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Speaker 1: I went in and there's Aaron Sorkin, and I was like,

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Speaker 1: holy shit. I had no idea that it was going

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Speaker 1: to be aarin with Tommy Shlami. And it was so

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Speaker 1: exciting back in the day because you'd go in and

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Speaker 1: it's like, oh, Steven Spielberg's here. It really felt like

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Speaker 1: you were moving forward. Yeah, even if you weren't getting

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Speaker 1: the jobs.

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Speaker 2: Welcome to off the Cup my personal anti anxiety antidote.

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Speaker 2: This might surprise you guys, but I don't watch a

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Speaker 2: ton of TV. Let me clarify. Let me clarify. I

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Speaker 2: watch a lot of TV. I watched a lot of news,

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Speaker 2: as you can imagine. You probably know I watch a

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Speaker 2: lot of Bravo, but that's about it. I've never seen

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Speaker 2: an episode of Game of Thrones or Ozarks or Breaking Bad.

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Speaker 2: I know, I know, I know, I know. I know.

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Speaker 2: There's a lot of reasons for this. I think because

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Speaker 2: I actually love TV. I make a living off TV.

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Speaker 2: There are so many great things on TV, from travel

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Speaker 2: and cookie shows to streamers like Severance, which I watched religiously.

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Speaker 2: It was one of my favorites, and awesome docs that

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Speaker 2: I can't get enough of.

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Speaker 3: But there's almost too.

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Speaker 2: Much TV, and it feels a little overwhelming. And I

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Speaker 2: think for a lot of us, especially those of us

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Speaker 2: like me who struggle with anxiety, feeling overwhelmed by options

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Speaker 2: or the thing that everyone's talking about, like it makes

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Speaker 2: me just want to shut down and check out. And

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Speaker 2: so I like, I remove myself from the entire project

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Speaker 2: of watching TV and keeping up with TV. And in fact,

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Speaker 2: I just rewatched stuff I've already seen a thousand times.

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Speaker 2: But the other thing is, I just don't think TV

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Speaker 2: is as good.

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Speaker 3: As it used to be.

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Speaker 2: And I don't mean good, like in terms of the product.

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Speaker 2: The product's great, there's so much good stuff on TV,

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Speaker 2: But I mean in terms of like feel good, like

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Speaker 2: making you feel good. You know, I've been rewatching Northern Exposure,

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Speaker 2: a show I loved as a kid and I love

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Speaker 2: just as much now.

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Speaker 3: You could ever make the show today. It's too nice.

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Speaker 2: Ultimately, everyone's a good person. The problems are pretty anna dyne.

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Speaker 2: The small town goodness is so infectious it even infects

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Speaker 2: the hardened city kid. We'd like laugh at this kind

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Speaker 2: of show today if someone were pitching a Northern Exposure.

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Speaker 2: Which brings me to one of my favorite people, Aaron Sorkin.

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Speaker 2: We worked together on his show The Newsroom, but before that,

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Speaker 2: his projects like American President, West Wing.

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Speaker 3: Oh, they were so good. They were so good. They

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Speaker 3: were so good in terms of their writing and production.

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Speaker 2: But they were also just good, good people doing good things.

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Speaker 2: Less Coppola More Capra, as Larry Wilmore once told me,

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Speaker 2: when it came to these projects, mister Smith was already

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Speaker 2: in Washington. I love that.

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Speaker 3: I miss that.

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Speaker 2: I miss watching shows and movies that make you feel good.

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Speaker 2: And I suppose that's what people like about Ted Lasso.

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Speaker 2: Another show I don't want, but one that I hear

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Speaker 2: makes people feel good.

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Speaker 3: It's a feel good show. Don't you think we need

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Speaker 3: more of that?

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Speaker 2: I do?

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Speaker 3: And that's what I want to talk about today with

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Speaker 3: our guests.

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Speaker 2: She's known for roles on The West Wing, Leftovers, American Crime,

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Speaker 2: Law and Order, and lots of other things. And she's

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Speaker 2: got a substack now that I love, where she shares

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Speaker 2: her life and her thoughts.

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Speaker 3: Welcome to Off the Cup, Janelle Maloney.

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Speaker 1: Hi, thank you for having me.

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Speaker 2: I'm so glad you're here, even just seeing you. We

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Speaker 2: don't know each other, we haven't met, but even just

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Speaker 2: seeing you, I'm just back at a different time.

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Speaker 3: I'm back. I'm back in the West Wing.

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Speaker 2: It just feels like things are so different now, and

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Speaker 2: I want to talk about the West Wing.

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Speaker 3: I want to talk about Hollywood.

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Speaker 2: I want to talk about all kinds of things with you,

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Speaker 2: I promise, But first, are you sick of talking about

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Speaker 2: the West Wing?

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Speaker 1: It's weird, It's well part of it now. It's self

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Speaker 1: inflicted because I actually am talking about it in this substack.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, but it was all I couldn't get away from it.

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Speaker 1: And there's this crazy thing now where it feels like

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Speaker 1: I'm on a hit show that I did twenty five

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Speaker 1: years ago.

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Speaker 2: What do you mean?

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Speaker 1: And don't get paid for well, because everywhere I go

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Speaker 1: people say, oh my god, I love you on the

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Speaker 1: West Wing. Yeah, I mean everywhere I go, multiple times

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Speaker 1: a day, and it's it's great. Everyone's so great. The

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Speaker 1: fans are great, many many, many of them were not

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Speaker 1: born when we started West Wing.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: So it's an interesting thing that I feel like a

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Speaker 1: lot of actors like we're sort of the first crop

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Speaker 1: of actors that are really dealing with these shows that

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Speaker 1: are kind of on all the time, ye everywhere forever. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and the kids. They don't care that, like, they don't

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Speaker 1: think of it as something that was done a long

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Speaker 1: time ago. Oh, it's like they'll watch Gilmore Girls, they'll

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Speaker 1: watch Friends, they'll watch West Wing. It's all the same

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Speaker 1: to them. Yeah, so it's a strange thing, but it's

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Speaker 1: also you know, it was sister, It was a wonderful

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Speaker 1: part of my life. But I mean I feel like

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Speaker 1: I've had fifteen lives since then.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and you have kind of this little time capsule

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Speaker 1: that I kind of hang around my neck and carry

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Speaker 1: with me.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: And and people always want to talk about and now

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Speaker 1: I'm talking about it. So I don't know. I've mixed feelings,

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Speaker 1: but generally it's all it's all positive.

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Speaker 3: If you can't beat them, join them.

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Speaker 2: And I know exactly what you mean, because there's a

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Speaker 2: time where I thought I'd like to move on from

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Speaker 2: politics and do something different and talk about other things.

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Speaker 2: Nobody wanted me to, Nobody cared what I had to

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Speaker 2: say if it wasn't on politics, And so I joined

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Speaker 2: substack too and decided, okay, I'll just do I'll keep

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Speaker 2: doing politics. I get it. I looked at your substack.

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Speaker 2: I've been following your substack it's so great and everyone

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Speaker 2: should check it out.

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Speaker 1: Thank you.

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Speaker 3: There's one.

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Speaker 2: Entry where you talk about meeting a fan, a young

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Speaker 2: woman named Mattie, who tells you that she was homeschooled

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Speaker 2: and only allowed to watch The West Wing and how

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Speaker 2: important your character Donna was to her, and you say

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Speaker 2: you write as crumbly white petals fell from the sky.

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Speaker 2: I thought about last night, about Maddie and all of

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Speaker 2: the other young exquisite women Donna has introduced me to,

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Speaker 2: the Chloe's and Jessica's, the Claire's and Kelsey's. I know

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Speaker 2: they want to be like Donna, And if I'm honest,

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Speaker 2: maybe what I want, what I really really want, is

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Speaker 2: to be like them, to be young and uncertain on

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Speaker 2: a glorious day with my whole stink in life ahead

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Speaker 2: of me. What a great I mean, it's beautiful writing,

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Speaker 2: and what a great way of summarizing or capturing your

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Speaker 2: relationship with these young fans. Yeah, you're watching the West

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Speaker 2: Wing now, Yeah, and you're almost envious of them.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, Well, I think we all are envious of young people.

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Speaker 1: That's just like you can't be. You can't be. I mean,

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Speaker 1: I'm in my fifties now and there's absolutely no way

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Speaker 1: you can't look at this young, beautiful girl with their

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Speaker 1: whole life ahead of you and not think like, wow,

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Speaker 1: I mean I feel I feel it's complicated because you

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Speaker 1: look at the at the world right now and it's confusing.

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Speaker 1: I mean, I have kids. I don't know what the

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Speaker 1: right thing is to look at and what do you

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Speaker 1: look away from, what do you ignore? And how do

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Speaker 1: you manage your mind so that you can move forward

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Speaker 1: in an optimistic way. But these young people, they're really beautiful,

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Speaker 1: they really are. And you know everyone's talking about there's

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Speaker 1: so much cynicism and dystopian kind of vibes around young people, yep.

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Speaker 1: And the truth is it's like, if you really look

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Speaker 1: at the actual young people in front of you, they're

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Speaker 1: all kind of amazing and their capacity for empathy and

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Speaker 1: understanding and trying to work together and do all of

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Speaker 1: these things that like we look at as being a snowflake.

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Speaker 1: And I'm a gen xer, so I'm like, oh, you know,

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Speaker 1: you're ridiculous, Like everything's ridiculous that they do. But if

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Speaker 1: you look at it for real, it's powerful and it

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Speaker 1: gives me a lot of hope. And so all these

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Speaker 1: young people that I meet. They yeah, they make me

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Speaker 1: feel good. But but heck, yeah, I would. I would.

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Speaker 1: I'd trade being twenty five for a little while. Again,

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Speaker 1: it would be nice.

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Speaker 2: You're right, it is complicated because in so many ways

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Speaker 2: I worry about our kids, and I want to talk

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Speaker 2: to you about that in particular too. We're both boy moms.

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Speaker 2: A little later, but yeah, of course, of course you

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Speaker 2: wish you had your whole life in front of you

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Speaker 2: and didn't know, maybe didn't know some of the things

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Speaker 2: that we know would be really nice and to not

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Speaker 2: be sort of tainted by that, or or to be

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Speaker 2: watching west Wing for the first time. You can't do

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Speaker 2: that twice. You can only do that once. Yeah, and

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Speaker 2: that's really fun and exciting. Okay, there's more west Wing

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Speaker 2: I want to do, But first I like to start

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Speaker 2: by asking what kind of kid were you, Jane.

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Speaker 1: I was a very enthusiastic kid. I think I talked

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Speaker 1: a lot. Like I was the kid who sat at

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Speaker 1: the dinner table and kept talking while everyone else was

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Speaker 1: like doing their homework and taking showers. I was still

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Speaker 1: talking to my parents about whatever. I wanted to be

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Speaker 1: an actress since I was really little. Okay, but I

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Speaker 1: had a very nice, happy childhood. I have two sisters.

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Speaker 1: I have a twin sister, and we have an older brother,

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Speaker 1: and we just had a kind of soup of benign

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Speaker 1: neglect in the most wonderful eighties seventies, eighties kind of way.

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Speaker 1: And my parents were hairdressers, and I grew up in California,

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Speaker 1: and they were just very like Golden Bruely and atheist,

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Speaker 1: Golden Rule people, and we're just really really really good,

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Speaker 1: good good people. So yeah, yeah.

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Speaker 2: Did you Were you encouraged when you realized you wanted

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Speaker 2: to be an actor?

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Speaker 1: Oh yeah, oh yeah. They would have been disappointed if I,

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Speaker 1: you know, if I didn't do it, because they were

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Speaker 1: you know, they were always those people. It's not good.

