1 00:00:05,120 --> 00:00:07,640 Speaker 1: Hey, this is Annie and Samantha and welcome to Stephanie. 2 00:00:07,680 --> 00:00:18,799 Speaker 1: Never told you protection of I Heart Radio, and it 3 00:00:18,920 --> 00:00:21,799 Speaker 1: is time for another edition of Female First, which means 4 00:00:21,880 --> 00:00:26,000 Speaker 1: we are once again joined by the fantastic, fabulous, wonderful 5 00:00:26,120 --> 00:00:29,520 Speaker 1: Eve's welcome to you. Thank you for the warm welcome. 6 00:00:29,960 --> 00:00:32,720 Speaker 1: Yes always, you know we love to have you, and 7 00:00:32,800 --> 00:00:36,040 Speaker 1: you just gave us the most amazing like book show. 8 00:00:38,040 --> 00:00:41,559 Speaker 1: It was great. It was a fantastic listeners. We got 9 00:00:41,560 --> 00:00:43,800 Speaker 1: like a little demonstration of all these books that he's 10 00:00:43,840 --> 00:00:46,559 Speaker 1: picked up. Um. But yeah, last time we had you on, 11 00:00:46,680 --> 00:00:49,000 Speaker 1: you were talking about how you were going on a trip, 12 00:00:49,080 --> 00:00:51,720 Speaker 1: and we also just talked about how like condensing that 13 00:00:51,760 --> 00:00:53,680 Speaker 1: and small talk is stressful. So I'm going to ask 14 00:00:53,680 --> 00:00:55,920 Speaker 1: you to do it again. Can you give some highlights 15 00:00:55,960 --> 00:00:58,840 Speaker 1: of your trip for the listeners? Well, I'm happy to, 16 00:00:58,960 --> 00:01:01,400 Speaker 1: I really am. It's it's fun recapping because I feel 17 00:01:01,440 --> 00:01:04,320 Speaker 1: like something new when you talk about something you did 18 00:01:04,400 --> 00:01:07,160 Speaker 1: to people that is a long story multiple times, I 19 00:01:07,160 --> 00:01:09,839 Speaker 1: feel like something new really does come out each time. 20 00:01:10,280 --> 00:01:13,000 Speaker 1: But and also there's so much the process too, so 21 00:01:13,040 --> 00:01:15,920 Speaker 1: it's like helping me process. So I appreciate it. I'm 22 00:01:15,959 --> 00:01:19,520 Speaker 1: not complaining about it. But yes I did. I did 23 00:01:19,600 --> 00:01:21,920 Speaker 1: go on my trip. I was away for a month. 24 00:01:22,000 --> 00:01:25,679 Speaker 1: I went to Zambia and South Africa and Botswana for 25 00:01:25,720 --> 00:01:28,760 Speaker 1: a day just to go to a park to see 26 00:01:28,840 --> 00:01:34,160 Speaker 1: lots of lovely animals, and it was very eye opening. 27 00:01:34,280 --> 00:01:39,800 Speaker 1: Everything was beautiful, all the people were wonderful, and I 28 00:01:39,920 --> 00:01:43,520 Speaker 1: felt very welcome everywhere I went. I had lots of 29 00:01:43,680 --> 00:01:47,880 Speaker 1: lovely like outdoor and nature experiences, which you all know 30 00:01:47,960 --> 00:01:50,440 Speaker 1: that I love. But I also had lots of lovely 31 00:01:50,760 --> 00:01:55,160 Speaker 1: different kinds of city experiences um in Zambia and in 32 00:01:55,600 --> 00:01:59,840 Speaker 1: Cape Town as well, and I really enjoyed my time there. 33 00:02:00,080 --> 00:02:03,680 Speaker 1: I got to hike, I got to eat so much food, 34 00:02:03,720 --> 00:02:07,200 Speaker 1: which is one thing I'm readjusting to having to cook 35 00:02:07,320 --> 00:02:11,320 Speaker 1: myself because I didn't do any of that. I was 36 00:02:11,480 --> 00:02:13,679 Speaker 1: in a hotel a lot of the time, so but yeah, 37 00:02:13,800 --> 00:02:16,200 Speaker 1: I didn't do do any of that while I was 38 00:02:16,800 --> 00:02:21,000 Speaker 1: while I was there, so currently readjusting and readjusting to 39 00:02:21,200 --> 00:02:24,560 Speaker 1: the weather because it is getting cold here in Atlanta. 40 00:02:25,280 --> 00:02:29,320 Speaker 1: But yeah, everything. The quick recap is that everything was great. 41 00:02:29,440 --> 00:02:31,400 Speaker 1: I was there for a month, had a great time. 42 00:02:32,360 --> 00:02:35,040 Speaker 1: I want to go back, miss it. Of course, I 43 00:02:35,080 --> 00:02:37,200 Speaker 1: still am in those posts travel I'm still in the 44 00:02:37,320 --> 00:02:43,240 Speaker 1: post travel blues phase, and also seasonal post travel blues 45 00:02:43,400 --> 00:02:45,919 Speaker 1: rose really well into seasonal depression. You know what I mean? 46 00:02:49,440 --> 00:02:56,760 Speaker 1: What a combo want to punch seriously? Seriously, Um, I 47 00:02:56,800 --> 00:02:59,440 Speaker 1: do have a good time. We were lucky enough to 48 00:02:59,480 --> 00:03:06,240 Speaker 1: hear something ales some perhaps perilous kayak times. But also, yes, 49 00:03:06,400 --> 00:03:08,320 Speaker 1: you picked up a lot of books while you were there, 50 00:03:08,400 --> 00:03:12,080 Speaker 1: and last time you were on Yes the show, you 51 00:03:12,200 --> 00:03:14,400 Speaker 1: said like, I think I'm going to get some inspiration 52 00:03:14,440 --> 00:03:16,560 Speaker 1: when I'm there, and correct me if I'm wrong, but 53 00:03:16,639 --> 00:03:20,400 Speaker 1: I believe I did, and that I did. I said 54 00:03:20,440 --> 00:03:22,560 Speaker 1: that too, and I had to hold myself accountable while 55 00:03:22,560 --> 00:03:25,720 Speaker 1: I was there. That's I was perusing those books that 56 00:03:25,800 --> 00:03:28,480 Speaker 1: I was so hard when I was there, and there 57 00:03:28,480 --> 00:03:31,040 Speaker 1: were plenty of people that did come up, Like while 58 00:03:31,080 --> 00:03:33,440 Speaker 1: I was looking through things there, I went to a 59 00:03:33,480 --> 00:03:36,560 Speaker 1: few museums, went to a few bookstores, so everyone knows, 60 00:03:36,720 --> 00:03:42,200 Speaker 1: and got a lot of information there and inspiration about people, 61 00:03:42,960 --> 00:03:46,320 Speaker 1: Lots of people I would love to look more into. Um. Also, 62 00:03:46,400 --> 00:03:51,920 Speaker 1: people who uh stories aren't necessarily as accessible to me 63 00:03:51,960 --> 00:03:54,520 Speaker 1: because of language reasons, but also because they may not 64 00:03:54,600 --> 00:03:58,640 Speaker 1: have been have substantial biographies written on them. And may 65 00:03:58,640 --> 00:04:02,240 Speaker 1: not have that much that is publicly available knowledge beyond 66 00:04:02,600 --> 00:04:06,960 Speaker 1: the family that may have survived them if they're not 67 00:04:06,960 --> 00:04:10,560 Speaker 1: living anymore. But I did, I did get less inspiration 68 00:04:11,040 --> 00:04:15,760 Speaker 1: and brought that here today, which I'm excited about. There 69 00:04:15,760 --> 00:04:19,400 Speaker 1: are loads and loads of people on the African continent 70 00:04:19,480 --> 00:04:24,200 