WEBVTT - QLS Classic: Michael McDonald 0:00:00.480 --> 0:00:04.200 Quest Love Supreme is a production of iHeartRadio. This classic 0:00:04.280 --> 0:00:09.600 episode was produced by the team at Pandora. Ladies and Gentlemen, 0:00:09.680 --> 0:00:13.720 What is Up? This is Quest Love Supreme Classic. 0:00:13.960 --> 0:00:16.840 I gotta say this is probably. 0:00:17.160 --> 0:00:23.880 One of my favorite favorite episodes of this entire podcast, 0:00:24.040 --> 0:00:27.680 and I have a lot, But what can you say 0:00:27.680 --> 0:00:29.880 about the genius of Michael McDonald. 0:00:30.400 --> 0:00:31.280 We were not ready? 0:00:31.560 --> 0:00:34.040 Actually I think actually Fante steals. 0:00:33.760 --> 0:00:38.080 The steals the show in this episode with his total 0:00:38.280 --> 0:00:42.599 rendition of the Al Dunbar. What's happening Doobie Brothers episode? 0:00:43.000 --> 0:00:46.080 No more spoiler alerts. Let's just get into it. From 0:00:46.360 --> 0:00:51.040 October twenty fifth, twenty seventeen. This is the classic Michael 0:00:51.120 --> 0:00:53.360 McDonald episode Quest Love. 0:00:53.640 --> 0:00:55.360 So all right? 0:00:55.440 --> 0:01:19.560 That was mine Michael McDonald imitation than Supremo. 0:01:10.600 --> 0:01:19.640 Suprema role called premo something suprema role called Suprema Supremo. 0:01:19.240 --> 0:01:23.360 Role, the grand I can listen one table Suprema roll 0:01:24.280 --> 0:01:27.120 this Quest Love Yeah, a k A best love. 0:01:27.400 --> 0:01:29.400 Yeah, I'm so chill love. 0:01:29.440 --> 0:01:30.440 Yeah, because. 0:01:32.360 --> 0:01:39.440 Supreme Supremo role call agreement Suprema role. 0:01:39.440 --> 0:01:40.840 Called My name is Fante? 0:01:41.240 --> 0:01:41.440 Yeah. 0:01:41.640 --> 0:01:44.240 You don't have to run fall because this show is 0:01:44.240 --> 0:01:55.440 getting bootleg by Alba, Suprema, Supremo. 0:01:55.000 --> 0:01:59.920 Role Michael McDonald, We're here to meet him. Yeah, mine 0:02:00.080 --> 0:02:03.280 name is Sugar John Sweet Free. 0:02:06.160 --> 0:02:14.520 Supremo, rorem Supremo, roll Clear, Black Knight, Yeah Clear, White Moon. 0:02:15.200 --> 0:02:17.840 Yeah, Boss Bill was on the streets. Oh wait, that 0:02:17.960 --> 0:02:18.440 was Warren Ge. 0:02:18.639 --> 0:02:25.040 Sorry, Supremo Roll Supreme. 0:02:26.080 --> 0:02:33.280 Supremo rolls like and I'm quite smitten. Yeah, Michael McDonald, Yeah, 0:02:33.560 --> 0:02:35.080 I keep forgetting. 0:02:44.560 --> 0:02:46.679 This this mcdee. Yeah, it's it's me. 0:02:47.200 --> 0:02:47.399 Yeah. 0:02:47.600 --> 0:02:50.880 Does anybody have the time, Yeah, that's all I gotta say. 0:02:53.120 --> 0:02:56.120 Supremo, roll, So. 0:02:58.040 --> 0:03:17.120 Supremo, Roll Supremo, Supremo roa. 0:03:10.560 --> 0:03:16.280 Sorryte, I knew you're going, Oh, what's happening? 0:03:16.400 --> 0:03:16.880 Reference? 0:03:18.200 --> 0:03:18.639 What that was? 0:03:18.720 --> 0:03:23.240 I wasn ball dune ball, Okay, I'm gonna. 0:03:24.760 --> 0:03:25.239 Episode. 0:03:25.800 --> 0:03:32.560 I have to admit that I spent three hours in 0:03:32.800 --> 0:03:35.360 bed trying to think of the perfect. 0:03:36.880 --> 0:03:40.040 Reference, like for. 0:03:40.120 --> 0:03:43.480 Real, from like three in the morning, maybe, Like I 0:03:43.600 --> 0:03:46.400 dozed off at six. I had nothing, man, man, and 0:03:46.480 --> 0:03:49.680 I was like, I know, Fante is gonna have ye. 0:03:50.080 --> 0:03:52.400 I was gonna I was gonna put a tape recorder 0:03:52.400 --> 0:03:55.000 in my down to fall out. 0:03:56.760 --> 0:03:58.240 Had elaborate scheme. 0:03:58.000 --> 0:04:01.640 Where I was gonna you know, I didn't even remember 0:04:01.680 --> 0:04:02.080 that one. 0:04:03.240 --> 0:04:04.080 Ruled our lives. 0:04:04.240 --> 0:04:08.280 Oh man, Ladies and gentlemen, our guest today is probably 0:04:08.440 --> 0:04:12.840 the most beloved figure in the recording industry. I'll probably 0:04:12.880 --> 0:04:15.840 go as far as to say that he's probably in 0:04:16.000 --> 0:04:21.640 everyone's top three greatest blue eyed soul singers of all time. 0:04:21.920 --> 0:04:27.040 I personally believe that he possesses possibly the most influential, 0:04:27.200 --> 0:04:33.680 most imitated vibrato tenor. And you know, from his years 0:04:33.720 --> 0:04:38.360 as an honorary Steely Danian and a member of the 0:04:38.440 --> 0:04:43.320 Doobie Brothers, not to mention his solo work, Michael McDonald 0:04:43.520 --> 0:04:48.800 is a pop culture god amongst mortal men, you know, 0:04:48.880 --> 0:04:51.680 and his brand stretches way beyond just singing and songwriting. 0:04:51.720 --> 0:04:53.760 I mean, he's he's damn near a lifestyle. 0:04:54.480 --> 0:04:57.560 Ladies and gentlemen, police, welcome to questlov Supreme, the god 0:04:57.640 --> 0:04:59.960 himself Michael McDonald. 0:05:00.120 --> 0:05:04.799 Yeah, oh my god, So thanks for having. 0:05:04.640 --> 0:05:08.919 Me, guys, Thank you? Uh are you? Are you thrown 0:05:09.000 --> 0:05:14.560 off by the fan worship thrown at you today? 0:05:15.000 --> 0:05:18.960 Like? Because I feel like anytime, especially when I see you, 0:05:20.680 --> 0:05:24.080 I don't know if it's like you feel like it's 0:05:24.240 --> 0:05:26.880 a genuine appreciation for your work or is it like, 0:05:27.440 --> 0:05:33.000 is this the variety ironic embracing of you know, my work? 0:05:33.120 --> 0:05:36.360 Like are you genuine or is it just coming from 0:05:36.360 --> 0:05:39.160 an ironic comedy level? Like how do you how do 0:05:39.240 --> 0:05:42.839 you feel when people, especially millennials are coming to you and. 0:05:43.920 --> 0:05:47.720 Well, you know, it's it's all flattering, really. I mean, 0:05:47.839 --> 0:05:49.520 you know, I always told my son, when you know, 0:05:49.560 --> 0:05:52.440 when your music is no more, no longer relevant, your 0:05:52.560 --> 0:05:56.320 pathetic comic value might be. So you know, you to 0:05:56.400 --> 0:05:59.520 go with it, you know, just you got to take 0:05:59.520 --> 0:06:01.320 what you can get when you can get it. But uh, 0:06:01.720 --> 0:06:06.520 I I'm enjoying myself these days. You know. It's we've 0:06:06.560 --> 0:06:09.800 been out there long enough doing this that no one's 0:06:09.839 --> 0:06:11.920 more amazed than me that we're still doing it at 0:06:11.960 --> 0:06:14.840 our age, you know. And but it's still fun, you know, 0:06:15.040 --> 0:06:17.559 And I still love playing live, and I love playing 0:06:17.600 --> 0:06:19.560 with you guys, you know, looking forward to it. 0:06:19.720 --> 0:06:23.520 We enjoyed it too, because I didn't know. I know that. 0:06:25.200 --> 0:06:28.640 One of the times that you visited the show. I 0:06:28.800 --> 0:06:34.000 know that you know, you came with Donald Figan. You know, 0:06:34.440 --> 0:06:36.960 he was sort of like, are they clowning us? Or 0:06:37.040 --> 0:06:40.640 are they actually respecting us? And you know I was 0:06:40.839 --> 0:06:43.320 we were so thrown off because it's like, yo, he 0:06:43.440 --> 0:06:45.840 doesn't know that we like, this is what we worship, 0:06:45.960 --> 0:06:46.480 you know what I mean? 0:06:46.640 --> 0:06:49.040 And it's not because I know about you know, yacht 0:06:49.120 --> 0:06:50.040 rock culture and all. 0:06:49.960 --> 0:06:53.480 Those comedy bits on online, and it could seem like 0:06:53.560 --> 0:06:55.960 it's from a joky angle. But I always wondered, like, 0:06:56.040 --> 0:06:59.240 what was your personal perspective and as far as like 0:07:00.200 --> 0:07:03.040 do you think it's just novelty or or any of 0:07:03.080 --> 0:07:03.520 those things? 0:07:03.600 --> 0:07:06.360 So you know, I I I always enjoyed it and 0:07:06.600 --> 0:07:09.040 and I had fun that that night, but I did 0:07:10.320 --> 0:07:12.440 I don't think the other guys enjoyed it as. 0:07:12.440 --> 0:07:18.200 Much as I said, So, well, thank you. So you 0:07:18.760 --> 0:07:20.400 started out in Saint Louis, right you. 0:07:20.640 --> 0:07:21.960 I grew up in Ferguson. 0:07:22.040 --> 0:07:27.120 Yeah, wow, raising yes, can you talk about that? Because 0:07:27.200 --> 0:07:29.240 literally my mother is born and raised in Saint Louis 0:07:29.280 --> 0:07:31.080 And I called her this morning because I was like, Mommy, 0:07:31.080 --> 0:07:32.720 did you know Michael McDonald's and Saint Louis And she 0:07:32.800 --> 0:07:34.240 was like no. I said, well, this is interesting because 0:07:34.280 --> 0:07:36.920 y'all around the same age growing up in Saint Louis 0:07:37.120 --> 0:07:40.200 very polarized. Ferguson maybe not be the Ferguson that we 0:07:40.320 --> 0:07:40.880 know today. 0:07:41.120 --> 0:07:44.520 No, that's right, you know, I mean, uh, that's you know, 0:07:44.800 --> 0:07:47.640 the in where the conversation is at this point today 0:07:47.920 --> 0:07:50.080 is is exactly where it needs to be, you know. 0:07:50.200 --> 0:07:53.920 I mean, uh, I think in the sixties, we all 0:07:54.080 --> 0:07:56.240 really believed that we were going to be the generation 0:07:56.440 --> 0:08:00.840 that didn't leave the burden on our next generation of 0:08:01.440 --> 0:08:06.320 racism in America, you know, and unfortunately that hasn't proven 0:08:06.360 --> 0:08:08.800 to be true. You know, as much as we'd all 0:08:08.880 --> 0:08:11.520 like to think, I think we made great strides because 0:08:11.560 --> 0:08:14.920 I remember Ferguson in the late fifties, right, talk. 0:08:14.760 --> 0:08:16.600 About it because people it's probably totally different. 0:08:16.720 --> 0:08:20.720 Oh yeah, you know, I mean, you know it was 0:08:20.760 --> 0:08:23.160 apartheid is really what it was, you know, I mean 0:08:23.520 --> 0:08:26.160 nothing less. You know, when you if you were black 0:08:26.360 --> 0:08:31.760 in America in a small town like Ferguson, and if 0:08:31.960 --> 0:08:36.199 you know, it was you were not allowed to live 0:08:36.240 --> 0:08:42.000 in the mainstream. You were ostracized from mainstream society, plain 0:08:42.080 --> 0:08:45.160 and simple. You couldn't walk into the dairy queen without 0:08:45.400 --> 0:08:47.040 causing a stir, you know what I mean. It was. 0:08:48.080 --> 0:08:50.160 And I remember as a kid, you know, that wasn't 0:08:50.240 --> 0:08:52.360 lost on me. I remember, you know, like laying awake 0:08:52.400 --> 0:08:55.720 at night. My two great fears were they were going 0:08:55.800 --> 0:08:59.400 to drop the bomb, and I remember thinking, you know, 0:08:59.559 --> 0:09:01.960 I could have been born black. It's like fifty to fifty, 0:09:02.080 --> 0:09:07.800 you know, and I just didn't understand why the things 0:09:07.880 --> 0:09:12.400 were the way they were, you know. But you know, 0:09:13.200 --> 0:09:15.240 even you know the fact that the reason I mentioned 0:09:15.400 --> 0:09:17.079 is like that it wouldn't even be lost on a 0:09:17.120 --> 0:09:18.800 four year old kid or a five year old kid. 0:09:19.280 --> 0:09:21.560 You know, at the earliest ages, we look at our 0:09:21.600 --> 0:09:25.199 society around us in surprising ways and we go, what 0:09:25.320 --> 0:09:27.679 does this all mean? Why? Why is this this way? 0:09:27.720 --> 0:09:29.959 Why is it that way? And why don't adults do 0:09:30.120 --> 0:09:34.760 something about it? Why don't adults make this right? You know? 0:09:36.480 --> 0:09:40.080 And so we start right there understanding that adults don't 0:09:40.160 --> 0:09:42.920 make things right, you know, that adults don't do the 0:09:43.040 --> 0:09:46.880 right thing, you know, And and so that we spend 0:09:46.880 --> 0:09:49.160 the rest of our lives just kind of, you know, 0:09:49.920 --> 0:09:54.760 compromising with that, you know, and you know, understanding it's 0:09:54.800 --> 0:09:58.480 not a perfect world. But you know, it's funny because 0:09:58.520 --> 0:10:02.199 you know, for all the press that Ferguson gotten, it's 0:10:02.200 --> 0:10:04.360 a great town. It's it's a better town than it 0:10:04.480 --> 0:10:05.800 was when I was a kid. I mean, in so 0:10:05.880 --> 0:10:07.520 many ways. I mean, I go back there a bit, 0:10:07.679 --> 0:10:09.520 quite a bit. You know, I don't live there anymore, 0:10:09.559 --> 0:10:13.520 but when I lived there, it was post war, and 0:10:14.240 --> 0:10:17.080 you know, the downturn in the American economy was something 0:10:17.120 --> 0:10:19.719 people don't remember. But after the war, it was like 0:10:20.440 --> 0:10:22.400 a lot of small towns like that kind of went 0:10:22.520 --> 0:10:25.400 into depression. You know, a lot of the mom and 0:10:25.520 --> 0:10:28.400 pop stores closed up, and Ferguson, you know, had had 0:10:28.679 --> 0:10:31.559 suffered that, like a lot of places until the suburbs 0:10:31.600 --> 0:10:34.520 took over, you know, and shopping malls and stuff like that, 0:10:34.640 --> 0:10:38.560 and that pretty much killed, you know, communities like Ferguson. 0:10:39.040 --> 0:10:40.839 So I grew up in that period where you know, 0:10:40.920 --> 0:10:43.000 you walk down main Street Ferguson, it wasn't much going on. 0:10:43.200 --> 0:10:46.800 You know. Today it's it's a it's you know a 0:10:46.840 --> 0:10:50.760 lot more of an economic upturn, you know. And so 0:10:52.040 --> 0:10:54.559 you know, I think what we got to really do 0:10:54.880 --> 0:10:58.559 as a society is learned to have the conversation. You know, 0:10:58.640 --> 0:11:01.040 it's like that what's going on right now with the NFL, 0:11:01.160 --> 0:11:04.120 and you know, we got to we you know, unfortunately, 0:11:04.160 --> 0:11:06.640 we have a guy at the Helm who wants to 0:11:07.120 --> 0:11:10.439 stir it up and be divisive. You know, that's a shame, 0:11:10.559 --> 0:11:13.480 because this is the perfect opportunity for the conversation we 0:11:13.559 --> 0:11:16.199 all need to be having. You know, those guys are 0:11:16.280 --> 0:11:21.640 embracing peaceful protests. It may not be the venue you'd 0:11:21.720 --> 0:11:23.400 like to see it in if you're a football fan 0:11:23.559 --> 0:11:25.319 or whatever, you know, whatever your problem with it is. 0:11:25.679 --> 0:11:28.439 And the whole idea that it's all about the flag 0:11:28.520 --> 0:11:31.440 and the flag is all about the military is not true. 0:11:32.080 --> 0:11:34.800 The flag is about freedom, and that's what the conversation 0:11:34.920 --> 0:11:37.880 is about. And these guys aren't risking they're not destroying 0:11:37.960 --> 0:11:41.040 my property, they're not hurting anyone. The only thing they're 0:11:41.040 --> 0:11:43.439 putting at risk is their own livelihood. And so I 0:11:43.520 --> 0:11:46.520 applaud their courage, you know, and I think it's a 0:11:46.559 --> 0:11:48.960 conversation that we got to have, you know, And it's 0:11:49.000 --> 0:11:51.599 going to be painful, because growth is painful, you know, 0:11:52.200 --> 0:11:56.199 but it you know, that's that's the great America that 0:11:56.679 --> 0:11:58.800 I think most of us are talking about. You know, 0:11:59.160 --> 0:12:02.920 America is getting great, you know, and it can continue 0:12:02.960 --> 0:12:05.400 to get great. But this isn't the time to fall 0:12:05.440 --> 0:12:07.920 asleep at the wheel or to turn back the hands 0:12:07.960 --> 0:12:09.960 of time to something that was not great. 0:12:10.200 --> 0:12:12.079 But it's fascinating, says you grew up in such a 0:12:12.120 --> 0:12:15.200 divisive situation that you had that you like, how did 0:12:15.240 --> 0:12:17.400 you get introduced to soul in that way? Is it 0:12:17.520 --> 0:12:20.120 just that natural to you, because, like you said, ferguson 0:12:20.200 --> 0:12:22.680 black people, black people kind of separate. 0:12:22.400 --> 0:12:25.120 In that way, like, well, you know, it was it 0:12:25.240 --> 0:12:27.760 was the it was society in the fifties, you know. 0:12:27.840 --> 0:12:33.480 I mean, you know, so many of my friends are 0:12:33.520 --> 0:12:35.520 younger than me, and they don't really remember, you know, 0:12:35.600 --> 0:12:38.199 they don't really know and black or white or you know, 0:12:38.240 --> 0:12:40.880 African American or Caucasian or whatever they you know, it 0:12:40.960 --> 0:12:44.319 might be very few of them remember America the way 0:12:44.480 --> 0:12:48.760 it was, you know, and it wasn't great for a 0:12:48.840 --> 0:12:49.600 lot of people. 0:12:49.600 --> 0:12:52.080 You know, So it wasn't a footloose narrative where rock 0:12:52.120 --> 0:12:53.920 and roll came in and saved the town and that 0:12:54.080 --> 0:12:54.520 sort of thing. 0:12:54.760 --> 0:12:58.240 Oh, you know, it's funny. The British invasion probably did 0:12:58.320 --> 0:13:05.760 more to bring awareness to mainstream radio listeners white radio 0:13:05.760 --> 0:13:12.680 listens an awareness of real American music than American radio 0:13:12.760 --> 0:13:15.720 did at the time. A lot of the artists, for instance, 0:13:15.800 --> 0:13:20.959 the Womack Brothers, they had a top ten hit on 0:13:21.960 --> 0:13:24.440 what would have been considered black radio at the time, 0:13:25.080 --> 0:13:28.480 which most white people didn't listen to, didn't know about, 0:13:28.559 --> 0:13:32.640 you know, And it was a song called It's All 0:13:32.679 --> 0:13:35.760 Over Now. When the Rolling Stones did it, it was 0:13:35.840 --> 0:13:39.360 a huge hit, you know, and Bobby Womack made the comment, 0:13:39.600 --> 0:13:44.240 we were heartbroken until the checks started coming in. But 0:13:44.840 --> 0:13:49.400 still that speaks like you know, even motown, as popular 0:13:49.440 --> 0:13:54.439 as it was in mainstream radio, the British acts, the 0:13:54.480 --> 0:13:56.880 Beatles probably had some of the biggest hits of Smokey 0:13:56.960 --> 0:14:00.199 Robinson songs, you know, because they reached the whole other 0:14:00.280 --> 0:14:04.880 audience and that that was segregated in the United States 0:14:04.920 --> 0:14:05.719 at that time, you know. 0:14:08.240 --> 0:14:12.320 So you know, so even the jazz scene wasn't thriving 0:14:12.520 --> 0:14:13.000 at all. 0:14:13.000 --> 0:14:15.920 Or it was it was, but that that was I 0:14:16.000 --> 0:14:21.800 think a very you know, that was a kind of 0:14:21.880 --> 0:14:27.440 a I don't want to say, elite sector of intellectual 0:14:27.560 --> 0:14:31.440 music listeners society. It wasn't mainstream, you know, jazz was 0:14:31.480 --> 0:14:36.040 not mainstream. It kind of was in the fifties. It 0:14:36.240 --> 0:14:39.920 was probably rock and roll kind of took over where 0:14:40.040 --> 0:14:42.400 jazz left off in the fifties because jazz was that 0:14:43.080 --> 0:14:46.440 kind of bold and a lot of people growing up 0:14:46.440 --> 0:14:48.280 in the fifties were drawn to that, you know, to 0:14:48.440 --> 0:14:52.320 the artistic boldness of jazz and you know and everything 0:14:52.360 --> 0:14:53.960 that was. But then in rock and roll kind of 0:14:54.320 --> 0:14:58.160 took over the mainstream, you know. But you know, as 0:14:58.200 --> 0:15:04.400 a kid, I remember the first time I heard records 0:15:04.480 --> 0:15:07.400 like Edwin Starr's Stopper on Site. That was a record 0:15:07.440 --> 0:15:11.360 that sticks out in my mind. It was my sister 0:15:11.400 --> 0:15:13.480 and her friends were playing it and they were blasting 0:15:13.520 --> 0:15:17.120 it over a car speaker, and I up to that 0:15:17.280 --> 0:15:19.960 point was pretty much aware of what I knew at 0:15:20.040 --> 0:15:22.800 my age group, which was all these English bands coming out, 0:15:22.880 --> 0:15:27.160 you know, right, And but when I heard that record, 0:15:27.200 --> 0:15:28.960 it was it was like, all of a sudden, there 0:15:29.040 --> 0:15:32.400 was this sophistication to the rhythm track that this you know, 0:15:32.480 --> 0:15:35.040 the guitar was kind of tucked in and syncopated and 0:15:36.360 --> 0:15:40.920 you know, more interesting in a lot of ways. It 0:15:41.040 --> 0:15:43.960 wasn't as a judge so it spoke to broad strokes, Yeah, 0:15:44.000 --> 0:15:46.400 it was. It had a certain kind of sophistication that 0:15:46.480 --> 0:15:48.480 I really appeeled to me. And it was from that 0:15:48.560 --> 0:15:52.760 point on that I really started listening to artists that 0:15:52.920 --> 0:15:55.680 I had prior to that not really been that aware of. 0:15:55.760 --> 0:15:57.560 You know, do you remember the first record that you 0:15:57.880 --> 0:15:58.680 ever purchased. 