WEBVTT - It Could Happen Here Weekly 246 0:00:01.800 --> 0:00:03.080 Also media. 0:00:03.320 --> 0:00:05.720 Hey everybody, Robert Evans here, and I wanted to let 0:00:05.800 --> 0:00:09.440 you know this is a compilation episode. So every episode 0:00:09.560 --> 0:00:12.720 of the week that just happened is here in one 0:00:12.800 --> 0:00:16.480 convenient and with somewhat less ads package for you to 0:00:16.560 --> 0:00:19.040 listen to in a long stretch if you want. If 0:00:19.040 --> 0:00:21.000 you've been listening to the episodes every day this week, 0:00:21.040 --> 0:00:22.759 there's going to be nothing new here for you, but 0:00:23.120 --> 0:00:24.840 you can make your own decisions. 0:00:29.040 --> 0:00:32.080 Hello, dear listener you're listening to it could happen here. 0:00:32.280 --> 0:00:35.960 My name's Carlos. I'm a journalist from Puerto Rico. I'm 0:00:35.960 --> 0:00:37.080 here with James. 0:00:37.800 --> 0:00:38.040 Hey. 0:00:38.120 --> 0:00:38.600 How you doing. 0:00:39.280 --> 0:00:41.240 Hi, Nice to have you on for this. James. 0:00:41.440 --> 0:00:41.839 Yeah. 0:00:42.000 --> 0:00:44.200 Let me ask, have you heard about a little thing 0:00:44.360 --> 0:00:46.280 called imperialism? 0:00:47.120 --> 0:00:51.760 I have During my education in the United Kingdom, it 0:00:51.800 --> 0:00:54.320 was an issue that they raised once or twice. 0:00:55.280 --> 0:00:59.520 So you would say you're quite knowledgeable about imperialism, then sure. 0:01:00.120 --> 0:01:02.280 I think I have a little a little grass of it, 0:01:02.440 --> 0:01:05.679 both from there learning about it and teaching about it. 0:01:05.840 --> 0:01:07.600 There's a whole lot of imperialism, you know. I don't 0:01:07.600 --> 0:01:09.720 think I've covered all of it, so I'm excited to 0:01:10.000 --> 0:01:12.000 learn about some extra parts of. 0:01:12.000 --> 0:01:15.720 It same same, and actually I would say so. I'm 0:01:15.720 --> 0:01:19.800 from Puerto Rico, and as a subject of American imperialism, 0:01:19.880 --> 0:01:24.040 I'm very happy to share this episode today, which is 0:01:24.480 --> 0:01:30.360 kind of a history of American overseas expansion, focused particularly 0:01:30.480 --> 0:01:37.240 on its colonies. There are several American colonies. Puerto Rico 0:01:37.440 --> 0:01:40.480 is the most populous one and the most known, but 0:01:41.240 --> 0:01:44.920 there are several others. So I want to start this 0:01:45.040 --> 0:01:49.560 episode by laying out some definitions and frameworks in case 0:01:49.600 --> 0:01:53.000 people aren't familiar with them. When people think of the 0:01:53.080 --> 0:01:58.000 United States, they typically only think about the contiguous United States, 0:01:58.040 --> 0:02:00.520 also known as the lower forty eight. This is how 0:02:00.560 --> 0:02:03.560 most people imagine the US today, and maybe they include 0:02:03.560 --> 0:02:08.240 Alaska and Hawaii. This is what historian Benedict Anderson calls 0:02:08.760 --> 0:02:13.200 the logo map in his seminal book Imagined Communities. Essentially, 0:02:13.280 --> 0:02:15.320 the way that it works is that if every country 0:02:15.320 --> 0:02:17.920 had merged, then this is the logo that would be 0:02:18.000 --> 0:02:21.320 on it. This is literal in some cases. For example, 0:02:21.360 --> 0:02:23.720 I saw a lot of America two fifty shirts that 0:02:23.800 --> 0:02:26.200 only had the map with the lower forty eight on it. 0:02:27.080 --> 0:02:29.800 The logo map, whether people mean it or not, is 0:02:29.840 --> 0:02:33.480 often a political statement. Whatever people imagine the logo map 0:02:33.520 --> 0:02:36.400 to be is what they consider the dominion of their government. 0:02:37.040 --> 0:02:39.960 For example, if you see an IDF or Russian soldier 0:02:40.320 --> 0:02:43.160 with a patch that includes Gaza and the West Bank 0:02:43.200 --> 0:02:45.560 in Israel or Ukraine as part of Russia, then you 0:02:45.720 --> 0:02:49.919 very likely know that person's thoughts on the territorial borders 0:02:49.960 --> 0:02:53.520 of their respective countries. However, what is included in the 0:02:53.560 --> 0:02:57.240 logo map is often just as important as what isn't included. 0:02:57.919 --> 0:03:00.720 In the case of the United States, which has continuously 0:03:00.800 --> 0:03:04.120 lied to itself about being an empire, the lower forty 0:03:04.120 --> 0:03:07.760 eight logo map hides the country's former territories Alaska and 0:03:07.800 --> 0:03:12.080 Hawaii if they're not included, its current territories like Puerto 0:03:12.160 --> 0:03:15.200 Rico and Guam, as well as a smattering of military 0:03:15.240 --> 0:03:18.360 bases that it owns across the world. This emission, in 0:03:18.400 --> 0:03:22.720 its self conception, is an active American exceptionalism, giving visual 0:03:22.760 --> 0:03:26.600 credence to the fact that the country is one homogeneous polity, 0:03:27.240 --> 0:03:30.480 not a settler colonial state or a global superpower with 0:03:30.600 --> 0:03:34.560 overseas possessions that it continues to colonize to this day. 0:03:35.000 --> 0:03:38.560 Yeah, I think the America two fifty with the lower 0:03:38.600 --> 0:03:41.440 forty eight on it. It's a really fascinating image, right, Like, 0:03:42.120 --> 0:03:45.440 there is no historical argument the countries on that map 0:03:45.480 --> 0:03:48.119 were not the United States two hundred and fifty years ago. 0:03:48.160 --> 0:03:49.280 The place is on that map. 0:03:49.440 --> 0:03:50.040 Absolutely. 0:03:50.680 --> 0:03:53.960 When people think in their mind of their imagined community, 0:03:53.960 --> 0:03:56.520 that is America, that is what they think of. Even 0:03:56.560 --> 0:03:59.000 though I think very few of the T shirt wearers 0:03:59.040 --> 0:04:02.480 with the two map would be like, yes, in Hawaii 0:04:02.480 --> 0:04:06.280 and Alaska colonies and like we should, we should let 0:04:06.280 --> 0:04:10.520 them be yet let alone discussing put Rico, Guam. And 0:04:10.520 --> 0:04:13.520 then you have all the like the Cofa countries, right 0:04:13.640 --> 0:04:17.400 like RMI. Yeah, absolutely, Like I guess if you want 0:04:17.440 --> 0:04:18.719 to put them on a T shirt, you need a 0:04:18.760 --> 0:04:20.840 really fucking big T shirt to keep it to scale, 0:04:21.240 --> 0:04:25.360 right like it it is a vast global empire. Yeah, yeah, 0:04:25.480 --> 0:04:29.960 you have bases in Africa, basis in Greenland, bases all 0:04:29.960 --> 0:04:30.559 over the world. 0:04:31.040 --> 0:04:35.920 Absolutely So at a time when Trump has made several 0:04:36.000 --> 0:04:40.359 overtures towards expanding the physical territory of the United States 0:04:40.400 --> 0:04:43.680 by either making Canada, Greenland or Venezuela or a bunch 0:04:43.680 --> 0:04:48.080 of other places ostensibly the fifty first state, I think 0:04:48.120 --> 0:04:50.960 it's important that people know that the US is not 0:04:51.000 --> 0:04:54.240 only a military and economic empire, but a literal one 0:04:54.760 --> 0:04:58.280 with control over a series of territories and their people 0:04:58.920 --> 0:05:02.480 that spans the pacif and the Caribbean, as well as 0:05:02.520 --> 0:05:07.080 the aforementioned military bases. So to start, I should say 0:05:07.120 --> 0:05:09.960 that that kind of ideological game about the US logo 0:05:10.040 --> 0:05:13.000 map is almost wholeheartedly ripped from the beginning of Daniel 0:05:13.000 --> 0:05:17.000 Imawar's How to Hide an Empire. Also, James, in the 0:05:17.000 --> 0:05:20.320 case of the shirt with all of the territories and colonies, 0:05:20.360 --> 0:05:22.680 that there is a map in there that I will 0:05:22.720 --> 0:05:24.880 show you later that we could put on a T 0:05:25.000 --> 0:05:29.160 shirt of sweet, Okay exciting. So How to Hide an Empire, 0:05:29.279 --> 0:05:35.039 alongside Colonial Crucible, edited by Alfred W. McCoy and Francisco 0:05:35.160 --> 0:05:39.480 as Carano, were monumental sources for these two podcast episodes 0:05:39.520 --> 0:05:42.760 that we're about to do. Anyway, James, I know that 0:05:42.800 --> 0:05:44.960 you've heard this term before, but I want to start 0:05:45.000 --> 0:05:48.839 out by defining the term quote unquote insular area before 0:05:48.839 --> 0:05:51.600 I get to the meat of this episode. When a 0:05:51.640 --> 0:05:54.280 place is an insular area of the US, it means 0:05:54.279 --> 0:05:57.920 that they are a US associated jurisdiction, but aren't states 0:05:58.200 --> 0:06:01.920 or the District of Columbia. This encompasses several different legal 0:06:01.960 --> 0:06:06.279 meanings in terms of sovereignty free of the US's insular areas. 0:06:06.440 --> 0:06:09.159 The Republic of the Marshall Islands, the Federated States of 0:06:09.160 --> 0:06:13.200 Micronesia and Palau are independent nations that have compacts of 0:06:13.279 --> 0:06:16.479 free association with the US. This means that they have 0:06:16.600 --> 0:06:19.920 their own sovereignty, but certain things such as defense, are 0:06:20.040 --> 0:06:22.599 in hands of the United States. I won't be talking 0:06:22.640 --> 0:06:24.360 about them too much, but if you want to learn 0:06:24.360 --> 0:06:26.640 more about them, you should go listen to James's series 0:06:26.680 --> 0:06:29.200 on the Republic of the Marshall Islands. 0:06:29.640 --> 0:06:32.480 Thank you. I was in that RMI when they were 0:06:32.480 --> 0:06:37.120 renegotiating with the Biden admin. They are proud independent country, 0:06:37.160 --> 0:06:38.880 of course, right, and they have sovereignty in a lot 0:06:38.880 --> 0:06:41.760 of issues. But also like the US, didn't come at 0:06:41.760 --> 0:06:45.359 that equal to equal, you know, like the US, a 0:06:45.360 --> 0:06:48.160 country which nuked the Marshall Islands, which it never had 0:06:48.200 --> 0:06:51.960 any quarrel with, it's still not paying people in those 0:06:52.000 --> 0:06:53.920 places what it said it would pay them for the 0:06:54.040 --> 0:06:56.800 damage it did by New Kingdom when they were downwind. 0:06:57.760 --> 0:07:00.880 Like even now when they negotiate, they can't force the 0:07:01.000 --> 0:07:05.800 United States to treat them with really what is human 0:07:05.839 --> 0:07:06.839 BEI basic dignity. 0:07:07.520 --> 0:07:10.119 Yeah, absolutely, And this is you know, I think something 0:07:10.160 --> 0:07:13.800 that extends not only to the countries under the compacts 0:07:13.800 --> 0:07:16.520 of reassociation, but all of its colonies that when they 0:07:16.560 --> 0:07:20.280 are at the bargaining table, it is very clearly an 0:07:20.280 --> 0:07:26.040 incredibly unequal bargaining table with this like global superpower and 0:07:26.440 --> 0:07:29.440 its colonies, and they're trying to reach the colonies are 0:07:29.440 --> 0:07:33.160 trying to reach sometimes more independence or more federal funding 0:07:33.280 --> 0:07:35.040 or something or another. 0:07:35.240 --> 0:07:35.720 Yeah. 0:07:35.800 --> 0:07:38.640 So the other fourteen insular areas are what the US 0:07:38.800 --> 0:07:42.880 calls quote unquote territories, and I should say that fourteen 0:07:43.240 --> 0:07:44.840 doesn't even tell the whole story, but I'm going to 0:07:44.920 --> 0:07:48.200 hold onto that fact for a second. These fourteen are 0:07:48.240 --> 0:07:54.280 divided into thirteen unincorporated territories and one incorporated territory. There's 0:07:54.280 --> 0:07:56.880 a complicated explanation for that that I'm going to explain 0:07:57.120 --> 0:07:59.000 in the next episode. But all you have to know 0:07:59.080 --> 0:08:03.040 for now is that people often talk about these territories 0:08:03.080 --> 0:08:06.000 as being part of the United States. And while that 0:08:06.080 --> 0:08:09.640 is true on a conceptual level, right when you imagine 0:08:09.640 --> 0:08:13.400 the United States, or maybe not, when people going to 0:08:13.440 --> 0:08:15.640 the America two fifty rallies imagine the United States, but 0:08:15.680 --> 0:08:20.080 when you map out the US's global borders, you include 0:08:20.120 --> 0:08:25.920 Puerto Rico, Guam, American Samoa as part of the United States. However, 0:08:26.040 --> 0:08:30.200 in a strictly legal sense, all of the unincorporated territories 0:08:30.680 --> 0:08:34.800 belong to but aren't part of the United States. So 0:08:34.960 --> 0:08:38.960 of these fourteen territories, nine are uninhabited and five have 0:08:39.160 --> 0:08:44.080 people on them. The nine uninhabited territories are Baker Island, 0:08:44.240 --> 0:08:49.319 Holland Island, Jarvis Island, Johnston Atoll, Kingman Reef, Midway Atoll, 0:08:49.960 --> 0:08:54.840 Kalmira Atoll, which is the sole incorporated territory, Wake Island, 0:08:55.160 --> 0:08:59.720 and Navasa Island. There are also two other territories, Seeraniya 0:08:59.760 --> 0:09:03.960 Bang and Bajonuevo Bank, that are claimed by the US 0:09:04.040 --> 0:09:08.760 but administered by Columbia. Meanwhile, Haiti has also historically laid 0:09:08.800 --> 0:09:12.240 claim to Navasa and still does. This is similar for 0:09:12.360 --> 0:09:15.000 Wake Island, which is claimed by the Marshall Islands but 0:09:15.080 --> 0:09:19.480 is administered by the US. In the modern day, these 0:09:19.520 --> 0:09:25.760 remain mostly uninhabited save for military or scientific missions. All 0:09:25.800 --> 0:09:28.320 of these little pieces of land are often grouped together 0:09:28.400 --> 0:09:33.720 as the US minor outlying islands. Yeah, in the calculus 0:09:33.720 --> 0:09:36.640 of the US, they're like so meaningless that they're usually 0:09:36.679 --> 0:09:38.559 not even talked about by their names. 0:09:38.360 --> 0:09:42.520 Right right, It's like a footnote of existence. 0:09:42.559 --> 0:09:47.040 Exactly exactly, even though they have been, as I hope 0:09:47.040 --> 0:09:50.120 to show, very important to the conception of the United 0:09:50.160 --> 0:09:54.520 States as an empire. Meanwhile, the five inhabited territories are 0:09:55.280 --> 0:09:58.719 Puerto Rico, where I'm from and currently located, Guam, the 0:09:58.880 --> 0:10:02.800 US Virgin Islands, the Northern Mariana Islands, and American Samoa. 0:10:03.600 --> 0:10:05.840 So this is going to be split into two episodes. 0:10:05.880 --> 0:10:08.280 The first is kind of giving a crash course on 0:10:08.320 --> 0:10:12.120 the inhabited islands and how the US has claimed the 0:10:12.160 --> 0:10:15.680 minor outlying islands created the skeletal framework on which the 0:10:15.800 --> 0:10:19.520 US would expand its overseas empire. And then the second 0:10:19.559 --> 0:10:23.880 episode is mostly going to be about how the US 0:10:24.000 --> 0:10:28.040 acquired those five uninhabited islands and how they kind of 0:10:28.120 --> 0:10:33.120 shaped the metropol in ways that people rarely conceive of. However, 0:10:33.240 --> 0:10:35.200 before getting into that, I want to make a quick 0:10:35.240 --> 0:10:38.240 note about language. Up until now, I've been using the 0:10:38.280 --> 0:10:42.200 word quote unquote territory to describe these places, just to 0:10:42.240 --> 0:10:44.800 talk about them in the same way the US history 0:10:44.840 --> 0:10:47.040 teacher might talk about them, or how the President of 0:10:47.040 --> 0:10:50.280 the United States might talk about them. But going forward, 0:10:50.400 --> 0:10:54.120 I'll be referring to them by the word quote unquote colony, 0:10:54.679 --> 0:10:57.360 because that's what it's called when a foreign polity controls 0:10:57.400 --> 0:10:58.680 a place and its people. 0:10:59.080 --> 0:11:01.520 Yeah, it's like the book Turtle hints at has done 0:11:01.520 --> 0:11:04.920 a very good job of hiding its empire. But like, 0:11:05.000 --> 0:11:07.840 I think part of that is because it's convinced people 0:11:07.840 --> 0:11:10.400 not to call it by its name, and because it 0:11:10.440 --> 0:11:12.199 hasn't called it by its name and then no one 0:11:12.240 --> 0:11:15.480 else does, then somehow it fits into this magical third 0:11:15.520 --> 0:11:19.280 space between independence and empire, rather than just saying, oh, yeah, 0:11:19.280 --> 0:11:20.840 this is an empire, but they rebranded it. 0:11:21.160 --> 0:11:25.520 Yeah. Absolutely, it's like the of the However, many empires 0:11:25.520 --> 0:11:28.880 that have existed throughout history. The only thing exceptional about 0:11:28.880 --> 0:11:31.600 the US is that it doesn't conceive of itself as 0:11:31.720 --> 0:11:44.839 an empire. So I'm going to assume that a lot 0:11:44.840 --> 0:11:47.720 of people don't know much about the US colonies. So 0:11:47.800 --> 0:11:51.000 here's a crash course. Puerto Rico and the US virsin 0:11:51.080 --> 0:11:54.800 Islands are in the Caribbean, while Guam, the Northern Mariana 0:11:54.840 --> 0:11:58.760 islands in American Samoa are in the Pacific. Between them, 0:11:59.240 --> 0:12:03.160 the five US colonies have about four million people. Except 0:12:03.160 --> 0:12:08.080 for American Samoa, everyone born there is born an American citizen. 0:12:08.400 --> 0:12:12.720 People born in American Samoa are non citizen US nationals. 0:12:13.320 --> 0:12:15.920 If they want to become US citizens, they have to 0:12:15.960 --> 0:12:20.040 go for the naturalization process. People in the colonies can't 0:12:20.120 --> 0:12:24.199 vote in federal elections, and we don't have voting representation 0:12:24.360 --> 0:12:28.720 in Congress. Instead, we have a non voting representative whose 0:12:28.800 --> 0:12:31.040 job is kind of just to squawk at other congress 0:12:31.120 --> 0:12:35.120 people to convince them to do things. Politically, all the colonies, 0:12:35.160 --> 0:12:38.120 say for Puerto Rico, have the US's two party system. 0:12:38.720 --> 0:12:41.960 I should say that American Samoa's elections are nonpartisan, which 0:12:41.960 --> 0:12:44.640 means that while candidates do affiliate with the Republican or 0:12:44.640 --> 0:12:49.640 Democratic parties, they run the ballot as independent. In Puerto Rico, 0:12:49.720 --> 0:12:52.840 political parties are divided based on whether they want Puerto 0:12:52.880 --> 0:12:55.720 Rico to become a state independence or remain in the 0:12:55.720 --> 0:12:59.680 colonial status quo. That has been that way for going 0:12:59.679 --> 0:13:02.880 on about seventy years now. Although some candidates in Puerto 0:13:02.920 --> 0:13:06.160 Rico do affiliate with US political parties, they run representing 0:13:06.200 --> 0:13:09.760 the archipelagos political parties. A bunch of the sources I used, 0:13:09.800 --> 0:13:12.680 like the AP or The Conversation, among others, are linked 0:13:12.679 --> 0:13:16.080 in the show notes if you want more details. Puerto 0:13:16.160 --> 0:13:19.280 Rico is probably the one that people most know about, right, 0:13:19.760 --> 0:13:22.400 and I'm also going to be focusing a lot on 0:13:22.480 --> 0:13:25.440 it throughout this these two episodes. Because I'm from here. 0:13:26.520 --> 0:13:29.400 We're the most populated and largest in terms of land 0:13:29.440 --> 0:13:33.800 mass by several magnitudes. The archipelago really only comes into 0:13:33.840 --> 0:13:38.400 the American consciousness in times of crisis. For example, right now, 0:13:38.400 --> 0:13:40.480 it's in the news because we're facing a pretty bad 0:13:40.520 --> 0:13:43.280 water crisis, with some people having gone more than one 0:13:43.320 --> 0:13:47.080 hundred days with no or an intermitent water service. This 0:13:47.240 --> 0:13:50.240 is common across all the colonies, only getting media coverage 0:13:50.240 --> 0:13:52.880 in times of crisis, and even then it's unlikely that 0:13:52.920 --> 0:13:56.760 they'll receive the same media attention as any state. Puerto 0:13:56.840 --> 0:13:58.520 Rico is often the one that's in then news just 0:13:58.559 --> 0:14:00.880 because it's the biggest, Right But when was the last 0:14:00.880 --> 0:14:04.160 time you heard a let's say, like a CNN report 0:14:04.200 --> 0:14:08.640 about Guam or American Samhow right? In my experience, right, 0:14:08.720 --> 0:14:11.320 only talking about Puerto Rico it's kind of a news 0:14:11.400 --> 0:14:14.640 desert in relation to other states, which I know, right, 0:14:14.720 --> 0:14:19.120 media has been affected everywhere, but the colonies specifically because 0:14:19.120 --> 0:14:21.240 of their kind of colonial status and how it has 0:14:21.280 --> 0:14:25.360 affected them. There's media blackouts from the metropol to them, 0:14:25.400 --> 0:14:28.400 and in them, they are sometimes a little bit of 0:14:28.400 --> 0:14:32.160 news deserts. Yeah, definitely. Yeah. I would wager to say 0:14:32.200 --> 0:14:35.560 that the first time Puerto Rico entered American consciousness in 0:14:35.640 --> 0:14:38.880 recent memory was in twenty seventeen, when hurricanes Irma and 0:14:38.960 --> 0:14:43.440 Maria destroyed the archipelago and its long ailing electrical system, 0:14:43.560 --> 0:14:48.800 causing thousands of deaths and the largest and longest blackout 0:14:48.840 --> 0:14:52.920 in US history. Shortly after that, a Morning Consult poll 0:14:52.960 --> 0:14:56.080 found that only about fifty four percent of Americans knew 0:14:56.080 --> 0:14:59.720 that people here were also American citizens. And that's like 0:15:00.200 --> 0:15:03.800 after kind of once in a lifetime natural disaster. 0:15:04.160 --> 0:15:07.520 Yeah, right, that's been in the headlines, like, and Trump 0:15:07.600 --> 0:15:09.720 is there, like handing out toilet paper, like. 0:15:09.720 --> 0:15:13.320 True, absolutely right, he was doing the kind of free 0:15:13.360 --> 0:15:16.280 point meme. Yeah photo that has become famous. 0:15:16.320 --> 0:15:19.480 Now, Yeah, your handing out is your own word, right, 0:15:21.040 --> 0:15:22.760 flicking toilet paper at people? 0:15:23.520 --> 0:15:26.160 Absolutely, And you know he also like and This is 0:15:26.240 --> 0:15:27.520 kind of a preview of what I'm going to talk 0:15:27.520 --> 0:15:29.920 about next episode or at the end of next episode. 0:15:29.920 --> 0:15:32.520 But he did remark that he wanted to trade Puerto 0:15:32.560 --> 0:15:34.680 Rico for Greenland. 0:15:34.320 --> 0:15:37.640 Was Denmark, So like it would be the Danes who 0:15:37.680 --> 0:15:40.680 would administer Puerto Rico or who's Yeah, who's he trading 0:15:40.720 --> 0:15:40.920 it with? 0:15:41.360 --> 0:15:43.720 Yeah, no, he's trading it with with Denmark. Right, he 0:15:43.760 --> 0:15:47.200 would trade Puerto Rico for Greenland, So Denmark would take 0:15:47.240 --> 0:15:50.920 over Puerto Rico and the US takeover Why not over Greenland? 0:15:51.400 --> 0:15:54.840 You know, we're just kind of there to be bartered with. 0:15:55.280 --> 0:15:58.600 Right, Yeah, this is not a place where people live exactly. 0:15:59.080 --> 0:16:04.600 I'm sure the Dane really embrace like I mean, yeah, fine, 0:16:04.640 --> 0:16:07.000 I guess that is what Embias used to do back 0:16:07.000 --> 0:16:09.640 in the day, Right, we just swap land around. 0:16:10.040 --> 0:16:13.680 Absolutely. I mean, the US bought the Virgin Islands from 0:16:13.720 --> 0:16:17.240 Denmark for a cool twenty five million, right, so yeah, 0:16:18.000 --> 0:16:20.479 there's president for it. Yeah true. 0:16:21.000 --> 0:16:23.920 Yeah, and then not so long ago, Alaska like true. 0:16:26.000 --> 0:16:30.200 So, like I mentioned that, only appearing in US media 0:16:30.320 --> 0:16:32.960 or receiving national attention is very common for the colonies. 0:16:33.040 --> 0:16:35.680 This is particularly the case of Puerto Rico, which has 0:16:35.720 --> 0:16:38.920 been suffering one crisis after another for the last two decades. 0:16:39.680 --> 0:16:43.000 Our siblings and the other colonies receive even less media attention. 0:16:43.600 --> 0:16:46.080 If you're listening and this is the first time you're 0:16:46.120 --> 0:16:49.720 hearing about these colonies. To be honest, this is what 0:16:49.800 --> 0:16:53.360 empire does to those it considers lesser than make them 0:16:53.360 --> 0:16:57.239 invisible in public life until it is socio politically expedient 0:16:57.280 --> 0:17:00.240 to use them for one purpose or another. Yeah, like 0:17:00.680 --> 0:17:04.359 trading us for Greenland. And while I was writing, I 0:17:04.400 --> 0:17:08.720 really struggled to find a concise way of explaining the 0:17:08.760 --> 0:17:12.119 importance of the colonies to the formation of the United 0:17:12.119 --> 0:17:16.040 States as we know it today. Today, we often talk 0:17:16.240 --> 0:17:21.359 about the imperial boomerang produced by several overseas US invasions 0:17:21.600 --> 0:17:24.680 in the Middle East coming back to haunt us. We've 0:17:24.680 --> 0:17:27.919 seen the militarization of police throughout the country, the rise 0:17:28.080 --> 0:17:32.080 of what any Latin American country would call quote unquote manolura, 0:17:32.200 --> 0:17:37.560 politics at home, and much more. Yet, in the conception 0:17:37.840 --> 0:17:42.439 of the American consequences of imperialism, the literal colonies of 0:17:42.480 --> 0:17:46.159 the United States are often left by the wayside, but 0:17:46.280 --> 0:17:49.560 the current and former colonies have shaped the country in 0:17:49.680 --> 0:17:52.399 untold ways of which I'm going to be talking about 0:17:52.440 --> 0:17:57.040 a few today. To quote from colonial crucible quote, the 0:17:57.160 --> 0:18:00.280 United States held most of its larger colonies for just 0:18:00.320 --> 0:18:03.320 a few decades and governed only a few million people, 0:18:04.000 --> 0:18:07.880 Yet empire left an indelible imprint on the United States. 0:18:08.680 --> 0:18:12.840 Colonialism was a crucible that plunged Washington's raw bureaucracy into 0:18:12.880 --> 0:18:16.520 the white heat of nationalist revolution and great power rivalry, 0:18:17.000 --> 0:18:22.919 forging you heretofore unimagined state capacities. Indeed, the ramifications of 0:18:22.960 --> 0:18:26.159 this early American empire were far wider than anyone has 0:18:26.240 --> 0:18:29.359 yet imagined, a marked expansion in the role of the 0:18:29.400 --> 0:18:34.280 federal government for more activistic domestic administration, and the formation 0:18:34.520 --> 0:18:40.040 of an agile, transnational imperial state for more effective global governance. 0:18:41.160 --> 0:18:46.200 I think a lot about how American self conception has 0:18:46.280 --> 0:18:48.920 kind of changed. I guess I think a lot of 0:18:48.920 --> 0:18:54.000 specifically about Cuba, right, and how like, there is not 0:18:54.359 --> 0:18:58.439 an American politician who would not like to be compared 0:18:58.480 --> 0:19:02.680 to Theodore Roosevelt, could be on any party right. Most 0:19:02.680 --> 0:19:04.399 of the wild also like to be compared to FDR, 0:19:04.440 --> 0:19:06.760 which is a whole other interesting thing when you look 0:19:06.800 --> 0:19:10.920 at internment. But that's a separate topic. Part of that 0:19:11.080 --> 0:19:13.720 is that he and his like rough riders, right, these 0:19:13.800 --> 0:19:16.959 volunteers went to Cuba and then they charged up San 0:19:17.040 --> 0:19:21.640 Juan Hill, and like at the time in America, there 0:19:21.840 --> 0:19:24.240 was this feeling that like empires are going to fall 0:19:24.280 --> 0:19:28.200 and we're going to help them. And we went from that, 0:19:28.920 --> 0:19:30.840 and some of that was like yellow press stuff, right, 0:19:31.440 --> 0:19:33.560 sort of whipping up this popular sentiment of like the 0:19:33.600 --> 0:19:37.880 Americans and we destroy empires to the platinum n that, yeah, right, 0:19:37.920 --> 0:19:42.720 and to effectively the United States to factor ruling Cuba 0:19:43.119 --> 0:19:47.879 in formal colonialism. Like what that says about how the 0:19:48.000 --> 0:19:51.520 United States conceived of its role in the world. Even 0:19:51.560 --> 0:19:53.359 like you can go back even further right and see 0:19:53.960 --> 0:19:58.160 Hamilton talking about the revolution in Haiti and the ship 0:19:58.240 --> 0:20:01.439 that didn't make it into the musical, where he is 0:20:01.520 --> 0:20:04.760 just wildly racist and believes that people, the black people 0:20:04.760 --> 0:20:06.760 of Haiti to being capable of self government and to 0:20:06.880 --> 0:20:09.639 just that they might want to appoint a king to like, 0:20:10.320 --> 0:20:13.040 you know, keep them under some kind of control. I 0:20:13.080 --> 0:20:16.800 guess I failed to fail to follow the logic there, 0:20:17.080 --> 0:20:19.679 but I don't particularly care to try. But like it 0:20:19.720 --> 0:20:21.560 says a lot about this country. Right, which does it 0:20:21.640 --> 0:20:25.119 saying like all men are created equal? Well fuck not 0:20:25.160 --> 0:20:26.080 in Haiti though. 0:20:26.040 --> 0:20:28.719 Yeah, not in Haiti, not in the Caribbean, not in 0:20:29.000 --> 0:20:32.880 Latin America, not anywhere but the United States and maybe Europe. 0:20:33.480 --> 0:20:36.359 Yeah, like from sea to Shining Sea is in fact, 0:20:36.400 --> 0:20:38.800 like those people are created equal unless they're indigenous to 0:20:38.840 --> 0:20:40.800 the place that we want, in which case we don't 0:20:40.800 --> 0:20:43.440 even fucking respect our treaties with them, let alone them. 0:20:44.359 --> 0:20:46.639 I mean Britain did this too, but like just a 0:20:46.840 --> 0:20:51.760 jarring disjuncture between rhetoric and actions, and like at the 0:20:51.800 --> 0:20:55.119 same time that that rhetoric could still be used to 0:20:55.320 --> 0:20:58.600 justify colonial actions, right, like when Hearst and the Yellow 0:20:58.640 --> 0:21:02.720 Press a whipping up this idea of like Spanish empire 0:21:02.760 --> 0:21:05.200 in Cuba and how unjust it is and how how 0:21:05.280 --> 0:21:07.119 terrible it is, and that we shouldn't be allowing this 0:21:07.240 --> 0:21:10.000 in our hemisphere. Stop and pause and think about our 0:21:10.040 --> 0:21:14.440 hemisphere and anti colonial terms. But like, genuinely, I'm sure 0:21:14.560 --> 0:21:16.560 that working people in America believe that, right, and some 0:21:16.600 --> 0:21:18.600 of the people who look volunteered to fight their genuine 0:21:18.640 --> 0:21:20.720 like hell, yeah, we're going to liberate another country in 0:21:21.080 --> 0:21:24.240 the Americas, Like fucking all burnt down. 0:21:24.680 --> 0:21:28.119 We're going to bring the US freedom and liberty to 0:21:28.160 --> 0:21:30.520 these people by crushing them. 0:21:30.720 --> 0:21:33.040 Yeah, Like we're the best country in the world, and 0:21:33.640 --> 0:21:35.960 like we're going to share that with you all because 0:21:36.000 --> 0:21:39.280 you're our neighbors to like, actually, psych we get to 0:21:39.320 --> 0:21:41.240 intervene how we want, when we want, whenever we want 0:21:41.280 --> 0:21:44.680 in your politics because we like the stuff that you've got. 0:21:44.880 --> 0:21:49.280 Yeah, because seeing the colonizer from the colonized position, right, 0:21:49.760 --> 0:21:53.080 a lot of the US's approached to the rest of 0:21:53.119 --> 0:21:55.320 the world is either right at the tip of a 0:21:55.320 --> 0:21:59.960 barrel or from a position of imperial and colonial arrogant. 0:22:00.160 --> 0:22:02.560 Like we figured it out before you did. Let me 0:22:02.640 --> 0:22:05.360 teach you how to do it. And if you don't 0:22:05.400 --> 0:22:07.359 follow everything I'm going to say, I'm going to force 0:22:07.400 --> 0:22:10.840 you to do it right. And that's what defined this 0:22:10.960 --> 0:22:15.560 period of colonial expansion by the US between like the 0:22:15.640 --> 0:22:20.640 early eighteen hundreds arguably to now, honestly, right. 0:22:20.600 --> 0:22:24.560 Yeah, Like the attitude is indistinguishable from the attitude that 0:22:24.960 --> 0:22:27.600 compelled Britain to create an emperil of the world. 0:22:27.680 --> 0:22:27.880 Right. 0:22:28.359 --> 0:22:31.000 I love to show my students a white Man's Burden cartoon. 0:22:31.280 --> 0:22:34.200 I'm sure you've seen the one where he's like Uncle 0:22:34.240 --> 0:22:37.960 Sam is like carrying the peoples of like Puerto Rico, 0:22:38.000 --> 0:22:40.560 Guam and Cuba, I think, up in a little basket 0:22:40.640 --> 0:22:41.960 up towards like civilization. 0:22:42.720 --> 0:22:45.560 Yeah, the shining mountain of the shining city on a hill, 0:22:45.640 --> 0:22:47.080 carrying us to salvation. 0:22:47.720 --> 0:22:53.040 Yeah, and just like wildly racist caricatures. But I will 0:22:53.040 --> 0:22:55.080 show that, you know. I've shown that to undergraduates for 0:22:55.119 --> 0:22:58.800 getting on for fifteen years, and it's always wild to 0:22:58.800 --> 0:23:01.880 see their responses to be like, I understand sometimes because 0:23:01.880 --> 0:23:04.360 I'm British there, like I'm coming in there with a 0:23:04.400 --> 0:23:08.160 history of our own imperial grind. But yeah, it's interesting 0:23:08.200 --> 0:23:12.040 to see them conceive of the United States that way. 0:23:12.080 --> 0:23:14.040 I try to wrap their heads around that when they're like, no, 0:23:14.119 --> 0:23:15.960 it's not America. We didn't do that, man, a totally 0:23:15.960 --> 0:23:19.560 different thing. It's fascinating that they could come through eighteen 0:23:19.640 --> 0:23:23.679 years at a high school system and not be asked 0:23:24.040 --> 0:23:26.320 to reflect on that or even be aware of it, 0:23:26.359 --> 0:23:26.560 you know. 0:23:27.760 --> 0:23:30.720 And actually speaking of a colonial cartoons, I pulled it 0:23:30.840 --> 0:23:33.439 up right now, but I'm really partial too. Have you 0:23:33.480 --> 0:23:37.679 seen this cartoon from Puck that I believe was made 0:23:37.880 --> 0:23:41.600 in nineteen hundred where it's Uncle Sam teaching its newly 0:23:41.640 --> 0:23:45.320 acquired colonies Hawaii, Philippines, Puerto Rico. Q. I can send 0:23:45.359 --> 0:23:47.639 the link in the chat right now. Yeah, yeah, I 0:23:47.680 --> 0:23:50.200 think about it a lot because I growing up in 0:23:50.240 --> 0:23:53.439 Puerto Rico and being educated by the school system. I 0:23:53.480 --> 0:23:56.520 don't know about the American school system very much or 0:23:56.680 --> 0:24:00.439 specifically how it's taught, but there was a critical to 0:24:00.480 --> 0:24:03.480 the way that we were taught about the US is 0:24:04.640 --> 0:24:07.919 kind of capture and colonization of Puerto Rica. And that 0:24:08.000 --> 0:24:10.600 was mostly because I had a really great history teacher 0:24:10.800 --> 0:24:14.120 my last senior year of high school. But this cartoon 0:24:14.160 --> 0:24:16.760 has really stayed in my memory for a very long 0:24:16.800 --> 0:24:19.840 time because it's like, oh, yeah, it's how I view 0:24:19.960 --> 0:24:24.360 like the US's approach to so many foreign nations. Right, 0:24:24.440 --> 0:24:27.119 you have so many facets of this, Right, you have 0:24:27.400 --> 0:24:31.240 the black population, which obviously the US is historically oppressed 0:24:31.240 --> 0:24:36.000 and enslaved for centuries. You have the indigenous population, also 0:24:36.119 --> 0:24:39.440 historically oppressed and killed for centuries by the US government, 0:24:39.640 --> 0:24:42.920 represented in the corner. And then you have these new 0:24:43.080 --> 0:24:47.480 states which are like depicted as white people in colonial 0:24:47.600 --> 0:24:51.960 dress being good students. And then you have Cuba, Puerto Rico, Hawaii. 0:24:52.359 --> 0:24:56.760 The Philippines upfront depicted as not in like the clothes 0:24:56.840 --> 0:24:58.439 the rest of the people are wearing, as if they 0:24:58.480 --> 0:25:03.960 need special attention to. He taught the kind of education 0:25:04.080 --> 0:25:06.760 of freedom and liberty by Uncle Sam, right right. I 0:25:06.800 --> 0:25:08.919 don't know. I think about this like anytime I'm like 0:25:09.119 --> 0:25:12.679 conceptualizing colonialism. This is this is it for me? They 0:25:12.800 --> 0:25:13.360 peaked here. 0:25:13.680 --> 0:25:19.760 Yeah, that it's wild. It's interesting that Alaska is amongst 0:25:19.840 --> 0:25:22.000 the like I know what to call them, like the 0:25:22.080 --> 0:25:27.200 older kids. They're trying to portray like a civilization savagery 0:25:27.280 --> 0:25:31.000 binary here right, Like, Yeah, that's what's what's happening. Alaska 0:25:31.160 --> 0:25:33.880 is up there with the civilized stage. And then there's 0:25:33.960 --> 0:25:37.359 someone I know, what's happening with his person outside the doors, 0:25:37.400 --> 0:25:39.080 just like the Chinese exclusion. 0:25:39.119 --> 0:25:41.679 Actually I believe so, Yeah, I think that's that's what 0:25:41.720 --> 0:25:43.720 they're trying to portray. 0:25:44.320 --> 0:25:48.000 Yeah, it's an excellent cartoon. Yeah, but yeah, there's a 0:25:48.040 --> 0:25:49.160 whole lot happening here. 0:25:49.480 --> 0:25:51.719 Listeners. I know that this is an audio median, but 0:25:51.840 --> 0:25:55.880 go go google School Begins and Puck and then you'll 0:25:55.880 --> 0:25:58.479 see it. It's it's really yep. I don't know if 0:25:58.520 --> 0:26:01.159 they were made this like rope was fully racist, or 0:26:01.200 --> 0:26:04.080 if they were just really good at depicting the US's racism. 0:26:04.119 --> 0:26:07.159 But they popped off with this one. Yeah, we should 0:26:07.160 --> 0:26:09.399 teach this in every school everywhere. 0:26:09.640 --> 0:26:13.120 Yeah, it's pretty Uh, it gets right to the point. 0:26:13.440 --> 0:26:18.440 Yeah, exactly. So I want to be clear that the 0:26:18.480 --> 0:26:21.560 way that the US was shaped by its colonies is 0:26:21.560 --> 0:26:27.440 not a uniquely American phenomenon. Paraphrasing from colonial crucible, Every 0:26:27.440 --> 0:26:31.240 empire is shaped by the Promethean experience of the colonizer 0:26:31.280 --> 0:26:35.960 and the colonized, both empowering and eviscerating, yet mutually transformative 0:26:36.000 --> 0:26:39.959 and traumatic. The chain of continuity that now spans almost 0:26:39.960 --> 0:26:44.119 two hundred years of seafaring colonization has profoundly shaped the 0:26:44.160 --> 0:26:48.840 American Empire, unleashing the catalytic forces that have shaped the 0:26:48.880 --> 0:26:52.200 formation of the American state up to this day, the 0:26:52.320 --> 0:26:56.480 lasting imprint of which is evident during Washington's recent misadventures 0:26:56.520 --> 0:26:59.000 in the Middle East. And when they wrote that, it 0:26:59.040 --> 0:27:01.680 was two thousand and nine, so they were talking about 0:27:01.680 --> 0:27:05.440 the invasion of Iraq and Afghanistan, But twenty years later 0:27:05.880 --> 0:27:09.399 it applies almost equally to the current war with Iran. 0:27:10.640 --> 0:27:12.520 With that out of the way, to start with how 0:27:12.560 --> 0:27:16.480 the US expanded, passed the American continent and became a 0:27:16.560 --> 0:27:19.720 seafaring empire. We need to go back two hundred years 0:27:19.760 --> 0:27:22.639 to the mid eighteen hundreds and talk about bird shit. 0:27:34.520 --> 0:27:37.920 Manifest destiny had taken the United States on a genocidal 0:27:38.000 --> 0:27:42.040 campaign that displaced indigenous people and killed them from sea 0:27:42.119 --> 0:27:46.440 to shining Sea. Meanwhile, the Monroe Doctrine, while still nascent 0:27:46.520 --> 0:27:50.320 and not completely enforceable by the American state, created the 0:27:50.400 --> 0:27:54.400 ideological and legal framework for the country to overflow from 0:27:54.400 --> 0:27:58.560 its recently established national borders. In the midst of all 0:27:58.560 --> 0:28:01.959 of this, industrial agricate culture was becoming the norm across 0:28:02.000 --> 0:28:04.320 the world and in the United States, which meant that 0:28:04.320 --> 0:28:08.520 there was a severe need for fertilizer to grow crops quickly. 0:28:09.359 --> 0:28:12.960 People were experimenting with different things, but the one fertilizer 0:28:13.040 --> 0:28:17.919 that everyone wanted was guano, also known as white gold. 0:28:18.280 --> 0:28:21.920 Guano is the accumulated poop of birds, bats, and seals. 0:28:22.400 --> 0:28:25.520 It contained several nutrients that are very good for quick 0:28:25.600 --> 0:28:30.119 agricultural growth. However, the thing about guano is that it 0:28:30.200 --> 0:28:35.320 mostly grows on far off islands or caves. So the 0:28:35.320 --> 0:28:38.480 big problem with guano is that at the time, most 0:28:38.480 --> 0:28:41.080 of it was contained in islands off the coast of 0:28:41.120 --> 0:28:45.000 the newly independent state of Peru. And I'm talking about 0:28:45.200 --> 0:28:48.080 states in the nation state, the country essentially a country 0:28:48.120 --> 0:28:50.880 of Peru. And that was a problem for the United 0:28:50.880 --> 0:28:54.440 States because they needed guano bad but they didn't want 0:28:54.440 --> 0:28:57.080 to rely on a foreign country for it. And I 0:28:57.080 --> 0:28:58.640 should say that a lot of this comes from how 0:28:58.640 --> 0:29:01.640 to Hide an Empire and an article titled Guano and 0:29:01.680 --> 0:29:05.600 the Rise of American Empire by Mauri Siobadancourt published in 0:29:05.720 --> 0:29:10.760 Sage Journal. So, with a desperate need for guano, what 0:29:10.880 --> 0:29:13.800 is a fledgling empire to do but set sail and 0:29:13.920 --> 0:29:17.520 lay claim to the islands that contained large deposits of guano. 0:29:18.240 --> 0:29:22.360 US businessmen originally wanted the US to take Peru's Lobo 0:29:22.400 --> 0:29:25.280 Islands for themselves so they could extract the guano, but 0:29:25.400 --> 0:29:29.120 Peru protested and the US backed off. However, the American 0:29:29.160 --> 0:29:33.240 taste for guano was clear, and in eighteen fifty six, 0:29:33.400 --> 0:29:36.800 the US passed the Guano Islands Act, which allowed any 0:29:36.920 --> 0:29:40.000 US citizen to lay claim to uninhabited islands that had 0:29:40.000 --> 0:29:42.720 guano on them in the name of the United States. 0:29:43.640 --> 0:29:47.560 American entrepreneurs set sale for poop covered islands, and while 0:29:47.560 --> 0:29:50.800 the law specifically mentioned that they had to be not 0:29:50.960 --> 0:29:54.440 claimed by other countries, that didn't really stop people from 0:29:54.480 --> 0:29:58.640 claiming islands that were also claimed by other nations like Britain, Honduras, 0:29:58.680 --> 0:30:01.600 and Colombia. It's kind of like that meme from Arfur 0:30:02.160 --> 0:30:05.760 that says, a sign can stop me because I can't read. 0:30:06.240 --> 0:30:10.520 Yeah, this is like the wildest period. Maybe not, but 0:30:10.680 --> 0:30:14.800 like it's just this bonkers period of US history where 0:30:14.880 --> 0:30:20.200 you can personally expand the imperial possessions of the United States, 0:30:20.240 --> 0:30:21.840 like on your own free will of volition. 0:30:22.840 --> 0:30:25.240 Right, So it's like you know, I mean that's like 0:30:25.320 --> 0:30:26.600 part of the American conception. 0:30:26.760 --> 0:30:26.880 Right. 0:30:26.920 --> 0:30:30.600 You reached a place that was empty of people, you 0:30:30.680 --> 0:30:33.680 settled there, and now you have brought the US to it. Right, 0:30:33.680 --> 0:30:36.880 that's the story that America tells itself at. 0:30:36.840 --> 0:30:41.000 Least, right, Like that's manifest destiny, like writ large across 0:30:41.000 --> 0:30:42.240 the whole global map. 0:30:42.480 --> 0:30:46.320 Absolutely so per how to hide an empire. By the 0:30:46.400 --> 0:30:49.280 time that last claim was filed in nineteen oh two, 0:30:49.480 --> 0:30:52.640 the US had added ninety four islands to its dominion. 0:30:53.240 --> 0:30:56.880 All of these were uninhabited, so they weren't quite colonies 0:30:57.000 --> 0:31:00.960 until US industry moved to them, establishing guano mining outfits 0:31:00.960 --> 0:31:04.200 that used black laborers essentially induced to work there under 0:31:04.280 --> 0:31:08.280 false pretenses in horrible conditions. In more ways than one, 0:31:08.400 --> 0:31:12.760 the US had essentially exported Southern style plantations beyond its 0:31:12.800 --> 0:31:17.040 continental borders to the edges of its empire. Nowhere was 0:31:17.080 --> 0:31:19.560 this more clear than a tiny island off the coast 0:31:19.560 --> 0:31:23.120 of Haiti called Davasa that the US still owns to 0:31:23.160 --> 0:31:27.400 this day. Workers there mostly consisted of black laborers from Baltimore. 