Speaker 1: I've never been to trouble of my life. I didn't
Speaker 1: even have a parking ticket, and you know what I mean.
Speaker 1: I was brought up like cops are the good guys.
Speaker 1: I didn't know what was going to happen, but I
Speaker 1: do know that everything was stacked against me. Everything like
Speaker 1: everything this isn't supposed to happen this way. I'm innocent.
Speaker 1: I know I'm innocent. I know I had nothing to
Speaker 1: do with this. How is this possible? I grew up
Speaker 1: trusting the systems. I grew up believing that every human
Speaker 1: thing should do the right thing. And that's why, even
Speaker 1: though I was dealing with corrop people, I wasn't going
Speaker 1: to brave anyone to get me out of prison because
Speaker 1: I wouldn't live with the fact that I braved my
Speaker 1: way out of my wife's death. I'm not innocent to
Speaker 1: proven guilty. I'm guilty until I proved my innocence. And
Speaker 1: that's absolutely what happened to me. Our system. Since I've
Speaker 1: been out ten years, it's come a little ways, but
Speaker 1: it's still broken, a totally little trust in humanity after
Speaker 1: what happened to me. This is wrongful conviction. Welcome back
Speaker 1: to wrongful Conviction with Jason Flom. Today, I have a
Speaker 1: very special guest, my friend and my colleague on the
Speaker 1: board of the Innocence Project for a long time, Calvin Johnson. Calvin,
Speaker 1: welcome to the podcast. Thank you for having me. Calvin.
Speaker 1: You are an extraordinary I don't embarrass you, but you
Speaker 1: are an extraordinary person. Um. Your spirit uh really lights
Speaker 1: up every room that you walk into. And I've seen
Speaker 1: you walk into a lot of rooms, so I know this.
Speaker 1: But your story is insane in many ways, but also
Speaker 1: typical in certain ways of wrongful convictions. And I want
Speaker 1: to get right into that and I'll explain what I
Speaker 1: mean as we go along. But this goes back to
Speaker 1: three man, but I want to go back even a
Speaker 1: little further than that, because you grew up in a
Speaker 1: very nice environment, good family. I mean, can you explain
Speaker 1: what your what your childhood was like. I really had
Speaker 1: a really great childhood. Uh. I was brought up in
Speaker 1: a middle class setting. My father was a lawyer and
Speaker 1: my mother, she worked at a college as administrative assistant.
Speaker 1: My father later became a senator, the first black state
Speaker 1: senator in Hamilton County in Ohio. So I really well
Speaker 1: brought up in a very nice setting. I remember living
Speaker 1: in a nice home, having my own room, even had
Speaker 1: a game room with uh with slot car racing sets,
Speaker 1: train sets, and it was just a very, very very
Speaker 1: nice environment. I also kind of say, when I look
Speaker 1: back at it, I felt kind of protected because I
Speaker 1: wasn't exposed to a lot of negative things. Are a
Speaker 1: lot of bad things in the world. So I can
Speaker 1: remember days like when the first time I saw where
Speaker 1: Martin Luther King got assassinated and I saw my mother
Speaker 1: crying in front of the TV. It had a profound
Speaker 1: effect on me because I like, with what's going on.
Speaker 1: I saw people riding riding and and people protesting, and
Speaker 1: it's kind of just opened up my eyes to a
Speaker 1: lot of things. I said, Wow, look, look what's going
Speaker 1: on in the world. It's there's things out there that
Speaker 1: I hadn't even been aware of, and it really really
Speaker 1: started looking at the world a little bit different. None
Speaker 1: of this would have prepared you for what was about
Speaker 1: to happen, um in this on that faithful day in
Speaker 1: three when your life literally went from being I want
Speaker 1: to say a dream, but like your whole future was
Speaker 1: in front of you and everything was looking good. You're
Speaker 1: a smart guy. You came from a great family, you
Speaker 1: had good upbringing, you had every opportunity to be successful
Speaker 1: in the world, and then all of a sudden, you
Speaker 1: get arrested and charged with a crime that you had
Speaker 1: no knowledge of, nothing to do with, and then ultimately
Speaker 1: charged with another crime. I mean, this is a crazy
Speaker 1: story because there were two separate incidents, one of which
Speaker 1: was used against you in the trial for the other one,
Speaker 1: and then later on when the charges were dropped for
Speaker 1: that one, it was too late because you were I mean,
Speaker 1: it's it's really a nutty and terrifying scenario. What happened
Speaker 1: to you? And can you explain the circumstances of how
Speaker 1: this happened in the first place, and why did they
Speaker 1: focus on you? And how could they have gotten it
Speaker 1: so wrong? Like you said, it is it is a
Speaker 1: little crazy, Jayson, It really is. Uh. I'mna just go
Speaker 1: back just a little bit further, uh, in my upbringing,
Speaker 1: because I remember when my family moved to Atlanta, Georgia,
Speaker 1: and we moved into this this really nice neighborhood where
Speaker 1: there are professional football players and doctors and lawyers and
Speaker 1: people in the political field. And I'm riding around, I'm
Speaker 1: many bikes and motorcycles. Was growing up and and just
Speaker 1: living a great life. And it was it was considered
Speaker 1: the upper echelon of Atlanta for blacks at that time.
Speaker 1: And I went to college, and once I graduate from
Speaker 1: high school, I went to college with as you said,
Speaker 1: I went to college. I was at Clark College in Atlanta,
Speaker 1: Georgia and getting my education. Uh. And I graduated with
Speaker 1: a bachelorists Arts and mass Communications. And you would never
Speaker 1: imagine anything like this happening to me. But then I
Speaker 1: had a little bit of a wild streak. Like most kids,
Speaker 1: I was adventurous. Uh. I didn't just always stay on
Speaker 1: the echelon side with the the good kids. I had
Speaker 1: the tendency to go over into the to to the
Speaker 1: lower neighborhoods. I wouldn't say, I don't like to say lower,
Speaker 1: but I would say economic that're not as successful as
Speaker 1: we were. And when I used to go over there,
Speaker 1: I just hang out with those guys. And I was
Speaker 1: doing a few things things that I shouldn't have had
Speaker 1: had no business door. I had to be honest about it.
Speaker 1: I drinking, smoking marijuana, hav them from party and chasing
Speaker 1: the girls. And I just got involved into things that
Speaker 1: had no business being involved with. I knew people that
Speaker 1: will buy hot items, and I knew people that were
Speaker 1: committing crimes, and I got mixed up with some of
Speaker 1: the wrong people and I actually, UH did something I
Speaker 1: had no business doing. That started to the ball the rolling.
