Speaker 1: Hey there, I want to give you a heads up
Speaker 1: that this episode will discuss sexual abuse. Please listen with care.
Speaker 2: Previously on Hello John Dale, I think.
Speaker 3: Everybody's got an origin, and I would just like to
Speaker 3: know you know where I will get.
Speaker 2: The girls were traumatized by the tornado because we were
Speaker 2: in the trailer when the tornado hit and we had
Speaker 2: no way out. When you try to talk to her
Speaker 2: about certain things when we were little, she would change
Speaker 2: the subject real quick.
Speaker 4: Yes, she regrets that she didn't do everything that she could.
Speaker 4: She's putting a lot of the blame on herself, and
Speaker 4: I'm like, Mom, you know it's not just your fault.
Speaker 1: In the past few chapters, I've told you about Franklin
Speaker 1: for it's destructive impact on Steve's birth family. We heard
Speaker 1: how he kidnapped Steve's sister, Susie Sevegas, and how he
Speaker 1: kidnapped Michael, HER's son, and how Susie was killed and
Speaker 1: how Michael was never found. These stories are all part
Speaker 1: of the fabric of Steve's birth family, their traumatic past
Speaker 1: they've had to live with and grapple with. When Steve
Speaker 1: learned of his family of origin, some of their trauma
Speaker 1: became his trauma too, he started to mourn the sister
Speaker 1: that he never had. It's like Steve's been in during
Speaker 1: survivor's guilt and a feeling of being abandoned. At the
Speaker 1: same time, he's trying to figure out who he really is.
Speaker 1: He's facing an emotional mind field, and lately he can't
Speaker 1: stop thinking about the family never knew existed. Like his
Speaker 1: older sister, Amy Winkles, Sandy's third daughter. They found each
Speaker 1: other in twenty nineteen, the same way Steve found their mom,
Speaker 1: Sady on Facebook.
Speaker 2: I told her who I was.
Speaker 3: I think you're my sister, and then she's like, you
Speaker 3: gotta be kidding what I'm not kidding And then we
Speaker 3: just went back and forth from there.
Speaker 1: Amy read me some of those early Facebook messages.
Speaker 2: I said, Wow, I hate to say that I never
Speaker 2: believed her when she said we have had a brother
Speaker 2: named Steve, Well, let me tell you a little bit
Speaker 2: about me.
Speaker 1: The two shared DNA but knew almost nothing about each other,
Speaker 1: so they started feeling in each other in the details
Speaker 1: of their lives, if they were married, if they had kids,
Speaker 1: but they did for work for days. They talked on
Speaker 1: and off. Once he was ready, Steve asked something that
Speaker 1: had been weighing on him.
Speaker 2: And then he said, or are you calm enough to
Speaker 2: ask a question? And I said, yeah, what's on your mind?
Speaker 2: He said? Who is my dad?
Speaker 1: Steve hoped maybe Amy knew something no one else did,
Speaker 1: maybe she had some insight, but Amy didn't.
Speaker 2: I said, let me ask you something. How did you
Speaker 2: end up where you are? Did she give you away
Speaker 2: or what? He said, Yes, she gave me away. I said,
Speaker 2: did you have a good childhood? He said, call me.
Speaker 1: That's when Steve got real with Amy, and then he went.
Speaker 2: To his feelings, said that he's a bastard and I said, no,
Speaker 2: you're my brother, and that's what matters to me. He said,
Speaker 2: nobody cared about me. For forty five years.
Speaker 1: Steve felt abandoned, and he was fixated on the fact
Speaker 1: that his parents weren't even a couple, definitely not married.
Speaker 1: He was, in his words, a bastard. Amy set him straight.
Speaker 1: She read me the message just you sent to Steve.
Speaker 2: I didn't know you were alive. I was told you
Speaker 2: died as a baby. If I knew about you, I
Speaker 2: would have searched the world for you. I was robbed
Speaker 2: of knowing you and you were robbed of knowing me.
