1 00:00:00,720 --> 00:00:01,840 Speaker 1: The Michael Berry Show. 2 00:00:02,240 --> 00:00:05,880 Speaker 2: Cheryl Atkisson is an Emmy Award winning investigative journalist and 3 00:00:06,000 --> 00:00:10,719 Speaker 2: author known for her fearless and it is fearless reporting 4 00:00:10,760 --> 00:00:15,440 Speaker 2: and her commitment to holding the powerful accountable. A former 5 00:00:15,600 --> 00:00:20,159 Speaker 2: correspondent for CBS News, she was at CNN, she was 6 00:00:20,200 --> 00:00:24,119 Speaker 2: at PBS. She now hosts the Sunday TV program Full 7 00:00:24,200 --> 00:00:28,800 Speaker 2: Measure and the Full Measure After Hours podcast, where she 8 00:00:28,960 --> 00:00:33,199 Speaker 2: continues doing what she did, tackling stories that those in 9 00:00:33,240 --> 00:00:38,440 Speaker 2: the mainstream media won't or can't. One of the stories 10 00:00:38,479 --> 00:00:43,520 Speaker 2: she's covered is about the correlation between vaccines and autism. 11 00:00:44,080 --> 00:00:46,120 Speaker 2: One of the things we do here on the show 12 00:00:46,320 --> 00:00:50,680 Speaker 2: is amplify the work of other people. If you enjoy this, 13 00:00:51,000 --> 00:00:53,920 Speaker 2: I encourage you. At Kisson is not easy to spell. 14 00:00:53,960 --> 00:00:59,200 Speaker 2: It's at kisso n, but you can find and Cheryl. 15 00:00:59,280 --> 00:01:03,760 Speaker 2: Her first name is easy either, it's Sha Ryl. But 16 00:01:04,200 --> 00:01:08,360 Speaker 2: her work is all online. I encourage you to support her, 17 00:01:08,920 --> 00:01:12,240 Speaker 2: to watch more of what she's done. She does great, 18 00:01:12,400 --> 00:01:16,520 Speaker 2: just brilliant investigative work, and hopefully we're going to deliver 19 00:01:16,640 --> 00:01:19,920 Speaker 2: her some new fans after today by amplifying her work. 20 00:01:19,959 --> 00:01:24,800 Speaker 3: Here we go year after year, Autism continues to rise 21 00:01:24,840 --> 00:01:28,520 Speaker 3: at an alarming rate in American children, one fact few 22 00:01:28,560 --> 00:01:32,520 Speaker 3: would dispute. So why is the topic so toxic in debate? 23 00:01:33,040 --> 00:01:34,840 Speaker 3: If you would want to hold a hearing on an 24 00:01:34,840 --> 00:01:38,720 Speaker 3: issue like vaccines and autism, your own leadership might fight 25 00:01:38,800 --> 00:01:43,120 Speaker 3: you on that because of the financial influence the pharmaceuticallysts. 26 00:01:43,120 --> 00:01:45,120 Speaker 4: So they wouldn't fight you. If they would kill it, 27 00:01:45,120 --> 00:01:45,679 Speaker 4: it's dead. 28 00:01:46,800 --> 00:01:49,960 Speaker 3: This week we tackle the taboo subject of autism and 29 00:01:50,080 --> 00:01:53,880 Speaker 3: links to vaccines as the Trump administration CDC begins to 30 00:01:54,080 --> 00:01:56,000 Speaker 3: actually follow the science. 31 00:01:57,080 --> 00:01:59,440 Speaker 2: If you're living with moderate to severe pleax. 32 00:01:59,200 --> 00:02:03,240 Speaker 4: Riasis or nineteen ninety seven, you rarely saw a drug 33 00:02:03,240 --> 00:02:06,800 Speaker 4: add and that's because the FDA enforced their regulation. 34 00:02:07,160 --> 00:02:09,440 Speaker 5: The new head of the FDA is promising to pump 35 00:02:09,480 --> 00:02:11,800 Speaker 5: the brakes on what he's called hill pushes. 36 00:02:12,320 --> 00:02:13,200 Speaker 2: We're going to crack down. 37 00:02:13,639 --> 00:02:16,480 Speaker 3: This week, a new sheriff steps into the wild West 38 00:02:16,600 --> 00:02:18,960 Speaker 3: of pharmaceutical advertising. 39 00:02:20,639 --> 00:02:24,160 Speaker 2: After fifty years of striking fear in America's enemies. 