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Speaker 1: Moving the GDP of Italy and maybe the Eurozone. Is

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Speaker 1: Steve Paliuca, the founder and CEO of Pax Greve senior

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Speaker 1: advisor at Bank Capital, I owner the Boston Celtics and

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Speaker 1: an Italian club called at Atalanta. Thank you for the

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Speaker 1: text just last week. Thank you very much defeating my

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Speaker 1: beloved AC Milan. How much fun are you have in it?

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Speaker 1: Just seems like you're having a blast right now.

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Speaker 2: It's been a good year. I I don't want to

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Speaker 2: end first open up in a good way.

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Speaker 3: Celtics are winning, and Atalanta's winning, and the markets are

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Speaker 3: doing well.

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Speaker 1: So let's get to the NBA first, so Cuban and

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Speaker 1: getting out in the Mavericks. Some people talking about peak

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Speaker 1: valuations of NBA franchises.

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Speaker 4: Can you give us your view on that development.

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Speaker 3: You know, I don't think they've peaked at all yet.

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Speaker 3: Basketball is a global school sport. I vested in soccer.

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Speaker 3: It's a global sport with streaming, you know you can.

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Speaker 3: I watched the game actually last night. I watched soy

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Speaker 3: s game on my phone last night. So we haven't

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Speaker 3: really penetrated all the markets. Media rights are still going

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Speaker 3: up and so the programming, it's the only programmer I

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Speaker 3: think the top ten of the ten rated shows in

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Speaker 3: the sports program.

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Speaker 1: Let's talk about that. And if that is absolutely crushing it,

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Speaker 1: let's build on the NBA. It feels like in a

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Speaker 1: mind of sum So let me give you that perspective

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Speaker 1: that we're hitting this ceiling that the broadcasters never really

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Speaker 1: truly on the asset they rent it. They're finding that

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Speaker 1: it's getting really expensive and they're trying to work out

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Speaker 1: where on earth to puts it. Do you land it

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Speaker 1: on peacock on a streaming device, do you get it

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Speaker 1: to as many homes as you possibly can through cable?

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Speaker 4: Cable's dying? What do we do?

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Speaker 1: What do you see further down the road that suggests

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Speaker 1: to you that media rights TV rights for sports like

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Speaker 1: basketball can keep climbing.

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Speaker 3: Well, we're in a period now, as you guys have

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Speaker 3: following media and media investing in the last thirty years,

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Speaker 3: you've had.

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Speaker 2: Bundling, unbundling, rebundling, unbundling.

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Speaker 3: We were in a big unbundling phase, you know, streaming

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Speaker 3: coming in with cable, with linear TV, and.

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Speaker 2: What that means is the new Internet players, you.

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Speaker 3: Know, Google, Facebook, They all want programming for people to

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Speaker 3: watch content, So content is more and more valuable. NBA

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Speaker 3: content is hugely valuable, and so they're fighting over that.

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Speaker 3: I think you'll see some consolidation. You'll see these streamers consolidating,

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Speaker 3: you know, the back to the bundling, because it's inefficient

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Speaker 3: to have multiple software systems, you know, multiple marketing, So

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Speaker 3: you'll see a rebundling.

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Speaker 2: But the programming will always.

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Speaker 3: Be valuable because it's the only thing that really aggregates eyeballs.

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Speaker 3: And so I don't think we're through with those rates

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Speaker 3: going up for premier sports like NBA, AFL.

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Speaker 5: Are buying sports teams better than buying regular companies.

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Speaker 3: If you win there, it's better investment lose.

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Speaker 2: Okay, investment, fire the owner.

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Speaker 4: I'm going to ask this because.

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Speaker 5: You know, the entire Middle East delegation here is trying

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Speaker 5: to buy the whole host of different football clubs in Europe.

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Speaker 5: You see this as sort of the hot investment. At

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Speaker 5: what point is it too hot to handle? And this

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Speaker 5: is sort of what happened in certain spheres of private

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Speaker 5: equity during some of the boom times that turned into

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Speaker 5: bus times.