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Speaker 1: You're not supposed to raise your kids this way. But

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Speaker 1: it was like like if I had a problem with anybody,

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Speaker 1: my dad would be like, oh, that kid is just

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Speaker 1: he doesn't have what you She doesn't have what you have,

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Speaker 1: you know, screwler, Like you're better than you better. They

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Speaker 1: were always saying that we were better than other people,

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Speaker 1: which is like that's not you're not supposed to do that.

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Speaker 1: But but it's that kind of like irishy tribal you know,

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Speaker 1: hyping you up and not super conscious the way that

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Speaker 1: we are now, I mean, for better or worse. But

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Speaker 1: it worked. I mean I really believed in myself. So yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 1: so but yeah, they were really really encouraging. My My

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Speaker 1: dad came from kind of a show is adjacent fan

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Speaker 1: that I think they really wanted to be in show business.

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Speaker 1: My grandfather was a like brand burlesque shows and my

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Speaker 1: grandma was a burlesque dancer. Cool, and he grew up

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Speaker 1: in La. My dad grew up in La. So your

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Speaker 1: kid being in show business was not anything but like sure,

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Speaker 1: of course, Like why wouldn't you be in show business?

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Speaker 3: So right?

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Speaker 2: And so how involved do you get as a kid?

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Speaker 1: I didn't get I really wanted to do it, but

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Speaker 1: I didn't manage to do it. I was I tried

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Speaker 1: to get an agent. I did get an agent when

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Speaker 1: I was young, but I was very tall, and you know,

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Speaker 1: back in the day, you had to be like a

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Speaker 1: munchkin to work as an as an actor. You know,

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Speaker 1: you had to be like a tiny person that looked

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Speaker 1: ten years younger than they were.

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Speaker 3: You know what I mean.

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Speaker 1: I was like a giant person that looked ten years

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Speaker 1: older than I was. So they were like pass I

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Speaker 1: could never work, but it was good because I didn't

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Speaker 1: need to. But I was in every play and yeah,

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Speaker 1: you know, I did all of the drama stuff, and

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Speaker 1: yeah I was. I was really into it and my

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Speaker 1: parents were delightful.

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Speaker 3: What do you do after high school?

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Speaker 1: After high school? I went to a very random drama

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Speaker 1: school on the East Coast called Sunny Purchase. And the

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Speaker 1: reason I went there, for all of your listeners who

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Speaker 1: don't know, there was a time before the Internet when

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Speaker 1: we dinosaurs just learned about things through like other people

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Speaker 1: telling you, or like random pamphlets that happened to be

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Speaker 1: in the rivalry school. Yeah, and I had an acting

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Speaker 1: teacher who was a huge, huge influence in my life.

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Speaker 1: His friend taught at this school. And I was auditioning

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Speaker 1: for Juilliard because Juilliard was the only school that exists.

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Speaker 1: Did yeah, because that's where all the famous people went,

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Speaker 1: and and you didn't know anything else. You just knew,

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Speaker 1: like I just knew with the famous people. I didn't

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Speaker 1: have any help. My parents didn't go to college. It

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Speaker 1: wasn't like a college kind of time for us. And

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Speaker 1: then yeah, he went there. I didn't get I auditioned

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Speaker 1: for Juilliard. I did not get into Juilliard, and I

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Speaker 1: got in there. I got another school, and then I

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Speaker 1: went to the one that I thought was in New York.

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Speaker 1: Turns out it's in White Plains, right, two very difficult

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Speaker 1: hours away from Yeah, and there was no there was

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Speaker 1: like no train. So I went to I think New

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Speaker 1: York the entire time I was there, but I didn't stay.

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Speaker 1: I dropped out and moved back to LA and waited

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Speaker 1: on tables forever.

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Speaker 2: So Suny purchase one of the state universities of New

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Speaker 2: York and a very good arts school.

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Speaker 3: Lots of friends that went there.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, but I know, I I know what you

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Speaker 2: mean back then, like if someone wasn't coming to your

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Speaker 2: high school to recruit you for school, like you didn't

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Speaker 2: know about it unless you saw it in movies and TV,

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Speaker 2: and yeah, you know, I get it. So you leave

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Speaker 2: because you are not feeling it what's going on? I didn't.

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Speaker 1: I didn't like the program, to be honest. I felt

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Speaker 1: like it was going through a transitional time. The work

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Speaker 1: that I saw I wasn't that crazy about. And I

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Speaker 1: had just met an acting teacher before I left for school,

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Speaker 1: and this was my acting teacher's name was Roy London,

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Speaker 1: and he was a major influence in my life. And

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Speaker 1: I just thought he was magic, and I really felt

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Speaker 1: a strong pull, and I thought, if I'm not, if

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Speaker 1: I don't really want to be a stage actress, and

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Speaker 1: I realized that it's not really what I wanted to do.

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Speaker 1: I grew up in the tradition of like Meryl Streep

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Speaker 1: and Stacy's Basic and Denver Winger and all these people,

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Speaker 1: and I I grew up in la and I really

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Speaker 1: liked the camera. And I even knew then I really

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Speaker 1: liked the camera, and so I went back and studied

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Speaker 1: with Roy, and I really dug in. I was like,

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Speaker 1: really really into the class, and it was kind of

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Speaker 1: my college and it was a lot of fun. It

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Speaker 1: was really.

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Speaker 3: Probably a better education than.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. I mean, if I were to do it now,

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Speaker 1: if I could look at my young self and I

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Speaker 1: had all the resources and the parental guidance and all

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Speaker 1: of that stuff, I think I would have really enjoyed

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Speaker 1: going to a university and acting there. I think that

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Speaker 1: would have been probably a better fit for me. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: And I think I would have known my like my

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Speaker 1: history a little bit better than I do now. My

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Speaker 1: kids are doing this thing now where they're like, mom,

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Speaker 1: look at this math. Do you get this? I'm like, no, no, bitch,

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Speaker 1: I do not get it, Like, don't you.

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Speaker 2: Mean to me? No? No, And they're doing new math now,

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Speaker 2: and so I can't even help him do alf that

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Speaker 2: maybe I could do if I knew how they were

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Speaker 2: teaching him how to do it.

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Speaker 3: But I don't even I can't even.

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Speaker 1: Do that anymore.

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Speaker 2: It's crazy.

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Speaker 1: It's not for us. It's not for us.

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Speaker 3: Not for us.

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Speaker 2: Do you know? My son will be like, this is

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Speaker 2: a terrible tangent, But he just learned about nine to eleven.

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Speaker 2: And I lived nine to eleven in New York City

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Speaker 2: and I have a lot of associations with it, including

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Speaker 2: a whole stack of photographs that I took that day

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Speaker 2: in the city, which I have not opened since then.

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Speaker 2: My son is like, can we talk about nine to eleven?

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Speaker 2: And I know you've got some stuff And I said, yeah,

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Speaker 2: I have photographs. He goes, are they in black and white?

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Speaker 2: I go what I said? What he said, Well, yeah, I.

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Speaker 3: Was black and white back then, right. I'm like, in.

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Speaker 2: Two thousand and what your grandparents have colored photo? What

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Speaker 2: the weirdest thing i'd ever heard, I ever heard. But yeah,

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Speaker 2: I mean they yeah, yeah, yeah, we're just old.

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Speaker 3: Okay.

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Speaker 2: So do you find it easy or hard to break

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Speaker 2: in once you're back in LA you're studying with Roy?

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Speaker 2: How is it breaking in?

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Speaker 1: It's impossible, It's impossible. It's every day obsession. It's scene

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Speaker 1: work and auditions and bringing clothes in your car and

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Speaker 1: going to Studio City and then going to Burbank and

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Speaker 1: then going back to Hollywood and then going to take

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Speaker 1: a nap, and then going to your restaurant and calling

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Speaker 1: in on your machine and realizing you didn't get the

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Speaker 1: part and crying in the bathroom. I mean, you just

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Speaker 1: copy and paste that for ten years, and that's basically

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Speaker 1: what I did. And I worked a fair amount. I

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Speaker 1: got close enough to really important things and got wonderful

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Speaker 1: feedback and connections, and that I knew.

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Speaker 2: I was.

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Speaker 1: Good and I knew I was in the right field. Ye,

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Speaker 1: But I couldn't really get anybody to give me a

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Speaker 1: significant chance. And I did. I worked a little bit, yes, right,

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Speaker 1: And I had wonderful support from wonderful casting directors, which

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Speaker 1: is something that's kind of I mean, I guess it

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Speaker 1: still exists. But you never meet the people, So how

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Speaker 1: much can they really love you? How much can they

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Speaker 1: feel like like, yeah, like really going like going out

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Speaker 1: of their way for you when they've never like seen

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Speaker 1: your face in person, right, they've never like hug given

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Speaker 1: you a hug or shut your hand, you know.

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Speaker 2: I mean, so you hear a lot of well, I

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Speaker 2: hear a lot of that sort of still exists in

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Speaker 2: theater and especially on Broadway, where everything's just concentrated in

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Speaker 2: one place. You were meeting casting directors regularly seen for

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Speaker 2: other jobs, and if you have a good relationship with

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Speaker 2: a casting team for a show, they will go out

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Speaker 2: of their way, they'll recommend you for the next show.

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Speaker 2: But we also talked to a lot of actors, film

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Speaker 2: television actors who say the same thing, that they're auditioning

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Speaker 2: over a zoom. They don't make these relationships anymore that

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Speaker 2: can make or break a job, and.

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Speaker 3: It's just it's so.

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Speaker 2: It's just such a static kind of experience.

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Speaker 1: Now, Yeah, yeah, Well, I think that the richness that

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Speaker 1: I had from just hammering at it for you know,

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Speaker 1: for ten years, that kind of made me who I am.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, And I.

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Speaker 1: Don't know that kids are going to have that kind

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Speaker 1: of resilience that I think I had from that in

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Speaker 1: a certain sense of pride, like every dollar I've made,

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Speaker 1: I've made myself. Every job I got was because I

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Speaker 1: did the work and sacrificed and whatever. And obviously there's

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Speaker 1: luck involved, of course, but yeah, but I worked really hard.

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Speaker 1: I really did, and I worked too hard. I wish

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Speaker 1: I had spent more time having fun and being young

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Speaker 1: and going out, but I, you know, I was really

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Speaker 1: serious and yeah, and I took it really seriously, and

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Speaker 1: you know, and it paid off. I mean, when I

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Speaker 1: met Aaron and Tommy, it was kind of a culmination

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Speaker 1: of several different relationships the casting director, the producer John

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Speaker 1: Tommy and Aaron, who I had worked for briefly on

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Speaker 1: Sports Night, Right, all of these things coming together that

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Speaker 1: after many many years, and then everybody kind of trusted

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Speaker 1: me because they had known me in all these different

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Speaker 1: different ways. And it wasn't a very big part either,

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Speaker 1: So it wasn't like Allison's part or Brad's part, where

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Speaker 1: you know, I didn't test, I didn't do anything. I

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Speaker 1: just I just auditioned for them.

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Speaker 2: So oh okay, well, yeah, I was going to ask

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Speaker 2: that because I know, you know, you get, you get

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Speaker 2: some TV movies, you get a murder she wrote an er,

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Speaker 2: and then you get an episode of Sports Night. Uh,

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Speaker 2: one of Aaron's shows before The West Wing. I love

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Speaker 2: that show too.

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Speaker 3: How did that?

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Speaker 2: How did that come to you? And then how did

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Speaker 2: the West Wing come to you?

402
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Speaker 1: Well? Actually, it's funny. I don't really I don't know

403
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Speaker 1: that I've ever even really told a story before publicly.

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Speaker 2: That was the best words.

405
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Speaker 3: I've never told this story before. Fantastic.

