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Speaker 1: Amy Roboc and TJ.

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Speaker 2: Holmes present Killer Thriller with your host Alisa Donovan.

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Speaker 3: Hey, everyone, welcome back to Killer Thriller. We are picking

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Speaker 3: up my conversation with Keith Zalamsowitch Nicole Brown, Simpson's former boyfriend,

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Speaker 3: who pulls back the curtain on what OJ Simpson was

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Speaker 3: really like behind closed doors, from chilling personal encounters to

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Speaker 3: the moments that never made it on screen. Keith breaks

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Speaker 3: down what the people versus O. J. Simpson American crime

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Speaker 3: story nailed and what it completely missed.

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Speaker 1: You know all of this.

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Speaker 3: I should also mention our podcast studio in Brentwood is

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Speaker 3: directly between Rockingham and Bundy and Gretna Green is like right,

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Speaker 3: you know.

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Speaker 1: Super close by also, so it's one of these.

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Speaker 3: Things where you you know, I don't know, every time

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Speaker 3: I go there, I feel it.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, the Bronco Chase.

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Speaker 3: Were you watching that in the same way that we

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Speaker 3: all were as spectators of this spectacle?

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Speaker 1: Like I could not believe it.

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Speaker 3: I was visiting Los Angeles, I lived in New York City.

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Speaker 3: I was in LA working with my agency for a

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Speaker 3: couple of weeks, and I was like, what the hell

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Speaker 3: is going on here? Like Wow, like, what is wrong

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Speaker 3: with Los Angeles? Why are they allowing this to happen?

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Speaker 3: And it also interrupted the Knicks game, the championship game,

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Speaker 3: which I was upset about.

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Speaker 2: My New York friends weren't happy about that.

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Speaker 1: No, I was not at.

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Speaker 2: The chase story is a whole other thing that I

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Speaker 2: had never talked about until I wrote this book. But

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Speaker 2: I'm going to give you the short story of it,

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Speaker 2: and hopefully the readers will delve into it more. But

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Speaker 2: if you remember the Bronco chase and his ultimate arrest

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Speaker 2: was the day after the funeral, Yes, well, I've got

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Speaker 2: all these emotions going on the day of the funeral,

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Speaker 2: and I started to tell you. That's when I pulled

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Speaker 2: her mother and one of the sisters into her room

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Speaker 2: at the house and said, I need to go to

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Speaker 2: the police. I need to tell them what I know.

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Speaker 2: And they gave me their blessing and I said, I

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Speaker 2: need to know two things. Do you think he did it?

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Speaker 2: And they said yes, and I have your blessing and

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Speaker 2: they said yes. I went forward with my information. But

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Speaker 2: moving forward to the Bronco chase the next day we

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Speaker 2: had talked about at the Brown's house that day that

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Speaker 2: the next day. We were going to meet at the

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Speaker 2: Bundy condo where the murders took place, and we were

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Speaker 2: going to start packaging up Nicole's private stuffing it up,

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Speaker 2: inventoring it, getting it out. You know. The place was

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Speaker 2: surrounded by media.

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Speaker 1: Oh god, it was It was crazy.

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Speaker 2: So I was staying at my friend Ron Hardy's house,

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Speaker 2: which was two blocks away from Bundy right here. Nicole

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Speaker 2: and Ron and Nick were really close friends. I met

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Speaker 2: Ron through Nick, so I had flown out. We were

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Speaker 2: both Paul Bert. So I was staying at Ron's house. Well,

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Speaker 2: I slept a little later than Ron did that morning

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Speaker 2: because I had been four days with no sleep since

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Speaker 2: I found Yeah, so I slept an hour or two later,

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Speaker 2: So I was a little late getting over to the

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Speaker 2: Bundy condo. Ron was already there with the family and

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Speaker 2: they were inside. So as I was walking up, I

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Speaker 2: came around the alley. The police knew who I was,

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Speaker 2: so they let me through. So I came up the

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Speaker 2: alleyway to go in the back entrance of the house

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Speaker 2: to help them, and all of a sudden I hear

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Speaker 2: screaming out of the top window and I look up

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Speaker 2: and it's Denise Nix's older sister, and she's screamed me, Keith, Keith,

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Speaker 2: get out of here, just go, just go, just leave,

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Speaker 2: just leave. And I'm like flabbergasted. And Ron sticks his

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Speaker 2: head out the window and screams the same thing at me, basically,

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Speaker 2: So I didn't ask any questions. I just turned and

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Speaker 2: I ran down the alleyway and went back to Ron's house.

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Speaker 2: So remember no cell phones. So I'm sitting there on

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Speaker 2: pins and needles for about an hour, not knowing what's

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Speaker 2: going on, what could have caused that. And Ron finally

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Speaker 2: came over to the house and was just shaking his

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Speaker 2: head and he's like, man, He's like, just as you

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Speaker 2: were walking up, the phone rings and it's OJ on

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Speaker 2: the phone, and he said, I'm all my way over

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Speaker 2: there to finish what I started. No what, And nobody

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Speaker 2: knows this, Like I said I write about in the book,

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Speaker 2: nobody knows at that point if he means he's coming

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Speaker 2: to kill me. He just stood next to me at

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Speaker 2: the funeral when he hugged and kissed every pallbearer, wouldn't

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Speaker 2: make eye contact with me. You know, he's still thinking

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Speaker 2: about me. So we didn't know if that many was

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Speaker 2: coming over to kill me, coming over to kill them,

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Speaker 2: coming over to kill himself. In the heat of the

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Speaker 2: moment in real time, nobody knew what that meant, but

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Speaker 2: it was just as I was walking up to the condo.

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Speaker 2: So now we're back at Ron's house and we're looking

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Speaker 2: at each other, going what the hell is going on?

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Speaker 2: We turn on the TV and there's gil Garcetti. OJ

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Speaker 2: is now a wanted man. He's a fugitive from justice.

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Speaker 2: He's on the run. We're actively seeking him. Blah blah

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Speaker 2: blah blah blah. So we're glued to the TV and

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Speaker 2: within an hour or whatever it was, someone spots him.

