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Speaker 1: Too Much Information is a production of I Heart Radio.

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Speaker 1: Hello everyone, and welcome to Too Much Information, the show

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Speaker 1: that brings you the secret histories and little known, fascinating

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Speaker 1: facts and figures behind your favorite movies, music, TV shows,

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Speaker 1: and more. We are your two burnouts of banality, your

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Speaker 1: geeks of good natured nursery, your freaks of facts. I'm

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Speaker 1: Alex Hegel and I'm Jordan Runtock. I try not to

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Speaker 1: read ahead to see what you're gonna say. See where

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Speaker 1: I'm going with? Yeah, today, Jordan, we are talking about

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Speaker 1: one of the most cultishly beloved shows around the turn

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Speaker 1: of the century, which still feels weird every time I

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Speaker 1: say it, but I'm going to keep doing it. The

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Speaker 1: eighteen episodes that launched a thousand ships and inspired countless

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Speaker 1: air drumming sessions. That's right, we're talking about freaks and geeks.

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Speaker 1: I have very dim memories of watching this show when

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Speaker 1: it was airing, but apparently I might have Mandela affected it,

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Speaker 1: considering it was on for like two concern keetive weeks

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Speaker 1: and then just moved around constantly. But I remember watching it.

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Speaker 1: I might might have confused it with one years though,

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Speaker 1: but yeah, I really only caught up with it long

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Speaker 1: after it was done, and I don't know. I was

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Speaker 1: a little bit between freaking a geek in high school,

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Speaker 1: I was. I was. I hung out with the dirty

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Speaker 1: punk rock kids and played punk rock. But I was

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Speaker 1: also in a competition entering and winning jazz band. I was. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: And I was also in Shakespeare Club, so that I

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Speaker 1: played king there and one of the weird sisters. Uh um.

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Speaker 1: But I wondered when we pitched this if because this

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Speaker 1: was happening at the tail end of the seventies, it

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Speaker 1: was going to fall outside of your wheelhouse. You're absolutely right. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: you know. This was something that I never watched, and

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Speaker 1: I deeply regret it. I never watched any of it.

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Speaker 1: He loved it, Yeah, you know. I mean, here's what happens.

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Speaker 1: This has been recommended to me so many times over

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Speaker 1: the years, I think even when it was on, because

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Speaker 1: I loved Wonder years as a kid, and I do

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Speaker 1: this thing when too many people recommend something to me

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Speaker 1: that I just add of some mix of rebellion and no,

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Speaker 1: I'm not. You don't know me, and I've missed out

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Speaker 1: on so many great things over the years, and this

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Speaker 1: was one of them. But you're right. Partially is I

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Speaker 1: think maybe one of my least favorite years in pop

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Speaker 1: culture history. Aesthetically, sonically, it's the year John Lennon was killed.

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Speaker 1: I don't know, it's got a lot of knocks against

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Speaker 1: it for me, just not my thing. So yeah, the

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Speaker 1: show I was always kind of tainted for me for

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Speaker 1: that reason, which is dumb. But also I just kind

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Speaker 1: of got the sense that it was going to be

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Speaker 1: almost more like that seventies show two point Oh. I

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Speaker 1: thought it was gonna be this very broad, gross out,

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Speaker 1: almost fratty style comedy. But you know, in the last

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Speaker 1: week or so, I've caught up on about half the

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Speaker 1: series or so and got the highlights from the rest

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Speaker 1: of the episodes, and I was just blown away by

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Speaker 1: how heartfelt and sweet it was and real it was.

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Speaker 1: I mean, they really were swinging for the Wonder Years

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Speaker 1: territory and this show it just went deep. I mean,

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Speaker 1: in the pilot episode, we learned that the main character, Linda,

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Speaker 1: kind of Lenny's character, Lindsay, was alone with her grandma

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Speaker 1: when she died, and now she's dealing with this crisis

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Speaker 1: of faith, faith in God, faith in the whole, faith

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Speaker 1: in the fundamental goodness of the universe, whatever you wanna

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Speaker 1: call it. This true loss of innocence. And this isn't

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Speaker 1: like you know, Eugene from Greece or Revenge of the Nerds.

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Speaker 1: It's like a lot more nuance and heartfelt than I

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Speaker 1: ever thought, which is you know why it's lived on

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Speaker 1: and continued to resonate with so many Yeah, I mean,

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Speaker 1: heart is really the watchword for this. It's just the

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Speaker 1: one that comes back and back and back. And you know,

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Speaker 1: people throw that around with sitcoms, and there's a lot

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Speaker 1: of things that I don't like, um like Parks and Wreck.

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Speaker 1: It's like sincere and heartfelt, but it's in such a

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Speaker 1: contrived in sitcomy way, whereas the show is really just

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Speaker 1: like here's a bunch of characters you like, and here

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Speaker 1: are the mix the entire spectrum of human experience that

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Speaker 1: they will be subject to. I just think it's so

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Speaker 1: clever from just even in the opening shot of the

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Speaker 1: pilot where they have the attractive football player and his

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Speaker 1: letterman jacket and the beautiful cheerleader having a corny heart

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Speaker 1: to heart like heathcliff On, the more tight moment on

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Speaker 1: the bach just keeps going for the hands right down

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Speaker 1: to these like freaks congregating like ants under a rock

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Speaker 1: under the bleachers, and they're smoking pot and talking about

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Speaker 1: Molly Hatchet. It's just such a clear declaration of what

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Speaker 1: this show was, these stories about kids that you didn't

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Speaker 1: usually see on TV, at least up to that point.

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Speaker 1: You know, usually shows and movies dealt with either geeks

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Speaker 1: in a cartoonish way with tape on their glasses and

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Speaker 1: pocket protectors, or you know, you got Dawson's Creek Syndrome

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Speaker 1: with these gorgeous like early twentysomethings with gray hair and

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Speaker 1: perfect skin that's coming out of coming out of nine

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Speaker 1: two and Home Roast, and and then you got all

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Speaker 1: the weep w B stuff where again everyone is still

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Speaker 1: like a model. Yeah. I mean, I think in real

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Speaker 1: life most of worked, you know in the quote rich jock,

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Speaker 1: popular crowd or the nerd category. We were somewhere in

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Speaker 1: the middle. And you know, I think it's a newcomer

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Speaker 1: to freaks and geeks. Every episode had at least one

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Speaker 1: incident that I connected with on a deeply embarrassing, almost

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Speaker 1: primal personal level. Uh. Down to the pilot, I love

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Speaker 1: that with a scene where at the end of the

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Speaker 1: pilot when the littlest geeks Sam gets to dance with

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Speaker 1: his crush to come sail Away at the school dance

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Speaker 1: and he thinks this this romantic slow dance, and then

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Speaker 1: right when he gets on the dance floor, the rock

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Speaker 1: section starts and he panics because slow dancing is the

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Speaker 1: only kind of dancing that socially awkward people can handle.

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Speaker 1: I speak from experience, and the look at his face

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Speaker 1: is hilarious. It's like he's been betrayed by God. But literally,

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Speaker 1: that same thing happened to me, except it was with

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Speaker 1: Stairway to Heaven. For some reason, the big last dance

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Speaker 1: song at my high school was Stairway to Heaven, and

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Speaker 1: uh yeah, and then when the fast part would start,

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Speaker 1: I wouldn't know what to do. So yeah, but unlike me,

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Speaker 1: the kid on a show actually starts to enjoy himself,

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Speaker 1: and the show's creator Paul fig said of that moment,

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Speaker 1: what seems like not really a victory is actually a victory,

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Speaker 1: and that's what this show is all about. I like that. Yeah, Well,

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Speaker 1: from the deep roster of real life experiences. Judd Apatow

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Speaker 1: drew on to write for the show. To the lengthy

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Speaker 1: battle over the extensive musical playlist that soundtrack it to

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Speaker 1: the perhaps odd. I actually don't know how common this is,

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Speaker 1: but I'm I go ahead and call it odd. The

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Speaker 1: odd lengths that the wardrobe department went through to ensure

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Speaker 1: accuracy for the period clothing. Here is everything you didn't

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Speaker 1: know about Freaks and Geeks. Did you notice that I

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Speaker 1: made all of these headers rush songs? Good? At the

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Speaker 1: heart of Freaks and Geeks is the comic duo pairing

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Speaker 1: I don't know, Yeah, yeah, Judd Apatow and Paul Feig,

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Speaker 1: who met in the l A comedy scene in the

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Speaker 1: mid eighties. As Avatau explained for Vanity Fairs incredible oral

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Speaker 1: history of the show, he met Fig at the Ranch,

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Speaker 1: which was quote, this incredibly cheap house a bunch of

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Speaker 1: comedians rented really deep in the boonies in the San

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Speaker 1: Fernando Valley. It was all these guys who would come

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Speaker 1: out to l A from the Midwest and all they

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Speaker 1: did was smoked cigarettes and watch infomercials. That's amazing. It

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Speaker 1: sounds like members of my extended family, um Fig said.

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Speaker 1: Judd was younger than everyone else. He was really considered

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Speaker 1: to be just a kid. But at the same time,

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Speaker 1: he was booking his own stand up night at some

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Speaker 1: club working for Comic Relief. So by the nineties, Apatow

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Speaker 1: had a development deal at DreamWorks, which seems wild based

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Speaker 1: on what he actually got it on, which was Ben

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Speaker 1: Stiller's show Larry Sanders Show, which are obviously critically beloved things,

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Speaker 1: but it wasn't like he was known as the showrunner

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Speaker 1: for that. And then he had Heavyweights, which was also

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Speaker 1: Paul Figue is in that, and Paul figue was also

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Speaker 1: in something called Ski Patrol I remember thing about and

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Speaker 1: I guess he had also been on Sabrina the Teenage,

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Speaker 1: which is Mr Pool the teacher of the first season

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Speaker 1: means nothing to me, uh, dirty dancing, good sports, so

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Speaker 1: kind of an what you might call him under the

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Speaker 1: radar television career. Ready waits rips. We should tell you

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Speaker 1: that it also has Sean Weiss, the kid from Mighty Ducks,

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Speaker 1: who had a recurring role on Freaking Geeks and as

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Speaker 1: All Things Do, Yes they come Back, had a bit

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Speaker 1: part in My Beloved That thing you do as a DJ.

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Speaker 1: It's like it's such a great little like understated scene

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Speaker 1: in the movie. He's just like this DJ. He's like,

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Speaker 1: all right, everybody. We got the wonders in here, say hi, guys,

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Speaker 1: and they're all just say hi, and then he just

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Speaker 1: plays a song. It's like, all right, guys, thanks for

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Speaker 1: coming on in. Just lets him go like that's all

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Speaker 1: they That's all they needed. Well, in between all of that,

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Speaker 1: or I guess. After all that, he wrote, directed and

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Speaker 1: start in an independent feature called Life, sold separately, but

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Speaker 1: he sunk all of his resources into promoting that didn't

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Speaker 1: really go anywhere, and he'd also lost the Sabrina gig.

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Speaker 1: So he said to Vanity Fair, everything had kind of

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Speaker 1: hit the rocks. I was really at my lowest point.

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Speaker 1: So he pivoted to this long unrealized goal he had

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Speaker 1: of writing about his high school experience. He told Vulture,

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Speaker 1: I told my wife, I want to write a pilot.

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Speaker 1: I have an idea based on when I was in

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Speaker 1: high school. It's about the nerds and the burnouts, and

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Speaker 1: it's called Freaks and Geeks. She high fived me. Uh.

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Speaker 1: And then I wrote it in two weeks and I

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Speaker 1: gave it to my wife and she said, you've got

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Speaker 1: to send this to Judd. Within twelve hours, he said,

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Speaker 1: I love it. I want to do this. I guess,

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Speaker 1: he had kind of an open invitation from Judd Apataw

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Speaker 1: to like send them any any ideas that he was

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Speaker 1: working on. I think Judd specifically said years later, like, yeah,

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Speaker 1: I didn't actually think he would, but when he took

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Speaker 1: him up on it, and Judd loved it. It's worth

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Speaker 1: noting that Fox had recently passed on another of Judd

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Speaker 1: Apata's idea, a pilot called Sick in the Head, which

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Speaker 1: was a sitcom about a rookie psychiatrists first days working

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Speaker 1: in the psych ward and David krum Holtz was cast

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Speaker 1: in the lead and a pre snl Amy Poehler played

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Speaker 1: one of his suicidal patients. Comedy history could have been

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Speaker 1: completely different if that show got picked up. He probably

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Speaker 1: wouldn't have been working on Freaks and Geeks. But Freaks

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Speaker 1: and Geeks was really going in the face of you know,

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Speaker 1: we mentioned the stuff of the episode, all the usual

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Speaker 1: teen shows that were out there, which more often than

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Speaker 1: not focused on the popular kids or how the underdog succeeded.

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Speaker 1: This was basically how the unpopular kids failed but survived anyway,

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Speaker 1: Judd Apatow told The New York Times, Paul was very

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Speaker 1: passionate about the show. Being about kids who failed at

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Speaker 1: the things that they were attempting to do during high school.

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Speaker 1: It was an argument against wish fulfillment television. I love

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Speaker 1: that line. Um Fiegels, who pegged and a sort of

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Speaker 1: unlikely source of inspiration for the show, to the Washington Post.

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Speaker 1: He told them my friend Matt Reeves at the time

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Speaker 1: had just created Felicity with J. J. Abrams, and I

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Speaker 1: saw the pilot, remember thinking that's such a great way

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Speaker 1: to do a show, an hour long show. I'll write

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Speaker 1: a spec pilot with an hour long show just to

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Speaker 1: do something. I came up with the name Freaks and

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Speaker 1: Geeks first. That is a bizarre thing to me to

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Speaker 1: see that Felicity inspired Freaks and Geeks. Yeah, that's pretty weird.

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Speaker 1: He tells the story in one of the zillion oral

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Speaker 1: histories that I read about Freaks and Geeks that he

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Speaker 1: was out on the road doing stand up just to

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Speaker 1: try to bring some money in because all his acting

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Speaker 1: gigs had dried up. And I think he was in

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Speaker 1: wookes Barre, Pennsylvania, and he was he had just started

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Speaker 1: writing the pilot for Freaks and Geeks and he was

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Speaker 1: kind of walking around near the venue before his show,

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Speaker 1: and he saw a group of teenagers and he saw

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Speaker 1: this one girl in it who was like he could

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Speaker 1: kind of tell, like didn't really fit in with all

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Speaker 1: the toughs, but she was like kind of trying to

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Speaker 1: kind of make it in that group. And he just

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Speaker 1: said that he saw her and just was like, Oh,

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Speaker 1: that's the one I want to write about. I want

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Speaker 1: to write about that. That was the Lindsay character. He's

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Speaker 1: he just saw this face just in the crowd, and

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Speaker 1: that kind of became his inspiration for Lynda Carnalini's character

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Speaker 1: m But yeah, one of the things that stuck out

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Speaker 1: about me while watching this show for the first time

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Speaker 1: is that it's so weird that a show like this

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Speaker 1: is an hour long. I mean, usually dramas get the

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Speaker 1: hour long treatment, but I'm hard pressed I think of

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Speaker 1: a show that has as much comedy as Freaksing Geeks

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Speaker 1: that gets the hour long treatment. And they talk about

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Speaker 1: this in the documentary that came out a few years

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Speaker 1: ago on A and E. But yeah, it's basically impossible

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Speaker 1: to understate what a weird show this was for its time.

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Speaker 1: Even the director thought when they watched the pilot back,

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Speaker 1: you know, this is great, but it doesn't really feel

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Speaker 1: like a pilot because they were really very few single

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Speaker 1: camera sitcoms at the time. Again, that was something that

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Speaker 1: was reserved for dramas. Sitcoms were half hour and multi camera.

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Speaker 1: Think of Friends, think of Frasier, think of all those

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Speaker 1: types of shows. Do you want to do a sidebar

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Speaker 1: on single camera versus multi camera? The way I think

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Speaker 1: of single cameras that it basically looks like a movie,

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Speaker 1: whereas multi camera um is I love Lucy style. I

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Speaker 1: think they kind of pioneered it where you've got a

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Speaker 1: bunch of cameras set up on a stage set that

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Speaker 1: looks almost like a a set, and they can film

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Speaker 1: it a lot quicker like that. That's why you can

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Speaker 1: do it in front of a live studio audience is

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Speaker 1: basically taping up play. But single camera is more like

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Speaker 1: doing a movie. And uh yeah, Freaks and Geeks was

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Speaker 1: this strange mix in both in its format and also thematically,

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Speaker 1: and to hear the creators and executives tell it, and

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Speaker 1: obviously this is a gross over simplification. It seems mostly

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Speaker 1: like shows were either these like glamorous shows set in

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Speaker 1: New York or l A. You're you're just shoot Mese,

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Speaker 1: You're suddenly Susan's your Frasier's guess. Frasier was Seattle, but

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Speaker 1: Seattle ends. Yeah, you know, like like these very urban

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Speaker 1: type shows or these teen dramas in these small towns

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Speaker 1: like Dawson's Creek, Charmed Buffet, The Vampire Slayer, Friday Night Lights,

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Speaker 1: those types of shows. Uh, if you squint, Freaks and

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Speaker 1: Geeks was a bit of that seventies show mixed with

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Speaker 1: Malcolm in the Middle, but the new ingredient that they

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Speaker 1: brought was set at the top of the episode heart

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Speaker 1: and the humor in Free and Geeks was behavioral. It

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Speaker 1: wasn't just like a series of setups for jokes, which

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Speaker 1: is kind of the sitcom standard. There's an expression in

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Speaker 1: the industry for sitcoms, at least back then, three jokes

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Speaker 1: a page. I think I remember hearing that in screenwriting

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Speaker 1: school too. The pace of laughs on Freaks and Geeks

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Speaker 1: was a lot slower, which would come back to haunt them.

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Speaker 1: That's why the character movements are also strong, because everything

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Speaker 1: has such time to breathe, you know. It's not just like, bro,

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Speaker 1: I'm up here, sweat might you know, like pounding the

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Speaker 1: floorboards kind of thing. It's like, yeah, exactly, you just

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Speaker 1: like get these nice moments, and that's partially why some

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Speaker 1: of it's so uncomfortable because she just like linger on

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Speaker 1: Jason Siegel's dreams being crushed. Uh yeah, I know. APTL

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Speaker 1: took the script to Dan McDermott, who is then head

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Speaker 1: of DreamWorks Television, and that he told Vanity Fair for

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Speaker 1: their history. Within twenty four hours, I'd say we gotta

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Speaker 1: pass from Fox, from CBS, from ABC. A day or

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Speaker 1: two later, we heard from Shelley McCrory, a development executive NBC.

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Speaker 1: She said, if we don't make this show, quitting the

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Speaker 1: television business. They really thought that Fox would be a

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Speaker 1: big cell because of nine O two one oh and

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Speaker 1: shows like that that have been a big success for

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Speaker 1: that network. Apparently NBC liked it because this was the

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Speaker 1: year that the Todd Salonce movie Welcome to the Dollhouse

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Speaker 1: came out, which was one of the movies that we

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Speaker 1: talked about that inspired cruel intentions. So TV networks were

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Speaker 1: trying to do something in that flavor, which sounds weird,

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Speaker 1: dark art house movie that I can't imagine made a

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Speaker 1: lot of money. But yeah, if he poured himself into

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Speaker 1: the characters as well. He said, Sam Weirds, who I

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Speaker 1: was in high school. Bill Haver Chuck is part of

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Speaker 1: who I was. Neil Schweiber is part of who I was.

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Speaker 1: Lindsay Weirs, who I was in my thirties. Writing the show,

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Speaker 1: My friends and I weren't popular in high school, he

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Speaker 1: had to Vanity Fair. We weren't dating all the time,

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Speaker 1: and we were just trying to get through our lives.

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Speaker 1: It was important to me to show that side. John

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Speaker 1: Francis Daily was that kid who has that just incredible

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Speaker 1: dead pan. Um, he's he's the main and he's like

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Speaker 1: the only kid who looks his age on the show.

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Speaker 1: He was the only one who was his actual age.

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Speaker 1: I think he auditioned at thirteen and was playing the

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Speaker 1: role by fourteen. Um. And he told Vulture, the writers

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Speaker 1: would get together and basically talk about all the worst

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Speaker 1: things that happened to them in their childhood, parents, breaking up,

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Speaker 1: being bullied, all these embarrassing stories. And then he says

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Speaker 1: one that never made it into the shows that Paul

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Speaker 1: dressed up in his mom's clothes. Then all of a sudden,

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Speaker 1: the neighbors came to his door and told him that

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Speaker 1: his mom or his dad was in a terrible car accident,

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Speaker 1: so he ran to the scene completely forgetting he was

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Speaker 1: wearing a dress. His mom saw him wearing her clothes,

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Speaker 1: and it became even more of an issue than the

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Speaker 1: car accident itself. I would love to have seen that

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Speaker 1: film for this show. Uh. Fun fact Jesse Eisenberg, who

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Speaker 1: at that time I think was just the Pepsi girl's sibling.

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Speaker 1: Oh my god, he was not known as he was

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Speaker 1: not Jesse Eisenberg back then. He was the second choice

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Speaker 1: of that character. Shockingly, they met with very little resistance

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Speaker 1: throughout the development process. Uh and Fee explain. We went

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Speaker 1: over to NBC and I remember feeling that new person

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Speaker 1: in the industry kind of indignation, like if they want

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Speaker 1: to change this at all, I'm not going to do

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Speaker 1: the show. So I start to make that speech and

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Speaker 1: Shelly goes, don't change a thing. I just like, yeah,

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Speaker 1: I mean, there was really so much support for this

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Speaker 1: show and then not at all. It just quickly evaporated.

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Speaker 1: But Jason Segal had this great quote in one of

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Speaker 1: the oral histories. I was like, we had the naivety

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Speaker 1: to just think that we could make the best show

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Speaker 1: in the world, and that was just how we approached everything.

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Speaker 1: We hadn't really none of us have really failed enough

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Speaker 1: to know that there could be an alternative. Yeah, Apata said,

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Speaker 1: Paul showed up when we started production with this bible.

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Speaker 1: He'd written about the show hundreds of pages long, with

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Speaker 1: every character in detail, what they wore, their favorite songs.

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Speaker 1: I asked him to write another few episodes to explore

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Speaker 1: the world, and he banged out two more. We took

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Speaker 1: a lot of moments from them and put them into

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Speaker 1: the pilot. I just want to add this allegedly massive

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Speaker 1: show by Bolt was apparently twenty one thousand words, or

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Speaker 1: roughly the length of our script for the back to

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Speaker 1: back Revolver episodes for this show. So the show's pilot

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Speaker 1: is notably one of the only episodes with a tidy,

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Speaker 1: self contained, happy little ending, which the writers decided to

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Speaker 1: implement in case the show didn't get picked up and

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Speaker 1: then the pilot could just live on its own. How

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Speaker 1: would it live on you? They would live on as

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Speaker 1: like a short. I think they just meant that they

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Speaker 1: maybe could have kept the rights and like used it

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Speaker 1: in like a show reel. I don't know whatever. The

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Speaker 1: term probably not a sizzle real if it's a full

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Speaker 1: length pilot. I don't know anything about the entertainment industry.

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Speaker 1: What do you call them? I mean a clip reel,

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Speaker 1: but you wouldn't put full length. You wouldn't put a

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Speaker 1: full length in the clip reel. Well, I guess if

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Speaker 1: you're a director, maybe you would. As a screenwriting major,

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Speaker 1: I was really interested in how they went about writing

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Speaker 1: the scripts for this show, and the writers basically spent

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Speaker 1: their first two weeks together and what they described as

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Speaker 1: an extended group therapy session, which, having been in a

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Speaker 1: lot of these writing rooms before, I could say it

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Speaker 1: is very very much like a group therapy session. Uh.

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Speaker 1: John Apotel said he wanted writers who'd been around and

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Speaker 1: lived life and had done some things, and specifically had

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Speaker 1: done some bad things. So he wrote this questionnaire. I

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Speaker 1: think this is brilliant. He wrote a questionnaire that he

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Speaker 1: distributed to the writers that had questions like, what's the

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Speaker 1: worst thing that ever happened you in high school? What's

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Speaker 1: the best thing to happen to you in high school,

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Speaker 1: what's the most trouble you got into with your parents,

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Speaker 1: what's your best drug experience, what's your worst drug experience?

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Speaker 1: And obviously all writers put their life experiences into these

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Speaker 1: sorts of projects. But I just thought it was really smart,

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Speaker 1: really methodical way to go about leading these people to

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Speaker 1: just plumb the depths of their souls, because you know,

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Speaker 1: that's the kind of stuff that resonates on the screen,

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Speaker 1: these really personal stories. And they would go around the

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Speaker 1: writer's room table and share the most you know, embarrassing

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Speaker 1: story of their lives, and everybody would grown, and you know,

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Speaker 1: they're looking for the most painful thing, and everybody would

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Speaker 1: grown and say, Okay, well that's the one. We'll do

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Speaker 1: it for the episode. And then somebody around the table

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Speaker 1: would chime in say, actually, wait a minute, I got

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Speaker 1: I got one that's worse, and then they would like

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Speaker 1: they just would be constantly one upping each other for

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Speaker 1: teenage humiliation. And like a good example was the episode

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Speaker 1: where um Sam gets the Parisian night suit or that

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Speaker 1: that just go jump suit. That was something that really

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Speaker 1: happened to Paul fig He got this leisure suit onesie

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Speaker 1: and more to school thinking that he was going to

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Speaker 1: be the coolest guy there, and when he arrived, he

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Speaker 1: promptly realized he'd made the biggest mistake of his life.

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Speaker 1: And he said it was fun on the show recreating

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Speaker 1: the most horrific moment of my past shut appens out.

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Speaker 1: He always talks about how whenever Paul fig would tell

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Speaker 1: these stories of humiliation from his childhood, someone would inevitably

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Speaker 1: ask how old were you when that happened, like twelve,

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Speaker 1: and he would always reluctantly respond, um, seventeen. He was

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Speaker 1: always like a little older than everyone assumed. But yeah,

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Speaker 1: these stories cut so close to the bone. There was

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Speaker 1: that plot line where Neil suspects that his dad's cheating

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Speaker 1: and he finds a garage door clicker in his dad's

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Speaker 1: car that doesn't open the family garage. So he bikes

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Speaker 1: all over town, pointing the clicker different houses just to

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Speaker 1: see which door it opens, and then he finally finds

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Speaker 1: the right one and the stranger's garage door opens up

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Speaker 1: and there's his dad's car inside. That was a real

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Speaker 1: story from one of the writers, like he actually did that,

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Speaker 1: which is heartbreaking. Yeah, that's that's such a I mean,

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Speaker 1: that's like a that's like a John Cheever short story

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Speaker 1: or something like. That's such a great image and yeah,

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Speaker 1: oh yeah, his kid just by himself. It's Yeah, it's

426
00:21:38,680 --> 00:21:42,640
Speaker 1: horrendous and the director Ken Kappas, who I later knew

427
00:21:42,720 --> 00:21:45,040
Speaker 1: from all of his work on the Office. He's a

428
00:21:45,040 --> 00:21:47,639
Speaker 1: regular director on the Office. He said, there was always

429
00:21:47,680 --> 00:21:50,960
Speaker 1: a sort of low level depression just underneath these stories.

