WEBVTT - Ep. 409: Lung King 0:00:08.960 --> 0:00:13.320 This is me eat your podcast coming at you shirtless, severely, 0:00:13.440 --> 0:00:17.680 bug bitten, and in my case, underwear. Listening to hunt podcast, 0:00:18.239 --> 0:00:23.360 you can't predict anything presented by first, like creating proven 0:00:23.640 --> 0:00:27.840 versatile hunting apparel from Marino bass layers to technical outerwear 0:00:27.960 --> 0:00:36.400 for every hunt. First like go farther, stay longer, Listen up. 0:00:36.720 --> 0:00:39.120 This is honest pitelist from meat Eater, and I need 0:00:39.200 --> 0:00:41.680 your help. I'm going to be at the National Wild 0:00:41.720 --> 0:00:46.040 Turkey Federation's Annual Convention in Nashville, Tennessee this year, and 0:00:46.080 --> 0:00:50.519 I'm looking for the best Turkey storytellers alive. Now. I 0:00:50.600 --> 0:00:52.960 know we all have a good turkey story to tell, 0:00:53.320 --> 0:00:55.760 but I want you to think about who you know 0:00:55.880 --> 0:01:00.080 that tells an absolutely riveting turkey tale a person and 0:01:00.120 --> 0:01:03.760 that draws everyone in the room to their story. Bring 0:01:03.840 --> 0:01:07.120 them to me. I'm going to be at Ryman's Studios 0:01:07.319 --> 0:01:10.320 in the same building as a convention, set up with 0:01:10.400 --> 0:01:12.959 recording equipment and fill. The engineer is going to be 0:01:13.000 --> 0:01:16.160 there to make sure it sounds great. I have a 0:01:16.160 --> 0:01:19.600 goal of creating a national archive of hunters stories, and 0:01:19.680 --> 0:01:23.000 my first stop is the Southeast because I know you 0:01:23.080 --> 0:01:26.080 all down there. It can spend a good story. This 0:01:26.280 --> 0:01:29.800 is our oral history. I believe there's immense historical value 0:01:29.840 --> 0:01:33.080 to these stories and they should be preserved for future generations. 0:01:33.440 --> 0:01:36.840 Don't let your grandpa's stories die with him. Bring him 0:01:36.880 --> 0:01:39.480 to the convention and have him spin a yarn for me. 0:01:40.080 --> 0:01:45.360 The stories can be funny, sad, educational, exciting, but most importantly, 0:01:45.480 --> 0:01:48.600 they have to be engaging. This is where the good 0:01:48.600 --> 0:01:52.600 storyteller part comes in. All storytellers will get twenty minutes 0:01:52.640 --> 0:01:54.800 to tell their story, and I will be on hand 0:01:54.840 --> 0:01:57.400 to ask questions to fill in the blanks. We'll be 0:01:57.440 --> 0:02:00.960 recording at Ryman's studio see from nine am to four 0:02:01.040 --> 0:02:04.920 pm Thursday, Friday, and Saturday of the convention, which is 0:02:05.000 --> 0:02:10.240 February and eighteen. There will be posters directing you to 0:02:10.360 --> 0:02:13.280 our location to sign up for a time slot. Ahead 0:02:13.280 --> 0:02:17.080 of time, go to the meat eater dot com and 0:02:17.160 --> 0:02:20.440 search Turkey Story sign up. We will also have sign 0:02:20.560 --> 0:02:24.560 up available on location at the door of Ryman Studio See. 0:02:25.280 --> 0:02:28.280 Met Eater will use these stories in a forthcoming audio project, 0:02:28.400 --> 0:02:31.400 most likely in podcast format, so they will be available 0:02:31.440 --> 0:02:35.280 to everyone as long as the Internet is alive. So 0:02:35.400 --> 0:02:38.720 please come to Nashville for the National Wild Turkey Federation 0:02:38.720 --> 0:02:42.520 Convention and bring me the best Turkey storyteller you know. 0:02:43.160 --> 0:02:53.079 Are hunting legacy depends on it? Okay? Joined today by 0:02:53.080 --> 0:02:59.519 Brodie cal Spencer, Phil Crinn, and Dr Jonathan Riceman. Krin 0:02:59.600 --> 0:03:02.600 described some as a medical doctor, hunter author, and the 0:03:02.639 --> 0:03:06.720 man who wants to overturn the federal law against selling 0:03:06.720 --> 0:03:11.639 and eating long I want to overturn uh Yeloso National Park. 0:03:13.320 --> 0:03:16.720 Let's join forces. You know, well do mine. There's a 0:03:16.720 --> 0:03:18.440 couple of things I want to make it so the 0:03:18.480 --> 0:03:22.119 whole country is the blaze orange laws or orange hat 0:03:22.880 --> 0:03:26.320 crossing cart like Supreme Court ruling orange hat nothing more, 0:03:26.480 --> 0:03:30.880 nothing less for firearm, honey less, but not more. Then 0:03:31.000 --> 0:03:33.440 I want Yellowstone to be turned into a wilderness area 0:03:33.680 --> 0:03:37.040 and all the infrastructure removed, just the main highways going 0:03:37.120 --> 0:03:41.000 through it, and just a giant just to restore it 0:03:41.040 --> 0:03:45.920 to a pristine state. Think about that. I'd support it, 0:03:46.520 --> 0:03:48.720 And you wanna um make it that people can buy 0:03:48.760 --> 0:03:51.760 and sell long right, you can buy and sell it 0:03:51.800 --> 0:03:54.160 as a dog treat for dog food, but you cannot 0:03:54.240 --> 0:03:56.000 buy it or sell it or serve it in a 0:03:56.080 --> 0:03:59.480 restaurant for human food. I got one for you. The 0:03:59.520 --> 0:04:02.680 says nothing, do a long. I thought we'd put this 0:04:02.800 --> 0:04:05.080 question to rest, but this is a medical question for you. 0:04:06.480 --> 0:04:09.160 There is a phenomena. This is gonna get mighty scatological 0:04:11.160 --> 0:04:13.720 because there's a lot of stuff. So if you don't 0:04:13.720 --> 0:04:19.280 like scatological stuff, just move on. Do you guys remember 0:04:19.320 --> 0:04:27.839 when we explored the phenomenon known as deja who meaning Spencer, 0:04:28.839 --> 0:04:30.560 I wrote about this for our website and get a 0:04:30.560 --> 0:04:34.080 fact checker on, go ahead? What would you come up 0:04:34.080 --> 0:04:36.960 with on that? I don't even remember that. Uh that 0:04:37.480 --> 0:04:41.400 it's it's going to explain what it is. Deja poo 0:04:41.480 --> 0:04:45.799 would be where say you just got done hunting deer 0:04:46.040 --> 0:04:48.280 the day before and you were successfuldn't do that one, 0:04:48.320 --> 0:04:49.880 but go ahead, now you go ahead and laid out 0:04:49.880 --> 0:04:54.560 then rabbit, Okay, rabbit is the worst offender. I'm just 0:04:54.600 --> 0:04:59.080 going to quickly define scatological relating to or characterized by 0:04:59.080 --> 0:05:04.159 an interest in ex from the next creation. Started really 0:05:04.200 --> 0:05:06.839 wearing me out. It's starting to wear me out. But 0:05:06.880 --> 0:05:12.640 you know how stuff like leads. Okay, Spencer, they defined 0:05:12.720 --> 0:05:15.120 deja pop. I'll read you the claim for how I 0:05:15.240 --> 0:05:16.840 This is how I lay out fact checkers on our 0:05:16.880 --> 0:05:22.039 website in this article is called fact checker. Does gutting 0:05:22.080 --> 0:05:24.960 dear make your farts smell like guts? That lays it 0:05:25.040 --> 0:05:27.640 right out, Okay, And here's the claim. After field dressing 0:05:27.640 --> 0:05:31.000 a kill, your gas will start to smell like animal 0:05:31.120 --> 0:05:34.800 organs within twenty four hours. This observation has been made 0:05:34.839 --> 0:05:38.960 by those who pursued deer ducks, pheasants, and other game. 0:05:40.560 --> 0:05:45.360 So in this hypothetical, you were successful rabbit hunting on say, 0:05:45.400 --> 0:05:49.080 Saturday morning, and then Saturday evening you have a bowl 0:05:49.160 --> 0:05:53.200 movement and you notice that your bomb movement smells like 0:05:53.279 --> 0:05:57.200 the rabbit guts, and that's what you call deja puh. Yeah. 0:05:57.440 --> 0:06:02.200 So Dr Riceman, you'll come into this in a minute. 0:06:03.839 --> 0:06:07.839 So we had explored this and I think someone want 0:06:07.880 --> 0:06:11.240 to saying the reason they call it dejacu? Who is 0:06:11.279 --> 0:06:13.599 he thinking? He was? Some person was explaining and some 0:06:13.760 --> 0:06:16.479 medical professional was explaining that it's a trick of the mind. 0:06:16.520 --> 0:06:20.720 It's a trick of the brain. Um. I was just 0:06:21.160 --> 0:06:23.320 on Rogan's podcast and he and I were doing some 0:06:23.440 --> 0:06:26.560 hunting afterwards, and he brought it up to me because 0:06:26.600 --> 0:06:30.480 he knew a person who was a bear guide and 0:06:30.680 --> 0:06:33.760 their daughter was exposed to so much bear skinning and 0:06:33.800 --> 0:06:38.839 bear gutting, and she was having such bad gas that 0:06:39.040 --> 0:06:41.920 smelled so terribly of bear guts that she had to 0:06:41.960 --> 0:06:45.160 go home from school. Wow, had to call her mom 0:06:45.240 --> 0:06:53.520 to come get her. I told, I told, I told Joe. 0:06:53.720 --> 0:06:56.039 I'm like, it's not I said, we we kind of 0:06:56.080 --> 0:06:58.760 explored this. I don't remember the details, but it's not. 0:06:59.360 --> 0:07:04.360 It's a trick of the brain. And I said, alternately, 0:07:04.839 --> 0:07:06.440 if it's not a trick of the brain, what it 0:07:06.480 --> 0:07:11.800 means is somehow those microbes have gone in your nose, 0:07:12.440 --> 0:07:16.400 gotten into your gut, proliferated in your gut, and it 0:07:16.440 --> 0:07:20.200 inhabited your gut and then passed out as flatulence, which 0:07:20.320 --> 0:07:23.880 just like seemed far fetched to me. Who sent her home? 0:07:23.960 --> 0:07:26.800 That's what I want to know. She opted to go home, 0:07:27.280 --> 0:07:36.520 She called, here's the gut, here's the takeaway I got 0:07:36.560 --> 0:07:39.720 from from the physician. I talked to you about this phenomenon. 0:07:39.800 --> 0:07:42.520 And then then as Dr Riceman's turned but they final 0:07:42.680 --> 0:07:44.760 because this is this is probably right up his alley. 0:07:44.920 --> 0:07:47.640 They said, there were potentially two things that are happening here. 0:07:47.720 --> 0:07:51.600 One is that the nose hairs are tramping some like 0:07:51.720 --> 0:07:55.240 microparticles that were related to what you were doing. And 0:07:55.280 --> 0:07:59.120 then when you have like a strong smell later, you're 0:07:59.160 --> 0:08:02.440 you're smelling that again. So it's like you're physically smelling 0:08:02.480 --> 0:08:05.360 that same thing you smelled earlier. It's one possible explanation. 0:08:06.200 --> 0:08:10.960 The other explanation is that, uh, your old factory receptor 0:08:11.000 --> 0:08:14.600 cells are strongly tied to your memory, and that smells 0:08:14.640 --> 0:08:18.280 are like the strongest thing that you can tie to 0:08:18.400 --> 0:08:21.160 your brain when it comes to recalling something, and that 0:08:21.920 --> 0:08:24.320 your mind is just playing a trick on you. And 0:08:24.320 --> 0:08:27.200 then when you smell something bad down the line, it 0:08:27.240 --> 0:08:29.040 makes me makes you think of that thing that you 0:08:29.080 --> 0:08:31.280 just smelled earlier the same way. That's the conclusion that 0:08:31.320 --> 0:08:33.840 we can do before. But this was not satisfactory to 0:08:33.880 --> 0:08:37.840 my interlockertor. And this this physician said, the same thing happens, 0:08:37.880 --> 0:08:39.719 like if you smell cookies and it makes you think 0:08:39.760 --> 0:08:42.640 of being at Grandma's house or something like that. Memory 0:08:42.679 --> 0:08:46.199 is strongly tied to smells. But what they did rule 0:08:46.240 --> 0:08:50.320 out it is absolutely not that you're inhaling um a 0:08:50.400 --> 0:08:54.040 bunch of fumes that get into your gut, that come 0:08:54.040 --> 0:08:56.640 out your brand. They're breathing your gut. Yeah, that's not. 0:08:56.960 --> 0:09:00.199 That's not the case. Dr Roisman Scott aloge Go was 0:09:00.240 --> 0:09:03.160 definitely up my alley and my my daily job. Basically, 0:09:03.440 --> 0:09:05.560 I would say, I guess a few questions. You know, 0:09:05.559 --> 0:09:08.480 whenever we try to show causality or do a medical study, 0:09:08.480 --> 0:09:11.000 we always think of confounders, things that are confusing it 0:09:11.080 --> 0:09:14.840 and leading you astray from I already like this answer, 0:09:14.960 --> 0:09:17.360 So one did the I guess My question is did 0:09:17.400 --> 0:09:19.640 the person eat any of that meat between gutting it? 0:09:19.880 --> 0:09:22.400 And we'll eat the gut taking a dump, or eat 0:09:22.440 --> 0:09:24.600 the guts or the meat. I guess. I'm not positive 0:09:24.640 --> 0:09:26.480 that would then change the smell of their stool, but 0:09:26.520 --> 0:09:29.000 that could be something. Whether or not they ate it 0:09:29.080 --> 0:09:34.200 is a question if not my hands. And I want 0:09:34.200 --> 0:09:37.160 to give you another ex like the hypothetical that happens 0:09:37.160 --> 0:09:39.160 to me if I were to be um like bow 0:09:39.240 --> 0:09:41.480 fishing or duck hunting, and I'm wading through some like 0:09:41.520 --> 0:09:46.080 really swampy, nasty water um that has like some deep 0:09:46.160 --> 0:09:49.320 mud into that swamp smell is the one that I 0:09:49.360 --> 0:09:52.920 recall worst, like way worse than a gut pile or 0:09:52.960 --> 0:09:55.320 something like that. But it's that swampy water smell, So 0:09:55.360 --> 0:10:00.120 I'm not eating that. What's that got to do with parts, 0:10:00.160 --> 0:10:03.000 because that's that's what I smell. La, I'm smelling the swamp. 0:10:04.440 --> 0:10:09.560 That word he flagellates that swamp essence back again. This 0:10:09.640 --> 0:10:14.480 is a phenomenon I've never experienced. But I can't just 0:10:14.480 --> 0:10:17.080 shot a rabbit. He got some pellets and the guts 0:10:17.120 --> 0:10:19.320 smelled real bad. No problem. Do you know what I'm 0:10:19.320 --> 0:10:21.360 talking about? When you're waiting, like through some cat tails 0:10:21.520 --> 0:10:24.760 in a swamp, and that's that's what I smell the 0:10:24.800 --> 0:10:28.280 strongest later But then later on I don't really smell 0:10:28.400 --> 0:10:33.080 that stuff. That's because it's not traumatic to you. This 0:10:33.160 --> 0:10:36.800 is this is a symptom of a post traumatic stress. 0:10:36.920 --> 0:10:39.960 I want to some context. It's not always about eating it. Yeah, 0:10:40.000 --> 0:10:43.240 I want to rule out he's saying confounding factors. Eating 0:10:43.480 --> 0:10:45.800 is not a factor. Right. So another thing, I would 0:10:45.840 --> 0:10:50.720 wonder if the flatus or the stool always smelled that bad. 0:10:50.760 --> 0:10:54.440 What was that word flatus? Oh that's like fart stuff 0:10:54.800 --> 0:11:02.840 like that. Yeah, you never already today Like wow, this 0:11:02.920 --> 0:11:06.640 flatus smells like the animal I got it earlier. Yeah, 0:11:06.880 --> 0:11:09.120 So I guess I wondered that the plate is always 0:11:09.120 --> 0:11:11.480 smell that way and just because you had this stinky 0:11:11.520 --> 0:11:14.760 experience in the recent past, you're now associating it with it. 0:11:15.200 --> 0:11:18.199 The other thing is I seriously doubt you're inhaling microbes 0:11:18.240 --> 0:11:20.760 that are then populating your gut. Otherwise you could do 0:11:20.840 --> 0:11:24.160 like a fecal medical transplant just by inhaling stool, and 0:11:24.200 --> 0:11:27.680 that has not been demonstrated yet, but maybe more research 0:11:27.760 --> 0:11:31.280 is needed there. So you're buying, you're weighing in on 0:11:31.520 --> 0:11:34.120 the memory thing. I think it maybe I guess if 0:11:34.120 --> 0:11:35.480 I had to put my money down to be a 0:11:35.480 --> 0:11:37.760 trick of the memory that it maybe it smelled that 0:11:37.800 --> 0:11:40.960 way or similar, uh, and it just reminds you of 0:11:40.960 --> 0:11:43.760 that recent smell your head. Or the person who's hunting 0:11:43.840 --> 0:11:47.120 also eats a lot of maybe wild game or or 0:11:47.200 --> 0:11:49.360 oh full or something that makes their stool smell in 0:11:49.400 --> 0:11:52.360 that particular way. Or I can't remember the last time 0:11:53.120 --> 0:11:56.880 I gut it an animal and then had like a 0:11:57.000 --> 0:12:01.680 full change of clothes ready with, you know, within a 0:12:01.760 --> 0:12:06.360 period between them in my next constitutional movement, you know. 0:12:07.000 --> 0:12:12.320 So I think there's all sorts of traces of smell. 0:12:12.400 --> 0:12:15.600 If my dogs tell me anything on my pants, on 0:12:15.679 --> 0:12:18.600 my hands, on my jacket, nose hairs, do but what 0:12:18.640 --> 0:12:23.040 does that have to do with I think that would 0:12:23.080 --> 0:12:27.880 be like somebody taking the poop and they are smelling, 0:12:29.600 --> 0:12:31.600 you know, parts of the animal gut and stuff like that, 0:12:31.600 --> 0:12:34.400 but it's remnants on their boots, remnants on their pant cuffs, 0:12:34.480 --> 0:12:37.480 or reminance on there be there whether they went and 0:12:37.559 --> 0:12:41.719 defecated or not. Yes, it would, it would, but they're 0:12:41.760 --> 0:12:45.280 picking up on that extra scent and and saying like, 0:12:46.120 --> 0:12:50.200 yes exactly. And when you go to the bathroom you 0:12:50.240 --> 0:12:52.240 kind of ruffle your clothes in some way. Maybe that 0:12:52.320 --> 0:12:56.680 releases some more of it. That's not it, dude. What 0:12:56.720 --> 0:12:58.839 it is is this. It's it's a trick of the memory. 0:12:58.840 --> 0:13:01.280 Here's the way to test it. Get a bunch of 0:13:01.320 --> 0:13:06.520 season to rabbit hunters old rap okay, Get a bunch 0:13:06.520 --> 0:13:09.160 of seasoned rabbit hunters who have rabbit hunted in forever. 0:13:10.000 --> 0:13:13.840 Not hard to do, right. You get some guys who 0:13:13.840 --> 0:13:17.839 haven't been rabbit hunt for five years, ten years, Put 0:13:17.920 --> 0:13:24.360 them with a person who's prone to deja pu, okay, 0:13:24.800 --> 0:13:28.280 have him. You pay attention to this because this is 0:13:28.320 --> 0:13:31.280 a little do you do you publish much in academic 0:13:31.480 --> 0:13:33.640 not as much these days. More you're more and well 0:13:33.679 --> 0:13:36.920 if you get back into academic check this out. Get 0:13:36.960 --> 0:13:40.000 all these people and you get a rabbit hunter. You 0:13:40.040 --> 0:13:44.199 haven't got a whole bunch of rabbits. Okay. He then 0:13:44.280 --> 0:13:48.760 changes his clothes, takes a shower, goes into the room 0:13:48.800 --> 0:13:54.160 full of old rabbit hunters who haven't rabbit hunted. What's 0:13:54.200 --> 0:14:00.800 the verb for for? What's the verb for flat weights? Um? 0:14:00.800 --> 0:14:02.640 To be honest, I'm not sure if there is one 0:14:02.720 --> 0:14:08.599 produced latest Perhaps he produces this individual produces flate is 0:14:09.720 --> 0:14:15.800 He's like, God smells like rabbits, right, Well, they're in 0:14:15.840 --> 0:14:21.680 an air tight room warm. Do the other people think 0:14:21.680 --> 0:14:26.320 it smells like rabbit guts? That's how you test this. 0:14:26.480 --> 0:14:29.320 So when when we publish this article, the Facebook comments 0:14:29.320 --> 0:14:34.360 were littered with mostly dudes being like, my wife claims 0:14:34.400 --> 0:14:37.440 that my farts are the worst after a pheasant hunt, 0:14:38.840 --> 0:14:42.440 which I think is is awesome. I want to tell 0:14:42.440 --> 0:14:44.440 you how I know that. It's it's in your memory, 0:14:44.440 --> 0:14:46.680 It's in your head. I wrote this article in November. 0:14:48.120 --> 0:14:50.520 This had never happened to me before a few days later, 0:14:50.560 --> 0:14:53.120 I killed the deer, and that night it happened to 0:14:53.120 --> 0:14:55.040 me because I had been thinking about this and he 0:14:55.080 --> 0:14:57.160 was on my mind the same way. When I was 0:14:57.200 --> 0:14:59.520 in college, I had never heard of sleep paralysis, didn't 0:14:59.520 --> 0:15:00.920 know what it will. And then we had a whole 0:15:00.920 --> 0:15:03.400 class one day about sleep paralysis, and it happened to 0:15:03.480 --> 0:15:05.080 me like two months later. And I think it was 0:15:05.120 --> 0:15:07.120 just like I have a weak mind when it came 0:15:07.160 --> 0:15:09.880 to that kind of thing. Uh. And then I was 0:15:09.920 --> 0:15:13.560 exposed to it and it happened. Yeah, Like if you 0:15:13.640 --> 0:15:16.720 told me right now you had testicular cancer, heaven forbid, 0:15:17.200 --> 0:15:20.400 my nut would start hurting, like I had that same 0:15:20.440 --> 0:15:25.360 type of problem. That's specific. Oh yeah, if someone tells 0:15:25.400 --> 0:15:27.760 you they have a problem, instantly I get an ache there. 0:15:28.440 --> 0:15:33.040 It's either I'm like very self centered or very very 0:15:33.160 --> 0:15:40.640 what's it called, uh, empathetic? Empathetic, incredibly empathetic or or 0:15:41.360 --> 0:15:46.560 uh or something worse. Okay, I'm gonna we got a 0:15:46.600 --> 0:15:49.200 bunch more medical questions. This one. I don't want to 0:15:50.600 --> 0:15:52.760 let me do it kind of quick. A lot of 0:15:52.800 --> 0:15:57.240 people backed up Krin on cilium fiber. Krinn was saying 0:15:57.320 --> 0:16:02.040 as a backwoods technique, staying in scatological as a backwards technique. 