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Speaker 1: Warning this podcast today spoilers for the Last of Us

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Speaker 1: episode six and light spoilers for aunt Man in the

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Speaker 1: Lost Pontomania in our nerd Out section. Hello, my name

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Speaker 1: is Jason Concepcion and I'm Rosy Night and welcome the next

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Speaker 1: revision the Crooked Media podcast, where we dive deep into

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Speaker 1: your favorite shows, movies, comics, and pop culture.

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Speaker 2: In this episode, in the Airlock, we will be getting chili.

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Speaker 2: In the Last of US episodes, say heading to Wyoming

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Speaker 2: and in nerd Out, it's a theory from Listen to

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Speaker 2: Eli about a soutam part of ant Man in the

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Speaker 2: Wasp Quantumnia.

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Speaker 1: Of course, if you want to jump around, check out

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Speaker 1: the time stamps in our show notes. Up next, let's

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Speaker 1: go to a Beautiful Jackson that Chris, Beauty Thin Mountain

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Speaker 1: air We need to dive into the Last of Us

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Speaker 1: episode six. Folks were stepping out of the airlock and

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Speaker 1: that's right. The altitude is hitting us differently now getting

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Speaker 1: less oxygen, but also a red blood cell count is increasing,

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Speaker 1: and that's because we're in Beautiful Jackson, Wyoming for the

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Speaker 1: Last of Us episode six, titled Kin written by Craig Mason,

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Speaker 1: directed by Yasmila Zabinich. Another wonderful episode, and let's dive

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Speaker 1: into it. Three months after Joel and Allie escape from

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Speaker 1: Kansas City, we find them in Wyoming somewhere. It is

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Speaker 1: winter now. Joel and Ellie have broken into a hunting

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Speaker 1: cabin and there they briefly take an Indigenous couple hostage.

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Speaker 1: And I'll just say, it's wonderful to see Elaine Miles again,

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Speaker 1: who I yeah in the in the show Northern Exposure.

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Speaker 2: Two icons here, and it's really fun to see Graham

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Speaker 2: Green too. Like it's so great to see like two

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Speaker 2: indigenous actors that I love. How chill they are about it,

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Speaker 2: They're like, we're fine. The worries.

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Speaker 1: Elayne Miles bringing the the vibe of her character from

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Speaker 1: Northern Exposure Florence to this episode. I will say asterisks.

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Speaker 1: I haven't seen Northern Exposure since I was a child,

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Speaker 1: and I don't know if it holds up. So if

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Speaker 1: it doesn't hold up, I feel like I'm happy to

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Speaker 1: see but I'm happy to see Elaine back. Joel tells

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Speaker 1: the couple, Hey, I'm looking for my brother. He looks

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Speaker 1: a lot like me. And this is a really brief

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Speaker 1: kind of scene, but we learn a couple of important things.

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Speaker 1: One this couple has not seen Tommy, and two, anywhere

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Speaker 1: that people used to live in any kind of sizeable

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Speaker 1: population is now a no go zone. That includes former reservations,

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Speaker 1: that includes small towns, et cetera. And then thirdly, if

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Speaker 1: you go west of this river that's right over here,

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Speaker 1: you die. There's just bodies there. There, You see dead

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Speaker 1: infected there. You said see dead people there. Whoever it

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Speaker 1: is that's living on that side of the river kills

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Speaker 1: everyone that crosses it. And the couple tells Joel and Ellie,

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Speaker 1: if your brother's west of the river, he's gone, which

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Speaker 1: is not good.

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Speaker 2: But you know what, I really loved this sequence, not

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Speaker 2: just because two great actors, really nice character moment. It's

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Speaker 2: very good like representation of two people who've just survived,

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Speaker 2: but it really contradicts a usual zombie movie or comic

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Speaker 2: book trope. If Charles Xavier had turned up at this house,

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Speaker 2: or if Rick Grimes had turned up at this house,

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Speaker 2: nobody would have survived. From I love that they leave,

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Speaker 2: and they leave this couple to just keep surviving. That

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Speaker 2: was like a nice unexpected twist in this kind of opening.

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Speaker 1: I'm glad you bring that up because I also think

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Speaker 1: that this is the influence of certainly Ellie, maybe even Tess.

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Speaker 1: An earlier version of Joel would have just killed everybody

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Speaker 1: in the cabin.

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Speaker 2: He would have been like, you haven't seen my brother,

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Speaker 2: I don't believe you. Time to die and we'll kind

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Speaker 2: of see how this is a big episode, which is

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Speaker 2: really interesting because in a way, it's a very small, intimate,

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Speaker 2: kind of almost like a bottle episode, but it is not.

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Speaker 2: It's like it's this huge character moment for Joel where

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Speaker 2: we really get an expansion on his journey and where

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Speaker 2: it's left him, and we get to see something introduced

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Speaker 2: here that was kind of teased in the prologue of

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Speaker 2: the game that will obviously become like a major part

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Speaker 2: of the story going forward.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I agree, you know to the bottle episode part

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Speaker 1: of it this cold open, I guess you would call

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Speaker 1: it kind of is it What makes it kind of

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Speaker 1: feel like a bottle is that, you know, I think

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Speaker 1: that there's like a way of looking at like television storytelling,

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Speaker 1: or you'd look at this scene and go it kind

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Speaker 1: of doesn't need to happen. You learn a couple of

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Speaker 1: things about the river, but you never meet these these

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Speaker 1: characters end up not mattering, and you could have just

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Speaker 1: like had them show up at Jackson across the river

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Speaker 1: and then get and then get taken in. But I

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Speaker 1: think the thing that's cool about it is, unlike other

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Speaker 1: post apocalyptic shows, zombie apocalypse shows, you're getting a you're

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Speaker 1: getting a wide cross section of people who survived and

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Speaker 1: the different ways they survived. It's not just like this

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Speaker 1: group of survivors and everyone else that they run into

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Speaker 1: who they kill. It's all of these disparate groups spread

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Speaker 1: out across the country who have been making their way

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Speaker 1: in different in different you know, kind of ways, different

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Speaker 1: journeys they're taking to survive. And I thought that was

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Speaker 1: really cool.

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Speaker 2: That's a great point, and I think it's something that

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Speaker 2: got definitely, like our discord, very excited, because after this

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Speaker 2: episode a lot of people were talking about, like, well,

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Speaker 2: if you did a spinoff, what you saw all different

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Speaker 2: people all over the country and all over the world

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Speaker 2: how they survive, which again direct you back to Max

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Speaker 2: Brooks World war Z, which we've talked about because that's

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Speaker 2: a great example of it. But there is really something

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Speaker 2: very special about getting to see different kinds of people survive,

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Speaker 2: especially when in a lot of post apocalyptic stories you

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Speaker 2: see one kind of person, you see one.

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Speaker 1: You see one, you do a group of people that

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Speaker 1: made it. I because our discord has been talking about

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Speaker 1: World war Z, and because you bring it up here,

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Speaker 1: it brings the following question from World war Z to mind,

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Speaker 1: which is how does cold interact with the infected in

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Speaker 1: World war Z. Just for those of you haven't read it,

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Speaker 1: this is a slight spoiler from the book World Warz,

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Speaker 1: which is a really fun read. Winter time was the

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Speaker 1: time to kind of go on the offensive against the

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Speaker 1: zombies because they would freeze, and they would they would

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Speaker 1: lack the kind of mobility that they had in the summertime,

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Speaker 1: so you could just go out and just kind of

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Speaker 1: like spear them while they were frozen there on the ground.

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Speaker 2: And also you want freeze under the ice, and you're

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Speaker 2: trying to have these layers of ice that would melt.

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Speaker 2: And I'm very interested in this. I think there was

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Speaker 2: a really interesting discussion in the discord about basically like

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Speaker 2: would the cordyceps virus be able to essentially drive forward

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Speaker 2: like a frozen body and kind of because it's not

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Speaker 2: the same as a zombie, but it is still kind

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Speaker 2: of similar because of its only controlled by its brain.

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Speaker 2: I don't know. I think that as that heat does

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Speaker 2: exactly how does it not freeze?

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Speaker 1: I guess is my main question.

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Speaker 2: And the interesting thing that I would say is, I

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Speaker 2: do think that while this episode does not do like

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Speaker 2: a direct it does not give us a direct answer.

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Speaker 2: I do think it hints that living out in the

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Speaker 2: cold seems to be easier than living in like an

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Speaker 2: urbanized city where there's not a lot of snow. So

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Speaker 2: maybe there is a way that it finds. I mean,

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Speaker 2: think about it. Think about the ones that we saw

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Speaker 2: early on in Boston that were all laid on the

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Speaker 2: ground kind of connected to the hive mind. If they

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Speaker 2: got snowed over, surely they'd get frozen under that right,

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Speaker 2: right right.

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Speaker 1: And and surely like if that was if they're all

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Speaker 1: frozen up, now's the time you kind of go out

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Speaker 1: and try and kill them so that when the springtime

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Speaker 1: comes maybe you can just kind of like expand your

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Speaker 1: livable area. But who knows. Clearly the fact that that's

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Speaker 1: maybe not being done or has been tried and has

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Speaker 1: failed tells you that the cordysps is a lot more

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Speaker 1: hardy than maybe the show is telling us. Yeah, so

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Speaker 1: Joel and Ellie head out. Ellie steals a couple of rabbits,

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Speaker 1: which is not cool. I don't think that's cool, but

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Speaker 1: that's okay. I guess I don't.

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Speaker 2: I think they would have given them to them probably, honestly,

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Speaker 2: I think they.

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Speaker 1: Probably would have given them to but it shows. It

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Speaker 1: also kind of gives you the this relationship, this budding

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Speaker 1: relationship between Joel and Ellie. They're rubbing off on each other.

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Speaker 1: Joel is slightly mellowed, right, but also Ellie is, in

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Speaker 1: the words of Joel, doing what she had has to

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Speaker 1: do to survive, like, and she's impressed her. That's around it. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and it's kind of reluctant.

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Speaker 2: He's like, oh, you shouldn't have done it, but really

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Speaker 2: he's gonna eat those rabbits, you know.

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Speaker 1: And as they head out, all of a sudden, Joel

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Speaker 1: is struck by some kind of episode, which we eventually

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Speaker 1: learn is a Tony soprano style panic attack and anxiety attack.

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Speaker 1: And I think a really quite a good depiction of

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Speaker 1: an anxiety attack if anybody's ever had one. Yeah, there's

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Speaker 1: a lot what it's like you're like, I'm not breathing. Well,

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Speaker 1: now I'm scared. Am I having a heart attack?

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Speaker 2: I'm like, I'm having a heart attack. And they're like, well,

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Speaker 2: I can't breathe. If I think about I can't breathe,

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Speaker 2: then I'm not going to be able to breathe.

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Speaker 1: And now I'm a little sudd I'm so conscious of

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Speaker 1: my breathing and my fur aid and all of a sudden,

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Speaker 1: I'm freaking out. And that is exactly what it's like.

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Speaker 2: It's horrible, terrible, and they did a really good job.

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Speaker 2: And something I find really interesting about this is in

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Speaker 2: the prologue of the original Lost of Us Part one game,

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Speaker 2: you see that Joel is on like a number of

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Speaker 2: different meds and one of them is anxiety EMDs, And

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Speaker 2: then I feel like that's just a that's something that

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Speaker 2: was kind of like, Okay, that happened. But I always

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Speaker 2: I feel like a lot of people who played it

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Speaker 2: always thought like how much would that suck? Like if

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Speaker 2: you're you already have anxiety and then you're in the

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Speaker 2: fucking apocalypse, like that would just suck. And so many

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Speaker 2: of us struggle from anxiety or or suffer from PTSD

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Speaker 2: or all different kinds of kind of terrible things that

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Speaker 2: affect our day to day life when there's not you know,

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Speaker 2: infected hunting us down. And I'm very I was very

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Speaker 2: interested and surprised and kind of happy with the fact

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Speaker 2: that they decided to lean into this, and I.

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Speaker 1: Found it very interesting too.

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Speaker 2: I find it very interesting that this is where Joel's

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Speaker 2: anxiety comes out. It's about his family, it's about Tommy,

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Speaker 2: It's about Ellie. Like we've seen him do, fight against bloaters,

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Speaker 2: all this crazy stuff we saw Sam and Henry, but

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Speaker 2: it's something in him about finding Tommy or being with

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Speaker 2: Ellie that's kind of bringing it to the forefront again.

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Speaker 1: We will discuss this more further into the recap. X

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Speaker 1: Ray Vision will be back. Exciting news. What is it.

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Speaker 1: We just dropped some brand new merch for all of

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Speaker 1: you X ray Visions fans out there. It's a very

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Speaker 1: very cool X ray Vision was Right t shirt inspired

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Speaker 1: by the iconic Magneto was Right imagery from the early

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Speaker 1: two thousand's run of Marvel comics The X Men. Shouts

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Speaker 1: to my guy Magnus, he was right, and he's been

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Speaker 1: right for quite some time. And this is also a

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Speaker 1: reference not just to that but to the fact that

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Speaker 1: all our predictions are basically depending on how we interpret them. Right, obviously,

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Speaker 1: head to crook dot com slash store to get your

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Speaker 1: shirt now, and we're back now. As Ellie is watching this,

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Speaker 1: she's freaking out and she says, man, if you die,

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Speaker 1: I'm fucked. And Joel, you know, luckily manages to together.

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Speaker 1: It's just an anxiety attack. You just kind of waited out,

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Speaker 1: and they're fine. They camp at the river. Joel lets

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Speaker 1: Ellie have a little nip of the old alcohol, you know. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I know she's already committed murders and stuff, you know,

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Speaker 1: and see people like he shows somebody, Yeah, come on,

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Speaker 1: give her a little nip of the of the juice.

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Speaker 1: And they have a little bonding conversation. Assume we meet

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Speaker 1: the fireflies and managed to save the world. Ellie asks, uh,

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Speaker 1: what do we do then? You know, and she's like,

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Speaker 1: you know, you can go anywhere you want, you can

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Speaker 1: do anything you want. What are you going to do?

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Speaker 1: And uh, Joel is like, well, that's never been an option.