430
00:21:51,640 --> 00:21:54,240
Speaker 1: And it's true, the goofiness of freaking gigs is always

431
00:21:54,280 --> 00:21:58,520
Speaker 1: tempered by these truly devastating moments. And if that can

432
00:21:58,560 --> 00:22:00,879
Speaker 1: go bad, I mean as much. Just I love Mash

433
00:22:01,040 --> 00:22:04,119
Speaker 1: one of my favorite TV shows. Ever, sometimes that can

434
00:22:04,119 --> 00:22:06,200
Speaker 1: get a little grading and it seem a little preachy,

435
00:22:06,200 --> 00:22:08,760
Speaker 1: it can seem a little bit a little heavy handed. Yeah,

436
00:22:08,880 --> 00:22:11,360
Speaker 1: that's the that's the bit about it. Did I send

437
00:22:11,400 --> 00:22:14,600
Speaker 1: you the Futurama thing where they have the Aldabot that

438
00:22:14,640 --> 00:22:18,800
Speaker 1: has a switch that goes between comic and Maudlin, But

439
00:22:18,840 --> 00:22:21,000
Speaker 1: I don't. I don't sense that on this show at all.

440
00:22:21,400 --> 00:22:24,240
Speaker 1: It's a really incredible blend. If it had gone on,

441
00:22:25,960 --> 00:22:29,760
Speaker 1: he would have been ruined, just like everything. Um they

442
00:22:29,800 --> 00:22:32,560
Speaker 1: decided explicitly that they were going to cast believable looking

443
00:22:32,640 --> 00:22:35,359
Speaker 1: kids for the show, which, again, weirdly, the network was

444
00:22:35,400 --> 00:22:39,000
Speaker 1: shockingly fine with UM as some of the notes that

445
00:22:39,040 --> 00:22:41,200
Speaker 1: they started getting is really funny. Gabe Sacks, one of

446
00:22:41,240 --> 00:22:44,440
Speaker 1: the writers, told The Guardian that they wanted to well.

447
00:22:44,480 --> 00:22:46,320
Speaker 1: First of all, they wanted Franco to take off his shirt.

448
00:22:46,359 --> 00:22:48,320
Speaker 1: They wanted James Franco to be shirtless and to see

449
00:22:48,359 --> 00:22:52,160
Speaker 1: and they also pitched Britney Spears appearing is like a waitress,

450
00:22:52,240 --> 00:22:54,720
Speaker 1: as like stunt casting. They were like, she's hot, right now,

451
00:22:54,840 --> 00:22:57,359
Speaker 1: try and get her in the show. They're like, you

452
00:22:57,440 --> 00:23:00,560
Speaker 1: people don't understand us. They did get Ben Stiller to

453
00:23:00,600 --> 00:23:03,560
Speaker 1: appear as a favorite apatle in like I think the

454
00:23:03,640 --> 00:23:07,720
Speaker 1: seventeenth episode, but by that time the show was already canceled,

455
00:23:07,800 --> 00:23:10,159
Speaker 1: so it was kind of too little, too late. But

456
00:23:10,680 --> 00:23:14,959
Speaker 1: believability was really the watchword for Paul all the way

457
00:23:15,000 --> 00:23:16,879
Speaker 1: down to the dialogue and as he wrote in the

458
00:23:16,880 --> 00:23:19,080
Speaker 1: show bible that he put together, which I think you

459
00:23:19,119 --> 00:23:22,680
Speaker 1: can find online. I saw excerpts from it on Slate. Uh,

460
00:23:22,720 --> 00:23:25,720
Speaker 1: he wrote, the show must be real. The teens in

461
00:23:25,760 --> 00:23:28,560
Speaker 1: this series will talk like real teens. They will never

462
00:23:28,600 --> 00:23:31,240
Speaker 1: be too clever or grown up sounding. We don't want

463
00:23:31,240 --> 00:23:35,160
Speaker 1: a bunch of teenage Neil Simons spouting off wittally. These

464
00:23:35,240 --> 00:23:39,200
Speaker 1: kids generally engage in teenage put downs. They overextend their language,

465
00:23:39,240 --> 00:23:43,880
Speaker 1: as in, oh yeah, well, you're a a big idiot,

466
00:23:43,920 --> 00:23:46,840
Speaker 1: that's what you are, and they never talk in that writers.

467
00:23:47,000 --> 00:23:48,919
Speaker 1: Now I'm in my thirties and I now know what

468
00:23:48,920 --> 00:23:51,280
Speaker 1: I'd say in that high school situation, so I'll give

469
00:23:51,280 --> 00:23:54,360
Speaker 1: this kid a snappy comeback style of writing. These kids

470
00:23:54,400 --> 00:23:56,080
Speaker 1: have to deal with each other with whatever is in

471
00:23:56,119 --> 00:23:59,200
Speaker 1: the lexicon of a teenager and nothing more. And despite

472
00:23:59,200 --> 00:24:00,720
Speaker 1: the fact that most of us think if I knew

473
00:24:00,720 --> 00:24:02,760
Speaker 1: then what I know now, I'd be really cool and

474
00:24:02,800 --> 00:24:05,320
Speaker 1: in control, the sad truth is that if we knew

475
00:24:05,359 --> 00:24:07,240
Speaker 1: what we know now when we were in high school,

476
00:24:07,359 --> 00:24:09,840
Speaker 1: we probably would get beaten up on a regular basis

477
00:24:09,920 --> 00:24:12,840
Speaker 1: because the bullies don't respond well the clever put downs

478
00:24:12,840 --> 00:24:16,960
Speaker 1: at their expense. The pree Sinking Show Bible is very entertaining.

479
00:24:16,960 --> 00:24:20,840
Speaker 1: Look it up. Uh, they filmed the pilot at Ulysses S.

480
00:24:20,920 --> 00:24:24,040
Speaker 1: Grant High School in l A. Which sounds that just

481
00:24:24,880 --> 00:24:27,720
Speaker 1: and why did they do that? Why did they name

482
00:24:27,840 --> 00:24:30,560
Speaker 1: somewhere in a side school in Los Angeles after a

483
00:24:30,600 --> 00:24:34,560
Speaker 1: Civil War general? Anyway? Uh, probably the one of the

484
00:24:34,640 --> 00:24:37,639
Speaker 1: most if not the I don't know, couldn't I couldn't

485
00:24:37,640 --> 00:24:40,640
Speaker 1: find the superlative, but one of the most filmed locations

486
00:24:40,680 --> 00:24:44,040
Speaker 1: in modern cinema, but the rest of the episodes were

487
00:24:44,080 --> 00:24:48,439
Speaker 1: filmed in a meticulously recreated set thereof they had to

488
00:24:48,480 --> 00:24:51,359
Speaker 1: do that partially because they had to avoid palm trees

489
00:24:51,400 --> 00:24:54,000
Speaker 1: and old shots because this is supposed to be set

490
00:24:54,040 --> 00:24:57,080
Speaker 1: in Michigan. Yeah. I looked up stuff that was shot

491
00:24:57,119 --> 00:24:59,920
Speaker 1: at Grant High School and I quickly got overwhelmed euphoria.

492
00:25:00,000 --> 00:25:02,200
Speaker 1: Of filmed a bit there, so did some of Clueless.

493
00:25:02,880 --> 00:25:05,200
Speaker 1: I was used as the exterior for Safe by the Bell.

494
00:25:05,480 --> 00:25:07,720
Speaker 1: The Office filmed a bit there, as well as the

495
00:25:07,800 --> 00:25:10,879
Speaker 1: videos freggysaleas Fancy, which makes sense because it was a

496
00:25:10,920 --> 00:25:15,160
Speaker 1: Clueless rip p didd He's all about the Benjamin's and

497
00:25:15,600 --> 00:25:20,640
Speaker 1: the video for Weetas's deathless teenage dirt bag. So quite

498
00:25:20,640 --> 00:25:23,159
Speaker 1: a history. But yeah, after the pilot got picked up,

499
00:25:23,200 --> 00:25:25,800
Speaker 1: they built a T shaped hallway that stood in for

500
00:25:25,840 --> 00:25:28,560
Speaker 1: the school and I don't know why I find this

501
00:25:28,640 --> 00:25:31,760
Speaker 1: so great. Whenever the student extras walked past the camera,

502
00:25:32,119 --> 00:25:33,840
Speaker 1: they had to just stand at the end of the

503
00:25:33,920 --> 00:25:36,359
Speaker 1: hallway quietly because there's no work for them to go.

504
00:25:36,600 --> 00:25:39,520
Speaker 1: They just like congregated back there. Uh. And the show Bible,

505
00:25:39,640 --> 00:25:43,080
Speaker 1: which again Slate has online can look this up, lists

506
00:25:43,119 --> 00:25:45,280
Speaker 1: all the stuff that Paul fig wanted going on in

507
00:25:45,320 --> 00:25:47,359
Speaker 1: the background of the hallway to make it feel real,

508
00:25:47,520 --> 00:25:50,960
Speaker 1: and his detail is just insane. He said. He wanted

509
00:25:51,000 --> 00:25:54,520
Speaker 1: to see a punching contest between two friends, band kids

510
00:25:54,520 --> 00:25:58,440
Speaker 1: selling candy bars, freak couples making out, janitors sweeping the

511
00:25:58,480 --> 00:26:02,560
Speaker 1: hallway with red sawdust read small dust, kids carrying around

512
00:26:02,560 --> 00:26:05,399
Speaker 1: their combs, some science fair projects, and girls coming up

513
00:26:05,400 --> 00:26:07,080
Speaker 1: to a group of guys and telling them that one

514
00:26:07,080 --> 00:26:10,760
Speaker 1: of the girls likes them. Is I love that the attention.

515
00:26:11,240 --> 00:26:17,119
Speaker 1: It's like Truman Show level world building. Casting trivia dump.

516
00:26:17,560 --> 00:26:20,360
Speaker 1: Sam Levine, who played Neal, told Vulture there's the way

517
00:26:20,359 --> 00:26:22,560
Speaker 1: that the characters were written in the pilot before anyone

518
00:26:22,640 --> 00:26:25,879
Speaker 1: was cast, and then that changed after Judd and Paul

519
00:26:25,960 --> 00:26:29,840
Speaker 1: and the director Jake Caston cast all the child actors.

520
00:26:30,280 --> 00:26:33,160
Speaker 1: They really really wrote to our strengths and it seemed

521
00:26:33,200 --> 00:26:37,600
Speaker 1: a more authentic outcome. Emmy Award winning casting director Alison

522
00:26:37,680 --> 00:26:39,399
Speaker 1: Jones was brought in for the show. In fact, the

523
00:26:39,400 --> 00:26:44,919
Speaker 1: only Emmy this show one was for its casting on

524
00:26:44,960 --> 00:26:48,040
Speaker 1: Piked Variety. We did tons of casting sessions. It was

525
00:26:48,119 --> 00:26:50,479
Speaker 1: very apparent each time the right person would walk in.

526
00:26:50,920 --> 00:26:52,560
Speaker 1: Some of them weren't exactly the way that they were

527
00:26:52,560 --> 00:26:55,879
Speaker 1: written in the script. We decided, let's just rewrite the character.

528
00:26:56,359 --> 00:26:58,800
Speaker 1: So we have John Francis Daily, who I mentioned was

529
00:26:58,880 --> 00:27:01,479
Speaker 1: third Team when he auditioned, and uh he told Vanity

530
00:27:01,480 --> 00:27:04,119
Speaker 1: Fair he was really sick. He said, I think that

531
00:27:04,160 --> 00:27:06,720
Speaker 1: helped me ultimately because it let me put my guard down.

532
00:27:07,040 --> 00:27:09,280
Speaker 1: I was just focused on not throwing up. He always

533
00:27:09,320 --> 00:27:12,080
Speaker 1: on the show kind of looks a little launched, nauseous. Yeah,

534
00:27:12,640 --> 00:27:15,520
Speaker 1: that's part of his brand, Uh, he haded to Vulture.

535
00:27:15,680 --> 00:27:17,679
Speaker 1: He was kind of the odd man out because of

536
00:27:17,760 --> 00:27:20,200
Speaker 1: his youth. I was fourteen and I was the only

537
00:27:20,200 --> 00:27:23,520
Speaker 1: one who didn't have body hair. Ah. He was so young,

538
00:27:24,200 --> 00:27:26,359
Speaker 1: or at the very least so sheltered that he still

539
00:27:26,400 --> 00:27:29,440
Speaker 1: believed in Santa Claus when he was filming this show,

540
00:27:30,359 --> 00:27:35,800
Speaker 1: and uh Seth Rogan gleefully disabused him of that notion.

541
00:27:36,560 --> 00:27:39,440
Speaker 1: Uh Seth Rogan. He was talking to Vulture, and I

542
00:27:39,480 --> 00:27:41,399
Speaker 1: don't even know what he was being interviewed for, but

543
00:27:41,560 --> 00:27:43,480
Speaker 1: at some point he was like, I will ruin it

544
00:27:43,520 --> 00:27:45,840
Speaker 1: for you if you still believe in Santa Claus. When

545
00:27:45,920 --> 00:27:49,199
Speaker 1: John Francis Daily was filming Preaching Geeks, he let it

546
00:27:49,240 --> 00:27:51,600
Speaker 1: slip that he like maybe sort of believed in Santa

547
00:27:51,600 --> 00:27:55,880
Speaker 1: Claus and Rogan wrecked his world right then and there.

548
00:27:59,560 --> 00:28:03,520
Speaker 1: That was was Rogan's point. Oh yeah, sweet boy, though

549
00:28:03,520 --> 00:28:06,760
Speaker 1: a little dear head lights boy. Oh yeah. In a sense,

550
00:28:06,800 --> 00:28:09,399
Speaker 1: that's very true to high school because everyone comes in

551
00:28:09,440 --> 00:28:11,960
Speaker 1: at these different maturity levels where you do have kids

552
00:28:12,000 --> 00:28:14,159
Speaker 1: and you know, still believe in Santa and then kids

553
00:28:14,200 --> 00:28:18,040
Speaker 1: that you know are shaving and you know, look like

554
00:28:18,040 --> 00:28:21,040
Speaker 1: they could be in their twenties. The mind's behind the

555
00:28:21,080 --> 00:28:24,000
Speaker 1: show really at a hard time casting the Sam role

556
00:28:24,400 --> 00:28:26,360
Speaker 1: because they didn't want to do the classic TV thing

557
00:28:26,359 --> 00:28:28,720
Speaker 1: of casting an eighteen year old who look thirteen or fourteen.

558
00:28:28,960 --> 00:28:31,280
Speaker 1: And Paul Figue said that John Francis Daily, I love

559
00:28:31,359 --> 00:28:33,960
Speaker 1: this quote, had a glass head because you look into

560
00:28:34,040 --> 00:28:36,800
Speaker 1: his eyes and you see everything that he's thinking and

561
00:28:36,840 --> 00:28:40,120
Speaker 1: everything that he's going through. Yeah, those massive eyes. Yeah,

562
00:28:40,160 --> 00:28:44,280
Speaker 1: that's so true for his crush slash girlfriend at whatever

563
00:28:44,360 --> 00:28:47,240
Speaker 1: time on the show, Cindy the Cheerleader, they were considering

564
00:28:47,280 --> 00:28:51,240
Speaker 1: a young Kayley Quoco. Is that weird? Yeah? Side note

565
00:28:51,280 --> 00:28:53,440
Speaker 1: apparently in that episode where they watch a real the

566
00:28:53,520 --> 00:28:56,160
Speaker 1: real porn, uh, they're actually watching a porn in that

567
00:28:56,320 --> 00:29:00,440
Speaker 1: scene is that illegal? Can't you not show born too?

568
00:29:02,000 --> 00:29:04,720
Speaker 1: You know what, that's a good point. I should look

569
00:29:04,720 --> 00:29:09,760
Speaker 1: that up again. Uh. Linda Cardelini, who was then twenty three,

570
00:29:10,120 --> 00:29:13,000
Speaker 1: was cast as the sixteen year old Lindsay Sam's older sister.

571
00:29:13,520 --> 00:29:16,160
Speaker 1: Lindsay was the only character not based on somebody I knew.

572
00:29:16,320 --> 00:29:19,120
Speaker 1: He told Vanity Fair, but Linda was the exact person

573
00:29:19,160 --> 00:29:21,240
Speaker 1: I had in my head when she walked in. It

574
00:29:21,320 --> 00:29:24,640
Speaker 1: was just like she's alive. Director Jake Caston, who also

575
00:29:24,840 --> 00:29:27,080
Speaker 1: edited the show, told the magazine we used to say

576
00:29:27,120 --> 00:29:29,440
Speaker 1: in editing that you could always cut to Linda and

577
00:29:29,480 --> 00:29:32,920
Speaker 1: she'd be doing the right thing. It's nuts that the

578
00:29:33,000 --> 00:29:35,520
Speaker 1: chemistry on this show was so good considering that she's

579
00:29:35,560 --> 00:29:39,280
Speaker 1: like ten years older than the kid plan her brother. Like,

580
00:29:39,400 --> 00:29:42,480
Speaker 1: that's so nuts, And like I think her the girl

581
00:29:42,600 --> 00:29:44,600
Speaker 1: was playing her best friend Milly on the show, she

582
00:29:44,680 --> 00:29:47,320
Speaker 1: was like fifteen in real life too, so that's again

583
00:29:47,360 --> 00:29:49,920
Speaker 1: like almost ten years apart. And you know, it's one

584
00:29:49,920 --> 00:29:51,920
Speaker 1: thing if it's like Greece where all the actors are

585
00:29:51,960 --> 00:29:53,880
Speaker 1: in their late twenties and they're all kind of at

586
00:29:53,920 --> 00:29:56,040
Speaker 1: the same level. But I mean the age range here

587
00:29:56,720 --> 00:29:59,160
Speaker 1: is crazy, but they still have that camaraderie. I just

588
00:29:59,160 --> 00:30:00,720
Speaker 1: think that's so impress us have in a group with

589
00:30:00,760 --> 00:30:04,360
Speaker 1: the age spans so huge. Um Martin Star as Bill

590
00:30:04,440 --> 00:30:06,960
Speaker 1: Hayr Chuck. When Martin Star came in, there was no

591
00:30:07,080 --> 00:30:09,560
Speaker 1: question in my mind that he was Bill Feke told Vulture,

592
00:30:09,920 --> 00:30:11,680
Speaker 1: he reminded me so much of the kid that I

593
00:30:11,720 --> 00:30:14,640
Speaker 1: based the character on. Apatow said, I have to say,

594
00:30:14,640 --> 00:30:17,040
Speaker 1: the first time I saw Martin on tape, I wasn't sure.

595
00:30:17,920 --> 00:30:20,400
Speaker 1: It was the first time Martin Star had tested for anything,

596
00:30:20,600 --> 00:30:22,880
Speaker 1: so that makes sense. And then I saw him in

597
00:30:22,920 --> 00:30:26,400
Speaker 1: person and thought, this guy's incredible. It was really a creation,

598
00:30:26,560 --> 00:30:28,840
Speaker 1: and Martin understood it. But I think he was doing

599
00:30:28,880 --> 00:30:31,640
Speaker 1: a character more than anyone else. Yeah, if you see

600
00:30:31,720 --> 00:30:34,440
Speaker 1: him interviewed like he definitely seems like a completely different

601
00:30:34,480 --> 00:30:37,880
Speaker 1: person then, whereas the kid who plays Neil kind of

602
00:30:37,880 --> 00:30:43,360
Speaker 1: seems like Neil uh Jake has in. The director added divanity, affair,

603
00:30:43,480 --> 00:30:46,440
Speaker 1: the blank stare, and the way Martin is doing those affects,

604
00:30:46,520 --> 00:30:50,920
Speaker 1: mouth hanging open. It's just this incredibly subtle, inspired comic character.

605
00:30:51,240 --> 00:30:53,480
Speaker 1: We figured out how to write it and play to it,

606
00:30:53,520 --> 00:30:55,440
Speaker 1: but it was not on the page initially, and it

607
00:30:55,480 --> 00:30:58,400
Speaker 1: wasn't him playing himself either. He could make you cry

608
00:30:58,520 --> 00:31:01,440
Speaker 1: laughing by doing almost thing. Then it turned out he

609
00:31:01,480 --> 00:31:04,680
Speaker 1: could do anything. Um, this is just a funny detail.

610
00:31:04,720 --> 00:31:08,760
Speaker 1: They they were allowed to use the gym at Raleigh

611
00:31:08,760 --> 00:31:11,640
Speaker 1: Studios in Hollywood, and Martin Starr started going every day

612
00:31:11,640 --> 00:31:15,200
Speaker 1: with James Franco and uh like put on muscle weight

613
00:31:15,840 --> 00:31:18,719
Speaker 1: and they were like, yeah, buddy, you you can't be

614
00:31:18,800 --> 00:31:21,280
Speaker 1: buff for this role. You have to stop going to

615
00:31:21,320 --> 00:31:23,560
Speaker 1: the gym so much. That's why they made him wear

616
00:31:23,560 --> 00:31:27,120
Speaker 1: a robe in the locker room scenes. And they had

617
00:31:27,160 --> 00:31:31,000
Speaker 1: a similar discussion with the well not kind of similar

618
00:31:31,040 --> 00:31:33,360
Speaker 1: discussion with the women in the cast. In order to

619
00:31:33,440 --> 00:31:36,160
Speaker 1: ensure that they look like real people, they suggested that

620
00:31:36,160 --> 00:31:38,560
Speaker 1: they didn't lose any weight for the roles, and Busy

621
00:31:38,600 --> 00:31:41,400
Speaker 1: Phillips recalled in her memoir that Judd Apatao took him

622
00:31:41,400 --> 00:31:43,840
Speaker 1: aside and told them that they were quote perfect the

623
00:31:43,840 --> 00:31:45,680
Speaker 1: way we were, and that he wanted to make sure

624
00:31:45,720 --> 00:31:47,920
Speaker 1: we didn't feel any pressure to be thinned from anyone

625
00:31:48,160 --> 00:31:50,520
Speaker 1: because that wasn't what they wanted, which I guess is

626
00:31:50,560 --> 00:31:55,640
Speaker 1: a nice message to young actresses. Yeah, that's cute. Meanwhile,

627
00:31:56,000 --> 00:31:58,400
Speaker 1: James Franco and Seth Rogan were apparently both on a

628
00:31:58,440 --> 00:32:01,560
Speaker 1: strict vegan diet during then because Seth Rogan wanted to

629
00:32:01,600 --> 00:32:04,640
Speaker 1: lose weight. That's so funny. Yeah, in that same gym interview,

630
00:32:04,680 --> 00:32:10,320
Speaker 1: they were like, uh, Rogan wasn't going He was like no, Uh.

631
00:32:10,360 --> 00:32:13,200
Speaker 1: Sam Levine is neo Schweiber. Sam Levin was sixteen when

632
00:32:13,200 --> 00:32:15,360
Speaker 1: he was cast for this. He told Vanity Fair, my

633
00:32:15,440 --> 00:32:18,479
Speaker 1: audition wasn't terribly good, but I had asked beforehand if

634
00:32:18,480 --> 00:32:21,320
Speaker 1: I could do my William Shatner as part of it,

635
00:32:21,360 --> 00:32:24,400
Speaker 1: which is terrible. That that's the point, and fig said.

636
00:32:24,480 --> 00:32:27,920
Speaker 1: Levine looks past the camera to the casting director and goes, now,

637
00:32:28,360 --> 00:32:30,760
Speaker 1: can I and then he goes into a William Shatner

638
00:32:30,800 --> 00:32:34,239
Speaker 1: impression that was so corny and silly, and Judd's like,

639
00:32:34,760 --> 00:32:36,320
Speaker 1: that's all of us when we were in high school,

640
00:32:36,440 --> 00:32:39,560
Speaker 1: just trying to be funny, just doing stupid shi La

641
00:32:39,600 --> 00:32:42,040
Speaker 1: Buff also read for that role. Uh. He said. He

642
00:32:42,120 --> 00:32:44,480
Speaker 1: came in I think basically looking like his even Steven's

643
00:32:44,560 --> 00:32:47,360
Speaker 1: character in like a Hawaiian shirt, like I think he

644
00:32:47,440 --> 00:32:50,120
Speaker 1: was like really under the thrall of Cramer at the time,

645
00:32:50,400 --> 00:32:53,320
Speaker 1: like out from Seinfeld as like as a oh Wow,

646
00:32:54,040 --> 00:32:58,000
Speaker 1: go figure, can you do a shot there? No, yes,

647
00:32:58,080 --> 00:33:01,800
Speaker 1: I can. I'm just not going to okay because she

648
00:33:01,920 --> 00:33:04,160
Speaker 1: just punch in the rocket Man performance that he does,

649
00:33:04,280 --> 00:33:05,880
Speaker 1: because that's really what I'd be doing as I mean,

650
00:33:05,960 --> 00:33:10,920
Speaker 1: I'd be doing this the Family Guy Stewie, she's pretty flawless.

651
00:33:11,200 --> 00:33:14,120
Speaker 1: It's just my it's my Paul one. Yeah. Not gonna

652
00:33:14,320 --> 00:33:18,240
Speaker 1: be working on new little novel there. Uh yeah, man,

653
00:33:18,240 --> 00:33:20,600
Speaker 1: that's that. I can't believe that show pulled that out,

654
00:33:20,680 --> 00:33:23,600
Speaker 1: like pre Internet when you would have just no like

655
00:33:23,640 --> 00:33:27,240
Speaker 1: I remember seeing that line being like, what the hell

656
00:33:27,640 --> 00:33:31,040
Speaker 1: is this and then years being later being like, ah,

657
00:33:31,080 --> 00:33:34,520
Speaker 1: it's a reference to a live performance. William Shatner did

658
00:33:34,640 --> 00:33:40,440
Speaker 1: one set and award show they just made uninterrupted space

659
00:33:40,480 --> 00:33:47,160
Speaker 1: on their primetime animated comedy to just reference that narrative

660
00:33:47,400 --> 00:33:53,000
Speaker 1: to just a screeching halt for like ninety seconds. Anyway,

661
00:33:53,360 --> 00:33:57,240
Speaker 1: Family Guy sidebar over James Frankie is Daniel de Sario.

662
00:33:58,040 --> 00:34:01,960
Speaker 1: Perhaps unsurprisingly, given what we know about Franco in two

663
00:34:02,920 --> 00:34:06,680
Speaker 1: which just google James Franco allegations get a quick read

664
00:34:06,720 --> 00:34:11,160
Speaker 1: on that, people's memories of him on this show are checkered.

665
00:34:13,000 --> 00:34:15,800
Speaker 1: Afatao said he seemed perfect to be a small town

666
00:34:15,840 --> 00:34:18,400
Speaker 1: cool guy who wasn't as cool as he thought he was,

667
00:34:18,840 --> 00:34:23,680
Speaker 1: which is a devastating put down of James Franco's entire being. Uh,

668
00:34:23,680 --> 00:34:26,080
Speaker 1: when all the women in our office started talking about

669
00:34:26,080 --> 00:34:28,640
Speaker 1: how gorgeous he was, Me and Feed just started laughing

670
00:34:28,680 --> 00:34:31,520
Speaker 1: because we didn't see it. Yeah, and this Ay documentary

671
00:34:31,560 --> 00:34:34,120
Speaker 1: I mentioned earlier about the show, Paul Figg says that

672
00:34:34,160 --> 00:34:36,359
Speaker 1: he was kind of like, oh no, we don't want

673
00:34:36,440 --> 00:34:38,360
Speaker 1: him on the show. I didn't know that he was hot.

