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Speaker 1: This is the me Eat podcast coming at you shirtless,

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Speaker 1: severely bug bitten, and in my case, underwear listening podcast.

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Speaker 1: You can't predict anything. Okay, Mitch Petriet, I want to

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Speaker 1: return something we were talking about before we turn the machine.

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Speaker 1: Un Um, did you say that muskie fishing in Minnesota

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Speaker 1: is called the fish of a ten thousand casts? Not?

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Speaker 1: But oh not, just maybe you're confusing that with the

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Speaker 1: state ten thousand lakes. Yeah, it's just a number that

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Speaker 1: was stuck in someone's head. Right now. They said the

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Speaker 1: fish of ten thousand casts. Its just a known thing. Yeah. Um,

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Speaker 1: but the way we do it, it's not the fish

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Speaker 1: of ten thousand cast. The fish I would tell you

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Speaker 1: it's evolved over the last five years. The lake will

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Speaker 1: fish on has zebra muscles and a lot of milfoil,

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Speaker 1: so the water clarity has really improved, and the muskies

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Speaker 1: have moved a little deeper. Five years ago, there's hazards

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Speaker 1: all over the lake, and um, the fish will there's

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Speaker 1: always fish at these hazards, not always the same fish,

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Speaker 1: But the structure is so perfect. We could just go

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Speaker 1: and you would have a musky encounter almost guaranteed. You

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Speaker 1: don't want to say the name of the lake. It's

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Speaker 1: not a secret. There's no secrets in It's Lake Minnetonka

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Speaker 1: and its old secrets musk fish. No, it's uh which

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Speaker 1: is funny because you'll see guys out there that you'll

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Speaker 1: they'll post photos and they'll delete the back the backdrop,

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Speaker 1: so people don't know where they are. But it's like, well,

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Speaker 1: you can figure out where they are for the most part.

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Speaker 1: But no, it's it's a great musky lake and it's

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Speaker 1: under a fair amount. There's a lot of pressure, but

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Speaker 1: there's a lot of fish. I think the DNR estimates

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Speaker 1: there's a thousand trophy muskies in Lake Minnetonka. What makes

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Speaker 1: a trophy must that's what we're going for tonight. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: right now are they're all kinds of northerns mixed in

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Speaker 1: with these muskies. There are northerns and bass. This is

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Speaker 1: the lake. It's it's amazing lake and it's twenty five

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Speaker 1: minutes from downtown Minneapolis. Hence the pressure. Yeah. Yeah, um,

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Speaker 1: in your life that how many muskies have you caught?

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Speaker 1: I've only been doing it for counter cast on the

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Speaker 1: golf clicker. I haven't click was really high, Yeah, I haven't,

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Speaker 1: but uh, I had. I had a young young guy

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Speaker 1: who worked for me was a musky guru, and he

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Speaker 1: got me into it. My boss at the time a

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Speaker 1: guy named Ron Chera, who was a local writer. He

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Speaker 1: wrote the outdoor Beat for the Minneapolis Star Tribune for

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Speaker 1: forty years. His advice to me when he heard that

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Speaker 1: I was getting into muskie fishing was to take all

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Speaker 1: my musky gear and destroy it before it ruins my marriage,

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Speaker 1: because that's kind of what muskie fishing does, and it

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Speaker 1: sucks because you can't catch them. You can't can't master it. Right.

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Speaker 1: My maternal grandfather was a very avid musky fisherman. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: he would fish northern Wisconsin. Yeah, it's that's a that's

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Speaker 1: a great place for as well. That's probably he was

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Speaker 1: a live bait mousky fisherman. Is I think probably most

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Speaker 1: people were back then, right For we we use live

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Speaker 1: baits here in the fall, so as the season goes on,

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Speaker 1: the muskies start eating bigger, bigger baits and then in

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Speaker 1: the fall they'll we do u we slow troll suckers,

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Speaker 1: live suckers like suckers. WHOA, it's pretty cool because it's

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Speaker 1: like fishing hell of it. Yeah, and you're just sitting

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Speaker 1: and you're you're watching. You watch the tip of your rod.

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Speaker 1: It will start bobbing and then you go. You feed it,

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Speaker 1: line and the Because the muskie, once they get it

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Speaker 1: into their mouth, it's not like a trout or something.

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Speaker 1: If they feel it doesn't feel right, they spit it

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Speaker 1: out right away. That once they taste that meat in

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Speaker 1: their mouth, it's on my bucket list. I haven't done it, um,

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Speaker 1: but I've I've seen it on the YouTube. Um. Muskies

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Speaker 1: will take the sucker and won't have the hooks in

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Speaker 1: their mouth, but guys will. You'll boat the fish and

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Speaker 1: they're just holding onto the live sucker. They don't even

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Speaker 1: have a hook in their mouth, but they're not. They

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Speaker 1: won't let go of it. So Yeah, because they got

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Speaker 1: the like a northern, they got those back angle, they

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Speaker 1: got the teeth that locked. It's kind of when they

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Speaker 1: grab something, man, it's like it's gonna rip when you

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Speaker 1: pull it out. Yeah, it's not like that's not a

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Speaker 1: two way street. No, you heard that same thing about

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Speaker 1: the link cod right couples. You hear all. I haven't

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Speaker 1: seen it happen, but anyone that spends a ton of

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Speaker 1: time fishing them talks about catching them that aren't hooked,

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Speaker 1: and then people are always catching them on catching link

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Speaker 1: cod latched down to another link, cod latched onto a rock,

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Speaker 1: fish latched onto a pink sam. He just comes up

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Speaker 1: in the boat. We do a lot of fishing in

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Speaker 1: northern Minnesota and walleye fishing, and a lot of stories

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Speaker 1: of northern pike smacking of walleye as you're as you're

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Speaker 1: bringing it in the same dale, they'll they'll hold onto

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Speaker 1: that pretty good too. I have brought in northerns that

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Speaker 1: we're on something else not hooked, And in fact, uh,

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Speaker 1: not too long ago, I'm a little boy caught a

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Speaker 1: large mouth on a bluegill and got it up in

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Speaker 1: the boat into a pontoon boat. Yeah, and that thing

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Speaker 1: wasn't hooked. It's fine, just holding on. I've had been

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Speaker 1: bass fishing with little plastic worms and I've had sunfish

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Speaker 1: holding onto the worm not hooked, come into the boat.

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Speaker 1: That Yeah, he's ready for a big fight. Yeah. Uh,

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Speaker 1: not here to talk about not here at all to

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Speaker 1: talk about muskies. But lifelong Minnesota, Yes, sir, born and raised,

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Speaker 1: born and raised UM Minnesota's UM just from where my

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Speaker 1: family is. I've lived overseas, but I always came back here,

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Speaker 1: and um, I told my boss, Minnesota is a hard

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Speaker 1: place to recruit people to to come live here because

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Speaker 1: probably the winters, but it's a hard place to recruit

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Speaker 1: from as well. I think, you know, we have we

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Speaker 1: have four seasons. Summers are relatively short, but you know,

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Speaker 1: you get a good spring and a good fall, and um, yeah,

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Speaker 1: there's over ten thousand lakes, which I thought was a

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Speaker 1: pretty big deal until I went to Saskatchewan and there's

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Speaker 1: like a hundred thousand up there. But we have a

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Speaker 1: very very good you know, it's a little bit you know,

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Speaker 1: I do a lot of work in Colorado and the

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Speaker 1: in out west, great outdoor lifestyle. Minnesota has a little

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Speaker 1: bit of that. Just no mountains, but a lot of lakes,

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Speaker 1: a lot of water, a lot of water also, uh

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Speaker 1: real quick. Also joined by Ryan Callahan, who's in You're

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Speaker 1: you're just coming from the outdoor reelers. Retailers, reelers retailers

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Speaker 1: yea yeah, outdoor retailer. Yeah. Um also in Denver, pretty

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Speaker 1: good time. Fish out of water. No, no, not at all.

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Speaker 1: It's not a super hunting crowd over there, you know,

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Speaker 1: oddly enough, so I wouldn't. Uh. It was invited to

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Speaker 1: kind of talk about hunting on a on a public

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Speaker 1: panel at the Winter session, UM with folks from ari

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Speaker 1: I Patagonia. UM, you know, this big public forum and

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Speaker 1: it was kind of intimidating. But after we got done

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Speaker 1: with that panel, I can't tell you how many people

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Speaker 1: came up and they're like, man, that was great, and uh,

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Speaker 1: you know, just so you know, I'm a hunter too.

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Speaker 1: And then and I like, yeah, it was, yes, it

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Speaker 1: was um. And then and I really like this trade

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Speaker 1: show because because it's not hunting specific, I can just

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Speaker 1: kind of lurk around and actually check things out. And

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Speaker 1: and um, you know, a hunting community so small, you're

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Speaker 1: always running into people, you know, constantly, you can't ever

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Speaker 1: get anything done, so um, but you can just enjoy

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Speaker 1: your anonymity and look at product. Yeah, but this I

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Speaker 1: got stopped a ton um, a lot of meat eater fans,

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Speaker 1: lots of folks that listen to the podcasts, lots of it.

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Speaker 1: Seems like Old Dirt Myth was was there as well. Um,

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Speaker 1: and we checked out a couple of you know, different

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Speaker 1: companies for you know, the stuff that we use all

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Speaker 1: the time, um, sleeping bags, and pads and boots and

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Speaker 1: and every stop somebody in the booth would like break

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Speaker 1: away from the conversation they were having, come over and

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Speaker 1: be like, hey, you can thank you guys so much

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Speaker 1: what you're doing. Like love the show. Yeah, And this

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Speaker 1: is the one that pulled This is the um, this

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Speaker 1: is what we're here to talk about either. But just

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Speaker 1: real quick, outdoor you tailors is the one that in

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Speaker 1: protest of public lands issues out of Utah. Like it's

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Speaker 1: outdoor Retailers that pulled out and went to Denver. Right. Yes,

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Speaker 1: it had traditionally been in Salt Lake City. Yeah, it's

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Speaker 1: been in Salt Lake for a long time. Um and

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Speaker 1: uh yeah. And and in an effort to swig Governor

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Speaker 1: Herbert at the time on a lot of their beliefs

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Speaker 1: on monuments, specifically the rescinding a bears ears in grand

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Speaker 1: staircases galante um, they were leveraging with this giant check,

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Speaker 1: this huge revenue stream that would come into Salt Lake City.

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Speaker 1: Have you ever been to the Salt Palace in Salt

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Speaker 1: Lake City? Yeah, most of those hotels and stuff down

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Speaker 1: there didn't exist prior to that show. And so they said, well,

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Speaker 1: we're gonna pull out if you guys support this and

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Speaker 1: then they actually did it, and they actually did it, yeah,

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Speaker 1: which you know, it's there's a real strong argument there

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Speaker 1: that if you want to make some change, you gotta

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Speaker 1: stick around, not take your ball and go home too. So, um,

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Speaker 1: it's not as pre usual, it's not a cutting dry situation.

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Speaker 1: I heard on the some feedback because I was in

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Speaker 1: Denver yesterday as well that um, maybe last ye or

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Speaker 1: two years ago there was like no camel at outdoor retailer,

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Speaker 1: and this year it seems like I heard every booth

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Speaker 1: a lot of products. I think otter Box has had

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Speaker 1: a big presence there this year. A lot of camouflage

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Speaker 1: at outdoor retailer, like cool kids snowboarding type squiggly lion

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Speaker 1: camo like I like because it's like part of the

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Speaker 1: snowboarding kind of came out of the snowboarding scene, or

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Speaker 1: like camel like for like hiding from stuff winter or um,

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Speaker 1: you know your ski brands sure enough that you know

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Speaker 1: camo is is hip, you know, but it's so it's

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Speaker 1: not stuff that you would see traditionally in the hunting

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Speaker 1: space for the most part. Um, but summer are there's

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Speaker 1: definitely like a little bit more. You know, a lot

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Speaker 1: of people don't realize it, but these outdoor Research Patagon

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Speaker 1: ya um, lots of these big brands also do military business.

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Speaker 1: And you know that if if you're looking, you can

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Speaker 1: see some of that stuff sitting on on the displays

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Speaker 1: as well. So yeah, ARC, Tereks, Ore, Padagon, you all

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Speaker 1: do military contractors. Yes, well yeah, and that stuff goes

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Speaker 1: the real That stuff goals that the dudes were kicking

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Speaker 1: down doors and places. Man. Yeah, no, I mean this

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Speaker 1: isn't stuff that the general armies buying for everybody. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: how about did you see any fishing camel? Because I

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Speaker 1: came off of I cast a few weeks ago and

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Speaker 1: now everything there's a lot of fishing camel patterns, and

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Speaker 1: that has a it's a life. You don't need camel.

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Speaker 1: We we won't be wearing cameo tonight when or at

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Speaker 1: least not fishing camel when we fish. But I end

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Speaker 1: up wearing a decent amount of camera when I'm fishing,

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Speaker 1: just because I don't like having your you're accidentally cool Yeah,

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Speaker 1: uh no, But that we saw a lot of fishing

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Speaker 1: um cameos like blue, like lots of light blues and white.

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Speaker 1: Some of it looks like water stuff and camels have

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Speaker 1: some camel stuff. I have an llttle bean shirt that

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Speaker 1: has a of a cool I might wear tonight. Actually,

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Speaker 1: I just got an email from a dude. Uh, I

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Speaker 1: need to read it more carefully, but this guy was

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Speaker 1: kind of saying that he had He said, Yeah, I

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Speaker 1: don't wear a camera anymore because it's uh politically too divisive.

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Speaker 1: M we're thinking, like I feel like right now that's

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Speaker 1: not the case. No, And there's a lot of cool

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Speaker 1: kid camea a lot of skinny Jean Cama like um

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Speaker 1: and also Janie Poodless. You hone got an email there

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Speaker 1: to day from a guy who said his wife's name

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Speaker 1: is Janice, but she smells at j A N I

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Speaker 1: c E. And I need to write him back and

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Speaker 1: clarify that it's in fact be honest. Please do that.

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Speaker 1: I will missed miss peech. You tell uh tell him

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Speaker 1: what you do for a living. I'm a vice president

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Speaker 1: programming for the Outdoor Sportsman Group networks, which are Outdoor Channel,

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Speaker 1: Sportsman's Channel, and the World Fishing Network. So if you've

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Speaker 1: got a question about what what in the world is

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Speaker 1: the world aboutdoor TV? This is the man it's fair

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Speaker 1: to say you know more about it than maybe anyone

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Speaker 1: at this particular moment. Let's say I wouldn't say I

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Speaker 1: know more than anyone, but I have a pretty unique

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Speaker 1: perspective on what I know based on all the interactions

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Speaker 1: that I have. I was a producer for ten years

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Speaker 1: before I joined the network, like produced the TV show,

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Speaker 1: produced TV shows. I did Wardens in Montana. That was

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Speaker 1: one of the my first breakout hits that got me

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Speaker 1: on the radar of the network at least. UM Wardens

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Speaker 1: gets talked about every time I go home because we're

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Speaker 1: always right around the Sun River game range. And there's

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Speaker 1: that episode with the shed antler and like the radio

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Speaker 1: that radio they put little radio controllers and the antlers

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Speaker 1: so they can track down. We got some pretty cool

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Speaker 1: stories and we told a lot of them on Warden,

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Speaker 1: and so we did that for six years in Montana.

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Speaker 1: What channel was that on? That wasn't on channel it was? Yeah,

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Speaker 1: it still is. In fact, we've actually moved it from

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Speaker 1: Montana to Michigan. UM, so it's still going strong. I

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Speaker 1: think we've had probably a hundred and fifty episodes. Are

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Speaker 1: you involved with it? Yeah, I'm still still I think

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Speaker 1: officially as still the executive producer UM. I started it

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Speaker 1: with UH with a former partner guy named Steve Puppy

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Speaker 1: who got me into television back in the day. He

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Speaker 1: was former Hunter Specialties UM Road Warriors, so he had

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Speaker 1: an HS truck and would go and do UM work

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Speaker 1: trade shows and work different retails with different retailers and

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Speaker 1: especially the game calls. Yeah, and then he did a

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Speaker 1: DVD which was probably a VHS at the time. So

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Speaker 1: you want to be a bow hunter or so you

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Speaker 1: want to be a turkey hunter? And he was I

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Speaker 1: think it was national. He was Minnesota state champion turkey call.

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Speaker 1: You know. He he started his own TV show, and

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Speaker 1: my wife and I got involved with that, and that's

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Speaker 1: how I got dabbling in too, into TV. Coming out

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Speaker 1: of software sales, coming out of software sales France, yea.

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Speaker 1: And I lived, you know, in France and in Australia,

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Speaker 1: worked for a manufact My my wife will tell you

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Speaker 1: she married a computer geek and who evolved into a

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Speaker 1: redneck because I mean I have I've fished my entire life.

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Speaker 1: I did some pheasant hunting and small game hunting as

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Speaker 1: a kid, you know, from like thirteen on. But I've

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Speaker 1: just always been a fisherman. Um. But I just kind

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Speaker 1: of went away. We went overseas and we didn't just

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Speaker 1: didn't do that very much. We came back and and

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Speaker 1: now she's lost me to fishing and hunting. Um. So

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Speaker 1: you so you went when you were producing the show

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Speaker 1: though you weren't you weren't working with the nut, you

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Speaker 1: weren't working with Outdoor Channel Sportsmen Channel. Uh, we had

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Speaker 1: a production company called Mudy Boot Productions, and we just

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Speaker 1: we did sold the show. Yeah, yeah, exactly, Yeah, you

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Speaker 1: know that's that's one of the first is when I

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Speaker 1: asked to explain when people wonder about uh, people want

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Speaker 1: to like outdoor TV or people called hunting TV. Can

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Speaker 1: you explain? Because there's different ways in which the like

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Speaker 1: there's different business models by which the networks will engage

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Speaker 1: with shows where you have shows that networks own, so

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Speaker 1: you have shows that but it's like Outdoor Channel sports

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Speaker 1: and Channel will own there shows that they license. And

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Speaker 1: then there's then there's a thing called time buys. Can

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Speaker 1: you walk people through what a time by it? Sure?

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Speaker 1: And I've looked for other examples of television networks similar

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Speaker 1: to ours, and that time by model exists on a

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Speaker 1: smaller scale in some places, but for the most part,

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Speaker 1: hunting television has is just unique where well it but

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Speaker 1: a time by model would be like an infomercial show

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Speaker 1: or channel right exactly do that, but um, like the

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Speaker 1: Golf channel. You could buy time on the Golf channel,

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Speaker 1: but most of their programming is owned by the Golf channel. UM.

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Speaker 1: The the the way television evolved is, UM. You know,

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Speaker 1: the networks create this platform. You know, they negotiate with

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Speaker 1: the carriers to to be in you know, millions of homes.

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Speaker 1: And before my time, they just went out to producers

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Speaker 1: who wanted we're starting to film their hunts and just

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Speaker 1: wanted to um put them somewhere. So the network would

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Speaker 1: essentially sell them commercial time, UM and sell them a

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Speaker 1: thirty minute block and they would get five minutes of

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Speaker 1: commercials and UM. That's kind of how that model was born.

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Speaker 1: So it's still probably eight of our business, our independent

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Speaker 1: producers looking for a place to air their content. So

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Speaker 1: we have it's yeah, and at a time it was right, right.

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Speaker 1: So what happened as things evolved in the networks start

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Speaker 1: to grow and the affiliates you know, want different things. UM,

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Speaker 1: the network started investing in its own content so that

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Speaker 1: we could Like Wardens was an original program, original production

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Speaker 1: that we produced four outdoor Channel UM. It didn't fit

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Speaker 1: that time by model where we couldn't go out and

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Speaker 1: get endorsement deals. We didn't have a host. We had

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Speaker 1: game Wardens that we were following, so we couldn't fund

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Speaker 1: the production. But that's these The essence of the time

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Speaker 1: by model is you create a show, we air it

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Speaker 1: on our network, You get commercial inventory, You sell commercials

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Speaker 1: or other things to your sponsors to fund the production

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Speaker 1: and to pay for your airtime. But a lot of companies,

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Speaker 1: there's a lot of companies who look at doing a

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Speaker 1: time by as basically as a marketing spend for the company.

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Speaker 1: Right right. One of the shows I produced UM as

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Speaker 1: an independent UM was Fox Pro Fur Takers. It's a

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Speaker 1: predator hunting show, and so you know that's their brand,

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Speaker 1: Fox pro Um. They're hunting anyways, So they started filming

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Speaker 1: and you know, we did real high quality production and

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Speaker 1: for them it's a marketing expense. They also brought in

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Speaker 1: some sponsors to help underwrite it. But at the end

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Speaker 1: of the day, you know, they weren't making a profit

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Speaker 1: on their TV show. But it was a per platform

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Speaker 1: to get their message out, um, you know, to a

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Speaker 1: to a mass audience. And that's what that's our networks deliver.

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Speaker 1: Are we built in audience who is you know, knows

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Speaker 1: what to expect when they turn on the TV and

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Speaker 1: watch Sportsman Channel. So when a company, let's say you

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Speaker 1: play and I don't, let's just say like take a

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Speaker 1: place like Cabellas or bass Pro or or any manufacturers, retailers, manufacturers,

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Speaker 1: they'll do the time. They'll do the time by and

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Speaker 1: then of course they their block of time. They have

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Speaker 1: their half hour segment has the show in it, so

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Speaker 1: they're making a national show. But it also has AD units.

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Speaker 1: So there are companies that will they'll they'll come in

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Speaker 1: and uh use some of the AD units to draw

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Speaker 1: the connection to their own brand. But then they might

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Speaker 1: also go and have AD units they're used by other

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Speaker 1: outside partners of their exactly bass Pro shops has um productions.

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Speaker 1: They have their own production operations, so they buy time

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Speaker 1: from us, for example for the bass pros on Outdoor Channel.

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Speaker 1: So yes, know that they run bass Pro and now

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Speaker 1: Cabella's spots in that show, but they'll also run well

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Speaker 1: they and they'll do they've got other brands too, so

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Speaker 1: their nitro boats, but they might do a mercury um

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Speaker 1: commercial in it, or they may even have um, you

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Speaker 1: know specific you know, Strike King or something as a

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Speaker 1: sponsor of the show. So even though the retailer owns

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Speaker 1: the show, uh, they have a team that will go

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Speaker 1: out and sell it in the NA does the same thing,

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Speaker 1: Like we have an n RA show American Riflemen Um

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Speaker 1: that the n r A owns and produces. They have

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Speaker 1: their own production operation, but they go out and sell

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Speaker 1: a lot of advertising around that and then they have

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Speaker 1: a magazine that supports the production as well. Another thing

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Speaker 1: that happens, and this is I think where this is

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Speaker 1: what's a little bit more interesting is the onything that

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Speaker 1: happens is an individual can go and build a show,

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Speaker 1: right because I think there's a lot of people who

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Speaker 1: like are like how do how does one have? Like

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Speaker 1: how does a person get a hunting show? And I

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Speaker 1: think that it's probably like the path And I don't

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Speaker 1: want to say it's the path of least resistance financially

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Speaker 1: because there's a ton of resistance finance. There's a lot

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Speaker 1: of work to put it together, but like layout, how

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Speaker 1: a person like an individual not a big company. How

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Speaker 1: an individual goals and creates a show and finances a show.

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Speaker 1: It's um. It's evolved a little bit because the barrier

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Speaker 1: to entry has gotten a little bit higher. But you know,

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Speaker 1: ten years ago, it was you know, a guy who

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Speaker 1: loves to hunt, UM has a buddy who knows who

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Speaker 1: knows how in air brackets, how to film, or how

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Speaker 1: to edit, and they just you know, they and everybody

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Speaker 1: thinks they're interesting and entertaining, so they're gonna they're gonna

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Speaker 1: do their hunting show. UM. And there are a lot

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Speaker 1: of shows that got that started that way. But the

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Speaker 1: networks started raising this standard quality and you have to

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Speaker 1: start buying better equipment and hiring more talented people and involved.

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Speaker 1: But there's a lot of people that just started with

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Speaker 1: that dream of wanting to wanting to to hunt. They

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Speaker 1: watched you know, Bill Jordan on TV and uh T

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Speaker 1: n T thirty years ago and and wanted to be that.

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Speaker 1: Now there's a lot of people that you know, want

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Speaker 1: to be the next Michael Wadel. And so there's still

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Speaker 1: that that dream of just buying a camera and buying

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Speaker 1: a mac and cutting a show, going to getting a

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Speaker 1: bunch of sponsors, selling advertisement space. But that's I think

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Speaker 1: that's when I advised people early on, because you know,

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Speaker 1: we get a lot of inquiries and I usually tell them,

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Speaker 1: you know, you have you have to probably plan to

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Speaker 1: spend upwards of five thousand dollars to get a show

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Speaker 1: off the ground, to do it right, to have the

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Speaker 1: production values, and to build a brand to the point

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Speaker 1: where advertisers want to be a part of it. And

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Speaker 1: that's probably the biggest mistake the aspiring outdoor TV personalities

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Speaker 1: make is these brands are not interested in funding your lifestyle.

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Speaker 1: They're moving They're interested in moving product. So some of

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Speaker 1: the best in in TV have been the most successful.

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Speaker 1: I should say, have you know, have understood that. You know,

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Speaker 1: guys like Pat Reeve from Driven TV, and he's been

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Speaker 1: doing this for thirty years, he knows at the end

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Speaker 1: of the day, if if his show, if he's not

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Speaker 1: using product properly and not over not over selling it,

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Speaker 1: you know, not it's not to the point where you

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Speaker 1: raise suspicions exactly. And it's it's it's a battle that

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Speaker 1: that I fight, um because I get it, you need

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Speaker 1: to satisfy your your sponsors and your advertisers. But you're Also,

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Speaker 1: you know, you don't want to oversell. Viewers can smell

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Speaker 1: the cell. You know, we'd I'd rather see them just

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Speaker 1: use a product properly and then say, hey, look at

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Speaker 1: this thing with Jack, I'm using here and this is

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Speaker 1: making me you know, kilmore deer or a bigger deer. Whatever.

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Speaker 1: Viewers get that they want they just want to see

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Speaker 1: the success. So so we we try to minimize the

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Speaker 1: commercial elements in a show, but you know, that's what's

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Speaker 1: funding that. But like I said, I think the biggest

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Speaker 1: mistake the youth are making is they feel like, oh

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Speaker 1: these there's there's no brands out there that you know,

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Speaker 1: their mission is to help somebody else, you know, pay

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Speaker 1: for their hunting. It's they want to move products. So

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Speaker 1: and that's what we're That's a lot of our content

425
00:24:05,240 --> 00:24:08,720
Speaker 1: inspires people to get out and hunt and and you

426
00:24:08,720 --> 00:24:11,080
Speaker 1: know they learn a lot from you know, on new

427
00:24:11,119 --> 00:24:13,320
Speaker 1: products and how to use them and use them properly.