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Speaker 1: But eventually, in one of the more vulnerable moments I

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Speaker 1: think up to now, he volunteers that he'd like to

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Speaker 1: set up away from all people, which is not a

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Speaker 1: surprise to the surprising part comes, which is he'd like

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Speaker 1: to run a sheep branch, have some sheep out there

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Speaker 1: grazing on the hillside, and Ellie jokes that it's romantic.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, Joel gets some he gets some good Ellie shade

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Speaker 2: where he's like, they're quiet and they do what they're told.

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Speaker 2: Like he's like, always did this this. You could tell

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Speaker 2: that little crankiness between them, but really it's becoming that

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Speaker 2: loving banter.

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Speaker 1: Joel then asks Ellie the same question, and she gazes

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Speaker 1: up at the moon hovering above them, and that is

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Speaker 1: her answer, the moon outer space, And then they start

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Speaker 1: talking about astronauts. Apparently Ellie has a great interest in astronauts,

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Speaker 1: which makes sense, you know, the world being what it is,

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Speaker 1: you'd think about escape and when she was being raised

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Speaker 1: at the Federal Orphanage, she read all she could about

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Speaker 1: astronauts and she says, you know, my favorite astronaut is

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Speaker 1: Joel guesses Sally Ride. She's best astronaut name ever, and

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Speaker 1: then really pregnant pause here. Then Ellie wonders about her

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Speaker 1: immunity and the vaccine that could possibly be created from

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Speaker 1: her blood, and she says, you know, do you think

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Speaker 1: it would actually work? Would it work? And then she

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Speaker 1: heartbreakingly Now, and it's important to remember this is three

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Speaker 1: months later. Now, it's taken three months for her to

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Speaker 1: talk about this. She then tells Joel how she tried

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Speaker 1: to cure Sam by rubbing the blood into his wounds,

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Speaker 1: and she says, I know it was stupid, but I

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Speaker 1: wanted to save him. Joel then tells Ellie listen, Marlene,

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Speaker 1: for whatever, you know, whatever else she was, she was

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Speaker 1: really smart. If she says the firefly scientist can make

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Speaker 1: a vaccine, they can do it. Now. I don't truly

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Speaker 1: believe Joel means this, but I think it's also a

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Speaker 1: pretty big indicator of his growth as a person. Yes,

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Speaker 1: he's not previous to this before his experience with Ellie,

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Speaker 1: been the type of person who would like sugarcoat a thing.

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Speaker 1: But I think here he is, in a very dad

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Speaker 1: like way, trying to kind of sand the rough edges

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Speaker 1: off the truth, which is we don't know.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and I think he's really moved by what Ellie

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Speaker 2: tells him about Sam. Yeah, And I think he kind

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Speaker 2: of wants to He wants to make it a little

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Speaker 2: bit easy for her to give her that little bit

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Speaker 2: of hope that he doesn't have. It's kind of the

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Speaker 2: inversion of when he just wouldn't believe at the beginning.

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Speaker 2: Now he wants Ellie to believe, even if he's not

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Speaker 2: sure if it's true or not.

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Speaker 1: Here's a really small moment, but I thought one was

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Speaker 1: really evocative of like what's going on with Joel right now.

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Speaker 1: So they're going to sleep. Ellie is like, I'll take

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Speaker 1: the second watch. Joel is like, mister dad, mister tough

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Speaker 1: guy is like, no, no, I'll take both. And then

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Speaker 1: he says, hey, why don't you while you're sleeping dream

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Speaker 1: about sheep branches on the moon. She says she will,

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Speaker 1: and then of course when Joel wakes up, what happens.

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Speaker 1: He fell asleep during second watch and Ellie had to

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Speaker 1: do it. And it's just this very small microcosm of

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Speaker 1: what's going on with Joel in this episode, which is

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Speaker 1: he's getting older, he's losing a step, or certainly he's

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Speaker 1: worried that he's losing a step and is not able

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Speaker 1: to be the man that he was. But he's also

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Speaker 1: not comfortable about letting Ellie know just how scared that

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Speaker 1: he is that he is getting older and losing it,

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Speaker 1: and he gets into her about the fact that he

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Speaker 1: was angry' that's his way of hiding his fear. He's angry,

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Speaker 1: he's pissed off.

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Speaker 2: I'm responsible for you liked And she's like, don't don't

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Speaker 2: want to sleep that? Yeah, come on that point at

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Speaker 2: this point, like that's what he doesn't want to admit,

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Speaker 2: and then she tells him all the things that she

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Speaker 2: learned from him that she did while he was asleep.

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Speaker 2: I checked my six I looked for tracks, I went

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Speaker 2: to the highest point to set up my watch. And

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Speaker 2: she says, what can I say, I'm a natural, And

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Speaker 2: again Joel kind of remains pissed, but you can also

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Speaker 2: tell he's a little impressed. There's not He's reluctantly impressed.

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Speaker 2: They then set up on the river for a while

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Speaker 2: and watch it for what I would imagine was you know,

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Speaker 2: an hour, a couple of hours, just to see what

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Speaker 2: would happen. Joel fires a shot just to see if

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Speaker 2: anybody's gonna come investigate it.

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Speaker 1: Well, you know what's gonna happen. Nothing happens. So they

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Speaker 1: cross the bridge. Ellie is is whistling as they cross

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Speaker 1: the bridge, and she's thinking about, you know, like what

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Speaker 1: would it take to be a good hunter. She thinks

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Speaker 1: she'd be good at it. They come to a hydroelectric dam.

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Speaker 1: Joel kind of explains the principle of what it used

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Speaker 1: to do, and they kind of move on, and at

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Speaker 1: this point Ellie raises the posse. They come to another river,

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Speaker 1: at which point Ellie raises the possibility that one they

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Speaker 1: don't quite know where they are.

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Speaker 2: She's like, which one is the river of two?

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Speaker 1: Is this the river of death? And then it's only

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Speaker 1: moments after that that they are completely surrounded by armed

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Speaker 1: figures on horseback. The horse folks bring a dog out

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Speaker 1: and the dog will test whether Joel and Ellie are infected. Uh,

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Speaker 1: and there are some really tense moments Joel, of course,

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Speaker 1: Joel has another panic attack right here. Then they send

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Speaker 1: the dog at Ellie and it is it's extremely fraught,

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Speaker 1: but Ellie comes up clean and not only that, but

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Speaker 1: the dog seems to really like her. Yeah.

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Speaker 2: I found this really interesting because it kind of like

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Speaker 2: it tells us so much about the the state of

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Speaker 2: Ellie's infection without really telling us anything. The fact that

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Speaker 2: the dog can't smell it means that she is truly clear, right, right.

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Speaker 1: What theate whatever the amount of fungus in her system is,

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Speaker 1: it's an amount that cannot be detected by a dog,

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Speaker 1: and it's certainly not enough to get her to get

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Speaker 1: her sick.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm so interested in it because I'm like, would

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Speaker 2: she still come up positive on the federal tests? And

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Speaker 2: how outdated were those tests and how many people did

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Speaker 2: they miss? You know, it's I just think it's so interesting,

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Speaker 2: and I love that moment where yeah, like the dog

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Speaker 2: just loves her, Yeah, and there's just this instant connection.

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Speaker 1: Then Joel is like, hey, I'm looking for my brother,

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Speaker 1: and then a woman rides up and says, wait, what's

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Speaker 1: his name? And next thing you know, the group is

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Speaker 1: taking Joel and Ellie back to their home. Jackson, Wyoming,

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Speaker 1: now a fortified town with this big palisade wall around it,

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Speaker 1: and the places is buzzin'.

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Speaker 2: I mean, it's like it's like pre full civilization in there.

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Speaker 1: Let's look it up right now, the population of Jackson, Wyoming,

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Speaker 1: it is apparently ten thousand, let's call it eleven. There's

355
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Speaker 1: certainly not a li seven thousand people there, but it

356
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Speaker 1: looks that's a lot like it looks like an active

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Speaker 1: town with kids and men and women of all ages,

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Speaker 1: all wandering around doing stuff, going to and fro, certainly

359
00:20:13,440 --> 00:20:16,560
Speaker 1: not wanting for anything. The hydroelectric dam, it turns out,

360
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Speaker 1: is supplying this town with all the electricity it needs.

361
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Speaker 1: They have hot water, they have everything they could possibly want.

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Speaker 1: And as they're walking in, who does Joel see working

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Speaker 1: on a scaffolding, like working construction as he used to

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Speaker 1: do his brother Tommy, And they embrace and Tommy's like,

365
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Speaker 1: what the fuck are you doing here? And Joel is like,

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Speaker 1: I came here to save you. By the way, it

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Speaker 1: looks like Tommy doesn't need saving.

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Speaker 2: He's fine, It's like and Joel and Ellie are like

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Speaker 2: in shock because this is yes, this is not just

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Speaker 2: as we'll come to find out, this is not just

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Speaker 2: like a great place in the context of post fedra.

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Speaker 2: This is a great place pre like this is something

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Speaker 2: here that is really special and feels very sustainable, but

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Speaker 2: as we learn, it's at the cost of being like

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Speaker 2: extremely exclusionary because you call them risk letting other people in.

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Speaker 1: Later on, they're at the cafeteria, Joel and Ellie are

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Speaker 1: eating what looks like a delicious stew under the watchful

378
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Speaker 1: gaze of Tommy and his partner Maria, the woman who

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Speaker 1: was in that party that surrounded Joelinellie previously, Ellie kind

380
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Speaker 1: of like snaps at a girl who's like watching her.

381
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Speaker 1: It's like very interest her, and then Maria is like, hey,

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Speaker 1: like they're just curious because kids around here don't look

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Speaker 1: her talk like you at which and this was like, listen,

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Speaker 1: this is a this is a really fun episode of

385
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Speaker 1: of a great show. This was the one line where

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Speaker 1: I was like, do they not look her? First of all,

387
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Speaker 1: who has heard Ellie talk like she just got here?

388
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Speaker 1: Second of all, she honestly looks like every other kid here.

389
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Speaker 2: I think it's because she's swearing, Like is what they mean?

390
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Speaker 2: Like she's like aggressive and like I swear.

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Speaker 1: Other kids not traumato.

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Speaker 2: I guess maybe they they say I think they say

393
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Speaker 2: they've been there for like seven years or something, So

394
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Speaker 2: I guess I guess there who've never seen infected, but.

395
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Speaker 1: Their parents are out there like slaughtering the raiders who

396
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Speaker 1: crossed the river and like posting their corpses on the

397
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Speaker 1: banks of.

398
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Speaker 2: Right, I think, But yeah, let's talk about quickly. Let's

399
00:22:26,920 --> 00:22:29,479
Speaker 2: talk about the girl because this girl who's staring at

400
00:22:29,480 --> 00:22:33,040
Speaker 2: Ellie has like become a huge talking point and on

401
00:22:33,080 --> 00:22:37,640
Speaker 2: the podcast, Mason and Druckmen were very coy about this.

402
00:22:37,760 --> 00:22:39,080
Speaker 2: But a lot of people think this.

403
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Speaker 1: Is Dina, I think from the Last of.

404
00:22:41,320 --> 00:22:43,320
Speaker 2: Us Part two, and I think I think so too.

405
00:22:43,400 --> 00:22:45,680
Speaker 2: Dina is a huge part of the part two of

406
00:22:45,720 --> 00:22:47,359
Speaker 2: the game who will come into Ellie's life, and I

407
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Speaker 2: think that that that is probably where we just met her.

408
00:22:50,200 --> 00:22:52,240
Speaker 2: But yeah, I thought that it was line was very

409
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Speaker 2: interesting too, And that was actually I can't tell if

410
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Speaker 2: they were red herring us like, because that line gave

411
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Speaker 2: me like a creepy like, oh, maybe this is going

412
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Speaker 2: to be like a Walking Dead style like accountibals. Well

413
00:23:04,440 --> 00:23:09,720
Speaker 2: they recall but exactly I think, But that was like

414
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Speaker 2: the moment when she said that, I was like, what

415
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Speaker 2: does she mean?

416
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Speaker 1: Like just one line that kind of stuck out as

417
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Speaker 1: like I don't quite understand, Like I also got the

418
00:23:18,200 --> 00:23:21,960
Speaker 1: kind of cult vibes, yeah, because it's like what is

419
00:23:22,040 --> 00:23:24,879
Speaker 1: what exactly does that mean? Like Ellie asks for a

420
00:23:24,880 --> 00:23:28,479
Speaker 1: gun back and she and Maria's like, oh, that's another thing.

421
00:23:28,480 --> 00:23:31,600
Speaker 1: They don't carry guns, which one Ellie didn't come into

422
00:23:31,680 --> 00:23:34,120
Speaker 1: town with her gun, like they'd taken her gun from her.

423
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Speaker 1: And two, you tell me, these people that live out

424
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Speaker 1: here killing raiders all the time don't teach their kids

425
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Speaker 1: to like control. I am pro gun control, but I

426
00:23:43,960 --> 00:23:46,320
Speaker 1: guarantee you these people are teaching little kids how to

427
00:23:46,320 --> 00:23:50,960
Speaker 1: shoot out definitely. Anyway, Ellie asked for her gun back.

428
00:23:51,000 --> 00:23:54,960
Speaker 1: It's a no dice situation there. It's getting a little tense.

429
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Speaker 1: Tommy tries to kind of cool everybody down. Ellie notes,

430
00:23:59,640 --> 00:24:02,800
Speaker 1: kind of literally and truthfully that hey, you know, before

431
00:24:03,560 --> 00:24:07,399
Speaker 1: they brought us back here, Maria and your friends were

432
00:24:07,640 --> 00:24:10,240
Speaker 1: quite ready to like line us up and shoot us.

433
00:24:10,840 --> 00:24:12,800
Speaker 1: And Tommy says, hey, you know, like you can never

434
00:24:12,840 --> 00:24:16,760
Speaker 1: be too careful to your point, like, it's this we've got.