674
00:34:38,400 --> 00:34:41,279
Speaker 1: I just thought he was goofy looking. He looks like

675
00:34:41,320 --> 00:34:45,560
Speaker 1: a lizard. There's this audition footage of James Franco reading

676
00:34:45,560 --> 00:34:48,640
Speaker 1: for Nick Jason Siegel's character where he's like describing his

677
00:34:48,760 --> 00:34:52,480
Speaker 1: huge drum kit and it's really kind of bad. Just

678
00:34:52,640 --> 00:34:56,000
Speaker 1: five more pieces and I'll have more than It's not

679
00:34:56,080 --> 00:35:00,000
Speaker 1: a very good audition. Yeah, Daily described Franco as all

680
00:35:00,000 --> 00:35:02,920
Speaker 1: he's the one that had a Camu novel, heavily dog eared,

681
00:35:03,000 --> 00:35:05,160
Speaker 1: and his car was so full of junk it looks

682
00:35:05,160 --> 00:35:07,480
Speaker 1: like he lived out of it. I think the wardrobe

683
00:35:07,520 --> 00:35:09,920
Speaker 1: woman that costumer talks about him coming in with a

684
00:35:09,960 --> 00:35:12,760
Speaker 1: copy of The Carouac under his arm, just like fully

685
00:35:12,800 --> 00:35:15,919
Speaker 1: being that guy. It's got to be a prop. I mean,

686
00:35:16,120 --> 00:35:18,840
Speaker 1: I knew I knew so many people like that in school.

687
00:35:19,040 --> 00:35:21,920
Speaker 1: And I also I went to n y U in

688
00:35:21,960 --> 00:35:25,880
Speaker 1: the film department when Franco was going there for whatever

689
00:35:25,960 --> 00:35:28,120
Speaker 1: program he was there for, and my friends would see

690
00:35:28,160 --> 00:35:31,320
Speaker 1: him around, and Christie, my girlfriend, used to rent equipment

691
00:35:31,320 --> 00:35:34,840
Speaker 1: out to him at the film center. And some people

692
00:35:35,000 --> 00:35:36,880
Speaker 1: had his cell number because it was in the student

693
00:35:36,960 --> 00:35:40,719
Speaker 1: database things, so they text him every time there was

694
00:35:40,760 --> 00:35:44,799
Speaker 1: a party to see if he would come. He never responded.

695
00:35:45,840 --> 00:35:49,640
Speaker 1: They probably dodged a bullet there. Levi le being called

696
00:35:49,680 --> 00:35:52,680
Speaker 1: Franco a bit of a methodie, hothead type of actor.

697
00:35:52,719 --> 00:35:56,480
Speaker 1: To page six, shouts to my old boss Lindsay Uh

698
00:35:56,560 --> 00:35:58,680
Speaker 1: telling a story about filming a scene for the finale,

699
00:35:58,800 --> 00:36:02,000
Speaker 1: during which Franco, who was fed up with what he

700
00:36:02,080 --> 00:36:05,839
Speaker 1: felt was insufficient commitment from his fellow actors, called them

701
00:36:05,840 --> 00:36:09,440
Speaker 1: all bad actors and stormed off the set, slamming a

702
00:36:09,520 --> 00:36:13,160
Speaker 1: door so hard that it broke. Uh. Rogan told Vanity

703
00:36:13,200 --> 00:36:15,640
Speaker 1: Fair James would do stuff at times just to push

704
00:36:15,640 --> 00:36:19,040
Speaker 1: people's buttons. I think he threw milk in someone's face

705
00:36:19,120 --> 00:36:22,120
Speaker 1: as an improv, and I remember thinking that's not the

706
00:36:22,160 --> 00:36:31,319
Speaker 1: best improv that in seth Rogen's voice anyway. And then,

707
00:36:31,320 --> 00:36:34,560
Speaker 1: of course there's Busy Phillips, who apparently originally auditioned for

708
00:36:34,600 --> 00:36:38,200
Speaker 1: the role of Lindsay Linda Carlini's character. Uh. Linda and

709
00:36:38,320 --> 00:36:42,520
Speaker 1: Busy actually go way back as classmates at Loyola Merrimount University,

710
00:36:43,000 --> 00:36:46,080
Speaker 1: and Busy was initially hesitant about taking on the role

711
00:36:46,120 --> 00:36:48,600
Speaker 1: of Kim Kelly because her agent told her to wait

712
00:36:48,640 --> 00:36:51,120
Speaker 1: around for a bigger role, but it was Linda who

713
00:36:51,200 --> 00:36:53,480
Speaker 1: actually persuaded her to do it. Busy said in an

714
00:36:53,480 --> 00:36:56,520
Speaker 1: interview with The Huffington Post, She's the reason why I

715
00:36:56,560 --> 00:36:58,960
Speaker 1: did Freaks and Geeks. Linda. I wasn't sure if I

716
00:36:58,960 --> 00:37:00,640
Speaker 1: should do it because my just we're telling me I

717
00:37:00,680 --> 00:37:02,760
Speaker 1: should hold out for a bigger part on another pilot.

718
00:37:03,160 --> 00:37:05,359
Speaker 1: And then I ran into Linda at the airport. We

719
00:37:05,360 --> 00:37:08,080
Speaker 1: were both picking up friends and taking them back to school,

720
00:37:08,400 --> 00:37:10,840
Speaker 1: and she was like, I just got the part of Lindsay.

721
00:37:10,880 --> 00:37:13,000
Speaker 1: You have to be Kim. It'll be so much fun.

722
00:37:13,640 --> 00:37:15,880
Speaker 1: So that's a funny little you know, imagine if they

723
00:37:15,880 --> 00:37:18,680
Speaker 1: hadn't run into each other at the airport. So many

724
00:37:18,760 --> 00:37:22,080
Speaker 1: little like misconnections on the show are little moments that

725
00:37:22,120 --> 00:37:23,920
Speaker 1: could have gone, could have gone the other way, all

726
00:37:23,960 --> 00:37:25,720
Speaker 1: the way down to the time slot of the show.

727
00:37:26,200 --> 00:37:31,120
Speaker 1: Oh God. Lauren Ambrose from Can't Hardly Wait was initially

728
00:37:31,120 --> 00:37:33,120
Speaker 1: considered for the part of Lindsay, which I can kind

729
00:37:33,120 --> 00:37:36,279
Speaker 1: of see. Name rings no bells to me? Did you

730
00:37:36,280 --> 00:37:40,680
Speaker 1: ever see Can't Hardly Wait? She was did at the time,

731
00:37:40,840 --> 00:37:43,560
Speaker 1: but all I can think of now is the and

732
00:37:44,520 --> 00:37:52,560
Speaker 1: a few placements sung it, well, she's the one who wasn't. Yes,

733
00:37:54,680 --> 00:38:02,600
Speaker 1: she's the redhead who isn't He stops saying general of Uh,

734
00:38:02,920 --> 00:38:05,640
Speaker 1: moving on. Busy wrote her memoir Busy Phillips wrote her

735
00:38:05,640 --> 00:38:08,399
Speaker 1: memoir This will only hurt a little that Franco, who

736
00:38:08,440 --> 00:38:11,640
Speaker 1: was apparently angered by a moment which, mind you, was

737
00:38:11,719 --> 00:38:16,160
Speaker 1: written in the script where her character shoves him, grabbed

738
00:38:16,160 --> 00:38:18,879
Speaker 1: her by her arms and screamed in my face, don't

739
00:38:18,920 --> 00:38:23,160
Speaker 1: ever touch me again, and shoved her to the ground. Uh.

740
00:38:23,200 --> 00:38:28,200
Speaker 1: They have apparently talked it out since then, but still yeah.

741
00:38:28,719 --> 00:38:30,919
Speaker 1: She later kind of explained that it was something sort

742
00:38:30,920 --> 00:38:33,600
Speaker 1: of like a character choice, like he created this whole

743
00:38:33,640 --> 00:38:37,560
Speaker 1: backstory that he didn't share with the rest of the cast. Uh,

744
00:38:37,840 --> 00:38:40,560
Speaker 1: like that he came from a family that abused him

745
00:38:40,600 --> 00:38:42,600
Speaker 1: or something so that he didn't want his girlfriend to

746
00:38:42,640 --> 00:38:47,040
Speaker 1: ever like physically hit him. And Yeah, in this any documentary,

747
00:38:47,640 --> 00:38:50,960
Speaker 1: both Franco and Busy Phillips play it off as like

748
00:38:51,040 --> 00:38:55,640
Speaker 1: Franco being just, you know, Brando level method acting. But

749
00:38:55,719 --> 00:38:58,000
Speaker 1: I got the vibe in her memoir that she thought

750
00:38:58,000 --> 00:39:00,160
Speaker 1: that Franco was basically allowed to get away with all

751
00:39:00,160 --> 00:39:04,759
Speaker 1: sorts of stuff because it was a boys club. M Yeah,

752
00:39:04,880 --> 00:39:08,080
Speaker 1: I mean Seth Rogan, who has vowed to not work

753
00:39:08,120 --> 00:39:10,919
Speaker 1: with James Franco again following all these accusations. He said

754
00:39:10,960 --> 00:39:14,640
Speaker 1: to Vanity Fair that Busy scared me at first. She's

755
00:39:14,680 --> 00:39:17,120
Speaker 1: just kind of intimidating. She's a little loud, and she's

756
00:39:17,160 --> 00:39:20,160
Speaker 1: kind of physical. She'll punch you and smack you if

757
00:39:20,160 --> 00:39:23,239
Speaker 1: she doesn't like what you did as an exclamation. So,

758
00:39:23,320 --> 00:39:25,399
Speaker 1: I don't know, maybe he took that the wrong way. Yeah,

759
00:39:25,440 --> 00:39:28,840
Speaker 1: Franco said that Busy was tougher than he was. Franco

760
00:39:29,440 --> 00:39:32,480
Speaker 1: Seth Rogan as speaking Seth Rogan, Seth Rogan is Ken Miller.

761
00:39:32,840 --> 00:39:36,759
Speaker 1: I was sixteen, Rogan told Washington Post, I would do

762
00:39:36,840 --> 00:39:39,000
Speaker 1: stand up comedy and smoke a lot of weed and

763
00:39:39,080 --> 00:39:41,239
Speaker 1: confront the very real fact that I was probably going

764
00:39:41,280 --> 00:39:44,040
Speaker 1: to fail out of high school relatively soon. I got

765
00:39:44,080 --> 00:39:46,160
Speaker 1: an agent through doing stand up comedy to try an

766
00:39:46,200 --> 00:39:48,160
Speaker 1: audition for things, because it seemed like I would need

767
00:39:48,200 --> 00:39:50,000
Speaker 1: a job one day and I was not going to

768
00:39:50,040 --> 00:39:53,080
Speaker 1: get that through my academic path. Freaks and Geeks was

769
00:39:53,120 --> 00:39:56,120
Speaker 1: the second audition, so he dropped out of high school

770
00:39:56,120 --> 00:39:59,640
Speaker 1: and started doing the show, but and lied to the

771
00:40:00,000 --> 00:40:03,440
Speaker 1: auction saying that he was doing corresponded school from Canada

772
00:40:03,760 --> 00:40:07,760
Speaker 1: and instead he was writing super Bad Good for him

773
00:40:07,760 --> 00:40:11,480
Speaker 1: time well spent. Seth's very self deprecating about his acting

774
00:40:11,480 --> 00:40:13,759
Speaker 1: abilities at the time, and he later said, a lot

775
00:40:13,760 --> 00:40:16,040
Speaker 1: of what people attribute to my character choices are just

776
00:40:16,120 --> 00:40:19,359
Speaker 1: me not understanding what the hell I'm doing. I never

777
00:40:19,440 --> 00:40:23,759
Speaker 1: acted in anything. Uh. Interestingly, Seth Rogan isn't the only

778
00:40:23,800 --> 00:40:26,040
Speaker 1: cast member who wrote a screenplay while hanging out on

779
00:40:26,080 --> 00:40:29,720
Speaker 1: the side of Freaks and Geeks. James Franco apparently took

780
00:40:29,760 --> 00:40:32,720
Speaker 1: Martin Starr, the kid who played Bill the Tall Geek,

781
00:40:33,120 --> 00:40:35,360
Speaker 1: under his wing. We mentioned earlier. They went to the

782
00:40:35,360 --> 00:40:39,040
Speaker 1: studio gym together and worked out, and they apparently also

783
00:40:39,120 --> 00:40:43,360
Speaker 1: wrote a script together, which is like Dark Universe Freaks

784
00:40:43,360 --> 00:40:46,719
Speaker 1: and geeks. Martin Star told Vulture the script was about

785
00:40:46,719 --> 00:40:48,880
Speaker 1: a queue who goes to school, kills a bunch of people,

786
00:40:49,000 --> 00:40:52,000
Speaker 1: kills his girlfriend, then kills himself. Me and Franco would

787
00:40:52,040 --> 00:40:54,160
Speaker 1: walk over to this twenty four hour coffee shop two

788
00:40:54,200 --> 00:40:57,000
Speaker 1: blocks from me, and we'd write until two am. And

789
00:40:57,040 --> 00:40:59,359
Speaker 1: then he tried to bequeath unto me his knowledge of

790
00:40:59,440 --> 00:41:01,880
Speaker 1: life and women and everything else I was curious about.

791
00:41:02,280 --> 00:41:04,520
Speaker 1: He clearly had a better handle on that than I did.

792
00:41:04,840 --> 00:41:07,440
Speaker 1: We also talked about going the clubs and beating the

793
00:41:07,440 --> 00:41:10,920
Speaker 1: hell out of people we deemed pricks. Maybe he was,

794
00:41:11,840 --> 00:41:14,360
Speaker 1: maybe he was going along with what I felt, but

795
00:41:14,440 --> 00:41:16,719
Speaker 1: I feel we both had a genuine hatred for what

796
00:41:16,760 --> 00:41:19,359
Speaker 1: the popular culture was at the time. We were at

797
00:41:19,360 --> 00:41:21,960
Speaker 1: a dark place apparently, and we sit and write this

798
00:41:22,080 --> 00:41:26,280
Speaker 1: probably terrible script together while we were drunk. So that's troubling.

799
00:41:27,000 --> 00:41:31,400
Speaker 1: Good Lord. Jason Siegel is Nick and opoulos. Nick was

800
00:41:31,440 --> 00:41:34,399
Speaker 1: originally written as quote more of a gearhead car guy.

801
00:41:34,680 --> 00:41:37,040
Speaker 1: I think he was even described as a fire plug,

802
00:41:37,280 --> 00:41:42,000
Speaker 1: being told Variety, I think that's what he meant, fireplugs.

803
00:41:42,080 --> 00:41:44,719
Speaker 1: Fire plug like a I guess I mean like a

804
00:41:44,840 --> 00:41:47,680
Speaker 1: like a scrapper, like a like a roustabout or something.

805
00:41:47,800 --> 00:41:50,520
Speaker 1: But when Siegel quote this big, tall, handsome guy with

806
00:41:50,560 --> 00:41:54,400
Speaker 1: his interesting delivery and strange personality walked in, Apatow convinced

807
00:41:54,440 --> 00:41:56,640
Speaker 1: fig to rewrite the part because of how good Seguel

808
00:41:56,680 --> 00:41:58,719
Speaker 1: was in the audition. At the end of the day,

809
00:41:58,719 --> 00:42:01,759
Speaker 1: Paul allows that letting Jason Segel walk away would have

810
00:42:01,800 --> 00:42:05,040
Speaker 1: been a crime. In the documentary about the show, Segel

811
00:42:05,040 --> 00:42:07,399
Speaker 1: explained that he and Franco were in the waiting room

812
00:42:07,520 --> 00:42:11,000
Speaker 1: of the audition at the same time on the same day.

813
00:42:11,320 --> 00:42:14,520
Speaker 1: Franco went in first, he went in second, and they

814
00:42:14,600 --> 00:42:17,160
Speaker 1: both walked to their cars that day with the gig,

815
00:42:17,280 --> 00:42:19,920
Speaker 1: which is adorable, And then he said he asked Franco

816
00:42:20,000 --> 00:42:22,120
Speaker 1: how that he saw their chemistry on the show developing.

817
00:42:22,160 --> 00:42:24,239
Speaker 1: He was like, yeah, you know, would like would I

818
00:42:24,320 --> 00:42:26,239
Speaker 1: be the goofy one and you will be the cool one?

819
00:42:26,320 --> 00:42:34,520
Speaker 1: And Franco just goes, yeah, that tracks. Yeah, It's really crazy.

820
00:42:34,680 --> 00:42:37,160
Speaker 1: After weeks of auditions when they couldn't find the right kids,

821
00:42:37,160 --> 00:42:40,480
Speaker 1: he had Jason Segel, James Franco, and apparently Linda Cardlini

822
00:42:40,520 --> 00:42:43,560
Speaker 1: all came in on the same day talk about striking

823
00:42:43,600 --> 00:42:46,120
Speaker 1: gold Man. I'm getting an astrologer on that one. Yeah,

824
00:42:47,160 --> 00:42:50,600
Speaker 1: Joe Flaherty as Harold were when we first began. Director

825
00:42:50,600 --> 00:42:53,239
Speaker 1: Brian Gordon told Vanity Fair Joe Flaherty was the star

826
00:42:53,320 --> 00:42:57,560
Speaker 1: in everybody's mind. He was the SCTV hero. Siegel said,

827
00:42:57,600 --> 00:43:00,319
Speaker 1: I just watched and learned doing scenes with him. He's

828
00:43:00,360 --> 00:43:02,600
Speaker 1: so fast. There's a lot of improv on all this

829
00:43:02,640 --> 00:43:04,880
Speaker 1: stuff we do with Judd. When you're young, you kind

830
00:43:04,920 --> 00:43:06,359
Speaker 1: of think, I don't know if this old man can

831
00:43:06,440 --> 00:43:08,880
Speaker 1: keep up, and then you're like, oh, this is the

832
00:43:08,880 --> 00:43:13,160
Speaker 1: guy who created this style. And of course Dave gruber Allen,

833
00:43:13,280 --> 00:43:16,480
Speaker 1: who plays Jeff Rosso the guidance counselor pulls out the guitar.

834
00:43:17,200 --> 00:43:20,919
Speaker 1: Oh man, what a tremendous I love that guy. Though

835
00:43:21,680 --> 00:43:24,640
Speaker 1: you never had a weird guidance counsel like that. Oh many.

836
00:43:24,680 --> 00:43:27,120
Speaker 1: But I just for something, I guess. I haven't finished

837
00:43:27,120 --> 00:43:29,560
Speaker 1: the series yet, but I I get, like me two

838
00:43:29,719 --> 00:43:33,200
Speaker 1: vibes from him. It's just like every guidance counsel. They're

839
00:43:33,200 --> 00:43:36,800
Speaker 1: all over Reachi, I had one to offer to explain

840
00:43:36,880 --> 00:43:43,160
Speaker 1: divorce to me. Your parents are together, my parents are well.

841
00:43:43,280 --> 00:43:46,240
Speaker 1: She was like, she just said that her name had changed,

842
00:43:46,400 --> 00:43:51,040
Speaker 1: and and I guess confusion momentarily registered on my my name,

843
00:43:51,440 --> 00:43:54,239
Speaker 1: and she was like, I'm getting divorced. Do you know

844
00:43:54,280 --> 00:43:59,480
Speaker 1: what divorces? It was like, I'm fifteen, like I'm peripherally

845
00:43:59,520 --> 00:44:03,399
Speaker 1: aware of the concept. Asked me what I wanted, like,

846
00:44:03,800 --> 00:44:07,840
Speaker 1: you know, professionally, just in life, and I waxed poetic

847
00:44:07,880 --> 00:44:11,160
Speaker 1: for several minutes on on the magic of creation and

848
00:44:11,239 --> 00:44:14,040
Speaker 1: how like it it truly is like magic. Where there

849
00:44:14,120 --> 00:44:16,640
Speaker 1: was once an empty page, there is now something that's

850
00:44:16,960 --> 00:44:20,439
Speaker 1: capable of bringing joy to people and making them laugh

851
00:44:20,520 --> 00:44:22,880
Speaker 1: or making them think, or making them feel something. And

852
00:44:23,320 --> 00:44:25,560
Speaker 1: I went on and on and on, and then I

853
00:44:25,600 --> 00:44:27,400
Speaker 1: was done, and he just kind of stared off in

854
00:44:27,440 --> 00:44:29,000
Speaker 1: the space for a minute, and he looked at me

855
00:44:29,040 --> 00:44:32,080
Speaker 1: and said, well, Jordan, you're setting yourself up to be

856
00:44:32,080 --> 00:44:38,720
Speaker 1: a very poor, hungry man. Oh Jesus. Anyway, Dave Gruber

857
00:44:38,760 --> 00:44:41,399
Speaker 1: Allen was maybe the most prepared for his role because

858
00:44:41,400 --> 00:44:43,560
Speaker 1: he had actually just come off working in special ed.

859
00:44:44,000 --> 00:44:47,239
Speaker 1: He was an education aid in Glendale, and he said,

860
00:44:47,280 --> 00:44:49,600
Speaker 1: he told the Washington Post, he had substitutes taught in

861
00:44:49,640 --> 00:44:52,040
Speaker 1: that same school district. So for me to have that

862
00:44:52,120 --> 00:44:55,160
Speaker 1: dynamic with high school age kids was easy. I wonder

863
00:44:55,200 --> 00:44:57,359
Speaker 1: if he pulled out the guitar. I assume cooled out

864
00:44:57,400 --> 00:45:03,120
Speaker 1: the guitar as you meditate on that. We'll be right

865
00:45:03,120 --> 00:45:17,520
Speaker 1: back with more too much information after these messages. And

866
00:45:17,560 --> 00:45:19,799
Speaker 1: then of course there are the bit players. Man, they

867
00:45:19,840 --> 00:45:22,880
Speaker 1: really stacked the bench with heavy hitters from some of

868
00:45:22,920 --> 00:45:25,680
Speaker 1: the most nostalgia inducing movies of all time. You got

869
00:45:25,680 --> 00:45:28,160
Speaker 1: the kid who played Squints in the sand Lot, Chauncey

870
00:45:28,200 --> 00:45:30,800
Speaker 1: La Party. Uh, he is the bully in the show.

871
00:45:31,120 --> 00:45:34,160
Speaker 1: You have Thomas F. Wilson a k A bit from

872
00:45:34,200 --> 00:45:37,799
Speaker 1: Back to the Future as the gym teacher. Uh. Joe

873
00:45:37,840 --> 00:45:40,279
Speaker 1: Flaherty Samon Lindsay's dad also had a bit part at

874
00:45:40,280 --> 00:45:41,719
Speaker 1: the end the Back of the Future too as a

875
00:45:41,719 --> 00:45:45,399
Speaker 1: Western Union man. It was Jason Schwartzman fresh office role

876
00:45:45,440 --> 00:45:48,800
Speaker 1: and Rushmore which not technically a nostalgia movie, but I

877
00:45:48,880 --> 00:45:52,279
Speaker 1: kind of count it. Uh, Shyla buff Rasheeda Jones, Ben

878
00:45:52,320 --> 00:45:55,520
Speaker 1: Foster and small pre fame roles, as well as Ben Stiller,

879
00:45:55,560 --> 00:45:58,960
Speaker 1: who we already mentioned who was already a star. And yeah,

880
00:45:59,000 --> 00:46:01,200
Speaker 1: I mean really, the show couldn't help would be true

881
00:46:01,200 --> 00:46:03,160
Speaker 1: to life since a lot of the casts were basically

882
00:46:03,239 --> 00:46:06,080
Speaker 1: playing out their adolescence. In real time while they were

883
00:46:06,120 --> 00:46:09,080
Speaker 1: working on this show, albeit you know, in an arrows

884
00:46:09,120 --> 00:46:12,000
Speaker 1: twenty years prior. Avatel said, the show is the kid's

885
00:46:12,160 --> 00:46:15,080
Speaker 1: entire life. It was their high school. They're literally going

886
00:46:15,120 --> 00:46:17,040
Speaker 1: to school in the set. They're falling in love on

887
00:46:17,080 --> 00:46:20,840
Speaker 1: the set. It's actually happening, and those relationships are still happening.

888
00:46:21,120 --> 00:46:24,680
Speaker 1: They're still close. I know. The stuff about how the

889
00:46:24,719 --> 00:46:27,759
Speaker 1: cast hung out the most heartwarming part of this to me.

890
00:46:28,640 --> 00:46:35,120
Speaker 1: Early on, Judd held a cast meeting Flowery, Flowery, Flowery,

891
00:46:35,480 --> 00:46:41,040
Speaker 1: Flowery fla leave all this in. This is the this

892
00:46:41,080 --> 00:46:43,520
Speaker 1: is goal. This is when people come to this show

893
00:46:43,600 --> 00:46:49,840
Speaker 1: for it. Early on, jud held a cast meeting Flayer.

894
00:46:49,880 --> 00:46:53,400
Speaker 1: We told Vanity fair So stumble on past that it

895
00:46:53,480 --> 00:46:56,800
Speaker 1: was something like, just cut every time he's in this story.

896
00:46:57,200 --> 00:46:59,279
Speaker 1: It was something like, this is your chance right now

897
00:46:59,320 --> 00:47:01,319
Speaker 1: as actors. But you have to concentrate on the show

898
00:47:01,400 --> 00:47:03,600
Speaker 1: and don't get caught up in any of this Hollywood stuff.

899
00:47:03,840 --> 00:47:06,200
Speaker 1: Don't start using drugs because we still have a show

900
00:47:06,239 --> 00:47:09,120
Speaker 1: to do here. And to their credit, the kids apparently

901
00:47:09,160 --> 00:47:11,360
Speaker 1: took that to heart. They would bond as a group.

902
00:47:11,400 --> 00:47:13,319
Speaker 1: They would meet up in their free time to work

903
00:47:13,320 --> 00:47:16,279
Speaker 1: on their material. Jason Segel told Vanity Fair, we would

904
00:47:16,320 --> 00:47:18,359
Speaker 1: get the script on a Friday and Seth and James

905
00:47:18,400 --> 00:47:20,520
Speaker 1: and I would get together at my house every Sunday

906
00:47:20,560 --> 00:47:23,279
Speaker 1: without fail and do the scenes over and over and

907
00:47:23,360 --> 00:47:26,400
Speaker 1: improve them and really think about them. We loved the

908
00:47:26,400 --> 00:47:30,680
Speaker 1: show and we took the opportunity really, really seriously. Brogan added,

909
00:47:30,840 --> 00:47:32,800
Speaker 1: we felt if we made the scenes better on the weekend,

910
00:47:32,960 --> 00:47:35,200
Speaker 1: if we came in with better jokes, they would film it,

911
00:47:35,440 --> 00:47:37,719
Speaker 1: and they would. And we didn't know it at the time,

912
00:47:37,760 --> 00:47:41,000
Speaker 1: but that was completely unindicative of probably every other show

913
00:47:41,040 --> 00:47:44,280
Speaker 1: that was on television. Um, given what we know about

914
00:47:44,280 --> 00:47:47,120
Speaker 1: Apatao and Figg's work since then, it is not shocking

915
00:47:47,120 --> 00:47:51,000
Speaker 1: that they encouraged improvising. Rogan told Vanity Fair he had

916
00:47:51,080 --> 00:47:54,080
Speaker 1: us improvised and rewrote the scripts to what we improvised.