0:15:59.320 --> 0:16:02.320 Yeah, it was the Everly Brothers Wake Up Little Susie. 0:16:03.440 --> 0:16:05.360 Me and a friend of mine pulled our money and 0:16:05.400 --> 0:16:06.680 went and bought the forty five. 0:16:06.640 --> 0:16:09.640 And how much were forty five's back when you were 0:16:09.760 --> 0:16:10.680 growing up, same. 0:16:10.520 --> 0:16:14.760 As they are now? A buck? We're the one industry 0:16:14.800 --> 0:16:16.120 where the price has not gone up. 0:16:17.080 --> 0:16:19.800 It was on the sorry quest what was on the 0:16:19.840 --> 0:16:20.440 B side of that? 0:16:21.200 --> 0:16:24.080 On the B side, I don't remember. It was that 0:16:24.240 --> 0:16:26.600 record in the Chipmunks Christmas Song. That was my two 0:16:26.640 --> 0:16:27.720 big first records. 0:16:29.240 --> 0:16:33.480 Sorry, no, no, Well I like B sides. Sorry, I 0:16:33.600 --> 0:16:35.680 know I was waiting for you jazz question. 0:16:37.120 --> 0:16:39.080 No, I mean that's I never thought of it that way, 0:16:39.120 --> 0:16:41.920 that that rock and roll took over where jazz left 0:16:42.000 --> 0:16:42.800 off in that sense. 0:16:43.280 --> 0:16:45.920 Yeah, I think in a cultural sense, jazz was that 0:16:46.120 --> 0:16:51.720 daring music taboo, a little bit genre that that, you know, 0:16:52.080 --> 0:16:54.960 if you were really cool, you listen to jazz, you know. 0:16:56.480 --> 0:17:01.280 So was there a hip factor in Saint Louis A yeah, 0:17:01.480 --> 0:17:02.960 counterculture if you will. 0:17:03.120 --> 0:17:07.320 Yeah, I definitely took place around Gaslight Square in Saint Louis, downtown, 0:17:07.359 --> 0:17:09.920 Saint Louis area South, you know, kind of somewhere between South. 0:17:10.119 --> 0:17:11.879 I'm not really sure where Gaslight Square was, to be 0:17:11.920 --> 0:17:14.680 honest with you, but I remember that's where my parents 0:17:14.760 --> 0:17:16.639 went to hear music, you know, and it was like 0:17:17.000 --> 0:17:20.400 there were jazz clubs and uh, and then the tornado 0:17:20.520 --> 0:17:22.720 hit it. One of the big tornadoes came through and 0:17:23.440 --> 0:17:26.040 leveled the place and it never kind of recovered from that. 0:17:26.200 --> 0:17:29.040 You know. It would be like where the village and 0:17:29.640 --> 0:17:29.800 you know. 0:17:32.240 --> 0:17:35.840 Uh, concert, Like were you attending concerts at all? Or like, 0:17:35.920 --> 0:17:37.400 what was the first show you remember seeing? 0:17:39.200 --> 0:17:42.080 Let me think about that. I remember going to see, uh, 0:17:43.880 --> 0:17:46.760 this thing called the ALSAC Show. It was the big 0:17:47.119 --> 0:17:50.919 am radio station in Saint Louis, cakes Okay, and they 0:17:51.040 --> 0:17:56.199 brought this show to town. It was like a charity 0:17:56.800 --> 0:18:01.160 event and Wilson Pickett was on was one of the headliners. 0:18:01.720 --> 0:18:04.959 So up there was the Memphis Rhythm Section, Memphis horns, 0:18:05.200 --> 0:18:07.200 you know, the whole the whole gang. And it was 0:18:07.400 --> 0:18:12.000 like just this powerful experience to hear those guys and 0:18:12.960 --> 0:18:16.119 Keel Auditorium, you know, and that was one of the 0:18:16.440 --> 0:18:19.560 There was another great show I saw there was the Beg's. 0:18:19.880 --> 0:18:23.080 Once I was driving around and I saw their name 0:18:23.160 --> 0:18:25.720 on the Marquee and a friend of mine and I 0:18:25.920 --> 0:18:26.280 went in. 0:18:26.520 --> 0:18:27.640 The Australian version. 0:18:27.840 --> 0:18:30.800 Yeah, the Beg's, Yeah, the Beatles, and this was long 0:18:30.880 --> 0:18:35.320 before their big resurgence, you know, this was like you know, sixties, 0:18:35.359 --> 0:18:38.840 you know. And we went in there and it was 0:18:38.960 --> 0:18:41.760 like the first two rows had people and nothing else. 0:18:41.880 --> 0:18:44.800 It was like there no one knew that they and 0:18:45.040 --> 0:18:48.239 these guys came out and did this show as if 0:18:48.359 --> 0:18:50.239 the place was filled to the brim. You know, they 0:18:50.359 --> 0:18:53.880 just didn't undaunted. They just put on this great show. 0:18:54.320 --> 0:18:58.040 And I remember thinking, man, that's that's pretty cool. You know, 0:18:58.840 --> 0:19:01.119 I should somehow I remembered that, you know, and. 0:19:01.600 --> 0:19:05.040 Wait, you casually walked by saw the Beg's on the 0:19:05.119 --> 0:19:08.159 Marquie was like listen. Was yeah, how much were shows 0:19:08.160 --> 0:19:09.520 back then that you could just not much? 0:19:10.320 --> 0:19:12.600 It's probably about five bucks apiece. We went in and 0:19:12.680 --> 0:19:15.120 saw these guys play, you know, it's crazy. Yeah. 0:19:15.560 --> 0:19:17.680 And at that point, had you start singing yet to yourself? 0:19:17.760 --> 0:19:19.320 And the shot? Did you start singing yet? 0:19:19.560 --> 0:19:21.320 Yeah? I was in I was in a band. In fact, 0:19:21.359 --> 0:19:22.960 me and this this friend of mine were in a 0:19:23.000 --> 0:19:28.560 band together and we we were just driving around Saint Louis, 0:19:28.600 --> 0:19:30.960 you know, doing very much nothing as usual, you know. 0:19:31.119 --> 0:19:35.399 And I saw them on the Marquee and hadn't heard 0:19:35.440 --> 0:19:37.440 a thing about it. So we just you know, walked 0:19:37.520 --> 0:19:40.760 up and tickets were place was not even close to 0:19:40.840 --> 0:19:42.920 being sold out, but they did a great show. 0:19:43.080 --> 0:19:45.159 How did you start playing? Were you self taught or 0:19:45.200 --> 0:19:46.000 did you take lessons? 0:19:46.480 --> 0:19:50.200 I'm just just self taught, you know. I my I 0:19:50.320 --> 0:19:54.560 started off playing tenor banjo for my dad, who was saying, uh, 0:19:54.840 --> 0:19:57.040 he was a singer and sang in a lot of bars, 0:19:57.320 --> 0:20:00.159 not so much professionally, but he sang, you know, uh, 0:20:00.800 --> 0:20:02.760 and people kind of knew him as a singer, you know, 0:20:02.840 --> 0:20:04.959 so when he walked in a saloon, everybody wanted him 0:20:05.000 --> 0:20:07.240 to sing. And so I followed him around a lot 0:20:07.280 --> 0:20:09.720 as a kid, and uh, I would play tenor banjo 0:20:09.880 --> 0:20:13.800 for him, and uh he would do you know, uh 0:20:14.640 --> 0:20:17.760 old like ragtime songs and Irish songs and you know, 0:20:17.920 --> 0:20:23.600 Danny Boy was his big number. And so I got 0:20:23.760 --> 0:20:26.040 the chance. The significance of that was I got to 0:20:26.080 --> 0:20:28.720 hear a lot of great piano players, got the guys 0:20:28.760 --> 0:20:30.920 that he would go to visit who played piano in 0:20:31.000 --> 0:20:35.640 these bars, and ah, and it was amazing how talented 0:20:35.680 --> 0:20:38.359 they were looking back, especially, I realized that these these 0:20:38.520 --> 0:20:41.600 these were great musicians, you know, but here they were 0:20:41.640 --> 0:20:44.960 in the corner bar and Saint Louis playing Bill Bailey, 0:20:44.960 --> 0:20:47.080 Won't You Please Come Home? For all these drunks, and 0:20:47.840 --> 0:20:49.040 they hated every minute of it. 0:20:49.520 --> 0:20:52.399 You know, anyone else in your family? 0:20:52.600 --> 0:20:52.679 Uh? 0:20:54.160 --> 0:20:54.640 Singers? 0:20:54.880 --> 0:20:57.600 Yeah? My sisters both sing, you know, and they both 0:20:57.640 --> 0:20:58.439 got nice. 0:20:58.320 --> 0:21:01.080 Words singing background on the keep forgetting. 0:21:00.760 --> 0:21:03.000 That Maureen, that's Mareen. She still sings with me. My 0:21:03.080 --> 0:21:05.960 sister Kathy still sings with me. And you know, once 0:21:05.960 --> 0:21:08.000 in a while, we'll do these shows around town, just 0:21:08.160 --> 0:21:10.800 like charity events and stuff, and the family will come 0:21:10.840 --> 0:21:11.720 out and sing for me. 0:21:11.920 --> 0:21:13.960 What's your dad say when he realized you had the voice? 0:21:14.000 --> 0:21:15.120 Because he knew the band jo. 0:21:15.240 --> 0:21:20.000 He said, get your high school equivalent? S. He wasn't 0:21:20.000 --> 0:21:21.399 a big fan of the music video. I mean, it 0:21:21.480 --> 0:21:23.280 wasn't that he wasn't, But I don't think he saw 0:21:23.280 --> 0:21:25.119 it as a viable living, you know, and. 0:21:25.440 --> 0:21:29.199 I don't think any parent until it becomes yeah, right, 0:21:29.320 --> 0:21:29.679 that's right. 0:21:30.040 --> 0:21:32.320 No one was prouder that I was able to make 0:21:32.359 --> 0:21:33.040 a living at it, you. 0:21:33.080 --> 0:21:38.240 Know, But in hindsight, did you always have the voice 0:21:38.280 --> 0:21:39.520 that we know is Michael McDonald. 0:21:40.840 --> 0:21:40.959 Uh. 0:21:41.920 --> 0:21:45.959 There's so much technique in it, like who's teaching your 0:21:46.040 --> 0:21:50.000 who you emulating? And you know where'd you learn control 0:21:50.160 --> 0:21:52.280 and your verbrato and your tone? 0:21:52.880 --> 0:21:56.080 You know. A lot of my singing voice came from 0:21:57.400 --> 0:22:00.240 singing in bars, you know, because I had to preserve I. 0:22:00.720 --> 0:22:02.080 Say, smoke or beer. 0:22:04.359 --> 0:22:07.440 And then tobacco had something to do. I thought it 0:22:07.520 --> 0:22:09.320 was a good thing for a while until it was 0:22:09.320 --> 0:22:13.119 a great thing for us. But no, I early on 0:22:13.280 --> 0:22:16.480 I realized that if I wanted to sing like James 0:22:16.560 --> 0:22:23.000 Brown and uh uh some of the you know, the showers, 0:22:23.080 --> 0:22:28.320 you know, the great blue singers, I wouldn't have a 0:22:28.400 --> 0:22:30.159 voice very long if I did, you know, you know, 0:22:30.440 --> 0:22:34.439 like Mitch Ryder and all those singers that were famous 0:22:34.480 --> 0:22:37.840 for their screams, you know. But so I I developed 0:22:38.040 --> 0:22:40.119 a style that where I could kind of sound like 0:22:40.160 --> 0:22:42.440 I was putting more into it than I really had to. 0:22:42.600 --> 0:22:44.600 So I could sing five sets a night, you know, and. 0:22:46.840 --> 0:22:47.640 Five sets a night. 0:22:47.960 --> 0:22:49.600 Yeah, we did. We did. Like I did a lot 0:22:49.640 --> 0:22:53.120 of that in LA We'd play like three four five 0:22:53.200 --> 0:22:55.600 sets a night and sometimes go after hours, you know, 0:22:55.680 --> 0:22:58.200 and some go across town and play after hours clubs. 0:22:58.240 --> 0:22:58.359 You know. 0:22:59.000 --> 0:23:02.720 So what brought you to LA as far as. 0:23:03.000 --> 0:23:06.720 A record deal? Originally I came out to do a 0:23:06.800 --> 0:23:10.800 record for RCA Records, your own, not with Yeah, it 0:23:10.920 --> 0:23:13.680 was my own. I'm only hesitant to mention it for 0:23:13.880 --> 0:23:16.159 fear that someone might actually find it and listen to it. 0:23:16.440 --> 0:23:18.360 Oh God. 0:23:19.000 --> 0:23:20.320 He got discovered in St. 0:23:20.400 --> 0:23:20.720 Louis. 0:23:21.640 --> 0:23:24.680 Yeah. I was actually in Champagne, Illinois, playing in a bar, 0:23:25.280 --> 0:23:30.000 and a producer, a guy who I'm not to this day, 0:23:30.560 --> 0:23:33.000 who was from, believe it or not, Champagne, Illinois. He 0:23:33.200 --> 0:23:36.520 grew up on a farm there, went to l A 0:23:36.680 --> 0:23:40.000 and with the New Christy Minstrels. Remember the New Christy Minstrels. 0:23:40.080 --> 0:23:43.159 It was like a folk singing group, you know, and 0:23:45.160 --> 0:23:50.280 he if you watch that movie Mighty Wind, that's pretty 0:23:50.320 --> 0:23:53.320 much so. Anyway, he was in one of those groups, 0:23:53.359 --> 0:23:55.720 and he met his wife. But anyway, he wound up 0:23:56.000 --> 0:23:59.800 producing records for RCA Records. He produced the first Jefferson 0:23:59.840 --> 0:24:04.760 air playing album. Harry Nilson jose Fliciano you know, had 0:24:04.840 --> 0:24:08.080 quite a run, you know, producing some great records, and 0:24:08.480 --> 0:24:10.720 he heard me in a bar, signed me up and 0:24:10.840 --> 0:24:13.399 I came out to California. And the good part of 0:24:13.440 --> 0:24:16.720 that story is he he kept me alive by using 0:24:16.800 --> 0:24:19.000 me on sessions that I had no business being on. 0:24:19.200 --> 0:24:21.639 You know, I was playing with these guys who were 0:24:21.680 --> 0:24:24.879 really a list guys, and they had to put up 0:24:24.920 --> 0:24:27.960 with me because this guy wanted me to get paid. 0:24:28.080 --> 0:24:30.920 You know, he sings, I was playing piano. 0:24:31.840 --> 0:24:34.960 I had even less business being on these session on 0:24:35.080 --> 0:24:38.879 which on which sessions? Oh uh, you know, things like 0:24:40.800 --> 0:24:46.320 everything from David Cassidy to Jack Jones to uh John 0:24:46.400 --> 0:24:49.280 Harton John Hartford. Uh, you know, just things that he 0:24:49.400 --> 0:24:52.639 was producing at the time, some Jose Feliciano tracks maybe, uh, 0:24:53.480 --> 0:24:58.600 but it gave me experience I would have never gotten otherwise, 0:24:58.680 --> 0:25:02.359 you know. And uh, really where I learned, you know, 0:25:02.760 --> 0:25:05.520 how to play with other musicians on a whole other level, 0:25:05.680 --> 0:25:09.320 you know, are much more professional capacity. 0:25:08.840 --> 0:25:10.600 And you're still just self taught at this point. You 0:25:10.760 --> 0:25:11.639 just kind of figured it out. 0:25:11.720 --> 0:25:14.720 Yeah, you know, I was came from bar bands in 0:25:14.760 --> 0:25:16.560 Saint Louis. It was like the first one of the 0:25:16.600 --> 0:25:18.399 bridge gets the solo. You know, it was like we 0:25:18.520 --> 0:25:20.000 were just rushing ahead, you know. 0:25:20.720 --> 0:25:26.479 Wow, well, uh, you know, as we are very curious 0:25:26.520 --> 0:25:29.560 on quest Love Supreme. We would like to play a 0:25:29.640 --> 0:25:33.280 bit of God News by young Mike McDonald. 0:25:33.760 --> 0:25:38.160 Oh my god, this is gonna be painful. 0:25:54.720 --> 0:26:07.119 Change and you should go away. Oh baby, Paul I 0:26:07.400 --> 0:26:12.399 have Junior said, well do you know that fifteen? 0:26:12.480 --> 0:26:12.920 I'm sad? 0:26:17.320 --> 0:26:23.640 You know you ste know about God. 0:26:23.760 --> 0:26:30.800 No, it's like Tom Jones Watch your Family. I think 0:26:30.960 --> 0:26:33.560 it's like, how old are you on that recording? 0:26:34.160 --> 0:26:34.280 Uh? 0:26:34.880 --> 0:26:37.240 Eighteen and you sounded like forty? 0:26:38.840 --> 0:26:42.280 J Thomas. I feel it. I feel it. That was 0:26:42.480 --> 0:26:44.960 nothing embarrassing about that manh. 0:26:45.880 --> 0:26:55.399 Yeah, it was great, Thank you? So uh woll within 0:26:55.520 --> 0:27:00.879 the in l a Uh are you interacting at all? 0:27:01.280 --> 0:27:05.119 Or how are you running into what will eventually be 0:27:06.200 --> 0:27:08.680 your peers at the mid seventies to mid eighties, like 0:27:08.800 --> 0:27:12.000 the Bacados, the Pages, the I. 0:27:12.040 --> 0:27:15.040 Got, Yeah, you know that was I probably met those 0:27:15.119 --> 0:27:18.440 guys more on the club level doing casuals. One of 0:27:18.480 --> 0:27:22.240 the first gigs I ever remember meeting Jeff Pacarl I'm 0:27:22.280 --> 0:27:23.760 not even sure I met him. That night we were 0:27:23.800 --> 0:27:27.600 playing at a club in the Valley cent Fernando Valley 0:27:27.720 --> 0:27:30.040 and his band came in and played, and they were 0:27:30.040 --> 0:27:33.439 all underage. They were all like junior high school age 0:27:34.520 --> 0:27:37.360 and I'm trying to remember the name of the band. 0:27:37.359 --> 0:27:40.520 They were named after their street they lived on, and 0:27:40.640 --> 0:27:43.760 it was all Grant High School kids freshman year, and 0:27:44.600 --> 0:27:46.879 Jeff was this phenomenal drummer and they were kind of 0:27:46.920 --> 0:27:52.840 a fusion band, you know. So it was interesting because 0:27:54.080 --> 0:27:57.320 every ending Jeff kind of did a symbol solo for it. 0:27:57.640 --> 0:27:59.480 It ended each song with this you know kind of 0:28:00.359 --> 0:28:03.800 you know, and but he was obviously really great and 0:28:04.280 --> 0:28:07.639 the next time I heard about him doing sessions after that, 0:28:08.720 --> 0:28:10.680 and uh, the next time I met him, we played 0:28:10.720 --> 0:28:13.360 a casual for a TV show that was a rap 0:28:13.440 --> 0:28:19.160 party for Universal Studios. And make a long story short, 0:28:19.240 --> 0:28:21.720 my girlfriend was the contractor on this show. She was 0:28:21.760 --> 0:28:24.320 a bass player at the time, Brandy. 