Speaker 1: I'm Emily Chang and this is The Circuit. Finally, after
Speaker 1: nearly two seasons of bringing you interviews with the top
Speaker 1: leaders in tech in business, the Circuit is going to
Speaker 1: be talking about circuits on an actual racing circuit. This
Speaker 1: episode will take you to F one in Austin, but
Speaker 1: first we start at the headquarters of one of the biggest.
Speaker 2: Chip makers in the world.
Speaker 1: There's no shortage of drama when it comes to chip making.
Speaker 2: Even when you're winning.
Speaker 1: The game changes. Do you ever feel like you're running
Speaker 1: a race that just never stops.
Speaker 2: Of course, absolutely, that's exactly what we're doing. I'm running
Speaker 2: like a different company every few years. Like the industry
Speaker 2: is changing that fast. The technology that we're building is
Speaker 2: changing that fast. It's a fantastic race though.
Speaker 1: That's Lisa Sue, the CEO of Advanced micro Devices or AMD.
Speaker 1: She's been at the driver's seat at the chip company
Speaker 1: for ten years, engineering a strategy that transformed it from
Speaker 1: and also ran into a formidable force in gaming, PCs
Speaker 1: and the cloud, which rule just about everything around us.
Speaker 1: It's one of the most ubiquitous and most consequential technologies
Speaker 1: in the world, and it's Lisa Sue's obsession. Born in
Speaker 1: Taiwan with three degrees from MIT, she takes a no
Speaker 1: nonsense approach when it comes to innovation and the competition.
Speaker 1: I want to talk a little bit about your leadership style.
Speaker 1: I've heard you don't take from anyone who's.
Speaker 3: Told you that somebody, But seriously, I've heard your toughest
Speaker 3: nails and I'm sure you have to be How would
Speaker 3: you describe yourself?
Speaker 2: Well, I like to win, if that's okay.
Speaker 1: Sue's next great challenge is catching up to Nvidia, and
Speaker 1: it's CEO Jensen Wang, who, by the way, is her
Speaker 1: distant cousin. She's going head to head to deliver the
Speaker 1: most advanced chips for an AI powered world. The question
Speaker 1: is can she keep up? I met up with Sue
Speaker 1: at AMD's campus and at the US Grand Prix in Austin,
Speaker 1: and fun fact, Sue loves fast cars too. She happens
Speaker 1: to collect porsches herself. AMD is also a sponsor of
Speaker 1: the Mercedes F one team. We dive into her career,
Speaker 1: the bets she's making to stay in the competition, and
Speaker 1: her long view on the global race between China and
Speaker 1: the United States on chip supremacy. Joining me now a
Speaker 1: m d CEO and chair Lisa Sue. Hello, hello, thank
Speaker 1: you so much for doing that.
Speaker 2: Oh, thank you, thank you for coming.
Speaker 1: So great to be in Austin.
Speaker 2: That's where you live, it's where I live.
Speaker 1: How long have you been living in because you were
Speaker 1: in Texas.
Speaker 2: Before, lived in Austin since let's see two thousand and seven,
Speaker 2: So how long has that been. That's been a long time. Yeah, no,
Speaker 2: I used to hear from New York.
Speaker 1: I used to live in New York, okay, and that
Speaker 1: was probably quite a culture shock.
Speaker 2: Yes, it's my second time in Texas though. Okay, so
Speaker 2: I write after my PhD. I my first job was
Speaker 2: at TI So I actually lived in Dallas for not
Speaker 2: a long time.
Speaker 1: But then didn't you go back to New York? Yes, yes, yes,
Speaker 1: because Texas was Texas.
Speaker 2: Texas was tough, no offense.
Speaker 1: But now it's your home. Now it's hold and it's
Speaker 1: probably changed so much.
Speaker 2: It is at Austin is a very nice city. I mean,
Speaker 2: hopefully you'll get to see a little bit of Boston.
Speaker 2: It's just it's really a great city. It's grown so
Speaker 2: much in the last ten to fifteen years.
Speaker 1: How do you feel about Austin as a tech hub.
Speaker 2: Now it's great, everyone's here and this notion of I
Speaker 2: used to think I was just passing by Austin, so
Speaker 2: I was going to live here for a few years
Speaker 2: and then had my way to Silicon Valley. This is
Speaker 2: sort of midpoint and now like I'm in Silicon Valley
Speaker 2: a lot, but one doesn't need to live there.
Speaker 1: And what do you think about the fact that, like
Speaker 1: the center of gravity is still in Silicon Valley and
Speaker 1: the town is still in Silicon Valley, and you just
Speaker 1: can't beat it anywhere else.
Speaker 2: There are a lot of wonderful people in Silicon Valley
Speaker 2: you can't beat just you know, you can walk into
Speaker 2: the coffee shop and you know, meet someone for breakfast
Speaker 2: and somebody else for lunch, So you can't beat that.
Speaker 2: That being the case, we're just so global now. Yeah,
Speaker 2: like everyone is everywhere, so I feel like I'm everywhere.
Speaker 2: I don't actually, even though I live in Austin, I
Speaker 2: don't feel like I live in Austin because I'm not
Speaker 2: in Austin as much as I would like to be.
Speaker 1: You've been CEO of AMD for ten years. You've been
Speaker 1: working in the chip industry for decades. But I want
Speaker 1: to go back to a moment. When did you first
Speaker 1: hear that you were going to be CEO of AMD?
Speaker 2: Well, it was probably maybe September twenty fourteen. Yeah, it's
Speaker 2: one of those phone calls. You know, it's a phone
Speaker 2: call you get from your Chairman of the board, Bruce Claughlin,
Speaker 2: and he said, Lisa, can you talk. I'm like sure,
Speaker 2: and he goes, it's time and I'm like time for what? Uh?
