1 00:00:03,440 --> 00:00:06,560 Speaker 1: My brother's story hit sort of an inflection point. He 2 00:00:06,640 --> 00:00:11,559 Speaker 1: had been dealing with mental health issues compounded by addiction 3 00:00:11,960 --> 00:00:16,000 Speaker 1: and a disability. There's an organization called Artlifting, and they 4 00:00:16,040 --> 00:00:19,480 Speaker 1: specifically represent artists who've been on house and artists with disabilities, 5 00:00:20,239 --> 00:00:23,920 Speaker 1: and they started representing him and his art to corporate buyers. 6 00:00:24,160 --> 00:00:26,680 Speaker 1: A one point, Feizer bought a painting. At one point, 7 00:00:26,720 --> 00:00:30,360 Speaker 1: an airport bought a painting, and in each purchase, he 8 00:00:30,480 --> 00:00:33,560 Speaker 1: was getting this confidence boost right like, he felt seen, 9 00:00:33,640 --> 00:00:38,760 Speaker 1: he felt valued. And then Amazon was building one of 10 00:00:38,760 --> 00:00:42,680 Speaker 1: their data centers in the DC area. They picked eight 11 00:00:42,680 --> 00:00:46,960 Speaker 1: of his original paintings for that building. It's ten thousand dollars. 12 00:00:47,360 --> 00:00:49,839 Speaker 1: He'd never seen a ten thousand dollars check at that point. 13 00:00:50,400 --> 00:00:53,960 Speaker 1: It completely changed his life. The thing that kept me 14 00:00:54,120 --> 00:00:58,200 Speaker 1: up at night was how do we scale what happened 15 00:00:58,280 --> 00:00:58,920 Speaker 1: to my brother? 16 00:01:02,240 --> 00:01:05,440 Speaker 2: Welcome to an army of normal folks. I'm Bill Courtney, 17 00:01:05,720 --> 00:01:08,680 Speaker 2: I'm a normal guy. I'm a husband, I'm a father, 18 00:01:08,880 --> 00:01:12,040 Speaker 2: I'm an entrepreneur, and I'm a football coach in Inner 19 00:01:12,120 --> 00:01:15,720 Speaker 2: City Memphis. And that last part, somehow it led to 20 00:01:15,760 --> 00:01:18,240 Speaker 2: an oscar for the film about one of my teams. 21 00:01:18,440 --> 00:01:22,960 Speaker 2: That movie is called undefeated. I believe our country's problems 22 00:01:23,040 --> 00:01:25,360 Speaker 2: are never going to be solved by a bunch of 23 00:01:25,400 --> 00:01:29,640 Speaker 2: fancy people wearing nice suits, using big old words that 24 00:01:29,680 --> 00:01:33,600 Speaker 2: nobody ever really uses on cinn and fogs, but rather 25 00:01:33,680 --> 00:01:38,679 Speaker 2: by just an army of normal folks. Guys. That's us, 26 00:01:38,760 --> 00:01:41,880 Speaker 2: just you and me saying you know what, maybe I 27 00:01:42,040 --> 00:01:45,640 Speaker 2: can help. That's what Lauren McCann, the voice you just heard, 28 00:01:45,680 --> 00:01:48,880 Speaker 2: has done, and in only three and a half years, 29 00:01:49,200 --> 00:01:53,720 Speaker 2: she has scaled what happened to her brother. Procure Impact 30 00:01:54,200 --> 00:01:58,960 Speaker 2: is a business to business marketplace where businesses can secure 31 00:01:59,040 --> 00:02:04,840 Speaker 2: products they need from mission based suppliers such as folks 32 00:02:04,880 --> 00:02:09,760 Speaker 2: who employ survivors of human traffic, people in recovery, and 33 00:02:09,840 --> 00:02:15,840 Speaker 2: those returning from prison. The marketplace helps the social enterprises grow. 34 00:02:16,320 --> 00:02:20,040 Speaker 2: It helps their people grow and their customers grow through 35 00:02:20,120 --> 00:02:24,000 Speaker 2: meaningful products that help them stand out among the competition. 36 00:02:25,200 --> 00:02:29,919 Speaker 2: Believe this or not, Today, procure Impact is an extraordinary 37 00:02:29,960 --> 00:02:34,360 Speaker 2: marketplace of over one hundred suppliers who provide six thousand 38 00:02:34,440 --> 00:02:38,919 Speaker 2: products to over twenty five hundred hotels across the country. 39 00:02:39,800 --> 00:02:43,920 Speaker 2: The story is phenomenal. I cannot wait for Lauren to 40 00:02:44,000 --> 00:02:47,200 Speaker 2: teach all of us how to use our own unique 41 00:02:47,240 --> 00:02:50,720 Speaker 2: experiences to create a better world. Right after these brief 42 00:02:50,760 --> 00:03:12,760 Speaker 2: messages from our general sponsors, Lauren McCann, Welcome to Memphis. 43 00:03:13,200 --> 00:03:15,120 Speaker 1: Thank you for having me excited to be here. 44 00:03:15,480 --> 00:03:20,520 Speaker 2: So everybody, Lauren is the co founder and CEO of 45 00:03:20,639 --> 00:03:28,400 Speaker 2: Procure Impact, which is really a fascinating venture that I 46 00:03:28,440 --> 00:03:30,919 Speaker 2: can't wait to get into. And I can't help but 47 00:03:30,960 --> 00:03:35,040 Speaker 2: think you didn't really plan but almost arrived at. 48 00:03:35,480 --> 00:03:37,680 Speaker 1: That is very true. Definitely wasn't on the Bengo card 49 00:03:37,760 --> 00:03:38,640 Speaker 1: to be an entrepreneur. 50 00:03:38,840 --> 00:03:41,000 Speaker 2: Yeah, that's kind of cool, but we're going to get 51 00:03:41,000 --> 00:03:43,080 Speaker 2: down to that, but first we got to set it up. 52 00:03:43,160 --> 00:03:47,240 Speaker 2: Let everybody know kind of your perspective, which I also 53 00:03:47,320 --> 00:03:50,680 Speaker 2: found vastly interesting, and I kind of want to open 54 00:03:50,760 --> 00:03:54,960 Speaker 2: with talking to you about your brother, who I feel like, 55 00:03:55,120 --> 00:03:57,640 Speaker 2: as I read it, maybe has been a part of 56 00:03:57,680 --> 00:04:01,840 Speaker 2: the inspiration for your work. Interestingly, at one time he 57 00:04:01,960 --> 00:04:06,240 Speaker 2: was unhoused, he was missing, and he was in the 58 00:04:06,320 --> 00:04:09,440 Speaker 2: middle of a mental health crisis. And when you hear 59 00:04:09,480 --> 00:04:12,720 Speaker 2: the word Procure Impact and you hear that set up, 60 00:04:13,240 --> 00:04:20,600 Speaker 2: you would think, oh, she's probably working in unhoused folks 61 00:04:20,720 --> 00:04:23,800 Speaker 2: and things like that. And we've highlighted people who do that. 62 00:04:23,839 --> 00:04:27,040 Speaker 2: But actually maybe that's a byproduct to what you do, 63 00:04:27,120 --> 00:04:30,719 Speaker 2: but that's not really intrinsically what you do. But to 64 00:04:30,760 --> 00:04:35,120 Speaker 2: set it all up with a brother who was homeless, missing, 65 00:04:35,200 --> 00:04:38,400 Speaker 2: in the middle of mental health crisis, what's that like 66 00:04:38,440 --> 00:04:39,000 Speaker 2: for a sister? 