1 00:00:04,400 --> 00:00:07,440 Speaker 1: There's always some tension in every trial. This one, I 2 00:00:07,480 --> 00:00:09,520 Speaker 1: would say, is an eight and a half or nine 3 00:00:09,520 --> 00:00:14,200 Speaker 1: out of ten huge shop. I've seen let all over 4 00:00:14,240 --> 00:00:18,040 Speaker 1: his face. The bullet ended up in the frontal lobe 5 00:00:18,079 --> 00:00:21,000 Speaker 1: of the brain. I mean, there's a lot of stake 6 00:00:21,040 --> 00:00:24,200 Speaker 1: here for both sides. On the one side, the prosecution 7 00:00:24,440 --> 00:00:28,000 Speaker 1: is overseeing the most expensive, most complex trial in the 8 00:00:28,040 --> 00:00:31,400 Speaker 1: history of Ohio, and on the other hand, defense is 9 00:00:31,400 --> 00:00:35,000 Speaker 1: trying to save a guy's life. So no matter how 10 00:00:35,080 --> 00:00:44,280 Speaker 1: you slice this, it is still life and death. This 11 00:00:44,479 --> 00:00:50,040 Speaker 1: is the Pikedon Massacre Season four, Episode four, Devil in 12 00:00:50,080 --> 00:00:56,000 Speaker 1: the Details. I'm Courtney Armstrong, a television producer at KAT Studios. 13 00:00:56,040 --> 00:00:59,560 Speaker 1: With Stephanie Leidecker and Jeff Shane. We've been following this 14 00:00:59,640 --> 00:01:02,400 Speaker 1: case closely for almost five years, and it's surreal to 15 00:01:02,400 --> 00:01:04,760 Speaker 1: see it all begin to unravel in a brick red 16 00:01:04,840 --> 00:01:08,880 Speaker 1: nineteenth century courthouse on Second Street in Waverley, Ohio, a 17 00:01:08,920 --> 00:01:12,759 Speaker 1: cozy town of four thousand on the Sciota River. It's 18 00:01:12,800 --> 00:01:15,720 Speaker 1: important to note that George Wagner, the fourth who's currently 19 00:01:15,760 --> 00:01:18,959 Speaker 1: on trial, has pleaded not guilty and has maintained he 20 00:01:19,040 --> 00:01:24,039 Speaker 1: did not kill anyone. His father, Billy Wagner, whose trial 21 00:01:24,080 --> 00:01:27,720 Speaker 1: is upcoming, has also pleaded not guilty to all charges. 22 00:01:29,440 --> 00:01:32,039 Speaker 1: George Wagner the Fourth says he has absolutely nothing to 23 00:01:32,080 --> 00:01:34,800 Speaker 1: do with the eight murders his brother, Jake and mother 24 00:01:34,840 --> 00:01:38,960 Speaker 1: Angela have pled guilty to. But the prosecution believes they 25 00:01:38,959 --> 00:01:41,120 Speaker 1: can put George Wagner the Fourth at the scene of 26 00:01:41,120 --> 00:01:43,959 Speaker 1: the killings, or at least prove he was part of 27 00:01:44,000 --> 00:01:49,360 Speaker 1: the murder conspiracy. Soon, Jake Wagner and Angela Wagner will 28 00:01:49,400 --> 00:01:53,880 Speaker 1: take the stand against their family. Here's reporter James Pilcher. 29 00:01:54,520 --> 00:01:59,080 Speaker 1: It depends on how believable the jury finds Jake and 30 00:01:59,160 --> 00:02:04,960 Speaker 1: Angela and is it possible that he was free? Absolutely 31 00:02:05,000 --> 00:02:09,760 Speaker 1: as possible. You never can tell. Jake has previously testified 32 00:02:09,800 --> 00:02:12,959 Speaker 1: that George Wagner did not kill anyone. What he and 33 00:02:13,040 --> 00:02:16,160 Speaker 1: his mother Angela will say on the stand is anyone's guess. 34 00:02:17,600 --> 00:02:23,320 Speaker 1: Here's Stephanie and Jeff. Keep in mind, the prosecution believes 35 00:02:23,360 --> 00:02:26,240 Speaker 1: that they can put George Wagner the Fourth at the 36 00:02:26,240 --> 00:02:28,880 Speaker 1: scene of the killings, or at least they feel they 37 00:02:28,919 --> 00:02:31,320 Speaker 1: can prove that he was part of the murder conspiracy. 38 00:02:31,800 --> 00:02:36,560 Speaker 1: Prosecutor Angie Kinneppa. You'll remember agreed in December twenty twenty 39 00:02:36,600 --> 00:02:42,640 Speaker 1: one's hearing that George Wagner the Fourth didn't kill anybody. However, 40 00:02:42,760 --> 00:02:45,880 Speaker 1: unique to the state of Ohio, someone can be sentenced 41 00:02:45,919 --> 00:02:49,560 Speaker 1: to death for an aggravated murder conviction, and Steph It's 42 00:02:49,560 --> 00:02:52,120 Speaker 1: an interesting distinction that we really want to make clear 43 00:02:52,440 --> 00:02:55,760 Speaker 1: because it means that you can be convicted even if 44 00:02:55,840 --> 00:02:58,840 Speaker 1: all you did was help plan or cover up the crimes. 