1 00:00:01,400 --> 00:00:09,119 Speaker 1: Quody doors, but Joseph's gotten more. Imagine you're in some 2 00:00:10,000 --> 00:00:15,120 Speaker 1: third world hellhole that our government has sent you to. 3 00:00:16,720 --> 00:00:24,319 Speaker 1: You're highly specialized. You can handle any situation, and your job, 4 00:00:24,360 --> 00:00:29,000 Speaker 1: in particular is to keep your teammates alive, and not 5 00:00:29,120 --> 00:00:33,560 Speaker 1: just from the perspective of say, planning an attack or 6 00:00:34,159 --> 00:00:36,760 Speaker 1: setting up a defense. I'm talking about their day to 7 00:00:36,920 --> 00:00:43,280 Speaker 1: day lives, treating them for stab wounds, gunshot wounds, blunt 8 00:00:43,280 --> 00:00:49,480 Speaker 1: force trauma, tropical diseases. Oh and by the way, you've 9 00:00:49,479 --> 00:00:52,840 Speaker 1: also gotten into the local villages and you're treating them 10 00:00:52,880 --> 00:00:56,959 Speaker 1: as well. The people that have never been inoculated who 11 00:00:57,040 --> 00:01:01,480 Speaker 1: I'm talking about right now are Green Beret medics. They 12 00:01:01,480 --> 00:01:04,360 Speaker 1: are some of the most fascinating special operations people on 13 00:01:04,360 --> 00:01:06,120 Speaker 1: the face of the planet because, believe it or not, 14 00:01:06,800 --> 00:01:10,960 Speaker 1: the training that you have to go through to become 15 00:01:11,440 --> 00:01:16,920 Speaker 1: a Green Berey metic equals that of a physician assistant, 16 00:01:18,319 --> 00:01:22,319 Speaker 1: and probably a little bit more because of the environments 17 00:01:22,319 --> 00:01:26,600 Speaker 1: that you go to. Today, we're going to talk about 18 00:01:26,640 --> 00:01:32,960 Speaker 1: one of these guys that honorably served, that retired and 19 00:01:33,200 --> 00:01:38,720 Speaker 1: was working actually at a university to receive his physician 20 00:01:39,000 --> 00:01:43,800 Speaker 1: assistant degree. But you know what, he'll never walk across 21 00:01:43,800 --> 00:01:50,040 Speaker 1: the stage because he's a homicide victim. Now coming to 22 00:01:50,080 --> 00:01:53,880 Speaker 1: you from the beautiful campus of Jacksonville State University, I'm 23 00:01:53,960 --> 00:02:02,040 Speaker 1: Joseph Scott Morgan and this is Bodybacks, Dave. I got 24 00:02:02,040 --> 00:02:06,000 Speaker 1: to tell you I've for a long time I thought 25 00:02:06,000 --> 00:02:09,679 Speaker 1: that I wanted to go into medicine. I really did. 26 00:02:09,720 --> 00:02:11,840 Speaker 1: I thought that that's what I wanted to do. Then 27 00:02:11,880 --> 00:02:15,520 Speaker 1: I discovered I have no bedside manner, and it probably 28 00:02:15,720 --> 00:02:20,240 Speaker 1: would be better with the dead, more than likely. And 29 00:02:18,600 --> 00:02:23,160 Speaker 1: I'm good. I'm good with people I love, but I 30 00:02:23,200 --> 00:02:29,560 Speaker 1: don't know about total strangers, and so I chose maybe 31 00:02:29,639 --> 00:02:33,280 Speaker 1: the path less tried. I don't know, but for me, 32 00:02:33,520 --> 00:02:36,840 Speaker 1: being around the dead was much more comfortable than being 33 00:02:36,960 --> 00:02:39,200 Speaker 1: in an exam room or certainly out in the field 34 00:02:39,240 --> 00:02:43,000 Speaker 1: treating somebody. I think I've done much better. But there 35 00:02:43,040 --> 00:02:44,960 Speaker 1: are people out there that have a gift for it. 36 00:02:45,000 --> 00:02:47,919 Speaker 1: They have a gift of healing, I think, and I'm 37 00:02:47,919 --> 00:02:50,040 Speaker 1: not talking about some kind of spiritual gift here. I'm 38 00:02:50,080 --> 00:02:52,800 Speaker 1: talking about the ability to utilize the tools that science 39 00:02:52,840 --> 00:02:55,560 Speaker 1: provides and to guide their hands in their mind in 40 00:02:55,639 --> 00:02:59,960 Speaker 1: order to make people better. And boy, I tell you 41 00:03:00,120 --> 00:03:06,160 Speaker 1: what green Berets that pursue this particular job set are there. 42 00:03:06,240 --> 00:03:07,880 Speaker 1: As far as I'm concerned, they're the best of the 43 00:03:07,880 --> 00:03:10,520 Speaker 1: best because it's very rigorous what they have to go through. 44 00:03:10,919 --> 00:03:14,399 Speaker 2: Whenever I think of Green Beret, Green Bray doctor in particular, 45 00:03:14,440 --> 00:03:16,680 Speaker 2: but Green Breays in general, you think that's a man's man, 46 00:03:17,120 --> 00:03:18,679 Speaker 2: you know. You think of the ballot of the Green 47 00:03:18,720 --> 00:03:22,320 Speaker 2: Berets and the history of the Green Beret. I think 48 00:03:22,360 --> 00:03:25,520 Speaker 2: of Jeffrey MacDonald, the one big failure of a Green Beret, 49 00:03:25,520 --> 00:03:27,440 Speaker 2: but he really was a fake one at that, even 50 00:03:27,480 --> 00:03:30,399 Speaker 2: though he's a doctor. But in this particular case, we're 51 00:03:30,400 --> 00:03:36,480 Speaker 2: dealing with a man who Clinton Bonnell, who served two 52 00:03:36,520 --> 00:03:41,160 Speaker 2: tours of duty in a rock which I cannot imagine 53 00:03:41,200 --> 00:03:43,640 Speaker 2: what that had to have been like for somebody working 54 00:03:43,680 --> 00:03:46,720 Speaker 2: in the medical field, in the field like that, I 55 00:03:46,760 --> 00:03:50,600 Speaker 2: really can't, Joe. It goes beyond what I can even imagine. 56 00:03:50,640 --> 00:03:54,040 Speaker 2: I mean, we see movies and things, and you see 57 00:03:54,040 --> 00:03:56,160 Speaker 2: what's going on, and we hear about these things, but 58 00:03:56,400 --> 00:04:01,480 Speaker 2: I really cannot put myself into that person, you know, 59 00:04:01,760 --> 00:04:04,920 Speaker 2: and imagine what it's like to wake up knowing today 60 00:04:05,000 --> 00:04:07,200 Speaker 2: could be your last day. All the while you're trying 61 00:04:07,240 --> 00:04:09,640 Speaker 2: to save lives and you could die in the process. 62 00:04:09,680 --> 00:04:12,760 Speaker 2: This is a heroic job that you live with twenty 63 00:04:12,800 --> 00:04:13,360 Speaker 2: four to seven. 64 00:04:14,080 --> 00:04:16,599 Speaker 1: And you know the two tours that you mentioned, that's 65 00:04:16,600 --> 00:04:19,560 Speaker 1: the tours that we know about, because I. 66 00:04:19,480 --> 00:04:20,600 Speaker 2: Was going to ask you about that. 67 00:04:21,040 --> 00:04:23,760 Speaker 1: They can be deployed all over the world well, and 68 00:04:23,920 --> 00:04:27,080 Speaker 1: a lot of it depends on which which Special Forces 69 00:04:27,160 --> 00:04:31,520 Speaker 1: group they're in, and so there are various groups and 70 00:04:31,720 --> 00:04:35,960 Speaker 1: each group, and some folks might not know this. I've 71 00:04:36,000 --> 00:04:38,599 Speaker 1: got friends that are in special operations. I've got former 72 00:04:38,640 --> 00:04:40,240 Speaker 1: students that are special operations. 73 00:04:40,400 --> 00:04:42,600 Speaker 2: This is the difference between you and me. You've got 74 00:04:42,600 --> 00:04:45,200 Speaker 2: friends in special I've got friends in low places. You've 75 00:04:45,200 --> 00:04:46,599 Speaker 2: got friends in Special Forces. 76 00:04:46,640 --> 00:04:48,560 Speaker 1: You know some of them are low places too and 77 00:04:48,600 --> 00:04:52,880 Speaker 1: have been in low places. But you know, I've I 78 00:04:53,000 --> 00:04:56,560 Speaker 1: was I've always been enamored of them. I was just 79 00:04:56,640 --> 00:04:59,200 Speaker 1: an old dog faced soldier. I never did anything special. 80 00:04:59,240 --> 00:05:02,799 Speaker 1: But see what they go through, and that these guys 81 00:05:02,839 --> 00:05:08,520 Speaker 1: are so highly specialized. Not only would he have had 82 00:05:08,520 --> 00:05:10,720 Speaker 1: to go through all of his training, which is extensive. 83 00:05:10,760 --> 00:05:12,719 Speaker 1: By the way, there, did you know that the Green 84 00:05:12,720 --> 00:05:15,760 Speaker 1: Berets and those that are in the training And I 85 00:05:15,800 --> 00:05:18,440 Speaker 1: actually met a couple At one point in time, they 86 00:05:18,440 --> 00:05:21,360 Speaker 1: were at Grady Hospital in Atlanta and they had been 87 00:05:21,400 --> 00:05:24,520 Speaker 1: sent there to work in the emergency room, and that 88 00:05:24,600 --> 00:05:26,479 Speaker 1: was part of their training. And they would go to 89 00:05:26,560 --> 00:05:33,039 Speaker 1: big cities where there was trauma, a lot of trauma, 90 00:05:33,200 --> 00:05:37,480 Speaker 1: particularly gunshot firearms related trauma that they could get hands 91 00:05:37,520 --> 00:05:40,840 Speaker 1: on training with when they you know, when the individuals 92 00:05:40,920 --> 00:05:43,120 Speaker 1: roll through the door, because I mean, let's face it, 93 00:05:43,160 --> 00:05:46,040 Speaker 1: some of our cities are like war zones and that's 94 00:05:46,040 --> 00:05:47,960 Speaker 1: about as close as you're ever going to. You can't 95 00:05:48,279 --> 00:05:51,040 Speaker 1: replicate that in the field. You know, you you might 96 00:05:51,080 --> 00:05:53,719 Speaker 1: could go out and if you've got a I don't know, 97 00:05:53,760 --> 00:05:57,960 Speaker 1: a carcass of an animal, as you Mike, could shoot 98 00:05:58,000 --> 00:06:05,040 Speaker 1: it and you know, try to repair a dead animal's injury. 99 00:06:05,760 --> 00:06:09,680 Speaker 1: But the dead animal isn't writhing around and trying to 100 00:06:09,720 --> 00:06:12,400 Speaker 1: fight you every step of the way, and you're not 101 00:06:12,440 --> 00:06:14,840 Speaker 1: having to talk with them. It requires no bedside manner. 