40 00:02:25,960 --> 00:02:28,360 Speaker 5: A farewell for a fierce airframe. 41 00:02:29,840 --> 00:02:32,560 Speaker 6: Is there any other plane in the Air Force that 42 00:02:32,600 --> 00:02:34,000 Speaker 6: can do what the A ten can do? 43 00:02:34,120 --> 00:02:36,000 Speaker 1: Not? In my opinion, we look at an. 44 00:02:35,919 --> 00:02:38,720 Speaker 6: Air base pivot toward the new face of war. 45 00:02:58,960 --> 00:03:02,440 Speaker 3: Welcome the full measure. I'm Cheryl Ackison. We begin today 46 00:03:02,480 --> 00:03:06,680 Speaker 3: with America's still growing autism epidemic, a crisis that in 47 00:03:06,760 --> 00:03:09,640 Speaker 3: terms of sheer numbers, deserves much more attention than it's 48 00:03:09,680 --> 00:03:12,640 Speaker 3: gotten over two and a half decades. The newest data, 49 00:03:12,720 --> 00:03:17,400 Speaker 3: updated every two years, continue to show an alarming climb. Today, 50 00:03:17,440 --> 00:03:20,920 Speaker 3: at least one in thirty one eight year olds have autism. 51 00:03:21,160 --> 00:03:23,440 Speaker 3: That's more than two point two million children. 52 00:03:24,400 --> 00:03:28,880 Speaker 7: One area that we are closely examining as the president 53 00:03:29,040 --> 00:03:29,760 Speaker 7: is vaccines. 54 00:03:29,919 --> 00:03:32,440 Speaker 3: But a White House event with President trumpet his side, 55 00:03:32,520 --> 00:03:36,360 Speaker 3: Health Secretary Robert F. Kennedy Junior announced a massive research 56 00:03:36,400 --> 00:03:42,040 Speaker 3: effort to identify possible root causes, including food dies, painkillers 57 00:03:42,120 --> 00:03:48,960 Speaker 3: during pregnancy, and vaccines. Seven year old twins Drew and 58 00:03:49,080 --> 00:03:52,040 Speaker 3: Dylan are taking a break from schoolwork, which can be 59 00:03:52,080 --> 00:03:56,640 Speaker 3: a special challenge. Their parents, Kimberly and Demique Adams, say 60 00:03:56,720 --> 00:03:59,960 Speaker 3: they first knew something was wrong when the boys were toddlers. 61 00:04:01,000 --> 00:04:07,760 Speaker 8: Their language started to regress. It seemed like their connection 62 00:04:08,840 --> 00:04:14,080 Speaker 8: was different around two a little bit you know before too, 63 00:04:14,800 --> 00:04:20,080 Speaker 8: and so they weren't responding to their names. So they 64 00:04:20,080 --> 00:04:21,960 Speaker 8: were just regressing in some of their skills. 65 00:04:22,360 --> 00:04:24,360 Speaker 3: Did you go to the doctor and say we're concerned, 66 00:04:24,520 --> 00:04:26,760 Speaker 3: or did the doctor do some milestone test or. 67 00:04:27,080 --> 00:04:29,280 Speaker 1: No, my wife's intuition drove it. 68 00:04:31,000 --> 00:04:33,719 Speaker 3: They enrolled the twins in early intervention and got the 69 00:04:33,760 --> 00:04:36,279 Speaker 3: official diagnosis autism. 70 00:04:37,400 --> 00:04:39,719 Speaker 8: You do grieve, you know, You know a lot of 71 00:04:39,720 --> 00:04:43,000 Speaker 8: people don't talk about that guilt that parents feel when 72 00:04:43,000 --> 00:04:46,760 Speaker 8: they get the diagnosis and their heartbroken because we were, 73 00:04:46,920 --> 00:04:50,039 Speaker 8: you know, because we didn't know what was ahead of us. 74 00:04:52,960 --> 00:04:56,719 Speaker 3: Drew and Dylan are among America's autistic children who were visible. 75 00:04:56,960 --> 00:04:59,560 Speaker 3: They can go out in public, but more than three 76 00:04:59,640 --> 00:05:04,159 Speaker 3: hundred thirty thousand children have autism so severe they're rarely 77 00:05:04,279 --> 00:05:11,680 Speaker 3: seen by the outside world. Mary Holland heads up the 78 00:05:11,720 --> 00:05:16,160 Speaker 3: nonprofit Children's Health Defense, which advocates on child health issues. 