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Speaker 1: Hello, and welcome to another edition of the Ad Thoughts Podcast.

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Speaker 1: I'm Tracy Alloway and I'm Joe Eisenthal. Joe, you know what,

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Speaker 1: my favorite All Thoughts podcasts are definitely all the ones

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Speaker 1: we've done about poker and gambling, right, Yeah, poker and

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Speaker 1: chess episodes, those are my absolute favorites. No, my favorite

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Speaker 1: episodes are actually when we talk to people are fellow

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Speaker 1: colleagues at Bloomberg. I agree. I love those episodes and

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Speaker 1: not to sort of speak about how great things are

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Speaker 1: Bloomberg and how great it is here and how great

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Speaker 1: our colleagues are, but it is really remarkable the wide

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Speaker 1: range of backgrounds that people have. Whether we're talking to

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Speaker 1: our colleague who is a cattle farmer or former traders

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Speaker 1: or whatever it is, or the guy who uh is

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Speaker 1: the father of the beige book, it's always interesting. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: it's a large organization. There's a wide range of experiences,

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Speaker 1: and it seems like a lot of people have very

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Speaker 1: interesting backstories, and we've had some of them on as

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Speaker 1: you just mentioned. But I think I've found the Bloomberg

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Speaker 1: reporter with the most interesting background. Ever. This is going

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Speaker 1: to have to be pretty impressive to be the cow farmer.

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Speaker 1: But I guess cow is our commodity, so I guess

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Speaker 1: maybe it does fit in with the Bloomberg bread and

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Speaker 1: butter coverage. Okay, so what is the background of the

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Speaker 1: person we are talking to today? Okay, So our guest

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Speaker 1: for today is Eddie van der Vault. He is a

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Speaker 1: medals reporter for US in London, but before he was

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Speaker 1: covering all things metal, he was actually a paparazzi or

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Speaker 1: I guess I should say paparazzo singular. I am very

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Speaker 1: excited about this. First of all, I'm a big fan

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Speaker 1: of Eddie's medals coverage. I love what he talks about

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Speaker 1: gold because all the crazies are in that market. But

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Speaker 1: I feel like a the paparazzi is one of these

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Speaker 1: things that's ubiquitous in modern life, and we basically know

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Speaker 1: nothing about how the business works. And I imagine there's

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Speaker 1: a lot of interesting lessons we'll learn about risk taking

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Speaker 1: and risk management and all this, and maybe even also

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Speaker 1: digital rights management and intellectual property. So I'm excited about

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Speaker 1: this episode. Okay, Well, we have a lot to cover

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Speaker 1: in twenty or thirty minutes then. I mean. The great

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Speaker 1: thing about Eddie is that He also looks at the

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Speaker 1: paparazzi business model from an economics perspective. I've spoken to

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Speaker 1: him a little bit about it before, so I think

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Speaker 1: you're really going to enjoy this discussion. Bloomberg's Eddie Vanderwalt,

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Speaker 1: thanks so much for joining us. Tracy, Hi, thank you.

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Speaker 1: I guess the obvious question to begin with is how

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Speaker 1: you got into the business of being a paparazzo in

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Speaker 1: the first place. Yeah, I mean, I stopped off as

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Speaker 1: a student photographer. The dream was to go photograph elephants

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Speaker 1: in the serengetti, and you know, nobody told me that

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Speaker 1: that people don't pay for pictures of wildlife. And so

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Speaker 1: when I came over to the UK, I kind of

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Speaker 1: I wanted to work in news, and I had a

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Speaker 1: few interviews in the industry, and to be honest, I

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Speaker 1: turned the first time I interviewed it at the company

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Speaker 1: that I worked for, which was called Big Pictures, which

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Speaker 1: one of the biggest agencies at the time. They've gone

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Speaker 1: under since, but I interviewed there and I had no

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Speaker 1: idea what these guys did. So I walked into the

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Speaker 1: office and everywhere is just pictures of you know, I

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Speaker 1: don't know people in compromising positions, and you could just

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Speaker 1: you just got that got the image immediately that that

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Speaker 1: this was this was their business. Their business was was peparazzi.

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Speaker 1: And so I was a student when Diana died, and

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Speaker 1: I remember saying to myself, the one job that I

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Speaker 1: would never do in my life, it works a peparazzi photographer.