428
00:24:14,000 --> 00:24:16,560
Speaker 1: So increasingly, you guys want to be I mean, coming

429
00:24:16,600 --> 00:24:18,399
Speaker 1: from the network perspective, you want to be in a

430
00:24:18,520 --> 00:24:23,400
Speaker 1: situation where you're saying like, sure, you're buying space from

431
00:24:23,440 --> 00:24:31,040
Speaker 1: our network. But there's some parameters around this like I'll

432
00:24:31,480 --> 00:24:34,320
Speaker 1: I'll sell it to you on the condition that your

433
00:24:34,359 --> 00:24:38,120
Speaker 1: product meets a certain threshold of quality. And and that

434
00:24:38,280 --> 00:24:42,280
Speaker 1: too has evolved because you know, Outdoor Channel has UM

435
00:24:42,359 --> 00:24:46,440
Speaker 1: has had very high standards UM for the better part

436
00:24:46,440 --> 00:24:49,399
Speaker 1: of a decade where and we've we've been sold out

437
00:24:49,760 --> 00:24:53,000
Speaker 1: for the most part for the past fifteen years, so

438
00:24:53,520 --> 00:24:55,480
Speaker 1: we can discriminate a little bit about you know, what

439
00:24:55,560 --> 00:24:59,640
Speaker 1: kind of content we're willing to take. Oh for help

440
00:24:59,680 --> 00:25:01,720
Speaker 1: for you say, for fifteen years, you haven't had like

441
00:25:01,800 --> 00:25:04,040
Speaker 1: worry about how you're going to fill that spy that

442
00:25:04,119 --> 00:25:07,440
Speaker 1: space though not known in in absolutely in prime time.

443
00:25:07,560 --> 00:25:09,920
Speaker 1: You know, I don't have a lot of flexibility because

444
00:25:09,920 --> 00:25:11,600
Speaker 1: I've got a lot of long time shows that have

445
00:25:12,080 --> 00:25:14,719
Speaker 1: owned those time slots for a long time and and

446
00:25:14,760 --> 00:25:17,960
Speaker 1: have been very successful. Um. You know for us and

447
00:25:18,040 --> 00:25:20,800
Speaker 1: for them that that's I say a lot. I'm in

448
00:25:20,840 --> 00:25:24,280
Speaker 1: the business of creating these mutually beneficial relationships. We have

449
00:25:24,359 --> 00:25:27,480
Speaker 1: all of these assets and investments in our networks and

450
00:25:27,600 --> 00:25:30,280
Speaker 1: building our audience so that when the show when Mediator

451
00:25:30,359 --> 00:25:34,760
Speaker 1: comes on, you know it's gonna it's gonna reach that audience. UM.

452
00:25:34,800 --> 00:25:36,840
Speaker 1: And then the producer needs to go out and be

453
00:25:36,960 --> 00:25:40,720
Speaker 1: successful in selling that time to their sponsors to fund it.

454
00:25:40,840 --> 00:25:43,040
Speaker 1: And if if they're not successful, then we're not going

455
00:25:43,080 --> 00:25:45,119
Speaker 1: to be successful. But yeah, we've been sold out for

456
00:25:45,520 --> 00:25:50,280
Speaker 1: the better part of a decade. Well we're emailing. You mentioned, uh,

457
00:25:50,520 --> 00:25:53,320
Speaker 1: you you mentioned the good, the bad, and ugly about

458
00:25:53,440 --> 00:25:56,680
Speaker 1: or television. What do you mean by that? Uh? When

459
00:25:56,720 --> 00:25:59,480
Speaker 1: I took this job, you know, I had, you know,

460
00:25:59,520 --> 00:26:02,520
Speaker 1: a vision and and really a goal to to leave

461
00:26:02,720 --> 00:26:05,960
Speaker 1: hunting and fishing not just hunting and fishing intelligence, but

462
00:26:06,040 --> 00:26:08,720
Speaker 1: in a better place than than um than when I

463
00:26:08,840 --> 00:26:12,280
Speaker 1: when I came into it. Um. But there's a lot

464
00:26:12,359 --> 00:26:14,119
Speaker 1: of masters, you know, and there's a lot of you know,

465
00:26:14,720 --> 00:26:18,439
Speaker 1: um people have very specific tastes and what they like,

466
00:26:18,560 --> 00:26:22,880
Speaker 1: and so you know, we have some producers who are um,

467
00:26:22,920 --> 00:26:26,720
Speaker 1: you know, loud and and um and great characters and

468
00:26:26,880 --> 00:26:30,520
Speaker 1: they tend to draw a good audience, but they also

469
00:26:30,600 --> 00:26:33,880
Speaker 1: draw detractors. And so I'll have you know people, Oh

470
00:26:33,920 --> 00:26:35,440
Speaker 1: you need to get rid of that show because of

471
00:26:35,560 --> 00:26:39,400
Speaker 1: that or I'm only into uh, you know, western archery, hunting,

472
00:26:39,440 --> 00:26:41,479
Speaker 1: I don't want to. I don't care about you know,

473
00:26:41,920 --> 00:26:45,879
Speaker 1: Midwest deer and and guys whispering in the tree. So um,

474
00:26:47,160 --> 00:26:50,480
Speaker 1: and yeah, so I have to program the network to

475
00:26:51,320 --> 00:26:54,399
Speaker 1: reach a broad audience, whether it's you know, we have

476
00:26:54,480 --> 00:26:57,560
Speaker 1: upland shows and not everyly, you know, and we have

477
00:26:57,680 --> 00:27:00,159
Speaker 1: archery shows, and so I get the ugly thing. I

478
00:27:00,160 --> 00:27:02,920
Speaker 1: get all the viewer feedback, although social media is evolving

479
00:27:02,960 --> 00:27:05,119
Speaker 1: some of that now. Most people just go to the

480
00:27:05,160 --> 00:27:08,240
Speaker 1: show pages and start bashing in that, but they're less

481
00:27:08,240 --> 00:27:10,720
Speaker 1: likely to call, you know, if someone wants to. We

482
00:27:10,720 --> 00:27:13,280
Speaker 1: have a feedback form on our website, and so I'll

483
00:27:13,320 --> 00:27:15,760
Speaker 1: get it. But so if somebody wants to send feedback,

484
00:27:15,800 --> 00:27:17,760
Speaker 1: they have to go to our website. It's not hard

485
00:27:17,800 --> 00:27:19,640
Speaker 1: to find. They find the form, they fill it out,

486
00:27:19,720 --> 00:27:21,720
Speaker 1: and they have to answer a couple of questions and

487
00:27:21,800 --> 00:27:24,120
Speaker 1: they so. So by the time I get that kind

488
00:27:24,119 --> 00:27:26,679
Speaker 1: of feedback, I'm dealing with somebody who's passionate about it.

489
00:27:26,760 --> 00:27:29,800
Speaker 1: And um, you know, we we respond to viewer feedback,

490
00:27:29,960 --> 00:27:34,200
Speaker 1: and I'll personally respond if someone has is critical, as

491
00:27:34,200 --> 00:27:38,480
Speaker 1: long as they're respectful, I'm happy to respond. What would

492
00:27:38,480 --> 00:27:40,520
Speaker 1: be an example of a criticism that would come in,

493
00:27:40,600 --> 00:27:43,160
Speaker 1: I mean those people being dissatisfied with something they saw

494
00:27:43,320 --> 00:27:47,520
Speaker 1: Right on Outdoor Channel we were running some syndicated shows

495
00:27:47,560 --> 00:27:50,920
Speaker 1: We're running Wickedtuna right now, which is an awesome show

496
00:27:50,960 --> 00:27:54,480
Speaker 1: if him and follow Wikatuna um. And we did deaditi'st

497
00:27:54,520 --> 00:27:57,600
Speaker 1: Catch and Duck Dynasty and Duck Dynasty. Uh, A lot

498
00:27:57,640 --> 00:28:01,800
Speaker 1: of our people, the core audience, hunting audience don't. They

499
00:28:01,800 --> 00:28:05,199
Speaker 1: don't like Duck Dynasty. But that surprised me to hear

500
00:28:05,240 --> 00:28:08,480
Speaker 1: when someone, someone who's very familiar with that show was

501
00:28:08,560 --> 00:28:12,399
Speaker 1: explaining that it wasn't it's not hunters weren't watching that

502
00:28:12,440 --> 00:28:14,840
Speaker 1: show as much. Right, So the the idea, so, like

503
00:28:14,840 --> 00:28:17,040
Speaker 1: I said, we have we have many masters, and we

504
00:28:17,080 --> 00:28:21,040
Speaker 1: work with affiliates, you know, Dish, Direct TV, Comcast, all

505
00:28:21,080 --> 00:28:27,240
Speaker 1: the major carriers. And this hunting market is not expanding

506
00:28:27,720 --> 00:28:31,000
Speaker 1: the financial side that you know, there's a finite amount

507
00:28:31,000 --> 00:28:34,640
Speaker 1: of money in this market. It wasn't getting bigger hunting.

508
00:28:35,040 --> 00:28:38,680
Speaker 1: It's debatable, you know, numbers are are declining or participation

509
00:28:38,800 --> 00:28:42,640
Speaker 1: is declining. So as a for our company to succeed

510
00:28:42,720 --> 00:28:45,440
Speaker 1: and for our producers to succeed, we had an initiative

511
00:28:45,480 --> 00:28:48,400
Speaker 1: to try to expand our audience. We had research that

512
00:28:48,480 --> 00:28:52,600
Speaker 1: showed that people who maybe don't participate in hunting or fishing,

513
00:28:52,920 --> 00:28:58,160
Speaker 1: but like outdoor adventure programming like Deadliest Catch, like Duck Dynasty. Um,

514
00:28:58,200 --> 00:29:00,800
Speaker 1: we called him like it's a primary attain anable audience

515
00:29:00,880 --> 00:29:03,920
Speaker 1: for us. So that's why we brought in Duck Dynasty.

516
00:29:04,120 --> 00:29:06,880
Speaker 1: They have this huge brand. Whether you like the show

517
00:29:07,000 --> 00:29:10,560
Speaker 1: or not, the brand recognition for Duck Dynasty back in

518
00:29:10,600 --> 00:29:14,160
Speaker 1: the day was like of the general public were aware

519
00:29:14,160 --> 00:29:16,560
Speaker 1: of Duck Dynasty and we were the first network to

520
00:29:16,560 --> 00:29:19,360
Speaker 1: syndicate it, and it brought in new audience. We can

521
00:29:19,440 --> 00:29:22,160
Speaker 1: we can show, we've done research, we've seen the numbers.

522
00:29:22,160 --> 00:29:24,560
Speaker 1: So it actually helped us grow our audience and helps

523
00:29:24,600 --> 00:29:28,560
Speaker 1: us maintain our distribution. But if I'm a white tail

524
00:29:28,640 --> 00:29:32,680
Speaker 1: hunter from Iowa, I don't want to watch duck Dynasty

525
00:29:32,800 --> 00:29:35,360
Speaker 1: or you know, fake reality TV or whatever it is.

526
00:29:35,400 --> 00:29:37,840
Speaker 1: So you want to learn how to kill big giant

527
00:29:37,840 --> 00:29:41,240
Speaker 1: bucks and yeah, and the reality is this, Um, the

528
00:29:41,320 --> 00:29:44,720
Speaker 1: hunting market is driven by deer and the fishing market

529
00:29:44,760 --> 00:29:48,720
Speaker 1: is driven by bass. So yeah, my impression of how

530
00:29:48,840 --> 00:29:54,040
Speaker 1: hunting my impression of how people watched Hunting TV probably

531
00:29:54,080 --> 00:29:56,760
Speaker 1: the correct, But my idea was that people watched it

532
00:29:56,800 --> 00:29:59,560
Speaker 1: like how people watch the news. Where are people that

533
00:29:59,640 --> 00:30:03,760
Speaker 1: just have UM and they just watch what's there? You're

534
00:30:03,800 --> 00:30:06,640
Speaker 1: saying that people like the viewers Cherry Pick, like I

535
00:30:06,680 --> 00:30:09,280
Speaker 1: watched that show. I don't watch that show, you know.

536
00:30:09,360 --> 00:30:12,440
Speaker 1: I think one of the biggest and this wasn't from research,

537
00:30:12,520 --> 00:30:15,520
Speaker 1: but just from talking to people. Most of our viewers,

538
00:30:15,520 --> 00:30:18,880
Speaker 1: you know, they're they're they're hardcore. So if you're watching hunting,

539
00:30:18,960 --> 00:30:22,479
Speaker 1: it's because you're really like you're in into hunting. And

540
00:30:22,520 --> 00:30:25,120
Speaker 1: I think they judge the shows they watched mostly by

541
00:30:25,160 --> 00:30:26,960
Speaker 1: if they would want if they would want to be

542
00:30:27,000 --> 00:30:31,160
Speaker 1: in camp with the talent. You know, I um, I

543
00:30:31,200 --> 00:30:33,720
Speaker 1: hunted last year with Roger Regland, who's been in the

544
00:30:33,720 --> 00:30:35,800
Speaker 1: business for thirty years, and and part of it was

545
00:30:35,840 --> 00:30:38,000
Speaker 1: because I was like, when I watched Roger Regland on TV,

546
00:30:38,080 --> 00:30:41,280
Speaker 1: I want to experience what it's like to be in

547
00:30:41,280 --> 00:30:43,720
Speaker 1: a camp with Roger Regland. And that's a lot of

548
00:30:43,720 --> 00:30:46,040
Speaker 1: the feedback you get in social media as well as

549
00:30:46,200 --> 00:30:48,080
Speaker 1: you know, Michael Waddells, I wish I could hunt with

550
00:30:48,160 --> 00:30:50,840
Speaker 1: Kip Campbell from Red Arrow, so so you know, and

551
00:30:50,880 --> 00:30:53,320
Speaker 1: there are guys that that don't appeal to certain people.

552
00:30:53,400 --> 00:30:55,640
Speaker 1: So I think when they watch it, they're like, yeah,

553
00:30:55,680 --> 00:30:58,080
Speaker 1: I mean, it's it's like almost I can't hunt now.

554
00:30:58,360 --> 00:31:01,680
Speaker 1: But I'm gonna be watching these guys hunt and that's

555
00:31:02,400 --> 00:31:05,400
Speaker 1: that's how they picked the shows they like. What are

556
00:31:05,440 --> 00:31:08,600
Speaker 1: some of the um of the uh kind of like

557
00:31:08,640 --> 00:31:13,960
Speaker 1: the famous talent pool, right, what are like? You got

558
00:31:13,960 --> 00:31:18,760
Speaker 1: people that you look forward to them calling, and then

559
00:31:19,840 --> 00:31:22,520
Speaker 1: hosts that you really don't look forward to them calling,

560
00:31:23,280 --> 00:31:25,720
Speaker 1: like right, because you're you're communicating with all these people,

561
00:31:26,160 --> 00:31:28,560
Speaker 1: they're chancing of them. We'll hear this. No, no, okay.

562
00:31:28,840 --> 00:31:34,760
Speaker 1: So um, I started as a producer and UM and

563
00:31:34,760 --> 00:31:37,080
Speaker 1: and had my own company. So I've I've run a

564
00:31:37,120 --> 00:31:40,800
Speaker 1: small business and most of our producers are small business owners,

565
00:31:41,360 --> 00:31:43,880
Speaker 1: and I've walked that path. It's not easy. So I

566
00:31:44,280 --> 00:31:48,000
Speaker 1: go into whether I like somebody personally or connect with

567
00:31:48,080 --> 00:31:51,280
Speaker 1: them as a friend, whatever. I go into almost all

568
00:31:51,280 --> 00:31:53,800
Speaker 1: of the conversations with a certain amount of respect for

569
00:31:53,840 --> 00:31:58,000
Speaker 1: what they're doing growing their business. You know, we have

570
00:31:58,040 --> 00:32:01,479
Speaker 1: producers who have you know, ten employees and it's you know,

571
00:32:01,560 --> 00:32:05,480
Speaker 1: so they're they're very passionate about hunting and and the business.

572
00:32:05,520 --> 00:32:08,800
Speaker 1: So so yes, there are times when I my phone

573
00:32:08,880 --> 00:32:11,720
Speaker 1: rings and UM, I wouldn't say I cringe, but it's

574
00:32:11,760 --> 00:32:15,520
Speaker 1: like okay, and I'm you know, I the biggest problem

575
00:32:15,520 --> 00:32:18,240
Speaker 1: I have is I I don't I can have three

576
00:32:18,280 --> 00:32:21,160
Speaker 1: things I need to get done in a day, and um,

577
00:32:21,280 --> 00:32:23,360
Speaker 1: my day will be hijacked by like eight fifteen. And

578
00:32:23,400 --> 00:32:26,440
Speaker 1: Mondays are the worst because something will come up over

579
00:32:26,440 --> 00:32:28,800
Speaker 1: the weekend and so I'll get a call and they're

580
00:32:28,880 --> 00:32:31,560
Speaker 1: they're they're all important calls. So I try to take

581
00:32:31,600 --> 00:32:35,520
Speaker 1: them all as I can, but it's hard to get through. Um.

582
00:32:35,560 --> 00:32:38,120
Speaker 1: But I we definitely have characters in in the lineup

583
00:32:38,160 --> 00:32:43,320
Speaker 1: and um, um, there's there's none I don't there's none

584
00:32:43,320 --> 00:32:46,320
Speaker 1: that I dislike, but definitely have those that are just

585
00:32:46,360 --> 00:32:50,680
Speaker 1: a hoot. I'm yeah, I'm I'm a sucker for you know,

586
00:32:50,880 --> 00:32:54,240
Speaker 1: people with passion. So and so, I like, I had

587
00:32:54,440 --> 00:32:57,200
Speaker 1: a conversation today with Mark Zona. He's a bass fishing guy.

588
00:32:57,280 --> 00:33:00,400
Speaker 1: Zona's awesome fishing show. And that guy he's hard, hard core,

589
00:33:00,560 --> 00:33:07,000
Speaker 1: he is intense, he's an amazing already. He's a Chicago guy,

590
00:33:07,120 --> 00:33:10,400
Speaker 1: lives in Michigan. But he's, um just a great character

591
00:33:10,720 --> 00:33:14,000
Speaker 1: and um and he's somewhat polarizing too to you know,

592
00:33:14,000 --> 00:33:16,280
Speaker 1: some people don't like his style because he's, you know, dude,

593
00:33:16,360 --> 00:33:18,440
Speaker 1: He's a he says dude a lot. But it's but

594
00:33:18,560 --> 00:33:21,920
Speaker 1: he's authentic and I'm drawn to that in our talent.

595
00:33:22,040 --> 00:33:25,840
Speaker 1: I like our I like talent who are the same

596
00:33:25,960 --> 00:33:29,200
Speaker 1: off camera and on camera, because at some point it's

597
00:33:29,200 --> 00:33:31,120
Speaker 1: hard to I don't want to know. It's like, oh,

598
00:33:31,160 --> 00:33:33,600
Speaker 1: on this on camera guy or the It's most of

599
00:33:33,600 --> 00:33:37,200
Speaker 1: our our hosts are authentic, you know. And uh, I

600
00:33:37,280 --> 00:33:41,320
Speaker 1: like that. And um, we work with Ted Nugent and

601
00:33:41,440 --> 00:33:45,360
Speaker 1: um to explain Ted, and I've worked closely with him.

602
00:33:45,640 --> 00:33:47,960
Speaker 1: He's in a league of his own. I mean, he's

603
00:33:47,960 --> 00:33:52,440
Speaker 1: a rock star, he's a hunting TV star. He's yeah,

604
00:33:52,560 --> 00:33:57,440
Speaker 1: and and I mean Ted has um there's nobody can

605
00:33:57,480 --> 00:34:00,000
Speaker 1: do what Ted does. I mean people think they might

606
00:34:00,080 --> 00:34:01,680
Speaker 1: be able to do, but to go on to CNN

607
00:34:01,720 --> 00:34:05,560
Speaker 1: and take on Pierce Morgan and and when just be Ted,

608
00:34:05,640 --> 00:34:09,200
Speaker 1: you you can't. I've met Ted and I've met Donald

609
00:34:09,200 --> 00:34:12,319
Speaker 1: Trump now, and you can't connect with these guys like

610
00:34:12,360 --> 00:34:14,640
Speaker 1: we can connect. We can connect over fishing, we can

611
00:34:14,680 --> 00:34:17,600
Speaker 1: connect over food, we can connect over Ted is just

612
00:34:17,800 --> 00:34:20,680
Speaker 1: he's so driven and that that dude works harder than

613
00:34:20,760 --> 00:34:23,000
Speaker 1: any human being I've ever seen in my entire LEAVE mean,

614
00:34:23,040 --> 00:34:26,440
Speaker 1: he still does like two concerts a year and he

615
00:34:26,640 --> 00:34:30,440
Speaker 1: hunts like forty days a year or it's like seriously,

616
00:34:30,440 --> 00:34:33,719
Speaker 1: I mean he's he's just always out doing something. Um

617
00:34:33,760 --> 00:34:37,640
Speaker 1: and he's and he's passionate. So UM we had we

618
00:34:37,640 --> 00:34:39,840
Speaker 1: we did something as a network that Ted didn't appreciate

619
00:34:40,160 --> 00:34:44,000
Speaker 1: and he called me one day and um told me that,

620
00:34:44,600 --> 00:34:47,520
Speaker 1: And for fifteen minutes he told me that, And I

621
00:34:47,560 --> 00:34:50,200
Speaker 1: was like, man, and he was. He was in a

622
00:34:50,280 --> 00:34:54,359
Speaker 1: very been a very very spirit very quickly spoken, articulate fashion. Yeah. No,

623
00:34:54,440 --> 00:34:57,040
Speaker 1: and he exactly and it wasn't bad and he was

624
00:34:57,120 --> 00:35:00,600
Speaker 1: not disrespectful. But I was like, going, man, mo, people,

625
00:35:00,640 --> 00:35:03,400
Speaker 1: if you want to hear Ted Nugent go off like this,

626
00:35:03,520 --> 00:35:05,440
Speaker 1: you have to find it on YouTube. I'm like, one

627
00:35:05,440 --> 00:35:06,840
Speaker 1: on one on the phone. I wish I could have

628
00:35:06,880 --> 00:35:10,680
Speaker 1: recorded it because he's he's brilliant that way and UM

629
00:35:10,719 --> 00:35:15,160
Speaker 1: so that Yeah, I enjoy working with Ted and um

630
00:35:15,520 --> 00:35:18,319
Speaker 1: and but he's one of the most unique talents on

631
00:35:18,360 --> 00:35:21,920
Speaker 1: our network. So when you're when you're fitting out like

632
00:35:21,960 --> 00:35:24,759
Speaker 1: the programming, right, do you picture like walking into a

633
00:35:24,800 --> 00:35:29,040
Speaker 1: big sporting goods store where you're like, oh, here's the

634
00:35:29,040 --> 00:35:32,319
Speaker 1: fishing section. Make sure the fishing is okay, and then

635
00:35:32,360 --> 00:35:38,000
Speaker 1: here's my you know, like warm water. Yeah, here's upland

636
00:35:38,080 --> 00:35:42,839
Speaker 1: over here, here's camping, here's big game hunting, here's the waterfowl.

637
00:35:43,160 --> 00:35:45,160
Speaker 1: Like do you do? You try to keep all that

638
00:35:45,200 --> 00:35:48,440
Speaker 1: in mind and make sure that you're not missing anything

639
00:35:48,560 --> 00:35:50,120
Speaker 1: or could or do you want to realize now? And

640
00:35:50,160 --> 00:35:52,640
Speaker 1: then you have like a big hole. You know, I

641
00:35:52,680 --> 00:35:55,440
Speaker 1: inherited first of all, you know this the the lineup

642
00:35:55,560 --> 00:35:58,359
Speaker 1: essentially in the schedule, and I have a pier who

643
00:35:58,440 --> 00:36:01,760
Speaker 1: I work with, UM Katie Gladstone, who actually does the scheduling,

644
00:36:01,800 --> 00:36:04,360
Speaker 1: so she's more analytical on the on the schedule and

645
00:36:04,400 --> 00:36:08,479
Speaker 1: she's looking at ratings UM. But the business, the time

646
00:36:08,480 --> 00:36:12,560
Speaker 1: by business has really established a lot of that for us,

647
00:36:12,960 --> 00:36:18,080
Speaker 1: where seasonally there's UM, there's less demand in TV hunting

648
00:36:18,120 --> 00:36:21,600
Speaker 1: TV in first and second quarter, so fishing kind of

649
00:36:21,640 --> 00:36:23,960
Speaker 1: built up in first and second quarter. And then the

650
00:36:24,040 --> 00:36:30,480
Speaker 1: retail cycles because hunting retail, you know, it's mostly like September, October, November,

651
00:36:31,120 --> 00:36:33,560
Speaker 1: so that's when the retailers and the advertisers want to

652
00:36:33,560 --> 00:36:36,680
Speaker 1: be in there. So the market has kind of driven

653
00:36:36,760 --> 00:36:39,440
Speaker 1: some of that schedule. And then yes, we will do

654
00:36:39,760 --> 00:36:43,640
Speaker 1: UM will focus more white tail or big game in

655
00:36:43,760 --> 00:36:47,040
Speaker 1: primetime and third and fourth quarter. But you know, weekend

656
00:36:47,080 --> 00:36:51,359
Speaker 1: mornings have become fishing uh pretty much year round. UM.

657
00:36:51,560 --> 00:36:56,239
Speaker 1: Weekend afternoons are very good UM day parts for us UM.

658
00:36:56,320 --> 00:37:00,640
Speaker 1: So we will run waterfowl, upland and some of the

659
00:37:00,880 --> 00:37:03,799
Speaker 1: non big game in those time slots. So it has

660
00:37:03,880 --> 00:37:06,359
Speaker 1: kind of it has kind of filtered out that way,

661
00:37:06,640 --> 00:37:08,399
Speaker 1: much like you do see in a retail store because

662
00:37:08,440 --> 00:37:12,000
Speaker 1: you're chasing people's interests, or you're chasing because because you're

663
00:37:12,040 --> 00:37:15,440
Speaker 1: chasing what people let me put this there for way,

664
00:37:15,719 --> 00:37:18,360
Speaker 1: so you're timing it out because that's where the advertising

665
00:37:18,440 --> 00:37:21,280
Speaker 1: dollars are for producers. Are you timing it out because

666
00:37:21,280 --> 00:37:23,480
Speaker 1: some guys like I'm hunting deer in a week, I

667
00:37:23,520 --> 00:37:25,719
Speaker 1: want to watch about deer now, And I don't want

668
00:37:25,719 --> 00:37:28,120
Speaker 1: to watch about deer in May because in May I

669
00:37:28,160 --> 00:37:31,640
Speaker 1: want to watch about fishing. Right. Yes, our our viewership grows.