102 00:06:14,960 --> 00:06:19,040 Speaker 1: So they would actually go into these environments to prepare 103 00:06:20,120 --> 00:06:22,960 Speaker 1: to go into what are referred to as austere environments 104 00:06:22,960 --> 00:06:25,680 Speaker 1: where they can operate and they can operate. David to 105 00:06:25,680 --> 00:06:29,159 Speaker 1: think about it is these guys and when I say operate, 106 00:06:29,640 --> 00:06:35,000 Speaker 1: operates interchangeable with operations as well. They operate as Special 107 00:06:35,040 --> 00:06:38,520 Speaker 1: Forces soldiers because they can kill you as well as helia. 108 00:06:39,920 --> 00:06:42,679 Speaker 1: But in addition to that, they can actually do minor 109 00:06:42,680 --> 00:06:45,840 Speaker 1: surgeries in the field or get you stabilized until they 110 00:06:45,839 --> 00:06:48,200 Speaker 1: can get a helo to get you back to a 111 00:06:48,240 --> 00:06:53,480 Speaker 1: base camp where there is an area of medical unit 112 00:06:53,560 --> 00:06:56,200 Speaker 1: so that they can do extensive surgery. And there's all 113 00:06:56,279 --> 00:06:58,440 Speaker 1: kinds of stories going all the way back to Vietnam 114 00:06:58,520 --> 00:07:04,520 Speaker 1: about the heroics of Special Forces medics. Their training is 115 00:07:04,600 --> 00:07:06,960 Speaker 1: unbelievable and it's intense, and to think about it, is 116 00:07:07,400 --> 00:07:11,680 Speaker 1: you worked untethered. Imagine that you have no support system 117 00:07:11,680 --> 00:07:14,800 Speaker 1: behind you. It's not like, you know, you can run 118 00:07:15,360 --> 00:07:17,480 Speaker 1: run down the street and go to supply room and 119 00:07:17,520 --> 00:07:20,160 Speaker 1: get some more bandages or something. What you got is 120 00:07:20,160 --> 00:07:21,600 Speaker 1: what you got. And if you've only got a pack 121 00:07:21,640 --> 00:07:23,400 Speaker 1: with you out in the field and you're going to 122 00:07:23,400 --> 00:07:27,320 Speaker 1: have to maybe extract a bullet, a projectile, srow somebody up, 123 00:07:28,440 --> 00:07:31,040 Speaker 1: hang an IV, you have to bring all of that 124 00:07:31,120 --> 00:07:34,080 Speaker 1: with you and you have to be prepared to administer 125 00:07:34,120 --> 00:07:36,559 Speaker 1: all that stuff and maybe do it in a mud 126 00:07:36,560 --> 00:07:39,920 Speaker 1: hole while you're doing it. Can you imagine that that's why. 127 00:07:40,000 --> 00:07:43,200 Speaker 2: It just boggles my mind for real. But you know, 128 00:07:43,240 --> 00:07:45,320 Speaker 2: we do have people like that in our world that 129 00:07:45,520 --> 00:07:50,800 Speaker 2: just they have a different skill set emotionally, psychologically, physically 130 00:07:50,880 --> 00:07:54,000 Speaker 2: and Clinton but now was that person. So he does 131 00:07:54,040 --> 00:07:56,960 Speaker 2: all this in his military career. He's fifty years old. 132 00:07:57,120 --> 00:07:59,760 Speaker 2: He retires, okay, his day of retirement was the last 133 00:07:59,840 --> 00:08:02,520 Speaker 2: day of last year, December thirty first, twenty twenty four. 134 00:08:02,760 --> 00:08:07,400 Speaker 2: He retires from the military and begins his new life. 135 00:08:08,280 --> 00:08:12,560 Speaker 2: And it's amazing to me that a man with his 136 00:08:12,720 --> 00:08:16,200 Speaker 2: background could serve as you mentioned, two tours in erect 137 00:08:16,240 --> 00:08:18,360 Speaker 2: that we know about, no telling what else he has 138 00:08:18,400 --> 00:08:24,400 Speaker 2: seen and done. But he comes home and less than 139 00:08:24,560 --> 00:08:27,640 Speaker 2: four months, two months after his retirement, less than a 140 00:08:27,720 --> 00:08:33,120 Speaker 2: month after his retirement, he goes missing. Twenty nine days 141 00:08:33,200 --> 00:08:36,800 Speaker 2: after his retirement, the man is missing, Joe actually be 142 00:08:36,840 --> 00:08:40,800 Speaker 2: twenty eight days January twenty eighth, he goes missing. And 143 00:08:41,000 --> 00:08:43,360 Speaker 2: he was such an on time cat. He was one 144 00:08:43,400 --> 00:08:45,200 Speaker 2: of these guys that you know, you really could set 145 00:08:45,200 --> 00:08:49,240 Speaker 2: your watch by. You knew if he's not here, something's wrong. 146 00:08:49,280 --> 00:08:49,880 Speaker 1: It's problems. 147 00:08:50,280 --> 00:08:52,480 Speaker 2: So, like many of our stories, this one starts with 148 00:08:52,559 --> 00:08:55,520 Speaker 2: a well being checked. January twenty eighth, twenty twenty five, 149 00:08:55,960 --> 00:09:00,840 Speaker 2: he doesn't show up for his physician assistant class, so 150 00:09:00,880 --> 00:09:05,079 Speaker 2: an employee at Methodist University calls Cumbalen County Sheriff's office 151 00:09:05,280 --> 00:09:07,719 Speaker 2: and says, hey, go and check on this guy. He 152 00:09:08,160 --> 00:09:11,400 Speaker 2: never misses, He's always here. Something is wrong. We can't 153 00:09:11,400 --> 00:09:13,720 Speaker 2: get him, so they do. They go by to check, 154 00:09:13,760 --> 00:09:18,920 Speaker 2: talk to his wife, Shiera or Shannon. Cloud says, hadn't 155 00:09:18,920 --> 00:09:20,600 Speaker 2: seen him since last night. Don't know where he is, 156 00:09:20,720 --> 00:09:24,120 Speaker 2: don't have to come on and his car's there, his 157 00:09:24,200 --> 00:09:28,480 Speaker 2: stuff is there, but he's not there now, Joe, you 158 00:09:28,520 --> 00:09:30,160 Speaker 2: and I have done a number of stories about to 159 00:09:30,280 --> 00:09:34,920 Speaker 2: begin with a well being check, and usually you get 160 00:09:34,960 --> 00:09:37,760 Speaker 2: that one call and they go out and they check 161 00:09:37,920 --> 00:09:40,040 Speaker 2: and walk away. When one's an adult, he has a 162 00:09:40,080 --> 00:09:41,679 Speaker 2: right to do whatever he wants. We don't know where 163 00:09:41,720 --> 00:09:44,760 Speaker 2: he is. How much more can you really do? But 164 00:09:44,920 --> 00:09:48,240 Speaker 2: oddly enough, in a really strange turn of events, Sheriff's 165 00:09:48,280 --> 00:09:51,200 Speaker 2: department gets a second call on the same day, hours 166 00:09:51,240 --> 00:09:55,000 Speaker 2: after the first one. It's another person, a friend. This 167 00:09:55,120 --> 00:09:57,840 Speaker 2: time a close friend calls them and asks for a 168 00:09:57,840 --> 00:10:02,280 Speaker 2: well being check because he's not answering text messages and 169 00:10:02,320 --> 00:10:07,800 Speaker 2: he always does, so that actually sends their little antenna 170 00:10:07,880 --> 00:10:09,800 Speaker 2: up a little bit further. We got to check on 171 00:10:09,880 --> 00:10:13,120 Speaker 2: something here. So two well being checks hours apart in 172 00:10:13,200 --> 00:10:16,760 Speaker 2: the same day, and lo and behold, they find out 173 00:10:16,880 --> 00:10:20,280 Speaker 2: that his wife, Shanna Cloud, has not been the one 174 00:10:20,320 --> 00:10:24,199 Speaker 2: to file a missing person report. You know, I don't 175 00:10:24,240 --> 00:10:27,760 Speaker 2: know the rules on this, Joe. If I go missing, 176 00:10:28,520 --> 00:10:30,400 Speaker 2: how long or if you can't get up with me, 177 00:10:30,760 --> 00:10:33,360 Speaker 2: how long before you can report me missing? Do they 178 00:10:33,360 --> 00:10:36,000 Speaker 2: make you wait? You know? Forty eight hours? There is 179 00:10:36,040 --> 00:10:38,640 Speaker 2: a timetable. You can't just say day's fifteen minutes late. 180 00:10:38,679 --> 00:10:41,240 Speaker 2: He's missing, you know, and you're an adult. You have 181 00:10:41,280 --> 00:10:42,720 Speaker 2: the right to do what you want. I think there 182 00:10:42,800 --> 00:10:45,360 Speaker 2: is usually twenty four to forty eight hours unless they 183 00:10:45,480 --> 00:10:46,280 Speaker 2: find blood, right. 184 00:10:46,280 --> 00:10:49,319 Speaker 1: Yeah, twenty four I've heard seventy two as well. Okay, 185 00:10:49,480 --> 00:10:54,240 Speaker 1: seventy two hours, three days. Yeah, our continuum extends out 186 00:10:54,240 --> 00:10:56,200 Speaker 1: further and further. You know, we were just talking about 187 00:10:56,200 --> 00:11:01,040 Speaker 1: this young girl that would Nancy, that has gone missing 188 00:11:02,200 --> 00:11:04,240 Speaker 1: and they thought that maybe she had been spirited away 189 00:11:04,280 --> 00:11:07,240 Speaker 1: to Moldova. Again. This is another case out of North Carolina, 190 00:11:07,240 --> 00:11:07,640 Speaker 1: by the way. 191 00:11:07,720 --> 00:11:08,360 Speaker 2: Yeah, that's crazy. 192 00:11:08,440 --> 00:11:13,000 Speaker 1: We were talking about this very this very thing yesterday 193 00:11:13,040 --> 00:11:15,680 Speaker 1: with Nancy on her show about the further out in 194 00:11:15,760 --> 00:11:19,520 Speaker 1: time that you extend on that timeline, the you know 195 00:11:19,559 --> 00:11:23,480 Speaker 1: you're it's a diminishment of everything involved. First the physical 196 00:11:23,480 --> 00:11:26,319 Speaker 1: location where the individual is, any evidence that's left behind, 197 00:11:27,080 --> 00:11:31,040 Speaker 1: anybody that may have seen something that just they they've 198 00:11:31,080 --> 00:11:33,560 Speaker 1: now gone on about their life. So you're losing little 199 00:11:33,559 --> 00:11:37,000 Speaker 1: bits and pieces. I tell you what's more, what's more 200 00:11:37,000 --> 00:11:40,360 Speaker 1: compelling to me than anything about this is that the 201 00:11:40,440 --> 00:11:45,640 Speaker 1: domestic situation where you've got a wife who shows up, 202 00:11:45,960 --> 00:11:49,000 Speaker 1: you know who the popo show up at their house? 