917
00:47:54,280 --> 00:47:57,719
Speaker 1: We used to apatawis is great again. I don't think

918
00:47:57,719 --> 00:48:02,919
Speaker 1: he likes James Franco, know, because we used to say

919
00:48:03,160 --> 00:48:05,920
Speaker 1: two out of ten of Franco's improvs are good, but

920
00:48:06,000 --> 00:48:10,080
Speaker 1: those two are just historic. Uh. Segel told The l

921
00:48:10,120 --> 00:48:12,640
Speaker 1: A Times that Apatow helped encourage him to write for

922
00:48:12,680 --> 00:48:16,000
Speaker 1: Getting Sarah Marshall by tapping into that spirit. There was

923
00:48:16,040 --> 00:48:18,080
Speaker 1: a lot of improv on Freaks, he said, and he

924
00:48:18,120 --> 00:48:20,040
Speaker 1: said to me, if you can improv like this, then

925
00:48:20,080 --> 00:48:22,719
Speaker 1: you can write. Cardolini said. We used to go over

926
00:48:22,760 --> 00:48:25,760
Speaker 1: to Jason's house. He would have everybody over. She's talking

927
00:48:25,800 --> 00:48:29,120
Speaker 1: to TV Guide. We had lots of mutual friends, people

928
00:48:29,160 --> 00:48:31,319
Speaker 1: doing shows that were near where we were. I was

929
00:48:31,320 --> 00:48:33,000
Speaker 1: still in college and I lived with a bunch of

930
00:48:33,040 --> 00:48:35,200
Speaker 1: college roommates, so we would have people over to our

931
00:48:35,239 --> 00:48:38,480
Speaker 1: house too. I remember having people over for Christmas parties.

932
00:48:38,760 --> 00:48:40,919
Speaker 1: It's really fun when you work with funny people because

933
00:48:41,000 --> 00:48:43,760
Speaker 1: then you really are around some of the brightest, funniest minds,

934
00:48:43,800 --> 00:48:46,840
Speaker 1: and sitting there cracking jokes with them is fun. Busy

935
00:48:46,840 --> 00:48:49,280
Speaker 1: Phillips added in that same feature, we all got along

936
00:48:49,320 --> 00:48:52,000
Speaker 1: and hung out, especially like the Freaks, Jason and Linda

937
00:48:52,040 --> 00:48:54,360
Speaker 1: and Seth and me. We would go to Jason's apartment

938
00:48:54,400 --> 00:48:56,440
Speaker 1: and hang out after work, or we go to Swingers

939
00:48:56,440 --> 00:48:59,600
Speaker 1: and get breakfast burritos at like eleven at night. Oh,

940
00:48:59,719 --> 00:49:02,480
Speaker 1: I do love that, you know. Yeah? And there were

941
00:49:02,480 --> 00:49:04,920
Speaker 1: moments from the table read that we're ad lib that

942
00:49:04,960 --> 00:49:07,399
Speaker 1: were then incorporated into the script. There's a scene where

943
00:49:07,480 --> 00:49:10,160
Speaker 1: Lindsay's uptype friend Millie asks her if she knows what

944
00:49:10,239 --> 00:49:14,120
Speaker 1: Busy Phillips's character gets up to in the yearbook Dark Room. Answer.

945
00:49:14,920 --> 00:49:19,880
Speaker 1: Can't even say this with a straight face. She fornicates it.

946
00:49:19,880 --> 00:49:22,160
Speaker 1: It was a typo in the script, but the actors

947
00:49:22,200 --> 00:49:25,720
Speaker 1: playing her didn't know what fornicate means, so she delivered

948
00:49:25,760 --> 00:49:28,560
Speaker 1: it the way it was written anywhere. And there's footage

949
00:49:28,560 --> 00:49:31,000
Speaker 1: of this in that documentary I mentioned. The entire cast

950
00:49:31,080 --> 00:49:35,000
Speaker 1: just dies when she says it, and Jason Siegel, is

951
00:49:35,000 --> 00:49:38,240
Speaker 1: really cute, can see that she's confused why everyone's laughing,

952
00:49:38,280 --> 00:49:41,279
Speaker 1: and he very sweetly leans over and clues her in, like, oh,

953
00:49:41,320 --> 00:49:43,560
Speaker 1: there shouldn't be an it there, that's wrong, But you

954
00:49:43,560 --> 00:49:46,120
Speaker 1: can see she still doesn't get it, and it's adorable.

955
00:49:46,160 --> 00:49:48,680
Speaker 1: But yeah, that line made it into the script that typo.

956
00:49:49,600 --> 00:49:52,080
Speaker 1: I worked with this rock camp for like elementary school

957
00:49:52,120 --> 00:49:53,760
Speaker 1: kids once. I guess some of them were middle school

958
00:49:53,880 --> 00:50:00,239
Speaker 1: and they wanted to do Californication and uh they I

959
00:50:00,239 --> 00:50:02,720
Speaker 1: think we went through and took out like the limemout

960
00:50:02,719 --> 00:50:04,880
Speaker 1: porn stars or something. But they were singing the chorus

961
00:50:04,880 --> 00:50:07,200
Speaker 1: and the woman who ran the camp like pulled me

962
00:50:07,239 --> 00:50:09,719
Speaker 1: out upset. She was like you can't have them say that.

963
00:50:10,680 --> 00:50:13,719
Speaker 1: And I was like saying in an idiot. I was like,

964
00:50:13,760 --> 00:50:16,600
Speaker 1: say what. She was like, fornication. It's in the chorus,

965
00:50:16,920 --> 00:50:18,440
Speaker 1: and I was like, I don't think these kids know

966
00:50:18,480 --> 00:50:20,960
Speaker 1: what that means. So then I had to explain it

967
00:50:21,000 --> 00:50:23,520
Speaker 1: to them, which you can see them turning it over

968
00:50:23,520 --> 00:50:26,759
Speaker 1: in their minds, like oh, And I was like, just

969
00:50:26,840 --> 00:50:29,480
Speaker 1: make sure you're really enunciating it when you sing, so

970
00:50:29,520 --> 00:50:34,200
Speaker 1: you're saying California cation like a vacation, and they it's

971
00:50:34,200 --> 00:50:37,920
Speaker 1: just I was like, the damage has been done. Attention

972
00:50:37,960 --> 00:50:41,759
Speaker 1: to it. Yeah, uh oh. The kid's dynamic would play

973
00:50:41,800 --> 00:50:43,719
Speaker 1: out on the set in interesting ways and make it

974
00:50:43,719 --> 00:50:46,520
Speaker 1: into the show. Daily and Cardelini would rib each other

975
00:50:46,600 --> 00:50:48,560
Speaker 1: like they were real life brother and sister even when

976
00:50:48,560 --> 00:50:51,880
Speaker 1: they weren't on camera. Yeah. Daily said in the Vanity

977
00:50:51,920 --> 00:50:54,040
Speaker 1: Fair piece, I probably had a bit of a crush

978
00:50:54,080 --> 00:50:56,160
Speaker 1: on her too, which you don't want to hear when

979
00:50:56,160 --> 00:50:58,680
Speaker 1: you're playing brother and sister. But it's hard not to

980
00:50:58,680 --> 00:51:02,200
Speaker 1: have a crush on Lynda Cardlia Yeah. And um, you know,

981
00:51:02,520 --> 00:51:04,640
Speaker 1: he probably used some of that as fuel for his

982
00:51:04,760 --> 00:51:07,920
Speaker 1: interactions with Jason Siegal because Jason Siegal and Linda Cardlini

983
00:51:07,960 --> 00:51:11,400
Speaker 1: were actually dating. They dated for several years. Uh and

984
00:51:11,600 --> 00:51:14,480
Speaker 1: when when he Forgetting Sarah Marshall came out, he was

985
00:51:14,480 --> 00:51:16,800
Speaker 1: feeling questions about whether or not it was his breakup

986
00:51:16,800 --> 00:51:19,520
Speaker 1: with Linda Cardlini that inspired that movie to the l

987
00:51:19,520 --> 00:51:21,480
Speaker 1: a Times in two thousand eight and if on interview

988
00:51:21,520 --> 00:51:24,080
Speaker 1: he said, I was still very much child then, and

989
00:51:24,080 --> 00:51:26,239
Speaker 1: this was more of an amalgamation of a lot of

990
00:51:26,239 --> 00:51:29,319
Speaker 1: different relationships and breakups that I've had. People are bound

991
00:51:29,360 --> 00:51:31,800
Speaker 1: to talk, but Linda was a great girlfriend, which is

992
00:51:31,880 --> 00:51:35,480
Speaker 1: so sweet. And then because of the trio of Daily

993
00:51:35,640 --> 00:51:38,359
Speaker 1: and Starr and Levine, basically that two of them would

994
00:51:38,360 --> 00:51:40,799
Speaker 1: pair off and hang out while the other one was unavailable,

995
00:51:41,040 --> 00:51:43,840
Speaker 1: and then that would forge like resentments that always happens

996
00:51:43,840 --> 00:51:45,840
Speaker 1: when someone's the odd person out in friendship, and that

997
00:51:45,840 --> 00:51:49,480
Speaker 1: would inform their dynamic. Um and Dailey also told Vulture,

998
00:51:49,640 --> 00:51:51,360
Speaker 1: any girl we got to do a scene with, we

999
00:51:51,440 --> 00:51:53,440
Speaker 1: all fell in love with her at some point or another.

1000
00:51:53,600 --> 00:51:55,440
Speaker 1: I recall there being a lot of tension between the

1001
00:51:55,440 --> 00:51:58,719
Speaker 1: Geeks over the girls constantly. There was a girl both

1002
00:51:58,760 --> 00:52:01,040
Speaker 1: Martin and Sam liked, and I guess Sam said something

1003
00:52:01,080 --> 00:52:03,800
Speaker 1: to her that was embarrassing to Martin. So Martin resented

1004
00:52:03,840 --> 00:52:06,799
Speaker 1: Sam for certain things. Sam resented Martin for certain things.

1005
00:52:07,080 --> 00:52:11,120
Speaker 1: I resented them both for being able to drive. There

1006
00:52:11,120 --> 00:52:14,319
Speaker 1: were a lot of civil wars going on. I love that,

1007
00:52:15,440 --> 00:52:17,879
Speaker 1: oh man. I mean obviously, the chemistry of the cast

1008
00:52:18,000 --> 00:52:21,000
Speaker 1: is a crucial component of the show's success. But the

1009
00:52:21,080 --> 00:52:23,520
Speaker 1: secret ingredient, as you mentioned at the top of the episode,

1010
00:52:23,719 --> 00:52:28,200
Speaker 1: is trauma. Damn it. Yes, the willingness of the writers

1011
00:52:28,239 --> 00:52:30,560
Speaker 1: to plumb the depths of their souls to excavate the

1012
00:52:30,560 --> 00:52:34,399
Speaker 1: most painful childhood memories and humiliations. That's truly what made

1013
00:52:34,400 --> 00:52:37,480
Speaker 1: this show tick, and hopefully it was cathartic for them

1014
00:52:37,480 --> 00:52:39,880
Speaker 1: to share these stories because, as we talked about earlier,

1015
00:52:39,920 --> 00:52:42,720
Speaker 1: more often than not other people watching had similar tales

1016
00:52:42,719 --> 00:52:46,040
Speaker 1: of woe. Busy Phillips had a faux pitch for this show,

1017
00:52:46,080 --> 00:52:48,240
Speaker 1: and one of the interviews I thought was really funny.

1018
00:52:48,239 --> 00:52:50,240
Speaker 1: Tune in. Every week, we're gonna show you a version

1019
00:52:50,239 --> 00:52:52,240
Speaker 1: of events that you probably went through in high school.

1020
00:52:52,400 --> 00:52:54,399
Speaker 1: We're gonna help you laugh about it. You might catch

1021
00:52:54,480 --> 00:52:56,399
Speaker 1: some feelings about it, and at the end of the day,

1022
00:52:56,560 --> 00:52:58,759
Speaker 1: maybe it'll help us move on from the pain of

1023
00:52:58,840 --> 00:53:01,600
Speaker 1: high school, which Honestly, they should have just used that

1024
00:53:01,680 --> 00:53:03,960
Speaker 1: as like the ad pitch, maybe the show would have

1025
00:53:04,040 --> 00:53:06,880
Speaker 1: last the one season. Uh. Some of the best loved

1026
00:53:06,920 --> 00:53:09,760
Speaker 1: moments on the show were taken directly from the lives

1027
00:53:09,800 --> 00:53:13,800
Speaker 1: of the writers and creators. For Judd Apatow, the most poignant,

1028
00:53:13,840 --> 00:53:16,160
Speaker 1: and he says, the most personal scene that has ever

1029
00:53:16,200 --> 00:53:19,560
Speaker 1: done is the scene where Bill comes home from school

1030
00:53:19,719 --> 00:53:22,279
Speaker 1: and he's being raised by a single mom and he's

1031
00:53:22,320 --> 00:53:24,920
Speaker 1: basically a latchkey kid. He lets himself into the house,

1032
00:53:25,160 --> 00:53:27,840
Speaker 1: takes a few craft singles out of an otherwise empty fridge,

1033
00:53:27,880 --> 00:53:30,799
Speaker 1: and starts making a grilled cheese sandwich and he looks

1034
00:53:30,840 --> 00:53:35,520
Speaker 1: extremely lonely, and the Who's I'm One from Quadraphenia is

1035
00:53:35,520 --> 00:53:38,319
Speaker 1: playing in the background, with Pete Townsend singing more full

1036
00:53:38,400 --> 00:53:41,120
Speaker 1: lines like every year is the same and I feel

1037
00:53:41,120 --> 00:53:44,239
Speaker 1: it again, I'm a loser, no chance to win, and

1038
00:53:44,280 --> 00:53:47,320
Speaker 1: then the triumphant chorus kicks in just as Bill settles

1039
00:53:47,360 --> 00:53:49,520
Speaker 1: in in front of the TV and starts watching Gary

1040
00:53:49,560 --> 00:53:52,440
Speaker 1: Schandling doing stand up on The Dinah Shore Show, and

1041
00:53:52,480 --> 00:53:55,359
Speaker 1: he's just laughing away the pain and loneliness of being

1042
00:53:55,400 --> 00:53:58,680
Speaker 1: a kid, and also the pain of not having a dad.

1043
00:53:59,080 --> 00:54:01,839
Speaker 1: And Juttapata said this was very much his experience as

1044
00:54:01,880 --> 00:54:04,560
Speaker 1: a kid growing up in a divorced household, where these

1045
00:54:04,600 --> 00:54:07,719
Speaker 1: comedians more or less became his friends. I think he

1046
00:54:07,760 --> 00:54:10,080
Speaker 1: went on the work with Garry Shandling too. Uh. The

1047
00:54:10,120 --> 00:54:12,480
Speaker 1: funny thing about shooting this scene is that they got

1048
00:54:12,520 --> 00:54:15,520
Speaker 1: the kid playing Bill to laugh by having Judd Apatow

1049
00:54:15,600 --> 00:54:18,920
Speaker 1: and another writer's stand just behind the camera telling just

1050
00:54:19,080 --> 00:54:24,040
Speaker 1: incredibly dirty, aristocrat level dirty jokes. Uh. And I guess

1051
00:54:24,080 --> 00:54:26,359
Speaker 1: they did the same thing on the episode where Sam

1052
00:54:26,440 --> 00:54:29,279
Speaker 1: watches a porn and gets freaked out by sex, so

1053
00:54:29,360 --> 00:54:31,720
Speaker 1: he goes to his gym teacher, and the gym teacher

1054
00:54:31,760 --> 00:54:34,120
Speaker 1: takes him into his office and gives them what we

1055
00:54:34,239 --> 00:54:36,760
Speaker 1: can't hear but we imagine to be a very graphic

1056
00:54:37,120 --> 00:54:41,520
Speaker 1: lowdown and Uh. John Francis Daily's face just goes from

1057
00:54:42,000 --> 00:54:45,239
Speaker 1: bewilderment to laughter and back again over the course of

1058
00:54:45,320 --> 00:54:48,960
Speaker 1: ninety seconds. But the actor playing the gym teacher, Thomas F. Wilson,

1059
00:54:49,440 --> 00:54:51,440
Speaker 1: is just telling him dirty jokes all the time. They

1060
00:54:51,520 --> 00:54:55,640
Speaker 1: get these different facial responses. I thought it was because

1061
00:54:55,680 --> 00:54:58,160
Speaker 1: they didn't. He didn't get he didn't think Garry Shandling

1062
00:54:58,239 --> 00:55:00,160
Speaker 1: was funny. He was like, I'm supposed to be laughing this.

1063
00:55:00,560 --> 00:55:02,879
Speaker 1: Oh well, maybe that's part of it too, But yeah,

1064
00:55:04,160 --> 00:55:09,520
Speaker 1: another incident ripped from the personal lives of these poor creators. Uh.

1065
00:55:09,719 --> 00:55:12,120
Speaker 1: Paul Fiege admitted that the whole being freaked out by

1066
00:55:12,160 --> 00:55:14,359
Speaker 1: the mechanics of sex after seeing a poor and way

1067
00:55:14,440 --> 00:55:17,479
Speaker 1: too young thing was something that actually occurred in his life,

1068
00:55:17,840 --> 00:55:20,040
Speaker 1: and so did another scene showing the pain of being

1069
00:55:20,080 --> 00:55:23,239
Speaker 1: a late bloomer, the bit where the school's making kids

1070
00:55:23,320 --> 00:55:26,480
Speaker 1: take showers after gym class and Sam doesn't want to

1071
00:55:26,520 --> 00:55:28,839
Speaker 1: get naked in front of his friends at school, which

1072
00:55:29,520 --> 00:55:32,080
Speaker 1: I find to be a totally reasonable thing. I have

1073
00:55:32,360 --> 00:55:34,520
Speaker 1: no memory of people at my school using the showers

1074
00:55:34,600 --> 00:55:38,919
Speaker 1: after gym class. Really. Yeah. I also, I'm pretty sure

1075
00:55:39,320 --> 00:55:41,719
Speaker 1: I never broke a sweat and gym because I just

1076
00:55:42,480 --> 00:55:45,359
Speaker 1: stood there and I hope the ball never came to me. Um.

1077
00:55:45,840 --> 00:55:47,279
Speaker 1: I think I usually rigged it, so it was like

1078
00:55:47,320 --> 00:55:49,759
Speaker 1: the last class of the day for me too. But yeah, no,

1079
00:55:49,880 --> 00:55:51,880
Speaker 1: I don't remember that being a thing at my school,

1080
00:55:53,120 --> 00:55:57,680
Speaker 1: and an unusually smelly school, I guess. But yeah, Paul

1081
00:55:57,719 --> 00:56:00,759
Speaker 1: fig was forced to take a shower, and it was

1082
00:56:00,880 --> 00:56:04,279
Speaker 1: only marginally less traumatic than Sam getting locked out of

1083
00:56:04,320 --> 00:56:06,759
Speaker 1: the locker room naked. He told the a V. Club.

1084
00:56:06,800 --> 00:56:08,520
Speaker 1: But when I finally got forced to take a shower.

1085
00:56:08,600 --> 00:56:11,120
Speaker 1: When I finally went in, all the guys were playing

1086
00:56:11,200 --> 00:56:13,920
Speaker 1: soap hockey. They were all running around nude. It was

1087
00:56:13,960 --> 00:56:16,160
Speaker 1: the weirdest thing. And when they saw me, they knew

1088
00:56:16,200 --> 00:56:17,960
Speaker 1: I didn't want to take a shower, and they all

1089
00:56:18,040 --> 00:56:21,320
Speaker 1: tackled me. They all dog piled on top of me nude.

1090
00:56:21,680 --> 00:56:23,799
Speaker 1: It was the most traumatic thing I've ever been through

1091
00:56:23,800 --> 00:56:26,000
Speaker 1: in my life. We knew, really on we couldn't do

1092
00:56:26,120 --> 00:56:28,240
Speaker 1: that on the show because you'd be arrested for shooting

1093
00:56:28,239 --> 00:56:30,160
Speaker 1: a scene like that. So that's when it kind of

1094
00:56:30,200 --> 00:56:32,560
Speaker 1: morphed into a scene where when Sam finally does it,

1095
00:56:32,800 --> 00:56:34,879
Speaker 1: they make him run around nude. That was the TV

1096
00:56:35,040 --> 00:56:40,640
Speaker 1: acceptable version of what we could do. That's horrify Yeah,

1097
00:56:41,080 --> 00:56:46,120
Speaker 1: across the board. Yeah uh. Paul fig is also responsible

1098
00:56:46,200 --> 00:56:48,480
Speaker 1: for the opening of the Halloween episode. But the geeks

1099
00:56:48,480 --> 00:56:50,600
Speaker 1: are gathered around the kitchen table with all sorts of

1100
00:56:50,680 --> 00:56:54,080
Speaker 1: disgusting food items and a blender, and Bill says, I'll

1101
00:56:54,080 --> 00:56:57,759
Speaker 1: eat anything for ten dollars. Did you never do that

1102
00:56:58,000 --> 00:57:02,399
Speaker 1: in middle school? Dude? We had the disgusting contest all

1103
00:57:02,480 --> 00:57:05,480
Speaker 1: the time. You just take the garbage pizza and like

1104
00:57:06,480 --> 00:57:10,120
Speaker 1: you know, liquefied peaches, all that crap they're allowed to

1105
00:57:10,200 --> 00:57:12,680
Speaker 1: serve kids, and just like mash it into one thing

1106
00:57:12,800 --> 00:57:14,279
Speaker 1: and then just like try and get each other to

1107
00:57:14,320 --> 00:57:17,400
Speaker 1: eat it. I can't believe you never did that. I

1108
00:57:17,520 --> 00:57:21,760
Speaker 1: was never. No. I was more into like chocolate milk

1109
00:57:21,840 --> 00:57:25,200
Speaker 1: and mashed potatoes and like and then like grind it

1110
00:57:25,280 --> 00:57:28,800
Speaker 1: into a paste and be like, I eat this turkey piece.

1111
00:57:29,080 --> 00:57:32,280
Speaker 1: Just I guess I'm remembering very specific thanksgiving me open

1112
00:57:32,360 --> 00:57:36,440
Speaker 1: because it was usually grosser than that, like like a

1113
00:57:36,800 --> 00:57:39,520
Speaker 1: pixie sticks, like sprinkled sugar in there, and to make

1114
00:57:39,560 --> 00:57:42,720
Speaker 1: it even more disgusting, Oh god, yeah, then just send

1115
00:57:42,800 --> 00:57:44,600
Speaker 1: him running for the bathroom when they couldn't when they

1116
00:57:44,600 --> 00:57:47,680
Speaker 1: couldn't hold it down. How did you fare doing that?

1117
00:57:48,280 --> 00:57:51,400
Speaker 1: Or were you the ones I was or I made

1118
00:57:51,440 --> 00:57:53,360
Speaker 1: the concoction. I was never the person that eating it.

1119
00:57:55,880 --> 00:58:00,560
Speaker 1: Surely you know me better? Ye? Yes, yes, but I

1120
00:58:00,600 --> 00:58:04,400
Speaker 1: guess Paul fig Uh, much like John Francis Daily, he

1121
00:58:04,560 --> 00:58:07,520
Speaker 1: believed in Santa until he was fairly old, and the

1122
00:58:07,640 --> 00:58:09,960
Speaker 1: year that he found out that Santa wasn't real, he

1123
00:58:10,080 --> 00:58:12,840
Speaker 1: got so mad that he thought, Man, if it's dad,

1124
00:58:13,080 --> 00:58:15,600
Speaker 1: I'm gonna screw him over. I'm gonna leave him something

1125
00:58:15,680 --> 00:58:18,240
Speaker 1: other than milk. I'm gonna make him this terrible, toxic

1126
00:58:18,400 --> 00:58:21,160
Speaker 1: brew for my dad that will taste awful and make

1127
00:58:21,240 --> 00:58:24,680
Speaker 1: him throw up. And he's telling this story to the

1128
00:58:24,840 --> 00:58:27,200
Speaker 1: V club. So I started doing that stuff with a blender.

1129
00:58:27,240 --> 00:58:29,480
Speaker 1: I'm putting all this stuff in thinking it was really fun,

1130
00:58:29,880 --> 00:58:31,600
Speaker 1: and then I just started crying in the middle of

1131
00:58:31,680 --> 00:58:34,040
Speaker 1: it because it smelled so terrible, and I was like,

1132
00:58:34,240 --> 00:58:36,400
Speaker 1: what am I doing to my dad? So that was

1133
00:58:36,480 --> 00:58:38,439
Speaker 1: the origin of mixing in a bunch of crap into

1134
00:58:38,480 --> 00:58:42,040
Speaker 1: the planter, and then I mentioned this at the top

1135
00:58:42,080 --> 00:58:44,240
Speaker 1: of the episode. The final scene of the pilot, when

1136
00:58:44,360 --> 00:58:47,760
Speaker 1: Sam dances with his crush two Sticks, His cum sail

1137
00:58:47,840 --> 00:58:50,360
Speaker 1: away is based on a moment that occurred with jet

1138
00:58:50,480 --> 00:58:53,840
Speaker 1: Apataw when he delayed asking a girl to dance until

1139
00:58:53,880 --> 00:58:57,280
Speaker 1: the very day of said dance. Obviously, the lucky lady

1140
00:58:57,360 --> 00:58:59,840
Speaker 1: had a date at this point, but just like Cindy

1141
00:59:00,000 --> 00:59:03,000
Speaker 1: Anders in Freaking Geeks, Shopper to save Judd to dance,

1142
00:59:03,080 --> 00:59:06,800
Speaker 1: but unfortunately Judd waited until well after the slow song

1143
00:59:06,880 --> 00:59:08,919
Speaker 1: had already started to work up the courage to ask

1144
00:59:09,000 --> 00:59:11,560
Speaker 1: this girl to dance. He said. It was Human Nature

1145
00:59:11,600 --> 00:59:14,120
Speaker 1: by Michael Jackson. And you know, as I said, the

1146
00:59:14,200 --> 00:59:15,960
Speaker 1: only songs that are safe to dance too if you're

1147
00:59:16,000 --> 00:59:19,000
Speaker 1: socially in and actually can't dance are the slow songs.

1148
00:59:19,920 --> 00:59:21,600
Speaker 1: But by the time he actually got up to and

1149
00:59:21,680 --> 00:59:23,360
Speaker 1: asked for to dance, the song was over in like

1150
00:59:23,480 --> 00:59:26,240
Speaker 1: thirty seconds, and then they switched to something up tempo

1151
00:59:26,360 --> 00:59:28,360
Speaker 1: like Boogie Nights and he had to just go run

1152
00:59:28,440 --> 00:59:30,840
Speaker 1: for cover. As he later said, it was one of

1153
00:59:30,880 --> 00:59:33,120
Speaker 1: the most embarrassing moments in my high school career, and

1154
00:59:33,200 --> 00:59:35,680
Speaker 1: I was sad I didn't get to slow dance for

1155
00:59:35,800 --> 00:59:38,120
Speaker 1: the show. They were trying to get Stairway to Heaven,

1156
00:59:38,200 --> 00:59:44,360
Speaker 1: which I've personally been humiliated during that real bad I

1157
00:59:44,520 --> 00:59:46,600
Speaker 1: I told I've told this story several times in the show.

