1 00:00:15,356 --> 00:00:15,796 Speaker 1: Pushkin. 2 00:00:18,956 --> 00:00:23,036 Speaker 2: This episode contains material that may be upsetting to some listeners. 3 00:00:24,396 --> 00:00:28,756 Speaker 1: I finished law school on the first Friday in June 4 00:00:28,796 --> 00:00:34,996 Speaker 1: of nineteen sixty. On the following Monday, I went to 5 00:00:35,036 --> 00:00:39,236 Speaker 1: work for Donald L. Halliwell, who was the ultimate civil 6 00:00:39,316 --> 00:00:42,396 Speaker 1: rights lawyer in Atlanta, Georgia at the time. 7 00:00:43,436 --> 00:00:46,316 Speaker 2: Vernon Jordan, one of the great figures in the American 8 00:00:46,356 --> 00:00:49,236 Speaker 2: civil rights movement talking about his mentor. 9 00:00:49,436 --> 00:00:52,156 Speaker 1: And I went to work for him right out of 10 00:00:52,236 --> 00:00:56,436 Speaker 1: law school for thirty five dollars a week, and there 11 00:00:56,436 --> 00:01:03,356 Speaker 1: were no other jobs at the local government level, county, state, 12 00:01:03,636 --> 00:01:09,476 Speaker 1: or federal. We couldn't even take the bar review course 13 00:01:09,516 --> 00:01:14,156 Speaker 1: at John Marshall University because Georgia law quiet education be 14 00:01:14,756 --> 00:01:18,476 Speaker 1: separate and segregated. So I went to work for Don Hollowe. 15 00:01:18,596 --> 00:01:21,356 Speaker 1: My first day at work, I was in the Atlanta 16 00:01:21,476 --> 00:01:27,116 Speaker 1: Municipal Court helping him get demonstrators from the Atlanta University's 17 00:01:27,156 --> 00:01:28,916 Speaker 1: system out of jail. 18 00:01:32,316 --> 00:01:36,236 Speaker 2: My name is Malcolm Gladwell. You're listening to Revisionist History, 19 00:01:36,476 --> 00:01:43,676 Speaker 2: my podcast about things overlooked and misunderstood. This episode picks 20 00:01:43,756 --> 00:01:46,316 Speaker 2: up with a previous one left off with the story 21 00:01:46,316 --> 00:01:54,916 Speaker 2: of an extraordinary man named Donald L. Hallowell. Hallowell died 22 00:01:54,956 --> 00:01:57,636 Speaker 2: in two thousand and four, but I wish he were 23 00:01:57,676 --> 00:02:00,916 Speaker 2: still alive, because he has so much to teach us, 24 00:02:01,356 --> 00:02:04,196 Speaker 2: like how do you keep going when all seems lost? 25 00:02:04,676 --> 00:02:07,916 Speaker 2: How do you behave how do you conduct yourself if 26 00:02:07,956 --> 00:02:10,116 Speaker 2: you're one of the leaders of a lose cause? And 27 00:02:10,196 --> 00:02:13,036 Speaker 2: for most of his life Hollowell fought uphill. How do 28 00:02:13,076 --> 00:02:15,516 Speaker 2: you prepare those behind you for the day when you 29 00:02:15,636 --> 00:02:16,316 Speaker 2: might succeed? 30 00:02:20,636 --> 00:02:21,436 Speaker 3: What did he look like? 31 00:02:21,876 --> 00:02:26,436 Speaker 1: Hallowell big heavy guy, played quarterback at Lane College. 32 00:02:27,116 --> 00:02:31,796 Speaker 2: Vernon Jordan is a big guy as well, imposing charismatic. 33 00:02:32,476 --> 00:02:35,756 Speaker 2: I mention not only because it's not a trivial fact. 34 00:02:36,196 --> 00:02:39,436 Speaker 2: The two of them, Jordan and Hallowell, would drive around 35 00:02:39,516 --> 00:02:41,596 Speaker 2: Georgia from one end of the state to the next, 36 00:02:42,116 --> 00:02:45,156 Speaker 2: to towns and courtrooms where a black lawyer was not 37 00:02:45,276 --> 00:02:50,156 Speaker 2: just an anomaly but a provocation. If you were five 38 00:02:50,196 --> 00:02:53,156 Speaker 2: foot two with a little squeaky voice, it didn't work. 39 00:02:54,036 --> 00:02:56,636 Speaker 4: I would just like to think that the people at 40 00:02:56,676 --> 00:03:01,876 Speaker 4: the university and around the university are sufficiently fair minded 41 00:03:02,556 --> 00:03:03,556 Speaker 4: that you want to see. 42 00:03:03,836 --> 00:03:07,436 Speaker 2: I watched all these old, grainy videotapes of Hallowell in 43 00:03:07,476 --> 00:03:11,116 Speaker 2: the Auburn Avenue Library in Atlanta, and I became fixated 44 00:03:11,156 --> 00:03:14,836 Speaker 2: on his hands, which would rise and fall as he talked. 45 00:03:15,636 --> 00:03:20,676 Speaker 2: They were enormous. In Atlanta's segregated buses, there'd be a 46 00:03:20,676 --> 00:03:22,676 Speaker 2: little sign on the back of the seat where the 47 00:03:22,716 --> 00:03:26,996 Speaker 2: white section ended. It would say colored, directing black people 48 00:03:27,036 --> 00:03:31,116 Speaker 2: to their place. Sometimes, when no one was looking, Hollowell 49 00:03:31,156 --> 00:03:33,676 Speaker 2: would unclip it and stick it in his coat pocket, 50 00:03:34,516 --> 00:03:37,036 Speaker 2: mess things up a bit until the bus driver noticed, 51 00:03:37,556 --> 00:03:40,956 Speaker 2: or some white lady got hysterical because she inadvertently sat 52 00:03:40,996 --> 00:03:42,996 Speaker 2: in a seat still warm from the presence of a 53 00:03:43,036 --> 00:03:48,436 Speaker 2: black person. Hallowell was subversive in his own way, but 54 00:03:48,556 --> 00:03:52,396 Speaker 2: also formal proper. They used to say, he talked like 55 00:03:52,436 --> 00:03:56,236 Speaker 2: the Black Shakespeare. Hallowell once paused in the middle of 56 00:03:56,276 --> 00:03:59,716 Speaker 2: a trial to instruct the court on the correct pronunciation 57 00:04:00,036 --> 00:04:06,116 Speaker 2: of negro, not nigra, your honor negro. Another time, he 58 00:04:06,196 --> 00:04:08,996 Speaker 2: was up against two district attorneys in court, and the 59 00:04:09,276 --> 00:04:12,156 Speaker 2: moment he got up to speak, the white judge swiveled 60 00:04:12,196 --> 00:04:15,076 Speaker 2: in his chair with his back to Hallowell so he 61 00:04:15,116 --> 00:04:18,036 Speaker 2: would not have to suffer the indignity of gazing upon 62 00:04:18,076 --> 00:04:23,116 Speaker 2: a black man. What did Hallowell do, just kept talking 63 00:04:23,316 --> 00:04:27,716 Speaker 2: and talking in those slow, formal tones until it was 64 00:04:27,756 --> 00:04:29,156 Speaker 2: a judge who looked like a fool. 65 00:04:31,116 --> 00:04:36,196 Speaker 1: I did all the driving, and we get to a 66 00:04:36,276 --> 00:04:42,756 Speaker 1: town and so a principal or school teacher or the 67 00:04:42,836 --> 00:04:49,156 Speaker 1: local doctor. Somebody's got some independence. That's where you spent 68 