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Speaker 1: Go no, I think so someone might say, oh, no,

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Speaker 1: she's We've heard it twelve times. I like I have

408
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Speaker 1: like other mother brain.

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Speaker 2: You know.

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Speaker 1: So I had a roommate, Bonnie Zane, who is still

411
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Speaker 1: my friend and wonderful and okay, she was the casting

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Speaker 1: director of She did a lot of TV shows, a

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Speaker 1: lot of really good comedies, and I was like busting

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Speaker 1: my ass in the restaurant. I was a hostess in

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Speaker 1: a restaurant at the time, and she never brought me

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Speaker 1: in on anything, and I was always like, dude, I've

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Speaker 1: lived with you for like three years. We went through

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Speaker 1: that giant an earthquake together, you know, like like I thought,

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Speaker 1: I meant something, Wow, we are bonded, Like why have

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Speaker 1: you never brought me in on anything. And she literally

421
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Speaker 1: like never brought me in and I never could understand it.

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Speaker 1: And I thought, okay, that's just her thing. Fine if Annie,

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Speaker 1: if you're listening, I love you. And then I swear

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Speaker 1: to you. The day before she moved out, she said, oh,

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Speaker 1: I have an audition for you. It's this thing I'm

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Speaker 1: doing called Sports Night, and I think she left me

427
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Speaker 1: the sides, and I had the audition the next morning.

428
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Speaker 1: I didn't know it was Aaron Sorkin that wrote it, okay,

429
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Speaker 1: because it was so fast. I just got the sides.

430
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Speaker 1: I didn't get the script. I didn't do anything. Yeah,

431
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Speaker 1: And there was this big, beautifully written kind of speech

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Speaker 1: and I thought, this isn't funny. This isn't funny. I

433
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Speaker 1: don't get this. This isn't funny. And then I kept

434
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Speaker 1: trying to find jokes in it, and I was like,

435
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Speaker 1: I can't find a joke. So then I worked on

436
00:22:59,760 --> 00:23:01,439
Speaker 1: a and I said, you know, and I'm just going

437
00:23:01,480 --> 00:23:04,800
Speaker 1: to do it straight because I don't think this is

438
00:23:04,880 --> 00:23:06,520
Speaker 1: a joke. I don't get it, but I'm just going

439
00:23:06,600 --> 00:23:08,560
Speaker 1: to do it straight. Yeah, And then I did that,

440
00:23:09,080 --> 00:23:11,560
Speaker 1: and so it was Bonnie was the one who who

441
00:23:11,600 --> 00:23:13,840
Speaker 1: introduced me to Aaron and Tommy, and then I went

442
00:23:13,840 --> 00:23:16,720
Speaker 1: in and there's Aaron Sorkin and I was like, holy shit.

443
00:23:16,840 --> 00:23:18,920
Speaker 1: I had no idea that it was going to be

444
00:23:18,960 --> 00:23:22,280
Speaker 1: Aaron and Tommy Shlammy. And it was so exciting back

445
00:23:22,280 --> 00:23:23,800
Speaker 1: in the day because you'd go in and it's like

446
00:23:24,000 --> 00:23:26,280
Speaker 1: you'd walk in and it's like, oh, Steven Spielberg's here

447
00:23:26,720 --> 00:23:30,560
Speaker 1: or oh, you know wherever it, and you really it

448
00:23:30,640 --> 00:23:34,679
Speaker 1: really felt like you were moving forward, even if you

449
00:23:34,880 --> 00:23:38,000
Speaker 1: weren't getting the jobs. It was like you were in

450
00:23:38,040 --> 00:23:40,960
Speaker 1: the room with people and now you have no kids,

451
00:23:40,960 --> 00:23:42,960
Speaker 1: they have no idea where their tapes go, who sees

452
00:23:42,960 --> 00:23:46,159
Speaker 1: them what, It's just like it's like going into the void.

453
00:23:46,720 --> 00:23:52,040
Speaker 1: But then I I and this Tommy have has said,

454
00:23:52,040 --> 00:23:56,920
Speaker 1: which Tommy cried, Tommy Shlammy cried when I did my

455
00:23:56,920 --> 00:23:59,359
Speaker 1: my am oh my thing, and it was like it

456
00:23:59,400 --> 00:24:01,760
Speaker 1: was just very naive. The whole thing was very naive

457
00:24:01,800 --> 00:24:05,040
Speaker 1: and very sweet and yeah, and then yeah, I got

458
00:24:05,040 --> 00:24:07,080
Speaker 1: that and it was a week of work and it

459
00:24:07,160 --> 00:24:11,560
Speaker 1: was lovely. And then a while passed and then I

460
00:24:11,600 --> 00:24:16,040
Speaker 1: got the audition for Donna and it was a everyone

461
00:24:16,080 --> 00:24:18,320
Speaker 1: knows this. I auditioned for CJ first, and then I

462
00:24:18,320 --> 00:24:20,320
Speaker 1: didn't get that. And then they called me and said,

463
00:24:20,359 --> 00:24:22,680
Speaker 1: you want to audition for this other part and it's

464
00:24:22,720 --> 00:24:25,919
Speaker 1: not a regular it's a small part. And I said okay,

465
00:24:26,040 --> 00:24:28,760
Speaker 1: and and then I did and I got it.

466
00:24:30,200 --> 00:24:37,640
Speaker 2: Were you worried about the dialogue? No, never, Most actors

467
00:24:38,280 --> 00:24:42,120
Speaker 2: fear Aaron's dialogue because it's great, it's quick, it's long.

468
00:24:43,600 --> 00:24:48,560
Speaker 1: You know. The thing about it is that it's just

469
00:24:48,760 --> 00:24:55,199
Speaker 1: really really beautiful. The emotional thread and the connection in

470
00:24:55,240 --> 00:24:59,160
Speaker 1: the scene is a very usually quite meaningful, beautiful connection.

471
00:25:00,080 --> 00:25:03,000
Speaker 1: And if you don't worry about the words, you have

472
00:25:03,080 --> 00:25:06,040
Speaker 1: to make it about the scene and what's going on

473
00:25:06,080 --> 00:25:08,919
Speaker 1: in the scene. And then the words just happened. I

474
00:25:08,920 --> 00:25:12,119
Speaker 1: don't think any of us ever thought, oh, we just

475
00:25:12,160 --> 00:25:15,200
Speaker 1: have to do this really fast. And people would always

476
00:25:15,200 --> 00:25:17,920
Speaker 1: audition and call me and say, I'm auditioning for your show.

477
00:25:19,160 --> 00:25:21,240
Speaker 1: Should I just like, I just feel really nervous. Should

478
00:25:21,240 --> 00:25:22,200
Speaker 1: I just do it really fast?

479
00:25:22,600 --> 00:25:22,879
Speaker 2: Yeah?

480
00:25:22,880 --> 00:25:26,320
Speaker 1: And I'm like, no, just be good, don't do it

481
00:25:26,359 --> 00:25:29,480
Speaker 1: really fast just because yea, and make it real. And

482
00:25:30,440 --> 00:25:33,080
Speaker 1: I mean Richard Schiff wasn't fast, you know what I mean?

483
00:25:33,160 --> 00:25:36,040
Speaker 1: He was he was Richard Schiff yeaes Toby.

484
00:25:37,000 --> 00:25:40,760
Speaker 2: Yeah, we interviewed Bradley Whitford last season and he talked

485
00:25:40,760 --> 00:25:43,800
Speaker 2: about how hard that show was to do the schedule.

486
00:25:43,359 --> 00:25:47,600
Speaker 3: In the hours, and how hard it was on Aaron too.

487
00:25:48,160 --> 00:25:51,280
Speaker 2: Yeah, also how much he loved it obviously, but just

488
00:25:51,280 --> 00:25:52,600
Speaker 2: that it was demanding, rigorous.

489
00:25:52,680 --> 00:25:54,000
Speaker 3: Yeah, is that how you felt as well?

490
00:25:54,400 --> 00:25:58,600
Speaker 1: No, I thought it was awesome. I loved every minute,

491
00:26:00,040 --> 00:26:04,320
Speaker 1: but also I didn't so for them. Yes, Aaron, I

492
00:26:04,320 --> 00:26:06,199
Speaker 1: don't know how he did it. He tortured himself. He

493
00:26:06,200 --> 00:26:09,520
Speaker 1: probably could have written less, that's what he said. Yeah,

494
00:26:09,680 --> 00:26:14,560
Speaker 1: And Brad was kind of the lead, and so they

495
00:26:14,640 --> 00:26:16,960
Speaker 1: had a lot to do all the time. I always

496
00:26:17,000 --> 00:26:19,200
Speaker 1: wanted more. I couldn't get enough because I was like

497
00:26:19,600 --> 00:26:21,159
Speaker 1: a kid in the candy shop and I had a

498
00:26:21,160 --> 00:26:24,800
Speaker 1: wonderful role, but you know, sometimes I'd have like a

499
00:26:24,920 --> 00:26:27,199
Speaker 1: couple of little scenes and I would be like, and

500
00:26:27,240 --> 00:26:29,720
Speaker 1: then I'd have something a lot, and it was just

501
00:26:30,400 --> 00:26:34,080
Speaker 1: I was just always, you know, most actors just want more.

502
00:26:34,600 --> 00:26:40,159
Speaker 1: And Brad, I remember Brad, he said, I mean, this

503
00:26:40,240 --> 00:26:41,719
Speaker 1: is one of those I don't know. Well, I'll tell

504
00:26:41,760 --> 00:26:45,800
Speaker 1: you this. So Brad we had he had a season

505
00:26:45,840 --> 00:26:48,439
Speaker 1: I can't remember which season it was, but it was

506
00:26:48,480 --> 00:26:50,800
Speaker 1: like he was hammered. He had so much stuff to do.

507
00:26:50,920 --> 00:26:53,320
Speaker 1: He was he was in everything for like weeks and

508
00:26:53,359 --> 00:26:57,600
Speaker 1: weeks and weeks, and I think that and he was

509
00:26:57,640 --> 00:27:01,719
Speaker 1: complaining and he was like falling apart. But you know,

510
00:27:02,080 --> 00:27:05,000
Speaker 1: always great, always Brad doing a great job. Totally a pro.

511
00:27:05,160 --> 00:27:08,200
Speaker 1: But you could tell it was really it was really

512
00:27:08,200 --> 00:27:11,399
Speaker 1: a lot of work. And he had young kids. And

513
00:27:12,520 --> 00:27:15,560
Speaker 1: then they came to him and said, I I remember

514
00:27:15,640 --> 00:27:18,000
Speaker 1: them coming to him and saying, we're gonna we're going

515
00:27:18,080 --> 00:27:21,440
Speaker 1: to write you less like we've got a whole storyline.

516
00:27:21,440 --> 00:27:25,000
Speaker 1: We're going to write you. And I'm pretty sure he's like, no, no,

517
00:27:25,800 --> 00:27:28,119
Speaker 1: don't no, no, I'm good, don't do that.

518
00:27:28,640 --> 00:27:29,119
Speaker 2: Never mind.

519
00:27:32,040 --> 00:27:36,879
Speaker 1: That kind of says it all about actors right there. Yes, yeah,

520
00:27:37,080 --> 00:27:38,639
Speaker 1: they all want to be the star of the show.

521
00:27:50,240 --> 00:27:56,720
Speaker 2: So you're filming the seventh season when John Spencer unexpectedly

522
00:27:56,760 --> 00:27:58,800
Speaker 2: dies and I know that was a huge blow to

523
00:27:58,840 --> 00:28:00,919
Speaker 2: the cast and crew. What did it What did that

524
00:28:00,920 --> 00:28:03,840
Speaker 2: feel like when you found that out?

