1 00:00:04,840 --> 00:00:06,680 Speaker 1: Someone had told me a month ago I'd end up 2 00:00:06,680 --> 00:00:08,720 Speaker 1: in a jail cell after my best friend pulled a 3 00:00:08,760 --> 00:00:11,680 Speaker 1: gun on me and admitted she had caused my sister's eyes. 4 00:00:12,280 --> 00:00:15,120 Speaker 1: I would have left my ass off. It would have 5 00:00:15,160 --> 00:00:18,400 Speaker 1: been too crazy even for fiction. But now that I'm 6 00:00:18,400 --> 00:00:21,840 Speaker 1: currently living that exact reality, there's not one amazing thing 7 00:00:21,880 --> 00:00:25,880 Speaker 1: about it. Owen said it best. There is a sad 8 00:00:26,000 --> 00:00:28,080 Speaker 1: kind of irony about me being on the other side 9 00:00:28,080 --> 00:00:31,760 Speaker 1: of the law. Trespassing is a misdemeanor at the very least, 10 00:00:31,760 --> 00:00:34,800 Speaker 1: felony at the worst. I'll be lucky if I ever 11 00:00:34,840 --> 00:00:39,280 Speaker 1: passed another security clearance. What was I thinking? In my mind? 12 00:00:39,320 --> 00:00:42,400 Speaker 1: I keep rewinding that last scene of the train station, 13 00:00:42,680 --> 00:00:45,400 Speaker 1: Poppins picking up the gun and pointing it at Officer Corey, 14 00:00:46,200 --> 00:00:49,199 Speaker 1: who then shot him first. The bullet went right through 15 00:00:49,200 --> 00:00:51,440 Speaker 1: his shoulder, but Poppins cried and screamed so much I 16 00:00:51,479 --> 00:00:56,240 Speaker 1: thought he was dying. Eventually, Corey's backup arrived and a 17 00:00:56,240 --> 00:00:59,440 Speaker 1: paramedic came to pick up Poppins. All three of us 18 00:00:59,480 --> 00:01:04,040 Speaker 1: were arrest did. The weirdest part was the fact that 19 00:01:04,080 --> 00:01:16,720 Speaker 1: nobody could find the gun. Poppins have pointed out, He's 20 00:01:16,720 --> 00:01:20,080 Speaker 1: gonna have y'all take no step back, lad it's her, 21 00:01:20,680 --> 00:01:23,840 Speaker 1: my so called friend. They took her out of the 22 00:01:23,840 --> 00:01:27,120 Speaker 1: cell hours ago, and now she's back. How can she 23 00:01:27,200 --> 00:01:29,240 Speaker 1: keep that smug look on her face when it's so 24 00:01:29,280 --> 00:01:33,400 Speaker 1: clear we're all unbelievably screwed? Are you still going to 25 00:01:33,480 --> 00:01:36,760 Speaker 1: ignore me? Even in this tiny cell? We have nothing 26 00:01:36,800 --> 00:01:40,120 Speaker 1: to talk about? Flappings is okay? In case you were wondering, 27 00:01:40,360 --> 00:01:43,120 Speaker 1: that's supposed to be funny. He's an idiot who almost 28 00:01:43,120 --> 00:01:45,560 Speaker 1: got us all killed. I hate to tell you this, 29 00:01:45,640 --> 00:01:48,120 Speaker 1: but you did not mask the test good. Your little 30 00:01:48,120 --> 00:01:50,640 Speaker 1: anarchy club sucks. Maybe you should keep your voice down 31 00:01:51,040 --> 00:01:54,120 Speaker 1: you see any of these zombies here are listening? When 32 00:01:54,160 --> 00:01:57,560 Speaker 1: did you become like this? Like what? You're like a 33 00:01:57,640 --> 00:02:00,000 Speaker 1: cross between an h O, a manager in a library, 34 00:02:00,200 --> 00:02:03,040 Speaker 1: and hard to believe you and Savenna are even related. 35 00:02:03,400 --> 00:02:06,400 Speaker 1: Don't talk about Savanna after what you did. Savennah was 36 00:02:06,440 --> 00:02:09,400 Speaker 1: not some helpless victim to be manipulated. She was a 37 00:02:09,440 --> 00:02:12,280 Speaker 1: grown ass woman with strong reliefs. Give her some credit. 38 00:02:13,080 --> 00:02:14,920 Speaker 1: At least she tried to use her lights gat privilege 39 00:02:14,919 --> 00:02:17,560 Speaker 1: for good, not evil. Sure, make it about colorism now, 40 00:02:19,280 --> 00:02:22,920 Speaker 1: So when did you become like this? Me? I've been 41 00:02:22,960 --> 00:02:26,240 Speaker 1: the same from day one. Baby, Oh you've changed. You 42 00:02:26,360 --> 00:02:29,600 Speaker 1: used to be just a normal, opinionated afrocentric say it loud, 43 00:02:29,600 --> 00:02:32,239 Speaker 1: I'm black and I'm proud Berkeley grab and now you're 44 00:02:32,280 --> 00:02:34,640 Speaker 1: like the ringleader of random white people do a fucked 45 00:02:34,680 --> 00:02:37,600 Speaker 1: up ship? You please stop talking so about it down. 46 00:02:38,080 --> 00:02:39,760 Speaker 1: How do you even have the nerve to say something 47 00:02:39,840 --> 00:02:42,800 Speaker 1: so stupid? You really have no clue how funked up 48 00:02:42,840 --> 00:02:45,840 Speaker 1: the institutions you take for granted her, as if wearing 49 00:02:45,840 --> 00:02:48,200 Speaker 1: a shiny badge makes you immune from being capable of 50 00:02:48,200 --> 00:02:52,560 Speaker 1: outright terrorism. This isn't just about ally SHIP or BLM 51 00:02:52,639 --> 00:02:57,480 Speaker 1: or forcing the masses to recognize white privilege, not anymore so. 52 00:02:57,560 --> 00:03:00,520 Speaker 1: To answer your stupid question, let me ask you a question. 53 00:03:02,360 --> 00:03:05,639 Speaker 1: Al right, go, when you were in the FBI, assuming 54 00:03:05,680 --> 00:03:09,000 Speaker 1: you're no longer in the FBI, did they tell you 55 00:03:09,040 --> 00:03:11,400 Speaker 1: how many black people could congregate together before they were 56 00:03:11,440 --> 00:03:15,960 Speaker 1: considered a domestic threat? Oh? Come on, I'm serious? Was 57 00:03:16,000 --> 00:03:20,640 Speaker 1: it five forty? With that logic, the FBI would consider 58 00:03:20,680 --> 00:03:24,760 Speaker 1: every black church a terrorist organization. Fair point, But let's 59 00:03:24,760 --> 00:03:27,520 Speaker 1: face it, turning the other cheek isn't really conducive to 60 00:03:27,560 --> 00:03:30,480 Speaker 1: the pursuit of justice. So what's your point that the 61 00:03:30,560 --> 00:03:33,519 Speaker 1: FBI is a racist organization. It's a little more settled 62 00:03:33,520 --> 00:03:35,920 Speaker 1: than that, and you know it. The FBI is a 63 00:03:35,920 --> 00:03:39,960 Speaker 1: fear based organization, fear of black retribution. So it's safer 64 00:03:40,000 --> 00:03:42,800 Speaker 1: for me to identify as an anarchist than a black nationalist. 65 00:03:43,320 --> 00:03:45,920 Speaker 1: I'm less likely to be investigated by your people. When 66 00:03:45,920 --> 00:03:49,440 Speaker 1: I surround myself with various types of people. It confuses 67 00:03:49,440 --> 00:03:51,680 Speaker 1: them when they can't categorize a person based on their race. 68 00:03:51,840 --> 00:03:55,640 Speaker 1: Agents at the FBI follow their noses. There's no conspiracy 69 00:03:55,760 --> 00:03:59,240 Speaker 1: or bias based on race. White supremacist groups received the 70 00:03:59,280 --> 00:04:04,600 Speaker 1: same treatment January six. If I didn't know what a 71 00:04:04,600 --> 00:04:07,920 Speaker 1: conniving bit you are, you're naivete would almost be cute. 72 00:04:08,240 --> 00:04:10,200 Speaker 1: And if I didn't know what a budding baby terrace 73 00:04:10,320 --> 00:04:12,160 Speaker 1: you are, I'd say you're anger would almost be just 74 00:04:12,280 --> 00:04:15,520 Speaker 1: Ay was a white supremacist. If stopping these people was 75 00:04:15,560 --> 00:04:17,560 Speaker 1: a priority, how is it that he's been able to 76 00:04:17,600 --> 00:04:20,760 Speaker 1: infiltrate a major police department in an urban city. You 77 00:04:20,800 --> 00:04:23,479 Speaker 1: can't stop every single bad guy out the information we 78 00:04:23,520 --> 00:04:25,960 Speaker 1: have on him, it's not hard to find. We found 79 00:04:25,960 --> 00:04:28,279 Speaker 1: out pretty easily, and we're not professionals. With training in 80 00:04:28,320 --> 00:04:31,480 Speaker 1: background checks. Not hard to trace someone social media is, 81 00:04:31,600 --> 00:04:36,240 Speaker 1: so she is in background. It's not fair. I get it. 82 00:04:36,880 --> 00:04:42,279 Speaker 1: The system isn't perfect, right, that's the problem. We give 83 00:04:42,320 --> 00:04:44,640 Speaker 1: these institutions the benefit of the doubt, Yet we don't 84 00:04:44,640 --> 00:04:47,360 Speaker 1: extend the same courtesy to our imperfect citizens, who are 85 00:04:47,400 --> 00:04:55,640 Speaker 1: the products of the imperfect system. Yes, come on, what 86 00:04:56,360 --> 00:05:01,640 Speaker 1: but let's go. Go on. By the way, you're well, 87 00:05:02,720 --> 00:05:04,479 Speaker 1: you know, if your current gig doesn't work out, you 88 00:05:04,480 --> 00:05:07,159 Speaker 1: ought to see if there's an opening a quantico. I'll 89 00:05:07,200 --> 00:05:12,159 Speaker 1: take that as a compliment, just this once. Needless to say, 90 00:05:12,920 --> 00:05:18,440 Speaker 1: my days of freelance leading are over. I don't know 91 00:05:18,480 --> 00:05:20,520 Speaker 1: how Rebecca managed to pull this off, but I am 92 00:05:20,560 --> 00:05:28,680 Speaker 1: so over these surprises. Is she taking the fall? What 93 00:05:28,760 --> 00:05:38,000 Speaker 1: about Owen? All right, here are your belongings. I need 94 00:05:38,040 --> 00:05:41,920 Speaker 1: you to sign these forms and you're out. I'm not 95 00:05:41,960 --> 00:05:45,240 Speaker 1: being charged with anything, not that I know of. What 96 00:05:45,279 --> 00:05:48,839 Speaker 1: about the cop who arrested us? Look, you're not being charged. 97 00:05:48,880 --> 00:05:55,360 Speaker 1: How about you? Let that be enough? Sign here? Grandma? 98 00:05:55,960 --> 00:05:57,839 Speaker 1: What are you doing here? What do you think I'm 99 00:05:57,839 --> 00:06:01,479 Speaker 1: doing here? Girl? Let's go. I have no desire to 100 00:06:01,480 --> 00:06:05,400 Speaker 1: stand around here. My grandmother is the last person I 101 00:06:05,400 --> 00:06:09,000 Speaker 1: want to see right now, after everything she's been through 102 00:06:09,000 --> 00:06:15,960 Speaker 1: with Savannah, she shouldn't have to worry about me too, Hey, 103 00:06:17,000 --> 00:06:24,200 Speaker 1: stay out of trouble on his hands now, there wasn't 104 00:06:24,240 --> 00:06:27,520 Speaker 1: anything close by. I parked a couple of blocks away. 105 00:06:28,000 --> 00:06:31,880 Speaker 1: It took me twenty minutes to find a spot. Downtown 106 00:06:31,880 --> 00:06:35,760 Speaker 1: Elk isn't what it used to be. Sorry, Yeah, you 107 00:06:35,880 --> 00:06:38,320 Speaker 1: must be. I'd be sorry too if I were you, 108 00:06:38,560 --> 00:06:42,200 Speaker 1: really sorry, I had no idea. First you come home 109 00:06:42,200 --> 00:06:44,080 Speaker 1: with a dentist car, and now I'm picking you up 110 00:06:44,080 --> 00:06:47,799 Speaker 1: from the police station. Are you spoken weed again, Rebecca? 