1 00:00:02,440 --> 00:00:06,120 Speaker 1: On August sixth, nineteen ninety three, shots were fired in 2 00:00:06,160 --> 00:00:10,479 Speaker 1: front of bodega in East New York, Brooklyn. One young 3 00:00:10,560 --> 00:00:14,240 Speaker 1: man named Ray Frasier survived, while his friend, Devon Brown 4 00:00:14,440 --> 00:00:20,400 Speaker 1: did not. Eventually, two alleged witnesses gave police a suspect, 5 00:00:20,680 --> 00:00:25,720 Speaker 1: someone nicknamed Guns. On August thirtieth, a car was pulled 6 00:00:25,720 --> 00:00:28,680 Speaker 1: over and two guns were found inside, along with a 7 00:00:28,720 --> 00:00:33,199 Speaker 1: man who had an outstanding arrest warrant. His name was 8 00:00:33,240 --> 00:00:38,720 Speaker 1: Frederick Willie Curse and his nickname was Guns. Even though 9 00:00:38,760 --> 00:00:40,920 Speaker 1: Frederick claimed to have been in Boston on the day 10 00:00:41,000 --> 00:00:43,680 Speaker 1: and time of the crime, he was identified by two 11 00:00:43,720 --> 00:00:46,600 Speaker 1: alleged witnesses and a gun from the car was said 12 00:00:46,600 --> 00:00:50,120 Speaker 1: to have matched ballistics from the crime scene. But this 13 00:00:50,720 --> 00:00:59,560 Speaker 1: is wrongful conviction. Wrongful conviction has always given voice to 14 00:01:00,080 --> 00:01:03,320 Speaker 1: people in prison, and now we're expanding that voice to you. 15 00:01:04,040 --> 00:01:07,280 Speaker 1: Call us at eight three, three, two oh seven four 16 00:01:07,319 --> 00:01:09,679 Speaker 1: six sixty six and tell us how these stories make 17 00:01:09,720 --> 00:01:12,160 Speaker 1: you feel and what you've done to help the cause, 18 00:01:12,480 --> 00:01:14,959 Speaker 1: even if it's something as simple as telling a friend 19 00:01:15,200 --> 00:01:18,840 Speaker 1: or sharing on social media. We've really appreciated hearing from 20 00:01:18,880 --> 00:01:21,080 Speaker 1: our audience so much so that we've included one of 21 00:01:21,080 --> 00:01:23,479 Speaker 1: the messages at the end of this episode, so stick 22 00:01:23,520 --> 00:01:25,919 Speaker 1: around for that and if you have something to say, 23 00:01:26,240 --> 00:01:29,039 Speaker 1: we definitely want to hear it, and you might just 24 00:01:29,120 --> 00:01:33,080 Speaker 1: hear yourself in a future episode. Call us A three three, 25 00:01:33,280 --> 00:01:46,040 Speaker 1: two oh seven, four six sixty six. Welcome back to 26 00:01:46,120 --> 00:01:51,440 Speaker 1: Wrongful Conviction. Today's case comes from an era when wrongful 27 00:01:51,480 --> 00:01:56,920 Speaker 1: convictions were just an everyday occurrence in the borough of Brooklyn, 28 00:01:57,360 --> 00:02:02,160 Speaker 1: East New York, specifically the Torrius seventy Precinct in New 29 00:02:02,240 --> 00:02:05,920 Speaker 1: York City. And with us to tell it is the 30 00:02:06,000 --> 00:02:11,440 Speaker 1: man himself, Frederick Willie Curse, who lived through this nightmare. Frederick, 31 00:02:11,800 --> 00:02:13,800 Speaker 1: I appreciate you being here. I know you know a 32 00:02:13,800 --> 00:02:16,520 Speaker 1: lot of guys who've been on the show already, and 33 00:02:16,840 --> 00:02:19,520 Speaker 1: we need to continue to paint this picture of what 34 00:02:19,680 --> 00:02:22,280 Speaker 1: was going on in Brooklyn in the nineties. So thanks 35 00:02:22,320 --> 00:02:23,799 Speaker 1: for being here and sharing your story. 36 00:02:23,960 --> 00:02:24,799 Speaker 2: Thank you for having me. 37 00:02:25,120 --> 00:02:28,680 Speaker 1: And with him is his civil rights attorney Mark Cannon 38 00:02:29,000 --> 00:02:32,080 Speaker 1: of Bell, doc Levigne and Hoffman. Mark. I think it's 39 00:02:32,120 --> 00:02:33,920 Speaker 1: your first time on the show, so welcome. 40 00:02:34,160 --> 00:02:34,520 Speaker 2: Thank you. 41 00:02:34,919 --> 00:02:37,320 Speaker 1: By the way, while we're on the subject of the 42 00:02:37,400 --> 00:02:40,320 Speaker 1: seventy fifth Precinct, this is not hyperbole to say they 43 00:02:40,320 --> 00:02:42,840 Speaker 1: were one of the most corrupt in history. In fact, 44 00:02:42,919 --> 00:02:45,640 Speaker 1: there's even a movie about them called The Seven Five 45 00:02:45,800 --> 00:02:49,760 Speaker 1: that was released in twenty fourteen. So I encourage people 46 00:02:49,840 --> 00:02:52,320 Speaker 1: to watch the movie to get some context on what 47 00:02:52,480 --> 00:02:56,880 Speaker 1: was going on back then and why Frederick was doomed 48 00:02:56,960 --> 00:02:57,720 Speaker 1: from the beginning. 49 00:02:57,960 --> 00:03:00,640 Speaker 3: That's exactly right. And it was all about out closing 50 00:03:00,760 --> 00:03:03,160 Speaker 3: cases back then. And you talked about the early nineties 51 00:03:03,200 --> 00:03:05,880 Speaker 3: and the crack epidemic. But you know, Michael Race, who 52 00:03:05,960 --> 00:03:08,400 Speaker 3: was a detective sergeant at the precinct around that time, 53 00:03:08,520 --> 00:03:11,440 Speaker 3: admitted that over the seven hundred and fifty murder investigations 54 00:03:11,440 --> 00:03:14,720 Speaker 3: that he supervised at the seventy fifth Precinct, only one 55 00:03:15,040 --> 00:03:15,919 Speaker 3: was done correctly. 56 00:03:16,639 --> 00:03:19,919 Speaker 1: Incredible. I mean, they were playing by their own set 57 00:03:19,960 --> 00:03:23,200 Speaker 1: of rules, to say the least, and framing somebody was 58 00:03:23,280 --> 00:03:27,079 Speaker 1: nothing to them. So, Frederick, before you got hit by 59 00:03:27,120 --> 00:03:31,799 Speaker 1: this tornado of the seventy fifth Precinct, what was your 60 00:03:31,840 --> 00:03:33,720 Speaker 1: life like? Did you grow up in Brooklyn? 61 00:03:33,880 --> 00:03:36,680 Speaker 4: Yes, I was born and raised in East New York, Brooklyn. 62 00:03:36,960 --> 00:03:40,800 Speaker 4: Several years later I moved to bethhor Stuyvesant, the Massy Houses, 63 00:03:40,920 --> 00:03:43,360 Speaker 4: and my family lived in Eastern York. So I used 64 00:03:43,400 --> 00:03:45,480 Speaker 4: to always go and chill out with them over the 65 00:03:45,520 --> 00:03:48,920 Speaker 4: summer and spend time with them over there, and I 66 00:03:49,000 --> 00:03:51,560 Speaker 4: really played a lot of basketball and just tried to 67 00:03:51,560 --> 00:03:53,760 Speaker 4: find my way through school. You know, I really didn't 68 00:03:53,920 --> 00:03:57,000 Speaker 4: grab hold of the academic process when I was young 69 00:03:57,520 --> 00:04:00,720 Speaker 4: for numerous reasons. I think one of the ones was 70 00:04:00,960 --> 00:04:04,160 Speaker 4: how terrible the public schools were and weren't able to reach. 71 00:04:04,000 --> 00:04:04,839 Speaker 2: Me where I was at. 72 00:04:05,120 --> 00:04:08,000 Speaker 4: Unfortunately, later on in life, while I was incarcerated, I 73 00:04:08,040 --> 00:04:10,720 Speaker 4: found out that, you know, the way that I was 74 00:04:10,760 --> 00:04:13,440 Speaker 4: so competitive in basketball, that I was able to apply 75 00:04:13,560 --> 00:04:16,120 Speaker 4: that with anything that I can do. So that later 76 00:04:16,200 --> 00:04:19,040 Speaker 4: propelled me to go and earn my ged and go 77 00:04:19,120 --> 00:04:22,320 Speaker 4: to Bard College and you know, graduate from there. 78 00:04:22,400 --> 00:04:24,920 Speaker 1: So it's sad to think of what could have been 79 00:04:24,960 --> 00:04:27,680 Speaker 1: had Frederick not come of age during the crack epidemic 80 00:04:27,720 --> 00:04:29,960 Speaker 1: in a historically poor area of New York where he 81 00:04:30,080 --> 00:04:33,400 Speaker 1: was hustling in the streets, leading to a few related 82 00:04:33,480 --> 00:04:36,919 Speaker 1: charges which he escaped by going on the lamb to Boston. 