Speaker 1: and in Zambia and in South Africa specifically, which are 71 00:04:24,240 --> 00:04:28,839 Speaker 1: the places that I went that are have deep histories 72 00:04:29,000 --> 00:04:35,920 Speaker 1: in anti colonial resistance, anti apartheime movements, black consciousness movements, 73 00:04:36,640 --> 00:04:41,280 Speaker 1: gender based movements, all of those things. So there is 74 00:04:41,320 --> 00:04:46,000 Speaker 1: a wealth of information that I could delve into about 75 00:04:46,040 --> 00:04:48,880 Speaker 1: those things that everybody can research. Plenty of figures who 76 00:04:48,920 --> 00:04:51,920 Speaker 1: are well known and some that aren't so well known. Yes, 77 00:04:52,320 --> 00:04:54,400 Speaker 1: and I know, Samantha and I are very very excited 78 00:04:55,000 --> 00:04:59,880 Speaker 1: as you work through these books getting updates, seeing one 79 00:05:00,000 --> 00:05:04,040 Speaker 1: comes from that, hopefully on this segment. But in the meantime, 80 00:05:04,400 --> 00:05:06,760 Speaker 1: who did you bring for us to discuss today, yarse? 81 00:05:07,320 --> 00:05:11,039 Speaker 1: Today we are talking about Lilian Engloyye. So she was 82 00:05:11,080 --> 00:05:14,479 Speaker 1: the first woman elected to the National Executive Committee of 83 00:05:14,520 --> 00:05:19,840 Speaker 1: the African National Congress. Yes, um, and it once again 84 00:05:19,960 --> 00:05:24,920 Speaker 1: is another another amazing story that has so much like 85 00:05:25,080 --> 00:05:27,599 Speaker 1: context and history and threats and all the stuff coming 86 00:05:27,640 --> 00:05:30,120 Speaker 1: together and for this one person and not how much 87 00:05:30,160 --> 00:05:34,120 Speaker 1: she did and how much she accomplished. So I'm excited 88 00:05:34,160 --> 00:05:37,479 Speaker 1: to delve more into it. Shall we get started with 89 00:05:37,600 --> 00:05:41,080 Speaker 1: the history? Yes, let's do. Let's do. So. She was 90 00:05:41,120 --> 00:05:46,200 Speaker 1: born Lillian Masba Mataba and Pretoria in nineteen eleven and 91 00:05:46,279 --> 00:05:49,160 Speaker 1: that's in the northeast part of the country, just northeast 92 00:05:49,160 --> 00:05:52,960 Speaker 1: of Johannesburg. So I think that we have talked about 93 00:05:53,120 --> 00:05:55,600 Speaker 1: or maybe we have talked about a part time before 94 00:05:56,080 --> 00:05:59,680 Speaker 1: and the female first segments. UM. But for a quick 95 00:05:59,720 --> 00:06:04,320 Speaker 1: history context, there's a long history UM in South Africa 96 00:06:04,400 --> 00:06:09,599 Speaker 1: of colonialism goes back into enslaved people coming from many 97 00:06:09,640 --> 00:06:13,440 Speaker 1: different parts of the world and landing in areas in 98 00:06:13,520 --> 00:06:18,120 Speaker 1: South Africa. But UM, fast forwarding a lot in that history. 99 00:06:18,560 --> 00:06:21,120 Speaker 1: At a certain point there was the Union of South Africa, 100 00:06:21,160 --> 00:06:25,279 Speaker 1: which united British colonies in Southern Africa. That was formed 101 00:06:25,279 --> 00:06:28,679 Speaker 1: in nineteen ten and that was a self governing dominion 102 00:06:28,760 --> 00:06:32,120 Speaker 1: that was still within the British Empire. So under colonial 103 00:06:32,200 --> 00:06:35,400 Speaker 1: rule there was slavery. There was like I said, there 104 00:06:35,440 --> 00:06:38,600 Speaker 1: was racial discrimination as well in the aftermath of that, 105 00:06:39,080 --> 00:06:43,359 Speaker 1: continuing against non white people because there was a mix 106 00:06:43,400 --> 00:06:47,040 Speaker 1: of many different cultures, as is what often happens through 107 00:06:47,880 --> 00:06:52,520 Speaker 1: enslaved people arriving in a location, but that in it 108 00:06:52,600 --> 00:06:56,800 Speaker 1: was also included and encoded in legislation. So the what 109 00:06:56,839 --> 00:07:00,640 Speaker 1: would be considered apartheid era began in South Africa in 110 00:07:00,760 --> 00:07:05,520 Speaker 1: nineteen although there were precursors to that era of course, 111 00:07:05,640 --> 00:07:08,919 Speaker 1: and still vestiges of it that continue there today. The 112 00:07:09,000 --> 00:07:13,360 Speaker 1: National Party at that point enshrined racial segregation and white 113 00:07:13,400 --> 00:07:18,520 Speaker 1: supremacy as federal policy, and apartheid touched all parts of life, 114 00:07:18,560 --> 00:07:24,840 Speaker 1: so that was education, labor, housing, politics and voting, transportation 115 00:07:24,880 --> 00:07:30,560 Speaker 1: and travel, access to public facilities, etcetera, etcetera. That system 116 00:07:30,760 --> 00:07:35,600 Speaker 1: separated people into the whites, the Indians, the colors, and 117 00:07:35,640 --> 00:07:39,600 Speaker 1: the blacks. So many acts over the years restricted non 118 00:07:39,720 --> 00:07:45,640 Speaker 1: lites freedoms that led to things like censorship, disenfranchisement, violence, 119 00:07:46,280 --> 00:07:49,960 Speaker 1: force removals, and poverty. And that also, of course, on 120 00:07:50,000 --> 00:07:53,800 Speaker 1: the flip side, led to plenty of resistance anti apartheid movements, 121 00:07:53,880 --> 00:07:59,600 Speaker 1: organizations and leaders and up resons thought black consciousness things 122 00:07:59,640 --> 00:08:04,400 Speaker 1: like that. So that is the that is apartheide one 123 00:08:04,400 --> 00:08:09,480 Speaker 1: on one light um just for a little context of 124 00:08:09,520 --> 00:08:14,000 Speaker 1: the era and the environment that Goye was born into, 125 00:08:14,680 --> 00:08:17,360 Speaker 1: and she had siblings, but she was the only girl. 126 00:08:18,160 --> 00:08:22,119 Speaker 1: Her mother was domestic worker. Her father was a miner 127 00:08:22,160 --> 00:08:26,760 Speaker 1: and a laborer and he died of lung disease. But 128 00:08:27,040 --> 00:08:30,640 Speaker 1: she went to primary school at the Kilnerton Institution, which 129 00:08:30,760 --> 00:08:35,160 Speaker 1: was a Black Methodist school. She did end up leaving 130 00:08:35,200 --> 00:08:39,520 Speaker 1: school early and began training as a nurse at the 131 00:08:39,600 --> 00:08:43,840 Speaker 1: City deep Mine Hospital. During that time, she married a 132 00:08:43,880 --> 00:08:47,880 Speaker 1: man who was a van driver named John Gerard and 133 00:08:47,920 --> 00:08:52,600 Speaker 1: Goye and they had a daughter, and so she later 134 00:08:52,640 --> 00:08:57,640 Speaker 1: became a seamstress and a domestic worker. But in seven, 135 00:08:57,800 --> 00:09:01,960 Speaker 1: a few years after the couple married, John died in 136 00:09:01,960 --> 00:09:06,240 Speaker 1: a car accident and she ended up supporting her children 137 00:09:06,520 --> 00:09:09,959 Speaker 1: and another child I believe was her niece and her mother. 