1 00:00:03,040 --> 00:00:07,040 Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff to Blow Your Mind production of iHeartRadio. 2 00:00:12,960 --> 00:00:14,800 Speaker 2: Hey you welcome to Stuff to Blow Your Mind. My 3 00:00:14,880 --> 00:00:16,120 Speaker 2: name is Robert Lamb. 4 00:00:16,120 --> 00:00:18,560 Speaker 3: And I'm Joe McCormick, and we're back with part three 5 00:00:18,760 --> 00:00:23,360 Speaker 3: in our series on mud. Yes, mud, regular mud, wet soil, 6 00:00:23,520 --> 00:00:28,240 Speaker 3: especially of the clay and silt sized particle variety. So 7 00:00:28,320 --> 00:00:30,800 Speaker 3: in previous parts of the series we talked about what 8 00:00:30,920 --> 00:00:34,400 Speaker 3: mud is, what its physical properties are, the role it 9 00:00:34,560 --> 00:00:38,240 Speaker 3: played in the history of shaping Earth's continents, and how 10 00:00:38,280 --> 00:00:42,639 Speaker 3: life colonized those continents. We talked in the previous episode 11 00:00:42,680 --> 00:00:45,880 Speaker 3: about many animal behaviors that relate to mud. We talked 12 00:00:45,880 --> 00:00:49,400 Speaker 3: about pigs wallowing in mud, Arnold Schwarzenegger wallowing and mud. 13 00:00:50,080 --> 00:00:53,280 Speaker 3: We talked about mud skippers and other animals whose lives 14 00:00:53,320 --> 00:00:55,800 Speaker 3: involve mud in one way or another. But of course, 15 00:00:55,880 --> 00:00:59,640 Speaker 3: mud also plays a big role in human culture and 16 00:00:59,720 --> 00:01:05,200 Speaker 3: human technology, even in the building of many important human settlements. 17 00:01:05,560 --> 00:01:08,000 Speaker 3: So that's what we're going to focus on today. Mud, 18 00:01:08,120 --> 00:01:10,880 Speaker 3: especially as a building material for humans. 19 00:01:11,360 --> 00:01:14,800 Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, the mud brick, especially because you know, we 20 00:01:14,880 --> 00:01:17,680 Speaker 2: could build things out of mud, I guess without forming 21 00:01:17,760 --> 00:01:22,039 Speaker 2: some sort of a a brick or or or you know, 22 00:01:22,120 --> 00:01:24,520 Speaker 2: something to to stack, something to use, but it would 23 00:01:24,520 --> 00:01:27,800 Speaker 2: be messy, it wouldn't be very effective. And that's where 24 00:01:27,840 --> 00:01:30,840 Speaker 2: the mud brick comes into play here, and the ability 25 00:01:30,920 --> 00:01:34,360 Speaker 2: to turn mud into this thing that then then can 26 00:01:34,400 --> 00:01:37,520 Speaker 2: be mass produced and used to build a variety of things. 27 00:01:38,040 --> 00:01:41,760 Speaker 2: Brian M. Fagan features several chapters that touch on mud 28 00:01:41,760 --> 00:01:44,920 Speaker 2: bricks in the seventy Great Inventions of the Ancient World. 29 00:01:45,319 --> 00:01:48,640 Speaker 2: In a chapter on dwellings with Kate Spence, it's pointed 30 00:01:48,640 --> 00:01:51,640 Speaker 2: out that we we absolutely can't consider human dwellings and 31 00:01:51,680 --> 00:01:56,160 Speaker 2: the development and advancement of materials and techniques with also 32 00:01:56,280 --> 00:01:58,960 Speaker 2: taking into account the shape of human culture at a 33 00:01:59,000 --> 00:02:02,440 Speaker 2: given time and the environment in which they're constructed. 34 00:02:02,880 --> 00:02:06,520 Speaker 3: The series of episodes has repeatedly just forced me to 35 00:02:06,560 --> 00:02:10,240 Speaker 3: think about the interesting web of back and forth interactions 36 00:02:10,280 --> 00:02:16,560 Speaker 3: between inorganic geological conditions in certain places on Earth and 37 00:02:16,720 --> 00:02:19,480 Speaker 3: the life and culture that arises there. 38 00:02:20,200 --> 00:02:23,720 Speaker 2: That's right, that's right now. On that first count, that 39 00:02:23,840 --> 00:02:26,840 Speaker 2: idea of you know what, you know, where are people going? 40 00:02:26,919 --> 00:02:29,800 Speaker 2: Where are they living their lives? In ancient times? You know, 41 00:02:29,840 --> 00:02:32,040 Speaker 2: as we've discussed before, there are modes of life and 42 00:02:32,080 --> 00:02:35,320 Speaker 2: technology that makes sense if you're settled long term in 43 00:02:35,360 --> 00:02:38,760 Speaker 2: a single area. But other modes make more sense if 44 00:02:38,840 --> 00:02:42,200 Speaker 2: your nomadic or semi nomadic, as many of our global 45 00:02:42,240 --> 00:02:46,079 Speaker 2: ancestors were. So for nomadic peoples, it might make more 46 00:02:46,120 --> 00:02:49,320 Speaker 2: sense to depend for shelter on some manner of say 47 00:02:49,360 --> 00:02:53,680 Speaker 2: wood frame plus high tense scenario, or to depend on 48 00:02:53,919 --> 00:02:57,400 Speaker 2: very fixed, even naturally occurring shelters that you could take 49 00:02:57,440 --> 00:03:01,520 Speaker 2: advantage of periodically, such as caves. There's also room in 50 00:03:01,560 --> 00:03:05,000 Speaker 2: this for more permanent structures that seasonal settlements, places that 51 00:03:05,000 --> 00:03:08,400 Speaker 2: you're going to come back to again and again, you know, 52 00:03:08,800 --> 00:03:11,200 Speaker 2: when the seasons allow it, or the you know, crops, 53 00:03:11,240 --> 00:03:14,640 Speaker 2: movement of animals, whatever happens to be the case, and 54 00:03:14,680 --> 00:03:16,320 Speaker 2: then there are going to be you know, other modes 55 00:03:16,360 --> 00:03:19,320 Speaker 2: of temporary constructions that are going to make sense as well. 56 00:03:19,960 --> 00:03:23,280 Speaker 2: But the other main point is that of climate and environment. 57 00:03:23,680 --> 00:03:26,919 Speaker 2: What is possible in a given area from a local 58 00:03:26,960 --> 00:03:30,639 Speaker 2: material standpoint, would for example, makes an excellent material for 59 00:03:30,720 --> 00:03:33,480 Speaker 2: building in ancient times as well as in our own 60 00:03:33,520 --> 00:03:36,400 Speaker 2: modern world, But if it's harder to come by, if 61 00:03:36,440 --> 00:03:39,200 Speaker 2: it has to be imported, et cetera, then it may 62 00:03:39,240 --> 00:03:42,280 Speaker 2: make more sense to use it only for key roles, 63 00:03:42,360 --> 00:03:46,080 Speaker 2: such as for instance, framing and lean more heavily on 64 00:03:46,200 --> 00:03:48,720 Speaker 2: other materials that are easier to acquire. 65 00:03:49,040 --> 00:03:50,800 Speaker 3: Makes sense. Yeah. 66 00:03:51,000 --> 00:03:55,160 Speaker 2: Now, Spence does note in their chapter that the thing 67 00:03:55,160 --> 00:03:58,520 Speaker 2: about many ancient building supplies is that they simply don't 68 00:03:58,520 --> 00:04:02,120 Speaker 2: survive the passage of time. But we know our ancestors 69 00:04:02,240 --> 00:04:05,720 Speaker 2: used wood and even bones as tent structures between twenty 70 00:04:05,720 --> 00:04:09,880 Speaker 2: five and twelve thousand years ago in Eurasia at Jericho, 71 00:04:10,680 --> 00:04:13,080 Speaker 2: which this book site says at least at the time, 72 00:04:13,120 --> 00:04:16,920 Speaker 2: the earliest evidence of occupation there dated back to before 73 00:04:17,040 --> 00:04:21,040 Speaker 2: nine thousand BCE, and it seems that the earliest houses 74 00:04:21,080 --> 00:04:24,560 Speaker 2: there were built out of quote unquote clay lumps and 75 00:04:24,640 --> 00:04:28,120 Speaker 2: probably also made use of wooden building frames before they 76 00:04:28,160 --> 00:04:33,200 Speaker 2: transition to mud brick buildings. For first first circular in nature, 77 00:04:33,320 --> 00:04:36,640 Speaker 2: and then later they used rectangular designs with multiple rooms. 78 00:04:37,040 --> 00:04:38,560 Speaker 3: So tell me about mud bricks. 79 00:04:38,880 --> 00:04:42,920 Speaker 2: Okay, So mud bricks are pretty fascinating. I didn't expect 80 00:04:43,120 --> 00:04:46,800 Speaker 2: to get so into mud bricks, but this book and 81 00:04:46,839 --> 00:04:48,160 Speaker 2: then another one I'm going to refer to in a 82 00:04:48,200 --> 00:04:51,000 Speaker 2: bit really get into it and made me appreciate them. 83 00:04:51,400 --> 00:04:55,560 Speaker 2: So mud bricks are especially useful in arid environments because 84 00:04:55,680 --> 00:04:59,920 Speaker 2: mud bricks like other forms of solid masonry, are poor conductors. 85 00:05:00,160 --> 00:05:04,839 Speaker 2: Heat Thick walls of mud brick will slow the rate 86 00:05:04,960 --> 00:05:08,440 Speaker 2: at which the exterior solar heat is absorbed into the 87 00:05:08,480 --> 00:05:10,400 Speaker 2: interior environment. 88 00:05:10,920 --> 00:05:13,359 Speaker 3: So they're good insulators if you're living in say, a 89 00:05:13,400 --> 00:05:14,080 Speaker 3: hot desert. 