670
00:37:32,719 --> 00:37:37,160
Speaker 1: Viewers watch when they're actually participating, so there's like a

671
00:37:37,200 --> 00:37:42,520
Speaker 1: real feedback between what a person's ex what a person

672
00:37:42,600 --> 00:37:46,680
Speaker 1: is experiencing, and what they're wishing to watch. Yeah, or

673
00:37:46,760 --> 00:37:49,680
Speaker 1: like if they're mentally preparing for their hunting season, they'll

674
00:37:49,680 --> 00:37:53,239
Speaker 1: start watching more hunting and then while they're but what

675
00:37:53,239 --> 00:37:55,480
Speaker 1: about dudes watching wardens. They're not like seeing like I'm

676
00:37:55,480 --> 00:37:57,759
Speaker 1: gonna be getting busted by a warden next week. Now,

677
00:37:57,800 --> 00:38:00,279
Speaker 1: Warden Wardens was a bit of an anomaly it um,

678
00:38:00,400 --> 00:38:03,320
Speaker 1: and you know, we think it was successful because it

679
00:38:03,400 --> 00:38:06,040
Speaker 1: had such a broad appeal. Like in the story packages

680
00:38:06,080 --> 00:38:08,920
Speaker 1: were smaller, you know, they were only like five minutes segments,

681
00:38:09,000 --> 00:38:12,080
Speaker 1: Like you might not be interested in the you know,

682
00:38:12,320 --> 00:38:14,640
Speaker 1: antler hunting on a game range, but that was only

683
00:38:14,719 --> 00:38:16,520
Speaker 1: five minutes. The next one's going to be, you know,

684
00:38:16,640 --> 00:38:19,799
Speaker 1: some guy shooting at elk decoy and that was kind

685
00:38:19,840 --> 00:38:22,600
Speaker 1: of interesting. So it was like an ensemble type show

686
00:38:22,719 --> 00:38:25,120
Speaker 1: that follows these a bunch of different people as opposed

687
00:38:25,160 --> 00:38:28,120
Speaker 1: to you know, if you know, trout fishing historically hasn't

688
00:38:28,440 --> 00:38:31,680
Speaker 1: rated very well and so if but if you're a

689
00:38:31,680 --> 00:38:34,000
Speaker 1: trout fisherman, you got some of that on Wardens or

690
00:38:34,360 --> 00:38:37,200
Speaker 1: and everybody's had their own warden encounters or warden stories

691
00:38:37,200 --> 00:38:39,760
Speaker 1: and and when we're in Montana and now we're in Michigan,

692
00:38:39,800 --> 00:38:42,600
Speaker 1: those are both great states. I mean, Montana is a

693
00:38:42,680 --> 00:38:45,400
Speaker 1: very unique state in terms of its resources. So we

694
00:38:45,440 --> 00:38:48,560
Speaker 1: had viewers just wanted to learn about Montana and the

695
00:38:48,600 --> 00:38:53,040
Speaker 1: wardens were great characters there too, so um, they it

696
00:38:53,160 --> 00:38:55,799
Speaker 1: just had broad appeal. If you if you're gonna go

697
00:38:55,840 --> 00:38:58,720
Speaker 1: look at all the let's just say all the hunting content,

698
00:38:58,800 --> 00:39:02,439
Speaker 1: So remove fishing counts, all the hunting content from Outdoor channel,

699
00:39:02,520 --> 00:39:07,040
Speaker 1: Sportsman channel. What percent of all of that content is

700
00:39:07,120 --> 00:39:18,000
Speaker 1: driven by the white tail deer? Mm hmm it's probably Wow.

701
00:39:18,960 --> 00:39:21,200
Speaker 1: Yeah you like that. Yeah, you know the first thing

702
00:39:21,239 --> 00:39:24,920
Speaker 1: you said, I can't believe it. Yeah, I would have

703
00:39:24,960 --> 00:39:26,960
Speaker 1: thought high. I would have thought a little higher. White

704
00:39:26,960 --> 00:39:31,960
Speaker 1: tails and turkeys though, what's that? Yeah, what's what's so?

705
00:39:32,040 --> 00:39:35,480
Speaker 1: What's number two next to white tails? Um? We do

706
00:39:35,560 --> 00:39:37,279
Speaker 1: a lot of elk, so, a lot of a lot

707
00:39:37,280 --> 00:39:40,320
Speaker 1: of big game um, and some of the aspirating moose.

708
00:39:41,280 --> 00:39:44,080
Speaker 1: So yeah, it's big game. I think people like the

709
00:39:44,120 --> 00:39:46,760
Speaker 1: people like to watch a moose show, right. Jim Shocky

710
00:39:46,800 --> 00:39:49,520
Speaker 1: will tell you that. You know, his ratings they bump

711
00:39:49,840 --> 00:39:53,520
Speaker 1: every time he does a big yukon moose. So um,

712
00:39:53,560 --> 00:39:56,279
Speaker 1: and that's aspirational. We see a lot of that. You know,

713
00:39:56,360 --> 00:39:58,200
Speaker 1: there's not a lot of people who participate in sheep

714
00:39:58,280 --> 00:39:59,880
Speaker 1: hunting or goat hunting, but they'll watch it on t

715
00:40:00,080 --> 00:40:03,480
Speaker 1: V because it's one one thing is interesting though your

716
00:40:03,480 --> 00:40:07,360
Speaker 1: show is very different I think. But a lot of

717
00:40:07,320 --> 00:40:10,479
Speaker 1: times like the big international destinations and I'm not talking

718
00:40:10,480 --> 00:40:12,279
Speaker 1: to Africa, I'm not. But like you know, hunting in

719
00:40:12,320 --> 00:40:17,040
Speaker 1: the Himalayas or or as Michael Widelf accused, Jim Shocky

720
00:40:17,160 --> 00:40:22,080
Speaker 1: hunting red bearded devil goats in Djibouti or something like that,

721
00:40:22,600 --> 00:40:25,120
Speaker 1: it doesn't really drive you know, viewership, because you know,

722
00:40:25,280 --> 00:40:28,520
Speaker 1: your your average Joe can't really wants to see deer,

723
00:40:28,800 --> 00:40:30,960
Speaker 1: or they can relate to a moose, or they can

724
00:40:31,040 --> 00:40:33,200
Speaker 1: relate to an elk even if they don't participate. Now

725
00:40:33,200 --> 00:40:37,200
Speaker 1: because in there, it's in there like spatial awareness. Man,

726
00:40:37,280 --> 00:40:39,839
Speaker 1: it's like a thing that one could feasibly go do right.

727
00:40:39,880 --> 00:40:42,160
Speaker 1: And people while you'll watch some sheep shows or something

728
00:40:42,280 --> 00:40:45,120
Speaker 1: like the ibex shows because the destinations are really cool

729
00:40:45,840 --> 00:40:48,160
Speaker 1: and and it's it's kind of out there, but they it,

730
00:40:48,360 --> 00:40:51,880
Speaker 1: you know, it's it people. They're not they're not driven

731
00:40:52,080 --> 00:40:55,920
Speaker 1: like they are for deer hunting. I like Shocky tho.

732
00:40:56,120 --> 00:40:58,919
Speaker 1: He's a good dude. He's a he's a very very

733
00:40:58,960 --> 00:41:05,200
Speaker 1: interesting guy, really really nice guy, authentic too. So last year, um,

734
00:41:05,239 --> 00:41:07,520
Speaker 1: he came into our booth at the archery trade show,

735
00:41:08,160 --> 00:41:11,399
Speaker 1: just to say hi, and Um, I was at a

736
00:41:11,440 --> 00:41:16,000
Speaker 1: brief conversation with him. Within thirty seconds, there's somebody standing

737
00:41:16,120 --> 00:41:18,120
Speaker 1: next to him waiting to tell him a story or

738
00:41:18,160 --> 00:41:20,400
Speaker 1: meet him or do something. He was there for like

739
00:41:20,480 --> 00:41:23,719
Speaker 1: three hours, meeting his fans and talking to people. He

740
00:41:23,719 --> 00:41:25,799
Speaker 1: didn't do it appear wasn't a scheduled appearance. He wasn't

741
00:41:26,600 --> 00:41:29,160
Speaker 1: just you know, just you know, loving it and people

742
00:41:29,200 --> 00:41:31,800
Speaker 1: staying they're being like, look at this, but my cousin shop. Yeah, exactly.

743
00:41:32,239 --> 00:41:35,400
Speaker 1: There's a downside to that too. I've had conversations, Um,

744
00:41:35,480 --> 00:41:39,200
Speaker 1: you know, Um, Will Primos is a guy who I

745
00:41:39,239 --> 00:41:44,279
Speaker 1: have a lot of respect for, and I'm telling you

746
00:41:44,440 --> 00:41:48,680
Speaker 1: as just like a communicator and a consistent personality. Yeah,

747
00:41:48,800 --> 00:41:51,719
Speaker 1: and just like a guy that seems like a good

748
00:41:51,800 --> 00:41:54,680
Speaker 1: human being. Will Primos. Yeah, So I'm going hunting with

749
00:41:54,719 --> 00:41:56,680
Speaker 1: him this fall. I get, you know, good for you.

750
00:41:56,760 --> 00:42:00,200
Speaker 1: I get some good opportunities and I want to Um

751
00:42:00,840 --> 00:42:04,480
Speaker 1: have those experiences. We don't while I can, so I

752
00:42:04,480 --> 00:42:06,960
Speaker 1: don't get to do a lot. But Will and I

753
00:42:07,080 --> 00:42:10,120
Speaker 1: we actually did some business together five years ago and

754
00:42:10,400 --> 00:42:12,360
Speaker 1: we had talked about going and this last year I

755
00:42:12,400 --> 00:42:13,839
Speaker 1: just said, well, I think now is the time I've

756
00:42:13,880 --> 00:42:17,080
Speaker 1: never gone on an elk hunt. I've probably watched ten

757
00:42:17,160 --> 00:42:20,960
Speaker 1: thousand elk hunts on TV. So I'm excited and I'm

758
00:42:20,960 --> 00:42:24,360
Speaker 1: a I'm a very passionate like turkey hunter. And you know,

759
00:42:24,400 --> 00:42:26,080
Speaker 1: when I get a turkey, I call it turkey and

760
00:42:26,200 --> 00:42:28,560
Speaker 1: it it's goblin and I can feel it Drummond and

761
00:42:28,600 --> 00:42:31,000
Speaker 1: Strutt and I just get super excited. So when I

762
00:42:31,040 --> 00:42:34,080
Speaker 1: have an elk coming at me, and the first time,

763
00:42:34,160 --> 00:42:36,320
Speaker 1: I told well, I might have to wear diapers because

764
00:42:36,600 --> 00:42:39,960
Speaker 1: I can't imagine how awesome it's going to be. So

765
00:42:40,000 --> 00:42:41,719
Speaker 1: We're going to New Mexico and I'm going to do

766
00:42:41,760 --> 00:42:45,319
Speaker 1: on archery l hunt in September. You talked about that

767
00:42:45,360 --> 00:42:48,239
Speaker 1: thing where that happens, where it's like you you want

768
00:42:48,280 --> 00:42:50,520
Speaker 1: to be with someone to listen to, even just to

769
00:42:50,560 --> 00:42:53,520
Speaker 1: put in and I like, honestly have a bunch of

770
00:42:53,520 --> 00:42:56,000
Speaker 1: the CDs like to put in his stuff. And here

771
00:42:57,680 --> 00:43:01,839
Speaker 1: Will pretty most explain things right right, He just explains

772
00:43:01,880 --> 00:43:04,799
Speaker 1: things now and then in a way where, um, he

773
00:43:04,880 --> 00:43:08,360
Speaker 1: explains things where I'm jealous that I had thought to

774
00:43:08,400 --> 00:43:11,880
Speaker 1: put it that way, and that it's you're drawn into

775
00:43:12,000 --> 00:43:14,960
Speaker 1: Will and the pre most just it's one of the

776
00:43:14,960 --> 00:43:17,040
Speaker 1: top shows on our network. And it's not They've got

777
00:43:17,080 --> 00:43:19,560
Speaker 1: good production values and they've got a great team. But

778
00:43:19,640 --> 00:43:23,000
Speaker 1: the reality is it's exactly that he just connects with

779
00:43:23,080 --> 00:43:25,920
Speaker 1: the viewer on a very deep let. People are comfortable

780
00:43:25,960 --> 00:43:29,200
Speaker 1: with him, They trust everything he says. He's not just

781
00:43:29,719 --> 00:43:33,120
Speaker 1: schlepping product. He is. Actually he's you know, passionate about

782
00:43:33,160 --> 00:43:36,520
Speaker 1: he's using it, he's developing product. So he's been very

783
00:43:36,520 --> 00:43:38,120
Speaker 1: successful at doing that. One of the things it is

784
00:43:38,160 --> 00:43:41,280
Speaker 1: for me is he likes animals. Yeah, he likes animals.

785
00:43:41,280 --> 00:43:44,160
Speaker 1: He likes knowing about them, he likes being around them.

786
00:43:44,320 --> 00:43:48,600
Speaker 1: For him, animals are not a tool by which to

787
00:43:49,200 --> 00:43:55,399
Speaker 1: secure fame or perceived fortune or something that he kind

788
00:43:55,400 --> 00:43:57,719
Speaker 1: of also a little bit doesn't maybe like that much.

789
00:43:58,680 --> 00:44:02,799
Speaker 1: It's like he loves wildlife and likes to be in

790
00:44:02,880 --> 00:44:05,400
Speaker 1: proximity to it and and all the elements of the

791
00:44:05,480 --> 00:44:09,319
Speaker 1: hunt and the camaraderie and the family and yeah, it's

792
00:44:09,480 --> 00:44:12,280
Speaker 1: and likes talking to them. You don't speak the language.

793
00:44:12,280 --> 00:44:15,440
Speaker 1: Things like he's real it's just a cool slogan and

794
00:44:15,480 --> 00:44:19,160
Speaker 1: tricking him. Yeah, if humanity were to end and all

795
00:44:19,239 --> 00:44:22,640
Speaker 1: the planet were to die off, except for just Will Primos.

796
00:44:22,719 --> 00:44:26,919
Speaker 1: I think that Will Primos would still go um out

797
00:44:26,960 --> 00:44:31,880
Speaker 1: and observe wildlife. Yeah, I'm getting this. You know, I

798
00:44:32,000 --> 00:44:33,840
Speaker 1: shook the dude's hand with time, and he didn't know

799
00:44:33,880 --> 00:44:35,440
Speaker 1: who I was or what I was doing. It was

800
00:44:35,440 --> 00:44:37,040
Speaker 1: a long time ago, but I'm just getting this and

801
00:44:37,080 --> 00:44:41,239
Speaker 1: listening to his his DVDs. Yeah, Yeah, he's he's a

802
00:44:41,320 --> 00:44:43,520
Speaker 1: he's a good guy and and and you know, an

803
00:44:43,520 --> 00:44:47,319
Speaker 1: amazing businessman too, you know. Um, I'm trying to think

804
00:44:47,640 --> 00:44:52,560
Speaker 1: he tells a story about how he got started um

805
00:44:52,600 --> 00:44:57,000
Speaker 1: making the mouth calls. He used, he used to buy

806
00:44:57,040 --> 00:45:01,279
Speaker 1: condoms for to take it to Latex, And I think

807
00:45:01,280 --> 00:45:03,719
Speaker 1: he tells a story about being I think he I

808
00:45:03,760 --> 00:45:05,239
Speaker 1: think he went and bought it, had to buy some

809
00:45:05,280 --> 00:45:07,879
Speaker 1: condoms and he ran into like the father of one

810
00:45:07,880 --> 00:45:10,520
Speaker 1: of his classmates, and it was so anyway, that was

811
00:45:10,600 --> 00:45:13,799
Speaker 1: before he was buying it commercially in that. But there's

812
00:45:13,920 --> 00:45:18,080
Speaker 1: there's so many little stories like that in this That's

813
00:45:18,120 --> 00:45:19,640
Speaker 1: why I want to spend time in camp with these

814
00:45:19,640 --> 00:45:23,880
Speaker 1: guys to hear more like that. Uh, you brought up

815
00:45:23,880 --> 00:45:26,080
Speaker 1: the idea. I'm not floating as you brought this idea. U.

816
00:45:26,560 --> 00:45:30,200
Speaker 1: UM is hunting TV good or bad for the sport.

817
00:45:31,200 --> 00:45:32,839
Speaker 1: There's a lot of people, there's a lot of people

818
00:45:32,880 --> 00:45:35,000
Speaker 1: who hunt, a lot of people who finished I feel

819
00:45:35,080 --> 00:45:39,360
Speaker 1: that would say it's bad. That's why I brought it.

820
00:45:39,520 --> 00:45:40,960
Speaker 1: I hear it from I hear it from them all

821
00:45:40,960 --> 00:45:42,359
Speaker 1: the time. I want, well, I want to That's why

822
00:45:42,480 --> 00:45:44,359
Speaker 1: I wanted to talk about because I'm interested to hear

823
00:45:44,360 --> 00:45:48,440
Speaker 1: what you all think about it. Um. I I generally

824
00:45:48,440 --> 00:45:52,560
Speaker 1: think it's good, and we at the network worked very

825
00:45:52,560 --> 00:45:54,719
Speaker 1: hard to make sure that it's good in terms of

826
00:45:55,239 --> 00:45:59,239
Speaker 1: the quality that makes it to air, the ethics around it,

827
00:45:59,520 --> 00:46:04,480
Speaker 1: the story telling, the conservation message, the you know, recruitment

828
00:46:04,480 --> 00:46:07,319
Speaker 1: and participation. I think those are all good things. But

829
00:46:07,360 --> 00:46:08,719
Speaker 1: when I talk about the good and the bad and

830
00:46:08,760 --> 00:46:11,120
Speaker 1: the ugly about TV, it's like, well, there's there's other

831
00:46:11,200 --> 00:46:13,319
Speaker 1: sides of it that you know, people don't care for.

832
00:46:13,520 --> 00:46:17,000
Speaker 1: If you're a Western big game hunter, you don't like

833
00:46:17,080 --> 00:46:19,120
Speaker 1: to see some of the things that you know your

834
00:46:19,600 --> 00:46:22,560
Speaker 1: your colleagues might do and and a big part of

835
00:46:22,560 --> 00:46:25,279
Speaker 1: the market. Does you know there's there's people who don't

836
00:46:25,280 --> 00:46:27,919
Speaker 1: like predator hunting, you know, or just you know it's

837
00:46:28,000 --> 00:46:32,760
Speaker 1: not for or Africa hunting. You know, there's that's very polarizing. Um,

838
00:46:32,800 --> 00:46:38,320
Speaker 1: you know, part of our programmatic mix. UM. So in general,

839
00:46:38,360 --> 00:46:40,359
Speaker 1: I think it's good, but I thought it'd be something

840
00:46:40,400 --> 00:46:42,960
Speaker 1: worthy of discussing because you know, there are there are

841
00:46:43,000 --> 00:46:45,400
Speaker 1: those who who who don't think it is that this

842
00:46:45,480 --> 00:46:49,120
Speaker 1: is um, this is a personal sport, and that it

843
00:46:49,160 --> 00:46:52,439
Speaker 1: doesn't belong on TV. I think it's done a lot

844
00:46:52,520 --> 00:46:55,680
Speaker 1: to help promote hunting, and when it's done properly, it's

845
00:46:55,680 --> 00:46:58,680
Speaker 1: a very good thing. Yeah, if I was the imagine,

846
00:46:58,800 --> 00:47:02,560
Speaker 1: like if I was to think of the different criticisms

847
00:47:02,640 --> 00:47:06,560
Speaker 1: I hear, I think that that that's kind of that's

848
00:47:06,560 --> 00:47:11,360
Speaker 1: a big one. It's just that that Thomas mckiner, he

849
00:47:11,400 --> 00:47:14,799
Speaker 1: didn't use it in this in this context, but like

850
00:47:14,840 --> 00:47:18,520
Speaker 1: pissing in the cathedral, you know that it's like this,

851
00:47:18,680 --> 00:47:22,280
Speaker 1: it's this very personal thing. You're in the out of doors,

852
00:47:22,840 --> 00:47:25,239
Speaker 1: you're out you know you're in the outdoors because you're

853
00:47:26,040 --> 00:47:28,120
Speaker 1: someone asked you where why some people say out of

854
00:47:28,160 --> 00:47:30,040
Speaker 1: doors and outdoors. When I grew up as a magazine

855
00:47:30,080 --> 00:47:32,480
Speaker 1: Michigan out of doors, I just got in my head

856
00:47:32,600 --> 00:47:35,200
Speaker 1: out of doors. When you're in the outdoors in nature,

857
00:47:35,400 --> 00:47:42,080
Speaker 1: it's like this personal experience you're having and some people

858
00:47:42,600 --> 00:47:47,560
Speaker 1: feel that too film it is, to film it and

859
00:47:47,600 --> 00:47:50,839
Speaker 1: put it out there for distribution, it's kind of like sacrilegious.

860
00:47:51,160 --> 00:47:54,120
Speaker 1: There's like the whole point of it is that it's

861
00:47:54,360 --> 00:47:57,000
Speaker 1: private and self contained and it's something that you live

862
00:47:57,000 --> 00:47:59,360
Speaker 1: and experience in your own space and in your own head.

863
00:48:00,120 --> 00:48:04,680
Speaker 1: To take that and package it for consumption and put

864
00:48:04,719 --> 00:48:08,640
Speaker 1: like a personality behind it, it just it strikes him

865
00:48:08,640 --> 00:48:11,960
Speaker 1: as being a little bit offensive. And I think that

866
00:48:12,120 --> 00:48:15,239
Speaker 1: of the other things, like the other criticism, I'll have

867
00:48:15,320 --> 00:48:16,839
Speaker 1: people come and be like, oh, it's you know, it's

868
00:48:16,840 --> 00:48:19,000
Speaker 1: all an infomercial, right, And I think you can kind

869
00:48:19,000 --> 00:48:23,080
Speaker 1: of explain that by talking about what the model of

870
00:48:23,120 --> 00:48:25,320
Speaker 1: it is, like, like how it works, how it's funded.

871
00:48:25,640 --> 00:48:27,680
Speaker 1: But the and I don't even really pay attention to

872
00:48:27,719 --> 00:48:29,239
Speaker 1: that one. But the one that does strike me is

873
00:48:29,280 --> 00:48:32,080
Speaker 1: that one where it's just like it's sacrilegious. And I

874
00:48:32,120 --> 00:48:34,520
Speaker 1: think that, uh, the reason that speaks me a little

875
00:48:34,560 --> 00:48:38,759
Speaker 1: bit is because it is something that, um, it is

876
00:48:38,800 --> 00:48:42,680
Speaker 1: something that that I do like that part of me

877
00:48:42,760 --> 00:48:45,200
Speaker 1: feels right like there there's there's like push and pull

878
00:48:45,239 --> 00:48:48,520
Speaker 1: inside everyone's head. And I think even my own brothers

879
00:48:48,520 --> 00:48:50,960
Speaker 1: who I grew up hunting and fishing with and there

880
00:48:50,960 --> 00:48:53,920
Speaker 1: are two of the most dedicated hunters and fishermen that

881
00:48:54,000 --> 00:48:57,719
Speaker 1: I know. Uh, they just out of the box, were

882
00:48:57,840 --> 00:49:07,600
Speaker 1: deeply suspicious of my involvement in doing outdoor television writing

883
00:49:07,640 --> 00:49:12,880
Speaker 1: about it. Supportive of that, right, they felt that aesthetically,

884
00:49:13,480 --> 00:49:15,680
Speaker 1: that's like okay, but then look at the deep history

885
00:49:15,680 --> 00:49:17,680
Speaker 1: of it, like people have been writing about it since

886
00:49:18,160 --> 00:49:21,879
Speaker 1: people were writing, so there's like there's a trajectory there,

887
00:49:21,920 --> 00:49:25,200
Speaker 1: there's like a thing that's like for hundred plus years

888
00:49:25,280 --> 00:49:28,319
Speaker 1: more well, I mean, the it's kind of funny how

889
00:49:28,320 --> 00:49:30,080
Speaker 1: deep it goes because if you go back and look

890
00:49:30,120 --> 00:49:37,000
Speaker 1: at the oldest known representational art in Europe is people

891
00:49:37,840 --> 00:49:40,560
Speaker 1: while aren't right writing the story of their hunt on

892
00:49:40,600 --> 00:49:44,200
Speaker 1: a cave wall. So it's something that it's like acceptable

893
00:49:44,239 --> 00:49:47,799
Speaker 1: because there's something very personal and intimate about writing. But

894
00:49:47,880 --> 00:49:50,319
Speaker 1: to them it was kind of like you're gonna do

895
00:49:50,400 --> 00:49:55,319
Speaker 1: what all right, film it and then put out your

896
00:49:55,360 --> 00:49:59,960
Speaker 1: innermost personal experiences out for like why would they want to? Why?

897
00:50:00,360 --> 00:50:03,520
Speaker 1: You know, just a suspicion man. And I haven't fully

898
00:50:03,560 --> 00:50:05,840
Speaker 1: and I haven't fully I've never really found like a

899
00:50:05,960 --> 00:50:12,640
Speaker 1: really great way of countering I haven't found like a

900
00:50:12,719 --> 00:50:15,560
Speaker 1: great way of countering the argument. There's something people say

901
00:50:15,760 --> 00:50:18,000
Speaker 1: and I'm I always look forward to him saying it

902
00:50:18,040 --> 00:50:20,719
Speaker 1: because you can you can tear their argument apart so

903
00:50:20,960 --> 00:50:23,400
Speaker 1: easy that it's almost fun. But that one is not

904
00:50:23,480 --> 00:50:25,239
Speaker 1: one I really look forward to taking now because I

905
00:50:25,239 --> 00:50:27,239
Speaker 1: have to kind of say, like, if you feel that way,

906
00:50:27,680 --> 00:50:29,640
Speaker 1: I'm probably not going to change your opinion about it.

907
00:50:29,760 --> 00:50:32,240
Speaker 1: I'd like, I'd like if you watch the show, but

908
00:50:32,440 --> 00:50:35,480
Speaker 1: in your show could change that person's opinion. But there

909
00:50:35,480 --> 00:50:37,799
Speaker 1: are others and they're they're not wrong for it. That

910
00:50:37,840 --> 00:50:41,800
Speaker 1: wouldn't because there it's more of a character driven hunting show,

911
00:50:41,840 --> 00:50:43,560
Speaker 1: and it is kind of a hey, you know, look

912
00:50:43,560 --> 00:50:45,719
Speaker 1: at me. Michael wat L is a very passionate U

913
00:50:45,960 --> 00:50:48,319
Speaker 1: you know, hunting that, but he's a character. People watch

914
00:50:48,440 --> 00:50:51,120
Speaker 1: him because they're they're curious about, you know, what he's

915
00:50:51,120 --> 00:50:53,200
Speaker 1: gonna say and how how he acts in that. Very

916
00:50:53,239 --> 00:50:58,399
Speaker 1: different than um you know, UM Sportsman's channel is we've

917
00:50:58,440 --> 00:51:00,920
Speaker 1: differentiated the networks a little bit. Our outdoor channel is

918
00:51:01,000 --> 00:51:06,560
Speaker 1: more UM general entertainment talent driven type content, where Sportsmen,

919
00:51:06,640 --> 00:51:09,320
Speaker 1: because a lot of our magazines have driven that content,

920
00:51:09,840 --> 00:51:13,520
Speaker 1: is more editorial style. It's less about the talent and

921
00:51:13,560 --> 00:51:16,720
Speaker 1: more about the the art, and so our our viewers

922
00:51:16,920 --> 00:51:21,040
Speaker 1: are different that way. And interestingly enough, UM, I remember

923
00:51:21,040 --> 00:51:25,319
Speaker 1: that the exact number, but it's probably around like of

924
00:51:25,320 --> 00:51:30,280
Speaker 1: our magazine readers actually watch the network the TV because

925
00:51:30,280 --> 00:51:33,520
Speaker 1: it's a different it's just a different type of consumer.