67 00:04:41,640 --> 00:04:44,200 Speaker 1: I mean, those were pretty dark times for my family 68 00:04:44,400 --> 00:04:50,360 Speaker 1: and for my brother. He had been dealing with mental 69 00:04:50,400 --> 00:04:56,719 Speaker 1: health issues compounded by addiction and a disability. He started 70 00:04:56,720 --> 00:05:00,840 Speaker 1: exhibiting signs in elementary school and middle school. At that time, 71 00:05:00,920 --> 00:05:05,680 Speaker 1: we didn't have words for that, We didn't understand the diagnosis. 72 00:05:06,160 --> 00:05:11,520 Speaker 1: He definitely self medicated, which then turned into addiction. But 73 00:05:11,600 --> 00:05:15,839 Speaker 1: he has severe mental health issues, and you know, he's 74 00:05:15,920 --> 00:05:18,200 Speaker 1: been on a journey trying to figure out the right 75 00:05:19,120 --> 00:05:21,920 Speaker 1: care to help him stabilize and live a meaningful life, 76 00:05:22,000 --> 00:05:25,960 Speaker 1: you know, since his diagnosis early in his life. And 77 00:05:26,000 --> 00:05:27,640 Speaker 1: so when you ask, you know, what it was like 78 00:05:27,640 --> 00:05:31,200 Speaker 1: for a sister, it's pretty devastating to see your sibling 79 00:05:32,240 --> 00:05:37,159 Speaker 1: dealing with those issues and having such significant barriers to 80 00:05:37,320 --> 00:05:40,200 Speaker 1: just getting up in the morning and getting a job 81 00:05:40,360 --> 00:05:44,359 Speaker 1: and feeling fulfilled and feeling valued, and the kind of 82 00:05:44,400 --> 00:05:47,760 Speaker 1: groundhog day he was dealing with at the time. He'd 83 00:05:47,800 --> 00:05:50,520 Speaker 1: have moments of stability and then have moments where he 84 00:05:50,600 --> 00:05:55,920 Speaker 1: was unhoused. He'd have jobs he'd love, and stress would 85 00:05:55,920 --> 00:05:59,040 Speaker 1: push him over the edge. And so it was really 86 00:05:59,080 --> 00:06:04,640 Speaker 1: really difficult your poor parents. Yes, I mean the amount 87 00:06:04,680 --> 00:06:08,000 Speaker 1: of hospitalizations and rehabs and the treatment that you know, 88 00:06:08,000 --> 00:06:10,400 Speaker 1: you're trying to find the right solutions for your child. 89 00:06:11,160 --> 00:06:14,120 Speaker 1: The reality though, is that like one in six families 90 00:06:14,160 --> 00:06:18,839 Speaker 1: are dealing with this. And what I've realized over time 91 00:06:18,960 --> 00:06:21,120 Speaker 1: is that we often have so much shame and fear 92 00:06:21,320 --> 00:06:24,960 Speaker 1: around the experience that we don't share and we don't 93 00:06:25,360 --> 00:06:28,280 Speaker 1: support one another. And there's you know, neighbors and friends 94 00:06:28,279 --> 00:06:30,919 Speaker 1: and other people that were in my life that actually 95 00:06:30,960 --> 00:06:35,599 Speaker 1: had similar experiences and similar challenges, And if we only 96 00:06:35,640 --> 00:06:38,040 Speaker 1: just opened up a bit more vulnerably as a society, 97 00:06:38,080 --> 00:06:40,000 Speaker 1: we could really help one another through those times. 98 00:06:40,320 --> 00:06:43,360 Speaker 2: Yeah, it's interesting. If someone has breast cancer, we wear 99 00:06:43,440 --> 00:06:46,200 Speaker 2: ribbons and football players wear pink stuff and we run 100 00:06:46,240 --> 00:06:48,480 Speaker 2: around and raise a bunch of money for that disease. 101 00:06:49,440 --> 00:06:52,479 Speaker 2: But mental health disease we tend to hide in the 102 00:06:52,480 --> 00:06:54,800 Speaker 2: shadows and have shame about it. Why would we have 103 00:06:54,880 --> 00:06:59,280 Speaker 2: shame about one disease and almost celebrate working on another 104 00:06:59,520 --> 00:07:03,719 Speaker 2: it is is an interesting commentary on the way society 105 00:07:03,880 --> 00:07:06,920 Speaker 2: views mental illness, but we do all have to get 106 00:07:06,920 --> 00:07:09,680 Speaker 2: our arms around it is a disease no different than 107 00:07:09,720 --> 00:07:10,800 Speaker 2: heart disease or cancer. 108 00:07:11,320 --> 00:07:15,520 Speaker 1: That's absolutely right. And you know, organizations like the National 109 00:07:15,560 --> 00:07:19,600 Speaker 1: Alliance and Mental Illness and others are out there, you know, 110 00:07:19,680 --> 00:07:23,360 Speaker 1: Shatterproof and Addiction. They are really trying to address stigma 111 00:07:23,800 --> 00:07:26,600 Speaker 1: and bring people out of the shadows. The phoenix is 112 00:07:26,600 --> 00:07:29,320 Speaker 1: another one where people are very proud about their sobriety 113 00:07:29,440 --> 00:07:33,040 Speaker 1: and the resilience and grit and determination it's created in 114 00:07:33,080 --> 00:07:36,440 Speaker 1: them through those difficult times. So I do think we're 115 00:07:36,440 --> 00:07:39,320 Speaker 1: making progress. But at the time when my brother was 116 00:07:40,120 --> 00:07:42,080 Speaker 1: dealing with all of this and it was at its 117 00:07:42,080 --> 00:07:49,240 Speaker 1: sort of heightened peak, we were pretty hopeless. And is 118 00:07:49,320 --> 00:07:53,560 Speaker 1: you reference like my journey is really based on that experience, 119 00:07:53,600 --> 00:07:58,440 Speaker 1: that lived experience realizing the system was broken, realizing that 120 00:08:00,040 --> 00:08:03,640 Speaker 1: or to help my brother live a fulfilling life where 121 00:08:03,720 --> 00:08:06,160 Speaker 1: he had meaning and purpose and he was seen through 122 00:08:06,160 --> 00:08:10,320 Speaker 1: his strengths instead of through his struggles. We had to 123 00:08:10,360 --> 00:08:14,360 Speaker 1: do things differently, and my brother's story hit sort of 124 00:08:14,360 --> 00:08:18,960 Speaker 1: an inflection point. Was it was the winter period in 125 00:08:19,000 --> 00:08:21,720 Speaker 1: the DC area, it was freezing outside. 