00:04:49,276 --> 00:04:53,636 Speaker 1: the night. I slept the many night with holloween. You 69 00:04:53,676 --> 00:04:56,316 Speaker 1: know we're piling the same bed. 70 00:04:57,876 --> 00:04:59,476 Speaker 2: It better be a big bed if the two of 71 00:04:59,476 --> 00:04:59,916 Speaker 2: you were. 72 00:05:01,196 --> 00:05:06,836 Speaker 1: Yeah, but there were no big beds in those there 73 00:05:06,836 --> 00:05:11,356 Speaker 1: were no kings eye bed. But no, No, it was 74 00:05:12,196 --> 00:05:14,756 Speaker 1: Holliwell was a real hero. 75 00:05:19,476 --> 00:05:23,036 Speaker 2: In the early morning of November fifth, nineteen fifty three, 76 00:05:23,076 --> 00:05:26,076 Speaker 2: a woman named Betty Joe Bishop calls the Atlanta Police 77 00:05:26,076 --> 00:05:30,596 Speaker 2: Department in hysterics. In her car is the badly beaten 78 00:05:30,676 --> 00:05:34,516 Speaker 2: corpse of her boyfriend, Marvin Lindsay. She tells the police 79 00:05:34,836 --> 00:05:36,836 Speaker 2: that two of them had been attacked when they were 80 00:05:36,876 --> 00:05:40,676 Speaker 2: parked on a secluded road on Atlanta's South Side. It's 81 00:05:40,716 --> 00:05:43,956 Speaker 2: a sensational case. In fact, it was written up in 82 00:05:43,956 --> 00:05:46,396 Speaker 2: one of those pulp crime magazines that were so popular 83 00:05:46,436 --> 00:05:50,836 Speaker 2: back then, Official Detective Stories, March nineteen fifty four issue 84 00:05:51,156 --> 00:05:57,356 Speaker 2: Wanted the Man in the Pyramid Hat I can't do 85 00:05:57,556 --> 00:06:00,076 Speaker 2: justice to the spirit of pulp journalism. So we're going 86 00:06:00,116 --> 00:06:03,276 Speaker 2: to reenact some scenes from the article, starting with this 87 00:06:03,436 --> 00:06:06,836 Speaker 2: description of the moment. Betty Joe Bishop meets Atlanta's Chief 88 00:06:06,836 --> 00:06:11,036 Speaker 2: of Detectives, Glynn Cowan, on in November morning. 89 00:06:12,156 --> 00:06:14,316 Speaker 1: Suppose that you begin by telling. 90 00:06:14,116 --> 00:06:19,476 Speaker 5: Us your name, Bishop, missus, Betty Joe Bishop, I'm a widow. 91 00:06:20,036 --> 00:06:24,756 Speaker 1: You were with Marvin Lindsey tonight. Yes, tell me what happened? 92 00:06:26,236 --> 00:06:29,796 Speaker 2: Bishop tells the detective about driving to Jonesboro Road. 93 00:06:31,636 --> 00:06:34,556 Speaker 5: We were only there a few minutes when this man 94 00:06:34,756 --> 00:06:39,476 Speaker 5: came out of the woods. It was terrible. He struck 95 00:06:39,556 --> 00:06:43,196 Speaker 5: me with his fist and Marvin had to fight him off. 96 00:06:44,156 --> 00:06:46,556 Speaker 5: Then he walked around the car and hit Marvin with 97 00:06:46,676 --> 00:06:52,236 Speaker 5: something heavy. Marvin pleaded for him to stop, but he wouldn't. 98 00:06:54,316 --> 00:06:57,476 Speaker 2: She covered her face with her hands and broke into long, 99 00:06:57,716 --> 00:07:03,116 Speaker 2: racking sobs. Cowen waited patiently until she recovered her composure. 100 00:07:03,676 --> 00:07:04,236 Speaker 2: What happened? 101 00:07:04,236 --> 00:07:05,796 Speaker 1: Then he asked what happened? 102 00:07:05,836 --> 00:07:12,236 Speaker 5: Then? Well, after he got tired of hitting Marvin, he 103 00:07:12,356 --> 00:07:16,076 Speaker 5: ran into the woods. Marvin was lying half in and 104 00:07:16,116 --> 00:07:18,196 Speaker 5: half out of the car, so I walked around at 105 00:07:18,236 --> 00:07:21,436 Speaker 5: the driver's side and made him lie across the seat. 106 00:07:21,756 --> 00:07:25,436 Speaker 5: He was bleeding something awful, so I knew he was 107 00:07:25,516 --> 00:07:28,836 Speaker 5: hurt bad. I drove to his home in Blair Village 108 00:07:29,036 --> 00:07:31,196 Speaker 5: and told his brother John what had happened, and John 109 00:07:31,236 --> 00:07:33,236 Speaker 5: got in the car. We drove to Grady Hospital, but 110 00:07:33,316 --> 00:07:37,036 Speaker 5: it was too late. Marvin was already dead. 111 00:07:40,436 --> 00:07:43,996 Speaker 2: They're in the police station. She can barely hold it together. 112 00:07:44,596 --> 00:07:48,076 Speaker 2: She's all beaten up. Her lover is dead. She tells 113 00:07:48,116 --> 00:07:51,356 Speaker 2: the officer that the assailant had come back after killing 114 00:07:51,396 --> 00:07:55,636 Speaker 2: Marvin and raped her. Maybe Detective Cowan takes her hand 115 00:07:55,676 --> 00:07:58,796 Speaker 2: in sympathy. Maybe He waits a few moments to let 116 00:07:58,836 --> 00:08:05,036 Speaker 2: her collect her thoughts. Then, as the article describes it, 117 00:08:05,716 --> 00:08:07,836 Speaker 2: he asks her to describe the assailant. 118 00:08:08,636 --> 00:08:11,356 Speaker 5: I'm not sure sure. It was very dark, and I 119 00:08:11,436 --> 00:08:16,556 Speaker 5: was scared. He was tall, and then I remember that much. Also, 120 00:08:16,636 --> 00:08:19,196 Speaker 5: when I grabbed one of his hands, I'll remember it 121 00:08:19,196 --> 00:08:20,196 Speaker 5: felt kind of bony. 122 00:08:21,436 --> 00:08:26,356 Speaker 2: Slowly, gently Cowan draws a description out of her. The 123 00:08:26,356 --> 00:08:29,596 Speaker 2: man was in his late thirties or early forties, about 124 00:08:29,636 --> 00:08:35,356 Speaker 2: five foot eleven then, wearing a leather jacket, dungarees, a 125 00:08:35,396 --> 00:08:38,476 Speaker 2: funny cuint of hat, pyramid shaped. 126 00:08:38,876 --> 00:08:42,756 Speaker 5: And he was swarthy and had dark, oily hair. 127 00:08:44,636 --> 00:08:48,036 Speaker 2: The article never comes out and says so explicitly, But 128 00:08:48,116 --> 00:08:50,796 Speaker 2: if you're a reader of the pulp magazine Official Detective 129 00:08:50,836 --> 00:08:55,236 Speaker 2: Stories in March nineteen fifty four, you know what swarthy means. 130 00:08:55,996 --> 00:08:59,716 Speaker 2: The killer's black. That's why this is such a sensational case. 131 00:09:00,516 --> 00:09:04,156 Speaker 2: Betty Joe Bishop is an innocent white widow and she 132 00:09:04,436 --> 00:09:07,716 Speaker 2: and her boyfriend have been attacked by a mysterious black man. 133 00:09:09,116 --> 00:09:17,796 Speaker 2: Atlanta's finest immediately got to work. They scour the crime scene. 