Speaker 1: Hey, friends, it is a weird time to be making content,
Speaker 1: certainly from here in Los Angeles, California. This wonderful episode
Speaker 1: with Lily we actually recorded a few weeks before the fires,
Speaker 1: and now it's up and we won't be discussing it
Speaker 1: obviously on this episode since it hadn't happened yet. But
Speaker 1: I just wanted to make sure that everyone knows there
Speaker 1: are so many incredible resources and groups that you can support.
Speaker 1: I've actually got a really wonderful mutual aid list in
Speaker 1: a highlight on my Instagram stories and we will put
Speaker 1: it in the show notes as well. If you have
Speaker 1: a heart for the people and places that make La
Speaker 1: so wonderful and special, please consider visiting that and supporting
Speaker 1: our city. Love you all, I hope you're staying safe.
Speaker 1: Welcome to work in progress high WIF Smarties. Today we
Speaker 1: are joined by someone I have been a fan of
Speaker 1: for such a long time. I am so impressed, and
Speaker 1: I so admire the way that she carries herself, the
Speaker 1: things she's willing to talk about, the ways she's willing
Speaker 1: to sent her really human experiences in a world that
Speaker 1: doesn't always want to do that. And she happens to
Speaker 1: be brilliant, stunning, an entrepreneur, a producer, an incredible actor,
Speaker 1: and an author. Today's guest is none other than Lily
Speaker 1: ryan Hart. You likely met Lily portraying Betty Cooper on
Speaker 1: the CW drama series Riverdale. Can't wait to talk to
Speaker 1: her about our high school experiences on the cedeb. She
Speaker 1: has worked on incredible films from Hustlers to Chemical Hearts,
Speaker 1: and she recently launched her own production company. On top
Speaker 1: of all of this incredible success, Lily released a book
Speaker 1: of poet in twenty twenty titled Swimming Lessons, and her
Speaker 1: book explores themes like young love, anxiety, depression, fame, heartbreak.
Speaker 1: These are the kinds of things she's really heart forward
Speaker 1: about discussing with her audience. She really welcomes folks in
Speaker 1: to talk about everything from insecurity to body dysmorphia to depression.
Speaker 1: And I really think she is doing such an incredible
Speaker 1: service to the world with the conversations that she chooses
Speaker 1: to have and the tenderness with which she chooses to
Speaker 1: have them. And I'm really excited for all of you
Speaker 1: to hear today's conversation because that tenderness carries through this
Speaker 1: episode as well.
Speaker 2: Enjoy.
Speaker 3: Well.
Speaker 1: First of all, it was so much fun to get
Speaker 1: to see you last.
Speaker 3: Week of this. I just loved that me too.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I've admired your work and the way that you
Speaker 1: use your platform and the things that you choose to
Speaker 1: talk about for such a long time, so I'm thrilled
Speaker 1: you're here too.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, I was really happy. I days of events,
Speaker 3: I kind of am always going why did I say
Speaker 3: yes to this?
Speaker 1: All day long?
Speaker 3: Because I just I just have the social anxiety, so
Speaker 3: I have to push, really push myself to leave my
Speaker 3: house and go to those things. But yeah, but I'm
Speaker 3: always I'm always usually happy that I do, and then
Speaker 3: I'm there, so I always walk away. I'm like, okay,
Speaker 3: it was like the fear of going was much worse
Speaker 3: than the actual thing.
Speaker 1: Yeah, the anticipatory anxiety is often worse for me than
Speaker 1: the experiential anxiety. But it doesn't mean I don't have it.
Speaker 1: I can try to talk myself out of it the
Speaker 1: whole time, but yeah, it doesn't leave my body till
Speaker 1: I get to the thing and I run into people
Speaker 1: that I've been excited to meet or I see friends,
Speaker 1: and then I'm like, what was I so freaked? Out.
Speaker 3: Wow. Yeah, it's thee I mean, there is like because
Speaker 3: it's not just go to a party. It's like you're
Speaker 3: hiring people and you're having to look good and like
Speaker 3: get the freaking glam photo and make sure you are
Speaker 3: in a social mood or whatever. And I don't know,
Speaker 3: it's just it's not like going to a regular party.
Speaker 3: There's just like it feels like work to me. Yeah,
Speaker 3: so it's like, ultimately I'm going to work in a way.
Speaker 1: Totally, it is absolutely work. And I also giggled because
Speaker 1: I'd had to go to something.
Speaker 3: Before and.
Speaker 1: The thing I went to earlier to see some friends.
Speaker 1: As I was leaving, I got caught in like one
Speaker 1: of those moments of just la rain. So by the
Speaker 1: time I got back across town to see all of
Speaker 1: you guys, i'd gotten wet, I was in velvet. I
Speaker 1: had like a cool hairtuk moment happening. Yeah, And then
Speaker 1: by the the time I got to our event, I
Speaker 1: looked at the photos and I was like cool, I
Speaker 1: just looked like I gently electrocuted myself.
Speaker 3: Oh.
Speaker 1: It was like this moment where I was like, you
Speaker 1: kind of just gotta let it go. Like I don't know, no, one.
Speaker 3: No one would have ever known.
Speaker 1: You're very sweet. But it was like this very funny
Speaker 1: moment where I was like, am I gonna let the
Speaker 1: fact that like I'm a Frisbell now make me go home?
Speaker 1: Or am I just going to go see my pals?
Speaker 1: And I was very bad that I came.
Speaker 3: To see every You looked so lovely and there was
Speaker 3: no one would have ever see, No one ever would know,
Speaker 3: I never know, No one knows, right. I had to
Speaker 3: have be like safety pinned, like the I did a
Speaker 3: beauty con in November and the tailor accidentally took the
Speaker 3: buttons off my sleeves, so we had to like safety
Speaker 3: pin them, and who gives a shit? That's yeah, you know,
Speaker 3: it's like a little bit like, oh this sucks, and
Speaker 3: you're rushing out the door while it's happening and like
Speaker 3: safety pitting things. But I've had some red carpet moments
Speaker 3: like that a few times, and that always is it
Speaker 3: doesn't help the anxiety.
Speaker 1: My best friend in college split her pants at a party.
Speaker 1: We were really we were having a great night. It
Speaker 1: turned into like a dance off moment. Everything was great,
Speaker 1: and then she forgot how inflexible. Said pair of pants
Speaker 1: was and split them, and I happened to have safety
Speaker 1: pins in my bag because I was coming to this
Speaker 1: thing from class, And ever since, I've always made sure
Speaker 1: to carry a couple of safety pins in a clutch
Speaker 1: when I go out to something, just in case it
Speaker 1: happens to someone else. Yeah, Oh, I feel you on
Speaker 1: the safety pinage there.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I've definitely had an entire dress fully break, like
Speaker 3: and it's like, what I mean some of these things,
Speaker 3: I just I'm like, I got to give this over
Speaker 3: to did God here, Like there's really nothing I can
Speaker 3: do in this moment at the end of the day.
