1 00:00:00,880 --> 00:00:06,200 Speaker 1: Welcome to zero. I am Akshatrati. This week Presidents, Billionaires 2 00:00:06,200 --> 00:00:07,280 Speaker 1: and power. 3 00:00:20,520 --> 00:00:20,720 Speaker 2: Back. 4 00:00:20,720 --> 00:00:23,520 Speaker 1: In twenty twenty, nearly thirty people competed to be the 5 00:00:23,600 --> 00:00:28,200 Speaker 1: Democratic nominee for president, all hoping to go against Donald Trump. 6 00:00:29,000 --> 00:00:32,000 Speaker 1: One of them was Tom Stire. He spent ten million 7 00:00:32,040 --> 00:00:34,680 Speaker 1: dollars of his own money on ads to drum up 8 00:00:34,680 --> 00:00:38,440 Speaker 1: support to impeach Donald Trump, and then over the course 9 00:00:38,520 --> 00:00:42,320 Speaker 1: of his presidential campaign, spent hundreds of millions of dollars more. 10 00:00:43,159 --> 00:00:45,879 Speaker 2: Join us and tell your member of Congress that they 11 00:00:45,880 --> 00:00:49,479 Speaker 2: have a moral responsibility to stop doing what's political and 12 00:00:49,560 --> 00:00:50,640 Speaker 2: start doing what's right. 13 00:00:51,760 --> 00:00:55,960 Speaker 1: Long story shot, Styre dropped out, Trump lost, and Joe 14 00:00:56,000 --> 00:01:00,560 Speaker 1: Biden became president. But Stire was not just any billionaire 15 00:01:00,640 --> 00:01:04,640 Speaker 1: frustrated with Trump. He entered the race with significant fundraising 16 00:01:04,680 --> 00:01:09,160 Speaker 1: experience for Barack Obama, Hillary Clinton, and also from many 17 00:01:09,280 --> 00:01:13,640 Speaker 1: environmental causes. He started a political group, Next Gen, that 18 00:01:13,720 --> 00:01:17,240 Speaker 1: focuses on getting young people to vote for Democrats and 19 00:01:17,480 --> 00:01:21,560 Speaker 1: environmental candidates. Tom's wealth comes from his decades as a 20 00:01:21,600 --> 00:01:26,280 Speaker 1: hedge fund manager at Farallon Capital, which specialized in distressed assets, 21 00:01:26,680 --> 00:01:30,160 Speaker 1: assets that people often sell at below market price for 22 00:01:30,360 --> 00:01:34,039 Speaker 1: quick cash. Some of his investments were in big fossil 23 00:01:34,040 --> 00:01:38,679 Speaker 1: fuel projects. Tom left Parallon Capital in twenty twelve before 24 00:01:38,680 --> 00:01:43,880 Speaker 1: becoming a full time environmental activist and political donor. After 25 00:01:43,920 --> 00:01:47,080 Speaker 1: the presidential campaign. In twenty twenty one, he announced a 26 00:01:47,120 --> 00:01:52,080 Speaker 1: return to finance through Galvanized Climate Solutions. In September, Galvanis 27 00:01:52,120 --> 00:01:55,160 Speaker 1: announced it had raised one billion dollars for its Innovation 28 00:01:55,360 --> 00:01:58,800 Speaker 1: and Expansion Fund, which is designed to invest in companies 29 00:01:59,080 --> 00:02:03,000 Speaker 1: that would have an immediate impact on reducing emissions. I 30 00:02:03,040 --> 00:02:05,720 Speaker 1: spoke with Tom at COP twenty eighth in December to 31 00:02:05,760 --> 00:02:09,120 Speaker 1: ask why he got out of fossil fuels, the consequences 32 00:02:09,240 --> 00:02:12,240 Speaker 1: of bad carbon accounting, and what the return of Donald 33 00:02:12,280 --> 00:02:28,760 Speaker 1: Trump would mean for global climate ambitions. Tom, welcome to 34 00:02:28,800 --> 00:02:29,120 Speaker 1: the show. 35 00:02:29,160 --> 00:02:30,280 Speaker 2: Thank you so much for having me. 36 00:02:30,520 --> 00:02:34,360 Speaker 1: Your history coming into climate has been as an investor, 37 00:02:35,000 --> 00:02:36,639 Speaker 1: and a lot of the money that you made when 38 00:02:36,639 --> 00:02:39,760 Speaker 1: you ran in your hedge fund Firelong Capital was through 39 00:02:40,240 --> 00:02:43,640 Speaker 1: things like constructing a four thousand acre coal mine in 40 00:02:43,680 --> 00:02:46,520 Speaker 1: New South Wales. You've since left that firm and you've 41 00:02:46,560 --> 00:02:50,640 Speaker 1: sold off your fossil fuel assets. But what prompted you 42 00:02:50,960 --> 00:02:54,680 Speaker 1: to go from making money with fossil fuel assets to 43 00:02:54,760 --> 00:02:56,000 Speaker 1: being a climate guy. 44 00:02:56,160 --> 00:02:59,000 Speaker 2: Well, let me say this. We invested in pharilhan in 45 00:02:59,080 --> 00:03:03,480 Speaker 2: every industry, including fossil fuels. We were not fossil fuel investors. 46 00:03:03,840 --> 00:03:07,240 Speaker 2: We were generalist investors across the board. In fact, I 47 00:03:07,280 --> 00:03:09,400 Speaker 2: went back and looked, because of questions like that, to 48 00:03:09,440 --> 00:03:12,359 Speaker 2: see what percentage of our investments and income came from 49 00:03:12,360 --> 00:03:15,359 Speaker 2: fossil fuels, and it was substantially less than fossil fuels 50 00:03:15,440 --> 00:03:18,240 Speaker 2: is a percent of industry, either in the United States 51 00:03:18,320 --> 00:03:21,239 Speaker 2: or the world. But the truth is, starting in about 52 00:03:22,360 --> 00:03:25,160 Speaker 2: two thousand and six, as a result of a trip 53 00:03:25,200 --> 00:03:28,239 Speaker 2: to Alaska, I really got a chance to see physically 54 00:03:28,480 --> 00:03:31,480 Speaker 2: what climate change looks like. And I made a decision, 55 00:03:31,480 --> 00:03:33,320 Speaker 2: and our whole family made a decision that we were 56 00:03:33,360 --> 00:03:35,960 Speaker 2: going to actually try and go after it. And so, 57 00:03:36,080 --> 00:03:39,119 Speaker 2: starting in two thousand and six, I went through a 58 00:03:39,240 --> 00:03:45,280 Speaker 2: series of revelations about what was necessary to do, what 59 00:03:45,400 --> 00:03:49,400 Speaker 2: was possible to do, and what was critical to do. 60 00:03:49,840 --> 00:03:51,600 Speaker 2: And part of it, of course, was getting rid of 61 00:03:51,640 --> 00:03:55,520 Speaker 2: all my fossil fuel assets, you know, more than a 62 00:03:55,560 --> 00:03:58,760 Speaker 2: decade ago. But really what it really was about is 63 00:03:58,840 --> 00:04:02,760 Speaker 2: not so much of avoiding those problems. It's really about 64 00:04:02,800 --> 00:04:07,120 Speaker 2: I say, it's not about devestment, it's about investment at 65 00:04:07,120 --> 00:04:09,360 Speaker 2: this point. Really, what we have to do is make 66 00:04:09,400 --> 00:04:11,880 Speaker 2: this transition. And so it's really a question of there's 67 00:04:11,880 --> 00:04:14,280 Speaker 2: going to be some big emitting industries which are going 68 00:04:14,320 --> 00:04:17,160 Speaker 2: to be a critical part of decarbonization because they're going 69 00:04:17,200 --> 00:04:19,279 Speaker 2: to have to change their supply chains. So I look 70 00:04:19,279 --> 00:04:23,960 Speaker 2: at this honestly, for everybody in the world, including you 71 00:04:24,040 --> 00:04:28,000 Speaker 2: and me, we've all participated in a fossil fuel economy. 