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Speaker 1: Hogs summer Hocus Hocus have a kick ass summer. Duh.

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Speaker 1: Because I'm a bad girl, because we're the bad kids,

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Speaker 1: and she's sheen Ami no mate, no my name yo? No?

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Speaker 1: What is your child trauma? I am a Your life's

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Speaker 1: going down before round.

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Speaker 2: Welcome to Like a Virgin, the show where we give

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Speaker 2: yesterday's pop culture today's takes. I'm Rose DomU and I'm

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Speaker 2: Fran Toronto.

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Speaker 1: And.

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Speaker 2: Today the evil will be defeated and Pride Month will

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Speaker 2: be over.

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Speaker 1: That's not technically true, Rose, I mean.

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Speaker 2: Today is in the day that this episode comes out, Oh,

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Speaker 2: the last the last day of June.

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Speaker 1: You know, it's still not true. Rose. Pride is all

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Speaker 1: year round. The thing about pride be for yourself, babes.

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Speaker 1: Pride wasn't even Pride wasn't even in June for me.

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Speaker 1: This year, pride is a state of minds. And pride

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Speaker 1: happens in the UK in July, it happens in it

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Speaker 1: you know, in Atlanta in October. Don't happens in New

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Speaker 1: Orleans in September. Pride happens everywhere all the time because

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Speaker 1: we are prideful all year round. And this year, in

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Speaker 1: partnership with JP Morgan. And on that note, a word

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Speaker 1: from our sponsor, Zappo's Shoes is the Beast.

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Speaker 2: You shouldn't because because we probably do have an ad

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Speaker 2: that's like that we just don't that we just don't

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Speaker 2: know about.

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Speaker 1: Okay, wait, dream Dream Pride sponsorship. Okay, they're buying out that.

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Speaker 1: It's not just a spot, they're buying out like an advertorial. Okay,

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Speaker 1: who is the brand we want? The Church of Scientology.

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Speaker 1: You are only saying that because you want to suck

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Speaker 1: Tom Cruise. Well, yeah, duh. My dream partnership would probably

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Speaker 1: be like, what's something that I legitimately need, like emodium?

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Speaker 1: Oh don't know, you know what I would love because

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Speaker 1: I'm thinking about Gaga right now, if I might as

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Speaker 1: well go big Pharma. I want my Pride partnership for

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Speaker 1: this podcast to be Titlenal extra strength rapid release gels. Okay,

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Speaker 1: this is not every painkiller. This is not every woman. Okay,

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Speaker 1: not ibuprofen. She is an amazing pain reliever that does

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Speaker 1: not in your blood. It acts immediately, and it's very potent,

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Speaker 1: and it's like unlike other painkillers. This I'm literally doing

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Speaker 1: an advertiying. Okay, let's let's move it a lot. Let's

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Speaker 1: move it a pride. I was your pride friend. My

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Speaker 1: pride was filled with the tite little extra strength rapid

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Speaker 1: release jels because I was hungover, stopped doing spot No seriously,

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Speaker 1: I was so drunk and did a lot of drugs

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Speaker 1: and smoked a lot of weed. And that is pride

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Speaker 1: to me. As you know, I did pretty much the

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Speaker 1: opposite of you, which is go to club, another club,

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Speaker 1: another club, bus train, no sleep, no sleep. I have

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Speaker 1: been going to parties all month, not a ton of

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Speaker 1: sponsored parties, which I love, like not even like only

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Speaker 1: like one fashion party, like only really going to like

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Speaker 1: people's convene gatherings, drag events, things that are like self

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Speaker 1: produced or like community produced. I think is like where

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Speaker 1: we should be putting our energy and dollars. Yes, but

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Speaker 1: I also went to body Hack, an amazing trans party

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Speaker 1: that my friend reoed with her organizing collective, and then

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Speaker 1: Poppy Juice after that, and then the next day I

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Speaker 1: went to Dike March, and then I went to Gush,

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Speaker 1: which my friend Angie helps put on. And it's been

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Speaker 1: a queer ass weekend. And then yesterday I went to

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Speaker 1: your least favorite place on the planet and my favorite

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Speaker 1: place on the planet Jacob eas Beach. I will never

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Speaker 1: go there again. I love that beach. Anyways, what did

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Speaker 1: you do this weekend? Rose? So?

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Speaker 2: I well, Thursday, I kicked off Pride by doing a

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Speaker 2: corporate panel with friend of the podcast Charlene.

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Speaker 1: That actually went well. It was very chill.

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Speaker 2: And then Friday, my friend and I went out of

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Speaker 2: town for the weekend to Wyndham, New York, which is

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Speaker 2: in the Catskills.

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Speaker 1: Windham that sounds very Bridgerton. It's a very.

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Speaker 2: It was a very like picturesque little town. And then

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Speaker 2: we were in a cabin that was like faux remote,

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Speaker 2: you know, like it was pretty close to everything, but

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Speaker 2: it looked like very scenic around it. The house was,

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Speaker 2: you know, it had kind of all of the typical

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Speaker 2: airbnb problems. The beds were not very comfortable. It was

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Speaker 2: super hot in it when we got in there, and

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Speaker 2: I had to put the ac in myself.

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Speaker 1: Which was not great. We are going to be talking

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Speaker 1: about and just like that on the Patreon. I was

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Speaker 1: just about to start talking about it now, and then

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Speaker 1: I caught myself and I said, wait a second, the

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Speaker 1: conversation is Paywald.

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Speaker 2: Yes, we have a lot to say though, I do

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Speaker 2: have a lot to say about and just like that,

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Speaker 2: and we're not even we're not even going to give

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Speaker 2: you top level thoughts. If you want a glimpse of taste,

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Speaker 2: a taste of the end, just like that combo, you

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Speaker 2: can hear it. But if you want our full thoughts,

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Speaker 2: and I think this will probably be how we get

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Speaker 2: through the season of end just like that, because the

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Speaker 2: episodes come out Thursday, so just like timing wise, it

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Speaker 2: doesn't really make sense for us to talk about the

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Speaker 2: previous week's episode.

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Speaker 1: So I believe that.

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Speaker 2: And just like that, discussions will live on the Patreon,

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Speaker 2: So go to patreon dot com, slash like a virgin

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Speaker 2: and become a patron if you want to hear our

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Speaker 2: thoughts about it.

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Speaker 1: Gorge h literally so much. Okay, no other TV this weekend, right,

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Speaker 1: I mean you were just reading on your little your

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Speaker 1: little pride escape and your little pride escape hat.

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Speaker 2: No, we actually did watch a couple episodes of Glamorous

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Speaker 2: on Netflix and it seems fun.

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Speaker 1: It's fun. Is it about like a editor and she

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Speaker 1: like a mean editor lady and like a lowly assistant.

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Speaker 1: That that is the problem with it.

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Speaker 2: No, the problem is that Kim Katrall is basically playing

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Speaker 2: Miranda Priestley in the Devorce praduc if she was nice?

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Speaker 1: What? And that's boring? Why is she nice?

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Speaker 2: I don't know. I wish I knew she is nice.

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Speaker 2: She's a nice boss was a nice What is the conflict?

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Speaker 2: The conflict seems to be that the main character is

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Speaker 2: and he's not he in the show is not even

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Speaker 2: non binary. What they're actually I'm about four episodes in

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Speaker 2: there has been zero discussion of gender. No one's at

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Speaker 2: any point like asked his pronouns, and like they're basically

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Speaker 2: no person that's I guess that's fine, And like at

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Speaker 2: one point they do make reference to being a femme

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Speaker 2: gay guy. But for a show that's like the headline

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Speaker 2: is about a boy who wears makeup, it is seems

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Speaker 2: to be remarkably uninterested in the you know, gender and

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Speaker 2: identity implications of that.

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Speaker 1: Which is can I guess a choice? I I really

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Speaker 1: shouldn't say any because I have not watched a single

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Speaker 1: second of the show, not even the trailer, so I

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Speaker 1: don't even know what it's about totally. But from what

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Speaker 1: you're describing, I will say it is awesome to have

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Speaker 1: any sort of circumstance where you know a transactor is

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Speaker 1: playing a cisgender role. I actually don't even know if

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Speaker 1: miss Benny identifies as trans, but like she's definitely giving

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Speaker 1: on binary and I think that's dope. I am shocked

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Speaker 1: though that Netflix would not have would not lean into

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Speaker 1: that conversation, you know, in the kind of writing way.

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Speaker 1: But maybe that's a great thing. And I don't know

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Speaker 1: how that what this show feels like. But like if

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Speaker 1: someone's like visibly gender non conforming, I don't really need

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Speaker 1: to have a convert I don't need like there to

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Speaker 1: be a scene that's like a conversation about it. But

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Speaker 1: in a real life it would come up naturally in

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Speaker 1: a little in between moments. There are ways to crack

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Speaker 1: jokes about it and reference it. Honestly, sort of this

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Speaker 1: does this really well, sort of an HBO the kind

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Speaker 1: of trans South Asian Daria that I was telling you about.

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Speaker 1: The jokes are very like off the cuff gender jokes

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Speaker 1: that like fit in between the actual plot and meat

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Speaker 1: of the show. Anyways, Yeah, I mean I will watch it.

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Speaker 1: I'm gonna it is a fun like head empty trash

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Speaker 1: TV watch, and that is what I will say about it. Oh, well,

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Speaker 1: is that I do? I do? I hear? Do I

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Speaker 1: hear an episode coming up? What is that? I what

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Speaker 1: are you holding? I'm holding a large shell to my ear. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and I think I'm getting that. We are talking about

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Speaker 1: summer camp today.

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Speaker 2: Yes, we are talking about camp, not the not the

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Speaker 2: met Gala theme, but place, the actual place that you go. Yes, Ryan,

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Speaker 2: did you spend a lot of time.

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Speaker 1: At camp? Is that what you did in the summers

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Speaker 1: when you were coming out Jesus Camp seven summers in

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Speaker 1: a row. Baby, Oh my god, I didn't even think

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Speaker 1: about that, the fact that you would have gone. I

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Speaker 1: went to Jesus when we talked about the Jesus version

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Speaker 1: of it. Yes, yes, yes, I loved. Okay, So what's

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Speaker 1: your earliest memory of Jesus Camp. Well, okay, we had

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Speaker 1: before Jesus Camp, like sleep away camp, like proper sleep

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Speaker 1: away camp. We did have like a vacation Bible School,

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Speaker 1: which is kind of like a day camp for todd

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Speaker 1: for like, you know, babies, to like go and do

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Speaker 1: activities and play play with like the other church kids

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Speaker 1: and stuff like that. That I guess I kind of

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Speaker 1: enjoyed because it was something to do during the day,

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Speaker 1: and I liked my church friends, I think, but Jesus Camp,

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Speaker 1: like where you go and you sleep there for like

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Speaker 1: one or two or three weeks at a time, was

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Speaker 1: very cult like. And obviously that you don't say, I mean,

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Speaker 1: obviously it's because of Jesus, but also like, since we're

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Speaker 1: talking about it broadly, like summer camp does like kind

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Speaker 1: of function like a cult sometimes, Like you do kind

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Speaker 1: of enter this summer camp brain space that is different

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Speaker 1: from when you go back home, like it feels for

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Speaker 1: a different life for sure.