83 00:04:37,360 --> 00:04:40,160 Speaker 4: Yes, I had a few drug chargers and a weapon charge. 84 00:04:40,520 --> 00:04:42,400 Speaker 4: You know, this is where my level of thinking was. 85 00:04:42,440 --> 00:04:45,640 Speaker 4: I was, you know, not understanding that the same energy 86 00:04:45,680 --> 00:04:48,040 Speaker 4: I put into the streets and thinking negative, I could 87 00:04:48,040 --> 00:04:49,160 Speaker 4: have did something positive. 88 00:04:49,400 --> 00:04:51,760 Speaker 2: So that's how I was up in Massachusetts. 89 00:04:51,760 --> 00:04:55,640 Speaker 4: And unfortunately, being caught up in crime can lead to 90 00:04:56,120 --> 00:04:58,719 Speaker 4: being wrongfully convicted and accused of other things, you know, 91 00:04:58,720 --> 00:05:01,279 Speaker 4: which is something I couldn't fathom because my mind didn't 92 00:05:01,440 --> 00:05:04,160 Speaker 4: expand that far at the time, and I didn't understand 93 00:05:04,400 --> 00:05:07,800 Speaker 4: the risks once you get into any type of criminal activity. 94 00:05:07,880 --> 00:05:10,799 Speaker 4: So you know, that's how the Massachusettstate coming to play. 95 00:05:10,960 --> 00:05:13,640 Speaker 4: But it helped in the case because I had an alibi. 96 00:05:14,240 --> 00:05:17,080 Speaker 1: Frederick was in Boston on August sixth, nineteen ninety three, 97 00:05:17,080 --> 00:05:19,839 Speaker 1: when a drive by shooting occurred in East New York, Brooklyn. 98 00:05:20,360 --> 00:05:23,000 Speaker 1: Nine one one calls reported a buick century that had 99 00:05:23,000 --> 00:05:25,479 Speaker 1: been traveling north on Ashred Street and made a wide 100 00:05:25,560 --> 00:05:28,640 Speaker 1: left turn onto Dumont Avenue, pulling up to a bodega 101 00:05:28,680 --> 00:05:31,640 Speaker 1: on the northeast corner, and more than ten shots were fired, 102 00:05:31,680 --> 00:05:34,799 Speaker 1: striking two young men. Ray Frasier was hitting the legs 103 00:05:34,800 --> 00:05:37,359 Speaker 1: and survived, while Devon Brown was fatally shot in the 104 00:05:37,400 --> 00:05:41,120 Speaker 1: torso and the vehicle finished the left turn fleeing west 105 00:05:41,200 --> 00:05:45,400 Speaker 1: on Dumont. EMTs responded and took the victims to Brookdale Hospital, 106 00:05:45,640 --> 00:05:47,080 Speaker 1: where Devon was pronounced dead. 107 00:05:47,720 --> 00:05:51,240 Speaker 3: So police showed up pretty quickly and they immediately started 108 00:05:51,279 --> 00:05:55,400 Speaker 3: canvassing for witnesses. Unsurprisingly, even though this was during the 109 00:05:55,520 --> 00:05:59,160 Speaker 3: daytime in a somewhat populated neighborhood, there were no witnesses. 110 00:05:59,200 --> 00:06:01,600 Speaker 3: Nobody wanted to talk to the police, you know, because 111 00:06:01,600 --> 00:06:07,000 Speaker 3: that's generally not something people did. They send officers to 112 00:06:07,040 --> 00:06:11,320 Speaker 3: the hospital. They talked to Ray. Ray says he couldn't 113 00:06:11,360 --> 00:06:14,320 Speaker 3: see who shot at him, has no idea, doesn't know 114 00:06:14,320 --> 00:06:17,680 Speaker 3: why they wanted to shoot him. And they talked to 115 00:06:18,240 --> 00:06:22,120 Speaker 3: two women who we now know. One woman who is 116 00:06:22,160 --> 00:06:25,760 Speaker 3: Devon's girlfriend at the time, Yolanda Pandler, also known as 117 00:06:25,839 --> 00:06:29,640 Speaker 3: Barbara Garth. She told the officers that she was at 118 00:06:29,680 --> 00:06:32,200 Speaker 3: Devon's house, which was about a half blocked down from 119 00:06:32,200 --> 00:06:35,279 Speaker 3: the corner of Asher in Dumont. She heard shots fired 120 00:06:35,400 --> 00:06:37,760 Speaker 3: and you know, saw people running, and she saw the 121 00:06:37,800 --> 00:06:40,160 Speaker 3: car turn the corner, but she didn't see anything. They 122 00:06:40,200 --> 00:06:42,839 Speaker 3: talked to Ray's girlfriend, he's also at the hospital. She 123 00:06:43,279 --> 00:06:45,880 Speaker 3: pretty much sees the same thing. The car turned a corner. 124 00:06:46,000 --> 00:06:48,159 Speaker 3: It's a green car, and that's about the only information 125 00:06:48,240 --> 00:06:49,280 Speaker 3: she's able to provide. 126 00:06:49,400 --> 00:06:52,640 Speaker 1: Another witness, Greg Maloney, had a similar initial account since 127 00:06:52,640 --> 00:06:55,279 Speaker 1: he was also in front of Devon's house five point 128 00:06:55,240 --> 00:06:58,040 Speaker 1: fifty five Asherd Street, which was about a football fields 129 00:06:58,120 --> 00:07:01,279 Speaker 1: length north of the corner. Either of these witnesses could 130 00:07:01,279 --> 00:07:03,880 Speaker 1: have made a reliable ID from that distance, leaving the 131 00:07:03,880 --> 00:07:07,440 Speaker 1: police with little to go on. Meanwhile, Devon's family and 132 00:07:07,520 --> 00:07:10,040 Speaker 1: friends had their own ideas about who the shooter was. 133 00:07:10,760 --> 00:07:13,160 Speaker 3: One of the names that kept coming up was this 134 00:07:13,240 --> 00:07:18,240 Speaker 3: person known as Guns because Guns and Devon's supposedly they 135 00:07:18,240 --> 00:07:20,960 Speaker 3: had known each other and been friendly at one point, 136 00:07:21,000 --> 00:07:24,840 Speaker 3: but the relationships supposedly went sour, and that's what people suspected. 137 00:07:25,120 --> 00:07:28,000 Speaker 3: So the police pick up the rumor that people think 138 00:07:28,040 --> 00:07:31,680 Speaker 3: Guns did it, and Greg Maloney, he actually was probably 139 00:07:31,680 --> 00:07:35,200 Speaker 3: pointed out to the police by members of Devon's family 140 00:07:35,280 --> 00:07:38,000 Speaker 3: because people knew he was kind of a pushover. The 141 00:07:38,040 --> 00:07:39,600 Speaker 3: police go to him, they ask him, do you know 142 00:07:39,640 --> 00:07:41,760 Speaker 3: who Guns is? He's like, yeah, I know who Guns is. 143 00:07:41,960 --> 00:07:43,600 Speaker 3: Did you see who did shooting? 144 00:07:43,760 --> 00:07:43,840 Speaker 1: No? 145 00:07:44,120 --> 00:07:46,560 Speaker 3: In the coughs tell them, well, if you saw the shooter, 146 00:07:46,760 --> 00:07:48,920 Speaker 3: you saw Guns, because at that point they were going 147 00:07:48,960 --> 00:07:51,440 Speaker 3: to take the position that Guns was the person who 148 00:07:51,520 --> 00:07:53,640 Speaker 3: did it. Although even though they didn't have a witness, 149 00:07:54,040 --> 00:07:56,720 Speaker 3: and they give him a story about why Guns is 150 00:07:56,720 --> 00:07:59,840 Speaker 3: a bad person, and they think he's involved in other 151 00:08:00,280 --> 00:08:03,040 Speaker 3: misconduct that's going on in the neighborhood, and you know, 152 00:08:03,200 --> 00:08:04,880 Speaker 3: they want to make an example of him. They wanted 153 00:08:04,880 --> 00:08:06,680 Speaker 3: to get him up the street. They didn't have to 154 00:08:06,720 --> 00:08:10,480 Speaker 3: hold anything specific over his head. They basically threatened that 155 00:08:10,520 --> 00:08:13,200 Speaker 3: they would arrest him and he would be deported, trying 156 00:08:13,240 --> 00:08:16,760 Speaker 3: to pressure Greg into helping him. Greg eventually gives a 157 00:08:16,800 --> 00:08:19,800 Speaker 3: statement basically describes what he saw, but he places Guns 158 00:08:19,840 --> 00:08:21,600 Speaker 3: as the shooter, even though he didn't actually see that. 159 00:08:22,080 --> 00:08:25,640 Speaker 1: Unfortunately, this important context around Greg Maloney, as well as 160 00:08:25,680 --> 00:08:28,240 Speaker 1: the initial police reports from the interviews at the hospital 161 00:08:28,240 --> 00:08:32,040 Speaker 1: with Barbara Garth, were not discovered until the reinvestigation of 162 00:08:32,080 --> 00:08:36,000 Speaker 1: this case and Maloney's eventual recantation. But back in nineteen 163 00:08:36,080 --> 00:08:39,480 Speaker 1: ninety three, Greg Maloney and Barbara Garth were convinced to 164 00:08:39,520 --> 00:08:43,160 Speaker 1: give statements identifying the shooter as a guy nicknamed Guns, 165 00:08:43,520 --> 00:08:46,840 Speaker 1: which coincidentally was very similar to Frederick's nickname. 