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Speaker 1: What is it with the human mind? You just can't win.

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Speaker 1: It's one more thing. I'm strong and getty. One more thing.

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Speaker 2: But before that's fascinating discussion.

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Speaker 1: You know him, you love him. He's a ginger.

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Speaker 2: He's the guy who brought us so one of the

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Speaker 2: greatest pieces of political satire I have ever seen in

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Speaker 2: my life, including Hunter S. Thompson and Mark Twain and

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Speaker 2: hl Making or anybody else. Ryan Long, who did the

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Speaker 2: fantastic woke and racist agree on Everything bit of several

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Speaker 2: years ago. Here he is talking about how all the

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Speaker 2: women of New York are liberal and how to get

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Speaker 2: them to do anything.

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Speaker 3: Probably right now in New York you can get women

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Speaker 3: to do almost anything by just telling them Republicans don't

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Speaker 3: want them to do it.

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Speaker 1: You're like you here, JD. Fans me to build it.

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Speaker 3: Women can't take out the garbage. Oh no, that cruise

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Speaker 3: is saying women aren't allowed to be ready on time.

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Speaker 3: Now you call that movie theater.

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Speaker 1: Tell them what's in the previews this time? The rest

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Speaker 1: of that? That's pretty funny. Did you hear that JD.

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Speaker 1: Vance just said women aren't allowed to be ready on time?

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Speaker 3: Well?

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Speaker 1: I will not put up with that.

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Speaker 4: I wouldn't show that fascist since it's the podcast, I

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Speaker 4: could tell you the third one. He said something like, oh,

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Speaker 4: and Marco Rubio said, we women can't schedule threesomes for

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Speaker 4: their husband or something.

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Speaker 2: Oh, brother, funny.

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Speaker 1: So I have never understood the concept, or I don't

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Speaker 1: think I used to. Maybe I do now of being

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Speaker 1: a perfectionist or perfectionism and the way it holds some

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Speaker 1: people back. Never, I've never fully understood it. I was,

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Speaker 1: you know, I heard about it and had explained, but

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Speaker 1: I still just never like, could it internalize it and

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Speaker 1: understand it or whatever. But I think I got one

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Speaker 1: kid that is that, and I've had it explain now,

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Speaker 1: I mean and everything like that. Do you do you?

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Speaker 1: Does anybody here have any of that in their life

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Speaker 1: or think they suffer from perfectionism? I feel like I

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Speaker 1: clearly clearly don't, but maybe I do. I don't know.

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Speaker 2: Uh no.

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Speaker 5: No.

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Speaker 1: My version of that.

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Speaker 2: Is the the tendency to look at a large project

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Speaker 2: and not be able to internalize the single longest journey

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Speaker 2: takes it starts with a single step. I tend to

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Speaker 2: look at mountains and forget that all you have to

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Speaker 2: do is walk up five feet of it. Then five

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Speaker 2: more feet, then more five more feet. That's how you

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Speaker 2: get up a mountain. And I've worked on that my

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Speaker 2: whole life. But no perfectionism per se.

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Speaker 5: No, Yeah, Katie, I'm trying to think. I don't. Yeah,

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Speaker 5: I don't. I don't think I have an element.

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Speaker 4: I mean I do have like the I hyper focus

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Speaker 4: on something until I get it right, But I don't

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Speaker 4: think it's like a.

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Speaker 1: Do you ever not do something though, because you think

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Speaker 1: you can't get it exactly right? Because that's what perfectionism is.

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Speaker 5: Now now I'll try.

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Speaker 1: Rather than ben There's all kinds of examples being really

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Speaker 1: good at this. You might be really good at it,

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Speaker 1: but it's not as good as you'd like to be. See,

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Speaker 1: you just don't do it at all. That's what holds

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Speaker 1: back a lot of perfectionists.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. Interesting, Yeah, I'm familiar with that impulse, specifically in music.

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Speaker 2: The the bitter joke that anybody who's ever worked on

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Speaker 2: recorded music knows is it's never done. You just stop

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Speaker 2: working on it because you get to the point where

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Speaker 2: you're making yourself crazy and making the song same.