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Speaker 2: Well, you have your camp friends, you can sort of

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Speaker 2: reinvent yourself at camp. But then but then once you're

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Speaker 2: locked into a camp, then you are that person for

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Speaker 2: the duration.

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Speaker 1: Of your camp. Well, okay, what was your first summer camp?

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Speaker 1: Did you have to did you ever reinvent yourself?

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Speaker 2: So so, I you know, am part of a long

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Speaker 2: lineage of Jews who believe in packing their children off

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Speaker 2: to be taken care of by nineteen year olds from

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Speaker 2: Australia and New Zealand basically as soon as they're old

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Speaker 2: enough so that they can you know, like go on

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Speaker 2: summer vacations to Europe or like do whatever. So you know,

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Speaker 2: my mom and her brothers were sent off to a

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Speaker 2: sleep Boy camp as soon as they were old enough,

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Speaker 2: and I the same was done for my brother and I.

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Speaker 2: You know, you got to get the kids out of

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Speaker 2: the house during the summer and pay someone to take.

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Speaker 1: And wait, sorry, how long were you away? So okay.

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Speaker 2: I didn't start going to sleep Boy camp until I

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Speaker 2: was eleven, maybe ten or eleven.

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Speaker 1: You know.

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Speaker 2: Up until then, I would go to day camp I

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Speaker 2: went to. It was always sort of temple adjacent to

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Speaker 2: like a camp that was run out of the synagogue

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Speaker 2: that we went to, and then I went to a

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Speaker 2: theater camp that was also still a day camp. Then

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Speaker 2: there was one summer where we went to a camp

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Speaker 2: where you slept there during the week but you went

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Speaker 2: home on the weekends. And it was in the city

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Speaker 2: that I lived in, So that was sort of like

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Speaker 2: training wheels for Sleepway Camp. And then I went to

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Speaker 2: Sleepway Camp for the first time. I believe the summer

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Speaker 2: I was ten or eleven and my younger brother was

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Speaker 2: two years younger than me. We both went and that

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Speaker 2: was like also kind of training wheels for Sleepway Camp

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Speaker 2: because I think it was only a week or two long.

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Speaker 2: I don't remember much about that camp experience, except that

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Speaker 2: on the way back, I was flying back, because you know,

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Speaker 2: these camps are always somewhere in the Northeast. I think

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Speaker 2: this one was in Main And on the flight back,

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Speaker 2: for some reason, I got bumped up to first class,

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Speaker 2: so I was like ten or you're my oh god,

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Speaker 2: flying flying alone.

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Speaker 1: In first oil rotten in real time, getting spoiled rotten.

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Speaker 1: But I got sick from the food or something.

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Speaker 2: And this is a very this is a very vivid,

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Speaker 2: like core foundational building blocking memory for me.

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Speaker 1: So I got sick from the plane. I do remember

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Speaker 1: this like this.

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Speaker 2: The flight attendants were all very into me because it

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Speaker 2: was like such a novelty, this like kid alone in

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Speaker 2: first class. I'm sure I was like super faggy. And

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Speaker 2: then when I got home, it was the summer that

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Speaker 2: Harry Potter and The Chamber of Secrets came out, and

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Speaker 2: I had begged my parents to get it for me,

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Speaker 2: And when I got home, the book was waiting for

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Speaker 2: me on my bed, and all I wanted to do

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Speaker 2: was stay up all night and read it. But I

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Speaker 2: was deliriously ill from whatever had consumed on the plane,

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Speaker 2: so I slept for a full twenty four hours when

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Speaker 2: I got home and I came downstairs, you know, to

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Speaker 2: like for breakfast or whatever. When I finally was sick,

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Speaker 2: and my family was like, I can't believe what you

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Speaker 2: did last night. And I was like, what are you

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Speaker 2: talking about? They were like, you came downstairs. And so

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Speaker 2: this was the nineties, and you know, nineties were a

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Speaker 2: very water cooler culture, and we had a water cooler

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Speaker 2: in the kitchen.

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Speaker 1: You know that you with like this big water cooler

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Speaker 1: water for a water cooler culture in your own home

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Speaker 1: kitchen got over, yes, And they said that during the night,

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Speaker 1: while they were all sitting around having dinner, I had

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Speaker 1: come downstairs, walked up to the water cooler, pissed in

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Speaker 1: it as if it were a urinal, without saying a word,

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Speaker 1: and then gone back upstairs and gone back to sleep.

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Speaker 1: You were wait, were you sleepwalking? I was sleepwalking? I don't.

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Speaker 1: I haven't known memory of this. Well, how could you

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00:16:01,720 --> 00:16:05,880
Speaker 1: so accurately piss into a water cooler in your sleep?

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00:16:06,040 --> 00:16:11,400
Speaker 1: That's not possible. You were possessed. I was possessed by

264
00:16:12,240 --> 00:16:15,480
Speaker 1: I was much like much like Ginny Weasley and Harry

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Speaker 1: Potter and the Chamber of secrets. God, God, that's so weird. Rose,

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Speaker 1: you should be more so by that story. I know

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Speaker 1: it was. It's very that has it's it is giving hereditary,

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Speaker 1: and it's something that has haunted me throughout my entire life,

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Speaker 1: and like growing up, my my mom and my stepdad

270
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Speaker 1: and my brother would always joke about it, and I'd

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Speaker 1: get really pissed off, like because it was embarrassing because

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Speaker 1: I didn't remember it and it I was humiliated. So

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Speaker 1: that to me is like the beginning of my summer

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Speaker 1: camp journey and in many ways makes a lot of

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Speaker 1: sense considering some of the experiences I've had at variously. Question, So,

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Speaker 1: since you're sharing embarrassing stories, I will concede the fact

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Speaker 1: that I was a bed wetter probably until I was

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Speaker 1: almost like tennish. But I don't know. I don't think

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Speaker 1: I've ever pissed my pants at camp, like to my recollection,

280
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Speaker 1: I feel like I would viscerally remember that. But I

281
00:17:22,720 --> 00:17:25,280
Speaker 1: definitely had that fear every time I was in a

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Speaker 1: sort of slumber party situation. But honestly, my parents didn't

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Speaker 1: really let me do sleepovers because you know, parents like those.

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Speaker 1: I think there's a hard and fast rule with like

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Speaker 1: more conservative parents are more like issy parents that just

286
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Speaker 1: like they just don't do sleepovers, which is like bonkers

287
00:17:41,800 --> 00:17:45,720
Speaker 1: to me. But I will tell you that my version

288
00:17:45,800 --> 00:17:49,920
Speaker 1: of that story is I got pink I at Jesus Camp.

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Speaker 1: I think my first or second year and pinky Okay,

290
00:17:53,240 --> 00:17:56,720
Speaker 1: when you're at summer camp, first things, First, you got crushes. Okay,

291
00:17:57,320 --> 00:18:00,200
Speaker 1: you're telling everyone you got crushes on the girls. I

292
00:18:00,359 --> 00:18:03,679
Speaker 1: personally secretly have crushes on the boys. You are surrounded

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00:18:03,760 --> 00:18:08,479
Speaker 1: by puberty. You're surrounded by people that are more puba yes, yes, pubes,

294
00:18:08,520 --> 00:18:10,920
Speaker 1: people that are more pubescent than you like, and you

295
00:18:11,000 --> 00:18:13,800
Speaker 1: feel insecure about like who's grown and who's not. You

296
00:18:13,880 --> 00:18:16,200
Speaker 1: feel insecure about who's cool and who's not, Like what

297
00:18:16,359 --> 00:18:19,080
Speaker 1: movies they've seen that you've never heard of? Like I

298
00:18:19,160 --> 00:18:22,080
Speaker 1: had so much insecurity at camp because you're coalescing with

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Speaker 1: people that like aren't at your school, completely outside of

300
00:18:24,760 --> 00:18:29,240
Speaker 1: your you know wherewithal So when I got pink eye

301
00:18:29,760 --> 00:18:33,359
Speaker 1: and became this untouchable loser and everyone knew it, I

302
00:18:33,560 --> 00:18:36,600
Speaker 1: was like, oh my god, could I have a more

303
00:18:36,680 --> 00:18:40,280
Speaker 1: worse experience here at Jesus Camp. Everyone was like very

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00:18:40,359 --> 00:18:42,440
Speaker 1: gracious about it, Like no one really made fun of

305
00:18:42,520 --> 00:18:45,800
Speaker 1: it because you know, everyone loved Jesus, but like, it

306
00:18:45,960 --> 00:18:48,920
Speaker 1: was still nasty and I do have like it. It

307
00:18:49,080 --> 00:18:52,560
Speaker 1: is singed in my memory as an unpleasant camp experience,

308
00:18:53,600 --> 00:18:57,840
Speaker 1: but I loved summer camp. Loved I also loved summer camp.

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Speaker 1: I went to a camp that was okay. So there's

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Speaker 1: a a very well known theater camp called French Woods.

311
00:19:03,760 --> 00:19:06,640
Speaker 1: That's what the movie Camp is based off of, which

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00:19:06,720 --> 00:19:10,080
Speaker 1: is one of my favorite films Anna Kendrick, her best work,

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Speaker 1: She Is Fucked, I'm Ready, and the Goddamn Show Must Gone.

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Speaker 1: But we were sort of like a sister camp to

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Speaker 1: French Woods. So it was either sports or the arts,

316
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Speaker 1: which I guess are still kind of the only camp activity.

317
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Speaker 1: So it's not like we were special. But I was

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Speaker 1: the only quote unquote boy who was like into theater

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Speaker 1: only why not the only one, but I was the

320
00:19:33,040 --> 00:19:35,520
Speaker 1: most into theater, so I got the lee and rolls

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Speaker 1: in all that. I know that I knew that.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, so that was a big part of my camp experience.

323
00:19:40,760 --> 00:19:44,480
Speaker 2: But also I have another embarrassing story that has something

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Speaker 2: to do with evacuating your body. So I was I

325
00:19:51,800 --> 00:19:55,159
Speaker 2: have always been very pe shy when I used to

326
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Speaker 2: use bathrooms that had urinals in them.

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Speaker 1: I never pissed on someone during sex because you're p right, No,

328
00:20:01,200 --> 00:20:03,320
Speaker 1: I like to be pressed on. I don't like. I

329
00:20:03,480 --> 00:20:04,520
Speaker 1: still get very p shy.

330
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Speaker 2: So you know, back when I used to use bathrooms

331
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Speaker 2: i had urinals, I like hated being at a urinal

332
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Speaker 2: because I'm very p shy. I also in my childhood

333
00:20:14,320 --> 00:20:16,320
Speaker 2: was very poop shy and I did not want to

334
00:20:16,359 --> 00:20:18,879
Speaker 2: poop in public. So when I got to see you

335
00:20:18,920 --> 00:20:20,800
Speaker 2: were one of those, I didn't seven day.