79 00:05:16,960 --> 00:05:19,560 Speaker 3: What is the current status of how much autism is 80 00:05:19,600 --> 00:05:20,920 Speaker 3: in the United States today? 81 00:05:21,120 --> 00:05:24,000 Speaker 9: So the current data is that one in thirty one 82 00:05:24,080 --> 00:05:28,479 Speaker 9: children age eight in the United States has autism. 83 00:05:28,839 --> 00:05:32,240 Speaker 3: Like many parents, Holland says, her son regressed and do 84 00:05:32,360 --> 00:05:35,840 Speaker 3: autism after his battery of vaccines at age two. 85 00:05:36,880 --> 00:05:40,719 Speaker 9: It was very clear there was no cojun explanation for 86 00:05:40,800 --> 00:05:44,040 Speaker 9: what was happening to him. Other than he had had 87 00:05:44,200 --> 00:05:49,120 Speaker 9: very serious toxic exposures through his early recommended vaccination schedule. 88 00:05:49,400 --> 00:05:52,360 Speaker 9: There's no such thing as a genetic epidemic. It must 89 00:05:52,440 --> 00:05:55,960 Speaker 9: be epigenetic or purely environmental. 90 00:05:55,480 --> 00:05:59,279 Speaker 3: And simple terms, meaning there could be a genetic component 91 00:05:59,360 --> 00:06:02,640 Speaker 3: that predispose as somebody to the injury if they have 92 00:06:02,920 --> 00:06:05,280 Speaker 3: some kind of trigger or other exposure. 93 00:06:05,440 --> 00:06:08,600 Speaker 9: So you brought this out most importantly, Cheryl in your 94 00:06:08,600 --> 00:06:11,240 Speaker 9: interview with Bernadine Healy, who was at the time the 95 00:06:11,320 --> 00:06:14,400 Speaker 9: head of or had just retired recently as the head 96 00:06:14,440 --> 00:06:16,200 Speaker 9: of the National Institutes of Health. 97 00:06:16,520 --> 00:06:19,320 Speaker 3: It sounds like you don't think the hypothesis of a 98 00:06:19,360 --> 00:06:22,720 Speaker 3: link between vaccines and autism is completely irrational. 99 00:06:22,880 --> 00:06:25,320 Speaker 5: When I first heard that there was a link between 100 00:06:25,360 --> 00:06:28,360 Speaker 5: autism and vaccines, I thought, well, that's silly. The more 101 00:06:28,400 --> 00:06:30,640 Speaker 5: you delve into it, if you look at the basic science, 102 00:06:30,680 --> 00:06:33,440 Speaker 5: if you look at the research that's been done in animals, 103 00:06:33,720 --> 00:06:37,120 Speaker 5: if you also look at some of these individual cases, 104 00:06:37,200 --> 00:06:40,560 Speaker 5: and if you look at the evidence that there is 105 00:06:40,640 --> 00:06:43,719 Speaker 5: no link, what I come away with is the question 106 00:06:43,920 --> 00:06:46,880 Speaker 5: has not been answered. This is the time when we 107 00:06:47,000 --> 00:06:50,400 Speaker 5: do have the opportunity to understand whether or not there 108 00:06:50,440 --> 00:06:56,320 Speaker 5: are susceptible children perhaps genetically, perhaps they have a metabolic issue, 109 00:06:56,480 --> 00:07:03,599 Speaker 5: mitochondrial disorder, immunological issue that makes them more susceptible to 110 00:07:04,080 --> 00:07:08,000 Speaker 5: vaccines plural, or to one particular vaccine, or to a 111 00:07:08,040 --> 00:07:10,000 Speaker 5: component of vaccine like mercury. 