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Speaker 1: So you just writing a book or anything making the picture,

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Speaker 1: You just at some point have to decide okay, I'm

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Speaker 1: stopping now, right.

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Speaker 2: But the fact that you know, most people can say,

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Speaker 2: all right, this is crazy, we got to stop. That's

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Speaker 2: I guess that's what a perfectionist can't do or whatever.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, don't even start, they don't even starty, you would

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Speaker 1: tear it up. I think this is not perfect yet,

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Speaker 1: you'd tear it up and you just screw it and

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Speaker 1: maybe not do it again ever or for a very

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Speaker 1: long time. I wonder how many of the successful people

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Speaker 1: in the world are just because they don't have perfectionism.

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Speaker 1: They can just do my best. I wish it were better,

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Speaker 1: but that's good enough for me, whatever it is starting

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Speaker 1: a business or painting or learning to be a mechanic

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Speaker 1: or whatever the hell it is.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I think, yeah, they probably have a grasp of

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Speaker 2: what are diminishing returns and what does that mean? Maybe

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Speaker 2: they don't even know the term, but they realize, look,

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Speaker 2: if I work this long, it it it's going to

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Speaker 2: be pretty good. And making it two percent better it

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Speaker 2: takes so much time. Now, let's leave that alone, move

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Speaker 2: on to the other thing, and just it's good enough.

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Speaker 2: It's fine.

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Speaker 1: The human mind, you know, there are different levels of

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Speaker 1: that obviously. Yeah, the human mind is so complicated. Yes, Michael.

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Speaker 1: Did you guys ever struggle with, especially earlier in your careers,

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Speaker 1: wanting to do the perfect show, Like if you said

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Speaker 1: something or something went wrong during the show, well, that

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Speaker 1: would be perfectionism. Yeah. No, I just couldn't get past it.

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Speaker 1: You know, I really don't think I've got perfectionism, thank god.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, it's like I was thinking about. Somebody

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Speaker 2: used the incorrectly use the term simplistic the other day.

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Speaker 2: Simple and simplistic are different things. Simplistic means uh, oversimplifying

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Speaker 2: something to the point of absurdity or inaccuracy. Simple is good.

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Speaker 2: Simplistic is distortion. Wanting to have high quality is healthy.

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Speaker 2: Being a perfectionist is unhealthy. So yeah, wanting wanting the show,

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Speaker 2: for instance, to be as good as it can possibly be,

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Speaker 2: and cringing at every moment that didn't come out the

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Speaker 2: way I'd hoped it would, that's wanting quality. That's not paralyzing.

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Speaker 5: Yeah.

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Speaker 4: I absolutely used to do that though, Michael too, When

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Speaker 4: I had rough moments on the air, it.

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Speaker 1: Would eat me up, really interesting.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, and until actually a guy that I worked with,

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Speaker 4: he said, Katie, what can you do about it.

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Speaker 5: It's already gone over there, it's gone, let it go.

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Speaker 5: And it was like, oh, you know you're right.

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Speaker 2: Well, and you were an athlete, right hm moral yeah,

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Speaker 2: oh yeah serious.

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Speaker 5: Right played? Yeah, I played multiple sports, but big time basketball.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. I'm kind of surprised then, because you know, I

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Speaker 2: learned early in life that hey, sometimes if you're pitching,

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Speaker 2: sometimes you give up a hit. You don't want to,

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Speaker 2: but it happens. Your perfection is possible, So just bounce

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Speaker 2: back and come out and play hard.

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Speaker 5: Add a lot of conversations with dad about letting go.

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Speaker 5: What happened on the court.

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Speaker 1: Oh okay, fair enough. Yeah.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: So I don't think this is perfectionism. It's just procrastination,

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Speaker 1: and I don't think they're the same thing. Well, like

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Speaker 1: I have, I always struggle with a stack of paperwork

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Speaker 1: that I never get to my whole life. On my deathbed,

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Speaker 1: I'm going to think, why did you spend like half

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Speaker 1: of your adult life stressed out over that stack of paperwork?

