Speaker 1: The volume.
Speaker 2: Ryan Rossillo's about ready to stop by. We're going to
Speaker 2: talk about a variety of things before we start with Ryan.
Speaker 2: It's going to take you about thirty to forty five seconds.
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Speaker 2: App is there, all right. I don't ask for Scillo
Speaker 2: or do this much. He comes on TV and I'll
Speaker 2: go on his podcast, but I don't want to get
Speaker 2: in his way. He's busy, he's a man of the people,
Speaker 2: and I don't want to get in his shit. But
Speaker 2: I do like talking to him because on my podcast
Speaker 2: we can talk about stuff. Look at first thing he
Speaker 2: does is show the gun show. I mean, fuck, I
Speaker 2: got no shot here. I know it sounds you'll remember this,
Speaker 2: so I always or you know, overreaction, Monday recency bias.
Speaker 2: I'm emotional. I watched these games. I get so cy
Speaker 2: and I could. You and I could sit and talk
Speaker 2: for an hour about a game, and you and I
Speaker 2: have had beers and we were just like, it's like
Speaker 2: we're doing a show, right, because we love our what
Speaker 2: we do. But I remember years ago, you'll remember this.
Speaker 2: Randy Moss goes to the Patriots. He's there a couple
Speaker 2: of years. It's very successful. Monday night game against Miami.
Speaker 2: They don't freaking target him. And I went on the
Speaker 2: air the next day and he espon. I said, he's out.
Speaker 2: Time out. You don't have Randy Moss and not target it.
Speaker 1: Now.
Speaker 2: You could target him eleven times with two completions. It
Speaker 2: could be the weather, it could He's out. And I
Speaker 2: remember at this point, I was still like reading emails
Speaker 2: and people are like this recency. But two days later
Speaker 2: it was gone, and I'm like, sometimes it's not recency bias.
Speaker 2: You're seeing shit. And I remember that because it was like,
Speaker 2: you couldn't guard Randy Moss at that point. You literally
Speaker 2: couldn't guard him. There was no you had to roll
Speaker 2: coverage over. You could put rivis on him, it didn't matter.
Speaker 2: He got open. And I'm watching about two weeks ago,
Speaker 2: I'm watching three weeks ago, I'm watching Mahomes and I
Speaker 2: saw it again Sunday and it reminds me of mj
Speaker 2: and I said this three weeks ago. I said, I
Speaker 2: think that's the best football player I've ever seen. And
Speaker 2: one of the things I remember this with Michael Jordan
Speaker 2: years ago. I was on the couch at the time
Speaker 2: with a young lady. It was Vegas years ago. And
Speaker 2: it was the Phoenix Chicago series. Barkley MJ and she
Speaker 2: was a basketball player, so she really loved the sport.
Speaker 2: And I said, there's fifty guys in this league, Michael
Speaker 2: as tall as Michael as slender. He's not the best
Speaker 2: shooter or the best ball handler. I said, you should
Speaker 2: be able to duplicate that. Nobody can. I'm like, he
Speaker 2: makes it look like so easy, I said, even the
Speaker 2: great players. Barkley, you could tell when he shifted gears,
Speaker 2: Clyde Drexler, you could tell Kobe's shifting gears. Michael be like,
Speaker 2: he get better, these beads of sweat in his head,
Speaker 2: and You're like, yeah, I think he shifted gears. That
Speaker 2: Michael was so effortless when he would flip the ball
Speaker 2: over his head when he was fouled to do. And
Speaker 2: when I watch Mahome, I'm like, is he playing eighty
Speaker 2: percent speed? This is not I can tell when Josh
Speaker 2: Allen and Lamar are trying. And I don't think it's overreacting.
Speaker 2: I've never I've never seen anything like Mahomes. I've never
Speaker 2: seen it.
Speaker 1: I haven't you still think, look, he's what he's doing
Speaker 1: at the position, because you know, we can talk about
Speaker 1: players and then the resume because we get really good
Speaker 1: at counting and you start adding it all up. It appears,
Speaker 1: especially with the throwing angles and all that stuff, that
Speaker 1: he's more gifted at physical thrower of the football than Brady.
Speaker 1: But you don't have some of the same feelings that
Speaker 1: you had about Brady. Were Brady in those big playoff
Speaker 1: spots when he dropped back, you just went, oh, like,
Speaker 1: he knows he's elevated his risk, he knows what he
Speaker 1: has to do. He doesn't have a toybody getting open
Speaker 1: on the outside right like I would see Brady in
Speaker 1: these games decide, Hey, these are the things that aren't
Speaker 1: going my way. Now I'll adjust to those in a
Speaker 1: way that I think it's a pretty short list of
Speaker 1: people that I think are even on that with him.
Speaker 2: So I felt like Brady was a math. He beat
Speaker 2: everybody at the math that Tom could go to the
Speaker 2: line of scrimmage and he just did math and he
Speaker 2: knew what you couldn't defend. He always had a very
Speaker 2: good possession guy Dion Branch, Wes Welker, Edelman. He almost
Speaker 2: always had a good tight end. Dante Scarnekia run game
Speaker 2: O line. He had protection. I felt what Tom was
Speaker 2: doing and this is not a knock. It was like chess.
Speaker 2: Tom was a math expert. He would go to the line.
Speaker 2: He knew what was coming. You couldn't throw anything at him.
Speaker 2: With Mahomes. He had a run in the Super Bowl
Speaker 2: where he ran in late it may have been overtime
Speaker 2: and fourth quarter he cut through the D line and sprinted.
Speaker 2: And there's something cognitively beyond me math that his like
Speaker 2: he can do the math too. There is something about
Speaker 2: his ability to see something and the ball is out
Speaker 2: of his hand quicker than anybody I've ever seen. That.
Speaker 2: It's brain function into ability and to release. It's like
Speaker 2: Marino plus Tom.
Speaker 1: Oh.
Speaker 2: Yeah, he runs better than both. It's just I watch
Speaker 2: him and I think it looks like it reminds me
Speaker 2: of Jordan. I'm like, is he playing at seventy percent speed?
Speaker 1: Well, yeah, I feel like I'm I'm disagreeing with you
Speaker 1: by just pushing back on that We've never seen anyone
Speaker 1: have this composure throughout a game when I watch Brady
Speaker 1: do it for twenty years. But when you want to
Speaker 1: talk about his ability in the moment, he's a He's
Speaker 1: a basket. Like the reason I've always loved basketball is
Speaker 1: that if you're really that good, you just figure out
Speaker 1: a way. You just figure out away. Like it's five
Speaker 1: on five and you know you can double Tea, but
Speaker 1: I gotta get rid of the ball. Then I'm going
Speaker 1: to come back to it and within the shot clock,
Speaker 1: Like I got to figure out a way to make
Speaker 1: this shot, because nobody great gets double team to the points, Like, hey,
Speaker 1: that guy he has zero points to the fourth coor
Speaker 1: of a playoff game, Like, you find a way once
Speaker 1: all the plays are understood and everything's breaking down and
Speaker 1: the other guy who can't shoot throws it back to you,
Speaker 1: and you have it with seven second stuff on the
Speaker 1: shot clock, huge possession game seven. You have to find
Speaker 1: a way. You're not relying on whether or not an
Speaker 1: infielder was positioned correctly or if the pitcher had it
Speaker 1: or didn't have it. If you're the cleanup hitter, you know,
Speaker 1: Like that's so codependent. And even though football's the ultimate
Speaker 1: team sport because of all the moving pieces, like, there's
Speaker 1: just so many other things that have to go into
Speaker 1: you making it work. And Mahomes has felt like the
Speaker 1: best basketball player, like he's playing football like a basketball player,
Speaker 1: where I thought that game against San Francisco was incredibly
Speaker 1: hard for him. Watching the beginning of that game, that
Speaker 1: first half, I'm like, Okay, the San Francisco d line
Speaker 1: has shown up now in a way they did not
Speaker 1: show up against Green Bay or Detroit. They're up for this,
Speaker 1: they're amped. He doesn't have guys that can win on
Speaker 1: the outside. Here. You know, where's Kelsey. Okay, there's a
Speaker 1: little bit here there. They're running right up the middle
Speaker 1: with Pacheco, and this Niners defense that was supposedly susceptible
Speaker 1: of that was shutting it down for a good chunk
Speaker 1: and it didn't look like he was comfortable. And then
Speaker 1: we saw that stat where they've gone seventeen straight possessions
Speaker 1: in the playoffs going back to the Baltimore game into
Speaker 1: the San Francisco game without a touchdown. And yet you're like,
Speaker 1: he'll figure it out, and he did. I mean, it's
Speaker 1: gotta be incredible. You want to talk about sports fandom
Speaker 1: jealousy right now? I mean, how could anyone be higher
Speaker 1: than the Chiefs Fans like who There's no one that
Speaker 1: you'd be more jealous of knowing that that guy's there
Speaker 1: going to be there a long time. And I agree
Speaker 1: with you that it feels like this one guy that
Speaker 1: can control a game where it's not supposed to be
Speaker 1: one guy that controls it. Basketball. It's supposed to happen football, it's.