926
00:51:33,680 --> 00:51:37,319
Speaker 1: If I'm going to read UM Guns and Ammo, it's

927
00:51:37,360 --> 00:51:40,120
Speaker 1: because I'm interested in guns and AMMO and I'm gonna

928
00:51:40,120 --> 00:51:42,400
Speaker 1: go I want to go deep. If I'm going to

929
00:51:42,520 --> 00:51:46,880
Speaker 1: watch um The gun Father on Outdoor Channel, it's because

930
00:51:47,080 --> 00:51:50,360
Speaker 1: I want to be generally entertained. It's not because necessarima

931
00:51:50,440 --> 00:51:53,320
Speaker 1: firem enthusiasts. So so when someone says, you know, I

932
00:51:53,360 --> 00:51:56,040
Speaker 1: think it's a very personal thing, they're right. For them,

933
00:51:56,120 --> 00:51:59,560
Speaker 1: it is, But for millions of others it's not. It's

934
00:51:59,600 --> 00:52:03,239
Speaker 1: it's inspiration all they're they're learning. As you're gonna say,

935
00:52:03,239 --> 00:52:05,400
Speaker 1: it's it's very hard to generalize too. And we have

936
00:52:05,440 --> 00:52:08,400
Speaker 1: two hundred different producers and a lot of different shows,

937
00:52:08,440 --> 00:52:11,160
Speaker 1: so you know, I could tell you that, yeah, Um,

938
00:52:11,400 --> 00:52:14,080
Speaker 1: your show is is very personal for people, and they

939
00:52:14,160 --> 00:52:16,799
Speaker 1: you know, they whereas some of the others, you know,

940
00:52:17,120 --> 00:52:19,719
Speaker 1: not so much. It's just about that hunt and and

941
00:52:20,239 --> 00:52:23,880
Speaker 1: huge audiences like those shows too, So there's no right

942
00:52:23,960 --> 00:52:26,880
Speaker 1: or wrong answer either. No, the aspirational stuff is big

943
00:52:26,920 --> 00:52:31,240
Speaker 1: because we get so many notes from people who watch

944
00:52:32,760 --> 00:52:36,319
Speaker 1: the show. I'm sure, oh, show any show and then

945
00:52:36,480 --> 00:52:39,600
Speaker 1: and then say that like say to themselves, I'm going

946
00:52:39,640 --> 00:52:41,960
Speaker 1: to go do that, right, which is cool to hear

947
00:52:42,000 --> 00:52:45,120
Speaker 1: about um, and and it's like it's nice to know

948
00:52:45,280 --> 00:52:49,080
Speaker 1: that that there's that inspiring aspect of right and as

949
00:52:49,080 --> 00:52:52,560
Speaker 1: in everything, there's also flips side of that where you're like, man,

950
00:52:52,680 --> 00:52:55,919
Speaker 1: so tags just got even a little bit harder to draw.

951
00:52:56,960 --> 00:52:59,720
Speaker 1: We used to get we get and Montana's are unique

952
00:53:00,280 --> 00:53:03,080
Speaker 1: and so Wardens would generate a lot of feedback. And

953
00:53:03,200 --> 00:53:06,560
Speaker 1: I remember, I've probably saved him. I should send you

954
00:53:06,600 --> 00:53:09,480
Speaker 1: some of them. Uh. You know, the locals in Montana

955
00:53:09,520 --> 00:53:13,200
Speaker 1: did not like the Warden show because you're showing people

956
00:53:13,280 --> 00:53:15,840
Speaker 1: where we you know, all of our great hunting. We

957
00:53:15,880 --> 00:53:18,040
Speaker 1: don't like non residents. Keep them out of here. You

958
00:53:18,080 --> 00:53:20,560
Speaker 1: don't pay taxes in Montana. You shouldn't be hunting here

959
00:53:20,560 --> 00:53:23,880
Speaker 1: as I really, I mean, so, um, we got some

960
00:53:23,880 --> 00:53:28,480
Speaker 1: pretty good gredging tourist state. I've always said, yeah it is.

961
00:53:28,560 --> 00:53:32,239
Speaker 1: We've had interesting, interesting experiences there too, just trying to

962
00:53:32,280 --> 00:53:35,440
Speaker 1: operate a show for um six years in Montana. I

963
00:53:35,440 --> 00:53:39,560
Speaker 1: mean there there was resistance, yeah, from the general population,

964
00:53:39,640 --> 00:53:43,480
Speaker 1: and there's also people who who absolutely loved it, but

965
00:53:44,080 --> 00:53:46,080
Speaker 1: not everybody. Ye, A lot of people hate any kind

966
00:53:46,080 --> 00:53:48,360
Speaker 1: of incursion into their own thing. We try to be

967
00:53:48,400 --> 00:53:53,759
Speaker 1: really respectful, uh, in any kind of public land situation,

968
00:53:54,000 --> 00:53:56,080
Speaker 1: which is the bulk of ours. Yeah, the bulk of

969
00:53:56,120 --> 00:53:59,600
Speaker 1: ourself is filmed on public land, and we have certain

970
00:54:00,040 --> 00:54:06,080
Speaker 1: like lines we don't cross in terms of not blowing

971
00:54:06,080 --> 00:54:09,920
Speaker 1: a spot out. But that criticism is extended even like

972
00:54:09,960 --> 00:54:12,480
Speaker 1: that kind of thing is extended way outside of just

973
00:54:14,480 --> 00:54:18,160
Speaker 1: hunting television or fishing television. Because in the ski world,

974
00:54:18,600 --> 00:54:22,200
Speaker 1: the surf world, I'm sure probably in the mountain biking thing.

975
00:54:22,520 --> 00:54:25,080
Speaker 1: It's like there's people who feel passionate and do it.

976
00:54:25,480 --> 00:54:28,520
Speaker 1: They look at representations of it like public outputting. They're

977
00:54:28,520 --> 00:54:31,879
Speaker 1: already suspicious of public output people putting the experience out

978
00:54:31,880 --> 00:54:34,279
Speaker 1: for public asumption, and the first thing that's gonna jump

979
00:54:34,280 --> 00:54:37,520
Speaker 1: in their mind is you're gonna send the masses to

980
00:54:37,640 --> 00:54:41,520
Speaker 1: my spot. And when it comes to things like a

981
00:54:41,719 --> 00:54:47,719
Speaker 1: particular break to a surfer or a particular meadow, that's

982
00:54:47,760 --> 00:54:50,279
Speaker 1: real man. It's like people are talking about like, oh,

983
00:54:50,280 --> 00:54:54,160
Speaker 1: you're gonna ruin you know, tourism is gonna ruin Paris. Right,

984
00:54:54,200 --> 00:54:56,960
Speaker 1: You're talking about like millions of people and you're adding

985
00:54:57,040 --> 00:54:59,080
Speaker 1: some number more and it's hard to track it. But

986
00:54:59,160 --> 00:55:02,080
Speaker 1: if you've got like a little meadow, it's easily identified.

987
00:55:02,239 --> 00:55:05,480
Speaker 1: Easily identified. One dude ruins it. So get this. So

988
00:55:05,760 --> 00:55:07,960
Speaker 1: coming off of I cast my wife and I did

989
00:55:07,960 --> 00:55:11,640
Speaker 1: some fishing to two short stories from their one Mark Davis,

990
00:55:11,640 --> 00:55:15,000
Speaker 1: who does Penn's Big Water Adventures, Big Salt Water, great show,

991
00:55:15,280 --> 00:55:18,919
Speaker 1: great character, Penn pen reels, Yeah, pen reel so um

992
00:55:18,920 --> 00:55:20,680
Speaker 1: my and Mark goes all over the world fishing and

993
00:55:21,640 --> 00:55:23,319
Speaker 1: he had somebody come up to him at the show

994
00:55:23,360 --> 00:55:24,879
Speaker 1: and they said, you know you gotta come down here.

995
00:55:24,920 --> 00:55:27,320
Speaker 1: We got red fish and Mars like do you like you?

996
00:55:27,560 --> 00:55:29,680
Speaker 1: And guy was just selling him on the quality of

997
00:55:29,719 --> 00:55:32,040
Speaker 1: the fishery and the giant fish and how amazing it was.

998
00:55:32,160 --> 00:55:34,120
Speaker 1: Mars like, do you do you like your fisher You

999
00:55:34,200 --> 00:55:36,400
Speaker 1: like how it does? Then I'm not going to go

1000
00:55:36,480 --> 00:55:40,279
Speaker 1: there because if he goes there, everybody else will go there.

1001
00:55:40,320 --> 00:55:42,640
Speaker 1: Not to show, but like people will show up and

1002
00:55:42,680 --> 00:55:45,920
Speaker 1: it can have a significant impact on the fishery. And

1003
00:55:45,920 --> 00:55:48,640
Speaker 1: the example I'll give you is my wife and I

1004
00:55:48,640 --> 00:55:52,279
Speaker 1: fished with Carter Andrews. After I cast and we um,

1005
00:55:52,640 --> 00:55:55,480
Speaker 1: we can we found these red ant chovies, these giants

1006
00:55:55,520 --> 00:55:57,480
Speaker 1: schools a red ant chovies really cool and like the

1007
00:55:57,520 --> 00:56:00,279
Speaker 1: size of a football field, and there was ar been

1008
00:56:00,440 --> 00:56:05,120
Speaker 1: rolling in them, and um, we've we did a Facebook

1009
00:56:05,160 --> 00:56:08,640
Speaker 1: live event and I caught a tarp in the next

1010
00:56:08,719 --> 00:56:11,480
Speaker 1: day in that in that um And apparently two or

1011
00:56:11,520 --> 00:56:15,640
Speaker 1: three days later, there's like nine boats off this area

1012
00:56:15,680 --> 00:56:18,920
Speaker 1: because people recognize the bridge or whatever. We probably they

1013
00:56:18,960 --> 00:56:21,319
Speaker 1: knew we were off the Virile Virile beach and it's like,

1014
00:56:21,360 --> 00:56:24,280
Speaker 1: you know, that was just some minor social media exposure

1015
00:56:24,280 --> 00:56:26,319
Speaker 1: and all of a sudden, it's like, I mean I

1016
00:56:26,400 --> 00:56:29,000
Speaker 1: was gone already, but they had continued fishing, and they're like, yeah,

1017
00:56:29,040 --> 00:56:31,120
Speaker 1: when they showed up, there were already three boats on it.

1018
00:56:31,239 --> 00:56:34,439
Speaker 1: Two other boats came in. The word is out, yeah,

1019
00:56:34,520 --> 00:56:36,319
Speaker 1: but but here's but that's the funny. That's the kind

1020
00:56:36,320 --> 00:56:38,320
Speaker 1: of the point I'll make it too, is the word

1021
00:56:38,960 --> 00:56:44,840
Speaker 1: there's three people right, like that is that's the tipping point, right,

1022
00:56:44,880 --> 00:56:46,839
Speaker 1: and but then that that's that spot is like done.

1023
00:56:46,840 --> 00:56:48,359
Speaker 1: It I mean there's too much pressure now and it's

1024
00:56:48,400 --> 00:56:50,799
Speaker 1: like everything moves off. But on a on a more

1025
00:56:50,840 --> 00:56:54,600
Speaker 1: positive note though, um, there's when you go to a

1026
00:56:54,600 --> 00:56:57,360
Speaker 1: tackle shop. It's probably the same in Montana where you

1027
00:56:57,480 --> 00:56:59,759
Speaker 1: go to a fly shop, but the word gets out,

1028
00:57:00,440 --> 00:57:03,479
Speaker 1: like you know, whopper ploppers is a is a top

1029
00:57:03,560 --> 00:57:06,640
Speaker 1: water bait and you can't find him around here because

1030
00:57:06,640 --> 00:57:09,239
Speaker 1: somebody started catching fish on whopper poppers And now all

1031
00:57:09,280 --> 00:57:12,600
Speaker 1: the stores are sold out. So you'll go in across

1032
00:57:12,600 --> 00:57:16,720
Speaker 1: the country and like rapp Las headquartered here in Minneapolis, um,

1033
00:57:16,800 --> 00:57:20,600
Speaker 1: and they sell countdowns use like just original floating rapplers,

1034
00:57:20,720 --> 00:57:23,560
Speaker 1: and in one store they can't keep them in stock,

1035
00:57:23,960 --> 00:57:26,919
Speaker 1: and then another story they can't sell them because it's

1036
00:57:26,920 --> 00:57:29,800
Speaker 1: just some guy locally had success on it. And people

1037
00:57:29,840 --> 00:57:31,920
Speaker 1: just start hearing what and the and the tackle guys

1038
00:57:31,920 --> 00:57:35,800
Speaker 1: starts you know there there starts moving him. So as

1039
00:57:35,800 --> 00:57:37,919
Speaker 1: a community we are we do a lot of word

1040
00:57:37,920 --> 00:57:39,400
Speaker 1: of mouth, I think, So you right, it has a

1041
00:57:39,440 --> 00:57:43,040
Speaker 1: downside where you can you can really have an impact.

1042
00:57:43,960 --> 00:57:46,720
Speaker 1: The criticism so high. They're like if you do something

1043
00:57:46,800 --> 00:57:50,560
Speaker 1: like if if a person in the outdoor media does

1044
00:57:50,640 --> 00:57:53,640
Speaker 1: something where you reveal that people are pissed. But then

1045
00:57:53,640 --> 00:57:55,680
Speaker 1: if you go to any you know, you go to

1046
00:57:55,720 --> 00:57:58,760
Speaker 1: any mountain town, right, and you go with a local

1047
00:57:58,800 --> 00:58:00,520
Speaker 1: fly shop, they put a say in which board what

1048
00:58:00,520 --> 00:58:02,080
Speaker 1: do you call a little things like that. I love

1049
00:58:02,200 --> 00:58:04,200
Speaker 1: that they put like a little board out on the

1050
00:58:04,240 --> 00:58:07,000
Speaker 1: sidewalk that says where the bite is and what they're

1051
00:58:07,000 --> 00:58:10,120
Speaker 1: biting on. I think that you get rock Creek squalles.

1052
00:58:10,400 --> 00:58:12,840
Speaker 1: I think it's brilliant because exactly, you know, if you're

1053
00:58:12,840 --> 00:58:16,040
Speaker 1: a retailer, you you need people to have success, you know, so,

1054
00:58:16,200 --> 00:58:18,000
Speaker 1: and that's that's what like, But no one goes and

1055
00:58:18,080 --> 00:58:19,919
Speaker 1: kicks the door. Maybe the dude, do people get pissed

1056
00:58:19,920 --> 00:58:24,080
Speaker 1: at flashops were sending everybody where the hot bite is. Yeah,

1057
00:58:24,160 --> 00:58:27,840
Speaker 1: but at the same time big information to I think

1058
00:58:27,920 --> 00:58:31,400
Speaker 1: also a creek. It's like, Okay, I know this guy

1059
00:58:31,480 --> 00:58:34,680
Speaker 1: is telling me this. Probably just told the last people

1060
00:58:34,760 --> 00:58:37,640
Speaker 1: that we We were over in the Henry's Fork this year.

1061
00:58:38,360 --> 00:58:41,960
Speaker 1: UM ran over there to uh fish, you know, the

1062
00:58:42,000 --> 00:58:46,240
Speaker 1: salmon flies were coming off on the Henry's Fork and uh,

1063
00:58:46,400 --> 00:58:48,120
Speaker 1: some of the guys I was with there like we

1064
00:58:48,160 --> 00:58:50,200
Speaker 1: gotta go int the fly shop and I gotta pick

1065
00:58:50,280 --> 00:58:52,440
Speaker 1: up a few things. I said, Okay, no matter what,

1066
00:58:54,400 --> 00:58:56,840
Speaker 1: this stretch that I want to fish is what we're

1067
00:58:56,840 --> 00:59:00,360
Speaker 1: gonna fish, and that's what your intell like, I do

1068
00:59:00,440 --> 00:59:04,880
Speaker 1: not care what these guys think, So of course we

1069
00:59:05,000 --> 00:59:08,080
Speaker 1: end up fishing the stretch that the guys at the

1070
00:59:08,080 --> 00:59:11,960
Speaker 1: fly shop told us to fish, and I was just

1071
00:59:12,160 --> 00:59:15,480
Speaker 1: in a bad mood the whole time we get down there.

1072
00:59:15,680 --> 00:59:20,520
Speaker 1: There's more trailers at the put in than I've ever seen.

1073
00:59:20,560 --> 00:59:26,440
Speaker 1: The people running shuttles on the river have like two

1074
00:59:26,480 --> 00:59:30,120
Speaker 1: fifteen passenger vans out of shuttle shuttle drivers because they're

1075
00:59:30,120 --> 00:59:32,600
Speaker 1: moving more boats and trailers on the stretch than they

1076
00:59:32,600 --> 00:59:35,640
Speaker 1: ever have. And I'm like, folks, this is this is

1077
00:59:35,640 --> 00:59:38,320
Speaker 1: what a sucker looks like. That's unique to fly fish

1078
00:59:38,360 --> 00:59:40,680
Speaker 1: because bass fishermen lie. I mean, they'll come off the

1079
00:59:40,720 --> 00:59:43,280
Speaker 1: water and do you what'd you catch your fish on? Oh?

1080
00:59:43,320 --> 00:59:46,400
Speaker 1: You know, we were fishing crank bits and deep weel lines,

1081
00:59:46,440 --> 00:59:48,880
Speaker 1: and of course they're fishing like worms on docks. They'll

1082
00:59:48,920 --> 00:59:51,880
Speaker 1: lie about everything, but the fly shops will, you know,

1083
00:59:51,920 --> 00:59:54,440
Speaker 1: I don't know if they embellish, but I appreciate it

1084
00:59:54,440 --> 00:59:56,320
Speaker 1: when they do. As a but I can see how

1085
00:59:57,040 --> 00:59:58,800
Speaker 1: you're gonna You're gonna stack that river up in that

1086
00:59:58,800 --> 01:00:01,760
Speaker 1: section because they're telling everybody. I was standing there with

1087
01:00:01,800 --> 01:00:05,080
Speaker 1: a body mine one time years ago and we had

1088
01:00:05,160 --> 01:00:11,240
Speaker 1: just skinned to bear. It was spring, spring season and

1089
01:00:11,280 --> 01:00:13,880
Speaker 1: we're coming out a logging road and a guy pulls

1090
01:00:14,000 --> 01:00:16,240
Speaker 1: up and he looks at my buddies pants and says,

1091
01:00:16,280 --> 01:00:20,280
Speaker 1: to him, looks like someone got one. And he still

1092
01:00:20,280 --> 01:00:22,040
Speaker 1: looked some straight in the face as well, it's just

1093
01:00:22,080 --> 01:00:26,200
Speaker 1: some old rabbit blood, you know. And it's like awkward

1094
01:00:26,200 --> 01:00:30,280
Speaker 1: because everyone knows that it's just not true. And it

1095
01:00:30,400 --> 01:00:33,560
Speaker 1: was kind of like more it was almost more painful

1096
01:00:33,600 --> 01:00:35,800
Speaker 1: to me than if he had just said Like I

1097
01:00:35,840 --> 01:00:37,640
Speaker 1: would have been irritated if he had said it, but

1098
01:00:37,680 --> 01:00:41,840
Speaker 1: it was more painful to me to have a standing lie, right,

1099
01:00:42,680 --> 01:00:47,000
Speaker 1: Like I have a difficult time like if someone says, hey,

1100
01:00:47,040 --> 01:00:51,280
Speaker 1: how is the fishing, um, I find I find myself

1101
01:00:51,480 --> 01:00:55,040
Speaker 1: trying to not lie. But then you know, but oh

1102
01:00:55,080 --> 01:00:59,400
Speaker 1: it's okay, I got a couple, right, I can't just

1103
01:00:59,480 --> 01:01:02,880
Speaker 1: be like nothing. One factor was something of it, Yeah,

1104
01:01:03,240 --> 01:01:08,040
Speaker 1: because yeah, you wind up trying to be like not

1105
01:01:08,160 --> 01:01:11,200
Speaker 1: a horrible person, but then also you want to serve

1106
01:01:11,760 --> 01:01:15,680
Speaker 1: your own purposes a little bit. We're so fortunate Minnesota.

1107
01:01:15,800 --> 01:01:18,800
Speaker 1: Like there bass fishing. If you like catching bass, I

1108
01:01:18,800 --> 01:01:23,240
Speaker 1: mean that they that saying is I think God put

1109
01:01:23,320 --> 01:01:25,360
Speaker 1: bass on the earth so everyone could catch a fish,

1110
01:01:25,840 --> 01:01:29,080
Speaker 1: and muskies to separate the men from the boys. So

1111
01:01:29,080 --> 01:01:30,919
Speaker 1: we're gonna go muskie fishing tonight, but if we want,

1112
01:01:30,960 --> 01:01:34,920
Speaker 1: we catch bass. And you can catch bass on every lake, yeah, exactly,

1113
01:01:35,040 --> 01:01:39,160
Speaker 1: every single well, every lake in Minnesota has bass in it.

1114
01:01:39,240 --> 01:01:41,840
Speaker 1: And they're they're not that smart, and they're they're fun.

1115
01:01:42,040 --> 01:01:47,560
Speaker 1: And so I'm all, I'm all about participation, growing participation,

1116
01:01:47,680 --> 01:01:50,400
Speaker 1: taking kids out, taking friends out. I love to take

1117
01:01:50,440 --> 01:01:52,840
Speaker 1: them hunting and fishing. So I'm I'm an open book

1118
01:01:52,840 --> 01:01:54,400
Speaker 1: when it comes to and I also like on my

1119
01:01:54,440 --> 01:01:56,720
Speaker 1: social media, I'll post when I don't have success because

1120
01:01:56,720 --> 01:01:59,400
Speaker 1: otherwise people think, well, you know that I only they

1121
01:01:59,440 --> 01:02:02,080
Speaker 1: don't underst and that we don't always go out and

1122
01:02:02,080 --> 01:02:05,680
Speaker 1: and and catch tons of fish. Um. I've been able

1123
01:02:05,720 --> 01:02:08,240
Speaker 1: to fish by myself more this. I've got three young boys,

1124
01:02:08,280 --> 01:02:11,840
Speaker 1: so it's normally I'm not ever by myself between friends, family,

1125
01:02:11,880 --> 01:02:14,360
Speaker 1: and work. But when I go on my own, I'll

1126
01:02:14,360 --> 01:02:17,800
Speaker 1: go and I'll explore new water or new techniques and

1127
01:02:17,840 --> 01:02:20,520
Speaker 1: I won't have success. But you know, we're gonna fish

1128
01:02:20,520 --> 01:02:22,840
Speaker 1: a spot tonight that I found when I was looking

1129
01:02:22,880 --> 01:02:26,240
Speaker 1: for small moth beeds and I ended up finding a

1130
01:02:26,240 --> 01:02:30,640
Speaker 1: giant muskie area. So what do you call the area?

1131
01:02:30,760 --> 01:02:32,480
Speaker 1: This was just a weed bed, so it was and

1132
01:02:32,560 --> 01:02:34,560
Speaker 1: it was the water was crystal clear, and I was

1133
01:02:34,880 --> 01:02:36,600
Speaker 1: I just kind of drifted over and I looked down

1134
01:02:36,600 --> 01:02:39,360
Speaker 1: and it looked like a railroad tie laying on the bottom.

1135
01:02:39,720 --> 01:02:42,720
Speaker 1: And yeah, well that's how I found that one. But

1136
01:02:42,920 --> 01:02:45,040
Speaker 1: you'll see a lot of them. And in the summer

1137
01:02:45,040 --> 01:02:47,320
Speaker 1: when the water is really hot. We don't generally target

1138
01:02:47,360 --> 01:02:50,720
Speaker 1: them when the water attempts are way high, right, and uh,

1139
01:02:50,880 --> 01:02:53,000
Speaker 1: but they'll they'll they'll be kind of lethargic. They'll be

1140
01:02:53,040 --> 01:02:54,960
Speaker 1: up in shallow water, just kind of sunning. You can.

1141
01:02:55,160 --> 01:02:56,960
Speaker 1: You can boat up to them and poke them with

1142
01:02:56,960 --> 01:03:00,200
Speaker 1: your rod and they'll swim off, but they won't eat.

1143
01:03:00,200 --> 01:03:02,640
Speaker 1: Then you know they're not they're not catchable. They're just

1144
01:03:03,000 --> 01:03:05,680
Speaker 1: not in that kind of pattern. I was kind of Uh.

1145
01:03:05,800 --> 01:03:09,400
Speaker 1: I went fishing with Matt Elliott from bench Man. You

1146
01:03:09,440 --> 01:03:12,080
Speaker 1: have to like, but he's a yeah, yeah. He served

1147
01:03:12,080 --> 01:03:16,200
Speaker 1: Matt Elliott his uh first ever bass sandwich. Oh nice,

1148
01:03:17,600 --> 01:03:21,160
Speaker 1: A hobby what do you call it? An amateur competition

1149
01:03:21,240 --> 01:03:25,440
Speaker 1: bass fisherman who had never eating a small mouth sandwich.

1150
01:03:25,560 --> 01:03:29,320
Speaker 1: He had a little small tear rolling down his cheek.

1151
01:03:30,200 --> 01:03:33,440
Speaker 1: Oh no, yeah, he's just wiping that tuter sauce off

1152
01:03:32,840 --> 01:03:35,200
Speaker 1: and he didn't want his wife to realize that they

1153
01:03:35,200 --> 01:03:39,240
Speaker 1: were good. But some of those the rigs, you know,

1154
01:03:39,320 --> 01:03:41,680
Speaker 1: so I was super asking a bunch of questions, and

1155
01:03:41,760 --> 01:03:44,720
Speaker 1: I never get a fish with that stuff going through.

1156
01:03:44,800 --> 01:03:48,200
Speaker 1: She drop shot. That is exactly what I was going on.

1157
01:03:48,680 --> 01:03:53,400
Speaker 1: There are some rigs that these bass guys tie up

1158
01:03:54,080 --> 01:03:57,720
Speaker 1: that I just wouldn't fish with, purely for the fact

1159
01:03:58,040 --> 01:04:00,960
Speaker 1: because I'd be like, well, of horse, you're gonna catch

1160
01:04:01,000 --> 01:04:06,800
Speaker 1: fish with it? Like, of course that isn't that the goal? Yeah,

1161
01:04:06,920 --> 01:04:10,160
Speaker 1: but if if there's a foregone conclusion, I'm just not

1162
01:04:10,320 --> 01:04:13,920
Speaker 1: that into it. Musty things super appealing because but the

1163
01:04:14,000 --> 01:04:17,960
Speaker 1: drop shot thing, I'm like, well, when years ago when

1164
01:04:18,000 --> 01:04:20,160
Speaker 1: I started hearing I do want to get back to

1165
01:04:20,160 --> 01:04:22,000
Speaker 1: what we're talking about. But years ago, when I started

1166
01:04:22,040 --> 01:04:26,200
Speaker 1: hearing people say drop shotting, I was picturing I don't

1167
01:04:26,200 --> 01:04:30,400
Speaker 1: know what else picturing. I was pictured some I just

1168
01:04:30,560 --> 01:04:33,400
Speaker 1: heard it. I thought it must be some elaborate right,

1169
01:04:34,720 --> 01:04:38,840
Speaker 1: eighteen knots and you know, crazy things running off here

1170
01:04:38,840 --> 01:04:40,960
Speaker 1: and there or whatever. And then when I saw them, like,

1171
01:04:41,120 --> 01:04:43,440
Speaker 1: that's what drop shotting is. But my man, does that

1172
01:04:43,480 --> 01:04:46,400
Speaker 1: work good? Oh my god? How can it not? I mean,

1173
01:04:46,440 --> 01:04:49,640
Speaker 1: I guess that's yeah, But yeah, I guess I would

1174
01:04:49,680 --> 01:04:51,720
Speaker 1: skew more towards the musky side of things because I

1175
01:04:51,720 --> 01:04:57,960
Speaker 1: want want experience, you want casts. Yeah, that's it's not

1176
01:04:58,000 --> 01:05:00,560
Speaker 1: for everyone, So that it is. You have to enjoy

1177
01:05:00,760 --> 01:05:03,760
Speaker 1: the journey and everything else around it, just like it's

1178
01:05:03,760 --> 01:05:06,840
Speaker 1: a difference between gun hunting and bow hunting. You know,

1179
01:05:06,960 --> 01:05:09,480
Speaker 1: the success rates not that high, but you still do

1180
01:05:09,520 --> 01:05:12,120
Speaker 1: it because you're you're you're passionate about it and it's

1181
01:05:12,120 --> 01:05:15,080
Speaker 1: not always about that kill. It's about the big picture

1182
01:05:15,120 --> 01:05:19,320
Speaker 1: and being outdoors gets me more days in the woods.

