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Speaker 1: All right, Joel, I've got a frugal or cheap for

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Speaker 1: you here before we kick off this besty episode. You're

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Speaker 1: ready for it, ready. So it's summer. We are getting

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Speaker 1: to the end of our time that we had our

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Speaker 1: season pass for six Flags and White Water, two theme

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Speaker 1: parks here in Atlanta, and we went recently. You know.

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Speaker 1: It's just it's like one of those classic summer things

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Speaker 1: to do here in Atlanta, and we purchased one refillable

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Speaker 1: drink container. They've got these drink things where you can

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Speaker 1: fill them an unlimited number of times, but they're expensive,

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Speaker 1: like a thirty dollars container. Yeah, twenty three of twenty three,

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Speaker 1: twenty four, and I was like, wait a minute, you

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Speaker 1: can just have one and just refill it an unlimited

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Speaker 1: number of times. Since I told Cap, I'm just gonna

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Speaker 1: go get one of these jokers and our family of

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Speaker 1: six we're going to share. That's one drink container. And

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Speaker 1: so we were there for hours filling it up. We

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Speaker 1: were there all day and we were constantly refilling that thing.

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Speaker 1: But I'm curious, what are your thoughts frugal or cheap

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Speaker 1: to take? Take that path? Would you have spent twenty

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Speaker 1: three dollars or would you have spent forty six or even.

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Speaker 2: More now, I mean I probably would have tried to

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Speaker 2: take the r rat. Yeah, and some of our listeners

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Speaker 2: might think it's ridiculous, but gosh, that is expensive, and

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Speaker 2: that's it's expensive, dude. And that's exactly I think they're

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Speaker 2: assuming a lot of people are gonna do that when

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Speaker 2: they you know, when they drop charge that much money

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Speaker 2: for some sort of refillable.

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Speaker 1: Beverage coup they do think that, which is why so

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Speaker 1: the ones that you could it's a self serve kiosk. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: there's actually a chip in the bottom of the cup,

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Speaker 1: and yeah, it's supposed to limit how often you're able

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Speaker 1: to refill it. I think you're only allowed to refill

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Speaker 1: it like every thirty minutes or something. Oh interesting that

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Speaker 1: being said, if you just walk up to a window

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Speaker 1: where they also refill them, they just take it and

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Speaker 1: refill it for you.

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Speaker 2: So we did a lot more of that. Man even

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Speaker 2: got to work the system a little bit. The cups

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Speaker 2: are getting technologically shaving.

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Speaker 1: No so literally, there's like I think it's the RFID,

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Speaker 1: the radio frequency ID chip in the bottom of the cups.

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Speaker 1: You set it down, it knows that there's a cup

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Speaker 1: there that's legit, uh, and it allows you to fill

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Speaker 1: it up, but if it has registered the fact that,

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Speaker 1: oh no, you've got to drink thirty seconds ago, and

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Speaker 1: your kid just chugged that coke like there's no tomorrow,

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Speaker 1: which is dude. My kids were like bouncing off the

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Speaker 1: wall because we never we never drink soda and coke

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Speaker 1: and that is all I mean, that's all they have.

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Speaker 1: It's either lemonade or Powery. Those were the least sugar

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Speaker 1: leaden drinks that I mean that I guess we were

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Speaker 1: opting for.

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Speaker 2: That's a good way to prohibit consumption too, right where

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Speaker 2: it's like, Harry, how you gonna have a little. But

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Speaker 2: guess what, we're all sharing this thing, and so if

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Speaker 2: you get your own forty two ounce beverage, you know

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Speaker 2: that that's just that's just asking for diabetes. So I

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Speaker 2: felt like we were all, yeah, whatever the pre diabetes.

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Speaker 2: But yeah, I was curious.

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Speaker 1: I was definitely wondering if I was taking the cheap

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Speaker 1: path because when I said, when I told Kate I

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Speaker 1: was just gonna get one, she kind.

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Speaker 2: Of rolled her eyes.

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Speaker 1: Of course you are, she knew how we roll. But

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Speaker 1: so our episode today though, our bestI episode, because Joel,

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Speaker 1: you and your family, our family were actually at the beach.

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Speaker 2: And by the way, no more bestI starting.

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Speaker 1: I know, I had a lot.

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Speaker 2: Sorry, we've been moving. I've been moving back into my house.

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Speaker 2: We've been at We're the Beast this this week, and

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Speaker 2: so this is an actual vacation that we had actually planned,

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Speaker 2: whereas the Yeah, some of the other ones, we just

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Speaker 2: realized that we were not going to be able to

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Speaker 2: record ahead enough. But next week back to normal.

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Speaker 1: That being said, though, the Besties that we've been able

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Speaker 1: to re air, I think are they are They're They're

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Speaker 1: really good. And there's a reason that we're choosing these

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Speaker 1: specific ones because we feel that the content that's being

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Speaker 1: delivered with these episodes is definitely worth hearing again or

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Speaker 1: for a lot of listeners out there who haven't been

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Speaker 1: with us for that long, we think these are the

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Speaker 1: episodes that you need to be hearing. So this episode,

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Speaker 1: we hear from gorick ing about the unspoken rules of

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Speaker 1: career success. There are all these things that aren't formally

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Speaker 1: taught in school, and we kind of talk through what

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Speaker 1: it takes to get ahead. We talk about some of

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Speaker 1: the softer skills that are required to advance in your career.

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Speaker 2: Let's hear it. Welcome to Hat of Money. I'm Joel

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Speaker 2: and I am Matt, and today we're talking the Unspoken

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Speaker 2: rules of career success with gorek Ing.

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Speaker 1: Getting ahead in life and succeeding in your career depends

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Speaker 1: on just a lot more than doing a great job.

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Speaker 1: Just because you're a competent software engineer or nurse or

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Speaker 1: whatever it is that you do, that doesn't mean that

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Speaker 1: you will automatically climb the ranks and see your salary

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Speaker 1: increase with promotions, with additional responsibility. And that's because there

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Speaker 1: are things that managers and things that bosses expect but

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Speaker 1: they never explain to you. This is the basis for

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Speaker 1: gorick Ing's best selling book, The Unspoken Rules Secrets to

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Speaker 1: Starting your Career off Right. Gorick is a career advisor

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Speaker 1: at Harvard focusing on coaching first generation low income students.

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Speaker 1: But then before that, he gained plenty of professional experience

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Speaker 1: from working in management, consulting, investment banking, and as a

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Speaker 1: researcher with the Harvard Business School. But regardless of your

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Speaker 1: specific job, we're excited to discuss the different unspoken ways

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Speaker 1: that you can find success in your career. Gorick, thank

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Speaker 1: you for joining us today on the podcast.

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Speaker 3: Joel Matt, thanks so much for having me. Thrilled to beer.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, well, we're thrilled to have you go, Rick, and Yeah,

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Speaker 2: this is gonna be really, I think, a really interesting conversation.

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Speaker 2: Your research and your history are just going to make

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Speaker 2: for a really like Yeah, there's a lot of good

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Speaker 2: stuff to cover here today. But before we get into

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Speaker 2: some of that stuff, I want to know Matt and

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Speaker 2: I we like craft beer, as you know, and it

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Speaker 2: is something that we spend a decent bit of money

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Speaker 2: on in the here now while trying to save and

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Speaker 2: invest well for the future. So, yeah, do you have

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Speaker 2: something like that in your life, a splurge that you make,

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Speaker 2: you're making while you're also prioritizing putting some money away

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Speaker 2: in your savings account or and also like in those

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Speaker 2: investment accounts.

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Speaker 3: It has to be ice cream chunky away. I like

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Speaker 3: to work for my ice cream, so it needs to

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Speaker 3: be chunky, need to put in some effort for it

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Speaker 3: to go down.

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Speaker 1: What do you mean that you like a favorite brand

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Speaker 1: or something like that. Yeah, you said it needs to

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Speaker 1: be chunky. What do you mean that's like moose tracks

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Speaker 1: or what?

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Speaker 3: Yeah, like moose tracks, anything that I need to chew

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Speaker 3: onky funny Funny you say, what does chunky mean? Because

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Speaker 3: I've actually gotten that question from a number of I've never.

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Speaker 1: Heard ice cream described as chunky before, but you're talking

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Speaker 1: about in the beer world, they call them adjuncks. So

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Speaker 1: all the additional bits of candy or chocolate, moose tracks, butterfinger,

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Speaker 1: that kind of stuff. That's I guess that's what you're

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Speaker 1: looking for in your ice cream.

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Speaker 3: Yes, exactly. And maybe I'm in search of a new

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Speaker 3: adjective then, because I've been confusing a lot of people

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Speaker 3: with my used to the word chunky.

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Speaker 1: Well, I guess it's the opposite of Down here, we've

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Speaker 1: got a lot of Chick fil A's and ice Dream

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Speaker 1: is the ice cream that they serve, and it's just

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Speaker 1: a super smooth, very creamy.

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Speaker 2: Taste, like the hand churned stuff that your grandmother is

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Speaker 2: it does.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, it's kind of cut like that, like a

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Speaker 1: old school homemade flavor going on with it. But Greg,

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Speaker 1: it's funny that you mentioned that, because I guess it

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Speaker 1: was a couple of months ago we talked with Clark Howard,

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Speaker 1: and he also that's his splurge. He's trying to them

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Speaker 1: up and the top dollar on really nice ice cream.

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Speaker 1: So you too, ot to get together do a little

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Speaker 1: tour of the country and visit all the best ice

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Speaker 1: cream spots. Yeah, but Gary, we want to dig into

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Speaker 1: your background just a little bit before we kind of

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Speaker 1: start talking about your book, your career Expertise. It basically

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Speaker 1: started when you were pretty young, at the age of fourteen.

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Speaker 1: Can you share that story with us?

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Speaker 3: Sounds good, Yeah, it's kind of weird that it all

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Speaker 3: began back when most of us, I certainly were focused

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Speaker 3: on playing video games more so than building our careers.

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Speaker 3: Where I was fourteen years old and my mom, who

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Speaker 3: is a single mother, came home with a pink slip

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Speaker 3: and it said that she was laid off from the

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Speaker 3: sewing machine factory job that she had held since she

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Speaker 3: was twelve years old. And I, as the person in

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Speaker 3: the house who knew how to speak English and get

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Speaker 3: onto the internet, became the person to step up. And

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Speaker 3: so I ended up spending recesses learning to write resumes

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Speaker 3: and cover letters, afternoons at the public library looking for jobs,

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Speaker 3: and evenings coaching my mom. I put very thick, italicized

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Speaker 3: bolded quotes around coach. It was really the blind leaving

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Speaker 3: the blind there. We applied to hundreds of jobs and

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Speaker 3: didn't end up getting any callbacks, where my mom ended

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Speaker 3: up actually returning to school, getting an early childcare assistant certificate,

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Speaker 3: and so things worked out. But it was that experience

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Speaker 3: that led to me wondering what was I missing? How

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Speaker 3: could I, as someone who did well in school, who

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Speaker 3: saw myself as resourceful, not be able to help my

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Speaker 3: mom get back on her feet. And it took a

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Speaker 3: number of years for me to find the answer. And

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Speaker 3: it actually took a few experiences after that to find

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Speaker 3: the answer, one of which came in high school where

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Speaker 3: I met a student from another school who had applied

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Speaker 3: to Yale University and had gotten in, and over the

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Speaker 3: course of getting to know her and having her take

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Speaker 3: me under her wings, I learned that getting into college

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Speaker 3: required a lot more than just tossing over an essay

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Speaker 3: and hoping for the best. There was a certain style

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Speaker 3: of essay that people were expecting. There's a certain way

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Speaker 3: of holding your hands your teacher's hands through the admissions process,

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Speaker 3: the recommendation process that no one really tells you about.

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Speaker 3: And these unspoken rules, as I call them now, ended

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Speaker 3: up working. I ended up becoming the first of my

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Speaker 3: family to go to Harvard to go to college in general,

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Speaker 3: but was lucky enough to have gotten into Harvard as

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Speaker 3: an undergraduate. And when I was at Harvard, it was

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Speaker 3: the first time that I was within such close proximity

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Speaker 3: to so many people who could call their parents, doctors

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Speaker 3: and lawyers and senators, people that I would read about

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Speaker 3: in the newspapers but didn't even know I could interact with.

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Speaker 3: And over the course of getting to know these classmates

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Speaker 3: and friends, started realizing that there's really this informal curriculum

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Speaker 3: that some of us end up getting over the dinner

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Speaker 3: table from our parents, mentors, siblings, that many more of us,

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Speaker 3: folks from my background, for example, end up never getting

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Speaker 3: and end up having to learn through trial and error

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Speaker 3: and so over the course of my early career and

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Speaker 3: to this day, I started reflecting on, Wow, well, what

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Speaker 3: responsibility do I have to hopefully pay a smoother path

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Speaker 3: for people coming after me?