Speaker 2: Not so Anyway, we were talking about something, Marsil and
Speaker 2: his gorgeous condo, we were talking about something here. So
Speaker 2: I did Vegas for soul out of college. I was
Speaker 2: very very lucky, very lucky. Didn't have I didn't make
Speaker 2: any money forever, but my first job was Vegas. So
Speaker 2: I got I got mob Vegas, I got Tark Vegas,
Speaker 2: I got Tyson Vegas. Now it's so corporatizes, so boring
Speaker 2: to me. I go to Vegas and people are like, oh,
Speaker 2: I love these corporate casinos. And I'm like, I saw
Speaker 2: Tony the en Spilatro at dinner. I'm not interested in
Speaker 2: your Vegas. So your interpretation of what you saw in Vegas.
Speaker 2: I like Miami. Miami is my Super Bowl site because
Speaker 2: I didn't do it much as a kid. I don't
Speaker 2: know it. It's lively, it's beautiful. I love Miami. Think
Speaker 2: Phoenix has overrated too many spots. What did you think
Speaker 2: of Vegas.
Speaker 1: Phoenix is a little too spread out, but yes, Scottsdale
Speaker 1: is fun because you feel like you're not necessarily in
Speaker 1: a super Bowl town, even though look, when the super
Speaker 1: Bowl is in town, it's going to take over most things.
Speaker 1: New York City was still one of the most amazing
Speaker 1: super Bowl destinations because you just couldn't even tell it
Speaker 1: was there exactly New York City. You couldn't no not it.
Speaker 2: And I went out one night and I'm like, the
Speaker 2: United Nations was there, and I'm like, super Bowl might
Speaker 2: as well have been the holiday. Nobody cared.
Speaker 1: It's It was like jarring to just realize what New
Speaker 1: York City is. Yes, it was for and even with
Speaker 1: Vegas that really can do this, probably as well as anyone.
Speaker 1: It's fairly convenient. But that Saturday, when I was leaving,
Speaker 1: I was like, get me out of here, because it
Speaker 1: was it was a lot. I mean, I've never seen
Speaker 1: a Super Bowl destination take it over, like when Philly
Speaker 1: played New England and Jacksonville about twenty years ago. That
Speaker 1: was just a bunch of frustrated young white guys pounding
Speaker 1: the shit out of each other at dive bars because
Speaker 1: they couldn't get it anywhere as bad. So that was
Speaker 1: that was maybe one of the roughest scenes I've ever seen.
Speaker 1: But Vegas is you know, really it's funny when people say,
Speaker 1: like it changes, and I know that's what you just said,
Speaker 1: but my buddies do that be like, Oh, Vegas isn't
Speaker 1: the same anymore. I'm like, You're not the same, You're different, right,
Speaker 1: So if you wanted to do the stuff that you
Speaker 1: did when you were twenty five, you could, It's just
Speaker 1: not appealing to you anymore. So I've been there three
Speaker 1: times in the last four months, which is a lot,
Speaker 1: you know, to be there that often. I hadn't been
Speaker 1: going there that often in a while. I kind of
Speaker 1: have my routine down. I love it. And look, as
Speaker 1: we get older, the fact that we can have friends
Speaker 1: in the business that we may not see except for
Speaker 1: that once a year stretch during the Super Bowl. I'm
Speaker 1: I'm in favor of it, despite your downgrading of what
Speaker 1: it was. But your experience is completely different than the
Speaker 1: rest of ours because none of us have actually lived
Speaker 1: there like you did.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and I'm not downgrading, I'm just saying, and you
Speaker 2: make a good point. When I was there, you know,
Speaker 2: I was broke. I was fresh, I was single. There
Speaker 2: was mobsters. I tell people it's a true story, opposed
Speaker 2: to the ones I just make up. But this is
Speaker 2: a true story.
Speaker 1: I go to Vegas.
Speaker 2: I drive there in my AMC pacer out of college
Speaker 2: almost breaks down in Fresno and Bakersfield. So I get
Speaker 2: over there, and so the first afternoon I check. I
Speaker 2: can't afford much. So before I meet my new bosses,
Speaker 2: I get a job at a car college. I go
Speaker 2: to the circus circus and it was the cheap room.
Speaker 2: It was like, you know, six dollars maffe nineteen dollar room.
Speaker 2: So they didn't have cell phones back then, right, So
Speaker 2: I go and I pull a slot. I kid you not, Ryan,
Speaker 2: I go down, pull a slot, first pull, first pull,
Speaker 2: seventy five dollars. Now that was a lot thirty five
Speaker 2: years ago. So I'm one of those people. I'm good
Speaker 2: at quitting stuff. I stopped. I was like, I'm taking it.
Speaker 2: I only brought like eight hundred dollars. So I call
Speaker 2: my mom later that night and I'm like, Mom, do
Speaker 2: not send money. I own this town. Do not worry
Speaker 2: about it. Ryan was there six and a half years.
Speaker 2: I never won again a slot machine first pull seventy
Speaker 2: five five grand after that, never won a nickel. So
Speaker 2: there's my Vegas story. Do you have anything that's memorable
Speaker 2: in Vegas?
Speaker 1: What a metaphor for your career? Though? Like put in
Speaker 1: minimal work and then just that is great. That is
Speaker 1: my career. I'm kidding you grind, you grind, And that's
Speaker 1: why we like each other so much. I mean, look,
Speaker 1: I have all the routine ones.
Speaker 2: Well how about this? Why did you leave? Let me
Speaker 2: ask you this. Let's go back to your first stuff.
Speaker 2: You're a Boston guy. Boston guys are the most provincial
Speaker 2: guys in the world. Some of the best guys, but
Speaker 2: Jesus they're provincial. Like they swear Boston's the best. Dunkin
Speaker 2: Donuts is the best. What was the day that you said, Shit, man,
Speaker 2: i'm gonna go I'm gonna go to Denver. I'm gonna
Speaker 2: go here, I'm gonna go that. What was the day?
Speaker 1: Why I'm different in that I always maybe I'm so
Speaker 1: much about the grass is always greener. Then I'll just
Speaker 1: sit there and think, like, well, if I just move
Speaker 1: somewhere else, I really always want I wanted to try la.
Speaker 1: I don't know what it was. It was I remember
Speaker 1: I told my dad when I was like a little kid,
Speaker 1: I'm talking like a really little kid, And that might
Speaker 1: have just been because I was in a Motley crue
Speaker 1: at the time, in like sixth grade, where I was like,
Speaker 1: I just want to see what this is like, although
Speaker 1: that would have been horrifying to actually see it at
Speaker 1: that age. And then later on, like right after college,
Speaker 1: I remember just going like, at some point, I'm gonna
Speaker 1: move out there. But then I didn't really know what
Speaker 1: I was gonna do. I wanted to write before I
Speaker 1: wanted to be on the air or do any sports stuff.
Speaker 1: So the first job I got was on the air,
Speaker 1: even though I wasn't really even trying to get on
Speaker 1: the air. And we've been over this, you know, like
Speaker 1: the minor league baseball, and so now I'm like stuck
Speaker 1: back on the vineyard and for everybody the romanticizes like
Speaker 1: where I'm from and all that kind of stuff, like
Speaker 1: to be there year round is rough. Okay, that's not
Speaker 1: that's not the brochures. Those aren't the Creighton barrel people
Speaker 1: with the ad Irondack chairs, right, these are year round.
Speaker 1: I'm not telling you. It's like dangerous or tough, but
Speaker 1: it wasn't. It wasn't like even close to what the
Speaker 1: perception is. So when I'm there at twenty seven and
Speaker 1: I'm living in a cottage that isn't winterized because I'm
Speaker 1: fixing it up so that i could live there for free,
Speaker 1: you know, Boston at the time was a huge improvement,
Speaker 1: even though I was living in this like slum in
Speaker 1: Summerville with guys that I would say weren't exactly like
Speaker 1: mapping out their careers the way I was planning on it.
Speaker 1: That at that point, like I could only go where
Speaker 1: I could afford to stay. So ultimately, from that point on,
Speaker 1: it took me fifteen years to even get out to
Speaker 1: la even though I knew the entire time I had
Speaker 1: to try it because I'd only lived in New England.
