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Speaker 1: Hi, everyone. We just wanted to provide a content warning

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Speaker 1: for this episode because in this discussion we talk about

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Speaker 1: and also the movie involves sexual and physical assault, child

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Speaker 1: sexual abuse, and suicide. Thank you for listening and enjoy

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Speaker 1: the episode. On the beck dol Cast, the questions asked

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Speaker 1: if movies have women and um, are all their discussions

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Speaker 1: just boyfriends and husbands or do they have individualism the

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Speaker 1: patriarchy zef invest start changing it with the beck Del Cast. Hi, everybody,

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Speaker 1: welcome to the back Selcast. My name is Jamie Loftus,

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Speaker 1: my name is Caitlin Toronte. I just wanted to start

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Speaker 1: like an MPR an episode of MPR. It's the Radio,

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Speaker 1: UM and this is our podcast where we take an

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Speaker 1: intersectional look at how how people are portrayed in your

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Speaker 1: favorite movies. It's true we use the Bechtel test sometimes

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Speaker 1: called the Becktel Wallace test as a simply a jumping

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Speaker 1: off point. The whole podcast isn't about that, despite common misconceptions. UM,

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Speaker 1: you know, you know everyone out there talking about the

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Speaker 1: Bechtel Cast all the time. Yeah, surely that's what happens.

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Speaker 1: It's it's not just the people say the Bechtel Cast

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Speaker 1: and then whoever else is in the room goes, what

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Speaker 1: what are you talking about? Now? Everyone's like, oh, yes,

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Speaker 1: I know that podcast. Well that show we all know

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Speaker 1: and listen anyway, So the Bechtel test, uh, that is

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Speaker 1: again just what we used to inspire a much larger

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Speaker 1: conversation about representation and intersectionality and inclusivity. And that is

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Speaker 1: a media metric originally created by queer cartoonist Alison Bechtel,

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Speaker 1: in which two people of any marginalized gender must have names,

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Speaker 1: they must speak to each other about something other than

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Speaker 1: a man for at least two lines of dialogue. That

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Speaker 1: is our particular rendition of the test. Yes, but we

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Speaker 1: have a we have a myriad tests to discuss later

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Speaker 1: in the episode, one created by friend of the cast. Wow.

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Speaker 1: What teaser alert? Um, And yeah, I'm really excited for

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Speaker 1: today's episode and for our guest. Yes, our guest today

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Speaker 1: is a non binary, mixed race magma artist, curator, and educator.

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Speaker 1: Their work focuses on reclaiming narrative space, infusing genre with

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Speaker 1: social justice, and holding space collaboration. You also might have

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Speaker 1: heard and seen them on our recent live reading of Twilight.

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Speaker 1: It is Jess Merwin. Hi, welcome, Thank you for having me.

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Speaker 1: I am this is like a dream come true. Quite literally,

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Speaker 1: this is wonderful. I'm so happy to be here. We're

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Speaker 1: so happy to have you. Yeah, it's it's I really like,

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Speaker 1: can't we to talk about this, this weird native movie

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Speaker 1: that nobody's heard of. We're really psyched to talk about

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Speaker 1: it because it was originally recommended to us by um Ali,

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Speaker 1: who spoke about it when um When when Ali came

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Speaker 1: on to discuss Frozen to a couple of months ago podcast. Canonically,

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Speaker 1: I think, what is time? I've lost all Definitely October

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Speaker 1: here is well, it's October now, this episode is coming

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Speaker 1: out in November sometimes so so it's no future. It's November.

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Speaker 1: Someone was making the joke that it was like March

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Speaker 1: five hundred and eighty five. In a way, it does

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Speaker 1: feel it's been March years. The CBC newscast, like the

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Speaker 1: morning newscast that I listened to, has like gives you

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Speaker 1: like a day only update of being like, well we're

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Speaker 1: going in to day of quarantine. You're like, oh my god,

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Speaker 1: it feels very end times yes, right, like Datalogue day

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Speaker 1: four thousand. There's still no end in sight. Iron Man

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Speaker 1: at the beginning of End Game, right the original Quarantine er. Um,

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Speaker 1: but yeah, Ali brought this movie to us originally, and um,

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Speaker 1: we we were kind of tipped off about this movie. Um,

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Speaker 1: I guess we should just say the name of the movie.

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Speaker 1: I don't know what we're being it's a secret about.

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Speaker 1: We were talking, of course about Rhymes for Young Girls,

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Speaker 1: a Jeff Barnaby movie from two thousand and thirteen. And

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Speaker 1: the reason we're talking about it with Ali was first

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Speaker 1: of all, because it's a movie that Ali is a

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Speaker 1: big fan of, but also because it was the basis

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Speaker 1: for the Alo Test, which is the test that Ali created. Yes,

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Speaker 1: and we'll talk about that in a little bit, But first, Jess,

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Speaker 1: what's your relationship with Rhymes for Young Girls? Oh Man?

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Speaker 1: So growing up in the eighties and nineties as a

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Speaker 1: mixed race like Magma kid, So I don't I didn't

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Speaker 1: grow up in reserve, and I'm Magma through my mother's mother,

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Speaker 1: through my grandmother, and she had been which she was

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Speaker 1: orphaned at very young age, so she didn't really grow

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Speaker 1: up in a like a traditional sort of way in

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Speaker 1: terms of like learning how to do a lot of

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Speaker 1: traditional Maigma things. So you know, I was growing up

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Speaker 1: with this like identity that was very unresolved in a

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Speaker 1: lot of ways, and I felt like very conflicted about

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Speaker 1: because it's you know, being white passing but also being

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Speaker 1: like I'm also an indigenous person. I didn't really know

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Speaker 1: how I like fit. And on top of that, being

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Speaker 1: queer and being trans and just dealing with like a

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Speaker 1: lot of other stuff meant that I ended up feeling

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Speaker 1: like I couldn't really like claim to anything. You know.

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Speaker 1: It was just sort of like it's it's too much.

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Speaker 1: You can't be queer and native and you know, mentally ill,

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Speaker 1: it's just like too many things. So so when this

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Speaker 1: film came out, I had just been back in Canada

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Speaker 1: for a couple of years because I spent some time

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Speaker 1: living overseas, and it was like, we have this expression

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Speaker 1: of French. It's like a like a lightning strike um

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Speaker 1: and like we use it a lot, like when you're

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Speaker 1: like fall in love at first sight or when you

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Speaker 1: get like an idea, And it was almost like that

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Speaker 1: for for seeing this film. You know, I was in

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Speaker 1: my sort of early twenties and and just moved back

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Speaker 1: to Canada or like recent moved back to Canada. Was

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Speaker 1: sort of like, oh, my god, here's like a film

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Speaker 1: about Migma people with people speak Magma and it's like

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Speaker 1: the first time that I'm ever seeing this, and all

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Speaker 1: of a sudden it sort of like this way of

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Speaker 1: starting to reconnect with Magma culture, Like all of a

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Speaker 1: sudden sort of like seeing this film and being like,

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Speaker 1: oh my god, there is this part of me that's

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Speaker 1: like that, that feels something so profound and just like

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Speaker 1: hearing people speak Magma and seeing that represented on the screen.

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Speaker 1: And then uh, and we'll talk about this a little bit,

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Speaker 1: but there was so much other stuff going on in

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Speaker 1: terms of like indigenous rights an indigenous culture at that time,

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Speaker 1: and so it was like this was really the catalyst

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Speaker 1: for me like reconnecting in a big way to yeah,

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Speaker 1: to to sort of like Magma on Nous. That's incredible

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Speaker 1: and one of so many examples we see of why

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Speaker 1: representation is so important. I think, Yeah, Um, my relationship

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Speaker 1: with this movie is it was not super on my

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Speaker 1: radar until about a few months Blood Quantum. I did

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Speaker 1: not know about Rams for Young Gal. How did you

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Speaker 1: know about Blood Quantum, Jamie, I don't know. I think

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Speaker 1: it was just I was paying closer attention to movies

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Speaker 1: that were coming out last year than I was in.

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Speaker 1: But then when Ali brought up Rams for Young Gals

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Speaker 1: instead of the same director, I was like, oh, and um, yeah,

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Speaker 1: I think we did have a couple of listeners as well, Um,

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Speaker 1: recommend this this movie to us. So it's it's been

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Speaker 1: on our kind of watch list, our list of movies

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Speaker 1: to cover. Yeah, I think for our like horror movies

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Speaker 1: last year. In the request it popped up a couple

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Speaker 1: of times, and maybe that was why I was familiar

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Speaker 1: with it. Sure, yeah, yeah, but I'm I'm happy to

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Speaker 1: have seen the movie now. I watched it three times. Um,

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Speaker 1: but yeah, I'm so excited to talk about it. Should

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Speaker 1: we dive into the recap? Let's do it alright, So

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Speaker 1: we open with text at the beginning, UM describing the

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Speaker 1: law in Canada that states that every Indigenous child between

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Speaker 1: the age of five and sixteen must attend an Indian

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Speaker 1: residential school. There are truant officers who more or less

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Speaker 1: police the schools and the community, and who are responsible

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Speaker 1: for bringing into custody more or less any child who

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Speaker 1: is absent from school, and they are allowed to use

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Speaker 1: force to do that, any force that they see necessary. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: So we're starting off chill legal wording. That was. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: so that's an excerpt from the Indian Act. And we

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Speaker 1: can talk a little bit more about this in terms

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Speaker 1: of like context for the film, because there's a lot

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Speaker 1: to talk about because it's it's an act that's been

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Speaker 1: around since essentially the beginning of Canada, since confederation in

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Speaker 1: uh eighteen s and it's still exist today. So that's

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Speaker 1: that's cool. Um, But yeah, so that that's an actual

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Speaker 1: law that essentially governs all of the federal government's interactions

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Speaker 1: with Indigenous people. So um, to say it's racist is

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Speaker 1: a little bit of an understatement. And this kind of

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Speaker 1: like opening package that Jeff has chosen here kind of

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Speaker 1: helps like highlight a lot of the issues with the

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Speaker 1: Indian Act. Absolutely, and I feel like we were goofy.

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Speaker 1: Americans have a tendency to really romanticize Canada as this

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Speaker 1: place of justice that it you know, clearly is not

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Speaker 1: um and so I mean, even just from the beginning

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Speaker 1: frame of the movie or just like yeah, no, we

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Speaker 1: are desperate to feel a way about Canada that is

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Speaker 1: not true. No, no, and it's it's it's one of

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Speaker 1: those things too that like, you know, don't get me wrong.

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Speaker 1: We have like legal weed and free healthcare, so pretty

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Speaker 1: you know, things are pretty good. But on the other hand, yeah,

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Speaker 1: we do still have a lot of the systemic racism

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Speaker 1: and discrimination that exists in the United States, and like

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Speaker 1: Canadians are you know, aren't necessarily all like super polite

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Speaker 1: and super you know, courteous. Like there's I think that

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Speaker 1: we have this sort of angel complex with regards to

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Speaker 1: the rest of the world where we're like, oh, we're perfect,

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Speaker 1: We're not the United States, and it's like, oh, the

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Speaker 1: bar is on the floor all like all the Native

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Speaker 1: people in the back are like, well, I don't I

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Speaker 1: don't know about that, Like it's like, yeah, have you

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Speaker 1: read that law lately? Yeah, or even just the fact

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Speaker 1: that like since this year there's been like a half

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Speaker 1: dozen high profile killings of Indigenous people, either at the

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Speaker 1: hands of police or at the hands of our medical system.