525
00:28:05,200 --> 00:28:09,480
Speaker 1: You know, I think it was just like the ending

526
00:28:09,520 --> 00:28:11,959
Speaker 1: of the show in a way. We just kind of

527
00:28:12,000 --> 00:28:17,000
Speaker 1: all felt like, oh okay, well, time to go home,

528
00:28:17,480 --> 00:28:20,600
Speaker 1: you know, time to go home. And Brad, I remember,

529
00:28:20,600 --> 00:28:22,439
Speaker 1: Brad was the one that told me. He called me

530
00:28:22,720 --> 00:28:26,119
Speaker 1: and and told me, and I was in the car

531
00:28:26,240 --> 00:28:29,920
Speaker 1: and and and then we all, you know, we all

532
00:28:29,960 --> 00:28:34,440
Speaker 1: got together that night, as I remember, and and we

533
00:28:34,560 --> 00:28:39,360
Speaker 1: just really treasured him, and and I think all of

534
00:28:39,400 --> 00:28:44,720
Speaker 1: us individually treasured him. And it felt like it was

535
00:28:44,760 --> 00:28:47,440
Speaker 1: just the beginning of the winding down of the show.

536
00:28:47,720 --> 00:28:50,080
Speaker 1: And I think it was we were kind of moving

537
00:28:50,080 --> 00:28:54,040
Speaker 1: toward that direction anyway. I think they always envisioned it

538
00:28:54,080 --> 00:28:58,240
Speaker 1: being about that many seasons, so so yeah, it was.

539
00:28:58,600 --> 00:29:01,400
Speaker 1: It was. It was good. It was time to time

540
00:29:01,440 --> 00:29:02,600
Speaker 1: to wind it wind it up.

541
00:29:03,680 --> 00:29:07,800
Speaker 3: Were you worried at all about what's next for you?

542
00:29:09,440 --> 00:29:19,320
Speaker 1: Sure? Yeah, I still am. I'm just still like, what's

543
00:29:19,360 --> 00:29:21,280
Speaker 1: going to happen after the West Wing? Oh, I don't know.

544
00:29:22,440 --> 00:29:24,920
Speaker 2: Years laturns. After the West Wing, I'd have to talk

545
00:29:24,920 --> 00:29:28,520
Speaker 2: about we have to talk about Amber Fry because I

546
00:29:28,640 --> 00:29:30,720
Speaker 2: walked one witness for the real plos cute.

547
00:29:30,800 --> 00:29:33,440
Speaker 3: It was so good, Janelle, No, you were so good.

548
00:29:35,760 --> 00:29:37,080
Speaker 2: How did that role come to you?

549
00:29:38,320 --> 00:29:40,600
Speaker 1: How did it come to me? They asked me to

550
00:29:40,640 --> 00:29:45,240
Speaker 1: do it? And and Mary McCormick talked me into it.

551
00:29:46,080 --> 00:29:48,560
Speaker 2: What how did Mary McCormick talk you into it?

552
00:29:49,240 --> 00:29:51,880
Speaker 1: Because I didn't think I should do it. It seemed

553
00:29:51,960 --> 00:29:53,600
Speaker 1: cheesy and I didn't want to do it, and I

554
00:29:53,680 --> 00:29:59,120
Speaker 1: was nervous because West Wing is so so yeah, and

555
00:29:59,160 --> 00:30:01,760
Speaker 1: I thought, oh, this cheesy. And it was kind of

556
00:30:01,800 --> 00:30:06,960
Speaker 1: the beginning of like the whole It wasn't quite weren't

557
00:30:07,000 --> 00:30:10,320
Speaker 1: we weren't into social media yet, but it was kind

558
00:30:10,400 --> 00:30:16,120
Speaker 1: of the beginning of like this sort of moment where

559
00:30:17,200 --> 00:30:20,560
Speaker 1: all of the country would focus on one kind of

560
00:30:21,200 --> 00:30:26,240
Speaker 1: sortid story. And we had gone through Bill and all

561
00:30:26,280 --> 00:30:28,640
Speaker 1: that stuff, and I think it was just kind of

562
00:30:28,680 --> 00:30:31,720
Speaker 1: sorted and really really huge. And she had this gigantic

563
00:30:31,760 --> 00:30:35,520
Speaker 1: book that sold like eight gazillion copies, and I think

564
00:30:35,600 --> 00:30:41,600
Speaker 1: that it seemed like if a gazillion people watched the show,

565
00:30:41,760 --> 00:30:44,400
Speaker 1: it would have been really good for me. And that

566
00:30:44,560 --> 00:30:48,920
Speaker 1: was the strategy, really, And yeah, and the pay was good.

567
00:30:49,000 --> 00:30:52,120
Speaker 1: I wasn't getting like a ton of other offers, and

568
00:30:52,800 --> 00:30:56,440
Speaker 1: it seemed like a risky but a good thing to do.

569
00:30:57,120 --> 00:30:59,640
Speaker 1: And yeah, it was fine. It wasn't one of my

570
00:30:59,760 --> 00:31:04,920
Speaker 1: great memories as an actress, but I can, for some

571
00:31:04,960 --> 00:31:09,480
Speaker 1: weird reason, Aaron Sorkin loves this, loves that. That movie.

572
00:31:11,120 --> 00:31:13,920
Speaker 1: Why he always talks about it with me when when

573
00:31:13,920 --> 00:31:14,560
Speaker 1: I see him.

574
00:31:16,040 --> 00:31:18,000
Speaker 2: Well, I gotta tell you a lot of people watched it.

575
00:31:18,080 --> 00:31:20,560
Speaker 3: I remember watching it. It was really good.

576
00:31:20,960 --> 00:31:24,080
Speaker 2: But I wondered, I don't know this, did you Did

577
00:31:24,080 --> 00:31:26,600
Speaker 2: you work with Amber? Was she involved in this project?

578
00:31:27,680 --> 00:31:29,560
Speaker 1: I talked to her on the phone, but no, I

579
00:31:29,600 --> 00:31:30,760
Speaker 1: never I never worked with her.

580
00:31:30,880 --> 00:31:32,840
Speaker 3: Yeah, do you know was she happy with the depiction?

581
00:31:32,920 --> 00:31:33,280
Speaker 2: Do you know?

582
00:31:34,240 --> 00:31:37,040
Speaker 1: I don't know. I really don't know. I just talked

583
00:31:37,080 --> 00:31:40,320
Speaker 1: to her when we Yeah, I talked her the beginning,

584
00:31:40,360 --> 00:31:41,120
Speaker 1: and then that was it.

585
00:31:42,840 --> 00:31:45,120
Speaker 2: I mean, we were just all really captivated by that case.

586
00:31:45,120 --> 00:31:47,760
Speaker 2: And I know what you mean, like, yeah, we got

587
00:31:47,800 --> 00:31:51,800
Speaker 2: really we got really into it. There's just there's a

588
00:31:51,800 --> 00:31:54,280
Speaker 2: lot of people today who don't believe that Scott Peterson

589
00:31:55,160 --> 00:31:56,320
Speaker 2: did that, which.

590
00:31:56,120 --> 00:32:01,120
Speaker 1: Is yeah, fascinating. Yeah, Aaron, Actually the last time I

591
00:32:01,160 --> 00:32:02,920
Speaker 1: saw him, I hadn't seen him in a really long time,

592
00:32:02,920 --> 00:32:04,800
Speaker 1: and like the first thing he asked me when I

593
00:32:04,800 --> 00:32:07,600
Speaker 1: saw him was if I thought Scott Peterson did it?

594
00:32:07,840 --> 00:32:10,640
Speaker 1: And I'm like, what are you talking about, Aaron? I mean,

595
00:32:12,240 --> 00:32:13,440
Speaker 1: what are you talking about?

596
00:32:13,960 --> 00:32:17,640
Speaker 2: Maybe we're going to get an Aaron Sorkin Scott Peterson movie.

597
00:32:18,440 --> 00:32:20,320
Speaker 1: Yeah. Maybe maybe because he's.

598
00:32:20,200 --> 00:32:21,880
Speaker 2: So interested in it. Oh, I'll have to ask him

599
00:32:21,880 --> 00:32:27,080
Speaker 2: about it. That's great. What TV do you watch today?

600
00:32:28,000 --> 00:32:31,960
Speaker 1: I watched, well, I watched this thing that I'm gonna

601
00:32:32,000 --> 00:32:35,440
Speaker 1: have to google while I'm talking to you. It's this

602
00:32:36,680 --> 00:32:42,880
Speaker 1: Jacob Elod thing, this Australian thing, Jacob aldilt Elo d elo.

603
00:32:42,680 --> 00:32:45,320
Speaker 2: D isn't it it's a lordie but they're fine, Okay,

604
00:32:45,320 --> 00:32:46,360
Speaker 2: it's a LORDI yep.

605
00:32:46,520 --> 00:32:52,680
Speaker 1: That was really beautiful. It's about World War two and

606
00:32:53,040 --> 00:32:56,400
Speaker 1: Australians that were kept as prisoners of war in Japan.

607
00:32:57,920 --> 00:33:01,160
Speaker 1: And it was just very beautiful, very very very good.

608
00:33:02,000 --> 00:33:03,560
Speaker 1: It's called The.

609
00:33:03,480 --> 00:33:06,640
Speaker 2: Narrow Road to the Deep North. I got it.

610
00:33:06,680 --> 00:33:09,360
Speaker 4: I got it, and I highly recommend. Okay one season

611
00:33:09,400 --> 00:33:12,560
Speaker 4: twenty twenty five. I see, Yeah, it's very good. It's

612
00:33:12,640 --> 00:33:16,720
Speaker 4: very beautiful. It's kind of it's very very beautiful. And

613
00:33:16,760 --> 00:33:19,760
Speaker 4: I'm watching a lot of Dexter because my thirteen year

614
00:33:19,760 --> 00:33:25,520
Speaker 4: old son, it's really watching Dexter, which is kind of disturbing,

615
00:33:25,640 --> 00:33:31,320
Speaker 4: but he really likes it. We're not very I don't know,

616
00:33:31,520 --> 00:33:34,280
Speaker 4: there's We've watched a lot of things that are not

617
00:33:34,480 --> 00:33:35,920
Speaker 4: that appropriate in my house.

618
00:33:36,720 --> 00:33:39,360
Speaker 1: Yeah, we really have. I don't know what happened. I

619
00:33:39,360 --> 00:33:42,280
Speaker 1: have two boys, and my husband is a film composer,

620
00:33:42,920 --> 00:33:46,720
Speaker 1: and he loves movies, and we all love movies, and

621
00:33:46,720 --> 00:33:50,640
Speaker 1: and and I think if it's a good movie, I think.

622
00:33:50,680 --> 00:33:54,080
Speaker 1: My husband sometimes will be like, yeah, we watched so

623
00:33:54,160 --> 00:33:56,480
Speaker 1: and so, and I'll be like, why did you watch that?

624
00:33:56,600 --> 00:33:59,720
Speaker 1: But sometimes I'll suggest something like from the eighties, you know,

625
00:33:59,760 --> 00:34:01,640
Speaker 1: when you do that and you're like, oh, let's watch

626
00:34:02,080 --> 00:34:04,680
Speaker 1: pretty in pink or something, and then it's like there's

627
00:34:04,680 --> 00:34:07,160
Speaker 1: a date rape and there's a you know whatever, like

628
00:34:07,200 --> 00:34:11,960
Speaker 1: all this crazy stuff that we thought was okay back then. Totally,

629
00:34:12,120 --> 00:34:24,200
Speaker 1: there's all these moments that you regret.

630
00:34:28,280 --> 00:34:31,719
Speaker 2: You live in Brooklyn, right you're raising your family in Brooklyn.

631
00:34:32,880 --> 00:34:34,160
Speaker 3: I left the city before I.