134 00:09:18,356 --> 00:09:21,276 Speaker 2: The killer had a rolled up newspaper which he'd apparently 135 00:09:21,356 --> 00:09:24,556 Speaker 2: left at the scene, and he'd circled two wantads, one 136 00:09:24,676 --> 00:09:27,996 Speaker 2: for a dishwasher at a local restaurant. The police go 137 00:09:28,076 --> 00:09:31,956 Speaker 2: to the restaurant. Did a thin, swarthy man with oily 138 00:09:32,036 --> 00:09:36,076 Speaker 2: hair answer and ad yesterday for a dishwasher? The only 139 00:09:36,156 --> 00:09:40,516 Speaker 2: the restaurant says yes, doesn't remember his name, but remembers 140 00:09:40,516 --> 00:09:42,516 Speaker 2: the man said he used to work at Elite Bowling 141 00:09:42,556 --> 00:09:46,316 Speaker 2: Alleys on Hunter Street. The coat check girl at Elite 142 00:09:46,396 --> 00:09:51,356 Speaker 2: Bowling Alley says, oh, that's Willie. An eyewitness comes forward 143 00:09:51,516 --> 00:09:54,756 Speaker 2: says he saw a man near the crime scene, swarthy 144 00:09:55,276 --> 00:09:59,436 Speaker 2: wearing a pyramid shaped hat. They scour the area around 145 00:09:59,436 --> 00:10:03,796 Speaker 2: the crime scene, stumble on a little cottage inside his 146 00:10:03,836 --> 00:10:09,756 Speaker 2: thirty nine year old Willie Nash, unemployed handyman, swarthy, dark hair. 147 00:10:10,396 --> 00:10:15,636 Speaker 2: They arrest him. He confesses, So who do you call? 148 00:10:15,676 --> 00:10:19,476 Speaker 2: If you're Willie Nash, things are pretty bleak. What you 149 00:10:19,556 --> 00:10:23,356 Speaker 2: really want is a white lawyer. Because it's nineteen fifty four. 150 00:10:24,036 --> 00:10:26,716 Speaker 2: The jury's going to be all white, the police department 151 00:10:26,756 --> 00:10:29,036 Speaker 2: is all white, the judge is going to be white. 152 00:10:29,596 --> 00:10:32,476 Speaker 2: Willie Nash knows where the power lives in Atlanta, Georgia. 153 00:10:32,996 --> 00:10:35,996 Speaker 2: But Willia Nash is poor, so he's forced to settle 154 00:10:36,156 --> 00:10:38,356 Speaker 2: for one of the very few black lawyers in town, 155 00:10:38,836 --> 00:10:41,876 Speaker 2: a man two years out of law school, still wet 156 00:10:41,916 --> 00:10:47,276 Speaker 2: behind the ears, Donald L. Hollowell. When Nash realizes he 157 00:10:47,316 --> 00:10:51,556 Speaker 2: has no other choice, he breaks down into tears. I'd 158 00:10:51,596 --> 00:10:54,636 Speaker 2: have cried too, Hollowell says years later, if I'd have 159 00:10:54,636 --> 00:10:58,836 Speaker 2: been Willy Nash under those circumstances. This was years before 160 00:10:58,956 --> 00:11:02,236 Speaker 2: Vernon Jordan joined Hollowell's firm, but he knew all about 161 00:11:02,276 --> 00:11:05,756 Speaker 2: the Willy Nash case. Everybody in black Atlanta did. 162 00:11:06,076 --> 00:11:09,876 Speaker 1: That's the case where he held up. The latest pan 163 00:11:10,076 --> 00:11:13,916 Speaker 1: is before the jury and that was the case set 164 00:11:15,636 --> 00:11:17,396 Speaker 1: set Hallowell up. 165 00:11:21,476 --> 00:11:24,476 Speaker 2: A few years ago, the Smithsonian interviewed a man named 166 00:11:24,556 --> 00:11:29,516 Speaker 2: Robert Carter, another legendary black attorney. Carter talks about trying 167 00:11:29,556 --> 00:11:32,396 Speaker 2: school segregation cases in the Deep South in the nineteen 168 00:11:32,436 --> 00:11:37,236 Speaker 2: fifties with Constance Baker Motley and Thurgood Marshall, two other 169 00:11:37,356 --> 00:11:40,676 Speaker 2: pioneering black lawyers of that era. They would be in 170 00:11:40,756 --> 00:11:44,916 Speaker 2: court up against the local white schools superintendent, and black 171 00:11:44,956 --> 00:11:48,796 Speaker 2: people from the community would show up, cram into the balcony, 172 00:11:49,316 --> 00:11:53,276 Speaker 2: hang on every word. It wasn't that they expected to win, 173 00:11:53,356 --> 00:11:55,836 Speaker 2: because they often didn't. They just wanted to see a 174 00:11:55,876 --> 00:11:59,076 Speaker 2: black person in a position of formal authority over a 175 00:11:59,116 --> 00:12:02,996 Speaker 2: white person in Mississippi or Georgia or Alabama. At the 176 00:12:03,036 --> 00:12:07,116 Speaker 2: height of Jim Crow, that was history being made. Every hearing, 177 00:12:07,236 --> 00:12:10,836 Speaker 2: every trial with a black lawyer was public theater. During 178 00:12:10,876 --> 00:12:14,196 Speaker 2: cross examination, a white witness might forget his role in 179 00:12:14,236 --> 00:12:18,236 Speaker 2: the trial and start asking questions of the attorney of Motley, say, 180 00:12:18,436 --> 00:12:22,956 Speaker 2: and Connie Motley, a black woman in nineteen fifty something, 181 00:12:23,356 --> 00:12:26,876 Speaker 2: would reprimand the white male witness say, my job is 182 00:12:26,916 --> 00:12:30,196 Speaker 2: to ask the question, Your job is to respond, And 183 00:12:30,276 --> 00:12:38,316 Speaker 2: everybody would gasp. In the evening. Carter says he would 184 00:12:38,356 --> 00:12:41,156 Speaker 2: walk through the black neighborhoods and hear people re enacting 185 00:12:41,196 --> 00:12:44,956 Speaker 2: the trial in barbershops and beauty parlors. In other words, 186 00:12:45,156 --> 00:12:48,316 Speaker 2: there were two conversations going on at any given time. 187 00:12:48,836 --> 00:12:53,916 Speaker 2: There was the legal conversation witness, judge, lawyers accused. If 188 00:12:53,956 --> 00:12:56,076 Speaker 2: you were a white lawyer dealing with the white world, 189 00:12:56,276 --> 00:12:59,316 Speaker 2: that was the conversation you worried about. But there was 190 00:12:59,396 --> 00:13:02,596 Speaker 2: a second conversation, which was between the black lawyers and 191 00:13:02,636 --> 00:13:04,956 Speaker 2: the people in the balcony. And if you were an 192 00:13:05,076 --> 00:13:08,436 Speaker 2: underdog with a limited chance to win at the first conversation, 193 00:13:08,836 --> 00:13:13,956 Speaker 2: then and that second conversation was really important. Donald Halliwell 194 00:13:14,556 --> 00:13:17,356 Speaker 2: was very good at the first conversation, the legal one. 195 00:13:17,716 --> 00:13:19,516 Speaker 2: He was a master of the second. 196 00:13:24,836 --> 00:13:29,036 Speaker 3: At home the defense of liberty and democracy for African Americans. 197 00:13:29,436 --> 00:13:32,156 Speaker 2: There's a great documentary about Hallowell made by the Georgia 198 00:13:32,236 --> 00:13:34,076 Speaker 2: civil rights scholar Maurice Daniels. 