72 00:04:28,160 --> 00:04:31,640 Speaker 2: I certainly have, and I think what's necessary to recognize 73 00:04:31,720 --> 00:04:34,440 Speaker 2: is that's an economy which really can't continue to exist, 74 00:04:34,600 --> 00:04:36,880 Speaker 2: and so we have to figure out how to make 75 00:04:36,920 --> 00:04:39,320 Speaker 2: the transition in a way that's best for the people 76 00:04:39,320 --> 00:04:39,840 Speaker 2: of this plane. 77 00:04:40,080 --> 00:04:43,440 Speaker 1: Well, we continue to participate in the fossil fuel economy 78 00:04:43,480 --> 00:04:47,440 Speaker 1: because sometimes, well oftentimes we don't have the alternatives ready. 79 00:04:47,600 --> 00:04:51,480 Speaker 1: We are here talking in Dubai, having flown from our 80 00:04:51,520 --> 00:04:53,120 Speaker 1: relative homes to this. 81 00:04:53,120 --> 00:04:56,479 Speaker 2: This is the biggest emitting airport in the world. 82 00:04:56,560 --> 00:05:00,440 Speaker 1: Indeed, and so in September galvanized and now is that 83 00:05:00,560 --> 00:05:03,840 Speaker 1: it closes its Innovation and Expansion Fund, which will invest 84 00:05:03,839 --> 00:05:07,520 Speaker 1: in startups aiming to provide climate benefits in the next decade. 85 00:05:07,720 --> 00:05:10,960 Speaker 1: Which companies have you invested in and why are you 86 00:05:11,000 --> 00:05:11,880 Speaker 1: excited about them? 87 00:05:12,200 --> 00:05:14,960 Speaker 2: So we've invested in about fifteen companies so far. I'd 88 00:05:15,000 --> 00:05:18,120 Speaker 2: like to talk about a couple of them. In every case, 89 00:05:18,720 --> 00:05:21,280 Speaker 2: what we're trying to do is invest in companies that 90 00:05:21,400 --> 00:05:24,640 Speaker 2: can scale to meet a global problem, and in many 91 00:05:24,680 --> 00:05:28,080 Speaker 2: cases we're in places where the problem is not the 92 00:05:28,120 --> 00:05:31,280 Speaker 2: one that is the most obvious to everybody looking at climate. So, 93 00:05:31,320 --> 00:05:34,720 Speaker 2: for instance, we invested in a company called Regrow, which 94 00:05:34,800 --> 00:05:39,080 Speaker 2: really gives information to consumer package good companies, food companies 95 00:05:39,400 --> 00:05:42,200 Speaker 2: about their supply chains so they can know actually what 96 00:05:42,240 --> 00:05:45,320 Speaker 2: the emissions profiles are of the supply chains of the 97 00:05:45,320 --> 00:05:47,359 Speaker 2: people who are growing the food, so they can figure 98 00:05:47,360 --> 00:05:49,720 Speaker 2: out how to clean it up. From a scope three standpoint, 99 00:05:50,240 --> 00:05:54,359 Speaker 2: this is an information based process. Agriculture is a critical 100 00:05:54,400 --> 00:05:58,440 Speaker 2: part of the solution and the problem in climate emissions, 101 00:05:58,800 --> 00:06:02,039 Speaker 2: and therefore having the information and making it available to 102 00:06:02,080 --> 00:06:04,839 Speaker 2: the people who are really the end customers is something 103 00:06:04,880 --> 00:06:07,120 Speaker 2: that we consider has to happen and has to happen 104 00:06:07,120 --> 00:06:08,000 Speaker 2: in the next decade. 105 00:06:08,040 --> 00:06:09,880 Speaker 1: And you said a couple of examples, so. 106 00:06:09,880 --> 00:06:11,320 Speaker 2: Let me give you another one. One of the hard 107 00:06:11,320 --> 00:06:15,039 Speaker 2: to abate sectors is concrete and cement and that's a 108 00:06:15,120 --> 00:06:20,200 Speaker 2: worldwide industry produces about eight percent of emissions. It's one 109 00:06:20,240 --> 00:06:25,280 Speaker 2: that has been very resistant to improvement. And what we're 110 00:06:25,320 --> 00:06:28,440 Speaker 2: doing there is once again using information on a real 111 00:06:28,480 --> 00:06:31,880 Speaker 2: time basis to change the mix of the cement and 112 00:06:31,920 --> 00:06:34,600 Speaker 2: concrete without weakening it in any way, shape or form, 113 00:06:35,120 --> 00:06:39,760 Speaker 2: making it less expensive to produce, and also reducing emissions 114 00:06:39,800 --> 00:06:42,320 Speaker 2: by up to fifty percent. So when we look at 115 00:06:42,320 --> 00:06:45,880 Speaker 2: these in every case, what our opinion is you have 116 00:06:46,000 --> 00:06:50,360 Speaker 2: to be able to provide a better, cheaper, faster product 117 00:06:50,360 --> 00:06:53,960 Speaker 2: in the marketplace that people will choose for its own sake, 118 00:06:54,320 --> 00:06:56,600 Speaker 2: which also dramatically reduces emissions. 119 00:06:57,040 --> 00:06:59,680 Speaker 1: Over the past five years, we've seen a number of 120 00:06:59,680 --> 00:07:04,000 Speaker 1: clients funds launched, especially investing in startups, and that's been 121 00:07:04,720 --> 00:07:07,640 Speaker 1: really important for startups to get going. There's been a 122 00:07:07,720 --> 00:07:10,840 Speaker 1: crowding in of capital, there's been a crowding in of ideas. 123 00:07:11,320 --> 00:07:15,440 Speaker 1: But you're also doing something different beyond the traditional investing 124 00:07:15,560 --> 00:07:20,000 Speaker 1: in startups. You are getting into real estate. You're going 125 00:07:20,080 --> 00:07:24,920 Speaker 1: to as I understand by billions of dollars worth of assets. 126 00:07:24,920 --> 00:07:30,040 Speaker 1: Maybe they're housing students, maybe they're warehouses, and you're going 127 00:07:30,080 --> 00:07:33,600 Speaker 1: to make them more energy efficient and you're somehow going 128 00:07:33,640 --> 00:07:34,480 Speaker 1: to make money from it. 129 00:07:34,440 --> 00:07:38,160 Speaker 2: Yes, we are. I mean this is a classic brown 130 00:07:38,360 --> 00:07:42,360 Speaker 2: to green move that literally no one in the United 131 00:07:42,360 --> 00:07:43,200 Speaker 2: States is doing. 132 00:07:43,480 --> 00:07:45,600 Speaker 1: So how is it classic though, Because. 