138 00:09:10,679 --> 00:09:14,240 Speaker 1: So she did get a job as a machinist working 139 00:09:14,280 --> 00:09:17,760 Speaker 1: in a clothing factory and she worked there from nineteen 140 00:09:17,800 --> 00:09:22,240 Speaker 1: forty five to nineteen fifty six. And it was at 141 00:09:22,240 --> 00:09:26,040 Speaker 1: this point and through her work at the factory, we 142 00:09:26,120 --> 00:09:30,200 Speaker 1: began to see her activism and her participation in the 143 00:09:30,360 --> 00:09:35,080 Speaker 1: political sphere. She joined the Garment Workers Union of the 144 00:09:35,120 --> 00:09:38,920 Speaker 1: Transfall and at the time Sally Sachs was the leader 145 00:09:38,960 --> 00:09:41,760 Speaker 1: of the Garment Workers Union and he has his own 146 00:09:41,800 --> 00:09:47,599 Speaker 1: history UM and complications and controversies UM. He was a 147 00:09:47,679 --> 00:09:52,760 Speaker 1: labor and anti apartheid activists himself. He became secretary of 148 00:09:52,800 --> 00:09:56,160 Speaker 1: the Garment Workers Union in nineteen eight, which itself had 149 00:09:56,240 --> 00:10:00,800 Speaker 1: already a storied history that in early parts of it 150 00:10:00,920 --> 00:10:05,160 Speaker 1: too was limited to white people and two men, and 151 00:10:05,240 --> 00:10:09,200 Speaker 1: it did change over tom but women workers in the 152 00:10:09,240 --> 00:10:12,840 Speaker 1: industry did organize at this point through the union, which 153 00:10:12,880 --> 00:10:17,040 Speaker 1: advocated for better working conditions for the clothing workers, and 154 00:10:17,120 --> 00:10:20,440 Speaker 1: Sacks himself was arrested several times in the nineteen fifty 155 00:10:20,520 --> 00:10:24,800 Speaker 1: two was banned from multiple organizations under the Suppression of 156 00:10:24,840 --> 00:10:28,719 Speaker 1: Communism Act, which does come up a lot in this 157 00:10:28,840 --> 00:10:32,680 Speaker 1: era under apartheid in terms of how different people who 158 00:10:32,679 --> 00:10:37,360 Speaker 1: were speaking up and who were resistant against apartheid were 159 00:10:37,360 --> 00:10:41,040 Speaker 1: persecuted under that banner, but that was enacted by the 160 00:10:41,040 --> 00:10:58,360 Speaker 1: Parliament of South Africa, so garment workers included Engloyee protested 161 00:10:58,480 --> 00:11:03,480 Speaker 1: against his banning and her participation in the DW the 162 00:11:03,600 --> 00:11:09,720 Speaker 1: union helped radicalize her. Sex soon went into exile in England, 163 00:11:09,720 --> 00:11:13,920 Speaker 1: where he did antipart time work still and Meanwhile, in 164 00:11:14,000 --> 00:11:18,960 Speaker 1: South Africa there was introduced legislation that restricted the rights 165 00:11:19,000 --> 00:11:22,080 Speaker 1: of black and so called colored people that were still 166 00:11:22,120 --> 00:11:26,040 Speaker 1: being passed. The Natives Labor Act of nineteen fifty three, 167 00:11:26,080 --> 00:11:33,040 Speaker 1: for instance, banned strikes by Africans. So this was the 168 00:11:33,040 --> 00:11:37,840 Speaker 1: spirit and the energy that boy became a part of 169 00:11:38,600 --> 00:11:40,880 Speaker 1: as a worker and as someone who was in the 170 00:11:41,000 --> 00:11:44,880 Speaker 1: union and as someone who had her consciousness at the 171 00:11:44,920 --> 00:11:50,200 Speaker 1: time she was involved in the Defiance campaign which was 172 00:11:50,400 --> 00:11:54,680 Speaker 1: launched in nineteen fifty two. It was a huge, really 173 00:11:54,720 --> 00:11:59,199 Speaker 1: involved across race, across time, in different places in South Africa, 174 00:11:59,280 --> 00:12:06,160 Speaker 1: campaign of assistance against those apartheid laws, and the National 175 00:12:06,240 --> 00:12:10,640 Speaker 1: Party government had come to power in which we spoke 176 00:12:10,640 --> 00:12:12,240 Speaker 1: about a little bit earlier, and had turned up the 177 00:12:12,280 --> 00:12:16,160 Speaker 1: dial on a lot of the discriminatory legislation. And as 178 00:12:16,160 --> 00:12:20,440 Speaker 1: a part of that defiance campaign there were boycotts, rallies 179 00:12:20,480 --> 00:12:24,040 Speaker 1: and other forms of civil disobedience. Um the a n 180 00:12:24,120 --> 00:12:28,600 Speaker 1: C had kind of turned more to strategies and tactics 181 00:12:28,600 --> 00:12:30,880 Speaker 1: that involved things like civil disobedience at the time, and 182 00:12:30,920 --> 00:12:33,240 Speaker 1: of course this was a huge campaign with many thousands 183 00:12:33,240 --> 00:12:37,600 Speaker 1: of people being involved. Many were arrested for doing things 184 00:12:37,640 --> 00:12:40,800 Speaker 1: like entering segregated spaces that were just for white people, 185 00:12:41,600 --> 00:12:46,079 Speaker 1: um doing things like violating curfew, for going places without passes, 186 00:12:46,960 --> 00:12:52,800 Speaker 1: and for defying other apartheid regulations and going He joined 187 00:12:52,960 --> 00:12:57,319 Speaker 1: the African National Congress during the defiance campaign, so that 188 00:12:57,800 --> 00:13:00,480 Speaker 1: A and C was really focused on its position to 189 00:13:00,520 --> 00:13:04,480 Speaker 1: apartheid through that political action and civil disobedience. She took 190 00:13:04,559 --> 00:13:09,760 Speaker 1: training for volunteers, and what seems to be remarked about 191 00:13:09,760 --> 00:13:13,280 Speaker 1: her herself and her character is her oratory skills. So 192 00:13:13,360 --> 00:13:15,800 Speaker 1: she seemed like she had a really great ability to 193 00:13:16,800 --> 00:13:21,240 Speaker 1: give really passionate and compelling speeches that were able to 194 00:13:21,280 --> 00:13:24,800 Speaker 1: get people riled up to the anti apartheid movement and 195 00:13:24,840 --> 00:13:28,160 Speaker 1: to actually becoming involved in that movement themselves. So I 196 00:13:28,200 --> 00:13:31,959 Speaker 1: think as everyone listening will probably realize by now that 197 00:13:32,000 --> 00:13:35,560 Speaker 1: there are some parallels between the kinds of actions and 198 00:13:35,720 --> 00:13:40,960 Speaker 1: organizing and resistance that's happening here and that happened in 199 00:13:41,000 --> 00:13:43,360 Speaker 1: the United States. And there are a lot of scholars 200 00:13:43,360 --> 00:13:46,760 Speaker 1: who draw those lines between the figures and the movements 201 00:13:46,760 --> 00:13:49,959 Speaker 1: that are happening in both places, on the civil rights 202 00:13:50,040 --> 00:13:54,000 Speaker 1: movement in the United States and the anti apartime movement 203 00:13:54,040 --> 00:13:59,600 Speaker 1: here happening in South Africa. But yeah, so she became 204 00:13:59,720 --> 00:14:04,839 Speaker 1: really active in the movement. She led protests, rallies and 205 00:14:04,920 --> 00:14:09,840 Speaker 1: major cities as well as in rural towns across the country. 