Speaker 2: You know, I had just been COEO for about six
Speaker 2: months or so, and you know, I was learning a
Speaker 2: lot about AMD, a lot about the industry, particularly around PCs,
Speaker 2: and that was sort of new to me when I
Speaker 2: joined AMD. And uh, yeah, he said, you know, the
Speaker 2: board has made a decision they would like you to
Speaker 2: be the next CEO.
Speaker 1: Oh I said, okay, Well how did that feel? It
Speaker 1: was a tough time. I mean, AMD was training at
Speaker 1: two dollars a share. One guy said it was deader
Speaker 1: than dead.
Speaker 2: What made you so was that guy?
Speaker 1: It was an AMD employee? What made you think you
Speaker 1: could prove them wrong?
Speaker 2: I think you have to maybe take a step back
Speaker 2: and just you know a little bit about sort of
Speaker 2: how I think about these things. You know, I've been
Speaker 2: in the semiconductor industry for quite a while. At that
Speaker 2: point in time, you know, let's call it a couple
Speaker 2: of decades. There were so few places in the industry
Speaker 2: where you could really work on bleeding edge technology, and
Speaker 2: AMD was one of those places. So if you ask
Speaker 2: why did I join AMD? I joined AMD because I'm like, look,
Speaker 2: I like working on high performance things and I think
Speaker 2: I can make a difference at this company. So the
Speaker 2: opportunity to be CEO of AMD, it was truly like
Speaker 2: a dream come true. It's like, wow, okay, like you
Speaker 2: think that maybe you can do this, and here you're
Speaker 2: going to have the opportunity to lead a major semiconductor company.
Speaker 2: On Yes, you're right, it wasn't the best time, but
Speaker 2: I was pretty confident that we had the right pieces.
Speaker 2: They just needed to be put together in the right way.
Speaker 1: Now AMD stock is trading in a totally different stratosphere.
Speaker 1: Was there a moment along the way where you really
Speaker 1: saw AMD turn a corner?
Speaker 2: The corner, the corner. There's so many moments when you
Speaker 2: think about ten years, but probably the most important moment
Speaker 2: for us was the launch of our new architecture, the
Speaker 2: launch of Zen you'll hear us talk about Zen a lot.
Speaker 2: Zen was our clean sheet design to really design the
Speaker 2: next generation architecture in CPUs for the next decade, and
Speaker 2: that's what Zen was. We started it back even before
Speaker 2: it became CEO. That work had started. But what we
Speaker 2: needed to do was really make the right bets in
Speaker 2: terms of where technology was going, where computing was going,
Speaker 2: and we made some very good decisions. And seeing Zen
Speaker 2: in action, you know, really getting it out of the labs,
Speaker 2: testing it, having customers test it, you know, launching Zen
Speaker 2: like at that moment, we're like, hmm, we got something
Speaker 2: special here.
Speaker 1: Now. There's no shortage of drama when it comes to
Speaker 1: chip making. Even when you're winning, the game changes. Do
Speaker 1: you ever feel like you're running a race that just
Speaker 1: never stops?
Speaker 2: Oh, of course, of course, absolutely, That's exactly what we're doing.
Speaker 2: But I think what's very interesting about it, it's like
Speaker 2: we're running a race, but it's a different race. Actually,
Speaker 2: So when I think about AMD, I think, but I'm
Speaker 2: running like a different company every few years. The industry
Speaker 2: is changing that fast. The technology that we're building is
Speaker 2: changing that fast. The problems that we're trying to solve
Speaker 2: with our customers are changing that fast. So yes, we're
Speaker 2: a race. It's a fantastic race though, because each race
Speaker 2: is different. It's like a different movie, but it's a
Speaker 2: more exciting movie each time.
Speaker 1: So how do you catch up? I mean, do you
Speaker 1: feel like you're like you can never take a water break?
Speaker 2: Kind of Yeah, it is kind of like that. I mean,
Speaker 2: we are pushing the bleeding edge of technology every minute
Speaker 2: of the day, and we're trying to put more capability
Speaker 2: running the next AI model, running the next computing application.
Speaker 2: And yeah, it is like we're running a very fast race.
Speaker 1: This current AI wave is moving so fast. How would
Speaker 1: you describe the pace right now?
Speaker 2: So I have to tell you, I truly believe AI
Speaker 2: is the most transformational technology that I've seen in my career.
Speaker 2: And you know, we've seen all kinds of technology transitions.
Speaker 2: We've seen the rise of the Internet. We've seen the
Speaker 2: rise of the PCs, mobile phones, cloud, all of these things,
Speaker 2: we're all mega trends. I think AI actually surpasses all
Speaker 2: of that because of the potential in terms of what
Speaker 2: it can do for humanity, what it can do for businesses,
Speaker 2: what it can do across the board. So I'm super
Speaker 2: excited about AI. And when I think about this AI wave,
Speaker 2: it really is about the rate and pace of change. Now,
Speaker 2: if you think about what really woke up the entire
Speaker 2: world to AI, was really like the chat GPT moment, right,
Speaker 2: And I remember that moment. I remember sitting in a
Speaker 2: staff meeting with my staff and having one of my
Speaker 2: guys say, Hey, Lisa, you really need to try this
Speaker 2: chat GPT. It just came out like four or five
Speaker 2: days ago, and it's amazing. And from that moment to
Speaker 2: this day, and I was probably a little less than
Speaker 2: two years ago, the rate and pace of change in
Speaker 2: the industry, whether you're talking about in our industry, in
Speaker 2: the semiconductor industry, or you're talking about on the software
Speaker 2: side or the applications front, it's like faster than anything
Speaker 2: we've ever seen. It's like we've made more progress in
Speaker 2: the last eighteen months than certainly the last ten plus years.
Speaker 2: And that's great. That's what you want. You want technology
Speaker 2: to make a difference. So that's where we are.