203 00:11:50,120 --> 00:11:53,480 Speaker 1: You know where is he? And it's like, I don't know, 204 00:11:53,960 --> 00:11:57,719 Speaker 1: I have no idea he you know, his belongings are here, 205 00:11:57,800 --> 00:12:00,319 Speaker 1: is cars here, don't I don't know where he is. 206 00:12:00,960 --> 00:12:02,800 Speaker 1: And I guess that there are people that live their 207 00:12:02,840 --> 00:12:05,600 Speaker 1: lives that way, you know, and you know, good lucky, 208 00:12:05,679 --> 00:12:06,240 Speaker 1: God speed. 209 00:12:06,640 --> 00:12:08,960 Speaker 2: But I don't know anybody like that, Joe, do you. 210 00:12:09,400 --> 00:12:11,600 Speaker 1: I mean, I just before I started this, I've just 211 00:12:11,640 --> 00:12:13,560 Speaker 1: got the phone, Kimmy. I mean, you know, I know 212 00:12:13,800 --> 00:12:15,800 Speaker 1: exactly where she is, what she's doing, and she knows 213 00:12:15,840 --> 00:12:18,800 Speaker 1: what I'm doing. And the next question is when are 214 00:12:18,800 --> 00:12:22,600 Speaker 1: you coming home? Right? And so you know, and you 215 00:12:22,679 --> 00:12:27,040 Speaker 1: know and I'm not trying to like Joe. It is. 216 00:12:28,400 --> 00:12:30,920 Speaker 1: You know, we're not like roommates in college. You know 217 00:12:30,960 --> 00:12:33,840 Speaker 1: where you know, I don't know where my roommate is. 218 00:12:33,960 --> 00:12:35,600 Speaker 1: You know, I have no idea. I got four other 219 00:12:35,679 --> 00:12:37,679 Speaker 1: roommates in here, and I have no idea where they are. 220 00:12:37,760 --> 00:12:39,920 Speaker 1: I think they were going home this weekend. It's not 221 00:12:40,000 --> 00:12:43,040 Speaker 1: like that. You're married. You're married, you know where's where's 222 00:12:43,080 --> 00:12:46,680 Speaker 1: your husband? You know what's what's going on? And look, 223 00:12:46,720 --> 00:12:50,960 Speaker 1: I got to tell you this. There's an old adage 224 00:12:51,960 --> 00:12:56,040 Speaker 1: in the military, and here's how it goes. And I 225 00:12:56,080 --> 00:12:59,120 Speaker 1: have tried to teach this to my son since he 226 00:12:59,240 --> 00:13:05,880 Speaker 1: was little. It goes like this, to be early is 227 00:13:05,880 --> 00:13:09,200 Speaker 1: to be on time. To be on time is to 228 00:13:09,280 --> 00:13:14,760 Speaker 1: be late, and to be late is unforgivable. In our 229 00:13:14,840 --> 00:13:21,040 Speaker 1: case today, he never showed up. The question is who 230 00:13:21,080 --> 00:13:37,320 Speaker 1: exactly are we not forgiving for this? Well, you know, Dave, 231 00:13:38,040 --> 00:13:41,160 Speaker 1: I think that the old saying birds of a feather 232 00:13:41,240 --> 00:13:48,959 Speaker 1: flock together when we begin to think about Clinton Bonnell, who, 233 00:13:49,240 --> 00:13:54,160 Speaker 1: by the way, is retired Army Green Beret medical sergeant. 234 00:13:57,440 --> 00:14:04,440 Speaker 1: He's married to Shannon Cloud and she's a former traveling nurse, 235 00:14:06,920 --> 00:14:09,320 Speaker 1: which in and of itself. I've got family members that 236 00:14:09,480 --> 00:14:12,960 Speaker 1: have done traveling nursing, which is fascinating because you talk about, 237 00:14:13,679 --> 00:14:18,280 Speaker 1: you know, leaving everything behind and kind of heading out 238 00:14:18,760 --> 00:14:23,160 Speaker 1: to do your thing in different locations. And it's kind 239 00:14:23,200 --> 00:14:31,240 Speaker 1: of interesting that she now, I think, works for the 240 00:14:31,400 --> 00:14:36,120 Speaker 1: Virginia Department of Corrections now, and she's formerly a traveling nurse, 241 00:14:36,160 --> 00:14:40,840 Speaker 1: and of course corrections, you know, departments have nurses obviously, 242 00:14:40,920 --> 00:14:44,280 Speaker 1: But people say, well, how could she be a traveling 243 00:14:44,360 --> 00:14:47,560 Speaker 1: nurse and be married. Well, here's the thing about it. 244 00:14:47,600 --> 00:14:51,520 Speaker 1: If you work in special operations, it's not like you're 245 00:14:51,520 --> 00:14:55,239 Speaker 1: in like a gigantic division like the eighty second Airborne 246 00:14:55,320 --> 00:14:58,120 Speaker 1: or one hundred and first or the twenty fifth Infantry Division, 247 00:14:58,840 --> 00:15:02,880 Speaker 1: where you know that that big unit is moving and 248 00:15:02,920 --> 00:15:06,640 Speaker 1: they do weeks and weeks of spinning up and preparing 249 00:15:06,720 --> 00:15:10,120 Speaker 1: papers and all that stuff before people ship out. If 250 00:15:10,120 --> 00:15:12,960 Speaker 1: you're in special operations, you can be gone like that, 251 00:15:13,840 --> 00:15:16,240 Speaker 1: and you could be gone for a protracted period of time. 252 00:15:16,320 --> 00:15:18,880 Speaker 1: And here's another thing. You're not always going to be 253 00:15:18,880 --> 00:15:21,800 Speaker 1: able to tell your family members where you're going. Okay, 254 00:15:21,920 --> 00:15:25,320 Speaker 1: it's called opsec. It's operation security, and so you might 255 00:15:25,360 --> 00:15:28,880 Speaker 1: not know, but that would actually fit well if they're 256 00:15:28,920 --> 00:15:32,280 Speaker 1: married and she had been a traveling nurse, because if 257 00:15:32,320 --> 00:15:34,800 Speaker 1: he's not at home, why does she need to be 258 00:15:34,800 --> 00:15:37,720 Speaker 1: at home. She could be out making really good money. 259 00:15:38,800 --> 00:15:42,720 Speaker 1: She's a military dependent, so her Benny's are all covered, 260 00:15:43,480 --> 00:15:47,480 Speaker 1: got that track care working, and so she's she's out 261 00:15:47,640 --> 00:15:54,440 Speaker 1: being a traveling nurse. And now they've settled, apparently in 262 00:15:54,520 --> 00:15:58,960 Speaker 1: this location and he's in retirement. I'm fascinated by this 263 00:15:59,320 --> 00:16:05,560 Speaker 1: relative to the life that they had lived and to 264 00:16:05,640 --> 00:16:08,120 Speaker 1: the point where he's retired. Now you talk about throwing 265 00:16:08,160 --> 00:16:11,320 Speaker 1: the anchor out and changing lifestyles all of a sudden. 266 00:16:12,080 --> 00:16:14,840 Speaker 1: This is It's a mind blowing adjustment, Dave. 267 00:16:15,200 --> 00:16:19,360 Speaker 2: It is, and I think that's what As the deputies 268 00:16:19,680 --> 00:16:22,600 Speaker 2: are doing the first well being check, and you know, 269 00:16:22,640 --> 00:16:25,120 Speaker 2: they talk afterwards, you know, of what they saw, the 270 00:16:25,160 --> 00:16:27,200 Speaker 2: demeanor of the person they greeted it and in this 271 00:16:27,280 --> 00:16:30,720 Speaker 2: case it's his wife. They're already starting to piece things together, 272 00:16:30,960 --> 00:16:33,280 Speaker 2: and when they go back to headquarters, you know, well, 273 00:16:33,560 --> 00:16:35,840 Speaker 2: no matter what, no matter what we think, what we 274 00:16:35,880 --> 00:16:39,400 Speaker 2: saw there is a man who now is missing, a 275 00:16:39,400 --> 00:16:42,320 Speaker 2: man that was very dependable. He's missing, and his wife 276 00:16:42,360 --> 00:16:44,520 Speaker 2: says she doesn't know where he is and doesn't seem 277 00:16:44,560 --> 00:16:47,680 Speaker 2: to be too concerned about it. So when a missing 278 00:16:47,720 --> 00:16:51,400 Speaker 2: person's report is filed, it was not done by his wife. 279 00:16:51,600 --> 00:16:55,520 Speaker 2: That's becoming more common in the stories we cover. But 280 00:16:57,040 --> 00:17:00,640 Speaker 2: they served their first search warrant on January thirty. First, 281 00:17:00,680 --> 00:17:02,840 Speaker 2: I say, they being the Sheriff's department, but I want 282 00:17:02,840 --> 00:17:05,480 Speaker 2: to point this out because on the twenty eighth, we 283 00:17:05,560 --> 00:17:07,600 Speaker 2: don't know where he is. And this is where I 284 00:17:07,640 --> 00:17:09,720 Speaker 2: went back to that twenty four forty eight hours. How 285 00:17:09,760 --> 00:17:12,800 Speaker 2: long do they have to wait? You mentioned the story 286 00:17:12,840 --> 00:17:17,439 Speaker 2: of Madelina Coachacre in North Carolina where she was not 287 00:17:17,520 --> 00:17:20,800 Speaker 2: reported missing for three weeks, and this is a child 288 00:17:20,840 --> 00:17:23,679 Speaker 2: we're talking about there that the parents didn't report her missing, 289 00:17:23,760 --> 00:17:26,920 Speaker 2: and they in North Carolina have a thing called Kaylee's 290 00:17:27,000 --> 00:17:31,240 Speaker 2: Law based on Kaylee Anthony, where a parent only has 291 00:17:31,240 --> 00:17:34,439 Speaker 2: twenty four hours to report a child missing, which Joe, 292 00:17:34,560 --> 00:17:37,719 Speaker 2: I don't know any person that would not report their 293 00:17:37,800 --> 00:17:41,239 Speaker 2: child missing immediately, you know, But there are you know, 294 00:17:41,280 --> 00:17:43,240 Speaker 2: in cases that we've covered where they don't do that. 295 00:17:43,560 --> 00:17:46,680 Speaker 2: But the same is true here. You've got a man 296 00:17:46,720 --> 00:17:49,040 Speaker 2: that's missing and people are concerned because it's not like 297 00:17:49,080 --> 00:17:52,560 Speaker 2: his current situation he's not currently active in the Green Beret. 