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Speaker 2: Then the whole slow chase begins. So we're at Bundy,

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Speaker 2: right close enough to Rockingham, Yeah, Nicole's house, watching the

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Speaker 2: whole thing take place on TV as it basically goes

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Speaker 2: right by us on the four h five. Oh my god,

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Speaker 2: just head spinning.

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Speaker 1: I mean.

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Speaker 3: I don't think we really as you know, people just

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Speaker 3: watching it like spectators didn't really understand just how backwards

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Speaker 3: all of this is. The fact that he was allowed

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Speaker 3: to quote turn himself in. There were so many things

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Speaker 3: that he was just given carte blanche because he was

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Speaker 3: so famous and such a celebrity, and so.

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Speaker 1: Many things happened. He got to go home and call

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Speaker 1: his mommy.

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Speaker 2: That's all well documented in the series. I mean they

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Speaker 2: did a good job.

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Speaker 1: Of doctu You think that's accurate. I was going to

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Speaker 1: ask those things.

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Speaker 2: I think that's pretty accurate from my understanding. The one

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Speaker 2: thing I think they got wrong is there was no

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Speaker 2: grand jury testimony. They didn't go in and pull Marsha

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Speaker 2: out of a grand jury testimony when OJ was on

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Speaker 2: the run. Grand jury was two days later. Because I

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Speaker 2: was in the grand jury got so he's already been

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Speaker 2: arrested for that, So they may have gotten a few

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Speaker 2: of the details. But they documented their screw up pretty good. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: we're aware that they should have never let that happen.

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Speaker 2: He should have been arrested like anybody else who was

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Speaker 2: wanting for double murder instead of being allowed to turn

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Speaker 2: himself in. Right, it was a I'm sure Gilgozetti and

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Speaker 2: the whole DA's office regretted making that choice.

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Speaker 1: I think they probably have a few regrets.

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Speaker 3: Yes, did you What did you think about Kuba Gooding

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Speaker 3: Junior his performance as OJ.

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Speaker 2: I think it was good. I think all the acting

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Speaker 2: in the series was pretty good. I watched it more

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Speaker 2: for content, sure, and anything else, so I kind of

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Speaker 2: focused on some of the details a little more. It

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Speaker 2: was interesting to to realize, you know, because ultimately I

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Speaker 2: never testified in the main trial.

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Speaker 1: That's what I was going to ask. So they didn't

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Speaker 1: ask you to testify.

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Speaker 2: Oh yeah, they asked me to testify. I testified for

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Speaker 2: the grand jury. I was put under sapoena. They told

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Speaker 2: me I was going to be the first witness, told

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Speaker 2: me to go hide, don't sell your story, which I

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Speaker 2: never had. In New York. I got offered a million

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Speaker 2: dollars in cash on two occasions.

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Speaker 3: That's another part that this was sort of the start

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Speaker 3: of all of that where people that getting paid to

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Speaker 3: tell their stories and like a current Affair and all

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Speaker 3: these things where people were monetizing.

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Speaker 2: Barbara Walters was calling me, Countie Chung was calling sixty minutes,

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Speaker 2: was calling me the biggest of the biggest, and the

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Speaker 2: usual suspects State and all that kind of stuff. It

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Speaker 2: was interesting to see how they focused were focusing on

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Speaker 2: my testimony because it was all about domestic violence until

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Speaker 2: the racial card got played, and as soon as everything

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Speaker 2: flips on that, it became more focused about the racial

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Speaker 2: animis in Los Angeles and the cops reputation because I

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Speaker 2: lived there, I lived through the La riots is when

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Speaker 2: Cole and I were together. You know, I actually sent

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Speaker 2: those nights in the house, slept in the guest room

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Speaker 2: the only nights I slept over there, so I could

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Speaker 2: protect her in case something happened. But if you watch

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Speaker 2: the series, you see how the main focus of evidence

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Speaker 2: was going to be domestic violence and stalking, and then

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Speaker 2: they had to switch on a dime. So the earlier

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Speaker 2: is they had me under subpoena to testify in the

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Speaker 2: main trial, told me I was going to be the

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Speaker 2: first witness, sent me home to Florida where I was

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Speaker 2: hiding out avoiding the media, flew me out to be

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Speaker 2: the first witness in the trial. Decided last minute that

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Speaker 2: they were going to put Denise Brown on first because

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Speaker 2: she had domestic violence evidence as well. So they put

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Speaker 2: Denise on the witness stand. She ran long several days

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Speaker 2: on the witness stand, and they got a lot of

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Speaker 2: information at her. And the way they explained it to

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Speaker 2: me was we got a lot out of Denise, not

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Speaker 2: as much as you know, more than we were thinking

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Speaker 2: we were going to get so we're going to behave

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Speaker 2: you Keith until the end. We're going to with domestic violence,

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Speaker 2: and we have to close with domestic violence being the

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Speaker 2: strong point of their trial, the emotional point what they

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Speaker 2: thought the jury would attached to. You know, they knew

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Speaker 2: it was going to be a long DNA process where

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Speaker 2: it was going to be boring and tedious for the

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Speaker 2: So they thought open with a band, closed with a bang.

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Speaker 2: So they explained it to me that way. So they said,

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Speaker 2: go home standard subpoena, don't talk to anybody. We're going

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Speaker 2: to bring you back to close it out. Well, we

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Speaker 2: all kind of know what happened with Furman and everything

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Speaker 2: else that transpired during that. And then the caveat is

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Speaker 2: the defense called me as a witness.

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Speaker 1: You're kidding.

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Speaker 2: The poened me, took me into court in Florida where

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Speaker 2: I was sort of hiding out, forced me to go

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Speaker 2: into court under subpoena to bring me out as a

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Speaker 2: defense witness.

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Speaker 1: In what capacity? What did they think you were going

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Speaker 1: to say?

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Speaker 2: You're going to explain that to you, because it's crazy.

