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Speaker 1: Hello, listeners. Just a quick content warning for this episode

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Speaker 1: for rape allegations, because in the movie we're discussing today,

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Speaker 1: a character falsely accuses another character of rape, and we

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Speaker 1: discussed that pretty extensively toward the middle of the episode,

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Speaker 1: just so you were aware of that ahead of time.

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Speaker 1: Enjoy the episode. On the Bechdel Cast, the questions asked

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Speaker 1: if movies have women in um, are all their discussions

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Speaker 1: just boyfriends and husbands, or do they have individualism the patriarchy?

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Speaker 1: Zef invest start changing it with the Bechdel Cast. Hello Jamie,

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Speaker 1: my old friend. I've come to talk with you again

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Speaker 1: so that we can pass the Bechdel test. And here's

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Speaker 1: to you, Mrs Becktel Cast. The fans love us more

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Speaker 1: than we can know. Whoa Mrs Becktel hast thoughts. I

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Speaker 1: love it? I have like I can't stop smiling. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: Mrs pectel Cast, that's new name of our show. Who

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Speaker 1: she married to herself? Wow? Oh my god, I love

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Speaker 1: that for her. Wow. That literally put like butterflies in

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Speaker 1: my stomach for some reason. I don't I don't know

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Speaker 1: what that wow? What would art? We would be? We

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Speaker 1: would be? Would it be Durante and Loft? Funkele or

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Speaker 1: Loftus and Durrant Funcle. Durrant Funcle is a mouthful I'm

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Speaker 1: happy with. I would happily accept Loft Funcle jam Loft Funcle. Whoa,

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Speaker 1: Oh my gosh, Okay, that means you get two very

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Speaker 1: carry Fisher God, you're so lucky. Wait did Paul sign Wow?

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Speaker 1: I didn't even know about that. Yeah, it was a

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Speaker 1: well spoiler alert didn't end well because they got divorced.

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Speaker 1: I don't know that much about it. I just know

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Speaker 1: that I am a Carrie Fisher's stand for life and

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Speaker 1: Paul Simon horror feelings so him. Yeah, I think I'm

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Speaker 1: going to have to kill him. Nope, that's kidding anyway. Hello,

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Speaker 1: my name is Kate Lynn drunk Funkle. Let's just both

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Speaker 1: be our guard Funcle. I think that that's Honestly, I'm

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Speaker 1: pretty and again like classic rockheads, please correct us, because

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Speaker 1: I don't have a ton of my Honestly, I'm at

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Speaker 1: my dad's house right now and he was trying to

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Speaker 1: tell me about Simon and Garlf uncle and I just

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Speaker 1: could not be bothered. I was like, I'm busy, So

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Speaker 1: he probably could have supplemented this conversation, but Um, I'm

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Speaker 1: pretty sure Art Garl Funkele was like good vibes, less

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Speaker 1: talented maybe, and Paul Simon was like almost like Paul McCartney,

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Speaker 1: like I'm this, I'm I'm very talented, and he was right,

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Speaker 1: but he was an asshole one of those situations. So

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Speaker 1: I feel like being of the Funkle variety, and I'm

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Speaker 1: sure our girlf uncle is super talented, but he just

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Speaker 1: had a good personality and people are like men are assholes,

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Speaker 1: which brings us to at the time. Also, my name

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Speaker 1: is jam Loft Funkle and this is the battle cast,

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Speaker 1: so I guess I'm Kate Kate Kate dr Funkele, I

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Speaker 1: like der Funkelen. Do you remember the guy Okay, this

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Speaker 1: is not passing the battle cast? Do remember that guy,

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Speaker 1: Brian Dunkelman. No, who's that? Okay, this is the worst

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Speaker 1: story ever. I'm falling asleep already. But he was like

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Speaker 1: the original host of American Idol pre Ryan Seacrest. He

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Speaker 1: was like a host of maybe I don't remember like,

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Speaker 1: but his name was Brian Dunkleman, and I just remember

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Speaker 1: him really well because he had a comedy album he

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Speaker 1: released and it was called American Dunkleman and that made

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Speaker 1: me laugh. I don't know what he was like, I

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Speaker 1: can't picture him, but I was like American Dunkleman. That's

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Speaker 1: hilarious as Kate dr Funkele or Jam Funcle. So what

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Speaker 1: the podcast about? So? This is the Bechtel Cast, in

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Speaker 1: which we examine movies through an intersectional feminist lens, and

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Speaker 1: we use a little something called the Bechtel Test, which

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Speaker 1: we simply use as a jumping off point. But that,

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Speaker 1: of course, is a media metric created by queer cartoonist

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Speaker 1: Alison Bechtel, sometimes called the Bechtel Wallace Test. There are

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Speaker 1: different versions of the test. The one that we use

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Speaker 1: is this two characters of a marginalized gender have to

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Speaker 1: have names, they have to speak to each other, and

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Speaker 1: that conversation has to be about something other than a man.

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Speaker 1: And ideally it's a sub stantial conversation. You know, it's

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Speaker 1: two or more lines of dialogue, and it is plot relevant.

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Speaker 1: Plot relevant. You say, yeah, okay, well a spoiler alert

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Speaker 1: not here, not in this one, Oh my god, aggressively

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Speaker 1: not so. But but that said, I think that this

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Speaker 1: is going to be a fascinating conversation. We've been getting

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Speaker 1: requests for this movie for some time, because I'm pretty

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Speaker 1: sure this podcast has been going on for as long

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Speaker 1: as this movie has been out, is that correct? Yeah?

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Speaker 1: Decade decades, fifty five years correct? Um, Today we're covering

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Speaker 1: feminist masterpiece The Graduate. Oh my goodness, so much to

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Speaker 1: talk about. What is your history with The Graduate? The Graduate?

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Speaker 1: And I, Um, I definitely didn't see it before college.

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Speaker 1: I feel like I had to watch this as a

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Speaker 1: part of a film class or something. I will say

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Speaker 1: I've never been a particular fan of this movie. I

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Speaker 1: mean I haven't seen it, and at least at least

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Speaker 1: since before we've been doing this show. I've never watched

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Speaker 1: it critically before. I just always have kind of been

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Speaker 1: like my recollection of my reaction to it was like,

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Speaker 1: I really like and Bancroft, but this movie is boring

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Speaker 1: to me. Like I just didn't. I just thought it

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Speaker 1: was boring. And I thought that and and and in

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Speaker 1: my defense, I was right. I thought the lead character

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Speaker 1: was really boring. And then looking when you look at

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Speaker 1: it critically, you're like, well, he's a lot of things,

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Speaker 1: but um, but I was just like, this is so

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Speaker 1: boring to me. I just didn't like it. But I

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Speaker 1: will say I am a big Mike Nichols fan. I

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Speaker 1: absolutely love Mike Nichols. He directed two of my favorite

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Speaker 1: movies ever, Who's Afraid of Virginia Wolf and Um The

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Speaker 1: Bird Cage, and he's an icon. I really admire his

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Speaker 1: work Rest in Power. I know this is one of

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Speaker 1: his most famous movies, but it's just not one of

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Speaker 1: my favorite. And then rewatching it for this, I was like, what,

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Speaker 1: this is kind of like a mine field for us,

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Speaker 1: because obviously it's like you can't like leverage two values

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Speaker 1: against a movie like this. But I feel like it

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Speaker 1: really does open a lot of doors for discussion with

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Speaker 1: like how like young boomers were perceived when they were

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Speaker 1: coming of age, and like because we know how that

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Speaker 1: story ends, it's like it's it's just it's just it's interesting.

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Speaker 1: Much like Carrie Fisher and Paul Simon's marriage, it doesn't

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Speaker 1: end well, right, and so so looking back on it,

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Speaker 1: I think this will be a fun discussion. But yeah,

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Speaker 1: I will say still kind of just like even criticisms

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Speaker 1: aside of which I have, you know, plenty, I just

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Speaker 1: think it's kind of a boring movie. Caitlyn, what's your

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Speaker 1: history with this movie? I don't disagree. I saw it

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Speaker 1: in college, probably for the same reason. Either I had

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Speaker 1: to watch it for a film class or it was

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Speaker 1: just one of those things it's where it was like,

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Speaker 1: it's a great American class, It's like I need to

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Speaker 1: have seen it. So I watched it probably when I

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Speaker 1: was like a freshman or sophomore, and I only watched

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Speaker 1: it that once. And I finally understood the reference that

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Speaker 1: Wayne's World two makes at the end of that movie,

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Speaker 1: because it's spoofs. You're talking high salutant brain stuff. Yeah exactly.

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Speaker 1: I was like, oh, I now understand what Wayne's World

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Speaker 1: two had been spoofing all along, and so that was

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Speaker 1: my main connection to it, isn't it but heavily referenced

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Speaker 1: in American Pie as well, like Stiffler's Mom. Like I

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Speaker 1: feel like there's like Mrs Robinson references in regards to

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Speaker 1: Stiffler's Mom an American Pie another feminist classic. Obviously, I

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Speaker 1: don't remember if it right. I don't remember if it

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Speaker 1: is like directly referencing it or if it's just like

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Speaker 1: homage kind of thing. Couldn't I can't say, but um, yeah,

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Speaker 1: I mean this movie certainly has a major cultural influenced

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Speaker 1: the whole like plastics thing, Like I kind of forgot

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Speaker 1: about that that. Yeah, like it's I mean, this movie

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Speaker 1: is super influential. I had a good time reading about

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Speaker 1: the production history and like sort of how because there's

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Speaker 1: just there's a lot of interesting production stuff going on

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Speaker 1: as well. Ultimately, yeah, this movie, uh is well, we'll

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Speaker 1: get into it in just a second. It's not my

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Speaker 1: fav really at all. I do feel like there's like interest.

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Speaker 1: I'm trying to think of nice things to say at

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Speaker 1: the beginning. I love Anne Bancroft, I love Katherine Ross,

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Speaker 1: I love Mike Nichols. I think the cinematography is interesting

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Speaker 1: at times and other times maybe not so much. So

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Speaker 1: maybe that wasn't nice. I think there's some interesting editing choices.

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Speaker 1: I think, yes, some of the montage. The montages are fun.

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Speaker 1: You know what one thing I was thinking and I

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Speaker 1: was like, maybe is this ground zero for this trope.

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Speaker 1: Do you remember when we were like, for whatever reason,

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Speaker 1: we did a couple of coming of age movies. They

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Speaker 1: were like me of age movies about young women swimming

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Speaker 1: pooling the swimming pool. At Yes, I had the same

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Speaker 1: thought that was this where the swimming pool like rich

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Speaker 1: kid goes into a swimming pool to really think about

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Speaker 1: the fact that they're an adult. Now vibe is that?

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Speaker 1: Do think maybe this movie pioneered that trope? Perhaps Wow,

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Speaker 1: because it happens in what happens in eighth grade, it

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Speaker 1: happens in anything, It happens in Ladybird, it happens in

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Speaker 1: something else, not necessarily a rich it's not always a

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Speaker 1: rich person, but it happens that a person with a

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Speaker 1: pool's house. It's a white person going underwater to reflect

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Speaker 1: about their past, present in future. Now, what the hell

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Speaker 1: is that all about? I get I get it. It's

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Speaker 1: a metaphor. It's a metaphor um. But I was like,

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Speaker 1: maybe this is the where it started. Could be question mark.

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Speaker 1: I don't we don't really know about many years that

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Speaker 1: came before this because we're just really young, so kind

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Speaker 1: of hard to say, um, what was happening? Yeah, but yeah,

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Speaker 1: I think this is like this is wild too, because

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Speaker 1: it was like putting me in my my caffy act

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Speaker 1: cast bag of just like wanting to talk about second

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Speaker 1: wave feminism and like the you know, complicated politics of

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Speaker 1: second wave feminism and also this movie coming out before

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Speaker 1: Roe V. Wade another. Just lots of things to discuss,

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Speaker 1: so shall we get into it. Let's do it. Here's

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Speaker 1: the recap. We meet Ben Braddock played by Dustin Hoffman.

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Speaker 1: He is returning to Los Angeles. Ever heard of it?

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Speaker 1: He's twenty years old? Question mark, he's thirty years old. Okay.

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Speaker 1: I learned about this from at the time of scholarly

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Speaker 1: journal Wikipedia. That yeah, Dustin Hoffman was just shy of

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Speaker 1: his thirtieth birthday when filming this movie. There's six years apart,

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Speaker 1: and Bancroft was thirty five when this movie was shot.

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Speaker 1: And Bancraft absolute fucking legend. The casting for this was

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Speaker 1: weird because it was like they clearly I feel the

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Speaker 1: makeup choices were to make her look older, But when

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Speaker 1: Mike Nichols was given the opportunity to cast older actresses,

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Speaker 1: he said no, And You're just like, but what I mean?

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Speaker 1: I love a Bancraft. I feel like she is so

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Speaker 1: amazing in this role. But then like he could have

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Speaker 1: cast Ava Gardner and you're just like, so why not

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Speaker 1: do that? It boggles the mind. We can't ask. Oh,

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Speaker 1: maybe it's because you know, there's a huge bias in

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Speaker 1: Hollywood against older actors who are women. Maybe I totally yes,

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Speaker 1: and I feel like it does. But it like speaks

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Speaker 1: to that moment specifically too, because I feel like now

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Speaker 1: it's kind of like a bit more of a reverse

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Speaker 1: where it's like I cannot think of many modern examples

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Speaker 1: of a younger actor, especially a woman being aged up.

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Speaker 1: I feel like it happens in the reverse all the time,

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Speaker 1: and like your whole thing with like every woman needs

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Speaker 1: to look about thirty seven years old rule. Yeah, I

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Speaker 1: feel like Sandra Bullock, who is sixty or nearsick like

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Speaker 1: she's some age an icon, a legend, I mean, an

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Speaker 1: absolute icon. She's older than you would probably think she

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Speaker 1: might be, but I feel like she's still playing roles

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Speaker 1: for like forty year old women early four. Yeah, it

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Speaker 1: does feel like and this certainly wasn't, as far as

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Speaker 1: I know, a thing in the sixties. I just thought

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Speaker 1: it was interesting that, like, there's obviously, I mean, in

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Speaker 1: the casting process, the writing process, a ton of sexism

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Speaker 1: at play here. But I just it was like it

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Speaker 1: was a it was a flavor of sexism I hadn't

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Speaker 1: seen in a while. I was like, wow, aging like

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Speaker 1: it almost feels like and I don't have I don't

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Speaker 1: this is my working through this in real time, but

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Speaker 1: like it feels like, Okay, well I I literally refused

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Speaker 1: to have an actor over forty on screen, but I

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Speaker 1: need a forty ish year old character, So let me

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Speaker 1: age up a woman in her mid thirties. And you're

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Speaker 1: just like so much work for what? Like it's just

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Speaker 1: I mean, it's all a lot of work. And to

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Speaker 1: be clear, we're not saying that, like, you know, any

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Speaker 1: actor over forties should you know, like if if as

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Speaker 1: far as like cosmetic surgery goes orything is still look younger,

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Speaker 1: like live your life. But I do feel like there

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Speaker 1: you can't ignore the fact that there is that pressure

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Speaker 1: now for anyways women aging. We can't have it. It's

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Speaker 1: against the law. It's immoral and illegal. Yeah it's not right.

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Speaker 1: Uh okay. So Ben Braddock is Dustin Hoffman. He is

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Speaker 1: returning to Los Angeles after finishing college. His parents are

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Speaker 1: throwing him a like welcome back party with all of

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Speaker 1: their family friends and none of his friends that are

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Speaker 1: his age. Anyway, I don't think he has any friends,

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Speaker 1: I mean, which is well, we'll talk about that, but like, yeah,

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Speaker 1: I don't I don't think I think that's one of

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Speaker 1: benjam means problems he doesn't have friends could be so

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Speaker 1: despite him doing very well in college, he expresses all

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Speaker 1: these anxieties and doubts. Shout out to the movie doubt

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Speaker 1: about thank you for that. Of course, he expresses all

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Speaker 1: these anxieties about his future. And that's when a family

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Speaker 1: friend is like plastics and Ben is like okay. Ben

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Speaker 1: gets away from the party and goes into his room

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Speaker 1: where Mrs Robinson played by and Bancroft. I've heard of her,

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Speaker 1: I've heard of her another family friend. She comes in

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Speaker 1: thinking it's the bathroom. They chat for a moment, and

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Speaker 1: then she asks Ben to drive her home, which he

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Speaker 1: reluctantly does. She then invites him in to her house

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Speaker 1: under the pretense that she's scared to go in alone

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Speaker 1: in the dark. He reluctantly goes in. She's offering him

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Speaker 1: a drink. She's really trying to keep him there. We're

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Speaker 1: in a danger zone. Oh yeah, what is this top gun?

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Speaker 1: Because danger zone alert the way that I do pretty

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Speaker 1: clearly remember how I didn't remember the specifics, but I

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Speaker 1: remember like what happens towards the beginning of the movie, obviously,

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Speaker 1: because that's where all the famous lines of the movie

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Speaker 1: are kind of in the first ten minutes, but it

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Speaker 1: does make the rest of the movie extremely difficult to

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Speaker 1: talk about because it starts with, well, let's let's get

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Speaker 1: to it, I suppose. So she's not taking no for

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Speaker 1: an answer. He's trying to leave, and then he's like,

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Speaker 1: Mrs Robinson, you're trying to seduce me, aren't you? And

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Speaker 1: she's like, no, I'm not. I mean I'll go hey,

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Speaker 1: and then there's the shot of him like framed around

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Speaker 1: her leg and it's it's iconic but headless woman of

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Speaker 1: Hollywood Hannon right exactly. So she denies trying to seduce him.

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Speaker 1: But then and then she shows him a portrait of

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Speaker 1: her daughter, Elaine, who is close to his age. Is

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Speaker 1: that a rich person thing? Or is this movie like

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Speaker 1: Weirdo where they're like, yeah, I have a had a

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Speaker 1: painting commission of my daughter. It's in her bedroom. They're like,

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Speaker 1: why don't I have a painting of myself in my

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Speaker 1: for It's it's interesting, I don't know what rich people

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Speaker 1: are are doing, Like, is that a sixties thing? Is

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Speaker 1: that a rich people thing? Is that a pervert thing?

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Speaker 1: We don't know. We simply don't know. So Mrs Robinson

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Speaker 1: is all like, no, I'm not trying to seduce you,

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Speaker 1: and then she does get naked in front of him.

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Speaker 1: Ben continues to be very uncomfortable and he runs out,

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Speaker 1: but on his way out of the house, he runs

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Speaker 1: into Mr Robinson. Mrs Robinson's her husband, and he's like, Ben,

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Speaker 1: you should relax, take go, load off, have a few flings.

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Speaker 1: Even you're young, get out there and fuck. Every adult

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Speaker 1: in this movie thinks Ben is so interesting, amazing, irresistible,

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Speaker 1: and you're just like, I'm lost, I'm lost, what are

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Speaker 1: you talking about. It's so funny because I do think that, like,

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Speaker 1: as I was watching this movie, it his character, which

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Speaker 1: we'll talk about, you know, but like his character scans

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Speaker 1: to me the way that like back in the day,

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Speaker 1: boomers would talk about millennials, where it was like you're

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Speaker 1: just moving back in with your parents, you're so entitled,

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Speaker 1: you're mooching off the blah blah blah, which was like

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Speaker 1: a fallacy. We were just um, you know, excluded from

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Speaker 1: ever being able to own property, but and suffocating under

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Speaker 1: our student loan debt. But sure we were lazy, came

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Speaker 1: of age during a recession, but that the boomers caused. Sure,

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Speaker 1: but fine, but it just is funny because Ben is

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Speaker 1: doing the big that they would go on to say

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Speaker 1: that we were doing. But he's actually doing the thing.

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Speaker 1: He's like just hanging out by the pool every day

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Speaker 1: and doing anything. He's living this like I would say

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Speaker 1: it's hedonistic, but he's so boring that it's like, I

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Speaker 1: can't even call it that in good his life seems

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Speaker 1: creepy and boring. True. Well, yeah, I suppose let's continue.

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Speaker 1: Let's um. So Ben considers this and then jumps in

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Speaker 1: the swimming pool and has one of those swimming pool

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Speaker 1: coming of age moments, which I guess causes him to

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Speaker 1: change his mind. Has in a scoopa suit, which is interesting. Yeah, right,

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Speaker 1: I think the first Usually it's just a bathing suit,

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Speaker 1: but for him, there's some equipment involved. He's rich. He

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Speaker 1: needed a whole breathing apparatus. Kind of funny. He needed

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Speaker 1: to sit down at the bottom at the bottom of

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Speaker 1: the pool for a long time and have a long

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Speaker 1: think about whether or not he was going to have

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Speaker 1: sex with Mrs Robinson. Yeah, that's how you that's how

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Speaker 1: you know he had to think about it. Sco Okay,

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Speaker 1: this movie has its moments. I didn't hate Dustin Hoffman

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Speaker 1: falling into a pool in a scuba suit. There are

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Speaker 1: some funny satirical moments that I appreciated, I mean, Mike

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Speaker 1: Nichols Man, but those were only very small punctuation marks

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Speaker 1: in an otherwise pretty insufferable movie. Anyway, Okay, So he

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Speaker 1: changes his mind and calls up Mrs Robinson and invites

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Speaker 1: her to the Taft Hotel where he is currently just

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Speaker 1: hanging out at. They get a room. He's nervous and

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Speaker 1: she's like, is this your first time? And he's like,

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Speaker 1: um no, oh my god. He has this like I mean,

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Speaker 1: and I do feel like there's at least some self

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Speaker 1: awareness and commentary this. I want to believe that. Sometimes

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Speaker 1: it's very unclear, but like whenever he's like his masculinity

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Speaker 1: is questioned, he like like gets very angry, gets very angry,

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Speaker 1: very upset, and I don't I don't like him. I

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Speaker 1: don't like him. I think he's so he's like, no,

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Speaker 1: I've fucked before. And then the lights go off and

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Speaker 1: this is the start of a secret affair that they have.