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Speaker 1: You know that since like January. Horrifying. So yeah, So

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Speaker 1: we opened on the movie. It is nineteen sixty nine.

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Speaker 1: We are on a fictional reserve called the Red Crow

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Speaker 1: Indian Reservation. We meet a Magma family, including young Ala.

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Speaker 1: She's a little girl who loves to draw and she

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Speaker 1: usually draws kind of like morbid horror imagery of like

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Speaker 1: zombies and ghoules and Whatnotum, she has a little brother, Tyler.

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Speaker 1: We meet her mother Anna and her father Joseph, as

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Speaker 1: well as her uncle Burner. They are all drug dealers

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Speaker 1: on the reserve. And then one night, the adults they're

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Speaker 1: all smoking weed, they're drinking heavily, and then a bunch

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Speaker 1: of tragic things happen kind of all at once, where

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Speaker 1: AILA's mother accidentally kills her little brother Tyler in a

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Speaker 1: drunk driving accident, and then her mother kills herself. Her

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Speaker 1: father takes the blame for it and is taken away

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Speaker 1: to prison. So that's in the first ten minutes of

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Speaker 1: this movie that we're talking about on a on a

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Speaker 1: humorous podcast, you know. Um, and it doesn't I think

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Speaker 1: that there's like a lot of stuff even in that

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Speaker 1: that we should talk about in terms of like depictions

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Speaker 1: of Indians using drugs and being broken. But again, like

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Speaker 1: all of these parentheses are kind of like paragraphs, so

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Speaker 1: it might make more sense to finish with like the

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Speaker 1: plat sumary and then get into it because otherwise, yeah,

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Speaker 1: it's like, right, we got things to say. It is

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Speaker 1: so much it is quite a bit of trauma in

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Speaker 1: I think ninety seconds. Yeah, it all happens very very

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Speaker 1: very quickly. Yeah, and then there continues to be trauma

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Speaker 1: after this. Oh um. Yes. So we cut to seven

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Speaker 1: years later. It is now the mid seventies. A La

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Speaker 1: played by dave Rey Jacobs is now a teenager living

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Speaker 1: with her uncle Berner, and we also learned that Berner

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Speaker 1: is kind of a snitch in the community where he

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Speaker 1: kind of rats out his fellow man on the reserve

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Speaker 1: to these white truant officers, the main one of those

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Speaker 1: being this guy named Popper, and Paper comes to collect

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Speaker 1: quote truant taxes, which are basically this family bribing him

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Speaker 1: so that the kids don't have to go to the

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Speaker 1: nearby residential school. And we will also provide a lot

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Speaker 1: of context in our discussion about residential schools and that system.

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Speaker 1: But it's know that it's a place that you don't

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Speaker 1: want to go. So ALA's friends Chilo and Angus tell

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Speaker 1: her that Solo had gotten robbed by Stripper and can't

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Speaker 1: pay the truant tax and Aila realizes that Popper kind

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Speaker 1: of set up this whole thing, and this I might

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Speaker 1: need a little bit of clarification on my kind of

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Speaker 1: assumption was that Popper did that kind of like orchestrated

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Speaker 1: this whole setup and like robbed them so that they

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Speaker 1: wouldn't be able to pay the bribe so that he

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Speaker 1: could justify sending them to the school. Is that, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I think that's that's sort of the idea. And I

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Speaker 1: think that also has to do with the fact that

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Speaker 1: Joseph is coming out of prison. Like essentially Papper sets

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Speaker 1: up Burner in that first sort of scene where he's

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Speaker 1: like there at the fish Mitten and he's like, thanks

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Speaker 1: for telling us you're here, so they'll get the ship

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Speaker 1: kicked out of them by guys in the community so

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Speaker 1: that like Joseph will come home and stay in line, okay, right,

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Speaker 1: And so that's also part of like why Popper would

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Speaker 1: steal their money is because then you know, he can

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Speaker 1: get Sholo and Angus and Aila, you know, scoop them

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Speaker 1: up and take them to to St. Difano's to the

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Speaker 1: residential school um as sort of again like a way

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Speaker 1: of sort of being like, you know, this will keep

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Speaker 1: Joseph in line, got it, right, because he gets released

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Speaker 1: from prison and we also meet, uh serious, a kind

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Speaker 1: of grandmother figure for Ala, and she tells a story

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Speaker 1: about a wolf that's kind of delirious and ends a

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Speaker 1: beautiful animated series that I didn't I didn't I was.

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Speaker 1: I love when I don't see an animated sequence coming

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Speaker 1: and then it hasn't been beautiful. I loved it. There's

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Speaker 1: a one. There's one like that in Blood Quantum too.

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Speaker 1: That's really cool. And and in both of the cases,

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Speaker 1: like Jeff's using it as a way to sort of

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Speaker 1: like insert some of the like oral tradition UM and

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Speaker 1: like the way that like our traditional storytelling works UM

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Speaker 1: and sort of differentiate and distinguish it from the rest

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Speaker 1: of the story, you know. And it's really interesting because

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Speaker 1: like talking about the animation, you know, I also as

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Speaker 1: an animator, like love those sequences. And yeah, I think

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Speaker 1: I think some people sort of wh they first saw

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Speaker 1: the movie where like I don't get it. I don't

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Speaker 1: get why there's like an animated sequence, since like you

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Speaker 1: just gotta like experience it as part of the film,

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Speaker 1: you know. Like, but yeah, Serious also has a cat. Yes,

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Speaker 1: we see a live feeding a couple of times. I'm like,

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Speaker 1: it passes. You know. What I think is my test

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Speaker 1: is the Caitlin test. Is there a cat in a movie?

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Speaker 1: If so, it passes the Caitlin test. You've been all

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Speaker 1: you said. A few weeks ago, you said you were

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Speaker 1: never going to bring it up again, and now it's

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Speaker 1: the test. I'm sorry, I'm enabling cat talk okay live

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Speaker 1: for cat talk, and I was sad to see it go.

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Speaker 1: What I said was, I'm never going to bring up

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Speaker 1: cat facts again because I don't want to talk about

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Speaker 1: cats nipples anymore. But I still want to talk about cats.

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Speaker 1: They're great in general, the movie They're great. The movie

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Speaker 1: Cats Cats so clever, so funny. I love how we

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Speaker 1: all kind of just like we're like we sort of

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Speaker 1: been the words we can mutter along with this. I

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Speaker 1: just know the feeling again, right, Yeah. I had a

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Speaker 1: growing up. I had a Cat's soundtrack, like on the

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Speaker 1: cassette tape. So I didn't even know it was like

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Speaker 1: a musical because I just thought it was like a

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Speaker 1: concept album because none of the adults ever like explained

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Speaker 1: to me, and so like, when I found out it

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Speaker 1: was a musical, I was like, Oh, this makes so

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Speaker 1: much more sense, does it? Though doesn't make any sense.

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Speaker 1: I had a very similar experience with Phantom of the

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Speaker 1: Opera where my mom just like put on the c

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Speaker 1: D and left the room, and you're like, I think

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Speaker 1: I know what's happening, but I don't know what anyone

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Speaker 1: looks like. And I would just make my hunchback of

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Speaker 1: Notre Dame dolls kiss right, It's like, I don't know

295
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Speaker 1: epic kissing. Um we'll have talking about Yeah, you know,

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Speaker 1: that's all kids do anyway, And it's like, regardless of gender,

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Speaker 1: I think like all kids at some point in time

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Speaker 1: have been like, where their adults around, I'm gonna make

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Speaker 1: them spitch. Like I was straight up making my barbies

300
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Speaker 1: have sex with each other. So I was were you

301
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Speaker 1: like kids? It was like yes, correct, that was a

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Speaker 1: fun friend and girlfriends. So anyway, the Caitlin test, I

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Speaker 1: was like, where are we? What's happening? The cat got

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Speaker 1: here from Cat So there is a cat series has

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Speaker 1: a cat. So we hear this story about a wolf

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Speaker 1: that is like kind of rumming the land. Um, it's

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Speaker 1: delirious and it ends up eating itself, which I'm interested

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Speaker 1: to kind of talk about like the thematic implications of

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Speaker 1: that later on. But um, so Aila decides to steal

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Speaker 1: the money back that got robbed from them, and um

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Speaker 1: we also at this around this time revealed that Aila

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Speaker 1: has now gotten into this drug business ever since her

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Speaker 1: father left for prison and her dad, Joseph comes back

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Speaker 1: and is like kind of disappointed, disappointed to learn that

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Speaker 1: Burner let her get into all this. But because she's

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Speaker 1: an artist, she's like a really skilled kind of crafts

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Speaker 1: person of like rolling the joints and like flavoring them

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Speaker 1: and them and stuff. Yeah, I was like, she's cool. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: she's so very cool. It's also she doesn't like one

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Speaker 1: of the things that keeps coming back and like and

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Speaker 1: even one of the things that like in that scene,

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Speaker 1: you know, Burners like I've been drinking and smoking and

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Speaker 1: stuff like that. She's like, you can't roll for ship,

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Speaker 1: Like she doesn't she never like she doesn't smoke weed.

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Speaker 1: And that's like also part of like that gas mask

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Speaker 1: is like this idea of sort of like yeah, she's

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Speaker 1: she's also sort of like not she's part of this world,

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Speaker 1: but she's not like in that world in the same

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Speaker 1: functioning in the same way as the people around her.

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Speaker 1: She's not going to be a wolf who eats herself.

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Speaker 1: She's not going to destroy herself. So Ala pitches this

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Speaker 1: plan to her friend's Chilo and Angus that they break

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Speaker 1: into the nearby residential school sat dis is what they

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00:21:09,640 --> 00:21:12,280
Speaker 1: like nickname it, and they're going to steal their money

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Speaker 1: back from Popper. So she orchestrates this heist. She draws

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Speaker 1: a map. There's this little kid, Juji who I think

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Speaker 1: does he attend the school and and he will kind

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Speaker 1: of be there's like the inside man. He's the man

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Speaker 1: on the inside ten. I don't know what that kid

340
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Speaker 1: is doing now, but oh my god, what a sweet kid,

341
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Speaker 1: like a star. He always calls a la boss. Yeah.

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00:21:37,640 --> 00:21:42,080
Speaker 1: He's like, well what now boss? Um? I yeah, is

343
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Speaker 1: like um. I don't know if that would be like

344
00:21:44,680 --> 00:21:47,359
Speaker 1: his given name, because that's like a nickname in MGMA,

345
00:21:48,200 --> 00:21:50,640
Speaker 1: which means like like a little bug or little thing.