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Speaker 1: But I got interviewed by a by a South African

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Speaker 1: guy and he offered me the job, and the first

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Speaker 1: time I turned it down, and then a few other

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Speaker 1: things that I tried didn't come off. So he came

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Speaker 1: back to me about a month later and said, look,

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Speaker 1: the guy that we hired at that time didn't work out,

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Speaker 1: but you know, are you up for it? Um? And

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Speaker 1: then the second time around, I took it. And it

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Speaker 1: just kind of sucks you in, the world sucks you

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Speaker 1: in because the better you get it, the more you

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Speaker 1: the more you know, the characters that work in it,

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Speaker 1: and the backstories and so on. The more you get

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Speaker 1: to know it, as in any industry, the more you

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Speaker 1: become worth. And so it was much easier to get

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Speaker 1: into it than it was to get out of it,

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Speaker 1: to be honest, Eddie, A real quick question that I'm

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Speaker 1: curious about. Are the ranks of the paparazzi filled with

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Speaker 1: people who once aspired to what maybe other people would

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Speaker 1: use more noble ambitions like photographing wildlife for people who

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Speaker 1: thought they were gonna be war photographers and things like that. No,

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Speaker 1: not really, you don't. You don't see a lot of

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Speaker 1: serious photographer. You see some serious photographers that that that

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Speaker 1: go into that industry, but the photographic skill set that

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Speaker 1: you need isn't as high as it used to be.

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Speaker 1: I think in the old days when we were shooting

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Speaker 1: on film and people were developing canisters of film in

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Speaker 1: the back of the boots of their cars and that

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Speaker 1: sort of thing, that was different. But nowadays with digital

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Speaker 1: photography and you see the image immediately after you took it.

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Speaker 1: And also the way that you operate, you're you're you're

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Speaker 1: setting up for a specific shot and you take it

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Speaker 1: over and over and over again, particularly at night, so

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Speaker 1: I worked at nights. The guys who work daytime, they're

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Speaker 1: a completely different breed. And the daytime guys they set

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Speaker 1: up with long lenses, they hide in the bushes and

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Speaker 1: so on. Right, the guys who work nighttime, you would

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Speaker 1: have seen them outside of you know, Joe, I'm sure

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Speaker 1: you go to these kind of, you know, posh restaurants

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Speaker 1: in New York. Tracy, I'm sure you do too, but

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Speaker 1: actually right, but it's a joke, but it might be.

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Speaker 1: But I think that these kind of restaurants are more

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Speaker 1: prevalent and you get more of celebrities hanging out in

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Speaker 1: New York. So you would see these guys on the

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Speaker 1: pavement and they'd have flash guns and it would be

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Speaker 1: a pack of guys standing together and they're try and

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Speaker 1: get close in. So to answer you a question, no,

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Speaker 1: it's not really. The skill sets not photographic. The skill

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Speaker 1: set is knowing who's famous, knowing who's hot. How how

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Speaker 1: can you going to sell it? What are people's car

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Speaker 1: registration numbers? Right? Those kind of things. That's what you

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Speaker 1: want to know, and that's what makes or breaks a path.

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Speaker 1: So walk us through the business model. Then you're going

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Speaker 1: out at night, You're sending yourself outside, Um, I don't know,

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Speaker 1: Chipriyani's or something in well, I guess this would be London,

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Speaker 1: and you're waiting for famous people to come out, and

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Speaker 1: how do you actually make money and how do you

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Speaker 1: differentiate yourself from the other photographers who are standing there waiting. Right. So, Tracy,

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Speaker 1: I've met the two of you. You know you would

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Speaker 1: know I'm not six ft five and you know, in

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Speaker 1: that sort of scrum situation, you want to get to

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Speaker 1: the front, you want to push people out of the way,

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Speaker 1: and it's it's it's a bit of a rough and tumble.

