Speaker 1: Thank you for letting me get that off my chest. Rose,
Speaker 1: I'm I'm supposed to do it. Yeah, this is this
Speaker 1: is an unsafe space, but it is a space nonetheless
Speaker 1: welcome to. Like a version of the show where we
Speaker 1: give yesterday's pop culture today's takes. I'm Rose, damn you,
Speaker 1: and I am Fran Toronto, and we are going to
Speaker 1: give literally yesterday's pop culture today's takes because it is Monday,
Speaker 1: and we are gonna talk about the gay episode of
Speaker 1: the Last of Us. So, Fran, I was able to
Speaker 1: convince you to watch The Last of Us and you were,
Speaker 1: as you were, fully caught up. So before we even
Speaker 1: get into last night's episode, just like, what generally are
Speaker 1: you feeling about the show now that you've watched it.
Speaker 1: I am adoring it. Um. I was never like a
Speaker 1: horror movie genre buff growing up as a kid. However,
Speaker 1: my cousins and I loved the zombie genre and we
Speaker 1: thought zombie stories were so cool growing up. And I
Speaker 1: feel like I have this kind of nostalgic attachment to
Speaker 1: like old school zombie stories. And so when you told
Speaker 1: me about this show and how it's kind of bringing
Speaker 1: prestige to like a well trotted genre. I don't think
Speaker 1: I ever could have expected what came from it, and
Speaker 1: I think that this most recent episode I was able
Speaker 1: to kind of see what this show does best, which
Speaker 1: is almost make you forget that it's a zombie show.
Speaker 1: Like your zombies are used or the infected as they
Speaker 1: call them, the clickers are used very sparingly, and I think,
Speaker 1: like the best zombie media, it's more about how people
Speaker 1: react to a zombie apocalypse, how people, how humans shape
Speaker 1: society in the absence of what once existed, And from
Speaker 1: what I know about the game, because I have consumed
Speaker 1: a little content about the game that the show is
Speaker 1: based on, um, the main antagonists of the game are
Speaker 1: humans and zombies are more of like a you know,
Speaker 1: boogeyman kind of like uh like obstacle more than anything else.
Speaker 1: So so I do I do think you're You're right
Speaker 1: to note that that, like, the zombies are like kind
Speaker 1: of few and far between, and it is much more
Speaker 1: about the very human drama of it all in extreme circumstances.
Speaker 1: And also just like how terrifying and sad survival is
Speaker 1: as a concept when you're like the lat when you
Speaker 1: are the last of us, right, and so like that's
Speaker 1: what made this third episode so revelatory, which, like kind
Speaker 1: of um, departs from the main set of protagonists and
Speaker 1: shows the viewers another story that they're entangled with, which
Speaker 1: is these two like men who I guess find each other, uh,
Speaker 1: Bill and Frank played by Nick Offerman of Parks and
Speaker 1: Recreation and Murray Bartlett from season one of The White
Speaker 1: Lotus and they Bill, I mean, we've never seen Nick
Speaker 1: in a role like this, I don't think, but like
Speaker 1: Murray is so good that two of them are so
Speaker 1: good together. And it's also a story that could never
Speaker 1: have been told before, Like this is a completely original
Speaker 1: story that has a ground, like a kind of foundation
Speaker 1: in something that is extremely real and present and and
Speaker 1: like just of the moment, like I just can't even
Speaker 1: put words to it, like what did you think? Well, um,
Speaker 1: So to give a little context about the this this story,
Speaker 1: so this is actually in the game, UM, but in
Speaker 1: the Last of Us part one, the first game, Bill
Speaker 1: is a character who the the main care there's meat
Speaker 1: on their journey and apparently you it's just kind of
Speaker 1: like a throwaway moment where if you like hover over
Speaker 1: a certain thing, you see a photo of his partner
Speaker 1: who by the by the time the game happens, is
Speaker 1: already dead. Um. And the creators of the show did
Speaker 1: talk about this in the behind the Episode thing that
Speaker 1: plays on HBO once the episode is done, and they
Speaker 1: decided to expand that story um too, you know, like
Speaker 1: tell Bill and Frank's story, because I think one of
Speaker 1: them said something interesting, which is like, in adapting, they
Speaker 1: only wanted to change things if they could make them better,
Speaker 1: and this certainly does that. Um. I mean, like, I
Speaker 1: thought it was very beautiful. I also thought it was
Speaker 1: like obviously, like seeing gay love on screen is not radical,
Speaker 1: but what felt, um not, what felt exciting about it
Speaker 1: to me was that this is a show that's being
Speaker 1: watched by you know, like normy straight people who played
Speaker 1: this video game who are obsessed with it, and if
Speaker 1: they're going to want to watch the show, they're going
Speaker 1: to have to sit through watching a gay love story.
Speaker 1: And I love that. I think that's I think that's
Speaker 1: like transgressive. And I'm sure there's a lot of people
Speaker 1: who were pissed about it, but I mean the fact
Speaker 1: that they went so far and like they had this
Speaker 1: sex scene which was like like like hot but also romantic,
Speaker 1: and like beautiful and like touching because it's this older
Speaker 1: man who's never had sex with another man. I like
Speaker 1: thought was so cool, and I love how Murray Bartlett
Speaker 1: immediately clopped him immediately. It was so sexy and fun
Speaker 1: and like, as queer people watching this, we're kind of like, way, way, way,
Speaker 1: is this happening? Is this happening? And then like for
Speaker 1: just like on the line delivery, like the two of
Speaker 1: them were just giving something that is totally unexpected, like
Speaker 1: from like what the actual script is. And like, honestly,
Speaker 1: Murray Bartlett, the way you are able to say, like
Speaker 1: go take a shower, Bill, and for that to be
Speaker 1: somehow the hottest thing like that, like that could not
Speaker 1: be a better way to say, we're gonna fun. You
Speaker 1: know what I said, break up that he said. He
Speaker 1: was like that meme of the little dog that said,
Speaker 1: I know what you are. He said, go go do,
Speaker 1: go wash your ass, go wash your pussy, Billy Bartlett,
Speaker 1: the man that you are. And I, like I I believe,
Speaker 1: like I believed in their attraction to each other. I
Speaker 1: also believed that like of course, in this extreme scenario,
Speaker 1: Murray Bartlett, like he's been like wandering around the country
Speaker 1: like in the Apocalypse, Like of course, I'm sure he's
Speaker 1: thinking about like Okay, I'm gonna I'm gonna suck this
Speaker 1: guy's brain out for his dick so that I get
Speaker 1: to stay in his fortress with this like rabbit that
Speaker 1: he's cooking. And I like that part where he said, like, um,
Speaker 1: I'm not a whore, like not for lunch, no, like
Speaker 1: no matter how good it is, so like if we
Speaker 1: do this, I'm gonna stay here for another couple of days.
Speaker 1: So there is something transactional about it. But then three
Speaker 1: years later, but then it also is still really real.
Speaker 1: And what gilled me was the scene with the strawberries
Speaker 1: when into the strawberry and little giggle. Oh my god,
Speaker 1: I didn't it was so real. That was the best part.
Speaker 1: It's like they're actually they're both phenomenal actors. And like
Speaker 1: in the conversation of like gay actors and gay gay
Speaker 1: actors and gay roles whatever, like something we know I
Speaker 1: don't care about. We don't care about I mean we
Speaker 1: care about, but like not in the way that other
Speaker 1: people care about it, right, Like people have very unnuanced
Speaker 1: ideas of like who should play what, and like this
Speaker 1: is a perfect example where you have talented actors making
Speaker 1: great work. And I think that Murray Bartlett, as a
Speaker 1: gay man in this role, bringing a gay sensibility to
Speaker 1: the role created a foundation for them both to work on. Right, Like,
Speaker 1: this is how you do it. This is how you
Speaker 1: stick the landing, and you use like you you see
Speaker 1: your vision, and you also are able to bring in
Speaker 1: a phenomenal openly gay actor who's really good at what
Speaker 1: he does to like make this even more real. Um
Speaker 1: also as also as my mutual Nolan Anxious Deluxe said
Speaker 1: on Twitter, um nick Offerman is married to Megan Malally,
Speaker 1: so he is in a gay marriage and he's he's
Speaker 1: part of the community. He is he's part of the community,
Speaker 1: and that's so funny. Um. Also, like I never would
Speaker 1: have thought about this if I didn't see um the
Speaker 1: activist Peter Staley tweet about it. But like I didn't
Speaker 1: even register the kind of like metaphor of like a
Speaker 1: plague in like the story of two gay men specifically,
Speaker 1: Like but like that that the obviously it's not a
Speaker 1: ham fisted metaphor slash probably isn't even the intent of
Speaker 1: the writers, but like the fact that they're the real
Speaker 1: the realism of them choosing death together and how liberated
Speaker 1: they both felt in choosing death is so beyond beautiful.