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Speaker 1: We get a montage of mostly just him being boring,

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Speaker 1: which I know is like I think the movie knows

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Speaker 1: he's like just kind of hanging out and being boring,

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Speaker 1: but it's like it's just boring. But I think the

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Speaker 1: movie is telegraphing to us, oh my gosh, look at

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Speaker 1: this poor, rich white kid with his college degree and

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Speaker 1: look how aimless he is. Don't you feel bad for him?

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Speaker 1: And it's like, yeah, of course I don't, right, But

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Speaker 1: it's like, but that's all that's like in retrospect, to

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Speaker 1: like it is such a weird thing because I feel

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Speaker 1: like there's similar vibes that at least I've gotten from

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Speaker 1: like some Gen X teen movies, where it's like the

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Speaker 1: underlying messages like my parents like give me anything I want,

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Speaker 1: and I feel so suffocated when it's like when I

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Speaker 1: when you like fast forward to generations that like, well

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Speaker 1: that wouldn't be so bad, really what it? You know?

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Speaker 1: Like it like rings super hollow and shitty in retros,

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Speaker 1: But yeah, it's like I know that we're he's I

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Speaker 1: just am like this character is unbelievably boring, to the

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Speaker 1: point where when he gets to Berkeley and they're like,

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Speaker 1: are you a like a rabble rouser? And You're like,

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Speaker 1: are you kidding me? For the most boring man alive.

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Speaker 1: He wishes he's literally just a garden variety stalker. Like, sorry, okay,

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Speaker 1: so we get this montage. Also, meanwhile, his parents are

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Speaker 1: on his case about what he's doing with his life

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Speaker 1: and how do you spend your time, Ben, But they're

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Speaker 1: also like, we get it. You should have a beer.

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Speaker 1: You deserve it. You're awesome, you're amazing, But like, have

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Speaker 1: you thought about going to school? No? Okay, And it's

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Speaker 1: like these parents are absurdly chill, like everyone is rooting

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Speaker 1: for him so hard. Yeah, and I'm sort of like

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Speaker 1: kick him out. Truly. There's a moment where his dad

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Speaker 1: is like, get off your ass and go to grad school.

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Speaker 1: And then I'm over here like it is not worth

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Speaker 1: the money right where it's like it's he's super privileged

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Speaker 1: that like that is and it's it's like heavily applied that,

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Speaker 1: like he's not going to pay for grad school and

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Speaker 1: in the sixties, if mom, like why doesn't he just

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Speaker 1: what is he even doing? Do you whatever? I just

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00:23:42,400 --> 00:23:44,719
Speaker 1: feel like it's it's fine to be, you know, I

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Speaker 1: get like twenty one aimless, don't know what you want

381
00:23:47,400 --> 00:23:50,439
Speaker 1: to do with your life? Fine, relatable, but you know,

382
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Speaker 1: you gotta do something, you gotta do something like something

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Speaker 1: and just you have every privilege and the just do something.

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Speaker 1: Get into pottery, Ben, I don't know why I said pottery. Hey,

385
00:24:02,320 --> 00:24:08,080
Speaker 1: you know that's that's something. It's something. Okay. So he's

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Speaker 1: again just like lying in a in the pool most

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Speaker 1: of the time, and then Mr Robinson comes over at

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Speaker 1: some point and he's like, hey, my daughter Elaine will

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Speaker 1: be home from Berkeley soon. You should take her out. Ben.

390
00:24:19,040 --> 00:24:22,439
Speaker 1: Then I think a few months pass. The affair between

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Speaker 1: Ben and Mrs Robinson is still going on. It's still secret.

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Speaker 1: At one point Ben is like, hey, Mrs Robinson, can

393
00:24:30,160 --> 00:24:33,480
Speaker 1: we have a conversation for once, and then she tells

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Speaker 1: him about her unhappy marriage and how they only got

395
00:24:38,240 --> 00:24:44,040
Speaker 1: married because she got gregnant with their daughter Elaine. I

396
00:24:44,080 --> 00:24:47,560
Speaker 1: do kind of appreciate that she, I mean, the dynamics

397
00:24:47,560 --> 00:24:49,760
Speaker 1: of this relationship there's a lot to discuss, but like

398
00:24:50,160 --> 00:24:52,000
Speaker 1: I do kind of she does seem to know that.

399
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Speaker 1: Intellectually he has a flop and and she's like, I

400
00:24:56,040 --> 00:24:58,240
Speaker 1: don't want to have conversations with you. I don't need

401
00:24:58,280 --> 00:25:00,600
Speaker 1: to know what's going on in your mind. D And

402
00:25:00,640 --> 00:25:03,479
Speaker 1: You're like, yeah, based on my appraisal of this character.

403
00:25:04,000 --> 00:25:05,639
Speaker 1: I know, I think that we're supposed to, like in

404
00:25:05,680 --> 00:25:09,360
Speaker 1: that moment, find her like a little cold. But I

405
00:25:09,400 --> 00:25:11,719
Speaker 1: was like, yeah, what does he have to what does

406
00:25:11,760 --> 00:25:15,760
Speaker 1: he bringing to the table really, you know nothing? Yeah. Yeah.

407
00:25:15,960 --> 00:25:19,159
Speaker 1: So then Ben jokes about taking a Lane out on

408
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Speaker 1: a date, but and then Mrs Robinson is like, don't

409
00:25:22,119 --> 00:25:25,719
Speaker 1: you freaking dare do that? And he's like, Okay, I

410
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Speaker 1: promise I'll never take her out on a date, not

411
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Speaker 1: after calling her a string of very mean things. And

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Speaker 1: then also he like does this weird little gaslighting, like uh,

413
00:25:38,040 --> 00:25:42,800
Speaker 1: a little a little swoop, it's a little swoop of

414
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Speaker 1: gas where he does bring up he's like, oh what

415
00:25:45,960 --> 00:25:48,520
Speaker 1: why why don't I go out with your daughter? Like

416
00:25:48,560 --> 00:25:50,560
Speaker 1: and he's working with her. But then like two minutes

417
00:25:50,640 --> 00:25:52,760
Speaker 1: later he's like, I didn't even bring this up. I

418
00:25:52,800 --> 00:25:55,760
Speaker 1: was like, you fully brought it up. You sorry, that

419
00:25:55,840 --> 00:25:59,720
Speaker 1: like triggered my like bad relationship brain where I'm just

420
00:25:59,760 --> 00:26:03,119
Speaker 1: like you can't tell yes you did. He did, he

421
00:26:03,160 --> 00:26:09,119
Speaker 1: did bring it up. Both of these characters are so manipulative. Okay,

422
00:26:09,359 --> 00:26:12,080
Speaker 1: So Ben is like, I promise I won't take your

423
00:26:12,160 --> 00:26:15,960
Speaker 1: daughter Elaine on a date, but then Ben's parents are

424
00:26:16,000 --> 00:26:20,280
Speaker 1: pressuring him to ask Elaine out, and he has no choice,

425
00:26:20,920 --> 00:26:24,480
Speaker 1: so he takes Elane, who we finally meet on screen,

426
00:26:25,160 --> 00:26:27,639
Speaker 1: played by Katherine Ross. We were like, oh my god,

427
00:26:27,800 --> 00:26:31,040
Speaker 1: Oh my gosh, Catherine, I love Stepford, I love Butch

428
00:26:31,080 --> 00:26:34,760
Speaker 1: Cassidy and the Sundance Kid. So he takes her out

429
00:26:34,800 --> 00:26:37,080
Speaker 1: on a date, but he's an asshole about it, and

430
00:26:37,119 --> 00:26:39,359
Speaker 1: he takes her to this like kind of strip club

431
00:26:39,400 --> 00:26:42,560
Speaker 1: type place and she's like, what the funk, dude, and

432
00:26:42,600 --> 00:26:45,080
Speaker 1: he's like, yeah, I see your point. He makes her

433
00:26:45,119 --> 00:26:49,679
Speaker 1: cry and he assaulted dancer, and then he and then

434
00:26:49,680 --> 00:26:53,080
Speaker 1: he surprised kiss. I wouldn't even call that. I feel

435
00:26:53,080 --> 00:26:54,679
Speaker 1: like it was worse than a surprise kids, because she

436
00:26:54,680 --> 00:26:57,760
Speaker 1: was actively in the middle of being like I It

437
00:26:57,800 --> 00:27:00,280
Speaker 1: wasn't even just like, oh, there's a vibe and someone

438
00:27:00,320 --> 00:27:03,160
Speaker 1: kisses without checking in. It was like she was just crying,

439
00:27:03,720 --> 00:27:05,760
Speaker 1: Get me the funk out of here. I will not

440
00:27:05,880 --> 00:27:07,960
Speaker 1: stop crying. She just literally was like, I'm not going

441
00:27:08,000 --> 00:27:10,520
Speaker 1: to stop crying, right, and then he lunges at her.

442
00:27:10,640 --> 00:27:12,880
Speaker 1: I don't know what that. I feel like it's it's

443
00:27:13,040 --> 00:27:15,480
Speaker 1: more severe than a surprise kiss, though, because you're just like,

444
00:27:15,600 --> 00:27:17,480
Speaker 1: she's in the middle of telling you how what a

445
00:27:17,480 --> 00:27:20,840
Speaker 1: horrible time she's having with you. What if okay, maybe

446
00:27:20,880 --> 00:27:23,560
Speaker 1: there's a spectrum here. What if it's like an attack

447
00:27:23,720 --> 00:27:27,760
Speaker 1: kiss it kind of it? Like yeah, And it fully

448
00:27:27,800 --> 00:27:31,080
Speaker 1: works because Elaine's character, as we'll talk about, needs a

449
00:27:31,080 --> 00:27:33,280
Speaker 1: good therapist, and she makes no sense. Her choice is

450
00:27:33,320 --> 00:27:36,240
Speaker 1: to me, I just I worry about her character is

451
00:27:36,280 --> 00:27:40,160
Speaker 1: written in such a way that you're like, what, Elaine,

452
00:27:40,320 --> 00:27:42,960
Speaker 1: what is going on in that head of yours? Oh?

453
00:27:42,960 --> 00:27:48,800
Speaker 1: My god, we simply cannot understand. Okay, So they start

454
00:27:49,359 --> 00:27:52,840
Speaker 1: having a nice time after he attacked kisses her. They

455
00:27:53,320 --> 00:27:56,800
Speaker 1: you know, have a little meal together, they're chatting, they're bonding,

456
00:27:57,119 --> 00:27:59,960
Speaker 1: although we don't really hear their dialogue, so we don't

457
00:28:00,280 --> 00:28:02,480
Speaker 1: know what they're talking about, or what they have in common,

458
00:28:02,560 --> 00:28:04,800
Speaker 1: or why they like each other, which is another huge

459
00:28:04,800 --> 00:28:07,639
Speaker 1: problem I have with this movie anyway, But we we

460
00:28:07,720 --> 00:28:12,359
Speaker 1: do hear Ben tell Elaine about an affair that he's

461
00:28:12,400 --> 00:28:16,120
Speaker 1: been having with an older, married woman, although he obviously

462
00:28:16,160 --> 00:28:19,080
Speaker 1: does not say that it's with her mother, you know,

463
00:28:19,160 --> 00:28:24,400
Speaker 1: he says that she has a son. He just you know, lies, right,

464
00:28:25,040 --> 00:28:28,159
Speaker 1: He also says, but don't worry it's over with this woman.

465
00:28:28,560 --> 00:28:31,000
Speaker 1: And then he tells Elane that he really likes her

466
00:28:31,520 --> 00:28:34,800
Speaker 1: and they make plans to see each other again. But

467
00:28:35,000 --> 00:28:38,640
Speaker 1: Mrs Robinson does not like this, and she tells Ben

468
00:28:38,680 --> 00:28:42,479
Speaker 1: to never see Elaine again, or else she will tell

469
00:28:42,520 --> 00:28:48,400
Speaker 1: Elaine everything about her relationship with Ben. So Ben tells

470
00:28:48,440 --> 00:28:51,200
Speaker 1: Elane first so that it comes out of his mouth,

471
00:28:51,760 --> 00:28:56,520
Speaker 1: which upsets Elane and she screams at him to get

472
00:28:56,520 --> 00:29:01,600
Speaker 1: out no ship. One of the things that I find

473
00:29:01,720 --> 00:29:06,000
Speaker 1: just like absolutely mind boggling about this movie is that

474
00:29:06,040 --> 00:29:09,240
Speaker 1: you never get a scene. You never get a feel

475
00:29:09,280 --> 00:29:15,280
Speaker 1: for what Mrs Robinson and Elaine's relationship was like before

476
00:29:15,440 --> 00:29:19,920
Speaker 1: Ben comes into the picture, and you even more mind bogglingly,

477
00:29:20,520 --> 00:29:24,440
Speaker 1: don't get a good idea of what happens after instead

478
00:29:24,520 --> 00:29:28,200
Speaker 1: of getting any idea of like what which would even

479
00:29:28,280 --> 00:29:31,920
Speaker 1: if you're like in like sexist brain, like we need

480
00:29:31,920 --> 00:29:34,080
Speaker 1: to be focused on Ben at all times. That would

481
00:29:34,200 --> 00:29:38,440
Speaker 1: enrich his story to understand what's going on between the

482
00:29:38,480 --> 00:29:41,080
Speaker 1: two of them, even if you're obsessed with him, it

483
00:29:41,120 --> 00:29:44,920
Speaker 1: makes more sense to instead of having these long shots

484
00:29:44,920 --> 00:29:49,600
Speaker 1: of him leering from the bushes, I just yeah, yeah,

485
00:29:49,640 --> 00:29:52,080
Speaker 1: he literally just like inside of a plant to being

486
00:29:52,120 --> 00:29:54,880
Speaker 1: like what's going on over there? And it's like, God, God,

487
00:29:55,720 --> 00:30:03,240
Speaker 1: you boring criminal, you right, So he tells Elane the truth,

488
00:30:03,360 --> 00:30:06,760
Speaker 1: but again she is very upset and she's like get out.

489
00:30:06,800 --> 00:30:10,960
Speaker 1: And now he has lost both Mrs Robinson and Elaine.

490
00:30:11,880 --> 00:30:16,000
Speaker 1: And then Elaine goes back to college at Berkeley Slash.

491
00:30:16,200 --> 00:30:19,760
Speaker 1: Ben watches her leave because this is the point of

492
00:30:19,800 --> 00:30:25,280
Speaker 1: the story where he starts heavily stalking her. He drives

493
00:30:25,320 --> 00:30:29,480
Speaker 1: to Berkeley, he follows her around campus. He then moves

494
00:30:29,680 --> 00:30:32,800
Speaker 1: there so he can continue stalking her. He stalks her

495
00:30:32,840 --> 00:30:35,600
Speaker 1: all the way to the zoo, where Elaine meets up

496
00:30:35,640 --> 00:30:42,280
Speaker 1: with this guy Carl, who she's seeing boyfriend like. And

497
00:30:42,320 --> 00:30:47,640
Speaker 1: then Elaine comes over to Ben's place to confront him

498
00:30:47,720 --> 00:30:51,760
Speaker 1: about why he's there, and then she says, by the way,

499
00:30:52,280 --> 00:30:59,040
Speaker 1: my mom told me that you raped her, and he's like, no,

500
00:30:59,320 --> 00:31:03,040
Speaker 1: that's not what happened, and then they're kind of they're

501
00:31:03,120 --> 00:31:07,120
Speaker 1: arguing and things escalate and she screams, but then she

502
00:31:07,200 --> 00:31:10,280
Speaker 1: calms down and then she's like, I don't want you

503
00:31:10,360 --> 00:31:13,560
Speaker 1: to leave, and then she's also like I'm sorry I yelled,

504
00:31:13,680 --> 00:31:18,600
Speaker 1: and like don't be there. Yeah, I mean the implications

505
00:31:18,640 --> 00:31:21,640
Speaker 1: of around like false rape allegations that that you're just

506
00:31:21,680 --> 00:31:30,200
Speaker 1: like very troubling. We'll circle back that. So then Elaine

507
00:31:30,400 --> 00:31:32,960
Speaker 1: shows back up to Ben's place in the middle of

508
00:31:32,960 --> 00:31:37,000
Speaker 1: the night and she's like kiss me, and then he's like,

509
00:31:37,280 --> 00:31:41,720
Speaker 1: will you marry me parentheses tomorrow and she's like, I might,

510
00:31:42,200 --> 00:31:46,280
Speaker 1: but I'm confused. First of all, not not that she

511
00:31:46,320 --> 00:31:48,440
Speaker 1: should be breaking into his house, although at this point

512
00:31:48,440 --> 00:31:51,280
Speaker 1: you're like, I'm just completely lock Like at this point,

513
00:31:52,000 --> 00:31:54,960
Speaker 1: who knows what's going on? She you know, she's she's

514
00:31:55,160 --> 00:31:57,680
Speaker 1: in his room. He rolls out of bed looking like

515
00:31:57,880 --> 00:32:02,880
Speaker 1: his breath is foul. I felt that kiss in my mouth.

516
00:32:03,800 --> 00:32:06,640
Speaker 1: Uh yeah, You're just like it's three in the morning,

517
00:32:06,720 --> 00:32:10,000
Speaker 1: and this man's gonna taste like what yucky? Not good

518
00:32:10,600 --> 00:32:16,640
Speaker 1: is the answer? Not good? Whiskey and garbage bad. Yes,

519
00:32:17,160 --> 00:32:19,400
Speaker 1: he does drink a lot of bourbon throughout the movie.

520
00:32:20,560 --> 00:32:23,760
Speaker 1: So she's like, I mean it's a type of whiskey

521
00:32:24,080 --> 00:32:30,960
Speaker 1: and he so she's like, I might marry you, but

522
00:32:31,120 --> 00:32:35,000
Speaker 1: I'm confused, and he's like, don't be confused. We're getting married,

523
00:32:35,600 --> 00:32:40,320
Speaker 1: and then he continues to try to coerce her into

524
00:32:40,600 --> 00:32:45,959
Speaker 1: agreeing to marry him. But then Mr Robinson shows up

525
00:32:46,440 --> 00:32:49,520
Speaker 1: and he is furious and he tells Ben to stay

526
00:32:49,560 --> 00:32:52,560
Speaker 1: away from his family. And then Ben finds out that

527
00:32:52,920 --> 00:32:58,240
Speaker 1: Elaine left school to run off and marry Carl. So

528
00:32:58,360 --> 00:33:00,960
Speaker 1: then Ben goes on a wild good chase to find

529
00:33:01,040 --> 00:33:04,800
Speaker 1: her a k a. He continues to stock her up

530
00:33:04,840 --> 00:33:09,920
Speaker 1: the coast of California. He finds out the church that

531
00:33:10,040 --> 00:33:13,560
Speaker 1: they're getting married at, because she's getting married that day.

532
00:33:13,800 --> 00:33:18,120
Speaker 1: The timeline also of this movie is absurd. Hard to say. Oh,

533
00:33:18,240 --> 00:33:21,200
Speaker 1: we don't know they've only been on one date, for sure,

534
00:33:21,720 --> 00:33:23,560
Speaker 1: that's what we know. That's the other thing. I'm like,

535
00:33:23,640 --> 00:33:25,960
Speaker 1: how many dates have they been on? Because I think

536
00:33:26,000 --> 00:33:29,760
Speaker 1: it's no more than two. I couldn't. I couldn't tell

537
00:33:29,760 --> 00:33:32,680
Speaker 1: you what the second one was, unless her breaking into

538
00:33:32,760 --> 00:33:35,240
Speaker 1: his house or him stalking her at the zoo counts

539
00:33:35,280 --> 00:33:37,880
Speaker 1: as a second date. I just they go on the

540
00:33:37,960 --> 00:33:42,920
Speaker 1: first date to the like burlesque strip show type thing,

541
00:33:43,360 --> 00:33:45,600
Speaker 1: and then I think maybe he's just about to pick

542
00:33:45,640 --> 00:33:48,480
Speaker 1: her up for a second date. Yeah, Mrs Robinson gets

543
00:33:48,520 --> 00:33:50,360
Speaker 1: in the car before he can even go on the

544
00:33:50,440 --> 00:33:54,280
Speaker 1: second date. Oh my gosh. And then he also charges

545
00:33:54,320 --> 00:33:57,320
Speaker 1: into her room while she's not wearing clothes and she's like, stop,

546
00:33:57,400 --> 00:33:59,760
Speaker 1: I'm not dressed. And then he's like, I need to

547
00:33:59,800 --> 00:34:01,680
Speaker 1: tell you that I'm having sex with your mom. And

548
00:34:01,760 --> 00:34:05,440
Speaker 1: she's like but then she's like, oh no, you're like,

549
00:34:05,640 --> 00:34:13,399
Speaker 1: oh my goodness, goodness, Elane Oka lane. So he out

550
00:34:13,400 --> 00:34:18,719
Speaker 1: of here. Elane. Yes. So he's driving to the church,

551
00:34:18,880 --> 00:34:21,320
Speaker 1: but oh no, his car runs out of gas. So

552
00:34:21,440 --> 00:34:25,640
Speaker 1: he takes his like track and cross country skills and

553
00:34:25,960 --> 00:34:29,240
Speaker 1: runs the rest of the way. He burst into the church,

554
00:34:29,640 --> 00:34:34,520
Speaker 1: he disrupts the wedding, and he in a lane, run

555
00:34:34,640 --> 00:34:37,520
Speaker 1: out and then get on a bus and then they

556
00:34:37,600 --> 00:34:41,600
Speaker 1: sit together on the bus. Wait, was this a big mistake?