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Speaker 1: I don't know if you if you watch rugby, it's

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Speaker 1: a bit like a rugby scrum, right, Um, you know

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Speaker 1: you're just you're just trying to get to the front,

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Speaker 1: trying to get the picture. And that was never going

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Speaker 1: to be my faulte. So that was never really what

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Speaker 1: I what I played too. But I think it's interesting

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Speaker 1: to talk about what gives a picture it's worth and

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Speaker 1: what makes it what makes a particular picture valuable because

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Speaker 1: there's a there's a lot of things that play. The

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Speaker 1: first one is how newsworthy the event is. Right, So

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Speaker 1: if we think about celebrities as characters, I almost think

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Speaker 1: of it is a bit like WWF because it's a

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Speaker 1: little bit made up, it's a little bit real, it's

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Speaker 1: a little bit and you've got to know, you know

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Speaker 1: what it is that that makes this particular person sellable? Right,

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Speaker 1: So you've got. So let's say we talk about the

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Speaker 1: British Royals. If they show up at a red carpet

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Speaker 1: event where they are opening, you know, a new theater

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Speaker 1: or you know, some sort of event that is characteristic

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Speaker 1: of what they would do, that is almost not worth

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Speaker 1: any money, and you almost won't. You might see it

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Speaker 1: in print tomorrow, but it's not going to sell for

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Speaker 1: a lot of money. Now, if they do something that

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Speaker 1: is out of character or something that they don't want

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Speaker 1: to be seen doing, those pictures are obviously worth a

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Speaker 1: lot more. So it's it's got that story you But

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Speaker 1: the real interesting bit I think is what makes the

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Speaker 1: pictures valuable is not whether it's not so much what

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Speaker 1: the picture is of, it's it's how many people get

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Speaker 1: the picture. It's the exclusivity. So the market structure is,

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Speaker 1: on the one hand, you've got let's say in London,

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Speaker 1: maybe fifty guys who are doing this right, and you've

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Speaker 1: got about six newspapers or so that would buy the

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Speaker 1: pictures tomorrow morning. So you've got an oligopsony buying the pictures.

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Speaker 1: And if you if you're fifty guys giving them the

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Speaker 1: same image, they have all of the market power, right,

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Speaker 1: they can buy from any one of you, and somebody

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Speaker 1: might have a slightly different angle or might have a

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Speaker 1: slightly better expression on the face, but essentially you're then

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Speaker 1: selling a commoditized product. If, however, you are the only

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Speaker 1: one who gets the picture, the power shifts completely because

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Speaker 1: then you're running the monopoly and you've got six buyers

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Speaker 1: who we're going to be competing by selling to a

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Speaker 1: mass audience tomorrow. So that's what you're going for. I

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Speaker 1: almost think of it like, you know, there's this debate

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Speaker 1: about diamonds and water. Why is why is diamonds more

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Speaker 1: valuable than than water? Well, it's about scarcity, and it's

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Speaker 1: exactly the same there, because if you can manufacture a

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Speaker 1: situation of scarcity, you've got a picture that sells for money.

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Speaker 1: So the way you the macro perspective through which you

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Speaker 1: describe the market is intuitive. A rare photo is better

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Speaker 1: than a normal photo, so it's celebrity doing something unusual

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Speaker 1: is more valuable if you're one of the only people

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Speaker 1: who has the photo, versus if the entire scrum is there,

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Speaker 1: that's more valuable, and so on. What is the precise

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Speaker 1: mechanism view which the sale is made because it's a

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Speaker 1: quasi auction process. You're describing how is the exact price

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Speaker 1: and deal set? As in most markets, there's there's a

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Speaker 1: conception that in the pepparazzi business that the photographers make

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Speaker 1: a lot of money. There are a handful of guys

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Speaker 1: do well and you know, lift slightly above I don't

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Speaker 1: know the national average, but it's not it's not a

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Speaker 1: business that will make make a lot of money year

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Speaker 1: in year out, not for the photographers anyway. The guys

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Speaker 1: who make money out of it are the agencies. And

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Speaker 1: so what you would do is you as a photographer

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Speaker 1: would usually have an agent. So my my day usually

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Speaker 1: ended at four am, So four am I would go

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Speaker 1: back home or three am somewhere around that, round about

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Speaker 1: the time that the club's closed. The nightclubs close and

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Speaker 1: people get kicked out. After that, I'll take my last pictures,

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Speaker 1: head on home and file it to my agent. And

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Speaker 1: the agent um you know, would represent Let's say again,

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Speaker 1: there are about five or so big agencies. The business

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Speaker 1: is consolidated a little bit. I think guys like Getty

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Speaker 1: and Rex and so one have bought up a lot

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Speaker 1: of a lot of other outlets. But basically they would

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Speaker 1: that's when your agent gets to work. Some guy would

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Speaker 1: go and in the pictures for you. He would just

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Speaker 1: crop it straight and so on, and caption it. And

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Speaker 1: if it's this kind of commoditized picture that everybody else

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Speaker 1: had it was a red carpet event, he would he

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Speaker 1: would just go, he would caption it up, and they

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Speaker 1: would send it out on a newswire essentially on a newswire,

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Speaker 1: and and the newspapers would would be able to look

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Speaker 1: at this, and then they would they would buy it

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Speaker 1: straight off there and and in fact they set the price.

