1 00:00:01,320 --> 00:00:04,280 Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff You Missed in History Class, a production 2 00:00:04,400 --> 00:00:14,640 Speaker 1: of iHeartRadio, Hello and Happy Friday. Am Holly Fry and 3 00:00:14,720 --> 00:00:15,440 Speaker 1: I'm Tracy V. 4 00:00:15,560 --> 00:00:15,960 Speaker 2: Wilson. 5 00:00:16,040 --> 00:00:19,079 Speaker 1: We talked about divorce ranches. I'm so glad you picked 6 00:00:19,079 --> 00:00:21,720 Speaker 1: this me too. I was for a while like, is 7 00:00:21,760 --> 00:00:23,000 Speaker 1: there enough information on this? 8 00:00:23,160 --> 00:00:24,239 Speaker 2: Yes? Their absolutely was. 9 00:00:25,480 --> 00:00:29,000 Speaker 1: I feel like I was thinking about it at one point, 10 00:00:29,080 --> 00:00:32,919 Speaker 1: and I could be totally making up. I think I 11 00:00:32,960 --> 00:00:37,720 Speaker 1: heard an episode of the podcast Criminal that was about 12 00:00:37,760 --> 00:00:41,239 Speaker 1: maybe a missing person's case connected to like the Nevada 13 00:00:41,280 --> 00:00:45,680 Speaker 1: divorce industry, and I really feel like I was listening 14 00:00:45,680 --> 00:00:50,440 Speaker 1: to this while walking on the beach at sunrise on 15 00:00:50,640 --> 00:00:53,159 Speaker 1: a day that I had to take my spouse to 16 00:00:53,320 --> 00:00:58,600 Speaker 1: the airport at a horrible hour of the morning because 17 00:00:59,480 --> 00:01:06,000 Speaker 1: he had planned ahead, and rather than our getting divorced, 18 00:01:06,480 --> 00:01:09,880 Speaker 1: I turned that into an opportunity to walk on the beach, 19 00:01:09,959 --> 00:01:12,880 Speaker 1: listening to podcasts and drinking coffee as the sun came up. 20 00:01:13,080 --> 00:01:13,399 Speaker 2: Nice. 21 00:01:13,640 --> 00:01:17,039 Speaker 1: That sounds delightful. I have so many thoughts about things 22 00:01:17,120 --> 00:01:17,720 Speaker 1: we touched on. 23 00:01:17,920 --> 00:01:18,520 Speaker 2: Okay, great. 24 00:01:19,000 --> 00:01:21,960 Speaker 1: First, I want to talk about Rhea Langham, who was 25 00:01:21,959 --> 00:01:23,000 Speaker 1: married to Clark Gable. 26 00:01:23,160 --> 00:01:23,479 Speaker 2: Okay. 27 00:01:24,160 --> 00:01:27,279 Speaker 1: On the one hand, she was a very wealthy woman 28 00:01:27,560 --> 00:01:31,200 Speaker 1: in her own right. She doesn't need my pity. But 29 00:01:31,319 --> 00:01:33,600 Speaker 1: on the other hand, I feel really bad for her 30 00:01:33,760 --> 00:01:37,560 Speaker 1: because the way that all shook out is she basically 31 00:01:37,680 --> 00:01:41,880 Speaker 1: took care of Clark Gable when he was nobody, and 32 00:01:41,920 --> 00:01:46,119 Speaker 1: then as he had his movie contract, and I think 33 00:01:46,120 --> 00:01:49,920 Speaker 1: it was MGM really pushed him into stardom. They made 34 00:01:49,920 --> 00:01:52,639 Speaker 1: it very clear that Ria Langham was not cool enough 35 00:01:52,720 --> 00:01:59,480 Speaker 1: to be his wife anymore. And the press was along 36 00:01:59,600 --> 00:02:03,280 Speaker 1: for that ride, where like, as he was seen out 37 00:02:03,360 --> 00:02:07,200 Speaker 1: with other women, it almost seemed like she was villainized 38 00:02:07,200 --> 00:02:10,200 Speaker 1: of like, uugh, why is this ugly old hag not 39 00:02:10,360 --> 00:02:12,880 Speaker 1: letting this poor man go and have the fabulous life 40 00:02:12,880 --> 00:02:16,919 Speaker 1: he deserves because he is hot and famous And it's like, ah, 41 00:02:16,960 --> 00:02:19,240 Speaker 1: like the whole thing just made me feel lucky. It 42 00:02:19,320 --> 00:02:23,760 Speaker 1: was really not cool. Yeah, it was not It was 43 00:02:23,800 --> 00:02:28,240 Speaker 1: not cool. I don't like any of that. Listen, I'm 44 00:02:28,240 --> 00:02:30,480 Speaker 1: not in their house. I don't know what their marriage 45 00:02:30,600 --> 00:02:34,160 Speaker 1: was like, but like, that's a really really gross way 46 00:02:34,200 --> 00:02:36,239 Speaker 1: for a woman to be treated in the press. 47 00:02:36,240 --> 00:02:36,640 Speaker 2: For sure. 48 00:02:38,400 --> 00:02:42,040 Speaker 1: I also didn't It never even crossed my mind until 49 00:02:42,080 --> 00:02:45,160 Speaker 1: I was researching this that there have at various points 50 00:02:45,200 --> 00:02:49,600 Speaker 1: been efforts for there to be a national divorce law. 51 00:02:49,960 --> 00:02:52,200 Speaker 2: Right. I just had never thought about it before. 52 00:02:52,880 --> 00:02:56,720 Speaker 1: Yeah, in part because there have been so many arguments 53 00:02:56,760 --> 00:02:58,760 Speaker 1: over the years of like why can Idaho have an 54 00:02:58,760 --> 00:03:01,280 Speaker 1: easier divorce than us and we still have to admit, 55 00:03:01,680 --> 00:03:04,639 Speaker 1: you know, adhere to its its judgment. Why can Nevada 56 00:03:04,639 --> 00:03:06,800 Speaker 1: doy this? Why can any of the states that have 57 00:03:06,880 --> 00:03:11,120 Speaker 1: been considered like divorce havens, right right? It made me 58 00:03:11,240 --> 00:03:16,880 Speaker 1: think about uh marriages being like states have their own 59 00:03:16,919 --> 00:03:22,440 Speaker 1: marriage laws. But the part about whether other states were 60 00:03:22,480 --> 00:03:28,639 Speaker 1: going to recognize Nevada's divorces made me think about the 61 00:03:28,720 --> 00:03:33,680 Speaker 1: whether other states were going to accept same sex marriages 62 00:03:33,680 --> 00:03:35,400 Speaker 1: that had been conducted in states or it was legal, 63 00:03:35,440 --> 00:03:39,560 Speaker 1: and that ultimately leaked to a Supreme Court decision because 64 00:03:39,560 --> 00:03:40,720 Speaker 1: that was one of the things that I was thinking 65 00:03:40,720 --> 00:03:43,640 Speaker 1: of as we were talking about this. Yeah, it's I 66 00:03:43,720 --> 00:03:45,560 Speaker 1: just had not ever thought about it that way. I mean, 67 00:03:45,600 --> 00:03:48,560 Speaker 1: I had thought about it in terms of marriages, right, 68 00:03:48,720 --> 00:03:51,480 Speaker 1: for all the reasons you just listed, but I literally 69 00:03:51,720 --> 00:03:54,160 Speaker 1: never crossed my mind, probably because I have not ever 70 00:03:54,320 --> 00:03:57,160 Speaker 1: been divorced or been like you know, I never would 71 00:03:57,160 --> 00:03:59,320 Speaker 1: have occurred to me like will this still hold in 72 00:03:59,360 --> 00:04:02,600 Speaker 1: another place. I'm not well versed in divorce law in 73 00:04:02,640 --> 00:04:07,000 Speaker 1: any state at all, but as I remember it growing 74 00:04:07,080 --> 00:04:10,120 Speaker 1: up in North Carolina, I remember hearing about people having 75 00:04:10,160 --> 00:04:14,520 Speaker 1: to have like a one year trial separation before their 76 00:04:14,560 --> 00:04:18,240 Speaker 1: divorce could be finalized, which I think is still how 77 00:04:18,320 --> 00:04:21,320 Speaker 1: it works in some states, it is, for sure. I 78 