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Speaker 1: And that all.

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Speaker 3: Has led to me writing this book and hoping to

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Speaker 3: spend the next stretch of my career paving a smoother

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Speaker 3: path for people coming after me.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, in your book you actually say that there are

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Speaker 2: insiders and outsiders, even in like the prestigious world of

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Speaker 2: a college like Harvard, and you felt like an outsider.

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Speaker 2: So why was that? What were those what was causing

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Speaker 2: those feelings?

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Speaker 3: Yeah, it was this feeling of looking left looking right,

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Speaker 3: almost as if it were a middle school dance, and

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Speaker 3: seeing everyone grooving on the dance floor and looking left

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Speaker 3: looking right and standing there awkwardly being like, there's something

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Speaker 3: I'm missing here.

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Speaker 2: And I got to say, I totally identify with that

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Speaker 2: because that sounds like exactly what happened to me in

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Speaker 2: seventh grade.

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Speaker 1: So you and I both, so y'all just did there awkwardly,

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Speaker 1: and me and my friend Javier were just playing tag

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Speaker 1: where the idiot sixth grader is that Everyone was just like,

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Speaker 1: what are you doing? This is the day.

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Speaker 3: It happens on a regular basis at a higher education institution.

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Speaker 3: It happens all the time in the workplace, and it

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Speaker 3: manifests itself in the form of in college, for example,

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Speaker 3: some students really knowing how to navigate the system and

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Speaker 3: building good relationship with their professors, knowing how to navigate

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Speaker 3: recruiting events and job fairs and getting jobs that aren't

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Speaker 3: even advertised. And then in the workplace, you have some

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Speaker 3: folks who put their heads down and work hard and

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Speaker 3: wonder why they're not getting that promotion or that high

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Speaker 3: profile project. Meanwhile, someone else who may be working less

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Speaker 3: hard or less or are less competent, end up getting

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Speaker 3: all that visibility. It's not a matter of what you know.

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Speaker 3: It's a matter of who you know, and it's not

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Speaker 3: a matter of whether you're just simply fulfilling the job

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Speaker 3: description that you've been assigned. But it's about how you

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Speaker 3: go above and beyond in these unspoken, unwritten ways.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and even still like you endured some real hardships

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Speaker 1: growing up, and yeah, like you said, it wasn't the

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Speaker 1: smoothest path for you to get where you are now,

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Speaker 1: even though you were a hard worker. You know, we're

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Speaker 1: talking about these unspoken rules, Like it's almost as if

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Speaker 1: like you were learning proper etiquette. It's not something that

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Speaker 1: it's necessarily directly taught, but it's something that sometimes folks

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Speaker 1: are able to learn either secondhand, or they see it demonstrated,

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Speaker 1: or there's somebody else in their life that is able

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Speaker 1: to kind of mentor them or shepherd them. But yeah,

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Speaker 1: like I don't know. The more we kind of dove

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Speaker 1: int your book, I was just like, man, this really

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Speaker 1: feels like being taught like manners or just proper etiquette,

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Speaker 1: or like Southern etiquette or something different that isn't as

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Speaker 1: widespread as you would expect. Yeah.

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Speaker 3: And the thing about so many of these unspoken rules

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Speaker 3: is they can come across as common sense. And I've

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Speaker 3: gotten that feedback from some people who would say, why

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Speaker 3: are you just writing down common sense? And it actually

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Speaker 3: led to a point where I was contemplating the subtitle

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Speaker 3: of the book and one of the options of like

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Speaker 3: a couple dozen was common sense. That's only common sense

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Speaker 3: looking back, And that's how I feel about so many

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Speaker 3: of these rules.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, that's yeah, that's interesting some of them, Like when

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Speaker 2: I'm reading them, I'm like, yeah, that makes sense. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: that makes sense intuitively to me. But you're probably right

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Speaker 2: part of it is because of like the water x whaymen,

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Speaker 2: like how I grew up.

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Speaker 1: Well, I think it probably too depends on just the

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Speaker 1: kind of work that you're doing. I think there might

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Speaker 1: be certain professions, certain fields where maybe interacting with other

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Speaker 1: folks isn't as important. So there maybe there is less

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Speaker 1: reading people's emotions or understanding communication style, different things like that,

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Speaker 1: And maybe it might only be about the work. But

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Speaker 1: I think as our world evolves, it's clear that it's

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Speaker 1: not just about doing really good work. You have to

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Speaker 1: be able to integrates into these systems and to do

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Speaker 1: that well in.

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Speaker 2: Order to be successful. Yeah, and go rek. Now you

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Speaker 2: help first generation low income students so that they don't

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Speaker 2: have to go through trial and error scenarios, right, like

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Speaker 2: some of the ones that you went through in your life.

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Speaker 2: And what would you say, like, are navigating these unspoken

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Speaker 2: rules like the biggest hurdles that they face when it

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Speaker 2: comes to succeeding in the workplace.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I'd say the unspoken rules are a big piece.

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Speaker 3: I'd say another piece is around confidence and a sentence

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Speaker 3: I often find myself saying to first gend, low income

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Speaker 3: college students and those who are coming from underrepresented backgrounds,

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Speaker 3: is that there's a difference between confidence and competence. Where

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Speaker 3: competence is how much you know and can do. Confidence

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Speaker 3: is how much you think you know and can do

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Speaker 3: and you need both. Where I often hear stories of

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Speaker 3: people and I was certainly in the situation myself where

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Speaker 3: you're in a meeting and you have this idea that

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Speaker 3: you want to bring up, but you're thinking to yourself

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Speaker 3: and you have a self talk of is this a

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Speaker 3: stupid comment? Or is this common sense? And so you're

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Speaker 3: debating with yourself constantly about is it even worth raising

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Speaker 3: this idea? And five minutes later, someone else says the

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Speaker 3: exact same thing and gets all the credit. In those situations,

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Speaker 3: I've certainly found myself in this situation a fair bit

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Speaker 3: and I start realizing, wait a sec is it the

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Speaker 3: case that this actually was a smarter comment than I

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Speaker 3: had thought, and or this other person may just have

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Speaker 3: lower expectations than I do for what makes a smart comment,

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Speaker 3: And in having lower standards they ended up getting all

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Speaker 3: the credit and getting ahead. That's the difference between competence

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Speaker 3: and confidence.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it's almost as if overthinking it can just yeah sometimes. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: How many of these unspoken rules do you think have

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Speaker 1: to do with just cultural differences between whether it be

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Speaker 1: just the different backgrounds that families have or where individuals

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Speaker 1: are raised. In the United States, that's a big one

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Speaker 1: for sure. And I would say that these unspoken rules

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Speaker 1: are becoming more and more important as companies have more

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Speaker 1: global teams and are hiring folks from very different backgrounds,

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Speaker 1: where some of these cultural norms may not have permeated

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Speaker 1: the waters in the same way that they may have

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Speaker 1: permeated the waters for these so called insiders. And so

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Speaker 1: when I think of working cultures across geographies, certainly there

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Speaker 1: are some that are more hierarchical, where you speak when

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Speaker 1: spoken to. There are others that are less hierarchical, where

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Speaker 1: you're expected to speak up, contribute, disagree with your manager,

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Speaker 1: and in fact disagreement is encouraged and rewarded. And then

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Speaker 1: they're also as I think about my Asian upbringing, for example,

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Speaker 1: certainly there's this unspoken norm or hidden expectation that you'd

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Speaker 1: respect your elders, and when someone who is higher ranking, older,

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Speaker 1: more experienced, is speaking, you'd wait your turn, and you'd

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Speaker 1: not only just wait your turn, but you'd withhold your

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Speaker 1: comments until you're called upon, if you are even called upon.

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Speaker 1: And so there is some unlearning and relearning. That's not

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Speaker 1: to say that there's a right or wrong way of

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Speaker 1: doing things. To your point, it's very much a matter

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Speaker 1: of cultural differences. Where in American working culture. Because of

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Speaker 1: this difference between confidence and competence, the people who make

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Speaker 1: it up to the top aren't necessarily the most competent.

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Speaker 1: They might just be the most confident. And so there

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Speaker 1: is this phenomenon where the system as it stands, at

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Speaker 1: least in American corporate life, doesn't always reward people for

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Speaker 1: the characteristics that organizations really care about.

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Speaker 2: Interesting, well, we want to talk more about the unspoken

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Speaker 2: rules and get into some of what they are and

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Speaker 2: talk about how you can think about those so that

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Speaker 2: you can improve your work habits inside of the place

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Speaker 2: where you're working. And we'll get to ask some more

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Speaker 2: questions with gorek about that right after this break. All right,

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Speaker 2: we are back.

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Speaker 1: We're speaking with gorick Ing about his book The Unspoken

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Speaker 1: Rules of Career Success as our topic today and growic

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Speaker 1: your book is it's kind of a how to guide.

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Speaker 1: There are things like we like we said earlier that

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Speaker 1: like managers expect you to implicitly know, but many of

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Speaker 1: these things are never explicitly taught. In your first chapter

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Speaker 1: in your book, it's all about the three c's. You've

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Speaker 1: already mentioned one of them, which is competence, but the

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Speaker 1: other ones are commitment, and compatibility. You sort of introduced

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Speaker 1: this us to the framework for the book, and so

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Speaker 1: why do you feel that it is just so important

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Speaker 1: to prove yourself in all three of these areas? Specifically, Yeah, it's.

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Speaker 3: Because when we show up in the workplace and I

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Speaker 3: define workplace as in an interview, in your first day

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Speaker 3: in a new role, and frankly thereafter until you retire,

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Speaker 3: the people around you, your clients, partners, managers, coworkers, they're

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Speaker 3: sizing you up and they're asking themselves three questions. Question

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Speaker 3: one is can you do this job well? Which is competence.

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Speaker 3: Question two is are you excited to be here? Which

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Speaker 3: is commitment? And question three is do we get along?

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Speaker 3: Which is compatibility? Competence, commitment, compatibility. The three c's your job, frankly,

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Speaker 3: all of our jobs, it's to convince the people around

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Speaker 3: us to answer yes to all three questions all the time.

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Speaker 3: And I'll maybe augment my statement earlier by saying that

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Speaker 3: supposedly the three c's count in the realm of dating

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Speaker 3: as well. So it may not just be a workplace concept.

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Speaker 3: Could it potentially be a life concept. That's something that's

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Speaker 3: a more recent shower thought for you.

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Speaker 2: Now, yeah, I feel like, actually I heard you refer

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Speaker 2: to like marriage advice and how building compatibility with coworkers

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Speaker 2: can be similar to building compatibility inside of like a

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Speaker 2: long term partnership, Like, yeah, do you think there's some

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Speaker 2: similarities there?

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I'm thrilled you're mentioning this because this is actually

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Speaker 3: one of my favorite ideas from the book, even though

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Speaker 3: I don't spend all that much time talking about it.

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Speaker 3: It's this idea of bids, which is an idea that

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Speaker 3: was created by a psychologist and a marriage expert named

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Speaker 3: doctor John Gottman. Doctor John Gottman observed couples that stay

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Speaker 3: together and have happy marriages and compared them to couples

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Speaker 3: who end up separating. And his question was what separates

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Speaker 3: those who stay together from those who separate? And he

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Speaker 3: found that the lowest common denominator it was something called bids.

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Speaker 3: Where I'll illustrate it with an example where if your

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Speaker 3: significant other says something like I'm hungry, and let's say

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Speaker 3: you're driving down the freeway, You've got three options. You

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Speaker 3: can either pull off at the McDonalds just one right, Yeah, exactly,

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Speaker 3: you can ignore the bid, so just keep driving, pretend

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Speaker 3: as if they didn't say anything. Or the third one

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Speaker 3: is you can smack down that bid and you can

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Speaker 3: say didn't you just eat? Or aren't you trying to

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Speaker 3: lose weight?

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Speaker 2: Oh, don't do that one.

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Speaker 3: And as you might be able to guess there's a

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Speaker 3: right answer to this question, I suspect that you all

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Speaker 3: are thinking of the right answer now, But just to

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Speaker 3: toss it back to you, what's your guess?

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Speaker 1: Well, I'm guessing it's like, yeah, what're you feeling like? Yeah,

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Speaker 1: likef and grabbing something, or I'm like very like analytical.

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Speaker 1: It's like, all right, are you hungry in like the

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Speaker 1: next ten minutes? Hungry? Are you talking in like the

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Speaker 1: next two hours? You can run along trip, you know,

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Speaker 1: sometimes you just want to make good time.

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Speaker 2: Or you might be like I brought a granola bar,

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Speaker 2: it's in my backpack, let me grab.

