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Speaker 1: Now here's a highlight from Coast to Coast AM on iHeartRadio. Man,

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Speaker 1: Welcome back to Coast to Coast, George nor with you.

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Speaker 1: William Peters back with us, who was last down with

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Speaker 1: our host Lisagar back in twenty seventeen, Founder of the

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Speaker 1: Shared Crossing Project, director of its research initiative, and recently

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Speaker 1: published a study on shared death experiences in the American

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Speaker 1: Journal of Hospice and Palliative Medicine. Recognized as a global

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Speaker 1: leader in the field of shared death studies, he has

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Speaker 1: spent decades studying end of life experiences, practicing grief and

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Speaker 1: bereavement therapist. He holds degrees from Harvard's Graduate School of Education,

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Speaker 1: UC Berkeley. He worked on end of life and is

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Speaker 1: informed by his therapeutic work with individuals and family members,

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Speaker 1: personal experiences with death and dying across cultures, and his

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Speaker 1: family's very own end of life journeys. William, Welcome to

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Speaker 1: the program, Looking forward to talking with you tonight. George,

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Speaker 1: good to be here. Is nothing like it. How did

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Speaker 1: you get involved in an end of grief therapy? In

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Speaker 1: terms of end of life grief therapy? You know, I

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Speaker 1: was a psychotherapist by training in for the last two decades,

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Speaker 1: but increasingly these experiences I had earlier in my life,

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Speaker 1: namely a near death experience when I was seventeen years old.

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Speaker 1: It was a high speed skiing accident and I hit

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Speaker 1: the ski slope extremely hard, crush, my spine catapulted out

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Speaker 1: of my body. You know, saw my saw my body

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Speaker 1: on the ski sloped as I moved away from it quickly,

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Speaker 1: very enamored, and you know, you're very familiar as is

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Speaker 1: your audience, I'm sure, with near death experiences. It was

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Speaker 1: a classic NDE in the sense that you know, I

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Speaker 1: could see the Earth from a satellite type view. I

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Speaker 1: had a life review of everything I'd done in the

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Speaker 1: previous seventeen years of my life. And then, unlike most

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Speaker 1: near death experiencers, I when I saw the light, although

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Speaker 1: I was you know, at peace and enthralled and feeling,

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Speaker 1: you know, these sublime feelings, I did not want to die.

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Speaker 1: I really was pleading with a god. I grew up Catholic,

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Speaker 1: and I was just saying, I have to I have

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Speaker 1: to go back. I cannot you know, leave, and I

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Speaker 1: don't know that's so unusual. When I talked to other

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Speaker 1: you know, researchers and near death experiences. They say, God,

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Speaker 1: you just don't hear that very much. Most people are

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Speaker 1: are trying to kind of stay in that realm and

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Speaker 1: they're told it's not their time. For me, it wasn't

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Speaker 1: my time either, but I was glad, so I came

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Speaker 1: back and I didn't think about that experience for a decade.

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Speaker 1: I would have another NDE, A in a I See

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Speaker 1: you in Oakland, California, had a blood and balance, an

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Speaker 1: idiopathic thromb side of peace, which is crashing platelets. This

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Speaker 1: was a much in a certain way simpler NDE. I

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Speaker 1: popped out of my body and was hovering above it

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Speaker 1: in the ICU for you know, I want to stay

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Speaker 1: between two and four hours. I didn't even I was

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Speaker 1: very comfortable. I was listening to nurses talk about the

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Speaker 1: patience and just observing very peacefully life on the tenth

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Speaker 1: floor of the ICU, and I really was a comfortable

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Speaker 1: a sense of an observing self, if you will. But

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Speaker 1: I didn't have any relationship to my physical body. It

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Speaker 1: wasn't until the doctor came in. The hematologist came in

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Speaker 1: and he tapped on my hand and I said, and

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Speaker 1: I didn't say anything. I had this question, I'd realized, oh,

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Speaker 1: that's me down there, because he's calling out my name.

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Speaker 1: I could see myself and I recognized that it was me.

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Speaker 1: But I had a choice about whether I was going

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Speaker 1: to answer him. And then my question was, which is

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Speaker 1: all coming up in real time? Is if I answer him,

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Speaker 1: will I will you hear me? Will I will will

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Speaker 1: you hear me from up here? Or will I go

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Speaker 1: back and will I go back into my body? I

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Speaker 1: decided to answer him, and as I did, I could

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Speaker 1: feel the energy come back into my physical body and

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Speaker 1: my sensations. And as I opened my eyes, as I

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Speaker 1: started to talk, and then I opened my eyes, I

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Speaker 1: fully inhabited my body. But those experiences, those two near

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Speaker 1: death experiences, really shaped me profoundly, and so I resisted

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Speaker 1: going into anything having to do with near death experiences.