0:31:28.080 --> 0:31:31.640 Fed up with horrible conditions, the workers eventually revolted, and 0:31:31.800 --> 0:31:35.880 five white overseers died during the ensuing riot. For this, 0:31:36.080 --> 0:31:39.280 dozens of workers were charged with crimes ranging from rioting 0:31:39.360 --> 0:31:42.800 to murder. Free were given death sentences, and when their 0:31:42.840 --> 0:31:46.480 case eventually reached the Supreme Court, their defense rested on 0:31:46.560 --> 0:31:51.160 a hail mary play. Since Haiti also claimed Navasa, the 0:31:51.360 --> 0:31:54.640 US did not have jurisdiction to prosecute them, and this 0:31:54.840 --> 0:31:57.400 was to be clear an extreme long shot, and the 0:31:57.480 --> 0:32:01.280 decision from this would define the US's legal approach to 0:32:01.320 --> 0:32:06.720 its colonies for essentially until now. The Supreme Court sided 0:32:06.800 --> 0:32:10.560 with the prosecution, laying it out explicitly that the US 0:32:10.600 --> 0:32:15.360 owned Navasa and other territories, and that American citizens there 0:32:15.680 --> 0:32:18.840 were working on American soil, even if it was a 0:32:18.880 --> 0:32:23.200 sort of corporate fiefdom. President Harrison eventually commuted the death 0:32:23.240 --> 0:32:26.040 sentences to life sentences pro write up in the History 0:32:26.120 --> 0:32:29.840 News Network, but raised the issue that the US needed 0:32:29.840 --> 0:32:34.120 to better extend its government to these territories, ostensibly to 0:32:34.200 --> 0:32:38.800 protected citizens and its interest, no matter how far away 0:32:38.840 --> 0:32:42.400 their people or its land was. At time of recording, 0:32:42.400 --> 0:32:44.920 the ninety four Guano Islands have diminished to less than 0:32:44.960 --> 0:32:49.280 ten for various treaties and sessions. Nevertheless, the US minor 0:32:49.320 --> 0:32:53.320 outlying islands still represent important footholds of US military power 0:32:53.760 --> 0:32:57.720 and American sovereignty across the world, particularly in the Pacific. 0:32:58.720 --> 0:33:02.200 So I started with these often forgotten islands because they 0:33:02.240 --> 0:33:06.520 have left a lasting legacy upon the American Empire, as 0:33:06.600 --> 0:33:10.280 highlighted by How to Hide an Empire. The first legacy 0:33:10.360 --> 0:33:14.080 is legal. Per the Guano Islands Act, these poop covered 0:33:14.200 --> 0:33:18.400 rocks shall quote at the distrection of the President, be 0:33:18.520 --> 0:33:23.240 considered as appertaining to the United States. Appertaining is a 0:33:23.280 --> 0:33:26.400 strange word, right. It's mostly used as a legal term, 0:33:26.440 --> 0:33:29.920 but to simplify, it means that these islands belong to 0:33:29.960 --> 0:33:33.280 the United States. This word would come to define US 0:33:33.320 --> 0:33:37.400 overseas possessions as legally belonging to, but not part of, 0:33:37.440 --> 0:33:41.560 the United States. Right, it's this appertains to me. Doesn't 0:33:41.560 --> 0:33:44.160 necessarily mean that it's part of me, but I own it. 0:33:45.000 --> 0:33:49.680 It's mine. Yeah, it's like owned by the US, but 0:33:49.920 --> 0:33:50.680 in the US. 0:33:51.240 --> 0:33:56.720 Yeah, in a strictly legal sense, legal sense, yah, yeah, right, Yeah. 0:33:57.000 --> 0:33:59.160 It's just like the thing that it's hard to explain 0:33:59.160 --> 0:34:01.440 about the US colony to some people where they don't 0:34:02.120 --> 0:34:04.360 get how it can be owned but not in but 0:34:04.400 --> 0:34:08.719 also part of Yeah. Meanwhile, the second legacy is that 0:34:08.800 --> 0:34:13.399 the quest for guano codified US overseas expansion is being 0:34:13.400 --> 0:34:18.440 a quest of resource extraction. This kickstarted US imperialism past 0:34:18.520 --> 0:34:21.800 continental borders and showed how the US government would encourage 0:34:21.800 --> 0:34:25.640 its industries to occupy and integrate themselves overseas in order 0:34:25.680 --> 0:34:29.680 to protect interest at home. Right, these companies went off 0:34:29.800 --> 0:34:32.799 to farm, to mine guano, and then to send it 0:34:32.840 --> 0:34:35.960 back home. We've seen this play out lots of times 0:34:36.040 --> 0:34:39.840 throughout American history, like during the so called Banana Wars, 0:34:39.880 --> 0:34:43.280 for out Latin America, as well as the continued quest 0:34:43.320 --> 0:34:45.960 for oil that's played out throughout the twentieth and twenty 0:34:46.000 --> 0:34:50.680 first century. And the third legacy is that these Guano islands, 0:34:50.800 --> 0:34:54.080 once rich in natural resources, are now part of one 0:34:54.120 --> 0:34:59.000 of the US's biggest exports military bases. Through the bases, 0:34:59.040 --> 0:35:01.759 the US's establ was there, alongside the ones in the 0:35:01.760 --> 0:35:04.880 inhabited colonies. The US has been able to project power 0:35:05.000 --> 0:35:08.920 outside of its continental borders because these tiny islands served 0:35:09.000 --> 0:35:12.880 or continued to serve as strategic military footholds in their 0:35:12.920 --> 0:35:17.439 respective regions. This was particularly evident during World War Two, 0:35:17.840 --> 0:35:21.239 where there was a wave of military expansion by the 0:35:21.320 --> 0:35:23.600 United States throughout the world, but it remains true to 0:35:23.640 --> 0:35:24.080 this day. 0:35:24.400 --> 0:35:26.320 During World War Two, they called some of those islands 0:35:26.320 --> 0:35:29.480 in the Pacific unsinkable aircraft carriers was the way they 0:35:29.480 --> 0:35:32.520 would refer to it. Like still actually, in many of 0:35:32.560 --> 0:35:36.360 those islands there was a serious problem with unexploded ordnance, 0:35:37.120 --> 0:35:40.080 which I think gets to the difference between like being 0:35:40.080 --> 0:35:41.640 a place where the US can put its military and 0:35:41.640 --> 0:35:43.640 being a place inside the US. Right, the US would 0:35:43.680 --> 0:35:49.000 not have left that many bombs and mines inside Ohio. 0:35:50.200 --> 0:35:53.440 There are some areas with Uxo, including in San Diego, 0:35:53.480 --> 0:35:55.200 but like to know any of this extent. 0:35:55.040 --> 0:35:58.879 Right, yeah, absolutely right. In the actually to skip ahead 0:35:58.880 --> 0:36:00.960 a little bit, Puerto Rico in World War two is 0:36:01.000 --> 0:36:03.719 called the Gibraltar of the Caribbean because of how the 0:36:03.840 --> 0:36:07.840 US operated kind of its force projection in the region. 0:36:07.960 --> 0:36:10.759 And actually that now that you mentioned the mines, there 0:36:10.840 --> 0:36:13.839 is an island municipality off the eastern coast of Puerto 0:36:13.920 --> 0:36:17.600 Rico called bi I guess that the US used as 0:36:17.640 --> 0:36:21.120 like a bombing range for for many years, and there's 0:36:21.200 --> 0:36:25.040 still quite a few mines scattered throughout the island. I 0:36:25.080 --> 0:36:28.439 believe I should have included this, but there's about two 0:36:28.440 --> 0:36:31.800 thirds of the island municipality are still you still can't 0:36:31.840 --> 0:36:34.080 walk on them because of the unexploded ordinance. 0:36:34.280 --> 0:36:34.440 Right. 0:36:34.960 --> 0:36:38.120 Yeah, It's like Kuai Schulin when you see like a 0:36:38.160 --> 0:36:40.920 missile has been tested normally it's from VanderBurg Space Force 0:36:40.960 --> 0:36:44.320 space right up in central California. That's where it's going, 0:36:44.680 --> 0:36:47.400 Like Kwai, She's where quite in a toll is a 0:36:47.440 --> 0:36:49.319 toll in the Marshal Lilands where the United States has 0:36:49.320 --> 0:36:52.120 a large base, and like that, that is where that 0:36:52.120 --> 0:36:55.319 missile is headed. Still we still do this, right, we 0:36:55.360 --> 0:36:58.480 still test those and we of course testing nuclear weapons 0:36:58.520 --> 0:37:01.200 inside the United States as well, but very quickly when 0:37:01.239 --> 0:37:04.320 we realized that those things were devastating and the land 0:37:04.400 --> 0:37:07.759 never recovers, we started to do that on land which 0:37:07.840 --> 0:37:10.279 the United States controls. But there's not consider to be 0:37:10.320 --> 0:37:13.440 of the same value as land in a conticuous low 0:37:13.560 --> 0:37:14.000 forty eight. 0:37:14.560 --> 0:37:18.400 Absolutely no vichs and it's a sister island municipality. Colba 0:37:18.560 --> 0:37:22.239 were used as bombing ranges for years. Vicus has a 0:37:22.360 --> 0:37:25.439 very high cancer rate compared to the rest of Puerto Rico. 0:37:26.520 --> 0:37:29.960 When I say decades that the Navy quote unquote left 0:37:30.120 --> 0:37:33.080 viks in two thousand and three, right, that is still 0:37:33.120 --> 0:37:37.160 like within living memory for a lot of people, right. 0:37:37.239 --> 0:37:40.240 You know, the same people that protested the Navy's involvement 0:37:40.280 --> 0:37:44.360 there are still alive in kicking today and several different 0:37:44.400 --> 0:37:48.120 activist causes. Right. And they only left because they accidentally 0:37:48.200 --> 0:37:52.480 killed a security guard that kind of incited the protests 0:37:52.520 --> 0:37:54.279 that we're already going on, but that kind of kicked 0:37:54.280 --> 0:37:56.359 it in the high gear. Actually, I don't know if 0:37:56.360 --> 0:37:59.359 Americans know this, but like RFK for a very long 0:37:59.400 --> 0:38:02.480 time was kind of a local Puerto Rican folk hero 0:38:02.600 --> 0:38:06.120 because he'd participated in the anti navy protests here. Then 0:38:06.160 --> 0:38:08.520 he became what he is today, although I guess he 0:38:08.600 --> 0:38:09.719 might have always been that, but. 0:38:10.600 --> 0:38:12.640 Yeah, I did not know that he has been on 0:38:12.680 --> 0:38:15.200 a journey throughout throughout his life. I think it's fair 0:38:15.239 --> 0:38:18.680 to say, but yeah, there were people who doubted the 0:38:18.760 --> 0:38:22.160 state parentheses good who have turned into people who doubt 0:38:22.560 --> 0:38:28.279 the state parentheses back. And I think he is one 0:38:28.280 --> 0:38:30.120 of those people. I was just thinking too about like 0:38:30.719 --> 0:38:33.160 this same time period is like the same time period 0:38:33.160 --> 0:38:35.040 as a cannon air strike. Are you familiar with the 0:38:35.120 --> 0:38:35.920 cannon air strike? 0:38:36.120 --> 0:38:36.840 Not at all. 0:38:37.360 --> 0:38:41.920 It's where miners in Mexico go on strike right there 0:38:41.920 --> 0:38:47.439 in Sonora, and the owner of the mine, whose name 0:38:47.480 --> 0:38:50.600 I think was Green, it's just in the Porfyliato, right, 0:38:50.640 --> 0:38:54.040 So Porfylio the Earth is the president of Mexico. And 0:38:54.080 --> 0:38:57.799 it's like very pro American investment. And this is just 0:38:57.840 --> 0:39:01.120 before the outbreak of the Mexican Revolution, and it's a 0:39:01.160 --> 0:39:06.080 time when like the Americans are just like ruthlessly investing 0:39:06.120 --> 0:39:10.920 in Mexico is far too guy, but they're exploiting Mexican resources, 0:39:11.000 --> 0:39:14.160 right and then taking those for American profit. There was 0:39:14.200 --> 0:39:16.960 a I think it's where the cannon there consolidated copper company. 0:39:17.760 --> 0:39:23.719 The workers there go on strike, and this guy, I 0:39:23.800 --> 0:39:27.320 think he's called mister Green or Colonel Green maybe, basically 0:39:27.320 --> 0:39:29.879 starts Radioto America being like, the workers are on strike, 0:39:29.920 --> 0:39:31.799 they're gonna kill me, They're gonna kill everyone. And then 0:39:31.840 --> 0:39:33.880 they're they're not being particularly violent. 0:39:33.960 --> 0:39:34.080 Right. 0:39:34.120 --> 0:39:37.040 A fire starts in the strike, but it's not the workers, 0:39:37.120 --> 0:39:38.840 it is the guards who. 0:39:38.680 --> 0:39:41.400 Are armed as often as the case. 0:39:42.040 --> 0:39:47.759 Yeah, and the fucking Arizona Rangers enter from Arizona, and 0:39:47.840 --> 0:39:53.560 I believe they're deputized on entering Mexico to intervene in 0:39:53.600 --> 0:39:57.000 this strike, right, Like the US is like Mexico is 0:39:57.000 --> 0:40:00.799 an independent country, but that's our mind, guys, like we'll 0:40:00.840 --> 0:40:05.040 be coming in here, like along with man. The guy's 0:40:05.120 --> 0:40:08.680 name Emilio something. He was like a Russian emigrat who 0:40:08.680 --> 0:40:12.960 became like an enforcer for football videodias in Mexico. But 0:40:13.120 --> 0:40:15.239 it just reminds me of the same thing, like the 0:40:15.320 --> 0:40:19.160 United States literally sending its colps into like invading a country. 0:40:19.200 --> 0:40:22.160 To protects its US business interests. 0:40:21.840 --> 0:40:24.360 Right right, Like don't fuck with our mind. 0:40:25.600 --> 0:40:29.880 In some ways right. This was preceded or preempted by 0:40:30.239 --> 0:40:33.520 the US claims on the Guano Islands, which of course 0:40:33.600 --> 0:40:36.879 were uninhabited, so it made it easy for the US 0:40:36.920 --> 0:40:39.919 to take control and establish them as mining colonies through 0:40:39.960 --> 0:40:45.960 its various industry companies. However, in modern times, resource mining 0:40:46.040 --> 0:40:50.720 has defined the US's imperialist ambitions. While it's much harder 0:40:50.719 --> 0:40:54.040 to establish dominion over places that people live in permanently, 0:40:54.440 --> 0:40:57.640 that hasn't stopped the country from exerting its influence through 0:40:57.840 --> 0:41:00.879 gunboat and dollar diplomacy. In place is like a rock 0:41:01.000 --> 0:41:04.520 in Venezuela, where it controls a significant part of their 0:41:04.680 --> 0:41:08.080 oil revenues. So this is the end of the first episode, 0:41:08.440 --> 0:41:10.040 but I'm going to talk a lot more about this 0:41:10.080 --> 0:41:12.920 phenomenon in the next episode, where we dive into how 0:41:12.960 --> 0:41:16.960 the US occupies and takes over the inhabited colonies for 0:41:17.160 --> 0:41:20.480 war and purchase. Any closing fonts, James. 0:41:21.000 --> 0:41:23.880 Statehood is no independents, and I'm sure we got to 0:41:23.880 --> 0:41:27.160 touch on this, but I thought that was great. I 0:41:27.239 --> 0:41:28.080 enjoyed that very much. 0:41:28.080 --> 0:41:29.480 Thank you, thank you for being a guest. 0:41:43.800 --> 0:41:47.959 Hello, and welcome to it could happen here. My name's 0:41:48.040 --> 0:41:50.880 Kim Kelly, and I'll be your host for this morning 0:41:51.000 --> 0:41:55.279 or evening or afternoon. I don't know your schedule. Little 0:41:55.280 --> 0:41:58.839 about me, I'm a freelance journalist based in Philly, got 0:41:58.840 --> 0:42:02.319 third generation Union member, an author of the books Fight 0:42:02.440 --> 0:42:05.440 Like Hell, The Untold History of American Labor and his 0:42:05.600 --> 0:42:09.400 Young Reader's edition, Fight to Win Heroes of American Labor. 0:42:10.360 --> 0:42:12.600 Labor in History is obviously a passion of mine, but 0:42:12.920 --> 0:42:15.200 it's also my job to keep up with current worker 0:42:15.280 --> 0:42:19.160 struggles here in the US and abroad. Our pal Sophie, 0:42:19.239 --> 0:42:23.120 Robert James, everybody else have kindly given me the opportunity 0:42:23.120 --> 0:42:26.480 here to share some recent labor stories you might have missed, 0:42:27.120 --> 0:42:29.680 and adding a little historical context here and there to 0:42:29.760 --> 0:42:34.520 explain why exactly they're so important. All that being said, 0:42:34.840 --> 0:42:38.919 let's talk about silica. There are a lot of things 0:42:38.960 --> 0:42:41.319 out there that can kill you at work, but silica, 0:42:41.640 --> 0:42:46.480 specifically respirable crystalline silica, really goes above and beyond the 0:42:46.480 --> 0:42:50.479 call of duty. What is silica, you might ask, Well, 0:42:51.120 --> 0:42:54.000 it's a chemical compound made up of silicon and oxygen 0:42:54.120 --> 0:42:58.160 that is extremely common. Its government name is silicon dioxide. 0:42:58.400 --> 0:43:01.160 There's actually the second most above an element on Earth 0:43:01.440 --> 0:43:06.200 after oxygen doesn't sound so bad, right, Well, it all 0:43:06.200 --> 0:43:09.239 comes down to how you encounter it. If you eat 0:43:09.239 --> 0:43:12.680 it in the form of dietary silica, that's fine. You 0:43:12.680 --> 0:43:15.400 can find it in leafy greens, oats, brown rice is 0:43:15.440 --> 0:43:18.160 actually pretty good for you. But and this is a 0:43:18.160 --> 0:43:22.440 big butt, if you breathe in silica dust, you're pretty 0:43:22.480 --> 0:43:22.960 much fucked. 0:43:23.719 --> 0:43:23.919 See. 0:43:23.960 --> 0:43:28.960 Silica dust is extremely harmful, toxic, dangerous, no good. If 0:43:29.000 --> 0:43:32.040 it gets into your lungs, it causes swelling and inflammation, 0:43:32.520 --> 0:43:35.600 which then turns into hard scar tissue, which makes it 0:43:35.640 --> 0:43:39.080 really hard to breathe and least even bigger problems like 0:43:39.239 --> 0:43:46.040 lung cancer, tuberculosis, silicosis, COPD, kidney disease, and one of 0:43:46.080 --> 0:43:51.360 the scariest occupational diseases in American history coal workers numoconiosis, 0:43:52.239 --> 0:43:55.720 which you might know better as black long see silica, 0:43:55.840 --> 0:43:58.879 is ten times more toxic than coal dust and has 0:43:58.920 --> 0:44:01.960 been fueling a quiet epidemic and the Appalachian coal fields 0:44:01.960 --> 0:44:05.800 for years now. A new report from the National Institute 0:44:05.800 --> 0:44:09.600 for Occupational Safety and Health reveals that black lung rates 0:44:09.680 --> 0:44:13.560 are higher than they've been in fifty years, a disease 0:44:13.600 --> 0:44:17.200 that most people assume has been eradicated, has come roaring back, 0:44:17.800 --> 0:44:21.000 and now one in three miners with twenty five or 0:44:21.040 --> 0:44:24.560 more years experience in the mines has this brutal, fatal, 0:44:24.800 --> 0:44:29.000 incurable disease. There's no longer an old man's disease either. 0:44:29.640 --> 0:44:32.040 Let's do the math real quick. So if a worker 0:44:32.080 --> 0:44:34.680 goes underground when they're eighteen nineteen, you know, right out 0:44:34.719 --> 0:44:36.759 of high school, get their first big job, go down 0:44:36.800 --> 0:44:41.680 the mines. Twenty five years later, they've barely hit their forties. 0:44:42.360 --> 0:44:45.799 These are not old dudes. This is not the end 0:44:45.800 --> 0:44:50.040 of the line. Like the stereotype of the elderly coal 0:44:50.040 --> 0:44:54.000 miner with the oxygen tank. These people in their late twenties, 0:44:54.040 --> 0:44:58.319 their thirties, their forties. It's horrifying. These workers have so 0:44:58.440 --> 0:45:01.560 much more life to live, but their futures are being 0:45:01.600 --> 0:45:06.400 stolen from them by silica and more specifically, the mine 0:45:06.440 --> 0:45:10.080 operators who refuse to follow the proper safety protocols and 0:45:10.120 --> 0:45:14.320 engineering controls needed to protect them, and the Trunk administration's 0:45:14.320 --> 0:45:18.120 refusal to do deadly squat to make them. Actually, this 0:45:18.160 --> 0:45:22.040 administration is actively making the problem worse. You see, after 0:45:22.120 --> 0:45:24.840 decades of work from coal miners and their allies, the 0:45:24.880 --> 0:45:28.239 Department of Labor under Biden was poised to enact a 0:45:28.280 --> 0:45:31.280 new silica rule that would have the amount of deadly 0:45:31.360 --> 0:45:34.520 dust that miners would be exposed to. Finally, it took 0:45:34.680 --> 0:45:37.239 decades to get to this point, and this rule was 0:45:37.280 --> 0:45:39.439 supposed to go in defect in April twenty twenty five. 0:45:40.200 --> 0:45:44.160 A guess who was president then for all Trumps squawking 0:45:44.200 --> 0:45:47.399 about beautiful clean coal and American workers and blah lah, 0:45:48.040 --> 0:45:50.480 he and the scrubs who work for him are actively 0:45:50.680 --> 0:45:54.360 killing coal miners to protect their coal barren buddy's bottom line. 0:45:55.040 --> 0:45:57.640 And silica isn't just wreaking havoc and Appalachia and his 0:45:57.760 --> 0:46:01.439 coal mines. It's a huge problem in the construction industry too, 0:46:02.080 --> 0:46:06.879 specifically among stone masons and countertop fabricators. See, silica isn't 0:46:06.920 --> 0:46:09.359 just floating around like Lucy Goosey. It's not like you're 0:46:09.360 --> 0:46:10.960 not going to breathe it and walking down the street. 0:46:11.520 --> 0:46:15.080 You got to dig it out of rocks like granite, marble, quartz. 0:46:15.920 --> 0:46:19.280 Coal miners diate out of the earth. For stone masons 0:46:19.280 --> 0:46:22.760 and countertop fabricators, they release the dust when they're cutting 0:46:22.840 --> 0:46:28.080 and finishing slabs of stone. Artificial Stone aka manufacturer Quartz 0:46:28.719 --> 0:46:32.759 isn't especially popular material for that kitchen makeover, and it 0:46:32.880 --> 0:46:36.680 is chok full of silica. That's right, you're a shining 0:46:36.760 --> 0:46:40.160 new kitchen counter. It might have killed someone already, sorry. 0:46:41.239 --> 0:46:44.759 California is currently grappling with a silicosis epidemic that is 0:46:44.800 --> 0:46:48.439 sickened over five hundred workers, fifty of them and needed 0:46:48.520 --> 0:46:52.279 lung transplants, and as of today, thirty two of them 0:46:52.280 --> 0:46:56.000 have died. These are not old men either. Their median 0:46:56.040 --> 0:46:59.920 age is forty six. In almost every case in California 0:47:00.239 --> 0:47:04.439 has occurred among Mexican and Central American immigrant workers, many 0:47:04.480 --> 0:47:07.440 of them have died within a few years of their diagnosis. 0:47:07.760 --> 0:47:11.120 It is a fucking nightmare. And like black Lung and Appalachia, 0:47:11.640 --> 0:47:16.319 it is completely preventable when workers' health and safety is 0:47:16.360 --> 0:47:20.720 taken into account and existing regulations are followed. When they aren't, 0:47:21.239 --> 0:47:24.640 people die. Regulations are there for a reason, like it's 0:47:24.680 --> 0:47:28.399 not just for funzies, Like it matters, man. It makes 0:47:28.400 --> 0:47:31.640 me so mad. But with all that in mine, let's 0:47:31.640 --> 0:47:34.440 wrap up this silica sponsored portion of our program with 0:47:34.480 --> 0:47:38.120 a little sweet treat from Starbucks. The coffee giant has 0:47:38.160 --> 0:47:40.879 gone all in on blended and frozen drinks. You've seen 0:47:40.920 --> 0:47:43.600 them on Instagram TikTok. They're very pretty, they look very 0:47:43.680 --> 0:47:46.680 radioactive in like a fun way. And they've recently started 0:47:46.719 --> 0:47:51.279 using a new blending powder that contains wait for it, 0:47:51.440 --> 0:47:56.240 silicon dioxide. Our old friend. Now, this silica is food 0:47:56.280 --> 0:47:59.960 grade FDA proved and it's safe to ingest. Caveat cot, 0:48:00.040 --> 0:48:03.560 big caveat. The trouble is that the workers who are 0:48:03.600 --> 0:48:06.719 required to use this blending powder in the drinks they're 0:48:06.719 --> 0:48:09.640 making for you are being exposed to it as they 0:48:09.680 --> 0:48:14.120 mix up these little treats. That's not good. Members of 0:48:14.160 --> 0:48:17.279 the Starbucks Workers United union have raised the alarm over 0:48:17.320 --> 0:48:21.319 this and collected testimonies from hundreds of Starbucks workers who 0:48:21.400 --> 0:48:24.200 started to suffer adverse health effects as soon as the 0:48:24.200 --> 0:48:27.359 new blending powders showed up in their stores. As one 0:48:27.400 --> 0:48:31.320 worker explained on the union's Instagram, you inhale those powders 0:48:31.360 --> 0:48:36.239 every time you scoop them. Workers report experiencing rashes, headaches, 0:48:36.360 --> 0:48:41.839 coughing fits, nausea, throat irritation, swelling, they had trouble breathing, and, 0:48:41.880 --> 0:48:45.080 as one of them said, this powder is literally unavoidable 0:48:45.560 --> 0:48:49.000 now Given what we've learned about silica today, you might 0:48:49.040 --> 0:48:52.200 be feeling a little nervous for those Starbucks workers. Some 0:48:52.239 --> 0:48:55.879 of those symptoms might sound a little familiar. Doesn't sound good. 0:48:56.160 --> 0:48:58.760 We don't like silica in things. We don't want silica 0:48:58.840 --> 0:49:02.920 anybody's lungs. And you'd think that after said workers alerted 0:49:02.920 --> 0:49:07.040 their company to this issue, Starbucks management would have swiftly 0:49:07.120 --> 0:49:10.560 removed this potentially dangerous substance from their stores and stopped 0:49:10.640 --> 0:49:14.520 requiring their employees to handle it. But as of now, anyway, 0:49:14.640 --> 0:49:17.680 you'd be wrong. So far, their response has been to 0:49:18.200 --> 0:49:22.759 blog about it. Here's the entirety of the response Starbucks 0:49:22.800 --> 0:49:26.920 posted on their official website and I quote. Their product 0:49:27.000 --> 0:49:29.640 used in our coffee houses is a blending powder which 0:49:29.680 --> 0:49:33.160 contains a small amount of food grade silica, an FDA 0:49:33.239 --> 0:49:37.120 approved ingredient commonly used in food products that helps ingredients 0:49:37.160 --> 0:49:41.680 mix consistently and supports a consistent beverage experience. It does 0:49:41.719 --> 0:49:45.920 not contain crystalline silica and is safe for use in food. 0:49:46.280 --> 0:49:49.600 We are committed to providing accurate information about our ingredients. 0:49:50.080 --> 0:49:52.439 To learn more about our commitment to high quality food 0:49:52.480 --> 0:49:57.319 and drinks, visit this link. End quote so, okay, that's 0:49:58.160 --> 0:50:01.279 not the problem though. You know it's food safe. We 0:50:01.320 --> 0:50:03.919 know it's fine once you get in your guts. It's 0:50:03.960 --> 0:50:07.160 the lungs we're worried about. We know it's food safe. 0:50:07.480 --> 0:50:11.200 The issue is that it's not worker safe. In a 0:50:11.239 --> 0:50:13.800 message the company sent out to its stores, it avoided 0:50:13.960 --> 0:50:18.239 the potential health issue entirely and instead simply told the 0:50:18.239 --> 0:50:22.120 workers to poor slower when handling it, putting the burden 0:50:22.160 --> 0:50:24.880 on them to protect their health instead of actually doing 0:50:24.920 --> 0:50:28.040 something about it. Classic case, you hate to see it. 0:50:28.800 --> 0:50:31.719 And for now, Starbucks work as United are continuing to 0:50:31.719 --> 0:50:34.880 push the company to address the actual issue here, and 0:50:34.920 --> 0:50:37.600 I bet they'd appreciate your support, So keep an eye 0:50:37.600 --> 0:50:40.080 out on their social media accounts to follow this story, 0:50:40.640 --> 0:50:43.479 let them know I sent you. And now a word 0:50:43.480 --> 0:50:59.080 from our sponsors. And now for some good news. Deborah Kapecia, 0:50:59.360 --> 0:51:02.720 a medical surgical nurse at Maine Medical Center in Portland, 0:51:03.360 --> 0:51:07.280 is back home after a terrifying encounter with ice. According 0:51:07.280 --> 0:51:11.080 to her union, the Maine State Nurses Association slash National 0:51:11.160 --> 0:51:16.320 Nurses Organizing Committee, an affiliate of National Nurses United. Kapisha 0:51:16.480 --> 0:51:19.920 was detained on July thirtieth while traveling through Boston Logan 0:51:20.000 --> 0:51:23.520 International Airport. The union and her fellow nurses at Maine 0:51:23.520 --> 0:51:27.080 Med immediately organized a rally that saw hundreds of nurses 0:51:27.080 --> 0:51:30.799 and allies mobilized and successfully blocked her transfer to a 0:51:30.800 --> 0:51:34.640 facility in Louisiana. Quote. We knew we had to take 0:51:34.680 --> 0:51:37.120 action first to stop her from being transferred out of 0:51:37.160 --> 0:51:40.240 New England while in custody, but also to demand her release. 0:51:40.920 --> 0:51:44.000 We're incredibly proud that nurses and the community came together 0:51:44.080 --> 0:51:46.759 in Portland to advocate for her, and now we need 0:51:46.760 --> 0:51:49.560 to figure out how to stop ICE. That's a quote 0:51:49.560 --> 0:51:52.480 from Kelly Brennan, a registered nurse at Main Med and 0:51:52.520 --> 0:51:55.680 a nurse leader with a union got done a press release. 0:51:56.680 --> 0:51:59.960 So Kapisha was born in Zambia and she's legally off 0:52:00.080 --> 0:52:02.480 their eyes to live and work in the United States. 0:52:02.600 --> 0:52:05.160 She's waiting for asylum case to be processed. I have 0:52:05.200 --> 0:52:07.440 no reason for ICE to snatch her up bother her 0:52:07.600 --> 0:52:10.359 any of that. Her fellow nurses have written more than 0:52:10.360 --> 0:52:13.279 one hundred letters of support, while the union continues to 0:52:13.320 --> 0:52:16.520 coordinate with her attorneys and her coworkers that made Med 0:52:16.760 --> 0:52:20.799 are demanding their employer sponsor her permanent residency. She has 0:52:20.840 --> 0:52:22.880 a bond hearing on August tenth, and I know we're 0:52:22.920 --> 0:52:24.200 all crossing fingers for her. 0:52:25.120 --> 0:52:25.279 You know. 0:52:25.320 --> 0:52:28.040 I don't know if this is common knowledge, but nurses unions, 0:52:28.440 --> 0:52:32.760 especially National Nurses United, go ridiculously hard for their members 0:52:32.760 --> 0:52:36.920 and their communities, like they are so tough and inn 0:52:36.960 --> 0:52:40.919 You has been on ICE's neck, calling it a illegitimate, 0:52:41.120 --> 0:52:46.280 violent paramilitary organization that must be abolished. They've been publicly 0:52:46.360 --> 0:52:51.040 mourning the ICE murder of Lorenzo Salgado Arajo and condemning 0:52:51.080 --> 0:52:54.400 the persecution of anti ICE activists in Minnesota and Texas. 0:52:54.960 --> 0:52:57.839 The union has been extremely outspoken on other human rights 0:52:57.840 --> 0:53:00.680 issues too that many other big unions have ignored or 0:53:00.719 --> 0:53:04.799 barely acknowledged because they're politically sensitive. Not really, if you 0:53:04.840 --> 0:53:07.279 have a heart in the brain. They've been calling out 0:53:07.320 --> 0:53:11.560 Israel for destroying medical warehouses and hospitals and gaza killing 0:53:11.600 --> 0:53:15.200 thousands of healthcare workers in Palestinian patients. And they just 0:53:15.200 --> 0:53:18.000 demanded an end to the US blockade of Cuba. This 0:53:18.160 --> 0:53:20.320 is just the last couple of months of press releases 0:53:20.520 --> 0:53:23.319 like they've been out here. And then You is also 0:53:23.360 --> 0:53:26.080 the biggest nurses union in the country, with more than 0:53:26.160 --> 0:53:29.560 two hundred and twenty five thousand members. They have a 0:53:29.560 --> 0:53:31.680 lot of power and they're not afraid to use it 0:53:31.719 --> 0:53:34.560 for good. Today they're trying to free a member from 0:53:34.560 --> 0:53:39.400 ISIS clutches. Tomorrow they may be striking for safety staffing levels, 0:53:39.520 --> 0:53:42.920 or organizing a new union in Louisiana, or holding your 0:53:42.920 --> 0:53:46.040 grandma's hand as she takes her last breath. Nurses really 0:53:46.080 --> 0:53:48.279 are the best of us, and I'm really glad they're 0:53:48.280 --> 0:53:52.680 on our side. So everyone say good luck to Deborah. Finally, 0:53:53.040 --> 0:53:55.680 I want to end today's episode with some very big news. 0:53:56.520 --> 0:54:00.239 As I'm sure you all know, it's now Black August Month. 0:54:00.280 --> 0:54:02.920 We dedicate each year to honoring the memory of fallen 0:54:02.960 --> 0:54:06.799 black freedom fighters and political prisoners. It's a tradition that 0:54:06.880 --> 0:54:10.560 began in nineteen seventy nine after the assassination of George Jackson, 0:54:10.920 --> 0:54:14.640 a Black panther and black liberation activist. With that memory 0:54:14.680 --> 0:54:18.480 and mind, Jailhouse Lawyers Speak, a collective of formerly and 0:54:18.520 --> 0:54:22.040 currently incarcerated workers around the country have just gone public 0:54:22.120 --> 0:54:25.080 with their plans for a big nationwide prison strike in 0:54:25.120 --> 0:54:28.640 twenty twenty seven, and they're calling for allies and comrades 0:54:28.680 --> 0:54:32.480 to support and spread the word. On August second, they 0:54:32.520 --> 0:54:35.719 announced that prisoners will hold a national prisoner's human rights 0:54:35.719 --> 0:54:39.640 strike from May one, the International Workers Day, through June 0:54:39.719 --> 0:54:44.200 nineteenth June tenth, twenty twenty seven, uniting the fight to 0:54:44.200 --> 0:54:47.600 and legalized slavery with the struggles to restore voting rights 0:54:47.600 --> 0:54:51.040 to the prison class. They shared three core demands, which 0:54:51.080 --> 0:54:55.320 I'll read to you now. They also maintain ten national 0:54:55.320 --> 0:54:58.040 demands on their website that have a bigger program going on, 0:54:58.120 --> 0:55:02.000 but this specific campaign is focusing on these three things. 0:55:02.520 --> 0:55:07.239 One and legalized slavery repeal. The exception clause is a 0:55:07.280 --> 0:55:13.920 Thirteenth Amendment. Two restore voting rights repeal exception clauses, including 0:55:13.960 --> 0:55:17.319 Section two of the fourteenth Amendment that strip voting rights 0:55:17.360 --> 0:55:22.960 from confined citizens, pre trial detainees, and former felons. Three 0:55:23.360 --> 0:55:27.719 free all the political prisoners in US prisons. So they've 0:55:27.760 --> 0:55:29.759 got a lot of work ahead of them. It all 0:55:29.800 --> 0:55:32.520 sounds very reasonable to me, but unfortunately I'm not in charge. 0:55:33.280 --> 0:55:35.360 You know, this isn't the first time the JLS and 0:55:35.400 --> 0:55:39.200 their affiliated prisoner led organizations have raised these demands, nor 0:55:39.280 --> 0:55:40.880 is it the first time they put their bodies on 0:55:40.920 --> 0:55:44.320 the line for them. There is a long, long history 0:55:44.360 --> 0:55:47.680 of resistance behind the walls of the American prison industrial complex. 0:55:48.200 --> 0:55:50.920 I devoted a whole chapter to in my book, and 0:55:51.040 --> 0:55:55.040 groups like JLS, the Free Alabama Movement, and the Incarcerated 0:55:55.040 --> 0:55:58.200 Workers Organizing Committee have done an incredible amount of work 0:55:58.200 --> 0:56:00.960 over the years keeping the spirit of hope and rebellion 0:56:01.000 --> 0:56:06.400 alive and organizing these huge nationwide actions under nearly impossible circumstances. 0:56:06.880 --> 0:56:08.839 Just because you haven't heard about them doesn't mean they're 0:56:08.880 --> 0:56:11.879 not happening. There is so much organizing happening in sign 0:56:11.920 --> 0:56:16.319 prison in the US, it's just difficult to report on 0:56:16.560 --> 0:56:19.319 unless you have contacts and you care enough to do 0:56:19.360 --> 0:56:21.759 a little bit of digging, which I guess not that 0:56:21.840 --> 0:56:26.400 many mainstream reporters do, but fuck them now. The largest 0:56:26.400 --> 0:56:29.239 prison strike in modern US history is said to have 0:56:29.239 --> 0:56:32.799 been the twenty ten Georgia prison strike, wherein prisoners in 0:56:32.880 --> 0:56:35.960 seven facilities across the state one on strike for six days. 0:56:36.760 --> 0:56:40.239 Between twenty eleven and twenty thirteen, thousands of prisoners in 0:56:40.280 --> 0:56:43.480 California when our hunger strikes to protest the dire conditions 0:56:43.480 --> 0:56:47.400 in which they're held. Since then, we've seen large scale, 0:56:47.560 --> 0:56:51.360 coordinated prison labor strikes in twenty seventeen, twenty eighteen, and 0:56:51.440 --> 0:56:55.759 perhaps most notably twenty sixteen, which commemorated the forty fifth 0:56:55.760 --> 0:56:59.480 anniversary of the Attica prison Uprising, which itself bears a 0:56:59.560 --> 0:57:03.040 historical precedent to ancient Rome, when in about one hundred 0:57:03.080 --> 0:57:06.279 and thirty five BC, just after the First Servile War, 0:57:06.840 --> 0:57:10.640 a thousand slaves let a bloody revolt in Attica, a 0:57:10.719 --> 0:57:14.040 region of what is now Greece. There really is nothing 0:57:14.080 --> 0:57:16.320 new under the sun, at least when it comes to 0:57:16.360 --> 0:57:19.760 the car sooral system and human enslavement, and the twenty 0:57:19.800 --> 0:57:23.680 twenty seven prison strike makes the connection explicit with its slogan, 0:57:24.400 --> 0:57:28.840 from May Day to Juneteenth, we refuse to slave. Now, 0:57:28.920 --> 0:57:30.800 a prison strike may look a little different from what 0:57:30.840 --> 0:57:34.240 you're thinking. Strikers have to get very creative since they 0:57:34.240 --> 0:57:37.920 can't exactly walk out of their workplace. There won't be 0:57:37.960 --> 0:57:41.720 any picket lines or cool matching T shirts. And I'd 0:57:41.720 --> 0:57:45.280 be very pleasantly surprised if any elected officials or political 0:57:45.320 --> 0:57:48.440 hopefuls showed up to support these strikes. May It sure 0:57:48.440 --> 0:57:51.000 would be nice, given that one of the major goals 0:57:51.000 --> 0:57:53.959 of this action is to have these incarcerated workers voting 0:57:54.040 --> 0:57:56.960 rights restored. People in prison are a part of our 0:57:57.000 --> 0:58:00.760 society and always have been ripping their rights as well 0:58:00.760 --> 0:58:03.720 as their freedoms as a crime against their humanity, and 0:58:03.760 --> 0:58:06.959 this strike is another desperate cry for help from people 0:58:07.000 --> 0:58:10.240 who have been left behind and forgotten. A lot can 0:58:10.320 --> 0:58:13.040 happen in nine months, and a lot needs to happen 0:58:13.120 --> 0:58:16.480 to pull off an action of this magnitude. Prison strikes 0:58:16.480 --> 0:58:19.520 aren't easy. There's so many dangers and risks for the 0:58:19.560 --> 0:58:24.360 people that participate, so much repressions, so many repercussions. It's 0:58:24.400 --> 0:58:28.080 truly an incredibly difficult and brave thing to take part 0:58:28.120 --> 0:58:30.720 in a strike behind the walls, and they need support 0:58:30.760 --> 0:58:34.760 from people outside too. JLS is calling on supporters of 0:58:34.760 --> 0:58:38.360 the strike to get involved and support their resistance inside 0:58:38.440 --> 0:58:42.880 by sharing the strike statement widely, centering prisoner voices, and 0:58:42.960 --> 0:58:45.800 pressure in Congress and all those other fancy powerful people 0:58:45.920 --> 0:58:49.919 to heed their demands or at the absolute least show 0:58:49.960 --> 0:58:54.320 that they're listening. As JLS stated, the National Prisoner's Human 0:58:54.400 --> 0:58:57.520 Rights Strike is more than a strike. There's a commitment 0:58:57.600 --> 0:59:03.360 to building lasting institutions, banding legal knowledge, strengthening political education, 0:59:03.880 --> 0:59:08.040 and organizing inside and outside the walls until legalized slavery 0:59:08.160 --> 0:59:12.280 and the broader system of exploitation are abolished. So if 0:59:12.320 --> 0:59:15.120 you got some time, you got some skills and a 0:59:15.120 --> 0:59:18.720 desire to burn down the American Plantation, give a little whistle. 0:59:19.240 --> 0:59:21.400 JLUS is waiting for you, and they need all the 0:59:21.400 --> 0:59:24.560 help they can get. This has been a special labor 0:59:24.600 --> 0:59:27.920 episode of It Can Happen Here. I'm still Kim Kelly 0:59:28.080 --> 0:59:31.240 and it's been lovely talking with you. Until next time. 0:59:31.840 --> 0:59:35.000 Be good, do no harm, and take no shit. 0:59:46.840 --> 0:59:50.440 Welcome back to It Could Happen Here. I'm Garrison Davis. 0:59:51.040 --> 0:59:53.280 Today we have a very special episode because we are 0:59:53.440 --> 0:59:56.280 talking once again to Bridget Todd, who we've had on 0:59:56.400 --> 1:00:01.400 a few times. But Bridget has a new book, Love 1:00:01.560 --> 1:00:04.880 at First prompt to AI and the Future of Intimacy, 1:00:05.560 --> 1:00:08.760 and we will be discussing how AI companies are trying 1:00:08.800 --> 1:00:11.280 to sell you love and how that might have a 1:00:11.320 --> 1:00:16.240 few problems Beyond the sort of face conceit that I 1:00:16.280 --> 1:00:18.840 think you know everyone could pick up on, there might 1:00:18.880 --> 1:00:22.360 even be more problems underneath the underneath the hood. So 1:00:22.600 --> 1:00:23.720 thank you Bridgard for coming on. 1:00:24.160 --> 1:00:26.040 Thank you so much for having me. I'm thrilled to 1:00:26.120 --> 1:00:26.680 be back here. 1:00:27.040 --> 1:00:29.680 How did you first decide this is something that you 1:00:29.720 --> 1:00:33.040 want to, like dedicate months of your life to researching. 1:00:33.560 --> 1:00:35.520 Yeah, that's a great place to start. 1:00:35.800 --> 1:00:37.840 I think, like a lot of folks listening, I would 1:00:37.920 --> 1:00:41.480 hear these stories about individuals who would say things like 1:00:41.680 --> 1:00:44.320 I am in love with chat GPT or I am 1:00:44.360 --> 1:00:48.320 having some sort of intimate sexual relationship with an AI companion. 1:00:48.760 --> 1:00:51.440 And I can admit that my reaction to a lot 1:00:51.480 --> 1:00:54.640 of those those headlines where something is wrong with this person, 1:00:54.720 --> 1:00:58.840 this person is pathetic, or maybe this person is super lonely, 1:00:59.040 --> 1:01:02.600 super sad, they're putting themselves at great risk for harm. 1:01:02.920 --> 1:01:05.280 And you know, I once had this therapist who told 1:01:05.320 --> 1:01:09.640 me that judgment and curiosity could not coexist. And so 1:01:09.720 --> 1:01:13.000 I realized I was really treating these stories with such 1:01:13.320 --> 1:01:17.400 kind of knee jerk negative reaction and judgment. And then 1:01:17.480 --> 1:01:20.520 I heard Mark Zuckerberg on a podcast talking about how 1:01:20.840 --> 1:01:24.680 he thought in ten years time, while everybody, including everybody listening, 1:01:25.000 --> 1:01:28.360 was going to have AI friends AI companions. He said 1:01:28.400 --> 1:01:31.600 that most people don't feel like they have enough friends 1:01:31.600 --> 1:01:34.240 to have a nourishing social life, and that in the 1:01:34.280 --> 1:01:36.320 future it won't be a big deal. 1:01:36.120 --> 1:01:38.120 If all of us have AI companions. 1:01:38.200 --> 1:01:40.360 So what he didn't say is that it would be 1:01:40.440 --> 1:01:44.080 AI that he owns, operates, and profits from. But I 1:01:44.120 --> 1:01:47.520 got to thinking, you know, if Mark Zuckerberg and other 1:01:47.600 --> 1:01:51.960 tech leaders are designing futures involving technology where they believe 1:01:52.000 --> 1:01:54.720 this will be commonplace, whether the average person wants it 1:01:54.720 --> 1:01:56.760 to be or not, we should really be looking to 1:01:56.800 --> 1:01:59.600 the people who are already there to tell us what 1:01:59.640 --> 1:02:02.840 brought them to experiencing intimacy with AI and what the 1:02:02.960 --> 1:02:05.680 risks and ramifications might be. It's time to stop treating 1:02:05.680 --> 1:02:08.440 these people like pathetic freak shows and sort of listening 1:02:08.480 --> 1:02:10.520 to what they're actually saying, because it couldn't behove all 1:02:10.560 --> 1:02:12.000 of us to know where we could be headed. 