1
00:00:02,120 --> 00:00:03,680
Speaker 1: I've never been in trouble in my life. I didn't

2
00:00:03,720 --> 00:00:05,360
Speaker 1: even have a parking ticket, you know what I mean.

3
00:00:05,640 --> 00:00:08,960
Speaker 1: I was brought up with cops are the good guys.

4
00:00:09,840 --> 00:00:11,640
Speaker 2: I didn't know what was going to happen, but I

5
00:00:11,760 --> 00:00:14,760
Speaker 2: do know that everything was stacked against me.

6
00:00:14,920 --> 00:00:17,320
Speaker 1: Everything like everything.

7
00:00:17,480 --> 00:00:22,360
Speaker 3: This isn't supposed to happen this way. I'm innocent. I

8
00:00:22,440 --> 00:00:24,479
Speaker 3: know I'm innocent. I know I had nothing to do

9
00:00:24,560 --> 00:00:27,240
Speaker 3: with this. How is this possible?

10
00:00:28,240 --> 00:00:30,680
Speaker 4: I grew up trusting systems. I've grew up believing that

11
00:00:31,240 --> 00:00:34,280
Speaker 4: every human being should do the right thing. And that's why,

12
00:00:34,360 --> 00:00:36,200
Speaker 4: even though I knew I was dealing with four other people,

13
00:00:36,280 --> 00:00:38,360
Speaker 4: I wasn't going to break anyone to get me out

14
00:00:38,360 --> 00:00:41,080
Speaker 4: of prison because I wouldn't live with the fact that

15
00:00:41,120 --> 00:00:42,840
Speaker 4: I break my way out of my wife's death.

16
00:00:44,360 --> 00:00:47,479
Speaker 1: I'm not innocent, too proven guilty. I'm guilty until I

17
00:00:47,560 --> 00:00:50,120
Speaker 1: prove my innocence. And that's absolutely what happened to me.

18
00:00:51,240 --> 00:00:53,239
Speaker 1: Our system. Since I've been out ten years, it has

19
00:00:53,280 --> 00:00:55,480
Speaker 1: come a little ways, but it's still broken.

20
00:00:56,800 --> 00:00:59,520
Speaker 4: I totally lost trusting humanity after what's happened to me.

21
00:01:02,800 --> 00:01:19,120
Speaker 5: This is wrongful conviction. Welcome back to wrongful Conviction with

22
00:01:19,240 --> 00:01:22,959
Speaker 5: Jason Flohm. Today, I have a very special guest, my

23
00:01:23,160 --> 00:01:26,800
Speaker 5: friend and my colleague on the board of the Innocence

24
00:01:26,840 --> 00:01:30,280
Speaker 5: Project for a long time, Calvin Johnson. Calvin, welcome to

25
00:01:30,480 --> 00:01:31,119
Speaker 5: the podcast.

26
00:01:32,120 --> 00:01:33,120
Speaker 1: Oh, thank you for having me.

27
00:01:33,200 --> 00:01:36,560
Speaker 5: Jason Calvin, you are an extraordinary I don't embarrass you,

28
00:01:36,600 --> 00:01:42,200
Speaker 5: but you are an extraordinary person. Your spirit really lights

29
00:01:42,240 --> 00:01:44,160
Speaker 5: up every room that you walk into. And I've seen

30
00:01:44,200 --> 00:01:46,000
Speaker 5: you walk into a lot of rooms, so I know this.

31
00:01:46,440 --> 00:01:51,320
Speaker 5: But your story is insane in many ways, but also

32
00:01:51,440 --> 00:01:55,720
Speaker 5: typical in certain ways of wrongful convictions. And I want

33
00:01:55,760 --> 00:01:58,240
Speaker 5: to get right into that and I'll explain what I

34
00:01:58,280 --> 00:02:01,160
Speaker 5: mean as we go along. But this goes back to

35
00:02:01,560 --> 00:02:04,640
Speaker 5: nineteen eighty three, but I want to go back even

36
00:02:04,680 --> 00:02:07,640
Speaker 5: a little further than that, because you grew up in

37
00:02:07,680 --> 00:02:10,960
Speaker 5: a very nice environment, good family. I mean, can you

38
00:02:10,960 --> 00:02:13,320
Speaker 5: explain what your childhood was like.

39
00:02:14,880 --> 00:02:18,600
Speaker 2: I really had a really great childhood. I was brought

40
00:02:18,680 --> 00:02:21,400
Speaker 2: up in a middle class setting. My father was a

41
00:02:21,480 --> 00:02:26,520
Speaker 2: lawyer and my mother, she worked at a college as

42
00:02:26,560 --> 00:02:31,600
Speaker 2: an administrative assistant. My father later became a senator, the

43
00:02:31,639 --> 00:02:36,120
Speaker 2: first black state senator in Hamilton County in Ohio. So

44
00:02:36,160 --> 00:02:38,640
Speaker 2: I really was brought up in a very nice setting.

45
00:02:38,720 --> 00:02:41,440
Speaker 2: I remember living in a nice home, having my own room,

46
00:02:41,960 --> 00:02:46,239
Speaker 2: even had a game room with slock car racing sets,

47
00:02:46,320 --> 00:02:50,680
Speaker 2: train sets. It was just a very, very very nice environment.

48
00:02:51,040 --> 00:02:53,840
Speaker 2: I also kind of say, when I look back at it,

49
00:02:53,960 --> 00:02:57,120
Speaker 2: I felt kind of protected because I wasn't exposed to

50
00:02:57,200 --> 00:03:00,520
Speaker 2: a lot of negative things. Are a lot of bad

51
00:03:00,560 --> 00:03:03,280
Speaker 2: things in the world. So I can remember days like

52
00:03:03,400 --> 00:03:05,680
Speaker 2: when the first time I saw when Martin Luther King

53
00:03:05,720 --> 00:03:08,840
Speaker 2: got assassinated and I saw my mother crying in front

54
00:03:08,840 --> 00:03:11,400
Speaker 2: of the TV. It had a profound effect on me

55
00:03:11,560 --> 00:03:14,320
Speaker 2: because I was like, well, what's going on? I saw

56
00:03:14,400 --> 00:03:19,120
Speaker 2: people riding riding and people protesting, and it's kind of

57
00:03:19,160 --> 00:03:21,280
Speaker 2: just opened up my eyes to a lot of things.

58
00:03:21,360 --> 00:03:24,280
Speaker 2: I said, Wow, look, look what's going on in the world.

59
00:03:24,320 --> 00:03:27,240
Speaker 2: It's things out there that I hadn't even been aware of,

60
00:03:27,880 --> 00:03:30,600
Speaker 2: and it really, really I started looking at the world

61
00:03:30,600 --> 00:03:31,280
Speaker 2: a little bit different.

62
00:03:31,320 --> 00:03:35,120
Speaker 5: Now. None of this would have prepared you for what

63
00:03:35,280 --> 00:03:39,880
Speaker 5: was about to happen on that faithful day in nineteen

64
00:03:39,920 --> 00:03:43,920
Speaker 5: eighty three when your life literally went from being I

65
00:03:43,960 --> 00:03:47,160
Speaker 5: want to say a dream, but like your whole future

66
00:03:47,280 --> 00:03:50,080
Speaker 5: was in front of you and everything was looking good.

67
00:03:50,080 --> 00:03:52,280
Speaker 5: You're a smart guy. You came from a great family,

68
00:03:52,360 --> 00:03:55,360
Speaker 5: you had good upbringing, you had every opportunity to be

69
00:03:55,360 --> 00:03:58,200
Speaker 5: successful in the world, and then all of a sudden,

70
00:03:59,120 --> 00:04:02,560
Speaker 5: you get arrested and charged with a crime that you

71
00:04:02,640 --> 00:04:04,600
Speaker 5: had no knowledge of it nothing to do with, and

72
00:04:04,600 --> 00:04:07,520
Speaker 5: then ultimately charged with another crime. I mean, this is

73
00:04:07,560 --> 00:04:12,320
Speaker 5: a crazy story because there were two separate incidents, one

74
00:04:12,320 --> 00:04:14,200
Speaker 5: of which was used against you in the trial for

75
00:04:14,280 --> 00:04:16,559
Speaker 5: the other one, and then later on when the charges

76
00:04:16,600 --> 00:04:18,159
Speaker 5: were dropped for that one, it was too late because

77
00:04:18,160 --> 00:04:22,680
Speaker 5: you were I mean, it's really a nutty and terrifying scenario.

78
00:04:22,920 --> 00:04:26,760
Speaker 5: What happened to you? And can you explain the circumstances

79
00:04:26,760 --> 00:04:29,120
Speaker 5: of how this happened in the first place, and why

80
00:04:29,160 --> 00:04:32,359
Speaker 5: did they focus on you, and how could they have

81
00:04:32,360 --> 00:04:33,200
Speaker 5: gotten this so wrong?

82
00:04:34,880 --> 00:04:37,280
Speaker 2: Like you said, it is a little crazy, Jason, it

83
00:04:37,320 --> 00:04:40,440
Speaker 2: really is. I'm to just go back just a little

84
00:04:40,480 --> 00:04:44,440
Speaker 2: bit further in my upbringing, because I remember when my

85
00:04:44,520 --> 00:04:47,840
Speaker 2: family moved to Atlanta, Georgia, and we moved into this

86
00:04:48,720 --> 00:04:53,200
Speaker 2: really nice neighborhood where there were professional football players and

87
00:04:53,440 --> 00:04:56,880
Speaker 2: doctors and lawyers and people in the political field. And

88
00:04:57,360 --> 00:05:00,560
Speaker 2: I'm riding around on mini bikes and motorcycles, was growing

89
00:05:00,640 --> 00:05:04,240
Speaker 2: up and just living a great life, and it was

90
00:05:04,279 --> 00:05:08,080
Speaker 2: it was considered the upper echelon of Atlanta for blacks

91
00:05:08,120 --> 00:05:12,520
Speaker 2: at that time. And I went to college, and once

92
00:05:12,560 --> 00:05:14,640
Speaker 2: I graduate from high school, I went to college with

93
00:05:14,800 --> 00:05:16,960
Speaker 2: as you said, I went to college. I was at

94
00:05:17,000 --> 00:05:21,600
Speaker 2: Clark College in Atlanta, Georgia and getting my education and

95
00:05:21,640 --> 00:05:25,080
Speaker 2: I graduated with a bachelors's Arts and Mass Communications. And

96
00:05:25,120 --> 00:05:28,800
Speaker 2: you would never imagine anything like this happening to me.

97
00:05:29,440 --> 00:05:32,440
Speaker 2: But then I had a little bit of a wild streak.

98
00:05:33,000 --> 00:05:36,560
Speaker 2: Like most kids, I was adventurous. I didn't just always

99
00:05:36,560 --> 00:05:39,920
Speaker 2: stay on the upper echelon side with the good kids.

100
00:05:40,200 --> 00:05:43,600
Speaker 2: I had the tendency to go over into the to

101
00:05:44,200 --> 00:05:46,520
Speaker 2: the lower neighborhoods. I wouldn't say, I don't like to

102
00:05:46,560 --> 00:05:50,600
Speaker 2: say lower, but I would say economically not as successful

103
00:05:50,640 --> 00:05:53,240
Speaker 2: as we were. And when I used to go over there,

104
00:05:53,400 --> 00:05:56,200
Speaker 2: I just hang out with those guys. And I was

105
00:05:56,240 --> 00:05:58,000
Speaker 2: doing a few things things that I shouldn't have had

106
00:05:58,080 --> 00:06:00,960
Speaker 2: no business doing, I have to be honest about it. Drinking,

107
00:06:01,200 --> 00:06:06,039
Speaker 2: smoking marijuana, having fun, partying, chasing the girls, and I

108
00:06:06,160 --> 00:06:09,279
Speaker 2: just got involved into things that had no business being

109
00:06:09,279 --> 00:06:12,800
Speaker 2: involved with. I knew people that would buy hot items,

110
00:06:12,839 --> 00:06:16,040
Speaker 2: and I knew people that were committing crimes, and I

111
00:06:16,080 --> 00:06:17,839
Speaker 2: got mixed up with some of the wrong people and

112
00:06:18,040 --> 00:06:21,120
Speaker 2: I actually did somebody had no business doing. That started

113
00:06:21,640 --> 00:06:24,240
Speaker 2: the ball to rolling. I put myself in that position

114
00:06:24,320 --> 00:06:29,360
Speaker 2: in the beginning. I did commit a burglary to I'm

115
00:06:29,400 --> 00:06:32,600
Speaker 2: gonna tell you what led up to that. I had

116
00:06:32,640 --> 00:06:35,200
Speaker 2: brought some marijuana one day and at time when I

117
00:06:35,279 --> 00:06:39,240
Speaker 2: was buying the marijuana, the police actually pulled up and

118
00:06:39,400 --> 00:06:44,720
Speaker 2: arrested me and charged me with the marijuana. Having that case,

119
00:06:44,760 --> 00:06:47,360
Speaker 2: I went to see a lawyer, and the lawyer was

120
00:06:47,520 --> 00:06:50,680
Speaker 2: pretty expensive and I didn't have the money. So my

121
00:06:51,320 --> 00:06:53,960
Speaker 2: friends on the other side of the track said, wait, man,

122
00:06:54,520 --> 00:06:56,720
Speaker 2: we can get you some money. Just go ahead and

123
00:06:56,880 --> 00:06:58,640
Speaker 2: if you bring us a few hot items and we

124
00:06:58,680 --> 00:07:00,240
Speaker 2: will take care of it and you can get you

125
00:07:00,240 --> 00:07:03,120
Speaker 2: a lawyer. So I went across to What I did

126
00:07:03,240 --> 00:07:06,920
Speaker 2: was I committed a burglary and got caught, and that's

127
00:07:06,960 --> 00:07:10,640
Speaker 2: what really started everything I was. I pleaded guilty to

128
00:07:10,720 --> 00:07:14,760
Speaker 2: that because I was guilty. You know, I a set

129
00:07:14,800 --> 00:07:18,280
Speaker 2: responsibility for anything that I've done. But if there's something

130
00:07:18,320 --> 00:07:20,120
Speaker 2: that you say that I did that I didn't do,

131
00:07:20,640 --> 00:07:22,160
Speaker 2: then we got a battle.

