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Speaker 1: Welcome back to another edition of the Frida Egg Podcast.

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Speaker 1: Today's episode is brought to you by our friends over

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Speaker 1: at b Draddy. I had a great time with the

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Speaker 1: guys from b Draddy and Summit Golf Brands this week at.

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Speaker 2: The PGA Show.

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Speaker 1: They were really helpful putting this podcast together with Brad

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Speaker 1: Faxon as well as last week's with Billy Draddy, and it.

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Speaker 2: Was a really great time.

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Speaker 1: Saw their new product line, lots of great stuff, you know,

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Speaker 1: pretty soon and I should be able to find it

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Speaker 1: at many of the pro shops across the country this summer.

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Speaker 2: So it's a great new tech fabric. Uh. Just a reminder,

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Speaker 1: stretch in it that makes you know all the different friends.

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Speaker 1: bdradty dot com. Now on to our conversation with Brad

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Speaker 1: faxon I.

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Speaker 3: Miss the Green. For example, I'm already upset when I

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Speaker 3: find my ball in the bunker, I'm really upset. And

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Speaker 3: when I find my ball in a fried egg Friday

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Speaker 3: egg and dreaded Frida egg, Frida egg, Frida egg egg

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Speaker 3: Frida egg, bride egg Lie, I'm about ready to run

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Speaker 3: off of the So you said just the facts. It's funny.

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Speaker 3: When I was looking at titles for my show, I

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Speaker 3: had done a charity event a few years ago and

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Speaker 3: called it Fax and Friends. You know, there's a show

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Speaker 3: on Fox called Fox and Friends, the Morning show. I

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Speaker 3: worked for Fox Sports. My wife wakes up every morning

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Speaker 3: turns on Fox and Friends. So I thought Fax and

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Speaker 3: Friends would be pretty good name. And then but just

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Speaker 3: the facts spelled Fax instead facts kind of I thought

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Speaker 3: that was a better way to go. And I like

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Speaker 3: how you just started in because the guys that I

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Speaker 3: like on radio, especially the guys I listened to in

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Speaker 3: New England when I was living in Rhode Island, that

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Speaker 3: there was a show on wee I in the morning,

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Speaker 3: The Dennis and Callahan Show was a pretty big show,

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Speaker 3: syndicated show, and they just started talking. They didn't and

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Speaker 3: everybody on Serious XM on PGA Tour Radio, you know,

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Speaker 3: Michael bad, whether it's tailor's ours are they start off talking, Hey,

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Speaker 3: it's name of the show station we're on. I mean,

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Speaker 3: people know that, you know. I just I think, like

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Speaker 3: you just let's have a conversation.

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Speaker 2: Well, so I think about it.

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Speaker 1: I had this epiphany when I interview a lot of

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Speaker 1: architects and they talk about constraints like if you put

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Speaker 1: a clubhouse here, you got to start here right and

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Speaker 1: you got to end here versus.

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Speaker 2: And I thought about it.

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Speaker 1: I was like, if I do an intro and I

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Speaker 1: introduce somebody, I have to start right there. I don't

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Speaker 1: get the ability to, like, if we have a conversation,

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Speaker 1: like I could cut this out if I wanted to

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Speaker 1: start our conversation fifteen minutes in, because that's where I

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Speaker 1: think it really kicks off. Well, I can't move things

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Speaker 1: around as easily if we do an intro exactly.

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Speaker 3: No, that makes a lot of sense to me. And

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Speaker 3: if you have something you want to talk about, just

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Speaker 3: start talking about it.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly.

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Speaker 3: And I don't know, there's too many rules sometimes on

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Speaker 3: the radio for my liking, where I have to reintroduce

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Speaker 3: the person I been talking to, Like, it just doesn't

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Speaker 3: feel right. It's not something we would do sitting on

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Speaker 3: this chair and couch together talking to each other.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, it's I mean, how's hosting and doing interviews?

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Speaker 2: Ben? After being on the other side.

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Speaker 3: You know, it's interesting. I went to when I first

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Speaker 3: got my card in nineteen eighty four, the PGA tour

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Speaker 3: offered some media in PR counseling from a woman named

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Speaker 3: Andrea Kirby, and I thought it was a great idea.

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Speaker 3: She had been at ESPN for a long time and

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Speaker 3: she was Her topic was to help you answer tough questions,

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Speaker 3: how to stay on point, how to move the conversation

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Speaker 3: in a direction that would benefit you, and ultimately how

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Speaker 3: to look good. And she talked about body language and

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Speaker 3: how important body language was when you were getting interviewed,

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Speaker 3: and she showed us an incredible example of a hockey

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Speaker 3: player after he had a game was over. She turned

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Speaker 3: a sound down guy had a towel over, and you

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Speaker 3: knew it was the end of the game, and you

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Speaker 3: just watched him answer this question that took about forty

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Speaker 3: five seconds. And then she paused the video and said,

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Speaker 3: what do you think just happened to this guy or

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Speaker 3: his team? And we all said, well, he got the

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Speaker 3: news that somebody's family died. They must have lost, he

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Speaker 3: must have given up the winning goal or whatever it was.

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Speaker 3: And he had just scored the winning goal in triple

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Speaker 3: overtime to win the Stanley Cup. And I'm looking at

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Speaker 3: this going she's right, because I never thought body language

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Speaker 3: could make such a difference. And smiling is important. People

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Speaker 3: like to see people that are happy. And even Michael Breed,

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Speaker 3: who has been a great friend to me and you know,

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Speaker 3: an advisor, really going on the radio, he says, the

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Speaker 3: more you can stand up when you do your show,

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Speaker 3: and the more you can smile when you talk, people

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Speaker 3: can hear your smile. And I'm going, that's ridiculous, but

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Speaker 3: it makes a lot of sense to me. They can

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Speaker 3: hear your happiness, your excitement. So I started the JUSTI

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Speaker 3: Fact Show almost exactly a year ago. Here at the

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Speaker 3: show I signed my contract and I think I learned

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Speaker 3: from this woman Andrew Kirby nineteen eighty four. That's a

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Speaker 3: long time ago. Yeah, how to speak better, how to

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Speaker 3: end a sentence a lot of times. You know. The

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Speaker 3: one thing I learned then was you keep talking sometimes

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Speaker 3: and you never stop talking. And if you were lucky

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Speaker 3: enough to watch Jim Nansen kind of Lisa Rice yesterday

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Speaker 3: at the titleist opening, Jim nantz is he's so in control.

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Speaker 3: He's never rushed, he's never hurried. He pauses and it

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Speaker 3: doesn't feel like you're waiting for him to say the

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Speaker 3: next thing, and it's just it's regular, it's normal. So

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Speaker 3: long answer to your question.

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Speaker 2: Well, it's amazing.

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Speaker 1: Like people that are very good at asking questions. It's

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Speaker 1: a real art because it's their brief but they're like

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Speaker 1: they get their point across so quickly.

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Speaker 2: I'm still it's funny.

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Speaker 1: I listened to myself self when I'm editing, and I'm like, God,

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Speaker 1: just stop talking.

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Speaker 3: Yes, and that you know we're talking about my interview

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Speaker 3: coming up. Scottie Cameron, and you've got to ask a short,

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Speaker 3: open ended question because people want to hear the person

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Speaker 3: you're talking to, and you know, you always got to

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Speaker 3: the conversation is going to drag in a direction and

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Speaker 3: then you got to break it back and you know,

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Speaker 3: get a few points across. But I think so your

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Speaker 3: original question for me being the host of a show,

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Speaker 3: I mean, I've had some friends tell me, Look, people

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Speaker 3: just want to hear what you have to think about

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Speaker 3: golf and golfing in the world. You don't need a

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Speaker 3: lot of guests. When I'm doing a show by myself

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Speaker 3: and not sitting in front of somebody, it's hard to

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Speaker 3: talk by yourself. I'm not looking at anybody. I'm looking

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Speaker 3: at four walls, so that's more difficult than having somebody

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Speaker 3: on the show. I'm lucky because my show's on Monday,

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Speaker 3: so there's always something to talk about after a weekend

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Speaker 3: of golf on all the tours, but everybody does that.

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Speaker 3: So I'm trying to get guests that people don't have

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Speaker 3: all the time, or thoughts people don't hear all the times,

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Speaker 3: so that show can be a little bit more unique.

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Speaker 3: And I'll throw my opinion in there. I'll get on that,

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Speaker 3: and I've enjoyed it. But I'm in a really interesting

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Speaker 3: part of my career as I've won't winded down from

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Speaker 3: playing golf to work in more in media, working for

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Speaker 3: Fox at the USGA so and then have my feet

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Speaker 3: in the game as an instructor with some top players.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, a few famous ones.

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Speaker 3: It's yeah, but I mean it's it's odd because I

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Speaker 3: don't know that I've seen a TV announcer that's really

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Speaker 3: involved in players games. And it can be I.

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Speaker 1: Guess costas a little bit with Paul like and it

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Speaker 1: was always when Paul Casey's coming down the stretch, he's

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Speaker 1: talking about like very intimate knowledge of the swing and

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Speaker 1: what happens to Paul when their pressure gets a little

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Speaker 1: you know, I.

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Speaker 3: Know in one of my I don't know if you'd

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Speaker 3: call this a stick or not. But when I first

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Speaker 3: met Rory McElroy, which is almost two years ago, he

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Speaker 3: was under contract with another putting and instructor, and I

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Speaker 3: was one of those that took a lot of lessons

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Speaker 3: and I knew what it was like to cheat on

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Speaker 3: an instructor. I wouldn't say cheat, but cheat. I told Roy.

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Speaker 3: The first thing I said to him as I said, Roy,

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Speaker 3: I'm not looking for any publicity here. I will never

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Speaker 3: say anything to anybody about you and I speaking. If

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Speaker 3: you go to the press and say something and then

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Speaker 3: somebody asks me, I'll just kind of repeat what you said.

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Speaker 3: But our stuff is sacred to me and you. And

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Speaker 3: I think that gave him pause to exhale and say

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Speaker 3: thank you. And it was uncomfortable because Kenyan, Phil Kenyon,

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Speaker 3: who's one of the most noted putting instructors, teaches I

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Speaker 3: mean justin Rose, Hendrick Stintson, Western Fleetwood. I'm missing other

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Speaker 3: good players Fitzpatrick and and Rory and you know, it's

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Speaker 3: it's hard, but and maybe even the stuff that they

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Speaker 3: worked on was correct helped his stroke get better. But

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Speaker 3: you know, maybe unlocking the door is what I helped him.

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Speaker 2: I've taught.

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Speaker 1: I talked with some pros yesterday, some club pros about

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Speaker 1: the idea, and I think this is so true with

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Speaker 1: teaching golf, is two teachers can be teaching the same thing,

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Speaker 1: but one it's conveying the message in a in a

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Speaker 1: in a way that the pupil understands it. Like you

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Speaker 1: could be teaching the same exact thing, but just the

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Speaker 1: way you convey the information, something clicks with one way

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Speaker 1: versus the other, and that feel or that thought really

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Speaker 1: resonates and all of a sudden it works.