Speaker 1: So when you try chat GPT for the first time,
Speaker 1: what went through your head, well.
Speaker 2: Went through my head, is this is the promise of
Speaker 2: what tech can do. AI has been around for a
Speaker 2: long time. So it's not as if AI was completely new,
Speaker 2: but it was not something that was easily accessible. It
Speaker 2: was not something that every company used because you know, frankly,
Speaker 2: you had to have a PhD to be able to
Speaker 2: figure out how to use AI. What chatch Gypt did
Speaker 2: was unlock the ability that everybody could use AI. I
Speaker 2: could use it, You could use it. Everybody can use it.
Speaker 2: My dad can use it. That's what is different about
Speaker 2: this way. That's what's different about large language models, what
Speaker 2: you can do, and that's what set this incredible investment
Speaker 2: cycle that is currently around AI today.
Speaker 1: So in terms of the competitive the broader competitive landscape,
Speaker 1: are we seeing technology rewarding companies that made the right
Speaker 1: choices for punishing a certain company that lost its way.
Speaker 2: Well, I like to say that what we're seeing today
Speaker 2: is is that computing is now so important. Semiconductors are
Speaker 2: so important. You know. One of the things that amazes me.
Speaker 2: You know, when I graduated from college, you know, I
Speaker 2: would tell people I was doing semiconductors and they would say, what,
Speaker 2: what's that? Like you build chips? Like what does that mean?
Speaker 2: People didn't even understand like where technology really fit in
Speaker 2: the grand scheme of things like now everybody knows everybody
Speaker 2: talks about chips. You open up the paper, you open
Speaker 2: up your your browser, and it's all about what's happening
Speaker 2: in the chip industry. Chips are hot, and it's because
Speaker 2: we're so I can say it, like we're so important, right,
Speaker 2: This is like foundational to how we run the world.
Speaker 2: So if you put that in perspective, yeah, I think
Speaker 2: it's a super exciting place to be right now. And
Speaker 2: what it does is it encourages people to take risk.
Speaker 2: It encourages us to really push the envelope because when
Speaker 2: you think about it, when industries are mature, you look
Speaker 2: at how do you get a little bit costs out
Speaker 2: of the system. When an industry is growing by leaps
Speaker 2: and bounds, and when we're trying to get to the
Speaker 2: next wave and the next model, like, you have to
Speaker 2: take risks. You have to be bold in your thinking.
Speaker 2: And that's the most fun time.
Speaker 1: Has the shakeup of a very established industry surprised even you?
Speaker 2: It has a little bit, I have to say. I
Speaker 2: mean what has surprised me a bit is just how
Speaker 2: foundational the conversation has become. When you think about this
Speaker 2: conversation about the resiliency of the world depending on you know,
Speaker 2: semiconductor diversification, like those kinds of things. Those are big things,
Speaker 2: are beyond an industry. They're really underpinning the global economy,
Speaker 2: you know, underpinning national security, those types of things. So yeah,
Speaker 2: I think it's very positive, but it is something that
Speaker 2: for someone who's been in semi conductors for a long time,
Speaker 2: it's different.
Speaker 1: How is this revolution in AI going to fundamentally change
Speaker 1: our relationship with machines.
Speaker 2: My view is that AI gives each of us the
Speaker 2: opportunity to be smarter, more productive, more efficient, and just
Speaker 2: enjoy our lives better because the purposes using technology to
Speaker 2: kind of do the things that you don't want to do,
Speaker 2: or in some cases, for companies to really augment all
Speaker 2: of the let's call it what we want is brilliance
Speaker 2: and creativity and innovation in our employees. What we want
Speaker 2: to do is make all of the let's call it
Speaker 2: the regular work easier, and AI is an opportunity to
Speaker 2: do that well.
Speaker 1: Speaking of the competition in Nvidia is seen as the
Speaker 1: dominant force in AI right now, and AMD is widely
Speaker 1: considered the next best option. Is that good enough for you.
Speaker 1: Do you like being seen as the underdog?
Speaker 2: I wouldn't call it a like or dislike. What I
Speaker 2: would say is AMD has had a history of doing
Speaker 2: amazing things, and from that standpoint, we've always been in
Speaker 2: this place where we haven't necessarily had the same amount
Speaker 2: of people that other larger companies have, but we've certainly
Speaker 2: punched well above our weight in terms of technology capability,
Speaker 2: in terms of impact on the industry. So I love
Speaker 2: our current setup. And why do I love our current setup.
Speaker 2: We're in the most exciting part of the industry, Like
Speaker 2: the most exciting part of the computing industry is how
Speaker 2: do you enable AI? And our view is AI is
Speaker 2: going to be everywhere. AI is going to be in
Speaker 2: every application, every product, everywhere you go, you're going to
Speaker 2: need computing and we're at that place right now.
Speaker 1: Well, sometimes people underestimate the underdog, and that can be
Speaker 1: an advantage.
Speaker 2: I think what people should recognize and when I think
Speaker 2: about the history of technology evolution, it is having a
Speaker 2: great vision for where you want to go and being
Speaker 2: able to execute really, really well through multiple generations. That's
Speaker 2: what we have done well. I feel very fortunate to
Speaker 2: be in the company of the great partners that we
Speaker 2: have across AMD. I think that's what makes it fun
Speaker 2: for me. What makes it fun is, yes, we build
Speaker 2: great things, but it makes it fun when we're working
Speaker 2: with our customers and partners and making that a ten
Speaker 2: x type thing. So having partners like Microsoft and Google
Speaker 2: and Meta and Oracle and all of our broad ecosystem,
Speaker 2: it's yeah, how do we build some incredible technology together.
Speaker 1: Well, let's talk about some of these customers. So many
Speaker 1: of your customers are building their own chips hyperscalers like
Speaker 1: Apple and Meta and Google and Microsoft and Amazon. Is
Speaker 1: that a threat?