Speaker 1: She blamed some of this on her mom. Amy felt
Speaker 1: like Sandy didn't tell her the full story. When she
Speaker 1: was growing up. Sandy hadn't told her that Floyd forced
Speaker 1: her to give away Steve, or that she hitchhied looking
Speaker 1: for her missing kids. Now it was on Amy to
Speaker 1: make sense of the pastor for Steve. They talked on
Speaker 1: and off for the next two years, as the world
Speaker 1: dealt with COVID nineteen and travel was discouraged. In twenty
Speaker 1: twenty one, Aim and her husband packed up the car
Speaker 1: and made the trip from eastern Virginia to Charboro, North Carolina,
Speaker 1: to meet Steve for the first time. Both siblings had
Speaker 1: a serious case of the jitters, where they both act
Speaker 1: the same, look the same, but they get along.
Speaker 5: They stay focused on.
Speaker 1: The small details, the ones that were easier to control,
Speaker 1: and they kept texting.
Speaker 2: I said, we can come to you and order pizza,
Speaker 2: and he said, okay, we could go anywhere. I'll pay
Speaker 2: and I was like, on our way. He said, the
Speaker 2: place we were staying at right now is shitty and
Speaker 2: I'm embarrassed. I said, don't be. We aren't high allar either,
Speaker 2: and then he said, Okay, I'm nervous. I don't ever
Speaker 2: get nervous. I was like me too, and then I
Speaker 2: said I'm here.
Speaker 1: After almost fifty years apart, the siblings were face to face.
Speaker 2: We held each other tight. I mean I had said,
Speaker 2: oh my god, and I held a and I said, god,
Speaker 2: you look just like Papa.
Speaker 1: That's her grandpa, Sandy's dad.
Speaker 2: And it was like we held on for quite a while.
Speaker 3: It was kind of emotional. We got the same personality
Speaker 3: more or less. She's a little bit lighter now, she's
Speaker 3: got a sense of email. She'll tell you like it
Speaker 3: is too now. She don't should have coad anything. She's
Speaker 3: a trait shooter.
Speaker 1: That day in North Carolina wasn't just a reunion for
Speaker 1: Steve and Amy. There was someone else who said goodbye
Speaker 1: to Amy half a century ago. Mary Patterson, the woman
Speaker 1: who had adopted Steve.
Speaker 5: Than my family. Now, you know, you know you could
Speaker 5: have been my child.
Speaker 1: You might remember this from before Steve's adopted mama. Mary
Speaker 1: considered taking all of Sandy's four kids, but didn't have
Speaker 1: the room in her trailer. Mary had always wondered about
Speaker 1: the three girls she left behind, Susy, Allison, and now
Speaker 1: here was Amy in front of her.
Speaker 2: I could have had you, she said, you had a
Speaker 2: I mean, I wouldn't went through what.
Speaker 5: I went through.
Speaker 2: The first time she hugged me, you could feel her
Speaker 2: ex hell to know that she wanted me, but it
Speaker 2: wasn't able to take me and for her to be
Speaker 2: able to see that I was okay.
Speaker 1: If Amy or Stay were worried that they might run
Speaker 1: out of things to say, they were dead wrong.
Speaker 2: We cried quite a while, and then we just sat
Speaker 2: there and we talked, went out to eat and talk,
Speaker 2: fought over who was paying for what, you know, all
Speaker 2: that sort of stuff like Girls of the Slumber Party.
Speaker 2: You just want to sit around and talk and talk
Speaker 2: and talk.
Speaker 1: Finding the family stable loss was just the first step.
Speaker 1: The next was deciding how and where he fits in.
Speaker 1: At this point, Steve was open to Amy, but he
Speaker 1: wasn't so sure he wanted to know Sandy.
Speaker 2: I don't blame him for not wanting to talk to
Speaker 2: her at all, and I try not to talk about
Speaker 2: her to him because I feel kind of guilty because
Speaker 2: I lived with her our whole life and he didn't,
Speaker 2: and it wasn't his choice. That's part of the guilt
Speaker 2: that I have.
Speaker 1: Steve didn't know it yet, but Amy was once at
Speaker 1: a crossroads too, figuring out how she wanted Sandy in
Speaker 1: her life. For a couple of years, she stopped talking
Speaker 1: to their mom entirely. You see, Amy had her fair
Speaker 1: sheriff suffering under Sandy's roof. In this chapter, we'll go
Speaker 1: back to Amy's childhood and hear her mixed feelings a
Speaker 1: better upbringing. Steve missed all of it back then, but
Speaker 1: he was about to learn the trauma that shot through
Speaker 1: his birth family was worse than he could have imagined.