00:04:21,360 --> 00:04:23,720 Speaker 1: don't know specific ones, but I know there are still 79 00:04:23,720 --> 00:04:27,040 Speaker 1: some where you have to have a pretty lengthy period 80 00:04:27,080 --> 00:04:29,599 Speaker 1: after you file where before they will find it, before 81 00:04:29,600 --> 00:04:35,280 Speaker 1: it will finalize it, which like if you're for whatever reason, 82 00:04:36,040 --> 00:04:38,599 Speaker 1: like whether it is that your the marriage is like 83 00:04:40,440 --> 00:04:46,839 Speaker 1: verifiably abusive, or whether you're just unhappy, that just seems 84 00:04:46,880 --> 00:04:51,839 Speaker 1: like a very long time. Yeah, Yeah, it's it's so 85 00:04:51,960 --> 00:04:55,520 Speaker 1: wild to me too, in reading doing all of the 86 00:04:55,560 --> 00:04:58,279 Speaker 1: research I was doing for this. We even talk about 87 00:04:58,320 --> 00:05:01,360 Speaker 1: in the episode how divorce had this stigma around it, 88 00:05:02,200 --> 00:05:04,359 Speaker 1: but there were still people doing it many times in 89 00:05:04,400 --> 00:05:07,360 Speaker 1: their lives. Sure, you know there were people. I mean 90 00:05:07,400 --> 00:05:09,840 Speaker 1: we mentioned that Rhea Lanham was on her third marriage 91 00:05:09,880 --> 00:05:13,000 Speaker 1: before she even met Clark Gable, and she was not 92 00:05:13,240 --> 00:05:15,839 Speaker 1: an outlier really in terms of like I feel like 93 00:05:15,960 --> 00:05:22,200 Speaker 1: those rules applied to the lower income pieces of the 94 00:05:22,279 --> 00:05:26,960 Speaker 1: economic instruction. Yeah, those rules apply to people who can't 95 00:05:27,000 --> 00:05:31,720 Speaker 1: afford to overcome stigma with money, you know, because it 96 00:05:31,839 --> 00:05:34,800 Speaker 1: was like one thing after another I would read about like, oh, 97 00:05:35,000 --> 00:05:37,880 Speaker 1: this person was on their sixth marriage and blah blah. 98 00:05:37,920 --> 00:05:42,320 Speaker 1: I'm like, wait a minute, divorce was stigmatized, and then 99 00:05:42,440 --> 00:05:45,120 Speaker 1: you realize it was. It just wasn't for people that 100 00:05:45,160 --> 00:05:50,680 Speaker 1: were rich or famous. One of the stories a rabbit 101 00:05:50,720 --> 00:05:53,000 Speaker 1: hole I went down while I was working on this 102 00:05:54,000 --> 00:05:56,640 Speaker 1: That doesn't really make it its way into the episode 103 00:05:56,680 --> 00:05:59,040 Speaker 1: at all, but I don't know, I feel like I 104 00:05:59,080 --> 00:06:01,840 Speaker 1: want to talk about it a little. Is Rita Hayworth. Yeah, 105 00:06:02,640 --> 00:06:06,440 Speaker 1: I had not done a ton of research into Rita 106 00:06:06,440 --> 00:06:07,239 Speaker 1: Hayworth's life. 107 00:06:08,440 --> 00:06:09,440 Speaker 2: It broke my heart. 108 00:06:09,680 --> 00:06:12,320 Speaker 1: Oh now, because she's so beautiful, and even now when 109 00:06:12,360 --> 00:06:15,440 Speaker 1: someone mentions Rita Hayworth, you think of this like gorgeous, 110 00:06:15,560 --> 00:06:19,000 Speaker 1: bubbly movie star who was just like No, her life 111 00:06:19,040 --> 00:06:23,560 Speaker 1: was awful. Oh no, she was married five times. It 112 00:06:23,640 --> 00:06:29,719 Speaker 1: did not go well any of them. She had what 113 00:06:30,400 --> 00:06:32,560 Speaker 1: there's a very interesting thing that goes on where she 114 00:06:33,720 --> 00:06:37,719 Speaker 1: may or may not have had a drinking problem, and 115 00:06:38,279 --> 00:06:40,919 Speaker 1: she was very irrational and had a lot of irrational 116 00:06:41,040 --> 00:06:45,200 Speaker 1: anger behaviors and stuff that weren't diagnosed like starting in 117 00:06:45,360 --> 00:06:48,719 Speaker 1: I think around the early nineteen sixties, and they weren't 118 00:06:48,760 --> 00:06:54,280 Speaker 1: diagnosed as Alzheimer's until the nineteen eighties. And her daughter 119 00:06:55,600 --> 00:06:58,839 Speaker 1: was like, now it all makes sense, Like we just 120 00:06:58,920 --> 00:07:03,080 Speaker 1: thought she was an alcoholic, but really she had other 121 00:07:03,120 --> 00:07:05,640 Speaker 1: stuff going on. But what I really really want to 122 00:07:05,640 --> 00:07:09,320 Speaker 1: discuss is Orson Wells, because, Okay, do you know Rita 123 00:07:09,360 --> 00:07:11,640 Speaker 1: Hayworth was Mary Dorson Wells. I did not remember that 124 00:07:12,240 --> 00:07:14,520 Speaker 1: Mary Dorson Wells. And like it's one of those things 125 00:07:14,520 --> 00:07:17,040 Speaker 1: where when I see pictures of them together, it is 126 00:07:17,120 --> 00:07:20,040 Speaker 1: the sweetest thing. They look like the cutest couple on 127 00:07:20,080 --> 00:07:22,760 Speaker 1: the planet. They look so into each other. They look 128 00:07:22,840 --> 00:07:25,280 Speaker 1: like they are always laughing together, like exactly what you 129 00:07:25,320 --> 00:07:27,640 Speaker 1: picture when you're like, what does a cool Hollywood couple 130 00:07:27,680 --> 00:07:30,800 Speaker 1: look like? And she even said later in her life 131 00:07:30,920 --> 00:07:32,800 Speaker 1: after they had gotten divorced, like he was the love 132 00:07:32,840 --> 00:07:35,600 Speaker 1: of my life. I should have not left him, but 133 00:07:35,720 --> 00:07:38,160 Speaker 1: like they didn't want the same things. He didn't want 134 00:07:38,240 --> 00:07:40,280 Speaker 1: to like settle down and have a homie life and 135 00:07:40,720 --> 00:07:43,320 Speaker 1: she did, and that wasn't going to happen. They weren't 136 00:07:43,920 --> 00:07:47,040 Speaker 1: neither Any resolution would lead to one of them not being. 137 00:07:46,880 --> 00:07:47,600 Speaker 2: Happy, right. 138 00:07:48,960 --> 00:07:51,280 Speaker 1: But what was really really heartbreaking is that when she 139 00:07:51,520 --> 00:07:53,480 Speaker 1: said in an interview towards the end of her life 140 00:07:53,480 --> 00:07:55,000 Speaker 1: that he had been the love of her life and 141 00:07:55,040 --> 00:07:58,320 Speaker 1: that she she really regretted not staying with him, and 142 00:07:59,000 --> 00:08:02,560 Speaker 1: he had heard this, and his commentary on it really 143 00:08:02,560 --> 00:08:05,840 Speaker 1: broke my heart because he was like, if what we had, 144 00:08:05,880 --> 00:08:09,400 Speaker 1: which was sometimes fun, was the best time in her life, 145 00:08:09,440 --> 00:08:11,920 Speaker 1: her life had to have been horrifying. I don't know, 146 00:08:12,080 --> 00:08:13,640 Speaker 1: because he was like, we didn't have that great of 147 00:08:13,680 --> 00:08:17,000 Speaker 1: a marriage, so like, if I was the nicest person 148 00:08:17,080 --> 00:08:19,800 Speaker 1: she was ever with, this is a problem. And there 149 00:08:19,840 --> 00:08:23,000 Speaker 1: are other accounts of like people that saw her out 150 00:08:23,000 --> 00:08:25,520 Speaker 1: with some of her husbands, and one that's just hard 151 00:08:25,560 --> 00:08:30,400 Speaker 1: to read of her just being verbally abused by these 152 00:08:30,400 --> 00:08:32,520 Speaker 1: people all the time and treated like trash, which she 153 00:08:32,679 --> 00:08:37,120 Speaker 1: was like famous and smart and interesting and she was 154 00:08:37,160 --> 00:08:39,760 Speaker 1: a very shy person. Anyway, it just broke my heart. 