Speaker 3: It's like a red carpet that no one but me
Speaker 3: will like ever really remember totally. So yeah, stuff like
Speaker 3: that where I'm like, actually, no one but me is
Speaker 3: actually fully paying attention to like me in this moment,
Speaker 3: If that makes sense. Maybe that's a stupid thing to
Speaker 3: say when you have like fans who actually are very
Speaker 3: much paying attention. But I guess I'm like, I'm going
Speaker 3: to hold on to the things that go wrong and
Speaker 3: no one else is going to really notice them exactly.
Speaker 3: And if I look back, if I look bad on
Speaker 3: a carpet, the only person that that's hurting is ultimately
Speaker 3: and so.
Speaker 1: One's really going to care. Yeah, but it doesn't lessen
Speaker 1: the experience. But I'm so I love that we get
Speaker 1: to talk about these things, honestly, because I feel like
Speaker 1: when I started working in TV, nobody wanted to talk
Speaker 1: about anxiety. Everyone was like, you're so privileged, how dare
Speaker 1: you talk about stress or whatever? And it's like, I
Speaker 1: actually think it's quite refreshing to know that everyone is human.
Speaker 1: I'm really curious for you. I normally dive in with
Speaker 1: this question, but we we started in the present. I
Speaker 1: want to know a little bit about your childhood because
Speaker 1: I think it's really interesting to sit down with people
Speaker 1: who our audiences know generally from a body of work.
Speaker 1: And I want to know if if your version of
Speaker 1: yourself today got to sit down with your eight or
Speaker 1: nine or ten year old self, would you see the
Speaker 1: through line from what she was really interested to what
Speaker 1: you do now? Did you always want to be a
Speaker 1: performer or did this sort of all come out of
Speaker 1: the ether?
Speaker 3: No, it was really I think in my bones, and
Speaker 3: I always think it was a little bit written in
Speaker 3: the stars because I never had really a backup plan
Speaker 3: and I never wanted one, and that's a bit hard
Speaker 3: to tell your family who's never No one in my
Speaker 3: family was in this field, and no one was arts
Speaker 3: and to pursue it from Bay Village, Ohio. It was
Speaker 3: just sort of a far off dream, seemingly so it
Speaker 3: was a big, big dream for kind of a small
Speaker 3: town and to have no connections. It was sort of like, Okay, sure,
Speaker 3: dream big. And I was never told not to. But
Speaker 3: I absolutely came into the world liking to entertain people
Speaker 3: and be funny and goofy around my family, and weirdly though,
Speaker 3: was shy and had social anxiety, like to the point
Speaker 3: where when I was very young didn't want to go
Speaker 3: to birthday parties. I didn't want to be I was
Speaker 3: nervous to be around I guess the other kids, but
Speaker 3: more so I think it was like nervousness to be
Speaker 3: away from my mother. It was very attached to her.
Speaker 3: But within my family and friends, I was always wanting
Speaker 3: to perform and be silly, and I grew up making
Speaker 3: videos on a camera for myself that I would show
Speaker 3: my family, forcing them to watch. You know, these probably
Speaker 3: not very entertaining videos, but discovering windows movie maker when
Speaker 3: I was thirteen or something and editing together my own
Speaker 3: little movies and adding music to them and making my
Speaker 3: sister do it with me, and every time my friends
Speaker 3: came over, we would be like, let's make it. It
Speaker 3: was like, let's make a video. And I think that
Speaker 3: seems to be quite common with a lot of you know, actors.
Speaker 3: I find did that as a kid, so that's it
Speaker 3: seems to be kind of a common thing. But there
Speaker 3: was definitely always that desire to perform and be creative.
Speaker 3: And yeah, I mean if I sat down with my
Speaker 3: little ten year old self, it would be it would
Speaker 3: be like, yeah, I'm still you. I'm still this kind
Speaker 3: of shy, and it's interesting. I've grown up and I'm
Speaker 3: not I don't love this, but like I've almost turned
Speaker 3: into instead of like shy, I fear that sometimes it
Speaker 3: can come off as more of like a Larry David
Speaker 3: version of myself, where it's a little bit like, uh,
Speaker 3: maybe I come off as a little cold because of
Speaker 3: how introverted I am, Whereas I feel when I was
Speaker 3: younger and I was introverted, it was like, oh, she's shy.
Speaker 3: Like it's very easy to point to a kid who's
Speaker 3: introverted and say, she's shy, and when you're older, especially
Speaker 3: even in high school, maybe I was projecting. But I
Speaker 3: think I maybe was seen as kind of a bitch
Speaker 3: because I was shy, and because I was an actor
Speaker 3: trying to be an actor in this small town. So
Speaker 3: it kind of gave the illusion of Oh, who does
Speaker 3: this girl think she is? And she's but I really
Speaker 3: like I would try to put myself out there, but
Speaker 3: ultimately I was. I felt shy, but when people gave
Speaker 3: me a chance, I would be excited and try to
Speaker 3: be warm. But ultimately I think as I've gotten older,
Speaker 3: I'm like, I've just soured with age, but I've just
Speaker 3: kind of I guess I can come off a little
Speaker 3: bit like a little Larry Larry David in me. I'm
Speaker 3: like a twenty eight year old Larry David. Woman.
Speaker 1: That's great.
Speaker 3: There's things to work on, for sure. I mean it's
Speaker 3: a little to hear. I was given that comparison the
Speaker 3: other day, and I was a bit like, oh is
Speaker 3: this this am? I like, I love him and I
Speaker 3: love kurby enthusiasm, but I'm like to be compared as
Speaker 3: a human being to like a grouchy old man. I
Speaker 3: don't know, but ultimately we'll grow from it and be like, Okay,
Speaker 3: so we've maybe got to like work on the warming
Speaker 3: up around around people seeming more warmth.
Speaker 1: I also think there's a really odd thing to a
Speaker 1: lot of fame so young. For sure, you know, I
Speaker 1: would imagine for you, you know, you got cast on Riverdale
Speaker 1: at nineteen, like.
Speaker 3: I was.
Speaker 1: I think i'd been twenty one for I don't know,
Speaker 1: fifteen days or something when I got to Wilmington to
Speaker 1: do One Tree Hill, Like your prefrontal cortex isn't done
Speaker 1: developing until you're twenty six. Like it's a lot, you know.
Speaker 1: I remember feeling like I could really prove that I
Speaker 1: was an adult. And looking back on it, especially with
Speaker 1: all of us girls going back to start rewatching the
Speaker 1: show together.
Speaker 3: That's fun.
Speaker 1: We're so shocked. We're like, we were children. We were babies.
Speaker 1: Who let us out of the house, who let us
Speaker 1: do this, who put us on a set, who told
Speaker 1: us to pretend we knew what we were doing so
Speaker 1: we wouldn't embarrass ourselves. We were children. We should have
Speaker 1: just been like, we have no idea what we're doing.
Speaker 3: And I'm sure there was no essence of media training back.
Speaker 1: Then oh no, I thought if someone asked you a question,
Speaker 1: you had to answer it.
Speaker 3: You were thrown to the wolves, and we like we
Speaker 3: all are because no one ever, no one ever gives
Speaker 3: you any sort of rule book, And when I think
Speaker 3: maybe they should, it would have been helpful to have
Speaker 3: like some basic outlines, but I guess you kind of
Speaker 3: you're almost like, let me look to my elders, and
Speaker 3: the people playing our parents on the show were happy
Speaker 3: to give advice and stuff like that, but you really
Speaker 3: are like trial by fire, yep, don't mess up.