Speaker 1: My name is Todd Matthews and this is hello John Doe,
Speaker 1: a sleuth, a family, and a serial killer. The story
Speaker 1: of the family torn apart by a tragedy and my
Speaker 1: quest to bring them back together. Chapter eight, The Trouble
Speaker 1: Closer to Home. Amy's a bus driver in Isla, White County.
Speaker 1: It's a mostly rural county in eastern Virginia. Every day
Speaker 1: she makes her rounds and opens those doors with a smile.
Speaker 2: Those are my children. You don't know what their life
Speaker 2: is like outside of the time you see them.
Speaker 1: In a lot of cases, she just doesn't know what
Speaker 1: kind of home the kids are going back to maybe
Speaker 1: they're going hungry, maybe their parents just turn around.
Speaker 5: Maybe it's worse.
Speaker 2: I know that I may be the only smile they
Speaker 2: get in the day. I may be the only I
Speaker 2: love you, or I may be the only one that say, hey,
Speaker 2: we don't behave like that.
Speaker 1: To know Amy Winkles is to know what a big
Speaker 1: heart she has. She lets everyone in her kids, her family,
Speaker 1: even me. But she wasn't always this way.
Speaker 2: I beat all my brothers and sisters up all the time.
Speaker 1: When she was a kid. Amy was a bully of sorts.
Speaker 1: She often acted out. When I met her in Virginia,
Speaker 1: he was warm and friendly. She laughed a lot. I
Speaker 1: had a hard time squaring Nat with the raide she
Speaker 1: carried around in childhood.
Speaker 2: I was a fighter and then Dodi was the angel.
Speaker 2: So I was secretly beating tar out at Dodie wife. Yeah,
Speaker 2: I'd beat her up when nobody else was around.
Speaker 1: Dodie is Dorothy Sandy's youngest. Amy grew up in Sandy's
Speaker 1: house in coastal Virginia. Her dad was Dennis Brandenburg, the
Speaker 1: professional gambler.
Speaker 2: It's not a whole lot to tell. I mean, we
Speaker 2: grew up your typical low income family, but.
Speaker 1: She wasn't raised by her father. Amy was raised by Carson,
Speaker 1: Sandy's last husband, who died in twenty ten, the one
Speaker 1: she was married to for thirty years, who she called Sonny.
Speaker 2: He was the only dad I ever knew. I never
Speaker 2: got to meet my dad. I was told that he
Speaker 2: died before I was born.
Speaker 1: Later, Amy learned that wasn't true. Dennis wasn't dead after all,
Speaker 1: Sandy said Dennis his grandmother lied to her.
Speaker 5: Anyway.
Speaker 1: Growing up, Amy was violent toward her siblings, but she
Speaker 1: didn't really get why she kept laying her hands on them.
Speaker 1: Much later, she was able to connect it to something
Speaker 1: she dealt with as a child.
Speaker 2: Carson abused me from the time I was seven until
Speaker 2: I got out. It was sexual abuse. The whole nine yards.
Speaker 2: Anything you can think of happen happened from seven until
Speaker 2: I was fourteen. It started when I was seven.
Speaker 1: For several years, Amy didn't speak up, which is common.
Speaker 1: By the way, Amy was scared to fight back against Carson,
Speaker 1: her stepfather, or even to tell her mom. Sandy told
Speaker 1: us herself that she didn't always speak the right guy
Speaker 1: in her life, but she thought her husband of thirty years,
Speaker 1: the one that stuck around was the exception that Amy
Speaker 1: said that her mama often chose men over her kids,
Speaker 1: and Sandy could have a temper.
Speaker 2: If she had a man, she was fine. The time
Speaker 2: she didn't have a man, it was hell. It was
Speaker 2: like she was mad at all of us kids because
Speaker 2: she didn't have a man.
Speaker 1: The sexual abuse went on for seven years. At the
Speaker 1: beginning of high school, Amy met a boy named Mike Winkles.
Speaker 2: My husband and I are high school sweethearts. We started
Speaker 2: dating the first day of school. I was in ninth grade.
