Speaker 1: Hogs summer Hocus Hocus have a kick ass summer. Duh.
Speaker 1: Because I'm a bad girl, because we're the bad kids,
Speaker 1: and she's sheen Ami no mate, no my name yo? No?
Speaker 1: What is your child trauma? I am a Your life's
Speaker 1: going down before round.
Speaker 2: Welcome to Like a Virgin, the show where we give
Speaker 2: yesterday's pop culture today's takes. I'm Rose DomU and I'm
Speaker 2: Fran Toronto.
Speaker 1: And.
Speaker 2: Today the evil will be defeated and Pride Month will
Speaker 2: be over.
Speaker 1: That's not technically true, Rose, I mean.
Speaker 2: Today is in the day that this episode comes out, Oh,
Speaker 2: the last the last day of June.
Speaker 1: You know, it's still not true. Rose. Pride is all
Speaker 1: year round. The thing about pride be for yourself, babes.
Speaker 1: Pride wasn't even Pride wasn't even in June for me.
Speaker 1: This year, pride is a state of minds. And pride
Speaker 1: happens in the UK in July, it happens in it
Speaker 1: you know, in Atlanta in October. Don't happens in New
Speaker 1: Orleans in September. Pride happens everywhere all the time because
Speaker 1: we are prideful all year round. And this year, in
Speaker 1: partnership with JP Morgan. And on that note, a word
Speaker 1: from our sponsor, Zappo's Shoes is the Beast.
Speaker 2: You shouldn't because because we probably do have an ad
Speaker 2: that's like that we just don't that we just don't
Speaker 2: know about.
Speaker 1: Okay, wait, dream Dream Pride sponsorship. Okay, they're buying out that.
Speaker 1: It's not just a spot, they're buying out like an advertorial. Okay,
Speaker 1: who is the brand we want? The Church of Scientology.
Speaker 1: You are only saying that because you want to suck
Speaker 1: Tom Cruise. Well, yeah, duh. My dream partnership would probably
Speaker 1: be like, what's something that I legitimately need, like emodium?
Speaker 1: Oh don't know, you know what I would love because
Speaker 1: I'm thinking about Gaga right now, if I might as
Speaker 1: well go big Pharma. I want my Pride partnership for
Speaker 1: this podcast to be Titlenal extra strength rapid release gels. Okay,
Speaker 1: this is not every painkiller. This is not every woman. Okay,
Speaker 1: not ibuprofen. She is an amazing pain reliever that does
Speaker 1: not in your blood. It acts immediately, and it's very potent,
Speaker 1: and it's like unlike other painkillers. This I'm literally doing
Speaker 1: an advertiying. Okay, let's let's move it a lot. Let's
Speaker 1: move it a pride. I was your pride friend. My
Speaker 1: pride was filled with the tite little extra strength rapid
Speaker 1: release jels because I was hungover, stopped doing spot No seriously,
Speaker 1: I was so drunk and did a lot of drugs
Speaker 1: and smoked a lot of weed. And that is pride
Speaker 1: to me. As you know, I did pretty much the
Speaker 1: opposite of you, which is go to club, another club,
Speaker 1: another club, bus train, no sleep, no sleep. I have
Speaker 1: been going to parties all month, not a ton of
Speaker 1: sponsored parties, which I love, like not even like only
Speaker 1: like one fashion party, like only really going to like
Speaker 1: people's convene gatherings, drag events, things that are like self
Speaker 1: produced or like community produced. I think is like where
Speaker 1: we should be putting our energy and dollars. Yes, but
Speaker 1: I also went to body Hack, an amazing trans party
Speaker 1: that my friend reoed with her organizing collective, and then
Speaker 1: Poppy Juice after that, and then the next day I
Speaker 1: went to Dike March, and then I went to Gush,
Speaker 1: which my friend Angie helps put on. And it's been
Speaker 1: a queer ass weekend. And then yesterday I went to
Speaker 1: your least favorite place on the planet and my favorite
Speaker 1: place on the planet Jacob eas Beach. I will never
Speaker 1: go there again. I love that beach. Anyways, what did
Speaker 1: you do this weekend? Rose? So?
Speaker 2: I well, Thursday, I kicked off Pride by doing a
Speaker 2: corporate panel with friend of the podcast Charlene.
Speaker 1: That actually went well. It was very chill.
Speaker 2: And then Friday, my friend and I went out of
Speaker 2: town for the weekend to Wyndham, New York, which is
Speaker 2: in the Catskills.
Speaker 1: Windham that sounds very Bridgerton. It's a very.
Speaker 2: It was a very like picturesque little town. And then
Speaker 2: we were in a cabin that was like faux remote,
Speaker 2: you know, like it was pretty close to everything, but
Speaker 2: it looked like very scenic around it. The house was,
Speaker 2: you know, it had kind of all of the typical
Speaker 2: airbnb problems. The beds were not very comfortable. It was
Speaker 2: super hot in it when we got in there, and
Speaker 2: I had to put the ac in myself.
Speaker 1: Which was not great. We are going to be talking
Speaker 1: about and just like that on the Patreon. I was
Speaker 1: just about to start talking about it now, and then
Speaker 1: I caught myself and I said, wait a second, the
Speaker 1: conversation is Paywald.
Speaker 2: Yes, we have a lot to say though, I do
Speaker 2: have a lot to say about and just like that,
Speaker 2: and we're not even we're not even going to give
Speaker 2: you top level thoughts. If you want a glimpse of taste,
Speaker 2: a taste of the end, just like that combo, you
Speaker 2: can hear it. But if you want our full thoughts,
Speaker 2: and I think this will probably be how we get
Speaker 2: through the season of end just like that, because the
Speaker 2: episodes come out Thursday, so just like timing wise, it
Speaker 2: doesn't really make sense for us to talk about the
Speaker 2: previous week's episode.
Speaker 1: So I believe that.
Speaker 2: And just like that, discussions will live on the Patreon,
Speaker 2: So go to patreon dot com, slash like a virgin
Speaker 2: and become a patron if you want to hear our
Speaker 2: thoughts about it.
Speaker 1: Gorge h literally so much. Okay, no other TV this weekend, right,
Speaker 1: I mean you were just reading on your little your
Speaker 1: little pride escape and your little pride escape hat.
Speaker 2: No, we actually did watch a couple episodes of Glamorous
Speaker 2: on Netflix and it seems fun.
Speaker 1: It's fun. Is it about like a editor and she
Speaker 1: like a mean editor lady and like a lowly assistant.
Speaker 1: That that is the problem with it.
Speaker 2: No, the problem is that Kim Katrall is basically playing
Speaker 2: Miranda Priestley in the Devorce praduc if she was nice?
Speaker 1: What? And that's boring? Why is she nice?
Speaker 2: I don't know. I wish I knew she is nice.
Speaker 2: She's a nice boss was a nice What is the conflict?