166 00:08:47,640 --> 00:08:49,880 Speaker 2: My name is Guns U n ce. 167 00:08:50,240 --> 00:08:53,120 Speaker 4: It always got misinterpreted as Guns, but you know, there 168 00:08:53,200 --> 00:08:55,760 Speaker 4: was other people in the neighborhood also known as guns, 169 00:08:55,800 --> 00:08:59,160 Speaker 4: So you know, that's what they used to call me 170 00:08:59,200 --> 00:09:01,880 Speaker 4: and I on fortunately never really corrected it as being 171 00:09:01,960 --> 00:09:03,240 Speaker 4: guns instead of guns. 172 00:09:03,240 --> 00:09:04,720 Speaker 1: So where does guns come from? 173 00:09:04,840 --> 00:09:06,120 Speaker 2: Well, you know, in the South. 174 00:09:06,240 --> 00:09:08,959 Speaker 4: My grandmother gave me that name, so I never really 175 00:09:09,040 --> 00:09:11,360 Speaker 4: asked her what it meant, you know, question, Grandma, did 176 00:09:11,360 --> 00:09:14,080 Speaker 4: you just go with the nickname and be thankful that 177 00:09:14,559 --> 00:09:17,520 Speaker 4: she holds you on a specially little nickname category. 178 00:09:18,679 --> 00:09:22,000 Speaker 1: While the police were focused on the guns rumor, Frederick 179 00:09:22,040 --> 00:09:24,719 Speaker 1: came back into town from Boston on August thirtieth to 180 00:09:24,840 --> 00:09:27,720 Speaker 1: visit with family, traveling with three others in a white 181 00:09:27,760 --> 00:09:31,120 Speaker 1: convertible with Massachusetts plates, and it appears that they were 182 00:09:31,120 --> 00:09:32,840 Speaker 1: pulled over without any cause. 183 00:09:33,280 --> 00:09:36,160 Speaker 3: What I suspect is that they profiled the card is 184 00:09:36,200 --> 00:09:39,400 Speaker 3: convertible with Massachusetts plates. Two women in the front, two 185 00:09:39,400 --> 00:09:40,120 Speaker 3: guys in the back. 186 00:09:40,440 --> 00:09:43,480 Speaker 4: Unfortunately, two people who are carrying weapons. I didn't have 187 00:09:43,559 --> 00:09:44,600 Speaker 4: no WEP anything on me. 188 00:09:44,840 --> 00:09:47,079 Speaker 3: And so the two women, one of whom was a 189 00:09:47,160 --> 00:09:49,760 Speaker 3: former parole officer who had ability to have the gun 190 00:09:49,920 --> 00:09:52,280 Speaker 3: on her, and this other woman who I don't know, 191 00:09:52,320 --> 00:09:54,360 Speaker 3: but you know, they pulled the car over. There's people 192 00:09:54,400 --> 00:09:55,240 Speaker 3: with guns on it, so. 193 00:09:56,400 --> 00:10:00,600 Speaker 1: They ran everyone's IDs, which revealed Frederick's outstanding arrest. 194 00:10:00,840 --> 00:10:04,440 Speaker 3: When he's being brought to the precinct, there's another woman there, 195 00:10:04,760 --> 00:10:10,680 Speaker 3: Darlene Cook. She recognizes Frederick and says, hey, guns. And 196 00:10:11,400 --> 00:10:15,280 Speaker 3: when she did that, obviously the detectives realized this is 197 00:10:15,280 --> 00:10:17,559 Speaker 3: the person who they'd been hearing about the name that 198 00:10:17,600 --> 00:10:18,560 Speaker 3: they'd been looking for. 199 00:10:19,080 --> 00:10:21,600 Speaker 1: And since it appears that this stop and search was 200 00:10:21,640 --> 00:10:24,600 Speaker 1: done without cause but had turned up these weapons and 201 00:10:24,679 --> 00:10:27,760 Speaker 1: arrest warrant, the police were in a little bit of 202 00:10:27,760 --> 00:10:29,040 Speaker 1: a civil rights pickle. 203 00:10:29,559 --> 00:10:31,880 Speaker 3: I think they profiled the car they stopped and then 204 00:10:31,960 --> 00:10:35,080 Speaker 3: created the justification. Afterwards, they got this person, Darlene Cook, 205 00:10:35,160 --> 00:10:38,480 Speaker 3: to say, this convertible with Massachusetts plates pointed a gun 206 00:10:38,480 --> 00:10:40,880 Speaker 3: at me and threatened me. That's what I suspect. 207 00:10:41,120 --> 00:10:44,640 Speaker 1: It's quite strange that charges related to those allegations from 208 00:10:44,720 --> 00:10:49,120 Speaker 1: Darlene Cook never materialized. However, Frederick was already facing plenty, 209 00:10:49,320 --> 00:10:52,079 Speaker 1: starting with the prior charges that he evaded by moving 210 00:10:52,080 --> 00:10:52,640 Speaker 1: to Boston. 211 00:10:53,240 --> 00:10:56,160 Speaker 4: I take full responsibility for my actions dealing with that. 212 00:10:56,520 --> 00:10:59,199 Speaker 4: I ended up getting sentenced to two one to three 213 00:10:59,280 --> 00:11:02,640 Speaker 4: years sentences running consecutively, which was two to six years 214 00:11:02,640 --> 00:11:04,560 Speaker 4: far as in this case, I had no idea that 215 00:11:04,640 --> 00:11:06,960 Speaker 4: I was even a suspect until I got to the precinct. 216 00:11:07,000 --> 00:11:08,560 Speaker 4: You know, then they put me in a lineup and 217 00:11:08,559 --> 00:11:09,320 Speaker 4: told me everything. 218 00:11:09,960 --> 00:11:13,800 Speaker 1: By this time, police had found another witness named Carmen Torado, who, 219 00:11:13,920 --> 00:11:16,880 Speaker 1: unlike Barbara Garth and Greg Maloney, had said that she 220 00:11:16,960 --> 00:11:21,160 Speaker 1: could reliably identify the shooter. Yet during this lineup, Torodo 221 00:11:21,200 --> 00:11:25,520 Speaker 1: identify someone else, while Garth and Maloney idd Frederick, who 222 00:11:25,559 --> 00:11:29,240 Speaker 1: was now facing murder and attempted murder while serving two 223 00:11:29,280 --> 00:11:30,680 Speaker 1: to six years for his priors. 224 00:11:30,960 --> 00:11:34,040 Speaker 4: So I ended up going back and forth from rackets 225 00:11:34,080 --> 00:11:37,120 Speaker 4: backup state fighting the murder charge here from ninety three 226 00:11:37,200 --> 00:11:40,400 Speaker 4: to nineteen ninety five. Like every time, if they post 227 00:11:40,400 --> 00:11:42,680 Speaker 4: formed my court date for like any more than two weeks, 228 00:11:42,760 --> 00:11:44,160 Speaker 4: they would send me back up state. 229 00:11:44,000 --> 00:11:45,920 Speaker 2: And I'll be going back and forth. You know. 230 00:11:45,960 --> 00:11:48,200 Speaker 4: I had no real communication with my attorney, you know, 231 00:11:48,280 --> 00:11:50,880 Speaker 4: he would not come visit me. I felt like I 232 00:11:50,880 --> 00:11:53,800 Speaker 4: would get off only because I know I didn't do it. 233 00:11:54,000 --> 00:11:56,120 Speaker 2: That's all that was on my mind. You know. 234 00:11:56,160 --> 00:11:59,120 Speaker 4: It was so much violence. Multiple people were getting killed 235 00:11:59,120 --> 00:12:02,200 Speaker 4: and stabbed. More because I've seen so many horrific situations 236 00:12:02,280 --> 00:12:04,800 Speaker 4: myself have to add I did get cut on Rockets 237 00:12:04,840 --> 00:12:07,199 Speaker 4: Island too. Be honest, I don't know how I got 238 00:12:07,240 --> 00:12:07,560 Speaker 4: through it. 239 00:12:21,480 --> 00:12:24,040 Speaker 1: Freedom Agenda is a proud sponsor of this episode of 240 00:12:24,080 --> 00:12:28,240 Speaker 1: Wrongful Conviction. Freedom Agenda is led by people directly impacted 241 00:12:28,280 --> 00:12:31,240 Speaker 1: by incarceration, and they're organized in to get Mayor Eric 242 00:12:31,280 --> 00:12:34,400 Speaker 1: Adams to follow the law and shut down Rikers Island. 