Speaker 1: Joel. These are the rare episodes when I start talking
Speaker 1: first people like he's the best. I don't think I
Speaker 1: don't think they do. Actually, But just this morning, man,
Speaker 1: you and I were talking. We're not surprisingly talking about bikes. Uh,
Speaker 1: We're talking about mountain biking. And you know, you and
Speaker 1: I both have previously been really into mountain biking, and
Speaker 1: we started thinking through, like why don't we do that
Speaker 1: more often? Right? But then we kind of started thinking
Speaker 1: through all of these additional expenses that come with a
Speaker 1: mountain bike. You gotta get a car carrier, because you
Speaker 1: can't just bike to a trailhead necessarily, at least we
Speaker 1: can't where we live in the city. You can't exactly. Um,
Speaker 1: a friend of ours, he's like three out of four
Speaker 1: times that he's come back from mountain biking, he's come
Speaker 1: back injured, like he's been even bleeding. The increased medical cost,
Speaker 1: there's medical constisation with it, and just the time, right,
Speaker 1: So I mean just driving to uh somewhere where you
Speaker 1: can go mountain biking, driving back home, posing down your gear,
Speaker 1: and then of course not to mention just all the
Speaker 1: small additional paraphernalia, all the additional gear that comes along
Speaker 1: with getting back into mountain biking. You and I talked
Speaker 1: about it for a little bit. We decided that, you
Speaker 1: know what, like it may not be worth it right
Speaker 1: now to get back into mountain biking. And so we
Speaker 1: feel that it's important for folks to consider all of
Speaker 1: the different costs associated with a purchase. And that's what
Speaker 1: made us think of this particular episode. Yeah, pretty much
Speaker 1: everything that we buy has secondary costs, and most of
Speaker 1: the time we don't consider those before we make the purchase.
Speaker 1: We're like, oh, it's a five mountain bike boom, I'm
Speaker 1: in and let's do it. Let's go right and yeah,
Speaker 1: and then you're like, but I need this, this, this
Speaker 1: and this, and it takes extra time, it's got all
Speaker 1: these other costs associated with it that I didn't factor
Speaker 1: in and I wasn't expecting. And so yeah, I think
Speaker 1: this episode was really a call to add that next
Speaker 1: level thinking into a purchase before you make the purchase,
Speaker 1: so that you don't over spend, over extend yourself when
Speaker 1: it comes to your budget. And and I think sometimes
Speaker 1: we have those secondary costs that we haven't strongly considered.
Speaker 1: Our are what do end up wrecking our budget. And additionally,
Speaker 1: I feel like they can kind of sometimes suck the
Speaker 1: fun out of, you know, the activity to begin with.
Speaker 1: Like when it comes to hobbies, do you think, oh, yeah,
Speaker 1: this is gonna be just this little thing I do.
Speaker 1: But then before you know it, when it takes that
Speaker 1: much money and that much time, you almost feel guilty.
Speaker 1: I feel guilty sometimes when things end up costing more
Speaker 1: money than I expect. And and so yeah, there's just
Speaker 1: lots of different ways to think about these additional expenses
Speaker 1: that a company purchases, and they creep in so much
Speaker 1: of the time, and and it's and it can't be frustrating,
Speaker 1: I agree if it's something that you want to be
Speaker 1: an inexpensive hobby and then you find yourself norre not
Speaker 1: on the gear that accompanies it, and you spend too much,
Speaker 1: and it makes the hobby sometimes a little bit less fun,
Speaker 1: a little bit less desirable. So, without further ado, let's
Speaker 1: get to our Bestie episode. This is a replay of
Speaker 1: an episode we created a couple of years ago specifically
Speaker 1: about secondary cost And here we go, Welcome to how
Speaker 1: to Money. I'm Joel and I'm Matt, and today we're
Speaker 1: discussing why everything costs more than you think, Joel, you
Speaker 1: and I are best friends. A lot of our new
Speaker 1: listeners may have heard that, but they don't know how
Speaker 1: we got to be friends. How deep this friendship runs.
Speaker 1: Do you do you remember when we first met? Honestly, dude,
Speaker 1: I don't. It was it made that much of an
Speaker 1: impression on you. If you remember our origin story, please
Speaker 1: honestly share. Yeah, honestly, I don't remember when we actually met.
Speaker 1: The first memory, though, that I do have is some
Speaker 1: friends of ours, mutual friends, had invited Kate and I
Speaker 1: over to play some board games and you and Emily
Speaker 1: were also there, and I think we may have been
Speaker 1: playing some original uh Settlers of Kitan. Oh yeah, that's
Speaker 1: like that sound about right. It's like the gateway drug
Speaker 1: for nerdy board games. Yeah, so I think this is
Speaker 1: about eight years ago, and yeah, that's when we that's
Speaker 1: when we first started hanging out. I don't have anything
Speaker 1: specific about that night. I'm sure I whipped your tail
Speaker 1: some Settlers, but unlikely. That is funny that it started
Speaker 1: out with us playing board games, because we're both super
Speaker 1: into nerdy board games. We did a whole episode on
Speaker 1: it back in the day, and we made recommendations kind
Speaker 1: of for some of our favorites. But yeah, dude, I
Speaker 1: think it's not a knock on you because obviously we're
Speaker 1: best friends. But I barely remember like the birth of
Speaker 1: my first daughter. Now, I just feel like so many
Speaker 1: five years have passed and that part of my memory
Speaker 1: is just almost gone. I feel like the most cemented
Speaker 1: memories I have of our friendship going back were two
Speaker 1: times that we traveled together as couples, and the first
Speaker 1: one was we left on Halloween like six years ago
Speaker 1: and we went to Ireland together as a family, and
Speaker 1: I think we mentioned that on the podcast at one
Speaker 1: at one point. And then a trip that we had
Speaker 1: to the Keys, which we kind of piggybacked on you
Speaker 1: having a photo shoot a wedding that you had to
Speaker 1: shoot down there, and we kind of stayed together. And
Speaker 1: that trip to the Keys, when we had our our
Speaker 1: oldest daughters were only just a few months old. I
Speaker 1: just distinctly remember that trip to Those are kind of
Speaker 1: the memories that really are cemented from our early friendship days.
Speaker 1: So basically you'll remember things where there's pictures associated with
Speaker 1: it that you can go back and see pretty much. Yeah,
Speaker 1: So it's interesting you mentioned that that sort of Keys
Speaker 1: Florida Keys work photography trip because I remember, actually before
Speaker 1: even Ireland, was one time when Kate and I did
Speaker 1: some photography work for a restaurant and one of the
Speaker 1: things that we negotiated with them was that we got
Speaker 1: a Sweet Fats get certificate. That's right, Yeah, they paid
Speaker 1: us in food and this place is really good. This
Speaker 1: is a really great restaurant here in Atlanta. And that
Speaker 1: was super early on in our friendship, very very early on. Yeah,
Speaker 1: you invited us to this fancy dinner. I was like, oh,
Speaker 1: I don't know him like that, but well, the reason
Speaker 1: being because so yeah, we got this huge gift certificate
Speaker 1: and Kate and I looked at each other and we thought,
Speaker 1: we can't. This is a lot of money, and it'd
Speaker 1: be more fun if we went with some friends. So
Speaker 1: we thought of you guys. And what I really remember, though,
Speaker 1: is that we hadn't gone to a lot of nice
Speaker 1: restaurants at that point in our lives. We totally novices
Speaker 1: nice restaurants. And I'm pretty sure you had on a
Speaker 1: T shirt, but we walked in and probably like a
Speaker 1: band T shirt or something. We were I think we
Speaker 1: were all a little under underdressed backwards hat, yes, but
Speaker 1: we enjoyed a really nice dinner. I do remember that.