199 00:13:34,516 --> 00:13:39,076 Speaker 3: This fight will require foot soldiers for equal justice. 200 00:13:39,236 --> 00:13:42,756 Speaker 2: Daniels does a long interview with an attorney named Howard Moore, 201 00:13:43,116 --> 00:13:46,396 Speaker 2: who worked with Hallowell in the nineteen sixties, and Moore 202 00:13:46,436 --> 00:13:49,236 Speaker 2: talks about arriving early at ahering into the police shooting 203 00:13:49,236 --> 00:13:53,036 Speaker 2: of a black teenager to handle things before Hallowell got there. 204 00:13:53,436 --> 00:13:56,596 Speaker 6: When I got down to Bibb County and went to 205 00:13:56,636 --> 00:14:01,516 Speaker 6: the courthouse, that were about three thousand negroes on the steps. 206 00:14:02,916 --> 00:14:05,716 Speaker 6: And I went into the courthouse and there were about 207 00:14:05,756 --> 00:14:07,956 Speaker 6: three thousand or as many as they could get in 208 00:14:08,036 --> 00:14:11,596 Speaker 6: the balcony of staff. And when I walked in the courtroom, 209 00:14:11,636 --> 00:14:15,276 Speaker 6: the people upstairs, the black people, said that ain't Hollowell. 210 00:14:16,916 --> 00:14:17,796 Speaker 1: Where's Hollowell? 211 00:14:17,876 --> 00:14:21,716 Speaker 6: That ain't Hallowell. I don't know what to do. 212 00:14:21,956 --> 00:14:22,516 Speaker 1: I don't know. 213 00:14:22,876 --> 00:14:25,276 Speaker 6: I have no idea what I'm supposed to do, you know. 214 00:14:25,916 --> 00:14:28,316 Speaker 6: So I said, well, I act like Hallowell. I'll just 215 00:14:28,476 --> 00:14:31,956 Speaker 6: object in the loudest voice I can. And then people 216 00:14:32,076 --> 00:14:36,076 Speaker 6: upstairs in the in the balcony said, well, it ain't Hallowell, 217 00:14:36,196 --> 00:14:37,516 Speaker 6: but he sounded like Hallowell. 218 00:14:38,956 --> 00:14:41,556 Speaker 2: When Hallowell showed up at the court inquest, he put 219 00:14:41,596 --> 00:14:44,596 Speaker 2: the police officer on the stand he'd shot a seventeen 220 00:14:44,676 --> 00:14:47,796 Speaker 2: year old boy named A. C. Hall. Hallowell took the 221 00:14:47,836 --> 00:14:53,156 Speaker 2: officer through his testimony, bit by meticulous bit, slowly exposing 222 00:14:53,196 --> 00:14:56,916 Speaker 2: the officer's lies. The cop was in tears by the end. 223 00:14:57,676 --> 00:15:00,876 Speaker 6: I've never seen that before since, when a lawyer just 224 00:15:00,916 --> 00:15:04,476 Speaker 6: take completely control of a witness and buying that witness 225 00:15:04,516 --> 00:15:08,916 Speaker 6: to his will, not with shouting and screaming, but with systematic, 226 00:15:09,316 --> 00:15:12,396 Speaker 6: well structured, well placed questions. 227 00:15:12,796 --> 00:15:15,556 Speaker 2: Now, did Hallowell win a victory for the bereaved family 228 00:15:15,596 --> 00:15:19,196 Speaker 2: of ac Hall. Was the officer prosecuted, of course not. 229 00:15:19,996 --> 00:15:22,356 Speaker 2: It's hard enough to win a conviction against a white 230 00:15:22,356 --> 00:15:24,996 Speaker 2: cop who shoots a black kid today, let alone. In 231 00:15:25,076 --> 00:15:29,276 Speaker 2: nineteen sixty two in Bibb County, Georgia, this was about 232 00:15:29,356 --> 00:15:33,276 Speaker 2: the second conversation between Hallowell and the thousands of people 233 00:15:33,316 --> 00:15:37,596 Speaker 2: on the steps. We are not entirely powerless. I can 234 00:15:37,676 --> 00:15:45,596 Speaker 2: bind a witness to my will one more case, because 235 00:15:45,716 --> 00:15:48,796 Speaker 2: there are dozens of them. Hollowell never stopped moving in 236 00:15:48,836 --> 00:15:52,316 Speaker 2: those years. This one was in nineteen sixty one, and 237 00:15:52,356 --> 00:15:55,156 Speaker 2: this time Hallowell was with the young Vernon Jordan. 238 00:15:55,716 --> 00:16:00,876 Speaker 1: Our client, James Phayir, a black kid from New Jersey, 239 00:16:02,556 --> 00:16:10,036 Speaker 1: had been arrested, arraigned, indicted, tried, convicted, and sentenced to 240 00:16:10,156 --> 00:16:14,956 Speaker 1: die in the electric chair in twenty four hours. 241 00:16:15,716 --> 00:16:19,196 Speaker 2: Hallowell and his team go down to the town of Reedsville, Georgia, 242 00:16:19,316 --> 00:16:20,716 Speaker 2: to argue for a new trial. 243 00:16:21,476 --> 00:16:28,836 Speaker 1: The judge in the case was Judge WI don't want 244 00:16:28,836 --> 00:16:33,916 Speaker 1: any niggas in my court gear. He had that reputation. 245 00:16:36,476 --> 00:16:39,636 Speaker 1: On Monday, we went and we tried the case. 246 00:16:40,716 --> 00:16:43,476 Speaker 2: At lunchtime, the judge and the white lawyers and the 247 00:16:43,516 --> 00:16:46,676 Speaker 2: white court officials went across the town square to the 248 00:16:46,716 --> 00:16:49,076 Speaker 2: white only restaurant and had their lunch. 249 00:16:49,876 --> 00:16:53,756 Speaker 1: Hallowell, C. B. King and I went to the own 250 00:16:53,796 --> 00:16:59,996 Speaker 1: the grocery store on the courthouse square or the Pound 251 00:17:00,036 --> 00:17:05,876 Speaker 1: and bolognay loaf of bread, mustard, Coca cola and the 252 00:17:05,916 --> 00:17:11,116 Speaker 1: baby Ruth and sat in mister Hallowell's car in the 253 00:17:11,196 --> 00:17:14,876 Speaker 1: parking surrounding the courthouse and ate our lunch. We did 254 00:17:14,876 --> 00:17:22,036 Speaker 1: it on Monday. We did it on Tuesday Wednesday with 255 00:17:22,316 --> 00:17:26,156 Speaker 1: Ryan Mcase and a black lady who waved in me 256 00:17:28,796 --> 00:17:31,396 Speaker 1: and I met her in the vestibula at the courthouse. 257 00:17:32,556 --> 00:17:37,996 Speaker 1: Never forget it, and she said, Lawyer, we've been watching 258 00:17:38,076 --> 00:17:42,756 Speaker 1: y'all eat that bologna for two days now. She says, 259 00:17:43,756 --> 00:17:47,276 Speaker 1: just have a Coca cola and don't eat that bolloona 260 00:17:47,316 --> 00:17:51,076 Speaker 1: today and when the court ends, which is three thirty four, 261 00:17:52,156 --> 00:17:54,756 Speaker 1: you'll drive to my house for lunch. 262 00:17:56,356 --> 00:17:59,236 Speaker 2: So they go to her house. That's the moment Jordan 263 00:17:59,316 --> 00:18:03,356 Speaker 2: remembers fifty years later, that moment of grace and quiet 264 00:18:03,356 --> 00:18:05,356 Speaker 2: rebellion outside the courtroom. 