111 00:06:48,000 --> 00:06:50,880 Speaker 1: She's no, No, you don't. I don't even think about 112 00:06:50,880 --> 00:06:54,640 Speaker 1: bringing Rebecca into this. You look, you are not fourteen, 113 00:06:54,800 --> 00:06:57,280 Speaker 1: and you can't excuse yourself by blaming your friends. But 114 00:06:57,440 --> 00:06:59,880 Speaker 1: you don't understand she's the reason Savannah is that He 115 00:07:00,320 --> 00:07:03,920 Speaker 1: that maybe the Savannah bears the ultimate responsibility for her 116 00:07:03,920 --> 00:07:06,600 Speaker 1: own actions, just like you do. This is more than 117 00:07:06,640 --> 00:07:10,200 Speaker 1: just Savannah. Rebecca is involved in some deep, crazy stuff 118 00:07:10,280 --> 00:07:14,120 Speaker 1: like what well, I'm not exactly sure, but it involves 119 00:07:14,200 --> 00:07:18,000 Speaker 1: the police and the fires and Antifa or anarchy. They're 120 00:07:18,120 --> 00:07:21,640 Speaker 1: very vague about what it is they do. Rebecca is 121 00:07:21,680 --> 00:07:24,360 Speaker 1: paying the bill for in home care. She raised the 122 00:07:24,360 --> 00:07:27,080 Speaker 1: money for your sister. That doesn't sound like anarchy to me. 123 00:07:27,400 --> 00:07:30,120 Speaker 1: That's true, and I'm starting to suspect she might be 124 00:07:30,160 --> 00:07:33,520 Speaker 1: a sociopath. I don't know why you think this is 125 00:07:33,520 --> 00:07:36,720 Speaker 1: a joke. You're missing with your future here. No one 126 00:07:36,880 --> 00:07:39,720 Speaker 1: is taking this more seriously than I am. Graham. This 127 00:07:39,840 --> 00:07:42,080 Speaker 1: isn't what I expected to happen when I came back here. 128 00:07:42,200 --> 00:07:45,080 Speaker 1: You're not helping me or yourself by staying in Oakland, 129 00:07:46,000 --> 00:07:49,520 Speaker 1: certainly not helping Savannah. I think you should go back 130 00:07:49,520 --> 00:07:52,840 Speaker 1: to the academy Grant. I can't. It doesn't work that way. 131 00:07:52,880 --> 00:07:58,440 Speaker 1: They'll understand. Just explain everything to them. No, well, you 132 00:07:58,520 --> 00:08:03,520 Speaker 1: can't stay here. It's a bad influence on and these 133 00:08:03,600 --> 00:08:05,480 Speaker 1: days the only people who stay in old learned people 134 00:08:05,480 --> 00:08:08,920 Speaker 1: who aren't really from here, are people who are trapped here. Correctly, 135 00:08:09,440 --> 00:08:13,280 Speaker 1: Grandma's family is Louisiana Creo, and she's always carried superstitious 136 00:08:13,280 --> 00:08:17,960 Speaker 1: notions with her growing up. It should be crazy because 137 00:08:17,960 --> 00:08:20,040 Speaker 1: she was usually right. I guess I'm stuck here that 138 00:08:21,560 --> 00:08:24,120 Speaker 1: so you're content to be the shadow little ghost? Is 139 00:08:24,120 --> 00:08:27,440 Speaker 1: that what you think of Savannah? A ghost? She's not 140 00:08:27,520 --> 00:08:31,160 Speaker 1: coming back Bulla. People wake out of comas all the time. Sure, 141 00:08:31,240 --> 00:08:33,920 Speaker 1: it's rare, but I think it could be possible. It's not. 142 00:08:34,920 --> 00:08:38,760 Speaker 1: Statistically speaking, it isn't possible. Since when do you care 143 00:08:38,800 --> 00:08:46,720 Speaker 1: about statistics? What about faith? Bullah, It's common sense. Savannah 144 00:08:46,720 --> 00:08:48,920 Speaker 1: asked me not to tell anyone, but Grandma should know. 145 00:08:49,559 --> 00:08:54,240 Speaker 1: She deserves to know. She did. She did wake up. 146 00:08:54,400 --> 00:08:58,000 Speaker 1: It's impossible. It was only for a little while. She 147 00:08:58,080 --> 00:09:00,600 Speaker 1: came to and she told me everything. I have no 148 00:09:00,679 --> 00:09:02,520 Speaker 1: doubt that you spoke to her, But she did not 149 00:09:02,600 --> 00:09:08,600 Speaker 1: tell you anything. She did. No, No, I heard you 150 00:09:08,640 --> 00:09:11,440 Speaker 1: that day in her room, Bulah. Wasn't nobody in there 151 00:09:11,440 --> 00:09:15,600 Speaker 1: talking about you? What Grandma? She told me how Rebecca 152 00:09:15,760 --> 00:09:19,000 Speaker 1: was behind everything. Maybe you wanted to believe it so 153 00:09:19,040 --> 00:09:22,840 Speaker 1: bad that I don't know you hallucinated. I'm not crazy. 154 00:09:23,080 --> 00:09:27,559 Speaker 1: I didn't say that. Sometimes even I think I can 155 00:09:27,600 --> 00:09:31,240 Speaker 1: hear her. But we've got to be realistic. Since when 156 00:09:31,240 --> 00:09:36,680 Speaker 1: has anyone accused me of being unrealistic? Please go live 157 00:09:36,720 --> 00:09:39,199 Speaker 1: your life. You've been here less than three weeks and 158 00:09:39,240 --> 00:09:43,439 Speaker 1: you're already in trouble. I have this awful feeling that 159 00:09:43,480 --> 00:09:45,719 Speaker 1: if you say something bad is going to happen to you. 160 00:09:46,720 --> 00:09:50,960 Speaker 1: I just can't lose you both. Not like this, Fine, 161 00:09:52,400 --> 00:09:55,559 Speaker 1: I'll think about it. Maybe I can make some calls 162 00:09:55,600 --> 00:09:59,600 Speaker 1: to see if they'll take me in next year's class. Honestly, 163 00:09:59,640 --> 00:10:02,520 Speaker 1: I don't mind being back in Oakland, despite the drama 164 00:10:02,559 --> 00:10:06,120 Speaker 1: with Rebecca. I know grand things to step down, but 165 00:10:07,120 --> 00:10:09,280 Speaker 1: being close to Savannah is the only thing that feels 166 00:10:09,440 --> 00:10:13,080 Speaker 1: right at this point in my life. But deep down 167 00:10:13,120 --> 00:10:17,199 Speaker 1: I also know she's right. Being here as an adult 168 00:10:18,240 --> 00:10:23,800 Speaker 1: has been an out of body experience. If you look 169 00:10:23,960 --> 00:10:27,240 Speaker 1: get in the car, what are you looking at? Sorry? 170 00:10:28,520 --> 00:10:36,640 Speaker 1: Just deep in thought. You ever listened to Rebecca show? No, 171 00:10:37,440 --> 00:10:41,240 Speaker 1: not my thing I do. From time to time Sometimes 172 00:10:41,280 --> 00:10:44,079 Speaker 1: Savannah would go on and I tune in a lot 173 00:10:44,120 --> 00:10:47,800 Speaker 1: of the stuff they talked about I didn't understand. In retrospect, 174 00:10:47,960 --> 00:10:50,800 Speaker 1: I think I probably should have asked more questions, listened 175 00:10:50,800 --> 00:10:55,120 Speaker 1: a little closer. Anyway. I say this because I feel 176 00:10:55,160 --> 00:10:57,640 Speaker 1: if you took a listen to one episode in particular, 177 00:10:58,080 --> 00:11:00,960 Speaker 1: maybe you'd understand your sister a little better and you'd 178 00:11:00,960 --> 00:11:04,559 Speaker 1: see that her actions were truly her own. No one, 179 00:11:04,679 --> 00:11:06,920 Speaker 1: not even Rebecca, had to convince her to be who 180 00:11:06,960 --> 00:11:10,000 Speaker 1: she was. I don't have the energy to extend any 181 00:11:10,040 --> 00:11:14,560 Speaker 1: compassion to Rebecca. I really don't. The healing process starts 182 00:11:14,600 --> 00:11:18,400 Speaker 1: with you accept in reality and forgiving yourself. That has 183 00:11:18,440 --> 00:11:29,720 Speaker 1: nothing to do with Rebecca. Whatever you say, Grandma m hello, 184 00:11:32,000 --> 00:11:39,080 Speaker 1: how you twe you? We get that gun unless we 185 00:11:39,200 --> 00:11:44,080 Speaker 1: do something about that cadre of young people, tens of 186 00:11:44,240 --> 00:11:50,200 Speaker 1: thousands of them born out of wedlock, without parents, without supervision, 187 00:11:50,520 --> 00:11:56,680 Speaker 1: without any structure, without any conscience developing, because they literally 188 00:11:57,800 --> 00:12:02,760 Speaker 1: have not been socialized. They literally have not had an opportunity. 189 00:12:03,960 --> 00:12:08,320 Speaker 1: We should focus on them now, not out of a 190 00:12:08,400 --> 00:12:13,040 Speaker 1: liberal instinct for love, brother and humanity, although I think 191 00:12:13,040 --> 00:12:17,920 Speaker 1: that's a good instinct, but for simple pragmatic reasons. If 192 00:12:18,000 --> 00:12:22,000 Speaker 1: we don't, they will, or a portion of them, will 193 00:12:22,360 --> 00:12:26,080 Speaker 1: become the predators fifteen years from now. And we have 194 00:12:26,360 --> 00:12:30,880 Speaker 1: predators on our streets that society has, in fact, in 195 00:12:31,040 --> 00:12:35,760 Speaker 1: part because of us neglect created Again, It does not 196 00:12:35,840 --> 00:12:39,120 Speaker 1: mean because we created them that we somehow forgive them 197 00:12:39,200 --> 00:12:41,600 Speaker 1: or do not take them out of society to protect 198 00:12:41,640 --> 00:12:45,720 Speaker 1: my family and yours from them. They are beyond the pale, 199 00:12:45,760 --> 00:12:50,080 Speaker 1: many of those people beyond the pale, and it's a 200 00:12:50,160 --> 00:12:53,960 Speaker 1: sad commentary on society. We have no choice but to 201 00:12:54,080 --> 00:12:59,959 Speaker 1: take them out of society. Liberation Radio presents a conversation 202 00:13:00,360 --> 00:13:03,480 Speaker 1: with former Black Panther leader, activist and author of the 203 00:13:03,520 --> 00:13:14,079 Speaker 1: Condemnation of Little By Elaine Brown, hosted by Rebecca and Savanna. Now, 204 00:13:14,080 --> 00:13:22,080 Speaker 1: who's coming up? It's me again with someone and you're 205 00:13:22,080 --> 00:13:25,360 Speaker 1: related to the FBI. FBI woman wants to be in 206 00:13:25,360 --> 00:13:33,480 Speaker 1: the FBI. Rebecca and Savannah Now, so welcome Elaine again. 207 00:13:33,600 --> 00:13:35,800 Speaker 1: Thank you so much for coming on our show and 208 00:13:35,840 --> 00:13:41,200 Speaker 1: speaking with us. We really appreciate it, of course. Um. Yes, 209 00:13:41,960 --> 00:13:45,000 Speaker 1: we often hear horror stories about incarcerated black men and 210 00:13:45,040 --> 00:13:48,520 Speaker 1: women who have been wrongfully convicted of crimes they didn't commit. 