126 00:08:22,720 --> 00:08:25,640 Speaker 2: How old was he at this time? When when reading 127 00:08:25,680 --> 00:08:28,000 Speaker 2: this story, I never really had perspective on. 128 00:08:28,520 --> 00:08:32,600 Speaker 1: Yeah, ages, Yeah, my brother had had many bouts of 129 00:08:33,559 --> 00:08:35,960 Speaker 1: kind of being unhoused or living in his car in 130 00:08:36,000 --> 00:08:38,960 Speaker 1: different in different regions in the country. But this was 131 00:08:39,040 --> 00:08:42,120 Speaker 1: about ten years ago, and so I'm like, helld am, 132 00:08:42,160 --> 00:08:43,959 Speaker 1: I I always have to He was in his early 133 00:08:44,000 --> 00:08:47,040 Speaker 1: thirties at all time, so he wasn't a kid, yeah, 134 00:08:47,120 --> 00:08:48,439 Speaker 1: or late twenties, late twenties. 135 00:08:48,520 --> 00:08:51,760 Speaker 2: But the point is he'd been if the onset of 136 00:08:51,760 --> 00:08:54,000 Speaker 2: this was middle school, more than half his life. He'd 137 00:08:54,040 --> 00:08:54,720 Speaker 2: been struggling. 138 00:08:54,800 --> 00:08:57,319 Speaker 1: That's right, Yeah, it was. He was not a kid. 139 00:08:57,520 --> 00:09:00,120 Speaker 2: Before you go on, and I'm sorry, but I I 140 00:09:01,480 --> 00:09:03,840 Speaker 2: really think it's remained of the story, and I think 141 00:09:03,880 --> 00:09:06,920 Speaker 2: it matters so that we have real perspective as to 142 00:09:07,000 --> 00:09:11,840 Speaker 2: your passion behind what amazing thing this whole procure impact 143 00:09:11,960 --> 00:09:16,080 Speaker 2: is because it doesn't just well, I'll get to the 144 00:09:16,480 --> 00:09:20,560 Speaker 2: word impact, which I think is interesting. But did he 145 00:09:20,720 --> 00:09:27,080 Speaker 2: ever have times of stark lucidity that with you and 146 00:09:27,160 --> 00:09:33,720 Speaker 2: his parents? Your parents, he would say, you know, I 147 00:09:33,760 --> 00:09:36,640 Speaker 2: feel lost. I don't want to be this way, you know, 148 00:09:38,960 --> 00:09:43,400 Speaker 2: I think everybody can see the story unfolding of the 149 00:09:43,400 --> 00:09:46,240 Speaker 2: wheels coming off, But what about the times where the 150 00:09:46,240 --> 00:09:49,960 Speaker 2: wheels weren't coming off? How was his interaction with you? Then? 151 00:09:50,800 --> 00:09:54,719 Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean that's such an important question because I definitely, 152 00:09:54,880 --> 00:09:57,439 Speaker 1: even though I'm painting this picture of how difficult those 153 00:09:57,480 --> 00:10:03,440 Speaker 1: times were. My brother has always been incredibly gifted. He's 154 00:10:03,520 --> 00:10:09,199 Speaker 1: a writer, he's a musician, he is as an artist, 155 00:10:09,960 --> 00:10:15,079 Speaker 1: he is philosophical, he is incredibly bright. He always got 156 00:10:15,080 --> 00:10:19,520 Speaker 1: good grades in school, and so he was able to 157 00:10:19,600 --> 00:10:22,520 Speaker 1: contribute at times, and he would get the job. He 158 00:10:22,559 --> 00:10:25,520 Speaker 1: would actually sometimes get a job and then get promoted. 159 00:10:26,280 --> 00:10:29,720 Speaker 1: But his ability to maintain was always That's why I 160 00:10:29,760 --> 00:10:33,680 Speaker 1: described it like groundhog Day. He would have incidents where 161 00:10:33,720 --> 00:10:36,880 Speaker 1: his mental health would turn or the stress would get 162 00:10:36,920 --> 00:10:40,600 Speaker 1: too much, and figuring out that right balance to help 163 00:10:40,679 --> 00:10:44,520 Speaker 1: him live sustainably and manage his health took a very 164 00:10:44,520 --> 00:10:47,760 Speaker 1: long time. But to your point, oftentimes in those early days, 165 00:10:47,840 --> 00:10:50,800 Speaker 1: there's a lack of self awareness about what's going on, 166 00:10:51,400 --> 00:10:54,239 Speaker 1: and until you get to the point of seeing the patterns, 167 00:10:54,679 --> 00:10:59,719 Speaker 1: understanding the triggers, understanding how to manage through them, you're 168 00:10:59,760 --> 00:11:02,199 Speaker 1: off and on that roller coaster and cycle. 169 00:11:02,520 --> 00:11:09,040 Speaker 2: The roller coaster part for him, certainly, But I can 170 00:11:09,160 --> 00:11:14,920 Speaker 2: only imagine the desperation replaced by excitement and hope by 171 00:11:15,000 --> 00:11:17,840 Speaker 2: the people that love him, you and his parents that okay, 172 00:11:17,880 --> 00:11:21,320 Speaker 2: maybe now he's on the right track, and then just 173 00:11:21,400 --> 00:11:26,559 Speaker 2: the gut punch when he fell off again. How how 174 00:11:27,440 --> 00:11:31,600 Speaker 2: emotionally tolling. That has to be the love and care 175 00:11:31,679 --> 00:11:35,960 Speaker 2: for somebody that's dealing with all of these types of issues. 176 00:11:37,480 --> 00:11:42,160 Speaker 1: Absolutely, I mean the devastation when you know it's not 177 00:11:42,320 --> 00:11:42,800 Speaker 1: his fault. 178 00:11:43,920 --> 00:11:47,120 Speaker 2: I know me, I'd be mad at him at first. 179 00:11:48,320 --> 00:11:51,720 Speaker 2: That's only a natural human reaction to what are you doing? 180 00:11:51,800 --> 00:11:54,000 Speaker 2: You know better? Because when you were lucid you told 181 00:11:54,040 --> 00:11:57,400 Speaker 2: me you knew better? But then to have to train 182 00:11:57,480 --> 00:12:00,559 Speaker 2: your brain and make sure that the human of you 183 00:12:00,720 --> 00:12:05,280 Speaker 2: understands he's sick. He doesn't want this for him anymore 184 00:12:05,320 --> 00:12:09,280 Speaker 2: than we want this for him, and he's sick. But 185 00:12:10,040 --> 00:12:12,600 Speaker 2: the whole emotional rollercoaster for him and his loved ones 186 00:12:12,640 --> 00:12:16,400 Speaker 2: and everything else, and for people like him suffering with 187 00:12:16,559 --> 00:12:20,240 Speaker 2: mental health issues, and then often self medicating, which makes 188 00:12:20,240 --> 00:12:23,760 Speaker 2: the whole thing worse because alcohol leads to weed, and 189 00:12:23,760 --> 00:12:26,560 Speaker 2: we leads to whatever else, and then that leads to 190 00:12:26,800 --> 00:12:29,840 Speaker 2: severe addiction. That's horrible. 