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Speaker 2: Step out of a curtain and four hundred people will
Speaker 2: go nuts. And you've got to remember the other side
Speaker 2: of this camera is a sign that says applause. Daytonian,
Speaker 2: Emmy winning actress on TV screens for eight years. The
Speaker 2: man himself, James Corner. I went upstairs and I sat
Speaker 2: in his room and I just went to I need
Speaker 2: you to know that I haven't changed. I love you
Speaker 2: more than you will ever know, and he went.
Speaker 1: Before we jump into this episode, I'd like to invite
Speaker 1: you to join this community to hear more interviews that
Speaker 1: will help you become happier, healthier, and more healed. All
Speaker 1: I want you to do is click on the subscribe button.
Speaker 1: I love your support. It's incredible to see all your
Speaker 1: comments and we're just getting started. I can't wait to
Speaker 1: go on this journey with you. Thank you so much
Speaker 1: for subscribing. It means the world to me.
Speaker 2: The number one health and wellness podcast, say, said Jay.
Speaker 1: James. It is truly a honor and privilege to have
Speaker 1: you here today because I have to be honest with you.
Speaker 1: I've been a huge, huge, huge fan ever since Smithy
Speaker 1: and Comic Relief. And I was at the Grove just
Speaker 1: a couple of weeks ago and I was remembering how
Speaker 1: that's get started. There we're walking, yeah, and you walk
Speaker 1: into one of the rooms and you're with me. And
Speaker 1: so I've been such a huge fan from day one
Speaker 1: and watching you and admiring your journey, seeing you go
Speaker 1: crushing from the UK through to the US, and you know,
Speaker 1: I moved to the US a few years after you did,
Speaker 1: but just getting to see the impact you had there,
Speaker 1: the amazing, amazing content that you've created, I'm a big
Speaker 1: fan of, whether it's Spilly your Guts or Cardboard Carryoku,
Speaker 1: every single segment you guys produced, such a huge fan
Speaker 1: and so to be able to sit with you and
Speaker 1: even a few moments we've just spent together off camera,
Speaker 1: I've already enjoyed your company, but I wanted to start
Speaker 1: off by just saying I'm a huge fan and thank
Speaker 1: you for doing this.
Speaker 2: I'm a huge very great yours. I think what you've
Speaker 2: done is is really quite extraordinary. Actually, I really think.
Speaker 2: I think it's actually deeper than a successful podcast or
Speaker 2: show or booke. I think what you've done, really I think,
Speaker 2: and I'm sure I'm certainly not the first person to
Speaker 2: say this to you, is you've created like a safe
Speaker 2: place for people to talk about, to talk about mental health, health, everything,
Speaker 2: you know. What I mean feeling is the depth that
Speaker 2: I think is. Of course, we're more aware of today
Speaker 2: than we were a decade ago and certainly a decade
Speaker 2: before that, and I think you're You're a real big
Speaker 2: part of that. I'm a real fan of the show
Speaker 2: and it's given me a lot over the years. So
Speaker 2: it's a real thrill to be here. And I hope
Speaker 2: I can be deep enough to fulfill the needs required
Speaker 2: you know, well.
Speaker 1: For everyone, everyone who doesn't know. Everything that James was
Speaker 1: saying to me off camera just novel like James, save it.
Speaker 1: I need you to say it again because it was
Speaker 1: so it was perfect. But James, I was thinking about this,
Speaker 1: I was looking at your journey and I was saying,
Speaker 1: like you went from writing right Gavin and Stacey amazing success,
Speaker 1: gone to the West End, amazing success, Broadway Tony Award,
Speaker 1: amazing success, then moving off into Late Night, amazing success.
Speaker 1: And there was something I was observing about you, and
Speaker 1: I felt that what I saw in you was someone
Speaker 1: who had the ability to continuously disrupt themselves, take risks,
Speaker 1: and innovate when it seemed like there was a clear path.
Speaker 1: And I wonder whether what's the decision you've made right
Speaker 1: now is almost the same thing that you've said, I
Speaker 1: don't want the safe option. I'm willing to take the risk.
Speaker 1: Would you agree with that?
Speaker 2: Yes? I think so. I mean, it's really lovely of
Speaker 2: you to say that there's also misses in the middle
Speaker 2: of that, you know what I mean, at least very
Speaker 2: important to say that that curve could also be looked,
Speaker 2: do you know what I mean? There's as many misses
Speaker 2: as there is hits. You just want to keep that
Speaker 2: ratio as clean as you can. You know, in the
Speaker 2: sort of last sort of six months since finishing the show,
Speaker 2: and then the few months before that after when we
Speaker 2: announced that we were on the show, lots of people
Speaker 2: would say, you know, they would ask why you're doing
Speaker 2: this and why would you leave such a thing and
Speaker 2: such a contract and offer and all those things, which
Speaker 2: I completely understand. I've always been able to separate work
Speaker 2: and life and that the two one shouldn't outweigh the other.
Speaker 2: Does that make sense that actually you have to go, well,
Speaker 2: I know that for my career, Ruth and I could
Speaker 2: have Ruth Jones, who I co wrote Gavin and Stacey with,
Speaker 2: which was a show that became successful in the UK.
Speaker 2: We could of course have carried on writing that show
Speaker 2: and making more episodes of that show. But I don't
Speaker 2: know that that was at the time feeding our life.
Speaker 2: You know, I wasn't feeding mine, it wasn't feeding Ruth's.
Speaker 2: It was like, we've done that, it's time to stop.
Speaker 2: We have to do something else. And then, you know,
Speaker 2: I love being in plays. I love being in the theater.
Speaker 2: And when I was in One Man, Two Governors or
Speaker 2: The History Boys, there was a path where you could say, well,
Speaker 2: I could carry on doing this, and there were moments
Speaker 2: or opportunities to perhaps go and do another play after that,
Speaker 2: but it was like, well, I don't know that that's
Speaker 2: going to feed my life. So I think the key
Speaker 2: from or what I'm trying to do is go, well,
Speaker 2: if my work is feeding my life and my family,
Speaker 2: then it's of benefit and if it isn't, then it
Speaker 2: won't be. And I think some people perhaps often just
Speaker 2: look at their career as being the primary thing in
Speaker 2: their life. Well, the work is the thing. I'm going
Speaker 2: to do this, and I'm going to do that. Then
Speaker 2: I'm going to do this. Then I'm going to do that,
Speaker 2: and you have to go no, no, But but how
Speaker 2: is that feeding your life and your soul and who
Speaker 2: you are as a friend, son, brother, husband, father, you know?
Speaker 2: And that's the thing I think I've always thought about.
Speaker 2: So the decision to end the show had nothing to
Speaker 2: do with not enjoying it anymore. It had nothing to
Speaker 2: do with it not being fun. Financially, of course it
Speaker 2: was fantastic, But then it got to a point where
Speaker 2: it was like, is it feeding me and us as
Speaker 2: a family. Is this environment what we want now I
Speaker 2: don't think it is. Okay, well then we're going to
Speaker 2: then we're just going to turn it over and shake
Speaker 2: it and see what it is the other side of that.
Speaker 2: The thing I keep coming back to all the time
Speaker 2: in my in my life a lot recently is just
Speaker 2: to constantly say, well, we don't know yet. We don't know.
Speaker 2: I don't know yet. I can't tell you if it
Speaker 2: was a good thing or a bad thing to stop
Speaker 2: the show. I don't know. I will only know in
Speaker 2: a year or two years or maybe five years time,
Speaker 2: because you just don't know. You don't know at all.
Speaker 2: You know in the same time that you might accept
Speaker 2: a role over here, and when you get that job,
Speaker 2: people are going, oh my god, this is the greatest
Speaker 2: thing ever. And you say, well, we don't know. Me
Speaker 2: and my friend Louis wrote dear friend of mine, Louis
Speaker 2: who moved to America to come and write on the
Speaker 2: Late Late Show, you know, uprooted his family and moved.
Speaker 2: Oh oh, he didn't have a family at the time,
Speaker 2: had two kids. In the eight and a half years
Speaker 2: we were there, we wrote a TV show together which
Speaker 2: got picked up at Hulu or I wasn't going to
Speaker 2: be in it. We just created this show. And then
Speaker 2: a few months later we wrote two scripts and they
Speaker 2: really love the first that we wrote the second script
Speaker 2: and they said, look, we're just we're not going to
Speaker 2: make this show happens all the time, and I was
Speaker 2: really bummed. And my friend Louis said the best thing.
Speaker 2: He was like, look, if they'd have picked it up,
Speaker 2: it might have been the worst thing. It's whoever happened
Speaker 2: to it. We might have fallen out, we might have
Speaker 2: who knows what would have happened. It might have been
Speaker 2: a disaster. We just don't know.
Speaker 1: Yeah, you have no idea, Yeah, I don't know anything.
Speaker 1: You've reminded me of this beautiful zen story where a
Speaker 1: farmer finds a new horse. You know the story. Yeah, Yeah,
Speaker 1: the farmer finds a new horse and everyone's excited and
Speaker 1: they're like, wow, this beautiful horse you just came upon it,
Speaker 1: Like how lucky are you? And he says good thing,
Speaker 1: bad thing? Who knows? Yeah, And then his son's riding
Speaker 1: the horse and he looks incredible. But then all of
Speaker 1: a sudden, he gets tipped off the horse and his
Speaker 1: son falls off and breaks his leg, and everyone's like,
Speaker 1: oh no, this is the worst thing ever, Like if
Speaker 1: only you didn't bring that horse in, And he says
Speaker 1: good thing, bad thing?
Speaker 2: Who knows?
Speaker 1: And the story continues. And hearing you say that, it's
Speaker 1: really honest of you to share that, though, because I
Speaker 1: think sometimes when we make a decision, we often feel
Speaker 1: like we have to convince ourselves it's the best decision
Speaker 1: in order to make it through. But for you to
Speaker 1: actually have the vulnerability to say I actually don't know
Speaker 1: that takes a lot of courage.
Speaker 2: Well, I do know that that ending the show. I
Speaker 2: do know that the reasons for it are absolutely right,
Speaker 2: no question. But you don't know. You don't know how
Speaker 2: those things will. You just don't know, you don't know
Speaker 2: any of it. So if you can accept all of it,
Speaker 2: if you can just say, well, this is this is it,
Speaker 2: this is life. What we're doing now, me and you
Speaker 2: sitting here, this is it. We're doing it. You're alive.
Speaker 2: And I think sometimes the expectation of stuff is the
Speaker 2: thing which really ruins stuff. Your expectation of what holiday
Speaker 2: might be, your expectation of what Christmas Day was going
Speaker 2: to be like. The is actually the problem the thing
Speaker 2: that happened on holiday, or the argument you had on
Speaker 2: Christmas Day. That's not really the issue. I didn't have
Speaker 2: an argument on Christmas Day. I'm just using it as example.
Speaker 2: That's the thing I think is your expectation of well,
Speaker 2: when I do this, my life will be like that.
Speaker 2: And I think my life, I think I've thought that
Speaker 2: a lot of my life when I get my driver's license,
Speaker 2: my life will be like this. When I get a girlfriend,
Speaker 2: my life, when I get my when I move out
Speaker 2: of my parents' house, my life is going to be
Speaker 2: like this. And it's not it isn't it can't be.
Speaker 2: It's and what it is will be amazing. You're going
Speaker 2: to be alive, you know. And I think I just
Speaker 2: feel very accepting of everything now at the moment.
Speaker 1: There's something really beautiful that came out of what you said,
Speaker 1: this idea of reasons over results, Like you know your reasons.
Speaker 1: You don't know what the result will be, but you're
Speaker 1: sure about your reasons, and that's something we can all
Speaker 1: practice and take on. Like, I think that's something everyone
Speaker 1: who's watching can apply. That you never know the result
Speaker 1: of your decision, you don't know how it's going to
Speaker 1: pan out, but you can be sure.
Speaker 2: About your reasons without question.
Speaker 1: And if you feel clear about those and.
Speaker 2: To recalibrate, perhaps what success is and that's I think
Speaker 2: a big issue in a broader society. What is success?