Speaker 1: I remember getting some awesome steak, and maybe that was
Speaker 1: really what cemented it for us, right, yeah, bonding over meat?
Speaker 1: Yeah why not? I sorry all you vegetarians out there,
Speaker 1: but yeah, so traveling together as friends and and a
Speaker 1: great meal sometimes and and then nerdy board games. Man,
Speaker 1: I feel like that kind of encompasses some of the
Speaker 1: things that we enjoy the most and uh and still
Speaker 1: enjoy kind of doing together when whenever we can, let's
Speaker 1: do it some more. So that's uh for all you
Speaker 1: new listeners, that's kind of how Matt and I became
Speaker 1: best friends. And then, like you'll find out as you
Speaker 1: continue listening to the show, we talk about the things
Speaker 1: on this show that we care about that we already
Speaker 1: enjoy discussing and and we started this podcast because we
Speaker 1: love craft beer and we love talking about money things
Speaker 1: that matter to us. And so yeah, this podcast is
Speaker 1: really just kind of an excuse for Matt and I
Speaker 1: to do what we would be doing anyway, like drinking
Speaker 1: beer and talking about it too, right, Yeah, And today
Speaker 1: we are drinking a beer called Pretty Willie's Imperial stout
Speaker 1: by Against the Grain Brewery. This is a beer that
Speaker 1: my real estate agent gave to me over a year
Speaker 1: ago when I closed on a house. And this, in
Speaker 1: particular is a beer that you're supposed to let rest
Speaker 1: and evolve, and so we're gonna kind of see how
Speaker 1: it's drinking. We'll do. Thanks so much for sharing this
Speaker 1: one with me. Cheers, Bunny, cheers. All right, Matt, give
Speaker 1: me one word that describes how you feel about this
Speaker 1: beer after just one sip, only one word. I feel
Speaker 1: like this is gonna be harder for you than me,
Speaker 1: because I'm ver both. Yeah, Joel tends to be the
Speaker 1: one that talks a little bit more on the show,
Speaker 1: which is totally fine. If I had my own podcast
Speaker 1: by myself, it might only be five minutes. But if
Speaker 1: it was just you talking, who knows how long you'd go.
Speaker 1: That's true. Okay, But back to you, so one word. Okay,
Speaker 1: this is gonna be weird, but I'm gonna say jacket.
Speaker 1: All right, that's weird. But I think we've already mentioned jacket.
Speaker 1: I think we mentioned on the show before that you
Speaker 1: have some odd taste buds and some odd sensory abilities.
Speaker 1: You're like the beer Somalia or this podcast, you bring
Speaker 1: that to the table. I have a much less developed palette.
Speaker 1: So my word, my one word for this beer for
Speaker 1: right now is going to be roasty. Nice. See roasty.
Speaker 1: That's I think everyone's gonna understand that. Jacket. I think
Speaker 1: what happens is I overthink stuff and now I'm just
Speaker 1: gonna have to actually explain myself. But we'll say that
Speaker 1: for the end of the show, so we will get
Speaker 1: to why Matt's on one word for this beer was jacket.
Speaker 1: Uh La get later on, but first let's get to
Speaker 1: the topic of hand. Everything costs more than you think,
Speaker 1: and what Matt and I wanted to talk about on
Speaker 1: the show today is considering secondary costs. Anytime you make
Speaker 1: a purchase, the price tag that you're paying upfront on
Speaker 1: whatever it is, is not the only cost involved in
Speaker 1: making a purchase, and we wanted to talk about the
Speaker 1: other costs involved. H we're calling secondary costs, and those
Speaker 1: are additional costs that you will or might end up
Speaker 1: paying on a purchase that fall outside of that original
Speaker 1: purchase amount. And we think it's really really important to
Speaker 1: consider those things because it can be easy when you're
Speaker 1: budgeting or when you're considering making a purchase or adding
Speaker 1: something into your life, to only consider that upfront price
Speaker 1: tag and not think about all those other dominoes at
Speaker 1: fall when it comes to the price you're paying. And so, Matt,
Speaker 1: this podcast is going to be dedicated to those other
Speaker 1: dominoes at fall how that impacts, like your wallet in
Speaker 1: your life. That's right. Yeah, Folks tend to not consider
Speaker 1: the sort of nickel and diming effect that happens after
Speaker 1: you make a purchase. Whether it's a quality purchase or
Speaker 1: a cheap purchase, it doesn't really matter. What we're talking about,
Speaker 1: like those expenses that, like you said, you may or
Speaker 1: may not pay, and let's start with the ones that
Speaker 1: you will pay. Yeah, So we kind of divided this
Speaker 1: up into two different kinds of secondary costs. One is
Speaker 1: a hard secondary cost and the other is a soft
Speaker 1: or lifestyle secondary cost. And so we'll kind of just
Speaker 1: quickly run through the definition and describe what's different about each.
Speaker 1: That's right, man. So hard secondary costs are what we're
Speaker 1: considering to be costs that you have to pay because
Speaker 1: it's either the law, right, so sales tax, like you
Speaker 1: have to pay sales tax, or these might be costs
Speaker 1: that you have to pay because you signed an in
Speaker 1: gree where you promise that you will And these can
Speaker 1: be monthly fees or an h O a say in
Speaker 1: a condo that you live in, or these are costs
Speaker 1: because the item that you've purchased just requires it. You know,
Speaker 1: it's sort of basic maintenance. And I'm not talking about fancy,
Speaker 1: high end maintenance or anything that kind of goes above
Speaker 1: and beyond maintaining that item and allowing it to, you know,
Speaker 1: work and function like you wanted to. In these cases, though,
Speaker 1: you don't have a choice, and these are things that
Speaker 1: you will have to pay. Yeah. So those hard costs, right,
Speaker 1: they are there for a lot of purchases, and we'll
Speaker 1: kind of go into some examples later on in the
Speaker 1: show too, but there there no matter what, and there's
Speaker 1: no getting around them. And they're also kind of easily
Speaker 1: identifiable upfront. Right, you can do the research, you can
Speaker 1: know the figures, and you can kind of know what
Speaker 1: you're getting into when it comes to some of those
Speaker 1: hard costs. But on the other hand, these soft secondary
Speaker 1: costs that we're gonna talk about Matt their costs where
Speaker 1: you're likely going to feel pressured to pay because they
Speaker 1: fit and complement that primary purchase. So these are ones
Speaker 1: that you might not see. You can't necessarily quantify up
Speaker 1: front unless you're really really thoughtful. And an example of
Speaker 1: that would be if you get a new laptop, Oh, well,
Speaker 1: guess what, I need a new backpack to carry that
Speaker 1: laptop around in. And then you are like, well, you
Speaker 1: know what, I'm one of this cool backpack, Well, I
Speaker 1: need a jacket to match or whatever it is, right,
Speaker 1: And it's like that if you give the mouse a
Speaker 1: cookie syndrome, where those are kind of what these soft
Speaker 1: secondary costs are. Those what we're calling them. And so
Speaker 1: if it's a purchase that you make that then forces
Speaker 1: you to feel like you need to upgrade something else
Speaker 1: in your life, and that's one of those soft secondary costs.
Speaker 1: It's a little harder to quantify up front, but we're
Speaker 1: gonna kind of go through some ways to help you
Speaker 1: figure out what those could be and how to decrease
Speaker 1: or maybe eliminate them even in your life. That's right, man,
Speaker 1: it's crazy, right. It's a little bit like lifestyle creep.
Speaker 1: It's kind of funny hearing you talk about an example
Speaker 1: with like the laptop with the bag and then the jacket.