0:16:02.080 --> 0:16:05.200 She eats cilium fiber, which is meta mucil. It's in 0:16:05.360 --> 0:16:09.960 meta mucil. But this is the just the pure ingredient, 0:16:10.200 --> 0:16:17.960 single ingredient itself. Yeah. It uh forms a gel inside 0:16:17.960 --> 0:16:21.320 your intestines. I mean in a way because it absorbs 0:16:21.320 --> 0:16:25.800 a lot of water. Yeah. Yeah, helps keep things clean. 0:16:25.880 --> 0:16:28.760 As Krim mentioned, also grabs cholesterol on its way out. 0:16:30.280 --> 0:16:33.040 This guy says it's more than safe for your listeners 0:16:34.160 --> 0:16:35.680 to take it while they're out in the woods to 0:16:35.760 --> 0:16:39.560 have a cleaner stool or a white bliss pooh. Where 0:16:39.560 --> 0:16:43.520 do you buy? What do you buying? That? Definitely um, well, 0:16:43.640 --> 0:16:46.880 Meta mucil or any other cilium containing product is or 0:16:46.920 --> 0:16:50.440 any fiber supplement is really good at keeping your regular 0:16:50.640 --> 0:16:53.440 getting rid of cholesterol and other things, slowing the absorption 0:16:53.440 --> 0:16:57.640 of sugars and other things. I've thought said recently, if 0:16:57.760 --> 0:17:00.680 fiber was a new pharmaceutical drug be held as like 0:17:00.720 --> 0:17:04.680 a medical miracle, like the effects on metaball like health 0:17:04.720 --> 0:17:09.040 CARDIVASCAR health are pretty astounding. They get a Nobel Prize too. 0:17:09.040 --> 0:17:14.840 Maybe those health benefits plus you don't you have a 0:17:14.840 --> 0:17:19.359 white bliss poop so many I like, I put this 0:17:19.440 --> 0:17:23.040 to bed. This frozen we're talking about how to be 0:17:23.200 --> 0:17:27.280 responsible out on the ice or responsible in the wintertime. 0:17:27.440 --> 0:17:29.520 Or whatever when you're when you need to go number 0:17:29.520 --> 0:17:31.480 two out in the woods or out on the ice, 0:17:32.600 --> 0:17:37.040 and so many microbiole just rode in to contest the 0:17:37.119 --> 0:17:41.400 idea that somehow the cold temperatures will render it safe. 0:17:42.960 --> 0:17:44.119 That I can't put it the rest and I have 0:17:44.200 --> 0:17:46.719 to bring it up once again. People like, if you're 0:17:46.760 --> 0:17:53.800 trying to save back here, you make it cold. They're 0:17:53.840 --> 0:17:56.880 like heat kills it. There's no it's like, that's how 0:17:56.920 --> 0:18:01.320 you preserve it is by freezing it. Don't make the 0:18:01.359 --> 0:18:04.280 mistake of thinking that if you vaulted in the ice 0:18:04.440 --> 0:18:08.080 and somehow will later be safe for users of the 0:18:08.119 --> 0:18:12.880 water in the summertime. We got letters from a septic processor, 0:18:13.080 --> 0:18:17.920 multiple microbiologist. Everybody's fired up about that. I'm glad we 0:18:18.040 --> 0:18:20.560 got that cleared up because I didn't like your vaulting idea. 0:18:20.640 --> 0:18:24.800 One one bit oh, one last thing to add um 0:18:24.920 --> 0:18:27.159 before we get into the before we get into better stuff. 0:18:27.920 --> 0:18:31.480 I was I was laying out for my kid, my 0:18:31.680 --> 0:18:36.480 argument about how my growing unease and skepticism of of 0:18:36.520 --> 0:18:40.240 these fall turkey seasons where you can just rape and 0:18:40.280 --> 0:18:44.120 pillage for turkeys in the fall, and how I think 0:18:44.119 --> 0:18:49.120 it's shortsighted and taking the turkey for granted. I told 0:18:49.160 --> 0:18:52.000 my kid, I was saying to him my argument that 0:18:52.040 --> 0:18:57.120 I said to him, if God didn't want your hunting 0:18:57.119 --> 0:19:00.600 turkeys in the spring, he wouldn't have made spring. And 0:19:00.600 --> 0:19:08.160 he said, why do you make fall? A great question? Sharp? 0:19:09.640 --> 0:19:14.200 So I had stuff saying that. All right, Dr Riceman, 0:19:14.880 --> 0:19:19.880 where do we begin? Man? Um, where do we begin? 0:19:20.920 --> 0:19:24.359 Let's talk talk about your background a little bit. Sure, 0:19:24.480 --> 0:19:27.879 I grew up in northern New Jersey and suburbs of 0:19:27.880 --> 0:19:33.679 New York City. Um, normal suburban um upbringing, had no 0:19:33.720 --> 0:19:37.480 way what makes it normal? Well? What is normal? I guess? Um? 0:19:37.520 --> 0:19:41.920 I guess typical maybe typical suburban New Jersey upbringing. Um 0:19:41.960 --> 0:19:45.639 I guess by normal, I mean uh, specifically like related 0:19:45.640 --> 0:19:48.280 to outdoors and hunting and fishing. I had no exposure 0:19:48.280 --> 0:19:50.520 as a child to any of that. Never ate any 0:19:50.600 --> 0:19:54.000 kind of wild game, probably till my twenties. Didn't know 0:19:54.040 --> 0:19:56.440 anyone who hunted, didn't know anyone. No one in my 0:19:56.480 --> 0:19:58.720 family even fished. I never went fishing as a kid, Like, 0:19:58.800 --> 0:20:01.520 had zero exposure to it. Didn't know anyone who owned 0:20:01.520 --> 0:20:04.320 a bow or a gun, never even thought about it. 0:20:04.960 --> 0:20:07.840 I mean meat meat came from the store, you know, 0:20:08.040 --> 0:20:10.680 cuts and meat. I mean, I knew they came from animals. 0:20:10.840 --> 0:20:13.600 I just never thought more about it. Wasn't interested in 0:20:13.800 --> 0:20:17.560 it from either a being horrified perspective or interested I 0:20:17.560 --> 0:20:21.840 want to learn more perspective. It just was not It 0:20:21.960 --> 0:20:24.359 just wasn't on my radar. I mean, I guess if 0:20:24.400 --> 0:20:26.720 you you know, if you don't know anyone who does it, 0:20:26.920 --> 0:20:29.160 you never I never read read about it. I mean, 0:20:29.160 --> 0:20:31.359 I guess I didn't even really read like adventure books 0:20:31.400 --> 0:20:34.159 about the Old West, as many maybe young boys do, 0:20:34.560 --> 0:20:36.240 so maybe maybe that would have piqued my interest. I 0:20:36.320 --> 0:20:38.520 guess I just wasn't exposed to it in any way. 0:20:38.920 --> 0:20:42.040 So it's a complete blank in my knowledge and experience. 0:20:42.760 --> 0:20:47.320 What what happened to uh to burst the bubble? Um? Well, 0:20:47.359 --> 0:20:51.600 I was an undergrad in New York University, and I 0:20:51.600 --> 0:20:55.280 don't even know how. I just got interested in wilderness survival. Um. 0:20:55.320 --> 0:20:58.720 I took a wild edible plants tour of Central Park 0:20:58.760 --> 0:21:01.640 in Manhattan and kind of learned to identify my first 0:21:01.720 --> 0:21:06.040 few plants, um, first few trees and first few edible 0:21:06.200 --> 0:21:09.520 We have found some raspberries, things like that Central Park 0:21:09.680 --> 0:21:12.359 in Central Park yeah, what else did you find? Like ginko? 0:21:12.440 --> 0:21:15.240 Beloba trees are kind of all over Manhattan. They're supposed 0:21:15.240 --> 0:21:18.560 to be sort of the non fruit bearing um sex, 0:21:18.600 --> 0:21:20.200 but I guess a lot of them end up bearing 0:21:20.240 --> 0:21:23.600 tons of these stinky fruits that have an edible nut inside. 0:21:24.000 --> 0:21:28.000 You often see um, actually elderly Chinese people gathering them 0:21:28.000 --> 0:21:29.639 in New York, and many times I've gone up to 0:21:29.720 --> 0:21:31.280 them and been like, what, how do you process it? 0:21:31.320 --> 0:21:33.639 What do you do with it? And they didn't speak 0:21:33.640 --> 0:21:35.760 any English, so I didn't learn anything that way. What's 0:21:35.760 --> 0:21:38.560 your exposure to that? I've often heard that every since, 0:21:38.640 --> 0:21:42.280 like like the Chinese women will gather the gek. I 0:21:42.280 --> 0:21:45.560 actually didn't know that. The My exposure to ginko was 0:21:45.640 --> 0:21:50.720 probably in high school. Um, just going to health food 0:21:50.720 --> 0:21:54.320 stores and seeing that in the shape of the leaf 0:21:54.680 --> 0:21:58.400 on a on a box of tea and starting to buy, 0:21:58.520 --> 0:22:02.920 like the teas are supposed to be kind of calming effects, supposedly, 0:22:03.480 --> 0:22:07.680 and then looking up around me and seeing the leaf 0:22:07.880 --> 0:22:11.240 like on falling from trees in New York, and so 0:22:11.280 --> 0:22:14.880 I really exactly and then I was like, I wonder 0:22:14.920 --> 0:22:18.200 if this is the same exact thing or something slightly different. 0:22:18.240 --> 0:22:21.399 And I do remember seeing these little kind of fresh 0:22:21.560 --> 0:22:23.000 you know, it's like a I don't know, it's kind 0:22:23.000 --> 0:22:27.400 of like an uh an acorn hazel nut size, kind 0:22:27.400 --> 0:22:30.800 of green outer shelf. It's fresh. And I just remember 0:22:30.840 --> 0:22:33.679 seeing those and wondering, like if I can pick them 0:22:33.760 --> 0:22:35.919 up and eat them like a squirrel, you know, but 0:22:36.000 --> 0:22:37.760 maybe it's nasty because it's New York City, so I 0:22:37.760 --> 0:22:41.800 shouldn't do that. So what would you define as elderly? 0:22:42.640 --> 0:22:49.160 Elderly Chinese woman? How far behind his crew? So she's 0:22:49.200 --> 0:22:56.960 got we'll check back in with your in forty years. 0:22:56.960 --> 0:23:02.520 You're gonna get a tax message. Are you picking? Well? Now, 0:23:02.560 --> 0:23:04.760 I might start. I might start real early the next 0:23:04.760 --> 0:23:06.440 time I go back to New York City. Let's see. 0:23:08.280 --> 0:23:12.560 So that did it? You guys like Lamb's Quarter and 0:23:13.160 --> 0:23:15.520 Lambs Quarters. We didn't see the station. We saw poor 0:23:15.560 --> 0:23:19.000 Man's Pepper. Um, we did see Lamb's Quarters. Um what 0:23:19.240 --> 0:23:21.280 we saw Kentucky coffee tree. I mean a lot of 0:23:21.280 --> 0:23:23.639 the I guess all those trees were planted by a 0:23:23.680 --> 0:23:26.520 human at some point. Um probably the poor Man's Pepper, 0:23:26.520 --> 0:23:28.680 the Lamb's Corridor, the raspberries were not and just sort 0:23:28.680 --> 0:23:30.320 of naturally ended up there, but I guess either way, 0:23:30.359 --> 0:23:32.600 it was sort of being able to identify a tree 0:23:33.240 --> 0:23:35.560 and then later seeing that tree again, especially Ginko below 0:23:35.640 --> 0:23:38.720 was kind of all over Manhattan. UM, that sort of 0:23:38.760 --> 0:23:40.679 just got me interested and just lets I wanted to 0:23:40.720 --> 0:23:43.119 learn everything about while that will funge I wanted to. 0:23:43.800 --> 0:23:45.640 I hadn't gotten into hunting yet, but it was sort 0:23:45.680 --> 0:23:49.800 of getting into you know, tracking and trapping and making 0:23:50.280 --> 0:23:54.480 everything from stone tools to wooden longbows, high tanning. Yeah. 0:23:54.520 --> 0:23:56.760 Living in Manhattan. Actually my dorm room I lived right 0:23:56.800 --> 0:24:00.719 off four Street, UM near Union Square Park, and like 0:24:00.760 --> 0:24:03.800 my dorman literally literally started having like you know, half 0:24:03.800 --> 0:24:07.240 made baskets and like bark shavings. It was a mess 0:24:07.480 --> 0:24:11.040 and some like dried animal hides. UM. My roommate was 0:24:11.080 --> 0:24:13.800 not happy. Was it like, was it motivated when you 0:24:13.800 --> 0:24:16.480 got into early now, I was motivated by a reverence 0:24:17.240 --> 0:24:20.800 um for like Native American skills. Was motivated by that 0:24:20.800 --> 0:24:22.800 you were going to go live in the woods. I 0:24:22.840 --> 0:24:25.240 think both of those were important. There's definitely that like 0:24:25.400 --> 0:24:30.359 romantic romanticization of the past and pre contact Native Americans 0:24:30.400 --> 0:24:32.520 and how they lived you know, quote unquote in harmony 0:24:32.560 --> 0:24:35.240 with nature and when you read a lot of that literature, 0:24:35.440 --> 0:24:40.240 you end up getting sort of infected with that romanticization. 0:24:40.560 --> 0:24:43.520 And I definitely thought about going off, maybe not living 0:24:43.520 --> 0:24:46.920 in the wild, but certainly exploring it, understanding it, learning 0:24:46.920 --> 0:24:50.160 how to you know, to identify all the wild critters 0:24:50.160 --> 0:24:52.240 in it, how to live off at least knowing how 0:24:52.240 --> 0:24:54.679 to live off of it was a big interest. And 0:24:54.720 --> 0:24:59.760 you got into braintand yes, Braintanding started picking up road kill. 0:25:00.440 --> 0:25:05.880 To my parents dismay, and how was that going? Um? 0:25:05.960 --> 0:25:09.080 I loved it. I mean, you know in suburbia is 0:25:09.280 --> 0:25:13.360 like great for roadkill, I mean the deer, hasta fed 0:25:13.400 --> 0:25:17.040 deer or littering the streets basically, And uh, I started 0:25:17.080 --> 0:25:20.159 picking up squirrels and making you know, raw hide songs 0:25:20.160 --> 0:25:23.960 out of their skins, and braintanding the deer, highest raccoons, 0:25:24.880 --> 0:25:31.280 not the underwear, just like long leather strips. Yeah, long 0:25:31.359 --> 0:25:34.160 leather strip I got excited for a minute. I suppose 0:25:34.280 --> 0:25:36.760 you could. But it was turning a tidy profit out 0:25:36.760 --> 0:25:40.159 of the dorm room and we could put some of 0:25:40.160 --> 0:25:43.600 that on the website. So were you learning how did 0:25:43.600 --> 0:25:47.640 you learn how to braintand like actually like using the Yeah, um, 0:25:47.680 --> 0:25:51.400 sometimes just from the animal I picked up, sometimes buying separately. Um, 0:25:51.560 --> 0:25:55.840 whatever brain was on sale at some ethnic market or 0:25:56.000 --> 0:26:01.560 grocery store. Um. All this before we went to med school. Yeah, 0:26:01.600 --> 0:26:03.399 this is all before I went to med. So I 0:26:03.400 --> 0:26:05.679 came to med school sort of with this kind of 0:26:05.760 --> 0:26:09.200 understanding of um, you know, of skin from the high 0:26:09.200 --> 0:26:12.720 tanner's perspective, and sort of just a deep interest in 0:26:12.800 --> 0:26:15.760 early humanity, how they lived, how they made everything, where 0:26:15.760 --> 0:26:18.679 they got their materials from, and how they used different 0:26:18.680 --> 0:26:21.040 parts of the animals body to make tools and other things. 0:26:21.480 --> 0:26:23.000 And were you eating a lot of wild game at 0:26:23.000 --> 0:26:25.520 that point? I was not. I did. I did have 0:26:26.080 --> 0:26:29.600 a few instances where some as you know, my friends 0:26:29.600 --> 0:26:32.520 and family knew of my strange interest in road killing. 0:26:33.400 --> 0:26:35.919 More than once someone called me about a deer that 0:26:36.000 --> 0:26:39.000 was not dead yet. Um by the time both times, 0:26:39.000 --> 0:26:40.840 by the time I got there, it was dead, and 0:26:40.960 --> 0:26:43.600 so I butchered them and ate them. What was the 0:26:43.680 --> 0:26:45.960 variety of road kill you were picking up? Squirrels, deer? 0:26:45.960 --> 0:26:48.680 Did you like, have any cats, dogs, coyotes, anything like that. No, 0:26:49.040 --> 0:26:53.119 raccoon's possums, although I guess I wasn't impressed with the first, 0:26:53.119 --> 0:26:55.160 so I didn't end up keeping it. But I would 0:26:55.160 --> 0:26:57.800 say raccoon, squirrels and white tailed deer were the big ones. 0:26:58.680 --> 0:27:01.480 And where were you in this tanning? Like in your 0:27:01.480 --> 0:27:05.360 dorm room? So a little bit in my parents garage 0:27:05.440 --> 0:27:08.680 and my parents backyard. And after a while they kind 0:27:08.680 --> 0:27:11.160 of stopped asking me what is that smell? Because they 0:27:11.200 --> 0:27:14.560 really didn't like hearing the answer. Um, But yeah, I had, 0:27:14.640 --> 0:27:17.120 you know, like my father came home from work one day, 0:27:17.160 --> 0:27:20.800 I was scraping the hair off squirrel hide in the garage, 0:27:20.960 --> 0:27:22.960 or you know, they'd go into the backyard and to 0:27:23.080 --> 0:27:25.600 be a deer hide and laced into a frame back there. 0:27:25.720 --> 0:27:29.240 Stuff like that. Yeah, I mean I loved it and 0:27:29.280 --> 0:27:31.480 still love it. I don't have as much time to 0:27:31.520 --> 0:27:34.119 do it, but it opened my eyes in many different ways. 0:27:34.640 --> 0:27:39.439 How familiar you were familiar as a youngster with kosher law? Correct, 0:27:39.480 --> 0:27:42.240 though I didn't follow it, But you're familiar with it, 0:27:42.440 --> 0:27:44.199 vaguely familiar with it. Now I know a bit more 0:27:44.240 --> 0:27:46.159 about you know a bit more about it. Are you 0:27:46.200 --> 0:27:47.960 familiar with I don't know if you'd call him a 0:27:48.040 --> 0:27:50.679 sect or what the hell you'd call the habbad? What 0:27:50.680 --> 0:27:52.720 would you call the habbad? Yeah? I mean it's one 0:27:52.760 --> 0:27:54.640 of the I don't know if sect is the word. 0:27:54.640 --> 0:27:57.879 It's one of the kinds of ultra Orthodox or it's like, 0:27:58.040 --> 0:28:01.520 it's kind of an organization of um that ultra Orthodox 0:28:01.600 --> 0:28:05.640 that tries to proselytize two Jews that are less religious, 0:28:05.760 --> 0:28:09.240 never to non Jews. Jews don't proselytize the non Jews. Yeah, 0:28:09.280 --> 0:28:11.760 So I was tagging along with a Jew who is 0:28:11.800 --> 0:28:16.480 being proselytized to by the Hubbad and I got so 0:28:16.720 --> 0:28:19.959 since I was there anyways, I asked a question, and 0:28:19.960 --> 0:28:22.040 I said, how would it? How would you go about? 0:28:22.400 --> 0:28:24.680 I'd like you to back this person up or elaborate 0:28:24.720 --> 0:28:29.720 on this. I said, how would someone who's keeping kosher 0:28:31.720 --> 0:28:37.440 how would they be able to consume wild game? He said, 0:28:37.480 --> 0:28:40.760 you'd have to catch it in the net and then 0:28:40.800 --> 0:28:47.040 bring it unharmed to a kosher slaughter. Is that is 0:28:47.080 --> 0:28:51.240 that your understanding? Can you explain why that is so? Um? 0:28:51.280 --> 0:28:54.600 There's many many rules in kash rout, which is kind 0:28:54.640 --> 0:28:56.360 of the collection of rules that we think of as 0:28:56.480 --> 0:28:59.840 you know, to produce kosher food. UM. Many many rules, 0:28:59.840 --> 0:29:02.200 like mind boggling number of rules that you have to follow. 0:29:02.320 --> 0:29:04.440 But one of the big ones is that all blood 0:29:04.560 --> 0:29:07.200 must be drained out of the animal. Um. So there's 0:29:07.200 --> 0:29:09.080 some rules in Kosher where let's say, you don't eat 0:29:09.120 --> 0:29:12.320 pork because it's quote unquote dirty, but you don't eat 0:29:12.320 --> 0:29:15.520 blood because it's so holy it should be left for God. 0:29:15.720 --> 0:29:18.880 And some say that's left. Yeah. So it's sort of 0:29:18.920 --> 0:29:21.520 the spirit, the animating force of the animal or the 0:29:21.600 --> 0:29:24.239 human is in the blood. And so actually, you know, 0:29:24.720 --> 0:29:29.080 in before I'm not sure what year, but many centuries 0:29:29.080 --> 0:29:33.080 ago millennia, go Jews ritually slaughtered animals and the big 0:29:33.120 --> 0:29:36.440 temples in Jerusalem. People describe it as look running with 0:29:36.520 --> 0:29:39.200 volumes of blood. Um. So some think it might be 0:29:39.280 --> 0:29:41.840 left over, even though we don't ritually slaughter in that 0:29:41.880 --> 0:29:46.520 way anymore. Um something maybe that blood letting or getting 0:29:46.520 --> 0:29:48.760 all the blood out is part of the it's sort 0:29:48.800 --> 0:29:51.160 of left over from that ancient tradition of of slaughtering 0:29:51.360 --> 0:29:54.720 and it was offering to God. I gotta interrupt because 0:29:55.200 --> 0:29:57.400 I wish we had that Remember that picture someone sent 0:29:57.480 --> 0:30:00.200 to score in We're when we were on the when 0:30:00.240 --> 0:30:04.080 talk about Samaritans, bunch, what were they in? What the 0:30:04.080 --> 0:30:07.400 hell country were they in? Think where they had that 0:30:07.440 --> 0:30:10.520 place where you hang all the lambs and kill them. 0:30:10.520 --> 0:30:12.720 And they had those special troughs to collect all the 0:30:12.720 --> 0:30:16.640 blood and diverted into like a big master took that up. 0:30:16.720 --> 0:30:20.000 I wonder if that was if that was in the 0:30:20.080 --> 0:30:22.880 West Bank. Actually, I was kind of half paying attention 0:30:22.920 --> 0:30:28.680 to anyhow elaborate like blood collecting. Right well, Brad, I, right, well, 0:30:28.720 --> 0:30:30.440 you're getting rid of the blood in the case. In 0:30:30.440 --> 0:30:32.080 this case, so you would have to catch the animal, 0:30:32.160 --> 0:30:35.040 hang it upside down from its time quarters and slit 0:30:35.120 --> 0:30:38.520 its neck. Specifically, uh, someone trained to be what's called 0:30:38.520 --> 0:30:41.160 the show it would have to do the slaughtering. Um. 0:30:41.280 --> 0:30:43.800 That's how you say that word. Yeah, And usually that's 0:30:43.800 --> 0:30:46.680 a rabbi, though not always so. For instance, in in 0:30:46.720 --> 0:30:49.840 a halal, the sort of Muslim version of Kosher, any 0:30:49.920 --> 0:30:52.880 Muslim can do the actual slicing of the neck, but 0:30:53.000 --> 0:30:56.120 in in Kasha has to be someone trained to do that. 0:30:56.360 --> 0:31:01.840 So if you're if you're slaughtering cattle, you're not obligated 0:31:01.880 --> 0:31:04.160 to get that thing hanging up by it's hawk alive? 