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Speaker 3: It's fascinating to me to scheme how players' minds work,

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Speaker 3: sometimes in pictures, words or phrases. And I can give

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Speaker 3: you a great example of some time I spent with

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Speaker 3: Gary Woodland, who is another student now of Phil Kenyon,

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Speaker 3: but I spent a little time with him four or

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Speaker 3: five years ago. And as talented as Gary Woodland was

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Speaker 3: and is, he was a young golfer when I first

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Speaker 3: to talking to him. You know, he didn't plague golf

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Speaker 3: as a kid like most players on the tour do now.

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Speaker 3: And we were just having a conversation about putting, and

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Speaker 3: we were on a putting green at Old marsh Down

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Speaker 3: where I live, a beautiful old Pete Die course, and

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Speaker 3: I made a comment to him that when I was

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Speaker 3: putting my best, I always had to mark a putt

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Speaker 3: when I missed, because it ran far enough by the

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Speaker 3: hole that it wasn't a tap him. When I was

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Speaker 3: putting my best, I mean, when I'm not putting my best,

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Speaker 3: I'm a little more cautious, and then the speed's closer

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Speaker 3: to the hole, and people kind of assume that, oh,

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Speaker 3: he's got great touch when it ends up right by

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Speaker 3: the cop I think the most the most prolific putters

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Speaker 3: hit the ball with a little bit of authority. So

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Speaker 3: I just had that conversation. I never really said anything

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Speaker 3: more than that to Gary. And then the next week

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Speaker 3: he had a great first round and his pressroom comments

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Speaker 3: where I talked to Brad Paxton last week he told

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Speaker 3: me to hit it harder. Never said that. I didn't

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Speaker 3: say hit it harder, Gary, I said just that my

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Speaker 3: putts always went by the hole a little bit. But

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Speaker 3: how he interpreted my little phrase or my comment was

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Speaker 3: I need to hit it harder to make more putts.

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Speaker 2: It's interesting.

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Speaker 1: I think, like I grew up caddy in and played,

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Speaker 1: but when pressure comes putting, you start worrying about the

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Speaker 1: next putt instead of it seems like and it's always

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Speaker 1: pace oriented, right. It's just like whenever anybody has a

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Speaker 1: big putty, it's very rare to see somebody like, you know,

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Speaker 1: hit it with that pace that in most putts like

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Speaker 1: they go in when they go in there, you know

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Speaker 1: they've got pace to them.

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Speaker 3: I see that most of all, and look, I'm new

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Speaker 3: from the instructor side. I was a player, and because

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Speaker 3: you were a good player or a good putter doesn't

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Speaker 3: mean you're going to be a good instructor, does it.

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Speaker 3: You know, does Jack Nicholas because he was the best

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Speaker 3: player that ever lived or Tiger Woods, does that mean

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Speaker 3: they're going to be great instructors. You know, you have

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Speaker 3: to have a way about having a conversation or or

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Speaker 3: talking to them to help them. And you need to

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Speaker 3: learn about the person, the personality, how they think. And

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Speaker 3: you know, I did this for a long time. Well

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Speaker 3: I got better as I got older, and I've learned

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Speaker 3: a lot now from some of these putting instructors of

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Speaker 3: what they look at on the technical side of it.

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Speaker 3: And I've yet to have any player, whether they're a

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Speaker 3: great player or an aspiring player, come to me and

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Speaker 3: say I need more thoughts, I need to take more time,

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Speaker 3: and I need to try harder. I've never had any

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Speaker 3: great player, talented players say that to me. Now, beginner golfers,

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Speaker 3: they need a lot of instruction. And when people ask me,

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Speaker 3: is there a secret to this? And I say, it's time.

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Speaker 3: You know, there's not a shortcut to this. You know,

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Speaker 3: You're not going to be a great putter by taking

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Speaker 3: two lessons. You know, you've got to spend endless hours.

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Speaker 3: And I think later today when I talked to Cameron

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Speaker 3: to Scottie about putting, I get insulted when somebody says, well,

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Speaker 3: you're just lucky were born that way. And I'm like,

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Speaker 3: let's go back to when I was five or six

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Speaker 3: years old and first starting and how many hours and

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Speaker 3: how many times did I spend hitting putts from all

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Speaker 3: distances on all kinds of courses throughout a year. So yeah,

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Speaker 3: get me going that way. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: I think I was talking to Billy Hurly last time

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Speaker 1: and he was talking about like people that he's played

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Speaker 1: golf with all different walks of life, but success they

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Speaker 1: and he was talking about himself, and he said, you

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Speaker 1: know the thing is anybody that has, you know, that

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Speaker 1: reaches a high level of success in a field, they've

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Speaker 1: made a sacrifice that other people didn't want to make,

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Speaker 1: whether it was moving somewhere early in their career to

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Speaker 1: get ahead, like moving to Asia if you're you know,

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Speaker 1: in business and getting head that way, or in his case,

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Speaker 1: he's like the amount of time I've spent hitting three

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Speaker 1: foot Putts is something that nobody else would do, like

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Speaker 1: very few people would do.

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Speaker 3: Yes, yes, so I can go back. Reminds me of

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Speaker 3: in my college days. One of my college roommates was

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Speaker 3: on the baseball team. He was a picture for the

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Speaker 3: baseball team, and he was a good pitcher, but he

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Speaker 3: wasn't an aspiring professional. And the school, Furman University, had

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Speaker 3: a decent baseball program for a small Division one Double

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Speaker 3: A school. But I was so devoted to the game

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Speaker 3: that every class I took at Furman was between nine

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Speaker 3: and twelve, so I was always done at twelve, and

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Speaker 3: many of the days I'd go hit balls before my

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Speaker 3: nine o'clock class, so I didn't go out as late

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Speaker 3: as a lot of my friends. I wasn't crazy. I

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Speaker 3: mean I had fun certain times, but he didn't say

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Speaker 3: an He never said anything about it. And after our

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Speaker 3: first full year's room and he was I'm so impressed

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Speaker 3: with how disciplined you are, because he says I would

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Speaker 3: never be able to do that. And I never thought

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Speaker 3: of that as a sacrifice, you know. I thought like

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Speaker 3: when my eyes opened, I wanted to be outside hitting

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Speaker 3: golf balls. And most of the great players I don't

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Speaker 3: see these great players as today getting up at eleven

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Speaker 3: o'clock in the morning and trying to figure out what

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Speaker 3: their day is going to be, like most of them

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Speaker 3: have a little bit of a plan going on.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, it's I mean, that's the thing is all

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Speaker 1: the hours that go into it. So you you've talked

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Speaker 1: last night a lot about you know, getting thoughts out

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Speaker 1: of your head. And I'm a big proponent of this

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Speaker 1: with putting, how do you how do you get people

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Speaker 1: to get stuff out of their head in the first place?

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Speaker 2: Like what?

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Speaker 3: Okay? So there's I found there's two really good ways

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Speaker 3: to do it. First of all, I've played a lot

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Speaker 3: of golf with a lot of thoughts on my head swinging.

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Speaker 3: You know, I went to more teachers than anybody. I

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Speaker 3: can guarantee you I would probably lead the tour in

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Speaker 3: two categories one and maybe Ben Crenshaw would be ahead

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Speaker 3: of me. But I think I've played more of the

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Speaker 3: top one hundred courses than anybody. I think so. And

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Speaker 3: I think I've worked. I know I've worked and paid

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Speaker 3: for more instructors than anybody alive over eighty that's a

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Speaker 3: lot written checks to eighty different instructors. And I have

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Speaker 3: a list somewhere that's pretty funny to see. And I

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Speaker 3: get my balls busted all the time about it. So

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Speaker 3: I know what it's like to play with no thoughts,

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Speaker 3: one thought or fifty thoughts, and in putting, I don't

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Speaker 3: know why I was able to separate that and play

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Speaker 3: with zero to one, you know, or somewhere in between

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Speaker 3: zero and one is the right amount in my opinion.

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Speaker 3: So if I have somebody that comes to see me

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Speaker 3: and they have multiple thoughts, I kind of look at

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Speaker 3: it like if you're a big guy, if you're an

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Speaker 3: overweight guy and you're trying to lose weight, you don't

337
00:17:44,800 --> 00:17:50,120
Speaker 3: go from a bacon double cheeseburger to a turkey burger

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Speaker 3: or an impossible burger. You just take the bacon off first, right.

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Speaker 3: You got to go in layers. And somebody that has

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Speaker 3: one hundred thoughts you got to win down. So I

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00:18:01,119 --> 00:18:04,720
Speaker 3: actually add thoughts to them so they could get rid

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Speaker 3: of all the other ones something to hold on to,

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Speaker 3: and finding that magic is will take time to do it.

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Speaker 3: And then when I have somebody like Patrick Cantley who

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Speaker 3: had been to a bunch of instructors and every instructor

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Speaker 3: tells him you have a great stroke. Why aren't you

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Speaker 3: making putts? You know, that's the hardest thing to figure out,

348
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Speaker 3: because now it's more let's sit down, because every time

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Speaker 3: he hits a putt, people say, well, your stroke's perfect.

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Speaker 3: All the machines, all the technology tells you face some

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Speaker 3: path or square, temple's good, grip looks good. Pat you

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Speaker 3: know everything, and you're like, holy smokes, this this is

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Speaker 3: going to take some time too. So that's the two

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Speaker 3: ends of the spectrums. And I rarely see it. And

355
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Speaker 3: I'm friendly with I know Phil Keny a little bit.

356
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Speaker 3: David Orro is a bit of big help to me

357
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Speaker 3: and learning about biomechanics of the putting stroke, the weight

358
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Speaker 3: shifts and everything that happen, wrist angles changes, and I'm like,

359
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Speaker 3: oh my gosh when he starts talking about this stuff.

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Speaker 3: He can look at a player in one stroke and

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Speaker 3: pick apart the mechanical side of that. But if you

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Speaker 3: start trying to change a player's older or radial deviation,

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00:19:14,600 --> 00:19:17,160
Speaker 3: you know, words that I hate hearing an instructor talk

364
00:19:17,200 --> 00:19:22,600
Speaker 3: about to a player. It can scare somebody. Yeah, you know,

365
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Speaker 3: players don't want to make big changes. They and they

366
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Speaker 3: want to keep their feels and with all the technology now,

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00:19:32,800 --> 00:19:35,400
Speaker 3: I'm fascinated with all the informations out there and how

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00:19:35,480 --> 00:19:39,000
Speaker 3: some of that's transferred to a player, and no wonder

369
00:19:39,040 --> 00:19:41,679
Speaker 3: so many guys are getting afraid of chipping and putting,

370
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Speaker 3: and chipping's become an epidemic. It used to be just

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00:19:44,880 --> 00:19:46,919
Speaker 3: hit a chip shot, never thought about now like there's

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Speaker 3: ten ways to hit one shot.