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Speaker 1: And often you don't hear how much you're gonna get

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Speaker 1: paid for a picture until after it was after it

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Speaker 1: was in the publication, right, you have no bargaining power there.

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Speaker 1: But if you had exclusivity, the situation is obviously very different.

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Speaker 1: Then your agent would get to work. He would call

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Speaker 1: up the various news desks. He wouldn't necessarily in the

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Speaker 1: first instance, show them the pictures. He would just say, look,

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Speaker 1: we have this set of pictures. Are you interested? And

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Speaker 1: it's it's actually quite interesting how that pans out, because

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Speaker 1: sometimes now it can take a whole news cycle, right,

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Speaker 1: so so so they would hear early in the morning

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Speaker 1: what you had yesterday where you got last night, so

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Speaker 1: the pictures won't get to the newspaper until the following day.

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Speaker 1: In the interim, he's had a discussion with various news

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Speaker 1: desks saying, this is what we have. So so I've

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Speaker 1: often asked the question, why don't these guys just go

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Speaker 1: and published, you know, the news anyway? Say, look, you know,

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Speaker 1: ex celebrity got caught with a girl that he shouldn't

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Speaker 1: have been with, or with a guy who shouldn't have

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Speaker 1: been with or whatever. But the reason they don't is because,

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Speaker 1: if you're looking at it from a game theory perspective,

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Speaker 1: is because these are not one off games, right, So

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Speaker 1: that kind of forces it's the idea of honor amongst thieves.

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Speaker 1: If if we were going to play this game once

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Speaker 1: and these guys and you just kind of, you know,

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Speaker 1: had a one off picture that you're going to sell

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Speaker 1: to them, and they broke the news anyway, without you

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Speaker 1: selling the picture to them, they could, you know, they

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Speaker 1: could walk away and nothing's lost. But because I'm going

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Speaker 1: to keep bringing them new pictures, they won't cheat on

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Speaker 1: the game as it were. I love that we're talking

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Speaker 1: about game theory in the context of paparazzi. But any

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Speaker 1: you mentioned earlier this notion that a exclusive photo of

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Speaker 1: photo that no one else had would be worth more

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Speaker 1: than a commoditized one. In economics we talk all about

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Speaker 1: you know, supply and demand driving price. Was there, ever,

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Speaker 1: the temptation to create artificial scarcity for a photo? And

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Speaker 1: is that even possible? Right? Exactly, it does happen. So

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Speaker 1: the temptation is if if you're two photographers turning up

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Speaker 1: at the same you stumble on the same exclusive or

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Speaker 1: on the same picture. If you were to both sell

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Speaker 1: that picture and send it to separate agencies, we would

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Speaker 1: go from a picture that sells for tens of thousands

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Speaker 1: of pounds to a picture that sells for you know,

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Speaker 1: twenty thirty forty pounds tomorrow. So the temptation is always

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Speaker 1: to work together. And again it's because these are not

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Speaker 1: people that are that inherently trust one another. It's just

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Speaker 1: is it works in their favor by game theory, repeat

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Speaker 1: games and all of that stuff to file their pictures together,

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Speaker 1: and they often do. You will often see either the

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Speaker 1: two photographers would decide on their own two submit via

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Speaker 1: the same agency and split the money, or if they

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Speaker 1: don't have, if they don't both have relationship with the

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Speaker 1: same agency, for the agencies to sell the picture together.

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Speaker 1: I want to go back to something that you said

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Speaker 1: early on because I don't want to forget it. It

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Speaker 1: reminds me of a recent episode. We were talking to

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Speaker 1: Cameron christ here and he was talking about the scrum

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Speaker 1: in the Chicago trading pits and the importance of size

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Speaker 1: in that sort of jost and you mentioned in one

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Speaker 1: of your early answers that you're not all that tall.