346
00:21:54,800 --> 00:21:59,840
Speaker 1: I'm a stand yeah. So meanwhile, Aila is having some

347
00:22:00,080 --> 00:22:04,520
Speaker 1: dreams and visions of her dead mother and brother, sometimes

348
00:22:04,520 --> 00:22:07,159
Speaker 1: as zombies, sometimes not, but this is kind of like

349
00:22:07,320 --> 00:22:11,160
Speaker 1: a recurring visual motif throughout the film. And then one

350
00:22:11,240 --> 00:22:13,399
Speaker 1: day Aila is out with her dad and they have

351
00:22:13,560 --> 00:22:17,440
Speaker 1: this violent run in with Popper and his cronies because

352
00:22:17,480 --> 00:22:21,000
Speaker 1: Berner sold them out to Popper and let them know

353
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Speaker 1: about Ali's plan to break into the school, so Poppers like,

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Speaker 1: you wanted to go into the school, fine, now you're

355
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Speaker 1: you're there. So he sends her there as punishment. But

356
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Speaker 1: if and correct me if I'm mistaken, But it feels

357
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Speaker 1: like that's kind of part of her plan. She gets

358
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Speaker 1: sent there on purpose so that she can also kind

359
00:22:37,480 --> 00:22:39,760
Speaker 1: of be on the inside. Or I might be wrong

360
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Speaker 1: about that. I'm not totally sure the thing, you know,

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Speaker 1: what I've gotten over the years, I've gone back and

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Speaker 1: forth on it, honestly, Caitlin, Like, I feel like, Um,

363
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Speaker 1: when I first saw the film, I was like, oh,

364
00:22:49,480 --> 00:22:52,920
Speaker 1: this is definitely like like she's improvising sort of like

365
00:22:53,400 --> 00:22:56,000
Speaker 1: this wasn't her plan. And I sort of feel like

366
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Speaker 1: now when I'm seeing and I'm like, I feel like

367
00:22:57,480 --> 00:22:59,200
Speaker 1: this was part of her plan in a way, because

368
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Speaker 1: Jiuji was to come and let her out of the hole, right, So,

369
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Speaker 1: like I think that it was her plan. I was

370
00:23:06,880 --> 00:23:10,760
Speaker 1: also questioning that because I was like if if that

371
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Speaker 1: was her plan? Galaxy brain genius right, like, because the

372
00:23:16,040 --> 00:23:18,239
Speaker 1: first time I watched the movie, I it didn't even

373
00:23:18,280 --> 00:23:19,879
Speaker 1: occur to me. But then on the second watch, I

374
00:23:19,920 --> 00:23:23,440
Speaker 1: was like, wait, she's so smart that it didn't even

375
00:23:23,520 --> 00:23:26,800
Speaker 1: occur to me that that might have been intentional, right,

376
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Speaker 1: But I also think that it sort of like speaks

377
00:23:28,800 --> 00:23:31,920
Speaker 1: to the character that Eila is and like because I

378
00:23:32,320 --> 00:23:35,240
Speaker 1: think in a way that she she talks about aging

379
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Speaker 1: a thousand years and I think that like after her

380
00:23:38,720 --> 00:23:40,320
Speaker 1: mother dies, and I think that there is a certain

381
00:23:42,040 --> 00:23:45,919
Speaker 1: wisdom in that character that's sort of outpaced with her age,

382
00:23:46,320 --> 00:23:48,280
Speaker 1: you know. And and like at the end of the film,

383
00:23:48,320 --> 00:23:50,119
Speaker 1: you know, Joseph says to her, like, you know, I

384
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Speaker 1: just want you to know you're a little girl, and

385
00:23:53,560 --> 00:23:55,200
Speaker 1: she's like, I was never a little girl. I think

386
00:23:55,200 --> 00:23:58,960
Speaker 1: that there is a certain she knows that Berner is

387
00:23:58,960 --> 00:24:01,200
Speaker 1: going to crack under press sure and wrap them out,

388
00:24:01,800 --> 00:24:05,480
Speaker 1: like and she knows that like there's a there's a

389
00:24:05,600 --> 00:24:07,720
Speaker 1: chance of that. So I think that she's kind of

390
00:24:07,840 --> 00:24:10,480
Speaker 1: got some ideas in her head. She knows that they're

391
00:24:10,480 --> 00:24:12,760
Speaker 1: not supposed to go out on the water. They've been

392
00:24:12,800 --> 00:24:14,720
Speaker 1: out on the water, you know, so I think that

393
00:24:14,880 --> 00:24:19,120
Speaker 1: I think it is planned. She also like engages in

394
00:24:19,119 --> 00:24:21,640
Speaker 1: that fight where she could have just like stood back,

395
00:24:21,720 --> 00:24:24,480
Speaker 1: and I think maybe, like, oh, if she if she's fighting,

396
00:24:24,560 --> 00:24:26,119
Speaker 1: that that's going to be all the more reason that

397
00:24:26,160 --> 00:24:30,080
Speaker 1: they might send her to the school. In any case

398
00:24:30,400 --> 00:24:34,080
Speaker 1: she gets sent there, they cut her hair off, they

399
00:24:34,080 --> 00:24:37,520
Speaker 1: put her in solitary confinement. That's like, that's the scene

400
00:24:37,520 --> 00:24:39,560
Speaker 1: that still and I've seen this film so many times

401
00:24:39,560 --> 00:24:42,000
Speaker 1: now throughout the years. I still cry every time I

402
00:24:42,000 --> 00:24:44,520
Speaker 1: watched that scene. That seems so hard to watch because

403
00:24:44,560 --> 00:24:47,840
Speaker 1: they used to do that to people, you know, and

404
00:24:47,920 --> 00:24:51,400
Speaker 1: for us, like your hair is really sacred because it's

405
00:24:51,400 --> 00:24:55,840
Speaker 1: your connection back to the earth. So I'm tearing up

406
00:24:55,880 --> 00:24:58,399
Speaker 1: now even talking about it. So like the you know,

407
00:24:58,480 --> 00:24:59,719
Speaker 1: that was one of the things that they always used

408
00:24:59,760 --> 00:25:01,800
Speaker 1: to do. And the kids were taken to residential schools

409
00:25:01,800 --> 00:25:04,159
Speaker 1: as they would cut off their braids. And I was

410
00:25:04,200 --> 00:25:07,440
Speaker 1: doing this project with a bunch of youth up north

411
00:25:07,440 --> 00:25:11,600
Speaker 1: here in Quebec, where we were creating this like woven tapestry,

412
00:25:12,640 --> 00:25:15,159
Speaker 1: and it was all made up of these different like

413
00:25:15,240 --> 00:25:17,719
Speaker 1: lengths of braid that were woven together into this like

414
00:25:17,800 --> 00:25:22,200
Speaker 1: five by ten tapestry. And we had this one elder

415
00:25:22,200 --> 00:25:24,760
Speaker 1: who came and sat with us one day and was

416
00:25:24,800 --> 00:25:27,240
Speaker 1: like telling us about her residential school experience and was

417
00:25:27,280 --> 00:25:31,080
Speaker 1: talking about how seeing all these braids woven together was

418
00:25:31,119 --> 00:25:34,439
Speaker 1: like so powerful to her because and this was not,

419
00:25:34,760 --> 00:25:36,920
Speaker 1: you know, not something I had really thought about beforehand.

420
00:25:36,920 --> 00:25:39,520
Speaker 1: But she was talking about how like, you know, you

421
00:25:39,520 --> 00:25:41,800
Speaker 1: would see all the hair too, like after all the

422
00:25:41,840 --> 00:25:43,679
Speaker 1: kids had had their hair cut off, just like swept

423
00:25:43,720 --> 00:25:45,439
Speaker 1: to the side, you know, like all these braids like

424
00:25:45,440 --> 00:25:48,600
Speaker 1: on the ground. Um, So it holds a lot of

425
00:25:48,640 --> 00:25:52,400
Speaker 1: cultural significance in that way. Yeah, that scene was. Yeah,

426
00:25:52,480 --> 00:25:56,720
Speaker 1: that scene was devastating. And also if you don't really

427
00:25:56,720 --> 00:25:58,440
Speaker 1: know whether she planned or not to get sent to

428
00:25:58,480 --> 00:26:00,280
Speaker 1: Stiffen as all of a sudden, you're like, our hero

429
00:26:00,480 --> 00:26:02,760
Speaker 1: is in this peril. You know, you don't know what's

430
00:26:02,760 --> 00:26:05,720
Speaker 1: going to happen to our next, right, So it's either

431
00:26:05,840 --> 00:26:11,000
Speaker 1: like a huge deliberate sacrifice or just her kind of

432
00:26:11,880 --> 00:26:18,040
Speaker 1: falling victim to these horrible circumstances. Yeah. So while this

433
00:26:18,119 --> 00:26:22,520
Speaker 1: is happening, her friends solo Angus and then there's another

434
00:26:23,240 --> 00:26:26,520
Speaker 1: friend of theirs who I'd never caught the name of Maytag.

435
00:26:26,960 --> 00:26:31,920
Speaker 1: Is that Maytag? Okay, So they are prepping for this

436
00:26:32,160 --> 00:26:36,480
Speaker 1: heist and they go into the school, they break out,

437
00:26:36,760 --> 00:26:40,000
Speaker 1: They rig up the plumbing so that literal human shit

438
00:26:40,760 --> 00:26:47,400
Speaker 1: comes out when Popper turns on the shower, which so satisfying,

439
00:26:49,600 --> 00:26:53,720
Speaker 1: really good stuff and like a whole bunch of like

440
00:26:54,040 --> 00:26:56,520
Speaker 1: male full frontal nudity. Not that it was like you

441
00:26:56,560 --> 00:26:59,960
Speaker 1: were wanting it, that's the same, but it's like independent

442
00:27:00,040 --> 00:27:02,080
Speaker 1: Canadian film where you get to see like a whole

443
00:27:02,119 --> 00:27:07,000
Speaker 1: lot of dick there, like to see a little bit

444
00:27:07,040 --> 00:27:12,600
Speaker 1: of shit rainting on full frontal. Right, you're just like

445
00:27:13,320 --> 00:27:16,240
Speaker 1: you deserve this, yeah, and it's just at the lowest

446
00:27:16,280 --> 00:27:19,200
Speaker 1: moment in that moment, and you're just like, so good

447
00:27:19,800 --> 00:27:22,560
Speaker 1: the Catharsis that's been. That's been kind of I feel

448
00:27:22,560 --> 00:27:24,160
Speaker 1: like a discussion that's been picking up in the last

449
00:27:24,160 --> 00:27:28,040
Speaker 1: couple of years of like how rare male nudity is

450
00:27:28,320 --> 00:27:31,920
Speaker 1: shown period, and then on top of that, when it

451
00:27:32,000 --> 00:27:37,119
Speaker 1: is shown, like the way it shown is never humiliating,

452
00:27:37,320 --> 00:27:40,200
Speaker 1: which whatever speaks to who is making most movies. But

453
00:27:40,720 --> 00:27:44,480
Speaker 1: it was that's true, right, very satisfying to see him

454
00:27:44,560 --> 00:27:48,800
Speaker 1: humiliated in such a like primal way. I don't know, Yeah,

455
00:27:48,920 --> 00:27:51,800
Speaker 1: oh totally, And especially because you've you've sort of spent

456
00:27:51,840 --> 00:27:54,840
Speaker 1: the entire movie up to this point just watching him

457
00:27:54,840 --> 00:27:57,280
Speaker 1: and his guns kick the ship at it everybody, right,

458
00:27:58,160 --> 00:28:02,000
Speaker 1: And it's like I remember remember seeing this So when

459
00:28:02,000 --> 00:28:03,879
Speaker 1: I originally saw this film, I saw it at a

460
00:28:03,960 --> 00:28:07,680
Speaker 1: festival and at that point in the film when Happers

461
00:28:07,760 --> 00:28:10,159
Speaker 1: like lying on the bathroom floor covered in ship just

462
00:28:10,200 --> 00:28:13,480
Speaker 1: like I'm gonna get you people that the audience were

463
00:28:13,520 --> 00:28:17,160
Speaker 1: like cheering. It was amazing, you know because like the

464
00:28:17,280 --> 00:28:19,359
Speaker 1: end of Get Up, people were like full on like

465
00:28:19,480 --> 00:28:25,199
Speaker 1: being like, yeah, oh my gosh, yeah, this would have

466
00:28:25,240 --> 00:28:28,760
Speaker 1: been a cool movie to see in theaters, damnit it was.