1:02:12.360 --> 1:02:14.640 No, the freak show aspect, I think is as a 1:02:14.680 --> 1:02:18.720 real inhibitor towards actually understanding this problem, because I mean 1:02:19.040 --> 1:02:20.920 a lot of the first sort of like reports around 1:02:21.160 --> 1:02:23.160 this sort of thing, you know, like AI girlfriends, right, 1:02:23.680 --> 1:02:25.880 it has this sort of freak element, even even the 1:02:25.880 --> 1:02:28.720 way that we maybe talk about this on the show 1:02:29.080 --> 1:02:31.320 when we're like reporting at ces, you know, we walk 1:02:31.400 --> 1:02:35.160 through all these you know, ridiculous AI gadgets. You know, 1:02:35.480 --> 1:02:39.080 we saw like you know, like an AI sex doll essentially, 1:02:39.560 --> 1:02:42.720 you know, that has a very like low quality chat 1:02:42.720 --> 1:02:46.040 bought component that can't really you know, understand what you're 1:02:46.080 --> 1:02:49.360 saying very often. But I think it is a mistake 1:02:49.400 --> 1:02:51.360 to just assume that this tech will always stay in 1:02:51.400 --> 1:02:54.560 its kind of janky form. This stuff is rapidly advancing, 1:02:54.680 --> 1:02:56.560 it is, it is, it is going to get better, 1:02:56.600 --> 1:02:59.040 and just kind of denying that I think sort of 1:02:59.040 --> 1:03:02.440 pushes the problem, know down the road. Yeah, like, no, 1:03:02.480 --> 1:03:04.080 this is this, This is a real problem now and 1:03:04.120 --> 1:03:08.959 this requires like regulation and intense, intense like intervention right now. 1:03:09.360 --> 1:03:11.080 And just to kind of assuming that as it is 1:03:11.120 --> 1:03:14.040 all like all these like little niche things, only you know, 1:03:14.120 --> 1:03:16.439 crazy people are going to fall for this. The tech 1:03:16.520 --> 1:03:19.240 is bad. I think that that is I think overlooking 1:03:19.240 --> 1:03:22.280 what is legitimately like a you know, a society wide problem. 1:03:22.600 --> 1:03:25.160 Yes, I am so glad you said that, because one 1:03:25.160 --> 1:03:27.520 of the researchers that I interviewed for the audiobook Love 1:03:27.560 --> 1:03:30.280 at First Prompt is doctor Kate Devlin. She was really 1:03:30.280 --> 1:03:33.360 one of the first people to sort of take seriously 1:03:33.520 --> 1:03:37.480 the intersection of AI and robots and intimacy. And when 1:03:37.480 --> 1:03:40.080 she first started doing this, the place that she started 1:03:40.120 --> 1:03:42.520 looking was exactly the kind of thing that you saw 1:03:42.560 --> 1:03:47.360 at CES, right, these physical, life size sexpots that were 1:03:47.400 --> 1:03:50.680 also enabled with a kind of at the time low 1:03:50.840 --> 1:03:55.000 grade AI chatbot quality. Yeah, if you were around a 1:03:55.040 --> 1:03:57.880 few years ago, you probably saw so much breathless reporting 1:03:57.880 --> 1:03:59.960 that was like, Oh, men are going to be buying 1:04:00.080 --> 1:04:03.080 these sex dolls and they're gonna not need wives and 1:04:03.120 --> 1:04:05.880 girlfriends all that. Now that ended up sort of not 1:04:06.000 --> 1:04:09.960 being the case. People do buy those sex dolls, but 1:04:10.000 --> 1:04:13.040 they're really expensive, they're not really that practical, so they're 1:04:13.120 --> 1:04:16.360 really kind of a super niche thing. What did take 1:04:16.400 --> 1:04:18.840 off was the AI intimacy part of that. 1:04:18.840 --> 1:04:20.320 That's what doctor Devlin really saw. 1:04:20.360 --> 1:04:22.680 She said, the physical bop part of this is probably 1:04:22.720 --> 1:04:26.040 not gonna take off in mainstream ways. The AI companion 1:04:26.160 --> 1:04:30.400 AI intimacy chat bop feature of these physical dolls, that's 1:04:30.400 --> 1:04:33.200 what we're gonna see kind of become more mainstream. And 1:04:33.600 --> 1:04:35.800 you know, again, a lot of people listening probably think 1:04:35.840 --> 1:04:38.960 this sounds really niche, But I think Pew said that 1:04:39.400 --> 1:04:43.720 one in ten Americans already use AI for some form 1:04:43.720 --> 1:04:46.520 of intimacy. That's about as many Americans are left handed. Yeah, 1:04:46.520 --> 1:04:49.080 when you look at younger folks, folks under thirty, that 1:04:49.200 --> 1:04:52.440 number jumps to one in five who are already using 1:04:52.520 --> 1:04:54.520 AI for some sort of emotional support. 1:04:54.600 --> 1:04:57.280 So this idea that it's this niche thing. 1:04:57.760 --> 1:05:00.880 Only weirdos are doing it really isn't alive with what 1:05:00.920 --> 1:05:01.800 we're actually seeing. 1:05:02.520 --> 1:05:04.080 This is I think part of the problem with like, 1:05:04.160 --> 1:05:06.480 you know, living in your own little Internet silo, right 1:05:06.480 --> 1:05:09.080 because like you and your you know, blue sky friends 1:05:09.160 --> 1:05:12.560 might think that no one uses AI, knowing that you know, serious, 1:05:12.600 --> 1:05:14.760 knowing that I know would use AI. Right, It's there's 1:05:14.760 --> 1:05:17.680 this sort of like ideological like resistance to AI, and 1:05:17.720 --> 1:05:20.200 I think that is a very isolating. Look look at 1:05:20.240 --> 1:05:23.120 the world because while that might be true for you 1:05:23.160 --> 1:05:26.360 and your friends online or maybe your social circle, there 1:05:26.440 --> 1:05:30.000 is millions of people who go through the world every 1:05:30.080 --> 1:05:33.080 day who use these things and they just think of 1:05:33.080 --> 1:05:34.760 it as like an extension of the Internet, right, because 1:05:34.760 --> 1:05:36.040 that's what it is. For a lot of people, like 1:05:36.080 --> 1:05:37.760 that is what it is. They don't have these sorts 1:05:37.800 --> 1:05:41.760 of like moral frameworks around whether or not you should 1:05:41.840 --> 1:05:44.680 use claude, whether or not you should use chat GPT 1:05:44.760 --> 1:05:46.960 that I think you see among a certain strain of 1:05:47.000 --> 1:05:50.040 like you know, like liberal like leftist online. And the 1:05:50.080 --> 1:05:53.000 other thing that kind of that that silo produces is 1:05:53.000 --> 1:05:55.360 that it makes it so that I think it's hard 1:05:55.360 --> 1:05:59.080 to understand that for people using these tools every day 1:05:59.120 --> 1:06:00.800 the same way you might use search engine right, the 1:06:00.800 --> 1:06:03.439 same way you might use you know, a real friend 1:06:03.560 --> 1:06:06.240 like bounce. Ideas off of how much that sort of 1:06:06.280 --> 1:06:11.000 regular use can develop a sort of intimate component, the 1:06:11.400 --> 1:06:15.480 line between AI girlfriend and tool you talk to online 1:06:15.640 --> 1:06:17.400 might not be as like clear as what some people 1:06:17.480 --> 1:06:19.520 might first assume. I know, this is something that you 1:06:19.560 --> 1:06:21.120 discussed in the book. I mean, that's that's one of 1:06:21.160 --> 1:06:22.240 the things I think to be It's one of the 1:06:22.280 --> 1:06:24.800 most interesting is like how fuzzy this kind of barrier 1:06:24.840 --> 1:06:25.360 actually is. 1:06:25.680 --> 1:06:28.920 Oh yes, So even before I was deeply interested and 1:06:28.960 --> 1:06:31.360 sort of consumed on this topic, one of the most 1:06:31.520 --> 1:06:33.920 fascinating things that I witnessed and sort of saw with 1:06:33.960 --> 1:06:37.400 my own eyes was when CHATCHYPT changed models. 1:06:37.440 --> 1:06:39.680 You know, they had that four Oho model. Yeah, So 1:06:39.720 --> 1:06:40.520 do you remember that was the. 1:06:40.600 --> 1:06:44.240 Model that like people were freely developing these intimate connections 1:06:44.280 --> 1:06:46.240 with because it was so sick a fantic, it was 1:06:46.280 --> 1:06:49.320 so kind of human like quote unquote when you asked 1:06:49.320 --> 1:06:51.600 it a question, it wouldn't just say here's the answer. 1:06:51.640 --> 1:06:55.000 It would be like, dear, you're so perceptive for even 1:06:55.200 --> 1:06:57.040 asking such a smart question. 1:06:57.240 --> 1:06:57.560 Yeah. 1:06:57.600 --> 1:07:01.760 And so what really deeply fascinated me was that when 1:07:01.840 --> 1:07:05.200 open ai switched that model to make it less sathantic, 1:07:05.320 --> 1:07:09.480 less sort of glazing, less complimentary, people who did not 1:07:09.720 --> 1:07:12.200 report that they were having any kind of intimate connection 1:07:12.320 --> 1:07:14.000 with AI, who would not have said I have an 1:07:14.040 --> 1:07:16.360 AI girlfriend or AI companion, yeah, who were just using 1:07:16.360 --> 1:07:19.040 it exactly as you described, like a search engine, those 1:07:19.120 --> 1:07:23.120 same people got online and expressed something like grief. 1:07:23.200 --> 1:07:23.280 No. 1:07:23.360 --> 1:07:24.320 Absolutely, yeah. 1:07:24.520 --> 1:07:27.320 I remember reading someone on auto rereddit form saying it 1:07:27.360 --> 1:07:32.000 feels as if my friendly cheerleader in my pocket got 1:07:32.040 --> 1:07:35.680 replaced overnight with a terse, overworked secretary. And so I 1:07:35.720 --> 1:07:39.080 think you're exactly right that our brains are designed to 1:07:40.080 --> 1:07:44.560 project human qualities and human intimacy onto things that we 1:07:44.640 --> 1:07:47.720 know are logically not human. And it really the way 1:07:47.720 --> 1:07:50.439 that these things are designed really easily blurs that line 1:07:50.480 --> 1:07:51.160 for folks. 1:07:51.480 --> 1:07:53.400 I mean, it's trying to, you know, be as human 1:07:53.440 --> 1:07:55.760 as as possible for its own for its own reason, 1:07:55.800 --> 1:07:57.680 so that people use it more so that it's not 1:07:58.720 --> 1:08:01.680 you know, a cold EMOTIONALLESSI that is maybe a little 1:08:01.680 --> 1:08:04.520 bit hostile to the user. Obviously they don't want that, 1:08:04.720 --> 1:08:08.040 so yeah, they want to be approachable. But I think 1:08:08.080 --> 1:08:10.439 the specific thing you're talking about the switching from from 1:08:10.480 --> 1:08:13.960 one GPT model to the other, from this like overly 1:08:14.120 --> 1:08:18.479 like you know, praising kind of like it just almost 1:08:18.680 --> 1:08:22.080 almost annoyingly so model towards something that is a little 1:08:22.080 --> 1:08:24.760 bit more cold. It produce these reactions online with the 1:08:24.880 --> 1:08:28.080 people that are like basically acting like a friend died 1:08:28.560 --> 1:08:30.160 and like that was essentially what it was. 1:08:30.240 --> 1:08:30.360 Right. 1:08:30.400 --> 1:08:33.040 Imagine if you were talking to you know, a real 1:08:33.080 --> 1:08:37.080 person online for like two years and then suddenly they 1:08:37.120 --> 1:08:39.800 stopped or suddenly they had a complete personality change, and 1:08:39.840 --> 1:08:41.920 it's like like there was no way to talk to 1:08:42.000 --> 1:08:44.880 that other person again. That is basically the equivalent is 1:08:44.960 --> 1:08:47.360 like what happened to a lot of people. 1:08:48.080 --> 1:08:50.320 Yeah, I think it's easy to make fun of that 1:08:50.600 --> 1:08:54.719 or to other people who report this, but I don't 1:08:54.760 --> 1:08:59.040 think that it's really right to discount the way that 1:08:59.120 --> 1:09:03.400 online connects really do make people feel and really feel 1:09:03.400 --> 1:09:05.720 like they are validating and filling a. 1:09:05.760 --> 1:09:06.679 Need that people have. 1:09:06.800 --> 1:09:08.880 You know, it's easy to say, oh, it's just an 1:09:08.880 --> 1:09:12.080 online friend or an online community or an AI bot. 1:09:12.560 --> 1:09:15.639 I've talked to people who said, oh, this video game 1:09:15.640 --> 1:09:18.960 that I was obsessed with, it's gone, and I you know, 1:09:19.000 --> 1:09:21.000 this has filled my life for two years. 1:09:21.120 --> 1:09:35.000 Yeah, that's real. Do you want to get into some 1:09:35.040 --> 1:09:37.559 of the sort of problems beneath the surface of this, 1:09:38.240 --> 1:09:42.760 beyond the sort of you know, maybe socially alienating aspects, 1:09:43.080 --> 1:09:45.519 the issues of people having to turn towards these things 1:09:45.560 --> 1:09:49.280 to kind of have some connection, but actually now kind 1:09:49.280 --> 1:09:52.400 of discuss the motivations of the companies behind these products 1:09:52.400 --> 1:09:55.040 and like why they are designing them this way, and 1:09:55.160 --> 1:09:58.400 the sort of risks inherent towards having these sorts of 1:09:58.439 --> 1:10:01.600 tools be run by an owned by companies with like 1:10:01.640 --> 1:10:02.599 for profit sideps. 1:10:02.880 --> 1:10:04.400 I mean, you really said it. 1:10:04.520 --> 1:10:07.479 I think that we are spending far too much time 1:10:07.600 --> 1:10:11.639 looking at individual users and sort of moralizing about what 1:10:11.760 --> 1:10:14.960 brings individual people to this kind of connection with AI. 1:10:15.320 --> 1:10:17.200 It kind of goes back to what you were saying about. 1:10:17.560 --> 1:10:20.960 You know, I'm not a big AI person myself, but 1:10:21.360 --> 1:10:23.360 I think that it goes back to this idea of 1:10:23.520 --> 1:10:29.240 conversations about the ethics around AI use being hyper focused 1:10:29.320 --> 1:10:32.400 on individuals, whether or not individuals are good or bad, 1:10:32.479 --> 1:10:34.920 or pathetic, or this or that if they use AI, 1:10:35.240 --> 1:10:38.200 when really, I think the conversation has to be about 1:10:38.200 --> 1:10:40.800 the companies and what the companies from the people who 1:10:40.880 --> 1:10:43.320 run them, are doing, how they are designing this AI, 1:10:43.400 --> 1:10:47.000 because I can tell you AI chatbots like chat GPT 1:10:47.320 --> 1:10:50.680 are intentionally designed to keep you talking and to keep 1:10:50.720 --> 1:10:53.200 you engaged, because they want you to be more and 1:10:53.240 --> 1:10:56.240 more locked into their AI. You know, I went through 1:10:56.360 --> 1:10:59.240 a personal crisis myself where I was caring for my 1:10:59.360 --> 1:11:04.480 dying father and was really thrust into a medical situation 1:11:04.680 --> 1:11:07.120 that was way above my pay grate as a podcaster, 1:11:07.520 --> 1:11:11.680 and I will admit that, in moments of extreme vulnerability, 1:11:11.920 --> 1:11:15.240 turned to AI to try to get questions answered about 1:11:15.320 --> 1:11:18.799 navigating insurance companies, navigating Medicare and Medicaid, all of that. Sure, 1:11:18.840 --> 1:11:22.080 And the way that CHATCHBT did not just give me 1:11:22.240 --> 1:11:24.360 the answer or try to give me something that looked 1:11:24.400 --> 1:11:27.280 like an answer, It was this seems really hard, are 1:11:27.280 --> 1:11:28.120 you asking. 1:11:27.920 --> 1:11:29.599 Because you're dealing with this yourself. 1:11:30.240 --> 1:11:33.040 And so it's the way that AI is designed to 1:11:33.280 --> 1:11:38.200 ask increasingly intimate, sensitive questions of the people who use it, 1:11:38.520 --> 1:11:42.120 with intention. I think that it's not any wonder that 1:11:42.280 --> 1:11:46.400 individuals might find themselves becoming ensnared in that, because that's 1:11:46.400 --> 1:11:49.000 exactly how they were designed by these for profit companies. 1:11:49.520 --> 1:11:49.720 Yeah. 1:11:49.720 --> 1:11:52.800 I mean, if you're asking it logistical problems, you help 1:11:52.880 --> 1:11:56.080 me navigate the process to file and insurance claim, you know, 1:11:56.520 --> 1:11:58.599 using it as this sort of like you know, advanced 1:11:58.600 --> 1:12:02.559 like Internet assistant, but then in doing so, it kind 1:12:02.560 --> 1:12:06.120 of latches onto, you know, vulnerabilities that they can infer 1:12:06.320 --> 1:12:08.960 from the from the types of questions you're asking and 1:12:09.040 --> 1:12:13.040 try to like you know, coax out more information that. 1:12:13.080 --> 1:12:15.599 I mean that that that's like an incredibly insidious process. 1:12:15.960 --> 1:12:18.240 You know, you're you want you want it to help 1:12:18.280 --> 1:12:20.160 with like a very you know, direct task, and then 1:12:20.760 --> 1:12:23.840 in its sly way of of maybe doing that, it's 1:12:23.920 --> 1:12:27.120 trying to introduce the sort of like personal therapeutic element, 1:12:27.920 --> 1:12:30.360 and like what happens to that data? Like what is 1:12:30.360 --> 1:12:33.240 it what is it using that sort of record of 1:12:33.280 --> 1:12:35.639 your own like personal experiences. 1:12:35.040 --> 1:12:37.559 For I am sad to report? The answer is we 1:12:37.600 --> 1:12:42.559 don't really know. Recently, I mean, that's really just what 1:12:42.680 --> 1:12:45.559 it is. The FTC recently asked some of the major 1:12:45.760 --> 1:12:49.679 AI chatbot companies to give clarity about how these companies 1:12:49.680 --> 1:12:52.679 are monetizing engagement and how they are using the sort 1:12:52.720 --> 1:12:56.600 of intimate, personal sensitive information that is obtained through these conversations. 1:12:56.680 --> 1:13:00.320 So we really don't know a ton, But to your wait, 1:13:00.640 --> 1:13:04.759 you know, it's not just chat GPT knows when I'm lonely. 1:13:04.840 --> 1:13:08.280 CHATGPT knows when I'm sad or scared. It's chat GPT. 1:13:08.600 --> 1:13:12.519 This computer knows exactly what works on me when I 1:13:12.520 --> 1:13:16.280 am lonely or vulnerable or scared. And so that to 1:13:16.360 --> 1:13:20.160 me opens up an entire new level of potential for 1:13:20.280 --> 1:13:23.479 surveillance and control. And so people have asked me a 1:13:23.479 --> 1:13:25.920 lot of times, you know, is it so bad if 1:13:25.920 --> 1:13:30.439 people are getting fulfillment or emotional support from AI? The 1:13:30.560 --> 1:13:32.200 question is really not if it's bad or good or 1:13:32.200 --> 1:13:35.280 pathetic or not or whatever. It's what are the companies doing. 1:13:35.439 --> 1:13:39.320 Are the companies behaving ethically and are they really honoring 1:13:39.600 --> 1:13:43.080 the deep sensitive nature of the information they are intentionally 1:13:43.120 --> 1:13:46.400 harvesting from people, often at their lowest or most vulnerable moments. 1:13:47.160 --> 1:13:50.600 I'm gonna reckon to say probably not. I think that 1:13:50.960 --> 1:13:53.679 the interests of these companies are probably slightly different from 1:13:54.160 --> 1:13:57.080 your personal interests as a person or you know, obviously 1:13:57.120 --> 1:13:58.640 like this is the sort of interests of like Yo, 1:13:58.800 --> 1:14:05.120 likerapist or a friend immediate guesses is first an evolution 1:14:05.240 --> 1:14:09.720 of advertising, like how search engine optimization has transformed from 1:14:10.000 --> 1:14:12.679 companies trying to optimize for Google Search to now trying 1:14:12.720 --> 1:14:16.000 to optimize for lllms like chat GPT and to have 1:14:16.120 --> 1:14:20.320 your products be recommended to users by chat GPT by 1:14:20.760 --> 1:14:24.080 creating posts online specifically intending for those posts to be 1:14:24.479 --> 1:14:29.719 read by chat GPT and then regurgitated back to the user. 1:14:30.200 --> 1:14:32.280 And for the past few months, open A has been 1:14:32.760 --> 1:14:37.200 experimenting with ways to make direct purchases through chat GPT, 1:14:37.920 --> 1:14:40.880 and of course companies pay open ai just to put 1:14:41.200 --> 1:14:45.160 full ads at the bottom of your chat GPT logs, 1:14:45.479 --> 1:14:49.160 oftentimes based on your query. The other thing is more 1:14:49.200 --> 1:14:51.640 so kind of like you know, like the Walmart like 1:14:51.720 --> 1:14:54.880 Uber model, like they introduce a service that is very 1:14:54.960 --> 1:14:58.840 cheap to start, possibly free, and then people get hooked 1:14:58.840 --> 1:15:01.200 on the service and then they jack out the price, 1:15:01.240 --> 1:15:03.920 which is kind of what Opening Eyes made model has 1:15:04.000 --> 1:15:06.720 been thus far. And I could I could see that 1:15:06.760 --> 1:15:09.479 becoming a real problem if you have you know, thousands, 1:15:09.520 --> 1:15:12.600 millions of people who use this tool both as like 1:15:12.640 --> 1:15:15.640 a tool online. You know, this is an extension of 1:15:16.280 --> 1:15:18.719 types of things that the Internet has like been operating 1:15:18.760 --> 1:15:21.360 on for years, but using them in this much more 1:15:21.360 --> 1:15:24.040 personally manipulative way because of this sort of you know, 1:15:24.080 --> 1:15:27.280 emotional intimate component of like you're talking to something that 1:15:27.320 --> 1:15:30.000 now just doesn't send information back to you, but talks 1:15:30.040 --> 1:15:32.720 back to you like a person does. And if that 1:15:32.840 --> 1:15:34.720 is the you know, one of the primary ways you 1:15:34.760 --> 1:15:37.760 interact with the Internet, you can easily get hooked on that, 1:15:37.960 --> 1:15:40.800 and then once they're hooked on that chat GPT can 1:15:40.800 --> 1:15:41.920 start boosting. 1:15:41.560 --> 1:15:43.480 That price exactly. 1:15:43.600 --> 1:15:46.400 And I think these products are only going to get 1:15:46.439 --> 1:15:48.840 better and better at convincing us that you're talking to 1:15:48.880 --> 1:15:52.960 a person, not AI. And I think the more that happens, 1:15:53.000 --> 1:15:55.280 the easier it becomes to sort of forget that you 1:15:55.320 --> 1:15:59.519 are actually disclosing intimate information to a private company, depending 1:15:59.600 --> 1:16:02.280 on what I are using, a company that has incredibly 1:16:02.360 --> 1:16:04.240 cozy ties to the Trump administration. 1:16:04.560 --> 1:16:05.599 So Yeah, when. 1:16:05.400 --> 1:16:08.360 People ask me like, is it bad to be in 1:16:08.400 --> 1:16:10.880 a relationship quote unquote with AI, I said that do 1:16:10.960 --> 1:16:12.639 you want to be in a relationship with Sam Altman? 1:16:12.760 --> 1:16:14.400 Do you want to be in a relationship with Mark 1:16:14.479 --> 1:16:17.840 Zuckerberg or Elon Musk or Donald Trump. That's really who 1:16:17.880 --> 1:16:20.320 you are in a relationship with, and don't let the 1:16:20.400 --> 1:16:25.400 AI they're human like flattering, you know, back and forth 1:16:25.760 --> 1:16:27.400 make you forget that reality. 1:16:28.000 --> 1:16:30.840 Do you have these any sorts of idea of what 1:16:30.880 --> 1:16:33.799 we should do about the problem? I guess has governments 1:16:33.920 --> 1:16:38.879 started to regulate the way that these ais communicate with people? 1:16:39.520 --> 1:16:42.400 Is their you know, efforts to kind of adopt our 1:16:42.439 --> 1:16:46.280 privacy policies to this like new emerging threat. 1:16:46.439 --> 1:16:48.960 I guess, yeah, that's a really good question. So I 1:16:48.960 --> 1:16:52.639 would say the most clear cut legislation we see in China. 1:16:52.880 --> 1:16:55.439 Folks might have heard that China's government just recently cracked 1:16:55.439 --> 1:16:59.440 down on AI companions and the ways that AI companions 1:16:59.439 --> 1:17:01.280 can be designed to connect with people. 1:17:01.320 --> 1:17:02.840 They really cracked down on that. 1:17:03.280 --> 1:17:06.960 Interestingly, in the United States, we're not really having that 1:17:07.040 --> 1:17:10.280 conversation in the same way. It might not surprise you 1:17:10.360 --> 1:17:13.720 to find out that the main legislative interest in the 1:17:13.800 --> 1:17:17.400 United States is really kind of focus on minors and 1:17:17.840 --> 1:17:21.760 this kind of idea that miners are using AI companions 1:17:21.800 --> 1:17:26.200 for things like inappropriate erotic role play, and what's so. 1:17:26.280 --> 1:17:27.160 Interesting about that. 1:17:27.200 --> 1:17:31.120 There's two pieces of legislation moving through right now, neither 1:17:31.120 --> 1:17:34.000 of which have been turned into law, but they really 1:17:34.040 --> 1:17:38.360 are quite concerned about minors and sort of sexualizing minors. 1:17:38.520 --> 1:17:41.360 And when you actually look at the research about. 1:17:41.040 --> 1:17:44.400 How minors use AI, things like sex and romance are 1:17:44.400 --> 1:17:48.120 actually way down on the list. Much higher on the 1:17:48.200 --> 1:17:52.000 list is emotional support and advice. And so again we 1:17:52.040 --> 1:17:55.679 are always going to this sort of most extreme iteration 1:17:55.960 --> 1:17:58.519 of the way that AI intimacy is actually showing up 1:17:58.520 --> 1:18:01.360 for people, whether they're adults or miners, and going right 1:18:01.479 --> 1:18:06.120 to legislating romance and sex when in actuality, the much 1:18:06.160 --> 1:18:09.400 more common use case is things like emotionality and advice. 1:18:10.200 --> 1:18:13.680 Yeah, that is a really troubling instinct that there's a 1:18:13.720 --> 1:18:16.040 bunch of the Internet you know, regulation going on right 1:18:16.080 --> 1:18:18.760 now is is all, you know, focused on this sort 1:18:18.800 --> 1:18:21.519 of hysteria in some ways. You know, there is real 1:18:21.560 --> 1:18:25.320 problems with the way that the Internet exploits children, obviously, 1:18:25.720 --> 1:18:27.880 but the way that we are you know, going about 1:18:27.880 --> 1:18:32.439 it resulting in many proposals to end up giving more 1:18:32.479 --> 1:18:35.960 of your information over to these companies or the government 1:18:36.439 --> 1:18:38.600 doesn't feel like it's going to solve many of the 1:18:38.640 --> 1:18:41.760 sort of base problems here and completely overlooks the main 1:18:41.800 --> 1:18:44.320 way that people use these tools. I mean, if I 1:18:44.320 --> 1:18:46.360 if I had a nickel for every time i've I've 1:18:46.400 --> 1:18:49.320 seen a story about this is also an extreme case, 1:18:49.360 --> 1:18:51.240 but but not like a sexual one. But like a kid, 1:18:51.280 --> 1:18:54.320 you know, discussing their like mental health leading to a 1:18:54.320 --> 1:18:57.519 suicide attempt with an AI system, or discussing something as 1:18:57.720 --> 1:18:59.600 extreme as like you know, like a public act of 1:18:59.640 --> 1:19:03.400 violence a shooting, and the AI essentially helping coax them 1:19:03.479 --> 1:19:05.679 into being able to do that. Right, there's a bunch 1:19:05.760 --> 1:19:09.680 of problems that require like legitimate regulation, but the's sort 1:19:09.680 --> 1:19:14.320 of like puritanical, you know, sex crazy nature of our 1:19:14.360 --> 1:19:17.960 government and you know, specifically the Republicans, but but also 1:19:18.040 --> 1:19:21.400 just like American culture in general is just going to 1:19:21.439 --> 1:19:24.400 be so ill equipped to actually handle this. This sort 1:19:24.439 --> 1:19:26.880 of like a subtlety and nuance of a lot of 1:19:26.880 --> 1:19:27.760 these problems. 1:19:28.120 --> 1:19:30.720 Yeah, you really put that well, And it's it's a 1:19:30.720 --> 1:19:34.800 little bit complicated because, as you said, there are real problems. 1:19:34.800 --> 1:19:38.599 There are real legislative and regulatory needs that we should 1:19:38.640 --> 1:19:42.400 be having real conversations about. And I think it is 1:19:42.520 --> 1:19:45.000 so easy to get whipped up into a hysteria. It 1:19:45.040 --> 1:19:47.760 is so easy to say, we just need some kind 1:19:47.800 --> 1:19:50.320 of legislation. I need to feel like there is some 1:19:50.360 --> 1:19:54.880 sort of progress being made on this complex, scary, sensitive issue, 1:19:54.960 --> 1:19:57.320 and so I will get on board for. 1:19:57.360 --> 1:19:59.959 Legislation that is actually not really that good. 1:20:00.120 --> 1:20:04.200 Legislation that doesn't even really meaningly address the actual problem. Right, 1:20:04.200 --> 1:20:06.280 And so yeah, I think that we're in this really 1:20:06.360 --> 1:20:10.960 thorny place where even people that I think are reasonable, 1:20:11.160 --> 1:20:14.960 like leftists whatever, can quite easily get on board with 1:20:15.080 --> 1:20:18.839 legislation that really, in the end might change the Internet 1:20:18.840 --> 1:20:22.160 in ways that we might not actually want because we 1:20:22.160 --> 1:20:25.000 were so whipped up into this like moral panic about 1:20:25.080 --> 1:20:27.280 legislating technology and the Internet. 1:20:37.840 --> 1:20:40.760 The lack of focus on the specific companies. You know, 1:20:40.840 --> 1:20:44.479 just talking about these things is like abstract technologies instead 1:20:44.479 --> 1:20:46.880 of actually talking about No, these are like specific companies. 1:20:46.880 --> 1:20:49.240 We are doing specific things and that the government can 1:20:49.520 --> 1:20:52.920 regulate in a specific way. Will that be the Trump government? 1:20:52.960 --> 1:20:57.080 Probably not, But I don't think slash hope that Trump 1:20:57.200 --> 1:21:01.479 won't be in power forever. We'll see, and we may 1:21:01.520 --> 1:21:03.680 as well use, you know, these next two years to 1:21:03.680 --> 1:21:06.519 try to build more public support for actual, you know, 1:21:06.640 --> 1:21:09.840 sensible regulation at the federal level. When I was at 1:21:09.920 --> 1:21:12.599 d C going to that you know, Liberal convention, which 1:21:12.600 --> 1:21:15.360 I've talked about on the show. Last week, I did 1:21:15.360 --> 1:21:18.080 go to a panel with Representative Don Bayer, who's getting 1:21:18.240 --> 1:21:21.800 either a master's or a PhD in computer science right now, 1:21:22.040 --> 1:21:26.240 specifically to help him do AI regulation, and he said 1:21:26.240 --> 1:21:30.000 he's not optimistic about AI being regulated in a serious 1:21:30.040 --> 1:21:31.960 way while Trump is in power because of you know 1:21:32.000 --> 1:21:34.719 how much these companies have tried to cozy up to Trump, 1:21:35.160 --> 1:21:38.679 and Trump's trying to shut down states attempts to regulate 1:21:38.720 --> 1:21:42.080 certain things. But he does have hope that in our 1:21:42.320 --> 1:21:46.479 next Congress or in the next presidential administration, there will 1:21:46.520 --> 1:21:49.120 be the opportunity to regulate these companies on a federal level, 1:21:49.120 --> 1:21:52.600 and in the meantime, states can push for their own regulation, 1:21:53.080 --> 1:21:55.719 States can try to put certain safety measures in place. 1:21:56.240 --> 1:21:58.320 But I think right now it would definitely behoove us 1:21:58.360 --> 1:22:01.360 to take this technology as a real legitimate threat, not 1:22:01.439 --> 1:22:03.400 something that's just gonna go away in the next few years, 1:22:03.479 --> 1:22:05.240 not something that you know, the bubble is gonna pop 1:22:05.280 --> 1:22:08.680 any day now. Any day now, it's gonna pop. As 1:22:08.760 --> 1:22:11.400 nice as that is to you know, tell yourself that 1:22:11.560 --> 1:22:13.280 is kicking the can down the road in like a 1:22:13.360 --> 1:22:15.559 in like a real sense, and this this thing is 1:22:15.600 --> 1:22:18.799 having very real impacts. I mean, people are focused obviously 1:22:19.200 --> 1:22:21.400 on like the data center question, but I think that 1:22:21.400 --> 1:22:23.240 that relates to the same base problem is do we 1:22:23.280 --> 1:22:25.960 have an opposition to these things in this sort of 1:22:26.080 --> 1:22:29.640 abstract technological sense, or do we have an opposition to 1:22:30.080 --> 1:22:34.200 these tools being developed by and for for profit companies 1:22:34.520 --> 1:22:36.559 who want to make money off of us. For me, 1:22:36.680 --> 1:22:38.640 that that is the main problem. If you want to 1:22:38.680 --> 1:22:40.759 be like a lunite that it was also the lunnit, 1:22:40.760 --> 1:22:44.840 it's the main problem. They weren't opposed to technology in 1:22:44.880 --> 1:22:47.720 this abstract sense, but the specific way that it was 1:22:47.760 --> 1:22:51.479 transforming production to benefit capitalists instead of workers. And if 1:22:51.520 --> 1:22:53.599 we want to think about the Internet in the same way, 1:22:53.920 --> 1:22:56.759 what's happening is that they're deploying these technologies to benefit 1:22:57.120 --> 1:22:59.400 the people that own these tech companies rather than regular people. 1:22:59.439 --> 1:23:02.559 And if we can think about regulating on that basis 1:23:02.680 --> 1:23:05.840 not just in complete opposition to these things, I think 1:23:05.880 --> 1:23:08.120 that might actually have a lot more positive outcomes because 1:23:08.439 --> 1:23:10.000 these things are gonna get developed, these things are gonna 1:23:10.000 --> 1:23:12.000 get built. I don't think we're gonna be able to 1:23:12.000 --> 1:23:15.080 totally shut down AI as an industry in the next 1:23:15.160 --> 1:23:17.840 few years. I just don't see that being possible. Think about, 1:23:17.960 --> 1:23:19.320 like in the nineties, do you think they could have 1:23:19.320 --> 1:23:22.360 like shut down the like the Internet as an emerging technology, 1:23:22.600 --> 1:23:25.000 this is where all the capital is going. The most 1:23:25.000 --> 1:23:26.560 hope that I have is looking at something like the 1:23:26.600 --> 1:23:30.719 stop Data Center movement as an opportunity to like educate 1:23:30.760 --> 1:23:34.240 people about how these companies are profiting off of us, 1:23:34.320 --> 1:23:37.879 and maybe we can team up together across party lines, 1:23:38.240 --> 1:23:41.840 across you know whatever, to actually have a sort of 1:23:42.040 --> 1:23:45.559 a popular front against these tech companies so that the 1:23:45.640 --> 1:23:49.240 Internet and that you know, these advanced tools can actually 1:23:49.360 --> 1:23:52.400 exist in a way that is democratically decided and actually 1:23:52.400 --> 1:23:55.479 to the benefit of people and not like three dudes 1:23:55.479 --> 1:23:57.840 who are overdosing on Academy and every week in San Francisco. 1:23:59.360 --> 1:24:00.960 I agree with you. 1:24:01.520 --> 1:24:04.360 I think while we are all sort of like having 1:24:04.400 --> 1:24:10.040 this conversation, specific tech companies are increasingly making forays into 1:24:10.439 --> 1:24:13.719 the most intimate inner parts of our lives. Open ai 1:24:13.960 --> 1:24:18.240 just announced their first ever consumer hardware product, and you 1:24:18.280 --> 1:24:20.280 could probably guess what that product is going to be. 1:24:20.320 --> 1:24:23.519 It's going to be a hockey puck sized smart speaker 1:24:23.840 --> 1:24:26.720 that you put in your home that reacts to you 1:24:26.960 --> 1:24:29.960 like what they said, call a human like AI companion, 1:24:30.000 --> 1:24:32.719 an intimate AI companion, and it will have the ability 1:24:32.720 --> 1:24:36.040 to mechanically, they say, follow you around from room to 1:24:36.120 --> 1:24:36.840 room in your house. 1:24:36.880 --> 1:24:38.799 And so while we're all kind. 1:24:38.680 --> 1:24:41.639 Of having this conversation, you can bet your ass these 1:24:41.680 --> 1:24:45.120 tech companies are increasingly trying to not just be the 1:24:45.120 --> 1:24:49.840 most powerful AI companies, but the most emotionally supportive, the 1:24:49.880 --> 1:24:53.360 most emotionally invasive. You know, we've all talked so much 1:24:53.400 --> 1:24:57.839 about the more kind of logistical elements of our digital selves, 1:24:57.840 --> 1:25:00.880 you know, our intellectual property, our brows data, who gets 1:25:00.880 --> 1:25:03.639 to make money from that? But I firmly do believe 1:25:03.680 --> 1:25:05.760 the next iteration of the digital rights movement will be 1:25:05.800 --> 1:25:10.240 about our inner emotional lives and who gets to commodify that, 1:25:10.520 --> 1:25:12.880 who gets to profit from that? And so, you know, 1:25:13.000 --> 1:25:15.720 as grim as that sounds, I completely agree with you 1:25:15.760 --> 1:25:19.240 that I'm also incredibly optimistic about the moment that we're 1:25:19.280 --> 1:25:22.799 in when it comes to your average person's sentiment around 1:25:23.040 --> 1:25:27.839 things like big tech data centers, AI commodifying every resource, 1:25:27.880 --> 1:25:31.240 whether that's our intimate emotional data, or our environmental resources. 1:25:31.240 --> 1:25:34.280 I am incredibly optimistic that we are sort of on 1:25:34.439 --> 1:25:38.559 the right page, collectively pushing back and saying, I don't know. 1:25:38.640 --> 1:25:40.360 These tech companies say that this is all going to 1:25:40.439 --> 1:25:44.120 be really great for us, Is it actually yeah? 1:25:44.160 --> 1:25:47.920 Based on let me look at the window briefly. No, No, 1:25:48.120 --> 1:25:49.479 I don't think so. 1:25:50.800 --> 1:25:54.240 Let me look at back my magic apel sources say. 1:25:54.160 --> 1:25:59.800 No, signs points to naw. Is there either kind of 1:25:59.800 --> 1:26:02.519 a final points about your new audiobook that you would 1:26:02.560 --> 1:26:07.080 like to tease to to the listeners before we sign off? 1:26:07.560 --> 1:26:07.880 Yeah? 1:26:08.080 --> 1:26:13.000 It is really accessible, and the conversation is dark and 1:26:13.080 --> 1:26:14.240 hard and vulnerable, but. 1:26:14.200 --> 1:26:16.160 Also fun and funny and engaging. 1:26:16.200 --> 1:26:19.160 I talk to people who actually say that they have 1:26:19.360 --> 1:26:22.320 experienced intimacy with AI, and so, if you ever wanted 1:26:22.320 --> 1:26:24.559 to go beyond the sort of clickbait headlines of some 1:26:24.600 --> 1:26:26.839 of these stories that you might have skimmed on social media, 1:26:26.920 --> 1:26:29.719 you hear directly from folks about what brought them into 1:26:29.720 --> 1:26:32.960 connection with AI, which I find fascinating. I try to 1:26:33.040 --> 1:26:36.160 ned chatchpt into having sex with me in the audio book. 1:26:36.200 --> 1:26:38.000 If you want to find out if that worked or not, 1:26:38.160 --> 1:26:41.479 check it out. And then ultimately again I would say 1:26:41.680 --> 1:26:45.439 reporting the book made me very optimistic. One of the 1:26:45.479 --> 1:26:47.920 reasons why I'm so optimistic in this moment is that 1:26:48.400 --> 1:26:51.000 I just think when you actually look at the research 1:26:51.000 --> 1:26:52.800 and listen to what people are talking about when they 1:26:52.840 --> 1:26:55.920 talk about intimacy with AI, it just becomes incredibly clear 1:26:55.960 --> 1:26:58.439 that AI can never replace humans. 1:26:58.600 --> 1:27:00.200 AI cannot replace human labor. 1:27:00.479 --> 1:27:03.280 AI cannot replace what people are looking for when they 1:27:03.320 --> 1:27:07.559 look for nourishing connections and relationships. And so I kind 1:27:07.560 --> 1:27:12.280 of ended the audiobook feeling incredibly optimistic about the power 1:27:12.320 --> 1:27:15.160 of human connection and the power of human labor, and 1:27:15.479 --> 1:27:17.680 the desire that we all have to connect with each 1:27:17.720 --> 1:27:20.120 other that we know will never be replaced by AI. 1:27:20.560 --> 1:27:23.840 I've seen that Spielberg movie. I think it's possible. I 1:27:23.880 --> 1:27:26.120 think it's possible. I think we could all have a 1:27:26.200 --> 1:27:28.519 kind of creepy seven year old AI bought soon. 1:27:28.800 --> 1:27:29.800 Oh my gosh. 1:27:30.000 --> 1:27:32.240 I will say I am kind of low key obsessed 1:27:32.280 --> 1:27:36.680 with movies like that, like AI or Ex Machina or 1:27:36.800 --> 1:27:37.479 Blade Runner. 1:27:37.520 --> 1:27:39.880 I think that we're all so it sounds like. 1:27:39.840 --> 1:27:42.280 A niche thing, but when you look at pop culture, 1:27:42.520 --> 1:27:45.480 we have been interested in people who have intimate connections 1:27:45.479 --> 1:27:48.760 with technology and AI for a really long time, myself included. 1:27:49.280 --> 1:27:51.320 No. I think that is a big part of how 1:27:51.320 --> 1:27:53.639 these companies are able to kind of pass this stuff 1:27:53.640 --> 1:27:56.120 off to people. It creates a sort of public buy 1:27:56.160 --> 1:27:59.839 in because of like the pop culture idea of these things, 1:28:00.360 --> 1:28:01.800 both the good and the bad. I think both the 1:28:01.880 --> 1:28:05.040 sort of apocalyptic versions of it make the company seem 1:28:05.280 --> 1:28:07.920 more legitimate, and that makes investors excited because like, oh, 1:28:07.920 --> 1:28:10.040 this is actually be a real thing, even if even 1:28:10.040 --> 1:28:12.000 if it causes bad things. You know, it's this sort 1:28:12.040 --> 1:28:14.919 of like a you know, don't invent the Torment Nexus 1:28:14.920 --> 1:28:17.120 book being like, oh this is this is a great idea. 1:28:18.200 --> 1:28:20.439 But I mean also in like the Blade under Sense, 1:28:20.439 --> 1:28:22.200 you know, these these sorts of more like humanistic looks 1:28:22.240 --> 1:28:24.240 about like what does it really mean to be human? 1:28:24.320 --> 1:28:27.519 You know, what actually is the line between artificial intelligence 1:28:27.560 --> 1:28:30.000 and humanity. I think that that sort of you know, 1:28:30.080 --> 1:28:34.760 very like armchair philosophizing as that's in those sorts of 1:28:34.760 --> 1:28:37.240 films that it does does make it easier for people 1:28:37.240 --> 1:28:40.000 to start to talk to these things like they could 1:28:40.000 --> 1:28:42.400 maybe be a person. In the more extreme cases, there 1:28:42.479 --> 1:28:44.960 was that like Google Developer a few years ago, who 1:28:44.960 --> 1:28:47.520 like who quitor got fired and was like, I've discovered 1:28:47.560 --> 1:28:50.559 that Google's AI is a real person, and I think 1:28:50.720 --> 1:28:52.680 it can it can really like encourage people to like 1:28:52.840 --> 1:28:57.400 want to almost create this sort of conscious humanity within 1:28:57.520 --> 1:29:01.000 these tools, even if those you know, tools aren't even 1:29:01.040 --> 1:29:03.680 there yet, but there's like a desire to kind of 1:29:04.080 --> 1:29:07.000 if I talk to it enough, maybe it will become human. 1:29:07.600 --> 1:29:09.320 Which again this kind of sort of back to where 1:29:09.320 --> 1:29:10.960 we started. There's these sorts of like, you know, very 1:29:11.160 --> 1:29:13.479 very kind of base problems with the way that people 1:29:13.600 --> 1:29:15.559 use the internet to kind of solve this sort of 1:29:15.600 --> 1:29:18.760 you know, social alienation and social disintegration that we have 1:29:19.400 --> 1:29:22.600 in our society and culture. My main issue is that 1:29:22.640 --> 1:29:25.160 the way that companies golome on to that as an 1:29:25.200 --> 1:29:26.880 opportunity to make a lot of money. 1:29:27.560 --> 1:29:29.839 Yeah, I think that's exactly what we're seeing. 1:29:29.920 --> 1:29:34.200 You know, we have a loneliness issue that people have 1:29:34.320 --> 1:29:37.559 described as an epidemic right here in this country. We 1:29:37.600 --> 1:29:41.599 live under such oppressive structures that the idea of doing 1:29:41.680 --> 1:29:44.760 the labor that it takes to maintain friendships when you're 1:29:44.840 --> 1:29:47.599 working a million hours to be able to afford your rent. 1:29:47.600 --> 1:29:49.679 That's gone up one hundred dollars in the last month 1:29:50.000 --> 1:29:54.000 seems impossible, and so all of these are very real needs, 1:29:54.040 --> 1:29:57.280 and tech companies are not only making those needs worse, 1:29:57.479 --> 1:30:00.439 but then selling us back a solution the form of 1:30:00.439 --> 1:30:03.960 technology that they own, operate, and profit from. It's a 1:30:04.000 --> 1:30:05.920 real cyclical problem, but I don't think we will solve 1:30:05.920 --> 1:30:09.880 it until we have those systemic institutional conversations about how 1:30:09.920 --> 1:30:13.920 we can meaningly fix what's so broken that is leading 1:30:13.960 --> 1:30:17.000 people to find this kind of nourishment in technology in 1:30:17.040 --> 1:30:17.639 the first place. 1:30:18.080 --> 1:30:24.559 Easypasy, yeah, simple. Where can people both hear more about 1:30:24.600 --> 1:30:28.120 this in the audiobook and then also find you elsewhere 1:30:28.240 --> 1:30:29.000 on the internet. 1:30:29.160 --> 1:30:31.240 Well, you can check out the audiobook at love at 1:30:31.320 --> 1:30:32.400 first prompt dot com. 1:30:32.560 --> 1:30:34.559 You can get it wherever your audiobooks are sold. 1:30:34.600 --> 1:30:37.280 I particularly like Libro FM because they give money to 1:30:37.520 --> 1:30:40.599 local bookstores and libraries. But you can also follow me 1:30:40.640 --> 1:30:43.160 on Instagram at Bridget Marie in DC and check out 1:30:43.200 --> 1:30:45.200 my podcast There Are No Girls on the Internet. 1:30:45.520 --> 1:30:51.880 Thank you, Bridget for introducing a new horror to everybody. 