Speaker 1: I put myself in that position in the beginning. Uh
Speaker 1: uh did commit a burglary to UH. I'll tell you
Speaker 1: what led up to that. I had brought some marijuana
Speaker 1: one day and at at time when I was buying
Speaker 1: the marijuana. Uh, the police actually pulled up and arrested
Speaker 1: me and charged me with the marijuana. UM been having
Speaker 1: that case. I went to see a lawyer, and the
Speaker 1: lawyer was pretty expensive and I didn't have the money.
Speaker 1: So my my friends on the other side of the
Speaker 1: tracks set wait, man, we can get you some money.
Speaker 1: Just go ahead and UH, if you bring us a
Speaker 1: few hot items and we will take care of it
Speaker 1: and you can you can get you a lawyer. So
Speaker 1: I went across the What I did was I committed
Speaker 1: a burglary and got caught, and that's what really started everything.
Speaker 1: I was pleaded guilty to that because I was guilty,
Speaker 1: you know, I I set responsibility for anything that I've done.
Speaker 1: But if there's something that you say that I did
Speaker 1: that I didn't do, then we got a battle on
Speaker 1: our hands. So that's that's what put you in the
Speaker 1: crosshairs of the the authorities. Right. So when this, you know,
Speaker 1: when they had this, uh, this terrible incident where this
Speaker 1: woman had her house broken into. It was in College Park,
Speaker 1: I think, right, Georgia, and um, a woman's house was
Speaker 1: broken into and she was tied up with a belt
Speaker 1: or strangled with a belt and the I mean, it's
Speaker 1: a terrible, terrible crime, and she was raped, um and
Speaker 1: robbed and the whole thing. And then how did it
Speaker 1: end up where they came to arrest you? What made
Speaker 1: them suspect that you were the guy that did this?
Speaker 1: Ultimately was proven that you didn't. But how did that?
Speaker 1: I mean, can you explain that whole scenario, because that's
Speaker 1: where this thing goes really off the tracks. Okay, I'm
Speaker 1: explaining it as best I can. At the time, when
Speaker 1: I got arrested for the burglary, that's basically all that
Speaker 1: I was guilty of. Uh. They have some other crimes
Speaker 1: that have happened, uh rape or to that happened in
Speaker 1: the area of the burglary, and so they decided that
Speaker 1: they were going to clear the record books and charge
Speaker 1: me with those those rapes. And this was back in
Speaker 1: nineteen eighty one, and we were gett ready to go
Speaker 1: to trial and everything. And the only thing that really
Speaker 1: cleared my name was that the lady that was assaulted
Speaker 1: and rape in this particular case, she was honest and
Speaker 1: I really appreciate her honesty. She said that I'm positive
Speaker 1: that the person that raped me was an uncircumcised individual,
Speaker 1: and I have been circumcised since birth because I was
Speaker 1: born in Cincinnatial how Uh in the Jewish hospital and
Speaker 1: was circumcised since birth. And so once that was brought out,
Speaker 1: they dropped the charges UH on the rape. And basically
Speaker 1: I just went to prison for for burglary and I
Speaker 1: did about a year, maybe a year and a half,
Speaker 1: got back out, started my life over, UH, trying to
Speaker 1: do the positive things and working out every day, going
Speaker 1: to work every day. I was living in my parents
Speaker 1: house at the time, and shortly one day I was
Speaker 1: coming home. I never forget that day. It was a beautiful,
Speaker 1: beautiful day that day, it was a spring day, and
Speaker 1: I was coming home and I felt a strange feeling.
Speaker 1: Something just wasn't right. And as I walked into the house,
Speaker 1: No sooner than I walked into the house, there was
Speaker 1: that knock on the door, like doo doom, doom. I
Speaker 1: tell people that was the weight of the state. They
Speaker 1: busting the door. They put handcuffs on me, extremely tight,
Speaker 1: so tight that still got bruises on my risk all
Speaker 1: these years later, and they dragged me out and they
Speaker 1: charged me with these rapes. And it was the same
Speaker 1: police officers that had arrested me earlier, and so now
Speaker 1: they're charging me with some more rapes, saying that you
Speaker 1: got to be guilty, and we feel you're guilty of this.
Speaker 1: But I, you know, I was innocent, had no connection
Speaker 1: with the uh, the victim or anything. And I remember
Speaker 1: being in that code damp, dark cell and just waiting
Speaker 1: to be uh, to be clear anything. I thought, Okay,
Speaker 1: this is America. You know. I brought up America believing
Speaker 1: in the judicial system and injustice and justice for all,
Speaker 1: and once that happened, I just I just never ever,
Speaker 1: I never believe that I would go to prison. I
Speaker 1: said anything, They're gonna walk in here and say, hey,
Speaker 1: you're not guilty, You're free. And this is basically how
Speaker 1: it had all started. Those same police officers that have
Speaker 1: previously arrested a couple of years earlier arrested me again
Speaker 1: in three and decided that, okay, now we're gonna make
Speaker 1: sure that we we got this guy this time. But
Speaker 1: they had the wrong guy. I'm getting the very strong
Speaker 1: visual of you and knowing you as I do, and
Speaker 1: every time I see you wearing a suit and a
Speaker 1: big smile and everything else, and now I'm picturing quite
Speaker 1: the opposite, right, I'm picturing you in this, as you said,
Speaker 1: the cold, dark, damp cell, and still thinking that the
Speaker 1: justice system is going to be just, and that because
Speaker 1: you didn't do and had no knowledge and we weren't
Speaker 1: involved in any way in any of these in these
Speaker 1: particular crimes, that you were going to be freed probably
Speaker 1: relatively shortly. And this, but this proceeded to trial um
Speaker 1: in in actually a shorter time than many of the
Speaker 1: cases that we see here. It was about six months
Speaker 1: right until you ended up actually on trial for your life,
Speaker 1: literally for your life, that's true, Jason, Uh. I mean
Speaker 1: they put me into a live line up before I
Speaker 1: went to trial, and in that live lineup they actually
Speaker 1: were trying to select the person that committed the crime
Speaker 1: and the individual Joe who I actually went to prison
Speaker 1: for wolf of life sentence. The individual that actually went
Speaker 1: to prison for picked out another person did not did
Speaker 1: not pick out Calvin C. Johnson Jr. And all this
Speaker 1: were brought out in a preliminary hearing where they were
Speaker 1: trying to decide whether or not if they were going
Speaker 1: to indict this case and carry it on over to
Speaker 1: have trial. I remember during the preliminary hearing when they
Speaker 1: were brought out that hey, that this individual picked out
Speaker 1: somebody else. I'm sitting there thinking like wow, you know,
Speaker 1: uh am, I gonna go home now and they're gonna
Speaker 1: go ahead and just drop the case. And then there
Speaker 1: was some other facts brought out because they asked this
Speaker 1: individual about her identification procedures how he was identified, and
Speaker 1: apparently they said that I was supposed to be identified
Speaker 1: through a photographic from a photographic lineup in the beginning,
Speaker 1: and in question in this individual, they said, well what
Speaker 1: kind of uh photographs? Were they? Color? Were they black
Speaker 1: and white? And she was kind of shake like, you know,
Speaker 1: she wasn't sure, and she actually said, well, I think
Speaker 1: they were color. They were colored pictures. So later on
Speaker 1: we brought a police officer in who had been said questioned,
Speaker 1: so he didn't hear what she said. And when he
Speaker 1: came in, we asked him, do you have the pictures
Speaker 1: with you today that Calvin Johnson was identified from? And
Speaker 1: he said, yes, I do, and he showed them to
Speaker 1: us and there were a serious of small black and
Speaker 1: white pictures. And I'm sitting there in the courtroom, you know,
Speaker 1: my eyes are wide, my head is shaken back and
Speaker 1: forth because I'm in disbelief, and I'm saying, well, cat
Speaker 1: to just see that something that's not right here. And
Speaker 1: I kept believing that I would actually uh at that moment,
Speaker 1: and they meant a minute, you would say okay, you're
Speaker 1: free to go. I remember sit going back to my
Speaker 1: cell and sitting in that selling, you know, just wondering
Speaker 1: what's going on, what's going on? And so one day
Speaker 1: they dragged me out that cell, Jason. They just took
Speaker 1: me and then Jack dragged me out. They handcuffed me
Speaker 1: all around my waisting around my ankles and took me
Speaker 1: to a local hospital and sent me in the room
Speaker 1: with the door wide open, and then it made me
Speaker 1: stripped down and they just they didn't close the door.