467
00:28:28,880 --> 00:28:31,119
Speaker 1: It got a really limited release, so I was coaching

468
00:28:31,200 --> 00:28:34,800
Speaker 1: to see at a festival. But we'll talk about that.

469
00:28:34,800 --> 00:28:37,200
Speaker 1: It's also something we need to like, Yeah, I think

470
00:28:37,200 --> 00:28:42,200
Speaker 1: people need to think about sometimes for sure. Yeah, definitely. Um,

471
00:28:42,440 --> 00:28:45,640
Speaker 1: so he's covered in ship. Meanwhile, they steal the money

472
00:28:45,640 --> 00:28:48,640
Speaker 1: out of his safe and run away. They get away

473
00:28:48,680 --> 00:28:53,000
Speaker 1: with I think twenty dollars. But when when Aila gets

474
00:28:53,080 --> 00:28:57,160
Speaker 1: back home, she finds out that her grandmother, Sarah's, has

475
00:28:57,240 --> 00:29:02,280
Speaker 1: been killed by Popper's thugs. And then when Popper comes

476
00:29:02,480 --> 00:29:06,800
Speaker 1: for Ala, he beats her, he's about to rape her,

477
00:29:07,360 --> 00:29:10,760
Speaker 1: but then little Juji shows up with a gun and

478
00:29:11,040 --> 00:29:15,840
Speaker 1: another very cathartic moment blows Popper's head off. AILA's father

479
00:29:15,920 --> 00:29:19,040
Speaker 1: takes the fall for it again. He gets carted off

480
00:29:19,040 --> 00:29:22,640
Speaker 1: to prison again, and then the story ends with, um,

481
00:29:22,680 --> 00:29:24,920
Speaker 1: a is it is that a family friend or a

482
00:29:24,960 --> 00:29:29,840
Speaker 1: relative Jisugu or juice Agu? I wasn't sure. The old

483
00:29:29,880 --> 00:29:34,960
Speaker 1: man Yeah yeah, yeah, so he's like he's like a

484
00:29:35,000 --> 00:29:38,360
Speaker 1: family friend. Okay, there's a lot of like on small reserves.

485
00:29:39,200 --> 00:29:42,720
Speaker 1: We always jerked it's like, well, everybody's related like somehow.

486
00:29:42,760 --> 00:29:45,920
Speaker 1: It's like they're probably related somehow, right. Yeah. He was

487
00:29:45,960 --> 00:29:48,760
Speaker 1: the guy who earlier in the story had also there

488
00:29:48,640 --> 00:29:51,040
Speaker 1: were there was talk of him having aged a thousand

489
00:29:51,160 --> 00:29:53,560
Speaker 1: years because he had gone to fight in World War

490
00:29:53,680 --> 00:29:57,440
Speaker 1: Two and came back like a thousand years older because

491
00:29:57,440 --> 00:30:00,160
Speaker 1: he had lied about his age, saying he was older

492
00:30:00,160 --> 00:30:03,320
Speaker 1: than he was to be able to fight and then um,

493
00:30:03,360 --> 00:30:07,120
Speaker 1: you know, experience a trauma of war and then came back. Um.

494
00:30:07,200 --> 00:30:09,160
Speaker 1: And he gives a La a really interesting piece of

495
00:30:09,160 --> 00:30:11,920
Speaker 1: advice during that conversation too that they're having when when

496
00:30:12,000 --> 00:30:15,080
Speaker 1: they talk about him being a thousand years older, because

497
00:30:15,080 --> 00:30:17,160
Speaker 1: he's the only other character that here referred to in

498
00:30:17,280 --> 00:30:20,680
Speaker 1: that way, and he says this thing that I ended

499
00:30:20,760 --> 00:30:23,520
Speaker 1: up picking up on and and I ended up reading

500
00:30:23,520 --> 00:30:26,239
Speaker 1: a couple of articles about it. Two of like you know,

501
00:30:26,600 --> 00:30:29,920
Speaker 1: he's like courage is sometimes moving with the dead, you know,

502
00:30:30,000 --> 00:30:31,840
Speaker 1: like as like bodies were sort of piling up, you know,

503
00:30:31,880 --> 00:30:34,880
Speaker 1: it's like you have to keep moving. And I think

504
00:30:34,920 --> 00:30:38,720
Speaker 1: that that's almost an interesting like thesis point. I think

505
00:30:38,760 --> 00:30:41,440
Speaker 1: for like what Ala is doing in a certain way

506
00:30:41,440 --> 00:30:44,760
Speaker 1: of sort of like despite everything, like having to like

507
00:30:45,000 --> 00:30:48,000
Speaker 1: keep moving forward, Like you know, they're going to be

508
00:30:48,480 --> 00:30:50,640
Speaker 1: casualties along the way, but it's like you have to

509
00:30:50,720 --> 00:30:54,840
Speaker 1: keep moving forward because otherwise you're one of them, you know, right.

510
00:30:55,280 --> 00:30:59,440
Speaker 1: So yeah, so he's an interesting character. Um. He pops

511
00:30:59,480 --> 00:31:01,560
Speaker 1: up a little bit Blood Quantum too. It's interesting because

512
00:31:01,560 --> 00:31:04,440
Speaker 1: Blood Quantum also takes place on the Red Crow Reserve

513
00:31:04,560 --> 00:31:08,680
Speaker 1: and but in like a parallel universe. So because of

514
00:31:08,720 --> 00:31:13,360
Speaker 1: the fish Mitten's Strip club is also in Blood Quantum. Yeah.

515
00:31:14,240 --> 00:31:18,320
Speaker 1: I love an expanded universe, that's all right. Yeah. So

516
00:31:18,320 --> 00:31:20,640
Speaker 1: so there's like these interesting sort of like crossover points

517
00:31:20,680 --> 00:31:22,840
Speaker 1: that kind of happened where like and a lot of

518
00:31:22,840 --> 00:31:24,880
Speaker 1: the folks I think in the film weren't actors. I

519
00:31:24,880 --> 00:31:27,720
Speaker 1: think that like some of them are just like people

520
00:31:27,840 --> 00:31:29,840
Speaker 1: who maybe had a little bit of like outside of

521
00:31:30,000 --> 00:31:35,080
Speaker 1: the main cast, who are like Canadian indigenous, like film Royalty. Um,

522
00:31:35,080 --> 00:31:38,240
Speaker 1: Glenn Gould has been in everything like you don't make

523
00:31:38,520 --> 00:31:40,240
Speaker 1: like you don't make a native film in Canada and

524
00:31:40,280 --> 00:31:43,760
Speaker 1: not include Glenn Gould because what are you doing? Who

525
00:31:43,840 --> 00:31:47,080
Speaker 1: plays Joseph in the film. He's incredible. I mean that

526
00:31:47,320 --> 00:31:50,280
Speaker 1: like the scene that I think like, I mean stuck

527
00:31:50,280 --> 00:31:53,560
Speaker 1: out to me. I'm sure everybody was. The scene at

528
00:31:53,640 --> 00:31:59,160
Speaker 1: his wife's grave was just so it's just like, yeah,

529
00:31:59,320 --> 00:32:04,440
Speaker 1: he was. He's incredible. Um Okay, So then uh, this

530
00:32:04,520 --> 00:32:08,000
Speaker 1: character shows up who we've seen here and there. Um,

531
00:32:08,200 --> 00:32:10,280
Speaker 1: it's just saying like Aila, I don't want you. I

532
00:32:10,280 --> 00:32:12,880
Speaker 1: don't want you to work in this drug trade anymore.

533
00:32:12,920 --> 00:32:16,080
Speaker 1: And she's like, good, I don't want to either. And

534
00:32:16,120 --> 00:32:19,480
Speaker 1: then um Jujis the little Boy comes back and he's

535
00:32:19,480 --> 00:32:21,400
Speaker 1: like Okay, now what do we do boss? And she's

536
00:32:21,480 --> 00:32:26,480
Speaker 1: like I don't know. And that's how the movie ends. Um,

537
00:32:26,560 --> 00:32:28,800
Speaker 1: let's take a quick break and then we'll come back

538
00:32:28,960 --> 00:32:42,000
Speaker 1: for discussion and we're back. Yes, where shall we begin? Well,

539
00:32:42,120 --> 00:32:45,280
Speaker 1: I think it's probably helpful to to provide some historical

540
00:32:45,360 --> 00:32:50,479
Speaker 1: context for the residential school system, because you really have

541
00:32:50,520 --> 00:32:53,680
Speaker 1: to have an understanding of what that is to appreciate

542
00:32:53,840 --> 00:32:57,080
Speaker 1: the events of this film and why the characters are

543
00:32:57,960 --> 00:33:01,480
Speaker 1: doing everything that they do to not have to go

544
00:33:01,800 --> 00:33:04,720
Speaker 1: to a residential school for sure. And I think that

545
00:33:04,760 --> 00:33:06,480
Speaker 1: would be good to to talk a little bit about

546
00:33:08,080 --> 00:33:10,959
Speaker 1: the a little bit about reserves, and a little bit

547
00:33:10,960 --> 00:33:13,959
Speaker 1: about the Indian Act, because I think that there's like

548
00:33:14,720 --> 00:33:17,720
Speaker 1: there's layers to this, right, It's not just the residential school.