Speaker 2: Success is not this amount of money. It's not this
Speaker 2: amount of gold statues and trophies. You know, you've got
Speaker 2: to look at it as a whole it's really interesting
Speaker 2: if there are numerous people who talk about the night
Speaker 2: that they won an Academy Award as being the loneliest
Speaker 2: night of their life, and yet for us looking in
Speaker 2: on that, you look and go, oh my god, that
Speaker 2: this is incredible. I would give anything.
Speaker 1: Do you think that is?
Speaker 2: Because I think it's more the climb is the thing.
Speaker 2: The top of a mountain I think can be quite
Speaker 2: a isolating experience actually, and the climb to the top
Speaker 2: of it is. And of course when you get that,
Speaker 2: it's amazing because you go, oh my god, we did
Speaker 2: you know what I mean, we did it. It's like
Speaker 2: someone that takes a helicopter to the top of Everest
Speaker 2: is not going to have the same experience as a
Speaker 2: person who's climbed it. Absolutely you're looking at the same view,
Speaker 2: but it's going to be it's going to feel very
Speaker 2: very difficiure. I also think it's it's an incredibly you know,
Speaker 2: the anxiety of it, that the fear of it, I
Speaker 2: can only I don't know. I'm not I don't know,
Speaker 2: I can only imagine. And so I think because I
Speaker 2: think that what you realize is that the doing of
Speaker 2: the work and the climb of it is the thing
Speaker 2: that is the most satisfying, And how can there be
Speaker 2: such a thing as best? Yeah, how ever, you can
Speaker 2: be the fastest runner over one hundred meters. That's not
Speaker 2: up for debate, you saying Bolt, you are the fastest
Speaker 2: runner over one hundred meters. You can't be the best films.
Speaker 2: That's impossible.
Speaker 1: You know, it's more subjective.
Speaker 2: Of course it is and should be.
Speaker 1: Yeah, where did your drive for success come from? You
Speaker 1: just said that you've realized now that success is not
Speaker 1: you know, the bank balance or this or that these
Speaker 1: specific things. Where did your initial drive for success come from?
Speaker 1: Did you always define success in a particular way or
Speaker 1: was it just what you think everyone in our generation
Speaker 1: was almost chasing?
Speaker 2: I don't know. I think for me really from I
Speaker 2: really don't remember a time that I didn't want to perform.
Speaker 2: I just don't remember a time that I didn't want
Speaker 2: to just perform.
Speaker 1: Did you perform at school and at home and.
Speaker 2: In everywhere everywhere? I would call it performing. I'm sure
Speaker 2: some people would call it showing off? My mum, would
Speaker 2: you know, oscillate between the two? Stop showing off? Still?
Speaker 2: You know, like I just I just loved I just loved.
Speaker 2: I loved performing in in in any shape or form,
Speaker 2: school play, church, playground. I just I really really loved it.
Speaker 2: Like I can remember so vividly the first time I
Speaker 2: was ever sort of on what we call a stage.
Speaker 2: So we grew up in I was we were a
Speaker 2: family that we're in the Savage Army, which is a church,
Speaker 2: but that's also a charity. And like any church you're
Speaker 2: born into, you think that this is completely normal, you know,
Speaker 2: any church you're wanting to, and then like whether we
Speaker 2: you know, we would like put on a uniform and
Speaker 2: we would my dad would you know, occasionally march down
Speaker 2: the road in a brass band and we would do
Speaker 2: Christmas caroling and I would play the trumpet, and you
Speaker 2: just thought, well, this is just completely life. And then
Speaker 2: you get to about fifteen and you're like, guys, this
Speaker 2: is really weird. But it was essentially a church and
Speaker 2: that's what we'd go to. And a church, from what
Speaker 2: I can really work out now retrospectively, was perhaps full
Speaker 2: of the least Christian people I've ever met in my life,
Speaker 2: you know, like many churches, you know, and its core
Speaker 2: good infect it with people become something very very different
Speaker 2: and and So we're in high wickhambe in Buckham Shehar
Speaker 2: and my sister was three, No four, My sister Ruth
Speaker 2: was four and it was her christening, and we were
Speaker 2: on the platform, which was you know, tall, intensive purposes,
Speaker 2: looked felt like a stage to me, and the savage
Speaker 2: army officer, the vicar, the priest I couldn't see because
Speaker 2: I was, you know, quite smart. He said, let's get
Speaker 2: James a chair, and I stood on this chair and
Speaker 2: I could just see there was maybe, I don't know,
Speaker 2: thirty people in the congregation, it looked like a thousand,
Speaker 2: and I just started like pulling these faces and turned
Speaker 2: around and looked back through my legs and people are chuckling,
Speaker 2: and I was like, well, this feels fantastic. And then
Speaker 2: what I really remember is sitting back down in the
Speaker 2: congregation and I was sat between my mum and dad
Speaker 2: and person's back is in front of me, and I
Speaker 2: remember being like, well, this is boring. This is nearly
Speaker 2: as much fun as being up there. And I was
Speaker 2: seven at the time, and No I was four, and
Speaker 2: my sister was obviously a newborn, so I was four,
Speaker 2: and I remember just thinking, well, this is that's that's it.
Speaker 2: Now life is a quest to be up there as
Speaker 2: much as possible.
Speaker 1: Oh that's beautiful.
Speaker 2: So I think that's what I always thought successful was
Speaker 2: like my my absolute ambitions were to be in a
Speaker 2: West End musical. That was it. That was like, that
Speaker 2: was the peak and literally it was a road away
Speaker 2: from where we are now at the Prince Edward Theater
Speaker 2: and I was seventeen and Inner musical and I was
Speaker 2: I honestly genuinely was like, well that's it for me.
Speaker 2: I will it cannot be greater than this. That's how
Speaker 2: that's where my absolute ambitions were, to be just on
Speaker 2: a West End stage.
Speaker 1: That's verytacular. I mean you said there were missus naturally
Speaker 1: in the journey that I laid out in the beginning.
Speaker 1: I wonder what were some of the most painful or
Speaker 1: tough missus, whether when you were younger, as you got older,
Speaker 1: what were the ones that you look to and say,
Speaker 1: I'd love people to know about this or learn about this,
Speaker 1: because when you look at it from the outside, it
Speaker 1: is easy to see. But these are the couple that
Speaker 1: maybe would surprise us.
Speaker 2: Well, well, there's things that you do that just naturally
Speaker 2: aren't very good. That's the first you know what I mean.
Speaker 2: There's things that you do and they're not they're not
Speaker 2: very good. Those things you understand why they didn't connect
Speaker 2: because they're not very good, you know. And oddly I
Speaker 2: don't feel a sort of sense of any disappointment in
Speaker 2: that area, do you know what I mean? Because someone
Speaker 2: asked me once because I was in that film. I
Speaker 2: was in that film Cats, right of the musical Cats
Speaker 2: and that you know, I haven't seen it, but like
Speaker 2: by all accounts, not good and didn't do very well.
Speaker 2: And someone said to me, oh God, do you regret that.
Speaker 2: I was like, no, I'll do it again. I had
Speaker 2: a great time. You have to separate sometimes your own
Speaker 2: experience and the outcome of a project, because you can
Speaker 2: do things that do really well, but at that time
Speaker 2: in your life it was a disaster.
Speaker 1: Do you know what I meant?
Speaker 2: And at the same time, at the same time, you
Speaker 2: can do stuff which isn't good, but actually you had
Speaker 2: a really great you know what I mean. You know,
Speaker 2: when we were shooting Cats, we had an afternoon and
Speaker 2: I sat in this weird green suit with dots on
Speaker 2: your face with Ian McKellen and Judy Dench and I
Speaker 2: wouldn't swap that friend to literally sit and talk to
Speaker 2: Syrian McKellen and Dame Judy Dench about I couldn't tell
Speaker 2: you what we talked about. I can't tell you if
Speaker 2: it you know. And I was like, well, how lucky
Speaker 2: am I? This is extraordinary? So I think I did this.
Speaker 2: I did a TV show which came out I think
Speaker 2: about maybe just two years ago now, maybe eighteen months ago,
Speaker 2: which was Amazon called Mammals, which I was really proud of,
Speaker 2: and I really, I really hoped that people would find
Speaker 2: that and they didn't. That's the only that's the only
Speaker 2: thing that I look at and I think, ah, because
Speaker 2: it got reviewed. Well, it's written by I think the
Speaker 2: best living playwright at the moment, you know, or certainly
Speaker 2: young living playwright called Jez Butterworth, who wrote like Jerusalem
Speaker 2: and The Ferryman and Mojo, but then also wrote Skyfall
Speaker 2: and Specter and Indiana Jones. And it was me and
Speaker 2: Sally Hawkins and Melia Cralling. And that's that's the only
Speaker 2: That's what I would say. That's the only thing that
Speaker 2: I go, Ah, I wonder what we could have done
Speaker 2: differently to make people find it, But then we don't
Speaker 2: know yet.
Speaker 1: Yeah, you don't know, We don't know. You don't know
Speaker 1: when it's going to take off again, Like I love
Speaker 1: hearing about but even if.
Speaker 2: It doesn't, don't you know who know? You know what
Speaker 2: I mean? Like you just you just have to.
Speaker 1: I love what you just said, mate. I love that
Speaker 1: perspective of the idea that and I can relate to that.
Speaker 1: I've had moments in my life where I'm having one
Speaker 1: of my biggest external career wins, but I didn't have
Speaker 1: the right people around me to celebrate it with, and
Speaker 1: therefore it's not as gratifying or as celebratory, or it's
Speaker 1: not as meaningful, whereas you could have had something that
Speaker 1: externally like no one cared, but you had the people
Speaker 1: around you where you knew what you'd built and you
Speaker 1: knew what you'd created. And I love that that resonated
Speaker 1: so strongly, honestly.
Speaker 2: Well, also the notion that I don't know. The way
Speaker 2: I see it is every single day your life can
Speaker 2: get turned over and flipped on its head in a
Speaker 2: phone call. Every single day. Like I used to say
Speaker 2: that to my wife Julia all the time when we
Speaker 2: were in Los Angeles, right go. Every day we live
Speaker 2: here in the phone ring in the middle of the
Speaker 2: night to tell us something's happened at home is an
Speaker 2: absolute win. It's an absolute win. And you just have
Speaker 2: to be so aware that those things are coming and
Speaker 2: those things are real, and all the stuff that we're
Speaker 2: talking about over here at work and all those things.
Speaker 2: It's it's not it isn't. It isn't those things that
Speaker 2: are just gonna just bang and you're and then you're
Speaker 2: talking about life before and after, before and after those moments.
Speaker 2: Like I was talking to a friend of mine the
Speaker 2: other day, you know, and I'm forty five, and my
Speaker 2: friend said to me, and it's quite a dark thought,
Speaker 2: but actually it's good to He said, We've he said
Speaker 2: he's forty five also, and he said, we've we've turned
Speaker 2: the corner into sniper's alley. And I said, what do
Speaker 2: you mean. I didn't know what he meant. And he
Speaker 2: said to You're now in an alley and suddenly people
Speaker 2: are going to just and you're going to go, oh
Speaker 2: my god. Like it's just that it's that that shift
Speaker 2: in life of like, oh, this is where like I'm
Speaker 2: very fortunate both my parents are still alive, so that's inevitable.
Speaker 2: That's definite, and then you're in this world of just
Speaker 2: absolute unknowns. So I think the older I get, just
Speaker 2: the less I sort of think about work in that way.
Speaker 2: I just don't. And maybe because I've had six months
Speaker 2: of real reflection, six months of not really doing anything,
Speaker 2: you know, started this podcast that I'm really really enjoying.
Speaker 2: Outside of that, I'm writing some stuff. Some of it
Speaker 2: I hope people will see. Other stuff I'm certain they
Speaker 2: never will, you know what I mean? And you know,
Speaker 2: and some of it I hope they never will. That's
Speaker 2: a terrible idea, you know. And you just don't know.
Speaker 2: And so I just think less about work and I
Speaker 2: want to think more about my health and all those
Speaker 2: all those things. You know.
Speaker 1: Yeah, walk me through what like, like you've had all
Speaker 1: these transitions in your life, walk me through what your
Speaker 1: reflection process looks like in your head, like just for
Speaker 1: you personally, Like it doesn't have to be systematic or perfect,
Speaker 1: Just what is it? What do you go through? Is
Speaker 1: it looking at going well? Am I helping my family?