Speaker 1: Especially you and I rose like we're morbid bitches, and
Speaker 1: like you are a very morbid girl who like might
Speaker 1: die in a cabin one day. You know what I
Speaker 1: can do today? And I feel like that for for
Speaker 1: gay men to have survived a plague and to choose
Speaker 1: death on their own terms is nothing short of a
Speaker 1: miracle in a zombie plague, let alone in our actual
Speaker 1: lived reality. It really does. That was so radical, Yeah,
Speaker 1: it really does, Like UM knowingly subvert the barrier gaze
Speaker 1: trope while still like having the game by having the
Speaker 1: gaze killed themselves. The gays buried themselves. Oh my god,
Speaker 1: I will be honest in that the end of their story,
Speaker 1: I was not quite as emotional as I had been.
Speaker 1: Like for me, the high point of their like vignette
Speaker 1: episode was the Strawberries, was was them getting attacked by
Speaker 1: the raiders UM, and then the end of it. I like,
Speaker 1: I still found it beautiful, but I also thought like
Speaker 1: there was so much, almost too much time spent on it,
Speaker 1: and it was a little like indulgent, And but I
Speaker 1: did I liked when um Murray Bartlett's character said like, um,
Speaker 1: you know, I'm not going to pretend that it's not
Speaker 1: like objectively romantic that we're dying together, and like that
Speaker 1: is it was really beautiful and also I mean it
Speaker 1: was just it was funny too, like when Maurray Bartlett's like,
Speaker 1: we're going to make friends, and like even in the
Speaker 1: Apocalypse the gays are like, we're having brunch. I don't
Speaker 1: think it. That is literally, oh my god. He's like,
Speaker 1: I've been talking to a nice lady on the radio,
Speaker 1: so fucking funny. Um, someone should give some much that,
Speaker 1: like give it a show, you know, like, yes, I
Speaker 1: met Bill and Frank had a drag night at some point,
Speaker 1: you know, like they found a way to like watch
Speaker 1: old episodes of drag Race. No, no no, no, honey, honey,
Speaker 1: new episodes. You know, Rue is still going through the
Speaker 1: zombie Okay, do you do you think? Well, because um,
Speaker 1: drag Race like would never would not have happened because
Speaker 1: the zombie Apocalypse started in two thousand three, so there's
Speaker 1: no drag Race. There's no like Marvel Cinematic Universe. Beyonce
Speaker 1: I never had a solo career, Oh my god, wait,
Speaker 1: that's so much culture. Wow, that's really depressing to think about. Um.
Speaker 1: I love imagining like this doomsday prepper, like trying to
Speaker 1: figure out a way to make lube um in the apocalypse.
Speaker 1: Um it was. I hope they just use coconut oil, right, Like,
Speaker 1: that's like the best if you're in a pinch for
Speaker 1: like butt sex. That is specifically, I have not I
Speaker 1: have not yet gone to ourchive of our own to
Speaker 1: check how much fan fiction has already been written about them,
Speaker 1: but I'm sure it's like, well, okay, let's let's see
Speaker 1: right now. Yeah, let's check right now, Okay, Bill, Bill
Speaker 1: and Frank, there's already Okay, there's twenty six works. Um,
Speaker 1: let's we'll we'll check back in next week and see
Speaker 1: how many new ones there are. Um, okay, yeah, what else?
Speaker 1: I mean? I watched a lot this weekend, I feel, Okay,
Speaker 1: tell me, what are you watching? Okay? I don't know
Speaker 1: what I was on, but I feel like I was
Speaker 1: really playing catch up because I watched poker Face, this
Speaker 1: Rihon Johnson show on People, the one with Natasha Leone, Yes,
Speaker 1: Natasha Leone, among others, so much fun. I would really
Speaker 1: be curious to know if you like it just because
Speaker 1: you're a Knives outstand but not a glass onion stand.
Speaker 1: And so we have like two different versions of Rion's work.
Speaker 1: I'm not a Knives outstand. I enjoyed the movie, but
Speaker 1: really I thought you were a true stand. I know,
Speaker 1: I really like not stop tweeting about it when it
Speaker 1: can amount, But maybe I did not. I don't think
Speaker 1: I tweeted about it that much. It was like a
Speaker 1: very popular movie that I enjoyed seeing, and that was
Speaker 1: kind of it. There is a difference between liking something
Speaker 1: and being a stand. Yes, no, you're still right, that's
Speaker 1: and and standing. To say you're a stand is slanderous.
Speaker 1: It's it's a misnomer and saying that and I am
Speaker 1: an offended place. Um. Yeah, I'm interested in watching it
Speaker 1: because from what I've heard is that the episodes are
Speaker 1: very episodic and and you can kind of like pick
Speaker 1: and choose the ones you watch. But what like, give
Speaker 1: me your like top view, sell me on it, pitched
Speaker 1: me the show. Yeah, So I mean I am a
Speaker 1: Natasha Stan, and I will say a crystal clear Stan.
Speaker 1: I adore her even if I stand, even though I
Speaker 1: don't even like Russian doll that much, but like, I
Speaker 1: just love her. Um. The show follows her a casino worker, um,
Speaker 1: getting like graveled up in getting rolled up in some controversy. Um.
Speaker 1: I guess with the people that owned the casino after
Speaker 1: they discover that she has this kind of um superhuman
Speaker 1: ability to tell if people are bluffing or not, to
Speaker 1: tell if people are are lying or not. And is
Speaker 1: it a superpower. It's not. It's not a literal superpower.
Speaker 1: She's just kind of like a human detector. Yes, it's
Speaker 1: her um Sherlock holmes Ian quality, like right, like every
Speaker 1: every SUPERI every Yes, it's kind of like every detective
Speaker 1: has a thing. Remember Cam Jansen, she had a photographic memory.
Speaker 1: She said, click, you know, Natasha Leo, like you don't
Speaker 1: remember that Cam Jansen mystery novels? Oh yes, Phoebe's entering
Speaker 1: the chat. Than this is kind of lesbian. I feel
Speaker 1: like this is kind of like lesbian canon. Is Cam
Speaker 1: Johnson okay? The Secret World of Alex Mack where she
Speaker 1: turned into a puddle? No, it was kind of like
Speaker 1: Encyclopedia Brown for people that couldn't afford a Encyclopedia Brown maybe,
Speaker 1: or like Junia b Jones in but like still some
Speaker 1: like mystery component. Um So, anyways, she gets reveled up
Speaker 1: in some controversy and it goes on the run for
Speaker 1: reasons I won't spoil. And while she's on the run,
Speaker 1: she keeps bumping into like a random miss murder mysteries
Speaker 1: across the country, and um, it's very absurdest Okay, like
Speaker 1: the fact that she keeps like stumbling upon these murders
Speaker 1: is totally silly. But when you give your way get
Speaker 1: when you give yourself to the kind of reality that
Speaker 1: they're in, we're in. She just is constantly stumbling upon
Speaker 1: these murders that she wants to solve. Um. I personally
Speaker 1: love it, and I think that the acting is fun.
Speaker 1: I think the writing is totally slapstick. I think the
Speaker 1: jokes are really good and it's not um, each episode
Speaker 1: isn't really a who done it? It's more of a
Speaker 1: ye done it? Because again very Rihan Johnson, right, they
Speaker 1: tell you who did it at the kind of in
Speaker 1: like fifteen minutes into each episode and from there Natasha
Speaker 1: walks in. It's a very interesting and I think original
Speaker 1: to tackle mysteries. So when you do watch it, because
Speaker 1: I think you will. Yeah, I'm I'm definitely interested in
Speaker 1: checking it out. Um once. I'm currently in the midst
Speaker 1: of my annual my Now annual Girls rewatch Alison Williams. Well,
Speaker 1: after that, i think I'm gonna try watching Succession because
Speaker 1: I've never watched it and I know it's coming back,
Speaker 1: and um, I'm gonna I'm gonna give it the old
Speaker 1: college try because I keep getting served TikTok's about it
Speaker 1: and about the gays that everyone ships together or like
Speaker 1: not gays whatever, they are all kind of gay. Speaking
Speaker 1: of TV shows that I watch and you don't on
Speaker 1: the flip side, Um, so, I watched this Now series
Speaker 1: finale of gossip Girl last week and I just wanted
Speaker 1: to do you care if I like spoil how it
Speaker 1: ended because you still watching? Right? No? No, no spoilers.