206 00:14:10,160 --> 00:14:12,720 Speaker 1: In nineteen fifty two, she was arrested for being in 207 00:14:12,800 --> 00:14:16,360 Speaker 1: a whites only section of a post office and attempting 208 00:14:16,400 --> 00:14:21,160 Speaker 1: to send a telegram to the Prime Minister. But eventually 209 00:14:21,200 --> 00:14:23,960 Speaker 1: she was elected as president of the a n C 210 00:14:24,280 --> 00:14:30,280 Speaker 1: Women's League and she attended a conference that was held 211 00:14:30,480 --> 00:14:35,560 Speaker 1: by the Women's International Democratic Federation. She traveled to Europe, 212 00:14:36,000 --> 00:14:39,680 Speaker 1: to Russia and to China as a delegate of the 213 00:14:39,760 --> 00:14:44,520 Speaker 1: Federation of South African Women, which she joined and was 214 00:14:44,840 --> 00:14:48,800 Speaker 1: elected as its president in nineteen fifty six. And it 215 00:14:48,920 --> 00:14:51,560 Speaker 1: was also that year that she got her first and 216 00:14:51,640 --> 00:14:55,040 Speaker 1: became the first woman elected to the National Executive Committee 217 00:14:55,120 --> 00:15:00,240 Speaker 1: of the African National Congress. So as we do see 218 00:15:00,440 --> 00:15:02,080 Speaker 1: a lot of times in the stories of these women 219 00:15:02,120 --> 00:15:04,760 Speaker 1: that we talk about on female First about how they 220 00:15:04,760 --> 00:15:10,600 Speaker 1: travel overseas and seem to be truly invigorated by obviously 221 00:15:10,640 --> 00:15:11,800 Speaker 1: have to put in a lot of work to get 222 00:15:11,800 --> 00:15:14,760 Speaker 1: to the point where they are traveling internationally, and our 223 00:15:15,000 --> 00:15:19,560 Speaker 1: delegates of their causes, but also are clearly invigorated by 224 00:15:19,600 --> 00:15:22,720 Speaker 1: what they see overseas, whether that's like okay. They see 225 00:15:22,760 --> 00:15:26,200 Speaker 1: the different ways that women are being treated, They see 226 00:15:26,560 --> 00:15:30,120 Speaker 1: the different consciousnesses of the countries that they're going to 227 00:15:30,360 --> 00:15:34,800 Speaker 1: and how active people are involved in resistance movements. They 228 00:15:34,840 --> 00:15:37,200 Speaker 1: see the kind of tactics and strategies that people are 229 00:15:37,320 --> 00:15:41,760 Speaker 1: using overseas. And then they come back to the place 230 00:15:41,800 --> 00:15:44,800 Speaker 1: that they left and see what's happening there and have 231 00:15:44,880 --> 00:15:48,160 Speaker 1: a certain perspective on it now after they've done their 232 00:15:48,200 --> 00:15:51,640 Speaker 1: travels um and been to these conferences and and and 233 00:15:51,720 --> 00:15:55,280 Speaker 1: spoken with different people and met different people. And so 234 00:15:55,720 --> 00:16:00,120 Speaker 1: she comes back to South Africa and continues to do 235 00:16:00,320 --> 00:16:03,840 Speaker 1: her work, continues to put in work. On August ninth, 236 00:16:04,000 --> 00:16:09,440 Speaker 1: ninety six, big touch point or flashpoint in her history 237 00:16:09,920 --> 00:16:13,120 Speaker 1: in the resistance movement, she along with other women like 238 00:16:13,160 --> 00:16:18,360 Speaker 1: Helen Joseph, Sophie Williams and Raheema Musa, led a woman's 239 00:16:18,400 --> 00:16:21,920 Speaker 1: Past march to the Union Buildings in Pretoria, and actually 240 00:16:22,160 --> 00:16:25,200 Speaker 1: August nine, to this day in South Africa is celebrated 241 00:16:25,240 --> 00:16:29,200 Speaker 1: as National Women's Day. So the government was planning to 242 00:16:29,320 --> 00:16:33,440 Speaker 1: extend pass laws to African women. Black men were already 243 00:16:33,480 --> 00:16:37,960 Speaker 1: required to carry passes and these pass laws require African 244 00:16:37,960 --> 00:16:41,120 Speaker 1: men to carry documents validating their identity and permissions. In 245 00:16:41,160 --> 00:16:44,200 Speaker 1: the way that that looked did morph over tome to 246 00:16:44,240 --> 00:16:46,080 Speaker 1: where there were all these documents and there was a 247 00:16:46,120 --> 00:16:50,040 Speaker 1: past book, So exactly how that panned out did change. 248 00:16:50,320 --> 00:16:52,440 Speaker 1: But at the end of the day, they were required 249 00:16:52,480 --> 00:16:55,760 Speaker 1: to carry documents that validated their identity where they were 250 00:16:55,800 --> 00:17:03,520 Speaker 1: allowed to be. So this really infantilizing, eternalistic, patriarchal method 251 00:17:03,560 --> 00:17:06,920 Speaker 1: of control over where people could be and even who 252 00:17:06,960 --> 00:17:10,360 Speaker 1: they were. You know, they were designed to control their 253 00:17:10,400 --> 00:17:15,520 Speaker 1: movement and to reinforce segregation. Many people were arrested for 254 00:17:15,640 --> 00:17:19,119 Speaker 1: violating past laws out of necessity. I mean, of course 255 00:17:19,240 --> 00:17:22,480 Speaker 1: this having to have pass laws disrupted their lives in 256 00:17:22,520 --> 00:17:25,120 Speaker 1: many ways, including where they could work, how they could work, 257 00:17:25,160 --> 00:17:27,360 Speaker 1: the time that they could spend, or how they were 258 00:17:27,400 --> 00:17:30,000 Speaker 1: able to spend time with their family. But early attempts 259 00:17:30,000 --> 00:17:34,000 Speaker 1: to make women carry pass books resulted in protests. Women 260 00:17:34,000 --> 00:17:37,960 Speaker 1: were like, nah, we're good, we're not We're not here 261 00:17:38,040 --> 00:17:41,600 Speaker 1: for having pass laws. So they were able to through 262 00:17:41,600 --> 00:17:46,120 Speaker 1: their actions, avoid having to be subject to these laws 263 00:17:46,520 --> 00:17:50,840 Speaker 1: for a while, but it was clear that the government 264 00:17:50,920 --> 00:17:54,199 Speaker 1: planned on still extending past laws to them still in 265 00:17:54,240 --> 00:18:00,280 Speaker 1: the nineteen fifties, so like they put in legislation and 266 00:18:00,359 --> 00:18:02,879 Speaker 1: we do plan on extending these past laws. That's how 267 00:18:02,920 --> 00:18:06,680 Speaker 1: clear it was to women. So in the nineteen protests 268 00:18:06,720 --> 00:18:11,280 Speaker 1: they were estimated to be around twenty th women. They 269 00:18:11,440 --> 00:18:14,479 Speaker 1: carried a bunch of petitions to and that was across racist. 