Speaker 1: And now a word from our sponsors who make the
Speaker 1: show possible. What was that like for you? Like, when
Speaker 1: you think about that season of life, do you immediately
Speaker 1: think about what the audition process was like? Do you
Speaker 1: think about the kind of WHOA, what's happening moment when
Speaker 1: the show is this huge hit and suddenly you have
Speaker 1: all this on your shoulders? What kind of comes up there?
Speaker 3: It's like a big deep breath to think about in
Speaker 3: a way, wow, because it was seven years, and it
Speaker 3: was from nineteen to twenty six, and I'm twenty eight
Speaker 3: now and having time away from it, and I always
Speaker 3: knew doing it is so hard and being in It
Speaker 3: is really challenging to fully move and vacate your life
Speaker 3: that I'm trying to start for myself in la And
Speaker 3: I remember not even knowing that the show filmed in
Speaker 3: Vancouver until I was on the phone with my lawyer
Speaker 3: and he's saying, those shoots in Vancouver, and I din't
Speaker 3: was like, where is that? So it was a I
Speaker 3: don't think I'd ever even been through Canada, So it
Speaker 3: was it was just this pick yourself up out of
Speaker 3: this chapter of your life and PLoP you down here
Speaker 3: and figure it out. And it is kind of figured out.
Speaker 3: And I think people expect people are always shocked. They're like,
Speaker 3: where did you stay? Like where were they putting you up?
Speaker 3: And it's like, no, you relocate your life.
Speaker 1: Yeah, they don't put you up. They don't know. They
Speaker 1: don't pay for anything.
Speaker 3: They don't pay for anything. They'll give you a relocation
Speaker 3: fee and that lasts. Yeah, that's last.
Speaker 1: Day, and yeah that gets you your first plane ticket
Speaker 1: and maybe if you're lucky, you get to ship your car.
Speaker 3: I shipped my car to Washington and then I drove
Speaker 3: it over the border. But I also like at the time,
Speaker 3: I remember having to tell my publicist I was like,
Speaker 3: I actually can't afford you at all? Can we can you?
Speaker 3: Maybe you just can I pay you once I get paid.
Speaker 3: And it's sort of like this. It wasn't awkward for
Speaker 3: me to talk about money, but I didn't, you know.
Speaker 3: I was like, I've never made money like this before,
Speaker 3: and I don't have I don't know I had. Maybe
Speaker 3: I don't know how much money I had in my
Speaker 3: bank account. Not a lot, but I because I had
Speaker 3: been acting since I was twelve, but like not making money,
Speaker 3: so it was I don't have the means to be
Speaker 3: shilling out now thousands of dollars for a publisherally, and
Speaker 3: no one really tells you how to deal with that
Speaker 3: as well, when you're making money so young and given
Speaker 3: that responsibility, that was also trippy weird. It's a weird
Speaker 3: thing to move very quickly from struggling financially to being
Speaker 3: the most financially secure person around you. Yeah, it's a
Speaker 3: bit of a shift, I think, mentally for a young
Speaker 3: person in their twenties. And luckily I'm very responsible with money,
Speaker 3: but it is a weird shift. But I think it
Speaker 3: was more so for me kind of having to move
Speaker 3: my whole life to a different country, and yes it
Speaker 3: was Canada, so we're not moving somewhere crazy far away.
Speaker 3: It's a three hour flight to la but ultimately finding
Speaker 3: a new apartment, settling the life there. And then that
Speaker 3: extends to seven years and it is I look back
Speaker 3: really fondly, working with wonderful people that I love really
Speaker 3: dearly and will always hold such a I mean, you know,
Speaker 3: like you just had a special place in your heart
Speaker 3: for these people that you were on this journey with that.
Speaker 3: So few people understand what it's like to just be
Speaker 3: a part of a television show, and so I understand
Speaker 3: the privilege in that, like, wow, I'm so lucky I
Speaker 3: have that experience, because I think it's rare and it's
Speaker 3: wonderful to be on a show for seven years. It's
Speaker 3: like a blessing and and I look at it as
Speaker 3: such absolutely, and although it was hard and had its challenges,
Speaker 3: I really do see it as it's the reason why
Speaker 3: I'm sitting in my house and it's I'm you know,
Speaker 3: was able to then have a production company and do
Speaker 3: everything else that I did. It was a catalyst for
Speaker 3: my whole career, and so yeah, it absolutely changed my
Speaker 3: life and was the biggest pivotal moment in my career
Speaker 3: thus far.
Speaker 1: So totally yeah, And I think it can be all
Speaker 1: of those things. You know. It can be something you're
Speaker 1: so grateful for. It can be something that was incredibly trying.
Speaker 1: I think, you know, like my heart just swells hearing
Speaker 1: you talk, because I know what it is to love
Speaker 1: a group of people and also to be completely isolated
Speaker 1: and in some senses trapped with a group of people
Speaker 1: because you do. It's it's sort of like my girlfriend
Speaker 1: and I were talking about this the other day. She
Speaker 1: was in La visiting and we hadn't seen each other
Speaker 1: in a while. I just realized, I'm saying this. I
Speaker 1: mean one of my girlfriend's from my show, not like
Speaker 1: my girlfriend, like my romantic party. Must clarify for the audience.
Speaker 1: They're gonna be like, oh, is she talking about girlfriend? Yes,
Speaker 1: platonic girlfriend. And and you know, she was out from
Speaker 1: the East Coast and we were just talking about some
Speaker 1: things and I said, I said, I have this really
Speaker 1: crazy kind of visual. It's like when you see those
Speaker 1: videos of bald eagles plucking salmon up out of the
Speaker 1: river and it's so majestic, but it's like it's like
Speaker 1: eagles pluck you out of your life and then they
Speaker 1: just drop you in a nest and you're like, where
Speaker 1: am I? Where is water? What is this? And you
Speaker 1: know everyone's like, aren't you so excited? And you're like, yes,
Speaker 1: but also I think I'm terrified. Yeah, and it's so surreal,
Speaker 1: so I.
Speaker 3: Really And then add having a Twitter a having a
Speaker 3: Twitter into that equation, I really not And it's or
Speaker 3: any form of social media, and it's horrible. It's way
Speaker 3: way scarier just because no one. There's just no one
Speaker 3: to tell you that you're about to be hated on
Speaker 3: so hard just existing and what the fuck do you
Speaker 3: do with that?
Speaker 1: You know, it's it's a really weird thing because we
Speaker 1: didn't have that when our show first started. But what
Speaker 1: existed in the vacuum were the tabloids and they're still around,
Speaker 1: but they can't completely create a narrative of who you are,
Speaker 1: because you get to be who you are in whatever
Speaker 1: way you choose to. I'm social.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 1: One of the really interesting things for us was like, oh,
Speaker 1: we're all just going to be cast as these archetypes
Speaker 1: and then that's who you're going to want us to be,
Speaker 1: by the way, forever, not even when it doesn't really
Speaker 1: even get to change when we can have our own
Speaker 1: social media because you made so much money clickbaiting us
Speaker 1: as these people, yeah, for ten years before it existed,
Speaker 1: that you're desperate for more of it. And that's an
Speaker 1: interesting thing too, because, like Hillary always used to say that,
Speaker 1: she's like, dude, the behind the scenes drama on our
Speaker 1: show is so extra, like literally, I don't know how
Speaker 1: true this is for yours, but like everyone on our
Speaker 1: show dated everyone on our show, And she's like, thanks
Speaker 1: for taking the tabloid bullets for the rest of us, babe,
Speaker 1: And I'm like, yeah, then thanks.