Speaker 1: I'm just curious, like, did the show and you don't
Speaker 1: want spoilers? No idea? No? No, sorry, sorry, sorry, I
Speaker 1: don't care about spoilers. I'm just mostly curious about was
Speaker 1: the show aware that it was getting canceled or was
Speaker 1: it a total clip? Yeah? So, um Joshua Saffron, who
Speaker 1: was the show runner, who was a writer on the
Speaker 1: original series, has said that he they originally intended for
Speaker 1: the episode to be like an hour and twenty minutes,
Speaker 1: and the last twenty minutes of it, which I'll take
Speaker 1: place in Rome, really set up a lot of things
Speaker 1: for the following season and introduced a new character, and
Speaker 1: once he kind of saw the writing on the wall,
Speaker 1: he went in and edited all that stuff out so
Speaker 1: that it was more of a closed loop at the end.
Speaker 1: So there character still is introduced, and you see a
Speaker 1: couple of things that we're probably parts of that story,
Speaker 1: but for the most part, there's on a ton of
Speaker 1: actual cliffhangers. There are definitely things that aren't resolved. But
Speaker 1: the big resolution is that Tavvy comes out as gossip
Speaker 1: Girl because Um the kids all decide that they want
Speaker 1: to take down gossip Girl, and they think that the
Speaker 1: way to do that is by trying to like steal
Speaker 1: her thunder So at the met Gala um Zoya, who's
Speaker 1: the young character, she wears a dress that says I
Speaker 1: am gossip Girl, and then they leak a story that
Speaker 1: Ryan Murphy is trying to buy the rights to for
Speaker 1: a gossip Girl TV show about Shanda Rhymes or something,
Speaker 1: and tavvy Um is like, uh, they're not taking my
Speaker 1: TV deal and shows up at Monetta tavern Um where
Speaker 1: I coincidentally had dinner with Hunter Harris who writes on
Speaker 1: the show last weekend, and Tavvy shows up and it's
Speaker 1: like there's like, um, Mr Murphy, it's to me, I'm
Speaker 1: Gossip Girl. Um wait is Ryan Murphy in it? No,
Speaker 1: because because then everyone, like all of the teens are like,
Speaker 1: oh my god, it was you because it was a setup.
Speaker 1: And the cops come slap some handcuffs on her clink clink, bitch,
Speaker 1: you're going to prison because she has all of this
Speaker 1: like kind of teeny porn on her phone because she
Speaker 1: was like cyberbullying kids and like like sexually harassed, cyber harassing,
Speaker 1: cyber sexual passing children. So so what Joshua Safron has
Speaker 1: said in some interviews is that they they kind of
Speaker 1: always knew that the teachers would not be Gossip Girl
Speaker 1: anymore post season two. Um, so they still would have
Speaker 1: been part of the show going forward, but in in
Speaker 1: like kind of diminished capacity. And there's a post credit
Speaker 1: scene at the end of the finale in which one
Speaker 1: of the teens, dad who like runs a media company,
Speaker 1: approaches one of the teachers about turning Gossip Girl into
Speaker 1: an app So that is probably what would have happened
Speaker 1: in the third season. Um, and you know it was.
Speaker 1: I'm sad it's it's gone. I really liked the reboot,
Speaker 1: even though it was definitely flawed. Um And I think
Speaker 1: what they were setting up was really interesting. I liked
Speaker 1: some of the actors. UM. I thought that the guy
Speaker 1: who played the slutty pan sexual Max was like really good.
Speaker 1: He had a very emotional moment in the finale. I
Speaker 1: really appreciated that. In the back half of this second season,
Speaker 1: they started giving um Luna, who is played by Zion
Speaker 1: whose name I can't remember, the transactress. They actually gave
Speaker 1: her a storyline. She was great. She had like a
Speaker 1: whole like thing with her mother being like, um faking
Speaker 1: being Latin X. It was very like Hilaria Baldwin vibes.
Speaker 1: So you know, rip Gossip Girl. Um, you will be
Speaker 1: missed by like twenty people probably, and um, it's definitely
Speaker 1: you know, they're still like hold like kind of holding
Speaker 1: out hope that the show might be saved, but even
Speaker 1: Joshua Saffern has said it's the show is too expensive
Speaker 1: to exist. Anywhere else. Oh, it's expensive. It's like it's
Speaker 1: the fashion, Like it's expensive in terms of production, the
Speaker 1: way it looks, the clothes, everything. And he's just said
Speaker 1: if they had to cut the budget, it just wouldn't
Speaker 1: be the same show. And he doesn't want to make
Speaker 1: a cheaper version of it. Damn. I honestly, I felt
Speaker 1: like the reboot was totally earned, like I was ready
Speaker 1: for it. It just like it wasn't. I don't think
Speaker 1: it was for me. But r I P. I'm so
Speaker 1: sorry for your loss. Another one, another one. I'm gonna
Speaker 1: be fine. I'll be okay. Now I have to pivot
Speaker 1: to shows that like won't get canceled. Oh, so you're
Speaker 1: gonna you're finally gonna watch a Fleishman in Trouble or whatever? No,
Speaker 1: are you watching Fleishman in Trouble? I watched the first
Speaker 1: two and a half episodes of Fleishman in Trouble because
Speaker 1: so many people told me to watch By so many people?
Speaker 1: Do you mean Justin told you to watch it? Because
Speaker 1: Join and I have talked about it, and I did
Speaker 1: not understand why he was watching it. I told him
Speaker 1: it looks like the most heterosexual thing possible, and that
Speaker 1: I feel like it's the kind of show that gay
Speaker 1: people like when they turn on their TV screens all
Speaker 1: that they see a static Yeah, like yeah, gay people
Speaker 1: like actually physically cannot see it. That's kind of how
Speaker 1: I felt. I'm I guess it's a mini series that's
Speaker 1: maybe based on a book question Mark. It kind of
Speaker 1: feels like it's in the normal people genre of TV,
Speaker 1: or like maybe um Elena Ferranti novel genre like Elena
Speaker 1: Ferrante like adaptations, where it's like beautiful, slow stories about
Speaker 1: human heterosexual relationships, and like you know, and I, um,
Speaker 1: I just I felt I feel duped because like in
Speaker 1: the key r of the show, like Claire Danes and
Speaker 1: Lizzie Kaplan are the only characters shown and present, And
Speaker 1: and then you click on the first episode and you're like,
Speaker 1: this is a story about how Jesse Eisenberg fucked his
Speaker 1: way across New York. And you're like, what, Yeah, that's
Speaker 1: literally Eisenberg doesn't fuck. Yes, that's what I'm saying. And
Speaker 1: I had to watch Jesse Eisenberg suck so many women
Speaker 1: in like like a few minutes, and I was like,
Speaker 1: where is Lizzie? Where is Claire? Yes, I I just
Speaker 1: I didn't understand. And the writing, Okay, I will, I
Speaker 1: will admit the writing is like really great, Like, but
Speaker 1: I it's just about subject matter that does not concern me, right,
Speaker 1: Like I don't watch things about men on principle most
Speaker 1: of the time, you know. And I felt like I
Speaker 1: came out of this being like why did I who
Speaker 1: told me that this was gonna be a good show?
Speaker 1: It was Justin? Because Justin has tested me several times
Speaker 1: after that initial conversation to tell me that he was
Speaker 1: still watching In Trouble. Oh my god, I don't. I
Speaker 1: don't get it. I I really don't, and I am
Speaker 1: I want I want these hours of my life back. Um,
Speaker 1: But so virgins don't watch Fleishman's In Trouble. I couldn't
Speaker 1: even bring it. I couldn't even bring myself to like
Speaker 1: hate watch it at that point because like it was
Speaker 1: like actually kind of good TV. It was just like
Speaker 1: subject matter that I hated and didn't want to watch.
Speaker 1: And okay, well this this is interesting. Do you often
Speaker 1: hate watch things? Oh all the time, baby, all the time.