45 00:02:59,200 --> 00:03:02,280 Speaker 1: Jake and Angela have been proven to be liars in 46 00:03:02,320 --> 00:03:06,000 Speaker 1: the past. Remember after the murders they claimed their innocence 47 00:03:06,360 --> 00:03:09,640 Speaker 1: and then years later, of course, changed their story, So 48 00:03:09,680 --> 00:03:15,440 Speaker 1: why should we believe them now. Pike County Sheriff Tracy 49 00:03:15,520 --> 00:03:18,720 Speaker 1: Evans chose not to be recorded while testifying, which is 50 00:03:18,800 --> 00:03:21,920 Speaker 1: rare for an elected official. We do know Evans told 51 00:03:21,960 --> 00:03:24,760 Speaker 1: jurors he was the one who determined Dana Rodin had 52 00:03:24,760 --> 00:03:27,440 Speaker 1: been shot to death after removing a blanket and pillow 53 00:03:27,480 --> 00:03:30,520 Speaker 1: that was covering her head. One key witness who agreed 54 00:03:30,520 --> 00:03:33,880 Speaker 1: to be recorded was Miranda Cable, a registered nurse and 55 00:03:33,960 --> 00:03:36,720 Speaker 1: paramedic who responded to the call at Frankie Rodin and 56 00:03:36,800 --> 00:03:40,320 Speaker 1: Hannah Gilly's house. She's one of the first responders to 57 00:03:40,360 --> 00:03:45,080 Speaker 1: testify about the crime scenes. Initially, Cable thought it was 58 00:03:45,120 --> 00:03:49,040 Speaker 1: a domestic violence dispute where somebody was possibly killed. She 59 00:03:49,120 --> 00:03:51,760 Speaker 1: was then directed to a second location, where she learned 60 00:03:51,760 --> 00:03:54,640 Speaker 1: there were only to seize people on the scene. She 61 00:03:54,720 --> 00:03:57,680 Speaker 1: then returned to Hannah Gilly and Frankie Roden's house, where 62 00:03:57,680 --> 00:04:01,200 Speaker 1: the couple was found brutally slaughtered. Their six month old 63 00:04:01,200 --> 00:04:05,160 Speaker 1: baby had been discovered alive covered in their blood. We 64 00:04:05,160 --> 00:04:08,400 Speaker 1: were asked to go back to the first residence to 65 00:04:08,600 --> 00:04:13,240 Speaker 1: transport a child. And do you know that child's name? Yes, 66 00:04:13,320 --> 00:04:19,000 Speaker 1: it was Rody. Okay. To protect the children's identities, we 67 00:04:19,000 --> 00:04:22,119 Speaker 1: will beep the use of any miners' names used in court. 68 00:04:23,320 --> 00:04:27,240 Speaker 1: Do you know how old Rodin was at that time? 69 00:04:27,520 --> 00:04:32,200 Speaker 1: Six months? Okay? So five minutes later basically okay. And 70 00:04:32,520 --> 00:04:36,560 Speaker 1: do you recall the condition that you found in. He 71 00:04:36,640 --> 00:04:40,600 Speaker 1: had blood on his head, on his arms, and legs, 72 00:04:40,760 --> 00:04:43,400 Speaker 1: in various parts of his body. He didn't appear to 73 00:04:43,440 --> 00:04:47,320 Speaker 1: have any visible injuries, showing you what's been marked as 74 00:04:47,400 --> 00:04:51,400 Speaker 1: states Exhibit Q two. Again, if there appears to be 75 00:04:51,480 --> 00:04:54,360 Speaker 1: blood on his legs and feet and head and face, 76 00:04:54,720 --> 00:04:57,760 Speaker 1: is that consistent with the condition you found him in. Yes, okay, 77 00:04:58,200 --> 00:05:00,680 Speaker 1: and can you tell us when you were ex in him, 78 00:05:01,279 --> 00:05:05,560 Speaker 1: did you personally take care not to clean him up 79 00:05:05,640 --> 00:05:15,520 Speaker 1: or anything at that time? Forensic investigator Joseph Scott Morgan 80 00:05:16,160 --> 00:05:21,040 Speaker 1: the fact that Miranda, the EMT, had walked in and 81 00:05:21,080 --> 00:05:26,880 Speaker 1: she was essentially handed over like this still living legacy, 82 00:05:26,880 --> 00:05:32,520 Speaker 1: if you will, that's stained in blood, swaddled the child. 83 00:05:32,560 --> 00:05:36,040 Speaker 1: I would imagine bloodstained diaper, you know, and has to 84 00:05:36,080 --> 00:05:38,279 Speaker 1: make sure and at that moment, you know, you can imagine. 85 00:05:38,440 --> 00:05:40,240 Speaker 1: I know that I've been in on scenes before that 86 00:05:40,279 --> 00:05:44,119 Speaker 1: were very dramatic, but in that moment time you're getting 87 00:05:44,160 --> 00:05:47,239 Speaker 1: a sense that everybody's been wiped out and this little 88 00:05:47,240 --> 00:05:54,120 Speaker 1: precious angel is still cooing and alive. The defense did 89 00:05:54,160 --> 00:05:59,080 Speaker 1: not cross. Timothy Dickerson, former Pike County Police officer and 90 00:05:59,120 --> 00:06:02,560 Speaker 1: director of Pike on the Emergency Management, also arrived on 91 00:06:02,600 --> 00:06:06,800 Speaker 1: the scene. In his court testimony, he detailed entering Danna 92 00:06:06,880 --> 00:06:10,000 Speaker 1: Roden's house to find the bodies of Hannah ma and 93 00:06:10,080 --> 00:06:15,240 Speaker 1: Chris Rodin Jr. It was a grizzly spectacle. Actually did 94 00:06:15,240 --> 00:06:20,279 Speaker 1: my vehicle went into the home. I then turned right, 95 00:06:20,360 --> 00:06:24,080 Speaker 1: went into a room and found a deceased male. He 96 00:06:24,160 --> 00:06:29,000 Speaker 1: was in the bed, went from there out through the Uh, 97 00:06:29,560 --> 00:06:31,280 Speaker 1: I guess we'd be the living room in the kitchen area, 98 00:06:31,920 --> 00:06:36,320 Speaker 1: to another room where a deceased female was located, and 99 00:06:36,400 --> 00:06:40,640 Speaker 1: then made a right and found a third deceased female. 