Speaker 1: I lived in Connecticut, I lived in Massachusetts, I lived
Speaker 1: in Vermont, I lived in Massachusetts, and then I lived
Speaker 1: in Connecticut. And that was all the way up until
Speaker 1: like forty two years old. So I'm a bit more adventurous,
Speaker 1: I think, from other guys. But I also respect the
Speaker 1: fact that, you know, if you get along with your
Speaker 1: family and you're close and you're having kids and starting
Speaker 1: your own family. It can be an unbelief like these
Speaker 1: suburbs of Boston that my friends are from from college,
Speaker 1: and they're all close to each other, and they're on
Speaker 1: the softball teams and they you know, sometimes I think
Speaker 1: aspiration can drive you fucking crazy, because then I'll look
Speaker 1: at that and go they maybe those guys had it
Speaker 1: figured it out because they weren't constantly thinking about exploring
Speaker 1: or the next thing. So I wouldn't do it any differently.
Speaker 1: You know, these I know who I am at this
Speaker 1: point in my life. But there's something that I envy
Speaker 1: in simple sounds like the wrong term because it sounds
Speaker 1: like a negative term, but just understanding like I want
Speaker 1: to be near my family. I want to grow up
Speaker 1: grow up where I grew up. I want my kids
Speaker 1: to grow up in the same place. I want my
Speaker 1: relatives coming over and all the cousins playing together. I
Speaker 1: didn't care about any of those things, right, and that's
Speaker 1: why I moved.
Speaker 2: Yeah, No, it's interesting. My wife is from Birmingham, Michigan,
Speaker 2: which is a pretty tony, upscale burb of Townshend Hotel
Speaker 2: of Detroit, and I remember the first time she went there,
Speaker 2: I was like, this is this. I don't even I
Speaker 2: can't even relate. I mean, it was so upscale. Now
Speaker 2: she grew up childhood, divorced, you know, smallest house in
Speaker 2: this gorgeous town. But I mean you I remember thinking
Speaker 2: when I left there, I was like, man, if I'd
Speaker 2: have grown up here, I would have been a sportscaster
Speaker 2: in Detroit. I'm not leaving like this is We went
Speaker 2: there on a Friday night and I told her it
Speaker 2: was like beautiful shopping condos. I'm like, this is it?
Speaker 1: Yeah? There?
Speaker 2: Why that would kill aspiration? I grew up in a rinky, small, cold,
Speaker 2: you know, unemployment twenty eight percent town. It wasn't aspiration,
Speaker 2: it was there was no choice. There was no employment, right,
Speaker 2: So it's.
Speaker 1: Right, right, yeah, right, you're like being trying to get
Speaker 1: I was at home sending out resume letters to teams
Speaker 1: while I was working construction, and coming home and staying
Speaker 1: at my parents' house, like making a sandwich and then
Speaker 1: going back out like I'd come back and make a
Speaker 1: turkey sandwich, check emails. Nobody was going to give me
Speaker 1: a job. And at that point you're like, well, look
Speaker 1: this is hard, but hey, where are you? Oh I'm
Speaker 1: on Martha's Vineyard for the Winner, Like, well, all right,
Speaker 1: well then we can't do a lunch, not going to
Speaker 1: take Like even when I was in West Hartford, in
Speaker 1: which I think you would agree, like that's the job.
Speaker 1: And at that point with ESPN, it was I don't care,
Speaker 1: this could the Connecticut didn't bother me at all or
Speaker 1: we lived. It was a nice era where we lived.
Speaker 1: I was d of thought, like I'd hear from people
Speaker 1: from other parts of the country and I'm like, where
Speaker 1: where the fuck are you from? Yeah, Carmel, Okay, you
Speaker 1: got it, But like you know, there's other places where
Speaker 1: I go. You think that place is better than this,
Speaker 1: Like this is fine, Yeah it is a New England guy, like,
Speaker 1: I was totally fine with it. But it got to
Speaker 1: a point too where and I think a lot you
Speaker 1: would agree with this. There's just something about the energy
Speaker 1: of a big city, especially with creators, where you're constantly
Speaker 1: running into people that you're not running into in so
Speaker 1: many parts, and for some people they want nothing to
Speaker 1: do with it. And I again, I wouldn't judge anybody
Speaker 1: for it.
Speaker 2: Yeah, No, I mean, my wife and I love Chicago.
Speaker 2: I thought Connecticut was met really cool people and liked it.
Speaker 2: You know, speaking of that, let's let's pivot to this.
Speaker 2: So you and I go to a certain place, don't
Speaker 2: you know, the nine hundred club in Manhattan Beach. So
Speaker 2: I ran into Ship Kelly a couple of times in
Speaker 2: the last month. So I had a pretty good inkling that,
Speaker 2: you know, an offensive coordinator gig maybe in the offing.
Speaker 2: The second thing is I ran into Lawrence Frank. I
Speaker 2: sat down to have a cobb salad and a beer
Speaker 2: because I just worked out, and I thought, eat clean,
Speaker 2: get home. Lawrence Frank is next to me who runs
Speaker 2: the Clippers. Really nice guy, and it was fascinating that
Speaker 2: let's pivot to this. So as we kind of move
Speaker 2: into the NBA season, I told him, I said the Lawrence,
Speaker 2: I said, I know you don't listen to your a
Speaker 2: busy guy, but holy shit that I miss on this.
Speaker 2: I was like, this hardened thing, give me a break.
Speaker 2: Where's Westbrook going to play? The chemistry? And he was
Speaker 2: really interesting. He said, you know, at this point in James' career, shit,
Speaker 2: he wants to be coached and win. He got money,
Speaker 2: he got fame, he just wants to win games. I
Speaker 2: have watched probably six of their last seven games. And
Speaker 2: I don't know if I told you this. It is
Speaker 2: the most enjoyable NBA offense in my opinion, to watch
Speaker 2: mid range transition threes, multiple wing scores and defenders. I
Speaker 2: honestly think Boston and Denver and the Clippers to me
Speaker 2: feel different the rest of the league. Now the Clippers
Speaker 2: have some scoring on the bench, Celtics Denver don't really
Speaker 2: But I've never said this in my life. A I
Speaker 2: was totally wrong in b I do feel like the
Speaker 2: Clippers could win a championship.
Speaker 1: I'm with you on thinking it could happen. But you're
Speaker 1: also telling me Kawhi and Paul George are going to
Speaker 1: be healthy at the end of the year, which has
Speaker 1: not been a good health bet. They're the worst health
Speaker 1: bet of any of the contenders. But I did a
Speaker 1: pod probably a week ago after watching them go on
Speaker 1: this ridiculous stretch where you're like, Okay, you know this
Speaker 1: is significant. We're talking about a twenty seven and six stretch.
Speaker 1: Although by the time we're taping this, it was pretty
Speaker 1: alarming seeing Minnesota handle them so well, and it's the
Speaker 1: second time they played them, which you know, there's some
Speaker 1: matchup stuff with that. That had me thinking about, wow,
Speaker 1: you know, they really bogged them down. But yeah, look,
Speaker 1: Kawhi has played at a level that's almost like Pa
Speaker 1: Kawhi again, and he's been playing most of the season.
Speaker 1: Paul George, who we knew put up massive numbers, was
Speaker 1: one of the ten most talented players. I thought he
Speaker 1: had a lot of playoff awards that were legitimate. I mean,
Speaker 1: he had an elimination game with Oklahoma City. It was
Speaker 1: terrible when they blew the three to one lead to
Speaker 1: Denver at the end of that. I mean, it was
Speaker 1: just bad. So it was kind of like, hey, is
Speaker 1: he one of these guys? And I thought once everybody
Speaker 1: else was gone and they took out Utah a few
Speaker 1: years ago, and it was all on him and he
Speaker 1: had no choice. He had no one else to even
Speaker 1: defer to that. I think he's I hope for his
Speaker 1: sake that he's turned the page on that a little bit.
Speaker 1: But I was with Ian Harden. I just didn't think
Speaker 1: he's somebody you'd want to get into business with. It
Speaker 1: had been the third team. He had quit on the
Speaker 1: fourth trade demand, which I don't really blame him for
Speaker 1: the first one, because he wanted to make his money,
Speaker 1: and Oklahoma City wanted to pay Durant, Westbrook and Obaca
Speaker 1: so that one didn't bother me. The end of Houston
Speaker 1: bothered me, the end of Brooklyn bothered me. And the
Speaker 1: Philly one, I mean, I thought he was he was
Speaker 1: very peak and valley again in the playoffs when they
Speaker 1: needed the most and they blow the three two lead
Speaker 1: to Boston, and I I've shocked people with this because
Speaker 1: they know I don't really like him, and I don't
Speaker 1: like the way he's officiated and all that stuff. At
Speaker 1: none of it's really personal. I don't know the guy.