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Speaker 1: I'm like, what it is a you know, a comment

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Speaker 1: from last year with the rules changed with the pin,

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Speaker 1: and I'll never forget, you know, Adam Scott had a

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Speaker 1: great year actually statistically on and around the green and

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Speaker 1: he talked about with putting with a pin and how

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Speaker 1: it you know, the pin being in reminded him of

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00:20:05,640 --> 00:20:07,760
Speaker 1: a kid when he would just go to the practice

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00:20:07,800 --> 00:20:10,280
Speaker 1: screen and just hit putts and everything would hit the

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Speaker 1: pin and go in. And it's like almost like you

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Speaker 1: could tell it from that comment. It almost freed his mind.

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Speaker 1: That like liberated him and brought back like a much

384
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Speaker 1: simpler time, because every every professional remembers when they're a kid.

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Speaker 1: Somehow golf can get more difficult the more you work

386
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Speaker 1: at it.

387
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Speaker 3: I think every one of us played on a course

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Speaker 3: that had a short, little flagstick on a putting green.

389
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Speaker 3: I don't know if you'd call it a flag stick.

390
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Speaker 3: Whatever that thing was where you had the handle, you

391
00:20:41,680 --> 00:20:45,480
Speaker 3: could pull it up and it was metal, and you

392
00:20:45,520 --> 00:20:46,919
Speaker 3: could hit the ball hard and you could make it

393
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Speaker 3: make a loud noise. And we challenge ourselves, how hard

394
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Speaker 3: can you hit this in and make the ball go in?

395
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Speaker 3: And you know, maybe we're too lazy to pull it

396
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Speaker 3: out of there to hit practice putts, or maybe you

397
00:20:58,119 --> 00:20:59,840
Speaker 3: wanted to hit all three of your balls in there

398
00:20:59,840 --> 00:21:02,720
Speaker 3: and scoop it up and catch all three balls at once.

399
00:21:02,880 --> 00:21:06,199
Speaker 3: You know when you did that, And I understand the

400
00:21:06,240 --> 00:21:08,840
Speaker 3: mindset from Adam Scott and how hey, if that brings

401
00:21:08,880 --> 00:21:12,080
Speaker 3: me back to that childlike memories enthusiasm that I had

402
00:21:13,480 --> 00:21:16,440
Speaker 3: or I didn't worry about missing, I think that's cool.

403
00:21:16,920 --> 00:21:19,640
Speaker 3: I hate the rule. I hate the rule. I think

404
00:21:19,680 --> 00:21:25,199
Speaker 3: it's degrading to the game. I can't imagine at the

405
00:21:25,240 --> 00:21:28,600
Speaker 3: Masters this year somebody having a five foot or to

406
00:21:28,640 --> 00:21:34,280
Speaker 3: win and leaving the flagstick in. It's like, what are

407
00:21:34,280 --> 00:21:36,960
Speaker 3: we doing playing a late nine holes? I mean, take

408
00:21:37,000 --> 00:21:39,920
Speaker 3: the flagstick out? Is it really speeding up the game? No?

409
00:21:40,160 --> 00:21:42,280
Speaker 3: As a matter a lot of caddies tell me, you know,

410
00:21:42,440 --> 00:21:44,440
Speaker 3: some guys wanted in, some guys wanted out. We're asking

411
00:21:44,520 --> 00:21:48,960
Speaker 3: questions and it certainly is not growing the game. Do

412
00:21:49,000 --> 00:21:51,720
Speaker 3: you think somebody's ever driven by, you know, a public

413
00:21:51,760 --> 00:21:53,800
Speaker 3: course and said, oh, they leave the flagsticks in, let's

414
00:21:53,800 --> 00:21:56,760
Speaker 3: go play golf today. You know, So why why are

415
00:21:56,760 --> 00:21:57,480
Speaker 3: we doing this? Well?

416
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Speaker 2: And I think this is I get rules.

417
00:22:00,840 --> 00:22:02,720
Speaker 1: Like one of the things that drives me nuts is

418
00:22:02,760 --> 00:22:04,000
Speaker 1: like interpretation of them.

419
00:22:04,080 --> 00:22:04,240
Speaker 3: Right.

420
00:22:04,520 --> 00:22:07,320
Speaker 1: This is a rule that was created for when me

421
00:22:07,400 --> 00:22:10,520
Speaker 1: and my buddy are playing trying to cram in nine

422
00:22:10,560 --> 00:22:12,880
Speaker 1: holes at the end of the day, we're chasing the sun.

423
00:22:13,280 --> 00:22:16,600
Speaker 1: I'm one hundred feet away and I'm putting too a pin.

424
00:22:16,760 --> 00:22:18,800
Speaker 1: I could putt with it in. You know that that

425
00:22:19,000 --> 00:22:22,240
Speaker 1: was I think, I assume is the attention intention of

426
00:22:22,240 --> 00:22:24,199
Speaker 1: the rule, Like I don't have to go pull the

427
00:22:24,240 --> 00:22:30,960
Speaker 1: flag out, And because I and but professional golfers their

428
00:22:31,080 --> 00:22:36,320
Speaker 1: job is to look for ways to get tiny incremental advantages, right,

429
00:22:36,600 --> 00:22:39,320
Speaker 1: And this is a method of you know, hey, I

430
00:22:39,320 --> 00:22:42,480
Speaker 1: can get a little advantage here if I if I

431
00:22:42,800 --> 00:22:46,439
Speaker 1: some people think I personally believe like I've made putts

432
00:22:46,480 --> 00:22:48,960
Speaker 1: with it out my whole life. I can't look at

433
00:22:48,960 --> 00:22:51,199
Speaker 1: it and make a putt with it in, because like

434
00:22:51,240 --> 00:22:52,600
Speaker 1: it's just a foreign thing to me.

435
00:22:53,280 --> 00:22:58,000
Speaker 3: That's so I have so many responses to this. As

436
00:22:58,040 --> 00:23:00,600
Speaker 3: a kid, I was a caddy, My dad was a golfer.

437
00:23:01,640 --> 00:23:04,280
Speaker 3: I grew up with the game. I learned rules, the

438
00:23:04,359 --> 00:23:07,600
Speaker 3: number one rule, play it as it lies. That's the

439
00:23:07,600 --> 00:23:09,920
Speaker 3: first thing we learned about the king. I'm Patrick Reid,

440
00:23:10,600 --> 00:23:14,240
Speaker 3: so that's one thing. And then you know, the flagstick

441
00:23:14,320 --> 00:23:18,040
Speaker 3: was to be removed. I remember playing with a member

442
00:23:18,040 --> 00:23:20,200
Speaker 3: at my club. I was young, and this guy's name

443
00:23:20,240 --> 00:23:22,840
Speaker 3: was Ralph Gunderson. His wife was my gym teacher in

444
00:23:22,880 --> 00:23:25,399
Speaker 3: elementary school, and Ralph was a good player. I caddied

445
00:23:25,400 --> 00:23:26,920
Speaker 3: forim a lot, and it just so happened that he said,

446
00:23:26,920 --> 00:23:28,040
Speaker 3: you want to come play a few holes with me.

447
00:23:28,040 --> 00:23:30,119
Speaker 3: We were in a cart and I'll never forget this.

448
00:23:30,200 --> 00:23:31,760
Speaker 3: I was on the twelfth hole. We were playing like

449
00:23:31,760 --> 00:23:35,160
Speaker 3: an emergency nine, and I had like a thirty footer

450
00:23:35,920 --> 00:23:37,639
Speaker 3: and the flagstick was in and he's just kind of

451
00:23:37,640 --> 00:23:39,479
Speaker 3: standing on the fringe waiting for me to putt, and

452
00:23:39,520 --> 00:23:41,720
Speaker 3: I said, mister Gunderson, can you grab the flag for me?

453
00:23:42,720 --> 00:23:45,040
Speaker 3: And I would have never considered even putty. Even this

454
00:23:45,240 --> 00:23:48,280
Speaker 3: was meaningless nine holes with the flagstick in, and he

455
00:23:48,400 --> 00:23:51,840
Speaker 3: kind of was like, oh, and he walked over and

456
00:23:52,280 --> 00:23:54,359
Speaker 3: took the flag. It was, you know, it's one of

457
00:23:54,400 --> 00:23:58,040
Speaker 3: those things. I followed that rule, and now that it's changed,

458
00:23:58,080 --> 00:24:01,119
Speaker 3: I'm like, it's I think it's cheap the game. There's

459
00:24:01,119 --> 00:24:05,119
Speaker 3: no sense in it. And now there's debates about You

460
00:24:05,119 --> 00:24:07,879
Speaker 3: can listen to Mark Brody, you can listen to Dave Pells.

461
00:24:07,920 --> 00:24:10,639
Speaker 3: You can listen to the professor at Berkeley that said

462
00:24:11,320 --> 00:24:13,920
Speaker 3: keeping the flag stick in helps most of the time,

463
00:24:13,960 --> 00:24:16,399
Speaker 3: unless you're going to miss it. Hit the flagstick on

464
00:24:16,440 --> 00:24:19,160
Speaker 3: the low side of a breaking putt has more chances

465
00:24:19,200 --> 00:24:21,800
Speaker 3: to go out than go in. So I'm so confused.

466
00:24:21,800 --> 00:24:24,359
Speaker 3: I don't know what's right. But what I do know

467
00:24:25,680 --> 00:24:28,439
Speaker 3: I was in a conversation with Bob Rotella and Dave Pells.

468
00:24:28,440 --> 00:24:30,480
Speaker 3: Now Pells would have been the first guy that studied

469
00:24:31,280 --> 00:24:33,000
Speaker 3: I don't know if you'd call this science. He likes

470
00:24:33,000 --> 00:24:36,840
Speaker 3: to call himself a scientist, but his opinion was it

471
00:24:36,880 --> 00:24:39,040
Speaker 3: was better to keep the flag stick in when you

472
00:24:39,040 --> 00:24:41,399
Speaker 3: were off the green. I remember that, Remember that I

473
00:24:41,480 --> 00:24:43,679
Speaker 3: had more chances of the ball going in than not

474
00:24:43,800 --> 00:24:49,960
Speaker 3: going in. And Rotella said to him Dave, I just

475
00:24:50,000 --> 00:24:53,479
Speaker 3: tell my players, whatever makes you more confident, and Pell's

476
00:24:53,480 --> 00:24:55,760
Speaker 3: got no, it has nothing to do with confidence because

477
00:24:55,760 --> 00:24:57,960
Speaker 3: the ball's rolling. It doesn't know if you're confident or not.

478
00:24:58,000 --> 00:25:00,399
Speaker 3: And Roteller says no, but you have to get the

479
00:25:00,400 --> 00:25:02,560
Speaker 3: ball rolling. And if the flag stick in makes you

480
00:25:02,600 --> 00:25:04,639
Speaker 3: more confident, you have a better chance of making it.

481
00:25:04,720 --> 00:25:06,680
Speaker 3: If the flagstick out makes you more confident, you have

482
00:25:06,720 --> 00:25:09,320
Speaker 3: a better chance of making So I'm a big Rotella guy,

483
00:25:09,359 --> 00:25:11,879
Speaker 3: and I Pels was kind of speechless and get got angry.

484
00:25:11,880 --> 00:25:13,840
Speaker 3: It was funny, And I think.