549
00:33:17,880 --> 00:33:21,680
Speaker 1: It's like it's everything you know, and um, this time

550
00:33:21,760 --> 00:33:23,640
Speaker 1: watching it through too, I was thinking a lot about

551
00:33:23,680 --> 00:33:26,640
Speaker 1: like the violence in the film and thinking about how

552
00:33:26,640 --> 00:33:28,920
Speaker 1: it's sort of it's incessant, like it's it's just like

553
00:33:29,000 --> 00:33:32,400
Speaker 1: around every corner, like it was just biking down the

554
00:33:32,480 --> 00:33:34,560
Speaker 1: road at one point, and like somebody like comes out

555
00:33:34,600 --> 00:33:38,120
Speaker 1: of nowhere and punches her and like and that's, you know,

556
00:33:38,160 --> 00:33:41,560
Speaker 1: such a visual metaphor for I think what it feels

557
00:33:41,560 --> 00:33:45,240
Speaker 1: like sometimes to be a like a marginalized person, whether

558
00:33:45,360 --> 00:33:47,520
Speaker 1: it's you know, your your black, Indigenous or like a

559
00:33:47,520 --> 00:33:49,680
Speaker 1: person of color, or whether you're trans or whether you're

560
00:33:50,280 --> 00:33:53,920
Speaker 1: differently abled. Like I think that there's like a sense

561
00:33:53,960 --> 00:33:55,920
Speaker 1: sometimes of like things can come out of nowhere and

562
00:33:55,960 --> 00:34:00,360
Speaker 1: kind of like knock you on your ass. Um So, yeah,

563
00:34:00,440 --> 00:34:02,160
Speaker 1: just to talk a little bit about and and like

564
00:34:02,160 --> 00:34:05,440
Speaker 1: feel free to jump into um. But yeah, so talk

565
00:34:05,520 --> 00:34:08,680
Speaker 1: to talk a little bit about the Indian Act, because

566
00:34:08,680 --> 00:34:10,799
Speaker 1: that's kind of where it all starts off, right. So

567
00:34:10,880 --> 00:34:16,240
Speaker 1: the Indian Act was officially passed in eighteen seventies six.

568
00:34:17,320 --> 00:34:19,759
Speaker 1: I hope there's no like Canadian history buffs who are

569
00:34:19,800 --> 00:34:22,160
Speaker 1: like like to check in my because like it's the

570
00:34:22,160 --> 00:34:24,959
Speaker 1: one like I can remember meeting a person ten years

571
00:34:24,960 --> 00:34:27,319
Speaker 1: ago for like fifteen minutes, but I cannot remember dates

572
00:34:27,320 --> 00:34:30,719
Speaker 1: for the life Most of our most of our listenership

573
00:34:30,760 --> 00:34:35,719
Speaker 1: are Canadian history scholars. So but I do believe that

574
00:34:35,800 --> 00:34:38,040
Speaker 1: data is correct. Yes, okay, I have that in my

575
00:34:38,080 --> 00:34:42,400
Speaker 1: notes as well. Awesome. Yeah, so the but before that,

576
00:34:42,440 --> 00:34:44,680
Speaker 1: there had been sort of a patchwork of different colonial

577
00:34:44,760 --> 00:34:47,960
Speaker 1: laws that had existed, and then sort of when Canada

578
00:34:48,640 --> 00:34:51,160
Speaker 1: became like a country as opposed to sort of different

579
00:34:51,320 --> 00:34:54,120
Speaker 1: like sort of colonies, you know, like between like New

580
00:34:54,160 --> 00:34:57,000
Speaker 1: France and Upper Canada and Lower Canada, that it was

581
00:34:57,000 --> 00:34:58,560
Speaker 1: sort of brought into law and a sort of more

582
00:34:58,560 --> 00:35:03,360
Speaker 1: official sense. And the Indian Act. The short version of

583
00:35:03,360 --> 00:35:05,880
Speaker 1: the Indian Act is that it was legislation that was

584
00:35:05,960 --> 00:35:12,000
Speaker 1: designed to very literally like legislate out of existence indigenous people,

585
00:35:12,560 --> 00:35:14,319
Speaker 1: and it did that through a number of ways. So

586
00:35:15,320 --> 00:35:18,799
Speaker 1: the residential schools which we're talking more about, we're part

587
00:35:18,880 --> 00:35:23,360
Speaker 1: of the Indian Act, this idea that you'll civilize and

588
00:35:23,400 --> 00:35:28,840
Speaker 1: abusing air quotes, you'll civilize Indian genious children and assimilate

589
00:35:28,880 --> 00:35:33,160
Speaker 1: them into Canadian society. The Indian Act also, you know,

590
00:35:33,280 --> 00:35:37,320
Speaker 1: targeted women. Uh So, if you were an Indigenous woman

591
00:35:37,840 --> 00:35:41,080
Speaker 1: and you married a non indigenous man, you lost your

592
00:35:41,080 --> 00:35:46,400
Speaker 1: status and indigenous status, our native status, which exists in

593
00:35:46,440 --> 00:35:48,840
Speaker 1: the United States as well, uh is sort of like

594
00:35:48,880 --> 00:35:52,440
Speaker 1: your only pathways for being able to access things like

595
00:35:53,000 --> 00:35:57,239
Speaker 1: on reserve housing, like certain like educational like scholarships and

596
00:35:57,280 --> 00:35:59,600
Speaker 1: benefits and things like that are only accessible through your

597
00:36:00,200 --> 00:36:03,640
Speaker 1: status card. There's other services and things like that that

598
00:36:03,680 --> 00:36:06,520
Speaker 1: are only accessible through your status card. So losing your status,

599
00:36:06,920 --> 00:36:08,799
Speaker 1: you know, it was a big deal, and so we

600
00:36:08,880 --> 00:36:12,600
Speaker 1: often referred to when women married on indigenous men. It's

601
00:36:12,600 --> 00:36:15,120
Speaker 1: happened a lot in the you know, early days of

602
00:36:15,200 --> 00:36:18,799
Speaker 1: Canada as marrying out because it was essentially like, well,

603
00:36:18,840 --> 00:36:21,760
Speaker 1: now you're out of the culture, goodbye, one less Indian.

604
00:36:22,640 --> 00:36:26,240
Speaker 1: And you know, there were other other things like the

605
00:36:26,239 --> 00:36:29,600
Speaker 1: the Indian Act did you couldn't leave the reserve to

606
00:36:29,640 --> 00:36:32,360
Speaker 1: get a higher education. You couldn't just like leave the

607
00:36:32,360 --> 00:36:34,760
Speaker 1: reserve to go see a doctor. There was a whole

608
00:36:34,800 --> 00:36:37,880
Speaker 1: system of passes that Indigenous people had to have for

609
00:36:37,920 --> 00:36:40,200
Speaker 1: a long time. Like it was essentially like a passport

610
00:36:40,280 --> 00:36:43,440
Speaker 1: that said like okay, I'm leaving my reserve now, and

611
00:36:43,520 --> 00:36:47,040
Speaker 1: that you know, there was no thought given to It's

612
00:36:47,080 --> 00:36:50,280
Speaker 1: like okay, well we don't have a hospital on reserve,

613
00:36:50,360 --> 00:36:53,360
Speaker 1: I have to leave the reserve to go to the hospital.

614
00:36:53,440 --> 00:36:54,960
Speaker 1: Or even just like I want to go visit a

615
00:36:54,960 --> 00:36:57,319
Speaker 1: friend on a different reserve, like you'd have to like

616
00:36:57,440 --> 00:36:59,960
Speaker 1: have that passport signed off on by the Indian age

617
00:37:00,000 --> 00:37:04,400
Speaker 1: it who could also say no. So people's movement was

618
00:37:04,440 --> 00:37:09,239
Speaker 1: really controlled. People's lives were really controlled, and like I said,

619
00:37:09,280 --> 00:37:13,680
Speaker 1: you know, disproportionately. The Indian Act targeted children and women

620
00:37:14,200 --> 00:37:16,440
Speaker 1: through things like the residential school system, through things like

621
00:37:16,880 --> 00:37:20,080
Speaker 1: losing status if you married out, which wasn't applied to men.

622
00:37:20,120 --> 00:37:23,319
Speaker 1: If men, if Indigenous men married non Indigenous women, they're

623
00:37:23,320 --> 00:37:26,399
Speaker 1: non indigenous wives would get status and all their children

624
00:37:26,440 --> 00:37:30,640
Speaker 1: would get status and they were able to remain a

625
00:37:30,680 --> 00:37:35,520
Speaker 1: part of their communities. Jesus Christ. So it's it's like

626
00:37:35,560 --> 00:37:39,360
Speaker 1: it's not even like, uh, it's so blatant. It's almost

627
00:37:39,400 --> 00:37:41,200
Speaker 1: like a Bond villain who's like, and then I'm going

628
00:37:41,239 --> 00:37:43,000
Speaker 1: to set up the laser and then it's going to

629
00:37:43,040 --> 00:37:44,680
Speaker 1: catch you in half, and then I'm going to take

630
00:37:44,680 --> 00:37:48,160
Speaker 1: over the world. It's like the Canadian government essentially said

631
00:37:48,239 --> 00:37:52,680
Speaker 1: from the beginning, we don't want any more Indigenous people,

632
00:37:53,160 --> 00:37:55,279
Speaker 1: and this is what we're gonna do to get rid

633
00:37:55,320 --> 00:37:58,799
Speaker 1: of them. Um. However, the double edged sword of the

634
00:37:58,800 --> 00:38:01,320
Speaker 1: Indian of the Indian Act, you know, and you're I

635
00:38:01,360 --> 00:38:03,160
Speaker 1: can imagine it's sort of like, well, if it's so

636
00:38:03,280 --> 00:38:07,279
Speaker 1: terrible and so sexist and so racist, just get rid

637
00:38:07,320 --> 00:38:12,200
Speaker 1: of it. Unfortunately, it's really one of the major legislative

638
00:38:12,239 --> 00:38:15,320
Speaker 1: tools that we have in Canada as Indigenous people to

639
00:38:15,320 --> 00:38:17,719
Speaker 1: be able to hold the federal government accountable because it

640
00:38:17,760 --> 00:38:24,360
Speaker 1: defined what an Indigenous person is so which is just

641
00:38:24,560 --> 00:38:32,279
Speaker 1: like magnitudes of frustrating absolutely so. Originally, and this this

642
00:38:32,360 --> 00:38:37,000
Speaker 1: ties into the film. In nineteen sixty nine, Pierre Elliott Trudeau,

643
00:38:37,040 --> 00:38:41,120
Speaker 1: who's Justin Trudeau's daddy, was Prime Minister at the time

644
00:38:41,640 --> 00:38:47,440
Speaker 1: and he introduced this essentially this act that would have

645
00:38:47,440 --> 00:38:49,239
Speaker 1: gotten rid of the Indian Act this is so this

646
00:38:49,280 --> 00:38:52,879
Speaker 1: is the nineteen nine This paper ended up becoming called

647
00:38:52,920 --> 00:38:57,480
Speaker 1: the White Paper, and it was this really catalyzing moment

648
00:38:57,560 --> 00:39:01,560
Speaker 1: for a lot of what we call red power or

649
00:39:01,600 --> 00:39:04,720
Speaker 1: like an indigenous like civil rights movement sort of stuff

650
00:39:04,719 --> 00:39:07,840
Speaker 1: began happening because, you know, people were really hit to

651
00:39:07,840 --> 00:39:09,480
Speaker 1: the idea that like, if we get rid of the