100 00:06:42,320 --> 00:06:45,159 Speaker 1: While Dickerson was in Hanname's room, he heard a sound 101 00:06:45,240 --> 00:06:47,480 Speaker 1: and saw a baby's arms extend up from the bed 102 00:06:47,560 --> 00:06:51,039 Speaker 1: in which her mother had been shot to death. Yeah, 103 00:06:51,040 --> 00:06:54,800 Speaker 1: what was the baby's condition? From what I remember, I 104 00:06:54,920 --> 00:06:57,919 Speaker 1: just remember the diaper having blood on it. There was 105 00:06:57,920 --> 00:07:02,880 Speaker 1: a traumatic scene, a large scene. And when I discovered 106 00:07:02,880 --> 00:07:05,040 Speaker 1: that the baby was a love that was very thankful 107 00:07:05,080 --> 00:07:07,520 Speaker 1: for that. Did you have a fear that the baby 108 00:07:07,560 --> 00:07:15,640 Speaker 1: may not have been alive? Yes. Dickerson later learned the 109 00:07:15,640 --> 00:07:19,200 Speaker 1: baby was only four days old. In his words, she 110 00:07:19,400 --> 00:07:23,040 Speaker 1: was very, very tiny. The jury on day four was 111 00:07:23,040 --> 00:07:27,560 Speaker 1: shown numerable evidence photos of inside the home, bloody drag marks, 112 00:07:28,000 --> 00:07:32,160 Speaker 1: blood spatter on the wall, and other forensic material. All 113 00:07:32,200 --> 00:07:34,720 Speaker 1: of this might trigger a jury to respond in anger. 114 00:07:35,440 --> 00:07:39,600 Speaker 1: The defense questioned whether all these gory exhibits were necessary. 115 00:07:41,440 --> 00:07:45,840 Speaker 1: Here's James Pilcher. They dove into the third crime scene, 116 00:07:46,000 --> 00:07:48,679 Speaker 1: which was the house that belonged to Dana Manley rodin 117 00:07:49,280 --> 00:07:52,560 Speaker 1: and that's where she, her son Chris Junior, and her 118 00:07:52,640 --> 00:07:55,160 Speaker 1: daughter Hannah Roden were all found shot to death in 119 00:07:55,200 --> 00:07:58,560 Speaker 1: their beds. There was a newborn infant found alive next 120 00:07:58,560 --> 00:08:06,400 Speaker 1: to Hannah, her newborn daughter. Here again, Stephanie and jeff 121 00:08:07,320 --> 00:08:10,080 Speaker 1: in Core. They've been showing these autopsy photos of the 122 00:08:10,200 --> 00:08:13,520 Speaker 1: victims and the crime scenes, as we've been hearing, very 123 00:08:13,600 --> 00:08:16,280 Speaker 1: graphic and very disturbing. And due to the graphic nature 124 00:08:16,320 --> 00:08:19,040 Speaker 1: of all of these pictures and walk throughs, the defense 125 00:08:19,080 --> 00:08:23,760 Speaker 1: has tried to move for a mistrial. Basically, how it 126 00:08:23,800 --> 00:08:27,400 Speaker 1: works in the courtroom is behind the witness there's a 127 00:08:27,480 --> 00:08:33,400 Speaker 1: flat screen television and when pictures are shown of the 128 00:08:33,440 --> 00:08:37,520 Speaker 1: crime scenes in autopsies, etc. It goes on this big screen, 129 00:08:37,880 --> 00:08:42,360 Speaker 1: and of course the jury is moved emotionally by the 130 00:08:42,400 --> 00:08:45,560 Speaker 1: graphic nature of it, and the defense is saying, hey, 131 00:08:45,760 --> 00:08:50,160 Speaker 1: that's not fair. It's not proven that George has done this, 132 00:08:50,640 --> 00:08:54,600 Speaker 1: so humans in general are going to feel angry toward 133 00:08:54,840 --> 00:08:58,880 Speaker 1: anybody who might be associated with these photographs. And on 134 00:08:58,920 --> 00:09:03,000 Speaker 1: the flip of that, prosecutor Angie Kineppa is saying, look, 135 00:09:03,600 --> 00:09:07,040 Speaker 1: this is what happened. To not show these photos is 136 00:09:07,080 --> 00:09:10,400 Speaker 1: also a crime. You have to see the graphic details 137 00:09:10,440 --> 00:09:16,400 Speaker 1: to really know the depth of these crimes. We're going 138 00:09:16,440 --> 00:09:18,520 Speaker 1: to take a break. We'll be back in a moment. 139 00:09:26,280 --> 00:09:29,800 Speaker 1: Defense attorney Richard Nash drilled Dickerson on where Dana Roden's 140 00:09:29,800 --> 00:09:34,440 Speaker 1: home was located. Was it in Pike, Adams or Sciota County. 141 00:09:35,320 --> 00:09:38,480 Speaker 1: When Dickerson answered Pike at first, the two got into 142 00:09:38,559 --> 00:09:41,600 Speaker 1: a heated exchange. This was a case of an old 143 00:09:41,640 --> 00:09:44,360 Speaker 1: motion rearing its head again that the trial venue was 144 00:09:44,400 --> 00:09:48,120 Speaker 1: in proper and search warrants invalid because Dana's home was 145 00:09:48,160 --> 00:09:55,559 Speaker 1: not technically in Pike County. James Pilcher, I think if 146 00:09:55,600 --> 00:09:59,200 Speaker 1: anybody's familiar with old school basketball, this feels like the 147 00:09:59,240 --> 00:10:04,400 Speaker 1: old four corner offense. By the defense, they are just 148 00:10:04,400 --> 00:10:08,040 Speaker 1: playing stallball. They are trying to make this thing last 149 00:10:08,120 --> 00:10:11,479 Speaker 1: as long as they can get as many jurors frustrated 150 00:10:11,480 --> 00:10:17,320 Speaker 1: as they can with the prosecution. After Dickerson, prosecutors called 151 00:10:17,360 --> 00:10:20,760 Speaker 1: Gary Michael Moseley, a former Piked In officer who responded 152 00:10:20,800 --> 00:10:24,320 Speaker 1: to the scene along with Dickerson's team. Moseley opted not 153 00:10:24,400 --> 00:10:27,520 Speaker 1: to be shown on camera, but consented to an audio recording. 