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Speaker 3: A Yeah exactly. So I can already tell that you're

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Speaker 3: in positive relationship territory, because according to this research, the

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Speaker 3: right answer is to recognize the bid, which you both

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Speaker 3: have done, and to positively embrace this bid, which you

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Speaker 3: have also both done. And this is what is the

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Speaker 3: lowest common denominator to what makes for a happy relationship

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Speaker 3: and marriage, and yes, this is a marriage concept, but

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Speaker 3: as I think about relationship building more broadly and career

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Speaker 3: building more broadly, I think we can translate this idea

435
00:22:34,280 --> 00:22:39,320
Speaker 3: of bidding into the workplace, where every email, every meeting

436
00:22:39,320 --> 00:22:42,919
Speaker 3: that you're invited to, every exchange of eye contact, that

437
00:22:43,040 --> 00:22:46,480
Speaker 3: too is a bid. It's an invitation. It's a hidden

438
00:22:46,520 --> 00:22:51,359
Speaker 3: opportunity for you to step up, build a relationship that

439
00:22:51,520 --> 00:22:55,280
Speaker 3: may not have otherwise existed, make an impact, and potentially

440
00:22:55,320 --> 00:22:59,639
Speaker 3: grow your career. And so this bidding idea is one

441
00:22:59,640 --> 00:23:02,000
Speaker 3: that I've been thinking about a lot because and maybe

442
00:23:02,000 --> 00:23:04,840
Speaker 3: this comes back to the first generation low income college

443
00:23:04,880 --> 00:23:08,520
Speaker 3: students that I advise at Harvard, where I can't help

444
00:23:08,560 --> 00:23:11,240
Speaker 3: but think that we all, over the course of our lives,

445
00:23:12,240 --> 00:23:16,320
Speaker 3: are almost walking down a similar art gallery together, and

446
00:23:16,320 --> 00:23:19,280
Speaker 3: we're all looking at the same painting, but we're coming

447
00:23:19,320 --> 00:23:23,200
Speaker 3: to two different conclusions around what this painting depicts. One

448
00:23:23,200 --> 00:23:25,800
Speaker 3: of us could see this painting and see the boats

449
00:23:25,840 --> 00:23:29,560
Speaker 3: in the foreground or the sunset in the background. Someone

450
00:23:29,600 --> 00:23:33,240
Speaker 3: else could see the trees in the distance. And I

451
00:23:33,280 --> 00:23:37,400
Speaker 3: think of this walking down an art gallery slash observing

452
00:23:37,400 --> 00:23:41,880
Speaker 3: a painting comparison as apt for real life because over

453
00:23:41,880 --> 00:23:44,119
Speaker 3: the course of our everyday lives, we're going to be

454
00:23:44,160 --> 00:23:47,399
Speaker 3: faced with so many bids, so many opportunities. But it

455
00:23:47,400 --> 00:23:51,199
Speaker 3: takes a special mindset and awareness to be able to

456
00:23:51,240 --> 00:23:53,480
Speaker 3: recognize these bids and to embrace these bids. That's the

457
00:23:53,560 --> 00:23:55,960
Speaker 3: key to getting in and getting ahead.

458
00:23:56,119 --> 00:23:58,960
Speaker 1: That's going to be the key to working with others, especially.

459
00:23:58,960 --> 00:24:03,040
Speaker 1: I mean, I guess if you're constantly slamming down, yeah,

460
00:24:03,240 --> 00:24:05,440
Speaker 1: that's not gonna go well, doesn't lead to very good teamwork.

461
00:24:05,480 --> 00:24:07,840
Speaker 1: And maybe if you're working by yourself, that's something that

462
00:24:08,119 --> 00:24:11,240
Speaker 1: you don't have to consider quite as much. But certainly, yeah,

463
00:24:11,240 --> 00:24:13,240
Speaker 1: if you're working with a partner or working on a team,

464
00:24:13,600 --> 00:24:15,960
Speaker 1: you got to keep that in mind. Go Rick, one

465
00:24:16,080 --> 00:24:19,359
Speaker 1: of the unspoken rules that you mentioned in your book proactivity,

466
00:24:19,720 --> 00:24:22,200
Speaker 1: What does that look like? Why is this so important

467
00:24:22,240 --> 00:24:23,960
Speaker 1: when it comes to getting ahead in your career?

468
00:24:24,280 --> 00:24:24,720
Speaker 2: Mm hmm.

469
00:24:25,119 --> 00:24:27,800
Speaker 3: Well, for the early career folks. I like to say

470
00:24:27,840 --> 00:24:33,160
Speaker 3: that school is about keeping up, so not procrastinating, whereas

471
00:24:33,480 --> 00:24:37,040
Speaker 3: work in life is about stepping up. It's about going

472
00:24:37,080 --> 00:24:40,520
Speaker 3: the extra mile. It's about looking around corners. It's about

473
00:24:40,560 --> 00:24:43,280
Speaker 3: asking how can I be helpful and then ultimately being

474
00:24:43,280 --> 00:24:47,640
Speaker 3: helpful and when it comes to getting ahead in the workplace,

475
00:24:47,680 --> 00:24:51,600
Speaker 3: whether you're striving for a promotion, more important responsibilities, the

476
00:24:51,640 --> 00:24:55,919
Speaker 3: respect of your coworkers, better relationships, and expanded network. So

477
00:24:56,040 --> 00:24:59,320
Speaker 3: much of this comes down to not just being reactive

478
00:24:59,359 --> 00:25:03,560
Speaker 3: but proactive, So being the person that says, hey, I

479
00:25:03,640 --> 00:25:07,600
Speaker 3: noticed this, how can I be helpful? Or I noticed this?

480
00:25:07,640 --> 00:25:11,679
Speaker 3: How we considered that? Or Hey, I was thinking about

481
00:25:11,680 --> 00:25:13,800
Speaker 3: options A, B and C. I was thinking of B.

482
00:25:14,000 --> 00:25:16,200
Speaker 3: What do you think which is a very different way

483
00:25:16,200 --> 00:25:21,040
Speaker 3: of interacting with your coworkers compared to saying, Hey, Joel, Matt,

484
00:25:21,119 --> 00:25:23,560
Speaker 3: what do I do next, in which case a lot

485
00:25:23,600 --> 00:25:26,920
Speaker 3: of managers will say, well, what do you think You.

486
00:25:26,920 --> 00:25:28,680
Speaker 2: Kind of want to have that be able to offer

487
00:25:28,760 --> 00:25:30,320
Speaker 2: up a solution from the get.

488
00:25:30,119 --> 00:25:33,520
Speaker 3: Go, right, And it is one of these unspoken norms

489
00:25:33,520 --> 00:25:36,760
Speaker 3: in the workplace where these high performers at work are

490
00:25:36,920 --> 00:25:39,520
Speaker 3: ones who aren't just going to their managers and co

491
00:25:39,720 --> 00:25:42,960
Speaker 3: workers with problems, but are coming to the table with

492
00:25:43,600 --> 00:25:45,240
Speaker 3: proposals and solutions.

493
00:25:45,560 --> 00:25:48,840
Speaker 2: Yeah. A part of being proactive is thinking ahead and

494
00:25:48,880 --> 00:25:51,120
Speaker 2: having the ability to tell your own story and tell

495
00:25:51,160 --> 00:25:53,199
Speaker 2: it well. And you kind of talk about that in

496
00:25:53,240 --> 00:25:55,280
Speaker 2: the book Why do you feel like that is so important,

497
00:25:55,320 --> 00:25:58,359
Speaker 2: and especially some of us maybe we're raised in cultures

498
00:25:58,400 --> 00:26:01,399
Speaker 2: where talking about ourselves was something that was frowned on.

499
00:26:01,480 --> 00:26:03,919
Speaker 2: It's always like you're always defecting. But you have to

500
00:26:03,920 --> 00:26:05,560
Speaker 2: be able to talk about yourself.

501
00:26:05,720 --> 00:26:10,040
Speaker 3: Well, right, yes, And it's the first question you'll get

502
00:26:10,080 --> 00:26:14,880
Speaker 3: in every interview, which is, tell me about yourself.

503
00:26:15,280 --> 00:26:18,160
Speaker 1: As they're sitting down in the chair, tell me about yourself.

504
00:26:19,400 --> 00:26:22,480
Speaker 1: I can see the hiring manager right now, exactly.

505
00:26:22,640 --> 00:26:25,560
Speaker 3: And it's a nerve wracking question because if you just

506
00:26:25,600 --> 00:26:28,719
Speaker 3: take it at face value, which I did, and so

507
00:26:28,800 --> 00:26:31,960
Speaker 3: many students that I advise still do, which is okay,

508
00:26:32,480 --> 00:26:35,000
Speaker 3: tell you about myself. So do you want to know

509
00:26:35,040 --> 00:26:38,000
Speaker 3: about my hometown? Are you asking about my hobbies? What

510
00:26:38,119 --> 00:26:42,200
Speaker 3: I ate for breakfast this morning? It's this ambiguous question,

511
00:26:43,040 --> 00:26:46,760
Speaker 3: but there is an unspoken way of answering this question,

512
00:26:46,800 --> 00:26:50,000
Speaker 3: which is in the form of what's called the hero's journey,

513
00:26:50,040 --> 00:26:53,920
Speaker 3: which is a concept by Joseph Campbell where he looked

514
00:26:53,960 --> 00:26:58,800
Speaker 3: at the tales that have lasted the test of time,

515
00:26:59,560 --> 00:27:02,679
Speaker 3: and he's looked at you know, the Anakin skywalkers of

516
00:27:02,680 --> 00:27:06,080
Speaker 3: the world, the Harry Potters of the world, the Mulins

517
00:27:06,119 --> 00:27:08,800
Speaker 3: of the world, et cetera. And all of these heroes

518
00:27:08,840 --> 00:27:11,840
Speaker 3: and heroines, they have a past, a present in a

519
00:27:11,880 --> 00:27:15,160
Speaker 3: future where there's a spark that led to this journey.

520
00:27:15,240 --> 00:27:18,480
Speaker 3: Starting in the first place, there's a journey that this

521
00:27:18,560 --> 00:27:23,399
Speaker 3: hero or heroine goes down of slaying dragons and hopping

522
00:27:23,400 --> 00:27:27,919
Speaker 3: over fire pits, all in the interest of pursuing some

523
00:27:28,080 --> 00:27:32,600
Speaker 3: broader goal. And when people are asking tell me about yourself,

524
00:27:32,600 --> 00:27:35,240
Speaker 3: they're actually in some ways asking for your hero's journey,

525
00:27:35,920 --> 00:27:38,879
Speaker 3: where they're asking you to say something like, you know,

526
00:27:38,920 --> 00:27:43,920
Speaker 3: I've always been interested in climate change as someone who

527
00:27:44,000 --> 00:27:48,439
Speaker 3: grew up in a coastal community. I saw my dad,

528
00:27:48,480 --> 00:27:55,240
Speaker 3: who was a fisherman, struggle to meet his quota season

529
00:27:55,240 --> 00:27:58,919
Speaker 3: after season after season, and over the course of growing

530
00:27:59,000 --> 00:28:04,399
Speaker 3: up and pursuing a degree in environmental science, I started

531
00:28:04,400 --> 00:28:07,760
Speaker 3: realizing that, Wow, it's not just an issue that my

532
00:28:08,040 --> 00:28:11,240
Speaker 3: dad is facing, but it's a problem that all of

533
00:28:11,320 --> 00:28:14,280
Speaker 3: humanity is and will be facing. So as I think

534
00:28:14,320 --> 00:28:15,960
Speaker 3: about what I'd like to do in the future, I'd

535
00:28:16,000 --> 00:28:20,560
Speaker 3: love to combine my interest in environmentalism with my training

536
00:28:20,760 --> 00:28:23,760
Speaker 3: in data science to be able to help the world

537
00:28:23,960 --> 00:28:28,400
Speaker 3: make more data driven decisions around how to navigate this crisis.

538
00:28:28,400 --> 00:28:32,480
Speaker 3: So I just totally made that up. My dad is

539
00:28:32,480 --> 00:28:37,240
Speaker 3: not a fisherman. But when I just think.

540
00:28:37,119 --> 00:28:40,160
Speaker 2: Together these different bits and pieces of your life that

541
00:28:40,320 --> 00:28:42,280
Speaker 2: help tell a story, and I think sometimes it takes

542
00:28:42,320 --> 00:28:44,560
Speaker 2: a little it takes some forethought on the front end

543
00:28:44,800 --> 00:28:46,840
Speaker 2: before you get into that interview to be able to

544
00:28:46,880 --> 00:28:50,920
Speaker 2: tell that story well, because otherwise it's just bits and pieces,

545
00:28:50,960 --> 00:28:52,880
Speaker 2: it's fragments, and you want to be able to weave

546
00:28:52,920 --> 00:28:53,640
Speaker 2: it together.