1183
01:05:19,360 --> 01:05:26,320
Speaker 1: So in uh, in outdoor TV and hunting TV, are

1184
01:05:26,320 --> 01:05:29,760
Speaker 1: there lines that cannot be crossed? Surely if a producer

1185
01:05:29,800 --> 01:05:32,320
Speaker 1: turned into thing where he was hunting panda bears, you

1186
01:05:32,360 --> 01:05:36,200
Speaker 1: guys would be like, you know what, um, I'm not

1187
01:05:36,240 --> 01:05:39,600
Speaker 1: gonna be running in that episode. We have we have

1188
01:05:40,240 --> 01:05:43,280
Speaker 1: very strict guidelines and we have a quality control team

1189
01:05:43,360 --> 01:05:46,560
Speaker 1: that that enforces those and the producers are aware of those.

1190
01:05:46,720 --> 01:05:48,680
Speaker 1: If you're an independent producer, you don't want to spend

1191
01:05:48,680 --> 01:05:51,800
Speaker 1: thousands of dollars on something that's not going to make

1192
01:05:51,840 --> 01:05:55,680
Speaker 1: it to air. So so it's pretty buttoned up, I

1193
01:05:55,720 --> 01:05:58,680
Speaker 1: would say, but yeah, we have we have lines, you know,

1194
01:05:58,760 --> 01:06:02,480
Speaker 1: we we have we want to protect the sport, and

1195
01:06:02,520 --> 01:06:04,840
Speaker 1: so there's things in their safety issues. You know, we

1196
01:06:04,880 --> 01:06:08,240
Speaker 1: don't want to show things that are unethical or unsafe.

1197
01:06:08,280 --> 01:06:12,080
Speaker 1: We don't allow blue sky shots. So you enforce ethics, yes,

1198
01:06:13,120 --> 01:06:16,800
Speaker 1: like beyond law, yes, we I mean, our our guidelines

1199
01:06:16,840 --> 01:06:19,240
Speaker 1: say you need to follow the laws, and then you

1200
01:06:19,280 --> 01:06:21,800
Speaker 1: also need to follow up some of the general safety.

1201
01:06:21,840 --> 01:06:24,920
Speaker 1: It's not a you know, obviously anything that's illegal is

1202
01:06:24,920 --> 01:06:27,160
Speaker 1: is not allowed on you know, you have to follow

1203
01:06:27,200 --> 01:06:30,360
Speaker 1: all game laws and and and and if there's violations,

1204
01:06:30,400 --> 01:06:35,080
Speaker 1: we are very strict and how we enforce those. Talk

1205
01:06:35,120 --> 01:06:36,880
Speaker 1: about some of the things that have happened recently with

1206
01:06:36,920 --> 01:06:39,280
Speaker 1: hosts getting in uh, with hosts getting in the hot water.

1207
01:06:39,760 --> 01:06:42,960
Speaker 1: I can think of three off top of my head. Yeah, well,

1208
01:06:42,960 --> 01:06:45,000
Speaker 1: in the in the last three, yeah, I mean, our

1209
01:06:45,040 --> 01:06:47,680
Speaker 1: actions were pretty swift and pretty consistent. We've do you

1210
01:06:47,720 --> 01:06:50,520
Speaker 1: mind laying out the story of what happened, Um, and

1211
01:06:50,680 --> 01:06:54,800
Speaker 1: just broad brushstrokes in um like in the case of

1212
01:06:55,320 --> 01:06:59,720
Speaker 1: Chris Brackett for Fear No Evil. UM, Yeah, you know

1213
01:06:59,760 --> 01:07:03,440
Speaker 1: it's uh. First of all, I told you that, you know,

1214
01:07:03,480 --> 01:07:05,720
Speaker 1: I have a lot of respect for the people that

1215
01:07:05,760 --> 01:07:07,960
Speaker 1: I work with in these producers, and Chris was one

1216
01:07:08,000 --> 01:07:12,000
Speaker 1: of them. Because Chris started with nothing. He was a postman,

1217
01:07:12,080 --> 01:07:13,880
Speaker 1: and he had a dream and he had a passion

1218
01:07:13,920 --> 01:07:17,520
Speaker 1: and he I saw a video that Chris sent to

1219
01:07:17,680 --> 01:07:20,560
Speaker 1: Pat Reeve and it was essentially a demo and said, hey, Pat,

1220
01:07:20,640 --> 01:07:22,760
Speaker 1: I love what you do at Hunter specially I want

1221
01:07:22,760 --> 01:07:26,080
Speaker 1: to get into this space. And you know, so to

1222
01:07:26,200 --> 01:07:30,120
Speaker 1: see what happened was disappointing in a couple of because

1223
01:07:32,040 --> 01:07:35,280
Speaker 1: the incident that happened in Indiana happened it's like five

1224
01:07:35,360 --> 01:07:38,600
Speaker 1: years ago now a right, so that the where where

1225
01:07:38,600 --> 01:07:42,240
Speaker 1: he shot two dear um and you know, you put

1226
01:07:42,320 --> 01:07:45,280
Speaker 1: himself had ta had a take for one shot one,

1227
01:07:45,320 --> 01:07:47,880
Speaker 1: you know, and there's there's questions around that too because

1228
01:07:47,920 --> 01:07:50,200
Speaker 1: he had a camera guy with him and and people

1229
01:07:50,200 --> 01:07:52,880
Speaker 1: don't know the whole story. You know, they did tag

1230
01:07:53,320 --> 01:07:56,640
Speaker 1: the first dear that that that he shot, and you know,

1231
01:07:56,680 --> 01:08:00,600
Speaker 1: so there's there's nothing there, there's no really don't know

1232
01:08:00,640 --> 01:08:02,720
Speaker 1: the details of the story. I'm not I'm not like

1233
01:08:02,800 --> 01:08:05,680
Speaker 1: being coy. Yeah, I really don't know the details of

1234
01:08:05,680 --> 01:08:07,880
Speaker 1: the story. And what what the only thing people know

1235
01:08:07,960 --> 01:08:09,600
Speaker 1: is from what they saw in the video is that,

1236
01:08:09,680 --> 01:08:11,919
Speaker 1: you know, a deer came out and he shot the deer,

1237
01:08:12,000 --> 01:08:14,680
Speaker 1: and then another one came out and he shot that one,

1238
01:08:14,760 --> 01:08:17,439
Speaker 1: and you know, and he says he wasn't sure he

1239
01:08:17,439 --> 01:08:20,880
Speaker 1: shot this first one, and there's and it's all speculation

1240
01:08:21,280 --> 01:08:24,559
Speaker 1: on that. So so yes, you know, to take you

1241
01:08:24,640 --> 01:08:26,760
Speaker 1: through that. So when I heard I saw the video

1242
01:08:26,800 --> 01:08:29,280
Speaker 1: and that, you know, I was disappointed. I mean, you know,

1243
01:08:29,320 --> 01:08:32,080
Speaker 1: disappointed on a human level. And I was. I was

1244
01:08:32,160 --> 01:08:35,080
Speaker 1: you know, Chris Head has evolved and had already evolved.

1245
01:08:35,120 --> 01:08:37,439
Speaker 1: He's a changed man from what he was four years ago.

1246
01:08:37,840 --> 01:08:40,639
Speaker 1: And people think that, you know, he went through this

1247
01:08:40,680 --> 01:08:43,240
Speaker 1: and then found God, and Chris was actually had had

1248
01:08:43,240 --> 01:08:47,040
Speaker 1: already transformed his faith life. But he's human. We're all human.

1249
01:08:47,120 --> 01:08:49,920
Speaker 1: So he made a mistake. And then another video comes

1250
01:08:49,960 --> 01:08:53,040
Speaker 1: up about him, you know, be rating a camera guy

1251
01:08:53,080 --> 01:08:55,880
Speaker 1: and it's like I've I've been there before. I've never

1252
01:08:56,280 --> 01:08:58,280
Speaker 1: never be rated a camera guy like that. But you know,

1253
01:08:58,720 --> 01:09:01,760
Speaker 1: Chris put a lot of pressure on himself back four

1254
01:09:01,840 --> 01:09:04,320
Speaker 1: years ago when he made that second shot to try

1255
01:09:04,360 --> 01:09:07,720
Speaker 1: to produce something, you know, to and and he made

1256
01:09:07,720 --> 01:09:10,600
Speaker 1: a mistake and he's paid a pretty significant price for it.

1257
01:09:10,640 --> 01:09:13,400
Speaker 1: I mean, he we removed that we find out about it,

1258
01:09:13,479 --> 01:09:17,120
Speaker 1: you know there um um, there's some questions that we

1259
01:09:17,200 --> 01:09:19,200
Speaker 1: had to do a little bit of research and you know,

1260
01:09:19,240 --> 01:09:21,320
Speaker 1: and talk to Chris and talked to others about it,

1261
01:09:21,360 --> 01:09:26,720
Speaker 1: but we pulled the show immediately. Decision No, it's you know,

1262
01:09:26,760 --> 01:09:29,479
Speaker 1: we have guidelines. It was tough on a human level

1263
01:09:29,680 --> 01:09:31,800
Speaker 1: because you know, I care for my producers, I care

1264
01:09:31,840 --> 01:09:34,240
Speaker 1: for Chris, and I've felt bad for him, and I

1265
01:09:34,240 --> 01:09:35,760
Speaker 1: don't want to you know, I don't want to pull

1266
01:09:35,760 --> 01:09:37,720
Speaker 1: the rug out. This is his career, this is what

1267
01:09:37,800 --> 01:09:42,000
Speaker 1: he's built up. But um so um yeah. And then

1268
01:09:42,080 --> 01:09:44,720
Speaker 1: you know, ultimately, yeah, with the show just you know,

1269
01:09:45,000 --> 01:09:48,479
Speaker 1: he lost some sponsored support. And and Chris is a guy.

1270
01:09:48,600 --> 01:09:50,639
Speaker 1: He's he's a he's a he's got a great heart.

1271
01:09:50,720 --> 01:09:52,920
Speaker 1: You know, I've had him at my home with my

1272
01:09:53,040 --> 01:09:55,200
Speaker 1: kids and he's great with my kids and that, and

1273
01:09:55,640 --> 01:09:57,720
Speaker 1: he made a mistake and it and it cost him.

1274
01:09:58,240 --> 01:10:01,400
Speaker 1: I think it costs more than than it probably should have.

1275
01:10:01,920 --> 01:10:04,519
Speaker 1: But if then if he was a private individual, yeah,

1276
01:10:04,640 --> 01:10:08,080
Speaker 1: oh yeah, absolutely private individual, this would have been. First

1277
01:10:08,080 --> 01:10:10,439
Speaker 1: of all, he's he's never been charged with anything, so

1278
01:10:10,479 --> 01:10:13,599
Speaker 1: he he just lost his career. He didn't, he doesn't

1279
01:10:13,640 --> 01:10:17,280
Speaker 1: get a ticket. He hasn't. There's nothing has become of it,

1280
01:10:17,320 --> 01:10:20,840
Speaker 1: and nothing probably will other than he's lost his livelihood

1281
01:10:21,360 --> 01:10:24,679
Speaker 1: as a TV host. And it's interested in the three

1282
01:10:24,720 --> 01:10:31,320
Speaker 1: cases that I'm thinking of, which, uh, the three cases

1283
01:10:31,360 --> 01:10:33,640
Speaker 1: I'm thinking of where we're hunting show personality has been

1284
01:10:33,640 --> 01:10:35,600
Speaker 1: in trouble, have been in trouble around these issues of

1285
01:10:35,640 --> 01:10:42,040
Speaker 1: shooting something and then shooting something else. I think the

1286
01:10:42,080 --> 01:10:46,200
Speaker 1: thing you hear about it, I think you hear about

1287
01:10:46,200 --> 01:10:48,800
Speaker 1: the people fear is people are like, oh, being in

1288
01:10:48,800 --> 01:10:52,519
Speaker 1: that situation where you're this you know, hunting celebrity, which

1289
01:10:52,520 --> 01:10:56,200
Speaker 1: is a term people hate. Right, There's this hunting celebrity

1290
01:10:56,200 --> 01:11:01,320
Speaker 1: and they're under such pressure to um, they're under such

1291
01:11:01,439 --> 01:11:05,280
Speaker 1: pressure to like get that big buck in order to

1292
01:11:05,280 --> 01:11:09,720
Speaker 1: become more famous, that they're putting these situations where they

1293
01:11:09,760 --> 01:11:15,599
Speaker 1: have poor judgment because they're trying to service business, right,

1294
01:11:16,080 --> 01:11:20,960
Speaker 1: which would sort of imply that that violations and getting

1295
01:11:20,960 --> 01:11:23,880
Speaker 1: in trouble is sort of just like only happens in

1296
01:11:24,800 --> 01:11:28,479
Speaker 1: out door TV, which we all know that it certainly doesn't.

1297
01:11:28,720 --> 01:11:30,160
Speaker 1: And there's a lot of guys are getting a lot

1298
01:11:30,240 --> 01:11:32,360
Speaker 1: of trouble all the time who are not putting it out.

1299
01:11:32,400 --> 01:11:35,120
Speaker 1: But it's the thing I think that people feel. Another

1300
01:11:35,120 --> 01:11:37,080
Speaker 1: thing I think people feel from the other side is

1301
01:11:37,800 --> 01:11:43,599
Speaker 1: um people like to make examples of people, you know,

1302
01:11:44,160 --> 01:11:47,400
Speaker 1: so when someone gets in trouble for something like that,

1303
01:11:48,600 --> 01:11:50,679
Speaker 1: you know, especially who's in the public eye they get

1304
01:11:50,680 --> 01:11:54,200
Speaker 1: in troubled or something like that, it gets quickly amplified

1305
01:11:55,200 --> 01:12:00,400
Speaker 1: where people are very ready. And and chriss As he

1306
01:12:01,000 --> 01:12:03,920
Speaker 1: had a polarizing brand. You loved him or you didn't.

1307
01:12:04,120 --> 01:12:07,040
Speaker 1: You know, he had his catch line of buoya when

1308
01:12:07,080 --> 01:12:10,760
Speaker 1: you shoot a deer, very passionate about it. You either

1309
01:12:10,880 --> 01:12:14,000
Speaker 1: loved it or you didn't. And uh, for every viewer feedback,

1310
01:12:14,040 --> 01:12:16,720
Speaker 1: I got people saying they didn't like Chris Brackett, I

1311
01:12:16,760 --> 01:12:18,640
Speaker 1: got ten that said they loved him. You know, so

1312
01:12:19,120 --> 01:12:21,280
Speaker 1: because people found a defensive that kind of like like

1313
01:12:21,680 --> 01:12:23,439
Speaker 1: they just didn't like, you know, they didn't want they

1314
01:12:23,479 --> 01:12:25,960
Speaker 1: didn't connect with them. And so so that you know,

1315
01:12:26,080 --> 01:12:28,120
Speaker 1: you get the keyboard warriors, and you know they they'll

1316
01:12:28,160 --> 01:12:31,040
Speaker 1: go off on him. So so when that incident happened,

1317
01:12:31,400 --> 01:12:34,280
Speaker 1: it essentially made all of his detractors right. They kept

1318
01:12:34,320 --> 01:12:37,240
Speaker 1: and they came out and and I would tell you it, um,

1319
01:12:37,479 --> 01:12:41,080
Speaker 1: it was disappointing. I love this industry. I love the

1320
01:12:41,160 --> 01:12:43,880
Speaker 1: hunting industry, the fishing industry and that, but we are

1321
01:12:44,080 --> 01:12:47,080
Speaker 1: fast to consume each other when something like that happens.

1322
01:12:47,160 --> 01:12:51,320
Speaker 1: And and there were people that seemed to take pleasure

1323
01:12:51,680 --> 01:12:54,439
Speaker 1: out of taking him down, and that was heartbreaking. I

1324
01:12:54,520 --> 01:12:56,280
Speaker 1: was looking at the thing the other day involved in

1325
01:12:56,320 --> 01:13:00,840
Speaker 1: an acquaintance of mine where something no one knows, something

1326
01:13:00,880 --> 01:13:03,080
Speaker 1: may or may not have happened. I didn't really looked

1327
01:13:03,120 --> 01:13:05,960
Speaker 1: into it yet, but I've heard not a television person,

1328
01:13:06,160 --> 01:13:09,920
Speaker 1: just a person that maybe got sideways with law a

1329
01:13:09,960 --> 01:13:12,200
Speaker 1: little bit. And man, there's a lot of people rooting

1330
01:13:12,280 --> 01:13:16,240
Speaker 1: that he did, hoping that he did within the industry,

1331
01:13:16,439 --> 01:13:20,880
Speaker 1: like just people aware, just like the the cannibalization. And

1332
01:13:20,960 --> 01:13:22,800
Speaker 1: I think that, but I think in these case, in

1333
01:13:22,920 --> 01:13:25,080
Speaker 1: some of these cases where it would be like it'd

1334
01:13:25,080 --> 01:13:28,040
Speaker 1: be interesting because there's this other case. Are you will

1335
01:13:28,160 --> 01:13:31,000
Speaker 1: are you willing to talk about an instance that involves

1336
01:13:31,000 --> 01:13:38,640
Speaker 1: an individual whose initials are t v UM on on

1337
01:13:38,720 --> 01:13:44,200
Speaker 1: our network. Um, I don't know who it is, right,

1338
01:13:46,720 --> 01:13:49,479
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, we talk about Sorry, I thought you were

1339
01:13:49,520 --> 01:13:52,320
Speaker 1: talking currents. So that's a old one. But it's just

1340
01:13:52,400 --> 01:13:56,200
Speaker 1: an interesting case study, right in something that winds up.

1341
01:13:57,840 --> 01:13:59,800
Speaker 1: Let's just talk in general terms because I don't know

1342
01:14:00,439 --> 01:14:04,000
Speaker 1: what my limitations out in that situation. So in general terms,

1343
01:14:04,200 --> 01:14:08,400
Speaker 1: it was an someone made, a person made an accident, Okay,

1344
01:14:09,000 --> 01:14:12,280
Speaker 1: a person had a what I from having done a

1345
01:14:12,320 --> 01:14:14,640
Speaker 1: lot of hunting, a thing that I regard to be

1346
01:14:15,840 --> 01:14:21,720
Speaker 1: something that could happen to anyone, meaning you, let's just

1347
01:14:21,760 --> 01:14:26,560
Speaker 1: set different situations where you see a deer, there's a

1348
01:14:26,600 --> 01:14:28,880
Speaker 1: buck standing there, and you shoot, but you go over

1349
01:14:28,920 --> 01:14:32,200
Speaker 1: there's two bucks or two dear, because there's one behind

1350
01:14:32,240 --> 01:14:34,679
Speaker 1: it that you were bedded down up a little rise

1351
01:14:34,760 --> 01:14:37,720
Speaker 1: that you were unaware of. That could happen to anyone, right,

1352
01:14:37,920 --> 01:14:40,960
Speaker 1: Or a situation being that here's a buck, you shoot,

1353
01:14:41,320 --> 01:14:43,519
Speaker 1: the buck goes down. Also in the buck stands back

1354
01:14:43,600 --> 01:14:47,760
Speaker 1: up again, doing the right thing to shoot again, but

1355
01:14:47,880 --> 01:14:51,639
Speaker 1: you go over in his two bucks. Now, in those cases,

1356
01:14:51,840 --> 01:14:56,160
Speaker 1: even if you are a hunting celebrity, I think in

1357
01:14:56,400 --> 01:15:00,280
Speaker 1: those cases, were you to self report r I Field.

1358
01:15:00,320 --> 01:15:03,679
Speaker 1: You probably wouldn't lose your show. No, you probably wouldn't

1359
01:15:03,760 --> 01:15:08,680
Speaker 1: get skewered. You might even get rewarded is really the

1360
01:15:08,720 --> 01:15:13,400
Speaker 1: wrong term. But people might recognize the step you took

1361
01:15:13,760 --> 01:15:19,280
Speaker 1: right and decide not to skier you and try to

1362
01:15:19,360 --> 01:15:22,360
Speaker 1: destroy you. We've had positive cases where that happened. You know,

1363
01:15:22,439 --> 01:15:26,200
Speaker 1: Pigman had an incident in in Oklahoma. Um. You know,

1364
01:15:26,280 --> 01:15:28,320
Speaker 1: first of game laws are complicated, right, and I think

1365
01:15:28,400 --> 01:15:31,360
Speaker 1: he was in an area, UM, I don't remember the specifics,

1366
01:15:31,479 --> 01:15:33,960
Speaker 1: but you know he handed up I think shooting a

1367
01:15:34,040 --> 01:15:36,599
Speaker 1: hand turkey or something, and and he wasn't in a unit.

1368
01:15:36,680 --> 01:15:39,800
Speaker 1: He had to take hit. He had everything, he thought

1369
01:15:39,840 --> 01:15:41,800
Speaker 1: he had everything right, and he didn't. He owned up

1370
01:15:41,840 --> 01:15:43,920
Speaker 1: to it. He paid a small fine. It was it

1371
01:15:44,040 --> 01:15:47,880
Speaker 1: was an honest mistake. Whereas you know, in some of

1372
01:15:47,920 --> 01:15:50,000
Speaker 1: these cases you're talking about, the cover up is always

1373
01:15:50,080 --> 01:15:53,320
Speaker 1: worse than worse than the crime. And it's something I learned.

1374
01:15:53,439 --> 01:15:55,400
Speaker 1: You know, I've never had an inner in any kind

1375
01:15:55,439 --> 01:15:58,160
Speaker 1: of like that with with a warden, but filming wardens

1376
01:15:58,240 --> 01:16:02,320
Speaker 1: for six or seven years, you always gotta you gotta

1377
01:16:02,400 --> 01:16:06,320
Speaker 1: the The only answer is to come clean fast and completely.

1378
01:16:06,760 --> 01:16:09,560
Speaker 1: And that's your because these wardens are not out to

1379
01:16:09,640 --> 01:16:13,080
Speaker 1: get you. People make mistakes, they have a lot of

1380
01:16:13,160 --> 01:16:16,120
Speaker 1: latitude and what they can do. But if they know

1381
01:16:16,439 --> 01:16:20,919
Speaker 1: that you're being deceptive, You're You're done. There's no more sympathy.

1382
01:16:20,960 --> 01:16:23,240
Speaker 1: I mean you will, you will get whatever it is

1383
01:16:23,960 --> 01:16:27,880
Speaker 1: that you and they'll and the time they figure it out.

1384
01:16:28,320 --> 01:16:32,120
Speaker 1: So in some of these cases, um, um, yeah, you

1385
01:16:32,680 --> 01:16:34,720
Speaker 1: just have to own up to it because no, absolutely

1386
01:16:35,040 --> 01:16:37,519
Speaker 1: people make mistakes. But yes, if it's a case where

1387
01:16:37,600 --> 01:16:41,040
Speaker 1: you blatantly disregarded the law and wasted gain, you know

1388
01:16:41,200 --> 01:16:45,519
Speaker 1: that that's going to have deep and immediate ramificing. And

1389
01:16:45,880 --> 01:16:50,720
Speaker 1: that's what really seems like. Um, that's really seems like

1390
01:16:50,880 --> 01:16:55,920
Speaker 1: lead people into a very troubled path is the cover up.

1391
01:16:56,040 --> 01:16:58,320
Speaker 1: And and in that situation, you're making this kind of

1392
01:16:58,360 --> 01:17:02,120
Speaker 1: like quick decision. You're like, the was a chance if

1393
01:17:02,160 --> 01:17:05,479
Speaker 1: I just hide this right, covered up, there's a chance

1394
01:17:05,520 --> 01:17:10,599
Speaker 1: that nothing happens. The man is that seductive. But there's

1395
01:17:10,600 --> 01:17:14,800
Speaker 1: also the chance that everything that the world as I

1396
01:17:14,920 --> 01:17:21,240
Speaker 1: know it could end right. And by going the route

1397
01:17:21,400 --> 01:17:24,759
Speaker 1: of being like Mr Game warden, I made a mistake,

1398
01:17:26,280 --> 01:17:30,439
Speaker 1: there's gonna be there. There will be ramification, but total

1399
01:17:30,520 --> 01:17:35,640
Speaker 1: annihilation of oneself isn't probably in the mix. Now we

1400
01:17:35,720 --> 01:17:39,559
Speaker 1: have hun TV. Kurt Wells was in Canada years ago

1401
01:17:39,920 --> 01:17:43,160
Speaker 1: and I think a llegal moose was like fifty and

1402
01:17:43,520 --> 01:17:46,240
Speaker 1: he shot a moose and it was like forty nine

1403
01:17:46,600 --> 01:17:50,800
Speaker 1: and three quarters. I mean, you can't, you can't. And

1404
01:17:50,920 --> 01:17:52,919
Speaker 1: it was a good shot. I think it was a bowshot.

1405
01:17:53,000 --> 01:17:55,920
Speaker 1: He was like forty yards or something. And he self

1406
01:17:56,000 --> 01:18:00,599
Speaker 1: reported and um and paid a fine. It's an US mistake.

1407
01:18:00,680 --> 01:18:02,439
Speaker 1: It was, you know, he and the and the guide

1408
01:18:02,560 --> 01:18:05,240
Speaker 1: they judged it to be a legal ball and it

1409
01:18:05,400 --> 01:18:08,160
Speaker 1: wasn't same deal. You know, he could have he could

1410
01:18:08,160 --> 01:18:10,040
Speaker 1: have hid that, but no, he you know, did the

1411
01:18:10,160 --> 01:18:13,160
Speaker 1: right thing. Self reported, made that part of the story.

1412
01:18:13,280 --> 01:18:16,400
Speaker 1: He lost the trophy. I just I think it's made

1413
01:18:16,520 --> 01:18:18,920
Speaker 1: part of the story. Yeah, that's great. It was the story.

1414
01:18:19,040 --> 01:18:21,840
Speaker 1: You know, we gotta, we gotta. That's gotta be the story.

1415
01:18:21,880 --> 01:18:23,720
Speaker 1: We gotta. The story has to be do the right thing.

1416
01:18:23,840 --> 01:18:26,960
Speaker 1: And we actually in our guidelines, you know, you have

1417
01:18:27,080 --> 01:18:28,680
Speaker 1: to follow the law, but we we want to hold

1418
01:18:28,720 --> 01:18:31,519
Speaker 1: our host to a higher standard because we are being

1419
01:18:31,600 --> 01:18:35,200
Speaker 1: watched by everybody, and so you know, we always advised

1420
01:18:35,240 --> 01:18:37,320
Speaker 1: people don't don't you know, you know the rules, you

1421
01:18:37,680 --> 01:18:39,760
Speaker 1: need to follow them. You need to have license, you

1422
01:18:39,840 --> 01:18:43,360
Speaker 1: need to wear blaze orange. Where's blaze orange? Because right

1423
01:18:43,400 --> 01:18:47,680
Speaker 1: now law enforcement watches outdoor TV and they look for violations.