132
00:07:21,880 --> 00:07:22,280
Speaker 1: On our held.

133
00:07:22,360 --> 00:07:26,520
Speaker 5: So that's that's what put you in the crosshairs of

134
00:07:26,840 --> 00:07:30,640
Speaker 5: the authorities. Right, So when this, you know, when they

135
00:07:30,680 --> 00:07:34,480
Speaker 5: had this terrible incident where this woman had her house

136
00:07:34,520 --> 00:07:37,080
Speaker 5: broken into. It was in College Park, I think, right, Georgia,

137
00:07:37,800 --> 00:07:41,080
Speaker 5: and a woman's house was broken into and she was

138
00:07:41,720 --> 00:07:43,760
Speaker 5: tied up with a belt or strangled with a belt,

139
00:07:43,800 --> 00:07:46,560
Speaker 5: and then I mean, it's a terrible, terrible crime, and

140
00:07:46,640 --> 00:07:51,240
Speaker 5: she was raped and robbed and the whole thing. And

141
00:07:51,280 --> 00:07:54,880
Speaker 5: then how did it end up where they came to

142
00:07:55,000 --> 00:07:57,680
Speaker 5: arrest you? What made them suspect that you were the

143
00:07:57,680 --> 00:07:59,920
Speaker 5: guy that did this? Ultimately was proven that you didn't.

144
00:08:00,520 --> 00:08:02,800
Speaker 5: But how did that? I mean, can you explain that

145
00:08:02,960 --> 00:08:05,640
Speaker 5: whole scenario, because that's where this thing goes really off

146
00:08:05,680 --> 00:08:06,200
Speaker 5: the tracks.

147
00:08:07,600 --> 00:08:10,800
Speaker 2: Okay, I'm explaining as best I can. At the time,

148
00:08:10,840 --> 00:08:14,640
Speaker 2: when I got arrested for the burglary, that's basically all

149
00:08:14,680 --> 00:08:19,480
Speaker 2: that I was guilty of. They had some other crimes

150
00:08:19,480 --> 00:08:22,480
Speaker 2: that happened, a rape or two that happened in the

151
00:08:22,560 --> 00:08:26,320
Speaker 2: area of the burglary, and so they decided that they

152
00:08:26,320 --> 00:08:28,280
Speaker 2: were going to clear the record books and charge me

153
00:08:28,400 --> 00:08:33,120
Speaker 2: with those rapes. And this was back in nineteen eighty one,

154
00:08:33,880 --> 00:08:36,559
Speaker 2: and we were getting ready to go to trial and everything,

155
00:08:36,600 --> 00:08:39,120
Speaker 2: and the only thing that really cleared my name was

156
00:08:39,160 --> 00:08:42,960
Speaker 2: that the lady that was assaulted and rape in this

157
00:08:43,080 --> 00:08:47,560
Speaker 2: particular case, she was honest and I really appreciate her honesty.

158
00:08:47,960 --> 00:08:52,040
Speaker 2: She said that I'm positive that the person that raped

159
00:08:52,080 --> 00:08:56,880
Speaker 2: me was an uncircumcised individual, and I had been circumcised

160
00:08:56,920 --> 00:09:00,520
Speaker 2: since birth because I was born in Cincinnati, Ohio, in

161
00:09:00,600 --> 00:09:04,839
Speaker 2: the Jewish hospital and was circumcised since birth. And so

162
00:09:05,080 --> 00:09:09,320
Speaker 2: once that was brought out, they dropped the charges on

163
00:09:09,480 --> 00:09:12,880
Speaker 2: the rape, and basically I just went to prison for

164
00:09:13,720 --> 00:09:16,240
Speaker 2: burglary and I did about a year, maybe a year

165
00:09:16,280 --> 00:09:19,120
Speaker 2: and a half, got back out, started my life over,

166
00:09:20,440 --> 00:09:23,840
Speaker 2: trying to do the positive things and working out every day,

167
00:09:24,080 --> 00:09:26,760
Speaker 2: going to work every day. I was living in my parents'

168
00:09:26,760 --> 00:09:30,080
Speaker 2: house at the time, and shortly one day I was

169
00:09:30,120 --> 00:09:32,840
Speaker 2: coming home. I never forget that day. It was a beautiful,

170
00:09:32,880 --> 00:09:35,360
Speaker 2: beautiful day that day. It was a spring day, and

171
00:09:35,400 --> 00:09:38,480
Speaker 2: I was coming home and I felt a strange feeling.

172
00:09:38,520 --> 00:09:39,560
Speaker 1: Some just wasn't right.

173
00:09:40,200 --> 00:09:43,080
Speaker 2: And as I walked into the house, no sooner than

174
00:09:43,120 --> 00:09:44,720
Speaker 2: I walked into the house, there was that knock on

175
00:09:44,760 --> 00:09:47,160
Speaker 2: the door, like, don't doom.

176
00:09:47,360 --> 00:09:49,280
Speaker 1: I tell people that was the weight of the state.

177
00:09:49,800 --> 00:09:51,080
Speaker 1: They busted the door.

178
00:09:51,160 --> 00:09:55,000
Speaker 2: They put handcuffs on me, extremely tight, so tight that

179
00:09:55,040 --> 00:09:58,160
Speaker 2: I still got bruises on my wrists all these years later,

180
00:09:58,720 --> 00:10:00,600
Speaker 2: and they dragged me out and they charged me with

181
00:10:00,640 --> 00:10:03,319
Speaker 2: these rapes. And it was the same police officers they

182
00:10:03,360 --> 00:10:06,440
Speaker 2: had arrested me earlier, and so now they're charging me

183
00:10:06,480 --> 00:10:09,319
Speaker 2: with some more rapes, saying that you got to be guilty.

184
00:10:09,400 --> 00:10:12,800
Speaker 2: We feel you're guilty of this. But I, you know,

185
00:10:12,840 --> 00:10:16,520
Speaker 2: I was innocent. I had no connection with the victim

186
00:10:16,640 --> 00:10:19,800
Speaker 2: or anything. And I remember being in that cold, damp,

187
00:10:19,880 --> 00:10:23,760
Speaker 2: dark cell and just waiting to be to be clear. Now,

188
00:10:23,840 --> 00:10:26,040
Speaker 2: any day I thought that, okay, this is America.

189
00:10:26,600 --> 00:10:28,400
Speaker 1: You know. I brought up in America believing in.

190
00:10:28,400 --> 00:10:33,920
Speaker 2: The judicial system and injustice and justice for all, and

191
00:10:33,960 --> 00:10:36,560
Speaker 2: once that happened, I just I just never, ever, I

192
00:10:36,600 --> 00:10:38,640
Speaker 2: never believed that I would go to prison. I said,

193
00:10:38,640 --> 00:10:41,319
Speaker 2: any day they're going to walk in here and say, hey,

194
00:10:41,760 --> 00:10:43,120
Speaker 2: you're not guilty, You're free.

195
00:10:43,679 --> 00:10:44,319
Speaker 1: And this is.

196
00:10:44,280 --> 00:10:48,040
Speaker 2: Basically how it had all started. Those same police officers

197
00:10:48,080 --> 00:10:50,439
Speaker 2: that had previously arrested me a couple of years earlier,

198
00:10:50,840 --> 00:10:54,800
Speaker 2: rested me again in nineteen eighty three and decided that, Okay,

199
00:10:54,880 --> 00:10:57,480
Speaker 2: now we're going to make sure that we got this

200
00:10:57,559 --> 00:10:59,439
Speaker 2: guy this time. But they had the wrong guy.

201
00:10:59,480 --> 00:11:02,559
Speaker 5: I'm getting the very strong visual of you and knowing

202
00:11:02,600 --> 00:11:04,400
Speaker 5: you as I do, and every time I see you

203
00:11:04,440 --> 00:11:07,360
Speaker 5: wearing a suit and a big smile and everything else,

204
00:11:07,760 --> 00:11:10,360
Speaker 5: and now I'm picturing quite the opposite, right, I'm picturing

205
00:11:10,400 --> 00:11:13,000
Speaker 5: you in this, as you said, the cold, dark, damp cell,

206
00:11:14,040 --> 00:11:18,520
Speaker 5: and still thinking that the justice system is going to

207
00:11:18,559 --> 00:11:23,839
Speaker 5: be just, and that because you didn't do and had

208
00:11:23,880 --> 00:11:25,640
Speaker 5: no knowledge and weren't involved in any way any of

209
00:11:25,640 --> 00:11:28,280
Speaker 5: these in these particular crimes, that you were going to

210
00:11:28,320 --> 00:11:33,120
Speaker 5: be freed probably relatively shortly in this, but this proceeded

211
00:11:33,120 --> 00:11:38,280
Speaker 5: to trial in actually a shorter time than many of

212
00:11:38,280 --> 00:11:40,200
Speaker 5: the cases that we see here. It was about six

213
00:11:40,200 --> 00:11:42,840
Speaker 5: months right until you ended up actually on trial for

214
00:11:42,920 --> 00:11:44,240
Speaker 5: your life, literally for your life.

215
00:11:45,280 --> 00:11:46,480
Speaker 1: That's true, Jason.

216
00:11:47,920 --> 00:11:50,640
Speaker 2: I mean they put me into a live lineup before

217
00:11:50,640 --> 00:11:54,199
Speaker 2: I went to trial, and in that live lineup, they

218
00:11:54,720 --> 00:11:57,880
Speaker 2: actually were trying to select the person that committed the

219
00:11:57,920 --> 00:12:02,480
Speaker 2: crime and the individual Joel who I actually went to

220
00:12:02,520 --> 00:12:04,959
Speaker 2: prison for with a life sentence, the individual that actually

221
00:12:05,040 --> 00:12:09,320
Speaker 2: went to prison for picked out another person did not

222
00:12:09,400 --> 00:12:12,360
Speaker 2: pick out Calvin C. Johnson Jr. And all this was

223
00:12:12,400 --> 00:12:15,720
Speaker 2: brought out in a preliminary hearing where they were trying

224
00:12:15,760 --> 00:12:17,800
Speaker 2: to decide whether or not if they were going to

225
00:12:18,120 --> 00:12:20,920
Speaker 2: indict this case and carry it on over to have trial.

226
00:12:21,360 --> 00:12:24,520
Speaker 2: I remember during a preliminary hearing when it was brought

227
00:12:24,520 --> 00:12:28,200
Speaker 2: out that hey, this individual picked out somebody else. I'm

228
00:12:28,240 --> 00:12:31,679
Speaker 2: sitting there thinking like, wow, you know, am I gonna

229
00:12:31,679 --> 00:12:32,000
Speaker 2: go home?

230
00:12:32,080 --> 00:12:32,200
Speaker 1: Now?

231
00:12:32,240 --> 00:12:34,000
Speaker 2: Are they gonna go ahead and just drop the case.

232
00:12:34,600 --> 00:12:36,880
Speaker 2: And then there was some other facts brought out because

233
00:12:37,280 --> 00:12:40,840
Speaker 2: they asked this individual about her identification procedures how he

234
00:12:40,920 --> 00:12:45,320
Speaker 2: was identified, and apparently they said that I was supposed

235
00:12:45,360 --> 00:12:48,800
Speaker 2: to have been identified through a photographic from a photographic lineup

236
00:12:48,800 --> 00:12:53,120
Speaker 2: in the beginning, and in questioning this individual, they said, well,

237
00:12:53,160 --> 00:12:55,959
Speaker 2: what kind of photographs were they?