211 00:13:49,320 --> 00:13:52,920 Speaker 1: Michael lewis Ak Little b was just thirteen years old 212 00:13:52,960 --> 00:13:54,960 Speaker 1: when he was in prison for a murder he didn't do. 213 00:13:55,880 --> 00:13:58,520 Speaker 1: Can you tell our listeners a little bit about that 214 00:13:58,640 --> 00:14:01,280 Speaker 1: story and how someone like Michael fell through the cracks 215 00:14:01,320 --> 00:14:04,000 Speaker 1: of the system. Right, Well, and I thank you for 216 00:14:04,080 --> 00:14:06,640 Speaker 1: that question. But let's first of all, not pretend that 217 00:14:06,720 --> 00:14:10,120 Speaker 1: the system has a safety net for anybody, especially any 218 00:14:10,160 --> 00:14:12,719 Speaker 1: black boys. So he didn't fall through any cracks. It 219 00:14:12,840 --> 00:14:15,800 Speaker 1: was a hole waiting for him to just walk over it, 220 00:14:15,880 --> 00:14:19,520 Speaker 1: and it was the entire Black community of Atlanta, and 221 00:14:19,600 --> 00:14:21,800 Speaker 1: don't want to just give a quick background. So when 222 00:14:21,840 --> 00:14:24,040 Speaker 1: Michael was eight, as he told me as I came 223 00:14:24,080 --> 00:14:27,000 Speaker 1: to know him, his house had become the crack house. 224 00:14:27,040 --> 00:14:29,560 Speaker 1: That's what do you mean? And he said, you know 225 00:14:29,720 --> 00:14:32,840 Speaker 1: everybody was in there smoking crack, including his mother. And 226 00:14:32,960 --> 00:14:35,440 Speaker 1: as he said later on, my mother smoked up the water, 227 00:14:36,120 --> 00:14:38,840 Speaker 1: smoked up the water, meaning the water got turned off 228 00:14:38,840 --> 00:14:41,080 Speaker 1: where she needed to put that money in that pipe? Right? 229 00:14:41,160 --> 00:14:43,920 Speaker 1: So no, not no, not no hot water, no water. 230 00:14:44,760 --> 00:14:48,480 Speaker 1: So at eight years old, he was the guardian of 231 00:14:48,560 --> 00:14:51,880 Speaker 1: himself and his five year old sister and they would 232 00:14:52,120 --> 00:14:54,440 Speaker 1: have to go to school to get food, and so 233 00:14:54,480 --> 00:14:56,800 Speaker 1: he would get her dress, comb or hair whatever. I said. 234 00:14:56,800 --> 00:14:59,080 Speaker 1: We were there a lot of people. I mean, it 235 00:14:59,200 --> 00:15:01,520 Speaker 1: was a crack how what do you mean? No, when 236 00:15:01,600 --> 00:15:03,440 Speaker 1: that made people? It was just this how I talked, 237 00:15:03,560 --> 00:15:05,280 Speaker 1: it's probably I said, well, how many people? Is not 238 00:15:05,320 --> 00:15:07,680 Speaker 1: that make people? No more than about twelve twelve people 239 00:15:07,680 --> 00:15:09,440 Speaker 1: are sleeping in the place where you live, that are 240 00:15:09,440 --> 00:15:11,760 Speaker 1: all smoking crack while you're a little kid at eight 241 00:15:11,840 --> 00:15:13,760 Speaker 1: years old, How did you want? I know how to 242 00:15:13,800 --> 00:15:15,640 Speaker 1: watch my own clothes. I used to go up to 243 00:15:15,640 --> 00:15:18,120 Speaker 1: the bank head and go take it, get the buggy 244 00:15:18,200 --> 00:15:19,760 Speaker 1: and go up to bank head and I get well, 245 00:15:19,760 --> 00:15:21,280 Speaker 1: how did you get money? Well, I got it from 246 00:15:21,280 --> 00:15:23,080 Speaker 1: my older brothers. And then he just sell a little 247 00:15:23,120 --> 00:15:25,760 Speaker 1: dope for them or whatever eight or you know, run 248 00:15:25,760 --> 00:15:27,680 Speaker 1: a package somewhere. You understand what I mean, because that 249 00:15:27,760 --> 00:15:31,040 Speaker 1: was a very very hope, very big dope area. There 250 00:15:31,120 --> 00:15:34,080 Speaker 1: was a movie, a document really you could call it 251 00:15:34,080 --> 00:15:37,600 Speaker 1: a documentary called Snow in the Bluffs. It said Bluffs, 252 00:15:37,600 --> 00:15:40,480 Speaker 1: but it was called the Bluff note f And that 253 00:15:40,600 --> 00:15:43,040 Speaker 1: was one of the heaviest drug areas of Atlanta. And 254 00:15:43,080 --> 00:15:45,360 Speaker 1: really it was in the pipeline coming up from Miami, 255 00:15:46,240 --> 00:15:49,400 Speaker 1: uh and as just a drug center. It was just unbelievable. 256 00:15:50,080 --> 00:15:53,520 Speaker 1: And so as he got older, um the court he 257 00:15:53,560 --> 00:15:56,840 Speaker 1: went to court several times through the school he went 258 00:15:56,920 --> 00:15:59,560 Speaker 1: to court because in the in the under the Georgia law, 259 00:15:59,640 --> 00:16:03,480 Speaker 1: do you've nile child that is being uh mistreated or something, 260 00:16:03,640 --> 00:16:05,840 Speaker 1: you don't go take the mother or the parent to 261 00:16:05,920 --> 00:16:09,240 Speaker 1: court for violation. You take the child to juvenile court 262 00:16:09,240 --> 00:16:11,360 Speaker 1: to say whether or not the child has deprived. So 263 00:16:11,400 --> 00:16:14,960 Speaker 1: he was given deprivation hearings every several times, and ultimately 264 00:16:15,000 --> 00:16:17,800 Speaker 1: the state removed him from the home, as if there 265 00:16:17,840 --> 00:16:20,880 Speaker 1: were a home, and he went into forster care and 266 00:16:20,880 --> 00:16:23,360 Speaker 1: it was very bad, so he ran away. They captured 267 00:16:23,400 --> 00:16:25,400 Speaker 1: they captured him, as he thought of it, meaning the 268 00:16:25,440 --> 00:16:30,680 Speaker 1: foster care defacts Department of Family and Children's Services. Uh. 269 00:16:30,920 --> 00:16:32,880 Speaker 1: They took him. Then they arranged to get him into 270 00:16:32,920 --> 00:16:36,040 Speaker 1: another force to home a woman and her husband that 271 00:16:36,520 --> 00:16:40,400 Speaker 1: his mother knew. So you already noticed some danger in that. Uh. 272 00:16:40,440 --> 00:16:44,560 Speaker 1: And he not only did the man beat him, as 273 00:16:44,560 --> 00:16:46,320 Speaker 1: he said, with his fists, and he was ten at 274 00:16:46,320 --> 00:16:50,800 Speaker 1: this time, but the woman, the mother, molested him at 275 00:16:50,840 --> 00:16:54,720 Speaker 1: ten years old. Now, at that point he ran away 276 00:16:54,720 --> 00:16:57,080 Speaker 1: from everything to what he knew, which was his brother 277 00:16:57,680 --> 00:16:59,880 Speaker 1: dealing dope on the streets of the bluff. So he 278 00:17:00,240 --> 00:17:02,720 Speaker 1: started dealing dope to survive. Not imagine yourself trying to 279 00:17:02,760 --> 00:17:05,840 Speaker 1: survive it eleven years old on the street. One of 280 00:17:05,920 --> 00:17:07,600 Speaker 1: the place he slept was so he said, I could 281 00:17:07,600 --> 00:17:10,040 Speaker 1: always find someplace to sleep. I was never homeless. No 282 00:17:10,600 --> 00:17:13,119 Speaker 1: homeless says, you don't have a home. It's not in 283 00:17:13,160 --> 00:17:15,720 Speaker 1: an encampment. You just don't have anywhere to live. You're 284 00:17:15,720 --> 00:17:19,199 Speaker 1: sleeping on somebody's couch, you're sleeping in a garage. You 285 00:17:19,280 --> 00:17:21,600 Speaker 1: don't have a key to a place where you put 286 00:17:21,640 --> 00:17:24,119 Speaker 1: your things up, you know, and you have a little 287 00:17:24,119 --> 00:17:27,199 Speaker 1: meal you can cook them. You were homeless, and one 288 00:17:27,200 --> 00:17:29,679 Speaker 1: of the places where he slept was in the elevator 289 00:17:29,800 --> 00:17:33,520 Speaker 1: of what would be the or Martyr Station in Atlanta Martya, 290 00:17:33,560 --> 00:17:37,400 Speaker 1: you know, Metropolitan Atlanta Transit so forth, rapid transit. So 291 00:17:37,800 --> 00:17:41,399 Speaker 1: he would lock the elevator in between floors. After after that, 292 00:17:41,920 --> 00:17:44,720 Speaker 1: you know, train stopped running and sleep there because it 293 00:17:44,840 --> 00:17:48,879 Speaker 1: was safe to be there. And you are twelve and 294 00:17:48,920 --> 00:17:53,480 Speaker 1: at thirteen, um, some guy was killed in front of 295 00:17:53,480 --> 00:17:57,600 Speaker 1: this store in the heart of the bluff, a store 296 00:17:57,640 --> 00:17:59,439 Speaker 1: that nobody would have gone to. First of all, you 297 00:17:59,440 --> 00:18:02,040 Speaker 1: would have never found it, but you definitely wouldn't have 298 00:18:02,040 --> 00:18:03,719 Speaker 1: any reason to go into it because it was one 299 00:18:03,720 --> 00:18:06,080 Speaker 1: of those stores. It was a crean that owned it, 300 00:18:06,240 --> 00:18:08,760 Speaker 1: but all outside dope being sold here. Because in the 301 00:18:08,800 --> 00:18:15,000 Speaker 1: bluff you could buy everything from crack, cocaine, powder, cocaine, ecstasy, weed, uh, 302 00:18:15,040 --> 00:18:17,480 Speaker 1: you name it, just depending on what you need. They 303 00:18:17,480 --> 00:18:20,080 Speaker 1: had enough people out there selling and it was so 304 00:18:20,160 --> 00:18:22,240 Speaker 1: open that you didn't you don't have to ask you 305 00:18:22,240 --> 00:18:25,040 Speaker 1: a question. So everybody from the Atlanta University Center, like 306 00:18:25,119 --> 00:18:29,080 Speaker 1: spelling more house, uh um and uh whatever the other 307 00:18:29,119 --> 00:18:31,480 Speaker 1: ones are that I can't suddy think of all those 308 00:18:31,520 --> 00:18:33,399 Speaker 1: college kids would go over to the bluff because it 309 00:18:33,480 --> 00:18:36,399 Speaker 1: was very close and get some weed, get some code. 310 00:18:36,920 --> 00:18:39,520 Speaker 1: It was open that nothing's gonna happen to you in 311 00:18:39,560 --> 00:18:43,000 Speaker 1: the bluff if you're buying. Everybody wants you to be happy. 