0:31:04.240 --> 0:31:07.600 Are you you are? You have been to a Kosher slaughterhouse. 0:31:07.640 --> 0:31:10.000 They put chains around the back legs and lift it 0:31:10.080 --> 0:31:12.880 up and the cows moving its face off and then 0:31:12.920 --> 0:31:15.640 if someone gets in there with a knife about this long, 0:31:15.920 --> 0:31:17.840 you would be like a knife fighter to get in there. 0:31:19.200 --> 0:31:24.240 I don't know, perfect man, that part can like hypothetically 0:31:24.360 --> 0:31:26.240 be botched as well, right, Like if they don't have 0:31:26.280 --> 0:31:29.800 a clean knife swipe that animal then is not kosher 0:31:29.840 --> 0:31:31.600 if it doesn't die a certain way within a certain 0:31:31.640 --> 0:31:34.600 amount of time. Is that correct? I believe the rules 0:31:34.640 --> 0:31:36.280 do stipulate that. Yet it has to be like a 0:31:36.360 --> 0:31:39.920 very sharp knife. It has to be very quick and clean. Um. 0:31:40.680 --> 0:31:42.680 But yeah, so getting the blood out of the meat 0:31:42.760 --> 0:31:44.240 is a big part of it. Even the liver. You 0:31:44.280 --> 0:31:46.880 actually have to to take the liver out of the 0:31:46.920 --> 0:31:49.720 body is not kosher. Even if that animal is kosher, 0:31:50.080 --> 0:31:54.000 you have to actually cook it over a fire, uh 0:31:54.000 --> 0:31:56.280 in some way to get the blood to all drain out. 0:31:56.360 --> 0:31:59.960 And only then is it kosher to eat what It's true? 0:32:00.920 --> 0:32:03.200 Explain it to me again. You have to get the 0:32:03.280 --> 0:32:04.840 blood out of the liver. You know. The liver is 0:32:04.840 --> 0:32:06.760 a very bloody organ, like when it sits in your 0:32:06.760 --> 0:32:08.560 fridge every day it does a new pool of blood 0:32:08.560 --> 0:32:12.360 around it. Um, So you have to actually slowly cook it. 0:32:12.440 --> 0:32:16.480 So buying raw kosher liver these days is basically impossible 0:32:16.480 --> 0:32:19.640 in the US. It has it's already slightly cooked and 0:32:19.920 --> 0:32:21.760 to get the blood to drip out can't be cooked 0:32:21.760 --> 0:32:23.719 in a pan because the blood would then sit around it. 0:32:23.960 --> 0:32:26.360 They cook it on like a great basically, so all 0:32:26.360 --> 0:32:28.680 the blood can drip out of it. So they're not 0:32:28.760 --> 0:32:32.160 eating blood sausage. Definitely not only God can do that, 0:32:32.200 --> 0:32:35.920 I guess. And then just to stay on this subject 0:32:35.960 --> 0:32:39.320 for a second, on the kosher slaughter subject, is there 0:32:40.120 --> 0:32:43.600 is there's an inspection of the animal then to determine 0:32:43.960 --> 0:32:48.160 had it been healthy correct, correct, And it focuses on 0:32:48.200 --> 0:32:51.760 the lungs. And there used to be actually a more 0:32:51.760 --> 0:32:54.600 involved process where you have to check I forget if 0:32:54.640 --> 0:32:58.600 it's seventeen or twenty something body parts. But sometime in 0:32:58.640 --> 0:33:01.680 the Middle Ages, all the grabbis decided that we can 0:33:01.720 --> 0:33:03.400 just check the lungs and they'll sort of be a 0:33:03.400 --> 0:33:06.040 proxy for the health of the whole animal. So when 0:33:06.040 --> 0:33:09.200 you're in the kosher slaughterhouses, a bunch of slaughterhouse workers, 0:33:09.280 --> 0:33:12.200 you know, moving the half carcasses along the ceiling and 0:33:12.560 --> 0:33:15.200 the racks that are moving along the ceiling, and then 0:33:15.200 --> 0:33:17.600 there's a bunch of show hits and rabbis that are 0:33:17.600 --> 0:33:20.040 looking at the lungs. So after they cut the animal 0:33:20.040 --> 0:33:22.120 and open its chest cavity, they pull the lungs out, 0:33:22.120 --> 0:33:23.760 bring it over to a table and look at the 0:33:23.760 --> 0:33:26.520 surface of it to see if there's any white scar 0:33:26.680 --> 0:33:29.600 tissue on it, which would be evidence of pneumonia or 0:33:29.640 --> 0:33:32.880 other lung infections in the past. And these are religious figures, 0:33:32.920 --> 0:33:37.080 not not food specialists, correct, But there it is. It's 0:33:37.120 --> 0:33:40.480 a career path you can go on. Many rabbis do 0:33:40.600 --> 0:33:43.640 choose to get trained as a show hit to then 0:33:44.040 --> 0:33:46.560 go into that industry as well, like a side hustle. 0:33:46.600 --> 0:33:48.760 I suppose. I like to imagine that they all started 0:33:48.880 --> 0:33:55.280 the same and uh, there's some back and forth and like, hey, 0:33:55.280 --> 0:33:58.200 so what are you gonna do? Right? And I feel 0:33:58.200 --> 0:34:01.320 like I would be much more on the um slaughterhouse 0:34:01.360 --> 0:34:07.600 floor path then um, you know, having a congregation of sorts, right. 0:34:07.640 --> 0:34:09.840 It's like choosing your medical specialty. It's like do you 0:34:09.840 --> 0:34:12.120 want to be hanging around cows hanging upside down or 0:34:12.200 --> 0:34:16.440 just want to do bar mitzvas for suburban brass rightly? 0:34:16.480 --> 0:34:20.200 And and this slaughterhouse equipment, he's not doublings like non 0:34:20.320 --> 0:34:23.279 kosher slaughter house equipment as well, right, like they're they're 0:34:23.280 --> 0:34:26.600 not doing all the same process with meat that's also 0:34:26.640 --> 0:34:29.200 going to the local grocery store that's non kosher. No, 0:34:29.320 --> 0:34:31.799 you can't. You cannot have any non kosher animals in 0:34:31.840 --> 0:34:34.279 that facility at all. Although, to be fair, the one 0:34:34.320 --> 0:34:37.000 that I wrote about in my book the Slaughterhouse, another 0:34:37.040 --> 0:34:38.680 time I went there and there was a pig hanging 0:34:38.719 --> 0:34:40.400 on the side and the guy's like, you didn't see that. 0:34:41.520 --> 0:34:44.359 What was going on with that? I don't know, just 0:34:44.520 --> 0:34:47.439 you know, he had the walk in freezer space and 0:34:47.560 --> 0:34:50.080 someone with a pig wanted to put it there, and 0:34:50.120 --> 0:34:54.239 so he's like, wow, And I think that. I think 0:34:54.320 --> 0:34:56.760 that happens a lot. Like let's say you slice the honestly, 0:34:56.800 --> 0:34:59.239 you slice, the animal doesn't die right away, like I'm 0:34:59.239 --> 0:35:03.239 sure sometimes they're out, you know, sl sliced lfe again. Um, 0:35:03.280 --> 0:35:06.000 that's why a lot of there's so many gradations of 0:35:06.040 --> 0:35:08.480 how strict you are, and there's a lot of fudging, 0:35:08.800 --> 0:35:11.399 which is why some very religious people will not eat 0:35:11.880 --> 0:35:15.080 even something stamped kosher, depending who stamped it, they might 0:35:15.120 --> 0:35:17.600 not eat it because they don't trust that person or 0:35:17.600 --> 0:35:25.400 this person. Yeah, exactly, your your your knife man. Would 0:35:25.400 --> 0:35:30.080 he also then be more uh, sought after to perform 0:35:30.120 --> 0:35:33.920 a bress good? Good question. It's like I did a 0:35:33.960 --> 0:35:40.600 couple of thousand kosher beef. Different technique, also different knife size, 0:35:42.920 --> 0:35:53.040 machete down. Uh. You got into buying hole animals? Yes, um, 0:35:53.160 --> 0:35:56.600 not live but actually that same slaughterhouse they had um 0:35:56.640 --> 0:36:00.759 they would do lamb or sheep and go, And so 0:36:00.800 --> 0:36:03.720 I picked up a whole animal from them several times. 0:36:03.719 --> 0:36:07.040 That was while I was in medical school studying anatomy. 0:36:07.080 --> 0:36:09.359 But were you doing it just because we like, why 0:36:09.960 --> 0:36:13.080 did you know what was going to tie into your career? No? 0:36:13.200 --> 0:36:15.640 I mean I was just curious. I guess I'm still 0:36:15.680 --> 0:36:17.439 not sure it has tied into my career. I guess 0:36:17.480 --> 0:36:20.439 just right writing made it tied into my career. Coming 0:36:20.440 --> 0:36:22.920 on podcasts like this made it tie in. But I 0:36:22.920 --> 0:36:24.960 think I was just curious. I mean I was, I 0:36:25.000 --> 0:36:28.239 was sort of fascinated. So once I started dissecting the 0:36:28.360 --> 0:36:31.120 human in anatomy lab in medical school, like on the 0:36:31.120 --> 0:36:34.040 first day of medical school, we start the process in 0:36:34.080 --> 0:36:36.960 this class called anatomy lab. You meet your cadaver and 0:36:37.000 --> 0:36:39.720 start dissecting. They're they're laying face down on the metal 0:36:39.719 --> 0:36:42.880 gurney and you start with learning the superficial muscles of 0:36:42.960 --> 0:36:46.080 the back, like the lats or latismus, Dorsey and others. 0:36:46.080 --> 0:36:48.960 So um, but that first day for me, it was 0:36:49.120 --> 0:36:52.479 very eye opening. It was really revelatory in some ways. 0:36:52.520 --> 0:36:56.880 I just absolutely loved it. And actually there's a triangle roast. Yeah. Well, 0:36:57.040 --> 0:36:58.880 so I didn't know too much about different kinds of 0:36:58.920 --> 0:37:01.279 cuts yet, but I did decide on that first day 0:37:01.320 --> 0:37:03.759 to donate my own body to that same process, like 0:37:03.840 --> 0:37:06.360 to donate it to a medical school to be dissected 0:37:06.400 --> 0:37:09.000 by medical students, just because I was super fascinated with 0:37:09.040 --> 0:37:14.040 the process. Does every med student cut into a person nowadays? Less? So, 0:37:14.200 --> 0:37:18.839 there's actually some really very high quality virtual dissection programs. Um, 0:37:18.880 --> 0:37:21.560 there's actually this digital It's the size of a table, 0:37:22.000 --> 0:37:23.800 the size of a metal gurney lying in front of you. 0:37:24.239 --> 0:37:28.480 It's called the anatomage and uh, you literally can go 0:37:28.640 --> 0:37:32.240 through it, um to an amazing degree that I before 0:37:32.400 --> 0:37:35.600 I saw that, I thought that virtual could be no substitute. 0:37:35.600 --> 0:37:37.560 But after I saw that, honestly not sure. But I'm 0:37:37.560 --> 0:37:40.800 still very glad I got to cut open an actual person. 0:37:41.000 --> 0:37:43.719 What's that feel like? Man? Does it feel like like sinful, 0:37:43.920 --> 0:37:47.359 Like what's that feel like? I think it's the most 0:37:47.360 --> 0:37:50.279 surprising thing was how quickly everyone got used to it. 0:37:50.560 --> 0:37:53.120 I think everyone was super worried when they were going 0:37:53.160 --> 0:37:55.880 in like holy crap, day one, like here's a dead body, 0:37:55.880 --> 0:37:58.520 now start cutting it apart, and like I think within 0:37:58.520 --> 0:38:01.040 a week everyone it was just like another day at 0:38:01.040 --> 0:38:04.560 the office. Honestly, which is a sign? Who was your person? 0:38:05.560 --> 0:38:09.920 Some overweight old man? That's what I was gonna ask. 0:38:10.000 --> 0:38:13.080 There's no way for you to get any like history 0:38:13.120 --> 0:38:16.520 of that, like getting curious about that person and figuring 0:38:16.560 --> 0:38:18.719 out who they were and what their deal was. No, 0:38:18.880 --> 0:38:21.200 I mean they're I mean to be graphic. Their face 0:38:21.280 --> 0:38:24.799 is sort of smushed um and just because they're laying 0:38:24.800 --> 0:38:27.799 face down on the kourney um and so their face 0:38:27.880 --> 0:38:30.960 is sort of like stuck in that smushed uh. Not 0:38:31.080 --> 0:38:33.359 that seeing them would tell you who it is, but 0:38:34.760 --> 0:38:38.440 not fresh. So they're embombed. So they drain the blood 0:38:38.480 --> 0:38:42.000 out not too dissimilar from kosher meat, and then put 0:38:42.000 --> 0:38:44.680 a big hose into the big veins of the neck 0:38:44.960 --> 0:38:48.320 or upper chest and running you know, formaldehyde or whatever 0:38:48.360 --> 0:38:50.640 the latest version of formaldehyde is. So the body is 0:38:50.680 --> 0:38:54.640 generally preserved and smells like preservative, and you don't know 0:38:54.680 --> 0:38:57.279 where they came from, how they died. No, I mean 0:38:57.320 --> 0:38:59.399 you can tell, like you can see things. You can 0:38:59.440 --> 0:39:02.080 see medical evidence of disease. You know, Like my guy 0:39:02.200 --> 0:39:05.520 had bad coronary artery disease. Like literally the coronary arteries 0:39:05.560 --> 0:39:08.480 were like crunchy, you could crunch them with your hand, 0:39:09.520 --> 0:39:13.520 like calcification, which goes along with CORNERI just sort of 0:39:13.520 --> 0:39:16.920 spongy soft tissue like like muscle. Let's say, um, but 0:39:17.040 --> 0:39:19.360 things get calcified as the age, especially when you have 0:39:19.760 --> 0:39:23.000 hardening of the artery. The hardening is actually calcium being deposited. 0:39:23.440 --> 0:39:25.760 He also had like he was clearly a smoker based 0:39:25.760 --> 0:39:28.440 on the um the color of his lungs, which were 0:39:28.480 --> 0:39:32.319 like ash gray. Uh. And also they looked like emphysema. 0:39:32.400 --> 0:39:35.879 Emphysema lungs look like extra bubbly, kind of extra big 0:39:35.920 --> 0:39:39.320 and extra bubbly. Um, So he's a smoker, which probably 0:39:39.320 --> 0:39:42.160 contributed as coronary artery disease. And I don't know what 0:39:42.200 --> 0:39:44.560 he died of specifically, Like you could look at the 0:39:44.560 --> 0:39:47.160 heart and actually see evidence of a heart attack. You know, 0:39:47.239 --> 0:39:50.840 part of the heart muscle would die and turn another color. 0:39:50.960 --> 0:39:53.600 Depending on how long you live after the heart attack, 0:39:53.640 --> 0:39:56.200 it goes through color changes. You know, if you die 0:39:56.320 --> 0:39:58.800 right away, it would be stuck in that initial color, 0:39:58.880 --> 0:40:02.200 but if you live another ivors, it continues to remodel 0:40:02.200 --> 0:40:04.160 and scar, so you can't tell. I mean that's what 0:40:04.200 --> 0:40:06.759 pathologists do when they do an autopsy to find the 0:40:06.800 --> 0:40:08.480 cause of death. You know, you could cut open the 0:40:08.600 --> 0:40:11.239 lung arteries and find a huge clot in there and maybe, oh, 0:40:11.280 --> 0:40:13.600 they died of a pulmonary embolism. Did you check see 0:40:13.760 --> 0:40:16.600 were you able to check his stomach contents? I don't 0:40:16.640 --> 0:40:20.080 think we opened the No, we didn't open the g 0:40:20.239 --> 0:40:24.480 I tract. I've done that on animals many times now. 0:40:25.280 --> 0:40:28.960 Having no background in this um, it doesn't seem like 0:40:29.000 --> 0:40:32.319 this guy fits the profile somebody who normally donates their body. 0:40:32.320 --> 0:40:35.360 I would imagine those folks are like quite fit and 0:40:35.400 --> 0:40:37.480 proud of what they got going on, not not an 0:40:37.560 --> 0:40:42.440 overweight I think you're reading the let's let's hear right, 0:40:42.480 --> 0:40:46.399 like you want to show people donate their bodies. The body. 0:40:46.400 --> 0:40:52.320 I would imagine that's more likely where they're gonna remember 0:40:53.239 --> 0:40:55.760 appreciate it. Yeah, So what what is like the normal 0:40:55.800 --> 0:40:58.719 profile of the cadaver. Yeah. Don't you think the vein though, 0:40:59.120 --> 0:41:01.839 would want to keep it all to themselves. I think 0:41:01.840 --> 0:41:04.880 they'd want rooting around in there. I really let myself go. 0:41:04.960 --> 0:41:07.879 I think I'm gonna update my I'm gonna update my 0:41:08.000 --> 0:41:10.400 body donors ship on the back of my driver's license 0:41:10.400 --> 0:41:12.160 because I'm just not looking at my best. Thankfully we 0:41:12.239 --> 0:41:13.960 have someone here you can tell me if I'm right 0:41:14.040 --> 0:41:15.880 or wrong. So what's like the normal profile? I mean, 0:41:15.920 --> 0:41:18.360 all the bodies and it was probably about thirty bodies 0:41:18.400 --> 0:41:21.879 in that room, and they were all elderly, um so 0:41:22.400 --> 0:41:25.520 not not in the prime of life. I mean, I 0:41:25.560 --> 0:41:28.359 can't say any looked great, but I didn't really look 0:41:28.400 --> 0:41:32.040 at them. None of them caught your eye. I wasn't. 0:41:32.440 --> 0:41:35.040 I mean they all smelled terrible and look of course 0:41:35.040 --> 0:41:39.920 sort of gray, but definitely like my cadaver was very obedes. 0:41:40.080 --> 0:41:42.799 Like the layer of blubber on his back was you know, 0:41:42.840 --> 0:41:45.719 to three inches at least. And that made me think, 0:41:46.080 --> 0:41:48.560 while thinking I want to donate my body to this process, 0:41:48.560 --> 0:41:51.560 like I should really stay fit, um so that the 0:41:51.600 --> 0:41:54.280 medical students who are picking me up apart my carcass 0:41:54.320 --> 0:41:57.520 don't have to fat it's just you get grease spots 0:41:57.560 --> 0:41:59.919 all over her, the scrubs you're wearing his little bits 0:42:00.080 --> 0:42:02.480 fat ale over your gloves and on your scalpel and 0:42:02.520 --> 0:42:05.560 scissors and stuff. It's slippery, it's hard to you know, 0:42:05.640 --> 0:42:17.560 grab stuff. It really gets in the way. Here's something 0:42:17.600 --> 0:42:20.479 my I learned not too long ago, which is something 0:42:20.480 --> 0:42:23.000 I like to think about during these winter driving conditions, 0:42:23.480 --> 0:42:26.879 is that there's mobile cadaver labs. Did you know that? 0:42:27.160 --> 0:42:30.600 I don't know what that means. So they well like 0:42:30.719 --> 0:42:35.800 different facilities, right, they don't have the space two offer 0:42:35.920 --> 0:42:41.240 like full oh medical learning, they're right, And so there's 0:42:41.719 --> 0:42:45.960 companies that are mobile they like the book mobile, but 0:42:46.080 --> 0:42:52.000 with dead bodies exactly brody and occasionally like during like 0:42:52.040 --> 0:42:59.399 our ultra horrid, right horrible for the children, and you're like, oh, 0:42:59.440 --> 0:43:04.680 there's a set my laying over on its side. How 0:43:05.160 --> 0:43:07.879 like what level of dissection did you go to where 0:43:07.880 --> 0:43:09.719 you like peel them back all the skin and the 0:43:09.840 --> 0:43:12.960 muscle and get into the bone and like a breaking 0:43:13.160 --> 0:43:16.520 things down or yes, um, you know the first day 0:43:16.600 --> 0:43:18.600 was just the superficial muscles of the back, then the 0:43:18.600 --> 0:43:21.880 deeper muscles of the back um, and then maybe we 0:43:21.920 --> 0:43:23.520 turned them over and started doing you know, you do 0:43:23.560 --> 0:43:26.440 all the muscles first, you do the extremities. Um. The 0:43:26.520 --> 0:43:29.160 forearm is particularly interesting. You see all the muscles and 0:43:29.160 --> 0:43:31.400 the tendons, how they go down into the hand, and 0:43:31.440 --> 0:43:33.680 you really, you know, look like a puppet from that 0:43:33.719 --> 0:43:36.640 perspective of string puppet um. And then you know the 0:43:36.680 --> 0:43:39.560 head and the neck. We um we ended up. I 0:43:40.000 --> 0:43:43.080 think we saw the head down the middle to look 0:43:43.120 --> 0:43:45.480 at the cross section. And we also used a circular 0:43:45.480 --> 0:43:47.879 saw to like cut down each side of the chest 0:43:47.920 --> 0:43:50.400 and sort of lift the chest off like a plate, 0:43:50.440 --> 0:43:54.080 like a big plate to expose the lungs and heart. Um, 0:43:54.719 --> 0:43:58.600 regular circular saw. Yeah, just know what kind? I'm not 0:43:58.640 --> 0:44:00.480 even sure do you mean like that? You'd get it 0:44:00.520 --> 0:44:03.080 a hardware store. It looked pretty similar. It didn't say 0:44:03.080 --> 0:44:06.200 like Drama on it, but it did look similar and 0:44:06.239 --> 0:44:08.560 probably was a knockoff brand of that. Where do they 0:44:08.640 --> 0:44:11.680 drain the blood from on a could ever? Like into 0:44:14.480 --> 0:44:16.520 I think it's probably just the veins of the neck, 0:44:16.600 --> 0:44:20.120 the internal jugular or the subclavian, which are too um, 0:44:20.280 --> 0:44:22.360 the two big veins that joined together to make the 0:44:22.400 --> 0:44:25.840 superior vena cava. The superior vena cava is sort of 0:44:25.880 --> 0:44:27.719 deeper in the chest, so not as accessible, but the 0:44:27.719 --> 0:44:30.839 internal jugular is very easily accessible in the subclavian as well. 0:44:31.000 --> 0:44:33.600 We often put large i vs. Called central lines in 0:44:33.640 --> 0:44:36.480 those veins because they're pretty accessible. In the phemeral also 0:44:36.560 --> 0:44:39.120 kind of right there in the ingland O crease, you 0:44:39.120 --> 0:44:42.359 know where your leg meets your torso is another big 0:44:42.440 --> 0:44:46.000 vein drain from or get access to with a big ivy. 0:44:46.640 --> 0:44:48.120 You do what I wanted to ask you about. I 0:44:48.120 --> 0:44:50.200 didn't listen to you. You have to go on Fresh Air? 0:44:50.560 --> 0:44:52.360 I did. Was it Terry girls? So you have to 0:44:52.400 --> 0:44:58.000 settle for Dave Davis. It was Terry not knocking them, 0:44:58.080 --> 0:45:00.880 not not no, but my career to go. My career 0:45:00.920 --> 0:45:04.719 goals to go on Fresh Air. But I want to 0:45:04.719 --> 0:45:07.400 have the Terry girls. I know. I got very lucky. 