Speaker 2: The conflict seems to be that the main character is
Speaker 2: and he's not he in the show is not even
Speaker 2: non binary. What they're actually I'm about four episodes in
Speaker 2: there has been zero discussion of gender. No one's at
Speaker 2: any point like asked his pronouns, and like they're basically
Speaker 2: no person that's I guess that's fine, And like at
Speaker 2: one point they do make reference to being a femme
Speaker 2: gay guy. But for a show that's like the headline
Speaker 2: is about a boy who wears makeup, it is seems
Speaker 2: to be remarkably uninterested in the you know, gender and
Speaker 2: identity implications of that.
Speaker 1: Which is can I guess a choice? I I really
Speaker 1: shouldn't say any because I have not watched a single
Speaker 1: second of the show, not even the trailer, so I
Speaker 1: don't even know what it's about totally. But from what
Speaker 1: you're describing, I will say it is awesome to have
Speaker 1: any sort of circumstance where you know a transactor is
Speaker 1: playing a cisgender role. I actually don't even know if
Speaker 1: miss Benny identifies as trans, but like she's definitely giving
Speaker 1: on binary and I think that's dope. I am shocked
Speaker 1: though that Netflix would not have would not lean into
Speaker 1: that conversation, you know, in the kind of writing way.
Speaker 1: But maybe that's a great thing. And I don't know
Speaker 1: how that what this show feels like. But like if
Speaker 1: someone's like visibly gender non conforming, I don't really need
Speaker 1: to have a convert I don't need like there to
Speaker 1: be a scene that's like a conversation about it. But
Speaker 1: in a real life it would come up naturally in
Speaker 1: a little in between moments. There are ways to crack
Speaker 1: jokes about it and reference it. Honestly, sort of this
Speaker 1: does this really well, sort of an HBO the kind
Speaker 1: of trans South Asian Daria that I was telling you about.
Speaker 1: The jokes are very like off the cuff gender jokes
Speaker 1: that like fit in between the actual plot and meat
Speaker 1: of the show. Anyways, Yeah, I mean I will watch it.
Speaker 1: I'm gonna it is a fun like head empty trash
Speaker 1: TV watch, and that is what I will say about it. Oh, well,
Speaker 1: is that I do? I do? I hear? Do I
Speaker 1: hear an episode coming up? What is that? I what
Speaker 1: are you holding? I'm holding a large shell to my ear. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and I think I'm getting that. We are talking about
Speaker 1: summer camp today.
Speaker 2: Yes, we are talking about camp, not the not the
Speaker 2: met Gala theme, but place, the actual place that you go. Yes, Ryan,
Speaker 2: did you spend a lot of time.
Speaker 1: At camp? Is that what you did in the summers
Speaker 1: when you were coming out Jesus Camp seven summers in
Speaker 1: a row. Baby, Oh my god, I didn't even think
Speaker 1: about that, the fact that you would have gone. I
Speaker 1: went to Jesus when we talked about the Jesus version
Speaker 1: of it. Yes, yes, yes, I loved. Okay, So what's
Speaker 1: your earliest memory of Jesus Camp. Well, okay, we had
Speaker 1: before Jesus Camp, like sleep away camp, like proper sleep
Speaker 1: away camp. We did have like a vacation Bible School,
Speaker 1: which is kind of like a day camp for todd
Speaker 1: for like, you know, babies, to like go and do
Speaker 1: activities and play play with like the other church kids
Speaker 1: and stuff like that. That I guess I kind of
Speaker 1: enjoyed because it was something to do during the day,
Speaker 1: and I liked my church friends, I think, but Jesus Camp,
Speaker 1: like where you go and you sleep there for like
Speaker 1: one or two or three weeks at a time, was
Speaker 1: very cult like. And obviously that you don't say, I mean,
Speaker 1: obviously it's because of Jesus, but also like, since we're
Speaker 1: talking about it broadly, like summer camp does like kind
Speaker 1: of function like a cult sometimes, Like you do kind
Speaker 1: of enter this summer camp brain space that is different
Speaker 1: from when you go back home, like it feels for
Speaker 1: a different life for sure.
Speaker 2: Well, you have your camp friends, you can sort of
Speaker 2: reinvent yourself at camp. But then but then once you're
Speaker 2: locked into a camp, then you are that person for
Speaker 2: the duration.
Speaker 1: Of your camp. Well, okay, what was your first summer camp?
Speaker 1: Did you have to did you ever reinvent yourself?
Speaker 2: So so, I you know, am part of a long
Speaker 2: lineage of Jews who believe in packing their children off
Speaker 2: to be taken care of by nineteen year olds from
Speaker 2: Australia and New Zealand basically as soon as they're old
Speaker 2: enough so that they can you know, like go on
Speaker 2: summer vacations to Europe or like do whatever. So you know,
Speaker 2: my mom and her brothers were sent off to a
Speaker 2: sleep Boy camp as soon as they were old enough,
Speaker 2: and I the same was done for my brother and I.
Speaker 2: You know, you got to get the kids out of
Speaker 2: the house during the summer and pay someone to take.
Speaker 1: And wait, sorry, how long were you away? So okay.
Speaker 2: I didn't start going to sleep Boy camp until I
Speaker 2: was eleven, maybe ten or eleven.
Speaker 1: You know.
Speaker 2: Up until then, I would go to day camp I
Speaker 2: went to. It was always sort of temple adjacent to
Speaker 2: like a camp that was run out of the synagogue
Speaker 2: that we went to, and then I went to a
Speaker 2: theater camp that was also still a day camp. Then
Speaker 2: there was one summer where we went to a camp
Speaker 2: where you slept there during the week but you went
Speaker 2: home on the weekends. And it was in the city
Speaker 2: that I lived in, So that was sort of like
Speaker 2: training wheels for Sleepway Camp. And then I went to
Speaker 2: Sleepway Camp for the first time. I believe the summer
Speaker 2: I was ten or eleven and my younger brother was
Speaker 2: two years younger than me. We both went and that
Speaker 2: was like also kind of training wheels for Sleepway Camp
Speaker 2: because I think it was only a week or two long.
Speaker 2: I don't remember much about that camp experience, except that
Speaker 2: on the way back, I was flying back, because you know,
Speaker 2: these camps are always somewhere in the Northeast. I think
Speaker 2: this one was in Main And on the flight back,
Speaker 2: for some reason, I got bumped up to first class,
Speaker 2: so I was like ten or you're my oh god,
Speaker 2: flying flying alone.
Speaker 1: In first oil rotten in real time, getting spoiled rotten.
Speaker 1: But I got sick from the food or something.
Speaker 2: And this is a very this is a very vivid,
Speaker 2: like core foundational building blocking memory for me.
Speaker 1: So I got sick from the plane. I do remember
Speaker 1: this like this.