Speaker 2: The way I think about it is, Look, this is
Speaker 2: a huge market, Emily, there's like more than enough chips
Speaker 2: for everybody to build. And the beauty of this is
Speaker 2: everyone's recognized that chips are so important. Yes, so it's
Speaker 2: natural that they're going to have their own capability. On
Speaker 2: the other hand, our opportunity is to make one plus
Speaker 2: one greater than three. So our opportunity is actually to
Speaker 2: help our largest partners go faster in terms of what
Speaker 2: they want to implement and do. And that's my philosophy.
Speaker 1: So GPUs were initially built for gaming graphics and now
Speaker 1: they're being used in generative AI. Could these hyper scalers
Speaker 1: come up with their own specific architecture that makes you
Speaker 1: less attractive.
Speaker 2: Well, the beauty of how this industry works is it's
Speaker 2: all about computing at the end of the day. If
Speaker 2: you have good architects, if you know what problem you're
Speaker 2: trying to solve, you're going to come up with great solutions. CPUs,
Speaker 2: by the way, are super important. They really are the
Speaker 2: foundation of traditional computing, an area where you know, over
Speaker 2: the last number of decades we've made a tremendous progress.
Speaker 2: GPUs have been particularly important, as you said, starting with gaming,
Speaker 2: but you know, certainly now in the AI world, I
Speaker 2: think they're great. But there's no one size fits all
Speaker 2: in computing. You're going to need all different types of
Speaker 2: computing and that's what we're able to do. So yeah,
Speaker 2: do I think there's going to be, like ten years
Speaker 2: from now, a different architecture. There could be. There could be,
Speaker 2: but the foundational building blocks are the same and that's
Speaker 2: what we're specializing in.
Speaker 1: How do you plan to evolve pricing over time? Because
Speaker 1: my understanding is that for CPUs, you started cheaper, but
Speaker 1: raise prices when your quality came up. Rather than lowering
Speaker 1: prices for the whole industry. Is that what your strategy
Speaker 1: will be with training chips for example, You know, our.
Speaker 2: Strategy is always to find win wins. Like I'm a
Speaker 2: big believer in long term partnerships, and from that standpoint,
Speaker 2: what we have to do is provide value to our customers.
Speaker 2: And the value from my standpoint is always around, you know,
Speaker 2: how do we make sure that they have better total
Speaker 2: cost of ownership? When you think about with each generation,
Speaker 2: the reason to go to new chips and the reason
Speaker 2: to go to the next generation is because you get
Speaker 2: better performance per dollar, because you're able to do more
Speaker 2: for less, And that's really what we do. And so
Speaker 2: when you think about as technology progresses, our goal is
Speaker 2: to make sure that when we're able to get to
Speaker 2: that next generation that for sure the benefits are shared
Speaker 2: with our customers and to make money of course, of course,
Speaker 2: I mean at the end of the day, we have
Speaker 2: lots of different stakeholders. But I do believe Emily, there's
Speaker 2: a way to balance all of these things. Right. The
Speaker 2: key is great technology is a foundation and the ability
Speaker 2: to work with our customers and partners to really build
Speaker 2: that foundation is something that we very much appreciate.
Speaker 1: There's concern that all this spending on AI isn't justified
Speaker 1: by the returns.
Speaker 2: You're one of the most bullish.
Speaker 1: Why isn't this nineteen ninety nine all over again?
Speaker 2: Oh, I think it's nothing like it, nothing like it.
Speaker 2: You have to think about put short term dynamics aside.
Speaker 2: What do you see in the long term. What we
Speaker 2: see in the long term is every application, every business,
Speaker 2: every industry can be enhanced by AI. Like it will
Speaker 2: make us more productive, it will make us more efficient,
Speaker 2: it will help solve some of the world's most difficult
Speaker 2: research problems. I'm very, very bullish on what it can
Speaker 2: do in healthcare, for example. So these are all avenues
Speaker 2: that we think the technology can make things so much better. So, yeah,
Speaker 2: we're at the very very beginnings. And I can say
Speaker 2: it because we watch it every day like it's good,
Speaker 2: but we know it can get so much better. Like
Speaker 2: we just know that these models will get so much
Speaker 2: better as you go forward. And from that standpoint, we're
Speaker 2: just at the very beginning.
Speaker 1: I want to talk a little bit about your leadership style.
Speaker 1: I've heard you don't take from.
Speaker 3: Anyone who's told you that somebody, but Seriously, I've heard
Speaker 3: your toughest nails, and I'm sure you have to be
Speaker 3: How would you describe yourself?
Speaker 2: Well, I like to win, if that's okay. But what
Speaker 2: I like is, you know, when you look at great
Speaker 2: leaders in the industry, what they really do is they
Speaker 2: make their teams better than they thought they could be. Like,
Speaker 2: that's sort of my philosophy. My philosophy is how do
Speaker 2: we do what people thought was impossible? And with that, yeah,
Speaker 2: you know, we're very ambitious. There's a lot of execution involved,
Speaker 2: but it's super fun at the end of that. And
Speaker 2: what's most fun right now is the work that we're
Speaker 2: doing is actually impacting billions of people's lives. I love
Speaker 2: saying that AMD technology is touched by billions of people
Speaker 2: every day, you know, whether you're talking about what you're
Speaker 2: doing on teams or what you're doing in collaboration environments,
Speaker 2: or what you're doing with Instagram, or what you're doing
Speaker 2: with Netflix or Uber, all of those things. Like when
Speaker 2: you touch those major brands, they're using AMD technology underneath that.
Speaker 2: And that makes me happy because that means that what
Speaker 2: we're working on is something that's important.