90 00:05:14,560 --> 00:05:18,040 Speaker 2: Yeah. And additionally, structures like this, which are still common 91 00:05:18,040 --> 00:05:22,080 Speaker 2: throughout North Africa, the author notes here, often feature high 92 00:05:22,120 --> 00:05:25,599 Speaker 2: ceilings and small openings set high in the wall to 93 00:05:25,760 --> 00:05:29,360 Speaker 2: encourage airflow. Also flat roofs since there tends to be 94 00:05:29,440 --> 00:05:33,640 Speaker 2: less rainfall to contend with. So it's a design that 95 00:05:33,680 --> 00:05:35,560 Speaker 2: has stood the test of time. It's a building material 96 00:05:35,560 --> 00:05:38,359 Speaker 2: that has stood the test of time. Now, the thing is, 97 00:05:38,400 --> 00:05:41,480 Speaker 2: of course, all buildings in general require upkeep, no matter 98 00:05:41,520 --> 00:05:45,200 Speaker 2: what you're building in them. Out of modern buildings upkeep 99 00:05:45,240 --> 00:05:48,839 Speaker 2: as well. But of course mud brick buildings require regular 100 00:05:48,920 --> 00:05:53,640 Speaker 2: upkeep against erosion. That is specific to the nature of 101 00:05:53,720 --> 00:05:56,000 Speaker 2: mud bricks, and we'll get into that more in just 102 00:05:56,040 --> 00:05:59,080 Speaker 2: a bit as well. Now, in the seventy Great Inventions 103 00:05:59,080 --> 00:06:01,479 Speaker 2: of the Ancient World, later noted in a chapter with 104 00:06:01,880 --> 00:06:05,120 Speaker 2: Jeffrey P. Killen that mud bricks were also used in 105 00:06:05,160 --> 00:06:09,400 Speaker 2: the construction of furniture, such as among the poorer classes. 106 00:06:09,440 --> 00:06:13,400 Speaker 2: In ancient Egypt, wood and ivory were materials of the wealthy, 107 00:06:13,720 --> 00:06:17,440 Speaker 2: while mud brick platforms served as beds by night and 108 00:06:17,560 --> 00:06:19,479 Speaker 2: benches by day for common folk. 109 00:06:20,080 --> 00:06:22,960 Speaker 3: As a side note on the subject of ancient Egyptian beds, 110 00:06:23,000 --> 00:06:26,799 Speaker 3: if you've never seen ancient Egyptian the headrests, you should 111 00:06:26,839 --> 00:06:30,560 Speaker 3: look that up. Where instead of pillows, they would have 112 00:06:30,600 --> 00:06:33,680 Speaker 3: sort of a stand for your head to lie on, 113 00:06:34,279 --> 00:06:37,240 Speaker 3: like a rigid stand. I find that really interesting. 114 00:06:38,040 --> 00:06:40,680 Speaker 2: Yeah, didn't we discuss this in the Invention of the 115 00:06:40,680 --> 00:06:43,960 Speaker 2: Bad episode. Yeah, if memory serves, we talked about the 116 00:06:44,000 --> 00:06:46,400 Speaker 2: work of a researcher who was like recreating these and 117 00:06:46,440 --> 00:06:47,560 Speaker 2: testing them out. 118 00:06:48,080 --> 00:06:50,760 Speaker 3: Unfortunately, I don't remember what the conclusions of that were, 119 00:06:50,839 --> 00:06:54,159 Speaker 3: but yeah, very interesting. So imagine instead of a soft pillow, 120 00:06:54,240 --> 00:06:57,240 Speaker 3: you use like a little hard podium for your head 121 00:06:57,279 --> 00:06:57,719 Speaker 3: to lie on. 122 00:06:58,160 --> 00:07:01,040 Speaker 2: Now elsewhere in this book at it also points out 123 00:07:01,080 --> 00:07:04,440 Speaker 2: that extensive town walls appeared in the sixth and fifth 124 00:07:04,480 --> 00:07:08,880 Speaker 2: centuries BCE, often constructed of mud bricks, but with stone 125 00:07:08,960 --> 00:07:13,200 Speaker 2: facing and or rubble filling. An example of this would 126 00:07:13,240 --> 00:07:16,560 Speaker 2: be the long walls of classical Athens. These were destroyed 127 00:07:16,560 --> 00:07:19,600 Speaker 2: by the Roman general Sula during the first century BCE, 128 00:07:20,280 --> 00:07:22,840 Speaker 2: and they had been rebuilt even before that, So you know, 129 00:07:22,880 --> 00:07:27,160 Speaker 2: it's the nature of fortifications. And then also you know, 130 00:07:27,840 --> 00:07:29,440 Speaker 2: some of the part of it also is the nature 131 00:07:29,440 --> 00:07:31,880 Speaker 2: of mud bricks, which we'll come back to. By the 132 00:07:31,880 --> 00:07:34,880 Speaker 2: third century BCE, mud bricks were a common material in 133 00:07:34,920 --> 00:07:40,080 Speaker 2: the construction of walled cities among various Mediterranean civilizations, according 134 00:07:40,080 --> 00:07:45,160 Speaker 2: to Fagan. Now, one something that also comes up in 135 00:07:45,200 --> 00:07:49,400 Speaker 2: these chapters is that mud bricks would have also been 136 00:07:49,520 --> 00:07:53,440 Speaker 2: used in the construction of what was considered an antiquity, 137 00:07:53,480 --> 00:07:57,160 Speaker 2: one of the Seven Wonders of the ancient world, the 138 00:07:57,280 --> 00:08:01,000 Speaker 2: hanging Gardens of Babylon or the guard in terraces of 139 00:08:01,040 --> 00:08:06,200 Speaker 2: Babylon that are often attributed to the ruler Nebekinezer, who 140 00:08:06,240 --> 00:08:09,040 Speaker 2: lived six oh five through five sixty two BCE. 141 00:08:10,280 --> 00:08:13,840 Speaker 3: Now, when I was a kid, I had a little 142 00:08:13,840 --> 00:08:16,880 Speaker 3: booklet that I read a lot that was about the 143 00:08:16,920 --> 00:08:19,880 Speaker 3: seven wonders of the ancient world, and one of them 144 00:08:20,040 --> 00:08:22,960 Speaker 3: was the hanging gardens of Babylon. And I never understood 145 00:08:23,000 --> 00:08:24,960 Speaker 3: what the deal with the word hanging was. I was 146 00:08:25,000 --> 00:08:29,800 Speaker 3: imagining them like dangling from chains, but what were those 147 00:08:29,880 --> 00:08:32,320 Speaker 3: dangling from? I didn't get the hanging part. 148 00:08:32,679 --> 00:08:35,840 Speaker 2: Yeah, and it seems that a more accurate description would 149 00:08:35,840 --> 00:08:41,079 Speaker 2: be terrast. We're essentially talking about great terraced gardens. So 150 00:08:41,200 --> 00:08:42,880 Speaker 2: I wanted to get into this a little bit more 151 00:08:42,920 --> 00:08:44,840 Speaker 2: because you know, obviously, if something's being held up as 152 00:08:44,880 --> 00:08:48,079 Speaker 2: one of the wonders of the ages during this time 153 00:08:48,120 --> 00:08:50,280 Speaker 2: and it was made out of mud bricks, mud bricks 154 00:08:50,320 --> 00:08:53,000 Speaker 2: being something that you know, you might without knowing much 155 00:08:53,000 --> 00:08:54,440 Speaker 2: about it, you might just think, well, this is a 156 00:08:54,520 --> 00:08:59,280 Speaker 2: simplistic this is an old fashioned form of construction. Well, well, 157 00:08:59,360 --> 00:09:02,400 Speaker 2: let's look a little deeper. So I picked up a book. 158 00:09:02,440 --> 00:09:04,480 Speaker 2: This is a new book came out just this year 159 00:09:05,480 --> 00:09:09,520 Speaker 2: that we've actually been in discussions with having the author 160 00:09:09,640 --> 00:09:12,560 Speaker 2: on the show. Even it's such a neat looking volume. 161 00:09:12,800 --> 00:09:15,959 Speaker 2: It's titled The Seven Wonders of the Ancient World, Science, Engineering, 162 00:09:15,960 --> 00:09:20,040 Speaker 2: and Technology by Michael Dennis Higgins. It's a great book. 163 00:09:20,480 --> 00:09:23,840 Speaker 2: It looks at not only what's historically known and or 164 00:09:23,880 --> 00:09:27,160 Speaker 2: alleged regarding these wonders and how it ties into what 165 00:09:27,200 --> 00:09:29,560 Speaker 2: we know about the geology of the regions where these 166 00:09:29,840 --> 00:09:33,960 Speaker 2: wonders were located or thought to be located, but also 167 00:09:34,240 --> 00:09:38,240 Speaker 2: what recreation in the modern world might look like so, 168 00:09:38,320 --> 00:09:40,920 Speaker 2: Chapter three of the book deals with the Gardens of 169 00:09:40,960 --> 00:09:45,480 Speaker 2: Mesopotamia because while the traditional view Higgins rides is that 170 00:09:45,520 --> 00:09:48,719 Speaker 2: the gardens were set in the walled city of Babylon 171 00:09:48,960 --> 00:09:52,360 Speaker 2: and what is now central Iraq just south of Baghdad 172 00:09:52,679 --> 00:09:56,199 Speaker 2: during the sixth century BCE, there is also growing support 173 00:09:56,240 --> 00:09:58,720 Speaker 2: for the idea that they weren't located here at all, 174 00:09:58,800 --> 00:10:02,960 Speaker 2: but were in nineva during the seventh century BCE, in 175 00:10:03,080 --> 00:10:06,080 Speaker 2: what is now northern Iraq near Mosul Oh. 176 00:10:06,160 --> 00:10:08,480 Speaker 3: So that would make sense because then I would assume 177 00:10:08,520 --> 00:10:11,000 Speaker 3: that would mean they wouldn't be the gardens of Babylon 178 00:10:11,120 --> 00:10:14,400 Speaker 3: but of Assyria, right, because Ninevah was the capital of Assyria, 179 00:10:14,559 --> 00:10:16,600 Speaker 3: but still would have been between the rivers, still would 180 00:10:16,600 --> 00:10:17,559 Speaker 3: have been Mesopotamia. 181 00:10:18,040 --> 00:10:20,640 Speaker 2: Yeah. One thing that that Higgins stresses, and we have 182 00:10:20,640 --> 00:10:23,400 Speaker 2: to keep in mind with the Wonders of the Ancient World, 183 00:10:23,400 --> 00:10:25,840 Speaker 2: the Seven Wonders of the Ancient World, is that these 184 00:10:26,120 --> 00:10:31,560 Speaker 2: were the these this was like a list that was 185 00:10:31,679 --> 00:10:36,200 Speaker 2: that was put together in the Hellenistic world and the 186 00:10:36,280 --> 00:10:38,800 Speaker 2: concerning things that were often far away, and this is 187 00:10:38,880 --> 00:10:42,000 Speaker 2: especially the case. These were the this, these were the east. 188 00:10:42,040 --> 00:10:45,120 Speaker 2: This was the eastern most wonder on the list by 189 00:10:45,160 --> 00:10:48,240 Speaker 2: a considerable margin, and they it was so far away 190 00:10:48,280 --> 00:10:50,640 Speaker 2: that you could basically say whatever you wanted and it 191 00:10:50,679 --> 00:10:51,880 Speaker 2: would not be questioned. 