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Speaker 2: I didn't you know. I I knew they were never

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Speaker 2: really going to put me on and I didn't fight

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Speaker 2: the subpoena because in my mind I was like, go ahead,

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Speaker 2: put me on, because that's going to allow the prosecution

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Speaker 2: to ask me a lot more stuff they could have

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Speaker 2: on direct testimony. So they sort of put out tidbits

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Speaker 2: to the newspaper about their theory of why they were

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Speaker 2: going to call me as a witness, and this is

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Speaker 2: what it was. Their theory was, well, OJ watched you

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Speaker 2: having sex with his wife through the window and didn't

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Speaker 2: kill you. How could he be this jealous, murderous guy.

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Speaker 2: And OJ reached out and shook your hand after watching

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Speaker 2: that and didn't kill you. How could he be this

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Speaker 2: horrible guy?

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Speaker 1: Oh my god.

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Speaker 2: He didn't have the opportunity at that point, and I

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Speaker 2: don't think things had gotten as drastic in his mind

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Speaker 2: at that point, would be my answer. But the defense

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Speaker 2: was doing it basically as a ploy in the public.

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Speaker 2: They wanted to be to pick up on it and

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Speaker 2: so we're not afraid of this guy. Well, when it

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Speaker 2: got to the end of the trial, I think the

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Speaker 2: prosecution sort of threw up their hands, and the series

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Speaker 2: does a very good documentation of this. It got torn

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Speaker 2: into a racial battle. I mean, it became not about evidence,

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Speaker 2: not about right or wrong or domestic violence. It became

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Speaker 2: simply about race. Right. Prosecution realized at that point nothing

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Speaker 2: I could say, and they were going to change. And

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Speaker 2: did you notice how they focused on the jury and

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Speaker 2: what each one was thinking. Yes, yes, Then they took

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Speaker 2: each one by name, Well, this is what we have

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Speaker 2: to do with this one, and this is what we

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Speaker 2: need this one. I found that interesting because I think

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Speaker 2: what they were trying to say, in a roundabout way

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Speaker 2: is my testimony might have hurt them at the end

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Speaker 2: because of the race. Right.

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Speaker 3: I mean, this is the part that is so again

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Speaker 3: heartbreaking and just shocking to just try to metabolize that

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Speaker 3: because it was kind of the perfect storm. They took

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Speaker 3: advantage of a moment in Los Angeles that was very

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Speaker 3: real and very Rodney King being beaten to and.

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Speaker 1: The riots all of it.

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Speaker 3: That was very real and people were enraged and rightfully so.

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Speaker 1: But this had nothing to do with race.

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Speaker 2: This in Los Angeles at the time of the riots

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Speaker 2: or were you.

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Speaker 1: Used to know? I was in New York. I was

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Speaker 1: in New York City.

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Speaker 2: I tell you it was scary.

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Speaker 1: It was scary in New York.

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Speaker 3: We I was working in a bar and they shut

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Speaker 3: like that open you know, we would open up four

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Speaker 3: or three and they shut down everything because people were

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Speaker 3: running in the streets and like there was a mini

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Speaker 3: there were many riots going on in New York.

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Speaker 2: Sort of yeah, I didn't realize that, but LA was

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Speaker 2: scary and you knew it, and you knew the police

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Speaker 2: were wrong and knew that they had made other mistakes

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Speaker 2: in the pavement. And when you watch the series that

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Speaker 2: we're talking about people versus O. J. Simpson, they do

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Speaker 2: a good job of documenting how Furman had those issues

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Speaker 2: and they were well known in the LAPD YEP. Chris,

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Speaker 2: Chris tried to keep him from going on the witness stand.

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Speaker 2: You see that whole bat between him and Marsha. Yes,

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Speaker 2: if they had not put him on, maybe there's a

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Speaker 2: different outcome. But it opened the door for the defense

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Speaker 2: to play that card with all their might.

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Speaker 3: And to play those tapes and the amount of times

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Speaker 3: him using the N word all that you just you.

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Speaker 1: Can't and hear it.

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Speaker 3: You can't put it the toothpaste bag in the tube,

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Speaker 3: like it's just too bad. I but again this brings

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Speaker 3: us back to how again Nicole gets lost in the holes.

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Speaker 1: They pushed aside. I mean, I don't even think they

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Speaker 1: show in the series.

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Speaker 3: I don't even think they don't show her family very much.

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Speaker 3: Her sister is on the stand, but they don't even

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Speaker 3: really talk about her, and it's it's just.

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Speaker 1: It's so disturbing.

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Speaker 2: It is. And I understand a little bit on that

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Speaker 2: series because it was focusing on the trial and ojib right, right,

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Speaker 2: I mean, give give her the credit that she deserves

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Speaker 2: and show what kind of human beings she was. And

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Speaker 2: like I said, and Ron Goldman as well, they just

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Speaker 2: do that, and they do in any of the documentaries. Really,

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Speaker 2: I mean, the sisters have done some great things to

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Speaker 2: bring attention to Nicole's life and her memory. So I'm

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Speaker 2: happy for that.

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Speaker 1: So did you This is what I was going to ask.

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Speaker 1: Did you go to the courtroom at all?

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Speaker 3: Were you in in the courtroom during the trial.

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Speaker 2: Well, that's another thing I read about in the book.

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Speaker 2: I wasn't allowed to. I wasn't allowed to watch it

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Speaker 2: on TV.

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Speaker 1: You're kidding, I was understand because you were supposed to.

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Speaker 2: Oh yes, yes, yes, great, So I did. I mean,

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Speaker 2: I'm sure some witnesses don't abide by that, but I

299
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Speaker 2: was doing everything by the book. I didn't sell my story.

300
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Speaker 2: I didn't watch the trial. I wanted to be a number.

301
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Speaker 2: I didn't want to open myself up for any scrutiny

302
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Speaker 2: or criticism. I wanted to put that guy away with

303
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Speaker 2: every ounce right I have in my soul. So I

304
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Speaker 2: did the right thing. So it took me years after

305
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Speaker 2: the trial to educate myself to wow, find out. You

306
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Speaker 2: know I write about in the book, it would take

307
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Speaker 2: you six months, twelve hours a day, seven days a

308
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Speaker 2: week to watch the trial if you just sat down

309
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Speaker 2: to watch, and then there's a backstory for every witness,

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Speaker 2: every piece of evidence, every witness that ended up not

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Speaker 2: getting called. There's a backstory to everything. There's a whole

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Speaker 2: It took years to learn about it.