Speaker 3: You and you yeah, yeah, I mean yeah now.
Speaker 1: Because it's like we're kids, and what are you going
Speaker 1: to do? It's like it's literally they put you back
Speaker 1: in high school.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 1: I would watch some of the things I would just
Speaker 1: see because we're all online about you guys and your world,
Speaker 1: and I was like, God, I love so much of
Speaker 1: what you're getting to do and the ways you're at
Speaker 1: least appeared, you know, these incredibly strong female friendships. And
Speaker 1: I would kind of see the desire for people to
Speaker 1: clickbait your lives. And I don't know if you want
Speaker 1: to talk about it or not, and you can absolutely
Speaker 1: say now and then we'll just cut it. But it's
Speaker 1: like when I saw just as the Internet surfaces things
Speaker 1: on your explore page like you and Cole falling in
Speaker 1: love as like young kids on a show, I was like,
Speaker 1: oh my god, I hope someone protects these babies because
Speaker 1: I've been through it and I don't know. It's in
Speaker 1: one way, I'm so excited you guys got to be
Speaker 1: yourselves in your own space and there wasn't a vacuum
Speaker 1: that people wanted to fill for you.
Speaker 3: But also.
Speaker 1: The fact that you can have your own identity online
Speaker 1: then opens you up to being one singular human. It's
Speaker 1: eving feedback from tens of millions of people a day
Speaker 1: and not normal and it's not sustainable. And I know
Speaker 1: it's hard for me, and like, you know, I don't
Speaker 1: know what am I fifteen years older than you or
Speaker 1: something like, I can't imagine how hard it is for you,
Speaker 1: how hard it was, so I don't know how did
Speaker 1: you make sense of it?
Speaker 3: Well? I also can't imagine living in a world where
Speaker 3: you are not in charge of your own public narrative
Speaker 3: at all. Like that, I mean, I can't We both
Speaker 3: can there's.
Speaker 1: It wasn't great.
Speaker 3: I can't imagine and to feel even that I have
Speaker 3: a platform of my own. That's even now I'm sort
Speaker 3: of sometimes you know, it still is. I think about
Speaker 3: social media a lot, especially lately, and I think I
Speaker 3: think it's really bad. Yeah, I think at the end
Speaker 3: of the day, I wish I could have been someone
Speaker 3: who just never had to have it, because I think
Speaker 3: ultimately it's caused a lot of stress and anxiety for me.
Speaker 3: On the flip side, when you're starting out in your career,
Speaker 3: this is how you build your career. These days, people
Speaker 3: need to see who you are. International fans need to
Speaker 3: be able to connect and follow you. But yeah, I
Speaker 3: mean suddenly you're subjected to not that you're not going
Speaker 3: to be anyways, because regardless of whether you have an
Speaker 3: account or not, people will comment on you forever. So
Speaker 3: it's like, either you have a social media or you don't,
Speaker 3: people are going to still talk about you. But to
Speaker 3: be with my own eyes, viewing like as an almost
Speaker 3: an audience member, what people have to say about you
Speaker 3: or your life or your relationship, or you what you're
Speaker 3: wearing on a carpet, it's just it really does what
Speaker 3: this idea that whoever you're seeing on the other end
Speaker 3: of social media is just this figure that's moving around
Speaker 3: and you're seeing, oh they're there now, Oh they're in
Speaker 3: New York. Now, oh they're in LA and they're doing
Speaker 3: this thing and they look beautiful, and now maybe they
Speaker 3: don't look so good, and now all these other things,
Speaker 3: and it really is I say, give about this the
Speaker 3: other night, like, no wonder we as a society, I feel,
Speaker 3: are dealing with such unhappiness right now and anxiety, Like
Speaker 3: the levels of anxiety in young people and depression and
Speaker 3: suicide rates are just out of control. And it's because
Speaker 3: we sit on our little black boxes that being an
Speaker 3: iPhone and look at this narrative that everyone is choosing
Speaker 3: to show the world. It's what narrative are you showing?
Speaker 3: You're obviously not going to show the bad parts. Yeah,
Speaker 3: and this is not revelatory. I'm not saying anything revelatory
Speaker 3: by any means, but it's I think it's a good
Speaker 3: reminder because I think when I set on my Instagram,
Speaker 3: I feel Instagram. I'm becoming very distant from Instagram because
Speaker 3: I feel that that is the most fake form of
Speaker 3: social media currently TikTok for me, I feel is more authentic.
Speaker 3: You see people telling real stories. It doesn't feel like
Speaker 3: they're trying to present a front. I feel they're genuinely
Speaker 3: people that I see or follow are presenting this is
Speaker 3: what's going on in my life, this is what sucks.
Speaker 3: And then you see camaraderie usually in the comments of
Speaker 3: people sharing stories and being there for each other and
Speaker 3: just being there's this openness about it. Whereas you go
Speaker 3: on this glossy Instagram and everyone, including myself, is you're
Speaker 3: writing this image and presenting the prettiest glam photos and
Speaker 3: this is me with all my friends, or you're just
Speaker 3: presenting the best you know.
Speaker 1: Oh well, and it's interesting because yes, absolutely, you're right,
Speaker 1: and it's so weird to My friend Kathleen said something
Speaker 1: the other day that I thought was really wise. She
Speaker 1: was like, here's my catch up, you know, photo carousel
Speaker 1: on Instagram. She goes to be clear, this is the
Speaker 1: highlight reel, but the low lights don't go on Instagram.
Speaker 1: They go to the group chat. Yeah, And I was like, yeah,
Speaker 1: because why would you want everybody's opinions on what you're
Speaker 1: struggling with. They're already so horrible to you on what's
Speaker 1: going well, you know, so it's very tricky this. It's
Speaker 1: a constant sort of question I have of what do
Speaker 1: I want to open up and what do I not?
Speaker 1: You know, there's so many things I don't share, and
Speaker 1: in a way, I think privacy is so important, but
Speaker 1: also when you don't share, there's that vacuum again, so
Speaker 1: it's like I don't know what it is. And I
Speaker 1: think that's why, to go back to what I was
Speaker 1: saying when we first got into the Zoom room together,
Speaker 1: I really appreciate what you choose to share with people
Speaker 1: and how intentional it seems you want to be about it,
Speaker 1: because in a lot of ways, that's something I've been
Speaker 1: trying to do for as long as I've been on
Speaker 1: the internet too, And I appreciate that, yes, you'll go
Speaker 1: to this beautiful event, but be like I was also
Speaker 1: actually really anxious, and last week I was talking about
Speaker 1: what it's like to deal with cystic acne or depression
Speaker 1: or like we aren't paper dolls where everything is perfect.