191 00:12:31,640 --> 00:12:36,120 Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean it for our family. You know, those 192 00:12:36,160 --> 00:12:38,840 Speaker 1: early days, you're just in triage mode, you know, and 193 00:12:38,880 --> 00:12:43,160 Speaker 1: then when the patterns continue to show themselves, you start 194 00:12:43,200 --> 00:12:46,800 Speaker 1: to lose perspective about what's possible because you're just sort 195 00:12:46,840 --> 00:12:49,720 Speaker 1: of managing the current state. 196 00:12:49,880 --> 00:12:52,959 Speaker 2: Like you lose everything's reactionery. 197 00:12:53,080 --> 00:12:56,280 Speaker 1: You're in that fight or flight mode, you know, just 198 00:12:56,320 --> 00:13:00,600 Speaker 1: trying to triage and firefight through the next wave. And 199 00:13:01,679 --> 00:13:03,920 Speaker 1: I think we were in that for many years. I 200 00:13:03,960 --> 00:13:06,840 Speaker 1: think that was the reality of my family dynamic, as 201 00:13:06,880 --> 00:13:08,959 Speaker 1: we were just kind of waiting for a shoe to drop. 202 00:13:13,000 --> 00:13:16,160 Speaker 2: And now a few messages from our gender sponsors. But first, 203 00:13:16,800 --> 00:13:19,839 Speaker 2: I hope you'll consider signing up to join the army 204 00:13:20,160 --> 00:13:23,760 Speaker 2: at normal folks dot us. By signing up, you'll receive 205 00:13:23,800 --> 00:13:27,240 Speaker 2: a weekly email with short episodes summaries in case you 206 00:13:27,320 --> 00:13:30,480 Speaker 2: happen to miss an episode, or if you prefer reading 207 00:13:30,520 --> 00:13:48,200 Speaker 2: about our incredible guests, we'll be right back, all right, 208 00:13:48,280 --> 00:13:53,240 Speaker 2: last emotional question on this. You said he was smart, 209 00:13:53,320 --> 00:13:58,600 Speaker 2: you said he's aware, but he's not suffering a break 210 00:13:58,880 --> 00:14:02,079 Speaker 2: or whatever words you meant I call it. I would 211 00:14:02,120 --> 00:14:04,439 Speaker 2: have to believe that on top of everything else. Your 212 00:14:04,440 --> 00:14:07,000 Speaker 2: poor brother's dealing with is shame. 213 00:14:09,200 --> 00:14:13,960 Speaker 1: For many years. I think he especially now that he 214 00:14:15,200 --> 00:14:18,200 Speaker 1: has perspective on the past and can really look at 215 00:14:18,640 --> 00:14:22,080 Speaker 1: his actions. Yeah, there's a lot of things that he 216 00:14:22,280 --> 00:14:28,520 Speaker 1: knows he did, or mistakes he made, or opportunities he lost. 217 00:14:29,680 --> 00:14:33,640 Speaker 1: It's almost like watching a movie of your life, and 218 00:14:33,680 --> 00:14:39,920 Speaker 1: I think that playing in your head can be very debilitating. 219 00:14:40,760 --> 00:14:43,280 Speaker 1: And again, that's not the whole story. Like, there was 220 00:14:43,280 --> 00:14:47,480 Speaker 1: also so many bright points of good he was doing 221 00:14:47,640 --> 00:14:53,720 Speaker 1: and his potential showing during those moments. Contributions he was 222 00:14:53,760 --> 00:14:56,480 Speaker 1: making art, he was creating things, he was writing that 223 00:14:56,520 --> 00:15:01,680 Speaker 1: you knew underneath all of that there was a lot. 224 00:15:02,200 --> 00:15:05,480 Speaker 1: There was a lot. There was a well of ways 225 00:15:05,520 --> 00:15:10,320 Speaker 1: he could contribute and add value and almost like figuring 226 00:15:10,320 --> 00:15:13,800 Speaker 1: out how to move your attention towards those negative things, 227 00:15:13,800 --> 00:15:16,040 Speaker 1: but make those your north star. How do we help 228 00:15:16,080 --> 00:15:17,760 Speaker 1: you do more of that? How do we help you 229 00:15:17,920 --> 00:15:20,760 Speaker 1: create more consistency to be able to pull those things out? 230 00:15:21,400 --> 00:15:25,800 Speaker 1: But I mean, when I look back, it's hard to imagine, 231 00:15:25,880 --> 00:15:29,360 Speaker 1: like putting myself in his shoes, It's really hard to 232 00:15:29,440 --> 00:15:32,720 Speaker 1: imagine getting up every day and trying. 233 00:15:32,720 --> 00:15:35,080 Speaker 2: Again, I can hear in your words and seeing your 234 00:15:35,760 --> 00:15:38,920 Speaker 2: face and your body movements as you talk about it, 235 00:15:39,280 --> 00:15:43,640 Speaker 2: the great EmPATH that you speak about this with, and 236 00:15:44,120 --> 00:15:46,600 Speaker 2: there's so much good that's about to come in the story. 237 00:15:47,320 --> 00:15:49,720 Speaker 2: But I think it's really important for all of those 238 00:15:50,120 --> 00:15:54,760 Speaker 2: listening to us now that they understand that mental health 239 00:15:54,760 --> 00:16:00,600 Speaker 2: issues and folks that have disabilities and addictions, the homeless 240 00:16:00,600 --> 00:16:02,560 Speaker 2: person you see on the street that you try to 241 00:16:02,600 --> 00:16:08,160 Speaker 2: avoid is only a piece of the story typically, and 242 00:16:08,200 --> 00:16:11,200 Speaker 2: you have to think about how difficult it is for 243 00:16:11,320 --> 00:16:14,360 Speaker 2: somebody who has a mental health issue or addiction or 244 00:16:14,400 --> 00:16:17,600 Speaker 2: both that they're also dealing with their own shame and 245 00:16:17,680 --> 00:16:24,360 Speaker 2: their own issues on top of everything else. And we 246 00:16:24,800 --> 00:16:31,320 Speaker 2: need to look past the overly Oh you know, I 247 00:16:31,360 --> 00:16:34,720 Speaker 2: think we all see the homeless person outside the convenience 248 00:16:34,720 --> 00:16:41,040 Speaker 2: store looking for a buck, and unfortunately many times we 249 00:16:41,080 --> 00:16:43,600 Speaker 2: sum that up. And I think it's important that we 250 00:16:43,640 --> 00:16:45,920 Speaker 2: don't sum that up. And I think you know, your 251 00:16:46,040 --> 00:16:50,280 Speaker 2: candor about your brother gives that some perspective, So thank 252 00:16:50,320 --> 00:16:53,760 Speaker 2: you for kind of going into that. But the point 253 00:16:53,840 --> 00:16:58,360 Speaker 2: is he was homeless, and he was under addiction, and 254 00:16:58,400 --> 00:17:02,280 Speaker 2: he was in his early twenty and something amazing happened. 