Speaker 1: Maybe he's sounds like people love hanging out with them,
Speaker 1: so he he thought he was getting the big money,
Speaker 1: but he took thirteen million less, and Philly's adamant that
Speaker 1: nothing was ever understood. And I'm always like, I don't
Speaker 1: know a lot of guys that just leave thirteen million
Speaker 1: on the table without thinking the extension is coming to
Speaker 1: make up for it. He doesn't play well enough against
Speaker 1: the Celtics that extension now is whatever was talked about,
Speaker 1: depending on who you want to believe. But when he
Speaker 1: had been traded finally, Colin, even though Lawrence Frank is
Speaker 1: telling you, hey, he wants to win, he wants to
Speaker 1: be coach. His first answer was, I want to go
Speaker 1: somewhere I can get paid. It just so happens to
Speaker 1: be a contender from an area that's close to where
Speaker 1: he's from and with an owner that has the deepest
Speaker 1: pockets of anybody. And I think the lesson in all
Speaker 1: of this is that Harden would have been super unappealing
Speaker 1: for a lot of other scenarios where it's still a
Speaker 1: no for those teams. But credit to the Clippers, the culture,
Speaker 1: having the other guys established, he doesn't have to be
Speaker 1: the guy he's probably going to get paid, and now
Speaker 1: that he's the third guy, he can have those playoff
Speaker 1: duds which are all over littered throughout his game log
Speaker 1: in his playoff history, where he could maybe even still
Speaker 1: have one of those, and it won't matter because the
Speaker 1: way the rest of the team is built.
Speaker 2: So you mentioned Boston, we know your connection to that city.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: I was getting into this, I think a couple of
Speaker 2: weeks ago on my show, I said, you can really
Speaker 2: you can really tell very early in a relationship with
Speaker 2: a friend or an athlete, people show their their strengths, weaknesses,
Speaker 2: their fears. Their aspirations really early, and you see it
Speaker 2: with pro athletes. There's very few guys that develop into
Speaker 2: four years later a star. You can see early the aspiration,
Speaker 2: the toughness, Michael's relentlessness, Kobe's kind of selfishness. You read
Speaker 2: the Kobe stories when he broke into the league. He
Speaker 2: was shit talking guys, he was nineteen. I said this
Speaker 2: about Jason Tatum. He's shown us who he is, absolutely gifted,
Speaker 2: top eight to nine player in the league. You can
Speaker 2: put him at wherever you want, But there is an
Speaker 2: argument that he's not like aggressively relentlessly alpha. I mean,
Speaker 2: he's a dude. He wants the ball. But I've seen
Speaker 2: so many times where Jalen Brown, who's athletic as hell
Speaker 2: but not as gifted, not as pure, well just take
Speaker 2: the ball. I saw Marcus Smart do it. And I
Speaker 2: keep saying to myself, I like Jason Tatum, but because
Speaker 2: he trained with Kobe or because generally the best domestic
Speaker 2: player in our country has that that like almost selfishness,
Speaker 2: and I'm like, he doesn't.
Speaker 1: Really.
Speaker 2: He's told us who he is. He can be a one,
Speaker 2: but he doesn't feel like the killer. Is that too broad?
Speaker 2: Or do you feel like I mean, I feel like,
Speaker 2: come on, we're in what year six, year seven? I
Speaker 2: kind of know what he is an he's a one,
Speaker 2: but there's a certain thing I don't feel he has
Speaker 2: that grabbed the game by the throat thing that like
Speaker 2: Luca showed me in year one, Kolbe showed me at nineteen.
Speaker 2: I don't feel that with him.
Speaker 1: Yeah, Like I saw somebody breaking down Caleb Williams the
Speaker 1: other day and said he's not Patrick Mahomes, And I
Speaker 1: was like, okay, Like should we add an extra episode
Speaker 1: of the podcast this week? Like what do you want
Speaker 1: me to do with this information? All right? If you're
Speaker 1: telling me, like I look at that group of players
Speaker 1: that completely change who you are as a franchise and
Speaker 1: elevate you to the point where they're in their prime
Speaker 1: that you're contending for a championship, you know. I love
Speaker 1: the draft. We start talking about some of these guys,
Speaker 1: I'm like, look, we're lucky to get one of these
Speaker 1: guys every five years, you know, but when it comes
Speaker 1: draft time, you're talking about he maybe this is the
Speaker 1: face of the franchise and maybe this guy actually that
Speaker 1: list is like this. You know, we saw top five
Speaker 1: all the time. I think it's Jokic, I think it's Jannis,
Speaker 1: I think it's Luca, I think it's Embiid And then
Speaker 1: I think everybody's kind of fighting for five again, whether
Speaker 1: it was Kawhi for a stretch, whether it's Durant, and
Speaker 1: I think Tatum gets put into that group. And Tatum
Speaker 1: reminds me a lot of like your home quarterback, where
Speaker 1: people that don't watch the quarterback you watch every week
Speaker 1: might like him more because you see some more of
Speaker 1: the warts. So your criticisms are fair, but what you're
Speaker 1: asking him to be is like in that top four group,
Speaker 1: and that might not happen. And when it comes to
Speaker 1: the toughness part of it, I think the Celtics get
Speaker 1: talk about like incredibly unfairly. They get talked about like
Speaker 1: they're the Sixers with their playoff failures. The Sixers can't
Speaker 1: get out of the second round, all right, And and
Speaker 1: the number of teams that would love the failures of
Speaker 1: the Boston Celtics with this group in the playoff, I
Speaker 1: think that's a pretty long list. And even though there
Speaker 1: are moments where I watch Tatum and you're right, we're visual,
Speaker 1: so his personality seems more subdued. Okay, yes, you know
Speaker 1: everybody wants every guy to be Kobe and fucking pulling
Speaker 1: their jersey and sticking their lower jaw out and honestly
Speaker 1: taking a lot of really bad shots. But it didn't matter.
Speaker 1: Like Kobe was the killer because he's soldest on the
Speaker 1: image of him being a killer, and Tatum doesn't do that.
Speaker 1: But Tatum dropped fifty one in an elimination game against
Speaker 1: the Sixers instead of game seven record last year, after
Speaker 1: step had said it previously at fifty against Sacramento. He
Speaker 1: had forty six in an elimination game against the Bucks.
Speaker 1: You know, they won a Game seven at Miami. You know, look,
Speaker 1: I'm sorry they lost the finals. I still can't believe
Speaker 1: they lost the Miami Heat last year at three. Yeah,
Speaker 1: but there's a lot of stuff there on the resume
Speaker 1: that tells you the thing you might be asking for.
Speaker 1: You might be right, it might be unobtainable for him,
Speaker 1: but man, he's really close to that. So I guess
Speaker 1: I just this isn't I think, you know me like
Speaker 1: I'm whenever I hear about their failures or their lack
Speaker 1: of toughness, I go, Man, if they weren't any like
Speaker 1: if there was zero toughness, right, be losing some of
Speaker 1: these other series. You know, we lose the bucks a
Speaker 1: few years ago, like.
Speaker 2: The first two years I watched Andrew Wiggins, I went
Speaker 2: for some no. I mean, I went with three t
Speaker 2: Wolve games in LA and I'm like, yeah, twenty six,
Speaker 2: don't remember a bucket? Not a bucket, right, And I
Speaker 2: remember telling a radio guy from Minnesota, I know, I'm like, dude,
Speaker 2: that's not it. That's not a one. That that may
Speaker 2: be a three. I always feel Tatum's a one. He
Speaker 2: never disappears like Wiggins. He was visible one.
Speaker 1: Tatum's a one, but he's not on that list that
Speaker 1: you're hoping he gets to. And we agree on that.
Speaker 2: Yeah, And I think that's fair. I think that's a
Speaker 2: good way to put it. The you know, I was
Speaker 2: I was saying today on the show that it's nothing
Speaker 2: against Kyle or Purdy or Garoppolo or Bosa. Just Tiger
Speaker 2: was the best in the world and he's going to
Speaker 2: win most tournaments and Mahomes is just sick and it's
Speaker 2: nobody's fault. And I said this, I said, great shrinks,
Speaker 2: very good. There's a lot of good streamers. Netflix shrinks
Speaker 2: all of them. There's a lot of good retailers. Amazon
Speaker 2: shrinks all of them. There's a lot of good sports.