298 00:17:52,840 --> 00:17:55,840 Speaker 2: He's not currently active in the military going overseason fighting, 299 00:17:55,880 --> 00:17:57,800 Speaker 2: he's not doing any of that. He's now into a 300 00:17:57,880 --> 00:18:00,560 Speaker 2: very subtle life and he's got class is to go 301 00:18:00,600 --> 00:18:03,960 Speaker 2: to and he didn't show up. He is missing. So 302 00:18:04,000 --> 00:18:06,840 Speaker 2: they filed the mission in personport three days after the 303 00:18:06,880 --> 00:18:09,440 Speaker 2: well being check, and they served the first of two 304 00:18:09,440 --> 00:18:13,359 Speaker 2: search warrants at the house. Based on what I know now, 305 00:18:14,560 --> 00:18:17,560 Speaker 2: I pretty much think I know what they found during 306 00:18:17,600 --> 00:18:20,800 Speaker 2: the first search warrant, at least the second one when 307 00:18:20,880 --> 00:18:24,600 Speaker 2: they went into the house. So investigators start piecing this 308 00:18:24,720 --> 00:18:29,560 Speaker 2: together and they go and travel up to Virginia. That's 309 00:18:29,600 --> 00:18:34,640 Speaker 2: where Shanna Cloud when she was working as a traveling nurse, 310 00:18:34,680 --> 00:18:40,360 Speaker 2: you know, with the prison system, she traveled through Virginia. 311 00:18:40,440 --> 00:18:43,160 Speaker 2: They had property of in Virginia. I got a lake cabin, 312 00:18:43,240 --> 00:18:47,080 Speaker 2: I believe in some other things. And so deputies actually 313 00:18:47,119 --> 00:18:50,880 Speaker 2: working with people up in Virginia, Virginia State Police, they 314 00:18:51,720 --> 00:18:55,600 Speaker 2: meet with them up there and they search one of 315 00:18:55,640 --> 00:19:00,400 Speaker 2: Shanna Cloud's vehicles, rental properties, cell phones, start to put 316 00:19:00,400 --> 00:19:03,080 Speaker 2: a few things together. They serve a few more search 317 00:19:03,080 --> 00:19:05,800 Speaker 2: warns over the next couple of days, and during the 318 00:19:05,920 --> 00:19:09,760 Speaker 2: entire month of February. Now remember dayline, December thirty first, 319 00:19:09,800 --> 00:19:15,600 Speaker 2: twenty twenty four. Clinton Bonnell retires from the military January 320 00:19:15,600 --> 00:19:20,800 Speaker 2: twenty eighth. He goes missing. We're into February. I think 321 00:19:20,920 --> 00:19:23,280 Speaker 2: the shocking part for me the man had one month 322 00:19:23,280 --> 00:19:29,399 Speaker 2: out of the military and goes missing. That just is beyond. 323 00:19:29,359 --> 00:19:35,040 Speaker 1: It's absolute nuts. And I can tell you, dude, he 324 00:19:35,320 --> 00:19:39,919 Speaker 1: would have been celebratory. You know, this is a benchmark 325 00:19:40,000 --> 00:19:45,600 Speaker 1: moment that people wait for. They wait for that day 326 00:19:46,000 --> 00:19:49,280 Speaker 1: and to do their twenty where they're going to be vested, 327 00:19:49,840 --> 00:19:52,840 Speaker 1: and then they look back and they say, I've done 328 00:19:52,880 --> 00:19:56,919 Speaker 1: my time, I've served my country, and I'm up and out. 329 00:19:57,080 --> 00:20:00,200 Speaker 1: And so the fact that he had gotten in to 330 00:20:00,440 --> 00:20:05,000 Speaker 1: this physician assistant program at Methodist University, which by the way, 331 00:20:05,160 --> 00:20:10,239 Speaker 1: is quite a good one. He was not just going 332 00:20:10,320 --> 00:20:14,240 Speaker 1: to sit at home and twiddle his thumbs and you know, 333 00:20:14,320 --> 00:20:16,679 Speaker 1: lay back on his laurels. He was going to get 334 00:20:17,359 --> 00:20:20,040 Speaker 1: He's fifty, you know, he's still got a lot of 335 00:20:20,119 --> 00:20:22,760 Speaker 1: work life left and can you imagine all of that. 336 00:20:22,760 --> 00:20:26,040 Speaker 1: He would be a very desirable commodity. You know, once 337 00:20:26,119 --> 00:20:30,359 Speaker 1: you get the degree and you pass your boards, you know, 338 00:20:30,560 --> 00:20:32,800 Speaker 1: it's something to be able to say, well, you know, 339 00:20:32,840 --> 00:20:35,400 Speaker 1: we've got a PA that works in the emergency room. 340 00:20:35,400 --> 00:20:37,120 Speaker 1: Maybe that's what he wants to do. And he works 341 00:20:37,160 --> 00:20:39,479 Speaker 1: three nights a week. He's going to go in there 342 00:20:39,520 --> 00:20:42,520 Speaker 1: and work and there's not really that much that's probably 343 00:20:42,560 --> 00:20:45,800 Speaker 1: going to shock him, you know, or you know, he 344 00:20:46,240 --> 00:20:49,360 Speaker 1: might work. I don't know, he might he might want 345 00:20:49,400 --> 00:20:52,400 Speaker 1: to be a pediatric PA. You know, he might want 346 00:20:52,400 --> 00:20:55,080 Speaker 1: to work with little kids, because you know, these guys 347 00:20:55,119 --> 00:20:57,960 Speaker 1: when they're out in the field, they're going into villages 348 00:20:58,280 --> 00:21:01,720 Speaker 1: and they're treating people that wouldn't otherwise get medical help. 349 00:21:03,280 --> 00:21:05,800 Speaker 1: Our guys did that for years and years, both in 350 00:21:05,960 --> 00:21:10,040 Speaker 1: Rock and even more so I think in Afghanistan where 351 00:21:10,040 --> 00:21:13,359 Speaker 1: these people are so isolated, and he's somebody. Here's the 352 00:21:13,359 --> 00:21:15,560 Speaker 1: thing about it, Daved, this is not a normal fifty 353 00:21:15,640 --> 00:21:18,760 Speaker 1: year old. This is a guy who's well prepared to 354 00:21:18,800 --> 00:21:22,280 Speaker 1: take care of himself. I mean, he's like, I wouldn't 355 00:21:22,280 --> 00:21:24,639 Speaker 1: want to cross paths with him. Actually, that's what I 356 00:21:24,720 --> 00:21:25,880 Speaker 1: was thinking, Jarm. 357 00:21:26,280 --> 00:21:31,600 Speaker 2: Yeah, this is a man's man and he's again just retired. 358 00:21:31,640 --> 00:21:35,720 Speaker 2: He's only fifty and it's a different world now. So 359 00:21:35,920 --> 00:21:38,760 Speaker 2: when he's missing and they start investigating. They know they're 360 00:21:38,800 --> 00:21:40,800 Speaker 2: not going to have a happy ending. He's not hiding, 361 00:21:40,840 --> 00:21:42,960 Speaker 2: he's not shocked up in a hotel smoking crack. You 362 00:21:42,960 --> 00:21:47,000 Speaker 2: know that's not him. So they, being the investigators, they're 363 00:21:47,000 --> 00:21:50,080 Speaker 2: already searching multiple states. You know, they're pulling all the 364 00:21:50,160 --> 00:21:53,320 Speaker 2: data they can find on every any digital thing he 365 00:21:53,359 --> 00:21:57,399 Speaker 2: gets online. They've got records of it now. And it 366 00:21:57,440 --> 00:22:00,439 Speaker 2: goes back to old school stuff because on February twenty fifth, 367 00:22:00,800 --> 00:22:03,919 Speaker 2: less than a month into the investigation, a property owner 368 00:22:04,040 --> 00:22:09,480 Speaker 2: checking some land wooded area about three miles from where 369 00:22:10,240 --> 00:22:15,399 Speaker 2: Clemt Bonnell lives finds what appears to be human remains 370 00:22:15,880 --> 00:22:21,040 Speaker 2: in a pond. So he is our finder. Joe, our finder. 371 00:22:21,280 --> 00:22:25,800 Speaker 2: Does not find a body, he calls in, I found something. 372 00:22:26,400 --> 00:22:30,359 Speaker 2: It probably is a body. Now, I talked to you 373 00:22:30,400 --> 00:22:33,400 Speaker 2: about this before we started, because I would think if 374 00:22:33,440 --> 00:22:36,040 Speaker 2: you find a body, you call you. I found a body, 375 00:22:36,840 --> 00:22:39,480 Speaker 2: but this part is human remains? Am I right in? 376 00:22:39,520 --> 00:22:42,480 Speaker 2: Assuming when they say we found human remains, that it's 377 00:22:42,520 --> 00:22:43,800 Speaker 2: not a complete body. 378 00:22:45,119 --> 00:22:47,119 Speaker 1: Well, I think that that's a good way to put it, 379 00:22:48,000 --> 00:22:53,080 Speaker 1: because it can be obviously, let's just say particulated, So 380 00:22:53,160 --> 00:22:56,760 Speaker 1: you might have evidence of human remains that you know, 381 00:22:56,800 --> 00:22:59,800 Speaker 1: you might just be standing there on a muddy bank 382 00:22:59,840 --> 00:23:02,760 Speaker 1: of some pond down the south, holding a foot in 383 00:23:02,760 --> 00:23:05,520 Speaker 1: your hand. That's detachment. The rest of the body, well, 384 00:23:05,560 --> 00:23:08,800 Speaker 1: that's an element of human remains. It's not a body. 385 00:23:09,560 --> 00:23:12,600 Speaker 1: So you're right to draw that distinction. And it's kind 386 00:23:12,600 --> 00:23:14,640 Speaker 1: of catch all phrase. I think now you can say 387 00:23:14,720 --> 00:23:18,840 Speaker 1: human remains, and I think most people are outside of 388 00:23:18,880 --> 00:23:23,520 Speaker 1: you and I. Most people are not going to think dismembered. 389 00:23:23,520 --> 00:23:26,280 Speaker 1: They're going to think a wholly intact body. But the 390 00:23:26,320 --> 00:23:29,119 Speaker 1: world that you and I inhabit, though, David, it seems 391 00:23:29,160 --> 00:23:32,239 Speaker 1: as though with greater frequency, and we even did an 392 00:23:32,320 --> 00:23:36,440 Speaker 1: entire presentation on this, both on the light and the 393 00:23:36,480 --> 00:23:39,960 Speaker 1: body backs as well as a crime con on just 394 00:23:40,000 --> 00:23:43,720 Speaker 1: the instances that we're seeing where people seem to be 395 00:23:44,440 --> 00:23:48,639 Speaker 1: the veil has been rent in two where they've crossed it. 396 00:23:48,720 --> 00:23:51,480 Speaker 1: When we see what other analogy they've crossed the rubicon 397 00:23:51,920 --> 00:23:54,840 Speaker 1: when it comes to what they'll do to a human body, 398 00:23:55,920 --> 00:23:58,920 Speaker 1: people are not as averse apparently as they once were 399 00:23:59,000 --> 00:24:02,000 Speaker 1: to ripping a box to shreds with whatever is at 400 00:24:02,000 --> 00:24:06,640 Speaker 1: their disposal. But going back, you know, to this gentleman, 401 00:24:07,680 --> 00:24:12,199 Speaker 1: I'm still troubled over the fact that his car is 402 00:24:12,240 --> 00:24:16,320 Speaker 1: still in the driveway and that there's no evidence that 403 00:24:16,359 --> 00:24:18,919 Speaker 1: he's left. And you know, look, I guess you know, 404 00:24:19,280 --> 