270 00:18:15,359 --> 00:18:17,280 Speaker 1: So they carried a bunch of petitions to present to 271 00:18:17,320 --> 00:18:20,840 Speaker 1: the government and going knocked on the Prime Minister's door 272 00:18:21,080 --> 00:18:26,359 Speaker 1: to give them to him. And this wasn't This was 273 00:18:26,520 --> 00:18:30,680 Speaker 1: a huge demonstration and an important one. But there were 274 00:18:30,720 --> 00:18:34,719 Speaker 1: also other anti past law demonstrations throughout the country and 275 00:18:34,800 --> 00:18:37,760 Speaker 1: rural places and in other cities, but they were they 276 00:18:37,760 --> 00:18:42,399 Speaker 1: were eventually subjected to pass laws. This n march on 277 00:18:42,440 --> 00:18:45,080 Speaker 1: August nine did do a lot too of lift women 278 00:18:45,240 --> 00:18:47,919 Speaker 1: like Goy who were participating in it and brought a 279 00:18:47,920 --> 00:18:50,960 Speaker 1: lot of visibility to the issue. So in December of 280 00:18:51,000 --> 00:18:54,960 Speaker 1: n s which is just months after the march, and 281 00:18:55,080 --> 00:18:57,560 Speaker 1: Going and other anti apart side activists were put on 282 00:18:57,640 --> 00:19:01,720 Speaker 1: trial for treason. The least arrested around one dred and 283 00:19:01,720 --> 00:19:04,960 Speaker 1: fifty six people who were charged with high treason, and 284 00:19:05,000 --> 00:19:07,280 Speaker 1: that included people from the A and C. The African 285 00:19:07,400 --> 00:19:12,560 Speaker 1: National Congress, Indian Congress, the Congress of Democrats, the Congress 286 00:19:12,560 --> 00:19:17,720 Speaker 1: of Trade Unions, and the Colored People's Organization. They were 287 00:19:17,880 --> 00:19:21,400 Speaker 1: accused of being active in the liberation movement and creating 288 00:19:21,400 --> 00:19:25,000 Speaker 1: a freedom Charter with the goal of establishing a communist state, 289 00:19:25,080 --> 00:19:31,119 Speaker 1: among other accusations. So as you would probably imagine, you know, 290 00:19:31,200 --> 00:19:34,120 Speaker 1: this lasted a while. The treason child lasted until nineteen 291 00:19:34,200 --> 00:19:38,160 Speaker 1: sixty one and Ngali was acquitted, But in nineteen sixty 292 00:19:38,280 --> 00:19:42,160 Speaker 1: she was arrested again under the state of emergency that 293 00:19:42,240 --> 00:19:47,440 Speaker 1: was declared after the Sharpville massacre, which was a massacre 294 00:19:47,480 --> 00:19:53,240 Speaker 1: where police killed people who were protesting past laws. And 295 00:19:53,359 --> 00:19:56,159 Speaker 1: she spent five months in prison, then some of that 296 00:19:56,240 --> 00:20:01,239 Speaker 1: time which she was in solitary confinement, and in the 297 00:20:01,280 --> 00:20:05,480 Speaker 1: next decades she was subject to more arrests and two 298 00:20:05,760 --> 00:20:10,600 Speaker 1: more bands. So you see in her story that chokehold, 299 00:20:10,640 --> 00:20:16,120 Speaker 1: like that tight grasp that was placed on her by 300 00:20:16,160 --> 00:20:19,080 Speaker 1: authorities in these last time of her life, after she 301 00:20:19,280 --> 00:20:26,720 Speaker 1: had this snowball of momentum up to her strong role 302 00:20:27,320 --> 00:20:30,239 Speaker 1: in the resistance movement, to the point where people like 303 00:20:30,320 --> 00:20:35,840 Speaker 1: Nelson Mandela were acknowledging her in public spaces and public speeches, 304 00:20:36,640 --> 00:20:39,760 Speaker 1: and of course there were plenty of people who also 305 00:20:40,040 --> 00:20:42,760 Speaker 1: were a part of the movement and who read and 306 00:20:42,960 --> 00:20:46,439 Speaker 1: who attended her speeches, who knew the role that she 307 00:20:46,520 --> 00:20:50,000 Speaker 1: was playing and really speaking up against and taking action 308 00:20:50,040 --> 00:20:57,359 Speaker 1: against the aparthei legislation and state. So the story is 309 00:20:57,520 --> 00:21:02,119 Speaker 1: arrest after arrest, um kind of in ban at that point. 310 00:21:02,240 --> 00:21:05,399 Speaker 1: In October of nineteen sixty two, she was issued banning 311 00:21:05,480 --> 00:21:09,639 Speaker 1: orders that confined her to her home in Orlando Township. 312 00:21:11,119 --> 00:21:14,560 Speaker 1: Under the order, she couldn't attend public gatherings or meet 313 00:21:14,640 --> 00:21:16,560 Speaker 1: with more than one person at a time, and that 314 00:21:16,680 --> 00:21:21,160 Speaker 1: included other band people. She couldn't converse with them. That 315 00:21:21,240 --> 00:21:25,320 Speaker 1: band lasted five years, but then was renewed for another 316 00:21:25,400 --> 00:21:28,800 Speaker 1: five years in nineteen sixty seven, and there was a 317 00:21:28,840 --> 00:21:31,159 Speaker 1: brief period when she did travel after that, but that 318 00:21:31,240 --> 00:21:33,679 Speaker 1: was rolled back pretty quickly because she was still on 319 00:21:34,600 --> 00:21:38,359 Speaker 1: her soapbox, as she rightfully was, and of course she 320 00:21:38,359 --> 00:21:41,280 Speaker 1: continued to do when she had that brief period of freedom, 321 00:21:41,400 --> 00:21:45,440 Speaker 1: but the band was reimposed in nineteen seventy five, and 322 00:21:45,680 --> 00:21:49,639 Speaker 1: that rolled into her death. Unfortunately, she did die on 323 00:21:49,760 --> 00:21:54,400 Speaker 1: March thirteenthight that which was not long before her five 324 00:21:54,480 --> 00:21:57,640 Speaker 1: year band was about to expire. So if you think 325 00:21:57,680 --> 00:22:01,440 Speaker 1: about we know that bay ends and confining people to 326 00:22:01,480 --> 00:22:06,000 Speaker 1: spaces is one power that the state uses in order 327 00:22:06,040 --> 00:22:10,159 Speaker 1: to keep people from being active in these resistant movements. 