Speaker 1: But it's almost like anytime something touches something else, it's
Speaker 1: like it getting gets infected with looking old, right, because
Speaker 1: you have something like new and shiny, and then in
Speaker 1: relation to the old stuff, you think it really would
Speaker 1: be nice if that was kind of upgraded as well,
Speaker 1: And then before you know it, where do you stop?
Speaker 1: Like when do you stop? Where do you draw the line?
Speaker 1: And I think what's important to keep in mind, though,
Speaker 1: is that you can draw that line. You can decide
Speaker 1: that these are expenses that I'm not going to participate in.
Speaker 1: Then that you have control over. And that's the biggest
Speaker 1: difference between a hard secondary cost versus the soft or
Speaker 1: lifestyle secondary cost is that the soft secondary lifestyle costs
Speaker 1: you just have control over, You have options. But either
Speaker 1: way it's yeah, like you said, it's good to be
Speaker 1: aware of those and to know what steps you can
Speaker 1: take to keep the expenses down. Yeah, And I think
Speaker 1: all of us have experienced both ends of these, right,
Speaker 1: We've experienced buying something and we didn't realize or we
Speaker 1: didn't factor in those hard secondary costs. We made the
Speaker 1: purchase or we made the leap into something and we
Speaker 1: didn't even take into consideration those costs that were inevitable,
Speaker 1: and we bore the brunt of them after we made
Speaker 1: the decision, and maybe for some of us we had
Speaker 1: to put that on a credit card or yeah, like
Speaker 1: you with gasoline, you're like, oh, man, this car takes gas.
Speaker 1: Totally forgot except that I drive an electric car, So
Speaker 1: jokes on you. But yeah, there's all we've all been
Speaker 1: in that situation. And also in regards to the soft
Speaker 1: or lifestyle secondary costs, someone who is considering, let's say
Speaker 1: a bathroom renovation, well, I want to reach out the
Speaker 1: floors and put in a new toilet. Well, then you
Speaker 1: want a new tub, because a tub looks old and
Speaker 1: nasty exactly, and then maybe a new vanity. And you
Speaker 1: know what, if the bathroom is gonna look this good,
Speaker 1: I think I needed to redo the kitchen at the
Speaker 1: same time. And so we've all experienced this in our
Speaker 1: lives to one extent or another, and it's just good
Speaker 1: to be aware of as we go into making purchases.
Speaker 1: It can help us to know when to say no
Speaker 1: to things and when things are out of our budget,
Speaker 1: out of our range. It gives us a better perspective
Speaker 1: and allows us to go into purchases with a little
Speaker 1: more like wisdom and knowledge behind us. And so we've
Speaker 1: been talking a lot lately about spending and consumption. And
Speaker 1: you know, a huge reason that Americans today are having
Speaker 1: issues with saving enough a retirement comes down to their spending.
Speaker 1: It's not that they're not making enough. More of it
Speaker 1: has to do with the fact that folks aren't investing
Speaker 1: and using that money that they've earned wisely, and that
Speaker 1: has led to a lot of people feeling insecure about
Speaker 1: their futures. And so right after the break, we're gonna
Speaker 1: talk about why these secondary costs are so important, and
Speaker 1: then we'll also give some examples, some specific real life
Speaker 1: examples that will help you to see the difference between
Speaker 1: these two types of secondary spendings and just how being
Speaker 1: aware of these things can help you rain in your spending.
Speaker 1: All right, Matt, back from the break, and let's talk
Speaker 1: about why these secondary costs are so important. And it's
Speaker 1: because there's this major problem in America. Four out of
Speaker 1: five Americans are worried that they don't have enough in retirement.
Speaker 1: Right they are spending too much. And I gotta tell you,
Speaker 1: as we've been combing through this topic doing research for
Speaker 1: the show. Matt, I gotta believe that much of this
Speaker 1: is because of poorly thought out purchases, right, And those
Speaker 1: poorly thought out purchases lead to these outrageous secondary costs
Speaker 1: hard ones or lifestyle ones, either way, but they lead
Speaker 1: to those secondary costs for people that weren't factored in,
Speaker 1: and it leads to living a lifestyle where you're living
Speaker 1: month to month, paycheck to paycheck, and you can't get ahead.
Speaker 1: So I feel like that's the problem that we're trying
Speaker 1: to address in this episode. That's a very good sort
Speaker 1: of big picture as to why this is a problem,
Speaker 1: and then diving down to more the specifics. Right, deciding
Speaker 1: whether something is a solid purchase, right, can really only
Speaker 1: be made when you consider these costs before taking that plunge.
Speaker 1: And so if you jump into a purchase before crunching
Speaker 1: the numbers and realistically considering the complete financial picture, you
Speaker 1: could easily sink your budget. You need to do your
Speaker 1: homework like this is just part of the due diligence
Speaker 1: period of making a purchase. You don't want to necessarily
Speaker 1: have what's it called an analysis paralysis where you don't
Speaker 1: make a decision because you're so stuck on the numbers
Speaker 1: and you're so stuck on optimizing it and making it
Speaker 1: perfect that it keeps you from any action at all.
Speaker 1: But you have to do your homework. You have to
Speaker 1: take the steps necessary in order to make sure that
Speaker 1: you're setting yourself up for the future. Yeah, Matt, I
Speaker 1: love what you just said. They're due diligence. I feel
Speaker 1: like that is a great kind of way to think
Speaker 1: about the secondary costs of a major purchase, or even
Speaker 1: a minor purchase that you're just about to make. Due
Speaker 1: diligence when it comes to buying a house, is that
Speaker 1: seven or ten day or whatever you negotiate. Really, it's
Speaker 1: that period that you have after you're under contract on
Speaker 1: a house but you're not obligated to buy it. You
Speaker 1: know you want to, but you don't have to do exactly,
Speaker 1: And so that period of time gives you the ability
Speaker 1: to walk through their decide whether you're into it, get
Speaker 1: an inspection, all that stuff. That due diligence period is crucial,
Speaker 1: and so many people back out of that purchase during
Speaker 1: due diligence, right, And so I think due diligence is
Speaker 1: is probably the right phrase to use when we're talking
Speaker 1: about secondary costs of purchases we make doing that due diligence,
Speaker 1: taking that time period to factor in and to look
Speaker 1: at those secondary costs, and then whether your purchase is
Speaker 1: a wise one or not, whether you can afford it
Speaker 1: or you can't, or whether it's worth it to you
Speaker 1: or it isn't. Like that due diligence period is going
Speaker 1: to tell you, you you know, whether that purchase with its
Speaker 1: associated secondary costs, is right for you. Let's give examples
Speaker 1: of some of the hard secondary costs when it comes
Speaker 1: to buying a house that will kind of help put
Speaker 1: it into perspective. It's not just the hundred fifty or
Speaker 1: two price tag that's associated with the home for most people.
Speaker 1: When you buy a home, there are many other hard
Speaker 1: costs associated with owning that right. So in particular, you
Speaker 1: need to figure in closing costs, getting that home inspection,
Speaker 1: which can be four or more potential repairs on the
Speaker 1: home that you'll need to make immediately and over time, insurance.
Speaker 1: The list just goes on and on and on of
Speaker 1: the hard costs that you're gonna pay when you buy
Speaker 1: a home. You're gonna have taxes annually, on that home.
Speaker 1: The hard costs that are associated with the home purchase
Speaker 1: are real, they are lengthy, and they are necessary when
Speaker 1: you're considering whether you can afford that own purchase or not.
Speaker 1: And then in addition to this hard costs, man, there's
Speaker 1: the lifestyle or soft secondary costs. And these are things
Speaker 1: like furniture. Right. You get that big empty house and
Speaker 1: you've got all these extra rooms that you're so happy
Speaker 1: to have, and the first thing that most people do
Speaker 1: is they start buying furniture exactly. And then that's honestly
Speaker 1: been one of the biggest problems Matt is as home
Speaker 1: tizes have grown in America, they've pretty much doubled in
Speaker 1: the last thirty years. Certainly, the primary costs of more
Speaker 1: building material, of higher mortgage costs, right, that those factor in.