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Speaker 3: I bet it was really I think it was the

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Speaker 3: first time, or one of the first time. I think

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Speaker 3: it was the first time that they allowed cameras in

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Speaker 3: the courtroom, which just turns everything upside down, right to

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Speaker 3: a degree where you can't when a camera is on you.

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Speaker 3: It's it just it changes everything for everyone. Yes, it's performative, right.

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Speaker 2: And people act differently than they would behind closed doors. Yes,

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Speaker 2: make sure you can't blame people for that's how they are.

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Speaker 1: Of course. How did you feel when you heard the verdict? Well,

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Speaker 1: did you watch that live?

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Speaker 2: I did. I actually did watch that live, and I

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Speaker 2: think I had kind of prepared myself, knowing the makeup

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Speaker 2: of the jury and how it had turned into a

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Speaker 2: racial component and some of the things that Johnny Cochran

327
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Speaker 2: was pushing, and I could see it. I could see it.

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Speaker 2: I would. I was optimistic that they would rise above

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Speaker 2: that and that they would take the evidence at face

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Speaker 2: value and do the right thing, because we all know

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Speaker 2: the true verdict. But I was concerned. I would say,

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Speaker 2: if I was a betting man sitting there that day

333
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Speaker 2: watching the verdict, it was probably fifty to fifty in

334
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Speaker 2: my mind. But I was hopeful and then obviously extremely disappointed.

335
00:17:01,320 --> 00:17:04,040
Speaker 2: I was angry, I was bitter, all the emotions you

336
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Speaker 2: go through. But it took me years to get over.

337
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Speaker 1: That, you know, And yeah, I can imagine.

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Speaker 2: Processing some of it. Sure, Sure, I waited thirty two

339
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Speaker 2: years to rate the book.

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Speaker 1: I was going to say, I mean that certainly explains.

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Speaker 2: Why safety, you know.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, So, how did you feel when OJ died?

343
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Speaker 3: When you heard or read that OJ died, or how

344
00:17:25,359 --> 00:17:26,879
Speaker 3: did you find out well.

345
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Speaker 2: All through the years after he had been exonerated, he

346
00:17:31,000 --> 00:17:33,639
Speaker 2: still brought me up numerous times. He wrote about me

347
00:17:33,720 --> 00:17:35,800
Speaker 2: in that stupid book that he wrote, if I do

348
00:17:35,920 --> 00:17:40,960
Speaker 2: it by name, So he always had me still on

349
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Speaker 2: his mind because he hated me. I mean, I was

350
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Speaker 2: the guy who stayed to him. And Nick told me

351
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Speaker 2: that that day at Gretna Green when he burst in

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Speaker 2: on us and I wouldn't leave them alone. She told

353
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Speaker 2: me that day she said, Keith, no one, no one

354
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Speaker 2: talks to him that way. I said, what's he going

355
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Speaker 2: to do? Kill me? I mean, I had those words

356
00:18:00,880 --> 00:18:04,280
Speaker 2: came out of my mouth to Nick that day. Cavalier

357
00:18:04,359 --> 00:18:08,080
Speaker 2: about it after the fact. What an idiot, I.

358
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Speaker 3: Was, Well, so you were you afraid for the year's

359
00:18:10,920 --> 00:18:12,760
Speaker 3: post then post acquittal.

360
00:18:13,240 --> 00:18:16,880
Speaker 2: I wouldn't stay afraid. I lived my life in public.

361
00:18:16,920 --> 00:18:20,320
Speaker 2: I had bars and restaurants. I didn't hide, I didn't

362
00:18:20,359 --> 00:18:24,200
Speaker 2: try to keep a little profile. I wasn't worried about him,

363
00:18:24,200 --> 00:18:25,840
Speaker 2: but it was always in the back of my mind.

364
00:18:26,280 --> 00:18:28,840
Speaker 2: I mean, you're a New York girl, you know, walking

365
00:18:28,880 --> 00:18:30,640
Speaker 2: home from a bar four o'clock in the morning down

366
00:18:30,640 --> 00:18:36,119
Speaker 2: a dark avenue or side street, there's there's there's little,

367
00:18:36,640 --> 00:18:38,200
Speaker 2: you know, places.

368
00:18:37,760 --> 00:18:40,920
Speaker 1: To hide, for people to hide.

369
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Speaker 2: I'd be lying if I didn't say across my mind

370
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Speaker 2: a lot of times. But I didn't live my life.

371
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Speaker 2: I didn't let it define how I lived my life.

372
00:18:48,760 --> 00:18:51,000
Speaker 2: But I will tell you this. When he died, I

373
00:18:51,040 --> 00:18:53,880
Speaker 2: was living in the Bahamas. I didn't think anybody knew

374
00:18:53,880 --> 00:18:55,560
Speaker 2: where I was at, to be honest with you, I

375
00:18:55,600 --> 00:18:58,520
Speaker 2: was doing a good project in a pretty isolated area

376
00:18:58,520 --> 00:19:02,280
Speaker 2: of the Bahamas. And my phone blew up, my emails

377
00:19:02,320 --> 00:19:05,880
Speaker 2: blew up, and that's when I started thinking about the book.

378
00:19:05,880 --> 00:19:09,679
Speaker 2: I thought to myself, well, there's still an interest. Maybe

379
00:19:09,720 --> 00:19:13,399
Speaker 2: someone needs to tell Maybe I need to tell the

380
00:19:13,480 --> 00:19:16,240
Speaker 2: story so people will understand what happened. And now I

381
00:19:16,320 --> 00:19:19,200
Speaker 2: kind of feel safe because somebody's writ in the book

382
00:19:20,080 --> 00:19:24,879
Speaker 2: isn't too flattering to mister Simpson, who knows what he

383
00:19:24,880 --> 00:19:26,760
Speaker 2: would have done if this book would have come out

384
00:19:26,960 --> 00:19:30,000
Speaker 2: when he was alive, if he would have come after me,

385
00:19:30,119 --> 00:19:33,040
Speaker 2: or had someone come after me, those things would have

386
00:19:33,040 --> 00:19:33,960
Speaker 2: gone through my mind.