133 00:07:45,280 --> 00:07:48,840 Speaker 2: What you're really doing is making investments to clean up 134 00:07:48,880 --> 00:07:51,280 Speaker 2: the emissions profile of a building, which, as you said, 135 00:07:51,320 --> 00:07:54,080 Speaker 2: could be a warehouse, it could be a manufacturing facility, 136 00:07:54,120 --> 00:07:58,360 Speaker 2: it could be student housing. So you're making investments to 137 00:07:58,440 --> 00:08:01,800 Speaker 2: clean up its emissions pro file, which will indeed save 138 00:08:01,840 --> 00:08:05,480 Speaker 2: it money and increase its net operating income, make people 139 00:08:05,600 --> 00:08:09,760 Speaker 2: more likely to want to rent it, therefore increase your income, 140 00:08:09,880 --> 00:08:13,000 Speaker 2: get a higher multiple when you leave, and make more 141 00:08:13,040 --> 00:08:15,560 Speaker 2: money as a result of it. And we need to 142 00:08:15,600 --> 00:08:18,920 Speaker 2: do that to show other people in the built environment 143 00:08:19,160 --> 00:08:22,080 Speaker 2: that doing this is a way to add return on 144 00:08:22,240 --> 00:08:25,400 Speaker 2: an annual basis in a measurable and important amount. 145 00:08:25,520 --> 00:08:27,200 Speaker 1: Have you already bought those assets? 146 00:08:27,480 --> 00:08:30,560 Speaker 2: We have just done our first close as a matter 147 00:08:30,600 --> 00:08:33,880 Speaker 2: of fact, I believe last month, and that gives us 148 00:08:33,880 --> 00:08:37,080 Speaker 2: the ability to start closing assets. I don't know how 149 00:08:37,120 --> 00:08:41,040 Speaker 2: much the people listening to this podcast know about American 150 00:08:41,080 --> 00:08:44,440 Speaker 2: real estate, but American real estate is in huge flux 151 00:08:44,920 --> 00:08:47,679 Speaker 2: as a result of the increased interest rates in the 152 00:08:47,760 --> 00:08:50,400 Speaker 2: United States, and so as a result, what we're seeing 153 00:08:50,880 --> 00:08:54,640 Speaker 2: is the beginning of a huge supply demand imbalance where 154 00:08:54,679 --> 00:08:56,320 Speaker 2: a lot of people are going to be forced to 155 00:08:56,480 --> 00:08:58,839 Speaker 2: sell and there are very few people with the money 156 00:08:58,840 --> 00:09:01,000 Speaker 2: to buy. So we believe it's a very good time 157 00:09:01,200 --> 00:09:04,520 Speaker 2: from a market standpoint. We're looking at a number of 158 00:09:04,720 --> 00:09:10,480 Speaker 2: what we think are unusually anomalously attractive situations with much 159 00:09:10,520 --> 00:09:13,559 Speaker 2: bigger spreads to the curve because people are forced to sell. 160 00:09:13,920 --> 00:09:18,280 Speaker 2: We're probably in serious negotiation on about seven properties around 161 00:09:18,280 --> 00:09:19,040 Speaker 2: the United States. 162 00:09:19,240 --> 00:09:21,920 Speaker 1: What you said you're doing with your real estate assets 163 00:09:22,080 --> 00:09:25,200 Speaker 1: is trying to show that you can actually make money great. 164 00:09:25,160 --> 00:09:28,080 Speaker 2: More money, make more money from around that it's more 165 00:09:28,160 --> 00:09:30,600 Speaker 2: profitable to do the clean thing. 166 00:09:30,720 --> 00:09:32,760 Speaker 1: But that's the case yet to be proven. What's the 167 00:09:32,840 --> 00:09:36,280 Speaker 1: case that you have proven that would allow you to 168 00:09:36,640 --> 00:09:39,360 Speaker 1: buy into this idea, which would be climate capitalism. 169 00:09:39,679 --> 00:09:43,920 Speaker 2: I started Galvanize with my old partner and old friend 170 00:09:44,000 --> 00:09:47,560 Speaker 2: Katie Hall Catherine Hall, to basically do a series of 171 00:09:47,600 --> 00:09:51,760 Speaker 2: investment activities all around impact. We have an impact team 172 00:09:51,800 --> 00:09:55,040 Speaker 2: that looks at every single investment before we make it, 173 00:09:55,080 --> 00:09:57,839 Speaker 2: monitors it after we make it to prove that in fact, 174 00:09:57,960 --> 00:10:01,080 Speaker 2: it is making a difference in in terms of emissions. 175 00:10:01,800 --> 00:10:06,400 Speaker 2: But long before Katie and I started Galvanized Climate Solutions, 176 00:10:07,080 --> 00:10:11,199 Speaker 2: I had been investing in clean energy really for it 177 00:10:11,880 --> 00:10:14,680 Speaker 2: at least a decade. So in fact, when I was 178 00:10:14,760 --> 00:10:18,439 Speaker 2: looking at this, I know that what is called clean 179 00:10:18,520 --> 00:10:21,120 Speaker 2: tech one point zero had a lot of issues. But 180 00:10:21,240 --> 00:10:24,720 Speaker 2: two things happened. A we did really well and B 181 00:10:25,520 --> 00:10:28,040 Speaker 2: if you look around the world and you look at 182 00:10:28,960 --> 00:10:33,760 Speaker 2: what's happened to clean energy compared to fossil fuel energy 183 00:10:33,760 --> 00:10:37,080 Speaker 2: in terms of costs, you can see that whereas people 184 00:10:37,160 --> 00:10:40,080 Speaker 2: seem to think that solar and wind is more expensive 185 00:10:40,600 --> 00:10:43,800 Speaker 2: than natural gas or diesel, in fact it's much cheaper. 186 00:10:44,400 --> 00:10:46,760 Speaker 2: And we've seen the cost of storage go down by 187 00:10:46,880 --> 00:10:49,760 Speaker 2: ninety percent and it'll go down another ninety percent. So 188 00:10:50,040 --> 00:10:51,920 Speaker 2: when you say what's going to make it work, our 189 00:10:51,960 --> 00:10:55,199 Speaker 2: attitude is people are going to buy things that are cheaper, 190 00:10:55,240 --> 00:10:55,880 Speaker 2: better and faster. 191 00:10:56,240 --> 00:11:00,760 Speaker 1: Another area you've invested in is in carbon accounting. There 192 00:11:00,840 --> 00:11:04,839 Speaker 1: is a whole mess around carbon accounting on corporate emissions 193 00:11:04,960 --> 00:11:08,040 Speaker 1: because the way you count them their different scopes. They 194 00:11:08,080 --> 00:11:10,640 Speaker 1: scope one, which is direct emissions from your own assets 195 00:11:10,679 --> 00:11:13,800 Speaker 1: burning natural gas in your building. Scope two, if somebody 196 00:11:13,880 --> 00:11:17,280 Speaker 1: is burning natural gas for you and providing electricity or 197 00:11:17,320 --> 00:11:21,080 Speaker 1: scope three, which is essentially anything that your company touches. 