238
00:12:56,000 --> 00:12:58,400
Speaker 1: Color? Were they black and white?

239
00:12:58,520 --> 00:13:00,840
Speaker 2: And she was kind of shaking, like, you know, she

240
00:13:00,960 --> 00:13:04,360
Speaker 2: wasn't sure, and she actually said, well, I think they

241
00:13:04,360 --> 00:13:08,360
Speaker 2: were color. They were color pictures. So later on we

242
00:13:08,400 --> 00:13:11,400
Speaker 2: brought a police officer in who had been said questioned,

243
00:13:11,480 --> 00:13:13,560
Speaker 2: so he didn't hear what she said. And when he

244
00:13:13,640 --> 00:13:16,319
Speaker 2: came in, we asked him, do you have the pictures

245
00:13:16,320 --> 00:13:20,320
Speaker 2: with you today that Calvin Johnson was identified from? And

246
00:13:20,360 --> 00:13:22,760
Speaker 2: he said, yes, I do, and he showed them to

247
00:13:22,880 --> 00:13:25,600
Speaker 2: us and they were a serious of small black and

248
00:13:25,640 --> 00:13:29,360
Speaker 2: white pictures. And I'm sitting there in the courtroom, you know,

249
00:13:30,000 --> 00:13:32,640
Speaker 2: my eyes are wide, my head is shaking back and

250
00:13:32,679 --> 00:13:36,600
Speaker 2: forth because I'm in disbelief, and I'm saying, well, cat,

251
00:13:36,600 --> 00:13:39,480
Speaker 2: to just see that something is not right here. And

252
00:13:39,559 --> 00:13:43,240
Speaker 2: I kept believing that I would actually that at that moment,

253
00:13:43,280 --> 00:13:44,480
Speaker 2: and it meant minute.

254
00:13:44,320 --> 00:13:45,840
Speaker 1: He would say, Okay, you're free to go.

255
00:13:56,400 --> 00:13:59,760
Speaker 2: I remember going back to my cell and sitting in

256
00:13:59,760 --> 00:14:03,200
Speaker 2: there selling, you know, just wondering what's going on, what's

257
00:14:03,240 --> 00:14:05,559
Speaker 2: going on? And so one day they dragged me out

258
00:14:05,600 --> 00:14:07,960
Speaker 2: their cell, Jason. They just took me and they jack

259
00:14:08,040 --> 00:14:11,160
Speaker 2: dragged me out. They handcuffed me all around my waist

260
00:14:11,240 --> 00:14:13,960
Speaker 2: and around my ankles and took me to a local

261
00:14:14,000 --> 00:14:16,440
Speaker 2: hospital and set me in a room with the door

262
00:14:16,440 --> 00:14:19,320
Speaker 2: wide open, and then they made me strip down and

263
00:14:19,360 --> 00:14:21,640
Speaker 2: they just they didn't close the door. It was inhumane.

264
00:14:21,640 --> 00:14:24,840
Speaker 2: And they started plucking hairs from my body and taking

265
00:14:24,880 --> 00:14:30,600
Speaker 2: blood samples and for comparison purpose to see if anything

266
00:14:30,680 --> 00:14:33,400
Speaker 2: mashed up with the individual that committed the crime. And

267
00:14:33,480 --> 00:14:36,160
Speaker 2: as they did all this, Jason, I remember when they

268
00:14:36,200 --> 00:14:38,200
Speaker 2: came back and they said, well I got I got

269
00:14:38,240 --> 00:14:41,320
Speaker 2: good news and I got bad news. I said, well, well,

270
00:14:41,360 --> 00:14:43,600
Speaker 2: what's the good news and what's the bad news. Well,

271
00:14:43,600 --> 00:14:46,680
Speaker 2: the good news is that the hair samples came back

272
00:14:46,720 --> 00:14:50,680
Speaker 2: and they matched. They belonged to a person of African

273
00:14:50,680 --> 00:14:53,760
Speaker 2: American ancestry. But the hair sapple did not match you.

274
00:14:54,200 --> 00:14:57,360
Speaker 2: I said what, I said, Well, am I going home now?

275
00:14:57,880 --> 00:15:00,880
Speaker 2: And they said, well, no, that's the bad news. You know,

276
00:15:01,080 --> 00:15:03,800
Speaker 2: the blood sapple came back and it was all positive.

277
00:15:03,840 --> 00:15:06,320
Speaker 2: They didn't have DNA technology, they weren't using it in

278
00:15:06,360 --> 00:15:09,400
Speaker 2: the courts at that time, and said, oh positive, Well,

279
00:15:10,200 --> 00:15:14,120
Speaker 2: most of America. America is a positive. Majority of the

280
00:15:14,160 --> 00:15:18,800
Speaker 2: population is oh positive. And because I'm all positive, the

281
00:15:18,840 --> 00:15:21,880
Speaker 2: person that committed crime was OH positive, they decided, okay,

282
00:15:21,920 --> 00:15:23,760
Speaker 2: we're gonna go forth with the trial because he must

283
00:15:23,840 --> 00:15:26,720
Speaker 2: have committed the crime. I mean, it was really really crazy.

284
00:15:27,080 --> 00:15:30,760
Speaker 2: I mean even the jury selection was crazy. They it

285
00:15:30,840 --> 00:15:34,000
Speaker 2: was in the county that were predominantly white, Clayton County, Georgia,

286
00:15:34,720 --> 00:15:37,880
Speaker 2: and they had three or four blacks, which they systematically

287
00:15:37,920 --> 00:15:40,920
Speaker 2: struck from the jury and I ended up with all

288
00:15:40,960 --> 00:15:45,320
Speaker 2: white jury. The victim was white, and as we proceeded

289
00:15:45,360 --> 00:15:49,400
Speaker 2: to the trial portion, I'm sitting there facing the all

290
00:15:49,440 --> 00:15:52,280
Speaker 2: white jury with a victim that's white, that's crime, and

291
00:15:52,400 --> 00:15:55,160
Speaker 2: pointing the finger and saying, this black man raped her.

292
00:15:55,400 --> 00:15:57,680
Speaker 2: What chance do would I have? Jason? I mean, what chance?

293
00:15:57,880 --> 00:16:00,440
Speaker 2: In a situation like that, you have no chance forsoever.

294
00:16:00,880 --> 00:16:03,760
Speaker 2: And that's why I emphasized the fact of the fact

295
00:16:03,840 --> 00:16:06,320
Speaker 2: that you know, a jury needs to be culturally diverse,

296
00:16:06,920 --> 00:16:11,600
Speaker 2: different ethnic backgrounds, otherwise you don't stand much of a chance. Basically,

297
00:16:11,960 --> 00:16:14,520
Speaker 2: I was railroaded, and through the course of the trial

298
00:16:15,080 --> 00:16:17,080
Speaker 2: a lot, a lot of evidence was brought out in

299
00:16:17,160 --> 00:16:20,560
Speaker 2: my behalf. I had alibi testimony. I was at home

300
00:16:20,640 --> 00:16:23,920
Speaker 2: living with my parents. We had a dog, you know,

301
00:16:24,040 --> 00:16:26,120
Speaker 2: my dad. I didn't even have a car at the time,

302
00:16:26,520 --> 00:16:28,440
Speaker 2: and my dad, you know, was take would take me

303
00:16:28,480 --> 00:16:31,120
Speaker 2: to work in the morning time every day. And all

304
00:16:31,200 --> 00:16:32,800
Speaker 2: this was brought out. You know that you know that

305
00:16:32,800 --> 00:16:35,040
Speaker 2: I was at home my parents. My plury came, he

306
00:16:35,120 --> 00:16:38,320
Speaker 2: testified at the trial, and he even showed my employee

307
00:16:38,320 --> 00:16:41,040
Speaker 2: ID picture of me having a full beer. Said Calvin

308
00:16:41,120 --> 00:16:43,560
Speaker 2: Johnson has a full beer that had a full beer

309
00:16:43,640 --> 00:16:47,000
Speaker 2: at that time, and they didn't they.

310
00:16:46,880 --> 00:16:52,920
Speaker 5: Didn't wear so that the victim had told the authorities

311
00:16:53,000 --> 00:16:56,560
Speaker 5: that the assailant was clean shaven, Is that right?

312
00:16:57,720 --> 00:17:00,880
Speaker 2: Well, she said that he had I think if I

313
00:17:00,920 --> 00:17:05,440
Speaker 2: remember correctly, that she said that he had a mustache,

314
00:17:05,960 --> 00:17:09,439
Speaker 2: and she didn't even describe anything about any facial hair

315
00:17:09,520 --> 00:17:12,080
Speaker 2: until later on where she actually said that it may

316
00:17:12,080 --> 00:17:15,359
Speaker 2: have been some stokee so, but she never mentioned anything

317
00:17:15,359 --> 00:17:15,880
Speaker 2: about a food.

318
00:17:16,080 --> 00:17:16,280
Speaker 1: Yeah.

319
00:17:16,280 --> 00:17:20,119
Speaker 5: So so here you are, I mean, and what's you know,

320
00:17:20,200 --> 00:17:24,520
Speaker 5: what's common common factors that we see in your case

321
00:17:25,280 --> 00:17:30,520
Speaker 5: our eyewitness misidentification and unvalidated or improper forensic science. And

322
00:17:30,600 --> 00:17:33,560
Speaker 5: in this case it was flawed zerology, right, because, as

323
00:17:33,600 --> 00:17:37,719
Speaker 5: you were saying, the idea that the lab analysts testified

324
00:17:37,760 --> 00:17:40,720
Speaker 5: at trial that thirty six percent of the male population

325
00:17:40,800 --> 00:17:44,000
Speaker 5: could be excluded as potential contributors to the semen was

326
00:17:44,160 --> 00:17:46,920
Speaker 5: absolutely wrong because in this case, the victim and the

327
00:17:47,040 --> 00:17:53,240
Speaker 5: and the perpetrator shared shared common traits which actually meant

328
00:17:54,119 --> 00:17:58,160
Speaker 5: for reasons that are that are complex in science. But basically,

329
00:17:58,200 --> 00:18:00,840
Speaker 5: the victims blood group markers could have been masking the

330
00:18:00,880 --> 00:18:04,840
Speaker 5: perpetrators and under such circumstances. The failure I'm reading this part,

331
00:18:04,880 --> 00:18:06,879
Speaker 5: the failure to inform the jury that one hundred percent,

332
00:18:07,160 --> 00:18:10,479
Speaker 5: one hundred percent of the male population could have been

333
00:18:10,480 --> 00:18:14,119
Speaker 5: included and that none could be excluded, was highly misleading.

334
00:18:14,200 --> 00:18:17,920
Speaker 5: Even still though all you're doing, even if she was right,

335
00:18:17,960 --> 00:18:21,680
Speaker 5: which she wasn't, you would say that you could only

336
00:18:21,720 --> 00:18:24,160
Speaker 5: eliminate thirty six percent of the population. That's not enough

337
00:18:24,200 --> 00:18:26,000
Speaker 5: to convict somebody instead of the prison for the rest

338
00:18:26,040 --> 00:18:28,200
Speaker 5: of her life when you have all of this exculpatory

339
00:18:28,200 --> 00:18:31,639
Speaker 5: evidence that was brought forward. But the fact is you

340
00:18:31,760 --> 00:18:36,920
Speaker 5: were in an impossible situation, as you described, and you

341
00:18:37,240 --> 00:18:41,239
Speaker 5: had virtually no chance. So what was that moment if

342
00:18:41,280 --> 00:18:45,840
Speaker 5: you could describe the courtroom at that moment, was when

343
00:18:46,359 --> 00:18:49,639
Speaker 5: the most terrible moment of your life when the jury

344
00:18:49,680 --> 00:18:52,200
Speaker 5: came back and rendered you guilty.

345
00:18:53,920 --> 00:18:56,840
Speaker 2: It was sad. The reason why I use the word

346
00:18:56,920 --> 00:19:02,360
Speaker 2: sad because my parents were there. I'm a pretty kind

347
00:19:02,359 --> 00:19:04,840
Speaker 2: of look at myself as a pretty tough guy. But

348
00:19:04,920 --> 00:19:08,760
Speaker 2: I hear the guilty verdict and I'm looking back. That's

349
00:19:08,800 --> 00:19:11,760
Speaker 2: the first idea. I look back at my mom and

350
00:19:12,320 --> 00:19:15,920
Speaker 2: I can see the expression out her face, the expression

351
00:19:15,920 --> 00:19:20,080
Speaker 2: of a disbelief. But my dad was he it was like,

352
00:19:20,840 --> 00:19:24,040
Speaker 2: you know, he had a serious look because my dad

353
00:19:24,080 --> 00:19:26,320
Speaker 2: had a little more knowledge and he knew what was

354
00:19:26,359 --> 00:19:29,480
Speaker 2: going on, and he knew that my chances were slim,

355
00:19:29,720 --> 00:19:33,159
Speaker 2: So I don't think he was surprised. But a mother's

356
00:19:33,160 --> 00:19:36,159
Speaker 2: love for her son is something special, and it just

357
00:19:36,280 --> 00:19:37,640
Speaker 2: it literally broke her heart.