Speaker 1: I I constantly if everyone's talking about it, I need
Speaker 1: to watch it, right, Like that's why we are different. Women. Look, Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's true. Okay, wait, this is actually very prevalent because
Speaker 1: I watched Real House Friends of West Hollywood or whatever,
Speaker 1: the real gay the Real Gay Friends of West Hollywood. Um,
Speaker 1: and so I was thinking a lot that this has
Speaker 1: proved that that nymphle Wars is right about literally everything,
Speaker 1: and they everything in the culture. They are oracles of culture. Um. Okay, wait,
Speaker 1: I have some thoughts about the wee host stuff, but
Speaker 1: like real quick, like, what's what is your philosophy on
Speaker 1: hate watching slash? You're saying you don't really do it? Yeah,
Speaker 1: I'm I don't watch things that I don't enjoy, and
Speaker 1: I don't understand why anyone would, well, because I think
Speaker 1: criticizing things is fun, and I think I personally find
Speaker 1: a lot of like I I feel satiated by watching
Speaker 1: something that other people like and then identifying why it's
Speaker 1: not good. I could that I could not could not
Speaker 1: be me and not be me. I understand, I understand,
Speaker 1: and but that that I will also stipulate is like
Speaker 1: a be true of like gay ship right, like gay
Speaker 1: and transship like ship that like is trying to be
Speaker 1: representative quote unquote of our community, which is like a
Speaker 1: fallacy and like nobody should represent anyone like that if
Speaker 1: we've like learned anything at this point so far. Like
Speaker 1: the show Real house I don't even know what it's
Speaker 1: sucking called because it's the Real Friends of we Ho,
Speaker 1: it's such a it's such a word salad, like it
Speaker 1: needs another syllable in order to mirror Real Housewives of Mamma,
Speaker 1: you know what I mean. Like, it's it's just not
Speaker 1: it's difficult, nobody can remember what it's called. Um, but
Speaker 1: it's also just obviously really bad. It's the thing is,
Speaker 1: it's not even that it's terrible. It is just boring,
Speaker 1: which is the worst thing it could possibly be. Because
Speaker 1: I did, I did try. We'll not try. But I
Speaker 1: had friends come over last week to watch drag Race,
Speaker 1: and like, of course we started watching it when it
Speaker 1: came on afterwards, of course, and it wasn't even that
Speaker 1: we were like boo throwing tomatoes at the screen. We
Speaker 1: just mind numbing it was. It was just boring and
Speaker 1: we started talking and eventually, like without even realizing it,
Speaker 1: turned it off. The same thing. Um, I was at
Speaker 1: Ryan's this past weekend. It came on after drag Race,
Speaker 1: and he was like, on the phone or something, and
Speaker 1: so I watched the first couple of minutes of it
Speaker 1: and just zoned out and was on my phone because
Speaker 1: it's boring. I agree, and I do think that boring
Speaker 1: is the thing we should be saying because to your point, Rose,
Speaker 1: and this is kind of why I want to talk
Speaker 1: about like hate watching. It's like we're actually giving this
Speaker 1: way too much energy, right, like something like the real
Speaker 1: whatevers of West Hollywood is like not even worth the
Speaker 1: hate watch, And like, yeah, I'm similar to you. After
Speaker 1: Drag Race, I watched it with a bunch of friends.
Speaker 1: We were like, let's watch and make fun of it.
Speaker 1: And while we were watching it, and I was giggling
Speaker 1: actually because it is incredibly stupid. But like while we
Speaker 1: were watching, I was like, my god, I wonder how
Speaker 1: many people are hate watching it right now, because no
Speaker 1: one in this room is enjoying the show. And is
Speaker 1: it Like I was like, is it going to get
Speaker 1: great ratings because it's so it's such a hate watch
Speaker 1: and it's not because it actually is just boring. But
Speaker 1: like I think, just to the effect of what you're saying,
Speaker 1: like this like bizarre kind of like weird hyper attention
Speaker 1: to the show and like what it means for the culture,
Speaker 1: and like all the memes it's generating, and all this
Speaker 1: stuff just like is really smelly, Like it doesn't mean
Speaker 1: anything to the culture. It's so it's so like bland
Speaker 1: and inoffensive and just it's like a nothing burgers. It's
Speaker 1: a nothing burger. It's it's not interesting. And I feel
Speaker 1: like that all the things that people are placing on
Speaker 1: top of it, all the critique, right this Vulture article,
Speaker 1: which like people were sharing on Twitter, like it's actually
Speaker 1: just like the show isn't even that bad. It's really
Speaker 1: actually just like what I'm smelling is just internalized homophobia,
Speaker 1: which is nothing new, but like we shouldn't be saying,
Speaker 1: you know, uh, these people are horrible and not even
Speaker 1: fucking famous and they're not even real friends and they're
Speaker 1: bad representation or whatever. It's like you could Real Housewives. Yes,
Speaker 1: that's what I was gonna say. We don't need any
Speaker 1: of that from the Real Housewives, like, but just need
Speaker 1: them to be interesting and exciting and fun to watch exactly.
Speaker 1: The Real Housewives are funny, magnanimous, irreplicable, Like well, Good
Speaker 1: Housewives is funny, magnanimous, irreplicable, messy, controversial and like none
Speaker 1: of these men are any of them? Well, I think no,
Speaker 1: Brad Driski is great. Tadrick Hall is like no gen
Speaker 1: Shaw level of unwatchable, Like I mean, you don't watch
Speaker 1: salt Lake. But like Tadrick is the reason why this
Speaker 1: show is like brows in itself right, and bros Is
Speaker 1: now a verb thanks to Billy Eichner, because like, what
Speaker 1: the argument to any degree when we say, like queer
Speaker 1: people need to support this and if you don't support this,
Speaker 1: then you don't support for media, It's just like such
Speaker 1: it anti intellectual. Take that as like Ti Mitchell pointed
Speaker 1: out on this podcast and tweeted about later, like so
Speaker 1: many queer representation quote unquote arguments are really just this
Speaker 1: thinly veiled way to say, like I'm not personally famous,
Speaker 1: but I should be, you know what I mean? Like
Speaker 1: that is actually like what we were watching Tadrick do
Speaker 1: online when he was writing all these like handwritten letters
Speaker 1: which were certainly handwritten by unpaid interns because there's like
Speaker 1: five different fonts on them. Yeah, it's kind of wild
Speaker 1: that like his that Tadrick's handwriting is like I think
Speaker 1: it is his handwriting because like it's he still has
Speaker 1: the handwriting of like a high school senior. Like it's
Speaker 1: like it's like bubble letters, like bubbles were like that,
Speaker 1: like you know the f the like swords that used
Speaker 1: to draw in your notebooks from the middle school. Hearts
Speaker 1: on the eyes like curls empty font like I've aid
Speaker 1: every dancer I've promised payment to curls mt. Fine, Well,
Speaker 1: all that means that he did people or he let
Speaker 1: them think they were going to get paid, and then
Speaker 1: it turned out that he had never intended to. Yeah, anyways, Um,
Speaker 1: it's all of this is coming back to say in
Speaker 1: the breath of what I felt was worth hate watching.
Speaker 1: And what I want to say about this show is
Speaker 1: that we don't need to like patently reject it because
Speaker 1: it's like bad gay representation. We can patently reject it
Speaker 1: because it's category bad and boring and contrived and like, also,
Speaker 1: we just like want to watch women, Like let's just
Speaker 1: say that, like we like we want to watch women
Speaker 1: on TV. Like gay men don't want to watch each
Speaker 1: other on TV. And I think it's because you know,
Speaker 1: a lot of them hate themselves and that's like fine,
Speaker 1: but they should work that out, like without having to
Speaker 1: write a Vulture article. You know what I mean. Yeah,
Speaker 1: the idea of reading a Vulture art cool about real
Speaker 1: friends of who just gives me hives. It literally reminded
Speaker 1: me of when the Fire Island TV show came out
Speaker 1: and that one faggot for like huff Post Gay Voices
Speaker 1: r I p Um wrote something that was like that
Speaker 1: wrote something that was about like Fire Island is like
Speaker 1: representative of gay America's moral decline, and I was like, girl,
Speaker 1: I'm sorry to a dick, yes like suck nick Offerman,
Speaker 1: smelly post apocalyptic dick. And I'm sorry to make this
Speaker 1: joke again, but I have to say again that if
Speaker 1: you are a queer person who's saying that we as
Speaker 1: queer people need to writ large like support all queer media,
Speaker 1: then you have so many Adam Lambert albums to listen to,
Speaker 1: like I'm sorry, Like you have a back catalog of
Speaker 1: you know, Randy Rainbow YouTube videos. But that one thing
Speaker 1: I would never hate watch is anything starring Sarah Michelle
Speaker 1: Gellar because I love her and she's never made a
Speaker 1: bad film or TV show in her life. I love
Speaker 1: the way you choked on that. Well, that's because she's
Speaker 1: never made up that that's because I'm trying to swallow
Speaker 1: this dried this dried mango I'm eating, I'm sure. But
Speaker 1: today we will be discussing one of her greatest contributions
Speaker 1: to culture, um Cruel Intentions, which I have watched recently.