255 00:17:03,640 --> 00:17:08,320 Speaker 1: Yeah, so he he was pretty in a desperate place 256 00:17:09,280 --> 00:17:11,640 Speaker 1: for a very long time, and there was this one 257 00:17:11,920 --> 00:17:16,040 Speaker 1: season that I referenced before where he just took off 258 00:17:16,280 --> 00:17:21,000 Speaker 1: without a jacket or cell phone during freezing temperatures in 259 00:17:21,080 --> 00:17:26,480 Speaker 1: the DC area, and we for many days were working 260 00:17:26,520 --> 00:17:31,040 Speaker 1: with police to try to locate him, and it had 261 00:17:31,040 --> 00:17:33,239 Speaker 1: gotten pretty desperate. And to give you a sense, at 262 00:17:33,280 --> 00:17:36,159 Speaker 1: the time, I remember this story distinctly, there was a 263 00:17:36,200 --> 00:17:39,160 Speaker 1: man who walked off from like a home depot, who 264 00:17:39,359 --> 00:17:43,720 Speaker 1: had dementia, and he was found frozen to death outside. 265 00:17:43,800 --> 00:17:48,520 Speaker 1: So we were really incredibly worried about his well being, 266 00:17:49,440 --> 00:17:53,920 Speaker 1: not having access to medication, obviously not prepared for the elements, 267 00:17:54,240 --> 00:17:57,280 Speaker 1: and I remember at first the cops were a little 268 00:17:57,280 --> 00:18:00,320 Speaker 1: bit like, he's probably at a friend's house, you know, 269 00:18:00,440 --> 00:18:03,639 Speaker 1: he's probably okay, and we're like, no, he's not okay. 270 00:18:05,680 --> 00:18:10,520 Speaker 1: We as a family got to a pretty desperate point 271 00:18:10,560 --> 00:18:14,080 Speaker 1: about a week in and we ended up going public 272 00:18:14,280 --> 00:18:20,800 Speaker 1: with our story and we posted on social media and 273 00:18:20,840 --> 00:18:23,440 Speaker 1: it kind of went viral in a very short amount 274 00:18:23,480 --> 00:18:27,359 Speaker 1: of time. Thousands of people were reposting. I was getting 275 00:18:27,400 --> 00:18:30,880 Speaker 1: calls from people who were, you know, flyering in certain communities, 276 00:18:31,640 --> 00:18:35,800 Speaker 1: and a miracle happened. I mean, it's it's the only 277 00:18:35,840 --> 00:18:39,399 Speaker 1: really the way to describe it is that a complete 278 00:18:39,640 --> 00:18:45,000 Speaker 1: stranger who had seen a man walking on the side 279 00:18:45,000 --> 00:18:47,440 Speaker 1: of the road without a jacket and then thought that's 280 00:18:47,520 --> 00:18:51,639 Speaker 1: that's odd, happened to see the post and social media 281 00:18:51,760 --> 00:18:56,439 Speaker 1: like twenty minutes later, and that person was a pregnant rabbi. 282 00:18:56,600 --> 00:18:58,800 Speaker 1: I mean, you can't make this stuff out. Yeah, she's 283 00:18:58,960 --> 00:19:02,000 Speaker 1: literally about to give birth, has the baby like two 284 00:19:02,040 --> 00:19:04,119 Speaker 1: weeks later, she has two kids in the car and 285 00:19:04,160 --> 00:19:09,280 Speaker 1: her husband, and she sees this social media post and said, 286 00:19:09,320 --> 00:19:12,800 Speaker 1: I think that's who we saw twenty minutes ago. And 287 00:19:12,840 --> 00:19:18,879 Speaker 1: that family decides to turn around and my brother is 288 00:19:18,880 --> 00:19:22,479 Speaker 1: actually not where he was, but they keep searching and 289 00:19:22,520 --> 00:19:26,200 Speaker 1: they find him. And I'm on Facebook at the time 290 00:19:26,359 --> 00:19:29,560 Speaker 1: seeing this complete stranger like documenting, Hey, we think we 291 00:19:29,600 --> 00:19:34,040 Speaker 1: saw him. We're turning around. People are commenting on it 292 00:19:34,080 --> 00:19:37,800 Speaker 1: and boosting it on my page, and they found my brother, 293 00:19:38,760 --> 00:19:44,040 Speaker 1: called the police, called us, and he was in a 294 00:19:44,040 --> 00:19:47,200 Speaker 1: pretty bad spot at that point. Had he stayed outside 295 00:19:47,240 --> 00:19:51,120 Speaker 1: any longer, it's very likely he would have had frostbite. 296 00:19:51,160 --> 00:19:54,000 Speaker 1: Like there's no way he would have been able to 297 00:19:54,000 --> 00:19:59,680 Speaker 1: survive those elements. And I mean, I just sat there sobbing. 298 00:20:00,160 --> 00:20:03,760 Speaker 1: This was a complete stranger who just decided to take 299 00:20:03,840 --> 00:20:08,840 Speaker 1: action without any direct connection to me or my family. 300 00:20:10,160 --> 00:20:14,560 Speaker 1: And for my brother, that led to you know, him 301 00:20:14,600 --> 00:20:17,399 Speaker 1: getting help in us really stabilizing him at that time 302 00:20:19,040 --> 00:20:23,760 Speaker 1: and very that same time frame. You know, I mentioned 303 00:20:23,800 --> 00:20:27,880 Speaker 1: my brother was always a creative, a writer, an artist. 304 00:20:28,320 --> 00:20:32,199 Speaker 1: My brother was painting to help himself process what he 305 00:20:32,240 --> 00:20:35,800 Speaker 1: was going through. And he's a very gifted artist. He's 306 00:20:35,840 --> 00:20:38,760 Speaker 1: never been taught, you know, in formal way. He's always 307 00:20:38,800 --> 00:20:42,800 Speaker 1: just had intuition around his art. And at a time 308 00:20:43,400 --> 00:20:46,159 Speaker 1: when he was still in the thhroes of that whole episode, 309 00:20:46,320 --> 00:20:53,000 Speaker 1: he applied for an organization that represents artists with disabilities, 310 00:20:53,280 --> 00:20:55,800 Speaker 1: and he applied. He sent them some pictures of his art, 311 00:20:56,560 --> 00:20:58,359 Speaker 1: and I remember thinking like, oh, I wish you had 312 00:20:58,359 --> 00:21:00,160 Speaker 1: worked with me. I wish I could have helped you. 313 00:21:00,200 --> 00:21:02,840 Speaker 1: Like I immediately was kind of big sistering it and 314 00:21:02,880 --> 00:21:05,879 Speaker 1: trying to intervene, and he knew what he was doing. 