Speaker 2: I've never watched more sports. The NFL shrinks everybody. And
Speaker 2: I was saying, the NBA feels niche and the only
Speaker 2: thing I was talking to Nick right about that, and
Speaker 2: he loves the sport and I do too. I now
Speaker 2: started about three weeks ago, I started really pivoting to
Speaker 2: watching a lot of NBA stuff, and I said, the
Speaker 2: only thing I worry about with the NBA is what's
Speaker 2: happening is hockey. Baseball in the NBA are incredibly global now.
Speaker 2: And whereas the NFL's farm system is really easy to follow,
Speaker 2: it's going to get even easier with a big ten
Speaker 2: in the SEC dominating. I watch a block eye for
Speaker 2: three years. I can't wait to watch Marvin Harrison and
Speaker 2: the pros. I can't wait to watch Caleb JJ mccarr.
Speaker 2: I can't I know the story. I'm cooked. Yeah, I'm
Speaker 2: viscerally hooked at this stuff that I said, what happens
Speaker 2: the baseball hockey In the end, I'm not going to
Speaker 2: follow an international farm system. So these great international guys
Speaker 2: the best players will go to crappy teams. I won't
Speaker 2: watch a ton of them for four years because no
Speaker 2: young player dominates the playoffs. And I said that I
Speaker 2: worry about the NBA is always going to be interesting
Speaker 2: and star driven, but it's becoming so global and so
Speaker 2: international it's harder as the NFL is this domestic monster,
Speaker 2: this Amazon, this Netflix. I don't have a problem with Silver.
Speaker 2: I like the players Esthetically, it's a little three point driven,
Speaker 2: but the playoffs get more situational and mid range, so
Speaker 2: I'm cool with it. What do you make of that
Speaker 2: assertion that it just in America right now? It's like
Speaker 2: England everything is small compared to the EPL. In Canada,
Speaker 2: everything small to hockey. It's just there is no two.
Speaker 2: It's the NFL and then just find your lane.
Speaker 1: Well the correlation make between college and the pros. For
Speaker 1: those of us that love both Saturday and Sunday, I
Speaker 1: think we like prequels right as an audience, once we
Speaker 1: know about somebody. You know, that's a little different with
Speaker 1: television and movies, but in sports, we love prequels. It's
Speaker 1: why the f one thing blew up, Okay, because now
Speaker 1: it's like we I never thought I'd be interested in this,
Speaker 1: but the television show was so good that now I
Speaker 1: know the backstory of every one of these guys. It's
Speaker 1: actually easy to keep track of and it's very event driven.
Speaker 1: The inventory is limited. You're never gonna get any owners
Speaker 1: in baseball to give up that six month inventory, and
Speaker 1: I don't blame them. All right, You're not gonna give
Speaker 1: up eighty two games from NBA owners because even if
Speaker 1: it's a dud on a Tuesday and it doesn't pull
Speaker 1: a great number, it's still doing better because it's live
Speaker 1: and it still matters, and there's still people like you.
Speaker 1: You're not gonna go, oh man, let's just have less games,
Speaker 1: less people coming through the turnstiles, because that way we
Speaker 1: can make it more eventrive. And although I do think
Speaker 1: that Silver has done a really good job with you know,
Speaker 1: I don't love the playing tournament because I think there's
Speaker 1: certain years there'll be a seed in there that has
Speaker 1: no business having to prove itself all over again with
Speaker 1: one extra game. You know, we're a ten seed's going
Speaker 1: to have an awful record. Now, granted they've got to
Speaker 1: do more work by winning two, but that's an event
Speaker 1: and he's He's been talking about this as it relates
Speaker 1: to the n Season Tournament, where the model of soccer
Speaker 1: of like, yeah, we'll have the eighty two, but let's
Speaker 1: try to find a way to have something a bit
Speaker 1: more event driven as another product that's drawing more eyeballs in.
Speaker 1: And I thought the n Season Tournament was an absolute
Speaker 1: home run now that he already understands it, understands the
Speaker 1: way the pool system works and the you know, the
Speaker 1: point differential, which I hope stays because that was actually
Speaker 1: really funny. I think he's trying to find a way
Speaker 1: to have more events in the basketball calendar because nothing
Speaker 1: can match the event status of the NFL. I mean
Speaker 1: that being your goal is an impossibility because you know,
Speaker 1: a lot of it just comes down. Look, people love
Speaker 1: the sport, but the inventory is so limited. That's why
Speaker 1: you're driving these huge number. If the Super Bowl's best
Speaker 1: to seven, one hundred and twenty five million, people aren't
Speaker 1: watching it, yes, s or of Sunday.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah no. And I think I like the n
Speaker 2: Season Tournament a lot. I one of the things I've
Speaker 2: argued about Darryl Morris argued this. He says playoffs should
Speaker 2: be a one game thing, and I'm like, no, I'm
Speaker 2: not doing that. A bad referee call shouldn't decide an
Speaker 2: NBA series. But I have said if I could tweak
Speaker 2: the NBA, I would go to a three teamer first
Speaker 2: round five, the rest of the way. Seven finals create
Speaker 2: just a bit more urgency. So if the inferior team
Speaker 2: picks off a Game one, You're like, shit, I have
Speaker 2: to watch this. I don't have a choice, even if
Speaker 2: I'm a casual. It's like, my friends in New York
Speaker 2: are all watching it. We just upset the Bucks. We're
Speaker 2: watching game two.
Speaker 1: Period.
Speaker 2: I think that's about the only thing I'd tweak. You're
Speaker 2: not gonna tweak the regular season much because you know
Speaker 2: a lot of these arenas have contracts with the game.
Speaker 1: I mean, like, I don't you know, I just oh,
Speaker 1: the season is too long. Well, you could just watch
Speaker 1: less of it, you know, Like, I just don't understand
Speaker 1: how a baseball person who may have loved baseball before
Speaker 1: but doesn't like it now goes out there's too many games. Hey,
Speaker 1: everybody's get the internet now, it's super easy. You pull
Speaker 1: up with the standings. Hey, my team six out, all right,
Speaker 1: it's August. Let's play some ball, right, Oh it doesn't.
Speaker 1: It's not really. And we're definitely more picky, We're more selective,
Speaker 1: we have more options. I mean, everybody understands this, but
Speaker 1: the single elimination thing for the NBA makes me laugh
Speaker 1: because if I were Daryl Morey running the Rockets trying
Speaker 1: to beat the Warriors, I'd probably be like, can we
Speaker 1: just play play them once? And hope the threes don't
Speaker 1: go down? Right? But you know what I mean, Like
Speaker 1: whenever I hear we love fixing shit though, like, yeah,
Speaker 1: Twitter has made everybody an expert on how to like, hey,
Speaker 1: here's this thing that's pretty good and everybody likes it.
Speaker 1: Here's my seven ways to fix it a thread and
Speaker 1: you're just like, we don't, we don't need to. We're
Speaker 1: tweaking everything.
Speaker 2: Also, everybody, because of social media, has to have an
Speaker 2: opinion on everybody. I remember about a year ago a
Speaker 2: Bill mahershow called and they hey, you want to come
Speaker 2: on the show? I said sure, And they ran down
Speaker 2: these topics and you got to have a big opinion
Speaker 2: on everything and they're like, what do you make a
Speaker 2: transgender in sports? And I said, fuck if I know.
Speaker 2: I'm like, is it like if I was a scientist.
Speaker 2: Is it a testosterone level? Like if you test over
Speaker 2: this level, then you compete against men under women. I'm like,
Speaker 2: first of all, I never think about it. I don't
Speaker 2: know the answer. Is it biology? Is it politics? And
Speaker 2: I'm like, I don't really have an opinion on it.
Speaker 2: I'm not woke. I'm not avoiding it.
Speaker 1: I get more woke though people have been asking how
Speaker 1: woke you haven't seen that treading.
Speaker 2: It's like, I just don't have an opinion on everything.
Speaker 2: It's like I don't give a shit.
Speaker 1: It's now. They used to do that with me on
Speaker 1: Sports Center, not Bill Maher, and they'd be like, Hey,
Speaker 1: we're going to a block we're gonna do Like, do
Speaker 1: you have a different way to do Lebron MJ. I
Speaker 1: was like, I don't have any new ways to do it?
Speaker 1: Like I haven't. I don't have a new one. I'm
Speaker 1: not gonna have one for years.
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Speaker 2: Terms and responsible gaming resources. You know, it's interesting about
Speaker 2: the pod business is that you're a broadcaster who's excelled
Speaker 2: at podcasting. A lot of podcasters are just podcasters and
Speaker 2: they've never done radio TV, but they're very good at it.