Speaker 2: The flight attendants were all very into me because it
Speaker 2: was like such a novelty, this like kid alone in
Speaker 2: first class. I'm sure I was like super faggy. And
Speaker 2: then when I got home, it was the summer that
Speaker 2: Harry Potter and The Chamber of Secrets came out, and
Speaker 2: I had begged my parents to get it for me,
Speaker 2: And when I got home, the book was waiting for
Speaker 2: me on my bed, and all I wanted to do
Speaker 2: was stay up all night and read it. But I
Speaker 2: was deliriously ill from whatever had consumed on the plane,
Speaker 2: so I slept for a full twenty four hours when
Speaker 2: I got home and I came downstairs, you know, to
Speaker 2: like for breakfast or whatever. When I finally was sick,
Speaker 2: and my family was like, I can't believe what you
Speaker 2: did last night. And I was like, what are you
Speaker 2: talking about? They were like, you came downstairs. And so
Speaker 2: this was the nineties, and you know, nineties were a
Speaker 2: very water cooler culture, and we had a water cooler
Speaker 2: in the kitchen.
Speaker 1: You know that you with like this big water cooler
Speaker 1: water for a water cooler culture in your own home
Speaker 1: kitchen got over, yes, And they said that during the night,
Speaker 1: while they were all sitting around having dinner, I had
Speaker 1: come downstairs, walked up to the water cooler, pissed in
Speaker 1: it as if it were a urinal, without saying a word,
Speaker 1: and then gone back upstairs and gone back to sleep.
Speaker 1: You were wait, were you sleepwalking? I was sleepwalking? I don't.
Speaker 1: I haven't known memory of this. Well, how could you
Speaker 1: so accurately piss into a water cooler in your sleep?
Speaker 1: That's not possible. You were possessed. I was possessed by
Speaker 1: I was much like much like Ginny Weasley and Harry
Speaker 1: Potter and the Chamber of secrets. God, God, that's so weird. Rose,
Speaker 1: you should be more so by that story. I know
Speaker 1: it was. It's very that has it's it is giving hereditary,
Speaker 1: and it's something that has haunted me throughout my entire life,
Speaker 1: and like growing up, my my mom and my stepdad
Speaker 1: and my brother would always joke about it, and I'd
Speaker 1: get really pissed off, like because it was embarrassing because
Speaker 1: I didn't remember it and it I was humiliated. So
Speaker 1: that to me is like the beginning of my summer
Speaker 1: camp journey and in many ways makes a lot of
Speaker 1: sense considering some of the experiences I've had at variously. Question, So,
Speaker 1: since you're sharing embarrassing stories, I will concede the fact
Speaker 1: that I was a bed wetter probably until I was
Speaker 1: almost like tennish. But I don't know. I don't think
Speaker 1: I've ever pissed my pants at camp, like to my recollection,
Speaker 1: I feel like I would viscerally remember that. But I
Speaker 1: definitely had that fear every time I was in a
Speaker 1: sort of slumber party situation. But honestly, my parents didn't
Speaker 1: really let me do sleepovers because you know, parents like those.
Speaker 1: I think there's a hard and fast rule with like
Speaker 1: more conservative parents are more like issy parents that just
Speaker 1: like they just don't do sleepovers, which is like bonkers
Speaker 1: to me. But I will tell you that my version
Speaker 1: of that story is I got pink I at Jesus Camp.
Speaker 1: I think my first or second year and pinky Okay,
Speaker 1: when you're at summer camp, first things, First, you got crushes. Okay,
Speaker 1: you're telling everyone you got crushes on the girls. I
Speaker 1: personally secretly have crushes on the boys. You are surrounded
Speaker 1: by puberty. You're surrounded by people that are more puba yes, yes, pubes,
Speaker 1: people that are more pubescent than you like, and you
Speaker 1: feel insecure about like who's grown and who's not. You
Speaker 1: feel insecure about who's cool and who's not, Like what
Speaker 1: movies they've seen that you've never heard of? Like I
Speaker 1: had so much insecurity at camp because you're coalescing with
Speaker 1: people that like aren't at your school, completely outside of
Speaker 1: your you know wherewithal So when I got pink eye
Speaker 1: and became this untouchable loser and everyone knew it, I
Speaker 1: was like, oh my god, could I have a more
Speaker 1: worse experience here at Jesus Camp. Everyone was like very
Speaker 1: gracious about it, Like no one really made fun of
Speaker 1: it because you know, everyone loved Jesus, but like, it
Speaker 1: was still nasty and I do have like it. It
Speaker 1: is singed in my memory as an unpleasant camp experience,
Speaker 1: but I loved summer camp. Loved I also loved summer camp.
Speaker 1: I went to a camp that was okay. So there's
Speaker 1: a a very well known theater camp called French Woods.
Speaker 1: That's what the movie Camp is based off of, which
Speaker 1: is one of my favorite films Anna Kendrick, her best work,
Speaker 1: She Is Fucked, I'm Ready, and the Goddamn Show Must Gone.
Speaker 1: But we were sort of like a sister camp to
Speaker 1: French Woods. So it was either sports or the arts,
Speaker 1: which I guess are still kind of the only camp activity.
Speaker 1: So it's not like we were special. But I was
Speaker 1: the only quote unquote boy who was like into theater
Speaker 1: only why not the only one, but I was the
Speaker 1: most into theater, so I got the lee and rolls
Speaker 1: in all that. I know that I knew that.
Speaker 2: Yeah, so that was a big part of my camp experience.
Speaker 2: But also I have another embarrassing story that has something
Speaker 2: to do with evacuating your body. So I was I
Speaker 2: have always been very pe shy when I used to
Speaker 2: use bathrooms that had urinals in them.
Speaker 1: I never pissed on someone during sex because you're p right, No,
Speaker 1: I like to be pressed on. I don't like. I
Speaker 1: still get very p shy.
Speaker 2: So you know, back when I used to use bathrooms
Speaker 2: i had urinals, I like hated being at a urinal
Speaker 2: because I'm very p shy. I also in my childhood
Speaker 2: was very poop shy and I did not want to
Speaker 2: poop in public. So when I got to see you
Speaker 2: were one of those, I didn't seven day.
Speaker 1: I knew I didn't shy. I didn't ship for a
Speaker 1: full for a full week. When I went to camp
Speaker 1: and I had to be sent I had to be
Speaker 1: sent to the click. I had to be sent to
Speaker 1: the clinic because I had like the worst just stomach
Speaker 1: ache ever. And the nurse took one look at me.
Speaker 1: I was like, when was the last night? And I
Speaker 1: was like, I was like at my grandma's house before
Speaker 1: we got here, and she was like, she was like,
Speaker 1: go in there and take a ship.
Speaker 2: And I was like, can you like puun some music
Speaker 2: or something or like walk go out in the ride,
Speaker 2: and she did it did work.