1424
01:18:48,840 --> 01:18:51,880
Speaker 1: We've had cases of that as well. We had award

1425
01:18:52,000 --> 01:18:54,280
Speaker 1: tell us what state we're in. We're The guy said, uh,

1426
01:18:55,160 --> 01:18:56,120
Speaker 1: you know, I don't need to be out of the

1427
01:18:56,160 --> 01:19:00,680
Speaker 1: field anymore. I got Facebook. Yeah I don't, so you

1428
01:19:00,720 --> 01:19:04,720
Speaker 1: know I was in Kentucky all right. The wardens said

1429
01:19:04,760 --> 01:19:08,160
Speaker 1: that Game Wars just you know, I'm sure partially joking,

1430
01:19:08,960 --> 01:19:10,439
Speaker 1: was like, I don't need to drive around anymore. I

1431
01:19:10,479 --> 01:19:13,640
Speaker 1: got Facebook. I had a uh you know Oregon. Uh,

1432
01:19:14,400 --> 01:19:17,880
Speaker 1: state troopers or game wardens, and some are supposed to

1433
01:19:17,920 --> 01:19:21,080
Speaker 1: be more game wardens than state troopers. But at a

1434
01:19:21,600 --> 01:19:28,120
Speaker 1: state trooper in eastern Oregon basically say that, Um, that's

1435
01:19:28,200 --> 01:19:32,040
Speaker 1: that's how he's made all all of his recent bus

1436
01:19:32,160 --> 01:19:36,840
Speaker 1: We're all through social media well and also just going

1437
01:19:36,920 --> 01:19:39,680
Speaker 1: to the local bar, I mean Montana. The wardens, they

1438
01:19:39,880 --> 01:19:43,280
Speaker 1: are successful. The most successful wardens are have very good

1439
01:19:43,320 --> 01:19:46,360
Speaker 1: local networks, and so because they know they've got fourner

1440
01:19:46,400 --> 01:19:49,120
Speaker 1: square miles are covering, they can't be everywhere, but they're

1441
01:19:49,120 --> 01:19:52,320
Speaker 1: sure here a lot because most guys who are poaching

1442
01:19:52,760 --> 01:19:55,280
Speaker 1: go to the bar and talk about it, and they're

1443
01:19:55,280 --> 01:19:58,640
Speaker 1: competitive to ye, and they have they have their own territories.

1444
01:19:58,680 --> 01:20:01,080
Speaker 1: That's what this guy was saying. And so a lot

1445
01:20:01,200 --> 01:20:04,200
Speaker 1: of the information that they get would be from other

1446
01:20:04,320 --> 01:20:07,519
Speaker 1: poachers being like, yeah, hey, I found this buck on

1447
01:20:07,600 --> 01:20:08,880
Speaker 1: the side of the road with the ted cut off.

1448
01:20:08,960 --> 01:20:10,920
Speaker 1: You're gonna do something about it. Got a pretty good,

1449
01:20:11,000 --> 01:20:15,320
Speaker 1: pretty good idea who it is. Yeah, it's like drug

1450
01:20:15,400 --> 01:20:19,680
Speaker 1: dealer shooting drug dealers exactly. Uh. I had another on

1451
01:20:19,800 --> 01:20:22,000
Speaker 1: that same trip, I think, Yeah, it's the same trip

1452
01:20:22,080 --> 01:20:23,479
Speaker 1: where the guy was saying, I don't need it, I

1453
01:20:23,560 --> 01:20:26,880
Speaker 1: have Facebook. Another thing that he's Another thing that he

1454
01:20:27,000 --> 01:20:28,640
Speaker 1: said to me that I thought was interesting is he

1455
01:20:28,720 --> 01:20:36,960
Speaker 1: doesn't like suppressors now um, and his argument against suppressors

1456
01:20:37,680 --> 01:20:42,000
Speaker 1: is the gun shot is a very important tool for him.

1457
01:20:42,920 --> 01:20:45,720
Speaker 1: And he was saying, as it gets when he's bow

1458
01:20:45,840 --> 01:20:48,400
Speaker 1: hunting and it starts getting close to rifle season, he

1459
01:20:48,479 --> 01:20:55,200
Speaker 1: can't finish a night in his tree stand because and

1460
01:20:55,280 --> 01:20:59,320
Speaker 1: he's like something about that, something about that shot, and

1461
01:20:59,400 --> 01:21:01,320
Speaker 1: he's done out was tree stand singing over and that

1462
01:21:01,479 --> 01:21:03,880
Speaker 1: you know, getting his truck going on that direction and uh,

1463
01:21:03,960 --> 01:21:07,519
Speaker 1: and that was his like criticism of suppressors. Yeah, I

1464
01:21:07,600 --> 01:21:10,920
Speaker 1: found it suppressing. It's I like it. You know, I

1465
01:21:11,000 --> 01:21:14,080
Speaker 1: followed a love and so I'm not trying to They're great, Yeah,

1466
01:21:14,240 --> 01:21:16,000
Speaker 1: they're great, but I never looked at it from them.

1467
01:21:16,040 --> 01:21:18,679
Speaker 1: I look at it from the perspective of quiet. Yeah,

1468
01:21:18,960 --> 01:21:21,360
Speaker 1: but he looked at it from perspective of he wants

1469
01:21:21,400 --> 01:21:24,200
Speaker 1: to know what's going on on the and you know

1470
01:21:24,280 --> 01:21:26,760
Speaker 1: they you can still hear them, but yes, you can't

1471
01:21:26,800 --> 01:21:31,120
Speaker 1: hear it like a like a right. It was. Yeah,

1472
01:21:31,160 --> 01:21:32,800
Speaker 1: it was the thing that I had. It was the

1473
01:21:32,880 --> 01:21:35,000
Speaker 1: thing I had considered when when weighing it in like

1474
01:21:35,040 --> 01:21:36,640
Speaker 1: all these different states and sort of like weighing what

1475
01:21:36,720 --> 01:21:39,960
Speaker 1: the relationship will be to two people being to use suppressors. Um.

1476
01:21:40,720 --> 01:21:42,879
Speaker 1: You know, I was in Scotland one time. They were shocked.

1477
01:21:43,800 --> 01:21:46,920
Speaker 1: They were shocked you'd be allowed to not use a suppressor. Yeah,

1478
01:21:47,600 --> 01:21:50,840
Speaker 1: because of what does the people's years. I was like, man,

1479
01:21:50,880 --> 01:21:55,519
Speaker 1: you guys use suppressors like you guys don't. It's very

1480
01:21:55,600 --> 01:22:04,400
Speaker 1: different now, um, free content, man, people go on YouTube

1481
01:22:04,439 --> 01:22:06,679
Speaker 1: watch hunting videos all day long and never pay for anything.

1482
01:22:08,080 --> 01:22:14,200
Speaker 1: What's the right what's that spell? Like, what's that when

1483
01:22:14,240 --> 01:22:18,000
Speaker 1: you look into your crystal ball? Um, what are the

1484
01:22:18,080 --> 01:22:21,439
Speaker 1: business challenges there? Or the or what do the what

1485
01:22:21,560 --> 01:22:24,439
Speaker 1: does it mean for the consumer? Yeah, I think there's

1486
01:22:24,560 --> 01:22:28,320
Speaker 1: room for for all of it. I think it's a

1487
01:22:28,439 --> 01:22:32,920
Speaker 1: different product. You know, I consume on my mobile device.

1488
01:22:33,000 --> 01:22:36,800
Speaker 1: I consume short videos whether they're you know, Facebook or

1489
01:22:36,880 --> 01:22:39,040
Speaker 1: YouTube or what have you. But it's very different than

1490
01:22:39,080 --> 01:22:41,680
Speaker 1: the television that I consume, whether it's hunting or not.

1491
01:22:42,000 --> 01:22:45,720
Speaker 1: So every producer you work with does short form content, right, Um,

1492
01:22:46,720 --> 01:22:48,759
Speaker 1: it depends. You know. We we went through this evolution

1493
01:22:48,840 --> 01:22:52,600
Speaker 1: where everybody had to invest in high definition equipment, you know,

1494
01:22:52,760 --> 01:22:55,880
Speaker 1: hundreds of thousands of dollar gear of gear because the

1495
01:22:55,960 --> 01:22:58,240
Speaker 1: idea was we're all going to have nine, you know,

1496
01:22:58,600 --> 01:23:03,000
Speaker 1: flat screens. And now viewers don't seem to care that much.

1497
01:23:03,040 --> 01:23:06,400
Speaker 1: They'll watch crappy video from a cell phone on a

1498
01:23:06,520 --> 01:23:11,120
Speaker 1: cell phone and and it's adequate. So I think that's interesting.

1499
01:23:11,560 --> 01:23:14,000
Speaker 1: So what year was it? When do you remember the

1500
01:23:14,080 --> 01:23:21,040
Speaker 1: timeline of one? Yeah, it was well, I can't remember

1501
01:23:21,080 --> 01:23:25,680
Speaker 1: where it was two thousand eight, two thousand seven to

1502
01:23:25,880 --> 01:23:29,519
Speaker 1: ten years ago. You know, the evolution people started moving

1503
01:23:29,520 --> 01:23:33,280
Speaker 1: towards HD you know, networks weren't carrying channels in HD.

1504
01:23:33,479 --> 01:23:37,840
Speaker 1: Now everything is pretty much an HD um. But the

1505
01:23:38,120 --> 01:23:44,439
Speaker 1: concept of free, I think free ultimately will um hurt

1506
01:23:44,600 --> 01:23:48,800
Speaker 1: the industry because if if it's not valuable, if the

1507
01:23:49,040 --> 01:23:52,759
Speaker 1: it will hurt on the high end of quality. Because

1508
01:23:52,840 --> 01:23:57,400
Speaker 1: if I'm Jim Shocky and people don't don't appreciate the

1509
01:23:57,560 --> 01:24:00,720
Speaker 1: quality that I'm delivering of my TV show because they

1510
01:24:00,760 --> 01:24:04,160
Speaker 1: can watch something for free on YouTube, then advertisers aren't

1511
01:24:04,160 --> 01:24:05,960
Speaker 1: going to support it, and then Jim's just not going

1512
01:24:06,040 --> 01:24:10,920
Speaker 1: to do it. So I think free content um free

1513
01:24:10,960 --> 01:24:13,160
Speaker 1: on the internet has has a has a place, but

1514
01:24:13,240 --> 01:24:16,479
Speaker 1: it's also a very crowded marketplace. Our networks are this

1515
01:24:16,640 --> 01:24:19,800
Speaker 1: are a platform where we have viewers who are trained

1516
01:24:19,920 --> 01:24:21,800
Speaker 1: to turn on the hunting channel they call it. They

1517
01:24:21,880 --> 01:24:23,839
Speaker 1: just they just turn it on and they watch hunting.

1518
01:24:24,240 --> 01:24:26,840
Speaker 1: Whereas if I go to YouTube, you know, first of all,

1519
01:24:26,880 --> 01:24:29,240
Speaker 1: you have to find the right and you can you

1520
01:24:29,280 --> 01:24:31,040
Speaker 1: can narrow it down, you can search and do that,

1521
01:24:31,160 --> 01:24:32,960
Speaker 1: but you find that you sift through a lot of

1522
01:24:33,600 --> 01:24:36,760
Speaker 1: a lot of garbage to find some of the golds,

1523
01:24:37,760 --> 01:24:39,360
Speaker 1: and and it's and it's very I think it'll be

1524
01:24:39,560 --> 01:24:42,640
Speaker 1: very hard. Um. It would be very hard. I've got

1525
01:24:42,720 --> 01:24:44,760
Speaker 1: a son who's got a YouTube channel, right, he's got

1526
01:24:44,920 --> 01:24:48,800
Speaker 1: nineteen followers. How do you, as a as an aspiring

1527
01:24:49,400 --> 01:24:54,240
Speaker 1: outdoor talent build an audience? I mean, television is is

1528
01:24:54,560 --> 01:24:58,439
Speaker 1: still by far the best way to reach a mass.

1529
01:24:58,560 --> 01:25:01,320
Speaker 1: I look at Facebook recently had their issue with UM

1530
01:25:01,560 --> 01:25:04,760
Speaker 1: privacy and uh, you know the data the data issue

1531
01:25:04,800 --> 01:25:07,400
Speaker 1: they had and what they're spending. I've heard at one

1532
01:25:07,400 --> 01:25:10,280
Speaker 1: point it was a million dollars a day on linear

1533
01:25:10,360 --> 01:25:15,320
Speaker 1: television advertising to regain the trust of their user. They

1534
01:25:15,400 --> 01:25:19,919
Speaker 1: have this platform, UM, but they go to linear television

1535
01:25:20,280 --> 01:25:23,200
Speaker 1: to reach that audience. The Super Bowl last year, did

1536
01:25:23,240 --> 01:25:27,120
Speaker 1: you see who the presenting sponsor of the Super Bowl was? YouTube? YouTube?

1537
01:25:27,160 --> 01:25:32,040
Speaker 1: Bread so YouTube. Yeah, so they were the presenting sponsor

1538
01:25:32,080 --> 01:25:34,320
Speaker 1: of the SUPERO they see some value on linear television,

1539
01:25:34,520 --> 01:25:38,000
Speaker 1: I think, you know, I think for any any brand

1540
01:25:38,200 --> 01:25:41,120
Speaker 1: to say there's not value linear television is is UM.

1541
01:25:42,800 --> 01:25:44,960
Speaker 1: I think that's a temporary position. We're already starting to

1542
01:25:45,000 --> 01:25:48,720
Speaker 1: see where digital um. The good news is for an

1543
01:25:48,760 --> 01:25:53,960
Speaker 1: advertiser or brand, there are more and good digital options

1544
01:25:54,320 --> 01:25:56,519
Speaker 1: to get a message out and connect with people. The

1545
01:25:56,560 --> 01:25:58,400
Speaker 1: bad news is it's still not as good as TV,

1546
01:25:58,520 --> 01:26:00,360
Speaker 1: and you need, you need all of it. And the

1547
01:26:00,479 --> 01:26:03,280
Speaker 1: best the best brands have digital, they have print, they

1548
01:26:03,360 --> 01:26:05,920
Speaker 1: have radio, they have billboards, they have TV. You know,

1549
01:26:06,200 --> 01:26:08,280
Speaker 1: we don't always have the luxury in our space to

1550
01:26:08,400 --> 01:26:12,000
Speaker 1: have that that whole breath. But TV by far still

1551
01:26:12,560 --> 01:26:16,800
Speaker 1: delivers the other thing. It delivers. It delivers volume and

1552
01:26:16,960 --> 01:26:20,479
Speaker 1: quality and low risk. Because I might if I want to,

1553
01:26:20,720 --> 01:26:22,560
Speaker 1: if I have a product and I want to advertise,

1554
01:26:22,680 --> 01:26:26,280
Speaker 1: do a digital ad. I don't know where that adds appearing.

1555
01:26:26,360 --> 01:26:28,560
Speaker 1: I don't know if you know if it's appearing on

1556
01:26:28,640 --> 01:26:31,760
Speaker 1: appropriate sites or how that brand is, how my brand

1557
01:26:31,840 --> 01:26:34,240
Speaker 1: is being associated with that unless you know if if

1558
01:26:34,280 --> 01:26:36,760
Speaker 1: you're advertising on our digital platforms where if you're you know,

1559
01:26:36,840 --> 01:26:38,720
Speaker 1: if you have a holster, you know what's appearing on

1560
01:26:38,840 --> 01:26:44,400
Speaker 1: guns and ammos, Facebook or or website. So um, I

1561
01:26:44,479 --> 01:26:48,920
Speaker 1: read an article it was the the national advertising market

1562
01:26:49,400 --> 01:26:52,760
Speaker 1: in in all of television is driven by like two

1563
01:26:53,160 --> 01:26:56,840
Speaker 1: brands like Coca Cola and Unilever brands and all that.

1564
01:26:57,800 --> 01:27:01,120
Speaker 1: So and it's there's there's very little fraud. I mean,

1565
01:27:01,280 --> 01:27:04,479
Speaker 1: you buy advertising, you measure the results, you know how

1566
01:27:04,560 --> 01:27:08,120
Speaker 1: much you're paying, and and it's good and advertising works.

1567
01:27:08,200 --> 01:27:12,120
Speaker 1: We know advertising works, and in digital there are tens

1568
01:27:12,200 --> 01:27:17,160
Speaker 1: of thousands of people UM and and the results are

1569
01:27:17,320 --> 01:27:20,519
Speaker 1: are are highly suspicious, so there's no there's no magic.

1570
01:27:21,200 --> 01:27:25,960
Speaker 1: Yet the allure of digital and free is is strong

1571
01:27:26,120 --> 01:27:28,479
Speaker 1: because it's it's in theory cheaper. I just don't think

1572
01:27:28,520 --> 01:27:30,960
Speaker 1: it's as effective. And some of those big brands are

1573
01:27:31,040 --> 01:27:34,439
Speaker 1: going back to TV because it's more expensive, but it's

1574
01:27:34,960 --> 01:27:37,800
Speaker 1: it's it works and it still works. I think that

1575
01:27:37,880 --> 01:27:42,320
Speaker 1: there's just room for a lot of different things. And

1576
01:27:42,640 --> 01:27:45,560
Speaker 1: I think even if you look within like you know

1577
01:27:46,160 --> 01:27:51,880
Speaker 1: our own organization that I'm involved in, UM, well put

1578
01:27:51,880 --> 01:27:55,480
Speaker 1: it like this. I like to eat very well prepared,

1579
01:27:56,240 --> 01:28:01,439
Speaker 1: elaborate meals sometimes and I also sometimes eat a gas

1580
01:28:01,479 --> 01:28:04,400
Speaker 1: station hot dog, particularly when I was in high school

1581
01:28:04,680 --> 01:28:09,280
Speaker 1: in college. Right, I don't be like man now that

1582
01:28:09,400 --> 01:28:13,439
Speaker 1: gas station hot dogs have come out, UM, I no

1583
01:28:13,600 --> 01:28:17,280
Speaker 1: longer want to eat an elaborate, well prepared meal because

1584
01:28:17,360 --> 01:28:23,639
Speaker 1: it's just different. And so in doing UM, in doing

1585
01:28:23,920 --> 01:28:29,360
Speaker 1: and making content, I look at an episode like like

1586
01:28:29,720 --> 01:28:34,799
Speaker 1: I look at a Mediator episode, it's twenty two minutes

1587
01:28:35,520 --> 01:28:39,960
Speaker 1: where this is not an exaggeration. Every second was look

1588
01:28:40,240 --> 01:28:44,760
Speaker 1: fought over, every second of it, okay, and it requires

1589
01:28:44,800 --> 01:28:50,120
Speaker 1: a certain amount of money to do that. That's like

1590
01:28:50,240 --> 01:28:55,720
Speaker 1: its own thing. Um. I also like a funny cell

1591
01:28:55,760 --> 01:29:00,200
Speaker 1: phone video, right, But they're just very different. And I

1592
01:29:00,280 --> 01:29:04,960
Speaker 1: think right now I'm watching ken Burns is Vietnam series.

1593
01:29:08,040 --> 01:29:10,600
Speaker 1: It takes a lot to put that together, right, It

1594
01:29:10,760 --> 01:29:13,880
Speaker 1: can't be that that that free. Like as great as

1595
01:29:13,920 --> 01:29:16,880
Speaker 1: for YouTube content is, it's just I would hate to

1596
01:29:16,960 --> 01:29:19,680
Speaker 1: live in a world where somehow the pot we were

1597
01:29:19,920 --> 01:29:22,640
Speaker 1: starved of the polished stuff. But I don't think we

1598
01:29:22,720 --> 01:29:25,880
Speaker 1: will become starved of the polished stuff. But I think

1599
01:29:25,920 --> 01:29:28,800
Speaker 1: people keep trying to like force this idea or hoping

1600
01:29:28,880 --> 01:29:33,479
Speaker 1: there's this idea that it's just one version. The polished

1601
01:29:33,640 --> 01:29:37,800
Speaker 1: version will be abandoned and short of the guerrilla version,

1602
01:29:38,200 --> 01:29:40,800
Speaker 1: or the gorilla version will be abandoned and short of

1603
01:29:40,840 --> 01:29:43,920
Speaker 1: the polished version. It's like there's room for all of it. Yeah,

1604
01:29:43,960 --> 01:29:47,080
Speaker 1: And looking ahead, there's a lot of apprehension, you know,

1605
01:29:47,840 --> 01:29:50,439
Speaker 1: about where it's coming from. When when I started out

1606
01:29:50,479 --> 01:29:55,200
Speaker 1: in my career, I was writing for glossy magazines you know, um, which,

1607
01:29:55,320 --> 01:29:57,920
Speaker 1: by the way, I have been dead for over ten years.

1608
01:29:58,000 --> 01:30:00,599
Speaker 1: They were dying when I started. We have seventeen magazines

1609
01:30:00,640 --> 01:30:03,920
Speaker 1: that are that thrive. They're still doing quite well, and

1610
01:30:03,920 --> 01:30:06,400
Speaker 1: they've been they've been declaring that death and and a

1611
01:30:06,479 --> 01:30:08,640
Speaker 1: lot has changed there. I mean I remember having a

1612
01:30:08,720 --> 01:30:11,800
Speaker 1: ten tho dollar travel budget to do a magazine story.

1613
01:30:12,200 --> 01:30:14,840
Speaker 1: Like a lot of that stuffs changed and so came

1614
01:30:14,880 --> 01:30:18,719
Speaker 1: out of magazines and I went into traditional doing traditional books. Okay,

1615
01:30:19,320 --> 01:30:21,840
Speaker 1: and um, there's still a thriving book business. But then

1616
01:30:21,880 --> 01:30:26,600
Speaker 1: people declared that with Amazon, the traditional book you know,

1617
01:30:26,760 --> 01:30:30,400
Speaker 1: the author publisher relationship is no more. That's all gonna die.

1618
01:30:30,760 --> 01:30:37,040
Speaker 1: And I used to live with constant apprehension and fear

1619
01:30:38,120 --> 01:30:41,400
Speaker 1: about the future. But then at those times, they didn't

1620
01:30:41,400 --> 01:30:44,200
Speaker 1: even come up with a podcast yet, right, I didn't

1621
01:30:44,240 --> 01:30:46,040
Speaker 1: know about what I don't know what a podcast podcast

1622
01:30:46,120 --> 01:30:49,120
Speaker 1: was until I went on one. I've just gotten to

1623
01:30:49,200 --> 01:30:53,920
Speaker 1: the point now, after a long time of making things, Um,

1624
01:30:54,360 --> 01:30:56,280
Speaker 1: I've just gotten to the point now where I don't

1625
01:30:56,560 --> 01:31:01,400
Speaker 1: have I've kind of like worked through the fears and

1626
01:31:01,479 --> 01:31:05,680
Speaker 1: now it's become more of a curiosity about huh. I

1627
01:31:05,800 --> 01:31:09,479
Speaker 1: do wonder how all this is sort out, But I

1628
01:31:09,600 --> 01:31:12,000
Speaker 1: do maintain this idea that there will continue to be

1629
01:31:12,200 --> 01:31:14,320
Speaker 1: and I hope and push for it, there will continue

1630
01:31:14,400 --> 01:31:22,479
Speaker 1: to be ways to fund um ways to fund the

1631
01:31:22,680 --> 01:31:25,760
Speaker 1: really like not great in a way that I not

1632
01:31:25,960 --> 01:31:28,080
Speaker 1: mean great in the way that you're passing a value

1633
01:31:28,160 --> 01:31:33,520
Speaker 1: judgment other stuff, but ways to fund very polished, relatively

1634
01:31:33,600 --> 01:31:40,720
Speaker 1: expensive pieces of content that just to my eye really shine. Right. Well,

1635
01:31:40,760 --> 01:31:45,280
Speaker 1: look at TV or programming outside of you know, our industry, right,

1636
01:31:45,360 --> 01:31:48,439
Speaker 1: it's like we're all still whether you're not even if

1637
01:31:48,479 --> 01:31:52,599
Speaker 1: you're not paying for cable anymore, you're paying for Netflix

1638
01:31:53,000 --> 01:31:59,960
Speaker 1: to like watch highly produced I've yet to someone even

1639
01:32:00,160 --> 01:32:02,479
Speaker 1: tell me about like, oh yeah, go check out that

1640
01:32:02,600 --> 01:32:06,080
Speaker 1: new show on YouTube. Like it just hasn't happened yet.

1641
01:32:07,240 --> 01:32:11,600
Speaker 1: So because there's there's like people hard to do it

1642
01:32:11,720 --> 01:32:16,160
Speaker 1: for free, right, Well, one thing you'll see in all

1643
01:32:16,200 --> 01:32:19,120
Speaker 1: those cases and you look at you know, auto by

1644
01:32:19,160 --> 01:32:21,240
Speaker 1: Tel was going to kill the car dealers and all

1645
01:32:21,320 --> 01:32:23,880
Speaker 1: you know, um, you know, you know, the internet was

1646
01:32:23,880 --> 01:32:26,880
Speaker 1: going to kill print and and it and it definitely changed.

1647
01:32:27,040 --> 01:32:30,400
Speaker 1: It's it's gone through painful process. But all of these

1648
01:32:30,439 --> 01:32:32,880
Speaker 1: businesses had to adapt. And so if you don't adapt

1649
01:32:33,000 --> 01:32:35,320
Speaker 1: to this new technology as a network, if we didn't,

1650
01:32:35,400 --> 01:32:38,880
Speaker 1: if we weren't adapting, yeah we would, we would lose

1651
01:32:39,080 --> 01:32:42,440
Speaker 1: some relevance. But we are adapting. You look at Comcast

1652
01:32:42,600 --> 01:32:46,920
Speaker 1: and UH Dish Direct Tv. They are independently. Each one

1653
01:32:46,960 --> 01:32:51,200
Speaker 1: of them is investing over a billion dollars in products

1654
01:32:51,439 --> 01:32:54,519
Speaker 1: and services and the customer experience to make TV better.

1655
01:32:54,720 --> 01:32:57,120
Speaker 1: I used my wife as an example. She's not a

1656
01:32:57,160 --> 01:32:59,800
Speaker 1: big fan of pain our our cable bill, but we

1657
01:33:00,040 --> 01:33:03,160
Speaker 1: have Exfinity and we have the Axfinity remote that she

1658
01:33:03,280 --> 01:33:05,360
Speaker 1: talks to now and it's changed the way that she

1659
01:33:05,760 --> 01:33:08,920
Speaker 1: she can now. You know, for her, four under channels

1660
01:33:09,000 --> 01:33:11,479
Speaker 1: was just too much. Now she can through the remote

1661
01:33:11,840 --> 01:33:14,840
Speaker 1: get what she wants when she wants it. Video on demand,

1662
01:33:14,920 --> 01:33:18,479
Speaker 1: I think is becoming more more accessible where you don't

1663
01:33:18,520 --> 01:33:20,400
Speaker 1: have to, you know, dive in and search. If I

1664
01:33:20,520 --> 01:33:23,120
Speaker 1: want to watch meat Eater, I say meat Eater, and

1665
01:33:23,320 --> 01:33:27,280
Speaker 1: there's it's If it's on demand, it's available. UM. So

1666
01:33:27,920 --> 01:33:31,080
Speaker 1: television is evolving and the technology is driving it. And

1667
01:33:31,439 --> 01:33:33,920
Speaker 1: as a network, you were committed to being on every device,

1668
01:33:34,680 --> 01:33:37,320
Speaker 1: UH with all of our content wherever you want it.

1669
01:33:37,439 --> 01:33:40,519
Speaker 1: But and the whole, the whole cord cutting, and there's

1670
01:33:40,640 --> 01:33:43,720
Speaker 1: absolutely been a reduction, but we're still at I think

1671
01:33:43,760 --> 01:33:48,200
Speaker 1: around ninety million paid UM cable and satellite homes in

1672
01:33:48,240 --> 01:33:50,720
Speaker 1: the US, which is about what it was ten years ago,

1673
01:33:51,360 --> 01:33:53,760
Speaker 1: so it's off from its peak, but there's still a

1674
01:33:53,880 --> 01:33:57,800
Speaker 1: hundred million people, um. And we all have family, extended family.

