WEBVTT - Searching for climate solutions in the Amazon 0:00:00.320 --> 0:00:04.520 Welcome to zero. I am Akshatrati. Today were leaders at 0:00:04.559 --> 0:00:18.480 the gateway to the mighty Amazon River. It's November eleventh, 0:00:18.520 --> 0:00:22.160 and the United Nations Climate Summit COP thirty has officially 0:00:22.400 --> 0:00:26.599 begun here in Brazil. It's happening in Berlen, a port 0:00:26.720 --> 0:00:28.960 city of about two million people at the mouth of 0:00:29.000 --> 0:00:33.080 the Amazon River. The negotiations started with a fight about 0:00:33.080 --> 0:00:37.040 what to put on the agenda, and that's not unexpected. 0:00:37.400 --> 0:00:39.800 It often happens at the start of a COP meeting, 0:00:40.400 --> 0:00:43.360 but it is certainly a rockier start than the Brazilian 0:00:43.400 --> 0:00:47.080 hosts of COP thirty would have wanted. Later on in 0:00:47.080 --> 0:00:51.280 today's episode, I'm speaking with an experienced climate diplomat, Rachel Kite, 0:00:51.479 --> 0:00:54.920 about the outcomes she's looking for here in Brazil and 0:00:54.960 --> 0:00:58.400 who will fill the void left behind by the US. 0:00:58.960 --> 0:01:00.880 But first, I want to give you a sense of 0:01:00.920 --> 0:01:03.600 what it's like to be at a climate summit near 0:01:03.680 --> 0:01:06.840 the Amazon Forest and our reactions to the world leader's 0:01:06.880 --> 0:01:10.679 speeches that took place last week opening the proceedings here 0:01:10.720 --> 0:01:13.560 in Brazil. To do that, I'm joined by my colleague 0:01:13.600 --> 0:01:17.880 Sarah Wells, who leads Bloomberg's coverage of climate and energy. Sarah, 0:01:17.959 --> 0:01:18.759 Welcome to the show. 0:01:19.040 --> 0:01:19.639 Thanks Egsha. 0:01:20.160 --> 0:01:22.319 So we got a chance to see a little bit 0:01:22.440 --> 0:01:25.119 of the Amazon forest. What was it like we did? 0:01:25.880 --> 0:01:28.800 It was great. I mean after a couple of days 0:01:28.840 --> 0:01:31.959 in the blue Zone at the World Leader's Summit, you 0:01:31.959 --> 0:01:33.800 could be literally any country in the world. You were 0:01:33.800 --> 0:01:37.840 in a windowless tent, and so to be outside in 0:01:37.920 --> 0:01:42.720 the forest learning new things about fruits and plants and 0:01:42.760 --> 0:01:46.279 how they grow, getting some time on a boat, getting 0:01:46.280 --> 0:01:49.760 to have a beer and look at our surroundings was fantastic. 0:01:49.840 --> 0:01:53.760 And did I guess speak to the controversial reason for 0:01:53.800 --> 0:01:56.080 putting the summit in Belem in the first place, which 0:01:56.160 --> 0:01:58.800 was to try to give the attendees some exposure to 0:01:58.880 --> 0:01:59.600 what's happening here. 0:02:00.000 --> 0:02:03.400 We saw a three hundred year old tree called the Sumahoma. 0:02:04.160 --> 0:02:08.040 We saw a boat filled with military police trying to 0:02:08.080 --> 0:02:10.359 take care of all the delegates who are coming here. 0:02:10.960 --> 0:02:14.400 And the reason for all that security is that we've 0:02:14.520 --> 0:02:18.040 had many world leaders show up here at copp and 0:02:18.360 --> 0:02:21.679 give speeches. It's typical at the start when they want 0:02:21.760 --> 0:02:25.120 to inspire the delegates to go and do something bold, 0:02:25.680 --> 0:02:28.440 But there weren't that many world leaders this time around. 0:02:28.720 --> 0:02:31.239 That's right. I mean, I had the King and Queen 0:02:31.280 --> 0:02:34.919 of Sweden on my plane coming here. But unfortunately, within 0:02:35.320 --> 0:02:39.120 the Blue Zone itself, the journalists were very segregated from 0:02:39.200 --> 0:02:42.239 the world leaders. It's literally a barricade going down the 0:02:42.240 --> 0:02:47.760 middle of the corridor, and so seeing a physical world 0:02:47.840 --> 0:02:50.480 leader in the flesh was not what we experienced. We 0:02:50.480 --> 0:02:52.280 sat an ow media room and watched them on TV. 0:02:52.760 --> 0:02:55.920 Regardless, I know that was not ideal. We would have 0:02:56.040 --> 0:02:58.440 wanted to really be in the room with the world leaders. 