Speaker 2: He was a senior. He knocked my books out of
Speaker 2: my hand going down the hallway, and I grabbed his
Speaker 2: ear and made him pick a up right in front
Speaker 2: of all his friends. And we haven't been separated since.
Speaker 1: One day when they were in high school, Mike was
Speaker 1: ob at Amy's house, Carson, her stepfather had a strange request.
Speaker 2: For Mike asked him to go buy him some condoms.
Speaker 1: This startled Mike and it made him realize his girlfriend
Speaker 1: was being abused by her stepfather. He got angry and
Speaker 1: told Amy she was coming with him.
Speaker 2: I went to the house and packed it back. He said,
Speaker 2: you're leaving now, and I don't know if it's just
Speaker 2: when he said, why does your dad want me to
Speaker 2: go buy condoms or whatever? And I think I might
Speaker 2: have blurted out so he can use them on me.
Speaker 1: And that's when Amy went to her mother, Sandy.
Speaker 2: She believed me because he didn't deny it. I said
Speaker 2: something to her, and she said something to him, and
Speaker 2: he admitted to it. He never denied the abuse.
Speaker 5: Never I asked Sandy about it.
Speaker 6: She said that her dad had touched her, that Sonny
Speaker 6: had touched her. So I confront of him right away
Speaker 6: about it.
Speaker 5: Then she kicked him out.
Speaker 6: I made him leave. He was gone for a long time.
Speaker 6: He went to jail because of us.
Speaker 1: In nineteen eighty seven, Carsonus found guilty of sodomy and
Speaker 1: aggravated sexual battery and sentenced to one year in jail
Speaker 1: and forum probation. According to court records, when Amy told
Speaker 1: her mother what her stepfather had done, Sandy believed her,
Speaker 1: But what happened next caused the relationship to break down.
Speaker 2: Did she kicked me out? We went for two years.
Speaker 2: We didn't talked, two years, not a word.
Speaker 1: So Amy was all of fourteen when she spoke up
Speaker 1: about being sexually abused.
Speaker 5: She told me.
Speaker 1: From that moment on, she studied her boyfriend Mike's house
Speaker 1: with his family, and that's how it went. I asked
Speaker 1: Sandy if she kicked Damie out after she told her
Speaker 1: about the abuse, and she swore Amy left of her
Speaker 1: own volition.
Speaker 6: No, I did not blame her. I believe it.
Speaker 1: Then Sandy didn't deny Carson's abuse, but had a different
Speaker 1: perspective on what happened after. But you didn't ask, really,
Speaker 1: so she finally ended up going to live with Mike
Speaker 1: in his house. And so you didn't ask for the
Speaker 1: lead because she felt like you did.
Speaker 6: No, no, no, okay. Mike's parents let Mike do whatever
Speaker 6: they wanted to do, and they had no curfew, no rules,
Speaker 6: no nothing. And you know, at fifteen, no curse, you,
Speaker 6: no rule. If you don't want to go to school,
Speaker 6: you don't go to school. It sounds really good. So
Speaker 6: she went and told my family that she couldn't live
Speaker 6: with us anymore because we were too strict, and she
Speaker 6: went to lived at mike house.
Speaker 1: Obviously the two have conflicting stories, but think about it.
Speaker 1: Amy was just a teenager. Sandy was the parent. If
Speaker 1: she had made a fuss and told Amy to get
Speaker 1: her ayes home, she likely would have instead. Mother and
Speaker 1: daughter didn't talk for two whole years. After Carson served
Speaker 1: us one year behind bars, Sandy allowed him to move
Speaker 1: back in with her and the rest of the kids. Sandy,
Speaker 1: who had gotten herself out of what she calls an
Speaker 1: overbearing household in Detroit, then lived with PTSD plus the
Speaker 1: loss of two kids, finally met a guy who treated
Speaker 1: her right, but lost contact with her daughter as a result.
Speaker 1: Her husband abused her daughter, and Sandy still welcomed him
Speaker 1: back after he served his time.
Speaker 2: He did his time, but I wasn't allowed to go back.
Speaker 1: My experients were caring, they were often around, but they
Speaker 1: also had expectations. Amy is telling this different than Sandy's.
Speaker 1: Amy says, my experients were more strict.