192 00:10:52,240 --> 00:10:54,360 Speaker 3: I've often thought of the writings about these as kind 193 00:10:54,400 --> 00:10:57,200 Speaker 3: of the the Forbes travel Guide of the ancient Greeks, 194 00:10:58,559 --> 00:10:59,960 Speaker 3: but maybe with some shaky sword. 195 00:11:00,960 --> 00:11:03,520 Speaker 2: Yeah, because again, the idea of the Seven Wonders of 196 00:11:03,520 --> 00:11:07,880 Speaker 2: the Ancient World are basically a first century BCE creation, 197 00:11:08,120 --> 00:11:10,680 Speaker 2: and in this particular case, they're dealing with something from 198 00:11:10,720 --> 00:11:14,880 Speaker 2: the sixth or seventh century BCE. Higgins writes, quote, we 199 00:11:14,960 --> 00:11:19,439 Speaker 2: will never know definitively the where and when of the gardens, 200 00:11:19,760 --> 00:11:23,320 Speaker 2: and it is likely that more than one Mesopotamian ruler 201 00:11:23,400 --> 00:11:27,120 Speaker 2: had remarkable gardens that may have been conflated in stories 202 00:11:27,120 --> 00:11:32,079 Speaker 2: and accounts relayed to the far off Mediterranean world. Higgins 203 00:11:32,120 --> 00:11:35,880 Speaker 2: also adds this other great little addition. He says, quote, 204 00:11:35,960 --> 00:11:39,000 Speaker 2: we should perhaps be wary of imposing a modern view 205 00:11:39,080 --> 00:11:42,720 Speaker 2: of garden life. In one panel from the north palace 206 00:11:43,040 --> 00:11:46,840 Speaker 2: of Ashurbanipal, king of the Neo Assyrian Empire from six 207 00:11:46,960 --> 00:11:49,880 Speaker 2: sixty nine through six point thirty one BCE, the king 208 00:11:49,960 --> 00:11:53,000 Speaker 2: is taking refreshments while listening to music with his wife 209 00:11:53,320 --> 00:11:57,360 Speaker 2: Amid luxuriant trees, from one of which hangs the severed 210 00:11:57,400 --> 00:12:01,720 Speaker 2: head of an enemy. So I don't know quite what 211 00:12:01,760 --> 00:12:03,680 Speaker 2: to make of that, but fair enough. 212 00:12:03,640 --> 00:12:07,520 Speaker 3: Well, you like to celebrate your accomplishments, and that can 213 00:12:07,520 --> 00:12:08,400 Speaker 3: take many forms. 214 00:12:08,840 --> 00:12:13,240 Speaker 2: Yes, anyway, onto the bricks. So the role their role 215 00:12:13,280 --> 00:12:16,520 Speaker 2: in the construction of the gardens would would vary depending 216 00:12:16,559 --> 00:12:20,080 Speaker 2: on where exactly this garden would have would have been. 217 00:12:20,760 --> 00:12:24,840 Speaker 2: Higgins writes that there are five ancient descriptions of the gardens. 218 00:12:25,080 --> 00:12:29,439 Speaker 2: The most detailed stems from Greek writer Deodora Sicolis during 219 00:12:29,480 --> 00:12:33,320 Speaker 2: the first century BCE, but he does not identify the 220 00:12:33,360 --> 00:12:36,160 Speaker 2: actual city where this is supposed to be, and he 221 00:12:36,200 --> 00:12:39,080 Speaker 2: also doesn't name the ruler. All he says is that 222 00:12:39,160 --> 00:12:42,800 Speaker 2: it is a quote Syrian king. Still, there are a 223 00:12:42,800 --> 00:12:46,840 Speaker 2: lot of details mentioned in this account, and it specifically 224 00:12:46,840 --> 00:12:52,040 Speaker 2: mentions bricks. He describes ascending tiered terraces full of abundant 225 00:12:52,080 --> 00:12:56,560 Speaker 2: platte life, made level with the opposing battlements of the city, 226 00:12:57,800 --> 00:13:00,600 Speaker 2: opposing as in like there inside the city looking at 227 00:13:00,600 --> 00:13:04,520 Speaker 2: the their opposite an interior wall. So this particular account 228 00:13:04,920 --> 00:13:09,320 Speaker 2: describes that the roofs over a series of galleries were 229 00:13:09,400 --> 00:13:12,640 Speaker 2: layered with stone beams. Then they put down a layer 230 00:13:12,720 --> 00:13:17,120 Speaker 2: of reeds and bitumen. Then two courses of baked bricks 231 00:13:17,760 --> 00:13:20,400 Speaker 2: bonded by cement were put over this. And we'll have 232 00:13:20,440 --> 00:13:23,160 Speaker 2: more on baked bricks in a minute. Then there's a 233 00:13:23,200 --> 00:13:26,400 Speaker 2: layer of lead to prevent moisture from creeping down, and 234 00:13:26,440 --> 00:13:29,040 Speaker 2: then enough dirt and soil on top of all that 235 00:13:29,120 --> 00:13:32,640 Speaker 2: to accommodate the roots of quote the largest trees. So 236 00:13:32,840 --> 00:13:35,719 Speaker 2: a considerable garden project any way you look at it, 237 00:13:35,760 --> 00:13:38,600 Speaker 2: like definitely more involved than anything any of us are 238 00:13:38,640 --> 00:13:42,120 Speaker 2: doing in our backyards. Okay, so I mentioned baked bricks. 239 00:13:42,160 --> 00:13:44,720 Speaker 2: I want to come back to mud bricks specifically. So 240 00:13:44,840 --> 00:13:49,000 Speaker 2: Higgins stresses that these were mud bricks were the most 241 00:13:49,000 --> 00:13:53,600 Speaker 2: important building material in Mesopotamian cities, and this was especially 242 00:13:53,640 --> 00:13:57,160 Speaker 2: true of Babylon, which had no outcroppings of stone in 243 00:13:57,200 --> 00:14:01,440 Speaker 2: the immediate area Nineva. On the other hand, up there, 244 00:14:01,440 --> 00:14:04,640 Speaker 2: there was a local supply of limestone, so they were 245 00:14:04,640 --> 00:14:07,880 Speaker 2: able to lean on that much more for their construction needs. However, 246 00:14:08,000 --> 00:14:11,520 Speaker 2: mud bricks were still used there because they were traditional 247 00:14:11,920 --> 00:14:13,360 Speaker 2: and or inexpensive. 248 00:14:13,600 --> 00:14:16,440 Speaker 3: All right, So you could quarry out stone bricks up 249 00:14:16,440 --> 00:14:19,320 Speaker 3: in Nineve if you need them, But mud bricks are 250 00:14:19,360 --> 00:14:22,440 Speaker 3: still just cheaper and more efficient in many ways, and 251 00:14:22,680 --> 00:14:24,600 Speaker 3: you know, there were something people were used to using 252 00:14:24,640 --> 00:14:25,920 Speaker 3: and they get the job done. 253 00:14:26,360 --> 00:14:29,600 Speaker 2: Right right now. The process of making the mud bricks 254 00:14:29,640 --> 00:14:32,120 Speaker 2: is also very important here, and I thought very interesting. 255 00:14:32,160 --> 00:14:34,640 Speaker 2: I just never had looked into this before, but in 256 00:14:34,680 --> 00:14:40,200 Speaker 2: this particular, their mud bricks you used throughout arid parts 257 00:14:40,240 --> 00:14:43,640 Speaker 2: of the world where people have settled, but these specifically, 258 00:14:43,720 --> 00:14:46,720 Speaker 2: these would have been sediments washed down the Tigris and 259 00:14:46,760 --> 00:14:51,000 Speaker 2: Euphrates from what is now Turkey. Then the people would 260 00:14:51,040 --> 00:14:55,000 Speaker 2: collect the mud and then they would mix in fresh straw. 261 00:14:55,640 --> 00:14:59,400 Speaker 2: This would give the mud bricks, once they had time 262 00:14:59,400 --> 00:15:03,360 Speaker 2: to dry, additional strength. And this reminded me of our 263 00:15:03,400 --> 00:15:07,400 Speaker 2: episode on Pie Create Joe about creating building materials out 264 00:15:07,440 --> 00:15:10,320 Speaker 2: of ice and how something had to be added, something 265 00:15:10,320 --> 00:15:12,400 Speaker 2: had to be mixed in there with it to give 266 00:15:12,400 --> 00:15:13,640 Speaker 2: them additional stability. 267 00:15:13,800 --> 00:15:16,400 Speaker 3: What was it? Was it like, I want to say, 268 00:15:16,440 --> 00:15:19,880 Speaker 3: like chopped up newspaper or straw or sawdust or something 269 00:15:19,960 --> 00:15:23,800 Speaker 3: to that effect. Yeah, yeah, so fresh straw would be 270 00:15:23,920 --> 00:15:26,000 Speaker 3: serving the purpose here, and it does seem like it 271 00:15:26,040 --> 00:15:27,680 Speaker 3: did need to be fresh, and we'll come back to 272 00:15:27,760 --> 00:15:31,120 Speaker 3: that in a second. Then, so you have the mud 273 00:15:31,160 --> 00:15:34,200 Speaker 3: you've added in the fresh straw. Then you mold these 274 00:15:34,280 --> 00:15:37,080 Speaker 3: into more or less uniform brick shapes, and then you 275 00:15:37,240 --> 00:15:40,640 Speaker 3: leave them to air dry. And then once dry, you 276 00:15:40,680 --> 00:15:44,360 Speaker 3: know today you have bricks for building all sorts of structures. 277 00:15:44,960 --> 00:15:47,360 Speaker 3: So this began as mud, but it ends up being 278 00:15:47,400 --> 00:15:48,960 Speaker 3: sturdy enough to build. 279 00:15:48,680 --> 00:15:51,920 Speaker 2: With, right, So there are some pros and cons here. 280 00:15:51,960 --> 00:15:54,880 Speaker 2: So the pros the big pro of course, is that 281 00:15:54,920 --> 00:15:59,720 Speaker 2: these are inexpensive and they don't require high temperature, fuel 282 00:15:59,720 --> 00:16:02,960 Speaker 2: consuming ovens to bake them as you have with with 283 00:16:03,080 --> 00:16:05,920 Speaker 2: baked bricks. You can make a ton of them. You 284 00:16:05,920 --> 00:16:09,000 Speaker 2: can use them to build battlements, buildings, et cetera in 285 00:16:09,040 --> 00:16:10,000 Speaker 2: pretty short order. 