WEBVTT - Mulling over Maggots 0:00:00.160 --> 0:00:04.440 Yeah, welcome to Stuff from the Science Lab from how 0:00:04.480 --> 0:00:18.080 stuff works dot com. Hey, guys, welcome to the podcast. 0:00:18.120 --> 0:00:20.120 This is Alison I don't know, the science editor at 0:00:20.120 --> 0:00:22.800 how stuff works dot com. And this is Robert Lamb, 0:00:23.040 --> 0:00:26.520 science rider at how stuff works dot com. And today's 0:00:26.840 --> 0:00:29.440 podcast we're talking about maggots. All right, Maybe you listen 0:00:29.480 --> 0:00:31.200 to our last podcast. We're kind of on a role 0:00:31.320 --> 0:00:37.040 with perhaps animals that people consider not so attractive. Yeah, 0:00:37.120 --> 0:00:39.240 would be grossed out by. Yeah, we were going to 0:00:39.320 --> 0:00:44.159 do one podcast about both maggots and leeches, but each bloodsucker. Um, 0:00:44.479 --> 0:00:46.960 and they're not both blood suckers, but be each creature 0:00:47.400 --> 0:00:49.279 turned out to be interesting enough in its own right 0:00:49.320 --> 0:00:52.280 to deserve its own podcast, right, And and maggots, I 0:00:52.320 --> 0:00:54.840 have to say I've I've softened a little bit towards 0:00:54.880 --> 0:00:57.280 towards maggots just because they are so vital. You know 0:00:57.360 --> 0:00:59.639 what it was. It was the podcast we did on composting, 0:00:59.640 --> 0:01:01.360 which is one of my favorite ones that we've done 0:01:01.360 --> 0:01:04.560 so far, And it's just a realization that they're necessary. 0:01:05.040 --> 0:01:07.520 And Okay, so I can prove to you that my 0:01:07.560 --> 0:01:10.120 attitude has changed towards maggots because in fact, we had 0:01:10.160 --> 0:01:13.280 a trash incident. Oh yeah, you had some maggots at 0:01:13.280 --> 0:01:16.280 the house. We keep our trash outside. There was a 0:01:16.319 --> 0:01:18.600 period where unfortunately the trash did not get to go out, 0:01:18.640 --> 0:01:21.280 and you know, some stuff was was born in that 0:01:21.840 --> 0:01:25.520 in that short time span, and I unfortunately opened the 0:01:25.560 --> 0:01:27.640 lid to the trash can, and of course I saw 0:01:28.720 --> 0:01:31.440 all the all the maggots. It was a little bit traumatic, 0:01:31.520 --> 0:01:35.200 but it wasn't as traumatic had it been, you know, 0:01:35.280 --> 0:01:38.240 before the composting podcast. I think I don't know if 0:01:38.280 --> 0:01:39.960 I was ever really grossed out, but like you know, 0:01:40.000 --> 0:01:42.399 as a kid, you know, I kind of lived in 0:01:42.440 --> 0:01:45.320 the country and we would keen into maggots. No, but 0:01:45.360 --> 0:01:47.319 there would be like dead animals and you'd see some 0:01:47.319 --> 0:01:48.920 something crawling around in it, and you know, it was 0:01:49.000 --> 0:01:53.520 just it was yeah, and I know and and I mean, 0:01:53.720 --> 0:01:56.840 I guess having watched a fair amount of horror, like 0:01:56.880 --> 0:01:59.840 occasionally maggots will show up. But the most amusing thing 0:01:59.880 --> 0:02:02.680 is like sometimes like really cheap productions, they couldn't actually 0:02:02.720 --> 0:02:05.240 get maggots, I guess, which seems like I don't know, 0:02:05.240 --> 0:02:06.840 it seems like, yeah, I just think ahead and put 0:02:06.880 --> 0:02:08.720 some meat out, you know, and then pick them out 0:02:08.720 --> 0:02:10.520 with tweezers, right, but I don't know. It's like they 0:02:10.520 --> 0:02:13.000 will get some other type of worm to pretend to 0:02:13.000 --> 0:02:16.080 be maggots. So like if you've ever seen maggots, you're like, 0:02:16.080 --> 0:02:18.480 those aren't baggots, sort of like there's some sort of 0:02:18.520 --> 0:02:21.240 earthworm or something, you know, and then they'll use like 0:02:21.240 --> 0:02:22.960 a sound effect for the worm to make it sound 0:02:23.000 --> 0:02:26.280 sound like they're yelling or something. I don't know any rate. Um, 0:02:26.400 --> 0:02:29.120 you know, we're talking about maggot therapy, maggot therapy to 0:02:29.240 --> 0:02:31.800 get on track, and you know, in a world where 0:02:31.880 --> 0:02:34.960 public