Speaker 1: Chris Harrison is a television and game show host, best
Speaker 1: known for his role as the host of the ABC
Speaker 1: reality TV dating.
Speaker 2: Show The Bachelor.
Speaker 1: He also hosted its many spinoffs, The Bachelorette, Bachelor Pad,
Speaker 1: and more. In twenty twenty one, Chris announced that he
Speaker 1: will be temporarily stepping aside from the franchise. Since then,
Speaker 1: Chris got engaged to his fiance Lauren Zima, and now
Speaker 1: hosts his own iHeartRadio podcast, the most dramatic podcast ever.
Speaker 1: This is just be with Chris Harrison. Let's get into it.
Speaker 3: Hi, Hi bethany how are you good?
Speaker 2: Have I don't know that we've have we ever met
Speaker 2: in person?
Speaker 3: We never have, which is bizarre.
Speaker 2: I know, I don't know.
Speaker 1: When I read your bio, it says your best known
Speaker 1: own for your role on the Bachelor and Bachelorette and
Speaker 1: the spinoffs. But I don't know how you got started.
Speaker 1: I don't know what your trajectory was to get to that.
Speaker 3: I was a sportscaster. I played soccer in college, and
Speaker 3: then from college got into sportscasting, slash news and all
Speaker 3: that stuff, and Oklahoma City just the local CBS affiliate,
Speaker 3: and then went on to start a horse racing network
Speaker 3: in LA and then did game shows and Home and
Speaker 3: Garden Show and then Bachelor.
Speaker 1: Oh okay, so you're very passionate about sports. That was
Speaker 1: just the like hook you had to get in.
Speaker 3: No, I was passionate about about playing it. It was funny.
Speaker 3: I always loved playing it more than I did covering it.
Speaker 3: But it was kind of this natural transition when I
Speaker 3: was in college and just fell in love with TV.
Speaker 1: And you've never thought about getting back into the sports
Speaker 1: world in the professional space like I did.
Speaker 3: I thought about it, but the honestly, the hour suck.
Speaker 3: It's like today, I'm leaving and flying out to go
Speaker 3: see the US Open golf tournament, and instead I would
Speaker 3: have been working it. So I went to the Super
Speaker 3: Bowl and I went all those things, but I was
Speaker 3: alone sitting there on press row, going, oh, remind yourself
Speaker 3: to have fun because you're sitting here alone when everybody's
Speaker 3: home having parties.
Speaker 2: Right, right.
Speaker 3: But you and I have very similar trajectories.
Speaker 1: Interesting, So how long have you been engaged?
Speaker 3: Gosh, good question?
Speaker 2: Who cares? Right? Who cares that?
Speaker 3: It's a year?
Speaker 2: Okay?
Speaker 1: Did you find that in the beginning people are asking you?
Speaker 1: And now no one really cares what you do.
Speaker 2: Like they're asking you when you're getting married, any planning wedding?
Speaker 3: Now it's yeah, Now it goes to when when you're
Speaker 3: getting married and what you know you're planning, where is
Speaker 3: it going to be, and all that good stuff.
Speaker 2: Oh, they're still there with us.
Speaker 1: They don't mean they don't even care, Like, oh really, yeah,
Speaker 1: and what's your answer.
Speaker 3: We're getting married soon, we actually have a wedding plan.
Speaker 1: Oh oh so no, we're not in the same boat
Speaker 1: because we're in the same boat that we're both engaged.
Speaker 1: But like, I have the question all the time, and
Speaker 1: I don't really have a great reason why we're not
Speaker 1: planning a wedding. I think the best reason is just
Speaker 1: that I don't want to, Like I don't want I
Speaker 1: we we are.
Speaker 2: It feels cheesy. We feels like we're married.
Speaker 1: They are life partners, which I think people think is
Speaker 1: a weird thing to say, just like using that sort
Speaker 1: of formal terminology. It's like very like modern terminology. But
Speaker 1: I hate that when the question gets asked, it's like
Speaker 1: a good like sort of talk show question, and I'm
Speaker 1: just like, I don't.
Speaker 3: Know, that's what, Well, that's funny. Yes, that's why I
Speaker 3: got engaged because I was like, I can't call you
Speaker 3: my girlfriend. Yes, and you're more than that because you
Speaker 3: live we live together, we have this life together and
Speaker 3: so and I'm not cool enough for whatever to say
Speaker 3: life partner. I don't even know what that means. So
Speaker 3: I'm like, okay, let's get this is the next step.
Speaker 3: Let's get engaged.
Speaker 2: Right.
Speaker 1: No, And fiance is weird too, isn't it?
Speaker 2: Now?
Speaker 4: For you?
Speaker 3: It is? Yeah, Now that's silly. That's it's more.
Speaker 1: It's almost more stupid because it's like younger. It sounds
Speaker 1: like you're twenty three.
Speaker 3: It does. It does make me feel.
Speaker 2: There you wouldn't know, Oh my god, you would know
Speaker 2: more than anyone.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 3: Yeah, No, I mean it's like and I and I
Speaker 3: was married previously, and so you know, I was young.
Speaker 3: I was in my twenty and so it felt natural.
Speaker 3: And so when I say, oh, she's my fiancee, it
Speaker 3: makes me feel like I'm in college again or I
Speaker 3: just got engaged. Yeah, And so it is this weird
Speaker 3: kind of purgatory where we're not here, we're not there yet.
Speaker 3: So I'm like, okay, now it's time to do and
Speaker 3: That's how I always felt about all my relationships. Is
Speaker 3: when it doesn't feel right anymore and you feel like, okay,
Speaker 3: I'm lying to everybody, It's time let's go public. Okay,
Speaker 3: I'm tired of calling you my girlfriend. Let's get engaged.