Speaker 1: We're actually these three dimensional humans and shit's complicated alas
Speaker 1: for everyone, and I like that you're willing to discuss it,
Speaker 1: particularly as a woman in your peer group, particularly as
Speaker 1: a person who did launch into success on a hit
Speaker 1: show during social media and not free and then having
Speaker 1: to figure out how to navigate it. I'm curious how
Speaker 1: you felt. Was it sort of obvious of course I'm
Speaker 1: going to talk about the real stuff, or were you
Speaker 1: ever nervous to say I actually am a person who
Speaker 1: suffers from depression and anxiety.
Speaker 3: Was that.
Speaker 1: Was that unnerving or did it feel important? Or maybe
Speaker 1: it was a little bit of both.
Speaker 3: I well, thank you for everything you said, but I
Speaker 3: don't actually ever really remember stopping and thinking, this is
Speaker 3: what I'm going to stand for, and you're almost you
Speaker 3: start kind of having weirdly those conversations when to me,
Speaker 3: my experience was like when you meet with when you
Speaker 3: meet with publicists, you start kind of talking about your
Speaker 3: image and you're sort of for the first time having
Speaker 3: to think about your image, like I had never had
Speaker 3: to think about it before. Obviously it's so and now
Speaker 3: it's like, who do you want? No one. I don't
Speaker 3: think anyone was directly asking me this, but the subtext
Speaker 3: was who would you like to be perceived as? Or
Speaker 3: what would you like to stand for? And I not
Speaker 3: in a bad way people want to know they were.
Speaker 3: They're like, let me help you with this narratives of Ultimately,
Speaker 3: that's literally a PR person, a publicist. It's public relations,
Speaker 3: and it's how you're relating to the public and how
Speaker 3: they're going to perceive you. And I think I didn't
Speaker 3: really have an answer to that. And I was also
Speaker 3: playing this very seemingly perfect I quite literally the girl
Speaker 3: next door and playing this girl with energy. I say
Speaker 3: that because I'm chronically fatigued all the time. Yeah.
Speaker 1: Yeah, seven years on a series will do that to you.
Speaker 3: Well yeah, but I think just to me, I've since
Speaker 3: I was so young, have dealt with anxiety and depression,
Speaker 3: and then as I got older, getting diagnosed with add
Speaker 3: and then PTSD and then OCD. It's like, I mean,
Speaker 3: the list goes on, and I think, I don't want
Speaker 3: to be someone who talks about this chapter of my
Speaker 3: life once it's over. I don't think that really helps people.
Speaker 3: And I think I'm in it now. I've talked about
Speaker 3: this stuff for a while now, so it's like I
Speaker 3: might as well keep helping if I can, and to
Speaker 3: be in the position that I'm in now where people
Speaker 3: may see, oh, look at this great success you've had,
Speaker 3: and I go, yes, But also, I'm going to be
Speaker 3: real with you, and I'm not going to come back
Speaker 3: and talk about how hard this chapter was once it's over,
Speaker 3: because first of all, what if it's never over, and
Speaker 3: what if I continue to struggle in the ways that
Speaker 3: I struggle mentally? Okay, So I don't want to just
Speaker 3: put my authenticity or openness about my life and my
Speaker 3: experiences on hold until I feel better. I just don't
Speaker 3: think that's helping anyone. And ultimately, if I'm going to
Speaker 3: I don't want to say suffer because that never feels
Speaker 3: like the right word. But struggle with challenges that millions
Speaker 3: of other people face, but I get the opportunity to
Speaker 3: do it in a more public sphere and maybe in
Speaker 3: a way that people really call, people really call into
Speaker 3: question how do you feel that way? And that was
Speaker 3: really difficult for me when I first was stepping into
Speaker 3: the spotlight and having people basically tell me that I
Speaker 3: didn't have a right to feel.
Speaker 1: And now a word from our sponsors, the idea that
Speaker 1: you are supposed to wait until you feel better and
Speaker 1: then reflect on your experience in a way suggests that
Speaker 1: you need fixing and you don't need fixing, or.
Speaker 3: That you need to be quiet until your problems are solved,
Speaker 3: or in the public eye that unless you have an
Speaker 3: answer to give people as to how you came out
Speaker 3: of it, best just keep your mouth shut. And I'm
Speaker 3: the type of person who thinks, well, to me, it's helpful.
Speaker 3: It's not fully helpful for me to see someone getting
Speaker 3: a golden globe and saying keep going, don't give up.
Speaker 3: I'm like, well, yeah, because you're receiving an award now,
Speaker 3: and it's like, but how did you feel when you
Speaker 3: had to convince yourself to keep going? And I think
Speaker 3: that's way more helpful to someone like me who I
Speaker 3: find it inspiring when people open up about their struggles
Speaker 3: as they're happening, and to be able to know, Wow,
Speaker 3: this person's like really reflecting on their life and being
Speaker 3: open with the challenges that they're facing now, not what
Speaker 3: they were facing, which is important, but ultimately I think
Speaker 3: it just helps you connect to this is a big word,
Speaker 3: but humanity better because you're saying I'm in it now,
Speaker 3: I'm struggling now, even if I don't have an answer
Speaker 3: to give you guys on what to do or how
Speaker 3: I'm going to get out of this just to let
Speaker 3: people know that I'm still struggling with XYZ. I think
Speaker 3: sometimes is enough to make people go, oh, okay, well
Speaker 3: maybe that makes me feel better to know that someone
Speaker 3: who I think maybe has all these things. And I
Speaker 3: would be happy if I had all these things, because ultimately,
Speaker 3: and this is the whole point is it's not what
Speaker 3: you have. The most successful person in the world, whoever
Speaker 3: you want to think of that what success looks like.
Speaker 3: I'm pretty one hundred percent positive that person struggles and
Speaker 3: whatever your idea of success is someone who has that struggles.
Speaker 3: So why do they struggle when they have the things?
Speaker 3: Because it's not about externally having things. It's I could
Speaker 3: get and I've realized this, I could get everything I'm
Speaker 3: looking for in my career because career is a big,
Speaker 3: hard stress thing for me, and I could say, Okay,
Speaker 3: I could get the thing that I'm for. But if
Speaker 3: I got if I got that thing tomorrow, I don't
Speaker 3: think I would be happy still, Like, I don't think
Speaker 3: it would just solve every problem because ultimately the issue
Speaker 3: is internally, yeah, what I'm going through. So giving someone
Speaker 3: an award, I'm just using awards as an example, because
Speaker 3: it's like the most clear view of here's success. I'm
Speaker 3: here around and it's a trophy. It's like a literal
Speaker 3: trophy of success, and I think a lot of people
Speaker 3: view that as success. So that's just sort of where
Speaker 3: I'm coming from. But I think, yeah, I guess my
Speaker 3: whole point is I need to deal with what's going
Speaker 3: on on the inside that's making me unable to be
Speaker 3: happy with the success that I have now, because ultimately,
Speaker 3: even if I do keep climbing this ladder and reaching
Speaker 3: more success, I won't be able. I'll still just want
Speaker 3: to keep climbing the ladder and wanting war. So when
Speaker 3: isn't enough and you have to be able to receive
Speaker 3: and receiving something is challenging because I feel, again it's
Speaker 3: like an external usually an external accolade or an achievement
Speaker 3: or something externally validating. But ultimately your insides have to
Speaker 3: match up with that frequency of validation. And if inside
Speaker 3: you're still going, oh I don't deserve this, or oh
Speaker 3: I can do better or whatever whatever, it's not going
Speaker 3: to land and you're not going to be able to
Speaker 3: accept it. And I want to be in a position
Speaker 3: where any amount of success could come my way and
Speaker 3: I can go, oh, I'm happy with this, and I
Speaker 3: can receive this because I'm resolute in my inner work.