Speaker 1: Am I taking care of them? Is that the number
Speaker 1: one thing? Or are there other things that go through
Speaker 1: your head? Because I feel like you've had to make
Speaker 1: some big transitions.
Speaker 2: Well, that's that is that's that's the number one. I
Speaker 2: think you're only as happy as your least happy child
Speaker 2: is a wonderful saying, which is without question true. There
Speaker 2: is there is nothing that can happen in your professional
Speaker 2: life that will matter if one of your children is unhealthy, unwell,
Speaker 2: either mentally or physically. This is irrelevant. So that's let's
Speaker 2: park that as a as a given. Yes, very clear
Speaker 2: In terms of my reflection, I mainly I just think
Speaker 2: like I'm so aware of time and the and the
Speaker 2: and the passage of time, and that this is this
Speaker 2: is it, and you have to go, Okay, well, now,
Speaker 2: how do you really really want to use your time?
Speaker 2: Because I think when I was hosting the show, I
Speaker 2: think I probably knew this at the time, but I
Speaker 2: recognize it more now that I think I said yes
Speaker 2: a lot, perhaps to too much, because I I just
Speaker 2: loved I knew I wasn't going to host that show forever.
Speaker 2: I didn't want it to be the end of the book.
Speaker 2: I didn't want it to be the last thing I did,
Speaker 2: so I didn't want it to be a shock when
Speaker 2: I finished the show and said I'm going to go
Speaker 2: back to act again now, because I was very aware
Speaker 2: that there was a lot of people watching that show
Speaker 2: who had no idea that I'd ever acted before. So
Speaker 2: I really just said, yes, I'll do it, I'll be there,
Speaker 2: I'll do it, and I think I understand my reasons
Speaker 2: for it. But now I think mainly the thing I'm
Speaker 2: really thinking is forget what you can do, Forget what's possible,
Speaker 2: Forget what's in front of you, Forget what's offered to
Speaker 2: you or not offered to you. What do you actually
Speaker 2: want to do? What is worthy of your time? What
Speaker 2: is worth not taking your kids to school in the
Speaker 2: morning or picking them up at four o'clock, what other thing?
Speaker 2: Because that's really the question you're asking yourself, you know,
Speaker 2: And like, I don't have like so much money that
Speaker 2: I don't have to ever work again, I really really don't.
Speaker 2: Whatever you might read on the internet, I cannot stress
Speaker 2: you untrue. And so you know, it's that thing of
Speaker 2: just going, well, what do you what do you want
Speaker 2: to do? Is there anything that you want to say?
Speaker 2: And if there isn't, then don't and then and it
Speaker 2: will come, It will will it will, it will come.
Speaker 2: And you know, it's interesting this since moving back to London,
Speaker 2: and I feel in a different cultural space. I'm trying
Speaker 2: my absolute best to hit ten thousand steps a day.
Speaker 2: That's I'm really, really, really trying to do that. And
Speaker 2: so sometimes I'll just go and once the kids are asleep,
Speaker 2: I'll go and I'll be I'll look and I'm looking
Speaker 2: at eight thousand steps and I'm like, babe, she's gonna go.
Speaker 2: And and I'll literally walk up and down the road
Speaker 2: and to come back in. And in that time of walking,
Speaker 2: I'm starting to feel the notion of like, oh, it's
Speaker 2: maybe that's is that an interesting idea, But don't leap
Speaker 2: on it. Yes, don't go, that's it. Let's go, let's
Speaker 2: book a flight, let's pitch it is to go. I
Speaker 2: let's let it. Let's see if it almost just to
Speaker 2: treat it like a plant, really, and we're going to
Speaker 2: water it for a minute, see if there's something there.
Speaker 2: And then and already now I'm like, well, thank god
Speaker 2: I didn't go and tell someone about that. Have you
Speaker 2: ever read that thing about doing the thing? Yes, yes,
Speaker 2: I mean that's my I just I just look at
Speaker 2: that almost every day, doing the thing. Just do the thing,
Speaker 2: don't talk about doing the thing. Don't tweet about doing
Speaker 2: the thing, don't just do the thing. The doing the
Speaker 2: thing is the thing, and that's all I'm really trying
Speaker 2: to do.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's it's fascinating because I find, like, you know,
Speaker 1: you've been performing, as you said, you love performing when
Speaker 1: you're a kid, You've been performing for decades now, and
Speaker 1: it's almost like an identity shift when you stop yourself
Speaker 1: from performing an in a I'm talking about performing in
Speaker 1: a play or in a movie or on stage, Like
Speaker 1: you're not allowing yourself to do something that I feel
Speaker 1: so pure and true, and I can see in your
Speaker 1: eyes when you were talking about it, like brings you
Speaker 1: to life and almost removing yourself away from that requires
Speaker 1: you to rethink your identity a little, like who are
Speaker 1: you today? Or how are you feeling about who you
Speaker 1: are when you're not performing when you've been so used
Speaker 1: to entertaining crowds for so long.
Speaker 2: But that's ego. I think that's ego. That's what we're
Speaker 2: talking about, is ego. I lived for eight and a
Speaker 2: half years what could only be described as a narcissists stream.
Speaker 2: Do you know what I mean? And I cannot stress
Speaker 2: how much I think being the host of a late
Speaker 2: night TV show is one of the greatest jobs in
Speaker 2: the world. I think it's amazing. I think it is brilliant. Like,
Speaker 2: my god, how lucky am I to have done that?
Speaker 2: I think it's amazing. You know. But if you were
Speaker 2: an other way and climb you, you know, drive into
Speaker 2: a studio lot, you drive past a massive picture of
Speaker 2: your face. So that's that's the first thing you see
Speaker 2: when you get to work is a huge picture of
Speaker 2: your face and your name. You then park in an
Speaker 2: amazing parking spot with your name on it. You go in,
Speaker 2: like I tee. The thing I miss most about the show,
Speaker 2: it was my like I miss seeing there's a great
Speaker 2: lady called Tea who was on the front desk and
Speaker 2: see Bess and I would just my interaction with her
Speaker 2: every day. I just grew to love it so much.
Speaker 2: Morning Tea, Morning James, how's it going? All good? And
Speaker 2: as I walk through the door, she'd say, have a
Speaker 2: good one, and I go, have a good one. And
Speaker 2: it would be a racter who could say, at first
Speaker 2: you get in a lift, you come out the lift
Speaker 2: to be greeted by another picture of your face. Do
Speaker 2: you know it's like another picture of your face and
Speaker 2: your name. You turn a corner and then you start
Speaker 2: walking up corridor and there is just your name and
Speaker 2: faces everywhere, right everywhere. Then you get to say, well,
Speaker 2: what are we going to do tonight? Back up, and
Speaker 2: then you get to like shoot a sketch with Matt
Speaker 2: Damon or drive around in a car with Stevie Wonder.
Speaker 2: Then you'll come back into work, get dressed. You work
Speaker 2: also in a gang of people who are the funniest
Speaker 2: people you've ever met in your life ever, and they
Speaker 2: only want to try and make you seem funnier and
Speaker 2: that's amazing. And you chat with them and you're hanging
Speaker 2: out with them, and then good day, bad day, in
Speaker 2: different day. Your day will end with a standing ovation
Speaker 2: right step out of a curtain and four hundred people
Speaker 2: will go nuts. And you've got to remember. And the
Speaker 2: thing that I would just remember all the time is
Speaker 2: the other side of this camera is a sign that
Speaker 2: says applause, you know what I mean. There is people
Speaker 2: going it go you know what I mean. And the
Speaker 2: walk down from the from the office green room to
Speaker 2: the studio is an amazing change in your psyche because
Speaker 2: you're with all you're buying and very slowly. I remember
Speaker 2: the first show because really you're in a gang. You're
Speaker 2: in a team where you make a late night show.
Speaker 2: It's just a gang. You're all making it together. And
Speaker 2: then at some point people tap you on the shoulder
Speaker 2: and go have a good one. And then you are
Speaker 2: surrounded by people. You walk it, microphone, make up, touch
Speaker 2: at the You enter a door and you hear, you know,
Speaker 2: the other side of this thing. You hear four hundred
Speaker 2: people screaming. You're going, okay, that's everybody on your feet.
Speaker 2: Let's go. This is how we do that. Another look
Speaker 2: at the jar right everywhere. Here we go, let's get around, okay,
Speaker 2: and we got five four three, And you find yourself
Speaker 2: stood behind a curtain, completely on your own, and suddenly
Speaker 2: this team effort, you're just you are on your own,
Speaker 2: and the spotlight's behind you. So this this circle is
Speaker 2: on the curtain and the shadow of you. And I
Speaker 2: used to stand there and open my hands, take a breath.
Speaker 2: I would look and I would say to him, I
Speaker 2: always have this feeling that my granddad is getting a
Speaker 2: real kick out of all this. So he is not
Speaker 2: with me in any spiritual sense. He's just in for
Speaker 2: the right of it, you know, like I know that
Speaker 2: he just you know, he's a jazz musician. He would
Speaker 2: be like, this is fun, Jose, you know, and I
Speaker 2: would open my eyes and I would look up and
Speaker 2: I would say, be with me, Just be with me,
Speaker 2: and be here now and for the next hour. Your
Speaker 2: only job is to enjoy yourself as much as you can.
Speaker 2: It doesn't matter what's happened all day, it doesn't matter
Speaker 2: what happens on tomorrow show. You're only a job is
Speaker 2: to enjoy this right now. I and I did, and
Speaker 2: I you know, we did one one hundred and ninety
Speaker 2: eight shows, I think, and I just loved it. I
Speaker 2: loved it. So it's a lot to leave behind, it's
Speaker 2: a lot to walk away from. But I also think
Speaker 2: this period of silence is so good for me. I'm
Speaker 2: getting as I'm getting as much or more from this
Speaker 2: period now, Like I you know, it's so odd that
Speaker 2: I used to do that every day that then even
Speaker 2: speaking to you now, I'm like, God, I haven't spoken
Speaker 2: to anybody in this sense.
Speaker 1: Yes, yes, since.
Speaker 2: April, i'n't done anything, and so it feels odd. You're like,
Speaker 2: oh man, this is and the podcast I'm doing I'm
Speaker 2: loving because I'm in your chair and I'm but even
Speaker 2: now this feels unnatural, and there is a feeling of
Speaker 2: like I don't know what I've got to say. But
Speaker 2: then you go, but I'm gonna I'm gonna get to
Speaker 2: meet Jay, so that would be lovely, you know, So
Speaker 2: what is life without it? It's it's great. It's great,
Speaker 2: I think because I really really always knew that this
Speaker 2: wasn't going to be forever. I always knew I wanted
Speaker 2: to leave before it ebbed away. I just knew that
Speaker 2: I wanted to to to do it and then stop
Speaker 2: doing it and see if there's something else, and if
Speaker 2: there isn't, okay, great, who could wish for more? Do
Speaker 2: you know what I mean? I guess that's the thing
Speaker 2: is I look now and I think I don't want
Speaker 2: any more stuff or fame or all those things. Like
Speaker 2: what I'd really love to do is go. I wonder
Speaker 2: if I've got one more thing to write. I wonder
Speaker 2: if there's one more thing to say, Like I wonder
Speaker 2: if there's just something else.
Speaker 1: I don't know yet what a brilliant way to live.
Speaker 1: I mean, when you just said that the idea of
Speaker 1: I knew that it wasn't going to last forever, and
Speaker 1: I didn't want it to. That's so the opposite of
Speaker 1: how we're conditioned to think. Most of us are conditioned
Speaker 1: to believe when you find something good, hold on to
Speaker 1: it forever, make sure it lasts forever, because you never know.
Speaker 1: And I love your perspective because I think not only
Speaker 1: is it healthier for the mind and the ego, it's
Speaker 1: actually the reality of life that everything is ephemeral and
Speaker 1: transient and it will move anyway. Yeah, and so you
Speaker 1: wanting to hold onto something that isn't yours to control
Speaker 1: is almost a fool's game anyway.