632
00:34:34,120 --> 00:34:36,200
Speaker 2: Had my son, and I always wonder how different he

633
00:34:36,239 --> 00:34:39,479
Speaker 2: would be if I had stayed in the city because

634
00:34:39,480 --> 00:34:41,239
Speaker 2: I lived in the city for a long time. Do

635
00:34:41,280 --> 00:34:43,359
Speaker 2: you ever think about that, like who your kids would

636
00:34:43,360 --> 00:34:45,560
Speaker 2: be if if they'd grown up like in the suburbs

637
00:34:45,640 --> 00:34:46,960
Speaker 2: or like at a farm.

638
00:34:48,360 --> 00:34:55,160
Speaker 1: Not really, although you know, I wonder sometimes if they

639
00:34:55,200 --> 00:35:02,399
Speaker 1: would have just been outside more. But my friends who

640
00:35:02,440 --> 00:35:05,960
Speaker 1: live in the suburbs. They're all their kids wanted, especially boys.

641
00:35:05,960 --> 00:35:07,440
Speaker 1: They all want to do the same thing, which is

642
00:35:07,440 --> 00:35:10,800
Speaker 1: they all want to stay inside and play video games

643
00:35:10,840 --> 00:35:14,560
Speaker 1: and watch YouTube. And I'm not sure that we're it's

644
00:35:14,600 --> 00:35:19,239
Speaker 1: a location thing anymore, you know. In Yeah, But and

645
00:35:19,320 --> 00:35:23,280
Speaker 1: at the same time, my kids like take the subway

646
00:35:23,320 --> 00:35:28,399
Speaker 1: by themselves and talk to strangers on the street and

647
00:35:30,120 --> 00:35:33,799
Speaker 1: navigate a lot of interesting things that I don't think

648
00:35:33,880 --> 00:35:37,440
Speaker 1: other people have to navigate growing up in a in

649
00:35:37,480 --> 00:35:41,360
Speaker 1: a in the suburbs. Yes, and they're exposed to a

650
00:35:41,400 --> 00:35:43,440
Speaker 1: lot of a lot of really cool things too, a

651
00:35:43,440 --> 00:35:47,000
Speaker 1: lot of art and a lot of but mostly just

652
00:35:47,080 --> 00:35:50,719
Speaker 1: the street life is what makes it so unique. And

653
00:35:50,760 --> 00:35:53,480
Speaker 1: now they're fifteen and thirteen, and I've kind of stopped

654
00:35:53,520 --> 00:35:57,239
Speaker 1: worrying about who they would become and would it be

655
00:35:57,280 --> 00:36:00,160
Speaker 1: better in a different place, you know, we're like big

656
00:36:00,239 --> 00:36:04,640
Speaker 1: grass is always greener people over here. So I think

657
00:36:04,640 --> 00:36:07,160
Speaker 1: that that's settled down a lot over the past year,

658
00:36:07,360 --> 00:36:09,919
Speaker 1: just because when you have a kid that's in tenth

659
00:36:10,000 --> 00:36:13,719
Speaker 1: grade and and you know there you are where you're

660
00:36:13,719 --> 00:36:15,719
Speaker 1: going to stay there until they graduate, So.

661
00:36:16,120 --> 00:36:19,719
Speaker 2: Right, yeah, for sure, but for sure, Yeah, But.

662
00:36:19,760 --> 00:36:22,120
Speaker 1: I think it's an exciting place to grow up in

663
00:36:22,160 --> 00:36:25,279
Speaker 1: Brooklyn is really it's very sweet where we live.

664
00:36:25,719 --> 00:36:32,560
Speaker 2: So yeah, yeah, I think about, you know, the environments

665
00:36:32,560 --> 00:36:36,000
Speaker 2: we raise our kid, our kids in and think about

666
00:36:36,000 --> 00:36:38,920
Speaker 2: it all the time. Because my kid, we live in

667
00:36:38,920 --> 00:36:42,920
Speaker 2: the suburbs. We have to expose him to things if

668
00:36:42,920 --> 00:36:45,320
Speaker 2: we want him to be exposed, because he just wouldn't

669
00:36:45,360 --> 00:36:47,040
Speaker 2: be here. And yeah, that's what we do. You know,

670
00:36:47,120 --> 00:36:48,520
Speaker 2: we're in the city. I work in the city. He's

671
00:36:48,520 --> 00:36:50,719
Speaker 2: in the city a lot, but we travel a lot.

672
00:36:52,520 --> 00:36:56,200
Speaker 2: But he's really I don't know if it's because of

673
00:36:56,239 --> 00:36:58,640
Speaker 2: this or it is just who he is, but you know,

674
00:36:58,960 --> 00:37:03,960
Speaker 2: he's very afraid of change. And he's experienced, you know,

675
00:37:04,160 --> 00:37:06,960
Speaker 2: like no change, like not even a little change.

676
00:37:07,080 --> 00:37:10,520
Speaker 3: Right, He's grown up in this house, this town, this school.

677
00:37:10,840 --> 00:37:15,719
Speaker 2: Everything stayed the same to parents, same grandparents. Nothing's happened

678
00:37:17,200 --> 00:37:20,080
Speaker 2: to this kid in his life. Meanwhile, my childhood was

679
00:37:20,120 --> 00:37:22,640
Speaker 2: defined by change. I had marked a thousand times. My

680
00:37:22,719 --> 00:37:25,720
Speaker 2: parents got divorced, then remarried. I was always the new kid.

681
00:37:26,640 --> 00:37:30,759
Speaker 2: It was incredibly unstable. I had great parents, but it

682
00:37:30,800 --> 00:37:35,400
Speaker 2: was an unstable childhood compared to his. Okay, and I

683
00:37:35,400 --> 00:37:38,600
Speaker 2: got I think about, like, what is he's so afraid

684
00:37:38,640 --> 00:37:42,439
Speaker 2: of in terms of change, and maybe in his mind

685
00:37:42,440 --> 00:37:44,560
Speaker 2: he's experienced change and I'm just not aware of it.

686
00:37:44,640 --> 00:37:46,279
Speaker 2: So I asked him one day. I was like, Jack,

687
00:37:46,320 --> 00:37:48,560
Speaker 2: you know, I know you really don't like change, Like

688
00:37:48,600 --> 00:37:51,359
Speaker 2: he never wants us to move from this house. So

689
00:37:51,400 --> 00:37:53,760
Speaker 2: I was like, so, Jack, what's been the biggest change

690
00:37:54,480 --> 00:37:56,120
Speaker 2: you think you've ever experienced?

691
00:37:57,160 --> 00:37:59,880
Speaker 3: And he said so when we got the new couch.

692
00:38:03,440 --> 00:38:07,319
Speaker 2: But yeah, okay, yeah, we're very different, right, And so.

693
00:38:07,360 --> 00:38:09,719
Speaker 1: Does he talk like does he talk about it? Like?

694
00:38:10,200 --> 00:38:12,160
Speaker 1: How do you know he's afraid of change?

695
00:38:12,760 --> 00:38:17,359
Speaker 2: Because if you haven't done any change exactly? He says

696
00:38:17,360 --> 00:38:19,160
Speaker 2: it all the time. Jack, wouldn't it be fun to

697
00:38:19,560 --> 00:38:24,279
Speaker 2: even changes we think would be an upgrade? Absolutely? Not?

698
00:38:24,480 --> 00:38:27,880
Speaker 2: Like we have a dog. He loves the dog. The

699
00:38:27,920 --> 00:38:30,120
Speaker 2: dog's wonderful. Jack, What if we got a new dog.

700
00:38:30,120 --> 00:38:31,560
Speaker 2: I don't want a new dog. We have we have

701
00:38:31,600 --> 00:38:34,879
Speaker 2: a dog. A new dog would be change, But you'd

702
00:38:34,880 --> 00:38:36,799
Speaker 2: love a new dog? No, no, no, no, I'm good

703
00:38:36,800 --> 00:38:40,800
Speaker 2: with exactly how things are right now.

704
00:38:40,719 --> 00:38:42,719
Speaker 3: Right, which you want to be like, that's wonderful.

705
00:38:42,760 --> 00:38:45,879
Speaker 2: We have obviously created a world for him, a life

706
00:38:45,880 --> 00:38:49,280
Speaker 2: for him that he loves. But at the same time,

707
00:38:49,520 --> 00:38:54,279
Speaker 2: I just think, wow, I was raised in change, it

708
00:38:54,360 --> 00:38:59,200
Speaker 2: got very resilient and adapting to it. He's been raised

709
00:38:59,200 --> 00:39:00,239
Speaker 2: in no change.

710
00:39:00,160 --> 00:39:01,120
Speaker 3: Now really fears it.

711
00:39:01,719 --> 00:39:05,560
Speaker 2: And you just wonder like, Okay, maybe this sheltered bubble

712
00:39:05,600 --> 00:39:07,359
Speaker 2: of a life that we thought was going to be

713
00:39:07,920 --> 00:39:10,000
Speaker 2: going to be great and sort of inoculate him from

714
00:39:10,000 --> 00:39:13,800
Speaker 2: my kind of childhood. Maybe it's having an oddly adverse

715
00:39:14,760 --> 00:39:19,120
Speaker 2: effect of making him scared of everything else, which or

716
00:39:19,160 --> 00:39:22,040
Speaker 2: I think he just want to see everything else, or.

717
00:39:22,040 --> 00:39:25,160
Speaker 1: He's just that's his personality. Maybe he's a little rigid

718
00:39:26,080 --> 00:39:28,040
Speaker 1: and and that's just who he is. And if you

719
00:39:28,120 --> 00:39:31,080
Speaker 1: had a whole bunch of kids, you'd be like, oh,

720
00:39:31,160 --> 00:39:34,759
Speaker 1: well that's my little bit more rigid kid. And then

721
00:39:34,840 --> 00:39:37,520
Speaker 1: that the other there's the other one's the wild one,

722
00:39:37,600 --> 00:39:41,320
Speaker 1: and that's the you know, it's it's hard when.

723
00:39:41,120 --> 00:39:42,480
Speaker 2: You have maybe it's just handed.

724
00:39:42,960 --> 00:39:44,880
Speaker 1: Yeah, you have just the one, right.

725
00:39:44,920 --> 00:39:47,680
Speaker 2: I have just the one, so I have no comparison.

726
00:39:47,960 --> 00:39:49,160
Speaker 2: I can't do experiments.

727
00:39:49,760 --> 00:39:51,400
Speaker 3: It's just like it's.

728
00:39:51,200 --> 00:39:53,640
Speaker 1: Just it's just maybe he's just got like a little

729
00:39:53,680 --> 00:39:55,920
Speaker 1: old man soul and he just wants to kind of

730
00:39:56,480 --> 00:39:58,879
Speaker 1: keep things the way they are, and you know, what

731
00:39:59,640 --> 00:40:05,440
Speaker 1: that they thing is that things will happen and he

732
00:40:05,520 --> 00:40:07,719
Speaker 1: will have to change and he will have to take

733
00:40:07,760 --> 00:40:10,440
Speaker 1: on new things because that's life. So if he's what

734
00:40:10,560 --> 00:40:11,960
Speaker 1: like eight or nine years what is he like nine

735
00:40:12,040 --> 00:40:15,160
Speaker 1: years old or ten? Yeah, yeah, he'll get plenty of

736
00:40:15,239 --> 00:40:18,239
Speaker 1: change and oh yeah, because that's life, you know, and

737
00:40:19,040 --> 00:40:21,600
Speaker 1: the world he's going to grow up in. Oh my god,

738
00:40:21,680 --> 00:40:25,239
Speaker 1: God help him not being okay with change. He's going

739
00:40:25,320 --> 00:40:28,720
Speaker 1: to have out twenty five professions before the time he's thirty,

740
00:40:29,400 --> 00:40:31,799
Speaker 1: and like true, like who knows, you know.