0:02:58.720 --> 0:03:01.120 But were there highlights from the speeches? 0:03:01.600 --> 0:03:05.839 Yeah, I think I enjoyed. Me and Motley, the Prime 0:03:05.840 --> 0:03:09.600 Minister of Barbados obviously you know she has has some 0:03:09.639 --> 0:03:12.280 credentials as a as a climate campaigner, but she came 0:03:12.280 --> 0:03:15.720 with a specific idea around methane, which was something new. 0:03:16.320 --> 0:03:19.400 I have come here however, this afternoon to speak on 0:03:19.400 --> 0:03:24.080 one s and that is methane. The scientists advise that 0:03:24.240 --> 0:03:28.720 this is the main way that we can not stall 0:03:29.360 --> 0:03:34.880 the increase in temperatures, but reverse the temperature increase that 0:03:34.960 --> 0:03:36.600 we have seen across the planet. 0:03:37.000 --> 0:03:41.040 For Bloomberg clients and listeners, Petro Sanchez floated the idea 0:03:41.080 --> 0:03:48.880 of a levy on business class flights and private jets 0:03:48.600 --> 0:03:54.240 class premium. Yet obviously that's of a concern to a 0:03:54.320 --> 0:03:57.760 relatively small proportion of the world, but certainly for some. 0:03:58.440 --> 0:04:00.960 And then we did have some quite remarks from some 0:04:01.000 --> 0:04:04.520 of the Latin American leaders about Trump. In particular, Columbia's 0:04:04.520 --> 0:04:07.480 Petro was the most direct. 0:04:07.800 --> 0:04:16.040 Elke Senor Donald Trump Novenga el dubta l personal dena 0:04:18.400 --> 0:04:24.760 Jevas Sosia that a laismo econeia allow maney that. 0:04:25.360 --> 0:04:27.640 You know he he said that Trump is against humanity 0:04:27.680 --> 0:04:29.760 and a bunch of other things. And so there were 0:04:29.800 --> 0:04:33.640 definitely some strong feelings expressed about the American position on 0:04:33.680 --> 0:04:34.599 climate at this point. 0:04:34.880 --> 0:04:38.080 And it's just the start of the negotiations. It's your 0:04:38.200 --> 0:04:41.840 first COP meeting. What has your experience been like. 0:04:42.440 --> 0:04:45.599 I think everyone said before I came that you know, 0:04:45.640 --> 0:04:47.440 the sort of the rest of the world recedes and 0:04:47.520 --> 0:04:50.280 suddenly you're in this bubble where you know, some some 0:04:50.440 --> 0:04:53.760 things make sense, some things really don't, And I think 0:04:53.800 --> 0:04:56.240 that's that's the case. You know, you suddenly find yourself 0:04:56.480 --> 0:05:01.120 sort of pouring over very technical discussion which can have 0:05:01.200 --> 0:05:04.720 real world consequences. So definitely, you know, being being in 0:05:04.720 --> 0:05:07.880 a media center with hundreds of other journalists, expensive food, 0:05:08.640 --> 0:05:13.160 very popular, occasional arrivals of coffee deliveries that you know, 0:05:13.200 --> 0:05:16.560 that stuff has been has been fun. But I think 0:05:16.640 --> 0:05:18.520 what we you know, what we are all here to 0:05:18.520 --> 0:05:21.360 write about, is significant pieces of news that will hopefully 0:05:21.400 --> 0:05:24.400 come out of this. And that's that's on all the attendees, 0:05:24.400 --> 0:05:26.640 but it's obviously most of all on our on our 0:05:26.640 --> 0:05:27.960 host country, Brazil. 0:05:27.839 --> 0:05:31.640 And what do you expect we might be writing about 0:05:31.680 --> 0:05:32.479 in two weeks time. 0:05:32.800 --> 0:05:35.240 Well As of now, the discussion is all around what 0:05:35.360 --> 0:05:37.280 ends up on the agenda. That's a very you know, 0:05:37.400 --> 0:05:40.400 temporary discussion. As I said earlier, I do think methane 0:05:40.440 --> 0:05:42.560 seems to have some momentum behind it, so let's see, 0:05:42.960 --> 0:05:45.000 let's see if we get anywhere on that. And then 0:05:45.200 --> 0:05:48.480 I think this discussion around whether there should be a 0:05:48.480 --> 0:05:51.640 potential roadmap to move away from fossil fuels. Obviously, the 0:05:52.279 --> 0:05:55.080 declaration to even attempt to move away from fossil fuels 0:05:55.160 --> 0:05:58.960 was highly contentious at previous cops and so I think 0:05:59.240 --> 0:06:01.960 the fact that Brazil is even looking to put that 0:06:02.000 --> 0:06:04.680 back on the agenda does suggest that they're prepared to, 0:06:05.160 --> 0:06:08.320 you know, to go into a region that will come 0:06:08.360 --> 0:06:11.159 with a fight, so we will be watching that really closely. 