Speaker 2: Well, then you're a kid with a balloon. Yeah, right,
Speaker 2: and you got hold I'm never I'm never ever going
Speaker 2: to let this balloon go, right, And ignoring for this
Speaker 2: for a second, the environmental impact of letting a balloon go.
Speaker 2: Let's talk about it just metaphorically. You know that you go, oh,
Speaker 2: this is my balloon, and hold this Broun'd never ever, ever, ever,
Speaker 2: ever going to let go of this balloon. In fact,
Speaker 2: I'm going to go I'm going to tie it to
Speaker 2: my wrist so it can't disappear. Because that happened to
Speaker 2: me once before, and it you know what I mean,
Speaker 2: I'm gonna just you know, that's it. And then slowly
Speaker 2: that balloon will just wilt and it will run out
Speaker 2: of the thing that made it great and it will
Speaker 2: just then be. Then it's tied to your wrist and
Speaker 2: you're dragging it behind you, right, and actually there's something
Speaker 2: quite beautiful. And again, environmentally, I'm not encouraging this. We
Speaker 2: didn't we didn't know about this when we were kids.
Speaker 2: When you let go of a balloon, it's magical, magical.
Speaker 2: And then you see it and you're like, oh my god,
Speaker 2: I used to have that. I used to hold on
Speaker 2: to that and look at it. Now, look it's just
Speaker 2: that's amazing. And then you go and now I haven't
Speaker 2: got a balloon. And then you go, well, maybe I'll
Speaker 2: get another one. Yeah, maybe there'll be another balloon, and
Speaker 2: maybe it'll be a different shape, or it'll be shinier
Speaker 2: or whatever. It is. Like, you've got to be able
Speaker 2: to let go of stuff to make new things come in.
Speaker 2: You've got to have the space and the time to
Speaker 2: encounter something new. A friend of mine a year ago,
Speaker 2: maybe less, had his heart broken in the most brutal circumstances.
Speaker 2: It was his first love, first girlfriend, and they broke
Speaker 2: up and he was just not in a good way.
Speaker 2: And this was his first real proper serious girlfriend, certainly
Speaker 2: the first time he'd been in love before. I just
Speaker 2: found myself saying to him. I was like, this is great,
Speaker 2: This is great because you really only understand what love
Speaker 2: is once your heart's been broken. You understand how tender
Speaker 2: it is. And I was like, and you understand it now,
Speaker 2: and what you're looking at this all wrong? You get
Speaker 2: to do it again. You get to do this again.
Speaker 2: You're going to meet someone else and feel all these
Speaker 2: feelings and perhaps you'll go into that relationship learning what
Speaker 2: you've learned from this relationship and that will then feed
Speaker 2: that relationship in a different way. And he's just met someone, right,
Speaker 2: and he's like, oh my god, this is amazing saying
Speaker 2: and I'm like.
Speaker 1: Yeah, got that balloon again.
Speaker 2: Yeah, Like that's it, that's it. And so again, I
Speaker 2: think it's expectation is the thing that that that makes
Speaker 2: us hold onto stuff. If you can just ebb and
Speaker 2: flow with stuff, you're going to find it so much
Speaker 2: easier to take the good, the bad, and the everything
Speaker 2: in between. It's just all being good for you.
Speaker 3: I think, James, you're a philosopher who knew we're going
Speaker 3: to add to the list we're gonna have to add
Speaker 3: it to the list of list of the tis No
Speaker 3: genuine I mean that visual you just painted of the balloon,
Speaker 3: that's going to stay with me for a long time.
Speaker 1: I've probably never heard it.
Speaker 2: I didn't, I don't, I don't. I don't know that
Speaker 2: it's a thing. I think we just might have you
Speaker 2: made it up, but it is so made it up. Yeah,
Speaker 2: there's taken Banksy's image.
Speaker 1: That's it's such a beautiful way of sharing that lesson.
Speaker 1: There's you know, a zen saying that says what's holding
Speaker 1: you back is what you're holding on to? Yeah, and
Speaker 1: that's you know. But that visual that you just painted
Speaker 1: is so powerful. And even the visual that you painted
Speaker 1: of saying that you come out to all this ruptuous
Speaker 1: applause and you know, the whuhahn, the idea of you
Speaker 1: coming out into the stage, but you're thinking about the
Speaker 1: fact that the screen says applause on the other side.
Speaker 2: Because I think if you don't, it's really dangerous. I
Speaker 2: think it's really dangerous.
Speaker 1: Were you conscious of that? And have you been conscious
Speaker 1: of that the whole time in your career.
Speaker 2: Because not the whole time.
Speaker 1: When did that become like a real Because that's Marcus
Speaker 1: aurelius meditations at its best. Marcus Aurelius famously had a
Speaker 1: Marcus Aurelius. When he would walk around the Roman town square,
Speaker 1: he had an assistant that would follow him around, and
Speaker 1: the role of the assistant was that whenever anyone in
Speaker 1: the town square would say, Marcus Aurelius, you are such
Speaker 1: an amazing emperor. You are phenomenal, You're in credible, the
Speaker 1: assistant's only job was to whisper in his ear, You're
Speaker 1: just a man, You're just a man. Wow, and that
Speaker 1: sort of practice. And so when you said that, that's
Speaker 1: what that's the first thing I thought of. When I
Speaker 1: didn't know you said the applause, I was like, wow,
Speaker 1: you know you're you're living that.
Speaker 2: I think I've probably fallen into the pitfall of thinking
Speaker 2: I was more of a dude than I really was
Speaker 2: quite early issue in my career. I think, I guess
Speaker 2: in a way, I think I'm I think I don't know.
Speaker 2: I think I'm sort of entering phase three, right, Yeah,
Speaker 2: if phase one was history Boys, writing Gavin and Stacey.
Speaker 2: Phase two was moving was one was going to Broadway
Speaker 2: to do One Man, Two Governors, everything that came with that,
Speaker 2: and then ending up hosting a late night TV show.
Speaker 2: And phase three will be whatever this is. And I
Speaker 2: don't know. I I mean, look, I've fallen into all
Speaker 2: those pitfalls of thinking that you're more of a dude
Speaker 2: than you really are, thinking any of this is it's
Speaker 2: like fame and that was successful whatever, you know, level
Speaker 2: of that I kind of have in a way like
Speaker 2: it's on the whole a picnic, right, It's great, it's great,
Speaker 2: it's it's lovely. People come up, they talk about things
Speaker 2: and that all you things that they that they've liked
Speaker 2: or enjoyed. And certainly being back here in London, you know,
Speaker 2: it's amazing hearing people talk about like Gavin and Stacey
Speaker 2: and stuff which obviously I would never hear in Americans.
Speaker 2: And I'm so proud of that show. And I think
Speaker 2: it's I've started to think of like, don't confuse the selfie, right,
Speaker 2: I don't think I think for me, I think it's
Speaker 2: different if you're like Brad Pitt, Harry Styles. Do you
Speaker 2: know what I mean adele like, I think that's a different,
Speaker 2: that's that's a whole. That's an aura and an orb
Speaker 2: of fame, which I think is not what I'm talking
Speaker 2: about now, whereas I think on the whole, when people
Speaker 2: are asking for a selfie with me, it isn't really
Speaker 2: anything to do with me. I think it's just people go, well,
Speaker 2: this is going to be good on my story, right,
Speaker 2: I do no, I do no, I'm not That is
Speaker 2: not any fogy. I genuinely believe that. I think people
Speaker 2: are going, well, he's there, he's only over there, this
Speaker 2: is gonna this is going to be great in amongst
Speaker 2: the other four photos of my day, right and so,
Speaker 2: and I love taking photo people. I don't say no.
Speaker 2: So I used to say no when I was with
Speaker 2: my kids or but but now they have a bit
Speaker 2: a bit better understanding of it, and I don't need
Speaker 2: to hold their hands all the time. Since that was
Speaker 2: my My wife was like, you cannot give your attention
Speaker 2: to someone else when they're that night. So Charlotte master
Speaker 2: Road whatever, So Charlotte siks. So if I'm out with
Speaker 2: like you know, my two eldists, it's always a lot
Speaker 2: easier now, and it's people are people are really great
Speaker 2: in corner. But I don't ever, ever in my ever
Speaker 2: in my life, go I got all these people, they
Speaker 2: just want to photo. What can I say? I just
Speaker 2: go no, no, no, this is They didn't find me,
Speaker 2: They've been waiting for me. I just happened to be
Speaker 2: in the same Joe and the juices there, you know
Speaker 2: what I mean. And it's like, as well, you.
Speaker 1: Know, I love that. That's amazing. But no, I do
Speaker 1: love how our conscious you're aware of that, and it's
Speaker 1: a it's it's it's so it's so fun because that mindset,
Speaker 1: that approach to success, that approach to fame, makes everything
Speaker 1: just feel wonderful and beautiful and it makes everything so
Speaker 1: you know, in the sense of when I don't I
Speaker 1: don't mean perfection, I mean in the sense of it
Speaker 1: gives you a sense of joying and interaction, removing the
Speaker 1: expectation and the weight that can come with it.
Speaker 2: Yeah. I also just think you have to just take
Speaker 2: it all with a bag of salt. Yeah, all of it, everything,
Speaker 2: everything good bad. You know, it's if you just can
Speaker 2: take it with the same bag of soult and distance
Speaker 2: yourself from it, you can just sort of go well
Speaker 2: that's over there, that's happening over there, and but I'm
Speaker 2: but what's really I'm here, and here are my friends
Speaker 2: and my fan and all those things, and just and
Speaker 2: also just being so aware of like how lucky you are,
Speaker 2: how lucky you are, and if you lose sense of that.
Speaker 2: And I understand when people do, by the way, and
Speaker 2: I have, you know, other points in my career, in
Speaker 2: my life, and I don't. I'm not walking around like
Speaker 2: this every day. I have all those same things, right,
Speaker 2: So this it's not like I'm sort of floating around
Speaker 2: like I'm really really not. And a lot of this
Speaker 2: really is predicated on just how much sleep I get.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's true for all of us.
Speaker 2: Like that is it?
Speaker 1: You know what I've been on this supplement rec I
Speaker 1: was talking to my So I'm very into you know,
Speaker 1: buyer hacking and health and all the rest of it.
Speaker 1: So I was I was been testing this supplement I've
Speaker 1: been having for the last thirty days, and it's it's
Speaker 1: like boosted my mitochondrias so much that I can't get
Speaker 1: to sleep. I have so much energy. And I was
Speaker 1: telling I was telling my doctor, I was like, hey,
Speaker 1: I really want to sleep like I enjoy sleep. I'm
Speaker 1: someone I'm not someone who sacrificed to sleep. I enjoy sleep, sleep,
Speaker 1: and I haven't been able to I haven't really been
Speaker 1: able to sleep because of this one supplement.
Speaker 2: That anything to do with that. Also jet lag in
Speaker 2: the time difference.
Speaker 1: I think there's a bit of that, But I've been
Speaker 1: here for like thirty days now, so I'm like it
Speaker 1: should have gone and after a week or two. But
Speaker 1: I agree with you, coming from la to London is
Speaker 1: the harshest jet lag, right because I.
Speaker 2: Go from sleeping and I really get used to it.
Speaker 1: Oh it's really rough, and so it could be that.
Speaker 1: But I feel like, yeah.
Speaker 2: Sleep is so rarely I think that I'm saying rarely
Speaker 2: talk about We probably talk about it more now than
Speaker 2: we ever have in the last forty years. But like,
Speaker 2: sleep is this extraordinary gift and I think I'm probably
Speaker 2: more aware of it now because I've got a twelve
Speaker 2: year old who is who seems to think that sleep
Speaker 2: is some sort of punishment, you know what I mean,
Speaker 2: Like he's sleepers, Like why would you do this to me?
Speaker 2: And like, dude, I don't want to be awake right now,
Speaker 2: you know, And it's only like in in Alan Debotton's
Speaker 2: new book, Please, which I just bought for you as
Speaker 2: a gift. I think it's called a Therapeutic Journey. A
Speaker 2: therapeutic Journey which I bought for you, is that I
Speaker 2: don't know if you want to plug other people's books. No, please, No,
Speaker 2: I'm not as good as How to Live Like a.