485
00:25:13,680 --> 00:25:15,840
Speaker 1: This is like one of the most compelling things with

486
00:25:15,960 --> 00:25:20,159
Speaker 1: golf is hitting on. This is like there's a constant

487
00:25:20,440 --> 00:25:26,240
Speaker 1: tussle between like the science and the the just the

488
00:25:27,040 --> 00:25:30,159
Speaker 1: mental aspect of golf, Like is it art or is

489
00:25:30,200 --> 00:25:30,880
Speaker 1: it science?

490
00:25:30,960 --> 00:25:32,040
Speaker 2: And is it like there?

491
00:25:32,320 --> 00:25:35,800
Speaker 1: And I feel and I'm interested to hear your perspective.

492
00:25:35,920 --> 00:25:38,639
Speaker 1: Working with tour players and being on tour for years,

493
00:25:40,920 --> 00:25:45,080
Speaker 1: tour players typically fall and there are really analytical ones

494
00:25:45,280 --> 00:25:50,399
Speaker 1: and really just field based players, right, And there's not

495
00:25:50,560 --> 00:25:51,720
Speaker 1: a ton in the middle ground.

496
00:25:53,080 --> 00:25:55,240
Speaker 3: You're saying, there's not a ton in the middle ground. Yeah,

497
00:25:55,520 --> 00:26:00,720
Speaker 3: to me, it's it's so individualistic on an how a

498
00:26:00,760 --> 00:26:06,040
Speaker 3: player plays and how they think. And the greatest two

499
00:26:06,119 --> 00:26:09,840
Speaker 3: players we said it earlier, Jack and Tiger. You can

500
00:26:09,880 --> 00:26:13,240
Speaker 3: see them behind the ball, painting a picture, an image

501
00:26:13,240 --> 00:26:16,959
Speaker 3: in their mind, and very deliberate, both of them. Tiger

502
00:26:17,080 --> 00:26:20,960
Speaker 3: takes three or four practice swings almost every shot. Jack

503
00:26:20,960 --> 00:26:25,119
Speaker 3: seemed to stand behind that ball all the time. And

504
00:26:25,440 --> 00:26:27,639
Speaker 3: the image of Jack on the eighteenth hole in nineteen

505
00:26:27,680 --> 00:26:29,719
Speaker 3: eighty six at the Masters, he was hitting threewood off

506
00:26:29,760 --> 00:26:32,560
Speaker 3: that tee. I don't know if you remember it, but

507
00:26:33,119 --> 00:26:37,199
Speaker 3: he would always picture a shot and he hit this

508
00:26:37,240 --> 00:26:40,000
Speaker 3: beautiful little almost like a pull cut fade all the time.

509
00:26:40,520 --> 00:26:43,080
Speaker 3: And he had teed the ball up fairly high for

510
00:26:43,119 --> 00:26:48,440
Speaker 3: a threewood back then with persimmon, and he always kind

511
00:26:48,440 --> 00:26:50,880
Speaker 3: of walked up with the club dangling in his right

512
00:26:50,920 --> 00:26:52,960
Speaker 3: hand and his left hand kind of shaking as he

513
00:26:53,480 --> 00:26:56,280
Speaker 3: circled into his path to get to address the ball.

514
00:26:56,840 --> 00:27:00,119
Speaker 3: And in this particular shot, he got up over, he

515
00:27:00,200 --> 00:27:04,960
Speaker 3: went through his waggles and he stepped away and he

516
00:27:05,760 --> 00:27:08,359
Speaker 3: started looking at his glove like something was wrong with

517
00:27:08,400 --> 00:27:12,760
Speaker 3: his glove, when he clearly wasn't able to make this

518
00:27:12,800 --> 00:27:15,479
Speaker 3: swing because he didn't have the picture and ready, and

519
00:27:15,720 --> 00:27:19,960
Speaker 3: one of the announcers said, oh, Jack's nervous here, you know,

520
00:27:20,200 --> 00:27:24,040
Speaker 3: and people would get concerned when somebody stepped away from

521
00:27:24,040 --> 00:27:25,840
Speaker 3: a shot, And to me, it's like, no, he's gathering

522
00:27:25,840 --> 00:27:28,240
Speaker 3: his thoughts here. And then he piped his three would

523
00:27:28,280 --> 00:27:32,200
Speaker 3: write down the middle, and I'm like, that's a guy

524
00:27:32,240 --> 00:27:34,840
Speaker 3: that is committed. And if you watch Justin Thomas this

525
00:27:34,920 --> 00:27:41,320
Speaker 3: year in the playoff at Kapolua, where both Shoffley and

526
00:27:41,440 --> 00:27:44,200
Speaker 3: Reed had missed putts that they said they got gusted,

527
00:27:44,880 --> 00:27:46,600
Speaker 3: Justin Thomas had about a three foot putt to win

528
00:27:46,800 --> 00:27:49,840
Speaker 3: and you saw him step away And I texted him

529
00:27:49,840 --> 00:27:53,280
Speaker 3: afterwards because he texted he said, hey, look the wind

530
00:27:53,320 --> 00:27:55,280
Speaker 3: was blowing. It was gusted. I wasn't going to let

531
00:27:55,880 --> 00:27:58,640
Speaker 3: augusta wind make me blow this put or blow this tournament.

532
00:27:58,880 --> 00:28:00,960
Speaker 3: And I think that's what the great players have always

533
00:28:01,000 --> 00:28:01,600
Speaker 3: been able to do.

534
00:28:02,400 --> 00:28:05,800
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's like when the second something that takes you

535
00:28:05,880 --> 00:28:09,240
Speaker 1: out of that moment, or you think about something other

536
00:28:09,320 --> 00:28:12,080
Speaker 1: than just what's at hand, you got it to step

537
00:28:12,119 --> 00:28:14,119
Speaker 1: off because it.

538
00:28:13,840 --> 00:28:15,120
Speaker 2: Breaks the train of thought.

539
00:28:15,160 --> 00:28:17,560
Speaker 1: It's like nothing ever goes well when you start thinking

540
00:28:17,560 --> 00:28:18,360
Speaker 1: about something else.

541
00:28:18,480 --> 00:28:22,639
Speaker 3: No, And for Rory McElroy, last year at the Players Championship.

542
00:28:23,280 --> 00:28:26,200
Speaker 3: I mean it was to me a monumental occasion. On

543
00:28:26,600 --> 00:28:29,800
Speaker 3: the twelfth hole the final round, it's the driveable par

544
00:28:29,880 --> 00:28:31,520
Speaker 3: four water on the left. It's a newer hole that

545
00:28:31,640 --> 00:28:36,760
Speaker 3: was renovated two years ago. Maybe players can easily reach

546
00:28:36,800 --> 00:28:38,320
Speaker 3: the hole. Rory could do it with the three when

547
00:28:38,600 --> 00:28:40,840
Speaker 3: he left the ball a little bit to the right

548
00:28:40,880 --> 00:28:42,280
Speaker 3: and short of the green off the took perfect t

549
00:28:42,400 --> 00:28:44,560
Speaker 3: shot and the flagstick was left towards the water and

550
00:28:44,600 --> 00:28:46,480
Speaker 3: he chipped it a little bit by maybe ten or

551
00:28:46,480 --> 00:28:49,120
Speaker 3: twelve feet close to the fringe, and he had now

552
00:28:49,120 --> 00:28:51,560
Speaker 3: a kind of an uphill left to right breaking putt

553
00:28:51,840 --> 00:28:54,080
Speaker 3: and it was a pivotal putt. It was critical there

554
00:28:54,560 --> 00:28:58,200
Speaker 3: and maybe a cup's worth of break. And he got

555
00:28:58,240 --> 00:29:01,240
Speaker 3: up over the putt and is we worked a lot

556
00:29:01,240 --> 00:29:05,640
Speaker 3: on routine and then he stepped away and he readjusted

557
00:29:05,640 --> 00:29:08,760
Speaker 3: his line because a lot of times, you know, like

558
00:29:08,840 --> 00:29:11,280
Speaker 3: most players, he had an underread going. And he said, look,

559
00:29:11,280 --> 00:29:13,000
Speaker 3: I knew I needed to play a little bit more break.

560
00:29:13,240 --> 00:29:16,160
Speaker 3: So he went through his routine again and made it,

561
00:29:16,520 --> 00:29:19,600
Speaker 3: and maybe a year before that he wouldn't have done it.

562
00:29:20,400 --> 00:29:24,400
Speaker 3: So as a player myself, that did situational stuff is

563
00:29:24,400 --> 00:29:26,680
Speaker 3: a lot of the things we talk about. So it's

564
00:29:27,360 --> 00:29:30,520
Speaker 3: that wouldn't be mechanics, right, but it's like, how are

565
00:29:30,600 --> 00:29:33,320
Speaker 3: you going to respond to something like that? How are

566
00:29:33,320 --> 00:29:34,880
Speaker 3: you going to respond when you've had a series of

567
00:29:34,880 --> 00:29:36,880
Speaker 3: putts that you've hit perfectly that go over the edge

568
00:29:36,880 --> 00:29:38,480
Speaker 3: of the hole and don't go in. How do you

569
00:29:38,520 --> 00:29:39,280
Speaker 3: talk to yourself?

570
00:29:39,400 --> 00:29:41,360
Speaker 1: And I feel like that is like it was like

571
00:29:41,480 --> 00:29:45,800
Speaker 1: kind of for Rory with what he went through the

572
00:29:45,880 --> 00:29:49,040
Speaker 1: last few years with putter, Like that's a monumental putt

573
00:29:49,040 --> 00:29:52,720
Speaker 1: because if you're not putting, if you're not putting well

574
00:29:53,320 --> 00:29:57,840
Speaker 1: and uphill ten foot good breaking left to right putt

575
00:29:57,840 --> 00:30:00,920
Speaker 1: as a righty is you know, that's so such a

576
00:30:01,000 --> 00:30:03,560
Speaker 1: hard put to it because to hit it the pace

577
00:30:03,720 --> 00:30:05,560
Speaker 1: to get that ball to go in because you know

578
00:30:05,600 --> 00:30:07,640
Speaker 1: the Tennessee has missed it short and right, like we

579
00:30:07,760 --> 00:30:11,360
Speaker 1: talked about and coming down the stretch and pressure. Do

580
00:30:11,400 --> 00:30:13,480
Speaker 1: you have a moment from your career that like stands

581
00:30:13,480 --> 00:30:17,880
Speaker 1: out where you were really working on something and coming

582
00:30:17,920 --> 00:30:20,960
Speaker 1: down the stretch, you know it clicked and that just

583
00:30:21,040 --> 00:30:23,520
Speaker 1: set off a really great run of golf.