0:28:24.480 --> 0:28:28.960 And I love to say, Carol, kay, wait a minute, yeah, no, no, 0:28:29.080 --> 0:28:30.199 no no, But she. 0:28:30.640 --> 0:28:32.760 She left to go do a gig in Vegas and 0:28:32.840 --> 0:28:36.359 she said, make sure you do this gig and we 0:28:36.440 --> 0:28:37.960 could get the band together, and will you do this 0:28:38.040 --> 0:28:40.200 gig for me? I said sure. She goes, You're not 0:28:40.280 --> 0:28:42.400 going to leave it to the last minute and you know, 0:28:42.600 --> 0:28:45.280 and and have it be a complete, uh you know, 0:28:45.920 --> 0:28:49.760 disaster disaster. I said, no, I promise, I won't. Of 0:28:49.840 --> 0:28:52.240 course I did, and you did. So at the last minute, 0:28:52.320 --> 0:28:54.720 I call the sax player friend of mine and he goes, 0:28:54.840 --> 0:28:57.320 I know these cats, they do sessions, she goes, but 0:28:57.400 --> 0:29:00.400 they love to play and they'll probably do it for free. 0:29:01.000 --> 0:29:03.280 I said, even better, you know, but I just I 0:29:03.400 --> 0:29:05.920 need somebody. So we all showed up. None of us 0:29:06.000 --> 0:29:08.440 knew each other, We didn't rehearse. We just played every 0:29:08.480 --> 0:29:11.040 top forty song we could think of, and then for 0:29:11.200 --> 0:29:13.440 the next three sets we played the same ones over again, 0:29:13.520 --> 0:29:15.760 but they were all pretty drunk by then. Nobody cared, 0:29:15.840 --> 0:29:20.560 you know, and we uh it was Jeff Pacarl, David Page, 0:29:20.640 --> 0:29:25.840 Mike Piccarl on bass Monsters. Yeah, and uh. The next 0:29:25.960 --> 0:29:27.920 time I talked to Jeff was like a year later. 0:29:28.360 --> 0:29:32.040 He called me through the same girl, Brandy, and he said, 0:29:32.400 --> 0:29:36.880 I'm looking for Mike. We're auditioning for Steely Dan, and 0:29:36.960 --> 0:29:41.400 I thought maybe he could play some keyboard and and sing, 0:29:41.720 --> 0:29:43.680 you know, do some of the backgrounds, because they're looking 0:29:43.720 --> 0:29:46.800 to kind of keep the band small, you know. And 0:29:47.160 --> 0:29:49.840 so as soon as I heard, I threw my piano 0:29:49.960 --> 0:29:52.520 in my Pinto and I drove down to Modern Music 0:29:52.640 --> 0:29:58.040 and auditioned. And you know, miraculously got the job, you know, 0:29:58.280 --> 0:30:01.360 and wound up toured the world those guys before. 0:30:01.080 --> 0:30:03.640 They broke up. You know, were you playing a Wolitzer 0:30:03.960 --> 0:30:12.360 or a little black worltzer? Yeah? Okay for those that 0:30:12.520 --> 0:30:15.800 don't know, And I've always just heard the legend of 0:30:15.920 --> 0:30:20.400 Steely Dan just being a studio group, Like what was 0:30:20.440 --> 0:30:23.560 the initial meat and potatoes of the band? You came 0:30:23.600 --> 0:30:25.720 in during what Katie lied or right? 0:30:25.880 --> 0:30:29.680 They hadn't started Katie yet. They partzel Logic was the 0:30:29.720 --> 0:30:32.000 record they were touring on. They just had just finished 0:30:32.040 --> 0:30:32.680 Partzel Logic. 0:30:33.960 --> 0:30:38.680 So was there ever besides Fagan and Becker, were there 0:30:39.560 --> 0:30:41.440 core members that were Yeah? 0:30:41.640 --> 0:30:45.520 Yeah, Well the band at that time existed as Steely Dan, 0:30:46.600 --> 0:30:51.480 Donald Walter, Jimmy Hotter on drums, and Jeff McCarroll on drums. 0:30:51.680 --> 0:30:57.320 Uh and Walter played bass, Danny Diaz played guitar, and 0:30:57.480 --> 0:31:05.000 Jeff Baxter played guitar, and uh myself playing some keyboards 0:31:05.080 --> 0:31:08.520 and singing backgrounds of Royce Jones played percussion and sang backgrounds. 0:31:08.640 --> 0:31:13.120 Royce was another LA guy that played clubs and you know, 0:31:13.360 --> 0:31:18.880 uh uh great singer and a great percussionist. But uh 0:31:19.080 --> 0:31:21.320 so we were that was pretty much the core group, 0:31:21.400 --> 0:31:22.280 the whole group right there. 0:31:22.400 --> 0:31:25.360 And how is it moving into their their band because 0:31:25.360 --> 0:31:27.320 as a self taught player, I mean the stuff they're 0:31:27.320 --> 0:31:30.800 playing is pretty adventure Yeah. Yeah, like how did you 0:31:30.960 --> 0:31:31.920 figure all that stuff out? 0:31:32.960 --> 0:31:35.000 Well? Donald showed me, you know, what he wanted me 0:31:35.080 --> 0:31:37.400 to play pretty much, you know, and and uh, which 0:31:37.520 --> 0:31:41.239 was basically backing him up on piano and uh uh 0:31:41.440 --> 0:31:46.240 with with electric piano and uh and it was It 0:31:46.360 --> 0:31:48.800 was great. It was a real education for me, especially 0:31:48.800 --> 0:31:50.800 in songwriting, because all of a sudden I saw how 0:31:50.840 --> 0:31:54.600 he voiced these chords that uh and there was a 0:31:54.640 --> 0:31:57.400 simplicity to it that was ingenious, you know that I 0:31:57.560 --> 0:32:01.160 I kind of learned that a lot of times, uh, 0:32:02.080 --> 0:32:06.760 the the harmonic vastness of their songs really came from 0:32:06.800 --> 0:32:11.080 the fact that the chords were very simple kind of triads, 0:32:11.640 --> 0:32:16.560 you know, with not in unusual forms, you know, like 0:32:18.200 --> 0:32:22.800 one two inverted. Yeah. Yeah, and a lot of times 0:32:22.880 --> 0:32:24.760 that's how the chords moved, you know, in that kind 0:32:24.800 --> 0:32:29.360 of symmetric pattern. But it really it just opened my 0:32:29.520 --> 0:32:33.040 whole head up to composition, you know, pop songwriting, you 0:32:33.120 --> 0:32:33.680 know for sure. 0:32:34.640 --> 0:32:35.440 Yeah, but how. 0:32:36.800 --> 0:32:40.760 Can you explain the phenomenon of Steely Damn because it's 0:32:42.680 --> 0:32:45.280 for me, maybe because I grew up ten years later. 0:32:46.080 --> 0:32:50.880 You know, I see probably the figure that I see 0:32:51.000 --> 0:32:55.200 that came close to experimenting as far as he could. 0:32:55.280 --> 0:32:56.880 And staying pop was printed. 0:32:56.960 --> 0:33:02.040 Yeah, So what were the what were Fagan and Becker's 0:33:02.560 --> 0:33:07.600 work habits as far as like was their intention to 0:33:07.800 --> 0:33:16.000 make digestible pop music multi layered with this intricate jazz approach? 0:33:17.000 --> 0:33:18.120 I mean, and I know. 0:33:19.880 --> 0:33:25.080 At least watching the documentary for like as how how 0:33:25.160 --> 0:33:27.760 animal retentive they were, Like how as tasks? 0:33:28.640 --> 0:33:30.720 Yeah? Like how what were their work habits like in 0:33:30.800 --> 0:33:31.520 the studio. 0:33:31.800 --> 0:33:35.480 It was you know, nothing stood in the way between 0:33:36.200 --> 0:33:39.520 them and the end game, you know, what they really 0:33:39.560 --> 0:33:41.560 were trying to go for. And what I find most 0:33:41.600 --> 0:33:44.400 interesting about Stue Dan. I remember we toured with them 0:33:44.680 --> 0:33:47.440 not that long ago, maybe but four or five years ago, 0:33:48.440 --> 0:33:52.640 and of course I would stick around every night and 0:33:52.680 --> 0:33:57.880 listen to their set and they every night I would 0:33:57.960 --> 0:34:00.360 it would hit me. You know, these guys were the 0:34:00.480 --> 0:34:05.240 darlings of Top forty radio for like ten to fifteen years, 0:34:06.200 --> 0:34:08.719 and their music is so weird, you know, it's so 0:34:08.960 --> 0:34:12.520 strange and it's so eclectic. How do they manage that? 0:34:12.640 --> 0:34:14.640 You know? But you know, I know in there as 0:34:14.680 --> 0:34:16.960 far as their work habits, like you mentioned, they were 0:34:17.040 --> 0:34:19.600 very insulated down on Walter, they seemed to be to me. 0:34:20.160 --> 0:34:22.480 They would kind of go off somewhere unknown to anyone 0:34:22.520 --> 0:34:27.800 else and write these songs. And I know that just 0:34:27.880 --> 0:34:30.360 from my own experience of being around them in rehearsal 0:34:30.440 --> 0:34:33.799 and stuff, that some of the influences they had were 0:34:33.880 --> 0:34:36.879 surprising to me. Like Duke Ellington, it was a huge 0:34:36.960 --> 0:34:40.040 influence on those guys, you know, on the makeup of 0:34:40.080 --> 0:34:43.800 their band, and you know, the chord progressions they wrote, 0:34:45.360 --> 0:34:48.239 the way they you know, the harmonic sense that they 0:34:48.320 --> 0:34:53.719 had with their songs. Was they really that sophistication that 0:34:53.800 --> 0:34:56.840 Steely Dan has kind of Probably the most direct influence 0:34:56.880 --> 0:34:59.920 I can think of would be Duke Ellington and our 0:35:00.080 --> 0:35:04.680 just like that, you know that we're that they somehow 0:35:05.080 --> 0:35:10.920 kind of twisted into this pop uh format genre, you know. 0:35:11.680 --> 0:35:13.600 All right, So I'm just going to jump to it. 0:35:16.840 --> 0:35:22.320 Peg how this background, how. 0:35:24.440 --> 0:35:28.839 I feel like PEG is probably on the records, one 0:35:28.880 --> 0:35:34.000 of the most intricate crafted background. 0:35:39.640 --> 0:35:47.080 You listening to Mike McDonald, He's like, no, no, no, no, that's. 0:35:46.960 --> 0:35:50.719 Not right, that's this is me, this is my my 0:35:50.840 --> 0:35:56.000 bad like has a dedication to you, Like, yeah, how. 0:35:56.719 --> 0:35:58.520 I think that sounds better than the last time we 0:35:58.640 --> 0:35:58.920 sang it. 0:36:00.320 --> 0:36:03.799 Well, that's what I was going to ask one. How 0:36:03.920 --> 0:36:11.560 do you how do you how do you guys recreate 0:36:11.640 --> 0:36:12.880 this stuff on stage? 0:36:13.800 --> 0:36:16.120 Well, there's a group of us, you know, singers and. 0:36:16.520 --> 0:36:20.279 Are they anal retentive one stage as well? 0:36:20.640 --> 0:36:23.360 Donald kind of gives us the parts, you know, and 0:36:24.880 --> 0:36:27.680 like when I sang it in the studio, my biggest 0:36:27.719 --> 0:36:30.560 problem was I couldn't sing the harmonies listening to the 0:36:30.680 --> 0:36:32.440 last harmony I did because it was too close. 0:36:33.160 --> 0:36:34.240 And so you do it separate. 0:36:34.440 --> 0:36:35.800 Yeah, you know, if if I, if I were a 0:36:35.840 --> 0:36:38.560 little more schooled as a singer, I might have been 0:36:38.600 --> 0:36:40.800 able to pull that off. But so I would just 0:36:40.840 --> 0:36:42.719 have them turn off the last part I sang and 0:36:42.800 --> 0:36:44.880 then give me the new part. I'd sing it, and 0:36:44.960 --> 0:36:47.359 then the first time I heard it altogether was after 0:36:47.440 --> 0:36:51.359 I finished it, you know. But uh, but on live 0:36:51.480 --> 0:36:55.160 on stage, we would sing the parts, uh, and we 0:36:55.200 --> 0:36:57.000 would you know, you'd get your part in your head 0:36:57.040 --> 0:36:59.239 and then you only have to be you know, responsible 0:36:59.280 --> 0:37:01.600 for that one part and with Donald. I always wanted 0:37:01.600 --> 0:37:04.040 to make sure I sang it in tune and on time, 0:37:05.040 --> 0:37:07.160 so I sang most of those parts while staring at 0:37:07.239 --> 0:37:08.120 him across the stage. 0:37:08.239 --> 0:37:11.680 See are there five other people also matching the notes? 0:37:12.120 --> 0:37:15.120 The girls? And uh yeah, it was me and the 0:37:15.239 --> 0:37:18.200 girls pretty much, you know, and and Donald. 0:37:18.040 --> 0:37:21.239 You know, was the Tory unit. Not it wasn't the 0:37:21.320 --> 0:37:23.160 same as the studio unit. 0:37:23.280 --> 0:37:26.800 Correct, No, No, it was the stulely Dan as it 0:37:26.880 --> 0:37:31.200 has been in recent past, with Catherine Russell and Carolyn 0:37:31.280 --> 0:37:34.480 Linehart singing, two great great singers. You know. 0:37:36.480 --> 0:37:40.879 Wow, Yeah, kudos to that is. I still don't think 0:37:40.920 --> 0:37:45.719 you get enough credit for or respect for that. I mean, 0:37:46.080 --> 0:37:50.000 it just sounds so effortless that you take it for granted. 0:37:51.400 --> 0:37:54.160 Well, those guys, that was all there was always there, 0:37:54.200 --> 0:37:55.920 you know. I came in late on these recordings. 0:37:56.160 --> 0:38:00.319 The typically the tracks were done, and how physically, how 0:38:00.360 --> 0:38:01.520 long did it take for you to do. 0:38:03.040 --> 0:38:06.080 You know? Typically, I don't think I ever did more 0:38:06.160 --> 0:38:10.000 than two tracks in a given session. Usually, you know, more, 0:38:10.080 --> 0:38:12.759 probably more often one you know that they were concentrating 0:38:12.800 --> 0:38:15.440 on for that day, you know, So. 0:38:15.520 --> 0:38:19.319 You're saying you just literally breezed through peg and under 0:38:19.360 --> 0:38:19.759 half hour. 0:38:19.760 --> 0:38:22.000 I wouldn't say I breezed through anything with those guys, 0:38:22.040 --> 0:38:24.840 you know, it was you know, and there were some 0:38:25.040 --> 0:38:27.759 tracks I actually didn't I wasn't able to do, you know, 0:38:27.880 --> 0:38:31.360 Like I remember Doctor Wu. They had sent me that 0:38:31.480 --> 0:38:33.200 track in advance and said, you know, we would like 0:38:33.239 --> 0:38:35.520 to hear your voice on this, and I loved the 0:38:35.640 --> 0:38:38.399 song and I wanted more than anything in the world 0:38:38.480 --> 0:38:40.000 to be able to do that track because I just 0:38:40.120 --> 0:38:43.640 particularly love that tune, you know, and I couldn't. I 0:38:43.680 --> 0:38:45.360 couldn't do it. You had to sing it all in 0:38:45.440 --> 0:38:47.720 one breath, and I smoked way too much at. 0:38:47.600 --> 0:38:49.439 That point in my life to pull that off. 0:38:50.560 --> 0:38:53.480 So I was really disappointed. And of course they never 0:38:53.560 --> 0:38:55.440 let me live it down. But you know, it was 0:38:55.480 --> 0:38:57.360 all in good fun. But you know, there were times 0:38:57.400 --> 0:38:59.080 when I really was not the guy. 0:38:59.280 --> 0:39:02.160 So how did they Yeah, I know they're they're infamous 0:39:02.239 --> 0:39:04.440 for replacing, Like, Okay, you're not going to nail it, 0:39:04.480 --> 0:39:05.080 get someone else. 0:39:05.640 --> 0:39:09.759 How how do they break that news to you hurting 0:39:09.800 --> 0:39:10.280 your feelings? 0:39:10.600 --> 0:39:12.919 Usually, No, it was you have to take those guys. 0:39:13.080 --> 0:39:14.839 They always had a great sense of humor, those guys, 0:39:14.880 --> 0:39:16.719 and you know, they would be the first two that 0:39:16.800 --> 0:39:19.120 got fired. You know, they they would fire themselves before 0:39:19.160 --> 0:39:22.080 they fired everyone else, right, So, I mean a lot 0:39:22.120 --> 0:39:24.879 of the tracking, Donald would have Michael Marty and play 0:39:24.960 --> 0:39:30.160 piano or uh and or Victor Feldman and Walter would 0:39:30.200 --> 0:39:32.319 have different bass players. 0:39:32.000 --> 0:39:35.359 You know, uh so one stand by in the break 0:39:35.480 --> 0:39:36.440 room like Chuck Brainey. 0:39:36.680 --> 0:39:38.279 You know, they just would they would just go ahead 0:39:38.280 --> 0:39:40.839 and hire other guys to do the parts that they 0:39:41.480 --> 0:39:45.800 you know, would do live later, you know, just just 0:39:45.840 --> 0:39:48.000 to get the track to feel the way they wanted 0:39:48.040 --> 0:39:48.520 it to feel. 0:39:48.560 --> 0:39:52.279 You know, were you guys aware at the time that 0:39:52.400 --> 0:39:56.480 you were laying the blueprint for And there's always debate 0:39:56.640 --> 0:39:59.919 on you know, I I see, I mean I'm seeing 0:40:00.040 --> 0:40:03.040 yacht rock now. Probably you hate the term yacht rock 0:40:03.120 --> 0:40:04.640 the same way that I kind of scuffle with the 0:40:04.680 --> 0:40:08.520 word Neil's soul. But I mean, in hindsight, it's a 0:40:08.680 --> 0:40:11.919 very quick way to describe this on her music feel. Yeah, 0:40:12.200 --> 0:40:14.239 I don't know if it's like a California sound or whatever. 0:40:14.640 --> 0:40:18.799 And it's so weird because I know that critics, at 0:40:18.880 --> 0:40:22.000 least back then, like the guys that I interact with now, 0:40:22.560 --> 0:40:24.400 who are music critics that are like kind of in 0:40:24.480 --> 0:40:30.680 their sixties now in seventies, I can tell, like they 0:40:30.760 --> 0:40:35.399 seem so not apologetic. But you know, if we talk 0:40:35.440 --> 0:40:40.120 about Second Half of Chicago or Toto's music or whatever, 0:40:40.280 --> 0:40:43.719 like any you know, they're always like and I'm like, no, 0:40:43.960 --> 0:40:46.120 like I love that shit, Like like I don't listen 0:40:46.160 --> 0:40:50.160 to NWA one of the time, I listened to everything else. 0:40:50.880 --> 0:40:55.239 But critic were you guys sort of aware of. 0:40:57.239 --> 0:41:01.360 Critics sort of well, I mean they didn't dismiss Steely 0:41:01.440 --> 0:41:04.440 Dan as much, but I'm just saying, like critics hold 0:41:05.000 --> 0:41:11.960 scoffed notion of what La Soft Rock was, you. 0:41:12.000 --> 0:41:18.799 Know, yes, and no, I mean, I uh, I think 0:41:18.880 --> 0:41:21.920 we got a lot of you know, bad press a 0:41:22.000 --> 0:41:24.759 lot of the time, you know, for initially, and then 0:41:24.800 --> 0:41:26.759 you know, if the record got popular, then it was 0:41:26.880 --> 0:41:29.160 you know, we always loved it. Yeah, you know, but 0:41:30.280 --> 0:41:32.080 but I think that's just that's just kind of comes 0:41:32.120 --> 0:41:33.840 and that's kind of part of the deal. You know. 0:41:34.680 --> 0:41:36.799 I don't know that we're any different than anyone else. 0:41:36.840 --> 0:41:39.799 You know. It's funny. I was watching the Eagles documentary, 0:41:39.840 --> 0:41:42.520 and you know, I thought every album they had was 0:41:42.640 --> 0:41:47.120 like this gigantic success, you know, but according to the documentary, 0:41:47.160 --> 0:41:49.120 there were periods and records they did where the record 0:41:49.160 --> 0:41:51.279 company was thinking of dropping them or you know, or 0:41:51.480 --> 0:41:53.600 you know, they went through their own trial and era 0:41:53.719 --> 0:41:55.800 of h and they wanted to be more of a 0:41:55.920 --> 0:41:58.040 rock band, and it was like, oh, come on, this 0:41:58.160 --> 0:42:00.560 country band wants to be a rock band now. And 0:42:00.840 --> 0:42:02.560 they had to face all that same kind of run, 0:42:02.640 --> 0:42:05.960 that same kind of gauntlet with critics and record people, 0:42:06.080 --> 0:42:08.360 and so I think every band goes through that. You know, 0:42:09.320 --> 0:42:11.400 it's it's just what's going on in the inside compared 0:42:11.440 --> 0:42:13.400 to what people think is going on from the outside. 0:42:13.760 --> 0:42:15.560 Well, speaking of him, since you brought it up, were 0:42:15.600 --> 0:42:21.440 you aware of any kind of light ribbing rivalry between 0:42:21.840 --> 0:42:25.320 the two camps, the Eagles and Steely Dan, I know 0:42:25.400 --> 0:42:26.640 the lyric wise they were throwing. 