Speaker 1: Man and a School of Life. I'm a big fan
Speaker 1: Genius's genius, very big fans.
Speaker 2: He's got a section in that book where he talks
Speaker 2: about sleep, and he says, when you've got a newborn baby,
Speaker 2: when you've got a newborn baby, you are very Your
Speaker 2: only intention is to put this child into a routine
Speaker 2: and make sure that they sleep at the right time
Speaker 2: for the right amount of times. Therefore, you feed it
Speaker 2: the right food to make sure it's the you know,
Speaker 2: the right We have to because if you don't get
Speaker 2: the right sleep, they are going to be awful tomorrow.
Speaker 2: And then at some point we just decide, well, I
Speaker 2: don't need to do that. That's only for a baby.
Speaker 2: I can sit with my phone at midnight just looking
Speaker 2: a stream of thirty second videos to then character to
Speaker 2: not sleep and imagine that I'm going to be okay tomorrow.
Speaker 2: And I find that that sleep is just like this gift,
Speaker 2: and that the better sleep I have that with out question,
Speaker 2: in every facet of my in every facet of my life,
Speaker 2: I'm better. Yeah, Like I'm really thinking about you don't drink?
Speaker 1: Right? No? No, no?
Speaker 2: How went? How long have you not drunk?
Speaker 1: I would say, how old? Am I like? Maybe eighteen
Speaker 1: years or right?
Speaker 2: But did you ever were you did? Right? Okay? Not?
Speaker 1: I was never in a car by. I drank socially,
Speaker 1: enjoyed it, had fun, love drinking games. I used to
Speaker 1: hang out with the lads and like you.
Speaker 2: About where I am so I really really I I'm
Speaker 2: very ready drink at home. I never really get in
Speaker 2: and go I'm going to have a glass of wine
Speaker 2: or a gin and tonic. But if I go out, yes,
Speaker 2: and if I'm out, I'm like, I love the feeling
Speaker 2: of being three and a half drinks in between three
Speaker 2: and six. I am. Look at Roger's face, he knows
Speaker 2: what I'm talking about. I am. I'm feeling my knees
Speaker 2: and I love it right, And now as I've got older,
Speaker 2: I'm just really am really I'm going to really try
Speaker 2: to just stop doing that. Like with no great declaration.
Speaker 2: You know, you know, I am saying, I just am
Speaker 2: really really going to try not to do that. Because
Speaker 2: my friend, a good friend of mine, my friend jezz I,
Speaker 2: spoke to him about it, and I was like, how
Speaker 2: did you just manage to just did you just stop
Speaker 2: doing this? And he said something to me, and I
Speaker 2: think you'll really like this, he said. He said, I
Speaker 2: started asking myself, and I do think this changes post
Speaker 2: probably like thirty seven thirty eight. It starts to change
Speaker 2: in your body. And he said, I started to ask myself,
Speaker 2: how how much of tomorrow do I want to borrow?
Speaker 2: All I'm doing now by drinking is borrowing from tomorrow.
Speaker 1: Wow.
Speaker 2: Right, It's like it's like you're going to a cash point.
Speaker 2: You're going to a cash point and you're going, I'm
Speaker 2: going to withdraw three hours from tomorrow that I will
Speaker 2: be useless. And then probably if I just borrow three
Speaker 2: hours around about noon or one, I'll start to feel okay.
Speaker 2: So I'm borrowing from tomorrow and that and how many
Speaker 2: hours do you want to borrow? And sometimes you borrow
Speaker 2: a day and then the only way you think you
Speaker 2: can rescue that day is to go, let's have another one,
Speaker 2: you know, And I thought that was a really amazing
Speaker 2: way of looking at it. And so my intention is
Speaker 2: to really try and and not do that. I just
Speaker 2: want to try, try and just be healthier. I don't
Speaker 2: even sort of think about weight loss anymore. I've done
Speaker 2: that so many times in my life, just made so
Speaker 2: many like decisions just right, this is it. I'm not
Speaker 2: going to go and what wy don't you change that
Speaker 2: acts that isn't working. Why don't you just only try
Speaker 2: and do what is healthy and see how that impacts
Speaker 2: your frame?
Speaker 1: Yes, you know, yeah, yeah, yeah, no, I like that approach.
Speaker 1: I mean, you know, I think it's natural when when
Speaker 1: we're recording this, it's like New Year's resolutions and start
Speaker 1: of the year and all that kind of stuff. And
Speaker 1: I think all of us know that about eighty percent
Speaker 1: of us drop off by the end of January. By February,
Speaker 1: we're not practicing this New Year's resolution, this massive commitment
Speaker 1: we made. And it's almost because we go from this
Speaker 1: huge extreme from being indulgent in December to trying to
Speaker 1: be hyper intentional in January. Yeah, and trying to go
Speaker 1: from one extreme to the other, and none of us
Speaker 1: can hack that it doesn't work well.
Speaker 2: A friend of mine said a really good thing to me.
Speaker 2: My friend Simon said to me, he said, you need
Speaker 2: to stop going on a diet because my weight has
Speaker 2: gone up and down. You know I can I can
Speaker 2: see it in too many videos on YouTube where I
Speaker 2: was up, where I was down. I used to have
Speaker 2: like three sets of suits. Lauren Shapiro, who was our
Speaker 2: wardrobe designer on the show Who I Am Now saying,
Speaker 2: as I said it out loud, I would have hated
Speaker 2: hearing her name on your podcast, and my time with
Speaker 2: her I used to just love so much because, like
Speaker 2: I said, so much of the day would be a
Speaker 2: lot of people, and then it would just be me
Speaker 2: and her choosing suits and choosing what I'm going to wear,
Speaker 2: and we'd chat about the day, and you know, we've
Speaker 2: had moments where we cracking up laughing with other days
Speaker 2: where one of us is really down, and it would
Speaker 2: just be this little precious moment in this very small
Speaker 2: walk in closet that was off my office where all
Speaker 2: the suits were, and my time with those are the
Speaker 2: things I really miss. That's the stuff I really really miss.
Speaker 2: And she very very subtly, and we never talked about it.
Speaker 2: We never ever talked about it, but I knew what
Speaker 2: she did, and I was grateful. Was she basically started
Speaker 2: organized in my suits into like really fat, fat and
Speaker 2: always looking good. You could see and she would just
Speaker 2: you know, but she would just very very in the
Speaker 2: in the just and I would go. And then we
Speaker 2: just became a thing where I'd be like, I think
Speaker 2: we're you know, particularly if we came off a hiatus
Speaker 2: or a go away and I think we're going to
Speaker 2: be and she'd like, and we'd never really speak about
Speaker 2: my friend. My friend said, my friend Simon said, you
Speaker 2: need to stop going on a diet. So what do
Speaker 2: you mean? Said You've got to stop. You've got to
Speaker 2: stop going on a diet. He said, because going on
Speaker 2: a diet is like going on a holiday. You are
Speaker 2: going to return, You're going to come back. Wow, he said.
Speaker 2: If you go on a diet, what you're saying is
Speaker 2: this is short term. He said, you need to just
Speaker 2: go this is how I live now, and this is it.
Speaker 2: That's not going. I don't eat any bread. You know,
Speaker 2: in moderation, it be probably good for you to eat
Speaker 2: certain types of bread, but that's it, and you're going
Speaker 2: to don't just stop this thing of being like, oh, guys,
Speaker 2: I'm not I'm on a diet. Ye, And he was like,
Speaker 2: and stop broadcasting saying it, Just stop saying it. Just
Speaker 2: go this is what I'm going to do, and to
Speaker 2: try and exercise like this. I'm going to try and
Speaker 2: walk like I'm trying to do and just be like no, no,
Speaker 2: I'm gonna I'm going to eat this, And don't don't
Speaker 2: be like, well I want to be down twenty pounds
Speaker 2: in thirty five days, Like because you've done that and
Speaker 2: you know how that plays out. Don't go on something
Speaker 2: that's changed. Something that's good.
Speaker 1: I like that. Yeah, on a diet, on a holiday,
Speaker 1: that's good. That's strong. You've got some wise friends, James.
Speaker 2: I do.
Speaker 1: There's a lot of good there's a lot of great
Speaker 1: advice and these and these friends for like life for
Speaker 1: these friends.
Speaker 2: Recently time and I've known probably but yeah, probably about
Speaker 2: nine nine years. And I have yeah, I have like
Speaker 2: friends I've known for thirty five.
Speaker 1: Years, you know what I mean, Like, what's it taking
Speaker 1: to keep those? Because I find like I've been talking
Speaker 1: to a lot of my male friends about this recently,
Speaker 1: and this idea of you know, do we have Do
Speaker 1: you have a friend that you could call in the
Speaker 1: middle of the night and you know they would pick up,
Speaker 1: they would turn up, they would be there, Because if
Speaker 1: you have one of those friends, that's pretty rare and
Speaker 1: pretty incredible. Especially as men, I find sometimes it's it's
Speaker 1: almost harder to have those vulnerable relationships. But you seem
Speaker 1: to be having a lot of open, vulnerable, healthy conversations
Speaker 1: with men in your life.
Speaker 2: But I think it's easier now. I think it's easier
Speaker 2: now than it used to be. I think I hope
Speaker 2: we're going to move into a generation of men, and
Speaker 2: I think you and your show is responsible for that.
Speaker 2: I think lots of I think just the ability to
Speaker 2: just be like I'm struggling is a thing which I
Speaker 2: think for a very long time men were conditioned to
Speaker 2: that that was weak, and actually it's almost certainly the
Speaker 2: bravest thing you can do. It is it is a
Speaker 2: tremendous act of bravery to say I'm not doing too
Speaker 2: great at than And as soon as those words leave
Speaker 2: your mouth, I reckon twenty percent of those things have gone.
Speaker 2: And I'm very I'm very, very fortunate. I just have
Speaker 2: a lot of I love a lot of friends that
Speaker 2: I've known for a very long time, and I and
Speaker 2: I love them, and I tell them I love them
Speaker 2: and I I and I enjoy the company of people
Speaker 2: so much, you know, I just you know, it's interesting
Speaker 2: you talk about who would call it like my friend
Speaker 2: Louis that I was just telling you about who we
Speaker 2: wrote that script together. Louis had a previous life where
Speaker 2: he used to he would go out sometimes for three days.
Speaker 2: I don't think he'd mind me saying this. He'd go
Speaker 2: out for days on end. And I always always. And
Speaker 2: then I said to Jules when we met, I said,
Speaker 2: just so you know, I've got this friend Louis, and
Speaker 2: he goes out for a long time, like you know
Speaker 2: what London was like in those times, in these very streets. Yes,
Speaker 2: And I said, if he calls me, I always, but
Speaker 2: I have to pick up, always pick up, because I
Speaker 2: always used to think he might be in trouble. This
Speaker 2: resulted in some of the funniest things I've ever heard.
Speaker 2: Him calling me at two, three, four, five in the
Speaker 2: morning resulted in some of the funniest things I've ever heard.
Speaker 2: And so that's why I say to anybody who doesn't
Speaker 2: pick up the phone to a friend in the night.
Speaker 2: It might not always be bad. It might be said.
Speaker 2: He called me once, I think it's okay to tell
Speaker 2: you this. He called me once and I was half
Speaker 2: three in the morning, same man, okay, and he went,
Speaker 2: I'm and he's drunk, and heone, I'm going to tell
Speaker 2: you something now. And it's a fact. I went, what
Speaker 2: he went, it's a fact. I went, sorry, you went.
Speaker 2: What I am about to tell you is a fact.
Speaker 2: It is a fact of life, and I would like
Speaker 2: to share it with you. Okay, this quarter four And
Speaker 2: he's like, it is a fact, James that I have
Speaker 2: never and will never see the Jersey Boys goodbye and
Speaker 2: hung up. And so yeah, I don't know. I don't
Speaker 2: think for a friendship is I think it's something. It's
Speaker 2: sort of everything, isn't. He like it's it's I cherish
Speaker 2: it so much. I also think, you know, with kids,
Speaker 2: it's really important for them to see you with friends, Yes,
Speaker 2: to not separate those things, to be to involve your
Speaker 2: friends with your children and your children with your friends.