584
00:30:24,040 --> 00:30:28,080
Speaker 3: I have two putts that I think have helped me

585
00:30:28,160 --> 00:30:33,120
Speaker 3: to understand how good the human body can work and

586
00:30:33,480 --> 00:30:38,000
Speaker 3: the mind works. One of them was in Australia. I

587
00:30:38,560 --> 00:30:40,160
Speaker 3: had a two shot lead at the Australian Open. I

588
00:30:40,160 --> 00:30:41,800
Speaker 3: played the first two rounds of Greg Norman when he

589
00:30:41,800 --> 00:30:44,320
Speaker 3: was number one in the world. It was a Metropolitan,

590
00:30:44,320 --> 00:30:46,840
Speaker 3: a great Mackenzie course, and I had been going down

591
00:30:46,840 --> 00:30:51,240
Speaker 3: to Australia for the past few years and had just

592
00:30:51,320 --> 00:30:53,720
Speaker 3: learned about all these sand belt courses and I'm like, Wow,

593
00:30:53,920 --> 00:30:59,560
Speaker 3: the best greens, hard conditions, firm, windy, and this eighteenth toll.

594
00:31:00,200 --> 00:31:02,880
Speaker 3: If I made five, I was going to win. Part four.

595
00:31:03,360 --> 00:31:04,840
Speaker 3: Hit a three foot off the tee to be saved,

596
00:31:04,920 --> 00:31:07,400
Speaker 3: hit it down the middle, hit it just on the

597
00:31:07,440 --> 00:31:09,240
Speaker 3: right fringe. Most of the trouble in that hole was

598
00:31:09,280 --> 00:31:11,320
Speaker 3: on the left. And I putted it up to about

599
00:31:11,360 --> 00:31:15,760
Speaker 3: four or five feet fast greens. And I didn't care

600
00:31:15,800 --> 00:31:17,560
Speaker 3: if I made this put or not. I really didn't.

601
00:31:17,640 --> 00:31:20,120
Speaker 3: All I knew is if I got it to the lip,

602
00:31:20,320 --> 00:31:23,120
Speaker 3: I could make the next putt. So my thought was

603
00:31:23,560 --> 00:31:25,520
Speaker 3: I want this to get to the front edge and

604
00:31:25,560 --> 00:31:28,080
Speaker 3: trickle in or I'll be There was no ego in

605
00:31:28,080 --> 00:31:30,320
Speaker 3: this putt. I didn't have to make this to win,

606
00:31:31,160 --> 00:31:34,280
Speaker 3: and I hit this putt and it got to the

607
00:31:34,400 --> 00:31:36,600
Speaker 3: edge and it sat there like Tiger's chip on sixteen

608
00:31:36,640 --> 00:31:39,880
Speaker 3: in Augusta, and it fell in. And it's just like

609
00:31:40,360 --> 00:31:43,240
Speaker 3: when you tell your brain when you have that picture

610
00:31:43,240 --> 00:31:45,560
Speaker 3: that's so clear about what you want to do. It's

611
00:31:45,600 --> 00:31:48,720
Speaker 3: amazing how good you can you can feel things. And

612
00:31:49,680 --> 00:31:52,280
Speaker 3: the best golf I ever played in my career was

613
00:31:52,400 --> 00:31:55,320
Speaker 3: the two thousand and one Sony Open at Wili, and

614
00:31:55,560 --> 00:31:59,000
Speaker 3: I shot twenty under par in the last hole I had.

615
00:31:59,320 --> 00:32:01,520
Speaker 3: You know, I played with L's and Layman, so I

616
00:32:01,560 --> 00:32:04,760
Speaker 3: was playing with top players the last couple of rounds

617
00:32:04,800 --> 00:32:06,560
Speaker 3: and it was just a flall ass around. I eagled.

618
00:32:07,720 --> 00:32:09,360
Speaker 3: There were two part fives. I made an eagle every

619
00:32:09,440 --> 00:32:11,480
Speaker 3: day and I finished it with an eagle on my

620
00:32:11,600 --> 00:32:14,360
Speaker 3: round three times. And the eighteenth hold, the seventy second hole,

621
00:32:15,680 --> 00:32:18,320
Speaker 3: I hit a five or two about eight to ten

622
00:32:18,320 --> 00:32:20,200
Speaker 3: feet under the hole with a left to right break,

623
00:32:20,680 --> 00:32:22,520
Speaker 3: a good amount, you know, a cup's worth of break,

624
00:32:23,160 --> 00:32:28,280
Speaker 3: and another putt that I had no concern about whether

625
00:32:28,360 --> 00:32:30,160
Speaker 3: I made this put or not. You know, all I

626
00:32:30,280 --> 00:32:34,640
Speaker 3: saw was a perfect line. And I remember the feeling

627
00:32:34,680 --> 00:32:36,520
Speaker 3: and all of us have felt it when you hit

628
00:32:36,560 --> 00:32:38,600
Speaker 3: a pot in the exact middle of the sweet spot

629
00:32:38,720 --> 00:32:42,200
Speaker 3: and it leaves, it melts onto the face of the

630
00:32:42,240 --> 00:32:44,719
Speaker 3: putter and it goes off and you're like, oh my gosh,

631
00:32:44,760 --> 00:32:47,320
Speaker 3: that felt good. Everything was perfect and the ball rolled

632
00:32:47,360 --> 00:32:52,640
Speaker 3: in a perfect speed, perfect line. And I think you

633
00:32:52,680 --> 00:32:55,280
Speaker 3: can I think you can teach people to feel that

634
00:32:55,960 --> 00:32:58,080
Speaker 3: in practice. You can tell them that they need to

635
00:32:58,080 --> 00:33:04,120
Speaker 3: get there in petition. But I think I've figured out

636
00:33:04,160 --> 00:33:06,440
Speaker 3: a few different ways where I can help people understand

637
00:33:06,480 --> 00:33:08,920
Speaker 3: those feels in their practice, where they can translate that

638
00:33:09,000 --> 00:33:11,800
Speaker 3: to the golf course. And that's I think that's what

639
00:33:11,840 --> 00:33:15,200
Speaker 3: the goal is of everybody is can you play, you know,

640
00:33:15,520 --> 00:33:18,640
Speaker 3: rounds of golf playing in that state of mind where

641
00:33:19,960 --> 00:33:23,520
Speaker 3: there's no concern for the result. I mean, I never

642
00:33:24,760 --> 00:33:26,680
Speaker 3: walk down the street thinking I'm the best putter in

643
00:33:26,680 --> 00:33:30,959
Speaker 3: the world. But I was a confident putter, and I

644
00:33:30,960 --> 00:33:33,880
Speaker 3: think for a long time I was able to put

645
00:33:34,240 --> 00:33:38,280
Speaker 3: most putts, taking away the importance down and play the

646
00:33:38,320 --> 00:33:42,360
Speaker 3: importance of the putt, the result, and just really falling

647
00:33:42,400 --> 00:33:43,760
Speaker 3: in love with hitting putts.

648
00:33:44,480 --> 00:33:47,400
Speaker 1: I think that's a lot of it.

649
00:33:45,680 --> 00:33:48,680
Speaker 2: I I've always.

650
00:33:48,360 --> 00:33:51,760
Speaker 1: Been like a player that struggled on the greens, but

651
00:33:51,800 --> 00:33:53,640
Speaker 1: in the last couple of years, I've learned to like

652
00:33:53,720 --> 00:33:54,400
Speaker 1: love putting.

653
00:33:55,000 --> 00:33:57,680
Speaker 2: And it's amazing how like it changed, like all of

654
00:33:57,680 --> 00:33:58,080
Speaker 2: a sudden.

655
00:33:58,120 --> 00:34:00,360
Speaker 1: People are like, ah, you're a really great potter, and

656
00:34:00,400 --> 00:34:02,880
Speaker 1: it's just like it was like a mindset switch and

657
00:34:02,920 --> 00:34:03,920
Speaker 1: now I can't hit the ball.

658
00:34:04,000 --> 00:34:04,760
Speaker 2: But that's golf.

659
00:34:04,920 --> 00:34:09,520
Speaker 3: Yeah, And people say that all the time. You know,

660
00:34:09,520 --> 00:34:11,759
Speaker 3: when they're when they're hitting it well, they tend to

661
00:34:11,760 --> 00:34:14,080
Speaker 3: not put as well. When they're putting well, they're not

662
00:34:14,160 --> 00:34:18,080
Speaker 3: hitting it as well. And sometimes it's desperation you make

663
00:34:18,120 --> 00:34:21,840
Speaker 3: these putts. And it's interesting to see, like statistics on

664
00:34:21,880 --> 00:34:25,720
Speaker 3: the tour from five eight ten feet, how tour players

665
00:34:25,760 --> 00:34:28,160
Speaker 3: make more of those for par than they do for birdie.

666
00:34:28,239 --> 00:34:30,239
Speaker 3: I mean, so is that technical?

667
00:34:30,560 --> 00:34:32,320
Speaker 2: No, it's a loss of version.

668
00:34:33,160 --> 00:34:36,480
Speaker 1: It's what I did a podcast with an economist.

669
00:34:36,560 --> 00:34:37,640
Speaker 2: It's a loss of version.

670
00:34:38,000 --> 00:34:39,320
Speaker 3: So tell me what loss of version?

671
00:34:39,520 --> 00:34:43,359
Speaker 1: So people people remember their losses. They did a whole

672
00:34:43,400 --> 00:34:47,080
Speaker 1: study on this. They remember their losses more than they

673
00:34:47,360 --> 00:34:51,680
Speaker 1: remember They fear losing a shot more than they they

674
00:34:51,800 --> 00:34:55,920
Speaker 1: want to gain a shot loss of birdie. Okay, So

675
00:34:56,160 --> 00:35:00,720
Speaker 1: they did a study at Oakmont and Pebble with the

676
00:35:00,840 --> 00:35:03,200
Speaker 1: ninth hole at Oakmont, in the second hole at Pebble,

677
00:35:03,200 --> 00:35:06,480
Speaker 1: when they switched it from a five to four. Oh so,

678
00:35:06,880 --> 00:35:11,320
Speaker 1: by simply switching the par to par four, players scored

679
00:35:11,480 --> 00:35:15,880
Speaker 1: point two shots better on the hole, same.

680
00:35:15,640 --> 00:35:18,840
Speaker 3: Hole, but par four, same distance.

681
00:35:18,680 --> 00:35:21,800
Speaker 1: Same distance, And I mean they did the whole control,

682
00:35:21,880 --> 00:35:24,120
Speaker 1: like they looked at it all over the years, historically

683
00:35:24,200 --> 00:35:26,960
Speaker 1: pretty much the same scoring average. When it switched to

684
00:35:27,080 --> 00:35:31,200
Speaker 1: par four, the scoring average went down point two. They said,

685
00:35:31,440 --> 00:35:34,040
Speaker 1: if you switched par five, every par five on tour,

686
00:35:34,200 --> 00:35:37,359
Speaker 1: I say, par fives don't exist, because you know, when

687
00:35:37,360 --> 00:35:40,400
Speaker 1: you think about par five, is expert player reaches it

688
00:35:40,400 --> 00:35:43,480
Speaker 1: in three shots? Those outside of maybe fourteen of Pebble,

689
00:35:44,040 --> 00:35:46,480
Speaker 1: you know, and a few other handful examples, they're all

690
00:35:46,520 --> 00:35:49,239
Speaker 1: part four. So if a player could convince themselves that

691
00:35:49,360 --> 00:35:50,640
Speaker 1: it's a par sixty eight.