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Speaker 3: Well, it's turned out that you know, we didn't buy

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Speaker 3: the Celtics, we didn't have a presentation of a seventy

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Speaker 3: percent IRR. It was like banner seventeen. We did it

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Speaker 3: as a labor love. So I have to say I

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Speaker 3: certainly didn't predict the values. What happened has happened in sports,

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Speaker 3: but it turns out that sports has been a very

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Speaker 3: good business because of this dynamic of people battling for eyeballs.

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Speaker 3: And then secondly, it is a fun investment. You know,

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Speaker 3: people are like to be part of tribes and sports

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Speaker 3: are Sports is a great feeling.

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Speaker 2: You know, even some people like Ac Milan, you know, it's.

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Speaker 5: Also a great feelings get Hammers.

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Speaker 4: It's a great.

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Speaker 2: Feeling to be part of this club.

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Speaker 3: And when we when we bought the team in two

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Speaker 3: thousand and three, they barely had contact with any of

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Speaker 3: their customers.

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Speaker 2: I don't think they even had the emails.

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Speaker 3: And there was no there was no Facebook, there, there

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Speaker 3: was no no Twitter now x So what's happened is

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Speaker 3: technology has allowed the fans to get right up close

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Speaker 3: to the players, to really really be part of the club,

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Speaker 3: be more engaged. And then now you have gambling coming in,

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Speaker 3: betting coming in, which makes.

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Speaker 2: Them further engaged.

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Speaker 3: So it's almost it's out of body experience when you

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Speaker 3: walk into the Boston gard and you feel that vibe,

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Speaker 3: and you feel it on television, and technologies make it easier.

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Speaker 5: I love how John open it up. It seems like

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Speaker 5: you're having so much fun, and you're having fun with

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Speaker 5: the tribe of sports, but you're also having fun with

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Speaker 5: the tribe of artificial intelligence, which is basically permeating every

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Speaker 5: corner of this get together. And I'm wondering, you've invested

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Speaker 5: in companies for many, many years. What proportion of some

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Speaker 5: of these AI companies and initiatives do you think are

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Speaker 5: actually going to come to fruition and be valuable.

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Speaker 3: That's a great question, Lisa. It reminds me of nineteen

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Speaker 3: ninety nine. I was going out to California and people

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Speaker 3: would come in with a term sheet and said, Okay,

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Speaker 3: you have two hours to invest in this company that's

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Speaker 3: going to sell medical products on the internet.

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Speaker 2: Is there a plan?

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Speaker 3: No, it's the internet, and valuation is one hundred million dollars.

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Speaker 3: We have no sales.

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Speaker 2: So I turned many of those down.

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Speaker 3: There are now a thousand artificial intelligence companies if you

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Speaker 3: walk around Davos here. I think they should change into

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Speaker 3: the artificial intelligence Forum this year. Everything seems to be

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Speaker 3: ubiquitous artificial intelligence. That being said, I think we are

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Speaker 3: in the experimentation phase.

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Speaker 2: The CEOs have not implemented this in a big way yet.

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Speaker 3: The technology sells ways to come, but I think it'll

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Speaker 3: be just as revolutionary as the Internet was.

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Speaker 2: Right now.

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Speaker 3: I don't think people realize a model like chat GPT

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Speaker 3: because it basically is a brute force transformer model. It

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Speaker 3: costs four hundred million dollars just in GPU to program

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Speaker 3: it to make the large language model. So liquid AI,

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Speaker 3: a company we've invested into the thesis for re mit

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Speaker 3: is can they can configure the software more like the brain.

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Speaker 3: So they have nine hundred let's say, nodes versus one

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Speaker 3: hundred thousand nodes in chat GPT. So you can program

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Speaker 3: a large language model for probably a twentieth, fifteenth or twentieth.

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Speaker 2: Of the cost. So you're going to need that cost to.

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Speaker 3: Come down because if you think about all these models,

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Speaker 3: if everybody built one of those models, you take up

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Speaker 3: half the power in the United States.

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Speaker 2: So I think we're.

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Speaker 3: Still in the experimentation stage and CEOs are thoughtful. CEOs

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Speaker 3: are looking at this and thinking where can I put it?

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Speaker 2: In my business? How can I make it secure?

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Speaker 3: If you build your own langulaarge language model with today's technology,

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Speaker 3: it's three four million dollars, So that's not going to happen.

