:54,356
Speaker 2: Way that it was.

508
00:24:54,596 --> 00:24:57,356
Speaker 4: The strong bond is no longer so strong because we

509
00:24:57,476 --> 00:24:59,876
Speaker 4: didn't spend the time on it and instead this other

510
00:24:59,916 --> 00:25:01,756
Speaker 4: stuff that we thought was better for our future.

511
00:25:02,356 --> 00:25:05,356
Speaker 1: Chatting with future Laurie made me super motivated to protect

512
00:25:05,396 --> 00:25:08,956
Speaker 1: her from hyperopic errors like these, But I asked how

513
00:25:09,356 --> 00:25:12,356
Speaker 1: how should I do that? His first suggestion was to

514
00:25:12,436 --> 00:25:13,716
Speaker 1: strive for a bit more.

515
00:25:13,636 --> 00:25:15,916
Speaker 2: Balance, Especially if we're hyper epic.

516
00:25:16,036 --> 00:25:19,396
Speaker 4: We may be motivated to do things now that will

517
00:25:19,436 --> 00:25:22,236
Speaker 4: put our future selves in a really good position, but

518
00:25:22,356 --> 00:25:25,676
Speaker 4: we can also dial things back and still obtain that

519
00:25:25,836 --> 00:25:28,436
Speaker 4: same goal. Right we can dial things back and spend

520
00:25:28,516 --> 00:25:30,796
Speaker 4: less time on work and more time with our relationships.

521
00:25:30,916 --> 00:25:33,276
Speaker 4: Or let's take another example, we can spend some more

522
00:25:33,316 --> 00:25:35,836
Speaker 4: money right now. You know, if we're hyperopic and the

523
00:25:35,876 --> 00:25:38,036
Speaker 4: saving domain, we can actually spend some more money right

524
00:25:38,076 --> 00:25:41,796
Speaker 4: now to gain experiences that later on we'll look back on.

525
00:25:41,956 --> 00:25:45,956
Speaker 1: Finally, being truly kind to our future self involves recognizing

526
00:25:46,076 --> 00:25:48,116
Speaker 1: that we can be happy in the present and in

527
00:25:48,196 --> 00:25:50,916
Speaker 1: the future. But to do that, we need to stop

528
00:25:51,036 --> 00:25:53,996
Speaker 1: thinking in terms of our present self versus our future self.

529
00:25:54,476 --> 00:25:56,316
Speaker 1: We need to instead look for ways that we can

530
00:25:56,396 --> 00:25:58,916
Speaker 1: help our present and future selves at the same time.

531
00:25:59,316 --> 00:26:02,116
Speaker 4: One sort of mindset shift that's really worked for me

532
00:26:02,396 --> 00:26:06,156
Speaker 4: is to constantly ask myself if I'm finding myself in

533
00:26:06,316 --> 00:26:11,476
Speaker 4: danger of acting hyperopically. Am I doing something now because

534
00:26:11,476 --> 00:26:14,476
Speaker 4: I think in an automatic wave just has to benefit

535
00:26:14,556 --> 00:26:17,996
Speaker 4: my future self? Or is there another tax that I

536
00:26:18,036 --> 00:26:21,556
Speaker 4: could take that would really benefit me now and later

537
00:26:21,636 --> 00:26:21,996
Speaker 4: as well.

538
00:26:24,796 --> 00:26:27,556
Speaker 1: Making this episode has encouraged me to think really deeply

539
00:26:27,796 --> 00:26:30,556
Speaker 1: about how to be kinder to my future self, which

540
00:26:30,636 --> 00:26:33,356
Speaker 1: is why I have brought a delicious and long overdue

541
00:26:33,396 --> 00:26:36,396
Speaker 1: glass of Cabernet into my podcast studio to save her

542
00:26:36,516 --> 00:26:41,436
Speaker 1: as I finished this episode. Ah, thanks April. It can

543
00:26:41,516 --> 00:26:43,516
Speaker 1: be hard to hear what our future selves really want.

544
00:26:44,076 --> 00:26:47,356
Speaker 1: We often ignore their preferences for rest and fewer obligations,

545
00:26:47,796 --> 00:26:50,236
Speaker 1: but we're also prone to seeing them as harsher task

546
00:26:50,316 --> 00:26:53,996
Speaker 1: masters than they really are. In reality, present and future

547
00:26:54,116 --> 00:26:57,596
Speaker 1: us often have more shared goals than we realize. Coming

548
00:26:57,636 --> 00:26:59,716
Speaker 1: face to face with future Laari has really helped me

549
00:26:59,796 --> 00:27:01,956
Speaker 1: get a better sense of the balance she'd want most

550
00:27:02,636 --> 00:27:05,716
Speaker 1: I'm more committed to helping her stay healthy and less overwhelmed,

551
00:27:06,156 --> 00:27:07,716
Speaker 1: but I also know that she'd want me to go

552
00:27:07,796 --> 00:27:11,716
Speaker 1: after these goals with more self compassion and presence. Oh,

553
00:27:12,116 --> 00:27:14,356
Speaker 1: and I know she wants to travel, so I'm finally

554
00:27:14,436 --> 00:27:17,516
Speaker 1: going to book that beach vacation, assuming my frequent Fire

555
00:27:17,596 --> 00:27:21,316
Speaker 1: miles haven't already expired. I hope you'll take time to

556
00:27:21,396 --> 00:27:24,116
Speaker 1: connect with your future self. You can write a letter

557
00:27:24,196 --> 00:27:26,796
Speaker 1: to next decade you, or try out a time machine

558
00:27:26,796 --> 00:27:29,156
Speaker 1: app on your phone. You can also be one of

559
00:27:29,196 --> 00:27:32,276
Speaker 1: the first beta testers of the MIT Media Labs chat

560
00:27:32,396 --> 00:27:36,676
Speaker 1: GBT Future You, which excitingly is available soon. You can

561
00:27:36,796 --> 00:27:39,596
Speaker 1: check out the link on our show notes get to

562
00:27:39,676 --> 00:27:42,836
Speaker 1: know your future self better. You'll like them, I promise.

563
00:27:43,956 --> 00:27:47,516
Speaker 1: But as current Laurie strives to become less hyperopic, she

564
00:27:47,636 --> 00:27:51,396
Speaker 1: may need some new strategies for overcoming yet another happiness challenge,

565
00:27:51,836 --> 00:27:55,436
Speaker 1: her obsession with being busy all the time. How can

566
00:27:55,476 --> 00:27:57,916
Speaker 1: I fight that mild sense of anxiety that crops up

567
00:27:57,996 --> 00:28:00,276
Speaker 1: whenever I try to take a break. How can I

568
00:28:00,356 --> 00:28:04,716
Speaker 1: fight my usual tendency towards overwork and overwhelm. That's what

569
00:28:04,836 --> 00:28:07,636
Speaker 1: I'll tackle in the next episode in this special season

570
00:28:07,836 --> 00:28:11,276
Speaker 1: on my personal happiness challenges, So be sure to remind

571
00:28:11,316 --> 00:28:14,156
Speaker 1: your future self to return for the next episode of

572
00:28:14,436 --> 00:28:17,276
Speaker 1: the Happiness Lab with me, Doctor Laurie Santos