557
00:34:42,000 --> 00:34:44,600
Speaker 1: And then yeah, the expressions on their face are kind

558
00:34:44,600 --> 00:34:48,399
Speaker 1: of like, oh what now I mean? And then that's

559
00:34:48,440 --> 00:34:51,239
Speaker 1: the end of the movie. For for all this movie's fault,

560
00:34:52,200 --> 00:34:54,640
Speaker 1: that last shot is still kind of cool if you

561
00:34:55,440 --> 00:35:00,479
Speaker 1: forget everything else that happened, everything that happened before it true,

562
00:35:00,560 --> 00:35:02,799
Speaker 1: but it's a cool it's a cool shot. Anyways. Uh,

563
00:35:02,960 --> 00:35:04,640
Speaker 1: let's take a break, let's get out of here, and

564
00:35:04,680 --> 00:35:13,000
Speaker 1: then we'll be back. Let's do it and we're back

565
00:35:13,440 --> 00:35:15,400
Speaker 1: all right. Before we get into this movie, let's talk

566
00:35:15,400 --> 00:35:17,959
Speaker 1: a little bit about the production. Let's talk a little

567
00:35:17,960 --> 00:35:23,960
Speaker 1: bit about the context of this movie. So this is

568
00:35:24,280 --> 00:35:26,799
Speaker 1: I feel like we're we're kind of in a very

569
00:35:26,920 --> 00:35:30,000
Speaker 1: different way. But in terms of like the structure of

570
00:35:30,160 --> 00:35:32,000
Speaker 1: this we're in kind of we're in a bit of

571
00:35:32,040 --> 00:35:36,520
Speaker 1: a carey situation, I would say, because this is a

572
00:35:36,880 --> 00:35:43,640
Speaker 1: movie that was adapted from a white male author by

573
00:35:43,840 --> 00:35:46,840
Speaker 1: two other white guys and also a white guy director,

574
00:35:47,000 --> 00:35:51,080
Speaker 1: which is why perhaps the women are not are not

575
00:35:51,520 --> 00:35:55,000
Speaker 1: maybe making a lot of sense. No justice was done

576
00:35:55,800 --> 00:35:59,640
Speaker 1: for their characters, particularly with and like, I don't like

577
00:36:00,080 --> 00:36:03,239
Speaker 1: where Mrs Robinson's character goes, but she at least I

578
00:36:03,400 --> 00:36:07,040
Speaker 1: can sort of track where she's for like half of

579
00:36:07,080 --> 00:36:09,400
Speaker 1: the movie. Though for half of the movie, I understand

580
00:36:10,040 --> 00:36:12,520
Speaker 1: where her head is at. By the end, I'm just

581
00:36:12,680 --> 00:36:17,040
Speaker 1: like beats me. But anyways, Mike Nichols makes this movie

582
00:36:17,280 --> 00:36:23,279
Speaker 1: called Her Willingham and Buck Henry adapted. They have comedy backgrounds,

583
00:36:23,480 --> 00:36:26,360
Speaker 1: so we're the funniest names I've ever heard called or

584
00:36:26,440 --> 00:36:32,040
Speaker 1: Willingham and Buck Henry. Buck Henry is kind of an

585
00:36:32,680 --> 00:36:36,759
Speaker 1: icon in and also Mike Nichols and Buck Henry and

586
00:36:36,920 --> 00:36:39,880
Speaker 1: Dustin Hoffman are all Jewish men, and this was like

587
00:36:39,960 --> 00:36:43,600
Speaker 1: a time where Jewish comedians were along with like mel

588
00:36:43,680 --> 00:36:45,960
Speaker 1: Brooks who gets married to Anne Bancroft. It's all this,

589
00:36:46,160 --> 00:36:49,520
Speaker 1: this whole whatever thing. It's a big moment for Jewish comedy.

590
00:36:49,680 --> 00:36:54,400
Speaker 1: It's just not a big moment for writing women. But anyways,

591
00:36:54,440 --> 00:36:58,640
Speaker 1: I wanted to, you know, acknowledge that Dustin Hoffman and

592
00:36:59,239 --> 00:37:04,080
Speaker 1: fuck him. But he pointed out that he was surprised

593
00:37:04,120 --> 00:37:06,480
Speaker 1: that he was cast in the movie because he's Jewish,

594
00:37:06,960 --> 00:37:10,400
Speaker 1: and then he pointed out that the negative reviews of

595
00:37:10,480 --> 00:37:15,120
Speaker 1: this movie were often veiled and semitic. Yes, and like

596
00:37:15,239 --> 00:37:18,879
Speaker 1: commenting on the size of his nose and his kind

597
00:37:18,880 --> 00:37:23,960
Speaker 1: of like manner of speaking. So yeah, Worth acknowledging absolutely,

598
00:37:24,160 --> 00:37:26,880
Speaker 1: and also that like this is just kind of you know,

599
00:37:27,000 --> 00:37:32,560
Speaker 1: I don't know where she was, but Catherine Ross was like, yeah,

600
00:37:32,600 --> 00:37:34,840
Speaker 1: I don't think he's hot enough to be my boyfriend,

601
00:37:34,960 --> 00:37:38,080
Speaker 1: and you're like, okay, kind of iconic in a way.

602
00:37:38,360 --> 00:37:40,239
Speaker 1: She does say that she's like, I think this love

603
00:37:40,320 --> 00:37:44,000
Speaker 1: scene will be disgusting, but maybe she's just anticipating how

604
00:37:44,440 --> 00:37:49,200
Speaker 1: disgusting and creepy Dustin Hoffmann is in real life an individual. Yeah,

605
00:37:49,360 --> 00:37:52,480
Speaker 1: we don't know. Um So anyways, that's the background I

606
00:37:52,560 --> 00:37:56,960
Speaker 1: think what is more interesting to discuss is, and we've

607
00:37:56,960 --> 00:37:59,600
Speaker 1: sort of hinted at this already, the casting of Mrs

608
00:37:59,760 --> 00:38:04,680
Speaker 1: row Benson and Ben they are only six years apart

609
00:38:04,760 --> 00:38:08,640
Speaker 1: in age. There were a lot of actors who turned

610
00:38:08,719 --> 00:38:11,920
Speaker 1: down the role of Mrs Robinson and Elaine because of

611
00:38:12,080 --> 00:38:14,279
Speaker 1: kind of the nature of the story. This was like

612
00:38:14,560 --> 00:38:18,520
Speaker 1: considered to be a pretty risky material at the time,

613
00:38:19,840 --> 00:38:24,040
Speaker 1: Edgy and I guess whatever, just for acknowledgement, I guess

614
00:38:24,040 --> 00:38:26,680
Speaker 1: I don't really feel here nor there about it. But

615
00:38:26,840 --> 00:38:31,120
Speaker 1: like the concept of an older woman and a younger

616
00:38:31,200 --> 00:38:33,920
Speaker 1: man having a relationship in movies and having it be

617
00:38:34,040 --> 00:38:39,080
Speaker 1: explicitly sexual not really uh, something that was popularly discussed

618
00:38:39,360 --> 00:38:44,360
Speaker 1: and not a dynamic that was seen in movies very often.

619
00:38:44,840 --> 00:38:49,040
Speaker 1: Even today still you don't often see that absolutely And

620
00:38:49,120 --> 00:38:51,080
Speaker 1: it's like, I don't think that this movie is a

621
00:38:51,239 --> 00:38:53,600
Speaker 1: very good blueprint for it, but even like as a

622
00:38:54,000 --> 00:38:56,680
Speaker 1: topic of discussion was not one that was being had.

623
00:38:56,760 --> 00:39:00,080
Speaker 1: And there was also like generationally like this movie you

624
00:39:00,160 --> 00:39:02,759
Speaker 1: like toward colleges, and that's like part of how it

625
00:39:02,800 --> 00:39:07,760
Speaker 1: became really popular was they were specifically targeting young coming

626
00:39:07,800 --> 00:39:11,600
Speaker 1: of age boomers basically, and you know, this movie is

627
00:39:11,640 --> 00:39:14,280
Speaker 1: like coming out right around the time of the sexual Revolution,

628
00:39:14,440 --> 00:39:18,200
Speaker 1: is taking place in California, around the sexual Revolution. Setting

629
00:39:18,239 --> 00:39:20,960
Speaker 1: stuff in Berkeley is like very telling, and it's just

630
00:39:21,120 --> 00:39:24,960
Speaker 1: like a very interesting time to be said. And then

631
00:39:25,160 --> 00:39:27,080
Speaker 1: everyone said it was the greatest movie ever when it

632
00:39:27,160 --> 00:39:31,600
Speaker 1: came out, and then later even our our buddy Roger

633
00:39:31,680 --> 00:39:35,040
Speaker 1: Ebert reflected on the movie. I think it was like

634
00:39:35,120 --> 00:39:37,840
Speaker 1: twenty years later and in the eighties and was like,

635
00:39:38,040 --> 00:39:42,160
Speaker 1: you know what, maybe not my favorite after all. But

636
00:39:42,360 --> 00:39:43,839
Speaker 1: at the time it was supposed to be like, oh,

637
00:39:44,000 --> 00:39:47,520
Speaker 1: this is like the boomer movie, the peak of cinema.

638
00:39:47,880 --> 00:39:50,400
Speaker 1: It was the highest grossing movie of nineteen sixty seven,

639
00:39:51,000 --> 00:39:54,800
Speaker 1: with a hundred and four point nine million dollars worldwide

640
00:39:54,840 --> 00:39:58,520
Speaker 1: at the box office, which adjusted for inflation, and these

641
00:39:58,560 --> 00:40:03,960
Speaker 1: are numbers, um it grossed eight hundred and fifty seven

642
00:40:04,000 --> 00:40:09,800
Speaker 1: million dollars. Okay, joker joker money, let's joker money. Yikes, Sorry,

643
00:40:09,960 --> 00:40:12,680
Speaker 1: sorry for saying joker money. He's busy made more money

644
00:40:12,719 --> 00:40:16,840
Speaker 1: than I don't know, not number money, than millions, not

645
00:40:17,000 --> 00:40:20,000
Speaker 1: millions money, not millions money, kind of joker money, not

646
00:40:20,280 --> 00:40:25,520
Speaker 1: millions money, but unfair yardstick, because that's that's real. Comedy.

647
00:40:26,120 --> 00:40:31,720
Speaker 1: Um okay, jokey um so so okay, that's the history

648
00:40:31,960 --> 00:40:37,560
Speaker 1: of this film. Obviously very telling that the two main actors,

649
00:40:37,680 --> 00:40:41,319
Speaker 1: like the movie treats them as what would you guess,

650
00:40:41,360 --> 00:40:43,680
Speaker 1: like twenty years apart in age, when in reality they

651
00:40:43,719 --> 00:40:47,040
Speaker 1: were six years apart in age. The character Mrs Robinson says,

652
00:40:47,200 --> 00:40:50,080
Speaker 1: I'm twice your age, and we know that he is

653
00:40:50,480 --> 00:40:53,480
Speaker 1: twenty about to turn twenty one, so she's she's supposed

654
00:40:53,520 --> 00:40:57,319
Speaker 1: to be as a character in her early forties. But again,

655
00:40:57,440 --> 00:41:01,440
Speaker 1: Dustin Hoffman, the actor was almost there and and Bancraft

656
00:41:01,600 --> 00:41:05,080
Speaker 1: was thirty five at the time of shooting. So yeah,

657
00:41:05,320 --> 00:41:08,920
Speaker 1: not the age difference of the characters certainly doesn't happen,

658
00:41:09,080 --> 00:41:12,680
Speaker 1: you know, is given kind of u Ben Platt and

659
00:41:12,760 --> 00:41:15,399
Speaker 1: dear Evan Hanson vibes where you're like, no, you are

660
00:41:15,520 --> 00:41:19,960
Speaker 1: not twenty years old. Give it a rest, okay, dook,

661
00:41:20,320 --> 00:41:25,120
Speaker 1: let's talk about the movie. Yeah, so I will say

662
00:41:25,360 --> 00:41:28,399
Speaker 1: that again because I saw this for the first time

663
00:41:28,960 --> 00:41:36,000
Speaker 1: as someone I was around the age that Ben is

664
00:41:36,000 --> 00:41:38,600
Speaker 1: supposed to be when I saw this. This was in

665
00:41:38,880 --> 00:41:42,240
Speaker 1: like two thousand five or so when I watched this movie,

666
00:41:43,000 --> 00:41:47,399
Speaker 1: and I don't know if it's just that, uh, culturally,

667
00:41:47,800 --> 00:41:55,600
Speaker 1: I wasn't conditioned to notice very troubling coercive in stokersh behavior,

668
00:41:55,840 --> 00:41:57,480
Speaker 1: or if I had just forgotten about it. But I

669
00:41:57,640 --> 00:42:02,200
Speaker 1: did not remember how much coercion and stalking and just

670
00:42:02,520 --> 00:42:07,960
Speaker 1: general creepiness there is in this movie because it's nearly NonStop.

671
00:42:08,400 --> 00:42:10,239
Speaker 1: No one was talking about that in two thousand five.

672
00:42:10,400 --> 00:42:12,080
Speaker 1: And I also think that, like it was still, like,

673
00:42:12,960 --> 00:42:15,799
Speaker 1: you know, fifty plus years after this movie came out,

674
00:42:15,880 --> 00:42:20,280
Speaker 1: like that was still like considered not completely inappropriate behavior

675
00:42:20,400 --> 00:42:22,200
Speaker 1: by a lot of people. Right, this is how you

676
00:42:22,360 --> 00:42:26,480
Speaker 1: romance someone. You exact gaslight them. You don't take note

677
00:42:26,520 --> 00:42:30,640
Speaker 1: for an answer, You push, push, push, you stock stock stock.

678
00:42:30,800 --> 00:42:33,439
Speaker 1: I mean that still happens in movies from the last

679
00:42:33,480 --> 00:42:37,359
Speaker 1: ten years, Like you know, it's not two Kaul because

680
00:42:37,360 --> 00:42:40,440
Speaker 1: I definitely didn't clock this movie as anything but boring

681
00:42:41,560 --> 00:42:44,680
Speaker 1: when I first But I also feel like people still

682
00:42:44,760 --> 00:42:47,799
Speaker 1: when they talk about this movie are just like, Hey,

683
00:42:48,120 --> 00:42:51,360
Speaker 1: isn't it kind of wild that this movie is about

684
00:42:51,520 --> 00:42:53,880
Speaker 1: a younger man and an older woman And isn't that

685
00:42:53,960 --> 00:42:57,080
Speaker 1: kind of like a little weird but also hot? And

686
00:42:57,200 --> 00:42:59,719
Speaker 1: that's the conversation about this movie. I kind of wonder

687
00:43:00,080 --> 00:43:01,440
Speaker 1: when the last time they watched it is because I

688
00:43:01,440 --> 00:43:03,239
Speaker 1: feel like when you do watch it, it's kind of

689
00:43:03,320 --> 00:43:06,600
Speaker 1: like undeniable that a lot of it is like I

690
00:43:06,640 --> 00:43:08,600
Speaker 1: don't know, but yeah, the the takeaway from this, I

691
00:43:08,640 --> 00:43:10,840
Speaker 1: feel like it almost and this is like kind of

692
00:43:11,040 --> 00:43:14,320
Speaker 1: thankfully not a popular term anymore, but like the cougar

693
00:43:14,560 --> 00:43:18,919
Speaker 1: relationship like this was I feel like a real big

694
00:43:19,239 --> 00:43:24,280
Speaker 1: like whatever pop culture like milestone for that. So okay,

695
00:43:24,360 --> 00:43:26,680
Speaker 1: So just to start, like just to kind of track

696
00:43:26,800 --> 00:43:29,600
Speaker 1: their relationship, I kind of want to go chronologically because

697
00:43:30,600 --> 00:43:35,640
Speaker 1: going chronologically it's a disaster because from the beginning I

698
00:43:36,120 --> 00:43:39,000
Speaker 1: do as I do think that like I mean, Mrs

699
00:43:39,080 --> 00:43:44,400
Speaker 1: Robinson's unquestionably like manipulative and coercive with him, whereas she

700
00:43:44,680 --> 00:43:50,800
Speaker 1: like knows that he is, you know, inexperienced, seems to

701
00:43:50,880 --> 00:43:53,719
Speaker 1: sort of pick him out as like Okay, I want

702
00:43:53,760 --> 00:43:57,760
Speaker 1: to have sex with this young man. It's not illegal.

703
00:43:57,880 --> 00:44:00,440
Speaker 1: Like it's not even the age gap that the issue.

704
00:44:00,440 --> 00:44:04,880
Speaker 1: It's the power dynamics where and her approach she like

705
00:44:05,200 --> 00:44:07,600
Speaker 1: very again it's so she like calls out what's happening,

706
00:44:07,760 --> 00:44:11,560
Speaker 1: and she is like, that's not what's happening right right,

707
00:44:12,480 --> 00:44:17,160
Speaker 1: and then she literally traps him in her daughter's room,

708
00:44:17,239 --> 00:44:21,840
Speaker 1: which we're also like, okay, Freudian nightmare, Um truly traps

709
00:44:21,920 --> 00:44:25,160
Speaker 1: him in her daughter's room and like takes her clothes.

710
00:44:25,160 --> 00:44:28,719
Speaker 1: I mean, and even I mean not to have any

711
00:44:28,800 --> 00:44:31,520
Speaker 1: faith in the year nineteen seven. But if you reverse

712
00:44:31,600 --> 00:44:36,279
Speaker 1: those dynamics, I feel like it is clearly wrong even then.

713
00:44:36,840 --> 00:44:39,400
Speaker 1: But it's framed here as like kind of funny and

714
00:44:39,480 --> 00:44:41,520
Speaker 1: kind of hot, which is like we've talked about that.

715
00:44:42,160 --> 00:44:44,560
Speaker 1: I'm trying to remember what episode it was, but we're like,

716
00:44:45,520 --> 00:44:49,920
Speaker 1: and now we're getting media that like challenges that idea

717
00:44:50,200 --> 00:44:55,080
Speaker 1: that like, men cannot possibly be the victims of assault

718
00:44:56,000 --> 00:44:59,520
Speaker 1: from from any agenda, but particularly from women because of

719
00:44:59,600 --> 00:45:02,520
Speaker 1: how women are perceived as less powerful. And it doesn't

720
00:45:02,520 --> 00:45:05,400
Speaker 1: matter what the power dynamics are, a man can't be

721
00:45:05,520 --> 00:45:09,080
Speaker 1: assaulted because that would be emasculating and all that stuff.

722
00:45:09,200 --> 00:45:12,320
Speaker 1: It just feels like this movie, you know, it is

723
00:45:12,360 --> 00:45:16,640
Speaker 1: not inventing this concept, but certainly abiding by it. Yeah,

724
00:45:16,760 --> 00:45:20,399
Speaker 1: she is like again just pushing, pushing, pushing, won't take

725
00:45:20,480 --> 00:45:25,239
Speaker 1: no for an answer. He is very visibly uncomfortable, But

726
00:45:25,360 --> 00:45:28,640
Speaker 1: like you said, I think his discomfort is more framed

727
00:45:28,719 --> 00:45:31,920
Speaker 1: as like a well this isn't no means yes thing

728
00:45:32,600 --> 00:45:36,719
Speaker 1: that and like it's not so much like you're exploiting

729
00:45:36,800 --> 00:45:39,920
Speaker 1: your power over me to manipulate me. It's more like

730
00:45:40,560 --> 00:45:43,240
Speaker 1: I can't be doing this because you're a family friend

731
00:45:43,320 --> 00:45:47,160
Speaker 1: and what would my parents think? And that is like

732
00:45:47,600 --> 00:45:51,279
Speaker 1: more it seems where his discomfort is coming from. And

733
00:45:51,360 --> 00:45:54,840
Speaker 1: then a few scenes later he's like, well, your husband

734
00:45:54,880 --> 00:45:56,680
Speaker 1: told me I should go out there and fuck so

735
00:45:57,680 --> 00:46:01,480
Speaker 1: and you're available because you three yourself and me, Mrs Robinson,

736
00:46:01,640 --> 00:46:06,680
Speaker 1: so let's do this, which like, okay, I get that,

737
00:46:06,800 --> 00:46:09,640
Speaker 1: that's like supposed to be part of the like jokey

738
00:46:09,719 --> 00:46:14,239
Speaker 1: nous of the movie. Is like, oh, you know, because whatever, sure,

739
00:46:14,560 --> 00:46:16,720
Speaker 1: but yeah, like yeah, the the way that And again

740
00:46:16,760 --> 00:46:19,680
Speaker 1: it's like I get that it's been fifty years, but

741
00:46:20,239 --> 00:46:27,480
Speaker 1: it's been to and I still struggle with that scene there.