198 00:11:21,679 --> 00:11:25,160 Speaker 1: There's been an increase in the amount of disclosures that 199 00:11:25,280 --> 00:11:28,840 Speaker 1: companies have made voluntarily in some parts of the world, 200 00:11:28,920 --> 00:11:33,280 Speaker 1: including in California. There are now regulations coming in to 201 00:11:33,400 --> 00:11:37,319 Speaker 1: require that companies tell the public how much they emit 202 00:11:37,400 --> 00:11:40,280 Speaker 1: on all of those scopes. It's happening in the UK, 203 00:11:40,360 --> 00:11:43,120 Speaker 1: it's happening in New Zealand. The EU at some point 204 00:11:43,160 --> 00:11:45,600 Speaker 1: will come up with its own rules. But how far 205 00:11:45,880 --> 00:11:51,080 Speaker 1: does just disclosure take you? Because it's not like financial accounting. 206 00:11:51,480 --> 00:11:56,400 Speaker 1: If a company commits financial accounting fraud, they pay huge 207 00:11:56,400 --> 00:11:59,319 Speaker 1: fines and sometimes even go to jail. With carbon accounting, 208 00:12:00,000 --> 00:12:02,360 Speaker 1: none of that exists right now. We're only at the 209 00:12:02,360 --> 00:12:07,560 Speaker 1: phase of requiring disclosures, and even there it's only really California. 210 00:12:07,679 --> 00:12:10,800 Speaker 2: So can I correct you? Yes, what California is requiring 211 00:12:11,000 --> 00:12:14,040 Speaker 2: is that every company that does business in California, the 212 00:12:14,080 --> 00:12:16,959 Speaker 2: fourth largest economy in the world yep, that does more 213 00:12:17,000 --> 00:12:20,520 Speaker 2: than a billion dollars worth of annual revenues anywhere, has 214 00:12:20,559 --> 00:12:24,360 Speaker 2: to report there in California. No a billion dollars of 215 00:12:24,400 --> 00:12:28,280 Speaker 2: revenues anywhere in the world combined. So that's I think 216 00:12:28,320 --> 00:12:32,480 Speaker 2: about five thousand companies. Right, then you have to report 217 00:12:32,559 --> 00:12:35,200 Speaker 2: through Scope three. And when you think about it, so 218 00:12:35,240 --> 00:12:39,200 Speaker 2: you're right, you say, Okay, there's no enforcement mechanism for 219 00:12:39,280 --> 00:12:43,640 Speaker 2: people who lie, but for starters. You're forcing people to 220 00:12:43,800 --> 00:12:48,920 Speaker 2: actually understand for themselves what the emissions profile are is 221 00:12:49,240 --> 00:12:52,880 Speaker 2: of everything that they touch. So, from my standpoint, the 222 00:12:52,960 --> 00:12:59,559 Speaker 2: ability to measure in a reliable way disclose and enable 223 00:12:59,840 --> 00:13:01,840 Speaker 2: all all the good think you know, all the people 224 00:13:01,880 --> 00:13:04,640 Speaker 2: who want to do this from a good standpoint, including 225 00:13:04,760 --> 00:13:08,559 Speaker 2: the managers of the company, the people who are outside 226 00:13:08,600 --> 00:13:10,520 Speaker 2: the company but want to see what's going on. So, 227 00:13:10,559 --> 00:13:13,000 Speaker 2: for instance, if you and I each had a factory 228 00:13:13,280 --> 00:13:15,600 Speaker 2: opposite sides of the street, and yours was very clean 229 00:13:15,800 --> 00:13:18,280 Speaker 2: and mine was very dirty, then everybody in our neighborhood 230 00:13:18,280 --> 00:13:20,640 Speaker 2: and everybody around the world can see that I'm not 231 00:13:20,679 --> 00:13:22,840 Speaker 2: doing a good job and you are. And then, third 232 00:13:22,840 --> 00:13:27,839 Speaker 2: of all, it enables policy in terms of certainly accounting, 233 00:13:27,920 --> 00:13:31,640 Speaker 2: but much beyond that in terms of border adjustment and ability. 234 00:13:31,760 --> 00:13:34,679 Speaker 2: Since this is basically, if you'll excuse my saying, so, 235 00:13:35,520 --> 00:13:39,520 Speaker 2: an accounting flaw that people are allowed to pollute without 236 00:13:39,559 --> 00:13:42,720 Speaker 2: paying for their pollution. Ye all this says is okay, 237 00:13:42,840 --> 00:13:47,040 Speaker 2: now we know what your pollution is, sir. What we 238 00:13:47,160 --> 00:13:50,480 Speaker 2: choose to do with that is definitely up in the air. 239 00:13:50,520 --> 00:13:54,040 Speaker 2: But until we know, we don't have any ability to 240 00:13:54,040 --> 00:13:55,440 Speaker 2: do any of the things I described. 241 00:13:55,600 --> 00:13:58,840 Speaker 1: Now. One topic that's being talked about is blended finance, 242 00:13:59,040 --> 00:14:02,760 Speaker 1: which is the idea where different types of capital, philanthropic capital, 243 00:14:03,200 --> 00:14:08,120 Speaker 1: government grants loans from multilateral development banks de risk a 244 00:14:08,120 --> 00:14:11,240 Speaker 1: project in developing country, and then private capital can come through. 245 00:14:11,880 --> 00:14:14,400 Speaker 1: You've signed the giving pledge, which is you're going to 246 00:14:14,440 --> 00:14:15,760 Speaker 1: give all your wealth away. 247 00:14:16,400 --> 00:14:18,680 Speaker 2: I believe the pledge is actually half oh sorry for 248 00:14:18,720 --> 00:14:21,160 Speaker 2: what it's worth, but I think the actual answer will 249 00:14:21,160 --> 00:14:21,800 Speaker 2: be more than that. 250 00:14:22,440 --> 00:14:26,160 Speaker 1: But sorry, sorry. It says the majority of your wealthy, 251 00:14:26,280 --> 00:14:29,440 Speaker 1: right majority. You've signed the giving Pledge, which says that 252 00:14:29,480 --> 00:14:31,880 Speaker 1: you're going to give the majority of your wealth away. 253 00:14:32,320 --> 00:14:35,360 Speaker 1: Have you considered using some of that to try and 254 00:14:36,560 --> 00:14:39,920 Speaker 1: speed up the transition in developing countries, which is where 255 00:14:40,120 --> 00:14:42,280 Speaker 1: currently the need is the greatest. 256 00:14:42,720 --> 00:14:44,400 Speaker 2: So let's just take a step back. I mean, I 257 00:14:44,440 --> 00:14:51,040 Speaker 2: think the basic rule of climate responsibility is the less 258 00:14:51,080 --> 00:14:53,560 Speaker 2: responsible you are for the problem, the more you're going 259 00:14:53,640 --> 00:14:58,200 Speaker 2: to suffer. And so what you're directly alluding to is 260 00:14:58,240 --> 00:15:01,720 Speaker 2: the fact that the global South by and large, has 261 00:15:02,080 --> 00:15:07,320 Speaker 2: emitted a fraction of the greenhouse gases that are causing 262 00:15:07,320 --> 00:15:10,600 Speaker 2: this problem and is suffering disproportionately, so that, for instance, 263 00:15:10,640 --> 00:15:12,320 Speaker 2: I'm not sure of the exact numbers, but I know 264 00:15:12,360 --> 00:15:16,520 Speaker 2: that Pakistan, a third of whom the population of was 265 00:15:16,560 --> 00:15:19,840 Speaker 2: displaced by a gigantic flood, had emitted way less