Speaker 1: I shot and I felt so much better and that
Speaker 1: was the first step in me becoming comfortable with shitting
Speaker 1: in public. In public such a funny and now I
Speaker 1: sha all the time everywhere. I mean, I still don't
Speaker 1: love to ship in like a crowded but you know
Speaker 1: when you're in an audience, but I do it because
Speaker 1: you know, it's what the people want when.
Speaker 2: You're in a bunk with especially with teenage boys. Like
Speaker 2: that's the thing at my my bunk at Sleepway Camp.
Speaker 2: So it was like it wasn't so you know, you're
Speaker 2: like grouped by bunk at camp, but our bunks were
Speaker 2: like interconnected, so it was like four different bunk groupings.
Speaker 2: Then we all shared one big bathroom in the middle,
Speaker 2: so there there was always someone around listening to me
Speaker 2: take a dumb and it made me very self conscious,
Speaker 2: but you know it did help, is that especially that
Speaker 2: first summer. The albums that went triple platinum and R
Speaker 2: Bunk were Eminem's debut album That's Extremely Summer and Yes
Speaker 2: and the south Park movie soundtrack, which I honestly I
Speaker 2: love the south Park movie south Park, bigger, longer and
Speaker 2: uncut scenes, and I was I was sitting on that
Speaker 2: toilet singing blame Canada while I was trying to poop. No, okay,
Speaker 2: the South Park, the South Park of it all is
Speaker 2: emblematic of something that honestly, you know we're talking about
Speaker 2: right here in summer camp culture, which is that boys
Speaker 2: are disgusting.
Speaker 1: South Park is disgusting just cater to like gross little boys.
Speaker 1: And when you are at summer camp and you have
Speaker 1: to get used to, you know, pissed ship, pee, pooh, far,
Speaker 1: puke whatever, like, it's like they the kids they lean
Speaker 1: into that, get the boys lean into that, and so
Speaker 1: all of a sudden it's like he and pooh and
Speaker 1: fart and puke jokes, and it's like, no, like this
Speaker 1: is everyone's farting on each other, like you're spinning on people,
Speaker 1: like gendered memories like happening in those like toxically masculine
Speaker 1: spaces where I'm just like, I was like, this isn't
Speaker 1: me dog, Like I don't understand, I don't belong here.
Speaker 1: Get me out, not dog. Yeah, camp food also will
Speaker 1: will stop you up. We have to say it.
Speaker 2: Yes, there was one summer where I only ate jello
Speaker 2: from from the cafeteria, and I mean I was having
Speaker 2: some very liquidy shits.
Speaker 1: It was.
Speaker 2: It also like blue, like I don't, I don't recall,
Speaker 2: but that was also the summer that I had my
Speaker 2: first girlfriend, whose name I believe was Christine Christine, And
Speaker 2: it was also the summer that I that It was
Speaker 2: also the summer that I sucked my first dude.
Speaker 1: Oh wow, two for one? Wait Christine? How long did
Speaker 1: that relate and ate pussy for the first time? Oh
Speaker 1: my god? Wait you did?
Speaker 2: I had all my first sexual experiences your most bisexual summer?
Speaker 2: How How long did Christine the summer I turned pretty
Speaker 2: How long did wait? Is that that's a movie, right,
Speaker 2: it's a TV show? And okay, what was how long
Speaker 2: did your relationship with Christine last? I believe it was
Speaker 2: fairly long by camp standards, so I'm gonna say like
Speaker 2: six EPs.
Speaker 1: Okay. I had a crush I think my second year
Speaker 1: at summer camp on a girl named Ashley, who I
Speaker 1: did really fall for and I tried. She lived in Michigan,
Speaker 1: but I my parents, our parents, respected parents, facilitated us
Speaker 1: meeting after camp, Like we met up in Michigan so
Speaker 1: we could go on this like chaperone date for like
Speaker 1: like me and my long distance like camp crush. Isn't
Speaker 1: that wild? Like, I don't know if I would ever
Speaker 1: do that. Seeing camp friends outside of camp isn't it
Speaker 1: was so it's wrong. It's like it's like honestly, like
Speaker 1: you know, like you're at in Order Forbid. It's like
Speaker 1: you're at an orgy and they turn on the fluorescent lighting.
Speaker 1: It's like, so not like you because you're.
Speaker 2: A different person at camp than you are in real life,
Speaker 2: and like the two are not supposed to miss. And
Speaker 2: if there's any time I've seen camp people outside of camp,
Speaker 2: and it's happened very rarely, it's felt so weird and wrong.
Speaker 2: Something that's very powerful about camp is that you never
Speaker 2: think about your parents, like or at least I didn't
Speaker 2: like parents being gone.
Speaker 1: I really just not me. I like, oh, okay, you
Speaker 1: missed mom and dad.
Speaker 2: Yeah, so at my So the proper Sleepway camp that
Speaker 2: I went to, you're not allowed to call home for
Speaker 2: the first seven days because they know that if you do,
Speaker 2: you'll be like I want to come home, So they
Speaker 2: force you to. They forced it to do no contact
Speaker 2: for the first seven days, and I was miserable. I
Speaker 2: wanted to get the fuck out of there. Also because
Speaker 2: so I went to camp in the Poconos in Pennsylvania,
Speaker 2: and you know, I grew up in Florida. So before camp,
Speaker 2: we would go up to Long Island and stay with
Speaker 2: my grandma and grandpa for like a week or two,
Speaker 2: and then we.
Speaker 1: Would go to camp. So by the time I got
Speaker 1: to camp, I had it had already been a long
Speaker 1: time since I had seen my mom, and I missed her.
Speaker 2: So much, and she was so happy I was gone,
Speaker 2: so I was. It was I was very sad. But
Speaker 2: and what also made me upset was that such a
Speaker 2: huge part of camp, especially when we were going to camp,
Speaker 2: you know in the late nineties early two thousands, was
Speaker 2: receiving mail and getting letters and care packages from your parents.
Speaker 2: And let me tell you one thing my mom was
Speaker 2: not doing during the summer when her kids were a
Speaker 2: camp was putting together care packages.
Speaker 1: She did not give a ship. Oh, my parents would
Speaker 1: do care packages, but that's because they missed me. And
Speaker 1: I what would you get in them? Yeah, blube com.
Speaker 1: You like, you're like write your mom. You're like, hey,
Speaker 1: next time, can you send me the one from from Yeah?
Speaker 1: You're like, next time, can you get the like artisanal poppers? I? Yeah, no, right,
Speaker 1: I feel I don't know. I would get like peanut
Speaker 1: em and m's I think I got. I would get
Speaker 1: like a book. You I think it was like stocked
Speaker 1: with stuff from the camp store. But oh the com
Speaker 1: or the commissary or like whatever it's called, the gummy candies,
Speaker 1: the chocolate bars. H commissary was it. And they also
Speaker 1: would merch that you could buy you did. I think
Speaker 1: they had like store credits that your parents. It's so merch.