Speaker 3: I don't want to call you my so that when
Speaker 3: when you get that feeling it's time to move on.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and not to bring up a sensitive word, but
Speaker 1: will you have a bachelor party or no?
Speaker 2: Way?
Speaker 3: You know it's funny no, but yes, like I don't
Speaker 3: want to have a bachelor party bay any means again
Speaker 3: talk about something I did when I was twenty three.
Speaker 3: But I will probably grab some of my dearest friends
Speaker 3: and will go play golf or something.
Speaker 2: Just want to make meaning.
Speaker 3: Yeah, exactly like be with people I love and we'll
Speaker 3: call it a bachelor party. But yeah, we're not going out.
Speaker 3: You know, we're not going to a strip club. We're
Speaker 3: not doing any of this stupid stuff that I didn't
Speaker 3: even love when I was twenty three, right, Yeah, that.
Speaker 1: It's funny because I don't know, I think you're younger
Speaker 1: than I am. You do you mind if I have
Speaker 1: I'm fifty one, Oh, so you're a year younger, so
Speaker 1: we are very similar.
Speaker 3: Well, I think it's weird the more I talk about, like,
Speaker 3: I can't believe we haven't met, I know, because we
Speaker 3: have very parallel lives on so many levels. It's really bizarre.
Speaker 2: I know.
Speaker 3: And you're the East Coast version.
Speaker 1: On the East Coast version, you took a really sort
Speaker 1: of like traditional work entertainment path, but you know what
Speaker 1: I mean. And I'm like rogue in that way. So
Speaker 1: it's a parallel, different circuitist path. But funny to think
Speaker 1: about the fact that both I wouldn't have thought of
Speaker 1: yours as risky and scary. However, thinking about you being
Speaker 1: partners with such a big network that you know, Disney
Speaker 1: owns ABC right like that. I know from Eric stone Street,
Speaker 1: I'm modern family like he won't. He's still sort of
Speaker 1: trained to not say so things, to not be a
Speaker 1: certain way. He can't believe the things that I say
Speaker 1: when he can say, I'm too. He's not on the
Speaker 1: show anymore. But people who live in that world have
Speaker 1: to adhere to such a code.
Speaker 3: Oh, for sure. You definitely got to stay between these
Speaker 3: little navigational beacons.
Speaker 1: For sure, Yes, and you know, find your little ways
Speaker 1: of like blinking twice to say something that might be
Speaker 1: almost inappropriate but not quite like being on a morning
Speaker 1: talk show, you know, and I'm on the Today Show.
Speaker 1: I'll like say things that are sort of winking to
Speaker 1: the audience, but you can't really say what I would
Speaker 1: normally say.
Speaker 2: And so I.
Speaker 1: Wouldn't have thought that your path would be scary. I
Speaker 1: think that my path is sometimes scary because I, you know,
Speaker 1: borderline really getting in trouble for being opinionated. So I
Speaker 1: wonder have you felt do you feel free now in
Speaker 1: your career, like you can really you could kind of
Speaker 1: do or say anything you want.
Speaker 2: Now, right?
Speaker 3: Yeah, Well, I mean, and you bring up a good point,
Speaker 3: like there was safety in my job for so long
Speaker 3: because my job kept me in that little space and
Speaker 3: so as long as I stayed in that little space,
Speaker 3: and I didn't speak out on politics or anything, which
Speaker 3: by the way, I never did. Anyway, I never brought
Speaker 3: it in to the show because I felt like that's
Speaker 3: what people were getting away from when they wanted to
Speaker 3: come to me and my show. It's like they're if
Speaker 3: you want that, go go elsewhere. You come here to
Speaker 3: escape and get away from it all. So my brand
Speaker 3: was never being this outspoken proponent of anything, whereas your
Speaker 3: brand kind of was you were known as this brash,
Speaker 3: really outspoken speak you know and kind of shoot from
Speaker 3: the hip. And so yeah, I could see how your
Speaker 3: life would be a little bit scarier from day to
Speaker 3: day as opposed to my My thing was kind of
Speaker 3: lined up for me. Your original question of do you
Speaker 3: feel more free one hundred percent doing this, having my
Speaker 3: own brand, my own name, my own title. I'm not.
Speaker 3: And also there's safety in having quote unquote been canceled.
Speaker 3: You know, it's kind of being pregnant. It's kind of
Speaker 3: like being pregnant, like can I get pregnant again? So
Speaker 3: there's some Yeah, there's safety in that. So and I
Speaker 3: think people that love me and supported me, they're with
Speaker 3: me anyway. So and the people that don't don't don't
Speaker 3: be with me, don't listen, don't watch. But yeah, I
Speaker 3: feel a lot more free to speak my mind and
Speaker 3: be a little bit more honest.
Speaker 1: What about something being part of your DNA and not
Speaker 1: even realizing it, like walking away leaving the Housewives for me, Yeah,
Speaker 1: albeit by choice. I kept thinking about like even it
Speaker 1: was like an x X that I was not in
Speaker 1: love with but I was still thinking about them, like
Speaker 1: are they calling? Do I call them? What are they doing?
Speaker 1: Like what are they up to? Like I was still
Speaker 1: connect I thought that was the only world. I thought
Speaker 1: that everybody knew what the housewives were, and I know
Speaker 1: in the stratosphere they do like in the ether, but
Speaker 1: I thought that everybody was like talking about, you know,
Speaker 1: what an Orange County housewives doing, and they weren't because
Speaker 1: it was just something I was connected to. So I
Speaker 1: checked back in and then one day, just like an X,
Speaker 1: it just dissolves and off of you and it's not
Speaker 1: part of you, it's just somebody that you used to know.