387
00:19:34,119 --> 00:19:39,360
Speaker 3: So I waited, what did you think about fay Resnik

388
00:19:39,520 --> 00:19:40,240
Speaker 3: and her book?

389
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Speaker 1: Did you know Faye at all?

390
00:19:41,920 --> 00:19:45,359
Speaker 2: No, Faye, I wasn't a fan of it when it

391
00:19:45,400 --> 00:19:49,440
Speaker 2: came out. I kind of understand her motivation, but I

392
00:19:49,480 --> 00:19:52,200
Speaker 2: would have rather Fae spoke some of that on the

393
00:19:52,240 --> 00:19:56,000
Speaker 2: witness stand and by writing that book eliminated her instantly

394
00:19:56,040 --> 00:20:01,880
Speaker 2: from being a witness. Oh to prefer if Faye wanted

395
00:20:01,880 --> 00:20:03,800
Speaker 2: to write a book, she waited and did it after

396
00:20:03,840 --> 00:20:07,520
Speaker 2: she testified. But I know Fay in her heart, had

397
00:20:07,640 --> 00:20:12,000
Speaker 2: Nichole's best interest in mind. She may not have portrayed me.

398
00:20:12,040 --> 00:20:12,479
Speaker 1: I think so.

399
00:20:12,720 --> 00:20:15,320
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think so. I mean I know that Faye

400
00:20:15,320 --> 00:20:18,320
Speaker 2: and Nick were close. You know, they used to come

401
00:20:18,320 --> 00:20:21,320
Speaker 2: see me at the Monkey Bar quite a bit in Aspen, Colorado.

402
00:20:22,240 --> 00:20:25,800
Speaker 2: I saw Faye and Nick there with Cato. But just

403
00:20:25,880 --> 00:20:28,160
Speaker 2: to answer in a short form, I wish she had

404
00:20:28,200 --> 00:20:30,440
Speaker 2: waited to write the book until after she had testified.

405
00:20:30,760 --> 00:20:33,760
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, so do I.

406
00:20:35,080 --> 00:20:37,399
Speaker 2: But you know a lot of people did a lot

407
00:20:37,440 --> 00:20:37,840
Speaker 2: of things.

408
00:20:38,320 --> 00:20:56,520
Speaker 3: Yeah, what did you think about when OJ was indicted

409
00:20:56,560 --> 00:20:59,080
Speaker 3: after the Las Vegas robbery, Because I you know, those

410
00:20:59,119 --> 00:21:00,760
Speaker 3: of us who didn't who are just looking at this

411
00:21:00,800 --> 00:21:05,080
Speaker 3: from the outside. I was just constantly waiting for him

412
00:21:05,119 --> 00:21:09,600
Speaker 3: to fall. I was constantly waiting for him not to

413
00:21:09,760 --> 00:21:12,320
Speaker 3: do I didn't want him to hurt more women, which

414
00:21:12,320 --> 00:21:16,000
Speaker 3: I'm sure he did, but I was constantly waiting for

415
00:21:16,760 --> 00:21:18,479
Speaker 3: that thing he was going to do that was going

416
00:21:18,560 --> 00:21:19,280
Speaker 3: to screw him.

417
00:21:19,480 --> 00:21:22,800
Speaker 1: You knows do and they kill themselves.

418
00:21:22,960 --> 00:21:25,760
Speaker 2: You knew he had the road rage incidents and me

419
00:21:26,200 --> 00:21:30,760
Speaker 2: the stealing of direct TV. Yeah, the things that a

420
00:21:30,880 --> 00:21:33,679
Speaker 2: double murderer who's acquitted, you think the last thing they

421
00:21:33,720 --> 00:21:38,640
Speaker 2: would do themselves. But that's the mindset of a sociopath

422
00:21:38,840 --> 00:21:42,119
Speaker 2: and a narcissist, you know, that's OJ Simpsons. So he

423
00:21:42,119 --> 00:21:45,480
Speaker 2: couldn't control himself. So to answer your question, when the

424
00:21:45,520 --> 00:21:49,879
Speaker 2: whole Las Vegas situation came about, I was thrilled, you know,

425
00:21:50,040 --> 00:21:53,359
Speaker 2: obviously glad no one got hurt. But I watched that

426
00:21:53,480 --> 00:21:57,200
Speaker 2: trial with great anticipation, hoping that some sort of form

427
00:21:57,200 --> 00:22:00,480
Speaker 2: of justice would come about, and it did in a

428
00:22:00,560 --> 00:22:03,960
Speaker 2: minor way. The fact that he served several years behind

429
00:22:03,960 --> 00:22:06,679
Speaker 2: bars made me feel good. I wish it was longer.

430
00:22:07,119 --> 00:22:10,280
Speaker 2: It wasn't, but I got a lot of satisfaction out

431
00:22:10,320 --> 00:22:10,640
Speaker 2: of it.

432
00:22:10,800 --> 00:22:11,040
Speaker 3: Right.

433
00:22:12,119 --> 00:22:15,840
Speaker 1: Has her family read your book? Nicole's family?

434
00:22:16,119 --> 00:22:19,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, I told him about it, so, yeah, they're fine.

435
00:22:19,200 --> 00:22:21,120
Speaker 1: They haven't had a commented on it at all.

436
00:22:21,240 --> 00:22:24,760
Speaker 2: Or Denise is fine. Denise's good. Ron Hardy's good Tanya.

437
00:22:25,320 --> 00:22:30,919
Speaker 2: Tanya sort of took a different rounde. She thought I

438
00:22:30,920 --> 00:22:34,359
Speaker 2: should have got her blessing first, God blessed on me.