315 00:21:05,960 --> 00:21:11,439 Speaker 1: He applied and showed them some really wonderful pieces and 316 00:21:11,480 --> 00:21:14,639 Speaker 1: they ended up picking him to become one of their artists. 317 00:21:14,640 --> 00:21:18,920 Speaker 1: It's an organization called Artlifting, and they specifically represent artists 318 00:21:18,920 --> 00:21:22,080 Speaker 1: who've been on house and artists with disabilities, and they 319 00:21:22,080 --> 00:21:26,280 Speaker 1: started representing him and his art to corporate buyers. And 320 00:21:26,320 --> 00:21:29,800 Speaker 1: the very long story short there is that he started getting, 321 00:21:30,160 --> 00:21:33,120 Speaker 1: you know, some random companies buying pieces of his art. 322 00:21:34,440 --> 00:21:37,880 Speaker 1: One point, Fizer bought a painting at an airport, bought 323 00:21:37,920 --> 00:21:41,119 Speaker 1: a painting, and in each purchase, he was getting this 324 00:21:41,200 --> 00:21:44,720 Speaker 1: confidence boost, right, like he felt seen, he felt valued. 325 00:21:45,920 --> 00:21:50,480 Speaker 1: And then truly something miraculous happened, which is that Amazon 326 00:21:51,480 --> 00:21:54,040 Speaker 1: was building one of their data centers in the DC 327 00:21:54,200 --> 00:21:59,840 Speaker 1: area and they wanted to pick a unknown DC area 328 00:22:00,119 --> 00:22:03,800 Speaker 1: artists and they chose my brother. They picked eight of 329 00:22:03,840 --> 00:22:08,960 Speaker 1: his original paintings for that building. It's ten thousand dollars. 330 00:22:09,240 --> 00:22:13,440 Speaker 1: It's literally more than he'd ever earned, Like he'd never 331 00:22:13,480 --> 00:22:16,399 Speaker 1: seen a ten thousand dollars check at that point, and 332 00:22:17,240 --> 00:22:20,320 Speaker 1: it completely changed his life that one purchase. 333 00:22:20,440 --> 00:22:23,360 Speaker 2: At all of this is happening generally in the same 334 00:22:23,400 --> 00:22:25,399 Speaker 2: time period where he's walking down the street without a 335 00:22:25,440 --> 00:22:26,600 Speaker 2: code about to die. 336 00:22:26,720 --> 00:22:31,360 Speaker 1: This is the same timeframe. So when he applied he 337 00:22:31,480 --> 00:22:33,960 Speaker 1: was getting help. He was still in like sort of 338 00:22:33,960 --> 00:22:39,120 Speaker 1: medical care, getting help, and so it was just this 339 00:22:39,560 --> 00:22:44,840 Speaker 1: absolute god send, Right, he gets this ten thousand dollars check. 340 00:22:45,560 --> 00:22:49,000 Speaker 1: But obviously ten thousand dollars isn't enough to sustain you, right, 341 00:22:49,040 --> 00:22:51,600 Speaker 1: it's not an income, it's not going to provide housing, 342 00:22:51,640 --> 00:22:55,159 Speaker 1: it's not going to solve all your problems. But he 343 00:22:55,280 --> 00:22:57,040 Speaker 1: started to call himself an artist. 344 00:22:59,280 --> 00:23:01,800 Speaker 2: That indicates self worth. 345 00:23:01,840 --> 00:23:06,119 Speaker 1: Value absolutely, like that was his job, right, that was 346 00:23:06,160 --> 00:23:11,679 Speaker 1: his vocation. He ended up taking some of that money. 347 00:23:12,200 --> 00:23:16,440 Speaker 1: He rented an art studio in Frederick, Maryland, and so 348 00:23:16,480 --> 00:23:19,040 Speaker 1: he had a place to go to paint in this 349 00:23:19,240 --> 00:23:19,960 Speaker 1: art community. 350 00:23:20,200 --> 00:23:23,439 Speaker 2: So now I have value an agency. 351 00:23:22,440 --> 00:23:27,560 Speaker 1: Exactly, and community and purpose and a place to go 352 00:23:27,720 --> 00:23:31,520 Speaker 1: every day. And he was incredibly prolific during that time 353 00:23:31,560 --> 00:23:33,240 Speaker 1: and just painted all the time. 354 00:23:36,320 --> 00:23:37,560 Speaker 2: We'll be right back. 355 00:23:52,359 --> 00:23:57,520 Speaker 1: When we fast forward. That check really acted as a 356 00:23:57,600 --> 00:24:01,159 Speaker 1: trigger for a mindset change what he was capable of 357 00:24:01,200 --> 00:24:05,600 Speaker 1: and what he can contribute to society, and it propelled 358 00:24:05,680 --> 00:24:07,920 Speaker 1: him to have more confidence in all other aspects of 359 00:24:07,960 --> 00:24:11,719 Speaker 1: his life. He ended up moving out of my parents' house, 360 00:24:12,720 --> 00:24:15,840 Speaker 1: you know. A year or so later he ended up 361 00:24:16,040 --> 00:24:19,359 Speaker 1: meeting the love of his life. And you fast forward 362 00:24:19,400 --> 00:24:26,320 Speaker 1: to today. My brother is married, he is employed full time, 363 00:24:27,760 --> 00:24:32,159 Speaker 1: he is helping others. His vocation now is actually as 364 00:24:32,200 --> 00:24:35,480 Speaker 1: a recovery support specialist. He actually helps other people who've 365 00:24:35,520 --> 00:24:38,719 Speaker 1: dealt with mental health issues and addiction, and he's painting 366 00:24:38,760 --> 00:24:41,760 Speaker 1: on the side. He has an organization he started with 367 00:24:41,800 --> 00:24:44,080 Speaker 1: his wife called Art from the Heart, with a gift 368 00:24:44,119 --> 00:24:47,520 Speaker 1: free art to help people who are dealing with challenges. 