1158
00:59:46,680 --> 00:59:49,040
Speaker 1: I was more or less dumped on the dance floor

1159
00:59:49,080 --> 00:59:54,720
Speaker 1: because my dancing was so terrible. It happens, well, but

1160
00:59:54,880 --> 00:59:57,880
Speaker 1: they couldn't afford led Zeppelin, Uh so they were gonna

1161
00:59:57,880 --> 01:00:02,600
Speaker 1: go with Jay Giles Southside Shuff I don't really understand.

1162
01:00:03,320 --> 01:00:06,160
Speaker 1: But then they came up with com sail Away and

1163
01:00:06,280 --> 01:00:09,040
Speaker 1: after they submitted a personal request to Dennis De Young

1164
01:00:09,160 --> 01:00:11,040
Speaker 1: from sticks, but didn't they They did it with new

1165
01:00:11,160 --> 01:00:12,960
Speaker 1: I mean, we'll get to the music, but like, how

1166
01:00:13,040 --> 01:00:17,200
Speaker 1: many handwritten letters were they wheedling from these classic rock icons.

1167
01:00:17,560 --> 01:00:19,840
Speaker 1: This had like a like the little match Stick girl,

1168
01:00:20,000 --> 01:00:23,600
Speaker 1: just like chained to a desk, writing like please Billy Joel,

1169
01:00:23,680 --> 01:00:27,880
Speaker 1: can I use this at least? Yeah? I used this?

1170
01:00:28,000 --> 01:00:31,440
Speaker 1: Side three deep cut in this television show, feeds over

1171
01:00:31,640 --> 01:00:35,080
Speaker 1: cracking the whip, like now do Neil, now right, Dennis

1172
01:00:35,160 --> 01:00:41,840
Speaker 1: de Young put your tears into it. That's a fun bit, Okay,

1173
01:00:42,240 --> 01:00:46,600
Speaker 1: continuing the test. Oh yeah, this is great. There's at

1174
01:00:46,600 --> 01:00:49,000
Speaker 1: the end of the episode where Lindsay helps James Franco

1175
01:00:49,160 --> 01:00:51,720
Speaker 1: cheat and gets caught. She wants to tell the truth

1176
01:00:51,800 --> 01:00:54,720
Speaker 1: and admit it, and James Franco tells this heartfelt, sob

1177
01:00:54,880 --> 01:00:56,960
Speaker 1: story that wins her over about you know, you know

1178
01:00:57,040 --> 01:00:59,200
Speaker 1: what it's like being called dumb when you're eleven years old.

1179
01:00:59,280 --> 01:01:01,960
Speaker 1: It's really like and as I was watching this episode,

1180
01:01:02,000 --> 01:01:04,680
Speaker 1: I texted you in the middle of that scene, being

1181
01:01:04,760 --> 01:01:08,680
Speaker 1: like Jesus Christ, this show goes hard. And then when

1182
01:01:08,720 --> 01:01:12,040
Speaker 1: they're in the disciplinary committee meeting, he tells the identical

1183
01:01:12,160 --> 01:01:17,200
Speaker 1: sob story to the assembled crew of administrators, and Lindsay

1184
01:01:17,280 --> 01:01:20,080
Speaker 1: realizes that it's all an act and she's been conned,

1185
01:01:20,240 --> 01:01:23,320
Speaker 1: and she starts to laugh hysterically. And I texted you, oh,

1186
01:01:24,080 --> 01:01:31,919
Speaker 1: oh yeah. Franco's approach, this impassioned speech. It's I guess,

1187
01:01:31,960 --> 01:01:34,880
Speaker 1: based on something that Owen Wilson once did. I guess

1188
01:01:34,920 --> 01:01:37,560
Speaker 1: he told Judd atality gotten in trouble for something similar

1189
01:01:37,640 --> 01:01:39,840
Speaker 1: in high school. Maybe not high school, but at some

1190
01:01:39,920 --> 01:01:41,720
Speaker 1: point in school, and to get out of it, he

1191
01:01:41,880 --> 01:01:45,760
Speaker 1: just started to pretend to cry in the office. It's

1192
01:01:45,840 --> 01:01:49,680
Speaker 1: like really exaggerated sobbing took AOD way to diffuse people

1193
01:01:49,760 --> 01:01:53,280
Speaker 1: being mad at you. Yeah, hell yeah, I'm amazed. I

1194
01:01:53,360 --> 01:01:56,920
Speaker 1: never did that. I was never problem at any h.

1195
01:01:58,600 --> 01:02:03,320
Speaker 1: Tried it at home, kids and adults. Next time someone's Maddie,

1196
01:02:03,360 --> 01:02:05,840
Speaker 1: you just start weeping. Let's say we don't have any

1197
01:02:05,880 --> 01:02:11,600
Speaker 1: take on value for this show. Uh yeah, that's once

1198
01:02:11,680 --> 01:02:13,920
Speaker 1: this gets If this gets canceled, I'm pivoting to an

1199
01:02:13,960 --> 01:02:18,320
Speaker 1: influencer imag using capitalizing on the cloud. I have a

1200
01:02:18,400 --> 01:02:21,240
Speaker 1: masked giving people bad advice of the context of a

1201
01:02:21,560 --> 01:02:25,240
Speaker 1: pop culture podcast. The Kegar Next, Oh yeah, this is

1202
01:02:25,320 --> 01:02:27,320
Speaker 1: one of my favorite scenes. It's from the second episode

1203
01:02:27,400 --> 01:02:30,160
Speaker 1: where Lindsay and Sam's parents, the Weirds, go out of

1204
01:02:30,240 --> 01:02:32,800
Speaker 1: town and Lindsey lets the freaks throw a party at

1205
01:02:32,840 --> 01:02:35,400
Speaker 1: their house, but Sam and the geeks switch out the

1206
01:02:35,480 --> 01:02:39,200
Speaker 1: keg with non alcoholic beer. That's such a brilliant plot point.

1207
01:02:39,720 --> 01:02:42,320
Speaker 1: I thought it was surely just a goofy comedic premise,

1208
01:02:42,600 --> 01:02:45,480
Speaker 1: but apparently it's based on a real incident where the

1209
01:02:45,640 --> 01:02:50,520
Speaker 1: awesomey named writer on the show, j Elvis Weinstein, he

1210
01:02:50,760 --> 01:02:53,480
Speaker 1: switched the kegs at a party in high school because

1211
01:02:53,520 --> 01:02:56,760
Speaker 1: he basically wanted to make people look stupid. He told

1212
01:02:56,840 --> 01:02:59,440
Speaker 1: TV Guide, My idea was much more sort of a

1213
01:02:59,520 --> 01:03:01,760
Speaker 1: catcher in aw eyes sort of thing. And then everyone's

1214
01:03:01,760 --> 01:03:04,400
Speaker 1: a phony and we wanted to do this experiment where

1215
01:03:04,440 --> 01:03:07,120
Speaker 1: we entrapped them at a party, but enough people brought

1216
01:03:07,160 --> 01:03:11,640
Speaker 1: their own liquor that the experiment failed. And the funny

1217
01:03:11,680 --> 01:03:14,400
Speaker 1: thing is the qud who played Bill the Geek, Martin Starr,

1218
01:03:14,600 --> 01:03:18,960
Speaker 1: who you know, the guy was off writing snuff films. Yeah,

1219
01:03:19,080 --> 01:03:22,000
Speaker 1: working out the gym with him. Uh. He apparently arrived

1220
01:03:22,160 --> 01:03:24,680
Speaker 1: hours late to the shoot because he had been working

1221
01:03:24,720 --> 01:03:27,320
Speaker 1: on a short film with some usc film kids the

1222
01:03:27,440 --> 01:03:29,640
Speaker 1: night before. And been out partying even though he was

1223
01:03:29,760 --> 01:03:32,520
Speaker 1: like sixteen. Uh and this was the first episode that

1224
01:03:32,520 --> 01:03:34,880
Speaker 1: they were shooting after the pilot was picked up and

1225
01:03:35,080 --> 01:03:38,280
Speaker 1: Judd Apata was pissed. He was so mad that this

1226
01:03:38,400 --> 01:03:40,560
Speaker 1: kid was late that they threatened to replace him with

1227
01:03:40,600 --> 01:03:44,040
Speaker 1: the kid who played the geek guru Harris. He said

1228
01:03:44,080 --> 01:03:47,000
Speaker 1: it on the set. He said it to Daily and Levine.

1229
01:03:47,080 --> 01:03:49,000
Speaker 1: He was like, I hope you guys like acting with

1230
01:03:49,120 --> 01:03:54,440
Speaker 1: this other person. Jeta Apata does not come across especially

1231
01:03:54,480 --> 01:03:56,120
Speaker 1: well in a lot of those oral histories. He just

1232
01:03:56,160 --> 01:03:58,880
Speaker 1: sounds like he was saying having shouting matches all the time,

1233
01:03:58,960 --> 01:04:02,080
Speaker 1: and just like I think Fig says later on, he

1234
01:04:02,160 --> 01:04:06,240
Speaker 1: was a streamer. The beer they used in that scene

1235
01:04:06,320 --> 01:04:08,680
Speaker 1: was apparently cream soda, which all the kids had the

1236
01:04:08,720 --> 01:04:11,920
Speaker 1: pound and Lynda Cardelini later said afterwards, I was sick

1237
01:04:12,000 --> 01:04:13,840
Speaker 1: to my stomach. I don't think I've had a cream

1238
01:04:13,920 --> 01:04:16,640
Speaker 1: soda since I haven't had a cream soda in twenty years.

1239
01:04:17,400 --> 01:04:22,520
Speaker 1: Mm hmm. I love Linda Cardelini, as you said, impossible

1240
01:04:22,640 --> 01:04:25,600
Speaker 1: to impossible to not fall in love with her, all right,

1241
01:04:25,800 --> 01:04:28,840
Speaker 1: As we alluded to earlier, my favorite part of this

1242
01:04:28,960 --> 01:04:32,040
Speaker 1: the music the shows, but the music used to this

1243
01:04:32,920 --> 01:04:39,000
Speaker 1: nuts insane, just and and from the outset from Seagulls Characters, Rush,

1244
01:04:39,080 --> 01:04:43,880
Speaker 1: Obsession and Who's subsequently heart punching Lee depressing audition for

1245
01:04:43,960 --> 01:04:46,720
Speaker 1: a local band. That's the part I identified with the

1246
01:04:46,760 --> 01:04:48,439
Speaker 1: most to the scene in which he and Milly duet

1247
01:04:48,560 --> 01:04:51,520
Speaker 1: on Jesus is just all right with me? Uh? Fig

1248
01:04:51,560 --> 01:04:53,520
Speaker 1: Win in music baked into the show's d n a

1249
01:04:53,800 --> 01:04:56,720
Speaker 1: part of the bible that he prepared as the show's omnibus,

1250
01:04:56,800 --> 01:04:59,160
Speaker 1: included a list of bands with the note this is

1251
01:04:59,160 --> 01:05:01,520
Speaker 1: a freak band, this is a geek band, or this

1252
01:05:01,680 --> 01:05:03,680
Speaker 1: is a band they both would like. Let's do a

1253
01:05:03,680 --> 01:05:06,200
Speaker 1: little lightning around Jordan's Yes, you name a band and

1254
01:05:06,320 --> 01:05:08,080
Speaker 1: I'll see if I can get it in one of

1255
01:05:08,120 --> 01:05:11,840
Speaker 1: those three buckets. Okay, here we go, ready, Yeah, alright.

1256
01:05:11,920 --> 01:05:15,600
Speaker 1: This is from Paul Figg's show Bible. The categories are

1257
01:05:15,680 --> 01:05:17,360
Speaker 1: is it freaks? Is it geeks? Or is it freaks

1258
01:05:17,400 --> 01:05:22,640
Speaker 1: and geeks? Okay? Wings Paul McCartney and Wings, Oh, geeks

1259
01:05:23,080 --> 01:05:29,560
Speaker 1: and some freaks okay yeah, meat loaf mm hmm, both

1260
01:05:29,960 --> 01:05:34,120
Speaker 1: just geeks. That doesn't scam right, It seems pretty freaks

1261
01:05:34,160 --> 01:05:37,040
Speaker 1: to me. Yeah, you smoked weed? At any point in

1262
01:05:37,080 --> 01:05:38,800
Speaker 1: your life you have picked up that out of hell

1263
01:05:38,880 --> 01:05:41,760
Speaker 1: and been like this cover of rules. Check this out,

1264
01:05:42,080 --> 01:05:45,919
Speaker 1: genesis geeks. Although this is oh yeah, because I lied.

1265
01:05:46,000 --> 01:05:48,440
Speaker 1: This is Peter Gabriel ol. This is lamb lazed down

1266
01:05:48,480 --> 01:05:54,360
Speaker 1: on Broadway air as. This one's a tricky one, Fleetwood

1267
01:05:55,640 --> 01:06:01,560
Speaker 1: both I am sucking in this. It's geeks and freak girls.

1268
01:06:01,720 --> 01:06:09,640
Speaker 1: It specifies, Oh yeah, okay, sure, okay, let's say, oh,

1269
01:06:09,680 --> 01:06:13,040
Speaker 1: this one's easy. Bluish are called oh yeah, freaks, bluish

1270
01:06:13,040 --> 01:06:19,760
Speaker 1: are called shreds. This one okay, the police m uh freaks,

1271
01:06:20,400 --> 01:06:23,640
Speaker 1: that's it says, freaks and a few geeks, which surprised me.

1272
01:06:24,160 --> 01:06:27,960
Speaker 1: Eighty would have been like when did they really break

1273
01:06:29,040 --> 01:06:32,200
Speaker 1: seventy nine? I want to say, okay, so they were

1274
01:06:32,320 --> 01:06:37,600
Speaker 1: very new. Yeah, keep going, Jackson Brown. That's gotta be

1275
01:06:37,680 --> 01:06:40,320
Speaker 1: geeks and freaks who smoke a lot of pot. Oh

1276
01:06:40,440 --> 01:06:47,040
Speaker 1: yeah that tracks uh oh yeah, because police don't stand

1277
01:06:47,080 --> 01:06:49,800
Speaker 1: so close to me. Would have been was in September,

1278
01:06:50,000 --> 01:06:53,920
Speaker 1: so yeah, that they would have had geek appeal. Whatever,

1279
01:06:54,160 --> 01:07:00,120
Speaker 1: keep going, Bob seeger Oh freaks, geeks, some freaks. I

1280
01:07:00,320 --> 01:07:11,200
Speaker 1: challenge that that come gone, especially in Michigan. Yes, Elvis Costello. Oh,

1281
01:07:11,360 --> 01:07:18,280
Speaker 1: that's gotta be geeks, moody geeks, some freaks, geeks, nobody.

1282
01:07:23,080 --> 01:07:25,960
Speaker 1: When you're a teenager, especially whatever songs are your favorite

1283
01:07:25,960 --> 01:07:29,160
Speaker 1: songs become the soundtrack to your life. He told consequence

1284
01:07:29,760 --> 01:07:32,280
Speaker 1: formerly consequence of sound. When you just call it consequence,

1285
01:07:32,320 --> 01:07:35,560
Speaker 1: it sounds weird. Uh, So I knew I really wanted

1286
01:07:35,600 --> 01:07:37,640
Speaker 1: to make that an integral part, and wrote a lot

1287
01:07:37,680 --> 01:07:41,280
Speaker 1: of the cues into the actual script, some of which changed. Actually,

1288
01:07:41,640 --> 01:07:43,800
Speaker 1: long and short music was always going to be very

1289
01:07:43,880 --> 01:07:46,600
Speaker 1: integral to it, and always something that I wanted us

1290
01:07:46,640 --> 01:07:48,840
Speaker 1: to write into the script so we could mold scenes

1291
01:07:48,880 --> 01:07:51,360
Speaker 1: around the actual songs when possible. You know why it

1292
01:07:51,480 --> 01:07:54,240
Speaker 1: is we stop people stop getting interested in in new music.

1293
01:07:54,320 --> 01:07:57,440
Speaker 1: That's like basically the same reason that you um keep

1294
01:07:57,520 --> 01:07:59,840
Speaker 1: flashing your all your stress dreams are high school based,

1295
01:08:00,000 --> 01:08:03,800
Speaker 1: because like, your brain is so squirted full of chemicals

1296
01:08:03,880 --> 01:08:07,160
Speaker 1: throughout puberty that everything is just like imprinted in a

1297
01:08:07,280 --> 01:08:09,560
Speaker 1: way that you can never truly escape. And then as

1298
01:08:09,600 --> 01:08:13,919
Speaker 1: you get older, your brain develops and starts blocking mood

1299
01:08:13,960 --> 01:08:18,240
Speaker 1: swings generated by the amygdala, meaning you literally feel things

1300
01:08:18,360 --> 01:08:21,439
Speaker 1: less intensely. So that's why as you get older, if

1301
01:08:21,479 --> 01:08:23,519
Speaker 1: you're like, I don't like new music, it's because you

1302
01:08:23,600 --> 01:08:27,439
Speaker 1: are literally biologically incapable of caring about anything as much

1303
01:08:27,479 --> 01:08:29,920
Speaker 1: as you did when you were a teenagers that my

1304
01:08:30,040 --> 01:08:33,479
Speaker 1: dinner with entreight thing. Oh yeah, when I was twenty

1305
01:08:33,720 --> 01:08:35,880
Speaker 1: or whatever, all I cared about was art and music.

1306
01:08:35,960 --> 01:08:40,400
Speaker 1: Now I'm thirty six and all I think about his money. Yes. That.

1307
01:08:41,000 --> 01:08:43,720
Speaker 1: It's also my favorite tweet of all time, which is, um,

1308
01:08:44,040 --> 01:08:46,840
Speaker 1: it's a woman talking about a scene at a date,

1309
01:08:46,960 --> 01:08:48,960
Speaker 1: and it's the tweet is basically what I just said,

1310
01:08:49,000 --> 01:08:50,880
Speaker 1: which is like, And so as we get older, our

1311
01:08:50,920 --> 01:08:54,480
Speaker 1: prefrontal cortex develops and blocks mood swings generated by the amygdala,

1312
01:08:54,960 --> 01:08:56,960
Speaker 1: which makes it literally harder to feel about things the

1313
01:08:57,000 --> 01:08:59,400
Speaker 1: way we want did and then date. So you don't

1314
01:08:59,439 --> 01:09:02,840
Speaker 1: like your pa stuff me, I'm saying I don't like

1315
01:09:02,920 --> 01:09:09,240
Speaker 1: anything Greg anyway. Uh yeah, they spent like a like

1316
01:09:09,320 --> 01:09:10,880
Speaker 1: a third of the budget on this show is the

1317
01:09:11,000 --> 01:09:14,800
Speaker 1: music rights. Oh my god, yeah, probably more. I mean,

1318
01:09:14,840 --> 01:09:16,439
Speaker 1: this is another thing that set the show apart from

1319
01:09:16,439 --> 01:09:19,080
Speaker 1: other sitcoms. It was rare for network shows to have

1320
01:09:19,240 --> 01:09:22,680
Speaker 1: these classic songs in every single episode. And you know,

1321
01:09:22,800 --> 01:09:24,439
Speaker 1: in a sense, it's another one of the big things

1322
01:09:24,520 --> 01:09:26,120
Speaker 1: that linked it to the Wonder Years. It was really

1323
01:09:26,160 --> 01:09:29,599
Speaker 1: the last one that had so many hits in every episode,

1324
01:09:29,640 --> 01:09:31,640
Speaker 1: but even those that they were kind of used a

1325
01:09:31,680 --> 01:09:34,599
Speaker 1: bit more sparingly. They took a lot of inspiration from

1326
01:09:34,600 --> 01:09:37,439
Speaker 1: the cinema world to stuff by like how Ashby, like

1327
01:09:37,560 --> 01:09:39,840
Speaker 1: Harold and Maud where they use Cats Stevens and all

1328
01:09:39,880 --> 01:09:42,720
Speaker 1: the Scorsesey needle drops. And it's also been noted in

1329
01:09:42,760 --> 01:09:45,120
Speaker 1: a lot of music centric think pieces on freaking Geeks

1330
01:09:46,240 --> 01:09:49,679
Speaker 1: is a weird time in music. Music have basically splintered

1331
01:09:49,720 --> 01:09:53,519
Speaker 1: into subgenres disco, punk, new wave, and heavy metals, so

1332
01:09:53,920 --> 01:09:55,680
Speaker 1: the choices could be all over the place and they

1333
01:09:55,720 --> 01:09:57,320
Speaker 1: were all fit, so it gives them a lot of

1334
01:09:57,479 --> 01:10:01,160
Speaker 1: you know, unique styles. The theme of is Joan Jets

1335
01:10:01,200 --> 01:10:03,840
Speaker 1: Bad Reputation. But you know they almost went with Ted

1336
01:10:03,960 --> 01:10:09,040
Speaker 1: Nugent's Great White Buffalo because Paul like the opening guitar riff. Yeah,

1337
01:10:09,120 --> 01:10:11,920
Speaker 1: I mean that that also scans because New Jim was

1338
01:10:11,960 --> 01:10:14,679
Speaker 1: in Amboi Duke's right, so he was like a Michigan

1339
01:10:14,760 --> 01:10:17,880
Speaker 1: guy as well. Right, I don't think we've mentioned this,

1340
01:10:18,040 --> 01:10:21,479
Speaker 1: but it's set in Paul Figge's hometown, right, Like outside

1341
01:10:21,520 --> 01:10:24,360
Speaker 1: of like something Michigan suburb. I think it's a it's

1342
01:10:24,360 --> 01:10:27,000
Speaker 1: a fictitious town, I think, but it's supposed to be.

1343
01:10:27,240 --> 01:10:30,680
Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, um. Both fig and Apataw came by their

1344
01:10:30,720 --> 01:10:33,200
Speaker 1: love of music. Honestly. If he played guitar and drums

1345
01:10:33,240 --> 01:10:35,360
Speaker 1: growing up, and he saved up to buy himself a

1346
01:10:35,520 --> 01:10:38,320
Speaker 1: multi track task camme recorder that he used to make

1347
01:10:38,439 --> 01:10:41,240
Speaker 1: like parody songs and comedy skits in his basement, I

1348
01:10:41,280 --> 01:10:44,120
Speaker 1: didn't know this. Apata's grandfather was a record producer named

1349
01:10:44,160 --> 01:10:47,240
Speaker 1: Bobby Shadd who produced the first Janis Joplin record. Yeah,

1350
01:10:47,439 --> 01:10:50,519
Speaker 1: he was a big deal. He knows a lot about music,

1351
01:10:50,640 --> 01:10:53,400
Speaker 1: Jut Apataw. He once tweeted one of my Rolling Stone

1352
01:10:53,439 --> 01:10:57,000
Speaker 1: stories like it was really special. Yeah, that's great. I

1353
01:10:57,040 --> 01:10:59,000
Speaker 1: would love to talk to him about that. There's a

1354
01:10:59,080 --> 01:11:01,800
Speaker 1: great there's a great story of I think he told him,

1355
01:11:01,800 --> 01:11:04,160
Speaker 1: like Seth Meyers or something about how he I mean,

1356
01:11:04,200 --> 01:11:05,880
Speaker 1: he's like me when it comes to the Beatles, like

1357
01:11:06,120 --> 01:11:07,799
Speaker 1: you know, like most people when it comes to the Beatles,

1358
01:11:07,880 --> 01:11:11,000
Speaker 1: but he just worships them. And he met Paul McCartney

1359
01:11:11,120 --> 01:11:14,920
Speaker 1: at like some stage door after some show or something,

1360
01:11:15,080 --> 01:11:18,439
Speaker 1: and he's talking to him and they're actually like hitting

1361
01:11:18,479 --> 01:11:21,960
Speaker 1: it off and having a conversation, and Judd is so

1362
01:11:22,120 --> 01:11:25,559
Speaker 1: emboldened by how well things are going that I think

1363
01:11:25,640 --> 01:11:29,840
Speaker 1: he asks for Paul's number, and then Paul just recoils

1364
01:11:30,000 --> 01:11:35,559
Speaker 1: and puts his hand up like WHOA somebody took a picture,

1365
01:11:35,680 --> 01:11:38,920
Speaker 1: like some paparazzi or something took a picture of this moment,

1366
01:11:40,680 --> 01:11:45,240
Speaker 1: visibly recoiling shot Capital and then like when he's telling

1367
01:11:45,240 --> 01:11:47,160
Speaker 1: the story in seth Meyers, I like projected up on

1368
01:11:47,240 --> 01:11:52,800
Speaker 1: the screen. That's um. The kids, however, on the show,

1369
01:11:52,920 --> 01:11:54,519
Speaker 1: most of them were pretty out of step with all

1370
01:11:54,560 --> 01:11:57,519
Speaker 1: of this. Martin Star told Consequence. The first album he

1371
01:11:57,560 --> 01:12:01,040
Speaker 1: bought with his own money was Tupac Tupac's Tupac Tupac.

1372
01:12:01,840 --> 01:12:04,519
Speaker 1: Martin Star told Consequence the first album he bought with

1373
01:12:04,600 --> 01:12:07,599
Speaker 1: his own money was Tupac's All Eyes on Me. Busy

1374
01:12:07,640 --> 01:12:10,759
Speaker 1: Phillips name dropped bands like The Promise, Ring and Modest Mouse,

1375
01:12:10,960 --> 01:12:14,919
Speaker 1: Torrey Amos and Fiona Apple. Um But Daily John Francis

1376
01:12:15,040 --> 01:12:18,000
Speaker 1: Daily was in the Who's Tommy? When he was nine

1377
01:12:18,080 --> 01:12:21,080
Speaker 1: years old. He played Young Tommy in the national tour

1378
01:12:21,200 --> 01:12:25,720
Speaker 1: of the stage musical. Um Apatel said, my memory tells

1379
01:12:25,800 --> 01:12:28,240
Speaker 1: me that it was somewhat shocking how little many of

1380
01:12:28,360 --> 01:12:32,599
Speaker 1: them knew about led Zeppelin. UM and Paul f organized

1381
01:12:32,640 --> 01:12:35,040
Speaker 1: a class trip, a field trip for the kids to

1382
01:12:35,120 --> 01:12:37,960
Speaker 1: go see Ted Nugent at the House of Blues because

1383
01:12:38,000 --> 01:12:41,000
Speaker 1: he was like, this is what your characters are listening to. Um.