358
00:19:38,000 --> 00:19:38,760
Speaker 1: And I could see it.

359
00:19:38,960 --> 00:19:41,080
Speaker 2: I can see it at that time, and that's what

360
00:19:41,200 --> 00:19:44,399
Speaker 2: bothered me more than anything, you know, looking back and

361
00:19:45,440 --> 00:19:48,679
Speaker 2: only seeing my mom's expression, you know, and I can

362
00:19:48,720 --> 00:19:51,159
Speaker 2: see it. It was written all over her face. And shortly

363
00:19:51,200 --> 00:19:54,320
Speaker 2: after that, my mom did suffer a very serious stroke

364
00:19:54,440 --> 00:19:56,200
Speaker 2: because it broke.

365
00:19:56,000 --> 00:20:00,399
Speaker 5: From now you get taken away, ultimately sentenced to a

366
00:20:00,480 --> 00:20:08,160
Speaker 5: double life term, right and taken to prison. And I've

367
00:20:08,200 --> 00:20:11,000
Speaker 5: heard you in a speech that you gave, very powerful

368
00:20:11,000 --> 00:20:14,560
Speaker 5: speech that you gave. Explain what that was like. And

369
00:20:14,600 --> 00:20:18,000
Speaker 5: it just blew my mind to take us there, Calvin,

370
00:20:18,040 --> 00:20:20,080
Speaker 5: you what prison were you sent to?

371
00:20:21,240 --> 00:20:23,800
Speaker 2: I was sent to a prison in South Georgia. I

372
00:20:23,920 --> 00:20:27,720
Speaker 2: was actually sent to the hardest working state prison in

373
00:20:27,760 --> 00:20:28,520
Speaker 2: the state of Georgia.

374
00:20:28,520 --> 00:20:29,040
Speaker 1: At that time.

375
00:20:29,080 --> 00:20:33,800
Speaker 2: I was young, twenty five years old, and they decided that,

376
00:20:33,960 --> 00:20:35,920
Speaker 2: you know, this is a young person that he can

377
00:20:36,000 --> 00:20:39,120
Speaker 2: go down there. And it was really basically they send

378
00:20:39,119 --> 00:20:42,440
Speaker 2: you down there to this prison and you work. It's

379
00:20:42,480 --> 00:20:46,000
Speaker 2: a work camp, and everybody in the prison. It's a

380
00:20:46,000 --> 00:20:48,600
Speaker 2: small prison, know the more than maybe by two hundred men,

381
00:20:48,840 --> 00:20:51,800
Speaker 2: but everybody there either has life sentence or twenty years more.

382
00:20:51,840 --> 00:20:54,320
Speaker 2: There's no short time as there at all. It's a

383
00:20:54,359 --> 00:20:59,440
Speaker 2: close security prison. And you go outside and you're early.

384
00:20:59,200 --> 00:21:01,359
Speaker 1: In the morning. You wake up in the morning and

385
00:21:00,960 --> 00:21:02,280
Speaker 1: they feed you.

386
00:21:02,320 --> 00:21:04,439
Speaker 2: They walk around for a shotgun above you, like as

387
00:21:04,440 --> 00:21:06,960
Speaker 2: if to say, hey, you know, feed my boys good.

388
00:21:07,119 --> 00:21:09,919
Speaker 2: And the Wharton's walking around and he's looking down at you.

389
00:21:10,640 --> 00:21:13,200
Speaker 2: And then they take you out. And I remember working

390
00:21:13,400 --> 00:21:17,960
Speaker 2: in swamp land and swamp water and with water up

391
00:21:18,000 --> 00:21:21,679
Speaker 2: to my knees, with moccasins swimming around, and every now

392
00:21:21,680 --> 00:21:24,639
Speaker 2: and then you run across a rattlesnake. And this was

393
00:21:24,680 --> 00:21:26,800
Speaker 2: something that I never dealt with in my life. It

394
00:21:26,840 --> 00:21:29,400
Speaker 2: was it was really, it was just it was crazy,

395
00:21:30,040 --> 00:21:32,840
Speaker 2: and I had to make this adjustment to just deal

396
00:21:32,840 --> 00:21:34,679
Speaker 2: with that and to deal with the violence of prison

397
00:21:35,040 --> 00:21:37,480
Speaker 2: where you sleeping in your bed at night with your

398
00:21:37,680 --> 00:21:40,439
Speaker 2: with your shoes on because you never know when you

399
00:21:40,520 --> 00:21:42,359
Speaker 2: might wake up in the middle of the night. I

400
00:21:42,400 --> 00:21:46,119
Speaker 2: remember one time an individual I was sleeping on a

401
00:21:46,119 --> 00:21:48,359
Speaker 2: double bunk and the bump below me started shaking in

402
00:21:48,400 --> 00:21:51,240
Speaker 2: the middle of the night, and I looked down and

403
00:21:51,280 --> 00:21:54,200
Speaker 2: the guy below me were being stabbed because he borrought

404
00:21:54,280 --> 00:21:57,959
Speaker 2: some money I bought. Basically, it's not money, but cigarettes

405
00:21:58,000 --> 00:22:01,120
Speaker 2: are candy or something, and he didn't pay his debt,

406
00:22:01,400 --> 00:22:05,760
Speaker 2: and so it's his own world. It's we call this

407
00:22:06,000 --> 00:22:09,199
Speaker 2: on the outside the free world. The prison world is

408
00:22:09,240 --> 00:22:12,560
Speaker 2: a whole different world in itself, and it's run differently,

409
00:22:12,960 --> 00:22:15,159
Speaker 2: and it's just a matter of survival. You got You

410
00:22:15,240 --> 00:22:18,000
Speaker 2: go in there and you try to survive. And the

411
00:22:18,119 --> 00:22:20,760
Speaker 2: strong pay pray upon the week, so you have to

412
00:22:20,800 --> 00:22:23,800
Speaker 2: be strong. So during the course of years when I

413
00:22:23,840 --> 00:22:26,000
Speaker 2: was in prison, I used to just lift weights all

414
00:22:26,040 --> 00:22:28,280
Speaker 2: the time. It was a way, it was a therapy.

415
00:22:28,520 --> 00:22:30,879
Speaker 2: It was a way for me to relieve some of

416
00:22:30,920 --> 00:22:34,719
Speaker 2: the anxiety and the emotions that were After I lifted them,

417
00:22:34,800 --> 00:22:36,680
Speaker 2: I was too tired to do anything or to get

418
00:22:36,720 --> 00:22:39,399
Speaker 2: in any trouble. Plus it built me up physically so

419
00:22:39,440 --> 00:22:42,320
Speaker 2: that I could defend myself, or at least people would

420
00:22:42,320 --> 00:22:45,600
Speaker 2: think twice about before trying to take advantage of me anyway,

421
00:22:45,600 --> 00:22:49,080
Speaker 2: because I was physically fit. And those years went by,

422
00:22:49,520 --> 00:22:53,520
Speaker 2: and I remember being in prison and they wanted us

423
00:22:53,560 --> 00:22:57,080
Speaker 2: to you know, prison doesn't rehabilitate you, but they like

424
00:22:57,200 --> 00:23:00,720
Speaker 2: to make society think that they and their rehability tain people.

425
00:23:01,080 --> 00:23:03,440
Speaker 2: And they had this program in there called the Sexual

426
00:23:03,480 --> 00:23:06,560
Speaker 2: Offenders program that they wanted me to be involved in.

427
00:23:07,200 --> 00:23:10,679
Speaker 2: And I'm like, hell, you want me to be involved

428
00:23:10,680 --> 00:23:13,680
Speaker 2: in the sexual offenders program? And so I had people

429
00:23:14,080 --> 00:23:16,399
Speaker 2: make suggestions and say stuff like, you know, even my

430
00:23:16,480 --> 00:23:20,280
Speaker 2: family just say just just do the program, play along

431
00:23:20,320 --> 00:23:23,199
Speaker 2: with them so that you can get out. And so

432
00:23:23,240 --> 00:23:26,320
Speaker 2: you actually think about this, you know, crazy thought. But

433
00:23:26,359 --> 00:23:29,119
Speaker 2: I'm like, hey, I can't sit there and say I

434
00:23:29,160 --> 00:23:32,000
Speaker 2: did something that I didn't do. So I went ahead

435
00:23:32,040 --> 00:23:35,639
Speaker 2: and got into the program for a little while. And

436
00:23:35,840 --> 00:23:37,520
Speaker 2: as I was in the program, you go through the

437
00:23:37,560 --> 00:23:40,720
Speaker 2: first half, I felt terrible. I'm sitting in the room

438
00:23:40,760 --> 00:23:45,439
Speaker 2: with sexual predators, rapists and child molesters, and I just

439
00:23:45,800 --> 00:23:48,080
Speaker 2: I just don't feel right. I don't say anything. I'm

440
00:23:48,119 --> 00:23:50,320
Speaker 2: just sitting there in the room every day going to

441
00:23:50,359 --> 00:23:53,639
Speaker 2: this little class. And then finally they complete that part

442
00:23:53,920 --> 00:23:55,960
Speaker 2: and you get to the second portion of the program,

443
00:23:56,280 --> 00:23:58,639
Speaker 2: and they say that order to complete the program, you

444
00:23:58,680 --> 00:24:01,840
Speaker 2: have to sign an admission again up and I'm like,

445
00:24:01,960 --> 00:24:04,920
Speaker 2: what sign a mission to guilt? I said, I can't

446
00:24:04,920 --> 00:24:08,400
Speaker 2: do that. I can't do that because I'm not guilty.

447
00:24:08,880 --> 00:24:11,240
Speaker 2: And then I went to see my counselor, and the

448
00:24:11,280 --> 00:24:13,240
Speaker 2: counselor looked at me and looked me in my eyes

449
00:24:13,280 --> 00:24:16,040
Speaker 2: and told me said, listen, if you don't sign that

450
00:24:16,160 --> 00:24:19,520
Speaker 2: mission to guilt, you'll probably never ever get out of prison.

451
00:24:19,560 --> 00:24:21,440
Speaker 2: You'll be here for the rest of your life. And

452
00:24:21,520 --> 00:24:24,720
Speaker 2: so guys were taking this course and signing the missions

453
00:24:24,720 --> 00:24:27,960
Speaker 2: of guilt and then they would get parolled out. But

454
00:24:28,680 --> 00:24:30,879
Speaker 2: I sat there. I thought about it. I prayed about it,

455
00:24:30,920 --> 00:24:33,280
Speaker 2: and I thought about it. I said to myself, I'd

456
00:24:33,359 --> 00:24:35,879
Speaker 2: rather die in prison to sit there and say that

457
00:24:35,960 --> 00:24:38,000
Speaker 2: I did something that I didn't do. I said, what

458
00:24:38,080 --> 00:24:40,359
Speaker 2: kind of life would I have come out of prison

459
00:24:40,640 --> 00:24:43,120
Speaker 2: with that stigma over me. I said, I couldn't live.

460
00:24:43,480 --> 00:24:45,800
Speaker 2: I'll walk out into my yard and the neighborhod run

461
00:24:45,800 --> 00:24:47,800
Speaker 2: out and grabbed the children and run inside the house.

462
00:24:48,160 --> 00:24:51,080
Speaker 2: That's not a life, that's not a life. So I

463
00:24:51,200 --> 00:24:53,840
Speaker 2: refused to do it. Those years went on, and those

464
00:24:53,880 --> 00:24:57,000
Speaker 2: years went on within prison, and I remember getting to

465
00:24:57,000 --> 00:25:00,880
Speaker 2: a point where my tempers started getting short, I started

466
00:25:00,960 --> 00:25:05,600
Speaker 2: being anti social. I felt like a walking time bomb.

467
00:25:05,880 --> 00:25:08,680
Speaker 2: I felt like a rubber band being stretched to a

468
00:25:08,720 --> 00:25:11,119
Speaker 2: point that was just getting ready to take pole and

469
00:25:11,320 --> 00:25:14,600
Speaker 2: just pop. And I remember at that point, at that time,

470
00:25:15,160 --> 00:25:18,040
Speaker 2: I just got down on my knees and I prayed.

471
00:25:18,520 --> 00:25:21,240
Speaker 2: I prayed, and I couldn't deal with the burden. That's

472
00:25:21,280 --> 00:25:24,399
Speaker 2: when God entered into my life and my life changed.

473
00:25:24,680 --> 00:25:27,120
Speaker 2: And then I remember hearing about DNA technology.