Speaker 1: Was inhumane, and they started plucking hairs from my body
Speaker 1: and taking blood samples and for comparison purpose to uh,
Speaker 1: to see if anything matched up with the individual that
Speaker 1: committed the crime. And as they did all this, Jason,
Speaker 1: I remember when they came back and they said, well
Speaker 1: I got I got good news and I got bad news.
Speaker 1: I said, well, what's the good news and what's the
Speaker 1: bad news. What the good news is that the hair
Speaker 1: sapples came back and they matched uh. They they belonged
Speaker 1: to a person of African American ancestry, but the hair
Speaker 1: sapple did not match you. I said what, I said, Well, hey,
Speaker 1: am I going home now? They said, well, no, that's
Speaker 1: the bad news. You know, the blood sapple came back
Speaker 1: and it was a positive. They didn't have DNA technology
Speaker 1: they weren't using it in the courts at that time.
Speaker 1: And said, oh positive, Well, most of America America is
Speaker 1: a positive, but Jordy and the population is a positive.
Speaker 1: And because I'm a positive, the person that committed crown
Speaker 1: with a positive. They decided, okay, we're gonna go forth
Speaker 1: with the trial because he must have committed the crime.
Speaker 1: I mean, it was really really crazy. I mean even
Speaker 1: the jury selection was crazy. They it was in the
Speaker 1: county that were predominantly white, Clayton County, Georgia, and they
Speaker 1: had three or four blacks which they systematically struck from
Speaker 1: the jury, and I ended up with for all white jury.
Speaker 1: The victim was white. And as we proceeded to to
Speaker 1: the trial portion, I'm sitting there facing the all white
Speaker 1: jury with a victim that's white. That's crime, importing the
Speaker 1: finger and saying, this black man raped her. What chance
Speaker 1: they would I have? Jason, I mean, what chance in
Speaker 1: a situation like that, you have no chance for soever.
Speaker 1: And that's why I emphasized the fact of the fact that,
Speaker 1: you know, a jury needs to be culturally diverse, different
Speaker 1: ethnic backgrounds, otherwise you don't stand much of a chance. Basically,
Speaker 1: I was railroaded, and through the course of the trial
Speaker 1: a lot, a lot of evidence was brought out in
Speaker 1: my behalf at alibi testimony. I was at home living
Speaker 1: with my parents. We had a dog because you know,
Speaker 1: my dad, I didn't even have a car at the time,
Speaker 1: and my dad, you know, was taking would take me
Speaker 1: to work in the morning time every day. And all
Speaker 1: this was brought out you know that you know that
Speaker 1: was at home my parents. My player came, he testified
Speaker 1: at the trial, and he even showed my employee I
Speaker 1: D picture of me having a full beer, said, Calvin
Speaker 1: Johnson has a full beer that had a full bear
Speaker 1: at that time, and they didn't. They didn't, So I
Speaker 1: just want the victim had told the authorities that the
Speaker 1: assailant was clean shaving. Is that right? Well, she said
Speaker 1: that he had I think if I remember quickly that
Speaker 1: she said that he had a mustache. Uh. And she
Speaker 1: didn't even describe anything about any facial here until later
Speaker 1: on what she actually said that it may have been
Speaker 1: some stomach so, but she never mentioned anything about yea.
Speaker 1: So so so here you are, I mean, and what's
Speaker 1: you know, what's common common factors that we see in
Speaker 1: your case are I witness been's identification and invalidated or
Speaker 1: improper forensic science. And in this case it was flawed sorology,
Speaker 1: right because, as you were saying, the idea that the
Speaker 1: lab analysts testified at trial that thirty six percent of
Speaker 1: the male population could be excluded as potential contributors to
Speaker 1: the semen was absolutely wrong because in this case, the
Speaker 1: victim and the and the perpetrator shared um shared common traits,
Speaker 1: which actually meant for reasons that are that are complex
Speaker 1: in science. But basically, the victim's blood group markers could
Speaker 1: have been masking the perpetrators and under such circumstances, the
Speaker 1: failure I'm reading this part, the failure to inform the
Speaker 1: jury that of the male population could have been included
Speaker 1: and that none could be excluded, was highly misleading. Even
Speaker 1: still though all you're doing, even if she was right,
Speaker 1: which she wasn't, you would say that you can only
Speaker 1: eliminate the population. That's not enough to convict somebody instead
Speaker 1: of the prison for the rest of their life when
Speaker 1: you have all of this exculpatory evidence that was brought forward.
Speaker 1: But the fact is you were in a in a
Speaker 1: impossible situation, as you described, and you had virtually no chance.
Speaker 1: So what was that moment, if you could describe the
Speaker 1: courtroom at that moment, was when? When? When that the
Speaker 1: most terrible moment of your life when the jury came
Speaker 1: back and and rendered you guilty. It was sad. The
Speaker 1: reason why I used the word said because my parents
Speaker 1: were there. I'm a pretty I kind of looked at
Speaker 1: myself as a pretty tough guy. But I here the
Speaker 1: guilty verdict and I'm looking back. That's the first thing
Speaker 1: I did. I looked back at my mom and I
Speaker 1: can see the expression on her face, dispression of a disbelief.