Speaker 2: You follow the rules, of course, you had to go
Speaker 2: to school. At school. Before I moved in with them,
Speaker 2: I missed fifty four d's and I got caught sleeping
Speaker 2: in the parking lot in the car, and Mom would
Speaker 2: write notes like Amy was absent because she went to
Speaker 2: get her lazy ass out of bed. They'd excuse it.
Speaker 1: And even though Amy recognized her generosity and taking her in,
Speaker 1: and even though she loved Mike, she still had a
Speaker 1: tough time following those rules to a tea or choosing
Speaker 1: to do the right thing, or even knowing what the
Speaker 1: right thing even was.
Speaker 2: I'm not an angel, don't get me wrong. I've done
Speaker 2: some shady shit. I've drained our bank accounts. I've stole
Speaker 2: from his parents. You know, I didn't know what it
Speaker 2: was like having money. So when I moved on with them,
Speaker 2: and you had all these things and if you wanted it,
Speaker 2: you got it, and things like, I didn't understand that
Speaker 2: you worked for it before you could get it.
Speaker 1: Eventually something started to shifting Amy. She recognized what was
Speaker 1: going on. This was stability.
Speaker 2: There was always food. I just remember that there's always
Speaker 2: food to be like, oh you can get seconds, or
Speaker 2: you can get more.
Speaker 4: You know.
Speaker 2: It was just a complete flip flop of everything that
Speaker 2: I had got used to growing up. It was weird
Speaker 2: at first because I didn't know. I didn't know what love,
Speaker 2: what it really felt like.
Speaker 5: And she stopped acting out.
Speaker 2: I didn't fight anymore. I didn't get in fights. It's
Speaker 2: just things just changed. So it was a blessing.
Speaker 1: Things got better for Amy, but her relationship with her
Speaker 1: mama remained fractured. So let me wrap my mind around this.
Speaker 1: Amy's mam married a serial killer who kidnapped and killed
Speaker 1: Amy's sister Susy and her nephew, Michael. Unlike Susanne, Amy lived,
Speaker 1: She survived, and she can tell her story. Amy escaped
Speaker 1: the clutches of her monster. What's striking him as the
Speaker 1: parallel like her sister Amy and during sexual abuse at
Speaker 1: the hands of her own stepfather, even though she grew
Speaker 1: up in a different place and even though she stayed
Speaker 1: with her mom, she dealt with similar demons. Things are
Speaker 1: really complicated. For several years between Sandy and her daughter,
Speaker 1: and then in twenty ten, Carson had a heart attack
Speaker 1: and died suddenly. He and Sandy were on a trip
Speaker 1: together in Michigan at the time. Sandy couldn't drive home,
Speaker 1: so Amy went to get her. Death opened a door
Speaker 1: for them. Amy tried to fill Carson's role.
Speaker 2: If she wanted something, he found a way to get
Speaker 2: it for. You know, whether it meant when extra jobs
Speaker 2: or barter room with somebody or whatever. He got it for.
Speaker 5: So Amy did the same thing.
Speaker 2: She is one of the first ones that a woe
Speaker 2: is me In a second, I fell for it for
Speaker 2: a long time. After Carson died, I paid her bills
Speaker 2: and forgot our bills, didn't pay our bills.
Speaker 1: By this point, Amy was about forty and married to Mike,
Speaker 1: her high school sweetheart, so you know, it.
Speaker 2: Almost cost me a marriage. And then he was like,
Speaker 2: you gotta stop.
Speaker 1: That's when Sandy and Amy stopped talking again. During that time,
Speaker 1: the FBI agents knocked on Sandy's door. They asked for
Speaker 1: DNA samples so they could figure out if she was Susie.
Speaker 1: Saveka's his mom. You know this story. This is where
Speaker 1: Sandy realized Susie had been killed by Floyd. For the
Speaker 1: first few weeks after Sandy found out, Amy just blew
Speaker 1: her off, didn't believe that she was telling her the
Speaker 1: truth about Susie. She realized there was an entire book
Speaker 1: about her sister that Sandy wasn't lying. Her sister was
Speaker 1: out there for two decades, and Amy had no idea
Speaker 1: someone could have saved Susie.
Speaker 2: It made me so mad to know that she was alive.