Speaker 1: But it's those secondary costs that really sink people so
Speaker 1: much of the time that they just didn't factor in.
Speaker 1: And a lot of it is these lifestyle secondary costs.
Speaker 1: It's the furniture to feel the ten rooms in your
Speaker 1: house versus the four rooms you would have had in
Speaker 1: something smaller. Yeah, man, And what's so crazy about something
Speaker 1: like furniture, right, is that this isn't a hard cost
Speaker 1: where it's it's one and done, like this is something
Speaker 1: that can change over time, and that can change with
Speaker 1: your taste. Who knows how much you could actually spend
Speaker 1: on furniture over the lifetime of a specific house because
Speaker 1: you could change your mind every I mean, you could
Speaker 1: change your mind every month. Right. That might be crazy,
Speaker 1: but you could. And so that's what's so difficult about
Speaker 1: these soft secondary cost or these lifestyle costs, is that
Speaker 1: it's kind of up to you as a consumer. And
Speaker 1: as we know, advertising in the way that's fashion and
Speaker 1: just different needs air quote needs are marketed to us. Uh,
Speaker 1: we feel convinced that we do need something different, We
Speaker 1: do need something that's fresher or a little slicker, or
Speaker 1: something that's a little more shiny. And that's what's so tricky, right, Like,
Speaker 1: that's the slippery slope of these lifestyle choices is that
Speaker 1: you have to keep yourself in check. And for most folks,
Speaker 1: it's not something that once you buy, once you're done.
Speaker 1: Like when you buy a couch, most folks aren't thinking, cool,
Speaker 1: I'm done with buying couches for the rest of my life.
Speaker 1: They know that they'll probably be a new one or
Speaker 1: a different one maybe in ten years or five or
Speaker 1: even like two or three years, which is crazy in
Speaker 1: my book. Yeah, Matt, when you put into perspective the
Speaker 1: overall costs that you're going to bear when you buy
Speaker 1: a house, it completely changes the equation, right, And we've
Speaker 1: talked about in multiple so as we've talked about, you know,
Speaker 1: renting a house versus buying, we've talked about why your house,
Speaker 1: a primary house, is a bad investment, and some of
Speaker 1: these secondary costs are the exact reason why a primary
Speaker 1: home is not always a good investment, and it's because
Speaker 1: you overspend, and it's a secondary cost that really turned
Speaker 1: that home purchase from something that might be okay into
Speaker 1: something that's terrible for your wallet. And honestly, like we
Speaker 1: touched on our home renovation earlier in the show, and
Speaker 1: that's something that Kate and I that we've struggled with.
Speaker 1: You start making improvements on your house, and you start,
Speaker 1: like you said, like the examples you gave those are
Speaker 1: pretty close to home because they're happening in our home
Speaker 1: right now. But yeah, you start making improvements and you
Speaker 1: have to make the decision where are we going to
Speaker 1: draw the line, Because you think Okay, we've got this
Speaker 1: wall open, why not why not go ahead and make
Speaker 1: this improvement, or let's go ahead and insulate this because
Speaker 1: you can justify it. You can say, oh, well, this
Speaker 1: is for energy savings. Oh, this is something that is
Speaker 1: gonna in the long term, it's gonna save us money.
Speaker 1: But eventually you're gonna run out of money and you're
Speaker 1: gonna have to say no, or you're not gonna run
Speaker 1: out of money, and you just need to say no. Right,
Speaker 1: you have to decide this is enough, We're happy with this.
Speaker 1: It doesn't matter that this isn't quite as nice. It's
Speaker 1: gonna be fine. And the same thing I think applies
Speaker 1: to our rental properties. Man, you and I both have
Speaker 1: rental properties, we have investment properties, and time to time
Speaker 1: things need to be replaced or upgraded because it's just old, nasty,
Speaker 1: and you have to make those decisions of where are
Speaker 1: you gonna draw the line because you, like you said,
Speaker 1: you you replace one item, say in the bathroom, and
Speaker 1: you think, Okay, that's gonna look terrible if we leave
Speaker 1: it like that, let's just go ahead and revamp the
Speaker 1: whole bathroom. Well, then you've got like a really nice bathroom,
Speaker 1: but the kitchen looks kind of rough, like you said,
Speaker 1: And so it's not necessarily only with consumption, but it
Speaker 1: can also be with what most folks would consider an investment.
Speaker 1: Where is a smart line to draw? And honestly, like
Speaker 1: that's the toughest question, and that's why it comes down
Speaker 1: to you as an individual. So yeah, Matt, let's give
Speaker 1: a few more example. It's just kind of flesh this out,
Speaker 1: because I feel like these examples really hammer home the
Speaker 1: reality of these hard secondary costs and the soft second
Speaker 1: area costs, which can make a purchase that looks good
Speaker 1: on the front end actually a bad one. And so
Speaker 1: let's take, for instance, going to college. The hard secondary
Speaker 1: costs of that are taking out loans, and those loans
Speaker 1: have interest unless you're this super uper smart person and
Speaker 1: you've got mad mega scholarships or whatever it is, which
Speaker 1: is awesome. Most people in America, I mean, obviously we
Speaker 1: all know the student loan debt crisis in America. One
Speaker 1: point five trillion dollars in student loan debt. It's just
Speaker 1: out of this world, right, It's crazy, and it's ruined
Speaker 1: the lives of many many people. You have to factor
Speaker 1: in as you are going off to college, as your
Speaker 1: kids are going off to college, those hard costs, the
Speaker 1: loans and interest, and what that's gonna do to you
Speaker 1: over the long haul, and you have to compare it
Speaker 1: to the usefulness of that college degree for you over
Speaker 1: the long haul, especially in a changing economy where requirements
Speaker 1: of individuals in the workforce are changing almost daily, not
Speaker 1: just every decade, right, but but almost daily that the
Speaker 1: requirements for young people coming to the workforce is changing.
Speaker 1: So if you have a college degree that you think
Speaker 1: today is going to be useful for the next thirty years,
Speaker 1: I mean, there's a small chance that you're right, but
Speaker 1: there's a big chance that you're wrong, and that those
Speaker 1: costs that you incurred actually aren't going to pay off
Speaker 1: in the way that you thought they were. Yeah, man,
Speaker 1: and even room and board, Like, if you're going off
Speaker 1: to college, it costs some money to survive. It costs
Speaker 1: some money to have a place to sleep and to live,
Speaker 1: and you gotta feed yourself even in college. But yeah,
Speaker 1: those are some of the hard secondary costs associated with college.
Speaker 1: And so some of the lifestyle secondary cost man associated
Speaker 1: with college are what sort of revolve around the experience
Speaker 1: what people think of when they go off to college
Speaker 1: and they want to have this sort of best four
Speaker 1: years of their life. You're talking about keggers, right, Yeah, kiggers,
Speaker 1: I mean like literally partying, but folks oftentimes will say
Speaker 1: instead traveling abroad or spring break. But all that sort
Speaker 1: of plays into the American mentality of like the college experience. Yeah,
Speaker 1: even going out to you with friends, Like it doesn't
Speaker 1: have to be something that where it's this huge, big
Speaker 1: ticket item, but just the sort of daily lifestyle thing,
Speaker 1: this aspect that people associate with college. Yeah, or going
Speaker 1: on a spring break trip with your friends, right, those
Speaker 1: are the kind of things that come up when you're
Speaker 1: in college. That are these lifestyle secondary costs, right, that
Speaker 1: you're going to incur if you can't keep it under control. Right,
Speaker 1: and and like we said at the beginning of the
Speaker 1: of the show, some of these are controllable. Some of
Speaker 1: these are under your control. You can decide to back up,
Speaker 1: hit the brakes on that spring break trip, and with
Speaker 1: that control, you're able to save yourself some money. Right.