154 00:10:28,200 --> 00:10:30,840 Speaker 1: He says he and his fellow deputies responded to a 155 00:10:30,880 --> 00:10:35,680 Speaker 1: shots fired call at Dana Roden's house. They searched the 156 00:10:35,679 --> 00:10:40,080 Speaker 1: property with extreme caution, gunstrown, fearing an active shooter was 157 00:10:40,080 --> 00:10:50,599 Speaker 1: still on the premises. We had his audio was a 158 00:10:50,640 --> 00:10:53,240 Speaker 1: little bit difficult to hear, so Jeff's going to read 159 00:10:53,240 --> 00:10:56,640 Speaker 1: from a transcript. Guns were out. We had a plan. 160 00:10:57,040 --> 00:10:59,520 Speaker 1: Once again, we had no idea the house was designed 161 00:10:59,559 --> 00:11:02,360 Speaker 1: the way it was, so our plan was just to 162 00:11:02,400 --> 00:11:04,959 Speaker 1: go in and set up security base. Once we make 163 00:11:05,160 --> 00:11:07,760 Speaker 1: entry and go from there and secure it. Bit by bit. 164 00:11:08,400 --> 00:11:10,640 Speaker 1: We open the door and the door swings inward to 165 00:11:10,679 --> 00:11:13,000 Speaker 1: the right, So as I came in, I do what's 166 00:11:13,040 --> 00:11:16,079 Speaker 1: called a piegraph cut. I'm an active shooter instructor and 167 00:11:16,120 --> 00:11:18,320 Speaker 1: I was taught that. So we come in. I spin 168 00:11:18,440 --> 00:11:21,080 Speaker 1: from this wall to this wall, constantly looking to see 169 00:11:21,080 --> 00:11:28,480 Speaker 1: if there's any threats in this room. Another key witness 170 00:11:28,480 --> 00:11:31,480 Speaker 1: who took the stand was Sheriff's Lieutenant Adam Ball, who 171 00:11:31,520 --> 00:11:35,120 Speaker 1: was the first officer on the murder scene. Ball had 172 00:11:35,120 --> 00:11:37,280 Speaker 1: no idea what he was responding to when he pulled 173 00:11:37,320 --> 00:11:41,119 Speaker 1: up to the property. He also opted not to be recorded, 174 00:11:41,320 --> 00:11:44,760 Speaker 1: but Ohio Fox nineteen reporter Mike Shell relaysed the gist 175 00:11:44,800 --> 00:11:49,600 Speaker 1: of the lieutenant's testimony. The first witness opted out of 176 00:11:49,640 --> 00:11:52,520 Speaker 1: being recorded. He has Pike County Shriff Lieutenant Adam Ball. 177 00:11:53,000 --> 00:11:55,199 Speaker 1: He testified that he was the first officer to enter 178 00:11:55,240 --> 00:11:57,720 Speaker 1: the crime scene at forty seventy seven Union Hill Road 179 00:11:58,080 --> 00:12:01,160 Speaker 1: where the bodies of Chris Rhaden and his cousin Gary 180 00:12:01,240 --> 00:12:04,720 Speaker 1: were found. Lieutenant Ball, who was a corporal in twenty sixteen, 181 00:12:05,040 --> 00:12:07,079 Speaker 1: says there was so much blood when he walked into 182 00:12:07,120 --> 00:12:09,280 Speaker 1: the front door that he had to climb over a 183 00:12:09,320 --> 00:12:13,240 Speaker 1: treadmill and other furniture to avoid disturbing the crime scene 184 00:12:13,320 --> 00:12:15,360 Speaker 1: and get to the back bedroom where Chris and Gary 185 00:12:15,400 --> 00:12:18,280 Speaker 1: Rodan's bodies were found lying together on the floor at 186 00:12:18,280 --> 00:12:24,480 Speaker 1: the foot of a bed. Chris Senior's fate was particularly heinous. 187 00:12:26,160 --> 00:12:28,319 Speaker 1: The arm he held up in self defense was blown 188 00:12:28,360 --> 00:12:32,880 Speaker 1: off at the elbow. Here again, forensic expert Joseph Scott Morgan, 189 00:12:34,080 --> 00:12:39,880 Speaker 1: Chris Senior's arm was so just absolutely mangled that she 190 00:12:40,040 --> 00:12:43,760 Speaker 1: stated that many of the major musclebirds were visible, you 191 00:12:43,760 --> 00:12:47,080 Speaker 1: could see fracture bone, and she could not make heads 192 00:12:47,160 --> 00:12:51,880 Speaker 1: or tails of at what point the bullet entered his 193 00:12:52,120 --> 00:12:56,400 Speaker 1: arm and what point it exit that's important for us 194 00:12:56,440 --> 00:12:59,439 Speaker 1: because from a forensic standpoint, a scene because that goes 195 00:12:59,480 --> 00:13:03,040 Speaker 1: to the dynam So what's happening at the moment. It's 196 00:13:03,080 --> 00:13:05,320 Speaker 1: not like you're shooting that fixed paper target at a 197 00:13:05,320 --> 00:13:09,840 Speaker 1: gun range. Okay, if Chris is rotated slightly to the 198 00:13:09,960 --> 00:13:12,840 Speaker 1: left or to the right, that could give you an 199 00:13:12,880 --> 00:13:15,480 Speaker 1: indication that he hadn't aware and he was being shot 200 00:13:15,720 --> 00:13:19,760 Speaker 1: as opposed to straight on where he's staring down the 201 00:13:19,840 --> 00:13:26,040 Speaker 1: muzzle of this weapon. Here again, James Pilcher. He would 202 00:13:26,080 --> 00:13:28,160 Speaker 1: have bled to death from the shot in the arm. 203 00:13:28,520 --> 00:13:31,120 Speaker 1: The shot to his stomach, he might have survived for 204 00:13:31,320 --> 00:13:34,599 Speaker 1: several hours without treatment, but it would have caused sepsis 205 00:13:34,600 --> 00:13:36,720 Speaker 1: and other things, and it hit liver and all that. 206 00:13:38,000 --> 00:13:40,080 Speaker 1: The shot to his chest hit his heart, he