Speaker 1: But my dad was he it was like, you know,
Speaker 1: he had a serious look because my dad had a
Speaker 1: little more knowledge and he knew what was going on,
Speaker 1: and he knew that my chances were slim, So I
Speaker 1: don't think he was surprised. But a mother's love for
Speaker 1: her son and something special, and it just it literally
Speaker 1: broke her heart. And I can see it. I can
Speaker 1: see it at that time, and that's what bothered me
Speaker 1: more than anything, you know, looking back and only seeing
Speaker 1: my mom's expression, you know, and I can see it.
Speaker 1: It was written all over her face. And shortly after that,
Speaker 1: my mom did suffer a very serious stroke because it
Speaker 1: broke You get taken away, ultimately sentenced to a double
Speaker 1: life term, right and taken to prison. And you've I've
Speaker 1: heard you in a speech that you gave, very powerful
Speaker 1: speech that you gave explain what that was like. And
Speaker 1: it just blew my mind. So to take us there, Calvin,
Speaker 1: you what what prison were you sent to. I was
Speaker 1: sent to a prison in South Georgia. I was actually
Speaker 1: sent to the hardest working UH state prison in the
Speaker 1: state of Georgia. At that time, I was young years
Speaker 1: old UH and they decided that, you know, this is
Speaker 1: a young person, that he can go down there. And
Speaker 1: it was really basically they sent you down into this
Speaker 1: prison and you work. It's a work camp. And everybody
Speaker 1: in the prison is a small prison, no no more
Speaker 1: than made about two men. But everybody there either has
Speaker 1: life sentence or twenty years more. There's no short time
Speaker 1: is there at all. It's a close security prison. And
Speaker 1: you go outside and early in the morning. You wake
Speaker 1: up in the morning and they feed you. They walk
Speaker 1: around the shotgun above you like as if they say, hey,
Speaker 1: you know, feed my boys good and and the warden's
Speaker 1: walking around and he's looking down at you. And then
Speaker 1: they take you out. And I remember working in swamp
Speaker 1: land and swamp water, and and with with water up
Speaker 1: to my knees, with moccasons swimming around and every now
Speaker 1: and then you run across a rattlesnaking. And this was
Speaker 1: something that I never deal with in my life. It
Speaker 1: was it was really, it was just it was crazy,
Speaker 1: and I had to make this adjustment to just deal
Speaker 1: with that, and to deal with the valance of prison,
Speaker 1: where you're sleeping in your bed at night with your
Speaker 1: with your shoes on, because you never know when you
Speaker 1: might wake up in the middle of the night. I
Speaker 1: remember one time individual I was sleeping on a double
Speaker 1: bunk and the bunk below me started shaking in the
Speaker 1: middle of the night, and I looked down and the
Speaker 1: guy below me were being stabbed because he borrowed some
Speaker 1: money I borrowed. Basically, it's not money, but cigarettes are
Speaker 1: candy or something, and he and pay his debt, and
Speaker 1: so it's it's his own world, as we call this
Speaker 1: on the outside, the free world. The prison world is
Speaker 1: a whole different world in itself, and it's run differently,
Speaker 1: and it's just a matter of survival. You got you
Speaker 1: go in there, you and you try to survive. And
Speaker 1: the strong pay prayer upon the week, so you have
Speaker 1: to be strong. So during those course of years when
Speaker 1: I was in prison, I used to just lift weights
Speaker 1: all the time. It was a way, it was a therapy.
Speaker 1: It was a way for me to relieve some of
Speaker 1: the anxiety and the emotions that were after I lifted them.
Speaker 1: I was too tired to do anything or to get
Speaker 1: in any trouble. Plus it built me up physically so
Speaker 1: that I could defend myself or at least people would
Speaker 1: think twice about before trying to take advantage of me anyway,
Speaker 1: because I was physically fit. And those years went by,
Speaker 1: and I remember being in prison and they wanted us to, uh,
Speaker 1: you know, prison doesn't rehabilitate you, but they like to
Speaker 1: make society think that that then the rehability of telling people.
Speaker 1: And they had this program and they're called the Sexual
Speaker 1: Offenders program that they wanted me to be involved in.
Speaker 1: And I'm like, hell, you want me to be involved
Speaker 1: in the sexual offenders program? And so I had people
Speaker 1: make suggestions and say stuff like, you know, even my
Speaker 1: family just just hey, just just do the program, play
Speaker 1: along with them so that you can get out. And
Speaker 1: so you you you actually think about this, you know,
Speaker 1: crazy thought. But I'm like, hey, I can't sit there
Speaker 1: and and say I did something that I didn't do.
Speaker 1: So I went ahead and got into the program for
Speaker 1: for a little while. And as I was in the program,
Speaker 1: you go through the first half. I felt terrible. I'm
Speaker 1: sitting in the room with with sexual predators, rapists and
Speaker 1: child molesters, and I just I just don't feel right.
Speaker 1: I don't say anything. I'm just sitting there in the
Speaker 1: room every day going through this little class. And then
Speaker 1: finally they complete that part and you get to the
Speaker 1: second portion of the program and they say that in
Speaker 1: order to complete the program, you have to sign and
Speaker 1: admission to up. And I'm like, what sign a mission
Speaker 1: to guilt? I said, I can't do that. How can
Speaker 1: I can't do that because I'm not guilty. And then
Speaker 1: I went to see my counselor, and the counselor looked
Speaker 1: at me and looked me in my eyes and told
Speaker 1: me said, listen, if you don't sign that mission of guilt,
Speaker 1: you'll probably never ever get out of prison. You'll be
Speaker 1: here for the rest of your life. And so guys
Speaker 1: were taking this course and signing the mission as a
Speaker 1: guilt and then they will get paroled out. But I
Speaker 1: sat there, I thought about it. I prayed about it,
Speaker 1: and I thought about it, and I said to myself,
Speaker 1: I'd rather die in prison to sit there and say
Speaker 1: that I did something that I didn't do. I said,
Speaker 1: what kind of life would I have come out of prison.
Speaker 1: With that stigma over me, I said I couldn't live.
Speaker 1: I walk out into my yard and the neighbor run
Speaker 1: out and grabbed the children and run inside the house.
Speaker 1: That's not a life, that's not a life. So I
Speaker 1: refused to do it. Those years went on, and those
Speaker 1: years went on within prison, and I remember getting to
Speaker 1: a point where my temporary started getting short. I started
Speaker 1: being anti social. I felt like a walking time bomb.
Speaker 1: I felt like a rubber band being stretched to a
Speaker 1: point that would just get ready to take pole and
Speaker 1: just pop. And I remember at that point, at that time,
Speaker 1: I just got down on my knees and I prayed.
Speaker 1: I prayed, and I couldn't deal with the burden. That's
Speaker 1: when God entered into my life and my life changed.
