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Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff You Missed in History Class, A production

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Speaker 1: of I Heart Radio. Hello and Happy Friday. I'm Tracy P.

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Speaker 1: Wilson and I'm Holly Fry. We talked about Maggie Lena

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Speaker 1: Walker on the show this week, and Wow, I was

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Speaker 1: not fully aware of how much she accomplished in her lifetime.

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Speaker 1: I knew about chartering the bank, I knew about becoming

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Speaker 1: president of the bank. I knew that in the process

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Speaker 1: of all of her work, she became one of the

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Speaker 1: wealthiest black women in the United States living at the

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Speaker 1: time that she lived. Um, I didn't know about the emporium,

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Speaker 1: or the newspaper or the many many, many, many, many

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Speaker 1: many organizations that she played a leadership role in. Uh,

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Speaker 1: that just went way beyond my basic understanding of her

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Speaker 1: from having her on my episode shortlist for so long.

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Speaker 1: She is is inspiring as all get out, and also, um,

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Speaker 1: makes you want to take a nap. I'm like, Oh,

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Speaker 1: that's a lot of work. That's an overwhelming amount of

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Speaker 1: work to consider. Yeah. One thing that came up in

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Speaker 1: the research that I just could not find a good

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Speaker 1: place to fit into the episode was some speculation about

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Speaker 1: how she may have been named for Mary Magdalen. The

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Speaker 1: Maggie part of her name may have been named after

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Speaker 1: a grandmother whose name is Margaret. The Lena part is

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Speaker 1: a little not as clearly documented, and so the biographer

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Speaker 1: whose ac count I was reading was like could have

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Speaker 1: been named after Mary Magdalen, and also noted that there

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Speaker 1: was one of the organizations that she was involved in

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Speaker 1: or one of the departments. I don't remember the details

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Speaker 1: that did not get mentioned in the show. Um was

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Speaker 1: also named for Mary Magdalen, which I thought was an

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Speaker 1: interesting speculation. Huh. I have questions for you about the

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Speaker 1: listener mail. Okay, one, you mentioned that your family has

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Speaker 1: like a family fudge recipe that does not involve a

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Speaker 1: marble slab. I'm going to ask you the question, mhm,

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Speaker 1: does it involve the inclusion of nuts in the fudge? Yes? Why? Okay,

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Speaker 1: I don't know. Um. Starting before I was born, my mom,

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Speaker 1: every year, uh, primarily my mom my dad had some

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Speaker 1: involvement too, would make these things she called goody boxes.

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Speaker 1: She would make them at Christmas every year. Um that

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Speaker 1: she would make a whole bunch of chocolate chip cookies,

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Speaker 1: a whole bunch of fudge. My dad usually would be

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Speaker 1: the one who made peanut brittle, and then as my mom.

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Speaker 1: My mom is disabled, and as her disability made her

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Speaker 1: less able to do some of this, my dad has

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Speaker 1: picked up a lot of the like goody box preparation.

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Speaker 1: And two things in the Goodey boxes are chocolate chip

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Speaker 1: cookies and fudge, both of which contain nuts, uh, both

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Speaker 1: of which my spouse has some very strong opinions about

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Speaker 1: how those should not be in there. He does. He

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Speaker 1: and I have never discussed this, but now I feel

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Speaker 1: bonded to him in any way. Yeah, so I have

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Speaker 1: never tried to make the fudge recipe myself. I have though,

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Speaker 1: made my mom's chocolate chip cookie recipe a whole bunch,

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Speaker 1: and I usually, instead of putting nuts in there, put

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Speaker 1: some extra chocolate chips so that they like cookie too

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Speaker 1: solid peace ratio will still be pleasing and it won't

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Speaker 1: be too much cookie and not enough other bits. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: I'm not a fan of nuts in baked goods, just

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Speaker 1: I like my texture a little more consistent than that.

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Speaker 1: I will say, have you ever done a thing where

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Speaker 1: the additional chocolate chips you put in your the chip

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Speaker 1: cookies you used a different chip, like a butter Scotch

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Speaker 1: do no highly recommend my other questions. Um, that tombstone

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Speaker 1: got me to thinking what recipe you might want on

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Speaker 1: your gravestone if you did such a thing. Oh, that's

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Speaker 1: a good question. So another another recipe that was a

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Speaker 1: big part of my uh family gathering life as a

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Speaker 1: child was a potato casserole recipe made from as I

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Speaker 1: remember it when I was a child. They were made

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Speaker 1: with hash browns, but not the shredded hash browns that

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Speaker 1: came in a bag. They were made with the patties

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Speaker 1: and we would have to put the patties through the

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Speaker 1: vegetable grad And I have modified that somewhat from the

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Speaker 1: way that my mom made it when I was a kid,

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Speaker 1: to instead use the shredded potatoes. Um. I could also

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Speaker 1: be conflating that with something else. I just remember the

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Speaker 1: experience when I was a child of putting cold frozen

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Speaker 1: hash browns. Uh to like break up the break them

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Speaker 1: up to Knoby salad pieces. Huh. I'm fascinated. It's very good.