would 207 00:13:40,120 --> 00:13:43,000 Speaker 1: have died within a couple of minutes. And then of 208 00:13:43,040 --> 00:13:47,280 Speaker 1: course there are the six shots to the head. And 209 00:13:47,320 --> 00:13:50,480 Speaker 1: they said that for the shots to the head were 210 00:13:50,559 --> 00:13:54,160 Speaker 1: clearly he was already lying down and not moving, so 211 00:13:54,240 --> 00:13:58,560 Speaker 1: these were just on top of everything else. They shot 212 00:13:58,640 --> 00:14:00,800 Speaker 1: him while he was on the ground, Bang bang bang. 213 00:14:06,160 --> 00:14:08,720 Speaker 1: Lieutenant Ball was also the one to discovered the Rodents 214 00:14:08,760 --> 00:14:13,640 Speaker 1: marijuana grow operation. He describes it as quote extensive, taking 215 00:14:13,679 --> 00:14:17,640 Speaker 1: up a garage and outbuilding in a semi trailer. He 216 00:14:17,800 --> 00:14:21,080 Speaker 1: also discovered that the roadent security cameras had been dismantled. 217 00:14:22,400 --> 00:14:28,240 Speaker 1: Lieutenant Ball actually went outside after clearing the house because 218 00:14:28,280 --> 00:14:31,160 Speaker 1: they didn't know if anybody was still around. They didn't 219 00:14:31,160 --> 00:14:34,560 Speaker 1: know if somebody was still on the property killing anybody, 220 00:14:34,720 --> 00:14:40,720 Speaker 1: or armed or whatever. So after clearing the trailer or 221 00:14:40,880 --> 00:14:43,640 Speaker 1: Chris Engary layer, they went out and cleared the property 222 00:14:43,640 --> 00:14:47,360 Speaker 1: and at that point that's when they found the open 223 00:14:47,800 --> 00:14:51,640 Speaker 1: marijuana grow operation. And they went upstairs and that's when 224 00:14:51,640 --> 00:14:56,360 Speaker 1: they found, hey, there's cameras and wires in no DVR. 225 00:14:58,840 --> 00:15:01,680 Speaker 1: The defense exploited the grow operation to suggest that the 226 00:15:01,760 --> 00:15:06,080 Speaker 1: murders could have been cartel related, a theory police have 227 00:15:06,160 --> 00:15:09,600 Speaker 1: long dismissed. At one time, there was a speculation that 228 00:15:09,680 --> 00:15:12,560 Speaker 1: a Mexican drug cartel may have been involved in the murders, 229 00:15:12,800 --> 00:15:15,320 Speaker 1: but then Ohio Attorney General Mike de Wine said it 230 00:15:15,360 --> 00:15:18,360 Speaker 1: was not a factor. The motive was a custody dispute 231 00:15:18,360 --> 00:15:20,920 Speaker 1: over Jake Wagner and Hannah Rhodent's two year old daughters. 232 00:15:22,920 --> 00:15:26,040 Speaker 1: It's obviously too early to surmise how this trial is skewing. 233 00:15:26,360 --> 00:15:30,560 Speaker 1: But one glaring omission from the defense is this George Wagner, 234 00:15:30,600 --> 00:15:33,240 Speaker 1: the Fourth's attorneys have yet to offer up a clear, 235 00:15:33,360 --> 00:15:36,160 Speaker 1: solid alibi for where George was on the night of 236 00:15:36,160 --> 00:15:43,440 Speaker 1: the killings. Again, James Pilcher, they've been kind of vague 237 00:15:43,480 --> 00:15:46,720 Speaker 1: on this point. They have not come out instead. And 238 00:15:46,800 --> 00:15:50,360 Speaker 1: actually this was they were about to say something along 239 00:15:50,400 --> 00:15:53,840 Speaker 1: those lines and their opening the defense is opening, and 240 00:15:53,880 --> 00:15:56,400 Speaker 1: there was an immediate objection and they went back in 241 00:15:56,400 --> 00:15:58,880 Speaker 1: the chambers. Five minutes into the defense's opening. You get, 242 00:15:59,120 --> 00:16:02,880 Speaker 1: you get a rejection from the prosecution. It was really 243 00:16:02,920 --> 00:16:06,800 Speaker 1: really strange, and they kind of intimated that George stayed 244 00:16:06,800 --> 00:16:09,400 Speaker 1: home and was asleep in his bed and he was 245 00:16:09,440 --> 00:16:12,880 Speaker 1: going out and he found it really weird that Jake 246 00:16:13,000 --> 00:16:15,360 Speaker 1: was up before him working and he wanted nothing to 247 00:16:15,440 --> 00:16:17,800 Speaker 1: do with his family, and he wanted he's trying to 248 00:16:17,840 --> 00:16:20,480 Speaker 1: stay away from him. And but they never came out 249 00:16:20,560 --> 00:16:22,520 Speaker 1: and said he has an alibi. That never came out 250 00:16:22,520 --> 00:16:25,360 Speaker 1: and said this is where he was. And that's going 251 00:16:25,360 --> 00:16:28,280 Speaker 1: to be the difficult thing for the defense, especially when 252 00:16:28,320 --> 00:16:31,920 Speaker 1: you start seeing their funds were commingled. They even have 253 00:16:32,080 --> 00:16:35,640 Speaker 1: them on recording telling his mother, I don't want to leave. 