336
00:20:22,560 --> 00:20:25,760
Speaker 1: I knew I didn't shy. I didn't ship for a

337
00:20:26,040 --> 00:20:29,040
Speaker 1: full for a full week. When I went to camp

338
00:20:29,119 --> 00:20:31,240
Speaker 1: and I had to be sent I had to be

339
00:20:31,760 --> 00:20:34,680
Speaker 1: sent to the click. I had to be sent to

340
00:20:34,760 --> 00:20:37,720
Speaker 1: the clinic because I had like the worst just stomach

341
00:20:37,800 --> 00:20:41,680
Speaker 1: ache ever. And the nurse took one look at me.

342
00:20:41,760 --> 00:20:43,760
Speaker 1: I was like, when was the last night? And I

343
00:20:43,880 --> 00:20:46,399
Speaker 1: was like, I was like at my grandma's house before

344
00:20:46,440 --> 00:20:49,399
Speaker 1: we got here, and she was like, she was like,

345
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Speaker 1: go in there and take a ship.

346
00:20:51,800 --> 00:20:54,240
Speaker 2: And I was like, can you like puun some music

347
00:20:54,400 --> 00:20:56,960
Speaker 2: or something or like walk go out in the ride,

348
00:20:57,080 --> 00:20:59,040
Speaker 2: and she did it did work.

349
00:20:59,080 --> 00:21:05,399
Speaker 1: I shot and I felt so much better and that

350
00:21:05,600 --> 00:21:08,320
Speaker 1: was the first step in me becoming comfortable with shitting

351
00:21:08,920 --> 00:21:12,920
Speaker 1: in public. In public such a funny and now I

352
00:21:13,000 --> 00:21:19,120
Speaker 1: sha all the time everywhere. I mean, I still don't

353
00:21:19,240 --> 00:21:24,000
Speaker 1: love to ship in like a crowded but you know

354
00:21:24,119 --> 00:21:26,800
Speaker 1: when you're in an audience, but I do it because

355
00:21:26,800 --> 00:21:29,600
Speaker 1: you know, it's what the people want when.

356
00:21:29,480 --> 00:21:34,159
Speaker 2: You're in a bunk with especially with teenage boys. Like

357
00:21:34,280 --> 00:21:37,040
Speaker 2: that's the thing at my my bunk at Sleepway Camp.

358
00:21:37,160 --> 00:21:39,880
Speaker 2: So it was like it wasn't so you know, you're

359
00:21:39,920 --> 00:21:42,600
Speaker 2: like grouped by bunk at camp, but our bunks were

360
00:21:42,680 --> 00:21:46,280
Speaker 2: like interconnected, so it was like four different bunk groupings.

361
00:21:46,359 --> 00:21:49,040
Speaker 2: Then we all shared one big bathroom in the middle,

362
00:21:49,440 --> 00:21:52,359
Speaker 2: so there there was always someone around listening to me

363
00:21:52,440 --> 00:21:55,560
Speaker 2: take a dumb and it made me very self conscious,

364
00:21:55,760 --> 00:21:58,639
Speaker 2: but you know it did help, is that especially that

365
00:21:58,760 --> 00:22:03,159
Speaker 2: first summer. The albums that went triple platinum and R

366
00:22:03,240 --> 00:22:09,400
Speaker 2: Bunk were Eminem's debut album That's Extremely Summer and Yes

367
00:22:10,000 --> 00:22:15,960
Speaker 2: and the south Park movie soundtrack, which I honestly I

368
00:22:16,119 --> 00:22:18,440
Speaker 2: love the south Park movie south Park, bigger, longer and

369
00:22:18,560 --> 00:22:21,840
Speaker 2: uncut scenes, and I was I was sitting on that

370
00:22:22,000 --> 00:22:25,840
Speaker 2: toilet singing blame Canada while I was trying to poop. No, okay,

371
00:22:25,920 --> 00:22:27,800
Speaker 2: the South Park, the South Park of it all is

372
00:22:27,840 --> 00:22:31,760
Speaker 2: emblematic of something that honestly, you know we're talking about

373
00:22:31,840 --> 00:22:34,600
Speaker 2: right here in summer camp culture, which is that boys

374
00:22:34,640 --> 00:22:36,119
Speaker 2: are disgusting.

375
00:22:36,840 --> 00:22:41,800
Speaker 1: South Park is disgusting just cater to like gross little boys.

376
00:22:42,119 --> 00:22:44,359
Speaker 1: And when you are at summer camp and you have

377
00:22:44,560 --> 00:22:47,719
Speaker 1: to get used to, you know, pissed ship, pee, pooh, far,

378
00:22:47,840 --> 00:22:53,160
Speaker 1: puke whatever, like, it's like they the kids they lean

379
00:22:53,240 --> 00:22:55,280
Speaker 1: into that, get the boys lean into that, and so

380
00:22:55,359 --> 00:22:57,040
Speaker 1: all of a sudden it's like he and pooh and

381
00:22:57,080 --> 00:22:59,560
Speaker 1: fart and puke jokes, and it's like, no, like this

382
00:22:59,760 --> 00:23:03,480
Speaker 1: is everyone's farting on each other, like you're spinning on people,

383
00:23:03,920 --> 00:23:08,480
Speaker 1: like gendered memories like happening in those like toxically masculine

384
00:23:08,520 --> 00:23:11,000
Speaker 1: spaces where I'm just like, I was like, this isn't

385
00:23:11,280 --> 00:23:14,399
Speaker 1: me dog, Like I don't understand, I don't belong here.

386
00:23:14,440 --> 00:23:19,360
Speaker 1: Get me out, not dog. Yeah, camp food also will

387
00:23:19,440 --> 00:23:21,680
Speaker 1: will stop you up. We have to say it.

388
00:23:22,160 --> 00:23:25,960
Speaker 2: Yes, there was one summer where I only ate jello

389
00:23:27,000 --> 00:23:32,240
Speaker 2: from from the cafeteria, and I mean I was having

390
00:23:32,320 --> 00:23:33,359
Speaker 2: some very liquidy shits.

391
00:23:33,680 --> 00:23:34,040
Speaker 1: It was.

392
00:23:34,119 --> 00:23:37,639
Speaker 2: It also like blue, like I don't, I don't recall,

393
00:23:39,000 --> 00:23:40,639
Speaker 2: but that was also the summer that I had my

394
00:23:40,720 --> 00:23:46,359
Speaker 2: first girlfriend, whose name I believe was Christine Christine, And

395
00:23:46,480 --> 00:23:49,440
Speaker 2: it was also the summer that I that It was

396
00:23:49,480 --> 00:23:52,000
Speaker 2: also the summer that I sucked my first dude.

397
00:23:52,040 --> 00:23:55,199
Speaker 1: Oh wow, two for one? Wait Christine? How long did

398
00:23:55,240 --> 00:23:57,880
Speaker 1: that relate and ate pussy for the first time? Oh

399
00:23:58,359 --> 00:23:59,359
Speaker 1: my god? Wait you did?

400
00:23:59,560 --> 00:24:03,240
Speaker 2: I had all my first sexual experiences your most bisexual summer?

401
00:24:04,160 --> 00:24:06,960
Speaker 2: How How long did Christine the summer I turned pretty

402
00:24:06,960 --> 00:24:09,119
Speaker 2: How long did wait? Is that that's a movie, right,

403
00:24:09,320 --> 00:24:12,480
Speaker 2: it's a TV show? And okay, what was how long

404
00:24:12,600 --> 00:24:15,920
Speaker 2: did your relationship with Christine last? I believe it was

405
00:24:16,000 --> 00:24:18,480
Speaker 2: fairly long by camp standards, so I'm gonna say like

406
00:24:19,320 --> 00:24:20,000
Speaker 2: six EPs.

407
00:24:20,680 --> 00:24:23,640
Speaker 1: Okay. I had a crush I think my second year

408
00:24:23,760 --> 00:24:26,399
Speaker 1: at summer camp on a girl named Ashley, who I

409
00:24:26,560 --> 00:24:30,040
Speaker 1: did really fall for and I tried. She lived in Michigan,

410
00:24:30,400 --> 00:24:35,320
Speaker 1: but I my parents, our parents, respected parents, facilitated us

411
00:24:35,560 --> 00:24:38,800
Speaker 1: meeting after camp, Like we met up in Michigan so

412
00:24:38,880 --> 00:24:43,119
Speaker 1: we could go on this like chaperone date for like

413
00:24:43,400 --> 00:24:47,480
Speaker 1: like me and my long distance like camp crush. Isn't

414
00:24:47,480 --> 00:24:49,360
Speaker 1: that wild? Like, I don't know if I would ever

415
00:24:49,520 --> 00:24:53,119
Speaker 1: do that. Seeing camp friends outside of camp isn't it

416
00:24:53,240 --> 00:24:56,240
Speaker 1: was so it's wrong. It's like it's like honestly, like

417
00:24:56,720 --> 00:24:59,359
Speaker 1: you know, like you're at in Order Forbid. It's like

418
00:24:59,520 --> 00:25:01,840
Speaker 1: you're at an orgy and they turn on the fluorescent lighting.

419
00:25:01,920 --> 00:25:05,439
Speaker 1: It's like, so not like you because you're.

420
00:25:05,320 --> 00:25:08,399
Speaker 2: A different person at camp than you are in real life,

421
00:25:08,560 --> 00:25:11,159
Speaker 2: and like the two are not supposed to miss. And

422
00:25:11,240 --> 00:25:14,360
Speaker 2: if there's any time I've seen camp people outside of camp,

423
00:25:14,400 --> 00:25:19,280
Speaker 2: and it's happened very rarely, it's felt so weird and wrong.

424
00:25:41,359 --> 00:25:45,160
Speaker 2: Something that's very powerful about camp is that you never

425
00:25:45,520 --> 00:25:47,760
Speaker 2: think about your parents, like or at least I didn't

426
00:25:47,840 --> 00:25:49,679
Speaker 2: like parents being gone.

427
00:25:52,200 --> 00:25:54,600
Speaker 1: I really just not me. I like, oh, okay, you

428
00:25:54,680 --> 00:25:55,400
Speaker 1: missed mom and dad.

429
00:25:55,680 --> 00:25:59,320
Speaker 2: Yeah, so at my So the proper Sleepway camp that

430
00:25:59,400 --> 00:26:03,159
Speaker 2: I went to, you're not allowed to call home for

431
00:26:03,240 --> 00:26:07,639
Speaker 2: the first seven days because they know that if you do,

432
00:26:08,000 --> 00:26:10,679
Speaker 2: you'll be like I want to come home, So they

433
00:26:11,600 --> 00:26:14,640
Speaker 2: force you to. They forced it to do no contact

434
00:26:14,720 --> 00:26:20,040
Speaker 2: for the first seven days, and I was miserable. I

435
00:26:20,320 --> 00:26:23,719
Speaker 2: wanted to get the fuck out of there. Also because

436
00:26:23,800 --> 00:26:27,320
Speaker 2: so I went to camp in the Poconos in Pennsylvania,

437
00:26:27,680 --> 00:26:30,840
Speaker 2: and you know, I grew up in Florida. So before camp,

438
00:26:30,920 --> 00:26:33,280
Speaker 2: we would go up to Long Island and stay with

439
00:26:33,359 --> 00:26:35,240
Speaker 2: my grandma and grandpa for like a week or two,

440
00:26:35,680 --> 00:26:36,159
Speaker 2: and then we.