369 00:24:49,119 --> 00:24:55,160 Speaker 1: He took that moment, that inflection point, that surge opportunity 370 00:24:55,200 --> 00:24:59,320 Speaker 1: that Amazon provided him through that purchase, and it became 371 00:24:59,359 --> 00:25:02,880 Speaker 1: the springboard for him. And so when all of that 372 00:25:02,920 --> 00:25:06,440 Speaker 1: was happening, you know, I had tried so many ways 373 00:25:06,440 --> 00:25:09,359 Speaker 1: to help my brother right, get him into programs, get 374 00:25:09,440 --> 00:25:13,480 Speaker 1: him access to you know, various different support services. But 375 00:25:13,560 --> 00:25:17,160 Speaker 1: what ultimately helped him was getting access to opportunity where 376 00:25:17,200 --> 00:25:22,040 Speaker 1: he could leverage his gifts and feel seen and earn 377 00:25:22,080 --> 00:25:27,639 Speaker 1: income and build confidence, which then became that transitionary period 378 00:25:27,640 --> 00:25:31,600 Speaker 1: for him that helped him stabilize and live the life 379 00:25:31,600 --> 00:25:34,720 Speaker 1: he was always wanting to live. And you know, when 380 00:25:34,720 --> 00:25:38,919 Speaker 1: we were talking before about this dark period, you know 381 00:25:39,720 --> 00:25:42,320 Speaker 1: that we had as a family, like this was not 382 00:25:42,440 --> 00:25:44,000 Speaker 1: a conceivable outcome for me. 383 00:25:45,880 --> 00:25:49,800 Speaker 2: I was wondering, was there ever a time before this 384 00:25:49,920 --> 00:25:52,600 Speaker 2: that you actually would allow yourself to believe that he 385 00:25:52,640 --> 00:25:57,200 Speaker 2: would be married and happy and productive in society. 386 00:25:58,480 --> 00:26:02,920 Speaker 1: Not hoped, No, I I I mean the truth is, 387 00:26:03,280 --> 00:26:07,400 Speaker 1: you get so used to living in crisis that that 388 00:26:07,720 --> 00:26:14,520 Speaker 1: felt almost like too hard to dream that big for him, 389 00:26:15,119 --> 00:26:18,440 Speaker 1: And and and my vision for him wasn't as big 390 00:26:18,480 --> 00:26:22,240 Speaker 1: as his vision has become for himself. Like it's I'm 391 00:26:22,280 --> 00:26:28,080 Speaker 1: so proud of him for pushing through which which most 392 00:26:28,119 --> 00:26:34,119 Speaker 1: people would realize and understand, is like incredible barriers to 393 00:26:34,920 --> 00:26:38,000 Speaker 1: where he is now and what he's building and the 394 00:26:38,080 --> 00:26:40,920 Speaker 1: serve the way he is serving others, like he's also 395 00:26:41,080 --> 00:26:44,840 Speaker 1: chosen a job and a vocation, and the way where 396 00:26:44,880 --> 00:26:47,040 Speaker 1: he spends his time to actually reach back into the 397 00:26:47,080 --> 00:26:52,000 Speaker 1: community and help other people. It is, it is mind 398 00:26:52,000 --> 00:26:52,560 Speaker 1: blowing to me. 399 00:26:53,880 --> 00:26:59,680 Speaker 2: So no doubt that's a celebration for your family and 400 00:26:59,680 --> 00:27:04,560 Speaker 2: for him. But I think it's so vitally important that 401 00:27:04,720 --> 00:27:08,359 Speaker 2: you learned firsthand through the eyes of your brother and 402 00:27:08,400 --> 00:27:13,840 Speaker 2: your experience with your brother, that value, community agency, All 403 00:27:13,920 --> 00:27:17,520 Speaker 2: of those things really is the anecdote to so much 404 00:27:17,560 --> 00:27:22,280 Speaker 2: of what ales some of the most disadvantaged among us. 405 00:27:23,400 --> 00:27:27,800 Speaker 2: So about the same time you're working at Stand Together, 406 00:27:27,920 --> 00:27:30,560 Speaker 2: Is that right? I was, Yeah, Yeah, tell everybody about 407 00:27:30,560 --> 00:27:32,520 Speaker 2: Stand Together. And what you were doing there. 408 00:27:32,760 --> 00:27:36,679 Speaker 1: Yeah. Stand Together is a philanthropic community that is working 409 00:27:36,720 --> 00:27:40,600 Speaker 1: on different solutions that help people break these barriers to opportunity. 410 00:27:41,800 --> 00:27:46,359 Speaker 2: Can you explain that a little more talk to a 411 00:27:46,440 --> 00:27:49,600 Speaker 2: dumb guy from Memphis so that because you know, our 412 00:27:49,640 --> 00:27:54,240 Speaker 2: listeners are much smarter than me, but just don't use 413 00:27:54,280 --> 00:27:54,960 Speaker 2: big words. 414 00:27:55,240 --> 00:28:00,159 Speaker 1: Sure. So Stand Together is a community of philanthropists and 415 00:28:00,240 --> 00:28:03,679 Speaker 1: change makers and they are investing in solutions to some 416 00:28:03,720 --> 00:28:07,320 Speaker 1: of our biggest problems in society. And they have a 417 00:28:07,440 --> 00:28:11,720 Speaker 1: number of different strategies of how they invest in things 418 00:28:11,760 --> 00:28:15,560 Speaker 1: around social change. So they invest in education, they invest 419 00:28:15,600 --> 00:28:19,800 Speaker 1: in business, they invest in communities. And where I sat 420 00:28:19,960 --> 00:28:23,200 Speaker 1: within that broader strategy is I was actually one of 421 00:28:23,240 --> 00:28:26,800 Speaker 1: the first employees that was building their efforts in communities. 422 00:28:27,320 --> 00:28:30,199 Speaker 1: And what brought me to that work was actually leaders 423 00:28:30,240 --> 00:28:33,080 Speaker 1: in Stand Together, actually knowing about my experience with my 424 00:28:33,119 --> 00:28:36,000 Speaker 1: brother and my lived experience, my passion in my heart 425 00:28:36,320 --> 00:28:40,160 Speaker 1: or civil society solutions, bottom up solutions to help people 426 00:28:40,240 --> 00:28:41,160 Speaker 1: improve their lives. 427 00:28:41,400 --> 00:28:44,040 Speaker 2: Talk about bottomber well. 428 00:28:44,560 --> 00:28:48,120 Speaker 1: It stand Together And I personally deeply believe, given my 429 00:28:48,200 --> 00:28:51,520 Speaker 1: lived experience, that the people closest to the problem are 430 00:28:51,560 --> 00:28:55,680 Speaker 1: often the ones that are most equipped to solve the problem. 