155 00:08:39,840 --> 00:08:45,240 Speaker 1: Rita Hayworth, I have new heart feels for you. It 156 00:08:45,280 --> 00:08:47,320 Speaker 1: really really did. The last thing I want to end 157 00:08:47,360 --> 00:08:50,240 Speaker 1: on because I think it's funny, and we mentioned the 158 00:08:50,320 --> 00:08:53,320 Speaker 1: quickie marriage and how you didn't have to do blood 159 00:08:53,360 --> 00:08:56,560 Speaker 1: tests or waiting periods, Okay, I got married long enough ago. 160 00:08:56,600 --> 00:08:59,280 Speaker 1: I had to take a blood test. Yeah, no blood 161 00:08:59,280 --> 00:09:02,240 Speaker 1: test for me, which is hilarious to me anyway, Like 162 00:09:02,280 --> 00:09:05,599 Speaker 1: it feels so like such an arcane practice at this 163 00:09:05,960 --> 00:09:08,120 Speaker 1: plight that when I tell people we had to take 164 00:09:08,160 --> 00:09:10,400 Speaker 1: a blood test, they look at me with quizzical puppy face. 165 00:09:10,440 --> 00:09:13,800 Speaker 1: But the funniest part was, because I got married in 166 00:09:13,880 --> 00:09:16,080 Speaker 1: nineteen ninety six, some of our listeners probably weren't even 167 00:09:16,080 --> 00:09:19,679 Speaker 1: born yet. We asked the nurse who took our blood, 168 00:09:20,160 --> 00:09:22,960 Speaker 1: what are you testing for? Because we we had always 169 00:09:23,000 --> 00:09:26,120 Speaker 1: heard listen, don't anybody come for me. These are the 170 00:09:26,160 --> 00:09:29,199 Speaker 1: things that have always were always rumored about the blood test, 171 00:09:29,800 --> 00:09:32,800 Speaker 1: that it was because we live in the South, to 172 00:09:32,920 --> 00:09:35,040 Speaker 1: check and make sure you were not too closely related 173 00:09:35,040 --> 00:09:38,760 Speaker 1: to Okay, I always thought it was syphilis in it. 174 00:09:38,760 --> 00:09:40,880 Speaker 1: It was syphilis and TB and that was it. 175 00:09:41,160 --> 00:09:41,520 Speaker 2: Okay. 176 00:09:41,840 --> 00:09:44,480 Speaker 1: And I remember thinking, like we got married, you know, 177 00:09:44,800 --> 00:09:48,320 Speaker 1: after the AIDS crisis had come through, and I remember 178 00:09:48,360 --> 00:09:51,280 Speaker 1: asking the nurse, like, have you guys never added additional 179 00:09:51,320 --> 00:09:54,800 Speaker 1: things like wouldn't that be important information to like get 180 00:09:54,840 --> 00:09:56,760 Speaker 1: in the midst of this, and like other things that 181 00:09:56,800 --> 00:09:59,400 Speaker 1: you could capture and let couples know is going on, 182 00:09:59,440 --> 00:10:01,600 Speaker 1: and she's like, no, it's just a really old law 183 00:10:01,640 --> 00:10:02,080 Speaker 1: in the books. 184 00:10:02,080 --> 00:10:03,280 Speaker 2: I don't even want to do it, but we have, 185 00:10:03,800 --> 00:10:04,679 Speaker 2: And I was like, what. 186 00:10:10,200 --> 00:10:13,440 Speaker 1: It? On the lighter notes of things, A thing I 187 00:10:13,520 --> 00:10:15,600 Speaker 1: kept thinking about in this episode, of course, was how 188 00:10:15,600 --> 00:10:21,080 Speaker 1: to pronounce the word nevadaa because that's not how I 189 00:10:21,120 --> 00:10:25,760 Speaker 1: grew up saying it right. And the only reason that 190 00:10:25,840 --> 00:10:28,719 Speaker 1: I say it that way is because I do not 191 00:10:28,840 --> 00:10:33,000 Speaker 1: want people from Nevada to be upset with me. Something 192 00:10:33,080 --> 00:10:36,280 Speaker 1: that is funny to me is that Nevada is not 193 00:10:36,440 --> 00:10:41,600 Speaker 1: the only state where locals pronounce it slightly differently than 194 00:10:41,679 --> 00:10:46,000 Speaker 1: a lot of other places. But I feel like Nevada 195 00:10:46,120 --> 00:10:50,360 Speaker 1: is the state that has the reputation for being very 196 00:10:50,360 --> 00:10:51,120 Speaker 1: focused on it. 197 00:10:52,040 --> 00:10:53,000 Speaker 2: And it reminds me. 198 00:10:52,960 --> 00:10:55,360 Speaker 1: A little bit of how there are several states that 199 00:10:55,440 --> 00:11:00,640 Speaker 1: call themselves commonwealths oh right, but in my life experience, 200 00:11:01,600 --> 00:11:05,319 Speaker 1: other people's experience might be different. In my life experience, 201 00:11:06,120 --> 00:11:10,920 Speaker 1: Virginia is the state that cares if you don't call 202 00:11:11,000 --> 00:11:14,640 Speaker 1: it the Commonwealth of Virginia. I don't know that I've 203 00:11:14,640 --> 00:11:18,160 Speaker 1: ever bumped up against that enough to have a thought 204 00:11:18,200 --> 00:11:22,480 Speaker 1: on it, but I see what you're saying, I do agree. 205 00:11:22,200 --> 00:11:26,840 Speaker 1: I feel like, with no shade to people from Nevada, listen, 206 00:11:26,920 --> 00:11:28,880 Speaker 1: you want what you want. But it is the one 207 00:11:28,920 --> 00:11:33,600 Speaker 1: that I feel like residents are more likely to correct 208 00:11:33,640 --> 00:11:38,719 Speaker 1: you on pretty vehemently. I will say to people as 209 00:11:38,800 --> 00:11:42,640 Speaker 1: if someone says, like, my rules for correcting people are 210 00:11:42,440 --> 00:11:47,080 Speaker 1: you only correct people to prevent embarrassment or prevent harm. 211 00:11:47,720 --> 00:11:48,480 Speaker 2: That's my rule. 212 00:11:49,600 --> 00:11:51,559 Speaker 1: And so if a friend of mine tells me, oh, 213 00:11:51,600 --> 00:11:54,200 Speaker 1: I'm going to go on vacation in Nevada, I'm like, hey, 214 00:11:55,760 --> 00:11:59,200 Speaker 1: just so you know, if you don't say it Nevada 215 00:11:59,360 --> 00:12:02,080 Speaker 1: people might be upset with you. I know. 216 00:12:02,400 --> 00:12:03,400 Speaker 2: This is also. 217 00:12:04,600 --> 00:12:09,720 Speaker 1: Speaking of which speaking of people going on vacation to Nevada, 218 00:12:10,240 --> 00:12:13,040 Speaker 1: this is preceding a trip I am making. I have 219 00:12:13,160 --> 00:12:16,240 Speaker 1: never been to Las Vegas. Oh yeah, I don't know 220 00:12:16,360 --> 00:12:16,800 Speaker 1: how that. 221 00:12:16,760 --> 00:12:18,600 Speaker 2: I said that. Surprisingly. I don't know why I said 222 00:12:18,600 --> 00:12:19,319 Speaker 2: a surprise. 223 00:12:19,120 --> 00:12:21,480 Speaker 1: Because it seems like a place I would go, right, Like, 224 00:12:21,640 --> 00:12:24,839 Speaker 1: there's drinking and carousing and giggling and all kinds of 225 00:12:24,880 --> 00:12:27,240 Speaker 1: shows and wackiness like, and it's very bright and there's 226 00:12:27,280 --> 00:12:29,000 Speaker 1: tons of visual stimulation. 227 00:12:29,120 --> 00:12:31,200 Speaker 2: It seems like a place I would go place. 