1:30:52.280 --> 1:30:54.320 One of our favorite things to do on this show. 1:30:55.080 --> 1:30:56.280 Thanks so much for having. 1:30:56.080 --> 1:31:10.840 Me Welcome to it could Happen hear a podcast about 1:31:10.840 --> 1:31:12.920 workers and the things that they do to fight, to 1:31:12.960 --> 1:31:15.840 survive and live in a better world. I am your host, 1:31:15.920 --> 1:31:19.439 Bio Wong. Some of the worst treated and most depressed 1:31:19.439 --> 1:31:22.519 workers in the United States are incarcerated workers, a group 1:31:22.560 --> 1:31:26.840 of workers who are very seldom talked about much less 1:31:26.880 --> 1:31:31.720 actually like formally organized by the conventional labor movement, and 1:31:32.080 --> 1:31:36.280 here with me today to talk about the Incarcerated Workers 1:31:36.400 --> 1:31:41.160 Organizing Committee as Colin from IWALK, Giselle Garcia, who is 1:31:41.479 --> 1:31:45.439 I walk's California outreach coordinator, and Adre Dawson, who is 1:31:45.479 --> 1:31:49.040 a formerly incarcerated person and in his MA support the 1:31:49.080 --> 1:31:50.960 all three of you, welcome to the show. 1:31:51.840 --> 1:31:53.000 Thank you so very much. 1:31:53.600 --> 1:31:55.439 Thank you well talking to me. 1:31:56.720 --> 1:31:58.880 Yeah, I'm excited to talk to all of you, and 1:31:58.920 --> 1:32:01.840 I guess I want to start. Can you explain a 1:32:01.840 --> 1:32:05.240 little bit about what the Incarcerated Workers Organizing Committee is 1:32:05.280 --> 1:32:06.800 for people who are unfamiliar with. 1:32:06.720 --> 1:32:09.519 It, I'll kick us off and everyone can supplement. 1:32:10.080 --> 1:32:11.040 So I would. 1:32:10.840 --> 1:32:17.040 Definitely say that the Incarcerated Workers Organizing Committee or EYEWALK, 1:32:17.439 --> 1:32:21.520 is a committee of the incarcerated workers of the World 1:32:21.880 --> 1:32:26.960 Labor Union, and it was formed in recognition that there's 1:32:27.040 --> 1:32:30.840 probably not a more exploitative kind of labor setting than 1:32:31.439 --> 1:32:36.599 the prison system, and not just you know, US centric, 1:32:37.120 --> 1:32:41.280 but also across the globe. And so our effort is 1:32:41.439 --> 1:32:46.800 to build a bridge with our incarcerated neighbors, build that 1:32:46.880 --> 1:32:51.800 connection and true solidarity rooted in connection, and then help 1:32:51.920 --> 1:32:56.160 support those inside with resources so that they can not 1:32:56.240 --> 1:33:03.960 only come to an understanding of the profound intentionality behind 1:33:04.160 --> 1:33:09.559 a labor exploitation inside of carceral settings, but also give 1:33:09.720 --> 1:33:13.639 them support them with tools that they ask for when 1:33:13.640 --> 1:33:17.960 it comes to organizing those conditions, and it's led by 1:33:18.000 --> 1:33:22.479 those inside really, because no one can inform practis in 1:33:22.560 --> 1:33:25.760 this area other than those of largelatriation them. 1:33:26.360 --> 1:33:29.599 Yeah, do we want to talk more about like what's 1:33:29.600 --> 1:33:32.160 happening right now and then come back to sort of 1:33:32.240 --> 1:33:34.040 more historical components or if you want to try to do 1:33:34.080 --> 1:33:34.960 the history now. 1:33:35.680 --> 1:33:38.920 Well, I think I can give like a tad bit 1:33:39.040 --> 1:33:42.200 on assist says, I was in a carportd Amy not 1:33:42.400 --> 1:33:46.160 long ago inside of CDCR Spatula, California. 1:33:46.400 --> 1:33:47.680 Cd ORC is. 1:33:47.600 --> 1:33:52.080 The California Department of Corrections and Rehabilitation, which runs California's 1:33:52.120 --> 1:33:53.200 prison system. 1:33:53.280 --> 1:34:00.000 And I do understand the significance of working for pennies. Yeah, 1:34:00.120 --> 1:34:04.760 when that same job outside is paying you thirty forty dollars. 1:34:04.920 --> 1:34:08.559 I worked for HFM, I made thirty five forty cents 1:34:08.760 --> 1:34:12.640 an hour. That job out here pays in the streets 1:34:12.920 --> 1:34:17.400 thirty five forty dollars a hour. Jesus, the cost of 1:34:17.479 --> 1:34:21.439 living was low. The price of what it costs to 1:34:21.479 --> 1:34:24.240 live inside when a incarcerated situation was high. 1:34:24.720 --> 1:34:26.120 Two paste two dollars. 1:34:26.360 --> 1:34:29.760 After you do the two paces, you're loashing your few 1:34:29.800 --> 1:34:33.120 little at the small size dollar store size prizes. You 1:34:33.160 --> 1:34:35.240 don't have anything left to live with, you know what 1:34:35.280 --> 1:34:38.599 I'm saying. And it takes a lot to live inside 1:34:38.760 --> 1:34:45.000 of CDCR because they provides you housing because you're incarcerated. 1:34:45.320 --> 1:34:48.840 But outside of housing and the food that they try 1:34:48.880 --> 1:34:51.200 to put together to make right for us, oh my god, 1:34:51.720 --> 1:34:54.960 there's really not much more they can do for you. 1:34:55.160 --> 1:34:56.680 A lot of the things they want you to do 1:34:56.760 --> 1:34:59.800 for yourself out of your he need job, your job 1:34:59.840 --> 1:35:04.840 that paid sense. Yeah, So it was really hard. I 1:35:05.040 --> 1:35:09.000 did almost sixteen years. It was a struggle. It was ugly, 1:35:09.160 --> 1:35:12.200 and it was a struggle if not for eye walk. 1:35:12.840 --> 1:35:17.280 They gave us resources to help us with books and paper. 1:35:17.880 --> 1:35:21.320 They taught us how to exercise our labor laws and 1:35:22.520 --> 1:35:25.680 how to fight for ourselves and to know what you 1:35:25.840 --> 1:35:29.840 are allowed and what you can have, and don't let 1:35:29.840 --> 1:35:31.400 nobody beat you, don't let them cheat you. 1:35:31.640 --> 1:35:33.920 This is your right to have this, you know. 1:35:35.040 --> 1:35:37.760 I think just before our incarcerated I left, they had 1:35:37.920 --> 1:35:40.720 raised the percentage rate on some of the jobs, the 1:35:40.840 --> 1:35:41.880 more harder labors. 1:35:41.920 --> 1:35:43.759 They gave it a few more pennies. 1:35:44.400 --> 1:35:49.840 But it's crazy how multi billion dollar corporation don't take 1:35:49.920 --> 1:35:52.920 care of the inmates who keep it working. We do 1:35:53.080 --> 1:35:56.599 the laundry, we do the cooking, we do the housing, 1:35:57.160 --> 1:35:59.960 we do the clerk work, make glass. 1:36:00.800 --> 1:36:02.600 Everything is done by inmates. 1:36:02.800 --> 1:36:05.560 I work for carpentry, so I built some of the buildings, 1:36:05.880 --> 1:36:09.280 but yet I only worked for pennies. And if you 1:36:09.320 --> 1:36:13.360 think about it, that penny labor is even lower than 1:36:13.560 --> 1:36:17.639 slave labor in Mexico or some of the more countries 1:36:17.680 --> 1:36:19.200 that don't provide anything. 1:36:19.760 --> 1:36:26.240 Yeah, so obviously, as you're describing, these are unbelievably horrific 1:36:26.400 --> 1:36:29.960 conditions and wages, and god, I keep thinking about, you know, 1:36:30.520 --> 1:36:33.679 like two dollars for toothpaste. If you're making twenty cents 1:36:33.680 --> 1:36:37.519 an hour, it's like ten hours of work for like 1:36:37.760 --> 1:36:41.880 one of the small rings of toothpaste, which is just nightmare. 1:36:42.960 --> 1:36:45.880 What does organizing look like under those conditions? 1:36:46.240 --> 1:36:50.960 I think most of us lived in flight or fight mode. 1:36:51.200 --> 1:36:54.320 You had to do what you had to do to survive. 1:36:54.640 --> 1:36:58.680 The mental health level in CITYCR is like ninety nine 1:36:58.760 --> 1:37:03.840 percent over super high because people are stealing toilet. 1:37:03.600 --> 1:37:05.320 Paper and past things. 1:37:05.360 --> 1:37:07.160 They give us what you need more because there's not 1:37:07.280 --> 1:37:09.800 enough and I don't make enough money or you. 1:37:09.760 --> 1:37:12.439 Know, toothpaste, you're doing extra. 1:37:12.800 --> 1:37:18.240 So it has made the CITYCR system a little violentile 1:37:18.640 --> 1:37:20.960 because people are stealing a robin and mugging like in 1:37:20.960 --> 1:37:23.360 the free world, but you're taken from penny pinching people 1:37:24.040 --> 1:37:27.800 that don't have anything. So it's made our environment a 1:37:27.840 --> 1:37:29.559 little bit more violet if you've. 1:37:29.439 --> 1:37:35.479 Asked me, Yeah, I want to reflect on what Odre said. 1:37:36.040 --> 1:37:40.519 Prison is tremendously expensive, you know, within our circles. I 1:37:40.520 --> 1:37:44.799 guess it's famously more expensive to send someone to prison 1:37:44.880 --> 1:37:49.040 than to send them to Harvard. However, people are in 1:37:49.200 --> 1:37:54.280 these like really desperate material circumstances for stuff like toothpaste, 1:37:54.479 --> 1:37:59.400 theodor and even toothbrushes and things like that. And within 1:37:59.439 --> 1:38:02.559 people that know CDCR, they call from your prison system. 1:38:02.600 --> 1:38:05.120 On the men's side, they do a thing where they 1:38:05.760 --> 1:38:08.840 track and monitor the calories that people get because the 1:38:08.880 --> 1:38:11.479 guys all, you know, like to work out a lot, 1:38:11.600 --> 1:38:14.360 and like they just don't want people bulking up that much, 1:38:14.560 --> 1:38:17.840 and so they physically restrict the amount of protein and 1:38:17.920 --> 1:38:24.600 calorie intake to Jesus sort of facilitate their ideal security situation. 1:38:25.200 --> 1:38:28.479 So they're just starving everyone like intentionally. 1:38:28.040 --> 1:38:31.760 Yes, yes, precisely, yeah, keeping people yeah alive, you know, 1:38:31.920 --> 1:38:35.479 and in purgatory and not not able to like be 1:38:35.600 --> 1:38:39.160 how they want to be. And so like that situation 1:38:39.200 --> 1:38:43.800 of artificial scarcity is it's reflected on you know, the 1:38:43.840 --> 1:38:48.280 outside of prison too, and you know, just hustle culture, 1:38:48.840 --> 1:38:52.840 you know, housing scarcity, artificial housing scarcity, all kinds of 1:38:52.840 --> 1:38:56.479 other artificial scarcity. And I think in prison it's like 1:38:56.520 --> 1:38:59.360 a it's like a form of social conditioning where people 1:38:59.360 --> 1:39:02.880 are being condition into this scarcity mindset in like a 1:39:02.920 --> 1:39:05.920 really extreme way and being forced into this kind of 1:39:05.960 --> 1:39:10.120 hustle mindset. And so like all of the things that 1:39:10.280 --> 1:39:13.719 the prison administration kind of like trots out to justify 1:39:13.840 --> 1:39:17.599 their new security quote unquote measures, which is just often 1:39:17.640 --> 1:39:22.040 stuff like banning physical mail, you know, restrictions on visits, 1:39:22.080 --> 1:39:27.599 restrictions on books, restrictions on showers, restrictions on anything you 1:39:27.600 --> 1:39:31.360 know remotely humane about prison. Like these things are all 1:39:31.400 --> 1:39:34.599 justified as security. And the things that they talk about 1:39:34.600 --> 1:39:37.120 when they talk about security is like you know, drugs, 1:39:37.160 --> 1:39:40.599 you know, prison commerce, things like this, and like, prison 1:39:40.640 --> 1:39:45.719 commerce exists because of this situation of incredible scarcity that 1:39:46.280 --> 1:39:50.080 the prison itself is like maintaining to begin with. And 1:39:50.120 --> 1:39:53.360 the point of eyewalk in part, like part of our 1:39:53.680 --> 1:39:57.719 sort of mission and like strategy is to get people together, 1:39:58.040 --> 1:40:03.000 get people like you know, talking about solidarity, connecting people 1:40:03.120 --> 1:40:06.479 who have a kind of like minded kind of outlook 1:40:06.680 --> 1:40:09.720 on things, so that we can start to form a 1:40:09.760 --> 1:40:15.080 foundation for solidarity that is not based around the prison 1:40:15.160 --> 1:40:18.599 economy as it exists, but rather based on like inside 1:40:18.640 --> 1:40:23.760 outside solidarity, on like a you know, a humanistic socialistic 1:40:24.160 --> 1:40:29.240 level in that sense, Like there are stark similarities but 1:40:29.280 --> 1:40:32.960 also very stark differences with you know, other groups that 1:40:33.040 --> 1:40:35.800 do the same thing, right, Like, essentially a lot of 1:40:35.880 --> 1:40:40.160 groups that arise sort of spontaneously that do that kind 1:40:40.160 --> 1:40:43.160 of stuff tend to have a capitalistic nature to them, 1:40:43.439 --> 1:40:46.080 and those are the groups that come with the state 1:40:46.120 --> 1:40:49.840 refers to as gangs oftentimes, and there are different ones 1:40:50.200 --> 1:40:53.240 and they do different things and they have unique cultures. 1:40:53.439 --> 1:40:56.160 Like the term gang kind of flattens them all into one. 1:40:56.439 --> 1:40:59.880 But yeah, they're they're all very different and have different 1:41:00.000 --> 1:41:03.160 sort of survival adaptation mechanisms. 1:41:03.439 --> 1:41:05.040 They're like large clicks. 1:41:06.439 --> 1:41:09.120 I think that would like kind of be better from 1:41:09.120 --> 1:41:14.240 a CDR since CDCR is like one of the most 1:41:14.439 --> 1:41:19.960 largest human trafficking industries in the business. They collect people, 1:41:20.280 --> 1:41:23.719 they work people for nothing, and the revenue all goes 1:41:23.800 --> 1:41:27.240 back to them because no matter what we spend, we 1:41:27.439 --> 1:41:31.680 spend it with CDCR. So not only are you collecting 1:41:31.800 --> 1:41:34.960 fifty sixty thousand a year per person, and the institution 1:41:35.200 --> 1:41:38.679 is overpacked so it carries up to twenty five hundred 1:41:38.680 --> 1:41:42.080 people at a time. These people are working for either. 1:41:41.960 --> 1:41:43.840 Dollars or cents. 1:41:43.800 --> 1:41:46.719 And every dollar they have is invested back at CDC 1:41:46.880 --> 1:41:50.960 you are. So it is one hundred percent financial gain 1:41:51.040 --> 1:41:52.839 for CDCR, no matter. 1:41:52.640 --> 1:41:53.280 How to look at it. 1:41:53.320 --> 1:41:57.240 Because they supply everything, they sell everything, everything goes right 1:41:57.280 --> 1:42:01.679 back to CDCR at the cost of human lives, for medical, 1:42:02.080 --> 1:42:04.800 for food, the things that they give you is for 1:42:04.840 --> 1:42:07.240 you to barely make it. And what it does is 1:42:07.280 --> 1:42:09.639 it keeps you in the same kind of criminal mind state, 1:42:09.960 --> 1:42:13.080 so you're a better criminal when you leave because you 1:42:13.320 --> 1:42:15.679 have to do what you have to do to survive. 1:42:15.720 --> 1:42:19.679 In their and at forty fifty thousand dollars per person 1:42:19.720 --> 1:42:23.639 a year, I feel like nobody should be hungry, nobody 1:42:23.640 --> 1:42:26.799 should need shoes, nobody should need t shirts. Two bases 1:42:26.800 --> 1:42:30.080 should be full sized, shampoos should be full size. They 1:42:30.120 --> 1:42:33.160 invest the thousands millions of dollars in mental health, and 1:42:33.240 --> 1:42:37.479 yet the suicide rate is high there because a bruce 1:42:37.600 --> 1:42:40.080 rate is high there, whether it's being abused by. 1:42:39.960 --> 1:42:41.080 Staff or by inmate. 1:42:41.840 --> 1:42:45.640 Abuses twenty four hours around the clock in CDCR and 1:42:45.760 --> 1:42:49.080 only a very few survive. And they don't survive on scratch. 1:42:49.640 --> 1:42:53.080 They survive because they have a super will to survive. 1:42:53.960 --> 1:42:56.880 So for me, that's where I was at. I had 1:42:56.880 --> 1:42:59.880 a super will to survive. So I hid in the crack. 1:43:00.560 --> 1:43:03.120 I tried to do my bare minimum. I stayed in 1:43:03.160 --> 1:43:06.600 groups and stuff. I fed my mind, I nursed my 1:43:06.640 --> 1:43:08.840 body the best I could. I took care of my 1:43:08.880 --> 1:43:12.240 health the best I could. I just stayed focused. But 1:43:12.720 --> 1:43:16.360 either go see always I will always have me always. 1:43:16.800 --> 1:43:19.680 I've been a member for almost eight years now, eight 1:43:19.760 --> 1:43:22.800 nine years I was a member incarcerated, and now I 1:43:22.800 --> 1:43:24.439 would be able to talk to Collins and work through 1:43:24.439 --> 1:43:26.800 some of the worst moments. He would refer me to 1:43:27.320 --> 1:43:30.960 other entities of the organization for support. They would give 1:43:31.000 --> 1:43:33.200 me referrals to how to give me books to take 1:43:33.240 --> 1:43:36.400 my mind out of places, refer me to places that 1:43:36.439 --> 1:43:39.400 would give us papers and pen people would help us 1:43:39.400 --> 1:43:41.040 with laws and stuff we didn't understand. 1:43:41.040 --> 1:43:41.959 Senless copies. 1:43:42.320 --> 1:43:42.559 You know. 1:43:42.720 --> 1:43:46.680 It was just really a platform for making you a 1:43:46.720 --> 1:43:50.760 stronger individual in an awful situation. And for that I 1:43:50.800 --> 1:43:54.120 will always be grateful. And even now that I'm no 1:43:54.200 --> 1:43:58.240 longer incarcerated in CCCDCR, I get to see the fruit 1:43:58.360 --> 1:44:02.600 of the labor of everything this organization has given to 1:44:02.680 --> 1:44:05.639 the people that are behind bars, and I'm so grateful. 1:44:06.120 --> 1:44:09.400 Yeah, jail conditions in California, and I think a lot 1:44:09.400 --> 1:44:13.439 of places are like even worse than prison conditions. And 1:44:13.560 --> 1:44:15.439 I mean, I remember when I was visiting someone in 1:44:15.439 --> 1:44:19.200 the Sacramento County jail and she was excited, after multiple 1:44:19.479 --> 1:44:22.000 years in the county jail to go to federal prison. 1:44:22.080 --> 1:44:24.559 She was like over the moon that she was going 1:44:24.560 --> 1:44:28.519 to federal prison and getting out of the Sacramento County jail. 1:44:29.600 --> 1:44:31.840 So I was wondering if you could describe the conditions 1:44:32.160 --> 1:44:35.160 in the Presno County jail and how we fixed them, 1:44:35.280 --> 1:44:37.080 or at least how they kind of mickey moused it 1:44:37.160 --> 1:44:39.640 for the entire time that you were there, just so 1:44:39.680 --> 1:44:40.920 that this wouldn't happen again. 1:44:41.600 --> 1:44:43.200 So I was incarcerated. 1:44:43.240 --> 1:44:45.679 I went back for recentence, you know, my life sentence, 1:44:46.320 --> 1:44:51.519 and that Fresnel County Jail is horrible. It's interested people 1:44:51.520 --> 1:44:55.519 are dying daily. If you have nobody, you have nothing. 1:44:56.280 --> 1:44:59.439 It was really sad. I asked Collins and I walked 1:44:59.479 --> 1:45:03.680 to get involve. So when short time came, they had 1:45:03.720 --> 1:45:06.880 put in to get some funny to help. 1:45:07.080 --> 1:45:08.440 People didn't have hygiens. 1:45:09.000 --> 1:45:13.439 It was very stinky and nasty, so they donated through me, 1:45:13.920 --> 1:45:19.280 and I bought the girls their hygiens, shut pools, conditioners, 1:45:20.200 --> 1:45:22.280 two pays. 1:45:21.800 --> 1:45:22.839 Bought guys of snacks. 1:45:22.840 --> 1:45:26.920 I made them all little care packs, and I got 1:45:26.960 --> 1:45:30.679 to see a small amount of women in my pod 1:45:31.640 --> 1:45:37.080 spring to life, all because the organization cared. All because 1:45:37.120 --> 1:45:40.599 somebody researched their heart and did a little something different. 1:45:41.240 --> 1:45:44.880 It made such a difference, like they really all wanted 1:45:44.920 --> 1:45:47.240 to be involved, like how do I get involved with this? 1:45:47.800 --> 1:45:50.160 But I left shortly after this all. 1:45:50.000 --> 1:45:52.639 Happened, so we didn't really get to click it in 1:45:52.880 --> 1:45:55.519 because using the phone and stuff in there is not 1:45:55.680 --> 1:45:58.240 like being in prison. People are dying to get out 1:45:58.280 --> 1:46:01.519 of county jail. I mean people are actually dying in 1:46:01.560 --> 1:46:05.840 their cells. One lady was left to fester in her 1:46:05.880 --> 1:46:09.479 infestations of cysts and stuff she had all over her body. 1:46:09.640 --> 1:46:12.320 She sped another lady in there that actually went out 1:46:12.600 --> 1:46:16.639 long responsive because they said nothing was along with her, 1:46:17.000 --> 1:46:20.080 and yet she had an internal disease she had been 1:46:20.080 --> 1:46:22.559 living with all her life and they would not help her. 1:46:23.439 --> 1:46:24.960 And because I don't know a lot, I'm not going 1:46:25.040 --> 1:46:27.680 to name anything or anyone. I just know I was 1:46:27.720 --> 1:46:31.800 a part of the situation. We were denied meals. Sometimes 1:46:32.040 --> 1:46:36.320 you were too late, you didn't come. People were denying meds. 1:46:36.720 --> 1:46:37.760 You should have been there. 1:46:38.040 --> 1:46:39.439 People who couldn't even. 1:46:39.240 --> 1:46:43.320 Walk and they had no medical assistance. People who were kicking, 1:46:43.920 --> 1:46:46.960 as we know, to kick alcohol or hang on or 1:46:47.080 --> 1:46:50.160 crystal can be deadly. All they would do is bring 1:46:50.240 --> 1:46:53.200 them gatorade, one cup in the middle of the night. 1:46:53.600 --> 1:46:57.439 But these people were throwing up their guts, throwing up blood. 1:46:57.720 --> 1:47:00.479 It was crazy. It was really sad in there. 1:47:00.800 --> 1:47:04.280 But like I said, the one moment of joy was 1:47:04.280 --> 1:47:09.320 when I came in. I came in and they literally 1:47:09.960 --> 1:47:15.120 contributed to making it a better environment for us. 1:47:15.240 --> 1:47:18.960 And we did something with that jail that in activist 1:47:19.120 --> 1:47:22.920 vernacular or organizing vernacular, you could call it a phone 1:47:23.040 --> 1:47:25.320 zop or like a distribute distributed action. 1:47:25.840 --> 1:47:26.040 Yeah. 1:47:26.200 --> 1:47:30.120 So do you remember what our demands were with the jail. 1:47:30.240 --> 1:47:32.720 I think we had like four or five and they did. 1:47:32.760 --> 1:47:33.800 They did most of them. 1:47:34.200 --> 1:47:36.960 I know one was with medical. It's been so long 1:47:37.000 --> 1:47:39.720 I don't quite remember everything. So, but I know the 1:47:39.760 --> 1:47:41.880 girls who were able to kyle all walk and file 1:47:42.000 --> 1:47:45.200 complaints or tell people about what was happening with them, 1:47:45.600 --> 1:47:49.439 and they would, you know, give them resources and help 1:47:49.520 --> 1:47:52.720 them out the best they could. Women started filing grievouses 1:47:52.880 --> 1:47:56.880 because they were actually being able to receive information that 1:47:56.920 --> 1:47:57.639 would help them. 1:47:58.360 --> 1:48:00.840 Yeah. I just found what we won by the we 1:48:00.880 --> 1:48:04.439 won a violent guard transferred from that unit. Undoubtedly they 1:48:04.439 --> 1:48:06.920 were just transferred to another unit and then move back later. 1:48:07.439 --> 1:48:11.920 Increased access to showers in clean water, provided mental health care, 1:48:12.320 --> 1:48:15.800 put in repair work orders for showers and the television, 1:48:15.920 --> 1:48:20.800 and provided grievance forms all that from just like what 1:48:20.840 --> 1:48:24.040 I have to assume was like the Fresno County jails, 1:48:24.120 --> 1:48:28.560 like first serious encounter with like public anger and scrutiny 1:48:28.640 --> 1:48:33.120 in probably years. Not that people aren't angry at them 1:48:33.400 --> 1:48:36.439 over this stuff, but like the way they just like 1:48:36.600 --> 1:48:41.440 absolutely hopped to is you know, in my experience, indicative 1:48:41.600 --> 1:48:44.519 of people just used to getting away with it and 1:48:44.560 --> 1:48:45.839 receiving very little pushback. 1:48:46.360 --> 1:48:48.360 I just wanted to say that I think it also 1:48:48.479 --> 1:48:52.840 highlights the importance of mutual aid within our movement work. 1:48:53.520 --> 1:48:58.680 You know, oftentimes in especially labor movement spaces, you hear 1:48:58.720 --> 1:49:02.960 a lot of you know, focus on quote unquote organizing 1:49:03.439 --> 1:49:07.479 without recognition of kind of like the human element and 1:49:07.560 --> 1:49:12.080 like the human connection aspect to it and how you know, 1:49:12.439 --> 1:49:16.000 in different kind of spaces, being able to break bread, 1:49:16.360 --> 1:49:21.519 or if we can provide basic needs and supplies like 1:49:21.720 --> 1:49:25.559 you know, for hygiene or you know, I remember doing COVID, 1:49:26.000 --> 1:49:30.160 being able to provide folks who were incarcerated with soap 1:49:30.960 --> 1:49:36.200 right was huge. And it's those gestures. Some people challenge 1:49:36.240 --> 1:49:40.960 that and say, well that's not really organizing, right, Yes, 1:49:41.000 --> 1:49:47.400 it is absolutely. It's recognizing our humanity, our basic needs, 1:49:47.680 --> 1:49:52.080 and showing up to try to support each other. It's 1:49:52.160 --> 1:49:56.200 not just quote unquote fighting, right and that kind of advocacy, 1:49:56.240 --> 1:50:00.439 But advocacy is also about mutual aid, and so trying 1:50:00.479 --> 1:50:03.400 to live that and making sure we're meshing that with 1:50:03.520 --> 1:50:05.240 our movement work is essential. 1:50:05.800 --> 1:50:08.120 Yeah, I wanted to emphasize that, Like, it's not like 1:50:08.120 --> 1:50:10.800 we sent some incredible amount of money to Adro when 1:50:10.800 --> 1:50:12.320 she was in Tresno kind of jail. It was like 1:50:12.320 --> 1:50:15.679 maybe one hundred bucks or like not even, and yet 1:50:15.800 --> 1:50:17.920 it was able to do a lot of stuff Autero. 1:50:17.960 --> 1:50:20.599 You do remember how much it was, well, I think. 1:50:20.479 --> 1:50:23.719 It was seventy five bora hundred. It was one of them. 1:50:23.880 --> 1:50:26.720 Yeah, So I mean that's like one small example of 1:50:26.760 --> 1:50:30.080 how like when you're doing prison solidarity, you're able to 1:50:30.160 --> 1:50:34.920 do so much, like you're able to have a tremendous 1:50:34.960 --> 1:50:38.200 impact for folks in a way that you are not 1:50:38.800 --> 1:50:42.880 able to do in any kind of organizing, at least 1:50:42.880 --> 1:50:46.280 for people in the present moment. And that is something 1:50:46.280 --> 1:50:48.320 that really attracted me to it. As just kind of 1:50:48.360 --> 1:50:52.280 a spectrum headed person. I was like, oh, this is 1:50:52.320 --> 1:50:57.479 like a very good labor cost to benefit ratio of 1:50:57.520 --> 1:50:59.240 like you can put in the same amount of work 1:50:59.320 --> 1:51:02.160 and reap like much greater benefit for a greater number 1:51:02.160 --> 1:51:06.600 of people. And that I think remains true today is 1:51:06.640 --> 1:51:11.360 something that folks should consider when considering whether prison solidarity 1:51:12.080 --> 1:51:13.479 is something that they'd like to take her in. 1:51:14.120 --> 1:51:15.080 Thank you Collins. 1:51:15.680 --> 1:51:19.439 The one thing I did remember more than anything out 1:51:19.439 --> 1:51:23.880 of Collins and their organizations coming into our county. The 1:51:23.920 --> 1:51:28.000 one thing I did see that you very get to 1:51:28.040 --> 1:51:31.599 see in and incarcerated situations was in a lot pod, 1:51:31.840 --> 1:51:35.040 a glimmer of hope. They planted a seed when they 1:51:35.280 --> 1:51:40.200 made it possible for us to fund help for people, 1:51:40.840 --> 1:51:44.439 and the next time around people were donating a little bit. 1:51:44.520 --> 1:51:45.559 People who had. 1:51:45.439 --> 1:51:49.480 More were donating to make sure those people kept things. 1:51:49.880 --> 1:51:55.440 I see unity in its greatest form with culture difference, 1:51:55.479 --> 1:52:01.000 stigma difference, race difference. Gangs didn't exist at that time. 1:52:01.320 --> 1:52:04.320 I watched us come together. We started having prayer socals, 1:52:04.800 --> 1:52:08.960 the pod became more positive, and that all started with 1:52:09.720 --> 1:52:12.360 a heartfelt seventy five to one hundred dollars. 1:52:12.840 --> 1:52:16.240 It brought people together and that never left. 1:52:16.520 --> 1:52:19.000 That never left, and I think it's the same thing 1:52:19.080 --> 1:52:22.759 in an incarceration, when you're in prison. When we build 1:52:22.800 --> 1:52:28.080 our little insight organizations and we help each other, we 1:52:28.120 --> 1:52:32.080 give hope to each other. I am so grateful to 1:52:32.160 --> 1:52:35.920 be a member of such a profound organization that believes 1:52:35.960 --> 1:52:40.240 in neighbor laws to help us be treated fairly, abolishments 1:52:40.280 --> 1:52:42.320 of institutions because know. 1:52:42.520 --> 1:52:44.720 God, they need to reap a little bit of what 1:52:44.760 --> 1:52:45.200 they sow. 1:52:46.080 --> 1:52:49.040 And a hand and a heart that says we care 1:52:49.800 --> 1:52:54.719 from across the mouth. And this organization reaches different parts 1:52:54.800 --> 1:52:57.840 of the US, so it's not from one place, it's 1:52:58.160 --> 1:53:01.160 it's a whole unit and it's I'm grateful to be 1:53:01.200 --> 1:53:02.679 a part of it right. 1:53:02.760 --> 1:53:07.160 And in fact IOWAK exists in the United States. We 1:53:07.360 --> 1:53:13.000 have interests from some lob belief in Canada, and there 1:53:13.160 --> 1:53:18.080 is also established IWALK presidents in the UK, including Northern Ireland. 1:53:29.960 --> 1:53:32.280 What does it actually look like to be doing sort 1:53:32.320 --> 1:53:35.040 of jail house long, to be helping people understand what 1:53:35.080 --> 1:53:38.320 their rights are and trying to fight for better conditions 1:53:38.360 --> 1:53:40.200 through the internal legal system. 1:53:40.760 --> 1:53:45.560 I work for the Law Library in CDCR at Chachchilla SECWF. 1:53:46.160 --> 1:53:52.120 SCCWF is the central California Women's Facility, a California women's prison. 1:53:52.320 --> 1:53:55.479 And I am what they call a jail house lawyer 1:53:55.960 --> 1:53:57.160 because I helped a few. 1:53:56.960 --> 1:53:57.759 People go home. 1:53:58.600 --> 1:54:02.120 Not that I was brilliant, just comprehend very well and 1:54:02.240 --> 1:54:05.599 I articulate very well. So by me working there, I 1:54:05.640 --> 1:54:09.759 got to learn first hand law books and penal codes 1:54:09.840 --> 1:54:15.479 and processes, and it was a wonderful thing. But it 1:54:15.520 --> 1:54:19.000 can also be a sad thing because before you know, 1:54:19.520 --> 1:54:22.439 you make a lot of mistakes, and those mistakes hurt 1:54:22.520 --> 1:54:27.320 people because people can't afford lawyers. I mean, I went 1:54:27.360 --> 1:54:29.880 in there with thirty six to life, lost all my 1:54:30.000 --> 1:54:32.360 levels of my appeal, and never thought I would ever 1:54:32.400 --> 1:54:34.560 see the light of day. I knew I would die 1:54:34.600 --> 1:54:37.200 in prison, and a lot of jail house lawyers helped me, 1:54:37.720 --> 1:54:41.240 and just it didn't happen because financially I was not 1:54:41.400 --> 1:54:44.800 able to do a lot. If it hadn't Gavin Knwsomon, 1:54:44.840 --> 1:54:48.680 we sentenced me under exemplary programming. Obviously I did a 1:54:48.680 --> 1:54:51.800 good program. I've done over one hundred and fifty years 1:54:51.840 --> 1:54:55.480 old of their groups, and I facilitate, so I work 1:54:55.600 --> 1:54:59.280 my way out. But you got documentation in there that's 1:54:59.320 --> 1:55:01.000 probably thirty years old. 1:55:01.400 --> 1:55:04.720 It doesn't even apply with the laws that are today. 1:55:05.160 --> 1:55:08.000 If we're using old documentation, the course will rejecting them 1:55:08.000 --> 1:55:10.720 because they have the wrong paperwork. A lot of things 1:55:10.760 --> 1:55:13.880 had been happening until some of us started six oh 1:55:13.920 --> 1:55:16.880 two een, like we need the right paperwork. We started 1:55:16.880 --> 1:55:20.840 fighting for that, and we started getting it, and people 1:55:20.840 --> 1:55:23.360 are now being able to see a glimmer of hope. 1:55:23.400 --> 1:55:26.120 It's all about for me, It's about the fight. How 1:55:26.120 --> 1:55:27.040 bad do you want it? 1:55:27.480 --> 1:55:27.680 You know? 1:55:27.760 --> 1:55:29.760 I know what I would do to throw my life away? 1:55:30.200 --> 1:55:32.960 What would I do to have my life back? You know, 1:55:33.520 --> 1:55:37.040 after I've yeah worked it out. The same energy you 1:55:37.120 --> 1:55:41.120 put into it, It's the same energy you got to 1:55:41.120 --> 1:55:42.480 put it into it to get out of it. 1:55:42.520 --> 1:55:45.080 If not a little bit more, did you talk a 1:55:45.080 --> 1:55:47.720 little bit more about how you went about actually getting 1:55:47.720 --> 1:55:51.160 the correct copies of the legal code, because that seems 1:55:51.200 --> 1:55:52.520 like just an absolute nightmare. 1:55:53.000 --> 1:55:53.960 No, it is a nightmare. 1:55:54.120 --> 1:55:57.480 When I first started, I had two incarcerations, two life sentences. 1:55:57.760 --> 1:55:59.440 I just beat my second life sentences. 1:55:59.680 --> 1:56:02.240 I was a three striker first, and at that time, 1:56:02.240 --> 1:56:03.960 they didn't have a lot of paper and there was 1:56:04.000 --> 1:56:06.120 a lot of Rigoro war going on because of the 1:56:06.200 --> 1:56:10.480 law was so inadically we put together just. 1:56:10.480 --> 1:56:13.880 To please the people of the US, but not to 1:56:13.960 --> 1:56:15.760 be fair all the way around. 1:56:15.800 --> 1:56:18.879 A lot of people were getting life sentences for slices 1:56:18.920 --> 1:56:21.960 of pizza and hawk dolls, and you know, and I 1:56:22.120 --> 1:56:24.600 was one of those people, don't get me wrong. So 1:56:25.200 --> 1:56:26.920 at that time, there was not a lot a lot 1:56:26.920 --> 1:56:32.280 of legal paperwork. The paperwork was so outdated they were 1:56:32.360 --> 1:56:35.440 giving us and people started we started filing the pills. 1:56:35.480 --> 1:56:38.680 Hey, we have a right to the right paperwork. How 1:56:38.720 --> 1:56:39.520 am I gonna get home? 1:56:39.680 --> 1:56:39.840 Yeah? 1:56:39.960 --> 1:56:41.600 If I don't, I'm a fight if I don't have 1:56:41.640 --> 1:56:42.600 the right forms. 1:56:42.320 --> 1:56:42.760 To fight with. 1:56:43.240 --> 1:56:47.560 Or we would organizations would printice paperwork. 1:56:47.040 --> 1:56:48.880 Out that we wrote out to. 1:56:48.880 --> 1:56:50.640 And they would send us the right one in and 1:56:50.680 --> 1:56:54.200 we would make copies in our own self at ten 1:56:54.280 --> 1:56:57.400 cents of copy and put change the copy that they 1:56:57.520 --> 1:57:00.400 used to copy the copy and the original would be in. 1:57:00.480 --> 1:57:02.480 It was a lot of scheme in and scamming, but 1:57:02.560 --> 1:57:04.640 it was worth it because we were starting to go home. 1:57:05.480 --> 1:57:08.440 The paperwork was being updated. You know, they had a 1:57:08.480 --> 1:57:11.760 lawsuit because they did have the right paperwork. They really 1:57:11.760 --> 1:57:15.560 started up dating then because we had some legal monros, 1:57:15.640 --> 1:57:15.880 you know. 1:57:15.920 --> 1:57:17.760 Lawyers go to prison too. 1:57:20.800 --> 1:57:23.640 So if I'm understanding this right, are you saying that 1:57:23.520 --> 1:57:25.720 they had the right paperwork they were just giving you 1:57:25.760 --> 1:57:26.320 the old one. 1:57:26.680 --> 1:57:30.200 No, they had the wrong paperwork. So we were sending 1:57:30.240 --> 1:57:32.520 out for the right paperwork, throwing away to old paper 1:57:32.560 --> 1:57:35.840 work and sliding the right paperwork in the clerks that 1:57:35.920 --> 1:57:36.920 worked at the lawbrary. 1:57:37.040 --> 1:57:38.520 We would do anything to make sure. 1:57:38.480 --> 1:57:39.600 We can go home, you know. 1:57:39.840 --> 1:57:42.680 Yeah, I mean, but like I said, we had people who. 1:57:42.560 --> 1:57:44.760 Used to be lawyers. I mean, if we had to 1:57:44.760 --> 1:57:45.440 wait a little bit. 1:57:45.400 --> 1:57:47.160 Longer, we could have had a president I don't know, 1:57:48.400 --> 1:57:51.520 before going to prison these days. 1:57:51.800 --> 1:57:52.840 Yeah, so, you. 1:57:52.800 --> 1:57:55.480 Know, but it was just that you had to have 1:57:55.520 --> 1:57:58.920 a will to be a success, and it took organizations 1:57:58.960 --> 1:57:59.800 like eye walk. 1:57:59.640 --> 1:58:02.000 It when I was there. I need a certain paperwork 1:58:02.160 --> 1:58:04.720 and college will look it up and reference for and 1:58:04.840 --> 1:58:07.360 send it to me, you know, legal. 1:58:07.040 --> 1:58:10.240 Paperwork that would help us whether we were fighting for 1:58:10.400 --> 1:58:13.360 our jobs, not paying us right, or we can't get 1:58:13.360 --> 1:58:16.200 a hold of this paperwork for us to be free. 1:58:16.880 --> 1:58:19.800 He would send it and I would spread it like fire, 1:58:20.240 --> 1:58:20.440 you know. 1:58:21.240 --> 1:58:24.680 Once she I'm a clerk, I make a hundred copies 1:58:24.720 --> 1:58:30.080 hoping I don't get caught. You know, it is what 1:58:30.160 --> 1:58:34.680 it is, and just trying to say why that was important. 1:58:35.240 --> 1:58:38.360 But I'm wanted this thing talking. I really want to 1:58:38.400 --> 1:58:44.280 hear Gigi's aspect, because she is like so superheroes. She's 1:58:44.440 --> 1:58:49.200 a great human being and she fights for incarcerated inmates, 1:58:49.240 --> 1:58:52.280 and she fights for labor rights, and she fights for 1:58:52.360 --> 1:58:55.600 her organization, and she fights for everything. And I would 1:58:55.680 --> 1:58:57.760 really like to hear her. I haven't heard her much. 1:58:58.120 --> 1:58:59.600 I don't like to hear her side. 1:59:00.160 --> 1:59:04.200 All think you wants. You are incredible, and I just 1:59:04.320 --> 1:59:08.000 I just want to listen to you, and you are, 1:59:08.520 --> 1:59:10.720 you know, the one that we are taking notes from. 1:59:10.880 --> 1:59:14.560 So thank you for everything that you do and everything 1:59:14.560 --> 1:59:17.480 that you did while incarcerated and everything that you're doing now. 1:59:18.040 --> 1:59:20.240 Just so just so you know that we are all 1:59:20.280 --> 1:59:21.160 inspired by you. 1:59:21.280 --> 1:59:22.600 Always thank you. 1:59:23.400 --> 1:59:27.120 I you know, as someone who has been in the 1:59:27.200 --> 1:59:28.680 legal field for many. 1:59:28.520 --> 1:59:36.360 Years, you really the more you're around legal professionals, specifically lawyers, 1:59:37.080 --> 1:59:42.800 you learn how little they actually do. I think a 1:59:42.840 --> 1:59:46.160 lot of the times are perception of civil rights and 1:59:46.760 --> 1:59:47.840 just movement work. 1:59:48.080 --> 1:59:51.240 We think of lawyers. We think of big organizations right 1:59:51.280 --> 1:59:54.640 that have been you know, those big gains in the courts, 1:59:55.000 --> 1:59:59.360 But the reality is that the real work happens on 1:59:59.440 --> 2:00:04.720 the ground, grassroots, and so in the case of our 2:00:05.640 --> 2:00:12.000 prisoner movement, it happens behind those bars, behind those concrete walls. 2:00:12.040 --> 2:00:15.400 And when it comes to the most vulnerable, as you 2:00:15.520 --> 2:00:19.560 kind of go down right in terms of how impacted 2:00:19.600 --> 2:00:23.920 folks are, there are less and less lawyers that are 2:00:24.000 --> 2:00:28.800 willing to do their work, and definitely less that are 2:00:28.840 --> 2:00:32.960 even able to. They just don't bother, you know. And 2:00:33.040 --> 2:00:37.320 so what you really see when it comes to jail 2:00:37.400 --> 2:00:43.560 health lawyers is that they said, we can't depend on 2:00:43.680 --> 2:00:49.240 these privileged class of people to fight for us, let 2:00:49.280 --> 2:00:55.680 alone free us. So they taken it into their own hands. 2:00:56.280 --> 2:01:00.120 And that's why it's such an honor for organizations like 2:01:00.360 --> 2:01:04.520 Eyewalk and our members to be able to support in 2:01:04.640 --> 2:01:10.840 that hands on participatory defense model, where it truly is 2:01:11.000 --> 2:01:15.520 about it's understanding that our liberation will not come from 2:01:15.560 --> 2:01:18.760 external hands. It will come, you know, internally, it will 2:01:18.800 --> 2:01:23.560 come from us who are impacted, and so supporting each 2:01:23.560 --> 2:01:27.080 other is what is going to make the difference. 2:01:27.360 --> 2:01:29.280 And I sound so simple, but. 2:01:29.280 --> 2:01:33.960 Sometimes it looks like sending in a book an article, 2:01:34.600 --> 2:01:39.520 pulling up supporting evidence that someone can use, right, doing 2:01:39.560 --> 2:01:42.960 some research and sending it in. And California has the 2:01:43.080 --> 2:01:46.680 Racial Justice Act, which is opening a pathway for a 2:01:46.680 --> 2:01:51.240 lot of folks to reopen their cases and have some 2:01:51.280 --> 2:01:54.040 resentencing done. And a lot of folks are, you know, 2:01:54.640 --> 2:01:58.560 being free now because of that legislation, And so you know, 2:01:58.600 --> 2:02:01.280 how can we support in that way? But also I 2:02:01.600 --> 2:02:05.680 always go back to building the relationship with the folks inside, 2:02:06.120 --> 2:02:10.000 because sometimes it looks like writing a letter of support 2:02:10.640 --> 2:02:14.960 for folks. I mean, you can tell when someone writes 2:02:15.000 --> 2:02:18.240 a letter that didn't have a relationship with the person 2:02:18.280 --> 2:02:21.040 who needs a letter, right, But the opposite is also true. 2:02:21.240 --> 2:02:25.120 You can really tell when someone actually has a relationship 2:02:25.120 --> 2:02:28.000 with that person. It comes to life what you're writing 2:02:28.520 --> 2:02:34.520 and you feel that connection, right. So truly building those relationships, 2:02:34.600 --> 2:02:40.480 those friendships use some of our comrades inside. I bigger 2:02:40.600 --> 2:02:42.960 with and we fight and we make up, you know, 2:02:43.400 --> 2:02:45.320 and we're there for the ups and downs, and we'll 2:02:45.360 --> 2:02:48.520 give each other advice. And it's true friendships that we 2:02:48.680 --> 2:02:50.240 built behind those walls. 2:02:50.240 --> 2:02:53.440 And that alone is also a form of radical love 2:02:53.760 --> 2:02:57.400 and a radical part of this movement to form those 2:02:57.440 --> 2:03:02.040 bonds with those who the system tried to bury alive, 2:03:03.040 --> 2:03:08.120 and circling back to jail house lawyers and how our 2:03:08.120 --> 2:03:10.360 incarcerated neighbors have taken. 2:03:10.640 --> 2:03:15.440 Control and a lead of their own defense. How important 2:03:15.560 --> 2:03:19.440 it is for us to be plugged in on the 2:03:19.560 --> 2:03:24.520 outside to different advances or regressions when it comes to 2:03:24.560 --> 2:03:29.320 the legal system, because oftentimes we need to recognize that 2:03:29.520 --> 2:03:33.080 to be able to ignore policy, to be able to 2:03:33.160 --> 2:03:36.560 ignore what's happening in the streets, is a tremendous privilege. 2:03:36.960 --> 2:03:40.200 It's not impacting you when you are impacted. You cannot 2:03:40.240 --> 2:03:44.000 ignore what's happening around you because it's happening to you, right. 2:03:45.080 --> 2:03:48.000 And so for us, if we feel like we're not impacted, 2:03:48.440 --> 2:03:51.160 even though we are, because it's all interconnected struggle, right. 2:03:51.600 --> 2:03:54.600 But if we feel like maybe we don't need to 2:03:54.600 --> 2:04:01.040 pay attention to struggles or advancements that could be used 2:04:01.080 --> 2:04:06.560 by people inside, then we're really privileged and we're failing 2:04:06.920 --> 2:04:10.120 are our neighbors inside. So I just hope that we 2:04:10.160 --> 2:04:13.200 can recognize that and understand that it is an obligation 2:04:13.320 --> 2:04:18.680 of ours to move through life in a way that 2:04:19.040 --> 2:04:23.400 is thoughtful of those who who could use our support 2:04:23.480 --> 2:04:26.440 and who we could empower because they don't have the 2:04:26.480 --> 2:04:31.360 same access to that information or the resources. And so 2:04:31.800 --> 2:04:35.080 in many ways, that's what I walked us. And there's 2:04:35.160 --> 2:04:37.880 just something so powerful about getting out a piece of 2:04:37.960 --> 2:04:42.240 paper and pen and writing a handwriting letter, stuffing an 2:04:42.400 --> 2:04:47.040 envelope with literature with zine, or sending a book inside 2:04:47.440 --> 2:04:51.320 and putting that stamp on the envelope. It feels like 2:04:51.360 --> 2:04:54.400 a material manifestation of your solidarity. 