Speaker 3: I guess I love that.
Speaker 1: I think it's really important, particularly as you said, in
Speaker 1: a career and in an ecosystem inclusive of the world
Speaker 1: of social media and the business of entertainment. It's so
Speaker 1: important to figure out how to like your life instead
Speaker 1: of be constantly worried about what you're not doing. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and it's not easy, but to get to to get
Speaker 1: to a point where you realize that that is part
Speaker 1: of the work. Yeah, I think enables you to begin
Speaker 1: to widen your periphery and have a healthier experience with
Speaker 1: your life in general.
Speaker 3: Well so yeah, So, like I'm saying this all now
Speaker 3: having not reached that point.
Speaker 4: Yeah, Oh I'm not either, by the way, So yeah,
Speaker 4: but I but that's important to yeah, to emphasize because
Speaker 4: I don't I don't have the answer, and I haven't
Speaker 4: and I'm working on it.
Speaker 3: You could say I'm a work in progress. Hey, hey,
Speaker 3: but ultimately I don't have the answer, and I think
Speaker 3: it's something that is a journey. They say life is
Speaker 3: a journey, and apparently it is because you're just constantly
Speaker 3: evolving as you should be. And I don't think this
Speaker 3: feeling that I'm striving for this sort of I guess
Speaker 3: you'd call it inner peace, or the ability to receive,
Speaker 3: or the ability to see my success as enough. I
Speaker 3: don't have that yet, and I am working on it,
Speaker 3: and I'm sure i'll be working on it until the
Speaker 3: day I don't. But at least if I can keep
Speaker 3: chipping away at it and keep climbing that ladder of
Speaker 3: achieving that feeling, that's what's important. I don't have to.
Speaker 3: You could tell me you'll never fully get there. I'll go, Okay,
Speaker 3: well that sucks, But at least I'll know that forever
Speaker 3: I will be trying to feel that piece with my self.
Speaker 1: And then you know that you're spending a certain amount
Speaker 1: of time practicing gratitude, being introspective, being willing to self interrogate.
Speaker 1: You're not just pac manning around the world. You're in
Speaker 1: the emotional kind of fiber of it, and that I
Speaker 1: think is a really noble pursuit, you know, for ourselves,
Speaker 1: but also for the kind of imprint you want to
Speaker 1: leave on the world around you.
Speaker 3: Well, to me, my thought is Isn't that the whole point?
Speaker 1: I think so, because I.
Speaker 3: Think the whole point and for me is this is
Speaker 3: a soul's journey, it's not our body's journey. And to me,
Speaker 3: I'm like, I'm on this lifetime to level up. I
Speaker 3: want to become more conscious and raise my consciousness and
Speaker 3: be aware and be someone that people can live up
Speaker 3: to as a mentor. And I want to be like
Speaker 3: the old wise grandmother. I want that, and I think
Speaker 3: so in order to achieve that, I've got to keep
Speaker 3: showing and I've got to keep doing this work and
Speaker 3: I plan on it, and to me, that's so much more.
Speaker 3: That's so much more of a successful life if I
Speaker 3: can focus on the internal things than anything external that
Speaker 3: is also temporary and fleeting and ultimately, whatever you believe,
Speaker 3: if you believe, and I still don't necessarily know what
Speaker 3: I believe, but if I think that my soul is
Speaker 3: going to continue on into another lifetime, that I'll have,
Speaker 3: like as I say, leveled up in a way, and
Speaker 3: I can enter this next life with a even higher
Speaker 3: consciousness and then even more And again I don't know,
Speaker 3: I'm still figuring out what I believe so far as
Speaker 3: reincarnation is a scary word, and I don't know if
Speaker 3: I like that word, but that's more so, I think
Speaker 3: I like the idea that your soul is kind of
Speaker 3: just on this forever journey, that even when you aren't
Speaker 3: here anymore, when your body isn't here, your consciousness keeps going.
Speaker 1: And I have a book for you. I'm gonna I'm
Speaker 1: going to send you a book.
Speaker 3: What is it? What is it?
Speaker 1: I'll offline you about it, but yeah, I've got to
Speaker 1: send it to you.
Speaker 3: I'm a big I'm a big self help book person's
Speaker 3: spirituality book person.
Speaker 1: What excites me about it is it's because when you
Speaker 1: said that, you know, the word feels scary, I'm like,
Speaker 1: I get it. It's why sometimes when the emotion feels
Speaker 1: big for me, I need to lean into the data
Speaker 1: or the science. And I think, you know, just some
Speaker 1: of the laws of physics, you know, energy ones created
Speaker 1: can never be destroyed, so I can lean on the
Speaker 1: scientific idea. And this book is a sort of merger
Speaker 1: of scientific research and spiritual theory, and it's I'm going
Speaker 1: to send it to you, and I'm excited about it.
Speaker 3: I love spirituality books and all that stuff, so I'm
Speaker 3: very inteh.
Speaker 1: I just love the I love learning about us and
Speaker 1: I it might seem like a weird left turn, but
Speaker 1: I'm thinking about it because of the way that you
Speaker 1: want to pursue meaning. And you've talked about mental health certainly,
Speaker 1: and you've also talked about the pressure that comes for women,
Speaker 1: but really all I think all young people because of
Speaker 1: social media and then the expectations, particularly that get put
Speaker 1: on us when we're on camera. You know, you've spoken
Speaker 1: about body dysmorphia, you've spoken about acne, and now you've
Speaker 1: found it a skincare line. And I actually feel, and
Speaker 1: I guess this is my question, it feels to me
Speaker 1: like you are figuring out a way not just to
Speaker 1: like do a beauty product, but to really lean into
Speaker 1: this space of personal identity and self acceptance that you
Speaker 1: struggle with. It feels to me like you thought you've
Speaker 1: thought to yourself, I really struggle with this, and I
Speaker 1: know so many other young women struggle with this, and
Speaker 1: other young people struggle with this, and maybe if I
Speaker 1: solve a problem for myself, I can help other people
Speaker 1: solve a problem for them.
Speaker 3: Pretty dead on, I think that analysis because because I
Speaker 3: when I'm struggling with something, and I think this is where,
Speaker 3: to be honest, the openness about my mental health started.
Speaker 3: Was when I'm struggling with something, I need to share
Speaker 3: that because then that's how I connect with people, and
Speaker 3: that's how I feel seen.
Speaker 1: Well, you feel less alone, right, yeah, of course.