image counts a lot, maggot therapy is one therapy 0:02:35.000 --> 0:02:37.960 that really suffered a fall, but it's starting to come 0:02:37.960 --> 0:02:41.880 back in Triumph. Yeah, though it does still doesn't sound good, 0:02:42.040 --> 0:02:44.040 Like I think they need out like a snazzier name 0:02:44.120 --> 0:02:46.959 for it. Well there are. I think some people call 0:02:47.000 --> 0:02:51.040 it um larval therapy. That sounds a lot better. Um, 0:02:51.080 --> 0:02:55.440 there's a more technical name. I think maggot debridemant therapy, 0:02:55.560 --> 0:02:59.359 debriding just meaning the removal of dead tissue. I still 0:02:59.400 --> 0:03:03.320 don't think that's a you good seller. Yeah, right right, 0:03:03.320 --> 0:03:04.959 you gotta get rid of the maggot in the title 0:03:05.000 --> 0:03:07.320 if you want to do an elevator pitch and sell 0:03:07.360 --> 0:03:10.760 your therapy to a million dollar venture capitalists. So anyway, 0:03:10.800 --> 0:03:15.400 back in the nineties, when antibatics first came onto the 0:03:15.400 --> 0:03:17.760 medicinal scene, maggots, you know, that's really when they fell 0:03:17.760 --> 0:03:20.320 out of favor. I mean, who's gonna want, you know, 0:03:20.400 --> 0:03:24.080 a little grub, a larval fly to be you know, 0:03:24.120 --> 0:03:26.400 investigating your wounds when you can just popping anti batic. 0:03:27.639 --> 0:03:31.840 And so they're back now and they're hungry. So okay, 0:03:31.919 --> 0:03:33.720 what's a maggot again? You guys know this, but for 0:03:33.760 --> 0:03:36.080 the sake of it, we'll just go over it real fast. It's, 0:03:36.200 --> 0:03:39.000 you know, a soft bodied, legless grub. It's a larva 0:03:39.040 --> 0:03:41.400 of a dip terrorist insect. In other words, it's a 0:03:41.440 --> 0:03:45.120 fly larva. It's an immature fly. Okay, here's something that 0:03:45.160 --> 0:03:46.880 I came across. And there's all some sorts of good 0:03:46.880 --> 0:03:49.080 stuff that we come across while we're researching this podcast, 0:03:49.080 --> 0:03:50.840 and we give as much of that research as we 0:03:50.840 --> 0:03:54.400 can to you guys. But the second definition of maggot 0:03:54.480 --> 0:03:58.280 is a fantastic or eccentric idea. I've never heard of 0:03:58.280 --> 0:03:59.800 that either, but I like the idea of you have 0:03:59.880 --> 0:04:01.720 you using it more like, you know, like we'll come 0:04:01.800 --> 0:04:04.480 up to um, you know, your editor in chief. Yeah, 0:04:04.480 --> 0:04:06.120 we'll be like, hey, con I got aa roll maggot 0:04:06.160 --> 0:04:08.200 here for you. But what do you say we do 0:04:08.480 --> 0:04:13.840 an entire article about, you know, something about um. You know, 0:04:13.880 --> 0:04:17.560 I think you would totally roll with it. So what 0:04:17.640 --> 0:04:21.240 are you used? What are maggots used for in maggot therapy? Well, 0:04:21.279 --> 0:04:23.679 as it turns out, we have a pretty good article 0:04:23.680 --> 0:04:26.720 on that's written by freelancer Tom Chef, and mainly it's 0:04:26.760 --> 0:04:29.200 it's cleaning wounds. It's kind of like they like to 0:04:29.200 --> 0:04:31.720 eat really gross flesh stuff, and so if you're in 0:04:31.760 --> 0:04:33.919 a situation we're like, hey, what are we gonna do 0:04:33.960 --> 0:04:36.480 with this gross fleshy stuff we need removed? Hey you 0:04:36.520 --> 0:04:39.240 guys want to eat it? Hop on? You know. Well, 0:04:39.279 --> 0:04:42.600 in particularly, they have a predilection for for dead tissue. Yeah, 0:04:42.720 --> 0:04:46.000 they're really good at removing dead tissue and unless things 0:04:46.040 --> 0:04:48.400 get out of hand, like they're pretty good about like 0:04:48.560 --> 0:04:51.640 just eat the dead sticking to the dead tissue. Yeah yeah, 0:04:52.080 --> 0:04:55.479 that's perfect. Yeah. Yeah, So what kind of wouldn't trust 0:04:55.560 --> 0:04:58.479 like a like a buzzard with that? You know? Heck, now, 0:04:58.640 --> 0:05:00.839 like hey, guys just pick it the the rotten stuff, 0:05:00.839 --> 0:05:02.440 but leave the rest of the leg alone, and they'd 0:05:02.440 --> 