Speaker 3: It is that it is very cathartic, and you're right,
Speaker 3: it is like it's very much as a relationship and
Speaker 3: a breakup, And mine was kind of the same way
Speaker 3: where it was. I mean, the best I could say
Speaker 3: is it was mutual. It definitely wasn't against me, like
Speaker 3: I wasn't fired, but I didn't exactly quit. It was
Speaker 3: kind of this mutual thing agreement, if you will. But
Speaker 3: when you've been a part of something for twenty years
Speaker 3: and you are so synonymous with it, like you were
Speaker 3: putting you really put housewives on the Map and became
Speaker 3: synonymous with it, and I was the same way you
Speaker 3: think a bachelor, you think of Chris Harrison, and so
Speaker 3: I prided myself in that and I tried to never
Speaker 3: be known as that personally, Like I didn't want to
Speaker 3: identify as that. But you almost can't help it because
Speaker 3: that's what you do.
Speaker 1: I know, like in some world you're, you know, winning
Speaker 1: Academy Awards for real films, like you're Jim Carrey trying
Speaker 1: to get out of comedy being a real actor.
Speaker 2: Meaning, well, that.
Speaker 3: Never bothered me, like I was so. No, I was
Speaker 3: never the guy that was like, oh, please, don't just
Speaker 3: know me as this guy about you. No, I'm totally
Speaker 3: cool with that. Believe me. I'll all hand out roses
Speaker 3: still the day I die, I know where my bread
Speaker 3: was buttered. And I totally respected that. And to this day,
Speaker 3: it's funny because people I'm still synonymous with the show.
Speaker 3: People either still assume I'm on the show or they
Speaker 3: just asked me about it and whatever. I'm and I'm
Speaker 3: so grateful for it. I'm so it changed my life
Speaker 3: and I'm I'll never be mad about that. No, I
Speaker 3: just meant like, personally, it didn't identify like I have
Speaker 3: a different life, and I lived my own life as
Speaker 3: far as my relationships and my friends and that goes.
Speaker 3: But when you leave a show, it's still very much
Speaker 3: a part of you. And there was a bit of
Speaker 3: a like you said, that breakup is interesting because it
Speaker 3: is like I was, could have done it for another
Speaker 3: five or ten years. Was I still in love with her? No,
Speaker 3: it wasn't the same.
Speaker 2: But I didn't even know.
Speaker 1: You're in a relationship and now you're like still thinking
Speaker 1: about who are they sleeping with even though.
Speaker 3: They're going through the motions.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm saying ABC, and it's people they're casting in
Speaker 1: your position. You're looking at how they're doing. Well are
Speaker 1: they It's just like a really are they happy? Who
Speaker 1: are they sleeping with? Is it working?
Speaker 2: Like you know what I mean?
Speaker 3: Did you take any sort of solace or happiness out
Speaker 3: of the fact that Housewives dips after Bethany Frankel leaves.
Speaker 2: Well, I mean yeah, I mean yeah, big time.
Speaker 1: I'll tell you two things. One, because you may go
Speaker 1: back one day. I read like you know, you've talked
Speaker 1: about it and you never know, and I could see
Speaker 1: it happening, you know, time heals all wounds. Yeah, the
Speaker 1: ratings went from three million to one point six. I
Speaker 1: think it was I was a big and then I
Speaker 1: came back and they went back up, and I felt wow.
Speaker 1: And you do think about the fear based culture and
Speaker 1: how people don't play the long game. There are a
Speaker 1: lot of business lessons to be learned. It's not that
Speaker 1: easy to work with big networks as you've done, because
Speaker 1: they're just always playing scared.
Speaker 2: They have to right.
Speaker 3: They're not smart business people making really smart business decisions.
Speaker 3: And you're an amazing business woman considering everything that you've
Speaker 3: done subsequently from the housewives. And when people don't think
Speaker 3: like that, it's really hard to work with them. When
Speaker 3: they're not making even common sense choices that you know
Speaker 3: will benefit everybody, that you know will lead to success,
Speaker 3: it's hard to work in that space.
Speaker 1: Well, also, you're working so by doing what you were doing,
Speaker 1: you're working in a corporate environment no matter what, like
Speaker 1: it doesn't matter that you're a creative or entertainer, you're
Speaker 1: in a corporate environment. So so I just launched a
Speaker 1: YouTube series, but like a real produced twenty minute it's
Speaker 1: a television show.
Speaker 2: It's just YouTube.
Speaker 1: Is the network and I never understood how I could
Speaker 1: participate there in that way because I could carry a show,
Speaker 1: and it's so liberating to do like a content to
Speaker 1: the people model like you're doing on your podcast. Now
Speaker 1: you don't have to go ask the hall monitor for permission.
Speaker 1: Five suits tell you it's a good idea, it's a
Speaker 1: bad idea. We're waiting for legal to let us know
Speaker 1: if you're in or you're out or whatever next season
Speaker 1: pick up. It's kind of at a certain level after
Speaker 1: working for so many years, you kind of feel powerless,
Speaker 1: like you it's not your choice, And I feel that
Speaker 1: there's something nice about this modern time and a career
Speaker 1: for someone like you or myself that is like freedom,
Speaker 1: Like you could go say whatever you want right today
Speaker 1: and make it entertainment and people will listen.
Speaker 3: The paradigm is shifted completely. It's really done A one eighty. I.
Speaker 3: You know, when you and I got in this business again,
Speaker 3: we're about the same age and kind of interested it.
Speaker 3: Around the same time, there was this dynamic of does
Speaker 3: Bethany Frankel represent our brand?
Speaker 2: It?
Speaker 3: You know, is she is it okay that we have her? Well,
Speaker 3: now that paradigm's completely done A one eighty. Do the
Speaker 3: people you work for represent you?
Speaker 2: Oh? Yeah?
Speaker 1: Howard Stern is a rare occurrence of pushing through. Yeah,
Speaker 1: the man, you know, he's a rare, rare occurrence.