0:45:08.400 --> 0:45:10.399 I didn't get to go into the studio even though 0:45:10.480 --> 0:45:13.759 she's in Philly. Then I live in West Philly. But 0:45:13.880 --> 0:45:19.160 the remote they're doing it remote. Yeah, just I never 0:45:19.160 --> 0:45:21.880 listened to it. We talked about, you know, anatomy and 0:45:21.960 --> 0:45:26.080 food quite a bit about different my experience of dissecting 0:45:26.080 --> 0:45:29.960 at Caldaver. Huh, maybe you could go on Fresh air 0:45:30.000 --> 0:45:42.400 and talk about dejah pooh pitch that just my career goal. Man. Um, 0:45:42.680 --> 0:45:46.840 talk about eating liver or like you point out that 0:45:46.880 --> 0:45:48.840 you can eat everything on a person except the teeth 0:45:49.000 --> 0:45:51.719 and the bones. Yeah, I mean they'll you know, if 0:45:51.719 --> 0:45:55.160 you try to bite them. Sorry sorry, not a person. 0:45:55.960 --> 0:45:57.759 I mean you could that do that too. It's like 0:45:57.800 --> 0:46:01.480 it's in imoral. But the nature is a creature is edible, 0:46:01.680 --> 0:46:05.240 barring the what well, I mean, anything that's gonna break 0:46:05.280 --> 0:46:07.520 your tooth or stabby in the esophagus when you try 0:46:07.560 --> 0:46:10.520 to swallow it. Um, that's the limiting factor. I mean, 0:46:10.520 --> 0:46:12.880 you can make a bone broth still, you could boil it, 0:46:12.920 --> 0:46:15.920 make the broth, you know, soften it. I mean some bones, 0:46:15.960 --> 0:46:18.400 as you know, are soft enough to just eat. Bigger 0:46:18.400 --> 0:46:21.359 bones not so much. I mean everything everything else or 0:46:21.400 --> 0:46:23.640 as what we call what we would call soft tissue 0:46:23.800 --> 0:46:26.600 is just that it's soft, like you can chew it 0:46:26.719 --> 0:46:29.399 up and swallow it. It might not be great, I mean, 0:46:29.400 --> 0:46:33.320 as long as it's not overtly toxic. Um. You know, 0:46:33.360 --> 0:46:36.480 I wouldn't eat like lungs filled with tuberculosis or something 0:46:36.520 --> 0:46:40.160 like that. But but yeah, everything's edible. I mean and 0:46:40.200 --> 0:46:42.239 when you when you look around the cuisines around the 0:46:42.239 --> 0:46:44.200 world and what body parts they have cooked. I mean 0:46:44.200 --> 0:46:46.680 people cook absolutely everything. This boy, it's not like a 0:46:46.680 --> 0:46:53.479 goofy question, but like, what is how different is meat 0:46:53.600 --> 0:46:59.520 like muscle from liver? Say? Very different? I mean in 0:46:59.600 --> 0:47:02.000 compass a shie, it's different looking at it. It's different 0:47:02.000 --> 0:47:04.440 on the microscopic level. It's different in terms of what 0:47:04.520 --> 0:47:07.400 it's made of. I mean, the muscle fibers that comprise 0:47:07.480 --> 0:47:11.799 most of meat are just you know, protein laid out 0:47:11.800 --> 0:47:15.400 in that linear arrangement to contract and create force. And 0:47:15.440 --> 0:47:16.960 the liver is kind of just like a bunch of 0:47:16.960 --> 0:47:20.839 cells and veins and arteries and bile ducts. So it's 0:47:20.840 --> 0:47:26.680 pretty different. Tastes different too. Oh yeah, uh, but you 0:47:27.120 --> 0:47:30.399 enjoy eating it? Yeah. I never liked it as a kid, 0:47:30.600 --> 0:47:32.560 so just you know, I grew up with my family 0:47:32.920 --> 0:47:35.040 eat ate a lot of chopped liver on every holiday, 0:47:35.040 --> 0:47:37.759 and I thought it was absolutely gross. And also I 0:47:37.840 --> 0:47:40.920 never like meat. I never thought beyond that that it's 0:47:40.960 --> 0:47:42.600 gross and I don't want And I never thought, oh, 0:47:42.640 --> 0:47:44.600 this is a liver that came from the abdomen of 0:47:44.640 --> 0:47:46.520 an animal, and I have a very similar organ in 0:47:46.640 --> 0:47:49.319 my abdomen, and how how interesting I want to learn 0:47:49.320 --> 0:47:53.319 more like chopped liver on toast or on crackers or 0:47:53.400 --> 0:47:58.400 just spoon straight, which is totally you know, acceptable, and 0:47:58.600 --> 0:48:01.080 I do that too. So now now I learned to 0:48:01.160 --> 0:48:05.200 like it through through medical school learning all about the liver. 0:48:05.320 --> 0:48:06.879 I mean, you just learned so much about the liver. 0:48:06.920 --> 0:48:09.200 I've probably forgotten more about the liver than I know 0:48:09.320 --> 0:48:12.719 right now wherever we'll know. And and that got me 0:48:12.760 --> 0:48:16.319 fascinated that, oh, this, you know, this muck that my 0:48:16.400 --> 0:48:18.719 family likes to spread on crackers, there is the same 0:48:19.160 --> 0:48:22.360 incredible organ that lives inside of us and inside of 0:48:22.400 --> 0:48:25.040 animals and does a million and one even more than 0:48:25.080 --> 0:48:26.960 other organs. The liver does a million and one things 0:48:27.000 --> 0:48:30.880 to keep us healthy from moment to moment. And and 0:48:30.920 --> 0:48:34.160 then that becomes liver or becomes something edible, or you're 0:48:34.160 --> 0:48:36.920 eating the exact same thing that that thing is in life. 0:48:36.960 --> 0:48:39.120 And so that realization got me interested, and then I 0:48:39.200 --> 0:48:41.200 learned to like it just by trying it and trying 0:48:41.200 --> 0:48:46.040 it again. People point out that what people who don't 0:48:46.080 --> 0:48:49.319 like liver or who think you shouldn't eat liver will 0:48:49.320 --> 0:48:51.760 point out, why would you eat a thing whose job 0:48:51.840 --> 0:48:58.600 it is to filter impurities out of your body, you know, 0:48:58.880 --> 0:49:01.520 which is a great question, right, Well, so it's not 0:49:01.640 --> 0:49:04.719 totally accurate. I mean, the liver does metabolize a lot 0:49:04.719 --> 0:49:08.239 of toxins, so for instance, drinking alcohol or taking two 0:49:08.320 --> 0:49:10.359 high dose as a tylan all, you know, things that 0:49:10.640 --> 0:49:13.279 toxins that come from the outside that we ingest. The 0:49:13.360 --> 0:49:16.640 liver is responsible for detoxifying that. And the liver can 0:49:16.680 --> 0:49:19.439 be injured in the process of detoxifying it. That's why 0:49:19.480 --> 0:49:21.800 it is injured, let's say in the tilean all overdose, 0:49:22.280 --> 0:49:24.960 because it's the one detoxifying it and all those sort 0:49:25.000 --> 0:49:28.240 of radicals that are produced injure it. But that doesn't 0:49:28.239 --> 0:49:30.600 mean that that liver has that toxin in it, and 0:49:30.640 --> 0:49:33.000 if you eat it, you will be you know, you 0:49:33.040 --> 0:49:36.680 will be poisoned. Um And even the liver processes toxins 0:49:36.680 --> 0:49:39.400 that we ourselves make, like we turn over all the 0:49:39.440 --> 0:49:42.440 protein in our body constantly. There's a constant turnover, and 0:49:42.480 --> 0:49:45.000 when you break down protein, you create ammonia. It's just 0:49:45.080 --> 0:49:48.360 a natural byproduct because of proteins, the the molecule with 0:49:48.440 --> 0:49:51.080 nitrogen in it. Right, Carbs and fat do not have nitrogen, 0:49:51.120 --> 0:49:53.720 but protein is the nitrogen containing molecule that were mainly 0:49:54.360 --> 0:49:56.640 made of and so by breaking that down you end 0:49:56.680 --> 0:49:59.600 up with ammonia, which injures your liver, injures your brain, 0:50:00.320 --> 0:50:02.279 can kill you if it gets too high. And so 0:50:02.320 --> 0:50:05.480 it's the liver's job to detoxify that. Um, the liver 0:50:05.560 --> 0:50:07.360 can be injured by it as well, because it's the 0:50:07.360 --> 0:50:09.680 one that's doing the detoxification. But that does not mean 0:50:09.719 --> 0:50:12.399 that eating it will poison you. I mean that being said, 0:50:12.480 --> 0:50:14.480 some things are also stored in the liver, which I 0:50:14.480 --> 0:50:17.720 think that's the that's the question, is like some heavy 0:50:17.719 --> 0:50:19.919 metals and other things can be stored in the liver, 0:50:20.000 --> 0:50:23.279 and so you might not want to eat those. Why 0:50:23.280 --> 0:50:26.400 why why would it be that? Like you shoot a 0:50:26.480 --> 0:50:30.600 yearling white tail and the livers like super mild, not 0:50:30.680 --> 0:50:34.560 real strong flavors taste good, But then you shoot a 0:50:34.640 --> 0:50:38.719 six year old buck and the flavor is just way 0:50:38.800 --> 0:50:42.800 stronger and not as pleasant. Is it just stuff building 0:50:42.880 --> 0:50:45.920 up over years? Because you said, you know, it's it's 0:50:46.000 --> 0:50:49.799 detoxifying in some capacity. So are there things that are 0:50:49.840 --> 0:50:53.120 building up in the liver that cause it to taste 0:50:53.200 --> 0:50:55.920 much different? That's a great question. I do I do 0:50:56.000 --> 0:50:58.480 think that is true. You know, older animals, the liver's 0:50:58.880 --> 0:51:02.600 heart like um stronger in flavor and sometimes tougher in texture. 0:51:03.200 --> 0:51:05.719 And I don't know why exactly that is. It could 0:51:05.719 --> 0:51:08.440 also be a normal part of aging, like muscle also 0:51:08.520 --> 0:51:11.600 becomes more tough as you age due to things like 0:51:11.640 --> 0:51:14.680 collage and cross linking and other things, so it could 0:51:14.680 --> 0:51:16.759 be part of the normal aging process of Also knows 0:51:16.800 --> 0:51:20.000 like chicken livers are much softer and almost like drippy. 0:51:20.080 --> 0:51:22.200 If you put a bunch of chicken livers on a skewer, 0:51:22.239 --> 0:51:24.680 they're almost like dripping off of it as where like 0:51:24.680 --> 0:51:28.040 a even a young calves liver is not that drippy, 0:51:28.200 --> 0:51:31.839 which is more solid. I'm not totally sure why that is. 0:51:33.000 --> 0:51:38.480 What about eating kidneys, I think they're good. I just 0:51:38.560 --> 0:51:41.279 gotta snip off that little triangle where the renal artery 0:51:41.280 --> 0:51:43.839 and renal vein to the organ. But people say, when 0:51:43.880 --> 0:51:47.600 you eat kidneys, you're eating piss. I don't think that's true. 0:51:47.640 --> 0:51:50.799 Well it's not true. I mean the similar to the liver, 0:51:51.040 --> 0:51:54.040 as we discussed, you know, the your the kidneys make urine. 0:51:54.040 --> 0:51:57.359 They get blood through the renal artery, extract things into 0:51:57.440 --> 0:52:00.360 the urine, and then whatever's left overflows back out to 0:52:00.400 --> 0:52:03.680 the systemic circulation through the renal vein. There's not much 0:52:03.760 --> 0:52:06.200 storage for urine in the kidney. It's not like the 0:52:06.239 --> 0:52:08.200 bladders up there in the kidney, right, there's just a 0:52:08.239 --> 0:52:11.560 few little beginnings of what will coalescent to the eurotor, 0:52:11.640 --> 0:52:13.640 which is the tube that brings urine from the kidney 0:52:13.640 --> 0:52:17.080 to the bladder. So there's very minimal space for urine. 0:52:17.120 --> 0:52:19.440 It doesn't really sit in the liver, sort of drains 0:52:19.440 --> 0:52:23.040 out immediately, y yes, sorry, in the kidney and whatever 0:52:23.120 --> 0:52:25.200 is left probably when you take it out of the animal. 0:52:25.239 --> 0:52:27.960 Now that the the urtor is like severed, when you 0:52:28.000 --> 0:52:30.080 take it out of the animal, whatever little bit is 0:52:30.120 --> 0:52:34.080 in there probably drips out immediately. Have you yourself or 0:52:34.080 --> 0:52:39.759 did you ever encounter anybody who had eaten a fetus? Um? No, 0:52:40.320 --> 0:52:42.840 but I am curious about that. I know there's a 0:52:42.880 --> 0:52:47.400 Filipino dish called bullute, and and I understand some of 0:52:47.440 --> 0:52:51.560 the plains Indians particularly liked what was the fetus? What 0:52:51.600 --> 0:52:53.879 was the fetus from that? You ate? Blue? Is you're 0:52:53.920 --> 0:52:59.600 eating a um embryonic duck? Oh? The Chinese have a 0:52:59.680 --> 0:53:05.040 thing that with chicken and they the I like if 0:53:05.080 --> 0:53:08.200 if the if the egg would normally hatch at twenty 0:53:08.239 --> 0:53:13.000 seven days, you're getting you know, my numbers are off. 0:53:13.080 --> 0:53:16.080 Let's say that egg would hatch a days. You know, 0:53:16.239 --> 0:53:21.279 there's fifteen day ballue, there's twenty day ballue, and you're 0:53:21.480 --> 0:53:23.239 when you're eating it, you got you could even be 0:53:23.320 --> 0:53:26.200 so late in the development that you're And this is 0:53:26.200 --> 0:53:28.960 a popular dish in the Philippines, and they also kind 0:53:28.960 --> 0:53:31.440 of like to serve it to outsiders to make them 0:53:31.480 --> 0:53:34.239 squirm a little bit. So you're always getting presented with 0:53:34.239 --> 0:53:37.759 with embryonic ducks and you'll be eating it and there's 0:53:37.800 --> 0:53:40.040 like little kind of like you know, there's like bone 0:53:40.080 --> 0:53:42.640 and starting to solidify inside there. I know I didn't 0:53:42.680 --> 0:53:45.840 enjoy it, But you never encounter anybody who was eating 0:53:46.239 --> 0:53:50.319 the fet is from a mammal um. No, I never did. 0:53:50.360 --> 0:53:54.320 I did actually remember in Iceland gathered some wild goose 0:53:54.320 --> 0:53:56.600 eggs and boiled them and there were tiny little birds 0:53:56.600 --> 0:54:00.040 inside that we just crunched on through. Um. But I 0:54:00.320 --> 0:54:03.120 have read that some of the planes bison hunting Native 0:54:03.120 --> 0:54:07.080 Americans eight fetus um. I got to think of it 0:54:07.120 --> 0:54:10.799 as superveal. It must be delicious. Yeah, there was a 0:54:10.840 --> 0:54:14.080 few dishes I've stumbled into and reading about that. The 0:54:14.480 --> 0:54:21.360 thought we're interesting is one, uh, from calves getting the 0:54:21.440 --> 0:54:26.240 curdled mother's milk from the stomachs of calves that are nursing. 0:54:27.320 --> 0:54:29.920 Is that the same as marrow gut? I don't know, No. 0:54:30.360 --> 0:54:33.160 From the chuck wagon. Um, there is like there's a 0:54:33.280 --> 0:54:36.359 dish I think Mexican dish called trepas de lech, which 0:54:36.440 --> 0:54:41.280 is intestine with partially digested milk in it from from youngsters, 0:54:41.280 --> 0:54:44.279 from youngsters. Yeah, And there's also in there's this like 0:54:45.000 --> 0:54:48.960 the chuck wagons, which used to follow the cowboys around Texas. 0:54:49.000 --> 0:54:50.759 I guess they used to cook for them. And there 0:54:50.840 --> 0:54:53.080 was a dish called Son of a Bitch stew that 0:54:53.200 --> 0:54:56.080 supposedly had this ingredient called marrow gut, which is a 0:54:56.160 --> 0:54:58.759 similar It looked like marrow I gather because it was 0:54:58.760 --> 0:55:01.200 sort of a tube filled with this partially digested milk. 0:55:01.840 --> 0:55:04.120 So I'm on the sort of researching this to figure 0:55:04.160 --> 0:55:05.800 out what it is. Some people say it's a little 0:55:05.800 --> 0:55:08.600 tube that connected the third stomach to the fourth stomach, 0:55:09.200 --> 0:55:10.840 but then in the same breath they'll say it's the 0:55:10.840 --> 0:55:12.920 same as traps lech. And if you ever look up 0:55:12.920 --> 0:55:15.160 a YouTube video someone cooking trapast to let. It is 0:55:15.200 --> 0:55:18.160 not a little tube, it's a really long, clearly intestine, 0:55:18.360 --> 0:55:20.960 so I'm not totally sure what that is. We had 0:55:21.080 --> 0:55:24.200 somebody who wrote in um to the podcast that they 0:55:24.200 --> 0:55:26.799 had taken the fetus from a cow elk that they 0:55:26.800 --> 0:55:30.120 had killed in the winter, and they described it as 0:55:30.120 --> 0:55:32.040 though they were they had air in their mouth when 0:55:32.080 --> 0:55:34.319 they were eating it. It was so tender and like 0:55:34.360 --> 0:55:38.680 almost non existent that they they were just chewing on air. Incredible. 0:55:39.000 --> 0:55:42.200 I guess that. I think fetuses and feces might be 0:55:42.400 --> 0:55:48.360 the last frontier for anatomical cuisine. Talk about why you 0:55:48.360 --> 0:55:51.640 can't eat long in America or like why you can't 0:55:51.760 --> 0:55:56.120 sell why it's illegal to sell long in America, But 0:55:56.120 --> 0:55:58.080 they're eating it all over the not all over the world. 0:55:58.640 --> 0:56:02.040 Let me let's start this way. Who eats law um? 0:56:02.080 --> 0:56:04.280 Everyone but the US? Now. I think it's also legal 0:56:04.280 --> 0:56:07.920 in Canada actually, but so common things. You'll find it 0:56:07.920 --> 0:56:11.840 in our in hagus. It's an ingredient in haggis from Scotland, 0:56:12.880 --> 0:56:17.000 which is one of the UK's biggest culinary exports besides 0:56:17.040 --> 0:56:20.320 Scotch whiskey. Um, which is why they want to overturn 0:56:20.360 --> 0:56:22.640 the law. In the US, there's like because when they 0:56:22.680 --> 0:56:26.440 send their hags over here, they have through a long 0:56:26.560 --> 0:56:30.000 free hags. Correct. So they the US government said either 0:56:30.080 --> 0:56:33.960 submit a scientific brief that shows with rigorous studies that 0:56:34.080 --> 0:56:38.440 lungs are not dangerous to ingest, or create a haggis 0:56:38.560 --> 0:56:40.600 recipe that does not contain lungs. And so obviously they 0:56:40.600 --> 0:56:43.040 went with the ladder since it's much cheaper to do 0:56:43.120 --> 0:56:47.880 that and sub oh yeah, big time, especially like to Canada. 0:56:47.880 --> 0:56:50.759 In the US there's a big you know, descendant of 0:56:50.800 --> 0:56:55.200 Scottish immigrant population. I'm not they think they'd be super 0:56:55.239 --> 0:56:58.359 interested in haggess. I guess I'm not so sure. But well, 0:56:58.440 --> 0:57:00.239 the only time I've had it was at a abby 0:57:00.280 --> 0:57:04.080 Burns festival in the US and they had a hagas 0:57:04.080 --> 0:57:06.640 and it wasn't even in the stomach really, it was 0:57:06.640 --> 0:57:08.680 in like a bag of some sort and no lungs 0:57:08.680 --> 0:57:12.560 in it. Probably what's the long substitute? Then, that's a 0:57:12.600 --> 0:57:15.560 good question that might be proprietary, though I'm not totally 0:57:15.640 --> 0:57:17.520 sure what they do. I guess I've heard that lungs 0:57:17.560 --> 0:57:21.840 provide this traditional this desired crumbly texture. To guess that 0:57:22.520 --> 0:57:26.880 people swear By, And there's somebody in the Hagas marketing 0:57:26.880 --> 0:57:29.960 world sitting over there going, if we can only overturn 0:57:30.040 --> 0:57:34.920 this law in the US, sales are gonna explode, right 0:57:36.240 --> 0:57:40.240 dollar bills in his eyes that demands. That's what they think. 