0:42:27.239 --> 0:42:29.680 No, I didn't. I didn't really think that was true. 0:42:29.760 --> 0:42:32.480 I think that was a manufactured kind of a press 0:42:32.640 --> 0:42:36.440 thing because I don't know that it really ever was 0:42:36.719 --> 0:42:38.600 anything between. I think it was just a lyric in 0:42:38.680 --> 0:42:41.560 the song, if you know what I mean, and kind 0:42:41.560 --> 0:42:44.520 of like when Chuck Berry saying I couldn't unfaster or 0:42:44.560 --> 0:42:46.680 safety belt. It was just a kind of a tip 0:42:46.760 --> 0:42:48.600 of the hat to the times we lived in right, 0:42:50.080 --> 0:42:53.840 and you know which, by the way, I thought, I 0:42:53.880 --> 0:42:55.480 remember when I was a kid, we backed him up, 0:42:55.520 --> 0:42:58.440 and I thought, how clever is this this guy? Because 0:42:58.440 --> 0:43:01.160 safety Bills had just come out that year. He is 0:43:01.200 --> 0:43:04.040 putting in the song already, you know. But I think 0:43:04.080 --> 0:43:06.320 the same thing with the Eagles. You know, the reference 0:43:06.360 --> 0:43:09.680 in that song was just, uh, you know, it's kind 0:43:09.719 --> 0:43:13.400 of life in today's world. You know what reference are 0:43:13.440 --> 0:43:16.880 we are we turned down the Eagles of Neighbors are listening, 0:43:17.040 --> 0:43:18.960 you know. I don't think it really really meant to 0:43:19.080 --> 0:43:20.960 be a slam at the Eagles, and I think they 0:43:21.080 --> 0:43:25.440 just kind of play roy humor, the Royal Scaeah. 0:43:25.680 --> 0:43:29.160 There's light lyrical references, which if it were hip hop, 0:43:29.520 --> 0:43:31.200 you know, shot could have been. 0:43:34.280 --> 0:43:42.640 So obviously. Uh, Jeff Scott pulls you can I assume that. 0:43:42.760 --> 0:43:45.799 He pulls you into the Doobies and the Doobies as 0:43:46.040 --> 0:43:49.719 you guys were working together on the Steely. 0:43:49.480 --> 0:43:53.240 Dan was he in he during your period? 0:43:53.400 --> 0:43:55.920 Or yes he was and we toured together and uh 0:43:56.880 --> 0:44:02.440 then the Donald Walter disbanded the band, you know, in 0:44:02.520 --> 0:44:04.880 that period of time, and I felt kind of like 0:44:05.000 --> 0:44:09.000 Timothy Schmidt said, you know, uh, I just got the 0:44:09.080 --> 0:44:12.359 best gig of my life and these assholes break up? Why? 0:44:12.600 --> 0:44:15.040 Yeahauch was after it was. 0:44:16.320 --> 0:44:19.759 It was excuse me, Katie k right after Katie Light, 0:44:20.239 --> 0:44:21.120 right before cad Light. 0:44:21.200 --> 0:44:23.640 Actually, yeah, why did they break up? 0:44:24.400 --> 0:44:29.719 I don't know. I wouldn't speculate myself, because it wasn't 0:44:29.920 --> 0:44:32.239 really a part of their world that I was privy to, 0:44:32.320 --> 0:44:33.640 if you know what I mean. I was just kind 0:44:33.680 --> 0:44:34.960 of for higher guy. 0:44:35.120 --> 0:44:37.759 Well, you mean the period between Asia you joined the 0:44:37.800 --> 0:44:39.040 Dubies in seventy seven. 0:44:40.320 --> 0:44:44.759 Well, yes, uh no, seventy five. That's when I taken 0:44:44.840 --> 0:44:45.280 to the streets. 0:44:45.360 --> 0:44:48.759 I think we did, okay, seventy five. Yeah, so there 0:44:48.880 --> 0:44:53.160 was like three four years between Gaucho Wascha was eighty yeah, 0:44:53.640 --> 0:44:57.040 scam and it was along. So you're saying that period 0:44:57.200 --> 0:45:00.160 wasn't just a writer as Black Hiatus. It was like 0:45:00.320 --> 0:45:01.319 we break up and then. 0:45:02.160 --> 0:45:04.080 Well let's see, I mean they were they were starting 0:45:04.200 --> 0:45:07.080 Katie Lied by the time we got done touring, you know, 0:45:07.320 --> 0:45:10.279 And so it wasn't too long after that, maybe six 0:45:10.360 --> 0:45:12.319 months later, that I went in the studio with them 0:45:12.360 --> 0:45:15.240 for Katie Lied and sang those backgrounds on bad Sneakers 0:45:15.320 --> 0:45:21.759 and some other things, and then Royal Scam was the 0:45:21.800 --> 0:45:25.800 next record, and then Gaucho I believe Asian then Gaucho. 0:45:28.200 --> 0:45:33.000 So you know, they were they stayed fairly busy, you know, 0:45:33.080 --> 0:45:35.680 through that period, but they just no longer were seely 0:45:35.800 --> 0:45:38.719 Dan as we all knew them originally, you know, as 0:45:38.760 --> 0:45:41.200 a band, but more as Walter and Donald. 0:45:40.880 --> 0:45:47.719 You know, okay, did you? I mean, why was I'm 0:45:47.760 --> 0:45:50.000 trying to figure out why. My question is, I'm sorry, 0:45:51.080 --> 0:45:51.759 why wasn't it? 0:45:52.280 --> 0:45:55.800 I think the biggest you know, And again it's probably 0:45:55.840 --> 0:45:58.960 not my place to even say this, but they one 0:45:59.000 --> 0:46:02.040 of the things I I thought at the time was 0:46:02.520 --> 0:46:06.120 they no longer wanted to tour, and the only real 0:46:06.200 --> 0:46:09.120 livelihood the other guys had, since they weren't the writers, 0:46:09.920 --> 0:46:13.080 was the touring they did, right, So they wanted to 0:46:13.120 --> 0:46:15.239 stay on the road, and I don't think Donald Walter 0:46:15.360 --> 0:46:17.399 wanted to be on the road anymore. They didn't really 0:46:17.520 --> 0:46:23.880 care for it, and and so, uh, it just it 0:46:24.040 --> 0:46:25.840 created a whole world that they didn't really care to 0:46:25.880 --> 0:46:27.120 be a part of. They wanted to be in the 0:46:27.200 --> 0:46:29.480 studio and they wanted to be writing songs, you know, 0:46:29.680 --> 0:46:33.200 and so they they that was kind of a necessity 0:46:33.920 --> 0:46:37.360 for them to be able to pursue that more freely, 0:46:37.920 --> 0:46:41.399 to not have the band to consider, you know, yeah, 0:46:41.640 --> 0:46:42.319 because there. 0:46:42.200 --> 0:46:47.720 Ain't going on but the written. So how how easy 0:46:47.840 --> 0:46:49.720 was the transition to the Doobies? 0:46:51.640 --> 0:46:56.040 Surprisingly easy? Uh? Not nothing I counted on. I mean 0:46:56.080 --> 0:47:00.480 I got the call from Jeff and uh, I flew 0:47:00.520 --> 0:47:03.560 down to New Orleans, and really it was only obsensibly. 0:47:03.640 --> 0:47:06.040 I was just going to fill in for Tommy while 0:47:06.080 --> 0:47:08.800 he was took up medical leave pretty much from in 0:47:08.800 --> 0:47:09.360 the middle. 0:47:09.120 --> 0:47:09.719 Of this tour. 0:47:13.040 --> 0:47:16.960 And then as things progressed and that tour came to 0:47:17.040 --> 0:47:23.880 a close, there was the back then. It was like 0:47:23.920 --> 0:47:26.440 the Dubies was one of those bands that they took 0:47:26.640 --> 0:47:29.480 very seriously an album a year, you know, and the 0:47:29.719 --> 0:47:34.640 label was really after them to get another record, and 0:47:35.040 --> 0:47:38.880 the way things worked out, it was kind of just okay. 0:47:40.400 --> 0:47:43.279 They we were all kind of caught unprepared. I really 0:47:43.400 --> 0:47:45.680 didn't see myself as part of that part of the band. 0:47:45.760 --> 0:47:50.840 But I had made a demo with Tyrne in his house. 0:47:51.719 --> 0:47:55.600 He had put together his home studio, and he said, 0:47:55.600 --> 0:47:57.319 you want to try a recording something. I said, sure. 0:47:57.480 --> 0:47:58.960 You know, I was just over his house for dinner 0:47:59.000 --> 0:48:02.640 and so we threw the song down of just something 0:48:02.719 --> 0:48:04.840 I had been in my head and you know, and 0:48:04.960 --> 0:48:09.160 I uh, we recorded it and I put the vocal 0:48:09.239 --> 0:48:11.960 down and we thought it sounded pretty good and uh 0:48:13.600 --> 0:48:16.879 uh he played it for Ted Templeman, and Ted said, 0:48:17.120 --> 0:48:19.720 you guys should cut this. This is kind of weird 0:48:19.840 --> 0:48:22.520 and different, you know, for the band. And it was 0:48:22.560 --> 0:48:24.160 a song called the Losing End, which is like the 0:48:24.239 --> 0:48:26.200 last song on Earth. I thought the Doobie Brothers would 0:48:26.200 --> 0:48:28.960 ever do, you know, and that would wound up being 0:48:29.000 --> 0:48:30.840 like the first track we cut for the Taken to 0:48:30.840 --> 0:48:33.600 the Streets record. And then so I hurried up and 0:48:33.719 --> 0:48:36.359 finished a couple of songs that have just been living 0:48:36.480 --> 0:48:39.560 in my head, you know. One was Taken It to 0:48:39.640 --> 0:48:45.000 the Streets and Keeps You Running and uh. And so 0:48:45.160 --> 0:48:47.520 that the album kind of started to take shape. Pat 0:48:47.560 --> 0:48:50.320 had some songs, and and Tommy was not really ready 0:48:50.360 --> 0:48:52.520 to come back to the to the group in that 0:48:52.640 --> 0:48:54.640 touring schedule, and and uh and work. 0:48:54.840 --> 0:48:54.920 Uh. 0:48:55.440 --> 0:48:57.520 He was still pretty much on hiatus at the time, 0:48:58.160 --> 0:49:01.279 and and and his departure was such a gaping hole. 0:49:01.440 --> 0:49:03.680 And as you can imagine, you know, in the band, 0:49:03.760 --> 0:49:06.759 it was he was such a driving force in the band. 0:49:07.200 --> 0:49:09.600 The whole time and and to this and remained. That's 0:49:10.200 --> 0:49:12.200 even during the time I was with him, a big 0:49:12.280 --> 0:49:14.640 part of our show was the songs he had written 0:49:14.680 --> 0:49:15.320 for the band, you know. 0:49:15.680 --> 0:49:19.440 So, I mean you were kind of thrown into a 0:49:19.520 --> 0:49:25.080 position similar to Dennis Edwards the New Temptation or even 0:49:25.200 --> 0:49:25.759 James J. T. 0:49:25.920 --> 0:49:28.160 Taylor for cooling the game in the game. 0:49:29.920 --> 0:49:34.160 But as far as the songs that h that he 0:49:34.320 --> 0:49:37.680 sang lead on, like when you were first doing your 0:49:38.960 --> 0:49:42.640 touring with them, like were you were you having to 0:49:42.760 --> 0:49:43.560 do uh. 0:49:45.120 --> 0:49:47.399 Listen to the music? Yeah, like oh yeah yeah. 0:49:47.719 --> 0:49:49.680 In fact, when I the first gig I did with him, 0:49:49.719 --> 0:49:52.200 I I flew to New Orleans. I got picked up 0:49:52.239 --> 0:49:54.880 by these two guys that I didn't know whether they 0:49:54.880 --> 0:49:56.719 were to take me to rehearsal or kill me. You know. 0:49:57.400 --> 0:50:01.640 Uh uh. We rehearsed in in this place called the 0:50:01.680 --> 0:50:07.560 Warehouse in New Orleans. And at the time, at that 0:50:07.680 --> 0:50:10.279 time in my life, you know, uh, there was a 0:50:10.320 --> 0:50:11.879 lot of things going on with me. I was playing 0:50:11.960 --> 0:50:15.799 clubs for a lot of years. I probably was ah 0:50:17.239 --> 0:50:19.280 easy to say, down on my luck so to speak, 0:50:19.360 --> 0:50:23.600 you know, financially, and I was, you know, living in 0:50:23.680 --> 0:50:30.239 a garage in Burbank. Uh and uh. I thought, well, 0:50:30.320 --> 0:50:33.359 you know, when I got to meet all these guys, ah, 0:50:34.400 --> 0:50:36.080 I thought, well, this is the gig I've been waiting for. 0:50:36.480 --> 0:50:38.440 Everybody drinks as much as I do, and you know, 0:50:38.600 --> 0:50:41.920 and they kind of uh it was a pretty rowdy 0:50:42.000 --> 0:50:45.239 bunch of guys, you know, and uh, but they they 0:50:45.400 --> 0:50:47.279 seemed to have fun and it was a good band. 0:50:47.920 --> 0:50:50.480 But the thing that struck me the first time we 0:50:50.560 --> 0:50:53.320 played was I was just playing these songs in a 0:50:53.400 --> 0:50:56.000 bar too, you know, too nice before I came down 0:50:56.080 --> 0:51:00.279 here in Burbank or Pasadena, you know, because they were 0:51:00.360 --> 0:51:03.400 like the big It was like Mustang Sally listening to 0:51:03.440 --> 0:51:06.000 the music, long train running. You had to know those 0:51:06.040 --> 0:51:07.880 songs if you're going to play in any of the 0:51:08.239 --> 0:51:11.800 dance bars in La Area. So here I am on 0:51:11.880 --> 0:51:14.120 stage with these guys playing these songs. I thought that 0:51:14.239 --> 0:51:18.840 was kind of ironic, you know. But and for that 0:51:18.960 --> 0:51:20.759 whole period of time, during the time I was with 0:51:20.840 --> 0:51:24.680 Steely Dan and the Dobies, I lived in two realities. 0:51:24.719 --> 0:51:26.879 You know. I'd come home and go back to work 0:51:27.000 --> 0:51:30.080 at the Trojan Club in Pasadena, oh wow, and then 0:51:30.440 --> 0:51:33.160 be ready to hit the road with Steely Dan. And 0:51:33.400 --> 0:51:34.640 or the Doobie Brothers. You know. 0:51:35.600 --> 0:51:39.960 So wait, you were in two full fledged bands. Well, no, 0:51:40.080 --> 0:51:43.640 I am doing your regular club. 0:51:44.400 --> 0:51:47.520 Yeah. No, the Doobies and Steely Dan. That was separate things. 0:51:47.560 --> 0:51:49.719 But during that period when I was with Steely Dan 0:51:49.880 --> 0:51:52.040 and when I was you know, one minute, I was 0:51:52.239 --> 0:51:55.040 touring Europe with Steely Dan, next minute I was back 0:51:55.080 --> 0:51:57.840 in Pasadena playing at the Trojan Club. And then I 0:51:57.880 --> 0:52:00.719 got an audition to go to New Orleans to play 0:52:00.760 --> 0:52:03.960 with these guys, and I stayed with them. But during 0:52:04.040 --> 0:52:06.399 my time off, I went back to playing clubs again, 0:52:06.560 --> 0:52:10.600 just you know, just to stay in, you know, in 0:52:10.760 --> 0:52:13.440 the circle of guys that I played around LA with. 0:52:13.600 --> 0:52:15.080 You know, how much were you making around it? 0:52:15.160 --> 0:52:17.200 Yeah? I say, could you make a Bible living? 0:52:17.560 --> 0:52:20.080 Like? Were you like, oh, okay, not really no. I 0:52:20.160 --> 0:52:23.200 mean back then, for a lot of reasons. One was 0:52:23.760 --> 0:52:27.440 we we weren't that serious about our top forty chops 0:52:27.480 --> 0:52:29.399 and our gigs. You know, we didn't really We weren't 0:52:29.440 --> 0:52:31.360 one of those bands that really made a living at it. 0:52:31.400 --> 0:52:33.640 We were guys that did it for the weekend to 0:52:33.760 --> 0:52:36.200 make a couple of hundred bucks a piece, you know, 0:52:36.320 --> 0:52:42.040 and have some spending money. And we you typically didn't rehearse. 0:52:42.160 --> 0:52:45.239 We just kind of got together and you know a 0:52:45.320 --> 0:52:48.040 lot of the songs you can play the drunk, yeah, 0:52:50.840 --> 0:52:53.760 And so you know, it was that kind of existence 0:52:53.800 --> 0:52:56.239 in LA, and then I looked to play with and 0:52:56.360 --> 0:52:58.400 sing on whatever. I did a lot of background singing, 0:52:58.560 --> 0:53:03.080 So that was a probably more of a of a 0:53:03.160 --> 0:53:04.319 living for me at the time. 0:53:04.440 --> 0:53:06.880 You know, you know what White Luther. 0:53:10.280 --> 0:53:13.480 The same story because even you know Luther's tenure with 0:53:13.640 --> 0:53:17.759 chicn Can do It were you did you cut your 0:53:17.800 --> 0:53:20.680 teeth on it, like the jingle circuit at all? 0:53:20.840 --> 0:53:23.840 Like, uh, not so much the jingles. I did a 0:53:23.880 --> 0:53:27.759 lot of sessions though with Luther Vanders, James Ingram, Philip Ingram, 0:53:27.800 --> 0:53:32.520 you know, we we were the switch. Yeah yeah, and 0:53:32.719 --> 0:53:34.640 uh we did a lot of background singing for a 0:53:34.680 --> 0:53:37.080 lot of people, you know during that period of time. 0:53:37.200 --> 0:53:39.920 You know, well, I know back then, uh, singing for 0:53:40.560 --> 0:53:43.400 publishing houses was a good living. 0:53:43.600 --> 0:53:45.680 So I think that was more Nashville and New York 0:53:46.320 --> 0:53:51.520 because LA was really typically more the and it wasn't 0:53:51.560 --> 0:53:54.799 even a real viable demo scene. Typically people did their 0:53:54.880 --> 0:53:57.800 demos for free, you know, and and it wasn't like 0:53:57.920 --> 0:54:00.640 Nashville where you can make a living just playing on 0:54:00.719 --> 0:54:03.080 demos for publishing companies, you know, because there's a lot 0:54:03.120 --> 0:54:07.000 of publishing companies there. But La, the publishing companies weren't. 0:54:09.440 --> 0:54:11.440 They weren't in the fray like they were in New 0:54:11.520 --> 0:54:16.000 York and in you know, La, I mean in Nashville. 0:54:16.520 --> 0:54:18.719 That wasn't that. It wasn't that sector of the music 0:54:18.800 --> 0:54:21.680 business out there, you know, so you couldn't. 0:54:23.320 --> 0:54:27.600 My assumption is that, you know, by seventy five seventy six, 0:54:27.680 --> 0:54:29.920 when you're like deep into Dooby them. 0:54:31.680 --> 0:54:35.200 This wasn't like, Okay, I got a good job. 0:54:35.280 --> 0:54:38.719 I can well, it was after a while I quit 0:54:38.800 --> 0:54:41.080 doing the other things, you know, I mean and went 0:54:41.160 --> 0:54:42.880 off to just be a Doobie brother, you know. 0:54:43.840 --> 0:54:47.160 But okay, but I just meant as a do you 0:54:47.239 --> 0:54:50.440 still feel like this could in any moment? And I 0:54:50.640 --> 0:54:50.920 got it? 0:54:51.600 --> 0:54:51.799 Yeah. 0:54:51.960 --> 0:54:53.440 I mean I think we all do in a way. 0:54:53.520 --> 0:54:56.359 I mean, even now, do you feel like, well, let's 0:54:56.400 --> 0:54:57.040 put it this way. 0:54:56.880 --> 0:54:59.000 I'm surprised I'm still doing this for a living as 0:54:59.080 --> 0:54:59.919 much as anyone else. 0:55:00.080 --> 0:55:03.319 And I know that, you know, because I mean your 0:55:03.360 --> 0:55:05.920 first is always like I'm still here exactly. 0:55:06.080 --> 0:55:07.920 Yeah, I'll wake up and go, oh my god, you know, 0:55:08.239 --> 0:55:11.919 but I mean, you know, and on the road, there'll 0:55:11.960 --> 0:55:14.000 be any number of times I'm sitting there going you know, 0:55:14.239 --> 0:55:16.719 you're sixty five years old. You know, what the hell 0:55:16.800 --> 0:55:20.719 are you doing out here? You know? And I can 0:55:20.760 --> 0:55:25.120 only gauge the sanity of it by am I still 0:55:25.160 --> 0:55:27.000 having fun? You know? I mean, because to me, it's 0:55:27.040 --> 0:55:29.799 still fun to play live more than almost anything else. 0:55:30.040 --> 0:55:33.160 I think I enjoy playing live more than I enjoyed recording. Wow. 0:55:34.320 --> 0:55:37.279 So okay, now, I know you said this didn't mean 0:55:37.360 --> 0:55:39.840 anything to you, and you forgot about this end quote. 0:55:40.320 --> 0:55:40.719 Here we go. 0:55:41.880 --> 0:55:42.680 But what's happening? 0:55:42.760 --> 0:55:46.360 Oh god, yeah, what's happened? 0:55:46.400 --> 0:55:46.959 How many people? 0:55:47.600 --> 0:55:53.479 You can't You can't make me believe that no black 0:55:53.600 --> 0:55:57.640 person and therefore, well we do that, But no black 0:55:57.719 --> 0:56:01.920 person in their forties fifties doesn't mention that to you 0:56:02.280 --> 0:56:03.520 every daytime. 0:56:04.560 --> 0:56:07.080 And I didn't mean to downplay the important That's a 0:56:07.480 --> 0:56:09.560 very vivid memory in my you know, for us, it 0:56:09.680 --> 0:56:10.040 was did. 0:56:09.960 --> 0:56:12.800 You guys feel like it was an important move like exposure? 0:56:12.920 --> 0:56:15.400 I don't think we had the sense to realize how 0:56:15.600 --> 0:56:17.319 important it was, you know, I mean, we just did 0:56:17.400 --> 0:56:21.840 it as a lark, you know, and uh uh you know, 0:56:21.920 --> 0:56:24.080 we thought it would be fun, and our publishers kind 0:56:24.080 --> 0:56:26.160 of brought the idea to us and we thought, oh, yeah, 0:56:26.239 --> 0:56:27.800 you know, let's do that. 0:56:27.880 --> 0:56:29.839 You know, we were just and it was a two 0:56:29.920 --> 0:56:33.719 part episode. Yeah, yeah, that was my first to be continued. 