Speaker 1: And then I remember hearing about DNA technology. This is
Speaker 1: down getting to the part of the story that's, you know,
Speaker 1: always the best part, I guess, right, which is when
Speaker 1: things turn around in the right direction. And in your case,
Speaker 1: it was the Innocence Project, which obviously I have a
Speaker 1: very close connection with, being the founding board member and
Speaker 1: and being having served on the board for so many
Speaker 1: years and so many years alongside you, and so you
Speaker 1: started learning about the DNA technology, and it must have
Speaker 1: been like a light bulb going off, like wait, there
Speaker 1: might be hope for me after all. Yes, yes, that's
Speaker 1: exactly what happened. I uh. I was working in the
Speaker 1: in the library in the prison. Because of my educational background,
Speaker 1: they gave me a job in the library. And they
Speaker 1: had the regular library for the prisoners, the convicts, and
Speaker 1: they also had a law library that that you could
Speaker 1: use at times. And the staff member who he ran
Speaker 1: both libraries, and he would allow me to have ass
Speaker 1: to go into the law library whenever I wanted. And
Speaker 1: one day I stumbled across the article DNA technology where
Speaker 1: people were actually getting out of prison based on this technology,
Speaker 1: and I said, wow, now I'm trying to figure out
Speaker 1: how how the heck can I get a DNA test.
Speaker 1: I really really really really really wanted to do that
Speaker 1: to to prove that I was innocent, but that was
Speaker 1: a struggle in itself. And they had a guy named
Speaker 1: Jim Browner, Jim Bonner. He used to come into the
Speaker 1: prisoner He was with this project called Prisoner Legal Counseling
Speaker 1: Projects who did a little simple stuff like habeas corpus
Speaker 1: for prisoners and so forth and I talked to him.
Speaker 1: I told him about my situation, and he's actually the
Speaker 1: one that got the balls started in the beginning, because
Speaker 1: when I told him about it, I told him my
Speaker 1: whole story. And after that, I looked him in the eyes.
Speaker 1: I said, you don't have to believe a word I said,
Speaker 1: I said, but let me sing you my transcript. And
Speaker 1: I gave him my transcript and one day he read
Speaker 1: it and he came back. He said, Man, I can't
Speaker 1: believe this. He said, I'm really I really want to
Speaker 1: try to do something to help you because this is
Speaker 1: an atrocity in himself. And he said, I just can't
Speaker 1: believe that this happened to you. And he started trying
Speaker 1: to see that there was some type of way that
Speaker 1: we can uh do something about my situation, and he
Speaker 1: found uh basically the most called extraordinary motion based on
Speaker 1: newly discovered evidence and to try to see if David
Speaker 1: had evidence, if it still existed. And so they went
Speaker 1: on the searching to see if the evidence even still existed,
Speaker 1: and in my case is one of the really strange
Speaker 1: cases because at first they couldn't find it. But what
Speaker 1: happened was they had actually were going to destroy the evidence.
Speaker 1: There was no laws at that time. They said they
Speaker 1: had to keep it after after the trial and evidence
Speaker 1: had been thrown into a trashman to be destroyed, and
Speaker 1: somebody from the court they saw it and they said, hey,
Speaker 1: why is this evidence being destroyed and throw it away?
Speaker 1: And they took it and they put it back. The
Speaker 1: evidence that freed you was actually in a trash can
Speaker 1: and somebody show it and had like your name on
Speaker 1: it or something like that, and was like, wait, let
Speaker 1: me pluck that out. Is that it seems like it
Speaker 1: seems unreal. It does. It does seem very unreal. But
Speaker 1: this is exactly how it was explained to me that
Speaker 1: it was actually, you know, in a trash being to
Speaker 1: be destroyed. I looked at it. It was a miracle.
Speaker 1: It was a miracle. And so the evidence was was
Speaker 1: was brought back out and that was the evidence that
Speaker 1: they were going to test. But then after that they
Speaker 1: they took and then the prison of ligal counselor project
Speaker 1: that was helping me with this guy, they actually stopped
Speaker 1: the project. So I'm looking, I said, well, wow, now
Speaker 1: what did I do? And then a friend, a friend
Speaker 1: of mine who knew the plight of my situation who
Speaker 1: lived in Ohio, who I grew up with. They were
Speaker 1: at I guess what you call, the place where you
Speaker 1: hand out food and clothing and so forth to people
Speaker 1: to come through that that are in need. And some guy,
Speaker 1: this was in Ohio. I don't know who the guy was,
Speaker 1: but some some guy was in the line and he
Speaker 1: was young, and and my I called my at Marty,
Speaker 1: who was my godmother. She said, well, you know, man,
Speaker 1: why don't you have a job. Why are you in
Speaker 1: this line? And he said, well, I just recently got
Speaker 1: out of prison, and he told her about he mentioned
Speaker 1: about the Innocent Project. He said, they got me out
Speaker 1: a prison for a crime I didn't commit. And they said, wow,
Speaker 1: you know, keep us the information. Just give us that
Speaker 1: information and we'll bring you some more clothes and help
Speaker 1: you out a little bit more. Just give us the
Speaker 1: information card. We know somebody in the same situation, and
Speaker 1: they wrote me a letter and he gave me the
Speaker 1: information about the Innocent Project. And that's when I got
Speaker 1: in contact with the Innocent Project. And this was not
Speaker 1: too long after the Innocent Project had started, because we're
Speaker 1: talking about late nineties now, right, um, And so yeah,
Speaker 1: so you because I know that you were the first
Speaker 1: uh d n A ex honoree in Georgia. Right, That's
Speaker 1: that's a powerful thing. I mean, that's that No one's
Speaker 1: ever gonna take that away from you. I know that's
Speaker 1: not you know, I always say to all the guests
Speaker 1: that we have on the show, you know, I'm happy
Speaker 1: you're here, but I'm sorry you're here because you're a
Speaker 1: member of a club that no one should ever have
Speaker 1: to be a member of, a no one would ever
Speaker 1: want to be a member of. But that is an
Speaker 1: amazing distinction. And of course now you're irving with distinction
Speaker 1: not only on the Instence Project parting you're up and
Speaker 1: also the board of the Georgia Instence Project. So that's
Speaker 1: so there's two there's two miracles here, right, One is
Speaker 1: pulling the thing out of the garbage can, and the
Speaker 1: other is bumping into this guy sort of randomly who
Speaker 1: had this information that you were looking for. And then
Speaker 1: things started to really progress once I got involved with
Speaker 1: the Insistence Project. Actually, uh, you know, once they took it,
Speaker 1: I actually I have very strong faith in them. I
Speaker 1: believe once they took it, I said, okay, wow, just
Speaker 1: a matter of time before I walk away and then
Speaker 1: I'm I'm free. But then they took and they had
Speaker 1: my evidence tested, and once they had it tested, it
Speaker 1: came back where it was inconclusive. At first, it actually
Speaker 1: came back inconclusive. And then I remember talking to Barry
Speaker 1: and Peter on the phone and they were saying, you
Speaker 1: got a choice. You know, what what are you gonna
Speaker 1: do now? They said, all the evidence is basically almost
Speaker 1: almost used up if we continue to test there. What
Speaker 1: happened is if we use up out evidence, you'll never
Speaker 1: get out of prison, coup, we won't have anything that's
Speaker 1: to test. Or you can wait till years later with
Speaker 1: technology improves, as we get better technology, then we can
Speaker 1: test that small amount of evidence and try to get
Speaker 1: the proper result. They said, we do an know a
Speaker 1: guy in California and doctor Edward Blake, who's really good.