652
00:39:09,480 --> 00:39:11,600
Speaker 1: status of Indian, which is what it would have been

653
00:39:11,640 --> 00:39:15,319
Speaker 1: called at the time, then the government doesn't legally have

654
00:39:15,600 --> 00:39:19,839
Speaker 1: any enforceable responsibility towards Indians. If Indians don't exist, they

655
00:39:19,840 --> 00:39:25,560
Speaker 1: don't exist. Does that make sense right, Yes, it makes

656
00:39:25,600 --> 00:39:30,239
Speaker 1: sense the way you're explaining. It's just that that's so

657
00:39:30,440 --> 00:39:34,399
Speaker 1: there's so many layers of mind fuckery going on. Oh yeah,

658
00:39:34,480 --> 00:39:37,319
Speaker 1: it's it's a whole. Like it's a whole. Taramis Sioux

659
00:39:37,920 --> 00:39:41,440
Speaker 1: of like fucked up, which is terrible. I shouldn't do

660
00:39:41,520 --> 00:39:47,080
Speaker 1: that to Taramisious. Termisus was like taramistous will recovery. Taramisus

661
00:39:47,080 --> 00:39:49,520
Speaker 1: has got a good rap people looking can come back

662
00:39:49,560 --> 00:39:52,680
Speaker 1: from this. But yeah, so so what the solution has

663
00:39:52,719 --> 00:39:55,839
Speaker 1: sort of become, you know, is because we can't get

664
00:39:55,960 --> 00:39:59,000
Speaker 1: rid of the Indian Acts, sort of amend it and

665
00:39:59,280 --> 00:40:01,319
Speaker 1: a lot of these are endments, I think sort of

666
00:40:01,320 --> 00:40:05,200
Speaker 1: the most recent big push of amendments. There's little things

667
00:40:05,239 --> 00:40:07,080
Speaker 1: going through all the time, but I think two thousand

668
00:40:07,160 --> 00:40:08,600
Speaker 1: and two was like a big push of like a

669
00:40:08,600 --> 00:40:11,200
Speaker 1: whole bunch of amendments to it. In the eighties, we

670
00:40:11,239 --> 00:40:14,239
Speaker 1: had a big push of amendments that allowed women who

671
00:40:14,239 --> 00:40:17,600
Speaker 1: had lost their status through marriage to get their status back,

672
00:40:17,719 --> 00:40:21,200
Speaker 1: which was a huge thing. Um. You know, I had

673
00:40:21,239 --> 00:40:23,800
Speaker 1: a I have a friend who you know, at that

674
00:40:23,840 --> 00:40:27,200
Speaker 1: point in time, was already you know, like a teenager,

675
00:40:27,400 --> 00:40:30,400
Speaker 1: and she talks about how important it was like that

676
00:40:30,440 --> 00:40:32,480
Speaker 1: moment when her mom gets status back, which meant that

677
00:40:32,520 --> 00:40:36,000
Speaker 1: she could get status and like because even though it

678
00:40:36,080 --> 00:40:39,239
Speaker 1: isn't like like having status is not what makes you

679
00:40:39,280 --> 00:40:43,080
Speaker 1: an indigenous person, sure it still can feel like a

680
00:40:43,160 --> 00:40:47,960
Speaker 1: very significant thing in terms of belonging. Yeah, so it's

681
00:40:48,080 --> 00:40:51,440
Speaker 1: is this whole sort of mess. Unfortunately, um and the

682
00:40:51,480 --> 00:40:54,960
Speaker 1: Indian agents, like we see paper in the film, were

683
00:40:55,000 --> 00:40:59,120
Speaker 1: the enforcers of this incredibly racist law. So Indian agents

684
00:40:59,160 --> 00:41:02,800
Speaker 1: had total, like unchecked control. It was like even worse

685
00:41:02,840 --> 00:41:04,359
Speaker 1: in some ways than sort of like you know how

686
00:41:04,360 --> 00:41:06,120
Speaker 1: we talk about like, oh, you know, the sheriffs in

687
00:41:06,160 --> 00:41:08,680
Speaker 1: the Old West, and you know, they could sort of

688
00:41:08,680 --> 00:41:10,920
Speaker 1: make up the rules as they go along. Indian agents

689
00:41:10,920 --> 00:41:13,840
Speaker 1: were sort of that, except they were white, racist assholes.

690
00:41:14,960 --> 00:41:17,600
Speaker 1: So you know, I've read different things over the years

691
00:41:17,640 --> 00:41:19,600
Speaker 1: about like people talking about how like, oh well as

692
00:41:19,600 --> 00:41:23,000
Speaker 1: Popper's attitude and behavior a little bit extreme, it's like, well,

693
00:41:23,800 --> 00:41:26,000
Speaker 1: like some of the stuff did happen, Like some of

694
00:41:26,000 --> 00:41:28,840
Speaker 1: the stuff we know has happened because we've heard stories

695
00:41:29,719 --> 00:41:33,520
Speaker 1: from people and it's also been documented. You know, by

696
00:41:33,560 --> 00:41:37,120
Speaker 1: the time that we get to the late sixties early seventies,

697
00:41:37,600 --> 00:41:39,719
Speaker 1: the Indian agents were starting to be phased out because

698
00:41:39,719 --> 00:41:43,560
Speaker 1: we were starting to move into a new period in

699
00:41:43,680 --> 00:41:45,440
Speaker 1: terms of like the Indian acting. Like I said, some

700
00:41:45,480 --> 00:41:47,880
Speaker 1: of those like, um, big changes that were to come

701
00:41:47,880 --> 00:41:51,040
Speaker 1: in the eighties, but at the time we still had

702
00:41:51,040 --> 00:41:54,400
Speaker 1: Indian agents that were quite sort of literally allowed to

703
00:41:54,400 --> 00:41:58,400
Speaker 1: do whatever the funk they wanted with impunity. Um, you

704
00:41:58,480 --> 00:42:01,400
Speaker 1: had Indian agents in the States as l and they

705
00:42:01,440 --> 00:42:04,919
Speaker 1: were this maybe chuckle, not because it's funny, but because

706
00:42:04,920 --> 00:42:10,839
Speaker 1: it's sort of again macavillian. The original Indian agents were

707
00:42:11,000 --> 00:42:15,759
Speaker 1: under the U. S. War Department initially, which is like

708
00:42:15,920 --> 00:42:21,880
Speaker 1: very blatantly like, could you be any less like clear

709
00:42:22,040 --> 00:42:26,279
Speaker 1: about how you feel? Yeah, Jesus Christ. Yeah. So so,

710
00:42:26,800 --> 00:42:28,960
Speaker 1: but what happened with the Indian Agans and the States

711
00:42:29,080 --> 00:42:31,439
Speaker 1: is as we moved through the eighteen hundreds and into

712
00:42:31,480 --> 00:42:35,480
Speaker 1: the nineteen hundreds, they sort of transitioned into being superintendents

713
00:42:35,520 --> 00:42:38,920
Speaker 1: for what the American equivalent of residential schools is the

714
00:42:38,920 --> 00:42:43,200
Speaker 1: Indian boarding school system, and they were that position. Shifted

715
00:42:43,280 --> 00:42:47,839
Speaker 1: into more of a civilian role later on, but yeah,

716
00:42:47,920 --> 00:42:51,840
Speaker 1: it was it was like a government Department of war position.

717
00:42:52,000 --> 00:42:55,440
Speaker 1: It was essentially, like I brought up in the Twilight Reading,

718
00:42:55,640 --> 00:42:58,200
Speaker 1: it was to swindle people out of their land whatever

719
00:42:58,239 --> 00:43:02,600
Speaker 1: way you could. And uh, yeah, it was it was

720
00:43:02,640 --> 00:43:05,840
Speaker 1: about like this idea of like manifest destiny. You know,

721
00:43:05,880 --> 00:43:08,600
Speaker 1: it's like, well, we've we've arrived and now it's ours.

722
00:43:08,719 --> 00:43:11,960
Speaker 1: Like yeah. So that's a little bit of a background

723
00:43:12,000 --> 00:43:13,919
Speaker 1: on on the Indian Act. And so, like I said,

724
00:43:13,960 --> 00:43:16,160
Speaker 1: the resident social system was established as part of the

725
00:43:16,160 --> 00:43:21,399
Speaker 1: Indian Act under the mandate of killed the Indian and

726
00:43:21,520 --> 00:43:24,640
Speaker 1: educate the child sort of thing um, which is just

727
00:43:24,760 --> 00:43:29,920
Speaker 1: like a real cool, chill sentiment to have. And so

728
00:43:30,000 --> 00:43:34,239
Speaker 1: they started out, you know, we had Jesuit schools, especially

729
00:43:34,520 --> 00:43:38,879
Speaker 1: UM coming into like New France, so sort of what

730
00:43:39,080 --> 00:43:41,840
Speaker 1: is like Nova Scotia and New Brunswick like part of Quebec,

731
00:43:41,920 --> 00:43:44,719
Speaker 1: like New England sort of area. So we would have

732
00:43:44,719 --> 00:43:48,000
Speaker 1: had like early Jesuit schools and like you know, those

733
00:43:48,040 --> 00:43:50,800
Speaker 1: were a little bit less rigorously sort of organized, and

734
00:43:50,840 --> 00:43:53,800
Speaker 1: those were mostly we're in the sixteen hundreds, some in

735
00:43:53,840 --> 00:43:56,799
Speaker 1: the seventeen hundreds, but like I said, it functioned a

736
00:43:56,840 --> 00:44:00,279
Speaker 1: lot more sort of like uh, what's that where as

737
00:44:00,320 --> 00:44:03,040
Speaker 1: a missionary sort of effort, Like it was like we're

738
00:44:03,040 --> 00:44:08,560
Speaker 1: going to go on christianize this. There's nothing colonial about this, No,

739
00:44:09,000 --> 00:44:11,840
Speaker 1: We're just talking about Jesus. And it's really interesting because

740
00:44:11,840 --> 00:44:15,640
Speaker 1: we from that the Magma converted to Christianity in sixteen

741
00:44:15,680 --> 00:44:18,319
Speaker 1: o four, and like a lot of that had to

742
00:44:18,320 --> 00:44:21,960
Speaker 1: do with the presence of like Jeesuit missionaries in MCMAGI

743
00:44:22,080 --> 00:44:25,040
Speaker 1: and MGMA territory at the time. But moving out of

744
00:44:25,080 --> 00:44:29,240
Speaker 1: that period, moving into the moving into the nineteenth century,

745
00:44:29,880 --> 00:44:32,360
Speaker 1: UM is when we sort of get officially into the

746
00:44:33,160 --> 00:44:36,359
Speaker 1: like what we call the residential school period. And these

747
00:44:36,400 --> 00:44:42,880
Speaker 1: were schools that we're government funded, managed by Christian churches,

748
00:44:43,080 --> 00:44:45,800
Speaker 1: So there was like different denominations that were involved in The

749
00:44:45,760 --> 00:44:48,120
Speaker 1: The Roman Catholic Church was a big one of course,

750
00:44:48,520 --> 00:44:53,719
Speaker 1: but like there were Presbyterians, um, I think Anglican Anglicans. Yeah,

751
00:44:53,760 --> 00:44:57,440
Speaker 1: the Church of England was very big, just kind of

752
00:44:57,960 --> 00:45:01,279
Speaker 1: not facilitating getting all ripped up on my words, but

753
00:45:01,400 --> 00:45:03,799
Speaker 1: like essentially administering the schools, so like they were all

754
00:45:03,880 --> 00:45:06,520
Speaker 1: run by nuns and priests and and like Lake Herd

755
00:45:06,800 --> 00:45:10,759
Speaker 1: Clergy as sort of like the the only attendance at

756
00:45:10,760 --> 00:45:14,480
Speaker 1: the school. And and we estimate that about a hundred

757
00:45:14,520 --> 00:45:17,759
Speaker 1: and fifty thousand children Indigenous children in Canada went to

758
00:45:18,040 --> 00:45:21,520
Speaker 1: residential school And is it is it safe to I?