286 00:16:10,280 --> 00:16:14,040 Speaker 3: So again they're they're cheap, they're fast building material to 287 00:16:14,120 --> 00:16:17,320 Speaker 3: make them as abundant, and they get the job done right. 288 00:16:17,680 --> 00:16:20,000 Speaker 2: And I don't want to imply that, you know, there's 289 00:16:20,120 --> 00:16:22,920 Speaker 2: just a crude mode of construction, Like obviously there's an 290 00:16:23,000 --> 00:16:25,360 Speaker 2: art and a craftsmanship to making them, and I think 291 00:16:25,360 --> 00:16:29,280 Speaker 2: that's key here too, Like the local people knew how 292 00:16:29,280 --> 00:16:31,560 Speaker 2: to make them. There was a tradition of making them, 293 00:16:31,720 --> 00:16:34,360 Speaker 2: and that also allowed them to bust them out in 294 00:16:34,440 --> 00:16:36,280 Speaker 2: massive quantities in a short amount of time. 295 00:16:36,640 --> 00:16:38,480 Speaker 3: Oh yeah, I want to be clear by saying like 296 00:16:38,520 --> 00:16:41,040 Speaker 3: that they're inexpensive, I mean that they're you know, they're 297 00:16:41,080 --> 00:16:45,160 Speaker 3: inexpensive relative to like quarrying or having to fire the 298 00:16:45,200 --> 00:16:47,400 Speaker 3: bricks in an oven. But that doesn't mean that they're 299 00:16:47,440 --> 00:16:50,160 Speaker 3: like junk. I mean this is this is building material 300 00:16:50,320 --> 00:16:53,920 Speaker 3: that serves its purpose and it is efficient, it's smart. 301 00:16:54,360 --> 00:16:58,040 Speaker 2: Now there are cons here. Of course, these are arid environments, 302 00:16:58,040 --> 00:17:00,560 Speaker 2: but it doesn't mean that it doesn't rain, doesn't mean 303 00:17:00,600 --> 00:17:05,760 Speaker 2: that there aren't floods, periodic flooding and so forth. So yeah, 304 00:17:05,760 --> 00:17:09,399 Speaker 2: they're easily washed away or damage during storms. Plus this 305 00:17:10,280 --> 00:17:13,280 Speaker 2: was impressive, as Higgins points out, the bricks at the 306 00:17:13,320 --> 00:17:17,840 Speaker 2: base of walls of structures draw up and absorb water 307 00:17:18,000 --> 00:17:22,960 Speaker 2: by capillary action. The water evaporates, but quote, salts are 308 00:17:22,960 --> 00:17:27,480 Speaker 2: concentrated and finally crystallize between the mineral grains, causing the 309 00:17:27,560 --> 00:17:31,159 Speaker 2: mud to flake, weakening the base of the walls. And 310 00:17:31,200 --> 00:17:33,239 Speaker 2: he also has this was especially true would have been 311 00:17:33,240 --> 00:17:36,520 Speaker 2: true in Babylon due to the rather brackish ground water. 312 00:17:37,400 --> 00:17:40,240 Speaker 3: Yeah. Okay, so higher salt content in that water, more 313 00:17:40,600 --> 00:17:42,280 Speaker 3: more crystals getting into the bricks. 314 00:17:42,840 --> 00:17:46,800 Speaker 2: Yeah, so mud brick buildings while essential for the time period, 315 00:17:47,000 --> 00:17:50,159 Speaker 2: also required a lot of upkeep, and they would eventually fail. 316 00:17:50,920 --> 00:17:54,960 Speaker 2: Mud brick buildings would eventually crumble and fall apart, and 317 00:17:55,040 --> 00:17:59,760 Speaker 2: any resulting bricks would not be reused, nor would the mud. 318 00:18:00,640 --> 00:18:02,879 Speaker 2: Like you couldn't just like you know, essentially wet it 319 00:18:02,920 --> 00:18:06,560 Speaker 2: all down and form new mud bricks out of that mud, 320 00:18:06,640 --> 00:18:09,000 Speaker 2: out of that soil. And it's thought that a lot 321 00:18:09,000 --> 00:18:10,840 Speaker 2: of this had to do with the fact that at 322 00:18:10,840 --> 00:18:13,480 Speaker 2: this point it's all it's old straw mixed in there, 323 00:18:13,760 --> 00:18:15,640 Speaker 2: and it's not going to hold things together as well 324 00:18:15,640 --> 00:18:19,080 Speaker 2: as fresh straw. So you would get fresh mud from 325 00:18:19,119 --> 00:18:21,760 Speaker 2: the river, you would add fresh straw to that, and 326 00:18:21,800 --> 00:18:26,040 Speaker 2: you would just build new new bricks the old side, 327 00:18:26,080 --> 00:18:28,760 Speaker 2: the crumbled bricks, et cetera. You would just flatten that 328 00:18:28,880 --> 00:18:32,280 Speaker 2: down as much as possible, and that would service the 329 00:18:32,320 --> 00:18:36,720 Speaker 2: foundation for the new structure. And it's interesting that resulting 330 00:18:36,800 --> 00:18:40,200 Speaker 2: mound of old mud bricks is what we call a tell. 331 00:18:41,640 --> 00:18:45,520 Speaker 2: This is like a rising heap where these would these 332 00:18:45,520 --> 00:18:47,840 Speaker 2: buildings would crumble, they'd have to be flattened. You'd build 333 00:18:47,840 --> 00:18:50,120 Speaker 2: a new one that eventually would crumble and be flattened. 334 00:18:50,480 --> 00:18:55,000 Speaker 2: Higgins rights that over the millennia. Such tells actually lifted 335 00:18:55,000 --> 00:18:58,240 Speaker 2: the base levels of cities up above the plane, making 336 00:18:58,280 --> 00:19:01,760 Speaker 2: them more defendable, making the more desirable as places to 337 00:19:02,200 --> 00:19:05,359 Speaker 2: live and to work and to defend yourself. And therefore 338 00:19:05,359 --> 00:19:06,720 Speaker 2: the pattern would just continue. 339 00:19:07,119 --> 00:19:10,000 Speaker 3: Yeah. And so you can see in the locations or 340 00:19:10,080 --> 00:19:15,160 Speaker 3: ruins of some ancient settlements, especially in the ancient Near East, 341 00:19:15,600 --> 00:19:18,600 Speaker 3: that maybe even no buildings remained, but there's just a 342 00:19:18,640 --> 00:19:21,160 Speaker 3: big mound built up off the ground. 343 00:19:22,040 --> 00:19:35,040 Speaker 2: Yeah. So that's incredible. So anyway, the problems of mud 344 00:19:35,080 --> 00:19:37,960 Speaker 2: bricks were known, even though they were traditional, even though 345 00:19:37,960 --> 00:19:41,240 Speaker 2: they were inexpensive. Higgins points out that not only is 346 00:19:41,280 --> 00:19:44,639 Speaker 2: Babylon home to some of the earliest known recorded legal systems, 347 00:19:45,040 --> 00:19:48,000 Speaker 2: but also some of those laws that were recorded concerned 348 00:19:48,000 --> 00:19:52,080 Speaker 2: building collapses. It was written that if a building's collapse 349 00:19:52,160 --> 00:19:54,920 Speaker 2: caused the death of the homeowner, then the builder would 350 00:19:54,960 --> 00:19:55,960 Speaker 2: be put to death. 351 00:19:56,680 --> 00:19:58,960 Speaker 3: Oh wow, that is a strict building code. 352 00:19:59,359 --> 00:20:02,120 Speaker 2: Yeah, but you know, it makes sense you're building, I mean, 353 00:20:02,200 --> 00:20:05,879 Speaker 2: not to say the eye for and eye nature of it, 354 00:20:06,400 --> 00:20:08,320 Speaker 2: you know, makes it makes sense so much. But just 355 00:20:08,359 --> 00:20:11,480 Speaker 2: the idea that like, buildings are important and there has 356 00:20:11,520 --> 00:20:13,600 Speaker 2: to be some sort of you know, some sort of 357 00:20:13,720 --> 00:20:17,040 Speaker 2: law in place to make sure things are built to code. 358 00:20:17,320 --> 00:20:20,120 Speaker 3: Yeah, maybe not death penalty, but builders should be kept 359 00:20:20,119 --> 00:20:20,840 Speaker 3: to a high standard. 360 00:20:21,200 --> 00:20:24,080 Speaker 2: Yeah yeah. And so you know, again, it was known 361 00:20:24,080 --> 00:20:26,159 Speaker 2: that there could be problems with mud bricks, and it 362 00:20:26,200 --> 00:20:30,040 Speaker 2: was discovered early on that you could transform mud bricks 363 00:20:30,040 --> 00:20:34,480 Speaker 2: of a sort into something harder and less susceptible to erosion. 364 00:20:34,880 --> 00:20:39,000 Speaker 2: Higgins writes, quote, heat changes water bearing clay minerals with 365 00:20:39,040 --> 00:20:44,320 Speaker 2: their slippery playing card structure, into larger, interlocking crystals of 366 00:20:44,440 --> 00:20:48,800 Speaker 2: minerals containing less water, which makes a stronger material than 367 00:20:48,840 --> 00:20:53,320 Speaker 2: is water resistant. He ultimately compares this transformation to kind 368 00:20:53,359 --> 00:20:59,080 Speaker 2: of a sped up and you know, less sophisticated process 369 00:20:59,359 --> 00:21:04,080 Speaker 2: of metamorphism that in like in the ground and over 370 00:21:04,160 --> 00:21:09,200 Speaker 2: geologic time, produces things like marble. And so he writes 371 00:21:09,200 --> 00:21:11,520 Speaker 2: that many of the great Babylonian structures of the day 372 00:21:11,600 --> 00:21:15,040 Speaker 2: would have been made of baked bricks, and these would 373 00:21:15,160 --> 00:21:18,920 Speaker 2: ultimately last so long that they would be reused long 374 00:21:19,080 --> 00:21:22,479 Speaker 2: after the final fall of Babylon to build such cities 375 00:21:22,520 --> 00:21:25,480 Speaker 2: as Baghdad. And we see this in other parts of 376 00:21:25,480 --> 00:21:27,760 Speaker 2: the world as well, Like the bricks stand the test 377 00:21:27,760 --> 00:21:31,560 Speaker 2: of time, and then the bricks are scavenged in order 378 00:21:31,600 --> 00:21:34,320 Speaker 2: to build the new cities of an emerging new world. 