2:04:55.280 --> 2:04:56.960 Oh oh no, that was awesome. 2:04:58.280 --> 2:05:03.880 Yeah, it's okay. I'd like to dig into some details 2:05:03.920 --> 2:05:07.760 on the sort of state of the civil rights liberalism 2:05:08.240 --> 2:05:10.760 as we know it here in California, because I think 2:05:10.840 --> 2:05:14.240 like we glossed over certain things that I'd like to 2:05:14.280 --> 2:05:17.800 clarify are not acts of benevolence on the part of 2:05:17.840 --> 2:05:20.600 the state and are in fact acts of just kind 2:05:20.600 --> 2:05:23.440 of like self glazing on their part, and like things 2:05:23.440 --> 2:05:25.080 that they do to sort of pat themselves on the 2:05:25.160 --> 2:05:28.800 back and then move on. So, I mean, first of all, 2:05:28.840 --> 2:05:33.040 Audra mentioned that Gavin Newsim had something to do with 2:05:33.080 --> 2:05:35.680 her release. I just wanted to circle back to that 2:05:35.960 --> 2:05:39.000 and point out that he's also completely screwed over some 2:05:39.080 --> 2:05:41.400 of our members, like gone completely out of his way 2:05:41.840 --> 2:05:45.200 to use his like what it's basically like a veto 2:05:45.360 --> 2:05:48.200 power over parole that should not exist, and it's just 2:05:48.280 --> 2:05:52.480 like set up to yeah, create like me. I mean, like, 2:05:52.720 --> 2:05:56.080 this is how Gavin Newsim does everything in California. He's like, 2:05:56.360 --> 2:05:58.240 if I'm going to either take an action or not 2:05:58.280 --> 2:06:01.760 take an action as governor, is there any possibility that 2:06:01.800 --> 2:06:05.400 my action or inaction could make me look bad later 2:06:05.480 --> 2:06:07.480 on the national stage to people that are not my 2:06:07.520 --> 2:06:10.640 current constituents when I'm running for president. And he always 2:06:10.680 --> 2:06:14.360 does what he thinks is going to create the least 2:06:14.440 --> 2:06:16.800 risk and make him look good to a national audience 2:06:16.880 --> 2:06:20.440 rather than to his current constituents. And that is pretty 2:06:20.440 --> 2:06:22.879 clearly what happened with another one of our members recently. 2:06:22.960 --> 2:06:24.120 So yeah, fuck Evan Newsom. 2:06:24.240 --> 2:06:27.080 Actually, why does he even have the power to overratee 2:06:27.080 --> 2:06:27.480 the parole? 2:06:27.840 --> 2:06:29.280 Why does it even exist? 2:06:29.640 --> 2:06:30.440 That's absurd. 2:06:31.360 --> 2:06:33.720 I don't know. Yeah, you'd have to talk to some 2:06:33.760 --> 2:06:37.800 sort of like California constitutional historian to learn that. 2:06:38.360 --> 2:06:39.000 Yeah. 2:06:39.360 --> 2:06:40.800 The other thing I want to talk about was this 2:06:40.920 --> 2:06:44.200 Racial Justice Act thing. So this is something that on 2:06:44.320 --> 2:06:46.920 its surface, it sounds really radical. So first what they 2:06:46.920 --> 2:06:49.840 did was like in twenty twenty when as we all 2:06:49.880 --> 2:06:53.440 know nothing in particular was happening. They passed this law 2:06:53.520 --> 2:06:55.640 called the Racial Justice Hack that was like, hey, if 2:06:55.680 --> 2:07:00.920 you're convicted, but it was like due to racial animus 2:07:01.040 --> 2:07:03.680 or like the length of the sentence perhaps, and if not, 2:07:03.720 --> 2:07:07.360 the conviction itself is due to like a racial bias. 2:07:06.840 --> 2:07:09.800 You can you can try to prove that or not 2:07:09.880 --> 2:07:11.880 prove it, but like do what's called a prime at 2:07:11.880 --> 2:07:13.760 fates are showing, which is like the lowest level of 2:07:13.880 --> 2:07:17.440 you know, demonstrating something in court, and then we'll just 2:07:17.440 --> 2:07:19.440 like let you go based on that alone. Right, So 2:07:19.440 --> 2:07:20.680 that's wow, what are you radical? 2:07:20.760 --> 2:07:20.880 Right? 2:07:20.920 --> 2:07:23.760 Okay, So a couple things. First of all, that was 2:07:23.800 --> 2:07:27.080 only from the future on herd, so that was not retroactive. 2:07:27.240 --> 2:07:29.360 But later there was outcry about that, and so they 2:07:29.680 --> 2:07:31.200 came back and were like, oh okay, yeah, all the 2:07:31.240 --> 2:07:33.320 people in prison now can do it too. So the 2:07:33.360 --> 2:07:34.760 thing is this is also the kind of thing that 2:07:34.800 --> 2:07:36.040 can like overwhelm the courts. 2:07:36.120 --> 2:07:36.280 Right. 2:07:36.840 --> 2:07:39.880 So like the way that this is being done in 2:07:39.920 --> 2:07:43.600 practice is like you get one shot at this. Ever, yeah, 2:07:44.160 --> 2:07:47.920 as I understand it, And just like appeals, you get 2:07:47.920 --> 2:07:50.200 different amounts of appeals I think based on the conviction. 2:07:50.520 --> 2:07:53.400 But like basically if you fuck it up, like you're done, 2:07:53.880 --> 2:07:56.600 because the courts are limited in their capacity and need 2:07:56.720 --> 2:07:59.000 to be able to move on to hear other people's saying, 2:07:59.280 --> 2:08:02.200 and of course will file it and it's it's not good, 2:08:02.240 --> 2:08:05.440 it's not done well. And like the infrastructure to violate 2:08:05.440 --> 2:08:09.440 your rights is like better funded all the time. Meanwhile, 2:08:09.440 --> 2:08:12.960 the institutions to like defend your rights are typically not 2:08:13.200 --> 2:08:16.720 publicly funded at all outside of like the court's proper 2:08:17.320 --> 2:08:21.600 and you know, maybe there's certain government agencies in some states. 2:08:21.920 --> 2:08:25.840 But then like private civil rights attorneys are who have 2:08:25.960 --> 2:08:28.720 the option to be kind of the real civil rights defenders, 2:08:28.840 --> 2:08:31.920 and they get funded based on like court fees that 2:08:31.960 --> 2:08:34.880 are like set by the government. Right, and so the 2:08:34.920 --> 2:08:40.080 government like creates these systems where you know, the legislature 2:08:40.200 --> 2:08:43.680 essentially has the power to decide how much money a 2:08:43.720 --> 2:08:47.000 civil rights lawyer is going to be able to get 2:08:47.040 --> 2:08:50.520 practicing civil rights law by like suing the cops and stuff. 2:08:51.360 --> 2:08:55.720 In California and probably elsewhere, it's already like been settled 2:08:55.840 --> 2:08:59.360 that like if you do a civil rights case for 2:08:59.480 --> 2:09:02.400 something happening on the street, and then you do the 2:09:02.440 --> 2:09:04.560 same civil rights case for like the same thing happening 2:09:04.560 --> 2:09:07.160 to people in prison, you're gonna make less money when 2:09:07.160 --> 2:09:11.120 it occurred in prison, basically. And you know, maybe some 2:09:11.320 --> 2:09:16.360 legal person has a finer, you know, detailed analysis of 2:09:16.400 --> 2:09:19.880 that than what I just said, But that's essentially my understanding. 2:09:19.920 --> 2:09:22.480 And I did work for for some attorneys who practice 2:09:22.560 --> 2:09:25.520 is kind of law at one point, so that is 2:09:26.520 --> 2:09:30.160 pretty egregious, yea, And yeah, I mean I think that, like, 2:09:30.280 --> 2:09:32.560 there's there's a lot of stuff in the kind of 2:09:32.640 --> 2:09:36.400 abolitionist sphere that is really kind of like nails on 2:09:36.440 --> 2:09:39.120 a chalkboard to me. And I think a lot of 2:09:39.160 --> 2:09:41.640 other people who tend to take a more like radical 2:09:41.760 --> 2:09:44.280 yet like radical in the long run, yet day to 2:09:44.360 --> 2:09:47.120 day pragmatic approach. I mean one of those things is 2:09:47.200 --> 2:09:51.360 like the nonprofit route basically, or like the five oh 2:09:51.360 --> 2:09:54.120 one C three route, where you you know, staff up 2:09:54.440 --> 2:09:57.840 hire a bunch of people. If you started out, you know, 2:09:57.920 --> 2:10:00.400 being in the same class as the people who are 2:10:00.440 --> 2:10:03.080 in prison, you like quickly propel yourself out of that 2:10:03.160 --> 2:10:07.560 class by doing this if you're successful, and then like 2:10:07.600 --> 2:10:10.640 things deteriorate from there as far as relationships go with 2:10:10.760 --> 2:10:13.880 people who are impacted. And then the other thing is 2:10:13.960 --> 2:10:17.360 like there's this strain of abolitionists who are like, well, 2:10:17.360 --> 2:10:21.960 we're the truest abolitionists because we just believe in like 2:10:22.040 --> 2:10:26.400 infinite second chances basically, and so like we sometimes get 2:10:26.480 --> 2:10:29.120 questions of like, how are you different from other abolitionist groups. 2:10:29.320 --> 2:10:31.320 So I would say, yeah, like a, we're not afraid 2:10:31.320 --> 2:10:33.360 to like pick people out. But it's like you behave badly. 2:10:34.240 --> 2:10:39.320 I walk like you're talking, like you're out, Like that's 2:10:39.320 --> 2:10:41.680 not the same as throwing someone in prison. All that 2:10:41.760 --> 2:10:43.040 people will make that equivalence. 2:10:43.520 --> 2:10:46.760 I love this, but I do have to go. I 2:10:46.800 --> 2:10:49.080 appreciate you guys allowing me a chance to speak. 2:10:49.280 --> 2:10:50.600 Thank you so much for doing this. 2:10:50.960 --> 2:10:55.880 I appreciate callings, your support. I appreciate your support for 2:10:55.920 --> 2:10:57.320 allowness on your podcast. 2:10:58.200 --> 2:10:59.480 I would just want to say one thing. 2:10:59.520 --> 2:11:02.560 When I was in incarcerated, I would write and Collins 2:11:02.560 --> 2:11:05.480 help me start me a little website because I would 2:11:05.480 --> 2:11:08.880 write my emotions. I don't know if I can leak 2:11:08.960 --> 2:11:11.400 that website. Can I say what that website is? In 2:11:11.440 --> 2:11:13.040 case you guys want to look at it. 2:11:13.040 --> 2:11:15.840 It's your website, Okay, thank you. 2:11:16.760 --> 2:11:21.760 It's adras A U d r A S Real thoughts 2:11:22.040 --> 2:11:26.280 r e A L thoughts with the s dot WordPress 2:11:26.320 --> 2:11:30.480 dot com and it talks about my trauma, my prison 2:11:30.520 --> 2:11:33.280 life and everything. It has pictures and everything, And it 2:11:33.320 --> 2:11:35.839 would not be possible if it was not for Collins. 2:11:36.280 --> 2:11:38.680 It was my way of forming a support group from 2:11:38.920 --> 2:11:41.680 inside out. But I have to go because I do 2:11:41.800 --> 2:11:42.520 have somewhere. 2:11:42.280 --> 2:11:42.720 Else to be. 2:11:42.880 --> 2:11:44.080 It's been great having me here. A. 2:11:45.240 --> 2:11:47.520 Yeah, it's been it's been amazing having you here. I 2:11:47.600 --> 2:11:48.600 really appreciate it. 2:11:48.760 --> 2:11:52.960 Yeah, I love Gg Collins. Thank you guys so much. 2:11:53.040 --> 2:11:56.120 I'll talk to you later if you're comfortable with the 2:11:56.840 --> 2:11:58.760 only if you're comfortable with it before you go, do 2:11:58.760 --> 2:12:02.000 you want to tell me and the audience what your 2:12:02.160 --> 2:12:04.760 third strike was? Allegedly yes. 2:12:05.200 --> 2:12:11.200 I was sentenced in nineteen ninety four for sales of 2:12:11.320 --> 2:12:15.200 a twenty dollars piece of cocaine, and I was given 2:12:15.280 --> 2:12:19.040 twenty five to life plus a five year enhancement. This one, 2:12:19.320 --> 2:12:23.320 I was sentenced to thirty six to life for second 2:12:23.400 --> 2:12:26.680 degree robbery. A lady say I robbed her while she 2:12:26.880 --> 2:12:30.280 was with her child, and then she recanted that story 2:12:30.400 --> 2:12:34.520 in court. I still was sentenced to thirty six to 2:12:34.560 --> 2:12:38.840 life because she couldn't find her forty dollars that she lost. 2:12:39.400 --> 2:12:42.440 There's a lot behind it. Actually, me and my partner 2:12:42.480 --> 2:12:44.320 at the time were co defendants. 2:12:44.480 --> 2:12:45.680 He was let off. 2:12:45.640 --> 2:12:48.640 Because he hadn't been in trouble in California, which was 2:12:48.680 --> 2:12:51.240 a good thing because he really was innocent. But I 2:12:51.320 --> 2:12:53.720 had to spend almost sixteen years on my life in 2:12:53.760 --> 2:12:57.000 prison for a crime I did not commit. It has 2:12:57.080 --> 2:13:00.280 its pros and as cons I'm a better Hue human 2:13:00.280 --> 2:13:03.440 being today, not because of CDCR, but because of me 2:13:03.640 --> 2:13:07.080 and the support system that I had while incarcerated in CDC, 2:13:07.640 --> 2:13:10.000 and it just made me a stronger person. They say, 2:13:10.040 --> 2:13:12.400 if it doesn't break you, it'll only make you stronger. 2:13:13.000 --> 2:13:16.560 So for anybody out there in the incarcerated world, don't 2:13:16.560 --> 2:13:18.960 give up, because if this doesn't break you, it will 2:13:18.960 --> 2:13:21.560 only make you stronger and you. 2:13:21.600 --> 2:13:23.200 Will get out because I did. 2:13:23.520 --> 2:13:25.800 And it's not always by the means that we think 2:13:25.840 --> 2:13:28.840 it will be, but when it's time, it happens. I've 2:13:28.960 --> 2:13:31.240 lived in the system long and I've lived a life 2:13:31.520 --> 2:13:34.920 span as a human being. I've spent more time incarcerated 2:13:35.200 --> 2:13:40.160 for little stupid things. No murders, no mayhems, no beatups, 2:13:40.320 --> 2:13:44.000 no DUIs, no nothing, none of nothing like that. 2:13:44.240 --> 2:13:47.360 Ye thinks that no one should ever. 2:13:47.120 --> 2:13:50.840 See prison walls behind, but I did, And like I said, 2:13:51.280 --> 2:13:54.360 I was made the stronger because of organizations like you 2:13:54.400 --> 2:13:57.720 who support me. There were others, but you guys were 2:13:57.760 --> 2:13:59.040 the most impact in my life. 2:13:59.160 --> 2:14:01.520 You came in my life like a whirl win and 2:14:01.560 --> 2:14:04.480 you straightened everything. I helped me straighten my thoughts out 2:14:04.480 --> 2:14:04.920 in my life. 2:14:04.920 --> 2:14:07.800 You helped me in many ways because you didn't come in, 2:14:08.360 --> 2:14:11.720 get overwhelmed and take off. You stayed the long call. 2:14:12.040 --> 2:14:15.320 Your organization is not an organization that quits. 2:14:15.560 --> 2:14:16.920 It's we're gonna get some. 2:14:16.840 --> 2:14:19.080 More to help us fight type of thing going on. 2:14:19.440 --> 2:14:21.640 And there's not a lot of organizations like that. They 2:14:21.680 --> 2:14:23.800 get overwhelmed. It's too much going on. We ain't got 2:14:23.880 --> 2:14:27.200 enough manpower. You guys only had people and you were 2:14:27.240 --> 2:14:30.560 making movements. And I don't understand correctly. I think you 2:14:30.600 --> 2:14:32.920 guys wrote a letter for a friend and supported her 2:14:33.200 --> 2:14:33.839 through board. 2:14:34.440 --> 2:14:36.360 Now she's out in the free world, you know what 2:14:36.400 --> 2:14:36.840 I'm saying. 2:14:37.160 --> 2:14:40.360 So you guys change lives because you don't give up 2:14:40.440 --> 2:14:43.360 on life. And for that, I hope you guys be 2:14:43.440 --> 2:14:46.720 around one hundred thousand years from now and I'll always 2:14:46.840 --> 2:14:47.400 be a member. 2:14:47.760 --> 2:14:48.960 You guys have a great thing. 2:14:50.040 --> 2:14:53.520 Luckily prisons aren't around for one hundred thousand years. But 2:14:53.800 --> 2:14:55.320 we love the odra help. 2:14:55.360 --> 2:15:05.839 Yah. 2:15:06.320 --> 2:15:08.400 I just want to add when I clarified, like about 2:15:08.400 --> 2:15:10.200 the Racial Justice Act, I don't want to. 2:15:10.720 --> 2:15:13.520 You know, applaud it as a victory of the system, 2:15:13.680 --> 2:15:17.360 like they're not really victories when the systems will exist, right, 2:15:17.520 --> 2:15:20.200 But I just want to say that it is still 2:15:20.240 --> 2:15:21.760 our duty to know when we. 2:15:21.880 --> 2:15:26.440 Can find those little kind of avenues for some momentary 2:15:26.480 --> 2:15:29.400 reprie for some people, and that can look like some 2:15:29.520 --> 2:15:34.120 creative ways. During COVID, we actually created hundreds of pockets 2:15:34.160 --> 2:15:38.920 for incarcerated folks so that they can actually file some 2:15:39.040 --> 2:15:42.080 tax documents and get their stimulus checks. 2:15:42.200 --> 2:15:45.040 Oh, which was major, right, So a. 2:15:45.200 --> 2:15:48.160 Ton of people were able to get their stimulus checks 2:15:48.400 --> 2:15:53.400 while incarcerated. Do you know how far that went? So 2:15:53.440 --> 2:15:55.720 it's just like those kinds of creative ways, you know, 2:15:56.120 --> 2:15:59.480 we often think, you know, we drive past a coffee 2:15:59.480 --> 2:16:01.760 shopping with like, oh, yeah, my mom love that coffee shop. 2:16:02.320 --> 2:16:04.400 We just hope that if we can make these connections 2:16:04.440 --> 2:16:08.400 with incarcerated neighbors, then we can you know, as we're 2:16:08.520 --> 2:16:11.600 going through the world on the outside. We also make 2:16:11.680 --> 2:16:15.280 those connections like, oh, you know what, sumulus checks. Oh 2:16:15.400 --> 2:16:19.080 you know what, how do we get our incarcerated comrades 2:16:19.120 --> 2:16:20.000 to get those two? 2:16:20.360 --> 2:16:20.520 Right? 2:16:21.040 --> 2:16:24.839 Making those connections with the people that you build bonds 2:16:24.840 --> 2:16:26.760 with it's really important. 2:16:27.200 --> 2:16:31.000 Yeah, yeah, Can I go on a rant that covers 2:16:31.040 --> 2:16:33.280 most of the notes that I have that I haven't 2:16:33.280 --> 2:16:33.720 covered yet? 2:16:33.800 --> 2:16:34.480 Yeah, go for it. 2:16:34.600 --> 2:16:39.280 Okay, thank you. Prison organizing is tremendously popular with people 2:16:39.280 --> 2:16:42.520 in prison, and a lot of people on the quote 2:16:42.560 --> 2:16:46.800 unquote left or just with humanitarian sentiments on the outside 2:16:47.080 --> 2:16:50.840 are really great at you know, encouraging us and being 2:16:50.879 --> 2:16:53.000 like what you're doing is awesome and kind of giving 2:16:53.040 --> 2:16:55.840 us that like moral support which does help, and also 2:16:55.920 --> 2:16:59.320 you know, subscribing to our newsletter and sometimes doing phones 2:16:59.320 --> 2:17:02.200 apps and stuff like that. But generally it is tremendously 2:17:02.200 --> 2:17:06.680 difficult moving people from passive to active support in this 2:17:06.840 --> 2:17:10.320 kind of organizing. Typically, I think there is that kind 2:17:10.320 --> 2:17:13.200 of out of sight, out of mind factor going on 2:17:13.440 --> 2:17:16.120 for a lot of people, and I think there are 2:17:16.240 --> 2:17:20.320 organizing avenues out of that that I think we are, 2:17:20.680 --> 2:17:23.959 you know, always exploring new new ways to kind of 2:17:24.000 --> 2:17:27.920 try and make those connections in an experiential kind of way, 2:17:28.080 --> 2:17:30.360 rather than just like have you thought about how these 2:17:30.360 --> 2:17:33.240 things are connected, but like actually making it like real 2:17:33.280 --> 2:17:36.040 for people, you know. But we have just found that 2:17:36.120 --> 2:17:41.920 like the most stalwart, steadfast people in this struggle for 2:17:41.959 --> 2:17:44.879 the most part, are people you know directly impacted by it, 2:17:44.920 --> 2:17:48.000 are people who've been to jail in prison or who 2:17:48.080 --> 2:17:52.560 have like close family members who are often currently there 2:17:52.680 --> 2:17:56.320 or were recently there. And so you know, we'd love 2:17:56.360 --> 2:17:58.880 to hear from you, if that's you in particular, we'd 2:17:58.879 --> 2:18:01.000 love to hear from you, love to plug you in. 2:18:01.760 --> 2:18:05.080 We are speaking, you know, from California. But again, the 2:18:05.200 --> 2:18:10.600 organization exists across the United States and aspirationally Canada as 2:18:10.640 --> 2:18:14.400 well and the UK, and there are also other prisoner 2:18:14.560 --> 2:18:17.560 solidarity organizations with a similar orientation, so it's not like 2:18:17.600 --> 2:18:20.240 we're doing something totally unique and unheard of here. There's 2:18:20.280 --> 2:18:24.880 something called gg slash BO in Germany, which is also 2:18:25.000 --> 2:18:27.400 like a union for prisoners, and I want to say 2:18:27.400 --> 2:18:31.200 there's pretty similar stuff in Spain to associated with the 2:18:31.240 --> 2:18:34.520 anarchist movement there. In the United States, I think people 2:18:34.520 --> 2:18:38.680 are probably pretty familiar with like political prisoner support or 2:18:38.720 --> 2:18:42.800 like support committees for groups like the Minnesota fifteen or 2:18:42.879 --> 2:18:47.120 the Prairie Land Defendants and situations like that, And that's 2:18:47.160 --> 2:18:49.880 really valuable and really important. And no movement that like 2:18:50.000 --> 2:18:52.640 doesn't look after its people when they're in prison, like 2:18:52.800 --> 2:18:55.000 is a serious movement that will go anywhere at the 2:18:55.080 --> 2:18:57.480 end of the day. So that work really really matters. 2:18:57.959 --> 2:19:01.640 And I think that when people hear us as Eyewalk 2:19:01.760 --> 2:19:04.840 repeat one of our mottos that like all prisoners are political, 2:19:05.120 --> 2:19:09.160 they don't quite necessarily get the analysis there. I mean, 2:19:09.200 --> 2:19:11.480 for one thing, like you know, I'm going to give 2:19:11.520 --> 2:19:14.280 the spiel from the ground up. I guess for a second, 2:19:14.360 --> 2:19:18.240 like crime as an artificial category, like what a conviction 2:19:18.400 --> 2:19:21.959 says on paper is not like reflective necessarily of what 2:19:22.040 --> 2:19:24.920 really happened. And there has yet to be I think 2:19:24.959 --> 2:19:28.840 some really damning like study about this, just because there 2:19:28.879 --> 2:19:32.720 just hasn't been a study. But it is widely understood 2:19:32.720 --> 2:19:36.039 that like essentially all women in prison have suffered some 2:19:36.160 --> 2:19:39.560 kind of abuse in their lives, and almost all of 2:19:39.600 --> 2:19:43.320 the women in prison for murder murdered an abuser of 2:19:43.360 --> 2:19:48.039 either themselves or their kids or both. And in my book, 2:19:48.280 --> 2:19:52.080 that ain't a crime. Yeah, but Gigi maybe if she's 2:19:52.480 --> 2:19:55.520 if she wants to, can talk about how narrow the 2:19:55.720 --> 2:19:59.480 self defense rule actually is. And this is something that 2:19:59.600 --> 2:20:03.280 is like a popular myth that like the self defense 2:20:03.360 --> 2:20:06.039 rule is actually really wide and like if you know 2:20:06.120 --> 2:20:08.560 someone's coming to kill you, you can kill them first 2:20:08.600 --> 2:20:12.119 and it's not murder. Absolutely not true. I actually had 2:20:12.120 --> 2:20:15.600 a manager at a job. He was doing a training 2:20:15.600 --> 2:20:19.160 on something completely unrelated, I assure you, and he was 2:20:19.240 --> 2:20:21.160 just sort of going off and he was like and 2:20:21.200 --> 2:20:24.440 he was this fucking macho prick, right obviously based on 2:20:24.480 --> 2:20:26.879 what I'm about to say, but like he was like, oh, yeah, 2:20:26.879 --> 2:20:29.039 like if anyone attacks you in the middle of nowhere, 2:20:29.040 --> 2:20:31.560 you should just like kill them if you have the chance. 2:20:31.640 --> 2:20:33.640 And then there's only one story being told. And I 2:20:33.720 --> 2:20:36.520 was like, yeah, so that would be murder and he 2:20:36.640 --> 2:20:38.200 was like, well, not if they attack you first, and 2:20:38.240 --> 2:20:42.280 I'm like, yeah, it is actually, you know, like if 2:20:42.320 --> 2:20:44.879 there's just a body and you're like, yeah, you talk 2:20:44.920 --> 2:20:46.960 to me, like you should not assume that you will 2:20:46.959 --> 2:20:48.879 just get away with that, Like that is not how 2:20:48.920 --> 2:20:52.680 things work at all. Yeah, do you want to elaborate 2:20:52.680 --> 2:20:55.080 on the self defense rule and what it is versus 2:20:55.120 --> 2:20:55.959 what people think it is. 2:20:56.640 --> 2:21:00.600 Yeah, so it's really important for us to understand stand 2:21:00.640 --> 2:21:04.359 that our legal doctrines in the United States are created 2:21:04.800 --> 2:21:10.080 to have loopholes for those in power and to be very. 2:21:09.879 --> 2:21:15.680 Convoluted and impossible to benefit from for those who are poor. 2:21:16.280 --> 2:21:19.879 So when it comes to the self defense doctrine, we 2:21:20.040 --> 2:21:29.439 actually have seen that it is disproportionately unavailable to victims 2:21:29.640 --> 2:21:34.920 of domestic and intimate partner violence. We have seen it 2:21:35.040 --> 2:21:41.400 disproportionately unavailable to black and brown men, to trans and 2:21:41.480 --> 2:21:45.600 non gender conforming neighbors. And a big part of that 2:21:45.680 --> 2:21:51.280 reason is because a complete self defense claim has six 2:21:51.440 --> 2:21:56.600 really important elements. You know, you cannot be like the 2:21:56.640 --> 2:22:00.960 first aggressor. There's distinctions between the use of versus non 2:22:01.040 --> 2:22:06.840 deathly force, a reasonable belief that the level of force 2:22:06.920 --> 2:22:11.200 that you use was necessary to protect yourself. But also 2:22:11.400 --> 2:22:16.840 this concept of proportionality. Right. We've seen that absolutely impact 2:22:17.760 --> 2:22:21.720 and am using DV cases because of this kind of 2:22:22.000 --> 2:22:28.480 concept of imminence. Right, So, if someone was being abused 2:22:28.640 --> 2:22:32.480 for a long time by their partner or their spouse, 2:22:33.360 --> 2:22:39.160 and you know, our psychology as humans are psyche sometimes, 2:22:39.360 --> 2:22:43.119 you know, sometimes we snap, right, if you didn't snap 2:22:43.480 --> 2:22:48.760 in the moment as a reaction to you know, being 2:22:49.440 --> 2:22:53.280 harmed in that moment. Right, if your brain didn't make 2:22:53.320 --> 2:22:58.920 the proper calculation, that defense is not available to Right. 2:22:59.440 --> 2:23:07.120 There's so many, unfortunately, bars to actually being able to 2:23:07.520 --> 2:23:13.000 cleiming self defense in a successful way, and it's very intentional. Unfortunately, 2:23:13.080 --> 2:23:18.320 it was intentionally designed that way to avoid the most 2:23:18.440 --> 2:23:22.160 vulnerable from using it. For example, there's this kind of 2:23:22.320 --> 2:23:27.760 concept of perception of threat, right along with proportionality. Right, 2:23:27.959 --> 2:23:32.720 So if someone is taller or maybe physically larger than 2:23:32.720 --> 2:23:38.680 their abuser, then there's this concept that, well, is your 2:23:38.680 --> 2:23:40.440 abuser actually a threat to you? 2:23:42.280 --> 2:23:42.520 Right? 2:23:43.440 --> 2:23:45.879 And so there's just so many ways in which the 2:23:46.000 --> 2:23:52.080 law has not actually caught up with our new knowledge 2:23:52.240 --> 2:23:55.120 when it comes to the psychological effects of living with 2:23:55.240 --> 2:23:59.680 intimate partner violence, the impact that it has on our 2:23:59.680 --> 2:24:05.240 reaction action times, right on the cycles, on the challenges 2:24:05.360 --> 2:24:09.119 for many survivors to be able to even compile long 2:24:09.240 --> 2:24:11.280 term proof of abuse. 2:24:11.120 --> 2:24:11.560 Et cetera. 2:24:11.720 --> 2:24:16.400 Right, we can go on endlessly, and so unfortunately, I 2:24:16.440 --> 2:24:21.680 think it's just a reflection of our legal system again 2:24:21.920 --> 2:24:27.560 just created to bar those most vulnerable for many protection 2:24:28.400 --> 2:24:31.480 and it's really just there so that those who have 2:24:31.720 --> 2:24:38.600 the resources and those who have the control of social norms, right, 2:24:38.800 --> 2:24:43.040 those like young white men who have been perceived by 2:24:43.200 --> 2:24:46.400 juries as kind and innocent. 2:24:46.400 --> 2:24:51.959 Right, Kyle Rittenhouse, exactly right. That's who our laws were 2:24:52.000 --> 2:24:55.160 designed to protect, not our individuals. And so that just 2:24:55.280 --> 2:25:00.000 just tie into our understanding of incarceration in this country 2:25:00.200 --> 2:25:04.960 and how it's truly not a reflection of what really happened. 2:25:06.959 --> 2:25:10.720 Most of the time, it's void of context and it's 2:25:10.879 --> 2:25:13.920 just out right in Jess. 2:25:14.520 --> 2:25:17.640 Yeah, And there are a couple resources I think for 2:25:17.720 --> 2:25:19.640 people to check out if you're more interested in this. 2:25:19.800 --> 2:25:22.520 I mean, one question is like, how many people are 2:25:22.520 --> 2:25:24.640 in prison right now who are straight up innocent? And 2:25:24.680 --> 2:25:28.320 the straightforward answer is, we have no idea. And you know, 2:25:28.440 --> 2:25:30.560 as a rule, we just tend to take prisoner's word 2:25:30.600 --> 2:25:32.600 on stuff. I mean, what everyone else does is just 2:25:32.640 --> 2:25:35.880 take the cops word on stuff, frankly, including the news. Oftentimes. 2:25:36.560 --> 2:25:40.880 A big part of what we do is we are 2:25:40.959 --> 2:25:46.600 available to give comment to journalists when possible around certain 2:25:47.360 --> 2:25:53.280 jail and prison disturbances or actions that people in prisoner 2:25:53.400 --> 2:25:56.039 jail have taken to defend themselves against. You know, quote 2:25:56.120 --> 2:25:59.520 unquote the law the people, you know, torturing them essentially 2:26:00.400 --> 2:26:03.200 because oftentimes, you know, local news in par particular will 2:26:03.240 --> 2:26:07.240 just be straight up stenographers for whatever the police press releases. 2:26:07.320 --> 2:26:10.040 I mean, they'll often also just refer to things as 2:26:10.160 --> 2:26:13.800 riots that are not like if people sit down and 2:26:13.959 --> 2:26:17.600 like refuse to leave the lunch area or like the 2:26:18.240 --> 2:26:21.960 you know, like the central sitting area, they will refer 2:26:22.040 --> 2:26:24.360 to that as like a riot, even if no one 2:26:24.480 --> 2:26:26.320 is like throwing punches. 2:26:26.440 --> 2:26:30.119 And just to sort of circle labor, if you refuse 2:26:30.240 --> 2:26:35.480 to work, you get punished for it. It's not necessarily optional, right. 2:26:35.640 --> 2:26:39.720 It is absolutely slavery, not just because of the conditions 2:26:40.280 --> 2:26:44.800 and because of the you know, poor payment basically lack 2:26:44.879 --> 2:26:48.400 of payment, right, but because you are forced to work 2:26:49.000 --> 2:26:51.760 or you get punished, and sometimes it goes on your 2:26:51.840 --> 2:26:55.400 record that could actually impact you for any kind of 2:26:55.400 --> 2:27:00.480 parole opportunities, et cetera. So it is punitive and it 2:27:00.520 --> 2:27:04.840 is exploitative and it is nothing more than slappy. 2:27:05.400 --> 2:27:09.560 Yeah, to also touch base on, Yeah, like the fact 2:27:09.680 --> 2:27:12.040 is it's slavery. I think that's like we and other 2:27:12.360 --> 2:27:15.040 organizers have done a pretty good job. I feel like 2:27:15.240 --> 2:27:18.120 of like getting that fact into the mainstream and being 2:27:18.160 --> 2:27:21.000 like yeah, like this is slavery like period end of sentence. 2:27:21.040 --> 2:27:25.640 It is legally and material slavery. And now we're entering 2:27:25.680 --> 2:27:29.080 this process in which states like Colorado, for example, are 2:27:29.160 --> 2:27:31.520 passing laws that's like yeah, so we're just like abolishing 2:27:31.520 --> 2:27:34.040 this slavery thing, and it's like it's like the apparatus 2:27:34.120 --> 2:27:37.000 to deprive people of their rights has not itself been 2:27:37.040 --> 2:27:40.720 disempowered in any way, and so they're just like waving 2:27:40.720 --> 2:27:43.520 a blond over this system of slavery, being like it's 2:27:43.560 --> 2:27:46.640 not now like okay, you know what I mean. So 2:27:46.720 --> 2:27:49.440 like when we demand, you know, abolish the thirteenth, it's 2:27:49.480 --> 2:27:51.800 like that's like kind of a long term, like strategic 2:27:52.200 --> 2:27:56.240 like legal demand, but just because a state, like I 2:27:56.560 --> 2:27:58.880 feel like this is being recuperated into the kind of 2:27:58.920 --> 2:28:03.000 like self congratulates or you know, like like fox civil 2:28:03.080 --> 2:28:06.280 rights like liberalism at this point, because like states are 2:28:06.280 --> 2:28:08.920 like abolishing their version of the thirteenth and then being 2:28:09.000 --> 2:28:11.879 like cool, our work here is done. Oh but you 2:28:11.920 --> 2:28:16.720 didn't do anything actually right, And Colorado in fact still 2:28:16.760 --> 2:28:19.119 forces people to work in their prisons and it is 2:28:19.360 --> 2:28:24.160 illegal technically, but like it ain't quite as illegal as 2:28:24.240 --> 2:28:26.440 you know, it ain't the same type of illegal when 2:28:26.720 --> 2:28:28.520 the state is doing it right, the state is not 2:28:28.560 --> 2:28:31.080 in fact bound by its own laws in practice. Yeah, 2:28:31.440 --> 2:28:34.720 and I mean also juxtaposed like everything that Jigi just 2:28:34.760 --> 2:28:39.080 said about self defense with like the excuses that cops 2:28:39.120 --> 2:28:41.440 are allowed to give when they shoot people out out 2:28:41.520 --> 2:28:45.120 at random. Right, it's like, oh, well, the standard for 2:28:45.200 --> 2:28:49.240 a human being, you know, killing another human being is 2:28:49.680 --> 2:28:52.600 it has to be like in mutual combat, like you 2:28:52.640 --> 2:28:55.320 have to be using proportionate for sta da da da da, 2:28:55.720 --> 2:28:58.600 whereas like a cop can just be like, well I 2:28:58.680 --> 2:29:00.800 kind of thought that he was holding thing or whatever. 2:29:01.280 --> 2:29:04.560 So yeah, And as far as organizing goes, I mean, people, 2:29:05.040 --> 2:29:07.760 I just want to say, people take lots of actions. 2:29:07.840 --> 2:29:11.279 So a lot of the form that our organizing takes 2:29:11.400 --> 2:29:14.160 is like we establish ourselves as a presence. We have 2:29:14.240 --> 2:29:17.119 our incarcerated members. They give us information about what either 2:29:17.160 --> 2:29:19.600 they or other groups of people are doing. Other people 2:29:19.680 --> 2:29:22.440 on the outside know about us. They give us information 2:29:22.520 --> 2:29:24.560 about what's going on in places, and we are kind 2:29:24.560 --> 2:29:28.840 of known as like the prison labor organization that does 2:29:28.879 --> 2:29:31.480 stuff around those and there really isn't as far as 2:29:31.520 --> 2:29:34.400 I'm aware, a kind of organization that like does that 2:29:34.440 --> 2:29:38.760 direct support specifically around labor issues anywhere else in the 2:29:38.840 --> 2:29:42.320 United States, again outside of the local level perhaps, So, Yeah, 2:29:42.320 --> 2:29:45.000 what we do is we pressure the prisons and jails 2:29:45.000 --> 2:29:48.920 to give into the prisoner's demands. And they're not necessarily 2:29:48.959 --> 2:29:51.280 going to like be like, oh, well, now that we've 2:29:51.280 --> 2:29:53.240 heard from the public, we will do all the demands. 2:29:53.280 --> 2:29:54.800 But like you heard the list of stuff that we 2:29:54.840 --> 2:29:57.360 read off about the Fresno jail, Like that was a 2:29:57.400 --> 2:30:01.040 surprising list of stuff, and they weren't actually striking or anything. 2:30:01.400 --> 2:30:03.959 And so oftentimes because of the power and balance, it 2:30:03.959 --> 2:30:05.800 does sort of just make more sense for us to 2:30:05.959 --> 2:30:10.200 just pressure the prison directly, regardless of whether there's a 2:30:10.240 --> 2:30:13.200 strike or not. But people do go on strike in 2:30:13.240 --> 2:30:15.720 prison and do work slowdowns in prison and all that 2:30:15.800 --> 2:30:19.680 kind of stuff. And it helps to have an outside 2:30:20.360 --> 2:30:24.920 like buffer and like support team and like a relational 2:30:24.959 --> 2:30:28.200 network of support, just like it does with other workers, right, 2:30:28.640 --> 2:30:31.520 Like building that kind of network of mutual aid and 2:30:31.560 --> 2:30:36.320 respect and support is what makes more action possible. And 2:30:36.400 --> 2:30:38.840 so that's what we kind of seek to do. And 2:30:38.879 --> 2:30:42.359 prison solidarity is something that is also not one directional. 2:30:42.680 --> 2:30:44.840 You know, you probably got a sense of this, you 2:30:44.840 --> 2:30:48.080 know in the snippets with Odra. But we learn a 2:30:48.120 --> 2:30:51.680 lot from our inside numbers. We learn life changing lessons 2:30:51.800 --> 2:30:54.800 from our inside members a lot, and they learn from 2:30:54.840 --> 2:30:59.040 us too. But we always tell new members, like especially 2:30:59.080 --> 2:31:00.440 you know, if they don't have a lot of experience 2:31:00.480 --> 2:31:02.440 with prison or whatever, it's like, do not approach this 2:31:02.680 --> 2:31:06.200 or from like a paternalistic standpoint, Like yes, they have 2:31:06.240 --> 2:31:08.880 a lot to learn, but so do we, and relationships 2:31:08.879 --> 2:31:12.080 and lessons go both ways. And also like prison admins 2:31:12.080 --> 2:31:15.120 are just incredibly vulnerable to public scrutiny, Like we heard 2:31:15.120 --> 2:31:17.480 how bad things are there, and it's like they don't 2:31:17.520 --> 2:31:20.800 want people knowing this, Like they have just skated by 2:31:21.040 --> 2:31:24.720 on like the kind of general Reagan eighties vibe of 2:31:24.879 --> 2:31:27.800 like oh yeah, this is actually part of the punishment, 2:31:28.280 --> 2:31:31.280 like this entire time, and like that is still their mindset. 2:31:31.320 --> 2:31:33.880 It's like, yeah, prison isn't supposed to be fun. What 2:31:33.879 --> 2:31:36.480 do you mean we need to give people toothpaste? Like 2:31:36.560 --> 2:31:39.520 that is still like their attitude to the tea and 2:31:40.200 --> 2:31:43.280 we need to intervene in that because that's really terrible. Actually, yeah, 2:31:43.320 --> 2:31:47.000 and you know, this is an authoritarian country, like straight 2:31:47.080 --> 2:31:50.400 up for the less wealthy half of the population, and 2:31:50.480 --> 2:31:52.960 this is like a huge part of that. And we 2:31:53.000 --> 2:31:55.440 can't just like not challenge the prison system and then 2:31:55.480 --> 2:31:59.360 do like radical organizing of any other kind and be like, yeah, 2:31:59.360 --> 2:32:01.440 we can just ignore or this prison thing. It surely 2:32:01.480 --> 2:32:03.440 will not come to eat us at any point. 2:32:04.040 --> 2:32:04.240 Right. 2:32:04.840 --> 2:32:08.119 There's also this kind of myth of like labor as rehabilitation, 2:32:08.240 --> 2:32:10.640 which is just like a you know, kind of calvinist 2:32:10.800 --> 2:32:13.680 sort of you know, humbug. But it's like, you know, 2:32:13.720 --> 2:32:15.440 we've already established that a lot of people in prison 2:32:15.480 --> 2:32:18.160 didn't do anything wrong, but like for those who did, 2:32:18.560 --> 2:32:21.280 like you know, within whatevery mortal framework you're using like 2:32:21.400 --> 2:32:24.240 if you're if you're someone who like goes around causing harm, 2:32:24.520 --> 2:32:26.920 how is like performing labor going to make you not 2:32:27.000 --> 2:32:31.240 that person? It's not. They're just producing surplus value, right, 2:32:32.120 --> 2:32:34.800 So that's total shit. And uh, and it's also you know, 2:32:34.800 --> 2:32:37.000 it's just kind of like this this old fashioned eighteen 2:32:37.040 --> 2:32:39.840 hundreds logic of like coorehouses and shit, you know, like 2:32:39.879 --> 2:32:43.920 make them work, We'll make everything better somehow. And as 2:32:43.959 --> 2:32:46.560 for being sued, like we know that the persons hate 2:32:46.560 --> 2:32:49.199 being sued, the people who really see them, the best, 2:32:49.440 --> 2:32:52.760 oftentimes are jail house lawyers, and we know that they 2:32:52.800 --> 2:32:54.800 hate that because like they will straight up try to 2:32:54.800 --> 2:32:57.160 have those people killed. Not only will they try to 2:32:57.160 --> 2:32:59.640 have those people killed, they will try to have any 2:32:59.720 --> 2:33:02.000 kind of prison staff reguard that like grows a conscience 2:33:02.000 --> 2:33:03.640 and is like, yeah, this thing that we did is 2:33:03.680 --> 2:33:06.439 kind of fucked up. Like I can't say with certainty, 2:33:06.480 --> 2:33:10.200 but like those people have died under suspicious circumstances. Just 2:33:10.240 --> 2:33:13.400 to contextualize it, like the prison adminsphere of public scrutiny 2:33:13.560 --> 2:33:17.520 like so much. And whenever we do something like this 2:33:17.720 --> 2:33:20.920 that is like sustained and like strategic and involving a 2:33:20.959 --> 2:33:24.360 lot of participation, which it's unfortunately not always and we 2:33:24.400 --> 2:33:25.840 need to work on that. And that is part of 2:33:25.840 --> 2:33:29.720 building a like staunch support base right is doing these 2:33:29.760 --> 2:33:32.520 distributed actions in a way that is like really sustained, 2:33:33.600 --> 2:33:38.360 so you know, we communicate with specific people and apply 2:33:38.440 --> 2:33:41.920 it pressure to the institution directly without going through any 2:33:42.000 --> 2:33:45.720 kind of like proper channels necessarily which tend to just 2:33:45.879 --> 2:33:52.200 do nothing. But doing this, we have stopped jail house 2:33:52.280 --> 2:33:56.600 lawyers from being killed. We have gotten firefighters at the 2:33:56.640 --> 2:34:00.920 Central California Women's facility their time credits, which the prison 2:34:01.040 --> 2:34:02.879 was like dragging their feet on giving them to the 2:34:02.959 --> 2:34:05.000 extent that like it was actually going to affect when 2:34:05.000 --> 2:34:08.039 they got out, like they were having like six months 2:34:08.040 --> 2:34:11.720 of time that they like weren't applying like eight months 2:34:11.760 --> 2:34:13.640 from like their current get out time, you know what 2:34:13.680 --> 2:34:18.080 I mean, Jesus. And so we fixed that. We have 2:34:18.160 --> 2:34:21.080 gotten multiple people like real medical care as opposed to 2:34:21.120 --> 2:34:24.199 like fake medical care. There was actually a kitchen strike 2:34:24.280 --> 2:34:27.400 that we didn't we didn't directly support, just because it 2:34:27.480 --> 2:34:29.840 like happened too quickly. Like I just I think I 2:34:29.920 --> 2:34:32.480 gave some like advice, but that was about it. And 2:34:32.560 --> 2:34:34.680 like they just like stopped paying them. Like in california're 2:34:34.720 --> 2:34:36.480 supposed to make like eight cents an hour or whatever, 2:34:36.800 --> 2:34:38.040 and they just were like, we're just not going to 2:34:38.080 --> 2:34:40.400 pay you with your eight cents anymore, but eight since 2:34:40.440 --> 2:34:40.959 an hour. 2:34:40.879 --> 2:34:42.959 Is too expensive for you as a person could fuck 2:34:43.040 --> 2:34:45.680 it off. God, Jesus Christ to hate these people. 2:34:46.160 --> 2:34:49.080 Yeah, I mean this is just the nature of exploitation. Yeah, 2:34:49.120 --> 2:34:51.120 Like they're always just trying to like, oh, we've gotten 2:34:51.160 --> 2:34:53.760 away with a million things, let's get away with a 2:34:53.800 --> 2:34:56.560 million and month things. Yep, you know like it's it's 2:34:56.640 --> 2:35:00.360 it's the nature of oppression and exploitation, right, yeah, So 2:35:00.360 --> 2:35:02.280 they struck and they won back their eight cents an hour, 2:35:02.840 --> 2:35:06.320 and there was a slowdown that you can read about 2:35:06.440 --> 2:35:10.000 in Prison Reports, which is like a movement news outlet, 2:35:10.320 --> 2:35:13.440 where people did a slow down. People that were producing, 2:35:13.480 --> 2:35:16.600 like the boxers for other prisoners I believe, did a 2:35:16.640 --> 2:35:19.560 work slow down about two years ago, eighteen months ago 2:35:19.640 --> 2:35:22.160 or so. And this was just to get access to 2:35:22.200 --> 2:35:24.640 the commissary. So like they were making good money by 2:35:24.720 --> 2:35:28.680 like prison standards, but like the commissary closed while they 2:35:28.680 --> 2:35:31.560 were still working, and so they couldn't spend their money. 