439
00:22:34,400 --> 00:22:36,800
Speaker 2: I'm not going to say anything negative, but she just

440
00:22:36,840 --> 00:22:39,960
Speaker 2: sort of took the approach that she wanted me to

441
00:22:40,119 --> 00:22:42,239
Speaker 2: tell her about it before I did it. And what

442
00:22:42,280 --> 00:22:45,080
Speaker 2: I did was I told no one. And I did

443
00:22:45,080 --> 00:22:47,760
Speaker 2: that for a reason because I didn't want anybody talking

444
00:22:47,760 --> 00:22:49,720
Speaker 2: to me out of it. Yeah, and I wanted it

445
00:22:49,760 --> 00:22:54,119
Speaker 2: to be raw and emotional from my heart. Why I

446
00:22:54,119 --> 00:22:57,000
Speaker 2: wrote the book. I turned down book deals over the years,

447
00:22:57,440 --> 00:23:00,439
Speaker 2: numerous book deals. I didn't want a writer to polish

448
00:23:00,560 --> 00:23:03,120
Speaker 2: it up and make it professional. It's the last thing

449
00:23:03,640 --> 00:23:07,119
Speaker 2: I wanted someone to feel like they were living this

450
00:23:07,359 --> 00:23:10,960
Speaker 2: unique experience with me. So I did it on my own.

451
00:23:11,119 --> 00:23:14,600
Speaker 2: It was a process that I had to internalize. I'm

452
00:23:14,600 --> 00:23:16,760
Speaker 2: not a writer, so you didn't have a ghostwriter. You

453
00:23:16,840 --> 00:23:18,800
Speaker 2: wrote it, get it on my own. I had a

454
00:23:18,800 --> 00:23:20,920
Speaker 2: couple of friends who have written things in the past

455
00:23:20,920 --> 00:23:25,639
Speaker 2: who helped me with organizational stuff and how to you know,

456
00:23:26,200 --> 00:23:27,960
Speaker 2: frame the book and that kind of stuff, and then

457
00:23:28,040 --> 00:23:32,520
Speaker 2: ultimately get it published through Amazon. It's from me, It's

458
00:23:32,560 --> 00:23:34,920
Speaker 2: from my heart and it's my stories, and like I said,

459
00:23:34,960 --> 00:23:39,040
Speaker 2: it's it's almost like a walking journal, so my funerals

460
00:23:39,800 --> 00:23:42,080
Speaker 2: and I've always been close with the sisters over the years,

461
00:23:42,800 --> 00:23:44,919
Speaker 2: with the whole family over the years. I testified in

462
00:23:44,920 --> 00:23:46,720
Speaker 2: the Cussi trial. I went out to testify in the

463
00:23:46,720 --> 00:23:50,199
Speaker 2: Cussi trial. I gave deposition in the civil trial as

464
00:23:50,240 --> 00:23:53,080
Speaker 2: well the Cussy trial. At the behest of the Brown

465
00:23:53,080 --> 00:23:56,119
Speaker 2: family called me directly and said, would you please come testify.

466
00:23:57,440 --> 00:24:00,280
Speaker 2: You know, this is our trial now, it's not skate

467
00:24:00,359 --> 00:24:02,400
Speaker 2: or anybody put it on. I said, I'll be there tomorrow.

468
00:24:02,800 --> 00:24:05,479
Speaker 2: So we always had a good relationship. But I just

469
00:24:05,520 --> 00:24:08,600
Speaker 2: thought to myself, if I tell them, they might try

470
00:24:08,640 --> 00:24:11,000
Speaker 2: to talk me out of it, and I really wanted

471
00:24:11,119 --> 00:24:13,479
Speaker 2: my heart to stay in it. Yeah, it's and to

472
00:24:13,480 --> 00:24:18,040
Speaker 2: be perfectly honest with you, it's Nick and my story.

473
00:24:18,640 --> 00:24:22,040
Speaker 2: It was our sar experience. I didn't really bring up

474
00:24:22,359 --> 00:24:27,159
Speaker 2: the family other than direct you know, incidents that we

475
00:24:27,240 --> 00:24:31,199
Speaker 2: talked about together. For I wanted to focus on the

476
00:24:31,240 --> 00:24:35,199
Speaker 2: story that Nick and I built together, the things together

477
00:24:35,359 --> 00:24:38,479
Speaker 2: and the emotions that we shared together that you know,

478
00:24:38,560 --> 00:24:39,959
Speaker 2: they weren't around for a lot of that.

479
00:24:40,480 --> 00:24:44,240
Speaker 3: Sure, I mean it's your right. It's your story. You

480
00:24:44,520 --> 00:24:47,960
Speaker 3: certainly have the right to tell it. And I'm sure

481
00:24:48,200 --> 00:24:50,320
Speaker 3: did you find it healing for you?

482
00:24:50,600 --> 00:24:55,840
Speaker 2: The process and painful and healing, you know it. It

483
00:24:55,880 --> 00:24:59,000
Speaker 2: opened a few wounds. It made me think about some

484
00:24:59,040 --> 00:25:01,879
Speaker 2: deep thoughts that had thought about in a mole. But

485
00:25:03,359 --> 00:25:05,639
Speaker 2: it kind of gave me the last word, you know.

486
00:25:05,680 --> 00:25:08,040
Speaker 2: That's the kind of willing part. It let me, and

487
00:25:08,080 --> 00:25:11,800
Speaker 2: it let me tell other people some things I've wanted

488
00:25:11,800 --> 00:25:15,960
Speaker 2: to get off my chest and hopefully find that and

489
00:25:16,080 --> 00:25:18,760
Speaker 2: the domestic violence side of it that we've talked about

490
00:25:19,160 --> 00:25:23,560
Speaker 2: several times during this Over the years, more and more

491
00:25:23,600 --> 00:25:26,960
Speaker 2: since the advent of social media, I've been contacted by

492
00:25:27,000 --> 00:25:30,760
Speaker 2: women who have been in abusive relationships who somehow, somehow

493
00:25:30,880 --> 00:25:35,040
Speaker 2: found my story inspirational. Yeah, that I was there for Nick,

494
00:25:35,240 --> 00:25:38,399
Speaker 2: that I helped Nick, that I protected her. And women

495
00:25:38,400 --> 00:25:41,840
Speaker 2: have reached out to me in the past telling me

496
00:25:41,840 --> 00:25:44,160
Speaker 2: I've given them the strength to get out of abusive relationships,

497
00:25:44,720 --> 00:25:47,440
Speaker 2: possibly saved their life. And I'm really good to hear,

498
00:25:47,600 --> 00:25:50,880
Speaker 2: very very good friends with several of them to this day.