379 00:21:34,960 --> 00:21:37,679 Speaker 3: But these would have been fire bricks. 380 00:21:37,720 --> 00:21:39,600 Speaker 2: Bricks, Yes, these have been the fired Yeah, you're not 381 00:21:39,640 --> 00:21:42,000 Speaker 2: doing this with mud bricks at all, But baked bricks 382 00:21:42,520 --> 00:21:45,240 Speaker 2: are just that much more durable and and you know, 383 00:21:45,320 --> 00:21:47,800 Speaker 2: and it's it's inter I was been talking about this 384 00:21:47,840 --> 00:21:49,760 Speaker 2: with my wife and she pointed out that, you know, 385 00:21:49,800 --> 00:21:53,520 Speaker 2: a lot of the bricks we see on houses today, 386 00:21:54,040 --> 00:21:56,600 Speaker 2: like they're pure they're purely ornamental. They're real baked bricks, 387 00:21:56,960 --> 00:22:00,320 Speaker 2: but they're not like doing much or anything in the 388 00:22:00,359 --> 00:22:03,560 Speaker 2: way of structural support for the house. Your house isn't 389 00:22:03,560 --> 00:22:05,920 Speaker 2: built out of bricks. It's built out of wood framing 390 00:22:06,000 --> 00:22:08,040 Speaker 2: and all the other stuff. But the bricks are there 391 00:22:08,119 --> 00:22:11,800 Speaker 2: just for ornamental purposes, well, depending on the house. But yeah, 392 00:22:11,840 --> 00:22:14,960 Speaker 2: in a lot of modern uses. Yeah. Now, Higgins points 393 00:22:15,000 --> 00:22:18,600 Speaker 2: out that limestone was also used in special instances, but 394 00:22:18,680 --> 00:22:22,159 Speaker 2: this would have been expensive to import in Babylon, Unlike 395 00:22:22,200 --> 00:22:26,119 Speaker 2: with Nineveh. The walls of Babylon, however, were also sometimes 396 00:22:26,240 --> 00:22:29,199 Speaker 2: listed as an ancient wonder in and of themselves. They 397 00:22:29,200 --> 00:22:33,399 Speaker 2: were made of mud bricks, and the gates faced with 398 00:22:35,040 --> 00:22:39,600 Speaker 2: baked bricks that were glazed with a glass like blue 399 00:22:39,640 --> 00:22:43,360 Speaker 2: glaze that was then detailed with yellow flora and fauna 400 00:22:43,480 --> 00:22:47,040 Speaker 2: things like lions and all. So these walls would have 401 00:22:47,080 --> 00:22:50,399 Speaker 2: begun depended mostly on baked bricks for their their bulk 402 00:22:51,000 --> 00:22:55,119 Speaker 2: and their protective qualities. But then you also had glazed 403 00:22:55,160 --> 00:22:59,240 Speaker 2: baked bricks that made them, you know, beautiful to behold 404 00:22:59,359 --> 00:23:02,720 Speaker 2: and spoke of the glory of the city and its ruler. 405 00:23:03,280 --> 00:23:05,159 Speaker 2: So Higgins goes into a lot more detail in the 406 00:23:05,160 --> 00:23:07,239 Speaker 2: book about all of this, and especially gets into the 407 00:23:07,280 --> 00:23:11,600 Speaker 2: geology of the region. But I think just what we've 408 00:23:11,680 --> 00:23:14,680 Speaker 2: we've drawn out here already, it provides a nice glance 409 00:23:14,720 --> 00:23:16,840 Speaker 2: at the importance of mud bricks in the ancient world 410 00:23:17,240 --> 00:23:20,280 Speaker 2: they're pros and cons, and also how they serve as 411 00:23:20,320 --> 00:23:24,280 Speaker 2: a necessary predecessor to baked brick technology that would basically 412 00:23:24,359 --> 00:23:27,040 Speaker 2: serve as the next step in humanity's ability to take 413 00:23:27,560 --> 00:23:31,479 Speaker 2: essentially mud and remake it as solid earth for our 414 00:23:31,520 --> 00:23:35,040 Speaker 2: own purposes. And how fitting too that this occurred in 415 00:23:35,080 --> 00:23:39,600 Speaker 2: the shadows of the Ziggorots holy mountains constructed by human ingenuity. 416 00:23:40,359 --> 00:23:43,520 Speaker 3: Now, from here I wanted to talk about one specific 417 00:23:43,640 --> 00:23:49,280 Speaker 3: example of amazing mud based construction practices that still exists 418 00:23:49,640 --> 00:23:52,720 Speaker 3: in the world today, and that is the example of 419 00:23:52,840 --> 00:23:59,000 Speaker 3: the mud built skyscrapers of the city of Shibam. So 420 00:23:59,040 --> 00:24:01,320 Speaker 3: I was reading about this number of sources. One of 421 00:24:01,320 --> 00:24:03,840 Speaker 3: the main ones out site is an entry in the 422 00:24:03,960 --> 00:24:08,840 Speaker 3: Encyclopedia of Architectural and Engineering Feats edited by Donald Longmead 423 00:24:08,920 --> 00:24:12,920 Speaker 3: and Christine Garneault, published in two thousand and one. So 424 00:24:12,960 --> 00:24:17,439 Speaker 3: the city of Shibam is located in modern day Yemen. 425 00:24:17,800 --> 00:24:21,680 Speaker 3: It is situated on top of a rock spur at 426 00:24:21,720 --> 00:24:25,760 Speaker 3: the southern tip of the Ruballkhali Desert of the Arabian 427 00:24:25,800 --> 00:24:30,159 Speaker 3: Peninsula and the Rublkali. That name means empty quarter. This 428 00:24:30,280 --> 00:24:33,040 Speaker 3: is an area of approximately one thousand by five hundred 429 00:24:33,119 --> 00:24:38,879 Speaker 3: kilometers covered in sand dunes, with relatively little human habitation 430 00:24:39,119 --> 00:24:42,159 Speaker 3: and plant and animal life compared to other areas. It 431 00:24:42,240 --> 00:24:47,520 Speaker 3: is a hyper arid desert of windswept dunes of sand. 432 00:24:48,520 --> 00:24:51,040 Speaker 3: So this is near the southern end of that area 433 00:24:51,160 --> 00:24:54,800 Speaker 3: sort of where it's transitioning into other sort of ecoregions. 434 00:24:55,400 --> 00:24:58,920 Speaker 3: Many of the buildings that still stand in the city 435 00:24:58,920 --> 00:25:03,040 Speaker 3: of Shabam today date back to the sixteenth century, though 436 00:25:03,080 --> 00:25:06,120 Speaker 3: the settlement itself is older. Several sources I was looking 437 00:25:06,160 --> 00:25:08,879 Speaker 3: at said it went back to the third century CE. 438 00:25:09,400 --> 00:25:11,639 Speaker 3: The population of the city in the modern era is 439 00:25:11,720 --> 00:25:17,080 Speaker 3: roughly seven thousand, and most of these people live in 440 00:25:17,160 --> 00:25:21,280 Speaker 3: these mud brick high rise houses. There are more than 441 00:25:21,359 --> 00:25:25,360 Speaker 3: five hundred of these structures inside the city walls. I've 442 00:25:25,400 --> 00:25:29,679 Speaker 3: seen vastly conflicting estimates on the height of the tallest ones. 443 00:25:30,119 --> 00:25:33,240 Speaker 3: The Encyclopedia entry I just cited says that some of 444 00:25:33,280 --> 00:25:36,560 Speaker 3: them are up to twelve stories tall. Other sources say 445 00:25:36,600 --> 00:25:39,040 Speaker 3: the tallest are more like seven stories. I don't know 446 00:25:39,080 --> 00:25:41,399 Speaker 3: what accounts for that difference, but I bet it depends 447 00:25:41,400 --> 00:25:44,320 Speaker 3: on how you're counting the stories. Maybe its height versus 448 00:25:44,359 --> 00:25:48,200 Speaker 3: the actual number of occupied floors, because I think within 449 00:25:48,280 --> 00:25:50,840 Speaker 3: those buildings the floors are actually quite tall, like the 450 00:25:50,880 --> 00:25:53,879 Speaker 3: ceilings are high, and there will be multiple levels of 451 00:25:54,000 --> 00:25:56,920 Speaker 3: windows within a single floor of the building. 452 00:25:57,640 --> 00:26:00,240 Speaker 2: That would make sense too, based on some of the 453 00:26:00,080 --> 00:26:03,560 Speaker 2: the design parameters that are that are common with with 454 00:26:03,560 --> 00:26:05,560 Speaker 2: with with this sort of climate and the sort of 455 00:26:05,560 --> 00:26:08,240 Speaker 2: construction material like we referenced earlier. 456 00:26:08,040 --> 00:26:11,480 Speaker 3: Right, because you want a lot of windows situated high 457 00:26:11,560 --> 00:26:14,080 Speaker 3: up so that as hot air rises, it can flow 458 00:26:14,119 --> 00:26:18,760 Speaker 3: out through those windows. So you get high ceilings, windows 459 00:26:18,880 --> 00:26:22,600 Speaker 3: up near the ceiling above where the people are walking around. 460 00:26:23,600 --> 00:26:26,760 Speaker 2: Now, I think people should if it's safe to do so, 461 00:26:27,119 --> 00:26:29,320 Speaker 2: you know, not if you're driving the car, obviously, but 462 00:26:29,760 --> 00:26:31,959 Speaker 2: you should look up images of this because when we 463 00:26:32,000 --> 00:26:36,720 Speaker 2: say mud rick high rises, or you hear a description 464 00:26:36,920 --> 00:26:40,199 Speaker 2: like the Manhattan of the desert, which I've seen, you 465 00:26:40,280 --> 00:26:44,280 Speaker 2: might you might not fully believe it, but because it 466 00:26:44,760 --> 00:26:48,080 Speaker 2: is very almost unreal to behold. But yes, it does 467 00:26:48,359 --> 00:26:51,719 Speaker 2: look essentially like parts of Manhattan in terms of the 468 00:26:51,720 --> 00:26:53,840 Speaker 2: scope of the buildings and the height of the buildings, 469 00:26:53,880 --> 00:26:56,640 Speaker 2: and the modernity of the buildings, you know, and there's 470 00:26:56,680 --> 00:26:59,760 Speaker 2: sort of basic shape and design. This does not look 471 00:27:00,359 --> 00:27:04,560 Speaker 2: like a like like some sort of you know, archaic city. 472 00:27:05,000 --> 00:27:07,800 Speaker 2: It looks at once modern and yet you can tell 473 00:27:07,840 --> 00:27:11,200 Speaker 2: there's something about the building materials that is different. So 474 00:27:11,720 --> 00:27:15,520 Speaker 2: this is a remarkable city that is rising up out 475 00:27:15,520 --> 00:27:16,240 Speaker 2: of the desert here. 476 00:27:16,840 --> 00:27:21,600 Speaker 3: Some sources have identified these as the world's oldest skyscrapers. 