Speaker 1: It's just like I don't think it's like they're selling.
Speaker 1: It's not like they're selling chromatica jobs. They were at
Speaker 1: my Jesus camp. But unlike you, I never got homesick, okay,
Speaker 1: hated going home and my parents picked me up. I
Speaker 1: was devastated. I did not want to leave. The only
Speaker 1: time I ever ever longed for home, which did not
Speaker 1: long for my parents long for home, was when I
Speaker 1: was at Boy quote unquote Scouts camp. Boy Scouts Camp was,
Speaker 1: which was how old were you I was? I don't know,
Speaker 1: like I was a tween maybe so I was probably
Speaker 1: like eleven or twelve, like you know, waking up in
Speaker 1: like a wet tent on the floor on a tarp
Speaker 1: and like stinky boys eating gross chili mac and being
Speaker 1: disgusting doing disgusting things like shitting at holes and drinking
Speaker 1: ketchup from the bottle like like because they're daring each other.
Speaker 2: Like way the things that boys do with food are
Speaker 2: so disgusting. Teenage, teenage and especially like pubescent boys are
Speaker 2: the literal worst people in the world.
Speaker 1: Yeah they are. Just having been one of them, I
Speaker 1: can say that when I like surrounded by those disgusting
Speaker 1: boys like I actually very vividly remember going to like
Speaker 1: some sort of ski camp and like Austin and Bradley
Speaker 1: called me a fagot and I was like, and I
Speaker 1: was like, shut up you like literally like drink barbecue sauce,
Speaker 1: like you're disgusting. Who's the real fag real fag here?
Speaker 1: But like in that moment, I wasn't like sick for home.
Speaker 1: I was like eleven years old, and I was like,
Speaker 1: I need to be in a hotel, like I cannot
Speaker 1: be here. I need to be comfortable.
Speaker 2: You're such a fucking taurus. Did you do Did you
Speaker 2: do color war at camp?
Speaker 1: Is that where you like would fling like you know,
Speaker 1: colored powder or like like paint balloons or something or
Speaker 1: what I remember? But color war colors like a race war.
Speaker 1: Phoebe said, the camp color wally, and there are you know,
Speaker 1: a hundred white, I mean, and three people of helm.
Speaker 1: Kind of it's like a it's like a week long
Speaker 1: camp wide thing where one half of camp is one color,
Speaker 1: one half of camp is another color.
Speaker 2: It's usually red and blue is the number of It
Speaker 2: is a race war, and there's a number of competitions
Speaker 2: throughout the week, and one color wins at the end.
Speaker 2: So the camp I went to was split up into
Speaker 2: sessions throughout the summer, so there was like the early session,
Speaker 2: the middle session, the late session. My brother and I
Speaker 2: always went there for the early sessions because school in
Speaker 2: Florida let out earlier, but then we went back to
Speaker 2: school earlier, so we went back to school like mid August.
Speaker 2: The kids who were in the Northeast didn't go back
Speaker 2: to school until after Labor Day, so they would always
Speaker 2: be there for the third session, and color War always
Speaker 2: happened during the third session, except for my last year
Speaker 2: at camp, which honestly was the year before my freshman
Speaker 2: year of high school. I was a little too old
Speaker 2: to be here there. I was a little too old
Speaker 2: for camp that year, and I really hated it. But
Speaker 2: that was the summer where all the suckingd fucking happened.
Speaker 2: But that was the summer that I got to do
Speaker 2: Color War and I was blue and my color lost.
Speaker 2: And when I tell you, I have never been more
Speaker 2: devastated in my life than when we lost Color War.
Speaker 2: And I didn't participate in a single activity. I am
Speaker 2: not an outdoor girl in that way. I'm not doing
Speaker 2: the three legged race, I'm not hopping in a potato sock.
Speaker 2: I'm not doing like a baton relay race. I couldn't
Speaker 2: give a shit. But when we lost Color War, I sobbed.
Speaker 1: I subbed, Babetta, get like my mom died. I gotta
Speaker 1: get a grip, my god, I do we Okay? So
Speaker 1: our camp definitely had a kind of a kind of
Speaker 1: camp wide game. We're in the respective cabins were pit
Speaker 1: against each other like each cabin is a team, and
Speaker 1: everyone had to do something something throughout the week. I
Speaker 1: don't even remember what the object object was, which is
Speaker 1: how little I cared. But on that note, uh, just
Speaker 1: another reason why camp is just not really my thing,
Speaker 1: especially when it comes to boys. Camp is I Since
Speaker 1: I was a teeny tiny baby and now as a
Speaker 1: full fledged adults remains to be true. I absolutely despise
Speaker 1: manual labor of any kind. I will not do it
Speaker 1: unless I absolutely have to labor. No, yeah, I'm all
Speaker 1: about that. Will manual labor. Okay, I'm not tranual labor.
Speaker 1: That's so funny. Emual labor. Yeah, that's all I was
Speaker 1: trying to do. I was like, look out for that
Speaker 1: podcast coming next year. To that to the outspoken me
Speaker 1: and Jonathan Vndes, No, I'm just kidding. No, Jonathan is transit,
Speaker 1: but yeah, I I am really just There's so many
Speaker 1: things that I loved about summer Camp, primarily just not
Speaker 1: being around my parents for two three weeks, but and
Speaker 1: I also loved, you know, autonomy. I loved like being
Speaker 1: able to like build friendships like outside of the context
Speaker 1: of your own life, as we've talked about. But something
Speaker 1: that Phoebe has said in the chat that I think
Speaker 1: is a very lesbian contribution to this conversation is that
Speaker 1: parent Trap was extremely formative of my kind of like
Speaker 1: view on summer Camp. Like the summer camp in the
Speaker 1: movie is so idyllic and like fun and creative and
Speaker 1: naughty troublemakery, like you aspire to be as cool and
Speaker 1: like like as a rich a narrative as like those kids,
Speaker 1: and I really did fulfill that like ore and rich.
Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, yeah, let's let's say that like those kids
Speaker 1: were rich, But no, I really did, like you have
Speaker 1: to be to be being sent to these camps, Like
Speaker 1: they cost a lot of money. OURK summer camps had
Speaker 1: like scholarships where you would get like stipends to like
Speaker 1: offset the cost of your like tuition.
Speaker 2: But if I if I remember correctly, yeah, I actually
Speaker 2: think it costs like I think probably like a thousand
Speaker 2: dollars or something like that for me to go. I
Speaker 2: think it was at least a thousand dollars. I actually
Speaker 2: need to check in. I actually don't know how much
Speaker 2: how much it was, but I don't know. I did
Speaker 2: you do you like parent Trap?