312 00:18:43,520 --> 00:18:47,359 Speaker 1: White boys coming down from Buckhead, white college students at 313 00:18:47,400 --> 00:18:50,640 Speaker 1: Georgia Tech. Everybody knew you could roll through the bluff 314 00:18:50,960 --> 00:18:54,359 Speaker 1: and get some goddamn dope. And there wasn't anything that 315 00:18:54,480 --> 00:18:56,800 Speaker 1: you couldn't get if you had some new stuff that 316 00:18:56,800 --> 00:18:59,560 Speaker 1: they hadn't heard up, like when ecstasy came out. They're 317 00:18:59,560 --> 00:19:02,119 Speaker 1: gonna comma date your need. They were selling like you 318 00:19:02,160 --> 00:19:04,520 Speaker 1: can't believe. And the only other people that were out 319 00:19:04,560 --> 00:19:06,960 Speaker 1: on the streets of the bluff with the crackheads. So 320 00:19:07,000 --> 00:19:09,080 Speaker 1: at some point this man and woman roll up to 321 00:19:09,119 --> 00:19:11,720 Speaker 1: this little store that you know can't be selling anything 322 00:19:11,760 --> 00:19:14,720 Speaker 1: at all, you know, maybe fake care in the package, 323 00:19:14,960 --> 00:19:19,760 Speaker 1: maybe some some old milk, just nothing. And the wife 324 00:19:20,000 --> 00:19:21,479 Speaker 1: says she gets out of the car and go get 325 00:19:21,560 --> 00:19:25,000 Speaker 1: the soda and comes back, doesn't have enough money and 326 00:19:25,119 --> 00:19:27,560 Speaker 1: goes back to pay for the soda. Here's gunshot and 327 00:19:27,600 --> 00:19:30,560 Speaker 1: the husband has been shot through the window. He's in 328 00:19:30,600 --> 00:19:34,120 Speaker 1: the passenger seat and blasted through the window and kill. 329 00:19:34,600 --> 00:19:37,520 Speaker 1: Now that's the story they tell, that little bit, the 330 00:19:37,640 --> 00:19:41,080 Speaker 1: thirteen year old boy who was not even five ft 331 00:19:41,119 --> 00:19:44,159 Speaker 1: tall at the time, because a lot of these children 332 00:19:44,160 --> 00:19:46,920 Speaker 1: that are born in these neighborhoods, they were really malnourished, 333 00:19:46,920 --> 00:19:49,359 Speaker 1: like like t I, they're all little believe or not. 334 00:19:49,400 --> 00:19:52,040 Speaker 1: It's a really strange I mean, this is my observation. 335 00:19:52,119 --> 00:19:56,760 Speaker 1: This has not been a scientific for my observation. Anyway, 336 00:19:56,760 --> 00:19:59,760 Speaker 1: he gets charged with the murder, and it's not like 337 00:20:00,040 --> 00:20:02,560 Speaker 1: he got charged. It was a week later and they 338 00:20:02,600 --> 00:20:04,280 Speaker 1: had a big picture of him on the front page. 339 00:20:04,280 --> 00:20:06,640 Speaker 1: And wait, I thought you didn't show with juvenile spaces 340 00:20:06,720 --> 00:20:09,440 Speaker 1: what happened to that part? And they said this thug 341 00:20:09,440 --> 00:20:13,119 Speaker 1: in quotes because you can use yellow journalism when you quote, 342 00:20:13,119 --> 00:20:15,439 Speaker 1: when you words, it's not me, you think he's ad 343 00:20:15,480 --> 00:20:21,040 Speaker 1: the pardon me, it's I'm quoting Lieutenant Hooby Boom. Right. Uh, 344 00:20:21,119 --> 00:20:24,760 Speaker 1: this thug's charged with what you barely see, the charge 345 00:20:24,800 --> 00:20:28,159 Speaker 1: with murdering a good black father. So now we have 346 00:20:28,280 --> 00:20:30,600 Speaker 1: the set up on the black community and the setup 347 00:20:30,720 --> 00:20:34,600 Speaker 1: is there's this bad black this super predator is Hillary 348 00:20:34,640 --> 00:20:39,080 Speaker 1: Clinton popularized it. Um, these bad boys, I'm messing up 349 00:20:39,080 --> 00:20:40,920 Speaker 1: our community. We would be free. A matter of fact, 350 00:20:40,920 --> 00:20:43,840 Speaker 1: if it wasn't for them, we would have gold, we 351 00:20:43,880 --> 00:20:46,440 Speaker 1: would have homes, and we would have everything we need 352 00:20:47,080 --> 00:20:50,239 Speaker 1: if but for these little niggas that are messing up? 353 00:20:50,240 --> 00:20:53,879 Speaker 1: Are these gangster rappers? All this sagging and all this 354 00:20:54,400 --> 00:20:57,840 Speaker 1: gangster rapping and all this wearing a grill selling dope, 355 00:20:58,000 --> 00:21:00,800 Speaker 1: these are the problems of our mean, why don't you 356 00:21:00,840 --> 00:21:03,040 Speaker 1: get a good job at the post office, driving ups 357 00:21:03,040 --> 00:21:05,479 Speaker 1: struck or something like this and be a family man 358 00:21:05,520 --> 00:21:07,640 Speaker 1: and take care of your family. That was the Bill 359 00:21:07,680 --> 00:21:12,600 Speaker 1: Clinton message that pushed through strikes crime bill. And what 360 00:21:12,720 --> 00:21:15,600 Speaker 1: that crime bill did, with the big support of the 361 00:21:15,640 --> 00:21:19,200 Speaker 1: Congressional Black Caucus has lit at that time by k. C. M. Fume. 362 00:21:20,040 --> 00:21:22,359 Speaker 1: What that crime bill did was, in addition to giving 363 00:21:22,400 --> 00:21:24,960 Speaker 1: this so called third strike and all these heavy duty 364 00:21:25,000 --> 00:21:29,119 Speaker 1: to a Colonian mandatory sentences, what it also did was 365 00:21:29,240 --> 00:21:33,440 Speaker 1: it said we're going to try children for certain crimes, 366 00:21:33,520 --> 00:21:36,280 Speaker 1: you know, like seven deadly since seven deadly crimes, So 367 00:21:36,400 --> 00:21:40,520 Speaker 1: if a child is charged with murder, assault, rape, arson, 368 00:21:40,920 --> 00:21:45,159 Speaker 1: child molesting, something, and the robbery, armed robbery. All of 369 00:21:45,160 --> 00:21:48,960 Speaker 1: these seven crimes they can be and probably will be 370 00:21:49,200 --> 00:21:52,040 Speaker 1: tried as adults. Now what does that mean. That means 371 00:21:52,080 --> 00:21:53,800 Speaker 1: that if you went to a juvenile court, I would 372 00:21:53,840 --> 00:21:56,040 Speaker 1: look at you. I'd be the judge. I'm your juvenile judge, 373 00:21:56,040 --> 00:21:58,119 Speaker 1: and I say, okay, well, let's see if this person. 374 00:21:58,760 --> 00:22:01,880 Speaker 1: What happened. This person in a bad neighborhood. They were influenced, 375 00:22:02,200 --> 00:22:04,120 Speaker 1: They got raped at home, so maybe that's why they 376 00:22:04,119 --> 00:22:05,720 Speaker 1: did this. You know what I mean? And I would 377 00:22:05,800 --> 00:22:09,119 Speaker 1: consider the elements of what you did, but I would 378 00:22:09,119 --> 00:22:12,359 Speaker 1: not be putting you in prison for life under any circumstances. 379 00:22:12,400 --> 00:22:14,000 Speaker 1: And I would certainly not be putting you in prison 380 00:22:14,040 --> 00:22:17,119 Speaker 1: for life. With adults, you can go to a juvenile 381 00:22:17,160 --> 00:22:20,040 Speaker 1: facility and you might do three years, and then we 382 00:22:20,080 --> 00:22:23,560 Speaker 1: could rehabilitate you, because we know the children act not 383 00:22:23,640 --> 00:22:26,720 Speaker 1: only impulsively, but they have no sense of consequence. A 384 00:22:26,760 --> 00:22:29,360 Speaker 1: thirteen year old boy, even if he had killed this man, 385 00:22:29,440 --> 00:22:32,520 Speaker 1: which he did not, one of the dope boys, and 386 00:22:32,560 --> 00:22:35,200 Speaker 1: they ended up all agreeing to let him take the wrap. 387 00:22:35,760 --> 00:22:38,040 Speaker 1: And he was so used to taking the dope when 388 00:22:38,040 --> 00:22:40,720 Speaker 1: the police the feudal times, the police would allegedly come by. 389 00:22:40,760 --> 00:22:42,600 Speaker 1: They just handed off to little just give it a 390 00:22:42,680 --> 00:22:45,800 Speaker 1: little b you know. He and he was so tough 391 00:22:45,960 --> 00:22:50,000 Speaker 1: because he had to be so in the juvenile court. 392 00:22:50,600 --> 00:22:53,040 Speaker 1: That would be what happens in an adult court. You're 393 00:22:53,040 --> 00:22:55,640 Speaker 1: gonna get a jewelry and we're gonna judge you according 394 00:22:55,680 --> 00:22:58,560 Speaker 1: to the crime, and you're gonna get the same time 395 00:22:58,680 --> 00:23:02,439 Speaker 1: and same situation as an adult would get. Nothing's going 396 00:23:02,480 --> 00:23:05,239 Speaker 1: to be considered about your juvenile history and who you 397 00:23:05,280 --> 00:23:07,480 Speaker 1: are and how to balance all of this. There's been 398 00:23:07,520 --> 00:23:10,560 Speaker 1: no understanding of rehabilitation that the child can't even have, 399 00:23:10,880 --> 00:23:13,360 Speaker 1: doesn't even have the brain development, much less anything else 400 00:23:13,400 --> 00:23:17,120 Speaker 1: to form intent for crime. Crime is harm that is done. 401 00:23:17,880 --> 00:23:21,160 Speaker 1: That's the fundamental definition of crime. Right under the law. 402 00:23:22,560 --> 00:23:24,879 Speaker 1: We know it's intent because you pull the trick. So 403 00:23:25,480 --> 00:23:29,879 Speaker 1: the point I'm making is, here's this boy who's the 404 00:23:29,920 --> 00:23:33,680 Speaker 1: first one in Fulton County to be tried as an adult, 405 00:23:33,800 --> 00:23:37,000 Speaker 1: and the Fulton County d A had just been elected 406 00:23:37,080 --> 00:23:40,360 Speaker 1: first black d A in the state of Georgia, who 407 00:23:40,400 --> 00:23:43,119 Speaker 1: decided he was gonna show black and white people that 408 00:23:43,200 --> 00:23:45,359 Speaker 1: he will do for master with Master won't do firm. 409 00:23:45,359 --> 00:23:47,160 Speaker 1: So I'm gonna lock these little niggas up. I'm gonna 410 00:23:47,200 --> 00:23:48,840 Speaker 1: tell you that right now. This is the first one 411 00:23:48,960 --> 00:23:50,800 Speaker 1: is gonna go down, and made a name for himself 412 00:23:50,920 --> 00:23:54,640 Speaker 1: as a prosecutor of young boys, mostly black. Of those 413 00:23:54,680 --> 00:23:57,919 Speaker 1: in Fulton, Chient that went down as adults, now you 414 00:23:57,920 --> 00:24:00,680 Speaker 1: could say, well, if if they were charged with murder, 415 00:24:00,760 --> 00:24:03,280 Speaker 1: people like you did big boy crime, you're gonna do 416 00:24:03,359 --> 00:24:05,679 Speaker 1: big boy time. That was a slogan that Pete Wilson, 417 00:24:06,160 --> 00:24:08,639 Speaker 1: the former governor of California, came up with. He was 418 00:24:08,680 --> 00:24:11,040 Speaker 1: a big advocate of charging these little black boy because 419 00:24:11,040 --> 00:24:14,560 Speaker 1: nobody thought of white boys as criminals. Crime in America 420 00:24:14,560 --> 00:24:18,560 Speaker 1: has a color. It's black. We have no mental health discussional, 421 00:24:18,560 --> 00:24:22,480 Speaker 1: no a little big he's a superpenditor, and we don't 422 00:24:22,480 --> 00:24:24,600 Speaker 1: want him in life. We don't want him in our lives. 