328 00:22:10,560 --> 00:22:13,840 Speaker 1: Of course, the band restricted her ability to work and 329 00:22:13,880 --> 00:22:16,280 Speaker 1: to make money, though she did try to make a 330 00:22:16,320 --> 00:22:20,360 Speaker 1: living sewing. Of course, that was difficult for her. Apparently, 331 00:22:20,400 --> 00:22:23,560 Speaker 1: she says that the police who were there would try 332 00:22:23,600 --> 00:22:27,360 Speaker 1: to or would intimidate customers when they would come by. 333 00:22:27,560 --> 00:22:29,720 Speaker 1: So there were some donations that were coming through, but 334 00:22:29,840 --> 00:22:34,080 Speaker 1: there were she wasn't the most well supported person. It 335 00:22:34,080 --> 00:22:37,639 Speaker 1: also restricted her ability to travel, of course, to participate 336 00:22:37,680 --> 00:22:42,160 Speaker 1: in political activities, and generally to live life freely. And 337 00:22:43,440 --> 00:22:50,720 Speaker 1: the access that other people had to her her speeches, 338 00:22:51,040 --> 00:22:53,040 Speaker 1: to her work, to her writing, to the thoughts and 339 00:22:53,119 --> 00:22:56,600 Speaker 1: ideas that she shared was also limited. So her life 340 00:22:56,640 --> 00:22:59,399 Speaker 1: was confined to this spot. But also other people were 341 00:22:59,440 --> 00:23:03,560 Speaker 1: confined because they were no longer able to access the 342 00:23:03,680 --> 00:23:06,639 Speaker 1: resources that she said has so freely given in the 343 00:23:06,720 --> 00:23:14,440 Speaker 1: years leading up to that, So that clearly severely impacted 344 00:23:14,840 --> 00:23:18,480 Speaker 1: her ability to do the work, um in turn impacting 345 00:23:18,480 --> 00:23:22,879 Speaker 1: the movement itself. So that is the women Enging story 346 00:23:23,359 --> 00:23:27,680 Speaker 1: part of the larger story. But there were a lot 347 00:23:27,720 --> 00:23:31,440 Speaker 1: of women who were clearly involved in the movement at 348 00:23:31,440 --> 00:23:36,240 Speaker 1: the time, and she did have a funeral um that 349 00:23:36,440 --> 00:23:39,600 Speaker 1: was well attended, but I didn't read there was a 350 00:23:39,640 --> 00:23:42,119 Speaker 1: remark by someone who was speaking at the funeral that 351 00:23:42,240 --> 00:23:45,600 Speaker 1: like this should be even far more well attended if 352 00:23:45,600 --> 00:23:47,640 Speaker 1: you all knew the work that Enge was trying to do. 353 00:23:47,720 --> 00:23:50,200 Speaker 1: That she was trying to get us or the people 354 00:23:51,200 --> 00:23:54,320 Speaker 1: off of their seats and into action and really standing 355 00:23:54,359 --> 00:23:57,360 Speaker 1: up for what they believe in at whatever cost may 356 00:23:57,400 --> 00:24:01,640 Speaker 1: have been necessary. That costs, including um the meaning out 357 00:24:01,640 --> 00:24:06,280 Speaker 1: of violence against them and potentially even death. So she 358 00:24:07,720 --> 00:24:12,640 Speaker 1: was well respected and acknowledged in her lifetime, so as 359 00:24:12,760 --> 00:24:17,200 Speaker 1: unfortunately stories often go, could be more well acknowledged today, 360 00:24:18,080 --> 00:24:21,480 Speaker 1: and did have a memorial and has had a couple 361 00:24:21,520 --> 00:24:25,359 Speaker 1: of things named after her, so she has been acknowledged 362 00:24:25,440 --> 00:24:30,000 Speaker 1: in some ways. But UM, I'm grateful to be able 363 00:24:30,040 --> 00:24:33,719 Speaker 1: to share her story today in this way because of course, 364 00:24:34,000 --> 00:24:37,480 Speaker 1: as as we talked about all the time, it's always 365 00:24:37,480 --> 00:24:40,880 Speaker 1: helpful to continue to uplift stories that may be less 366 00:24:40,920 --> 00:24:57,720 Speaker 1: well known by by a lot of people. Well, I'll 367 00:24:57,760 --> 00:25:01,440 Speaker 1: say I growing up in small town La j Georgia, 368 00:25:01,560 --> 00:25:04,760 Speaker 1: small town Georgia, had never even heard of the apartheid 369 00:25:05,040 --> 00:25:07,640 Speaker 1: until I started college, and even then I just pretended 370 00:25:07,680 --> 00:25:09,560 Speaker 1: I knew because everybody knew was a big like there's 371 00:25:09,600 --> 00:25:11,040 Speaker 1: so many of my friends that knew, and I was 372 00:25:11,080 --> 00:25:15,119 Speaker 1: just like, yeah, what, Yes, ilually know what's going on, 373 00:25:15,160 --> 00:25:18,000 Speaker 1: and went through and had to study for myself what 374 00:25:18,200 --> 00:25:20,720 Speaker 1: this was and what the movement was and and how 375 00:25:20,760 --> 00:25:22,960 Speaker 1: actually during arct to mind time in college, it was 376 00:25:22,960 --> 00:25:26,760 Speaker 1: still a pretty big conversation and in the injustices that 377 00:25:26,760 --> 00:25:30,120 Speaker 1: had happened during that time and the people who are affected, 378 00:25:30,359 --> 00:25:34,040 Speaker 1: like the conversation, the fact that it is. It took 379 00:25:34,080 --> 00:25:37,480 Speaker 1: me that long to understand the depth and so still 380 00:25:37,600 --> 00:25:41,440 Speaker 1: learning trying to learn about the people in this movement 381 00:25:41,520 --> 00:25:43,320 Speaker 1: and the and the warriors and the fighters and the 382 00:25:43,359 --> 00:25:46,680 Speaker 1: people who were leaders. It's still amazing that I'm like, yeah, 383 00:25:46,720 --> 00:25:50,120 Speaker 1: I had no idea this happened. I didn't know this conversation. 384 00:25:50,280 --> 00:25:53,040 Speaker 1: Like I know the broad scope and some specific stories 385 00:25:53,440 --> 00:25:57,000 Speaker 1: that's about it, but in the bigger scheme and pictures like, 386 00:25:57,119 --> 00:25:59,760 Speaker 1: oh my god, we have missed out on so much 387 00:25:59,760 --> 00:26:02,880 Speaker 1: conversation and the truth in the history and the amazing 388 00:26:02,920 --> 00:26:07,600 Speaker 1: people who really were the backbone of this movement, including 389 00:26:07,600 --> 00:26:09,560 Speaker 1: the fact, like the understanding of trying to figure out 390 00:26:09,600 --> 00:26:12,080 Speaker 1: what banning was, Like, I know the concept of banning, 391 00:26:12,480 --> 00:26:16,080 Speaker 1: but this was almost like torture, the stalking, the constant harassment, 392 00:26:16,320 --> 00:26:18,359 Speaker 1: making sure that she wasn't able to make money, making 393 00:26:18,359 --> 00:26:21,240 Speaker 1: sure that she wasn't able to see people. That level 394 00:26:21,359 --> 00:26:24,840 Speaker 1: of being harassed. This is this, Like, oh my god, again, 395 00:26:25,080 --> 00:26:26,680 Speaker 1: this is torture. I feel like it should be a 396 00:26:26,680 --> 00:26:29,080 Speaker 1: little to that this is a crime. This is a 397 00:26:29,119 --> 00:26:32,320 Speaker 1: crime against humanity. Let's have a conversation about why this 398 00:26:32,840 --> 00:26:35,560 Speaker 1: is so important, about the fact that they stripped her 399 00:26:35,560 --> 00:26:39,840 Speaker 1: of her livelihood