Speaker 2: Because I'm really aware that, Like my son's twelve, and
Speaker 2: like he's right now, like we just get on great,
Speaker 2: We get on so well, So we get on so
Speaker 2: well's I love It's beautiful, and I'm so aware that
Speaker 2: that is about to change, because that is just nature.
Speaker 2: You know. I took about a year ago, before we
Speaker 2: moved before we move back, I took my son. I
Speaker 2: can't even remember what happened. He was kind of strappy
Speaker 2: and you know, stomped upstairs. He's really not that kind
Speaker 2: of boy, but he did. And I went upstairs and
Speaker 2: I sat in his room and I just went to him.
Speaker 2: I said, can I ask you some questions? And he
Speaker 2: was quite taken aback because because he thought I was
Speaker 2: going to go what was that about? And can I
Speaker 2: ask you some questions? And he went yeah. I said,
Speaker 2: do you think I love you? And he went yeah.
Speaker 2: I said, do you think I would ever do anything
Speaker 2: to intentionally hurt or upset you? He said no. I said,
Speaker 2: and do you think in the eleven years that you've
Speaker 2: been on Earth, do you think I've changed dramatically? He
Speaker 2: went no. I went, well done, he scored one hundred percent.
Speaker 2: They are all the right answers, I said, And I'm
Speaker 2: telling you this because over the next few years, there
Speaker 2: are going to be points you are going to think
Speaker 2: I don't love you. You are going to think I
Speaker 2: am intentionally trying to hurt or upset you, and you're
Speaker 2: going to think that I've changed. And I need you
Speaker 2: to remember this, that I haven't changed. We haven't changed.
Speaker 2: You've changed, and you need to and you have to,
Speaker 2: and you are going to go through immeasurable changes in
Speaker 2: your life and body and all we are trying to
Speaker 2: do me, your mum, your sisters, and it's going to
Speaker 2: happen to them too. Are just trying to help you
Speaker 2: navigate these bumps that are going to come your way
Speaker 2: and these changes both mental and physical that are happening
Speaker 2: for you. But I need you to know that I
Speaker 2: haven't changed. I'm never trying to intentionally hurt or upset you.
Speaker 2: And I love you. I love you more than you'll
Speaker 2: ever know. And he went, I think we should have
Speaker 2: some sort of code word so I remember this, And
Speaker 2: so we came up with some silly code word that
Speaker 2: I would just say to him, like do you remember,
Speaker 2: and he'd like and he'd be like, oh, yeah, you
Speaker 2: haven't changed. I was like, my hair hasn't changed, dude.
Speaker 2: I got the same hairstyle that I had when I
Speaker 2: was eighteen years old, you know, and that was and
Speaker 2: I refeel that with friendship that they I'm so painfully,
Speaker 2: painfully aware that there's going to come a point where
Speaker 2: the influences that aren't me are going to become bigger
Speaker 2: on my children for a moment. And so if I
Speaker 2: can make sure that those other people that they look
Speaker 2: to are people who are aligned with how I feel,
Speaker 2: then it's going to be great, you know.
Speaker 1: And sometimes they're going to take advice from dad's friend
Speaker 1: more than they are from Dad, if.
Speaker 2: They are going to seek it. Yeah, they're going to
Speaker 2: absolutely seek those other role models, Yes, particularly boys. I
Speaker 2: think that's right. Is that right? I think that's right. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 2: I don't know if that's completely right, but I do
Speaker 2: think that there is a perhaps more of a thing
Speaker 2: between boys and dads, and you know, it's it's such
Speaker 2: a strange thing that it's so you.
Speaker 1: Know, yeah, I remember, so you would have know this
Speaker 1: because we didn't know each other then, but became friendly
Speaker 1: with James Longman on your team years ago and so
Speaker 1: long as it invited me to come and watch the show.
Speaker 1: This is when I first moved to la when I
Speaker 1: first moved there, So this is like five years ago,
Speaker 1: and yeah, and I got to come and he was
Speaker 1: he was He's wonderful, obviously great and so he showed
Speaker 1: me around. I got to see all the rooms and
Speaker 1: like you know that, the green rooms and every like.
Speaker 2: He was.
Speaker 1: He just gave me the best tour ever. Took me
Speaker 1: to the photo wall. I got to put up a
Speaker 1: fake photo of myself on the wall as if we've
Speaker 1: been on the show, you know, all all of it
Speaker 1: was really sweet. And we didn't know each other at
Speaker 1: all then, of course, and I didn't know anyone else
Speaker 1: apart from him, and I was just really excited to
Speaker 1: be there because I was such a fan of the
Speaker 1: show and I remember you were. You were so wonderful,
Speaker 1: even if between the show where you're in between segments
Speaker 1: like it's not live, and you would come and chat
Speaker 1: to the audience. You'd shake people's hands, and then I
Speaker 1: remember you'd go and call your kids and you'd literally
Speaker 1: sit at the desk before in between and just like
Speaker 1: get that because and you tell us you'd be like, guys,
Speaker 1: I'm just gonna call my family because I'm gonna say
Speaker 1: good night to my kids. And it was such a
Speaker 1: like it was so amazing to see someone who's in
Speaker 1: the middle of everything you described so phenomenally earlier. But
Speaker 1: then be like, I just want to say good night
Speaker 1: to my kids because it's that late, right, however late
Speaker 1: it was at that time. I think kids were going
Speaker 1: back to bed at seven or seven or whatever may
Speaker 1: have been, and I remember you facetiming them and then
Speaker 1: we got to wave it, and I just remember how
Speaker 1: special that was. And I just think, you know, I've
Speaker 1: heard you say before that you know, for so many
Speaker 1: years your your family was marching to the beat of
Speaker 1: your drum like they were. They were therefore, they were
Speaker 1: just holding it together for you so that you could
Speaker 1: build and create. And I just think about moments like
Speaker 1: that that you were having with.
Speaker 2: Them and media. I'm so worried that the show you
Speaker 2: came to is terrible. That's all I can think.
Speaker 1: Is good Ruffalo. It is great. It's great, it's great.
Speaker 2: But like, that's that's really what really resulted in us
Speaker 2: moving back, is the truth is, you know, like my
Speaker 2: wife just walks to the beat of my drum, my family.
Speaker 2: You know, we're going to New York, We're going to
Speaker 2: LA I'm going here, I'm going there. Babe, I'm going
Speaker 2: to do this thing in Australia. You're you're good here
Speaker 2: with the kit, do you know what I mean? Like, honestly,
Speaker 2: I genuinely feel I get the feeling that you might
Speaker 2: be like this. I feel like I could live anywhere anywhere.
Speaker 2: I could live anywhere, because we're very fortunate that you're
Speaker 2: here now in London. You're going to go back, You're
Speaker 2: going to go to India, you're gonna go to New York,
Speaker 2: You're to LA Like, what a privilege. I'm so aware
Speaker 2: that that hasn't been my wife's life for the last
Speaker 2: twelve years, thirteen fourteen years, you know, And so really
Speaker 2: our our decision to move back was like I was
Speaker 2: going to stop the show regardless. You know, there was
Speaker 2: a there was a moment where I was going to
Speaker 2: stop it a bit earlier, and then it was done
Speaker 2: so beautifully. My leaving of the show, like me and
Speaker 2: my boss George just sat in my office and literally
Speaker 2: talked it out like this, no agents, no lawyers, no nothing,
Speaker 2: Like I said, I'd like to leave it this date.
Speaker 2: He said, is it any way I can get you
Speaker 2: to stay to this day? It's like I can't stay
Speaker 2: to that date because we've got to resettle, the kids
Speaker 2: have got like they have to start school in September,
Speaker 2: you know. And then at one point it was going
Speaker 2: to be May, and then there was like I think
Speaker 2: there's golf and masters and all this, and we literally
Speaker 2: just were like, okay, we'll end it then and that
Speaker 2: will give us the right gap. And all of that
Speaker 2: came from me just saying to Jeles like, I'll live
Speaker 2: anywhere where, where, Where do you want to be? Where
Speaker 2: do you think it's best for us to be, because
Speaker 2: I know she would never make a decision that isn't
Speaker 2: best for the kids, forget me, and she was just like,
Speaker 2: I think it's time to go home. I was like, Okay,
Speaker 2: that's it, and I'm so I'm so grateful that we
Speaker 2: that we did. Just in my family before Christmas, we
Speaker 2: had a My mum sings in a choir. It's not
Speaker 2: a church choir, it's just a choir with some of
Speaker 2: her friends and we all went out to high Wickham
Speaker 2: to watch her sing in this choir. I sat in
Speaker 2: this room in a in john Hamden sports hall or there,
Speaker 2: you know theater, just a a school hall that we
Speaker 2: were in. I cried my eyes out. I cried. I
Speaker 2: couldn't stop crying because I'm my mum. I was in
Speaker 2: this choir with like forty other people singing Christmas songs,
Speaker 2: and it was so pure. It was so pure, it
Speaker 2: was so the antithesis of what our life of being
Speaker 2: in Los Angeles. And my mum was in the corner
Speaker 2: of this glad, you know, and I just she couldn't
Speaker 2: stop smiling. And I just thought, Oh my god, this
Speaker 2: purity that's here. These are a group of women and
Speaker 2: men in there. I guess they range between thirty to
Speaker 2: sixty people, and I just was like, this is everything.
Speaker 2: I don't want to be anywhere else. This is I
Speaker 2: only want to be here. And it was so weird.
Speaker 2: It's so weird the effect it has on me even
Speaker 2: now saying I can't understan and it. I can't tell
Speaker 2: you why. I think it just felt in that minute like, Oh,
Speaker 2: this is the sacrip, this is why we made what
Speaker 2: you would perceive to be a great sacrifice. Yes, this
Speaker 2: is the reason something here that I would never see,
Speaker 2: I would never come back for, I would never be
Speaker 2: part of. And then my dad joined them with a
Speaker 2: few numbers playing the saxophone and I just I just
Speaker 2: was like, oh my god, this is worth everything. This
Speaker 2: is this is this is everything I need to feed
Speaker 2: me and my kids watching their grandma sing this song,
Speaker 2: I was like, how lucky are we to appreciate and
Speaker 2: have this experience? Yeah, to have come back and everyone
Speaker 2: be healthy? You know?
Speaker 1: Yeah, for sure? What does it take in that in
Speaker 1: the marriage, for that communication, for that even the fact
Speaker 1: that you know you're both asking each other questions, you're
Speaker 1: both checking in with each other, Like, that's not easy,
Speaker 1: it's challenging. Yeah, Like what is that? What has that taken,
Speaker 1: like from both of you to really be able to
Speaker 1: make those big decisions together.
Speaker 2: It's taken me learning from my wife. That's it. That's it.
Speaker 2: Like she, I think has always known and always figured
Speaker 2: out how to communicate how to do this, And I
Speaker 2: think I've been terrible at it. I think I've been
Speaker 2: rubbish at it because I think I lived for a
Speaker 2: very long time an existence of just I nothing will
Speaker 2: move me from this train. I'm on this is it.
Speaker 2: Oh you're hopping on great, but this is this is
Speaker 2: it's this is the thing. And actually you then realize
Speaker 2: that that isn't the case. I mean we don't argue
Speaker 2: very much. We really really try to talk in the
Speaker 2: day right to not make it the last thing we do,
Speaker 2: even if you are going to bed with like and
Speaker 2: it's more her than me, and she's like, well, I'm
Speaker 2: going to talk to you about that tomorrow, you know
Speaker 2: what I mean. But it's so much better than going
Speaker 2: to bed, going to sleep. Just don't go to sleep
Speaker 2: on an argument. That's the first thing. And I think
Speaker 2: I learned quite probably halfway through our marriage that that actually,
Speaker 2: if all you're doing and this is this is an
Speaker 2: almost impossible thing to do. But if you're but if
Speaker 2: you're at least trying to, you're pretty much there is
Speaker 2: if you're going well, if if all you're trying to
Speaker 2: do is meet your partner's needs, then all yours in
Speaker 2: turn will be met. They just will like how many
Speaker 2: times do we hear it's funny we had a friend
Speaker 2: of ours or a friend of my wife's. They're friends
Speaker 2: of ours. You know, if we ever broke up, she'd
Speaker 2: get her. Now you've got me thinking about friend, Oh,
Speaker 2: divide it up a fun game and going to take
Speaker 2: what's quite a fun game. And she was saying, this
Speaker 2: is a few years ago now, She was like, he
Speaker 2: just never does anything for me. I never. He never
Speaker 2: surprises me and takes me out for dinner. He never
Speaker 2: says ah like, oh I'm good, you know, buy the
Speaker 2: theater ticket. He never says, oh, Friday night, me and you,
Speaker 2: let's do this. And I just went, well, when do
Speaker 2: you do it? How often do you do that? She went,
Speaker 2: what I don't. And I was like, right, well, you
Speaker 2: have to see that that might be a that that
Speaker 2: might be a thing. For all we know. He sat
Speaker 2: somewhere now going she never takes me out? She never,
Speaker 2: because let's go the cinema. And she was like, and
Speaker 2: that's it in its most base level. I think that's
Speaker 2: probably the thing I've learned the most.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I love hearing about your relationships and the way
Speaker 1: you talk about your relationships. Obviously, this whole shift in
Speaker 1: your life is because of your relationships, and so it's
Speaker 1: so wonderful to hear about it. And you were giving
Speaker 1: me credit earlier for you know, hopefully changing conversations around masculinity.