423 00:24:24,640 --> 00:24:27,000 Speaker 1: We just want to put him away. So at that 424 00:24:27,200 --> 00:24:31,600 Speaker 1: same time, Michael was being demonized every day for a 425 00:24:31,680 --> 00:24:35,399 Speaker 1: month in the Atlanta Journal Constitution and the black journalists 426 00:24:35,560 --> 00:24:38,679 Speaker 1: were the main ones demonizing. It was nowhere for him 427 00:24:38,720 --> 00:24:40,800 Speaker 1: to go once the trial starts. So I got involved 428 00:24:40,800 --> 00:24:45,600 Speaker 1: because I was crying, how can our people do this 429 00:24:45,680 --> 00:24:49,160 Speaker 1: to this boy. He hasn't even been tried. You've you've 430 00:24:49,200 --> 00:24:52,600 Speaker 1: convicted him of everything, and the woman had a miscarriage, 431 00:24:53,400 --> 00:24:56,879 Speaker 1: so because she claims she was traumatized. The whole story 432 00:24:56,960 --> 00:24:59,120 Speaker 1: was so fake it was pathetic. And so now he's 433 00:24:59,119 --> 00:25:02,199 Speaker 1: put on trial. You've got at least seven blacks on 434 00:25:02,240 --> 00:25:04,800 Speaker 1: the jury. You've got a black d A a d 435 00:25:04,960 --> 00:25:07,720 Speaker 1: A assistant district attorney argue in the case. You've got 436 00:25:07,760 --> 00:25:10,280 Speaker 1: four dope boys on coming understand saying well, yeah, I 437 00:25:10,280 --> 00:25:13,399 Speaker 1: saw a little b DD. You've got two crackheads coming understand, 438 00:25:13,440 --> 00:25:16,040 Speaker 1: both of whom are high understand. Oh, don't let that Bobby. 439 00:25:17,200 --> 00:25:20,520 Speaker 1: And they created this fiction that Michael went up to 440 00:25:20,560 --> 00:25:23,720 Speaker 1: the car and said cut your lights to the to 441 00:25:24,080 --> 00:25:27,320 Speaker 1: the husband. Now we don't realize at the beginning that 442 00:25:27,359 --> 00:25:31,480 Speaker 1: the husband is actually in the passenger seat. And according 443 00:25:31,520 --> 00:25:33,639 Speaker 1: to the fiction that they created, although there was no 444 00:25:33,720 --> 00:25:36,520 Speaker 1: one actually testifying to this, the guy goes, no, I'm 445 00:25:36,520 --> 00:25:39,199 Speaker 1: not doing nothing, you tell me whatever, smart remark, and 446 00:25:39,240 --> 00:25:42,120 Speaker 1: then Michael goes off, goes around the corner and comes 447 00:25:42,160 --> 00:25:44,240 Speaker 1: back with a big long gun. The gun was three 448 00:25:44,240 --> 00:25:48,120 Speaker 1: ft five inches, Michael were four ft eleven I don't 449 00:25:48,119 --> 00:25:50,680 Speaker 1: know high fired deck gun. But okay, let's not get 450 00:25:50,840 --> 00:25:53,600 Speaker 1: let's not let the science or facts get in our way. Okay. 451 00:25:53,760 --> 00:25:57,280 Speaker 1: And fires blash through the window windows, now close the windows. 452 00:25:57,560 --> 00:25:59,720 Speaker 1: Uh uh and the and the window is tinted and 453 00:25:59,760 --> 00:26:03,640 Speaker 1: it's night and you get the main witness big when 454 00:26:03,680 --> 00:26:06,280 Speaker 1: the main dope boys had just been arrested in November. 455 00:26:06,400 --> 00:26:09,920 Speaker 1: That killing was in January for a possession to sell 456 00:26:10,880 --> 00:26:14,320 Speaker 1: hits of heroin. Now you're facing forty years to life 457 00:26:14,359 --> 00:26:17,320 Speaker 1: in a federal penitentiary on that one. What what? What? 458 00:26:17,359 --> 00:26:19,560 Speaker 1: Hap went a little bit when Biggie testified against a 459 00:26:19,560 --> 00:26:22,520 Speaker 1: little bit He did six months in the state prison 460 00:26:22,800 --> 00:26:26,840 Speaker 1: and was released on probation for roles some some oddball 461 00:26:27,040 --> 00:26:29,879 Speaker 1: arrangement because he had already made an arrangement during the 462 00:26:29,920 --> 00:26:33,240 Speaker 1: time that between the time Michael was arrested. We know, 463 00:26:33,440 --> 00:26:35,919 Speaker 1: we pretty much know who did it, but it wasn't Michael, 464 00:26:35,960 --> 00:26:38,919 Speaker 1: but it doesn't matter at fourteen. By this time he 465 00:26:39,000 --> 00:26:41,640 Speaker 1: turned fourteen. He was convicted in November of ninety seven. 466 00:26:42,000 --> 00:26:46,200 Speaker 1: Murder occurred in January, convicted in November, and in December 467 00:26:46,320 --> 00:26:49,520 Speaker 1: he was in an adult prison. He was not even 468 00:26:49,560 --> 00:26:52,560 Speaker 1: five ft tall yet, and he didn't wave very much. 469 00:26:52,960 --> 00:26:55,639 Speaker 1: But because he was tough enough, I think it's the 470 00:26:55,640 --> 00:26:59,760 Speaker 1: only reason he was able to navigate the horror of 471 00:26:59,840 --> 00:27:03,639 Speaker 1: the prison system. What was the horror there? These little boys, 472 00:27:03,640 --> 00:27:05,200 Speaker 1: some of them thought they were halfway tough. You know, 473 00:27:05,240 --> 00:27:07,440 Speaker 1: they were on the street, yah the yah, the poor 474 00:27:07,600 --> 00:27:10,080 Speaker 1: black boys, and they thought they were tough. But they 475 00:27:10,080 --> 00:27:13,160 Speaker 1: hadn't run into the poor black guy who's now growing 476 00:27:13,240 --> 00:27:16,760 Speaker 1: up in prison doing quadruple life, pumping iron with one hand. 477 00:27:16,880 --> 00:27:19,400 Speaker 1: You know what I mean, that kind of thing, going 478 00:27:19,520 --> 00:27:21,520 Speaker 1: to rape you. I can tell you that right now, 479 00:27:21,800 --> 00:27:23,800 Speaker 1: he's not gonna get out and ain't gonna be no woman. 480 00:27:23,880 --> 00:27:26,639 Speaker 1: You're starting to look like Beyonce, Diana Ross or somebody 481 00:27:26,680 --> 00:27:29,760 Speaker 1: like that. You're a little boy, it's an easy target. 482 00:27:29,800 --> 00:27:32,160 Speaker 1: So many young boys were raped in that prison during 483 00:27:32,160 --> 00:27:35,080 Speaker 1: the time that Michael was there. The horror of the 484 00:27:35,080 --> 00:27:38,600 Speaker 1: flirst place where he went Alto, in a place called 485 00:27:38,680 --> 00:27:41,680 Speaker 1: Lee Aarondale State Prison, in a little town called Alto, Georgia, 486 00:27:42,320 --> 00:27:47,280 Speaker 1: all around surrounded about nothing but white trailer parks. I'll say, so, 487 00:27:47,320 --> 00:27:50,280 Speaker 1: I won't be I'll be somewhat politically correct. You ain't 488 00:27:50,320 --> 00:27:53,200 Speaker 1: going nowhere, and half the guards live around there, right 489 00:27:53,720 --> 00:27:56,280 Speaker 1: because that's how these little towns survived. They don't have 490 00:27:56,320 --> 00:27:58,000 Speaker 1: any money, but the prison is gonna bring them a 491 00:27:58,040 --> 00:28:01,119 Speaker 1: lot of money, bring them visitors, put a blue restaurant. 492 00:28:01,119 --> 00:28:03,960 Speaker 1: All that stuff happens right. People even move into the 493 00:28:04,000 --> 00:28:05,600 Speaker 1: area if their son is going to be there for 494 00:28:05,600 --> 00:28:07,119 Speaker 1: a while, but you never know how long they might 495 00:28:07,119 --> 00:28:09,959 Speaker 1: be there. But Michael was there almost four years, and 496 00:28:09,960 --> 00:28:12,320 Speaker 1: in those four years, what did he see from fourteen 497 00:28:12,359 --> 00:28:15,080 Speaker 1: to eighteen, I don't even know, because I don't think 498 00:28:15,080 --> 00:28:18,040 Speaker 1: he can speak about it even now because the conditions 499 00:28:18,080 --> 00:28:23,160 Speaker 1: are so unspeakable and barbaric, and it's only natural. It's 500 00:28:23,160 --> 00:28:25,119 Speaker 1: like if you put people in a sewer, we're going 501 00:28:25,160 --> 00:28:27,240 Speaker 1: to start behaving like sewer rats. It's not going to 502 00:28:27,359 --> 00:28:30,399 Speaker 1: be complicated, you know. So that's part of what the prison. 503 00:28:30,560 --> 00:28:34,840 Speaker 1: It's crowded, not overcrowded, its just crowded intrinsically. You don't 504 00:28:34,840 --> 00:28:37,560 Speaker 1: have any privacy. You're gonna do whatever the guards tell 505 00:28:37,600 --> 00:28:39,120 Speaker 1: you to do, and if they don't like it, they're 506 00:28:39,120 --> 00:28:40,640 Speaker 1: gonna tell you do stuff that you know you can't do. 507 00:28:40,680 --> 00:28:42,040 Speaker 1: Then you're gonna go to the home. My boys in 508 00:28:42,080 --> 00:28:44,200 Speaker 1: the hole. In those first couple of years, he was 509 00:28:44,200 --> 00:28:46,240 Speaker 1: in the hole like once every other month because he 510 00:28:46,280 --> 00:28:50,760 Speaker 1: was always gonna teleguard. Fuck you, nigga. You know that's 511 00:28:50,760 --> 00:28:54,200 Speaker 1: how it is. I'm not gonna take ship because you 512 00:28:54,280 --> 00:28:56,880 Speaker 1: gotta stand for something. That's the other part, right, But 513 00:28:57,080 --> 00:29:00,000 Speaker 1: louis going to the hole, and there was Michael reached 514 00:29:00,000 --> 00:29:02,200 Speaker 1: your point instead of packing up yourself, bitch, I'll see 515 00:29:02,240 --> 00:29:06,320 Speaker 1: you at the hole. So that's how you get. So 516 00:29:06,440 --> 00:29:09,600 Speaker 1: here's my boy. He's in a joint. I started seeing 517 00:29:09,680 --> 00:29:12,680 Speaker 1: him in the first month, I would say, like in January, 518 00:29:12,760 --> 00:29:15,480 Speaker 1: and I had written these articles. And after vibe, I 519 00:29:15,480 --> 00:29:17,360 Speaker 1: would say, a couple of months, he had adopted me. 520 00:29:17,400 --> 00:29:19,560 Speaker 1: He wrote me a letter and said, dear mom. So 521 00:29:19,960 --> 00:29:23,200 Speaker 1: suddenly I went from being his advocate as such to 522 00:29:23,480 --> 00:29:26,200 Speaker 1: his mother. And I've been his mother in his mind 523 00:29:26,640 --> 00:29:29,240 Speaker 1: because he can be proud. I give him a lot. 524 00:29:29,440 --> 00:29:32,200 Speaker 1: His books are always cool. But he had survived, and 525 00:29:32,240 --> 00:29:33,600 Speaker 1: that was the one thing I told him he had 526 00:29:33,640 --> 00:29:35,920 Speaker 1: to do. I don't know how you're gonna survive. I 527 00:29:36,000 --> 00:29:38,600 Speaker 1: don't know, but you're gonna have to figure it out. 528 00:29:38,600 --> 00:29:40,360 Speaker 1: And no one is coming to get you, and you 529 00:29:40,400 --> 00:29:43,400 Speaker 1: have nowhere to run. And he has he's done his part. 530 00:29:43,440 --> 00:29:45,240 Speaker 1: I haven't done my part. My part was to get 531 00:29:45,320 --> 00:29:47,280 Speaker 1: him out. I have done everything that I know how 532 00:29:47,320 --> 00:29:49,560 Speaker 1: to do, and I'm a bad bitch, and so I've 533 00:29:49,560 --> 00:29:53,320 Speaker 1: really worked hard for him for twenty four years. And 534 00:29:53,360 --> 00:29:56,400 Speaker 1: so the bottom line, though, is that he's still in prison. 