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Speaker 3: So new technology are going to have to come out

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Speaker 3: to make it cheaper, more efficient and more secure.

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Speaker 4: When did you begin to become interested in all of

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Speaker 4: this state?

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Speaker 3: Thirty years ago I started a technology funded ban capital

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Speaker 3: called Information Partners, And in fact I wrote a presentation

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Speaker 3: for a conference in Aspen. It's very it looks like

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Speaker 3: Caveman now, but it was called convergence, and I was

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Speaker 3: saying that what's going to happen is the telephone and

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Speaker 3: the television and computers were going to converge, so we'd

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Speaker 3: have a different experience.

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Speaker 2: Now the little did I.

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Speaker 3: Know that Apple will come out with the iPhone all

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Speaker 3: the rest of it. But I've been interested in tech

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Speaker 3: and been a tech investor and consultant for many many years,

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Speaker 3: and been through the Internet boom, the craziness of you know,

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Speaker 3: literally I'm standing in California ninety ninety is these term

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Speaker 3: shoots you're coming in. This is crazy. And now that's

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Speaker 3: happening again on Ai. But AI is going to have

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Speaker 3: a huge impact productivity. It's going to be great for

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Speaker 3: the United States because I think it's going to be

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Speaker 3: the next productivity wave. And I'm not one of those

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Speaker 3: is scared of it. To me, it is a super

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Speaker 3: sized slide rule. You know, when when I was withthus

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Speaker 3: the County Study of Accounting, I used to use a

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Speaker 3: slide rule and you look at the table and they said, Oh,

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Speaker 3: the computer's coming in twelve HP, twelve C.

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Speaker 2: It's going to ruin our minds. It doesn't.

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Speaker 3: It's a tool that's going to expand our capabilities. And

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Speaker 3: AI is incredible.

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Speaker 4: My Spence said the same thing.

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Speaker 1: No about Laureate General atlant State working over there with

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Speaker 1: Bill Ford. We talked to him about forty minutes ago.

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Speaker 1: Is there anything about it that concerns you? And I think, whatsoever?

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Speaker 1: Is there something? Let's say you get some term sheets.

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Speaker 1: I want you to do an station between the companies

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Speaker 1: you would work with and the companies you worried about

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Speaker 1: because you think that'd be more harm than good.

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Speaker 4: How do you draw that distinction.

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Speaker 2: Well, that's a great question. It's a tough one, you know.

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Speaker 3: I would I would compare it to anything else like

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Speaker 3: nuclear power was great. Nuclear bombs can destroy the world,

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Speaker 3: right if you have bad actors, So so artificial intelligence,

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Speaker 3: if you have a bad actor behind it, it's going

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Speaker 3: to be a problem. So what's going to have to

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Speaker 3: happen is you're gonna have a regulation. You're gonna have

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Speaker 3: to have people watching the Internet. You're gonna have to

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Speaker 3: people punishing and and and and thinking about security. So

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Speaker 3: so again I view it as a tool, but it's

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Speaker 3: a tool that can be misused. So there's gonna have

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Speaker 3: to be a certain amount of regulation and a certain

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Speaker 3: amount of of of of more security and more watching

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Speaker 3: what is happening by the world.

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Speaker 5: On the flip side, are there any companies that you're seeing?

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Speaker 5: Are there areas of artificial intelligence that you're seeing where

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Speaker 5: you think companies are going to become the next Facebook

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Speaker 5: or Apple?

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Speaker 2: That's you know, there's there's two schools of thought.

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Speaker 3: One school of thought would be, uh, one company, maybe

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Speaker 3: chat Gypt is going to emerge and become the Google

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Speaker 3: you know of of of artificial intelligence. Another school thought is, uh,

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Speaker 3: these models will come down in price, which I say

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Speaker 3: liquid AI is one that can drive that price down

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Speaker 3: and you will get many large language models that are

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Speaker 3: that are usable and Secondly, you'll focus on verticals, so

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Speaker 3: they'll be artificial intelligence for medicals. So it doesn't make

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Speaker 3: sense for a medical artificial intelligence system to go out

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Speaker 3: and read the Mozart symphony. It has no relevance to medicine.