Speaker 2: Back he was.
Speaker 3: Really the first of the breed. He was way ahead
Speaker 3: of his time. I mean, he is a genie on
Speaker 3: so many levels, not only one of the best interviewers
Speaker 3: of our time, but you're right, he was kind of
Speaker 3: the first to show us we should have looked at
Speaker 3: that model twenty years ago.
Speaker 2: Yeah, push through. I'm going to say what I want to.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's because well because they're saying I relate to that,
Speaker 1: because you know, not everyone likes me, and that's okay.
Speaker 1: They want to even if they don't like me. The
Speaker 1: sort of research says they want to hear what I
Speaker 1: have to say. They love to hate me, So it's
Speaker 1: not if they hate to hate me, we're in trouble.
Speaker 1: They like to like they love to love me, or
Speaker 1: they love to hate me, but they don't hate to
Speaker 1: hate me.
Speaker 3: You know what kills apathy. I always say when it
Speaker 3: was the Bachelor Bacherette, people would say, why was this
Speaker 3: person good to this? And I said, look, I don't
Speaker 3: care if you hate this person. I don't care if
Speaker 3: you love this person, as long as you have a
Speaker 3: real strong feeling one way or the other. What will
Speaker 3: kill me and kill the show is if you say
Speaker 3: I don't care or blah fast forward like Bethany, eh,
Speaker 3: I don't really have an opinion. I don't care, but yeah,
Speaker 3: you're right, love you or hate you. I want to
Speaker 3: hear what you're saying. That matters, and someone who moves
Speaker 3: the needle is what matters.
Speaker 2: Interesting.
Speaker 1: So the way that this podcast today happened was you
Speaker 1: were on the phone with Amy, the producer for she
Speaker 1: produces yours too or no.
Speaker 3: Yeah she does, yes, I'm with my heart as well.
Speaker 1: So she was like, I'm on the other phone with
Speaker 1: Chris Harrison, and I said, Chris, well, I didn't say
Speaker 1: I don't think I said you hated me because I
Speaker 1: don't think that you do. I don't think you care.
Speaker 1: I mean respectfully. But I said no, He like, tell
Speaker 1: him you're on the other phone with me, because he said,
Speaker 1: like an he said a nasty thing about me in
Speaker 1: an article, and correct me if I'm wrong. I was
Speaker 1: single because you're doing what you're doing. Someone said, would
Speaker 1: you ever date Bethany and you're like, I don't like her.
Speaker 1: I don't like the way she treated her father or
Speaker 1: spoke about her father. And now I heard you just say,
Speaker 1: I didn't even know that you did a horse racing show.
Speaker 1: So for everyone listening to, my father is a hall
Speaker 1: of fame, was a Hall of fame horse trainer, one
Speaker 1: of the greatest horse trainers of all time. And I
Speaker 1: was thinking, A, I didn't know that you even knew him,
Speaker 1: and you must have known him like through the business,
Speaker 1: but you weren't his best friend. I mean, you are
Speaker 1: like Joe Torre, who's his best friend?
Speaker 2: I think, right? And and so I read that and
Speaker 2: was like, what the fuck is So?
Speaker 3: Yeah, So I got asked, this is back when I
Speaker 3: was single, and I don't remember the article or whatever,
Speaker 3: but something you had said something about your dad or
Speaker 3: something like that. So this is this the weirdest story
Speaker 3: that I.
Speaker 2: Think I had said. I don't.
Speaker 1: I think I had said something. It might have been
Speaker 1: on the show because I talked about it, or it
Speaker 1: might have been even earlier on the Today Show. And
Speaker 1: I said, I don't because it was Father's Day, Countess,
Speaker 1: I don't really have a father, because I really didn't.
Speaker 3: That was it? Yeah, that was it? So, and so
Speaker 3: I knew your dad. It's funny, So I knew your dad,
Speaker 3: I didn't know much about you, and honestly, when you
Speaker 3: came to be I had known your dad much better
Speaker 3: than I didn't. It took me a while before I
Speaker 3: even realized you two were connected.
Speaker 2: Doesn't that say a lot to you?
Speaker 3: Yeah? It does, know, And that's why I was gonna.
Speaker 3: I wanted to talk to you about it because I
Speaker 3: wasn't best friends with your dad, but one of his
Speaker 3: very best friends was was a was another trainer slash
Speaker 3: horse person, This guy frank Lyons, this Irish guy. Okay,
Speaker 3: So Frankie was a very dear friend of mine. We
Speaker 3: worked together and did a show together.
Speaker 2: And I know that show. Yes, that was his show. Okay.
Speaker 3: So anytime we went to New York to Belmont to
Speaker 3: cover the Belt with anything Saratoga, we went and had
Speaker 3: dinner with your dad and went and hung out. And
Speaker 3: so I hung out with your dad many times, got
Speaker 3: to know him pretty well, to the point where you know,
Speaker 3: we we would see each other and give each other
Speaker 3: a hug and say hello. But you're right. What made
Speaker 3: me think later was how did I not know anything
Speaker 3: about Bethany, and I knew her dad fairly well. And
Speaker 3: I'm probably the only person in this world that knew
Speaker 3: your dad and when did and worked with him on
Speaker 3: that world. It was you know, I was it was
Speaker 3: very horse centric. So obviously I was there at the races.
Speaker 3: We were talking about the races and all that. But
Speaker 3: we would go out and you know, have a great
Speaker 3: stake in New York, as your dad loved to do.
Speaker 3: But it was funny, but I never really knew. And
Speaker 3: I've read subsequently that you you know, you had a
Speaker 3: very strained relationship, So no, I really don't know. Oh,
Speaker 3: it doesn't matter.