535 00:29:56,440 --> 00:29:59,840 Speaker 1: He's been denied for all three times. And the black 536 00:30:00,080 --> 00:30:04,600 Speaker 1: A guy that prosecuted him, the d A, m self. Uh. 537 00:30:04,600 --> 00:30:07,520 Speaker 1: When Michael was convicted, he said he has to do 538 00:30:07,600 --> 00:30:10,520 Speaker 1: fourteen years on that. That was the mandatory sentence for 539 00:30:11,160 --> 00:30:16,360 Speaker 1: murder at that time, and it's now thirty years mandatory 540 00:30:16,360 --> 00:30:20,880 Speaker 1: minimum years. Can you believe that? Thirty thirty years minimum? 541 00:30:20,920 --> 00:30:23,720 Speaker 1: So he the d A said he when he finishes 542 00:30:23,760 --> 00:30:25,680 Speaker 1: fourteen years, I'll be at the cruel board to make 543 00:30:25,720 --> 00:30:30,160 Speaker 1: sure he does fourteen more. And he's now done twenty 544 00:30:30,160 --> 00:30:33,480 Speaker 1: four years. We certainly never imagined it. I thought he'd 545 00:30:33,480 --> 00:30:35,560 Speaker 1: be out. I'm like, I'm bad. I can go out 546 00:30:35,560 --> 00:30:38,960 Speaker 1: and find support. And nobody believes this story and people 547 00:30:39,000 --> 00:30:41,240 Speaker 1: think I'm some kind of idiot that he really did 548 00:30:41,320 --> 00:30:43,760 Speaker 1: kill this man. That's a shame of it. And so 549 00:30:43,840 --> 00:30:48,000 Speaker 1: he's been imprisoned more than half his life. Now he's 550 00:30:48,000 --> 00:30:50,280 Speaker 1: grown up in prison. He has never known a life here. 551 00:30:50,320 --> 00:30:51,800 Speaker 1: I don't even know how he's going to make it 552 00:30:51,840 --> 00:30:54,600 Speaker 1: out here. But I have everything ready. So we've presented 553 00:30:54,640 --> 00:30:57,840 Speaker 1: to the Thriller Board and we've shown I have housing 554 00:30:57,880 --> 00:31:01,480 Speaker 1: for him in in Oakland and in Atlanta. I've got 555 00:31:01,480 --> 00:31:03,640 Speaker 1: a job for him in Oakland in Atlanta. I've got 556 00:31:04,040 --> 00:31:07,280 Speaker 1: education for him in Oakland and Atlanta. I've got mental 557 00:31:07,320 --> 00:31:09,200 Speaker 1: health care, so they know that we're going to think 558 00:31:09,200 --> 00:31:12,520 Speaker 1: about that in Oaken in Atlanta. And he hasn't had 559 00:31:12,520 --> 00:31:15,800 Speaker 1: any write ups or anything. He spent six years, six 560 00:31:16,880 --> 00:31:22,600 Speaker 1: years in total isolation for accusation of being a gang leader. 561 00:31:22,760 --> 00:31:25,320 Speaker 1: And one of those years he was in such total 562 00:31:25,320 --> 00:31:29,080 Speaker 1: isolation twenty four hours locked out. Now, normally, or according 563 00:31:29,080 --> 00:31:32,480 Speaker 1: to most rules, everybody is entitled to one hour outside, 564 00:31:32,680 --> 00:31:35,680 Speaker 1: but it beats being in the cell all day long. 565 00:31:35,960 --> 00:31:38,120 Speaker 1: He spent one year without that, even though it was 566 00:31:38,160 --> 00:31:41,000 Speaker 1: totally illegal, Not that that would matter, because illegal is 567 00:31:41,040 --> 00:31:44,320 Speaker 1: not relevant here. The whole thing is is im moral 568 00:31:44,520 --> 00:31:47,320 Speaker 1: much as it's illegal. And he spent one year where 569 00:31:47,360 --> 00:31:49,640 Speaker 1: he did had no books. They took away his books, 570 00:31:49,680 --> 00:31:53,840 Speaker 1: his paper, no radio, no visits, no telephone calls, nothing. 571 00:31:54,000 --> 00:31:56,560 Speaker 1: Can you imagine twenty four hour lockdown? I don't know 572 00:31:56,600 --> 00:32:00,320 Speaker 1: how he survived it. I honestly don't know, and I 573 00:32:00,320 --> 00:32:02,320 Speaker 1: told himout siderous hero, I don't know how he did it, 574 00:32:03,440 --> 00:32:05,880 Speaker 1: and I just weep, but I can't weep. I had 575 00:32:05,920 --> 00:32:08,960 Speaker 1: to do something. It's not good enough. So that's that's 576 00:32:08,960 --> 00:32:11,600 Speaker 1: where we are now. And we think we have the 577 00:32:11,680 --> 00:32:14,240 Speaker 1: grounds for a new trial. But he did not have 578 00:32:14,440 --> 00:32:17,680 Speaker 1: a hearing on confidence, and everybody is supposed to have 579 00:32:17,720 --> 00:32:20,880 Speaker 1: a competency hearing to say whether or not you're confident 580 00:32:20,960 --> 00:32:23,480 Speaker 1: to stay in trial. And because he didn't have that, 581 00:32:23,520 --> 00:32:25,480 Speaker 1: and he was thirteen, and then we have like all 582 00:32:25,560 --> 00:32:27,719 Speaker 1: kinds of backup on what that would mean thirteen year old, 583 00:32:27,760 --> 00:32:29,840 Speaker 1: what they understand, what they've done with the psychology, all 584 00:32:29,840 --> 00:32:32,320 Speaker 1: of that that he should have had a competency. And 585 00:32:32,360 --> 00:32:34,160 Speaker 1: then there was the second issue we have is that 586 00:32:34,240 --> 00:32:38,280 Speaker 1: the the the Supreme Court of the United States UH, 587 00:32:38,320 --> 00:32:42,560 Speaker 1: in a case called Miller I want to say, stated 588 00:32:42,640 --> 00:32:47,160 Speaker 1: that um sentencing children to prison for life without parole 589 00:32:47,920 --> 00:32:51,520 Speaker 1: is a violation of the Eighth Amendment for against prun 590 00:32:51,600 --> 00:32:55,640 Speaker 1: unusual punishment. So that was like very big, But Michael 591 00:32:55,720 --> 00:33:00,160 Speaker 1: wasn't sentenced to life without parole, So we're trying to 592 00:33:00,280 --> 00:33:02,880 Speaker 1: argue that it's effectively is life with that for role 593 00:33:03,000 --> 00:33:06,040 Speaker 1: or should be applicable to his case because he's been 594 00:33:06,080 --> 00:33:09,880 Speaker 1: denied three times on the same ground, and that ground 595 00:33:09,960 --> 00:33:12,160 Speaker 1: is nature of the crime. But when's that going to change? 596 00:33:13,040 --> 00:33:15,760 Speaker 1: So you could be denying him until he's ninety years old, 597 00:33:16,080 --> 00:33:19,239 Speaker 1: So it's effectively life without for all um. And so 598 00:33:19,280 --> 00:33:22,880 Speaker 1: we're arguing that case, and then we're arguing that, you know, 599 00:33:23,520 --> 00:33:27,400 Speaker 1: there's newly discovered evidence of a witness. These people didn't 600 00:33:27,400 --> 00:33:30,160 Speaker 1: even come forward. I mean, the doggishness of the dope 601 00:33:30,160 --> 00:33:32,479 Speaker 1: dealers that that got up on the stand. All of 602 00:33:32,520 --> 00:33:35,920 Speaker 1: this is systemic, Like we decided, we made a political 603 00:33:35,960 --> 00:33:39,800 Speaker 1: decision to identify these young black boys as super predators. 604 00:33:39,880 --> 00:33:44,240 Speaker 1: Course just fake science saying that you know, uh, these 605 00:33:44,320 --> 00:33:48,080 Speaker 1: black boys who were criminals are getting younger and younger. 606 00:33:48,120 --> 00:33:50,080 Speaker 1: This was a guy named John Dejulio with a guy 607 00:33:50,200 --> 00:33:52,200 Speaker 1: named William Bennett, and they wrote it. They actually wrote 608 00:33:52,200 --> 00:33:56,479 Speaker 1: a paper called My Black Crime Problem and Yours, and 609 00:33:56,520 --> 00:33:59,880 Speaker 1: they invented this word super frederal and then Hillary Clinton, 610 00:34:00,160 --> 00:34:03,520 Speaker 1: with her trifling ask picked that up and popularized it 611 00:34:03,560 --> 00:34:07,640 Speaker 1: to the point where even today people refer to people 612 00:34:07,720 --> 00:34:11,080 Speaker 1: as super predators. So my boy, as I call him, 613 00:34:11,080 --> 00:34:13,560 Speaker 1: even though he is thirty seven years old about to 614 00:34:13,560 --> 00:34:17,240 Speaker 1: be thirty eight, has suffered the front of every single 615 00:34:17,680 --> 00:34:22,120 Speaker 1: element of the racism and capitalism and corruption and violence 616 00:34:22,239 --> 00:34:26,680 Speaker 1: of this entire country. He is literally, you know, the 617 00:34:26,760 --> 00:34:29,520 Speaker 1: prototype for everything that could go wrong. Your mother was 618 00:34:29,600 --> 00:34:32,479 Speaker 1: on crack, you know, crack had descended on the black 619 00:34:32,520 --> 00:34:35,319 Speaker 1: community thanks to the c I A, so forth and 620 00:34:35,360 --> 00:34:38,600 Speaker 1: so on. So every single piece of his life, probably 621 00:34:38,680 --> 00:34:42,839 Speaker 1: even in the womb, was would would have led us 622 00:34:43,000 --> 00:34:46,960 Speaker 1: to boy being left in prison for life. There was 623 00:34:47,000 --> 00:34:51,200 Speaker 1: no chance for him to escape some sentence like that. 624 00:34:51,280 --> 00:34:52,960 Speaker 1: And then he said to me, you know, I probably 625 00:34:53,000 --> 00:34:56,080 Speaker 1: did anyway if I want to, which is probably true. 626 00:34:57,360 --> 00:35:01,840 Speaker 1: It seems like nothing ever changes, you know. Um, we march, 627 00:35:02,400 --> 00:35:06,640 Speaker 1: we protest, you know, we burned stuff down, and what 628 00:35:06,680 --> 00:35:10,560 Speaker 1: do we get. We get a mural trending hashtag on Twitter. 629 00:35:11,600 --> 00:35:16,120 Speaker 1: No meaningful policies get implemented, and cops don't change their behavior. 630 00:35:16,320 --> 00:35:21,640 Speaker 1: So where do we go from here? In your opinion? Um, 631 00:35:21,680 --> 00:35:25,680 Speaker 1: as you say, we marched, we protest, We uh, we 632 00:35:25,840 --> 00:35:30,719 Speaker 1: become social media activists? What the hell is that? Back 633 00:35:30,719 --> 00:35:35,520 Speaker 1: in the day we called them armchair revolutionaries, um and worse. 