Speaker 1: The tech industry can't help but keep making tech that's better, faster, smarter,
Speaker 1: of course, but I also think about the consequences and
Speaker 1: the next generation who's going to live in this generative
Speaker 1: AI world.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: AI tutors sound great, but how do you think about
Speaker 1: the consequences or the potential dark side?
Speaker 2: Well, I don't believe in a world where technology takes over,
Speaker 2: so I'm not one of those believers. I think, at
Speaker 2: the end of the day, as good as technology is,
Speaker 2: having a human actually complete the thought is super important,
Speaker 2: and so yes, AI tutors can be helpful. Personal assistants
Speaker 2: can be helpful. I'd love to have a little bit
Speaker 2: more help organizing my day, but at the end of
Speaker 2: the day, I want to decide what I do. And
Speaker 2: I think that's the key balance that we have to
Speaker 2: have in any usage of technology is recognizing that the
Speaker 2: technology is there to help us. But at the end
Speaker 2: of the day, you can't build a great product without
Speaker 2: the ingenuity of the engineers who get together in a
Speaker 2: room and brainstorm a whole bunch of ideas and come
Speaker 2: up with something that is so much better than any
Speaker 2: one of them could have come up with on their own.
Speaker 1: How do you see this transforming your own workforce. Do
Speaker 1: you want many more AI agents or more direct reports?
Speaker 2: I think we're going to have both. I think we're
Speaker 2: going to have both. But what I really envision is
Speaker 2: a world where, like, for example, in our business, what's
Speaker 2: so critical is we have so many more good ideas
Speaker 2: and we have people to get the job done right.
Speaker 2: That's the bottom line. We're like so many ideas, so
Speaker 2: many trips we want to build, so many new applications,
Speaker 2: so many customers we want to support. We believe that
Speaker 2: AI will help us get more products to market faster,
Speaker 2: help us build more reliable products, help us support customers better,
Speaker 2: help us get our software out to market faster, all
Speaker 2: of those things. So yeah, I need both.
Speaker 1: I know you're an engineer at heart. You've got three
Speaker 1: degrees from MIT. How does that shape your philosophy?
Speaker 2: On some days?
Speaker 1: Are you an engineer first and a CEO second?
Speaker 2: I think on most days I'd like to be an
Speaker 2: engineer first. I have to say, you know, I didn't
Speaker 2: actually want to get a PhD. Even like when I
Speaker 2: went to MIT as a as an undergrad, I studied
Speaker 2: electrical engineering. Then I got my master's and I was like,
Speaker 2: my life is supposed to start now like, I'm supposed
Speaker 2: to go out into the real world and get some
Speaker 2: real world experience, and my parents are like, no, no, no,
Speaker 2: you can only do this once. You can only get
Speaker 2: that education once. And so I regudgingly went into the
Speaker 2: PhD program, and I said, how can I finish this
Speaker 2: as fast as physically possible so I can start my life.
Speaker 2: And what I realize is that the foundation that you
Speaker 2: get from an engineering education just stays with you for
Speaker 2: a life time, which means, you know, my parents were right,
Speaker 2: even though I didn't think so at the time, and
Speaker 2: it just helps you solve problems. So that that's what
Speaker 2: I do. What is the job of an engineer or
Speaker 2: a job of CEO. Our job is to solve problems
Speaker 2: and with that the problems get a little bit more
Speaker 2: interesting and a bit more challenging and a bit more
Speaker 2: impactful as you go on.
Speaker 1: How do you make tough decisions when there isn't a
Speaker 1: clear answer?
Speaker 2: What I like to do is actually spend time with
Speaker 2: the people who are closest to the topic. When I
Speaker 2: started as CEO, I think we had maybe eight thousand
Speaker 2: people and today it's, you know, somewhere north of twenty five.
Speaker 2: You know, twenty six, twenty seven, something like that, And
Speaker 2: you realize that there's a lot of people, but there
Speaker 2: are some who really know what they're talking about. And
Speaker 2: they may not necessarily be my direct reports. They may
Speaker 2: be you know, sort of the chief engineer on a project,
Speaker 2: or you know, the guy that's running something in the lab.
Speaker 2: And the best way to make decisions is to make
Speaker 2: sure that you have good information. It's not perfect information,
Speaker 2: but it's good information from people who are closest to
Speaker 2: the data.
Speaker 1: Now, to win and keep winning, you have to keep
Speaker 1: up the pace and keep bringing the heat over decades.
Speaker 1: How do you keep it up for yourself? How do
Speaker 1: you keep up your own pace? Personally?
Speaker 2: Well, I like what I do. I have to say,
Speaker 2: I really enjoy just the learning part of technology and
Speaker 2: the learning part of being in our industry. Like I
Speaker 2: spend a lot of time with our engineers as they're
Speaker 2: developing products. I spend a lot of time with customers
Speaker 2: as they're thinking about what they need next. And in
Speaker 2: every one of those conversations, I learned something, and I
Speaker 2: learned something that I can then say, hey, you know,
Speaker 2: maybe we should do this just a little bit differently.
Speaker 1: Going back to the guy who said AMD was deader
Speaker 1: than dead. You proved the naysayer is wrong. That has
Speaker 1: to feel like vindication. Do you ever just like shut
Speaker 1: the door and go yes by yourself.
Speaker 2: I don't know that I do that, Emily.
Speaker 1: I'm just imagining, imagining what might happen.
Speaker 2: The days that are really fun are when we get
Speaker 2: our first silicon out, Like we've been planning this product.
Speaker 2: These products take you know, three to five years to
Speaker 2: come to fruition, and when you get that first silicon out,
Speaker 2: you're like, wow, that looks good. That's super fun.
Speaker 1: So is it time for a shot in ay? Like,
Speaker 1: how do you celebrate?
Speaker 2: Oh? Yeah, yeah, those those aren't like after you finish
Speaker 2: one of those days, you're like, cool, that was a
Speaker 2: good day.