00:24:23,639 Speaker 1: back in his practitioner days as a green bereat, it 405 00:24:23,680 --> 00:24:27,719 Speaker 1: would be nothing for him to you know, ruck, you know, 406 00:24:28,040 --> 00:24:33,160 Speaker 1: ten miles to walk into an area. Some guys continue 407 00:24:33,240 --> 00:24:35,119 Speaker 1: to ruck, believe it or not. There's a couple of 408 00:24:35,160 --> 00:24:37,080 Speaker 1: them that live around here. I think that they're both 409 00:24:37,119 --> 00:24:39,600 Speaker 1: attached to the RTC department. I see them rocking up 410 00:24:39,640 --> 00:24:40,959 Speaker 1: and down the road all the time with these big, 411 00:24:41,040 --> 00:24:44,680 Speaker 1: heavy packs, just trying to stay in shape. But why 412 00:24:44,680 --> 00:24:46,600 Speaker 1: are you trying to stay in shape if you're fifty 413 00:24:46,640 --> 00:24:50,439 Speaker 1: and you're retired. Now, it doesn't make sense that he 414 00:24:50,640 --> 00:24:54,840 Speaker 1: has exited the home, and everything that he would need, 415 00:24:55,000 --> 00:24:57,720 Speaker 1: I would think to really get by in the civilian 416 00:24:57,760 --> 00:25:01,640 Speaker 1: world is left behind and he is formed. He has 417 00:25:01,760 --> 00:25:06,920 Speaker 1: filed no notice with with the people at Methodist University, 418 00:25:07,040 --> 00:25:10,080 Speaker 1: something that I can and I'm super imposing my thoughts here, 419 00:25:10,160 --> 00:25:13,680 Speaker 1: So forgive me, indulge me something he's worked so hard for. 420 00:25:14,280 --> 00:25:17,159 Speaker 1: I mean, because that that, truly, Dave, would be a culmination. 421 00:25:17,440 --> 00:25:20,399 Speaker 1: You know, you you've spent all of his time, paying 422 00:25:20,400 --> 00:25:23,320 Speaker 1: your dues in the military, seeing bearing witness some of 423 00:25:23,359 --> 00:25:25,919 Speaker 1: the most horrible things that anybody could bear witness to. 424 00:25:27,040 --> 00:25:32,520 Speaker 1: And now the big payoff comes when you're accepted into 425 00:25:32,520 --> 00:25:35,840 Speaker 1: a program to work on a master's degree in medicine. 426 00:25:36,560 --> 00:25:38,480 Speaker 1: That will put you in a position to sit for 427 00:25:38,560 --> 00:25:41,600 Speaker 1: the boards for the for a pa and work anywhere 428 00:25:41,640 --> 00:26:00,399 Speaker 1: you want and you don't have bullets flying over your head. Okay, 429 00:26:00,440 --> 00:26:03,200 Speaker 1: so let me back up here and think about this 430 00:26:03,400 --> 00:26:08,480 Speaker 1: just for a moment. I've got a guy who has 431 00:26:09,480 --> 00:26:16,720 Speaker 1: apparently vaporized, nowhere to be found. You got cops looking 432 00:26:16,760 --> 00:26:22,000 Speaker 1: for him, his keys, his car, his phone is still 433 00:26:22,000 --> 00:26:26,359 Speaker 1: at the house. And then tell me, right am I 434 00:26:26,400 --> 00:26:30,800 Speaker 1: saying this? Right, Dave? Within three miles of his home, 435 00:26:32,480 --> 00:26:37,720 Speaker 1: A dismembered body is found in a pond by some 436 00:26:37,760 --> 00:26:40,120 Speaker 1: guy that's out checking property. Did I get that right? Yep? 437 00:26:40,320 --> 00:26:43,119 Speaker 2: Human remains, you know. And again we're going to the 438 00:26:43,440 --> 00:26:46,240 Speaker 2: back to basics here. Human remains found in a pond 439 00:26:46,680 --> 00:26:50,040 Speaker 2: and it's on private property, but it is about three 440 00:26:50,080 --> 00:26:55,119 Speaker 2: miles from where Clinton Bonnell lives. But when I was 441 00:26:55,160 --> 00:26:57,920 Speaker 2: looking at this, Joe, over the evidence and over the 442 00:26:57,920 --> 00:27:00,440 Speaker 2: search for its and you know, going to Virginia, North 443 00:27:00,480 --> 00:27:02,560 Speaker 2: Carolina and all the places they were searching. I was 444 00:27:02,560 --> 00:27:04,600 Speaker 2: looking at the search warrant in his house of what 445 00:27:04,680 --> 00:27:07,600 Speaker 2: they found there. But in all of that, they couldn't 446 00:27:07,600 --> 00:27:12,120 Speaker 2: find where he was. And when the remains are found, 447 00:27:13,040 --> 00:27:16,760 Speaker 2: they didn't immediately identify as Hey, we've got this missing 448 00:27:16,800 --> 00:27:19,680 Speaker 2: green Beret we've been looking for, which you know, everybody 449 00:27:19,680 --> 00:27:23,280 Speaker 2: there's got to know, right, And now you've got a 450 00:27:23,359 --> 00:27:26,879 Speaker 2: guy calling in saying he doesn't say, Hey, I think 451 00:27:26,920 --> 00:27:30,119 Speaker 2: I found the Green Beret. I got something here that 452 00:27:30,160 --> 00:27:33,480 Speaker 2: looks like human remains. What are you going to find 453 00:27:33,840 --> 00:27:39,040 Speaker 2: Joe in a pond that could be from the day 454 00:27:39,080 --> 00:27:42,200 Speaker 2: the man went missing? You know, I'm going to assume 455 00:27:42,600 --> 00:27:45,080 Speaker 2: that he wasn't tied up in a cave and tortured 456 00:27:45,119 --> 00:27:49,600 Speaker 2: and held here in the USA until he finally gave 457 00:27:49,680 --> 00:27:52,280 Speaker 2: up whatever secrets they thought he was holding, and then 458 00:27:52,400 --> 00:27:54,520 Speaker 2: they drowned him and pulled him apart. I'm not going 459 00:27:54,560 --> 00:27:57,600 Speaker 2: to assume that. I'm going to assume that he was 460 00:27:57,720 --> 00:28:03,280 Speaker 2: killed and then his remains were then tossed into a pond, 461 00:28:03,440 --> 00:28:08,320 Speaker 2: probably weighted down with something. But I'm wondering what you 462 00:28:08,320 --> 00:28:11,359 Speaker 2: would really be finding Joe, What kind of pieces in parts, 463 00:28:11,400 --> 00:28:13,959 Speaker 2: and are we going to deal with animals pulling him 464 00:28:14,000 --> 00:28:16,320 Speaker 2: apart and taking you know what, are we really going 465 00:28:16,440 --> 00:28:18,840 Speaker 2: to find? What's it going to look like when I 466 00:28:18,880 --> 00:28:20,920 Speaker 2: have human remains in a pond that could have been 467 00:28:20,920 --> 00:28:22,119 Speaker 2: there for three or four weeks. 468 00:28:22,600 --> 00:28:25,640 Speaker 1: Well, when they're particulated like this, and I'm listen, this 469 00:28:25,680 --> 00:28:29,560 Speaker 1: is this is happening in Cumberland County, North Carolina, which 470 00:28:29,600 --> 00:28:33,200 Speaker 1: is right adjacent to Fayetteful. And of course Fayetteful is 471 00:28:33,280 --> 00:28:38,200 Speaker 1: right adjacent to where Special Forces is. Okay, that's where 472 00:28:38,240 --> 00:28:42,960 Speaker 1: they train and other other elements obviously of the army 473 00:28:43,000 --> 00:28:50,040 Speaker 1: are there as well at Fort Bragg. And so they 474 00:28:50,080 --> 00:28:53,160 Speaker 1: didn't move too far away from where you know where 475 00:28:53,200 --> 00:28:57,120 Speaker 1: his his unit would have been based out of, perhaps 476 00:28:57,160 --> 00:28:59,240 Speaker 1: you know where he retired. And lots of times, guys, 477 00:28:59,240 --> 00:29:01,800 Speaker 1: when they're getting out military, they have to return back 478 00:29:01,800 --> 00:29:06,200 Speaker 1: to the location that they entered the military end and 479 00:29:05,240 --> 00:29:08,920 Speaker 1: they will actually retire them at that location. It doesn't 480 00:29:08,920 --> 00:29:13,480 Speaker 1: happen every time, but it does sometimes. Well, he's there, 481 00:29:14,560 --> 00:29:17,120 Speaker 1: and now you have him in this pond that's three 482 00:29:17,200 --> 00:29:20,239 Speaker 1: miles away. If it is in fact him, you do 483 00:29:20,360 --> 00:29:21,960 Speaker 1: know that you have a body. And so they have 484 00:29:22,040 --> 00:29:27,000 Speaker 1: an uphill climb relative to trying to get these remains 485 00:29:27,000 --> 00:29:33,920 Speaker 1: identified and if the body has been let's just say particulated, dismembered. 486 00:29:34,600 --> 00:29:39,320 Speaker 1: We're talking about probably a pond that's in the middle 487 00:29:39,400 --> 00:29:45,480 Speaker 1: of a pasture somewhere in the south. The bottom of 488 00:29:45,480 --> 00:29:49,520 Speaker 1: that pond is going to be red clay mud probably, 489 00:29:50,440 --> 00:29:54,000 Speaker 1: and not necessarily all elements of the body are going 490 00:29:54,080 --> 00:29:57,840 Speaker 1: to be floating. You might not necessarily see them, you know, 491 00:29:57,920 --> 00:30:00,640 Speaker 1: out there, because some of them will be on the 492 00:30:00,680 --> 00:30:03,480 Speaker 1: bottom and they could be buried in the mud. Do 493 00:30:03,520 --> 00:30:06,760 Speaker 1: you know what it takes in order to extract that 494 00:30:06,920 --> 00:30:11,040 Speaker 1: body from that environment. Well, if you have the ability, 495 00:30:11,040 --> 00:30:12,680 Speaker 1: and the thing has a dam, which I guess it 496 00:30:12,680 --> 00:30:16,280 Speaker 1: would be, you try to drain off the dam. Try 497 00:30:16,320 --> 00:30:20,240 Speaker 1: to drain it off. Because you find one piece of 498 00:30:20,240 --> 00:30:25,080 Speaker 1: the body, you don't know how many sections the body 499 00:30:25,080 --> 00:30:28,880 Speaker 1: has been placed into. So I've actually participated in events 500 00:30:28,920 --> 00:30:33,120 Speaker 1: where ponds have been drained. Some places you can't drain. 