0:56:34.040 --> 0:56:36.440 Why don't you It was just the part that I 0:56:36.480 --> 0:56:38.440 didn't why why don't you break it down for the 0:56:38.480 --> 0:56:39.279 people that haven't seen that? 0:56:39.320 --> 0:56:40.359 Okay? Yeah, so okay. 0:56:40.440 --> 0:56:43.320 There was a comedy show based on the movie COOLi 0:56:43.400 --> 0:56:47.440 High called What's Happening in the seventies? Uh that featured 0:56:47.560 --> 0:56:53.960 uh Ernest, Ernest, Thomas, j Heywo Nelson and Berry who 0:56:54.280 --> 0:56:59.279 was a prominent member of the Lockers Okay, Mabel Mabel. 0:57:00.760 --> 0:57:04.719 So it was a very popular popular I would dare 0:57:04.840 --> 0:57:07.520 say it was probably the Martin of the seventies. 0:57:07.719 --> 0:57:10.839 Well Martin started and What's Happening Now? But that's fun, 0:57:11.000 --> 0:57:11.520 that's right. 0:57:11.920 --> 0:57:13.760 He did ship Martin. 0:57:14.040 --> 0:57:17.360 Yes, I forgot that anyway, So yeah, there was there 0:57:17.440 --> 0:57:23.000 was an episode you Gotta Explain Al Dunbar played by 0:57:23.000 --> 0:57:24.360 the late great Theodore Wilson. 0:57:24.680 --> 0:57:26.920 I thought his name was Sweet Lou or something like that, Like, 0:57:27.000 --> 0:57:30.240 didn't he have a sweet title. He was he was sweet. 0:57:30.840 --> 0:57:33.040 Oh he was good, same guy. 0:57:33.160 --> 0:57:35.040 He was one of those blacks like you saw in 0:57:35.120 --> 0:57:35.960 every black thing. 0:57:36.800 --> 0:57:40.760 Like he was he was sweet daddy, sweet daddy, sweetaddy. 0:57:42.680 --> 0:57:43.880 Thank you sw yes. 0:57:44.040 --> 0:57:44.320 Okay. 0:57:44.440 --> 0:57:47.760 So basically there's this so where the Doobie Brothers are 0:57:47.800 --> 0:57:52.640 coming to perform at Roger's uh high school, and you know, 0:57:52.800 --> 0:57:54.800 Rogie writes for the paper, so he's covering the show 0:57:55.320 --> 0:57:57.800 and so this uh, this this guy from the Underworld, 0:57:57.880 --> 0:58:00.680 the skive guy, approaches re Run and Rob's play by 0:58:00.680 --> 0:58:03.560 the name of Al Dunbar and he's like, hey, yeah, 0:58:03.640 --> 0:58:06.840 how would you like tickets for this concert? And he's like, uh, 0:58:07.480 --> 0:58:08.120 what's the catch? 0:58:08.360 --> 0:58:09.040 Ain't no catch? 0:58:09.120 --> 0:58:09.440 I what? 0:58:09.600 --> 0:58:10.439 You just record this show? 0:58:10.520 --> 0:58:13.280 Fun man and so and so he asked him to 0:58:13.360 --> 0:58:17.200 record this show on like this huge fucking tape recording. 0:58:18.440 --> 0:58:20.800 It's like, whoever thought that this was gonna work? 0:58:20.880 --> 0:58:23.560 But anyway, so he basically asked Rerun to be like 0:58:23.680 --> 0:58:30.360 the first Napster and shit and bootleg the Dewie brother Show. 0:58:30.400 --> 0:58:32.320 So he go up to the joint and so they 0:58:32.400 --> 0:58:33.880 agreed to do it. You know, he put the he 0:58:33.960 --> 0:58:35.320 put the stiff farm on him and he had his 0:58:35.440 --> 0:58:37.960 goon with him. His goon was was Bruno. I think 0:58:37.960 --> 0:58:39.680 his name was Bruno, and he at the end of 0:58:39.680 --> 0:58:42.160 the and then the episode ends, he's like, oh man, 0:58:42.560 --> 0:58:43.880 they because they try not to do it, and so 0:58:44.000 --> 0:58:45.600 rerun it's like, nah, I want to do it. 0:58:46.120 --> 0:58:47.440 We can get in trouble. 0:58:47.840 --> 0:58:50.240 All right, all right, all right, well you're just gonna 0:58:50.240 --> 0:58:52.560 have to tell mister Bruno hit it. He's not gonna 0:58:52.560 --> 0:58:56.320 get paid. Mister Bruno, will you please pull up a 0:58:56.400 --> 0:58:59.080 chair and talk to us, certainly? And mister Bruno goes 0:58:59.120 --> 0:59:02.280 and pulls up a store and the joint is and 0:59:02.360 --> 0:59:06.320 it's like to be continued. So then the joint opens 0:59:06.360 --> 0:59:08.080 up and so like they actually talked with the Doobies 0:59:08.120 --> 0:59:10.600 in episode two. They're talking before the show and so 0:59:10.760 --> 0:59:12.120 like they're like, so, what do you think is the 0:59:12.160 --> 0:59:12.840 biggest problem? 0:59:13.880 --> 0:59:18.040 I actually have. Biggest problem is probably botleg So they 0:59:18.120 --> 0:59:18.720 talking to stuff. 0:59:18.800 --> 0:59:21.840 So anyway, the show goes on. It's great, Michael does 0:59:22.560 --> 0:59:23.840 he does take it to the street. 0:59:24.040 --> 0:59:28.360 Wait time out At actual Doobie Brothers concerts, did you 0:59:28.400 --> 0:59:32.840 guys do that fire thing? Every every everybody has their 0:59:33.680 --> 0:59:37.360 the night I almost set my house on fire moment, Yeah, I. 0:59:38.240 --> 0:59:48.439 Might have gotten a Q tip. Why started playing with matches? Yes, 0:59:48.560 --> 0:59:48.960 you were right. 0:59:49.040 --> 0:59:51.320 If I watched TV, it was influential. It's very good 0:59:51.360 --> 0:59:53.880 for you guys, and not let me watch that much television. Yeah, 0:59:53.960 --> 0:59:57.280 when I saw the Gong thing, I went in my 0:59:57.920 --> 0:59:59.600 basement on the drummer and tried. 0:59:59.400 --> 1:00:02.680 To and it was not good. Was that to actually 1:00:02.720 --> 1:00:02.880 do that? 1:00:03.040 --> 1:00:06.240 And so press, I can't tell you. Uh well, I 1:00:06.320 --> 1:00:08.640 don't remember really what we did on the show. 1:00:09.120 --> 1:00:12.959 Uh he he lit the guy on fire. 1:00:13.600 --> 1:00:17.320 It was on fire, and it was cutting into like 1:00:17.520 --> 1:00:19.560 d and rerun. They were all like looking and stuff. 1:00:19.760 --> 1:00:21.880 And so then I think y'all doing take playing up 1:00:22.280 --> 1:00:24.600 like a high school and content though like the. 1:00:24.640 --> 1:00:27.880 High school the Doodie Brothers doing a rock show. Right, 1:00:28.720 --> 1:00:29.680 everybody's excited. 1:00:29.800 --> 1:00:32.040 Yeah, everyone loved it due and so because because the 1:00:32.080 --> 1:00:33.720 album was Living on the fault Line. That was the 1:00:33.760 --> 1:00:36.200 album at the time, and he they were talking about it. 1:00:36.360 --> 1:00:39.480 So anyway, so the crowd is going crazy and and uh, 1:00:39.960 --> 1:00:43.480 Michael McDonald's killing taking to the streets, singing, just going in. 1:00:46.000 --> 1:00:46.600 You don't know. 1:00:55.400 --> 1:00:56.320 It was so strong, he was. 1:00:56.320 --> 1:01:00.280 Saying through his beard was amazing. So so goddamn was 1:01:00.560 --> 1:01:03.640 singing that ship and God damn, we wanna get up 1:01:03.640 --> 1:01:06.400 and start jumping up and down, and the taper out. 1:01:06.760 --> 1:01:11.280 And everybody did the smooth lemonal. That's the first time 1:01:11.320 --> 1:01:16.000 I saw the Smooth, not by Michael Jackson. And it's like, oh. 1:01:16.560 --> 1:01:18.479 So then at the end of the joint, they're sitting 1:01:18.520 --> 1:01:20.480 at the I guess everybody left. They went back home 1:01:20.560 --> 1:01:22.520 to come to and so then they're sitting there like 1:01:22.640 --> 1:01:24.760 the Dowdie Brothers. It's like, yo, man, it's fucked up. 1:01:24.800 --> 1:01:25.800 I thought she was at home. 1:01:27.160 --> 1:01:29.240 He was like, no, but you are our friends. But 1:01:29.360 --> 1:01:31.520 this guy told us he would hurt us. It wouldn't 1:01:31.520 --> 1:01:34.080 be a guy by the name of Al Dumbball, would it. Yeah, 1:01:34.480 --> 1:01:36.800 it was Ol Dumbar. So then they go back to 1:01:36.880 --> 1:01:39.360 Rob's place and they catch Ol Dunbar and they play 1:01:39.440 --> 1:01:41.720 the tape and it's just rerun eating chips. 1:01:48.800 --> 1:01:51.000 I can to hear you listening to this episode right now, 1:01:51.160 --> 1:01:59.440 being mad here to worship the storytelling stocks. Thank you 1:01:59.520 --> 1:02:00.080 vant A. 1:02:00.120 --> 1:02:02.680 Wait, that's not real life at that time, in that 1:02:02.880 --> 1:02:05.000 time of year, it was never a Doobie. 1:02:04.720 --> 1:02:09.280 Brother show with a full with a full black crowd, like. 1:02:09.360 --> 1:02:12.320 We're black people embracing you. Got because after that episode, 1:02:12.320 --> 1:02:14.640 after that, yeah, yeah, then I was like, oh. 1:02:14.720 --> 1:02:17.880 Doobie Brothers, you know, yeah, I mean it was it 1:02:19.280 --> 1:02:22.000 was funny I found in my solo career, my you know, 1:02:22.160 --> 1:02:24.960 my first couple of records. That's how we got on 1:02:25.040 --> 1:02:28.080 the radio was back then it was more independently owned 1:02:28.160 --> 1:02:32.400 radio stations, and it was really R and B radio 1:02:32.520 --> 1:02:36.360 that picked up our singles like keep Forgetting In Sweet 1:02:36.360 --> 1:02:40.120 Freedom first, and we kind of crossed over to like 1:02:40.280 --> 1:02:42.280 Top forty or what are they what was it called 1:02:42.320 --> 1:02:46.120 in contemporary hit radio, you know, but we really got 1:02:46.160 --> 1:02:48.560 our start on the R and B radio in which 1:02:49.280 --> 1:02:51.680 back then you could walk into a small station that 1:02:51.880 --> 1:02:57.000 was owned by a guy who was the program director 1:02:57.280 --> 1:02:59.360 and who would sit and play your whole record with you, 1:03:00.160 --> 1:03:02.520 and you know, you sit and play your whole album, 1:03:03.200 --> 1:03:06.520 you know, to an audience and talk about it. And 1:03:06.680 --> 1:03:09.680 you know, that's unheard of today because of all the 1:03:09.720 --> 1:03:12.240 syndicated kind of radio things that people just can't do 1:03:12.360 --> 1:03:14.880 that anymore, at least not much my heart having it. 1:03:15.400 --> 1:03:25.640 Yeah, okay, so let's jump to nineteen seventy eight. Can 1:03:25.720 --> 1:03:29.480 you please explain to us what was you on when 1:03:29.520 --> 1:03:33.680 you wrote What a fool belief. It's one of the 1:03:34.600 --> 1:03:41.880 most notable, memorable, confusing word structures I've ever heard. I 1:03:42.000 --> 1:03:43.560 still don't know what the song means. 1:03:43.640 --> 1:03:48.240 It's cool Keith, he sees the wise man has the power, 1:03:48.760 --> 1:03:49.600 I know the hook. 1:03:49.720 --> 1:03:51.400 I'm just talking about the narrative. 1:03:52.600 --> 1:03:56.760 Sure, well, you know, I think the idea was a 1:03:56.880 --> 1:04:03.680 guy living in his own head believing that he left 1:04:03.760 --> 1:04:06.840 this great love affair that he needs to retrieve and 1:04:07.040 --> 1:04:09.760 that it must have been the same for her, and 1:04:09.960 --> 1:04:12.080 in fact it meant absolutely nothing to her. 1:04:13.120 --> 1:04:16.120 And so you couldn't just write youre on my mind 1:04:16.160 --> 1:04:20.480 all the time, right right right about it all the time. 1:04:20.800 --> 1:04:22.400 I don't think you'd be talking about the song now 1:04:22.440 --> 1:04:22.760 if you have. 1:04:26.080 --> 1:04:28.040 But yeah, you know, the funny thing about that song 1:04:28.200 --> 1:04:33.040 was I had that riff in the verse riff for 1:04:34.560 --> 1:04:37.000 easily a year or two, and I take sometimes a 1:04:37.080 --> 1:04:39.680 year to write a song, you know, But every time 1:04:39.720 --> 1:04:41.480 I play it for Ted Temple, he's you know, what, 1:04:41.560 --> 1:04:43.680 do you guys got any new stuff? You know? So 1:04:43.760 --> 1:04:46.920 I played that little piano riff and I had just 1:04:46.960 --> 1:04:49.520 a couple of lyrics in the verse, and he go, God, 1:04:49.920 --> 1:04:51.680 You've got to finish that. He goes I'm telling you 1:04:52.160 --> 1:04:55.120 that's a hit. I just feel it, and I go, well, yeah, 1:04:55.120 --> 1:04:57.200 I'm going to finish it, you know. Of course never did. 1:04:58.400 --> 1:05:01.240 And I was get together with Kenny Logins for the 1:05:01.280 --> 1:05:04.880 first time, and he came down to my house and 1:05:05.000 --> 1:05:06.920 my sister was cleaning the house because she wanted to 1:05:06.920 --> 1:05:11.240 meet Kenny Logins mostly, but and I was at the 1:05:11.280 --> 1:05:13.880 piano kind of thinking of things I might play for him. 1:05:14.640 --> 1:05:17.560 So I was playing stuff for her, you know, going 1:05:17.680 --> 1:05:18.960 what do you think of this? You know, I was 1:05:19.040 --> 1:05:22.920 thinking of playing this for Kenny, And she goes, yeah, 1:05:23.000 --> 1:05:26.520 that's great. You know. She's you know, picking up like, 1:05:26.760 --> 1:05:30.240 you know, my dirty clothes on the floor and all that, 1:05:30.320 --> 1:05:32.120 you know, and not really paying much attention to me, 1:05:32.440 --> 1:05:35.040 and the doorbell rings, and sure enough it was Kenny. 1:05:35.280 --> 1:05:36.760 And the first thing he says to me goes, what 1:05:36.880 --> 1:05:38.720 were you just playing? I was playing her that riff 1:05:39.800 --> 1:05:41.360 and I said, oh, it's just something I was thinking 1:05:41.360 --> 1:05:43.520 about playing for you. He goes, that's what I want 1:05:43.560 --> 1:05:46.640 to work on first. Wow, that was the first song 1:05:46.680 --> 1:05:47.320 we wrote together. 1:05:47.560 --> 1:05:49.560 So what was the kind of division of labor for 1:05:49.640 --> 1:05:52.680 that record in terms of he did you did music? 1:05:52.760 --> 1:05:55.040 He did lyrics, no, we both we both wrote I 1:05:55.120 --> 1:05:58.120 think both you know. From that point on we came 1:05:58.240 --> 1:06:01.520 up with the bridge or b section and then the 1:06:01.640 --> 1:06:04.560 chorus together, you know, and the rest of the words, 1:06:04.760 --> 1:06:08.240 you know, because I literally only had the little verse feeling. 1:06:08.320 --> 1:06:09.960 You know, they're just kind of the temple of the 1:06:10.040 --> 1:06:11.840 song and the chords and the verse. 1:06:11.880 --> 1:06:17.000 You know again, are you it's so intelligent, like were you? 1:06:18.560 --> 1:06:21.760 I know, no one starts thinking like, Okay, this is 1:06:21.800 --> 1:06:24.720 our bulls eye moment, this is going to happen. Like 1:06:26.440 --> 1:06:28.240 at any point did you guys think like, maybe we 1:06:28.280 --> 1:06:32.360 should dumb this down just slightly because I mean the bridge, 1:06:33.640 --> 1:06:38.760 the post bridge, Yeah, I mean it's very steely dand. 1:06:38.880 --> 1:06:40.720 Well I was going to say at that time that 1:06:40.960 --> 1:06:44.040 was really the music was, you know, I mean everybody 1:06:44.160 --> 1:06:47.720 was trying to uh harmonize in a new and a 1:06:47.760 --> 1:06:50.440 different way and bring something, you know. It was it 1:06:50.600 --> 1:06:52.720 was after that that it got to be where well 1:06:52.760 --> 1:06:54.680 we got to pull this back and make it more 1:06:55.480 --> 1:06:57.960 primitive and you know, rock and roll and you know 1:06:58.040 --> 1:07:00.240 all that, you know, eighties. It was like, you know, 1:07:00.360 --> 1:07:05.640 all these core changes. Yeah, that's you know, not not 1:07:06.320 --> 1:07:08.800 hip or cool. But at the time that we did it, 1:07:09.640 --> 1:07:13.120 it was steely Dan, James Taylor, artists like that who 1:07:13.320 --> 1:07:16.440 had very you know, James Taylor, as much as he 1:07:16.640 --> 1:07:20.600 was kind of uh kind of came from that singer 1:07:20.680 --> 1:07:25.720 songwriter tradition almost folk. His influences as a is from 1:07:25.800 --> 1:07:28.800 a jazz perspective or very evident, you know, and uh 1:07:29.360 --> 1:07:31.880 a lot of his songs and uh so he you know, 1:07:31.960 --> 1:07:33.680 he brought a lot of And that was the era 1:07:33.840 --> 1:07:37.120 too where albums artists tried to do a lot of 1:07:37.200 --> 1:07:40.080 different styles of music on one record, Like if you 1:07:40.160 --> 1:07:47.640 listen to like the old oh, you know records, you 1:07:47.720 --> 1:07:51.440 know that. Well, I think Ray Charles started that where 1:07:51.520 --> 1:07:53.840 you kind of step outside your own genre and do 1:07:54.280 --> 1:07:58.720 music isn't necessarily relate you know people. Yeah, and uh 1:07:59.240 --> 1:08:01.000 where James Taylor was great at that. He would do 1:08:01.040 --> 1:08:03.840 an R and B song, He would do a song 1:08:03.880 --> 1:08:06.360 with Marimbas, you know, and he would do the next 1:08:06.400 --> 1:08:09.200 song would be a very kind of guitar vocal folkish 1:08:09.320 --> 1:08:13.080 kind of thing and beautiful lyrics. And so he never 1:08:13.160 --> 1:08:16.080 shied away from any style of music that he thought 1:08:16.120 --> 1:08:18.840 he could be sincere and a lot of artists were 1:08:18.920 --> 1:08:21.960 like that during that time, and that seemed to be 1:08:22.640 --> 1:08:25.120 what had come out of the sixties was artists exploring 1:08:25.680 --> 1:08:29.559 other genres of music other than maybe the genre they 1:08:29.560 --> 1:08:32.000 started out in, And so we were just kind of 1:08:32.280 --> 1:08:34.200 doing what was kind of being done at the time. 1:08:34.320 --> 1:08:36.639 You know, we didn't really think of ourselves as anything 1:08:37.040 --> 1:08:37.559 too different. 1:08:37.640 --> 1:08:42.000 You know, so when you're sitting in the audience at 1:08:43.439 --> 1:08:50.920 the Shrine Auditorium and nineteen seventy nine was like that 1:08:51.120 --> 1:08:55.519 was highly notable for it so many so much heavy 1:08:55.600 --> 1:08:59.280 heading going on as far as the nominations were concerned. 1:09:00.120 --> 1:09:04.360 At the Grammys, Uh, you're going up. I think you 1:09:04.439 --> 1:09:11.439 don't be bringing me flowers? Uh the Gambler, I will survive, 1:09:12.040 --> 1:09:17.320 and uh after the Love is going what was your 1:09:17.560 --> 1:09:20.679 What was the feeling in your like when they called 1:09:20.720 --> 1:09:23.519 your name for a Record of the Year and Song 1:09:23.600 --> 1:09:26.760 of the Year. You guys went off five major wards except. 1:09:26.479 --> 1:09:27.320 For album I believe. 