0:06:11.200 --> 0:06:15.080 And then lastly, I would say I think the influence 0:06:15.560 --> 0:06:18.039 probably not on the ground, but let's see the influence 0:06:18.120 --> 0:06:20.600 or otherwise of the US on proceedings is obviously a 0:06:20.680 --> 0:06:21.799 huge thing for us to watch. 0:06:22.000 --> 0:06:29.520 Thank you, Sarah, thank you for having me join me 0:06:29.640 --> 0:06:32.120 after the break where I speak with Rachel Kite, the 0:06:32.240 --> 0:06:36.800 UK's Special Representative for Climate, about negotiations in an increasingly 0:06:36.880 --> 0:06:40.480 polarized world. To find all of Bloomberg's coverage of COP thirty, 0:06:40.640 --> 0:06:43.640 head to our website bloomberg dot com Forward Slash Green. 0:06:43.960 --> 0:06:46.599 You can also sign up to Bloomberg Green's newsletter that 0:06:46.720 --> 0:06:49.680 comes out daily during the COP meeting. Find it at 0:06:49.680 --> 0:07:03.840 Bloomberg dot com Forward Slash Newsletters. There are a few 0:07:03.839 --> 0:07:07.800 people as well placed to understand how climate negotiations play 0:07:07.800 --> 0:07:11.680 out as Rachel Kite. She is the UK's Special Representative 0:07:11.720 --> 0:07:14.400 for Climate and she has held a number of significant 0:07:14.400 --> 0:07:18.680 positions across the climate space. She was the Special Representative 0:07:18.760 --> 0:07:22.360 of the United Nations Secretary General and the CEO of 0:07:22.440 --> 0:07:25.920 Sustainable Energy for All. She also served as World Bank 0:07:25.960 --> 0:07:30.480 Groups Vice President and Special Envy for Climate Change. In 0:07:30.520 --> 0:07:32.720 her current role. She has spent the last year up 0:07:32.720 --> 0:07:35.960 to COP thirty meeting diplomats and leaders from around the 0:07:36.000 --> 0:07:39.640 world trying to show up the support for action here 0:07:39.680 --> 0:07:40.200 in Berlin. 0:07:42.720 --> 0:07:43.920 Rachel, welcome to the show. 0:07:44.160 --> 0:07:46.200 It's lovely to see you. Actually, So you. 0:07:46.160 --> 0:07:49.320 Were appointed a UK Special Representative for Climate just over 0:07:49.360 --> 0:07:53.520 a year ago and your goal is wide ranging. You're 0:07:53.560 --> 0:07:59.040 supposed to support ministers that will help increase UK's diplomatic 0:07:59.040 --> 0:08:02.160 engagement on climate globally. What have you done so far. 0:08:02.480 --> 0:08:06.760 I've been out there in the world really pushing out 0:08:07.400 --> 0:08:09.640 the intention of this government when it came into office, 0:08:09.680 --> 0:08:12.840 which was that even though we're only one percent of 0:08:12.840 --> 0:08:16.520 global emissions, that's not a reason to disengage, which I 0:08:16.560 --> 0:08:20.720 think had sometimes been the case beforehand, but precisely because 0:08:20.720 --> 0:08:22.680 we're only one percent of global emissions, we need the 0:08:22.680 --> 0:08:25.840 other ninety nine percent to be going through the transition 0:08:25.920 --> 0:08:28.480 that we've started to go through ourselves, and at the 0:08:28.480 --> 0:08:32.280 same time this growing realization about how much we need 0:08:32.280 --> 0:08:34.640 to be dealing with adaptation and resilience. Now we've just 0:08:34.640 --> 0:08:37.720 seen the Climate Change Committee come out with a domestic 0:08:37.760 --> 0:08:40.240 report on how vulnerable we are as our own country. 0:08:40.800 --> 0:08:43.400 But what's been really interesting. So I've been in every continent. 