0:05:07.240 be like, oh yeah sure. So. Um. In particular, they 0:05:07.240 --> 0:05:10.280 come in handy. Magot therapy comes in handy for traumatic 0:05:10.360 --> 0:05:13.159 or post surgical wounds that just won't heal. Um. But 0:05:13.279 --> 0:05:16.200 important note to doctors here considering this UM, I was 0:05:16.279 --> 0:05:19.120 reading that wounds with tunnels are kind of hiding spots 0:05:19.160 --> 0:05:22.279 for the maggots aren't necessarily good candidates for this particular 0:05:22.320 --> 0:05:25.000 kind of therapy. Also important note to doctors if you're 0:05:25.000 --> 0:05:28.120 listening to our podcast and using that to decide how 0:05:28.120 --> 0:05:30.839 are you going to treat your patients, just really reconsider 0:05:30.880 --> 0:05:34.960 how you're going about things. Also interesting was I found 0:05:35.000 --> 0:05:38.159 that there's a very small steady uh participants were number 0:05:38.279 --> 0:05:41.120 thirteen in all, and I found that people with mrs 0:05:41.200 --> 0:05:44.640 A contaminated wounds were cured using nothing but maggots. Okay, 0:05:44.640 --> 0:05:47.200 and m r s A. Of course, Um, that's the 0:05:47.240 --> 0:05:50.920 type of infection that's resistant to certain antibiotics. So that 0:05:50.960 --> 0:05:54.000 would be you know, a big deal, especially when this 0:05:54.080 --> 0:05:57.040 is like when somebody gets like an antibiotic resistant staff 0:05:57.080 --> 0:05:59.480 infection type of thing, going yes, yes, yeah, that is 0:05:59.520 --> 0:06:01.760 exactly what m R. S A is. So, so it 0:06:01.800 --> 0:06:04.039 would prove handy in that case, and a lot of 0:06:04.040 --> 0:06:05.719 times that megat therapy is going to come in handy 0:06:05.760 --> 0:06:08.400 when you have stuff like ulcers. And oddly enough, these 0:06:08.480 --> 0:06:12.560 ulcers mainly are are located on your lower extremities. So 0:06:12.640 --> 0:06:15.880 there's one called a venus stasis ulcer. Now this one 0:06:15.920 --> 0:06:17.800 is that this is the one correct move if I'm wrong, 0:06:17.839 --> 0:06:19.640 But it's kind of like if I'm standing in one 0:06:19.640 --> 0:06:21.040 place for a while and I feel like I need 0:06:21.040 --> 0:06:23.520 to shift to move around. It might be because I 0:06:23.560 --> 0:06:25.320 had too much coffee, but it could be because, like 0:06:25.360 --> 0:06:27.560 my body is telling the neuropathic foot ulcer and we 0:06:27.600 --> 0:06:29.680 will get to that in a second. That's nerve damage. 0:06:30.120 --> 0:06:32.480 Uh No, So the venus stasis ulcer is. You're gonna 0:06:32.480 --> 0:06:34.599 find these below in the knee, especially in the niche, 0:06:34.839 --> 0:06:38.240 that tiny little cute niche just above the ankle. And 0:06:38.240 --> 0:06:41.239 and they're common in patients who have medical charts filled 0:06:41.240 --> 0:06:44.560 with stuff like leg smelling and vericous veins or you 0:06:44.600 --> 0:06:46.839 know a history of blood clots in the in the 0:06:46.920 --> 0:06:50.479 leg veins. You were jumping the gun. But yes, indeed, 0:06:50.520 --> 0:06:55.040 the neuropathic foot ulcer is also a candidate for maggot therapy. 0:06:55.520 --> 0:06:57.159 And for the love of God, I know you will, 0:06:57.240 --> 0:07:00.920 but don't link these up in Google images. It is. Oh, 0:07:01.760 --> 0:07:03.520 that's tough. When it's stuck with me, it's steared in 0:07:03.560 --> 0:07:06.560 my brain. The neuropathic foot ulcer that if you, if 0:07:06.600 --> 0:07:08.120 you have one of these, by all means, take a 0:07:08.160 --> 0:07:10.080 picture of it and send it to it. Like somebody 0:07:10.080 --> 0:07:14.480 didn't their feet with the hood feline hookworms. The person 0:07:14.560 --> 0:07:18.679 sent us a photo canine hookwar canine hookworms in human feet. 0:07:18.760 --> 0:07:21.360 I can still picture that was a cool picture. Yeah, 0:07:21.680 --> 0:07:23.679 I can still see it too. It's burned into my mind. 0:07:25.040 --> 0:07:27.720 So these neuropathic foot ulcers, like you can probably guess 0:07:27.760 --> 0:07:30.840 these occurred to Jude to nerve damage and um. Like 0:07:30.960 --> 0:07:33.760 Robert was getting at, having intec nerves is a pretty 0:07:33.760 --> 0:07:36.320 handy thing. We like. We all like having intec nerves. 