Speaker 1: Will Intel ever be what it once was?
Speaker 2: First of all, I have tremendous respect for Intel as
Speaker 2: a company, and you know, for all their leadership all
Speaker 2: these years. I think when we look at the industry
Speaker 2: going forward, for all of us, it's about putting out
Speaker 2: great technology and you know, ensuring that you do that
Speaker 2: time and time again. So you know, that's certainly you know,
Speaker 2: our goal in life, and you know, I imagine that's
Speaker 2: true of most of my.
Speaker 1: Pure CEOs speaking of the broader ecosystem, are we at
Speaker 1: risk of exchanging the dominance of one company Intel for
Speaker 1: the dominance of another in Nvidia.
Speaker 2: When you look at the history of technology arcs, there
Speaker 2: is no one size fits all for computing. There's no
Speaker 2: one company that has all the answers for the breadth
Speaker 2: of applications and problems that there are out there. And
Speaker 2: so yeah, I think competition is a great thing. We
Speaker 2: have just a tremendous set of applications across the industry
Speaker 2: that we're trying to get solutions to. Frankly, I like
Speaker 2: our roadmap a lot. We are very focused on being
Speaker 2: you know, sort of the end to end AI provider
Speaker 2: and that goes across you know, sort of the biggest
Speaker 2: installations in the world and the cloud environments, you know,
Speaker 2: down to what you have in your enterprise businesses to
Speaker 2: your personal computers for example. And you know, it's a
Speaker 2: huge market. Like you know, we just talked about it
Speaker 2: at our latest Advancing AI Day. We believe it's a
Speaker 2: five hundred billion dollar accelerator market by the time we
Speaker 2: get to twenty twenty eight. That's huge opportunity for all
Speaker 2: of us.
Speaker 1: Competition may be a good thing, but do you see
Speaker 1: this as unfair competition?
Speaker 2: I think the key is competition is a good thing,
Speaker 2: and from my perspective, it's a very open industry, and
Speaker 2: so you know, our goal is to make sure that
Speaker 2: one of the things that's very important to us sort
Speaker 2: of AMD has some tenants. Right. Yes, we are very
Speaker 2: focused on a great technology. We're also very focused on
Speaker 2: an open ecosystem. And in open ecosystems, what we want
Speaker 2: to do is allow people to innovate together. And we
Speaker 2: actually think that that's a better answer.
Speaker 1: The US government is considering capping exports of your chips
Speaker 1: and in vidias to other countries. Is that the right call?
Speaker 2: A lot of this conversation around geopolitics and you know,
Speaker 2: sort of the importance of technology. We totally get it.
Speaker 2: I mean, the technology that we're building is some of
Speaker 2: the most powerful chips in the world, and so we
Speaker 2: totally get that there's a national security element of it.
Speaker 2: We are fortunate, we appreciate that there's a lot of
Speaker 2: discussion between US and you know, some of the government
Speaker 2: officials that are working on this. I think the right
Speaker 2: answer is we want there to be as open a
Speaker 2: market as possible while still taking into account the national
Speaker 2: security interests, and it's a give and take.
Speaker 1: You were born in Taiwan, and I know you go
Speaker 1: back to your hometown often. What's your favorite thing to
Speaker 1: do when you're not visiting fabs?
Speaker 2: You know, I really do love Taiwan. And I was
Speaker 2: born in Taian, so it was a small city in
Speaker 2: the southern part of Taiwan. Actually, I was just there
Speaker 2: not too long ago to visit family. And we have
Speaker 2: a big family, you know. My dad had like nine
Speaker 2: siblings and my mom had like six, so it was
Speaker 2: like a big family. So there are lots and lots
Speaker 2: of cousins and aunts and uncles and all of that,
Speaker 2: and so yeah, it's just fun to kind of be
Speaker 2: a part of that.
Speaker 1: Taiwan manufactured ninety percent of ai servers worldwide, and obviously
Speaker 1: it's the world's biggest producer of chips. What is it
Speaker 1: about Taiwan that's put it in a position to have
Speaker 1: such a profound and critical impact on the world.
Speaker 2: I think it's decades of investment and focus. Like if
Speaker 2: you think about the ecosystem in Taiwan around semiconductors, the
Speaker 2: entire sort of fabulous industry was created with the idea
Speaker 2: that there would be a foundry. You know, back whatever
Speaker 2: twenty years ago, it was everybody had to have their
Speaker 2: own manufacturing. And what we found is it just becomes
Speaker 2: very expensive, and frankly, scale is important in semiconductors, so
Speaker 2: it became very expensive if you want to do it yourself,
Speaker 2: and you could do it better with contract manufacturing and foundryes.
Speaker 2: So Timeline Semiconductor has perfected the model of a shared
Speaker 2: service for all of us who are great design companies.
Speaker 2: And yeah, they've done a great job.
Speaker 1: Tension between the US and China doesn't appear to be
Speaker 1: diffusing anytime soon. Could the US efforts to cut off
Speaker 1: China backfire and lead the Chinese chip industry to lead
Speaker 1: by default.
Speaker 2: When we look at the global ecosystem, there's a tremendous
Speaker 2: amount of investment that's going into semiconductors everywhere. And that's
Speaker 2: true in the US, that's true in Europe, that's true,
Speaker 2: you know, in China, and overall. I think the way
Speaker 2: to stay ahead, frankly is to con tinue to invest,
Speaker 2: to continue to push the bleeding edge. That's certainly what
Speaker 2: we're doing. You know. The key there is when you
Speaker 2: look at it. The amount of innovation that happens when
Speaker 2: you have a open ecosystem and when you have an
Speaker 2: open environment is tremendous. And so again we're big proponents
Speaker 2: of that.
Speaker 1: But if the ecosystem doesn't stay open, I guess I
Speaker 1: wonder could that push China to push harder for Taiwan's independence?