435
00:24:16,920 --> 00:24:18,720
Speaker 1: They've got a good thing going in here, and the

436
00:24:18,800 --> 00:24:21,560
Speaker 1: last thing they need is letting people in who want

437
00:24:21,600 --> 00:24:24,440
Speaker 1: to either destroy it or want to share it with

438
00:24:24,480 --> 00:24:26,119
Speaker 1: people who destroy it, So they have to be very,

439
00:24:26,200 --> 00:24:30,439
Speaker 1: very careful. And then Maria says, well, yeah, you know,

440
00:24:30,560 --> 00:24:36,440
Speaker 1: like we do kill raiders, and we absolutely display their

441
00:24:36,480 --> 00:24:39,000
Speaker 1: bodies on the banks of the river as a warning

442
00:24:39,040 --> 00:24:43,040
Speaker 1: to others, confirming what the indigenous couple told them earlier

443
00:24:43,040 --> 00:24:44,080
Speaker 1: in the episode.

444
00:24:44,000 --> 00:24:46,360
Speaker 2: Tommy says something like just because you have a bad

445
00:24:46,400 --> 00:24:49,320
Speaker 2: reputation doesn't mean you're bad. And there's this kind of

446
00:24:49,359 --> 00:24:52,800
Speaker 2: like really knowing look between like Maria and Joel and

447
00:24:53,080 --> 00:24:57,000
Speaker 2: Tommy and Joel about like what Joel's reputation obviously is,

448
00:24:57,040 --> 00:24:59,600
Speaker 2: and that kind of comes into play as the episode

449
00:24:59,640 --> 00:25:02,160
Speaker 2: goes on. So I found that very interesting. But yeah,

450
00:25:02,160 --> 00:25:04,800
Speaker 2: this was like a very unexpected It's very different from

451
00:25:04,800 --> 00:25:08,399
Speaker 2: the Tommy's Damn segment in the first game. But as

452
00:25:08,440 --> 00:25:10,520
Speaker 2: Masillis was kind of mentioning, it kind of seems to

453
00:25:10,560 --> 00:25:13,919
Speaker 2: be taking more from a version that we see in

454
00:25:13,920 --> 00:25:14,760
Speaker 2: in part two.

455
00:25:15,400 --> 00:25:17,760
Speaker 1: Yeah, well, we'll get back to this when it happens

456
00:25:17,800 --> 00:25:21,000
Speaker 1: in the recap. But to your point, the fact that

457
00:25:21,080 --> 00:25:25,360
Speaker 1: Joel has a reputation in this context, in this context

458
00:25:25,440 --> 00:25:27,960
Speaker 1: where a woman just very casually is like, yeah, we

459
00:25:28,040 --> 00:25:30,199
Speaker 1: kill people and we throw their fucking corpses out there

460
00:25:30,240 --> 00:25:33,400
Speaker 1: so everyone can see them. The fact that to them

461
00:25:34,320 --> 00:25:38,800
Speaker 1: Joel is a fucked up guy exactly exactly. He did

462
00:25:38,960 --> 00:25:44,879
Speaker 1: some stuff, He did some crazy, really bad shit. Joel

463
00:25:44,920 --> 00:25:46,680
Speaker 1: then says, hey, Marien, can can I talk to my brother?

464
00:25:46,720 --> 00:25:50,280
Speaker 1: And like this is a family affair, and Tommy's like, well, actually,

465
00:25:51,640 --> 00:25:56,600
Speaker 1: Maria is family and ps. As we will soon learn

466
00:25:56,640 --> 00:26:00,399
Speaker 1: in the episode, she's pregnant with his child. Then Maria

467
00:26:00,480 --> 00:26:05,200
Speaker 1: and Tommy take them on the tour. Maria tells Joel that,

468
00:26:05,480 --> 00:26:08,760
Speaker 1: as you mentioned, they've been here about seven years. Town

469
00:26:08,800 --> 00:26:12,800
Speaker 1: has been steadily growing since then. Raiders are a problem

470
00:26:13,280 --> 00:26:19,040
Speaker 1: basically all the time, infected less so, and then Tommy

471
00:26:19,119 --> 00:26:21,800
Speaker 1: braggs that, like, hey man, I've still got it, Like

472
00:26:21,840 --> 00:26:25,320
Speaker 1: I can shoot infected, headshot him from half a mile away,

473
00:26:25,320 --> 00:26:29,680
Speaker 1: it's no problem. Ellie is like, oh, I would love

474
00:26:29,720 --> 00:26:32,240
Speaker 1: to learn how to headshot effected from half a mile away.

475
00:26:33,440 --> 00:26:37,520
Speaker 1: Maria then tells Joel that, you know, you know, as

476
00:26:37,560 --> 00:26:40,680
Speaker 1: we discussed previously, we need to keep this as quiet

477
00:26:40,720 --> 00:26:42,600
Speaker 1: as possible. We don't let people know what we have,

478
00:26:42,760 --> 00:26:46,159
Speaker 1: we don't discuss our presence on the radio, and when

479
00:26:46,160 --> 00:26:48,600
Speaker 1: when we venture out, we make sure we're not followed,

480
00:26:48,640 --> 00:26:54,280
Speaker 1: all those kind of things. And then she says, kind

481
00:26:54,280 --> 00:26:57,120
Speaker 1: of giving us a window into the culture of the town.

482
00:26:57,160 --> 00:27:01,640
Speaker 1: This is a multi faith democracy. There's a ruleing. Ruling

483
00:27:01,760 --> 00:27:03,399
Speaker 1: is probably not the word that they would use, but

484
00:27:03,400 --> 00:27:05,399
Speaker 1: I'll just use it here. It's like a ruling board

485
00:27:06,000 --> 00:27:09,960
Speaker 1: that sets you like a democratic he voted all democratically

486
00:27:10,080 --> 00:27:13,400
Speaker 1: voted in. There's about three hundred people that live here

487
00:27:13,440 --> 00:27:17,879
Speaker 1: now and they live according to communal principles. There's a school,

488
00:27:17,920 --> 00:27:20,200
Speaker 1: there's a laundry, We're about to see a movie theater.

489
00:27:20,280 --> 00:27:25,119
Speaker 1: Power comes from the hydroelectric jam. And then this is

490
00:27:25,240 --> 00:27:29,080
Speaker 1: really really funny. Joel is like, uh, see, all are communists.

491
00:27:29,680 --> 00:27:32,600
Speaker 1: And then Tommy, who again you know, fought in the

492
00:27:32,720 --> 00:27:36,280
Speaker 1: in the Gulf War One and was a US soldier

493
00:27:36,960 --> 00:27:41,280
Speaker 1: and has you know, has some very very American centric

494
00:27:41,400 --> 00:27:43,600
Speaker 1: views on what the word communism means.

495
00:27:43,600 --> 00:27:45,600
Speaker 2: It's like, man, he's like nothing.

496
00:27:48,800 --> 00:27:54,520
Speaker 1: Literally in a commune communists literally there literally every piece

497
00:27:54,520 --> 00:27:56,400
Speaker 1: of property here is basically public.

498
00:27:56,760 --> 00:27:59,080
Speaker 2: Yeah, I like everybody's shed ownership.

499
00:27:59,240 --> 00:28:00,359
Speaker 1: Well, so I saw tweet.

500
00:28:00,440 --> 00:28:02,359
Speaker 2: I'm sorry to the whoever tweeted this, but I felt

501
00:28:02,359 --> 00:28:04,120
Speaker 2: like it really summed up the power of this show,

502
00:28:04,119 --> 00:28:08,720
Speaker 2: where it was like The Walking Dead took twelve seasons

503
00:28:08,760 --> 00:28:11,199
Speaker 2: to tiptoe around the fact that the only way to

504
00:28:11,240 --> 00:28:14,199
Speaker 2: rebuild after his zombie apocalypse would be communism, but they

505
00:28:14,240 --> 00:28:17,200
Speaker 2: never said it, and six episodes in the Last of

506
00:28:17,280 --> 00:28:20,359
Speaker 2: Us was just like communism, that's the only way you

507
00:28:20,359 --> 00:28:20,959
Speaker 2: could survive.

508
00:28:21,040 --> 00:28:25,320
Speaker 1: Afterwards, Maria sets Joel and Ellie up with a beautiful home,

509
00:28:25,600 --> 00:28:30,480
Speaker 1: like a beautiful house, and then Maria takes Ellie to

510
00:28:30,600 --> 00:28:32,680
Speaker 1: go kind of like see the house so that Joel

511
00:28:32,720 --> 00:28:35,480
Speaker 1: and Tommy can catch up. Tommy takes Joel to a

512
00:28:35,520 --> 00:28:40,479
Speaker 1: bar gives him some apparently real tasting liquor. Wow, and

513
00:28:40,520 --> 00:28:43,480
Speaker 1: then it's like, hey, so what's gone on with tests

514
00:28:43,480 --> 00:28:47,120
Speaker 1: where she and Joel lies. He says, oh, she's fine,

515
00:28:47,280 --> 00:28:52,480
Speaker 1: he's not ready subject, Let's talk about something else. Ellie. Oh,

516
00:28:52,560 --> 00:28:56,800
Speaker 1: she is the daughter of some high ranking firefly person,

517
00:28:57,000 --> 00:28:59,920
Speaker 1: and you know, there's like I'm reuniting with her family.

518
00:29:00,160 --> 00:29:03,920
Speaker 1: Tommy is clearly suspicious, but he tells his brother that

519
00:29:05,000 --> 00:29:07,360
Speaker 1: the Fireflies are kind of nearby. They're about a day's

520
00:29:07,400 --> 00:29:10,760
Speaker 1: ride away at the University of Eastern Colorado and they

521
00:29:10,760 --> 00:29:14,720
Speaker 1: have a base there. Uh and like this needs saying,

522
00:29:14,760 --> 00:29:16,440
Speaker 1: but of course we got to say it. It is

523
00:29:16,520 --> 00:29:20,360
Speaker 1: fucked up country between Jackson and the campus, of course.

524
00:29:20,960 --> 00:29:23,600
Speaker 2: And he says, he says, it's like bad bad, this

525
00:29:23,720 --> 00:29:25,120
Speaker 2: is like very bad hit.

526
00:29:27,480 --> 00:29:30,400
Speaker 1: And then Joel's like, well, you know, it wouldn't be

527
00:29:30,600 --> 00:29:33,400
Speaker 1: quite so bad if you came with us, because mister

528
00:29:33,800 --> 00:29:37,320
Speaker 1: like I can snipe targets from half a mile away,

529
00:29:37,440 --> 00:29:40,040
Speaker 1: Like if we had your skills at our side, it

530
00:29:40,040 --> 00:29:43,040
Speaker 1: wouldn't be a problem. And Tommy's like, I can't because

531
00:29:43,120 --> 00:29:45,840
Speaker 1: and now here comes the Reviewal Marie is pregnant with

532
00:29:45,880 --> 00:29:48,480
Speaker 1: my baby, and I gotta be around. I got to

533
00:29:48,520 --> 00:29:52,080
Speaker 1: be a present father. And Joel's like what Joel's like,

534
00:29:52,200 --> 00:29:55,360
Speaker 1: fuck you, like like a parsonal slight.

535
00:29:56,600 --> 00:29:59,000
Speaker 2: It's very painful to him.

536
00:29:59,400 --> 00:30:07,400
Speaker 1: Now that is perfectly reasonable and in fact, healthy, non toxic, wonderful,

537
00:30:07,760 --> 00:30:11,720
Speaker 1: egalitarian thing to be, like, Hey, I don't want to

538
00:30:12,640 --> 00:30:15,520
Speaker 1: My wife is pregnant. She's gonna be dealing with a

539
00:30:15,560 --> 00:30:17,280
Speaker 1: lot during that time, and I want to help make

540
00:30:17,320 --> 00:30:22,000
Speaker 1: that burden easier. And Tommy, now you can tell like

541
00:30:22,040 --> 00:30:25,480
Speaker 1: a door is opened to things that Tommy has been

542
00:30:25,560 --> 00:30:28,040
Speaker 1: dying to talk about with someone that he's close to.

543
00:30:28,480 --> 00:30:30,480
Speaker 1: And so he says, yeah, man, I wonder if I'll

544
00:30:30,480 --> 00:30:32,680
Speaker 1: be a good dad. You know this whole that is

545
00:30:33,080 --> 00:30:37,600
Speaker 1: that is the doorway to a very big, substantive conversation

546
00:30:37,720 --> 00:30:41,320
Speaker 1: that Tommy is ready to have. And then Joel is

547
00:30:41,600 --> 00:30:46,040
Speaker 1: just not ready to have. He is completely emotionally unavailable,

548
00:30:46,640 --> 00:30:48,840
Speaker 1: and he just says, well, I guess we'll find out.

549
00:30:50,280 --> 00:30:53,320
Speaker 2: Tommy is like heartbroken, like he is like as he's

550
00:30:53,400 --> 00:30:56,440
Speaker 2: ready to knoock him out, Like yeah, but I will

551
00:30:56,480 --> 00:30:58,840
Speaker 2: say I will say, look, one thing that we haven't

552
00:30:58,880 --> 00:31:02,360
Speaker 2: really touched on here. Yeah, Joel has been worried about

553
00:31:02,360 --> 00:31:04,880
Speaker 2: Tommy for like a really long time, and he's come

554
00:31:04,960 --> 00:31:08,320
Speaker 2: halfway across the country and Tommy's just living the high life,

555
00:31:08,440 --> 00:31:11,959
Speaker 2: watching movies in the theater. There's a Christmas tree, you

556
00:31:11,960 --> 00:31:16,160
Speaker 2: know in it. Ironically, he is doing what Joel always says,

557
00:31:16,200 --> 00:31:18,080
Speaker 2: which is do what you have to survive. And for

558
00:31:18,160 --> 00:31:20,840
Speaker 2: Tommy that meant not being on the radio and not

559
00:31:20,880 --> 00:31:22,920
Speaker 2: telling Joe what he was. But Joel can't see it

560
00:31:22,920 --> 00:31:25,280
Speaker 2: that way. Joel almost sees it as like a betrayal.

561
00:31:26,080 --> 00:31:29,640
Speaker 1: Well, you know it's interesting. Well Tommy snaps back, you know,

562
00:31:29,720 --> 00:31:32,040
Speaker 1: just because life stopped for you doesn't mean as to

563
00:31:32,040 --> 00:31:33,920
Speaker 1: stop for me. And then Joel's like, we'll be out

564
00:31:33,960 --> 00:31:37,320
Speaker 1: of your hair in the morning, Classic Joey, Classic Joel.