Speaker 1: So true, True to the True, to the virgins here
Speaker 1: to represent. So the first time I ever saw Cruel Intentions,
Speaker 1: I rented it from Blockbuster and watched it with my dad,
Speaker 1: and I was it was came out, so it would
Speaker 1: have been like on home video in two thousand maybe,
Speaker 1: so I was twelve, and the last thing I wanted
Speaker 1: to be doing while watching this movie was sitting next
Speaker 1: to my dad. It's a very strange movie to watch
Speaker 1: with your parents, especially parent to you like, I have
Speaker 1: nothing in common within I could never don't know how
Speaker 1: to talk to. But your parents were not the like
Speaker 1: throw their hands in front of your eyes kind of parents. Well,
Speaker 1: my mom did used to tell me to cover my
Speaker 1: eyes during the sex scenes and then you wouldn't insects
Speaker 1: in the city and I would cover them and then
Speaker 1: kind of thing through. Yeah, yeah, my parents, yes, truly,
Speaker 1: anytime we would want what's like a movie, they made
Speaker 1: me close my eyes honestly, any any Mission Impossible movie.
Speaker 1: I have a visceral memory of the violence. You know,
Speaker 1: the sex scenes. There's always a sex scene in every
Speaker 1: Mission Impossible movie. And my parents I should be like no,
Speaker 1: and I'd be like, I want to see Tom cruises dick,
Speaker 1: So I want to suck Tom Cruise's dick. He looks
Speaker 1: the same, he's he's a vampire, like an ageless vampire. No,
Speaker 1: but he has recently he looks like he's aged a
Speaker 1: little bit. But it's been good for him. Yeah, it's
Speaker 1: been hot. I I want you know seasoned men. Also
Speaker 1: loved him when he was a twink, and I loved
Speaker 1: him when he had bad teeth before he got those
Speaker 1: you told me before he got those top and Bottom veneers, Mama, Okay,
Speaker 1: I I loved him bad teeth. But like I honestly
Speaker 1: had not thought because I famously did not see top
Speaker 1: Gun and I have not seen Tom Cruise in any
Speaker 1: recent movie. But I also I was able to clue
Speaker 1: into the fact that Tom Cruise is hot now after
Speaker 1: he did the Bloody Mary Dance. Child, he did, you
Speaker 1: should watch it. He did the Bloody Mary Dance. He
Speaker 1: loves Gaga. After after loves Gaga and he did it
Speaker 1: to support her at like and did it like outside
Speaker 1: his mansion or whatever, and he's he looks hot. Like
Speaker 1: what if they walk the red carpet together at the Oscars?
Speaker 1: Oh my god, you know that, you know that I
Speaker 1: want them to be together. I think that would be
Speaker 1: an award. I bet that would That would be the
Speaker 1: ultimate celebrity couple. To me, Tom Cruise of a person
Speaker 1: who like it's not even about if he's gay or not.
Speaker 1: It's just he's such a freak. His sexuality doesn't matter
Speaker 1: him being in a couple with Lady Gaga also a
Speaker 1: freak in in just like an opposite but parallel way.
Speaker 1: Oh my god, Oh my god, I want that so badly.
Speaker 1: It is an opposite of a parallel way. And they
Speaker 1: both are highly susceptible to cults. They're they're both um,
Speaker 1: they're both really good at the performance of celebrity right,
Speaker 1: like they both understand what being a celebrity is and
Speaker 1: like how to live and breathe at And I also
Speaker 1: think that Gaga has this like truly like biological like
Speaker 1: biological like impulse to like fall in love with every
Speaker 1: co star she's ever as so so like so like
Speaker 1: because she's like Standislavski or whatever, she just like can't
Speaker 1: help but like fall in love with like Bradley Cooper
Speaker 1: and then like Tom Cruise, even though Tom Cruise is
Speaker 1: not a co star, but like, you know, structurally, but
Speaker 1: if she had the closest thing she had, if Tom
Speaker 1: Cruise had been the star the co star of a
Speaker 1: star is born, they would they would be in a relationship,
Speaker 1: There's no question of mine. I mean her and Bradley
Speaker 1: Cooper would be in a relationship if Bradley Cooper wasn't
Speaker 1: gay but allegedly allegedly, allegedly alleged allegedly. Um yeah, but
Speaker 1: I can't wait for her to fall in love with
Speaker 1: Joaquim Phoenix. I mean it's probably already happened. It's happening
Speaker 1: right now. It's happening literally. I mean, she's not doing
Speaker 1: any press right now because she's so immersed in that movie.
Speaker 1: Is going to absolutely destroy me. Oh my god, I'm
Speaker 1: of coffee. Look at all my had such a beautiful
Speaker 1: lip color on, and now it's like now it's on
Speaker 1: your now it's all on my coffee. That's why you
Speaker 1: got to use a straw, babe, I gotta use a straw. Yeah,
Speaker 1: better for your teeth too. UM well, I forgot that
Speaker 1: we're here to talk about cruel intentions. We are here
Speaker 1: to talk about cruel intentions. UM the UM teen psycho
Speaker 1: sexual thriller, which is not um, a phrase you hear often. UM.
Speaker 1: It is a reimagining of uh Pierre code Leo still
Speaker 1: Laclos's seventeen eighty two novel Les Liaison's Don Jerroses or
Speaker 1: Dangerous Liaisons as it has also been known, But it
Speaker 1: takes that story and updates it to the elite teen
Speaker 1: prep school scene in New York City in the late nineties,
Speaker 1: sort of like an early gossip Girl. And I'm sure
Speaker 1: it had a lot of influence on gossip Girl, which
Speaker 1: we were talking about earlier. UM It's stars Um Sarah
Speaker 1: Michelle Gellar as UM, Catherine who Katherine Murty who is
Speaker 1: you know the Queen be the Blair Waldorf if you
Speaker 1: will of her you know, elite um prep scene, and
Speaker 1: then her stepbrother, Sebastian Valmont played by Ryan Philippe. They
Speaker 1: have this sort of game they play where they seduce
Speaker 1: people and destroy them for their own ships and giggles.
Speaker 1: They also Ryan PHILIPPI really wants to fuck Sarah Michelle Geller,
Speaker 1: his stepsister, and she issues him this challenge that if
Speaker 1: he fux this um new girl played by Reese Witherspoon
Speaker 1: um and destroys her, that if if he can get
Speaker 1: her to fall in love with him, because you know
Speaker 1: she would never fall for a bad boy, um, that
Speaker 1: SMG will finally fuck him in. That's sort of pseudo
Speaker 1: incest scenario. And as she tells him, you can put
Speaker 1: it anywhere, which I guess me, and he wants to
Speaker 1: suck her in the ass. Sarah, I don't know if
Speaker 1: everyone came in with the intention to like make this
Speaker 1: actually like funny, but like Sarah Michelle Geller makes this
Speaker 1: movie so funny, so being yes, it is also still
Speaker 1: sexy dangerous, like you know, gripping. I feel, Um, I
Speaker 1: don't know if this is like I'm trying to think
Speaker 1: about the source material s Stangroue or whatever, and I
Speaker 1: the virgins. Maybe you said that the virgin sound like
Speaker 1: the shot from from the Little Mermaid. Oh my god, wait,
Speaker 1: I can't wait for the live action version of that character.
Speaker 1: Who's going to play that? Friends? They probably cut it? No,
Speaker 1: Timmy Timoth a Shaley would have even that, oh my god,
Speaker 1: I would have spoken French, oh my god. But then anyways, okay,
Speaker 1: side track, side track, Um, I think that dangerous. This
Speaker 1: lion Standrew is like spoofed in Arrest Development, where they're
Speaker 1: like Michael, Sarah's character watches a movie called The Lick Cousin,
Speaker 1: the Cousins DANGERU or these like cousins fuck or whatever,
Speaker 1: and it gives it plants the seed of an idea
Speaker 1: where he's like wants to funck his like step step
Speaker 1: cousin or whatever. Um, are they I can't remember? Are
Speaker 1: they cousins, cousins in cruel intentions? Are they step cousins? No? No,
Speaker 1: they're stepbrother and step sister, step brother and step sister, right,
Speaker 1: so they're not biologically related that they're not. No, it's
Speaker 1: totally It's totally fine. It's totally totally fine. It is camp.