0:08:43.520 --> 0:08:47.160 I've been talking to middle income countries about missions reduction 0:08:47.440 --> 0:08:50.840 and their energy transitions, and then talking to lower income 0:08:50.840 --> 0:08:54.520 countries about growth and prosperity and investment and trade that 0:08:54.600 --> 0:08:57.560 is green, and then to countries that are really vulnerable 0:08:57.559 --> 0:09:01.120 about how much more we can do to mainstream adaptation 0:09:01.200 --> 0:09:02.880 and resilience into their economic. 0:09:02.559 --> 0:09:03.360 Growth and planning. 0:09:03.640 --> 0:09:06.680 But when I'm out there, what countries want is the 0:09:06.760 --> 0:09:10.680 how to, especially on the energy transition. So countless numbers 0:09:10.679 --> 0:09:14.640 of countries that want technical assistance, support on power sector reform, 0:09:14.920 --> 0:09:18.520 on how to build an offshore wind industry, how to 0:09:18.559 --> 0:09:22.240 decommission call, how to make the transition that we've made 0:09:22.280 --> 0:09:24.920 over the last twenty odd years, and then how to 0:09:25.080 --> 0:09:27.640 partner with us, and how to get more UK investment 0:09:27.800 --> 0:09:31.760 into their green transitions, how to talk about the difficulties 0:09:31.800 --> 0:09:34.720 of hard to debate sectors, and how to get more 0:09:34.920 --> 0:09:38.080 of their investment into the UK economy. So yeah, special 0:09:38.080 --> 0:09:40.440 representative for Climate, but a big piece of this is 0:09:40.440 --> 0:09:43.400 about the trade and investment that makes those transitions really happen. 0:09:43.840 --> 0:09:46.280 And you get to do this because the UK has 0:09:46.480 --> 0:09:49.160 for the last seventeen years since the UK Climate Change 0:09:49.200 --> 0:09:52.800 Actor was passed a leader on climate issues, whether it 0:09:53.080 --> 0:09:56.240 was the Conservative Party which led the government for most 0:09:56.280 --> 0:09:58.760 of that time, or whether it's the Labor Party now, 0:10:00.000 --> 0:10:01.880 And in the process the UK has shown not just 0:10:01.920 --> 0:10:05.120 how to do a law, but also how to deploy 0:10:05.320 --> 0:10:08.520 large amounts of renewables, how to build the grid, and 0:10:08.760 --> 0:10:11.680 you get to take UK's learnings out to the world 0:10:12.120 --> 0:10:15.240 but also reflect back on the UK at a time 0:10:15.800 --> 0:10:20.120 when the politics are shifting. The Conservative Party that led 0:10:20.160 --> 0:10:22.720 on climate now wants to get rid of the Climate 0:10:22.760 --> 0:10:27.120 Change Act. Reform Party, which is gaining in polls at 0:10:27.200 --> 0:10:31.200 least and is ahead of Labor and Conservatives in many cases, 0:10:32.000 --> 0:10:33.840 is saying they want to get rid of net zero goal. 0:10:34.360 --> 0:10:37.000 Even though this Labor government, the one that you represent, 0:10:37.440 --> 0:10:40.520 isn't turning back on climate How hard does that make 0:10:40.559 --> 0:10:43.480 your life when you go abroad to take the message 0:10:43.679 --> 0:10:45.760 of what needs to be done on climate change. 0:10:45.960 --> 0:10:46.160 Well. 0:10:46.200 --> 0:10:50.800 I think that across the world many countries are experiencing 0:10:51.120 --> 0:10:56.120 a pushback from populace on the right mainly but also 0:10:56.400 --> 0:11:00.000 in the past on the left around the drive nets. 0:11:00.800 --> 0:11:07.079 If people can't feel or imagine what a clean energy 0:11:07.120 --> 0:11:09.720 future looks like to them, and feels like in their pocket. 0:11:10.679 --> 0:11:14.600 Then they are vulnerable to the sort of miscommunication, disinformation 0:11:14.679 --> 0:11:17.480 or whatever you often see now. So actually it's a 0:11:17.480 --> 0:11:20.760 point of conversation, right. So people see that we had 0:11:20.880 --> 0:11:25.400 a bipartisan support, right as Americans would say, around our goals, 0:11:25.800 --> 0:11:27.680 and you know, and of course a lot of the 0:11:27.880 --> 0:11:31.680 indications are that the public still wants clean air, wants 0:11:31.760 --> 0:11:35.240 clean water, wants safe communities, wants protection from extreme heat, 0:11:35.679 --> 0:11:39.319 wants floods planning. But what they don't like is energy 0:11:39.320 --> 0:11:42.520 bills that are expensive, and there's very real reasons for that. 