565
00:31:37,320 --> 00:31:40,480
Speaker 1: And you bring up something you know, really interesting, I think,

566
00:31:40,520 --> 00:31:42,800
Speaker 1: which is that one? And we'll talk about this more

567
00:31:42,880 --> 00:31:48,800
Speaker 1: because there's a and yet another question about why Joel

568
00:31:49,000 --> 00:31:51,480
Speaker 1: is in such a rush to leave someplace that is clear.

569
00:31:51,600 --> 00:31:53,520
Speaker 2: Truly, like please, they could have stayed here for a

570
00:31:53,560 --> 00:31:56,280
Speaker 2: good couple of months. The world doesn't vaccine that much.

571
00:31:56,480 --> 00:31:59,040
Speaker 1: I keep thinking about the thing Test said, which is

572
00:31:59,120 --> 00:32:02,040
Speaker 1: can you just take the good news from once? Literally?

573
00:32:02,120 --> 00:32:07,200
Speaker 1: That is Joel's personality. He is so traumatized. You know,

574
00:32:07,240 --> 00:32:11,320
Speaker 1: there's a thing that can happen. I think when when

575
00:32:11,640 --> 00:32:15,680
Speaker 1: you're when you're deeply unhappy or you've experienced to trauma

576
00:32:16,280 --> 00:32:19,160
Speaker 1: and you don't quite know how to process it, you

577
00:32:19,200 --> 00:32:22,120
Speaker 1: don't know how to live with it, where it becomes

578
00:32:22,280 --> 00:32:27,480
Speaker 1: we're living with it, suffering from it, becomes an identity.

579
00:32:27,640 --> 00:32:30,680
Speaker 1: And I think that has happened for Joel, where he

580
00:32:30,800 --> 00:32:36,480
Speaker 1: is so unhappy and used to being unhappy and heartbroken

581
00:32:37,200 --> 00:32:41,040
Speaker 1: that he is more comfortable being heartbroken and being pissed

582
00:32:41,080 --> 00:32:43,840
Speaker 1: off and being sad and being angry at other people

583
00:32:44,280 --> 00:32:47,120
Speaker 1: than he is just being in the presence of his

584
00:32:47,200 --> 00:32:49,440
Speaker 1: brother who's about to have a baby who he hasn't

585
00:32:49,440 --> 00:32:55,120
Speaker 1: seen in x amount. He can't just enjoy it. He

586
00:32:55,200 --> 00:32:57,280
Speaker 1: can't just sit here for an hour or two hours

587
00:32:57,320 --> 00:33:00,240
Speaker 1: or a day an extra day and like catch up

588
00:33:00,080 --> 00:33:04,400
Speaker 1: up and feel good. It feels so alien to him.

589
00:33:04,440 --> 00:33:08,480
Speaker 1: Feeling good that he would rather feel bad. And that's

590
00:33:08,560 --> 00:33:11,920
Speaker 1: just a very sad, very relatable, I think to a

591
00:33:11,960 --> 00:33:13,960
Speaker 1: lot of people, and very sad place to be at.

592
00:33:14,040 --> 00:33:18,240
Speaker 1: Joel just can't literally can't allow himself to feel good.

593
00:33:18,480 --> 00:33:20,480
Speaker 2: Yeah, you can do it. You're so smart to throw

594
00:33:20,480 --> 00:33:22,560
Speaker 2: it back to that test moment too, because it's almost

595
00:33:22,600 --> 00:33:25,200
Speaker 2: like that is his biggest weakness at this point. Yeah,

596
00:33:25,200 --> 00:33:28,560
Speaker 2: And I love the way that every episode we're kind

597
00:33:28,600 --> 00:33:32,440
Speaker 2: of getting these different reflections for Joel. And last time,

598
00:33:32,480 --> 00:33:35,400
Speaker 2: you know, we saw it was Kathleen, and we had

599
00:33:35,480 --> 00:33:37,720
Speaker 2: Bill who let somebody in. And now we have Tommy,

600
00:33:37,760 --> 00:33:40,800
Speaker 2: who legit says to him like, just because your life

601
00:33:40,840 --> 00:33:43,240
Speaker 2: stopped doesn't mean like the rest of us can't move on,

602
00:33:43,800 --> 00:33:46,560
Speaker 2: you know, And that is like, this is what if

603
00:33:46,800 --> 00:33:49,520
Speaker 2: imagine if Joel just was like, they've got something really

604
00:33:49,520 --> 00:33:51,400
Speaker 2: good here. These are the skills I could bring me

605
00:33:51,440 --> 00:33:54,120
Speaker 2: and Ellie could just live here. I don't trust the fireflies,

606
00:33:54,280 --> 00:33:58,520
Speaker 2: like it would it be the most selfless thing to

607
00:33:58,600 --> 00:34:01,600
Speaker 2: do when Ellie he could save the world. No, but like,

608
00:34:01,680 --> 00:34:04,200
Speaker 2: could there be a conversation about it? Could you choose

609
00:34:04,280 --> 00:34:06,800
Speaker 2: to have a life with people that you loved? But

610
00:34:06,920 --> 00:34:09,680
Speaker 2: that's not something all Joel knows how to do is

611
00:34:09,680 --> 00:34:16,720
Speaker 2: to basically like push through every situation like a bulldozer

612
00:34:16,920 --> 00:34:17,959
Speaker 2: and just keep going through.

613
00:34:18,000 --> 00:34:19,640
Speaker 1: He just keeps moving, almost like a shark.

614
00:34:19,680 --> 00:34:22,120
Speaker 2: It's like he can't stop because then he would have

615
00:34:22,160 --> 00:34:24,040
Speaker 2: to think about the things that he's lost.

616
00:34:24,840 --> 00:34:27,239
Speaker 1: You know, it seems like such a simple thing. You know,

617
00:34:27,360 --> 00:34:29,960
Speaker 1: if it was actually simple, then no one would need

618
00:34:30,000 --> 00:34:33,600
Speaker 1: to go to therapy. But it's like the thing about

619
00:34:33,640 --> 00:34:36,759
Speaker 1: baggage that's easier to forget is that you can put

620
00:34:36,800 --> 00:34:41,440
Speaker 1: it down. And Jel just, yeah, he literally can't because

621
00:34:41,480 --> 00:34:45,720
Speaker 1: he is he doesn't know how to be a person

622
00:34:45,840 --> 00:34:47,880
Speaker 1: who is happy. He can he can only be a

623
00:34:47,880 --> 00:34:48,880
Speaker 1: person that is suffering.

624
00:34:49,080 --> 00:34:51,160
Speaker 2: That's why, like in that moment, and we're so in

625
00:34:51,280 --> 00:34:54,920
Speaker 2: Joel's mindset in this episode and throughout the show, so

626
00:34:55,000 --> 00:34:58,840
Speaker 2: seeing things through his lens that I felt when Tommy

627
00:34:58,880 --> 00:35:01,319
Speaker 2: told him that, Like I felt that pain for Joel, like,

628
00:35:01,400 --> 00:35:04,240
Speaker 2: oh my Sarah died, but you're gonna have a baby,

629
00:35:04,360 --> 00:35:06,799
Speaker 2: and actually you're so right. That shouldn't have been our

630
00:35:06,840 --> 00:35:09,319
Speaker 2: first reaction. The first reaction should have been like, oh,

631
00:35:09,360 --> 00:35:14,400
Speaker 2: this is joyful, hey, this family continuing, like even in

632
00:35:14,440 --> 00:35:16,960
Speaker 2: this terrible situation. You and your wife are going to

633
00:35:17,000 --> 00:35:18,600
Speaker 2: be able to bring new life into it in a

634
00:35:18,640 --> 00:35:21,120
Speaker 2: place that could be safe. That's incredible.

635
00:35:21,640 --> 00:35:23,919
Speaker 1: Why go to the can? I just and I would

636
00:35:23,920 --> 00:35:26,759
Speaker 1: also say why why why go to the fireflies?

637
00:35:27,000 --> 00:35:27,120
Speaker 2: Like?

638
00:35:27,640 --> 00:35:29,719
Speaker 1: Can we first find out if there are any doctors here?

639
00:35:29,760 --> 00:35:32,840
Speaker 1: Are there any scientists here? And he's pretty good? Have

640
00:35:32,960 --> 00:35:34,840
Speaker 1: we even been a firefly.

641
00:35:34,640 --> 00:35:36,839
Speaker 2: The whole like six months that you've been on this

642
00:35:36,920 --> 00:35:37,800
Speaker 2: journey or whatever?

643
00:35:38,239 --> 00:35:40,600
Speaker 1: We stay here and see if there are any scientists here,

644
00:35:40,840 --> 00:35:46,440
Speaker 1: you know, like and let's but Joel needs the presence

645
00:35:46,480 --> 00:35:51,640
Speaker 1: of danger. He needs the heartbreak. It's more than even

646
00:35:51,640 --> 00:35:55,400
Speaker 1: a mission. He needs to put himself in danger because

647
00:35:55,600 --> 00:35:58,320
Speaker 1: he deserves that. He is he thinks he does thinks

648
00:35:58,400 --> 00:36:01,440
Speaker 1: he needs pain. He deserves to have pain and to

649
00:36:01,520 --> 00:36:04,040
Speaker 1: carry pain around. And he has to put himself in

650
00:36:04,120 --> 00:36:07,040
Speaker 1: situations where it's possible that he will feel pain. That's

651
00:36:07,080 --> 00:36:10,520
Speaker 1: just who he is. One more thing about this, So

652
00:36:11,280 --> 00:36:14,239
Speaker 1: Tommy says that he couldn't radio Joel because this is

653
00:36:14,239 --> 00:36:16,160
Speaker 1: the rules of commune. You know, they took me in.

654
00:36:16,480 --> 00:36:18,080
Speaker 1: I have to respect their rules. And I think that

655
00:36:18,080 --> 00:36:21,400
Speaker 1: that is a great reason and a very meaningful reason

656
00:36:21,400 --> 00:36:24,759
Speaker 1: in this world with you know, people share the generosity

657
00:36:24,760 --> 00:36:27,880
Speaker 1: of safety and companionship with you, and you kind of

658
00:36:27,880 --> 00:36:30,640
Speaker 1: have to respect the rules that they have. At the

659
00:36:30,680 --> 00:36:33,839
Speaker 1: same time, a part of me wonders if Tommy, if

660
00:36:33,920 --> 00:36:37,400
Speaker 1: there isn't on some level, because Tommy seems very at

661
00:36:37,400 --> 00:36:39,480
Speaker 1: peace with that, yeah, you know what I mean. And

662
00:36:39,520 --> 00:36:43,000
Speaker 1: I do wonder if on some level Tommy doesn't feel

663
00:36:43,040 --> 00:36:46,160
Speaker 1: like whether he is able to verbalize this or not,

664
00:36:46,360 --> 00:36:49,680
Speaker 1: that Joel brings drama like John brings that shit with him.

665
00:36:49,719 --> 00:36:52,680
Speaker 2: You know what the real truth is if think about

666
00:36:52,680 --> 00:36:56,680
Speaker 2: if Joel, if he told Joel about them seven years ago,

667
00:36:56,719 --> 00:36:58,640
Speaker 2: five years ago, two years ago, whatever he got there

668
00:36:58,960 --> 00:37:02,879
Speaker 2: a month ago, you know when it was he Joel

669
00:37:02,920 --> 00:37:06,279
Speaker 2: would probably have gone there with test guns blazon Oh

670
00:37:06,320 --> 00:37:07,520
Speaker 2: I got to go there if.

671
00:37:07,320 --> 00:37:09,560
Speaker 1: I killed a bunch of people on the way there.

672
00:37:09,360 --> 00:37:10,759
Speaker 2: And they would have been like, oh, I've got to

673
00:37:10,760 --> 00:37:12,879
Speaker 2: see if we can do a deal. And suddenly he's

674
00:37:12,920 --> 00:37:15,400
Speaker 2: telling Bill about it. Oh, but you know, you know

675
00:37:15,520 --> 00:37:18,560
Speaker 2: they have some stock there that you can use. Everything

676
00:37:18,600 --> 00:37:21,120
Speaker 2: is a bar or a trade. And I think Tommy

677
00:37:21,280 --> 00:37:25,080
Speaker 2: was right to not trust the jol that he knew then,

678
00:37:25,520 --> 00:37:26,440
Speaker 2: the jol he knows now.

679
00:37:26,520 --> 00:37:27,960
Speaker 1: Joel would never tell anyone I know.

680
00:37:28,000 --> 00:37:30,040
Speaker 2: When Joel leaves this place, as angry as he is,

681
00:37:30,320 --> 00:37:32,640
Speaker 2: he is a different person because of Ellie. He would

682
00:37:32,680 --> 00:37:35,880
Speaker 2: not ruin that safe place or that sanctuary. But before,

683
00:37:35,920 --> 00:37:40,400
Speaker 2: when everything was a transactional exchange, he definitely could have

684
00:37:40,560 --> 00:37:43,960
Speaker 2: used that knowledge as a way to try and gain

685
00:37:44,040 --> 00:37:46,520
Speaker 2: something rather than becoming a part of that community.

686
00:37:47,360 --> 00:37:53,080
Speaker 1: X Ray Vision will be back. The important work of

687
00:37:53,120 --> 00:37:55,920
Speaker 1: political and civic engagement doesn't just happen every two years.