265 00:18:06,076 --> 00:18:09,836 Speaker 1: And we walked in, and the table but was set 266 00:18:09,916 --> 00:18:14,916 Speaker 1: for royalty, her best linen, her best china, her best crystal. 267 00:18:16,876 --> 00:18:21,556 Speaker 1: The aroma of the southern food was almost crippling. It 268 00:18:21,636 --> 00:18:27,636 Speaker 1: was as it circled our noses. And her neighbors had 269 00:18:27,716 --> 00:18:31,236 Speaker 1: come and put on nice sundresses, and their husbands had 270 00:18:31,236 --> 00:18:35,996 Speaker 1: cleaned up, and they welcomed us. And then we joined hands, 271 00:18:36,116 --> 00:18:43,756 Speaker 1: and her husband gave the grace and he said this 272 00:18:44,116 --> 00:18:51,996 Speaker 1: unforgettable sentence, which was Lord way down here in Tattnall County. 273 00:18:52,396 --> 00:19:00,436 Speaker 1: We can't join the NAACP, but thanks to your bountiful blessings, 274 00:19:01,236 --> 00:19:05,236 Speaker 1: we can feed the NAACP lawyers. 275 00:19:09,516 --> 00:19:15,516 Speaker 2: So Willie Nash, Betty Joe Bishop's swoarthy assailant. The case 276 00:19:15,596 --> 00:19:20,356 Speaker 2: we began with Donald Hollowell's Trial by Fire. If you 277 00:19:20,396 --> 00:19:23,516 Speaker 2: look back on Hollowell's career, it's all there, every theme. 278 00:19:23,556 --> 00:19:26,876 Speaker 2: In that first case. Nash has been indicted for murder, 279 00:19:27,236 --> 00:19:31,276 Speaker 2: rape and robbery. The prosecutor has a murder weapon, a 280 00:19:31,276 --> 00:19:35,196 Speaker 2: bloody piece of pipe. He has Nash's confession, and he 281 00:19:35,236 --> 00:19:38,396 Speaker 2: has a witness, a black man named Julius Harris, who 282 00:19:38,476 --> 00:19:42,476 Speaker 2: places Nash at the murder scene. The moonlight was shining 283 00:19:42,556 --> 00:19:45,916 Speaker 2: directly on his face when I glimpsed him. Harris testifies 284 00:19:47,116 --> 00:19:50,596 Speaker 2: for Hollowell and Nash. It looks pretty bleak. But then 285 00:19:51,116 --> 00:19:53,956 Speaker 2: one of the prosecutors is trying to remember Julius Harris's 286 00:19:54,076 --> 00:19:57,116 Speaker 2: name and can't, and he says, in an open court room, 287 00:19:57,716 --> 00:20:02,036 Speaker 2: the eye witness, you know that fat nigger. Hollowell jumps 288 00:20:02,036 --> 00:20:04,556 Speaker 2: out of his seat and almost shouts a negro is 289 00:20:04,636 --> 00:20:08,996 Speaker 2: as entitled to respect as any other person. The judge agrees, 290 00:20:09,596 --> 00:20:16,036 Speaker 2: declares a mistrial. The second trial is two months later. 291 00:20:16,436 --> 00:20:19,396 Speaker 2: This time Hollowell has time to prepare. He puts the 292 00:20:19,436 --> 00:20:21,636 Speaker 2: head of the Georgia State Crime Lab on the stand 293 00:20:22,076 --> 00:20:24,996 Speaker 2: and asks, did you find any blood on the alleged 294 00:20:25,036 --> 00:20:29,876 Speaker 2: murder weapon. The man says, actually he didn't. Hallowell moves 295 00:20:29,876 --> 00:20:33,036 Speaker 2: on to the police. Turns out they have multiple conflicting 296 00:20:33,116 --> 00:20:37,276 Speaker 2: stories about what happened that night. Willie Nash testifies, says 297 00:20:37,316 --> 00:20:40,236 Speaker 2: his confession was beaten out of him. As for the 298 00:20:40,276 --> 00:20:42,476 Speaker 2: witness who said he saw Nash's face by the light 299 00:20:42,476 --> 00:20:45,596 Speaker 2: of the moon, Hallowell points out there was no moon 300 00:20:45,636 --> 00:20:50,276 Speaker 2: over Atlanta that night. Finally, Hollowell turns to the alleged victim, 301 00:20:50,596 --> 00:20:54,236 Speaker 2: Betty Joe Bishop. Turns out she had a second boyfriend 302 00:20:54,556 --> 00:20:57,516 Speaker 2: who left town right after the murder of her first boyfriend, 303 00:20:58,276 --> 00:21:00,716 Speaker 2: and when she pulled up to Marvin Lindsey's brother's house 304 00:21:01,076 --> 00:21:03,956 Speaker 2: with Marvin's dead body in her car, the first thing 305 00:21:03,996 --> 00:21:06,356 Speaker 2: out of her mouth was, I know you think I 306 00:21:06,396 --> 00:21:13,676 Speaker 2: did it, but a nigger did it. Finally, Hallowell calls 307 00:21:13,716 --> 00:21:16,836 Speaker 2: the doctor who examined Bishop right after the alleged rape occurred, 308 00:21:17,476 --> 00:21:20,276 Speaker 2: and the doctor concedes that he could find no evidence, 309 00:21:20,596 --> 00:21:24,516 Speaker 2: not bruises or sperm, to indicate that a rape actually occurred. 310 00:21:25,396 --> 00:21:28,516 Speaker 2: That's when Hollowell holds up an item from police evidence, 311 00:21:29,196 --> 00:21:33,876 Speaker 2: Betty Joe Bishop's underwear. Hallowell waves them in front of 312 00:21:33,916 --> 00:21:38,236 Speaker 2: the jury. Nineteen fifty four, Atlanta, Georgia. A black man 313 00:21:38,476 --> 00:21:40,916 Speaker 2: waves a white woman's underwear in the air in front 314 00:21:40,916 --> 00:21:44,356 Speaker 2: of an all white jury. Now who's that for? Is 315 00:21:44,396 --> 00:21:46,996 Speaker 2: it for? The jury? Of course, he's saying, Betty Joe 316 00:21:46,996 --> 00:21:50,316 Speaker 2: Bishop is lying through her teeth, but it's really for 317 00:21:50,396 --> 00:21:54,756 Speaker 2: the audience. He's saying enough. You can imagine that up 318 00:21:54,796 --> 00:21:57,556 Speaker 2: in the balcony, there was a collective intake of breath 319 00:21:57,596 --> 00:22:01,556 Speaker 2: at that moment, something that could be heard clear across Atlanta, 320 00:22:01,676 --> 00:22:04,476 Speaker 2: and that night, in a thousand homes, somebody stood up 321 00:22:04,516 --> 00:22:07,636 Speaker 2: and played out that scene, just like Hallowell to a 322 00:22:07,716 --> 00:22:19,076 Speaker 2: chorus of disbelief. Willie Nash goes free. But it's still 323 00:22:19,236 --> 00:22:22,556 Speaker 2: not a real victory, because what's the real lesson of 324 00:22:22,596 --> 00:22:26,396 Speaker 2: the false indictment of Willie Nash? That every white person 325 00:22:26,596 --> 00:22:32,996 Speaker 2: in that courtroom lied freely and blatantly. The police LIEDE, 326 00:22:33,196 --> 00:22:36,356 Speaker 2: the witness liede, the victim lied, the press slide. The 327 00:22:36,476 --> 00:22:39,516 Speaker 2: murder weapon wasn't a murder weapon, the rape wasn't a rape. 328 00:22:41,436 --> 00:22:43,956 Speaker 2: And the only reason all the liars got caught was 329 00:22:43,996 --> 00:22:46,716 Speaker 2: they couldn't even be bothered to keep their story straight. 