Speaker 2: They're loose. You you really spend time on your pod
Speaker 2: like you you prepare like you would a radio show,
Speaker 2: and most podcasters kind of wing it. Some are funny,
Speaker 2: some are but I can tell they're winging it. You
Speaker 2: attack it a little differently where it's like it's almost
Speaker 2: like you take your writing skills and your radio skills
Speaker 2: and they converge and they meet it podcasting where there's
Speaker 2: clear preparation interview skills. Not everybody does it that way.
Speaker 2: I tend to again because I'm a broadcaster, not a podcaster.
Speaker 2: I'm a broadcaster who can do a pod, but I'm
Speaker 2: not you know, I have certain rules. I'm not going
Speaker 2: to go into certain places where some podcasters go. I'm like,
Speaker 2: I'm a broadcaster, I'm paid by Fox, and iHeart like,
Speaker 2: you know, I don't I think you know. I mean,
Speaker 2: at the end of the day, good for you, by
Speaker 2: the way. Yeah, So I just there's places I'm not
Speaker 2: going to go. But it is interesting because the podcast
Speaker 2: space in the gambling space. I always think about this.
Speaker 2: I think, you know, Europe's way ahead of us on gambling.
Speaker 2: I think we're probably in the fourth inning. Podcasting is
Speaker 2: fascinating because now older people at the gym will come
Speaker 2: up to me and say, it's all I listen to.
Speaker 2: I can't do the commercials or radio. And I'll be like, oh,
Speaker 2: you're sixty Like you're sixty four years old.
Speaker 1: Right, and this isn't a reason you're with a tablet
Speaker 1: who doesn't watch TV? You know, right?
Speaker 2: And it's so And I was thinking about this, like
Speaker 2: everything's fluid in our industry. I don't even know if
Speaker 2: what I'll be on or where I'll be in what platform,
Speaker 2: or if I will who the hell knows what will happen.
Speaker 2: I'll work somewhere. But if I if I said to
Speaker 2: you with podcasting, uh, and I want to put your
Speaker 2: prediction hat on in in five to ten years. I mean,
Speaker 2: remember ten years ago, I was told streaming would own
Speaker 2: everything and all the networks have all the good games
Speaker 2: in football, Like they're not giving this shit up. There's
Speaker 2: too much. I mean, it's like the banks were too
Speaker 2: big to fail. Networks are all built around the NFL.
Speaker 2: They're not giving this shit up without a fight. I'm sorry.
Speaker 2: Fox has an eleven year deal starts this year. They're
Speaker 2: not going away. You know two b's making money Fox News.
Speaker 2: They're gonna spend billions a year to get a period.
Speaker 2: Do you think podcastings in the seventh inning, the third,
Speaker 2: the fourth you know it better than I do. Where
Speaker 2: do you think it's going?
Speaker 1: I don't know if I know it better than you do,
Speaker 1: because I'll admit, like, I didn't think it was going
Speaker 1: to take off like this, because I still thought that
Speaker 1: people would want a live show. You know, I grew
Speaker 1: up as a live sports talk radio fan, not thinking
Speaker 1: I was ever really going to do it. And hell man,
Speaker 1: I still listen to sports talk radio. Yeah, no, I
Speaker 1: just like it, you know. Same. There's guys I like,
Speaker 1: there's guys I think are hacks, and I still listen
Speaker 1: to both. Yep, same, all right, yeah, And I don't
Speaker 1: know that might just be a habit thing like both
Speaker 1: in you know, you and I've been around long, like
Speaker 1: all when we're working like local markets and stuff, and
Speaker 1: they are trying to find a way to change the
Speaker 1: habit of the listener in that market and realizing it is.
Speaker 1: So it's the why baseball is on all these local stations,
Speaker 1: because the people turn the baseball game off and then
Speaker 1: they wake up and then they're listening to the morning
Speaker 1: show on the station that they just turned off, and
Speaker 1: they've listened to them for a little while and they're like,
Speaker 1: I'll just keep it here. So for podcasting to disrupt
Speaker 1: the pattern of behavior here for audio listeners crazy, and
Speaker 1: this short amount of time is incredible, and like people
Speaker 1: can make fun of everybody having one. And you know
Speaker 1: a line I use a lot with younger people is that,
Speaker 1: you know, back when you and I were getting started,
Speaker 1: the idea that somebody would pick you and go here's
Speaker 1: your money, now go beyond the air. I'm the first
Speaker 1: person to say it's okay, I'm going to give you
Speaker 1: this opportunity. It still feels impossible looking back, and how
Speaker 1: I started was impossible, And I'm sure you have your
Speaker 1: moment you're like, I can't believe this is happening to
Speaker 1: me because it's so incredibly hard. So I'll always tell
Speaker 1: people like, back then, the line was longer, but it
Speaker 1: was thinner. Now the line is shorter, but it's really
Speaker 1: wide right, because I mean think of if I had
Speaker 1: told you at twenty five, Hey, with the right program
Speaker 1: and with this new thing called podcasting, you can be
Speaker 1: on the air tomorrow. Now. Now you get to sift
Speaker 1: through a finding a way to people pay attention, which
Speaker 1: is his own challenge. So it's not a guaranteed thing
Speaker 1: of success, but at least you can actually do the act.
Speaker 1: You can do it, so when people look at how
Speaker 1: flooded it is, I think it's like a lot of things. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's easy to do, but if you want to be
Speaker 1: really great at it, you get to figure out what
Speaker 1: your thing is. It separates you from everybody else and
Speaker 1: you and I had massive, massive advantages because the first
Speaker 1: thing I always made a priority when I did radio
Speaker 1: was organizing my thoughts, like if I have a point, Okay,
Speaker 1: what's the point? How am I building the point? And
Speaker 1: will I be convincing at the end of the That's
Speaker 1: all we're really doing. But in radio, I'm trying to
Speaker 1: do how many of those a day? Your solo all
Speaker 1: the time? Like the standard for podcasting, Like, I know
Speaker 1: I can sell my monologues pretty good. I got three
Speaker 1: of them a week. You're doing. What are we talking about,
Speaker 1: like sixty segments a week? Yeah, And I remember one
Speaker 1: time we were talking about a ESPN You're like, yeah,
Speaker 1: I'm gonna I know, I'm gonna have like three segments
Speaker 1: of show out of the twelve. Like that wasn't good.
Speaker 1: You could turn the page a little bit better on
Speaker 1: it than I could. Like I knew when I was
Speaker 1: having a bad segment, I'd be like, this is so
Speaker 1: incredibly frustrating. So the fact that this habit changing thing
Speaker 1: has already happened, I don't think the market being flooded
Speaker 1: with a bunch of different people, everything just kind of
Speaker 1: weeds itself out. People get sick of it and go hey,
Speaker 1: you know, because you probably met people too that are like,
Speaker 1: oh wait, this is kind of hard, Like this is
Speaker 1: kind of hard to do this all the time. So
Speaker 1: I don't know. Sometimes I wonder if the live thing
Speaker 1: is underserved, But I can't imagine that there'd ever be
Speaker 1: such demand that it would somehow pivot to that. You know,
Speaker 1: I don't know that it would ever pivot back to
Speaker 1: where the radio people are making the money that they
Speaker 1: were making years ago. If anything, it kind of proves
Speaker 1: that everybody was on the air, especially the opinion people,
Speaker 1: the content people, how incredibly underpaid everybody was really you know,
Speaker 1: I mean, nobody wants to hear it from us. But
Speaker 1: when I think about the numbers we were arguing over
Speaker 1: all the time, and then think about the numbers that
Speaker 1: exist now if you're at the high end of this thing,
Speaker 1: you're like, so we were all just getting destroyed for
Speaker 1: twenty years.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, Now we were.
Speaker 1: Like, can you imagine Dan and Keith, Like what Dan
Speaker 1: and Keith are worth at the peak of what they
Speaker 1: were doing in the nineties for the Big Show edition
Speaker 1: of Sports Center, and what that value would be now
Speaker 1: in this space. That's like twenty million a pop for
Speaker 1: each of them. Yeah right.
Speaker 2: I mean that's why you have to love what you do,
Speaker 2: if you you know, I always say there's a sea
Speaker 2: of money, go find good management that if you're driven
Speaker 2: by money, you'll wear yourself out. It's like, you know,
Speaker 2: it's like an act. You gotta love the art to
Speaker 2: some degree. Maybe maybe Rock doesn't care, maybe he does,
Speaker 2: I don't know, but you gotta love the art. You
Speaker 2: love writing. You can't love it for the money. It's
Speaker 2: too fucking hard. You have to love it for the
Speaker 2: for the mental exercise, the storytelling, like I always look.
Speaker 2: I mean, that's why I never compare salaries. I mean,
Speaker 2: stephen A and this and that. Stephen A is great.