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Speaker 1: I am curious about some of the other attributes of

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Speaker 1: really good paparazzi, the degree to which sort of physicality

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Speaker 1: really matters in either being big enough to push people

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Speaker 1: out of the way or small enough to slide through

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Speaker 1: crowds to get that perfect shot. Yeah. Absolutely. I listened

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Speaker 1: to that episode and it was It was one of

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Speaker 1: my favorites because because I remember while I was working,

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Speaker 1: I used to think this, what I do feels a

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Speaker 1: lot like that kind of business, right, and so definitely,

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Speaker 1: but more than being big, what matters is being able

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Speaker 1: to recognize faces at a distance, so good eyesight, but

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Speaker 1: also just knowing that the people the individuals very well,

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Speaker 1: so that that matters more because it's one thing to

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Speaker 1: push somebody out of the way, but it's a lot

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Speaker 1: easier to just be there first, right because the other guy,

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Speaker 1: you know, he may or may not be able to

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Speaker 1: push out of the way. So but I think I

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Speaker 1: think those are the key the key attributes. And for me,

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Speaker 1: what's why I always think that this wasn't such a

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Speaker 1: huge jump to wide of financial markets from the from

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Speaker 1: the Parati business is that it is about information and

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Speaker 1: it is all about knowing. So I talked about getting

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Speaker 1: to know the registration numbers for cars because I worked

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Speaker 1: with Kate Moss a lot and with Amy Winehous a lot,

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Speaker 1: not worked with, but you know, photographed Amy Winehouse and

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Speaker 1: Kate Moss a lot. And knowing where they live, knowing

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Speaker 1: what times they go out, knowing what cars they drive,

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Speaker 1: and getting to know the drivers, and getting to go

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Speaker 1: know the guys at the nightclub, and being willing to

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Speaker 1: pay for information and those sorts of things. I think

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Speaker 1: in this grum situation, it matters being big, and it

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Speaker 1: matters getting close up and so on, but you almost

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Speaker 1: want to win before you get there. That's funny. It's

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Speaker 1: it's almost like like being at an investment bank and

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Speaker 1: being able to see client flows and having that edge

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Speaker 1: in making your own trading decisions. I'm curious, you know,

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Speaker 1: we're talking about a business model that I imagine changed

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Speaker 1: quite a lot, maybe over the time that you were working,

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Speaker 1: but certainly then nowadays everyone has their own digital camera

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Speaker 1: via their phones, for instance, how has the business model

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Speaker 1: changed either while you were working um in it or

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Speaker 1: since then. I trained on film photography and I joined

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Speaker 1: when digital photography was just kind of you know, in

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Speaker 1: the early early two thousands, just this digital photography was

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Speaker 1: really taking off and was good enough to be used

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Speaker 1: at that level, and I think that that made it

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Speaker 1: that had a huge impact because it it really lowered

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Speaker 1: the h skill set that you that you had to

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Speaker 1: have to get into the industry. But but you're right,

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Speaker 1: it's not just that, it's it's it's the publication models

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Speaker 1: has changed completely. Once a picture has been placed on

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Speaker 1: a website, once it's gone and everybody else on the

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Speaker 1: web can tweet that picture they downloaded straight away, They don't,

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Speaker 1: you know, repeat sales have fallen off a cliff, and

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Speaker 1: it it has forced the industy to consolidate a lot,

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Speaker 1: you know, so you've you've seen a lot of agencies

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Speaker 1: either go under or sell out to the big guys

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Speaker 1: or so on. Yeah, definitely, the industry is is still

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Speaker 1: struggling to catch up with it. But that's made having

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Speaker 1: exclusivity even more important because you cannot bank on those

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Speaker 1: repeat sales. I know, in the old days, they were

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Speaker 1: the older guys, I used to think of their picture library,

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Speaker 1: you know, as their retirement policy, because the pictures would

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Speaker 1: keep paying. Like it's a lot like the like the

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Speaker 1: music industry, Your your backlog of of works will keep selling.

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Speaker 1: But nowadays that's just no longer the case. You just

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Speaker 1: don't see people coming back and buying those those old images. Eddie.