112 00:07:10,720 --> 00:07:13,880 Speaker 9: Probably there's a subset of people who have a certain 113 00:07:13,920 --> 00:07:17,400 Speaker 9: genetic predisposition, and when they come in contact with the 114 00:07:17,440 --> 00:07:21,320 Speaker 9: mercury in vaccines, or the aluminum in vaccines, or all 115 00:07:21,360 --> 00:07:25,800 Speaker 9: of the antigens, the formaldehyde, the polysorbate eighty, there's all 116 00:07:25,920 --> 00:07:29,880 Speaker 9: kinds of very toxic ingredients in the childhood vaccine schedule. 117 00:07:30,920 --> 00:07:35,800 Speaker 3: Associations between vaccines and autism are loudly disputed, yet well 118 00:07:35,840 --> 00:07:39,960 Speaker 3: documented in more than two hundred scientific papers in court documents. 119 00:07:40,440 --> 00:07:43,600 Speaker 3: In addition, autism once appeared on the warning label for 120 00:07:43,680 --> 00:07:49,320 Speaker 3: a DTaP vaccine. The government secretly agreed vaccines triggered autism 121 00:07:49,520 --> 00:07:52,560 Speaker 3: in a girl named Hannah Poling and paid her millions 122 00:07:52,560 --> 00:07:55,680 Speaker 3: in a landmark settlement, but had the record sealed so 123 00:07:55,760 --> 00:08:00,680 Speaker 3: the public wouldn't know CDC's top immunization safe The official, 124 00:08:00,840 --> 00:08:06,720 Speaker 3: Frank DeStefano, admitted vaccines may trigger autism in vulnerable children 125 00:08:06,920 --> 00:08:31,760 Speaker 3: like Hannopoling. CDC's senior scientist, William Thompson, claimed the agency 126 00:08:32,120 --> 00:08:36,439 Speaker 3: covered up data linking MMR vaccines to autism and black boys. 127 00:08:37,280 --> 00:08:42,360 Speaker 3: Famed pediatric neurologist doctor Andrew Zimmerman reversed his original stance 128 00:08:42,640 --> 00:08:47,280 Speaker 3: and determined vaccines can cause autism after all, but says 129 00:08:47,320 --> 00:08:50,760 Speaker 3: when he told Justice Department lawyers, they fired him as 130 00:08:50,760 --> 00:08:55,080 Speaker 3: an expert witness and covered up his opinion. And most recently, 131 00:08:55,120 --> 00:08:58,800 Speaker 3: a study reported vaccinated kids face a one hundred and 132 00:08:58,840 --> 00:09:05,400 Speaker 3: seventy percent greater risk of autism. Both Democrats and Republicans 133 00:09:05,440 --> 00:09:07,760 Speaker 3: have told me there's been a long standing effort in 134 00:09:07,800 --> 00:09:12,480 Speaker 3: Congress to protect the vaccine industry. If you would want 135 00:09:12,520 --> 00:09:15,280 Speaker 3: to hold a hearing on an issue like vaccines and autism, 136 00:09:15,960 --> 00:09:19,480 Speaker 3: your own leadership might fight you on that because of 137 00:09:19,520 --> 00:09:21,840 Speaker 3: the financial influence the pharmaceuticals. 138 00:09:21,840 --> 00:09:23,840 Speaker 4: No, they wouldn't fight you. They would kill it. 139 00:09:23,840 --> 00:09:24,400 Speaker 2: It's dead. 140 00:09:24,760 --> 00:09:27,880 Speaker 4: They don't even want to discuss it. It's dead on arrival. 141 00:09:28,040 --> 00:09:30,839 Speaker 4: If you, if you as an individual member, want to 142 00:09:30,880 --> 00:09:34,440 Speaker 4: take on the pharmaceutical industries, it's forgeted. 143 00:09:35,000 --> 00:09:37,920 Speaker 3: Can you describe an incident or just how that would go. 144 00:09:39,920 --> 00:09:42,520 Speaker 4: It would typically be in a hallway or on the street, 145 00:09:42,880 --> 00:09:45,959 Speaker 4: and you know, people would come up to you and say, 146 00:09:46,240 --> 00:09:50,640 Speaker 4: you know, you really need to you know, back off 147 00:09:50,679 --> 00:09:55,200 Speaker 4: on this. It could be it could be bad for 148 00:09:55,240 --> 00:09:57,600 Speaker 4: the community, or bad for the country, or bad for you. 149 00:09:59,280 --> 00:10:03,520 Speaker 3: For every study or allegation linking vaccines and autism, the 150 00:10:03,679 --> 00:10:07,720 Speaker 3: industry and other vaccine defenders have lengthy counterpoints. 