1675
01:33:57,880 --> 01:33:59,560
Speaker 1: You know, people in your family who still like my

1676
01:33:59,680 --> 01:34:01,880
Speaker 1: mom uch of Jeopardy every day that you can, you know,

1677
01:34:01,960 --> 01:34:05,200
Speaker 1: and she's that's what that's what she will always do. UM.

1678
01:34:05,560 --> 01:34:08,960
Speaker 1: So there's people still consuming it. There's also a lot

1679
01:34:09,040 --> 01:34:12,320
Speaker 1: of people who have cut the cord and then they

1680
01:34:12,360 --> 01:34:14,800
Speaker 1: start cobbling their own there. So they do Netflix and

1681
01:34:14,840 --> 01:34:17,080
Speaker 1: they do ESPN, and they want Fox News and they

1682
01:34:17,160 --> 01:34:18,600
Speaker 1: want some others and all of a sudden, instead of

1683
01:34:18,640 --> 01:34:20,760
Speaker 1: paying a hundred and fifty bucks a month, they're paying

1684
01:34:20,760 --> 01:34:23,479
Speaker 1: a hundred twenty or a hundred and they're not and

1685
01:34:23,520 --> 01:34:27,200
Speaker 1: they're missing something out. So there's chord returners. There's people

1686
01:34:27,240 --> 01:34:30,200
Speaker 1: that are coming back. There's people moving to skinny bundles

1687
01:34:30,280 --> 01:34:33,280
Speaker 1: like we're on Sling and HD for Outdoor Sportsman and

1688
01:34:33,439 --> 01:34:37,120
Speaker 1: World Fishing Network's thirty four dollars a month. Uh. And

1689
01:34:37,240 --> 01:34:40,439
Speaker 1: their their video on demand is fantastic. You know, you

1690
01:34:40,479 --> 01:34:43,479
Speaker 1: can you can watch multiple episodes, not just the current one,

1691
01:34:43,600 --> 01:34:45,800
Speaker 1: and you don't have to watch it at the appointed time.

1692
01:34:45,920 --> 01:34:49,320
Speaker 1: So it's it's evolving, and I agree. I think you

1693
01:34:49,400 --> 01:34:53,080
Speaker 1: know you still that that challenge we have as a

1694
01:34:53,160 --> 01:34:56,080
Speaker 1: network and most people don't under don't understand this because

1695
01:34:56,080 --> 01:35:00,000
Speaker 1: you don't really care. But um, the people making decisions

1696
01:35:00,120 --> 01:35:03,280
Speaker 1: is about caring hunting, shooting, and fishing programming, whether it's

1697
01:35:03,320 --> 01:35:06,519
Speaker 1: our network or not, are not into the sport right,

1698
01:35:06,600 --> 01:35:08,640
Speaker 1: They don't. They don't generally care about hunting, shooting, or

1699
01:35:08,640 --> 01:35:11,439
Speaker 1: fish and they're mostly lawyers and accountants that we live.

1700
01:35:11,600 --> 01:35:13,600
Speaker 1: We live in a passion based industry, but they're not.

1701
01:35:13,760 --> 01:35:15,640
Speaker 1: They don't share it there in the numbers business. And

1702
01:35:15,760 --> 01:35:18,920
Speaker 1: so you know, we have to fight um to maintain

1703
01:35:19,000 --> 01:35:20,800
Speaker 1: our distribution and we want to try to grow it

1704
01:35:20,960 --> 01:35:23,360
Speaker 1: because we have great content. We want to get it

1705
01:35:23,439 --> 01:35:26,800
Speaker 1: out there. UM, but it's it's an uphill battle. If

1706
01:35:26,880 --> 01:35:30,120
Speaker 1: we had ninety million homes in Outdoor Outdoor Channel stead

1707
01:35:30,120 --> 01:35:32,799
Speaker 1: of thirty five million, we could be like History Channel

1708
01:35:32,960 --> 01:35:35,320
Speaker 1: and we could generate the ad dollars because just when

1709
01:35:35,360 --> 01:35:39,400
Speaker 1: you have that number, that that sure number of homes,

1710
01:35:39,640 --> 01:35:42,560
Speaker 1: your ratings will go up, you can sell more advertising,

1711
01:35:42,680 --> 01:35:44,479
Speaker 1: you get more dollars in there, and then you can

1712
01:35:44,960 --> 01:35:47,479
Speaker 1: invest in that content. So it's kind of a catch

1713
01:35:47,560 --> 01:35:51,600
Speaker 1: twenty two, where we have thirty five million subscribers for

1714
01:35:51,680 --> 01:35:54,800
Speaker 1: Outdoor Channel UM and because of that we don't have

1715
01:35:55,439 --> 01:35:59,360
Speaker 1: UM we we don't generate enough AD dollars to buy

1716
01:35:59,439 --> 01:36:01,559
Speaker 1: all the con tent. So that's how that time by

1717
01:36:02,000 --> 01:36:04,160
Speaker 1: kind of came full circle back to that time by mode.

1718
01:36:04,960 --> 01:36:10,760
Speaker 1: Do you feel that hunters like, how far behind in

1719
01:36:10,840 --> 01:36:14,200
Speaker 1: the technology thing? How far behind our hunters generally? I

1720
01:36:14,240 --> 01:36:16,280
Speaker 1: mean they gotta be lagging a little bit right behind

1721
01:36:16,720 --> 01:36:19,280
Speaker 1: like your average American and sort of adoption of new

1722
01:36:19,360 --> 01:36:22,160
Speaker 1: technologies and use of new technologies. Or do you feel

1723
01:36:22,200 --> 01:36:24,720
Speaker 1: that they just keep right and step because like they

1724
01:36:24,760 --> 01:36:27,720
Speaker 1: kind they're almost by definition a little bit of anachronistic, right, Well,

1725
01:36:27,880 --> 01:36:30,560
Speaker 1: our audiences tend to be older anyhow, Like you know,

1726
01:36:30,960 --> 01:36:34,080
Speaker 1: average ages probably in the in the late forties to

1727
01:36:34,160 --> 01:36:38,680
Speaker 1: mid fifties, and so that that's my age essentially. They

1728
01:36:39,000 --> 01:36:41,920
Speaker 1: you know, we are users of technology, but we're not

1729
01:36:42,560 --> 01:36:46,840
Speaker 1: drivers of the of it. So so our viewers are

1730
01:36:47,760 --> 01:36:50,120
Speaker 1: We're not really adopters, but some of them are. You know,

1731
01:36:50,160 --> 01:36:53,560
Speaker 1: we have our my Outdoor tv UM package which is

1732
01:36:53,760 --> 01:36:56,400
Speaker 1: uh just just are all the library of all of

1733
01:36:56,479 --> 01:36:59,760
Speaker 1: the old episodes, so you know that has excuse to

1734
01:36:59,800 --> 01:37:03,720
Speaker 1: them younger consumer. But it's also cheaper too, so it's

1735
01:37:03,760 --> 01:37:07,280
Speaker 1: part of someone skinny bundle for like ten bucks a month. Um,

1736
01:37:08,320 --> 01:37:11,760
Speaker 1: do you guys premier people's new episodes on my Outdoor Tv.

1737
01:37:12,400 --> 01:37:14,639
Speaker 1: There's something that we do, but for now it's it's

1738
01:37:14,760 --> 01:37:17,280
Speaker 1: mostly We do have some originals that we're starting to

1739
01:37:17,360 --> 01:37:21,400
Speaker 1: run on my Outdoor TV, but it's mostly UM library shows.

1740
01:37:21,640 --> 01:37:26,320
Speaker 1: And interestingly enough, and you think about your most passionate

1741
01:37:26,439 --> 01:37:29,360
Speaker 1: fans and you're you're a bad example actually, because I

1742
01:37:29,400 --> 01:37:31,519
Speaker 1: think there's people to do a lot of binge watching

1743
01:37:31,560 --> 01:37:34,160
Speaker 1: on yours. But like for Lee and Tiffany the Crush,

1744
01:37:34,200 --> 01:37:36,080
Speaker 1: it's a great hunting show, very popular, one of the

1745
01:37:36,280 --> 01:37:39,000
Speaker 1: best shows on the network for a long long time,

1746
01:37:39,320 --> 01:37:41,360
Speaker 1: and they're but they're fans don't watch, you know, they

1747
01:37:41,400 --> 01:37:44,160
Speaker 1: do twenty new episodes a year. Their fans don't watch

1748
01:37:44,280 --> 01:37:47,719
Speaker 1: every single episode, so because that's just not the nature

1749
01:37:47,760 --> 01:37:50,080
Speaker 1: of TV, Like if they only watch it when they're participating,

1750
01:37:50,200 --> 01:37:53,280
Speaker 1: sort of only watching September October, they may only catch

1751
01:37:53,720 --> 01:37:57,080
Speaker 1: three or four episodes a year out of twenty. So

1752
01:37:57,280 --> 01:38:00,320
Speaker 1: we have a hundred and fifty episodes of The Rush

1753
01:38:00,400 --> 01:38:03,160
Speaker 1: in our library, and chances are even there their best

1754
01:38:03,200 --> 01:38:09,240
Speaker 1: fans have only seen ten of their libraries. So people say, well, yeah,

1755
01:38:09,280 --> 01:38:11,800
Speaker 1: it's it's old shows. Well, these shows are evergreen. I

1756
01:38:11,840 --> 01:38:14,200
Speaker 1: mean it doesn't you know, sometimes the technology changes a

1757
01:38:14,240 --> 01:38:16,120
Speaker 1: little bit and maybe their sponsors change a little bit.

1758
01:38:16,200 --> 01:38:19,120
Speaker 1: But you know, doing a you know, shooting a mule

1759
01:38:19,200 --> 01:38:21,920
Speaker 1: deer with a bow from the ground is the same

1760
01:38:21,960 --> 01:38:25,680
Speaker 1: today as it was twelve years ago. And um, you know,

1761
01:38:25,760 --> 01:38:29,200
Speaker 1: so it's still it's evergreen content and we're finding there's

1762
01:38:29,280 --> 01:38:32,360
Speaker 1: there's a good demand for it and there there again

1763
01:38:32,360 --> 01:38:34,519
Speaker 1: you know, people ask why isn't it free, Well, because

1764
01:38:34,560 --> 01:38:37,080
Speaker 1: it's worth money and these producers have paid to produce it.

1765
01:38:37,240 --> 01:38:41,479
Speaker 1: So we're licensing libraries from producers and offering it to consumers.

1766
01:38:41,520 --> 01:38:44,559
Speaker 1: So we're packaging it for them in my outdoor TV.

1767
01:38:44,800 --> 01:38:48,799
Speaker 1: And you know, just like everything everyone, everything is moving digital.

1768
01:38:48,880 --> 01:38:52,240
Speaker 1: Well you know, you've learned, as you said, to kind

1769
01:38:52,240 --> 01:38:55,920
Speaker 1: of avoid the fear and that everything's not moving any

1770
01:38:55,960 --> 01:39:00,720
Speaker 1: way any one direction, definitively. But everything is evolving and

1771
01:39:00,920 --> 01:39:06,320
Speaker 1: we're evolving. It's just for me, it's been um to one.

1772
01:39:09,640 --> 01:39:13,639
Speaker 1: When you hear about the death of something, I now think, wow,

1773
01:39:13,960 --> 01:39:17,360
Speaker 1: probably not. And then when new things come in. I

1774
01:39:17,439 --> 01:39:20,400
Speaker 1: just become interested, you know, in the new things, and

1775
01:39:20,439 --> 01:39:22,519
Speaker 1: then less like like I said, Man, I've been being

1776
01:39:22,560 --> 01:39:25,759
Speaker 1: told about I'm doing a mega I'm doing a magazine

1777
01:39:25,800 --> 01:39:28,360
Speaker 1: piece for Outside right now. Um and I sold my

1778
01:39:28,400 --> 01:39:31,080
Speaker 1: first story outside of magazine in two thousand and I

1779
01:39:31,200 --> 01:39:35,439
Speaker 1: was hearing about that the end of that, I gotta,

1780
01:39:35,680 --> 01:39:40,439
Speaker 1: I gotta hardcover cookbook with Random House coming out, speakling

1781
01:39:40,479 --> 01:39:43,000
Speaker 1: grout Random and in printing Random House coming out this November.

1782
01:39:43,280 --> 01:39:45,679
Speaker 1: I've been hearing about how that's all calling it quits

1783
01:39:46,160 --> 01:39:49,840
Speaker 1: for my entire career, you know, in newspapers, and I

1784
01:39:49,920 --> 01:39:53,160
Speaker 1: know my former boss wrote for a newspaper for forty years,

1785
01:39:53,200 --> 01:39:55,759
Speaker 1: and you know he likes the ink on his hands

1786
01:39:56,080 --> 01:39:59,439
Speaker 1: Sunday Sunday morning reading paper. So you know over there

1787
01:39:59,520 --> 01:40:04,000
Speaker 1: that that that maybe someday going away. But the newspapers

1788
01:40:04,120 --> 01:40:06,519
Speaker 1: and they've all, they've all, they've all changed. I mean

1789
01:40:06,560 --> 01:40:10,880
Speaker 1: they're there. You could argue that they were maybe too fat,

1790
01:40:11,520 --> 01:40:13,880
Speaker 1: magazines were too fat and sort of things. You just

1791
01:40:13,960 --> 01:40:17,000
Speaker 1: have to adjust, but you can adjust and you can survive.

1792
01:40:17,120 --> 01:40:20,000
Speaker 1: And um, the content is still good. And I think

1793
01:40:20,080 --> 01:40:22,560
Speaker 1: the bottom line is whether it's long form TV or

1794
01:40:22,600 --> 01:40:25,599
Speaker 1: short form or you know, print and that the content

1795
01:40:25,800 --> 01:40:29,000
Speaker 1: is is uh, what's valuable. Yeah, it ones of being

1796
01:40:29,080 --> 01:40:32,519
Speaker 1: kind of like a like a gradual just a gradual

1797
01:40:32,600 --> 01:40:36,040
Speaker 1: evolution of things, you know, new things coming up. But remember,

1798
01:40:36,120 --> 01:40:38,599
Speaker 1: like what we're doing right now, right this didn't exist.

1799
01:40:40,120 --> 01:40:43,720
Speaker 1: This didn't at a time, this didn't exist. And now

1800
01:40:43,880 --> 01:40:47,439
Speaker 1: it's the thing that just you know, it's growing beyond

1801
01:40:47,560 --> 01:40:49,800
Speaker 1: early adopter phase and it's becoming a thing that's like

1802
01:40:49,920 --> 01:40:53,360
Speaker 1: part of the American life. So I read an article

1803
01:40:53,400 --> 01:40:57,120
Speaker 1: about um some YouTubers who were um I got and

1804
01:40:57,160 --> 01:40:59,560
Speaker 1: I don't remember what his what his thing was to

1805
01:40:59,680 --> 01:41:03,679
Speaker 1: be like, had five point four million subscribers to his channel.

1806
01:41:04,000 --> 01:41:06,479
Speaker 1: It wasn't in the outdoor space. It was something and

1807
01:41:07,280 --> 01:41:10,479
Speaker 1: you know, for years that based just grew and grew

1808
01:41:10,560 --> 01:41:13,599
Speaker 1: and grew, and now those guys are seeing declines. There

1809
01:41:13,640 --> 01:41:17,440
Speaker 1: seems to be that we think of Internet as being limitless,

1810
01:41:17,800 --> 01:41:20,080
Speaker 1: but there's only twenty four hours in a day. There's

1811
01:41:20,120 --> 01:41:22,960
Speaker 1: only so much time you can do anything, whether it's

1812
01:41:22,960 --> 01:41:25,120
Speaker 1: watch TV or surf the web or do what. So

1813
01:41:25,200 --> 01:41:29,600
Speaker 1: there's I think there's a natural max and you know,

1814
01:41:29,640 --> 01:41:31,760
Speaker 1: and it's possible in this hunting space, we've kind of

1815
01:41:32,400 --> 01:41:34,479
Speaker 1: that's that's part of where when you talk about all

1816
01:41:34,560 --> 01:41:37,679
Speaker 1: this content that's readily available, there's this there's this too

1817
01:41:37,840 --> 01:41:41,880
Speaker 1: much that no one's going to win, you know, like

1818
01:41:42,160 --> 01:41:44,080
Speaker 1: it is at the risk of some of the higher

1819
01:41:44,160 --> 01:41:46,360
Speaker 1: quality content going away, because if I'm a brand and

1820
01:41:46,400 --> 01:41:50,360
Speaker 1: I'm just going to support people doing free content for product,

1821
01:41:50,439 --> 01:41:53,000
Speaker 1: and that that high end is going to go away.

1822
01:41:53,680 --> 01:41:57,760
Speaker 1: But it seems to be that, Um, it's not. It's

1823
01:41:57,800 --> 01:42:00,920
Speaker 1: not infinite. There's a there's a there's a natural cap

1824
01:42:01,479 --> 01:42:05,519
Speaker 1: and like in um in in like newspapers and that

1825
01:42:06,000 --> 01:42:08,680
Speaker 1: I think maybe they push that limit. Well, now his

1826
01:42:08,760 --> 01:42:11,640
Speaker 1: technology is evolved, it's it's had to scale back, so

1827
01:42:11,840 --> 01:42:13,960
Speaker 1: we're that's probably where we're at in TV as well.

1828
01:42:15,920 --> 01:42:21,880
Speaker 1: Cal just thinking about fishing, yeah, I mean all sorts

1829
01:42:21,880 --> 01:42:25,400
Speaker 1: of stuff. Yeah, about giant moss keys, Oh, any time

1830
01:42:25,400 --> 01:42:28,640
Speaker 1: when the water is a good time. Yeah. Um, but

1831
01:42:28,680 --> 01:42:33,200
Speaker 1: do you do you have any any rapper uppers concluders, Yeah,

1832
01:42:33,400 --> 01:42:36,439
Speaker 1: you know, just I mean thinking about all the stuff

1833
01:42:36,479 --> 01:42:40,240
Speaker 1: that um was talked about here today. You know, I

1834
01:42:40,360 --> 01:42:42,719
Speaker 1: think you're exactly right. You know, there's plenty of content

1835
01:42:42,880 --> 01:42:47,760
Speaker 1: out there, Um that speaking match. Sorry, Mitch, you are

1836
01:42:47,800 --> 01:42:50,200
Speaker 1: exactly right that there's plenty of content out there that

1837
01:42:50,400 --> 01:42:57,479
Speaker 1: I don't, I do not associate with and I and um,

1838
01:42:57,720 --> 01:43:01,000
Speaker 1: and there's something I do and you know, my hope

1839
01:43:01,160 --> 01:43:05,080
Speaker 1: is that all the content out there is at least connecting.

1840
01:43:05,920 --> 01:43:08,519
Speaker 1: The real benefit is like connecting folks that don't have

1841
01:43:08,640 --> 01:43:11,920
Speaker 1: the amount of access to the outdoor space that we

1842
01:43:12,040 --> 01:43:16,040
Speaker 1: all do, that they're connecting to it, and they're they're

1843
01:43:16,040 --> 01:43:20,320
Speaker 1: gonna have some hold that land and the outdoors in

1844
01:43:20,439 --> 01:43:25,800
Speaker 1: general in high enough regard to want to see it continue.

1845
01:43:26,800 --> 01:43:29,559
Speaker 1: That would be my my best case scenario. And UM,

1846
01:43:30,400 --> 01:43:36,000
Speaker 1: but you know, I think there's the media would inspire advocacy. Yeah,

1847
01:43:36,360 --> 01:43:40,160
Speaker 1: and uh, at least get people to care enough to

1848
01:43:42,040 --> 01:43:44,320
Speaker 1: you don't want to make sure it exists, even if

1849
01:43:44,320 --> 01:43:47,479
Speaker 1: they're not out playing around in Um. You know. But

1850
01:43:47,680 --> 01:43:49,920
Speaker 1: but you know, I think there's some content out there

1851
01:43:49,960 --> 01:43:54,760
Speaker 1: too that UM your your example of you know it,

1852
01:43:55,520 --> 01:43:57,880
Speaker 1: I may not relate it to it, but there's a

1853
01:43:57,960 --> 01:44:00,960
Speaker 1: lot of folks out there who do. Like we for

1854
01:44:01,080 --> 01:44:04,400
Speaker 1: every negative email, we get ten positive ones. And UM,

1855
01:44:04,560 --> 01:44:06,360
Speaker 1: I think there's some content out there that can be

1856
01:44:07,880 --> 01:44:11,519
Speaker 1: used to sway that of the public that doesn't haunt

1857
01:44:12,400 --> 01:44:16,160
Speaker 1: towards you know, a negative opinion on hunt and there's

1858
01:44:17,000 --> 01:44:20,800
Speaker 1: content out there that can in the positive way. Right

1859
01:44:21,200 --> 01:44:23,960
Speaker 1: For for me, that's an argument for our networks and

1860
01:44:24,000 --> 01:44:27,519
Speaker 1: our guidelines because we are controlling that, whereas on YouTube

1861
01:44:27,600 --> 01:44:29,800
Speaker 1: you can put I saw something on YouTube a guy

1862
01:44:29,840 --> 01:44:33,920
Speaker 1: shot a dough with a fifty fifty b MG fifty

1863
01:44:33,960 --> 01:44:36,559
Speaker 1: col like sniper rifle and and in fact he missed

1864
01:44:36,600 --> 01:44:41,040
Speaker 1: the dough, but the doe's head exploded from the concussion

1865
01:44:41,080 --> 01:44:44,639
Speaker 1: of like just the whatever, the bullet passing over its head.

1866
01:44:44,720 --> 01:44:46,720
Speaker 1: It's like that as he thought that was pretty cool.

1867
01:44:46,920 --> 01:44:48,800
Speaker 1: He thought that was worthy of posting that. Wouldn't you

1868
01:44:48,800 --> 01:44:54,240
Speaker 1: know obviously never make air on our network, and none

1869
01:44:54,280 --> 01:44:57,560
Speaker 1: of us would advocate advocate doing that. But you know,

1870
01:44:57,800 --> 01:44:59,720
Speaker 1: it's a free society, so that you you'll have some

1871
01:45:00,080 --> 01:45:03,320
Speaker 1: that on on the YouTube, where whereas we have we

1872
01:45:03,439 --> 01:45:06,840
Speaker 1: do control that. And um but I mean even on O.

1873
01:45:07,160 --> 01:45:09,920
Speaker 1: S G stuff, you know that. I mean I've seen, uh,

1874
01:45:10,640 --> 01:45:12,800
Speaker 1: you know things again that I just don't associate with.

1875
01:45:13,080 --> 01:45:17,720
Speaker 1: And and I'm hunting fishing, dude, And if I don't

1876
01:45:17,720 --> 01:45:21,160
Speaker 1: associate with the chances are the non hunters probably are

1877
01:45:21,320 --> 01:45:24,599
Speaker 1: going to be like probably even question if it's legal,

1878
01:45:25,280 --> 01:45:28,360
Speaker 1: if it's right, you know, so, um, you know, net

1879
01:45:28,479 --> 01:45:32,479
Speaker 1: net not knowing for sure. I just hope that at

1880
01:45:32,520 --> 01:45:36,160
Speaker 1: the end of the day there's we're gaining and we're

1881
01:45:36,200 --> 01:45:41,519
Speaker 1: not not losing. Yeah, there's not much a concluder, just

1882
01:45:41,640 --> 01:45:45,560
Speaker 1: a thought digging though. I like it's thought. It's provocative.

1883
01:45:46,160 --> 01:45:48,640
Speaker 1: My and my my hope in being on here was

1884
01:45:48,720 --> 01:45:52,160
Speaker 1: to help you understand that we are looking out for

1885
01:45:52,280 --> 01:45:54,240
Speaker 1: that and we try and we're you know, we're not perfect,

1886
01:45:54,280 --> 01:45:57,679
Speaker 1: but we we have I think a pretty good process

1887
01:45:57,760 --> 01:45:59,560
Speaker 1: and a pretty good team in place to try to

1888
01:45:59,680 --> 01:46:01,840
Speaker 1: make or that we're doing that and and and keep

1889
01:46:01,880 --> 01:46:03,760
Speaker 1: getting better because I think the net of the net

1890
01:46:03,880 --> 01:46:08,000
Speaker 1: is hunting television can really help us and can help

1891
01:46:08,080 --> 01:46:10,240
Speaker 1: expand the sport and help people and help make people

1892
01:46:10,280 --> 01:46:13,560
Speaker 1: better Hunters enjoy it more, you know, want to participate

1893
01:46:13,680 --> 01:46:16,679
Speaker 1: more in it when it's done right, and as a network,

1894
01:46:16,800 --> 01:46:22,519
Speaker 1: we take that responsibility very seriously. That's good to hear. Yeah,

1895
01:46:22,560 --> 01:46:28,320
Speaker 1: we premiered I don't know Man nineties some episodes of

1896
01:46:28,479 --> 01:46:31,439
Speaker 1: mediat on Sportsman Channel over a long period of time,

1897
01:46:31,520 --> 01:46:33,599
Speaker 1: and I have to tell you, I had you talked about,

1898
01:46:33,880 --> 01:46:37,080
Speaker 1: you know that crossing that line. I somebody watched your

1899
01:46:37,240 --> 01:46:41,080
Speaker 1: Monkey Brain episode We Ate the Monkey Brain, and leg,

1900
01:46:41,640 --> 01:46:44,880
Speaker 1: I thought you didn't eat a brain those boys. That's

1901
01:46:44,920 --> 01:46:47,400
Speaker 1: Indiana Jones. No, I mean there was there was no

1902
01:46:47,600 --> 01:46:50,160
Speaker 1: eight must eight monkeys, right. So I got a call

1903
01:46:50,240 --> 01:46:52,920
Speaker 1: from a producer and that producer said, I just watched

1904
01:46:52,960 --> 01:46:57,680
Speaker 1: Steve Rannella eat a monkey on Sportsman Channel, So I'm

1905
01:46:57,720 --> 01:46:59,559
Speaker 1: pretty sure I can do whatever I want to now.

1906
01:47:00,000 --> 01:47:03,240
Speaker 1: It's but I would come in and I would come

1907
01:47:03,280 --> 01:47:05,519
Speaker 1: in and it winds up being a very different situation.