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Speaker 1: It's full of potato and cheese. I mean that's salt done.

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Speaker 1: Yeah yeah. Cream a chicken soup unless we're having some

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Speaker 1: vegetarians over and then we have cream mushroom soup instead. Yum.

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Speaker 1: I it made me think of what I would want,

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Speaker 1: and I think it would probably be a cocktail recipe,

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Speaker 1: but I don't know which one yet. Yeah, I mean

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Speaker 1: it might be the classic vodka Collins, which is one

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Speaker 1: of my things that I think a lot of. And

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Speaker 1: it's a very old twice It's a very seventies drink,

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Speaker 1: but I love it. Yeah, But or maybe something more original,

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Speaker 1: who knows. Yeah, just a good food for thought. Things

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Speaker 1: I would like to be remembered me. I feel like

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Speaker 1: today is behind the scenes has said the least about

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Speaker 1: the subject of the episode and the most about the

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Speaker 1: subject of the listener mail. Um. Yeah, I do love

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Speaker 1: Maggieleena Walker though. Oh she's great. Glad I was able

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Speaker 1: to take the opportunity to learn more than my limited

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Speaker 1: knowledge was about previously. Also glad that she's gotten I mean,

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Speaker 1: recognition beyond what we talked about in the in the

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Speaker 1: in the show, and in addition to the statue, they

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Speaker 1: are also schools named for her, and streets named for her,

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Speaker 1: and all kinds of stuff named for her. Um. An

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Speaker 1: increasing body of discussion about specifically economic work among black

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Speaker 1: communities after the Civil War during reconstruction, which has not

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Speaker 1: been discussed as much compared to like how much discussion

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Speaker 1: there has spent of more education and social service conversation.

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Speaker 1: So interesting thread of research there. We talked about John

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Speaker 1: hen this week. Yeah, I think this episode had more

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Speaker 1: instances of the letter P than any other episode we

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Speaker 1: have ever ever ever done. It's definitely a plosive party

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Speaker 1: going on a we we kind of hinted at it

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Speaker 1: in the episode, but it does certainly all all of

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Speaker 1: the information we have about Pepper and how he handled

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Speaker 1: other people and things in his life make me wonder.

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Speaker 1: As much as I certainly love Pepper's ghost in its

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Speaker 1: place in in entertainment history, was he just an enormous

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Speaker 1: pain in the neck to kind of seems like it?

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Speaker 1: Um like he seems in some ways very fun and

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Speaker 1: people spoke so lovingly of him and seeing him give

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Speaker 1: lectures when they were kids. But then I think maybe

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Speaker 1: on an interpersonal level, he had some challenges dealing with

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Speaker 1: other people. As we said, we've both known that person. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: exuberant and flamboyant person who doesn't like to be in

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Speaker 1: any way heard it in a direction they don't want

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Speaker 1: to go yep, or even just questioned his m His

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Speaker 1: writing in that book that he wrote near the end

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Speaker 1: of his life is very defensive. It's all very I

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Speaker 1: did everything right. There were even like him being called

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Speaker 1: professor Pepper he didn't actually have like credentials a teacher,

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Speaker 1: which I don't think he ever claimed he did. That

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Speaker 1: was sort of a nickname, but enough people had clearly

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Speaker 1: mentioned it as something possibly shady. Then she basically like

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Speaker 1: goes on a whole diatribe in that book about how

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Speaker 1: he did not give himself that name, other people gave

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Speaker 1: him that name. He never claimed to be something he

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Speaker 1: was not, And part of me is like, are you

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Speaker 1: just a pain in the neck. But I can also

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Speaker 1: imagine that if you are a person in that position

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Speaker 1: where someone is questioning you constantly for things that like

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Speaker 1: we're not you're doing that, you might towards the end

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Speaker 1: of your life be like I've had it. I gotta say,

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Speaker 1: I also know this is not exactly the same thing,

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Speaker 1: but I kind of like the idea that, like the

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Speaker 1: guy given the lectures at the Science Museum had just

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Speaker 1: becomes such a beloved celebrity. Oh yeah, for sure. Um,

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Speaker 1: I mean it is one of those things that I

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Speaker 1: think we have all probably I hope we have all

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Speaker 1: known a person in our life that made learning really

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Speaker 1: fun and took concepts that sometimes had been sort of

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Speaker 1: characterized as though they were for higher minds and been

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Speaker 1: like no, no, no, no, no, let me break it