Speaker 1: Now it's up to you to make that decision. And
Speaker 1: I decided, you know, at that time, I said, well,
Speaker 1: you know, let's go ahead. Let's go ahead. If we
Speaker 1: rather we use it up or not, you know, let's
Speaker 1: go forward. And they sent it out to a guy
Speaker 1: named doctor Edward Blake, and Dr Edward Blake tested it
Speaker 1: and he came back with the results. And I can't
Speaker 1: really see how you know the numbers, but I know
Speaker 1: are proven beyond any reasonable doubt that there was no
Speaker 1: way through DNA technology that I could have could have
Speaker 1: committed the crime. And that was in November of nineteen
Speaker 1: and it still wasn't until nineteen nine before I was actually,
Speaker 1: uh was able to walk out of prison. So let's
Speaker 1: talk about that. June was your exoneration date. And what
Speaker 1: was the scene in the courtroom. Let's do this again, right,
Speaker 1: so this is your backing court. Um, was it the
Speaker 1: same court where you were convicted? It wasn't the exact
Speaker 1: same courtroom, but it was still it with Clayton County,
Speaker 1: with Clayton County. Well, I can remember before I, before
Speaker 1: I even walked into the courtroom, Peter Newfield was there
Speaker 1: and he was my my attorney that day. And Peter
Speaker 1: walked up to me and said, uh, Calvin, Uh, there's
Speaker 1: gonna be some some some news people. It shouldn't be
Speaker 1: that bad, but there are gonna be some cameras and
Speaker 1: so forth that maybe uh waiting on you. And he
Speaker 1: asked me, He looked at me, he said, Calvina, what
Speaker 1: are you plan to say I have a way of
Speaker 1: answering questions that I just looked at him and said, Peter,
Speaker 1: don't worry, I'm not gonna embarrass you, and just kind
Speaker 1: of laughed. And then we went into the courtroom and
Speaker 1: I remember my family was there. My mother couldn't be
Speaker 1: there because she was a bedridden at the time. Uh
Speaker 1: so she was in the medical facility, but so she
Speaker 1: couldn't be there, but my father was there, my sisters
Speaker 1: were there. I remember the judge going through the proceedings
Speaker 1: and I remember him saying, well, Mr Johnson, you're free.
Speaker 1: I remember the prosecutor he walked over to me and
Speaker 1: he he never did an apologize or anything. It just
Speaker 1: kind of reached out and I did shake his hand.
Speaker 1: People wondered would I even shake his hand, but yes,
Speaker 1: I shook his hand. I shook his hand and he
Speaker 1: said something like, well, uh, I wish you the best.
Speaker 1: But you know, at the time, we felt like we
Speaker 1: were doing what was right, so, you know, and I
Speaker 1: kind of I didn't say anything, and so we walked
Speaker 1: on out and all these cameras were there, and so
Speaker 1: it was a good feeling. I walked out and you
Speaker 1: know this the sunshine it was. It was another beautiful
Speaker 1: day and all I want to do is go see
Speaker 1: my mom. And I went to see my mom and
Speaker 1: she was bed rim She had a trickia in her throat,
Speaker 1: so she couldn't couldn't hardly talk. But I saw when
Speaker 1: she saw me a tear, a tear ran down her face.
Speaker 1: And I told her that was a tear jaw. And
Speaker 1: that was the most special moment of me being released.
Speaker 1: But when I walked into that room to see a
Speaker 1: beautiful moment, like you said, and um, and and it's
Speaker 1: so great that she lived to see it, you know. Uh,
Speaker 1: that's that's a silver lining in this dark cloud. Um.
Speaker 1: And so one of the silver lines in this dark cloud.
Speaker 1: And now Calvin, let's see it's now here. We are
Speaker 1: two thousand and eighteen. So you've been out for nineteen
Speaker 1: years now, Um, and tell us what your life is like.
Speaker 1: I know you went to work for the transportation authority
Speaker 1: down there in Martha. Um wrote a book. Wow. Well,
Speaker 1: first of all, when I got out of nineteen nine
Speaker 1: and that I got involved with a company called tech Rail,
Speaker 1: which was a Christian company, and then actually I went
Speaker 1: out a missionary trip with them to Uganda, Africa, and
Speaker 1: that was amazing. Uh. It was a very humbling experience
Speaker 1: because it's a very it's a third world country and
Speaker 1: people are very poor over there. But we went over
Speaker 1: there and we actually went into the bush area. We
Speaker 1: went to Kapala University and they made me the main speaker.
Speaker 1: And I was shocked because we had other ministers with
Speaker 1: us who had churches, but yet they made me the
Speaker 1: main speaker. I couldn't believe it, but I shared my story.
Speaker 1: It was very well received, and it was a very humbling,
Speaker 1: humbling experience. And I remember my dad making jokes like saying, hey,
Speaker 1: you know, you're just as you're two minutes of fame.
Speaker 1: It say it's not gonna last, but it just it
Speaker 1: kept going on and kept going on. And I remember
Speaker 1: being um, different shows, different uh Today, uh, Good Morning America,
Speaker 1: The Today's Show and uh BT with Tavinth Smaley and
Speaker 1: here I am traveling around and was speaking and I'm sharing.
Speaker 1: And then I remember a couple of years ago went
Speaker 1: by and they formed the board of directors for the
Speaker 1: Innocent Project in New York, and they actually asked me
Speaker 1: what I like to sit on the board of directors,
Speaker 1: and I was shocked. I mean it was I was
Speaker 1: so honored to be asked. I was the first of
Speaker 1: honoree in the in the country to sit on the
Speaker 1: board like that on Innocent Project. Well, I mean this
Speaker 1: is this was it was. It was amazing to me, uh,
Speaker 1: just to be able to sit there and to share
Speaker 1: and to give my my my input. You know. Sometimes
Speaker 1: I actually sometimes I felt overwhelmed being around such powerful people,
Speaker 1: and I remember I was being so thankful. I remember
Speaker 1: sometime driving down the street and just looking at my
Speaker 1: house and and almost crying. You know, I didn't cry,
Speaker 1: but I would feel like crying because I was just
Speaker 1: so thankful that that people that I didn't even know
Speaker 1: reached out to to try to help me. The volunteers,
Speaker 1: the supporters, the havel the attorneys, uh, people that I
Speaker 1: look now as as being great people in my eyes,
Speaker 1: who are not just great people, but they're my friends.