0:11:42.600 --> 0:11:45.080 And also with all humility, I mean, you know, nobody's 0:11:45.120 --> 0:11:47.640 got this all the way right, right, So, as a 0:11:47.679 --> 0:11:50.520 country that is going through a moment of political tension 0:11:50.600 --> 0:11:54.280 around the speed with which this transition is happening, the 0:11:54.320 --> 0:11:58.320 government came in and started fixing pieces of the regulatory system, 0:11:58.559 --> 0:12:00.680 putting in place bits and pieces that would allow us 0:12:00.720 --> 0:12:02.760 to go faster to meet the goal of twenty thirty 0:12:02.760 --> 0:12:04.680 that was set by the government when it was running 0:12:04.720 --> 0:12:07.880 for office. All of that is happening, but you don't 0:12:07.920 --> 0:12:10.960 necessarily see the result immediately. So then what's the challenge 0:12:10.960 --> 0:12:15.480 of communication internationally? People see us in a leadership position. 0:12:16.000 --> 0:12:18.600 See that this is a difficult issue domestically, but for 0:12:18.679 --> 0:12:20.880 many other countries it's a difficult issue domestically, and so 0:12:20.960 --> 0:12:22.199 that's a point of commonality. 0:12:22.280 --> 0:12:22.520 Really. 0:12:23.000 --> 0:12:26.559 So you're saying, so far the UK's leadership on climate, 0:12:26.600 --> 0:12:29.480 whether that was through making laws or through energy, is 0:12:29.520 --> 0:12:32.080 one that other countries wanted to copy. But now they're 0:12:32.080 --> 0:12:35.960 also looking at the UK and the crumbling political consensus 0:12:35.960 --> 0:12:38.600 and they are seeing whether there are lessons they can 0:12:38.720 --> 0:12:42.120 learn from it. Because these things are not isolated. They're 0:12:42.160 --> 0:12:44.719 not just happening in the UK. They're happening in other places. No. 0:12:44.920 --> 0:12:48.880 I mean, look across the EU, look across Socania, look 0:12:48.960 --> 0:12:53.040 across Latin America. You know, these are issues that are 0:12:53.160 --> 0:12:56.160 present in any democracy, right. And what's interesting is a 0:12:56.240 --> 0:12:58.840 number of countries now have got governments, you know, with 0:12:58.960 --> 0:13:02.200 commitments to you know, phasing out of coal by twenty 0:13:02.280 --> 0:13:07.360 forty or really ambitious goals around the energy transition. And 0:13:07.880 --> 0:13:11.960 you know, it's not just the political narrative which has 0:13:12.160 --> 0:13:16.000 become more pungent, right, it is also that global growth 0:13:16.559 --> 0:13:20.439 has slowed or is not rampant. Right, So, for fear 0:13:20.480 --> 0:13:23.480 of a populist uprising, right, a number of countries are like, Okay, 0:13:23.800 --> 0:13:27.040 how do I transition away from coal on the timeline 0:13:27.080 --> 0:13:30.040 that I've set, Where is the investment going to come from? 0:13:30.160 --> 0:13:33.320 How do I navigate tensions around tariff's what is that 0:13:33.440 --> 0:13:36.360 doing to the level of growth? How do I secure 0:13:36.360 --> 0:13:38.680 a just transition for the people employed in the sector. 0:13:39.000 --> 0:13:43.920 So these are universally difficult and universally important themes that 0:13:44.000 --> 0:13:46.080 countries want to work on together. And so when I'm 0:13:46.080 --> 0:13:48.360 traveling that's what I'm talking about. 0:13:48.480 --> 0:13:51.640 Are there specific country examples where over the past year 0:13:51.720 --> 0:13:54.560 you have seen that play out and work in favor 0:13:54.600 --> 0:13:55.280 of climate action. 