0:07:36.720 --> 0:07:38.800 You know, it helps us tell you when to shift 0:07:38.800 --> 0:07:41.120 position if you're standing on your feet, the nerves and 0:07:41.160 --> 0:07:44.280 your your lower extremities. And if you lose that information, 0:07:44.280 --> 0:07:46.160 then you're gonna lose awareness as to what's going on 0:07:46.240 --> 0:07:49.400 down there, right, and you can have some crazy things 0:07:49.720 --> 0:07:52.240 start happening to your feet. Maybe you get some cuts, 0:07:52.280 --> 0:07:54.520 they appear and you don't notice, maybe get a blister 0:07:54.600 --> 0:07:56.360 you don't notice, and it just gets you know, it 0:07:56.400 --> 0:07:59.320 starts festering, and they progress and they progress, and then 0:07:59.440 --> 0:08:02.680 you have serious infection on your hands, which leads us 0:08:02.720 --> 0:08:06.760 to the next kind of ulcer that Maggot therapy is 0:08:06.760 --> 0:08:09.040 is being used for. And these are called pressure ulcers 0:08:09.040 --> 0:08:11.200 ak a bed soyces. Yeah, these are the ones you 0:08:11.200 --> 0:08:14.120 get if you your laid up for a while. Yeah, 0:08:14.120 --> 0:08:18.160 And pressure ulcers also affect another population that's not bedridden, 0:08:18.320 --> 0:08:23.440 and that would be diabetics. So a little little known 0:08:23.480 --> 0:08:27.960 to me, diabetics and ulcers are have a pretty significant history. 0:08:28.360 --> 0:08:30.280 Well I I was familiar with, you know, like some 0:08:30.360 --> 0:08:32.400 a lot of times diabetics and up having to go 0:08:32.440 --> 0:08:37.480 in for amputation. Right. Well, so chronic conditions like diabetes 0:08:37.520 --> 0:08:40.800 are different vascular diseases. They mess up your circulation, they 0:08:40.840 --> 0:08:43.760 mess up your blood flow, and um, well, we'll get 0:08:43.760 --> 0:08:46.320 to the maggot diabetic thing in a sec. But let's 0:08:46.320 --> 0:08:48.640 talk about this pressure ulcer just so we can get 0:08:48.640 --> 0:08:51.040 into the maggot therapy. What's happening. We're gonna walk you 0:08:51.080 --> 0:08:54.880 through the steps involved in a pressure ulcer starts off. 0:08:54.960 --> 0:08:57.480 It's a red spot on your skin. Press on it, 0:08:57.520 --> 0:08:59.880 maybe it doesn't turn white, so maybe you know some 0:09:00.000 --> 0:09:01.800 things up, but you probably don't notice it. This is 0:09:01.880 --> 0:09:05.520 stage one of the pressure ulcer. Next up, you get 0:09:05.559 --> 0:09:08.720 your open sore going on and the areas around the store. 0:09:08.840 --> 0:09:11.280 They start to start to get a little angry, you know, 0:09:12.600 --> 0:09:15.679 the ulcer starts to spread its madness. And next comes 0:09:15.760 --> 0:09:19.000 the crater. And this is pretty much um. You know, 0:09:19.040 --> 0:09:22.120 you can kind of see a crater in your skin 0:09:22.240 --> 0:09:28.000 where the tissue has started to to break down and 0:09:28.040 --> 0:09:30.280 go to heck basically, and this is when you need 0:09:30.320 --> 0:09:33.959 to spend in the maggots. Well, eventually, pressure ulcers escalate 0:09:34.000 --> 0:09:36.040 to the point that they become so deep that of 0:09:36.080 --> 0:09:38.360 course they damage surrounding muscle and bone, and they can 0:09:38.400 --> 0:09:41.760 even spread to tendons and joints. And yes, this is 0:09:41.840 --> 0:09:44.200 this is when the magot therapy might be called in. 0:09:44.880 --> 0:09:47.640 And before that, a lot of people only have the 0:09:47.640 --> 0:09:50.280 option of amputation. You know, the infection got so bad 0:09:50.320 --> 0:09:52.800 that you're faced with, well, we have to amputate that 0:09:53.120 --> 0:09:56.000 that leg, the toe, the foot. Yeah, because what you 0:09:56.280 --> 0:09:59.280 all you have are these big surgical devices and what 0:09:59.320 --> 0:10:01.600 you need is a little bitty surgeon or a team 0:10:01.679 --> 0:10:05.760 of little bitty surgeons right