1384
01:12:41,160 --> 01:12:43,920
Speaker 1: Both of them are obsessive sticks fans, which I find

1385
01:12:44,000 --> 01:12:46,600
Speaker 1: very funny, like deep sticks, not just you know, not

1386
01:12:46,800 --> 01:12:52,800
Speaker 1: just first time I went to New Orleans, I got

1387
01:12:52,880 --> 01:12:55,719
Speaker 1: a cab driver who drove me to the airport coming

1388
01:12:55,760 --> 01:12:57,640
Speaker 1: back and he saw that my bag of records. He

1389
01:12:57,760 --> 01:12:59,920
Speaker 1: was like, oh, yeah, you like music. I was like,

1390
01:13:00,040 --> 01:13:05,040
Speaker 1: oh uh, he's first of all, not like a real cab,

1391
01:13:05,200 --> 01:13:07,960
Speaker 1: just like a dude in a car clearly work for

1392
01:13:08,000 --> 01:13:11,679
Speaker 1: some kind of livery service, just like overflowing ashtray of butts,

1393
01:13:11,760 --> 01:13:13,920
Speaker 1: and just like pops open the glove and pulls out

1394
01:13:13,960 --> 01:13:16,640
Speaker 1: of one of the spindle like a full spindle of

1395
01:13:16,920 --> 01:13:22,000
Speaker 1: burned live sticks bootlegs, And for the next five minutes

1396
01:13:22,479 --> 01:13:27,120
Speaker 1: just skipped around two different eras of live sticks, playing

1397
01:13:27,240 --> 01:13:31,120
Speaker 1: me sticks deep cuts. Are we talking like back prime

1398
01:13:31,160 --> 01:13:35,400
Speaker 1: era like late seventies, early eighties or these like seventies

1399
01:13:38,000 --> 01:13:40,000
Speaker 1: and and being like, oh Yeah, he's like roll right.

1400
01:13:40,040 --> 01:13:42,439
Speaker 1: Around two thousand five, they got this new drummer really

1401
01:13:42,479 --> 01:13:44,000
Speaker 1: gave him a shot in the arm, like you gotta

1402
01:13:44,040 --> 01:13:48,439
Speaker 1: check out this recording of all right, but you know

1403
01:13:48,479 --> 01:13:50,760
Speaker 1: where in New Orleans, right, Like not this kind of

1404
01:13:50,920 --> 01:13:56,840
Speaker 1: music anyway. Sam Levine told Consequence that he bragged to

1405
01:13:57,040 --> 01:13:59,960
Speaker 1: Apata and Fig that they wouldn't have to worry about

1406
01:14:00,200 --> 01:14:04,439
Speaker 1: his taste because he fancied himself a classic rock aficionado. Uh.

1407
01:14:04,520 --> 01:14:06,679
Speaker 1: And they parried by asking me if he knew about

1408
01:14:06,720 --> 01:14:11,320
Speaker 1: the record hocus Pocus by the Dutch prog rock band Focus,

1409
01:14:12,400 --> 01:14:14,600
Speaker 1: and he did not. Are you familiar with Are you

1410
01:14:14,680 --> 01:14:18,360
Speaker 1: familiar with Focus? It's in my dad's record collection of

1411
01:14:18,439 --> 01:14:21,679
Speaker 1: stuff he had in college that has not been removed

1412
01:14:21,720 --> 01:14:25,320
Speaker 1: from the milk heard that song, the one would they

1413
01:14:25,400 --> 01:14:28,720
Speaker 1: do the yodeling that goes into a flute breakdown, And

1414
01:14:28,840 --> 01:14:31,639
Speaker 1: to this day Levine said, I haven't returned his copy

1415
01:14:31,720 --> 01:14:35,400
Speaker 1: of Focus too. I have no idea where it might be,

1416
01:14:35,800 --> 01:14:38,400
Speaker 1: but I know I definitely never gave it back. Um.

1417
01:14:38,840 --> 01:14:41,880
Speaker 1: That kid actually also successfully lobbied for white Room by

1418
01:14:42,000 --> 01:14:44,400
Speaker 1: Cream to make it into an episode that already had

1419
01:14:44,800 --> 01:14:47,760
Speaker 1: two other Cream songs in it. It was perfect the

1420
01:14:47,760 --> 01:14:49,200
Speaker 1: episode of the kids are for us to take a

1421
01:14:49,240 --> 01:14:51,400
Speaker 1: shower in gym class, and the shower was just a

1422
01:14:51,560 --> 01:14:55,400
Speaker 1: big room of gleaming white tiles. Great neal drop. I mean,

1423
01:14:55,479 --> 01:14:57,679
Speaker 1: first time I heard that song was in the old

1424
01:14:57,760 --> 01:15:00,960
Speaker 1: iMac commercials. I don't remember that was in the for

1425
01:15:01,040 --> 01:15:03,800
Speaker 1: the white one. Yeah, I remember. She's a Rainbow by

1426
01:15:03,880 --> 01:15:05,960
Speaker 1: the Stones was the first time I heard that song.

1427
01:15:06,360 --> 01:15:09,120
Speaker 1: And they had all the colorful Imax. That was a

1428
01:15:09,200 --> 01:15:13,679
Speaker 1: great songs, a great ad, the little Ballet of Imax. Yeah, yeah,

1429
01:15:13,720 --> 01:15:15,320
Speaker 1: they had. I think they had a one for every

1430
01:15:15,360 --> 01:15:18,280
Speaker 1: different color, and the needle drops for more all different anyway.

1431
01:15:18,520 --> 01:15:21,680
Speaker 1: Music supervisor Buck Damon told Consequence that most of the

1432
01:15:21,720 --> 01:15:24,320
Speaker 1: classic rock bands they approached, we're pretty open to having

1433
01:15:24,320 --> 01:15:26,439
Speaker 1: their music used for the show, with the two big

1434
01:15:26,520 --> 01:15:29,360
Speaker 1: exceptions to that being led Zeppelin and Pink Floyd. You

1435
01:15:29,439 --> 01:15:31,840
Speaker 1: asked led Zeppelin for anything, dream Page just holds out

1436
01:15:31,880 --> 01:15:36,640
Speaker 1: his hand, doesn't even make contact with you. Uh. They

1437
01:15:36,720 --> 01:15:39,719
Speaker 1: were in fact able to secure a first ever TV

1438
01:15:39,920 --> 01:15:44,160
Speaker 1: seek from Billy Joel for Rosalinda's eyes. I keep seeing

1439
01:15:44,240 --> 01:15:47,240
Speaker 1: that like sighted everywhere is like a big deal, Like

1440
01:15:47,920 --> 01:15:51,800
Speaker 1: that's not You're Billy Joe guy. Was it was it? Yeah,

1441
01:15:51,800 --> 01:15:53,240
Speaker 1: I don't know. It's not one of my favorites. I

1442
01:15:53,280 --> 01:15:54,920
Speaker 1: don't think it's a big song it is. I mean

1443
01:15:54,960 --> 01:16:00,679
Speaker 1: it's cool. Wasn't Vienna used in uh and cheers O Taxi?

1444
01:16:01,080 --> 01:16:03,080
Speaker 1: It was an episode of Taxi? That was what it

1445
01:16:03,280 --> 01:16:06,519
Speaker 1: was an equally great ensemble cast show. Okay, we'll get

1446
01:16:06,560 --> 01:16:09,479
Speaker 1: your together. Consequence I read that in your article. You

1447
01:16:09,800 --> 01:16:13,640
Speaker 1: do a little fact checking consequence of inaccuracy. More like it.

1448
01:16:15,080 --> 01:16:17,599
Speaker 1: That was a great piece. It was a good piece. Yeah.

1449
01:16:18,479 --> 01:16:21,519
Speaker 1: It's worth noting that music supervisors Buck Dammon and Amanda

1450
01:16:21,600 --> 01:16:25,280
Speaker 1: sheer Demi also worked on the epic soundtrack to Garden

1451
01:16:25,400 --> 01:16:28,599
Speaker 1: State as well as Meet Girls. I don't know where

1452
01:16:28,600 --> 01:16:30,719
Speaker 1: else to put this, but the scene where Jason Siegel's

1453
01:16:30,800 --> 01:16:34,120
Speaker 1: character Nick does his Saturday Night Fever style disco dance

1454
01:16:34,400 --> 01:16:36,760
Speaker 1: that was actually choreographed by the person who did the

1455
01:16:36,840 --> 01:16:40,519
Speaker 1: real John Travolta's dance on Saturday Night Fever. That's awesome.

1456
01:16:40,880 --> 01:16:42,680
Speaker 1: They just say they brought him out of well, I

1457
01:16:42,720 --> 01:16:47,040
Speaker 1: guess he probably wasn't retired. Um anyway, oh man. We

1458
01:16:47,120 --> 01:16:51,559
Speaker 1: mentioned earlier that apparently they wrote a lot of personal

1459
01:16:51,720 --> 01:16:54,519
Speaker 1: appeals to different musicians to get these songs secured, and

1460
01:16:54,880 --> 01:16:57,639
Speaker 1: they wanted to get Neil Young's Only Love Can Break

1461
01:16:57,680 --> 01:17:01,479
Speaker 1: Your Heart for the scene that's the scene where Bill

1462
01:17:01,760 --> 01:17:05,000
Speaker 1: confronts his dad. We sent it off for clearance. Jodd

1463
01:17:05,000 --> 01:17:07,240
Speaker 1: Apatel said, we heard that he watched it on the

1464
01:17:07,360 --> 01:17:10,840
Speaker 1: tour bus and that he gave us approval, and while

1465
01:17:10,880 --> 01:17:14,040
Speaker 1: we were editing the episode, we were canceled. So at

1466
01:17:14,120 --> 01:17:16,080
Speaker 1: that point we didn't know if the show would ever air,

1467
01:17:16,320 --> 01:17:18,439
Speaker 1: and it was an expensive que so I had to

1468
01:17:18,520 --> 01:17:19,960
Speaker 1: decide if I wanted to pay for it out of

1469
01:17:20,000 --> 01:17:22,160
Speaker 1: my own pocket. The studio said, we're not going to

1470
01:17:22,240 --> 01:17:24,280
Speaker 1: put a super expensive song in when you don't even

1471
01:17:24,320 --> 01:17:27,360
Speaker 1: have a network anymore. Several times in my life, I

1472
01:17:27,400 --> 01:17:30,040
Speaker 1: wake up with my heart racing thinking not paying for

1473
01:17:30,120 --> 01:17:32,560
Speaker 1: that song was one of the stupidest creative decisions I

1474
01:17:32,640 --> 01:17:35,240
Speaker 1: ever made. They ended up going with Dean Martin's You're

1475
01:17:35,280 --> 01:17:38,759
Speaker 1: Nobody Until Somebody Loves You, which is also equally tragic

1476
01:17:38,880 --> 01:17:42,479
Speaker 1: in that but admirably Aptel did not give up when

1477
01:17:42,520 --> 01:17:44,240
Speaker 1: the show came out on home media. He said, we

1478
01:17:44,280 --> 01:17:46,000
Speaker 1: asked New Young if we could put it in the show.

1479
01:17:46,280 --> 01:17:48,000
Speaker 1: When we got the deal to release it on DVD

1480
01:17:48,160 --> 01:17:51,080
Speaker 1: and he said, no, I don't know why. I literally

1481
01:17:51,160 --> 01:17:53,560
Speaker 1: was hunting down anybody who might know him. I was

1482
01:17:53,640 --> 01:17:56,479
Speaker 1: talking to personal trainers. I guess he was over us

1483
01:17:56,520 --> 01:17:59,400
Speaker 1: at that point. Lindsay's decision to become a Deadhead and

1484
01:17:59,439 --> 01:18:01,400
Speaker 1: follow the Bay and around the country was literally a

1485
01:18:01,520 --> 01:18:04,080
Speaker 1: spur of the moment decision made by apatown Fig after

1486
01:18:04,160 --> 01:18:07,360
Speaker 1: hearing mid season rumblings that their show was in trouble.

1487
01:18:07,400 --> 01:18:10,880
Speaker 1: I think they were at a Rodney danger Field stand

1488
01:18:10,960 --> 01:18:13,719
Speaker 1: up show in Vegas, if I'm remembering the anecdote correctly,

1489
01:18:13,760 --> 01:18:15,280
Speaker 1: and they were talking about how they might not have

1490
01:18:15,400 --> 01:18:19,040
Speaker 1: had a show. Uh, And so Apataw was like, yeah,

1491
01:18:19,080 --> 01:18:21,800
Speaker 1: you should film the season finale now to make sure

1492
01:18:21,800 --> 01:18:23,519
Speaker 1: that they had a satisfy ending for the show even

1493
01:18:23,520 --> 01:18:25,479
Speaker 1: if they didn't get the full season order. So the

1494
01:18:25,600 --> 01:18:28,200
Speaker 1: dead thing came more from Apataw, who remembered the kids

1495
01:18:28,280 --> 01:18:30,840
Speaker 1: disappearing from Long Island where he grew up for months

1496
01:18:30,880 --> 01:18:32,679
Speaker 1: at a time to follow the band, and then turning

1497
01:18:32,680 --> 01:18:36,120
Speaker 1: back up. Uh. And Fie grew up in I think

1498
01:18:36,479 --> 01:18:39,000
Speaker 1: I think he did grow up in Detroit, but he

1499
01:18:39,040 --> 01:18:41,960
Speaker 1: said he really only heard the Dead like on FM radio,

1500
01:18:42,080 --> 01:18:44,800
Speaker 1: like Sugar Magnolian and stuff, but he apparently listened to

1501
01:18:44,880 --> 01:18:47,240
Speaker 1: American Beauty over and over again while he was writing

1502
01:18:47,280 --> 01:18:50,439
Speaker 1: the finale great record. Uh. He round up really connecting

1503
01:18:50,479 --> 01:18:53,519
Speaker 1: with Box of Rain and Ripple, both of which the

1504
01:18:53,560 --> 01:18:55,599
Speaker 1: band gave their approval to use in the show Box

1505
01:18:55,640 --> 01:19:00,400
Speaker 1: of Rain song about Phil Lesh's dad dying. He told Sequence,

1506
01:19:00,400 --> 01:19:02,280
Speaker 1: I knew I wanted Box of Rain to be her

1507
01:19:02,520 --> 01:19:05,320
Speaker 1: Linda's epiphany song. And I remember when we showed the

1508
01:19:05,360 --> 01:19:07,360
Speaker 1: first cut of it to the writers, A couple of

1509
01:19:07,400 --> 01:19:09,800
Speaker 1: people in the writer's room were just laughing, like, oh

1510
01:19:09,880 --> 01:19:12,040
Speaker 1: my god, this is so cringe e watching this girl

1511
01:19:12,160 --> 01:19:14,400
Speaker 1: just start dancing to the album. And I was like, yeah,

1512
01:19:14,640 --> 01:19:17,160
Speaker 1: but we're all cringe at that age when you discover something,

1513
01:19:17,240 --> 01:19:21,679
Speaker 1: you just get into it more and more, which is true, right. God,

1514
01:19:22,240 --> 01:19:25,360
Speaker 1: thank god there's not footage of me being into bands

1515
01:19:25,400 --> 01:19:29,240
Speaker 1: and like visibly reacting the first time I heard Ransom

1516
01:19:30,160 --> 01:19:36,880
Speaker 1: or Tom Waits for that matter. Ornette Coleman, I have

1517
01:19:36,960 --> 01:19:40,360
Speaker 1: to stop myself from doing the Marvin Barry thing at

1518
01:19:40,439 --> 01:19:52,280
Speaker 1: every juncture, your cousin or Nett Barry. Um. They did,

1519
01:19:52,320 --> 01:19:54,439
Speaker 1: in fact, force Jason Siegel to learn how to play

1520
01:19:54,479 --> 01:19:56,960
Speaker 1: the drums. Look, he's a musical dude. I love his

1521
01:19:57,080 --> 01:20:00,600
Speaker 1: vampire Dracula he puts together and forgetting Sarah Marshall. Do

1522
01:20:00,680 --> 01:20:02,720
Speaker 1: you like that movie? I feel like that might hit

1523
01:20:02,800 --> 01:20:05,519
Speaker 1: some of yours. I saw it years ago. I feel

1524
01:20:05,560 --> 01:20:08,200
Speaker 1: weird about him because somebody once said that I reminded

1525
01:20:08,520 --> 01:20:11,240
Speaker 1: them of him, and so now whenever I see him,

1526
01:20:11,280 --> 01:20:14,160
Speaker 1: I just see things I don't like about myself. Oh,

1527
01:20:14,400 --> 01:20:17,280
Speaker 1: he's like universally beloved. Nobody has anything bad to say

1528
01:20:17,280 --> 01:20:22,240
Speaker 1: about Jason Segel anyway. Unfortunately, with such high profile music

1529
01:20:22,439 --> 01:20:24,360
Speaker 1: rights issues meant that many of the songs and freaks

1530
01:20:24,400 --> 01:20:26,880
Speaker 1: and geeks were not available in the international versions of

1531
01:20:26,960 --> 01:20:30,400
Speaker 1: the show. So they got composer Michael Andrews, yes, the

1532
01:20:30,479 --> 01:20:33,600
Speaker 1: Donnie Darko guy who did the show's original score, to

1533
01:20:33,720 --> 01:20:37,599
Speaker 1: do these temp replacement sound alike versions for the international releases.

1534
01:20:38,000 --> 01:20:39,800
Speaker 1: But since so much of the show was built around

1535
01:20:39,800 --> 01:20:42,040
Speaker 1: these specific songs, they didn't want to put it out

1536
01:20:42,520 --> 01:20:45,719
Speaker 1: on home media without the actual sinks that they intended.

1537
01:20:46,200 --> 01:20:48,800
Speaker 1: Apt told Consequence when we started getting offers to put

1538
01:20:48,840 --> 01:20:50,880
Speaker 1: it out, the problem was always like, but we can't

1539
01:20:50,920 --> 01:20:53,080
Speaker 1: pay for the music we're going to have to put

1540
01:20:53,120 --> 01:20:55,840
Speaker 1: out with those international sound cues, with the replacement songs,

1541
01:20:55,920 --> 01:20:57,920
Speaker 1: and I was like, Nope, we can't, we can't do it.

1542
01:20:58,600 --> 01:21:01,479
Speaker 1: Figue said, we just kept turning it down for four years.

1543
01:21:01,560 --> 01:21:03,320
Speaker 1: These things would pop up and it'd be like, Nope,

1544
01:21:03,360 --> 01:21:05,120
Speaker 1: we can't do it, not worth it, we don't want it.

1545
01:21:05,720 --> 01:21:08,799
Speaker 1: Good for them were sticking to their guns. That is incredible. Eventually,

1546
01:21:08,880 --> 01:21:11,320
Speaker 1: Shout Factory ponied up and released the show on DVD

1547
01:21:11,439 --> 01:21:14,439
Speaker 1: with the original music intact, as did Hulu when it

1548
01:21:14,720 --> 01:21:18,719
Speaker 1: the show arrived on the streamer before it was on DVD.

1549
01:21:18,840 --> 01:21:22,400
Speaker 1: We're like bootleg copies going on eBay for absurd amounts

1550
01:21:22,439 --> 01:21:26,280
Speaker 1: of money for fans, like hundreds of dollars. I didn't,

1551
01:21:26,280 --> 01:21:28,479
Speaker 1: I didn't see that, but that's scans they did. We

1552
01:21:28,600 --> 01:21:32,320
Speaker 1: will get into the fans of for the show water. Yeah,

1553
01:21:32,360 --> 01:21:34,519
Speaker 1: the fans shell that. But yeah, this was the same

1554
01:21:34,520 --> 01:21:36,679
Speaker 1: problem with The Wonder Years. That's why The Wonderers wasn't

1555
01:21:36,680 --> 01:21:40,000
Speaker 1: available on streaming for the longest time, and it wasn't

1556
01:21:40,000 --> 01:21:44,160
Speaker 1: available on DVD until quick reminder of the entertainment industry

1557
01:21:44,320 --> 01:21:46,599
Speaker 1: is making it up at all times. So I'm sure

1558
01:21:46,720 --> 01:21:50,439
Speaker 1: they were like streaming, how does the how does that work? Uh?

1559
01:21:51,120 --> 01:21:54,280
Speaker 1: DV home releases there's gonna be home if you're telling

1560
01:21:54,360 --> 01:21:59,320
Speaker 1: me there's gonna be a home. Media in the consequence interview,

1561
01:21:59,360 --> 01:22:01,840
Speaker 1: feed straight that he didn't want the sound or the

1562
01:22:01,960 --> 01:22:04,559
Speaker 1: look of the show to be reminiscent of that seventies show,

1563
01:22:05,040 --> 01:22:08,120
Speaker 1: the broad comedic hit at the time that he felt

1564
01:22:08,640 --> 01:22:12,519
Speaker 1: cherry picked kind of the most absurd things of the seventies. Yeah,

1565
01:22:12,560 --> 01:22:15,200
Speaker 1: the jokes were basically like, perms are funny, leisure suits

1566
01:22:15,240 --> 01:22:17,120
Speaker 1: are funny, and like I said at the top of

1567
01:22:17,160 --> 01:22:18,519
Speaker 1: the episode, that was sort of the reason why I

1568
01:22:18,600 --> 01:22:20,719
Speaker 1: never wanted to watch Freaks and Geeks in the first place.

1569
01:22:20,760 --> 01:22:22,800
Speaker 1: I thought it was a similar vibe about just like

1570
01:22:23,360 --> 01:22:26,880
Speaker 1: Stoner's being goofy and I hate that show, dude, I

1571
01:22:27,000 --> 01:22:30,799
Speaker 1: hate everyone who's involved in it. I don't understand except

1572
01:22:30,840 --> 01:22:35,839
Speaker 1: for Red anyway. He explained of the wardrobe they outfits

1573
01:22:35,960 --> 01:22:38,680
Speaker 1: they wore on that seventies show, We're definitely worn back then,

1574
01:22:38,760 --> 01:22:40,920
Speaker 1: but that wasn't what everybody wore, So it was very

1575
01:22:40,960 --> 01:22:43,320
Speaker 1: important to me with wardrobe. I got all my old

1576
01:22:43,400 --> 01:22:45,759
Speaker 1: yearbooks and I went through them and I said, here's

1577
01:22:45,760 --> 01:22:48,080
Speaker 1: how we dressed. We didn't all wear platform shoes and

1578
01:22:48,160 --> 01:22:51,320
Speaker 1: leisure suits and have our hair feathered with puuka shells, burnout,

1579
01:22:51,360 --> 01:22:54,120
Speaker 1: stressed in army clothes and jeans. It was more sixties

1580
01:22:54,160 --> 01:22:57,720
Speaker 1: oriented still to that end. Wardrobe designer Deborah McGuire, who

1581
01:22:57,760 --> 01:23:01,280
Speaker 1: also worked on Friends around the same time, thrifted everything

1582
01:23:01,360 --> 01:23:04,080
Speaker 1: for the show. Nothing on it was designer or bespoke.

1583
01:23:04,800 --> 01:23:06,840
Speaker 1: It was funny because I remember pulling the rack of

1584
01:23:06,960 --> 01:23:09,439
Speaker 1: vintage clothes with a fitting and thinking, these are the

1585
01:23:09,640 --> 01:23:12,080
Speaker 1: ugliest clothes I've ever seen in my life, she told

1586
01:23:12,160 --> 01:23:15,320
Speaker 1: the clothing website High snow By Itty Like. It was

1587
01:23:15,439 --> 01:23:18,680
Speaker 1: just ugly. She says. It was like the Midwest threw up.

1588
01:23:19,200 --> 01:23:22,600
Speaker 1: I hated it. That said, she said, the cast loved it.

1589
01:23:23,080 --> 01:23:24,840
Speaker 1: Each actor would come into their fitting and go, oh

1590
01:23:24,920 --> 01:23:27,639
Speaker 1: my god, I love this I wanted And that's when

1591
01:23:27,640 --> 01:23:29,720
Speaker 1: you realize there's so much about fashion and trends that

1592
01:23:29,840 --> 01:23:32,080
Speaker 1: is so psychological in terms of what you're used to,

1593
01:23:32,160 --> 01:23:34,880
Speaker 1: seeing what you've never seen, what looks fresh, and what

1594
01:23:35,080 --> 01:23:38,320
Speaker 1: looks new. These kids had never seen clothes that looked

1595
01:23:38,360 --> 01:23:42,200
Speaker 1: like this before. McGuire echoes the other cast and crew

1596
01:23:42,280 --> 01:23:45,639
Speaker 1: members reminiscences that Franco went above and beyond for his role.

1597
01:23:46,200 --> 01:23:49,240
Speaker 1: He flew to Paul Figge's hometown of Mount Clemens. There

1598
01:23:49,280 --> 01:23:51,960
Speaker 1: it is Michigan. To walk around and see what the

1599
01:23:52,040 --> 01:23:54,800
Speaker 1: houses look like, to see what the people were like,

1600
01:23:55,000 --> 01:23:56,560
Speaker 1: and to go to the thrift stores and what the

1601
01:23:56,640 --> 01:23:59,240
Speaker 1: clothing was like. He found pieces there that he thought

1602
01:23:59,280 --> 01:24:01,600
Speaker 1: would be interesting to bring back for the character. I

1603
01:24:01,720 --> 01:24:04,400
Speaker 1: think she mentioned that he had a copy of On

1604
01:24:04,520 --> 01:24:08,600
Speaker 1: the Road. I think you're right. Yeah. To achieve a

1605
01:24:08,720 --> 01:24:11,640
Speaker 1: unified look across the show's range of characters who occupied

1606
01:24:11,680 --> 01:24:15,320
Speaker 1: a broad strata of economic classes and cultural backgrounds, McGuire

1607
01:24:15,400 --> 01:24:19,080
Speaker 1: took an interesting tack. My idea was to overdie all

1608
01:24:19,160 --> 01:24:22,280
Speaker 1: of the wardrobe to give the whole piece a tone. Literally,

1609
01:24:22,400 --> 01:24:25,240
Speaker 1: every single piece of clothing went into an overde that

1610
01:24:25,400 --> 01:24:30,240
Speaker 1: was either gray or brown. Gross. She was also working

1611
01:24:30,320 --> 01:24:32,679
Speaker 1: on the show Friends at the time, which I find

1612
01:24:32,800 --> 01:24:36,519
Speaker 1: really hilarious. She said, I got the schizophrenic life going on.

1613
01:24:37,040 --> 01:24:39,000
Speaker 1: I got actors on Friends, you don't give a damn

1614
01:24:39,040 --> 01:24:40,639
Speaker 1: about you, And then you go over to the show

1615
01:24:40,720 --> 01:24:42,560
Speaker 1: Freaks and Geeks, where the kids are like sitting on

1616
01:24:42,680 --> 01:24:45,120
Speaker 1: your lap, hugging you and are so happy to see you.

1617
01:24:45,520 --> 01:24:47,840
Speaker 1: The energy was completely different. It was just such a

1618
01:24:47,880 --> 01:24:50,840
Speaker 1: wonderful place to be and it was inspiring all the time.

1619
01:24:52,479 --> 01:24:57,680
Speaker 1: M h. And then it all came crashing down. We're

1620
01:24:57,720 --> 01:24:59,720
Speaker 1: going to take a quick break, but we'll be right

1621
01:24:59,760 --> 01:25:02,400
Speaker 1: back with more too much information and just a moment.

1622
01:25:14,640 --> 01:25:17,040
Speaker 1: So after we talk about all the things that the

1623
01:25:17,120 --> 01:25:19,240
Speaker 1: show does well and how much of a fun time

1624
01:25:19,320 --> 01:25:21,880
Speaker 1: everyone had working on it, and so on and so forth.