1:09:28.040 --> 1:09:32.280 Yeah, it was. It was amazing, Like did you expect it? 1:09:32.600 --> 1:09:35.200 Or no? I don't think you could expect you know, 1:09:35.320 --> 1:09:37.840 you was underdogs, Yeah you just yeah, you feel I 1:09:37.920 --> 1:09:41.519 felt like, what are the chances of you know, the 1:09:41.600 --> 1:09:45.640 first record of this nature that I had anything to 1:09:45.680 --> 1:09:49.720 do with actually winning a Grammy? But uh, uh we were. 1:09:49.840 --> 1:09:53.600 We were fairly taken back by the whole idea that 1:09:53.680 --> 1:09:55.880 we were going to win not just a Grammy, but 1:09:55.960 --> 1:10:02.120 a couple you know. Uh, it was amazing. And I remember, 1:10:02.280 --> 1:10:06.000 I mean not to be corny, but my grandmother was 1:10:06.040 --> 1:10:08.960 in the audience that night. She had come to the ground. Yeah. 1:10:10.040 --> 1:10:11.880 I was so grateful she was still with us and 1:10:11.960 --> 1:10:13.760 that she was able to be here for this, you know, 1:10:15.920 --> 1:10:19.400 but you know, it was just kind of amazing. It 1:10:19.520 --> 1:10:23.400 was kind of surreal, really, you know it was. It 1:10:23.560 --> 1:10:26.320 wasn't until I drove home that night. I remember they 1:10:26.360 --> 1:10:29.720 had sent a car for me, and I just kind 1:10:29.720 --> 1:10:31.839 of had the guy drive up and down the Pacific 1:10:31.920 --> 1:10:33.800 Coast Highway a couple of times so I could kind 1:10:33.840 --> 1:10:36.439 of come down from the whole experience before I had 1:10:36.479 --> 1:10:38.679 to go home and go into my house all alone 1:10:38.760 --> 1:10:42.400 and me by myself with this. 1:10:42.600 --> 1:10:45.519 You know, that's funny. 1:10:45.720 --> 1:10:48.920 Pacific goes Eyeway, Okay, that is one of the greatest 1:10:49.240 --> 1:10:50.920 I'm glad to know I'm not the only human being 1:10:51.000 --> 1:10:54.800 that doesn't ride Pacific go Sideway just to ride it 1:10:54.920 --> 1:10:55.639 to relax. 1:10:55.800 --> 1:10:57.679 Oh yeah, yeah, okay, sure good. 1:10:57.720 --> 1:10:58.360 There's other people. 1:10:58.880 --> 1:11:01.880 So when one steps that comes out, why did it 1:11:02.040 --> 1:11:05.679 implude and was there pressure to like lots? 1:11:05.800 --> 1:11:09.519 Yeah, I felt my personal pressure really that you know, well, God, 1:11:09.640 --> 1:11:12.240 now this record, you know that whole thing of it, 1:11:12.320 --> 1:11:15.360 this next record is really important. You know, I've learned 1:11:15.400 --> 1:11:18.439 that that was never true. But at the time, you know, 1:11:18.560 --> 1:11:20.560 you buy into it and you think it's like the 1:11:20.640 --> 1:11:23.120 most important thing in the world, and it's just really 1:11:23.200 --> 1:11:26.680 not all that important. But h and whatever it is, 1:11:26.760 --> 1:11:29.000 you'll survive it. But you don't know that at the time. 1:11:29.120 --> 1:11:31.680 And I remember feeling a lot of pressure, and I 1:11:31.760 --> 1:11:34.160 think the band felt a lot of pressure to kind 1:11:34.200 --> 1:11:39.360 of come up with something else again and something new 1:11:39.439 --> 1:11:41.840 and maybe something even different from the records we had 1:11:41.880 --> 1:11:46.280 done up to that moment, you know. And you know, 1:11:46.560 --> 1:11:48.439 I think at that point in time it was maybe 1:11:48.800 --> 1:11:50.760 it kind of marked the beginning of the end of 1:11:50.840 --> 1:11:53.240 my tenure with the Dubies. Although I still play with 1:11:53.320 --> 1:11:55.160 the guys and I still look forward to playing with 1:11:55.240 --> 1:11:59.240 them every chance I get, I you know, great friends 1:11:59.280 --> 1:12:03.320 with them to this and I really think, as Adobie brother, 1:12:04.479 --> 1:12:07.880 all of us who have ever had any affiliation with 1:12:08.000 --> 1:12:11.160 the band, uh, it's kind of like once a Doobie brother, 1:12:11.200 --> 1:12:14.000 you're always Adobie brother somewhere in your heart and mind, 1:12:14.080 --> 1:12:14.200 you know. 1:12:14.560 --> 1:12:16.519 So was the breakup amicable or yeah? 1:12:16.560 --> 1:12:18.519 It was? It was It was amicable. And we were 1:12:18.680 --> 1:12:20.519 like any other band. You know, we had our moments. 1:12:20.560 --> 1:12:22.000 You know, we threw furniture at each other. 1:12:22.040 --> 1:12:24.240 And that's where I want you to tell, Like, as 1:12:24.320 --> 1:12:27.760 the new guy, how can you you're the new guy, 1:12:27.880 --> 1:12:30.280 but you're now the definitive voice of the group. 1:12:30.320 --> 1:12:33.800 Almost and bringing in hit more. Yeah, more definitive than 1:12:34.200 --> 1:12:35.040 what came before. 1:12:35.800 --> 1:12:39.200 So it's like, how much power were you still the 1:12:39.280 --> 1:12:42.320 rookie that had to carry all the back the team's 1:12:42.400 --> 1:12:43.960 jockstraps or was it like. 1:12:45.760 --> 1:12:46.960 Might Donald we love you? 1:12:47.280 --> 1:12:49.280 And then like, you know, well what about me? I've 1:12:49.280 --> 1:12:52.360 been here since nineteen seventy one, Like what was that dynamic? 1:12:52.520 --> 1:12:54.720 Like? No, it was never you know, because I think 1:12:56.240 --> 1:12:58.960 internally within the band, you know, uh, I think all 1:12:59.000 --> 1:13:01.240 of us still looked at you know, at that point 1:13:01.240 --> 1:13:03.800 in time, Pat was kind of the senior member, you know, 1:13:03.960 --> 1:13:07.880 and and kind of the guy everyone looked to to 1:13:08.000 --> 1:13:11.200 kind of keep the band together, you know. Uh. In fact, 1:13:11.400 --> 1:13:15.519 it was when he left the band that we showed 1:13:15.560 --> 1:13:17.840 up for a rehearsal and I don't think we all 1:13:17.920 --> 1:13:19.519 kind of looked across the stage each other, like what 1:13:19.600 --> 1:13:22.600 are we doing here? Because without Pat it's really just 1:13:22.680 --> 1:13:30.120 not the Doobie Brothers anymore. It was after the live album, 1:13:30.200 --> 1:13:33.720 we did the Farewell tour, Yeah, and uh, it just 1:13:33.800 --> 1:13:35.720 didn't seem like there was any reason for us to 1:13:36.640 --> 1:13:38.839 go out and try to be the Doobie Brothers anymore, 1:13:38.880 --> 1:13:41.200 you know. And uh, I think it was unanimous, you know, really, 1:13:41.360 --> 1:13:42.479 you know, uh. 1:13:42.800 --> 1:13:45.400 So even when you did what it takes a minute, 1:13:45.880 --> 1:13:48.439 your your first solo record, was uh, if that's what 1:13:48.520 --> 1:13:49.240 it takes, if that's what. 1:13:49.320 --> 1:13:51.840 It takes him sorry, before we have got before we 1:13:51.880 --> 1:13:54.200 go to Is it true that Michael Jackson is singing 1:13:54.240 --> 1:13:55.400 backgrounds a minute by a minute? 1:13:55.920 --> 1:14:00.720 No, he said it, and I didn't know if that 1:14:00.840 --> 1:14:01.439 was real enough. 1:14:01.800 --> 1:14:05.880 No, you know, it actually was a joke that the 1:14:05.960 --> 1:14:09.280 whole tape, I've heard the whole conversation. People kind of 1:14:09.400 --> 1:14:12.320 edited it down to him just telling I think it 1:14:12.360 --> 1:14:14.519 was Elizabeth Taylor. I think he was talking to her, 1:14:14.800 --> 1:14:17.120 but he was just pulling her chain. And then later 1:14:17.240 --> 1:14:19.439 on he tells her that he was kidding, you. 1:14:19.479 --> 1:14:22.960 Know, Oh, okay, but actually, you know what speaking of 1:14:23.000 --> 1:14:27.160 which you guys have the same publicists as the Jackson's. 1:14:27.240 --> 1:14:28.840 That's right, David guest. 1:14:29.280 --> 1:14:35.719 So there's a photo of I don't know what party 1:14:35.760 --> 1:14:36.000 it was. 1:14:36.080 --> 1:14:38.639 I don't know if it was a Doobie's Grammy party 1:14:38.760 --> 1:14:41.280 or something, but it's some sort of like after party 1:14:41.360 --> 1:14:47.320 thing and the caption says that you guys did a 1:14:48.800 --> 1:14:52.040 long train running, shake your body down to the ground, 1:14:52.479 --> 1:14:57.599 like massive, massive, because I see I believe once it's 1:14:57.800 --> 1:15:01.639 Michael and Randy on in stage with you guys like Tito. 1:15:01.760 --> 1:15:04.240 Yeah, it was the Jackson's and it was at the 1:15:04.320 --> 1:15:08.160 Friars Club in LA. It was a benefit show and uh, 1:15:09.120 --> 1:15:11.599 I forget what the charity was. It was a Jackson 1:15:11.680 --> 1:15:14.320 family charity and we was there, think yeah, and we 1:15:14.560 --> 1:15:16.800 we just kind of came as guests and uh and 1:15:16.880 --> 1:15:19.920 we did we did uh long train running? 1:15:20.080 --> 1:15:23.120 And the right has this? Ever? 1:15:23.240 --> 1:15:26.160 Does anyone have a bootleg of this or recording? 1:15:26.560 --> 1:15:26.800 You know what? 1:15:26.960 --> 1:15:27.280 I think? 1:15:27.400 --> 1:15:30.080 I think there is somewhere out there in the world 1:15:30.439 --> 1:15:32.479 where I wouldn't tell you love this. 1:15:32.960 --> 1:15:35.200 Yeah, I mean, how do you were you guys big 1:15:35.240 --> 1:15:38.560 into archiving any great I'm asking you. 1:15:39.960 --> 1:15:41.320 Were you into collecting yourselves? 1:15:41.400 --> 1:15:44.719 Like? No, but you know, people over the years would 1:15:44.760 --> 1:15:46.400 send us stuff like that, and I had once I 1:15:46.520 --> 1:15:50.559 had a big photo album of all those different photos 1:15:50.600 --> 1:15:50.840 of the. 1:15:51.280 --> 1:15:53.160 No one has a Super eight in the studio as 1:15:53.240 --> 1:15:55.840 you're doing, like open your eyes and none of that stuff. 1:15:55.960 --> 1:16:00.519 No, damn no, we just we we hadn't you know, 1:16:00.680 --> 1:16:05.519 we didn't have that consciousness yet, you know. But I 1:16:05.600 --> 1:16:08.280 think the Doobies actually have a lot of Super eight 1:16:08.400 --> 1:16:11.679 movies from early Doobies years, you know, on the plane 1:16:11.800 --> 1:16:13.600 and touring and stuff like that. You know. 1:16:14.520 --> 1:16:18.120 So with your solo career, how scary was that too? 1:16:19.080 --> 1:16:21.040 Probably the most scary thing I've ever done. You know. 1:16:22.920 --> 1:16:25.880 It was for some reason, and I'm not sure why. 1:16:26.000 --> 1:16:29.960 I just because there was a part of my life 1:16:30.000 --> 1:16:31.800 when I thought I'm gonna go out to California, I'm 1:16:31.800 --> 1:16:34.000 going to be a recording artist, and I had that 1:16:34.240 --> 1:16:37.599 idea in my head. But somehow coming full circle as 1:16:37.640 --> 1:16:42.439 a member of bands, uh uh, and then all of 1:16:42.439 --> 1:16:45.840 a sudden, being kind of well, I felt like I 1:16:45.920 --> 1:16:47.640 was walking the plank, you know, this is to be 1:16:47.760 --> 1:16:52.320 a solo artist. But uh And it took me a 1:16:52.439 --> 1:16:57.560 few shows to kind of find my comfort zone. That 1:16:57.720 --> 1:16:59.720 first tour was pretty scary. And I had a great 1:16:59.760 --> 1:17:04.439 band and you know, Edgar Winner, Robin Ford playing guitar. 1:17:04.920 --> 1:17:07.880 You know, it was an amazing Willie Weeks played bass 1:17:07.960 --> 1:17:09.840 with me and I couldn't have done better for as 1:17:09.880 --> 1:17:14.600 far as the band's concern. Brian Mann played keyboards. But 1:17:15.160 --> 1:17:17.599 I just had no concept of how to act up there. 1:17:19.680 --> 1:17:23.080 But it wasn't so you used to being the side. 1:17:23.200 --> 1:17:24.720 Then yeah, you know, I could sing a couple of 1:17:24.720 --> 1:17:26.760 songs and then someone else does the word, but light 1:17:26.760 --> 1:17:27.640 would shift over there. 1:17:29.080 --> 1:17:31.719 So it was sweet freedom like your first music video 1:17:31.800 --> 1:17:34.000 because in your face. When I watched that video sometimes 1:17:34.040 --> 1:17:36.639 I was like, oh, he really might not be comfortable 1:17:37.080 --> 1:17:37.839 in that situation. 1:17:38.000 --> 1:17:42.439 You know, did I jump? Sorry? I just was asking. 1:17:42.520 --> 1:17:42.840 I didn't. 1:17:42.880 --> 1:17:44.439 Okay, that was the first. 1:17:44.520 --> 1:17:46.400 The first one was I keep forgetting that we did 1:17:46.439 --> 1:17:50.879 a music video and it was it was yeah, awkward, 1:17:51.080 --> 1:17:51.720 you know, it was. 1:17:52.680 --> 1:17:53.559 Look any further. 1:17:54.880 --> 1:17:58.760 That was that was not my forte. It was further. Yeah, 1:17:59.200 --> 1:18:00.360 yeah on you. 1:18:01.040 --> 1:18:05.280 You came on Soul Training to promote it, and probably 1:18:05.320 --> 1:18:07.840 the best thing about it was the heavyweight you had 1:18:07.920 --> 1:18:11.160 with you. I mean, you have Louis Johnson and that's 1:18:11.240 --> 1:18:12.160 Lewis Lewis. 1:18:12.000 --> 1:18:15.480 Johnson plased record too, yeah, and and Jeff Pericarl. 1:18:15.520 --> 1:18:19.320 And break filling games like you had the cats with you. 1:18:19.439 --> 1:18:22.720 But yeah, I mean we're worshiping like you have the 1:18:22.760 --> 1:18:23.320 guys with you. 1:18:23.439 --> 1:18:25.439 But back then it was just like who do we 1:18:25.520 --> 1:18:29.280 get let's get a well, you know, I was lucky 1:18:29.320 --> 1:18:31.040 to be able to beat those guys for sure, and 1:18:31.080 --> 1:18:36.519 it was my two sisters singing backgrounds. Yeah, but uh yeah, 1:18:36.680 --> 1:18:39.680 I would. I would say that on a good day 1:18:39.720 --> 1:18:41.479 you could get those guys to come and play on 1:18:41.600 --> 1:18:43.560 TV with you. But you know that it just so 1:18:43.680 --> 1:18:46.519 happened that everybody was available. And so. 1:18:48.439 --> 1:18:51.160 That's only in particular. It was I was reading it 1:18:51.320 --> 1:18:53.519 started off as a liber and Stoller it was. 1:18:54.520 --> 1:18:56.640 Wait, you're kind of jumping the gun because we were 1:18:56.680 --> 1:19:07.439 about to play around. Of So, Mike McDonald, I need 1:19:07.560 --> 1:19:10.200 you to tell me what are your thoughts of hearing 1:19:10.320 --> 1:19:10.719 the song? 1:19:11.760 --> 1:19:12.120 What is it? 1:19:15.400 --> 1:19:16.400 What are your thoughts. 1:19:28.479 --> 1:19:29.360 Chuck Jackson. 1:19:35.520 --> 1:19:41.840 Forgetting that you don't know, you forgetting that you don't 1:19:42.040 --> 1:19:47.759 want me no more, you forgetting men tell me about 1:19:47.840 --> 1:19:49.760 you want me? 1:19:50.400 --> 1:19:58.600 Ron So I found this forty five in Japan like 1:20:00.000 --> 1:20:03.639 ten years ago, but it came out in nineteen seventy four. 1:20:06.040 --> 1:20:07.120 What how. 1:20:08.520 --> 1:20:10.280 Well, it's an interesting story. 1:20:11.760 --> 1:20:16.400 And who was that? That's okay, that was long John Baldry, okay, 1:20:16.560 --> 1:20:17.120 Chuck Jackson. 1:20:17.200 --> 1:20:21.880 Chuck Jackson did the original. Yeah, there was a Liverstoller song, 1:20:23.080 --> 1:20:25.160 and believe it or not, unbeknownst to me at the 1:20:25.200 --> 1:20:30.559 time was my It was one of those things where 1:20:30.560 --> 1:20:33.120 we were kind of playing. My writing partner said, you know, 1:20:33.160 --> 1:20:39.040 there's this because he hit somehow, you know, mentioned the 1:20:39.120 --> 1:20:41.599 song or something, and I was kind of just playing 1:20:41.640 --> 1:20:44.000 the piano if any He goes, what's that. I go, well, 1:20:45.000 --> 1:20:47.560 that's what you were just saying. And he goes, no, no, no, 1:20:47.640 --> 1:20:51.880 he goes, that's totally different. And so we wrote this song. 1:20:52.360 --> 1:20:56.680 You know, I was immediately reminded by other people that 1:20:57.040 --> 1:21:00.599 you know, that's closer than you think, you know. So, uh, 1:21:00.920 --> 1:21:03.560 you know, we got in contact with Mike Steller and 1:21:03.920 --> 1:21:06.560 Jerry Leber and we realized that we had infringed on 1:21:06.640 --> 1:21:11.240 their copyright, you know, and they were gracious enough to 1:21:12.360 --> 1:21:15.040 give us some credit for the this version of the song. 1:21:15.160 --> 1:21:17.400 Kind of weird that you technically wrote a song with 1:21:17.800 --> 1:21:21.439 the guys that like you. That's a real building. 1:21:21.720 --> 1:21:25.240 Last Oh, I was not, you know, I mean, I 1:21:25.439 --> 1:21:27.840 don't mean to say this, like, because you know, I 1:21:28.080 --> 1:21:30.200 knew better I shouldn't. The minute I heard this guy say, 1:21:30.240 --> 1:21:33.000 oh no, that's not I realized, you know, I better 1:21:33.120 --> 1:21:35.439 listen to that song before I make any you know, 1:21:35.680 --> 1:21:38.000 But I didn't, you know, And I just you know, 1:21:38.080 --> 1:21:41.640 we we recorded it, our version of it anyway, and 1:21:41.880 --> 1:21:45.280 uh and right away one of the guys that Warner 1:21:45.320 --> 1:21:46.960 Brothers are one of the producers, one said, you know, 1:21:47.080 --> 1:21:49.760 he gave me his tape because listen to this, you know. 1:21:50.320 --> 1:21:51.640 And I said, oh, well, you know. 1:21:52.280 --> 1:21:54.920 Yeah, for you at least. 1:21:55.600 --> 1:21:58.840 Yeah, well, I realized that we needed to you know, 1:21:58.960 --> 1:22:01.240 get their permission, and you know, and and they, like 1:22:01.320 --> 1:22:02.800 I said, they were nice enough to give us their 1:22:02.840 --> 1:22:07.680 permission to release it and put it out. But you know, 1:22:07.920 --> 1:22:10.720 and and credit where credits due. You know that that 1:22:11.080 --> 1:22:13.960 that song ours would not have existed but for their 1:22:14.000 --> 1:22:15.000 original song. You know. 1:22:16.120 --> 1:22:20.479 So let's jump wait, who's credited who's credited officially for 1:22:20.560 --> 1:22:23.200 the writing of that song? Sorry, who's officially credited for 1:22:23.240 --> 1:22:23.720 the writing that. 1:22:23.960 --> 1:22:28.360 It's Mike Stoller, Jerry Lieber, myself and Ed Sandford for 1:22:28.600 --> 1:22:32.000 for our version of it. Yeah, the original version was 1:22:32.040 --> 1:22:33.080 a liber Stoller song. 1:22:34.400 --> 1:22:37.880 So twelve years later the song comes back to haunt you. 1:22:38.479 --> 1:22:40.960 Uh yeah and the most. 1:22:42.360 --> 1:22:44.960 The most gangster rap narrative of all time. 1:22:46.600 --> 1:22:50.240 But using this as a backdrop with with Warren G's 1:22:51.360 --> 1:22:56.640 g funk Uh, what were your initial feelings or you 1:22:56.760 --> 1:23:02.760 know where the text not where the text nice? But 1:23:03.040 --> 1:23:07.040 you know, did you have were you hesitant to clear it? 1:23:09.200 --> 1:23:09.240 No? 1:23:10.200 --> 1:23:12.439 You know, but back then, what I what I remember 1:23:12.680 --> 1:23:17.280 was typically somebody would give you, you know, ten grand 1:23:17.360 --> 1:23:20.800 and it was theirs, you know, I mean, it wasn't 1:23:20.920 --> 1:23:23.679 like the deals that are made today where we're publishing, 1:23:24.000 --> 1:23:27.160 you know, like now it's it's it was a one off. Yeah, yeah, 1:23:27.200 --> 1:23:28.960 it was just like you know, well, you know, we 1:23:29.200 --> 1:23:30.680 want to sample this cost. 1:23:30.920 --> 1:23:33.680 But that wasn't a one off. That wasn't a one 1:23:33.760 --> 1:23:35.320 off though, right, not that song. 1:23:36.720 --> 1:23:39.519 One off? Yeah, but I was going to. 1:23:44.160 --> 1:23:49.240 Was the version of my kids like you know, but yeah. 1:23:49.120 --> 1:23:53.880 But then the expressed I'm sure there was renewed interest 1:23:54.000 --> 1:23:55.639 in hearing it live all of a sudden. 