than 266 00:15:19,880 --> 00:15:23,320 Speaker 2: one percent of all the emissions since this began. I 267 00:15:23,320 --> 00:15:24,920 Speaker 2: mean I heard the numbers as low as one tenth 268 00:15:24,960 --> 00:15:29,280 Speaker 2: of one percent. So that's shockingly unfair, obviously. And so 269 00:15:29,360 --> 00:15:32,200 Speaker 2: the question is, how are we in fact going to 270 00:15:32,320 --> 00:15:36,480 Speaker 2: deal with the cost the direct costs of the climate 271 00:15:36,520 --> 00:15:38,440 Speaker 2: crisis in the developing world, and how are we going 272 00:15:38,480 --> 00:15:41,280 Speaker 2: to enable the developing world to actually be part of 273 00:15:41,320 --> 00:15:44,800 Speaker 2: the solution and to be I'm talking about making money 274 00:15:44,920 --> 00:15:47,160 Speaker 2: and solving a problem, and how are we going to 275 00:15:47,200 --> 00:15:51,840 Speaker 2: make sure that the developing world participates in that opportunity. 276 00:15:52,160 --> 00:15:54,920 Speaker 2: So let's discuss a couple of things. One of them 277 00:15:55,120 --> 00:15:58,160 Speaker 2: is what's really going on in the developing world. So, 278 00:15:58,280 --> 00:16:04,280 Speaker 2: for instance, in eighty six percent of the net new 279 00:16:04,440 --> 00:16:10,280 Speaker 2: electricity generation capacity was actually clean was renewable. The issue 280 00:16:10,320 --> 00:16:14,640 Speaker 2: here is not really about the project, it's not really 281 00:16:14,760 --> 00:16:18,120 Speaker 2: about the cash flows. It's really about sovereign risk. And 282 00:16:18,160 --> 00:16:22,080 Speaker 2: so I know people talk about blended finance, and I 283 00:16:22,120 --> 00:16:25,040 Speaker 2: know that they look at all those different levels and 284 00:16:25,080 --> 00:16:29,480 Speaker 2: they think that they can in effect provide cheap first 285 00:16:29,520 --> 00:16:32,920 Speaker 2: loss money from governments or nonprofits and that that will 286 00:16:32,920 --> 00:16:36,600 Speaker 2: make it worth it for the people who are providing 287 00:16:36,720 --> 00:16:42,480 Speaker 2: the private sector equity finance riskier finance. But the truth is, 288 00:16:42,680 --> 00:16:46,360 Speaker 2: in my opinion, the critical part is to take away 289 00:16:46,400 --> 00:16:50,360 Speaker 2: that sovereign risk, which goes through another that shows up 290 00:16:50,360 --> 00:16:52,360 Speaker 2: in a number of different ways, and I've lived all 291 00:16:52,400 --> 00:16:55,680 Speaker 2: of them, I promise you. But that is really the 292 00:16:55,760 --> 00:16:57,680 Speaker 2: issue where if, in fact, I don't care if it's 293 00:16:57,720 --> 00:17:01,080 Speaker 2: the World Bank or a government or the United Nations 294 00:17:01,480 --> 00:17:03,800 Speaker 2: can take away that risk, then we just get back 295 00:17:03,800 --> 00:17:06,280 Speaker 2: to the project, and then we just get back to 296 00:17:06,320 --> 00:17:08,719 Speaker 2: the cash flows. And that is a place where private 297 00:17:08,760 --> 00:17:13,600 Speaker 2: industry can be very aggressive when it comes to sovereign risk. 298 00:17:13,840 --> 00:17:16,960 Speaker 2: If you think about it, when something goes wrong in 299 00:17:16,960 --> 00:17:19,639 Speaker 2: a country, everything gets hurted, and it's not like the 300 00:17:19,680 --> 00:17:21,760 Speaker 2: fact that there's first loss money is going to make 301 00:17:21,800 --> 00:17:23,960 Speaker 2: you better. Yeah, the first loss, money's gone, so you. 302 00:17:26,440 --> 00:17:29,359 Speaker 1: After the break. While the youth vote is key to 303 00:17:29,520 --> 00:17:40,760 Speaker 1: US climate policy, we are less than a year away 304 00:17:40,760 --> 00:17:45,480 Speaker 1: from another US election, and pulls, you know, twelve months out. 305 00:17:45,920 --> 00:17:48,040 Speaker 1: I don't know how much to believe them, but do 306 00:17:48,160 --> 00:17:51,400 Speaker 1: suggest that Trump has a real chance of getting re elected. 307 00:17:52,119 --> 00:17:57,600 Speaker 1: What would trump victory mean for progress on climate given 308 00:17:57,960 --> 00:17:59,760 Speaker 1: the past four years under your. 309 00:17:59,720 --> 00:18:03,159 Speaker 2: Wide Well, I know that what you're driving at is 310 00:18:04,080 --> 00:18:09,240 Speaker 2: the idea that mister Trump, in a second term as president, 311 00:18:09,800 --> 00:18:13,720 Speaker 2: would go after the Inflation Reduction Act, would go after 312 00:18:13,920 --> 00:18:16,800 Speaker 2: all of the climate related policies, And in fact, the 313 00:18:16,840 --> 00:18:21,240 Speaker 2: Heritage Foundation wrote up a long profile of exactly how 314 00:18:21,240 --> 00:18:25,760 Speaker 2: to go after every climate related government investment and program. 315 00:18:26,119 --> 00:18:29,480 Speaker 2: So I think that is a starting place for what 316 00:18:29,480 --> 00:18:31,800 Speaker 2: people worry about. But I actually don't think that's the 317 00:18:31,880 --> 00:18:36,879 Speaker 2: biggest risk. I think the real risk here is that 318 00:18:37,600 --> 00:18:41,080 Speaker 2: for us all, not just Americans, but people around the 319 00:18:41,119 --> 00:18:44,800 Speaker 2: globe to come together and solve this problem, we basically 320 00:18:44,840 --> 00:18:47,040 Speaker 2: have to acknowledge not just that we have a problem, 321 00:18:47,040 --> 00:18:49,200 Speaker 2: but that we have to solve it together. I think 322 00:18:49,240 --> 00:18:52,600 Speaker 2: the biggest problem with mister Trump would be that as 323 00:18:52,640 --> 00:18:59,000 Speaker 2: he moves much more towards a selfish autocracy trying to 324 00:18:59,320 --> 00:19:05,320 Speaker 2: literally raw walls around the United States as well as figuratively. 325 00:19:06,640 --> 00:19:08,680 Speaker 2: That sends a message to the rest of the world 326 00:19:08,680 --> 00:19:11,840 Speaker 2: to do the same. Since this is a global problem. 327 00:19:12,080 --> 00:19:15,919 Speaker 2: If we decide every country is in it for itself 328 00:19:16,080 --> 00:19:20,800 Speaker 2: only itself and has no interest in participating together and 329 00:19:20,840 --> 00:19:26,359 Speaker 2: working together, that shoots a hole in everything we're trying 330 00:19:26,359 --> 00:19:27,040 Speaker 2: to accomplish. 