474
00:25:37,680 --> 00:25:39,960
Speaker 5: This is down getting to the part of the story that's,

475
00:25:40,240 --> 00:25:44,000
Speaker 5: you know, always the best part, I guess, right, which

476
00:25:44,040 --> 00:25:47,440
Speaker 5: is when things turn around in the right direction. And

477
00:25:47,760 --> 00:25:51,360
Speaker 5: in your case, it was the Innocence Project, which obviously

478
00:25:51,400 --> 00:25:53,679
Speaker 5: I have a very close connection with, being the founding

479
00:25:53,680 --> 00:25:56,600
Speaker 5: board member and being having served on the board for

480
00:25:56,680 --> 00:25:59,359
Speaker 5: so many years and so many years alongside you, and

481
00:25:59,480 --> 00:26:03,919
Speaker 5: so you started learning about the DNA technology and it

482
00:26:04,000 --> 00:26:06,080
Speaker 5: must have been like a light bulb going off, like, wait,

483
00:26:06,119 --> 00:26:07,640
Speaker 5: there might be hope for me after all.

484
00:26:08,920 --> 00:26:13,080
Speaker 2: Yes, yes, that's exactly what happened. I was working in

485
00:26:13,200 --> 00:26:18,040
Speaker 2: the library in the prison. Because of my educational background,

486
00:26:18,400 --> 00:26:21,280
Speaker 2: they gave me a job in the library, and they

487
00:26:21,320 --> 00:26:25,560
Speaker 2: had the regular library for the prisoners to convicts, and

488
00:26:25,720 --> 00:26:29,960
Speaker 2: they also had a law library that you could use

489
00:26:30,000 --> 00:26:34,919
Speaker 2: at times. And the staff member who he ran both libraries,

490
00:26:35,200 --> 00:26:37,560
Speaker 2: and he would allow me to have access to go

491
00:26:37,600 --> 00:26:40,280
Speaker 2: into the law library whenever I wanted. And one day

492
00:26:40,680 --> 00:26:45,960
Speaker 2: I stumbled across an article of DNA technology where people

493
00:26:46,000 --> 00:26:50,160
Speaker 2: were actually getting out of prison based on this technology,

494
00:26:50,520 --> 00:26:53,360
Speaker 2: and I said, Wow, now I'm trying to figure out

495
00:26:53,440 --> 00:26:56,600
Speaker 2: how the heck can I get a DNA test.

496
00:26:56,800 --> 00:26:58,880
Speaker 1: I really really, really really really.

497
00:26:58,760 --> 00:27:02,120
Speaker 2: Wanted to do that to to prove that I was innocent,

498
00:27:02,400 --> 00:27:05,360
Speaker 2: but that was a struggle in his self. And they

499
00:27:05,359 --> 00:27:08,720
Speaker 2: had a guy named Jim Browner Jim Bonner. He used

500
00:27:08,720 --> 00:27:10,840
Speaker 2: to come into the Prisident. He was with the project

501
00:27:10,920 --> 00:27:15,199
Speaker 2: called Prisident Legal Counseling Projects, who did little simple stuff

502
00:27:15,240 --> 00:27:19,359
Speaker 2: like haybist corporates for prisoners and so forth. And I

503
00:27:19,440 --> 00:27:22,239
Speaker 2: talked to him. I told him about my situation, and

504
00:27:22,240 --> 00:27:24,800
Speaker 2: he's actually the one that got the bass started in

505
00:27:24,840 --> 00:27:27,119
Speaker 2: the beginning, because when I told him about it, I

506
00:27:27,119 --> 00:27:29,680
Speaker 2: told him my whole story. And after that I looked

507
00:27:29,760 --> 00:27:30,879
Speaker 2: him in the eye and said, you don't have to

508
00:27:30,880 --> 00:27:32,720
Speaker 2: believe a word, I said, I said, but let me

509
00:27:32,760 --> 00:27:35,840
Speaker 2: send you my transcript. And I gave him my transcript

510
00:27:36,080 --> 00:27:38,600
Speaker 2: and one day he read it and he came back

511
00:27:38,840 --> 00:27:41,120
Speaker 2: he said, Man, I can't believe this. He said, I'm

512
00:27:41,119 --> 00:27:42,840
Speaker 2: really I really wanted to try to do something to

513
00:27:42,880 --> 00:27:46,439
Speaker 2: help you, because this is an atrocity in itself, and

514
00:27:46,480 --> 00:27:48,440
Speaker 2: he said, I just can't believe that this happened to you.

515
00:27:49,200 --> 00:27:51,560
Speaker 2: And he started trying to see if there was some

516
00:27:51,640 --> 00:27:55,600
Speaker 2: type of way that we can do something about my situation,

517
00:27:56,200 --> 00:28:02,639
Speaker 2: and he found basically emotionn't called the extraordinary motion based

518
00:28:02,680 --> 00:28:05,479
Speaker 2: on newly discovered evidence, and to try to see if

519
00:28:05,520 --> 00:28:08,320
Speaker 2: they even had the evidence, if it still existed. And

520
00:28:08,400 --> 00:28:10,280
Speaker 2: so they went on the search to see if the

521
00:28:10,320 --> 00:28:13,560
Speaker 2: evidence even still existed, and in my case is one

522
00:28:13,560 --> 00:28:17,520
Speaker 2: of the really strange cases because at first they couldn't

523
00:28:17,520 --> 00:28:22,440
Speaker 2: find it. But what happened was they had actually were

524
00:28:22,480 --> 00:28:24,760
Speaker 2: going to destroy the evidence. There was no laws at

525
00:28:24,760 --> 00:28:26,360
Speaker 2: that time. They said they had to keep it after

526
00:28:26,560 --> 00:28:29,280
Speaker 2: after the trial, and the evidence had been thrown into

527
00:28:29,320 --> 00:28:32,879
Speaker 2: a trash bend to be destroyed, and somebody from the

528
00:28:32,920 --> 00:28:35,119
Speaker 2: court they saw it and they said, hey, why is

529
00:28:35,119 --> 00:28:38,520
Speaker 2: this evidence being destroyed and throw it away, and they

530
00:28:38,520 --> 00:28:39,560
Speaker 2: took it and they put it.

531
00:28:39,480 --> 00:28:43,440
Speaker 5: Back hold on a second miracr The evidence that freed

532
00:28:43,480 --> 00:28:46,600
Speaker 5: you was actually in a trash can and somebody saw

533
00:28:46,640 --> 00:28:48,200
Speaker 5: it and had like your name on it or something

534
00:28:48,200 --> 00:28:49,880
Speaker 5: like that, and was like, wait, let me pluck that out.

535
00:28:50,000 --> 00:28:52,560
Speaker 5: Is that that seems like it seems unreal?

536
00:28:53,720 --> 00:28:54,360
Speaker 1: It does.

537
00:28:54,440 --> 00:28:57,160
Speaker 2: It does seem very unreal. But this is exactly how

538
00:28:57,160 --> 00:29:00,360
Speaker 2: it was explained to me that it was actually, you know,

539
00:29:00,480 --> 00:29:02,760
Speaker 2: in the trash bend to be destroyed.

540
00:29:03,160 --> 00:29:05,040
Speaker 1: I look at that. It was a miracle. It was

541
00:29:05,080 --> 00:29:05,600
Speaker 1: a miracle.

542
00:29:06,200 --> 00:29:09,920
Speaker 2: And so the evidence was was brought back out and

543
00:29:10,680 --> 00:29:12,480
Speaker 2: that was the evidence that they were going to test.

544
00:29:12,520 --> 00:29:16,760
Speaker 2: But then after that they took and the prison and

545
00:29:16,840 --> 00:29:20,240
Speaker 2: Legal Counselor project that was helping me with this guy,

546
00:29:20,400 --> 00:29:24,160
Speaker 2: they actually stopped the project. So I'm looking, I said, well, wow,

547
00:29:24,280 --> 00:29:27,880
Speaker 2: now what did I do? And then a friend, a

548
00:29:27,880 --> 00:29:30,440
Speaker 2: friend of mine who knew the plight of my situation,

549
00:29:30,840 --> 00:29:32,720
Speaker 2: who lived in Ohio, who I grew up with.

550
00:29:33,320 --> 00:29:34,360
Speaker 1: They were at I.

551
00:29:34,280 --> 00:29:36,960
Speaker 2: Guess what you call a place where you hand out

552
00:29:37,000 --> 00:29:39,440
Speaker 2: food and clothing and so forth to people to come

553
00:29:39,440 --> 00:29:41,960
Speaker 2: through that are in need. And some guy this was

554
00:29:42,000 --> 00:29:44,479
Speaker 2: in Ohio. I don't know who the guy was, but

555
00:29:44,600 --> 00:29:48,320
Speaker 2: some guy was in the line and he was young.

556
00:29:48,480 --> 00:29:52,280
Speaker 2: And my I call my aut Marty, who was my godmother.

557
00:29:52,720 --> 00:29:54,960
Speaker 2: She said, well, you know, man, why don't you have

558
00:29:55,000 --> 00:29:58,200
Speaker 2: a job. Why are you in this line? And he said, well,

559
00:29:58,480 --> 00:30:00,840
Speaker 2: I just recently got out of prison. And he told

560
00:30:00,840 --> 00:30:03,960
Speaker 2: her about he mentioned about the Innocence Project. He said,

561
00:30:04,000 --> 00:30:06,400
Speaker 2: they got me out of prison for a crime I

562
00:30:06,400 --> 00:30:09,120
Speaker 2: didn't commit. And they said, wow, you know, give us

563
00:30:09,120 --> 00:30:11,920
Speaker 2: the information. Just give us that information and we'll bring

564
00:30:11,960 --> 00:30:14,040
Speaker 2: you some more clothes and help you out a little

565
00:30:14,040 --> 00:30:16,000
Speaker 2: bit more. Just give it the information card. We know

566
00:30:16,120 --> 00:30:18,760
Speaker 2: somebody in the same situation. And they wrote me a

567
00:30:18,840 --> 00:30:21,440
Speaker 2: letter and he gave me the information about the Innocent Project.

568
00:30:21,720 --> 00:30:24,320
Speaker 2: And that's when I got in contact with the Innocent Project.

569
00:30:24,360 --> 00:30:26,840
Speaker 5: And this was not too long after the Innisce project

570
00:30:26,840 --> 00:30:29,680
Speaker 5: had started, because we're talking about late nineties now, right,

571
00:30:31,240 --> 00:30:33,680
Speaker 5: And so yeah, so you because I know that you

572
00:30:33,760 --> 00:30:41,400
Speaker 5: were the first DNA exonery in Georgia, right, Yes, that's

573
00:30:41,920 --> 00:30:44,320
Speaker 5: a powerful thing. I mean, that's that no one's ever

574
00:30:44,360 --> 00:30:45,880
Speaker 5: going to take that away from you. I know that's

575
00:30:45,920 --> 00:30:48,240
Speaker 5: not you know, I always say to all the guests

576
00:30:48,240 --> 00:30:50,840
Speaker 5: that we have on the show. You know, I'm happy

577
00:30:50,840 --> 00:30:52,400
Speaker 5: you're here, but i'm sorry you're here because you're a

578
00:30:52,440 --> 00:30:54,080
Speaker 5: member of a club that no one should ever have

579
00:30:54,160 --> 00:30:55,680
Speaker 5: to be a member of, and no one would ever

580
00:30:55,760 --> 00:30:57,840
Speaker 5: want to be a member of. But that is an

581
00:30:57,840 --> 00:31:00,440
Speaker 5: amazing distinction. And of course now you're so serving with

582
00:31:00,480 --> 00:31:02,640
Speaker 5: distinction not only on the Interst's Project board in New York,

583
00:31:02,640 --> 00:31:05,040
Speaker 5: but also the board of the Georgia Intercess Project. So

584
00:31:05,480 --> 00:31:08,120
Speaker 5: that's so there's two there's two miracles here, right, One

585
00:31:08,160 --> 00:31:10,640
Speaker 5: is pulling the thing out of the garbage can, and

586
00:31:10,680 --> 00:31:13,960
Speaker 5: the other is bumping into this guy sort of randomly

587
00:31:13,960 --> 00:31:17,080
Speaker 5: who had this information that you were looking for. And

588
00:31:17,120 --> 00:31:19,320
Speaker 5: then things started to really progress.

589
00:31:20,240 --> 00:31:23,600
Speaker 2: Once I got involved with the Innocence Project. Actually, uh,

590
00:31:24,080 --> 00:31:26,960
Speaker 2: you know, once they took it, I actually I had

591
00:31:27,040 --> 00:31:29,800
Speaker 2: very strong faith in them. I believed once they took it,

592
00:31:29,840 --> 00:31:31,800
Speaker 2: I said, okay, wow, just a matter of time before

593
00:31:32,160 --> 00:31:35,400
Speaker 2: I walk away and then I'm free. But then they

594
00:31:35,440 --> 00:31:39,120
Speaker 2: took and they had my evidence tested, and once they

595
00:31:39,120 --> 00:31:43,320
Speaker 2: had it tested, it came back where it was inconclusive.