Speaker 1: I mean some of Sarah's line deliveries in this, like
Speaker 1: I mean when she says you can put it anywhere,
Speaker 1: when she says, I'm the Marcia fucking Brady of the
Speaker 1: Upper east Side and some times I want to kill myself.
Speaker 1: She has a she has a hollowed out cross necklace
Speaker 1: filled with cocaine that has a tidy spoon for her
Speaker 1: to do cocaine with this movie? Was I really wish
Speaker 1: that I had had this movie as a part of,
Speaker 1: you know, the small group of films that like opened
Speaker 1: up my secular awakening as we call it, along with
Speaker 1: a Mulan rouge rent Um, if your mom, if you
Speaker 1: had watch this with your mom and she'd the cross
Speaker 1: that she would ross, she would you would have had
Speaker 1: to go through an exorcism. Yes, she would have expelled. Um. Yeah,
Speaker 1: you would have shoot. There would have been a demon
Speaker 1: inside you and she would have gotten it out. But
Speaker 1: I I know, truly I I would have been I
Speaker 1: would have I would have grown up so much faster. Um.
Speaker 1: But I say that honestly because I feel like, and
Speaker 1: I don't even think I'm exaggerating when I say this,
Speaker 1: I do feel like Ryan Philippe is like ass was
Speaker 1: a pivotal moment in a lot of you know, people
Speaker 1: of Fagga experience. You know what I mean. Well, the
Speaker 1: combination of his ass while love fool by the Cardigans
Speaker 1: is playing Oh my God, I forgot that really, like
Speaker 1: was a gay awakening for so many people on so
Speaker 1: many levels. Wait, I forgot that love fool is playing?
Speaker 1: Are you serious? And it gets cut off very abruptly,
Speaker 1: this mute. This movie has a banging soundtrack, bittersweet symphony
Speaker 1: by the Verve. They put their whole pussy into that.
Speaker 1: Also the opening song Every Me and Every You, which
Speaker 1: is by Placebo. I believe Placebo, I don't know, I
Speaker 1: I honestly. Roger Cumbell, the guy that directed this, also
Speaker 1: did the sweetest thing. I love thee the best sort
Speaker 1: of like not like one of the best, like kind
Speaker 1: of um off the beaten track, like not early tooth
Speaker 1: thousands comedies that like it's kind of a if you know,
Speaker 1: you know, absurdist, totally stupid, like totally intentionally stupid. Also
Speaker 1: starring Selma Blair, who in that movie is kind of
Speaker 1: the I'm not gonna say slut of the group. But
Speaker 1: there is a scene in which a guy's dick is
Speaker 1: literally stuck in her mouth right because of the piercing
Speaker 1: Oh my god, that is such a funny scene. I mean,
Speaker 1: Cameron is also such a slot in that movie, and
Speaker 1: I think it's very liberating. Like she also she's a
Speaker 1: whole song about like how big the penises, how big.
Speaker 1: She how she loves big penises or whatever, and it's
Speaker 1: not even a musical, but then she like breaks out
Speaker 1: into song. It's kind of brilliant. It's a very strange movie. Um,
Speaker 1: but this was a strange time for movies, the late
Speaker 1: nineties early two thousands, and Cruel Intentions is certainly a
Speaker 1: product of that. I mean, it also came at um
Speaker 1: an interesting time in Sarah Michelle Geller's career because she
Speaker 1: was and she would have been two years into doing Buffy,
Speaker 1: so this was one of her like sort of infrequent
Speaker 1: side projects. So at this time, um, Buffy was already
Speaker 1: like a huge hit. Like like now we think of
Speaker 1: Buffy is the show that has this like cult following,
Speaker 1: but at the time it was hugely successful. It was
Speaker 1: Sarah Michelle Geller was everywhere, and I do think that
Speaker 1: a lot of this movie rides on her star power.
Speaker 1: And Ryan Philippie and Reese Witherspoon, Honestly, at this time
Speaker 1: we're still relative unknowns um. They also this was the
Speaker 1: film that they met on and um, they later got married,
Speaker 1: so it did bring them together. Wow, I didn't know that. Okay, wait,
Speaker 1: so wait, Reese Witherspoon was unknown when this movie came out,
Speaker 1: I had not unknown, but she wasn't like super famous.
Speaker 1: I think, I want to say Election also came out.
Speaker 1: I do feel like this was the year that Reese
Speaker 1: broke and UM. Yeah, and I'm sure that um cruel intentions,
Speaker 1: what was what really brought her to the attention of
Speaker 1: young people. And then Legally Blonde came out in two
Speaker 1: thousand and one, so that is really what solidified her fame.
Speaker 1: UM and I think this was probably like the first
Speaker 1: building block of that got it okay, okay, And I
Speaker 1: am you know, and I'm not an SMG scholar, so
Speaker 1: I appreciate the context because she really is, to me,
Speaker 1: like the anchor of this movie. Like it's it is
Speaker 1: like an ensemble cast. Um that feels like in the
Speaker 1: kind of closer genre of like you know, psycho sexual
Speaker 1: thrillers and absolutely closer closer for teens. Yes, well teens
Speaker 1: that are played by twenty six year olds, right, like,
Speaker 1: but Sara Michelle Gellar, you know, she is like Buffy
Speaker 1: is such a you know, she's a strong female character.
Speaker 1: She's a heroine. She's a good girl, but she's also
Speaker 1: very sassy. But we hadn't really seen smg play a
Speaker 1: bad girl since well, she was on a soap opera
Speaker 1: before she was on Buffy, and I'm sure she was
Speaker 1: like an evil twin or something, because you know that's
Speaker 1: how soap operas go. Um, so she got to, you know,
Speaker 1: dip her toe into playing the bad girl, and I
Speaker 1: think she fucking slays it. She played the bad girl
Speaker 1: every time, like she's so so fucking good on Buffy.
Speaker 1: She only got the chance to do that in There's
Speaker 1: there's a couple episodes and well there's one episode in
Speaker 1: season four where Buffy and Faith swap bodies. Faith is
Speaker 1: another vampire slayer who's who's evil and she and Buffy
Speaker 1: swap bodies. So Buffy gets to be a bad girl
Speaker 1: for an episode. But um, you know, Catherine is really
Speaker 1: the the evilist Sarah has ever played, except she was
Speaker 1: in this TV show called The Ringer where she played
Speaker 1: identical twins and one of them was bad. Maybe okay,
Speaker 1: So sa Michelle Geller is on a press tour right
Speaker 1: now for this new Paramount show I believe called wolf Pack,
Speaker 1: which is a spinoff of Teen Wolf, and I saw
Speaker 1: an interview in which she said that she thinks that
Speaker 1: Katherine from Cruel Intentions grown Up would basically just be
Speaker 1: her character from Due Revenge. But I also think that
Speaker 1: Catherine from Cruel Intentions grown Up would be would be
Speaker 1: um Sonja Morgan or like or just would would be
Speaker 1: a real housewife on a New York City housewife. I mean, honestly,
Speaker 1: you know who else should be a New York City housewife?
Speaker 1: Is Christine Branski? Please? Maybe maybe lou Anne is Catherine
Speaker 1: grown up Luanna? I would love to see Lunn act.
Speaker 1: She's probably so bad. You mentioned Christine Bransky. There's something
Speaker 1: there as some iconic I don't like some people who
Speaker 1: have like just a few scenes in this film. Christine
Speaker 1: Bransky is one of them. Also, tera Read in the
Speaker 1: opening scene, um because Sebastia, she's one of Sebastian's conquests
Speaker 1: and he's leaked all these nudes of her online in
Speaker 1: a sort of like revenge porn scenario, and tera Read
Speaker 1: has the iconic line, there's naked pictures of me on
Speaker 1: the internet, which relatable honestly, an oracle, she she was
Speaker 1: predicting what would be common and evident like problem in
Speaker 1: the culture of nudes leaking online. And now you know,
Speaker 1: soon we're going to be electing people to office that
Speaker 1: have leaked nudes. That's that's my dream, honestly. UM, do
Speaker 1: you okay, So when you first watched this movie was
Speaker 1: it do you remember just like latching onto it immediately?
Speaker 1: Because SMG? Did you was it a rewatch for you?