0:57:40.600 --> 0:57:43.320 I've like, we've all pulled a bunch of lungs out 0:57:43.320 --> 0:57:47.560 of various big game animals, and it's hard for me 0:57:47.600 --> 0:57:49.800 to imagine, like what would happen to it when you 0:57:49.840 --> 0:57:51.480 cook it? Like if you took a chunk of a 0:57:51.520 --> 0:57:54.080 deer lung the size of like a piece of pie 0:57:54.160 --> 0:57:56.640 and threw it in a frying pan, Like I can 0:57:56.640 --> 0:58:01.040 feel that question, what would happen? I'll tell you. So 0:58:01.920 --> 0:58:06.880 when I was in so you know, mof Alon, Okay, 0:58:07.960 --> 0:58:10.600 when MO was working on all the board, like working 0:58:10.640 --> 0:58:13.480 on all the board ain stuff, traveling for that show 0:58:13.600 --> 0:58:16.720 their eyes wherever the hell and he was somewhere and 0:58:16.760 --> 0:58:19.040 maybe in North Africa, I can't remember. It was working 0:58:19.080 --> 0:58:25.240 on no reservations. Was that the first one parts of 0:58:25.440 --> 0:58:29.240 no Yes, No reservations was before and they're eating all 0:58:29.320 --> 0:58:32.560 kind of lamb lung wherever he was. So then I 0:58:32.600 --> 0:58:34.240 was with Mo when we were in New Zealand. We 0:58:34.320 --> 0:58:39.400 shot a wild wild lamb, and he was real we 0:58:39.440 --> 0:58:42.640 made a big organ scramble and he was real indo 0:58:43.000 --> 0:58:46.680 emphatic about putting dicing up the lung and putting it 0:58:46.680 --> 0:58:53.439 in there. It's it's frothy, you had brain. There's no cheer, yeah, 0:58:53.480 --> 0:58:56.000 but there's no like chew to it or anything. It's 0:58:56.040 --> 0:59:00.200 like it's like a I don't, I haven't on the 0:59:00.200 --> 0:59:02.080 way that I enjoy it. You have to think about 0:59:02.080 --> 0:59:04.760 what it's made of, right, like it it had, it 0:59:05.400 --> 0:59:08.400 holds oxygen right, And so I was talking to yeah, 0:59:08.520 --> 0:59:12.000 when he shot his first book, he said that his 0:59:12.400 --> 0:59:14.200 you know, dad did all the butchering. He didn't want 0:59:14.200 --> 0:59:16.000 anyone to touch it and needed to be butchered the 0:59:16.040 --> 0:59:19.360 proper way with everything preserved because they eat everything. And 0:59:19.400 --> 0:59:22.480 he was actually saying that there's among dish that includes 0:59:22.520 --> 0:59:25.840 a whole bunch of oh fall together and the lung. 0:59:27.560 --> 0:59:29.720 You know, it's kind of like, if I remember correctly, 0:59:29.720 --> 0:59:33.000 it's almost like a little bit foamy or a little 0:59:33.000 --> 0:59:38.800 bit slimy to foolish thinking like chocolate mouse when I 0:59:38.960 --> 0:59:42.880 like seawee or head in my hands. But then cooking 0:59:42.880 --> 0:59:45.200 the water out would be well, I don't know, I'm 0:59:45.240 --> 0:59:47.120 sure Jonathan can speak to that. I mean it is 0:59:47.120 --> 0:59:49.680 the organ is more air than flesh, which makes it 0:59:49.720 --> 0:59:52.800 a little weird in texture. But I guess I've just 0:59:52.880 --> 0:59:55.680 thrown a deer lung in the pott. It does firm 0:59:55.760 --> 0:59:57.640 up a little bit, and you can't take a bite 0:59:57.640 --> 0:59:59.800 of it. I wouldn't. I mean I did that with 1:00:00.000 --> 1:00:03.920 at any seasoning or anything, just to see what it 1:00:03.920 --> 1:00:06.240 would the texture would be like. And you can, you know, 1:00:06.320 --> 1:00:08.240 just like any protein, it sort of firms up when 1:00:08.280 --> 1:00:11.080 you boil it um and so they did get some 1:00:11.160 --> 1:00:13.680 firmness to it and you could cut slices out of 1:00:13.680 --> 1:00:17.920 it un seasoned. What did it tastes like? Like? Not much? 1:00:19.480 --> 1:00:21.200 Just yeah, not much. I mean I had like a 1:00:21.240 --> 1:00:24.200 little bit of a organy, unpleasant taste to it. I 1:00:24.200 --> 1:00:27.400 would say I have had delicious lungs though. Um. One 1:00:27.440 --> 1:00:31.280 dish I had in Israel actually at a Bulgarian restaurant. 1:00:31.400 --> 1:00:33.760 It was called Lungs and Juice, and it was basically 1:00:33.800 --> 1:00:38.840 a tomato juice soup with lungs and they were, yeah, 1:00:39.000 --> 1:00:40.600 kind of cubed up and you could see I was 1:00:40.640 --> 1:00:43.400 sort of dissecting. You could see airways and how they 1:00:43.440 --> 1:00:47.400 branch and the lung had broken down into what we'd 1:00:47.400 --> 1:00:50.160 call lobules. You know, lung is broken down into lobes 1:00:50.200 --> 1:00:52.200 and those are broken down further into lobules, and just 1:00:52.280 --> 1:00:54.520 like you know, collagen holds the whole thing together like 1:00:54.560 --> 1:00:56.720 it does everybody parts when you boil it, the college 1:00:56.720 --> 1:00:58.800 and turns to gelatine and the thing kind of falls apart. 1:00:59.360 --> 1:01:04.440 But that was actually delicious. So when like, what was 1:01:04.480 --> 1:01:06.920 the timeline on the on you not being able to 1:01:06.920 --> 1:01:09.200 sell the stuff in the US, right, so began in 1:01:09.280 --> 1:01:12.400 nineteen sixty nine, Uh, the U. S d A decided 1:01:12.440 --> 1:01:14.800 to determine kind of once and for all, this is 1:01:14.800 --> 1:01:18.280 the language in the Federal Code, you know, determine if 1:01:18.440 --> 1:01:22.600 lungs are fit for human consumption or not. And who 1:01:22.640 --> 1:01:25.520 pushed for this or why is unclear. I did a 1:01:25.520 --> 1:01:27.560 bunch of research to the National Archives, and it's not 1:01:27.600 --> 1:01:29.600 clear who or why they pushed for it, but they 1:01:29.600 --> 1:01:32.240 set up a study where U. S d A pathologists, 1:01:32.800 --> 1:01:36.640 uh like, in the late sixties started examining livestock lungs 1:01:36.680 --> 1:01:40.280 specifically from I forget if those calves or or cattle 1:01:40.400 --> 1:01:42.400 or what age, but um, they took about a hundred 1:01:42.480 --> 1:01:44.880 or so lungs and started cutting open all the airways 1:01:45.240 --> 1:01:47.040 kind of all the way down, you know, with a scissor, 1:01:47.160 --> 1:01:48.840 the same way you would look through lungs. Let's say, 1:01:48.840 --> 1:01:50.440 as I mentioned, to look for a clot in the 1:01:50.480 --> 1:01:53.640 branching pulmonary arteries, you can do the same with the airways. 1:01:53.680 --> 1:01:55.160 So you just cut down the track and then cut 1:01:55.200 --> 1:01:57.320 down the bronchi and cut down the bronchials and all 1:01:57.360 --> 1:01:59.960 the way. And they sort of sampled from these deep 1:02:00.040 --> 1:02:04.880 for deeper airways and found things that alarmed them specifically 1:02:04.920 --> 1:02:10.120 like uh, pollen that the animal had inhaled dust, fungal spores, 1:02:10.760 --> 1:02:13.840 and room and contents, so stomach contents had you know, 1:02:13.880 --> 1:02:16.080 come up the esophagus and down into the lungs, maybe 1:02:16.080 --> 1:02:19.880 after death, maybe before death. And so because they were 1:02:19.920 --> 1:02:21.960 in such deep airways, you know, I feel like the 1:02:22.080 --> 1:02:25.520 USDA is always making decisions on what's practical and what's efficient, 1:02:26.280 --> 1:02:28.600 um And so they decided that when they do a 1:02:28.600 --> 1:02:31.280 post mortem examination of an animal and look at the lungs, 1:02:31.280 --> 1:02:33.640 they're not cutting down into the deep airways. And a 1:02:33.680 --> 1:02:36.640 significant proportion of these hundred or so animals had these 1:02:36.720 --> 1:02:39.880 quote contaminants in their deep airways, and so for the 1:02:39.880 --> 1:02:42.440 sake of efficiency and practicality is that, well, we're not 1:02:42.440 --> 1:02:46.480 gonna examine every long specimen that deeply, and since a 1:02:46.560 --> 1:02:49.720 large proportion of them have these quote contaminants, will just 1:02:49.760 --> 1:02:54.080 ban it completely from you know, human consumption basically, so 1:02:54.120 --> 1:02:57.360 they declared it unfit for human consumption. That's what the 1:02:57.360 --> 1:03:01.400 Federal Code says. But this aim declaration that there's no 1:03:01.480 --> 1:03:08.000 declaration about that about kidney, liver, and testine brain, Well 1:03:08.040 --> 1:03:10.520 they don't they're not, I guess exposed to those very 1:03:10.560 --> 1:03:15.760 specifically airborne contaminants. Right, So the lungs are exposed. You know, 1:03:15.760 --> 1:03:18.400 the atmosphere just continues on deep into our chest. It's 1:03:18.440 --> 1:03:21.200 contiguous with the atmosphere. So whatever is in the atmosphere 1:03:21.200 --> 1:03:24.280 we're getting in our lungs, including spores and pollen and 1:03:24.400 --> 1:03:27.840 dust um and our lungs do have a cleaning mechanism. 1:03:27.920 --> 1:03:30.200 In animals and us, we have a what's called the 1:03:30.280 --> 1:03:34.840 mucociliary elevator or mucus elevator. So are lunglining constantly secretes 1:03:35.320 --> 1:03:39.080 mucus that flows and picks up all these debris, picks 1:03:39.160 --> 1:03:42.560 up pollen and spores and whatever, and sort of drags 1:03:42.600 --> 1:03:44.520 it all the way up the airways, and these these 1:03:44.560 --> 1:03:47.880 microscopic hairs called celia sort of beat in a very 1:03:47.960 --> 1:03:51.680 rhythmic pattern that moves the mucus along. The mucus gathers up, 1:03:51.720 --> 1:03:54.560 the trachea comes into our throat and we subconsciously swallow it. 1:03:54.960 --> 1:03:57.840 So the lungs are always cleaning themselves through this mechanism. 1:03:57.920 --> 1:04:00.880 So when you kill an animal, the air born contaminants 1:04:00.920 --> 1:04:02.840 you find in their lungs at that moment would have 1:04:02.880 --> 1:04:04.880 been just what they've inhaled. And you know, I don't 1:04:04.880 --> 1:04:07.000 know the last few minutes, a few hours, because their 1:04:07.040 --> 1:04:11.080 lungs constantly cleaning itself. But at any specific moment when 1:04:11.120 --> 1:04:13.720 you kill them, there's some left in there that has 1:04:13.760 --> 1:04:17.040 not yet been cleared. Um. So then the question is like, 1:04:17.200 --> 1:04:20.160 is that unhealthy? Well, why would that be determined to 1:04:20.160 --> 1:04:26.160 be more dangerous than for instance, when you brought Worst. 1:04:27.040 --> 1:04:29.360 When you brought Worst, it's in a casing, it's in 1:04:29.400 --> 1:04:32.120 a hog middle. Now if you went and try to 1:04:32.160 --> 1:04:35.680 find some dangerous stuff, I would go looking around in 1:04:35.720 --> 1:04:40.000 a hog's gut. Well, they might argue that, well, that 1:04:40.040 --> 1:04:42.560 gut has been totally cleaned and the inner surface, which 1:04:42.600 --> 1:04:45.160 is the mucosa has been scraped off and any remnant 1:04:45.280 --> 1:04:48.560 of microbe that might hurt you is totally gone. Maybe 1:04:48.600 --> 1:04:50.200 they soaked it in you know what, are they soak 1:04:50.240 --> 1:04:52.880 it in lime or lie or something like that, So 1:04:52.920 --> 1:04:54.680 they'd say you can clean it out real good. Yeah, 1:04:54.720 --> 1:04:56.960 the lungs you can't clean out specifically in the much 1:04:57.000 --> 1:05:00.920 deeper airways there, there wasn't like a specific pathogen they 1:05:00.920 --> 1:05:05.520 were worried about. It was just a general this stuff's 1:05:05.560 --> 1:05:09.960 not good for humans. Correct, It's always obviously been you 1:05:10.000 --> 1:05:12.800 know U s d A code and the Federal Safety 1:05:12.840 --> 1:05:15.800 Inspection Service, you know the code about which lungs or 1:05:15.840 --> 1:05:17.840 which organs must be discarded. You know, if you find 1:05:17.880 --> 1:05:22.000 actual disease or infection, um, you discard it. So if 1:05:22.000 --> 1:05:23.840 the lung has an abscess you know, I don't know, 1:05:23.880 --> 1:05:28.080 has assisted worms in, it has whatever evidence of anthrax 1:05:28.240 --> 1:05:31.240 something like that, obviously that's you know, you should that 1:05:31.240 --> 1:05:34.080 should be condemned, as they say, um. But yeah, this 1:05:34.160 --> 1:05:37.680 was just they were afraid of people ingesting literally dust, 1:05:37.880 --> 1:05:40.760 pollen and fungal sports from the air. So when you 1:05:40.840 --> 1:05:44.160 found this out, what prevented you from just being from 1:05:44.240 --> 1:05:51.200 saying to yourself hmm, that's interesting. And then moving on, well, 1:05:51.240 --> 1:05:54.360 I think so I came at medical school from the 1:05:54.520 --> 1:05:59.200 like interest in, um, you know, kind of early humans 1:05:59.240 --> 1:06:01.120 and how we get everything, how we eat everything, how 1:06:01.120 --> 1:06:03.360 we make everything. So I came to medicine from that, 1:06:03.440 --> 1:06:06.120 and then that combined into my interest in food. So 1:06:06.120 --> 1:06:08.800 I was bringing my kind of that sort of wilderness 1:06:08.840 --> 1:06:13.560 survival sort of idea with my anatomical and physiologic knowledge 1:06:13.560 --> 1:06:15.760 that I was learning in medical school, and that made 1:06:15.760 --> 1:06:18.720 me question these things, you know, I was like, oh, 1:06:18.880 --> 1:06:21.280 is that actually dangerous? Like does that make sense? I 1:06:21.280 --> 1:06:24.400 guess I'm always questioning everything. Like there's a lot of 1:06:24.400 --> 1:06:27.560 stuff that we take for granted, dogma that's been passed down. 1:06:27.680 --> 1:06:29.760 That's true in the medical field. So much of what 1:06:29.800 --> 1:06:33.600 we do is bullshit for lack of a better term, Um, 1:06:33.640 --> 1:06:36.160 there's so much dogma. I mean in food, the dog 1:06:36.320 --> 1:06:38.480 was just off the mean. Give me a couple examples, 1:06:38.480 --> 1:06:42.120 not medicine or and food. Food Damn, give me, give 1:06:42.160 --> 1:06:46.240 me a couple of bullshit food beliefs. Um. Well, I 1:06:46.280 --> 1:06:48.800 would say that the lungs is a great example, Like 1:06:48.880 --> 1:06:51.560 I don't believe those things are unhealthy in any way 1:06:51.640 --> 1:06:53.720 to eat and let me just say, when you when 1:06:53.720 --> 1:06:57.400 your own mucous elevators cleaning out your lungs, your subconsciously 1:06:57.440 --> 1:07:00.280 swallowing all that stuff anyway, all day, every day of 1:07:00.280 --> 1:07:03.840 our lives, we're all swallowing everything we inhale subconsciously. And 1:07:03.920 --> 1:07:07.200 it's unco good point. And it's uncooked right because it's 1:07:07.280 --> 1:07:09.200 directly from our lungs. If you're going to cook an 1:07:09.200 --> 1:07:11.640 animals lung like, there's no way that's dangerous. I just 1:07:11.680 --> 1:07:15.440 don't believe it makes no medical sense. Another thing I questioned, 1:07:15.480 --> 1:07:19.760 like you see this said everywhere, which is that tender 1:07:19.800 --> 1:07:23.960 cuts come from muscles that the animal used less in life. 1:07:24.400 --> 1:07:28.360 That makes no anatomic sense. Is it true, because when 1:07:28.400 --> 1:07:31.480 you don't use a muscle, it atrophies like the bodies. 1:07:31.680 --> 1:07:34.080 I think it that that statement assumes the body is 1:07:34.120 --> 1:07:37.120 inefficient and would maintain muscle it's not using or using 1:07:37.280 --> 1:07:40.800 you know, inadequately. But bodies don't do that. They maintain 1:07:40.880 --> 1:07:44.120 just the amount of muscle that they need. Um, it's 1:07:44.120 --> 1:07:47.000 not it's sort of indirectly has a point to make 1:07:47.080 --> 1:07:51.439 about which muscles have more collagen in them, but it's 1:07:51.440 --> 1:07:53.480 not that they were used less. So it's it's a 1:07:53.480 --> 1:07:56.840 little bit of semantics. But you know, I understood think 1:07:56.840 --> 1:08:01.520 about hard point, medium, rare. Heart is tender, stuffy, some 1:08:01.600 --> 1:08:07.480 bitches working away. You got a big problem if it's not. Yeah, 1:08:07.480 --> 1:08:10.280 that's a great point. And I was sinking to um, 1:08:10.520 --> 1:08:14.000 tongues are real tender. Yeah, Well, I mean, and it's 1:08:14.000 --> 1:08:16.759 a hard work and I don't know they work. Doesn't 1:08:16.800 --> 1:08:24.840 seem like it's working away. I think people assume that, 1:08:25.200 --> 1:08:27.679 you know, muscles from the legs and the arms work 1:08:27.720 --> 1:08:30.000 a lot as opposed to like say, in a quadruped, 1:08:30.120 --> 1:08:32.560 the muscles along the spine, like the tender loin or 1:08:32.560 --> 1:08:35.160 the backstrap don't work as much because they're not upright 1:08:35.200 --> 1:08:37.920 like us. But I do not believe that's true at all. 1:08:38.000 --> 1:08:40.599 So when just as I said, the body is constantly 1:08:40.600 --> 1:08:43.800 remodeling itself and breaking down protein and rebuilding it. If 1:08:43.840 --> 1:08:45.880 you're not using a muscle, it wastes away. Just like 1:08:46.120 --> 1:08:48.679 someone has a limb and a cast. For some months 1:08:48.720 --> 1:08:50.680 they can't use that muscle, and when they take off 1:08:50.680 --> 1:08:53.200 the cast, it looks like skeletal because all the muscles 1:08:53.200 --> 1:08:55.439 wasted away. Before we get back into the longs, what 1:08:55.479 --> 1:08:59.280 does your tender loin do Um, I believe. So the 1:08:59.360 --> 1:09:02.200 tender loin connects, so it's the so s major muscle, 1:09:02.280 --> 1:09:05.360 and it kind of combines with the iliachis muscle, which 1:09:05.439 --> 1:09:07.880 is on the inside your iliac crest. And they go 1:09:07.960 --> 1:09:10.559 down and test your legs. So I believe it's hip flexion. 1:09:10.840 --> 1:09:14.160 They're involved in hip flexion. M hmm, that's what a 1:09:14.240 --> 1:09:18.439 DearS one is. Uh. I believe. So those are tender, 1:09:19.000 --> 1:09:23.639 very but they're working every time he flexes his hips. Yeah, 1:09:23.960 --> 1:09:26.679 and I mean even though and so there's another way 1:09:26.720 --> 1:09:29.200 that meat scientists will say it, which is that locomotive 1:09:29.280 --> 1:09:34.720 muscles are tougher than postural muscles. So muscles like the 1:09:34.800 --> 1:09:37.479 legs that make you move are working harder than postural 1:09:37.560 --> 1:09:40.839 muscles that are maybe just doing small adjustments to your spine, 1:09:41.680 --> 1:09:44.519 let's say in a quadruped But that also doesn't make sense. 1:09:44.560 --> 1:09:47.439 You know, when they did these the sheer force tests 1:09:47.479 --> 1:09:49.760 of all the muscles in the body, they discovered, Oh 1:09:49.760 --> 1:09:53.040 my god, the flat iron is super tender like um, 1:09:53.040 --> 1:09:55.760 which surprised everyone. Even though it's a locomotive muscle. It's 1:09:55.760 --> 1:09:58.840 involved in the the four quarter and there's some other 1:09:58.880 --> 1:10:00.680 ones in the back of the high nme quarter that 1:10:00.720 --> 1:10:03.240 they found were super tender. And none of that makes 1:10:03.280 --> 1:10:06.600 sense with the locomotive postural dichotomy doesn't make sense with 1:10:06.640 --> 1:10:10.280 the using the muscle more or less dichotomy. I have 1:10:10.360 --> 1:10:13.200 heard that a hundred million times. Yeah, you hear it 1:10:13.200 --> 1:10:16.000 absolutely everywhere and it again. It has a point, but 1:10:16.320 --> 1:10:19.480 anatomically it makes no sense. It assumes the bodies inefficiently 1:10:19.920 --> 1:10:22.720 maintaining a muscle. It's not using or using less than 1:10:22.760 --> 1:10:25.680 it needs to. To get back to the long thing, 1:10:26.840 --> 1:10:29.160 you actually took the time to write a letter to 1:10:29.200 --> 1:10:32.639 the U. S d A to say, you boys got 1:10:32.640 --> 1:10:37.240 it all wrong on lungs right. Did they take you seriously? 1:10:37.840 --> 1:10:40.879 I haven't heard back yet, though they did acknowledge receipt 1:10:41.160 --> 1:10:44.080 of the petition. You know you can This is the FSI, 1:10:45.240 --> 1:10:47.240 Well that's what they call it. You can you know 1:10:47.240 --> 1:10:49.519 on their website you can submit a petition by emailing 1:10:49.520 --> 1:10:51.720 this address. Um it's the f s I as the 1:10:51.720 --> 1:10:55.200 Federal Safety Inspection Service, which sort of, um, you know, 1:10:56.000 --> 1:10:57.800 creates the rules for what you're supposed to do with 1:10:57.840 --> 1:11:01.439 different body parts. I submitted this the explanation that I 1:11:01.520 --> 1:11:04.000 just gave about the mucociliary elevator, and how we're all 1:11:04.040 --> 1:11:06.479 eating this stuff anyway, and there's no evidence that it's 1:11:06.520 --> 1:11:10.200 unhealthy in any way, especially cooked. And I submit, you know, 1:11:10.240 --> 1:11:13.320 I printed out or included a chapter from a lung 1:11:13.360 --> 1:11:16.919 physiology textbook and highlighted the part about the mucociliary elevator. 1:11:17.720 --> 1:11:20.080 So let's see, I mean, there's no there's no push this. 1:11:20.080 --> 1:11:22.320 This law makes no medical sense and it's not keeping 1:11:22.360 --> 1:11:25.519 anyone safe, but there's no great push to turn it 1:11:25.560 --> 1:11:28.839 over because no one cares about lungs, only the Haggis 1:11:28.920 --> 1:11:32.320 lobby apparently, um even I I read. I spoke with 1:11:32.400 --> 1:11:34.680 the dean of the law school University of Pennsylvania, which 1:11:34.720 --> 1:11:36.400 is down the street from my house, and he he 1:11:36.479 --> 1:11:38.559 is a specialist in food and drug law. He never 1:11:38.600 --> 1:11:40.799 heard of this law, like, no one's ever heard of it. 1:11:40.800 --> 1:11:43.760 It's just on the books and forgotten. And it's there 1:11:43.760 --> 1:11:46.400 because of what we call regulatory inertia, like no one's 1:11:46.439 --> 1:11:50.840 pushing to overturn it. Where where do lungs, like from 1:11:50.880 --> 1:11:53.880 a slaughterhouse, where do they end up? Like do they 1:11:53.920 --> 1:11:57.479 get used elsewhere or end up in the trash or 1:11:58.040 --> 1:12:00.040 so that's a great question actually in the law that 1:12:00.200 --> 1:12:03.320 bands lungs for human consumption. There's a stipulation that pharmaceutical 1:12:03.360 --> 1:12:06.800 companies can still get them because they harvest something from 1:12:06.840 --> 1:12:10.600 them called surfactant, which is a soap like molecule that 1:12:10.640 --> 1:12:13.800 helps the lungs not collapse when you exhale, and it's 1:12:13.800 --> 1:12:16.600 actually turned into a drug that is squirted into the 1:12:16.640 --> 1:12:20.479 tray ch as of premature babies. Um, I've done that before. 