228 00:12:31,280 --> 00:12:36,000 Speaker 1: Yeah, I've never been, so I'm going I think by 229 00:12:36,000 --> 00:12:38,760 Speaker 1: a four. I don't remember if it's before or after 230 00:12:38,800 --> 00:12:40,920 Speaker 1: this episode will air. It's right around when this episode 231 00:12:40,960 --> 00:12:43,920 Speaker 1: will air. We'll see if I love it. And then okay, 232 00:12:44,240 --> 00:12:47,960 Speaker 1: remember to not say it incorrectly when I anybody asked 233 00:12:48,000 --> 00:12:50,320 Speaker 1: me what state I'm in. I mean, all the talk 234 00:12:50,360 --> 00:12:52,960 Speaker 1: about the divorce ranches in this episode just made me 235 00:12:53,120 --> 00:12:57,240 Speaker 1: want to repeat the several days I spent last year 236 00:12:58,200 --> 00:13:02,480 Speaker 1: at a health spa, at the place I have fraught 237 00:13:02,520 --> 00:13:06,440 Speaker 1: feelings about, but I so loved just having all my 238 00:13:06,480 --> 00:13:10,760 Speaker 1: meals included and continually having access to a swimming pool 239 00:13:10,880 --> 00:13:15,920 Speaker 1: and massages. And I was just like, yeah, not the 240 00:13:16,000 --> 00:13:18,920 Speaker 1: divorce part, but everything else about these ranches sounds great 241 00:13:18,960 --> 00:13:23,160 Speaker 1: to me. It's not my jam. I'm like, is there 242 00:13:23,600 --> 00:13:27,280 Speaker 1: a cocktail lounge in the spa? Is there a can 243 00:13:27,320 --> 00:13:30,200 Speaker 1: you watch TV? Is there like a movie theater in 244 00:13:30,240 --> 00:13:31,600 Speaker 1: the spa? Like I can? 245 00:13:31,679 --> 00:13:32,079 Speaker 2: I can? 246 00:13:32,120 --> 00:13:34,360 Speaker 1: I bring my sewing machine? Like I just I feel 247 00:13:34,360 --> 00:13:36,640 Speaker 1: like just sitting and hanging out is never my thing. 248 00:13:37,000 --> 00:13:40,040 Speaker 2: Yeah, I went on a lot of walks. I love 249 00:13:40,080 --> 00:13:41,359 Speaker 2: to go on walks. 250 00:13:41,920 --> 00:13:44,679 Speaker 1: Yeah, I like going on walks, but I'm usually like, 251 00:13:44,840 --> 00:13:48,360 Speaker 1: and now we go do a thing like now we 252 00:13:48,400 --> 00:13:50,120 Speaker 1: go to a museum, Like it never feels like I'm 253 00:13:50,120 --> 00:13:52,199 Speaker 1: doing a thing when I'm doing a walk, and so 254 00:13:52,280 --> 00:13:55,679 Speaker 1: I get like I'm mentally antsy. Yea. Even though I 255 00:13:55,720 --> 00:13:59,080 Speaker 1: often enjoy them and I feel relaxed after them, I 256 00:13:59,120 --> 00:14:02,520 Speaker 1: think I need more stuff in my vacation. Yeah, which 257 00:14:02,559 --> 00:14:05,079 Speaker 1: is probably why most people are shocked when they find 258 00:14:05,120 --> 00:14:06,720 Speaker 1: out I have not been a loss fac This is 259 00:14:06,760 --> 00:14:10,840 Speaker 1: also why I went by myself. Patrick would not enjoy 260 00:14:10,960 --> 00:14:16,320 Speaker 1: a vacation that involved taking walks and meditating and reading 261 00:14:16,360 --> 00:14:20,240 Speaker 1: books by the fireplace like that's just not That would 262 00:14:20,280 --> 00:14:24,400 Speaker 1: not be his jam. Me either me either. Can I 263 00:14:24,560 --> 00:14:28,200 Speaker 1: listen to the book while I am also doing something kooky, 264 00:14:28,800 --> 00:14:32,160 Speaker 1: throwing a clay pot, anything, Just something to keep my busy, 265 00:14:32,200 --> 00:14:36,840 Speaker 1: busy hands busy. Otherwise I might do crimes. Tracy, you 266 00:14:36,840 --> 00:14:37,760 Speaker 1: got to keep me busy. 267 00:14:39,600 --> 00:14:40,080 Speaker 2: I get it. 268 00:14:41,520 --> 00:14:44,760 Speaker 1: No, I envy people that can relax by relaxing, but 269 00:14:44,800 --> 00:14:58,760 Speaker 1: that's not how my brain works. We talked about some 270 00:14:59,280 --> 00:15:01,160 Speaker 1: etiquette manals this time. 271 00:15:01,280 --> 00:15:06,360 Speaker 2: I sure did. I have a running. 272 00:15:06,040 --> 00:15:10,760 Speaker 1: List of things to do episodes like installments of six 273 00:15:10,760 --> 00:15:15,360 Speaker 1: Impossible episodes, and the etiquette manuals was not on there 274 00:15:16,080 --> 00:15:19,680 Speaker 1: what actually, aside from just my ongoing interest in etiquette 275 00:15:19,720 --> 00:15:23,720 Speaker 1: and how etiquette has evolved and what etiquette the role 276 00:15:23,720 --> 00:15:27,680 Speaker 1: etiquette plays in society. Besides all of that, toward the 277 00:15:27,840 --> 00:15:31,880 Speaker 1: end of February, I saw a piece at a website 278 00:15:31,920 --> 00:15:36,320 Speaker 1: called public Domain Review that was about the galateo that 279 00:15:36,440 --> 00:15:39,480 Speaker 1: was really interesting and kind of like prompted my brain 280 00:15:39,560 --> 00:15:41,880 Speaker 1: of like, what else can we talk about with etiquette? 281 00:15:42,280 --> 00:15:42,480 Speaker 2: Right? 282 00:15:44,000 --> 00:15:47,720 Speaker 1: And that was what ultimately grew into this episode. 283 00:15:47,880 --> 00:15:48,760 Speaker 2: And Man, my. 284 00:15:49,000 --> 00:15:53,960 Speaker 1: Relationship with this is I would say, very complicated. On 285 00:15:54,040 --> 00:15:58,840 Speaker 1: the one hand, I think society is better if we 286 00:15:58,960 --> 00:16:04,040 Speaker 1: have some collective understandings of like, you know, what's rude, 287 00:16:04,560 --> 00:16:08,600 Speaker 1: what's appropriate, what's inappropriate. I think this can help all 288 00:16:08,640 --> 00:16:12,000 Speaker 1: of us just get along better together because we live 289 00:16:12,720 --> 00:16:17,040 Speaker 1: together in the world. And it's really great if sort 290 00:16:17,080 --> 00:16:22,320 Speaker 1: of everyone agrees that you should not, for example, take 291 00:16:22,400 --> 00:16:25,240 Speaker 1: pictures of strangers and put them on your social media 292 00:16:25,360 --> 00:16:26,720 Speaker 1: to make fun of them. 293 00:16:27,120 --> 00:16:28,600 Speaker 2: Yeah, that seems like a basic one. 294 00:16:28,880 --> 00:16:30,600 Speaker 1: I mean, I feel like it all boils down to 295 00:16:31,000 --> 00:16:35,800 Speaker 1: at this point, we are less stuffy than previous generations 296 00:16:35,840 --> 00:16:36,240 Speaker 1: have been. 297 00:16:36,760 --> 00:16:38,320 Speaker 2: Uh huh, just be cool man. 298 00:16:38,760 --> 00:16:42,920 Speaker 1: Yeah, that's my incredibly short and non publishable etiquette book 299 00:16:43,040 --> 00:16:44,840 Speaker 1: Be Kind, Be Cool, Try not. 300 00:16:44,920 --> 00:16:45,960 Speaker 2: To be dust other people. 