243 00:12:34,640 --> 00:12:37,760 Speaker 1: Right now, thousands of people are awaiting trial there in 244 00:12:37,840 --> 00:12:41,960 Speaker 1: life threatening conditions. Freedom Agenda is committed to creating a 245 00:12:42,000 --> 00:12:45,280 Speaker 1: safer and more just city by winning investments in long 246 00:12:45,320 --> 00:12:48,400 Speaker 1: neglected communities, protecting the rights of people involved in the 247 00:12:48,400 --> 00:12:51,600 Speaker 1: criminal legal system, and ending the cycle of violence that 248 00:12:51,720 --> 00:12:55,040 Speaker 1: Rikers perpetuates. To learn more about the campaign to Close 249 00:12:55,080 --> 00:12:57,640 Speaker 1: Rikers and to sign up for Freedom Agenda's mailing list, 250 00:12:57,840 --> 00:13:01,600 Speaker 1: go to Campaign to Close Rikers dot org, slash, get involved, 251 00:13:01,880 --> 00:13:05,240 Speaker 1: or follow and Freedom Agenda and Why on social media. 252 00:13:10,960 --> 00:13:15,040 Speaker 1: While communication was strained with his assigned counsel, Stephen Chakin, 253 00:13:15,920 --> 00:13:18,480 Speaker 1: they were able to find one of his roommates outside 254 00:13:18,520 --> 00:13:22,360 Speaker 1: Boston to testify on his behalf at trial in nineteen 255 00:13:22,440 --> 00:13:22,960 Speaker 1: ninety five. 256 00:13:23,720 --> 00:13:26,480 Speaker 3: Here's how to alibi witness a woman he was living with. 257 00:13:26,679 --> 00:13:29,959 Speaker 3: It was actually Springfield Massachusetts at the time. She didn't 258 00:13:29,960 --> 00:13:32,640 Speaker 3: remember the exact day, but testified how they lived together 259 00:13:32,720 --> 00:13:34,920 Speaker 3: and usually had dinner together during that time. 260 00:13:35,200 --> 00:13:37,280 Speaker 4: It was a lot of things that couldn't be recalled 261 00:13:37,320 --> 00:13:39,360 Speaker 4: from her with the timings and all that, I think 262 00:13:39,400 --> 00:13:41,920 Speaker 4: got misconstrued and made it a little bit more harder 263 00:13:41,920 --> 00:13:44,080 Speaker 4: for the jury and the court to believe that I 264 00:13:44,200 --> 00:13:47,079 Speaker 4: was not actually in New York when his crime happened. 265 00:13:47,440 --> 00:13:49,880 Speaker 4: That's basically all I had was the alibi, and I 266 00:13:49,920 --> 00:13:51,800 Speaker 4: thought that's really all I needed, but. 267 00:13:51,800 --> 00:13:54,840 Speaker 3: That was not enough to counteract to other evidence against him. 268 00:13:55,400 --> 00:13:58,920 Speaker 1: The state presented Barbara Garth and Craig Maloney, whose testimonies 269 00:13:58,920 --> 00:14:01,760 Speaker 1: were stark departure from their initial statements in which they 270 00:14:01,760 --> 00:14:04,800 Speaker 1: could not make an id, but now they were both 271 00:14:04,880 --> 00:14:06,720 Speaker 1: certain that Frederick was the shooter. 272 00:14:07,400 --> 00:14:11,840 Speaker 3: Greg described this car slowly coming down Ashford and around Dumont, 273 00:14:11,880 --> 00:14:14,319 Speaker 3: where somebody came out of the car and started shooting, 274 00:14:14,320 --> 00:14:17,360 Speaker 3: whereas Barbara Garth had a much more dramatic story and 275 00:14:17,440 --> 00:14:21,000 Speaker 3: she claims she saw Kierris driving the car before the shooting, 276 00:14:21,160 --> 00:14:24,760 Speaker 3: and then she claims she was coming down Dumont, approaching 277 00:14:25,000 --> 00:14:27,200 Speaker 3: Devon and Ray as they came out of this bodega, 278 00:14:27,280 --> 00:14:29,640 Speaker 3: and she was waving to them, and all of a 279 00:14:29,640 --> 00:14:33,240 Speaker 3: sudden she sees this car with Kars in. It comes 280 00:14:33,280 --> 00:14:36,480 Speaker 3: around and actually runs sint to Ray. She says, it 281 00:14:36,680 --> 00:14:40,280 Speaker 3: knocks him onto the sidewalk, and then she says Kirs 282 00:14:40,360 --> 00:14:44,160 Speaker 3: comes out and starts shooting at Devon and Ray before 283 00:14:44,240 --> 00:14:47,360 Speaker 3: taking off. And then she claimed she runs to Devon 284 00:14:47,600 --> 00:14:49,640 Speaker 3: and you know, says I love you, and he says 285 00:14:49,680 --> 00:14:52,360 Speaker 3: I love you, and he squeezes her hand and his 286 00:14:52,440 --> 00:14:53,320 Speaker 3: eyes roll over. 287 00:14:53,840 --> 00:14:58,040 Speaker 1: Barbara Garth also testified that even though she allegedly already 288 00:14:58,120 --> 00:15:00,760 Speaker 1: knew it was Frederick, while Devon Brown was dying in 289 00:15:00,800 --> 00:15:03,440 Speaker 1: her arms, she claimed to have asked him if he 290 00:15:03,560 --> 00:15:06,320 Speaker 1: knew who had shot him, quote, to see if he 291 00:15:06,360 --> 00:15:10,240 Speaker 1: would lie end quote, which sounds just like cop logic 292 00:15:10,320 --> 00:15:14,520 Speaker 1: to establish an id untainted by suggestion, not the logic 293 00:15:14,560 --> 00:15:18,080 Speaker 1: of assumed to be grief stricken girlfriend. Either way, Barbara 294 00:15:18,160 --> 00:15:21,480 Speaker 1: Garth was completely absent from Greg Maloney's version of events, 295 00:15:21,760 --> 00:15:24,560 Speaker 1: which is a jarring inconsistency. 296 00:15:25,120 --> 00:15:28,920 Speaker 3: Even though they had these inconsistent stories, they also had 297 00:15:29,280 --> 00:15:31,760 Speaker 3: the gun that was recovered from the woman who was 298 00:15:31,840 --> 00:15:33,880 Speaker 3: driving the car that Cures got picked up in a 299 00:15:33,920 --> 00:15:37,520 Speaker 3: month later, August thirtieth. It's a ballistics expert testify that 300 00:15:37,640 --> 00:15:42,040 Speaker 3: he examined the ballistics evidence. The ammunition casings recovered from 301 00:15:42,080 --> 00:15:44,680 Speaker 3: the crime scene compared to two a bullet shot out 302 00:15:44,720 --> 00:15:46,960 Speaker 3: of the gun recovered from this woman who was driving 303 00:15:46,960 --> 00:15:49,080 Speaker 3: a car that Kirs was in on August thirtieth, and 304 00:15:49,160 --> 00:15:52,520 Speaker 3: they said it's the same gun, and Curius's defense counsel 305 00:15:52,600 --> 00:15:54,240 Speaker 3: he didn't challenge that claim. 306 00:15:54,680 --> 00:15:56,760 Speaker 1: You can listen to our coverage of ballistics evidence on 307 00:15:56,840 --> 00:16:00,040 Speaker 1: Wromful Conviction Junk Science, in which you'll find that the 308 00:16:00,280 --> 00:16:04,000 Speaker 1: ballistics analysis can really only be useful in ruling out 309 00:16:04,040 --> 00:16:08,040 Speaker 1: a weapon, but you can not identify a weapon to 310 00:16:08,120 --> 00:16:11,400 Speaker 1: the exclusion of all others. That's exactly what was done here. 311 00:16:11,760 --> 00:16:17,600 Speaker 3: The nypdalistics expert testified that scientifically it was a perfect match, 312 00:16:17,640 --> 00:16:21,160 Speaker 3: and that's impossible. My impression is that the defense council 313 00:16:21,240 --> 00:16:24,000 Speaker 3: didn't even look at the ballistics evidence. The only thing 314 00:16:24,040 --> 00:16:26,480 Speaker 3: he did to challenge it was to say, well, maybe 315 00:16:26,520 --> 00:16:29,520 Speaker 3: the bullets were there before the shooting, which of course 316 00:16:29,640 --> 00:16:30,840 Speaker 3: is not a strong defense. 317 00:16:31,280 --> 00:16:33,360 Speaker 1: And the jury goes out, how long did they. 318 00:16:33,240 --> 00:16:34,760 Speaker 2: Deliberate for wow? 319 00:16:34,960 --> 00:16:36,560 Speaker 4: I think for like a day and a half because 320 00:16:36,600 --> 00:16:38,360 Speaker 4: I had to come back, and it was a lot 321 00:16:38,400 --> 00:16:43,160 Speaker 4: of readbacks with them asking for clarification with certain contradictions 322 00:16:43,200 --> 00:16:45,440 Speaker 4: that was with the witness's statements. 