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Speaker 1: At that time, I should say I didn't even know

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Speaker 1: that I had had a near death serence. I mean,

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Speaker 1: if I knew it, I just kind of knew of

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Speaker 1: it from afar, but I hadn't studied it, hadn't really

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Speaker 1: looked at it. But then there were there was an

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Speaker 1: experience where my grandmother's death, where I was pretty sure

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Speaker 1: I walked into the room a few days before she died,

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Speaker 1: and she was having conversations with you know, look like

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Speaker 1: she was having conversations with people in the room, but

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Speaker 1: they weren't there. And I saw her glancing into the distance,

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Speaker 1: and I started taking notes on what she was saying

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Speaker 1: because I couldn't interrupt her, really, and I didn't try

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Speaker 1: to interrupt her, but I sat there and I got close,

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Speaker 1: and she didn't even know I was there, so she

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Speaker 1: was clearly involved with another another state, another dimension. Took

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Speaker 1: down all the notes of what she was saying, went

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Speaker 1: back to my uncle, who's the elder in the family,

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Speaker 1: and I compared the notes with him and said, oh,

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Speaker 1: my gosh, she was talking to people from fifty sixty

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Speaker 1: years ago in her life. So there was something about

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Speaker 1: that experience kind of compounded with the other ones that

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Speaker 1: got me very interested in death and dying. I still

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Speaker 1: wasn't talking about my experiences very much, but I did

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Speaker 1: sign up to well. I applied and then was joined

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Speaker 1: the zen Hospice Project in San Francisco to work with

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Speaker 1: the dying. And I was very fortunate to work in

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Speaker 1: the public hospital setting of zen Hospice because they had

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Speaker 1: a couple of settings and this one was an open

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Speaker 1: ward twenty four bed hospice with primarily serving indigent people

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Speaker 1: of San Francisco. Well, what that meant was I was

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Speaker 1: able to be like the other volunteers were all able

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Speaker 1: to be close to the dying in a way that

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Speaker 1: you don't typically get when you're working with most people

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Speaker 1: because they have family members and such. And in this

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Speaker 1: way you had more access to them and could get

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Speaker 1: closer to them and learn more about them. And that,

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Speaker 1: as you can imagine, was at the bedside for a

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Speaker 1: lot of death. The last one I'll share, which really

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Speaker 1: solidified my trajectory was I'm reading a store to Ron,

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Speaker 1: we'll call him Ron, and he was a merchant marine

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Speaker 1: and so he loved adventure stories. So I was reading

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Speaker 1: him regularly Jack London stories Call of the Wild, and

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Speaker 1: on this afternoon, I still remembered. It was sunny and peaceful,

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Speaker 1: you know, on the hospice in the afternoon, most most

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Speaker 1: of the patients are sleeping, and here I am reading

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Speaker 1: this story to him. And Ron has been unresponsive prone

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Speaker 1: for days, so I'm not expecting much from him in

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Speaker 1: terms of community, you know, communication, But as I'm reading,

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Speaker 1: I pop out of my body and there, I am

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Speaker 1: suspended above my body while you were reading to him

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Speaker 1: what I'm reading. I'm just reading a Jack London call

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Speaker 1: of the Wild. But while you're your body, exactly while

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Speaker 1: I'm leaving to a reading to him, I pop out

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Speaker 1: of my body. And I can't explain it except that

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Speaker 1: when I was first I was aware that I was

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Speaker 1: looking down at my body, so I had that view

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Speaker 1: from above, seeing the top of my head. I could

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Speaker 1: actually even see couldn't quite read the words, but I

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Speaker 1: could see the that I was reading. You know, Ron

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Speaker 1: was unresponsive, laid out. But then all of a sudden

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Speaker 1: I looked to my right and there's Ron, and Ron

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Speaker 1: has write him there out of his body. He's out

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Speaker 1: of his body too. All I can see is his face,

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Speaker 1: and he's got a big smile and big open eyes,

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Speaker 1: as if to say, I mean, this is a telepathic communication.

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Speaker 1: Check this out. This is where I've then this is

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Speaker 1: where I said. He didn't so much say I want

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Speaker 1: to share this with you, but it was a little

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Speaker 1: bit of smugness, like check this out. And he was

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Speaker 1: pleased that I was there with him, and we shared that.

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Speaker 1: And I will say I was I was comfortable there

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Speaker 1: and to go back to the second and the I

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Speaker 1: shared in the ICU when I had the blood imbalance,

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Speaker 1: it was very similar. I was in that state, I

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Speaker 1: would say, just underneath the ceiling of the room. I

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Speaker 1: never left that dimension, if you will. So it was

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Speaker 1: what we call a co aud of body experience. I mean,

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Speaker 1: I'm you know, I'm sure you're familiar with the audi

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Speaker 1: body experience in the NDE. Well, in the SDE, we

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Speaker 1: call it a co aud of body experience. Is that

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Speaker 1: unusual the SDE, the SDE, I mean, that's a great question.