301 00:16:47,120 --> 00:16:49,920 Speaker 1: At the same time, a lot of the more specific rules, 302 00:16:51,560 --> 00:16:53,360 Speaker 1: like a lot of them have been used to just 303 00:16:53,480 --> 00:16:58,680 Speaker 1: reinforce standards that are racist or sexist, or classist or colonialists, 304 00:16:58,720 --> 00:17:01,400 Speaker 1: like a lot of stuff that has to do with 305 00:17:01,480 --> 00:17:06,120 Speaker 1: things like eye contact, how to speak, how to. 306 00:17:06,080 --> 00:17:08,080 Speaker 2: Interact with other people. A lot of that. 307 00:17:08,359 --> 00:17:11,840 Speaker 1: There's increasing awareness that it can be really ablest, like 308 00:17:11,960 --> 00:17:15,639 Speaker 1: the idea, oh yeah, that like autistic kids should be 309 00:17:15,760 --> 00:17:21,520 Speaker 1: taught to make eye contact when it makes them uncomfortable 310 00:17:21,840 --> 00:17:24,000 Speaker 1: or can even be like painful to try to do that, 311 00:17:24,960 --> 00:17:31,880 Speaker 1: rather than like, let's change the rule to not focus on, 312 00:17:32,320 --> 00:17:35,679 Speaker 1: you know, the whether someone is making eye contact with 313 00:17:35,720 --> 00:17:38,159 Speaker 1: you as the arbiter of whether they are a trustworthy 314 00:17:38,240 --> 00:17:38,439 Speaker 1: or not. 315 00:17:39,920 --> 00:17:41,600 Speaker 2: There's all so much stuff like that. 316 00:17:42,440 --> 00:17:45,359 Speaker 1: I will say this, I feel like you and I 317 00:17:45,400 --> 00:17:48,679 Speaker 1: have very different takeaways on Emily posts, okay, because you 318 00:17:48,800 --> 00:17:52,199 Speaker 1: found reading her very stressful. It's so yeah, and I 319 00:17:52,240 --> 00:17:55,920 Speaker 1: found out the ways at opposite really because the even 320 00:17:55,960 --> 00:17:59,560 Speaker 1: though yes, obviously very classiest, like her father found it 321 00:17:59,640 --> 00:18:03,359 Speaker 1: a town that's still a very upscale community, like she 322 00:18:03,680 --> 00:18:08,159 Speaker 1: clearly came from money and only knew that life, But 323 00:18:08,560 --> 00:18:14,399 Speaker 1: the prevailing sentiment of her book to me was just 324 00:18:14,600 --> 00:18:18,120 Speaker 1: make other people comfortable, and that was more important than 325 00:18:18,160 --> 00:18:21,520 Speaker 1: anything else. So I kind of my read was always 326 00:18:21,600 --> 00:18:25,879 Speaker 1: like that. There is an unspoken degree of in an 327 00:18:25,920 --> 00:18:28,720 Speaker 1: example like you just gave Granted she would have to 328 00:18:28,800 --> 00:18:31,800 Speaker 1: update some stuff to mat work, but that she would 329 00:18:31,840 --> 00:18:34,600 Speaker 1: be like, well, obviously that doesn't make that person comfortable. 330 00:18:34,600 --> 00:18:37,120 Speaker 1: I would never expect that, you know what I mean, 331 00:18:37,320 --> 00:18:40,119 Speaker 1: But I think there's an unspoken element of that to 332 00:18:40,240 --> 00:18:44,000 Speaker 1: her work. Did you happen to stumble across the story? 333 00:18:44,160 --> 00:18:47,399 Speaker 1: We did an episode about her husband's blackmail on Criminalia, 334 00:18:47,440 --> 00:18:50,119 Speaker 1: which is why I have more Emily Post under my 335 00:18:50,119 --> 00:18:52,639 Speaker 1: belt than I would have, you know, a year ago. 336 00:18:54,040 --> 00:18:58,600 Speaker 1: There is a story about how she once was at 337 00:18:58,640 --> 00:19:02,080 Speaker 1: a dinner eating the dessert, which was a fruit dessert, 338 00:19:02,160 --> 00:19:05,520 Speaker 1: and several raspberries fell off her spoon onto the table, 339 00:19:06,040 --> 00:19:08,960 Speaker 1: and how she was utterly mortified, but no one said 340 00:19:09,000 --> 00:19:13,719 Speaker 1: anything or even acknowledged it, and how like that was 341 00:19:13,880 --> 00:19:17,080 Speaker 1: one a moment of respect for her, like to not 342 00:19:18,080 --> 00:19:20,800 Speaker 1: give grief to someone who is of, you know, such 343 00:19:20,840 --> 00:19:26,720 Speaker 1: incredibly high rank and financial stature, but also like it 344 00:19:26,800 --> 00:19:29,239 Speaker 1: made her it was a lesson to her about like 345 00:19:29,800 --> 00:19:31,680 Speaker 1: because they didn't want to make me uncomfortable. 346 00:19:31,880 --> 00:19:32,960 Speaker 2: Oh sure, And. 347 00:19:32,880 --> 00:19:35,280 Speaker 1: So for her that was a moment of like, yes, 348 00:19:35,359 --> 00:19:39,440 Speaker 1: these rules are in place, but it's not like somebody 349 00:19:39,520 --> 00:19:42,800 Speaker 1: goes to dessert jail if they do something wrong, you 350 00:19:42,800 --> 00:19:46,640 Speaker 1: know what I mean, Like it's fine. Yeah, yeah, Well, 351 00:19:46,680 --> 00:19:48,720 Speaker 1: in her you know, all of the books that we 352 00:19:48,760 --> 00:19:50,720 Speaker 1: have talked about have kind of the same core thing. 353 00:19:50,840 --> 00:19:53,600 Speaker 1: That's like, try to make other people comfortable, try not 354 00:19:53,760 --> 00:19:56,440 Speaker 1: to make other people uncomfortable, and don't be a jerk. 355 00:19:56,520 --> 00:19:59,720 Speaker 1: Like that's kind of I can get behind all of that. Yeah, 356 00:20:00,080 --> 00:20:02,960 Speaker 1: it was when I would get into this, like the 357 00:20:03,480 --> 00:20:07,080 Speaker 1: specific examples that I suddenly would and I think this 358 00:20:07,160 --> 00:20:11,439 Speaker 1: is probably more her writing style than the actual rules 359 00:20:11,440 --> 00:20:12,359 Speaker 1: that she had in mind. 360 00:20:13,160 --> 00:20:15,640 Speaker 2: Yeah, I could see that, and. 361 00:20:15,040 --> 00:20:18,000 Speaker 1: And I would be like, oh okay, I felt fine 362 00:20:18,040 --> 00:20:20,640 Speaker 1: when it was once when you were introduced to somebody, 363 00:20:20,680 --> 00:20:23,959 Speaker 1: the response is how do you do? And then when 364 00:20:24,040 --> 00:20:27,280 Speaker 1: it suddenly had a lot of other examples following that 365 00:20:27,359 --> 00:20:29,480 Speaker 1: of things not to say, I was like, oh no, 366 00:20:29,560 --> 00:20:31,399 Speaker 1: what if I say one of these things? Like that 367 00:20:31,560 --> 00:20:33,760 Speaker 1: was sort of where my mind went with it to 368 00:20:34,160 --> 00:20:37,040 Speaker 1: nobody's going to make you uncomfortable. Yes, And that's the 369 00:20:37,080 --> 00:20:42,320 Speaker 1: Trump rule, right, meaning that it Trump's other things don't 370 00:20:42,320 --> 00:20:44,840 Speaker 1: make people uncomfortable and everybody will be fine. 371 00:20:45,119 --> 00:20:45,359 Speaker 2: Yeah. 372 00:20:45,359 --> 00:20:48,720 Speaker 1: And those books now have been updated so many times 373 00:20:48,720 --> 00:20:50,520 Speaker 1: that I'm sure if I picked one up now and 374 00:20:50,600 --> 00:20:53,200 Speaker 1: read it, I would have a totally different experience than 375 00:20:53,240 --> 00:20:55,520 Speaker 1: reading the one that was from nineteen twenty two. 376 00:20:55,400 --> 00:20:55,879 Speaker 2: For sure. 377 00:20:56,160 --> 00:20:58,640 Speaker 1: I mean, stilted language will do that to me anyway, 378 00:20:58,760 --> 00:21:03,479 Speaker 1: just reading something that's in like the vernacular or you know, 379 00:21:03,960 --> 00:21:07,240 Speaker 1: typical sentence structure of I'm like, whoa, this feels very stiff, 380 00:21:07,280 --> 00:21:11,400 Speaker 1: and it's really not. But that's the style of writing. Yeah. 381 00:21:11,600 --> 00:21:12,000 Speaker 2: Yeah. 382 00:21:12,080 --> 00:21:15,520 Speaker 1: I also love that she was not a drinker. She 383 00:21:15,600 --> 00:21:18,560 Speaker 1: never drank a single drop of alcohol in her entire life, 384 00:21:19,240 --> 00:21:20,960 Speaker 1: but she always offered people cocktails. 