742
00:46:29,680 --> 00:46:32,840
Speaker 1: It's just like it is jarring to watch in a

743
00:46:33,320 --> 00:46:38,760
Speaker 1: modern context. And then what's what's interesting is like throughout

744
00:46:38,880 --> 00:46:43,960
Speaker 1: the movie, the power dynamics between them do shift pretty considerably,

745
00:46:44,480 --> 00:46:48,760
Speaker 1: but it doesn't start there. Definitely, like Mrs Robinson has

746
00:46:49,520 --> 00:46:52,120
Speaker 1: the power of experience over him. She has the power

747
00:46:52,280 --> 00:46:54,480
Speaker 1: of you know, she's a friend of the family and

748
00:46:54,560 --> 00:46:57,319
Speaker 1: he doesn't want to be impolite to her sort of thing,

749
00:46:57,440 --> 00:47:00,480
Speaker 1: like she does have the power during this first encounter,

750
00:47:00,640 --> 00:47:04,040
Speaker 1: and she abuses that power during their first encounter. But

751
00:47:04,160 --> 00:47:08,520
Speaker 1: then pretty quickly it's almost like implied that like once

752
00:47:08,640 --> 00:47:13,520
Speaker 1: he's having sex, the power dynamic totally shifts in some way.

753
00:47:13,640 --> 00:47:17,120
Speaker 1: It's not in every scene. It's complicated, and that scene

754
00:47:17,160 --> 00:47:20,000
Speaker 1: where they're you know, sharing and arguing with each other,

755
00:47:20,160 --> 00:47:22,920
Speaker 1: like that's where I feel like it is like genuinely

756
00:47:23,840 --> 00:47:26,640
Speaker 1: murky and kind of like more of an interesting dynamic

757
00:47:26,760 --> 00:47:31,320
Speaker 1: to explore. But like he just gets so so cocky

758
00:47:31,520 --> 00:47:35,320
Speaker 1: right away. Is like he's having sex. The coerciveness of

759
00:47:35,360 --> 00:47:38,000
Speaker 1: the first encounter like has no effect on him, and

760
00:47:38,239 --> 00:47:42,120
Speaker 1: he's just like immediately like I'm Mr Funck now blah

761
00:47:42,160 --> 00:47:46,520
Speaker 1: blah blah, like Mr fun it becomes and I'm just

762
00:47:46,640 --> 00:47:48,719
Speaker 1: having sex one time and then being like I'm never

763
00:47:48,800 --> 00:47:50,600
Speaker 1: going to get a job. You're like, what are you

764
00:47:51,239 --> 00:47:54,000
Speaker 1: talking about? I don't need to work. I'm Mr Fuck,

765
00:47:55,600 --> 00:47:58,480
Speaker 1: I'm Mr funk. I have a job. It's being Mr

766
00:47:58,560 --> 00:48:03,200
Speaker 1: fuck And you're just like this is whatever he's he's

767
00:48:03,400 --> 00:48:06,440
Speaker 1: he's going through something and he's a he's a disaster,

768
00:48:06,719 --> 00:48:09,759
Speaker 1: but the power dynamic does shift between them in a

769
00:48:09,840 --> 00:48:12,360
Speaker 1: way that it's like, I don't know, like truly some

770
00:48:12,520 --> 00:48:14,839
Speaker 1: moments in this movie, I was like, I know how

771
00:48:15,320 --> 00:48:19,239
Speaker 1: I am interpreting this, but I'm not sure how audiences

772
00:48:19,280 --> 00:48:22,800
Speaker 1: at the time we're like there were certain because I

773
00:48:22,920 --> 00:48:24,840
Speaker 1: felt like, maybe I'm giving the movie too much credit

774
00:48:24,880 --> 00:48:27,480
Speaker 1: that the movie does seem aware in some moments. I

775
00:48:27,600 --> 00:48:31,759
Speaker 1: thought maybe, but then countering with Mrs Robinson's behavior later,

776
00:48:31,960 --> 00:48:35,480
Speaker 1: maybe not that the movie does seem somewhat aware that

777
00:48:35,760 --> 00:48:42,839
Speaker 1: Mrs Robinson is ultimately more trapped than Ben is, where

778
00:48:42,840 --> 00:48:45,279
Speaker 1: it's like, even though she has the power at the

779
00:48:45,440 --> 00:48:49,160
Speaker 1: beginning of the relationship, unquestionably, as time goes on, you

780
00:48:49,640 --> 00:48:54,759
Speaker 1: sort of learn more about like her background. She was

781
00:48:55,120 --> 00:48:58,960
Speaker 1: essentially like culturally forced into a marriage she didn't want.

782
00:48:59,440 --> 00:49:03,520
Speaker 1: She was called truly forced out of her education, and

783
00:49:03,600 --> 00:49:06,760
Speaker 1: so she's already like four. I mean, she's a wealthy

784
00:49:07,200 --> 00:49:09,360
Speaker 1: white woman, and it seems like she came from privilege

785
00:49:09,400 --> 00:49:11,360
Speaker 1: if she was going to college in the sixties or

786
00:49:11,400 --> 00:49:16,320
Speaker 1: in the whatever fifties in the first place. But even

787
00:49:16,520 --> 00:49:22,200
Speaker 1: coming from considerable privilege, she's still very like trapped in

788
00:49:22,960 --> 00:49:27,120
Speaker 1: the American housewife experience, and it seems like there's very

789
00:49:27,239 --> 00:49:31,040
Speaker 1: little opportunity for her to get out of it, whereas

790
00:49:31,200 --> 00:49:35,960
Speaker 1: Ben will flop his way through life no problem, like

791
00:49:36,480 --> 00:49:38,880
Speaker 1: I have no doubt blopping his way around as Mr.

792
00:49:39,000 --> 00:49:41,600
Speaker 1: Fuck I yea, But Okay, So I totally agree with you,

793
00:49:41,680 --> 00:49:44,439
Speaker 1: and I think that that isn't a very that could

794
00:49:44,480 --> 00:49:48,919
Speaker 1: have been explored way more thoughtfully with her as someone

795
00:49:49,000 --> 00:49:53,800
Speaker 1: who is like trapped in this relationship, in this marriage

796
00:49:53,880 --> 00:49:58,160
Speaker 1: and is like looking for an out and maybe finds

797
00:49:58,200 --> 00:50:01,480
Speaker 1: one in this younger I that could be a very

798
00:50:01,960 --> 00:50:06,560
Speaker 1: interesting story and an interesting dynamic to explore. But the

799
00:50:06,719 --> 00:50:09,360
Speaker 1: movie frames her the way, because I want to examine

800
00:50:09,400 --> 00:50:13,440
Speaker 1: how the movie thinks of her and actually treats her

801
00:50:13,600 --> 00:50:16,560
Speaker 1: versus like how we want to talk about that too,

802
00:50:16,560 --> 00:50:19,320
Speaker 1: because sometimes I'm like, there's a part in the middle

803
00:50:19,360 --> 00:50:22,320
Speaker 1: where I was like, Okay, the movie understands that, like

804
00:50:22,800 --> 00:50:28,279
Speaker 1: she's not a good person, but you can see, but

805
00:50:28,320 --> 00:50:30,759
Speaker 1: then by the end, she's like a fucking cartoon villain

806
00:50:30,840 --> 00:50:34,240
Speaker 1: and so you're just like right right, So it first

807
00:50:34,400 --> 00:50:38,040
Speaker 1: it feels like, and maybe this is just my interpretation,

808
00:50:38,600 --> 00:50:41,399
Speaker 1: but when we first meet her, I think the movie

809
00:50:41,440 --> 00:50:43,600
Speaker 1: wants you to think that she's kind of this like

810
00:50:44,400 --> 00:50:50,000
Speaker 1: lonely desperate woman, and she's desperate because she's older and

811
00:50:50,160 --> 00:50:52,680
Speaker 1: her husband won't have sex with her, and that's why

812
00:50:52,760 --> 00:50:57,160
Speaker 1: she's an alcoholic. You're literally and bankropt, like what do

813
00:50:57,239 --> 00:50:59,759
Speaker 1: you what? And like and that we're supposed to like

814
00:51:00,680 --> 00:51:03,359
Speaker 1: not even empathize with her, but like sympathize with her.

815
00:51:03,480 --> 00:51:09,200
Speaker 1: We're like, oh, this poor pathetic right, even though she

816
00:51:09,480 --> 00:51:14,640
Speaker 1: is like actively manipulating and coercing, we're supposed to be like, oh, well,

817
00:51:14,680 --> 00:51:17,320
Speaker 1: that's just what pathetic people do, especially if you're like

818
00:51:17,960 --> 00:51:22,880
Speaker 1: an older woman. Um. Then when she finds out about

819
00:51:23,280 --> 00:51:28,759
Speaker 1: this blossoming relationship between Ben and her daughter, she pivots

820
00:51:28,920 --> 00:51:30,799
Speaker 1: and becomes well not even I don't know if it's

821
00:51:30,800 --> 00:51:34,080
Speaker 1: a pivot, but she basically just becomes this like jealous,

822
00:51:34,880 --> 00:51:39,719
Speaker 1: shrewd type and then gets like scarier and scarier, and

823
00:51:39,840 --> 00:51:42,080
Speaker 1: the movie wants you to be like and the movie

824
00:51:42,239 --> 00:51:44,239
Speaker 1: frames her that way because it's like, I feel like,

825
00:51:44,360 --> 00:51:47,000
Speaker 1: if you didn't stuff, like, you wouldn't put that scene

826
00:51:47,239 --> 00:51:50,799
Speaker 1: in Torrential Rain, if you didn't want her to come

827
00:51:50,840 --> 00:51:55,279
Speaker 1: off manic and like on the edge, like mascara dripping on,

828
00:51:55,560 --> 00:51:59,399
Speaker 1: like making her look like scary, I mean, and that's

829
00:51:59,560 --> 00:52:02,680
Speaker 1: I feel like that's like truly for her character, like

830
00:52:03,239 --> 00:52:08,040
Speaker 1: the shark jump moment that like could have And again

831
00:52:08,160 --> 00:52:10,640
Speaker 1: you're like, it's the sixties. There's no fucking chance this

832
00:52:10,719 --> 00:52:14,000
Speaker 1: would have happened. And there's this whole argument for it's

833
00:52:14,040 --> 00:52:16,400
Speaker 1: so like whatever. The late sixties has this reputation of

834
00:52:16,440 --> 00:52:18,800
Speaker 1: being a sexual revolution, but if you look into it,

835
00:52:18,920 --> 00:52:22,480
Speaker 1: it's a sexual revolution that generally benefited men, not to

836
00:52:22,560 --> 00:52:25,560
Speaker 1: say that women weren't having a good time, and we

837
00:52:25,680 --> 00:52:27,920
Speaker 1: love that for them, and they were like making huge

838
00:52:28,000 --> 00:52:30,000
Speaker 1: games that would lead to rev way and all this stuff,

839
00:52:30,280 --> 00:52:37,200
Speaker 1: but net benefit mostly men um which classic outcome. Anyways,

840
00:52:37,520 --> 00:52:41,360
Speaker 1: there's a point where I wanted to believe because it's I.

841
00:52:41,600 --> 00:52:43,560
Speaker 1: I also did not retain a lot of the specifics

842
00:52:43,600 --> 00:52:46,120
Speaker 1: of this movie. I remember like the main points. But

843
00:52:46,960 --> 00:52:51,480
Speaker 1: when she says like, don't date my daughter, you know,

844
00:52:52,200 --> 00:52:53,880
Speaker 1: because of the time it came out, it's like, oh,

845
00:52:54,040 --> 00:52:56,919
Speaker 1: I'm supposed to think that she's jealous of her own daughter,

846
00:52:57,280 --> 00:53:01,680
Speaker 1: when that same reaction would have laid way more realistically

847
00:53:01,760 --> 00:53:03,719
Speaker 1: for me if she was like, don't date my daughter

848
00:53:03,760 --> 00:53:08,160
Speaker 1: because you're fucking weird, Because you're like Cepo, right, and

849
00:53:08,280 --> 00:53:11,600
Speaker 1: then you could have the movie play out not exactly

850
00:53:11,680 --> 00:53:15,600
Speaker 1: the same way, but like kind of similarly with her

851
00:53:15,840 --> 00:53:18,640
Speaker 1: feeling that way of like stay a funk away from

852
00:53:18,680 --> 00:53:21,279
Speaker 1: my daughter, stayed the funk away from my family, You

853
00:53:21,360 --> 00:53:25,360
Speaker 1: are stalking my daughter, right, But instead the movie is like, no,

854
00:53:25,719 --> 00:53:28,960
Speaker 1: she's jealous, and she's jealous of her own daughter. And

855
00:53:29,120 --> 00:53:31,880
Speaker 1: sure she claims that she doesn't want Ben dating her

856
00:53:31,960 --> 00:53:34,440
Speaker 1: daughter because she thinks that he's not good enough for her,

857
00:53:34,560 --> 00:53:39,440
Speaker 1: but that's clearly not how she's characterized as as being.

858
00:53:39,800 --> 00:53:44,040
Speaker 1: She's like just this jealous woman who went from pathetic

859
00:53:44,120 --> 00:53:48,160
Speaker 1: to now she's scary and evil. It sucks. It's like

860
00:53:48,280 --> 00:53:52,240
Speaker 1: such lost potential in uh strong set up for a character,

861
00:53:52,360 --> 00:53:54,719
Speaker 1: Like there's so many issues you could have explored, but

862
00:53:54,960 --> 00:53:57,880
Speaker 1: it was like for you know, guys feeling around in

863
00:53:57,920 --> 00:54:01,839
Speaker 1: the dark for something they couldn't possibly understand, and then

864
00:54:02,080 --> 00:54:04,200
Speaker 1: it's really frustrating. And then the nail in the coffin

865
00:54:04,320 --> 00:54:08,000
Speaker 1: is when you find out that when Elaine goes to

866
00:54:08,239 --> 00:54:11,480
Speaker 1: Ben at the apartment that he's renting, because he's renting

867
00:54:11,480 --> 00:54:14,480
Speaker 1: that apartment so that he can more easily stalk Elaine

868
00:54:17,000 --> 00:54:20,400
Speaker 1: and she's like, by the way, my mom told me

869
00:54:20,600 --> 00:54:24,920
Speaker 1: that you raped her, and he sets the record straight because,

870
00:54:25,040 --> 00:54:28,200
Speaker 1: to be fair, that is not what happened. But then

871
00:54:28,239 --> 00:54:33,040
Speaker 1: you have this situation now where Mrs Robinson lied about

872
00:54:33,120 --> 00:54:39,360
Speaker 1: having been assaulted, which statistically rarely does not happen, happen

873
00:54:39,760 --> 00:54:44,520
Speaker 1: that often at all in real life, but because of

874
00:54:44,719 --> 00:54:49,080
Speaker 1: this culture we live in and this perception that oh,

875
00:54:49,200 --> 00:54:54,200
Speaker 1: when a woman or any survivor of rape or any

876
00:54:54,239 --> 00:54:57,640
Speaker 1: kind of sexual assault comes forward and and says that

877
00:54:57,800 --> 00:55:02,920
Speaker 1: this has happened, she's lying, and that's just popularly believed

878
00:55:03,040 --> 00:55:06,400
Speaker 1: to be true. So yeah, let's let's unpack that because

879
00:55:06,600 --> 00:55:09,440
Speaker 1: that I did not remember that at all either, and

880
00:55:09,560 --> 00:55:14,600
Speaker 1: it is barely called Like okay, So first of all,

881
00:55:14,920 --> 00:55:20,319
Speaker 1: the baseline is horrific because it's that she lies about assault, which,

882
00:55:20,360 --> 00:55:23,200
Speaker 1: as you said, and as there's been a bitillion studies

883
00:55:23,280 --> 00:55:26,759
Speaker 1: like that barely happens, and this is presenting it very

884
00:55:26,840 --> 00:55:30,360
Speaker 1: matter of factly as like, well, yeah, she's a liar,

885
00:55:30,480 --> 00:55:34,320
Speaker 1: and and in this case that is canonically true. So

886
00:55:34,600 --> 00:55:37,080
Speaker 1: that's like again, just like you're like, okay, this movie

887
00:55:38,080 --> 00:55:41,920
Speaker 1: has a very low opinion of Mrs Robinson, which is

888
00:55:41,960 --> 00:55:44,880
Speaker 1: wild because there are more like it was just driving

889
00:55:44,920 --> 00:55:47,360
Speaker 1: me up a wall, because it's like, there are moments

890
00:55:47,680 --> 00:55:50,760
Speaker 1: where it feels like you start with like you should

891
00:55:50,760 --> 00:55:53,000
Speaker 1: feel bad for this woman. Then there's a moment in

892
00:55:53,120 --> 00:55:56,000
Speaker 1: like the middle where it's like, oh, you could actually

893
00:55:56,440 --> 00:56:00,600
Speaker 1: empathize with this character, and then she turned while the evil.

894
00:56:01,239 --> 00:56:03,399
Speaker 1: It's impossible to track, and I feel like I get

895
00:56:03,440 --> 00:56:05,920
Speaker 1: so attached to those moments where you can really empathize

896
00:56:05,960 --> 00:56:07,920
Speaker 1: with her, and it makes the back half of the

897
00:56:07,960 --> 00:56:10,040
Speaker 1: movie just impossible. I mean, the whole movie is impossible.

898
00:56:10,080 --> 00:56:12,239
Speaker 1: For the back half of the movie in particular, they're

899
00:56:12,239 --> 00:56:16,200
Speaker 1: just like what is happening? Um? But on top of that, like,

900
00:56:16,719 --> 00:56:19,239
Speaker 1: so she tells her family, does she tell her her

901
00:56:19,320 --> 00:56:23,880
Speaker 1: husband that he also assaulted her, or because her husband

902
00:56:23,920 --> 00:56:26,280
Speaker 1: says that he's divorcing her. I'm like, is he divorcing

903
00:56:26,320 --> 00:56:28,080
Speaker 1: her because he thinks she was raped? Or was she

904
00:56:28,280 --> 00:56:31,520
Speaker 1: honest with him and lied to her daughter. I couldn't tell.

905
00:56:31,640 --> 00:56:34,520
Speaker 1: I don't think we know for sure, which is a

906
00:56:34,680 --> 00:56:36,800
Speaker 1: very weird thing to not tell. These things need to

907
00:56:36,840 --> 00:56:40,080
Speaker 1: be clear, Yeah, I feel like those conversations should have

908
00:56:40,160 --> 00:56:44,319
Speaker 1: happened on screen or something that like, yeah, we need

909
00:56:44,400 --> 00:56:47,880
Speaker 1: more clarity. There. We should see the Robinson's outside of

910
00:56:48,160 --> 00:56:51,000
Speaker 1: Ben at any time, and I don't think it takes

911
00:56:51,000 --> 00:56:54,360
Speaker 1: away from like and you're just walking around, Like I

912
00:56:54,360 --> 00:56:58,440
Speaker 1: don't need to watch Ben's stock someone for five minutes.

913
00:56:58,480 --> 00:57:01,440
Speaker 1: I can safely assume that's probably what he's doing. It's

914
00:57:01,440 --> 00:57:03,800
Speaker 1: all I've seen him do. And but yeah, it's like

915
00:57:03,840 --> 00:57:06,960
Speaker 1: I wasn't sure what she had told her husband, which

916
00:57:07,000 --> 00:57:09,640
Speaker 1: feels like really important information to not know. I don't

917
00:57:09,680 --> 00:57:14,000
Speaker 1: really see the like narrative upside of not knowing. And

918
00:57:14,080 --> 00:57:17,600
Speaker 1: then with I know, we haven't even finished the Mrs

919
00:57:17,680 --> 00:57:23,040
Speaker 1: Robinson conversation. But with Elaine it gets even more confusing

920
00:57:23,200 --> 00:57:28,960
Speaker 1: because she understandably like her mother told her I was

921
00:57:29,600 --> 00:57:34,760
Speaker 1: raped by Ben. Elaine has no reason to disbelieve, like

922
00:57:34,960 --> 00:57:37,600
Speaker 1: she has no reason to disbelieve her mother. So she

923
00:57:37,720 --> 00:57:40,520
Speaker 1: goes to see Ben very upset and confused. Also, I

924
00:57:40,520 --> 00:57:42,800
Speaker 1: don't know why she's going to see him, but she does. Well,

925
00:57:42,880 --> 00:57:45,720
Speaker 1: she goes to confront him, like why are you here?