to go in maggots. Indeed, yeah, 0:10:05.840 --> 0:10:08.120 and it's a pretty it is a pretty significant problem 0:10:08.160 --> 0:10:10.400 for diabetics once you consider that there are twenty three 0:10:10.400 --> 0:10:13.679 million in the United States according to the American Diabetes Association, 0:10:14.120 --> 0:10:17.200 and you're looking about seventy thousand amputations uh diet for 0:10:17.320 --> 0:10:20.720 diabetics occurring every year according to the Centers for Disease 0:10:20.760 --> 0:10:25.480 Control and Prevention. A lot do you like your face? 0:10:25.559 --> 0:10:27.320 Do you like having all your body parts right? As 0:10:27.360 --> 0:10:30.640 we discussed in the Prosthetics podcast, I do like my 0:10:30.679 --> 0:10:33.400 limbs and right right. So a lot of us, I 0:10:33.400 --> 0:10:36.199 would imagine, would be interested in avoiding amputation. Apart from 0:10:36.200 --> 0:10:39.959 that one special group of people. Do you remember that 0:10:40.840 --> 0:10:46.040 the actively stick in ahead though, well, there there, there, 0:10:46.200 --> 0:10:49.319 they have problems. Yes, yes, they do have problems. Um. 0:10:49.440 --> 0:10:51.680 So anyway, we get these people who are faced with 0:10:51.720 --> 0:10:54.599 amputation or or what well, as it turns out, or 0:10:54.640 --> 0:10:58.600 maggot therapy and really important note that I think we 0:10:58.600 --> 0:11:01.640 should emphasize here it's not a is to replace existing therapies, 0:11:01.720 --> 0:11:04.120 like You're not gonna maggots are never going to take 0:11:04.120 --> 0:11:05.680 the place of surgery. They're never going to take the 0:11:05.679 --> 0:11:07.800 place of antibiotics. Yeah, this isn't like some sort of 0:11:07.880 --> 0:11:11.360 quack technique where it's like like we really wish that, 0:11:11.640 --> 0:11:13.559 you know, Mary would go to an actual doctor, but 0:11:13.640 --> 0:11:16.480 she's going to that maggot physician. No, it's it's it's 0:11:16.559 --> 0:11:19.800 not a first line defense. And another thing is that 0:11:19.840 --> 0:11:21.760 when we were researching this podcast, I happen to find 0:11:21.760 --> 0:11:25.280 out that there's a substance called hydrogels and they're capable 0:11:25.360 --> 0:11:27.679 of performing a lot of the functions that maggots can 0:11:27.720 --> 0:11:31.160 do in maggot therapy. So and some of the research 0:11:31.200 --> 0:11:34.480 seemed to indicate that hydrogels and maggot therapy had about 0:11:35.280 --> 0:11:39.520 equally effective utility. And and you know, so hydrogels are 0:11:39.520 --> 0:11:42.200 without the maggots, so people very well might opt for those. 0:11:43.600 --> 0:11:47.520 But let's get into the process. Let's let's release the maggots, 0:11:47.520 --> 0:11:50.439 shall we. Okay, So, yeah, so we've got this putrid 0:11:50.520 --> 0:11:53.839 area that needs a clean up. We've got some some 0:11:53.840 --> 0:11:56.120 some dead tissue that needs to be cleared away from 0:11:56.400 --> 0:12:01.120 the live tissue. Yeah, so first that you gotta get 0:12:01.120 --> 0:12:05.000 the maggots. But don't don't go gathering up the maggots yourself. Yeah, 0:12:05.040 --> 0:12:08.480 you want some farm rates, right, don't slather them, you know, 0:12:08.520 --> 0:12:12.280 willy nilly all over the wound. Although I did read 0:12:12.320 --> 0:12:14.680 one one article that said patients could be taught to 0:12:14.720 --> 0:12:17.560 administer this treatment themselves and then when they were done 0:12:17.600 --> 0:12:19.160 with the magaziners, just toss them in the garbage and 0:12:19.200 --> 0:12:24.160 be done with it. Yeah, they probably would would like that, right, Yeah. Um, 0:12:24.280 --> 0:12:26.400 I imagine the danger is that you probably need to 0:12:26.440 --> 0:12:29.160 have a strong stomach. And then of course you could 0:12:29.200 --> 0:12:31.199 get the ratio wrong, because, like we said, there is 0:12:31.240 --> 0:12:33.680 a particular ratio you're looking for, and in fact, the 0:12:33.679 --> 0:12:36.760 general rules thumb is that you're gonna want about eight 0:12:36.800 --> 0:12:39.960 maggots per square centimeter of flesh that you want them 0:12:40.000 --> 0:12:43.760 to consume, otherwise they go a little crazy. Right, Well, 0:12:43.800 --> 0:12:46.880 they're gonna get hungry, right, So you don't want to overpopulate. 