Speaker 2: We knew she had gotten kidnapped. MoMA always said she
Speaker 2: got kidnapped, but because I couldn't remember, I was like, whatever,
Speaker 2: you're so full shit, whatever, because she lies a lot.
Speaker 2: She's always lied a lot my whole life.
Speaker 1: This was a turning point. Amy started to talk to
Speaker 1: her mom again. It was a tragic way to reunite
Speaker 1: a family, but it is a silver lining. Sandy had
Speaker 1: to make peace with the fact that she lost a daughter,
Speaker 1: but in this moment of utter agony, she was reunited
Speaker 1: with another. Then, in twenty nineteen, the family found the
Speaker 1: biggest silver lining in the whole story. Steve Patterson was alive.
Speaker 2: I feel a little guilty because I didn't get to
Speaker 2: grow up with him I didn't get to p protect
Speaker 2: him or show him how to do things, or you know,
Speaker 2: things a big sister would do.
Speaker 1: Now Amy's in her fifties and Sandy's in her seventies.
Speaker 1: They only live about an hour apart from each other.
Speaker 2: I forgave, I forgave, I forgive, I forgave, And Steven says,
Speaker 2: do you talk to Trim like you? I almost every day.
Speaker 2: I just saw her yesterday. I mean, you would think
Speaker 2: we were a normal TV family or whatever. Like nobody
Speaker 2: knows the dark secrets.
Speaker 1: Amy has that essence about her. You just kind of
Speaker 1: feel comfortable, like she's seen some shit and doesn't judge
Speaker 1: you whatsoever.
Speaker 2: I love my mom, I really do. Do I like
Speaker 2: her sometimes?
Speaker 4: No?
Speaker 2: Do I like the choices she's made some? No, but
Speaker 2: I love her. She's still my mom.
Speaker 1: Amy's lived long enough to realize everybody's done something they
Speaker 1: ain't proud of. After all, Amy used to beat up
Speaker 1: her siblings. She put her marriage on the line. Amy
Speaker 1: is mature enough to realize she's not perfect, and neither
Speaker 1: is their mama.
Speaker 2: Am I mad at her?
Speaker 5: Yes?
Speaker 2: Hell, yeah, I'm pissed. I just can't walk away. You know,
Speaker 2: after everything I've been through, I cannot walk away.
Speaker 5: And you forgive her?
Speaker 2: I think. I don't know if I forgive her or
Speaker 2: just to accept her. I'm a grown woman, I have
Speaker 2: children of mine. I've seen shit, been through shit. Everybody
Speaker 2: has a past. Everybody has a past.
Speaker 1: At this point in her life, Amy sees lots of
Speaker 1: people as worthy of love and forgiveness, even if they
Speaker 1: do some messed up things. That's part of why she's
Speaker 1: good at her job and.
Speaker 2: Drive a school bus cause of little kids, the children
Speaker 2: I have. Nobody wanted those children because they were so
Speaker 2: out of control. They needed to be held responsible for
Speaker 2: their behavior. I know what it's like to not feel love,
Speaker 2: and I think that plays a big part on how
Speaker 2: much compassion and patience I have. They love me, they
Speaker 2: have my phone number, they call me, they text me,
Speaker 2: We talk trash.
Speaker 1: Based on what Amy's telling me about growing up, she
Speaker 1: could have used someone like this, someone that gave her
Speaker 1: both disciplined and unshakeable compassion.
Speaker 5: I guess she'd call that tough love.
Speaker 1: A few years ago, Amy had a heart attack. It
Speaker 1: happened around the time she was getting to know Steve.
Speaker 1: I'm not sure if that's why she opened up to Steve,
Speaker 1: but maybe it made her more inclined to get to
Speaker 1: know him better. In middle age, Amy's come closer and
Speaker 1: closer to this truth. We're more than her past, and
Speaker 1: we can dig out I need.
Speaker 2: People don't understand. You're not about your past. Your past
Speaker 2: is you passed. And I tell the kids all the
Speaker 2: time if they have a bad morning on the bus,
Speaker 2: make better choices when you get into school, and that
Speaker 2: it's just who I am. I don't know.
Speaker 1: I think that's that's what's louder. To talk to her
Speaker 1: mom again and to be someone Steve feels so comfortable with.