741
00:40:32,960 --> 00:40:34,920
Speaker 2: I think about that too, Like I don't even and

742
00:40:34,960 --> 00:40:36,560
Speaker 2: I hear this from a lot of parent friends that

743
00:40:36,600 --> 00:40:38,120
Speaker 2: I have, Like I don't even know how to prepare

744
00:40:38,120 --> 00:40:40,920
Speaker 2: our kids for today, Yeah, because we don't grow up

745
00:40:41,000 --> 00:40:43,960
Speaker 2: with the stuff that they have to deal with I

746
00:40:44,000 --> 00:40:46,360
Speaker 2: know today, And it feels very unsettling.

747
00:40:46,640 --> 00:40:49,120
Speaker 1: Yeah. I think I write a lot about this. And

748
00:40:49,200 --> 00:40:53,040
Speaker 1: the sub stack is that is that like the balance

749
00:40:53,200 --> 00:41:01,080
Speaker 1: between having ideals and having like optimism and and then

750
00:41:01,320 --> 00:41:04,960
Speaker 1: balancing it with reality and the past. Because the past

751
00:41:05,080 --> 00:41:09,560
Speaker 1: was very idealistic. Now it feels very really dystopian. But

752
00:41:10,200 --> 00:41:13,759
Speaker 1: I can tell you from my own kids, they're they're

753
00:41:14,000 --> 00:41:19,400
Speaker 1: they're quite optimistic, and I find it really stunning. You know,

754
00:41:19,520 --> 00:41:21,840
Speaker 1: we were talking. I know, we don't talk about politics,

755
00:41:21,880 --> 00:41:27,200
Speaker 1: but we were taught. They were talking about Zorn and

756
00:41:27,200 --> 00:41:29,560
Speaker 1: and you know, it's a big subject in our house

757
00:41:29,719 --> 00:41:34,239
Speaker 1: because it's it's the mayor. And and my son is

758
00:41:34,440 --> 00:41:38,480
Speaker 1: very My fifteen year old is like, listen, I don't

759
00:41:38,520 --> 00:41:43,200
Speaker 1: know that he has the goods to take care of

760
00:41:43,520 --> 00:41:48,280
Speaker 1: such a complicated city, but let's give him a shot.

761
00:41:48,360 --> 00:41:51,520
Speaker 1: He's so optimistic, and I'm going to be optimistic, and

762
00:41:51,600 --> 00:41:54,400
Speaker 1: I'm going to be and he was like just so sweet,

763
00:41:54,560 --> 00:41:59,280
Speaker 1: and and I think that that you know, they are born,

764
00:41:59,360 --> 00:42:01,680
Speaker 1: and they're into the world that they're born into. We

765
00:42:01,800 --> 00:42:07,600
Speaker 1: all are, and you know, we can't control that for

766
00:42:07,719 --> 00:42:10,759
Speaker 1: them anymore than your parents could could control it for us.

767
00:42:10,800 --> 00:42:12,560
Speaker 1: And they're going to have to figure it out.

768
00:42:12,719 --> 00:42:17,279
Speaker 2: You know, I'm writing about conspiracy theories right now and

769
00:42:17,320 --> 00:42:20,319
Speaker 2: how young boys especially are susceptible to them, and it

770
00:42:20,320 --> 00:42:21,800
Speaker 2: makes me very worried.

771
00:42:22,120 --> 00:42:22,759
Speaker 1: Yeah, me too.

772
00:42:23,760 --> 00:42:26,800
Speaker 2: We were somewhere recently and the ten year old boys,

773
00:42:26,920 --> 00:42:29,080
Speaker 2: not my son because he's not interested in any of this,

774
00:42:29,200 --> 00:42:32,840
Speaker 2: but his little group start talking about Charlie Kirk and

775
00:42:32,920 --> 00:42:36,160
Speaker 2: I was like, hey, you're too young to even know

776
00:42:36,160 --> 00:42:38,280
Speaker 2: who that is. And I don't know why this person's

777
00:42:38,480 --> 00:42:43,520
Speaker 2: you know, in your brain. But I I worry about

778
00:42:43,640 --> 00:42:47,960
Speaker 2: some things with our boys. Oh yeah, particular especially with

779
00:42:48,080 --> 00:42:50,480
Speaker 2: YouTube and oh yeah, no, it's.

780
00:42:50,320 --> 00:42:54,560
Speaker 1: A scourge stuff. Yeah, it really is. And I don't know.

781
00:42:54,880 --> 00:42:59,160
Speaker 1: I mean, I I think that if I were to

782
00:42:59,239 --> 00:43:03,280
Speaker 1: say thing that scares me the most as a parent, it's,

783
00:43:04,560 --> 00:43:06,600
Speaker 1: you know, aside from something terrible happening to my kids,

784
00:43:06,640 --> 00:43:09,440
Speaker 1: not gonna work, that's never gonna happen, but just this

785
00:43:10,040 --> 00:43:12,920
Speaker 1: that their mind is just going to be completely stolen,

786
00:43:13,320 --> 00:43:17,640
Speaker 1: you know, yes, And that's what we're telling me about that.

787
00:43:17,760 --> 00:43:22,080
Speaker 1: But then I also see them growing, okay, and see

788
00:43:22,640 --> 00:43:25,200
Speaker 1: them like my thirteen year old has a very different

789
00:43:26,040 --> 00:43:28,759
Speaker 1: way of processing things than my fifteen year old, And

790
00:43:28,800 --> 00:43:31,200
Speaker 1: my fifteen year old is getting more mature, and his

791
00:43:31,200 --> 00:43:33,880
Speaker 1: mind is getting more mature, and you can see his

792
00:43:34,000 --> 00:43:38,319
Speaker 1: own thoughts and his own opinions and trusting his own

793
00:43:38,400 --> 00:43:41,760
Speaker 1: like knowing what sources to trust and what not to trust.

794
00:43:42,120 --> 00:43:45,480
Speaker 1: And and they're like being raised by the internet. I

795
00:43:45,520 --> 00:43:47,719
Speaker 1: don't know who the hell they're looking at and what

796
00:43:47,800 --> 00:43:50,919
Speaker 1: they're I mean, none of us do. So I think

797
00:43:50,920 --> 00:43:53,759
Speaker 1: The best thing that we've done, my husband and I

798
00:43:53,920 --> 00:43:57,280
Speaker 1: is to really talk about it in a super open

799
00:43:57,320 --> 00:44:00,560
Speaker 1: way about all of it. And and if they say,

800
00:44:00,640 --> 00:44:03,279
Speaker 1: you know, they'll start talking about stuff that I'm like,

801
00:44:03,440 --> 00:44:08,160
Speaker 1: that sounds like internet talk there, that sounds like YouTube talk.

802
00:44:08,760 --> 00:44:11,279
Speaker 1: And I don't challenge them like where did you get

803
00:44:11,320 --> 00:44:13,919
Speaker 1: that from, because it's it's it's like we'll make them

804
00:44:13,960 --> 00:44:17,439
Speaker 1: feel defensive, like they're, hey, I'm in the world. I'm

805
00:44:17,880 --> 00:44:22,160
Speaker 1: I can pay attention to things. But you have to

806
00:44:22,320 --> 00:44:28,240
Speaker 1: kind of reflect back to them constantly what they're talking about.

807
00:44:28,480 --> 00:44:31,920
Speaker 1: And and some of it is not correct, you know.

808
00:44:32,560 --> 00:44:34,840
Speaker 1: But hopefully if they go to a good school and

809
00:44:34,880 --> 00:44:38,320
Speaker 1: they have people talking to them about digital, you know, literacy,

810
00:44:38,520 --> 00:44:41,640
Speaker 1: they'll but but some of it they just they just

811
00:44:41,680 --> 00:44:48,200
Speaker 1: can't help. I see the kids becoming very cynical about

812
00:44:48,440 --> 00:44:52,480
Speaker 1: a lot of the progressive ideas. Not not necessarily my boys,

813
00:44:52,600 --> 00:44:56,640
Speaker 1: but I feel like I noticed this in Brooklyn, like

814
00:44:57,239 --> 00:44:58,840
Speaker 1: that there's a lot of kids that are kind of

815
00:44:58,840 --> 00:45:03,799
Speaker 1: pushing back, which disturbs me because I feel like that

816
00:45:04,200 --> 00:45:07,960
Speaker 1: it's gonna end up making kids more interested in going

817
00:45:08,440 --> 00:45:10,800
Speaker 1: towards that manisphere sort of place.

818
00:45:11,040 --> 00:45:13,799
Speaker 2: Yeah, same, and yeah, and.

819
00:45:13,719 --> 00:45:16,000
Speaker 1: Again I've decided to look at all the boys that

820
00:45:16,040 --> 00:45:18,759
Speaker 1: I know instead of all the boys I don't know,

821
00:45:19,239 --> 00:45:21,520
Speaker 1: and look at the boys that I have instead of

822
00:45:21,560 --> 00:45:25,200
Speaker 1: the ones I fear that I will help, because you know,

823
00:45:26,640 --> 00:45:29,640
Speaker 1: the boys are like the boys in my life and

824
00:45:29,680 --> 00:45:32,320
Speaker 1: my friend's boys. They're all really smart and really great

825
00:45:32,480 --> 00:45:35,239
Speaker 1: and and have girlfriends and are not living in their

826
00:45:35,239 --> 00:45:38,239
Speaker 1: basements and are or boyfriends and you know, and are

827
00:45:38,360 --> 00:45:41,279
Speaker 1: just like living their their their lives and they're they're

828
00:45:41,320 --> 00:45:44,279
Speaker 1: weirdly optimistic, which I God bless them, as we know.

829
00:45:44,520 --> 00:45:48,000
Speaker 2: I know, but like that's incourreaged. No, that's really encouraging

830
00:45:48,040 --> 00:45:51,000
Speaker 2: to hear, because as you know, you know, my son's

831
00:45:51,000 --> 00:45:53,840
Speaker 2: a couple of years behind yours. But I'm very fearful,

832
00:45:53,880 --> 00:45:57,479
Speaker 2: and I'm in this business too, so I can over

833
00:45:57,560 --> 00:46:03,319
Speaker 2: index sometimes how you know, pervasive it is, because for me,

834
00:46:03,400 --> 00:46:06,799
Speaker 2: it just feels like it's everywhere. You're right, like, I know,

835
00:46:06,840 --> 00:46:10,360
Speaker 2: plenty of boys in kids school in town and they're

836
00:46:10,400 --> 00:46:11,120
Speaker 2: doing great and.

837
00:46:11,239 --> 00:46:13,959
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, and you'll see when you get a little

838
00:46:13,960 --> 00:46:16,319
Speaker 1: bit older, you'll see look at all your friends that

839
00:46:16,480 --> 00:46:19,840
Speaker 1: whose boys are going to college and having great time,

840
00:46:20,400 --> 00:46:23,600
Speaker 1: and the boys that are like taking you know, going

841
00:46:23,719 --> 00:46:26,960
Speaker 1: to study music, and so and so and doing this lives,

842
00:46:27,000 --> 00:46:29,719
Speaker 1: living their lives. And I think one of the things

843
00:46:29,760 --> 00:46:31,640
Speaker 1: that's really bad right now in the way that our

844
00:46:31,760 --> 00:46:35,560
Speaker 1: media is kind of set up is that everything's kind

845
00:46:35,560 --> 00:46:40,960
Speaker 1: of an emergency. So right now, it's like, if your

846
00:46:41,000 --> 00:46:47,160
Speaker 1: algorithm is about boys, all you hear about is like boys, boys, boys,

847
00:46:47,280 --> 00:46:49,680
Speaker 1: boys are not doing okay. The boys are not all right.