Speaker 1: And do you worry about that, Like, do you worry
Speaker 1: about the future of Taiwan?
Speaker 2: Well, I would say we all worry about ensuring that
Speaker 2: there is resiliency in the supply chain. So put China
Speaker 2: and Taiwan aside. I mean, you can say that about anyone,
Speaker 2: like if you had concentration in any particular region, like
Speaker 2: for example, a few years ago, we had a big
Speaker 2: storm in Texas and like things are out for like
Speaker 2: a few days. That's geographic concentration that you want to
Speaker 2: make sure that there's resiliency for. And so yes, we
Speaker 2: always think about how do we get resiliency for the
Speaker 2: supply chain as one of the many, many things that
Speaker 2: we have to think about.
Speaker 1: I know you've moved some of AMG's chip production to
Speaker 1: the TSMC's fab in Arizona. Do you think manufacturing of
Speaker 1: chips will ever move back to the US in a
Speaker 1: meaningful way.
Speaker 2: I think some will. Yeah. Look, I'm a big proponent
Speaker 2: of the Chips Act. I think it's again a recognition
Speaker 2: of how important semiconductors are. I think both on the
Speaker 2: manufacturing side and on the R and D side, the
Speaker 2: Chips Act has been good to remind everyone that you
Speaker 2: investing in a resilient supply chain is a good thing.
Speaker 2: So we're never going to get to the place where
Speaker 2: everything is done in the US, but we can certainly
Speaker 2: get to a place where there's a good amount of
Speaker 2: manufacturing capability in the US well.
Speaker 1: And as you said, for the last several decades, everyone
Speaker 1: has thought software is sexy? Is it Hardware's time again?
Speaker 2: Like?
Speaker 1: Where should kids be going?
Speaker 2: Kids should absolutely look at how they can change the world.
Speaker 2: And you can change the world in hardware.
Speaker 1: Okay, why do you think you can change the world
Speaker 1: in hardware?
Speaker 2: Why we just see what we're building. We're seeing what
Speaker 2: we're building, Like everywhere you turn, it's powered by technology.
Speaker 1: Okay, I have to ask this question. People are kind
Speaker 1: of obsessed with the fact that you and Jensen are
Speaker 1: distant cousins. I know that you are competitors, but do
Speaker 1: you ever tread notes? Do you ever check in on
Speaker 1: at family dinners?
Speaker 2: Well, first of all, Jensen is brilliant, so I fully
Speaker 2: admire him for that. We were really distant, so we
Speaker 2: didn't grow up together. We actually met at an industry event,
Speaker 2: so it wasn't until we were well into our careers
Speaker 2: and we see each other at industry events. Look, there
Speaker 2: are lots of places where some conductor CEOs show up
Speaker 2: from time to time.
Speaker 1: So no family dinners.
Speaker 2: Just to put the rumor to rest, no family dinners.
Speaker 1: Okay, it is a juicy coincidence.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it is an interesting coincidence.
Speaker 1: Nobody gets here without a village. And I saw that
Speaker 1: you mentioned your husband Dan would be with you on
Speaker 1: your perfect day. I know my husband is, you know,
Speaker 1: my cheerleader, my biggest supporter, my life producer, in addition
Speaker 1: to my amazing show producers. Lauren, how has your husband
Speaker 1: impacted your career?
Speaker 2: I've been really lucky throughout sort of life to have
Speaker 2: people who are just so super supportive. I mean, you know,
Speaker 2: starting from my parents, who besides asking me to get
Speaker 2: a PhD, just have been super supportive of just career ambition,
Speaker 2: all of that. And you know I was very lucky
Speaker 2: when I met Dan to meet someone who was just
Speaker 2: equally supportive and his view on the world is he
Speaker 2: loves our products as much as I love our products.
Speaker 2: Like he's always talking to me about what's going on,
Speaker 2: like how's that product development going. He attends all of
Speaker 2: our launch events, and yeah, at the end of the day,
Speaker 2: it feels good because it's something that we share. We
Speaker 2: share this love of technology, and he shares a real
Speaker 2: passion for the work that we do.
Speaker 1: That's so sweet. Everyone's curious about the habits of super
Speaker 1: successful leaders. What are your go tos? Like, what's in
Speaker 1: your daily routine?
Speaker 2: What's in my daily routine this morning, I was up
Speaker 2: at six thirty boxing, So that's in the daily routine?
Speaker 1: Wow?
Speaker 2: Yes, yes, right. You need to have energy when you
Speaker 2: start a morning.
Speaker 1: Heck yeah.
Speaker 2: And a day is either you know, here in the office,
Speaker 2: or it's on the road. I spend a lot of
Speaker 2: time on the road, a lot of time with customers,
Speaker 2: a lot of time with partners. But when I'm here
Speaker 2: in Austin, it's a good day. It's a good day
Speaker 2: to sleep in your own bed, it's a good day
Speaker 2: to check in on how projects are going.
Speaker 1: What's your happy place?
Speaker 2: My happy place? What is my happy place? I know
Speaker 2: you like to golf. I do like to golf. My
Speaker 2: happy place is spending time with family, with teams. Playing
Speaker 2: golf is a great thing. I don't get to play enough,
Speaker 2: that's the problem. That's the problem. It gets hot in Texas,
Speaker 2: so only get to play certain ones of the year.
Speaker 2: But yeah, those are all great things.
Speaker 1: If you were twenty years old, what advice would you
Speaker 1: give yourself?
Speaker 2: Dream big? Like ambition is a great thing, Dream big
Speaker 2: and chart your path.
Speaker 1: What's left to achieve at AMD? What are your targets?