547
00:28:53,400 --> 00:28:57,960
Speaker 3: Right, exactly exactly, So what I think of, of course,

548
00:28:58,000 --> 00:29:00,440
Speaker 3: you don't want to sound all two canned, yeah, and

549
00:29:00,960 --> 00:29:03,520
Speaker 3: as if you're reading off a script. So what I

550
00:29:03,640 --> 00:29:06,840
Speaker 3: like to do is just have a collection of stories

551
00:29:07,280 --> 00:29:12,160
Speaker 3: in my mind where these are as I think about

552
00:29:12,160 --> 00:29:14,560
Speaker 3: the other more common questions you'll get it's tell me

553
00:29:14,560 --> 00:29:17,200
Speaker 3: about a time when right, it's tell me about a

554
00:29:17,200 --> 00:29:19,480
Speaker 3: time when you had conflict in the workplace, or tell

555
00:29:19,480 --> 00:29:20,920
Speaker 3: me about a time when you had to step up,

556
00:29:21,040 --> 00:29:24,400
Speaker 3: or tell me about a time when you had to

557
00:29:24,480 --> 00:29:26,840
Speaker 3: own a project from start to finish. Well, all of

558
00:29:26,840 --> 00:29:29,280
Speaker 3: those things are in some ways also as asking for

559
00:29:29,320 --> 00:29:33,920
Speaker 3: your hero's journey. So having a bank of what sparked

560
00:29:33,920 --> 00:29:37,520
Speaker 3: your interest, what you've done to further this interest, and

561
00:29:37,600 --> 00:29:42,080
Speaker 3: where you'd like to combine things. Going forward can help

562
00:29:42,120 --> 00:29:44,560
Speaker 3: you almost pull ingredients out of the fridge to cook

563
00:29:44,600 --> 00:29:46,840
Speaker 3: up a dish depending on whatever people want to eat.

564
00:29:47,440 --> 00:29:50,120
Speaker 1: Yeah, well, we kind of are talking about thinking ahead

565
00:29:50,160 --> 00:29:52,680
Speaker 1: here a little bit, Grek. It seems like so much

566
00:29:52,760 --> 00:29:55,920
Speaker 1: of excelling out work and getting the job done is

567
00:29:56,160 --> 00:29:59,880
Speaker 1: thinking ahead. It's amazing. You know what feeling prepared that

568
00:30:00,000 --> 00:30:01,760
Speaker 1: can do for a meeting or a check in with

569
00:30:01,800 --> 00:30:04,280
Speaker 1: your boss? And so can you share some examples you

570
00:30:04,360 --> 00:30:05,720
Speaker 1: talk about this in your book. Can you share some

571
00:30:05,760 --> 00:30:09,080
Speaker 1: examples of what thinking ahead could look like for employees?

572
00:30:09,800 --> 00:30:12,600
Speaker 3: Yeah? The first one, as I think about meetings is

573
00:30:12,640 --> 00:30:16,800
Speaker 3: to mentally rehearse meetings. So before you walk into the room,

574
00:30:17,000 --> 00:30:19,680
Speaker 3: asking yourself, who's going to be in the room, what

575
00:30:19,720 --> 00:30:21,840
Speaker 3: are they going to be looking for, What are they

576
00:30:21,880 --> 00:30:24,080
Speaker 3: going to ask me for? What are they going to

577
00:30:24,120 --> 00:30:27,840
Speaker 3: ask me about? What's my one smart comment or one

578
00:30:27,880 --> 00:30:33,080
Speaker 3: smart question, what's my point of view in this topic?

579
00:30:34,000 --> 00:30:36,320
Speaker 3: And coming prepared. You don't have to necessarily do a

580
00:30:36,320 --> 00:30:39,240
Speaker 3: book report for yourself every time, but just even the

581
00:30:39,360 --> 00:30:42,320
Speaker 3: ten seconds that it takes to join this zoom call

582
00:30:42,400 --> 00:30:47,000
Speaker 3: or team's call or whatnot, refreshing your mind as to

583
00:30:47,120 --> 00:30:49,120
Speaker 3: what your point of view is and who might be

584
00:30:49,160 --> 00:30:51,800
Speaker 3: in the room and what your contribution is going to

585
00:30:51,840 --> 00:30:54,440
Speaker 3: be can be the difference between you getting caught off

586
00:30:54,440 --> 00:30:58,760
Speaker 3: guard and you looking like and frankly being put together.

587
00:30:59,160 --> 00:31:02,280
Speaker 3: So that's one something that we all encounter on a

588
00:31:02,320 --> 00:31:07,760
Speaker 3: daily basis, which is meetings. The second is around thinking

589
00:31:07,800 --> 00:31:12,360
Speaker 3: back to the Alec Baldwin movie of ABC Always be Closing.

590
00:31:13,120 --> 00:31:14,840
Speaker 2: That's right, good old school movie there.

591
00:31:15,040 --> 00:31:19,680
Speaker 3: Yeah, and ABC is not just a sales concept. It's

592
00:31:19,920 --> 00:31:23,280
Speaker 3: just as much an email thread concept. For example, where

593
00:31:24,160 --> 00:31:27,760
Speaker 3: there are some people who will take an email and

594
00:31:28,080 --> 00:31:30,520
Speaker 3: toss it right back at you and for example, ask

595
00:31:31,200 --> 00:31:34,200
Speaker 3: when are you available, and then they'll say, well, I'm

596
00:31:34,240 --> 00:31:39,280
Speaker 3: available next week. Well, you could push the agenda forward

597
00:31:39,360 --> 00:31:42,040
Speaker 3: simply by offering your availability in the other person's time

598
00:31:42,120 --> 00:31:45,800
Speaker 3: zone and maybe listing out three five. In my case,

599
00:31:45,800 --> 00:31:49,040
Speaker 3: I often will list up my entire week's availability. That way,

600
00:31:49,760 --> 00:31:51,920
Speaker 3: all the other person has to do is pick a

601
00:31:51,960 --> 00:31:54,760
Speaker 3: time and you're done, versus having to spend you know,

602
00:31:54,800 --> 00:31:57,080
Speaker 3: five ten emails going back and forth and asking well

603
00:31:57,120 --> 00:31:58,320
Speaker 3: what do you think? What do you think?

604
00:31:58,840 --> 00:32:01,800
Speaker 2: There's nothing more annoying then going back and forth and

605
00:32:01,800 --> 00:32:04,640
Speaker 2: back and forth about a time, so I agree, like, yeah,

606
00:32:04,760 --> 00:32:08,040
Speaker 2: just for simplicity's sake and for being helpful like tossing

607
00:32:08,040 --> 00:32:11,720
Speaker 2: out those that time availability is like yeah, definitely one

608
00:32:12,080 --> 00:32:14,240
Speaker 2: easy thing you can do to make people on your

609
00:32:14,240 --> 00:32:17,640
Speaker 2: team's life a little bit easier. And when it comes

610
00:32:17,640 --> 00:32:21,080
Speaker 2: to managing workload, you know, in the workplace, it's important

611
00:32:21,120 --> 00:32:23,720
Speaker 2: to know the difference between what's urgent and important, right

612
00:32:23,720 --> 00:32:25,840
Speaker 2: you talk about that in your book, like how do

613
00:32:25,920 --> 00:32:29,240
Speaker 2: we distinguish between those things? And why is that such

614
00:32:29,280 --> 00:32:31,880
Speaker 2: an important part of being an ineffective worker?

615
00:32:33,120 --> 00:32:36,160
Speaker 3: Yes, is probably one of the more important concepts, especially

616
00:32:36,320 --> 00:32:39,360
Speaker 3: as we're all juggling multiple balls at the same time.

617
00:32:39,920 --> 00:32:47,400
Speaker 3: Where important I define as centrality, scrutiny, and criticality, So

618
00:32:47,520 --> 00:32:52,200
Speaker 3: a lot of ease here. Centrality is how core is

619
00:32:52,240 --> 00:32:54,560
Speaker 3: this responsibility to your role? So if this is something

620
00:32:54,600 --> 00:32:58,120
Speaker 3: that you're hired to do, that's important. Scrutiny is who's

621
00:32:58,160 --> 00:33:01,440
Speaker 3: paying attention, So if the sea is asking for an update,

622
00:33:01,720 --> 00:33:04,240
Speaker 3: that's probably a sign that this is a high profile project.

623
00:33:04,280 --> 00:33:07,480
Speaker 3: And if someone's asking about it, you should be responsive

624
00:33:07,800 --> 00:33:12,240
Speaker 3: to it. And then finally, criticality is is this something

625
00:33:12,400 --> 00:33:15,640
Speaker 3: that if this doesn't get done, nothing else gets done

626
00:33:16,240 --> 00:33:20,360
Speaker 3: if so, that's important as well. And urgency I define

627
00:33:20,400 --> 00:33:25,960
Speaker 3: as proximity, scrutiny, anxiety, and time sensitivity, So again a

628
00:33:26,000 --> 00:33:30,200
Speaker 3: lot of easier. Where proximity is probably the easiest to define,

629
00:33:30,360 --> 00:33:32,280
Speaker 3: which is how close you are to the deadline if

630
00:33:32,280 --> 00:33:35,000
Speaker 3: there is a deadline. Scrutiny we talked about, which is

631
00:33:35,000 --> 00:33:38,960
Speaker 3: who's paying attention. Anxiety is something that's unspoken and unwritten,

632
00:33:39,160 --> 00:33:42,560
Speaker 3: where how anxious are the people around you to get

633
00:33:42,560 --> 00:33:45,520
Speaker 3: things done. I think of this as if we're driving

634
00:33:45,560 --> 00:33:48,040
Speaker 3: down a freeway and you're in the fast lane, but

635
00:33:48,080 --> 00:33:52,040
Speaker 3: you're driving slowly and everyone's tailgating you. Everyone's anxious you

636
00:33:52,080 --> 00:33:56,600
Speaker 3: aren't you're going too slowly. And then finally, time sensitivity

637
00:33:56,840 --> 00:34:00,400
Speaker 3: is do things get harder as time goes on. I

638
00:34:00,400 --> 00:34:03,400
Speaker 3: think of this as scheduling meetings, for example, where the

639
00:34:03,440 --> 00:34:07,000
Speaker 3: longer you wait, the more people's calendars will fill up.

640
00:34:07,320 --> 00:34:09,800
Speaker 3: And so the faster you get this thing scheduled, the

641
00:34:09,880 --> 00:34:12,640
Speaker 3: sooner you can get that hold, the less anxious people

642
00:34:12,680 --> 00:34:15,320
Speaker 3: will be. And it's important to think about the difference

643
00:34:15,360 --> 00:34:19,080
Speaker 3: between important and urgent, because what often happens is we

644
00:34:19,200 --> 00:34:22,080
Speaker 3: let the urgent crowd out the important. And I have

645
00:34:22,800 --> 00:34:25,600
Speaker 3: a lot of examples of people who said yes to

646
00:34:25,640 --> 00:34:28,360
Speaker 3: everything and felt like they did a lot of work,

647
00:34:28,520 --> 00:34:31,440
Speaker 3: but none of that work ultimately mattered, and so come

648
00:34:31,480 --> 00:34:34,399
Speaker 3: promotion time, they didn't end up having anything to show

649
00:34:34,719 --> 00:34:38,399
Speaker 3: despite them being so swamped with work, and so knowing

650
00:34:38,400 --> 00:34:41,240
Speaker 3: the difference between important and urgent can be the difference

651
00:34:41,280 --> 00:34:45,440
Speaker 3: between you working hard versus smart, or you getting promoted

652
00:34:45,440 --> 00:34:46,080
Speaker 3: and not promoted.

653
00:34:46,200 --> 00:34:48,279
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's like getting all the stuff crossed off your

654
00:34:48,360 --> 00:34:51,640
Speaker 2: to do list, but maybe most of the things that

655
00:34:51,680 --> 00:34:54,200
Speaker 2: you were able to accomplish, it didn't really matter to

656
00:34:54,640 --> 00:34:57,839
Speaker 2: the people who are right above you or to your

657
00:34:57,880 --> 00:35:01,480
Speaker 2: boss's boss. It's getting those those are the important things

658
00:35:01,600 --> 00:35:03,400
Speaker 2: you're going to want to be able to show to

659
00:35:03,560 --> 00:35:06,080
Speaker 2: your superiors, right, to show that you're actually effective as

660
00:35:06,120 --> 00:35:08,520
Speaker 2: opposed to just someone who can accomplish tasks.