Speaker 1: I mean, I felt comfortable meeting her for the first time.
Speaker 1: She's incredibly warm, has this wonderful belly life. She welcomed
Speaker 1: me with open arms, and I can imagine the way
Speaker 1: she embraced her little brother.
Speaker 2: I think we can make up for loss her just
Speaker 2: to know that they're there. They're there.
Speaker 5: In a way.
Speaker 1: Both siblings are dealing with a lot of wiffs right now.
Speaker 1: Steve's wondering what it might have been like growing up
Speaker 1: in Sandy's house, and Amy wonders what it might have
Speaker 1: been like if she was adopted by Mary. They didn't
Speaker 1: grow up in the same house. But lately they're both
Speaker 1: thinking about the road not taking.
Speaker 2: I feel like he's a little bit jealous because I
Speaker 2: had our actual warm and I'm jealous that he didn't
Speaker 2: have her, And I think he feels guilty because he
Speaker 2: had a natural life.
Speaker 1: On one hand, they both envy each other a little bit.
Speaker 1: On the other hand, they're envia something the two of
Speaker 1: them have in common. There's also a truth that both
Speaker 1: had to confront. They're both lucky to be here. When
Speaker 1: their sister, Susy didn't survive. Franklin Floyd could have taken
Speaker 1: either of them too. Amy can see the big picture
Speaker 1: now that Steve avoided the clutches of Franklin Floyd. But
Speaker 1: I don't think Steve's there yet. He still believes he
Speaker 1: was thrown away. He can't fully see that he's alive
Speaker 1: because his mom gave him away.
Speaker 2: So although he had a good life with Mary and
Speaker 2: her raising him and everything, I still feel like he's
Speaker 2: upset that he was given away, you know, instead of
Speaker 2: being part of the family. He was given away when
Speaker 2: in all reality has saved his life.
Speaker 1: Steve and Amy chose each other, filled a hole in
Speaker 1: each other's lives. But Dorothy, Sandy's youngest daughter, hasn't got
Speaker 1: to know her long lost brother as well, not the
Speaker 1: way Amy has. Li was down the street from Sandy,
Speaker 1: so she was right there when she found out Steve
Speaker 1: was alive.
Speaker 4: She said, you wouldn't believe who got in contact with me.
Speaker 4: I was like, who Stephen Phillips my son?
Speaker 1: And I was like, oh, Dorothy is the child of
Speaker 1: Sandy and Carson, a child from that last long marriage.
Speaker 1: Growing up, she thought Stephen gone missing. Now she learned
Speaker 1: he was living one state over in North Carolina.
Speaker 4: I feel like the how can I say it's the
Speaker 4: keeper of everybody? I'm always in everybody's business.
Speaker 1: So naturally, Dorothy found him on Facebook and started snooping.
Speaker 4: And I was like, oh my god, he looks just
Speaker 4: like my grandfather. I knew he was family automatically because
Speaker 4: he We all have the same eyes, the almond shape
Speaker 4: of him, we all have them. I'm a text message here.
Speaker 4: I told him and say, hey, I'm your younger sister,
Speaker 4: and and we talked.
Speaker 1: Dorothy was super excited to know this brother of hers.
Speaker 1: She got to FaceTime with him.
Speaker 4: And I taught him. I was like, you know, look, dude,
Speaker 4: I was like, we take trips down in North Carolina
Speaker 4: a bunch.
Speaker 1: She and her husband go down there for motorcycling events.
Speaker 1: She tried to get in touch, come on through.
Speaker 4: You know, I can get you into the pit. Not
Speaker 4: a problem.
Speaker 1: Steve never responded. I don't know why I didn't, and
Speaker 1: I don't know if he plans to. When I played
Speaker 1: him some of Dorothy's interview, he didn't seem to even
Speaker 1: really process that he had another sister. From his perspective,
Speaker 1: it seemed he had three older sisters, Susie, Allison, and Amy,
Speaker 1: but he didn't really take Dorothy into account the same
Speaker 1: way she did him. It was almost like he drew
Speaker 1: a line between siblings born before him and those Sandy
Speaker 1: kept actors. She let him go and Dorothy ended up
Speaker 1: feeling rejected.