1625
01:25:22,080 --> 01:25:25,760
Speaker 1: The sad end that everyone knew was coming, obviously was

1626
01:25:25,840 --> 01:25:29,280
Speaker 1: canceled not even halfway through. Anyway, A number of things

1627
01:25:29,320 --> 01:25:32,120
Speaker 1: conspired against it. It was a critical hit. It has

1628
01:25:32,160 --> 01:25:35,160
Speaker 1: an eight eight on Metacritic and a hundred percent on

1629
01:25:35,240 --> 01:25:40,000
Speaker 1: Rotten Tomatoes. Still garnered three Emmy nominations, one for casting.

1630
01:25:40,800 --> 01:25:44,080
Speaker 1: NBC debuted at eight pm on a Saturday, not a

1631
01:25:44,200 --> 01:25:47,160
Speaker 1: historically strong time slot. Yeah, this happen to be because

1632
01:25:47,160 --> 01:25:49,519
Speaker 1: a new network president or somebody hated the show and

1633
01:25:49,600 --> 01:25:51,799
Speaker 1: wanted to see a die on the vine, right, because

1634
01:25:51,880 --> 01:25:55,639
Speaker 1: no one programmed stuff on Saturday nights. It's dead air socially,

1635
01:25:55,680 --> 01:25:58,559
Speaker 1: a show that's meant for young people who would almost

1636
01:25:58,600 --> 01:26:02,040
Speaker 1: certainly be out with their friends on Saturday night. So yeah,

1637
01:26:02,240 --> 01:26:05,960
Speaker 1: it doesn't make any sense. I mean, the Shenanigans hardly

1638
01:26:06,000 --> 01:26:08,799
Speaker 1: stopped there. There was a three week gap between episodes

1639
01:26:08,840 --> 01:26:13,599
Speaker 1: two and three because of the World Series, um baseball. Uh,

1640
01:26:15,360 --> 01:26:18,000
Speaker 1: I don't know if people not know about what the

1641
01:26:18,000 --> 01:26:21,600
Speaker 1: World Series are anyway. Yeah, So three consecutive weeks for that,

1642
01:26:21,880 --> 01:26:25,080
Speaker 1: and then was put on hold until early January, so

1643
01:26:25,640 --> 01:26:30,280
Speaker 1: not in November or December. Aired once in February, twice

1644
01:26:30,320 --> 01:26:34,000
Speaker 1: in March, and then canceled, and then the final two

1645
01:26:34,040 --> 01:26:37,640
Speaker 1: episodes aired in July. Six episodes were never aired from

1646
01:26:37,680 --> 01:26:39,960
Speaker 1: the original run. At one point they put it up

1647
01:26:40,000 --> 01:26:43,720
Speaker 1: against Who Wants to Be a Millionaire, which is rude, nothing,

1648
01:26:43,800 --> 01:26:46,080
Speaker 1: He's gonna beat millionaire at that point, and then they

1649
01:26:46,160 --> 01:26:49,120
Speaker 1: just yeah, I just felt like a started to feel personal,

1650
01:26:49,479 --> 01:26:52,160
Speaker 1: you know, oh yeah, yeah, which is why years later

1651
01:26:52,560 --> 01:26:56,920
Speaker 1: Jet Aptl and the whole cast really like go either

1652
01:26:57,080 --> 01:27:00,880
Speaker 1: way to like name names when it and about the

1653
01:27:01,000 --> 01:27:03,360
Speaker 1: show died, they very much do. Who Was to a

1654
01:27:03,439 --> 01:27:06,240
Speaker 1: Millionaire was getting about eighteen million viewers an episode, and

1655
01:27:06,320 --> 01:27:09,639
Speaker 1: Freaks and Geeks getting I think at its peak seven million,

1656
01:27:09,720 --> 01:27:11,800
Speaker 1: and then it was just a slow drop off from there.

1657
01:27:12,200 --> 01:27:14,719
Speaker 1: Eventually it was the lowest rated show of the network,

1658
01:27:15,320 --> 01:27:18,000
Speaker 1: ultimately replaced by a game show, a reboot of the

1659
01:27:18,080 --> 01:27:21,360
Speaker 1: fifties show twenty one all. This is hilarious to me

1660
01:27:21,479 --> 01:27:24,559
Speaker 1: because that seven million figure would be considered a decent

1661
01:27:24,640 --> 01:27:28,320
Speaker 1: sized hit now for TV. Yeah yeah. Oh, and then

1662
01:27:28,360 --> 01:27:31,599
Speaker 1: the Mary and wrote a reunion show, which is an

1663
01:27:31,640 --> 01:27:34,280
Speaker 1: ABC made for TV movie sequel to the Mary title

1664
01:27:34,360 --> 01:27:38,960
Speaker 1: More show that ran opposite the tenth episode of Freaks

1665
01:27:38,960 --> 01:27:43,800
Speaker 1: and Geeks. Really the nail on the coffin. They're surely insulting, uh.

1666
01:27:43,880 --> 01:27:46,760
Speaker 1: In other words, they were off the air thirteen out

1667
01:27:46,800 --> 01:27:49,200
Speaker 1: of the twenty six weeks that it ran, and when

1668
01:27:49,240 --> 01:27:52,080
Speaker 1: it did run, the scheduling was so inconsistent that it

1669
01:27:52,240 --> 01:27:56,560
Speaker 1: was just it was to be unwatchable. Yeah, and I

1670
01:27:56,640 --> 01:27:59,080
Speaker 1: mean they didn't take it sitting down either. I mean

1671
01:27:59,160 --> 01:28:01,920
Speaker 1: they created a website that would tell people when Freaks

1672
01:28:01,920 --> 01:28:05,120
Speaker 1: and Geeks was airing. UM and NBC didn't want to

1673
01:28:05,240 --> 01:28:07,680
Speaker 1: share the u r L for it in in any

1674
01:28:07,720 --> 01:28:09,840
Speaker 1: of its ads. They were worried because they were worried

1675
01:28:09,840 --> 01:28:13,880
Speaker 1: about the Internet. Apotel told enemy they didn't want people

1676
01:28:13,880 --> 01:28:16,280
Speaker 1: to know the Internet existed. They were worried about losing

1677
01:28:16,400 --> 01:28:19,479
Speaker 1: viewers to it. The ratings for the first episode, like

1678
01:28:19,520 --> 01:28:22,120
Speaker 1: I said, we're okay. And at the next taping, Paul

1679
01:28:22,200 --> 01:28:24,679
Speaker 1: fi got up on a table in the cafeteria set

1680
01:28:24,720 --> 01:28:26,920
Speaker 1: and gathered everyone around and read out the ratings and

1681
01:28:27,040 --> 01:28:30,080
Speaker 1: was very proud. And then after that the numbers just

1682
01:28:30,320 --> 01:28:33,320
Speaker 1: nos dived and Joe Flaherty, the guy who plays the

1683
01:28:33,360 --> 01:28:36,679
Speaker 1: Weirds dad, later said, yeah, after that, Paul didn't gather

1684
01:28:36,760 --> 01:28:40,240
Speaker 1: everyone around and read the ratings anymore. He just took

1685
01:28:40,280 --> 01:28:43,519
Speaker 1: that as a sign, and jott Apothel told Vandity Fair,

1686
01:28:44,040 --> 01:28:46,719
Speaker 1: I thought, if we can't beat the tenth season of Cops,

1687
01:28:46,960 --> 01:28:49,120
Speaker 1: we don't deserve to be on the air. And then

1688
01:28:49,200 --> 01:28:53,880
Speaker 1: of course Cops kicked our ass. It's also worth noting

1689
01:28:53,920 --> 01:28:56,240
Speaker 1: that most of these episodes were aired out of sequence,

1690
01:28:56,479 --> 01:29:00,200
Speaker 1: which totally killed any sense of a linear narrative, and

1691
01:29:00,760 --> 01:29:03,679
Speaker 1: probably the most crucial example of this is the episode

1692
01:29:04,080 --> 01:29:08,200
Speaker 1: Kim Kelly Is My Friend, which actually wasn't aired originally,

1693
01:29:08,360 --> 01:29:10,640
Speaker 1: but it was a major turning point for Lindsay and

1694
01:29:10,760 --> 01:29:14,800
Speaker 1: Kim's relationship. Kim being Busy. Phillips's character Kim is in

1695
01:29:14,880 --> 01:29:18,920
Speaker 1: the first couple episodes horrible to basically everyone but especially Lindsay.

1696
01:29:19,360 --> 01:29:22,160
Speaker 1: But then Lindsay meets her family and discovers that she

1697
01:29:22,280 --> 01:29:25,200
Speaker 1: comes from really abusive household and they bought and the

1698
01:29:25,200 --> 01:29:29,120
Speaker 1: whole dynamic of their relationship changes. The audience sees her

1699
01:29:29,160 --> 01:29:31,080
Speaker 1: in a completely different light. They see why she is

1700
01:29:31,160 --> 01:29:33,839
Speaker 1: the way she is. The network just thought this episode

1701
01:29:33,920 --> 01:29:36,719
Speaker 1: was too intense, which, to be fair, it's a really

1702
01:29:36,800 --> 01:29:40,519
Speaker 1: intense bit of television. But without that episode, Kim is

1703
01:29:40,640 --> 01:29:44,599
Speaker 1: just mean. So you know, without airing sequentially, you wouldn't

1704
01:29:44,600 --> 01:29:48,080
Speaker 1: know why these characters are now relating completely differently with

1705
01:29:48,200 --> 01:29:50,559
Speaker 1: each other, and you won't get to see these characters

1706
01:29:50,600 --> 01:29:51,960
Speaker 1: in a way that help you relate to them and

1707
01:29:52,000 --> 01:29:55,040
Speaker 1: connect to them. And we mentioned the other dominant strain

1708
01:29:55,120 --> 01:29:57,280
Speaker 1: of teen oriented television at the time was stuff like

1709
01:29:57,400 --> 01:30:00,679
Speaker 1: Dawson's Creek, which came back to Bite Freaks and Geeks

1710
01:30:00,720 --> 01:30:05,080
Speaker 1: because incoming president at NBC was a guy named Garth

1711
01:30:05,280 --> 01:30:09,200
Speaker 1: ends Here who came from the w B and he

1712
01:30:09,400 --> 01:30:13,600
Speaker 1: told production that he had been to boarding school and

1713
01:30:13,760 --> 01:30:21,320
Speaker 1: Princeton and he quote didn't understand public school. Just let

1714
01:30:21,400 --> 01:30:27,160
Speaker 1: that sink in any documentary about the making of Freacing Geeks.

1715
01:30:27,200 --> 01:30:30,559
Speaker 1: I forget if it was Seth Rogan or Jason Siegel,

1716
01:30:30,640 --> 01:30:36,040
Speaker 1: but one of them, just because my name is Garth, Yeah,

1717
01:30:36,080 --> 01:30:40,800
Speaker 1: I mean that that that good Lord, that is grant

1718
01:30:40,840 --> 01:30:42,759
Speaker 1: me the Yeah you know, God grant me the confidence

1719
01:30:42,800 --> 01:30:45,800
Speaker 1: of a white man who would just stride into something,

1720
01:30:45,920 --> 01:30:48,120
Speaker 1: and announced that that was why he didn't he didn't

1721
01:30:48,160 --> 01:30:51,960
Speaker 1: get public school because of his background at boarding school

1722
01:30:52,000 --> 01:30:56,320
Speaker 1: in Princeton. Oh yeah, well, that's enough about him. The

1723
01:30:56,360 --> 01:30:58,479
Speaker 1: show's tone was not a fit to the dominant tone

1724
01:30:58,479 --> 01:31:01,160
Speaker 1: of high school shows at the time. Apatow told The

1725
01:31:01,200 --> 01:31:03,760
Speaker 1: Washington Post, we didn't get a ton of notes, but

1726
01:31:03,840 --> 01:31:05,720
Speaker 1: the spirit of the notes we did get was don't

1727
01:31:05,800 --> 01:31:08,040
Speaker 1: make it sad, don't make the kids suffer as much.

1728
01:31:08,320 --> 01:31:12,439
Speaker 1: Give the kids more victories, to which jud Apata would

1729
01:31:12,479 --> 01:31:15,200
Speaker 1: respond that this was a show about failing, but how

1730
01:31:15,240 --> 01:31:18,080
Speaker 1: you survive those failures and how your friends are always

1731
01:31:18,120 --> 01:31:20,560
Speaker 1: there for you when you fail. But there were some

1732
01:31:20,880 --> 01:31:25,000
Speaker 1: really classic notes, like one of them was, please revise

1733
01:31:25,160 --> 01:31:28,040
Speaker 1: ken and Amy's banter about a tuba being the only

1734
01:31:28,120 --> 01:31:32,559
Speaker 1: thing she can blow. And also, please take another pass

1735
01:31:32,640 --> 01:31:35,759
Speaker 1: at revisiting Bill's touching story about the time he quote

1736
01:31:36,040 --> 01:31:38,200
Speaker 1: tried to sneak out a fart but it came out

1737
01:31:38,280 --> 01:31:40,400
Speaker 1: of poop and I had to flush my undis down

1738
01:31:40,439 --> 01:31:43,160
Speaker 1: the toilet. I forget where I saw these. I think

1739
01:31:43,160 --> 01:31:46,120
Speaker 1: they're on the in the documentary they show like old

1740
01:31:46,360 --> 01:31:50,200
Speaker 1: inter network memos of notes from sensors and the network executives.

1741
01:31:50,560 --> 01:31:52,920
Speaker 1: They wanted to give more time to James Franco's character

1742
01:31:53,160 --> 01:31:56,400
Speaker 1: because you know, he obviously had heart throb potential, and

1743
01:31:56,479 --> 01:31:58,639
Speaker 1: they also wanted to throw in a few more happy endings.

1744
01:31:58,760 --> 01:32:01,120
Speaker 1: But as one of the producers is observed, have you

1745
01:32:01,200 --> 01:32:03,880
Speaker 1: ever seen a show that was failing suddenly turn it

1746
01:32:03,920 --> 01:32:10,080
Speaker 1: all around due to network executive notes? Yeah? Yeah. Consequently

1747
01:32:10,120 --> 01:32:14,000
Speaker 1: the battles intensified. Gabe Sex told The Guardian whoever was

1748
01:32:14,040 --> 01:32:16,040
Speaker 1: in charge at the time didn't quite understand what we

1749
01:32:16,120 --> 01:32:18,680
Speaker 1: were trying to do. They'd ask things like, when is

1750
01:32:18,720 --> 01:32:22,680
Speaker 1: Sam going to make out with a cheerleader? Uh, this

1751
01:32:22,840 --> 01:32:25,320
Speaker 1: is when the apatolog just kind of dug his heels in.

1752
01:32:25,479 --> 01:32:28,320
Speaker 1: Fig told Vanity Fair Judge was a screamer back then

1753
01:32:28,840 --> 01:32:33,200
Speaker 1: he would take them on hardcore. H But this all

1754
01:32:33,280 --> 01:32:37,799
Speaker 1: manifested in increasingly depressing ways. Uh. There's a pretty brutal

1755
01:32:38,120 --> 01:32:41,840
Speaker 1: I think a pretty brutal quote by Jason Siegel. He said,

1756
01:32:41,920 --> 01:32:44,120
Speaker 1: we didn't really have to be told we were being canceled.

1757
01:32:44,520 --> 01:32:47,560
Speaker 1: We watched the Craft Service table. It started out with

1758
01:32:47,640 --> 01:32:50,280
Speaker 1: like cold cuts and delicious snacks, and it was reduced

1759
01:32:50,320 --> 01:32:52,519
Speaker 1: to half a thing of creamer and some cornn pops

1760
01:32:52,600 --> 01:32:56,320
Speaker 1: by the end. Um sam Levine recalled that he said

1761
01:32:56,360 --> 01:32:58,360
Speaker 1: Judge phone would ring and he would walk twenty ft

1762
01:32:58,360 --> 01:33:00,799
Speaker 1: away and he'd be pacing on the phone for forty minutes,

1763
01:33:01,080 --> 01:33:04,000
Speaker 1: and I remember thinking that can't be a good phone call.

1764
01:33:05,320 --> 01:33:08,439
Speaker 1: Another telling signs when the cast reportedly got afloat in

1765
01:33:08,520 --> 01:33:11,120
Speaker 1: the Macy's Thanksgiving Day parade a few months after the

1766
01:33:11,160 --> 01:33:13,920
Speaker 1: show premiered, and no one knew who they were and

1767
01:33:14,000 --> 01:33:18,559
Speaker 1: they were just summarily booed by a crowd of New Yorkers. God,

1768
01:33:18,720 --> 01:33:20,280
Speaker 1: I guess their float was lame too. It was a

1769
01:33:20,320 --> 01:33:26,639
Speaker 1: giant watering can good job NBC promotional department. Apatow recalled saying,

1770
01:33:26,680 --> 01:33:28,920
Speaker 1: we were saying to the network, we need a full season,

1771
01:33:28,960 --> 01:33:31,360
Speaker 1: twenty two episodes to attract an audience, and the order

1772
01:33:31,400 --> 01:33:34,200
Speaker 1: wouldn't come, and I would just rant and rave. It

1773
01:33:34,360 --> 01:33:37,479
Speaker 1: was like begging your parents not to get divorced, trying

1774
01:33:37,560 --> 01:33:41,680
Speaker 1: to save the show. Yeah, considering his family history, it

1775
01:33:41,800 --> 01:33:44,840
Speaker 1: got pretty primal for him. His parents were divorced. He

1776
01:33:44,880 --> 01:33:47,680
Speaker 1: would later say, trying to keep the show together was

1777
01:33:47,760 --> 01:33:50,759
Speaker 1: basically his way of trying to keep his family together

1778
01:33:50,840 --> 01:33:54,680
Speaker 1: at all costs and all the depression and despair and

1779
01:33:54,920 --> 01:34:00,040
Speaker 1: rage that that brings um An episode this is that

1780
01:34:00,160 --> 01:34:02,120
Speaker 1: this is a great one. An episode in which Rogan's

1781
01:34:02,160 --> 01:34:06,160
Speaker 1: girlfriend explains to him that she has ambiguous genitalia, which

1782
01:34:06,200 --> 01:34:08,879
Speaker 1: is inspired by an episode of Howard Stern that Apatow

1783
01:34:08,920 --> 01:34:13,120
Speaker 1: had heard, became a big middle finger to NBC. Apatow said, like,

1784
01:34:13,560 --> 01:34:16,160
Speaker 1: now we're going to get really ambitious and aggressive with

1785
01:34:16,280 --> 01:34:18,840
Speaker 1: storylines that you would never approve of. The show had

1786
01:34:18,840 --> 01:34:21,920
Speaker 1: a chance of surviving. Ah yeah, this is really one

1787
01:34:21,920 --> 01:34:23,679
Speaker 1: of the only plot lines on the show that wasn't

1788
01:34:23,720 --> 01:34:27,799
Speaker 1: inspired by a personal anecdote from the writers. But despite

1789
01:34:27,840 --> 01:34:31,360
Speaker 1: all of these troubles, the show did garner devoted fans.

1790
01:34:31,880 --> 01:34:34,760
Speaker 1: Sam Levine told The Washington Post when NBC canceled the show,

1791
01:34:34,960 --> 01:34:37,479
Speaker 1: a group of fans pulled their money together but a

1792
01:34:37,600 --> 01:34:41,080
Speaker 1: two page add and variety telling NBC not to cancel

1793
01:34:41,160 --> 01:34:43,840
Speaker 1: the show. He said, I still can't believe they did this.

1794
01:34:44,320 --> 01:34:47,640
Speaker 1: These were regular people crowdfunding fifteen years before such a

1795
01:34:47,680 --> 01:34:52,400
Speaker 1: thing would become so commonplace online. Obviously, it didn't work,

1796
01:34:52,920 --> 01:34:56,719
Speaker 1: and the show got the ax of the eighteen episodes

1797
01:34:56,760 --> 01:34:58,920
Speaker 1: of Freaks and Geeks that were completed. The series was

1798
01:34:59,040 --> 01:35:02,920
Speaker 1: canceled after only twelve of them had aired. NBC broadcast

1799
01:35:03,040 --> 01:35:06,320
Speaker 1: three more of the episodes after a fan campaign, and

1800
01:35:06,520 --> 01:35:09,080
Speaker 1: the last were shown on the Fox Family Channel. The

1801
01:35:09,280 --> 01:35:12,280
Speaker 1: rat party for this was prom themed, which is so cute.

1802
01:35:12,720 --> 01:35:17,320
Speaker 1: Fig made everyone rent era appropriate tuxedos. Linda Carlini wore

1803
01:35:17,360 --> 01:35:20,519
Speaker 1: her mom's prom dress, Busy Phillips wore her own junior

1804
01:35:20,560 --> 01:35:23,600
Speaker 1: prom dress. They even had a mini graduation ceremony for

1805
01:35:23,720 --> 01:35:26,680
Speaker 1: Seth Rogan, who had dropped out of high school. M

1806
01:35:26,880 --> 01:35:31,519
Speaker 1: hm hm, this makes me want to cry. Uh Fie

1807
01:35:31,600 --> 01:35:33,960
Speaker 1: had rings made for him in Apatat with their names

1808
01:35:34,040 --> 01:35:36,680
Speaker 1: and Freaks and Geeks on them. I al still love that.

1809
01:35:36,760 --> 01:35:39,000
Speaker 1: Linda Carlini told Busy Phillips on an episode of her

1810
01:35:39,040 --> 01:35:42,960
Speaker 1: talk show that she soft stole her character's iconic army jacket.

1811
01:35:43,520 --> 01:35:45,639
Speaker 1: She said, I semi stole it because they didn't want

1812
01:35:45,640 --> 01:35:47,519
Speaker 1: me to take it. Then I sort of asked around,

1813
01:35:47,640 --> 01:35:51,360
Speaker 1: and because I'm too conscientious to be a shoplifter, so

1814
01:35:51,479 --> 01:35:53,240
Speaker 1: I asked around and then I took it and said,

1815
01:35:53,280 --> 01:35:57,120
Speaker 1: you know, if anybody ever needs this back, I guess

1816
01:35:57,160 --> 01:35:59,759
Speaker 1: when John apata got word that Freaksing Geeks was definitely

1817
01:35:59,800 --> 01:36:02,519
Speaker 1: get and canceled. Lenda CARLINI was about to appear on

1818
01:36:02,560 --> 01:36:05,559
Speaker 1: The Late Show with David Letterman to promote Freaks and Geeks,

1819
01:36:05,920 --> 01:36:08,280
Speaker 1: and this had always been a dream to appear on Letterman.

1820
01:36:08,520 --> 01:36:11,960
Speaker 1: So Apatow called her beforehand, apparently when she was in

1821
01:36:12,080 --> 01:36:14,360
Speaker 1: the limo on her way there, and broke the news,

1822
01:36:15,520 --> 01:36:18,880
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, the show is canceled. At her response, wait,

1823
01:36:19,000 --> 01:36:26,559
Speaker 1: Letterman's canceled. Good news and bad news, Linda, oh Man,

1824
01:36:26,680 --> 01:36:28,800
Speaker 1: this is the this is probably Oh yeah, this is

1825
01:36:28,920 --> 01:36:31,240
Speaker 1: this is You know how they say things get darkest

1826
01:36:31,280 --> 01:36:35,439
Speaker 1: before the dawn to the darkest. Uh Fi got the

1827
01:36:35,600 --> 01:36:38,639
Speaker 1: call that the show is canceled a few days after

1828
01:36:39,080 --> 01:36:43,120
Speaker 1: the unexpected death of his mother. Apatow recalled that underling

1829
01:36:43,240 --> 01:36:45,200
Speaker 1: calls and tells you the show is canceled. Then they

1830
01:36:45,280 --> 01:36:47,320
Speaker 1: say Garth is going to call it a little bit.

1831
01:36:47,760 --> 01:36:49,600
Speaker 1: They give you an hour to digest, so by the

1832
01:36:49,640 --> 01:36:51,759
Speaker 1: time he calls you, you don't really have the energy

1833
01:36:51,840 --> 01:36:54,479
Speaker 1: to argue. I always wondered if Garth had me on

1834
01:36:54,640 --> 01:36:58,080
Speaker 1: speakerphone with his underlings laughing as I cried and begged.