477 00:27:21,680 --> 00:27:24,040 Speaker 3: I don't know how you make the cut for skyscraper, 478 00:27:24,720 --> 00:27:27,359 Speaker 3: but they are very old buildings and very tall for 479 00:27:27,440 --> 00:27:30,440 Speaker 3: their construction materials. So they are made of mud bricks, 480 00:27:31,000 --> 00:27:34,639 Speaker 3: and yeah, you mentioned the sort of nickname used in 481 00:27:34,680 --> 00:27:38,400 Speaker 3: some Western media, the Manhattan of the desert. As far 482 00:27:38,440 --> 00:27:42,080 Speaker 3: as I know, the city of Shibam was first called 483 00:27:42,119 --> 00:27:45,200 Speaker 3: that in the nineteen thirties. I think that it goes 484 00:27:45,240 --> 00:27:48,960 Speaker 3: back to the British explorer Freya Stark who called it that. 485 00:27:49,560 --> 00:27:52,720 Speaker 3: And speaking of how the city was described in Western 486 00:27:52,760 --> 00:27:55,560 Speaker 3: media in the nineteen thirties, I found an article in 487 00:27:55,600 --> 00:27:58,680 Speaker 3: an old issue of Popular Mechanics from nineteen thirty six 488 00:27:58,760 --> 00:28:03,159 Speaker 3: called MUDs sky scrapers of desert built long before the 489 00:28:03,240 --> 00:28:07,280 Speaker 3: log cabin. So it's just a little paragraph, but I 490 00:28:07,280 --> 00:28:08,959 Speaker 3: wanted to read this because I thought it was funny. 491 00:28:08,960 --> 00:28:12,480 Speaker 3: So it First the caption on the photo says centuries 492 00:28:12,520 --> 00:28:15,880 Speaker 3: old city of Shibam in Southern Arabia is a cluster 493 00:28:15,960 --> 00:28:19,520 Speaker 3: of sun hardened mud skyscrapers that have withstood tests of 494 00:28:19,560 --> 00:28:23,400 Speaker 3: time and weather. And then the body text says, mud 495 00:28:23,480 --> 00:28:27,040 Speaker 3: skyscrapers that were hundreds of years old when log cabins 496 00:28:27,080 --> 00:28:30,679 Speaker 3: began to dot the American wilderness still stand in the 497 00:28:30,720 --> 00:28:34,560 Speaker 3: ancient city of Shabam in Southern Arabia. The modern steel 498 00:28:34,600 --> 00:28:38,800 Speaker 3: skyscraper is only fifty years old. Shabomb was a thriving 499 00:28:38,880 --> 00:28:41,400 Speaker 3: city of tall buildings in the time of the Queen 500 00:28:41,480 --> 00:28:45,200 Speaker 3: of Sheba, and still is a busy desert metropolis today, 501 00:28:45,680 --> 00:28:49,440 Speaker 3: so constructed as to withstand the raids of hostile Arab tribesmen, 502 00:28:49,480 --> 00:28:53,120 Speaker 3: with the windows high above the ground. The Shabam skyscrapers 503 00:28:53,160 --> 00:28:56,640 Speaker 3: were of mud mixed with straw and maize, dried and 504 00:28:56,720 --> 00:29:00,040 Speaker 3: hardened by the desert sun. And then directly under that 505 00:29:00,080 --> 00:29:05,320 Speaker 3: there's another headline that says insects killed by vaporizer heated electrically. 506 00:29:06,800 --> 00:29:09,280 Speaker 3: But so, as Rob said, if you're able to look 507 00:29:09,360 --> 00:29:11,520 Speaker 3: up images of the city of Shabam, you should because 508 00:29:11,600 --> 00:29:16,200 Speaker 3: it's amazing looking. But if you can't, one thing you 509 00:29:16,200 --> 00:29:20,160 Speaker 3: should understand is that the city itself has a notably 510 00:29:20,480 --> 00:29:24,840 Speaker 3: small and tidy horizontal footprint. It is about half a 511 00:29:24,880 --> 00:29:29,720 Speaker 3: square kilometer stretching up instead of out. And when it 512 00:29:29,760 --> 00:29:33,680 Speaker 3: was recognized by UNESCO's World Heritage List in the nineteen 513 00:29:33,720 --> 00:29:36,040 Speaker 3: eighties I think it was nineteen eighty two, it was 514 00:29:36,080 --> 00:29:39,040 Speaker 3: described as quote one of the oldest and best examples 515 00:29:39,040 --> 00:29:44,720 Speaker 3: of urban planning based on the principle of vertical construction. Now, Rob, 516 00:29:45,040 --> 00:29:48,440 Speaker 3: I'm about to divulge something of great relevance to you. Personally, 517 00:29:48,480 --> 00:29:52,640 Speaker 3: I know you love a skybridge. Well, A lot of 518 00:29:52,720 --> 00:29:56,480 Speaker 3: the mud built high rises in Shabam are linked by 519 00:29:56,640 --> 00:30:02,160 Speaker 3: upper floor floating corridors. Skybridges may out of mud. So 520 00:30:02,480 --> 00:30:04,440 Speaker 3: I attached some photos here for you to look at. 521 00:30:04,520 --> 00:30:07,000 Speaker 3: It looks, at least at least some of the photos 522 00:30:07,000 --> 00:30:09,280 Speaker 3: I could find, it looks like the skybridges are not 523 00:30:09,560 --> 00:30:11,600 Speaker 3: covered on top. I don't know if they're all like 524 00:30:11,640 --> 00:30:14,000 Speaker 3: that or if it's just some of them, but in 525 00:30:14,560 --> 00:30:17,400 Speaker 3: some of these photos it's like a walkway connecting the 526 00:30:17,440 --> 00:30:21,320 Speaker 3: upper floors of these buildings that has a bottom, of course, 527 00:30:21,400 --> 00:30:23,240 Speaker 3: and then it has walls rising up on the sides, 528 00:30:23,280 --> 00:30:24,240 Speaker 3: but not a roof. 529 00:30:24,960 --> 00:30:28,600 Speaker 2: Wow, this is amazing. Yes, I had no idea, but 530 00:30:28,720 --> 00:30:33,239 Speaker 2: here they are. Yeah, the mud brick skybridges, I'll take it. 531 00:30:33,840 --> 00:30:36,400 Speaker 3: So from what I've read, the design of the city 532 00:30:36,440 --> 00:30:39,520 Speaker 3: with its mud walls all around it also, as I said, 533 00:30:39,560 --> 00:30:42,320 Speaker 3: it has walls surrounding the city that are also made 534 00:30:42,320 --> 00:30:46,400 Speaker 3: of mud brick. The design of the city, with the walls, 535 00:30:46,440 --> 00:30:49,720 Speaker 3: the high rises and the skybridges, is in large part 536 00:30:49,920 --> 00:30:53,400 Speaker 3: defensive in nature. The city was built to defend itself 537 00:30:53,480 --> 00:30:57,760 Speaker 3: against marauders. Now why, like, what would make this city 538 00:30:57,800 --> 00:31:02,120 Speaker 3: in particular a target for such attacks. According to some sources, 539 00:31:02,120 --> 00:31:04,360 Speaker 3: it may have a lot to do with Frankensnse and 540 00:31:04,400 --> 00:31:09,120 Speaker 3: the Frankensense trade. Frankinson's traders used to have routes that 541 00:31:09,280 --> 00:31:13,440 Speaker 3: cross the Rubl Khali desert, and Shibam was a hub 542 00:31:13,560 --> 00:31:16,480 Speaker 3: along one of those caravan routes. So there was a 543 00:31:16,520 --> 00:31:20,560 Speaker 3: lot of Frankensense trade and as a result, a decent 544 00:31:20,600 --> 00:31:24,520 Speaker 3: amount of wealth associated with that. Now, Rob as you mentioned, 545 00:31:24,840 --> 00:31:27,880 Speaker 3: mud based buildings are great and that they have many 546 00:31:27,880 --> 00:31:31,840 Speaker 3: wonderful properties, but they do need frequent upkeep. The walls 547 00:31:31,880 --> 00:31:35,000 Speaker 3: have to be replastered on an ongoing basis to counteract 548 00:31:35,040 --> 00:31:37,960 Speaker 3: erosion damage from wind and rain, and they also have 549 00:31:38,040 --> 00:31:40,880 Speaker 3: to be built with the limitations of their construction materials 550 00:31:40,920 --> 00:31:45,040 Speaker 3: in mind. So the mud high rises here they tend 551 00:31:45,080 --> 00:31:48,920 Speaker 3: to have thicker walls near the bottom that become thinner 552 00:31:48,960 --> 00:31:51,000 Speaker 3: as the stories go up. So the buildings kind of 553 00:31:51,680 --> 00:31:55,600 Speaker 3: taper inward as they go up higher, and this is 554 00:31:55,680 --> 00:31:58,800 Speaker 3: to reduce the weight load from higher floors pressing down 555 00:31:58,840 --> 00:32:03,600 Speaker 3: on the bricks below, because again the walls are partially 556 00:32:03,680 --> 00:32:07,680 Speaker 3: load bearing, though there are also some internal posts like 557 00:32:07,760 --> 00:32:10,600 Speaker 3: timber posts that help bear the weight of the building 558 00:32:10,600 --> 00:32:12,920 Speaker 3: as well. I was kind of surprised to learn that 559 00:32:13,040 --> 00:32:15,640 Speaker 3: many of the houses here are actually occupied only by 560 00:32:15,680 --> 00:32:19,680 Speaker 3: a single family. So often the family will live on 561 00:32:19,720 --> 00:32:21,800 Speaker 3: the upper floors of the building, and then the lower 562 00:32:21,840 --> 00:32:26,520 Speaker 3: floors are places that are traditionally used for storage of food, 563 00:32:26,680 --> 00:32:29,360 Speaker 3: like grain storage and for livestock. 