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Speaker 1: down and like it sort of makes you fall in

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Speaker 1: love with learning. And I think he was that at

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Speaker 1: a time when there was not a lot of that,

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Speaker 1: right like in the mid eighteen sixties in terms of

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Speaker 1: general lectures, probably not a lot of people trying to

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Speaker 1: reach out to folks that did not have a whole

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Speaker 1: lot of formal education and go, you know, you can

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Speaker 1: learn this stuff, right, yeah, which is pretty great. That was,

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Speaker 1: honestly one of the things that that frustrated me as

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Speaker 1: a child about the transition from elementary school to middle school,

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Speaker 1: because it felt like a lot of things in elementary

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Speaker 1: school that we're supposed to be fun, including the library,

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Speaker 1: we're not fun anymore. In middle school. They were work now,

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Speaker 1: Like our elementary school library was this bright, welcoming open

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Speaker 1: space with cozy places to read, and possibly influenced by

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Speaker 1: the fact that our the middle school was older than

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Speaker 1: the elementary school library was in terms of actual building,

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Speaker 1: the middle school library was dingy with shelves and rows

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Speaker 1: and hard tables to sit at, and the the shift

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Speaker 1: in approach from teaching a lot of things went from

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Speaker 1: here's a fun thing we're going to do, to sit

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Speaker 1: down and shut your mouth and learn. Right, it was

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Speaker 1: less about discovery and that's when it shifts to become

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Speaker 1: more about memorization. Yeah, yeah, that's part of what kills

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Speaker 1: it off. I know that's not the case with the

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Speaker 1: way a lot of people are teaching now, but that

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Speaker 1: was my experience growing up, right, And I mean when

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Speaker 1: you think about right like that that right up in

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Speaker 1: the Australian paper about like how many people learned practical

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Speaker 1: stuff from him that we can't ever quantify his influence

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Speaker 1: really since he was inviting people, you know, and so

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Speaker 1: is the Royal Polytechnic people that were you know, laborers

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Speaker 1: essentially in some cases to come and listen to a

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Speaker 1: lecture and learn about this thing. Like how many of

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Speaker 1: them gained a broader understanding of the world and we're

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Speaker 1: able to tackle things. Um. That also is a theme

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Speaker 1: that runs through his book For Boys and Science, which

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Speaker 1: much of it is for Boys and Science, which is problematic,

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Speaker 1: but also uh the blind spot of the times UM

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Speaker 1: is that like no, No, if you learn all these

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Speaker 1: things and you learn about how all of them work,

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Speaker 1: like you will be able to handle anything. It's very

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Speaker 1: much about like empowering people through learning, which I love. UM.

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Speaker 1: The other thing I wanted to mention, which is silly,

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Speaker 1: and I swear I don't mean to keep mentioning cocktails

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Speaker 1: all the time, but I wanted to mention to anybody

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Speaker 1: who might be going to Disney World. There's actually a

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Speaker 1: cocktail you can get in Disney World called Pepper's Ghost Fun.

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Speaker 1: They serve it at the Abrica Dab Bar, which is

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Speaker 1: on the boardwalk, and it's a magic themed bar, and

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Speaker 1: there's lots of references to illusionists in it. UH. And

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Speaker 1: it's got like pineapple vodka and hobaniro lime and it's

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Speaker 1: got a little uh I think it has a little

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Speaker 1: black pepper on top. It's quite a tasty beverage. My

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Speaker 1: husband sure likes it, so he is UM also memorialized

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Speaker 1: in the form of a libation. In addition to all

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Speaker 1: of the ways that his work is still being used today,

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Speaker 1: which goes back to my my other Friday UH commentary

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Speaker 1: on wanting to be remembered for cocktails. So now you go.

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Speaker 1: Pepper and I clearly have not a thing necessarily in common,

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Speaker 1: but a link in this way my aspirations. Uh. If

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Speaker 1: this is your weekend coming up, we hope that it

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Speaker 1: is filled with joy and delight and is smooth the

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Speaker 1: silkin that you get so much rest and fun packed

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Speaker 1: in without exhausting yourself. If you have obligations, like you

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Speaker 1: maybe have to work, or do you just have a

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Speaker 1: bunch of stuff you have to do, I hope it

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Speaker 1: goes as well as it possibly can, it is not stressful,

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Speaker 1: and that people are always nice to you. We will

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Speaker 1: see you right back here tomorrow with a classic, and

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Speaker 1: then we'll be back again on Monday with new shows.

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Speaker 1: Stuff you missed in History Class is a production of

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Speaker 1: I Heart Radio. For more podcasts from I heart Radio,

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Speaker 1: visit the i heart Radio app, Apple Pie Podcasts, or

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Speaker 1: wherever you listen to your favorite shows. H