323 00:16:45,600 --> 00:16:48,120 Speaker 1: And by the way, more power to them, because after 324 00:16:48,160 --> 00:16:50,240 Speaker 1: two or three weeks of a bunch of bullshit, it 325 00:16:50,240 --> 00:16:51,800 Speaker 1: wouldn't have been surprising to me if you would have 326 00:16:51,800 --> 00:16:53,680 Speaker 1: said they deliberated for an hour, came back and said 327 00:16:53,680 --> 00:16:56,360 Speaker 1: guilty and now we're going home. That's not what they did. 328 00:16:56,400 --> 00:17:00,160 Speaker 1: So they had questions, they had doubts, but ultimately they 329 00:17:00,240 --> 00:17:04,359 Speaker 1: sentenced you to twenty years to life for the murder, 330 00:17:04,720 --> 00:17:07,719 Speaker 1: eight and the third years to twenty five for attempted murder, 331 00:17:07,960 --> 00:17:10,359 Speaker 1: five to fifteen for the possession of the weapon, and 332 00:17:10,400 --> 00:17:12,920 Speaker 1: two in a third to seven for the assault. All 333 00:17:12,960 --> 00:17:15,520 Speaker 1: three served consecutively to the twenty of the life. 334 00:17:15,640 --> 00:17:17,199 Speaker 4: You know, my family was in the courtroom when they 335 00:17:17,320 --> 00:17:20,160 Speaker 4: came back with a guilty verdict, and I can still 336 00:17:20,200 --> 00:17:23,199 Speaker 4: hear my sister screaming inside the courtroom, and to me, 337 00:17:23,520 --> 00:17:26,080 Speaker 4: everything seemed like the courtroom just was drinking. 338 00:17:26,200 --> 00:17:26,359 Speaker 2: You know. 339 00:17:26,400 --> 00:17:27,880 Speaker 4: I just wanted to get out of there. It felt 340 00:17:27,880 --> 00:17:30,560 Speaker 4: like everything was collapsing on me and I couldn't really 341 00:17:30,600 --> 00:17:34,720 Speaker 4: believe it. That's just something that continuously to this day 342 00:17:34,760 --> 00:17:54,040 Speaker 4: I go through as I think about those moments at 343 00:17:54,080 --> 00:17:56,480 Speaker 4: a fourth and fifth grade reading level at the time. 344 00:17:56,600 --> 00:17:58,920 Speaker 4: So that was very hard for me, and I think 345 00:17:59,200 --> 00:18:01,600 Speaker 4: kind of maybe prolong my stay in prison because after 346 00:18:01,640 --> 00:18:05,720 Speaker 4: I did get educated, I put my bunk, so to speak, 347 00:18:05,800 --> 00:18:09,440 Speaker 4: inside the law library and started studying and writing everybody 348 00:18:09,440 --> 00:18:10,959 Speaker 4: in the country for assistance. 349 00:18:11,600 --> 00:18:15,119 Speaker 1: So you put your buff inside the law library. I 350 00:18:15,160 --> 00:18:15,960 Speaker 1: never heard that before. 351 00:18:16,240 --> 00:18:17,879 Speaker 4: That's what we used to say, like you live in 352 00:18:17,880 --> 00:18:20,240 Speaker 4: a law library when you're trying to get some type 353 00:18:20,240 --> 00:18:22,720 Speaker 4: of resolve. So I just was there every day in 354 00:18:22,720 --> 00:18:24,239 Speaker 4: so many where I was just trying to say that. 355 00:18:24,720 --> 00:18:27,479 Speaker 1: So who somebody must have helped you because you come 356 00:18:27,560 --> 00:18:29,120 Speaker 1: in there, you know you have a fourth fifth grade 357 00:18:29,160 --> 00:18:31,320 Speaker 1: reading level. Did you have a mentor in there who 358 00:18:31,440 --> 00:18:34,920 Speaker 1: was able to help you persevere and find a way 359 00:18:34,920 --> 00:18:35,600 Speaker 1: out of this mess? 360 00:18:35,680 --> 00:18:37,679 Speaker 4: Yes, I had quite a few people that and I 361 00:18:37,760 --> 00:18:39,960 Speaker 4: used to work in a messoor. So was this brother 362 00:18:40,040 --> 00:18:42,640 Speaker 4: there by the name of Alame And he was very 363 00:18:42,640 --> 00:18:44,520 Speaker 4: good at the law and he used to help me 364 00:18:44,560 --> 00:18:47,000 Speaker 4: a lot. And I think that's what he taught me most, 365 00:18:47,080 --> 00:18:49,440 Speaker 4: just to write and how to write the cause for 366 00:18:49,560 --> 00:18:52,280 Speaker 4: a request or whatever, try to get some type of 367 00:18:52,320 --> 00:18:54,840 Speaker 4: corresponse going on with the attorney, mister Chakin, that never 368 00:18:54,840 --> 00:18:57,080 Speaker 4: wrote me back in the whole twenty eight years. But 369 00:18:57,520 --> 00:18:59,280 Speaker 4: yes I had a lot of help in that regard. 370 00:18:59,359 --> 00:19:01,919 Speaker 4: But the almost hope I got was just understand that 371 00:19:01,960 --> 00:19:03,600 Speaker 4: I didn't do the crime and that I was not 372 00:19:03,680 --> 00:19:05,879 Speaker 4: going to stop until I got some type of answers. 373 00:19:06,160 --> 00:19:09,479 Speaker 4: Fortunately I ended up in a prison, Kaksaki Correction facility. 374 00:19:10,040 --> 00:19:13,560 Speaker 4: And again the name gun Sa was my gift at 375 00:19:13,560 --> 00:19:16,280 Speaker 4: this point because someone was in a few sales down 376 00:19:16,320 --> 00:19:18,800 Speaker 4: for me. They heard the name and then they were 377 00:19:18,840 --> 00:19:21,600 Speaker 4: the porter on the block and came out and started 378 00:19:21,640 --> 00:19:24,040 Speaker 4: asking me who I am, where I'm from. And long 379 00:19:24,080 --> 00:19:27,240 Speaker 4: story short, that person knew the witness that testified against me. 380 00:19:27,680 --> 00:19:30,160 Speaker 1: And this man's name is Gavin Johnson. 381 00:19:30,480 --> 00:19:32,920 Speaker 3: So Gavin Johnson lived a couple of houses down from 382 00:19:32,960 --> 00:19:36,600 Speaker 3: Devon Brown and he was actually at home on Ashfrid 383 00:19:36,640 --> 00:19:39,479 Speaker 3: Street at the time of the murders. He recalled hearing 384 00:19:39,520 --> 00:19:42,320 Speaker 3: the shooting and then running outside and running up the 385 00:19:42,320 --> 00:19:44,760 Speaker 3: street to see what happened and seeing that Devon got shot. 386 00:19:44,840 --> 00:19:49,919 Speaker 3: So when he came across Frederick in Koksaki. He was 387 00:19:50,800 --> 00:19:52,960 Speaker 3: shocked to find out that one of the witnesses he 388 00:19:53,040 --> 00:19:57,040 Speaker 3: testified against him was Greg Maloney because he knew that 389 00:19:57,080 --> 00:20:00,240 Speaker 3: Greg Maloney had never said anything about knowing who the 390 00:20:00,320 --> 00:20:01,840 Speaker 3: murderer was of Devon Brown. 391 00:20:01,960 --> 00:20:04,320 Speaker 4: And after that, you know, he just was really willing 392 00:20:04,400 --> 00:20:06,480 Speaker 4: to try to get alone to talk to my lawyer. 393 00:20:06,800 --> 00:20:09,080 Speaker 3: First, well, the witness, Greg Bloney didn't want to get 394 00:20:09,080 --> 00:20:12,040 Speaker 3: in trouble himself and say, you know, I perjured myself 395 00:20:12,080 --> 00:20:14,199 Speaker 3: at trial, and he wanted to wait for the statue 396 00:20:14,240 --> 00:20:17,160 Speaker 3: limitations to run out. When that finally happened and Frederick 397 00:20:17,160 --> 00:20:19,960 Speaker 3: finally got Craig to give him a statement in two thousand, 398 00:20:20,000 --> 00:20:22,639 Speaker 3: he immediately gets I think it was a legal aid 399 00:20:22,720 --> 00:20:24,640 Speaker 3: lawyer involved to try to help him with the four 400 00:20:24,800 --> 00:20:28,240 Speaker 3: forty And that whole process ends up taking several more 401 00:20:28,320 --> 00:20:32,120 Speaker 3: years while the lawyer's trying to develop the case and 402 00:20:32,520 --> 00:20:35,280 Speaker 3: they don't think this one recantation is enough. They think 403 00:20:35,320 --> 00:20:38,040 Speaker 3: they need the other witness to recant as well. It's 404 00:20:38,080 --> 00:20:40,960 Speaker 3: not till two thousand and seven that Frederick uses his 405 00:20:41,040 --> 00:20:43,520 Speaker 3: recantation in one of his pro say four forty is 406 00:20:43,520 --> 00:20:45,280 Speaker 3: the judge is like, well, why did you take so long, 407 00:20:45,320 --> 00:20:47,120 Speaker 3: this is incredible and just throws it out. 408 00:20:47,280 --> 00:20:48,480 Speaker 2: They rejected my motion. 