596
00:31:43,440 --> 00:31:46,720
Speaker 2: At first, it actually came back inconclusive. And then I

597
00:31:46,760 --> 00:31:50,200
Speaker 2: remember talking to Barry and Peter on the phone, and

598
00:31:50,240 --> 00:31:52,600
Speaker 2: they were saying, you got a choice. You know, what

599
00:31:52,960 --> 00:31:55,000
Speaker 2: are you going to do now? They said, all the

600
00:31:55,040 --> 00:31:59,000
Speaker 2: evidence is basically almost almost used up. If we continue

601
00:31:59,040 --> 00:32:02,440
Speaker 2: to test, then what happened is if we use up

602
00:32:02,440 --> 00:32:04,400
Speaker 2: out evidence, you'll never get out of prison. Come, we

603
00:32:04,400 --> 00:32:06,640
Speaker 2: won't have anything else to test. All You can wait

604
00:32:06,640 --> 00:32:11,000
Speaker 2: till years later when technology improves, as we get better technology,

605
00:32:11,360 --> 00:32:13,800
Speaker 2: then we can test that small amount of evidence and

606
00:32:13,880 --> 00:32:16,520
Speaker 2: try to get the proper result. They said, we do

607
00:32:16,600 --> 00:32:19,360
Speaker 2: an know a guy in California named doctor Edward Blake

608
00:32:19,840 --> 00:32:22,400
Speaker 2: who's really good. Now it's up to you to make

609
00:32:22,440 --> 00:32:25,520
Speaker 2: that decision. And I decided, you know, at that time,

610
00:32:25,560 --> 00:32:29,200
Speaker 2: I said, well, you know, let's go ahead. Let's go ahead.

611
00:32:29,240 --> 00:32:31,640
Speaker 2: I we rather were using up or not, you know,

612
00:32:31,960 --> 00:32:34,040
Speaker 2: let's go forward. And they sent it out to a

613
00:32:34,080 --> 00:32:37,280
Speaker 2: guy named doctor Edward Blake, and doctor Edward Blake tested

614
00:32:37,320 --> 00:32:39,640
Speaker 2: it and he came back with the results. And I

615
00:32:39,640 --> 00:32:43,320
Speaker 2: can't really say how you know the numbers, but I

616
00:32:43,400 --> 00:32:46,320
Speaker 2: know will proven beyond any reasonable doubt that there was

617
00:32:46,360 --> 00:32:48,520
Speaker 2: no way through then that technology that I could could

618
00:32:48,520 --> 00:32:52,120
Speaker 2: have committed the crime. And that was in November of

619
00:32:52,440 --> 00:32:57,160
Speaker 2: nineteen ninety eight. And it still wasn't until nineteen ninety

620
00:32:57,280 --> 00:33:01,040
Speaker 2: nine before I actually was able to walk out of prison.

621
00:33:01,080 --> 00:33:05,160
Speaker 5: So let's talk about that. June fifteenth, nineteen ninety nine,

622
00:33:05,840 --> 00:33:10,520
Speaker 5: was your exoneration date. And what was the scene in

623
00:33:10,560 --> 00:33:13,440
Speaker 5: the courtroom. Let's do this again, right, so this is

624
00:33:14,000 --> 00:33:17,840
Speaker 5: your back in court. Was it the same court where

625
00:33:17,840 --> 00:33:18,560
Speaker 5: you were convicted?

626
00:33:19,680 --> 00:33:22,240
Speaker 2: It wasn't the exact same courtroom, but it was still

627
00:33:22,240 --> 00:33:25,360
Speaker 2: it was Clayton County with Clayton County. Well, I can

628
00:33:25,440 --> 00:33:28,840
Speaker 2: remember before I before I even walked into the courtroom,

629
00:33:29,120 --> 00:33:32,800
Speaker 2: Peter Newfield was there and he was my attorney that day.

630
00:33:33,440 --> 00:33:38,720
Speaker 2: And Peter walked up to me and said, uh, Calvin, uh, there's.

631
00:33:38,480 --> 00:33:40,280
Speaker 1: Going to be some some some newspeople.

632
00:33:40,440 --> 00:33:42,800
Speaker 2: It shouldn't be that bad, but there's gonna be some

633
00:33:43,400 --> 00:33:46,560
Speaker 2: cameras and so forth that may be uh waiting on you.

634
00:33:47,000 --> 00:33:50,400
Speaker 2: And he asked me. He looked at me, he said, Calvin, Uh,

635
00:33:50,480 --> 00:33:54,120
Speaker 2: what do you planning to say? And you know I

636
00:33:54,160 --> 00:33:56,160
Speaker 2: have a way of answering questions and I just looked

637
00:33:56,200 --> 00:33:58,760
Speaker 2: at him and said, Peter, don't worry, I'm not going

638
00:33:58,760 --> 00:34:01,280
Speaker 2: to embarrass you and just kind of laughed.

639
00:34:01,640 --> 00:34:02,320
Speaker 1: And then we went.

640
00:34:02,280 --> 00:34:06,800
Speaker 2: Into the courtroom, and I remember my family was there.

641
00:34:06,880 --> 00:34:10,200
Speaker 2: My mother couldn't be there because she was bedridden at

642
00:34:10,200 --> 00:34:14,640
Speaker 2: the time, so she was in a medical facility but

643
00:34:14,760 --> 00:34:16,719
Speaker 2: so she couldn't be there, but my father was there,

644
00:34:16,840 --> 00:34:20,000
Speaker 2: my sisters were there. I remember the judge going through

645
00:34:20,000 --> 00:34:23,760
Speaker 2: the proceedings and I remember him saying, well, mister Johnson,

646
00:34:24,160 --> 00:34:27,440
Speaker 2: you're free. I remember the prosecutor. He walked over to

647
00:34:27,480 --> 00:34:31,960
Speaker 2: me and he he never did apologize or anything. He

648
00:34:32,120 --> 00:34:35,040
Speaker 2: just kind of reached out and I did shake his hand.

649
00:34:35,520 --> 00:34:37,399
Speaker 2: People wondered, would I even shake his hand, But yes,

650
00:34:37,600 --> 00:34:40,680
Speaker 2: I shook his hand. I shook his hand and he

651
00:34:40,760 --> 00:34:45,040
Speaker 2: said something like, well, uh, I wish you the best.

652
00:34:45,040 --> 00:34:47,319
Speaker 2: But you know, at the time, we felt like we

653
00:34:47,320 --> 00:34:50,759
Speaker 2: were doing what was right, you know, so you know,

654
00:34:50,800 --> 00:34:53,719
Speaker 2: and I kind of I didn't say anything, and so

655
00:34:53,760 --> 00:34:56,600
Speaker 2: we walked on out and all these cameras were there,

656
00:34:56,680 --> 00:34:59,359
Speaker 2: and so it was a good feeling. I walked out,

657
00:34:59,400 --> 00:35:02,839
Speaker 2: and you know, this sunshine. It was another beautiful day,

658
00:35:03,640 --> 00:35:05,520
Speaker 2: and all I wanted to do was go see my mom.

659
00:35:05,560 --> 00:35:07,400
Speaker 2: And I went to see my mom and she was

660
00:35:07,480 --> 00:35:09,960
Speaker 2: bed rim She had a trichia and her throat so

661
00:35:10,000 --> 00:35:13,879
Speaker 2: she couldn't hardly talk but I saw when she saw

662
00:35:13,920 --> 00:35:16,520
Speaker 2: me a tear, a tear ran down her face, and

663
00:35:16,560 --> 00:35:18,440
Speaker 2: I told her that was a tear of joy, and

664
00:35:18,480 --> 00:35:21,480
Speaker 2: that was the most special moment of me being released

665
00:35:21,719 --> 00:35:22,799
Speaker 2: when I walked into that room.

666
00:35:22,840 --> 00:35:25,680
Speaker 5: It's a beautiful moment, like you said, and it's so

667
00:35:25,760 --> 00:35:28,600
Speaker 5: great that she lived to see it. You know, it's

668
00:35:28,640 --> 00:35:32,719
Speaker 5: this silver lining in this dark cloud. And so one

669
00:35:32,760 --> 00:35:36,120
Speaker 5: of the silver lines in this dark cloud. And now, Calvin,

670
00:35:36,200 --> 00:35:38,960
Speaker 5: let's see it's now here. We are twenty eighteen. So

671
00:35:39,000 --> 00:35:43,960
Speaker 5: you've been out for nineteen years now, and tell us

672
00:35:44,000 --> 00:35:47,319
Speaker 5: what your life is like. I know you went to

673
00:35:47,360 --> 00:35:52,040
Speaker 5: work for the transportation authority down there. Marta wrote a book.

674
00:35:52,120 --> 00:35:56,120
Speaker 2: Yes, wow. Well, first of all, when I got out

675
00:35:56,120 --> 00:35:59,000
Speaker 2: in nineteen ninety nine, I got involved with a company

676
00:35:59,200 --> 00:36:02,560
Speaker 2: called tech Real, which was a Christian company, and they

677
00:36:02,600 --> 00:36:04,759
Speaker 2: actually I went on a missionary trip with them to

678
00:36:04,880 --> 00:36:09,600
Speaker 2: your Godda, Africa, and that was amazing. It was a

679
00:36:09,680 --> 00:36:12,719
Speaker 2: very humbling experience because it's a very it's a third

680
00:36:12,760 --> 00:36:15,520
Speaker 2: world country and people are very poor over there. But

681
00:36:15,600 --> 00:36:18,200
Speaker 2: we went over there and we actually went into the

682
00:36:18,239 --> 00:36:22,239
Speaker 2: bush area. We went to Capola University and they made

683
00:36:22,239 --> 00:36:24,880
Speaker 2: me the main speaker and I was shocked because we

684
00:36:24,920 --> 00:36:28,239
Speaker 2: had other ministers with us who had churches, but yet

685
00:36:28,280 --> 00:36:30,279
Speaker 2: they made me the main speaker. I couldn't believe it,

686
00:36:30,719 --> 00:36:33,440
Speaker 2: but I shared my story. It was very well received,

687
00:36:33,880 --> 00:36:37,520
Speaker 2: and it was a very humbling, humbling experience. And I

688
00:36:37,560 --> 00:36:40,880
Speaker 2: remember my dad making jokes like saying, hey, you know,

689
00:36:40,960 --> 00:36:43,120
Speaker 2: you're just as you're two minutes of fame. It said,

690
00:36:43,160 --> 00:36:45,840
Speaker 2: it's not gonna last. But it just kept going on.

691
00:36:45,960 --> 00:36:48,920
Speaker 2: It kept going on. And I remember being on different

692
00:36:49,200 --> 00:36:54,319
Speaker 2: shows different Today, good Morning America, The Today's Show, and

693
00:36:55,640 --> 00:36:59,440
Speaker 2: BT with Tavis Smalley, and here I am traveling around

694
00:36:59,520 --> 00:37:02,760
Speaker 2: and I'm speaking and I'm sharing. And then I remember

695
00:37:02,760 --> 00:37:05,320
Speaker 2: a couple of years ago went by and they formed

696
00:37:05,360 --> 00:37:08,000
Speaker 2: the board of directors for the Innocent Project in New York,

697
00:37:08,239 --> 00:37:11,680
Speaker 2: and they actually asked me would I like to sit

698
00:37:11,800 --> 00:37:15,120
Speaker 2: on the board of directors? And I was shocked. I

699
00:37:15,120 --> 00:37:18,080
Speaker 2: mean it was I was so honored to be asked.

700
00:37:18,719 --> 00:37:21,320
Speaker 2: I was the first designery in the in the country

701
00:37:21,680 --> 00:37:24,799
Speaker 2: to sit on the board like that on the Innocence Project. Well,

702
00:37:24,840 --> 00:37:26,640
Speaker 2: I mean this, this was it was. It was amazing

703
00:37:26,680 --> 00:37:29,319
Speaker 2: to me, uh, just to be able to sit there

704
00:37:29,480 --> 00:37:33,000
Speaker 2: and to share and to give my my input. You know,

705
00:37:33,160 --> 00:37:37,319
Speaker 2: sometimes I actually sometimes I felt overwhelmed being around such

706
00:37:37,400 --> 00:37:40,680
Speaker 2: powerful people, and I remember I was being so thankful.

707
00:37:40,680 --> 00:37:43,800
Speaker 2: I remember sometime driving down the street and just looking

708
00:37:43,840 --> 00:37:47,640
Speaker 2: at my house and and almost crying. You know, I

709
00:37:47,680 --> 00:37:50,080
Speaker 2: didn't cry, but I would feel like crying because I

710
00:37:50,120 --> 00:37:53,160
Speaker 2: was just so thankful that that people that I didn't

711
00:37:53,200 --> 00:37:56,319
Speaker 2: even know reached out to to try to help me.