926
00:57:46,080 --> 00:57:48,640
Speaker 1: Is it because I'm here? And then he's like yep,

927
00:57:49,520 --> 00:57:52,120
Speaker 1: He's like yeah, I love you. And then she's like, well,

928
00:57:52,520 --> 00:57:56,040
Speaker 1: you know, my mom told me that you assaulted her.

929
00:57:57,000 --> 00:58:01,320
Speaker 1: And then he doesn't even like offend himself, really, he

930
00:58:01,480 --> 00:58:04,520
Speaker 1: just she screams because she's I mean understood, she's fucking

931
00:58:04,640 --> 00:58:08,920
Speaker 1: confused and upset. And then the landlord shows up and

932
00:58:08,960 --> 00:58:12,560
Speaker 1: it's like, Ben, you have to leave, which like fair, yeah,

933
00:58:13,240 --> 00:58:15,360
Speaker 1: get he's he's like, something's not right about you, and

934
00:58:15,400 --> 00:58:18,120
Speaker 1: it's like, yeah, you're You're right the landlord. And I

935
00:58:18,240 --> 00:58:20,800
Speaker 1: can't believe I'm about to say this, but the landlord

936
00:58:21,280 --> 00:58:26,080
Speaker 1: is the hero of this movie. It's just that that's muddled.

937
00:58:26,520 --> 00:58:30,320
Speaker 1: It's it's that messy. But like so the landlord kicks about,

938
00:58:30,360 --> 00:58:33,640
Speaker 1: but like I really can't trace what's going through her head,

939
00:58:33,760 --> 00:58:37,920
Speaker 1: Like she sees him get kicked out, does perceive it

940
00:58:38,000 --> 00:58:40,760
Speaker 1: as like, oh, it's my fault. He's getting evicted because

941
00:58:40,840 --> 00:58:46,240
Speaker 1: I screamed because I fully believed two minutes ago that

942
00:58:46,440 --> 00:58:49,280
Speaker 1: he assaulted my mother. But then by the time the

943
00:58:49,360 --> 00:58:54,000
Speaker 1: door closes, she apologizes. And it's never explicitly stated that

944
00:58:54,160 --> 00:58:56,520
Speaker 1: she no longer believes her mom, but all of her

945
00:58:56,560 --> 00:58:59,800
Speaker 1: actions indicate that, for some reason, watching him get a

946
00:59:00,120 --> 00:59:04,320
Speaker 1: did made her no longer believe her mother's rape allegations.

947
00:59:04,600 --> 00:59:07,320
Speaker 1: I mean, he does kind of lay out the events

948
00:59:07,440 --> 00:59:10,680
Speaker 1: of what we saw happen on screen, which I guess

949
00:59:11,440 --> 00:59:13,320
Speaker 1: we are to believe that that is what happened. So

950
00:59:13,400 --> 00:59:17,200
Speaker 1: he's like, no, I she came on to me and

951
00:59:17,400 --> 00:59:21,880
Speaker 1: blah blah blah. But then yeah, Elaine just automatically believes

952
00:59:22,160 --> 00:59:26,040
Speaker 1: him and then feels bad that his landlord is yelling

953
00:59:26,080 --> 00:59:28,720
Speaker 1: at him. And then she's like, well, I guess we

954
00:59:28,800 --> 00:59:32,000
Speaker 1: can get married now, I'll consider it. And that's married.

955
00:59:32,560 --> 00:59:37,479
Speaker 1: It's like it's again, and this is like I don't

956
00:59:37,600 --> 00:59:40,800
Speaker 1: even like having to entertain this situation, but this is

957
00:59:40,880 --> 00:59:44,040
Speaker 1: a moment where like, if that is what the story

958
00:59:44,160 --> 00:59:46,880
Speaker 1: wants to happen, you have to know what her relationship

959
00:59:46,960 --> 00:59:50,000
Speaker 1: with her mom is like, like has her mom behaved

960
00:59:50,320 --> 00:59:54,040
Speaker 1: deceptively towards her before? Is there any reason that she

961
00:59:54,200 --> 00:59:59,960
Speaker 1: would be inclined to believe ben like a vague acquaintance

962
01:00:00,880 --> 01:00:04,080
Speaker 1: over her own mom? Right, does her mom have a

963
01:00:04,200 --> 01:00:10,280
Speaker 1: habit of lying and manipulating her? Does she know that

964
01:00:10,400 --> 01:00:12,520
Speaker 1: her mom is cheated on her dad in the past,

965
01:00:12,640 --> 01:00:16,240
Speaker 1: Like is there a certain either way you're The message

966
01:00:16,320 --> 01:00:19,720
Speaker 1: in nineteen sixty seven is like, don't believe women with

967
01:00:20,160 --> 01:00:24,320
Speaker 1: rape allegations, and and like that's just like a flop

968
01:00:24,400 --> 01:00:27,920
Speaker 1: from the start like it's a nonstarter, but you you're

969
01:00:27,960 --> 01:00:32,720
Speaker 1: given no information on like why her own daughter would

970
01:00:33,000 --> 01:00:35,960
Speaker 1: believe this, Like and I and I do think that

971
01:00:36,040 --> 01:00:38,840
Speaker 1: that like speaks to the I don't even know. It's

972
01:00:38,920 --> 01:00:41,600
Speaker 1: it's so confusing because whatever we weren't there. It's like

973
01:00:42,080 --> 01:00:44,880
Speaker 1: that could I guess I'll say it's like that could

974
01:00:44,960 --> 01:00:49,560
Speaker 1: speak to the cultural moment of like how prevalent believing

975
01:00:49,640 --> 01:00:53,120
Speaker 1: men over women was at that time. That's not hard

976
01:00:53,160 --> 01:00:56,720
Speaker 1: to believe. But even so, we're in fucking Berkeley, California

977
01:00:56,800 --> 01:00:59,880
Speaker 1: in nineteen sixty seven. She is a college student. You know,

978
01:01:00,080 --> 01:01:03,760
Speaker 1: it's like she's in the middle of second wave feminism,

979
01:01:04,040 --> 01:01:06,160
Speaker 1: and I'm supposed to believe that in the space of

980
01:01:06,200 --> 01:01:09,560
Speaker 1: a scene she believes some guy she barely knows over

981
01:01:09,680 --> 01:01:11,760
Speaker 1: her mom when she's like kind of in this like

982
01:01:12,040 --> 01:01:14,880
Speaker 1: hotbed of second wave feminism, Like, I just don't buy it.

983
01:01:15,040 --> 01:01:17,000
Speaker 1: I don't know some guy who she has been on

984
01:01:17,160 --> 01:01:21,640
Speaker 1: one point one dates with, Like that was bad and

985
01:01:22,120 --> 01:01:25,000
Speaker 1: most of it was her crying. It's just so I mean,

986
01:01:25,120 --> 01:01:27,440
Speaker 1: it's like the fact that rape allegations were brought into this,

987
01:01:27,720 --> 01:01:33,120
Speaker 1: it was just like so unnecessary truly complicates things. Immensely

988
01:01:33,920 --> 01:01:36,720
Speaker 1: makes Mrs Robinson even more of a villain than we

989
01:01:36,760 --> 01:01:39,720
Speaker 1: already were to believe she was, and then makes a

990
01:01:39,840 --> 01:01:44,520
Speaker 1: Lane just seem like a character without two brain cells

991
01:01:44,600 --> 01:01:49,160
Speaker 1: to rub together, like right, which I mean, let's take

992
01:01:49,160 --> 01:01:53,480
Speaker 1: a break and then come back and try to make

993
01:01:54,080 --> 01:02:04,640
Speaker 1: sense of this, and we're back one more thing about this,

994
01:02:04,800 --> 01:02:07,480
Speaker 1: because yeah, I mean, I hope we're not coming off

995
01:02:07,520 --> 01:02:10,560
Speaker 1: as like sounding like overly dismissive. It's just like it's

996
01:02:10,600 --> 01:02:12,520
Speaker 1: really hard to talk about this plot point because it's

997
01:02:12,560 --> 01:02:16,400
Speaker 1: like it's just so absurd in the way it's presented

998
01:02:16,440 --> 01:02:20,600
Speaker 1: that it's hard to take seriously. It's because the character's

999
01:02:20,680 --> 01:02:24,720
Speaker 1: behavior are just making no sense, and ultimately, I just

1000
01:02:24,840 --> 01:02:28,480
Speaker 1: I feel like my takeaway from that and the absurdity

1001
01:02:28,560 --> 01:02:30,920
Speaker 1: of how it's presented and the absurdity of how all

1002
01:02:30,960 --> 01:02:36,080
Speaker 1: the characters evolved react is it's almost presented like it's

1003
01:02:36,120 --> 01:02:40,040
Speaker 1: a throwaway thing, Like it's a throwaway plot point, which

1004
01:02:40,120 --> 01:02:43,760
Speaker 1: is something that for the most part, like I've no

1005
01:02:43,880 --> 01:02:47,520
Speaker 1: longer happens in media because rape is not a throwaway

1006
01:02:47,640 --> 01:02:49,640
Speaker 1: plat point. But we you know, this is the sixties

1007
01:02:49,720 --> 01:02:52,360
Speaker 1: and this is a time where you could show rape

1008
01:02:52,440 --> 01:02:54,760
Speaker 1: on screen and presented as romantic. This is a time

1009
01:02:54,840 --> 01:02:58,720
Speaker 1: that you know, culturally in the US marital rape was legal.

1010
01:02:58,960 --> 01:03:01,760
Speaker 1: Like there there's just there's a lot, there's a lot.

1011
01:03:02,320 --> 01:03:05,760
Speaker 1: But this movie is just like I think it's interesting

1012
01:03:05,800 --> 01:03:07,760
Speaker 1: for a movie that was presented as like cutting edge,

1013
01:03:07,800 --> 01:03:12,000
Speaker 1: progressive to introduce a plot point like this and unintroduced

1014
01:03:12,240 --> 01:03:17,960
Speaker 1: so abruptly, really speaks to like how how glad I am?

1015
01:03:18,200 --> 01:03:23,800
Speaker 1: I wasn't alive then I don't, right, because this moment

1016
01:03:23,960 --> 01:03:27,280
Speaker 1: in the movie is basically just presented as an obstacle

1017
01:03:27,440 --> 01:03:33,200
Speaker 1: to keep Ben and Elaine apart, because now Ben's desire

1018
01:03:33,480 --> 01:03:36,360
Speaker 1: is to be with Elaine, so now the movie has

1019
01:03:36,440 --> 01:03:39,800
Speaker 1: to present obstacles for them not to be able to

1020
01:03:40,000 --> 01:03:44,640
Speaker 1: be together. And one of these obstacles is this false

1021
01:03:45,160 --> 01:03:49,560
Speaker 1: allegation that I think we're meant to believe Mrs Robinson

1022
01:03:49,920 --> 01:03:55,040
Speaker 1: makes because she again is so jealous that he has

1023
01:03:55,200 --> 01:03:59,720
Speaker 1: chosen her daughter over her, that she's gonna do whatever

1024
01:03:59,840 --> 01:04:04,000
Speaker 1: it takes to keep them apart, because that's just how

1025
01:04:04,280 --> 01:04:07,720
Speaker 1: jealous and shrewdy she is. Like that's what we're supposed

1026
01:04:07,720 --> 01:04:11,480
Speaker 1: to believe, is an audience, Yeah, And I's like it's like, well,

1027
01:04:11,560 --> 01:04:14,200
Speaker 1: let me know if figure with this. It feels like

1028
01:04:14,240 --> 01:04:17,280
Speaker 1: a lot of the time like his stocking behavior is

1029
01:04:17,320 --> 01:04:20,320
Speaker 1: presented as like, well, they're forcing his hand. What is

1030
01:04:20,360 --> 01:04:23,960
Speaker 1: he supposed to do? They won't let him be with her,

1031
01:04:24,200 --> 01:04:26,920
Speaker 1: they won't let him see her, so he has to stalk.

1032
01:04:27,520 --> 01:04:29,400
Speaker 1: He has no Yeah, what choices he left with? And

1033
01:04:29,440 --> 01:04:31,640
Speaker 1: he's like, she doesn't want to be with you like

1034
01:04:31,760 --> 01:04:35,120
Speaker 1: she had, She's been in another relationship for months. It's

1035
01:04:35,120 --> 01:04:41,000
Speaker 1: implied like Carl of God, Ultimately, what happens to Carl,

1036
01:04:41,520 --> 01:04:43,880
Speaker 1: Probably he does a lot of damage on Wall Street

1037
01:04:44,120 --> 01:04:47,800
Speaker 1: is my guess. But Carl, I mean, you do feel

1038
01:04:47,880 --> 01:04:50,400
Speaker 1: for Car for a single for a single second, because

1039
01:04:50,400 --> 01:04:52,439
Speaker 1: he doesn't get whacked with a cross and he thinks

1040
01:04:52,480 --> 01:04:56,040
Speaker 1: he's at his wedding. Horrible day for horrible day for Car,

1041
01:04:56,880 --> 01:04:59,600
Speaker 1: just left at the altar, but kind of like assaulted

1042
01:04:59,680 --> 01:05:03,680
Speaker 1: by the altar. I haven't seen it before. Uh, just

1043
01:05:03,840 --> 01:05:09,360
Speaker 1: like the injury for Carl. But also he sucks. Yeah,

1044
01:05:09,360 --> 01:05:12,320
Speaker 1: I don't feel bad for Carl. Just Elaine needs to

1045
01:05:12,480 --> 01:05:18,000
Speaker 1: get out. Okay, So let's talk about Elanes choices, yes,

1046
01:05:18,240 --> 01:05:20,520
Speaker 1: and how they simply do not track at all. We've

1047
01:05:20,560 --> 01:05:24,200
Speaker 1: already touched on some of them. But she is written

1048
01:05:24,200 --> 01:05:29,200
Speaker 1: in such a way that she just makes whatever decision

1049
01:05:30,320 --> 01:05:34,520
Speaker 1: needs to be made so that Ben can get what

1050
01:05:34,720 --> 01:05:40,200
Speaker 1: he wants. No choices she makes. No her changing her

1051
01:05:40,240 --> 01:05:43,960
Speaker 1: mind about something is ever prompted by anything that makes sense,

1052
01:05:44,880 --> 01:05:50,640
Speaker 1: like after months of stalking her, which she calls out

1053
01:05:51,800 --> 01:05:53,880
Speaker 1: and it's like, why are you here? Is it because

1054
01:05:53,920 --> 01:05:57,200
Speaker 1: of me? And he admits to it, and then that

1055
01:05:57,600 --> 01:06:00,680
Speaker 1: is something that she's like, well, okay, it is not

1056
01:06:01,000 --> 01:06:04,480
Speaker 1: like now that I know you, you must be in

1057
01:06:04,560 --> 01:06:06,160
Speaker 1: love with me. If you're if you went through all

1058
01:06:06,200 --> 01:06:09,040
Speaker 1: the lengths to come here and stalk me, like, that

1059
01:06:09,320 --> 01:06:12,120
Speaker 1: must mean you really like me and and and that's

1060
01:06:12,160 --> 01:06:14,600
Speaker 1: cool and I like that and and so now I'm

1061
01:06:14,640 --> 01:06:18,800
Speaker 1: going to consider marrying you. And then when they go

1062
01:06:19,080 --> 01:06:23,320
Speaker 1: from like being on bad terms to her coming around

1063
01:06:23,560 --> 01:06:28,640
Speaker 1: for again reasons that make no sense, he starts coercing

1064
01:06:28,720 --> 01:06:32,520
Speaker 1: her into marriage and he's like, let's go get our

1065
01:06:32,560 --> 01:06:34,760
Speaker 1: blood test, let's do this tomorrow. But but like what

1066
01:06:35,080 --> 01:06:37,840
Speaker 1: you've been on one date and to the point where

1067
01:06:38,000 --> 01:06:40,640
Speaker 1: it but at this point it's interest because it's like

1068
01:06:40,920 --> 01:06:44,680
Speaker 1: originally again it is very like the classic I'm going

1069
01:06:44,720 --> 01:06:47,160
Speaker 1: to wear her down thing, because at first it seems

1070
01:06:47,160 --> 01:06:49,439
Speaker 1: like she explicitly does not want to be stalked. She's

1071
01:06:49,520 --> 01:06:51,600
Speaker 1: very upset about it. She believes that he has assaulted

1072
01:06:51,680 --> 01:06:54,680
Speaker 1: her mother, Like yeah, he's the last person she wants around.

1073
01:06:54,920 --> 01:06:58,360
Speaker 1: But then because she believes him over her mom for

1074
01:06:58,880 --> 01:07:02,360
Speaker 1: reasons we don't understand, and reasons that are not we're

1075
01:07:02,400 --> 01:07:04,520
Speaker 1: not meant to understand. It's supposed to be like implicit

1076
01:07:04,600 --> 01:07:07,720
Speaker 1: for some reason, because oh well, Ben's a lead character

1077
01:07:08,080 --> 01:07:10,240
Speaker 1: and Mrs Robinson is a woman of her forties, so

1078
01:07:10,320 --> 01:07:12,920
Speaker 1: she's evil, like that's why. But by the end of

1079
01:07:13,000 --> 01:07:15,880
Speaker 1: the Stocking behavior, the behavior hasn't changed. She just likes

1080
01:07:15,960 --> 01:07:18,160
Speaker 1: it now and it's like funny to her now and

1081
01:07:18,280 --> 01:07:20,360
Speaker 1: she's like, oh I could I could marry someone else

1082
01:07:20,400 --> 01:07:22,360
Speaker 1: blah blah blah. And but it's weird because it's like

1083
01:07:22,400 --> 01:07:24,400
Speaker 1: she still seems annoyed with him, but it's like, but

1084
01:07:24,520 --> 01:07:28,920
Speaker 1: now it's like it's flirty stock You're like she jokes

1085
01:07:28,960 --> 01:07:32,240
Speaker 1: about it, she says, so he's like following her around

1086
01:07:32,320 --> 01:07:35,440
Speaker 1: everywhere she's going on campus, saying marry me, marry me,

1087
01:07:35,520 --> 01:07:38,640
Speaker 1: marry me. It's like the part of the arrest of development,

1088
01:07:38,760 --> 01:07:43,400
Speaker 1: marry me, Like can you just like can you, Like, literally,

1089
01:07:43,960 --> 01:07:45,760
Speaker 1: I feel like I sound like such a boomer. We'rene

1090
01:07:45,840 --> 01:07:50,200
Speaker 1: but I'm like, get a josh, like, what are you doing? So,

1091
01:07:50,440 --> 01:07:53,920
Speaker 1: oh my god. He's trying to coerce her into agreeing

1092
01:07:54,000 --> 01:07:57,400
Speaker 1: to marry him tomorrow. And it's not just like can

1093
01:07:57,440 --> 01:07:59,600
Speaker 1: we get married some days, He's like, let's do this tomorrow.

1094
01:08:00,000 --> 01:08:02,280
Speaker 1: And then she says, as a kind of a joke,

1095
01:08:02,920 --> 01:08:05,040
Speaker 1: why don't you drag me off if you want to

1096
01:08:05,120 --> 01:08:08,720
Speaker 1: marry me so bad? And he says maybe I will.

1097
01:08:09,040 --> 01:08:13,800
Speaker 1: Like now they're joking about right there, he's been stalking her,

1098
01:08:13,840 --> 01:08:20,320
Speaker 1: and and then she's like, well, okay, I might marry you,

1099
01:08:20,600 --> 01:08:22,840
Speaker 1: but I have to talk to Carl first, because I

1100
01:08:23,040 --> 01:08:26,960
Speaker 1: also told him that I might marry him. So this

1101
01:08:27,200 --> 01:08:30,600
Speaker 1: is just a female character written by men who has

1102
01:08:30,640 --> 01:08:33,879
Speaker 1: written in such a way that she will just agree

1103
01:08:34,040 --> 01:08:38,840
Speaker 1: to marry any guy that enters her life. So I

1104
01:08:38,960 --> 01:08:42,160
Speaker 1: have questions about that again, and I think that I'm

1105
01:08:43,120 --> 01:08:46,840
Speaker 1: I mean, okay, that's oversimplification. But again I was going

1106
01:08:46,920 --> 01:08:49,600
Speaker 1: into like Jamie Headcannon world of like what if a

1107
01:08:49,680 --> 01:08:52,040
Speaker 1: woman had been involved in a second of the writing process,

1108
01:08:52,080 --> 01:08:55,920
Speaker 1: and and what what what mysteries could have been unlocked?