1:12:20.960 --> 1:12:22.800 So one of the last things to develop in your 1:12:22.800 --> 1:12:25.000 body before you come out of the womb is this surfactant. 1:12:25.640 --> 1:12:27.719 Because you're not breathing the whole time you're in the womb. 1:12:27.760 --> 1:12:30.320 You're about to take your first breath. So this surfactant 1:12:30.560 --> 1:12:33.719 helps the soap like molecule, you know, half is dissolved 1:12:33.720 --> 1:12:37.400 and water half dissolves and lipids. It keeps the alveoli, 1:12:37.479 --> 1:12:40.280 the microscopic air sax open when you exhale. Otherwise they 1:12:40.280 --> 1:12:42.960 would just collapse on themselves. And that's what happens when 1:12:43.040 --> 1:12:45.880 babies are born premature and don't have surfactant yet, they 1:12:45.920 --> 1:12:49.519 have respiratory distress syndrome and often have trouble breathing. So 1:12:49.600 --> 1:12:52.120 you actually take this stuff that is I think there's 1:12:52.160 --> 1:12:55.519 some synthetic varieties but some are actually still harvested from 1:12:55.800 --> 1:12:59.080 from bovine lungs, and you literally, you know, like you're 1:12:59.080 --> 1:13:01.360 intibating someone put a breathing tub and you actually just 1:13:01.400 --> 1:13:03.920 squirt this stuff and you actually you roll the baby 1:13:03.920 --> 1:13:05.720 to one side, squired a little in to get into 1:13:05.760 --> 1:13:07.160 that long and then you roll them over to the 1:13:07.200 --> 1:13:08.880 other side, squired a little more and to get into 1:13:08.920 --> 1:13:11.760 that long after they're born, after they're born, immediately after 1:13:11.800 --> 1:13:14.439 they're born. Actually, well, I guess depending on the eight 1:13:14.479 --> 1:13:17.280 you might wait to see if they have the respiratory difficulties, 1:13:18.520 --> 1:13:20.400 or depending on their age, you might just give it 1:13:20.520 --> 1:13:23.200 because they're very likely to have it if they're very premature. 1:13:23.240 --> 1:13:25.800 That was written in the law. Yeah, so I've heard 1:13:25.800 --> 1:13:28.720 a conspiracy theory that the pharmaceutical companies are behind the 1:13:28.840 --> 1:13:35.760 law they wanted more. Yeah, how much. I don't find 1:13:35.800 --> 1:13:38.080 that there's no short I think there's no shortage of lunges. 1:13:38.400 --> 1:13:40.960 There are they synthetic alternatives? Are they used for like 1:13:41.080 --> 1:13:43.680 dog food or fertilizer or anything like that. So there's 1:13:43.720 --> 1:13:46.519 dog treats also that are you can see them in 1:13:46.560 --> 1:13:51.760 grocery stores, like lung dog treats. Yeah, like a drop Yeah, 1:13:52.520 --> 1:13:55.000 how about a long term v O two max study 1:13:55.040 --> 1:13:59.439 on these kids with the bovine lung juice shot into them. Yeah, 1:13:59.479 --> 1:14:01.559 I mean a lot of them do end up with 1:14:01.640 --> 1:14:04.960 chronic lung issues. I mean I think the the surfactant 1:14:05.000 --> 1:14:07.760 lessens them. But does isn't you know? Perfectly curative because 1:14:07.760 --> 1:14:10.200 a lot of those kids still have trouble breathing and 1:14:10.240 --> 1:14:14.080 need a lot of support. Um, So it's probably much 1:14:14.080 --> 1:14:15.920 better than it would be if you didn't do it, 1:14:15.920 --> 1:14:18.320 though I don't know the evidence behind it. Are the 1:14:18.439 --> 1:14:21.280 specifics of the law that you can't sell long or 1:14:21.320 --> 1:14:23.360 that you can't eat long? Like can we legally eat 1:14:23.360 --> 1:14:26.720 the lung from a deer? Yes, there's nothing about It's 1:14:26.800 --> 1:14:29.599 it's more about selling um or serving in a restaurant, 1:14:29.600 --> 1:14:33.240 which is sort of indirectly selling um. Wild game or 1:14:33.240 --> 1:14:39.680 if you slaughter your own you can absolutely eat lung. Uh, 1:14:40.080 --> 1:14:41.920 this is off lung too. Bath. Look, you might answer, 1:14:41.920 --> 1:14:43.960 you might know the answer to this question. What does 1:14:44.000 --> 1:14:48.160 all the hubbub um? Do you know about the Do 1:14:48.200 --> 1:14:50.560 you do you know much about the like non pasteurized 1:14:50.600 --> 1:14:53.920 milk craze and all that I'm aware of it. I 1:14:53.960 --> 1:14:57.120 don't know a ton about it. Do you know what's 1:14:57.200 --> 1:15:01.040 dangerous about it? Um? Well, I know once. I mean, 1:15:01.040 --> 1:15:02.880 I feel like I was just thinking about this the 1:15:02.880 --> 1:15:04.600 other day. There's a lot of movement towards you know, 1:15:04.720 --> 1:15:08.320 raw milk and just everything raw and less process and 1:15:08.400 --> 1:15:12.920 less over you know, less oversight, less um, pasteurization, whatever, 1:15:13.520 --> 1:15:15.400 and I think, I mean, there are you know, probably 1:15:15.400 --> 1:15:17.640 nowadays we have a cleaner food supply than they did 1:15:17.680 --> 1:15:20.120 a hundred years ago, when these laws are probably more important. 1:15:20.120 --> 1:15:22.559 But there probably will be some disease. I don't think 1:15:22.560 --> 1:15:24.160 it will be common, but you know, the risk is 1:15:24.280 --> 1:15:26.960 very small, I think, not zero. One of the things though, 1:15:27.000 --> 1:15:30.479 is there's actually something called bovine TB where there's a 1:15:30.600 --> 1:15:34.120 kind of it's um Microbacterium bovis I believe, as opposed 1:15:34.160 --> 1:15:36.720 to the one that infects humans and I don't I 1:15:36.720 --> 1:15:39.760 don't know what it's prevalences and cow milk these days 1:15:39.760 --> 1:15:42.240 in the US, but there is a kind of that 1:15:42.320 --> 1:15:44.120 kind of tuberculous is that can and it would go 1:15:44.120 --> 1:15:46.759 to your intestines and cause kind of an intestinal TB 1:15:47.000 --> 1:15:48.519 or we'd call it a t B and too right, 1:15:48.600 --> 1:15:50.519 it's not like in the lungs because you're not inhaling it. 1:15:51.400 --> 1:15:54.360 That was one of the you know, reasons for the 1:15:54.760 --> 1:15:57.439 processing of milk, and I'm sure there's others as well. 1:15:57.560 --> 1:16:03.880 I don't know as much about. Uh. When you why, like, 1:16:03.960 --> 1:16:07.519 do you do you really care about the long issue 1:16:07.920 --> 1:16:10.720 or is it just academic for you? Well, it's I 1:16:10.760 --> 1:16:13.880 don't care a lot. I mean, I surely I want 1:16:14.080 --> 1:16:16.920 the laws of our country to be sensible, especially when 1:16:16.920 --> 1:16:18.920 they're in the area that I know most about, which 1:16:18.960 --> 1:16:22.680 is medicine and health. Um, they shouldn't be stupid. I 1:16:22.720 --> 1:16:27.200 feel like don't be stupid is a good philosophy for laws. 1:16:27.280 --> 1:16:32.280 But um, I mean part of it's fun. Um maybe 1:16:32.280 --> 1:16:34.360 bragging rights. If they actually overturn it, I don't know, 1:16:34.600 --> 1:16:36.160 it would be great. I put it on your resume. 1:16:37.760 --> 1:16:43.639 Have you followed c W D much a little bit? Yeah? Uh? 1:16:43.680 --> 1:16:48.320 What's your take on on the idea that that you 1:16:48.360 --> 1:16:52.559 know those those prions? Are you a prion or preon? 1:16:52.880 --> 1:16:57.960 Say pry on that the prions. I've heard people smarter 1:16:58.000 --> 1:17:00.800 than me say pre on though, but I still like saying, okay, 1:17:00.880 --> 1:17:10.000 the prions that that caused mad cow disease. Uh scrapy uh. 1:17:10.400 --> 1:17:14.600 Jako Kreutz felt whatever all these things. What is it? 1:17:14.920 --> 1:17:18.040 Kuru kay? You are you? That's the one that was 1:17:18.080 --> 1:17:20.000 the common in Papua New Guinea when they would eat 1:17:20.000 --> 1:17:25.759 their ancestors, eat their relatives. That in an animal, those 1:17:25.880 --> 1:17:34.439 prions are apparently more prevalent in the nervous system, so 1:17:34.560 --> 1:17:41.120 more prevalent in brain and spine. So you'll have people 1:17:41.560 --> 1:17:45.479 like guys like me whatever who maybe used to saw 1:17:46.200 --> 1:17:51.559 um little chops, little bone in chops, and people be like, oh, 1:17:51.640 --> 1:17:56.240 don't do that, because you're getting the prions all over everything. 1:17:57.280 --> 1:18:00.000 Are we? Is that all mental masturbation if you're eating 1:18:00.080 --> 1:18:04.320 the animal anyway? Well, I think I'm not an expert 1:18:04.320 --> 1:18:07.519 in this area, but I do think that the danger 1:18:07.680 --> 1:18:11.400 is very low and might be zero. Um. I mean, 1:18:11.560 --> 1:18:14.200 I guess when you're cooking it. I mean, prions can 1:18:14.240 --> 1:18:17.679 survive thousands of degrees they can survive. Can they survive 1:18:17.760 --> 1:18:21.880 like cooking temperatures that they can survive? No. I heard 1:18:21.920 --> 1:18:24.439 they can survive the surface of the sun like that. 1:18:26.320 --> 1:18:32.760 It's like wildly Remember when some politician was making some 1:18:32.800 --> 1:18:37.920 politician made a thing against c W d UH research 1:18:38.080 --> 1:18:39.800 and he was saying, we'll just cook your meat, and 1:18:39.840 --> 1:18:41.680 someone pointed out that you have to be cooking your 1:18:41.680 --> 1:18:45.160 meat the nine degrees, which is for several hours. I 1:18:45.240 --> 1:18:48.599 just which is which is way outside the capacity of 1:18:48.640 --> 1:18:54.439 your average any homeowner, of any homeowners oven is hitting 1:18:54.520 --> 1:18:58.360 nine degrees. Isn't gonna happen? Well, I guess I'm mistaken 1:18:58.360 --> 1:19:00.880 about that. But I mean there's a lot of people 1:19:00.920 --> 1:19:04.080 out there eating similar chops as you, And if there 1:19:04.080 --> 1:19:07.040 haven't been any cases yet, I'd say that's pretty reassuring. 1:19:07.200 --> 1:19:09.800 So are you not worried about cw D from it 1:19:09.840 --> 1:19:11.599 from a eating from I'm not saying you're given I'm 1:19:11.600 --> 1:19:14.920 not trying to put in given medical device, but when 1:19:15.000 --> 1:19:17.280 you look at the fact that no one's gotten it 1:19:17.280 --> 1:19:21.920 from dear meat, Yeah, if you shot if you shot 1:19:21.960 --> 1:19:25.439 one and got it tested, would you just like you 1:19:25.560 --> 1:19:27.280 personally would just be like to health that I'm eating 1:19:27.280 --> 1:19:30.680 it anyway, like and I know that it has CWD 1:19:30.840 --> 1:19:36.439 this animal good question. Honestly, I would probably not eat 1:19:36.479 --> 1:19:41.479 the nervous tissue in that case, but you eat the meat. Maybe, 1:19:41.600 --> 1:19:52.840 I guess I would have to do more research. Well, 1:19:52.880 --> 1:19:55.920 here's one for you, jumping back to our milk question. Okay, 1:19:57.160 --> 1:20:02.600 the Journal Tuberculosis Independent Study. They you know, gathered a 1:20:02.600 --> 1:20:06.519 bunch of studies from two thousand sixty seven articles eighty 1:20:06.600 --> 1:20:15.599 three studies and found a consensus of five percent uh 1:20:15.960 --> 1:20:20.800 milk would be infected with with bovine TV if it 1:20:20.840 --> 1:20:25.160 wasn't pasteurized, If it wasn't pasteurized, I guess that a 1:20:25.240 --> 1:20:28.160 gamble you'd be willing to take, good question. I guess 1:20:28.160 --> 1:20:30.479 I'd want to know what, you know, do all of 1:20:30.520 --> 1:20:32.960 those have an infectious dose worth in them? How much 1:20:33.000 --> 1:20:35.240 you'd have to drink to get infected? And what's the 1:20:35.760 --> 1:20:37.439 you know, what's the infection rate? I mean, a bunch 1:20:37.439 --> 1:20:39.240 of humans drink salmonella and not all of them are 1:20:39.240 --> 1:20:42.240 gonna get sick. So I guess you know, it's always 1:20:42.240 --> 1:20:45.519 a percentage. Yeah, Salmonilla was a big one when I 1:20:45.560 --> 1:20:50.960 was punching in milk, like, yeah, salmonilla is the seems 1:20:51.000 --> 1:20:55.320 to raise more hairs than bovine TV does. I spent 1:20:55.400 --> 1:20:58.120 some time with a I did a story years ago 1:20:58.160 --> 1:21:02.000 about livestock theft out of wrestling, and I got to 1:21:02.000 --> 1:21:05.759 spend much time with the stock detective in California, also 1:21:05.760 --> 1:21:10.720 an idol. But this guy in California had been tasked 1:21:10.840 --> 1:21:18.160 with breaking up these little non pasteurized milk schemes, and 1:21:18.200 --> 1:21:21.400 the way it goes is this undercover well it checked 1:21:21.400 --> 1:21:23.360 this out. So here's how they get around it. You 1:21:23.400 --> 1:21:28.040 don't buy the milk. You buy a share of a cow, 1:21:30.120 --> 1:21:35.400 and then you get your portion of your You get 1:21:35.439 --> 1:21:41.280 your shares worth of your cow's milk because you own it. Okay. 1:21:41.640 --> 1:21:45.360 So I have a dairy cow, I sell ten shares 1:21:45.640 --> 1:21:49.160 to people and then they get one tenth of that 1:21:49.240 --> 1:21:54.040 dairy cow's output. I haven't sold them the milk. I 1:21:54.080 --> 1:21:56.800 haven't sold them the raw milk. I've sold that. I've 1:21:56.800 --> 1:21:58.840 just told them part of my cow. What they do 1:21:58.960 --> 1:22:03.920 with their cow's milk because their business. Okay. When he 1:22:04.000 --> 1:22:08.080 was working these little schemes, um, what he started doing 1:22:08.200 --> 1:22:11.479 was finding out who are okay, who are the owners? 1:22:12.840 --> 1:22:16.200 Give me their names. I'd like to go visit with 1:22:16.280 --> 1:22:20.720 them and and see their brand, inspection papers and all 1:22:20.760 --> 1:22:24.680 their paperwork for the cow that they own, which for 1:22:26.640 --> 1:22:30.679 any idea what he was talking about, so you yeah, 1:22:30.760 --> 1:22:34.519 it was like, so you don't own the cow because 1:22:34.560 --> 1:22:38.479 you don't have anything that signifies your legal ownership of 1:22:38.600 --> 1:22:41.880 livestock registered to the state. And that was how they 1:22:41.880 --> 1:22:45.880 got after these milk shares that's a I don't mean 1:22:45.920 --> 1:22:49.479 the stereotype, but that's that's a real hippie business. But 1:22:49.560 --> 1:22:51.720 that that's probably one of those. That's one of those 1:22:51.760 --> 1:22:55.599 areas where the left, the radical left, and the radical 1:22:55.680 --> 1:22:59.920 right come around and meet. They come around and meet 1:23:00.160 --> 1:23:03.559 like in a weird land, because like hippies are you know, 1:23:03.680 --> 1:23:07.439 like natural is good, right then on the rights, on 1:23:07.479 --> 1:23:09.760 the left you got like everything anything natural is good. 1:23:10.040 --> 1:23:12.120 On the right, you got the garment. Can't tell me 1:23:12.160 --> 1:23:15.080 what to do. They don't want me eating raw milk, 1:23:15.120 --> 1:23:18.000 therefore I'm gonna eat it. And they come back around 1:23:18.000 --> 1:23:21.639 and they meet where hippies meet. It's like the crazy 1:23:21.680 --> 1:23:29.200 ass right wing people. That that would be like a 1:23:29.320 --> 1:23:32.240 great um You'd never be able selled as a TV show, 1:23:32.280 --> 1:23:34.360 but it would be a good book if you did 1:23:34.439 --> 1:23:41.559 ten chapters and each chapter was where crazy ass hippies 1:23:42.880 --> 1:23:46.519 and super right wingers meet up and just spend time 1:23:46.520 --> 1:23:49.080 in those ten worlds. That's what I love about dive 1:23:49.160 --> 1:23:52.519 bars in Bozeman, like during ski season, is that you 1:23:52.560 --> 1:23:55.040 are at the bottom of the horseshoe for both sides, 1:23:55.280 --> 1:23:57.400 like especially if you go to like Stacy's or something 1:23:57.760 --> 1:24:01.120 like the the Horseshoe is very apparent. It's great. I 1:24:01.160 --> 1:24:02.720 used to go to a bar in Missoula and it 1:24:02.760 --> 1:24:07.920 was like ranchers and earth firsters, you know, And I 1:24:07.920 --> 1:24:08.960 always want to be like, do you know what the 1:24:09.000 --> 1:24:17.400 guy down the bar does? He keeps buying around? Yeah, 1:24:17.479 --> 1:24:19.160 I gotta think about that book where I might be 1:24:19.200 --> 1:24:22.040 on something. Man, there's some good would be called the 1:24:22.040 --> 1:24:25.120 Bottom of the Horseshoe. Yeah, you gotta like Stacy's like 1:24:25.200 --> 1:24:27.160 this time of your ski season. You'll have fellas that 1:24:27.200 --> 1:24:30.280 are in like cowboy hats and chaps like real cowboys, 1:24:30.479 --> 1:24:33.240 and they'll be listen, there's no real cowboy at a 1:24:33.280 --> 1:24:36.360 bar and chaps I have the point and they'll be bellied. 1:24:37.320 --> 1:24:41.519 You might be a different kind of bar like. So 1:24:41.560 --> 1:24:50.080 it's like, but they have had Spencer. I'd like to 1:24:50.080 --> 1:24:53.679 show you the hitching posts you got me there. They'll 1:24:53.680 --> 1:24:55.519 be bellied up next to somebody who's got like a 1:24:55.600 --> 1:24:58.680 Hemp sweatshirt and dreadlocks. And it's great. I love it. 1:24:58.840 --> 1:25:00.960 That book idea is so good you just might want 1:25:00.960 --> 1:25:04.479 to edit it out of this podcast. Man. Plus, I mean, 1:25:04.520 --> 1:25:06.360 I'm gonna piss enough people off to her, you know, 1:25:06.439 --> 1:25:10.080 its gonna sell real, Well, it's good ship. Do we 1:25:10.120 --> 1:25:12.120 cut it out, Phil or do you think me talking 1:25:12.120 --> 1:25:16.200 about it has gotten Here's the thing. I am writing 1:25:16.640 --> 1:25:22.120 a book your helmet, Okay, just started it. I have 1:25:22.280 --> 1:25:25.120 the gun work on a book called the Bottom of 1:25:25.160 --> 1:25:28.799 the Horseshoe, and it is about where crazy ass hippies 1:25:28.840 --> 1:25:37.240 and radical right wingers meet, guns, unpasteurized milk, home school vaccines. 1:25:37.439 --> 1:25:39.680 It exists. I've I've actually read the first chapter. It's 1:25:39.760 --> 1:25:43.640 it's just says chapter one. It's great The Bottom of 1:25:43.640 --> 1:25:46.720 the horse Shoe Steven Ronella where it's the subtitles where 1:25:46.760 --> 1:25:50.400 crazy ass hippies and radical right wingers agree. It includes 1:25:50.520 --> 1:25:56.200 chapters on firearms, um, oh, chickens, backyard chickens would be 1:25:56.200 --> 1:26:03.520 a great backyard chickens, vaccines, elk, non pasteurized milk, homeschooling. 1:26:05.040 --> 1:26:15.479 I'll think it's more. That's kind of Livingstone's whole tourism campaign. Literally, yeah, 1:26:15.520 --> 1:26:19.439 we're artists, artists and cowboys meet, yeah, or something like that. 1:26:20.080 --> 1:26:23.040 So Dr Rice, and what's your uh now that you've 1:26:23.040 --> 1:26:27.080 become familiar over the last six years with with hunters hunters, okay, 1:26:27.120 --> 1:26:32.280 in wild game consumption, what are your um, what are 1:26:32.280 --> 1:26:35.519 your warnings? And your hot tips for people that that 1:26:35.720 --> 1:26:38.280 butcher their own stuff, eat their own stuff. Do you 1:26:38.320 --> 1:26:41.000 see our community doing ship where you're like, I would 1:26:41.080 --> 1:26:46.559 not do that from a medical professional standpoint, or where 1:26:46.560 --> 1:26:52.400 you're like, I wonder why those people don't do that? Um, well, 1:26:53.200 --> 1:26:56.040 I guess you know, all doctors give advice based on 1:26:56.080 --> 1:26:59.000 their own levels of fear and worry and things, and 1:26:59.040 --> 1:27:02.000 I kind of don't worry too much about those things. 1:27:02.040 --> 1:27:05.519 I mean, I you know, process animals, gut hums and 1:27:05.720 --> 1:27:10.040 butcher them without gloves. I do. I mean maybe I shouldn't. 1:27:10.040 --> 1:27:11.880 I mean, when I was in India, I also ate 1:27:12.160 --> 1:27:15.519 everything street food. You know, the restaurants with more roaches 1:27:15.560 --> 1:27:18.960 had the better food. Honestly, Um, I'm just not like 1:27:19.600 --> 1:27:21.760 nervous about those things. Maybe it should be more so, 1:27:22.280 --> 1:27:25.200 but my usually, like with milk, I kind of feel 1:27:25.240 --> 1:27:27.640 like the people who are saying it's dangerous or exaggerating, 1:27:27.640 --> 1:27:29.360 and the people who say it's going to make you 1:27:29.400 --> 1:27:33.200 live forever or exaggerating, I kind of think everyone's just exaggerating. 