Speaker 1: I just I was just had to bring it up
Speaker 1: because that's how it started. And I don't hold it
Speaker 1: against you. We did not have I didn't, I didn't know.
Speaker 1: I didn't see him from the time I was five
Speaker 1: to fourteen, and he literally said, I'm washing my hands
Speaker 1: with the whole situation about me, and then like, really,
Speaker 1: he just never was interested in being my father. And
Speaker 1: I think it's because how could I know what he thought?
Speaker 1: What I think you're now being a parent. I can't
Speaker 1: even imagine it. He was a very he was a
Speaker 1: very horse centric person very I don't, I don't.
Speaker 2: I'm he was selfish. I mean, he just really only
Speaker 2: thought about what was.
Speaker 1: Going on with him and with the horses, and so
Speaker 1: it makes sense people around him who he met, you know,
Speaker 1: he liked young girls and he was fun. He go
Speaker 1: out and tell the jokes and he like, he's knows
Speaker 1: the best steak and all this stuff, and we're talking
Speaker 1: about horses. But he couldn't really relate to other people
Speaker 1: that did not have weren't in the horse community. And
Speaker 1: I was not, you know, so anyway, and my stepfather
Speaker 1: was a horse trainer too.
Speaker 2: I don't know if you know, no Maarrisla John.
Speaker 3: Parrislla John Bill, Yes, of course, yeah.
Speaker 1: Yeah, so that was my stepfather. So yeah, I grew
Speaker 1: up at the racetrack, my aunt everyone, so I never
Speaker 1: ever go and I don't have a connection to it.
Speaker 2: But yeah, anyway, I don't know why we talked about
Speaker 2: that for halfy nobody.
Speaker 3: It is interesting because I knowing and this is a
Speaker 3: weird relationship to have with you since we had never met.
Speaker 3: Is I spent those nights with your dad in days
Speaker 3: as well, But I never really thought until later about
Speaker 3: the family dynamic because we were in those nights where
Speaker 3: we're out in Manhattan or we're doing whatever, and it
Speaker 3: wasn't really the time to have kids around or to
Speaker 3: have I know, and so and so I never thought
Speaker 3: much of it because in those nights, we're just drinking wine,
Speaker 3: having a steak or whatever. So I didn't think, Hey,
Speaker 3: where's your daughter or yes.
Speaker 2: And it wasn't weird that he was you know what
Speaker 2: I mean.
Speaker 3: It wasn't It wasn't weird that he wasn't talking about
Speaker 3: you in those moments. And it would have been weird
Speaker 3: if I had said, well, tell me about your family.
Speaker 3: You know, we're just we're just shooting the ship and
Speaker 3: having a great time.
Speaker 2: I understand, I got the whole time.
Speaker 3: And it wasn't until later when I when you came
Speaker 3: to prominence and I put this connection together and I'm like, wait,
Speaker 3: oh my god, that's Bobby Frankel's daughter. What a weird
Speaker 3: way to get to know Bethany Frankel, because everyone knew
Speaker 3: you so differently than how I was getting to know you. Oh,
Speaker 3: totally different, different lens altogether.
Speaker 1: And I had a whole life on the racetrack obviously
Speaker 1: as a kid going to Saratogai didn't go to camp.
Speaker 1: I was going to the bedding windows. I was going
Speaker 1: to Vegas for three weeks in a row.
Speaker 3: The backside of a horse track is is a very
Speaker 3: interesting place to grow up.
Speaker 2: I grew up there and I was a hot walker,
Speaker 2: no way.
Speaker 3: So obviously the person who kind of walks the horses
Speaker 3: and gets them out and goes in the circle and
Speaker 3: that is crazy down.
Speaker 1: That's why people don't know the expression ridden hard and
Speaker 1: put away wet about a woman. It's because it's a fill.
Speaker 1: It's a horse that hasn't been cooled down after their work.
Speaker 3: How weird that we have this connection. Yeah, it was
Speaker 3: the last time you talked horse racing with anybody.
Speaker 1: Never, like I never Bobby Flay a little, but really
Speaker 1: it's very little Dave Portnoy, very minimally.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 1: Also I think of someone like Dave port and is
Speaker 1: like not an imposter, but like a late like I
Speaker 1: was eating pizza at this Pemona guard and before he
Speaker 1: was born, Like he's talking on horse racing because he
Speaker 1: came and like I've been. I grew up at the
Speaker 1: racetrack literally hanging out the jockeys and the jockeys agents
Speaker 1: and walking horses, and so it's one I feel like, I,
Speaker 1: you know, I'm part of that club. And if I
Speaker 1: ever go back, it's.
Speaker 3: Like, you know, well tell me this. And it's a
Speaker 3: weird question to ask somebody now that your dad has gone,
Speaker 3: I have fun memories of him. Is that a bad thing?
Speaker 2: No?
Speaker 1: I have fond memories of like his charm and his
Speaker 1: like his sparkle and his charm and and frankly, and
Speaker 1: we think about genetics in being the best, like people don't.
Speaker 1: I don't say it, so I don't know why I'm
Speaker 1: saying people don't believe me. But when I say this
Speaker 1: next sentence out loud, people would be like, what, I
Speaker 1: didn't know that, Like he was probably top ten in
Speaker 1: history at that.
Speaker 3: No, he is a legend, an absolute hall of fame
Speaker 3: legend in the sport.
Speaker 1: Yeah, but no one knows that because I never talked.
Speaker 1: And every time there's an article and they say to me,
Speaker 1: tell us something we don't know about you, I never
Speaker 1: say that.
Speaker 2: I don't know why.
Speaker 1: I never think about like that. My father's a hall
Speaker 1: of fame, Like he's in the Hall of fame.
Speaker 3: No, he's like a Bill Belichick, right coaches slash trainers.