2:35:31.640 --> 2:35:36.400 Oh yeah, and so they did a slowdown to like 2:35:36.480 --> 2:35:40.160 fix that. This was part of California Prison Industries Authority, 2:35:40.520 --> 2:35:44.920 which like is the manufacturer of oftentimes first resort for 2:35:45.120 --> 2:35:48.680 like all kinds of like furniture and other supplies for 2:35:48.720 --> 2:35:51.800 the state of California, including the UC system. And this 2:35:51.840 --> 2:35:54.280 is often the case with other states as well. And 2:35:54.760 --> 2:35:57.600 we also just are disseminating helpful info all the time, 2:35:57.760 --> 2:36:00.720 Like with that legal info. It's like if you show 2:36:00.760 --> 2:36:03.080 up with like a bunch of like radical literature and 2:36:03.160 --> 2:36:05.640 like some legal info to like a puncture, people are like, 2:36:05.640 --> 2:36:08.760 why you have legal info? Befoor ing fall, But like 2:36:08.879 --> 2:36:10.640 in prison, it's like, yeah, you're gonna find some people 2:36:10.680 --> 2:36:13.080 interested in the radical info and like that stuff. People 2:36:13.080 --> 2:36:15.600 are interested in it too, But like the legal info 2:36:15.800 --> 2:36:18.279 is what people really want because it is more practical. 2:36:18.320 --> 2:36:21.320 It's like, you know, we of course we distribute information 2:36:21.360 --> 2:36:25.520 about the IWW and about solidarity, unionism and and you know, 2:36:25.560 --> 2:36:27.840 feminism and all kinds of other stuff, you know, the 2:36:27.840 --> 2:36:30.400 Black Panthers, you know, the whole nine. But like what 2:36:30.440 --> 2:36:33.200 people really do want, because it's the most practical, is 2:36:33.280 --> 2:36:36.440 like how do I sue the prison? How do I 2:36:36.520 --> 2:36:40.039 legally hack my way out of this beast? And like 2:36:40.200 --> 2:36:42.520 it works, and a lot of our best and like 2:36:43.000 --> 2:36:46.520 brightest outside members who were once inside members, like they 2:36:46.520 --> 2:36:49.840 didn't just wait for their sentence to expire. They like 2:36:49.959 --> 2:36:54.080 had to file a grievances and like take every opportunity 2:36:54.160 --> 2:36:56.959 to like be the prison's worst op to the point 2:36:57.000 --> 2:36:58.960 that the prison was just like just what the fuck 2:36:59.000 --> 2:37:02.600 out already Like enough of this person? Yeah, so yeah, 2:37:02.720 --> 2:37:03.840 that's most of what I got. 2:37:04.520 --> 2:37:07.320 How can people support y'all and get involved more? 2:37:07.760 --> 2:37:10.840 So? Definitely Cook should visit us at Incarcerated Workers dot 2:37:10.959 --> 2:37:14.040 org and we will provide those links and definitely sign 2:37:14.080 --> 2:37:18.320 up for our newswatter where we give some updates on 2:37:18.520 --> 2:37:21.840 what's happening inside in a safe way to protect our 2:37:21.879 --> 2:37:26.120 members inside and their organizing work, but also hear about 2:37:26.200 --> 2:37:29.840 you know, work happening across the country and across the 2:37:29.840 --> 2:37:30.480 world as well. 2:37:30.959 --> 2:37:33.480 I would also, I guess, just add that we really 2:37:33.480 --> 2:37:38.400 want labor unionists and healthcare workers and lawyers and law 2:37:38.440 --> 2:37:43.600 students and researchers to plug into our website because there 2:37:43.640 --> 2:37:46.879 are spaces and reporters and journalists, I should say as well, 2:37:47.160 --> 2:37:49.280 to plug into our website because there are spaces for 2:37:49.560 --> 2:37:51.640 just them. That doesn't mean that we don't want other 2:37:51.680 --> 2:37:55.800 people signing up too, but those professions, I think, in particular, 2:37:56.400 --> 2:37:59.880 you know and educators also have a lot of impact 2:38:00.320 --> 2:38:03.120 and like a lot of relationships direct and indirect to 2:38:03.160 --> 2:38:06.640 the system that we want to kind of zero in 2:38:06.680 --> 2:38:10.920 on and do something with. And the website elaborates on that. 2:38:11.440 --> 2:38:14.600 If you're addicted to Instagram, you can follow us there 2:38:14.640 --> 2:38:19.200 at Incarcerated Workers and also at thea Underscore Iwalk or California. 2:38:19.680 --> 2:38:22.720 But if you're not, then good for you. And instead 2:38:22.760 --> 2:38:24.600 you should sign up to our email newsletter. 2:38:25.879 --> 2:38:26.160 Yeah. 2:38:26.280 --> 2:38:27.240 I will leave it at that. 2:38:27.920 --> 2:38:31.800 In sure, let's burn it down amazing. 2:38:32.840 --> 2:38:36.119 Now, before we go, I want to mention something extremely 2:38:36.120 --> 2:38:39.120 important that we'll be covering in more detail in a 2:38:39.200 --> 2:38:43.560 later episode, which is the planned twenty twenty seven National 2:38:43.600 --> 2:38:47.080 Prisoners Human Rights Strike plan to run from May Day 2:38:47.080 --> 2:38:50.840 to juneteenth and twenty twenty seven. We're going to talk 2:38:51.000 --> 2:38:53.760 more about this in a later episode and get more 2:38:53.760 --> 2:38:56.240 of the history of the twenty sixteen to twenty eighteen 2:38:56.320 --> 2:39:00.880 prisoner strikes that I walk in Joe House Lawyers Speak, 2:39:00.920 --> 2:39:03.280 who we're going to be reading a statement from in 2:39:03.360 --> 2:39:06.280 a second we're involved in. But for now, I'm going 2:39:06.320 --> 2:39:09.320 to close this episode by quoting the statement released by 2:39:09.400 --> 2:39:14.520 Jailhouse Lawyers Speak, why we strike. A political storm is 2:39:14.520 --> 2:39:17.560 sweeping through many prisons across the nation, as the prison 2:39:17.640 --> 2:39:22.120 class plainly see the hidden mechanisms of a system designed 2:39:22.160 --> 2:39:26.360 to dehumanize the imprisoned population. For too long, many of 2:39:26.440 --> 2:39:29.000 us were kept in the dark about the machinery behind 2:39:29.000 --> 2:39:33.960 our confinement. How law enforcement, district attorneys, politicians, and judges 2:39:34.640 --> 2:39:38.400 win elections on platforms of mass imprisonment, and how private 2:39:38.440 --> 2:39:42.800 interests in rural economies profit off our bedcounts. Our captive 2:39:42.800 --> 2:39:46.640 bodies are weaponized through prison based gerrymandering, where our numbers 2:39:46.640 --> 2:39:49.279 are used to swell the political power and draw federal 2:39:49.280 --> 2:39:52.760 funding into rural districts, all while stripping us of any 2:39:52.840 --> 2:39:58.320 voter representation. Through these exceptional clauses, the prison class is 2:39:58.400 --> 2:40:02.879 relegated to conditional citizens ship, a status where constitutional rights 2:40:02.920 --> 2:40:06.119 are granted at the pleasure of the state. When officials 2:40:06.120 --> 2:40:10.080 can openly discuss transferring imprisoned citizens to foreign prisons without 2:40:10.120 --> 2:40:14.320 constitutional barrier, it is because these exception clauses have already 2:40:14.400 --> 2:40:18.240 stripped the prison class of the full protections of citizenship. 2:40:18.640 --> 2:40:23.039 Behind the razors, this legal disenfranchisement is paired with the 2:40:23.120 --> 2:40:28.119 reality of living in unventilated, boiling cells during climate extremes, 2:40:28.800 --> 2:40:34.560 enduring endless so called staffing shortage lockdowns ordered by prison crats, 2:40:34.920 --> 2:40:38.840 washing militarized roundups and ice attention centers, and seeing poor 2:40:38.879 --> 2:40:41.920 people funneled into plea deals simply because they cannot afford 2:40:42.000 --> 2:40:45.840 cash bail or paid legal defense. The traffic extends beyond 2:40:45.879 --> 2:40:49.360 the walls, thousands on thousands of people in prison who 2:40:49.400 --> 2:40:52.600 meet the basic parole requirements are repeatedly denied parole by 2:40:52.680 --> 2:40:57.039 arbitrary boards citing quote the nature of the original crime 2:40:57.320 --> 2:41:01.039 end quote, a static reason that never changes, solely to 2:41:01.120 --> 2:41:05.640 maintain prison bed quotas even upon release. The karstural state 2:41:05.720 --> 2:41:11.600 traps formerly imprisoned people under supervision, debt, electronic surveillance inco monitors, 2:41:11.640 --> 2:41:14.360 and restricted probation and parole systems that serve as a 2:41:14.440 --> 2:41:18.480 revolving door back to a cell the core demands. While 2:41:18.520 --> 2:41:22.320 the full ten national demands remain active, strike organizers across 2:41:22.360 --> 2:41:26.640 committed states are focusing on three core demands. One and 2:41:26.920 --> 2:41:31.320 legalized slavery. Repeal the exception clause at the thirteenth Amendment 2:41:31.320 --> 2:41:34.400 to the US Constitution. This is the cause that last 2:41:34.400 --> 2:41:38.680 slavery is punished with in prisons. Two Restore voting rights. 2:41:38.920 --> 2:41:43.240 Repeal exception clauses such as Section two of the fourteenth 2:41:43.280 --> 2:41:47.560 Amendment that strip voting rights from confined citizens, pre trial detainees, 2:41:47.600 --> 2:41:52.959 and former felons. Three free all the political prisoners in 2:41:53.000 --> 2:41:57.720 the US prisons. Thank you all both for doing this 2:41:57.879 --> 2:42:00.840 work and for fighting this fight, and for being on 2:42:00.879 --> 2:42:02.879 the show. And I hope we all go out into 2:42:02.920 --> 2:42:06.440 the world and fight for workers everywhere, wherever they may be, and. 2:42:21.440 --> 2:42:24.840 This is it could happen here. Executive Disorder, our weekly 2:42:24.879 --> 2:42:27.840 newscast covering what's happening in the White House, the crumbling world, 2:42:27.840 --> 2:42:30.680 and what this means for you. I'm Garrison Davis today. 2:42:30.680 --> 2:42:34.279 I'm joined by Mia Wong, James Stout, and Robert Evans. 2:42:34.480 --> 2:42:37.000 Who do we do this episode? We're covering the week 2:42:37.040 --> 2:42:38.959 of August twelfth through August. 2:42:38.760 --> 2:42:43.119 Nineteenth, So I guess I'll start with I've seen reports 2:42:43.120 --> 2:42:46.360 that ICE is using parked vehicles, I guess as staging 2:42:46.400 --> 2:42:48.760 points for cameras. And I have seen videos of what 2:42:48.800 --> 2:42:51.560 appeared to be licensed plate flippers on ICE vehicles. If 2:42:51.600 --> 2:42:53.920 you're not familiar, right, Like, there's been lots and lots 2:42:53.920 --> 2:42:57.279 of reports of ICE agents like manually changing license plates. 2:42:57.959 --> 2:43:01.120 This just appears to be a device gos rotates one 2:43:01.160 --> 2:43:03.800 hundred and eighty degrees, so you've got two license plates available. 2:43:04.280 --> 2:43:07.680 A lot of the pictures we saw a man being 2:43:08.040 --> 2:43:09.840 I'm not sure if he was arrested or just like 2:43:09.920 --> 2:43:11.800 harassed for saying like, why don't you have a license 2:43:11.840 --> 2:43:13.240 plate on your vehicle? Why don't you have a license 2:43:13.240 --> 2:43:15.400 plate on your vehicle? And it very much appears if 2:43:15.440 --> 2:43:19.240 that vehicle had a license plate flipper on the front. Secondly, 2:43:19.400 --> 2:43:23.800 CBP is pausing all construction in Big Bend. This is 2:43:23.840 --> 2:43:27.400 according to Rodney Scott, who's the CBP commissioner, who says 2:43:27.400 --> 2:43:29.480 he is personally on his way there to conduct a 2:43:29.560 --> 2:43:33.960 quite personal evaluation. It's entirely unclear, like what that means 2:43:34.120 --> 2:43:36.920 and what are the criteria for this evaluation? Right, Like, 2:43:37.480 --> 2:43:42.880 there are dozens of laws, treaties and regulations that cover 2:43:42.959 --> 2:43:44.760 the kind of thing that they are doing in the 2:43:44.760 --> 2:43:46.560 place that they are doing it, and they have waived 2:43:46.720 --> 2:43:49.160 all of them. So this is what we get now, right, 2:43:49.200 --> 2:43:51.320 we get Rodney Scott going on a plane and just 2:43:51.520 --> 2:43:54.600 like giving it the like the imperial thumbs up or 2:43:54.640 --> 2:43:57.119 thumbs down like some kind of Roman emperor. I guess, 2:43:57.720 --> 2:44:00.360 like this is a thing that wouldn't fly in like 2:44:00.360 --> 2:44:02.840 a hereditary monarchy like the UK. Right where we now 2:44:02.879 --> 2:44:05.840 have one person making this choice that everyone will have 2:44:05.840 --> 2:44:08.360 to live with forever. They are destroying a place which 2:44:08.400 --> 2:44:10.959 is beautiful and one of the places that has not 2:44:11.000 --> 2:44:13.800 been ruined by capitalism and the state one of the 2:44:14.080 --> 2:44:18.120 few large areas of public land in Texas. So I 2:44:18.120 --> 2:44:20.560 will keep you updated on what Rodney Scott decides to do. 2:44:21.040 --> 2:44:22.760 I will probably do an episode on my other show 2:44:22.840 --> 2:44:26.640 Natural Courses about Big Bend soon. And then finally, I 2:44:26.680 --> 2:44:29.240 guess as we're talking about borderwall stuff from me, people 2:44:29.320 --> 2:44:33.440 are conducting a tree sit in a cottonwood tree in Arizona. 2:44:33.480 --> 2:44:37.439 The cottonwood tree. It's a very old cottonwood tree, sometimes 2:44:37.640 --> 2:44:41.560 called Grandmother tree. These people are trying to protect it 2:44:41.600 --> 2:44:44.280 from being destroyed due to border wall construction. They've been 2:44:44.320 --> 2:44:45.760 sitting in that tree for several weeks. 2:44:45.800 --> 2:44:46.039 Now. 2:44:46.320 --> 2:44:47.960 I will eventually go visit them. It's going to go 2:44:48.040 --> 2:44:51.760 visit them, but I went to Spokane when those fires struck. Instead, 2:44:52.120 --> 2:44:54.480 they have been joined by someone on the Mexican side, 2:44:54.680 --> 2:44:56.640 So now there are two tree sitters, making this the 2:44:56.680 --> 2:45:00.200 first international tree sit that I am ever aware of. 2:45:00.879 --> 2:45:03.840 That rules Yeah, no, it's great. Hell yeah, hell yeah. 2:45:03.879 --> 2:45:05.640 Well like trees don't know borders, right. 2:45:06.320 --> 2:45:07.039 Yeah. 2:45:07.200 --> 2:45:10.680 As I highlighted in my other podcast, Natural Cause, is 2:45:10.720 --> 2:45:13.840 the US left really fucked up when NAFTA came in 2:45:14.400 --> 2:45:16.320 by not saying if you're going to try and pay 2:45:16.360 --> 2:45:18.520 people less in Mexico, then we will try and organize 2:45:18.520 --> 2:45:21.720 people in Mexico and together we will demand dignified wages 2:45:21.760 --> 2:45:24.440 and conditions. I'm glad that people are not taking that 2:45:24.480 --> 2:45:28.280 approach anymore because they didn't get us anywhere. Yeah, I'll 2:45:28.320 --> 2:45:30.240 keep covering the situation there as well. 2:45:30.920 --> 2:45:36.040 So, speaking of I guess the long range effects of NAFTA. KOSB, 2:45:36.240 --> 2:45:39.119 which is the Korean stock index, hit its circuit breaker, 2:45:39.200 --> 2:45:41.600 which is the breaker that hits if you lose too 2:45:41.720 --> 2:45:46.360 much percentage of the stock market's value again on Wednesday. 2:45:46.959 --> 2:45:49.840 I genuinely have lost count of the number of times 2:45:49.879 --> 2:45:52.000 that it has been triggered over the past few months. 2:45:52.000 --> 2:45:53.959 This has become a regular recurrence in one of the 2:45:54.040 --> 2:45:57.240 largest and most important stock markets in the world. This 2:45:57.440 --> 2:46:00.640 time it was fueled by a collapse of textile and 2:46:00.760 --> 2:46:03.160 the Brent Fruit Index hitting ninety dollars a barrel. We 2:46:03.200 --> 2:46:05.240 will be getting into some more of the impacts of 2:46:05.280 --> 2:46:05.800 that later. 2:46:06.520 --> 2:46:06.920 I don't know. 2:46:07.040 --> 2:46:09.720 My guess is that it's going to rebound as everyone 2:46:09.760 --> 2:46:12.280 buys the dip tomorrow. But any one of these could 2:46:12.280 --> 2:46:14.560 be the one where it doesn't rebound, and we will 2:46:14.640 --> 2:46:19.400 let you know whether the global economic collapses on Yay. 2:46:20.280 --> 2:46:22.920 Yeah, what happens if there's not a rebound? What is 2:46:22.959 --> 2:46:27.120 that going to look like ud, everyone's fucked. 2:46:27.280 --> 2:46:27.320 No. 2:46:27.440 --> 2:46:29.720 I mean, like in terms of what is your expecting 2:46:29.760 --> 2:46:30.680 cascade of events. 2:46:30.680 --> 2:46:34.280 If that goes down, Oh, the entire global economy goes under. 2:46:34.400 --> 2:46:37.200 Because the Korean stock market right now is basically a 2:46:37.320 --> 2:46:39.840 kind of tragedy as farcet version of the American market 2:46:39.840 --> 2:46:42.279 where most of almost all of the value is congealed 2:46:42.320 --> 2:46:46.800 into these three AI yeah, three companies that yeah, basically 2:46:46.840 --> 2:46:48.560 make AI chips, right, and then the rest of the 2:46:48.600 --> 2:46:51.920 value down the shane is people doing weird gambling stuff 2:46:51.920 --> 2:46:55.960 on different AI components. If the market just actually crashes, 2:46:56.560 --> 2:46:59.840 that is those three companies, and you know we're talking 2:47:00.080 --> 2:47:04.000 like Samsung here, right, these are vital components in the 2:47:04.160 --> 2:47:06.880 entire AI I mean not just the AI sere obviously 2:47:06.879 --> 2:47:09.879 the Samsung, right, like we're talking about you know, things 2:47:09.920 --> 2:47:12.520 that are vital components and the big tech companies Yeah, yeah, 2:47:12.560 --> 2:47:15.640 in like all of the manufacturing of like tech all 2:47:15.640 --> 2:47:17.840 over the world. If that stuff goes down, that takes 2:47:17.920 --> 2:47:20.720 the American markets with it, That takes all of all 2:47:20.760 --> 2:47:24.440 the global markets that are reliant on these AI surges 2:47:24.640 --> 2:47:27.080 go with it. And that's kind of just the beginning 2:47:27.080 --> 2:47:28.560 of the poppy of the tech bubble. 2:47:28.400 --> 2:47:29.080 Yep, yep, yep. 2:47:29.120 --> 2:47:31.160 I just wanted to get to that because it's like 2:47:31.520 --> 2:47:33.840 it is, it is this mirror of exactly what's gone 2:47:33.840 --> 2:47:36.720 on in the United States. I guess the big difference 2:47:36.760 --> 2:47:40.040 is that so far, the obvious signs of trouble in 2:47:40.080 --> 2:47:43.880 South Korea have not set off alarm bells in at 2:47:43.959 --> 2:47:46.800 least in American investors to the extent that you might expect. 2:47:47.080 --> 2:47:50.359 But I'm sure. 2:47:48.800 --> 2:47:51.480 There's been some Like it tends to be the other 2:47:51.520 --> 2:47:54.959 way around, where Cosby tends to kind of be following 2:47:54.959 --> 2:47:57.680 the American markets, But there have definitely been days where, like, 2:47:57.760 --> 2:48:00.320 because of the time difference in Korea, all of the 2:48:00.320 --> 2:48:03.360 American investors wake up to watch like ten percent going down, 2:48:03.760 --> 2:48:05.360 like ten percent of the value of the createstock market 2:48:05.400 --> 2:48:08.360 disappearing in one night, and in that lowers American stocks, 2:48:08.400 --> 2:48:10.160 and then Trump says something about the war ending and 2:48:10.200 --> 2:48:12.400 it goes back up again. So there has been some 2:48:12.600 --> 2:48:16.520 notice of it, but our grand collective delusion to maintain 2:48:16.560 --> 2:48:18.359 the functioning of capitalism continues. 2:48:19.520 --> 2:48:21.280 Great, good, good good. 2:48:22.320 --> 2:48:26.680 On Tuesday, there was a GP debate for the South 2:48:26.680 --> 2:48:30.560 Carolina US Senate special runoff election so it's a special 2:48:30.640 --> 2:48:35.280 election and a runoff. And in this debate, sister of 2:48:35.360 --> 2:48:42.039 the fallen Lindsay Graham, Darlene Graham, could not answer a 2:48:42.080 --> 2:48:45.600 pretty rudimentary foreign policy question because it is not her 2:48:46.000 --> 2:48:51.080 area of expertise. Let's take a lesson, Senator, are Taiwan 2:48:51.320 --> 2:48:54.520 and the South China Sea national security issues for the 2:48:54.600 --> 2:48:55.279 United States? 2:48:55.760 --> 2:49:00.240 If so, what, I'm sorry, could you repeat it? If 2:49:00.400 --> 2:49:04.119 our Taiwan and the South China Sea national security issues 2:49:04.120 --> 2:49:06.960 for the United States? And if so, why or how? 2:49:08.560 --> 2:49:10.000 I'm just gonna be honest here. 2:49:10.200 --> 2:49:13.520 I'm not on national security that I'm not that informed 2:49:13.520 --> 2:49:19.600 on national security. So, but I do support the military. 2:49:19.720 --> 2:49:22.959 My brother was in the Air Force for thirty three years, 2:49:23.560 --> 2:49:26.320 so I will do everything I can to support the 2:49:26.360 --> 2:49:30.280 military stuff. 2:49:30.560 --> 2:49:33.760 You know what, honesty. That's what we need in politicians, is. 2:49:33.760 --> 2:49:37.960 Hon I love hereditary seats. This is an amazing feature 2:49:38.040 --> 2:49:40.520 of what is supposed to be a representative democracy. It's 2:49:40.560 --> 2:49:41.040 so good. 2:49:42.520 --> 2:49:45.200 Yeah, yeah, I don't know shit about fuck, but I 2:49:45.240 --> 2:49:46.560 love the army. 2:49:47.520 --> 2:49:51.280 That's incredible. She later goes on to literally say it's 2:49:51.280 --> 2:49:54.520 on her quote unquote area of expertise. It just talks 2:49:54.520 --> 2:49:58.560 about how regardless, she will always support the US military. 2:49:58.720 --> 2:50:03.200 It's this is townding Lindsay Graham rolling over in his grave. 2:50:03.760 --> 2:50:07.160 So that is Darley and Graham, sister of Lindsay Graham, 2:50:07.200 --> 2:50:12.200 who is facing Republican Ralph Norman in this runoff election, 2:50:12.840 --> 2:50:15.680 the winner of which will then face the Democrat doctor 2:50:15.720 --> 2:50:20.440 Annie Andrews for this general election in November to replace 2:50:20.600 --> 2:50:21.720 Lindsay's seat. 2:50:23.120 --> 2:50:25.959 Pretty cool, God, I hope she wins the primary. I 2:50:26.000 --> 2:50:26.600 want to see more. 2:50:29.280 --> 2:50:32.199 Yeah, yeah, this will be highly amusing if nothing else. 2:50:33.920 --> 2:50:37.920 Oh man, I want to briefly mention some new information 2:50:38.120 --> 2:50:42.520 regarding the federal investigations into anti ice protests in the 2:50:42.560 --> 2:50:46.720 Twin Cities, based on some newly released court documents. This 2:50:46.879 --> 2:50:49.360 was first reported in the New York Times, and I 2:50:49.400 --> 2:50:53.040 have read through the like thirty page motion filed by 2:50:53.040 --> 2:50:56.480 the defense that unveiled these documents and a number of 2:50:56.520 --> 2:50:59.920 the thirty some exhibits. And I'll report on this in full, 2:51:00.000 --> 2:51:03.080 probably next week with its own episode. But I do 2:51:03.120 --> 2:51:04.920 want to discuss with the group here a little bit. 2:51:05.440 --> 2:51:09.920 So four days after CPB killed Alex pretty DHS open 2:51:09.959 --> 2:51:14.720 investigation into labor unions and left wing activist groups. That 2:51:14.800 --> 2:51:19.119 they thought were involved in funding the anti ICE protests 2:51:19.200 --> 2:51:25.760 and quote providing material support to violent opportunists unquote. This 2:51:26.200 --> 2:51:32.520 HSI investigation amounted to a massive spying operation called Operation 2:51:32.760 --> 2:51:38.520 puppet Master and later Operation Whipple Shield. Whipple is the 2:51:38.640 --> 2:51:42.040 name of the federal building that was at the heart 2:51:42.160 --> 2:51:45.640 of a lot of the protests in the Twin Cities. 2:51:46.240 --> 2:51:52.360 And these operations ended up probing three years of financial 2:51:52.400 --> 2:51:58.040 records from organizations like Sunrise Movement, the Communication Workers of America, 2:51:58.440 --> 2:52:01.760 and the Healthcare Union s CiU as a part of 2:52:01.760 --> 2:52:06.600 a quote unquote financial investigation into quote unquote domestic terrorist financing. 2:52:07.520 --> 2:52:09.760 I think it's really important to point out here is 2:52:09.800 --> 2:52:13.920 that this three year time span of of of documents 2:52:14.440 --> 2:52:18.520 extends far beyond the time span of Operation Metro Surge 2:52:18.520 --> 2:52:20.480 and the protests. Right this this this, this is not 2:52:20.640 --> 2:52:25.920 a probe into into financing specific protest groups responding to ICE. 2:52:26.000 --> 2:52:29.760 This is just a general drag net into labor unions, 2:52:29.800 --> 2:52:34.760 into left wing nonprofits, environmental groups, a racial justice activist 2:52:34.800 --> 2:52:37.000 group in the area like this is this is a 2:52:37.080 --> 2:52:41.240 huge probe. They're looking into VENMO transactions, They're requesting bank 2:52:41.280 --> 2:52:44.440 records like this. This is a massive probe of like the 2:52:44.440 --> 2:52:49.520 the interior of like some very major national unions. 2:52:49.840 --> 2:52:52.800 Yeah, it's interesting when you look at who they're looking into, right, 2:52:52.800 --> 2:52:57.840 because it's it's a really really wide swath like across 2:52:57.840 --> 2:52:59.959 the political spectrum of the left, like s c IU. 2:53:00.200 --> 2:53:03.000 Like obviously there are like locals of SCIU that like 2:53:03.080 --> 2:53:05.640 do good work, but like nationally, s CiU is not 2:53:05.800 --> 2:53:10.000 like a radical organization, right, Like, yeah, of the major unions, 2:53:10.000 --> 2:53:14.880 this is like an extremely extremely milk toast union, right. 2:53:15.440 --> 2:53:17.840 Yeah. I guess contacts with CiU particularly would be that 2:53:17.840 --> 2:53:21.320 they arrested David Huerta in Los Angeles in Junia of 2:53:21.480 --> 2:53:23.440 last year, right, it's union leaders. 2:53:23.600 --> 2:53:24.160 Yeah. 2:53:24.240 --> 2:53:27.199 Yeah, and I know because Alex Pretty was a healthcare worker. 2:53:27.520 --> 2:53:30.440 SIU is a healthcare union. Like I went to like 2:53:30.520 --> 2:53:33.920 a solidarity protest put together by a bunch of different 2:53:34.320 --> 2:53:38.720 unions in New York City following the death of Alex Pretty. Yeah, 2:53:38.760 --> 2:53:41.240 it's interesting that the federal government picked up on that 2:53:41.400 --> 2:53:45.760 sort of union solidarity and then started investigating it. 2:53:46.000 --> 2:53:46.240 Yeah. 2:53:46.440 --> 2:53:48.320 I think that is that is really telling. 2:53:48.640 --> 2:53:48.840 Yeah. 2:53:49.040 --> 2:53:51.119 Part of what I'm getting at here is like they're 2:53:51.160 --> 2:53:54.640 just going after everyone who's even like tangentially involved in 2:53:54.959 --> 2:53:56.039 these protests, right. 2:53:55.959 --> 2:53:58.959 Yeah, The way the state sees this is they're incapable 2:53:59.000 --> 2:54:04.480 of organizing like spontaneous and like horizontal solidarity. Are seeing that, right, 2:54:04.560 --> 2:54:07.760 they understand Yeah. SEIU folks showed up in New York 2:54:07.800 --> 2:54:10.680 where Garrison is, and I think they're not called the AFT. 2:54:10.800 --> 2:54:13.600 In Minneapolis, maybe they called the Federation of Educators or 2:54:13.640 --> 2:54:17.200 something like that. MFE looks like, yeah, like another union 2:54:17.280 --> 2:54:20.560 right for educators evidently, and fifty to fifty one and 2:54:21.120 --> 2:54:24.760 some more explicitly socialists and leftist groups showed up against us, 2:54:24.800 --> 2:54:27.080 showed up in solidarity off d alex Pretti was killed. 2:54:27.080 --> 2:54:29.240 And the way the States sees this is therefore they 2:54:29.240 --> 2:54:32.240 are nationally and vertically integrated and someone is pulling the 2:54:32.240 --> 2:54:35.720 strings and paying the funds, not like they are fucking mad. 2:54:36.480 --> 2:54:38.039 Yeah, it's like it's like the way that they see 2:54:38.080 --> 2:54:40.520 it is like, yeah, like SCIU National has like handed 2:54:40.560 --> 2:54:42.280 down like the riot orders just. 2:54:42.240 --> 2:54:46.240 Like no no CiU like, but she's right, Like that 2:54:46.320 --> 2:54:47.480 is how they understand it. 2:54:47.560 --> 2:54:51.119 If like time traveling militants for the nineteen seventies kidnapped 2:54:51.200 --> 2:54:53.560 SEIUS leadership and held them at gunpoint and said we 2:54:53.600 --> 2:54:56.200 will let you go if you order mass riots, they 2:54:56.240 --> 2:54:59.000 still wouldn't do it. Like, that's not that's not what 2:54:59.040 --> 2:55:01.840 this is. But yeah, the Feds have a hammer, and 2:55:01.879 --> 2:55:04.320 they're trying to hammer down every single thing that even 2:55:04.400 --> 2:55:06.640 vaguely looks like a nail, so they can do sort 2:55:06.640 --> 2:55:09.120 of the broadest and widest ranging oppression that they can 2:55:09.160 --> 2:55:09.600 deal with. 2:55:09.879 --> 2:55:14.359 Yeah, and we have like an example of how HSI 2:55:14.480 --> 2:55:18.400 is envisioning this sort of conspiracy like what we're talking about, 2:55:18.560 --> 2:55:21.039 because as a part of the new exhibits that were 2:55:21.120 --> 2:55:24.720 released to the public, we have this slide that was 2:55:24.840 --> 2:55:28.440 sent to grandeurors for the indictment which we'll soon talk about, 2:55:28.440 --> 2:55:32.840 that targeting fifteen protesters. The grand jury was shown this 2:55:33.000 --> 2:55:39.080 slide that is labeled the conspiracy that has about fifteen 2:55:39.240 --> 2:55:44.640 different organizations with all with arrows pointing towards Direct Action 2:55:44.800 --> 2:55:49.600 Minnesota DAM, which is the protest group that the government 2:55:49.680 --> 2:55:54.400 alleges the fifteen people indicted were involved with in some way. 2:55:55.080 --> 2:55:57.480 I want to read through some of these organizations that 2:55:57.520 --> 2:56:02.000 are part of this conspiracy diagram. There's the Monarca Rapid 2:56:02.040 --> 2:56:07.320 Response Line, There's Ray Rainbolt Memorial Gun Club, Red Pine 2:56:07.440 --> 2:56:11.959 Revolutionary Collective, SCIU twenty six showing it for racial justice, 2:56:12.120 --> 2:56:16.879 Socialist Alternative, Veterans for Peace, Whipple Watch, Workers Solidarity Circle, 2:56:17.000 --> 2:56:23.199 afl CIO, Black Cat Workers Collective, the Democratic Socialist of America, 2:56:23.640 --> 2:56:27.119 the Grease Pit, which is a local bike shop. Hell Yeah, 2:56:27.520 --> 2:56:33.000 Minute Left CHAB, Minneapolis Federation of Educators Local fifty nine, 2:56:33.200 --> 2:56:38.800 Minnesota Association of Professional Employees, Minnesota Ice Watch, and Minnesota 2:56:38.920 --> 2:56:45.320 five oh five oh one. Pretty incredible, pretty incredible collection. 2:56:46.560 --> 2:56:47.400 They're all supposed to. 2:56:47.440 --> 2:56:49.879 Be like sending like a council member. 2:56:50.120 --> 2:56:53.119 Yeah, the diagram has is that there's a council member 2:56:53.760 --> 2:56:59.599 these organizations, council that like is part of Direct Action Minnesota. 2:56:59.879 --> 2:57:04.840 It's like orchestrating all these protests. It's incredible. 2:57:05.800 --> 2:57:10.039 I love to see like kreminology overcoming like a DIY 2:57:10.200 --> 2:57:11.879 bike shop that has been for a few hours, a 2:57:11.879 --> 2:57:15.440 few afternoons a week, like it's the Pollit Bureau of 2:57:15.480 --> 2:57:18.879 Minnesota is populated by like bike co ops. 2:57:19.080 --> 2:57:21.400 It's just a shadow council, James Shadow. 2:57:22.520 --> 2:57:23.680 They're running everyway. 2:57:24.879 --> 2:57:25.640 It's incredible. 2:57:25.959 --> 2:57:28.959 This is what happens when Socialist Alternative and DSA can 2:57:29.040 --> 2:57:35.520 overcome their differences and support council comunism to tend November 2:57:35.640 --> 2:57:39.680 to Direct Action Minnesota High Council, Black and Red United. 2:57:39.800 --> 2:57:43.880 Yet it's incredible stuff. Now, of course, none of these 2:57:44.000 --> 2:57:49.080 organizations themselves have actually phased charges stemming from this investigation. 2:57:49.840 --> 2:57:54.080 But this investigation did result in fifteen people being indicted 2:57:54.120 --> 2:57:58.120 on quote, conspiracy to impede or injure a federal officer 2:57:58.720 --> 2:58:03.120 for allegedly planning to block a roadway, among a few 2:58:03.160 --> 2:58:08.280 other charges against specific individuals for participating in ice rapid response. So, 2:58:08.400 --> 2:58:12.560 although dsay the Grease Pit and like SCIU are not 2:58:12.680 --> 2:58:17.920 themselves as organizations you know charged this this sort of huge, 2:58:18.080 --> 2:58:25.080 like a very broad investigation into nonprofit organizations, into electoral organizations, 2:58:25.120 --> 2:58:29.520 into labor unions. This did result in charges against specific people, 2:58:29.959 --> 2:58:32.000 many of whom are not part of these you know, 2:58:32.120 --> 2:58:38.720 fifteen fifteen council member organizations. The defense lawyer Kevin Riach 2:58:39.320 --> 2:58:44.760 wrote in emotion, quote Homeland Security Investigations investigation extended far 2:58:44.840 --> 2:58:48.600 beyond any potential threat to law enforcement safety. It concluded, 2:58:48.720 --> 2:58:53.560 with no evidence but obvious political animus, that numerous Twin Cities, unions, 2:58:53.600 --> 2:58:57.879 and nonprofit organizations were involved in a widespread conspiracy to 2:58:58.000 --> 2:59:02.680 violate eighteen USC. One one one assaulting, resisting, or impeding 2:59:02.720 --> 2:59:07.879 certain officers or employees. And it surveilled and surptitiously gathered 2:59:07.920 --> 2:59:12.040 financial records generated by these organizations, despite the lack of 2:59:12.080 --> 2:59:15.920 any connection between those organizations and criminal conduct. 2:59:16.720 --> 2:59:19.600 Yeah, it's co intel, a pro shit. Just it never ended. 2:59:20.000 --> 2:59:23.080 They're just doing it again. I've always been doing it. 2:59:23.879 --> 2:59:26.440 Yes, And part of what these new docs reveal is 2:59:26.720 --> 2:59:29.520 is much more details on like the covert surveillance of 2:59:30.120 --> 2:59:33.960 organizer meetings at libraries and churches, and the way in 2:59:34.000 --> 2:59:39.160 the extent that Homeland Security infiltrated signal chats and how 2:59:39.360 --> 2:59:43.320 undercovers tried to entice people into discussing or committing crimes. 2:59:44.040 --> 2:59:46.560 And I want to discuss that in more detail in 2:59:46.600 --> 2:59:50.280 its own episode because I think that requires a very 2:59:50.320 --> 2:59:54.119 careful focus on how how that actually went about, because 2:59:54.160 --> 2:59:56.760 I think that can very easily be turned into you know, 2:59:56.959 --> 3:00:02.200 panicking or maybe overstating certain things regarding you know, where 3:00:02.240 --> 3:00:05.080 ICE the ones actually you know, directing all the protests 3:00:05.160 --> 3:00:08.160 against Ice, and like no, obviously not so. I think 3:00:08.160 --> 3:00:11.400 that that requires a distinct focus. Specifically in these core documents, 3:00:11.440 --> 3:00:16.640 there's there's a there's a reference to an undercover discussing 3:00:16.680 --> 3:00:21.000 with someone at like a Sunrise Movement meeting about getting 3:00:21.000 --> 3:00:23.960 more involved in direct actions and and maybe building quote 3:00:24.000 --> 3:00:28.280 unquote devices for direct actions. So like it's it's that 3:00:28.360 --> 3:00:30.040 kind of stuff, and I want to discuss that more 3:00:30.080 --> 3:00:32.280 in detail. But this new batchel of core documents in 3:00:32.280 --> 3:00:34.920 this case has revealed a lot about about how this 3:00:34.959 --> 3:00:39.240 investigation went. How it started off very very broad against 3:00:39.280 --> 3:00:41.400 a lot of organizations and like what you know, national 3:00:41.440 --> 3:00:44.600 Security Presidential Memory dem number seven wrote about, you know, 3:00:44.800 --> 3:00:48.000 looking to the finances of a lot of different nonprofit groups, 3:00:48.680 --> 3:00:51.400 but then from there realizing that maybe they are not 3:00:51.440 --> 3:00:53.720 going to be able to prosecute all these unions for 3:00:53.840 --> 3:00:58.720 terrorist financing. Instead they find fifteen people who are engaged 3:00:58.760 --> 3:01:01.440 in firstmen in activity that they think they could maybe 3:01:01.560 --> 3:01:05.520 you know, turn into an Antifa boogeyman and get that 3:01:05.600 --> 3:01:09.039 pastor grand jury, because you certainly couldnot get the rest 3:01:09.080 --> 3:01:11.519 of this shit past a grand jury. Yeah. 3:01:11.560 --> 3:01:15.480 Talking of like pushing the boundaries of the Constitution with 3:01:15.520 --> 3:01:17.879 regards to policing as a good tie into this next 3:01:17.879 --> 3:01:20.040 piece that I have, which is to talk about the 3:01:20.120 --> 3:01:23.119 national defense areas. So the DOJ has issued a new 3:01:23.120 --> 3:01:26.280 opinion this week suggesting the military forces in the National 3:01:26.360 --> 3:01:29.039 Defense Areas that span that much of the border can 3:01:29.120 --> 3:01:33.160 now detain people not just inside the NDA but also 3:01:33.800 --> 3:01:36.199 near the NDA who leave it before they have time 3:01:36.240 --> 3:01:39.840 to arrest them. If you're not familiar with the NDA, 3:01:40.000 --> 3:01:42.760 these areas along the border wall that have been transferred 3:01:42.840 --> 3:01:45.920 to the military and are being managed as extensions of 3:01:46.000 --> 3:01:50.240 military basis. For example, NDA number three, the California NDA 3:01:50.600 --> 3:01:53.240 begins I think at the western edge of Oti mount 3:01:53.280 --> 3:01:55.600 of Wilderness, stretches all the way to the Arizona border 3:01:55.600 --> 3:01:59.920 in Imperial County. That is an extension of nafeal Center, 3:02:00.160 --> 3:02:03.720 so that's Naval Air Facility EL Center, so that's patrolled 3:02:03.760 --> 3:02:07.959 by marines. The New Mexico one is an extension of 3:02:08.040 --> 3:02:11.720 Fort Huachuca and that's patrolled by the Army. There is 3:02:11.800 --> 3:02:15.240 one in Texas which is an extension of Fort Bliss 3:02:15.600 --> 3:02:19.400 for Bliss Spanzer's two states, but that goes that NDA 3:02:19.480 --> 3:02:25.760 goes into Texas. More the bases themselves are being extended. Therefore, 3:02:26.480 --> 3:02:30.760 the logic goes from the Justice Department that they are 3:02:30.840 --> 3:02:36.080 not violating the Posscomatatis Act because there are recognized exemptions 3:02:36.080 --> 3:02:40.120 they say for military installations so they're saying because the 3:02:40.240 --> 3:02:45.240 base is being extended to generally but not always, it 3:02:45.320 --> 3:02:47.680 is the Roosevelt Reservation, right, which is a sixty foot 3:02:47.720 --> 3:02:51.360 area to the north of the physical border, but some 3:02:51.440 --> 3:02:55.560 of these NDA's span areas larger than that. They are 3:02:55.600 --> 3:03:00.800 claiming that that area is therefore exempt from PCA if 3:03:00.800 --> 3:03:05.400 the military is prosecuting or in this case, arresting or 3:03:05.440 --> 3:03:09.760 detaining people for trespassing on a military installation, right, they 3:03:09.840 --> 3:03:12.120 think that the military can also enforce federal law on 3:03:12.160 --> 3:03:19.440 its installations. So by definition, anyone ewie entry without inspection, right, 3:03:19.480 --> 3:03:23.040 So thatt, someone entering between ports of entry, anybody doing 3:03:23.080 --> 3:03:26.360 that in an NDA, which is a large amount of 3:03:26.440 --> 3:03:29.439 southern border right now, would be trespassing on a military installation. 3:03:29.680 --> 3:03:29.840 Right. 3:03:30.320 --> 3:03:32.320 You can also see in this opinion they they're like 3:03:32.400 --> 3:03:36.640 hinting it adding more NDAs soon. This is the same 3:03:36.800 --> 3:03:40.320 legal reasoning that they are using. Claim it is illegal 3:03:40.320 --> 3:03:44.160 to photograph things inside an NDA. I think this one 3:03:44.200 --> 3:03:48.440 is incredibly suspect. Right, So the statutory law does ban 3:03:48.520 --> 3:03:52.360 photography of quote, certain vital military or naval installations or equipment. 3:03:53.080 --> 3:03:55.360 But I think you'd have a very hard time arguing 3:03:55.400 --> 3:03:57.600 in call that like a pile of razor wire and 3:03:57.680 --> 3:04:01.600 some rocks, is vital military equips. But that's what they're 3:04:01.640 --> 3:04:04.879 going with, right. This is important because what we are 3:04:04.959 --> 3:04:08.640 seeing here is a Trump administration pushing at the boundaries 3:04:08.640 --> 3:04:11.640 of constitutionally what it can do. And as I've said 3:04:11.840 --> 3:04:14.320 hundreds of times on this show of the last four years, 3:04:14.400 --> 3:04:17.960 this always starts at the border, and it never stays 3:04:18.000 --> 3:04:18.640 at the border. 3:04:18.800 --> 3:04:19.000 Right. 3:04:19.520 --> 3:04:22.120 Everything we see with mass surveillance now has been a 3:04:22.120 --> 3:04:26.520 reality in border communities for some time. Everything we see 3:04:26.520 --> 3:04:30.760 with the increased presence of ice of CBP, this has 3:04:30.760 --> 3:04:32.920 been something that border communities have dealt with, right, This 3:04:33.280 --> 3:04:37.080 particularly violent form of law enforcement that is particularly unaccountable. 3:04:37.800 --> 3:04:40.119 If we see this at the border, and they get 3:04:40.120 --> 3:04:41.879 away with it at the border, then I'm sure it 3:04:41.920 --> 3:04:45.160 will continue in other places. It doesn't take like a 3:04:45.200 --> 3:04:47.680 brain genius to look at, for instance, what happened in 3:04:47.720 --> 3:04:50.760 Portland six years ago, right, and see how we could 3:04:50.920 --> 3:04:55.960 edge towards the PCA Poscombat Artist Act waivers in other 3:04:56.000 --> 3:04:59.119 parts of the United States as well. So I think 3:04:59.120 --> 3:05:01.240 this is worth keeping an ion, and like I would 3:05:01.320 --> 3:05:03.279 like it to get more attention in reporting. 3:05:04.080 --> 3:05:06.640 Let's go on add break, and then we'll discuss in 3:05:06.680 --> 3:05:10.080 honor of Lindsay Graham, the US military. 3:05:09.560 --> 3:05:11.120 Who we support, but we don't know where they go. 3:05:24.240 --> 3:05:27.520 All right, there's a lot of military news this week. 3:05:28.520 --> 3:05:30.680 That ship does not look like it's doing too well. 3:05:31.160 --> 3:05:32.560 Let's let's start with the sad boat. 3:05:32.640 --> 3:05:36.000 That was sad boat? Anyone here old enough to have 3:05:36.040 --> 3:05:37.640 watched the Love Boat on Nick at Night? 3:05:37.720 --> 3:05:38.000 No? 3:05:38.000 --> 3:05:39.560 No, no, okay, all right. 3:05:39.480 --> 3:05:41.519 Well he didn't have that where I grew out, Robert. 3:05:41.520 --> 3:05:46.440 Okay, that's hurtful. This is all very hurtful. Anyway, The 3:05:46.520 --> 3:05:48.680 sad boat is the USS Abraham Lincoln. 3:05:48.959 --> 3:05:50.160 How sad is this? 3:05:50.440 --> 3:05:52.520 Yeah? Yeah, where is it? 3:05:52.520 --> 3:05:55.160 Ape said, well, well, yeah, miya, you want to you 3:05:55.200 --> 3:05:55.720 want to start? 3:05:56.440 --> 3:05:58.880 Yeah, so so the US Abraham Lincoln. It's it's actually 3:05:58.920 --> 3:06:02.160 funny because we have now reached a point where when 3:06:02.160 --> 3:06:04.920 you say the sad boat, I actually couldn't tell which 3:06:04.959 --> 3:06:07.039 of the boats you were referring to, because. 3:06:06.840 --> 3:06:09.760 It was the Jerry Ford before it was the Abraham Lincoln, 3:06:09.840 --> 3:06:12.000 and the gerald Ford had longer to be sad. 3:06:12.280 --> 3:06:15.600 Well, there was also a destroyer this playing this all 3:06:15.600 --> 3:06:17.119 trying to see where the power. 3:06:16.879 --> 3:06:17.840 Was out for three days? 3:06:17.959 --> 3:06:20.039 Oh yeah, they didn't have running water. 3:06:22.080 --> 3:06:23.920 Which one was it where they were blocking up all 3:06:23.920 --> 3:06:26.560 the toilets, but like jamming, there was toilet paper. 3:06:26.600 --> 3:06:29.360 That's the Jerry Ford and I think the Lincoln, all 3:06:29.400 --> 3:06:33.440 of our newest supercarriers have serious issues with the bathroom plumbt. 