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Speaker 1: I don't know if it was a slip, but you

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Speaker 1: talked about working with Amy Winehouse and then you said, oh,

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Speaker 1: we didn't really work together. You took Now what I

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Speaker 1: meant was so, But I wondered when I heard that

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Speaker 1: about the symbiotic relationship between the paparazzi and a celebrities. So,

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Speaker 1: you know, the sort of cliche is that the celebrities

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Speaker 1: try to avoid the paparati, but obviously the paparazi are

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Speaker 1: key to bolstering their um, their celebrities. So I'm curious

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Speaker 1: about the degree to which you start to establish a

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Speaker 1: rapport relationship or with the people that you cover. Right, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: it's it's it's quite interesting, actually, I mean it is.

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Speaker 1: It's a bit like like wrestling or or a pantomime

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Speaker 1: was something where the pepparazzi play the villain, play the

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Speaker 1: bad guy. But but it is absolutely symbiotic, and very

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Speaker 1: often the information about where the celebrity is going to

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Speaker 1: be comes from the celebrity. Very often the celebrity that

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Speaker 1: would tip you off, right, and you kind of get

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Speaker 1: three kind of strata of people that you that you

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Speaker 1: deal with in the industry, and the guys at the

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Speaker 1: bottom will come out of a nightclub and they will

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Speaker 1: spot you and they will come over to you and

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Speaker 1: they will try and strike up a conversation and try

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Speaker 1: and get you to photo raft them. And that's fine,

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Speaker 1: and you'll do it, and you know, and you'll submit it.

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Speaker 1: You know, you're not going to sell a picture, but

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Speaker 1: they because they're building a brand, they are they will pose,

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Speaker 1: They will pose kisses for you. They will do anything

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Speaker 1: that you'd like them to do. If they then a

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Speaker 1: couple of years later, they've made it and people know

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Speaker 1: who they are, and and then they completely shun you.

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Speaker 1: They're almost a little bit nasty when they when they

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Speaker 1: when they're in front of you, because they want to

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Speaker 1: show that they do not need you, right. And then

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Speaker 1: the complete A listers, the Madonnas of this world and

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Speaker 1: so on, they're completely professional. They see it as a

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Speaker 1: part of their job. They will come out of the

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Speaker 1: other the night the nightclub or wherever it is, and

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Speaker 1: they will look straight down the camera at you, but

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Speaker 1: they won't engage with you. They won't do anything that

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Speaker 1: they weren't going to do anyway. They would just carry

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Speaker 1: on with their business, almost as if you weren't there.

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Speaker 1: But they're also they're also a lot more polite than you,

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Speaker 1: than than the than the the kind of mid tier.

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Speaker 1: It's it's really interesting to see to see how people's

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Speaker 1: reactions change with time. It's the smile right at the

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00:21:02,240 --> 00:21:05,760
Speaker 1: long end and the short end there's a positive interaction

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Speaker 1: and its belly of the curve where you have the

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Speaker 1: sort of right right right Eddie. I have to ask,

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Speaker 1: was there ever a photo that you took that you

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Speaker 1: felt guilty about for the do you know? For the

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Speaker 1: most part, no, so I kind of see it as

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Speaker 1: for the most part, most people sign up for this

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00:21:29,640 --> 00:21:34,880
Speaker 1: right and they actively seek fame. You know, there are

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Speaker 1: a lot of good places in London that you could

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Speaker 1: go out and have dinner and not be photographed by

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Speaker 1: the paparazzi. And there are a handful of places that

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Speaker 1: you know, you're definitely going to go and be photographed

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Speaker 1: if you if you come out, there's going to be

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Speaker 1: pops outside. So I always use the example of Sting

402
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Speaker 1: right Sting. You know, the musician, I never saw him

403
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Speaker 1: working in London all the time that I was here.

404
00:22:00,840 --> 00:22:04,840
Speaker 1: He never showed up anywhere, and yet if he wants publicity,

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00:22:05,440 --> 00:22:07,159
Speaker 1: you know, he could have it at a drop of

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Speaker 1: a hat. But there's one caveat There's two groups that

407
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Speaker 1: did make me queasy, So not so much an individual picture,

408
00:22:15,080 --> 00:22:18,080
Speaker 1: but two groups that I didn't like photographing, and that

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Speaker 1: is the children of of the famous and royalty, because

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Speaker 1: both of those groups have no choice, have no power

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Speaker 1: over this, They cannot walk away from this. The royalty

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Speaker 1: see this as a as a part of their job.