Speaker 3: I mean, that's what these people do. He's one of
Speaker 3: the biggest races. He's he was worth, you know, he
Speaker 3: won millions and millions and millions of.
Speaker 2: Dollars he did. But how weird?
Speaker 3: Is this?
Speaker 2: So okay?
Speaker 1: So first of all, there's something connected with me and
Speaker 1: him just genetically and like winning, Like I was raised
Speaker 1: like that. Nobody cares who came second in Derby by
Speaker 1: a nose. It doesn't matter, like who, You're never going
Speaker 1: to hear that name, So who gives a shit? So
Speaker 1: I'm like a winner, like I'm gonna win or I'm
Speaker 1: not doing.
Speaker 3: It, like it's finishing second at the Olympics.
Speaker 1: Period, Like we could sleep or we could do it,
Speaker 1: but I don't want to do the middle. So I like,
Speaker 1: like winning or not participating, those are my two options.
Speaker 1: So I see that from there. And then I had
Speaker 1: a lot of money noise growing up because I like
Speaker 1: never knew where my stepfather. We would have six cars
Speaker 1: in the driveway and then we would only have a
Speaker 1: card table and he'd be borrowing money for me to
Speaker 1: pay off a bookie. Like it was very high low,
Speaker 1: very degenerate racetrack lifestyle. I grew up with, so I
Speaker 1: never felt safe with money, and he didn't really help
Speaker 1: me that much he wanted. He just didn't really help me.
Speaker 1: He kind of wanted to keep me down. And like
Speaker 1: I'd go to the derby and he would be bragging
Speaker 1: to a bunch of people about all these tickets he
Speaker 1: has and he should sell them, and I'd be begging
Speaker 1: friends or people to get in, like he never want
Speaker 1: to be Yes, he wouldn't. He didn't help me in
Speaker 1: that way. He just had this thing with me.
Speaker 2: It was weird. So I ended up making more money
Speaker 2: than him.
Speaker 1: And I know that sounds ridiculous and I never think
Speaker 1: about it, but I'm thinking about it now. And I
Speaker 1: know because I know when he died, he left me.
Speaker 3: Well, is it safe to say you got the because
Speaker 3: I do see attributes And again this is weird because
Speaker 3: I know your dad. I see these attributes in you
Speaker 3: of you are a badass like you. You know, I
Speaker 3: dare somebody to tell Bethany Frankel you can't do this
Speaker 3: or no, and so, yeah, this drive. But do you
Speaker 3: think you maybe took that as hopefully the next generation does,
Speaker 3: and you you bettered it. You're a better person in
Speaker 3: the way you you apply these things absolutely.
Speaker 1: And also that now that I'd never think about this,
Speaker 1: but he was entirely unfiltered think about it. He would
Speaker 1: say anything to anyone and he didn't care.
Speaker 3: He didn't He was such a good interview.
Speaker 2: Right, do you want to go to dinner? No, Like,
Speaker 2: that's how I am.
Speaker 1: Like, we don't need to get into like lube and
Speaker 1: like for play and like after cigarettes.
Speaker 2: Like no, Like he would just say I don't want
Speaker 2: to go. That's me.
Speaker 1: If I don't want to do something, I'll just say
Speaker 1: I don't want to do it. I don't go like,
Speaker 1: oh I have a thing with the but I'm like, yeah, no,
Speaker 1: I don't think I want to do that.
Speaker 3: Why your dad was a tough interview like that too.
Speaker 3: If you asked a stupid question, he'd be like, that
Speaker 3: was a dumbas quoe. Yeah, he wouldn't say dumb ass,
Speaker 3: but he would say that. He's like he would let
Speaker 3: you know, you're like, damn, that was he's New York.
Speaker 3: It's like that, it's that New York.
Speaker 1: Yes, and then some but yeah, So anyway, he was
Speaker 1: very successful that interview that happened that that was on
Speaker 1: the Today Show. It's a lesson. By the way you
Speaker 1: have gone through this, this is a good full circle
Speaker 1: thing we can do. I was doing a Father's Day
Speaker 1: episode and it was kind of relevant because it didn't
Speaker 1: really apply to me. I wasn't about to celebrate Father's Day, Like,
Speaker 1: let's not bullshit. He never even would never call me,
Speaker 1: and he'd barely call me on my birthday.
Speaker 2: He didn't call.
Speaker 1: So I added that piece of information on the Today
Speaker 1: Show during the Father's Day segment. But not everything needs
Speaker 1: to be said, as I'm sure you've learned.
Speaker 2: It's true, it's.
Speaker 1: A fact he wasn't a great father and I didn't
Speaker 1: really have a father, but it did not need to
Speaker 1: be said. So when I say that to you, I'm
Speaker 1: curious because we're living in the world of like, be
Speaker 1: honest and be upfront and use your voice and say something.
Speaker 1: But at what call you can't make a mistake. Then
Speaker 1: you said something and the moment within a corporate infrastructure,
Speaker 1: and it might have been different if you said it
Speaker 1: now in your podcast, because not everything needs to be said,
Speaker 1: and things should be said differently in different places.
Speaker 3: By the way, one of my least favorite sentences in
Speaker 3: the world is your your your silence is deafening. That
Speaker 3: drives me nuts, you know, because people kind of want
Speaker 3: to set you up to to fail.
Speaker 1: Right.
Speaker 3: It's like say something, say something, say something. You didn't
Speaker 3: say it, right, It's just like you're never going to
Speaker 3: and you know this, You're never going to please everybody.