0:13:55.559 --> 0:13:55.839 Yeah. 0:13:55.880 --> 0:13:59.920 So the Philippines has got extremely ambitious goals around phase 0:14:00.000 --> 0:14:04.240 seeing out coal and bringing in offshore wind and diversifying 0:14:04.920 --> 0:14:07.679 and bringing more investment into solar, not just in the 0:14:07.760 --> 0:14:10.920 sort of metromillar area, but across the country. So Korea 0:14:11.320 --> 0:14:15.280 new government in place inherits it and was very bullish 0:14:15.600 --> 0:14:18.920 on the campaign trail around their ambitions how do they 0:14:18.920 --> 0:14:21.520 do it? They're about to invest in an offshore wind 0:14:21.560 --> 0:14:24.160 industry as well. Vietnam, which is a country that we've 0:14:24.160 --> 0:14:26.600 worked through the Just Energy Transition Partnership for a number 0:14:26.640 --> 0:14:29.280 of years, but that's starting to move along the AZI 0:14:29.400 --> 0:14:32.000 and power grid. How do you build a power grid 0:14:32.320 --> 0:14:35.600 that allows each of the Asian countries to grow their 0:14:35.600 --> 0:14:39.280 economies by accessing the clean energy that each of them possess. 0:14:39.400 --> 0:14:43.280 Right Eastern Caribbean, how do each of those countries build 0:14:43.280 --> 0:14:47.240 out their geothermal You know, it's probably cheaper and easier 0:14:47.240 --> 0:14:50.760 to do it as an integrated grid, but that's really complicated. 0:14:50.760 --> 0:14:54.520 How do they think about that? Australia India huge move 0:14:54.640 --> 0:14:57.960 to develop offshore wind off the good coast goods you're 0:14:57.960 --> 0:15:00.400 out off Tamil Nadu. You know how to do that. 0:15:00.520 --> 0:15:03.480 We have a really built out technical cooperation with them anyway, 0:15:03.880 --> 0:15:06.360 and now we're investing in each other. And then China. 0:15:06.520 --> 0:15:08.800 I've just come back from China where we have a 0:15:08.800 --> 0:15:12.840 technical cooperation on power sector reform and also now on 0:15:12.920 --> 0:15:14.280 battery storage and hydrogen. 0:15:14.760 --> 0:15:18.760 So in your time covering climate, you've covered it from 0:15:18.840 --> 0:15:21.480 many different angles. You've worked in the private sector, You've 0:15:21.640 --> 0:15:25.000 tried to push carbon markets, You've worked at the cop level, 0:15:25.040 --> 0:15:29.000 looking at diplomacy and how negotiations work. We are in 0:15:29.040 --> 0:15:32.360 the tenth year of the Paris Agreement. Could have been 0:15:32.360 --> 0:15:35.920 this year when we celebrate what Paris has achieved. But 0:15:36.080 --> 0:15:39.360 with the US the largest emitter, leaving the Paris Agreement, 0:15:40.600 --> 0:15:43.320 how would you class the progress that the world has 0:15:43.520 --> 0:15:44.560 made so far. 0:15:45.320 --> 0:15:50.160 It's definitely made progress. I mean, over the next few days, 0:15:50.600 --> 0:15:53.760 you know, the narrative will be, oh, we're not on track. Yeah, 0:15:53.800 --> 0:15:56.320 we're not on track. We're more on track than we 0:15:56.360 --> 0:15:59.920 would have been without the Paris Agreement, and the plan 0:16:00.160 --> 0:16:04.080 that countries are now submitting are fully politically contested at home, 0:16:04.640 --> 0:16:08.320 you know, hard fought economic plans, which is what we 0:16:08.440 --> 0:16:11.360 really wanted ten years ago. But we're now just beginning 0:16:11.400 --> 0:16:13.160 to see in the third generation that this is what 0:16:13.240 --> 0:16:15.840 they are. And we wouldn't be there without the Paris Agreement. 0:16:15.880 --> 0:16:17.920 I don't think countries would be lining up to go 0:16:17.960 --> 0:16:20.960 through the pain of developing these reports if we hadn't. 0:16:21.240 --> 0:16:23.440 But the point is that we're not going fast enough 0:16:23.480 --> 0:16:27.600 and we're not going far enough, and so the Paris 0:16:27.640 --> 0:16:31.160 Agreement is vulnerable to attack from popular so or from 0:16:31.160 --> 0:16:33.680 the polls on the right and on the left, because 0:16:33.880 --> 0:16:37.280 it isn't meeting needs sufficiently well. And so when we 0:16:37.360 --> 0:16:42.840 gather in Brazil, the leaders that gather and those who 0:16:42.840 --> 0:16:46.120 aren't there but by proxy need to sort of say, okay, 0:16:46.240 --> 0:16:50.160 we're not yet on track, but we commit to doing more. 0:16:50.400 --> 0:16:53.400 Transitions don't go smoothly, they don't go in a straight line. 0:16:53.600 --> 0:16:55.600 They can go very fast and then slow down and 0:16:55.680 --> 0:16:57.680 very fast, and it's a series of s curves. It's 0:16:57.720 --> 0:17:01.160 a series of leaps forward, and there's no reason why 0:17:01.160 --> 0:17:03.560 we can't commit to doing that. But the fact that 0:17:03.600 --> 0:17:07.280 we're multilaterally all sort of working together to make this 0:17:07.400 --> 0:17:10.560 go faster, that's the conversation. It's not a conversation about 0:17:10.560 --> 0:17:12.760 going slower. Is important. 