692
00:35:51,200 --> 00:35:55,239
Speaker 3: Whoever this was that you talk to, would if he

693
00:35:55,320 --> 00:35:56,840
Speaker 3: told every player you got to play it as a

694
00:35:56,880 --> 00:35:58,440
Speaker 3: par sixty eight, you're going to shoot a lower score.

695
00:35:58,880 --> 00:36:03,400
Speaker 1: He said, they shoot one shot lower per round point point.

696
00:36:04,280 --> 00:36:06,760
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, that's since she so another row tell his story.

697
00:36:07,320 --> 00:36:10,759
Speaker 3: He was at Jack Nicholas was speaking to a group

698
00:36:10,760 --> 00:36:15,879
Speaker 3: of people, and Jack Nicholas was finishing the conversation, the talk,

699
00:36:16,400 --> 00:36:18,560
Speaker 3: and he said, I never three putted the last hole

700
00:36:18,560 --> 00:36:21,759
Speaker 3: of any tournament I ever played in. Never, he said. So.

701
00:36:22,800 --> 00:36:26,440
Speaker 3: There was some questions afterwards, and then Jack and Rotella

702
00:36:26,480 --> 00:36:30,560
Speaker 3: were together and this player came up and said to Jack, Jack,

703
00:36:30,640 --> 00:36:34,120
Speaker 3: I remember the eighteenth hole on Sunday at SO and

704
00:36:34,200 --> 00:36:37,279
Speaker 3: so tournament in Ohio. You definitely three putted the last hole,

705
00:36:37,280 --> 00:36:40,799
Speaker 3: and Jackson, no, I never three putted the last hole.

706
00:36:41,200 --> 00:36:43,560
Speaker 3: And and this conversation went back and forth, and this

707
00:36:43,600 --> 00:36:45,759
Speaker 3: guy got very angry and wrote, I said, let me

708
00:36:45,760 --> 00:36:49,560
Speaker 3: ask you something. Let's call him Bob. Bob, what's your handicap?

709
00:36:49,600 --> 00:36:52,080
Speaker 3: Because I'm sixteen? He goes, do you remember three putting

710
00:36:52,120 --> 00:36:55,239
Speaker 3: year holes? Last holes a lot? He goes, oh, yeah,

711
00:36:55,280 --> 00:36:57,640
Speaker 3: I remember it all the time. He goes, okay, so

712
00:36:58,080 --> 00:37:01,200
Speaker 3: you're sixteen handicap and remember all those and Jack Nicholas

713
00:37:01,200 --> 00:37:02,640
Speaker 3: is the best player that ever lived and he doesn't

714
00:37:02,640 --> 00:37:05,799
Speaker 3: remember that. Which way of thinking is correct? The guy

715
00:37:05,880 --> 00:37:09,680
Speaker 3: walked away angry, So you know, create your own reality.

716
00:37:09,719 --> 00:37:11,759
Speaker 3: You have to do that to be great at this game.

717
00:37:12,200 --> 00:37:12,439
Speaker 2: Yeah.

718
00:37:12,880 --> 00:37:15,680
Speaker 3: I love that story, and I love when people walk

719
00:37:15,680 --> 00:37:18,560
Speaker 3: away all angry. That's something that makes so much sense.

720
00:37:18,840 --> 00:37:24,080
Speaker 1: You know, last last I I asked about you know,

721
00:37:24,200 --> 00:37:27,520
Speaker 1: playing an environment of like an urban environment, if it

722
00:37:27,560 --> 00:37:30,960
Speaker 1: was different then But in your response was you know,

723
00:37:31,000 --> 00:37:32,879
Speaker 1: I didn't really care as long as it was a.

724
00:37:32,800 --> 00:37:37,560
Speaker 2: Great golf course. To you what is what is the

725
00:37:37,600 --> 00:37:38,680
Speaker 2: golf experience?

726
00:37:38,880 --> 00:37:40,799
Speaker 1: You know at a great golf course, from like an

727
00:37:40,880 --> 00:37:46,320
Speaker 1: architectural standpoint, how does it enhance the professional golf product?

728
00:37:48,320 --> 00:37:52,000
Speaker 3: So, being a Rhode Islander native Rhode Islander, I was

729
00:37:53,080 --> 00:37:55,960
Speaker 3: around older golf courses compared to the rest of the

730
00:37:56,000 --> 00:38:00,319
Speaker 3: country is Let's say Donald Ross's home was it Rhode

731
00:38:00,320 --> 00:38:04,360
Speaker 3: Island in the summers, a little town called Little Compton,

732
00:38:04,400 --> 00:38:07,160
Speaker 3: and he built a cool little par sixty nine course

733
00:38:07,160 --> 00:38:09,719
Speaker 3: called Siconic country Club. The course where I grew up,

734
00:38:09,760 --> 00:38:12,360
Speaker 3: Rhode Island country Club, was Donald Ross. There's Wana Moist

735
00:38:12,400 --> 00:38:15,680
Speaker 3: probably the most well known course in the state, Newport

736
00:38:15,719 --> 00:38:19,840
Speaker 3: country Club that Char's US Senior Open host had Donald

737
00:38:19,880 --> 00:38:24,040
Speaker 3: Ross holes on it. So William Flynn was there, Tillinghasse

738
00:38:24,120 --> 00:38:27,480
Speaker 3: was there, Willie Park was in Rhode Island. Rayner was

739
00:38:27,480 --> 00:38:29,360
Speaker 3: there with Wana Moye Billy ANDREI grew up on a

740
00:38:29,400 --> 00:38:31,200
Speaker 3: Rainner of course, and didn't know who seth Rayner was

741
00:38:32,480 --> 00:38:35,480
Speaker 3: Lee Jansen finally told him that. So some of the

742
00:38:35,560 --> 00:38:38,160
Speaker 3: best architects in the world were in Rhode Island, so

743
00:38:38,200 --> 00:38:42,520
Speaker 3: I learned their names, read a lot about architecture. Then, obviously,

744
00:38:42,600 --> 00:38:47,120
Speaker 3: being near Massachusetts, played a lot of courses. The Country

745
00:38:47,120 --> 00:38:52,560
Speaker 3: Club was one of the original five courses. William Flynn,

746
00:38:53,280 --> 00:38:57,200
Speaker 3: who you know, did Shinnecock Hills as well. So I

747
00:38:57,239 --> 00:39:00,760
Speaker 3: started learning and tying all these things together and learning

748
00:39:00,760 --> 00:39:04,680
Speaker 3: what great architecture was by playing them, not by you know,

749
00:39:04,760 --> 00:39:08,239
Speaker 3: trying to become a landscape architect. You know, I just

750
00:39:08,360 --> 00:39:12,000
Speaker 3: saw great golf and how the best holes looked and

751
00:39:12,160 --> 00:39:14,560
Speaker 3: felt and courses were. And then when I got on

752
00:39:14,600 --> 00:39:19,919
Speaker 3: the PGA Tour, you know, having watched PGA Tour golf,

753
00:39:20,120 --> 00:39:24,280
Speaker 3: you always knew listen to players comments how I loved Riviera,

754
00:39:24,360 --> 00:39:28,600
Speaker 3: how I loved Harbortown, how I loved west Chester. And

755
00:39:28,640 --> 00:39:31,520
Speaker 3: they were always the older colonial, the older courses people

756
00:39:31,560 --> 00:39:34,800
Speaker 3: seemed to players seemed to like. And then as the

757
00:39:34,840 --> 00:39:37,600
Speaker 3: game started to grow in popularity and we had to

758
00:39:37,640 --> 00:39:40,399
Speaker 3: be concerned about where are we going to put spectators.

759
00:39:41,160 --> 00:39:46,359
Speaker 3: Let's create more drama. That's that's the balance. And I

760
00:39:46,440 --> 00:39:49,359
Speaker 3: was surprised at how few of the courses we played

761
00:39:49,400 --> 00:39:51,400
Speaker 3: on the PG Tour were great. You know, we didn't

762
00:39:51,400 --> 00:39:55,480
Speaker 3: play top ranked, top one hundred courses very often, so

763
00:39:55,760 --> 00:39:58,200
Speaker 3: that was always that made that made a difference, and

764
00:39:58,440 --> 00:40:02,239
Speaker 3: but it made less of a difference to players than

765
00:40:02,280 --> 00:40:05,239
Speaker 3: I thought, you know, then I thought it should have.

766
00:40:06,000 --> 00:40:06,640
Speaker 3: You do you.

767
00:40:06,560 --> 00:40:13,200
Speaker 1: Think that the great golf courses create a different leaderboard

768
00:40:13,320 --> 00:40:18,000
Speaker 1: than say, you're run of the mill built for PGA

769
00:40:18,080 --> 00:40:22,000
Speaker 1: to our golf say it, We'll just say like TPC

770
00:40:22,120 --> 00:40:25,640
Speaker 1: New Orleans, you know, Louisiana, but like not not I

771
00:40:25,680 --> 00:40:28,600
Speaker 1: don't want to. But do you feel like the Riviera

772
00:40:28,920 --> 00:40:36,360
Speaker 1: Riviera created a different, different type of success from the player,

773
00:40:36,480 --> 00:40:40,439
Speaker 1: like asked different questions than you know, that modern course

774
00:40:40,480 --> 00:40:42,440
Speaker 1: that you talked about that wasn't like you know.

775
00:40:43,000 --> 00:40:45,399
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's a good question. That there were so many

776
00:40:45,440 --> 00:40:48,040
Speaker 3: factors that would influence a field. A lot of it

777
00:40:48,080 --> 00:40:50,880
Speaker 3: was tradition, like Riviera had been there for one hundred years,

778
00:40:50,880 --> 00:40:57,520
Speaker 3: Hogan his history there, schedule, where it is the schedule,

779
00:40:57,800 --> 00:41:01,680
Speaker 3: is it a run up to something that was important?

780
00:41:01,719 --> 00:41:06,480
Speaker 3: Perse that was something title, sponsor, where you lived. All

781
00:41:06,520 --> 00:41:09,480
Speaker 3: those things were factors. If you think about the US Open,

782
00:41:09,520 --> 00:41:12,439
Speaker 3: the first one Fox did at Chambers Bay. Of course,

783
00:41:12,480 --> 00:41:14,720
Speaker 3: nobody really knew anything about they didn't have any history,

784
00:41:15,280 --> 00:41:18,200
Speaker 3: had a great leaderboard and a compelling finish, didn't it

785
00:41:18,320 --> 00:41:22,000
Speaker 3: ye to watch what happened? It was sensational. So will

786
00:41:22,120 --> 00:41:27,960
Speaker 3: Chambers Bay be another US Open course? Maybe? If the

787
00:41:28,040 --> 00:41:30,640
Speaker 3: US Open were held at TPC at Louisiana, like you said,

788
00:41:31,080 --> 00:41:32,960
Speaker 3: would the leaderboard be better than it is as a

789
00:41:32,960 --> 00:41:36,680
Speaker 3: regular tour of one hundred to get the top players there?