1:23:57.439 --> 1:23:59.160 Yeah, you know, it's funny you. 1:24:00.800 --> 1:24:01.320 Yeah, it was. 1:24:01.840 --> 1:24:04.800 It had a certain impact on on the you know, 1:24:04.840 --> 1:24:07.479 the art record. So many people think that's the version 1:24:07.520 --> 1:24:12.479 of the song that you know as you know my uh, 1:24:13.160 --> 1:24:14.920 I'm not even sure my own kids didn't think that, 1:24:15.080 --> 1:24:17.120 you know, because they hadn't really heard my version. They 1:24:17.160 --> 1:24:18.479 were weren't even born yet, you know. 1:24:18.680 --> 1:24:22.559 So have you have you ever performed it with warn 1:24:22.600 --> 1:24:32.719 g Once someone comes, that has to happen, Michael, especially 1:24:32.760 --> 1:24:34.360 for going to make it. 1:24:34.800 --> 1:24:41.800 Damn he did you hear that? 1:24:41.920 --> 1:24:42.240 Michael? 1:24:42.720 --> 1:24:43.080 You heard that? 1:24:43.200 --> 1:24:43.320 You know? 1:24:43.520 --> 1:24:49.240 Nate? I thought just saw those guys on some TV 1:24:49.640 --> 1:24:53.519 or a documentary of some kind of like, wow, man. 1:24:53.600 --> 1:24:56.120 It was Is that the first time a hip hop 1:24:56.200 --> 1:24:57.519 artist asked you for the rights? 1:25:00.040 --> 1:25:03.120 I believe it was. And we've had quite a few 1:25:03.160 --> 1:25:06.639 things sampled since then. Minute by minute was sampled. 1:25:07.400 --> 1:25:11.800 Thanks, that was all right. It's not straightforward. Wait, oh god, 1:25:11.880 --> 1:25:15.320 the intron it throws me off every time. Yeah, I'm sorry, 1:25:15.360 --> 1:25:19.439 I know, but like every time I hear it, I'm 1:25:19.439 --> 1:25:23.880 still like, wait a minute, wait, the one that hits 1:25:23.920 --> 1:25:30.519 you I did so Yeah, there's no regrets of it 1:25:30.640 --> 1:25:30.920 at all. 1:25:31.000 --> 1:25:35.439 Oh no, you know, like all things it, uh, what's 1:25:35.520 --> 1:25:37.760 kind of like the rolling stones with used to lover. 1:25:37.920 --> 1:25:40.280 It's all over now, you know, you know, you know, 1:25:40.320 --> 1:25:41.920 at first they were going, oh, you know, we got 1:25:42.080 --> 1:25:44.720 we just have our first top ten record, and these 1:25:44.760 --> 1:25:47.639 guys scoop us, you know, and and then he said, 1:25:47.680 --> 1:25:49.719 but then when the checks started rolling in, I wouldn't 1:25:49.800 --> 1:25:51.599 didn't feel so bad about it. We're mad anymore? 1:25:52.680 --> 1:25:56.639 How did you get into working with Carli Simon? 1:25:56.760 --> 1:25:57.720 But like you Belong to Me? 1:25:57.960 --> 1:26:01.200 Carl I played on some we played the Dobies, actually 1:26:01.240 --> 1:26:04.240 played some tracks on on her the album before that. 1:26:04.800 --> 1:26:12.000 We we uh. She used us to play on oh 1:26:12.120 --> 1:26:17.840 gosh m hm, the song that she had recorded and 1:26:17.840 --> 1:26:21.240 I can't remember what it was now, but we played. 1:26:21.479 --> 1:26:26.040 We were the rhythm section. And it was upon meeting 1:26:26.120 --> 1:26:29.639 her during those sessions, Ted said, you know, you guys 1:26:29.640 --> 1:26:33.320 should write together. And so the first chance I got, 1:26:33.400 --> 1:26:36.040 I had a little thing on cassette, you know, which 1:26:36.200 --> 1:26:39.760 was you belong to Me in the chord progression, and 1:26:40.360 --> 1:26:44.800 I sent her the cassette. She wrote the lyric and 1:26:44.920 --> 1:26:47.880 sent the lyric back written out on paper, whish I 1:26:47.920 --> 1:26:51.479 wish I still had, you know, and uh and uh 1:26:53.040 --> 1:26:55.439 I had given her enough melody, just kind of mumbling, 1:26:55.600 --> 1:26:58.479 you know on the tape that she kind of wrote 1:26:58.520 --> 1:27:04.680 to that and that Cadence and uh. Uh. We never 1:27:04.760 --> 1:27:07.360 spoke the entire time we wrote the song together. It 1:27:07.600 --> 1:27:10.120 wasn't until like five years later she had a number 1:27:10.120 --> 1:27:12.760 one hit with it, or you know, at top five 1:27:12.840 --> 1:27:13.320 record with it. 1:27:13.400 --> 1:27:15.120 And I wasn't version first though. 1:27:15.160 --> 1:27:17.880 On the first it was never a single for us, 1:27:18.000 --> 1:27:20.040 but it was kind of a popular album cut. But 1:27:21.080 --> 1:27:23.120 uh so, about five years later she had a hit 1:27:23.240 --> 1:27:26.880 with it, and uh, I thought, well, you know, Jesus, 1:27:26.880 --> 1:27:29.600 I should call her and say congratulations or something, you know, 1:27:29.800 --> 1:27:32.280 And I saw I called her on the phone. We 1:27:32.400 --> 1:27:34.200 kind of laughed about the fact that we hadn't spoken 1:27:34.479 --> 1:27:37.000 about this for the last so many years. 1:27:37.040 --> 1:27:38.960 And you cut your backgrounds on it away from her. 1:27:39.760 --> 1:27:43.519 I didn't sing on that record. Yeah, No, just the 1:27:43.600 --> 1:27:47.720 Doobies record, the one I sang and did the background song, 1:27:48.320 --> 1:27:50.439 and so I forget she she did that record in 1:27:50.520 --> 1:27:50.880 New York. 1:27:51.320 --> 1:27:54.400 That's you singing backgrounds on uh right, like the Wind 1:27:55.160 --> 1:27:57.280 as Christopher Cross. How did that come about? I love 1:27:57.320 --> 1:27:57.679 that record. 1:27:57.880 --> 1:28:00.679 Actually, it was like we were like a day like today, 1:28:00.720 --> 1:28:06.439 we'd be sitting in the studio and Doobies, you know, 1:28:06.560 --> 1:28:11.680 in studio at Migo and h Christopher Cross was his 1:28:11.800 --> 1:28:14.080 first album was being cut in the studio next door, 1:28:14.720 --> 1:28:19.120 and the producer was Michaelmartin, and he came and said, Hey, 1:28:19.200 --> 1:28:21.280 would you if you get a minute after after you 1:28:21.320 --> 1:28:22.960 guys are done, would you come over and sing a 1:28:23.000 --> 1:28:24.800 background part for me? And I said sure, you know, 1:28:25.560 --> 1:28:27.680 and just kind of went over and. 1:28:28.600 --> 1:28:32.439 How did you feel about the s c TV sketch which. 1:28:34.200 --> 1:28:37.760 We we recreated that sketch on the tonight show where 1:28:37.760 --> 1:28:41.880 we literally had him run into the studio making it 1:28:41.960 --> 1:28:42.760 to the keyboard just. 1:28:42.840 --> 1:28:44.240 In time to say, just. 1:28:46.479 --> 1:28:50.920 Like the s c TV sketch TV Yeah, Second City, 1:28:52.439 --> 1:28:54.479 yeah kind of the snl of was it? 1:28:55.560 --> 1:28:55.720 Yeah? 1:28:55.800 --> 1:28:58.320 Yeah, it was like And the bit was based on 1:28:58.479 --> 1:29:02.519 the fact that, uh, every time his part comes up 1:29:02.600 --> 1:29:05.760 such a way that he would literally like do playing 1:29:05.840 --> 1:29:07.800 chains in the automobile like order plane on the chains 1:29:07.920 --> 1:29:09.479 running that just means sound. 1:29:11.040 --> 1:29:12.920 Just to literally get to the microphone in time for 1:29:14.880 --> 1:29:16.439 and then run away and then you know, do it 1:29:16.560 --> 1:29:16.960 every time. 1:29:17.200 --> 1:29:20.040 But we when we had Christopher Cross on the show, 1:29:21.120 --> 1:29:24.000 we didn't announce the audience that Michael McDonald was there. 1:29:24.040 --> 1:29:27.240 We just had an empty keyboard. As soon as Christopher 1:29:27.280 --> 1:29:31.160 was playing, wasn't he huh? Wasn't Keith playing it? At first, Oh, 1:29:33.000 --> 1:29:36.920 you're right, you're right. Keep McFee shout out to keep 1:29:36.960 --> 1:29:39.800 mc fee. Yeah, And so right when the bridge came in, 1:29:40.280 --> 1:29:42.800 Michael McDonald just ran in, bumped Keith Off and. 1:29:44.640 --> 1:29:47.080 I'm stuffy, y'all have Michael McDonald Christopher Cross. 1:29:46.840 --> 1:29:49.040 Like I got eat. You know. The funny thing about 1:29:49.080 --> 1:29:54.960 that that SCTV bit for me was, uh, I had 1:29:55.280 --> 1:29:58.560 just left a friend of mine's room and one of 1:29:58.640 --> 1:30:00.800 the other band members and we were on the road 1:30:01.760 --> 1:30:07.680 and we had just smoked this joint and I was 1:30:08.080 --> 1:30:12.080 really you know, stoned, you know, more than usual kind 1:30:12.120 --> 1:30:14.120 of thing. And I remember sitting there thinking I got 1:30:14.240 --> 1:30:16.240 to go lay down, you know, and I was just 1:30:16.520 --> 1:30:18.960 kind of felt like whatever this stuff was, it was 1:30:19.360 --> 1:30:24.360 you know, ungodly and got anywhere right now but not 1:30:24.520 --> 1:30:27.439 for years, but this was back in the day. But anyway, 1:30:27.520 --> 1:30:29.240 I left and I kind of got my key in 1:30:29.360 --> 1:30:32.800 my door and I'm thinking, man, I'm not really with it. 1:30:32.920 --> 1:30:35.240 And as I walked in, I always used to leave 1:30:35.320 --> 1:30:38.600 my TV on, and that skit was in progress on 1:30:38.720 --> 1:30:41.680 the TV, and I'm like, walked in, I'm going, oh, 1:30:41.880 --> 1:30:47.960 I know that guy. And it took me a second. 1:30:48.040 --> 1:30:51.040 I thought, I think I'm really having a psychotic breakdown. 1:30:56.680 --> 1:30:59.800 Wait, how nerdy are we to not even mention weed 1:31:00.080 --> 1:31:03.080 it all to a Doobie brother into a Doobie brother 1:31:03.160 --> 1:31:04.439 in this ninety minute interview. 1:31:04.560 --> 1:31:06.479 I didn't want to, and I think Steve was scared 1:31:06.479 --> 1:31:07.400 because it was just obvious. 1:31:07.439 --> 1:31:09.560 I was going because you talk about it, well, I 1:31:09.640 --> 1:31:12.280 read the number one growing industry in the United States. 1:31:13.080 --> 1:31:14.080 Yeah, I was reading. 1:31:13.880 --> 1:31:16.000 About your new record, which I really like. I was 1:31:16.080 --> 1:31:19.400 taking it on the way over here, and I was, 1:31:19.600 --> 1:31:21.040 I mean, I listened to it one time and I 1:31:21.160 --> 1:31:22.840 was like, Okay, I mean it sounds like michaem Dons. 1:31:22.840 --> 1:31:25.240 And I read an interview talking about how a lot 1:31:25.280 --> 1:31:28.560 of songs are kind of about your sobriety. Yeah, and 1:31:29.080 --> 1:31:30.760 that just made me hear it in a different way. 1:31:31.360 --> 1:31:32.519 How long have you been sober? 1:31:33.560 --> 1:31:38.439 It's been thirty one years. Wow. It was a good 1:31:38.520 --> 1:31:41.479 idea for me of older people I know, and that's 1:31:41.520 --> 1:31:43.160 sober from from all. 1:31:43.400 --> 1:31:48.479 Yeah everything, yeah, drinking or smoking or nothing. Wow, a 1:31:48.640 --> 1:31:49.479 sober Doobie brother. 1:31:51.760 --> 1:31:55.680 I needed to do that. But yeah, it's you know, 1:31:56.080 --> 1:31:58.479 the best thing I ever decision ever made, you know, 1:31:58.600 --> 1:32:01.639 I mean, obviously it's I don't think I would be here. 1:32:01.960 --> 1:32:05.439 To be quite honest, that became increasingly more obvious to 1:32:05.520 --> 1:32:07.479 me as time went on and I realized that I 1:32:07.560 --> 1:32:09.960 didn't have that much further to go down that road, 1:32:10.000 --> 1:32:14.160 you know, And so there were low points, oh yeah, yeah, yeah, 1:32:14.680 --> 1:32:17.960 a good swath of low point you know. But you know, 1:32:19.360 --> 1:32:21.400 I'm one of the lucky ones, you know. That's that's 1:32:21.520 --> 1:32:26.240 the moral of that story. Yeah, and there's not you know, 1:32:26.360 --> 1:32:31.840 the odds, you know, sobriety apparently aren't that good. But 1:32:31.960 --> 1:32:35.120 it's it's you know, there is a solution out there 1:32:35.240 --> 1:32:39.479 for people who need it, and and God willing, you know, 1:32:39.600 --> 1:32:43.480 you find that, you know, because for me, the alternative 1:32:43.920 --> 1:32:46.080 would have been the bad alternative. 1:32:46.160 --> 1:32:48.800 You know, what was your solution? How were you able 1:32:48.840 --> 1:32:49.960 to stay sover so long? 1:32:50.520 --> 1:32:51.920 Just one day at a time, you know, I just 1:32:53.600 --> 1:32:59.280 really surrendering to the truth of it, you know. I 1:32:59.360 --> 1:33:02.559 think the big, the great obsession for for most people 1:33:02.560 --> 1:33:05.320 who are addicted is that I got this, I can 1:33:05.400 --> 1:33:08.760 handle it. I can I can fix this, you know, 1:33:09.400 --> 1:33:13.800 I can, you know, And it's unfortunately for most of 1:33:13.960 --> 1:33:17.479 us who suffer from addiction, there's not enough willpower in 1:33:17.520 --> 1:33:21.360 the universe that we could muster to fix it once 1:33:21.400 --> 1:33:25.680 we're there, you know. And so there are there are 1:33:25.800 --> 1:33:31.719 solutions that come in the form of community of people 1:33:31.800 --> 1:33:34.400 who are who you know, are suffering from the same 1:33:34.479 --> 1:33:39.439 disease and that and that's you know. I can't really, 1:33:39.640 --> 1:33:42.480 you know, speak beyond that, because I'm not an authority 1:33:42.560 --> 1:33:44.120 on it, you know, but I can say that that 1:33:44.320 --> 1:33:48.519 That's what I would suggest anyone is to find find 1:33:48.560 --> 1:33:52.600 people in sobriety that can share their experienced strength and 1:33:52.640 --> 1:33:53.080 hope with you. 1:33:53.240 --> 1:33:55.560 You know, have you found that being sober? Has it 1:33:56.120 --> 1:33:57.160 helped you preserve your voice? 1:33:57.160 --> 1:34:01.320 Because you sound oh absolutely, yeah, No, I that's that's 1:34:01.600 --> 1:34:03.400 you know, that would have probably died first, but I 1:34:03.400 --> 1:34:08.040 would have been shortly thereafter, you know. Uh no, it's 1:34:09.920 --> 1:34:12.400 you know, most everything worthwhile in my life today is 1:34:12.439 --> 1:34:17.680 a direct result of sobriety. For me, probably none of 1:34:17.760 --> 1:34:19.760 it is anything I would have put on that list 1:34:19.880 --> 1:34:22.920 if you had given it to me, saying, well, if 1:34:22.960 --> 1:34:27.280 you were able to, you know, stop using, what would 1:34:27.320 --> 1:34:30.599 what would you be hoping for? You know? I most 1:34:30.640 --> 1:34:32.920 of what is most important to me today are things 1:34:32.960 --> 1:34:35.000 I would have never even thought of, you know, just 1:34:35.560 --> 1:34:39.800 the simple things, the simple uh aspects of my life. 1:34:39.840 --> 1:34:42.960 That just wouldn't have existed, you know, I would have 1:34:43.040 --> 1:34:44.400 never got to that, you know. 1:34:44.600 --> 1:34:50.760 Part Okay, we're going to wind up the show. But 1:34:50.920 --> 1:34:58.760 there's still like version, there's there's well you worked with 1:34:58.920 --> 1:35:02.439 the great Rot Temperaton. Oh yes, what was that like? 1:35:03.720 --> 1:35:05.559 He's one of the one of my music. 1:35:05.720 --> 1:35:08.880 Yeah, one of the best R and B writers that 1:35:09.040 --> 1:35:11.840 I know. You know, heat Wave was one of the 1:35:12.000 --> 1:35:15.840 best groups you know that I can think of with 1:35:15.960 --> 1:35:18.559 a book of songs that I You know, sometimes when 1:35:18.600 --> 1:35:20.800 you play with the band and then you realize just 1:35:20.880 --> 1:35:23.519 how many songs they actually had. That's happened to me 1:35:23.600 --> 1:35:27.479 many times. You know, we played with AWB, we played 1:35:27.520 --> 1:35:30.559 with the heat Wave a couple of gigs, and it's 1:35:30.640 --> 1:35:32.679 like song after song and you go, oh my god, 1:35:32.720 --> 1:35:35.200 I forgot. And Steely Dan also, you know when I 1:35:35.560 --> 1:35:39.080 or the Doobies, I almost forget how many how deep 1:35:39.120 --> 1:35:40.640 their their songbook is, you know. 1:35:41.640 --> 1:35:41.760 Uh. 1:35:42.040 --> 1:35:43.439 And heat Wave was like that. That was one of 1:35:43.479 --> 1:35:46.240 those groups where there were so many songs. They were 1:35:46.280 --> 1:35:49.640 a British group, you know, with these classic R and 1:35:49.760 --> 1:35:53.360 B songs you know that I thought were just American records. 1:35:53.800 --> 1:35:56.920 I had no idea they were records made in London. 1:35:56.960 --> 1:36:00.200 You know, British can do Americans better than you know. 1:36:00.680 --> 1:36:02.719 And Rod was a great writer, a great producer. 1:36:02.800 --> 1:36:05.320 You know speak speaking of you not being in the 1:36:05.400 --> 1:36:09.080 room at the same time. I heard you also say 1:36:09.120 --> 1:36:09.960 that when you did. 1:36:09.960 --> 1:36:13.320 On my own, had to be in the same room 1:36:13.840 --> 1:36:16.880 that you guys were. No, you didn't even meet. 1:36:17.360 --> 1:36:20.240 I hadn't even met yet, I sang to her voice. No, 1:36:20.280 --> 1:36:22.200 I hadn't hadn't met her yet, you know, I met 1:36:22.280 --> 1:36:25.639 her show. We performed that song for the first time 1:36:26.479 --> 1:36:28.920 the day after we met on the Tonight Show. 1:36:29.800 --> 1:36:31.920 And what about times? 1:36:32.360 --> 1:36:35.080 Every change times Retha was not there when I sang 1:36:35.160 --> 1:36:37.720 to her voice. It was Bert and Carol the. 1:36:41.720 --> 1:36:46.040 Original I did. 1:36:46.400 --> 1:36:48.280 I did perform it with her though at the Grammys. 1:36:49.120 --> 1:36:51.439 I love that song. Are any motherfucker is going to 1:36:51.479 --> 1:36:55.320 talk about be there to ask him what it was? 1:36:57.920 --> 1:36:58.280 All right? 1:36:59.120 --> 1:37:01.000 Yeah? I got to actually do the video with her. 1:37:01.200 --> 1:37:04.080 Yeah, yeah, and talk about the of the videos, the 1:37:04.160 --> 1:37:05.840 Patty and the he. 1:37:05.920 --> 1:37:09.120 Wasn't in the room with her there the video I did. 1:37:09.280 --> 1:37:11.719 I did the shoot the video with the Retha in Detroit, 1:37:11.920 --> 1:37:14.439 but not with pat Patty. She was doing a play 1:37:14.560 --> 1:37:15.400 in New York. 1:37:16.400 --> 1:37:18.800 Shirt the box with God put the video together. The 1:37:18.840 --> 1:37:26.200 song is called on my Own all right, So yeah, 1:37:26.360 --> 1:37:32.720 y'all will be there the Battle of the the battle that. 1:37:37.400 --> 1:37:40.439 Wait, I'm actually more I'm more impressive you name drop 1:37:41.120 --> 1:37:43.479 James's brother Philip than anything, because he's one of my 1:37:43.520 --> 1:37:47.160 favorite singers switch switch Yeah, but with the process had 1:37:47.200 --> 1:37:48.759 the big Yeah, he's the feather. 1:37:49.080 --> 1:37:54.800 Yeah he was in there. But like, did Rod also 1:37:55.000 --> 1:37:55.880 do that as well? 1:37:56.400 --> 1:37:59.560 Or yeah, Rod Robert was one of the writers on 1:37:59.680 --> 1:38:00.800 that Yo there. 1:38:00.880 --> 1:38:04.160 That made that song made a big impression on my 1:38:04.960 --> 1:38:05.919 Christian household. 