1109
01:08:56,760 --> 01:09:03,000
Speaker 1: I am curious how aware the movie is. I mean,

1110
01:09:03,120 --> 01:09:07,160
Speaker 1: I'm I'm gonna operate from a baseline of note based

1111
01:09:07,240 --> 01:09:09,680
Speaker 1: on this entire discussion. But I do think it is

1112
01:09:10,080 --> 01:09:15,160
Speaker 1: interesting and kind of telling that it doesn't appear that

1113
01:09:15,360 --> 01:09:20,599
Speaker 1: anyone in the movie recognizes that the daughter is making

1114
01:09:21,360 --> 01:09:25,400
Speaker 1: her fate is similar to her mom's to the point where, like,

1115
01:09:25,680 --> 01:09:28,240
Speaker 1: I mean, she's not she's she's not forced out of

1116
01:09:28,280 --> 01:09:31,519
Speaker 1: her education because she's gregnant. She almost opts out of

1117
01:09:31,560 --> 01:09:34,519
Speaker 1: her education to get married, which was a very real

1118
01:09:34,640 --> 01:09:36,760
Speaker 1: pressure then. And I also feel like you do get

1119
01:09:37,640 --> 01:09:40,840
Speaker 1: a little bit of class commentary. Point of university is

1120
01:09:40,880 --> 01:09:43,920
Speaker 1: to find a suitable husband. Rose already has that, and

1121
01:09:44,000 --> 01:09:47,280
Speaker 1: that was fifty years five years before this, And but like,

1122
01:09:47,680 --> 01:09:49,559
Speaker 1: and I do think that there is, like, whether it's

1123
01:09:49,560 --> 01:09:53,360
Speaker 1: like superintended or not, some class commentary there of like,

1124
01:09:53,560 --> 01:09:55,720
Speaker 1: you know, rich women only go to college so that

1125
01:09:55,800 --> 01:09:57,719
Speaker 1: they can find a suit, you know, they can marry

1126
01:09:57,760 --> 01:09:59,640
Speaker 1: a rich man. There is a level. And I think

1127
01:09:59,680 --> 01:10:03,120
Speaker 1: that that's why the parents are so invested in, Like

1128
01:10:03,280 --> 01:10:06,479
Speaker 1: it seems creepy because it is, but like the parents

1129
01:10:06,520 --> 01:10:09,519
Speaker 1: are very invested in these two rich kids marrying each

1130
01:10:09,520 --> 01:10:12,760
Speaker 1: other to like maintain class and like that's a very

1131
01:10:12,800 --> 01:10:15,960
Speaker 1: real thing. This movie might be sort of aware of that.

1132
01:10:17,000 --> 01:10:19,840
Speaker 1: But I just wondered because it's like, it does seem

1133
01:10:19,920 --> 01:10:23,240
Speaker 1: like Elaine is like her fate will be similar to

1134
01:10:23,479 --> 01:10:27,400
Speaker 1: Mrs Robinson's, Like, and I do think the movie acknowledges that,

1135
01:10:27,600 --> 01:10:32,240
Speaker 1: especially based on how very at the very end, yeah, exactly,

1136
01:10:32,320 --> 01:10:36,240
Speaker 1: where like after that initial excitement wears off where they're like,

1137
01:10:36,400 --> 01:10:38,200
Speaker 1: t he I just ran away from a wedding and

1138
01:10:38,280 --> 01:10:40,040
Speaker 1: we got on a bus and she's like, wait a second,

1139
01:10:40,320 --> 01:10:44,960
Speaker 1: who are you there? Their faces drop and yeah, I

1140
01:10:45,040 --> 01:10:49,040
Speaker 1: think they're both realizing like this horrible mistake that they've made.

1141
01:10:49,320 --> 01:10:53,479
Speaker 1: And I would hope especially Elaine is like, what did

1142
01:10:53,560 --> 01:10:56,360
Speaker 1: I do? It was not a mistake for her to

1143
01:10:56,479 --> 01:10:59,120
Speaker 1: run away from her wedding with Carl, because also she

1144
01:10:59,320 --> 01:11:02,880
Speaker 1: definitely should have done that anyway. But I just hope

1145
01:11:02,920 --> 01:11:05,799
Speaker 1: she's like, can you drop you off at Berkeley? Please?

1146
01:11:06,000 --> 01:11:10,080
Speaker 1: I have to finish my bachelor's degree right what a

1147
01:11:10,120 --> 01:11:14,040
Speaker 1: wild weekend? Um, please bring me back to school. Um. Yeah,

1148
01:11:14,080 --> 01:11:16,559
Speaker 1: Because it's like I do I totally agree. Where it's

1149
01:11:16,600 --> 01:11:19,360
Speaker 1: like it's one of the most famous parts of this

1150
01:11:19,479 --> 01:11:23,680
Speaker 1: movie is that they clearly realized that they've made a

1151
01:11:23,800 --> 01:11:27,599
Speaker 1: mistake at the end, But I guess I'm more questioning

1152
01:11:27,680 --> 01:11:31,080
Speaker 1: the specific of like does she realize it is similar

1153
01:11:31,120 --> 01:11:34,600
Speaker 1: to what happened to her mother specifically, I'm here, you

1154
01:11:34,680 --> 01:11:39,280
Speaker 1: know that one interaction, the one interaction you see these

1155
01:11:39,320 --> 01:11:45,240
Speaker 1: two women have is Mrs Robinson yelling like she's fucking Jaffar.

1156
01:11:45,840 --> 01:11:50,960
Speaker 1: Like she's like, it's too late, like you know, oh yeah,

1157
01:11:51,080 --> 01:11:57,880
Speaker 1: like Ursula, name any sissy renaissance villain. The sun has set,

1158
01:11:58,080 --> 01:12:02,320
Speaker 1: and she's like reas into a big gass octopus, like

1159
01:12:03,000 --> 01:12:06,000
Speaker 1: it's very villainous. It's too late, it's not a loving

1160
01:12:06,479 --> 01:12:09,600
Speaker 1: it's too late. And then Elaine says not for me,

1161
01:12:10,120 --> 01:12:15,320
Speaker 1: and I'm like, but your but you're you're tacitly agreeing

1162
01:12:15,400 --> 01:12:18,160
Speaker 1: to marry the biggest loser you've ever met, which is

1163
01:12:18,240 --> 01:12:21,639
Speaker 1: what Mrs Robinson had to do. But she but I mean,

1164
01:12:21,880 --> 01:12:24,519
Speaker 1: she had fewer choices than Elane, and it's like, a Lane,

1165
01:12:24,600 --> 01:12:28,679
Speaker 1: what are you doing? Like Mrs Robinson. It's heavily implied

1166
01:12:28,800 --> 01:12:31,960
Speaker 1: in the scene that I think she's presented most empathetically

1167
01:12:32,560 --> 01:12:37,280
Speaker 1: and has the most self awareness around women's issues for

1168
01:12:37,400 --> 01:12:43,000
Speaker 1: her generation. Was like she got pregnant, and the options

1169
01:12:43,000 --> 01:12:46,639
Speaker 1: are sorry, what word did you say? She was heavy

1170
01:12:46,720 --> 01:12:50,240
Speaker 1: with greg? Thank you? She got she got grant it

1171
01:12:50,280 --> 01:12:53,479
Speaker 1: in the car, so she gets gregnit in the car.

1172
01:12:54,120 --> 01:13:00,320
Speaker 1: And her options societally are Mary big greg or you know,

1173
01:13:00,479 --> 01:13:05,040
Speaker 1: live in shame, and like, there are very few options

1174
01:13:05,040 --> 01:13:07,879
Speaker 1: available to her that she can't have an abortion, certainly

1175
01:13:07,960 --> 01:13:11,600
Speaker 1: at that time, she can't not legally, not legally, and

1176
01:13:11,880 --> 01:13:15,320
Speaker 1: and even if she were able to access abortion as

1177
01:13:15,400 --> 01:13:17,840
Speaker 1: a fairly privileged woman there, you know, you would carry

1178
01:13:17,880 --> 01:13:20,920
Speaker 1: that stigma throughout your life. And like, I do feel

1179
01:13:20,920 --> 01:13:25,800
Speaker 1: like the movie presents how she was given no choice

1180
01:13:25,840 --> 01:13:29,960
Speaker 1: and kind of like pushed into this loveless marriage, which

1181
01:13:30,040 --> 01:13:32,560
Speaker 1: does make you more empathetic for like, she wants to

1182
01:13:32,760 --> 01:13:36,960
Speaker 1: feel seen and validated physically because she and her husband

1183
01:13:37,000 --> 01:13:40,120
Speaker 1: are not a good sexual match, but she's stuck with him,

1184
01:13:40,240 --> 01:13:44,240
Speaker 1: and like, that is a really interesting story to present,

1185
01:13:44,439 --> 01:13:47,160
Speaker 1: and like a really interesting generational conflict to present. But

1186
01:13:47,280 --> 01:13:50,880
Speaker 1: then it just totally dropped, Like I just drop That

1187
01:13:51,000 --> 01:13:53,679
Speaker 1: scene is so interesting to me because it completely drops

1188
01:13:53,800 --> 01:13:55,719
Speaker 1: to the point where I don't even know why they bothered,

1189
01:13:56,200 --> 01:13:59,599
Speaker 1: you know, like and then and then it's it's as

1190
01:13:59,640 --> 01:14:02,599
Speaker 1: if the movie says, well, yeah, of course this wasn't

1191
01:14:02,640 --> 01:14:07,880
Speaker 1: going to be sustainable. And when a more age appropriate

1192
01:14:08,000 --> 01:14:12,280
Speaker 1: woman comes along in a lane, well obviously that's going

1193
01:14:12,360 --> 01:14:14,720
Speaker 1: to be a better match. But because we barely see

1194
01:14:14,800 --> 01:14:18,559
Speaker 1: Ben and Eline interact, we don't know why they're into

1195
01:14:18,640 --> 01:14:22,360
Speaker 1: each other. Most of their interactions are wholly negative, right,

1196
01:14:22,680 --> 01:14:24,680
Speaker 1: and like what do they have in come? There's that

1197
01:14:24,760 --> 01:14:27,639
Speaker 1: scene where there's like a car full of loud people

1198
01:14:27,760 --> 01:14:29,760
Speaker 1: next to them and they're like shut up, and then

1199
01:14:29,840 --> 01:14:31,479
Speaker 1: so they like I kind of thought that was like

1200
01:14:31,600 --> 01:14:33,840
Speaker 1: funny that they did that, but that I was also like,

1201
01:14:35,120 --> 01:14:37,680
Speaker 1: just like I guess then like Ben puts the convertible

1202
01:14:37,760 --> 01:14:43,599
Speaker 1: top on his car, it's the sound of silence, Caitlins.

1203
01:14:44,240 --> 01:14:48,400
Speaker 1: But rather than us hearing the conversation between Ben and

1204
01:14:48,479 --> 01:14:51,120
Speaker 1: Elane then and give the audience a chance to be

1205
01:14:51,720 --> 01:14:54,280
Speaker 1: informed about, you know, what they might have in common

1206
01:14:54,400 --> 01:14:56,920
Speaker 1: or what why they're into each other, we don't hear

1207
01:14:56,960 --> 01:14:59,439
Speaker 1: their dialogue and we just continue to hear the loud

1208
01:14:59,640 --> 01:15:02,120
Speaker 1: teena angers in the car next to them, and it's

1209
01:15:02,160 --> 01:15:06,960
Speaker 1: like it's because and also like it's I'm not even

1210
01:15:07,400 --> 01:15:11,200
Speaker 1: you know whatever. We're not asking that these women be perfect, no,

1211
01:15:11,520 --> 01:15:14,439
Speaker 1: absolutely not, and it's not even you know, it's by

1212
01:15:14,520 --> 01:15:17,800
Speaker 1: no means off the table to have a child make

1213
01:15:17,840 --> 01:15:20,920
Speaker 1: the same mistake that their parents made and not realize

1214
01:15:21,000 --> 01:15:25,000
Speaker 1: that's something that happens pretty frequently. It is like a

1215
01:15:25,240 --> 01:15:28,360
Speaker 1: topic that's worth exploring. But it just like seems like

1216
01:15:28,400 --> 01:15:32,080
Speaker 1: the movie like it doesn't even really register that that's

1217
01:15:32,120 --> 01:15:34,760
Speaker 1: what they know, that Elaine is making a mistake and

1218
01:15:34,880 --> 01:15:37,160
Speaker 1: that being with Ben is a mistake, and that Ben

1219
01:15:37,439 --> 01:15:41,400
Speaker 1: is my interpretation of Ben's behaviors. He basically asks her

1220
01:15:41,680 --> 01:15:44,519
Speaker 1: like he does get like forced into taking her on

1221
01:15:44,600 --> 01:15:46,599
Speaker 1: a date, but then I feel like he keeps pushing

1222
01:15:46,640 --> 01:15:50,720
Speaker 1: it almost as revenge against Mrs Robinson more than out

1223
01:15:50,760 --> 01:15:55,680
Speaker 1: of a genuine love for Elaine, which you would think

1224
01:15:55,760 --> 01:15:59,479
Speaker 1: would outrage Mrs Robinson on the basis of her daughter's

1225
01:15:59,520 --> 01:16:02,360
Speaker 1: life is going be fucked up. But no, it's out

1226
01:16:02,400 --> 01:16:07,320
Speaker 1: of you know, strikeful revenge, you know, over for what

1227
01:16:08,000 --> 01:16:12,280
Speaker 1: for Mr? Fuck From I don't think so. Yeah, the

1228
01:16:12,479 --> 01:16:18,479
Speaker 1: satire is present, but it's not clear enough, And it

1229
01:16:18,520 --> 01:16:21,560
Speaker 1: would be more clear if we got more interaction or

1230
01:16:21,760 --> 01:16:26,280
Speaker 1: really any interactions between Elaine and her mother right in,

1231
01:16:26,439 --> 01:16:29,920
Speaker 1: like some kind of awareness around like the amount of

1232
01:16:30,040 --> 01:16:31,920
Speaker 1: stuff that could have been cleared up in the space

1233
01:16:32,000 --> 01:16:34,920
Speaker 1: of a few scenes with them will never know because

1234
01:16:34,920 --> 01:16:37,400
Speaker 1: it's like it is, right. It would be interesting to

1235
01:16:37,960 --> 01:16:43,760
Speaker 1: see this movie from Elaine's perspective because it's really hard

1236
01:16:43,840 --> 01:16:46,160
Speaker 1: to connect the dots. Here's a joke that I've been

1237
01:16:46,200 --> 01:16:49,200
Speaker 1: trying to figure out how to wedge into the story

1238
01:16:49,400 --> 01:16:53,160
Speaker 1: that isn't going to land. But don't be so sure.

1239
01:16:54,720 --> 01:16:59,360
Speaker 1: What if that's what Swiss Family Robinson is about. We

1240
01:16:59,479 --> 01:17:05,519
Speaker 1: get the perspective, and I don't know what that is.

1241
01:17:05,680 --> 01:17:10,320
Speaker 1: Thought's just fairly know what it is. Either it's it

1242
01:17:10,479 --> 01:17:13,360
Speaker 1: was a show maybe, or maybe it was a movie.

1243
01:17:13,479 --> 01:17:15,920
Speaker 1: I don't know. It was some media. I was thinking

1244
01:17:15,960 --> 01:17:21,479
Speaker 1: of Little Debbie Swiss rolls Swiss Robinson. I want to

1245
01:17:21,560 --> 01:17:26,280
Speaker 1: say it was a show in some decade about this

1246
01:17:26,439 --> 01:17:30,479
Speaker 1: family who like Swiss. I think they got shipwrecked. I

1247
01:17:30,520 --> 01:17:32,960
Speaker 1: want to say they were probably Swiss, but I don't remember.

1248
01:17:33,439 --> 01:17:35,760
Speaker 1: They got shipwrecked on an island and then they like

1249
01:17:36,040 --> 01:17:40,520
Speaker 1: built this whole like jungle gym and like out of treehouses.

1250
01:17:40,560 --> 01:17:44,800
Speaker 1: It's just like a treehouse situation. I might not be

1251
01:17:44,960 --> 01:17:47,920
Speaker 1: remembering this correctly. Let me just do a quick google.

1252
01:17:48,760 --> 01:17:51,559
Speaker 1: What you're saying kind of reminds me of something different.

1253
01:17:51,640 --> 01:17:56,200
Speaker 1: But the box Car Children remember them? Yeah, yeah, sure.

1254
01:17:56,680 --> 01:18:02,160
Speaker 1: Swiss family Robinson is in nineteen sixty film okay about

1255
01:18:03,520 --> 01:18:06,200
Speaker 1: oh yeah. When their ship gets damaged on route to

1256
01:18:07,000 --> 01:18:11,080
Speaker 1: New Guinea, they take refuge on a deserted island, and

1257
01:18:11,120 --> 01:18:13,960
Speaker 1: the Robinson's lived to learn in the wild, and they

1258
01:18:14,040 --> 01:18:17,920
Speaker 1: have various adventures and build an impressive house in a tree. Okay,

1259
01:18:18,000 --> 01:18:21,360
Speaker 1: that sounds kind of fun. However, while island life is

1260
01:18:21,680 --> 01:18:25,560
Speaker 1: full excitement, the question of whether to return to civilization

1261
01:18:25,800 --> 01:18:33,240
Speaker 1: looms interesting. Okay, let's that. Did you ever read Box

1262
01:18:33,320 --> 01:18:37,160
Speaker 1: Car Children? Um, I don't know that I ever did.

1263
01:18:37,240 --> 01:18:39,240
Speaker 1: I feel like those books were on my shelf as

1264
01:18:39,280 --> 01:18:41,120
Speaker 1: a kid, but I don't know if I ever picked

1265
01:18:41,160 --> 01:18:43,680
Speaker 1: them up and read them. I liked them, but I

1266
01:18:43,840 --> 01:18:47,320
Speaker 1: do remember if I'm bars Car Children had sound off.

1267
01:18:47,479 --> 01:18:51,280
Speaker 1: If you remember, my memory was I was disappointed because

1268
01:18:51,280 --> 01:18:54,920
Speaker 1: the first they're like orphans, and through some sort of

1269
01:18:55,840 --> 01:18:59,920
Speaker 1: series of unfortunate events, let's say, they do have to

1270
01:19:00,040 --> 01:19:03,559
Speaker 1: live in a box car temporarily. But I went into

1271
01:19:03,600 --> 01:19:06,080
Speaker 1: the series because there's like a million of them, the books,

1272
01:19:06,240 --> 01:19:09,160
Speaker 1: not children. I went into them being like, oh, this

1273
01:19:09,280 --> 01:19:12,320
Speaker 1: is gonna they're gonna always they're at the box car children.

1274
01:19:12,320 --> 01:19:13,920
Speaker 1: They're gonna keep living in the box car. They're gonna

1275
01:19:13,960 --> 01:19:16,519
Speaker 1: travel from place to place. They only live in the

1276
01:19:16,560 --> 01:19:19,360
Speaker 1: box car for the first book. Oh well, I mean

1277
01:19:19,479 --> 01:19:22,240
Speaker 1: that's good for them. I think it's good for them.

1278
01:19:23,160 --> 01:19:25,519
Speaker 1: But you were like, I want to know about these

1279
01:19:25,560 --> 01:19:27,920
Speaker 1: box car children living in these in this box car

1280
01:19:28,120 --> 01:19:30,120
Speaker 1: for the rest of their dayn lives. I was just

1281
01:19:30,200 --> 01:19:31,800
Speaker 1: more interested in where the box car was going to go.

1282
01:19:31,960 --> 01:19:33,000
Speaker 1: I thought it was gonna be sort of like a

1283
01:19:33,040 --> 01:19:35,840
Speaker 1: little travel kind of adventure. They'd go from place to

1284
01:19:35,920 --> 01:19:38,479
Speaker 1: place in the box car. It's just not how this

1285
01:19:38,720 --> 01:19:41,120
Speaker 1: that's not The series went in a different direction, and

1286
01:19:41,240 --> 01:19:45,000
Speaker 1: I can I can respect that sure that that happens anyway.

1287
01:19:46,560 --> 01:19:51,360
Speaker 1: The female characters in this movie are written in a

1288
01:19:51,439 --> 01:19:55,519
Speaker 1: way that's very frustrating, pretty inscrutable. Their choices make no

1289
01:19:55,640 --> 01:19:59,240
Speaker 1: sense in the case of a Lane or they go

1290
01:19:59,520 --> 01:20:04,040
Speaker 1: from athetic to evil in the case of Mrs Robinson.

1291
01:20:04,360 --> 01:20:08,160
Speaker 1: And with Ben, I feel like we've called we've addressed

1292
01:20:08,200 --> 01:20:09,880
Speaker 1: most of his behavior. I think the thing that we

1293
01:20:10,000 --> 01:20:13,360
Speaker 1: have not gotten around too that I was truly I

1294
01:20:13,520 --> 01:20:15,320
Speaker 1: did not remember it at all, and I was struck

1295
01:20:16,320 --> 01:20:18,360
Speaker 1: was when he told his parents that he was getting

1296
01:20:18,400 --> 01:20:20,800
Speaker 1: married to Elaine and then slowly was like, but I

1297
01:20:20,880 --> 01:20:24,400
Speaker 1: haven't asked her and doesn't know, and she doesn't like me,

1298
01:20:24,680 --> 01:20:27,840
Speaker 1: by the way, and it's tomorrow and now I'm taking

1299
01:20:28,040 --> 01:20:30,880
Speaker 1: your car to stock her in Berkeley, and you're just like,

1300
01:20:31,200 --> 01:20:33,080
Speaker 1: oh my god, to the point where I was like, well,

1301
01:20:33,160 --> 01:20:36,840
Speaker 1: at least the parents also seem completely confused as to

1302
01:20:36,960 --> 01:20:39,040
Speaker 1: what the funk is going on. But the parents are

1303
01:20:39,080 --> 01:20:44,920
Speaker 1: also like so so supportive of whatever their weirdo son

1304
01:20:45,040 --> 01:20:50,200
Speaker 1: wants to do that they don't whatever. I just it does.