Speaker 1: But I think you did that very much so as
Speaker 1: well with your bromance comic relief videos with David Beckham,
Speaker 1: and I'd always appreciate those when they came out. I know,
Speaker 1: you guys have a real romance, but seeing it on
Speaker 1: screen was always a real treat. Whether you're doing the
Speaker 1: Calvin kleinads together or whether you know or doing each
Speaker 1: other's nails or whatever it was, it was. It was
Speaker 1: so funny. And you went to the premiere recently of
Speaker 1: his documentary, which I thought was just, yeah, brilliant, phenomenal.
Speaker 1: I read Bex's biography when autobiography when I was like
Speaker 1: fifteen or something, and it was life changing. I loved it,
Speaker 1: and getting to what's the doc was obviously reliving it again.
Speaker 2: I mean, what a story?
Speaker 1: What a story?
Speaker 2: Right? This is the whole thing. When I watched it,
Speaker 2: it really really reminded me. Have you ever watched Aaron
Speaker 2: Sorkin's commencement speech at Syracuse University? I have not known,
Speaker 2: so actually me saying, you know, when I get my
Speaker 2: driver's license, my life will be like this. He actually
Speaker 2: says that in that speech. He talks about that, and
Speaker 2: I think, and that was the first time I realized that, like, oh,
Speaker 2: that's what I have always done. His commencement speech at
Speaker 2: Syracuse University is brilliant as you can imagine. It's just
Speaker 2: so brilliantly written and he delivers it. It's exceptional. It's
Speaker 2: my favorite thing to watch on YouTube is people's commencement addresses,
Speaker 2: and his is particularly good. And I would urge anybody
Speaker 2: to go and to go and look at it. I
Speaker 2: use it, I quote it. It's fed into me, you know.
Speaker 2: And he says a brilliant line and it really came
Speaker 2: to the forefront of my mind watching the Beckham documentary
Speaker 2: where he says, the world doesn't care how many times
Speaker 2: you get knocked down, so long as it's one less
Speaker 2: than the amount of times you get back up again.
Speaker 2: And that's what I think the Beckham Dock is. It
Speaker 2: is a story of a man who just doesn't stop.
Speaker 2: He just gets back up and he carries on. And
Speaker 2: that's what it's about. You could say it's about the
Speaker 2: first sportsman to become a global brand and icon. You
Speaker 2: could talk about it's the first family to have become,
Speaker 2: perhaps in Britain outside of the Royal family, a family
Speaker 2: of intrigue and interest. You could say it's a story
Speaker 2: about fame and sport. It's not. I think it's a
Speaker 2: story of someone who just kept going through adversity, through challenges,
Speaker 2: just got up and carried on. And that's why I
Speaker 2: think it's resonated so much with people, because it's interesting.
Speaker 2: I don't know if you found this, but like it's
Speaker 2: interesting being British and watching it. Yes, yes, then because
Speaker 2: because people in America are.
Speaker 1: Like, I had no no idea.
Speaker 2: Oh my god, those football those soccer fans, the way
Speaker 2: they were with him, and you're like, yeah, no, I know,
Speaker 2: I remember the yeah, yeah, you know. And then and
Speaker 2: then Greece and that like that's where sport tho can
Speaker 2: transcend everything. It's like, it's it's why I think sport
Speaker 2: and music. I think sports stars and musicians are I
Speaker 2: think their fame is so different to actors and performers
Speaker 2: and hosts and writers, and I think their fame is
Speaker 2: something different because they give you moments. They give you
Speaker 2: moments in the and really what I put those moments
Speaker 2: down to is they made you feel less alone. That's
Speaker 2: actually what it is. It's why our relationship with singers
Speaker 2: and art and recording artists is so personal. Because I
Speaker 2: was in this play called The History Boys and it's
Speaker 2: written by Alan Bennett, and there was a speech that
Speaker 2: Richard Griffiths used to deliver every night, and he'd say
Speaker 2: the best moments in poetry are when you think a
Speaker 2: thought or a feeling is particular to you, and then
Speaker 2: suddenly someone who is long dead you will never meet. Now,
Speaker 2: someone who you will never meet, perhaps even long dead,
Speaker 2: has written down the very thing you're feeling. And it's
Speaker 2: like a hand has reached out and taken yours and
Speaker 2: it says to you, you're not on your own. You're
Speaker 2: not on your own. That's a great bit in a
Speaker 2: John Lennon documentary where there's a guy saying to you
Speaker 2: on Lennon, that song you wrote, but you know that
Speaker 2: that was about me. It's about me, thats how I am.
Speaker 2: And John Lennon's going, they're just songs. They're just songs.
Speaker 2: It isn't that And he's going, nobody is you wrote
Speaker 2: that about me? Because you can't know how I felt,
Speaker 2: And so I think you don't. Suddenly you feel very alone.
Speaker 2: You hear something and you realize you're not. And then
Speaker 2: I think sport when David Beckham curlled that free kick
Speaker 2: in the top corner, which when we qualified for the
Speaker 2: World Cup, it did not matter Tory, conservative, Republican, Democrat,
Speaker 2: left right, all the stuff the divisions everything suddenly yeah,
Speaker 2: and you're hugging people you don't know, you've never met,
Speaker 2: and you're you're brought together and you're not alone anymore.
Speaker 2: And that's where I think sport and music is such
Speaker 2: a powerful thing in our lives, which you don't feel
Speaker 2: when you watch a film. You can watch a film
Speaker 2: or a TV show and go, oh, yeah, that's good.
Speaker 2: That was amazing. Even if it moved you hugely, that
Speaker 2: connection isn't the same.
Speaker 1: I don't think that's why you gave him an ugly
Speaker 1: statue of himself. Oh my god, I've watched that a
Speaker 1: million times that day.
Speaker 2: Man, that was so much fun. That was just, you know,
Speaker 2: because pranks they're the worst thing to film. They're awful
Speaker 2: because they could just go wrong at any point. They
Speaker 2: could go wrong one notice of a camera and hundreds
Speaker 2: of thousands of dollars and my got that day just
Speaker 2: worked out in the best way. It was.
Speaker 1: It's so good. If anyone's not seen it, it's so good.
Speaker 1: If you watch The Dog and you love Dabbie Beckham
Speaker 1: and you love what James does, you have to go
Speaker 1: and see it. It's just you made the ugliest statue
Speaker 1: I had the idea one of the best looking men.
Speaker 2: I had the idea because do you remember the real
Speaker 2: Ronaldo one? Yeah? Remember that? So then it was like
Speaker 2: I remember going into it, going into Ben's office and
Speaker 2: going because I think if if they hadn't done that
Speaker 2: with Ronaldo in real life, I don't think David would
Speaker 2: have believed it right right, Yeah, But it was because
Speaker 2: it happened in real life with Cristiano Ronaldo that we
Speaker 2: were like, oh, hang on, we could do this, and
Speaker 2: I never thought it would work as well as it did. Yeah,
Speaker 2: and credit I have to say to the to the
Speaker 2: actors in that sketch, I mean just just brilliant.
Speaker 1: Perfect, Yeah, Manchester City, brilliant, amazing, it's amazing. Walk me
Speaker 1: through that what you just said. Now that you're in
Speaker 1: that space six months, you're reflecting, figuring it out. We're
Speaker 1: waiting for that next balloon. We've let the other balloon go.
Speaker 1: What does James Corden's creative process stillness, waiting for the idea,
Speaker 1: building an idea look like? What does that look like?
Speaker 1: Where does that Where does inspiration strike? Where does it
Speaker 1: come from? Where do you seek it? When you've let
Speaker 1: go of something without knowing what's next.
Speaker 2: What I'm really trying to do now is not rush anything.
Speaker 2: I spent a long time squeezing so many things in
Speaker 2: that Actually now I just sort of think, well, don't
Speaker 2: force an idea to be whatever it is that you
Speaker 2: might you know, write or do or But then at
Speaker 2: the same time, I think what I have to really
Speaker 2: be conscious of now is to not be too afraid,
Speaker 2: to not be too scared to do anything, because I
Speaker 2: think I've been so enjoying this feeling of not being
Speaker 2: on TV every day and putting out content on whether
Speaker 2: it's you you, you know, social but I'm so aware of
Speaker 2: how much was just being pushed out all the time,
Speaker 2: and that can come with so much stuff. Totally, it's
Speaker 2: good to sit and work, but then don't be scared
Speaker 2: to do it. Don't be scared of the failure of it.
Speaker 2: I've only took a screen grab. I think it's the
Speaker 2: guy who's the new CEO of Van's Shoes. I think
Speaker 2: we used to work at Logitech and it says here,
Speaker 2: I've just got the screen grab which ran for a decade,
Speaker 2: which he ran for a decade, and he penned a
Speaker 2: doctor Seuse like poem titled the Secret of success, Oh sorry,
Speaker 2: the Secret to success. Avoid it. It reads in part,
Speaker 2: success makes you fearful of losing your place of gambling
Speaker 2: with stature of losing your face, and it is there
Speaker 2: is an element of that I feel of like, well,
Speaker 2: there's a very very very real answer that you do
Speaker 2: something and it's shit, you.
Speaker 1: Know, And all the greats have had that, They've all
Speaker 1: done that.
Speaker 2: Oh my god. But I think that's why I was
Speaker 2: so keen too, even in this period to make this,
Speaker 2: this podcast called This Life of Mine, to like go, well, no,
Speaker 2: I know, I know what this is like this this
Speaker 2: idea of this podcast is an idea I had when
Speaker 2: I was sixteen and I wrote it out. Wow, I
Speaker 2: wrote it out and it was called Planet Lovely. That's
Speaker 2: their name now it's called Planet Were Lovely because do
Speaker 2: you remember there used to be a TV show on
Speaker 2: TV on BBC two when we were growing up called
Speaker 2: Room one o one. Of course, so Room one oh
Speaker 2: one was a show where people would take things they
Speaker 2: hated in life and they would be they would put
Speaker 2: them into Room one o one and they'd be gone forever.
Speaker 2: It was a really funny show. It was a brilliant
Speaker 2: show and premise and I was like sixteen. I was like, well,
Speaker 2: this is great. Wouldn't it be brilliant to make a
Speaker 2: show which is just people talking about things that they
Speaker 2: love and things that are really significant in their life?
Speaker 2: And I wrote this like thing this planet Lovely, it's
Speaker 2: not called Planet Lovely anymore. The decision that that's it
Speaker 2: and not great, But I was like, why don't we
Speaker 2: just have people talk about things that are significant in
Speaker 2: their life, whether it's a film, a place, a person,
Speaker 2: a memory, a possession, a song, and the you know,
Speaker 2: I really really wanted to do it. So I was like,
Speaker 2: can I create something in a completely different medium that
Speaker 2: feels almost the antithesis of what the Lately show was?
Speaker 2: It's it's completely different. It's calm, and it's quiet and
Speaker 2: it's soft, and it's people talking about things that they
Speaker 2: love or that were moments in their life. And like,
Speaker 2: some of the stuff that we've heard has just been great.