3:06:33.480 --> 3:06:37.120 Yeah, so the primary means of First Amendment expression that 3:06:37.200 --> 3:06:38.360 is available to say, well. 3:06:38.360 --> 3:06:41.800 They practice the two man poop over the side technique, 3:06:41.800 --> 3:06:43.840 which is an actual thing they have to do whenever 3:06:43.879 --> 3:06:44.959 the bathrooms don't work. 3:06:45.680 --> 3:06:48.640 Which it's so funny reading about these ships and being 3:06:48.720 --> 3:06:52.279 like this, this is shit from like my like slumlord 3:06:52.320 --> 3:06:55.240 fucking apartments in Chicago. 3:06:56.360 --> 3:06:58.320 Except for the Dods your slum lord. 3:06:59.120 --> 3:07:04.240 Yeah, happening award like the most like the most advanced 3:07:04.240 --> 3:07:08.440 and expensive military and human history. Oh god, where do 3:07:08.480 --> 3:07:11.480 we even want to start with with the USS Abraham Lincoln. 3:07:12.280 --> 3:07:14.320 I I guess, I guess, I guess we could start 3:07:14.360 --> 3:07:17.320 with the fact that they have been hanging nets over 3:07:17.400 --> 3:07:21.880 the side of of the aircraft carrier because sailors keep 3:07:21.920 --> 3:07:25.560 trying to jump off to kill themselves, a thing that 3:07:25.640 --> 3:07:29.600 I last saw with like Fox Confactories and Shenzen. 3:07:29.920 --> 3:07:31.160 Yeah, that's the last time I heard that. 3:07:31.200 --> 3:07:34.520 As well, yeah, but at least in Shenzend, to my knowledge, 3:07:34.760 --> 3:07:37.440 nobody is shitting into the nets, which appears to be 3:07:37.480 --> 3:07:38.520 from what Roba has said. 3:07:39.120 --> 3:07:41.240 You know, the shitting would be incidental. 3:07:41.760 --> 3:07:45.080 We have covered on this show before. I think it 3:07:45.160 --> 3:07:49.240 was was it ten, I think was the one where 3:07:49.280 --> 3:07:52.240 they're they're there their Chinese branch had like timers over 3:07:52.280 --> 3:07:55.760 the toilets to show how long you say that would 3:07:55.840 --> 3:07:58.480 not would not rule that out in Shenzend as well. 3:07:59.520 --> 3:08:02.679 Yeah, but this ship has not been getting resupplied. 3:08:03.360 --> 3:08:07.879 It has been out for significantly longer than the the 3:08:08.000 --> 3:08:11.160 original plant duration. The sailors are just kind of trapped 3:08:11.200 --> 3:08:14.560 on board. Sailors who have you know, attempted to commit 3:08:14.600 --> 3:08:17.720 suicide because they've been stuck on this fucking ship are 3:08:18.120 --> 3:08:22.360 getting like like their careers destroyed because of this. Oh wow, 3:08:22.760 --> 3:08:26.440 it's just a nightmare. And this this is running into 3:08:26.440 --> 3:08:27.960 one of the what I guess is turning into one 3:08:27.959 --> 3:08:29.840 of the themes of this week's episode, which is that 3:08:30.400 --> 3:08:33.520 there are a whole bunch of elements of the US 3:08:33.680 --> 3:08:37.600 Navy and also of the world economy where them functioning 3:08:37.600 --> 3:08:40.320 correctly are based on the US not fighting of forever 3:08:40.360 --> 3:08:42.240 war in Iran and are based on the assumption that 3:08:42.280 --> 3:08:45.200 eventually this is going to end. Yeah, and it's just not. 3:08:45.879 --> 3:08:49.480 And so this ship is just also just physically breaking down. 3:08:49.760 --> 3:08:53.120 Well yeah, they're running low on all of the necessities. 3:08:53.640 --> 3:08:56.280 And part of that is because of the success of 3:08:56.320 --> 3:09:00.240 Arod's attacks on bases like US bases overseas and US 3:09:00.320 --> 3:09:01.760 basis in like foreign countries. 3:09:02.680 --> 3:09:04.280 There was an. 3:09:03.760 --> 3:09:06.120 Article that came out just within the last couple of 3:09:06.200 --> 3:09:10.040 days on August fourteenth in The New York Times by 3:09:10.120 --> 3:09:13.119 John i Ismay that traced a lot of the supply 3:09:13.240 --> 3:09:15.520 issues that the Abraham Lincoln's been having for its entire 3:09:15.560 --> 3:09:18.199 deployment to like right after the first day of the war, 3:09:18.280 --> 3:09:21.240 when Iran launched a massive attack on a US Navy 3:09:21.240 --> 3:09:24.560 base in Bahrain, which destroyed a massive logistics hub that 3:09:24.560 --> 3:09:26.840 the Navy has relied on basically the entirety of the 3:09:26.879 --> 3:09:29.440 Global War on tear up to the present moment, and 3:09:29.440 --> 3:09:31.840 that's what's forced them to switch over to using Diego 3:09:32.120 --> 3:09:35.520 Garcia as a supply hub. If you remember, Keir Starmer 3:09:35.600 --> 3:09:37.840 over in the UK initially was like, no, you guys 3:09:37.879 --> 3:09:41.520 can't use Diego Garcia as like the supply hub for 3:09:41.560 --> 3:09:44.560 your legal war, and then immediately changed his mind when 3:09:44.560 --> 3:09:48.440 he got threatened a little bit, bravest, who are in 3:09:48.520 --> 3:09:49.120 good stuff? 3:09:49.200 --> 3:09:49.840 Good stuff? 3:09:50.320 --> 3:09:50.520 Yeah? 3:09:50.760 --> 3:09:54.440 I think, like, I mean, it's so obvious right that Iran, 3:09:54.560 --> 3:09:57.480 a country which like the US, has been saber rattling 3:09:57.480 --> 3:10:00.360 out for decades, would very obviously have a plan of 3:10:00.360 --> 3:10:02.560 what to do in the event that the United States 3:10:02.600 --> 3:10:06.440 struck it and they executed that plan. Yeah. 3:10:06.480 --> 3:10:10.000 Trump, for his part, has repeatedly stated that the length 3:10:10.040 --> 3:10:12.199 of the deployment of the Lincoln and the forward before 3:10:12.240 --> 3:10:15.879 it are not big deals. When he was asked earlier 3:10:15.920 --> 3:10:19.440 this week if carry deployments were too long, he responded, no, no, no, 3:10:19.560 --> 3:10:20.800 not nearly long enough. 3:10:21.480 --> 3:10:23.240 See, he's really going to get into it with Lindy 3:10:23.240 --> 3:10:24.680 Graham's sister over this one. 3:10:25.280 --> 3:10:28.920 No, He's It's also he's just been very personally meddling 3:10:28.959 --> 3:10:30.879 with and fucking with a bunch of Navy stuff that 3:10:31.120 --> 3:10:33.039 there's a whole kind of there's a whole kind of 3:10:33.080 --> 3:10:35.520 side drama to this story where Trump has ordered the 3:10:35.600 --> 3:10:38.000 Navy to go back to using steam catapults to like 3:10:38.160 --> 3:10:40.440 launch aircraft off of the deck of the ship, which 3:10:40.480 --> 3:10:45.680 is like a significantly worse thing than the electromagnetic systems 3:10:45.680 --> 3:10:47.879 that the Navy has been using. But Trump like heard 3:10:48.400 --> 3:10:51.720 that that some pilot liked them a long time ago, 3:10:51.760 --> 3:10:53.720 and so he's been trying to force the entire Navy 3:10:53.760 --> 3:10:56.520 to do this since the first administration, and he's finally succeeded, 3:10:56.560 --> 3:10:58.560 which means you're going to have to like refit like 3:10:58.640 --> 3:11:01.160 forty percent of the ship and they're probably gonna have 3:11:01.240 --> 3:11:03.960 just design new ships because the ships are not designed 3:11:04.000 --> 3:11:05.600 around having these things, and they're just going to be 3:11:05.720 --> 3:11:09.720 worse because the Emperor has decided that he likes steam catapults. 3:11:11.760 --> 3:11:13.720 Oh yeah, no, no, no, there's a there's a piece 3:11:13.720 --> 3:11:16.400 in the Guardia. Just about a week ago, Trump orders 3:11:16.440 --> 3:11:19.720 Pentagon to redesigned US aircraft carriers to use steam catapult 3:11:19.760 --> 3:11:20.560 solage tests. 3:11:21.080 --> 3:11:21.879 Yep, yep, yep. 3:11:22.040 --> 3:11:24.680 Yeah, because he thought the digital systems were too complicated. 3:11:24.800 --> 3:11:27.000 I had missed this and the long list of like 3:11:27.080 --> 3:11:29.640 bullshit which in the same military stuff. 3:11:30.080 --> 3:11:30.320 Reason. 3:11:30.520 --> 3:11:31.240 Yeah. 3:11:31.320 --> 3:11:31.520 Yeah. 3:11:31.520 --> 3:11:34.720 He signed a National Security memorandum directing Pete Hegseth and 3:11:34.760 --> 3:11:38.120 the acting Navy Secretary to make this change. That's great, 3:11:38.280 --> 3:11:38.720 that's good. 3:11:38.879 --> 3:11:42.200 It's this astonishing combination of like she's she's made the 3:11:42.600 --> 3:11:45.720 cardinal mistake that all of these people make, which is 3:11:45.720 --> 3:11:49.800 that American military and economic supremacy is premised on having 3:11:49.840 --> 3:11:53.480 the world's most expensive army and not using it. Yeah, 3:11:53.520 --> 3:11:57.720 and now he's used it. And then also he's doing 3:11:57.760 --> 3:12:00.600 all of this weird emperor fucking with stuff at the 3:12:00.600 --> 3:12:01.240 same time. 3:12:02.480 --> 3:12:05.280 There's amazing quotes from this Apparently it started back in 3:12:05.360 --> 3:12:08.720 twenty seventeen what he told Time magazine about a conversation 3:12:08.840 --> 3:12:10.959 that he'd had with an unnamed Navy officer. 3:12:11.120 --> 3:12:11.440 Quote. 3:12:11.480 --> 3:12:14.000 So, I said, what's this, sir, This is our digital 3:12:14.000 --> 3:12:17.320 catapult system. Trump went on. It sounded bad to me. Digital. 3:12:17.360 --> 3:12:20.119 They have digital? What is digital? And it's very complicated. 3:12:20.240 --> 3:12:22.119 You have to be auured Einstein to figure it out. 3:12:22.240 --> 3:12:23.920 And I said, and now they want to buy more 3:12:23.959 --> 3:12:26.760 aircraft carriers. I said, what system are you going to be, sir? 3:12:26.840 --> 3:12:29.000 We're staying with digital. I said, no, you're not. You're 3:12:29.040 --> 3:12:31.959 going to goddamn steam. The digital costs hundreds of millions 3:12:31.959 --> 3:12:33.440 of dollars more money, and it's no good. 3:12:35.240 --> 3:12:38.520 He's also trying to get them to move the fucking 3:12:38.640 --> 3:12:42.039 control tower of the aircraft carries into the middle of 3:12:42.080 --> 3:12:44.880 the ship. According to the Washington Post. 3:12:45.240 --> 3:12:47.920 This is beautiful stuff. I hope he gets his way. 3:12:48.040 --> 3:12:49.959 I hope he gets his way to'll protect the rest of. 3:12:49.959 --> 3:12:50.760 The world from us? 3:12:51.280 --> 3:12:52.560 Yeah, the rest of the world would do better v 3:12:52.560 --> 3:12:56.240 all these ships when not deployed. Right now. This is yeah, outstanding, 3:12:56.400 --> 3:12:58.600 great stuff, a great, amazing shit. 3:13:00.200 --> 3:13:01.360 God, very normal. 3:13:01.440 --> 3:13:04.360 This is this is how successful military is organized. 3:13:04.480 --> 3:13:04.840 Yeah. 3:13:05.320 --> 3:13:08.760 I should point out that, like the latest statistics on 3:13:08.879 --> 3:13:12.240 people wounded in action now suggested they're about seven hundred 3:13:12.480 --> 3:13:15.240 US service people who've been wounded in a six month operation. 3:13:15.959 --> 3:13:20.520 Allegedly, the Washington is coming in to replace the Lincoln. 3:13:21.080 --> 3:13:23.880 Unclear what will happen to the destroyers and also unclear 3:13:24.440 --> 3:13:26.080 when this is actually going to happen. 3:13:26.320 --> 3:13:28.119 The destroyers have to come back so they can put 3:13:28.160 --> 3:13:31.000 a mast on them, yeah, because that looks more epic, 3:13:31.080 --> 3:13:33.400 and a big fucking cannon, like a black powder cannon 3:13:33.440 --> 3:13:33.920 on the front. 3:13:34.120 --> 3:13:34.400 Yeah. 3:13:34.440 --> 3:13:37.360 The last I heard from Trump, he said that a 3:13:37.400 --> 3:13:40.959 replacement for the Lincoln is quote moving right now or 3:13:41.080 --> 3:13:43.959 very shortly, and it's being replaced with another very similar ship. 3:13:44.640 --> 3:13:48.600 So that's what we've got so far. It is worth noting, 3:13:48.680 --> 3:13:50.720 just in terms of a general update on the situation, 3:13:50.959 --> 3:13:54.400 in Iran, that the ceasefire that no one has really 3:13:54.440 --> 3:13:57.840 been holding to has come to an end or is 3:13:58.240 --> 3:14:00.360 in the process of coming to an end, and does 3:14:00.400 --> 3:14:01.920 not look like it's going to be renewed. 3:14:02.760 --> 3:14:04.240 For all of the good that. 3:14:04.000 --> 3:14:08.160 That did everybody over the last sixty days or so, Yeah, 3:14:08.200 --> 3:14:10.880 the Trump administration has gone back and forth. Up until 3:14:10.920 --> 3:14:12.840 earlier this week, he had been claiming that he was 3:14:12.840 --> 3:14:15.560 in that the US was in active talks with Iran, 3:14:16.240 --> 3:14:18.240 but he said earlier this Tuesday that the US is 3:14:18.320 --> 3:14:20.199 not in any talks with Iran and has no plans 3:14:20.200 --> 3:14:23.320 to start new ones. This is around the same time 3:14:23.400 --> 3:14:25.360 that he started saying that the Strait of Horror Moves 3:14:25.520 --> 3:14:27.280 is open and that the US is going to take 3:14:27.280 --> 3:14:30.160 it and make it a new US territory. This has 3:14:30.560 --> 3:14:33.279 just been something he released as a series of truth 3:14:33.400 --> 3:14:38.160 posts or truths, including one showing a map that circled 3:14:38.520 --> 3:14:40.600 the Strait of Horror Moves with the words new US 3:14:40.720 --> 3:14:46.879 territory Straight of horm Moves above and below it. So, again, 3:14:47.080 --> 3:14:50.520 hard to say what's gonna happen here other than that 3:14:50.560 --> 3:14:53.959 oil prices are continuing to rise. The same day that 3:14:54.040 --> 3:14:56.840 he announced that there was no we're no talks going on, 3:14:56.879 --> 3:14:58.800 and that the ceasefire was not going to be extended. 3:14:59.760 --> 3:15:03.320 Four is fired on a Panama flagged ship, and around 3:15:03.360 --> 3:15:06.920 the same time Iran struck a ship as well, killing 3:15:06.920 --> 3:15:10.800 at least one sailor. Since the war began, seventeen sailors 3:15:10.840 --> 3:15:13.600 have been killed in sixty five attacks. Most of those 3:15:13.600 --> 3:15:15.440 have been the result of Ranian strikes, but three of 3:15:15.480 --> 3:15:18.280 those deaths have been caused by a US Navy ship 3:15:18.320 --> 3:15:22.120 that struck a merchant ship in June. So sailors are 3:15:22.120 --> 3:15:25.720 getting killed all around the USS. Abraham Lincoln's probably getting 3:15:25.800 --> 3:15:29.920 rotated out. The CeaseFire's over, and I guess we're trying 3:15:29.920 --> 3:15:31.800 to take this straight although it's I mean, there's no 3:15:31.840 --> 3:15:33.800 way to know what any of this actually means or 3:15:33.800 --> 3:15:36.000 what Trump's going to do. He could announce that they've 3:15:36.000 --> 3:15:39.119 got a new ceasefire tomorrow, like it would be silly 3:15:39.160 --> 3:15:42.600 to take any of this as a final word on anything. 3:15:43.000 --> 3:15:44.800 Yeah, let me pick up on that where Robot left 3:15:44.800 --> 3:15:47.120 off fairly, it does appay of it. In response to 3:15:47.120 --> 3:15:51.400 Trump continuing to just post insane stuff, Iran has been 3:15:51.400 --> 3:15:55.720 having talks with Aman, probably talking about like joint tolling 3:15:55.879 --> 3:15:57.520 the Strait, right, which is something we spoken about a 3:15:57.560 --> 3:15:59.920 lot in this podcast. Trump get interview with Trey Yinks. 3:16:00.200 --> 3:16:02.400 If you're not familiar with tree Yinks, his job is 3:16:02.440 --> 3:16:05.439 to kind of be a credulous, nodding head to broadcast 3:16:05.440 --> 3:16:09.720 ship that Donald Trump says his chief foreign correspondent Fox Now. 3:16:09.720 --> 3:16:11.960 I asked the President about these parallel talks that are 3:16:12.000 --> 3:16:15.480 taking place between Iran and Oman about control of the 3:16:15.520 --> 3:16:18.360 Strait of horror moves, and the President told Fox News, 3:16:18.440 --> 3:16:21.280 if Oman gets in the way, will bomb the s 3:16:21.440 --> 3:16:23.080 out of them. 3:16:23.120 --> 3:16:26.080 That is Donald Trump threatening to bomb the shit out 3:16:26.120 --> 3:16:30.160 of a man. A fantastic u turn in the United 3:16:30.200 --> 3:16:33.480 States policy. This is a wild thing for him to 3:16:33.520 --> 3:16:36.160 be saying. Right, this is a country that obviously the 3:16:36.200 --> 3:16:37.879 US has had previously good relations with. 3:16:38.200 --> 3:16:40.440 Yeah, this is this is like a CIA outpost, like. 3:16:40.760 --> 3:16:43.600 Brand new country to do to do Middle East war with. Yeah, 3:16:43.640 --> 3:16:46.080 exactly right. We've we're running out of countries. We're having 3:16:46.160 --> 3:16:49.200 to turn on our own. Trump has also claimed in 3:16:49.240 --> 3:16:51.400 the same interview as tree Yinks, he has a back 3:16:51.520 --> 3:16:52.760 channel to the IRGC. 3:16:53.360 --> 3:16:56.520 Interestingly, President Trump confirmed to Fox News that there is 3:16:56.560 --> 3:16:59.800 a back channel with the IRGC. These are the hard 3:16:59.840 --> 3:17:03.720 line officials inside of Iran, and that the United States 3:17:03.760 --> 3:17:07.920 and officials in Washington are speaking directly with IRGC officials 3:17:07.959 --> 3:17:08.520 in Iran. 3:17:09.280 --> 3:17:11.680 So yeah, there he's talking about the United States negotiate 3:17:11.760 --> 3:17:16.280 directly with IIGC. I would assume that they have had 3:17:16.320 --> 3:17:18.520 back channels in the IIGC, right like that, That is 3:17:18.560 --> 3:17:21.840 something one would assume. Yeah, this is very normal when 3:17:21.879 --> 3:17:24.199 you have two states of this size which are frequently 3:17:24.280 --> 3:17:26.680 kind of squaring off against each other, and generally it 3:17:26.720 --> 3:17:28.680 is something that can be used to de escalate conflict. 3:17:28.680 --> 3:17:32.800 Obviously that ain't happening right now. It was later reported 3:17:33.240 --> 3:17:34.880 that these and you don't have to be a brain 3:17:34.920 --> 3:17:36.480 genius to work out that he's probably came through the 3:17:36.560 --> 3:17:41.039 Kurdistan Region of Iraq, right, southern Kurdistan. In related news, 3:17:41.400 --> 3:17:46.120 Iran then attempted a drone strike on Barzani. What, yes, President, 3:17:46.120 --> 3:17:47.920 that the Kurdistan reaching in of Iraq. Yeah, they sent 3:17:48.000 --> 3:17:51.959 two drones to Barzani's residents, I believe. 3:17:52.320 --> 3:17:53.080 What the fuck? 3:17:53.640 --> 3:17:55.760 Yeah, sorry I missed this. Why was this not for 3:17:55.840 --> 3:17:56.320 a pigeon? 3:17:56.400 --> 3:17:57.240 What the hell? 3:17:57.760 --> 3:18:00.880 Yes, they sent two drones to the office of the 3:18:00.959 --> 3:18:04.240 Kurdstan Region Prime Minister of sul Basani and the residents 3:18:04.240 --> 3:18:07.160 of the head of the Kurdistan Region Security Agency. The 3:18:07.280 --> 3:18:10.800 drones obviously did not cause any casualty. They think they 3:18:10.800 --> 3:18:14.520 were intercepted. This was reported by Axios right that this 3:18:14.959 --> 3:18:19.160 link between Southern Kordistan and the ILGC back channel was 3:18:19.160 --> 3:18:22.920 reported by Axios on the sixteenth, and then on the seventeenth, 3:18:23.160 --> 3:18:27.520 Iran attempted to drone strike Masoul Bazani, the Prime Minister 3:18:27.600 --> 3:18:30.720 of the Kurdistan Region of Iraq. Yeah, they attempted to 3:18:30.800 --> 3:18:33.160 drones strike his office and the residents of the Kurdstan 3:18:33.200 --> 3:18:37.000 Regions Security Agency, both in the Abil Province of Kurdistan. 3:18:37.400 --> 3:18:41.000 And like this again is like I've reported extensively. I 3:18:41.000 --> 3:18:44.000 think that Iran is bombing southern Kordistan and has been 3:18:44.000 --> 3:18:46.760 for some time. But this is a hell of an escalation. 3:18:47.120 --> 3:18:49.200 Yeah, try to was sad, like, but Brazoni is like 3:18:49.360 --> 3:18:52.920 the political figure in this part of Kurdistan. Like yeah, 3:18:52.959 --> 3:18:55.640 and like the Brazoni family has been has been a 3:18:55.640 --> 3:18:58.279 political faction powerful enough that like a lot of politics 3:18:58.320 --> 3:19:00.680 revolves around whether you're not you're like in their client 3:19:00.720 --> 3:19:04.800 networks for a long long time. This is this is 3:19:04.879 --> 3:19:06.760 kind of like trying to like, I mean again, he 3:19:06.840 --> 3:19:08.879 literally is like the prime minister of rocket cursion like this, 3:19:08.879 --> 3:19:11.520 this is like attempting to assassinate the Prime minister. Yeah, yeah, 3:19:12.000 --> 3:19:13.080 staggering escalation. 3:19:13.800 --> 3:19:19.160 Like Bazani zeated I tweeted next that it was dangerous escalation, 3:19:19.240 --> 3:19:21.600 a direct threat to the security instability of the curds 3:19:21.600 --> 3:19:22.600 down region. He's not wrong. 3:19:23.080 --> 3:19:23.560 Yeah. 3:19:23.800 --> 3:19:26.080 When you combine this with the US having a scheduled 3:19:26.360 --> 3:19:30.280 withdrawal from Iraq, right, like this is bad, and like 3:19:30.840 --> 3:19:32.879 it is very clear that Iraq is continuing and even 3:19:33.000 --> 3:19:36.520 escalating its policy of punishing the curds for the United 3:19:36.560 --> 3:19:39.360 States aggression. Right, there's this perception that the curds in 3:19:39.480 --> 3:19:43.680 US are like always aligned. As Roberts said, Iran has 3:19:43.680 --> 3:19:46.600 continued to strike vessals and straightform moves. What's interesting about 3:19:46.680 --> 3:19:49.840 this recent strike and the number of strikes that came 3:19:49.879 --> 3:19:52.920 in the days before it is that normally there has 3:19:52.920 --> 3:19:58.400 been a pattern by which the bombing relaxes. Iran strikes 3:19:58.440 --> 3:20:04.360 a vessel, the US Iran things peter out lower intensity, 3:20:04.600 --> 3:20:08.280 Iran strikes a vessel, the US hits Iran, right, Like, yeah, yeah, 3:20:08.760 --> 3:20:11.680 the US has not hit Iran yet. In response to 3:20:11.720 --> 3:20:15.280 these most recent ones. And I think part of the 3:20:15.320 --> 3:20:18.440 reason that might be is something we've talked about before 3:20:19.080 --> 3:20:23.360 that the United States is not capable now of doing 3:20:23.400 --> 3:20:27.840 what it did in February, Like it has significantly diminished 3:20:28.080 --> 3:20:29.840 it's stockpiles. 3:20:29.440 --> 3:20:32.760 Yeah, by an estimate around seventy percent plus depending on 3:20:32.840 --> 3:20:35.520 the munition. In terms of like our long range like 3:20:35.640 --> 3:20:37.400 cruise missiles and our interceptors. 3:20:37.680 --> 3:20:40.039 Yeah, it's so like just to de jug in that 3:20:40.080 --> 3:20:43.000 for people, that's like attack and defense. Right, it's your 3:20:43.040 --> 3:20:46.039 ability to hit Iran and also your ability to stop Iranian. 3:20:46.480 --> 3:20:48.680 It's all the stuff that lets us hit Iran without 3:20:48.920 --> 3:20:52.800 endangering the lives of US airmen, And it's what allows 3:20:52.879 --> 3:20:56.680 us to defend our bases and all of the Allied 3:20:56.760 --> 3:21:00.720 bases and increasingly fuel infrastructure in the region. 3:21:01.000 --> 3:21:01.160 Right. 3:21:01.520 --> 3:21:04.320 And it's low enough that in part why they don't 3:21:04.320 --> 3:21:06.560 want to continue burning more, even though they have like 3:21:06.640 --> 3:21:09.280 a third or more left, is that they have to 3:21:09.400 --> 3:21:12.280 keep a stockpile in case shit goes down with China 3:21:12.600 --> 3:21:15.160 or you know, expands with Russia. Right, Like these are 3:21:15.200 --> 3:21:20.920 our primary weapons with Iran, they're completely unnecessary. 3:21:20.120 --> 3:21:23.920 Or a mon yeah, or are new Earth amont. Yeah, 3:21:23.959 --> 3:21:24.680 if we were. 3:21:24.520 --> 3:21:28.039 To theoretically get into any kind of anything approaching a 3:21:28.160 --> 3:21:30.959 near peer conflict on a good spot. It would be 3:21:31.000 --> 3:21:32.879 our only weapons other than nukes. 3:21:33.240 --> 3:21:35.200 Yeah. So I know we're going to come back to 3:21:35.440 --> 3:21:39.120 the US defense procurement situation. But I do want to 3:21:39.120 --> 3:21:42.080 just point out that the President. I don't know if 3:21:42.080 --> 3:21:45.120 this is related to the fact that gas prices are 3:21:45.120 --> 3:21:48.360 still bonkers six month into this, but he has posted 3:21:48.400 --> 3:21:50.680 an a image of a trima version of himself ripping 3:21:50.720 --> 3:21:53.600 the Keystone pipeline out of the ground, with a banner 3:21:53.680 --> 3:21:57.280 reading buried by Biden in the background. Not clear if 3:21:57.280 --> 3:22:02.880 he understands how pipelines work. What, Yeah, you guess is 3:22:02.920 --> 3:22:05.400 as good as mine on that one. Like it's uh, 3:22:06.080 --> 3:22:08.760 it's it's I mean, yeah, let me just draw up 3:22:08.760 --> 3:22:11.000 the link. I guess sometimes I'll just scroll this true 3:22:11.040 --> 3:22:14.480 social page. It's it's it's it's wild up in there. 3:22:14.560 --> 3:22:16.400 But that is not a task for the faint of heart. 3:22:16.760 --> 3:22:18.360 No, Like, this is one of the things I do 3:22:18.480 --> 3:22:20.760 for work. You know that traumatizes me. I've put it 3:22:20.800 --> 3:22:22.040 in the chat, the zoom chat. 3:22:22.320 --> 3:22:25.440 We don't want our oil in the ground in those pipes. 3:22:25.680 --> 3:22:28.119 We want it straight from the straight of horror moves 3:22:28.160 --> 3:22:31.360 in barrels. Well, yeah, right, like what is he thinking? 3:22:31.560 --> 3:22:32.119 What does you. 3:22:32.080 --> 3:22:34.800 Think The Keystone pipeline, I should have not, also has 3:22:34.840 --> 3:22:38.240 a plaque affixed to it that says Keystone pipeline completely 3:22:38.280 --> 3:22:43.959 free energy jobs America first, No, and they're they're buried 3:22:43.959 --> 3:22:46.920 by Bibi is on a gravestone. The pipeline also has 3:22:46.959 --> 3:22:51.360 some handles. Trump's kind of in sort of a stable 3:22:51.680 --> 3:22:54.720 wide stance. They're pulling it out the ground like it's 3:22:54.720 --> 3:22:56.480 got roots on it. I don't know what the fuck 3:22:56.600 --> 3:22:58.280 is going on here. But there are also some soldiers 3:22:58.320 --> 3:23:01.039 in the background, like Undernea with an American flag. 3:23:01.680 --> 3:23:04.480 So yeah, this is the guy who just decided we 3:23:04.480 --> 3:23:05.920 were at warworth a run and that was killed a 3:23:05.920 --> 3:23:07.000 shit ton of people over it. 3:23:07.360 --> 3:23:10.960 Yeah, I guess now their response to the war where 3:23:10.959 --> 3:23:13.560 they run and gas prices being up is more pipelines 3:23:13.560 --> 3:23:16.800 at home, which is sick. Like I should add, I 3:23:16.800 --> 3:23:19.240 guess there is a continuing ecological disaster in the straight 3:23:19.280 --> 3:23:22.160 upforme moves because people keep shooting boats which are full 3:23:22.200 --> 3:23:24.400 of fuel. Yeah, and Iran it's having to clean up 3:23:24.440 --> 3:23:25.360 these oil spills. 3:23:25.879 --> 3:23:28.560 Well, there's also a further ecological disaster and that you 3:23:28.600 --> 3:23:30.920 have an enormous fleet of vessels that are just sitting 3:23:30.920 --> 3:23:34.600 around waiting and accumulating a huge number of different kind 3:23:34.640 --> 3:23:38.320 of like mollusks that you don't want to spread around 3:23:38.360 --> 3:23:41.279 the world that are definitely and it's also getting stuff 3:23:41.320 --> 3:23:44.519 is getting sucked into like their water tanks and they're 3:23:44.560 --> 3:23:46.160 what do you call it, their ballast tanks and shit 3:23:46.280 --> 3:23:48.720 that's going to get shut squirted out somewhere else. Like 3:23:48.720 --> 3:23:50.400 there's a lot of potential problems. 3:23:50.640 --> 3:23:53.680 Yeah, there are some procedures for like dumping ballast and stuff, 3:23:53.720 --> 3:23:56.600 but yeah, this is all the problem is right, everything 3:23:56.720 --> 3:24:02.119 is delayed. Every shipping company is losing money hand over fist. Yeah, 3:24:02.120 --> 3:24:03.800 and they're gonna want to get movie pretty fast when 3:24:04.959 --> 3:24:08.280 if the straightforward moves ever opens again. And yeah, we 3:24:08.320 --> 3:24:10.920 will see more environmental damages, like every war is an 3:24:10.920 --> 3:24:15.000 ecological disaster, but this one that isn't getting as much 3:24:15.040 --> 3:24:16.960 reporting on. But it's great that we're bringing that home 3:24:17.120 --> 3:24:19.240 with the Keystone pipelines, so we'll get a little piece 3:24:19.280 --> 3:24:19.720 of that too. 3:24:20.720 --> 3:24:22.760 So I wanted to give an update on a story 3:24:22.760 --> 3:24:25.320 because I talked about two weeks ago something like that 3:24:25.440 --> 3:24:30.360 about the general dynamics artillery shell factory in Mesquite, Texas 3:24:30.400 --> 3:24:32.440 that was meant to by now be producing somewhere between 3:24:32.560 --> 3:24:36.080 twenty and ideally thirty thousand shells a month, of specifically 3:24:36.080 --> 3:24:39.280 the kind that we're being used most rapidly in Ukraine 3:24:39.320 --> 3:24:42.640 before Ukraine pivoted to using drones for a lot of stuff. 3:24:42.640 --> 3:24:44.480 I mean, they're still burning through one fifty five's but 3:24:44.640 --> 3:24:47.760 like that was, I mean, they incurred a shell debt 3:24:47.800 --> 3:24:50.080 of something like three point six million shells in the 3:24:50.160 --> 3:24:52.000 United States as a result of that, and so it's 3:24:52.000 --> 3:24:55.000 a massive issue to get these shells being produced because 3:24:55.000 --> 3:24:57.480 in any kind of modern war we're going to be 3:24:57.520 --> 3:24:59.680 burning through a shitload of them. We have one hundred 3:24:59.720 --> 3:25:02.800 something years worth of heavy artillery in warfare to know 3:25:02.840 --> 3:25:04.920 that you never have enough shells. So this is a 3:25:04.920 --> 3:25:06.480 problem the US has been trying to get its handle 3:25:06.520 --> 3:25:09.480 on for a while, and as I noted, this factory 3:25:09.480 --> 3:25:11.560 that was supposed to be producing like a third of 3:25:11.600 --> 3:25:13.440 the total of all the shells in the United States 3:25:13.480 --> 3:25:15.920 has not produced any so far. And a few days 3:25:16.000 --> 3:25:19.240 after I discussed that on ed Jesse Coburn at Pro 3:25:19.280 --> 3:25:23.760 Publica published a beautiful investigation into that general Dynamics factory 3:25:23.800 --> 3:25:28.440 and Mesquite that opens with just a great lead. A 3:25:28.520 --> 3:25:32.920 robot was on fire again, and it's talking about the 3:25:32.959 --> 3:25:36.520 fact that all of this factory is filled with Jesus. 3:25:36.640 --> 3:25:39.040 Because it was supposed to meant to be heavily automated, 3:25:39.040 --> 3:25:40.480 which is why it was supposed to be able to 3:25:40.520 --> 3:25:42.480 keep up with such a high level of production. It 3:25:42.520 --> 3:25:44.920 was automated using these robots that had like giant metal 3:25:45.000 --> 3:25:47.480 arms clamps for hands, and because of the way they 3:25:47.480 --> 3:25:50.560 were designed, wound up soaked in oil constantly, and that 3:25:50.720 --> 3:25:53.680 oil would combust because they were moving steel blocks that 3:25:53.720 --> 3:25:56.400 had been heated to about eighteen hundred degrees fahrenheit, but 3:25:56.640 --> 3:25:58.400 in too and out of a machine that also would 3:25:58.400 --> 3:26:02.360 periodically beuch flame at them, and the robots were not 3:26:02.560 --> 3:26:05.440 proofed against this much flame. Per the Carpoblica article, one 3:26:05.480 --> 3:26:08.480 blaze that summer melted robots cables, putting an ADVO commission 3:26:08.600 --> 3:26:12.039 for a week now. The series of fires in the 3:26:12.080 --> 3:26:15.040 factory came just a few weeks before Trump administration. Defense 3:26:15.080 --> 3:26:18.160 officials and executives for General Dynamics, the company that made 3:26:18.160 --> 3:26:21.440 the factory, toured and through a gala opening event there 3:26:21.480 --> 3:26:23.280 to celebrate that it was supposed to be up and 3:26:23.320 --> 3:26:27.039 running by now. Exploding robots were not the only method 3:26:27.080 --> 3:26:30.000 of uncontrollable failure that workers had documented at the factory 3:26:30.080 --> 3:26:32.480 by that point. For one thing, the robotic arms had 3:26:32.480 --> 3:26:36.120 a tendency to flail uncontrollably and destroy equipment. They also 3:26:36.120 --> 3:26:39.560 would periodically drop heavy loads at random. The most sensitive 3:26:39.600 --> 3:26:42.400 and expensive equipment in the entire factory was a machine 3:26:42.400 --> 3:26:44.360 that was meant to stretch metal in order to make 3:26:44.440 --> 3:26:48.720 artillery shells. It cracked them nearly constantly. The factory was 3:26:48.760 --> 3:26:51.000 filled with smoke at all times and was usually over 3:26:51.040 --> 3:26:53.680 one hundred degrees inside. Every description of the state of 3:26:53.680 --> 3:26:55.720 the art Arms factory sounds worse than the ones that 3:26:55.720 --> 3:26:58.560 were operating in World War One. This is probably my 3:26:58.640 --> 3:27:01.320 favorite part of that article. Then there were the giant 3:27:01.320 --> 3:27:04.680 press machines, which required regular pounding with a sledgehammer to function. 3:27:04.800 --> 3:27:08.120 Property still sat the shaping of nearly every shell. We 3:27:08.200 --> 3:27:11.560 didn't really have any standardized practice, said Quantel White, a 3:27:11.600 --> 3:27:14.119 former employee. It was just a bunch of guys taking 3:27:14.120 --> 3:27:16.640 turns going at the machine with a sledgehammer every night. 3:27:17.160 --> 3:27:21.720 This is fourhammer, forty k shit wyammer. 3:27:21.360 --> 3:27:23.360 Forty k works a lot better than this. There would 3:27:23.360 --> 3:27:25.720 be a priest, he would be reading from a bible. 3:27:25.800 --> 3:27:28.560 There'd be ungeons and oil. Well, there's lots of oil. 3:27:28.760 --> 3:27:30.320 I love this now. 3:27:30.400 --> 3:27:32.920 By last summer, which is when reports first started coming 3:27:32.959 --> 3:27:36.120 out about the difficulties the factory was having. By that point, 3:27:36.120 --> 3:27:39.000 General Dynamics had missed eight deadlines to get this thing 3:27:39.120 --> 3:27:42.240 up and running. Their factory still has yet to produce 3:27:42.280 --> 3:27:45.440 a single usable shell, despite five hundred and thirty three 3:27:45.480 --> 3:27:49.200 million dollars in Pentagon funds going towards refurbishing old machines 3:27:49.240 --> 3:27:52.480 and ordering new ones from Turkey. Even so, the Pentagon 3:27:52.520 --> 3:27:56.200 continues to sign contracts with General Dynamics, and two months 3:27:56.240 --> 3:27:58.640 ago the company announced a some new solution to all 3:27:58.720 --> 3:28:01.440 of their ill fortune factory. These many issues. You guys, 3:28:01.480 --> 3:28:04.039 guess what The magic bullet that finally is going to 3:28:04.040 --> 3:28:06.240 fix everything that this factory that doesn't work is supposed 3:28:06.240 --> 3:28:06.920 to be AI. 3:28:07.320 --> 3:28:10.640 Yeah, it's AI. It's it's fucking AI. Of course, it's yeah. 3:28:10.720 --> 3:28:13.480 Quote a news release from General Dynamics. In the new company, 3:28:13.560 --> 3:28:16.720 the terrence was filled with techno business jargon. AI enabled 3:28:16.760 --> 3:28:19.800 capabilities and intelligence and connectivity would be added at Mesquite 3:28:19.840 --> 3:28:23.680 and other General Dynamics factories. The companies wrote, AI transforms 3:28:23.680 --> 3:28:27.080 production facilities into strategic assets to terrens. As CEO said 3:28:27.120 --> 3:28:30.480 on the release, we're building autonomous manufacturing systems that learned 3:28:30.480 --> 3:28:32.640 to adapt and scale in real time. By the way, 3:28:32.680 --> 3:28:35.240 what that CEO said, I'll guarantee was written by chat GPT. 3:28:35.440 --> 3:28:39.360 The whole AI transformed that that's yeah, very clearly. Yeah, 3:28:39.400 --> 3:28:42.000 these pronouncements have baffled former Mesquite workers. What are they 3:28:42.040 --> 3:28:44.280 talking about. There's nothing to learn or adapt or scale 3:28:44.320 --> 3:28:51.240 one set. It's all broken. It's really fun because no 3:28:51.240 --> 3:28:53.520 one who actually works at the factory, and no US 3:28:53.600 --> 3:28:56.280 military officials who are allowed to speak their minds openly, 3:28:56.480 --> 3:28:59.680 have had anything positive to say about General Dynamics and 3:28:59.680 --> 3:29:02.520 how they proceeded with this project. The article quotes a 3:29:02.520 --> 3:29:05.560 former official in an Army office supervising the factory as 3:29:05.600 --> 3:29:08.480 saying it's an absolute disaster. The Army should have gone 3:29:08.520 --> 3:29:12.440 after recovering money from General Dynamics. Yeah, no, I mean 3:29:12.480 --> 3:29:12.959 they should have. 3:29:13.879 --> 3:29:16.680 Yeah, But that gets the central contradiction of the American 3:29:16.680 --> 3:29:18.760 war machine, which is that the point of it is 3:29:18.800 --> 3:29:21.480 to give money to defense contractors not actually supposed to 3:29:21.480 --> 3:29:22.680 have to use the stuff. 3:29:23.879 --> 3:29:24.600 I should say here. 3:29:24.640 --> 3:29:27.760 General Dynamics is one of the companies most responsible for 3:29:27.840 --> 3:29:30.480 inventing that state of affairs. This is we're going to 3:29:30.520 --> 3:29:33.120 talk about these folks because they keep coming up when 3:29:33.120 --> 3:29:36.320 you look into like defense relateds, golduggery and fuckery and 3:29:36.480 --> 3:29:39.280 like us history. I feel like now is probably is 3:29:39.280 --> 3:29:41.040 a good time to talk a little bit about their history. 3:29:41.040 --> 3:29:43.400 We're gonna I'm gonna give a brief overview of these 3:29:43.400 --> 3:29:46.119 guys because we're in an illegal war that's currently shuffling 3:29:46.120 --> 3:29:48.440 a fortune to defense contractors, and we should probably talk 3:29:48.480 --> 3:29:50.640 about one of the most corrupt members of that family. 3:29:51.040 --> 3:29:53.880 The General Dynamics Corporation was founded at the tail end 3:29:53.879 --> 3:29:56.920 of the nineteenth century by Isaac Leopold Rice, a businessman 3:29:56.959 --> 3:29:59.640 and a music coologist who was born in Bavaria and 3:29:59.720 --> 3:30:02.480 raised in Milwaukee. He made his fortune doing a mix 3:30:02.480 --> 3:30:05.560 of railroad law and publishing sheet music, and eventually got 3:30:05.600 --> 3:30:08.800 into the electric battery and vehicle business. This ended with 3:30:08.879 --> 3:30:12.080 him involved in submarines, because early Navy subs ran on 3:30:12.160 --> 3:30:15.520 electric power when submerged. In eighteen ninety nine, he purchased 3:30:15.520 --> 3:30:18.680 the halland Torpedo Boat Company and named it the Electric 3:30:18.760 --> 3:30:22.760 Boat Company. The Electric Boat Company remained a submarine manufacturer 3:30:22.800 --> 3:30:25.960 after his death in nineteen fourteen, providing subs for not 3:30:26.040 --> 3:30:29.000 just the US government but the Peruvian government, and gradually 3:30:29.000 --> 3:30:31.200 spinning up to produce other kinds of boats, including PT 3:30:31.360 --> 3:30:34.560 boats for the US and Canadian militaries. After World War II, 3:30:34.720 --> 3:30:38.280 it purchased Convair, which made anti aircraft missiles, jet fighters, 3:30:38.360 --> 3:30:40.840 and the Atlas rockets used in the first US crewed 3:30:40.959 --> 3:30:43.720 orbital flight. This new company, a mix of the Electric 3:30:43.760 --> 3:30:48.520 Boat Company and Convair, became General Dynamics. In more recent decades, 3:30:48.720 --> 3:30:52.400 General Dynamics became the manufacturers of the feared Tomahawk cruise missile, 3:30:52.520 --> 3:30:55.800 arguably the most iconic ballistic missile in the entire US arsenal. 3:30:56.040 --> 3:30:59.200 It also kept making subs, including the famous Los Angeles 3:30:59.200 --> 3:31:01.480 Class and D. As time went on, the company got 3:31:01.520 --> 3:31:04.640 really really good at corruptly fucking US taxpayers out of 3:31:04.680 --> 3:31:08.120 their money. Investigative reporting first started shining a light on 3:31:08.200 --> 3:31:10.760 constant cost overruns and blown budgets in a series of 3:31:10.800 --> 3:31:13.840 GD defense contracts for a nineteen eighty five Time article 3:31:13.840 --> 3:31:17.400 by Charles Alexander. A federal grand jury first started investigating 3:31:17.400 --> 3:31:19.920 the company's cost overruns on submarines in nineteen seventy nine, 3:31:19.920 --> 3:31:21.800 but dropped the probe in nineteen eighty one for lack 3:31:21.840 --> 3:31:24.400 of enough evidence of fraud. Now the Justice Apartment has 3:31:24.440 --> 3:31:26.440 reopened the case in light of new information from p 3:31:26.640 --> 3:31:29.600 Tecis Veliattis, who in nineteen seventy seven became head of 3:31:29.600 --> 3:31:32.920 Electric Boat, the company's subuilding division in Grotton, Connecticut. His 3:31:33.000 --> 3:31:35.520 word is hardly unimpeachable. In nineteen eighty three he fled 3:31:35.560 --> 3:31:37.760 to his native Grease to avoid being tried on charges 3:31:37.760 --> 3:31:40.000 of perjuring himself before a grand jury and taking one 3:31:40.040 --> 3:31:43.360 point three million in kickbacks from a subcontractor. Velliotis has 3:31:43.360 --> 3:31:45.840 produced tapes in company documents that he claims reveal a 3:31:45.879 --> 3:31:48.560 pattern of waste, corruption and cover up at General Dynamics. 3:31:48.760 --> 3:31:50.520 In a tape of one talk he had with Lewis 3:31:50.560 --> 3:31:53.960 the chairman, for example, the chairman suggests that Velliottis reassured 3:31:54.040 --> 3:31:57.000 James Ashton, a discontented Electric Boat executive, that he is 3:31:57.040 --> 3:31:58.680 still in the running for a promotion, in order to 3:31:58.720 --> 3:32:01.120 keep him from popping off about shoddy work at the yard. 3:32:01.640 --> 3:32:03.880 So we have all of these tapes from this equally 3:32:03.920 --> 3:32:06.560 shady dude, villiatdis because nobody who's in a high position 3:32:06.600 --> 3:32:09.680 in the defense contracting industry is not constantly committing crimes. 3:32:09.920 --> 3:32:12.680 And the tapes that he provided showed several things that 3:32:12.720 --> 3:32:15.600 are very familiar to the Mesquite factory case. For one thing, 3:32:15.800 --> 3:32:18.680 Villiadis provided a nineteen seventy seven tape with the company's 3:32:18.720 --> 3:32:22.200 executive vice president, Gordon MacDonald, telling him that the company 3:32:22.200 --> 3:32:25.400 had issued an impossible delivery timetable for the first Trident 3:32:25.440 --> 3:32:28.720 submarine because the CEO of General Dynamics wanted to quote 3:32:28.840 --> 3:32:32.080 keep our stock price from sliding. In other words, every 3:32:32.120 --> 3:32:34.320 time that the stock price slides, you can announce, oh, 3:32:34.320 --> 3:32:35.959 we're about to release the Trident, and you can get 3:32:35.959 --> 3:32:36.400 a quick. 3:32:36.280 --> 3:32:37.400 Boost in the stock price. 3:32:37.600 --> 3:32:37.800 Yeah. 3:32:37.879 --> 3:32:38.320 Yeah. 3:32:38.400 --> 3:32:40.080 And as a result of this kind of fuckery, the 3:32:40.080 --> 3:32:42.360 sub was not produced until two years after this date. 3:32:42.400 --> 3:32:45.520 Now that's pretty bad. But the incident that actually sparked 3:32:45.520 --> 3:32:48.480 the first known criminal investigation of a defense contractor came 3:32:48.480 --> 3:32:51.480 in nineteen eighty three when General Dynamics tried to charge 3:32:51.520 --> 3:32:54.360 the Air Force ninety six hundred dollars for a four 3:32:54.400 --> 3:32:58.160 inch long wrench. And this revealed a bunch of if 3:32:58.160 --> 3:33:01.000 you've ever heard stories of like six thousand dollars wrenches 3:33:01.000 --> 3:33:05.240 and YadA YadA, four thousand dollars plungers. It's General Dynamics 3:33:05.240 --> 3:33:07.760 that people are talking about. That was a real series 3:33:07.800 --> 3:33:11.440 of like news articles and eventually congressional investigations into the 3:33:11.440 --> 3:33:14.720 fact that they were charging absurd amounts of money for bullshit. Now, 3:33:14.760 --> 3:33:16.800 part of the reason for this was that, like Navy 3:33:16.840 --> 3:33:19.400 and Air Force, procurement was completely fucked in this point, 3:33:19.440 --> 3:33:21.720 and they just did not keep a backlog of like 3:33:22.000 --> 3:33:24.320 the material they needed to repair their shit on hand. 3:33:24.560 --> 3:33:27.320 But a lot of it was just massive rampant corruption 3:33:27.400 --> 3:33:30.640 with companies like General Dynamics in particular. Now, charges like 3:33:30.680 --> 3:33:34.280 this inspired further investigations into how GD functioned, and this 3:33:34.320 --> 3:33:36.879 eventually led to a congressional inquiry. It came out that 3:33:36.920 --> 3:33:39.840 in nineteen eighty two, General Dynamics had asked the Pentagon 3:33:39.879 --> 3:33:43.200 to pay almost nineteen million dollars in overhead costs for 3:33:43.240 --> 3:33:47.199 their company HQ. These were not what you'd call unavoidable expenses. 