688
00:37:56,160 --> 00:37:58,839
Speaker 1: Twenty twenty three has critical elections, starting with a must

689
00:37:58,840 --> 00:38:02,360
Speaker 1: win Supreme Court seat in Wisconsin. Votes Save America's No

690
00:38:02,400 --> 00:38:04,320
Speaker 1: Off Years program is here to help you stay engaged

691
00:38:04,320 --> 00:38:06,799
Speaker 1: throughout twenty twenty three. Right now, you can donate to

692
00:38:06,920 --> 00:38:08,759
Speaker 1: our No Off Years fund to help get out the

693
00:38:08,840 --> 00:38:11,759
Speaker 1: vote in Wisconsin ahead of their April election, and sign

694
00:38:11,840 --> 00:38:14,040
Speaker 1: up to stay in the loop on what's happening and

695
00:38:14,040 --> 00:38:16,720
Speaker 1: how you can get involved via remote and in person

696
00:38:16,800 --> 00:38:20,239
Speaker 1: volunteer opportunities, targeted donations, and more. Just head to vote

697
00:38:20,239 --> 00:38:29,320
Speaker 1: Saveamerica dot com to get started, and We're back. Ellie

698
00:38:29,360 --> 00:38:31,160
Speaker 1: is at the house that she's going to be sharing

699
00:38:31,200 --> 00:38:34,040
Speaker 1: with Joel. She comes out of the shower and finds

700
00:38:34,080 --> 00:38:36,880
Speaker 1: that Maria has left some new clothes for her and

701
00:38:37,000 --> 00:38:39,120
Speaker 1: a note saying, hey, come meet me across the street,

702
00:38:39,640 --> 00:38:42,560
Speaker 1: and has given her a menstrual cup, which is this

703
00:38:42,680 --> 00:38:50,440
Speaker 1: wonderful to you? Forget that, like Joel, Yeah, doesn't know women. Yeah,

704
00:38:50,760 --> 00:38:53,359
Speaker 1: I also love why that Ellie needs this.

705
00:38:53,760 --> 00:38:56,839
Speaker 2: Yeah, I really I love it. Ellie's response is like

706
00:38:56,920 --> 00:38:59,120
Speaker 2: she squeezes it and sees the instruction and then she's

707
00:38:59,160 --> 00:39:01,439
Speaker 2: like gross. And I'm just like, that's such a good

708
00:39:01,480 --> 00:39:05,480
Speaker 2: teenage thing, like it's really useful in the apocalypse, really usable,

709
00:39:05,600 --> 00:39:08,520
Speaker 2: don't have to worry about finding tampons anymore. But also

710
00:39:08,520 --> 00:39:11,240
Speaker 2: as gross, Like I get it. I love that response.

711
00:39:11,280 --> 00:39:14,440
Speaker 2: It was such a natural response from Bella.

712
00:39:14,960 --> 00:39:18,000
Speaker 1: So she goes over to Maria and Tommy's. She's a

713
00:39:18,080 --> 00:39:22,080
Speaker 1: chalkboard over their fireplace, their hearth, which commemorates the lives

714
00:39:22,080 --> 00:39:25,680
Speaker 1: of a boy named Kevin and a girl named Sarah,

715
00:39:25,719 --> 00:39:27,960
Speaker 1: who both died in the early days of the outbreak,

716
00:39:28,600 --> 00:39:32,520
Speaker 1: very close to each other. Kevin, who he learned very

717
00:39:32,560 --> 00:39:35,359
Speaker 1: soon as Maria's son, was not even three years old. Yet.

718
00:39:36,239 --> 00:39:39,160
Speaker 1: Maria comes in. She's got a coat for Ellie. It's eggplant,

719
00:39:39,239 --> 00:39:43,040
Speaker 1: not purple. Don't be saying purple around her, and we

720
00:39:43,120 --> 00:39:45,560
Speaker 1: see that Maria is just incredibly generous and that like

721
00:39:46,040 --> 00:39:49,560
Speaker 1: the that is the culture of Jackson right now, is

722
00:39:49,600 --> 00:39:52,920
Speaker 1: this kind of generosity for everybody who is here. And

723
00:39:53,000 --> 00:39:54,600
Speaker 1: she's like, let me trim your hair. When's last time

724
00:39:54,600 --> 00:39:57,520
Speaker 1: the split ends have been trimmed and her hair and

725
00:39:58,560 --> 00:40:01,680
Speaker 1: they talk about life. Maria's like, I used to be

726
00:40:01,760 --> 00:40:05,400
Speaker 1: a prosecutor back in the day, which Ellie kind of

727
00:40:05,440 --> 00:40:07,279
Speaker 1: doesn't quite know what that is, butch She's like, I

728
00:40:07,360 --> 00:40:13,319
Speaker 1: used to put bad people away. And then she inadvertently reveals,

729
00:40:13,680 --> 00:40:16,840
Speaker 1: thinking that Ellie knew this, that the Sarah from the

730
00:40:16,880 --> 00:40:21,799
Speaker 1: chalkboard was Joel's daughter, and Ellie says, I guess that

731
00:40:21,920 --> 00:40:24,359
Speaker 1: explains him a little. Ellie, I think that explains him

732
00:40:24,360 --> 00:40:24,640
Speaker 1: a lot.

733
00:40:24,760 --> 00:40:28,640
Speaker 2: I think it explains him a lot. But thinking about

734
00:40:28,680 --> 00:40:30,919
Speaker 2: the coat, right, the eggplant coat, I just want to say,

735
00:40:31,040 --> 00:40:34,120
Speaker 2: I also wonder if that line that we were kind

736
00:40:34,160 --> 00:40:36,480
Speaker 2: of like, oh, they don't look like you. Yeah, I

737
00:40:36,520 --> 00:40:39,440
Speaker 2: wonder if part of it is like Maria is so

738
00:40:40,480 --> 00:40:43,440
Speaker 2: ensconced in this little world where everyone has these like

739
00:40:43,560 --> 00:40:46,800
Speaker 2: clean clothes and wears the right clothes for the season.

740
00:40:47,080 --> 00:40:48,000
Speaker 1: Because she gives.

741
00:40:47,760 --> 00:40:50,960
Speaker 2: Ellie this outfit that's like warm gloves, like clothes. Before

742
00:40:51,000 --> 00:40:54,640
Speaker 2: Ellie's wearing like five layers of like ratty, you know, whodies.

743
00:40:54,719 --> 00:40:56,520
Speaker 1: And I wonder if it was something to do with that,

744
00:40:56,560 --> 00:40:57,480
Speaker 1: because her giving.

745
00:40:57,280 --> 00:41:00,719
Speaker 2: Out these clothes yea like makes her look like she's

746
00:41:00,760 --> 00:41:04,239
Speaker 2: part of this town, right, It's like this visual safety

747
00:41:04,280 --> 00:41:06,799
Speaker 2: of like you're wearing the right clothes for winter, you're

748
00:41:06,960 --> 00:41:09,279
Speaker 2: there's a Christmas tree in this town. I mean, like,

749
00:41:09,920 --> 00:41:13,319
Speaker 2: I wonder if Maria is so in that mindset that

750
00:41:13,440 --> 00:41:15,839
Speaker 2: to Ellie. To us, Ellie looks like all these other kids.

751
00:41:15,880 --> 00:41:18,000
Speaker 2: But to her, she can like see that she's like dust.

752
00:41:18,080 --> 00:41:21,440
Speaker 2: She had a hat, she her clothes are old. You know.

753
00:41:21,840 --> 00:41:25,319
Speaker 1: That's a good point. Maria then kind of by the

754
00:41:25,360 --> 00:41:28,400
Speaker 1: things she's saying, you can tell that she's suspicious, or

755
00:41:28,440 --> 00:41:33,000
Speaker 1: at least is full of worry. She's full of worry

756
00:41:33,000 --> 00:41:38,400
Speaker 1: about Ellie's situation with Joel. Is this safe for Ellie?

757
00:41:39,239 --> 00:41:44,440
Speaker 1: What kind of situations is Joel getting Ellie into? Ellie says, hey, listen,

758
00:41:44,480 --> 00:41:46,480
Speaker 1: I know about Joel's past. I know that he was

759
00:41:47,080 --> 00:41:53,439
Speaker 1: you know that he committed murders. And Ellie, I think

760
00:41:53,520 --> 00:41:56,359
Speaker 1: quite fairly says, you know Tommy was involved in all

761
00:41:56,360 --> 00:41:58,840
Speaker 1: that too, but you don't seem to worry about Tommy,

762
00:41:59,600 --> 00:42:02,920
Speaker 1: which again I think calls back to the thing we

763
00:42:02,920 --> 00:42:06,480
Speaker 1: were discussing earlier, which is man Joel. For all the

764
00:42:06,520 --> 00:42:09,080
Speaker 1: bad stuff that they were all involved in tests Tommy,

765
00:42:09,400 --> 00:42:14,640
Speaker 1: Joel and others, Joel must have been on a level

766
00:42:14,920 --> 00:42:18,279
Speaker 1: yeah the worst like it. He was doing what.

767
00:42:20,080 --> 00:42:22,280
Speaker 2: He thought he needed to keep the people he loved alive.

768
00:42:22,400 --> 00:42:23,879
Speaker 2: But we the more we learn, the.

769
00:42:23,880 --> 00:42:28,880
Speaker 1: More it must have been. It must have been quite savage,

770
00:42:29,080 --> 00:42:32,239
Speaker 1: and I you know, you know, if there was any

771
00:42:32,320 --> 00:42:36,640
Speaker 1: kind of processing of the tragedy of his daughter's murder,

772
00:42:37,400 --> 00:42:41,680
Speaker 1: it probably was done through him committing violent acts on people.

773
00:42:42,040 --> 00:42:45,840
Speaker 2: I also wonder if like the choice, the smart choices

774
00:42:45,880 --> 00:42:47,560
Speaker 2: that they have made that I think is why this

775
00:42:47,640 --> 00:42:50,600
Speaker 2: show has such a wide appeal to not make Joel

776
00:42:50,640 --> 00:42:52,760
Speaker 2: the Joel that we see in the game. I wonder

777
00:42:52,760 --> 00:42:56,040
Speaker 2: if it feels at times when they talk about what

778
00:42:56,440 --> 00:42:59,520
Speaker 2: Joel did, it feels at times as if they're talking

779
00:42:59,520 --> 00:43:02,319
Speaker 2: about Joel that you play as in the game. You know.

780
00:43:03,840 --> 00:43:06,400
Speaker 1: You're killing in the game, you kill hundreds of people.

781
00:43:06,440 --> 00:43:08,920
Speaker 2: You constantly just have to murder people at all times

782
00:43:08,920 --> 00:43:11,239
Speaker 2: to get Ellie and tests until Test is there no

783
00:43:11,320 --> 00:43:13,440
Speaker 2: longer to this new place, and then different people that

784
00:43:13,480 --> 00:43:15,759
Speaker 2: you meet, and I just I feel like there's this

785
00:43:15,840 --> 00:43:18,719
Speaker 2: really smart Jewel storytelling where if you've played the game,

786
00:43:18,760 --> 00:43:23,400
Speaker 2: you can kind of connect your own complicity and those actions.

787
00:43:23,040 --> 00:43:24,320
Speaker 1: And it makes a lot of sense.

788
00:43:24,680 --> 00:43:27,200
Speaker 2: We know where this story is going if we played

789
00:43:27,200 --> 00:43:29,920
Speaker 2: the game right, and they need to build up this

790
00:43:30,040 --> 00:43:33,560
Speaker 2: idea that Joel has committed terrible crimes because there is

791
00:43:33,560 --> 00:43:36,000
Speaker 2: a there's an explosion of violence in the future that

792
00:43:36,040 --> 00:43:39,640
Speaker 2: will likely happen, and I find it very interesting.

793
00:43:39,960 --> 00:43:46,879
Speaker 1: That's a actually really really really smart point. Maria notes that, well,

794
00:43:46,920 --> 00:43:49,920
Speaker 1: you know, Tommy was just following the stuff that Joel

795
00:43:50,239 --> 00:43:55,000
Speaker 1: was doing, Yeah, just as you know, just as Ellie

796
00:43:55,000 --> 00:43:57,399
Speaker 1: appears to be. And then Ellie's like, well, maybe I'm

797
00:43:57,440 --> 00:44:03,840
Speaker 1: smarter than Tommy. No offense, Maria. Basically, the whole crux

798
00:44:03,880 --> 00:44:07,200
Speaker 1: of this conversation is Maria just wants to tell Ellie, hey, listen,

799
00:44:08,760 --> 00:44:11,400
Speaker 1: the only people that can betray us or the people

800
00:44:11,440 --> 00:44:13,640
Speaker 1: that we trust, and Ellie is not receptive to this.

801
00:44:13,719 --> 00:44:18,239
Speaker 1: She doesn't know Maria. But Maria's like, Okay, well, this

802
00:44:18,320 --> 00:44:20,719
Speaker 1: conversation is going nowhere. Let's go to the movies. So

803
00:44:20,800 --> 00:44:21,200
Speaker 1: they go.

804
00:44:21,480 --> 00:44:24,359
Speaker 2: That line is so it has so much weight when

805
00:44:24,400 --> 00:44:28,400
Speaker 2: you know where the story is going. Y and Retina Wesley,

806
00:44:28,400 --> 00:44:31,040
Speaker 2: who plays Maria Tara from True Blood, it's just like

807
00:44:31,239 --> 00:44:33,360
Speaker 2: so good in this role. You just want to stick

808
00:44:33,400 --> 00:44:36,400
Speaker 2: around and like you want Ellie to have this like strong,

809
00:44:36,480 --> 00:44:39,000
Speaker 2: brilliant woman in her life who's like looking out for her.

810
00:44:39,400 --> 00:44:41,920
Speaker 2: But all Ellie wants is grizzled old Joel.

811
00:44:42,480 --> 00:44:47,520
Speaker 1: Grizzled old Joel. So the movie is nineteen seventy sevens

812
00:44:47,600 --> 00:44:50,440
Speaker 1: The Goodbye Girl, written by Neil Simon, starring Marshall Mason

813
00:44:50,560 --> 00:44:53,640
Speaker 1: and Richard Dreyfus in the role that would make him

814
00:44:53,840 --> 00:44:58,120
Speaker 1: the youngest to that point. Us were winner for Best Actor.

815
00:44:59,440 --> 00:45:03,000
Speaker 1: Ellie is watching this movie. I don't know how much

816
00:45:03,040 --> 00:45:04,759
Speaker 1: she is connecting with this movie, Like.

817
00:45:07,719 --> 00:45:11,280
Speaker 2: Yeah, kind of looking around, like what's going on, guys,

818
00:45:11,320 --> 00:45:12,440
Speaker 2: Like this is how she's alive.