431 00:28:55,760 --> 00:28:58,960 Speaker 1: And you know, my story is an example of that, frankly, 432 00:28:59,080 --> 00:29:03,360 Speaker 1: because my experience with my brother helped me gain insights 433 00:29:03,360 --> 00:29:06,920 Speaker 1: into where there was an opportunity in a gap and 434 00:29:07,360 --> 00:29:10,160 Speaker 1: we had stand together. When I was there, invested in 435 00:29:10,240 --> 00:29:13,280 Speaker 1: models that were helping people break the cycle of poverty, 436 00:29:14,000 --> 00:29:17,080 Speaker 1: and obviously a job is one of the most impactful 437 00:29:17,120 --> 00:29:20,240 Speaker 1: ways to do that sustainably, and so we were investing 438 00:29:20,280 --> 00:29:23,960 Speaker 1: in a lot of workforce development programs at the time, 439 00:29:24,560 --> 00:29:27,560 Speaker 1: and I would travel all over the country and see 440 00:29:27,560 --> 00:29:30,800 Speaker 1: these amazing programs that were helping people tap into their 441 00:29:30,920 --> 00:29:35,400 Speaker 1: innate gifts and talents and skills by helping them learn 442 00:29:35,480 --> 00:29:40,160 Speaker 1: new services or build products. And when all of that 443 00:29:40,240 --> 00:29:43,680 Speaker 1: was happening with my brother, the thing that kept me 444 00:29:43,840 --> 00:29:47,960 Speaker 1: up at night was how do we scale what happened 445 00:29:48,000 --> 00:29:51,040 Speaker 1: to my brother, Like, how do we make it easier 446 00:29:52,000 --> 00:29:55,920 Speaker 1: for people who are buying products, companies that are buying 447 00:29:56,000 --> 00:30:00,840 Speaker 1: products to find products made by people who have gifts 448 00:30:00,920 --> 00:30:05,280 Speaker 1: just like my brother, extraordinary people with extraordinary talents. Because 449 00:30:05,320 --> 00:30:09,320 Speaker 1: what ultimately changed his life wasn't more charity, It was 450 00:30:09,960 --> 00:30:10,560 Speaker 1: a purchase. 451 00:30:11,080 --> 00:30:14,280 Speaker 2: Let's talk about that for a second. Yeah, Well, let's 452 00:30:14,320 --> 00:30:16,320 Speaker 2: go back and then talk about that for a second, 453 00:30:16,480 --> 00:30:22,479 Speaker 2: because we're starting to get to the to your right idea? 454 00:30:23,360 --> 00:30:28,959 Speaker 2: Is I am? You know? 455 00:30:30,560 --> 00:30:30,720 Speaker 1: Or not? 456 00:30:31,000 --> 00:30:34,680 Speaker 2: Own a lumber company? On football coach? You know? Pretty simple? 457 00:30:35,800 --> 00:30:39,640 Speaker 2: And I, like everybody, I have thoughts about things and 458 00:30:39,720 --> 00:30:42,720 Speaker 2: how things should work, and probably most of them are wrong, 459 00:30:42,800 --> 00:30:45,680 Speaker 2: and every once in a while I'm right, I guess. 460 00:30:50,280 --> 00:30:56,200 Speaker 2: Before being introduced to the platform of stand together, which 461 00:30:56,280 --> 00:30:58,600 Speaker 2: I wouldn't have ever been introduced to if it wasn't 462 00:30:58,640 --> 00:31:02,640 Speaker 2: for the Alex the doucer dragging me into this world, 463 00:31:03,600 --> 00:31:08,560 Speaker 2: which I often do kicking and screaming. I never even 464 00:31:08,600 --> 00:31:14,000 Speaker 2: contemplated this idea of bottom up verse top down. Those 465 00:31:14,000 --> 00:31:17,440 Speaker 2: are like phrases that people that go to Ivy League 466 00:31:17,440 --> 00:31:21,000 Speaker 2: schools use. I mean, I'm from all miss nobody talks 467 00:31:21,000 --> 00:31:24,840 Speaker 2: about stuff like that, right, I don't even know when 468 00:31:24,840 --> 00:31:28,520 Speaker 2: I first heard it. I was like another catchphrase, you know. 469 00:31:28,840 --> 00:31:31,440 Speaker 2: I mean, I just really, honestly, I mean bottom up 470 00:31:31,560 --> 00:31:33,800 Speaker 2: verse top down. I mean that sounds good and I'm 471 00:31:33,800 --> 00:31:35,680 Speaker 2: sure it looks good in a pamphlet. What the hell 472 00:31:35,720 --> 00:31:42,080 Speaker 2: does that mean? Right? And so I keep hearing it 473 00:31:42,120 --> 00:31:47,040 Speaker 2: all the time, and then introduced to stand together, and 474 00:31:48,320 --> 00:31:51,320 Speaker 2: I think you did a good job explaining bottom up, 475 00:31:52,280 --> 00:31:53,600 Speaker 2: Why don't you explain top down? 476 00:31:55,040 --> 00:31:58,720 Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean the kind of classic example is how 477 00:31:58,760 --> 00:32:04,080 Speaker 1: we attacked poverty for so long through we as a country, right, 478 00:32:04,200 --> 00:32:09,080 Speaker 1: We as a country for many years would design programs 479 00:32:09,280 --> 00:32:13,720 Speaker 1: in Washington, d c. Study the problem, and then fund 480 00:32:13,840 --> 00:32:17,320 Speaker 1: programs that met the criteria for the things that we studied, 481 00:32:18,240 --> 00:32:20,800 Speaker 1: which was very distant from the people on the ground 482 00:32:20,840 --> 00:32:23,640 Speaker 1: actually working day and day out with the people in 483 00:32:23,760 --> 00:32:28,600 Speaker 1: communities that we're dealing with those barriers themselves. And it 484 00:32:28,640 --> 00:32:32,200 Speaker 1: was very it was architected, you know, in a way 485 00:32:32,240 --> 00:32:37,400 Speaker 1: that felt very clean and academic. But when you actually 486 00:32:37,480 --> 00:32:40,720 Speaker 1: go to communities and ask them, you know, how do 487 00:32:40,840 --> 00:32:43,800 Speaker 1: you get access to a job or how do you 488 00:32:43,840 --> 00:32:47,000 Speaker 1: get access to supportive services? They'll likely tell you about 489 00:32:47,040 --> 00:32:49,800 Speaker 1: someone named sister Edna, you know, who's in the community 490 00:32:49,800 --> 00:32:53,120 Speaker 1: who's acting as a conduit. They'll tell you things about 491 00:32:53,280 --> 00:32:58,200 Speaker 1: the community themselves, like what they need, and people will 492 00:32:58,200 --> 00:33:03,440 Speaker 1: often parachute in trying to help prescribe a solution. 493 00:33:03,120 --> 00:33:05,320 Speaker 2: To an already that parting. 494 00:33:05,120 --> 00:33:10,280 Speaker 1: Versus ask the community empower them with resources to solve 495 00:33:10,360 --> 00:33:16,600 Speaker 1: the problem. 496 00:33:16,680 --> 00:33:20,040 Speaker 2: And that concludes part one of our conversation with Laurama 497 00:33:20,120 --> 00:33:22,680 Speaker 2: Cann and trust me, there's a lot more to come. 498 00:33:23,040 --> 00:33:26,200 Speaker 2: Don't miss it in part two. It's now available to 499 00:33:26,280 --> 00:33:29,760 Speaker 2: listen to you. Together, guys, we can change this country. 500 00:33:30,120 --> 00:33:32,720 Speaker 2: It starts with you. I'll see in Part two.