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Speaker 1: We don't know how common it is, but you know,

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Speaker 1: I'll tell you when I was presenting and as I

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Speaker 1: am presenting my research on the SDE, one thing I

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Speaker 1: hear all the time from researchers in you know, primarily

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Speaker 1: the NDE field as the dominant researchers, and that would

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Speaker 1: be closest to my field is they would say, we

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Speaker 1: know about these experiences, but we've never been able to

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Speaker 1: gather up enough cases. And that's interesting. So that goes

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Speaker 1: back to your first question, George's Well, I'm an end

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Speaker 1: of life therapist, griefrom breevement therapist. So I talked to

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Speaker 1: a lot of families who aren't grief from breavement, and

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Speaker 1: after a few sessions, they invariably would ask me, Hey,

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Speaker 1: I had this experience. I want to know, you know, basically,

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Speaker 1: was I crazy? Doc? You know, I lose my marbles

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Speaker 1: at the time of the death of my loved one,

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Speaker 1: which is you know, that's a reasonable question, because you know,

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Speaker 1: when you lose somebody, there's a good deal of upset

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Speaker 1: and stress. But I started hearing it more and more,

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Speaker 1: and then I realized if then I realized that I

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Speaker 1: had to explore this more deeply to kind of get

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Speaker 1: it your question, how common is this? So I went

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Speaker 1: on the circuit, you know, this kind of afterlife conference circuit,

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Speaker 1: and you know ions. I presented at ions all the time.

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Speaker 1: I even went to a deck the Association of Death

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Speaker 1: Educators and Counselors, a number of other similar type conferences,

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Speaker 1: and when I would give a talk afterwards, you know,

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Speaker 1: a couple dozen people would come up to me form

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Speaker 1: a line and say, I've basically never shared this with anybody,

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Speaker 1: maybe my partner, but you know, best friend, but they

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Speaker 1: didn't really know what to do with it. But now

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Speaker 1: that you've put a label on it, named it, I

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Speaker 1: am so relieved, thank you, because I thought that maybe

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Speaker 1: I had made this up so that doubting with these

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Speaker 1: people ceased and they got the affirmation that they were

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Speaker 1: looking for in the research. So now, you know, just

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Speaker 1: to cut to the chase here. In terms of the research,

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Speaker 1: at the time of the book, I and my research

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Speaker 1: team had deeply analyzed one hundred and thirty four cases.

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Speaker 1: Now we're up to two hundred and twenty five and

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Speaker 1: that and we are we have no shortage of people

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Speaker 1: who we can reach out to. I mean, all I

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Speaker 1: have to do is give a talk like I would.

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Speaker 1: There was you know, you made reference to being on

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Speaker 1: you know, Lisa Gars Coast to Coast show. A number

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Speaker 1: twenty seventeen After that show alone, I think we had

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Speaker 1: four dozen calls and from all over the world. I

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Speaker 1: realize that your program is syndicated and offered all over

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Speaker 1: calls from you know, like I said, I'm literally Australia

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Speaker 1: and other places. So hey, your website still the same

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Speaker 1: shared crossing dot com. Yes it is? Okay, good, that's amazing.

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Speaker 1: I'm going to tell you a story before the break,

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Speaker 1: will even I want you to kind of analyze this

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Speaker 1: for me, all right, A friend of twenty years who

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Speaker 1: owned his own limo company in Saint Louis, And you know,

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Speaker 1: I would use him as much as I can to

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Speaker 1: help him out. He pick me up at the airport

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Speaker 1: and he's just a great guy. Back in nineteen ninety six,

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Speaker 1: when I was doing a local show on Saint Louis

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Speaker 1: called The Nighthawk, he predicted I'd be doing coast to coast.

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Speaker 1: He said it. Well, five years later I started filling in,

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Speaker 1: and then a couple of years after that, I'm the

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Speaker 1: full time host. So he was right about that. Anyways,

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Speaker 1: a New Year's Day at night, New Year's night, not

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Speaker 1: New Year's Eve, but New Year's night the day after,

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Speaker 1: I'm at a little restaurant and he calls me up

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Speaker 1: and says, what are you doing? And I said, I'm

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Speaker 1: at this place and he said, do you mind if

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Speaker 1: I come by? And I said no, not at all.

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Speaker 1: So he came by a New Year's night, and I

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Speaker 1: have never seen him so depressed, so distraught, so out

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Speaker 1: of it in all my life, never ever. And I

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Speaker 1: kept telling his name was John, and I just said, John,

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Speaker 1: are you okay? What's wrong? And he mumbled and he said,

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Speaker 1: I made a wrong turn and I made a wrong turn.