Speaker 3: And if you go around trying to please everybody, all
Speaker 3: you're going to do is fail everybody. Like there was
Speaker 3: there was a thing with you the other day. I
Speaker 3: don't know if it's the other day, but recently you
Speaker 3: spoke out against you were critical of the Housewives, right
Speaker 3: of the franchise or whatever. And your your quote was
Speaker 3: something about like, yeah, look I loved it. I was
Speaker 3: a part of it. But I can also be critical
Speaker 3: of it. I can be honest about it, right, And
Speaker 3: I know that.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's so funny because I'm not supposed to be
Speaker 1: I'm not allowed to speak on it or have a
Speaker 1: podcast that breaks it down because I left and have
Speaker 1: said negative things about it. Well, who said, what do
Speaker 1: you mean? You can't talk about your you might have
Speaker 1: hated your college. You can't talk about it.
Speaker 3: Right, and you and two things can. And this is
Speaker 3: the toughest thing about speaking out is two things and Actually,
Speaker 3: many things can be true at the same time. I
Speaker 3: can love my time on The Bachelor, I can love
Speaker 3: that franchise, I can understand how it changed television. Same
Speaker 3: thing with Housewives. I can also be very critical of
Speaker 3: it and understand that it was problematic in many ways
Speaker 3: and there were things that I would love to have
Speaker 3: changed that I couldn't or whatever. And same thing with
Speaker 3: you and Housewives. So all those things can be true
Speaker 3: at the same time exactly. So how can I just
Speaker 3: make one blanket statement and encapsulate all that you can't? No?
Speaker 1: And how can you make one mistake? And it's like
Speaker 1: why was it such a big deal? Like why can't
Speaker 1: someone make a mistake? People made way worse mistakes and
Speaker 1: be was it the environment you were in? If you
Speaker 1: made the mistake on your podcast, would it be as
Speaker 1: big of a deal, And what would you change? Like
Speaker 1: how give me write the script differently? You say the
Speaker 1: same thing, but like what happens? How do you handle it?
Speaker 1: Because this is helpful for people who get into trouble
Speaker 1: at work, say something stupid at a wedding, just fuck
Speaker 1: up in general, like we're alas, we should be allowed
Speaker 1: to fuck up.
Speaker 3: Well, nobody should be defined by one moment in their life,
Speaker 3: in my opinion, and definitely not defined by one vulnerable,
Speaker 3: low or disappointing moment. You know, I was a firm
Speaker 3: believer when I went through what I went through. That
Speaker 3: the foundation I've laid my entire life, the man, I
Speaker 3: am the dad, I am the friend, I am the host,
Speaker 3: I was the employee. All that that foundation that I
Speaker 3: worked on for three decades almost would be the decider.
Speaker 3: The best thing I could have done, if I had
Speaker 3: it to do over, which was control my own narrative.
Speaker 3: What the traditional going on Good Morning America couldn't have
Speaker 3: been a bigger mistake I would. I would urge anybody,
Speaker 3: if you have something real to say, do not go
Speaker 3: on Good Morning America. Ever, if you want to do
Speaker 3: a fluff piece, if you want to promote something great,
Speaker 3: but if you honestly have something serious to say, don't
Speaker 3: let somebody like Good Morning America control your narrative, control
Speaker 3: the message. So that I would have changed where I
Speaker 3: would have gone on social media, gone on YouTube, gone
Speaker 3: on Instagram, and just spoken to you just like this.
Speaker 3: It's also the other two things, this two pronged thing
Speaker 3: of controlling my own message I would have spoken. The
Speaker 3: other thing is leadership. When you do work for somebody,
Speaker 3: you are kind of under their thumb, right, you need
Speaker 3: some leadership. If someone of leadership, someone in a position
Speaker 3: of strength, will fill that void when they're when those
Speaker 3: two girls are chirping, right, and they just keep chirping
Speaker 3: and chirping and churning things out. The only people that
Speaker 3: can stamp that and stop that message is someone in
Speaker 3: a power position, someone of leadership. If someone of leadership says, hey,
Speaker 3: Chris Harrison's been with us for twenty years, he's a
Speaker 3: good man. We know this. Do we agree with Do
Speaker 3: we agree with what he said? No, look we don't
Speaker 3: agree with it by any means or whatever. But that's
Speaker 3: his own words. But we know this man to be
Speaker 3: an amazing guy who will stand up for anybody and
Speaker 3: jump in front of a bus. He is our guy.
Speaker 3: We're moving on, period.
Speaker 1: But that's why you have your own platform, because it's
Speaker 1: frightening to.
Speaker 3: Be But if people of leadership won't do that, they
Speaker 3: just leave you kind of hung out to dry, right.
Speaker 3: And so if no one fills that void, it allows
Speaker 3: this vacuum and it allows everybody to just keep talking
Speaker 3: and talking and printing articles and the wildfire continues and
Speaker 3: all they had to do was just bon't done. We're
Speaker 3: moving on, right.
Speaker 1: But the message for people who don't you can't know,
Speaker 1: You can't be a wizard and know what the powers
Speaker 1: that be are going to do to protect you. So
Speaker 1: you have to find ways to protect yourself is what
Speaker 1: the advice that I would give.
Speaker 3: You have to protect.
Speaker 1: Yourself because like you, so I was on Bravo and
Speaker 1: I was lost at sea for like twenty one to
Speaker 1: twenty four hours with thank God it and bring my
Speaker 1: baby with me in Nantucket to block on. It sounded
Speaker 1: like a crazy story. It sounded like a made for
Speaker 1: reality TV story. The entire crew was not shooting anymore.
Speaker 1: They it was crazy and everyone was saying it was
Speaker 1: a made up story. It was a fake story, and
Speaker 1: no one corrected it at Bravo. Like I went on
Speaker 1: with Matt Lower in the morning and like had to
Speaker 1: sort of try to defend myself like you on Good
Speaker 1: Morning America. But it really was like for not and
Speaker 1: who cares now, But it felt like a thing that
Speaker 1: I had to go defend when it really happened, And
Speaker 1: it would have been great if they were just like,
Speaker 1: this is preposterous. It absolutely happened. They were like, we
Speaker 1: don't get in the position of defending people or commenting
Speaker 1: on stories.