Speaker 1: You could say no to eating out even though all
Speaker 1: your friends are doing it. We're just saying think about
Speaker 1: these things. Think about these costs that are likely to occur,
Speaker 1: because saying no in the moment can be really hard,
Speaker 1: because there are ways, especially with these lifestyle secondary costs,
Speaker 1: to actually cut down on those expenses. But just be
Speaker 1: aware that they are likely to at minimum tempt you
Speaker 1: to spend money on those things that other people around
Speaker 1: you are spending money on. Just know that some of
Speaker 1: those hard secondary costs are movable when you make that choice,
Speaker 1: and then some of those lifestyle secondary costs, they're either
Speaker 1: likely that you're going to make that choice or it's
Speaker 1: gonna take some resolve in order to make sure that
Speaker 1: you don't incur those costs. Yeah, that's right. At the
Speaker 1: very least, it's gonna be very tempting to also want
Speaker 1: to go on that trip. Yeah. And so another example,
Speaker 1: let's talk about cars or transportation, and so it's not
Speaker 1: just the cost of the car, right, there are a
Speaker 1: lot of hard secondary costs associated with vehicles, things like
Speaker 1: gas or insurance and repairs. Right. These are all things
Speaker 1: that you know in your head mentally that these are
Speaker 1: things I'm gonna have to pay, but it's not until
Speaker 1: you actually go to the mechanic and you get that
Speaker 1: bill or you start receiving that insurance bill, the rubber
Speaker 1: hits the road, exactly, you're gonna have to get new tires.
Speaker 1: This is when you're gonna realize how much owning a vehicle,
Speaker 1: owning a car is actually going to cost you. Yeah,
Speaker 1: the full amount of that original expense. Right. And so
Speaker 1: if you buy a new car for thirty dollars or
Speaker 1: a used car for five thousand dollars, there are secondary
Speaker 1: costs that are immovable to a large extent, right, Uh,
Speaker 1: And knowing that before you make the plunge is huge. So,
Speaker 1: for instance, in our state, matt when you buy a
Speaker 1: used car or a new car, you pay this. You
Speaker 1: pay the sales tax upfront day one, right. Well, and dude,
Speaker 1: in specific to Georgia, you don't even have to have
Speaker 1: purchased the vehicle. Even if you bring that vehicle from
Speaker 1: out of state into our state, you have to pay
Speaker 1: that tax. I know. I feel so insane. I feel
Speaker 1: so bad for anyone moving from another state, having bought
Speaker 1: a new car recently and having potentially paid sales tax
Speaker 1: in their home state, moving here and then paying it again. Honestly,
Speaker 1: it's highway robbery. It's it's not right. That's about my
Speaker 1: buddy cal that moved from New York. He's got a
Speaker 1: great job, makes makes a good amount of money. But
Speaker 1: he had recently purchased a Beamer fancy you know, fancy BMW. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and it was only a couple of years old, and
Speaker 1: he moved back to Atlanta, and dude, he got hit
Speaker 1: with like a five over five thousand dollar bill, not
Speaker 1: because he purchased it, but because he is registering and
Speaker 1: transferring that vehicle to the state of Georgia. That he
Speaker 1: got nailed with that like, welcome to Georgia, Dude, pay up. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's not right, it's rough. But those are the kind
Speaker 1: of cost right, So if I know that ahead of time,
Speaker 1: I can factor in, well, you know what, if I
Speaker 1: buy a thirty thousand dollar car, I'm going to be
Speaker 1: hit with a multi thousand dollar tax bill. If I
Speaker 1: buy a four thousand dollar car, I'll be hit with
Speaker 1: a multi hundred dollar tax bill. And that's a big difference.
Speaker 1: Right When we're factoring in those secondary costs, it massively
Speaker 1: influences the decision that we make on that primary purchase, right,
Speaker 1: and so directly in a car or a home, those
Speaker 1: secondary costs should have a major overriding influence, I would say,
Speaker 1: on whether we make the primary purchase to begin with,
Speaker 1: or whether we choose to make do with what we
Speaker 1: have or off for something maybe a little less fancy.
Speaker 1: You know, this actually makes me think of when you're
Speaker 1: purchasing a home and if you're actually well, if you're
Speaker 1: not paying cash, if you're getting alan which is I
Speaker 1: guess people out there and you get that. Actually, actually
Speaker 1: I think it's only seventy in that crazy Wait what
Speaker 1: for real? People pay cash for houses, let's ball, or
Speaker 1: not pay cash for houses but own their homes at
Speaker 1: least in full. Okay, so, but that would be interesting
Speaker 1: to know how whatds people pay cash for houses. It's fascinating.
Speaker 1: I'm curious. But either way, the Truth and Lending Statement,
Speaker 1: you know, I'm talking about the Truth and Lending Closure Statement, Yeah, exactly. Yeah.
Speaker 1: And it's got the chart and it's broken down by
Speaker 1: say you're getting a thirty year mortgage. It's got you know,
Speaker 1: the year that you're currently living in all the way
Speaker 1: out thirty years, and it has the tally of the
Speaker 1: full amount that you're actually paying an interest. That way,
Speaker 1: you actually know how much it's costing you to finance
Speaker 1: that house and to to go ahead and get a
Speaker 1: mortgage on it. It's like we need that but on
Speaker 1: everything in our life. Dishwasher, truth and lending statement, well
Speaker 1: except that you're not getting alone on your dishwasher hopefully,
Speaker 1: And to be honest, we actually have like some of
Speaker 1: those things in some reguards, right, We've got like the
Speaker 1: energy Yeah, that's what I was thinking, the energy smart
Speaker 1: stickers on like a TV or a washing machine, or
Speaker 1: let's say, on a credit card statement. There's a law
Speaker 1: that required credit card companies to put on and there
Speaker 1: your statement. You know how long it would take you
Speaker 1: to pay off your credit card bill if you're only
Speaker 1: to pay the minimum And that's just so helpful for
Speaker 1: a consumer to see because it's freaky enough to see
Speaker 1: the balance and the interest rate. But when you know
Speaker 1: that if you only pay the minimums, you're gonna be
Speaker 1: paying for thirty seven more years, I mean insane. Yeah,
Speaker 1: that a lot of fire under you, right, But back
Speaker 1: to a car mat Yeah, Like the biggest costs actually
Speaker 1: that people don't factor in at all is depreciation, especially
Speaker 1: if you're buying new right. That tax bill can be
Speaker 1: hard to handle. It can be many thousands of dollars
Speaker 1: in lots of states in one lump sum. But on
Speaker 1: top of that, and your depreciation costs are out of
Speaker 1: this world, and your car driving it off the lot
Speaker 1: is worth less than the day you bought it, and
Speaker 1: a few years in is worth less. So make sure
Speaker 1: you factor that in. Being someone the factors in secondary
Speaker 1: costs into the equation is being the opposite of a
Speaker 1: payment buyer. A payment buyer is what you don't want
Speaker 1: to be, right, You want to be the buyer that
Speaker 1: is being a smart purchase and that includes factoring in
Speaker 1: all those secondary costs. Yeah. Man. But then even on
Speaker 1: top of that, there are the lifestyle secondary costs. And
Speaker 1: I mean it kind of sounds silly to say, but
Speaker 1: just like car accessories, anything from tinting your windows to
Speaker 1: getting a trailer hitch for those spinny rims like you
Speaker 1: got on your van. They look amazing, though some of
Speaker 1: my friends. Steve totally had like the fake hub cap spinners.