0:12:47.160 --> 0:12:50.160 Don't overpopulate. But let's let's get back to the process. 0:12:50.280 --> 0:12:54.760 You gotta have the maggots. Yeah, yeah, So you're gonna 0:12:54.760 --> 0:12:58.920 want to have the maggots, and you want to have again, 0:12:59.000 --> 0:13:01.200 the right maggots because there are a lot of different 0:13:01.200 --> 0:13:03.760 flies in the world and uh, and all of them 0:13:03.760 --> 0:13:08.160 have larva, but you're generally the most favored of variety 0:13:08.240 --> 0:13:10.760 is the green blow fot fly, which is, uh, do 0:13:10.760 --> 0:13:13.800 you want to take a shot at the I was 0:13:13.920 --> 0:13:18.200 gonna give it Phoenicia Sarah Cotta. Sounds actually kind of tasty, 0:13:19.720 --> 0:13:21.840 sounds like an Italian dessert. Yeah. And these are growing 0:13:21.840 --> 0:13:23.880 to get in a lab, in a lab and a 0:13:24.280 --> 0:13:27.280 disease free environment, and they're shipped in a sterile containers, 0:13:27.320 --> 0:13:30.640 probably overnight. Yeah. Alright, so the maggot show up, they're 0:13:30.640 --> 0:13:32.200 ready for business. Well, you've got to have an open 0:13:32.240 --> 0:13:35.600 wound of some sort, and preferably that wound is clean, 0:13:36.960 --> 0:13:39.480 so open water and wash it out, et cetera. Okay, 0:13:39.480 --> 0:13:41.439 so keep part of the process here, because a lot 0:13:41.480 --> 0:13:44.400 of us are not at all cool with maggots just 0:13:44.800 --> 0:13:48.079 you know, wandering around. Our open source is a sedative. 0:13:48.679 --> 0:13:52.000 Often patients who choose to undergo maggot therapy will be 0:13:52.080 --> 0:13:54.440 administered a sedative, a heavy one. Yeah. And when you 0:13:54.440 --> 0:13:56.959 first mentioned this, I was thinking like, oh, these guys 0:13:57.000 --> 0:13:58.400 are kind of WIMPs. They just don't want it, to 0:13:58.920 --> 0:14:00.840 want to feel like they're you know, a little larva 0:14:00.880 --> 0:14:02.320 calling on them. But then the whole thing is that 0:14:02.360 --> 0:14:06.359 they're they're crawling on air and very sensitive areas like inflamed, 0:14:06.440 --> 0:14:08.400 you know, gross areas that you know, So it's like 0:14:08.400 --> 0:14:10.240 pressure on a wound. So of course you don't want 0:14:10.240 --> 0:14:12.720 to feel that, right, They're getting fat off of, you know, 0:14:12.760 --> 0:14:15.720 eating your necrotic tissue, and it's putting pressure on the wound. 0:14:15.720 --> 0:14:19.400 And in fact, patients have reported that maggot therapy can 0:14:19.480 --> 0:14:24.160 be more painful than other kinds of therapy. Interesting, Yeah, 0:14:24.440 --> 0:14:26.520 so I mean you really want to not be aware 0:14:26.520 --> 0:14:29.240 of it, I would think. So the fact that it's hurting, 0:14:30.320 --> 0:14:32.400 you know, and you're you know that there are maggots 0:14:32.400 --> 0:14:34.240 in there, that would that would sort of add But again, 0:14:34.280 --> 0:14:37.440 if you were using vultures, the sedation would have to 0:14:37.440 --> 0:14:40.680 be a lot heavier, right, So so no vultures. Okay, 0:14:40.720 --> 0:14:42.760 So you're gonna add these live maggots to the wound, 0:14:42.800 --> 0:14:46.240 and like with leeches, um, you're gonna gotta you gotta 0:14:46.240 --> 0:14:48.480 steal them off. Yeah, you gotta, you gotta. You don't 0:14:48.520 --> 0:14:51.560 want the running all over the place. You gotta direct 0:14:51.600 --> 0:14:53.960 them to the task. And so you're gonna steal it 0:14:53.960 --> 0:14:55.680 off and then you're going to cover the wound with 0:14:55.720 --> 0:14:57.960 a bandage. To keep it in place. And you can 0:14:58.000 --> 0:15:00.680 also um as opposed, if you're a posed to having 0:15:00.680 --> 0:15:03.560 them kind of crawling freely, you can put them in 0:15:03.600 --> 0:15:06.440 a bio bag or this sealed nylon bag. And of 0:15:06.480 --> 0:15:10.360 course um necessity is the mother of all inventions. So 0:15:10.920 --> 0:15:13.440 there's a company now, Monarch Labs, that's come out with 0:15:13.440 --> 0:15:16.560 a special maggot dressing. It has a nice name too. Yeah, 0:15:16.720 --> 0:15:17.920 I think I think there was some of that in 0:15:17.960 --> 0:15:21.840 the fridge here at work until the name threw it away. Yeah, 0:15:23.440 --> 0:15:26.080 the Paul Newman variety too, so I'm sure it was healthy. 