385 00:21:21,200 --> 00:21:21,400 Speaker 2: Yeah. 386 00:21:21,480 --> 00:21:24,480 Speaker 1: She was like, some people want to drink, and I'm 387 00:21:24,720 --> 00:21:27,000 Speaker 1: I'm big on that. Like, whatever your thing is, great, 388 00:21:27,560 --> 00:21:28,520 Speaker 1: don't leave anybody out. 389 00:21:28,800 --> 00:21:33,639 Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah. 390 00:21:33,760 --> 00:21:38,800 Speaker 1: I For some reason, starting on this, I did not 391 00:21:38,960 --> 00:21:41,760 Speaker 1: realize how similar so many things in all of these 392 00:21:41,800 --> 00:21:45,359 Speaker 1: books were going to be. Like, there's various details that 393 00:21:45,400 --> 00:21:49,399 Speaker 1: are different. Right, The basic concept of trying to make 394 00:21:49,440 --> 00:21:51,720 Speaker 1: people other people comfortable, try not to be a jerk, 395 00:21:52,320 --> 00:21:56,159 Speaker 1: being kind of the through line of all of them. 396 00:21:57,240 --> 00:22:00,720 Speaker 1: Something else that struck me was all of the stuff 397 00:22:00,840 --> 00:22:05,600 Speaker 1: about making formal visits, which of course I knew was 398 00:22:05,640 --> 00:22:10,720 Speaker 1: a thing. Yeah, I didn't quite realize that it persisted 399 00:22:12,280 --> 00:22:14,760 Speaker 1: as long as it did in terms of these books 400 00:22:14,800 --> 00:22:18,520 Speaker 1: that we have talked about, because like, by the time 401 00:22:18,560 --> 00:22:22,000 Speaker 1: I was born, there were times that we made kind 402 00:22:22,040 --> 00:22:26,199 Speaker 1: of like formal intentional visits to people which were a 403 00:22:26,359 --> 00:22:29,040 Speaker 1: visit because of a thing that had happened, but like 404 00:22:29,200 --> 00:22:38,040 Speaker 1: not with quite the formalized systemic focus that came across 405 00:22:38,080 --> 00:22:41,320 Speaker 1: in some of these right, and so like I just 406 00:22:41,320 --> 00:22:44,800 Speaker 1: didn't realize that it had quite gone on as as 407 00:22:44,880 --> 00:22:49,880 Speaker 1: long as that had. The part about I think this 408 00:22:49,920 --> 00:22:55,320 Speaker 1: was in Daisy Eyebright about how leaving your card with 409 00:22:55,359 --> 00:22:56,840 Speaker 1: people when you're gonna go away. 410 00:22:56,600 --> 00:22:58,800 Speaker 2: For a long time. That cracked me up. 411 00:22:59,119 --> 00:23:01,119 Speaker 1: It cracked me up to you, and it reminded me 412 00:23:01,200 --> 00:23:03,040 Speaker 1: of I have a friend that I have dinner with 413 00:23:03,640 --> 00:23:06,040 Speaker 1: usually once a week on Thursdays, and we have a 414 00:23:06,080 --> 00:23:09,119 Speaker 1: calendar like a meeting invite so that we you know, 415 00:23:10,080 --> 00:23:15,040 Speaker 1: just remember that that's because we're busy people. And one 416 00:23:15,160 --> 00:23:18,280 Speaker 1: time she had gone away for a couple or three 417 00:23:18,320 --> 00:23:21,240 Speaker 1: weeks and I had gone into my phone to like 418 00:23:21,560 --> 00:23:25,240 Speaker 1: just remove the meeting for the time that she was 419 00:23:25,320 --> 00:23:28,720 Speaker 1: going to be gone, and I accidentally like fumbled my 420 00:23:28,880 --> 00:23:32,399 Speaker 1: phone and deleted the whole thing, Like I deleted the 421 00:23:32,440 --> 00:23:33,280 Speaker 1: whole recurrence. 422 00:23:33,320 --> 00:23:35,680 Speaker 2: It was all gone, okay, And. 423 00:23:35,680 --> 00:23:38,760 Speaker 1: So after she was back, I was like, oh, yeah, 424 00:23:38,800 --> 00:23:42,399 Speaker 1: I'm gonna set that invite back up because I accidentally 425 00:23:42,440 --> 00:23:46,920 Speaker 1: deleted the whole thing. And she said, well, okay, that's fine. 426 00:23:47,040 --> 00:23:49,840 Speaker 1: Way to trash our whole friendship though, and that made 427 00:23:49,920 --> 00:23:54,000 Speaker 1: me laugh so hard. It was clearly a joke, obviously, 428 00:23:54,320 --> 00:23:56,440 Speaker 1: it made me laugh so hard, but then it reminded 429 00:23:56,440 --> 00:23:59,640 Speaker 1: me of like, uh, you know, forgetting to leave your 430 00:23:59,640 --> 00:24:02,919 Speaker 1: card with somebody the way that was framed, and Daisy 431 00:24:02,920 --> 00:24:06,000 Speaker 1: Ibright was like, and then your friendship is over. Well, 432 00:24:06,080 --> 00:24:09,120 Speaker 1: like I feel like by her rules, nobody would ever 433 00:24:09,119 --> 00:24:12,800 Speaker 1: be my friend because I'm a jerk and I don't 434 00:24:12,840 --> 00:24:15,720 Speaker 1: mean to be. But like one, I also just think, 435 00:24:15,800 --> 00:24:19,000 Speaker 1: like the modern era is very different, obviously, but like 436 00:24:21,040 --> 00:24:24,240 Speaker 1: what it made me think about is how one, I 437 00:24:24,280 --> 00:24:28,000 Speaker 1: have a close friend who we watch each other's pets 438 00:24:28,000 --> 00:24:31,280 Speaker 1: when we travel, and there have definitely been times where 439 00:24:31,320 --> 00:24:34,399 Speaker 1: I just assume she has psychically read my mind or 440 00:24:34,440 --> 00:24:36,760 Speaker 1: looked at my personal to do list, and then like 441 00:24:37,080 --> 00:24:39,240 Speaker 1: the day before we leave or somewhere, I'm like, you're 442 00:24:39,320 --> 00:24:41,520 Speaker 1: available for the cats this week? Right, and she'll be 443 00:24:41,600 --> 00:24:43,840 Speaker 1: like yes or no, And then there have been a 444 00:24:43,880 --> 00:24:45,880 Speaker 1: couple moments where I've had to scramble and be like, okay, 445 00:24:45,960 --> 00:24:50,840 Speaker 1: for Cember two, are you available? But also because I 446 00:24:50,880 --> 00:24:54,040 Speaker 1: am extremely fortunate and I have friends in a lot 447 00:24:54,040 --> 00:24:58,920 Speaker 1: of the places we travel, I am sometimes very bad 448 00:24:59,000 --> 00:25:03,120 Speaker 1: about giving peace people everyone involved advanced warning that I'm 449 00:25:03,280 --> 00:25:06,719 Speaker 1: com or forgetting to tell someone at all, and then 450 00:25:06,720 --> 00:25:08,320 Speaker 1: I get home and they go, wait, you were in 451 00:25:08,359 --> 00:25:08,960 Speaker 1: my city. 452 00:25:08,880 --> 00:25:09,480 Speaker 2: Ye tell me. 453 00:25:09,520 --> 00:25:11,480 Speaker 1: And it's not at all that I'm trying to avoid 454 00:25:11,560 --> 00:25:14,560 Speaker 1: them or like, you know, I literally was just like 455 00:25:15,119 --> 00:25:17,920 Speaker 1: everything was frantic right up till the moment we got 456 00:25:17,920 --> 00:25:21,240 Speaker 1: on the plane, and then I don't know, my brain 457 00:25:21,320 --> 00:25:24,360 Speaker 1: fell out. I didn't remember, and I feel like a jerk, 458 00:25:24,359 --> 00:25:26,480 Speaker 1: and I'm sorry this has happened to me too. 459 00:25:26,720 --> 00:25:26,920 Speaker 2: Now. 460 00:25:26,960 --> 00:25:30,159 Speaker 1: I'm also very lucky because I have a lot of 461 00:25:30,200 --> 00:25:32,920 Speaker 1: friends who get that, and they'll be like, no, it's cool. 462 00:25:32,960 --> 00:25:35,480 Speaker 1: I just presume like next time around, we'll do something 463 00:25:35,520 --> 00:25:38,240 Speaker 1: like it's fine. I do the same thing, and I'm like, yeah, 464 00:25:38,240 --> 00:25:43,560 Speaker 1: but the idea of sending around a calling card to 465 00:25:43,680 --> 00:25:46,600 Speaker 1: everyone to let them know when I'm traveling is like, oh, 466 00:25:47,359 --> 00:25:52,760 Speaker 1: by her law, our friendship has been over multiple times. Yeah, 467 00:25:52,880 --> 00:25:53,840 Speaker 1: multiple times. 468 00:25:54,160 --> 00:26:03,520 Speaker 2: Yeah. 469 00:26:04,160 --> 00:26:06,840 Speaker 1: One thing that I had marked to talk about in 470 00:26:06,840 --> 00:26:11,359 Speaker 1: this behind the scenes is there are some sample menus 471 00:26:11,760 --> 00:26:14,159 Speaker 1: at the end of National Capital Code of Etiquette. 472 00:26:15,160 --> 00:26:15,480 Speaker 2: Note. 473 00:26:15,600 --> 00:26:18,760 Speaker 1: The following are appropriate menus for breakfast, lunch, and dinner, 474 00:26:18,800 --> 00:26:22,320 Speaker 1: and sufficiently elaborate for most occasions. They may be varied 475 00:26:22,320 --> 00:26:26,959 Speaker 1: to suit the taste and purse of the hostess. Breakfast 476 00:26:27,400 --> 00:26:32,240 Speaker 1: grapefruit cereal with cream, shirt eggs. Those are baked eggs, 477 00:26:32,400 --> 00:26:37,879 Speaker 1: broiled lamb shops, hot rolls, buttered toast, French fried potatoes, coffee. 478 00:26:39,000 --> 00:26:41,960 Speaker 1: The idea of French fried potatoes for breakfast. I liked 479 00:26:41,960 --> 00:26:44,879 Speaker 1: that a lot. I like sometimes when you're at a 480 00:26:44,880 --> 00:26:47,720 Speaker 1: hotel and the hotel breakfast includes hash browns that are 481 00:26:47,760 --> 00:26:50,760 Speaker 1: really tater tots. And that's what reminded me of that. Oh, 482 00:26:50,840 --> 00:26:52,280 Speaker 1: do you know what it makes me think of? What 483 00:26:52,320 --> 00:26:56,840 Speaker 1: does it make you think of? The often served in California, 484 00:26:57,240 --> 00:27:02,080 Speaker 1: the California breakfast burrito, which often has se yeaheah, yeah, 485 00:27:02,200 --> 00:27:10,080 Speaker 1: bring it on, lunch, hotter, cold, consume and cups, salted wafers, olives, 486 00:27:10,200 --> 00:27:16,120 Speaker 1: India relish, Saratoga chips, lobster ela, newburg, cold meats with potato, salad, orange, sherbet, 487 00:27:16,840 --> 00:27:20,800 Speaker 1: small cakes, coffee. I had to look up what Saratoga 488 00:27:20,920 --> 00:27:26,240 Speaker 1: chips were. That is a potato chip, but a black 489 00:27:26,280 --> 00:27:32,919 Speaker 1: owned business still exists today. Dinner oysters served on the 490 00:27:32,920 --> 00:27:36,400 Speaker 1: half shell, cream of tomato, soup, mixed pickles, salted wafers, 491 00:27:36,520 --> 00:27:41,280 Speaker 1: chow chow, broiled black bass, small potatoes, roast chicken or turkey, 492 00:27:41,359 --> 00:27:45,760 Speaker 1: mashed potatoes, green beans, corn fritters, tomatoes, lettuce, and asparagus. 493 00:27:45,800 --> 00:27:49,680 Speaker 1: Tips served ice with mayonnaise, ice cream, layer cake, candies, 494 00:27:49,800 --> 00:27:53,240 Speaker 1: raisin snuts, and coffee. I love that there is coffee 495 00:27:53,280 --> 00:27:57,119 Speaker 1: at every meal. Yes please, I don't know. I just 496 00:27:57,200 --> 00:28:00,720 Speaker 1: I found these menus delightful. I love reading them. I 497 00:28:00,760 --> 00:28:03,520 Speaker 1: loved googling. I was like, what is sarah Tooga chips? 498 00:28:03,560 --> 00:28:09,720 Speaker 1: Googling what that was? So yeah, yeah, there are of course, 499 00:28:09,800 --> 00:28:12,080 Speaker 1: many many other etiquette manuals. I don't know if at 500 00:28:12,080 --> 00:28:13,960 Speaker 1: some point in the future there will be another six 501 00:28:14,000 --> 00:28:18,960 Speaker 1: Impossible episodes. Installments of etiquette books, but this one was 502 00:28:19,000 --> 00:28:22,280 Speaker 1: a fun one to put together and interesting to see how, 503 00:28:23,359 --> 00:28:26,440 Speaker 1: even though he did not actually coin the use of 504 00:28:26,480 --> 00:28:32,679 Speaker 1: the word etiquette in English, how much Philip Stanhope, the 505 00:28:32,720 --> 00:28:37,000 Speaker 1: fourth Earl of Chesterfield like went on to influence is 506 00:28:37,040 --> 00:28:42,280 Speaker 1: the icon of it. Yeah, I think his name came up, 507 00:28:42,800 --> 00:28:46,200 Speaker 1: if not in every other book that I read after 508 00:28:46,240 --> 00:28:48,160 Speaker 1: that point, or almost all of them. 509 00:28:48,400 --> 00:28:49,920 Speaker 2: So yeah, I want to. 510 00:28:49,920 --> 00:28:53,760 Speaker 1: Give a shout out to Ghiovanni Delakaza for making the 511 00:28:53,840 --> 00:28:56,360 Speaker 1: case to like stop at the puns of the dad jokes. 512 00:28:57,320 --> 00:29:00,640 Speaker 1: I intentionally put this in the episode because you and 513 00:29:00,680 --> 00:29:03,640 Speaker 1: I have had some conversations about the puns and the 514 00:29:03,720 --> 00:29:07,200 Speaker 1: dad jays. Here's the thing. Other people love them. You 515 00:29:07,280 --> 00:29:09,800 Speaker 1: keep telling them, I just please leave me out of it. 516 00:29:09,880 --> 00:29:15,240 Speaker 1: I don't know, I am. I have a short I 517 00:29:15,280 --> 00:29:17,480 Speaker 1: don't know if it's an attention span or a short 518 00:29:17,520 --> 00:29:22,920 Speaker 1: patience level of like memy jokes that get told over 519 00:29:23,000 --> 00:29:26,920 Speaker 1: and over and puns like basically anything that someone is 520 00:29:26,960 --> 00:29:30,360 Speaker 1: like at the end, you picture them going tadah with 521 00:29:30,440 --> 00:29:33,840 Speaker 1: a jazz hand like acknowledge the cleverness, and I'm like no, 522 00:29:34,080 --> 00:29:36,200 Speaker 1: And if I see a meme twice I'm done. Please don't. 523 00:29:36,200 --> 00:29:38,920 Speaker 1: I don't want to see it again. I sound so mean, 524 00:29:38,960 --> 00:29:41,080 Speaker 1: but like, I just hate when that same iteration of 525 00:29:41,080 --> 00:29:44,360 Speaker 1: a thing ripples through social media and everyone thinks they 526 00:29:44,360 --> 00:29:46,680 Speaker 1: are very witty for telling the same joke that's been 527 00:29:46,680 --> 00:29:49,560 Speaker 1: going around for a week, and I'm like, no, you're 528 00:29:49,600 --> 