Speaker 2: Oh, Emily, we're just getting started. I mean, wow, what's
Speaker 2: left to achieve? Look, we are in just an amazing
Speaker 2: time for technology, and I truly believe that we're at
Speaker 2: this inflection point where technology becomes even more personal and
Speaker 2: more pervasive, more part of each of our lives, and
Speaker 2: we're at the center of that. So there's so much
Speaker 2: left to do, and it's primarily around you making this
Speaker 2: end to end AI vision a reality that everyone can
Speaker 2: touch and feel and be a part of.
Speaker 1: What else do you want to accomplish in the world
Speaker 1: aside from making am D succeed?
Speaker 2: You know, there are lots of things I'm passionate about
Speaker 2: the next generation of leadership. I was very lucky in
Speaker 2: my career. People paid attention and you know, gave me opportunities.
Speaker 2: I believe that's part of my job as well. There
Speaker 2: should be more women in technology. I think there are more.
Speaker 2: Like we've made a lot of progress over the last
Speaker 2: number of years, but there's a lot more to do.
Speaker 2: So I'm pretty passionate about that. I'm passionate about technology
Speaker 2: for good and using technology in ways to make our
Speaker 2: lives better. Like, I really believe there's an opportunity in
Speaker 2: the intersection of healthcare and technology when I think about
Speaker 2: patient care and medical discoveries and opportunities there, like these
Speaker 2: industries can come closer together. And so those are those
Speaker 2: are some things that I think about.
Speaker 1: I know you said we're making progress on the women
Speaker 1: in technology thing, but sometimes it feels like we're going
Speaker 1: backwards too. It's like three steps forward, two steps back,
Speaker 1: two steps forward, three steps back. Why do you think
Speaker 1: it's important that people know that you can be a
Speaker 1: badass woman's CEO.
Speaker 2: You can do that well. I don't think it's three
Speaker 2: steps forward, two steps backward. I think it's perhaps one
Speaker 2: step forward when we would hope that we're doing three
Speaker 2: or five steps forward. So that's what I would say. Look,
Speaker 2: we are definitely making progress. I mean, there are a
Speaker 2: lot of you know, great women out there. You know,
Speaker 2: one of the organizations you're very passionate about is the
Speaker 2: Global Semiconductor Association has a women's Leadership initiative. They've done
Speaker 2: amazing things. We've had hundreds of women get together and
Speaker 2: network and just give each other both mentoring opportunities, tips, networking,
Speaker 2: just knowing that somebody else is out there. So my
Speaker 2: point is progress is being made. Sure it's not fast enough,
Speaker 2: but why is it important. You know, at the end
Speaker 2: of the day, to do great things, you need to
Speaker 2: have the best people in the room. And the best
Speaker 2: people in the room are men and women, So you
Speaker 2: want to make sure that there's good representation for that.
Speaker 2: One of the things that we've seen at AMD is like,
Speaker 2: I'm really passionate about having more women technical leaders. And
Speaker 2: you know, men and women are different, and so you
Speaker 2: have to coach them differently and give them different advice.
Speaker 2: But at the end of the day, all you can
Speaker 2: do is create opportunities and let people shine in those moments.
Speaker 1: What barriers do you feel like you fain personally and
Speaker 1: how did you overcome them that maybe we could learn from.
Speaker 2: I would say I was very lucky throughout my career.
Speaker 2: But one of the things that I learned along the
Speaker 2: way is again, men and women are different. Like, for example,
Speaker 2: when I was earlier in my career, I was actually
Speaker 2: quite shy, quite shy meeting like you didn't necessarily speak
Speaker 2: up in rooms full of people who had twenty years
Speaker 2: more experience than you did. Like I was like the
Speaker 2: young kid right walking into a room in you know,
Speaker 2: IBM's TJ. Watson Research Center with these brilliant people. And
Speaker 2: what I learned is you should feel pretty confident in
Speaker 2: yourself in your ability to add. And I got great
Speaker 2: opportunities to do that, right. I got a chance to
Speaker 2: work on, you know, some of the latest and greatest,
Speaker 2: most important technologies when I was two years out of college.
Speaker 2: And that built a lot of confidence.
Speaker 1: So what's the lastson in there?
Speaker 2: Have confidence in yourself, take a chance, don't worry about failure,
Speaker 2: sit in those meeting rooms and say what's on your
Speaker 2: mind and volunteer. Sure, I give people this advice a lot.
Speaker 2: I was given this advice when I was a young engineer.
Speaker 2: Run towards problems. And what does that mean? Run towards problems?
Speaker 2: It means, Look, we're all going to work really hard
Speaker 2: every day. You might as well work really hard on
Speaker 2: something that is really important. And so look for that
Speaker 2: hardest problem to solve and volunteer to help because you're
Speaker 2: going to learn a lot in the process. You're going
Speaker 2: to distinguish yourself. And what's the worst thing that's going
Speaker 2: to happen? Do you make a mistake? Okay, fine, get up.
Speaker 2: The next day is another day, and you will have
Speaker 2: learned so much in that process. And thank you for
Speaker 2: paving the way.
Speaker 1: Honestly. Last question, why do you want your legacy to be?
Speaker 2: I want my legacy to be that we have built
Speaker 2: transformational technology. All right, well at work? Thank you, fantastic,
Speaker 2: Thank you, Thanks so much for listening to this edition
Speaker 2: of the Circuit.
Speaker 1: You can catch the full episode on Bloomberg Originals and YouTube.
Speaker 1: I'm Emily Chang, follow me on x and Instagram at
Speaker 1: Emily Chang tv. And you can watch new episodes of
Speaker 1: the Circuit on Bloomberg Television, stream on the Bloomberg app
Speaker 1: or YouTube, and let us know what you think. Leave
Speaker 1: a review. Those extra reviews really make a difference. I'm
Speaker 1: your host and executive producer. Our senior producer is Lauren Ellis.
Speaker 1: Our editor is Alison Casey. Thanks for listening.