330 00:22:48,036 --> 00:22:50,876 Speaker 2: It didn't seem worth the effort. I know you think 331 00:22:50,916 --> 00:22:53,916 Speaker 2: I did it, but a nigger did it. It's not 332 00:22:53,996 --> 00:22:56,236 Speaker 2: as if the whole group of them, the victim, the 333 00:22:56,236 --> 00:22:59,516 Speaker 2: police officer, the witness, the doctor, the press got in 334 00:22:59,556 --> 00:23:01,756 Speaker 2: a room and worked out an elaborate story to tell 335 00:23:01,796 --> 00:23:04,916 Speaker 2: the court that would be a conspiracy. But you only 336 00:23:04,956 --> 00:23:08,636 Speaker 2: need a conspiracy where there is a system to conspire against. 337 00:23:09,516 --> 00:23:15,796 Speaker 2: There was no system to conspire against. They were the system. 338 00:23:16,676 --> 00:23:19,956 Speaker 2: The Nash case wasn't a victory, but it was a warning. 339 00:23:23,156 --> 00:23:25,836 Speaker 2: Things got worse for the civil rights movement before they 340 00:23:25,876 --> 00:23:29,276 Speaker 2: got better. The William Nash Caase was in nineteen fifty four, 341 00:23:29,676 --> 00:23:31,836 Speaker 2: the same year that the Supreme Court ruled in the 342 00:23:31,836 --> 00:23:36,756 Speaker 2: Brownvie Board of Education decision that racial segregation was unconstitutional. 343 00:23:38,796 --> 00:23:41,276 Speaker 2: After Brown came what is known in civil rights history 344 00:23:41,436 --> 00:23:45,916 Speaker 2: as massive resistance. The white political power structure of the 345 00:23:45,956 --> 00:23:50,556 Speaker 2: South rose up, and the backlash began. One by one, 346 00:23:50,996 --> 00:23:53,796 Speaker 2: white governors and mayors and senators who had been at 347 00:23:53,876 --> 00:23:58,116 Speaker 2: least moderate racial issues were replaced by hard line racists. 348 00:23:59,076 --> 00:24:02,276 Speaker 2: Alabama had a governor in the nineteen fifties, Big Jim Fulsom, 349 00:24:02,436 --> 00:24:05,476 Speaker 2: who used to say, all men are just alike. I 350 00:24:05,516 --> 00:24:07,796 Speaker 2: don't think he really meant it, but at least he 351 00:24:07,876 --> 00:24:10,956 Speaker 2: was willing to say it. By the early nineteen sixties, 352 00:24:11,356 --> 00:24:15,516 Speaker 2: Alabama had taken a big step backwards. Their new governor 353 00:24:15,836 --> 00:24:18,916 Speaker 2: was George Wallace, who famously declared. 354 00:24:18,596 --> 00:24:24,756 Speaker 1: Segregation now, segregation, Tomarra, and segregation forever. 355 00:24:28,636 --> 00:24:31,236 Speaker 2: The decade leading up to the nineteen sixty four Civil 356 00:24:31,316 --> 00:24:34,676 Speaker 2: Rights Act was a dark time in American racial history. 357 00:24:35,356 --> 00:24:38,916 Speaker 2: We forget this now. Martin Luther King led the Montgomery 358 00:24:38,916 --> 00:24:42,716 Speaker 2: bus boycott in nineteen fifty six, but after that he 359 00:24:42,836 --> 00:24:45,716 Speaker 2: had years in the wilderness when even members of his 360 00:24:45,756 --> 00:24:49,236 Speaker 2: own community had turned against him. And in October of 361 00:24:49,316 --> 00:24:54,076 Speaker 2: nineteen sixty at the lowest EBB King gets arrested. He 362 00:24:54,196 --> 00:24:57,676 Speaker 2: was already on probation for a traffic violation. He'd move 363 00:24:57,756 --> 00:25:00,636 Speaker 2: from Alabama to Georgia and didn't get a Georgia driver's 364 00:25:00,636 --> 00:25:03,676 Speaker 2: license within the requisite ninety days, for which he had 365 00:25:03,716 --> 00:25:07,756 Speaker 2: been sentenced to twelve months in public works camp, which 366 00:25:07,836 --> 00:25:11,836 Speaker 2: was the Georgia euphemism for a chain gang. King got 367 00:25:11,876 --> 00:25:14,716 Speaker 2: that sentence suspended, but then he got picked up for 368 00:25:14,756 --> 00:25:17,476 Speaker 2: taking part in a sit in, and the prosecutor said 369 00:25:17,636 --> 00:25:21,116 Speaker 2: that meant he'd violated his probation and now he needed 370 00:25:21,116 --> 00:25:24,116 Speaker 2: to do his twelve months on the chain gang. By 371 00:25:24,116 --> 00:25:26,916 Speaker 2: the way, if you think that this has anything to 372 00:25:26,996 --> 00:25:31,116 Speaker 2: do with driving in Georgia with an Alabama license, you're crazy. 373 00:25:31,196 --> 00:25:34,436 Speaker 2: This is what things had come to in nineteen sixty. 374 00:25:36,076 --> 00:25:38,756 Speaker 4: You have asked me what other plans do we have 375 00:25:38,956 --> 00:25:42,436 Speaker 4: in connection with Reverend Martin Luther King's release? 376 00:25:43,036 --> 00:25:46,516 Speaker 2: So who does King call for help? Donald L. Hollowell? 377 00:25:46,556 --> 00:25:50,396 Speaker 2: Of course. In the morning after King's arrest, Hollowell stands 378 00:25:50,396 --> 00:25:54,996 Speaker 2: on the Dukalb County Courthouse steps addressing a group of reporters. 379 00:25:55,236 --> 00:25:57,556 Speaker 4: Of course, this would depend upon whether or not the 380 00:25:57,756 --> 00:26:02,916 Speaker 4: court granted our motion to vacate the order of yesterday. 381 00:26:03,716 --> 00:26:06,316 Speaker 4: If the court fails to release him, of course we 382 00:26:06,356 --> 00:26:10,516 Speaker 4: would take other steps to appeal or to affect. 383 00:26:10,756 --> 00:26:13,796 Speaker 2: Hallowell is trying to get King's case thrown out, but 384 00:26:13,916 --> 00:26:16,596 Speaker 2: the problem is that King is no longer in Atlanta. 385 00:26:17,636 --> 00:26:23,756 Speaker 2: He's banished. In Maurice Daniels documentary, Hallowell's wife Louise talks 386 00:26:23,796 --> 00:26:26,596 Speaker 2: about what happened when her husband went to retrieve King 387 00:26:26,676 --> 00:26:30,796 Speaker 2: from the county jail, only to be confronted by the warden. 