Speaker 3: And I think ultimately when you're struggling, you just want
Speaker 3: to feel less alone. That's why we see a therapist
Speaker 3: to be like, tell me I'm not alone, and they're like,
Speaker 3: I see plenty of it. Yeah, it's like you're not
Speaker 3: alone ever. But I think I started sharing because I
Speaker 3: was struggling with acne and my body image and my
Speaker 3: depression and my anxiety, and and then I just was
Speaker 3: received a lot of encouragement when I did that, which
Speaker 3: is amazing and sort of encouraged me to just keep
Speaker 3: being this open book at least when it comes to
Speaker 3: these facets of my life. So I was just pretty
Speaker 3: I mean again, I also had people telling me you
Speaker 3: don't have a right to feel anxiety, which is the
Speaker 3: craziest thing I've ever heard, that I don't have. The
Speaker 3: body image thing was hard and telling, you know, people
Speaker 3: telling me I don't have a right to feel a
Speaker 3: certain way about my body because I look a certain way.
Speaker 3: It's it's I understand. But ultimately this is where advocting
Speaker 3: steps in. And you have no idea how someone looks
Speaker 3: at themselves. And I've seen, I'm sure you've seen some
Speaker 3: of the most beautiful people in the world have the
Speaker 3: biggest self esteem issues. Yes, And so ultimately you just
Speaker 3: have no idea what you think is an ideal beauty.
Speaker 3: Someone has that and they aren't happy with it. Yeah,
Speaker 3: And for acne in particular, I stepped into this space
Speaker 3: where you're not supposed to have that, and people around
Speaker 3: me didn't really have it. Of course, always like the
Speaker 3: guys always have overren skin and it's annoying. But the women,
Speaker 3: you know, we're dealing with hormonal acne and the way
Speaker 3: more makeup than all these things. Yeah. And I have
Speaker 3: had acne just since I was twelve and thirteen, and
Speaker 3: it was like manageable acne and then as I but
Speaker 3: even when I would get this reoccurring assist in the
Speaker 3: middle of my forehead, which is this bitch is back again.
Speaker 3: And I remember really hating that my school didn't let
Speaker 3: us wear hats because I thought to myself, if only
Speaker 3: could wear a beanie and pull this thing down over
Speaker 3: my forehead so no one would see this, or if
Speaker 3: we just turned these fluorescent, awful lights off, maybe no
Speaker 3: one would notice this crater on my forehead. And so
Speaker 3: I'm very familiar with the feeling of acne in everyday
Speaker 3: life and what it can do to you mentally. But
Speaker 3: then I've also experienced the exacerbated version when I'm literally
Speaker 3: in front of a camera with said acne on my
Speaker 3: face and people are literally staring at a screen watching me,
Speaker 3: and the paranoia around that, and I think I felt
Speaker 3: really called to because again, I'm like, everything kind of
Speaker 3: stems from me wanting to. It's not selfish by any means,
Speaker 3: but I'm like, ultimately, I'm trying to help myself still
Speaker 3: as well by helping other people so we can all
Speaker 3: collectively feel better because I want to feel better too.
Speaker 3: I still have acne, and I want these products that
Speaker 3: are not going to trigger my acne. So I know
Speaker 3: that people who have the same issues as I do
Speaker 3: want that as well. But also important to note that
Speaker 3: even people who don't have acne and don't deal with this,
Speaker 3: you want good quality skincare that's not irritating you. Causing
Speaker 3: any damage that maybe you're not superficially seeing. You want
Speaker 3: things that aren't stuffed with bad filler ingredients. You just
Speaker 3: that's also not going to be one hundred dollars. I
Speaker 3: just think I'm sure we get sent pr boxes of crap,
Speaker 3: and I in the beginning of my career was like, oh,
Speaker 3: hell yeah, I'm being sent skincare line after skincare line.
Speaker 3: I'm going to put this on my face and I
Speaker 3: absolutely destroyed my skin because I was just trying everything.
Speaker 3: And I think ultimately I wanted to create a line
Speaker 3: for anyone, but for with actbi prone and sensitive skin
Speaker 3: people in mind that they could trust, they could fully
Speaker 3: trust a skincare line that wasn't going to make things worse. Yes,
Speaker 3: and to be a safe haven, if you will, And
Speaker 3: to know that I can top to bottom go to
Speaker 3: this personal day line and know that if I purchase something,
Speaker 3: it's going to be free of these bad ingredients.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and now a word from our wonderful sponsors. I
Speaker 1: think people often forget we're so pressured to have our
Speaker 1: skin look a certain way that we forget that our
Speaker 1: skin is our body's largest organ. You know, would you
Speaker 1: be like dumping chemical agents on top of your liver
Speaker 1: all day. No, so you don't want to do it
Speaker 1: with your skin either, And I think it's I think
Speaker 1: it's very cool that you lasered in on an area
Speaker 1: of personal struggle, understood the larger struggle of that area
Speaker 1: for so many people, and then said I think I
Speaker 1: can help fix this and maybe do it more holistically
Speaker 1: and more kindly. And some of the other folks out
Speaker 1: there are doing it, and I think it's very very cool.
Speaker 3: Thank you. I think ultimately I I don't at the
Speaker 3: end of the day, this job, as much as people
Speaker 3: would like to tell me that I don't have a
Speaker 3: right to say, is stressful. Is incredibly stressful and hard.
Speaker 3: And unless you're in that position, you can't make that judgment.
Speaker 3: You just can't. And if I'm gonna be in a
Speaker 3: career that's very stressful. If I have the privilege and
Speaker 3: opportunity to help other people, absolutely, And I never ever
Speaker 3: wanted to put my face or name on something. My
Speaker 3: name isn't even on the brand that created intentionally because
Speaker 3: if people are saying, hey, do you want to create something,
Speaker 3: I'm going to go, okay, Well, it has to help people.
Speaker 3: And also I would love for people to not even
Speaker 3: know that I'm attached to it, because that's how effective
Speaker 3: the products need to be. Yes, because I can't would
Speaker 3: I mean, it would be very embarrassing to make promise
Speaker 3: that made people's skin worse or caused reactions. And it's
Speaker 3: been like every day I'm receiving a text message now
Speaker 3: because the line's been out since the end of October,
Speaker 3: people who have been using the line for a month now,
Speaker 3: who are texting me going, I'm getting complimented on my
Speaker 3: skin for the first time in my life, and that
Speaker 3: is I just think, Okay, that's why I'm doing this,
Speaker 3: because I not for truly any other reason than I
Speaker 3: also wanted this line of like safe skincare, but to
Speaker 3: help other people in the process. I that has been
Speaker 3: the most fulfilling. It really is like to receive a
Speaker 3: text message from people saying my skin is changing because
Speaker 3: of these products. I just know and deeply empathize with
Speaker 3: how bad a breakout I make you feel. And to
Speaker 3: feel that something is in the world now that people
Speaker 3: are it's positively impacting the way that they're viewing their
Speaker 3: face when they wake up in the morning is ultimately
Speaker 3: very very good for my so I think you feel
Speaker 3: very I feel very warm warm about it. I love that,
Speaker 3: which is like that's the goal. Yeah.