712
00:37:56,680 --> 00:38:03,240
Speaker 2: The volunteers, the supporters, the state have, the attorneys, people

713
00:38:03,239 --> 00:38:05,680
Speaker 2: that I look now as being great people in my eyes,

714
00:38:05,680 --> 00:38:07,760
Speaker 2: who are not just great people, but they're my friends.

715
00:38:08,120 --> 00:38:11,880
Speaker 2: I look at Barrysheck and Peter Newfield and Maddie Delone

716
00:38:11,680 --> 00:38:15,720
Speaker 2: and the Jason Floms of the world as great people

717
00:38:15,760 --> 00:38:18,960
Speaker 2: that have made a difference. They have changed lives, that

718
00:38:18,960 --> 00:38:21,920
Speaker 2: are making difference into this judicial system that we have

719
00:38:22,000 --> 00:38:25,040
Speaker 2: in this country. That's not perfect. It's a great country,

720
00:38:25,080 --> 00:38:28,560
Speaker 2: but the system has some flaws because anything that man

721
00:38:28,600 --> 00:38:31,400
Speaker 2: may not be perfect. And so my life went on.

722
00:38:31,520 --> 00:38:36,200
Speaker 2: My life went on. I've been married twice. My first

723
00:38:36,200 --> 00:38:38,720
Speaker 2: marriage I end up getting a divorce, and my second marriage,

724
00:38:38,719 --> 00:38:40,800
Speaker 2: believe it or not, I'm actually going through a divorce.

725
00:38:42,040 --> 00:38:44,720
Speaker 1: But hey, I'm free. I'm free.

726
00:38:45,480 --> 00:38:48,520
Speaker 2: I've been at my job now at the Transportation Agency

727
00:38:48,560 --> 00:38:53,400
Speaker 2: with Martyn Metropolitan Atlanta Rapid Transit Authorities for nineteen years.

728
00:38:53,680 --> 00:38:56,279
Speaker 2: I could probably retire in another year if I want to.

729
00:38:56,600 --> 00:38:59,640
Speaker 2: And I still do a little a few speaking engagements,

730
00:39:00,120 --> 00:39:03,359
Speaker 2: travel here and there and share my story. As you said,

731
00:39:03,400 --> 00:39:06,160
Speaker 2: I did write a book called Exit the Freedom, which

732
00:39:06,200 --> 00:39:08,799
Speaker 2: I tell people is not just a physical exit, but

733
00:39:08,920 --> 00:39:12,040
Speaker 2: it's a spiritual exit also, And so my freedom came

734
00:39:12,560 --> 00:39:15,880
Speaker 2: even actually before I walked through those doors. I felt

735
00:39:15,920 --> 00:39:18,920
Speaker 2: free on the inside and that meant a lot. And

736
00:39:19,040 --> 00:39:21,120
Speaker 2: that's why I was able to forgive and let go

737
00:39:21,440 --> 00:39:23,360
Speaker 2: and move on with my life, which was one of

738
00:39:23,360 --> 00:39:25,680
Speaker 2: the most important things that I could do, was take

739
00:39:25,719 --> 00:39:29,040
Speaker 2: control by forgiving and letting go through the power of

740
00:39:29,120 --> 00:39:33,000
Speaker 2: God and saying thank you, thank you for this opportunity

741
00:39:33,200 --> 00:39:36,960
Speaker 2: to the people that touched my life and made it possible.

742
00:39:37,320 --> 00:39:39,040
Speaker 1: And here I am now. I live, I have a

743
00:39:39,120 --> 00:39:40,280
Speaker 1: nice home. Jason.

744
00:39:40,680 --> 00:39:44,040
Speaker 2: You know, I got three dogs, my daughter lives with me,

745
00:39:44,600 --> 00:39:48,320
Speaker 2: and I got a sports car, and I don't I

746
00:39:48,360 --> 00:39:51,120
Speaker 2: don't ride motorcycles anymore. I rode motorcycles for years. I

747
00:39:51,160 --> 00:39:54,319
Speaker 2: love motorcycles, but I actually gave it up this year

748
00:39:54,360 --> 00:39:57,280
Speaker 2: in January and that's that's this is my life.

749
00:39:57,320 --> 00:40:00,560
Speaker 1: I I'm very very m beautiful.

750
00:40:00,760 --> 00:40:03,239
Speaker 5: Uh it's a beautiful ending. It's not an ending, but

751
00:40:03,280 --> 00:40:05,440
Speaker 5: it's a beautiful phase that you're in, I guess you

752
00:40:05,480 --> 00:40:07,680
Speaker 5: could say, with the with the three dogs and the

753
00:40:07,760 --> 00:40:12,000
Speaker 5: daughter and the and you. And it's like, uh, it

754
00:40:12,120 --> 00:40:14,600
Speaker 5: really does put a smile on my face thinking about

755
00:40:14,800 --> 00:40:18,840
Speaker 5: how how you've been able to you know, persevere and

756
00:40:19,239 --> 00:40:23,279
Speaker 5: overcome and and really triumph and build this wonderful life

757
00:40:23,320 --> 00:40:28,120
Speaker 5: for yourself. Before we wrap up, Calvin, I'm actually remembering, Uh,

758
00:40:28,320 --> 00:40:30,440
Speaker 5: you and I shared the stage one time at an

759
00:40:30,480 --> 00:40:33,439
Speaker 5: and it is Project event and this was right after

760
00:40:33,520 --> 00:40:37,440
Speaker 5: you had gone to Aspen, Colorado and you told the story.

761
00:40:37,480 --> 00:40:39,120
Speaker 5: Do you remember that story?

762
00:40:39,840 --> 00:40:40,120
Speaker 2: Oh?

763
00:40:40,200 --> 00:40:44,080
Speaker 1: Which one the one when when you and yeah, you

764
00:40:44,120 --> 00:40:45,480
Speaker 1: can remember, I remember.

765
00:40:47,640 --> 00:40:51,360
Speaker 2: I really yeah, I love to tell that story because that,

766
00:40:51,440 --> 00:40:54,200
Speaker 2: you know, that was one of the highlights since I've

767
00:40:54,239 --> 00:40:54,680
Speaker 2: been free.

768
00:40:54,880 --> 00:40:56,640
Speaker 1: That was one of the highlights.

769
00:40:56,960 --> 00:40:58,640
Speaker 2: Is that is at the top, I mean next to

770
00:40:58,760 --> 00:41:02,080
Speaker 2: you know, my daughter being barn and these events like

771
00:41:02,120 --> 00:41:04,880
Speaker 2: that which are very special because uh, you know, but

772
00:41:05,040 --> 00:41:07,760
Speaker 2: this this this was I remember I had a speaking

773
00:41:07,840 --> 00:41:11,839
Speaker 2: engagement in Aspen, Colorado. Okay, never been to Asspen, never

774
00:41:11,880 --> 00:41:14,920
Speaker 2: been to Colorado, never been skinned before in my life.

775
00:41:15,120 --> 00:41:17,000
Speaker 2: And I'm just I'm just planning to go there for

776
00:41:17,040 --> 00:41:20,000
Speaker 2: a couple of days. I remember, Uh, you and I

777
00:41:20,040 --> 00:41:23,080
Speaker 2: we spoke and you said, you said, Calvin, you can't

778
00:41:23,080 --> 00:41:25,000
Speaker 2: go to Aspen just for a couple of days and

779
00:41:25,040 --> 00:41:28,279
Speaker 2: not ski. You hold up, let me let me, let me,

780
00:41:28,360 --> 00:41:29,560
Speaker 2: let me take care of something. Let me make a

781
00:41:29,600 --> 00:41:31,759
Speaker 2: phone call. Next thing I know, you called me back

782
00:41:31,800 --> 00:41:34,440
Speaker 2: and you say, hey, you know, Calvin, you know you're

783
00:41:34,440 --> 00:41:36,520
Speaker 2: gonna stay there for for almost a week, you know,

784
00:41:36,640 --> 00:41:38,960
Speaker 2: some more, a couple of extra days, and I'm gonna

785
00:41:39,000 --> 00:41:42,239
Speaker 2: have somebody who's gonna get in touch with you, and

786
00:41:42,400 --> 00:41:45,279
Speaker 2: you're gonna go skin. And sure enough, I went out

787
00:41:45,320 --> 00:41:48,600
Speaker 2: there and a guy came and he introduced himself and said,

788
00:41:48,719 --> 00:41:51,279
Speaker 2: I'm here on behalf of Jason Flom. He took me

789
00:41:51,440 --> 00:41:53,640
Speaker 2: uh and brought me some ski gear and so forth,

790
00:41:54,000 --> 00:41:56,680
Speaker 2: and then we went to the uh with skin and

791
00:41:56,880 --> 00:41:59,600
Speaker 2: I had a private instructor, and I remember what the

792
00:41:59,600 --> 00:42:03,440
Speaker 2: private instructor he. Uh. He kept taking me back and

793
00:42:03,440 --> 00:42:06,520
Speaker 2: forth on the baby slope because this is my first

794
00:42:06,520 --> 00:42:09,040
Speaker 2: time ever skinning in my life. But I'm loving it.

795
00:42:09,440 --> 00:42:12,880
Speaker 2: And so the second day, I went, skin, I'm begging

796
00:42:12,920 --> 00:42:14,720
Speaker 2: this guy to take me to the top of the mountain.

797
00:42:15,080 --> 00:42:16,799
Speaker 2: But he's you know, he's like, man, this is just

798
00:42:16,800 --> 00:42:19,160
Speaker 2: your second day's skin, I'm not going to take you

799
00:42:19,200 --> 00:42:21,239
Speaker 2: to the top of the mountain. I said, you got

800
00:42:21,239 --> 00:42:22,640
Speaker 2: to take me to the top of the mountain. I said,

801
00:42:22,680 --> 00:42:24,120
Speaker 2: I don't know if I ever do this again in

802
00:42:24,160 --> 00:42:26,880
Speaker 2: my life. I said, this is this. I want to

803
00:42:26,920 --> 00:42:28,879
Speaker 2: go to the top of the mountain. And at that time,

804
00:42:28,920 --> 00:42:31,799
Speaker 2: I used to ride sport bikes, and I had sport bikes.

805
00:42:31,840 --> 00:42:34,320
Speaker 2: They should go zero to sixty in two seconds. And

806
00:42:34,440 --> 00:42:37,200
Speaker 2: so I'm telling this guy, said, hey, hey, man, I

807
00:42:37,280 --> 00:42:40,000
Speaker 2: ride a motorcyculd have go zero to sixty in two seconds. Now,

808
00:42:40,160 --> 00:42:41,840
Speaker 2: if I can do that, you could take me to

809
00:42:41,920 --> 00:42:43,759
Speaker 2: the top of the mountain. And so I went to

810
00:42:43,800 --> 00:42:46,280
Speaker 2: the top of the mountain and I started coming down

811
00:42:46,400 --> 00:42:48,239
Speaker 2: and when I first took off, I hit one of them.

812
00:42:48,280 --> 00:42:49,840
Speaker 2: I guess I was on one of them slopes. I

813
00:42:49,880 --> 00:42:52,359
Speaker 2: guess it was one of the higher degrees, and I fell,

814
00:42:53,520 --> 00:42:56,080
Speaker 2: but I got right back up, and then I said, okay,

815
00:42:56,239 --> 00:42:57,719
Speaker 2: I got it. This time I got to keep zig

816
00:42:57,800 --> 00:43:00,239
Speaker 2: zagging to slow myself down, and so I got up

817
00:43:00,520 --> 00:43:03,080
Speaker 2: and I kept zig zagging back and forth going down

818
00:43:03,080 --> 00:43:05,520
Speaker 2: the slope. And then when I got to the point

819
00:43:05,560 --> 00:43:08,960
Speaker 2: where I could see the bottom, I turned straight and

820
00:43:09,000 --> 00:43:11,759
Speaker 2: I just started flying. And then I can hear the

821
00:43:11,800 --> 00:43:14,720
Speaker 2: guy that instruct it behind me, hollering. He behind me, hollering,

822
00:43:14,960 --> 00:43:18,080
Speaker 2: slow down, slow down, slow down. Now I'm just flying

823
00:43:18,120 --> 00:43:20,160
Speaker 2: down the slope having a great I got the biggest

824
00:43:20,160 --> 00:43:22,040
Speaker 2: smile on my face from ear to ear.

825
00:43:22,320 --> 00:43:24,399
Speaker 1: And I get to the bottom and I don't fall.

826
00:43:24,719 --> 00:43:28,160
Speaker 2: I spend sideways and I stop, you know, and he's

827
00:43:28,239 --> 00:43:29,640
Speaker 2: behind me just shaking his head.

828
00:43:30,080 --> 00:43:31,279
Speaker 1: And I'll never forget that.