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Speaker 1: But that's what I do. But part of it is

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Speaker 1: like what you're talking about. It just seems like too

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Speaker 1: big a project, Like I can't do the whole thing,

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Speaker 1: so I don't do any So I don't know if

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Speaker 1: that's perfectionism or just procrastination, or if they overlap a lot.

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Speaker 1: But I did have a therapist saying this is one

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Speaker 1: of the best pieces of ice ever got. I was

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Speaker 1: able to implement it for a while. He said, just

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Speaker 1: do one thing every day, and I said, but I'll

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Speaker 1: never get through it doing one thing every day, keeping

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Speaker 1: in mind that I was doing zero things every day

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Speaker 1: at the time, and the doing one thing every day,

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Speaker 1: whether it's cleaning the house or the paperwork or whatever,

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Speaker 1: really made some serious progress. But I always looked at

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Speaker 1: the task of got to tear into that and get

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Speaker 1: that done, as opposed I'm gonna do one and stop.

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Speaker 1: It's pointless. But again, if your fallback is zero, it's

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Speaker 1: not worth I was squandering the precious moments of my

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Speaker 1: life yesterday on Twitter and came across an ad for

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Speaker 1: I think it's called the Fabulous or Fabulous or something

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Speaker 1: like that.

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Speaker 2: It's it was developed by some scientists and at Harvard

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Speaker 2: or Yale or one of your high falutine universities, but

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Speaker 2: it's and it sounded. I actually did a little uh

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Speaker 2: ai searching on what it is and how it works.

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Speaker 2: It has to do with habit building, and it starts

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Speaker 2: like effortless easy and you just do one thing, like

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Speaker 2: one new thing. The one example that gave, which was odd,

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Speaker 2: is drink a cup of water when you wake up

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Speaker 2: every morning and get used to and then attach something

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Speaker 2: semi useful to that, and it just incrementally helps you

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Speaker 2: build the the you know, longest journey begins with a

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Speaker 2: single step feeling of confronting paperwork for instance. It's you know,

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Speaker 2: it's so similar to the idea go to the gym,

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Speaker 2: promise yourself you'll stay there for five minutes, and if

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Speaker 2: you're not digging it, leave after five minutes, and honor that.

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Speaker 2: If you're not digging it, leave, Yeah, and you know,

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Speaker 2: and I've got it in a couple of things I'm doing.

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Speaker 2: Just go up and start write five words or you know,

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Speaker 2: listen to one bass guitar track or whatever, and that's it.

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Speaker 2: You don't have to take on the monster. Just start,

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Speaker 2: see how it's going, and then don't. And it's worked

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Speaker 2: for me. Actually, you know what I got some of

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Speaker 2: this advice Jack was from Claude speaking of AI. I

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Speaker 2: was talking about, Hey, sometimes I feel what's the point

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Speaker 2: and I get to scours and blah blah blah, And

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Speaker 2: they said, all right.

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Speaker 1: Here's what you kill yourself, right, you suck. Maybe if

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Speaker 1: you didn't suck, you wouldn't feel like that suck.

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Speaker 2: Oh, nobody was super good advice about waste to overcome that.

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Speaker 1: I've always wished. I suppose in reality, no addiction is

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Speaker 1: good because by definition means you have no control over it.

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Speaker 1: Why can't I be addicted to working out, or be

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Speaker 1: a workaholic, or be a clean freak or one of

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Speaker 1: those people that I just can't go to bed unless

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Speaker 1: every in my checkbook is completely balanced and everything is

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Speaker 1: in order. Why can't I be one of those people?

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Speaker 1: Just get a little bit? No, no, what, nothing?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, you get what you get.

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Speaker 1: You don't get a choice. Well, I guess that's it.

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Speaker 2: Can we a second take that, Michael? I didn't but

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Speaker 2: I didn't think you'd really put your heart into it.

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Speaker 1: Well, I guess that's it. Okay, but it's not perfect.