Speaker 1: I look at Barryscheck and Peter Newfield and Maddie Delone
Speaker 1: and and the Jason Flams of the world as great
Speaker 1: people that have made a difference, They have changed lives,
Speaker 1: that are making difference into this judicial system that we
Speaker 1: have in this country that's not perfect it's a great country,
Speaker 1: but the system has some flaws because anything that man
Speaker 1: made may not be perfect. And so my life went on.
Speaker 1: My life went on. I've been married twice. Uh, my
Speaker 1: first marriage I end up getting a divorce and my
Speaker 1: second marriage. Believe it or not, I'm actually going through
Speaker 1: a divorce. But hey, I'm free. I'm free. I've been
Speaker 1: at my job now at the transportation agency with with
Speaker 1: Martin Metro Partner Atlanta Repertransit Authorities for nineteen years. I
Speaker 1: could probably retire in another year if I want to,
Speaker 1: and I still do a little a few speaking engagement.
Speaker 1: I still travel here and there and share my story.
Speaker 1: As you said, I did write a book called Exit
Speaker 1: the Freedom, what I tell people is not just a
Speaker 1: physical but it's a spiritual exit also, And so my
Speaker 1: freedom came either. Actually before I walked through those doors,
Speaker 1: I felt free on the inside and that a lot.
Speaker 1: And that's why I was able to forgive and let
Speaker 1: go and move on with my life, which was one
Speaker 1: of the most important things that I could do, was
Speaker 1: take control by forgiving and letting go through the power
Speaker 1: of God and saying thank you, thank you for for
Speaker 1: this opportunity to the people that that touched my life
Speaker 1: and made it possible. And here I am now. I live,
Speaker 1: I have a nice home, Jason. You know, I got
Speaker 1: three dogs. Uh, my daughter lives with me, and I
Speaker 1: got a sports car. I don't I don't write motorcycles anymore.
Speaker 1: I wrote motorcycles for years. I love motorcycles, but I
Speaker 1: actually gave it up this year in January. And that's
Speaker 1: that's this is my life. I very very very amazing.
Speaker 1: I mean it's beautiful. Uh it's a beautiful ending. Um,
Speaker 1: it's not an ending, but it's a beautiful phase that
Speaker 1: you're in. I guess you could say, with the with
Speaker 1: the three dogs and the daughter and the and you.
Speaker 1: And it's like, uh, it really does put a smile
Speaker 1: on my face thinking about how how you've been able
Speaker 1: to you know, persevere and and overcome and and really
Speaker 1: triumph and build this wonderful life for yourself. Um. Before
Speaker 1: we wrap up, Calvin, I'm actually remembering, Uh, you and
Speaker 1: I shared the stage one time at it and it's
Speaker 1: this project event and this was right after you had
Speaker 1: gone to Aspen, Colorado and you told the story. Do
Speaker 1: you remember that story? Oh? Which one? The one when uh,
Speaker 1: when you went skiing, and and yeah, if you can remember,
Speaker 1: I really yeah, I love to tell that story because
Speaker 1: that that, you know, that was one of the highlights
Speaker 1: since I've been free. That was one of the highlights.
Speaker 1: Is that is at the top, I mean next to
Speaker 1: you know, my daughter in barn and these events like that,
Speaker 1: which are very special because uh, you know, but this this,
Speaker 1: this was I remember I had to speaking engagement and
Speaker 1: asked in Colorado, okay, never been an aspend, never been
Speaker 1: in Colorado, never been skinned before in my life. And
Speaker 1: I'm just I'm just planning to go there for a
Speaker 1: couple of days. I remember you and I we we
Speaker 1: spoke and you said, you said, Calvin, you can't go
Speaker 1: to Aspen just for a couple of days and not ski.
Speaker 1: You know, hold up, let me let me, let me,
Speaker 1: let me take care of something. Let me make a
Speaker 1: phone call. Next thing I know, you called me back
Speaker 1: and you said, hey, you know, Calvin, you know you're
Speaker 1: gonna stay there for for almost a week, you know,
Speaker 1: some more, a couple of extra days, and I'm gonna
Speaker 1: have somebody who's gonna get in touch with you, and
Speaker 1: you're gonna go skin. And sure enough, I went out
Speaker 1: there and a guy came and he introduced himself and said,
Speaker 1: I'm here. I'll behalf of Jason Flower. He took me
Speaker 1: uh and brought me some ski gear and so forth,
Speaker 1: and then we went to the skin and I had
Speaker 1: a private instructor, and I remember with the private instructor,
Speaker 1: he uh, he kept taking me back and forth on
Speaker 1: the baby slope because this is my first time every
Speaker 1: skin in my life. But I'm loving it. And so
Speaker 1: the second day I went skinning, I'm begging this guy
Speaker 1: to take me to the top of the mountain. But
Speaker 1: he's you know, he's like, man, this is just your
Speaker 1: second day skin and I'm not gonna take you to
Speaker 1: the top of the mountain. I said, you got to
Speaker 1: take me to the top of the mountain. I said,
Speaker 1: I don't know if I ever do this again in
Speaker 1: my life. I said, this is this. I want to
Speaker 1: go to the top of the mountain. And at that time,
Speaker 1: I used to write sport bikes and I had sport
Speaker 1: bikes they should go zero to sixty and two seconds.
Speaker 1: And so I'm telling this guy, said, hey, hey, man,
Speaker 1: I ride a motorcycle. Go zero to sixty and two seconds. Now.
Speaker 1: If I can do that, you can take me to
Speaker 1: the top of the mountain. And so I went to
Speaker 1: the top of the mountain and I started coming down.
Speaker 1: And when I first took off, I hit one of them.
Speaker 1: I guess I was on one of the slopes. I
Speaker 1: guess it wanted the higher degrees, and I fell, but
Speaker 1: I got right back up, and then I said, Okay,
Speaker 1: I got it. This time. I gotta keep zig zagging
Speaker 1: to slow myself down. And so I got up and
Speaker 1: I kept zig zagging back and forth going down the slope.
Speaker 1: And then when I got to the point where I
Speaker 1: could see the bottom, I turned straight and I just
Speaker 1: started flying. And then I could hear the guy destructed
Speaker 1: behind me, hollering, you behind me, holler slow down, Slow down,
Speaker 1: slow down. Now I'm just flying down the slope, having
Speaker 1: a great day. I got the biggest smile on my
Speaker 1: face from ear to ear. And I get to the
Speaker 1: bottom and I don't fall. I spent sideways and I stopped.