Speaker 1: Did you like watch it every day after school or
Speaker 1: I had the vhs then the DVD. I would watch
Speaker 1: them all the time. I would quote the movie all
Speaker 1: the time. I wanted to be Sarah Michelle Geller in
Speaker 1: this movie. I knew immediately that I was not a
Speaker 1: Reese Witherspoon. I was not a good girl. I was
Speaker 1: a bad girl. No, no, no. And Reese honestly cloy
Speaker 1: is cloying Lee sweet. She almost does what she does best,
Speaker 1: which is like to be good to an exhaustive degree.
Speaker 1: Like she is so pure that it's like annoying. Um.
Speaker 1: I was watching this movie with my friend. I was
Speaker 1: watching Cool Intentions with my friend for the first time,
Speaker 1: and we were marking on. There's this scene where Reese
Speaker 1: is like in a car with like that with I
Speaker 1: think Ryan Philippe, as they're like flipping and trying to yes, yes, yes,
Speaker 1: and she like starts to make she like makes the
Speaker 1: demon face. She's so she's so bad at making a
Speaker 1: goofy face. Like I actually like, if I was a
Speaker 1: director and I was watching, I was like, Reese, like,
Speaker 1: you you need to do something else, Like, oh no,
Speaker 1: I think that's you know, but I do. I just
Speaker 1: don't think she knows how to make a face that
Speaker 1: is like goofy and evil at the same time. Like
Speaker 1: I just like, I was like, clearly, it's like not
Speaker 1: in your nature to do this reeson with her spoon.
Speaker 1: I thought it was like endearing almost I'm not trying
Speaker 1: to be condescending except you, but it might not be
Speaker 1: what you're trying to do, but it's what you're doing.
Speaker 1: But it's what you're doing. Um oh some of okay,
Speaker 1: Phoebe just clude us into some of Blair and legally blonde. Yes, well,
Speaker 1: I mean some of Blair was definitely an it girl
Speaker 1: at the time that this movie came out and remained
Speaker 1: one for years. Um. She also she and Sarah Michelle
Speaker 1: Geller are lifelong friends. Um. Sarah has supported her a
Speaker 1: lot recently because elma UM a couple of years ago,
Speaker 1: uh you know, revealed that she has been dealing with
Speaker 1: a chronic illness. I believe ms UM she was on
Speaker 1: I think the most recent season of Dancing with the Stars,
Speaker 1: although they do like four of them a year, so
Speaker 1: there could have been like two more seasons since she
Speaker 1: was on it. Um she was. I don't think she
Speaker 1: was on the same season as Jojo Siwa, but I
Speaker 1: think she was on the same season as Smith Jared
Speaker 1: from Sex in the City Smith Jared, Oh my god,
Speaker 1: the one he was my favorite. Sex in the City boo. Unfortunately,
Speaker 1: this movie has an iconic same sex kiss between Sarah
Speaker 1: Michelle Gellar and Selma Blair, in which Sarah Michelle Geller is,
Speaker 1: you know, saying that girls just on each other all
Speaker 1: the time, and they have this very hot kiss. That
Speaker 1: was I think probably the thing that people remember most
Speaker 1: from this movie because it was in a pre meme world.
Speaker 1: It was a meme like it was replicated in movies.
Speaker 1: I think there's I think in one of the Scary
Speaker 1: movie films they spoof it um Sa Michelle Gellar and
Speaker 1: some of Blair one best kiss with the MTV Movie Awards,
Speaker 1: I think, and maybe even like kissed on stage. Um
Speaker 1: It's I think it's a good kiss. I it reminds me,
Speaker 1: is there like a little spit dribble, there is a
Speaker 1: little they are, Yes, it's hot. We have talked about
Speaker 1: spit kink's recently on our Disobedience episode. Yeah, I will
Speaker 1: say like when I watched it, I felt like it
Speaker 1: was it definitely was hot. It definitely did to me
Speaker 1: feel like exactly in this era of culture when like
Speaker 1: straight women kissing was this like sexual kind of phenomenon
Speaker 1: that like got boys really rowdy. Like we were kind
Speaker 1: of talking about this in our Jennifer's Body episode, but
Speaker 1: like do you remember do you remember like when you
Speaker 1: would go to like Walmart or Target whatever to like
Speaker 1: buy movie posters or like just like posters for your
Speaker 1: room and I would I would buy them a hot topic, yes,
Speaker 1: hot topic as well. But one of those posters was
Speaker 1: always those two girls and like gray like underwear or whatever,
Speaker 1: like kissing on a bed. Do you remember this image?
Speaker 1: Like oh my god? But but anyways, all I'm trying
Speaker 1: to say is like it was just like this very
Speaker 1: bizarre era of culture that like talked about lesbians and
Speaker 1: erased lesbians at the same time. It was it was
Speaker 1: it was it was lesbian is um from the male gaze,
Speaker 1: which you know, lesbians only existed in popular culture to
Speaker 1: titillate straight man, Yeah exactly. But but this I felt
Speaker 1: like was something that we could still embrace. Like it
Speaker 1: was queer, Like it was like totally like this, this
Speaker 1: I think to me, this movie, and like what it
Speaker 1: did best was like revel in hedonism, right, Like it
Speaker 1: was like this, what is the maximum bad? You can
Speaker 1: be like, well, well, revel in, revel in it, but
Speaker 1: still but cast it as evil because what we because
Speaker 1: the journey of this movie is that Sebastian starts out
Speaker 1: as a hedonist, falls in love, and then rejects hedonism
Speaker 1: and is punished for his hedonistic lifestyle because he spoiler
Speaker 1: alert dies at the end and Catherine, who sort of
Speaker 1: drove him to this, gets her come up and when
Speaker 1: all of Sebastian's diaries are our oh yeah, like uh
Speaker 1: disseminated throughout the school and so bizarre. It is a
Speaker 1: movie that but that celebrates hedonism but then takes this
Speaker 1: very puritanical view of it. And you know, the only
Speaker 1: love that is celebrated and upheld is you know, straight
Speaker 1: monogamous romantic love and and and what more could we
Speaker 1: possibly wish for than straight monogamous romantic love. And that's
Speaker 1: what that's the reason I'm on tender Babe. Yeah, I mean,
Speaker 1: I know, like heterosexually. I know, I'm aware that, like
Speaker 1: as you adjust your legs, I'm aware that like heterosexuality
Speaker 1: is like slowly but surely becoming like illegal in this country,
Speaker 1: like with hope, like it will be like a criminal offense, um,
Speaker 1: one day, but lock them up. For now, I will
Speaker 1: be practicing heterosexuality to the fullest extent that I can. Um. Interesting, Yeah,
Speaker 1: I love being heterosexual. Um. Oh, you know what it's not.
Speaker 1: It's not scary movie that parodies the this It's not
Speaker 1: another teen movie? Which did you ever watch that? No?
Speaker 1: Was it? It seemed like I always like was horny
Speaker 1: whenever I saw it in Blockbuster it made me horney.
Speaker 1: So not another teen movie? Is there was? After the
Speaker 1: successive scary movie, there was a string of these sort
Speaker 1: of spoof films for different genres. The first of them,
Speaker 1: and I think most successful, was not another teen movie,
Speaker 1: which was Chris Evans's breakout role. Right. He plays the
Speaker 1: like Jock you know, main character who is like half
Speaker 1: Freddie Prince Jr. And she's all that and half Ryan
Speaker 1: Phillippi and cruel intentions. He has like a similar thing
Speaker 1: with his stepsister where he wants to suck her. Um
Speaker 1: and um, there is a scene of the lesbian kiss
Speaker 1: and they like go really in on the spit thing
Speaker 1: and it's like to a gross level that actually sounds
Speaker 1: really funny. Um, I kind of want to watch that now. Um.
Speaker 1: It's but it's a good movie. I used to watch
Speaker 1: it a lot. I had it on DVD, and I
Speaker 1: used to watch it a lot, and it was I
Speaker 1: had a teen crush on Chris Evans because of it. Well,
Speaker 1: I think the teen genre in general, like in the
Speaker 1: vein of cruel intentions or whatever else you want to
Speaker 1: pull into it, Like I think it's like endlessly entertaining
Speaker 1: to revisit. Like I watched a lot of Riverdale, Like
Speaker 1: I've watched four seasons, like four full seasons of Riverdale, right,
Speaker 1: like I've I think teen ship and the exaggeration of
Speaker 1: like how bad teen lives can be. Like by bad,
Speaker 1: I mean like how um daring controversial, Irreverend you can
Speaker 1: be like in this kind of like hot topic air
Speaker 1: of culture is like so funny to look at now,
Speaker 1: Like I've actually never seen the movie, um, thirteen, but
Speaker 1: that's kind of in this genre and you have to
Speaker 1: watch thirteen. Oh my god, No, you're not allowed to
Speaker 1: say that because you don't understand the context. I've seen
Speaker 1: the scene on YouTube and I feel, but you need
Speaker 1: to watch the whole movie. Thirteen is so incredible. It
Speaker 1: inspired me to huff as a teenager. It's inspired NA,
Speaker 1: you need like barbitual barbituates or whatever, like you wanted
Speaker 1: to like like Judy like and like um like whipp
Speaker 1: it's with um whipped cream cans with it, you know. Today,
Speaker 1: Like I know, we were just talking about Gossip Girl
Speaker 1: and how I liked the reboot. But for the most part,
Speaker 1: I can't watch media about teenagers. We have discussed this
Speaker 1: at length. It's the reason why I don't want euphoria. Um.