Speaker 2: I'm like, you gotta comment it happened.
Speaker 3: Well, that's the thing, and you're right. They're like, oh,
Speaker 3: we don't comment because you go back to something you
Speaker 3: said earlier in the show. They play scared, they live scared.
Speaker 3: They are you know, the executives and many companies and
Speaker 3: networks are just the same. They try to get through
Speaker 3: the day without making a decision and if they do
Speaker 3: have to make a decision, and don't be culpable for
Speaker 3: that decision. And so they with me, they were trying
Speaker 3: to just see which way the wind blows. Yeah, and
Speaker 3: when you're in it, when you're the human being that's
Speaker 3: in it, that's great. Because Disney's not going anywhere, ABC's
Speaker 3: not going anywhere, but I will.
Speaker 2: You're replaceable.
Speaker 3: Yeah, And so if you try to be loyal to
Speaker 3: these people and you try to play the game, because
Speaker 3: I'm an unbelievably loyal person to a fault, and I
Speaker 3: tried to just please everybody and apologize and keep doing
Speaker 3: what they were asking. Well, if they're not going to
Speaker 3: do their part, and step up. That leaves you in
Speaker 3: the lurch, and that leaves you in a very dangerous position.
Speaker 3: So to your point, you're exactly right. My advice would
Speaker 3: be do what's best for you. And that's not always
Speaker 3: what the business that you work for is going to
Speaker 3: tell you, and it's not always what your boss is
Speaker 3: going to tell you, because they're going to do what's
Speaker 3: right for them.
Speaker 1: But I would say if you're a person who's trying
Speaker 1: to do the right thing and loyal and pleasing and
Speaker 1: been in this business for this many years, it probably
Speaker 1: was something ultimately to have happened to you. Because you're
Speaker 1: in a new life now, you're you're engaged, it's a
Speaker 1: second chapter. You have your kids. It's different at our
Speaker 1: age you wonder what the purpose of everything is? What
Speaker 1: is my purpose? What am I doing? Like it just
Speaker 1: comes up at this age it's weird, like what does
Speaker 1: this soul mean?
Speaker 2: You experienced? You know, like this is the age for that.
Speaker 1: It's like a weird midlife crisis adjacent So you needed
Speaker 1: something to fucking shake up the snow globe.
Speaker 3: I think, oh my god, I use that same analogy
Speaker 3: all the time. And it needed there needed to be
Speaker 3: some sort of catastrophic event to rip that band aid
Speaker 3: off or else. I was just going to you know,
Speaker 3: I was on the Titanic and I was just gonna
Speaker 3: like I was the guy playing the violin on the Titanic,
Speaker 3: and I was just going to go down and the
Speaker 3: water's coming up above me, and I'm like, how lovely
Speaker 3: is this?
Speaker 2: Yes, nothing's happened. Something has to happen, something has.
Speaker 3: To happen to rip that apart. And it did, and
Speaker 3: it it was a it's terrible to say this because
Speaker 3: I went through it and it was horrific, but it
Speaker 3: was a beautiful event in my life that I will
Speaker 3: actually be grateful for when it's all said and done.
Speaker 3: It's probably the reason why I'm I'm getting married. It's
Speaker 3: probably the reason why my relationship with my kids is
Speaker 3: ten times better than it ever was, my relationship with
Speaker 3: my friends. I am at peace, I'm at ease. I'm
Speaker 3: a better person. And that's not to take a dig
Speaker 3: at all on the show that I worked for for
Speaker 3: twenty years. Again, I will be the first to say
Speaker 3: I am grateful it changed my life, oh ye. But
Speaker 3: at the same time, that specific moment, that total shift
Speaker 3: in my life was beautiful and I will always be
Speaker 3: grateful for that too.
Speaker 1: No, that was the iceberg to use your now, that
Speaker 1: was the iceberg and you had to either sink or swim,
Speaker 1: And I think, yeah, something has to happen for something
Speaker 1: to happen a lot in our lives at our at
Speaker 1: the stage of our lives that we're in. You get
Speaker 1: some stage and you're like, what, some's got to go down?
Speaker 3: Like, well, I always try to. I always try to
Speaker 3: challenge myself, and I think you're the same way because
Speaker 3: I've seen so many of your businesses and how successful
Speaker 3: you are, and I always would like, why did you
Speaker 3: write a book? It's like, well, I wrote a book
Speaker 3: because I'd never written one. I had to be scared.
Speaker 3: And why did you do a podcast? I don't know,
Speaker 3: I'd never tried it before, and so I try. That's
Speaker 3: what sports always was for me, and maybe horse racing
Speaker 3: tiny bit was for you. Is being scared that. I
Speaker 3: love the fear of failure. I love the ability to fail.
Speaker 3: Even when I was going through what I went through,
Speaker 3: I never worried about myself. I knew I was going
Speaker 3: to be fine because I'm always going to be fine.
Speaker 3: I will make something happen in my life. I don't
Speaker 3: care if I'm waiting tables or I'm a bartender, I'm
Speaker 3: a real estate agent. I'm going to go do something
Speaker 3: and I'm like you, I will be the best at it,
Speaker 3: or I will try to be the best at it.
Speaker 3: So I was never scared about me. It's just that
Speaker 3: drive and that ability to fail to me is exciting.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I agree, you're on the edge.
Speaker 4: If you loved this episode with Chris Harrison, don't worry.
Speaker 4: There's more. Head over to his podcast, The Most Dramatic
Speaker 4: Podcast Ever to check out the rest of our conversation.
Speaker 4: You can listen wherever you get your podcasts.