388 00:26:30,676 --> 00:26:33,396 Speaker 3: When he got there. He said, I came to get 389 00:26:34,156 --> 00:26:36,596 Speaker 3: a king out this morning, or something like that to 390 00:26:36,636 --> 00:26:41,556 Speaker 3: that effect. And he said, well, he ain't here. And 391 00:26:41,596 --> 00:26:44,156 Speaker 3: he said, well, what do you mean he ain't here? 392 00:26:45,036 --> 00:26:48,796 Speaker 3: He said, well, they took him away this morning. Sometime 393 00:26:49,476 --> 00:26:52,796 Speaker 3: and they carried him down to the state prison, and 394 00:26:52,836 --> 00:26:55,396 Speaker 3: he said, that's what he is. He ain't here, so 395 00:26:55,556 --> 00:26:58,796 Speaker 3: you can't get him. Well, mister Hallowell didn't like that. 396 00:26:59,916 --> 00:27:04,196 Speaker 2: I love that line. Mister Hallowell didn't like that. Daniels 397 00:27:04,196 --> 00:27:07,396 Speaker 2: picks up the story with Andrew Young, another of King's 398 00:27:07,396 --> 00:27:08,076 Speaker 2: inner circle. 399 00:27:08,476 --> 00:27:11,716 Speaker 7: That was a word night of Martin Luther King's life. 400 00:27:11,956 --> 00:27:14,436 Speaker 7: They took him from the Decalb County, put him in 401 00:27:14,516 --> 00:27:18,676 Speaker 7: leg irons and handcuffs, laid him on the floor in 402 00:27:18,716 --> 00:27:22,116 Speaker 7: the back of a paddywagon with nobody back there but 403 00:27:22,156 --> 00:27:26,916 Speaker 7: a German shepherd, and they drove him from Atlanta to Reidsville. 404 00:27:27,196 --> 00:27:30,516 Speaker 7: It's three hundred miles. There were no expressways then, three 405 00:27:30,596 --> 00:27:32,796 Speaker 7: hundred miles on bad Georgia roads. 406 00:27:33,396 --> 00:27:36,916 Speaker 2: Reidsville the same place where Jordan and Hallowell ate their 407 00:27:36,916 --> 00:27:40,596 Speaker 2: Bologney sandwich in the car. They know the town well. 408 00:27:40,756 --> 00:27:44,276 Speaker 2: The state prison in Reidsville was notorious. It was the 409 00:27:44,356 --> 00:27:46,996 Speaker 2: kind of place where they used that phrase in quotation 410 00:27:47,156 --> 00:27:50,676 Speaker 2: marks that somebody got shot trying to escape, or where 411 00:27:50,676 --> 00:27:52,156 Speaker 2: they got beat up by a guard out on the 412 00:27:52,236 --> 00:27:57,436 Speaker 2: chain gang. When King's followers heard Reidsville, they honestly feared 413 00:27:57,436 --> 00:28:00,076 Speaker 2: that he was going to end up dead, but there's 414 00:28:00,076 --> 00:28:02,876 Speaker 2: not a hint of that in his attorney on the courthouse. 415 00:28:02,436 --> 00:28:06,716 Speaker 4: Steps, learning that Reverend King had been taken to the 416 00:28:06,836 --> 00:28:11,996 Speaker 4: Reidsville prison, I would say that I indicated two authorities 417 00:28:12,036 --> 00:28:16,156 Speaker 4: on last evening that we were desirous of having Reverend 418 00:28:16,236 --> 00:28:17,636 Speaker 4: King at this hearing. 419 00:28:18,516 --> 00:28:20,636 Speaker 1: However, they informed. 420 00:28:20,156 --> 00:28:24,876 Speaker 4: Me that they had already transmitted the papers yesterday afternoon 421 00:28:24,916 --> 00:28:26,996 Speaker 4: to the Board of Correction, and that it was in 422 00:28:27,076 --> 00:28:30,396 Speaker 4: their purview to move him when they desired. 423 00:28:32,676 --> 00:28:37,356 Speaker 2: Hallowell's composure does not break why because he's not just 424 00:28:37,436 --> 00:28:40,676 Speaker 2: talking to those reporters. He's talking to the black people 425 00:28:40,716 --> 00:28:43,636 Speaker 2: of Georgia, telling them that it will take more than 426 00:28:43,676 --> 00:28:46,356 Speaker 2: the abduction of their leader to break the spirit of 427 00:28:46,396 --> 00:28:46,956 Speaker 2: their movement. 428 00:28:47,516 --> 00:28:51,356 Speaker 4: We know that it's a matter of normal practice, it 429 00:28:51,436 --> 00:28:55,036 Speaker 4: is several days before a prisoner is moved. However, when 430 00:28:55,036 --> 00:28:57,796 Speaker 4: we called at eight for the purpose of ascertaining the 431 00:28:57,796 --> 00:29:01,796 Speaker 4: whereabouts or the sheriff for making service, we were informed 432 00:29:01,796 --> 00:29:05,036 Speaker 4: that Reverend King had been taken down to Reichsville at 433 00:29:05,196 --> 00:29:06,556 Speaker 4: four or five this morning. 434 00:29:09,356 --> 00:29:14,276 Speaker 2: That day, Hallowell flew to Reidsville, invited along the National media. 435 00:29:15,076 --> 00:29:19,636 Speaker 2: The White House was watching. Hallowell walked into Reidsville and 436 00:29:19,836 --> 00:29:24,116 Speaker 2: walked out with his client. It's a surreal moment. The 437 00:29:24,156 --> 00:29:27,676 Speaker 2: state of Georgia basically tried to kidnap the nation's leading 438 00:29:27,716 --> 00:29:32,516 Speaker 2: civil rights leader. There's press everywhere. Someone puts a camera 439 00:29:32,556 --> 00:29:35,796 Speaker 2: in Martin Luther King's face. Everyone's eyes are on him. 440 00:29:35,996 --> 00:29:38,516 Speaker 2: There's a famous picture of that moment. It ran in 441 00:29:38,516 --> 00:29:41,756 Speaker 2: all the newspapers, and you can imagine that when people 442 00:29:41,796 --> 00:29:44,516 Speaker 2: from the movement saw it, they first looked to see 443 00:29:44,556 --> 00:29:48,476 Speaker 2: whether King was okay, and then they asked, where's Hollowell. 444 00:29:49,156 --> 00:29:53,076 Speaker 2: Sure enough, there he was in the background, off a 445 00:29:53,076 --> 00:30:00,356 Speaker 2: little to the left, crisp white shirt, elegant black bow tie, impassive, implacable. 446 00:30:04,836 --> 00:30:07,356 Speaker 1: This is put gave me hope. 447 00:30:07,876 --> 00:30:11,956 Speaker 2: Okay, and Jordan again. I went to see him to 448 00:30:11,996 --> 00:30:15,676 Speaker 2: talk about Hollowell, but more than that, because I wanted 449 00:30:15,716 --> 00:30:19,516 Speaker 2: to understand what it means to persevere. It's not just 450 00:30:19,596 --> 00:30:23,436 Speaker 2: that these stories are shocking and extraordinary, it's the sheer 451 00:30:23,596 --> 00:30:27,436 Speaker 2: weight of them. A white woman has her boyfriend murdered 452 00:30:27,636 --> 00:30:29,836 Speaker 2: and then just randomly pins it on a black man 453 00:30:29,956 --> 00:30:32,956 Speaker 2: who just happens to be in the neighborhood. A police 454 00:30:32,956 --> 00:30:35,796 Speaker 2: officer shoots a teenager in the back and gets off 455 00:30:35,796 --> 00:30:40,076 Speaker 2: scott free. A kid gets arrested, arraigned, indicted, tried, convicted, 456 00:30:40,116 --> 00:30:43,396 Speaker 2: and sentenced to die before he can even mount a defence. 