848
00:46:50,160 --> 00:46:52,560
Speaker 1: And so as a boy mom, you're like, oh my god,

849
00:46:52,760 --> 00:46:56,440
Speaker 1: how do I control that? But it's it's probably not

850
00:46:56,640 --> 00:47:00,200
Speaker 1: any I mean, you know, everything has a tendency to

851
00:47:01,000 --> 00:47:03,319
Speaker 1: show itself to you in your in your phone and

852
00:47:03,360 --> 00:47:06,880
Speaker 1: in your in the algorithm, and just like the trend

853
00:47:07,080 --> 00:47:11,239
Speaker 1: of of what people are worried about, we cycle through

854
00:47:11,239 --> 00:47:13,640
Speaker 1: them and and I don't know, I think you have to.

855
00:47:13,960 --> 00:47:15,719
Speaker 1: I hear you talking a lot about this on your

856
00:47:15,719 --> 00:47:21,640
Speaker 1: podcast about just like protecting yourself from from these elements.

857
00:47:21,719 --> 00:47:23,839
Speaker 1: It's a lot to try to manage, you.

858
00:47:23,800 --> 00:47:26,640
Speaker 2: Know, it really is, and it can yeah, and it

859
00:47:26,640 --> 00:47:30,440
Speaker 2: can be a feedback loop. It doesn't actually help you

860
00:47:30,440 --> 00:47:32,080
Speaker 2: see things, clearly, No, I.

861
00:47:32,000 --> 00:47:33,840
Speaker 1: Don't think it does. Yeah, it's how you have to

862
00:47:33,920 --> 00:47:38,080
Speaker 1: kind of pick and choose how you how you you know,

863
00:47:38,200 --> 00:47:40,360
Speaker 1: consume the news, totally.

864
00:47:41,960 --> 00:47:45,320
Speaker 2: Don't go anywhere more. Off the cup with Janelle Maloney

865
00:47:45,360 --> 00:48:00,000
Speaker 2: after the break. Okay, let's do a lightning round before

866
00:48:00,120 --> 00:48:09,960
Speaker 2: or I let you go. Okay in a West Wing freeboot.

867
00:48:10,000 --> 00:48:11,520
Speaker 2: Where's Donna today? What's she up to?

868
00:48:13,680 --> 00:48:17,680
Speaker 1: I mean, listen, I would pitch for Donna to be president. Sorry, yes,

869
00:48:18,239 --> 00:48:23,200
Speaker 1: we need a female president. And why not Donna? You

870
00:48:23,239 --> 00:48:25,960
Speaker 1: didn't know, You don't know what she She was kind

871
00:48:26,000 --> 00:48:29,160
Speaker 1: of the youngest. You don't know what she did in

872
00:48:29,440 --> 00:48:33,520
Speaker 1: all those years she was on and upward trajectory. She's

873
00:48:33,560 --> 00:48:36,359
Speaker 1: got her kids in college and she's she's maybe she's

874
00:48:36,440 --> 00:48:39,919
Speaker 1: the president, right, So okay, I'll do that. I love

875
00:48:40,040 --> 00:48:41,640
Speaker 1: I was gonna go a little lower and I'm like,

876
00:48:41,719 --> 00:48:43,400
Speaker 1: why Donna's the president?

877
00:48:43,840 --> 00:48:44,120
Speaker 2: Yes?

878
00:48:44,480 --> 00:48:45,319
Speaker 3: Oh, I love that.

879
00:48:46,560 --> 00:48:51,560
Speaker 2: What's your favorite of your husband's compositions.

880
00:48:54,160 --> 00:49:02,719
Speaker 1: Oh that's so nice. I love well. Okay, So this

881
00:49:02,800 --> 00:49:07,360
Speaker 1: one that's out now is K pop Demon Hunters.

882
00:49:08,000 --> 00:49:11,399
Speaker 3: Yes, and he has obsessed with that.

883
00:49:11,640 --> 00:49:14,000
Speaker 1: And everyone's kind of obsessed with that, and I love

884
00:49:14,040 --> 00:49:17,160
Speaker 1: it just because the actual music is incredible. I mean,

885
00:49:17,160 --> 00:49:20,399
Speaker 1: the songs are incredible that the day wrote he didn't

886
00:49:20,400 --> 00:49:22,160
Speaker 1: write the songs, of course, he does he does the

887
00:49:22,960 --> 00:49:27,160
Speaker 1: score score right, But the score is exquisite, but only

888
00:49:27,280 --> 00:49:29,759
Speaker 1: mostly because it was such a fun surprise that we

889
00:49:29,880 --> 00:49:32,520
Speaker 1: just can't believe it. It was like this kind of

890
00:49:32,600 --> 00:49:36,400
Speaker 1: random thing that he did, and it's this gigantic, huge, huge,

891
00:49:36,560 --> 00:49:37,560
Speaker 1: crazy phenomenon.

892
00:49:38,560 --> 00:49:42,640
Speaker 2: I'm sure you well, I don't want to make assumptions,

893
00:49:42,640 --> 00:49:45,439
Speaker 2: but those songs are in my head all day. Yeah.

894
00:49:45,560 --> 00:49:46,640
Speaker 1: Oh, your son likes it.

895
00:49:46,880 --> 00:49:48,400
Speaker 3: Oh, he's it all day.

896
00:49:49,560 --> 00:49:53,520
Speaker 2: Cute, cute, really cute, and they're great songs. I'm not mad.

897
00:49:53,560 --> 00:49:57,280
Speaker 2: There are times when I'm like annoyed by those songs

898
00:49:57,320 --> 00:49:59,840
Speaker 2: he gets obsessed with. These are not annoying. They're wonderful

899
00:50:00,440 --> 00:50:02,719
Speaker 2: and it's a great score. It's a great movie. You

900
00:50:02,760 --> 00:50:03,399
Speaker 2: can listen to.

901
00:50:03,400 --> 00:50:05,000
Speaker 3: Only one album for the rest of your life?

902
00:50:05,040 --> 00:50:05,440
Speaker 2: What is it?

903
00:50:08,760 --> 00:50:13,080
Speaker 1: One album for the rest of my life? Abbey Road?

904
00:50:13,719 --> 00:50:14,879
Speaker 2: Oh my god, that's mine too.

905
00:50:15,239 --> 00:50:16,480
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean I.

906
00:50:16,400 --> 00:50:17,800
Speaker 3: Feel like it's the only correct one.

907
00:50:17,880 --> 00:50:20,440
Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, I mean, what else are you gonna do?

908
00:50:21,120 --> 00:50:22,120
Speaker 2: What else are you going to do?

909
00:50:22,440 --> 00:50:22,680
Speaker 1: Yeah?

910
00:50:22,800 --> 00:50:26,080
Speaker 2: Exactly right, Yeah, exactly right. Perfect.

911
00:50:26,280 --> 00:50:29,720
Speaker 1: Or I might listen to James Taylor's greatest hits.

912
00:50:30,440 --> 00:50:32,040
Speaker 3: Well, that's great because it would just be.

913
00:50:32,040 --> 00:50:36,320
Speaker 1: So soothing or I might listen to Court and Spark.

914
00:50:38,440 --> 00:50:41,080
Speaker 1: I love Jon, but you didn't ask me three different things.

915
00:50:41,120 --> 00:50:41,759
Speaker 1: That's not fair.

916
00:50:42,239 --> 00:50:45,760
Speaker 2: I like all of those answers. I'm sticking with the Beatles.

917
00:50:45,840 --> 00:50:48,160
Speaker 1: You have to go kind of classic and old school.

918
00:50:48,480 --> 00:50:51,000
Speaker 1: You know, you can't be like, yeah, I'm not going

919
00:50:51,040 --> 00:50:52,719
Speaker 1: to listen to Tyler the Creator, you.

920
00:50:52,719 --> 00:50:55,640
Speaker 2: Like take Cray. It's got to be someone who has

921
00:50:55,680 --> 00:50:56,919
Speaker 2: withstood the test of time.

922
00:50:57,040 --> 00:50:59,279
Speaker 1: Yeah, I let your parents listen to Like, it has

923
00:50:59,320 --> 00:51:00,200
Speaker 1: to be something.

924
00:51:00,120 --> 00:51:02,520
Speaker 3: Yeah, okreat what's your favorite meal?

925
00:51:05,520 --> 00:51:09,520
Speaker 1: Well? I really like this thing that I actually wrote

926
00:51:09,520 --> 00:51:12,279
Speaker 1: about in a sub stect called pica gio, which is

927
00:51:12,320 --> 00:51:19,560
Speaker 1: like a Brazilian meal that's me And it's like stewed

928
00:51:19,560 --> 00:51:22,120
Speaker 1: meat and with rice and beans and it's delicious.

929
00:51:22,360 --> 00:51:25,920
Speaker 2: Yep yep. What's something you want to do more of?

930
00:51:28,640 --> 00:51:28,879
Speaker 4: Right?

931
00:51:29,680 --> 00:51:30,200
Speaker 1: And cook?

932
00:51:30,960 --> 00:51:31,320
Speaker 2: Okay?

933
00:51:32,800 --> 00:51:34,160
Speaker 3: What's been your worst vacation?

934
00:51:36,480 --> 00:51:42,680
Speaker 1: My worst vacation, I don't know what's coming to mind

935
00:51:42,800 --> 00:51:47,200
Speaker 1: is when I was with my parents to Santa Barbara.

936
00:51:48,080 --> 00:51:51,560
Speaker 1: It was one of two vacations that we took. I

937
00:51:51,600 --> 00:51:54,279
Speaker 1: only have had seven days of vacation in my entire

938
00:51:54,320 --> 00:51:57,440
Speaker 1: life as a child, which when my kids complain about

939
00:51:57,480 --> 00:52:00,840
Speaker 1: going places, I'm like, you know, I have actively seven

940
00:52:01,640 --> 00:52:06,560
Speaker 1: seven days of vacation growing up, so stop complaining. I

941
00:52:06,600 --> 00:52:09,640
Speaker 1: went to Santa Barbara and I was sick the whole time,

942
00:52:09,719 --> 00:52:12,399
Speaker 1: and I threw up in the garbage. Can I just.

943
00:52:12,320 --> 00:52:13,160
Speaker 3: Remember not fun?

944
00:52:13,600 --> 00:52:16,839
Speaker 2: No, that'll ruin it. Yep, that'll do it. Okay.

945
00:52:17,120 --> 00:52:19,320
Speaker 1: I'm sure there's a more dramatic thing as an adult,

946
00:52:19,320 --> 00:52:20,799
Speaker 1: but I can't. I probably blocked it out.

947
00:52:21,280 --> 00:52:26,600
Speaker 2: Sure, Sure, besides something related to your career. What's something

948
00:52:26,640 --> 00:52:28,840
Speaker 2: you're secretly so good at that you could teach a

949
00:52:28,840 --> 00:52:29,440
Speaker 2: class on it?

950
00:52:33,760 --> 00:52:38,160
Speaker 1: Well, I really think I could do an excellent cookie

951
00:52:38,320 --> 00:52:41,640
Speaker 1: making class. Like really, my mom was an incredible baker

952
00:52:41,840 --> 00:52:46,279
Speaker 1: and I have kind of mad cookie making skills.

953
00:52:45,800 --> 00:52:49,680
Speaker 2: From excellent, Yeah, great, what's your what's your best cookie?