441
00:26:36,160 --> 00:26:37,919
Speaker 1: Would go to camp. So by the time I got

442
00:26:37,920 --> 00:26:39,680
Speaker 1: to camp, I had it had already been a long

443
00:26:39,760 --> 00:26:42,320
Speaker 1: time since I had seen my mom, and I missed her.

444
00:26:43,160 --> 00:26:46,160
Speaker 2: So much, and she was so happy I was gone,

445
00:26:46,400 --> 00:26:49,760
Speaker 2: so I was. It was I was very sad. But

446
00:26:50,200 --> 00:26:53,200
Speaker 2: and what also made me upset was that such a

447
00:26:53,320 --> 00:26:55,880
Speaker 2: huge part of camp, especially when we were going to camp,

448
00:26:55,960 --> 00:26:58,960
Speaker 2: you know in the late nineties early two thousands, was

449
00:26:59,080 --> 00:27:03,200
Speaker 2: receiving mail and getting letters and care packages from your parents.

450
00:27:03,840 --> 00:27:05,480
Speaker 2: And let me tell you one thing my mom was

451
00:27:05,560 --> 00:27:07,560
Speaker 2: not doing during the summer when her kids were a

452
00:27:07,640 --> 00:27:09,720
Speaker 2: camp was putting together care packages.

453
00:27:09,800 --> 00:27:12,960
Speaker 1: She did not give a ship. Oh, my parents would

454
00:27:12,960 --> 00:27:15,000
Speaker 1: do care packages, but that's because they missed me. And

455
00:27:15,119 --> 00:27:21,159
Speaker 1: I what would you get in them? Yeah, blube com.

456
00:27:22,480 --> 00:27:24,440
Speaker 1: You like, you're like write your mom. You're like, hey,

457
00:27:24,600 --> 00:27:28,720
Speaker 1: next time, can you send me the one from from Yeah?

458
00:27:29,080 --> 00:27:36,320
Speaker 1: You're like, next time, can you get the like artisanal poppers? I? Yeah, no, right,

459
00:27:36,640 --> 00:27:38,520
Speaker 1: I feel I don't know. I would get like peanut

460
00:27:38,520 --> 00:27:40,280
Speaker 1: em and m's I think I got. I would get

461
00:27:40,320 --> 00:27:43,560
Speaker 1: like a book. You I think it was like stocked

462
00:27:43,600 --> 00:27:48,719
Speaker 1: with stuff from the camp store. But oh the com

463
00:27:49,160 --> 00:27:52,760
Speaker 1: or the commissary or like whatever it's called, the gummy candies,

464
00:27:52,800 --> 00:27:55,720
Speaker 1: the chocolate bars. H commissary was it. And they also

465
00:27:55,720 --> 00:27:57,679
Speaker 1: would merch that you could buy you did. I think

466
00:27:57,720 --> 00:28:00,359
Speaker 1: they had like store credits that your parents. It's so merch.

467
00:28:00,480 --> 00:28:04,040
Speaker 1: It's just like I don't think it's like they're selling.

468
00:28:04,600 --> 00:28:08,240
Speaker 1: It's not like they're selling chromatica jobs. They were at

469
00:28:08,280 --> 00:28:12,200
Speaker 1: my Jesus camp. But unlike you, I never got homesick, okay,

470
00:28:12,720 --> 00:28:14,639
Speaker 1: hated going home and my parents picked me up. I

471
00:28:14,800 --> 00:28:17,440
Speaker 1: was devastated. I did not want to leave. The only

472
00:28:17,560 --> 00:28:20,240
Speaker 1: time I ever ever longed for home, which did not

473
00:28:20,320 --> 00:28:22,680
Speaker 1: long for my parents long for home, was when I

474
00:28:22,800 --> 00:28:28,720
Speaker 1: was at Boy quote unquote Scouts camp. Boy Scouts Camp was,

475
00:28:29,040 --> 00:28:31,200
Speaker 1: which was how old were you I was? I don't know,

476
00:28:31,560 --> 00:28:33,800
Speaker 1: like I was a tween maybe so I was probably

477
00:28:33,880 --> 00:28:37,760
Speaker 1: like eleven or twelve, like you know, waking up in

478
00:28:37,960 --> 00:28:41,280
Speaker 1: like a wet tent on the floor on a tarp

479
00:28:41,480 --> 00:28:45,200
Speaker 1: and like stinky boys eating gross chili mac and being

480
00:28:45,280 --> 00:28:49,040
Speaker 1: disgusting doing disgusting things like shitting at holes and drinking

481
00:28:49,200 --> 00:28:52,560
Speaker 1: ketchup from the bottle like like because they're daring each other.

482
00:28:52,760 --> 00:28:56,840
Speaker 2: Like way the things that boys do with food are

483
00:28:57,040 --> 00:29:04,200
Speaker 2: so disgusting. Teenage, teenage and especially like pubescent boys are

484
00:29:05,040 --> 00:29:06,520
Speaker 2: the literal worst people in the world.

485
00:29:06,640 --> 00:29:08,880
Speaker 1: Yeah they are. Just having been one of them, I

486
00:29:09,480 --> 00:29:12,880
Speaker 1: can say that when I like surrounded by those disgusting

487
00:29:12,960 --> 00:29:15,600
Speaker 1: boys like I actually very vividly remember going to like

488
00:29:15,680 --> 00:29:17,800
Speaker 1: some sort of ski camp and like Austin and Bradley

489
00:29:17,840 --> 00:29:19,360
Speaker 1: called me a fagot and I was like, and I

490
00:29:19,440 --> 00:29:23,280
Speaker 1: was like, shut up you like literally like drink barbecue sauce,

491
00:29:23,400 --> 00:29:28,280
Speaker 1: like you're disgusting. Who's the real fag real fag here?

492
00:29:28,640 --> 00:29:31,280
Speaker 1: But like in that moment, I wasn't like sick for home.

493
00:29:31,400 --> 00:29:32,960
Speaker 1: I was like eleven years old, and I was like,

494
00:29:33,040 --> 00:29:35,680
Speaker 1: I need to be in a hotel, like I cannot

495
00:29:36,200 --> 00:29:38,360
Speaker 1: be here. I need to be comfortable.

496
00:29:38,520 --> 00:29:42,600
Speaker 2: You're such a fucking taurus. Did you do Did you

497
00:29:42,680 --> 00:29:44,040
Speaker 2: do color war at camp?

498
00:29:44,200 --> 00:29:46,200
Speaker 1: Is that where you like would fling like you know,

499
00:29:46,760 --> 00:29:49,920
Speaker 1: colored powder or like like paint balloons or something or

500
00:29:49,960 --> 00:29:55,120
Speaker 1: what I remember? But color war colors like a race war.

501
00:29:55,240 --> 00:29:59,160
Speaker 1: Phoebe said, the camp color wally, and there are you know,

502
00:29:59,440 --> 00:30:02,840
Speaker 1: a hundred white, I mean, and three people of helm.

503
00:30:03,160 --> 00:30:06,720
Speaker 1: Kind of it's like a it's like a week long

504
00:30:07,200 --> 00:30:10,480
Speaker 1: camp wide thing where one half of camp is one color,

505
00:30:10,640 --> 00:30:12,120
Speaker 1: one half of camp is another color.

506
00:30:12,160 --> 00:30:16,280
Speaker 2: It's usually red and blue is the number of It

507
00:30:16,440 --> 00:30:19,160
Speaker 2: is a race war, and there's a number of competitions

508
00:30:19,240 --> 00:30:23,160
Speaker 2: throughout the week, and one color wins at the end.

509
00:30:23,320 --> 00:30:25,360
Speaker 2: So the camp I went to was split up into

510
00:30:25,840 --> 00:30:29,320
Speaker 2: sessions throughout the summer, so there was like the early session,

511
00:30:29,360 --> 00:30:31,840
Speaker 2: the middle session, the late session. My brother and I

512
00:30:31,880 --> 00:30:34,280
Speaker 2: always went there for the early sessions because school in

513
00:30:34,360 --> 00:30:37,040
Speaker 2: Florida let out earlier, but then we went back to

514
00:30:37,160 --> 00:30:40,520
Speaker 2: school earlier, so we went back to school like mid August.

515
00:30:41,000 --> 00:30:42,719
Speaker 2: The kids who were in the Northeast didn't go back

516
00:30:42,760 --> 00:30:46,680
Speaker 2: to school until after Labor Day, so they would always

517
00:30:46,760 --> 00:30:50,400
Speaker 2: be there for the third session, and color War always

518
00:30:50,520 --> 00:30:53,479
Speaker 2: happened during the third session, except for my last year

519
00:30:53,520 --> 00:30:56,800
Speaker 2: at camp, which honestly was the year before my freshman

520
00:30:56,840 --> 00:30:58,480
Speaker 2: year of high school. I was a little too old

521
00:30:58,520 --> 00:31:00,400
Speaker 2: to be here there. I was a little too old

522
00:31:00,440 --> 00:31:02,320
Speaker 2: for camp that year, and I really hated it. But

523
00:31:02,440 --> 00:31:04,600
Speaker 2: that was the summer where all the suckingd fucking happened.

524
00:31:05,120 --> 00:31:06,600
Speaker 2: But that was the summer that I got to do

525
00:31:06,720 --> 00:31:09,960
Speaker 2: Color War and I was blue and my color lost.

526
00:31:10,640 --> 00:31:13,480
Speaker 2: And when I tell you, I have never been more

527
00:31:13,560 --> 00:31:16,840
Speaker 2: devastated in my life than when we lost Color War.

528
00:31:17,200 --> 00:31:21,200
Speaker 2: And I didn't participate in a single activity. I am

529
00:31:21,320 --> 00:31:24,880
Speaker 2: not an outdoor girl in that way. I'm not doing

530
00:31:24,960 --> 00:31:27,600
Speaker 2: the three legged race, I'm not hopping in a potato sock.

531
00:31:28,080 --> 00:31:33,200
Speaker 2: I'm not doing like a baton relay race. I couldn't

532
00:31:33,240 --> 00:31:38,880
Speaker 2: give a shit. But when we lost Color War, I sobbed.