Speaker 2: Whatever he gets, he gets like I got mortgages to pay.
Speaker 2: I just don't care if I feel I'm being treated fairly.
Speaker 1: I'm good spoken, like somebody who's been paid well for
Speaker 1: a long time.
Speaker 2: I get out of here.
Speaker 1: That's one of my favorite things at ESPN. With the
Speaker 1: guys that always told you to never worry about anybody
Speaker 1: else's salary, we're killing.
Speaker 2: It pretty good.
Speaker 1: Point.
Speaker 2: So you and I are very similar on a lot
Speaker 2: of things, and we don't see a ton of each other,
Speaker 2: but we see each other a half dozen times a year,
Speaker 2: and I think, you know, I clearly respect you, and
Speaker 2: you've been always so good to me. And one of
Speaker 2: the things that was sort of alarming when social media
Speaker 2: began is that like one small town newspaper person could
Speaker 2: have a take and it would inflame the internet. One
Speaker 2: rando on a Reddit board could say something, and corporations
Speaker 2: are scaling back and firing people, and that a lot
Speaker 2: of the media. You know, I think it's pretty clear
Speaker 2: at newspapers for years kind of leaned left, probably seventy
Speaker 2: seventy five percent, which is probably healthy. Like a stand
Speaker 2: up comedian's funner when he's fighting for the little guy,
Speaker 2: he's not on the corporate side. I kind of like
Speaker 2: my media and my comedians to be a little off
Speaker 2: center and fighting uphill, not not rolling down here hill
Speaker 2: and the little guy. But one of the things I
Speaker 2: think about all the time is whenever I hear Roger
Speaker 2: Goodell get criticized, I'm like a media guy. Everyone run
Speaker 2: a business, because I do. And there's not a week
Speaker 2: when there isn't a landmine, like you have no idea.
Speaker 2: And I watched the NBA and I watched Goodell deal
Speaker 2: with social causes and social strife, and he's handled it
Speaker 2: really well. And it was really interesting. Looking at the
Speaker 2: TV ratings after the Super Bowl, I thought, yeah, they're
Speaker 2: all up, and we like celebrities with our sports. We
Speaker 2: don't like politics. The Kaepernick thing hurt ratings, And I
Speaker 2: thought to myself, you've never met anybody in real life
Speaker 2: that said, I love politics with my sports. But there's
Speaker 2: enough of an of It's small, but there are people
Speaker 2: often in the media that say you have to have
Speaker 2: some of it it's a responsibility. And I guess my
Speaker 2: takeaway is, isn't my responsibility as a broadcaster to my audience?
Speaker 2: And if my audience, clearly the data proves they don't
Speaker 2: like it. They they like to see Bradley Cooper in
Speaker 2: an Eagles game. They I mean numbers, they like Taylor
Speaker 2: Swift there right, despite the Internet. They don't like politics.
Speaker 2: With our sports, the local columnist will try to guilt
Speaker 2: you into it. But I sit there and I think
Speaker 2: watching the numbers for twenty years and they've had one
Speaker 2: down year, and I'm like, the audience is telling me
Speaker 2: this is escapism. Absolutely, I'm not in the same politics.
Speaker 1: It was the same thing with our shows. Look if
Speaker 1: I were a political pundit, and I wouldn't be. I'm
Speaker 1: not super interested in it. I find both sides disappointing.
Speaker 1: I remember the first time ever caring about politics. My
Speaker 1: father's a humble construction guy, self employed. We don't have
Speaker 1: health insurance for the entire family. Bill Clinton sitting there
Speaker 1: in nineteen ninety one, going within one hundred days, we
Speaker 1: have figured it, and I'm like, oh my god, Like
Speaker 1: I'm an idiot kid being like, Wow, We're gonna have
Speaker 1: health insurance with one hundred days. The president just the
Speaker 1: guy that's going to win a little thing. And then
Speaker 1: he was like, oh wait, that never happened like that
Speaker 1: never in my family. You know. My parents both voted
Speaker 1: for him and were really excited about it, because again
Speaker 1: you're just kind of voting for stuff. You were like, Hey,
Speaker 1: that's going to impact That's gonna impact me, you know.
Speaker 1: And so I I have a lot of thoughts because
Speaker 1: I can't escape seeing all of this. But you know,
Speaker 1: we were both at ESPN and again I was there
Speaker 1: one more contract after you. That's when it really changed
Speaker 1: where the out was, Hey, even though you're coming to
Speaker 1: me for sports, this is more important. And I could
Speaker 1: never tell you that you're wrong. I can't say, no,
Speaker 1: you're wrong, this isn't more important. But you know what,
Speaker 1: like there's a lot of stuff that falls into this
Speaker 1: category that is far more important than whether or not
Speaker 1: Ben Roethlisberger has it this year. Yeah win the North Okay, Like, yeah,
Speaker 1: you win. I submit, but that's not what I was
Speaker 1: fucking hired to do. Okay. And I I'd always look
Speaker 1: at like every now and then you might do like
Speaker 1: a societal observation take and then pivot into something else
Speaker 1: and it'd be like a really killer monologue, and those
Speaker 1: would usually do better for you than just a breakdown
Speaker 1: of something sports because it stood out because it was rare,
Speaker 1: get a little run, and it would end up on
Speaker 1: the message boards, you know, and if it was Twitter,
Speaker 1: then Twitter would be paying attention to it. And so
Speaker 1: I think what happened was that, depending on how you
Speaker 1: were aligned, you started seeing wins in content by pushing
Speaker 1: that more and more. And look, we had some major
Speaker 1: major events over the last few years. I've also noticed
Speaker 1: that anybody that talks for a living kind of feels
Speaker 1: like they're supposed to talk about everything. But I always
Speaker 1: felt like, yeah, I have some thoughts, and one of
Speaker 1: the few times I've ever shared them, you know, in
Speaker 1: some sectors, I was getting destroyed and I'd read something
Speaker 1: about me like that's not even really what I'm about,
Speaker 1: Like this is shocking to me, but whatever. I mean,
Speaker 1: it's the way it works. And I think if I
Speaker 1: came out and did an opening segment on a sports podcast,
Speaker 1: why I think both parties suck, then I'm not even
Speaker 1: offending one half. I'm offending both of them. Like I'm
Speaker 1: telling both like there's not even a group that wants
Speaker 1: to be like, yeah, go get him, you're on our
Speaker 1: side rooting for me. So I just honestly, I felt
Speaker 1: like it was easier than watching a million fucking games.
Speaker 1: I thought it became very self serving. I thought the
Speaker 1: intention was good, but I would see it with people
Speaker 1: that we worked with where I felt, all of a sudden,
Speaker 1: I'm like, are you doing this because it's the right thing.
Speaker 1: Are you doing this because it's just fucking way easier
Speaker 1: doing this than grinding and watching twenty hours of football
Speaker 1: on a weekend.
Speaker 2: No, I listen. I've told my staff this before. The
Speaker 2: laziest take is, hey, let's talk media because you don't
Speaker 2: have to do any homework and it gets tons of clicks.
Speaker 2: So I always say on my radio TV stuff, it's like, yeah,
Speaker 2: I'm not getting into that. That's an easy eight minute filler.
Speaker 2: I don't need to do prep to have an opinion
Speaker 2: on media. I gotta watch guys sit there on a
Speaker 2: Sunday for eight goddamn hours, sometimes twelve writing notes for
Speaker 2: all these games Saturday. Now, the Big Tens explosion in
Speaker 2: the SEC all we have to watch two conferences, but
Speaker 2: the Big Tens schedule next year is going to be
Speaker 2: like you know, Oregon, Penn State, early, Ohio State, Wisconsin,
Speaker 2: next USC. It's gonna be four games in a row.
Speaker 2: I'll be watching all day Saturday. So no, I think,
Speaker 2: I guess. I guess. My point was politically is there
Speaker 2: was a moment in time where you felt almost guilted
Speaker 2: into having strong opinions on it. And I always look
Speaker 2: at my entire life as editing. Even though I'm doing
Speaker 2: a three hour show, it's ninety minutes after ads and
Speaker 2: then I have one to two guests for ten to
Speaker 2: twelve minutes. And my takeaway is I leave a lot out.
Speaker 2: I can certainly leave politics out. I leave hockey out,
Speaker 2: and NASCAR in the baseball regular season, I leave them
Speaker 2: all out. I can leave politics out. And I never
Speaker 2: really felt guilty when ESPN went into that space. I
Speaker 2: was like, hey man, you go for it. Nobody's coming
Speaker 2: to CNBC for football picks, Like that's not my take.
Speaker 2: I'm editing out of those important issues because I don't
Speaker 2: think anybody thinks I'm well versed enough to have a
Speaker 2: strong opinion on them.