409 00:20:48,720 --> 00:20:51,320 Speaker 4: From then on, I just started writing law clinics and 410 00:20:51,520 --> 00:20:55,359 Speaker 4: actual innocent projects and mister Myra Bell doc Ronald QB. 411 00:20:55,480 --> 00:20:57,440 Speaker 2: I mean, I wrote Everybody and a Mother trying to 412 00:20:57,480 --> 00:20:58,160 Speaker 2: act for some help. 413 00:20:58,200 --> 00:21:01,480 Speaker 4: Then at twenty fifteen, I was fortunate to write May 414 00:21:01,600 --> 00:21:04,720 Speaker 4: Rest a Peace mister maer Beldock, based on another case 415 00:21:04,720 --> 00:21:07,440 Speaker 4: People Versus wag Staff that he did that also involved 416 00:21:07,760 --> 00:21:10,000 Speaker 4: the seventy fifth Precinct, because I knew that he was 417 00:21:10,040 --> 00:21:13,320 Speaker 4: skilled with the seventy fifth Precinct and knew about their 418 00:21:13,400 --> 00:21:15,639 Speaker 4: tricks of making it a pay as if witnesses were 419 00:21:15,680 --> 00:21:16,960 Speaker 4: at crime scenes and were not. 420 00:21:17,359 --> 00:21:19,760 Speaker 1: And Myron Belldock was of course one of the named 421 00:21:19,800 --> 00:21:23,639 Speaker 1: partners from Marx firm Belldoc Levine and Hoffman. And you 422 00:21:23,680 --> 00:21:26,399 Speaker 1: can hear more about his work in our interview with 423 00:21:26,440 --> 00:21:29,720 Speaker 1: Evertt and Wagstaff that will be linked in the episode description. 424 00:21:30,320 --> 00:21:34,359 Speaker 3: You know, Myron Belldock actually read every letter he got 425 00:21:34,480 --> 00:21:36,960 Speaker 3: from a prisoner at the end of his life. That 426 00:21:37,040 --> 00:21:39,520 Speaker 3: was like one of his biggest concerns is that, you know, 427 00:21:39,760 --> 00:21:42,520 Speaker 3: the letters from prisoners were piling up in his mailbox, 428 00:21:42,680 --> 00:21:46,119 Speaker 3: but he read Frederick's letter, so he gave the case 429 00:21:46,160 --> 00:21:50,600 Speaker 3: to another lawyer, Keith Shapanski, who started investigating it. He 430 00:21:50,720 --> 00:21:55,200 Speaker 3: found another witness who was actually Gavin Johnson's brother, Donald, 431 00:21:55,240 --> 00:21:57,560 Speaker 3: who was a heaty corner I think to where the 432 00:21:57,600 --> 00:21:59,760 Speaker 3: badega that Devon and Ray came out of at the 433 00:21:59,800 --> 00:22:02,680 Speaker 3: time the murder took place, and so he witnessed it, 434 00:22:03,240 --> 00:22:06,480 Speaker 3: and he couldn't identify who did the murder, but he 435 00:22:06,600 --> 00:22:09,879 Speaker 3: knows that Greg was not on the opposite corner at 436 00:22:09,920 --> 00:22:12,800 Speaker 3: the time of the shooting. And he also knows that 437 00:22:13,000 --> 00:22:16,120 Speaker 3: Barbara Garth was not across the street on Dumont Avenue 438 00:22:16,440 --> 00:22:18,359 Speaker 3: approaching the corner at the time of the shooting. That 439 00:22:18,480 --> 00:22:20,359 Speaker 3: he knows those people were down the block because he 440 00:22:20,400 --> 00:22:21,560 Speaker 3: had just come from down the block. 441 00:22:21,880 --> 00:22:24,280 Speaker 1: And so this became the foundation of a new four 442 00:22:24,280 --> 00:22:28,080 Speaker 1: to forty motion, along with the false expert ballistics testimony. 443 00:22:28,359 --> 00:22:30,719 Speaker 3: By the time the case came to me, I hired 444 00:22:30,760 --> 00:22:33,600 Speaker 3: an expert to point out the problems with the ballistic 445 00:22:33,600 --> 00:22:37,440 Speaker 3: evidence he used to convict Frederick, but we needed more 446 00:22:37,640 --> 00:22:40,080 Speaker 3: to knock out the other witness, Barbara Gareth. We were 447 00:22:40,080 --> 00:22:42,320 Speaker 3: never able to find. But there are two other important 448 00:22:42,320 --> 00:22:44,800 Speaker 3: pieces of evidence that we were able to get through 449 00:22:45,320 --> 00:22:49,600 Speaker 3: FOIL requests. First, the DD fives from the hospital. Frederick 450 00:22:49,680 --> 00:22:53,280 Speaker 3: got the file from his lawyer and he only had 451 00:22:53,440 --> 00:22:55,960 Speaker 3: redacted copies that didn't identify who it was that the 452 00:22:55,960 --> 00:22:59,359 Speaker 3: police interviewed at the hospital, and I thought one of 453 00:22:59,400 --> 00:23:01,600 Speaker 3: them had to be Barbara Garth. But I was able 454 00:23:01,680 --> 00:23:04,920 Speaker 3: to finally get the file from the NYPD. They gave 455 00:23:04,920 --> 00:23:07,399 Speaker 3: me an unredacted copy that showed that Barbara Garth was 456 00:23:07,440 --> 00:23:10,000 Speaker 3: the person saying right after the shooting that she was 457 00:23:10,040 --> 00:23:12,480 Speaker 3: in front of five five five Ashford Street when the 458 00:23:12,520 --> 00:23:15,399 Speaker 3: shooting took place, not right near the corner of the shooting, 459 00:23:15,400 --> 00:23:18,520 Speaker 3: which is what she testified to. So that's the significant 460 00:23:18,600 --> 00:23:21,880 Speaker 3: Brady violation because she was giving false testimony. There's one 461 00:23:21,880 --> 00:23:25,280 Speaker 3: other important piece of information we're still actually putting the 462 00:23:25,320 --> 00:23:28,320 Speaker 3: finishing touches on, but basically there was this practice that 463 00:23:28,440 --> 00:23:32,679 Speaker 3: District Attorney's offices were engaging in. If a witness wasn't cooperating, 464 00:23:32,720 --> 00:23:35,679 Speaker 3: they would get a material witness warrant. Normally, you're supposed 465 00:23:35,720 --> 00:23:37,879 Speaker 3: to bring in the witness before a judge and so 466 00:23:37,960 --> 00:23:39,639 Speaker 3: they can tell the judge why they didn't want to 467 00:23:39,680 --> 00:23:42,840 Speaker 3: testify and either they'll hold them or they won't. But 468 00:23:42,960 --> 00:23:46,199 Speaker 3: they did get a material warrant for Barbara Garth to 469 00:23:46,240 --> 00:23:50,600 Speaker 3: testify against Frederick at trial, and they told the judge 470 00:23:50,720 --> 00:23:53,919 Speaker 3: it was a misunderstanding. She was actually happy to testify. Therefore, 471 00:23:53,960 --> 00:23:56,760 Speaker 3: you can just vacate the warrant and she testified a trial. 472 00:23:56,840 --> 00:23:59,080 Speaker 3: But we're just getting the evidence to bear this out. 473 00:23:59,240 --> 00:24:03,480 Speaker 3: We believe that they held her at a hotel under 474 00:24:03,480 --> 00:24:06,439 Speaker 3: lock and key until she provided the testimony that they wanted, 475 00:24:06,440 --> 00:24:09,920 Speaker 3: and then she was released. So that piece of information, 476 00:24:10,080 --> 00:24:13,320 Speaker 3: combined with the D five showing she testified falsely about 477 00:24:13,359 --> 00:24:16,440 Speaker 3: where she was, knocks out her as a witness. Then 478 00:24:16,480 --> 00:24:21,040 Speaker 3: it resuscitates the reliability of Greg maloney recantation, which is 479 00:24:21,080 --> 00:24:25,560 Speaker 3: also resuscitated by Don Johnson's testimony. And then we have 480 00:24:25,720 --> 00:24:28,720 Speaker 3: the expert who will testify about babailistics. Evidence that gives 481 00:24:28,840 --> 00:24:31,359 Speaker 3: us I think a very strong case to bring to 482 00:24:31,400 --> 00:24:32,760 Speaker 3: the Conviction Integrity Unit. 483 00:24:33,160 --> 00:24:36,959 Speaker 1: So despite debunking the state's case both allegedi witnesses and 484 00:24:37,040 --> 00:24:42,080 Speaker 1: the junk science, Frederick has not been exonerated. Rather, after 485 00:24:42,160 --> 00:24:45,560 Speaker 1: serving twenty eight years and four months, he went in 486 00:24:45,560 --> 00:24:48,080 Speaker 1: front of the Parole Board for the very first time. 487 00:24:48,600 --> 00:24:49,960 Speaker 1: In early twenty twenty. 