501 00:30:33,560 --> 00:30:36,560 Speaker 1: You know, you're down in the Intercostal Waterway or something 502 00:30:36,600 --> 00:30:39,080 Speaker 1: like that, down in South Louisiana and Florida. You're not 503 00:30:39,120 --> 00:30:42,320 Speaker 1: going to drain that. You know, you're essentially coming along 504 00:30:42,360 --> 00:30:45,000 Speaker 1: the bottom with your hands, you know, looking for things 505 00:30:45,200 --> 00:30:47,480 Speaker 1: and hoping there's not going to be a gator in there, 506 00:30:47,640 --> 00:30:50,959 Speaker 1: something else that's going to hurt you. I can't imagine 507 00:30:50,960 --> 00:30:53,160 Speaker 1: anybody wanting to go into the water with an alligator 508 00:30:53,160 --> 00:30:57,160 Speaker 1: nearby them, but there commonly should not be those kind 509 00:30:57,200 --> 00:31:00,160 Speaker 1: of predators in faithful North Carolina. There might be some 510 00:31:00,320 --> 00:31:03,959 Speaker 1: nearer the coast. But what I'm saying is is that 511 00:31:04,800 --> 00:31:09,400 Speaker 1: the body would be in an advanced state of decomposition 512 00:31:09,560 --> 00:31:12,920 Speaker 1: already in the muck and the mire of this little pond, 513 00:31:12,920 --> 00:31:15,600 Speaker 1: and somebody's going to have to go out there and 514 00:31:15,720 --> 00:31:18,640 Speaker 1: feel along the bottom of the thing unless they drain 515 00:31:18,720 --> 00:31:21,560 Speaker 1: the thing all the way out, and hoping that you'll 516 00:31:21,560 --> 00:31:23,960 Speaker 1: be able to get to every single element. Because he's 517 00:31:24,080 --> 00:31:29,880 Speaker 1: here's the problem, Dave. If you have a body that 518 00:31:29,920 --> 00:31:34,400 Speaker 1: has been dismembered, it's been broken down into a variety 519 00:31:34,400 --> 00:31:38,160 Speaker 1: of elements. Could be You could have the arm, for instance, 520 00:31:38,680 --> 00:31:41,280 Speaker 1: it's cut away at the shoulder. It's also cut away 521 00:31:41,280 --> 00:31:44,160 Speaker 1: at the elbow, and the hand is removed at the wrist. 522 00:31:44,240 --> 00:31:47,400 Speaker 1: So that's three elements just by itself with the arm. Okay, 523 00:31:48,040 --> 00:31:51,880 Speaker 1: if somebody takes their time and how they treat the torso. 524 00:31:52,040 --> 00:31:54,480 Speaker 1: Well they remove the head from the torso, did they 525 00:31:54,520 --> 00:31:59,600 Speaker 1: split the torso into multiple pieces? Because you know, the 526 00:31:59,640 --> 00:32:02,280 Speaker 1: bowel get really messy when you go to try to 527 00:32:02,640 --> 00:32:05,000 Speaker 1: dispose of them. If you saw a body in half, 528 00:32:05,520 --> 00:32:08,280 Speaker 1: be prepared for a huge mess. How did they quarter 529 00:32:08,400 --> 00:32:12,000 Speaker 1: the body up? So for every bit of the body, 530 00:32:12,080 --> 00:32:14,880 Speaker 1: you don't know what happened. So this assumption is is 531 00:32:14,920 --> 00:32:17,520 Speaker 1: it's broken into the smallest part as possible. Well, Dave, 532 00:32:17,720 --> 00:32:21,720 Speaker 1: from an evidentary standpoint, the smallest part possible can hold 533 00:32:21,760 --> 00:32:26,200 Speaker 1: the key to this because you don't know what anatomical 534 00:32:26,200 --> 00:32:28,320 Speaker 1: element is going to give you an idea as to 535 00:32:28,360 --> 00:32:31,200 Speaker 1: what brought about the cause of death in a case 536 00:32:31,280 --> 00:32:34,640 Speaker 1: like this, So it's painstaking to say the least. And 537 00:32:34,720 --> 00:32:38,280 Speaker 1: then on top of that, you've got advanced decomposition and 538 00:32:38,320 --> 00:32:41,200 Speaker 1: you're not going to person's probably not gonna have a 539 00:32:41,200 --> 00:32:43,600 Speaker 1: wallet in their back pocket. You might if you can 540 00:32:43,640 --> 00:32:49,000 Speaker 1: find a hand, you might could do prints, but that's 541 00:32:49,200 --> 00:32:52,800 Speaker 1: holding out hope that the that the finger pads are 542 00:32:52,880 --> 00:32:55,560 Speaker 1: not degraded to the point where they're just a mushy 543 00:32:55,640 --> 00:32:57,560 Speaker 1: mess and you're going to have to take them, dry 544 00:32:57,600 --> 00:33:01,920 Speaker 1: them out, inject tissue builder into the ads the fingers 545 00:33:02,280 --> 00:33:04,640 Speaker 1: and have that build up over time and then roll 546 00:33:04,640 --> 00:33:07,640 Speaker 1: a print. That is, even if you can find the hands, 547 00:33:07,400 --> 00:33:10,520 Speaker 1: it's it's a heck of a mess for anybody for 548 00:33:10,560 --> 00:33:12,760 Speaker 1: an investigative team to be in. And boy, they were 549 00:33:12,840 --> 00:33:14,120 Speaker 1: right in the middle of it here. 550 00:33:14,560 --> 00:33:19,320 Speaker 2: So ultimately you've got to you mentioned you got a mess. 551 00:33:20,320 --> 00:33:23,760 Speaker 2: And I have to wonder what did they find investigators 552 00:33:23,760 --> 00:33:27,840 Speaker 2: inside the home that they could tie into with the 553 00:33:27,880 --> 00:33:32,120 Speaker 2: remains of the body, because when when you find remains 554 00:33:32,160 --> 00:33:35,360 Speaker 2: like this show, and do you show up on the 555 00:33:35,400 --> 00:33:37,840 Speaker 2: scene and get a net. I mean you pull out 556 00:33:37,880 --> 00:33:40,640 Speaker 2: the biggest parts, I'm guessing, but there's going to be 557 00:33:40,640 --> 00:33:42,720 Speaker 2: smaller parts. I mean, the body's going to start falling 558 00:33:42,760 --> 00:33:45,200 Speaker 2: apart at some point, right, and you've got to get 559 00:33:45,200 --> 00:33:48,280 Speaker 2: everything out of this pond that you can find. Do 560 00:33:48,320 --> 00:33:50,400 Speaker 2: you really get a net and go skimming like I 561 00:33:50,440 --> 00:33:52,520 Speaker 2: do in my pool? And I'm not trying to be gross, 562 00:33:52,560 --> 00:33:53,160 Speaker 2: I'm just curious. 563 00:33:53,280 --> 00:33:59,920 Speaker 1: No, no, no, no no. I I've literally stripped down to my 564 00:34:00,080 --> 00:34:07,120 Speaker 1: skivvies and walked out into a pond to recover bodies. 565 00:34:07,560 --> 00:34:12,080 Speaker 1: I'm literally right there in the water with the body 566 00:34:14,080 --> 00:34:17,600 Speaker 1: and taking the elements out one by one I remember, 567 00:34:17,840 --> 00:34:20,200 Speaker 1: and this was really dangerous and stupid on my part. 568 00:34:20,239 --> 00:34:22,360 Speaker 1: I had a guy that had been diagnosed with AIDS 569 00:34:23,080 --> 00:34:29,200 Speaker 1: and he walked out into a pond in Atlanta on 570 00:34:29,239 --> 00:34:30,880 Speaker 1: a golf course. A matter of fact, it was Bobby 571 00:34:30,920 --> 00:34:35,960 Speaker 1: Jones golf course, which is you know, Bobby Jones, famous golfer. 572 00:34:36,040 --> 00:34:37,640 Speaker 1: This course is named after him. I think it was 573 00:34:37,680 --> 00:34:41,440 Speaker 1: Bobby Jones' golf course. And he shot himself in the head. Well, 574 00:34:41,480 --> 00:34:44,759 Speaker 1: he was found floating out there by the workers. Well, 575 00:34:45,600 --> 00:34:49,880 Speaker 1: it fell to me to go get him, and he 576 00:34:49,920 --> 00:34:53,080 Speaker 1: had threatened to take his life. And I went out there, Dave, 577 00:34:53,239 --> 00:34:56,720 Speaker 1: and I remember, first off, it's on a golf course. 578 00:34:56,719 --> 00:35:00,640 Speaker 1: So I'm barefoot down to my skivvies. I'm walking out there, 579 00:35:00,800 --> 00:35:05,160 Speaker 1: and I'm walking atop of golf balls. There's golf balls 580 00:35:05,239 --> 00:35:08,799 Speaker 1: all in the water, you know. And I finally make 581 00:35:08,880 --> 00:35:11,719 Speaker 1: my way out to him to bring him in, and 582 00:35:11,760 --> 00:35:14,200 Speaker 1: I'm thinking he's got a gunshot wound in the head. 583 00:35:14,239 --> 00:35:16,840 Speaker 1: I'm looking at him. Here we are, you know, it 584 00:35:16,880 --> 00:35:20,360 Speaker 1: looks like some after death baptism out there in the 585 00:35:20,360 --> 00:35:22,120 Speaker 1: middle of this thing. Here I am with a body, 586 00:35:22,200 --> 00:35:25,279 Speaker 1: he's floating out there. I've got gloves. I don't know 587 00:35:25,280 --> 00:35:29,680 Speaker 1: why I'm wearing gloves and I'm manipulating the body. I 588 00:35:29,719 --> 00:35:31,600 Speaker 1: look at his head and he's got a gunshot wound, 589 00:35:32,400 --> 00:35:38,360 Speaker 1: and I'm thinking, I can't exit this pond with this 590 00:35:38,520 --> 00:35:42,960 Speaker 1: body without recovering the weapon, because I knew that if 591 00:35:43,000 --> 00:35:47,560 Speaker 1: I moved the body that I would lose sight or 592 00:35:47,719 --> 00:35:51,080 Speaker 1: location of the weapon. So guess what I did. I 593 00:35:51,120 --> 00:35:55,000 Speaker 1: was barefooted, and I started feeling along the bottom of 594 00:35:55,000 --> 00:35:59,120 Speaker 1: the pond with my toes, and I remember I grasp 595 00:35:59,360 --> 00:36:03,160 Speaker 1: the barrel between my big toe and the second toe 596 00:36:04,080 --> 00:36:06,840 Speaker 1: and drew it upwards and was able to grab the 597 00:36:06,880 --> 00:36:08,960 Speaker 1: pistol handle and take it out as a thirty eight 598 00:36:09,000 --> 00:36:12,160 Speaker 1: caliber revolver that had, you know, just sunk to the 599 00:36:12,160 --> 00:36:15,600 Speaker 1: bottom adjacent to the body. So the thing about it is, 600 00:36:15,600 --> 00:36:18,040 Speaker 1: when you're working cases like this, you have to do 601 00:36:18,080 --> 00:36:20,440 Speaker 1: what you have to do. And there's been other cases 602 00:36:20,480 --> 00:36:22,719 Speaker 1: where I've had bodies that have been dismembered and thrown 603 00:36:22,760 --> 00:36:26,839 Speaker 1: off of bridges and have had to go into the water. 