0:15:26.120 --> 0:15:28.280 But you know O right. So this was not salad dressing, 0:15:28.280 --> 0:15:33.480 but rather wound dressing, and it's called love Flap Flap Flap. 0:15:34.000 --> 0:15:36.560 It's a nice French name. Brings an element of class 0:15:36.640 --> 0:15:40.760 to magot therapy which needs a little bit of that. So, 0:15:40.800 --> 0:15:44.120 according to the company, the first pre manufactured cage dressing 0:15:44.160 --> 0:15:46.960 available for the US market. That's what it is. The 0:15:47.040 --> 0:15:50.400 single piece of flap Maggot confinement dressing is intended to 0:15:50.480 --> 0:15:52.960 prevent medicinal maggots from leading the wound before the treatment 0:15:52.960 --> 0:15:56.240 of scheduled to enter and of course reduce the time 0:15:56.280 --> 0:15:59.320 and cost necessary to confine them to the wound. So 0:15:59.560 --> 0:16:01.480 you can look that up over Monarch Labs if you yea, 0:16:01.520 --> 0:16:03.600 are you saying a picture of this, right? I did. Yeah. 0:16:03.720 --> 0:16:06.040 It kind of looks like a sticker with a part 0:16:06.120 --> 0:16:10.320 that peels off, and in the part that peels off, 0:16:10.360 --> 0:16:12.440 you'd see the wound. Yeah. It's kind of like if 0:16:12.440 --> 0:16:15.680 you're painting a design on something, you need like a stencil, right, yeah, yeah, 0:16:15.680 --> 0:16:18.760 it's kind of like a maggot stencil. So yeah, so 0:16:18.800 --> 0:16:21.160 in a few days time, you change from place the 0:16:21.200 --> 0:16:24.440 bandage in the maggots, uh, and then you flush them 0:16:24.440 --> 0:16:27.760 out with probably like a saline solution or something. But wait, wait, 0:16:27.840 --> 0:16:29.840 do you miss the most important part? You miss what's 0:16:29.880 --> 0:16:33.040 happening in the mouth. Yes, what they're doing, well, they're yeah, 0:16:33.040 --> 0:16:36.720 they're eating up that decaying flesh, and they're clearing the 0:16:36.720 --> 0:16:39.680 place of bacteria. At least they're capable of clearing the 0:16:39.680 --> 0:16:42.320 place of a lot of different species of bacteria again, 0:16:42.320 --> 0:16:44.720 because they get these tiny little mouths, you know, going 0:16:44.720 --> 0:16:47.440 after the little bits there. And in the whole time 0:16:47.480 --> 0:16:50.920 they're using fluids too, right, they're turning to some enzymes 0:16:50.920 --> 0:16:52.880 for help with breaking down the dead tissue further and 0:16:52.880 --> 0:16:56.520 their stimulating cell growth there. This is pretty cool. They're 0:16:56.520 --> 0:17:00.640 also excreting an antibacterial agent. Yeah, I imagine we excrete 0:17:00.680 --> 0:17:07.320 an antibacterial agent. Just imagine possibilities. But but yeah, this 0:17:07.160 --> 0:17:08.880 is this kind of boils down to what I've read before, 0:17:08.880 --> 0:17:11.240 like people talking about how maggots are are really like 0:17:11.280 --> 0:17:14.080 they're they're kind of clean. They're pretty clean organisms. You know, 0:17:14.320 --> 0:17:17.199 they they're in the pig. Yeah, yeah, they may be 0:17:17.280 --> 0:17:20.720 in gross situations, but you know, there's there's nothing wrong. 0:17:21.119 --> 0:17:23.560 This is also why the maggot I believe. I read 0:17:23.600 --> 0:17:25.880 something a while back talking about if we were ever 0:17:25.920 --> 0:17:29.359 to send astronauts to Mars, you know, a long space flight, 0:17:29.680 --> 0:17:32.000 but if you could get get them to eat maggots, 0:17:32.240 --> 0:17:34.959 astronauts astronauts the eat maggots, and that would be awesome 0:17:35.000 --> 0:17:37.320 because maggots, I mean, they're they're they're larva, and they're 0:17:37.400 --> 0:17:38.920 all they do is fatten up and get ready for 0:17:38.920 --> 0:17:40.960 the next stage of their life. So they have a 0:17:41.040 --> 0:17:43.520 lot of like protein in them, and they're like very nutritious. 