151 00:10:08,640 --> 00:10:13,559 Speaker 6: No, vaccines do not cause autism. It just so happens 152 00:10:13,559 --> 00:10:16,960 Speaker 6: that kids get several vaccines around the same time that 153 00:10:17,120 --> 00:10:20,280 Speaker 6: some children start to show signs of autism. But that's 154 00:10:20,320 --> 00:10:22,440 Speaker 6: a coincidence, not a cause. 155 00:10:23,040 --> 00:10:25,600 Speaker 5: Based on dozens of studies and everything I know as 156 00:10:25,640 --> 00:10:28,520 Speaker 5: a physician and a scientist, there's no link between autism 157 00:10:28,720 --> 00:10:29,560 Speaker 5: and vaccines. 158 00:10:29,960 --> 00:10:32,120 Speaker 3: There are a lot of other chemical exposures kids are 159 00:10:32,120 --> 00:10:36,119 Speaker 3: getting today as well as someone who focused on vaccines 160 00:10:36,160 --> 00:10:39,160 Speaker 3: early on, are you looking at other contributing causes. 161 00:10:39,280 --> 00:10:41,960 Speaker 9: We're also looking at the water. We're also looking at 162 00:10:42,000 --> 00:10:44,640 Speaker 9: the air. We're also looking at the food supply. We're 163 00:10:44,640 --> 00:10:47,680 Speaker 9: looking at the pesticides. The're youth, and we believe that 164 00:10:47,760 --> 00:10:50,800 Speaker 9: it is a toxic load that we have to look at. 165 00:10:50,840 --> 00:10:54,679 Speaker 9: You can't look at one factor. They integrate, they're synergistic. 166 00:10:55,760 --> 00:10:59,320 Speaker 3: This past week, health Secretary, Kennedy said no stone will 167 00:10:59,360 --> 00:10:59,760 Speaker 3: be left on. 168 00:11:01,280 --> 00:11:05,839 Speaker 7: Historically, NIH has focused almost solely on politically save and 169 00:11:06,200 --> 00:11:11,839 Speaker 7: entirely fruitless research about the genetic drivers of autism, and 170 00:11:11,880 --> 00:11:14,880 Speaker 7: I would be like studying the genetic drivers of lung 171 00:11:14,960 --> 00:11:18,720 Speaker 7: cancer without looking at cigarettes. And that's what AIH has 172 00:11:18,720 --> 00:11:20,440 Speaker 7: been doing for twenty years. 173 00:11:21,520 --> 00:11:25,120 Speaker 3: In addition, based on NIH research, the FDA says it's 174 00:11:25,160 --> 00:11:29,160 Speaker 3: approving a prescription form of an essential B vitamin for 175 00:11:29,280 --> 00:11:35,679 Speaker 3: treating autistic children with speech issues. The American Academy of Pediatrics, 176 00:11:35,679 --> 00:11:39,240 Speaker 3: funded in part by the vaccine industry, doesn't want any 177 00:11:39,280 --> 00:11:43,400 Speaker 3: part of Kennedy's effort examining autism. When it comes to vaccines, 178 00:11:43,920 --> 00:11:47,319 Speaker 3: the group says devoting more research dollars to answer a 179 00:11:47,440 --> 00:11:50,360 Speaker 3: question that is already known does not add to our 180 00:11:50,400 --> 00:11:53,920 Speaker 3: knowledge about the safety of vaccines. It does a disservice 181 00:11:53,960 --> 00:11:58,040 Speaker 3: to individuals with autism and their families by diverting funding 182 00:11:58,080 --> 00:12:00,840 Speaker 3: that is needed to learn more about autism and how 183 00:12:00,880 --> 00:12:09,120 Speaker 3: we can strengthen supportive communities. For their part, the Adams 184 00:12:09,120 --> 00:12:13,400 Speaker 3: say they do not blame vaccines for their children's autism. 185 00:12:14,000 --> 00:12:17,319 Speaker 3: With help the twins that progressed from no language and 186 00:12:17,440 --> 00:12:20,800 Speaker 3: few skills to conversations and interactions. 