488 00:24:49,800 --> 00:24:53,440 Speaker 4: One, I was denied actually as a result of the 489 00:24:53,480 --> 00:24:56,560 Speaker 4: opposition letter that was written years ago by formal District 490 00:24:56,520 --> 00:25:00,320 Speaker 4: Attorney Charles Hines. He had impermitted that policy where they 491 00:25:00,359 --> 00:25:03,160 Speaker 4: would write an opposition letter when you get convicted and sentenced, 492 00:25:03,359 --> 00:25:05,800 Speaker 4: and thirty years later they still can use that opposition 493 00:25:06,080 --> 00:25:08,639 Speaker 4: letter against you. However, again me reading and studying the 494 00:25:08,720 --> 00:25:10,840 Speaker 4: law and trying to make a case for myself, I 495 00:25:11,080 --> 00:25:15,399 Speaker 4: learned that current District Attorney Eric Gonzalez put together a 496 00:25:15,440 --> 00:25:18,640 Speaker 4: memo that states that he's no longer using those opposition 497 00:25:18,760 --> 00:25:20,160 Speaker 4: letters that were written decades ago. 498 00:25:20,480 --> 00:25:23,479 Speaker 3: I have to give credit to this organization called the 499 00:25:23,520 --> 00:25:27,399 Speaker 3: Parole Prep Projects who helped Frederick quit his prole application. 500 00:25:27,640 --> 00:25:30,720 Speaker 3: And then they went to the King's County District Attorney's office, 501 00:25:31,000 --> 00:25:35,040 Speaker 3: explains Frederick's situation, how he got convicted at the young 502 00:25:35,080 --> 00:25:38,560 Speaker 3: age drug crime, et cetera. And they got the district 503 00:25:38,560 --> 00:25:41,679 Speaker 3: attorney to write a letter on Frederick's behalf saying that 504 00:25:41,760 --> 00:25:45,280 Speaker 3: they would not oppose him being released on parole because 505 00:25:45,760 --> 00:25:48,399 Speaker 3: he'd been in jail so long from a young age 506 00:25:48,600 --> 00:25:50,359 Speaker 3: for a drug crime. And I think that was like 507 00:25:50,400 --> 00:25:52,120 Speaker 3: a major piece of why he was able to get 508 00:25:52,119 --> 00:25:54,639 Speaker 3: parole without admitting wrongdoing. 509 00:25:55,040 --> 00:25:58,440 Speaker 4: Six months later, I got released into SEMBEL twenty twenty one. Honestly, 510 00:25:58,960 --> 00:26:02,040 Speaker 4: it was great, you know, because I had a family 511 00:26:02,080 --> 00:26:04,639 Speaker 4: to come home to. Thankfully, my mom is still alive. 512 00:26:04,720 --> 00:26:06,680 Speaker 4: She's eighty one. You know, I'm with her now in 513 00:26:06,760 --> 00:26:08,639 Speaker 4: a home. You know, I missed all those years of 514 00:26:08,680 --> 00:26:11,639 Speaker 4: my daughter life. She's thirty three now. So the freedom, 515 00:26:11,720 --> 00:26:13,240 Speaker 4: of course is great. You know, I have the chance 516 00:26:13,240 --> 00:26:16,639 Speaker 4: to do for myself and be responsible and show my 517 00:26:16,840 --> 00:26:20,000 Speaker 4: parents and my family that I'm not this convicted killer 518 00:26:20,040 --> 00:26:23,080 Speaker 4: that you know I was portrayed to be. And you know, 519 00:26:23,160 --> 00:26:26,159 Speaker 4: the whole parole process is very difficult because they come 520 00:26:26,200 --> 00:26:28,119 Speaker 4: up to your house six o'clock in the morning, you know, 521 00:26:28,240 --> 00:26:31,000 Speaker 4: guns out, and whole neighborhood know you on parole, and 522 00:26:31,040 --> 00:26:33,960 Speaker 4: then I have to report there, which is similar to 523 00:26:34,040 --> 00:26:36,520 Speaker 4: going back in prison. You know, the whole process just 524 00:26:36,880 --> 00:26:40,000 Speaker 4: keeps reoccurring and you got to experience it all over again. 525 00:26:40,359 --> 00:26:42,040 Speaker 4: And of course, when I first got home, I got 526 00:26:42,080 --> 00:26:44,760 Speaker 4: denied the partner of education job as a result of 527 00:26:44,800 --> 00:26:47,640 Speaker 4: my criminal record, despite you know, I had a degree. 528 00:26:47,720 --> 00:26:50,200 Speaker 4: So you know, it's been very hard. But again Parole 529 00:26:50,200 --> 00:26:53,399 Speaker 4: Preparation Project has supported me. Currently, I'm an employee at 530 00:26:53,400 --> 00:26:55,359 Speaker 4: the pro Reparation Project. You know, I'm a co founder 531 00:26:55,359 --> 00:26:58,119 Speaker 4: of my archive based Creative Art program with them, so 532 00:26:58,240 --> 00:27:01,200 Speaker 4: you know, they've been very instrumental and helping me prepare 533 00:27:01,280 --> 00:27:04,400 Speaker 4: for the parole board in addition to transition it out here, 534 00:27:04,760 --> 00:27:07,639 Speaker 4: you know, to take care of myself. So it's been hard, 535 00:27:07,800 --> 00:27:10,080 Speaker 4: but I am very fortunate. When you look at so 536 00:27:10,160 --> 00:27:12,199 Speaker 4: many others that don't have the opportunities that I have. 537 00:27:12,840 --> 00:27:14,919 Speaker 4: It's very difficult, and I just hope that I have 538 00:27:15,000 --> 00:27:17,560 Speaker 4: a day where I could get some justice due to 539 00:27:17,560 --> 00:27:19,119 Speaker 4: all this work I put in and all the people 540 00:27:19,119 --> 00:27:21,840 Speaker 4: that supported me, you know, just prove my innocence. I 541 00:27:21,960 --> 00:27:24,879 Speaker 4: just really pray that it's something some resolve that I 542 00:27:24,880 --> 00:27:25,800 Speaker 4: can get with. 543 00:27:25,880 --> 00:27:28,800 Speaker 1: How thoroughly this case has been dismantled, the Brooklyn DA's 544 00:27:28,800 --> 00:27:31,280 Speaker 1: office will surely find it difficult to say that this 545 00:27:31,400 --> 00:27:35,040 Speaker 1: conviction has any integrity. But in the meantime, we're going 546 00:27:35,080 --> 00:27:37,520 Speaker 1: to link to your work with the Archive Based Creative 547 00:27:37,600 --> 00:27:40,119 Speaker 1: Arts Project as well as the Parole prep Project, and 548 00:27:40,160 --> 00:27:42,760 Speaker 1: perhaps our audience will be moved to get involved. And 549 00:27:43,280 --> 00:27:45,879 Speaker 1: with that we're going to go to closing arguments. Mark 550 00:27:46,160 --> 00:27:49,120 Speaker 1: and Frederick, thank you so much for being here. And 551 00:27:49,720 --> 00:27:53,080 Speaker 1: I'm now going to turn my microphone off and kick 552 00:27:53,160 --> 00:27:57,200 Speaker 1: back in my chair and just listen to anything else 553 00:27:57,520 --> 00:28:00,440 Speaker 1: you want to share. So Mark, you start it off, 554 00:28:00,440 --> 00:28:02,639 Speaker 1: and then just hand the mic off to Frederick and 555 00:28:02,880 --> 00:28:04,840 Speaker 1: he'll take us off into the sunset. 