604 00:36:26,920 --> 00:36:29,960 Speaker 1: Didn't search with my feet. And this is before the 605 00:36:30,000 --> 00:36:33,120 Speaker 1: popularity of dive teams really too, you know, and some 606 00:36:33,160 --> 00:36:35,359 Speaker 1: things are just lost. Now we have dive teams, they'll 607 00:36:35,360 --> 00:36:37,400 Speaker 1: go out and find a lot of stuff. But I 608 00:36:37,400 --> 00:36:39,840 Speaker 1: don't know if they utilized a dive team in this case, 609 00:36:40,600 --> 00:36:44,920 Speaker 1: or if if you just had investigators or team members 610 00:36:44,960 --> 00:36:47,880 Speaker 1: that went out there and collected the remains. Because you know, 611 00:36:47,920 --> 00:36:49,839 Speaker 1: you're sitting, you're you know, they always make a big 612 00:36:49,880 --> 00:36:53,760 Speaker 1: deal out of us having to create a command center 613 00:36:53,920 --> 00:36:55,879 Speaker 1: at one of these scenes when you have something like that, 614 00:36:55,920 --> 00:36:58,480 Speaker 1: and what it is is an area where they can 615 00:36:58,520 --> 00:37:01,439 Speaker 1: bring in a vehicle and they kind of have this 616 00:37:01,920 --> 00:37:05,040 Speaker 1: radio set up and everything else, and you're commanding the area. 617 00:37:05,160 --> 00:37:07,520 Speaker 1: You're setting up what everybody's job is going to do? 618 00:37:07,840 --> 00:37:10,719 Speaker 1: They think too much to command here. It's like, all right, guys, 619 00:37:10,719 --> 00:37:11,840 Speaker 1: we've got to get in the water and get this 620 00:37:11,920 --> 00:37:13,680 Speaker 1: body out of here, and we have to do it 621 00:37:13,960 --> 00:37:15,799 Speaker 1: the most efficient way we can. And we also have 622 00:37:15,840 --> 00:37:17,760 Speaker 1: to document a long way because this is a crime 623 00:37:17,760 --> 00:37:21,320 Speaker 1: scene day. That's the other thing about this. You're taking 624 00:37:21,360 --> 00:37:25,200 Speaker 1: a body and you're dismembering it, perhaps, and you're tossing 625 00:37:25,200 --> 00:37:29,080 Speaker 1: it out into the pond. Well, each element of the 626 00:37:29,120 --> 00:37:31,680 Speaker 1: body and anything else associated with that body or the 627 00:37:31,760 --> 00:37:34,600 Speaker 1: crime is a piece of evidence. It's just that it's 628 00:37:34,719 --> 00:37:38,080 Speaker 1: a lot of it is underwater. Now how are you 629 00:37:38,080 --> 00:37:39,799 Speaker 1: going to handle How are you going to handle that? 630 00:37:40,360 --> 00:37:42,640 Speaker 1: And assuming that this was in the middle of a pasture, 631 00:37:42,880 --> 00:37:44,719 Speaker 1: you know it's going to be muddy. You and I 632 00:37:44,800 --> 00:37:47,920 Speaker 1: have grown up and seen these ponds that you can 633 00:37:48,000 --> 00:37:51,080 Speaker 1: drive past on the road through any of these you know, 634 00:37:51,400 --> 00:37:54,239 Speaker 1: country hamlets, and you can't see your hand in front 635 00:37:54,239 --> 00:37:56,040 Speaker 1: of your face if you're in the in the water 636 00:37:56,080 --> 00:37:59,960 Speaker 1: and these things. So it's a very difficult and again 637 00:38:00,040 --> 00:38:02,239 Speaker 1: all steer environment to have to work in. Dave. 638 00:38:02,320 --> 00:38:06,080 Speaker 2: All right, So now you've got the body and or remains, 639 00:38:06,080 --> 00:38:11,000 Speaker 2: you have human remains, you get them out? Now they done. 640 00:38:11,080 --> 00:38:14,440 Speaker 2: They had served search warrants on at the house, and 641 00:38:14,960 --> 00:38:19,840 Speaker 2: they had done a digital forensic look at camera, at phones, cameras, 642 00:38:19,880 --> 00:38:22,600 Speaker 2: things like that, and they were able to determine a 643 00:38:22,680 --> 00:38:26,520 Speaker 2: number of different things from the digital timeline that was 644 00:38:26,560 --> 00:38:31,520 Speaker 2: built using the cell phone data and they were reframing 645 00:38:31,560 --> 00:38:34,400 Speaker 2: all of that in as they were waiting on the 646 00:38:34,520 --> 00:38:37,840 Speaker 2: DNA results to come back from the human body the 647 00:38:38,200 --> 00:38:42,200 Speaker 2: human remains that they found. So in that regard of 648 00:38:42,239 --> 00:38:46,360 Speaker 2: finding the DNA, how long would it take from the 649 00:38:46,400 --> 00:38:50,480 Speaker 2: time you find the remains until you can get DNA 650 00:38:50,600 --> 00:38:51,520 Speaker 2: results back. 651 00:38:53,719 --> 00:38:55,600 Speaker 1: Going to I'm going to say something here that's a 652 00:38:55,600 --> 00:39:00,359 Speaker 1: big clue to the outcome of this. And it's not 653 00:39:00,440 --> 00:39:06,120 Speaker 1: like the DNA was sent out to our friends at AUTHORM. Okay, 654 00:39:06,880 --> 00:39:11,120 Speaker 1: the DNA here, Dave. This gives you an idea where 655 00:39:11,120 --> 00:39:14,960 Speaker 1: their mind is, where the mind of the investigators are. 656 00:39:15,560 --> 00:39:20,560 Speaker 1: They sent this DNA sample to the Armed Forces Medical 657 00:39:20,560 --> 00:39:23,560 Speaker 1: Examiner's Office. Well, why in the world would they do this? 658 00:39:24,400 --> 00:39:27,520 Speaker 1: Because you got an unknown body. They had a level 659 00:39:27,560 --> 00:39:32,839 Speaker 1: of suspicion here and it's still unclear what that clue was. 660 00:39:33,120 --> 00:39:37,440 Speaker 1: Maybe it was a tattoo, maybe the face was still recognizable. 661 00:39:38,680 --> 00:39:41,040 Speaker 1: They might have had an image that they could have said, yep, 662 00:39:41,160 --> 00:39:43,719 Speaker 1: kind of looks like him. We know the quickest way 663 00:39:43,719 --> 00:39:45,440 Speaker 1: to do this. We're going to reach out to our 664 00:39:45,480 --> 00:39:49,200 Speaker 1: partners with FED'S and you know, talk to the folks 665 00:39:49,200 --> 00:39:53,080 Speaker 1: at Armed Forces Medical Examiner's Office, because you know every 666 00:39:53,120 --> 00:39:57,520 Speaker 1: trooper that that you know, deployees now, they do a 667 00:39:57,600 --> 00:40:02,200 Speaker 1: DNA swab when he's individual. So you're talking about a 668 00:40:02,320 --> 00:40:06,840 Speaker 1: Welcolm coastal swab that they would have on file there. 669 00:40:07,000 --> 00:40:11,719 Speaker 1: So you collect DNA from the remains that you have 670 00:40:12,000 --> 00:40:15,319 Speaker 1: from where it is that they collected those remains, and 671 00:40:15,400 --> 00:40:17,759 Speaker 1: you set up a profile on that and you have 672 00:40:18,280 --> 00:40:22,640 Speaker 1: the Armed Forces Medical Examiner's Office compare it and Dave, 673 00:40:22,680 --> 00:40:24,280 Speaker 1: I'll be dog gone. They didn't get a hit. 674 00:40:24,160 --> 00:40:28,480 Speaker 2: Brother, and it was very quick, about four weeks between 675 00:40:28,520 --> 00:40:32,280 Speaker 2: the time you had the from a timeline standpoint, January 676 00:40:32,360 --> 00:40:35,760 Speaker 2: twenty eighth, he doesn't show up for class. They search, 677 00:40:36,480 --> 00:40:39,720 Speaker 2: wife says, I don't know where he is. They find 678 00:40:39,840 --> 00:40:42,840 Speaker 2: on February twenty fifth, the human remains in the pond. 679 00:40:43,520 --> 00:40:49,400 Speaker 2: March twenty eighth, remains identified as the missing Green Beret. Now, 680 00:40:50,040 --> 00:40:52,759 Speaker 2: there were some things found inside the home that the 681 00:40:52,800 --> 00:40:55,160 Speaker 2: police did not let on, did not let that out 682 00:40:55,200 --> 00:40:57,719 Speaker 2: for the public until all of this came about when 683 00:40:57,760 --> 00:41:02,080 Speaker 2: they got the positive hit. You you know, again, Gollie 684 00:41:02,120 --> 00:41:06,160 Speaker 2: g Wisby, we have a Green Beret missing, and we've 685 00:41:06,160 --> 00:41:10,719 Speaker 2: got human remains three miles from his house, and we 686 00:41:10,800 --> 00:41:15,400 Speaker 2: know what we're looking at. So go ahead and break 687 00:41:15,440 --> 00:41:18,359 Speaker 2: it down as to what they found inside that house, Joe. 688 00:41:18,480 --> 00:41:19,880 Speaker 2: And by the way, I will tell you that the 689 00:41:20,480 --> 00:41:24,520 Speaker 2: other evidence that came about was digital with regard to 690 00:41:24,560 --> 00:41:31,759 Speaker 2: putting Shanna Cloud right there at the pond, Joe right 691 00:41:31,800 --> 00:41:34,440 Speaker 2: there at about the time they expected those human remains 692 00:41:34,520 --> 00:41:38,239 Speaker 2: got in that pond. They've got well a map, they 693 00:41:38,239 --> 00:41:41,719 Speaker 2: have a digital fingerprint now of where you were and 694 00:41:41,920 --> 00:41:45,960 Speaker 2: lo and behold, hmmm, Shanna, you didn't know where your 695 00:41:46,040 --> 00:41:49,439 Speaker 2: husband was January twenty eighth, but we got you over 696 00:41:49,480 --> 00:41:50,960 Speaker 2: here where his body was found. 697 00:41:52,400 --> 00:41:55,920 Speaker 1: Yeah. You couple that data with what they found inside 698 00:41:55,960 --> 00:41:58,560 Speaker 1: that house and just think about this and remember how 699 00:41:58,640 --> 00:42:02,399 Speaker 1: it had eluded a few seconds ago to uh they 700 00:42:02,440 --> 00:42:06,000 Speaker 1: had some indicator that this might be him. Well, they 701 00:42:06,040 --> 00:42:09,640 Speaker 1: when they serve those warrants, and I don't know, this 702 00:42:09,760 --> 00:42:14,680 Speaker 1: is really rich. I got to tell you. When they 703 00:42:14,719 --> 00:42:21,360 Speaker 1: serve those warrants, they went into the house and this 704 00:42:21,520 --> 00:42:28,160 Speaker 1: former Green Beret by now his laptop and his book 705 00:42:28,239 --> 00:42:33,360 Speaker 1: back that you know he uses to on his journey 706 00:42:33,360 --> 00:42:36,000 Speaker 1: to become a PA. They they got bullet holes on them. 707 00:42:37,400 --> 00:42:40,399 Speaker 1: How do you explain that? Well, you know, because I've 708 00:42:40,400 --> 00:42:43,120 Speaker 1: thought about you know, you would like to think that 709 00:42:43,360 --> 00:42:45,920 Speaker 1: somebody that works in special operations has got eyes in 710 00:42:45,960 --> 00:42:49,000 Speaker 1: the back of their head. Okay, and yeah, I guess 711 00:42:49,000 --> 00:42:52,240 Speaker 1: they do. But if you're not in theater any longer, 712 00:42:52,280 --> 00:42:56,120 Speaker 1: and you're not working at that at that pace that 713 00:42:56,160 --> 00:43:02,080 Speaker 1: they work at, you I'm sure that he was on alert. 