457 00:30:44,356 --> 00:30:46,956 Speaker 2: Your leader gets whisked away to a chain gang because 458 00:30:46,956 --> 00:30:50,236 Speaker 2: he didn't get his license changed within ninety days. You 459 00:30:50,276 --> 00:30:53,276 Speaker 2: fight an uphill battle all morning in the courtroom. Then 460 00:30:53,316 --> 00:30:56,156 Speaker 2: you eat your bologney sandwich in your car like a fugitive, 461 00:30:56,956 --> 00:30:59,676 Speaker 2: and it never ends. You get in the car and 462 00:30:59,716 --> 00:31:01,676 Speaker 2: you drive to one end of the state, and the 463 00:31:01,756 --> 00:31:04,796 Speaker 2: judge swivels in his chair and will not offer you 464 00:31:04,836 --> 00:31:08,636 Speaker 2: the basic courtesy of facing you as you speak. Then 465 00:31:08,676 --> 00:31:11,316 Speaker 2: you sleep too in a bed in a stranger's house, 466 00:31:11,876 --> 00:31:14,476 Speaker 2: and do it all again the next day and the 467 00:31:14,516 --> 00:31:18,556 Speaker 2: next day. I don't understand how Donald Holliwell did it, 468 00:31:19,476 --> 00:31:22,996 Speaker 2: And maybe more importantly, I don't understand how he kept 469 00:31:23,036 --> 00:31:26,596 Speaker 2: everyone else, the people behind him who didn't have his strength, 470 00:31:27,236 --> 00:31:31,276 Speaker 2: from giving up. Is there any question more fundamental than that? 471 00:31:32,116 --> 00:31:42,156 Speaker 2: I'm not sure there is. So I went back to Vernon, 472 00:31:42,236 --> 00:31:46,396 Speaker 2: Jordan a second time after he's told me about Nathaniel 473 00:31:46,476 --> 00:31:49,996 Speaker 2: Johnson and Willie Nash I sat in his office in 474 00:31:50,076 --> 00:31:54,676 Speaker 2: Rockefeller Center and he told me one last story. It's 475 00:31:54,716 --> 00:31:57,356 Speaker 2: about when he was in high school the same school, 476 00:31:57,396 --> 00:32:00,716 Speaker 2: Martin Luther King went to David Howard High on Randolph Street, 477 00:32:01,196 --> 00:32:03,556 Speaker 2: an all black school in the black part of town. 478 00:32:04,476 --> 00:32:07,676 Speaker 2: Jordan was in the band, and one day the principal 479 00:32:07,716 --> 00:32:11,196 Speaker 2: gets a call from the school's superintendent, a white woman. 480 00:32:12,156 --> 00:32:16,236 Speaker 2: The senator from Georgia, Richard Russell, was running for president. 481 00:32:16,596 --> 00:32:19,436 Speaker 1: She wanted the Dave D. Howard High School band to 482 00:32:19,436 --> 00:32:23,316 Speaker 1: be at Peastree in Baker Streets to play with these 483 00:32:23,356 --> 00:32:26,556 Speaker 1: hand me down instruments of white schools. As Richard Russell 484 00:32:26,636 --> 00:32:30,516 Speaker 1: went up p Street Street on his way to sixteen 485 00:32:30,556 --> 00:32:31,916 Speaker 1: hundred Pennsylvania Avenue. 486 00:32:33,196 --> 00:32:36,916 Speaker 2: Richard Russell was a hard core segregationist, one of the 487 00:32:36,956 --> 00:32:40,316 Speaker 2: most powerful men in the Senate, who used his position 488 00:32:40,396 --> 00:32:43,836 Speaker 2: to block anything even looking like civil rights. A man 489 00:32:43,876 --> 00:32:46,316 Speaker 2: who was a matter of principal did not think black 490 00:32:46,356 --> 00:32:48,876 Speaker 2: people should be allowed to drink from the same water 491 00:32:48,956 --> 00:32:52,276 Speaker 2: fountain as white people. This man one of the black 492 00:32:52,276 --> 00:32:54,356 Speaker 2: students of Atlanta to play in his honor. 493 00:32:57,196 --> 00:33:00,476 Speaker 1: The principal told the band master, and the bandmaster told 494 00:33:00,556 --> 00:33:05,836 Speaker 1: us at band practice at two thirty, a trombone player 495 00:33:05,916 --> 00:33:10,876 Speaker 1: named Maynard Jackson and a trumpet player named Vernon Jordans 496 00:33:10,916 --> 00:33:18,716 Speaker 1: said hell, no, we won't go. Big discussion took place, right. 497 00:33:18,596 --> 00:33:22,116 Speaker 2: You and Maynor Jackson were at school together. Yeah, Maynor 498 00:33:22,276 --> 00:33:25,156 Speaker 2: Jackson in his day was part of the same band 499 00:33:25,156 --> 00:33:28,676 Speaker 2: of brothers as Donald Hallowell and Vernon Jordan and Martin 500 00:33:28,796 --> 00:33:29,316 Speaker 2: Luther King. 501 00:33:30,476 --> 00:33:35,276 Speaker 1: The big argument took place, and at the end the 502 00:33:35,316 --> 00:33:37,716 Speaker 1: trumbone player and the trumpet player I said, wait a minute. 503 00:33:37,756 --> 00:33:40,756 Speaker 1: We raised it, but we gotta go because if we 504 00:33:40,836 --> 00:33:46,596 Speaker 1: don't go, our principal and our bandmaster would lose their jobs. 505 00:33:47,676 --> 00:33:50,556 Speaker 1: So we played at Peach Street and Baker Street for 506 00:33:50,676 --> 00:33:52,676 Speaker 1: Richard Russell in nineteen fifty one. 507 00:33:53,356 --> 00:33:54,636 Speaker 2: He swallowed your pride. 508 00:33:54,916 --> 00:34:00,756 Speaker 1: It wasn't the pride, it was a practical decision. Twenty 509 00:34:00,836 --> 00:34:04,916 Speaker 1: one years later, Maynord Jackson was sworn in as mayor 510 00:34:04,916 --> 00:34:09,316 Speaker 1: of Atlanta. Right, so you got nineteen fifty one on 511 00:34:09,436 --> 00:34:12,476 Speaker 1: a bad situation and you get through it. Twenty one 512 00:34:12,596 --> 00:34:16,916 Speaker 1: years later he is conducting the political Symphony of Atlanta. 513 00:34:17,876 --> 00:34:19,596 Speaker 1: And that's why you can't get angry. You have to 514 00:34:19,636 --> 00:34:20,236 Speaker 1: get smart. 515 00:34:22,516 --> 00:34:26,516 Speaker 2: Yeah, at least did you at least play badly. 516 00:34:26,956 --> 00:34:29,796 Speaker 1: No, we were too good. We were We were a 517 00:34:29,836 --> 00:34:41,756 Speaker 1: hell of a man. 518 00:34:48,396 --> 00:34:51,916 Speaker 2: Revision's History is produced by Emi LaBelle and Jacob Smith, 519 00:34:51,996 --> 00:34:55,916 Speaker 2: with Camille Baptista, Stephanie Daniel, and sill Mara Martinez White. 520 00:34:56,596 --> 00:35:00,436 Speaker 2: Our editor is Julia Barton. Lawn Williams is our engineer. 521 00:35:00,876 --> 00:35:04,676 Speaker 2: Original music by Luis Scara. Special thanks to our actors 522 00:35:05,036 --> 00:35:08,276 Speaker 2: Jody Markel and Ken Marx, and to Andy Bauers and 523 00:35:08,356 --> 00:35:11,196 Speaker 2: Jacob Weisberget Cannaply. I'm Malcolm Graddler