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Speaker 3: So I'm in the camp that believes there'll be a

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Speaker 3: hybrid system. There'll be a few foundational models people will use,

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Speaker 3: they'll be large with they foundational and then there'll be

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Speaker 3: probably companies that can capture vertical markets and so you'll

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Speaker 3: have a number.

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Speaker 2: It'll be a network effect.

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Speaker 3: There'll be a company captures medical, a company that captures industrial,

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Speaker 3: et cetera.

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Speaker 5: Before we let you go, you mentioned nineteen ninety nine,

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Speaker 5: and we can't.

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Speaker 4: Let that slide.

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Speaker 5: If we're looking at another ninety nine Internet bubble like

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Speaker 5: boom and artificial intelligence, is there going to be some

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Speaker 5: kind of bust and how painful will it be?

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Speaker 3: Yeah, there's always a bust there for the boom, for sure.

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Speaker 3: The good news is these companies are requiring equity, so

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Speaker 3: it's not debt, so it's not going to have a

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Speaker 3: systemic effect.

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Speaker 2: But there will be a bust of people who invested.

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Speaker 3: In every single thing that had the word AI in

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Speaker 3: front of it, and there'll be a carnage and then

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Speaker 3: they'll be the companies will emerge. The best companies will emerge,

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Speaker 3: and there'll be several of them. And I think, again,

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Speaker 3: different than Google dominating search, there'll be companies and companies

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Speaker 3: that really dominate vertical markets. And by the way, if

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Speaker 3: there is a disruptor, if you think about AT and

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Speaker 3: T used to dominate the phone business and then everything

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Speaker 3: became fragmented, Google looks unassailable. But if there is a disruptor,

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Speaker 3: it'll be an AI company that gets you a better search.

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Speaker 2: So when you say, you know, I want to.

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Speaker 3: Know what the best pasta is, it'll it won't give

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Speaker 3: you five articles, It'll give you a recipe for the pasta,

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Speaker 3: why it's the right pasa and who's the person that

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Speaker 3: invented the recipe that will That would be a big

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Speaker 3: disruptor for Google. That's why Google is spending so much

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Speaker 3: money into AI. Microsoft as well. They want to protect

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Speaker 3: their positions. So I think we're in a great error

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Speaker 3: where there will be some disruptors coming in and life

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Speaker 3: may change.

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Speaker 2: It won't be all Google. It will be an ourtificial

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Speaker 2: intelligence company that gets us better data.

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Speaker 1: You don't need to spend full into midiontol. It's find

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Speaker 1: out the ans to that. There is only one answer.

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Speaker 4: It's not us. It's always not us, right always that is?

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Speaker 4: That is the correct answer? Did she g bt should

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Speaker 4: know the answer?

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Speaker 5: Your grandmother may be perfect pasta.

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Speaker 4: Don't ever think cool. There is no challenge to that.

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Speaker 4: Was it really good? Steve will say the same thing

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Speaker 4: about his grandmother too, and then we'll fight over it,

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Speaker 4: Steve panuk pack.

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Speaker 3: But my grandmother used to roll it out on the

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Speaker 3: table and yeah, the individual pasta every every Sunday.

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Speaker 2: Oh my gosh, I didn't know. I grew up at

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Speaker 2: a gourmet in a restaurant. Can I come over that used.

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Speaker 1: To make the sauces at the back of the apartment

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Speaker 1: building that have these big sort of oil canisters and

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Speaker 1: make the tomato sauce just amazing.

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Speaker 3: She used to wake up a six and worrying and

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Speaker 3: make fried pizza dough for me when I was a

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Speaker 3: kid in every breakfast.

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Speaker 2: Every every every Saturday Sunday.

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Speaker 4: Then you taking me back.

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Speaker 2: It was a good life.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, I didn't have that.

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Speaker 3: That was good.

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Speaker 2: Honestly.

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Speaker 1: The food there that was like a three micheline style restaurant.

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Speaker 1: And like you say, Steve had no idea it was

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Speaker 1: that good at the time.

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Speaker 4: You know, you try and find that elsewhere, you cannot

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Speaker 4: find it.

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Speaker 2: We have to get you a kid at a goose

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Speaker 2: coat on the company bank apples. Yes, it's an orbis

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Speaker 2: orbis code of Davos.

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Speaker 4: Okay, this is sounds