00:29:51,719 Speaker 1: wasting to come up with something else witty. You're smart, 529 00:29:52,440 --> 00:29:56,920 Speaker 1: So thank you jew money. I'm with you. I also thought, 530 00:29:57,000 --> 00:30:01,479 Speaker 1: I mean, obviously extravagant is not vulgar in my opinion, 531 00:30:01,520 --> 00:30:03,360 Speaker 1: It's kind and it's a way to show somebody that 532 00:30:03,400 --> 00:30:05,600 Speaker 1: they took extraordinary care of you and you appreciate it. 533 00:30:05,920 --> 00:30:08,920 Speaker 1: I just feel that's important. Yeah, I believe in tipping 534 00:30:09,000 --> 00:30:12,000 Speaker 1: as well as you possibly can, because yes, everyone knows 535 00:30:12,000 --> 00:30:14,520 Speaker 1: the system is a mess and servers don't get paid right, 536 00:30:14,600 --> 00:30:18,040 Speaker 1: and that is messed up, but it is the system 537 00:30:18,080 --> 00:30:20,960 Speaker 1: we live in. As I think about reservoir dogs when 538 00:30:21,000 --> 00:30:22,640 Speaker 1: mister Pink is like, you put it to a vote, 539 00:30:22,640 --> 00:30:24,200 Speaker 1: and I'll vote for it. But what I won't do 540 00:30:24,280 --> 00:30:25,880 Speaker 1: is playball. I will play ball. 541 00:30:25,960 --> 00:30:26,400 Speaker 2: I want. 542 00:30:26,520 --> 00:30:28,040 Speaker 1: I want to take care of those people all the time, 543 00:30:28,080 --> 00:30:29,880 Speaker 1: because they take care of me and my ballooney and 544 00:30:29,920 --> 00:30:35,080 Speaker 1: my leg. Please make me an absent drink as the coda, though, 545 00:30:35,200 --> 00:30:37,720 Speaker 1: I had a sense memory that made me giggle while 546 00:30:37,720 --> 00:30:40,840 Speaker 1: we were recording where we were talking about don't keep 547 00:30:40,920 --> 00:30:45,520 Speaker 1: saying the person's name over and over in the Post thing, 548 00:30:45,960 --> 00:30:48,920 Speaker 1: and I had this instant flash to a very old 549 00:30:49,000 --> 00:30:53,720 Speaker 1: episode of The Oprah Winfrey Show when Tyra Banks was 550 00:30:53,760 --> 00:30:57,840 Speaker 1: on it and she was talking about how she has 551 00:30:57,880 --> 00:31:01,520 Speaker 1: a lot of trouble dating, and it kind of echoed 552 00:31:01,560 --> 00:31:04,400 Speaker 1: this to me because she was saying, like, you realize 553 00:31:04,880 --> 00:31:08,040 Speaker 1: halfway into the date that, Like, I'm probably misquoting all 554 00:31:08,040 --> 00:31:09,960 Speaker 1: of this, this is a memory from like twenty five 555 00:31:10,040 --> 00:31:13,200 Speaker 1: years ago, how she would always realize halfway into the 556 00:31:13,280 --> 00:31:15,480 Speaker 1: date that they were dating her, not because they thought 557 00:31:15,480 --> 00:31:18,360 Speaker 1: she was interesting or smart or witty, but because of 558 00:31:18,400 --> 00:31:20,240 Speaker 1: who she was and how she knew was that they 559 00:31:20,240 --> 00:31:23,280 Speaker 1: would always call her Tyra Banks. Like they would be like, 560 00:31:23,360 --> 00:31:25,320 Speaker 1: what do you want for dessert? Tyra Banks, and she'd 561 00:31:25,360 --> 00:31:28,280 Speaker 1: be like, oh, my goodness, I mean, yes, that's my name, 562 00:31:28,320 --> 00:31:34,000 Speaker 1: but I And it just gave me such a flashback 563 00:31:34,080 --> 00:31:37,800 Speaker 1: to when Emily Post is saying don't say the don't 564 00:31:37,840 --> 00:31:40,520 Speaker 1: take a name over and over, and I was like, 565 00:31:40,600 --> 00:31:43,320 Speaker 1: oh yeah, because it will make them feel potentially used, 566 00:31:43,440 --> 00:31:47,920 Speaker 1: which is an interesting yeah, an interesting take. Make everyone comfortable. 567 00:31:48,000 --> 00:31:52,720 Speaker 1: That's all you gotta do. Yep, that's my feeling. Try 568 00:31:52,760 --> 00:31:58,320 Speaker 1: not to be a jerk, Try not to bother other people. Definitely, 569 00:31:58,360 --> 00:32:00,720 Speaker 1: stop taking pictures of strangers and them on the internet 570 00:32:00,800 --> 00:32:01,480 Speaker 1: to make fun of them. 571 00:32:01,920 --> 00:32:02,240 Speaker 2: Nothing. 572 00:32:02,360 --> 00:32:04,920 Speaker 1: I have not seen a viral picture of a stranger 573 00:32:04,960 --> 00:32:06,480 Speaker 1: on the internet lately, But every time I do, it 574 00:32:06,520 --> 00:32:08,840 Speaker 1: bothers me so much. And oh yeah, because it's horrible 575 00:32:10,080 --> 00:32:14,120 Speaker 1: privacy and it's mean. Yeah, yeah, there's no reason. 576 00:32:14,160 --> 00:32:14,440 Speaker 2: Listen. 577 00:32:14,480 --> 00:32:18,880 Speaker 1: I'm a firm believer that stuff comes back to bite you. Yeah, 578 00:32:19,000 --> 00:32:21,920 Speaker 1: it always does, whether something happens with that picture and 579 00:32:21,960 --> 00:32:23,960 Speaker 1: a person is like, hey, by the way, that's my 580 00:32:24,920 --> 00:32:27,320 Speaker 1: you know, beloved family member, et cetera, And now you 581 00:32:27,400 --> 00:32:31,440 Speaker 1: are an a greade, a jerk and everybody knows it 582 00:32:31,920 --> 00:32:34,360 Speaker 1: or it I mean, that energy will bite you on 583 00:32:34,400 --> 00:32:37,160 Speaker 1: the button. Someday you're somebody's picture of like, look at 584 00:32:37,160 --> 00:32:39,840 Speaker 1: this ding dong who doesn't know how to act right? Right? 585 00:32:40,240 --> 00:32:46,120 Speaker 2: Don't do it just to everybody, be nice? Yeah, yes, yeah, yeah. 586 00:32:45,880 --> 00:32:48,440 Speaker 1: Don't call out when people drop their berries. It's fine. No, 587 00:32:52,400 --> 00:32:55,480 Speaker 1: are you haunted by the ghosts of your social mistakes. Yes, 588 00:32:55,760 --> 00:32:58,160 Speaker 1: yes I am, and so that is why we will 589 00:32:58,320 --> 00:33:05,280 Speaker 1: end behind the scenes a happy Friday. I hope if 590 00:33:05,320 --> 00:33:08,200 Speaker 1: you are working with folks, if you are working with 591 00:33:08,520 --> 00:33:11,840 Speaker 1: the public out in society this weekend, I hope everyone 592 00:33:12,320 --> 00:33:16,040 Speaker 1: has some good manners in talking to you, and I 593 00:33:16,080 --> 00:33:19,480 Speaker 1: hope everyone has good manners with everyone. Really, you know, 594 00:33:19,640 --> 00:33:23,320 Speaker 1: as much as you're able, try not to be intentionally 595 00:33:23,640 --> 00:33:27,760 Speaker 1: cruel or mean or rude to anyone. We'll be back 596 00:33:27,960 --> 00:33:33,080 Speaker 1: with a Saturday Classic tomorrow, something brand new on Monday. 597 00:33:34,000 --> 00:33:36,720 Speaker 1: And now I will go try to recover from the 598 00:33:36,720 --> 00:33:45,440 Speaker 1: ghosts of my past missteps. Stuff you missed in History 599 00:33:45,480 --> 00:33:49,840 Speaker 1: Class is a production of iHeartRadio. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, 600 00:33:50,000 --> 00:33:53,560 Speaker 1: visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen 601 00:33:53,640 --> 00:33:54,640 Speaker 1: to your favorite shows.