533
00:31:39,840 --> 00:31:45,560
Speaker 1: I subbed, Babetta, get like my mom died. I gotta

534
00:31:45,640 --> 00:31:49,040
Speaker 1: get a grip, my god, I do we Okay? So

535
00:31:49,160 --> 00:31:52,640
Speaker 1: our camp definitely had a kind of a kind of

536
00:31:52,880 --> 00:31:57,280
Speaker 1: camp wide game. We're in the respective cabins were pit

537
00:31:57,360 --> 00:32:00,320
Speaker 1: against each other like each cabin is a team, and

538
00:32:00,440 --> 00:32:02,320
Speaker 1: everyone had to do something something throughout the week. I

539
00:32:02,320 --> 00:32:05,000
Speaker 1: don't even remember what the object object was, which is

540
00:32:05,040 --> 00:32:08,000
Speaker 1: how little I cared. But on that note, uh, just

541
00:32:08,200 --> 00:32:11,000
Speaker 1: another reason why camp is just not really my thing,

542
00:32:11,280 --> 00:32:15,640
Speaker 1: especially when it comes to boys. Camp is I Since

543
00:32:15,680 --> 00:32:19,200
Speaker 1: I was a teeny tiny baby and now as a

544
00:32:19,240 --> 00:32:23,480
Speaker 1: full fledged adults remains to be true. I absolutely despise

545
00:32:24,080 --> 00:32:27,520
Speaker 1: manual labor of any kind. I will not do it

546
00:32:27,800 --> 00:32:30,560
Speaker 1: unless I absolutely have to labor. No, yeah, I'm all

547
00:32:30,560 --> 00:32:34,040
Speaker 1: about that. Will manual labor. Okay, I'm not tranual labor.

548
00:32:34,160 --> 00:32:37,880
Speaker 1: That's so funny. Emual labor. Yeah, that's all I was

549
00:32:37,960 --> 00:32:39,600
Speaker 1: trying to do. I was like, look out for that

550
00:32:39,760 --> 00:32:43,840
Speaker 1: podcast coming next year. To that to the outspoken me

551
00:32:43,960 --> 00:32:48,880
Speaker 1: and Jonathan Vndes, No, I'm just kidding. No, Jonathan is transit,

552
00:32:51,000 --> 00:32:54,840
Speaker 1: but yeah, I I am really just There's so many

553
00:32:54,920 --> 00:32:57,560
Speaker 1: things that I loved about summer Camp, primarily just not

554
00:32:57,760 --> 00:33:00,800
Speaker 1: being around my parents for two three weeks, but and

555
00:33:00,920 --> 00:33:03,560
Speaker 1: I also loved, you know, autonomy. I loved like being

556
00:33:03,680 --> 00:33:07,560
Speaker 1: able to like build friendships like outside of the context

557
00:33:07,640 --> 00:33:10,200
Speaker 1: of your own life, as we've talked about. But something

558
00:33:10,280 --> 00:33:12,840
Speaker 1: that Phoebe has said in the chat that I think

559
00:33:12,960 --> 00:33:15,680
Speaker 1: is a very lesbian contribution to this conversation is that

560
00:33:16,320 --> 00:33:20,560
Speaker 1: parent Trap was extremely formative of my kind of like

561
00:33:21,080 --> 00:33:25,720
Speaker 1: view on summer Camp. Like the summer camp in the

562
00:33:25,880 --> 00:33:30,880
Speaker 1: movie is so idyllic and like fun and creative and

563
00:33:31,480 --> 00:33:35,800
Speaker 1: naughty troublemakery, like you aspire to be as cool and

564
00:33:35,960 --> 00:33:38,960
Speaker 1: like like as a rich a narrative as like those kids,

565
00:33:39,280 --> 00:33:42,239
Speaker 1: and I really did fulfill that like ore and rich.

566
00:33:42,360 --> 00:33:44,280
Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, yeah, let's let's say that like those kids

567
00:33:44,360 --> 00:33:47,520
Speaker 1: were rich, But no, I really did, like you have

568
00:33:47,720 --> 00:33:49,920
Speaker 1: to be to be being sent to these camps, Like

569
00:33:50,000 --> 00:33:52,440
Speaker 1: they cost a lot of money. OURK summer camps had

570
00:33:52,560 --> 00:33:57,320
Speaker 1: like scholarships where you would get like stipends to like

571
00:33:57,440 --> 00:33:59,240
Speaker 1: offset the cost of your like tuition.

572
00:33:59,800 --> 00:34:02,560
Speaker 2: But if I if I remember correctly, yeah, I actually

573
00:34:02,560 --> 00:34:05,800
Speaker 2: think it costs like I think probably like a thousand

574
00:34:05,920 --> 00:34:11,200
Speaker 2: dollars or something like that for me to go. I

575
00:34:11,280 --> 00:34:13,400
Speaker 2: think it was at least a thousand dollars. I actually

576
00:34:13,480 --> 00:34:15,319
Speaker 2: need to check in. I actually don't know how much

577
00:34:15,520 --> 00:34:18,319
Speaker 2: how much it was, but I don't know. I did

578
00:34:18,400 --> 00:34:19,800
Speaker 2: you do you like parent Trap?

579
00:34:20,160 --> 00:34:21,880
Speaker 1: Are you? Are you a parent Trap stand? Because I

580
00:34:22,000 --> 00:34:26,440
Speaker 1: love the of course I feel like Meredith Blake, right,

581
00:34:27,040 --> 00:34:31,880
Speaker 1: I mean, Meredith Blake is definitely formative cultural like figure

582
00:34:32,080 --> 00:34:35,560
Speaker 1: like the evil femmes that I would latch onto. Meredith

583
00:34:36,040 --> 00:34:42,040
Speaker 1: invented athletes. I feel like the parent Trap was unfortunately

584
00:34:42,239 --> 00:34:47,160
Speaker 1: a very millennial thing, like it's like everyone yeah, like

585
00:34:47,200 --> 00:34:50,959
Speaker 1: BuzzFeed culture like loves the Parent Trap, like the Parent Traps.

586
00:34:51,360 --> 00:34:55,399
Speaker 1: They'll they'll never stop talking about it. It's like it's

587
00:34:55,440 --> 00:34:58,439
Speaker 1: the only movie that came out in the in the nineties. Yeah,

588
00:34:59,760 --> 00:35:00,799
Speaker 1: that in Napoleone. So so.

589
00:35:02,600 --> 00:35:05,319
Speaker 2: I don't know about you, but you know, as I said,

590
00:35:06,560 --> 00:35:09,520
Speaker 2: theater was the thing that I did at camp.

591
00:35:09,880 --> 00:35:12,399
Speaker 1: You know, that's that was my reason for being there.

592
00:35:13,200 --> 00:35:17,120
Speaker 1: All the world of stage. Honey, hand me a microphone.

593
00:35:17,520 --> 00:35:20,760
Speaker 1: And as I said, I starred in almost every production

594
00:35:21,200 --> 00:35:23,239
Speaker 1: that we did during my time there. I was in

595
00:35:23,360 --> 00:35:26,200
Speaker 1: Annie Get Your Gun. I was in Newsy's.

596
00:35:26,280 --> 00:35:28,719
Speaker 2: We did a production of Newsies long before it was

597
00:35:28,800 --> 00:35:30,320
Speaker 2: made into a Broadway show, so it was like not

598
00:35:30,520 --> 00:35:32,560
Speaker 2: very normal to do Newsies as a stage show.

599
00:35:32,760 --> 00:35:35,080
Speaker 1: I mean, we can believe this, But would you like

600
00:35:35,160 --> 00:35:38,480
Speaker 1: to share who you played at any of these respective Yeah?

601
00:35:38,600 --> 00:35:41,000
Speaker 2: I was Frank in Newsy I mean I was Frank

602
00:35:41,040 --> 00:35:42,879
Speaker 2: and any Get Your Gun, which is the male lead.

603
00:35:43,040 --> 00:35:45,200
Speaker 1: I did you know anything you can do? I can

604
00:35:45,280 --> 00:35:45,640
Speaker 1: do better?

605
00:35:45,800 --> 00:35:47,840
Speaker 2: And of course all of these shows I wanted to

606
00:35:47,920 --> 00:35:51,120
Speaker 2: play the I wanted to be Annie. And like it's

607
00:35:51,200 --> 00:35:54,720
Speaker 2: the thing is there was still gender bending that happened

608
00:35:54,800 --> 00:35:58,280
Speaker 2: because when I was in Newsi's the Christian Bale character

609
00:35:58,640 --> 00:36:01,960
Speaker 2: was played by a little because there were not enough

610
00:36:02,040 --> 00:36:05,080
Speaker 2: boys who wanted to do a theater, so they were

611
00:36:05,239 --> 00:36:07,799
Speaker 2: casting It's like, you know, it's like very peter Pan.

612
00:36:10,239 --> 00:36:13,920
Speaker 1: This. They cast this like like androgynous young.

613
00:36:14,160 --> 00:36:19,360
Speaker 2: Female Williams in Yeah, I went to camp with Alison Williams.

614
00:36:19,480 --> 00:36:23,399
Speaker 2: But yeah, I like I was such in my mind,

615
00:36:23,560 --> 00:36:26,640
Speaker 2: I was such hot shit. But like the whole half

616
00:36:26,719 --> 00:36:30,040
Speaker 2: of the camp that like didn't do anything, you know, theatrical,

617
00:36:30,840 --> 00:36:32,120
Speaker 2: like thought we were all losers.

618
00:36:32,120 --> 00:36:34,600
Speaker 1: Which would you say on a metric of quality and

619
00:36:35,000 --> 00:36:37,680
Speaker 1: your critical eye was the best production you did?

620
00:36:38,800 --> 00:36:42,200
Speaker 2: And why probably any gets your gun because there weren't

621
00:36:42,200 --> 00:36:44,680
Speaker 2: as many fucking like toddlers in it as there were

622
00:36:44,760 --> 00:36:46,840
Speaker 2: in Yeazies because we had to fill out the cast.

623
00:36:47,040 --> 00:36:47,239
Speaker 1: Yeah.

624
00:36:47,600 --> 00:36:50,440
Speaker 2: And then my last year at camp, when I was

625
00:36:50,640 --> 00:36:52,759
Speaker 2: I had gotten you know, too old, I was like,

626
00:36:52,840 --> 00:36:55,200
Speaker 2: I'm not doing theater this year because I'm better than this,

627
00:36:55,360 --> 00:36:58,000
Speaker 2: because I'm going you know, I was like going to

628
00:36:58,120 --> 00:37:00,400
Speaker 2: an art school that fall, and I was like, fuck this,

629
00:37:00,520 --> 00:37:02,799
Speaker 2: I'm just gonna like listen to my.

630
00:37:02,840 --> 00:37:08,360
Speaker 1: Walk and smoke weed, smoke me hold my ship, smoke weed,

631
00:37:08,920 --> 00:37:11,479
Speaker 1: suck my first dick, fall in love with my best

632
00:37:11,520 --> 00:37:14,239
Speaker 1: friend and go figure skating, because that's something we got

633
00:37:14,280 --> 00:37:16,839
Speaker 1: to do. At my camp, they had, you know, your day,

634
00:37:16,880 --> 00:37:18,960
Speaker 1: split them into activities, and you have to sign up

635
00:37:19,000 --> 00:37:21,279
Speaker 1: for activities every day. And one of the things we

636
00:37:21,360 --> 00:37:25,280
Speaker 1: could do was take the camp vans to the local

637
00:37:25,400 --> 00:37:28,800
Speaker 1: ice skating rink and you could either do figure skating

638
00:37:29,320 --> 00:37:31,000
Speaker 1: or ice hockey. Do you want to guess which one

639
00:37:31,040 --> 00:37:35,959
Speaker 1: they did? Probably figure skating. I'm gonna guess trick question.