187 00:12:21,440 --> 00:12:28,720 Speaker 8: Who I mean, we don't believe in a cure because 188 00:12:29,240 --> 00:12:31,800 Speaker 8: I don't believe it's a disease, right, So it's nothing 189 00:12:31,840 --> 00:12:35,320 Speaker 8: to cure. It's a neurotype, right, And so you have 190 00:12:35,400 --> 00:12:39,320 Speaker 8: to get the right services in order to adapt to 191 00:12:39,360 --> 00:12:42,000 Speaker 8: the way someone learns or someone thinks, or the way 192 00:12:42,040 --> 00:12:43,559 Speaker 8: someone's brain is wired. 193 00:12:44,520 --> 00:12:49,280 Speaker 1: But when I tell you the the what I got 194 00:12:49,320 --> 00:12:57,000 Speaker 1: from a how to love differently, yeah, it's nothing any 195 00:12:57,120 --> 00:12:59,720 Speaker 1: child could have gave me as far as me as 196 00:12:59,760 --> 00:13:03,240 Speaker 1: an individual evolving and developing, right. And I just think 197 00:13:03,280 --> 00:13:07,160 Speaker 1: when people see some of these things they think of 198 00:13:07,200 --> 00:13:12,200 Speaker 1: the negative, right, But like the special like joy I 199 00:13:12,240 --> 00:13:16,319 Speaker 1: get in their milestones, the small, small incremental milestones that 200 00:13:16,559 --> 00:13:18,160 Speaker 1: I just just took for branded if I had a 201 00:13:18,160 --> 00:13:20,400 Speaker 1: typical kid like you can't beat that. 202 00:13:21,200 --> 00:13:23,720 Speaker 3: For more on this story, listen to my podcast Full 203 00:13:23,760 --> 00:13:25,240 Speaker 3: Measure after Hours. 204 00:13:26,200 --> 00:13:29,160 Speaker 2: If you like the Michael Berry Show and podcast, please 205 00:13:29,400 --> 00:13:33,520 Speaker 2: tell one friend, and if you're so inclined, write a 206 00:13:33,640 --> 00:13:38,680 Speaker 2: nice review of our podcast. Comments, suggestions, questions, and interest 207 00:13:38,760 --> 00:13:42,640 Speaker 2: in being a corporate sponsor and partner can be communicated 208 00:13:42,679 --> 00:13:47,160 Speaker 2: directly to the show at our email address. Michael at 209 00:13:47,280 --> 00:13:51,120 Speaker 2: Michael Berryshow dot com or simply by clicking on our 210 00:13:51,120 --> 00:13:55,960 Speaker 2: website Michael Berryshow dot com. The Michael Berry Show and 211 00:13:56,120 --> 00:14:00,160 Speaker 2: Podcast is produced by Ramon Roeblis, The King of Dan. 212 00:14:01,480 --> 00:14:11,000 Speaker 2: Executive producer is Chad Knakanishi. Jim Mudd is the creative director. 213 00:14:11,800 --> 00:14:17,360 Speaker 2: Voices Jingles, Tomfoolery and Shenanigans are provided by Chance McLean. 214 00:14:18,200 --> 00:14:22,680 Speaker 2: Director of Research is Sandy Peterson. Emily Bull is our 215 00:14:22,720 --> 00:14:30,160 Speaker 2: assistant listener and superfan. Contributions are appreciated and often incorporated 216 00:14:30,360 --> 00:14:33,920 Speaker 2: into our production. Where possible, we give credit. Where not, 217 00:14:34,440 --> 00:14:37,640 Speaker 2: we take all the credit for ourselves. God bless the 218 00:14:37,680 --> 00:14:43,360 Speaker 2: memory of Rush Limbaugh. Long live Elvis, be a simple 219 00:14:43,400 --> 00:14:49,240 Speaker 2: man like Leonard Skinnard told you, and God bless America. Finally, 220 00:14:49,960 --> 00:14:53,720 Speaker 2: if you know a veteran suffering from PTSD, call Camp 221 00:14:53,760 --> 00:14:59,600 Speaker 2: Hope at eight seven seven seven one seven PTSD and 222 00:14:59,680 --> 00:15:04,040 Speaker 2: a combat veteran will answer the phone to provide free counseling.