331 00:19:27,119 --> 00:19:31,000 Speaker 1: And yet the US in general has been a problem 332 00:19:31,320 --> 00:19:33,560 Speaker 1: for the world when it comes to climate When the 333 00:19:33,600 --> 00:19:36,840 Speaker 1: world has been united on trying to do something about it, 334 00:19:36,880 --> 00:19:40,439 Speaker 1: the US has in the past been the exception. So 335 00:19:40,480 --> 00:19:43,159 Speaker 1: it does matter. I agree that the global risk of 336 00:19:43,880 --> 00:19:49,879 Speaker 1: a more protectionist world is a big one, and of 337 00:19:49,920 --> 00:19:52,320 Speaker 1: course we're talking at a time when the US has 338 00:19:52,400 --> 00:19:55,600 Speaker 1: just hit a new record on oil and gas. 339 00:19:55,440 --> 00:19:58,080 Speaker 2: Production, biggest oil and gas producer in the world. Correct 340 00:19:58,240 --> 00:20:01,919 Speaker 2: highly aware it will also point out to you that 341 00:20:02,000 --> 00:20:05,960 Speaker 2: what I consider to be the most significant cop achievement 342 00:20:06,920 --> 00:20:11,919 Speaker 2: was probably the Paris Accords twenty fifteen, which really began 343 00:20:12,640 --> 00:20:16,639 Speaker 2: a year earlier with a direct bilateral agreement between the 344 00:20:16,760 --> 00:20:20,480 Speaker 2: US and China, then the US and India, then US 345 00:20:20,640 --> 00:20:23,840 Speaker 2: and Mexico. So in fact, what I was trying to 346 00:20:23,880 --> 00:20:27,840 Speaker 2: say to you, was it's really critical in this that 347 00:20:27,920 --> 00:20:30,320 Speaker 2: the US be part of the solution, you're saying, Tom, 348 00:20:30,359 --> 00:20:33,320 Speaker 2: When they aren't part of the solution, it really sucks. Yes, yes, check, 349 00:20:34,200 --> 00:20:37,400 Speaker 2: I got that, and that was my voyt. Yes. When 350 00:20:37,440 --> 00:20:41,359 Speaker 2: the US is part of the solution, then people feel 351 00:20:41,359 --> 00:20:45,520 Speaker 2: like everybody's linking arms and dragging together. When the US 352 00:20:45,600 --> 00:20:49,359 Speaker 2: pulls back and says no, we have oil and gas interests, 353 00:20:49,560 --> 00:20:52,960 Speaker 2: we have coal interests, we're in it for ourselves, good luck, 354 00:20:54,040 --> 00:20:56,600 Speaker 2: everybody else says the exact same thing, and the world 355 00:20:56,680 --> 00:20:59,760 Speaker 2: can't progress. That's why I said to me, the biggest 356 00:20:59,800 --> 00:21:03,159 Speaker 2: risk isn't the IRA. To me, the biggest risk is 357 00:21:03,200 --> 00:21:08,400 Speaker 2: how we relate as countries, both bilaterally and across the board. 358 00:21:08,560 --> 00:21:11,320 Speaker 1: You have used your money to try and move the 359 00:21:11,359 --> 00:21:15,240 Speaker 1: ball on climate, and so what are you doing to ensure, 360 00:21:15,520 --> 00:21:18,679 Speaker 1: regardless of the political outcome over the next twelve months, 361 00:21:18,960 --> 00:21:23,960 Speaker 1: that the gains made on climate stay continuous and maybe grow. 362 00:21:24,200 --> 00:21:26,440 Speaker 2: Well. Look, so, first of all, there are two things 363 00:21:26,440 --> 00:21:29,240 Speaker 2: that I believe in that scale around this problem. One 364 00:21:29,280 --> 00:21:32,720 Speaker 2: is government, which I've just made a long, impassioned argument for, 365 00:21:32,800 --> 00:21:35,439 Speaker 2: which basically sets the rules. You know, when you were 366 00:21:35,480 --> 00:21:38,119 Speaker 2: saying why even measure it? It's like you measure it, 367 00:21:38,160 --> 00:21:40,159 Speaker 2: so you're going to have a framework to actually manage 368 00:21:40,200 --> 00:21:42,600 Speaker 2: it in a policy way as well as in a 369 00:21:42,800 --> 00:21:46,080 Speaker 2: corporate way. So that's one thing we can definitely do. 370 00:21:46,160 --> 00:21:47,480 Speaker 2: And the other thing that we can do is we 371 00:21:47,520 --> 00:21:51,040 Speaker 2: can really drive down costs and provide better, cheaper, faster 372 00:21:51,119 --> 00:21:53,320 Speaker 2: stuff that happens to be clean. So what am I 373 00:21:53,359 --> 00:21:57,640 Speaker 2: doing about it? For one thing, I believe that when 374 00:21:57,680 --> 00:22:01,560 Speaker 2: you look at US elections over the last decade, the 375 00:22:02,200 --> 00:22:07,399 Speaker 2: critical factor about who wins is youth turnout. People between 376 00:22:07,400 --> 00:22:09,879 Speaker 2: the ages of eighteen and thirty five, biggest generation in 377 00:22:09,880 --> 00:22:13,760 Speaker 2: American history, most diverse generation in American history, most progressive 378 00:22:13,760 --> 00:22:16,240 Speaker 2: generation in American history, voting at half the rates of 379 00:22:16,240 --> 00:22:19,679 Speaker 2: other Americans when they turn out progressives. When when they 380 00:22:19,680 --> 00:22:22,520 Speaker 2: don't turn out progressive louse period the act. 381 00:22:22,359 --> 00:22:25,720 Speaker 1: And currently the polls say, given what's happening in Israel, and. 382 00:22:26,800 --> 00:22:31,440 Speaker 2: So we started the largest youth registration and engagement organization 383 00:22:31,520 --> 00:22:35,800 Speaker 2: in American history in twenty thirteen, which still remains the 384 00:22:35,920 --> 00:22:40,959 Speaker 2: largest youth registration engagement history organization in American history. I 385 00:22:41,000 --> 00:22:43,919 Speaker 2: know what the polls say. Believe me, I understand we 386 00:22:44,040 --> 00:22:47,480 Speaker 2: probably generate those polls to be exact. So I'm very 387 00:22:47,520 --> 00:22:50,760 Speaker 2: concerned about how this will turn out for a variety 388 00:22:50,800 --> 00:22:54,840 Speaker 2: of reasons. But I believe this is a very progressive generation. 389 00:22:55,320 --> 00:22:58,800 Speaker 2: I believe that we will get back to a place 390 00:22:58,880 --> 00:23:02,800 Speaker 2: where Democrats' win seventy percent of those votes. And if 391 00:23:02,800 --> 00:23:05,960 Speaker 2: that's true and we go over fifty percent turnout, we're 392 00:23:05,960 --> 00:23:06,360 Speaker 2: going to win. 393 00:23:06,680 --> 00:23:11,280 Speaker 1: You held a fundraising event for Joe Biden recently. How 394 00:23:11,320 --> 00:23:14,120 Speaker 1: much of your own money are you giving to Democrat 395 00:23:14,160 --> 00:23:15,320 Speaker 1: candidates over the next year. 396 00:23:15,640 --> 00:23:17,600 Speaker 2: First off, of course, I don't know, but that's not 397 00:23:17,640 --> 00:23:20,879 Speaker 2: really what I'm doing politically. What I'm doing politically is 398 00:23:20,920 --> 00:23:24,160 Speaker 2: trying to make sure that we have a representative democracy, 399 00:23:24,160 --> 00:23:27,000 Speaker 2: including young people. And to me, if we get a 400 00:23:27,000 --> 00:23:30,840 Speaker 2: fair turnout of people across the board, I believe that 401 00:23:30,840 --> 00:23:33,080 Speaker 2: we'll get the right answer. I really do. And I 402 00:23:33,080 --> 00:23:37,240 Speaker 2: think that the issue here is not about convincing people. 