759
00:45:21,520 --> 00:45:24,760
Speaker 1: I just um for our listeners who are not fully

760
00:45:24,760 --> 00:45:26,680
Speaker 1: clear and what the intent was the intent of the

761
00:45:26,719 --> 00:45:30,920
Speaker 1: school is to take your culture from you and replace

762
00:45:31,000 --> 00:45:33,480
Speaker 1: it with something else. Yeah, it was essentially that it

763
00:45:33,560 --> 00:45:35,440
Speaker 1: was this idea that like like I said, you know,

764
00:45:35,520 --> 00:45:38,320
Speaker 1: like it's the the idea of like killing the Indian

765
00:45:38,360 --> 00:45:41,520
Speaker 1: through education. So you'd be taken away from your community,

766
00:45:41,960 --> 00:45:45,600
Speaker 1: you'd be taken out of your language, so you only

767
00:45:45,640 --> 00:45:49,200
Speaker 1: spoke English at residential school. Um, they would cut off

768
00:45:49,200 --> 00:45:50,920
Speaker 1: your braids much like we see in the movie. You

769
00:45:50,920 --> 00:45:57,160
Speaker 1: would be wearing Western clothing. Um, you'd only be educated educated, uh,

770
00:45:57,160 --> 00:46:00,759
Speaker 1: and sort of like European centric, like his story and

771
00:46:00,800 --> 00:46:04,359
Speaker 1: like customs and mannerisms. Um. In the States more than

772
00:46:04,400 --> 00:46:08,760
Speaker 1: in Canada, there was also like this idea of vocational training.

773
00:46:09,719 --> 00:46:14,360
Speaker 1: But yeah, it was it was about westernizing indigenous indigenous

774
00:46:14,440 --> 00:46:17,640
Speaker 1: kids because they were seen as being savages. Yeah, I

775
00:46:18,120 --> 00:46:22,120
Speaker 1: like it was forced assimilation. Um. And then in addition

776
00:46:22,160 --> 00:46:25,239
Speaker 1: to that, it was also the like officials at these

777
00:46:25,280 --> 00:46:32,560
Speaker 1: schools inflicting severe amounts of emotional, physical, and sexual abuse

778
00:46:32,840 --> 00:46:36,440
Speaker 1: upon the children. A lot of children died in the

779
00:46:36,520 --> 00:46:40,600
Speaker 1: residential school system throughout the years. There was a lot

780
00:46:40,600 --> 00:46:44,040
Speaker 1: of like malnutrition I read I even read some cases

781
00:46:44,080 --> 00:46:48,680
Speaker 1: of like experiments being done on the children. Yeah, and

782
00:46:48,719 --> 00:46:51,960
Speaker 1: there was just like not really much education happening. It

783
00:46:52,040 --> 00:46:55,640
Speaker 1: was just abuse. No. And that's sort of the problem, right,

784
00:46:55,719 --> 00:46:59,759
Speaker 1: is that their primary goal was was forced assimilation. You know,

785
00:46:59,760 --> 00:47:03,280
Speaker 1: they're goal wasn't a sort of build young people up

786
00:47:03,360 --> 00:47:05,839
Speaker 1: so that they'd be able to stand in the world afterwards,

787
00:47:05,880 --> 00:47:08,600
Speaker 1: you know, like um, like one would hope that the

788
00:47:08,680 --> 00:47:11,480
Speaker 1: education system does to some degree. It was it was

789
00:47:11,520 --> 00:47:15,680
Speaker 1: really about like you are bad, you are dirty. We're

790
00:47:15,719 --> 00:47:18,759
Speaker 1: going to make you clean and pure and you know,

791
00:47:18,840 --> 00:47:21,000
Speaker 1: we can't bleach you, but we'll make you as white

792
00:47:21,040 --> 00:47:25,200
Speaker 1: as possible. Um. You know, it estimated now that about

793
00:47:25,239 --> 00:47:28,520
Speaker 1: six thousand children died as a result of the regidential

794
00:47:28,520 --> 00:47:34,640
Speaker 1: school system. However, those numbers don't take into account. Well one,

795
00:47:34,960 --> 00:47:37,359
Speaker 1: you know, the records are not complete. A lot of

796
00:47:37,360 --> 00:47:41,200
Speaker 1: schools as they were shutting down, you know, especially in

797
00:47:41,239 --> 00:47:44,719
Speaker 1: the eighties and nineties, you know, burned records just like

798
00:47:45,160 --> 00:47:48,080
Speaker 1: wholesale got rid of stuff. Was like we don't know,

799
00:47:48,800 --> 00:47:52,120
Speaker 1: graves were often not marked. So there's been a whole

800
00:47:52,160 --> 00:47:54,920
Speaker 1: pro process even now sort of like trying to figure

801
00:47:54,960 --> 00:47:58,000
Speaker 1: out like people trying to figure out where their relatives

802
00:47:58,000 --> 00:48:01,279
Speaker 1: are buried. Conditions in school were really terrible, you know,

803
00:48:01,360 --> 00:48:04,719
Speaker 1: so kids were not only dying of like malnutrition, but

804
00:48:04,760 --> 00:48:10,560
Speaker 1: also disease, also of abuse. Like at times the abuse

805
00:48:10,600 --> 00:48:12,719
Speaker 1: would be so severe, Like there was one case that

806
00:48:12,800 --> 00:48:16,440
Speaker 1: I was reading about where the children were routinely like

807
00:48:16,520 --> 00:48:20,120
Speaker 1: electrocuted and like small doses, and sometimes they would die

808
00:48:20,280 --> 00:48:24,000
Speaker 1: because they were like as a punishment being electrocuted. And

809
00:48:24,080 --> 00:48:27,160
Speaker 1: that doesn't even take into account the I think what

810
00:48:27,200 --> 00:48:30,319
Speaker 1: we see through ALA's parents is like the after effects

811
00:48:30,440 --> 00:48:33,879
Speaker 1: of that abuse and how if you do make it out,

812
00:48:34,960 --> 00:48:37,920
Speaker 1: what is life like after that, you know, coping with

813
00:48:37,960 --> 00:48:43,000
Speaker 1: all that? Yeah trauma, Oh exactly. And you know that's

814
00:48:43,040 --> 00:48:45,399
Speaker 1: just it too. Like how many people, you know, their

815
00:48:45,400 --> 00:48:48,840
Speaker 1: whole lives have had to struggle with you know, the

816
00:48:49,200 --> 00:48:52,040
Speaker 1: weight of that abuse have you know, people who have

817
00:48:52,200 --> 00:48:55,879
Speaker 1: died by suicide, Like, yeah, it's it's it's a very

818
00:48:55,920 --> 00:48:58,520
Speaker 1: hard thing to put a number on, you know, the

819
00:48:58,520 --> 00:49:02,160
Speaker 1: fatalities of of people coming up through the residential school

820
00:49:02,160 --> 00:49:05,400
Speaker 1: system because it was this terrible, terrible, terrible, terrible machine

821
00:49:05,560 --> 00:49:08,040
Speaker 1: that just like like I said, you know, it was

822
00:49:08,120 --> 00:49:11,319
Speaker 1: meant to get rid of what the prime minister at

823
00:49:11,320 --> 00:49:13,520
Speaker 1: the times for John and McDonald, which was he was

824
00:49:13,560 --> 00:49:17,480
Speaker 1: like very famous Canadian prime minister from my back when

825
00:49:17,560 --> 00:49:19,640
Speaker 1: Canada was sort of created as a country. You know,

826
00:49:19,680 --> 00:49:22,520
Speaker 1: like he was like the Indian problem that people were

827
00:49:22,520 --> 00:49:25,480
Speaker 1: seeing as a problem. It was like, oh, well, we'll

828
00:49:25,520 --> 00:49:27,680
Speaker 1: just get rid of them. You know. You know when

829
00:49:27,680 --> 00:49:29,480
Speaker 1: we talked about this a little bit before the phone call,

830
00:49:29,880 --> 00:49:31,359
Speaker 1: you know, YouTube were sort of saying, like, you didn't

831
00:49:31,440 --> 00:49:34,680
Speaker 1: learn anything about this in school. I learned a little

832
00:49:34,680 --> 00:49:36,719
Speaker 1: bit about this in school, but it's really only been

833
00:49:37,480 --> 00:49:40,600
Speaker 1: the last couple of generations that we've even started talking

834
00:49:40,600 --> 00:49:44,319
Speaker 1: about this openly. So the last residence of school in

835
00:49:44,360 --> 00:49:50,040
Speaker 1: Canada closed in nine, you know, so like there are

836
00:49:50,080 --> 00:49:55,560
Speaker 1: people my age whose like parents went to residential school

837
00:49:56,400 --> 00:49:58,520
Speaker 1: you know, and their aunties and uncles, and like we're

838
00:49:58,520 --> 00:50:01,400
Speaker 1: really directly impacted by that. Uh yeah, and we just

839
00:50:01,400 --> 00:50:03,680
Speaker 1: didn't talk about it. I didn't talk about it. We'd

840
00:50:03,760 --> 00:50:06,880
Speaker 1: like there was a sense that for a really long time,

841
00:50:07,440 --> 00:50:10,680
Speaker 1: even like in two thousand nine, the Prime Minister of Canada,

842
00:50:10,760 --> 00:50:13,920
Speaker 1: Stephen Harper, was like, Canada doesn't have a colonial history,

843
00:50:14,239 --> 00:50:18,719
Speaker 1: you know, like we don't where everything's great, you know,

844
00:50:18,880 --> 00:50:20,680
Speaker 1: when we start looking at like the time in which

845
00:50:20,960 --> 00:50:22,960
Speaker 1: the rhyme for term googles is coming out. In a

846
00:50:22,960 --> 00:50:25,120
Speaker 1: lot of ways, it was like a big piece of

847
00:50:25,160 --> 00:50:30,040
Speaker 1: media that was made about this terrible, terrible system. And yeah,

848
00:50:30,080 --> 00:50:31,799
Speaker 1: and and and so I think that a lot of

849
00:50:31,800 --> 00:50:33,799
Speaker 1: the violence and stuff that you see in the film

850
00:50:33,880 --> 00:50:36,160
Speaker 1: was really done with the idea of like trying to

851
00:50:36,400 --> 00:50:43,040
Speaker 1: convey just how destructive this was. You know, was there anything, Caitlyn,

852
00:50:43,120 --> 00:50:45,719
Speaker 1: I I don't know if like you had mentioned that

853
00:50:45,760 --> 00:50:48,560
Speaker 1: you had like a specific timeline for residential schools. I

854
00:50:48,600 --> 00:50:51,279
Speaker 1: don't I kind of jumped all over the place, I'm sure,

855
00:50:51,320 --> 00:50:54,319
Speaker 1: and I mean I think what you covered was was

856
00:50:54,560 --> 00:50:58,640
Speaker 1: really helpful context. I have just some kind of dates

857
00:50:58,880 --> 00:51:03,080
Speaker 1: scattered through and some additional numbers. For example, like the

858
00:51:03,120 --> 00:51:08,879
Speaker 1: sixties scoop was this u moment in history that was

859
00:51:08,920 --> 00:51:13,080
Speaker 1: actually several decades long where I think an estimated twenty

860
00:51:13,480 --> 00:51:18,080
Speaker 1: Indigenous children were taken from their families and placed into

861
00:51:18,400 --> 00:51:23,840
Speaker 1: um foster care or adoption homes, often with non Indigenous families.