Speaker 1: He watched he'd watched too much by Ride on MTV.
Speaker 1: Oh gosh, what was his name? Exhibit exhibit that's right,
Speaker 1: exhibit No, he really did watch that show and he
Speaker 1: went to auto zone and bought the plastic Rims slapped
Speaker 1: him on his red ninety seven caravan, and it was
Speaker 1: pretty awesome. That's a good look. I will say that
Speaker 1: the an even better look, though, was the fact that
Speaker 1: he had to tie his spinners down because when he
Speaker 1: got above like sixty miles per hour, they would like
Speaker 1: vibrate and make a loud racket, and he was afraid
Speaker 1: they're gonna fall off, so they take some string and
Speaker 1: he would he I mean, no joke, He tied his
Speaker 1: spinners to themselves so that they wouldn't spin. It sounds
Speaker 1: like there were some secondary cost to steve the reputation
Speaker 1: of him while doing this as well. And so those
Speaker 1: are silly sort of lifestyle choices. But even up to
Speaker 1: feeling like you have to now have a garage because
Speaker 1: you've got a new vehicle, dude, I'm gonna admit that
Speaker 1: this is something that I personally felt somewhat of a
Speaker 1: temptation to to do, not to necessarily get a garage,
Speaker 1: but to want to keep my new vehicle clean. So
Speaker 1: Katon I bought a somewhat late model Honda recently, and
Speaker 1: we just wanted that thing to look good, you know.
Speaker 1: We dropped all this money on it, and I felt that,
Speaker 1: you know what, we're gonna have the nice, newer vehicle.
Speaker 1: I want to make sure it looks good. And because
Speaker 1: of that, I was taking it to the car wash,
Speaker 1: like the five dollar car wash where you just zip
Speaker 1: through it real quick and it's so fast and easy
Speaker 1: and I don't have to do anything. But I was
Speaker 1: spending more money because I thought, Okay, I've got a
Speaker 1: new vehicle, I've got to keep it clean. I didn't
Speaker 1: have to keep it clean. That was just for me.
Speaker 1: That was my ego. I don't wanted to have a
Speaker 1: shiny ride. And so as silly as it is to
Speaker 1: say that, that's just something I did, I was falling
Speaker 1: into that trap. And part of me did think, man,
Speaker 1: this is this is why people do have garages, because
Speaker 1: they don't want the tree sap falling on their on
Speaker 1: their nice vehic all that they just spent money on.
Speaker 1: And fact is, though it doesn't matter, because like you said,
Speaker 1: it drops in the first five years of owning a
Speaker 1: new vehicle, and so it's not in an investment. This
Speaker 1: is pure consumption and these lifestyle secondary costs are are
Speaker 1: nothing but consumption. Man. I feel like the perfect example
Speaker 1: of kind of like what we were just talking about
Speaker 1: how you have actually a lot of control over these costs.
Speaker 1: Is the example of expensive hobbies. So, for example, golf
Speaker 1: golf can become either a ridiculously expensive hobby or it
Speaker 1: can be a relatively cheap one. You can travel all
Speaker 1: over the world to play the finest golf courses, pay
Speaker 1: enormous greens fees, pay for a caddy, pay for lodging
Speaker 1: while you're there, all those things, fancy clubs, nucleats, pants,
Speaker 1: all the works, right, or you can be the guy
Speaker 1: that goes to the Part three course three miles down
Speaker 1: the road, plays once a week. The greens fees are
Speaker 1: eleven dollars. There's such a range of options in there
Speaker 1: when you're talking about a hobby. We've talked about before
Speaker 1: in the show that I love to play disc golf.
Speaker 1: You love to play disc off. We play together, you know,
Speaker 1: rarely because we don't have them at a time, but
Speaker 1: when we do, it's amazing and there's almost no cost. Right,
Speaker 1: courses are free. You need one, maybe two discs to
Speaker 1: get started, and those are pretty cheap. Yeah, I've got three,
Speaker 1: but I only used to. I've got like eight and
Speaker 1: I only used to. So but so many of these
Speaker 1: hobbies that you could potentially devote a lot of time
Speaker 1: and energy to. Well, the actual cost that you will
Speaker 1: incur depends on you and not the hobby itself. That
Speaker 1: makes me think of like college football specifically, and you
Speaker 1: can be a college football fan and it can cost
Speaker 1: you pretty much nothing. Right. You can just read the
Speaker 1: articles online, keep up with what's going on, and then
Speaker 1: you could pick up a six pack and then take
Speaker 1: it over to your friend's house who has cable. He
Speaker 1: or she is stoked that you brought over some beer.
Speaker 1: This time, they'll be the cheap guy, and and then boom,
Speaker 1: you're enjoying the game. You're hanging out with your friends.
Speaker 1: It's cost you virtually nothing, right, Like, that's one end
Speaker 1: of the spectrum. Or you can be on the other
Speaker 1: end of the spectrum, right where you are forced to
Speaker 1: make these mandatory contributions to your school because they happen
Speaker 1: to have an awesome football program, and that gives you
Speaker 1: the option to then buy football tickets, right like the
Speaker 1: season tickets, which costs thousands of dollars. Sounds like a
Speaker 1: rackett to me, dude, it is a rackett. And then
Speaker 1: on top of that, parking and then the parking passes
Speaker 1: cost thousands of dollars. And and then on top of that,
Speaker 1: we were just talking about cars, like a lot of
Speaker 1: people buy vehicles specifically for tailgating. Like how many car
Speaker 1: commercials do you hear where they talk about tailgating? Or
Speaker 1: that's the scene. Right, there's some guys and they've got
Speaker 1: a pickup truck or the STUV and they're in the
Speaker 1: parking lot at a major stadium. Yeah, major stadium or
Speaker 1: or or a college football stadium. Either way. There are
Speaker 1: just so many expenses that can go towards an interest
Speaker 1: or a hobby like that, but it doesn't have to.
Speaker 1: It comes down to you. There's a reason why personal
Speaker 1: finance is personal. It depends on what you see as
Speaker 1: being a priority in your life. And we are here
Speaker 1: just to say be aware of these expenses. Be aware
Speaker 1: of yourself because you know what, if you're not gonna
Speaker 1: be able to resist not getting the parking pass because
Speaker 1: you want to be able to hang out with your
Speaker 1: friends and throw that awesome tailgate, just know that it's
Speaker 1: going to cost you another three grand for that parking
Speaker 1: past in addition to the tickets. Right, yeah, man, it
Speaker 1: kind of makes me think I think. Recently, on an episode,
Speaker 1: I mentioned how if I kind of came into some money,
Speaker 1: I might consider buying another bike. And yeah, right now
Speaker 1: where I'm at, I totally would not buy another bike.
Speaker 1: But I'm viewing my bike in a super utilitarian way
Speaker 1: right now, and I actually calculate how much my bike
Speaker 1: is saving me over using the car. So I'm thinking
Speaker 1: about it actually as not just a purchase that is
Speaker 1: for fun, but as something that can save me money
Speaker 1: over the long haul. But if I was thinking about
Speaker 1: it in a different mindset, in this kind of like
Speaker 1: the I want this mindset, Yeah, the I'm a huge
Speaker 1: football fan. How much money can I spend on this mindset?
Speaker 1: Right then I would have four or five different bikes
Speaker 1: and I would be getting them maintained regularly by a
Speaker 1: local bike shop where it costs money, right and instead
Speaker 1: of like do it yourself a little tweaks and fixes there.