403 00:23:38,800 --> 00:23:41,200 Speaker 2: It is really not. It is really a question of 404 00:23:41,560 --> 00:23:44,520 Speaker 2: are we It's who shows up to vote. I mean 405 00:23:44,720 --> 00:23:47,080 Speaker 2: in the United States, I always whenever people are talking 406 00:23:47,080 --> 00:23:49,879 Speaker 2: about persuasion, I would say, to let me ask you 407 00:23:49,880 --> 00:23:53,680 Speaker 2: one question, have you ever persuaded one Trump voter? To 408 00:23:53,760 --> 00:23:54,800 Speaker 2: flip one time. 409 00:23:56,000 --> 00:23:58,400 Speaker 1: Well, this is the other question I wanted to ask. 410 00:23:58,440 --> 00:24:02,359 Speaker 1: Then I know that kind the politics in America is 411 00:24:02,400 --> 00:24:06,080 Speaker 1: polarized and polarizing, and I don't know how far apart 412 00:24:06,320 --> 00:24:10,680 Speaker 1: it continues to go. But there are still some Republicans 413 00:24:10,720 --> 00:24:14,080 Speaker 1: who get it, who understand climate change. 414 00:24:14,640 --> 00:24:17,120 Speaker 2: Okay, just so you know, there's a as I mean, 415 00:24:17,160 --> 00:24:20,080 Speaker 2: I may in fact follow this more closely than you do. Yes, 416 00:24:20,600 --> 00:24:25,400 Speaker 2: there's a Pew report out earlier this week which basically said, Look, 417 00:24:25,520 --> 00:24:29,680 Speaker 2: Republicans know climate change if you ask them. Somewhere, depending 418 00:24:29,680 --> 00:24:32,080 Speaker 2: on how you ask the question, between mid fifties and 419 00:24:32,119 --> 00:24:37,480 Speaker 2: mid seventies of registered Republicans acknowledge climate change, acknowledge its 420 00:24:37,560 --> 00:24:40,080 Speaker 2: human cause, and would like to move to clean energy. 421 00:24:40,960 --> 00:24:44,480 Speaker 2: Check that's not how American politics works. Yes, if you 422 00:24:44,640 --> 00:24:47,760 Speaker 2: ask Democrats is this important issue? By and large, they 423 00:24:47,840 --> 00:24:50,080 Speaker 2: say yes, and a pretty high number of them say 424 00:24:50,080 --> 00:24:52,719 Speaker 2: it's a critical issue. If you ask Republicans if this 425 00:24:52,760 --> 00:24:55,880 Speaker 2: is an important issue, they say absolutely not. It's our 426 00:24:56,040 --> 00:25:02,680 Speaker 2: nineteenth issue. So the fact that they agree is one point, 427 00:25:02,920 --> 00:25:05,359 Speaker 2: but they don't vote on it. And if you don't 428 00:25:05,480 --> 00:25:08,080 Speaker 2: vote on it, then it doesn't matter to the person 429 00:25:08,080 --> 00:25:11,320 Speaker 2: who's running for office. And that means that the other 430 00:25:11,520 --> 00:25:15,119 Speaker 2: things that matter around an issue are the things that 431 00:25:15,160 --> 00:25:17,479 Speaker 2: actually determine what office holders do. And let me use 432 00:25:17,480 --> 00:25:21,000 Speaker 2: an example that's not climate I think something like ninety 433 00:25:21,040 --> 00:25:25,280 Speaker 2: percent of Americans would like to have much stricter gun rolls. 434 00:25:25,960 --> 00:25:28,280 Speaker 2: We're all sick of it. We all get it, everyone 435 00:25:28,320 --> 00:25:31,400 Speaker 2: gets it. Most hardly any of that ninety percent votes 436 00:25:31,400 --> 00:25:33,399 Speaker 2: on it. Of the ten percent to disagree, they all 437 00:25:33,480 --> 00:25:35,760 Speaker 2: vote on it. So if you're running for office, you 438 00:25:35,800 --> 00:25:37,320 Speaker 2: sit there and go like, Okay, I can get ten 439 00:25:37,359 --> 00:25:41,480 Speaker 2: percent for free and lose nothing, or I can do 440 00:25:41,560 --> 00:25:44,919 Speaker 2: the right thing and lose ten percent. We don't have 441 00:25:44,920 --> 00:25:45,639 Speaker 2: good gun roles. 442 00:25:45,720 --> 00:25:48,439 Speaker 1: But going back to the Inflation Reduction Act, one of 443 00:25:48,480 --> 00:25:51,439 Speaker 1: the things that's baked into it, which is the money 444 00:25:51,480 --> 00:25:55,320 Speaker 1: it gives out largely is going to Republican states. Have 445 00:25:55,440 --> 00:25:58,040 Speaker 1: you been working with some of these Republicans to ensure 446 00:25:58,080 --> 00:26:00,000 Speaker 1: that the money that they are getting will be more 447 00:26:00,320 --> 00:26:03,640 Speaker 1: that they can continue to get, that they will continue 448 00:26:03,680 --> 00:26:07,359 Speaker 1: to use the Inflation Reduction Act and not destroy it. 449 00:26:07,640 --> 00:26:10,359 Speaker 2: Look, the experience of people on in American politics is 450 00:26:11,720 --> 00:26:16,200 Speaker 2: that when a plant goes into their district, they support 451 00:26:16,280 --> 00:26:21,600 Speaker 2: the plant no matter what including clean tech plants, including 452 00:26:22,160 --> 00:26:26,879 Speaker 2: EV plants in very very conservative red states. So do 453 00:26:26,920 --> 00:26:29,280 Speaker 2: I believe that they're actually going to yank everything from 454 00:26:29,320 --> 00:26:32,320 Speaker 2: the inflation? No? You ask me what am I worried about, 455 00:26:32,320 --> 00:26:35,520 Speaker 2: and I told you global cooperation. Am I. I didn't 456 00:26:35,520 --> 00:26:40,280 Speaker 2: say anything about IRA because from my standpoint, by the 457 00:26:40,359 --> 00:26:43,400 Speaker 2: time we get there, it will be largely baked in 458 00:26:43,400 --> 00:26:45,480 Speaker 2: in terms of the deployment aspects. 