640
00:37:36,160 --> 00:37:42,760
Speaker 1: I did both. I did both. Wait, wait, figure skating

641
00:37:42,800 --> 00:37:44,960
Speaker 1: doesn't seem like something you would like. Were you good

642
00:37:44,960 --> 00:37:47,440
Speaker 1: at it? I love figure skating.

643
00:37:47,440 --> 00:37:49,680
Speaker 2: I was not good at it, but I was, you know,

644
00:37:50,320 --> 00:37:53,880
Speaker 2: I was like twirling while Drops of Jubiter was playing

645
00:37:53,960 --> 00:37:55,000
Speaker 2: over the sound system.

646
00:37:55,160 --> 00:37:57,680
Speaker 1: Oh my god, not Drops of Jubiter. They were doing

647
00:37:58,280 --> 00:38:02,600
Speaker 1: what's that Aerosmith song? I don't want to miss thing?

648
00:38:03,200 --> 00:38:07,839
Speaker 1: Remember we I didn't. I hated sports of any kind,

649
00:38:07,960 --> 00:38:10,480
Speaker 1: so but yeah, I don't know what like summer camp

650
00:38:10,560 --> 00:38:14,720
Speaker 1: they just they kind of Summer camps are like extremely gendered,

651
00:38:14,800 --> 00:38:19,120
Speaker 1: but also I fear like two genderless, Like they really

652
00:38:19,200 --> 00:38:21,640
Speaker 1: try and mesh boys and girls in like games of

653
00:38:21,760 --> 00:38:25,280
Speaker 1: sports and like relay races and like high ropes courses,

654
00:38:25,320 --> 00:38:28,680
Speaker 1: and it's like, actually, no, like we should be segregating

655
00:38:28,760 --> 00:38:31,640
Speaker 1: genders and the girls should just do arts and I

656
00:38:31,800 --> 00:38:35,520
Speaker 1: should be a girl like I. I do not want

657
00:38:35,600 --> 00:38:37,880
Speaker 1: to do the high rope scores. I don't want to

658
00:38:37,960 --> 00:38:39,880
Speaker 1: do the sports. I don't want to do the manual

659
00:38:39,960 --> 00:38:44,719
Speaker 1: labor like just like like shelter me, treat me like

660
00:38:45,440 --> 00:38:50,640
Speaker 1: a fragile, little, you know, porcelain doll and never let

661
00:38:50,719 --> 00:38:52,280
Speaker 1: me be in danger.

662
00:38:52,680 --> 00:38:56,359
Speaker 2: Sorry, no, I I agree, but a slight but from

663
00:38:56,400 --> 00:38:59,120
Speaker 2: a slightly different angle. Because I was a fat kid obviously,

664
00:38:59,280 --> 00:39:02,879
Speaker 2: so I hated playing sports. I was really bad at them.

665
00:39:03,640 --> 00:39:06,719
Speaker 2: I was not I was an indoor kid, so I

666
00:39:06,840 --> 00:39:11,040
Speaker 2: was always somewhere reading and or doing theater, or like

667
00:39:11,239 --> 00:39:13,680
Speaker 2: at the Arts and Crafts building doing arts and crafts.

668
00:39:13,840 --> 00:39:17,640
Speaker 2: I did not want to play sports, except when I

669
00:39:17,719 --> 00:39:19,480
Speaker 2: was doing ice hockey and I was actually d.

670
00:39:19,480 --> 00:39:23,160
Speaker 1: Okay wait, I have no oh my god, the most

671
00:39:23,560 --> 00:39:28,600
Speaker 1: visceral childhood slash teenage memories have like come back to

672
00:39:28,680 --> 00:39:32,200
Speaker 1: me of probably my best year at Jesus Camp, wherein

673
00:39:32,400 --> 00:39:34,920
Speaker 1: I did date that girl or try to date that girl, Ashley,

674
00:39:34,960 --> 00:39:37,640
Speaker 1: and I was also madly in love with my best

675
00:39:37,680 --> 00:39:42,960
Speaker 1: camp friend named Luke, who we were both so viciously closeted.

676
00:39:43,400 --> 00:39:48,080
Speaker 1: He had bleach blonde hair and a mere apostle, plaid

677
00:39:48,640 --> 00:39:52,080
Speaker 1: shorts and like you know those like canvas leather thongs,

678
00:39:52,160 --> 00:39:55,680
Speaker 1: like pleather thongs, I mean for the the ones that

679
00:39:55,800 --> 00:39:58,760
Speaker 1: I was wearing in that. Yeah, honey, he was dressed.

680
00:40:00,040 --> 00:40:04,359
Speaker 1: Oh my god, I hate that. I love it at

681
00:40:04,400 --> 00:40:08,840
Speaker 1: summer camp. Okay, but I was going to ask you

682
00:40:09,160 --> 00:40:11,920
Speaker 1: a question that would lead into my story. Did you

683
00:40:11,960 --> 00:40:16,640
Speaker 1: get naked in the locker rooms? Was their nudity? No?

684
00:40:16,920 --> 00:40:20,640
Speaker 2: It was always like covering myself with a towel, changing,

685
00:40:21,320 --> 00:40:22,560
Speaker 2: changing in the shower stuff.

686
00:40:23,360 --> 00:40:27,560
Speaker 1: The girls, other boys, the other girls, thanks for driving

687
00:40:28,360 --> 00:40:31,719
Speaker 1: the other other boys they were oh no, they were

688
00:40:31,760 --> 00:40:36,279
Speaker 1: walking around like fucking they didn't care. It was like, well,

689
00:40:36,320 --> 00:40:38,200
Speaker 1: it was you know this thing that teen boys do

690
00:40:38,280 --> 00:40:41,399
Speaker 1: where it's like it's engaged. You know, they're engaging. They're

691
00:40:41,440 --> 00:40:44,160
Speaker 1: engaging in the most home erootic behavior, but like with

692
00:40:44,280 --> 00:40:47,440
Speaker 1: the most no homes. And it's honestly like the kids

693
00:40:47,520 --> 00:40:49,839
Speaker 1: that were like grew up Christian had so much shame

694
00:40:49,920 --> 00:40:52,400
Speaker 1: that we just like had our tidies, tidy whities, on

695
00:40:52,640 --> 00:40:56,919
Speaker 1: for dear life and like not showering the entire week,

696
00:40:56,960 --> 00:40:59,160
Speaker 1: because like that was like the most terrifying thing I

697
00:40:59,160 --> 00:41:02,239
Speaker 1: could possibly in front of someone, like being naked. But

698
00:41:02,880 --> 00:41:06,920
Speaker 1: to your point, all these other little everywhere, all these

699
00:41:06,960 --> 00:41:09,440
Speaker 1: other little boys were like love to be naked, and

700
00:41:09,560 --> 00:41:12,120
Speaker 1: we're totally comfortable with it. And I remember enving them

701
00:41:12,160 --> 00:41:14,840
Speaker 1: and being like why, Like why am I so afraid

702
00:41:14,920 --> 00:41:20,480
Speaker 1: to be nude? But I rose seeing my crushes penises

703
00:41:20,840 --> 00:41:24,439
Speaker 1: in this shower and like the feeling that that has

704
00:41:24,600 --> 00:41:26,840
Speaker 1: it's like pool party. It's like pool party trauma, Like

705
00:41:27,200 --> 00:41:31,000
Speaker 1: it's so there's so much shame. But also I was

706
00:41:31,239 --> 00:41:35,160
Speaker 1: so confused about what I was feeling, and like we

707
00:41:35,320 --> 00:41:36,920
Speaker 1: were and the two of us, me and Luke were

708
00:41:36,960 --> 00:41:39,399
Speaker 1: like so in the closet and so clearly into each

709
00:41:39,400 --> 00:41:43,719
Speaker 1: other because we're spending every minute together and yet and

710
00:41:44,000 --> 00:41:46,479
Speaker 1: I remember them being like they were like, why don't

711
00:41:46,480 --> 00:41:48,160
Speaker 1: you get naked too? And I'm like, what the the

712
00:41:48,280 --> 00:41:52,680
Speaker 1: homosociality of summer camp in general? Like what is that?

713
00:41:52,880 --> 00:41:55,279
Speaker 1: It's so confusing? I don't know.

714
00:41:55,360 --> 00:41:58,360
Speaker 2: I mean, well, it's well, you're all going through puberty,

715
00:41:58,480 --> 00:42:02,719
Speaker 2: it's very sexually charged. Everything is sexual. I actually I

716
00:42:02,800 --> 00:42:05,920
Speaker 2: can't speak for anyone else, but after I went through puberty,

717
00:42:06,200 --> 00:42:09,920
Speaker 2: I was under the covers fappen every night that blank

718
00:42:10,080 --> 00:42:13,200
Speaker 2: That blanket could have been cracked in from all the

719
00:42:13,400 --> 00:42:16,520
Speaker 2: dry throat of the dry ye on it. Because I

720
00:42:17,280 --> 00:42:20,439
Speaker 2: there was one summer that I found I was learning

721
00:42:20,480 --> 00:42:24,160
Speaker 2: to play the drums in the band cabin, the band

722
00:42:24,239 --> 00:42:27,880
Speaker 2: bunk or whatever, and I found a porn novel on

723
00:42:28,040 --> 00:42:32,120
Speaker 2: the floor and I it gave me so much material

724
00:42:32,239 --> 00:42:32,600
Speaker 2: to work with.

725
00:42:32,840 --> 00:42:37,080
Speaker 1: You love the written word, baby, I love the written word.

726
00:42:37,360 --> 00:42:42,640
Speaker 1: To yank your crank too, baby, Uncle Ronnie do horties.

727
00:43:03,440 --> 00:43:05,440
Speaker 1: You know, when you're at that like qu best and

728
00:43:05,480 --> 00:43:08,200
Speaker 1: preps in age, like you're starting to make sex jokes.

729
00:43:08,200 --> 00:43:10,040
Speaker 1: And even though we were at Jesus Camp, the kids

730
00:43:10,080 --> 00:43:12,239
Speaker 1: would like make jokes and then the counselors would like

731
00:43:12,400 --> 00:43:15,319
Speaker 1: yell at them. But mind you, the counselors are really

732
00:43:15,480 --> 00:43:19,000
Speaker 1: only like seventeen, Like they're not even like of age.