634 00:35:35,680 --> 00:35:39,000 Speaker 1: But I'll just leave it at that um and we 635 00:35:39,040 --> 00:35:43,279 Speaker 1: do nothing in terms of real, real change. But there 636 00:35:43,320 --> 00:35:45,239 Speaker 1: you know, the question is what is real change? And 637 00:35:45,280 --> 00:35:47,719 Speaker 1: how can we make bring about real change? What does 638 00:35:47,719 --> 00:35:50,800 Speaker 1: that mean? And it's a long processes of four hundreds 639 00:35:50,840 --> 00:35:53,960 Speaker 1: of year old country. So we can't just like, oh, 640 00:35:54,000 --> 00:35:56,840 Speaker 1: I'm gonna click my click my fingers together when I 641 00:35:56,880 --> 00:36:00,120 Speaker 1: adjusted heels and hey to go away. And then any 642 00:36:00,120 --> 00:36:02,239 Speaker 1: times in a Black Panther Party, we used to say 643 00:36:02,280 --> 00:36:05,640 Speaker 1: revolution in our lifetime, revolution in our lifetime. Stokely Carmichael 644 00:36:05,719 --> 00:36:08,680 Speaker 1: then who became point to Ray Black Panthers, we all 645 00:36:08,719 --> 00:36:11,480 Speaker 1: said revolutionary because we really believe that now that we 646 00:36:11,600 --> 00:36:15,600 Speaker 1: knew what was wrong, we would fight and everything would 647 00:36:15,640 --> 00:36:18,640 Speaker 1: change and somehow it would change. But even though we 648 00:36:18,680 --> 00:36:22,040 Speaker 1: had an incorrect analysis, it probably motivated us to do 649 00:36:22,120 --> 00:36:26,520 Speaker 1: more then just sit around and do nothing. The example 650 00:36:26,560 --> 00:36:28,960 Speaker 1: of the Black Panther Party, I think it's relevant, not 651 00:36:29,120 --> 00:36:32,840 Speaker 1: because I'm promoting and being self promoting even but because 652 00:36:32,880 --> 00:36:35,319 Speaker 1: I think that the actions that we put into place 653 00:36:35,440 --> 00:36:40,759 Speaker 1: driven by revolutionary ideology. We were Marxist Leninists. We were 654 00:36:40,840 --> 00:36:44,320 Speaker 1: Marxist the Black Panther Party. Now nobody realizes that or 655 00:36:44,360 --> 00:36:45,799 Speaker 1: a lot of people don't They thought were some kind 656 00:36:45,840 --> 00:36:48,760 Speaker 1: of nationalists or some kind of you know, like anti 657 00:36:48,840 --> 00:36:51,560 Speaker 1: white whatever that is. We were not anti anything pro black. 658 00:36:51,640 --> 00:36:55,279 Speaker 1: We love, we said, as putting check OVERA true revolutionary 659 00:36:55,320 --> 00:36:57,399 Speaker 1: is guided by great feelings of love. So we love 660 00:36:57,440 --> 00:36:59,960 Speaker 1: black people. So we want to bring about black liberate 661 00:37:00,520 --> 00:37:03,000 Speaker 1: but we recognize that we have to create the conditions 662 00:37:03,000 --> 00:37:06,080 Speaker 1: for that to happen. So what did we do. We 663 00:37:06,120 --> 00:37:09,200 Speaker 1: did any number of things to organize our own people 664 00:37:09,719 --> 00:37:12,440 Speaker 1: and to begin to create the conditions, to educate people 665 00:37:12,440 --> 00:37:16,040 Speaker 1: so that we could create a mass of people that 666 00:37:16,040 --> 00:37:20,880 Speaker 1: would embrace revolutionary principles and ultimately bring about the revolution. Remember, 667 00:37:20,920 --> 00:37:22,920 Speaker 1: there was no blueprint. This is the most powerful country 668 00:37:22,920 --> 00:37:24,760 Speaker 1: in the world, not, in fact, the most powerful country 669 00:37:24,760 --> 00:37:27,280 Speaker 1: in the history of the world. It is indeed an empire. 670 00:37:27,440 --> 00:37:31,799 Speaker 1: It is not a country, and everything that's here in 671 00:37:31,840 --> 00:37:35,080 Speaker 1: the world is a subject of this empire, including China. 672 00:37:35,160 --> 00:37:38,840 Speaker 1: Bad as it is right, what the Chinese gonna do 673 00:37:38,840 --> 00:37:45,480 Speaker 1: if the Americans start talking really crazy? Nothing? So what 674 00:37:45,520 --> 00:37:48,000 Speaker 1: do we do is to say, is there a blueprint 675 00:37:48,080 --> 00:37:52,440 Speaker 1: for for for for revolution? Well there isn't. Well, I'm 676 00:37:52,440 --> 00:37:54,000 Speaker 1: gonna be in a march and some ship that is 677 00:37:54,040 --> 00:37:57,680 Speaker 1: gonna change. Really, let's live in the big real world 678 00:37:57,719 --> 00:38:02,080 Speaker 1: here now. It's so we can't say, well, let's just 679 00:38:02,160 --> 00:38:05,400 Speaker 1: go storm uh you know something, and take it over. 680 00:38:05,400 --> 00:38:09,080 Speaker 1: You're not gonna take over anything in a one moment event. 681 00:38:09,600 --> 00:38:11,239 Speaker 1: This is not gonna be an event. You're gonna have 682 00:38:11,320 --> 00:38:15,040 Speaker 1: to move and organize and it's a long haul. But 683 00:38:15,160 --> 00:38:17,920 Speaker 1: this was a long march in the first place. Going 684 00:38:18,000 --> 00:38:21,080 Speaker 1: back to the slaves who jumped overboard, who slipped, they 685 00:38:21,160 --> 00:38:23,320 Speaker 1: used to have in all the slave ships. They began 686 00:38:23,360 --> 00:38:26,959 Speaker 1: to build protections around the captain and everything else because 687 00:38:27,000 --> 00:38:29,040 Speaker 1: they might get their throats slip. These people weren't on 688 00:38:29,040 --> 00:38:32,359 Speaker 1: the boat just saying oki doki. Once they got to drill. 689 00:38:32,440 --> 00:38:34,239 Speaker 1: And after you see so many ships come and not 690 00:38:34,320 --> 00:38:37,279 Speaker 1: come back with your folks, you recognize what's getting ready 691 00:38:37,280 --> 00:38:40,600 Speaker 1: to happen to you. Right as a slave African with 692 00:38:40,640 --> 00:38:43,719 Speaker 1: all the so called castles, which I find incredible, which 693 00:38:43,760 --> 00:38:46,160 Speaker 1: the Europeans built because they weren't going into the bush 694 00:38:46,160 --> 00:38:49,040 Speaker 1: to pick up no good strong young men and women 695 00:38:49,680 --> 00:38:52,239 Speaker 1: who could bring them babies and bend their backs for 696 00:38:52,320 --> 00:38:56,400 Speaker 1: whatever they had to do. It's hard to talk about sometimes, 697 00:38:56,480 --> 00:39:01,960 Speaker 1: isn't it. Yeah, you've got a four years plus history 698 00:39:02,040 --> 00:39:09,920 Speaker 1: of America doing violent, murderous acts, brutal almost there's almost 699 00:39:09,960 --> 00:39:15,520 Speaker 1: no word that can explain the sins of America from 700 00:39:15,520 --> 00:39:19,360 Speaker 1: the beginning, from the beginning. Now, you can't just undo 701 00:39:19,360 --> 00:39:22,480 Speaker 1: that by saying, well, we're gonna march and we put 702 00:39:22,480 --> 00:39:26,239 Speaker 1: out some social media hashtags. You know you're kidding. So 703 00:39:26,880 --> 00:39:29,720 Speaker 1: the question is what do you do? Well, the first 704 00:39:29,760 --> 00:39:33,560 Speaker 1: thing we have to do is make a commitment to change. 705 00:39:33,680 --> 00:39:35,960 Speaker 1: You can't be casual about let me go home, but 706 00:39:36,040 --> 00:39:40,360 Speaker 1: you get my point. So we have to make a decision. 707 00:39:40,480 --> 00:39:45,239 Speaker 1: Is this action a valid action that it may lead 708 00:39:45,520 --> 00:39:48,320 Speaker 1: to organizing people or educating people, so it may be 709 00:39:48,480 --> 00:39:51,920 Speaker 1: worth something. In other words, you put some placards out there, 710 00:39:52,120 --> 00:39:55,239 Speaker 1: you put some social media posts out there, and you 711 00:39:55,320 --> 00:39:58,040 Speaker 1: get the attention of people that like the George Floyd thing. 712 00:39:58,640 --> 00:40:02,279 Speaker 1: Now that probably had a consciousness raising things. Now, what 713 00:40:02,320 --> 00:40:04,719 Speaker 1: do you do with that? We don't know that for 714 00:40:04,760 --> 00:40:09,439 Speaker 1: that one minute in the universe of time. We all 715 00:40:09,520 --> 00:40:12,360 Speaker 1: learned that the police can be brutal. So I'm working 716 00:40:12,400 --> 00:40:15,880 Speaker 1: on reopening the case of Oscar Grant who was murdered 717 00:40:15,880 --> 00:40:19,600 Speaker 1: here in Oakland by the bart police. Bart being Berry 718 00:40:19,680 --> 00:40:24,680 Speaker 1: rappit transit and there was a second cop who literally 719 00:40:24,840 --> 00:40:29,160 Speaker 1: beat Oscar up and cause have brain injury and everything else. 720 00:40:29,480 --> 00:40:32,279 Speaker 1: So we just got a copy, meaning the world of 721 00:40:32,360 --> 00:40:36,040 Speaker 1: the autops. Think about it for a minute. We just 722 00:40:36,120 --> 00:40:39,840 Speaker 1: got information that Perroni did this and this and the 723 00:40:39,880 --> 00:40:43,200 Speaker 1: other from a report that was done and was never published. 724 00:40:43,239 --> 00:40:47,960 Speaker 1: And it took a news organization to force that report 725 00:40:48,040 --> 00:40:51,480 Speaker 1: to be published. So that's a good action. In other words, 726 00:40:51,880 --> 00:40:55,600 Speaker 1: even the news group is getting information so that the 727 00:40:55,680 --> 00:40:58,200 Speaker 1: public can have it, so that we can become conscious. 728 00:40:58,640 --> 00:41:01,359 Speaker 1: All of these things are in port, but they can't 729 00:41:01,360 --> 00:41:04,400 Speaker 1: be done in isolation. That's why we had a newspaper 730 00:41:04,400 --> 00:41:06,719 Speaker 1: and Black Panther party, We had a school of our 731 00:41:07,440 --> 00:41:09,920 Speaker 1: We fed teeth, but we did we covered all of 732 00:41:09,960 --> 00:41:13,719 Speaker 1: these things because they have to work in concert. So 733 00:41:13,840 --> 00:41:16,200 Speaker 1: that's a part of what we can be doing is 734 00:41:16,280 --> 00:41:19,640 Speaker 1: really focusing. But we gotta you gotta put time into this, 735 00:41:19,719 --> 00:41:23,120 Speaker 1: and if you don't put time into it, then you 736 00:41:23,120 --> 00:41:27,000 Speaker 1: won't get anything. This is a solid structure. It is 737 00:41:27,040 --> 00:41:29,520 Speaker 1: not going to be disrupted. Joe Biden is not disrupted. 