819
00:45:13,000 --> 00:45:15,600
Speaker 1: She sees Tommy kind of scurrying across the room, and

820
00:45:15,640 --> 00:45:18,680
Speaker 1: so she goes off and she follows him. Tommy go

821
00:45:19,120 --> 00:45:22,160
Speaker 1: is going to meet Joel. Joel is working on his

822
00:45:22,160 --> 00:45:24,640
Speaker 1: his torn up boots. He's like taping him shut, trying

823
00:45:24,640 --> 00:45:27,520
Speaker 1: to fix him. Trying to resole them. Tommy brings him

824
00:45:27,560 --> 00:45:30,319
Speaker 1: a brand new parrot, well, not a brand new to

825
00:45:30,400 --> 00:45:34,280
Speaker 1: Joel pair of boots. They look good to Joel's boots.

826
00:45:34,640 --> 00:45:34,920
Speaker 2: Uh.

827
00:45:34,960 --> 00:45:39,960
Speaker 1: And he's got an apology too, just about like the

828
00:45:39,960 --> 00:45:43,480
Speaker 1: previous conversation and how it went, even though Tommy truly

829
00:45:43,480 --> 00:45:49,520
Speaker 1: doesn't have nothing to apologize for. Joel then opens up

830
00:45:49,680 --> 00:45:52,280
Speaker 1: all the fears that he has been kind of harboring

831
00:45:52,360 --> 00:45:55,399
Speaker 1: over these last few months. He says, Listen, I don't

832
00:45:56,000 --> 00:45:57,920
Speaker 1: this journey to Colorade. I don't think I'm gonna make it.

833
00:45:58,280 --> 00:46:00,400
Speaker 1: Ellie had to kill a guy, and that's because of me.

834
00:46:00,440 --> 00:46:02,839
Speaker 1: That's because I wasn't strong enough to do what had

835
00:46:02,880 --> 00:46:04,920
Speaker 1: to be done. If I had, if I had been

836
00:46:04,960 --> 00:46:07,040
Speaker 1: a younger man, if I had been five years older,

837
00:46:07,080 --> 00:46:10,560
Speaker 1: even if my hearing had been back, I would have

838
00:46:10,600 --> 00:46:12,319
Speaker 1: if I had the superhering from the game that I

839
00:46:12,320 --> 00:46:14,439
Speaker 1: don't have anymore. If somebody could just press the square,

840
00:46:15,960 --> 00:46:17,920
Speaker 1: if I had square, I could have heard him. I

841
00:46:17,960 --> 00:46:20,880
Speaker 1: would have heard him, and Ellie would have needed she

842
00:46:20,960 --> 00:46:23,759
Speaker 1: would not have needed to do that, and it's my

843
00:46:23,880 --> 00:46:26,440
Speaker 1: duty to protect her. But I can't. I think I'm

844
00:46:26,440 --> 00:46:30,200
Speaker 1: going to fail. I think i'm going to fail, and

845
00:46:30,320 --> 00:46:33,480
Speaker 1: every time I go to sleep, I have a dream

846
00:46:33,920 --> 00:46:36,839
Speaker 1: that I failed, and somehow even in my dreams, I'm

847
00:46:36,880 --> 00:46:39,160
Speaker 1: fucking up. I need you to do it, Tommy. I

848
00:46:39,200 --> 00:46:41,319
Speaker 1: need you to take her to Colorado. And Tommy is

849
00:46:41,440 --> 00:46:45,319
Speaker 1: swayed by this, really swayed by this, and he says,

850
00:46:45,360 --> 00:46:47,279
Speaker 1: I'll do it. I'll do it for you. I'll take

851
00:46:47,320 --> 00:46:49,719
Speaker 1: her out. At dawn, Joel goes back to the house.

852
00:46:49,760 --> 00:46:53,600
Speaker 1: He finds Ellie, and clearly Ellie has overheard this conversation

853
00:46:54,239 --> 00:46:58,760
Speaker 1: and she's pissed. First, she finds Ellie reading the journal

854
00:46:58,800 --> 00:47:00,560
Speaker 1: of the girl that used to live there, and she's

855
00:47:00,600 --> 00:47:05,000
Speaker 1: just like, there is this incredible like cultural dissonance of

856
00:47:06,719 --> 00:47:10,000
Speaker 1: is this really what life was like girls my age

857
00:47:10,440 --> 00:47:12,920
Speaker 1: twenty years ago? They were just like worried about boys

858
00:47:12,920 --> 00:47:15,520
Speaker 1: and clothes and stuff. And then she gets to it,

859
00:47:15,560 --> 00:47:18,600
Speaker 1: she's like, well, I guess it's Tommy. Then fuck you, Joel,

860
00:47:19,120 --> 00:47:22,839
Speaker 1: And she's furious. She says, Joel, why are you even

861
00:47:22,920 --> 00:47:25,399
Speaker 1: like hang out like where we have a conversation. Just go,

862
00:47:25,880 --> 00:47:28,839
Speaker 1: just do whatever you want to do, just leave. Why wait?

863
00:47:29,680 --> 00:47:32,800
Speaker 1: Joel actually makes a strong point that like, listen, I

864
00:47:33,360 --> 00:47:36,919
Speaker 1: get it, but Tommy knows this area to say nothing

865
00:47:36,920 --> 00:47:39,640
Speaker 1: in the fact that he's younger than me. But it

866
00:47:39,680 --> 00:47:42,640
Speaker 1: doesn't matter because bottom line, Ellie doesn't know Tommy, she

867
00:47:42,680 --> 00:47:45,360
Speaker 1: doesn't trust Tommy. She has spent the last three months

868
00:47:45,360 --> 00:47:49,240
Speaker 1: with Joel. She has a level of comfort with Joel,

869
00:47:49,400 --> 00:47:54,000
Speaker 1: and she wants to go with Joel. That's it. And

870
00:47:54,040 --> 00:47:56,040
Speaker 1: she says, like, what are you afraid of? And she

871
00:47:56,080 --> 00:47:59,840
Speaker 1: brings up Sarah, which was probably the wrong thing to

872
00:47:59,880 --> 00:48:02,880
Speaker 1: do in this conversation because Joel immediately that you just

873
00:48:03,320 --> 00:48:06,880
Speaker 1: see the door, Peja Pascal is amazing, because you just

874
00:48:06,960 --> 00:48:10,960
Speaker 1: see the door close shut whatever door he had opened

875
00:48:11,000 --> 00:48:13,319
Speaker 1: to be like, hey, I'm I'm I don't think I'm

876
00:48:13,360 --> 00:48:15,080
Speaker 1: good enough to take you the rest of the way.

877
00:48:15,480 --> 00:48:20,480
Speaker 1: That immediately shuts and he tries to like basically get

878
00:48:20,480 --> 00:48:24,360
Speaker 1: into a suffering a trauma pissing contest with Allie, and

879
00:48:24,360 --> 00:48:27,520
Speaker 1: Ellie says, hey, everyone, you're going through shit. Everyone I

880
00:48:27,560 --> 00:48:30,799
Speaker 1: cared for has either died or left. Everybody except you,

881
00:48:31,040 --> 00:48:34,680
Speaker 1: and she pushes Joel really hard, but he's unmoved by this.

882
00:48:35,120 --> 00:48:37,120
Speaker 1: He says, you're not my daughter, and I sure as

883
00:48:37,120 --> 00:48:40,040
Speaker 1: hell ain't your dad. Come Dawn, we're going our separate ways.

884
00:48:39,960 --> 00:48:41,840
Speaker 2: Joel talk top top top top.

885
00:48:41,760 --> 00:48:45,880
Speaker 1: And then Joel spends the night thinking about Sarah. Next morning,

886
00:48:45,960 --> 00:48:49,360
Speaker 1: Ellie is like ready to go before dawn, before anybody

887
00:48:49,440 --> 00:48:52,719
Speaker 1: knocks on her door. She is packed, she has her

888
00:48:52,760 --> 00:48:54,960
Speaker 1: shoes on, she has her new coat on. She's ready.

889
00:48:55,719 --> 00:48:58,200
Speaker 1: Tommy comes. They go to the stables and there they

890
00:48:58,239 --> 00:49:01,000
Speaker 1: find Joel saddling up a horror just getting a horse ready,

891
00:49:01,480 --> 00:49:03,480
Speaker 1: and he says, you know what I thought about it.

892
00:49:03,480 --> 00:49:06,200
Speaker 1: I spent the night thinking about it, and you deserve

893
00:49:06,239 --> 00:49:09,400
Speaker 1: at least to have a say, to have some agency

894
00:49:09,440 --> 00:49:11,200
Speaker 1: in her life to make the choice about who you

895
00:49:11,239 --> 00:49:14,120
Speaker 1: want to take you the rest of the way, Me

896
00:49:14,239 --> 00:49:18,160
Speaker 1: or Tommy. And she's like you okay Tommy, Yeah, I

897
00:49:18,200 --> 00:49:19,520
Speaker 1: haven't said she.

898
00:49:19,120 --> 00:49:21,799
Speaker 2: She literally like just smashes her bags into Joel and

899
00:49:21,840 --> 00:49:22,640
Speaker 2: she's like, let's go.

900
00:49:22,840 --> 00:49:28,840
Speaker 1: It's time Tommy. Uh. Then says, hey, listen, when you

901
00:49:28,840 --> 00:49:31,880
Speaker 1: get back, Jackson is here for you. We've got a

902
00:49:31,880 --> 00:49:37,200
Speaker 1: place here. Uh. And then Joel asks that I would,

903
00:49:38,360 --> 00:49:41,319
Speaker 1: And then Joel asks Tommy first hunting rifle. Tommy gives

904
00:49:41,360 --> 00:49:44,040
Speaker 1: it to him. Uh, and they set off and again,

905
00:49:45,520 --> 00:49:47,480
Speaker 1: I mean, we talked about it earlier, but this is

906
00:49:47,719 --> 00:49:51,040
Speaker 1: why doesn't Joel, stay. It makes so much sense to stay,

907
00:49:51,120 --> 00:49:53,680
Speaker 1: even if you're gonna go, don't go and Winter go.

908
00:49:54,040 --> 00:49:57,520
Speaker 1: He's some spending time. Yeah, why go now? It's just

909
00:49:57,640 --> 00:50:00,959
Speaker 1: that Joel doesn't know any other way but the hardest way,

910
00:50:01,760 --> 00:50:04,839
Speaker 1: because that is the life he's been living. He can't

911
00:50:04,920 --> 00:50:09,080
Speaker 1: let himself off the hook. He just can't. Later on,

912
00:50:09,080 --> 00:50:11,520
Speaker 1: on the way on the trip down, Joel teaches Ellie

913
00:50:11,520 --> 00:50:13,480
Speaker 1: how to shoot the rifle, and she's bad it. She

914
00:50:13,560 --> 00:50:15,400
Speaker 1: blames the gun and we see Joel do it and

915
00:50:15,440 --> 00:50:19,200
Speaker 1: he's fucking great at it. He tells her about his

916
00:50:19,239 --> 00:50:22,080
Speaker 1: previous life as a contractor, which is like building stuff.

917
00:50:22,680 --> 00:50:25,000
Speaker 1: We see her lean her head against his back as

918
00:50:25,000 --> 00:50:29,840
Speaker 1: they're riding on the horse, and she and he tells

919
00:50:29,880 --> 00:50:34,479
Speaker 1: her how American football worked, which is the down system,

920
00:50:34,520 --> 00:50:37,360
Speaker 1: which is her good. They make Colorado in five days,

921
00:50:38,440 --> 00:50:39,239
Speaker 1: Joel tells Ellie.

922
00:50:39,320 --> 00:50:41,919
Speaker 2: And they were also like, wait a minute, this wasn't bad. Yeah,

923
00:50:42,440 --> 00:50:44,920
Speaker 2: everyone was like this is so terrible. This was like

924
00:50:44,960 --> 00:50:47,719
Speaker 2: the worst journey. It's so fucked. It's the most scariest

925
00:50:47,760 --> 00:50:50,560
Speaker 2: place and you're fucked if you're on the way there.

926
00:50:50,600 --> 00:50:56,120
Speaker 1: And they're like, wait a minute, that was really easy. Yeah,

927
00:50:53,480 --> 00:50:59,279
Speaker 1: they there's another really nice, vulnerable Joel moment where he

928
00:50:59,719 --> 00:51:03,160
Speaker 1: tells Ellie that when he was younger he wanted to

929
00:51:03,200 --> 00:51:08,759
Speaker 1: be a singer. Ally that's say you got to sing now,

930
00:51:08,920 --> 00:51:12,280
Speaker 1: yeah you got, just like he loves Ellie. I'm sorry.

931
00:51:12,320 --> 00:51:15,000
Speaker 2: There's no question. If there was any moment that needed

932
00:51:15,000 --> 00:51:17,840
Speaker 2: you to know that he was fully committed to Ellie,

933
00:51:18,280 --> 00:51:20,320
Speaker 2: it was when he decided to tell how he wanted

934
00:51:20,360 --> 00:51:22,040
Speaker 2: to be a singer when he.

935
00:51:21,960 --> 00:51:23,759
Speaker 1: Was younger, and not how that means we're gonna get

936
00:51:23,760 --> 00:51:24,399
Speaker 1: to see him sing.

937
00:51:24,920 --> 00:51:26,440
Speaker 2: I feel like they are setting us up for that.

938
00:51:27,440 --> 00:51:31,880
Speaker 1: So they find the university campus overrun by monkeys that

939
00:51:32,000 --> 00:51:34,000
Speaker 1: I guess were being experimented on, or maybe there was

940
00:51:34,000 --> 00:51:37,600
Speaker 1: a local zoo nearby, and now they're now they're set free.

941
00:51:38,000 --> 00:51:40,160
Speaker 1: They find lots of evidence of lab work, and they

942
00:51:40,200 --> 00:51:45,320
Speaker 1: follow the firefly symbols UH to to find the facilities

943
00:51:45,320 --> 00:51:48,440
Speaker 1: where this lab work was being done. But there's nobody here.

944
00:51:48,480 --> 00:51:51,719
Speaker 1: There's no fireflies here, there's nobody. Ellie sees a map

945
00:51:51,800 --> 00:51:54,000
Speaker 1: and says, hey, they must have pulled out to hear Look,

946
00:51:54,040 --> 00:51:55,719
Speaker 1: there's this little pin on the map. They pulled out

947
00:51:55,719 --> 00:51:59,120
Speaker 1: to Salt Lake City and then they hear some monkeys

948
00:51:59,280 --> 00:52:02,440
Speaker 1: screeching out. They look out the window and guess who's here.