733
00:43:19,040 --> 00:43:21,520
Speaker 1: They're just like, you know, three or four years older

734
00:43:21,800 --> 00:43:25,279
Speaker 1: than the kids they are attending to. And like when

735
00:43:25,320 --> 00:43:28,720
Speaker 1: you're that young, three to five years feels like twenty years,

736
00:43:28,840 --> 00:43:32,600
Speaker 1: like they might as well be thirty something. Yeah, did

737
00:43:32,640 --> 00:43:35,040
Speaker 1: any of the counselors that your camp fuck the campaigners

738
00:43:35,640 --> 00:43:37,919
Speaker 1: because that that happened. Oh, oh my god, that's really

739
00:43:37,960 --> 00:43:40,319
Speaker 1: fucked up. No, but one of them was, yeah, they

740
00:43:40,400 --> 00:43:41,640
Speaker 1: used to get us if they used to get us

741
00:43:41,680 --> 00:43:43,960
Speaker 1: booze and they used to fuck. There were two that

742
00:43:44,160 --> 00:43:46,480
Speaker 1: So the year that my favorite year at summer camp

743
00:43:46,480 --> 00:43:48,640
Speaker 1: where I fell in love with Luke and Ashley, I

744
00:43:48,760 --> 00:43:54,920
Speaker 1: also had two very transparently closeted gay counselors named Gloria

745
00:43:55,080 --> 00:43:59,960
Speaker 1: and Kenny. And I remember Kenny yelling at these kids

746
00:44:00,520 --> 00:44:03,319
Speaker 1: because like one of them was like under his cover

747
00:44:03,560 --> 00:44:06,600
Speaker 1: and like proclaiming to the rest of the cabin that

748
00:44:06,680 --> 00:44:08,920
Speaker 1: he was like playing with himself. And I was like,

749
00:44:10,080 --> 00:44:12,759
Speaker 1: this guy, you have like a like a kind of

750
00:44:12,960 --> 00:44:15,759
Speaker 1: like exhibitionist like thing that you know you're going to

751
00:44:15,800 --> 00:44:20,040
Speaker 1: discover later on in life. Yeah, wait, who are camp counselors? What?

752
00:44:20,440 --> 00:44:25,480
Speaker 1: So did you ever become a camp counselor? Yes, but

753
00:44:25,800 --> 00:44:28,520
Speaker 1: but never never for a summer camp. There were a

754
00:44:28,680 --> 00:44:30,720
Speaker 1: couple years.

755
00:44:30,480 --> 00:44:35,000
Speaker 2: Where I was a camp counselor at like a winter

756
00:44:35,239 --> 00:44:39,759
Speaker 2: break camp, but I was always more of a babysitter.

757
00:44:40,320 --> 00:44:43,279
Speaker 1: I did not do a lot of camp counselor ing.

758
00:44:43,400 --> 00:44:46,840
Speaker 1: I was never a c T a counselor in training,

759
00:44:47,480 --> 00:44:49,880
Speaker 1: but my younger brother was. At one point I was,

760
00:44:50,360 --> 00:44:53,640
Speaker 1: and we still had to pay to be there. We

761
00:44:53,760 --> 00:44:59,360
Speaker 1: had to pay a discounted camp rate to basically do

762
00:45:00,960 --> 00:45:04,200
Speaker 1: essentially like free labor for the summer camp counseling these kids.

763
00:45:04,320 --> 00:45:08,360
Speaker 1: And we like clean toilets and like did like cafeteria shifts,

764
00:45:08,840 --> 00:45:12,520
Speaker 1: like what we had to pay to do that. It's crazy.

765
00:45:14,560 --> 00:45:18,960
Speaker 1: But I was gonna say something that was very silly

766
00:45:19,080 --> 00:45:20,960
Speaker 1: that I had to then do as a camp counselor

767
00:45:21,040 --> 00:45:24,560
Speaker 1: but also did as a camper. Was after I think

768
00:45:24,600 --> 00:45:29,560
Speaker 1: I've already told you this before, after every single camp activity,

769
00:45:29,640 --> 00:45:33,480
Speaker 1: whether it was like zipline, like doing tubing, the blob

770
00:45:33,719 --> 00:45:40,000
Speaker 1: arts and crafts whatever, after tubing, after every activity, we

771
00:45:40,120 --> 00:45:42,680
Speaker 1: would get in a circle, like our cabin would get

772
00:45:42,680 --> 00:45:44,719
Speaker 1: in a circle, and we would talk about how that

773
00:45:44,840 --> 00:45:48,800
Speaker 1: activity related to Jesus Christ. And it'd be like, so

774
00:45:49,000 --> 00:45:52,680
Speaker 1: today today we're at the high robes chores, Like, how

775
00:45:52,840 --> 00:45:55,279
Speaker 1: is this like your relationship with Jesus? And I was like,

776
00:45:55,719 --> 00:45:59,719
Speaker 1: Jesus is the ropes and gravity is the devil, and

777
00:46:00,040 --> 00:46:02,239
Speaker 1: and you know if you fall, it's a sin. And

778
00:46:02,640 --> 00:46:04,160
Speaker 1: like that's like what we had to do. We had

779
00:46:04,200 --> 00:46:07,920
Speaker 1: to like metaphorize like every fucking thing we did, Like

780
00:46:08,160 --> 00:46:11,840
Speaker 1: we were like, you know, eighth grade English students, and

781
00:46:12,840 --> 00:46:16,239
Speaker 1: I hate I hated it. It was so forced. Wow,

782
00:46:16,719 --> 00:46:18,000
Speaker 1: that's so lame.

783
00:46:19,120 --> 00:46:24,080
Speaker 2: The summer after my last year at Sleepway Camp, because

784
00:46:24,080 --> 00:46:25,560
Speaker 2: you know, my brother was still going to camp and

785
00:46:25,680 --> 00:46:28,239
Speaker 2: my mom obviously still wanted to get rid of me.

786
00:46:28,360 --> 00:46:32,000
Speaker 2: During the summer, I did the sort of next level

787
00:46:32,040 --> 00:46:34,360
Speaker 2: of camp, which is a teen tour. Do you know

788
00:46:34,360 --> 00:46:35,160
Speaker 2: what a teen tour is?

789
00:46:35,880 --> 00:46:36,480
Speaker 1: Yeah? What is it?

790
00:46:36,880 --> 00:46:40,960
Speaker 2: So it's like a bunch of teenagers are sent on

791
00:46:41,080 --> 00:46:45,400
Speaker 2: a trip. It's like traveling summer camp. So you're on

792
00:46:45,920 --> 00:46:49,400
Speaker 2: a bus with a bunch of other teenagers and you

793
00:46:49,640 --> 00:46:52,359
Speaker 2: go on like a pre selected route. So the teen

794
00:46:52,400 --> 00:46:57,040
Speaker 2: tour I went on was all the West Coast, so

795
00:46:57,239 --> 00:46:59,640
Speaker 2: we would go to like the national parks. We went

796
00:46:59,680 --> 00:47:03,359
Speaker 2: to Stay Francisco, we went to La went to Salt

797
00:47:03,440 --> 00:47:07,040
Speaker 2: Lake City, I think, and some of them are all camping,

798
00:47:07,280 --> 00:47:09,960
Speaker 2: some of them are all hotels. Ours was half and

799
00:47:10,080 --> 00:47:14,760
Speaker 2: half and yeah, it's it's like summer camp on the road,

800
00:47:16,160 --> 00:47:19,000
Speaker 2: and so it's like a little bit more grown up,

801
00:47:19,080 --> 00:47:21,799
Speaker 2: and I felt very worldly. You know that I went

802
00:47:21,960 --> 00:47:27,960
Speaker 2: and explored the other side of the country. And that's

803
00:47:28,000 --> 00:47:33,040
Speaker 2: also where I made my first designer purchase ever, was

804
00:47:33,080 --> 00:47:35,480
Speaker 2: in San Francisco. I went to the Louis Bauton store

805
00:47:35,960 --> 00:47:39,920
Speaker 2: and bought a pair of slides with my mom's Target

806
00:47:40,000 --> 00:47:42,400
Speaker 2: credit card that she had given me for emergency.

807
00:47:42,440 --> 00:47:47,200
Speaker 1: You were such a little brat like I was. Abe

808
00:47:47,640 --> 00:47:51,200
Speaker 1: LV is like the Gateway luxury brand those But why

809
00:47:51,400 --> 00:47:53,880
Speaker 1: those bags are hideous? I guess they are kind of

810
00:47:54,040 --> 00:47:57,200
Speaker 1: like doniye Burk adjacent, Like they are so ugly that

811
00:47:57,360 --> 00:48:01,520
Speaker 1: Midwestern moms like just have to have them. It's just

812
00:48:01,560 --> 00:48:02,280
Speaker 1: about the label.

813
00:48:02,320 --> 00:48:05,360
Speaker 2: It's like the most it's the most visible logo of

814
00:48:05,560 --> 00:48:07,720
Speaker 2: any you know, designer friend.

815
00:48:08,760 --> 00:48:13,759
Speaker 1: What when did you stop going to camp? Not soon enough?

816
00:48:13,880 --> 00:48:16,920
Speaker 1: I actually don't know. I probably stopped when I was, like,

817
00:48:17,080 --> 00:48:20,480
Speaker 1: I mean, definitely before I think my I think freshman

818
00:48:20,600 --> 00:48:24,000
Speaker 1: year of high school maybe was my last year. Like

819
00:48:24,080 --> 00:48:27,440
Speaker 1: I think that by the time I had entered high school,

820
00:48:27,600 --> 00:48:31,440
Speaker 1: I had started to, you know, liberate myself a little bit.

821
00:48:32,680 --> 00:48:34,840
Speaker 1: I was starting to think for myself. I was trying to,

822
00:48:35,080 --> 00:48:38,359
Speaker 1: you know, figure out who I was. And I think

823
00:48:38,400 --> 00:48:41,640
Speaker 1: as a consequence of that I just hated church, hated Christianity,

824
00:48:41,719 --> 00:48:45,320
Speaker 1: hated like being around church people, and was just pulling

825
00:48:45,360 --> 00:48:48,040
Speaker 1: away from it as much as possible. So I did,

826
00:48:48,480 --> 00:48:52,760
Speaker 1: you know, eventually stop going. But it felt so sad,

827
00:48:52,920 --> 00:48:55,719
Speaker 1: like I felt, I feel like because I was such

828
00:48:55,760 --> 00:48:57,600
Speaker 1: a I don't know what kind of like high.

829
00:48:57,400 --> 00:49:00,280
Speaker 3: School that you were, like, I was such a loser

830
00:49:00,440 --> 00:49:04,400
Speaker 3: in school, like a loser, loser, loser until like pretty

831
00:49:04,480 --> 00:49:07,960
Speaker 3: much my last two years of school before college and.

832
00:49:10,040 --> 00:49:12,160
Speaker 1: Summer camp is where I felt like I belonged, Like

833
00:49:12,480 --> 00:49:14,239
Speaker 1: uh yeah, And you know why.

834
00:49:14,400 --> 00:49:16,719
Speaker 2: You know why that is because you get to lie

835
00:49:16,760 --> 00:49:19,359
Speaker 2: about who you are because no, because no one goes

836
00:49:19,400 --> 00:49:21,759
Speaker 2: to school with you, So you get to lie your

837
00:49:21,960 --> 00:49:24,200
Speaker 2: ass off about your life and make yourself sound a

838
00:49:24,280 --> 00:49:27,040
Speaker 2: lot cooler than you are. The only problem I ran

839
00:49:27,120 --> 00:49:28,919
Speaker 2: into with that was that I had a younger brother

840
00:49:29,320 --> 00:49:33,040
Speaker 2: who was always happy to contradict my lies and tell

841
00:49:33,080 --> 00:49:34,879
Speaker 2: people what the truth was about my life.