0:17:13.520 --> 0:17:17.119 Are we working together though, because recently we saw a 0:17:17.280 --> 0:17:20.639 very clear sign of how things don't work together at 0:17:20.720 --> 0:17:25.040 multilateral forums. The International Maritime Organization had a vote to 0:17:25.080 --> 0:17:29.439 put in a global carbon tax for shipping, a sector 0:17:29.480 --> 0:17:33.800 that produces one billion tons of emissions, and until about 0:17:33.840 --> 0:17:37.440 the day of the vote, there was good feeling among 0:17:37.480 --> 0:17:42.920 countries that they'd argued over politically contested plan and had 0:17:42.960 --> 0:17:45.120 come to something that they could agree on. And then 0:17:45.240 --> 0:17:50.320 one country, the US, with its ability to call diplomats 0:17:50.440 --> 0:17:53.760 and make threats, which we've reported on, caused them to 0:17:53.840 --> 0:17:56.280 delay the vote, and now some say that it may 0:17:56.320 --> 0:17:59.520 never come to pass. So are we working together. 0:18:00.000 --> 0:18:03.000 This majority of countries are working together. For sure. I 0:18:03.040 --> 0:18:07.199 think what happened at the IMO was extraordinarily disappointing, right, 0:18:07.200 --> 0:18:10.800 I mean, that's a decade's effort at best delayed, at 0:18:10.800 --> 0:18:13.399 worst put on the shelf. And so we'll have to 0:18:13.400 --> 0:18:15.160 come back at it another way and find a way 0:18:15.160 --> 0:18:17.920 to do this, because that the polluter has to pay 0:18:18.160 --> 0:18:20.520 is a kind of fundamental principle of all of this. 0:18:21.200 --> 0:18:24.800 And yeah, the United States made clear its position over 0:18:24.840 --> 0:18:28.359 the summer and then intensified its diplomacy in the days 0:18:28.480 --> 0:18:31.399 up to the vote. But it also creates space for 0:18:31.520 --> 0:18:35.120 plausible deniability for other countries that, for whatever reasons, didn't 0:18:35.200 --> 0:18:39.240 like this or didn't like that. So in any multilateral negotiation, 0:18:40.000 --> 0:18:43.080 there may be one protagonist which attracts most of the attention, 0:18:43.240 --> 0:18:46.440 but it normally creates new spaces which can be exploited 0:18:46.440 --> 0:18:48.560 one way or the other. But when it comes to blame, 0:18:48.640 --> 0:18:51.159 I think obviously the United States has said that it 0:18:51.560 --> 0:18:56.760 filed its intention to withdraw. That comes due after cop 0:18:56.840 --> 0:18:58.439 right but at the end of the year beginning of 0:18:58.640 --> 0:19:02.320 twenty twenty six. So for the moment, the United States 0:19:02.359 --> 0:19:05.960 is in, but it has made clear its intention to leave, 0:19:06.560 --> 0:19:09.000 which puts it in a minority, even if it is 0:19:09.040 --> 0:19:12.080 a large economy and nobody else is leaving it. And 0:19:12.119 --> 0:19:15.520 so I think it is clear that everybody's working together, 0:19:16.040 --> 0:19:18.639 and I think it's clear that when we gather on 0:19:18.960 --> 0:19:20.919 the port city in the middle of the Amazon, that 0:19:21.560 --> 0:19:24.000 what leaders will be saying is that this is a 0:19:24.080 --> 0:19:27.040 multilateral process which is a value and will be defended, 0:19:27.080 --> 0:19:30.840 and we will defend the multilateral processes that help us 0:19:30.880 --> 0:19:34.399 work together on these problems which go beyond all boundaries. 