661
00:35:08,760 --> 00:35:11,560
Speaker 3: Oh for sure. Yeah, it's coming back to the idea

662
00:35:11,560 --> 00:35:14,160
Speaker 3: of being proactive. I mean, you don't want to be

663
00:35:14,239 --> 00:35:16,640
Speaker 3: that rock that has to be kicked constantly where someone

664
00:35:16,719 --> 00:35:18,400
Speaker 3: kicks you a little bit your roll and then you

665
00:35:18,400 --> 00:35:20,640
Speaker 3: tumble and then there's a thud. That's not the person

666
00:35:20,719 --> 00:35:21,160
Speaker 3: you want to be.

667
00:35:22,640 --> 00:35:24,319
Speaker 1: Kind Of looping back to proactivity, it kind of made

668
00:35:24,320 --> 00:35:26,279
Speaker 1: me think back to some in your book as well.

669
00:35:26,320 --> 00:35:29,880
Speaker 1: You talk about setting expectations and how being proactive a

670
00:35:29,960 --> 00:35:32,680
Speaker 1: lot of times means figuring out what your job is

671
00:35:32,800 --> 00:35:35,560
Speaker 1: figuring out what those expectations are. Can you touch on

672
00:35:35,600 --> 00:35:37,400
Speaker 1: that a little bit? How is that going to impact

673
00:35:37,400 --> 00:35:40,000
Speaker 1: your success at work? Yeah?

674
00:35:40,000 --> 00:35:43,040
Speaker 3: I think of every job as having almost a major

675
00:35:43,080 --> 00:35:46,879
Speaker 3: and a minor, or a main course and a set

676
00:35:46,880 --> 00:35:49,759
Speaker 3: of side dishes in certain whatever analogy or metaphor you

677
00:35:49,800 --> 00:35:54,160
Speaker 3: want here, where we all in our day jobs have

678
00:35:54,160 --> 00:35:57,040
Speaker 3: have to dos and nice to dos. So as I

679
00:35:57,040 --> 00:36:00,040
Speaker 3: think back to centrality, one of these core ten and

680
00:36:00,080 --> 00:36:03,800
Speaker 3: it's to importance if you were hired to do something,

681
00:36:04,000 --> 00:36:06,440
Speaker 3: or if there's a project that if this doesn't get done,

682
00:36:07,200 --> 00:36:09,840
Speaker 3: your head is on the guillotine. That's all of a

683
00:36:09,880 --> 00:36:13,799
Speaker 3: sudden important. And so when you first join a role

684
00:36:13,920 --> 00:36:16,360
Speaker 3: or when you're first approaching a project, that can be

685
00:36:16,400 --> 00:36:19,040
Speaker 3: helpful to think about, Okay, where do I need to

686
00:36:19,040 --> 00:36:21,719
Speaker 3: be perfect because this is really what's going to be scrutinized,

687
00:36:22,760 --> 00:36:25,799
Speaker 3: And where do I only need to be good enough

688
00:36:25,800 --> 00:36:28,760
Speaker 3: where maybe I can cut some corners or not treat

689
00:36:28,760 --> 00:36:31,040
Speaker 3: this so urgently or not spend so much time on

690
00:36:32,280 --> 00:36:36,439
Speaker 3: this and so one of the questions that often gets

691
00:36:36,440 --> 00:36:38,759
Speaker 3: overlooked when you're joining a new team or entering a

692
00:36:38,760 --> 00:36:42,080
Speaker 3: new role is to ask your manager, Hey, what do

693
00:36:42,120 --> 00:36:45,279
Speaker 3: you expect me to have done or accomplished in by

694
00:36:45,320 --> 00:36:47,839
Speaker 3: the end of my first three months or six months

695
00:36:47,920 --> 00:36:52,319
Speaker 3: or a year, or what do you consider high priorities

696
00:36:52,520 --> 00:36:57,799
Speaker 3: and maybe mediocre priorities. I guess people don't generally like

697
00:36:57,840 --> 00:37:00,000
Speaker 3: to think of things as low priorities, so I hesitate

698
00:37:00,080 --> 00:37:02,440
Speaker 3: to maybe drop that in your first conversation with your manager.

699
00:37:03,080 --> 00:37:05,400
Speaker 2: What's the stuff I shouldn't care about at all? Okay,

700
00:37:05,560 --> 00:37:06,359
Speaker 2: let's get real here.

701
00:37:06,880 --> 00:37:09,799
Speaker 3: So I mean, so much of this is around doing

702
00:37:09,840 --> 00:37:12,000
Speaker 3: this hint, hint, nudge nudge of hey, what can I

703
00:37:12,080 --> 00:37:14,879
Speaker 3: kind of cut corners on? Which is going to keep

704
00:37:14,880 --> 00:37:17,600
Speaker 3: you saying. But you have to sort of approach this

705
00:37:17,640 --> 00:37:21,520
Speaker 3: conversation in a polite, politically correct way, which is asking, hey,

706
00:37:21,520 --> 00:37:23,520
Speaker 3: what's top priority? Because I want to make sure I'm

707
00:37:23,520 --> 00:37:25,040
Speaker 3: doing a good job at that exactly.

708
00:37:25,160 --> 00:37:26,880
Speaker 1: Yeah, And that can be difficult when you have a

709
00:37:26,960 --> 00:37:29,719
Speaker 1: job that encompasses a lot of responsibilities and you're looking

710
00:37:29,719 --> 00:37:31,800
Speaker 1: at your job description and you see all these things.

711
00:37:32,080 --> 00:37:34,000
Speaker 1: But what it sounds like you're trying to do here

712
00:37:34,120 --> 00:37:36,640
Speaker 1: is getting your boss or your supervisor to boil it

713
00:37:36,640 --> 00:37:38,480
Speaker 1: all down for you, Like, just like you said, at

714
00:37:38,480 --> 00:37:41,480
Speaker 1: the end of three months, what has to be done,

715
00:37:42,120 --> 00:37:45,040
Speaker 1: what would be nice to have accomplished. I think that's

716
00:37:45,080 --> 00:37:47,239
Speaker 1: all smart. We've got a few more questions that we

717
00:37:47,280 --> 00:37:49,400
Speaker 1: want to ask you here right after the break. I

718
00:37:49,400 --> 00:37:51,120
Speaker 1: feel like so far we've kind of touched on ways

719
00:37:51,160 --> 00:37:54,799
Speaker 1: to get your career kicked off right, and so after

720
00:37:54,800 --> 00:37:56,360
Speaker 1: the break, we're actually we want to ask some questions

721
00:37:56,400 --> 00:37:58,759
Speaker 1: about kind of moving on from a career when it

722
00:37:58,760 --> 00:38:01,400
Speaker 1: comes to looking you know, ARD's the next step in

723
00:38:01,440 --> 00:38:03,600
Speaker 1: your career. So we'll get to all those right after

724
00:38:03,640 --> 00:38:07,840
Speaker 1: this break.

725
00:38:13,360 --> 00:38:15,320
Speaker 2: We're back to the break. We're still talking with gorek

726
00:38:15,480 --> 00:38:19,359
Speaker 2: ing about the unspoken rules of career success, and match

727
00:38:19,440 --> 00:38:21,760
Speaker 2: just hinted to this. We're going to talk about maybe

728
00:38:21,760 --> 00:38:25,400
Speaker 2: moving on from a job you're not so interested in anymore,

729
00:38:25,719 --> 00:38:28,440
Speaker 2: and Gork you said that actually, ideally your next job

730
00:38:28,800 --> 00:38:30,520
Speaker 2: is one that you don't even have to apply for.

731
00:38:30,800 --> 00:38:34,200
Speaker 2: That sounds pretty nice. You talk about positioning yourself so

732
00:38:34,239 --> 00:38:37,480
Speaker 2: that opportunities are flowing to you, how do you actually

733
00:38:37,680 --> 00:38:39,120
Speaker 2: make that happen in reality?

734
00:38:40,280 --> 00:38:43,279
Speaker 3: Yeah, this is one of the more important concepts because

735
00:38:43,320 --> 00:38:46,640
Speaker 3: it's really speaking to not just putting your head down,

736
00:38:46,840 --> 00:38:50,880
Speaker 3: but being strategic about maneuvering your way from where you

737
00:38:50,960 --> 00:38:53,640
Speaker 3: are to where you want to go. And I'll illustrate

738
00:38:53,719 --> 00:38:56,520
Speaker 3: with an example that unfortunately didn't make it into the book,

739
00:38:56,560 --> 00:38:59,960
Speaker 3: but it's of a late twenty something who had zero

740
00:39:00,080 --> 00:39:04,120
Speaker 3: acting experience, had zero experience in Hollywood, but wanted to

741
00:39:04,160 --> 00:39:08,080
Speaker 3: break into the entertainment scene and his journey actually lasted

742
00:39:08,120 --> 00:39:11,480
Speaker 3: five years. So he also had patients in addition to

743
00:39:11,520 --> 00:39:16,720
Speaker 3: the three c's, where he was working as a business

744
00:39:16,719 --> 00:39:21,319
Speaker 3: analyst unrelated at all to the entertainment field. But what

745
00:39:21,400 --> 00:39:25,480
Speaker 3: he did was he went to entertainment conferences and strategically

746
00:39:25,520 --> 00:39:28,960
Speaker 3: sat beside the people that he wanted to meet. He

747
00:39:29,040 --> 00:39:33,839
Speaker 3: would introduce himself and strike up a conversation with those

748
00:39:33,880 --> 00:39:37,400
Speaker 3: who matter. He'd get their business cards or their emails

749
00:39:37,400 --> 00:39:41,239
Speaker 3: and send a thank you email. He'd follow up with

750
00:39:41,280 --> 00:39:46,879
Speaker 3: them with life updates. He'd pass on opportunities that these

751
00:39:46,880 --> 00:39:51,600
Speaker 3: individuals may be interested in. He dug through his university

752
00:39:51,600 --> 00:39:54,560
Speaker 3: and even his high school yearbook in search of people

753
00:39:54,640 --> 00:39:58,239
Speaker 3: who were even remotely connected to the entertainment scene. In

754
00:39:58,360 --> 00:40:01,640
Speaker 3: La and then finally he he just cold emailed like mad,

755
00:40:02,400 --> 00:40:07,640
Speaker 3: and over the course of just putting himself out there

756
00:40:07,640 --> 00:40:09,760
Speaker 3: in all these different ways and making it a habit,

757
00:40:10,280 --> 00:40:13,279
Speaker 3: he ended up meeting someone who five years later ended

758
00:40:13,360 --> 00:40:15,560
Speaker 3: up reaching out to him and saying, Hey, what are

759
00:40:15,600 --> 00:40:19,239
Speaker 3: you looking for? And actually, as nicely ties back to

760
00:40:19,280 --> 00:40:22,560
Speaker 3: our earlier conversation about the hero's journey, because when this

761
00:40:22,600 --> 00:40:25,399
Speaker 3: person reached out and asked what are you looking for,

762
00:40:26,280 --> 00:40:29,759
Speaker 3: they're asking for your hero's journey. Yeah, And this person

763
00:40:29,880 --> 00:40:32,520
Speaker 3: ended up saying, well, I've done this and this this

764
00:40:32,560 --> 00:40:34,880
Speaker 3: is where I'd like to go. The person who reached

765
00:40:34,880 --> 00:40:37,879
Speaker 3: out ended up saying, actually, this is exactly the role

766
00:40:37,880 --> 00:40:41,080
Speaker 3: that I'm looking to hire for. Let me forge your

767
00:40:41,120 --> 00:40:42,160
Speaker 3: resume over to HR.

768
00:40:42,520 --> 00:40:43,080
Speaker 1: That's awesome.

769
00:40:43,160 --> 00:40:44,879
Speaker 2: That's so much better than what I would have done.

770
00:40:44,920 --> 00:40:47,240
Speaker 2: I would have just like looked up like Kate Blanchett

771
00:40:47,239 --> 00:40:48,800
Speaker 2: and Brad pitt On LinkedIn and I would have like

772
00:40:48,880 --> 00:40:50,440
Speaker 2: tried to try to friend him there.

773
00:40:50,520 --> 00:40:52,440
Speaker 3: But I'm sure he may have done that as well.

774
00:40:52,560 --> 00:40:55,600
Speaker 1: Okay, okay, go one of the movie star home doors,

775
00:40:55,880 --> 00:40:56,920
Speaker 1: Like I'll get out here.

776
00:40:57,520 --> 00:40:59,240
Speaker 2: I started yelling from out in front of the fence.