Speaker 1: It's just a different mindset that goes into play when
Speaker 1: you're making a purchase like that. And so whether you're
Speaker 1: a college football fan or a fan of golf or
Speaker 1: disc golf, whatever it is that you're into, there are
Speaker 1: ways to pursue that passion. You're keeping those secondary costs
Speaker 1: in mind at the forefront of the decisions you make
Speaker 1: and how you pursue that passion. Yeah, that's right. You
Speaker 1: don't have to get the whole kitten caboodle to enjoy
Speaker 1: something that you have a passion for. Honestly, this makes
Speaker 1: me think of photography because for a lot of people,
Speaker 1: a lot of folks enjoy photography and they get a camera,
Speaker 1: and so a hard cost for photography might be the camera,
Speaker 1: because you've gotta have a camera if you are into
Speaker 1: taking pictures, right, But then there's all these lifestyle secondary
Speaker 1: costs associated with it that people kind of get roped into,
Speaker 1: especially with photography because a lot of times, if you're
Speaker 1: in the photography, you're into the gear, and so you
Speaker 1: get the bag to protect the camera and you get
Speaker 1: the lens flashes. I know all this from experience. But
Speaker 1: if you're doing it as a hobby, right, if you're
Speaker 1: doing it just as something that you're interested in, you
Speaker 1: can enjoy photography on the cheap by just sticking with
Speaker 1: some of the bay sick stuff, or you can go
Speaker 1: freaking crazy and get all the stuff and before you
Speaker 1: know it, you've got like ten in glass alone. And
Speaker 1: that's photography speak for lenses, right, because but it's called
Speaker 1: glass because that's what you're paying for it, Like, it's
Speaker 1: just expensive, expensive glass, and a lot of times it's
Speaker 1: so silly. And even photographers that do professionally, man, they
Speaker 1: get caught up in this sort of gear mentality and
Speaker 1: and just collecting and they just want to have everything
Speaker 1: match and for everything to all be the same. And
Speaker 1: it's not about function, it's not about the utility that
Speaker 1: it provides. It's it's more about emotions and what they
Speaker 1: feel they need. And so being aware of that again
Speaker 1: is something that is important because it does not cost
Speaker 1: a lot of money to be in a photography It
Speaker 1: costs a lot of money to collect photography gear. Yeah,
Speaker 1: that's a big difference. So after the break, there's just
Speaker 1: a few steps, a few simple steps that people can
Speaker 1: take in order to make a wise choice when they're
Speaker 1: making a purchase so that secondary costs don't sink that
Speaker 1: purchase and make it a dumb one. We'll talk about
Speaker 1: that in just a second. Let's get to the helpful
Speaker 1: and specific tips. Is it gonna be the things to
Speaker 1: remember when you're making these different purchases or some of
Speaker 1: these financial decisions Joel, why don't you kick it off? Yeah, so, Matt,
Speaker 1: I think the first thing to do is to have
Speaker 1: a little brainstorm session, right. You want to try to
Speaker 1: come up with as extensive of a list as you
Speaker 1: can of what cost you might incur based on that
Speaker 1: new purchase or decision, so home car, right, Like, some
Speaker 1: of those things are straightforward, some of those things aren't straightforward.
Speaker 1: The hard secondary costs are pretty straightforward when it comes
Speaker 1: to taxes on a two ll house first a hundred
Speaker 1: and fifty dollar house, But for the purchase, you have
Speaker 1: control over both the hard and the soft secondary costs
Speaker 1: once you make the purchase, right, those hard costs are
Speaker 1: baked in. You can't really change them. So brainstorming and
Speaker 1: knowing what they are ahead of time will help you
Speaker 1: make an informed decision so that you don't take on
Speaker 1: more than you can handle. That's right, man. That's like
Speaker 1: the research and information gathering step right, Yeah, exactly, that's
Speaker 1: right man. And so after you've gathered that information, the
Speaker 1: next step that you want to take is to evaluate yourself.
Speaker 1: You need to ask yourself, will I be able to
Speaker 1: say no to these secondary lifestyle costs that are associated
Speaker 1: with the initial purchase with the primary purchase. And what's
Speaker 1: helpful I think too, man, is we've recently talked about
Speaker 1: talking with your friends about money, and we talked about
Speaker 1: the impact that your friends have on you when it
Speaker 1: comes to expenses and spending, because it's natural that you
Speaker 1: want to hang out with your friends, right, you want
Speaker 1: to be in community, you want to feel like you're known,
Speaker 1: and so you're naturally going to spend the same amount
Speaker 1: that they spend. And so if you know all of
Speaker 1: your friends, when they become uh SEC football fans, you
Speaker 1: know what that means to them, right, You know whether
Speaker 1: they go over boarder, whether they're super chill about Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 1: And so are you willing to say no, sorry, I'm
Speaker 1: gonna us show up for a couple of games. I
Speaker 1: keep saying football, right, I keep saying college football being football,
Speaker 1: That's what I mean, Right, I mean, e'rero being in
Speaker 1: football because we're Atlanta United fans and so and even
Speaker 1: with us, man, it's a temptation. That's the question I
Speaker 1: asked myself, and so for Kate and I that was
Speaker 1: a tough discussion and we talked about this on the
Speaker 1: Couples and Money episode where we had our wives on.
Speaker 1: But again just no, no, yourself, know your friends, and
Speaker 1: just to be aware of the temptations and just be prepared. Yes,
Speaker 1: so you really do have to kind of know yourself
Speaker 1: and your tendencies and whether if you make the primary
Speaker 1: purchase you will be able to restrain yourself on those
Speaker 1: secondary costs, and then you need to do a cost
Speaker 1: benefit analysis. I think it's really important, right, Well, this
Speaker 1: purchase with all the primary costs and then all these
Speaker 1: secondary associated costs return what I'm looking for, what I want.
Speaker 1: Something as simple as additional sales tax on a purchase
Speaker 1: of a television, or as large as an interest rate
Speaker 1: on a home or student loan can help you make
Speaker 1: the decision to buy it, to go to school, right,
Speaker 1: or to not do that. College is great, But if
Speaker 1: you have to pay interest on a student loan, like
Speaker 1: purely hypothetical, right, there's a much smaller chance that you're
Speaker 1: going to go to school. And in the same way.
Speaker 1: For instance, recently on a TV mat it was Black
Speaker 1: Friday and there was this great deal. I've had the
Speaker 1: same TV for twelve years. I thought, you know what,
Speaker 1: maybe it's time for me to get a new TV.
Speaker 1: I saw the price it was great, I factored in
Speaker 1: sales tax and just maybe it means I'm cheap. I
Speaker 1: don't know. We talked about frugal versus cheap, but in
Speaker 1: my mind it just didn't move the needle enough for
Speaker 1: me after sales tax to make the purchase. So I
Speaker 1: declined and I said, I'm gonna stick with my TV
Speaker 1: for another year. And so a cost benefit analysis can
Speaker 1: just really help hammer home whether a purchase or a
Speaker 1: decision is worth it or not, and whether the benefit
Speaker 1: you're going to receive is equivalent to the outgoing costs
Speaker 1: associated with that move. And then finally, once you have
Speaker 1: all that information, once you've gathered that information, and then
Speaker 1: once you sort of analyze what kind of benefit is
Speaker 1: this going to bring to me? Is it going to
Speaker 1: be worth the cost? Once you have all the information together,
Speaker 1: you need to act on that information. You do not
Speaker 1: need to sweep that sort of under the rug just
Speaker 1: because you want to emotionally make a purchase that you
Speaker 1: know you shouldn't. Yeah, and that's the great thing about
Speaker 1: this matter, I think, is having numbers, having this process
Speaker 1: right so that you can't just emotionally sweep that something
Speaker 1: under the rug in order to make the decision that
Speaker 1: you want to in your heart. These steps kind of
Speaker 1: help quantify it so that you're not doing that. Let's right,
Speaker 1: Knowledge is power, right, and having that information will help
Speaker 1: you to make a better decision. You don't need to
Speaker 1: be sticking your head in the sand and just ignoring
Speaker 1: all that's around you just because you want to do
Speaker 1: what you want to do. Having that information helps you
Speaker 1: to make an informed decision. All right, Joel, Let's go
Speaker 1: ahead and get back to the beer. This is pretty
Speaker 1: Willie's Imperial Stouts and this is by Against the Grain. Yeah,
Speaker 1: so this is part of their Staved for later series,
Speaker 1: you would explain what staves are. So staves are the
Speaker 1: wooden pieces in a barrel that's made so like the
Speaker 1: individual wooden slats that come together to form an entire barrel.