Speaker 1: But you know, like things like Euphoria and gossip Girl
Speaker 1: truly would not exist without cruel intentions. It is the blueprint,
Speaker 1: I think, so yeah, or maybe also I actually have
Speaker 1: never seen like Dawson's Creek, but like, are any of
Speaker 1: those shows like Dawson's Creek O C Like is that
Speaker 1: era of TV? Also this kind of like teens being
Speaker 1: like murderous drug dealers or whatever, like no, no, Dawson's Creek.
Speaker 1: I didn't watch Dawson's Creek, but I believe Dawson's Creek
Speaker 1: is much more um, it doesn't reach that level. It's
Speaker 1: much more like interpersonal drama, like family drama. UM. And
Speaker 1: I also didn't watch The o C. But I know
Speaker 1: the O C is like not quite at that level.
Speaker 1: I think Gossip Girl is kind of where we started
Speaker 1: seeing um, where we got the most of teens behaving
Speaker 1: like adults and specifics specifically because of their access to
Speaker 1: our proximity to wealth. M Oh okay, yeah, wait, how
Speaker 1: does wealth kind of exist in cruel intentions? I guess
Speaker 1: just well, they're all they're all very wealthy, you know.
Speaker 1: They they have unlimited resources and no parental supervision, so
Speaker 1: they are Yeah, it's the no parental surround, that's the
Speaker 1: big thing. It's like, the richer you are, the less
Speaker 1: parent involvement you have in your day to day. That
Speaker 1: was the one difference on Gossip Girls that their parents
Speaker 1: were someone in the original Gossip Girl is that their
Speaker 1: parents were someone involved and the parents were actual characters
Speaker 1: on the show who had their own romantic dramas and
Speaker 1: like their own plot lines. But you know, for the
Speaker 1: most part, the kids did act like adults. They were
Speaker 1: like going clubbing and like having these like making these
Speaker 1: like grand schemes that were obviously like in a way
Speaker 1: fueled by being teenagers, being dumb teenagers with like raging hormones.
Speaker 1: But because they had unlimited resources, they could you know,
Speaker 1: can cause to these like elaborate schemes and behave like
Speaker 1: you know, um eighteenth century aristocrats having you know, like
Speaker 1: um intrigues. Yeah, honestly, I mean like it was I
Speaker 1: think that like experiencing even though I didn't see cruel
Speaker 1: intentions as a kid, Like when this like genre of
Speaker 1: kind of like TV films whatever was like coming through,
Speaker 1: I feel like I could attach. I feel like it
Speaker 1: was so aspirational to me. This is like really dark.
Speaker 1: But like I, you know, was a very unhappy kid.
Speaker 1: I did not enjoy my childhood, and a lot of
Speaker 1: that had to do with my parents. And so these
Speaker 1: lives without parents, which I think are are present and
Speaker 1: a lot of like teena and kid you know, like
Speaker 1: things like I, you know, I wanted that so bad.
Speaker 1: I wanted a life without parental supervision. I wanted a
Speaker 1: life for my own, and they would give us this
Speaker 1: fantasy where in kids were like teens were fully capable
Speaker 1: of doing it. We're in reality, it's like teens actually
Speaker 1: do still behave like children, like none of them actually
Speaker 1: act like this, and so you know, it was a fantasy,
Speaker 1: but I loved that ship. Oh you know, what we
Speaker 1: do have to talk about is the gay stuff and
Speaker 1: cruel intentions. Joshua Jackson of Dawson's Creek Fame plays Sebastian's
Speaker 1: gay friend who helps him in trap Betty's boss from
Speaker 1: Ugly Betty Daniel into being outed as gay. So that
Speaker 1: so that so that Ryan Phillippe can use him to
Speaker 1: like get get into Reese Witherspoon's good graces. Oh my god,
Speaker 1: I forgot that Daniel meat. Is this dick and cock
Speaker 1: sucking dick and cock? Absolutely? Um yeah, I mean gay blackmail,
Speaker 1: bring it back. Seriously, we're about we're to like cancel culture,
Speaker 1: like like representation matters to have that kind of fashion blackmail.
Speaker 1: We do Fran blackmail and would blackmail you any day.
Speaker 1: Oh my god, thank you. I would love to blackmail you.
Speaker 1: I would love to out you as trans I mean
Speaker 1: thank you. I think we how we have both emotionally
Speaker 1: blackmailed each other somewhat successfully. You know that can't be true.
Speaker 1: It's true, And you know what, I think that's beautiful.
Speaker 1: I think and I think that's beautiful. Um wow. I mean,
Speaker 1: like I honestly like I'm I felt like when I
Speaker 1: watched this movie, I was like watching it through your eyes?
Speaker 1: Can I say that? Like, because we got my eyes
Speaker 1: they're gone. The virgins at home can't see, but the
Speaker 1: roses eyes are now gushing blood. They're now gone. And
Speaker 1: I'm like the Corinthian from Sandman. I just have little teeth.
Speaker 1: You're giving pans labyrinthy, your eyes are on your hands.
Speaker 1: Um No. I was just gonna say, like, because we've
Speaker 1: been doing the show for a while and because you know,
Speaker 1: I'm the version so to speak, when I like in
Speaker 1: these you know, in our in the episodes that we've
Speaker 1: released so far, Like you know, I'm not always the virgin.
Speaker 1: We like to just talk about what we like to
Speaker 1: talk about. But when I am the virgin, I feel,
Speaker 1: you know, I'm always just like, oh, I wonder what, like,
Speaker 1: like I wonder how Rose would think about this scene?
Speaker 1: You feel I feel close to you anytime I can
Speaker 1: see something like this. This very this is a kind
Speaker 1: of Rose movie to me movie, this movie was incredibly
Speaker 1: formative to my personality. I wanted to be Catherine. I
Speaker 1: wanted to be an evil, manipulative bitch who would funk
Speaker 1: her step brother, blackmail people, destroy their crucifix, and snort
Speaker 1: cocaine out of my holida out crucifix. Please let in
Speaker 1: to our d m s at like a virgin tell us,
Speaker 1: do you want to suck your stepbrother? Um? Have you ever?
Speaker 1: Have you ever blackmailed someone for being gay? And what
Speaker 1: is your favorite? Um? Sarah Michelle Geller Media Property. Wait wait, wait,
Speaker 1: I actually would love to know the answer to those
Speaker 1: first two questions of any other virgins. Share we're at
Speaker 1: We're being fully serious and we will um. We won't
Speaker 1: let your messages after you send them, but we won't
Speaker 1: use them against you. We won't. Next week we will
Speaker 1: be back with a discussion on Dolly parton the woman,
Speaker 1: the myth, the legend. Um. So uh you know join
Speaker 1: us for that yehaw. You can um connect with us
Speaker 1: on Instagram like a virgin. UM. My handles at Rose Damn.
Speaker 1: You can follow me anywhere online there and I'm Fran toato.
Speaker 1: You can find me at friends Squish to go anywhere
Speaker 1: you like. Like a virgin ism I radio production. Our
Speaker 1: producers Phoebe Unter, with support from Lindsay Hoffman and Nikki Etre.
Speaker 1: Until next week. It's a bitter sweet symphony that's live
Speaker 1: trying to make and meet your slave too money to
Speaker 1: you die. Do Do Do Do Do Do Do Do
Speaker 1: Do Do Do Do Do Do Do. Why did I
Speaker 1: sing that as if I was the lead singer of
Speaker 1: nickel Back, I well, you're kind of yeah, there is
Speaker 1: a kind of nickelbacking on quality. There's photo but it
Speaker 1: also kind of sounds like Ganga, Like you know how
Speaker 1: Ganga sometimes goes like full Nickelback and she's like you
Speaker 1: know what I mean? Um oh oh, I know what
Speaker 1: you mean. I do