1:38:08.000 --> 1:38:08.400 That was. 1:38:10.080 --> 1:38:13.960 Yeah, it made a very big impression, especially you know 1:38:15.840 --> 1:38:20.479 the division of secular and you know, the local radio 1:38:20.640 --> 1:38:22.840 station in Philly, w z z D used to play 1:38:22.920 --> 1:38:23.240 that a lot. 1:38:24.439 --> 1:38:27.240 Yes, they would. Was it your intention to make a 1:38:27.360 --> 1:38:29.000 gospel song or pretty much? 1:38:29.160 --> 1:38:30.640 I mean yeah in. 1:38:33.040 --> 1:38:33.479 We Uh. 1:38:34.120 --> 1:38:38.720 It's funny because that was probably the third song we 1:38:38.880 --> 1:38:42.160 wrote that Quincy kept, you know, going and I go 1:38:42.280 --> 1:38:44.439 back to the rejection. You guys need to go back 1:38:44.680 --> 1:38:48.200 write something better, you know, And so we we kept trying, 1:38:48.360 --> 1:38:50.479 you know, and James and I spent a lot of 1:38:50.520 --> 1:38:53.080 time in my studio just kind of righting at there. 1:38:53.200 --> 1:38:55.600 Did you fully flesh out the other two songs that 1:38:55.680 --> 1:38:56.160 didn't make it? 1:38:56.880 --> 1:38:58.599 We made demos on on them. 1:38:59.640 --> 1:39:01.000 Did they wind up being anything? 1:39:01.360 --> 1:39:01.400 No? 1:39:01.800 --> 1:39:04.160 No, I still say. Was it Party Animal? 1:39:04.800 --> 1:39:04.840 No? 1:39:05.040 --> 1:39:08.160 No, it was. 1:39:08.560 --> 1:39:11.760 It was one song I can't remember. It was like 1:39:12.040 --> 1:39:15.120 better Man and h actually was kind of we liked it. 1:39:15.200 --> 1:39:17.080 We thought it was We thought this is gonna use 1:39:17.080 --> 1:39:21.120 She's gonna love this, and it was like, eh, but damn. 1:39:21.439 --> 1:39:25.080 But Yamo was the song that he eventually caught his ear, 1:39:25.200 --> 1:39:30.800 you know, and we were just you know, uh, like 1:39:30.880 --> 1:39:33.360 I said, he spent countless hours just sitting there. We 1:39:33.479 --> 1:39:35.240 had a good time, you know, right, and because he 1:39:35.320 --> 1:39:37.560 and I it was always a good hang, you know 1:39:38.120 --> 1:39:38.639 with James. 1:39:38.680 --> 1:39:43.000 You know, for those of us not familiar with what 1:39:43.120 --> 1:39:46.360 the hell of yamo be there means? No, no, I'm asking, 1:39:47.960 --> 1:39:48.240 but it. 1:39:48.320 --> 1:39:48.840 Was your question. 1:39:50.120 --> 1:39:54.720 Yeah, well it's kind of in reference to God will 1:39:54.760 --> 1:39:57.880 be there. You know. It's like, uh that that's the answer, 1:39:58.040 --> 1:40:03.519 you know, uh uh and yeahweh yeah yeah, but why 1:40:03.680 --> 1:40:06.160 go yeah yeahweh. 1:40:06.760 --> 1:40:08.639 I feel like it was one of those Michael McDonald 1:40:08.920 --> 1:40:13.280 words because it's easy to you. Okay, do you get 1:40:13.360 --> 1:40:16.240 tired of people imitating you? In front of your face. 1:40:19.479 --> 1:40:21.640 I think that was the funny you know, have you 1:40:21.680 --> 1:40:22.960 ever met Anita Baker like. 1:40:23.040 --> 1:40:26.439 Hes she yeah, sure sure and Patty Austin to expressed 1:40:26.520 --> 1:40:30.080 there for you but yeah no, you know it's uh, 1:40:30.360 --> 1:40:32.880 I feel like I'd Sullivan, you know, really big shoe. 1:40:35.280 --> 1:40:37.479 But do they do it in inconvenient moments like when 1:40:37.520 --> 1:40:40.000 you're like trying to sleep in the on the airplane. 1:40:39.520 --> 1:40:43.000 And things like that, or some some guy will stagger 1:40:43.080 --> 1:40:44.360 out of a bar and grab me on. 1:40:44.400 --> 1:40:49.439 The street start singing, bro we did that was the 1:40:49.520 --> 1:40:53.360 baby face and I was highly you had to go down. 1:40:53.640 --> 1:40:56.000 No, seriously, I have a no for real, I have 1:40:56.160 --> 1:40:56.559 a band. 1:40:56.880 --> 1:40:59.160 I have a band called the Foreign Exchange, and we're 1:40:59.200 --> 1:41:02.479 seriously considered doing the night where we perform our songs 1:41:02.560 --> 1:41:09.840 in your voice and call ourselves the for McDonald's and 1:41:09.960 --> 1:41:12.040 like all of us come out with beards, like even 1:41:12.040 --> 1:41:12.640 the girls like. 1:41:16.680 --> 1:41:17.040 Scary. 1:41:17.120 --> 1:41:20.640 But was there a moment when you realize because I 1:41:20.680 --> 1:41:23.000 know we always talk about like blue eyed soul and whatnot, 1:41:23.040 --> 1:41:25.840 but was there a moment when you realize, like I'm 1:41:25.880 --> 1:41:29.320 in an elite type club of I can go here, there, 1:41:29.479 --> 1:41:32.680 do the air and everywhere when it comes to, you know, 1:41:32.840 --> 1:41:35.639 soul music and pop music and whatever else you chose 1:41:35.640 --> 1:41:37.920 to do, but at least you like, you know, it's 1:41:38.000 --> 1:41:40.240 it's very few singers that have like the black community 1:41:40.320 --> 1:41:43.200 in their pocket, like we want to steal you. 1:41:43.240 --> 1:41:44.840 Away, We'll take you in the trade. 1:41:48.920 --> 1:41:52.400 Barbecue, you know. 1:41:53.479 --> 1:41:57.960 It's you know, for me, to me, it's it's that 1:41:58.280 --> 1:42:03.519 that America, that truly American UH music, you know, And 1:42:04.479 --> 1:42:07.240 I don't know that there really is any other besides jazz, 1:42:07.479 --> 1:42:10.479 you know, any other really truly American music. You know. 1:42:11.000 --> 1:42:13.680 It's funny how so much of our culture is UH 1:42:15.240 --> 1:42:19.920 for the problems that this country seems to suffer from 1:42:20.520 --> 1:42:24.680 in terms of racial tensions. And it always reminds me 1:42:24.720 --> 1:42:26.920 the conversations my wife and I have when she says, 1:42:28.120 --> 1:42:32.720 you know, we haven't talked in months, and you know, 1:42:33.120 --> 1:42:36.080 I'm worried about us, you know, and I say something 1:42:36.360 --> 1:42:39.240 brilliant like, well, you know, you know, I have to 1:42:39.280 --> 1:42:43.720 go cut the grass right now, cut the grass. You know, 1:42:43.920 --> 1:42:46.040 I think I feel like cutting grass, you know. And 1:42:46.120 --> 1:42:48.080 it's like that's how we talk to each other in 1:42:48.160 --> 1:42:51.600 this society, you know, rather than because we don't. It's uncomfortable, 1:42:51.600 --> 1:42:52.880 and we don't want to talk about it, you know, 1:42:53.800 --> 1:42:56.760 when really that would solve everything, you know, uh, if 1:42:56.800 --> 1:42:58.519 we really truly just talked about it. 1:42:58.600 --> 1:43:00.920 You know, Uh, there are a few that can lead 1:43:00.960 --> 1:43:03.600 a conversation like you can, because like I said, you 1:43:03.720 --> 1:43:06.000 are loved by everybody. 1:43:06.120 --> 1:43:08.439 Well, you know, I thank you. That's very sweet of 1:43:08.439 --> 1:43:10.320 you to say. I you know you have to talk 1:43:10.320 --> 1:43:13.880 to my wife on that one. Well, but you know 1:43:14.240 --> 1:43:18.800 it's for me. I I've often thought that, you know, 1:43:19.160 --> 1:43:22.479 how much of our culture, from in food and fashion, 1:43:23.120 --> 1:43:27.360 certainly music and any real form of art in this 1:43:27.479 --> 1:43:31.559 country is largely African American influenced. You know, that is uh, 1:43:32.520 --> 1:43:35.280 one of the biggest influences on American culture there is, 1:43:35.520 --> 1:43:37.840 you know, more than anything. You know, if you think 1:43:37.880 --> 1:43:41.360 of French food, you categorize it automatically as French food 1:43:41.800 --> 1:43:45.040 or Italian food. You know, when you think of which 1:43:45.160 --> 1:43:49.960 is largely African American influenced food, it's American, it's barbecue, 1:43:50.040 --> 1:43:51.760 it's it's uh. 1:43:51.880 --> 1:43:54.760 You know, they just forget the root right exactly, you know, I. 1:43:54.800 --> 1:43:58.240 Mean, it's we accept it as totally as American. You know, 1:44:00.040 --> 1:44:04.040 hopefully in our lifetime we will see a country where 1:44:04.400 --> 1:44:07.520 we understand who we are and we go forward. 1:44:13.680 --> 1:44:15.200 Version then we got to stop the episode. 1:44:15.920 --> 1:44:18.760 No, just how was that because they were like making 1:44:18.840 --> 1:44:21.080 fun of you in the movie. But it was I 1:44:21.160 --> 1:44:23.840 mean it was funny, but that kind of you were 1:44:24.280 --> 1:44:25.000 that brought back? 1:44:25.760 --> 1:44:26.960 No, No, it was it was good. 1:44:27.240 --> 1:44:29.439 My friend actually worked on that film as he was 1:44:29.479 --> 1:44:31.720 the music guy on that film, and he would send me, 1:44:32.560 --> 1:44:35.559 uh like dai or whatever scripts you know, and rewrites 1:44:35.560 --> 1:44:38.799 and he goes this, Okay, some of the stuff they 1:44:38.960 --> 1:44:42.720 didn't put in it. It was hilarious but brutal, but hilarious, 1:44:42.800 --> 1:44:45.000 you know. And uh and so in the end it 1:44:45.120 --> 1:44:48.760 was really like the the nicer version of all of it. 1:44:49.040 --> 1:44:51.240 But it was I thought it was hilarious, you know. 1:44:51.400 --> 1:44:53.960 And of course, you know again my kids always enjoyed that. 1:44:54.120 --> 1:44:57.519 You know, they enjoyed rubbing my nose and anything like that, 1:44:57.680 --> 1:44:59.080 you know, the family guy whatever. 1:44:59.240 --> 1:45:01.719 You know, Okay, this this is my last guy, I know. Okay, 1:45:02.080 --> 1:45:04.880 what were your thoughts on Michael Bolton because I thought 1:45:04.960 --> 1:45:06.960 he was kind of trying to I thought he was 1:45:07.040 --> 1:45:07.799 kind of trying. 1:45:07.600 --> 1:45:09.000 To sting a swag a little bit. 1:45:09.640 --> 1:45:12.800 No, I love Michael bolt whatever. It's only one mic 1:45:13.000 --> 1:45:16.320 yeahs from us we recognized. 1:45:18.880 --> 1:45:21.280 So what were your thought because Botwan does want to 1:45:21.360 --> 1:45:22.840 do this show? I think he should. 1:45:23.040 --> 1:45:25.479 I don't know, but I think he's great. 1:45:25.520 --> 1:45:28.000 I mean brothers. Okay. 1:45:28.640 --> 1:45:30.920 The first time I did a gig with Michael Bolton 1:45:31.040 --> 1:45:34.439 was a local thing in Santa Barbara and Kenny Kenny's 1:45:34.840 --> 1:45:38.840 charity that we would all do. And uh, Kenny Logan 1:45:38.880 --> 1:45:42.040 said to me, because this cat is serious, you know, 1:45:42.160 --> 1:45:45.360 he is he is. He sings like we wish we 1:45:45.400 --> 1:45:45.960 could sing. 1:45:46.320 --> 1:45:51.280 Wow and from the school of Ray. But who who 1:45:51.479 --> 1:45:51.760 are you? 1:45:51.920 --> 1:45:51.960 No? 1:45:52.080 --> 1:45:56.599 I mean, he's he's he's trying to channel Ray. Who 1:45:57.680 --> 1:46:00.880 is there anyone that you're trying to channel? The closest 1:46:00.920 --> 1:46:05.000 I can think of is maybe Sarah Bone Like who? Uh, 1:46:05.360 --> 1:46:09.680 you know, because you do have an original voice that 1:46:09.760 --> 1:46:11.440 I can't trace the genesis. 1:46:11.720 --> 1:46:16.960 Right, you know. For me, really it's just I try 1:46:17.080 --> 1:46:19.280 to do the best with what I got, you know 1:46:19.280 --> 1:46:21.040 what I mean, That's that's really what it comes down to. 1:46:21.160 --> 1:46:27.400 I I Ah, I've always I've never really had the 1:46:27.479 --> 1:46:30.559 confidence as a singer per se as far as chops 1:46:30.640 --> 1:46:33.200 and you know technique. You know you say that. 1:46:37.040 --> 1:46:37.479 Let's get. 1:46:40.320 --> 1:46:42.840 No, no, no, I mean seriously, I I uh and 1:46:42.960 --> 1:46:45.360 as I get older, especially, I think, you know, you 1:46:45.439 --> 1:46:47.639 got to kind of follow your voice with the years, 1:46:47.680 --> 1:46:51.800 you know, kind of you know, what, what's the what's 1:46:51.880 --> 1:46:53.760 my strength at this point, you know, and and you 1:46:53.960 --> 1:46:58.080 kind of kind of go with that. I but all 1:46:58.120 --> 1:47:01.160 those singers that you mentioned are all part of my psyche, 1:47:01.400 --> 1:47:05.360 you know, growing up. And and you know, I think 1:47:05.760 --> 1:47:08.040 when the Motown record was presented to me, my first 1:47:08.120 --> 1:47:09.680 thought was, why are they asking. 1:47:09.439 --> 1:47:09.920 Me to do this? 1:47:10.120 --> 1:47:12.360 You know, they came to you to do the cover, yeah, 1:47:12.680 --> 1:47:15.760 the other way, But I remember the next thought was 1:47:15.920 --> 1:47:20.040 you better say yes, You'll be sorry. And and secondly, 1:47:20.080 --> 1:47:22.439 I thought, you know, I have sung these songs in 1:47:22.520 --> 1:47:25.639 bars for so many years, doing my best to emulate 1:47:26.120 --> 1:47:31.120 Marvin Gay or David Ruffin or whoever, trying to kind of, 1:47:31.479 --> 1:47:35.439 you know, grab the spirit of their vocal, you know, 1:47:35.760 --> 1:47:37.720 because that was the whole thing about being a bar band, 1:47:37.840 --> 1:47:40.479 if you could sound like the record, you know, so 1:47:40.840 --> 1:47:44.080 growing up doing that, I thought I should be able 1:47:44.160 --> 1:47:49.280 to kind of bring something to this project that just 1:47:49.600 --> 1:47:52.560 reliving my own experiences of first learning those songs and 1:47:53.000 --> 1:47:55.240 learning to sing them when I was you know, much younger, 1:47:55.280 --> 1:47:55.479 you know. 1:47:55.840 --> 1:47:59.840 Oh before we before Grizzly Bear, Grizzly Bear. Why you 1:48:00.160 --> 1:48:02.600 for the others, Well, you've done Yeah, you've done a 1:48:02.680 --> 1:48:03.960 lot with I love that record. 1:48:04.040 --> 1:48:06.000 I want to hear those guys play here in Manhattan. 1:48:06.040 --> 1:48:07.920 And it was amazing, you know. They were a really 1:48:08.160 --> 1:48:11.040 interesting band, you know, had an incredible following, you know. 1:48:11.320 --> 1:48:15.360 Uh uh and uh it wasn't I had already done 1:48:15.360 --> 1:48:16.879 the record with them, and I really wasn't. 1:48:16.720 --> 1:48:19.440 That aware of their overall sobriety. 1:48:20.000 --> 1:48:22.160 But the shame them live. I was really impressed. 1:48:22.280 --> 1:48:23.519 What made you do the record? Man? 1:48:23.600 --> 1:48:26.240 That you weren't that familiar with them? Like, what makes 1:48:26.280 --> 1:48:27.479 Michael McDonald say yes, you know. 1:48:27.920 --> 1:48:30.800 The song had They had approached me through management, and 1:48:31.200 --> 1:48:32.760 when they played the song for me, I just thought 1:48:32.960 --> 1:48:35.479 it just appealed to me that they had a you know, 1:48:36.640 --> 1:48:38.960 a musicality about it that I wanted to be a 1:48:39.040 --> 1:48:41.040 part of, you know, and I wanted to kind of 1:48:41.120 --> 1:48:44.320 lend myself to if possible. And the fact that it 1:48:44.439 --> 1:48:49.080 was singing backgrounds where I might have shied away from 1:48:49.120 --> 1:48:51.400 it as a piano player or something, you know, figuring 1:48:51.439 --> 1:48:53.400 out I wouldn't know what to play or whatever. But 1:48:54.080 --> 1:48:56.559 as a vocalist, they had probably. They had pretty much 1:48:56.560 --> 1:48:59.640 spelled out what they wanted me to do, and so 1:48:59.800 --> 1:49:02.519 I was as kind of curious as they were about 1:49:02.560 --> 1:49:03.800 how I would sound on it, you know. 1:49:04.080 --> 1:49:09.680 And so were you thrown up with Thundercat's call? No, 1:49:09.920 --> 1:49:12.400 that was one hearing that nobody's all coming. 1:49:12.640 --> 1:49:15.360 Yeah, No, that was Kenny. I have to give Kenny 1:49:15.439 --> 1:49:20.240 credit on that because both he and my kids are 1:49:20.320 --> 1:49:24.560 huge fans of Steve's, you know, and they love Thundercat. 1:49:24.680 --> 1:49:28.160 And when he did that interview and he mentioned Kenny 1:49:28.200 --> 1:49:31.080 and I, Kenny's son called him and said, you know, dad, 1:49:31.360 --> 1:49:35.439 you know Thundercat mentioned you in an interview is an influence. 1:49:35.520 --> 1:49:37.439 And Kenny got right on that. 1:49:37.600 --> 1:49:40.400 And you know, contacted as long as an artist has 1:49:40.439 --> 1:49:42.240 an animal name and sounds cool. 1:49:42.520 --> 1:49:47.160 Yeah right, you don't know nothing, you know. The next thing, man, 1:49:47.240 --> 1:49:47.839 my daughter. 1:49:47.800 --> 1:49:50.360 Is my great source of what's going on today. She 1:49:50.520 --> 1:49:53.360 plays me, you know, we take car trips, and she 1:49:53.479 --> 1:49:56.160 went to Coachella with me when I played with Thundercat there, 1:49:56.200 --> 1:49:59.120 and it was a whole weekend of listening to music 1:49:59.200 --> 1:50:01.120 with her, which I love. I really enjoyed. 1:50:01.200 --> 1:50:02.360 You know, you made her life. 1:50:02.400 --> 1:50:04.360 I'm sure she kept me up late to that we 1:50:04.439 --> 1:50:08.200 were there till the wee hours. And you know in bands. 1:50:08.240 --> 1:50:10.320 I'm sorry, but you and Kenny's kids in bands. 1:50:10.560 --> 1:50:14.000 Uh well, his son was a singer. My son's in 1:50:14.080 --> 1:50:16.280 a in a band, and that my daughter doesn't do it. 1:50:16.360 --> 1:50:19.639 She's but she's got a beautiful voice, but she doesn't 1:50:19.640 --> 1:50:23.880 want to sing professionally, you know, but but she loves music. 1:50:23.920 --> 1:50:24.840 She's a big music fan. 1:50:24.960 --> 1:50:27.840 And he told me that because I thought that we 1:50:27.960 --> 1:50:30.400 were just going to have to explain who we were, Like, okay, 1:50:30.479 --> 1:50:31.400 so we're a band from. 1:50:31.240 --> 1:50:33.320 Philly and you're like, yeah, I know you guys. 1:50:33.640 --> 1:50:34.160 Oh yeah, I know. 1:50:34.600 --> 1:50:35.400 We were throwing off. 1:50:35.520 --> 1:50:41.120 But through her, I've I've actually become more increasingly aware 1:50:41.160 --> 1:50:42.200 of what's going on around me. 1:50:42.360 --> 1:50:43.200 But that's awesome. 1:50:43.840 --> 1:50:45.640 Uh I. 1:50:47.840 --> 1:50:53.679 Man, I get it, I got I got the part. 1:50:53.800 --> 1:50:55.680 This is be there part, What's who is mo. 1:51:00.080 --> 1:51:06.040 Austin Brothers. That's the perfect ending of the show. Michael McDonald, 1:51:06.080 --> 1:51:06.479 We thank you. 1:51:06.479 --> 1:51:09.000 For coming question for sure, thanks for having me. 1:51:09.479 --> 1:51:10.559 This is dream come true. 1:51:11.160 --> 1:51:12.439 Thank you man for real. 1:51:13.000 --> 1:51:14.960 Shout out to my sister Dawn for put me on 1:51:15.080 --> 1:51:17.439 to Michael McDonald. She would kill me if I didn't 1:51:17.520 --> 1:51:18.599 mention that fact to the world. 1:51:18.720 --> 1:51:19.519 That's how I'll. 1:51:19.360 --> 1:51:22.519 Discovered you anyway on behalf of Boss Bill, Paid, Bill 1:51:22.680 --> 1:51:26.000 Fontigoelo Sugar Steve and It's like you and the Great 1:51:26.040 --> 1:51:29.519 Michael McDonald's This is Questlove signing off Mexico. 1:51:29.800 --> 1:51:35.400 Thank You West. 1:51:35.439 --> 1:51:39.320 Love Supreme is a production of iHeartRadio. This classic episode 1:51:39.479 --> 1:51:46.400 was produced by the team at Pandora. For more podcasts 1:51:46.400 --> 1:51:49.960 from iHeart Radio, visit the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, 1:51:50.400 --> 1:51:52.080 or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.