1305
01:20:50,320 --> 01:20:53,719
Speaker 1: It does give me gen x, Like you understand, Mom. Meanwhile,

1306
01:20:54,520 --> 01:20:56,599
Speaker 1: Mom is like in love with you, would do anything

1307
01:20:56,680 --> 01:20:59,519
Speaker 1: for you, would die for you, and You're just like

1308
01:21:00,080 --> 01:21:02,599
Speaker 1: you're stifling me. I'm like, oh my god, she literally

1309
01:21:02,640 --> 01:21:05,519
Speaker 1: just bought you a car, but you a car. She

1310
01:21:05,560 --> 01:21:08,920
Speaker 1: didn't make you get a job, Like what what are you? God?

1311
01:21:08,960 --> 01:21:12,000
Speaker 1: I'm feeling like a real auntie right now. Okay, um,

1312
01:21:12,560 --> 01:21:15,280
Speaker 1: but that scene just absolutely blew my mind. And I

1313
01:21:15,400 --> 01:21:17,479
Speaker 1: know that that scene is supposed to be funny, which

1314
01:21:17,560 --> 01:21:19,559
Speaker 1: I did laugh, but it was because I was nervous

1315
01:21:19,680 --> 01:21:22,519
Speaker 1: because I'm afraid of him. I'm afraid of the character

1316
01:21:23,000 --> 01:21:26,719
Speaker 1: Ben Pp or whatever his name is. Did he freaks

1317
01:21:26,760 --> 01:21:31,280
Speaker 1: me out. He makes me really uncomfortable. Um yeah, okay tookey.

1318
01:21:31,560 --> 01:21:34,599
Speaker 1: A scene that I did genuinely laugh at was one

1319
01:21:34,640 --> 01:21:37,439
Speaker 1: of the many times Ben is floating in the pool

1320
01:21:38,080 --> 01:21:41,160
Speaker 1: at his house. He can't stop, he can't stop, won't stop.

1321
01:21:41,880 --> 01:21:45,880
Speaker 1: His dad, Kendall, comes up and he's like, you can't

1322
01:21:46,200 --> 01:21:48,519
Speaker 1: just be floating in the pool all the time, son,

1323
01:21:48,720 --> 01:21:51,240
Speaker 1: you gotta go out there and make something of yourself.

1324
01:21:51,720 --> 01:21:54,120
Speaker 1: And then he's like, I want to bet. And his

1325
01:21:54,240 --> 01:21:56,439
Speaker 1: dad's like, are you gonna go to graduate school or what?

1326
01:21:57,360 --> 01:22:00,280
Speaker 1: And Ben says either like no or I don't know.

1327
01:22:01,200 --> 01:22:03,720
Speaker 1: And then his dad is like, well, then would you

1328
01:22:03,760 --> 01:22:06,160
Speaker 1: mind telling me what those four years of college, what

1329
01:22:06,320 --> 01:22:09,160
Speaker 1: all that hard work was for? And then Ben's like

1330
01:22:09,560 --> 01:22:12,479
Speaker 1: you got me, And I'm like, ha ha. That is

1331
01:22:12,760 --> 01:22:18,000
Speaker 1: funny because it's like college is a scam, and there

1332
01:22:18,040 --> 01:22:20,600
Speaker 1: are moments where you're like this movie feed like is

1333
01:22:20,680 --> 01:22:23,720
Speaker 1: not completely unself aware like they. It does make a

1334
01:22:23,800 --> 01:22:28,600
Speaker 1: couple of points about like whatever, like the aimlessness of

1335
01:22:29,040 --> 01:22:31,880
Speaker 1: rich kids. I feel like is at some point in

1336
01:22:31,960 --> 01:22:35,720
Speaker 1: the movie feels pretty cogent. But then it, you know

1337
01:22:35,960 --> 01:22:38,080
Speaker 1: under I mean I don't know. I mean maybe that

1338
01:22:38,200 --> 01:22:40,640
Speaker 1: does sort of come through throughout because by the end,

1339
01:22:40,720 --> 01:22:44,400
Speaker 1: you're just like, oh, Ben has made yet another selfish,

1340
01:22:44,560 --> 01:22:49,000
Speaker 1: reckless rich boy decision by like doing this, but we

1341
01:22:49,120 --> 01:22:51,400
Speaker 1: are supposed to be rooting for him, but I do that,

1342
01:22:51,680 --> 01:22:53,720
Speaker 1: Like I feel like that got like a percentage of

1343
01:22:53,800 --> 01:22:59,240
Speaker 1: the way there, because he is a privileged, aimless fuco

1344
01:22:59,400 --> 01:23:02,400
Speaker 1: who doesn't know what he wants and will flop his

1345
01:23:02,520 --> 01:23:06,080
Speaker 1: way through life. And like again, which is like they

1346
01:23:06,280 --> 01:23:09,599
Speaker 1: start to explore it, but like things don't make enough

1347
01:23:09,640 --> 01:23:11,920
Speaker 1: sense for you to really be able to explore that

1348
01:23:12,080 --> 01:23:17,080
Speaker 1: topic with any sort of thoroughness or effectiveness. But I

1349
01:23:17,120 --> 01:23:19,760
Speaker 1: guess you do, you do. I guess to the movie's credit,

1350
01:23:19,840 --> 01:23:22,439
Speaker 1: you do get the vibe that it's like this person

1351
01:23:22,520 --> 01:23:24,280
Speaker 1: has so much privilege that they literally don't know what

1352
01:23:24,400 --> 01:23:27,080
Speaker 1: to do with it, and they're just making reckless decisions

1353
01:23:27,120 --> 01:23:30,240
Speaker 1: that are hurting other people. Um, he has no understanding

1354
01:23:30,320 --> 01:23:32,679
Speaker 1: of other people. He has really no interest in other people.

1355
01:23:32,840 --> 01:23:34,479
Speaker 1: And I do feel like the movie is at least

1356
01:23:34,600 --> 01:23:39,599
Speaker 1: aware of that. Um, he's a very very selfish person.

1357
01:23:39,920 --> 01:23:43,000
Speaker 1: And it's like, I don't even think this movie is bad.

1358
01:23:43,160 --> 01:23:44,720
Speaker 1: But I just I just I just think it's like

1359
01:23:44,920 --> 01:23:48,640
Speaker 1: so up its own butt in a weird way, Like

1360
01:23:48,760 --> 01:23:51,200
Speaker 1: I just don't it's so of its time that I

1361
01:23:51,240 --> 01:23:54,600
Speaker 1: get it's really hard to interact with. Right, there were

1362
01:23:54,600 --> 01:23:57,200
Speaker 1: a lot of things where I'm like, yeah, Lane is

1363
01:23:57,280 --> 01:24:01,000
Speaker 1: just agreeing to marry any guy who goes on one

1364
01:24:01,200 --> 01:24:04,080
Speaker 1: date with her. But I'm like, is that just how

1365
01:24:04,200 --> 01:24:08,240
Speaker 1: it was in the sixties, Like maybe there I feel

1366
01:24:08,280 --> 01:24:11,160
Speaker 1: like there is a way that you could acknowledge that,

1367
01:24:11,640 --> 01:24:13,960
Speaker 1: Like there's a way that if that is a because

1368
01:24:14,000 --> 01:24:16,960
Speaker 1: I do like that definitely was a pressure that existed

1369
01:24:17,120 --> 01:24:20,519
Speaker 1: in the sixties. And maybe if that's asking too much

1370
01:24:20,520 --> 01:24:22,160
Speaker 1: of a movie, because it's like, if you were watching

1371
01:24:22,200 --> 01:24:23,320
Speaker 1: it in the time it came out, you would have

1372
01:24:23,400 --> 01:24:26,519
Speaker 1: just known that, so that is completely possible. But I

1373
01:24:26,680 --> 01:24:29,560
Speaker 1: just I don't know. Maybe I have this complete misunderstanding

1374
01:24:30,080 --> 01:24:32,640
Speaker 1: of Central California in the nine but it was like

1375
01:24:32,720 --> 01:24:36,080
Speaker 1: not making sense to me. If this happened in like Idaho,

1376
01:24:36,680 --> 01:24:38,640
Speaker 1: it would make more sense to me than if it

1377
01:24:38,720 --> 01:24:42,640
Speaker 1: was happening in like this hotbed of activism. It just

1378
01:24:42,800 --> 01:24:46,439
Speaker 1: like wasn't. But also it's like I think that you

1379
01:24:46,800 --> 01:24:48,400
Speaker 1: very well may be right it's like if you were

1380
01:24:48,560 --> 01:24:50,920
Speaker 1: if you were there, you would know like people. I mean,

1381
01:24:51,000 --> 01:24:53,840
Speaker 1: I know people like I know that my mom had

1382
01:24:53,880 --> 01:24:56,479
Speaker 1: friends who dropped out of college to get married. Like there.

1383
01:24:56,800 --> 01:25:01,120
Speaker 1: You know, It's definitely was a thing throughout most of

1384
01:25:01,160 --> 01:25:05,040
Speaker 1: the twentieth century. I just don't understand why. I just

1385
01:25:05,120 --> 01:25:09,120
Speaker 1: don't think we know Elaine well enough to have the

1386
01:25:09,200 --> 01:25:12,639
Speaker 1: context for why it's happening for her slash at all.

1387
01:25:12,920 --> 01:25:16,200
Speaker 1: We don't know her really at all. No, do we

1388
01:25:16,280 --> 01:25:19,519
Speaker 1: know what she's we don't mean, to be fair, we

1389
01:25:19,560 --> 01:25:23,559
Speaker 1: also don't know what Ben majored in. That is true,

1390
01:25:23,560 --> 01:25:27,080
Speaker 1: I don't think so. Maybe and maybe the message there

1391
01:25:27,200 --> 01:25:30,639
Speaker 1: is like your education is pointless, which not completely wrong.

1392
01:25:30,880 --> 01:25:34,639
Speaker 1: Um So, I mean I'm pro education, to be clear,

1393
01:25:34,800 --> 01:25:38,720
Speaker 1: I'm just anti why does it cost sixty dollars a

1394
01:25:38,840 --> 01:25:42,960
Speaker 1: year to go to school? And I'm also uh anti

1395
01:25:43,280 --> 01:25:47,400
Speaker 1: I'm against yeah, overpriced education for things that you could

1396
01:25:47,520 --> 01:25:52,599
Speaker 1: just learn for free or something. Well, it's just I mean,

1397
01:25:52,640 --> 01:25:58,320
Speaker 1: I'm god whatever, Like my Alma matter offers a comedy major,

1398
01:25:58,479 --> 01:26:02,360
Speaker 1: which I think is straight up the financial exploitation. You

1399
01:26:02,800 --> 01:26:06,400
Speaker 1: do not need to pay two dollars to go to

1400
01:26:06,520 --> 01:26:10,160
Speaker 1: an open mic. Famously you have to pay like, you know,

1401
01:26:10,280 --> 01:26:12,280
Speaker 1: twelve dollars at the beginning, because they do make you,

1402
01:26:12,479 --> 01:26:15,160
Speaker 1: you know, have two narrow ganthets or whatever. But like

1403
01:26:15,880 --> 01:26:19,519
Speaker 1: get a fun whatever that's not but you know, get

1404
01:26:19,560 --> 01:26:21,960
Speaker 1: a degree for things you need degrees for, certainly not

1405
01:26:22,080 --> 01:26:25,439
Speaker 1: a master's degree in screenwriting from Boston University, though I was,

1406
01:26:25,680 --> 01:26:28,439
Speaker 1: you know, most of the arts you could probably skip

1407
01:26:28,520 --> 01:26:33,479
Speaker 1: it um or you know, go to in affordable university. Okay,

1408
01:26:34,600 --> 01:26:36,800
Speaker 1: I wanted to talk a little bit the I think that,

1409
01:26:36,960 --> 01:26:42,160
Speaker 1: like the last topic I wanted to discuss was Mrs

1410
01:26:42,280 --> 01:26:49,320
Speaker 1: Robinson's sexuality and how it is presented and the ups

1411
01:26:49,400 --> 01:26:53,080
Speaker 1: the downs, the in betweens because we we've sort of,

1412
01:26:53,720 --> 01:26:55,920
Speaker 1: I mean we we had no choice but to really

1413
01:26:55,960 --> 01:26:58,599
Speaker 1: get into the weeds as to like what the characters

1414
01:26:58,640 --> 01:27:01,519
Speaker 1: are thinking, and I do. I will fully acknowledge to

1415
01:27:01,800 --> 01:27:04,400
Speaker 1: any of our listeners who are older than us that

1416
01:27:04,600 --> 01:27:08,760
Speaker 1: there might be generational things that we are missing here. Absolutely,

1417
01:27:09,520 --> 01:27:11,560
Speaker 1: But I also think that there's just a lot of

1418
01:27:11,600 --> 01:27:15,560
Speaker 1: stuff in this A lot of the women's specifically motivations

1419
01:27:16,400 --> 01:27:20,200
Speaker 1: don't make a ton of sense, even if the realities

1420
01:27:20,360 --> 01:27:23,640
Speaker 1: of the era are true, Like there's no need to

1421
01:27:23,920 --> 01:27:29,080
Speaker 1: vilify Mrs Robinson with no context whatsoever. There's no reason

1422
01:27:29,160 --> 01:27:33,000
Speaker 1: to not show the mother and the daughter's relationship. There's

1423
01:27:33,000 --> 01:27:35,479
Speaker 1: no reason that we don't know what Mrs Robinson told

1424
01:27:35,520 --> 01:27:37,679
Speaker 1: her husband. Like the movie just doesn't really have interest

1425
01:27:37,840 --> 01:27:44,000
Speaker 1: in many facets of its women. But I do want

1426
01:27:44,080 --> 01:27:47,920
Speaker 1: to discuss it because for a character, not an actor,

1427
01:27:48,120 --> 01:27:51,280
Speaker 1: that for a character that's over forty and a woman,

1428
01:27:51,400 --> 01:27:54,519
Speaker 1: I feel like it was edgy at the time to

1429
01:27:54,640 --> 01:27:59,760
Speaker 1: even present her as sexually viable. Certainly, and again that's

1430
01:27:59,800 --> 01:28:04,120
Speaker 1: going to be a double edged situation because her sexuality

1431
01:28:04,240 --> 01:28:07,040
Speaker 1: is it is like presented as like it's clear that

1432
01:28:07,200 --> 01:28:11,320
Speaker 1: like Ben desires her. There's no doubt that, like they

1433
01:28:11,400 --> 01:28:16,360
Speaker 1: are attracted to each other physically. He's like like he says,

1434
01:28:16,640 --> 01:28:21,639
Speaker 1: I find you the most attractive of all of my parents,

1435
01:28:21,720 --> 01:28:24,160
Speaker 1: parents friends. So he has to like put a little

1436
01:28:24,360 --> 01:28:27,200
Speaker 1: kind of a funny line, like you know, terms and

1437
01:28:27,280 --> 01:28:29,800
Speaker 1: conditions on it. I do think that is kind of

1438
01:28:29,840 --> 01:28:34,280
Speaker 1: a funny line. But like, yeah, I I feel like

1439
01:28:34,520 --> 01:28:38,920
Speaker 1: we've talked about so many movies where women past whatever

1440
01:28:39,080 --> 01:28:41,519
Speaker 1: age it is for the era it's coming out, and

1441
01:28:42,080 --> 01:28:47,080
Speaker 1: their bodies past a certain age are grotesque and scary,

1442
01:28:47,479 --> 01:28:50,040
Speaker 1: often used for horror and all and all this stuff

1443
01:28:50,640 --> 01:28:53,960
Speaker 1: that is not how Mrs Robinson's body is you. She

1444
01:28:54,160 --> 01:28:57,599
Speaker 1: is presented as a very viable, desirable woman, but then

1445
01:28:57,640 --> 01:28:59,840
Speaker 1: there also are these moments where we're supposed to feel

1446
01:29:00,520 --> 01:29:04,840
Speaker 1: badly for her. But it's weird. I feel like I

1447
01:29:04,960 --> 01:29:09,200
Speaker 1: do like the core idea of like a movie in

1448
01:29:09,240 --> 01:29:11,800
Speaker 1: the late sixties presenting a woman over the age of

1449
01:29:11,920 --> 01:29:15,360
Speaker 1: like thirty who's like married and like cheating on her

1450
01:29:15,439 --> 01:29:18,360
Speaker 1: husband and like all the stuff you didn't see very often,

1451
01:29:18,479 --> 01:29:23,000
Speaker 1: and still presenting her as like this sexy, complicated person

1452
01:29:23,640 --> 01:29:28,840
Speaker 1: at the beginning of the movie. But but again, it

1453
01:29:29,080 --> 01:29:31,320
Speaker 1: like is kind of a zero sum game because of

1454
01:29:31,439 --> 01:29:33,760
Speaker 1: how coercive she is at the top, and then how

1455
01:29:33,920 --> 01:29:36,240
Speaker 1: villain is she is, And so there's just like there's

1456
01:29:36,320 --> 01:29:39,880
Speaker 1: twenty minutes where I'm like really rooting for her, right

1457
01:29:40,160 --> 01:29:44,879
Speaker 1: and and if you're if you're able to see pasted

1458
01:29:45,360 --> 01:29:48,160
Speaker 1: the way the movie wants you to look at her

1459
01:29:48,400 --> 01:29:50,120
Speaker 1: and just kind of in which I think you can

1460
01:29:50,760 --> 01:29:54,840
Speaker 1: totally and you know, that's how I'm reading the movie,

1461
01:29:55,479 --> 01:30:00,639
Speaker 1: but right it's it's so limited. And then she turns

1462
01:30:01,080 --> 01:30:07,000
Speaker 1: into like a sea witch. She literally it's it's too late.

1463
01:30:07,560 --> 01:30:10,040
Speaker 1: I think that is what Earth said. It is literally

1464
01:30:11,280 --> 01:30:15,519
Speaker 1: it's too and then yeah, and then Elaine turns back

1465
01:30:15,560 --> 01:30:20,200
Speaker 1: into a mermaid. It's a whole thing. But no, I

1466
01:30:20,360 --> 01:30:22,760
Speaker 1: I agree that it's it's you know, not nothing. That

1467
01:30:23,240 --> 01:30:27,520
Speaker 1: this is a movie, at least in part, about a relationship,

1468
01:30:27,600 --> 01:30:32,439
Speaker 1: a sexual relationship between an older woman and a younger man,

1469
01:30:32,720 --> 01:30:37,480
Speaker 1: and one that is not because we've examined many relationships

1470
01:30:37,640 --> 01:30:44,240
Speaker 1: in movies on the podcast where it's like illegal or like,

1471
01:30:44,520 --> 01:30:47,280
Speaker 1: don't even get me started about liquorice, pizza, you know,

1472
01:30:47,880 --> 01:30:52,719
Speaker 1: but um, this one, it's certainly I think society would

1473
01:30:52,720 --> 01:30:56,080
Speaker 1: consider it taboo because she's like old enough to be

1474
01:30:56,960 --> 01:31:02,280
Speaker 1: his mom. But he is a full adult, a young adult.