777
00:41:00,000 --> 00:41:01,560
Speaker 1: Well, Greg. You know, you kind of mentioned going to

778
00:41:01,560 --> 00:41:04,600
Speaker 1: these different conferences sitting down next to the people who

779
00:41:04,640 --> 00:41:07,120
Speaker 1: you're hoping to get to know. That sort of sounds

780
00:41:07,160 --> 00:41:10,000
Speaker 1: like finding a mentor to a certain extent, right, because

781
00:41:10,040 --> 00:41:11,759
Speaker 1: if you can, you know, if you hit it off

782
00:41:11,840 --> 00:41:14,360
Speaker 1: and they like you and it's a conversation you can continue,

783
00:41:14,360 --> 00:41:17,320
Speaker 1: if that's an email chain that continues for a while,

784
00:41:17,640 --> 00:41:19,920
Speaker 1: that can be somebody who can mentor you. And so

785
00:41:20,000 --> 00:41:22,239
Speaker 1: how important do you think that is? And you know,

786
00:41:22,280 --> 00:41:24,200
Speaker 1: this is one small example of what a mentor might

787
00:41:24,200 --> 00:41:26,719
Speaker 1: look like, and so I'm interested to hear just maybe

788
00:41:26,760 --> 00:41:28,719
Speaker 1: some other examples too, But how important is it? And

789
00:41:29,040 --> 00:41:31,840
Speaker 1: how do you find the right mentor for you? And

790
00:41:31,880 --> 00:41:34,960
Speaker 1: then actually make that connection? Say it's an industry where

791
00:41:35,000 --> 00:41:37,640
Speaker 1: you aren't able to sit down next to that person

792
00:41:37,880 --> 00:41:40,480
Speaker 1: you know at a conference, how do you reach out

793
00:41:40,560 --> 00:41:41,800
Speaker 1: beyond your current network?

794
00:41:42,480 --> 00:41:46,640
Speaker 3: And I think the first thing actually is to define

795
00:41:47,400 --> 00:41:52,279
Speaker 3: mentor in a less scary way. Where when I was

796
00:41:52,560 --> 00:41:55,480
Speaker 3: first introduced the to the to the term and the

797
00:41:55,520 --> 00:41:57,919
Speaker 3: concept of a mentor, I thought, wow, like I don't

798
00:41:57,920 --> 00:42:02,040
Speaker 3: know anyone in high places. But when I redefine mentor

799
00:42:02,400 --> 00:42:07,200
Speaker 3: not as some hot shot person who's high up and

800
00:42:07,280 --> 00:42:11,880
Speaker 3: therefore inaccessible. If I instead define mentor as someone who

801
00:42:12,480 --> 00:42:16,799
Speaker 3: knows something you don't know, or someone who can help

802
00:42:16,840 --> 00:42:18,920
Speaker 3: you figure out what you don't know, you don't know

803
00:42:19,000 --> 00:42:22,120
Speaker 3: but should know, I start realizing that actually a mentor

804
00:42:22,160 --> 00:42:25,880
Speaker 3: could be anybody. My classmates are mentors, my friends are mentors,

805
00:42:25,920 --> 00:42:30,680
Speaker 3: family members are mentors. And what it takes to find

806
00:42:30,760 --> 00:42:35,520
Speaker 3: these mentors and to nurture these relationships it involves what

807
00:42:35,600 --> 00:42:38,600
Speaker 3: I call climbing the relationship ladder, where if you imagine

808
00:42:38,640 --> 00:42:42,759
Speaker 3: a ladder with different rungs, at the very bottom are strangers,

809
00:42:42,840 --> 00:42:45,000
Speaker 3: and just by definition, most people in the world are

810
00:42:45,000 --> 00:42:48,040
Speaker 3: going to be strangers to you. But over the course

811
00:42:48,080 --> 00:42:53,479
Speaker 3: of recognizing bids and embracing bids, you can turn someone

812
00:42:53,520 --> 00:42:57,479
Speaker 3: who's otherwise a stranger into an acquaintance. And maybe that's

813
00:42:57,640 --> 00:42:59,640
Speaker 3: a matter of opening the door for someone, or holding

814
00:42:59,680 --> 00:43:05,240
Speaker 3: the door open, or thanking someone who delivered an especially

815
00:43:05,280 --> 00:43:08,480
Speaker 3: good presentation, or asking a question at an event and

816
00:43:08,600 --> 00:43:11,960
Speaker 3: following up or sending a thank you email, or just

817
00:43:12,000 --> 00:43:16,839
Speaker 3: simply dming someone over Teams or Zoom or any other

818
00:43:17,040 --> 00:43:19,399
Speaker 3: video chat platform that we may be using during our

819
00:43:19,400 --> 00:43:23,640
Speaker 3: work from home days. All of these microactions are actually

820
00:43:23,640 --> 00:43:27,560
Speaker 3: elevating someone from stranger status to acquaintance status, and then

821
00:43:27,600 --> 00:43:30,920
Speaker 3: from acquaintance status you can then follow up and have

822
00:43:31,000 --> 00:43:33,279
Speaker 3: maybe a one on one conversation, in which case they

823
00:43:33,320 --> 00:43:36,160
Speaker 3: become your allies where you're looking out for them and

824
00:43:36,200 --> 00:43:39,200
Speaker 3: they're looking out for you. And over the course of

825
00:43:39,280 --> 00:43:41,720
Speaker 3: nurturing those relationships, you may have a couple of people

826
00:43:41,800 --> 00:43:45,680
Speaker 3: who you may end up having deeper conversations with. These

827
00:43:45,719 --> 00:43:50,120
Speaker 3: become your mentors. And then finally, if you're looking up

828
00:43:50,239 --> 00:43:53,080
Speaker 3: the chain of command in your organization, there are people

829
00:43:53,080 --> 00:43:55,880
Speaker 3: who are called sponsors, who are people who are a

830
00:43:55,880 --> 00:43:58,080
Speaker 3: part of those promotion committees, who really are high up

831
00:43:58,120 --> 00:44:02,080
Speaker 3: in your organization and who can bang the table and say, hey,

832
00:44:02,440 --> 00:44:05,600
Speaker 3: we need to absolutely give this opportunity to Joel and Matt.

833
00:44:05,640 --> 00:44:08,120
Speaker 3: I would trust them with my life, and what it

834
00:44:08,160 --> 00:44:11,479
Speaker 3: takes to get these people up isn't to just throw

835
00:44:11,520 --> 00:44:13,440
Speaker 3: them up there. I think these are maybe the people

836
00:44:13,480 --> 00:44:17,120
Speaker 3: that give networking a bad name, people who meet you

837
00:44:17,160 --> 00:44:20,160
Speaker 3: for the first time and are maybe overly transactional, but

838
00:44:20,320 --> 00:44:23,600
Speaker 3: who bring you up this relationship ladder, one rung at

839
00:44:23,640 --> 00:44:26,200
Speaker 3: a time. So I think it actually nicely brings us

840
00:44:26,200 --> 00:44:29,280
Speaker 3: back full circle to where we began, which is finding

841
00:44:29,280 --> 00:44:32,520
Speaker 3: these hidden opportunities to turn people who are otherwise strangers

842
00:44:32,560 --> 00:44:37,600
Speaker 3: into acquaintances, following up, sending thank you emails, digging through databases,

843
00:44:38,040 --> 00:44:40,200
Speaker 3: and doing all of these all the time as a habit.

844
00:44:40,640 --> 00:44:40,799
Speaker 1: Yeah.

845
00:44:40,840 --> 00:44:42,799
Speaker 2: I like that, And I like too the way you

846
00:44:43,000 --> 00:44:45,200
Speaker 2: kind of talk about mentorship and how you can have

847
00:44:45,280 --> 00:44:48,440
Speaker 2: like a few different mentors. It doesn't have to be sometimes.

848
00:44:48,480 --> 00:44:50,279
Speaker 2: I guess growing up, I always felt like asking someone

849
00:44:50,320 --> 00:44:51,799
Speaker 2: to be your mentor was like asking them to be

850
00:44:51,960 --> 00:44:54,120
Speaker 2: a third parent to you or something like that. And

851
00:44:54,160 --> 00:44:57,200
Speaker 2: it feels like this big ask. And I could see

852
00:44:57,320 --> 00:44:58,839
Speaker 2: if someone came up with me it was like, will

853
00:44:58,840 --> 00:45:01,120
Speaker 2: you be my mentor? But I would just be freaked

854
00:45:01,160 --> 00:45:02,520
Speaker 2: out a little bit. And I think that there's like

855
00:45:02,520 --> 00:45:05,759
Speaker 2: a soft way of kind of finding someone who can

856
00:45:05,800 --> 00:45:10,560
Speaker 2: help mentor you without it being this uber formal relationship

857
00:45:10,600 --> 00:45:13,080
Speaker 2: that maybe a lot of people might not want to

858
00:45:13,120 --> 00:45:16,200
Speaker 2: partake in. I want to ask you to gorek about,

859
00:45:16,200 --> 00:45:19,120
Speaker 2: like right now, what's happening kind of in the workplace

860
00:45:19,120 --> 00:45:22,000
Speaker 2: has been called the Great Resignation. A lot of people

861
00:45:22,040 --> 00:45:25,160
Speaker 2: ready to move on to a new job. So when

862
00:45:25,200 --> 00:45:27,920
Speaker 2: it comes to leaving, though, there's a right way and

863
00:45:27,960 --> 00:45:30,520
Speaker 2: a wrong way to leave. So how would you recommend

864
00:45:30,520 --> 00:45:32,799
Speaker 2: someone who is thinking about, you know, moving on just

865
00:45:33,080 --> 00:45:35,719
Speaker 2: to another competitor in the same space that they're in,

866
00:45:35,840 --> 00:45:38,520
Speaker 2: or moving on to a completely different industry, or going

867
00:45:38,560 --> 00:45:41,160
Speaker 2: to work for themselves, Like, however they depart, how can

868
00:45:41,200 --> 00:45:42,279
Speaker 2: they leave graciously?

869
00:45:43,920 --> 00:45:46,480
Speaker 3: I think of this as a bit of a litmus

870
00:45:46,520 --> 00:45:50,680
Speaker 3: test or three criteria that I would encourage folks to

871
00:45:51,000 --> 00:45:56,240
Speaker 3: think about, where A you want to leave your team

872
00:45:56,719 --> 00:46:02,080
Speaker 3: not feeling blindsided. Be you want to leave your team

873
00:46:02,320 --> 00:46:04,120
Speaker 3: in a position where they can keep the show running

874
00:46:04,160 --> 00:46:07,439
Speaker 3: without you, and see you want to leave the team

875
00:46:07,840 --> 00:46:09,799
Speaker 3: in a position where they've got line of sight to

876
00:46:09,800 --> 00:46:13,440
Speaker 3: a successor who can fill your role. And it's a

877
00:46:13,480 --> 00:46:15,320
Speaker 3: bit of a tall order to achieve all three. And

878
00:46:15,360 --> 00:46:19,120
Speaker 3: I realize that all three may not be attainable all

879
00:46:19,160 --> 00:46:23,400
Speaker 3: the time. But I'd also say that number one is

880
00:46:23,440 --> 00:46:25,719
Speaker 3: more important than number two, which is more important than

881
00:46:25,760 --> 00:46:28,719
Speaker 3: number three. Where the most important thing is to not

882
00:46:29,160 --> 00:46:33,160
Speaker 3: leave your folks blindsided. Second most important is to make

883
00:46:33,200 --> 00:46:36,319
Speaker 3: sure that there's continuity, that things aren't just gonna fall

884
00:46:36,360 --> 00:46:40,120
Speaker 3: the pieces with you absent. And then three is if

885
00:46:40,880 --> 00:46:44,200
Speaker 3: you can maybe even help find someone who can take

886
00:46:44,239 --> 00:46:46,439
Speaker 3: on your role in the future. It all depends on

887
00:46:46,840 --> 00:46:50,760
Speaker 3: the extent of the relationship that you'd want to maintain,

888
00:46:50,920 --> 00:46:53,799
Speaker 3: the reputation that you want to leave behind. Where if

889
00:46:53,840 --> 00:46:56,759
Speaker 3: you want to not only not burn the bridge, but

890
00:46:56,960 --> 00:47:02,960
Speaker 3: leave that bridge smelling like flowers, do all three. If

891
00:47:03,000 --> 00:47:06,040
Speaker 3: it's a normal situation, do one and two. And if

892
00:47:06,040 --> 00:47:08,600
Speaker 3: you want to leave amicably, which I suspect many of

893
00:47:08,680 --> 00:47:13,319
Speaker 3: us do because reputation is so important, then make sure

894
00:47:13,320 --> 00:47:15,880
Speaker 3: that you're at least not leaving people blindsided.

895
00:47:15,520 --> 00:47:18,160
Speaker 1: Right, Yeah, you know, at the very least do number one.