consistently, Like it wasn't just it's almost over. 400 00:26:39,960 --> 00:26:41,359 Speaker 1: We're going to do a new thing. Now, let's just 401 00:26:41,400 --> 00:26:43,320 Speaker 1: let's find another way to make sure you're banned, because 402 00:26:43,320 --> 00:26:46,359 Speaker 1: it's working, because we're killing your spirit essentially. Obviously, she 403 00:26:46,880 --> 00:26:49,359 Speaker 1: I'm glad her stories come out, and I'm glad we 404 00:26:49,400 --> 00:26:52,520 Speaker 1: get to see Thank you so much for bringing these 405 00:26:52,560 --> 00:26:56,560 Speaker 1: stories and these conversations in this historical context, because yeah, 406 00:26:56,640 --> 00:27:00,000 Speaker 1: it's so important that we're having a moment to acknowledge 407 00:27:00,119 --> 00:27:04,760 Speaker 1: Holy this has been in the dark too long. Yeah, 408 00:27:04,880 --> 00:27:07,639 Speaker 1: and I hate that it's such an inspiring story and 409 00:27:07,640 --> 00:27:10,959 Speaker 1: she did so much, um, and she fought so much 410 00:27:11,240 --> 00:27:14,159 Speaker 1: and just resisted so much. And then I hate that 411 00:27:14,600 --> 00:27:17,840 Speaker 1: access to what she did was limited and as you said, 412 00:27:17,920 --> 00:27:20,880 Speaker 1: especially if she's a good orator like that was lost 413 00:27:20,920 --> 00:27:23,840 Speaker 1: in a way or people weren't able to get that 414 00:27:23,920 --> 00:27:29,400 Speaker 1: information um, which is also part of yeah, this sort 415 00:27:29,440 --> 00:27:32,119 Speaker 1: of trying to minimize and make sure that like this 416 00:27:32,240 --> 00:27:35,720 Speaker 1: resistance doesn't go anywhere, but that that I just hate that. 417 00:27:35,920 --> 00:27:39,679 Speaker 1: So I'm I'm very glad that, yes, we're sharing the 418 00:27:39,680 --> 00:27:42,280 Speaker 1: story that you brought it to us, but it is 419 00:27:42,320 --> 00:27:47,720 Speaker 1: one of those things where I'm like, exactly, yeah, and 420 00:27:47,600 --> 00:27:49,280 Speaker 1: it and it that hit hard the way you said 421 00:27:49,280 --> 00:27:53,760 Speaker 1: that Samantha about it killing her spirit, because I think 422 00:27:53,800 --> 00:27:56,800 Speaker 1: we saw how much spirit she had through you know, 423 00:27:57,040 --> 00:27:59,360 Speaker 1: throughout her life um, and the work this who put 424 00:27:59,400 --> 00:28:06,359 Speaker 1: into it, um, and how this was intentional harm that 425 00:28:06,440 --> 00:28:11,119 Speaker 1: the state was committing against her, and how just doing 426 00:28:11,160 --> 00:28:14,320 Speaker 1: that to her, the killing her spirit as you put it, Samantha, 427 00:28:14,880 --> 00:28:21,919 Speaker 1: affected so many other people and even though they we 428 00:28:22,040 --> 00:28:28,600 Speaker 1: see how how Lillian Engoie in her quotes, really was 429 00:28:28,720 --> 00:28:32,840 Speaker 1: looking forward to a point where things changed and Aparthei 430 00:28:32,960 --> 00:28:36,399 Speaker 1: no longer had its hold on the country. She wasn't 431 00:28:36,440 --> 00:28:41,520 Speaker 1: able to see that transformation. That didn't occur until the 432 00:28:41,600 --> 00:28:47,040 Speaker 1: nineties by the time that she had died. So it 433 00:28:47,200 --> 00:28:50,880 Speaker 1: is very I hate to end on I think I'm 434 00:28:50,880 --> 00:28:52,880 Speaker 1: being so hesitant because I hate to end on a 435 00:28:52,920 --> 00:28:56,000 Speaker 1: point where, like you know, it is very it's very 436 00:28:56,000 --> 00:28:58,240 Speaker 1: real Samantha, that it is killing her spirit. But a 437 00:28:58,640 --> 00:29:00,360 Speaker 1: part a part of way, it really pays me to 438 00:29:00,400 --> 00:29:03,920 Speaker 1: say that because I don't want to not acknowledge the 439 00:29:03,960 --> 00:29:08,520 Speaker 1: fact that she lives such a full and beautiful life 440 00:29:08,560 --> 00:29:11,440 Speaker 1: in so many ways. You know, have family that she 441 00:29:11,560 --> 00:29:15,280 Speaker 1: was able to connect with, and they extended family that 442 00:29:15,360 --> 00:29:18,360 Speaker 1: I'm sure that she created through the movement work that 443 00:29:18,440 --> 00:29:21,600 Speaker 1: she did. I do hope that they do here that 444 00:29:21,680 --> 00:29:25,560 Speaker 1: we are celebrating the amazing work that she did um 445 00:29:25,600 --> 00:29:28,240 Speaker 1: and continue to do and obviously kept fighting when she could. 446 00:29:28,280 --> 00:29:30,560 Speaker 1: That's that's the biggest part to that is that when 447 00:29:30,600 --> 00:29:33,200 Speaker 1: she had that small break of not being banned, He's like, 448 00:29:33,600 --> 00:29:36,800 Speaker 1: let's keep going. I mean, that is a fighter in itself, 449 00:29:36,840 --> 00:29:39,600 Speaker 1: and in that conversation, because I know so many it 450 00:29:39,640 --> 00:29:42,920 Speaker 1: would just have backed down, but she didn't. She kept pushing, 451 00:29:42,960 --> 00:29:44,719 Speaker 1: She kept trying, but she was also trying to protect 452 00:29:45,200 --> 00:29:47,840 Speaker 1: her family and herself and during these times, during a 453 00:29:47,880 --> 00:29:51,800 Speaker 1: time where it was really really dangerous for her in them. 454 00:29:51,920 --> 00:29:54,600 Speaker 1: So it is it's definitely that level, I guess in 455 00:29:54,920 --> 00:29:57,000 Speaker 1: that moment of like day of the government sucks in 456 00:29:57,000 --> 00:30:02,360 Speaker 1: a story. Alright, I'm done getting it, I'm moving on 457 00:30:02,360 --> 00:30:09,800 Speaker 1: a list somewhere started it's creative. Sorry to tell you, 458 00:30:11,880 --> 00:30:16,960 Speaker 1: I'm gonna go hide now. Oh well, I did like that. 459 00:30:17,800 --> 00:30:19,440 Speaker 1: I hadn't really thought about it, but I did like 460 00:30:19,480 --> 00:30:21,840 Speaker 1: that you included eaves that a lot of these female 461 00:30:21,840 --> 00:30:25,400 Speaker 1: firsts to include travel and kind of changing your perspective 462 00:30:25,400 --> 00:30:28,880 Speaker 1: through travel. So that's, you know, some somewhat of a 463 00:30:28,920 --> 00:30:32,600 Speaker 1: more upbeat note to end on because that, I mean, 464 00:30:33,160 --> 00:30:37,920 Speaker 1: you're right, it's true, and I think that's very since 465 00:30:37,920 --> 00:30:39,800 Speaker 1: you just got back on this trip. That's one of 466 00:30:39,800 --> 00:30:41,560 Speaker 1: my favorite things about travel, too, is when you come 467 00:30:41,600 --> 00:30:43,040 Speaker 1: back and you're like, oh, I have all these things 468 00:30:43,080 --> 00:30:46,239 Speaker 1: to think about and reevaluate all of that stuff. So 469 00:30:46,360 --> 00:30:48,040 Speaker 1: I'm glad you pointed that out. I hadn't really picked 470 00:30:48,080 --> 00:30:51,440 Speaker 1: up on that, but you're right, you yeah, I just 471 00:30:51,560 --> 00:30:53,920 Speaker 1: I'm sorry. This is one of those moments. So for 472 00:30:53,960 --> 00:30:57,000 Speaker 1: everybody listening. I was talking to Samanthan Annie before they 473 00:30:57,040 --> 00:31:01,680 Speaker 1: started about how about how I get too deep when 474 00:31:01,680 --> 00:31:04,520 Speaker 1: I'm telling people about somewhere I've been to, like, I 475 00:31:04,520 --> 00:31:07,040 Speaker 1: immediately jump into the deep side of the conversations and 476 00:31:07,160 --> 00:31:11,160 Speaker 1: sometimes try to have to skip over the surface level stuff. 