1835
01:36:59,040 --> 01:37:02,400
Speaker 1: Um san Levine said that the executive Scott Stasa actually

1836
01:37:02,479 --> 01:37:04,760
Speaker 1: called him. He said, I loved the show, but at

1837
01:37:04,800 --> 01:37:07,639
Speaker 1: the end of the day, it's a business. Seth Rogan

1838
01:37:07,680 --> 01:37:10,439
Speaker 1: tweeted in October the night before he had been in

1839
01:37:10,479 --> 01:37:13,200
Speaker 1: a room with Stassa and totally called him out on

1840
01:37:13,400 --> 01:37:18,280
Speaker 1: canceling the show. Um that NBC brass came to Paul

1841
01:37:18,400 --> 01:37:22,920
Speaker 1: Fieg's mom's funeral, he said, and then he said, and

1842
01:37:23,080 --> 01:37:26,559
Speaker 1: Judd got some secret joy of good. I'm glad they're

1843
01:37:26,560 --> 01:37:29,880
Speaker 1: all here. He made me laugh. He's enjoying the fact

1844
01:37:29,960 --> 01:37:31,760
Speaker 1: that they all had to come and see me in

1845
01:37:31,840 --> 01:37:37,320
Speaker 1: a diminished state. But in later years the cast did

1846
01:37:37,400 --> 01:37:40,760
Speaker 1: admit that it's brevity did give the show a kind

1847
01:37:40,800 --> 01:37:43,120
Speaker 1: of poignancy. It's just this little slice of life and

1848
01:37:43,160 --> 01:37:46,440
Speaker 1: the lives of these kids. And in the last episode

1849
01:37:47,240 --> 01:37:51,760
Speaker 1: pausing for spoilers, okay, Lindsay has to make a choice

1850
01:37:51,760 --> 01:37:54,680
Speaker 1: about attending an academic summit or following the Grateful Dead

1851
01:37:54,720 --> 01:37:56,800
Speaker 1: around for two weeks, and she opts to go with

1852
01:37:56,880 --> 01:37:59,559
Speaker 1: the dead, and this choice would have had a bad

1853
01:37:59,600 --> 01:38:01,840
Speaker 1: outcome for her in the plot of the show. If

1854
01:38:01,880 --> 01:38:04,840
Speaker 1: the series had continued, Judd apat was so season two

1855
01:38:04,880 --> 01:38:08,240
Speaker 1: would have found Lindsay quote having an extended acid trip

1856
01:38:08,520 --> 01:38:10,840
Speaker 1: while following the dead around and getting taken out of

1857
01:38:10,920 --> 01:38:13,960
Speaker 1: one of their shows on a stretcher while Queen's tire

1858
01:38:14,040 --> 01:38:17,800
Speaker 1: mother Down was playing. I don't really want to see that, so,

1859
01:38:18,120 --> 01:38:21,240
Speaker 1: you know, um, but since the series ended there with

1860
01:38:21,360 --> 01:38:24,160
Speaker 1: her getting in this you know, hippie van riding off

1861
01:38:24,160 --> 01:38:27,280
Speaker 1: into the sunset is beautiful little moment. It's this beautiful,

1862
01:38:27,439 --> 01:38:30,360
Speaker 1: idealistic teenage moment. And it goes back to that old

1863
01:38:30,439 --> 01:38:32,840
Speaker 1: Orson Wells quote, if you want a happy ending, that depends,

1864
01:38:32,880 --> 01:38:36,160
Speaker 1: of course, where you stop your story, and Judd Apatow

1865
01:38:36,280 --> 01:38:38,000
Speaker 1: likens it to the end of the Graduate, which is

1866
01:38:38,040 --> 01:38:40,800
Speaker 1: sort of great example of that Orison Wells thing. It

1867
01:38:40,960 --> 01:38:44,400
Speaker 1: ends on the bus kind of nineties seconds after the

1868
01:38:44,479 --> 01:38:47,479
Speaker 1: happy ending. They made it on the bus. He's stolen

1869
01:38:47,520 --> 01:38:49,479
Speaker 1: a lane from the wedding from the guy she doesn't

1870
01:38:49,479 --> 01:38:51,360
Speaker 1: want to get married from. They've gotten the way with it,

1871
01:38:51,800 --> 01:38:54,080
Speaker 1: and then the camera just holds on them as they

1872
01:38:54,200 --> 01:38:59,160
Speaker 1: kind of realized, they just starts to fall, which is

1873
01:38:59,560 --> 01:39:03,200
Speaker 1: beauty full. Yeah. John Apatow kind of likened that to

1874
01:39:03,280 --> 01:39:06,400
Speaker 1: the end of Freaks and Geeks too. Um. Weirdly, John

1875
01:39:06,439 --> 01:39:09,640
Speaker 1: Apatow says that MTV offered to produce more episodes of

1876
01:39:09,680 --> 01:39:12,200
Speaker 1: Freaks and Geeks. They just had made their own teen

1877
01:39:12,320 --> 01:39:15,799
Speaker 1: drama TV series, Undressed, and they wanted to do something similar,

1878
01:39:16,120 --> 01:39:18,400
Speaker 1: but they offered a much lower budget, which would mean

1879
01:39:18,439 --> 01:39:22,160
Speaker 1: a smaller cast and a diminished soundtrack. So ultimately Apatow

1880
01:39:22,280 --> 01:39:24,840
Speaker 1: and the gang passed on the offer, declaring, we all

1881
01:39:24,920 --> 01:39:27,080
Speaker 1: decided we didn't want to do a weaker version of

1882
01:39:27,160 --> 01:39:30,400
Speaker 1: the show and uh. In an interview with e W

1883
01:39:30,600 --> 01:39:33,160
Speaker 1: at the premiere of the Freaks and Geeks documentary, Paul

1884
01:39:33,240 --> 01:39:36,000
Speaker 1: Fieg revealed, I've been saying for fifteen years, I so

1885
01:39:36,240 --> 01:39:38,720
Speaker 1: want to do the Freaks and Geeks musical. I just

1886
01:39:38,840 --> 01:39:40,320
Speaker 1: got to write the book for it. But I think

1887
01:39:40,320 --> 01:39:42,439
Speaker 1: it will happen one day because it's just sitting there

1888
01:39:42,520 --> 01:39:46,559
Speaker 1: waiting to be done. That's cool. When John Francis Daily

1889
01:39:46,720 --> 01:39:51,160
Speaker 1: was directing the reboot of National Lampoon's Vacation, Yes, he

1890
01:39:51,240 --> 01:39:54,760
Speaker 1: directed that with Ed Helms. He originally had a plan

1891
01:39:54,880 --> 01:39:57,680
Speaker 1: to have Neil and Bill make cameos as drugged up

1892
01:39:57,680 --> 01:40:01,439
Speaker 1: attendees of a burning Man type festival, but I think

1893
01:40:01,479 --> 01:40:03,679
Speaker 1: it was shot, but it was ultimately cut. It would

1894
01:40:03,680 --> 01:40:05,720
Speaker 1: have been an incredible union of all three Geeks from

1895
01:40:05,720 --> 01:40:07,599
Speaker 1: Freaks and Geeks because I guess John had a small

1896
01:40:07,720 --> 01:40:10,160
Speaker 1: role in that movie too, but alas it was not

1897
01:40:10,320 --> 01:40:14,280
Speaker 1: to be. Yeah, and this is another thing, another incredibly

1898
01:40:14,320 --> 01:40:16,880
Speaker 1: heartwarming bit. I just man, I came away from this

1899
01:40:16,960 --> 01:40:21,520
Speaker 1: really liking both Jedda, hating Franco, and liking Jed apatown

1900
01:40:22,160 --> 01:40:24,960
Speaker 1: Paul Fiege a lot more. Appadel was so upset during

1901
01:40:25,000 --> 01:40:26,800
Speaker 1: the post production phase of the rest of the show

1902
01:40:26,880 --> 01:40:32,240
Speaker 1: that he herniated a disk. How clenching at the editing bag.

1903
01:40:34,680 --> 01:40:38,040
Speaker 1: He spent the next phase of his career basically attempting

1904
01:40:38,120 --> 01:40:41,360
Speaker 1: to pay this young his his cast back, or I

1905
01:40:41,400 --> 01:40:46,360
Speaker 1: guess pay them forward, um, keep together? Yeah. Yeah. He

1906
01:40:46,520 --> 01:40:49,280
Speaker 1: fought with the network to include Freaks and Geeks actors

1907
01:40:49,360 --> 01:40:51,559
Speaker 1: in his next show, which is the half hour college

1908
01:40:51,640 --> 01:40:55,320
Speaker 1: comedy Undeclared for Fox, but the network only picked up

1909
01:40:55,439 --> 01:40:58,840
Speaker 1: Rogan Segel Jason Segel to become a recurring character, and

1910
01:40:58,920 --> 01:41:02,120
Speaker 1: Samuelvine and Busy Phillips, among others from Freaking Geeks also

1911
01:41:02,160 --> 01:41:05,360
Speaker 1: guest Starret and then Siegel told The La Times that

1912
01:41:05,439 --> 01:41:07,840
Speaker 1: interview there was a character called Jason in the forty

1913
01:41:07,880 --> 01:41:10,720
Speaker 1: year old virgin and Judd said, I've written this for you,

1914
01:41:11,080 --> 01:41:13,639
Speaker 1: and Siegel says, I could not have been more excited.

1915
01:41:13,800 --> 01:41:16,080
Speaker 1: I hadn't worked in a while, but he couldn't get

1916
01:41:16,120 --> 01:41:19,800
Speaker 1: me approved. I wasn't famous enough. That was my low point.

1917
01:41:20,640 --> 01:41:22,960
Speaker 1: But it came back around for him because he didn't

1918
01:41:22,960 --> 01:41:25,360
Speaker 1: even have to audition for his role, his long running

1919
01:41:25,400 --> 01:41:27,839
Speaker 1: role on How I Met Your Mother because the creators

1920
01:41:27,880 --> 01:41:29,760
Speaker 1: were fans of freaks and geeks, and I think they've

1921
01:41:29,760 --> 01:41:31,720
Speaker 1: put a bunch of easter eggs for freaksing geeks into

1922
01:41:31,760 --> 01:41:33,880
Speaker 1: How I Met your Mother. And even then after you

1923
01:41:33,960 --> 01:41:37,120
Speaker 1: got that, Apatel didn't stop advocating for him. Uh. He

1924
01:41:37,200 --> 01:41:39,960
Speaker 1: has a bit part and Knocked Up, and Apatel helped

1925
01:41:40,000 --> 01:41:43,680
Speaker 1: him get forgetting Sarah Marshall Greenlit at Universal. And then

1926
01:41:44,040 --> 01:41:47,080
Speaker 1: Siegel tells this great anecdote, says, we were on a plane,

1927
01:41:47,160 --> 01:41:49,400
Speaker 1: Judd and I and he leaned out and let out

1928
01:41:49,439 --> 01:41:52,280
Speaker 1: a deliberate exhale, like you could tell joke was about

1929
01:41:52,320 --> 01:41:55,120
Speaker 1: to come. He said, I finally got you a lead

1930
01:41:55,160 --> 01:41:59,960
Speaker 1: in a movie. Now I can sleep. Seth Rogan said,

1931
01:42:00,000 --> 01:42:01,360
Speaker 1: it's part of me thinks the only reason I was

1932
01:42:01,400 --> 01:42:03,120
Speaker 1: in Knocked Up in four year old virgin Is, so

1933
01:42:03,320 --> 01:42:07,600
Speaker 1: Judd can like prove some NBC executive wrong, which is

1934
01:42:07,720 --> 01:42:10,600
Speaker 1: totally okay with me. You said that in documentary. It

1935
01:42:10,680 --> 01:42:13,360
Speaker 1: doesn't diminish it. In my eye. I'm totally okay to

1936
01:42:13,439 --> 01:42:17,720
Speaker 1: have a career that's based on vengeance and rage. Yeah.

1937
01:42:17,800 --> 01:42:20,200
Speaker 1: Jason Segel later joked to him on some panel, A

1938
01:42:20,320 --> 01:42:23,200
Speaker 1: lot of us have no higher education because of you, Judd.

1939
01:42:23,760 --> 01:42:26,679
Speaker 1: I guess Jason Segel skipped out on applying for college

1940
01:42:26,680 --> 01:42:29,240
Speaker 1: when he was cast on Freaks and Geeks. And I've

1941
01:42:29,280 --> 01:42:32,519
Speaker 1: read the both Busy Phillips and Lyndon CARDLINI dropped that college,

1942
01:42:32,640 --> 01:42:34,880
Speaker 1: and Seth As we talked about, dropped that high school.

1943
01:42:35,800 --> 01:42:38,080
Speaker 1: But it seemed to work out okay for all of them.

1944
01:42:38,720 --> 01:42:42,599
Speaker 1: It's truly insane the number of movies and TV shows

1945
01:42:42,680 --> 01:42:45,479
Speaker 1: that have inadvertently spun off of Freaks and Geeks. And

1946
01:42:45,720 --> 01:42:48,040
Speaker 1: Paul Fegas said that he looks to them as you know,

1947
01:42:48,200 --> 01:42:53,360
Speaker 1: they're successful children. Uh, it's just a dizzying family tree

1948
01:42:53,479 --> 01:42:58,439
Speaker 1: that spans Spiderman to the Office, Two Girls, Two Mad Men,

1949
01:42:58,600 --> 01:43:00,879
Speaker 1: to How I Met Your Mother, to Forget Sarah Marshall,

1950
01:43:01,200 --> 01:43:04,920
Speaker 1: Super Bad, Pineapple Express, Silicon Valley, forty Old Virgin Anchor,

1951
01:43:05,000 --> 01:43:09,240
Speaker 1: Man Bad Teacher, Knocked Up, Arrest of Development, Bride'smaids, The Vacation,

1952
01:43:09,280 --> 01:43:14,360
Speaker 1: and Ghostbuster's reboot, Blaze of Glory. So many incredible movies. Well, well,

1953
01:43:15,080 --> 01:43:19,240
Speaker 1: so many movies. A couple of good ones in there. Uh.

1954
01:43:20,439 --> 01:43:23,160
Speaker 1: Paul Fig wrote a piece for Vanity Fair where he

1955
01:43:23,280 --> 01:43:25,519
Speaker 1: talked about what each character would have gone on to

1956
01:43:25,600 --> 01:43:27,840
Speaker 1: do in the second season of Freaks and Geeks and

1957
01:43:27,960 --> 01:43:32,400
Speaker 1: beyond the second season, we should run down their potential futures. Now,

1958
01:43:32,920 --> 01:43:35,040
Speaker 1: Lindsay we talked about having an acid freak out at

1959
01:43:35,080 --> 01:43:37,160
Speaker 1: a dead show, and the rest of the series, or

1960
01:43:37,160 --> 01:43:39,800
Speaker 1: at least the second season, showed Lindsay totally losing the

1961
01:43:39,840 --> 01:43:42,360
Speaker 1: trust of her family. We wanted to show a parents

1962
01:43:42,400 --> 01:43:44,160
Speaker 1: in the eighties dealt with their kids who were really

1963
01:43:44,200 --> 01:43:47,360
Speaker 1: badly on drugs. He said, that was something we talked about.

1964
01:43:47,960 --> 01:43:50,599
Speaker 1: But I guess she has a happy ending. Paul Fig

1965
01:43:50,680 --> 01:43:52,240
Speaker 1: says that she would have ended up at some point

1966
01:43:52,320 --> 01:43:55,400
Speaker 1: in her twenties and Greenwich Village as a performance artist,

1967
01:43:55,640 --> 01:43:57,599
Speaker 1: and after that she probably would have become a human

1968
01:43:57,720 --> 01:44:01,280
Speaker 1: rights lawyer. That's nice. Yeah, Sam would have ended up

1969
01:44:01,280 --> 01:44:04,160
Speaker 1: in the drama club because Paul Fig said, that was

1970
01:44:04,240 --> 01:44:06,680
Speaker 1: my experience in school, and that was the character that

1971
01:44:06,800 --> 01:44:09,920
Speaker 1: was most closely based on himself. He said that bummed

1972
01:44:10,000 --> 01:44:12,320
Speaker 1: me out the most not getting to play that story out.

1973
01:44:12,600 --> 01:44:15,240
Speaker 1: There may have also been some plots around Sam growing tall,

1974
01:44:15,479 --> 01:44:18,560
Speaker 1: because in real life John Francis daily grew something like

1975
01:44:18,640 --> 01:44:22,040
Speaker 1: a foot in the year following the show's cancelation. Uh.

1976
01:44:22,439 --> 01:44:25,479
Speaker 1: Sam apparently also would have run against his ex, the

1977
01:44:25,600 --> 01:44:29,920
Speaker 1: cheerleader Cindy Sanders, for student body president, and jud Apatow

1978
01:44:29,960 --> 01:44:32,240
Speaker 1: said that he hoped Cindy Sanders and Sam Weir would

1979
01:44:32,240 --> 01:44:34,679
Speaker 1: have gone on to become mortal enemies, which I love.

1980
01:44:35,960 --> 01:44:41,599
Speaker 1: Neil would have been in a swing choir that rules hull.

1981
01:44:41,640 --> 01:44:44,200
Speaker 1: Fig said, I just thought he would really blossom in

1982
01:44:44,280 --> 01:44:45,960
Speaker 1: there and think he would kind of be the king

1983
01:44:46,040 --> 01:44:50,200
Speaker 1: of the school. Yeah, that's what you think about kids

1984
01:44:50,240 --> 01:44:53,400
Speaker 1: here and swing choir. We figured to give me his

1985
01:44:53,479 --> 01:44:57,599
Speaker 1: outlet while his parents were going through a really horrible divorce. Uh.

1986
01:44:57,760 --> 01:45:01,240
Speaker 1: And for Daniel James Franco's care, Paul Fig said that

1987
01:45:01,280 --> 01:45:03,479
Speaker 1: they always liked the idea that Daniel would probably end

1988
01:45:03,560 --> 01:45:08,320
Speaker 1: up in jail Lamb probably not. Franco weren't rich, He'd

1989
01:45:08,360 --> 01:45:14,000
Speaker 1: be in some legal troubles. Uh Uh. Bill the tall Geek.

1990
01:45:14,280 --> 01:45:16,920
Speaker 1: Actor Martin Starr said, because of the decisions I was

1991
01:45:17,000 --> 01:45:19,800
Speaker 1: making off camera, they had plans to gear Bill towards

1992
01:45:19,880 --> 01:45:22,640
Speaker 1: becoming a jock. In the second season. We mentioned him

1993
01:45:22,680 --> 01:45:24,479
Speaker 1: going to the gym in real life with Franco and

1994
01:45:24,520 --> 01:45:26,760
Speaker 1: getting cut up off. They kind of talked about the

1995
01:45:26,760 --> 01:45:29,280
Speaker 1: potential splitting us up as a threesome and the Geeks

1996
01:45:29,360 --> 01:45:32,000
Speaker 1: parting ways to some degree and me fitting in with

1997
01:45:32,040 --> 01:45:34,599
Speaker 1: a different crowd, which is actually a really good plot

1998
01:45:34,680 --> 01:45:38,680
Speaker 1: point because that's something that happens with friend groups in school. Uh.

1999
01:45:38,760 --> 01:45:40,800
Speaker 1: Paul fig adds he turned out to be good at

2000
01:45:40,840 --> 01:45:42,840
Speaker 1: basketball and started to get into it so that he

2001
01:45:42,920 --> 01:45:45,280
Speaker 1: was getting pulled a little more over to the jock side,

2002
01:45:45,520 --> 01:45:47,439
Speaker 1: which would create an odd little rift with him and

2003
01:45:47,479 --> 01:45:50,880
Speaker 1: the other Geeks in a sort of fitting aside his

2004
01:45:51,040 --> 01:45:55,360
Speaker 1: single mom, Mary's coach, Frederick's the gym teacher, so kind

2005
01:45:55,400 --> 01:45:58,400
Speaker 1: of fits him moving into the more of the jock direction. Uh.

2006
01:45:58,560 --> 01:46:01,080
Speaker 1: Paul Figs said that he wanted Kim Kelly to be pregnant,

2007
01:46:01,320 --> 01:46:03,599
Speaker 1: but it wasn't necessarily going to be her again off

2008
01:46:03,640 --> 01:46:06,519
Speaker 1: again boyfriend Daniels. I thought this actually happened when she

2009
01:46:06,640 --> 01:46:09,439
Speaker 1: was out on the road with Lindsley following the dead. Uh.

2010
01:46:09,680 --> 01:46:12,519
Speaker 1: For Nick Jason Segel's character, we were kind of moving

2011
01:46:12,600 --> 01:46:14,720
Speaker 1: Nick towards having to go into the army because of

2012
01:46:14,800 --> 01:46:17,639
Speaker 1: his badass dad. Is that's not a badasses Dad's scary?

2013
01:46:17,680 --> 01:46:20,320
Speaker 1: Does his dad get any better? No? His dad's a print. Okay,

2014
01:46:20,360 --> 01:46:22,720
Speaker 1: good because that was a real option for so many

2015
01:46:22,760 --> 01:46:25,280
Speaker 1: people in my school. But he would be desperately trying

2016
01:46:25,320 --> 01:46:30,360
Speaker 1: to avoid it. And then Uh, Ken Seth Rogan's character,

2017
01:46:30,800 --> 01:46:32,840
Speaker 1: fig says, we always liked that we had set up

2018
01:46:32,840 --> 01:46:35,479
Speaker 1: that he had rich parents. But Ken's such an enigma.

2019
01:46:35,760 --> 01:46:37,439
Speaker 1: I think he's the guy that just kind of hangs

2020
01:46:37,520 --> 01:46:40,679
Speaker 1: around town. We like to surprise people with Ken's character.

2021
01:46:41,080 --> 01:46:42,880
Speaker 1: What was the thing you'd least expect he would do

2022
01:46:43,240 --> 01:46:45,840
Speaker 1: or place he'd come from. I can completely see us

2023
01:46:45,880 --> 01:46:47,880
Speaker 1: loading him up with a lot of weird stuff, and

2024
01:46:47,960 --> 01:46:49,880
Speaker 1: I was sad we never got to show his parents

2025
01:46:50,160 --> 01:46:52,559
Speaker 1: and God only knows who we would have had him dating. Yeah,

2026
01:46:52,600 --> 01:46:54,920
Speaker 1: he was always my favorite character on the show. I

2027
01:46:55,000 --> 01:46:57,799
Speaker 1: had to say, all these future plans for these characters

2028
01:46:57,800 --> 01:47:01,240
Speaker 1: are kind of terrible. Wait, your favorite character, Seth Rogan yeah,

2029
01:47:02,080 --> 01:47:07,960
Speaker 1: who's your Jason Segel Siege thing? I know, I know,

2030
01:47:08,160 --> 01:47:10,120
Speaker 1: but I mean, just like the character wise, I feel like,

2031
01:47:10,200 --> 01:47:14,280
Speaker 1: can whatever. You don't need to relitigate this. We're into

2032
01:47:14,320 --> 01:47:17,360
Speaker 1: the twenty four pages. Well, we're on the home stretch.

2033
01:47:17,960 --> 01:47:21,880
Speaker 1: That's true, that's true. Um. Yeah, they're not great. They're

2034
01:47:21,880 --> 01:47:24,760
Speaker 1: not They're not really that good now that I think

2035
01:47:24,800 --> 01:47:26,760
Speaker 1: about it. I mean, it's interesting when you do think

2036
01:47:26,760 --> 01:47:28,800
Speaker 1: about the points that he's making, like teen pregnancy and

2037
01:47:28,880 --> 01:47:31,560
Speaker 1: drugs were such a big thing through the eighties. But

2038
01:47:31,840 --> 01:47:36,280
Speaker 1: I don't know, there's different show. Yeah, but there's also

2039
01:47:36,320 --> 01:47:38,720
Speaker 1: like some like why would he treat Lindsay like that? Man?

2040
01:47:42,040 --> 01:47:44,479
Speaker 1: Like I thought of opening like season twoh they're getting

2041
01:47:44,479 --> 01:47:50,960
Speaker 1: carried out of a dead concert at Yeah, um yeah,

2042
01:47:51,160 --> 01:47:52,720
Speaker 1: I just we found it. I found a couple of

2043
01:47:52,760 --> 01:47:54,960
Speaker 1: quotes too that I really like that illustrate the show.

2044
01:47:55,160 --> 01:47:56,840
Speaker 1: I mean, some of it is just the kids talking

2045
01:47:56,840 --> 01:47:59,160
Speaker 1: about how much fun they had, Like Jason Segel told

2046
01:47:59,360 --> 01:48:01,800
Speaker 1: NPR and two thousand nine, that was one of the

2047
01:48:01,840 --> 01:48:04,280
Speaker 1: best times in my life. We were all so young,

2048
01:48:04,360 --> 01:48:06,120
Speaker 1: and we were so naive that we kind of thought

2049
01:48:06,200 --> 01:48:10,080
Speaker 1: every experience would be like that, and it isn't every

2050
01:48:10,160 --> 01:48:14,080
Speaker 1: experience isn't like that. It was a really beautiful, beautiful time.

2051
01:48:14,960 --> 01:48:17,799
Speaker 1: Martin Starr was saying, trying to pin down the appeal

2052
01:48:17,840 --> 01:48:19,519
Speaker 1: of the show, and I think he got really close

2053
01:48:19,560 --> 01:48:22,120
Speaker 1: to it. He says, it doesn't pander, it's honest from

2054
01:48:22,160 --> 01:48:24,479
Speaker 1: the beginning, and I think everybody that brought it to

2055
01:48:24,600 --> 01:48:28,000
Speaker 1: life did it in such an honest way. Um, and continued,

2056
01:48:28,200 --> 01:48:30,400
Speaker 1: I can't express how fortunate I feel to have been

2057
01:48:30,439 --> 01:48:33,519
Speaker 1: a part of something so appreciated and so loved. I

2058
01:48:33,600 --> 01:48:36,080
Speaker 1: feel so fortunate that it's something I care so much

2059
01:48:36,120 --> 01:48:38,679
Speaker 1: about and that I can connect with people that connect

2060
01:48:38,760 --> 01:48:41,720
Speaker 1: with it. I got really, really lucky. I mentioned at

2061
01:48:41,720 --> 01:48:43,599
Speaker 1: the top of the episode that I it's a cliche,

2062
01:48:43,760 --> 01:48:45,360
Speaker 1: but I think the thing that I love about this

2063
01:48:45,400 --> 01:48:48,240
Speaker 1: show the most is um that it has heart, and

2064
01:48:48,360 --> 01:48:50,599
Speaker 1: not in a kind of cheesy, sit come a way

2065
01:48:50,680 --> 01:48:52,720
Speaker 1: that like other shows that I said to have heart,

2066
01:48:52,800 --> 01:48:59,519
Speaker 1: do you know heart's hurt. Having heart hurts a lot.

2067
01:48:59,720 --> 01:49:01,680
Speaker 1: It's x to be a team for most people, and

2068
01:49:02,240 --> 01:49:06,880
Speaker 1: Freaksing Geeks honors that in a really beautiful, bitter, sweet way. Um.

2069
01:49:07,160 --> 01:49:09,200
Speaker 1: And that's why it's stuck around. That's why it continues

2070
01:49:09,240 --> 01:49:12,280
Speaker 1: to resonate with so many people, and I mean, we're

2071
01:49:12,320 --> 01:49:14,479
Speaker 1: really fortunate that it is out there and it's pretty

2072
01:49:15,240 --> 01:49:17,600
Speaker 1: unaltered form. I mean, just having all the music in

2073
01:49:17,680 --> 01:49:20,360
Speaker 1: it and learning about all the struggles that they went

2074
01:49:20,520 --> 01:49:23,880
Speaker 1: to have it, you know, not being aired and having

2075
01:49:23,920 --> 01:49:26,880
Speaker 1: the season chopped up. It really is something that gets

2076
01:49:26,920 --> 01:49:28,640
Speaker 1: to live the way that it was always intended to.

2077
01:49:28,800 --> 01:49:31,240
Speaker 1: And that's just a nice little narrative you don't really

2078
01:49:31,400 --> 01:49:35,639
Speaker 1: ever see in the entertainment world. Hearts hurt a lot.

2079
01:49:35,920 --> 01:49:38,640
Speaker 1: That's an all time sentiment for this podcast. That's a

2080
01:49:38,720 --> 01:49:41,120
Speaker 1: great line. I don't think I could say it any better.

2081
01:49:42,040 --> 01:49:44,760
Speaker 1: Judd Apato talks about how this show still makes some cry,

2082
01:49:44,920 --> 01:49:47,599
Speaker 1: or at least parts of it, because it's kids reaching

2083
01:49:47,680 --> 01:49:50,800
Speaker 1: out and that's so hard to do at any age,

2084
01:49:50,880 --> 01:49:54,200
Speaker 1: but especially at that age. To offer your heart. It's

2085
01:49:54,200 --> 01:49:56,720
Speaker 1: a beautiful thing, and I think it's a beautiful note

2086
01:49:56,720 --> 01:50:00,240
Speaker 1: to end on. For those of you listening, We've both

2087
01:50:00,280 --> 01:50:03,200
Speaker 1: hope that you find your own big, gigantic drum kit

2088
01:50:03,320 --> 01:50:07,400
Speaker 1: out there, whatever it may be. Thanks for listening, everyone,

2089
01:50:07,479 --> 01:50:10,000
Speaker 1: This has been too much information. I'm Alex Hegel and

2090
01:50:10,040 --> 01:50:17,519
Speaker 1: I'm Jordan Runt Talk. We'll catch you next Time, Too

2091
01:50:17,640 --> 01:50:20,200
Speaker 1: Much Information was a production of I Heart Radio. The

2092
01:50:20,240 --> 01:50:23,400
Speaker 1: show's executive producers are Noel Brown and Jordan run Talk.

2093
01:50:23,560 --> 01:50:27,200
Speaker 1: The supervising producer is Mike John's. The show was researched, written,

2094
01:50:27,280 --> 01:50:29,960
Speaker 1: and hosted by Jordan run Talk and Alex Hegel, with

2095
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Speaker 1: original music by Seth Applebaum on the Ghost Funk Orchestra.

2096
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Speaker 1: If you like what you heard, please subscribe and leave

2097
01:50:35,600 --> 01:50:38,479
Speaker 1: us a review. For more podcast on iHeart Radio, visit

2098
01:50:38,520 --> 01:50:41,360
Speaker 1: the I heart Radio app, Apple podcast, or wherever you

2099
01:50:41,479 --> 01:50:42,599
Speaker 1: listen to your favorite shows.