Speaker 2: So I've really loved creativity. I'd love the creativity of
Speaker 2: just I don't you know, like we're going to put
Speaker 2: this on serious exam and hopefully people find it and
Speaker 2: hopefully it will be just a piece of joy. It'll
Speaker 2: be a warm hug on a Sunday afternoon, and that
Speaker 2: would be a lovely thing to put out into the world.
Speaker 2: But that's a sort of gestation period of thirty years.
Speaker 2: I don't think I should do that again. But I
Speaker 2: do think what I'd really love to do is try
Speaker 2: and write one more thing. I'd love to try and
Speaker 2: write one more thing. I'd love to write again with
Speaker 2: Ruth Jones, who I wrote Gavin and Stacey with. I
Speaker 2: love her so much. She is and has been a
Speaker 2: constant in my life as a friend. And you want
Speaker 2: to talk about a long friendship, you know, And so
Speaker 2: I'd love to try and write something else with her.
Speaker 2: I don't know what that'll be. I don't even know
Speaker 2: if we'll ever before do it. I don't know, but
Speaker 2: you know, we we do. We do have chats about
Speaker 2: maybe this is the thing, you know, so that that's
Speaker 2: what I'd really love to do. It's just if you
Speaker 2: listened to Bradley Cooper talk about making my well, he
Speaker 2: really just made a decision to give himself over entirely
Speaker 2: for three years to that project, to just go, well,
Speaker 2: what does it feel like actually to not move from
Speaker 2: one thing to the next, to be to hear they're
Speaker 2: doing this doing and what is it? What does it
Speaker 2: feel like to just give myself over in every way
Speaker 2: to the point where I imagine a lot of people
Speaker 2: around him on that set were earning more financially, but
Speaker 2: like as a as a as a challenge to give
Speaker 2: himself over to it in the most beautiful way. I
Speaker 2: think is it's so inspiring to watch. And I don't
Speaker 2: know if I've ever done that. I don't. I know
Speaker 2: I haven't done that. I never liked that on that level,
Speaker 2: But like, I don't think I've ever completely just given
Speaker 2: myself over to something and seen it through from inception
Speaker 2: to pushing it on the water and letting other people
Speaker 2: decide whether it's good or not and seeing who I
Speaker 2: am the other side of it. Like that's I think
Speaker 2: that would be a really good thing to do. Like
Speaker 2: I might go to I might go this. I just
Speaker 2: found this like seven weekend course at the Film School
Speaker 2: in Becconsfield or seven, I don't know how many days.
Speaker 2: I can't That might be wrong, but I like I think,
Speaker 2: oh maybe I'll maybe I'll do that. I wouldn't mind
Speaker 2: doing some acting classes. I didn't I just wouldn't mind
Speaker 2: just going, well, can I I wonder if there's one
Speaker 2: more thing, And if there isn't, how lucky was I?
Speaker 2: You know? But I really feel like I might be
Speaker 2: getting to a spot where I might have something to say.
Speaker 1: Yeah, James, you are. You're very unique and extremely extremely
Speaker 1: thoughtful and conscious and so honest and genuine. It's it's
Speaker 1: been such a treat talking to you, honestly, like genuinely
Speaker 1: just sitting with you, and I know that I'm listening
Speaker 1: to an actual stream of consciousness more than curated answers,
Speaker 1: and you know, it's it's really powerful. It's been really
Speaker 1: really special, and I want to thank you for giving
Speaker 1: me this space, holding this space and trusting you with it.
Speaker 2: I mean, it's a it's a real thrill to to
Speaker 2: sit and chat with you. It's it's it's it's it's great.
Speaker 2: It's it's a lovely thing you've created here. It's brilliant.
Speaker 2: It's really brilliant what you're doing. I'm so it's strange.
Speaker 2: I don't know if you feel this, but I feel
Speaker 2: like there's a strange thing with like Brits that go
Speaker 2: to America because it's only like there's only a handful
Speaker 2: of us who know how hard it is and how
Speaker 2: vast that is. So like when I look at when
Speaker 2: I look at your staff and I see the things
Speaker 2: that you're putting out, and like, I think, I walk
Speaker 2: past like a huge billboard of view the other week
Speaker 2: and I was like, and I don't know, we've never met,
Speaker 2: but we have friends in common. And I was like, yeah.
Speaker 2: I was like, gone, boy, yeah.
Speaker 1: When I get to work, Yeah, this is great. I
Speaker 1: was like, you're.
Speaker 2: From from green Wood Green. Yeah, You're from Wood Green.
Speaker 2: Look at him. I'm very proud of you, with no
Speaker 2: reason to be.
Speaker 1: No, mate, I appreciate it. And you know, offline today
Speaker 1: and online you've given me a lot of mentorship and
Speaker 1: coaching that I'll take on and i'll practice in my
Speaker 1: life if honestly, You've left me with some really thoughtful
Speaker 1: pieces of insight. But we end every show with the
Speaker 1: final five, and these are the fast five, which are
Speaker 1: answered in one word to one sentence maximum, of course,
Speaker 1: and so and I'll ruin that rule every time because
Speaker 1: you give such wonderful answers. But we'll try.
Speaker 2: We'll start absolutely, we'll start that.
Speaker 1: So, James, these are your fast five. First question is
Speaker 1: what is the best advice you've ever heard or received.
Speaker 2: To ask yourself, is this of my concern? Right? I'm
Speaker 2: gonna break it already, but I really think that phrase
Speaker 2: is one of the most important things you can hang
Speaker 2: on to, is to just go. There's a great power
Speaker 2: in being able to say that's none of my concern.
Speaker 2: It's more polite than saying I don't care. It's more
Speaker 2: truthful than saying it's nothing to do with me, because
Speaker 2: sometimes it will be to do with you. But is
Speaker 2: it of your concer Do you need to engage with it?
Speaker 2: You just go, I'm sorry, what was that someone say something?
Speaker 2: Think about it? Oh, that's none of my concern and
Speaker 2: carry on.
Speaker 1: I love that super powerful Okay. Question number two, what
Speaker 1: is the worst piece of advice you've ever heard or received?
Speaker 2: Oh? Jeez, oh god, it's weird, you know. I think
Speaker 2: just do it? Right? The Nike, the Nike if you're
Speaker 2: in America, and the Nike if you're in England Britain.
Speaker 2: The I think, just do it is a brilliant slogan, right.
Speaker 2: I think it's one of the most powerful slogans in
Speaker 2: the world. And what makes it so powerful is that
Speaker 2: is the full stop is the period just do it right,
Speaker 2: just do it great, but that can really have other connotations. Yeah,
Speaker 2: so I would say I would say, don't just do it.
Speaker 2: Ask whether you want to do it? Do you really
Speaker 2: want to do it? And then do it.
Speaker 1: I love how you just went up against the greatest
Speaker 1: slogan of all times.
Speaker 2: Do you think it's a masterpiece? I just sometimes think yeah,
Speaker 2: because it's like you know, I would say, like you know,
Speaker 2: Crystal Meth, don't just do it, don't just do it? Really,
Speaker 2: don't just do it? Yeah, I love it.
Speaker 1: Now the new one when we go walk about the
Speaker 1: next door in England, do you really want to do it?
Speaker 2: It's going to ask yourself seriously, do you really want
Speaker 2: to do it? And if the answer is yes, just as.
Speaker 1: I love it, I love it. I'm looking forward to
Speaker 1: seeing that billboard with you on.
Speaker 2: It's not as snappy. I don't know if it will
Speaker 2: really take off.
Speaker 1: Question number three, how would you define your current purpose?
Speaker 2: I think my current purpose is to let it be
Speaker 2: and accept whatever it is. And that's not work, that's life,
Speaker 2: accept all of it. Don't get caught up in what
Speaker 2: you thought something should be. Just to accept what it
Speaker 2: is and realize how incredibly amazing is to just be alive.
Speaker 1: It's brilliant. Question number four, what does it feel like
Speaker 1: when Tom Cruise says to you your life is more
Speaker 1: valuable than his?
Speaker 2: It feels like a lie? Ja, It's like, yeah, it
Speaker 2: feels like a lie. And I think I knew that
Speaker 2: at the time, but you believed it. He I mean, man,
Speaker 2: he could say anything, and I believe him, you know,
Speaker 2: anything at all? Like the guy is just exceptional. Oh
Speaker 2: my god, amazing.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Special fifth and final question, which we asked every
Speaker 1: guest has ever been on the show. If you could
Speaker 1: create one law everyone in the world had to follow,
Speaker 1: what would it be.
Speaker 2: I think the law should be for every minute you
Speaker 2: spend on social media, that when you come off the app,
Speaker 2: you're not allowed back on for that many minutes. So
Speaker 2: if you go on for an hour, you're locked out
Speaker 2: for an hour. If you're on for two minutes, you're
Speaker 2: locked out for two minutes. And I believe that should
Speaker 2: be the absolute law. I don't prescribe to this notion
Speaker 2: that these things should be banned. I think it's insane
Speaker 2: to think that. I just think that actually, we regulate
Speaker 2: the speed on the road, we regulate what age you
Speaker 2: are when you can vote, what age you are, when
Speaker 2: you can get married, have a child, do a degree,
Speaker 2: drink alcohol, all these things. And actually, I think one
Speaker 2: regulation would be that you know, you could expect if
Speaker 2: you need to spend seven hours on it. The second
Speaker 2: is dormant for a minute. You're locked out for seven hours.
Speaker 2: And I think people would be I think it would
Speaker 2: be great. I think it would be brilliant.
Speaker 1: That is genius. That's my that's my genius. We never
Speaker 1: had anything like that.
Speaker 2: I pitched it once to to I was at some
Speaker 2: conference thing, interviewing quite a prominent sort of Silicon Valley
Speaker 2: Ye you know, CEO, and I pitched this as an
Speaker 2: idea in the room, and it did not go down.
Speaker 2: They did not respond as well as you. That's why
Speaker 2: would we ever do that? Monetizing every all of their time?
Speaker 2: We want all of their time, James. We don't want
Speaker 2: some of their time. We want to steal it all.
Speaker 1: I'm the opposite. I'm thinking, how do we make that happen?
Speaker 2: Like what?
Speaker 1: That that's brilliant.
Speaker 2: I think it's a really interesting to play with.
Speaker 1: Because again, it's not I'm on a diet. I'm on
Speaker 1: a d top someone it's not you know, this is awful,
Speaker 1: this is you know on it for seven days, and.
Speaker 2: All of these things, all of these things social media,
Speaker 2: like you know, the way people the way that you know,
Speaker 2: the new thing where we talk about AI and it's like,
Speaker 2: of course it's terrifying, it's also going to be miraculous
Speaker 2: and brilliant. So nothing is nothing is all bad, nothing
Speaker 2: is all good, No one is all bad, no one
Speaker 2: is all good. It's impossible. But what you can do
Speaker 2: is regulate these things in a sense. And if that
Speaker 2: was just the we would all accept it. We'd all
Speaker 2: accept it. And I'm sure someone somewhere will find a
Speaker 2: hack that means you can't, but on the whole people
Speaker 2: would just go along with it, and they'd like, I
Speaker 2: can't open it. I'll open it in a minute, and
Speaker 2: then they would stop and look up and realize that actually,
Speaker 2: maybe maybe out here can nourish me more than it
Speaker 2: does in there. It's very hard to leave in there
Speaker 2: when it's always there.
Speaker 1: James, Your world class This Life of Mine is available
Speaker 1: right now wherever you listen. Two podcasts Serious right Yes,
Speaker 1: Serious ExM and So I hope you guys subscribe, Follow
Speaker 1: and look out for an episode. I'm going to get
Speaker 1: to jump on the podcast too, really really looking forward
Speaker 1: to that. Great and again, thank you so much, James.
Speaker 2: This is absolutely privilege.
Speaker 1: If you love this episode, you love my interview with
Speaker 1: Will Smith on owning your truth and unlocking the power
Speaker 1: of manifestation. Anybody who hasn't spoken to their parents or
Speaker 1: their brother, call them right now. Don't think you're going
Speaker 1: to have a chance to call them tomorrow or next week.
Speaker 1: That opportunity with my father changed every relationship in my life.