477 00:31:11,160 --> 00:31:13,520 Speaker 1: And that might be a bit much for some people 478 00:31:13,560 --> 00:31:16,760 Speaker 1: who aren't expecting that and who don't want that. UM. 479 00:31:16,800 --> 00:31:19,000 Speaker 1: So I was trying to temper myself with my response 480 00:31:19,040 --> 00:31:21,920 Speaker 1: to that, Annie, but it did. It did made me 481 00:31:21,960 --> 00:31:25,000 Speaker 1: think of somebody I was just talking to who asked 482 00:31:25,040 --> 00:31:27,360 Speaker 1: me like, how's the Eaves today? Who was here now 483 00:31:27,400 --> 00:31:32,959 Speaker 1: different than the Eaves who left? And UM was at 484 00:31:32,960 --> 00:31:35,920 Speaker 1: the airport the day you left. And I was like, uh, 485 00:31:37,280 --> 00:31:39,800 Speaker 1: I know, and you know that's what I was like, 486 00:31:39,880 --> 00:31:42,760 Speaker 1: I have one million things to say about that, but 487 00:31:42,840 --> 00:31:45,640 Speaker 1: also I have no idea how to answer that question. 488 00:31:46,520 --> 00:31:49,680 Speaker 1: So that's what, um, what you just said just now, 489 00:31:49,720 --> 00:31:51,440 Speaker 1: Annie made me think of. And I was like, let me, 490 00:31:51,960 --> 00:31:53,800 Speaker 1: let me roll it back on that a little bit. 491 00:31:53,880 --> 00:31:56,440 Speaker 1: But it's a really good point to think about, UM 492 00:31:56,440 --> 00:31:59,960 Speaker 1: when we're thinking about these female first like the even 493 00:32:00,080 --> 00:32:04,360 Speaker 1: if it's not travel, the moments that change the people 494 00:32:04,440 --> 00:32:06,840 Speaker 1: who were talking about in the moments that change us, Like, 495 00:32:06,920 --> 00:32:13,640 Speaker 1: what are some of the things that really shake us 496 00:32:13,800 --> 00:32:18,880 Speaker 1: or invigorate us or make us think differently about something. 497 00:32:19,280 --> 00:32:21,920 Speaker 1: And that doesn't have to be a really big moment. 498 00:32:21,920 --> 00:32:24,560 Speaker 1: It doesn't have to be traveling halfway across the world either. 499 00:32:26,040 --> 00:32:29,080 Speaker 1: It can be something as simple as a conversation that 500 00:32:29,120 --> 00:32:32,200 Speaker 1: you have with somebody at a bar. So, yeah, I 501 00:32:32,240 --> 00:32:36,160 Speaker 1: really I really liked that, Annie. Yeah. Yeah, And I 502 00:32:36,160 --> 00:32:40,920 Speaker 1: think that's a good follow up point as well. And 503 00:32:40,920 --> 00:32:43,040 Speaker 1: now I do want to hear the answer later of 504 00:32:43,120 --> 00:32:45,640 Speaker 1: that question that they asked you, so, but we'll we'll 505 00:32:45,680 --> 00:32:50,360 Speaker 1: put a pin in that, okay, Yes, and thanks once 506 00:32:50,400 --> 00:32:53,600 Speaker 1: again for coming on. We know you're a little still 507 00:32:53,600 --> 00:32:58,280 Speaker 1: recovering from your travel, so we really are happy to 508 00:32:58,280 --> 00:33:01,080 Speaker 1: be here as always, Yes, us and we love having you. 509 00:33:01,600 --> 00:33:04,240 Speaker 1: Can you tell the good listeners where they can find you. Yes, 510 00:33:04,600 --> 00:33:07,800 Speaker 1: you can find me online on the internets, on Instagram 511 00:33:07,840 --> 00:33:12,920 Speaker 1: at not Apologizing and on Twitter at Eve's Jeff Coach. 512 00:33:14,000 --> 00:33:16,040 Speaker 1: And I realized that I don't ever spell that and 513 00:33:16,080 --> 00:33:17,880 Speaker 1: that people may not know how to spell it. So 514 00:33:17,920 --> 00:33:22,920 Speaker 1: that's why V E S J E F F C 515 00:33:23,160 --> 00:33:26,160 Speaker 1: O A T. That's how you spell my name, UM, 516 00:33:26,160 --> 00:33:29,160 Speaker 1: and you can also find me Jeff dot com, so 517 00:33:29,160 --> 00:33:30,680 Speaker 1: you can go to my website to find all those 518 00:33:30,680 --> 00:33:32,960 Speaker 1: things if you forget or have no idea how to 519 00:33:32,960 --> 00:33:34,440 Speaker 1: spell my name after I just spelled it and you 520 00:33:34,440 --> 00:33:38,320 Speaker 1: don't want to rewind the fifteen seconds um. And also 521 00:33:38,560 --> 00:33:42,280 Speaker 1: on plenty of episodes of sminth te on doing other 522 00:33:42,400 --> 00:33:45,720 Speaker 1: segments of Female First about a bunch of different women 523 00:33:45,840 --> 00:33:50,680 Speaker 1: in history who change things, who lived phenomenal lives, and 524 00:33:50,720 --> 00:33:56,200 Speaker 1: who had stories that I I think are worthy of 525 00:33:56,240 --> 00:33:58,960 Speaker 1: sharing and that we all have things to learn from. Yes, 526 00:33:59,120 --> 00:34:02,800 Speaker 1: I agree, agree, So listeners go check out all of 527 00:34:02,800 --> 00:34:05,760 Speaker 1: those things you just listed. You can do the fifteen back. 528 00:34:05,800 --> 00:34:10,279 Speaker 1: It's easy if you need to, and if you would 529 00:34:10,320 --> 00:34:12,960 Speaker 1: like to contact us, you can our email Stuff Idea 530 00:34:13,000 --> 00:34:15,000 Speaker 1: mom stuff at iHeart media dot com. You can find 531 00:34:15,040 --> 00:34:17,080 Speaker 1: us on Twitter at mom sub podcast or on Instagram 532 00:34:17,080 --> 00:34:18,920 Speaker 1: and stuff I've Never Told You. Thanks as always start 533 00:34:19,000 --> 00:34:21,840 Speaker 1: super producer Christie Off, thank you and thanks to you 534 00:34:21,880 --> 00:34:24,399 Speaker 1: for listening. Stuff Diver Told the production by Heart Radio 535 00:34:24,400 --> 00:34:26,120 Speaker 1: from podcast in my Heart Radio. You can check out 536 00:34:26,120 --> 00:34:28,080 Speaker 1: the heart radio app, Apple podcast, or wherever you listen 537 00:34:28,120 --> 00:34:29,000 Speaker 1: to your favorite shows.