896
00:47:18,800 --> 00:47:21,080
Speaker 1: So how do you do that then, because obviously you

897
00:47:21,120 --> 00:47:24,160
Speaker 1: probably don't want to fore casts. It's like, hey, I'm

898
00:47:24,200 --> 00:47:25,920
Speaker 1: gonna be out of here in six months. That sounds

899
00:47:25,920 --> 00:47:28,000
Speaker 1: like too much time. Yeah, But if you're like, like, no,

900
00:47:28,040 --> 00:47:30,279
Speaker 1: actually you're out of here this Friday. Yeah, But then

901
00:47:30,320 --> 00:47:31,759
Speaker 1: if you go in that morning and you're like, hey,

902
00:47:31,760 --> 00:47:34,560
Speaker 1: this is my last day, and so obviously there's there's

903
00:47:34,560 --> 00:47:37,560
Speaker 1: some place in between. And so from a timeframe standpoint,

904
00:47:37,600 --> 00:47:40,600
Speaker 1: what do you feel like is ideal? And then what

905
00:47:40,640 --> 00:47:43,680
Speaker 1: are the best ways of actually going about making that announcement?

906
00:47:44,800 --> 00:47:47,800
Speaker 3: Yeah, you know, this is a bit of a tricky question.

907
00:47:47,840 --> 00:47:49,719
Speaker 3: Because I know that if you go on to Google,

908
00:47:49,800 --> 00:47:52,040
Speaker 3: people will say, well, it's two weeks. If it's two

909
00:47:52,080 --> 00:47:53,960
Speaker 3: weeks and one day, that's too long. And it's two

910
00:47:53,960 --> 00:47:57,200
Speaker 3: weeks minus one day, it's too short. I actually came

911
00:47:57,280 --> 00:48:00,960
Speaker 3: up with this sort of three pronged litmus test as

912
00:48:01,000 --> 00:48:05,440
Speaker 3: a way of hopefully helping folks think about what it

913
00:48:05,480 --> 00:48:10,200
Speaker 3: means to not surprise your coworkers. For your own individual context,

914
00:48:11,040 --> 00:48:13,520
Speaker 3: it may be two weeks for your coworkers to not

915
00:48:13,520 --> 00:48:17,040
Speaker 3: feel blindsided. It may be a month. I've left jobs

916
00:48:17,040 --> 00:48:20,440
Speaker 3: before where I've actually given that three month notice because

917
00:48:20,480 --> 00:48:22,439
Speaker 3: I knew that my role was one that was hard

918
00:48:22,440 --> 00:48:26,480
Speaker 3: to backfill. So I'm going to give you a bit

919
00:48:26,480 --> 00:48:28,759
Speaker 3: of that cop out answer of saying, make sure you're

920
00:48:29,360 --> 00:48:32,680
Speaker 3: mindful of these three and you will, likely for your

921
00:48:32,680 --> 00:48:35,640
Speaker 3: own circumstances come upon. Is it two weeks, is it

922
00:48:35,680 --> 00:48:37,200
Speaker 3: three weeks? Is it four weeks? Kind of thing?

923
00:48:37,480 --> 00:48:40,360
Speaker 2: Yeah, true, Yeah. In a recent article, Gorerick, you mentioned

924
00:48:40,400 --> 00:48:43,719
Speaker 2: that everyone is the captain of their own career, and

925
00:48:43,760 --> 00:48:45,760
Speaker 2: if you don't make it happen, it's not going to happen.

926
00:48:46,080 --> 00:48:48,719
Speaker 2: And I think that is probably a good way to

927
00:48:48,840 --> 00:48:51,920
Speaker 2: encourage us to take the reins of our own lives

928
00:48:52,040 --> 00:48:55,520
Speaker 2: and of our futures and what it looks like to

929
00:48:55,560 --> 00:48:57,799
Speaker 2: continue to progress, either in the career that we're in

930
00:48:58,000 --> 00:49:01,200
Speaker 2: or to move on to something you know, in the

931
00:49:01,239 --> 00:49:04,640
Speaker 2: near future that we're more excited about. What final advice

932
00:49:04,719 --> 00:49:06,719
Speaker 2: do you have for How to Money listeners when it

933
00:49:06,719 --> 00:49:09,680
Speaker 2: comes to steering their career towards success.

934
00:49:10,280 --> 00:49:14,200
Speaker 3: Mm, well, given that this is the how to Money

935
00:49:14,719 --> 00:49:21,479
Speaker 3: podcast that's us, I'll frame this perhaps around capital, where

936
00:49:21,560 --> 00:49:24,080
Speaker 3: I know in a number of prior episodes you talk

937
00:49:24,120 --> 00:49:28,400
Speaker 3: about the trade off between time and money as always

938
00:49:28,000 --> 00:49:32,319
Speaker 3: as two forms of capital or currency. As I think

939
00:49:32,320 --> 00:49:35,279
Speaker 3: about capital, I think of it as things that we

940
00:49:35,360 --> 00:49:38,600
Speaker 3: can spend and accumulate, maybe not time, although maybe you

941
00:49:38,640 --> 00:49:40,400
Speaker 3: can save a bit of time. We have a finite

942
00:49:40,400 --> 00:49:43,960
Speaker 3: amount of time. When I start thinking about capital and

943
00:49:44,000 --> 00:49:47,360
Speaker 3: the context of our careers, I start thinking about how

944
00:49:47,640 --> 00:49:51,200
Speaker 3: there are really three additional forms of capital. One is

945
00:49:51,480 --> 00:49:54,040
Speaker 3: human capital, which is what you know and can do.

946
00:49:55,040 --> 00:49:58,600
Speaker 3: The second is social capital, which is who you know.

947
00:49:59,480 --> 00:50:02,640
Speaker 3: And then the final one is reputational capital, which is

948
00:50:02,880 --> 00:50:05,600
Speaker 3: who knows you and what they know you for. And

949
00:50:05,680 --> 00:50:07,799
Speaker 3: when I think about our careers, it's really a matter

950
00:50:07,880 --> 00:50:11,600
Speaker 3: of playing your cards well across these five forms of

951
00:50:11,600 --> 00:50:16,479
Speaker 3: capital and making sure that you're making the right trade

952
00:50:16,520 --> 00:50:19,920
Speaker 3: offs where maybe it's not all about the money and

953
00:50:19,960 --> 00:50:22,680
Speaker 3: it's about the human capital, the learning that you'll get.

954
00:50:23,040 --> 00:50:26,400
Speaker 3: Maybe it's about signing up for this project so you

955
00:50:26,440 --> 00:50:29,160
Speaker 3: can meet more people. Maybe it's about building a good

956
00:50:29,200 --> 00:50:32,480
Speaker 3: reputation so that you can use this opportunity as a

957
00:50:32,520 --> 00:50:35,920
Speaker 3: stepping stone to that next opportunity. So being mindful of

958
00:50:36,719 --> 00:50:41,479
Speaker 3: how you're pulling these levers can hopefully help folks better

959
00:50:41,560 --> 00:50:43,320
Speaker 3: navigate these unfamiliar situations.

960
00:50:43,840 --> 00:50:46,279
Speaker 1: That is great advice and makes sense because there are

961
00:50:46,280 --> 00:50:48,120
Speaker 1: going to be I mean, we should probably be paying

962
00:50:48,120 --> 00:50:50,239
Speaker 1: attention to all of them, but I think there are

963
00:50:50,280 --> 00:50:53,120
Speaker 1: certain forms of capital here that you mentioned that are

964
00:50:53,160 --> 00:50:55,920
Speaker 1: going to be more important to us as individuals. There

965
00:50:56,000 --> 00:50:58,760
Speaker 1: might be these different areas that we want to pursue

966
00:50:59,200 --> 00:51:01,680
Speaker 1: more than others because they just mean more to us,

967
00:51:01,840 --> 00:51:03,359
Speaker 1: and so I think kind of starting with that end

968
00:51:03,360 --> 00:51:05,759
Speaker 1: in mind can definitely inform the decisions that we make

969
00:51:05,800 --> 00:51:08,359
Speaker 1: as we advance through our careers. Gorick, this has been

970
00:51:08,640 --> 00:51:12,320
Speaker 1: a really insightful conversation. Where can can folks go to

971
00:51:12,400 --> 00:51:14,400
Speaker 1: learn more about you? As well as what else you

972
00:51:14,400 --> 00:51:14,920
Speaker 1: have going on.

973
00:51:15,320 --> 00:51:17,120
Speaker 3: Yeah, the best way to stay in touch is through

974
00:51:17,160 --> 00:51:21,760
Speaker 3: my website. It's Goreic dot com. That's g o Rick

975
00:51:22,200 --> 00:51:25,120
Speaker 3: dot com. I'm on the different social media platforms which

976
00:51:25,120 --> 00:51:30,320
Speaker 3: you'll see on my website, whether it's Twitter, Instagram, TikTok,

977
00:51:30,360 --> 00:51:33,560
Speaker 3: even and especially LinkedIn. So feel free to reach out

978
00:51:33,600 --> 00:51:35,759
Speaker 3: and I would love to stay in touch. This is

979
00:51:35,760 --> 00:51:37,239
Speaker 3: actually a bid, by the way, this is a bid

980
00:51:37,280 --> 00:51:40,239
Speaker 3: to your audience that I see who reaching out, who

981
00:51:40,280 --> 00:51:42,200
Speaker 3: takes advantage exactly.

982
00:51:42,800 --> 00:51:45,080
Speaker 2: Awesome, Gorey, Well, hey, thanks so much for joining us

983
00:51:45,080 --> 00:51:46,439
Speaker 2: on the show. This is a lot of fun.

984
00:51:46,719 --> 00:51:49,200
Speaker 3: Thank you so much. This is an amazing time. Thank

985
00:51:49,200 --> 00:51:50,680
Speaker 3: you all right, Joe, what.

986
00:51:50,680 --> 00:51:54,040
Speaker 1: A very insightful conversation. I feel like we just had

987
00:51:54,040 --> 00:51:56,080
Speaker 1: here at Gorek. I feel like his book it's a

988
00:51:56,120 --> 00:51:59,400
Speaker 1: book telling you how to do everything but your job, right, Like,

989
00:51:59,640 --> 00:52:02,400
Speaker 1: we all have different professions, and we all were essentially

990
00:52:02,480 --> 00:52:05,120
Speaker 1: hired for one specific task or maybe a couple tasks

991
00:52:05,239 --> 00:52:07,680
Speaker 1: related to the one job that you're supposed to do.

992
00:52:08,000 --> 00:52:10,399
Speaker 1: But Gowork's book is just all about all the other

993
00:52:10,440 --> 00:52:12,520
Speaker 1: things that we have to do in addition to that

994
00:52:12,560 --> 00:52:15,040
Speaker 1: one task to make sure that we're successful, to make

995
00:52:15,040 --> 00:52:17,000
Speaker 1: sure that we're compatible with those around us.

996
00:52:17,080 --> 00:52:19,360
Speaker 2: Yeah, and I feel like it's a lot of his advice,

997
00:52:19,480 --> 00:52:21,759
Speaker 2: Like he said, he drew some from marriage advice and

998
00:52:21,800 --> 00:52:24,120
Speaker 2: what it looks like to be, you know, a good

999
00:52:24,200 --> 00:52:26,920
Speaker 2: coworker in the workplace, and so I think some of

1000
00:52:26,920 --> 00:52:30,799
Speaker 2: the advice he gives is eminently applicable to the work

1001
00:52:30,800 --> 00:52:32,560
Speaker 2: you're doing and how to do it well, but it's

1002
00:52:32,560 --> 00:52:35,440
Speaker 2: also applicable to I don't know, being a better human being,

1003
00:52:35,480 --> 00:52:38,120
Speaker 2: communicating better with the people that you know live under

1004
00:52:38,160 --> 00:52:40,920
Speaker 2: the same roof with, or family members who you know

1005
00:52:41,000 --> 00:52:41,880
Speaker 2: live a ways away.