790
00:41:37,840 --> 00:41:42,239
Speaker 3: Would they have to change the the golf course with

791
00:41:42,760 --> 00:41:49,560
Speaker 3: firmer conditions and more rough. Absolutely, But you know, every course,

792
00:41:50,360 --> 00:41:53,520
Speaker 3: every tournament doesn't have to have a fantastic leaderboard to

793
00:41:53,560 --> 00:41:56,399
Speaker 3: still be a great tournament. As a matter of fact,

794
00:41:56,760 --> 00:42:01,200
Speaker 3: I think it's better that every tournament's not a nine

795
00:42:01,320 --> 00:42:02,360
Speaker 3: or ten on the scale.

796
00:42:02,920 --> 00:42:07,080
Speaker 2: It's interesting. So Riviera one of my favorite staffs.

797
00:42:07,239 --> 00:42:10,680
Speaker 1: I think the last player to win Riviera that was

798
00:42:10,800 --> 00:42:14,440
Speaker 1: under the age of twenty eight is Adam Scott. And like,

799
00:42:14,600 --> 00:42:18,000
Speaker 1: you know, it's like maybe thirteen or fourteen years ago now,

800
00:42:18,600 --> 00:42:22,440
Speaker 1: and it's like something about that place it favor, you know.

801
00:42:22,560 --> 00:42:25,200
Speaker 1: And I don't know if this is statistically just an anomaly,

802
00:42:25,280 --> 00:42:27,879
Speaker 1: but older players seem to thrive there. And I don't

803
00:42:27,880 --> 00:42:33,279
Speaker 1: know if it's something about the game at Riviera that

804
00:42:33,880 --> 00:42:36,239
Speaker 1: you know requires a little bit of thought.

805
00:42:36,280 --> 00:42:38,120
Speaker 2: The more times you go around it, you learn more

806
00:42:38,160 --> 00:42:38,480
Speaker 2: and more.

807
00:42:38,520 --> 00:42:40,480
Speaker 1: At great courses, that seems to be one of the

808
00:42:40,520 --> 00:42:43,920
Speaker 1: common threads is like every time you play you kind

809
00:42:43,960 --> 00:42:45,600
Speaker 1: of reveals itself a little bit more.

810
00:42:47,120 --> 00:42:49,880
Speaker 3: You know, I have a fun spark spot at Riviera.

811
00:42:50,120 --> 00:42:52,840
Speaker 3: My greatest round ever played was there in the PGA

812
00:42:52,880 --> 00:42:58,200
Speaker 3: in ninety five, and Bob Roteller wrote a story about

813
00:42:58,239 --> 00:42:59,520
Speaker 3: my round. I don't know if I ever saw it

814
00:42:59,520 --> 00:43:02,279
Speaker 3: in golf as game of confidence and I read it

815
00:43:03,360 --> 00:43:07,319
Speaker 3: or I show players that I've tough or talk to

816
00:43:08,440 --> 00:43:10,320
Speaker 3: I don't want to brag and say, hey, read this

817
00:43:10,360 --> 00:43:12,920
Speaker 3: because it's about me. But what goes through a player's

818
00:43:12,920 --> 00:43:16,319
Speaker 3: mind when they're playing great is not unique, you know.

819
00:43:16,360 --> 00:43:19,759
Speaker 3: It's you still get bad thoughts, you don't hit every

820
00:43:19,760 --> 00:43:24,200
Speaker 3: shot perfectly. You have to manage the emotions of playing

821
00:43:24,200 --> 00:43:26,279
Speaker 3: a great round of golf when you need to. But

822
00:43:26,520 --> 00:43:33,879
Speaker 3: Riviera there's subtleties to the course. And if one cour

823
00:43:34,080 --> 00:43:37,360
Speaker 3: one hole at Rivia plays easy, like number one, the

824
00:43:37,400 --> 00:43:41,359
Speaker 3: short par five down the hill, number two will play

825
00:43:41,400 --> 00:43:46,480
Speaker 3: more difficult, depending on the winds, time of day, temperature.

826
00:43:47,040 --> 00:43:49,080
Speaker 3: You know, you can play there sometimes when it's cold

827
00:43:49,080 --> 00:43:52,280
Speaker 3: and wet and the ball doesn't go anywhere. Uphill shots

828
00:43:52,680 --> 00:43:56,080
Speaker 3: play so long. No course makes you turn the ball

829
00:43:56,120 --> 00:44:00,399
Speaker 3: in both directions more than Riviera Rivia does. Those big

830
00:44:00,440 --> 00:44:05,160
Speaker 3: yucalyptus trees, the stadium, look of the eighteenth Toll, that's

831
00:44:05,200 --> 00:44:09,960
Speaker 3: just natural. It's hard. I've never met anybody that goes

832
00:44:09,960 --> 00:44:12,520
Speaker 3: from Riverer and goes this isn't one of the coolest

833
00:44:12,520 --> 00:44:14,960
Speaker 3: places I've ever played. That's the look of the bunkering,

834
00:44:16,280 --> 00:44:19,760
Speaker 3: the green complexes and George Thomas. I mean, what a combination.

835
00:44:20,360 --> 00:44:21,160
Speaker 2: I mean, that's the thing.

836
00:44:21,320 --> 00:44:24,440
Speaker 1: George Thomas's might be the most underrated architect.

837
00:44:24,480 --> 00:44:25,040
Speaker 2: You look at it.

838
00:44:25,080 --> 00:44:28,040
Speaker 1: Every single he didn't do that many projects, but every

839
00:44:28,080 --> 00:44:29,600
Speaker 1: single one home run.

840
00:44:30,080 --> 00:44:33,760
Speaker 3: So being a New England guy. There's a great course

841
00:44:35,040 --> 00:44:40,640
Speaker 3: in Massachusetts by the Cape called Katans and Katans It

842
00:44:40,800 --> 00:44:43,279
Speaker 3: is hard to get, too hard to find, and you

843
00:44:43,360 --> 00:44:45,520
Speaker 3: got to go through these windy little roads and as

844
00:44:45,520 --> 00:44:49,600
Speaker 3: you're driving out towards the peninsula where it is, you

845
00:44:49,680 --> 00:44:51,920
Speaker 3: pass this little course called Marion M A R I

846
00:44:51,960 --> 00:44:53,960
Speaker 3: O N. Have you been there? Oh?

847
00:44:54,040 --> 00:44:54,239
Speaker 2: Yeah?

848
00:44:54,280 --> 00:44:56,280
Speaker 3: And you know there's a little shack or shed whatever,

849
00:44:56,320 --> 00:44:59,280
Speaker 3: and you know, like a gravel pit sort of parking

850
00:44:59,320 --> 00:45:02,040
Speaker 3: lot and stone wall in front of a green and

851
00:45:02,680 --> 00:45:04,360
Speaker 3: you know, I just used to laugh at that. You know,

852
00:45:04,400 --> 00:45:07,200
Speaker 3: you saw pull carts out there so you could go

853
00:45:07,239 --> 00:45:10,440
Speaker 3: pay twelve bucks and pay play your eight or nine holes.

854
00:45:10,440 --> 00:45:14,560
Speaker 3: George Thomas's first course ever and incredible. Yeah, and it's

855
00:45:14,600 --> 00:45:16,200
Speaker 3: got great views when you go. Did you you so

856
00:45:16,320 --> 00:45:16,920
Speaker 3: you've been out there?

857
00:45:17,040 --> 00:45:17,560
Speaker 2: Yeah? I played.

858
00:45:17,560 --> 00:45:20,640
Speaker 1: I played it with a with another with a with

859
00:45:20,680 --> 00:45:23,040
Speaker 1: a architect, young architect.

860
00:45:23,200 --> 00:45:23,919
Speaker 2: It was so fun.

861
00:45:23,960 --> 00:45:26,359
Speaker 1: We went out there on our box like if there's

862
00:45:26,360 --> 00:45:30,040
Speaker 1: nobody working there, you check your money in and you

863
00:45:30,080 --> 00:45:34,160
Speaker 1: know that was That's a really, I think an interesting

864
00:45:34,320 --> 00:45:36,800
Speaker 1: course for people to go see because it's like a

865
00:45:36,840 --> 00:45:40,640
Speaker 1: glimpse into the first iteration of golf architecture. Yes, because

866
00:45:40,640 --> 00:45:43,640
Speaker 1: that was in the rock walls were the hazards, because

867
00:45:43,680 --> 00:45:45,719
Speaker 1: it was it was easier to build a rock wall

868
00:45:45,760 --> 00:45:47,000
Speaker 1: than dig a bunker.

869
00:45:47,280 --> 00:45:49,759
Speaker 3: Totally, and there were a lot of rocks around there.

870
00:45:50,960 --> 00:45:54,040
Speaker 3: The Philadelphia Quakers kind of that was a vacation spot

871
00:45:54,080 --> 00:45:56,520
Speaker 3: for them. They would come to Jamestown, Rhode Island, they

872
00:45:56,520 --> 00:45:59,440
Speaker 3: would come to Cape Cod Thomas never got paid a

873
00:45:59,440 --> 00:46:02,319
Speaker 3: feed to design a golf course. It's fabulous a wealthy guy,

874
00:46:03,480 --> 00:46:07,520
Speaker 3: but that's where he learned his craft. And I don't

875
00:46:07,520 --> 00:46:09,600
Speaker 3: know if he took some of that schooling from maybe

876
00:46:09,640 --> 00:46:13,160
Speaker 3: North Barrack that had some rock walls around it. Uh

877
00:46:13,280 --> 00:46:16,840
Speaker 3: and and those walls, you know, part of what farmers

878
00:46:17,080 --> 00:46:20,120
Speaker 3: laid down to divide properties. And then you just put

879
00:46:20,160 --> 00:46:23,640
Speaker 3: him up and make the guy hit it over the fantastic.

880
00:46:24,000 --> 00:46:26,239
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's it's a neat play. That's like one of

881
00:46:26,280 --> 00:46:29,040
Speaker 2: the hidden gems. It's in terms of.

882
00:46:28,960 --> 00:46:32,520
Speaker 1: An authentic, unique golf experience, there are a few that

883
00:46:33,040 --> 00:46:36,000
Speaker 1: have more kind of character. Like it's not going to

884
00:46:36,040 --> 00:46:39,320
Speaker 1: wow you with conditions, but just a neat little spot.

885
00:46:39,560 --> 00:46:41,200
Speaker 2: You shouldn't drive by it, you should stop.

886
00:46:41,280 --> 00:46:43,799
Speaker 3: And so if you were going there, you had to

887
00:46:43,840 --> 00:46:44,960
Speaker 3: have gone to Catansit.

888
00:46:45,080 --> 00:46:48,319
Speaker 2: I didn't go. Oh, I just went to Marian You did.

889
00:46:48,480 --> 00:46:49,120
Speaker 3: That's amazing.

890
00:46:49,640 --> 00:46:55,000
Speaker 1: Well, I was flying into Boston to get to Yale

891
00:46:55,280 --> 00:46:58,680
Speaker 1: and I had time for one stop, so I stopped.

892
00:46:58,719 --> 00:47:02,000
Speaker 3: That was your one stop. Now, that's great story. Marion

893
00:47:02,040 --> 00:47:02,560
Speaker 3: Golf Club.