1:27:33.479 --> 1:27:36.640 So you don't you don't impulsively put on not impulsively, 1:27:36.680 --> 1:27:39.240 you don't in a calculated fash and put latex gloves 1:27:39.240 --> 1:27:41.960 on one handling game. I don't. I mean, I guess 1:27:42.000 --> 1:27:45.559 sometimes when I'm trying to keep the fur and you know, 1:27:45.680 --> 1:27:49.200 tarso glands off the meat and stuff like that, sometimes 1:27:49.200 --> 1:27:52.200 I will, but not because I'm afraid of like hurting, 1:27:52.400 --> 1:27:56.560 you know, getting any contracting a disease myself. But that 1:27:56.760 --> 1:27:59.479 I'm just kind of like not not like a nervous, 1:27:59.479 --> 1:28:05.000 precautious person, pre cautious, nervous Nellie. I'm not who is 1:28:05.080 --> 1:28:12.320 Nellie nervous Nellie? There's a nervous ned both. I don't know. 1:28:12.880 --> 1:28:16.760 I don't think I've ever heard ned. Yeah, pick your audience, though, 1:28:17.000 --> 1:28:20.280 we'll get it. So there's that one. What about if 1:28:20.280 --> 1:28:22.400 you're eating a whole bunch of bone marrow all the time? 1:28:22.439 --> 1:28:25.320 Is that super bad for you? Not that I know of. 1:28:25.640 --> 1:28:28.840 It's delicious. Why what what's the danger? I don't know. Man, 1:28:28.840 --> 1:28:30.760 when we've got into eating love, but I always felt 1:28:30.760 --> 1:28:34.200 like I was doing something bad. I'm not sure you know, 1:28:34.200 --> 1:28:37.440 I'm sure you know infectious disease or food inspection specialists 1:28:37.520 --> 1:28:40.280 might specialist might have more to say. I've been saying 1:28:40.280 --> 1:28:42.479 eat all thee you want. I've been making a lot 1:28:42.520 --> 1:28:47.240 of duck stock lately, and I have found that the 1:28:47.360 --> 1:28:51.280 duck stock is better like the nasty or your duck 1:28:51.320 --> 1:28:56.200 carcasses look on the way in. So like basically, all 1:28:56.240 --> 1:28:58.519 I do at this point is make sure that that 1:28:59.200 --> 1:29:01.519 the end of the aggestive tract is out of there, 1:29:02.160 --> 1:29:05.879 so it's basically poop free. But there's no rinse involved 1:29:05.960 --> 1:29:10.519 or anything like that. But there's chunks along kidneys, you know, 1:29:10.800 --> 1:29:14.680 lots of congealed blood stuff like that, and that does 1:29:15.680 --> 1:29:18.320 I mean, it doesn't smell good on the way am, 1:29:18.400 --> 1:29:20.160 But I'll roast a batch or I'll just throw it 1:29:20.160 --> 1:29:22.920 all in the pressure cooker or roast it and then 1:29:22.920 --> 1:29:25.719 put it in the pressure cooker, and it is within 1:29:25.840 --> 1:29:30.800 five minutes of basically heating that stuff it you're ready 1:29:30.840 --> 1:29:35.479 to dig in. It's awesome. You're taking You're roasting in 1:29:35.520 --> 1:29:37.439 the oven the carcasses just to put a little brown 1:29:37.520 --> 1:29:40.640 on them. And then you're pressure cooking yours just just 1:29:40.720 --> 1:29:44.840 for the speed. For how long you're doing it half 1:29:44.880 --> 1:29:46.960 an hour, you know, because I'm trying to put a 1:29:46.960 --> 1:29:48.800 lot of liquid in there too, so and then you're 1:29:48.840 --> 1:29:51.640 siving it off and clarifying it and ship. Yeah, I'm 1:29:51.640 --> 1:29:54.880 not a big clarifying like the clarifying with the egg yolks. 1:29:54.880 --> 1:29:57.479 You don't do any now. No, I like it. Well, 1:29:57.720 --> 1:30:00.560 like the stock to look like it's gonna provide some 1:30:01.600 --> 1:30:06.080 cloud stock. Where are you guys at in the medical 1:30:06.080 --> 1:30:08.160 world right now about eating all kind of animal fat. 1:30:09.720 --> 1:30:13.400 Things seem to be in flux. Um, I know, like, 1:30:13.439 --> 1:30:16.759 for instance, with salt. I spoke to a nutrition researcher 1:30:16.800 --> 1:30:20.120 from Canada a few weeks back, and it seems like, 1:30:20.200 --> 1:30:23.120 you know, I guess they did the largest study ever, 1:30:23.760 --> 1:30:27.920 multinational study, you know, better high quality study, better ability 1:30:27.960 --> 1:30:31.360 to compute the data than ever before, and found that 1:30:31.479 --> 1:30:34.559 basic You know, everyone agrees that super high salt is bad. 1:30:34.560 --> 1:30:36.280 But I guess the question is where's the cut off? 1:30:36.800 --> 1:30:39.200 And the cut off this study suggested that cut off 1:30:39.200 --> 1:30:41.479 people have been giving is much too low. Like you 1:30:41.479 --> 1:30:43.479 can have more AsSalt than people have been saying and 1:30:44.200 --> 1:30:47.920 suffer no ill consequences. I do think, you know, there's 1:30:47.920 --> 1:30:50.799 a lot more coming out on saturated fat and stuff 1:30:50.840 --> 1:30:53.760 like that. I feel like the whole nutrition world is 1:30:53.800 --> 1:30:56.600 in flux, and people think doctors are a bunch of 1:30:56.680 --> 1:30:59.759 idiots on nutrition and they're correct. Um, I think people 1:30:59.760 --> 1:31:01.880 don't what to think, and honestly, most doctors don't want 1:31:01.920 --> 1:31:06.040 to think either, So I would say, eat animal fat. 1:31:06.720 --> 1:31:08.880 Do you picture a world in the future where all 1:31:08.880 --> 1:31:14.080 of a sudden, um, someone's like, damn sugar, lots of sugar, 1:31:14.280 --> 1:31:17.080 super good for you. Like one of the things that 1:31:17.080 --> 1:31:19.519 that we right now think are bad, that you think 1:31:19.560 --> 1:31:21.320 will always be bad. And what do you think are 1:31:21.400 --> 1:31:23.559 kind of basils when you look at it, Well, like 1:31:23.640 --> 1:31:27.600 saturated fat, cholesterol was and salt were sort of the 1:31:27.640 --> 1:31:31.400 old enemies. Um, and now it seems like sugar is 1:31:31.439 --> 1:31:34.160 more of an enemy. You know. Cholester the new and 1:31:34.200 --> 1:31:36.400 better I guess the thing is they're doing new, better 1:31:36.479 --> 1:31:40.439 and bigger studies with better methodology, better ability to compute 1:31:40.520 --> 1:31:43.280 and process the huge amounts of data, and they're finding 1:31:43.320 --> 1:31:45.000 that a lot of the old studies are not not 1:31:45.080 --> 1:31:47.840 so great. So, you know, cholesterol, eating it does not 1:31:48.080 --> 1:31:52.120 change your cholesterol. It's eating cholesterol does not change your cholesterol. Correct, 1:31:52.160 --> 1:31:55.280 it seems with the latest studies. That's why we thought 1:31:55.280 --> 1:31:56.760 bone marrows. I don't know what. I don't even know 1:31:56.760 --> 1:31:58.400 if it has a lot, but that's why we thought 1:31:58.400 --> 1:32:00.360 bone marrow was bad. I know it has a lot 1:32:00.400 --> 1:32:03.240 of saturated fat. I'm not totally sure about cholesterol content, 1:32:03.479 --> 1:32:06.160 but um, yeah, I mean I think I would say, 1:32:06.280 --> 1:32:08.960 if you're being truly scientific, you should never say network 1:32:09.080 --> 1:32:11.320 will never think sugar is good for you. I mean 1:32:11.360 --> 1:32:13.280 that you should never say never because you never know. 1:32:13.360 --> 1:32:15.400 I mean, you should do large studies and see what 1:32:15.479 --> 1:32:19.280 they show. But I kind of I eat saturated fat. 1:32:19.400 --> 1:32:20.760 I don't you know. I feel like when I was 1:32:20.760 --> 1:32:23.560 a medical student advising my primary care patients, it was 1:32:23.600 --> 1:32:27.000 sort of like, eat more greens, you know, but don't 1:32:27.200 --> 1:32:29.639 fry it in anything that will make it actually taste good. 1:32:29.800 --> 1:32:30.960 I feel like they're gonna be like, what are you 1:32:31.000 --> 1:32:33.080 kidding me? Like, I'm just gonna continue eating what I 1:32:33.120 --> 1:32:35.519 was like. Um, I feel like if you tell people like, 1:32:35.600 --> 1:32:38.200 fry your vegetables and bacon fat, they'll probably eat a 1:32:38.200 --> 1:32:42.280 lot more vegetables, and I think overall that might be healthier. 1:32:42.760 --> 1:32:45.280 Got got that's my own again, my own personal take. 1:32:45.320 --> 1:32:48.160 Every doctor has their own style, and the science is 1:32:48.240 --> 1:32:51.160 so in flux. The evidences in flux. I know you've 1:32:51.160 --> 1:32:55.840 had strictly carnivore people on this podcast before, Yeah, but 1:32:56.000 --> 1:32:59.519 I don't know that that's Yeah, it seems a little extreme. 1:32:59.560 --> 1:33:04.960 To me, I in my long absence from the podcast, 1:33:04.960 --> 1:33:10.040 have you guys covered the the recent find of like 1:33:10.200 --> 1:33:14.479 Paleo man and their diet, like all the interesting things 1:33:14.479 --> 1:33:21.080 that popped up and a big basically like of of 1:33:21.280 --> 1:33:25.679 like actual meal making, right and this just this concurring 1:33:25.720 --> 1:33:28.360 theme that we have, that long, long running theme of 1:33:28.760 --> 1:33:33.880 um like Neanderthal, right like, now we have a better 1:33:33.920 --> 1:33:38.960 picture of the fact that Neanderthal was combining ingredients at 1:33:39.000 --> 1:33:45.120 the old time versus this carnivore belief of it was 1:33:45.200 --> 1:33:48.559 just pure protein, animal protein, animal fat all the time 1:33:49.200 --> 1:33:52.400 or there was nothing. They're using grains and other things 1:33:52.479 --> 1:33:55.280 and making like what one might describe as a recipe 1:33:56.000 --> 1:33:59.400 right right, Like it's a we have a better picture 1:33:59.400 --> 1:34:03.120 now of that was very likely, which if you do 1:34:03.320 --> 1:34:06.040 think about it, like if you watch a small child 1:34:06.840 --> 1:34:10.960 or any other animal wander around like they're constantly try 1:34:11.000 --> 1:34:16.080 and stuff, it's hard to imagine Neanderthal was like nope, 1:34:16.680 --> 1:34:20.960 like I'd rather starve. Yeah, I think you need to 1:34:20.960 --> 1:34:23.679 take it into larger context of activity level and what 1:34:23.840 --> 1:34:26.240 you know, just the diet overall. But I feel like 1:34:26.240 --> 1:34:29.160 a mixed diet variety is good, you know, like the 1:34:29.160 --> 1:34:31.760 the Inuit ate a super high fat diet in the 1:34:31.800 --> 1:34:34.320 past and needed it. Do they need it today? You know, 1:34:34.560 --> 1:34:36.720 where they're not expending as many calories. I guess it's 1:34:36.720 --> 1:34:40.240 a totally different setting, a totally different contexts. So context 1:34:40.360 --> 1:34:43.840 is important for what the healthiest diet is. I got 1:34:43.840 --> 1:34:48.680 one last one for you Arctic explorers and others that 1:34:48.720 --> 1:34:53.960 would get vitamin A poisoning from eating polar bear liver. 1:34:54.479 --> 1:34:59.040 The hell does that mean? So? Um, you can overdose 1:34:59.160 --> 1:35:02.920 on the fat saw able vitamins which are A, D, E, 1:35:03.040 --> 1:35:06.960 and K. You cannot overdose on the water soluble vitamins, 1:35:07.000 --> 1:35:09.400 which are all the others, B, C and the rest. 1:35:09.520 --> 1:35:12.640 So the fat soluble I'm not totally sure why that is, 1:35:12.640 --> 1:35:15.840 but you can't overdose on any of those. And we 1:35:15.920 --> 1:35:19.760 all are the fat soluble ones A, D, E, and K, 1:35:20.920 --> 1:35:24.280 and you can overdose on them. So you could overdose 1:35:24.280 --> 1:35:26.040 in vitamin D as well, and that could make your 1:35:26.080 --> 1:35:28.320 calcium go very high and cause a whole lot of 1:35:28.360 --> 1:35:31.080 problems and other things. But um, so yeah, you can. 1:35:31.160 --> 1:35:34.320 You know, a lot of animals store, especially fat soluble 1:35:34.680 --> 1:35:38.720 nutrients in the liver, and the polar bear happens to 1:35:38.760 --> 1:35:41.160 store a lot of vitamin A, so you can overdose 1:35:42.040 --> 1:35:44.360 on it if I don't know how much, if you know, 1:35:44.400 --> 1:35:46.360 eat a molecule of it, If you eat a tiny 1:35:46.400 --> 1:35:48.759 little portion of polar bail level, you'll probably be fine. 1:35:49.160 --> 1:35:50.880 I'm not sure how much the lethal dose would be 1:35:51.160 --> 1:35:55.240 down might be? And why do they have so much 1:35:55.600 --> 1:35:58.880 vitamin A in their like? Do they have a vitamin 1:35:58.920 --> 1:36:01.360 A rich diet from eating all the all the marine 1:36:01.400 --> 1:36:05.160 mammals or something. I'm I'm not totally sure, to be honest. 1:36:05.200 --> 1:36:07.080 I mean, they eat a lot of very high fat 1:36:07.120 --> 1:36:09.920 diet um as all animals in the architect do, I guess, 1:36:09.920 --> 1:36:13.360 but they so. I'm sure they get a lot of it. Uh, 1:36:13.520 --> 1:36:15.320 but I don't know why they need so much or 1:36:15.320 --> 1:36:17.479 why they store so much on their liver, to be honest. 1:36:17.479 --> 1:36:19.679 But it's the only animal I know of where there's 1:36:19.680 --> 1:36:23.519 that vitamin overdose danger. He's not here right now, but 1:36:23.560 --> 1:36:29.479 our colleague seth h large pelagics large pelagic fish for 1:36:29.479 --> 1:36:33.400 about thirty days in a row and got mercury poisoning, 1:36:33.520 --> 1:36:38.840 or got some mercury poisoning, do you believe him? Um, 1:36:39.200 --> 1:36:42.720 his hands went numb. I'm not totally sure what was 1:36:42.760 --> 1:36:47.519 his mercury level, like memory issues too issues. His wife's 1:36:47.560 --> 1:36:49.519 hands got nome. She didn't mention it to him until 1:36:49.560 --> 1:36:51.400 he mentioned it to her, and she's like, oh my god, 1:36:51.439 --> 1:36:54.320 I've had the same problem. Did he go crazy? You 1:36:54.320 --> 1:36:57.120 know that mad? Hatters mad? Because he was no, but 1:36:57.200 --> 1:36:59.560 he went well, a little bit crazy, he went a 1:36:59.560 --> 1:37:02.680 little bit seth. He's gonna be here for trivia if 1:37:02.680 --> 1:37:05.280 you want to talk about it, then I'm curious what 1:37:05.400 --> 1:37:08.320 his what the blood levels showed another doing that? Now 1:37:08.520 --> 1:37:10.960 he just laid off, But I had him over there 1:37:11.120 --> 1:37:15.439 night at some bitches digging back in blue fin tuna belly. 1:37:16.520 --> 1:37:21.439 So basically eating blue fin tuna fat sounds okay. I 1:37:21.479 --> 1:37:23.320 don't know. I don't know a lot about it, but 1:37:23.560 --> 1:37:27.320 this guy's a cautious maybe in moderation, what insight can 1:37:27.360 --> 1:37:30.880 you provide on how a buck would taste different? Say 1:37:30.880 --> 1:37:33.640 you're hunting in Indiana. Peak rut is November twelve, you 1:37:33.680 --> 1:37:36.439 kill a buck on November twelve versus if you killed 1:37:36.439 --> 1:37:40.040 one on September one? Um, should those animals taste different 1:37:40.360 --> 1:37:42.840 like before the rut and during the rut? Yeah, like 1:37:42.880 --> 1:37:44.880 when when they're at like kind of a baseline of 1:37:45.479 --> 1:37:48.280 just have a very stable pattern of their hitting this 1:37:48.360 --> 1:37:50.960 cornfield every night. They're not chasing Doe's anything like that. 1:37:51.080 --> 1:37:55.519 Versus a buck who is rutting real hard in mid November. Well, 1:37:55.560 --> 1:37:58.000 I guess, and you're talking about just taste, not tenderness 1:37:58.040 --> 1:38:01.080 of it. Yeah, tenderness, taste anything. Well, I guess there's 1:38:01.080 --> 1:38:03.160 some thought about the hormones of the rut and what 1:38:03.200 --> 1:38:05.040 they can do to meet I guess. Do do the 1:38:05.080 --> 1:38:08.599 bucks lose weight also in the rut? Yeah? They kind 1:38:08.640 --> 1:38:11.040 of they throw caution to the wind, and they don't 1:38:11.120 --> 1:38:12.920 drink as much as they should, they don't eat as 1:38:13.000 --> 1:38:14.960 much as they should, they don't sleep as much as 1:38:15.040 --> 1:38:18.719 they should. Um. I would say it's like a stressor 1:38:19.080 --> 1:38:21.240 for them sort of because of the the activities they're 1:38:21.240 --> 1:38:24.200 participating in. Right. Well, I guess um I am also 1:38:24.240 --> 1:38:26.920 avoiding hunters at that period, right. I guess I've heard 1:38:26.920 --> 1:38:28.880 a lot about hormones, like, you know, just sort of 1:38:28.880 --> 1:38:32.320 the rut related hormones like testosterone and such versus the 1:38:32.360 --> 1:38:35.600 stressed out, running away and dying slowly hormones like adrenaline, 1:38:35.640 --> 1:38:37.960 cord is all other ones. I guess my understanding is, 1:38:37.960 --> 1:38:40.639 I don't that it's inconsistent in terms of I guess 1:38:40.680 --> 1:38:42.240 you guys would know more than I do about that, 1:38:42.280 --> 1:38:45.320 But it's inconsistent in terms of how it affects taste 1:38:45.800 --> 1:38:48.800 and tenderness UM. But I guess less fat, you know, 1:38:48.880 --> 1:38:53.760 intramuscular fat in particular or marbling um, contributes a lot 1:38:53.840 --> 1:38:56.200 to the quote unquote tenderness you feel in your mouth 1:38:56.240 --> 1:39:00.680 because you're biting through fat in addition of protein fibers um. 1:39:00.760 --> 1:39:03.599 So maybe losing less fat might affect the texture. Having 1:39:03.680 --> 1:39:05.680 less fat might affect the texture. I guess I'm not 1:39:05.720 --> 1:39:07.720 totally sure. I've heard meat scientists on this show and 1:39:07.760 --> 1:39:09.560 other shows talk about the role of hormones, and I 1:39:09.600 --> 1:39:14.479 guess I'm a little confused, and it seems inconsistent. How 1:39:14.520 --> 1:39:17.000 about specific to like the testicles. I've tried to take 1:39:17.080 --> 1:39:19.439 note of this, and I've never noticed a difference in 1:39:19.479 --> 1:39:23.480 taste between like a buck in September versus November versus January. 1:39:23.600 --> 1:39:26.040 Should I notice any taste or like texture difference with 1:39:26.120 --> 1:39:28.759 those when you're eating the bark nuts? Yeah, I wouldn't 1:39:28.760 --> 1:39:30.439 think so. I mean, there's a lot of those hormones 1:39:30.479 --> 1:39:32.320 are released into the blood stream, you know, there's not 1:39:32.360 --> 1:39:35.800 really a testosterone storage in the testicles, Unlike something like 1:39:35.840 --> 1:39:38.400 the thyroid, which has a lot of thyroid hormone stored 1:39:38.479 --> 1:39:41.400 in it ready to be released. The testicles just sort 1:39:41.400 --> 1:39:45.719 of released testosterone into the bloodstream. Um so I don't 1:39:45.760 --> 1:39:48.320 think that would you know, the hormone shouldn't. Should affect 1:39:48.320 --> 1:39:50.679 them the same it affects any other tissue that's being 1:39:51.000 --> 1:39:54.720 perfused by the testosterone containing blood. Testosterone is made in 1:39:54.720 --> 1:39:59.840 your testicle, is it? It is sperm is too? I get. 1:40:02.400 --> 1:40:06.000 Can can we speak about a bit about thyroid hormone? 1:40:06.320 --> 1:40:10.880 And then uh, what hormones you can and can't technically 1:40:11.000 --> 1:40:13.439 consume and why not? And then also like can you 1:40:14.000 --> 1:40:18.400 in the cooking process, like what what does that turn? 1:40:18.479 --> 1:40:22.559 I mean, do you like kill hormones when you cook meat? So? Sure, 1:40:22.640 --> 1:40:27.200 So there's this condition called hamburger thyroid toxicosis where you 1:40:27.240 --> 1:40:32.360 get dangerous or toxic dose of thyroid hormone in your hamburger. 1:40:32.800 --> 1:40:35.599 And there's some medical literature I read read a bunch 1:40:35.600 --> 1:40:37.880 of studies, Like in the eighties, I think it was 1:40:38.120 --> 1:40:42.120 in like Minnesota, Iowa, South Dakota area, there was a 1:40:42.120 --> 1:40:46.000 few slaughterhouses that were not dissecting the neck properly of 1:40:46.080 --> 1:40:50.400 the cows there slaughtering, and some thyroid tissue was ending 1:40:50.479 --> 1:40:52.439 up in the ground meat. And so if some of 1:40:52.439 --> 1:40:53.960 that ends up in the middle of the burger where 1:40:53.960 --> 1:40:56.000 you're cooking, at last, some of the thyroid hormone can 1:40:56.040 --> 1:40:59.760 survive intact to be swallowed by you. And unlike many 1:40:59.760 --> 1:41:03.120 horr armones, you can eat thyroid hormone. You know, many 1:41:03.280 --> 1:41:05.760 are broken down either in your intestines or by your 1:41:05.760 --> 1:41:09.120 liver before they get anywhere. But thyroid you can eat 1:41:09.200 --> 1:41:12.040 and it can arrive into your bloodstream intact and you 1:41:12.080 --> 1:41:15.960 know active, which is why um. You know, hormone replacement 1:41:16.000 --> 1:41:18.760 like thyroid replacement or pills, you can take them by mouth. 