1006
00:52:41,960 --> 00:52:43,759
Speaker 1: Like it's just, yeah, it's a really good book with

1007
00:52:43,840 --> 00:52:46,000
Speaker 1: a lot of helpful stuff, but yeah, what was your

1008
00:52:46,040 --> 00:52:48,160
Speaker 1: big takeaway from that combo? So I liked how he

1009
00:52:48,239 --> 00:52:52,080
Speaker 1: redefined what a mentor is because essentially it seems like

1010
00:52:52,080 --> 00:52:56,440
Speaker 1: this very daunting, intimidating word. Oh sort of like you said,

1011
00:52:56,560 --> 00:52:58,600
Speaker 1: you know, like will you be my mentor? It's like, oh, man,

1012
00:52:59,040 --> 00:53:00,400
Speaker 1: I'm freaking out over here, or like I don't know

1013
00:53:00,400 --> 00:53:02,480
Speaker 1: if I'm ready for that kind of responsibility. Right, I've

1014
00:53:02,480 --> 00:53:04,240
Speaker 1: already got three kids. I don't even know the one

1015
00:53:04,520 --> 00:53:06,239
Speaker 1: or like before you had kids are just like oh,

1016
00:53:06,360 --> 00:53:08,799
Speaker 1: I'm only twenty eight, so like, I'm not ready for

1017
00:53:08,840 --> 00:53:11,520
Speaker 1: this right, this kind of commitment. But I love how

1018
00:53:11,560 --> 00:53:13,200
Speaker 1: he defined it, which is it can be as simple

1019
00:53:13,239 --> 00:53:16,680
Speaker 1: as finding somebody who is one step down further down

1020
00:53:16,719 --> 00:53:18,480
Speaker 1: the path than you are. It can be somebody who

1021
00:53:18,520 --> 00:53:21,719
Speaker 1: just knows one more thing than you do, and they

1022
00:53:21,719 --> 00:53:24,200
Speaker 1: could be a mentor. To me, that doesn't sound like

1023
00:53:24,239 --> 00:53:26,360
Speaker 1: a mentor, but maybe what that means is we should

1024
00:53:26,360 --> 00:53:29,400
Speaker 1: just completely get rid of that term, because I'm afraid

1025
00:53:29,440 --> 00:53:32,040
Speaker 1: that that's keeping people from reaching out to people and

1026
00:53:32,080 --> 00:53:35,440
Speaker 1: thinking about those relationships in that way. It doesn't have

1027
00:53:35,520 --> 00:53:39,440
Speaker 1: to be this Obi wan Anakin Skywalker relationship where you're

1028
00:53:39,440 --> 00:53:42,560
Speaker 1: passing the skills down from you know, a mature Jedi

1029
00:53:42,680 --> 00:53:45,520
Speaker 1: night down to like a kid in training, will you

1030
00:53:45,560 --> 00:53:49,960
Speaker 1: be my Yoda? But yeah, I just found that specifically

1031
00:53:50,040 --> 00:53:53,040
Speaker 1: really helpful, the way he redefined what a mentor could

1032
00:53:53,080 --> 00:53:53,680
Speaker 1: be in your life.

1033
00:53:53,800 --> 00:53:54,640
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, that was good.

1034
00:53:54,719 --> 00:53:56,520
Speaker 1: Yeah. So how about you? What was your big takeaway

1035
00:53:56,520 --> 00:53:57,120
Speaker 1: from this convo?

1036
00:53:57,239 --> 00:53:59,080
Speaker 2: Okay, I think one of the biggest things that stood

1037
00:53:59,080 --> 00:54:01,080
Speaker 2: out to me was when he was talking about when

1038
00:54:01,080 --> 00:54:03,520
Speaker 2: you're going to college, you're keeping up and when you

1039
00:54:03,520 --> 00:54:05,840
Speaker 2: get in the workplace, it's all about stepping up. And

1040
00:54:05,880 --> 00:54:08,160
Speaker 2: I can totally identify with that, because if you bring

1041
00:54:08,200 --> 00:54:10,640
Speaker 2: that college mentality in, like I just gotta show up

1042
00:54:10,680 --> 00:54:13,839
Speaker 2: to class on time, turn in my paper by the deadline,

1043
00:54:14,120 --> 00:54:16,600
Speaker 2: you feel like you are just trying to get by

1044
00:54:16,719 --> 00:54:19,880
Speaker 2: and you're trying to hopefully at least keep up that

1045
00:54:19,920 --> 00:54:23,000
Speaker 2: B average or whatever. And you know, in the workplace,

1046
00:54:23,320 --> 00:54:25,160
Speaker 2: there is if you want to get ahead, like if

1047
00:54:25,200 --> 00:54:27,360
Speaker 2: you want to succeed, if you want a promotion, if

1048
00:54:27,400 --> 00:54:29,040
Speaker 2: you want to be able to move up the ladder

1049
00:54:29,200 --> 00:54:32,680
Speaker 2: and hopefully increase your earnings. Which on hot of money, like,

1050
00:54:32,920 --> 00:54:34,960
Speaker 2: we're down with you increasing your earnings. We think that's

1051
00:54:34,960 --> 00:54:37,440
Speaker 2: a good thing. Then there are things that you have

1052
00:54:37,480 --> 00:54:39,239
Speaker 2: to pay attention to and you can't treat it like

1053
00:54:39,239 --> 00:54:42,080
Speaker 2: you did college. You have to be more about stepping up,

1054
00:54:42,080 --> 00:54:44,719
Speaker 2: and that does involve proactivity, right. You're gonna have to

1055
00:54:44,719 --> 00:54:46,960
Speaker 2: work on your communication style, and you're gonna have to

1056
00:54:47,160 --> 00:54:50,160
Speaker 2: think ahead when it comes to what jobs are the

1057
00:54:50,160 --> 00:54:52,640
Speaker 2: most crucial, which ones you need to get done. You

1058
00:54:52,640 --> 00:54:54,759
Speaker 2: even have to change your approach to meetings, which is

1059
00:54:54,800 --> 00:54:57,239
Speaker 2: one of the things he said in this interview. So yeah,

1060
00:54:57,280 --> 00:54:59,120
Speaker 2: I don't know. I think that's a really important distinction

1061
00:54:59,200 --> 00:55:01,759
Speaker 2: to make. If you're still kind of thinking about your

1062
00:55:01,800 --> 00:55:05,080
Speaker 2: work like you did going to college, in all likelihood,

1063
00:55:05,160 --> 00:55:07,080
Speaker 2: you're gonna be kind of stuck, and you're gonna feel

1064
00:55:07,080 --> 00:55:10,640
Speaker 2: stuck after a little while. Yeah, be average, which you

1065
00:55:10,680 --> 00:55:12,520
Speaker 2: said you can't. You can't get into Harvard with a

1066
00:55:12,560 --> 00:55:15,120
Speaker 2: be average. No, no, no, I'm not saying gorek the average.

1067
00:55:15,600 --> 00:55:17,759
Speaker 2: You gotta have a four parts to that than he.

1068
00:55:17,880 --> 00:55:19,640
Speaker 1: Was for everyone out there. But I mean we're kind

1069
00:55:19,640 --> 00:55:21,680
Speaker 1: of joking about just keeping up in school. But even

1070
00:55:21,719 --> 00:55:24,000
Speaker 1: for folks who are in school, if you are able

1071
00:55:24,040 --> 00:55:26,400
Speaker 1: to even at a at an earlier age, to switch

1072
00:55:26,440 --> 00:55:28,920
Speaker 1: that mentality, I think from a keeping up to stepping

1073
00:55:28,960 --> 00:55:31,680
Speaker 1: up mentality. If you're in school and you're stepping up,

1074
00:55:31,760 --> 00:55:34,200
Speaker 1: you're going to be the class president, You're gonna stand

1075
00:55:34,239 --> 00:55:36,160
Speaker 1: out from all of the rest. You're gonna be the

1076
00:55:36,160 --> 00:55:39,680
Speaker 1: one getting the job offers before you've even graduated. Yeah,

1077
00:55:39,680 --> 00:55:42,040
Speaker 1: and that's the kind of situation you want to find

1078
00:55:42,040 --> 00:55:44,200
Speaker 1: yourself in if you're a college graduate. But definitely, like

1079
00:55:44,200 --> 00:55:45,480
Speaker 1: you said, those are the things that you need to

1080
00:55:45,520 --> 00:55:48,920
Speaker 1: do within a professional environment as well. But let's go

1081
00:55:48,920 --> 00:55:50,520
Speaker 1: ahead and get back to the beer that you and

1082
00:55:50,560 --> 00:55:52,640
Speaker 1: I enjoyed on this episode today. You and I both

1083
00:55:52,640 --> 00:55:56,240
Speaker 1: had a Belgian Aloha and this is a Belgian triple

1084
00:55:56,360 --> 00:56:01,200
Speaker 1: with hibiscus, brewed in Lewis Center. Never heard of this brewery.

1085
00:56:01,280 --> 00:56:04,040
Speaker 1: This one was sent to us by Scott's. Thank you

1086
00:56:04,040 --> 00:56:06,160
Speaker 1: so much for donating this one plus another one that

1087
00:56:06,160 --> 00:56:08,600
Speaker 1: we're gonna enjoy here on the podcast. Joe, what were

1088
00:56:08,640 --> 00:56:09,000
Speaker 1: your thoughts?

1089
00:56:09,320 --> 00:56:11,480
Speaker 2: Yeah, man, this one was light and refreshing, and it

1090
00:56:11,520 --> 00:56:13,759
Speaker 2: really did have like a little bit of Belgium and

1091
00:56:13,800 --> 00:56:15,319
Speaker 2: a little bit of Hawaii mixed in.

1092
00:56:15,400 --> 00:56:15,800
Speaker 1: Oh.

1093
00:56:15,840 --> 00:56:17,920
Speaker 2: You know. It had had some of those Belgian notes

1094
00:56:18,280 --> 00:56:21,160
Speaker 2: of a classic triple, some of that like Belgian spice

1095
00:56:21,200 --> 00:56:21,759
Speaker 2: thrown in there.

1096
00:56:21,800 --> 00:56:21,920
Speaker 3: Well.

1097
00:56:21,920 --> 00:56:24,240
Speaker 2: At the same time, the hibiscus gave it a little

1098
00:56:24,239 --> 00:56:26,839
Speaker 2: bit more of a tropical vibe. It was I would

1099
00:56:26,840 --> 00:56:29,880
Speaker 2: say it was refreshing, it was tasty. Yeah, I enjoyed it,

1100
00:56:29,920 --> 00:56:32,080
Speaker 2: and it's not necessarily the kind of beer I normally

1101
00:56:32,080 --> 00:56:34,399
Speaker 2: go for. Belgian triples aren't normally my thing. I think

1102
00:56:34,440 --> 00:56:37,400
Speaker 2: sometimes those Belgian spices are actually a little overwhelming to

1103
00:56:37,400 --> 00:56:39,560
Speaker 2: my palette. But this one was kind of muted, yeah,

1104
00:56:39,600 --> 00:56:40,279
Speaker 2: in that way, So I.

1105
00:56:40,480 --> 00:56:44,400
Speaker 1: Appreciate it because of the hibiscus. I assume those lural

1106
00:56:44,440 --> 00:56:46,640
Speaker 1: notes that the hibiscus was able to bring to this beer.

1107
00:56:46,800 --> 00:56:48,160
Speaker 1: Like when we poured it, I was like, oh, this

1108
00:56:48,239 --> 00:56:50,360
Speaker 1: is a really pretty beer. It was like halfway between

1109
00:56:50,480 --> 00:56:51,440
Speaker 1: like pink and orange.

1110
00:56:51,200 --> 00:56:52,319
Speaker 2: Looked like a rose or something.

1111
00:56:52,719 --> 00:56:54,359
Speaker 1: So on the can it actually says that, it says

1112
00:56:54,400 --> 00:56:58,120
Speaker 1: this is a French slash Belgian ale that's rosy, bubbly

1113
00:56:58,280 --> 00:57:01,160
Speaker 1: and strong on the finish. Totally true. It definitely kind

1114
00:57:01,200 --> 00:57:04,440
Speaker 1: of had those rose vibes going on. I really enjoyed

1115
00:57:04,440 --> 00:57:06,440
Speaker 1: this one, and I agree, yeah, it didn't have those

1116
00:57:06,560 --> 00:57:09,800
Speaker 1: heavy kind of triple clove kind of spices. It was

1117
00:57:09,800 --> 00:57:12,800
Speaker 1: almost more just sort of like a muted Belgian herbally

1118
00:57:12,880 --> 00:57:15,319
Speaker 1: notes that it was able to show up with. But

1119
00:57:15,600 --> 00:57:17,920
Speaker 1: either way, we really enjoyed this one, and Scott, thank

1120
00:57:17,960 --> 00:57:20,160
Speaker 1: you again for sending this one for us to enjoy

1121
00:57:20,240 --> 00:57:21,400
Speaker 1: on the podcast.

1122
00:57:21,000 --> 00:57:22,240
Speaker 2: No doubt. All right, Well that's going to do it

1123
00:57:22,280 --> 00:57:25,080
Speaker 2: for this episode. Folks who want show notes and links

1124
00:57:25,120 --> 00:57:27,560
Speaker 2: to go Rick's book and his website. You can go

1125
00:57:27,560 --> 00:57:29,720
Speaker 2: to our website at howtomoney dot com. That's right, and

1126
00:57:29,800 --> 00:57:30,600
Speaker 2: so that's gonna be it.

1127
00:57:30,680 --> 00:57:34,520
Speaker 1: Dude. Until next time, Best friends out, best friends out,