Speaker 1: Are you? Are you a parent Trap stand? Because I
Speaker 1: love the of course I feel like Meredith Blake, right,
Speaker 1: I mean, Meredith Blake is definitely formative cultural like figure
Speaker 1: like the evil femmes that I would latch onto. Meredith
Speaker 1: invented athletes. I feel like the parent Trap was unfortunately
Speaker 1: a very millennial thing, like it's like everyone yeah, like
Speaker 1: BuzzFeed culture like loves the Parent Trap, like the Parent Traps.
Speaker 1: They'll they'll never stop talking about it. It's like it's
Speaker 1: the only movie that came out in the in the nineties. Yeah,
Speaker 1: that in Napoleone. So so.
Speaker 2: I don't know about you, but you know, as I said,
Speaker 2: theater was the thing that I did at camp.
Speaker 1: You know, that's that was my reason for being there.
Speaker 1: All the world of stage. Honey, hand me a microphone.
Speaker 1: And as I said, I starred in almost every production
Speaker 1: that we did during my time there. I was in
Speaker 1: Annie Get Your Gun. I was in Newsy's.
Speaker 2: We did a production of Newsies long before it was
Speaker 2: made into a Broadway show, so it was like not
Speaker 2: very normal to do Newsies as a stage show.
Speaker 1: I mean, we can believe this, But would you like
Speaker 1: to share who you played at any of these respective Yeah?
Speaker 2: I was Frank in Newsy I mean I was Frank
Speaker 2: and any Get Your Gun, which is the male lead.
Speaker 1: I did you know anything you can do? I can
Speaker 1: do better?
Speaker 2: And of course all of these shows I wanted to
Speaker 2: play the I wanted to be Annie. And like it's
Speaker 2: the thing is there was still gender bending that happened
Speaker 2: because when I was in Newsi's the Christian Bale character
Speaker 2: was played by a little because there were not enough
Speaker 2: boys who wanted to do a theater, so they were
Speaker 2: casting It's like, you know, it's like very peter Pan.
Speaker 1: This. They cast this like like androgynous young.
Speaker 2: Female Williams in Yeah, I went to camp with Alison Williams.
Speaker 2: But yeah, I like I was such in my mind,
Speaker 2: I was such hot shit. But like the whole half
Speaker 2: of the camp that like didn't do anything, you know, theatrical,
Speaker 2: like thought we were all losers.
Speaker 1: Which would you say on a metric of quality and
Speaker 1: your critical eye was the best production you did?
Speaker 2: And why probably any gets your gun because there weren't
Speaker 2: as many fucking like toddlers in it as there were
Speaker 2: in Yeazies because we had to fill out the cast.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: And then my last year at camp, when I was
Speaker 2: I had gotten you know, too old, I was like,
Speaker 2: I'm not doing theater this year because I'm better than this,
Speaker 2: because I'm going you know, I was like going to
Speaker 2: an art school that fall, and I was like, fuck this,
Speaker 2: I'm just gonna like listen to my.
Speaker 1: Walk and smoke weed, smoke me hold my ship, smoke weed,
Speaker 1: suck my first dick, fall in love with my best
Speaker 1: friend and go figure skating, because that's something we got
Speaker 1: to do. At my camp, they had, you know, your day,
Speaker 1: split them into activities, and you have to sign up
Speaker 1: for activities every day. And one of the things we
Speaker 1: could do was take the camp vans to the local
Speaker 1: ice skating rink and you could either do figure skating
Speaker 1: or ice hockey. Do you want to guess which one
Speaker 1: they did? Probably figure skating. I'm gonna guess trick question.
Speaker 1: I did both. I did both. Wait, wait, figure skating
Speaker 1: doesn't seem like something you would like. Were you good
Speaker 1: at it? I love figure skating.
Speaker 2: I was not good at it, but I was, you know,
Speaker 2: I was like twirling while Drops of Jubiter was playing
Speaker 2: over the sound system.
Speaker 1: Oh my god, not Drops of Jubiter. They were doing
Speaker 1: what's that Aerosmith song? I don't want to miss thing?
Speaker 1: Remember we I didn't. I hated sports of any kind,
Speaker 1: so but yeah, I don't know what like summer camp
Speaker 1: they just they kind of Summer camps are like extremely gendered,
Speaker 1: but also I fear like two genderless, Like they really
Speaker 1: try and mesh boys and girls in like games of
Speaker 1: sports and like relay races and like high ropes courses,
Speaker 1: and it's like, actually, no, like we should be segregating
Speaker 1: genders and the girls should just do arts and I
Speaker 1: should be a girl like I. I do not want
Speaker 1: to do the high rope scores. I don't want to
Speaker 1: do the sports. I don't want to do the manual
Speaker 1: labor like just like like shelter me, treat me like
Speaker 1: a fragile, little, you know, porcelain doll and never let
Speaker 1: me be in danger.
Speaker 2: Sorry, no, I I agree, but a slight but from
Speaker 2: a slightly different angle. Because I was a fat kid obviously,
Speaker 2: so I hated playing sports. I was really bad at them.
Speaker 2: I was not I was an indoor kid, so I
Speaker 2: was always somewhere reading and or doing theater, or like
Speaker 2: at the Arts and Crafts building doing arts and crafts.
Speaker 2: I did not want to play sports, except when I
Speaker 2: was doing ice hockey and I was actually d.
Speaker 1: Okay wait, I have no oh my god, the most
Speaker 1: visceral childhood slash teenage memories have like come back to
Speaker 1: me of probably my best year at Jesus Camp, wherein
Speaker 1: I did date that girl or try to date that girl, Ashley,
Speaker 1: and I was also madly in love with my best
Speaker 1: camp friend named Luke, who we were both so viciously closeted.
Speaker 1: He had bleach blonde hair and a mere apostle, plaid
Speaker 1: shorts and like you know those like canvas leather thongs,
Speaker 1: like pleather thongs, I mean for the the ones that
Speaker 1: I was wearing in that. Yeah, honey, he was dressed.
Speaker 1: Oh my god, I hate that. I love it at
Speaker 1: summer camp. Okay, but I was going to ask you
Speaker 1: a question that would lead into my story. Did you
Speaker 1: get naked in the locker rooms? Was their nudity? No?
Speaker 2: It was always like covering myself with a towel, changing,
Speaker 2: changing in the shower stuff.