Speaker 1: Hey look, I get invited to go on some investing show,
Speaker 1: right because I'll mention something here or there or talk
Speaker 1: about and I was like, no, I'm not I'm not
Speaker 1: that guy. I'm not comfortable enough to do it. I'm
Speaker 1: not educated enough. I don't want to debate somebody on
Speaker 1: investment strategy. And I just I know that at least
Speaker 1: in the twenty years that I've done this, I feel
Speaker 1: like you kind of owe it to the like, you know,
Speaker 1: you want to you want to do something that's like
Speaker 1: we answer emails about advice at the end of it,
Speaker 1: you know, but it's more of a mechanism to have
Speaker 1: fun and close the podcast fast. I just I didn't
Speaker 1: really understand it. And I even did a segment on
Speaker 1: it back back when I was at ESPN. I was
Speaker 1: kind of like, what's the job becoming? Because this is
Speaker 1: this what the job is supposed to be. And I
Speaker 1: to your point, like I don't know that I ever
Speaker 1: met anybody, was like, you know, I really like your
Speaker 1: basketball stuff, but I hope you share. I hope you
Speaker 1: do little stuff on the primaries. That's funny.
Speaker 2: I remember when I covered unlv In tarc it was
Speaker 2: we were embroiled in this NC double a shit and
Speaker 2: at one point I went to a news director, and
Speaker 2: I said, not interested, no law degree. I want to
Speaker 2: cover the games. If you want to fire me, I'm
Speaker 2: going to do big opinions on sports and you and
Speaker 2: LV basketball. You guys cover the NC double a shit
Speaker 2: with Tark because I'm over it, and he's like all right,
Speaker 2: And then they put a reporter. Dan Burns was the guy.
Speaker 2: They put him on the big stories. But I'm like,
Speaker 2: I'm not doing this. I'm over it. I want to
Speaker 2: cover the games. And if I'm a simplistic person, fine,
Speaker 2: but I have takes. None of them are about bureaucracy.
Speaker 2: Like but people, when when I heard this on the internet,
Speaker 2: how come you don't have an opinion on Lebron and
Speaker 2: China because it's not interesting. I don't care about Lebron
Speaker 2: and China and his opinion. I'm sorry. If it's you
Speaker 2: could label it as you want, like you know me
Speaker 2: well enough. My rule in the entire business is just
Speaker 2: be interesting. Don't don't be paralyzed by wrong. Be interesting.
Speaker 1: You hate Chin, I mean what you shared with me privately.
Speaker 2: That's funny. Okay, here's a here's a bit. You can
Speaker 2: use this on one of your I'm sure you will
Speaker 2: on one of your treatments, you know, the networks. So
Speaker 2: I was thinking about this the other day. It's too
Speaker 2: bad Larry David quit. You know, he stopped his show.
Speaker 2: So you do this from time to time. You'll talk
Speaker 2: about a message or or a life a life hack.
Speaker 1: Right.
Speaker 2: So I'm at a grocery store. I have about nine
Speaker 2: items and it's not even a nine item ten item line.
Speaker 2: I'm the middle of the day. I'm not going heavy
Speaker 2: grocery shopping. I got nine items.
Speaker 1: You like to prep the items each day.
Speaker 2: I buy the same shit every third days. Right, But
Speaker 2: lady behind me in stale, lady behind me has like
Speaker 2: a drink and a kind bar, and she looks at
Speaker 2: me like, hey, I got two, you got nine. Come on,
Speaker 2: don't be selfish. I want to be And I looked
Speaker 2: at her and I was like, I stared her down.
Speaker 2: I'm like bummer, and I just and I thought as
Speaker 2: I walked out, what's the math on that? What's the
Speaker 2: math on somebody has clearly a drink and a snack.
Speaker 2: What's the number where you can be like, Nope, I'm
Speaker 2: not letting you cut. If I've thirty two, I'd let
Speaker 2: her go twenty four absolutely, sixteen year turn. I was
Speaker 2: at nine. I counted mine. I'm like eight nine. I
Speaker 2: looked at her. I was like, talk to the hand.
Speaker 2: Take on that.
Speaker 1: I'm on your side. I had it happen with a woman.
Speaker 1: I was out at the marina. I had two items
Speaker 1: in my hand, and then I said, I'm gonna grab
Speaker 1: two waters to the side one of the side coolers,
Speaker 1: and as soon as I reached to the side, she
Speaker 1: just darted the car right behind me and cut me
Speaker 1: because there was no one there. The cashier was waiting,
Speaker 1: so it was like open open, and I was gonna
Speaker 1: have four items to be done. But once I leaned
Speaker 1: to the right, she just you know, rubbing his race
Speaker 1: and it went right past me. And I was like,
Speaker 1: all right, I'm not gonna get mad about this. And
Speaker 1: then I saw her put the divider down and she
Speaker 1: was going to do two separate transactions for her and
Speaker 1: her mother. So the woman was like fifty and the
Speaker 1: mom was don't one hundred and twelve. And so I
Speaker 1: was like, oh, we're doing two transactions. We're doing two,
Speaker 1: and she goes, you were out of the way, you
Speaker 1: were grabbing water, and so she immediately knew, and I
Speaker 1: was like, yeah, that's kind of the point, like you're
Speaker 1: pointing out, you're pointing out to me why I'm right,
Speaker 1: and you already had like you already had your defense
Speaker 1: ready in case I was ready to say anything. So like,
Speaker 1: to me, you're even more guilty now, And I went,
Speaker 1: you know what I was doing? I go, I was
Speaker 1: reaching for water. The aisle was wide open, I have
Speaker 1: these four things. You have a cart, and now it's
Speaker 1: two transactions. I go, you know, you don't need to
Speaker 1: do that. And then she just got really aggressive, and
Speaker 1: I just said, you know what, you're right, I'm wrong.
Speaker 2: When'd she say nothing?
Speaker 1: Because I was like, I obviously wasn't saying that. So
Speaker 1: as I think about your thing, which was far less hostile,
Speaker 1: I imagine I think it's a visual metric. If you're at
Speaker 1: a half fold full KRT or maybe an overflowing, overflowing
Speaker 1: hand basket, you know, celery out one side, rolls barely
Speaker 1: hanging on getting strangled by the handles, then she might
Speaker 1: have an issue with you. But if we're talking surface
Speaker 1: area that's not covered on the bottom of the basket
Speaker 1: for nine items, not even at double figures, you know,
Speaker 1: what was what was she going to do? Shave eighty
Speaker 1: seconds off her day.
Speaker 2: Good point. All right, Rosillo, You know I hate bothering you.
Speaker 2: I'm gonna go out, I mean, have a beer tonight
Speaker 2: at the club, but.
Speaker 1: We'll say hi to everybody for me.
Speaker 2: Are you breaking down the NBA central tonight?
Speaker 1: What are you doing? Come on thunder Magic Magic on
Speaker 1: TNT for the first time in twelve years. I think
Speaker 1: this is his big stuff over here.
Speaker 2: I mean, honestly, Barkley doesn't even know if you told him, okay,
Speaker 2: see nickname. He doesn't have any idea.
Speaker 1: No, I imagine how many guess did you have to
Speaker 1: get to get the head coach's name right? No? But
Speaker 1: I'm I look, I was away, so I felt like
Speaker 1: there was a stretch of a few days or I
Speaker 1: wasn't as locked in. So trying to be locked in again,
Speaker 1: I get to come up with an opening monologue for
Speaker 1: tomorrow morning too. On top of everything else, I don't
Speaker 1: know what it's going to be. Right now, clock is ticking.
Speaker 2: How long is your opening monologue?
Speaker 1: About?
Speaker 2: Fifteen?
Speaker 1: Yeah? Fifteen. If I'm really feeling myself, I go a
Speaker 1: little bit longer. But I don't like to keep him
Speaker 1: that long, you know, I don't care who you are.
Speaker 1: I think post twenty minutes monologue, one guy straight, no
Speaker 1: audio breakups. That's you know, it's not ideal, but sometimes
Speaker 1: I still do it.
Speaker 2: Yeah, feel self indulgent, don't don't go there.
Speaker 1: Does feel little, especially when you start getting to like,
Speaker 1: and here's the thing about the G League at night,
Speaker 1: you got to get this in there.
Speaker 2: Right, you've gone, You've crossed the rubicon. I'm not I'm
Speaker 2: not comfortable with it.
Speaker 1: I like talking about that stuff.
Speaker 2: But yeah, and a topics or a topics all right, buddy,
Speaker 2: good seeing you.
Speaker 1: Thanks Ben
Speaker 2: The volume