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Speaker 1: But I always felt sympathy because I thought, you know,

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Speaker 1: there's a lot of jobs that I in the world

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00:22:35,640 --> 00:22:37,840
Speaker 1: that I wouldn't do. And they've got one that they

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Speaker 1: cannot walk away from. For instance, Prince Harry, he doesn't

417
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Speaker 1: like being in front of the camera. It winds him

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00:22:45,520 --> 00:22:48,800
Speaker 1: up and you can see it. Okay, well, then let's

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Speaker 1: talk about the flip side. So what was your proudest

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Speaker 1: photograph or proudest moment in your paparat. Well we talked

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Speaker 1: about Amy winehows I loved spending time there and Amy

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Speaker 1: I don't think a lot of people know this, but

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Speaker 1: she used to work for a for an agency that

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00:23:05,119 --> 00:23:09,720
Speaker 1: sold pictures matrix. I think she did, and she knew

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Speaker 1: exactly how to play the game. So she had a boyfriend.

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Speaker 1: His name was Blake, and he was in prison for

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Speaker 1: a while, and she would come to the door to

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Speaker 1: greet you know, the neighborhood kids who bang on the door,

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Speaker 1: and she would she would turn up with a with

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00:23:26,240 --> 00:23:29,439
Speaker 1: a with a brooch or something in her hair that

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00:23:29,520 --> 00:23:31,720
Speaker 1: would show you know that that had Blake's name in

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00:23:31,720 --> 00:23:35,320
Speaker 1: it in a heart shape, something like that. Just visualizing

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00:23:36,240 --> 00:23:39,600
Speaker 1: a storyline. At one point, she was cleaning up her life,

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00:23:39,600 --> 00:23:42,800
Speaker 1: so she would come to the door with a with

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00:23:42,840 --> 00:23:46,040
Speaker 1: a vacuum cleaner, you know, throwing out an old vacuum cleaner,

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00:23:46,040 --> 00:23:48,879
Speaker 1: but it really visualized this idea of her trying to

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00:23:48,880 --> 00:23:51,560
Speaker 1: clean up her life. Um, you know, we all know

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00:23:51,600 --> 00:23:55,040
Speaker 1: how that ended, and it was very sad, but just

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00:23:55,119 --> 00:23:57,800
Speaker 1: the time spent out there, you felt a lot more

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00:23:57,840 --> 00:24:00,119
Speaker 1: like you were working with her. She was given a

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00:24:00,160 --> 00:24:03,480
Speaker 1: lot more back and she was incredibly good at it.

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00:24:04,280 --> 00:24:06,800
Speaker 1: So that's definitely some of the some of the stuff

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00:24:06,840 --> 00:24:10,040
Speaker 1: that I was proud of. Random aside here, remember how

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00:24:10,080 --> 00:24:13,160
Speaker 1: she in addition to her boyfriend named Blake, she had

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00:24:13,160 --> 00:24:16,040
Speaker 1: another guy friend who wasn't her boyfriend, who was also

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00:24:16,119 --> 00:24:20,280
Speaker 1: named Blake. Yeah, I went to high school with that Blake. Really,

447
00:24:20,320 --> 00:24:22,639
Speaker 1: he was a friend of my sister's in Vermont. So

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00:24:22,680 --> 00:24:25,600
Speaker 1: I randomly have a connection to one of the two Blake,

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00:24:26,680 --> 00:24:28,480
Speaker 1: well the other I mean I never saw. I never

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00:24:28,520 --> 00:24:30,600
Speaker 1: saw Blake. We called him Blake one and Blake two,

451
00:24:31,040 --> 00:24:33,199
Speaker 1: and never really met the first Blake, the one that

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00:24:33,240 --> 00:24:36,240
Speaker 1: was imprisoned. But but I met Blake two, and he

453
00:24:36,320 --> 00:24:38,760
Speaker 1: was he was a nice used to hang out at

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00:24:38,760 --> 00:24:42,399
Speaker 1: my house when I was a teenage. That's fantastic. But

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00:24:42,480 --> 00:24:44,640
Speaker 1: you know, I mean that whole crowd around her, they

456
00:24:44,680 --> 00:24:49,440
Speaker 1: were decent, down to earth people that happened to be famous.