949
00:52:02,480 --> 00:52:03,120
Speaker 2: It's raiders.

950
00:52:03,120 --> 00:52:07,799
Speaker 1: Oh shit. They head for the horse. As they get

951
00:52:07,840 --> 00:52:10,880
Speaker 1: to the horse, a raider pops literally out of the

952
00:52:10,880 --> 00:52:16,000
Speaker 1: fucking ground. Where did this guy come from? And attacks Joel. Joel,

953
00:52:16,440 --> 00:52:20,240
Speaker 1: like in the game, chokes the guy out. I felt myself.

954
00:52:20,320 --> 00:52:24,600
Speaker 1: I felt myself gripping the controller at this moment, chokes

955
00:52:24,640 --> 00:52:28,200
Speaker 1: the guy out. But when the guy drops, we see

956
00:52:28,200 --> 00:52:31,280
Speaker 1: that there is a shank sticking out of Joel's guts.

957
00:52:31,440 --> 00:52:34,480
Speaker 1: Ellie gets Joel on the horse and they get out

958
00:52:34,520 --> 00:52:36,480
Speaker 1: of there as quick as they can, with Ellie, you know,

959
00:52:36,520 --> 00:52:40,799
Speaker 1: firing shots in the raider's direction, and they get quite

960
00:52:40,840 --> 00:52:44,360
Speaker 1: a ways away to like a somewhere around like a

961
00:52:44,440 --> 00:52:50,480
Speaker 1: railroad trestle, before Joel can't be His strength is fading

962
00:52:50,560 --> 00:52:53,080
Speaker 1: now and he's bleeding out and he falls off the

963
00:52:53,120 --> 00:52:55,960
Speaker 1: horse to the ground. Ellie jumps off. She tries to

964
00:52:55,960 --> 00:52:58,880
Speaker 1: put pressure on the wound, but Joel is clearly dying,

965
00:52:59,360 --> 00:53:02,480
Speaker 1: and Ellie says heartbreakingly, I can't do this without you,

966
00:53:02,520 --> 00:53:04,839
Speaker 1: and then we cut to Black Wolf. Yeah.

967
00:53:04,920 --> 00:53:07,800
Speaker 2: I have to say one of the most impressive feats

968
00:53:07,920 --> 00:53:10,920
Speaker 2: that this show has achieved is most people watching this

969
00:53:11,000 --> 00:53:14,640
Speaker 2: show do not know if Joel is going to live

970
00:53:14,719 --> 00:53:18,640
Speaker 2: or die, Like so much of the response from audiences

971
00:53:19,160 --> 00:53:20,279
Speaker 2: believes should we.

972
00:53:20,280 --> 00:53:22,360
Speaker 1: Even say this is.

973
00:53:25,040 --> 00:53:27,279
Speaker 2: I know right, I'm like, wait a minute, I'm like, look,

974
00:53:27,480 --> 00:53:29,359
Speaker 2: that is how believable it is. Who knows.

975
00:53:29,400 --> 00:53:30,680
Speaker 1: We don't know how closely.

976
00:53:30,360 --> 00:53:31,920
Speaker 2: They're going to adapt the game, but I think that

977
00:53:32,160 --> 00:53:35,120
Speaker 2: we really don't know. Incredible things about this moment is

978
00:53:35,160 --> 00:53:37,920
Speaker 2: you feel it. You feel so scared for Joel, and

979
00:53:37,960 --> 00:53:40,959
Speaker 2: even as a game player, whether the story may diverge,

980
00:53:41,920 --> 00:53:44,239
Speaker 2: you believe that this could be it because these are

981
00:53:44,239 --> 00:53:46,960
Speaker 2: the dramatic sweeps that the story is taking, and this

982
00:53:47,160 --> 00:53:48,400
Speaker 2: ending is so heartbreaking.

983
00:53:48,520 --> 00:53:49,279
Speaker 1: That's heartbreaking.

984
00:53:49,480 --> 00:53:52,440
Speaker 2: I just love how small the moment is because in

985
00:53:52,480 --> 00:53:54,440
Speaker 2: the game, the version of this is like much more

986
00:53:54,480 --> 00:53:57,040
Speaker 2: dramatic and there's so many more people attacking Joel. And

987
00:53:57,360 --> 00:54:01,040
Speaker 2: but I really like the horrific almost of it because

988
00:54:01,040 --> 00:54:03,239
Speaker 2: the reality is that in this world, even though you're

989
00:54:03,280 --> 00:54:05,360
Speaker 2: going up against all the infected and all these different

990
00:54:05,360 --> 00:54:08,120
Speaker 2: people shived to the gut, that could be what takes

991
00:54:08,160 --> 00:54:10,399
Speaker 2: you out. Just one person who gets a lucky shot

992
00:54:10,520 --> 00:54:13,719
Speaker 2: landed And that makes it like so much more horrible.

993
00:54:14,560 --> 00:54:16,720
Speaker 2: I just, yeah, I thought that was like such a good,

994
00:54:17,160 --> 00:54:18,520
Speaker 2: shocking kind of moment.

995
00:54:19,360 --> 00:54:21,839
Speaker 1: It really was. And I can't help but think as

996
00:54:21,840 --> 00:54:26,080
Speaker 1: I watch Joel laying there, that this in a really sad,

997
00:54:28,440 --> 00:54:32,480
Speaker 1: in a really sad and a sad way that is

998
00:54:32,600 --> 00:54:35,440
Speaker 1: again I think, evocative of someone who's really like suffering

999
00:54:35,480 --> 00:54:38,680
Speaker 1: with trauma and with depression. This is almost, in a

1000
00:54:38,680 --> 00:54:43,560
Speaker 1: weird way, what Joel wanted. He wanted it. Not that

1001
00:54:43,680 --> 00:54:46,239
Speaker 1: he wants anything bad to happen to Ellie, but he

1002
00:54:46,360 --> 00:54:50,680
Speaker 1: is so defined in his mind by failing to keep

1003
00:54:50,680 --> 00:54:56,880
Speaker 1: people safe that he wants on some level, he wanted

1004
00:54:56,880 --> 00:54:59,200
Speaker 1: to put himself in a situation where he would fail

1005
00:54:59,239 --> 00:55:01,319
Speaker 1: to keep her safe and die in the process. And

1006
00:55:01,360 --> 00:55:03,520
Speaker 1: here he is doing it, And it's really really sad

1007
00:55:03,560 --> 00:55:08,480
Speaker 1: that he's can't just hang out with his brother for

1008
00:55:08,520 --> 00:55:13,680
Speaker 1: an extra week, just like literally, you could have just

1009
00:55:13,719 --> 00:55:14,040
Speaker 1: done that.

1010
00:55:14,080 --> 00:55:16,840
Speaker 2: Maybe maybe if you'd have told Maria the truth of

1011
00:55:16,880 --> 00:55:19,440
Speaker 2: the situation about Ellie, she would have wanted Tommy to

1012
00:55:19,480 --> 00:55:21,800
Speaker 2: go with you, like she probably wants a better world

1013
00:55:21,840 --> 00:55:24,440
Speaker 2: for her kid and for her community. Like there's so

1014
00:55:24,520 --> 00:55:27,359
Speaker 2: many different versions, but I love your kind of point

1015
00:55:27,360 --> 00:55:30,719
Speaker 2: where it's It's like Joel's way is the hard way.

1016
00:55:31,440 --> 00:55:33,480
Speaker 2: Joel's way is always hard.

1017
00:55:35,080 --> 00:55:38,120
Speaker 1: And that's punishment, like you said, and it's always a

1018
00:55:38,160 --> 00:55:44,200
Speaker 1: way too in which he has to you know, his

1019
00:55:44,280 --> 00:55:47,200
Speaker 1: brother gives him the rifle without any kind of without

1020
00:55:47,320 --> 00:55:53,000
Speaker 1: even blinking. Joel would not do that. His brother after

1021
00:55:53,400 --> 00:55:57,680
Speaker 1: having this huge blow up argument with with Joel, who

1022
00:55:57,800 --> 00:56:01,000
Speaker 1: didn't literally shit on him, when he was like, oh man,

1023
00:56:01,040 --> 00:56:03,239
Speaker 1: I wonder this huge moment in my life. I'm gonna

1024
00:56:03,280 --> 00:56:05,239
Speaker 1: have kids soon. I wonder if I'm gonna be good

1025
00:56:05,239 --> 00:56:07,160
Speaker 1: at it, and his and Joel is just like who

1026
00:56:07,200 --> 00:56:11,239
Speaker 1: gives a ship? After all that, he basically is like,

1027
00:56:11,280 --> 00:56:14,400
Speaker 1: you know what, I will go in your stead. I

1028
00:56:14,440 --> 00:56:18,440
Speaker 1: will go risk my life, risk the quality of life

1029
00:56:18,440 --> 00:56:20,640
Speaker 1: of my partner and my unborn child, and I'll take

1030
00:56:20,680 --> 00:56:22,879
Speaker 1: this the kid because you need this. I can tell

1031
00:56:22,920 --> 00:56:27,719
Speaker 1: you really need me to do this. And he and

1032
00:56:27,800 --> 00:56:32,040
Speaker 1: Tommy was just like, yeah, you do that, but Joel kids,

1033
00:56:32,360 --> 00:56:35,759
Speaker 1: Tommy has had so much growth, Like even in lest

1034
00:56:35,760 --> 00:56:36,920
Speaker 1: we not forget, yeah.

1035
00:56:36,680 --> 00:56:39,000
Speaker 2: That when Joel is in the stables when they go

1036
00:56:39,040 --> 00:56:41,320
Speaker 2: and find him, he was there to steal a horse.

1037
00:56:41,640 --> 00:56:43,759
Speaker 2: And then he got on the crisis of conscience and

1038
00:56:43,800 --> 00:56:45,200
Speaker 2: Tommy it was like, I would have just given you

1039
00:56:45,280 --> 00:56:49,240
Speaker 2: the horse, bro, but that's not how Joel is. Always

1040
00:56:49,320 --> 00:56:52,680
Speaker 2: has to be the hardest way. So you bring that

1041
00:56:52,760 --> 00:56:55,719
Speaker 2: up and it's like that tragedy of his need to

1042
00:56:55,760 --> 00:56:58,640
Speaker 2: always put himself in danger. It comes to fruition here

1043
00:56:58,680 --> 00:57:02,760
Speaker 2: in a really brew away that is gonna put Joel

1044
00:57:02,880 --> 00:57:06,640
Speaker 2: and Ellie in an incredible amount of danger. And I

1045
00:57:06,680 --> 00:57:08,919
Speaker 2: think it's like quite well known now that the next

1046
00:57:08,960 --> 00:57:12,160
Speaker 2: episode is gonna be the the DLC episode, the left

1047
00:57:12,160 --> 00:57:13,920
Speaker 2: Behind episode we get into.

1048
00:57:13,760 --> 00:57:16,520
Speaker 1: The Ellie stuff, So I think it's gonna be.

1049
00:57:16,840 --> 00:57:19,960
Speaker 2: It's gonna be, it's got it's got an episode three

1050
00:57:20,080 --> 00:57:23,360
Speaker 2: level of heartbreak potential, and I think it's gonna be

1051
00:57:23,360 --> 00:57:26,080
Speaker 2: really interesting because it's also probably gonna leave Joel's fate

1052
00:57:26,280 --> 00:57:31,479
Speaker 2: in a pot to do I know, right, especially because

1053
00:57:31,480 --> 00:57:32,800
Speaker 2: we know what happens next in the game.

1054
00:57:32,880 --> 00:57:35,080
Speaker 1: It's just like one of the scariest parts of the game.

1055
00:57:35,400 --> 00:57:40,440
Speaker 1: It's very very well. We'll be back here uh for

1056
00:57:40,560 --> 00:57:43,280
Speaker 1: episode seven and next week, and stay tuned for our

1057
00:57:43,320 --> 00:57:45,880
Speaker 1: ongoing coverage of not just The Last of Us and

1058
00:57:46,040 --> 00:57:47,520
Speaker 1: to be a Max, but the Last of Us game

1059
00:57:48,280 --> 00:57:52,320
Speaker 1: up next. Nerd out.

1060
00:57:57,160 --> 00:57:59,160
Speaker 2: On this week's nerd out. I'm gonna begin it with

1061
00:57:59,200 --> 00:58:02,560
Speaker 2: a little spoiler war The blow theory has a minor

1062
00:58:03,120 --> 00:58:05,160
Speaker 2: it's like a minor major spoiler for m Man in

1063
00:58:05,200 --> 00:58:07,880
Speaker 2: the West Bontomania, depending on what you're interested in. So

1064
00:58:08,120 --> 00:58:12,440
Speaker 2: listen or not with that in mind. So you know

1065
00:58:12,480 --> 00:58:14,600
Speaker 2: this segment, that's where you tell us what you love them,

1066
00:58:14,640 --> 00:58:19,280
Speaker 2: why you're excited to share. Now Eli is sharing a

1067
00:58:19,360 --> 00:58:23,360
Speaker 2: theory that not only is Eli excited to share it,

1068
00:58:23,400 --> 00:58:25,400
Speaker 2: but me and Jason are excited to share it because

1069
00:58:25,400 --> 00:58:26,760
Speaker 2: this shit blew our minds.

1070
00:58:26,920 --> 00:58:29,280
Speaker 1: I didn't blow my mind. It was one of those like,

1071
00:58:30,360 --> 00:58:33,600
Speaker 1: oh shit, this better be what this is because oh

1072
00:58:33,640 --> 00:58:34,160
Speaker 1: it's so.

1073
00:58:34,320 --> 00:58:37,720
Speaker 2: Good that he doesn't really do this, or I'm just

1074
00:58:37,760 --> 00:58:40,120
Speaker 2: like higher Eli, because this has to good.