254 00:16:36,160 --> 00:16:39,200 Speaker 1: We're all here together. This place is a moneymaker. This 255 00:16:39,240 --> 00:16:41,480 Speaker 1: is after they moved to Alaska. I know I'm jumping 256 00:16:41,520 --> 00:16:45,320 Speaker 1: ahead of myself, but there have been evidence produced since 257 00:16:45,360 --> 00:16:48,320 Speaker 1: the first days of the trial that have indicated that 258 00:16:48,400 --> 00:16:51,080 Speaker 1: George was still part of the family. He didn't want 259 00:16:51,120 --> 00:16:54,640 Speaker 1: to leave, like the defense has indicated in their opening statements, 260 00:16:55,280 --> 00:17:01,520 Speaker 1: and the prosecution is specifically tailoring the evidence towards what 261 00:17:01,600 --> 00:17:05,359 Speaker 1: the defense said in the opening statement that George wanted 262 00:17:05,400 --> 00:17:07,720 Speaker 1: to move out. George wanted nothing to do with the family, 263 00:17:08,119 --> 00:17:11,800 Speaker 1: and they're introducing evidence piece by piece that that was 264 00:17:11,840 --> 00:17:16,119 Speaker 1: not the case. Joseph Scott Morgan was in on the 265 00:17:16,200 --> 00:17:19,359 Speaker 1: challenges the prosecution faces to place George at the scene 266 00:17:19,359 --> 00:17:21,560 Speaker 1: of the crime. I think that there are a lot 267 00:17:21,600 --> 00:17:26,200 Speaker 1: of circumstantial issues regarding the planning. I think that he 268 00:17:26,280 --> 00:17:29,399 Speaker 1: had an awareness obviously, and for all I know, he 269 00:17:29,520 --> 00:17:32,240 Speaker 1: was very well in the vehicle, you know, I mean, 270 00:17:32,480 --> 00:17:35,440 Speaker 1: you know, who am I to say, but to physically 271 00:17:35,560 --> 00:17:40,520 Speaker 1: put him in you know, in the trailer with for instance, 272 00:17:40,600 --> 00:17:43,639 Speaker 1: with Chris and Gary that night when that hole was 273 00:17:43,680 --> 00:17:46,480 Speaker 1: blown through the door, or you know, when that wood 274 00:17:46,640 --> 00:17:50,359 Speaker 1: was splintered and sent into Chris Senior's face. You know, 275 00:17:50,440 --> 00:17:54,080 Speaker 1: you really think, you know, was was he there? You know, 276 00:17:54,240 --> 00:17:56,520 Speaker 1: was he physically there while it was happening, or when 277 00:17:56,520 --> 00:17:59,160 Speaker 1: the bodies are being drug from one room to the other, 278 00:17:59,359 --> 00:18:02,639 Speaker 1: you know, which is really kind of an exclamation point 279 00:18:02,640 --> 00:18:04,560 Speaker 1: in all of this because it goes to the kind 280 00:18:04,560 --> 00:18:10,080 Speaker 1: of the ghastliness of it all. Here again, Stephanie and Jeff. 281 00:18:11,000 --> 00:18:14,760 Speaker 1: At this stage, it seems that the main question is 282 00:18:15,760 --> 00:18:19,320 Speaker 1: was George Wagner there and if he wasn't was he 283 00:18:19,359 --> 00:18:21,800 Speaker 1: a part of the planning? And if he was a 284 00:18:21,840 --> 00:18:25,840 Speaker 1: part of the planning, is he equally culpable. It seems 285 00:18:25,880 --> 00:18:28,000 Speaker 1: like what the defense will try to do is hammer 286 00:18:28,040 --> 00:18:32,280 Speaker 1: away at this story and argue that, yes, he came 287 00:18:32,320 --> 00:18:34,080 Speaker 1: from a bad family, but that doesn't make him a 288 00:18:34,080 --> 00:18:38,120 Speaker 1: bad guy. So, as we learned last season, the opinion 289 00:18:38,119 --> 00:18:40,680 Speaker 1: of George Wagner is a little mixed. Some people were 290 00:18:40,760 --> 00:18:43,040 Speaker 1: shocked that he was involved with the murders and had 291 00:18:43,040 --> 00:18:45,080 Speaker 1: a very hard time wrapping their head around it, and 292 00:18:45,160 --> 00:18:48,320 Speaker 1: other people were not surprised and thought he was very 293 00:18:48,400 --> 00:18:50,919 Speaker 1: much a part of the Wagner clan. And so I 294 00:18:50,920 --> 00:18:52,760 Speaker 1: think it's just going to be fascinating to watch all 295 00:18:52,840 --> 00:18:57,960 Speaker 1: of this play out in the courtroom, the prosecution has 296 00:18:58,000 --> 00:19:03,080 Speaker 1: its vulnerabilities. Also among the media pool, there is definitely 297 00:19:03,960 --> 00:19:09,560 Speaker 1: a sense of questioning about a prosecution strategy and when 298 00:19:09,600 --> 00:19:12,679 Speaker 1: are they all going to tie this together? When are 299 00:19:12,680 --> 00:19:14,879 Speaker 1: they going to point to George being part of this 300 00:19:14,960 --> 00:19:19,040 Speaker 1: conspiracy because none of the physical evidence presented so far. 301 00:19:20,200 --> 00:19:23,640 Speaker 1: They're starting to get into some of the other evidence 302 00:19:23,720 --> 00:19:26,520 Speaker 1: on the wire taps and so forth, but they even 303 00:19:26,560 --> 00:19:29,439 Speaker 1: stipulated none of the physical evidence they found that the 304 00:19:29,480 --> 00:19:33,320 Speaker 1: crime scenes had any of the wagoners to any of 305 00:19:33,359 --> 00:19:39,000 Speaker 1: these crime scenes. Joseph Morgan theorizes about how the lack 306 00:19:39,040 --> 00:19:42,520 Speaker 1: of DNA evidence will be a possible blockade in proving 307 00:19:42,600 --> 00:19:44,920 Speaker 1: George the Fourth was there the night of the slangs. 308 00:19:46,400 --> 00:19:48,560 Speaker 1: It's tough nowadays. You know, maybe ten years ago it 309 00:19:48,560 --> 00:19:50,520 Speaker 1: wouldn't have been tough, but we're in a brave new world. 