Speaker 1: Absolutely, it makes me think about and I don't even
Speaker 1: remember where I said it. I feel like you always
Speaker 1: have your best moment of brilliance when you're not paying
Speaker 1: attention to yourself. And at some point I was talking
Speaker 1: about advice I wanted to give to my younger self,
Speaker 1: and I said that I wanted to say to her,
Speaker 1: you are allowed to be a masterpiece and a work
Speaker 1: in progress simultaneously. And I think what you're talking about
Speaker 1: is exactly that kind of energy where you are trying
Speaker 1: to be your best self and also make room for
Speaker 1: the process of being a human. At the same time,
Speaker 1: you want to have gratitude for everything you've done and
Speaker 1: still have goals. You want to be able to relish
Speaker 1: in where you are today and still dream about your future.
Speaker 1: You know, it's the tension of the both, and I
Speaker 1: think when you lean into it and choose to be
Speaker 1: introspective can be so beautiful.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and it takes the pressure off, I think, to
Speaker 3: remind yourself that you are an ever evolving person and yes,
Speaker 3: you've got you've got time to grow and to change
Speaker 3: you've got I mean hopefully, but I hope so metaphorically
Speaker 3: even you've got, you've got time and space to do it.
Speaker 3: And you don't need to be the best version of
Speaker 3: yourself by the time you're thirty or by the time
Speaker 3: you're whatever. I just think to remind it's a gentle
Speaker 3: We all need that gentle reminder of you are really
Speaker 3: that ever evolving thing, and that's what life is literally about.
Speaker 3: So stop trying to stop trying to meet the deadline.
Speaker 3: There is no deadline of that. It's the whole life's journey.
Speaker 1: When you think about that sort of ethos, Is there
Speaker 1: something and it can be professional or personal, or maybe
Speaker 1: it's a mix of both. Is there something as you
Speaker 1: look ahead at the new year that's about to start
Speaker 1: that really feels like your work in progress right now?
Speaker 3: I think lately it's giving myself grace and giving others
Speaker 3: grace and kind of understanding what that actually means. But
Speaker 3: to me, I think it's the big one for me
Speaker 3: has been comparison is the thief of joy, yes, and
Speaker 3: again that's the social media of it all. Does not help,
Speaker 3: but to be happy for others when they get their flowers,
Speaker 3: which is a phrase that I really like, and knowing
Speaker 3: that there's space for everyone to have that. And I
Speaker 3: think we're just in this industry that hammers into this
Speaker 3: competition and if you're not at this certain peak of
Speaker 3: your success by this certain time, that you've missed the
Speaker 3: boat or that. I think that something that a lot
Speaker 3: of people can relate to is obviously you're watching everyone's
Speaker 3: lives on social media, and so you're comparing yourself to
Speaker 3: people who have what you want, and if you're not
Speaker 3: seeing yourself getting it anytime soon, or if you feel that, oh,
Speaker 3: that's so far away from me, or I'll never achieve that,
Speaker 3: I think the comparison if you took away if you
Speaker 3: sat with yourself and took away everybody else's success and
Speaker 3: sat with your own and were able to focus on
Speaker 3: how far you've come and what you've achieved without measuring
Speaker 3: it against other people, yes, I think your satisfaction would
Speaker 3: be exponentially higher. And so giving myself grace because I
Speaker 3: know that I'm literally living in a way world that
Speaker 3: tells me to compare myself to every person that I see.
Speaker 1: All the time, and it's horrible.
Speaker 3: Yes, Like it's like, just remind yourself of that. That's
Speaker 3: kind of what that's just what you need give you,
Speaker 3: give yourself the grace of knowing that that is the
Speaker 3: world that you're in. And so it's understandable that you
Speaker 3: feel these things. And I think I've had to just
Speaker 3: give myself a break and saying yeah, like we get it, Yeah,
Speaker 3: I get it. I can look at my problems and go, yeah,
Speaker 3: it makes sense why I feel that way, and then
Speaker 3: going okay, well, let's try to eliminate then the factors
Speaker 3: of maybe let's be on social media less. Maybe let's
Speaker 3: remind ourselves of this phrase, like everyone has room to
Speaker 3: have their flowers, Let people have that, Let people have
Speaker 3: their thing, and don't be angry or jealous or covet
Speaker 3: what other people have. No one is taking away what
Speaker 3: you could have by getting by getting what they have.
Speaker 3: No one's taking anything away from you. Exactly. There's room
Speaker 3: for all of us. It's a big planet, it's a
Speaker 3: big world. Yep, there's room for us all. And I
Speaker 3: think that, to me is a big thing. That's in
Speaker 3: the last half of this year I've been landing on
Speaker 3: and so I will be carrying that with me into
Speaker 3: twenty twenty five.
Speaker 1: I love that I think that's really wonderful.
Speaker 3: Thanks, we'll see.
Speaker 1: I also, I kind of think that this making space
Speaker 1: for that truth and realizing that the narrative that there
Speaker 1: isn't enough, the idea that scarcity is somehow our destiny
Speaker 1: as humans. I just think that's one of those lies
Speaker 1: the patriarchy tells us. So when we are trying to
Speaker 1: create a more holistic human experience and lean particularly think
Speaker 1: into generational wisdom, the generational wisdom of women, it's like, oh,
Speaker 1: we're not we're not doing the scarcity thing that those
Speaker 1: guys in power told us.
Speaker 3: Well, it's the phrase you're too much as a woman.
Speaker 1: No, ma'am, And we're not doing that.
Speaker 3: That doesn't exist, and that's not bad.
Speaker 1: It's someone years ago, when I was we were into
Speaker 1: the sort of real throes of our of our first
Speaker 1: big show, said to me, you need to take any
Speaker 1: person who's ever said to you you're intimidating, say no,
Speaker 1: you're just intimidated. And I was like, oh, it makes
Speaker 1: me feel so strong and powerful. So it's all all
Speaker 1: those lessons I think that we can glean and you know,
Speaker 1: take with us as we start figuring out how to
Speaker 1: be these more human, more empathetic people are.
Speaker 3: That's a great thing. Whoever said that to you.
Speaker 1: Right, it was really good and I was like, oh,
Speaker 1: tattoo it on my soul.
Speaker 3: It's a perspective. It's just a perspective shift, like there's
Speaker 3: nothing wrong with you. Maybe it's how the other person
Speaker 3: is perceiving you that's wrong. Maybe maybe that may do that.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, well, thank you so much for joining me today.
Speaker 1: You're just a jem.
Speaker 3: Thank you, well, so are you. And I appreciate you
Speaker 3: offering up a space in which people can feel safe
Speaker 3: to talk about the things that are not easy. And
Speaker 3: I think it's rare that people cultivate a space that
Speaker 3: feels really safe and warm, and you do that really
Speaker 3: so well and I and I appreciate that because sometimes
Speaker 3: I walk away from podcasts thinking, oh, this is gonna
Speaker 3: hurt me in some way, like this is gonna maybe backfire.
Speaker 3: It's gonna maybe backfire. But I just think definitely not
Speaker 3: the case here.
Speaker 1: So thank you. Yeah, to get to conversationally break bread
Speaker 1: with people is a supreme privilege.
Speaker 3: Uh, thanks for you doing you do it well. Yeah,
Speaker 3: thank you for having me