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00:24:49,640 --> 00:24:52,440
Speaker 1: It was, it was, it was fantastic. All right, Well, Eddie,

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00:24:52,480 --> 00:24:55,720
Speaker 1: it's been really great to listen to your stories and

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00:24:55,800 --> 00:24:59,320
Speaker 1: learn a little bit about the business model of the paparazzi.

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00:24:59,400 --> 00:25:04,200
Speaker 1: That's Eddie undervaulved Bloomberg's Medals reporter. Thank you so much, guys,

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00:25:04,200 --> 00:25:17,879
Speaker 1: Thank you, Thanks Eddie. That was great. So Joe, I

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00:25:17,960 --> 00:25:21,280
Speaker 1: found that conversation really entertaining, and I'm now trying to

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00:25:21,320 --> 00:25:24,359
Speaker 1: think of ways that i can accessorize my outfits to

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00:25:24,840 --> 00:25:29,120
Speaker 1: visualize my personal storyline and got some paparazzi interested if

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00:25:29,119 --> 00:25:31,919
Speaker 1: anyone could pull that off. Tracy, I know that it's you.

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00:25:32,520 --> 00:25:36,679
Speaker 1: I feel like that conversation as well. And I guess

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00:25:36,760 --> 00:25:40,200
Speaker 1: I would say every story or every career or whatever,

468
00:25:40,280 --> 00:25:44,879
Speaker 1: there's always some economics markets parallel that you can draw, right.

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00:25:45,119 --> 00:25:47,720
Speaker 1: But I was actually I thought that the connection was

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00:25:48,080 --> 00:25:51,320
Speaker 1: more in depth than I even was expecting. Whether it

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00:25:51,480 --> 00:25:54,720
Speaker 1: was the auction slash market structure of how the photos

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00:25:54,720 --> 00:25:57,720
Speaker 1: are sold, whether it was the repeat game theory of

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00:25:57,760 --> 00:26:01,960
Speaker 1: the relationship between the agency and the producers, whether it

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00:26:02,080 --> 00:26:04,639
Speaker 1: was you know, as I put it, the smile in

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00:26:04,760 --> 00:26:06,720
Speaker 1: terms of where on the curve and who's nice to you.

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00:26:06,880 --> 00:26:11,160
Speaker 1: There's just a lot of really interesting lessons there. Mm hmm. Yeah,

477
00:26:11,200 --> 00:26:13,639
Speaker 1: the smile was a good analogy. I like that. It

478
00:26:13,800 --> 00:26:17,040
Speaker 1: is a really fascinating dynamic because you think of paparazzi,

479
00:26:17,080 --> 00:26:21,240
Speaker 1: they're these really competitive guys. Obviously the business is really competitive,

480
00:26:21,320 --> 00:26:25,960
Speaker 1: really intense. But even there you can find instances of

481
00:26:26,080 --> 00:26:31,240
Speaker 1: economic cooperation. So maybe that proves uh that, um, some

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00:26:31,320 --> 00:26:34,680
Speaker 1: economic models work. I guess there is hope after all.

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00:26:35,600 --> 00:26:38,920
Speaker 1: That's right, Okay, Well, on that happy note, this has

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00:26:38,960 --> 00:26:42,359
Speaker 1: been another episode of the Odd Thoughts podcast. I'm Tracy

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00:26:42,359 --> 00:26:45,040
Speaker 1: Alloway and you can follow me on Twitter at Tracy

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00:26:45,080 --> 00:26:47,840
Speaker 1: Alloway and I'm Joe Wisn't all. You could follow me

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00:26:47,880 --> 00:26:50,840
Speaker 1: on Twitter at the Stalwart, and you can follow Eddie

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00:26:50,920 --> 00:26:55,080
Speaker 1: on Twitter at ed Vanderwald. And you should follow our

489
00:26:55,119 --> 00:26:59,080
Speaker 1: producer to foror Foreheads at foreheads T, as well as

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00:26:59,119 --> 00:27:03,280
Speaker 1: the Bloomberg head of podcast, Francesco Levie at Francesca Today.

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Speaker 1: Thanks for listening.