1075
00:58:40,760 --> 00:58:43,240
Speaker 1: It's certainly on the table for something that could happen,

1076
00:58:43,480 --> 00:58:46,720
Speaker 1: you know, a couple of years from now. Anyway, here's

1077
00:58:47,520 --> 00:58:52,000
Speaker 1: Eli Montoya. Hey, X ray crew, here's a theory I've

1078
00:58:52,000 --> 00:58:54,920
Speaker 1: become obsessed with after seeing the techie ant army in

1079
00:58:55,000 --> 00:58:57,960
Speaker 1: aunt Man in the wast What if Hank Pim justin

1080
00:58:58,040 --> 00:59:03,640
Speaker 1: indvertently created the MSU's interpretation of the annihilation wave, Those

1081
00:59:03,720 --> 00:59:07,280
Speaker 1: highly evolved ants recta conqueror's army with ease. Since time

1082
00:59:07,320 --> 00:59:09,439
Speaker 1: works differently in the quantrum, is it possible they could

1083
00:59:09,480 --> 00:59:12,000
Speaker 1: keep evolving, become more mechanized, and eventually bust out of

1084
00:59:12,000 --> 00:59:14,920
Speaker 1: the microsverse to consume all. First of all, let me

1085
00:59:15,000 --> 00:59:19,480
Speaker 1: just say so, the annihilation wave is a an insectoid

1086
00:59:20,280 --> 00:59:26,960
Speaker 1: like invasion of of these kind of like cybernetic, part machine,

1087
00:59:27,120 --> 00:59:32,120
Speaker 1: part biological cosja beings. They're called bugs, and they are

1088
00:59:34,480 --> 00:59:37,440
Speaker 1: they are like spreading out across the universe just like

1089
00:59:37,640 --> 00:59:41,280
Speaker 1: like locusts, just like destroying everything in their midst and

1090
00:59:41,360 --> 00:59:44,800
Speaker 1: they are led by Annihilists. Who is this bug like

1091
00:59:45,880 --> 00:59:51,000
Speaker 1: foe of the Fantastic Four? Now I gotta say it

1092
00:59:51,200 --> 00:59:52,040
Speaker 1: really does.

1093
00:59:52,120 --> 00:59:53,520
Speaker 2: It feels like what it is.

1094
00:59:53,840 --> 00:59:56,840
Speaker 1: I mean, it feels like what it is, the annihilation

1095
00:59:56,920 --> 00:59:59,000
Speaker 1: you could create and not I think you could make

1096
00:59:59,120 --> 01:00:02,160
Speaker 1: like one of the big ants can just like evolve

1097
01:00:02,240 --> 01:00:03,840
Speaker 1: into annihilists.

1098
01:00:03,200 --> 01:00:06,040
Speaker 2: Exactly like there's no reason and also as well like

1099
01:00:06,720 --> 01:00:09,760
Speaker 2: it's so it feels even though in the movie we

1100
01:00:09,880 --> 01:00:12,440
Speaker 2: felt like the ant Army was such a good like

1101
01:00:12,640 --> 01:00:14,840
Speaker 2: dux Mark and a gag and it really leaned into

1102
01:00:14,880 --> 01:00:18,160
Speaker 2: Hank Pim's kind of history of loving ants What I

1103
01:00:18,320 --> 01:00:21,280
Speaker 2: really love about it this is like this makes sense,

1104
01:00:21,800 --> 01:00:24,560
Speaker 2: Like narratively, it does make a lot of sense.

1105
01:00:24,920 --> 01:00:26,280
Speaker 1: The annihilation wave has.

1106
01:00:26,240 --> 01:00:29,040
Speaker 2: Like extremely advanced technology and weapons.

1107
01:00:29,600 --> 01:00:33,760
Speaker 1: It's stoppable. They just are rolling over like very very

1108
01:00:33,840 --> 01:00:35,640
Speaker 1: advanced civilism, and they have so.

1109
01:00:35,840 --> 01:00:39,160
Speaker 2: Many they have like unbelievable numbers. That was where their

1110
01:00:39,160 --> 01:00:42,480
Speaker 2: biggest power came from, which obviously ants have. I think

1111
01:00:42,520 --> 01:00:45,360
Speaker 2: this is so exciting and I wouldn't see it, especially

1112
01:00:45,480 --> 01:00:49,200
Speaker 2: because we know that this over like a thousand years

1113
01:00:49,240 --> 01:00:52,000
Speaker 2: in the quantum realm. This group of ants became this

1114
01:00:52,160 --> 01:00:56,680
Speaker 2: like highly mechanized, like technologically advanced communist society. That doesn't

1115
01:00:56,720 --> 01:00:58,520
Speaker 2: mean that there couldn't be one ant who wanted to

1116
01:00:58,640 --> 01:01:01,080
Speaker 2: rise up and take over into fired by Kang. I

1117
01:01:01,120 --> 01:01:03,280
Speaker 2: mean that could be who takes over the quantum realm

1118
01:01:03,360 --> 01:01:05,560
Speaker 2: now Kang is gone, you know, it could be Annihilistan.

1119
01:01:06,040 --> 01:01:06,840
Speaker 2: I love this.

1120
01:01:07,000 --> 01:01:07,560
Speaker 1: This is blind.

1121
01:01:08,560 --> 01:01:10,600
Speaker 2: I also think it would be the coolest, like one

1122
01:01:10,640 --> 01:01:12,680
Speaker 2: of the biggest I think one of the biggest critiques

1123
01:01:13,800 --> 01:01:15,680
Speaker 2: I love MCU fans had about Am and the Lost

1124
01:01:15,800 --> 01:01:19,040
Speaker 2: is like the stakes didn't they felt higher than a

1125
01:01:19,080 --> 01:01:21,840
Speaker 2: normal movie, but they didn't necessarily feel like world ending.

1126
01:01:21,920 --> 01:01:24,120
Speaker 1: If you weren't already deeply familiar with the Kang law.

1127
01:01:24,480 --> 01:01:26,920
Speaker 2: So I would love for what seemed to be like

1128
01:01:27,000 --> 01:01:29,800
Speaker 2: a kind of funny Hank Pim joke to actually end

1129
01:01:29,920 --> 01:01:32,960
Speaker 2: up being like a huge part of the MCU going forward.

1130
01:01:33,040 --> 01:01:35,960
Speaker 1: That would just be such a good me too. I hope,

1131
01:01:36,000 --> 01:01:39,280
Speaker 1: like higher Eli, because this is the one really good

1132
01:01:39,360 --> 01:01:42,400
Speaker 1: Now we should add as we head into Guardians three,

1133
01:01:43,320 --> 01:01:50,840
Speaker 1: that the Annihilation event was the thing that spurred the

1134
01:01:50,960 --> 01:01:55,680
Speaker 1: formation of the famous Guardians of the Galaxy roster. It

1135
01:01:55,760 --> 01:02:01,000
Speaker 1: basically got quilled together with Uh, with Grud and with Rocket.

1136
01:02:01,200 --> 01:02:05,040
Speaker 1: And if there is to be which we would assume

1137
01:02:05,080 --> 01:02:08,919
Speaker 1: there's going to be another roster of Guardians after Guardians three,

1138
01:02:09,040 --> 01:02:12,560
Speaker 1: and this current roster kind of like exits stage left,

1139
01:02:12,880 --> 01:02:15,640
Speaker 1: I wonder if the Annihilation wave would be some kind

1140
01:02:15,680 --> 01:02:20,400
Speaker 1: of that's a really event that causes another formation, another

1141
01:02:20,480 --> 01:02:21,760
Speaker 1: team of Guardians to come out.

1142
01:02:21,800 --> 01:02:23,840
Speaker 2: It's a really smart cool And also the other thing is,

1143
01:02:23,960 --> 01:02:26,440
Speaker 2: so we were kind of wondering about, like the how

1144
01:02:26,520 --> 01:02:27,960
Speaker 2: did the ants end up in a part of the

1145
01:02:28,080 --> 01:02:31,040
Speaker 2: quantum realm that they spent a thousand years in when

1146
01:02:31,040 --> 01:02:32,520
Speaker 2: everyone else was only in there for like a few

1147
01:02:32,600 --> 01:02:35,920
Speaker 2: days or whatever. So in the comics, Annihilis is in

1148
01:02:36,000 --> 01:02:38,240
Speaker 2: the negative zone, so I do still wonder if this

1149
01:02:38,360 --> 01:02:40,640
Speaker 2: could be that space where where they fell into that's

1150
01:02:40,760 --> 01:02:43,120
Speaker 2: like the negative zone part of the quantum realm, which

1151
01:02:43,160 --> 01:02:44,880
Speaker 2: we kind of wondered for a long time, if those

1152
01:02:44,920 --> 01:02:48,000
Speaker 2: would be connected again, that connection to Fantastic Four, which

1153
01:02:48,040 --> 01:02:50,280
Speaker 2: we already have with Kang. I love this theory, Eli

1154
01:02:52,720 --> 01:02:54,520
Speaker 2: off this since we first heard about it.

1155
01:02:54,520 --> 01:02:55,560
Speaker 1: I think it's really good.

1156
01:02:55,760 --> 01:02:56,400
Speaker 2: It's so good.

1157
01:02:56,840 --> 01:02:59,000
Speaker 1: Well, thanks Eli. If you have theories or passions you

1158
01:02:59,040 --> 01:03:00,520
Speaker 1: want to share, hit us up at x ray at

1159
01:03:00,560 --> 01:03:05,240
Speaker 1: cricket dot com instructions or in the show notes. That's

1160
01:03:05,320 --> 01:03:08,840
Speaker 1: it for us and this episode. Rosie any plugs.

1161
01:03:09,280 --> 01:03:12,320
Speaker 2: Plugs, Fox plugs, Uh yeah, you can find me here

1162
01:03:12,480 --> 01:03:16,320
Speaker 2: twice a week. I'm on Instagram, Rosie marks letterbox the same,

1163
01:03:17,120 --> 01:03:19,200
Speaker 2: and just my writings are around in the world. I've

1164
01:03:19,200 --> 01:03:21,280
Speaker 2: been writing a lot of DC dot com recently, writing

1165
01:03:21,280 --> 01:03:23,560
Speaker 2: about some cool comic book history. I did a cool

1166
01:03:23,560 --> 01:03:26,040
Speaker 2: piece about Day McDuffie. I've got a really awesome piece

1167
01:03:26,080 --> 01:03:30,439
Speaker 2: coming out next week about like a really underread Mark

1168
01:03:30,480 --> 01:03:33,200
Speaker 2: Bright Christopher prescreen Latin run. So yeah, just lots of

1169
01:03:33,280 --> 01:03:36,800
Speaker 2: fun stuff and obviously the usual spots too, and yeah,

1170
01:03:36,960 --> 01:03:39,080
Speaker 2: just happy to be here with you talking about all

1171
01:03:39,080 --> 01:03:39,720
Speaker 2: this cool stuff.

1172
01:03:42,640 --> 01:03:46,440
Speaker 1: Catch our next episode on Wednesday, March first, for where

1173
01:03:46,480 --> 01:03:48,280
Speaker 1: we'll be covering episode seven of the Last of Us.

1174
01:03:48,280 --> 01:03:51,720
Speaker 1: And remember we're bringing you two episodes a week Wednesdays

1175
01:03:51,760 --> 01:03:57,120
Speaker 1: and Fridays from your podcast platform of choice. You'll find

1176
01:03:57,160 --> 01:04:00,400
Speaker 1: twice the Deep Dives, twice the everything else. Catch us

1177
01:04:00,440 --> 01:04:02,280
Speaker 1: here Wednesdays and Fridays, And.

1178
01:04:02,400 --> 01:04:05,440
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1179
01:04:05,440 --> 01:04:08,080
Speaker 2: as well as your streak halls, you can subscribe on YouTube,

1180
01:04:08,480 --> 01:04:10,480
Speaker 2: where we are now posting full episodes of the show.

1181
01:04:10,560 --> 01:04:12,600
Speaker 2: We have our own channel, which is really cool. You

1182
01:04:12,640 --> 01:04:16,360
Speaker 2: can follow us on at XRV pop on Twitter and

1183
01:04:16,800 --> 01:04:18,800
Speaker 2: check out the discord. We're always talking about it because

1184
01:04:18,840 --> 01:04:21,560
Speaker 2: we're often in there a lot. We have fun conversations,

1185
01:04:21,560 --> 01:04:24,400
Speaker 2: a ton of great fans. We just hit two thousand members,

1186
01:04:24,920 --> 01:04:26,960
Speaker 2: so it's a really rad place with a bunch of

1187
01:04:27,040 --> 01:04:29,160
Speaker 2: cool people who love talking about stuff, and it's a

1188
01:04:29,280 --> 01:04:33,240
Speaker 2: really supportive place. Plus we learn in the discord that

1189
01:04:33,360 --> 01:04:36,760
Speaker 2: our listener Blake got engaged last week and he shouted

1190
01:04:36,760 --> 01:04:37,000
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1191
01:04:37,000 --> 01:04:43,400
Speaker 1: Podcast five star ratings, five star reviews. We need them.

1192
01:04:43,480 --> 01:04:45,800
Speaker 1: We gotta have them. We're asking you for them. Here's

1193
01:04:45,840 --> 01:04:51,640
Speaker 1: one from football owner love stand Crunky Stand Crunky is

1194
01:04:51,720 --> 01:04:54,680
Speaker 1: that you any chemistry and enjoy love the content the

1195
01:04:54,720 --> 01:04:57,440
Speaker 1: pod covers and especially love how much love enjoy The

1196
01:04:57,520 --> 01:04:59,840
Speaker 1: host spring every week for art, each other and the

1197
01:05:00,960 --> 01:05:02,920
Speaker 1: They are both absolute experts at their craft and so

1198
01:05:03,000 --> 01:05:03,680
Speaker 1: fun to listen to her.

1199
01:05:03,880 --> 01:05:07,080
Speaker 2: Thank you Footballer, Thank you Footballer, and I appreciate you.

1200
01:05:07,560 --> 01:05:09,400
Speaker 1: X ray Vision is a Crooked Media production. The show

1201
01:05:09,480 --> 01:05:11,200
Speaker 1: is produced by Chris Lord and Saul Rubin. The show

1202
01:05:11,240 --> 01:05:14,200
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1203
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1204
01:05:18,040 --> 01:05:21,280
Speaker 1: Matt Group provide video production support. Alex Rella for handle

1205
01:05:21,360 --> 01:05:24,640
Speaker 1: social media. Thank you Brian Vasquez for theme music. See

1206
01:05:24,680 --> 01:05:25,840
Speaker 1: you next time. Bye,