Speaker 4: Where did we go wrong? Because we were talking. I
Speaker 4: just want to know where we went wrong. I just
Speaker 4: I want to hold him. He's my brother.
Speaker 1: Dorothy had already started making space in her life Steve,
Speaker 1: even before she knew he was still alive. She told
Speaker 1: her kids about his disappearance.
Speaker 4: All of my kids know the story. I mean even
Speaker 4: my stepsons, they know the story. And in that short
Speaker 4: time that I did video chat with him, I knew
Speaker 4: right then and there he's perfect.
Speaker 1: He's perfect.
Speaker 4: He is us.
Speaker 1: This is what it looks like on the flip side,
Speaker 1: to find a lost brother, but to have him not
Speaker 1: claim you. As of Tray Steph's family tree, I've thought
Speaker 1: a lot about meeting long lost relatives who we let
Speaker 1: in and who we keep at arms link, Sharon Blood,
Speaker 1: isn't enough. Being in someone's life is a choice that
Speaker 1: two people have to make. We asked Eve about what
Speaker 1: it's been like finding his sisters after all this time.
Speaker 3: Anything you want it out of us just to get
Speaker 3: the I guess, just to get to know him a
Speaker 3: little bit better.
Speaker 7: I would like to know who my dad is. I mean,
Speaker 7: that's one of the biggest things for me, I think,
Speaker 7: out of this whole situation, but I could get the
Speaker 7: get to know the girls a little bit better'd be
Speaker 7: pretty cool.
Speaker 1: He said, he wants to get to know his sisters
Speaker 1: a little better. But it might be that he only
Speaker 1: wants to get to know his older sisters, not the
Speaker 1: one Sandy birth and raised after giving him away. Maybe
Speaker 1: that's why when Steve went looking for Sandy's family, he
Speaker 1: wasn't totally satisfied with what he found. He's told me,
Speaker 1: still skeptical of her story, that she didn't realize she
Speaker 1: was giving him up permanently, that she worked hard to
Speaker 1: find him, and there was no doubt his biggest interest
Speaker 1: was finding his father. I decided to help him. Look
Speaker 1: what we found.
Speaker 5: Surprised us both.
Speaker 1: That's next time on Hello John Doe.
Speaker 2: He wants those answers. We're going to do everything we
Speaker 2: can and as a family to help him get those answers.
Speaker 1: Hello John Doe is an original productions by Revelations Entertainment
Speaker 1: in association with First and last productions from Revelation.
Speaker 5: Our executive producers.
Speaker 1: Are Morgan Freeman and James Younger from first to last.
Speaker 1: Lindsay Moreno is the executive producer. Our producing partner is
Speaker 1: neo On Home Media. It was written and produced by
Speaker 1: Kate Michigan. Our editor is Katherine Saint Louis. She is
Speaker 1: also neil On Home Media's executive editor. Our executive producer
Speaker 1: is Sharah Morris. Our development producer is Ian Lindsay. Our
Speaker 1: associate producer is Rufaro Faith Maserua. Sound design and mixing
Speaker 1: by Scott Servell. Themon original music composed by Jesse Pearlstein.
Speaker 1: Additional music came from Epidemic Sound and Blue Dot Sessions.
Speaker 1: Vindall Faulton is our fact checker. Our production manager is
Speaker 1: Samantha Allison from my Heart Media. Dylan Fagan is our
Speaker 1: executive producer. Special thanks to Adelia Ruben at ne On
Speaker 1: Hum and Carrie Lieberman and Will Pru at iHeartMedia.
Speaker 5: I'm Todd Matthews. You can learn more about name us
Speaker 5: at nam us dot com.
Speaker 1: The number for the National Center for Missing Exploited Children's
Speaker 1: Call Center is one eight hundred. The loss that's one
Speaker 1: eight hundred, eight four three five six seven eight. The
Speaker 1: National Sexual assauld hotline from the Rate Abuse and Incest
Speaker 1: National Network is one eight hundred sixty five six four
Speaker 1: six seven three. Okay, guys, this is the end of
Speaker 1: the show. If you didn't like it, don't do anything.
Speaker 1: But if you did like it, you make sure that
Speaker 1: your rate and review the show. It helps more people
Speaker 1: to find it and hear this wonderful story. Thanks again
Speaker 1: for listening.