499
00:25:51,359 --> 00:25:56,200
Speaker 2: So if somebody can read this book and wake up

500
00:25:56,200 --> 00:26:00,480
Speaker 2: tomorrow and say to themselves, I recognize this behavior. I

501
00:26:00,480 --> 00:26:03,199
Speaker 2: don't think it's ever going to change. Look what happened

502
00:26:03,200 --> 00:26:05,520
Speaker 2: to her, that could happen to me, and have the

503
00:26:05,560 --> 00:26:08,199
Speaker 2: strength to walk out and also know that there's a

504
00:26:08,240 --> 00:26:11,720
Speaker 2: lot more resources now. Denise. Yes, Denise is in the

505
00:26:11,760 --> 00:26:15,320
Speaker 2: process right now of writing a book focusing on domestic violence.

506
00:26:15,600 --> 00:26:18,399
Speaker 2: She talks about Nick obviously, but she's focusing on domestic

507
00:26:18,480 --> 00:26:22,840
Speaker 2: violence to try to help let women know there's outlets, now,

508
00:26:22,880 --> 00:26:26,560
Speaker 2: there's ps that Nick's murder brought a lot of that

509
00:26:26,600 --> 00:26:29,520
Speaker 2: to the forefront and hopefully will help more women get

510
00:26:29,520 --> 00:26:30,240
Speaker 2: out of that situation.

511
00:26:30,800 --> 00:26:35,679
Speaker 4: I think that that is a terrific, terrific goal and

512
00:26:35,760 --> 00:26:39,040
Speaker 4: great to hear because it is still such a taboo

513
00:26:39,119 --> 00:26:41,320
Speaker 4: thing for the people going through it to share.

514
00:26:41,560 --> 00:26:45,399
Speaker 3: It's very, very complicated, and I think people still really

515
00:26:45,440 --> 00:26:49,800
Speaker 3: don't understand how hard that is for women to extricate

516
00:26:49,880 --> 00:26:54,680
Speaker 3: themselves and how insidious that abusive behavior can be. And

517
00:26:56,400 --> 00:26:58,720
Speaker 3: it's just so important that people talk about it.

518
00:26:59,000 --> 00:27:01,240
Speaker 2: Thank you for bringing that up, because it's a big

519
00:27:01,240 --> 00:27:02,879
Speaker 2: part of why I wrote the book.

520
00:27:03,920 --> 00:27:06,600
Speaker 3: Was there anything in my last question about the series,

521
00:27:06,640 --> 00:27:10,520
Speaker 3: Was there anything in the series that felt like that

522
00:27:10,600 --> 00:27:12,439
Speaker 3: brought up things for you where you felt like, Oh,

523
00:27:12,720 --> 00:27:15,520
Speaker 3: I can't watch this now, it's too much.

524
00:27:15,640 --> 00:27:17,919
Speaker 1: Was there anything that was sort of hit too.

525
00:27:17,760 --> 00:27:21,159
Speaker 2: Close to home or no? Because they really didn't focus.

526
00:27:21,240 --> 00:27:25,639
Speaker 2: The things that really are truly emotional for me are

527
00:27:25,880 --> 00:27:30,320
Speaker 2: obviously the autopsy. You know what that savage did to

528
00:27:30,359 --> 00:27:34,640
Speaker 2: those two people, So I steer clear of all that.

529
00:27:34,880 --> 00:27:37,479
Speaker 2: Over the years. I've never looked at those photos. I

530
00:27:37,520 --> 00:27:40,639
Speaker 2: never will. There's no desire. I will never remember her

531
00:27:40,680 --> 00:27:43,840
Speaker 2: that way. I don't have any desire. So when they

532
00:27:43,840 --> 00:27:46,520
Speaker 2: showed some of those quick glimpses of the crime scene,

533
00:27:46,520 --> 00:27:49,320
Speaker 2: even though they were recreative, I sort of turned a

534
00:27:49,320 --> 00:27:53,720
Speaker 2: little bit because I don't want to associate Nick or

535
00:27:53,800 --> 00:27:56,720
Speaker 2: Ron with that. So that was really the part. But

536
00:27:56,800 --> 00:28:00,600
Speaker 2: all the other stuff I've lived, I've been through, so

537
00:28:00,840 --> 00:28:04,560
Speaker 2: I was familiar with, you know, most of it. I

538
00:28:04,600 --> 00:28:08,480
Speaker 2: don't like. I don't like them focusing on you know,

539
00:28:09,000 --> 00:28:11,560
Speaker 2: him and his accomplishments as much. But I understand that's

540
00:28:11,600 --> 00:28:16,520
Speaker 2: part of the story, right right, that sells the program.

541
00:28:16,720 --> 00:28:20,720
Speaker 3: Yeah, Well, is there anything last things you'd want to

542
00:28:20,720 --> 00:28:25,240
Speaker 3: say about you think there's anything that people misunderstood about

543
00:28:25,320 --> 00:28:29,480
Speaker 3: Nicole or anything that you'd like to sort of say

544
00:28:29,480 --> 00:28:31,760
Speaker 3: in your last moment here.

545
00:28:32,000 --> 00:28:34,560
Speaker 2: I would just like everybody to understand that she was

546
00:28:34,640 --> 00:28:40,840
Speaker 2: a living, breathing, wonderful human being and mother first and foremost.

547
00:28:40,880 --> 00:28:44,719
Speaker 2: Her whole life revolved around Sydney and Justin. Everything she

548
00:28:44,800 --> 00:28:50,440
Speaker 2: did was for their best interest and ultimately cost her

549
00:28:50,480 --> 00:28:53,480
Speaker 2: her life because that reconciliation was for the benefit of

550
00:28:53,480 --> 00:28:56,680
Speaker 2: Sidney and Justin. It wasn't for Nick, it wasn't right

551
00:28:57,040 --> 00:28:59,400
Speaker 2: for her and Oj. It was for the father of

552
00:28:59,400 --> 00:29:01,960
Speaker 2: those children and to be back in the family unit.