738 00:41:29,560 --> 00:41:32,960 Speaker 1: He just got rid of about a real, real nagging 739 00:41:33,880 --> 00:41:37,680 Speaker 1: painting the ass. But you've got to educate yourselves. If 740 00:41:37,719 --> 00:41:39,880 Speaker 1: you want to address this system, you can't look at 741 00:41:39,920 --> 00:41:43,080 Speaker 1: TV and think George Floyda is a problem. He's emblemagic 742 00:41:43,280 --> 00:41:46,120 Speaker 1: of the problem, and you have to know what the 743 00:41:46,160 --> 00:41:49,400 Speaker 1: problem is. So we have to study, we have to organize, 744 00:41:49,800 --> 00:41:51,719 Speaker 1: and we have to have the will and the commitment 745 00:41:51,760 --> 00:41:55,920 Speaker 1: to make change. So, Elaine, we're out of time, But 746 00:41:55,960 --> 00:41:59,200 Speaker 1: I just wanted to ask one last question. Absolutely, I'll 747 00:41:59,200 --> 00:42:04,600 Speaker 1: try to debriefing so I know that this is a 748 00:42:04,840 --> 00:42:11,200 Speaker 1: forever fight, and well it feels that way for certain Um, 749 00:42:11,239 --> 00:42:14,560 Speaker 1: I just want to know, how do you keep hope 750 00:42:14,600 --> 00:42:17,640 Speaker 1: and do you think that there are any people in 751 00:42:17,680 --> 00:42:26,440 Speaker 1: the right the proper positions to actually create permanent change. Well, 752 00:42:27,760 --> 00:42:29,840 Speaker 1: I'm always gonna be hopeful, because if I didn't have 753 00:42:29,880 --> 00:42:32,640 Speaker 1: hope and I've changed cynical, it will be the point 754 00:42:32,640 --> 00:42:35,440 Speaker 1: of anything, will be the point in my life. I 755 00:42:35,480 --> 00:42:40,440 Speaker 1: do believe because evidence supports what I believe, that human 756 00:42:40,480 --> 00:42:47,120 Speaker 1: beings lean towards being what we would call moral caring 757 00:42:47,160 --> 00:42:49,920 Speaker 1: about each other only because we don't have no goddamn choice. 758 00:42:50,120 --> 00:42:52,680 Speaker 1: And one of the things this pandemic is showing is 759 00:42:52,680 --> 00:42:56,279 Speaker 1: that most people really do want to do the right thing. 760 00:42:57,360 --> 00:43:00,959 Speaker 1: So I have hope because I see them. But as 761 00:43:01,080 --> 00:43:06,400 Speaker 1: the divide gets bigger, and it is getting bigger, ironic, 762 00:43:06,520 --> 00:43:09,560 Speaker 1: incredibly so that the top one per cent are so 763 00:43:09,760 --> 00:43:13,239 Speaker 1: goddamn rich, and the others, then you're gonna get the 764 00:43:13,239 --> 00:43:15,200 Speaker 1: people who skim off a little bit bit of cream, 765 00:43:15,200 --> 00:43:17,480 Speaker 1: and they're all right with that. But the majority of 766 00:43:17,480 --> 00:43:19,839 Speaker 1: people are getting poorer while the rich get richer, as 767 00:43:19,880 --> 00:43:23,600 Speaker 1: the old statement used to say. And I believe that 768 00:43:23,680 --> 00:43:27,920 Speaker 1: therefore the conditions can be ripe again to resurrect a 769 00:43:28,000 --> 00:43:30,480 Speaker 1: real movement. I don't know that they're right right now. 770 00:43:30,640 --> 00:43:34,080 Speaker 1: Right right now, people are angry. People are angry. They 771 00:43:34,080 --> 00:43:36,440 Speaker 1: don't have housing. That's a big one. They don't have, 772 00:43:37,080 --> 00:43:39,520 Speaker 1: you know, anything. They're angry about those two issues, housing 773 00:43:39,520 --> 00:43:42,440 Speaker 1: and police brutality. They don't know what to do. And 774 00:43:42,440 --> 00:43:47,239 Speaker 1: that's because there's no organization to make it real that 775 00:43:47,280 --> 00:43:49,839 Speaker 1: you can gom onto. That's why people still talk about 776 00:43:49,840 --> 00:43:52,719 Speaker 1: the Black Panther Party. Here we are. I'm already told 777 00:43:52,719 --> 00:43:57,319 Speaker 1: you Black Panther Party hasn't existed, and yet we're still 778 00:43:57,360 --> 00:44:00,440 Speaker 1: held up as a model for what we should do, 779 00:44:00,560 --> 00:44:02,680 Speaker 1: should do. You got all these ridiculous movies out. I 780 00:44:02,719 --> 00:44:05,320 Speaker 1: don't want to talk about them, uh and other stuff. 781 00:44:05,360 --> 00:44:10,480 Speaker 1: But the point is I have hope that what I've 782 00:44:10,480 --> 00:44:13,680 Speaker 1: committed my life too is meaningful, not because it's my life, 783 00:44:13,719 --> 00:44:16,000 Speaker 1: because at the end of the day, this was a ride. 784 00:44:16,600 --> 00:44:19,480 Speaker 1: It was it was a crapshoot the whole way. I 785 00:44:19,520 --> 00:44:21,760 Speaker 1: want to know that every day I put in work, 786 00:44:22,400 --> 00:44:24,799 Speaker 1: even at this stage, even if it doesn't even matter 787 00:44:24,880 --> 00:44:28,160 Speaker 1: that much, I put in that work because I believe 788 00:44:28,200 --> 00:44:30,319 Speaker 1: in what I'm saying, and so I have to have 789 00:44:30,440 --> 00:44:34,880 Speaker 1: hope that um change will come and that somewhere in 790 00:44:34,920 --> 00:44:38,040 Speaker 1: the universe. The other part is it's either gonna come 791 00:44:38,160 --> 00:44:42,080 Speaker 1: or there won't be any earth, so it doesn't really matter. 792 00:44:42,239 --> 00:44:45,719 Speaker 1: But it's can't go on like this because we have 793 00:44:45,920 --> 00:44:48,920 Speaker 1: the capacity to kill each other and wipe each other 794 00:44:48,960 --> 00:44:53,080 Speaker 1: out holy and completely. Environmental problems may kill us before 795 00:44:53,520 --> 00:44:56,759 Speaker 1: a bomb. So what is my hope. My hope is 796 00:44:56,800 --> 00:44:59,719 Speaker 1: that the people of the world, at some point that 797 00:45:00,040 --> 00:45:03,920 Speaker 1: I bit, will begin to see each other as human 798 00:45:03,960 --> 00:45:06,760 Speaker 1: beings on this planet, that we are part of the planet. 799 00:45:06,960 --> 00:45:09,279 Speaker 1: We don't even know what's out there yet, So I 800 00:45:09,320 --> 00:45:12,760 Speaker 1: believe that conditions will be right. And as my friend 801 00:45:13,000 --> 00:45:15,880 Speaker 1: Jamie Alamin Jamiel Abdulah al Amin, who used to be 802 00:45:15,920 --> 00:45:19,279 Speaker 1: a trapped brown when Snick was around, and very very 803 00:45:19,320 --> 00:45:23,800 Speaker 1: powerful speaker, very powerful organizer, committed to the struggle, still 804 00:45:23,840 --> 00:45:27,359 Speaker 1: in prison after twenty years. Now, as he said to me, 805 00:45:27,600 --> 00:45:31,479 Speaker 1: you know, sister, I know this that the pendulum will 806 00:45:31,520 --> 00:45:34,200 Speaker 1: swing our way again, because life is like that. Life 807 00:45:34,280 --> 00:45:37,040 Speaker 1: is not static, and when it does, you'll be ready. 808 00:45:37,440 --> 00:45:40,319 Speaker 1: So even if the conditions aren't there, you stay on 809 00:45:40,520 --> 00:45:43,439 Speaker 1: keeping on, keep keep on keeping on, and you will 810 00:45:43,520 --> 00:45:46,759 Speaker 1: find that'll be a new set of conditions. And if not, 811 00:45:47,000 --> 00:45:49,160 Speaker 1: then I gave it my best, and that I gave 812 00:45:49,200 --> 00:45:51,080 Speaker 1: it my owl, not my best, my old. I gave 813 00:45:51,120 --> 00:45:54,239 Speaker 1: everything I had. So if if I passed out of 814 00:45:54,239 --> 00:45:57,120 Speaker 1: this life before some new thing happens, or some bigger 815 00:45:57,680 --> 00:46:02,600 Speaker 1: change element occurs or conditions change, I'll be all right 816 00:46:02,640 --> 00:46:04,759 Speaker 1: with it. I'll be all right because I know that 817 00:46:04,880 --> 00:46:08,640 Speaker 1: life will continue itself. It either will continue itself or 818 00:46:08,680 --> 00:46:11,080 Speaker 1: we'll all perish, and that will be the end of 819 00:46:11,120 --> 00:46:15,440 Speaker 1: that amazing. Thank you so much, Elaine, Thank you for 820 00:46:15,520 --> 00:46:17,680 Speaker 1: all the work that you do, and thank you for 821 00:46:17,680 --> 00:46:20,839 Speaker 1: coming on. We really appreciate it, We really do. Thank 822 00:46:20,880 --> 00:46:22,920 Speaker 1: you so much. All right, young ladies and thank you 823 00:46:22,960 --> 00:46:58,040 Speaker 1: for having it. No happy okay okay yoah the law 824 00:46:58,080 --> 00:47:07,920 Speaker 1: about I'm ever so sappy. Repercussions beyond the Path Yeah uh. 825 00:47:08,960 --> 00:47:14,680 Speaker 1: Will Packer was acutive producer James Lopez, I wasacutive producer 826 00:47:15,560 --> 00:47:22,000 Speaker 1: behind Jack Levy, executive producer and director Let's Go Dominique, 827 00:47:22,440 --> 00:47:27,799 Speaker 1: Move Time, Yeah Now, creator and writer, producer Your Baby 828 00:47:28,239 --> 00:47:36,160 Speaker 1: You Need Hello, Hello, Whitney Fuller, creative executive Michael keith Berg, 829 00:47:36,840 --> 00:47:43,920 Speaker 1: co producer, Carrell Alexis, recording mixer, sound design, Ross Davis, 830 00:47:44,480 --> 00:47:50,919 Speaker 1: Audio Consultan, music supervisor Jeff Forster, music by Deaf, Jeff Boy, 831 00:47:51,760 --> 00:47:58,200 Speaker 1: Joe Wolf, Tony Homer, Score Mingers Hayes Ramsay Production assistant 832 00:47:58,480 --> 00:48:05,799 Speaker 1: Junior Ron Products and Assistance. You didn't main cats now 833 00:48:07,200 --> 00:48:13,520 Speaker 1: you did? I Yeah and the Alonza plays Blue lack 834 00:48:14,520 --> 00:48:21,719 Speaker 1: Elaine Brown playing as a Lane Brown, Jacksie Boyd as 835 00:48:21,840 --> 00:48:31,239 Speaker 1: Jennifer Come on, you did, Yeah, Robbie Jarvis Owen at 836 00:48:34,120 --> 00:48:43,800 Speaker 1: Ron Destiny plays Rebecta. You didn't, Yeah, seek Alton additional voices. 837 00:48:45,880 --> 00:48:51,400 Speaker 1: You didn't shouts out, so it was missing town Benny's 838 00:48:51,440 --> 00:48:59,120 Speaker 1: baby you know for real though, somebody podcast stage Yeah, 839 00:49:00,120 --> 00:49:04,479 Speaker 1: Just being a wild packer of media production I heart 840 00:49:04,640 --> 00:49:09,799 Speaker 1: production and I am that boy Drew rap. You want 841 00:49:09,800 --> 00:49:12,600 Speaker 1: to know me? No phony in Macro run Let's go. 842 00:49:13,719 --> 00:49:20,200 Speaker 1: That's an additional voice. Yeah, I want to know more 843 00:49:20,239 --> 00:49:20,479 Speaker 1: about