0:17:44.960 --> 0:17:47.240 That's why like chickens, chickens will eat the heck out 0:17:47.240 --> 0:17:49.879 of maggots, you know, their whole like their whole like 0:17:49.880 --> 0:17:53.040 farming operations that depend on like like making sure that 0:17:53.080 --> 0:17:55.240 like the chickens eat the maggots. Or I think there's 0:17:55.280 --> 0:17:59.679 some like tapia farming um processes out there where like 0:17:59.840 --> 0:18:01.560 the Seriously, it's like I remember hearing about this words 0:18:01.600 --> 0:18:04.760 like the telapia, You harvest the telapia made, then you 0:18:04.880 --> 0:18:08.600 let flies land on the leftovers, maggots grow and you 0:18:08.640 --> 0:18:10.679 get the maggots, and you fee the maggots the telapia, 0:18:10.720 --> 0:18:16.960 et cetera. So that's nice, it's very efficient. So yeah, 0:18:17.280 --> 0:18:19.440 maggots basically they just need a little bit of a 0:18:20.400 --> 0:18:26.159 new campaign, a new new pr campaign to revise their image, 0:18:26.200 --> 0:18:28.240 don't you think. Yeah, because like the treatments are really 0:18:28.280 --> 0:18:30.720 pretty cheap, right, it's like a hundred bucks. Yeah, it 0:18:30.720 --> 0:18:33.400 can be a hundred bucks, and so that's a lot 0:18:33.520 --> 0:18:37.160 less than surgery and probably your insurance company would be 0:18:37.359 --> 0:18:39.880 more psyched to, you know, to shout a hundred bucks 0:18:39.880 --> 0:18:42.199 than the cost involved in surgery. Yeah, put that in 0:18:42.200 --> 0:18:44.600 the ad campaign. I can like see like the the 0:18:44.600 --> 0:18:47.120 the TV ad with like you know, people walking through 0:18:47.119 --> 0:18:49.280 a field and they start having a heart to heart 0:18:49.320 --> 0:18:53.119 about the maggots. So the treatment can last as long 0:18:53.200 --> 0:18:56.120 as ten days, and it's important to note that patients 0:18:56.160 --> 0:18:59.920 may also be taking antibotics while the magot therapy is going. 0:19:00.880 --> 0:19:02.320 So let's talk about it. You guys may think we're 0:19:02.359 --> 0:19:04.040 a little crazy. You might not have heard this before. 0:19:04.200 --> 0:19:06.800 You're thinking, no, I don't buy it, Robert Allison, they're 0:19:06.840 --> 0:19:08.919 sort of out there. Yeah, because we've talked. It's kind 0:19:08.960 --> 0:19:10.480 of like the whole thing with the hookworm treatment. The 0:19:10.480 --> 0:19:13.840 hookworm treatment was is still considered out there, but well 0:19:13.880 --> 0:19:16.680 we only mentioned that in passing. Yeah, but it's gotten 0:19:16.680 --> 0:19:18.160 a lot of but it's gotten a lot of coverage 0:19:18.200 --> 0:19:22.760 elsewhere therapy. You just did a blog post on it. Yeah. Yeah. 0:19:22.840 --> 0:19:26.159 So so there are some pretty major supporters or at 0:19:26.200 --> 0:19:28.600 least people who don't object to mega therapy, one of 0:19:28.600 --> 0:19:31.199 them being the US Food and Drug Administration. Yeah, they 0:19:31.200 --> 0:19:32.680 came around to it in two thousand and four, the 0:19:32.720 --> 0:19:34.720 same year that they were decided to be okay with 0:19:34.720 --> 0:19:38.440 the leeches. It was a whole banner year. The Legion 0:19:38.480 --> 0:19:43.920 Maggot Council really made some some some progress that here, 0:19:44.440 --> 0:19:47.080 and more recently, November two thousand nine, you had the 0:19:47.119 --> 0:19:50.680 Centers for Medicare and Medicaid Services in the US revising 0:19:50.720 --> 0:19:53.840 their billing Code guidelines UH in an effort to help 0:19:53.920 --> 0:19:58.600 patients get reimbursed for megat therapy. Health Canada, the Canadian 0:19:58.600 --> 0:20:00.959 Public Health Agency has gone so far is to classify 0:20:01.320 --> 0:20:06.880 medical maggots as drugs. So, of course downsides of therapy, 0:20:07.000 --> 0:20:09.159