553
00:29:02,400 --> 00:29:05,560
Speaker 2: And that's what cost to her life because I truly

554
00:29:05,600 --> 00:29:08,520
Speaker 2: believe if she had never tried the reconciliation that things

555
00:29:08,560 --> 00:29:11,560
Speaker 2: would have drifted because they had already been apart for

556
00:29:11,600 --> 00:29:14,120
Speaker 2: a year and a half. Yeah, but because they got

557
00:29:14,160 --> 00:29:17,440
Speaker 2: back together and he got that emotional attachment again, when

558
00:29:17,480 --> 00:29:20,600
Speaker 2: he realized at the very end that he couldn't control

559
00:29:20,640 --> 00:29:23,920
Speaker 2: her anymore, is when he snapped. So what I want

560
00:29:23,920 --> 00:29:27,520
Speaker 2: people to understand is she was She was a wonderful,

561
00:29:27,760 --> 00:29:33,920
Speaker 2: wonderful person and I miss her dearly and Ron as well.

562
00:29:34,000 --> 00:29:36,640
Speaker 2: You know, I feel horrible the situation Ron was in,

563
00:29:36,880 --> 00:29:40,840
Speaker 2: and I like people to, you know, understand that that's

564
00:29:41,080 --> 00:29:45,000
Speaker 2: that's She's in my heart. She always will be I

565
00:29:45,000 --> 00:29:45,720
Speaker 2: never got married.

566
00:29:45,880 --> 00:29:48,080
Speaker 1: I never had children that I was going to ask, right,

567
00:29:48,160 --> 00:29:50,320
Speaker 1: you never got married, No, I.

568
00:29:50,160 --> 00:29:52,320
Speaker 2: You know, I dated over the years obviously, but I

569
00:29:52,480 --> 00:29:55,440
Speaker 2: just never could get that attachment that I feel like

570
00:29:55,560 --> 00:29:56,240
Speaker 2: I had with her.

571
00:29:56,600 --> 00:30:00,800
Speaker 3: So well, I really I'm honored speak with you today,

572
00:30:00,840 --> 00:30:06,640
Speaker 3: and I really appreciate how authentic and raw and forthcoming

573
00:30:06,680 --> 00:30:11,000
Speaker 3: you have been with your heart and your experiences. And

574
00:30:11,120 --> 00:30:14,360
Speaker 3: I hope that this process of talking about the book

575
00:30:14,400 --> 00:30:15,400
Speaker 3: and getting it out there that.

576
00:30:15,400 --> 00:30:22,520
Speaker 1: It really helps you to heal and kind of move forward.

577
00:30:22,720 --> 00:30:28,680
Speaker 3: And I really appreciate that you are looking to help

578
00:30:28,720 --> 00:30:32,400
Speaker 3: people that are going have could potentially be in these

579
00:30:32,440 --> 00:30:36,520
Speaker 3: situations now you know, to get out.

580
00:30:36,960 --> 00:30:39,360
Speaker 2: So the way to get the book if you're interested,

581
00:30:39,400 --> 00:30:42,480
Speaker 2: is on Amazon US. I published through Amazon, so the

582
00:30:42,520 --> 00:30:45,680
Speaker 2: book is called Stalked it could have been Me, So

583
00:30:45,720 --> 00:30:47,760
Speaker 2: you can type in the title or the title in

584
00:30:47,800 --> 00:30:50,840
Speaker 2: my name. There are numerous books on Amazon called stalk

585
00:30:50,960 --> 00:30:54,040
Speaker 2: so you'll find it right. I do have a website

586
00:30:54,120 --> 00:30:56,840
Speaker 2: dedicated to the book itself, but the website name is

587
00:30:56,880 --> 00:30:58,920
Speaker 2: slightly different. I couldn't get the name of the book.

588
00:30:59,080 --> 00:31:02,360
Speaker 2: It's called oj stalked me dot com. So if you

589
00:31:02,400 --> 00:31:05,680
Speaker 2: go to ojstalked me dot com. There's links to buy

590
00:31:05,760 --> 00:31:08,480
Speaker 2: the book on Amazon, and it also gives you a

591
00:31:08,560 --> 00:31:10,600
Speaker 2: synopsis of the book in the bio of me and

592
00:31:11,120 --> 00:31:13,800
Speaker 2: sort of contextualizes me a little bit. But I'd like

593
00:31:13,840 --> 00:31:17,440
Speaker 2: people to go buy it, read it, understand nixt story,

594
00:31:18,000 --> 00:31:19,960
Speaker 2: and hopefully enjoy it. Right.

595
00:31:21,000 --> 00:31:24,080
Speaker 3: Well, thank you again so much, Keith, and I just

596
00:31:24,120 --> 00:31:26,880
Speaker 3: swish you the best of everything. And again, I'm really

597
00:31:26,920 --> 00:31:29,160
Speaker 3: sorry for your loss.

598
00:31:29,520 --> 00:31:31,800
Speaker 2: Thank you for having me. I really appreciate the forum

599
00:31:31,880 --> 00:31:32,680
Speaker 2: to tell a story.

600
00:31:33,000 --> 00:31:36,120
Speaker 3: Yeah, okay, I want to hear what cases you all

601
00:31:36,200 --> 00:31:38,920
Speaker 3: are interested in hearing about. What are you watching that

602
00:31:39,000 --> 00:31:41,680
Speaker 3: you want us to talk about? What actors or producers

603
00:31:41,760 --> 00:31:44,200
Speaker 3: or directors do you want to hear from? Hit us

604
00:31:44,240 --> 00:31:47,960
Speaker 3: up at our dms at Killer Thriller Pod on Instagram

605
00:31:48,000 --> 00:31:50,960
Speaker 3: and TikTok and let us know. Make sure to follow

606
00:31:51,000 --> 00:31:53,920
Speaker 3: the pod on socials and subscribe to Amy and TJ

607
00:31:54,120 --> 00:31:58,200
Speaker 3: Presents wherever you listen to podcasts that will wrap us

608
00:31:58,240 --> 00:32:00,000
Speaker 3: up for today until next time.

609
00:32:00,080 --> 00:32:00,280
Speaker 2: Time