954
00:52:52,000 --> 00:52:56,120
Speaker 1: Well, there's this cookie that actually Martin Sheen really liked

955
00:52:56,160 --> 00:52:58,759
Speaker 1: and it's like a it's almost like a rogue law

956
00:52:58,920 --> 00:53:01,480
Speaker 1: but it's flat and it's like this pinwheel that you

957
00:53:01,640 --> 00:53:04,600
Speaker 1: caught and it's got jam on the inside and it's

958
00:53:04,719 --> 00:53:06,799
Speaker 1: just really good.

959
00:53:06,800 --> 00:53:12,920
Speaker 2: That sounds good. That sounds amazing. Mom groups yay or nay.

960
00:53:13,440 --> 00:53:16,160
Speaker 1: Yay and or no, you're sure, I don't. I'm not

961
00:53:16,200 --> 00:53:20,560
Speaker 1: in any but I'm not against them. I would like

962
00:53:20,600 --> 00:53:22,279
Speaker 1: to be in a book club, but I can't get

963
00:53:22,320 --> 00:53:23,160
Speaker 1: anyone to do it.

964
00:53:24,640 --> 00:53:26,520
Speaker 2: So what are you a fan of mom? You're not

965
00:53:26,560 --> 00:53:28,200
Speaker 2: in any But what makes you a fan?

966
00:53:29,000 --> 00:53:32,520
Speaker 1: Well, because it's fun to hang out with people and

967
00:53:32,520 --> 00:53:34,359
Speaker 1: and is that what you mean, like, don't you hang

968
00:53:34,360 --> 00:53:36,759
Speaker 1: out with moms? I don't know. I've never been in one.

969
00:53:37,120 --> 00:53:38,560
Speaker 2: Me neither, but me neither.

970
00:53:38,880 --> 00:53:43,919
Speaker 1: But yeah, sure I love a group. Yeah, I'm pro

971
00:53:45,000 --> 00:53:45,759
Speaker 1: I actively.

972
00:53:47,280 --> 00:53:49,359
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's this whole idea that like we we're all

973
00:53:49,400 --> 00:53:52,560
Speaker 2: friends because our kids are in school together or or

974
00:53:52,760 --> 00:53:57,560
Speaker 2: yeah whatever. And I've eschewed mom groups because I just

975
00:53:57,560 --> 00:54:01,759
Speaker 2: don't want added pressure for me, but I can I

976
00:54:01,800 --> 00:54:04,320
Speaker 2: can also see the benefit of them for lots of women.

977
00:54:04,560 --> 00:54:07,400
Speaker 1: Yeah. Also I think that you know, you work, and

978
00:54:07,440 --> 00:54:09,400
Speaker 1: you like work, work, work, and you're out of your

979
00:54:09,400 --> 00:54:11,600
Speaker 1: house all the time and you're super busy. There's a

980
00:54:11,640 --> 00:54:14,759
Speaker 1: lot of moms said that, don't that like need the

981
00:54:14,800 --> 00:54:17,960
Speaker 1: community and that's kind of how they connect, you know.

982
00:54:18,400 --> 00:54:22,280
Speaker 2: Yeah, yes, is it hard to make mom friends being

983
00:54:23,320 --> 00:54:24,080
Speaker 2: a famous person?

984
00:54:26,480 --> 00:54:29,759
Speaker 1: I don't, I mean no, I mean, I don't know.

985
00:54:29,880 --> 00:54:32,040
Speaker 1: I have a lot of friends that are moms that

986
00:54:32,080 --> 00:54:35,200
Speaker 1: I've made and and I don't know that it was hard.

987
00:54:35,560 --> 00:54:36,040
Speaker 2: No, Okay.

988
00:54:36,520 --> 00:54:38,960
Speaker 1: Now there's some people that I think we wanted to

989
00:54:39,000 --> 00:54:41,320
Speaker 1: be friends with me because they were Donna Moss fans

990
00:54:41,560 --> 00:54:42,319
Speaker 1: a couple.

991
00:54:42,120 --> 00:54:44,680
Speaker 2: That's what I mean. Yeah, but you can tell that right.

992
00:54:44,800 --> 00:54:49,280
Speaker 1: No, but I'm really good friends with them now because

993
00:54:49,280 --> 00:54:52,600
Speaker 1: they are super nice, and I don't blame them because

994
00:54:52,760 --> 00:54:54,560
Speaker 1: the show is good and it was just like an

995
00:54:54,719 --> 00:54:57,280
Speaker 1: It's just like the beginning of the friendship and then yes,

996
00:54:57,400 --> 00:54:58,040
Speaker 1: you end up.

997
00:54:58,239 --> 00:54:58,480
Speaker 2: You know.

998
00:54:58,920 --> 00:55:03,120
Speaker 1: I have a friend who I really like, and one time,

999
00:55:03,200 --> 00:55:05,200
Speaker 1: deep in our friendship, like a year, and she called

1000
00:55:05,200 --> 00:55:10,919
Speaker 1: me Donna. I thought she was gonna die. I thought

1001
00:55:10,960 --> 00:55:13,920
Speaker 1: she was gonna die. She was so embarrassed. But it

1002
00:55:13,960 --> 00:55:14,920
Speaker 1: didn't bother me at all.

1003
00:55:16,640 --> 00:55:21,440
Speaker 2: Yeah, okay, our boys are obsessed with memes and slang.

1004
00:55:21,520 --> 00:55:23,919
Speaker 2: What meme or slang is annoying you the most? Right now?

1005
00:55:27,520 --> 00:55:29,879
Speaker 1: There's so many that I don't even know if I can.

1006
00:55:30,000 --> 00:55:31,000
Speaker 1: What's you go first?

1007
00:55:31,160 --> 00:55:32,840
Speaker 2: Six seven six seven?

1008
00:55:33,680 --> 00:55:36,360
Speaker 1: I haven't heard that. No, I haven't heard that lucky,

1009
00:55:36,600 --> 00:55:37,319
Speaker 1: I haven't heard that.

1010
00:55:38,080 --> 00:55:39,440
Speaker 2: I'd be too young for your boys.

1011
00:55:39,440 --> 00:55:40,520
Speaker 3: But it's no.

1012
00:55:40,840 --> 00:55:44,239
Speaker 1: One that I like is probably bad. I didn't even

1013
00:55:44,239 --> 00:55:46,480
Speaker 1: know what it means, but they'll just say, oh, that's lit.

1014
00:55:47,160 --> 00:55:49,279
Speaker 2: Yeah, lit. Yeah, it is good. That is good.

1015
00:55:49,320 --> 00:55:52,640
Speaker 1: Yeah, and that's cute. I like that. But I try

1016
00:55:52,680 --> 00:55:55,080
Speaker 1: to lay some eighties stuff on them and they're like,

1017
00:55:55,120 --> 00:55:56,240
Speaker 1: that is so stupid.

1018
00:55:57,040 --> 00:56:01,840
Speaker 2: You know. Okay, guys, no, you sound really cool with skibbity. Yeah.

1019
00:56:01,960 --> 00:56:05,960
Speaker 1: I say like, oh, you're so stuck up, and they're like,

1020
00:56:06,040 --> 00:56:08,640
Speaker 1: what is stuck up? I said stuck up as like

1021
00:56:09,160 --> 00:56:15,000
Speaker 1: classic or you're so moded? Did you do moded? I

1022
00:56:15,040 --> 00:56:17,839
Speaker 1: thought that maybe that was regional, like a California thing,

1023
00:56:17,960 --> 00:56:20,680
Speaker 1: but I know my sisters remember that, my sisters and

1024
00:56:20,760 --> 00:56:23,319
Speaker 1: I will still say oh, you're so moded, and people

1025
00:56:23,360 --> 00:56:26,120
Speaker 1: will be like, what are you saying? Yeah?

1026
00:56:26,320 --> 00:56:26,800
Speaker 3: So good.

1027
00:56:27,239 --> 00:56:29,600
Speaker 2: I should bring back some slang yeah for him as well.

1028
00:56:29,600 --> 00:56:30,200
Speaker 2: That's a good idea.

1029
00:56:30,239 --> 00:56:30,560
Speaker 3: Okay.

1030
00:56:30,760 --> 00:56:33,560
Speaker 2: The last question is very important to me. We ask

1031
00:56:33,640 --> 00:56:36,440
Speaker 2: it every time. When is iced coffee season.

1032
00:56:39,200 --> 00:56:46,239
Speaker 1: I am not a huge ice coffee person, okay, but

1033
00:56:46,600 --> 00:56:51,760
Speaker 1: when I do drink it, it's it is in the summer. Yeah, okay,

1034
00:56:51,800 --> 00:56:54,680
Speaker 1: But I can tell you because I live around the shop,

1035
00:56:54,760 --> 00:56:59,239
Speaker 1: from around the corner from an extremely popular cafe with

1036
00:56:59,560 --> 00:57:03,719
Speaker 1: iced coffee that everyone loves. The young people it's always

1037
00:57:04,080 --> 00:57:04,960
Speaker 1: iced coffee season.

1038
00:57:05,960 --> 00:57:08,439
Speaker 2: That makes me feel young because it's always iced coffee season.

1039
00:57:08,640 --> 00:57:11,600
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's a generational thing. The young people. They don't

1040
00:57:11,920 --> 00:57:13,400
Speaker 1: believe in hunt coffee.

1041
00:57:13,960 --> 00:57:16,360
Speaker 3: Well, maybe that's true.

1042
00:57:16,440 --> 00:57:19,600
Speaker 2: I'm not young enough. In fact, I've talked about this

1043
00:57:19,680 --> 00:57:22,240
Speaker 2: on the show where I'm you know, I'm in perimenopause

1044
00:57:22,320 --> 00:57:25,440
Speaker 2: and i had to switch to decaf because the caffeine

1045
00:57:25,480 --> 00:57:28,680
Speaker 2: was no longer working for me. And I've just been

1046
00:57:28,680 --> 00:57:32,080
Speaker 2: an iced coffee drinker since i was very, very very young. Yeah,

1047
00:57:32,240 --> 00:57:33,480
Speaker 2: but I love it. Good.

1048
00:57:33,800 --> 00:57:35,320
Speaker 3: Good to know I'm a hip with the kids though.

1049
00:57:35,600 --> 00:57:37,360
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think the kids are really into it.

1050
00:57:37,440 --> 00:57:37,720
Speaker 3: Cool.

1051
00:57:38,440 --> 00:57:40,760
Speaker 2: Well, Janelle, this was so lovely and it was really

1052
00:57:40,760 --> 00:57:42,320
Speaker 2: great to meet you and great to talk to you

1053
00:57:42,400 --> 00:57:45,400
Speaker 2: and go back to the West Wing and talk about

1054
00:57:45,440 --> 00:57:47,400
Speaker 2: our kids. It was really nice. Thanks for joining me.

1055
00:57:47,600 --> 00:57:49,560
Speaker 1: Yeah, I know it's fun definitely.

1056
00:57:52,680 --> 00:57:55,080
Speaker 2: Off the Cup is a production of iHeart Podcasts as

1057
00:57:55,120 --> 00:57:57,560
Speaker 2: part of the Reason Choice Network. If you want more,

1058
00:57:57,680 --> 00:58:01,360
Speaker 2: check out the other Reason Choice podcasts, Politics with Jamel

1059
00:58:01,440 --> 00:58:04,240
Speaker 2: Hill and Native Land pod. For Off the Cup, I

1060
00:58:04,240 --> 00:58:06,920
Speaker 2: am your host, Se Cup. Editing and sound design by

1061
00:58:07,000 --> 00:58:11,360
Speaker 2: Derek Clements. Our executive producers are me Se Cup, Lauren Hanson,

1062
00:58:11,560 --> 00:58:15,200
Speaker 2: and Lindsay Hoffman rate and review Wherever you get your podcasts,

1063
00:58:15,480 --> 00:58:26,160
Speaker 2: Follow or subscribe for new episodes every Wednesday.