1475
01:31:02,280 --> 01:31:04,880
Speaker 1: You know, he's only twenty or twenty one, but you

1476
01:31:04,960 --> 01:31:08,080
Speaker 1: know he's he's able to make his own choices as

1477
01:31:08,160 --> 01:31:11,560
Speaker 1: a legal adult. So yeah, it's not even it's not

1478
01:31:11,680 --> 01:31:15,920
Speaker 1: the age gap that troubles me. It's it's all about

1479
01:31:17,200 --> 01:31:24,240
Speaker 1: her approach to entering this relationship with him. And but

1480
01:31:24,439 --> 01:31:28,840
Speaker 1: so if if the movie eliminated that, which I wish

1481
01:31:28,920 --> 01:31:31,760
Speaker 1: it would have, if it was just about a woman

1482
01:31:31,800 --> 01:31:35,439
Speaker 1: who yeah, like I'm trapped in this marriage, in this

1483
01:31:35,720 --> 01:31:40,120
Speaker 1: sexless marriage with a man who doesn't desire me, or

1484
01:31:40,560 --> 01:31:42,840
Speaker 1: appreciate me, or love me, or you know, any of

1485
01:31:42,880 --> 01:31:45,439
Speaker 1: the things that you want out of a relationship. I

1486
01:31:45,720 --> 01:31:49,920
Speaker 1: am seeking love and affection and validation elsewhere like this

1487
01:31:50,080 --> 01:31:51,880
Speaker 1: is a very relatable thing for a lot of people,

1488
01:31:52,360 --> 01:31:55,599
Speaker 1: or even like I am seeking a no strength attached

1489
01:31:55,680 --> 01:32:00,200
Speaker 1: sexual relationship. Also fine, right, right? Could have been. Then

1490
01:32:00,240 --> 01:32:02,360
Speaker 1: it's like, I feel like there's an alternate version of

1491
01:32:02,439 --> 01:32:06,439
Speaker 1: this movie where they're like, I just feel like they're

1492
01:32:06,479 --> 01:32:11,240
Speaker 1: sexual experience, even in like the traditional like tropes of

1493
01:32:11,360 --> 01:32:15,679
Speaker 1: sexual experience doesn't track where it's like you would I think,

1494
01:32:16,360 --> 01:32:18,640
Speaker 1: and it does. I mean, we don't have proof that

1495
01:32:18,840 --> 01:32:20,800
Speaker 1: Mrs Robinson has done this before, but I feel like

1496
01:32:20,800 --> 01:32:22,920
Speaker 1: we're supposed to believe that she's been cheating on her

1497
01:32:23,000 --> 01:32:27,519
Speaker 1: husband for sometime with certainly within the realm of possibilities. Yeah,

1498
01:32:28,240 --> 01:32:31,920
Speaker 1: she's more she's way more experienced than he is. So

1499
01:32:32,080 --> 01:32:34,040
Speaker 1: the fact that she's the one that ends up getting

1500
01:32:34,160 --> 01:32:37,680
Speaker 1: jealous and it's not like him. And again, this is

1501
01:32:37,760 --> 01:32:40,439
Speaker 1: not a universal experience, but if like it's often portrayed,

1502
01:32:40,520 --> 01:32:42,559
Speaker 1: and I don't know it was, it was my experience.

1503
01:32:42,560 --> 01:32:44,800
Speaker 1: I know, it's some people's experience that like the first

1504
01:32:45,439 --> 01:32:48,000
Speaker 1: person that you have sex with sometimes like you have

1505
01:32:48,200 --> 01:32:51,600
Speaker 1: you developed a attachment to that you want a relationship

1506
01:32:51,640 --> 01:32:54,360
Speaker 1: with them. It would like the dynamics like don't even

1507
01:32:55,479 --> 01:33:00,720
Speaker 1: makes sense a track very well, right, and now it's

1508
01:33:00,800 --> 01:33:07,160
Speaker 1: just so this could have been a story that is

1509
01:33:07,479 --> 01:33:13,160
Speaker 1: just far more empathetic to the women in the narrative

1510
01:33:13,360 --> 01:33:17,560
Speaker 1: and just like more thoughtful and interesting. But instead it

1511
01:33:17,720 --> 01:33:21,920
Speaker 1: just like leans into the trope of older women are

1512
01:33:22,280 --> 01:33:26,280
Speaker 1: desperate and pathetic and if they want sex, then look,

1513
01:33:26,520 --> 01:33:33,120
Speaker 1: that's scary and evil beware, which the movie feels differently

1514
01:33:33,160 --> 01:33:37,880
Speaker 1: about at different times. It's very confusing. By the end,

1515
01:33:37,960 --> 01:33:41,040
Speaker 1: it's like she's evil to have ever wanted sex. But

1516
01:33:41,200 --> 01:33:48,800
Speaker 1: then oh, pp like even can I can I unfortunately

1517
01:33:48,840 --> 01:33:51,080
Speaker 1: share a Roger Eber quote? But I do think it's

1518
01:33:51,080 --> 01:33:54,960
Speaker 1: an interesting one. Yeah please? So he I referenced this earlier.

1519
01:33:55,040 --> 01:33:58,280
Speaker 1: I have the quote now, So he like praised the

1520
01:33:58,320 --> 01:34:00,280
Speaker 1: hell out of this movie when it came out in

1521
01:34:00,479 --> 01:34:04,759
Speaker 1: nineteen sixties seven, then he covered it again in nineteen

1522
01:34:05,000 --> 01:34:09,600
Speaker 1: nine seven, what the year Titanic came out. I know,

1523
01:34:09,880 --> 01:34:13,959
Speaker 1: don't you have anything better to do? Watch Titanic? Watch Titanic,

1524
01:34:14,960 --> 01:34:18,720
Speaker 1: but but I thought his reflection was interesting. So here

1525
01:34:18,720 --> 01:34:21,799
Speaker 1: it is, um quote. It comes out at a specific

1526
01:34:21,840 --> 01:34:24,000
Speaker 1: time in the late nineteen sixties when parents stood for

1527
01:34:24,080 --> 01:34:28,040
Speaker 1: stodgy middle class values and the kids were joyous rebels

1528
01:34:28,080 --> 01:34:31,519
Speaker 1: at the cutting edge of the sexual and political revolutions. Today,

1529
01:34:31,600 --> 01:34:33,760
Speaker 1: looking at the graduate, I see Benjamin not as an

1530
01:34:33,760 --> 01:34:36,760
Speaker 1: admirable rebel, but as a self centered creep who's put

1531
01:34:36,840 --> 01:34:39,439
Speaker 1: downs of adults are tiresome. To know that the movie

1532
01:34:39,520 --> 01:34:42,000
Speaker 1: once spoke strongly to a generation is to understand how

1533
01:34:42,080 --> 01:34:45,040
Speaker 1: deep the generation gap ran during that extraordinary time in

1534
01:34:45,120 --> 01:34:49,479
Speaker 1: the late nineteen sixties. Unquote, So you know, a moment

1535
01:34:49,560 --> 01:34:56,320
Speaker 1: of clarity from our old friend Roger. I think that

1536
01:34:56,560 --> 01:35:00,240
Speaker 1: was a pretty thoughtful reflection. And also the the other

1537
01:35:00,320 --> 01:35:02,640
Speaker 1: thing that's like left out of this movie that you

1538
01:35:02,640 --> 01:35:06,000
Speaker 1: would think would be but like just historically, you're like,

1539
01:35:06,120 --> 01:35:09,800
Speaker 1: why is like the war not being discussed at all,

1540
01:35:09,960 --> 01:35:13,280
Speaker 1: like all this stuff that like it it was such

1541
01:35:13,280 --> 01:35:16,800
Speaker 1: a politically charged time, and it does give the movie

1542
01:35:16,920 --> 01:35:20,080
Speaker 1: like the illusion of timelessness, but it does feel like

1543
01:35:20,120 --> 01:35:23,640
Speaker 1: there's these huge context holes that aren't there that you

1544
01:35:23,720 --> 01:35:27,760
Speaker 1: would think would be on a twenty one year old mind,

1545
01:35:28,000 --> 01:35:30,479
Speaker 1: Like I just for a movie that's supposed to be

1546
01:35:30,520 --> 01:35:34,599
Speaker 1: about like this radical generation, it is like pretty outside

1547
01:35:34,640 --> 01:35:39,240
Speaker 1: of the class commentary, pretty like a political and its

1548
01:35:39,720 --> 01:35:43,400
Speaker 1: views like it's not really saying when people thought it was.

1549
01:35:43,560 --> 01:35:45,320
Speaker 1: I don't. I don't know, or maybe it was saying

1550
01:35:45,400 --> 01:35:47,960
Speaker 1: something at the time and it no longer scans for

1551
01:35:48,200 --> 01:35:50,880
Speaker 1: modern audiences. I don't really know. I just know that

1552
01:35:51,000 --> 01:35:56,000
Speaker 1: it's a it's a baffling watch for me same. I

1553
01:35:56,160 --> 01:36:02,400
Speaker 1: just can't be asked to sympathize with an extremely privileged

1554
01:36:03,200 --> 01:36:07,960
Speaker 1: like white man who is a stalker and a creep.

1555
01:36:08,360 --> 01:36:11,720
Speaker 1: But again, it's like unfortunately not the last, not the

1556
01:36:11,760 --> 01:36:14,800
Speaker 1: first or the last character that we've been asked to

1557
01:36:15,439 --> 01:36:17,000
Speaker 1: make that leap of faith with it, and then people

1558
01:36:17,040 --> 01:36:19,000
Speaker 1: at the time we're happy to do it. It's just

1559
01:36:19,120 --> 01:36:23,840
Speaker 1: fucking Joker money els. I mean, I don't want to

1560
01:36:23,840 --> 01:36:28,040
Speaker 1: talk about Joker, not today. Um. Look, I love Catherine Ross.

1561
01:36:28,720 --> 01:36:31,000
Speaker 1: I didn't I didn't know. Did you know that she's

1562
01:36:31,240 --> 01:36:34,760
Speaker 1: married to Sam Elliott? I did know that, But that's

1563
01:36:34,760 --> 01:36:36,559
Speaker 1: one of those things I learned and then I forget,

1564
01:36:36,680 --> 01:36:38,800
Speaker 1: and then I learned it again like a year later,

1565
01:36:39,320 --> 01:36:45,720
Speaker 1: and I really like her. Um, okay, joke. Do you

1566
01:36:45,760 --> 01:36:47,800
Speaker 1: have anything else you wanted to touch on? I don't

1567
01:36:47,960 --> 01:36:52,760
Speaker 1: believe so, okay, So this movie does not pass the

1568
01:36:52,800 --> 01:36:56,559
Speaker 1: bucketle test. I don't think, um, that one interaction between

1569
01:36:56,640 --> 01:36:58,640
Speaker 1: the two of them, But I think that Ben is

1570
01:36:58,720 --> 01:37:01,160
Speaker 1: so heavily the subtext of that, and marriage to a

1571
01:37:01,240 --> 01:37:04,439
Speaker 1: man is so heavily the subtext of the ursula aerial

1572
01:37:04,520 --> 01:37:08,080
Speaker 1: interaction that I don't count it. Can you refer to

1573
01:37:08,400 --> 01:37:11,559
Speaker 1: that scene that you're talking about, because I don't even

1574
01:37:11,760 --> 01:37:14,960
Speaker 1: remember an interaction between them. I know there's a scene

1575
01:37:14,960 --> 01:37:19,160
Speaker 1: where they're like in the same house. It's at the wedding.

1576
01:37:19,280 --> 01:37:22,639
Speaker 1: It's a it's a it's the last interaction before Elaine

1577
01:37:22,840 --> 01:37:28,479
Speaker 1: and Ben run away. It's um, Mrs Robinson grabs Elaine's arm,

1578
01:37:28,560 --> 01:37:31,920
Speaker 1: says it's too late, Elaine says, not for me, and

1579
01:37:32,000 --> 01:37:36,400
Speaker 1: then Mrs Robinson starts hitting her. Do you remember now? Yeah?

1580
01:37:36,640 --> 01:37:42,160
Speaker 1: Very cool? Um, So that definitely, And the only other

1581
01:37:42,240 --> 01:37:46,480
Speaker 1: time women are in the same room is at the parties.

1582
01:37:47,520 --> 01:37:50,920
Speaker 1: And then I don't even think we know, like what

1583
01:37:51,120 --> 01:37:53,439
Speaker 1: Ben's mom's name, and we don't know who those people are.

1584
01:37:53,560 --> 01:37:56,479
Speaker 1: We never see them again, and they are all talking

1585
01:37:56,520 --> 01:37:59,200
Speaker 1: about Ben yeah, Like, do we even know what Mrs

1586
01:37:59,280 --> 01:38:02,639
Speaker 1: Robinson's first name is? Like I want to just check

1587
01:38:03,160 --> 01:38:05,680
Speaker 1: to see it. We know you don't. You never find

1588
01:38:05,680 --> 01:38:08,080
Speaker 1: out what her first name is. It's it's all Mr

1589
01:38:08,160 --> 01:38:10,599
Speaker 1: and miss it. Yeah, I'm I mean, I'm not inclined

1590
01:38:10,640 --> 01:38:13,000
Speaker 1: to give this movie any leeway or benefit of the doubt.

1591
01:38:13,040 --> 01:38:16,840
Speaker 1: It doesn't it doesn't pass. Everyone's talking about Benjamin all

1592
01:38:16,960 --> 01:38:21,080
Speaker 1: the time, and it's exhausting. And with that in mind,

1593
01:38:21,360 --> 01:38:26,920
Speaker 1: let's let's pivot over to our metric. The nipples scales

1594
01:38:27,360 --> 01:38:30,920
Speaker 1: zero to five nipples based on looking at the movie

1595
01:38:31,000 --> 01:38:36,920
Speaker 1: through an intersectional feminist lens. Um gonna give this movie.

1596
01:38:38,160 --> 01:38:40,880
Speaker 1: I will give it a half nipple, Okay, And I'll

1597
01:38:40,920 --> 01:38:44,800
Speaker 1: give it that instead of zero nipples, because I do

1598
01:38:45,920 --> 01:38:51,439
Speaker 1: think it was a cool choice to tell a story

1599
01:38:51,640 --> 01:38:55,599
Speaker 1: and you know, adapt a major motion picture which would

1600
01:38:55,680 --> 01:38:59,080
Speaker 1: become the highest grossing movie of that year, a story

1601
01:38:59,160 --> 01:39:03,679
Speaker 1: about a kind of like taboo subject in an older

1602
01:39:03,880 --> 01:39:07,200
Speaker 1: woman and a younger man. And you can make an

1603
01:39:07,320 --> 01:39:11,559
Speaker 1: argument that it is not appropriate or like the age

1604
01:39:11,600 --> 01:39:14,360
Speaker 1: gap is too big, you can make an argument that

1605
01:39:14,640 --> 01:39:18,240
Speaker 1: it is not. It's it's fine because they're both legal,

1606
01:39:18,320 --> 01:39:23,320
Speaker 1: consenting adults. I understand kind of both sides, not to

1607
01:39:23,400 --> 01:39:29,360
Speaker 1: be a centrist over here, but um ok, Mr Biden,

1608
01:39:29,720 --> 01:39:36,080
Speaker 1: thanks for your insight. But I appreciate any any story

1609
01:39:36,240 --> 01:39:40,679
Speaker 1: that is willing to explore kind of like a cultural

1610
01:39:40,920 --> 01:39:45,439
Speaker 1: taboo around that, especially when older women's sexuality is so

1611
01:39:45,640 --> 01:39:52,679
Speaker 1: often demonized and made to seem grotesque and horrific and scary,

1612
01:39:52,760 --> 01:39:56,719
Speaker 1: which this movie ultimately does to some extent. But there's

1613
01:39:56,760 --> 01:39:59,720
Speaker 1: that interesting twenty minutes where where I think maybe it

1614
01:40:00,400 --> 01:40:04,080
Speaker 1: and then it's right. But but the president had been

1615
01:40:04,360 --> 01:40:08,320
Speaker 1: set of her being so pushy and coercive that you

1616
01:40:08,479 --> 01:40:11,600
Speaker 1: kind of did see that going in that direction. But

1617
01:40:12,200 --> 01:40:17,439
Speaker 1: I so I appreciate this movie, you know, exploring that topic.

1618
01:40:17,920 --> 01:40:20,840
Speaker 1: It mishandles it, and it mishandles everything else, and it

1619
01:40:20,960 --> 01:40:24,200
Speaker 1: asks us to, you know, root for a character who

1620
01:40:24,439 --> 01:40:26,960
Speaker 1: spends the back half of the movie doing nothing but

1621
01:40:27,439 --> 01:40:31,400
Speaker 1: stalking his love interest, the front half of the movie

1622
01:40:31,479 --> 01:40:34,960
Speaker 1: being the most boring man alive, like sitting around in

1623
01:40:35,000 --> 01:40:39,559
Speaker 1: a pool all day, just lapping up his luxurious life.

1624
01:40:39,840 --> 01:40:41,320
Speaker 1: But I agree with you. I do agree with you

1625
01:40:41,400 --> 01:40:44,680
Speaker 1: that it's like this movie is tackling a topic that

1626
01:40:44,760 --> 01:40:48,400
Speaker 1: no one else was tackling in a major movie, especially successfully.

1627
01:40:48,880 --> 01:40:55,760
Speaker 1: So it's a real bumber then it bumb Yeah, so

1628
01:40:55,880 --> 01:40:58,559
Speaker 1: I'll give it half interesting that an attempt was made, right,

1629
01:40:58,880 --> 01:41:00,680
Speaker 1: So I'll give it a half to bolt for that.

1630
01:41:01,760 --> 01:41:06,080
Speaker 1: It's also an extraordinarily white movie. Um, we're in fu

1631
01:41:06,320 --> 01:41:11,160
Speaker 1: California during Like, it's just it's it's absurd that it's

1632
01:41:11,520 --> 01:41:15,760
Speaker 1: as what it so, Yeah, one half nipple and I'll

1633
01:41:15,920 --> 01:41:20,200
Speaker 1: give it. I'll split it between and Bancroft and Catherine Ross.

1634
01:41:21,800 --> 01:41:24,200
Speaker 1: I'll meet you there. I think half a nipple. Uh,

1635
01:41:24,479 --> 01:41:28,200
Speaker 1: you know, an attempt was made, and I do like

1636
01:41:28,520 --> 01:41:32,680
Speaker 1: that the movie gives you more information about Mrs Robinson's

1637
01:41:32,720 --> 01:41:37,439
Speaker 1: backstory than anyone else in the movie, including Ben, but

1638
01:41:37,680 --> 01:41:41,160
Speaker 1: then leverages that against her for the remainder of the

1639
01:41:41,240 --> 01:41:44,080
Speaker 1: movie for reasons that are absolutely baffling to me. Um,

1640
01:41:45,360 --> 01:41:47,640
Speaker 1: I yeah, I mean we we've we've talked about it

1641
01:41:47,680 --> 01:41:49,240
Speaker 1: quite a bit. I feel like there's just like there's

1642
01:41:49,560 --> 01:41:52,240
Speaker 1: a lot of interesting potential in this movie that I

1643
01:41:52,360 --> 01:41:55,599
Speaker 1: didn't just go nowhere, just completely undercut where it could

1644
01:41:55,600 --> 01:42:00,639
Speaker 1: have gone. So I yeah, ultimately very bummed out by

1645
01:42:00,960 --> 01:42:04,120
Speaker 1: most of the creative choices in this movie. I love

1646
01:42:04,280 --> 01:42:08,400
Speaker 1: and Bancroft I love Katherine Ross. Their characters deserved better,

1647
01:42:08,479 --> 01:42:12,000
Speaker 1: Their characters deserved to talk to each other, and maybe

1648
01:42:12,080 --> 01:42:15,679
Speaker 1: even makes sense, so I'll split it between them as well.

1649
01:42:16,800 --> 01:42:21,240
Speaker 1: I don't see myself watching this movie again. Nope. Well

1650
01:42:23,560 --> 01:42:30,920
Speaker 1: to you, Mrs loft Funcle. Here's to you, Mrs der

1651
01:42:31,040 --> 01:42:36,000
Speaker 1: Funkele Jesus loves you more you will know. Oh my goodness,

1652
01:42:36,080 --> 01:42:44,639
Speaker 1: thank you so much. Um yeah, so that's the graduate. Um. Sorry, sorry,

1653
01:42:44,680 --> 01:42:49,559
Speaker 1: if you're mad again, argue with the wall. We're right kid,

1654
01:42:50,800 --> 01:42:55,640
Speaker 1: yea hey, give us a little follow on Twitter and Instagram.

1655
01:42:55,720 --> 01:42:59,840
Speaker 1: At Bachtelcast, you can scoot on over to our Patreon

1656
01:43:00,000 --> 01:43:03,400
Speaker 1: on a k a Matreon at patreon dot com slash

1657
01:43:03,439 --> 01:43:07,599
Speaker 1: becktel Cast, where you'll get to bonus episodes every single month,

1658
01:43:07,760 --> 01:43:12,840
Speaker 1: plus the entire back catalog of well over one hundred

1659
01:43:12,880 --> 01:43:17,040
Speaker 1: bonus episodes that you can't find anywhere else. And right

1660
01:43:17,080 --> 01:43:20,000
Speaker 1: now it's Jamie's birthday. Months and what are we gonna do?

1661
01:43:20,479 --> 01:43:23,519
Speaker 1: None of your business, I guess I always have to

1662
01:43:23,600 --> 01:43:27,080
Speaker 1: tune in and find out we're gonna have some fun.

1663
01:43:27,120 --> 01:43:28,800
Speaker 1: We're gonna have some fun. I can't wait. And you

1664
01:43:28,840 --> 01:43:32,000
Speaker 1: can check out our merch of few, so please at

1665
01:43:32,200 --> 01:43:36,599
Speaker 1: t public dot com, slash the Bechtel cast and with that, Kaitlin,

1666
01:43:36,680 --> 01:43:38,840
Speaker 1: do you want to get on a municipal bus with

1667
01:43:38,920 --> 01:43:43,679
Speaker 1: me and have some regrets? I would love to, Jamie,

1668
01:43:44,320 --> 01:43:51,200
Speaker 1: Do Do Do Do Do Do? Hello? Darkness movie a

1669
01:43:51,280 --> 01:43:54,760
Speaker 1: dir Funcle classic. Love it alright, Bye bye bye