Speaker 1: The girls, other boys, the other girls, thanks for driving
Speaker 1: the other other boys they were oh no, they were
Speaker 1: walking around like fucking they didn't care. It was like, well,
Speaker 1: it was you know this thing that teen boys do
Speaker 1: where it's like it's engaged. You know, they're engaging. They're
Speaker 1: engaging in the most home erootic behavior, but like with
Speaker 1: the most no homes. And it's honestly like the kids
Speaker 1: that were like grew up Christian had so much shame
Speaker 1: that we just like had our tidies, tidy whities, on
Speaker 1: for dear life and like not showering the entire week,
Speaker 1: because like that was like the most terrifying thing I
Speaker 1: could possibly in front of someone, like being naked. But
Speaker 1: to your point, all these other little everywhere, all these
Speaker 1: other little boys were like love to be naked, and
Speaker 1: we're totally comfortable with it. And I remember enving them
Speaker 1: and being like why, Like why am I so afraid
Speaker 1: to be nude? But I rose seeing my crushes penises
Speaker 1: in this shower and like the feeling that that has
Speaker 1: it's like pool party. It's like pool party trauma, Like
Speaker 1: it's so there's so much shame. But also I was
Speaker 1: so confused about what I was feeling, and like we
Speaker 1: were and the two of us, me and Luke were
Speaker 1: like so in the closet and so clearly into each
Speaker 1: other because we're spending every minute together and yet and
Speaker 1: I remember them being like they were like, why don't
Speaker 1: you get naked too? And I'm like, what the the
Speaker 1: homosociality of summer camp in general? Like what is that?
Speaker 1: It's so confusing? I don't know.
Speaker 2: I mean, well, it's well, you're all going through puberty,
Speaker 2: it's very sexually charged. Everything is sexual. I actually I
Speaker 2: can't speak for anyone else, but after I went through puberty,
Speaker 2: I was under the covers fappen every night that blank
Speaker 2: That blanket could have been cracked in from all the
Speaker 2: dry throat of the dry ye on it. Because I
Speaker 2: there was one summer that I found I was learning
Speaker 2: to play the drums in the band cabin, the band
Speaker 2: bunk or whatever, and I found a porn novel on
Speaker 2: the floor and I it gave me so much material
Speaker 2: to work with.
Speaker 1: You love the written word, baby, I love the written word.
Speaker 1: To yank your crank too, baby, Uncle Ronnie do horties.
Speaker 1: You know, when you're at that like qu best and
Speaker 1: preps in age, like you're starting to make sex jokes.
Speaker 1: And even though we were at Jesus Camp, the kids
Speaker 1: would like make jokes and then the counselors would like
Speaker 1: yell at them. But mind you, the counselors are really
Speaker 1: only like seventeen, Like they're not even like of age.
Speaker 1: They're just like, you know, three or four years older
Speaker 1: than the kids they are attending to. And like when
Speaker 1: you're that young, three to five years feels like twenty years,
Speaker 1: like they might as well be thirty something. Yeah, did
Speaker 1: any of the counselors that your camp fuck the campaigners
Speaker 1: because that that happened. Oh, oh my god, that's really
Speaker 1: fucked up. No, but one of them was, yeah, they
Speaker 1: used to get us if they used to get us
Speaker 1: booze and they used to fuck. There were two that
Speaker 1: So the year that my favorite year at summer camp
Speaker 1: where I fell in love with Luke and Ashley, I
Speaker 1: also had two very transparently closeted gay counselors named Gloria
Speaker 1: and Kenny. And I remember Kenny yelling at these kids
Speaker 1: because like one of them was like under his cover
Speaker 1: and like proclaiming to the rest of the cabin that
Speaker 1: he was like playing with himself. And I was like,
Speaker 1: this guy, you have like a like a kind of
Speaker 1: like exhibitionist like thing that you know you're going to
Speaker 1: discover later on in life. Yeah, wait, who are camp counselors? What?
Speaker 1: So did you ever become a camp counselor? Yes, but
Speaker 1: but never never for a summer camp. There were a
Speaker 1: couple years.
Speaker 2: Where I was a camp counselor at like a winter
Speaker 2: break camp, but I was always more of a babysitter.
Speaker 1: I did not do a lot of camp counselor ing.
Speaker 1: I was never a c T a counselor in training,
Speaker 1: but my younger brother was. At one point I was,
Speaker 1: and we still had to pay to be there. We
Speaker 1: had to pay a discounted camp rate to basically do
Speaker 1: essentially like free labor for the summer camp counseling these kids.
Speaker 1: And we like clean toilets and like did like cafeteria shifts,
Speaker 1: like what we had to pay to do that. It's crazy.
Speaker 1: But I was gonna say something that was very silly
Speaker 1: that I had to then do as a camp counselor
Speaker 1: but also did as a camper. Was after I think
Speaker 1: I've already told you this before, after every single camp activity,
Speaker 1: whether it was like zipline, like doing tubing, the blob
Speaker 1: arts and crafts whatever, after tubing, after every activity, we
Speaker 1: would get in a circle, like our cabin would get
Speaker 1: in a circle, and we would talk about how that
Speaker 1: activity related to Jesus Christ. And it'd be like, so
Speaker 1: today today we're at the high robes chores, Like, how
Speaker 1: is this like your relationship with Jesus? And I was like,
Speaker 1: Jesus is the ropes and gravity is the devil, and
Speaker 1: and you know if you fall, it's a sin. And
Speaker 1: like that's like what we had to do. We had
Speaker 1: to like metaphorize like every fucking thing we did, Like
Speaker 1: we were like, you know, eighth grade English students, and
Speaker 1: I hate I hated it. It was so forced. Wow,
Speaker 1: that's so lame.
Speaker 2: The summer after my last year at Sleepway Camp, because
Speaker 2: you know, my brother was still going to camp and
Speaker 2: my mom obviously still wanted to get rid of me.
Speaker 2: During the summer, I did the sort of next level
Speaker 2: of camp, which is a teen tour. Do you know
Speaker 2: what a teen tour is?
Speaker 1: Yeah? What is it?
Speaker 2: So it's like a bunch of teenagers are sent on
Speaker 2: a trip. It's like traveling summer camp. So you're on
Speaker 2: a bus with a bunch of other teenagers and you
Speaker 2: go on like a pre selected route. So the teen
Speaker 2: tour I went on was all the West Coast, so
Speaker 2: we would go to like the national parks. We went
Speaker 2: to Stay Francisco, we went to La went to Salt
Speaker 2: Lake City, I think, and some of them are all camping,
Speaker 2: some of them are all hotels. Ours was half and
Speaker 2: half and yeah, it's it's like summer camp on the road,
Speaker 2: and so it's like a little bit more grown up,
Speaker 2: and I felt very worldly. You know that I went
Speaker 2: and explored the other side of the country. And that's
Speaker 2: also where I made my first designer purchase ever, was
Speaker 2: in San Francisco. I went to the Louis Bauton store
Speaker 2: and bought a pair of slides with my mom's Target
Speaker 2: credit card that she had given me for emergency.
Speaker 1: You were such a little brat like I was. Abe
Speaker 1: LV is like the Gateway luxury brand those But why
Speaker 1: those bags are hideous? I guess they are kind of
Speaker 1: like doniye Burk adjacent, Like they are so ugly that
Speaker 1: Midwestern moms like just have to have them. It's just
Speaker 1: about the label.
Speaker 2: It's like the most it's the most visible logo of
Speaker 2: any you know, designer friend.
Speaker 1: What when did you stop going to camp? Not soon enough?