842
00:49:35,160 --> 00:49:38,440
Speaker 1: EW I knowed I hate I mean, I I mean,

843
00:49:38,719 --> 00:49:40,960
Speaker 1: I was like definitely in there being like, yeah, I'm straight,

844
00:49:41,040 --> 00:49:44,520
Speaker 1: you gras, I'm totally a boy, you guys, But I

845
00:49:44,600 --> 00:49:50,400
Speaker 1: feel like there is like I feel like I was

846
00:49:50,600 --> 00:49:54,320
Speaker 1: ultimately actually trying to be myself because I couldn't be

847
00:49:54,480 --> 00:49:58,480
Speaker 1: myself back at home in some way. So I am

848
00:49:58,640 --> 00:50:01,200
Speaker 1: grateful to like have had that space in Summer camp.

849
00:50:01,280 --> 00:50:03,840
Speaker 1: And something else that's very specific to Jesus Camp that

850
00:50:04,280 --> 00:50:05,520
Speaker 1: I don't know if you did a version of this,

851
00:50:05,760 --> 00:50:09,279
Speaker 1: but every night, or maybe every other night, maybe we

852
00:50:09,320 --> 00:50:11,759
Speaker 1: took a night off every other night or so, we

853
00:50:11,800 --> 00:50:13,800
Speaker 1: would have like a kind of campfire moment where we

854
00:50:13,800 --> 00:50:15,839
Speaker 1: would do like a little worship music and we would

855
00:50:15,920 --> 00:50:19,960
Speaker 1: like do like an icebreak or something, and then we

856
00:50:20,040 --> 00:50:26,200
Speaker 1: would take turns sharing our deepest, darkest trauma. And and literally,

857
00:50:27,120 --> 00:50:29,719
Speaker 1: I'm not joking, I'm not joking. It was like it

858
00:50:29,880 --> 00:50:33,360
Speaker 1: was is honestly, it's honestly like the heart Circles of

859
00:50:33,680 --> 00:50:37,239
Speaker 1: Beltane like it. But the way it was so methodical,

860
00:50:37,480 --> 00:50:42,680
Speaker 1: like every single kid was required to have like a

861
00:50:42,880 --> 00:50:46,640
Speaker 1: sharing moment at this campfire, and because of the prompts

862
00:50:46,680 --> 00:50:49,200
Speaker 1: and like how it was set up to like you know,

863
00:50:49,280 --> 00:50:51,640
Speaker 1: basically like asking about how you accepted Jesus in your

864
00:50:51,640 --> 00:50:53,440
Speaker 1: heart and like what your like kind of biggest obstacle

865
00:50:53,520 --> 00:50:56,600
Speaker 1: was in it or whatever. These kids were like sobbing

866
00:50:56,760 --> 00:50:59,800
Speaker 1: and talking about you know, when they were like abuse

867
00:51:00,080 --> 00:51:03,120
Speaker 1: start like you know, like having sexual relations with older

868
00:51:03,239 --> 00:51:06,000
Speaker 1: kids or like closet and like I never, you know,

869
00:51:06,160 --> 00:51:07,560
Speaker 1: told him that I was gay, But I don't. I

870
00:51:07,640 --> 00:51:09,440
Speaker 1: don't even remember, like what I had to lie about

871
00:51:09,640 --> 00:51:12,520
Speaker 1: to like tell them what my trauma was. That's that's

872
00:51:12,600 --> 00:51:14,680
Speaker 1: when you that's when the stories came out. Like the

873
00:51:14,800 --> 00:51:17,200
Speaker 1: kid I was, we never had to do any of

874
00:51:17,239 --> 00:51:19,279
Speaker 1: that ship, but that would have been my moment to

875
00:51:19,400 --> 00:51:27,120
Speaker 1: tell the most detailed, outrageous, unbelievable lie that I was,

876
00:51:27,280 --> 00:51:31,400
Speaker 1: like so sure I was getting away with when everyone

877
00:51:31,520 --> 00:51:34,720
Speaker 1: must have been like that kid's like he's her knees

878
00:51:35,239 --> 00:51:37,719
Speaker 1: lying his head. Didn't even need to lie, you could

879
00:51:37,760 --> 00:51:40,040
Speaker 1: just tell them like one. So from there.

880
00:51:40,400 --> 00:51:42,600
Speaker 2: But I loved lying. When I was a kid, I

881
00:51:42,760 --> 00:51:44,880
Speaker 2: loved lying and I thought I was so good. I

882
00:51:44,880 --> 00:51:49,720
Speaker 2: mean always I was, but I always added too much detail.

883
00:51:50,440 --> 00:51:52,440
Speaker 2: But you know, the thing is kids are stupid, so

884
00:51:52,600 --> 00:51:54,880
Speaker 2: they'll believe that too much detail. That's true, But the

885
00:51:54,920 --> 00:51:58,480
Speaker 2: count and they knew what was up, and I was

886
00:51:58,680 --> 00:52:03,760
Speaker 2: such I okay. So I always wanted to be friends

887
00:52:03,920 --> 00:52:07,719
Speaker 2: with both the older campers and the counselors. And I

888
00:52:08,520 --> 00:52:13,360
Speaker 2: still cringe thinking about trying to make counselors like me

889
00:52:13,480 --> 00:52:16,839
Speaker 2: and just what a loser I was, And Sphoebe said,

890
00:52:16,920 --> 00:52:19,160
Speaker 2: this is why I have a podcast now, why Like

891
00:52:19,239 --> 00:52:21,239
Speaker 2: because I was like a lying.

892
00:52:21,160 --> 00:52:27,360
Speaker 1: Loser making up stories. Wow, summer Camp is really dramatic.

893
00:52:28,200 --> 00:52:28,400
Speaker 1: You know.

894
00:52:28,520 --> 00:52:32,600
Speaker 2: I'm I'm like glad that I went. I don't know, well,

895
00:52:32,600 --> 00:52:35,279
Speaker 2: I'm not planning on having children. I don't know that

896
00:52:35,400 --> 00:52:38,080
Speaker 2: I would send them to sleep Boy Camp if I

897
00:52:38,160 --> 00:52:39,600
Speaker 2: were to have children.

898
00:52:39,360 --> 00:52:40,160
Speaker 1: Because.

899
00:52:41,520 --> 00:52:45,520
Speaker 2: Like I get needing the time off from being a parent,

900
00:52:45,719 --> 00:52:48,680
Speaker 2: but also like you signed up.

901
00:52:48,680 --> 00:52:51,320
Speaker 1: For this, so it would depend on my partner. But

902
00:52:51,480 --> 00:52:54,680
Speaker 1: if I have kids, they're going to boarding school. Yeah,

903
00:52:54,680 --> 00:52:57,040
Speaker 1: I mean not boarding school. I wouldn't be that cruel,

904
00:52:57,120 --> 00:52:59,640
Speaker 1: but yeah, I need a break, Like I don't want

905
00:52:59,680 --> 00:53:03,240
Speaker 1: to see you for months at a time one hundred

906
00:53:03,280 --> 00:53:05,879
Speaker 1: and ten percent otherwise like what am I going to do? Yeah?

907
00:53:05,960 --> 00:53:08,280
Speaker 2: I mean I feel like when my when my nephew

908
00:53:08,960 --> 00:53:12,440
Speaker 2: is like a teenager and my brother and sister in

909
00:53:12,560 --> 00:53:14,040
Speaker 2: law want to send him to camp, I'll be like,

910
00:53:14,360 --> 00:53:16,279
Speaker 2: send him to York. He can stay with me for

911
00:53:16,360 --> 00:53:19,239
Speaker 2: a couple of months and like have a you know,

912
00:53:19,400 --> 00:53:21,880
Speaker 2: an experience. I think that would be but you know,

913
00:53:22,200 --> 00:53:24,320
Speaker 2: they probably want to hang out with kids want to

914
00:53:24,400 --> 00:53:26,880
Speaker 2: hang out with other kids weirdly enough, so he probably

915
00:53:26,920 --> 00:53:27,520
Speaker 2: would rather.

916
00:53:27,760 --> 00:53:30,400
Speaker 1: I mean, I don't know, I just like, I know

917
00:53:30,520 --> 00:53:32,840
Speaker 1: not every kid is like this, but like I craved

918
00:53:33,440 --> 00:53:36,719
Speaker 1: time away from my parents, and you do the most

919
00:53:36,840 --> 00:53:40,839
Speaker 1: growing up when you leave home, leave your parents, find

920
00:53:40,880 --> 00:53:43,640
Speaker 1: a new context. Like it's just good for you and

921
00:53:43,760 --> 00:53:46,400
Speaker 1: good for your soul and no, I just want to

922
00:53:46,440 --> 00:53:48,880
Speaker 1: be around my mom MoMA. Girl.

923
00:53:55,840 --> 00:53:57,799
Speaker 2: Slide into our dms at Like a Virgin four twenty

924
00:53:57,840 --> 00:54:02,719
Speaker 2: sixty nine. Let us know what's your favorite summer camp activity.

925
00:54:03,480 --> 00:54:06,120
Speaker 1: Which color would you want to be in? Color war

926
00:54:06,280 --> 00:54:10,360
Speaker 1: slash I guess the race war. I don't know about that.

927
00:54:11,680 --> 00:54:14,280
Speaker 1: Make sure you listen next week for an all new episode.

928
00:54:14,560 --> 00:54:17,759
Speaker 2: Until then, you can buy our merchan at like a

929
00:54:17,840 --> 00:54:20,240
Speaker 2: Virgin four twenty sixty nine dot com. You can also

930
00:54:21,120 --> 00:54:23,840
Speaker 2: subscribe to our Patreon Patreon dot com slash like a

931
00:54:23,920 --> 00:54:28,440
Speaker 2: Virgin four weekly bonus episodes, and follow us on Instagram

932
00:54:28,520 --> 00:54:31,319
Speaker 2: at like a Virgin four twenty sixty nine. You can

933
00:54:31,360 --> 00:54:34,400
Speaker 2: also follow me anywhere if you want, at Rose Damue,

934
00:54:34,600 --> 00:54:35,280
Speaker 2: and you can.

935
00:54:35,719 --> 00:54:38,520
Speaker 1: Search my name tran Thrato on any social media platform.

936
00:54:38,600 --> 00:54:41,080
Speaker 1: I need to change my handle ros I can I

937
00:54:41,200 --> 00:54:44,040
Speaker 1: need it to be? You really need to change it.

938
00:54:46,160 --> 00:54:49,400
Speaker 2: Like a Virgin's iHeartRadio production our producers pepe Unter, with

939
00:54:49,440 --> 00:54:51,200
Speaker 2: support from Lindsay Hoffmann and Nikki

940
00:54:51,239 --> 00:55:00,719
Speaker 1: Etur Bye Smell Ya later, Luke