310 00:19:50,640 --> 00:19:53,080 Speaker 1: People have an expectation that, oh, they're going to get 311 00:19:53,080 --> 00:19:55,399 Speaker 1: you to talk about DNA. I've seen that on television, 312 00:19:55,800 --> 00:19:57,800 Speaker 1: and you get up there and it's a big fail, 313 00:19:58,119 --> 00:20:00,199 Speaker 1: you know, as far as the jury is concerned. But 314 00:20:00,320 --> 00:20:02,640 Speaker 1: just because you have an absence of something doesn't mean 315 00:20:02,640 --> 00:20:05,040 Speaker 1: that something hasn't occurred. It's just that that's what many 316 00:20:05,080 --> 00:20:08,439 Speaker 1: people expect. You know that we can conjure up DNA 317 00:20:08,680 --> 00:20:11,359 Speaker 1: and you can't. It's either there it's not, you know, 318 00:20:11,400 --> 00:20:14,159 Speaker 1: and I think that that's significant, and it's also significant 319 00:20:14,200 --> 00:20:21,359 Speaker 1: relative to fingerprints as well. Let's stop here for another break. 320 00:20:29,440 --> 00:20:32,280 Speaker 1: With eight bodies and four suspects, this is a case 321 00:20:32,320 --> 00:20:36,679 Speaker 1: with a dizzying number of moving pieces, and there's a 322 00:20:36,720 --> 00:20:40,000 Speaker 1: real risk of the jury being confused, allowing reasonable doubt 323 00:20:40,040 --> 00:20:45,160 Speaker 1: to seep in. Here's Law on Crime's legal analyst Terry Austin. 324 00:20:46,359 --> 00:20:49,639 Speaker 1: The more complicated, the better for the defense. The most 325 00:20:49,720 --> 00:20:52,919 Speaker 1: complicating part of this case is keeping track of the 326 00:20:53,000 --> 00:20:56,160 Speaker 1: names and the relationships. I mean, we know already that 327 00:20:56,240 --> 00:20:59,879 Speaker 1: there are eight victims for defendants for different crime scenes, 328 00:21:00,160 --> 00:21:03,200 Speaker 1: and all of those individuals have people who were involved 329 00:21:03,240 --> 00:21:06,679 Speaker 1: in terms of finding those individuals who were killed, and 330 00:21:07,000 --> 00:21:09,879 Speaker 1: so the biggest issue for the prosecution is going to 331 00:21:10,000 --> 00:21:14,040 Speaker 1: keep everything straight. You want that jury to follow your story. 332 00:21:14,440 --> 00:21:18,440 Speaker 1: In the case of prosecution trying to pursue the claims 333 00:21:18,440 --> 00:21:22,359 Speaker 1: against George, it's going to be difficult to establish that motive. 334 00:21:23,119 --> 00:21:26,560 Speaker 1: They have evidence against, you know, obviously Jake against Angela, 335 00:21:26,600 --> 00:21:28,520 Speaker 1: but I think it might be difficult. And all you 336 00:21:28,600 --> 00:21:31,040 Speaker 1: have to do, as you know, is have one juror 337 00:21:31,080 --> 00:21:34,640 Speaker 1: who has reasonable doubt and doesn't want to convict, and 338 00:21:34,920 --> 00:21:37,000 Speaker 1: there you have it. So we'll see what happens. But 339 00:21:37,200 --> 00:21:39,320 Speaker 1: I think there could be some doubt in the case 340 00:21:39,320 --> 00:21:43,840 Speaker 1: against George here. And remember, this is a jury of 341 00:21:43,880 --> 00:21:49,639 Speaker 1: his peers that's rooted within our founding documents, and his 342 00:21:49,800 --> 00:21:54,840 Speaker 1: peers consist of those that live in that small slice 343 00:21:55,119 --> 00:21:57,480 Speaker 1: of the world up there that they see each other 344 00:21:57,560 --> 00:22:00,480 Speaker 1: day to day, you know, walmart in, a cafe, everywhere 345 00:22:00,480 --> 00:22:03,359 Speaker 1: else that they go up there, they see one another, 346 00:22:03,400 --> 00:22:05,400 Speaker 1: and they know they raise their hands to one another, 347 00:22:05,480 --> 00:22:07,399 Speaker 1: that drive down the road and wave, you know, and 348 00:22:07,400 --> 00:22:10,040 Speaker 1: that sort of thing. It's that kind of community. And 349 00:22:10,160 --> 00:22:12,760 Speaker 1: I previously said and I'll continue to say that the 350 00:22:12,880 --> 00:22:17,760 Speaker 1: level of brutality that is involved in the piked and 351 00:22:17,880 --> 00:22:22,879 Speaker 1: massacre and the murders of the road and family again, 352 00:22:23,680 --> 00:22:26,920 Speaker 1: it is something that is going to live in infamy 353 00:22:27,600 --> 00:22:30,040 Speaker 1: in this corner of the world. It's the type of 354 00:22:30,119 --> 00:22:32,520 Speaker 1: thing that one hundred years from now, kids will sit 355 00:22:32,560 --> 00:22:37,040 Speaker 1: around campfires and they will tell horror stories about this 356 00:22:37,119 --> 00:22:39,199 Speaker 1: is what we're dealing with in that world. And so 357 00:22:39,680 --> 00:22:43,159 Speaker 1: it's on the shoulders of this jury to weigh the 358 00:22:43,200 --> 00:22:45,919 Speaker 1: evidence and decide, you know, is somebody going to be 359 00:22:45,920 --> 00:22:48,280 Speaker 1: made to pay? But they've got a hard decision. I 360 00:22:48,280 --> 00:22:51,000 Speaker 1: think it's still coming and they're not there yet, but 361 00:22:51,040 --> 00:22:54,159 Speaker 1: they will have a hard decision to make it by George. 