0:19:35.359 --> 0:19:38.400 If you take this ten years on Paris, A lot 0:19:38.440 --> 0:19:40.680 of it at COP meetings, and I've been to five 0:19:40.720 --> 0:19:43.159 of them, so not as many as you, but I 0:19:43.160 --> 0:19:47.040 can say it's so technical and so in depth necessary, 0:19:47.320 --> 0:19:50.560 but one that doesn't break through for a politician to 0:19:50.640 --> 0:19:53.200 go back home and make a case for why we 0:19:53.240 --> 0:19:57.199 are doing climate action. How do you take what has 0:19:57.240 --> 0:20:00.399 been achieved and make that case in a political away 0:20:00.880 --> 0:20:04.639 to people so that the next ten years leaders can 0:20:04.720 --> 0:20:07.000 continue to support this multilateral forum. 0:20:07.080 --> 0:20:09.439 Yeah, it's a great question. So for the last ten years. 0:20:09.960 --> 0:20:12.040 So first of all, we agreed Paris, then everybody sort 0:20:12.080 --> 0:20:16.240 of went home, and then the negotiators sort of negotiated 0:20:16.280 --> 0:20:18.719 a rule book on how we would implement what we'd agreed, 0:20:19.240 --> 0:20:21.680 and that took way too long, But that's done now 0:20:21.920 --> 0:20:24.240 and you could actually say that we've negotiated everything that 0:20:24.280 --> 0:20:28.280 needs to be negotiated, and so what this cop represents 0:20:28.320 --> 0:20:32.800 is a significant pivot to accelerating implementation. So it's all 0:20:32.840 --> 0:20:35.800 about implementing all of the things that we've agreed. That's 0:20:35.840 --> 0:20:38.439 what the Brazilians are trying to organize, like outside of 0:20:38.480 --> 0:20:42.040 the negotiations, and I think that that's actually much easier 0:20:42.240 --> 0:20:45.159 for politicians to sell at home. So why would we 0:20:45.240 --> 0:20:50.320 go to Brazil and discuss investing in the Amazon and 0:20:50.359 --> 0:20:54.359 other tropical forests right? Well, first, because if we lose them, 0:20:54.760 --> 0:20:58.000 we lose control over the thermostatu of the planet. Right 0:20:58.040 --> 0:21:01.040 we will pass a tipping point which will bring much 0:21:01.080 --> 0:21:04.720 more climate impact to everybody. But you know, to look 0:21:04.760 --> 0:21:07.040 at it from a British perspective, if we lose the 0:21:07.080 --> 0:21:11.280 tropical forests and their integrity, our own food security is 0:21:11.320 --> 0:21:14.720 going to be massively disrupted. So the idea that our 0:21:14.800 --> 0:21:19.119 domestic security is secure if we haven't got you know, 0:21:19.280 --> 0:21:22.720 a climate regime which is starting to see real progress, 0:21:22.880 --> 0:21:26.159 is you know, at the very heart of why I existed, 0:21:26.240 --> 0:21:28.920 my rule and my twin Ruth Davis, who's the special 0:21:28.960 --> 0:21:31.720 representative of nature, why she exists. You know, we're there 0:21:31.920 --> 0:21:34.760 because our foreign policy has to have climate and nature 0:21:34.760 --> 0:21:38.040 at the heart of it, because we need those relationships 0:21:38.040 --> 0:21:40.639 in order to be secure ourselves. So that's the reason 0:21:40.680 --> 0:21:42.679 to go, right, We're not going to be safe and 0:21:42.720 --> 0:21:44.840 we're not going to be secure. We're not going to 0:21:44.880 --> 0:21:48.120 prosper if we lose the tropical rainforests. It's as simple 0:21:48.160 --> 0:21:50.200 as that. So I think that as we get into 0:21:50.600 --> 0:21:54.720 implementation and accelerating implementation, it's actually easier to explain to 0:21:54.720 --> 0:21:56.040 the world's public why we're there. 0:21:57.040 --> 0:21:59.880 You've got many examples that you could use to say, sure, 0:22:00.160 --> 0:22:03.440 this should land right. The price of coffee has gone 0:22:03.520 --> 0:22:07.840 up because there's been persistent drought in Brazil, which produces 0:22:07.840 --> 0:22:11.159 forty percent of the world's coffee. The price of electricity 0:22:11.240 --> 0:22:15.840 is high because we've had very high gas prices because 0:22:15.880 --> 0:22:20.280 of the Russian attack on Ukraine, which have been brought 0:22:20.320 --> 0:22:23.879 down because of renewables. There are real world clear examples, 0:22:23.920 --> 0:22:28.199 but they're not cutting through to people. What's missing. 0:22:28.600 --> 0:22:28.800 Well. 0:22:28.840 --> 0:22:33.119 I think that we haven't in many cases taken the 0:22:33.200 --> 0:22:37.520