Speaker 1: You know, he's behind me, just shaking his head. And
Speaker 1: I never forget that. I'm so thankful to you, Jason,
Speaker 1: for giving me the opportunity to go skin I have
Speaker 1: been skinning since, but that one time never funny. I
Speaker 1: actually remember, if I remember correctly, it was a long
Speaker 1: time ago. I remember when you gave that speech and
Speaker 1: you said you said, he said, he says I'm not
Speaker 1: taking to talk about and you said to him, it's
Speaker 1: slightly different than what you just told me now, But
Speaker 1: I don't know which version is correct. But you said
Speaker 1: I survived sixteen years and the maxter Security prison take
Speaker 1: me to the top of the mountain. And I was like, oh, man, yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: I did. I said that too. So that's that's a
Speaker 1: great story, and I'm glad it just came back to me.
Speaker 1: It must have been fifteen years ago when I heard
Speaker 1: you tell that story. But um, Calvin, we have a
Speaker 1: tradition at at Wrong for Conviction, which our listeners are
Speaker 1: are very familiar with by now. I think it's a
Speaker 1: lot of people's favorite part of the show. I know
Speaker 1: it's my favorite part of the show. And that's a
Speaker 1: part of the show where I stopped talking. And as
Speaker 1: we wrap up, and before I thank you one final
Speaker 1: time for being here, I just want to leave the
Speaker 1: mic on and ask you if you have any final
Speaker 1: thoughts that you want to share with our audience. It's
Speaker 1: all yours. First of all, I just like to say
Speaker 1: that I'm very thankful. I'd like to thank my mother
Speaker 1: and my father who no longer here. My father passed
Speaker 1: away in June this year, and that was a little
Speaker 1: bit rough because I got to spend a lot of
Speaker 1: time with him. I mean, are very we we were
Speaker 1: very close, and my mother and I we were close.
Speaker 1: She passed away back in two thousand. But they instilled
Speaker 1: in me a strength, uh. And he should always say,
Speaker 1: you're from good stock. You're from good stock. And they
Speaker 1: gave me that inner strength. And that's what helped me
Speaker 1: when I was in prison. Despite everything, I will not
Speaker 1: let prison break me. In prison with design is designed
Speaker 1: to tear you down, destroy you, and break you into
Speaker 1: what they want you to be. And I wouldn't let
Speaker 1: them do it. I never allowed them to break me. Uh.
Speaker 1: I stayed positive. There were times when it was a
Speaker 1: little bit rough, but all in all, you know, I
Speaker 1: believe that one day that even with the flicker of
Speaker 1: hope was just about to go out, that Canada was
Speaker 1: about to be distinguished. I still had that flicker of
Speaker 1: hope that one day that I would walk out of
Speaker 1: free man. And I actually said that on the day
Speaker 1: of my sentences that I believe that the truth will
Speaker 1: come out one day. I can say thank you all
Speaker 1: day long. Called there's so much to think. And those
Speaker 1: who I haven't even mentioned by name, I'm thankful to
Speaker 1: them because, Uh, there's volunteers that I don't know, the
Speaker 1: supporters that I don't know. There's some staff members that
Speaker 1: I don't know, uh, up at the Innocence Project. But
Speaker 1: the project has grown so much. It was so small
Speaker 1: when I first got out. Now it's a it's a
Speaker 1: it's a natural has a national network, has projects all
Speaker 1: across the world, and it's it's it's really unbelievable. I
Speaker 1: got a chance this year to go to the to
Speaker 1: the network conference and to see how it has grown
Speaker 1: and to see that there are people there from from
Speaker 1: different countries, and it was I'm just I'm glad to
Speaker 1: be a part of this. This this this amazing movement
Speaker 1: that's making a difference and changing laws and not only
Speaker 1: changing laws, but helping people to get the life that
Speaker 1: started all over again. And that's basically you know, all
Speaker 1: that I can say right now is thank you. I
Speaker 1: want to thank you for being so to great advocate
Speaker 1: and just such a great example of human potential and
Speaker 1: the work that we do is you know, because of
Speaker 1: people like you. UM, and UH, you know we'll never stop. Uh.
Speaker 1: We're gonna keep fighting and fighting and fighting until there's
Speaker 1: no more fighting left to be done. UM. And so again, Calvin,
Speaker 1: I just want to thank you for sharing your story
Speaker 1: here on Wrongful Conviction. UM. I wish you all the best.
Speaker 1: I want to thank uh in addition to your ski instructor,
Speaker 1: the one that's the two day ski instructor, Chuck Kessler,
Speaker 1: for keeping you alive in spite of the fact that
Speaker 1: you've made it difficult for him. And yeah, and and anything.
Speaker 1: The last question I want to ask you is if
Speaker 1: people want to book you for speaking, UM, are you
Speaker 1: still doing that? Would you like to share an email
Speaker 1: address or a website or anything like that. Yes, that's
Speaker 1: my email addresses e x I t oh f R
Speaker 1: e e x oh free, e x I t O
Speaker 1: f R at yahoo dot com. Uh, feel free to
Speaker 1: email me anytime I'm still doing speaking engagements. And yes
Speaker 1: I'm available UM off days on Wednesday, Thursday and Friday.
Speaker 1: I do work. I do have a job, but I
Speaker 1: usually can fit it in something. So email Calvin for
Speaker 1: bookings or for advice on fishing or anything else you
Speaker 1: can think of. Maybe he'll even give you a ski lesson. Um. Calvin,
Speaker 1: thank you again for being here. I I look forward
Speaker 1: to seeing you again soon. And to our audience, thank
Speaker 1: you read this book to extit to Freedom. Calvin Johnson,
Speaker 1: excit to Freedom. Don't forget to order that um and uh,
Speaker 1: I'm gonna order one myself today too. So UM. Once again,
Speaker 1: thank you to everyone for tuning in. It's just been
Speaker 1: a very special episode with my friend and ex honoree
Speaker 1: Calvin Johnson. Thank you, Jason, don't forget to give us
Speaker 1: a fantastic review. Wherever you get your podcasts, it really helps.
Speaker 1: And I'm a proud donor to the Innocence Project and
Speaker 1: I really hope you'll join me in supporting this very
Speaker 1: important cause and helping to prevent future wrongful convictions. Go
Speaker 1: to Innocence Project dot org to learn how to donate
Speaker 1: and get involved. I'd like to thank our production team,
Speaker 1: Connor Hall and Kevin Wardis. The music on the show
Speaker 1: is by three time OSCAR nominated composer Jay Ralph. Be
Speaker 1: sure to follow us on Instagram at Wrongful Conviction and
Speaker 1: on Facebook at Wrongful conviction podcast Wrongful Conviction with Jason
Speaker 1: Flam is a production of Lava for Good Podcasts and
Speaker 1: association with Signal Company Number one