459 00:26:45,640 --> 00:26:48,680 Speaker 1: Now, there are things in politics that are sometimes not said. 460 00:26:48,920 --> 00:26:50,720 Speaker 1: A lot of said, but sometimes things are not. 461 00:26:50,800 --> 00:26:51,680 Speaker 2: Settings are not said. 462 00:26:52,240 --> 00:26:54,639 Speaker 1: You know Joe Biden very well. What do you think 463 00:26:54,800 --> 00:26:57,920 Speaker 1: is a thing that he hasn't said that you wish 464 00:26:58,000 --> 00:27:00,360 Speaker 1: he would have said or you would say for him? 465 00:27:00,640 --> 00:27:04,280 Speaker 2: The issue with Joe Biden running for president in twenty 466 00:27:04,320 --> 00:27:07,320 Speaker 2: four is all about his age. You know. I think 467 00:27:07,359 --> 00:27:10,000 Speaker 2: when people look at the job that he's done, they 468 00:27:10,000 --> 00:27:12,640 Speaker 2: will say, by and large, he's been an excellent president 469 00:27:13,080 --> 00:27:17,479 Speaker 2: that across the board he has actually produced, you know, 470 00:27:18,000 --> 00:27:20,760 Speaker 2: very very well, put together a really good team, make 471 00:27:20,880 --> 00:27:23,960 Speaker 2: good decisions. The economy is doing well. I think the 472 00:27:24,040 --> 00:27:28,080 Speaker 2: issue with President Biden is that people are worried about 473 00:27:28,119 --> 00:27:30,720 Speaker 2: and the Republicans go after him in terms of his 474 00:27:31,520 --> 00:27:34,240 Speaker 2: being old and I can say this having spent some 475 00:27:34,280 --> 00:27:38,080 Speaker 2: time with him. He's very smart. People do not understand. 476 00:27:38,400 --> 00:27:41,040 Speaker 2: There is no doubt in my mind that intellectually he 477 00:27:41,119 --> 00:27:44,760 Speaker 2: is just fine. He has never been somebody who's been 478 00:27:44,800 --> 00:27:47,560 Speaker 2: a great public speaker, and I think that people therefore 479 00:27:47,640 --> 00:27:50,920 Speaker 2: take that and suggest that he's not a good thinker. 480 00:27:51,160 --> 00:27:52,920 Speaker 2: But I think if you spend any time with him personally, 481 00:27:52,920 --> 00:27:55,320 Speaker 2: you realize, oh my god, this guy's sharp, honest to goodness, 482 00:27:55,400 --> 00:27:59,480 Speaker 2: and that's what I think. He can't say that, but 483 00:27:59,640 --> 00:28:00,520 Speaker 2: that is the truth. 484 00:28:00,760 --> 00:28:03,720 Speaker 1: So bringing this back to Galvanized, then you're looking for 485 00:28:03,800 --> 00:28:08,160 Speaker 1: near term impact. You're only just started, like fifteen companies. 486 00:28:08,600 --> 00:28:11,040 Speaker 2: Well, we're doing it, but as you said, we're doing 487 00:28:11,119 --> 00:28:13,840 Speaker 2: a number of different investment activities and we're going to 488 00:28:14,000 --> 00:28:15,000 Speaker 2: keep doing more. 489 00:28:15,119 --> 00:28:17,320 Speaker 1: But what is it that you hope you would have 490 00:28:17,400 --> 00:28:20,040 Speaker 1: achieved by the end of this decade with Galvanized. 491 00:28:20,320 --> 00:28:22,600 Speaker 2: I would hope that what we're doing is that we're 492 00:28:22,680 --> 00:28:26,680 Speaker 2: a serious financial player. Every single investment has real impact, 493 00:28:26,920 --> 00:28:30,000 Speaker 2: and we can measure that impact, and we want to 494 00:28:30,040 --> 00:28:32,720 Speaker 2: do that in a number of areas to show that. 495 00:28:32,840 --> 00:28:35,840 Speaker 2: In fact, this is the way that people seem to 496 00:28:35,840 --> 00:28:38,320 Speaker 2: think that there's a trade off between impact and returns. 497 00:28:38,480 --> 00:28:40,360 Speaker 2: We want to prove the opposite. I think the oil 498 00:28:40,400 --> 00:28:42,040 Speaker 2: and gas industry makes about two and a half trillion 499 00:28:42,080 --> 00:28:44,880 Speaker 2: dollars a year. They get one and a half trillion 500 00:28:44,920 --> 00:28:48,560 Speaker 2: dollars of hard subsities. If you inclose indirect subsidies, they 501 00:28:48,560 --> 00:28:51,440 Speaker 2: get seven trillion dollars a year. It's like we're a 502 00:28:51,520 --> 00:28:55,760 Speaker 2: place where the lines have crossed, the lines have cossed, 503 00:28:55,800 --> 00:28:59,000 Speaker 2: and we're not even charging for pollution. The smart money 504 00:28:59,040 --> 00:29:01,440 Speaker 2: is moving away from oil and gas. The smart money 505 00:29:01,480 --> 00:29:04,960 Speaker 2: is moving to the future of a much cleaner, more 506 00:29:05,240 --> 00:29:06,120 Speaker 2: sustainable world. 507 00:29:06,120 --> 00:29:08,880 Speaker 1: And in your own journey, what would be the places 508 00:29:08,920 --> 00:29:13,760 Speaker 1: where you would check yourself, where you may have a 509 00:29:13,760 --> 00:29:16,560 Speaker 1: time horizon and you may want to evaluate whether what 510 00:29:16,600 --> 00:29:19,200 Speaker 1: you're doing is working, whether it's paying off. 511 00:29:19,200 --> 00:29:21,560 Speaker 2: I've been working on climate for more than fifteen years. 512 00:29:22,280 --> 00:29:24,920 Speaker 2: I spent eight years making no money, but in fact 513 00:29:25,000 --> 00:29:28,200 Speaker 2: pouring money into the idea of changing the way Americans 514 00:29:28,200 --> 00:29:30,320 Speaker 2: thought about climate and trying to get us to win 515 00:29:30,400 --> 00:29:33,320 Speaker 2: the argument so that in fact we wouldn't be disappointing 516 00:29:33,360 --> 00:29:35,840 Speaker 2: you when we went to different cops around the world. 517 00:29:35,840 --> 00:29:38,960 Speaker 2: But we're showing up with vigor and gusto to do 518 00:29:39,040 --> 00:29:41,239 Speaker 2: the right thing, and I've been trying to show that. 519 00:29:41,360 --> 00:29:43,200 Speaker 2: Now we're at the execution phase where we have to 520 00:29:43,200 --> 00:29:46,240 Speaker 2: get it done. So is there anything that is going 521 00:29:46,280 --> 00:29:50,920 Speaker 2: to prevent me from continuing on that journey? I guess 522 00:29:51,000 --> 00:29:54,560 Speaker 2: either I could die or we'd win. Either of those 523 00:29:54,600 --> 00:29:55,560 Speaker 2: would make me stop. 524 00:29:56,480 --> 00:30:07,280 Speaker 1: Thank you, tom My Pleasure. Thank you for listening to Zero. 525 00:30:07,440 --> 00:30:09,560 Speaker 1: If you liked this episode, please take a moment to 526 00:30:09,680 --> 00:30:13,360 Speaker 1: rate or review on Apple Podcasts and Spotify. Share this 527 00:30:13,400 --> 00:30:16,440 Speaker 1: episode with a friend or a hedge fund billionaire. You 528 00:30:16,520 --> 00:30:19,120 Speaker 1: can get in touch at zero pod at Bloomberg dot net. 529 00:30:19,920 --> 00:30:22,680 Speaker 1: The producer of this episode is Oscar Boyd and senior 530 00:30:22,680 --> 00:30:26,600 Speaker 1: producer is Christine driscoll Our. Theme music is composed by 531 00:30:26,600 --> 00:30:30,360 Speaker 1: wonder Lee. Special thanks to Kira Bindram, Tiffany Choi, and 532 00:30:30,440 --> 00:30:33,640 Speaker 1: Todd Woody. I'm Makshatrati back next week.