894
00:47:04,040 --> 00:47:05,319
Speaker 2: I have a thing for you know.

895
00:47:05,600 --> 00:47:08,600
Speaker 3: Well, if you're making me jealous, because I want to

896
00:47:08,600 --> 00:47:12,120
Speaker 3: go back there. My dad was a good player, and

897
00:47:12,160 --> 00:47:13,799
Speaker 3: he was a member when I was a little kid

898
00:47:13,800 --> 00:47:15,680
Speaker 3: at Rhode Island Country Club, where I learned to caddy

899
00:47:15,680 --> 00:47:17,160
Speaker 3: and learned the game. But he also was a member

900
00:47:17,160 --> 00:47:19,799
Speaker 3: of a place in the Cape called Eastward ho which

901
00:47:20,120 --> 00:47:22,200
Speaker 3: has now moved way up in the rankings. Keith Foster

902
00:47:22,280 --> 00:47:25,800
Speaker 3: did a renovation there, cleared thousands and thousands of trees.

903
00:47:27,320 --> 00:47:30,200
Speaker 3: So that is one of the great places in America

904
00:47:30,239 --> 00:47:33,200
Speaker 3: that many people don't know about. But there's a town

905
00:47:33,239 --> 00:47:36,600
Speaker 3: called Fall River, Massachusetts. Fall River was a mill town.

906
00:47:36,680 --> 00:47:39,720
Speaker 3: My father was worked at the Far River Gas Company.

907
00:47:40,120 --> 00:47:42,839
Speaker 3: And there's an eighteen hole course called Fall River Country Club.

908
00:47:42,880 --> 00:47:47,200
Speaker 3: But the original nine holes there is a sensational nine

909
00:47:47,239 --> 00:47:49,520
Speaker 3: holes of golf. I brought Gil Hans there. They had

910
00:47:49,560 --> 00:47:52,680
Speaker 3: punch bowl greens, they had dance style green. He goes,

911
00:47:52,719 --> 00:47:54,439
Speaker 3: this is one of the greatest places I've ever seen.

912
00:47:55,640 --> 00:47:59,640
Speaker 3: So those little nine hole tracks can be really, really fun.

913
00:48:00,480 --> 00:48:03,600
Speaker 1: I mean, we could talk I wanted to talk more

914
00:48:03,600 --> 00:48:05,799
Speaker 1: about golf course. We've bet we ended up on to

915
00:48:05,840 --> 00:48:08,759
Speaker 1: talk about you know, the mind and golf, and but

916
00:48:08,920 --> 00:48:10,880
Speaker 1: like I mean, that's I think one of the neatest

917
00:48:10,880 --> 00:48:13,560
Speaker 1: things about golf is just the exploration and and a

918
00:48:13,600 --> 00:48:16,200
Speaker 1: lot of times the golf courses that you've never heard of,

919
00:48:16,640 --> 00:48:20,040
Speaker 1: Like it's so worth just stopping and getting out of

920
00:48:20,040 --> 00:48:22,440
Speaker 1: your car and seeing, like what's going on here, because

921
00:48:22,480 --> 00:48:26,279
Speaker 1: like there are cool, little quirky nine hole courses all

922
00:48:26,320 --> 00:48:30,560
Speaker 1: over the place, especially in the northeast, you know. And

923
00:48:30,760 --> 00:48:34,200
Speaker 1: uh so it's it's been a pleasure of having you

924
00:48:34,280 --> 00:48:36,279
Speaker 1: on and we'll have to do it again. Maybe uh

925
00:48:36,480 --> 00:48:39,000
Speaker 1: if we get closer to uh, you know, may do

926
00:48:39,080 --> 00:48:40,560
Speaker 1: something about wing foot.

927
00:48:40,400 --> 00:48:43,640
Speaker 3: Or definitely, yeah, let's do something coming up there. Because

928
00:48:43,680 --> 00:48:47,760
Speaker 3: I my feeling on this US Open is the usj

929
00:48:47,840 --> 00:48:50,560
Speaker 3: would never admit this, but I think they want to

930
00:48:50,600 --> 00:48:54,160
Speaker 3: really make guys sweat. I think they want to see

931
00:48:54,160 --> 00:48:57,280
Speaker 3: some scores, some traditional US Open golf, I know Curtis

932
00:48:57,280 --> 00:48:59,440
Speaker 3: Strange and Paul As. I want to see guys bloody

933
00:48:59,480 --> 00:49:00,440
Speaker 3: when they finish around.

934
00:49:01,239 --> 00:49:03,160
Speaker 2: And those greens are.

935
00:49:05,280 --> 00:49:10,800
Speaker 1: Real quick talk about so you know, wing footscreens on

936
00:49:10,800 --> 00:49:13,920
Speaker 1: on a like they would fall if somebody built them today.

937
00:49:13,960 --> 00:49:16,920
Speaker 1: They'd be like these greens they're unfair, but like because

938
00:49:16,920 --> 00:49:20,319
Speaker 1: of the tradition, they you know, they are they are

939
00:49:20,640 --> 00:49:25,839
Speaker 1: intimidating as a great putter going to place with with

940
00:49:26,120 --> 00:49:28,880
Speaker 1: very undulating greens, do you feel just like when you

941
00:49:28,960 --> 00:49:31,440
Speaker 1: stepped on a course like that where you're at a

942
00:49:31,480 --> 00:49:33,320
Speaker 1: bigger advantage.

943
00:49:33,520 --> 00:49:37,720
Speaker 3: Definitely. And I think the best putters, the better putters

944
00:49:37,920 --> 00:49:42,680
Speaker 3: like that where it's difficult, challenging on every putt. I

945
00:49:43,400 --> 00:49:46,640
Speaker 3: always put in my best at a place like Augusta

946
00:49:47,360 --> 00:49:53,880
Speaker 3: because it made you be more creative. You know you

947
00:49:53,920 --> 00:49:57,000
Speaker 3: were you were nervous because putts were so fast. But

948
00:49:57,080 --> 00:50:00,719
Speaker 3: I think the the opposite is true too, Like at

949
00:50:00,960 --> 00:50:03,480
Speaker 3: death Page, everybody said he's the best conditioned. Greens are

950
00:50:03,520 --> 00:50:05,640
Speaker 3: all flat, you're gonna put great. I put it horribly there.

951
00:50:05,680 --> 00:50:06,680
Speaker 3: I couldn't see a picture.

952
00:50:07,160 --> 00:50:07,360
Speaker 2: You know.

953
00:50:07,520 --> 00:50:10,280
Speaker 3: Straighter putts are harder for me than breaking putts.

954
00:50:10,440 --> 00:50:13,479
Speaker 1: It's interesting because, like I think, one of the things

955
00:50:13,480 --> 00:50:16,840
Speaker 1: that's happened with this green speed's getting so highah is

956
00:50:16,880 --> 00:50:19,719
Speaker 1: that you know, tour doesn't like to put pins on

957
00:50:20,560 --> 00:50:22,920
Speaker 1: much slope because they never want the course to be

958
00:50:23,000 --> 00:50:26,319
Speaker 1: part of the conversation. Yes, And what's happened is like

959
00:50:26,440 --> 00:50:30,319
Speaker 1: I was watching even Kapalua down the stretch, I'm like, God,

960
00:50:30,560 --> 00:50:33,120
Speaker 1: I haven't seen a putt that anybody's played outside the

961
00:50:33,160 --> 00:50:36,000
Speaker 1: hole from inside seven feet.

962
00:50:35,480 --> 00:50:38,160
Speaker 2: And losing losing slope.

963
00:50:38,560 --> 00:50:41,720
Speaker 1: Slope is the best, you know, having a five footer

964
00:50:41,880 --> 00:50:44,319
Speaker 1: that you're looking at, it's like, well, I could play

965
00:50:44,320 --> 00:50:46,160
Speaker 1: it a ball out and put some paste on it,

966
00:50:46,280 --> 00:50:47,799
Speaker 1: or I could play it a cup out and die

967
00:50:47,960 --> 00:50:51,319
Speaker 1: in the top edge. Like that's where putting ads. There's

968
00:50:51,360 --> 00:50:52,759
Speaker 1: almost an added dimension to it.

969
00:50:52,920 --> 00:50:57,560
Speaker 3: So I learned that at a British Open, which traditionally

970
00:50:57,600 --> 00:51:01,640
Speaker 3: are flattered greens because of the wins out there when

971
00:51:02,880 --> 00:51:07,560
Speaker 3: the weekends came around the RNA who set up the

972
00:51:07,560 --> 00:51:11,360
Speaker 3: golf course where they were always able to find more slope.

973
00:51:11,400 --> 00:51:16,239
Speaker 3: So you can make the course play more difficult with

974
00:51:16,320 --> 00:51:19,480
Speaker 3: your whole locations. Obviously tucking them behind a bunker or

975
00:51:20,800 --> 00:51:23,719
Speaker 3: by the edges of the green, but put in them

976
00:51:23,719 --> 00:51:26,600
Speaker 3: where there's a lot of slope really is underrated and

977
00:51:26,880 --> 00:51:28,000
Speaker 3: make it much more difficult.

978
00:51:28,040 --> 00:51:31,280
Speaker 1: I agree, yeah, I mean, and it adds a dimension

979
00:51:31,320 --> 00:51:33,520
Speaker 1: to the pro shop when there's more slope because you

980
00:51:33,560 --> 00:51:35,600
Speaker 1: can't get above it all of a sudden, then your

981
00:51:35,760 --> 00:51:38,640
Speaker 1: target line is aiming right at it, and having five

982
00:51:38,680 --> 00:51:41,799
Speaker 1: feet all around it becomes oh, I got to stay

983
00:51:41,840 --> 00:51:44,839
Speaker 1: below it, and that bottom part of the circle is

984
00:51:44,880 --> 00:51:46,600
Speaker 1: going to be twenty five feet.

985
00:51:46,360 --> 00:51:48,480
Speaker 3: And that's where, of course, knowledge is really important, you know,

986
00:51:48,880 --> 00:51:50,400
Speaker 3: that's a big part of it. Well, thank you. I

987
00:51:50,600 --> 00:51:51,200
Speaker 3: really enjoyed.

988
00:51:51,360 --> 00:51:52,279
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's fun.

989
00:51:52,560 --> 00:51:57,000
Speaker 1: So we'll talk soon, and good luck talking to Scotti later.

990
00:51:57,040 --> 00:51:58,839
Speaker 3: I can't wait. I got to get a little bit

991
00:51:58,840 --> 00:52:00,920
Speaker 3: more organized. There's a lot of things you can An

992
00:52:00,960 --> 00:52:03,120
Speaker 3: hour is not long enough to talk to Scotti, Cameron, that's.

993
00:52:03,040 --> 00:52:18,759
Speaker 2: For sure, all right. Thanks Bratt, har Dannie. You've been

994
00:52:18,800 --> 00:52:22,040
Speaker 2: listening to the fried Egg podcast. We do the digging

995
00:52:22,480 --> 00:52:22,840
Speaker 2: for you.