1:41:18.800 --> 1:41:21.880 And some people even take desiccated cow thyroid, which is 1:41:21.920 --> 1:41:25.479 literally dried cow's thyroid, and that provides you with the 1:41:25.560 --> 1:41:28.600 T three and T four um that you need to 1:41:28.640 --> 1:41:31.640 replace your underactive thyroid. So these so there was like 1:41:31.680 --> 1:41:35.360 an outbreak of thyroid, you know, high severe hyper thyroid 1:41:35.400 --> 1:41:37.599 ism to the point where makes your heart raise, makes 1:41:37.600 --> 1:41:41.400 you sweat, um, it makes you feel terrible horrible diarrhea 1:41:41.439 --> 1:41:44.360 and things like that. UM. And so that condition hamburger 1:41:44.400 --> 1:41:47.800 thyroid thyrotoxicosis is um you know, sort of well known, 1:41:47.920 --> 1:41:50.799 and it's actually also very common in dog chew toys 1:41:50.840 --> 1:41:53.679 because the gullet or the trait chea is often dried 1:41:53.760 --> 1:41:56.640 and given the dogs. It's just sort of toy and 1:41:56.680 --> 1:42:00.360 there's less oversight of the butchering process that goes to 1:42:00.439 --> 1:42:02.759 dog toys. Just like lungs, you know they're too dangerous 1:42:02.760 --> 1:42:04.960 for humans, but let the dogs eat them. So these 1:42:05.000 --> 1:42:07.960 two toys, there's actually often every few years like an 1:42:07.960 --> 1:42:11.160 outbreak of dogs getting hyper thyroidism. Well, how many hunters 1:42:11.200 --> 1:42:15.559 got to be grinding up a deer's thyroid? Probably a lot. 1:42:15.600 --> 1:42:18.639 I mean, but I butcher two deer earlier this week. 1:42:18.640 --> 1:42:21.559 Actually someone gave them to me and I was really 1:42:21.600 --> 1:42:23.519 looking in the neck. I could not find the thyroid. 1:42:23.560 --> 1:42:26.160 I don't know if it's very small or what. I'm 1:42:26.160 --> 1:42:29.680 not sure, but maybe it's so small, or maybe just 1:42:29.720 --> 1:42:32.960 people cook it's not as bad as with beef. Maybe 1:42:33.160 --> 1:42:37.920 Spencer makes this raw deer dish that we've all eaten before. 1:42:38.240 --> 1:42:40.599 Are you are you being careful because maybe like I 1:42:40.640 --> 1:42:44.760 had the sweats after eating that would not say being 1:42:44.800 --> 1:42:47.439 careful in trying to not have neck meat in her 1:42:47.560 --> 1:42:53.240 now tiger meats real heavy on the Yeah, there's also 1:42:53.320 --> 1:42:55.640 like you know, certain species hormones can be active in 1:42:55.680 --> 1:42:58.120 the human while others are not. So it could be 1:42:58.160 --> 1:43:01.519 that dear thyroid hormone is not active in humans as 1:43:01.680 --> 1:43:04.320 cow is. I do not know. If so, you could 1:43:04.360 --> 1:43:08.040 be eating you could get a cow's hormones and then 1:43:08.080 --> 1:43:10.360 they run in your body and act on your body 1:43:10.400 --> 1:43:12.679 and you're acting. That would be like a great would 1:43:12.720 --> 1:43:17.120 be like a great defense. If testosterone would I like 1:43:17.360 --> 1:43:19.720 start like growing hair out of my face if I 1:43:19.760 --> 1:43:22.599 was eating like buck nuts during the rut or like 1:43:22.680 --> 1:43:27.880 sashimi buck nutsa's testosterone digests right, correct, It's not not 1:43:27.960 --> 1:43:30.760 digest in the gut, but is processed in the liver 1:43:31.200 --> 1:43:34.599 and actually mostly turned to estrogen made. Which is why 1:43:34.640 --> 1:43:37.040 people when people say, like I was at a testical 1:43:37.080 --> 1:43:40.040 cooking contest in Serbia and all the men super drunk 1:43:40.120 --> 1:43:42.280 or like yeah, we're you know, getting viril or whatever, 1:43:42.479 --> 1:43:45.840 you know, it's actually yeah, it's actually they're getting loaded 1:43:45.880 --> 1:43:48.800 with estrogen probably. But the other thing is, you know, 1:43:48.800 --> 1:43:52.120 if you've ever seen like commercial testosterone preparations, it's usually 1:43:52.160 --> 1:43:55.760 like a foam or an injection. It's rarely pills UM 1:43:56.000 --> 1:43:58.160 and the pharmaceutical companies trying to you know, they take 1:43:58.160 --> 1:44:01.360 the testosterone molecule and try to add on little molecular 1:44:01.520 --> 1:44:03.519 branches to it to try to make the liver not 1:44:03.680 --> 1:44:05.400 act on it as much. And there is one called 1:44:05.439 --> 1:44:08.240 methyl testosterone that doesn't get broken down the liver, but 1:44:08.280 --> 1:44:11.240 it severely injures your liver, so it's no good. Um. 1:44:11.240 --> 1:44:13.040 But that's that's one of the holy grails. You know, 1:44:13.080 --> 1:44:16.759 if you could find an orally active and safe testosterone preparation, 1:44:17.240 --> 1:44:20.000 that would be a big hit. UM. So estrogen and 1:44:20.000 --> 1:44:23.000 progesterone you can eat and get into your body right 1:44:23.040 --> 1:44:25.880 the pill. It's a pill because it arises into your bloodstream. 1:44:25.920 --> 1:44:30.960 Active testosterone really mostly comes in foams, transdermal and injections. 1:44:31.200 --> 1:44:33.840 For that reason. Cortisol is active, you could take it 1:44:33.880 --> 1:44:36.600 by mouth. Insulin is not, you know, you have to 1:44:36.600 --> 1:44:39.760 inject it. But pig insulin used to you know, pig 1:44:39.760 --> 1:44:41.920 and cow insulin used to be the treatment for diabetes 1:44:42.360 --> 1:44:45.840 type one. UM, but it would have to be injected obviously, 1:44:46.080 --> 1:44:48.960 And now we have bacteria in vats churning out true 1:44:49.040 --> 1:44:51.120 human insulince, so we don't need to extract it from 1:44:51.120 --> 1:44:57.160 Pacreas of animals anymore? Man? Yeah? Uh think that Spencer? 1:44:58.320 --> 1:45:00.160 Do you think the long thing will get changed? That's 1:45:00.160 --> 1:45:02.640 what I'm wondering, Like in your lifetime, are folks going 1:45:02.680 --> 1:45:05.040 to be sailing lungs? Well, if we start a petition, 1:45:06.280 --> 1:45:09.479 do you get money from the hagas industry? I have 1:45:09.800 --> 1:45:12.280 written to them saying I want to join forces, not 1:45:12.360 --> 1:45:16.640 expecting any not expecting any communeration. But who do you 1:45:16.760 --> 1:45:18.360 right when you want to get ahold of hagues? People? 1:45:18.400 --> 1:45:21.439 So I've spoken to to. One is the former kind 1:45:21.439 --> 1:45:24.040 of the U s d A secretary version in the UK, 1:45:24.200 --> 1:45:26.679 who I spoke to on the phone, and another guy 1:45:26.760 --> 1:45:29.320 just by email with one of his like secretaries who 1:45:29.360 --> 1:45:32.400 answers the email. I think he's might have been acting 1:45:32.439 --> 1:45:35.880 at that time in a similar capacity. But every time 1:45:35.920 --> 1:45:37.479 they come to the US they try to convince the 1:45:37.560 --> 1:45:39.840 U s d A to change the rule. I guess 1:45:39.880 --> 1:45:41.519 at this point they've just given up. They're selling the 1:45:41.600 --> 1:45:43.760 lung free haggas. I love it that there's someone out 1:45:43.800 --> 1:45:45.400 there that you could call and be like, hey, I 1:45:45.400 --> 1:45:47.519 want to talk to about this long deal in the US, 1:45:47.600 --> 1:45:50.880 and they're like, oh, don't even get me started right, 1:45:51.000 --> 1:45:54.200 like someone that lives that problem. Yeah he was. He 1:45:54.320 --> 1:45:56.640 was in that tone. He was pissed about it. You know, 1:45:56.680 --> 1:46:00.120 he's like, well, the US gets upset when we know 1:46:00.439 --> 1:46:03.760 when we limit their food and drink exports or when 1:46:03.760 --> 1:46:05.640 we put extra rules on it. So why should they 1:46:05.680 --> 1:46:07.679 do that? And there's no evidence. And we've been eating 1:46:07.680 --> 1:46:10.160 this for generations in the UK, and we exported to 1:46:10.200 --> 1:46:15.160 many other countries. No one's ever reported a problem. You 1:46:15.200 --> 1:46:17.360 know how you need on your side the bottom of 1:46:17.400 --> 1:46:21.640 the horseshoe. Those folks are loudy extremists. Oh yeah. You 1:46:21.720 --> 1:46:27.280 get a bunch of hippies, a bunch of crazy right wingers, 1:46:27.280 --> 1:46:29.439 and you say, like say to the hippies, like, listen, 1:46:29.600 --> 1:46:32.559 it's all natural, man, it's as long as it's natural. 1:46:33.479 --> 1:46:34.600 And you go to the and you go to the 1:46:34.640 --> 1:46:37.160 other room. You'd like the government over each bro, who's 1:46:37.160 --> 1:46:39.360 the government telling you what to eat? Nothing bad has 1:46:39.360 --> 1:46:42.040 ever happened by putting radicals, by giving him a lot 1:46:42.080 --> 1:46:45.280 of power. Well no, I got him two separate rooms. Okay. 1:46:45.840 --> 1:46:47.880 He goes into the one room and brings says like, 1:46:47.920 --> 1:46:49.519 why why is the garment? Tell us about to eat? Man? 1:46:49.840 --> 1:46:51.320 We should eat more of this. If they're saying not 1:46:51.400 --> 1:46:53.720 to you go to the hippies, it's you switch your hat. 1:46:53.800 --> 1:46:57.679 It's all natural. Yeah, and mentioned the pharmaceutic of companies 1:46:57.680 --> 1:47:03.000 that both sides and you get this problem, takeing care 1:47:03.000 --> 1:47:04.840 of and then the hagues people will pay all the money. 1:47:06.680 --> 1:47:10.880 I'm not right. There is. There's usually some green. It's 1:47:10.960 --> 1:47:13.600 usually lungs, heart and liver, ground up stuff into the 1:47:13.600 --> 1:47:16.240 stomach and also mixed with um some kind of green 1:47:17.520 --> 1:47:21.360 sounds lish. Oh, we can't forget to talk about an 1:47:21.479 --> 1:47:24.439 enemy eats. Yes, well that's the last thing I was 1:47:24.439 --> 1:47:26.679 gonna do, is letting plug his stuff. Yes, talk about 1:47:26.720 --> 1:47:29.680 anatomy eats. Um. So, Anatomy Eats is kind of a 1:47:29.720 --> 1:47:33.400 dinner series that I started with one particular chef that 1:47:33.479 --> 1:47:36.360 I now worked with several different chefs, where we sort 1:47:36.400 --> 1:47:39.160 of one chef jealous when you did that. No, it was, 1:47:39.400 --> 1:47:41.880 I mean he's moved on to other things as well, 1:47:41.920 --> 1:47:45.040 but he I mean we're still sort of working together. 1:47:45.439 --> 1:47:47.639 We did a dinner about a year ago in Philly, 1:47:47.720 --> 1:47:49.800 so he I had heard he's a friend who's also 1:47:49.920 --> 1:47:53.280 chef and Philly. He had done a heart uh course 1:47:53.560 --> 1:47:56.559 at the Philly Free Public Library which has this great 1:47:56.600 --> 1:48:01.000 culinary space where they do um classes and cookbook authors 1:48:01.040 --> 1:48:03.679 come through and do sessions there as well on their 1:48:03.760 --> 1:48:06.479 you know, publicity tours. And so he was telling me 1:48:06.520 --> 1:48:08.080 how he did a course on the heart, and I 1:48:08.120 --> 1:48:10.040 was saying, oh, did you point out the valves and 1:48:10.080 --> 1:48:14.080 the coronary arteries and the different ventricles and atria, And 1:48:14.080 --> 1:48:15.880 he said, no, why don't you come do that next time? 1:48:15.880 --> 1:48:17.760 And so so we did. We ended up doing a 1:48:17.800 --> 1:48:20.400 dinner at a series of dinners at the library, did 1:48:20.400 --> 1:48:24.400 a cardiovascular system dinner where we served we served three 1:48:24.439 --> 1:48:27.519 species of heart cooked in three different ways. We served 1:48:27.520 --> 1:48:30.320 some blood sausage and blood cookies, which are sort of 1:48:30.320 --> 1:48:34.320 like whipped like meringue. Blood has a similar albumen profile 1:48:34.360 --> 1:48:36.000 to egg whites. You can kind of whip it, though 1:48:36.000 --> 1:48:38.360 it doesn't maintain its form as well, but it does 1:48:38.439 --> 1:48:40.960 to some extent. And bone marrow of course, where all 1:48:40.960 --> 1:48:43.520 the blood cells come from. Then we did a digestive 1:48:43.520 --> 1:48:46.200 system dinner where we did we serve tongue, and I 1:48:46.200 --> 1:48:48.719 talked about how digestion starts in the mouth. We served 1:48:48.720 --> 1:48:53.839 liver like a liver sausage with intestinal casing, and tripe 1:48:54.400 --> 1:48:56.840 and then finally we did a muscular skeletal dinner where 1:48:56.880 --> 1:49:00.960 we served like a tendon soup or now puffed tendon 1:49:01.280 --> 1:49:03.080 where it's sort of cooked and then thrown in hot 1:49:03.120 --> 1:49:06.840 oil and puffs up. Um, a bone broth soup, and 1:49:06.920 --> 1:49:10.200 two kinds of muscle cuts. One that was sort of 1:49:10.320 --> 1:49:11.920 you know, good for steaks, where you could cook it 1:49:12.080 --> 1:49:14.400 high dry heat, flip it over like a steak and 1:49:14.439 --> 1:49:17.120 eat it, versus one that required slow cooking, and we 1:49:17.160 --> 1:49:19.439 talked about connective tissue and things like that. And the 1:49:19.840 --> 1:49:22.040 steak cut was the skirt steak, which is of course 1:49:22.080 --> 1:49:25.479 the diaphragm, the main breathing muscle. Um. So then and 1:49:25.479 --> 1:49:27.519 then since I've done, you know, for each dish, I 1:49:27.520 --> 1:49:29.960 talked about the anatomy and physiology. I kind of talk 1:49:30.040 --> 1:49:33.439 about what's going on inside the people who are listening 1:49:33.840 --> 1:49:35.880 talk about their anatomy and how it relates to what 1:49:35.920 --> 1:49:39.760 they're eating. Gives some anecdotes from my medical practice, sometimes 1:49:40.520 --> 1:49:42.479 sort of gross ones. But you know, people who are 1:49:42.479 --> 1:49:44.600 coming to this dinner, you know, it's self selecting for 1:49:44.640 --> 1:49:47.200 people who are going to be okay with that. And um, 1:49:47.280 --> 1:49:49.479 so since then I don't didn't a dinner in d C, 1:49:49.720 --> 1:49:53.400 did a dinner in um Oxford, Mississippi with two great chefs, 1:49:53.479 --> 1:49:57.719 and did a dinner at a fourth dinner in Philly. Um. Yeah, 1:49:57.720 --> 1:50:00.240 so it's kind of exploring your own anatomy, understand ending 1:50:00.240 --> 1:50:03.519 how your own body works through eating oh fual and 1:50:03.560 --> 1:50:08.519 internal organs. You charge for that, Yes, it tends to 1:50:08.560 --> 1:50:10.640 be a little fancy. The one in d C was 1:50:10.720 --> 1:50:13.840 a Halloween theme. I was right around the hot time 1:50:13.880 --> 1:50:17.960 of Halloween and they did a drink pairings with each dish. Um. 1:50:18.000 --> 1:50:19.720 But the Halloween theme was fun because we got to 1:50:19.760 --> 1:50:23.320 talk about like mummies and how making a mummy from 1:50:23.360 --> 1:50:26.479 human flesh is basically the same as making charcuterie, just 1:50:26.600 --> 1:50:30.040 longer time spam. That's awesome. So how do people find 1:50:30.040 --> 1:50:31.720 out if they want to go to an anatomy Eats. 1:50:31.720 --> 1:50:34.800 You guys got a website, Yeah, anatomy eats dot com, 1:50:34.840 --> 1:50:40.800 anatomy eats at anatomy Eats on Instagram and Twitter and TikTok. Yeah. 1:50:41.200 --> 1:50:45.599 I don't know about little dances about it? Should there 1:50:45.680 --> 1:50:47.439 is there a special room in the back where you 1:50:47.479 --> 1:50:50.599 get to eat some lung, Like secretly, we did think 1:50:50.600 --> 1:50:56.120 about doing like an underground lung dinner, Like maybe people 1:50:56.120 --> 1:51:00.280 could buy shares in the lungs and sell. Um, yeah, 1:51:00.320 --> 1:51:03.000 we've thought about underground lung dinners and things like that, 1:51:03.080 --> 1:51:06.120 but yeah, well you could probably do it where like 1:51:06.200 --> 1:51:08.840 if people are I talked to a game ward and 1:51:08.880 --> 1:51:12.000 about this, I'm definitely not you know, like a proponent 1:51:12.040 --> 1:51:15.519 of it. But it's like if you attend one of 1:51:15.520 --> 1:51:20.400 these dinners, you're paying for let's say, like the other dishes, 1:51:20.560 --> 1:51:25.000 but like the lung could be potentially served in a 1:51:25.040 --> 1:51:30.479 way whereby like you, I think people do that, but 1:51:30.520 --> 1:51:32.519 you're getting a little cute that's kind of like a 1:51:32.600 --> 1:51:36.800 little cute. It's kind of like the da you're getting 1:51:36.800 --> 1:51:39.559 like oh no, no, no no, no, I didn't sell them 1:51:39.600 --> 1:51:45.439 that parted. Yeah, but when they walk in. There was 1:51:46.400 --> 1:51:48.320 businesses in New York City that we're doing that with 1:51:48.360 --> 1:51:51.519 marijuana that you could get it delivered to you, but 1:51:51.560 --> 1:51:53.640 you'd pay them like a hunter Bucks, right, um, and 1:51:53.920 --> 1:51:55.960 they would bring you like a candy bar, and then 1:51:56.320 --> 1:51:59.559 for free they would give you, you know, like a 1:51:59.640 --> 1:52:05.599 bryl exactly, a little baggy. Tell people about your books. Yeah, 1:52:05.640 --> 1:52:08.320 So my my first book, The Unseen Body, came out 1:52:08.320 --> 1:52:12.800 about a year ago. Um, and it's kind of exploration 1:52:12.840 --> 1:52:16.240 of the human body, um, tying tying it into my 1:52:16.320 --> 1:52:20.280 training as a medical student, my medical career, uh, my 1:52:20.360 --> 1:52:23.280 interest in food. Some of these Anatomy Eats topics show 1:52:23.320 --> 1:52:25.000 up in there as well, like the lungs and how 1:52:25.040 --> 1:52:28.200 I came to like liver, a lot of travel as well. 1:52:28.800 --> 1:52:31.840 Great story of me getting horrible diarrhe in India, which 1:52:32.000 --> 1:52:35.599 should be a bathroom scene in every memoir, I think, um, 1:52:35.720 --> 1:52:39.519 and uh, yeah, that's how we got on fresh airbitary growth. 1:52:40.040 --> 1:52:43.000 Very grateful for that. And um, my next book I 1:52:43.000 --> 1:52:46.040 think will be along the lines of Anatomy Eats, probably 1:52:46.240 --> 1:52:50.320 just sort of an exploration of anatomy through food that's 1:52:50.360 --> 1:52:52.519 eaten and prepared in different ways all over the world, 1:52:52.880 --> 1:52:55.120 kind of I imagine the table of contents will look 1:52:55.160 --> 1:52:58.280 like a medical textbook, similarly like Cardiovascular dinner digest sorry, 1:52:58.280 --> 1:53:03.240 cardiovascular system digestives, the endocrine system, reproductive system, and then 1:53:03.280 --> 1:53:05.080 just sort of an exploration of all the different body 1:53:05.120 --> 1:53:08.080 parts and how they are cooked throughout the world. And 1:53:08.080 --> 1:53:12.439 your books are on Amazon obviously, books on Amazon. Dr 1:53:12.560 --> 1:53:17.959 Jonathan Riceman, author of hit the title Again The Unseen 1:53:18.040 --> 1:53:21.320 Body that came out about a year ago. Yeah, it 1:53:21.400 --> 1:53:23.240 was kind of. Actually one of my favorite books of 1:53:23.240 --> 1:53:24.720 all time, which I've heard you talked about two is 1:53:24.840 --> 1:53:29.400 Arctic Dreams by Barry Lopez and I My idea of 1:53:29.400 --> 1:53:32.240 writing the book was to do an Arctic Dreams where 1:53:32.240 --> 1:53:34.920 it's an exploration of not the Arctic but the human body. 1:53:35.120 --> 1:53:36.680 So that's what I that's what I tried to do. 1:53:37.680 --> 1:53:40.400 I tried to emulate Barry Lopez, one of my favorite writers. Yeah, 1:53:40.439 --> 1:53:42.760 he's great man, a body man. On the other days, 1:53:43.240 --> 1:53:45.040 I had recommended it to him and he sent me 1:53:45.080 --> 1:53:49.120 about how blown away was by his passage on Polar Bears, 1:53:49.240 --> 1:53:53.720 which is astounding. So good. All right, thanks coming on 1:53:53.760 --> 1:53:56.040 the show, Maan, you're gonna stick around for trivia? Yes? 1:53:56.280 --> 1:53:59.800 Are you canna throw up a bone? Yes? M hmm. 1:54:01.360 --> 1:54:04.519 It seems unnecessary. I think he's going to do really well. 1:54:04.600 --> 1:54:06.040 If you have doctor in front of your name, you 1:54:06.040 --> 1:54:08.680 shouldn't get a get a bone thrown to you. Your 1:54:08.680 --> 1:54:14.120 whole life's been a bone thrown to you. Come on, 1:54:14.760 --> 1:54:16.280 what kind of bone are you throw You'd love it 1:54:16.320 --> 1:54:19.439 if you had doctor in front of your name. Dr Steve, 1:54:19.920 --> 1:54:24.479 question to me, question three? Only detail I'll give you 1:54:25.520 --> 1:54:28.160 stay two for trivia, where I beat Dr Jonathan Riceman 1:54:29.040 --> 1:54:33.680 soundly despite the bone and Brody. I thought a good 1:54:33.760 --> 1:54:35.720 joke about Brody and I was making my kids breakfast 1:54:35.720 --> 1:54:40.040 this morning. Did they think it was funny? Well, no, 1:54:40.080 --> 1:54:42.080 because you're doing pretty good on the scoreboard, you know, 1:54:42.120 --> 1:54:45.120 like that turn of the reigning champion. I was think 1:54:45.160 --> 1:54:50.520 about how you're the waning champion. Listen. It's we got 1:54:50.600 --> 1:54:54.640 all year to square things up. Man, I'm not waiting champion. 1:54:54.680 --> 1:55:24.640 That's so funny. Thanks. Yeah,