1908
01:47:05,760 --> 01:47:16,360
Speaker 1: Not different, but it's like it's, uh, you're in another

1909
01:47:16,520 --> 01:47:22,000
Speaker 1: country traveling with indigenous people's who have lived there for

1910
01:47:22,400 --> 01:47:27,759
Speaker 1: thousands of years, carrying on a traditional life practice of theirs,

1911
01:47:28,360 --> 01:47:34,040
Speaker 1: and you witness them go and kill a monkey, which

1912
01:47:34,120 --> 01:47:36,280
Speaker 1: they do it would be doing in the absence of

1913
01:47:36,360 --> 01:47:40,040
Speaker 1: a camera, and you're present for that, and then they

1914
01:47:40,160 --> 01:47:43,560
Speaker 1: prepare the monkey and you're served some monkey and you

1915
01:47:43,680 --> 01:47:46,920
Speaker 1: eat the monkey with them, and um, It's like someone

1916
01:47:47,000 --> 01:47:50,240
Speaker 1: could come and say you ate a monkey, or you

1917
01:47:50,400 --> 01:47:52,760
Speaker 1: come and be like, well, let's look at the context

1918
01:47:53,920 --> 01:47:57,479
Speaker 1: in which it was done. But sure, sure, man, Um,

1919
01:47:57,600 --> 01:48:01,760
Speaker 1: it wasn't lost on me that that is risk as

1920
01:48:01,880 --> 01:48:04,000
Speaker 1: the word wasn't lost on me that it's like a

1921
01:48:04,080 --> 01:48:08,920
Speaker 1: potentially hot issue. But if the context frat boys being

1922
01:48:09,000 --> 01:48:12,320
Speaker 1: like hey, I'll bet you a buck to shooting monkeys

1923
01:48:12,320 --> 01:48:15,640
Speaker 1: out of a zoo, It's like it's just very different, right,

1924
01:48:15,920 --> 01:48:19,200
Speaker 1: It's just different. So yeah, you're if you if you

1925
01:48:19,560 --> 01:48:21,479
Speaker 1: go by the test. And this is the thing I

1926
01:48:21,560 --> 01:48:25,040
Speaker 1: hear from people all the time, where like, well, what

1927
01:48:25,240 --> 01:48:28,040
Speaker 1: if someone just drops in, what are they gonna see?

1928
01:48:28,600 --> 01:48:30,960
Speaker 1: I'm like, Okay, you know, if you're the kind of

1929
01:48:31,080 --> 01:48:38,000
Speaker 1: person that just drops in and plucks seconds out of

1930
01:48:38,080 --> 01:48:41,120
Speaker 1: its broader context, you're more likely to find things that

1931
01:48:41,160 --> 01:48:43,880
Speaker 1: are upsetting to you. Then if you're the kind of

1932
01:48:43,960 --> 01:48:49,160
Speaker 1: person who comes in and takes those seconds and then

1933
01:48:49,280 --> 01:48:52,880
Speaker 1: sets them in their proper place, which is why in

1934
01:48:52,960 --> 01:48:55,519
Speaker 1: our guy Inline we talk about um, if you know

1935
01:48:57,320 --> 01:48:59,680
Speaker 1: you can hunt lions, you know lion it's legal, but

1936
01:48:59,800 --> 01:49:03,320
Speaker 1: we always recommend you you need to tell the story.

1937
01:49:03,439 --> 01:49:06,040
Speaker 1: You need to tell the conservation story or elephants or

1938
01:49:06,080 --> 01:49:08,840
Speaker 1: things like because it's it's controversial, and yes, if you

1939
01:49:08,960 --> 01:49:11,880
Speaker 1: take if you take a sliver of that content, you

1940
01:49:11,960 --> 01:49:14,240
Speaker 1: can make it look really really bad when in the

1941
01:49:14,479 --> 01:49:17,400
Speaker 1: in the big picture, we had um. Jenna Waller from

1942
01:49:17,439 --> 01:49:20,120
Speaker 1: skull bound on sports from Jenneal was getting harassed about

1943
01:49:20,680 --> 01:49:22,519
Speaker 1: a show she did. She and she took it was

1944
01:49:22,960 --> 01:49:27,200
Speaker 1: some some sort of um um antelope in Africa. Her

1945
01:49:27,240 --> 01:49:31,040
Speaker 1: whole episode was about the preservation of hyenas. If you

1946
01:49:31,160 --> 01:49:33,880
Speaker 1: watch that, I mean, yes, they hunted, they hunted planes

1947
01:49:33,960 --> 01:49:38,080
Speaker 1: game and she shot some sort of like and like Paula,

1948
01:49:38,120 --> 01:49:41,280
Speaker 1: I think it was um. But the whole they whoever

1949
01:49:41,479 --> 01:49:44,519
Speaker 1: complained about it, and they were anti hunters and as

1950
01:49:44,680 --> 01:49:47,519
Speaker 1: it's probably my concluder that I want to talk about um.

1951
01:49:47,880 --> 01:49:50,240
Speaker 1: You know, they ignore all the good and they just

1952
01:49:50,400 --> 01:49:53,639
Speaker 1: focus on that one little sliver. And uh, I think

1953
01:49:53,720 --> 01:49:55,640
Speaker 1: one of one of my concluders is that we are

1954
01:49:56,000 --> 01:50:00,160
Speaker 1: our sport is controversial to many people or just and

1955
01:50:00,400 --> 01:50:03,080
Speaker 1: you know the Cecil the lion incident and that I

1956
01:50:03,200 --> 01:50:05,839
Speaker 1: think that moved a lot of people off of neutral

1957
01:50:06,040 --> 01:50:09,760
Speaker 1: maybe towards the negatives. And you know, as sportsmen, we

1958
01:50:09,880 --> 01:50:13,400
Speaker 1: have a huge responsibility to to you know, I don't

1959
01:50:13,439 --> 01:50:15,240
Speaker 1: you're not gonna you're not gonna you know, we're not

1960
01:50:15,320 --> 01:50:19,479
Speaker 1: going to um um engage with Peta and convince them

1961
01:50:19,560 --> 01:50:22,000
Speaker 1: that what we're doing is right. But we do need

1962
01:50:22,080 --> 01:50:24,439
Speaker 1: to make sure that when someone does drop in what

1963
01:50:24,600 --> 01:50:27,920
Speaker 1: they see on our networks is they might not participate

1964
01:50:27,960 --> 01:50:30,400
Speaker 1: in it, but they should think that. Well, yeah, I

1965
01:50:30,720 --> 01:50:35,520
Speaker 1: understand that. And we're working on our conservation, some conservation initiatives.

1966
01:50:35,960 --> 01:50:38,680
Speaker 1: A lot of it is you know, statistics show that

1967
01:50:38,800 --> 01:50:42,519
Speaker 1: if you know, hunting for food is highly acceptable, like

1968
01:50:42,600 --> 01:50:46,479
Speaker 1: seventy of the general public accepts hunting for food, but

1969
01:50:46,560 --> 01:50:48,920
Speaker 1: hunting for trophies and using word like trophy hunting, it's

1970
01:50:48,960 --> 01:50:54,439
Speaker 1: like and it's it's such just as it's a goofy sebmantics, right,

1971
01:50:55,000 --> 01:50:58,720
Speaker 1: it's so My my concluder is, um, I've seen in

1972
01:50:58,800 --> 01:51:01,000
Speaker 1: those cases and in in the cases of you know,

1973
01:51:01,040 --> 01:51:04,160
Speaker 1: where the producers had issues. Um, we tend to do

1974
01:51:04,240 --> 01:51:07,000
Speaker 1: a lot of infighting and like the anti hunters, they

1975
01:51:07,040 --> 01:51:09,479
Speaker 1: don't need to engage with us because in many cases

1976
01:51:09,560 --> 01:51:12,439
Speaker 1: we're we're our own worst enemy in those situations. And

1977
01:51:12,640 --> 01:51:14,560
Speaker 1: and so as a network, we want to try to

1978
01:51:14,640 --> 01:51:18,040
Speaker 1: help be a positive force and bring people together and

1979
01:51:18,360 --> 01:51:21,400
Speaker 1: and educate people about our passion and the good things

1980
01:51:21,520 --> 01:51:25,320
Speaker 1: about hunting. And and you know, it's it's not just

1981
01:51:25,560 --> 01:51:27,559
Speaker 1: the kill. And it's another thing I'll say in our guidelines.

1982
01:51:27,560 --> 01:51:29,559
Speaker 1: You know, we don't say that you need to shoot

1983
01:51:29,600 --> 01:51:32,920
Speaker 1: big animals or you need to In fact, we never

1984
01:51:33,040 --> 01:51:36,240
Speaker 1: say that a two hundred inchdeer on camera doesn't rate

1985
01:51:36,280 --> 01:51:38,640
Speaker 1: any better than a hundred and thirty inchineer that like

1986
01:51:38,760 --> 01:51:43,280
Speaker 1: stand pots shoots. No, it doesn't. It doesn't drive ratings.

1987
01:51:43,600 --> 01:51:46,519
Speaker 1: I think advertisers want that because they want their products

1988
01:51:46,520 --> 01:51:50,479
Speaker 1: to be associated with extra successful exactly. But but then

1989
01:51:50,640 --> 01:51:52,640
Speaker 1: we're we're not focused on that. We want the more

1990
01:51:52,640 --> 01:51:57,200
Speaker 1: of the authentic experience in that so, um, you know,

1991
01:51:57,280 --> 01:52:00,400
Speaker 1: we just want it would be nice. Uh. Part of

1992
01:52:00,479 --> 01:52:02,679
Speaker 1: my goal and behind or is to help people understand

1993
01:52:02,800 --> 01:52:06,880
Speaker 1: that we are actively trying to expand hunting and put

1994
01:52:06,960 --> 01:52:08,960
Speaker 1: our best foot forward and put the best content on

1995
01:52:09,080 --> 01:52:12,320
Speaker 1: TV that we can so that we we've all got kids,

1996
01:52:12,520 --> 01:52:14,160
Speaker 1: we want them to be able to participate at the

1997
01:52:14,200 --> 01:52:16,680
Speaker 1: same level we are. And um, part of that is

1998
01:52:17,080 --> 01:52:19,360
Speaker 1: being able to get our message out and it comes

1999
01:52:19,360 --> 01:52:23,639
Speaker 1: with a certain amount of risk. Yeah. On that note,

2000
01:52:25,600 --> 01:52:27,760
Speaker 1: you have a pulse son, like what's going on in

2001
01:52:27,840 --> 01:52:31,000
Speaker 1: the media and talking about do you guys have an

2002
01:52:31,040 --> 01:52:37,000
Speaker 1: idea of like how that engages with the stuff that

2003
01:52:37,080 --> 01:52:40,360
Speaker 1: you're putting out there, like where you sometimes reach them

2004
01:52:40,479 --> 01:52:43,040
Speaker 1: or how they find you or how you're trying to

2005
01:52:43,160 --> 01:52:47,160
Speaker 1: reach them in terms like reach them with just However,

2006
01:52:47,320 --> 01:52:49,720
Speaker 1: like you're saying, like if that person drops in right

2007
01:52:49,880 --> 01:52:53,840
Speaker 1: and just somehow it's randomly on Sportsman's Channel, how does

2008
01:52:53,920 --> 01:52:55,519
Speaker 1: that happen? Do you guys know what that looks like?

2009
01:52:55,760 --> 01:52:57,920
Speaker 1: Or do you guys know other channels or other avenues

2010
01:52:58,120 --> 01:53:03,680
Speaker 1: that somehow engages you you And yeah, I mean in

2011
01:53:03,840 --> 01:53:06,080
Speaker 1: terms of like tactics and how to draw viewers to

2012
01:53:06,160 --> 01:53:08,479
Speaker 1: our networks and that you know, we'll like we do

2013
01:53:08,560 --> 01:53:12,559
Speaker 1: our own advertising promotion. Yeah, you mentioned like Duck Dynasty, right,

2014
01:53:12,680 --> 01:53:14,960
Speaker 1: that brings right, right, so we want to we we

2015
01:53:15,720 --> 01:53:18,240
Speaker 1: it's very expensive, as you know, to launch a show

2016
01:53:18,400 --> 01:53:21,560
Speaker 1: and to market it properly, and in fact, the economies

2017
01:53:21,600 --> 01:53:24,320
Speaker 1: of scale in our industries, you can't spend thirty million

2018
01:53:24,360 --> 01:53:28,519
Speaker 1: dollars on on marketing a series. Like if you did

2019
01:53:28,560 --> 01:53:31,479
Speaker 1: a movie, you know they'll they'll spend thirty million dollars

2020
01:53:31,560 --> 01:53:33,760
Speaker 1: to market that. So that's why we look at a

2021
01:53:33,800 --> 01:53:36,439
Speaker 1: Duck Dynasty who has this established brand to come in.

2022
01:53:36,560 --> 01:53:38,680
Speaker 1: So yes, that was a big part of it and

2023
01:53:38,840 --> 01:53:41,840
Speaker 1: and it worked, and same with the Deadliest Catch. We

2024
01:53:41,960 --> 01:53:45,280
Speaker 1: also do movies on Outdoor Channel and Friday nights Saturday nights.

2025
01:53:45,320 --> 01:53:48,719
Speaker 1: People like to watch movies, so we do the movie.

2026
01:53:49,240 --> 01:53:51,880
Speaker 1: But if you watch a movie on Outdoor Channel, you'll

2027
01:53:51,920 --> 01:53:54,519
Speaker 1: see there's trivia. We use our hosts to actually have

2028
01:53:54,760 --> 01:53:57,360
Speaker 1: outdoor trivia. We're working on some other things. We want

2029
01:53:57,360 --> 01:54:00,040
Speaker 1: to bring in a new viewer and let them know

2030
01:54:00,320 --> 01:54:02,439
Speaker 1: that this is what we're about. We have other really

2031
01:54:02,520 --> 01:54:04,400
Speaker 1: cool contents. So you may have found us via the

2032
01:54:04,479 --> 01:54:07,320
Speaker 1: movie or found us via Deadly as Catch, but look

2033
01:54:07,360 --> 01:54:16,240
Speaker 1: at everything else that's around. Got it good yet? I

2034
01:54:16,240 --> 01:54:20,000
Speaker 1: answered my question? Um, but you did. In your notes

2035
01:54:20,040 --> 01:54:23,280
Speaker 1: and we were emailing, you mentioned being an advocate for

2036
01:54:23,640 --> 01:54:26,160
Speaker 1: you know, family hunting and whatnot. And earlier we talked

2037
01:54:26,200 --> 01:54:29,479
Speaker 1: about how we're thinking that. You know, it's debatable, right,

2038
01:54:29,560 --> 01:54:34,480
Speaker 1: but what hunter numbers are doing right now? What what's

2039
01:54:34,520 --> 01:54:37,320
Speaker 1: going on with with you guys that like or what

2040
01:54:37,400 --> 01:54:38,840
Speaker 1: do you see even if it's not you guys, but

2041
01:54:38,920 --> 01:54:40,800
Speaker 1: what do you see? What do you feel like it's

2042
01:54:40,840 --> 01:54:43,320
Speaker 1: working the best to bring on new hunters? Do you

2043
01:54:43,400 --> 01:54:45,440
Speaker 1: kind of want to ask why you're not seeing more

2044
01:54:45,480 --> 01:54:48,880
Speaker 1: squirrel hunting? Is that? Yeah? Yeah, the small game versus

2045
01:54:48,960 --> 01:54:53,680
Speaker 1: the big No, it's not my question, Okay, Um, we donting.

2046
01:54:54,120 --> 01:54:57,960
Speaker 1: Jackie Bushman has a squirl hunting competition every year. Really

2047
01:54:58,080 --> 01:55:01,360
Speaker 1: yeah airgun it's an airgun company into that. Yeah, But

2048
01:55:01,440 --> 01:55:02,680
Speaker 1: you know what I mean, Like, there's probably a lot

2049
01:55:02,680 --> 01:55:04,160
Speaker 1: of people who do a lot of different things to

2050
01:55:04,280 --> 01:55:06,680
Speaker 1: bring in war hunters to grow the sport, and you

2051
01:55:06,760 --> 01:55:09,960
Speaker 1: probably get to kind of see all that is. There

2052
01:55:10,000 --> 01:55:11,560
Speaker 1: is something you can point out that you say, man,

2053
01:55:11,640 --> 01:55:14,200
Speaker 1: that seems to really be working. Well, you know, we do.

2054
01:55:14,400 --> 01:55:16,440
Speaker 1: We use all of our social media channels and all

2055
01:55:16,520 --> 01:55:20,520
Speaker 1: of our print and digital channels to put the best

2056
01:55:20,560 --> 01:55:23,320
Speaker 1: foot forward for hunting and and and bringing kids hunting

2057
01:55:23,360 --> 01:55:26,320
Speaker 1: and that in our CEO, he's he advocates to producers

2058
01:55:26,400 --> 01:55:28,560
Speaker 1: to push more of that in your show, but by

2059
01:55:28,600 --> 01:55:32,200
Speaker 1: showing images and UM and and really airing hunts that

2060
01:55:32,520 --> 01:55:38,840
Speaker 1: help people understand how they can participate. I have had

2061
01:55:38,880 --> 01:55:41,800
Speaker 1: an interesting conversation with a guy and I won't say

2062
01:55:41,800 --> 01:55:43,160
Speaker 1: what state he is from because I don't want to.

2063
01:55:43,280 --> 01:55:45,560
Speaker 1: I don't want to blow his cover. But we were

2064
01:55:45,600 --> 01:55:50,240
Speaker 1: talking about hunting numbers and using licenses as a measure

2065
01:55:50,400 --> 01:55:57,520
Speaker 1: for participation and UM what he explained what's UM. Through

2066
01:55:57,640 --> 01:56:00,240
Speaker 1: contacts with Warden's they said in like major Metro All's

2067
01:56:00,280 --> 01:56:04,240
Speaker 1: in areas upwards of anglers don't buy a license. It's

2068
01:56:04,280 --> 01:56:07,760
Speaker 1: just they just don't write. So, but those anglers are

2069
01:56:07,800 --> 01:56:10,600
Speaker 1: buying bait, and they're buying rods and reels and tackle,

2070
01:56:10,720 --> 01:56:13,040
Speaker 1: and they're participating. They're just not buying a leisure So

2071
01:56:13,480 --> 01:56:16,320
Speaker 1: because of that, they felt in this state because he

2072
01:56:16,360 --> 01:56:19,640
Speaker 1: worked with the DNR and it wasn't Montana, it wasn't Michigan,

2073
01:56:19,840 --> 01:56:24,120
Speaker 1: just you know, but they felt that narrowed down to exactly,

2074
01:56:25,120 --> 01:56:27,800
Speaker 1: I don't want to get him in trouble. They so

2075
01:56:27,920 --> 01:56:32,200
Speaker 1: the numbers of anglers is underreported. Hunting on the other

2076
01:56:32,280 --> 01:56:35,040
Speaker 1: side of the coin, there are like twenty seven states

2077
01:56:35,320 --> 01:56:38,040
Speaker 1: that are one buck only, but you can party hunt.

2078
01:56:38,600 --> 01:56:42,680
Speaker 1: So guys are buying tags for their wives, their daughter

2079
01:56:43,040 --> 01:56:46,200
Speaker 1: or their mother so they can have extra buck tags

2080
01:56:46,400 --> 01:56:50,560
Speaker 1: in in their um, in their in their camp essentially.

2081
01:56:51,360 --> 01:56:55,040
Speaker 1: But those women aren't participating necessarily obviously some of them are.

2082
01:56:55,480 --> 01:56:57,960
Speaker 1: But so they're not buying bows, they're not. That's that's

2083
01:56:58,080 --> 01:57:01,080
Speaker 1: these guys will look doing research on why I more

2084
01:57:01,160 --> 01:57:05,240
Speaker 1: people aren't buying crossbows and compombos, is what they were researching,

2085
01:57:05,640 --> 01:57:08,640
Speaker 1: and that was part of it. It was the women

2086
01:57:09,120 --> 01:57:10,920
Speaker 1: are not actually, and and so we say, well, look

2087
01:57:10,960 --> 01:57:13,800
Speaker 1: at look at the number of women who are buying licenses, Well,

2088
01:57:13,960 --> 01:57:16,040
Speaker 1: not a hunter. I'm not saying that it's it's like,

2089
01:57:16,880 --> 01:57:20,080
Speaker 1: aren't participating. I know there are more women participating in

2090
01:57:20,160 --> 01:57:23,800
Speaker 1: hunting than previously, but it's they think it's overstated because

2091
01:57:23,840 --> 01:57:25,760
Speaker 1: of that, And and the states don't want to do

2092
01:57:25,800 --> 01:57:28,800
Speaker 1: anything about it because they might lose upwards of five

2093
01:57:29,200 --> 01:57:31,520
Speaker 1: thousand dollars in license sales if they change the rules,

2094
01:57:31,800 --> 01:57:34,880
Speaker 1: and then they lose federal matching funds, so they're kind

2095
01:57:34,920 --> 01:57:37,480
Speaker 1: of the kind of allowed. So it's tough to say, oh,

2096
01:57:37,520 --> 01:57:40,400
Speaker 1: you know there's only ten million hunters, Well maybe there is,

2097
01:57:40,520 --> 01:57:43,480
Speaker 1: or maybe maybe there's not, or you know, it's it's

2098
01:57:44,840 --> 01:57:46,800
Speaker 1: but we but we know it's not as it's not

2099
01:57:46,960 --> 01:57:50,160
Speaker 1: as acceptable now. And like with with social media and

2100
01:57:50,240 --> 01:57:53,320
Speaker 1: some of the other just communication tools that are available

2101
01:57:53,360 --> 01:57:56,400
Speaker 1: that the Cecil the Lione thing couldn't have happened fifteen

2102
01:57:56,480 --> 01:57:59,920
Speaker 1: years ago because that campaign would not have been able

2103
01:58:00,120 --> 01:58:03,560
Speaker 1: to be sustained by the anti hunters for thirty days. Yeah,

2104
01:58:03,600 --> 01:58:06,640
Speaker 1: the distribution channel wasn't there there right, So now so

2105
01:58:07,000 --> 01:58:10,040
Speaker 1: it's and you couldn't you couldn't have popularized the image.

2106
01:58:10,680 --> 01:58:12,920
Speaker 1: I mean, we've always had images that have come and

2107
01:58:13,240 --> 01:58:17,160
Speaker 1: we've always had images that have come and and you know,

2108
01:58:17,280 --> 01:58:21,680
Speaker 1: and really captured the American imagination and why they distributed

2109
01:58:21,720 --> 01:58:24,240
Speaker 1: and very impactful. But it just happens in lightning speed,

2110
01:58:24,280 --> 01:58:29,680
Speaker 1: and it happens more often, right, Yeah, got anything else

2111
01:58:29,720 --> 01:58:32,160
Speaker 1: you want to add? You honest, No, that does it

2112
01:58:32,280 --> 01:58:34,680
Speaker 1: for me. You're liking them golf shirts, man, when you're traveling,

2113
01:58:35,240 --> 01:58:37,320
Speaker 1: this is my only one. Makes you feel like you're

2114
01:58:38,160 --> 01:58:41,800
Speaker 1: makes you feel like you're you're cool and comfortable and

2115
01:58:42,360 --> 01:58:46,600
Speaker 1: but still professional that you're is that is that you're

2116
01:58:46,600 --> 01:58:51,280
Speaker 1: feeling exactly? I can't Did you get attacked by a

2117
01:58:51,320 --> 01:58:54,080
Speaker 1: bear or something? Got it got claw marks on it?

2118
01:58:54,560 --> 01:58:57,520
Speaker 1: It does look like that doesn't When when it happened,

2119
01:58:57,640 --> 01:58:59,920
Speaker 1: I was thinking that, look at that got scratched up.

2120
01:59:00,000 --> 01:59:03,240
Speaker 1: I have bear, But I was running through the forests.

2121
01:59:03,640 --> 01:59:06,040
Speaker 1: This new if you're not extreme enough, there's this new

2122
01:59:06,080 --> 01:59:08,960
Speaker 1: thing I came up with called game trail running. So

2123
01:59:09,080 --> 01:59:11,040
Speaker 1: if just trail running is not cool enough, if you

2124
01:59:11,080 --> 01:59:14,280
Speaker 1: can do game trail running or more extreme than that,

2125
01:59:14,440 --> 01:59:18,000
Speaker 1: is no trail running. So when the game trail disappears,

2126
01:59:18,360 --> 01:59:21,160
Speaker 1: just keep running off through the woods. At this moment,

2127
01:59:21,200 --> 01:59:24,360
Speaker 1: I actually wasn't running. I was probably just like hiking uphill,

2128
01:59:24,720 --> 01:59:28,000
Speaker 1: um heaving, trying to get my breath back. And yeah,

2129
01:59:28,080 --> 01:59:30,600
Speaker 1: I stepped on a log that had no more log

2130
01:59:30,720 --> 01:59:33,440
Speaker 1: left in it and just gave out and scratched up

2131
01:59:33,480 --> 01:59:36,440
Speaker 1: my leg. It would have been cooler if you said, yeah,

2132
01:59:36,600 --> 01:59:40,400
Speaker 1: I got attacked by it while running. I have one

2133
01:59:40,600 --> 01:59:42,840
Speaker 1: out random. I have one golf shirt that I just

2134
01:59:42,960 --> 01:59:46,880
Speaker 1: wore the other day for my tenth wedding anniversary. Um,

2135
01:59:47,480 --> 01:59:49,280
Speaker 1: and I've had that one golf shirt for forever, and

2136
01:59:49,360 --> 01:59:51,960
Speaker 1: it's like, if something special happens during the warm months,

2137
01:59:52,000 --> 01:59:54,480
Speaker 1: I wear that golf shirt and uh, it's got a

2138
01:59:54,520 --> 01:59:56,760
Speaker 1: lot of holes in it. Now, that's why I'm that's

2139
01:59:56,800 --> 01:59:58,400
Speaker 1: kind of why I'm curious in your going about your

2140
01:59:58,400 --> 02:00:02,960
Speaker 1: golf shirt. Moth got or just just time funny time

2141
02:00:03,280 --> 02:00:06,800
Speaker 1: time destroys all. I brought you guys golf shirts. That's

2142
02:00:06,840 --> 02:00:10,680
Speaker 1: a that's a gift. Yeah, I'm not. I'm not even lying.

2143
02:00:11,040 --> 02:00:13,120
Speaker 1: When I hit my when I hit my twentieth anniversary,

2144
02:00:13,120 --> 02:00:16,880
Speaker 1: I'm putting that bad boy golf shirt. I always called

2145
02:00:16,960 --> 02:00:20,080
Speaker 1: him polo shirts because I think like everybody when we

2146
02:00:20,120 --> 02:00:21,840
Speaker 1: were a kid. When I see a shirt like, to

2147
02:00:21,960 --> 02:00:25,520
Speaker 1: be frank, when I see a shirt like that, I

2148
02:00:25,640 --> 02:00:30,280
Speaker 1: think that that person likes the golf polo shirt, that's

2149
02:00:30,280 --> 02:00:34,200
Speaker 1: what because it used to like, Yeah, we're a kid,

2150
02:00:35,240 --> 02:00:37,480
Speaker 1: it's a polo shirt if it's got long sleeps. Don't

2151
02:00:37,520 --> 02:00:41,560
Speaker 1: they were long sleeves playing for rugby shirt. You're right,

2152
02:00:42,960 --> 02:00:45,960
Speaker 1: that's a polo shirt. But polo shirt because it's like

2153
02:00:46,080 --> 02:00:54,960
Speaker 1: clean X is a tissue shirt because yeah, actually warm.

2154
02:00:56,160 --> 02:01:00,840
Speaker 1: I'll sort it out later, do my own research. You

2155
02:01:01,040 --> 02:01:03,280
Speaker 1: start this one out after she does have a trout

2156
02:01:03,360 --> 02:01:05,520
Speaker 1: on there and it's it's clearly Patagonia, So I don't.

2157
02:01:05,520 --> 02:01:08,720
Speaker 1: I don't think that's a golf shirt. I am gonna

2158
02:01:08,720 --> 02:01:11,720
Speaker 1: go have an ordered Arnold Palmer here after this podcast

2159
02:01:11,840 --> 02:01:15,080
Speaker 1: is over to quench my thirst. All right, Well, Mitch Petrie, Ah,

2160
02:01:15,200 --> 02:01:18,520
Speaker 1: thank you very much for coming on the show. Thanks

2161
02:01:18,560 --> 02:01:19,000
Speaker 1: for having me.