3:33:47.400 --> 3:33:50.520 Quote four hundred and ninety eight hundred and forty dollars 3:33:50.520 --> 3:33:53.119 for Lewis's that's the chairman's personal flights on corporate jets, 3:33:53.160 --> 3:33:55.600 often to and from his farm in Albany, five hundred 3:33:55.600 --> 3:33:58.280 and thirty eight seven hundred and eighty one dollars for 3:33:58.320 --> 3:34:01.720 contributions in memberships, including te club fees for top executives, 3:34:01.800 --> 3:34:03.879 and one hundred and fifty five dollars for the kinneling 3:34:03.920 --> 3:34:06.280 of a dog named Firston while its owner, a General 3:34:06.360 --> 3:34:09.960 Dynamics executive, attended a company conference at a South Carolina resort. 3:34:10.160 --> 3:34:13.200 At last week's hearing, Congressman dingle Quiz Lewis about a 3:34:13.240 --> 3:34:15.480 five hundred and seventy one dollars charge for a king 3:34:15.560 --> 3:34:18.400 size serted a perfect sleeper mattress and a box spring set, 3:34:18.440 --> 3:34:21.200 which was delivered to the Clayton Inn in suburban Saint Louis. 3:34:21.360 --> 3:34:23.920 It was for mister Velliatis, since Lewis, who explained that 3:34:23.959 --> 3:34:25.920 the executive said he needed the bed for times he 3:34:25.959 --> 3:34:29.120 came to Saint Louis for meetings, added Gordon McDonald, a 3:34:29.160 --> 3:34:32.440 General Dynamics executive Vice president. Mister Velliattis, being a very 3:34:32.520 --> 3:34:34.920 large man, complained so much to the secretary of the 3:34:34.959 --> 3:34:36.959 company that he got tired of hearing it and bought 3:34:36.959 --> 3:34:39.240 the bed. Valiatis denied that the bed was for him. 3:34:39.840 --> 3:34:44.000 So just very funny stories consistently when you look into 3:34:44.080 --> 3:34:49.600 like eighties defense contractor procurement issues, specifically around General Dynamics. Now, 3:34:49.640 --> 3:34:51.600 I know what you're wondering, how did they get away 3:34:51.600 --> 3:34:54.879 with such corruption? Well, that nineteen million dollars the US 3:34:54.959 --> 3:34:58.000 government spent on complete bullshit fees was matched with one 3:34:58.080 --> 3:35:01.439 point two four million dollars in the General Dynamics accountmant 3:35:01.520 --> 3:35:05.600 purely to entertain Pentagon officials in nineteen seventy seven. They 3:35:05.680 --> 3:35:08.760 have a twenty five dollars diamond earring set to the 3:35:08.760 --> 3:35:13.240 wife of Admiral Hyman rickover head of the nuclear propulsion program. Now, 3:35:13.440 --> 3:35:15.640 to be fair to Hymen, the real reason they were 3:35:15.680 --> 3:35:17.560 trying to butter him up is that he had repeatedly 3:35:17.600 --> 3:35:20.280 complained about the company. But this is the kind of 3:35:20.320 --> 3:35:22.440 shit that they have been doing forever. Like the fact 3:35:22.480 --> 3:35:24.560 that they have now spent half a billion dollars of 3:35:24.600 --> 3:35:27.240 taxpayer money on a factory that does not work is 3:35:27.360 --> 3:35:30.280 nothing new to General Dynamics. And I'm sure they've now 3:35:30.280 --> 3:35:32.720 promised to put another two hundred million dollars into the 3:35:32.760 --> 3:35:35.200 factory and that it'll be producing twenty thousand shells a 3:35:35.200 --> 3:35:38.240 month at least within a year. I'm sure at some 3:35:38.320 --> 3:35:40.520 point they'll get at work if they keep shoveling a 3:35:40.520 --> 3:35:43.039 bunch of money into it. But make no mistake, it 3:35:43.080 --> 3:35:45.760 will not be General Dynamics money. It will be money 3:35:45.800 --> 3:35:47.920 one way or the other that US taxpayers have given 3:35:47.959 --> 3:35:51.600 them that winds up eventually, maybe making this factory produce 3:35:51.640 --> 3:35:56.760 a single shell. Anyway, General Dynamics, Let's. 3:35:56.520 --> 3:35:58.960 Go on one more had break and then talk about 3:35:59.080 --> 3:35:59.960 bonds and floor. 3:36:00.320 --> 3:36:16.959 I guess, yeah, wild, speaking of unbelievably corrupt bullshit that 3:36:17.080 --> 3:36:20.800 is directly tied to the American war efforts in Iran. 3:36:22.480 --> 3:36:27.000 Okay, so bonds are not normally an extremely exciting topic. 3:36:27.080 --> 3:36:29.440 So let's start off with the glaring part, which is 3:36:29.440 --> 3:36:32.960 that early this week, the yields on US Treasury bonds, 3:36:32.959 --> 3:36:36.879 specifically thirty year tea notes, hit highs not seen since 3:36:36.959 --> 3:36:41.080 two thousand and seven, several weeks before the collapse of 3:36:41.200 --> 3:36:45.680 the American stock markets. Is also noted by several analysts 3:36:45.680 --> 3:36:48.320 that the other times that we've seen peaks like this 3:36:48.440 --> 3:36:53.800 were like nineteen thirty nine, right before that, and I 3:36:53.840 --> 3:36:57.200 think there was another one of these I forgot. I 3:36:57.280 --> 3:36:59.400 forgot the other economic collapse where there was a there 3:36:59.400 --> 3:37:01.240 was a giant one of these right before it. 3:37:01.360 --> 3:37:06.840 Like the nineteen twenty ninety thirty one. Is that like black. 3:37:06.640 --> 3:37:08.520 Fright, Yeah, there's one more. 3:37:08.760 --> 3:37:11.680 I think it mout have been like the dot com 3:37:11.720 --> 3:37:14.520 bubble or something. I forget what juddle, But the experts 3:37:14.520 --> 3:37:16.680 suggests that bond markets only do this when they are 3:37:16.840 --> 3:37:22.400 in extreme distress. So what does this actually mean. Bonds 3:37:22.520 --> 3:37:24.760 are a thing that, in this case, you can get 3:37:24.760 --> 3:37:27.039 from the governments and you pay the government money, and 3:37:27.080 --> 3:37:29.560 the government promises you to pay back more money later, 3:37:29.800 --> 3:37:32.119 and the yield is like how much more money they're 3:37:32.160 --> 3:37:36.279 they're giving you back? Right, High yields on bonds means, 3:37:36.360 --> 3:37:39.360 you know, an increase of the cost of borrowing, and 3:37:40.080 --> 3:37:43.120 high yields on US government bonds is a sign of 3:37:43.160 --> 3:37:47.039 growing distrust in the long run economic feature of the US. Usually, 3:37:47.080 --> 3:37:49.720 these bonds pay like absolute shit. But the reason they 3:37:49.720 --> 3:37:52.320 pay like shit is that it's the US government. You're 3:37:52.320 --> 3:37:54.200 guaranteed to get your money back, so they're supposed to 3:37:54.240 --> 3:37:57.160 be an extremely safe asset, right, And when these rates 3:37:57.160 --> 3:37:59.520 are up, it's because everyone is you know, looking at 3:37:59.560 --> 3:38:02.120 something happening in the market, and something happening structurally in 3:38:02.160 --> 3:38:05.600 the US economy and panicking. Now, one of those things 3:38:05.640 --> 3:38:08.520 is they're looking at the US debt and panicking, and 3:38:09.200 --> 3:38:12.800 you know, whether or not that's like a great way 3:38:12.840 --> 3:38:15.600 to evaluate how panicky they have to be is an 3:38:15.600 --> 3:38:18.040 open question. This has been one of the lines that's 3:38:18.080 --> 3:38:19.520 been coming out is that they're looking at you know, 3:38:19.560 --> 3:38:23.320 the US date and increasing faster than expected. The main thing, however, 3:38:23.760 --> 3:38:27.320 that has been setting off this particular wave of like 3:38:27.480 --> 3:38:31.480 mass selling of bonds is the collapse of that sixty 3:38:31.560 --> 3:38:35.160 day piece deal that Robert was talking about earlier, which 3:38:35.640 --> 3:38:38.040 you know, I don't think anyone who was actually following 3:38:38.800 --> 3:38:41.640 the conflict really thought that was going to go anywhere. 3:38:41.720 --> 3:38:44.600 But the thing that was important about it, strategically from 3:38:44.600 --> 3:38:46.600 the American side was that this was this was the 3:38:46.640 --> 3:38:50.360 thing that investors in financial antas were hanging their hat on. 3:38:50.840 --> 3:38:53.040 And you know that these these people had convinced themselves 3:38:53.040 --> 3:38:54.920 that this process was actually going to result in the 3:38:55.000 --> 3:38:56.680 end of the war, and that quickly ending the war 3:38:56.760 --> 3:38:59.360 was going to you know, restore economic growth et cetera, 3:38:59.360 --> 3:39:03.000 et cetera, and stay off inflation. And this was sort 3:39:03.040 --> 3:39:05.280 of the week as as as I mentioned earlier the 3:39:05.320 --> 3:39:07.959 Brent crude index hit ninety dollars a barrel and the 3:39:08.000 --> 3:39:12.800 peace talks formally completely collapsed. That there was a growing 3:39:12.840 --> 3:39:15.360 realization that this war is not going to end. The 3:39:15.400 --> 3:39:17.640 economic conditions caused by the war not ending out going 3:39:17.680 --> 3:39:21.240 to continue, which means inflation is going to increase and 3:39:21.480 --> 3:39:24.039 it's going to have sort of far reaching and long 3:39:24.120 --> 3:39:27.640 lasting economic impacts. Now, this is a global squeeze that's 3:39:27.680 --> 3:39:30.840 been hitting most developed countries. Japan has also been very 3:39:30.840 --> 3:39:36.080 badly hit by these sort of shocks in bond yields. Now, 3:39:36.320 --> 3:39:40.480 what's interesting reading analysis of it is that you're actually 3:39:40.520 --> 3:39:44.760 starting to see a lot of firms. JP Morgan is 3:39:44.800 --> 3:39:47.640 a good example of this with JP Morgan. For like, 3:39:47.680 --> 3:39:50.400 basically since the war has started, JP Morgan's analysis has 3:39:50.400 --> 3:39:51.959 been the war is going to end, and when the 3:39:51.959 --> 3:39:53.720 war ends, things will go back to normal. So we're 3:39:53.760 --> 3:39:55.760 just going to keep projecting things are going to be fine. 3:39:56.080 --> 3:39:58.879 They are finally pointing out the things that we've been saying, 3:39:58.920 --> 3:40:00.520 which is that yeah, the no, the war is not 3:40:00.600 --> 3:40:06.160 ending and it's wreaking havoc on global supply chains. Now, 3:40:06.400 --> 3:40:10.600 the other thing that's been causing this run up. There's 3:40:10.600 --> 3:40:13.360 two sides of this back to back that seem very conflicting, 3:40:13.440 --> 3:40:17.240 which is, on the one hand, there is growing fear 3:40:17.480 --> 3:40:19.680 over the fact that the AI bubble looks like it's 3:40:19.680 --> 3:40:22.040 going to collapse, right and we've seen this was sort 3:40:22.040 --> 3:40:24.199 of like the kast b shock I was talking about earlier, 3:40:24.240 --> 3:40:26.280 where you know, the stock market like ten five to 3:40:26.360 --> 3:40:29.080 ten percent of the stock markets create stock markets value 3:40:29.120 --> 3:40:33.360 keeps disappearing overnight and then reappearing the next day. But 3:40:33.560 --> 3:40:36.680 then and this is sort of fascinating. One of the 3:40:36.720 --> 3:40:38.959 other things that's been happening is that there has been 3:40:39.000 --> 3:40:43.960 an unbelievable proliferation of bonds issued by AI companies because 3:40:43.959 --> 3:40:45.879 these AI companies are having to go to the finance 3:40:45.920 --> 3:40:48.720 markets to fund all of their weird data center bullshit. 3:40:49.360 --> 3:40:53.039 And this has gotten a bunch of investors to pull 3:40:53.120 --> 3:40:56.840 their money out of very safe US bonds and put 3:40:56.879 --> 3:41:02.560 them into hideously unsafe AI I bonds, a thing which 3:41:04.360 --> 3:41:08.199 I don't even this obviously is going to go catastrophically wrong. 3:41:08.440 --> 3:41:12.920 I don't have a sophisticated analysis for why, like taking 3:41:12.959 --> 3:41:15.720 the money out of the US government and putting it 3:41:15.800 --> 3:41:18.800 into this AI company is going to create a transcendent 3:41:18.840 --> 3:41:22.480 God is a terrible idea. And what we've kind of 3:41:22.520 --> 3:41:25.760 seen in the past couple of days as these bond 3:41:25.800 --> 3:41:29.200 yields have risen as from a combination of these factors, 3:41:29.320 --> 3:41:31.240 is it looks like the beginning of the moment where 3:41:31.280 --> 3:41:34.400 wildly coyote like looks down and realizes that he's off 3:41:34.400 --> 3:41:39.600 the cliff. Now, on Wednesday, the Treasury began a massive 3:41:39.600 --> 3:41:43.039 buyback of treasury bonds going to quote from CNBC here. 3:41:43.920 --> 3:41:48.400 Under the accelerated buy back, Treasury, led by Secretary Scott Bessant, 3:41:48.480 --> 3:41:51.200 will target the ten to twenty year and twenty to 3:41:51.240 --> 3:41:54.000 thirty year portion of the market, which has seen a 3:41:54.040 --> 3:41:57.440 buyer strike since late June. The government will at least 3:41:57.640 --> 3:42:00.840 double the maximum size of its buyback operation from two 3:42:00.920 --> 3:42:04.880 billion to quote at least four billion dollars, according to 3:42:04.959 --> 3:42:08.760 an announcement from the Department. Now, in terms of the 3:42:08.800 --> 3:42:11.600 actual size of this buyback, which is like not a 3:42:11.640 --> 3:42:14.160 great sign when the government is buying back its own 3:42:14.200 --> 3:42:19.280 debt in an attempt to stabilize the market. But that's 3:42:19.480 --> 3:42:21.240 not you know, in terms of the size of like 3:42:21.240 --> 3:42:23.800 the US bomb market, that's really a drop in the bucket. 3:42:24.120 --> 3:42:27.039 But it does seem to have temporarily sort of stabilized 3:42:27.520 --> 3:42:29.600 the markets on the belief that if things continue to 3:42:29.600 --> 3:42:35.640 go run, the government will step in. However, the actual 3:42:35.680 --> 3:42:41.280 underlying economic metrics remain bad for everything in the economy 3:42:41.320 --> 3:42:44.640 that isn't ai and this is one of the things 3:42:44.640 --> 3:42:48.920 that traditionally heralds a fall on economic collapse. Now, it's 3:42:48.920 --> 3:42:51.600 also worth noting that, you know, cosp for example, keeps 3:42:51.640 --> 3:42:54.440 hitting its circuit breaker. That's something that also traditionally has 3:42:54.480 --> 3:42:58.240 been like the prelude to collapse, and it hasn't yet. 3:42:58.400 --> 3:43:00.800 So you know, we're we're in it. We're in a 3:43:00.840 --> 3:43:04.959 deeply weird and semi unprecedented time in the markets and 3:43:05.320 --> 3:43:08.560 in sort of the behavior of these investors and financial actors. 3:43:09.280 --> 3:43:10.800 But it's not good. 3:43:11.280 --> 3:43:11.960 It's my, it's my. 3:43:12.120 --> 3:43:15.560 It's a conclusion on the state of the US bond 3:43:15.600 --> 3:43:17.360 market and the global economy at large. 3:43:18.200 --> 3:43:22.240 Let's close with elections, and I want to start with 3:43:22.320 --> 3:43:27.080 a quick correction for one or two of my last 3:43:27.640 --> 3:43:32.800 election segments. I keep calling Governor Tim Walls Mike Walls, 3:43:32.840 --> 3:43:36.600 and I don't know why this keeps happening. I picture 3:43:36.680 --> 3:43:39.400 his face in my mind, and I just like autocreks 3:43:39.480 --> 3:43:42.160 to Mike. I've caught this a few times and fixed 3:43:42.160 --> 3:43:45.480 it before the episode goes out, but this pastime I 3:43:45.720 --> 3:43:46.240 did not. 3:43:47.360 --> 3:43:47.560 Now. 3:43:47.879 --> 3:43:51.720 Slightly more importantly, I also accidentally referred to Mike Rogers 3:43:51.720 --> 3:43:54.720 in Michigan as the incumbent, and that is not true. 3:43:54.840 --> 3:44:00.280 This Senate race is open and Rogers's former congressmen. These are, 3:44:00.280 --> 3:44:02.800 you know, smaller details and stories that are focused more 3:44:02.840 --> 3:44:05.400 on how DSA left wing candidates are running their campaigns. 3:44:05.440 --> 3:44:07.840 But these types of details are still important to get right, 3:44:08.040 --> 3:44:12.200 and I regret the error. Let's turn to Florida, where 3:44:12.240 --> 3:44:15.240 I'm sad to say the resistance has been defeated. 3:44:15.520 --> 3:44:17.680 Now, Garrison, are you talking about Florida the state or 3:44:17.720 --> 3:44:18.840 flow RDA of the musical? 3:44:18.879 --> 3:44:21.879 Since now you missed a good chance to pivot with 3:44:22.000 --> 3:44:23.520 talking of regret, and then. 3:44:23.920 --> 3:44:26.520 I thought about doing that, but I'm like, no, I 3:44:26.560 --> 3:44:30.360 would rather not, because I'm just saying I still think 3:44:30.360 --> 3:44:31.400 there's hope for Florida. 3:44:31.560 --> 3:44:32.560 I said, bold take. 3:44:32.600 --> 3:44:37.000 But American hero Alexander Vinman will not be that hope. 3:44:37.120 --> 3:44:39.640 You'll be assuring another correction for that bad boy. Let 3:44:39.680 --> 3:44:40.440 me tell you. 3:44:42.080 --> 3:44:44.000 I'm talking in the grands. Okay, I'm talking about in 3:44:44.000 --> 3:44:46.400 the cosmic sense, not in the short term. 3:44:46.520 --> 3:44:50.320 Yeah, okay, I agree with you. I have hope for 3:44:50.360 --> 3:44:51.040 the Feraridianes. 3:44:51.800 --> 3:44:55.400 The resistance has been defeated. American hero Alexander Vinman, the 3:44:55.440 --> 3:44:59.640 whistleblower who testified in Trump's first impeachment hearings, has lost 3:44:59.720 --> 3:45:03.160 the Democratic nomination for US Senate in an upset to 3:45:03.800 --> 3:45:08.920 Angie Nixon, a state representative from Jacksonville and a Democratic socialist. 3:45:09.840 --> 3:45:12.040 Nixon won by one hundred and fifty thousand votes. 3:45:12.160 --> 3:45:13.800 Oh wow, it's fifty. 3:45:13.640 --> 3:45:17.200 Six point one percent to Vinman's forty three point nine. 3:45:17.480 --> 3:45:20.040 And this, this, this is a big upset because Nixon 3:45:20.160 --> 3:45:24.560 was out fundraised sixteen to one. She had just under 3:45:24.600 --> 3:45:28.080 a million dollars while vinmin raked in over sixteen million. 3:45:29.080 --> 3:45:33.760 And I think, like a resist lib hero, losing a 3:45:33.800 --> 3:45:38.360 primary to a socialist in Florida is astounding. 3:45:38.680 --> 3:45:38.960 Yeah. 3:45:39.040 --> 3:45:43.000 Now, Nixon's a union organizer who's running on Medicare for all, 3:45:43.080 --> 3:45:47.600 the taxing billionaires, free childcare, universal jobs program, and opposition 3:45:47.640 --> 3:45:50.959 to Israel. She was endorsed by alanomar Or. She did 3:45:51.000 --> 3:45:54.760 a Tleeve needed Turner, Cory Bush, and Miss Rachel who's 3:45:54.800 --> 3:45:58.920 listed in the National Leaders section of Nixon's website. 3:45:58.840 --> 3:46:03.240 For her or you're only truly good national leader. No 3:46:03.280 --> 3:46:03.960 complaints with her? 3:46:04.000 --> 3:46:08.320 Yeah, Miss Rachel shown more spine than most of Congress 3:46:08.320 --> 3:46:09.320 in the last few years. 3:46:10.160 --> 3:46:15.120 Nixon was also endorsed by Working Families Party, Local Unions, JVP, 3:46:15.280 --> 3:46:19.080 Jewish hoysh for Peace and Track APAK. She joined DSA 3:46:19.320 --> 3:46:23.000 this past June, but did not pursue an endorsement, so 3:46:23.240 --> 3:46:27.000 is a relative newcomer to DSA as an organization. Do 3:46:27.000 --> 3:46:28.760 you want to play this clip from her back in 3:46:29.120 --> 3:46:33.560 November twenty twenty three, a month into Israel's attacks on Gaza, 3:46:33.800 --> 3:46:34.520 we are at. 3:46:34.440 --> 3:46:36.679 Ten thousand dead Palestinians. 3:46:36.800 --> 3:46:38.640 How man it will be enough? 3:46:40.480 --> 3:46:41.840 I also. 3:46:43.600 --> 3:46:47.280 One of the lawmaker's Republican Michelle Saltzman, just shouted out 3:46:47.440 --> 3:46:50.760 all of them in the hearing. I'll continue the clip, Jesus. 3:46:51.360 --> 3:46:54.920 One of my colleagues just said all of them. 3:46:55.160 --> 3:46:55.640 Wow. 3:46:57.280 --> 3:46:59.640 One of my colleagues fed all of them. 3:47:00.120 --> 3:47:03.720 One of my colleagues also stated that this is gonna 3:47:03.840 --> 3:47:07.880 dry up their fundraising if we vote on this resolution. 3:47:09.360 --> 3:47:12.480 I also want that like, that's what we've become in 3:47:12.520 --> 3:47:17.760 this state. That's what we've become in this state. Well, 3:47:17.800 --> 3:47:21.320 we don't care about innocent babies that don't even get 3:47:21.320 --> 3:47:24.560 the opportunity to blow out their first birthday candle. 3:47:24.840 --> 3:47:27.360 So this was a ceasefire resolution just a month in 3:47:27.520 --> 3:47:28.800 two the war. 3:47:29.840 --> 3:47:32.760 Do you have the sense of like turnout versus like 3:47:33.240 --> 3:47:36.280 electoral Like I'm wondering, is this a like people who 3:47:36.360 --> 3:47:39.800 turn out for primaries tend to be like a more 3:47:39.800 --> 3:47:42.800 politically engaged and people who turn out for generals or 3:47:42.920 --> 3:47:46.040 is this a like this because it's she clearly has, 3:47:46.080 --> 3:47:48.199 like just looking at that speech, she has a genuine 3:47:48.240 --> 3:47:50.640 commitment to what she's talking about. And I think people, yes, 3:47:50.720 --> 3:47:53.280 I appreciate that more than like you said, a resist 3:47:53.400 --> 3:47:53.840 lib hero. 3:47:54.400 --> 3:47:57.200 Definitely, And I mean certainly I think in generals can 3:47:57.200 --> 3:48:01.160 attract a bigger portion of the elector. Yeah, but there's 3:48:01.400 --> 3:48:03.760 there's a few things going on that created this this 3:48:04.280 --> 3:48:07.000 pretty pretty big difference in votes, like over one hundred 3:48:07.000 --> 3:48:10.000 and fifty thousand. Yeah, it's big, and like, in my mind, 3:48:10.000 --> 3:48:13.920 this relates to two of the elections last week in 3:48:14.160 --> 3:48:20.600 Minnesota and Wisconsin. The My Pillow primary, where Trump endorsed 3:48:20.600 --> 3:48:23.720 Mike Lindell lost the Republican governatorial primary to the state 3:48:23.760 --> 3:48:26.400 Speaker of the House, and like this this is kind 3:48:26.440 --> 3:48:29.640 of like the idea that a national political celebrity can 3:48:29.680 --> 3:48:32.600 just like waltz into your state and gobble up a nomination. 3:48:33.840 --> 3:48:37.080 Both Lindell and Alexander Vinman, you know, come from like 3:48:37.120 --> 3:48:40.080 the Trump world, albeit on opposite side. It's still part 3:48:40.080 --> 3:48:44.160 of like like you know, the Trumpian political circuit, and 3:48:44.240 --> 3:48:48.480 voters rejected both of them in favor of proven state lawmakers, 3:48:48.520 --> 3:48:52.880 you know, Janio, a more like regular state level Republican, 3:48:53.440 --> 3:48:56.760 and Angie Nixon, who's like a community organizer with like 3:48:56.840 --> 3:48:59.760 deep connections to a lot of a lot of different 3:48:59.760 --> 3:49:04.520 commun in the state and specifically the working class black community. Now, 3:49:04.640 --> 3:49:07.120 the other interesting thing that this race kind of continues 3:49:07.160 --> 3:49:10.960 the conversation on relates to Francesca Hong's loss last week. 3:49:11.520 --> 3:49:13.720 As as I discussed last week, Hong did not pay 3:49:13.720 --> 3:49:18.720 for any TV ads and Nixon only spent sixty thousand 3:49:18.840 --> 3:49:23.040 on ADS, was zero spent on broadcast or cable. Meanwhile, 3:49:23.160 --> 3:49:26.440 Vinman spent two point two million on ADS. That's thirty 3:49:26.520 --> 3:49:29.760 six times as much as Nixon. Yeah, and Nixon still 3:49:29.840 --> 3:49:33.520 wants dumping money off a cliff. That's because she actually 3:49:33.560 --> 3:49:36.480 ran a real campaign, like on the ground, and Vinman 3:49:36.680 --> 3:49:40.160 did not. He ran an incredibly lazy campaign. He really 3:49:40.200 --> 3:49:43.240 thought he could just like coast to the nomination based 3:49:43.240 --> 3:49:46.240 on his resist Live credentials. And you know, while that 3:49:46.320 --> 3:49:49.800 maybe helped in Palm Beach, it did not help him 3:49:49.800 --> 3:49:52.160 in the rest of the state, where where just he 3:49:52.200 --> 3:49:55.560 got absolutely trounced by Nixon. Like if you look at 3:49:55.560 --> 3:49:57.360 like the county map, it's like whoa. 3:49:59.000 --> 3:49:59.480 Yeah. 3:49:59.600 --> 3:50:05.280 So come November, Nixon will face the incumbent Senator Ashley Moody, 3:50:05.720 --> 3:50:08.480 the former state ag who Ron De Santis appointed to 3:50:08.560 --> 3:50:12.240 fill Marco Rubio's Senate seat after he was tapped for 3:50:12.280 --> 3:50:16.040 Secretary of State. And like Rubio is, Rubio has had 3:50:16.080 --> 3:50:19.400 a strong hold on that seat for decades. So the 3:50:19.760 --> 3:50:23.760 hope for Florida Democrats is that Ashley Moody won't command 3:50:23.880 --> 3:50:27.320 as much loyalty at the ballot box as Rubio does, 3:50:27.760 --> 3:50:28.720 or as Rubio did. 3:50:28.920 --> 3:50:31.360 Yeah, and maybe and maybe maybe, like a critical one 3:50:31.400 --> 3:50:35.440 percent of the Republican vote thinks that she's another Nixon. Yeah, yeah, 3:50:35.760 --> 3:50:40.960 hopefully you never know, but like this could very likely 3:50:41.000 --> 3:50:44.600 be a much harder uphill battle than even you know, 3:50:44.640 --> 3:50:48.280 like the Texas Senate race was hilarigo. In this recent election, 3:50:48.440 --> 3:50:51.080 there were around three hundred thousand fewer votes in the 3:50:51.080 --> 3:50:54.600 Democratic primary than the GOP primary. Like this is this 3:50:54.640 --> 3:50:56.880 is going to be a very difficult race to win. 3:50:57.240 --> 3:51:00.000 Yeah, I don't want to, you know, understate how impressed 3:51:00.040 --> 3:51:03.240 of this primary win like really is. And like I 3:51:03.240 --> 3:51:07.680 don't think anyone will false Nixon or her politics if 3:51:07.720 --> 3:51:08.680 she loses in the general. 3:51:08.840 --> 3:51:11.480 I mean someone will someone right, a shitty Like it's 3:51:11.520 --> 3:51:13.480 just see end of the leftop ed right, they always do. 3:51:13.480 --> 3:51:15.440 It doesn't massive they will, they will try to Like 3:51:15.880 --> 3:51:18.640 a lot of Centrists do not expect Vinman to win 3:51:19.000 --> 3:51:21.720 if he wins the primaries. So like it's it's a 3:51:21.760 --> 3:51:24.520 setate seat in Florida. It's like that's right, that's the thing. 3:51:24.560 --> 3:51:28.880 It's just I'm reflecting on the fact that like people 3:51:29.000 --> 3:51:32.680 have taken Hong's result and been like, oh, the progressive 3:51:32.760 --> 3:51:35.120 left is dead, and then they're still treating Callarico like 3:51:35.280 --> 3:51:38.040 he's uh, like the presumptive victor. 3:51:38.960 --> 3:51:41.280 Yeah, and then they'll say yeah, but like yeah, I mean, 3:51:41.600 --> 3:51:44.200 I think one thing we probably should take from Hong's 3:51:44.680 --> 3:51:48.000 election is that television ads cannot be disposed of so 3:51:48.160 --> 3:51:52.240 quickly yet at the general Yeah, I mean it, I 3:51:52.320 --> 3:51:54.840 mean period like it. I think that's one of the 3:51:54.920 --> 3:51:57.120 things that definitely hurt her campaign is that they made 3:51:57.160 --> 3:51:59.040 a big choice not to do tv ads. 3:51:59.200 --> 3:51:59.400 Yeah. 3:51:59.680 --> 3:52:02.160 I want to write everything down to that, but yeah, 3:52:02.600 --> 3:52:06.080 that was certainly a factor in Wisconsin. Nixon's like ground 3:52:06.160 --> 3:52:10.240 game in Florida was able to overcome the massive deficit 3:52:10.400 --> 3:52:14.400 in spending and just not really many funds for tv ads. 3:52:15.040 --> 3:52:17.480 And I think yeah, because this is a Florida Senate 3:52:17.520 --> 3:52:20.400 see that Vindman was not expected to win into general 3:52:20.560 --> 3:52:23.880 and he was the presumptive nominee. But because this race 3:52:23.880 --> 3:52:25.880 will be so hard to win, it'll be harder to 3:52:26.000 --> 3:52:29.240 like blame her or her politics specifically for losing. I 3:52:29.280 --> 3:52:31.200 think this race can also be a big opportunity to 3:52:31.240 --> 3:52:34.600 push the overtin window in Florida and I come November, 3:52:34.640 --> 3:52:36.080 it will be really interesting to see what the result 3:52:36.120 --> 3:52:38.360 of this election are because if this is a super 3:52:38.400 --> 3:52:41.160 close race, even if she's still loses, hopefully she will 3:52:41.200 --> 3:52:43.280 not lose, but if this race even gets to be 3:52:43.760 --> 3:52:46.800 where it's like more competitive than what it's been for 3:52:46.880 --> 3:52:50.880 the past like ten fifteen years, I think that could 3:52:50.920 --> 3:52:54.920 be an interesting look at how much Trump is hurting 3:52:55.000 --> 3:52:58.960 Republicans in elections, like exactly how upset parts of his 3:52:59.120 --> 3:53:01.920 base are at the current state of things, and to 3:53:02.000 --> 3:53:05.080 what degree that affects turnout. But also on the other hand, 3:53:05.120 --> 3:53:08.440 if Nixon and her politics are able to form a 3:53:08.640 --> 3:53:12.760 new coalition and attract voters that might not usually vote 3:53:12.760 --> 3:53:15.600 for Democrats, might not usually vote for socialists, or might 3:53:15.720 --> 3:53:19.320 not vote at all, because even just in this primary, 3:53:20.000 --> 3:53:24.120 her core voter base was very different than what's currently 3:53:24.320 --> 3:53:29.400 considered to be DSA's most reliable voters. Nixon did best 3:53:29.480 --> 3:53:33.200 in districts that were majority non college educated, and that's 3:53:33.480 --> 3:53:37.520 usually the reverse for a lot of DSA type candidates 3:53:37.560 --> 3:53:41.040 in other states. So she was getting out a slightly 3:53:41.120 --> 3:53:44.160 different voter base than what L said was getting out 3:53:44.200 --> 3:53:46.360 than what DSA candidates in New York have been getting out, 3:53:46.960 --> 3:53:50.240 especially in the primaries. So I think she is someone 3:53:50.280 --> 3:53:53.880 to watch and could alter what's seen as politically possible 3:53:53.960 --> 3:53:54.520 in Florida. 3:53:54.840 --> 3:53:57.560 Yeah, I want to say briefly also that there is 3:53:57.600 --> 3:54:01.040 a chance that you know, with how badly the Republicans 3:54:01.080 --> 3:54:04.320 are doing on generic ballots, I mean, like the good 3:54:04.440 --> 3:54:07.600 projections right now have them down seven points on just 3:54:07.680 --> 3:54:10.240 like a generic Democrat versus the Republican ballot, Like there 3:54:10.360 --> 3:54:12.080 is a small chance that we get a two thousand 3:54:12.080 --> 3:54:15.120 and eight style blowout and she wins, which it's not 3:54:15.240 --> 3:54:17.640 impossible in a way that it usually is. It would 3:54:17.640 --> 3:54:20.240 be historic, right, it would. Yeah, No, it's possible, just 3:54:20.440 --> 3:54:22.880 extremely unlikely. But like a I don't think it's likely, 3:54:23.360 --> 3:54:25.840 but it would be like a history. It's more likely 3:54:25.960 --> 3:54:27.840 than any of the times people have said that Democrats 3:54:27.880 --> 3:54:30.160 are going to take Texas. So I'll say about this 3:54:30.800 --> 3:54:34.880 like it's like actually technically possible. So while this is 3:54:34.960 --> 3:54:39.640 a big win for the left, statewide, DSA candidates did 3:54:39.720 --> 3:54:44.360 not fare as well in the recently redistricted US House 3:54:44.440 --> 3:54:48.480 races in Florida. Let's brevely talk about my boy, Oliver Larkin. 3:54:49.240 --> 3:54:51.960 Larkin was running for House District twenty five. That's Miami, 3:54:52.080 --> 3:54:56.400 DoD Palm Beach, and Broward County, not exactly the friendliest 3:54:56.480 --> 3:55:01.600 waters for an anti Israel socialist. I got sixteen, two 3:55:01.720 --> 3:55:05.040 hundred and eighty four votes, while the incumbent House Rep. 3:55:05.200 --> 3:55:09.000 Jared Moscowitz won with twenty eight thousand, two hundred and 3:55:09.080 --> 3:55:13.400 ninety four votes. Larkin is DSA endorsed, and he ran 3:55:13.440 --> 3:55:15.800 a solid campaign with an impressive ground game, over five 3:55:15.880 --> 3:55:19.960 hundred volunteers, forty thousand doors knocked seven hundred and fifty 3:55:20.000 --> 3:55:25.000 thousand calls. He campaigned with Angie Nixon. Also this past month, 3:55:25.440 --> 3:55:27.720 A Larkin has gone and this is a technical term, 3:55:28.000 --> 3:55:33.480 a beast mode in TV news interviews. Here's Larkin getting 3:55:33.560 --> 3:55:37.480 some pushback from a Fox News anchor on abolishing and 3:55:37.640 --> 3:55:38.720 prosecuting ice. 3:55:39.440 --> 3:55:41.320 What is the number that is fine with you? Is 3:55:41.360 --> 3:55:44.080 there is there a benchmark? Is it fine how many 3:55:44.240 --> 3:55:47.360 children can be raped? And it's fine if you're in 3:55:47.560 --> 3:55:49.680 relation to the immigration community. 3:55:51.080 --> 3:55:53.360 If we're going to talk about children being raped, then 3:55:53.400 --> 3:55:56.440 we need to hold this pedophile president Donald Trump accountable 3:55:56.480 --> 3:55:59.480 and all those that have been implicated by the Epstein sales. 3:55:59.520 --> 3:56:02.920 That Partment of Justice is still not leaking and they've 3:56:03.000 --> 3:56:06.760 sent a pack after Thomas Massey for having the temerity 3:56:06.840 --> 3:56:10.080 to accountables. 3:56:08.680 --> 3:56:09.920 That are in control of our government. 3:56:09.960 --> 3:56:12.080 Cue, oh, you appreciate your time very much. 3:56:15.560 --> 3:56:19.720 So beyond like attention grabbing moments like that, he's also 3:56:19.880 --> 3:56:23.240 very clearly articulated the details of his platform and defended 3:56:23.360 --> 3:56:26.840 it and DSA against bad way attacks. He's talked about 3:56:26.840 --> 3:56:29.920 the need for a new past to citizenship and just 3:56:30.000 --> 3:56:32.400 how cost prohibitive it is for immigrants to maintain the 3:56:32.480 --> 3:56:35.080 documented status, and Trump has made things even harder on 3:56:35.200 --> 3:56:39.360 purpose to manufacture a political crisis. On Foxy, argued very 3:56:39.400 --> 3:56:43.360 eloquently against providing Israel with so called defensive weapons, which 3:56:43.400 --> 3:56:47.360 he rejected as a categorical term. And he's gone toe 3:56:47.440 --> 3:56:51.480 to toe with Sean AKA Scott Hannity on tax reform 3:56:52.000 --> 3:56:54.680 earlier this week on Local ten. This Week in Florida, 3:56:55.280 --> 3:56:59.160 host Glenna Milberg abruptly cut off her interview with Larkin 3:56:59.600 --> 3:57:03.360 after he said that Israel has committed a genocide, which 3:57:03.560 --> 3:57:06.120 she claimed was quote unquote factually incorrect. 3:57:08.040 --> 3:57:08.160 Now. 3:57:08.320 --> 3:57:12.840 Also late last week, Lower Lumer and Democrat state Representative 3:57:13.080 --> 3:57:16.240 Michael Gottlieb tried to shut down a get out the 3:57:16.360 --> 3:57:20.400 vote rally for Larkin, Angie Nixon, and another DSA candidate, 3:57:20.480 --> 3:57:24.240 Elijah Manley, called chomp the oligarchy with a I want 3:57:24.280 --> 3:57:27.760 to say alligator or crocodile on front. Don't don't at me. 3:57:27.880 --> 3:57:31.160 It's going to be an alligator, right, whatever the ones 3:57:31.200 --> 3:57:35.840 are in Florida, alligator anything we have any indigenous crocodiles. 3:57:36.400 --> 3:57:40.240 Democrats State Rep. Michael Gottlieb said the rally was quote 3:57:40.280 --> 3:57:44.320 unquote anti jew and told his constituents to not support 3:57:44.440 --> 3:57:47.760 the venue hosting the event. Lor Lumer led an online 3:57:47.800 --> 3:57:52.840 harassment campaign targeting quote gie Hottist Congresswoman Rashida Talib, who 3:57:52.920 --> 3:57:55.720 was slated to speak at the rally. Lumer said that 3:57:55.760 --> 3:57:59.120 Telib was quote bringing her band of jew haters to 3:57:59.240 --> 3:58:02.960 South Florida and said that Oliver Larkin quote unquote hates 3:58:03.080 --> 3:58:06.560 Jewish people and that he's trying to primary Jared Massowitz 3:58:06.960 --> 3:58:11.680 because he is Jewish. Now, the venue originally contracted for 3:58:11.760 --> 3:58:16.520 the rally canceled. They pulled out when the organizers wouldn't 3:58:16.600 --> 3:58:20.640 remove Rashida Talib as a speaker. The rally was rescheduled 3:58:20.720 --> 3:58:24.680 for August fourteenth, and the organizers secured a second venue, 3:58:25.280 --> 3:58:28.720 which also canceled the night before the chomp. The Oligarchy 3:58:28.800 --> 3:58:32.040 rally was supposed to take place next morning. The organizers 3:58:32.080 --> 3:58:35.080 found a third location, which was kept secret until hours 3:58:35.160 --> 3:58:38.960 before the rally, which was then also streamed live, and 3:58:39.280 --> 3:58:41.600 the owner of that third venue, which did ultimately host 3:58:41.640 --> 3:58:45.160 the event, said that within hours his phone was bombarded 3:58:45.680 --> 3:58:49.200 with like six hundred messages from people protesting the rally. 3:58:49.880 --> 3:58:51.920 This kind of shows, like this, the speed and scale 3:58:52.000 --> 3:58:55.920 of the harassment campaign led by Lumer and this state Democrat. 3:58:56.680 --> 3:59:00.280 So unfortunately, you know, Larkin did not win. I'm interested 3:59:00.320 --> 3:59:02.160 to see what he does next. I think it would 3:59:02.160 --> 3:59:05.240 be a mistake if he just completely disappears. Think he's 3:59:05.280 --> 3:59:08.520 a good communicator, whether you know something like DSA national 3:59:08.600 --> 3:59:10.440 wants to tap into that, or if he wants to 3:59:11.000 --> 3:59:13.520 work on some other campaigns like Angie Nixon's campaign, which 3:59:13.640 --> 3:59:16.040 I think he's he's indicated he'll do. But but after 3:59:16.120 --> 3:59:18.080 the general be very interested to see what what he 3:59:18.200 --> 3:59:21.880 does in the future and to close Like at this 3:59:22.040 --> 3:59:24.800 point in like big cities, you know, in blue states, 3:59:25.680 --> 3:59:29.040 DSA are left socialist candidates can only really like run 3:59:29.120 --> 3:59:30.920 to win, like that's that's what you have to do. Now, 3:59:31.000 --> 3:59:34.720 there's no more of this like participation trophies. It's it's 3:59:34.760 --> 3:59:36.840 you have to you have to win. But it's it's 3:59:36.880 --> 3:59:39.720 also really important for DSA to expand their electoral efforts 3:59:39.760 --> 3:59:42.600 into red states and districts that are not solid blue 3:59:43.160 --> 3:59:45.240 and in that vein I think what DSA has done 3:59:45.280 --> 3:59:49.240 in Florida this primary reminds me of what nyc DSA 3:59:49.400 --> 3:59:52.840 was doing in New York like a decade ago, experimenting, building, 3:59:53.040 --> 3:59:55.800 organizing campaigns, running candidates. Even if there is a huge 3:59:55.840 --> 3:59:59.680 uphill battle, campaign volunteers get to you know, get experience, 4:00:00.320 --> 4:00:02.280 and you find your base of sport that can be 4:00:02.440 --> 4:00:05.520 built on in future races. And in that sense, I 4:00:05.640 --> 4:00:08.240 think what they were able to pull off, including in 4:00:08.280 --> 4:00:13.080 some very hostile districts, was impressive. Now will continue in 4:00:13.160 --> 4:00:16.560 some form with Angie Nixon running for Senate these next 4:00:16.600 --> 4:00:20.040 few months. Finally, finally, before we close, I should mention 4:00:20.360 --> 4:00:23.240 James fish Back, Enemy of the Pod, the Groyferd candidate 4:00:23.280 --> 4:00:28.760 for governor, came in third place in the GOP gobernatorial primary. 4:00:29.160 --> 4:00:33.240 He was expected to come in second, so that is interesting. 4:00:33.680 --> 4:00:37.040 But Jay Collins instead got second place with almost half 4:00:37.040 --> 4:00:43.720 a million votes. Oh, he got waxed Byron Donald's the 4:00:43.840 --> 4:00:47.720 expected winner one with eight hundred and ten thousand votes. 4:00:48.360 --> 4:00:51.760 Fishback got just less than two hundred thousand, which is 4:00:52.680 --> 4:00:56.040 way too many votes. He should not be He should 4:00:56.080 --> 4:00:59.160 not be getting that number of votes. That is not great. 4:00:59.600 --> 4:01:03.360 His can was very tailored to a type of voter. 4:01:03.480 --> 4:01:05.960 And also like places online and locations in the state 4:01:06.000 --> 4:01:09.640 that the other candidates were not tailoring for. So I 4:01:10.480 --> 4:01:12.840 I don't want to like overstate the sort of impact 4:01:12.960 --> 4:01:16.280 of Fishbeck's campaign because there was really no one else 4:01:16.400 --> 4:01:20.320 kind of going after that block, like especially late if 4:01:20.440 --> 4:01:23.160 Fishback was pivoting very hard into like anti data center 4:01:23.240 --> 4:01:24.960 stuff very late into the race to try to you know, 4:01:25.080 --> 4:01:28.520 attract more voters. Really, so like he was, he was 4:01:28.600 --> 4:01:30.880 doing stuff that other Republicans just were not doing, and 4:01:31.520 --> 4:01:35.120 you know, using that sneak o Nick Fuentes asthma Goold endorsement, 4:01:35.480 --> 4:01:38.440 which which which got him more than one hundred and 4:01:38.480 --> 4:01:41.400 fifty thousand votes, which is not great. 4:01:41.640 --> 4:01:42.880 Yeah is it is? 4:01:43.040 --> 4:01:45.800 It is just over ten percent of the Republican vote. 4:01:46.120 --> 4:01:48.920 I think Garrison and I made an episode about Fishback, 4:01:49.640 --> 4:01:50.720 god knows how long ago. 4:01:51.600 --> 4:01:54.280 Yeah, I don't know what he'll He'll he might just 4:01:54.320 --> 4:01:56.480 try to get some sort of like right wing far 4:01:56.600 --> 4:02:00.320 right pundit job in the future. We'll see. Yeah, yeah, 4:02:00.320 --> 4:02:00.800 I want to. 4:02:00.800 --> 4:02:04.920 I want to also convey so Sophie's message of fuck 4:02:05.000 --> 4:02:09.760 Byron Donald's this guy also sucks. But yeah, yeah, it's 4:02:09.800 --> 4:02:12.840 it's a Republican primary. They're all going to be like 4:02:13.680 --> 4:02:16.120 you're in a race with the worst, second worst or 4:02:16.160 --> 4:02:17.600 third worst person you've ever seen. 4:02:17.760 --> 4:02:23.240 So yeah, but yeah, that is that is Florida. Yeah, 4:02:23.600 --> 4:02:27.440 that is our our buye by annual Florida check in. 4:02:28.440 --> 4:02:32.000 If you are in Florida or elsewhere, you can email us. 4:02:32.200 --> 4:02:35.600 You're seeing the email address Cool Zone tips at Proton 4:02:35.760 --> 4:02:39.000 don't meet. Hey, you want it to be encrypted? Senate 4:02:39.000 --> 4:02:42.000 for another Proton address. Yeah, have fun with that, don't. 4:02:42.000 --> 4:02:44.200 It's still doing it with the fucking marketing emails. By 4:02:44.240 --> 4:02:46.160 the way, like every time I think I've blocked a 4:02:46.240 --> 4:02:48.800 you bastards. Unbelievable. 4:02:49.440 --> 4:02:50.720 Put a transgirl on your couch. 4:02:52.000 --> 4:02:53.000 We reported the news. 4:02:54.360 --> 4:02:55.320 We reported the news. 4:03:01.000 --> 4:03:04.120 Hey, We'll be back Monday with more episodes every week 4:03:04.240 --> 4:03:06.120 from now until the heat death of the Universe. 4:03:06.880 --> 4:03:09.360 It could Happen Here is a production of pool Zone Media. 4:03:09.560 --> 4:03:12.600 For more podcasts from cool Zone Media, visit our website 4:03:12.680 --> 4:03:16.240 folzonmedia dot com, or check us out on the iHeartRadio app, 4:03:16.360 --> 4:03:19.880 Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to podcasts. You can 4:03:19.960 --> 4:03:22.280 now find sources where it Could Happen here listed directly 4:03:22.320 --> 4:03:24.560 in episode descriptions. Thanks for listening.