564 00:32:30,440 --> 00:32:32,120 Speaker 2: That's fascinating, and I guess it would make sense too 565 00:32:32,120 --> 00:32:34,120 Speaker 2: that you'd want to live on those upper floors because 566 00:32:34,160 --> 00:32:36,440 Speaker 2: you would get more ventilation and so forth. 567 00:32:46,280 --> 00:32:49,320 Speaker 3: Now, Shbam lies in a valley at the confluence of 568 00:32:49,360 --> 00:32:53,360 Speaker 3: several waddies. A waddy is a ravine or a river 569 00:32:53,440 --> 00:32:56,000 Speaker 3: channel in the desert that is dry most of the time, 570 00:32:56,040 --> 00:32:59,120 Speaker 3: but then floods with water during the rainy season, and 571 00:32:59,200 --> 00:33:02,320 Speaker 3: as often have in desert environments, it can be very 572 00:33:02,400 --> 00:33:05,800 Speaker 3: dry and then suddenly extremely wet when the rain comes. 573 00:33:05,880 --> 00:33:09,080 Speaker 3: You know, so the flood comes in, and that can 574 00:33:09,120 --> 00:33:14,240 Speaker 3: be very dangerous to human settlements, especially settlements made out 575 00:33:14,280 --> 00:33:19,680 Speaker 3: of mud brick. Because of the placement at the convergence 576 00:33:19,680 --> 00:33:23,840 Speaker 3: of these waddies, Shabam is vulnerable to flooding and has 577 00:33:23,840 --> 00:33:27,240 Speaker 3: suffered catastrophic flooding damage at various points in history. Such 578 00:33:27,240 --> 00:33:30,120 Speaker 3: as in fifteen thirty two, that's when a lot of 579 00:33:30,160 --> 00:33:33,640 Speaker 3: the city had to be rebuilt. And why that's you know, 580 00:33:33,680 --> 00:33:37,720 Speaker 3: as far back as most of the skyscrapers there today date. Now, 581 00:33:37,760 --> 00:33:40,280 Speaker 3: why would you build high rises out of mud here 582 00:33:40,360 --> 00:33:44,240 Speaker 3: instead of just more you know, regular low lying dwellings. Well. 583 00:33:44,280 --> 00:33:47,560 Speaker 3: The entry in the Encyclopedia of Architectural and Engineering Feats 584 00:33:47,560 --> 00:33:52,480 Speaker 3: identifies several reasons for the vertical expansion. One is because 585 00:33:52,640 --> 00:33:56,560 Speaker 3: of the area's proneness to flooding. The city is situated up, 586 00:33:56,600 --> 00:33:58,960 Speaker 3: as I said on kind of a rockspur so it's 587 00:33:59,320 --> 00:34:02,320 Speaker 3: raised up above the floor of the valley, but not 588 00:34:02,520 --> 00:34:05,520 Speaker 3: raised up enough to totally avoid flood damage, and floods 589 00:34:05,520 --> 00:34:09,960 Speaker 3: can threaten it. So one is protection from flooding. Another 590 00:34:10,280 --> 00:34:15,560 Speaker 3: is preservation of horizontal acreage around the city for agriculture, 591 00:34:15,600 --> 00:34:19,920 Speaker 3: because there are date palm groves all around, and so 592 00:34:20,040 --> 00:34:22,760 Speaker 3: expanding the footprint of the city would essentially cut into 593 00:34:22,840 --> 00:34:24,120 Speaker 3: the farmland around it. 594 00:34:24,600 --> 00:34:27,760 Speaker 2: This detail makes for some really beautiful photos though, because 595 00:34:27,800 --> 00:34:32,640 Speaker 2: you see those brilliant green date palms all around the 596 00:34:32,960 --> 00:34:35,920 Speaker 2: outside walls of the city. 597 00:34:36,000 --> 00:34:39,360 Speaker 3: Yes. Another reason is the desire to gather families in 598 00:34:39,400 --> 00:34:42,280 Speaker 3: a single building I guess this means like even large families. 599 00:34:42,960 --> 00:34:47,279 Speaker 3: And then finally to squeeze more of the city inside 600 00:34:47,400 --> 00:34:50,680 Speaker 3: the protective perimeter wall, which again was to defend against 601 00:34:50,719 --> 00:34:53,839 Speaker 3: raiders who might want to attack the city for its 602 00:34:53,840 --> 00:34:57,920 Speaker 3: wealth associated with the Frankinson's trade. Now we've already covered 603 00:34:57,960 --> 00:35:00,640 Speaker 3: how mud bricks are made, but how are these skyscrapers 604 00:35:00,640 --> 00:35:03,239 Speaker 3: in particular are put together. Well, they are made out 605 00:35:03,239 --> 00:35:05,279 Speaker 3: of mud bricks as far as I can tell, you know, 606 00:35:05,320 --> 00:35:07,920 Speaker 3: based on the normal method. So these would be mud 607 00:35:08,000 --> 00:35:11,600 Speaker 3: reinforced with straw baked in the sun, which is stuccoed 608 00:35:11,640 --> 00:35:13,960 Speaker 3: over on the outside of the buildings with a plaster 609 00:35:14,120 --> 00:35:17,080 Speaker 3: made out of clay and chopped straw. And then this 610 00:35:17,120 --> 00:35:20,600 Speaker 3: is all placed upon a stone foundation. As I said, 611 00:35:20,640 --> 00:35:23,840 Speaker 3: the mud brick walls tend to taper inward and become 612 00:35:23,920 --> 00:35:26,880 Speaker 3: thinner as they go up, because again the walls are 613 00:35:26,920 --> 00:35:31,320 Speaker 3: partially load bearing. The buildings reach heights of forty meters 614 00:35:31,440 --> 00:35:34,000 Speaker 3: or one hundred and thirty feet, and the walls of 615 00:35:34,040 --> 00:35:36,480 Speaker 3: the ground floor are generally between one point three and 616 00:35:36,520 --> 00:35:39,720 Speaker 3: two meters thick, so that's like four to six feet thick. 617 00:35:40,200 --> 00:35:41,840 Speaker 3: There's a lot of it just seems to be a 618 00:35:41,840 --> 00:35:45,319 Speaker 3: lot of energy efficiency in mind in the construction of 619 00:35:45,360 --> 00:35:47,919 Speaker 3: the city because they have all these properties. But also 620 00:35:48,120 --> 00:35:50,600 Speaker 3: like they have the sky bridges I mentioned, and that 621 00:35:50,760 --> 00:35:53,359 Speaker 3: is to allow neighbors to visit one another without having 622 00:35:53,360 --> 00:35:55,680 Speaker 3: to go up and down the stairs, you know, go 623 00:35:56,280 --> 00:35:58,799 Speaker 3: up and down, wasting energy going that way. But then 624 00:35:58,840 --> 00:36:03,360 Speaker 3: also the upper floors have this external white stucco to 625 00:36:03,520 --> 00:36:06,320 Speaker 3: help reflect solar radiation and help keep them cool. 626 00:36:07,160 --> 00:36:09,400 Speaker 2: I love I love this detail about the skybridge because this, 627 00:36:09,560 --> 00:36:13,000 Speaker 2: like this lines up with the basic rationale for skybridges 628 00:36:13,040 --> 00:36:16,880 Speaker 2: in the age of skyscrapers, and this sort of you know, 629 00:36:17,040 --> 00:36:21,960 Speaker 2: forward thinking futuristic idea that like, well, life is going 630 00:36:22,000 --> 00:36:24,439 Speaker 2: to be up there now and we need to move 631 00:36:24,480 --> 00:36:28,560 Speaker 2: around up there building to building, And this is an 632 00:36:28,600 --> 00:36:33,120 Speaker 2: example of it not really being a thoroughly futuristic idea 633 00:36:33,160 --> 00:36:36,759 Speaker 2: at all, Like it's it's ultimately a much older, even 634 00:36:36,800 --> 00:36:40,359 Speaker 2: ancient idea at least in places where you had tall 635 00:36:40,400 --> 00:36:41,080 Speaker 2: buildings like this. 636 00:36:41,800 --> 00:36:43,279 Speaker 3: Or maybe you could say it has been part of 637 00:36:43,320 --> 00:36:46,400 Speaker 3: a smart, progressive technological framework for ages. 638 00:36:46,960 --> 00:36:50,239 Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I think so, because I imagine imagine like 639 00:36:50,880 --> 00:36:53,799 Speaker 2: coming to this city centuries ago, you know, and just 640 00:36:53,840 --> 00:36:56,520 Speaker 2: how modern and advanced, it would be like this was 641 00:36:56,560 --> 00:36:58,439 Speaker 2: like the blade Runner city of the day. 642 00:37:00,120 --> 00:37:03,239 Speaker 3: Now a lot of the city's architecture centers around helping 643 00:37:03,320 --> 00:37:06,319 Speaker 3: to deal with extreme heat. So one advantage of having 644 00:37:06,400 --> 00:37:08,800 Speaker 3: tall buildings close together is that it really helps to 645 00:37:08,840 --> 00:37:12,640 Speaker 3: provide shade within the city. Buildings also have a lot 646 00:37:12,680 --> 00:37:15,799 Speaker 3: of windows to aid in ventilation, especially near the top, 647 00:37:15,880 --> 00:37:19,440 Speaker 3: letting hot air out. But they also like the doors 648 00:37:19,520 --> 00:37:23,520 Speaker 3: in these buildings, many of them are carved wooden doors 649 00:37:24,080 --> 00:37:28,160 Speaker 3: that will have like these beautiful geometric patterns carved into them, 650 00:37:28,160 --> 00:37:30,799 Speaker 3: but they will have openings in the wood of the 651 00:37:30,840 --> 00:37:34,440 Speaker 3: doors again to allow ventilation, you know, natural airflow through. 