829
00:43:31,560 --> 00:43:33,880
Speaker 2: I'm so thankful to you, Jason, for giving me the

830
00:43:33,960 --> 00:43:37,120
Speaker 2: opportunity to go skin. I haven't been skinned since, but

831
00:43:37,560 --> 00:43:39,640
Speaker 2: that one time, I'll never fundy.

832
00:43:39,760 --> 00:43:42,080
Speaker 5: I actually remember, if I remember, correct me. It was

833
00:43:42,080 --> 00:43:43,600
Speaker 5: a long time ago, but I remember when you gave

834
00:43:43,600 --> 00:43:46,480
Speaker 5: that speech and you said, you said, he says, I'm

835
00:43:46,480 --> 00:43:47,919
Speaker 5: not taking you to talk about it, and you said

836
00:43:47,920 --> 00:43:50,759
Speaker 5: to him, it's slightly different than what you just told

837
00:43:50,800 --> 00:43:52,640
Speaker 5: me now. But I don't know which version is correct.

838
00:43:52,640 --> 00:43:56,120
Speaker 5: But you said, I survived sixteen years in a maximum

839
00:43:56,160 --> 00:43:59,120
Speaker 5: security prison. Take me to the top of the mountain,

840
00:43:59,280 --> 00:44:00,960
Speaker 5: and I was like, oh.

841
00:44:00,640 --> 00:44:03,960
Speaker 1: Man, yeah, yeah, I did. I said that too.

842
00:44:04,080 --> 00:44:07,600
Speaker 5: So that's a great story and I'm glad it just

843
00:44:07,640 --> 00:44:10,439
Speaker 5: came back to me. It must have been fifteen years

844
00:44:10,440 --> 00:44:13,000
Speaker 5: ago when I heard you tell that story. But Calvin,

845
00:44:13,120 --> 00:44:17,879
Speaker 5: we have a tradition at Wrong for Conviction, which our

846
00:44:17,920 --> 00:44:21,040
Speaker 5: listeners are very familiar with by now. I think it's

847
00:44:21,080 --> 00:44:23,040
Speaker 5: a lot of people's favorite part of the show. I

848
00:44:23,160 --> 00:44:25,080
Speaker 5: know it's my favorite part of the show. And that's

849
00:44:25,120 --> 00:44:28,160
Speaker 5: the part of the show where I stopped talking. And

850
00:44:28,280 --> 00:44:31,000
Speaker 5: as we wrap up and before I thank you one

851
00:44:31,040 --> 00:44:33,600
Speaker 5: final time for being here, I just want to leave

852
00:44:33,640 --> 00:44:36,440
Speaker 5: the mic on and ask you if you have any

853
00:44:36,520 --> 00:44:39,719
Speaker 5: final thoughts that you want to share with our audience.

854
00:44:40,600 --> 00:44:41,360
Speaker 1: It's all yours.

855
00:44:43,280 --> 00:44:46,480
Speaker 2: First of all, I just like to say that I'm

856
00:44:46,600 --> 00:44:50,440
Speaker 2: very thankful. I like to thank my mother and my father,

857
00:44:50,480 --> 00:44:53,720
Speaker 2: who no longer here. My father passed away in June

858
00:44:53,760 --> 00:44:57,080
Speaker 2: or this year, and that was a little bit rough

859
00:44:57,160 --> 00:44:59,960
Speaker 2: because I got to spend a lot of time with them.

860
00:45:00,200 --> 00:45:03,279
Speaker 2: I mean, I are very we were very close, and

861
00:45:03,400 --> 00:45:05,960
Speaker 2: my mother and I we were close. She passed away

862
00:45:06,000 --> 00:45:09,480
Speaker 2: back in two thousand, but they instilled in me a strength.

863
00:45:10,600 --> 00:45:12,960
Speaker 2: I used to always say, you're from good stock, You're

864
00:45:12,960 --> 00:45:15,600
Speaker 2: from good stock, and he gave me that inner strength,

865
00:45:16,080 --> 00:45:18,560
Speaker 2: and that's what helped me when I was in prison.

866
00:45:18,920 --> 00:45:21,920
Speaker 2: Despite everything, I will not let prison break me.

867
00:45:22,239 --> 00:45:22,880
Speaker 1: In prison with.

868
00:45:23,000 --> 00:45:26,600
Speaker 2: Design is designed to tear you down, destroy you, and

869
00:45:26,680 --> 00:45:29,560
Speaker 2: break you into what they want you to be, and

870
00:45:29,560 --> 00:45:31,879
Speaker 2: I wouldn't let them do it. I never allowed them

871
00:45:31,920 --> 00:45:36,520
Speaker 2: to break me. I stayed positive. There were times when

872
00:45:36,520 --> 00:45:39,520
Speaker 2: it was a little bit rough, but all in all,

873
00:45:40,040 --> 00:45:42,719
Speaker 2: you know, I believe that one day that even with

874
00:45:42,840 --> 00:45:44,919
Speaker 2: the flicker of hope was just about to go out,

875
00:45:45,120 --> 00:45:48,040
Speaker 2: that candle was about to be distinguished. I still had

876
00:45:48,040 --> 00:45:50,279
Speaker 2: that flicker of hope that one day that I will

877
00:45:50,320 --> 00:45:52,839
Speaker 2: walk out of free man. And I actually said that

878
00:45:52,960 --> 00:45:55,960
Speaker 2: on the day of my sentences, that I believe that

879
00:45:56,000 --> 00:45:58,920
Speaker 2: the truth will come out one day. I can say

880
00:45:58,960 --> 00:46:01,200
Speaker 2: thank you all day long because there's so much to think.

881
00:46:01,280 --> 00:46:04,440
Speaker 2: And those who I haven't even mentioned by name, I'm

882
00:46:04,480 --> 00:46:08,839
Speaker 2: thankful to them because, uh, there's volunteers that I don't know,

883
00:46:08,960 --> 00:46:12,000
Speaker 2: the supporters that I don't know. There's some staff members

884
00:46:12,040 --> 00:46:16,080
Speaker 2: that I don't know up at the Innocent Project. But

885
00:46:17,360 --> 00:46:19,680
Speaker 2: the project has grown so much. It was so small

886
00:46:19,719 --> 00:46:22,279
Speaker 2: when I first got out. Now it's a it's a

887
00:46:22,360 --> 00:46:25,040
Speaker 2: it's a nation. Guy has a national network, has projects

888
00:46:25,080 --> 00:46:29,000
Speaker 2: all across the world, and it's it's it's really unbelievable.

889
00:46:29,040 --> 00:46:30,719
Speaker 2: I got a chance this year to go to the

890
00:46:30,840 --> 00:46:34,080
Speaker 2: UH to the network conference and to see how it

891
00:46:34,160 --> 00:46:36,919
Speaker 2: has grown and to see that there are people there

892
00:46:36,920 --> 00:46:41,359
Speaker 2: from from different countries, and it was I'm just I'm

893
00:46:41,600 --> 00:46:43,680
Speaker 2: I'm glad to be a part of this. This this

894
00:46:43,680 --> 00:46:48,040
Speaker 2: this amazing movement that's making a difference and changing laws

895
00:46:48,640 --> 00:46:50,960
Speaker 2: and not only changing laws, but helping people to get

896
00:46:50,960 --> 00:46:54,120
Speaker 2: the life back started all over again. And that's basically,

897
00:46:54,520 --> 00:46:57,400
Speaker 2: you know, all that I can say right now is thank.

898
00:46:57,239 --> 00:46:59,800
Speaker 5: You, Calvin. I want to thank you for being so

899
00:47:00,120 --> 00:47:03,400
Speaker 5: to a great advocate and just such a great example

900
00:47:03,640 --> 00:47:07,319
Speaker 5: of human potential. And the work that we do is

901
00:47:08,080 --> 00:47:11,920
Speaker 5: you know, because of people like you, and you know,

902
00:47:12,000 --> 00:47:15,240
Speaker 5: we'll never stop. We're going to keep fighting and fighting

903
00:47:15,320 --> 00:47:18,040
Speaker 5: and fighting until there's no more fighting left to be done.

904
00:47:19,160 --> 00:47:21,520
Speaker 5: And so again, Calvin, I just want to thank you

905
00:47:21,600 --> 00:47:25,880
Speaker 5: for sharing your story here on Wrongful Conviction. I wish

906
00:47:25,920 --> 00:47:28,400
Speaker 5: you all the best. I want to thank in addition

907
00:47:28,520 --> 00:47:30,960
Speaker 5: your the ski instructor, the one that the two Day

908
00:47:30,960 --> 00:47:34,960
Speaker 5: Ski instructor Chuck Kessler for keeping you alive in spite

909
00:47:34,960 --> 00:47:37,640
Speaker 5: of the fact that you made it difficult for him,

910
00:47:37,840 --> 00:47:41,239
Speaker 5: and yeah, and anything. The last question I want to

911
00:47:41,239 --> 00:47:43,560
Speaker 5: ask you is if people want to book you for speaking,

912
00:47:44,880 --> 00:47:47,080
Speaker 5: are you still doing that? Would you like to share

913
00:47:47,120 --> 00:47:49,399
Speaker 5: an email address or a website or anything like that.

914
00:47:50,880 --> 00:47:55,440
Speaker 2: Yes, that's my email address is e x I t

915
00:47:56,560 --> 00:48:01,719
Speaker 2: O f R E e x oh free e x

916
00:48:01,840 --> 00:48:06,759
Speaker 2: I t O f R E E at yahoo dot com. Uh,

917
00:48:06,880 --> 00:48:11,360
Speaker 2: feel free to email me anytime. I'm still doing speaking engagements.

918
00:48:11,400 --> 00:48:15,600
Speaker 2: And yes, I'm available off days on Wednesday, Thursday and Friday.

919
00:48:15,719 --> 00:48:17,680
Speaker 1: I do work. I do have a job, but I

920
00:48:18,280 --> 00:48:19,880
Speaker 1: usually can fit it in audio.

921
00:48:19,880 --> 00:48:23,400
Speaker 5: So email Calvin for bookings or for advice on phishing

922
00:48:23,560 --> 00:48:24,920
Speaker 5: or anything else you can think of.

923
00:48:25,000 --> 00:48:26,600
Speaker 1: Maybe he'll even give you a ski lesson.

924
00:48:27,680 --> 00:48:29,120
Speaker 5: Calvin, thank you again.

925
00:48:28,880 --> 00:48:29,560
Speaker 1: For being here.

926
00:48:29,760 --> 00:48:32,759
Speaker 5: I look forward to seeing you again soon. And to

927
00:48:32,920 --> 00:48:37,120
Speaker 5: our audience, thank you read the book too, Exit to Freedom,

928
00:48:37,400 --> 00:48:40,440
Speaker 5: Calvin Johnson, Exit to Freedom, don't forget to order that

929
00:48:41,400 --> 00:48:44,840
Speaker 5: and uh, I'm gonna order one myself today too. So

930
00:48:46,200 --> 00:48:49,080
Speaker 5: once again, thank you to everyone for tuning in. This

931
00:48:49,239 --> 00:48:53,200
Speaker 5: has been a very special episode with my friend and

932
00:48:53,520 --> 00:48:55,200
Speaker 5: Xannerie Calvin Johnson.

933
00:48:55,280 --> 00:49:02,600
Speaker 1: Thank you, Jason, don't forget to.

934
00:49:02,520 --> 00:49:06,240
Speaker 5: Give us a fantastic review. Wherever you get your podcasts.

935
00:49:05,680 --> 00:49:06,600
Speaker 1: It really helps.

936
00:49:07,000 --> 00:49:09,880
Speaker 5: And I'm a proud donor to the Ennosnce Project and

937
00:49:09,920 --> 00:49:12,640
Speaker 5: I really hope you'll join me in supporting this very

938
00:49:12,640 --> 00:49:16,640
Speaker 5: important cause and helping to prevent future wrongful convictions. Go

939
00:49:16,719 --> 00:49:19,719
Speaker 5: to innosonsproject dot org to learn how to donate and

940
00:49:19,760 --> 00:49:22,920
Speaker 5: get involved. I'd like to thank our production team, Connor

941
00:49:22,960 --> 00:49:25,680
Speaker 5: Hall and Kevin Wartis. The music in the show is

942
00:49:25,719 --> 00:49:29,200
Speaker 5: by three time OSCAR nominated composer Jay Ralph. Be sure

943
00:49:29,239 --> 00:49:32,359
Speaker 5: to follow us on Instagram at Wrongful Conviction and on

944
00:49:32,400 --> 00:49:36,720
Speaker 5: Facebook at Wrongful Conviction Podcast. Wrongful Conviction with Jason Flamm

945
00:49:36,920 --> 00:49:40,080
Speaker 5: is a production of Lava for Good Podcasts and association

946
00:49:40,400 --> 00:49:43,239
Speaker 5: with Signal Company Number one