Speaker 1: And so this is a barrel aged Imperial Stout that
Speaker 1: the brewery wants people to age for a certain period
Speaker 1: of time. And so I got this beer over a
Speaker 1: year ago from my awesome real estate agent and our
Speaker 1: mutual friend Matt Helen, both of our real estate agent. Yeah.
Speaker 1: Actually I was gonna say so in my story earlier
Speaker 1: where we met. It's coming full circle. Man, this wasn't
Speaker 1: at her house? Yes, yeah's Helen and Lee invited both
Speaker 1: you and Emily and me and Kate over to their
Speaker 1: house and we played. We played nerdy board games, and
Speaker 1: little did you know that that was gonna be the
Speaker 1: beginning of how to money of a beautiful friendship, fun
Speaker 1: podcast and an amazing real estate agent Helen, And so
Speaker 1: she's supersweet. She knows you know our love for craft beer,
Speaker 1: my love for craft beer. And she gave me this
Speaker 1: fantastic bottle of beer as a closing present, and I
Speaker 1: have let it age for over a year because that's
Speaker 1: the intent behind this beer. And so we're drinking it now,
Speaker 1: excited to finally have pretty Willie's Imperial Stout. And Matt
Speaker 1: both of us right at the beginning of the show,
Speaker 1: we each gave kind of one word to describe the beer,
Speaker 1: and this is a big beer. It's a huge stout. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I'm feeling it for sure, and I'm not even done
Speaker 1: with mine. So the word I used to describe it
Speaker 1: was roasty. Yeah, you said roasty, And honestly, now that
Speaker 1: I've had a little more, I don't think it's like
Speaker 1: the best word. I don't think it's the best word
Speaker 1: to begin with. I felt like an idiot setting it,
Speaker 1: but I said it. That's a good word. So it's
Speaker 1: But I bet you're wishing you would have said jacket.
Speaker 1: Definitely not wishing that, definitely not feeling that even at
Speaker 1: this point in time. But please tell us why you
Speaker 1: said jacket. Well, I mean I said jacket because as
Speaker 1: soon as I drank it, I felt like the texture
Speaker 1: of the beer before I tasted it, and it just
Speaker 1: felt like it was wrapping my tongue and like this
Speaker 1: nice winter coat full of like boozy warmth, you know
Speaker 1: what I'm saying. Like when you have a bigger beer
Speaker 1: like this, you can kind of feel the booze on
Speaker 1: your tongue before you actually even taste it with your
Speaker 1: I don't know your taste beds. And so for me,
Speaker 1: it was more of a texture thing because it's an
Speaker 1: Imperial stout, so it's a little bit thicker, and it's
Speaker 1: got all the roasted and multi chocolate flavors in it,
Speaker 1: which is funny because I think right after I said
Speaker 1: roasty like an idiot, and the next word that came
Speaker 1: to my mind was warming. Yeah, because it truly does.
Speaker 1: It's bourbon barrel aged. It has a nice bourbon flavor
Speaker 1: going on, and it almost warms you, like on a
Speaker 1: cold day when you have a sip of Scotch or bourbon.
Speaker 1: It almost kind of warms your insides just a little bit,
Speaker 1: sort of like you're wearing a jacket, sort of like
Speaker 1: a jacket touche. You win this one, sir, you win
Speaker 1: this battle, but you will not win the war. I
Speaker 1: guess jacket makes a little more sense now, um, awkwardly so,
Speaker 1: but yeah, this was a delicious beer. And we always
Speaker 1: mentioned untapped on there though. You can kind of rank
Speaker 1: and rate the beers that you get to enjoy, and
Speaker 1: for us, it's a great way to keep up with
Speaker 1: the different beers that we've had. Yeah, and so out
Speaker 1: of five stars, role, what would you give this beer?
Speaker 1: The great thing about on Tap two is that I
Speaker 1: feel like I can research beers to see what other
Speaker 1: people rank them before I make a purchase. And so
Speaker 1: you got pulled up. Don't tell me, don't tell well,
Speaker 1: let me rank mine. Let me rank it first. Okay
Speaker 1: for me, this is a great imperial style, I think
Speaker 1: I might dude, I would even give this a solid
Speaker 1: four and a half stars. Yeah, for me. It's a
Speaker 1: foreign a quarter, solid foreign a quarter. It's a really
Speaker 1: good beer. It's solid, dude, I really like it, but
Speaker 1: there's nothing that stands out to make it epic, but
Speaker 1: truly refined. Very nice. Glad, I laid it down, Glad.
Speaker 1: We got to drink this together. Nice foreign quarter and
Speaker 1: the average untapped rating four point to eight. Oh perfect,
Speaker 1: We're right on the money. Al right, Enough about the beer, Joel,
Speaker 1: It's time now for some final thoughts. Kick it off,
Speaker 1: all right, Matt, So just a reminder to everyone, there
Speaker 1: are secondary costs involved with almost any purchase or decision
Speaker 1: that you make in life, and it is important to
Speaker 1: consider both the hard secondary costs that are immovable that
Speaker 1: are there no matter what once you make that purchase
Speaker 1: or decision, and also the soft or lifestyle secondary costs
Speaker 1: that follow a purchase or decision that you make. These
Speaker 1: costs to fall outside of the original purchase amount, right,
Speaker 1: and they can turn what seems like a good purchase
Speaker 1: on the front end into one that does not work
Speaker 1: well for you or your budget. That's right, man. And
Speaker 1: the process of the things that you want to remember
Speaker 1: when you're making these purchases or financial decisions. First, of
Speaker 1: all brainstorm. You want to come up with a list
Speaker 1: of all the different costs, all the different secondary costs
Speaker 1: associated with that purchase. Next, you need to know yourself,
Speaker 1: how are you going to respond to the soft or
Speaker 1: lifestyle secondary costs associated with that? Will you be able
Speaker 1: to say no when you feel those cultural pressures to
Speaker 1: get the next piece that matches whatever it is that
Speaker 1: you just got. Next, you want to do an analysis.
Speaker 1: You know, will the purchased item bring the joy, bring
Speaker 1: the benefit and the utility that you're expecting it to
Speaker 1: bring in your life. And then lastly, you need to
Speaker 1: take all that information and you need to take action
Speaker 1: on what you've learned and what you've gathered. You don't
Speaker 1: want to sweep it under the rug. You don't want
Speaker 1: to stick your head in the sand. You want to
Speaker 1: take the next steps to either make that purchase or
Speaker 1: to not make that purchase based on what you've decided. So, everyone,
Speaker 1: we appreciate you listening to this episode of the podcast.
Speaker 1: Be sure to check out our website how to money
Speaker 1: dot com up there. As always, we will have some
Speaker 1: show notes with some additional links and some more information
Speaker 1: that we discussed in this episode. Yeah, if you like
Speaker 1: what you here. Let us know in particular, please leave
Speaker 1: a review on Apple podcast or wherever you're listening to
Speaker 1: the show. We really appreciate it, and don't forget to
Speaker 1: hit the subscribe button while you're there. All right, buddy,
Speaker 1: Until next time, Best friends Out, Best Friends Out, Man