Speaker 1: I actually don't know. I probably stopped when I was, like,
Speaker 1: I mean, definitely before I think my I think freshman
Speaker 1: year of high school maybe was my last year. Like
Speaker 1: I think that by the time I had entered high school,
Speaker 1: I had started to, you know, liberate myself a little bit.
Speaker 1: I was starting to think for myself. I was trying to,
Speaker 1: you know, figure out who I was. And I think
Speaker 1: as a consequence of that I just hated church, hated Christianity,
Speaker 1: hated like being around church people, and was just pulling
Speaker 1: away from it as much as possible. So I did,
Speaker 1: you know, eventually stop going. But it felt so sad,
Speaker 1: like I felt, I feel like because I was such
Speaker 1: a I don't know what kind of like high.
Speaker 3: School that you were, like, I was such a loser
Speaker 3: in school, like a loser, loser, loser until like pretty
Speaker 3: much my last two years of school before college and.
Speaker 1: Summer camp is where I felt like I belonged, Like
Speaker 1: uh yeah, And you know why.
Speaker 2: You know why that is because you get to lie
Speaker 2: about who you are because no, because no one goes
Speaker 2: to school with you, So you get to lie your
Speaker 2: ass off about your life and make yourself sound a
Speaker 2: lot cooler than you are. The only problem I ran
Speaker 2: into with that was that I had a younger brother
Speaker 2: who was always happy to contradict my lies and tell
Speaker 2: people what the truth was about my life.
Speaker 1: EW I knowed I hate I mean, I I mean,
Speaker 1: I was like definitely in there being like, yeah, I'm straight,
Speaker 1: you gras, I'm totally a boy, you guys, But I
Speaker 1: feel like there is like I feel like I was
Speaker 1: ultimately actually trying to be myself because I couldn't be
Speaker 1: myself back at home in some way. So I am
Speaker 1: grateful to like have had that space in Summer camp.
Speaker 1: And something else that's very specific to Jesus Camp that
Speaker 1: I don't know if you did a version of this,
Speaker 1: but every night, or maybe every other night, maybe we
Speaker 1: took a night off every other night or so, we
Speaker 1: would have like a kind of campfire moment where we
Speaker 1: would do like a little worship music and we would
Speaker 1: like do like an icebreak or something, and then we
Speaker 1: would take turns sharing our deepest, darkest trauma. And and literally,
Speaker 1: I'm not joking, I'm not joking. It was like it
Speaker 1: was is honestly, it's honestly like the heart Circles of
Speaker 1: Beltane like it. But the way it was so methodical,
Speaker 1: like every single kid was required to have like a
Speaker 1: sharing moment at this campfire, and because of the prompts
Speaker 1: and like how it was set up to like you know,
Speaker 1: basically like asking about how you accepted Jesus in your
Speaker 1: heart and like what your like kind of biggest obstacle
Speaker 1: was in it or whatever. These kids were like sobbing
Speaker 1: and talking about you know, when they were like abuse
Speaker 1: start like you know, like having sexual relations with older
Speaker 1: kids or like closet and like I never, you know,
Speaker 1: told him that I was gay, But I don't. I
Speaker 1: don't even remember, like what I had to lie about
Speaker 1: to like tell them what my trauma was. That's that's
Speaker 1: when you that's when the stories came out. Like the
Speaker 1: kid I was, we never had to do any of
Speaker 1: that ship, but that would have been my moment to
Speaker 1: tell the most detailed, outrageous, unbelievable lie that I was,
Speaker 1: like so sure I was getting away with when everyone
Speaker 1: must have been like that kid's like he's her knees
Speaker 1: lying his head. Didn't even need to lie, you could
Speaker 1: just tell them like one. So from there.
Speaker 2: But I loved lying. When I was a kid, I
Speaker 2: loved lying and I thought I was so good. I
Speaker 2: mean always I was, but I always added too much detail.
Speaker 2: But you know, the thing is kids are stupid, so
Speaker 2: they'll believe that too much detail. That's true, But the
Speaker 2: count and they knew what was up, and I was
Speaker 2: such I okay. So I always wanted to be friends
Speaker 2: with both the older campers and the counselors. And I
Speaker 2: still cringe thinking about trying to make counselors like me
Speaker 2: and just what a loser I was, And Sphoebe said,
Speaker 2: this is why I have a podcast now, why Like
Speaker 2: because I was like a lying.
Speaker 1: Loser making up stories. Wow, summer Camp is really dramatic.
Speaker 1: You know.
Speaker 2: I'm I'm like glad that I went. I don't know, well,
Speaker 2: I'm not planning on having children. I don't know that
Speaker 2: I would send them to sleep Boy Camp if I
Speaker 2: were to have children.
Speaker 1: Because.
Speaker 2: Like I get needing the time off from being a parent,
Speaker 2: but also like you signed up.
Speaker 1: For this, so it would depend on my partner. But
Speaker 1: if I have kids, they're going to boarding school. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean not boarding school. I wouldn't be that cruel,
Speaker 1: but yeah, I need a break, Like I don't want
Speaker 1: to see you for months at a time one hundred
Speaker 1: and ten percent otherwise like what am I going to do? Yeah?
Speaker 2: I mean I feel like when my when my nephew
Speaker 2: is like a teenager and my brother and sister in
Speaker 2: law want to send him to camp, I'll be like,
Speaker 2: send him to York. He can stay with me for
Speaker 2: a couple of months and like have a you know,
Speaker 2: an experience. I think that would be but you know,
Speaker 2: they probably want to hang out with kids want to
Speaker 2: hang out with other kids weirdly enough, so he probably
Speaker 2: would rather.
Speaker 1: I mean, I don't know, I just like, I know
Speaker 1: not every kid is like this, but like I craved
Speaker 1: time away from my parents, and you do the most
Speaker 1: growing up when you leave home, leave your parents, find
Speaker 1: a new context. Like it's just good for you and
Speaker 1: good for your soul and no, I just want to
Speaker 1: be around my mom MoMA. Girl.
Speaker 2: Slide into our dms at Like a Virgin four twenty
Speaker 2: sixty nine. Let us know what's your favorite summer camp activity.
Speaker 1: Which color would you want to be in? Color war
Speaker 1: slash I guess the race war. I don't know about that.
Speaker 1: Make sure you listen next week for an all new episode.
Speaker 2: Until then, you can buy our merchan at like a
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Speaker 2: Virgin four weekly bonus episodes, and follow us on Instagram
Speaker 2: at like a Virgin four twenty sixty nine. You can
Speaker 2: also follow me anywhere if you want, at Rose Damue,
Speaker 2: and you can.
Speaker 1: Search my name tran Thrato on any social media platform.
Speaker 1: I need to change my handle ros I can I
Speaker 1: need it to be? You really need to change it.
Speaker 2: Like a Virgin's iHeartRadio production our producers pepe Unter, with
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Speaker 1: Etur Bye Smell Ya later, Luke