652 00:37:35,000 --> 00:37:37,240 Speaker 3: And also in the city. I was watching one video 653 00:37:37,280 --> 00:37:41,560 Speaker 3: documentary about it that showed the city still having some 654 00:37:42,320 --> 00:37:46,880 Speaker 3: very old school wooden locks, so like locks on doors 655 00:37:46,920 --> 00:37:50,239 Speaker 3: that you would open by having a wooden paddle that 656 00:37:50,360 --> 00:37:53,440 Speaker 3: has a particular arrangement of pegs poking up off of it, 657 00:37:53,520 --> 00:37:55,399 Speaker 3: So you can reach the wooden paddle into the lock 658 00:37:55,400 --> 00:37:57,359 Speaker 3: hole and you press it up and if it has 659 00:37:57,400 --> 00:38:01,080 Speaker 3: the right arrangement of pegs, it lifts the what do 660 00:38:01,080 --> 00:38:03,239 Speaker 3: they call the lifts the little tumblers, I guess, and 661 00:38:03,280 --> 00:38:06,720 Speaker 3: then the lock opens Some buildings in the city also 662 00:38:06,760 --> 00:38:12,080 Speaker 3: have wooden mashrabias, which are if you don't know what 663 00:38:12,080 --> 00:38:15,640 Speaker 3: that is, it's sort of like a wooden, enclosed but 664 00:38:15,840 --> 00:38:20,680 Speaker 3: ventilated deck area sort of, I don't know the correct 665 00:38:20,719 --> 00:38:23,000 Speaker 3: way to describe it. Look it up, look up pictures 666 00:38:23,040 --> 00:38:26,360 Speaker 3: of them. There are these beautiful external features that you 667 00:38:26,400 --> 00:38:28,920 Speaker 3: see on a lot of buildings throughout the Islamic world. 668 00:38:29,360 --> 00:38:31,840 Speaker 2: You know, coming back to what you said earlier about 669 00:38:31,840 --> 00:38:35,920 Speaker 2: the setbacks in the design, the idea that you know, 670 00:38:35,920 --> 00:38:38,680 Speaker 2: they taper inward and there's kind of a terracing as 671 00:38:38,719 --> 00:38:41,239 Speaker 2: they go up. And of course this applies to more 672 00:38:41,280 --> 00:38:44,440 Speaker 2: than just mud brick buildings, but you know, thicker at 673 00:38:44,440 --> 00:38:48,920 Speaker 2: the bottom less mass towards the top. You know. This 674 00:38:49,440 --> 00:38:53,520 Speaker 2: makes me think of setbacks in like a modern city 675 00:38:53,600 --> 00:38:57,040 Speaker 2: environment like New York City, where even when you get 676 00:38:57,040 --> 00:39:00,920 Speaker 2: to the point where you don't need the setbacks from 677 00:39:00,960 --> 00:39:05,560 Speaker 2: a structural standpoint, setbacks end up being desired. You know, 678 00:39:05,680 --> 00:39:08,680 Speaker 2: well for I guess a couple of reasons. One just esthetically, 679 00:39:08,760 --> 00:39:12,120 Speaker 2: but also uh, you put these setback laws in place 680 00:39:12,200 --> 00:39:16,400 Speaker 2: because you don't want to create the just like depths 681 00:39:16,560 --> 00:39:19,400 Speaker 2: of shadow where the sun never shines, you know, you 682 00:39:19,480 --> 00:39:22,319 Speaker 2: want there to be sort of more open sky in 683 00:39:22,440 --> 00:39:27,320 Speaker 2: these these ravines between the skyscrapers. And yet also, you 684 00:39:27,360 --> 00:39:30,160 Speaker 2: know you touched on with with this city that you know, 685 00:39:30,280 --> 00:39:32,959 Speaker 2: to a certain extent, those wells of shadow are also 686 00:39:33,040 --> 00:39:36,280 Speaker 2: desired because you want to create to create some additional 687 00:39:36,400 --> 00:39:39,680 Speaker 2: escape from the overbearing power of the sun. 688 00:39:40,320 --> 00:39:42,479 Speaker 3: Yeah, that's right. So I guess again there are trade 689 00:39:42,480 --> 00:39:47,400 Speaker 3: offs there. As you know, building building materials and architecture 690 00:39:47,440 --> 00:39:50,040 Speaker 3: really is a story of trade offs, isn't it. Yeah. 691 00:39:50,160 --> 00:39:53,680 Speaker 3: I don't know if that's a banal observation, I just 692 00:39:53,960 --> 00:39:55,080 Speaker 3: it just occurred to me. 693 00:39:55,480 --> 00:39:59,239 Speaker 2: Well, I think the banal becomes the spectacular when you 694 00:39:59,320 --> 00:40:03,080 Speaker 2: start looking at examples like this that turn our understanding 695 00:40:03,600 --> 00:40:09,239 Speaker 2: of skyscrapers and modern urban environments on their head by 696 00:40:09,320 --> 00:40:12,839 Speaker 2: placing them in in a much older setting and a 697 00:40:12,840 --> 00:40:18,080 Speaker 2: different environment than we're used to contending with. So it's yeah, 698 00:40:18,480 --> 00:40:20,160 Speaker 2: such a fascinating model to look at. 699 00:40:20,600 --> 00:40:22,920 Speaker 3: Now. One last thing is I was reading about some 700 00:40:23,800 --> 00:40:29,480 Speaker 3: threats to this beautiful architectural heritage recently due to weather 701 00:40:29,640 --> 00:40:34,799 Speaker 3: and especially due to conflict in Yemen, leading to difficulty 702 00:40:34,840 --> 00:40:38,360 Speaker 3: and performing the upkeep necessary to keep these buildings standing 703 00:40:38,400 --> 00:40:41,920 Speaker 3: and all that there was apparently a tropical cyclone in 704 00:40:41,960 --> 00:40:45,080 Speaker 3: two thousand and eight that caused a lot of flooding 705 00:40:45,200 --> 00:40:48,839 Speaker 3: and damage to buildings in Shabam. And also I think 706 00:40:49,120 --> 00:40:53,759 Speaker 3: there are some other settlements in the same region that 707 00:40:53,840 --> 00:40:57,080 Speaker 3: have some similar construction and architecture in them that are 708 00:40:57,120 --> 00:41:00,520 Speaker 3: also under threat due to flooding and weather and just 709 00:41:01,280 --> 00:41:03,880 Speaker 3: lack of ability to perform the necessary upkeep. So I 710 00:41:03,920 --> 00:41:08,240 Speaker 3: know there are some restoration and maintenance projects that are underway. 711 00:41:08,280 --> 00:41:11,319 Speaker 3: I think UNESCO might be involved in something going on there, 712 00:41:11,719 --> 00:41:14,160 Speaker 3: But it would be a shame to see this beautiful 713 00:41:14,200 --> 00:41:17,680 Speaker 3: and ingenious architectural tradition, which is in a way it's 714 00:41:17,680 --> 00:41:20,120 Speaker 3: a tradition that's ongoing because of the upkeep you always 715 00:41:20,120 --> 00:41:24,279 Speaker 3: have to do to keep these buildings alive to see 716 00:41:24,280 --> 00:41:24,960 Speaker 3: that go away. 717 00:41:25,120 --> 00:41:28,239 Speaker 2: So yeah, now we also want to stress though that 718 00:41:28,280 --> 00:41:32,120 Speaker 2: of course, this is just one of the phenomenal examples 719 00:41:32,160 --> 00:41:35,840 Speaker 2: of mud brick based architecture you can find throughout the world. 720 00:41:36,160 --> 00:41:40,480 Speaker 2: Like I said earlier, structures made out of mud brick 721 00:41:40,560 --> 00:41:43,480 Speaker 2: are still common throughout North Africa and beyond North Africa, 722 00:41:44,000 --> 00:41:46,200 Speaker 2: but this one really kind of stood out to us 723 00:41:45,920 --> 00:41:49,400 Speaker 2: as something worth highlighting and just showing like what is 724 00:41:49,440 --> 00:41:53,480 Speaker 2: and was possible with mud brick. So, anyway you have 725 00:41:53,520 --> 00:41:57,120 Speaker 2: a particular favorite, or if you've visited a city or 726 00:41:57,200 --> 00:42:03,319 Speaker 2: an archaeological site that features impressive mud brick construction, right in, 727 00:42:03,960 --> 00:42:05,760 Speaker 2: let us know. We'd love to hear from you and 728 00:42:05,480 --> 00:42:09,080 Speaker 2: we can talk about it in a future listener mail episode. Now, 729 00:42:09,120 --> 00:42:13,200 Speaker 2: as for mud as a whole, our multi part look 730 00:42:13,280 --> 00:42:16,000 Speaker 2: at Mud, I think we're going to go at least 731 00:42:16,040 --> 00:42:18,319 Speaker 2: one more episode here. We're going to come back a 732 00:42:18,320 --> 00:42:21,560 Speaker 2: little bit too, mud and warfare. We're going to talk 733 00:42:21,560 --> 00:42:24,960 Speaker 2: about mud volcanoes and who knows what else. There may 734 00:42:24,960 --> 00:42:27,479 Speaker 2: be another mud angle that we don't even know about 735 00:42:27,560 --> 00:42:30,320 Speaker 2: yet because it is yet to emerge through our research, 736 00:42:30,960 --> 00:42:33,960 Speaker 2: so make sure you tune in for that on Tuesday. 737 00:42:34,040 --> 00:42:37,200 Speaker 2: I mangine a reminder that our core episodes of Stuff 738 00:42:37,239 --> 00:42:39,840 Speaker 2: to Blil Your Mind published on Tuesdays and Thursdays, and 739 00:42:39,840 --> 00:42:41,960 Speaker 2: the Stuff to Bulil your Mind podcast feed. We have 740 00:42:43,200 --> 00:42:46,120 Speaker 2: Let's see listener mails on Mondays, we have short form 741 00:42:46,200 --> 00:42:48,879 Speaker 2: artifactor Monster Fact on Wednesdays, and on Fridays, we set 742 00:42:48,920 --> 00:42:51,160 Speaker 2: aside most serious concerns to just talk about a strange 743 00:42:51,200 --> 00:42:53,279 Speaker 2: movie on Weird House Cinema. 744 00:42:52,840 --> 00:42:56,359 Speaker 3: Huge thanks to our excellent audio producer, JJ Posway. If 745 00:42:56,360 --> 00:42:57,880 Speaker 3: you would like to get in touch with us with 746 00:42:57,920 --> 00:43:00,279 Speaker 3: feedback on this episode or any other tues, just a 747 00:43:00,360 --> 00:43:02,759 Speaker 3: topic for the future, or just to say hello, you 748 00:43:02,800 --> 00:43:05,360 Speaker 3: can email us at contact at stuff to Blow your 749 00:43:05,440 --> 00:43:13,759 Speaker 3: Mind dot com. 750 00:43:13,800 --> 00:43:16,759 Speaker 1: Stuff to Blow Your Mind is production of iHeartRadio. For 751 00:43:16,840 --> 00:43:19,600 Speaker 1: more podcasts from my heart Radio, visit the iHeartRadio app, 752 00:43:19,760 --> 00:43:36,759 Speaker 1: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you're listening to your favorite shows.