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Speaker 1: He just wasn't making any sense anyways. I told him,

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Speaker 1: go home, you need to go home. Sunday, he sends

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Speaker 1: me a text at noon. Now he always, I mean

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Speaker 1: always responded to my texts. I sent him text based

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Speaker 1: on the one he sent me at noon. No response,

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Speaker 1: no response all night Sunday, no response Monday, all day Monday,

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Speaker 1: no response. Finally, I'm at a point where I'm going

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Speaker 1: this is really weird. So I told a friend of

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Speaker 1: mine and he said, I'm calling them police. He calls

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Speaker 1: the cops, and the cops say, you're the seventh person

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Speaker 1: to call us about this person. We think we're going

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Speaker 1: to go to the house and see what's going on.

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Speaker 1: So they did when they found him dead in his bedroom.

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Speaker 1: So I'm guessing he had died sometime Sunday when he

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Speaker 1: never responded to me. But I felt something weird that

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Speaker 1: night I was with him on New Year's Night. What

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Speaker 1: made me feel that way? Well, what did you feel

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Speaker 1: specifically when you say you felt something weird? I just

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Speaker 1: felt a cloud of something around him, A cloud of

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Speaker 1: something around I can't say honestly that I felt in

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Speaker 1: death about him, but I felt something very ominous. It

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Speaker 1: could have been death, but I didn't. But I didn't

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Speaker 1: know if I felt that or not. Well, you know,

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Speaker 1: we do have a type of ste that's called the

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Speaker 1: sympathetic ste and and it's it would the cases we

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Speaker 1: highlight and and it's clear for are this type of

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Speaker 1: a case. And I talk about this case actually in

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Speaker 1: my book. Um, Matt, So this is Sarah. Sarah wakes

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Speaker 1: up early on a Saturday morning and she starts skating,

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Speaker 1: feverish and sweating, and then she starts vomiting and she's

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Speaker 1: you know, nauseous and vomiting, and her husband and her

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Speaker 1: kids are like, oh my god, what's going on with you?

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Speaker 1: And she goes, I don't know, I've never felt this.

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Speaker 1: I just like, I don't. It just came over me

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Speaker 1: and they said, we're taking you to the ear. She goes, yeah, okay,

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Speaker 1: and she gets ready to go to er. And then

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Speaker 1: then she started seeing a little better. She goes, you know,

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Speaker 1: I don't feel as bad as I did. She stopped sweating,

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Speaker 1: you know, not vomiting anymore. But she goes still like, wow,

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Speaker 1: I feel just like I was hit by a truck.

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Speaker 1: And and then you know, she says, she gets a

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Speaker 1: little better. They don't go to the ear and she

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Speaker 1: gets a call about you know, an hour later, and

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Speaker 1: it's her her sister. She goes, I have bad news

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Speaker 1: for you. Your favorite niece just we just learned she

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Speaker 1: died of an accidental drug overdose about an hour and

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Speaker 1: a half ago. And so we call this a sympathetic

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Speaker 1: sde because it seems like Sarah. What might have been

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Speaker 1: our hypothesis is she was sharing in the transition or

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Speaker 1: the experiences just at the time of death for her

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Speaker 1: niece in this case, Leila, who was dying. And and

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Speaker 1: so we have those. We also have case we have

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Speaker 1: a number of the cases with the drug overdoses. We

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Speaker 1: have a few of those. I actually cite another one

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Speaker 1: in in my book. But and the other one we

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Speaker 1: cite uh and the research quite a bit is heart attacks.

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Speaker 1: People will feel uh chinas and their strength and their

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Speaker 1: in their chest, a shortness of breath, very similar to

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Speaker 1: a heart attack. But then someone close to them will

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Speaker 1: have it and will have died from it. That's interesting

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Speaker 1: because I think he may have died of some kind

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Speaker 1: of heart attack. They're not sure. Yeah, but I was

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Speaker 1: feeling weird that whole night. Yeah, And so you know,

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Speaker 1: the question would be, you know, you don't want to

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Speaker 1: fill in the blank here, You don't want to you know,

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Speaker 1: but you but it may have been that some of

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Speaker 1: those feelings of weirdness to association if you had I

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Speaker 1: you didn't say the dissociation, but maybe some of those, uh,

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Speaker 1: those feelings or thoughts of confusion. If indeed he was,

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Speaker 1: you know, suffering from lack of oxygen, you might have

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Speaker 1: been feeling some of the you know, the precursors of

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Speaker 1: his heart attack and eventual death. Yours is not a

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Speaker 1: full blown case, for sure, George, but you know, it's

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Speaker 1: something to consider. Listen to more Coast to Coast AM

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Speaker 1: every weeknight at one am Eastern, and go to Coast

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Speaker 1: to Coast am dot com for more