556 00:28:05,119 --> 00:28:07,920 Speaker 3: The thing that's so striking about this case is that 557 00:28:08,160 --> 00:28:11,280 Speaker 3: Willy should never have been convicted, and a large part 558 00:28:11,440 --> 00:28:14,399 Speaker 3: of why he did get wrongfully convicted in state in 559 00:28:14,440 --> 00:28:18,120 Speaker 3: jail for the twenty eight years is because he never 560 00:28:18,200 --> 00:28:21,919 Speaker 3: got the representation he should have, and it just seemed 561 00:28:21,960 --> 00:28:25,080 Speaker 3: like one disservice after another, until finally, when he came 562 00:28:25,160 --> 00:28:27,960 Speaker 3: up for parole, he had these law school volunteers take 563 00:28:28,040 --> 00:28:32,320 Speaker 3: up his cause and actually zealously work to help get 564 00:28:32,400 --> 00:28:34,879 Speaker 3: him released on parole. And I think that was the 565 00:28:34,880 --> 00:28:37,399 Speaker 3: first time I write the system started working for him, 566 00:28:37,440 --> 00:28:39,880 Speaker 3: and I will hopefully get the system to do the 567 00:28:39,960 --> 00:28:43,560 Speaker 3: right thing and vacate his conviction. And I'm also I 568 00:28:43,600 --> 00:28:45,600 Speaker 3: guess want to say how impressed I am with Frederick 569 00:28:46,080 --> 00:28:49,520 Speaker 3: and with the great attitude he maintains despite what he's 570 00:28:49,640 --> 00:28:51,520 Speaker 3: been through. You know, whenever I called him when he 571 00:28:51,560 --> 00:28:54,160 Speaker 3: was on the inside. I was just always just really 572 00:28:54,480 --> 00:28:56,800 Speaker 3: taken with that the system hadn't broken him, and that 573 00:28:56,880 --> 00:28:59,720 Speaker 3: he had such a hope and a reverence for life, 574 00:28:59,760 --> 00:29:02,920 Speaker 3: and that he faces great adversity and comes out like 575 00:29:02,960 --> 00:29:06,040 Speaker 3: an even stronger, better person and is helping others. So 576 00:29:06,280 --> 00:29:08,280 Speaker 3: that's really a testament to Frederick's character. 577 00:29:08,960 --> 00:29:10,880 Speaker 2: Thank you, Mark. You know, I understand my history. 578 00:29:10,920 --> 00:29:13,800 Speaker 4: I understand what black people have went through in this country, 579 00:29:14,200 --> 00:29:16,520 Speaker 4: So you know, I understand it's not really personal. You know, 580 00:29:16,560 --> 00:29:19,760 Speaker 4: it's a stemic and the only way to address it 581 00:29:19,800 --> 00:29:23,120 Speaker 4: is having opportunities like you're giving me now, you know, 582 00:29:23,280 --> 00:29:26,440 Speaker 4: start making this information known and telling our stories. Right, 583 00:29:26,520 --> 00:29:28,320 Speaker 4: A lot happened to me in that place. You know 584 00:29:28,440 --> 00:29:31,080 Speaker 4: that I probably am still trying to understand, you know, 585 00:29:31,200 --> 00:29:34,440 Speaker 4: far as trauma wise. I can stay here all day 586 00:29:34,480 --> 00:29:38,080 Speaker 4: and you know, express the pains that happened to me, 587 00:29:38,480 --> 00:29:40,480 Speaker 4: but that isn't going to get me nowhere. I have 588 00:29:40,560 --> 00:29:44,720 Speaker 4: to stay level minded, focus and realize that it's a bigger. 589 00:29:44,600 --> 00:29:47,040 Speaker 2: Issue going on with the whole system, and it's not 590 00:29:47,240 --> 00:29:47,520 Speaker 2: just me. 591 00:29:47,920 --> 00:29:50,720 Speaker 4: I've stood on the premise of I did not do 592 00:29:50,840 --> 00:29:54,480 Speaker 4: this crime, and so many people I was with went 593 00:29:54,520 --> 00:29:56,680 Speaker 4: through the same thing. I understand it, you know, I 594 00:29:56,760 --> 00:30:00,000 Speaker 4: understand it from a different lens, from a historical perspective 595 00:30:00,200 --> 00:30:03,160 Speaker 4: and from a systemic perspective. To this day, it's truly 596 00:30:03,320 --> 00:30:07,320 Speaker 4: sad for the racial disparity to be so bad with 597 00:30:07,480 --> 00:30:09,880 Speaker 4: people of color and being wrong for your victim. And 598 00:30:09,920 --> 00:30:13,200 Speaker 4: I don't like to just look at it like everything 599 00:30:13,280 --> 00:30:16,040 Speaker 4: is bad. This is why I maintained my hope. This 600 00:30:16,080 --> 00:30:18,240 Speaker 4: is why I refuse to let a few people that 601 00:30:18,560 --> 00:30:21,400 Speaker 4: was in the system that did me wrong just dominate 602 00:30:21,480 --> 00:30:23,160 Speaker 4: the whole system and look at it like, you know, 603 00:30:23,240 --> 00:30:26,040 Speaker 4: everything and everyone is bad. I have to keep a 604 00:30:26,120 --> 00:30:29,400 Speaker 4: level of mind to expose this system as much as 605 00:30:29,480 --> 00:30:32,200 Speaker 4: I can. Here's what needs to be done, and use 606 00:30:32,240 --> 00:30:35,160 Speaker 4: the things that exactly happen to me inside the trial 607 00:30:35,240 --> 00:30:37,920 Speaker 4: and the system that are still going on in the 608 00:30:38,000 --> 00:30:40,560 Speaker 4: system today that I would like to set a precedent with. 609 00:30:40,960 --> 00:30:43,920 Speaker 2: So again, thank you so much for this opportunity. 610 00:30:44,360 --> 00:30:46,960 Speaker 4: I look forward to doing whatever I can to continue 611 00:30:47,000 --> 00:30:54,240 Speaker 4: to expose this system. 612 00:30:54,280 --> 00:30:56,760 Speaker 1: Thank you for listening to Wrong for Conviction. You can 613 00:30:56,800 --> 00:30:59,280 Speaker 1: listen to this and all the Lava for Good podcasts 614 00:30:59,280 --> 00:31:02,200 Speaker 1: one week early by subscribing to Lava for Good Plus 615 00:31:02,400 --> 00:31:05,280 Speaker 1: on Apple podcasts. I want to thank our production team 616 00:31:05,400 --> 00:31:08,280 Speaker 1: Connor Hall and Kathleen Fink, as well as my fellow 617 00:31:08,320 --> 00:31:12,120 Speaker 1: executive producers Jeff Kempler, Kevin Wartis, and Jeff Cliburn. The 618 00:31:12,200 --> 00:31:14,560 Speaker 1: music in this production was supplied by three time OSCAR 619 00:31:14,600 --> 00:31:17,920 Speaker 1: nominated composer Jay Ralph. Be sure to follow us across 620 00:31:17,960 --> 00:31:20,880 Speaker 1: all social media platforms at Lava for Good and at 621 00:31:20,920 --> 00:31:24,080 Speaker 1: Wrongful Conviction. You can also follow me on Instagram at 622 00:31:24,160 --> 00:31:27,360 Speaker 1: It's Jason Flamm. Wrongful Conviction is a production of Lava 623 00:31:27,400 --> 00:31:35,080 Speaker 1: for Good Podcasts and association with Signal Company Number One. 624 00:31:35,160 --> 00:31:38,600 Speaker 1: We've been hearing some incredible feedback from our listeners and 625 00:31:38,640 --> 00:31:41,560 Speaker 1: today I want to share one of the testimonials that 626 00:31:41,600 --> 00:31:45,760 Speaker 1: we got on our hotline, so to speak, and please 627 00:31:45,840 --> 00:31:47,760 Speaker 1: call us. We'd love to hear from you as well. 628 00:31:47,880 --> 00:31:50,960 Speaker 1: A three three two zero seven for six sixty six. 629 00:31:51,280 --> 00:31:53,680 Speaker 1: It means so much to me. Check it out for yourself. 630 00:31:54,160 --> 00:31:57,280 Speaker 5: Hi, my name is Jessica Delaberto. Listening to your Wrongful 631 00:31:57,280 --> 00:32:01,040 Speaker 5: Conviction really made a big impact on my life because 632 00:32:01,320 --> 00:32:03,960 Speaker 5: I have been a really big true crime addict to 633 00:32:04,200 --> 00:32:07,440 Speaker 5: like most people, for a long time, but Wrongful Conviction 634 00:32:07,600 --> 00:32:12,600 Speaker 5: really opened my eyes to the great injustices that happened 635 00:32:12,720 --> 00:32:17,000 Speaker 5: within our criminal justice system. Two years ago, I started 636 00:32:17,160 --> 00:32:21,360 Speaker 5: grad school to get my master's in criminology, and I 637 00:32:21,440 --> 00:32:25,959 Speaker 5: completed my capstone on the influences of junk science and 638 00:32:26,000 --> 00:32:30,320 Speaker 5: false expert Testimony on Wrongful Convictions, which was hugely inspired 639 00:32:30,360 --> 00:32:33,200 Speaker 5: by this podcast. I really hope to be able to 640 00:32:33,280 --> 00:32:36,400 Speaker 5: use my degree to be able to work on wrongful 641 00:32:36,400 --> 00:32:39,520 Speaker 5: convictions in the future and make an impact. Thank you 642 00:32:39,600 --> 00:32:41,520 Speaker 5: so much for everything that you guys do.