714 00:43:02,160 --> 00:43:04,960 Speaker 1: He had a situational awareness all the time that is 715 00:43:05,200 --> 00:43:07,839 Speaker 1: far exceeds anything that you or and I would would have. 716 00:43:07,920 --> 00:43:12,359 Speaker 1: He would notice little things that but still in order 717 00:43:12,400 --> 00:43:15,239 Speaker 1: to you know, use a term that they would use 718 00:43:15,280 --> 00:43:17,480 Speaker 1: in an old Western movie to get the drop on 719 00:43:17,520 --> 00:43:22,879 Speaker 1: this guy, when would he be the most defenseless. Well, 720 00:43:23,000 --> 00:43:27,640 Speaker 1: let's say he's getting ready to go to school, got 721 00:43:27,680 --> 00:43:31,160 Speaker 1: my book back on, got my book back on, mom, 722 00:43:32,160 --> 00:43:37,160 Speaker 1: And all of a sudden it's perforated about gunshots. Did 723 00:43:37,160 --> 00:43:40,880 Speaker 1: you shoot him from the rear? You know, was he 724 00:43:40,960 --> 00:43:44,000 Speaker 1: holding his laptop as he was shot or was he 725 00:43:44,040 --> 00:43:45,880 Speaker 1: shot on the other side of his laptop and he 726 00:43:45,920 --> 00:43:50,280 Speaker 1: tried to get covered with his book back. They haven't 727 00:43:50,320 --> 00:43:53,160 Speaker 1: answered that question at We do know that the body 728 00:43:53,239 --> 00:43:58,800 Speaker 1: that they recovered actually had multiple gunshot ones to the body. 729 00:43:59,400 --> 00:44:04,239 Speaker 1: But here's the thing, Dave, Okay, now you've killed your 730 00:44:04,280 --> 00:44:12,600 Speaker 1: former Green Beret husband allegedly. What's gonna do now? Oh, 731 00:44:12,640 --> 00:44:15,520 Speaker 1: I know what I'll do. I'll go get skill saw 732 00:44:15,800 --> 00:44:20,200 Speaker 1: or get you know, the carpenter saw or the mall 733 00:44:20,520 --> 00:44:22,879 Speaker 1: or you know, whatever it is to acts whatever I'm 734 00:44:22,880 --> 00:44:27,640 Speaker 1: going to use, and I'm gonna, you know, break up 735 00:44:27,760 --> 00:44:30,279 Speaker 1: my husband's body. Well, where are you going to do 736 00:44:30,320 --> 00:44:34,120 Speaker 1: that without leaving a mess? My My suspicion is is 737 00:44:34,160 --> 00:44:36,759 Speaker 1: that they're gonna, if they haven't already, they're gonna tear 738 00:44:36,800 --> 00:44:39,279 Speaker 1: this place from stem to stern. And there's gonna be 739 00:44:39,400 --> 00:44:44,640 Speaker 1: a lot of Blue Star agent that you used in 740 00:44:44,719 --> 00:44:49,800 Speaker 1: this house to you know, try to find any evidence 741 00:44:49,800 --> 00:44:53,359 Speaker 1: of blood, because there's gonna be a copious amount of blood, 742 00:44:54,360 --> 00:44:57,160 Speaker 1: you know, and not just from the gunshot ones, but 743 00:44:57,200 --> 00:45:00,080 Speaker 1: from the dismemberment as well. So you'll have these deposition 744 00:45:00,239 --> 00:45:02,000 Speaker 1: that are lying about that maybe she went to some 745 00:45:02,040 --> 00:45:05,080 Speaker 1: effort clean Here's another thing too that I was kind 746 00:45:05,080 --> 00:45:13,760 Speaker 1: of fascinating by. They have in fact charged her, Missus Cloud. 747 00:45:14,320 --> 00:45:18,920 Speaker 1: They have charged her in this case, David, She's a nurse. 748 00:45:20,040 --> 00:45:22,759 Speaker 1: She's not necessarily going to have the same aversion to 749 00:45:23,560 --> 00:45:28,000 Speaker 1: blood and no sort of things that maybe an everyday 750 00:45:28,000 --> 00:45:29,799 Speaker 1: civilian might. What do you think about that? 751 00:45:30,520 --> 00:45:33,480 Speaker 2: I actually made a note to ask you about this 752 00:45:33,600 --> 00:45:36,720 Speaker 2: because when I saw the charges agains Shannon Cloud first 753 00:45:36,760 --> 00:45:40,600 Speaker 2: Green murder, kind of expected that, you know. But she 754 00:45:40,680 --> 00:45:43,759 Speaker 2: was also charged with concealment of death in this laying 755 00:45:43,840 --> 00:45:48,920 Speaker 2: of Clinton Bonnell, and the concealment charge is because she 756 00:45:49,160 --> 00:45:52,800 Speaker 2: failed to notify law enforcement of his death while knowing 757 00:45:52,920 --> 00:45:55,640 Speaker 2: or having reason to know his death was not due 758 00:45:55,680 --> 00:45:56,760 Speaker 2: to natural causes. 759 00:45:57,719 --> 00:46:02,120 Speaker 1: Wow, that's a mouthful. Yeah, that's a mouthful. And again 760 00:46:02,239 --> 00:46:05,200 Speaker 1: that that gives her I don't know if that would 761 00:46:05,320 --> 00:46:08,120 Speaker 1: qualify as you know, there's that old term that they 762 00:46:08,200 --> 00:46:11,600 Speaker 1: use legally, ease, the malice of forethought. You know, like 763 00:46:11,719 --> 00:46:16,239 Speaker 1: you're you have an awareness of something, and so they 764 00:46:16,320 --> 00:46:20,239 Speaker 1: know enough about her and the activities and everything that 765 00:46:20,280 --> 00:46:23,320 Speaker 1: we don't have full knowledge of right now to charge 766 00:46:23,360 --> 00:46:26,040 Speaker 1: her with this that she had an awareness. What they're 767 00:46:26,080 --> 00:46:28,200 Speaker 1: saying is well, first off, they charged it was first 768 00:46:28,200 --> 00:46:32,160 Speaker 1: degree and first degree is generally in most states is 769 00:46:32,280 --> 00:46:36,360 Speaker 1: capital homicide. So that's at the top end. Many times 770 00:46:36,360 --> 00:46:41,200 Speaker 1: there's an element of certainly malice, but there's also an 771 00:46:41,320 --> 00:46:49,920 Speaker 1: element of planning that goes into this. She's attempting or 772 00:46:50,040 --> 00:46:54,080 Speaker 1: has attempt attempted to conceal in the wake of this, 773 00:46:54,640 --> 00:46:58,400 Speaker 1: and they know that she has knowledge that this has occurred. 774 00:46:59,120 --> 00:47:05,919 Speaker 2: So with given that meditation be formed in the blink 775 00:47:05,960 --> 00:47:06,879 Speaker 2: of an eye. 776 00:47:07,440 --> 00:47:10,640 Speaker 1: I think Nancy says twinkling, doesn't she she's able with it. 777 00:47:11,440 --> 00:47:14,440 Speaker 1: She's more King James with it, so in a twinkling 778 00:47:14,480 --> 00:47:20,720 Speaker 1: of an eye, and so yeah, the with with that said, uh, 779 00:47:20,840 --> 00:47:26,040 Speaker 1: you've got this former traveling nurse to keep referring to 780 00:47:26,080 --> 00:47:32,200 Speaker 1: her as former traveling nurse that has allegedly executed her 781 00:47:32,280 --> 00:47:38,439 Speaker 1: husband and taken him apart piece by piece. I think 782 00:47:38,640 --> 00:47:40,319 Speaker 1: one of my thoughts was I was on the air 783 00:47:40,360 --> 00:47:42,799 Speaker 1: would show the other day and they were talking about 784 00:47:42,840 --> 00:47:45,160 Speaker 1: I was listening to them talk about I think I 785 00:47:45,160 --> 00:47:47,960 Speaker 1: was on Court TV, uh, listening to them talk about 786 00:47:48,080 --> 00:47:51,200 Speaker 1: this case before I came on to do my segment, 787 00:47:51,760 --> 00:47:53,959 Speaker 1: and one of the attorneys says, well, I don't see 788 00:47:54,000 --> 00:47:56,600 Speaker 1: how in the world. I don't see how in the 789 00:47:56,640 --> 00:47:59,040 Speaker 1: world a woman could pull this off. And I'm thinking, 790 00:47:59,160 --> 00:48:02,200 Speaker 1: have you lost your of course a woman could pull 791 00:48:02,280 --> 00:48:05,400 Speaker 1: this off. You sneak up on him, you have a handgun. 792 00:48:06,200 --> 00:48:07,319 Speaker 1: You know what was it. 793 00:48:09,760 --> 00:48:12,440 Speaker 2: The boat bag in the laptop? I mean, yeah, of course. 794 00:48:14,560 --> 00:48:18,520 Speaker 1: Off. Yeah, you shoot him and then you particulate the body. 795 00:48:19,360 --> 00:48:21,879 Speaker 1: Makes a body a lot more manageable. And oh, by 796 00:48:21,920 --> 00:48:25,520 Speaker 1: the way, I've been driving past this place for a 797 00:48:25,600 --> 00:48:29,680 Speaker 1: number of years now, I've seen it. Wouldn't that be 798 00:48:29,719 --> 00:48:35,080 Speaker 1: a great spot to dump a body? Well, it's certainly 799 00:48:35,120 --> 00:48:41,400 Speaker 1: not Arlington, which this fellow, because of his service to 800 00:48:41,440 --> 00:48:46,560 Speaker 1: our country, may have deserved to have been in. But instead, 801 00:48:47,840 --> 00:48:50,800 Speaker 1: the person that, at least at one time in his life, 802 00:48:50,840 --> 00:48:55,680 Speaker 1: that he loved the most has now been charged with 803 00:48:55,800 --> 00:49:00,680 Speaker 1: his homicide. We'll see how this turns out. There's going 804 00:49:00,760 --> 00:49:02,960 Speaker 1: to be more to come. I can tell you this, 805 00:49:04,560 --> 00:49:07,200 Speaker 1: and I'd like to know what her motivation was for. 806 00:49:07,280 --> 00:49:14,240 Speaker 1: It was anger, jealousy, to have something to do with money, 807 00:49:15,040 --> 00:49:19,399 Speaker 1: or was it that they were living separate lives. We'll 808 00:49:19,400 --> 00:49:23,920 Speaker 1: find out and i'll let you know more. I'm Joseph 809 00:49:23,920 --> 00:49:27,080 Speaker 1: Scott Morgan and this is Bodybacks