362 00:22:55,359 --> 00:22:58,119 Speaker 1: So look at it this way. TV has sixty minutes, 363 00:22:58,160 --> 00:23:01,680 Speaker 1: maybe two hours, or a movie to tell a story 364 00:23:01,720 --> 00:23:05,480 Speaker 1: about a trial. You can only fit so much evidence, 365 00:23:05,520 --> 00:23:07,960 Speaker 1: you can only fit so much dramatic moments into that. 366 00:23:08,520 --> 00:23:11,680 Speaker 1: But when you're dealing with the actual rule of law 367 00:23:12,480 --> 00:23:16,119 Speaker 1: and how you can introduce evidence, and what kind of 368 00:23:16,200 --> 00:23:19,160 Speaker 1: questions you can ask and all of those things, all 369 00:23:19,240 --> 00:23:21,800 Speaker 1: that stuff you see on TV is out the door. 370 00:23:22,160 --> 00:23:27,600 Speaker 1: So what we're seeing is the very slow incremental process 371 00:23:27,640 --> 00:23:32,160 Speaker 1: of justice and the law in this case. Ladies, gentlemen 372 00:23:32,200 --> 00:23:33,840 Speaker 1: of the jury, we're going to a journals for the day, 373 00:23:34,080 --> 00:23:37,520 Speaker 1: would be going home, should be taking your badges with you, 374 00:23:37,680 --> 00:23:42,760 Speaker 1: or have been leaving your notepads on your chairs. As 375 00:23:42,880 --> 00:23:44,720 Speaker 1: Day four wrapped up in the face of all the 376 00:23:44,720 --> 00:23:48,240 Speaker 1: brutal evidence, Presiding Judge Randy Deering took a moment to 377 00:23:48,280 --> 00:23:54,840 Speaker 1: remind the jury of their weighty responsibilities. And you know 378 00:23:54,880 --> 00:23:57,080 Speaker 1: what else I'm going to say. You're not to discuss 379 00:23:57,119 --> 00:24:00,760 Speaker 1: this case among yourselves or with anyone else. You're not 380 00:24:00,840 --> 00:24:03,240 Speaker 1: to permit this case to be discussed with you or 381 00:24:03,320 --> 00:24:07,040 Speaker 1: in your presence. You're not to form or express an 382 00:24:07,040 --> 00:24:10,879 Speaker 1: opinion concerning this case until it is finally submitted to 383 00:24:10,880 --> 00:24:15,480 Speaker 1: you for deliberation and verdict. You're not to read, listen to, 384 00:24:15,800 --> 00:24:18,840 Speaker 1: or view any reports or accounts of this case from 385 00:24:18,880 --> 00:24:23,920 Speaker 1: any source whatsoever. Even though many witnesses are opting out 386 00:24:23,920 --> 00:24:27,560 Speaker 1: of being recorded, the KAT Studios team and experts are there. 387 00:24:28,720 --> 00:24:31,159 Speaker 1: In the coming weeks, the pieces of a devastating and 388 00:24:31,200 --> 00:24:34,360 Speaker 1: complicated puzzle will finally come together once and for all. 389 00:24:36,840 --> 00:24:39,359 Speaker 1: I would say they are trying to shock the jury 390 00:24:39,600 --> 00:24:42,880 Speaker 1: at this point with the violence of it, for sure, 391 00:24:43,640 --> 00:24:46,880 Speaker 1: because they show the pictures of people dead in their 392 00:24:46,960 --> 00:24:52,439 Speaker 1: beds or on the floor or pulled into beds time 393 00:24:52,720 --> 00:24:57,520 Speaker 1: and time and time again. I can't imagine. Can you 394 00:24:57,560 --> 00:25:01,040 Speaker 1: even get into words, but it's like or not there 395 00:25:01,080 --> 00:25:03,640 Speaker 1: living in hal really well. I was trying to get 396 00:25:03,680 --> 00:25:06,119 Speaker 1: home my father and I want to able to get 397 00:25:06,119 --> 00:25:08,399 Speaker 1: agreed to let him know that his brother and his 398 00:25:09,040 --> 00:25:11,920 Speaker 1: niece and nephews and stuff has been killed. Luke said 399 00:25:11,920 --> 00:25:15,359 Speaker 1: their dad, Billy Wagner, once threatened violence against his dad 400 00:25:15,480 --> 00:25:18,320 Speaker 1: and his uncle, Chris Rodin Sr. Luke said that while 401 00:25:18,359 --> 00:25:20,280 Speaker 1: his dad and uncle were doing a good deed for 402 00:25:20,320 --> 00:25:23,159 Speaker 1: Billy Wagner, Billy told Luke that a dust up between 403 00:25:23,160 --> 00:25:27,720 Speaker 1: the three of them would not end well. More my words, 404 00:25:28,320 --> 00:25:33,399 Speaker 1: this case is about to blow wide open. More on 405 00:25:33,520 --> 00:25:37,600 Speaker 1: that next time. For more information on the case and 406 00:25:37,680 --> 00:25:42,439 Speaker 1: relevant photos, follow us on Instagram at kat Underscore Studios. 407 00:25:43,359 --> 00:25:47,760 Speaker 1: The Pikedon Maskers produced by Stephanie Leidecker, Jeff Shane, Chris Graves, 408 00:25:47,840 --> 00:25:53,080 Speaker 1: Alan Water, Andrew Arnow and me Courtney Armstrong. Editing and 409 00:25:53,119 --> 00:25:57,679 Speaker 1: sound designed by Jeff Taw. Music by Jared Aston. The 410 00:25:57,720 --> 00:26:01,840 Speaker 1: Pikedon Masker is a production of iHeartRadio Katie Studios. For 411 00:26:01,920 --> 00:26:06,800 Speaker 1: more podcasts from iHeart Radio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, 412 00:26:07,000 --> 00:26:09,520 Speaker 1: or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.