862
00:51:24,239 --> 00:51:26,960
Speaker 1: This was happening from like the late fifties into the

863
00:51:27,160 --> 00:51:30,960
Speaker 1: nineteen eighties. UM. So, I I know folks who were

864
00:51:30,960 --> 00:51:34,160
Speaker 1: scooped and like, which is a weird way of putting it,

865
00:51:34,200 --> 00:51:37,080
Speaker 1: but in some cases it was literally like oh, you know,

866
00:51:37,160 --> 00:51:39,400
Speaker 1: these social workers arrived at your house and they loaded

867
00:51:39,400 --> 00:51:40,920
Speaker 1: you and your siblings in a car and then you

868
00:51:40,960 --> 00:51:43,120
Speaker 1: never saw your siblings again because you were all adopted

869
00:51:43,120 --> 00:51:45,920
Speaker 1: by different families, which you know, the term that we

870
00:51:45,920 --> 00:51:49,120
Speaker 1: would use for this now is child trafficking, you know,

871
00:51:49,680 --> 00:51:53,720
Speaker 1: um absolutely, And this was a government this was government

872
00:51:53,760 --> 00:51:57,160
Speaker 1: mandate that this was like government endorsed. Um. So that's

873
00:51:57,200 --> 00:51:59,600
Speaker 1: another way in which like the Indian Act has been

874
00:51:59,680 --> 00:52:03,600
Speaker 1: used to sort of um separate children from Indigenous communities,

875
00:52:03,719 --> 00:52:07,760
Speaker 1: right is through things like the sixties and seventies scoop um,

876
00:52:07,800 --> 00:52:09,920
Speaker 1: which really could be called like you said, like the

877
00:52:10,000 --> 00:52:13,160
Speaker 1: start in the fifties and went until the eighties. And

878
00:52:13,200 --> 00:52:16,120
Speaker 1: now another thing too that has become that's gotten a

879
00:52:16,160 --> 00:52:18,400
Speaker 1: lot more attention in recent years and and is something

880
00:52:18,440 --> 00:52:20,799
Speaker 1: that there's been a lot of call to abolish is

881
00:52:21,200 --> 00:52:26,120
Speaker 1: we call them birth alerts. So what can happen, unfortunately,

882
00:52:26,960 --> 00:52:31,640
Speaker 1: is that like social workers can essentially sees a newborn

883
00:52:31,760 --> 00:52:35,399
Speaker 1: from an Indigenous mother if they deem her to be

884
00:52:35,880 --> 00:52:39,400
Speaker 1: potentially not a good parent in some way. Um it

885
00:52:39,480 --> 00:52:41,960
Speaker 1: was a couple of provinces have abolished these like birth

886
00:52:41,960 --> 00:52:45,960
Speaker 1: alert systems, but it's still upheld in Saskatchewan and I

887
00:52:45,960 --> 00:52:48,640
Speaker 1: believe Alberta as well here. So yeah, so if you're

888
00:52:48,640 --> 00:52:50,759
Speaker 1: an Indigenous woman, giving birth in a hospital can be

889
00:52:50,840 --> 00:52:54,239
Speaker 1: very risky because if you're not if they're like, oh

890
00:52:54,320 --> 00:52:57,640
Speaker 1: you're kind of young, you know, or are you a

891
00:52:57,719 --> 00:53:01,960
Speaker 1: single mother? You know, like essentially the staff will alert

892
00:53:02,400 --> 00:53:04,600
Speaker 1: UM Child Services and then will come and take your

893
00:53:04,680 --> 00:53:08,040
Speaker 1: child before even like the drugs have worn off from

894
00:53:08,040 --> 00:53:12,799
Speaker 1: the birth. You know, Like it's a really really horrific system. Um,

895
00:53:12,840 --> 00:53:16,319
Speaker 1: I also wanted to this was Unfortunately, as as I

896
00:53:16,360 --> 00:53:20,880
Speaker 1: was watching this, I was reminded of news item that

897
00:53:20,960 --> 00:53:25,799
Speaker 1: I read not too long ago in September around um

898
00:53:26,200 --> 00:53:30,640
Speaker 1: just issues that would have certainly been affecting a LA,

899
00:53:31,000 --> 00:53:36,160
Speaker 1: in particular forced sterilization as well, which when I did

900
00:53:36,200 --> 00:53:39,239
Speaker 1: a little more research, I found it peaked in the

901
00:53:39,360 --> 00:53:43,800
Speaker 1: years that this movie is covering. Peach between nineteen sixty

902
00:53:43,880 --> 00:53:47,279
Speaker 1: six and nineteen seventies six, over a thousand Indigenous women

903
00:53:47,280 --> 00:53:50,560
Speaker 1: in Canada were forced to be sterilized. And the reason

904
00:53:50,600 --> 00:53:53,200
Speaker 1: that the story is relevant right now is because it's

905
00:53:53,200 --> 00:53:56,560
Speaker 1: still happening. Yeah, like you said, you know, it is

906
00:53:56,600 --> 00:53:59,440
Speaker 1: still happening. Um, there's still a lot of pressure in

907
00:53:59,600 --> 00:54:02,160
Speaker 1: terms of and you know, and in California as well,

908
00:54:02,200 --> 00:54:04,040
Speaker 1: Like there were a lot of Indigenous women sterilized in

909
00:54:04,040 --> 00:54:07,640
Speaker 1: California during the sixties and seventies. Not that I'm picking

910
00:54:07,680 --> 00:54:12,839
Speaker 1: on California. It just happened to know this California, but yeah,

911
00:54:12,880 --> 00:54:14,960
Speaker 1: it's it's it's still going on today. There's still a

912
00:54:14,960 --> 00:54:18,960
Speaker 1: lot of pressure, especially if women like have any sort

913
00:54:19,000 --> 00:54:21,720
Speaker 1: of even minor health concerns. Like a lot of times

914
00:54:21,719 --> 00:54:23,880
Speaker 1: like there still is this pressure of like, wow, we

915
00:54:23,920 --> 00:54:28,040
Speaker 1: could just like you know, sterilize you. Um, if women

916
00:54:28,040 --> 00:54:32,719
Speaker 1: are incarcerated, there's also pressure. Um yeah, you know, it

917
00:54:33,040 --> 00:54:36,920
Speaker 1: disproportionately affects the Indigenous community of course, because of colonialism,

918
00:54:36,960 --> 00:54:42,040
Speaker 1: because there is still huge bias unfortunately with regards to

919
00:54:43,719 --> 00:54:47,520
Speaker 1: with regards to Indigenous people. Absolutely. Oh, I was gonna

920
00:54:47,520 --> 00:54:49,520
Speaker 1: say in top of the sixties, Scoop, if you want

921
00:54:49,520 --> 00:54:51,600
Speaker 1: to be some other set statistics, I feel like we're

922
00:54:51,640 --> 00:54:55,320
Speaker 1: just like, oh, and this thing that's also really depressing.

923
00:54:56,280 --> 00:54:59,160
Speaker 1: So today talking to about the birth alart system. You know,

924
00:54:59,239 --> 00:55:02,240
Speaker 1: even though the last residential school closed here in Canada

925
00:55:02,320 --> 00:55:07,480
Speaker 1: in the in the nineties, which like spoiler alert, we

926
00:55:07,480 --> 00:55:10,040
Speaker 1: were all alive. Then wait, how old do you Jamie?

927
00:55:10,400 --> 00:55:16,120
Speaker 1: We were all It's like Jamie's young, Jamie's James scrappy.

928
00:55:16,680 --> 00:55:18,640
Speaker 1: But yeah, so it's within our lifetimes, you know, And

929
00:55:18,680 --> 00:55:21,280
Speaker 1: I think that that's a really important thing to remember. However,

930
00:55:21,440 --> 00:55:23,759
Speaker 1: a lot of Indigenous folks will argue that the child

931
00:55:23,840 --> 00:55:26,680
Speaker 1: weft for a system has taken over the place of

932
00:55:26,719 --> 00:55:28,839
Speaker 1: the residential schools in terms of like taking kids out

933
00:55:28,840 --> 00:55:31,440
Speaker 1: of communities. You know, you have the birth alert system.

934
00:55:31,520 --> 00:55:34,799
Speaker 1: You also just have like tremendous like scrutiny and surveillance

935
00:55:34,920 --> 00:55:38,920
Speaker 1: of Indigenous families. And you know what should be shocking

936
00:55:39,040 --> 00:55:42,560
Speaker 1: up setting to people is the fact that Indigenous children

937
00:55:43,000 --> 00:55:46,720
Speaker 1: represent fifty of the children in foster care in Canada,

938
00:55:46,760 --> 00:55:49,839
Speaker 1: even though they only represent seven percent of the youth

939
00:55:49,880 --> 00:55:54,439
Speaker 1: population UM in Quebecet's estimated that one out of every

940
00:55:54,480 --> 00:55:58,359
Speaker 1: Indigenous family has a child that's in foster care with

941
00:55:58,400 --> 00:56:03,359
Speaker 1: like non Indigenous people UM and it's endemic. It's it's

942
00:56:03,400 --> 00:56:05,719
Speaker 1: just like, you know, if it's not something you have

943
00:56:05,800 --> 00:56:09,800
Speaker 1: experienced directly, it's something that like you know other people

944
00:56:09,800 --> 00:56:12,640
Speaker 1: who have and when you start looking at things like that,

945
00:56:12,719 --> 00:56:15,080
Speaker 1: you know, with regards to kids and the child great

946
00:56:15,080 --> 00:56:20,520
Speaker 1: resistant with regards to you know, suicidality, with regards to incarceration,

947
00:56:20,600 --> 00:56:22,480
Speaker 1: you know, with regards to like drug abuse, like all

948
00:56:22,480 --> 00:56:24,080
Speaker 1: the things that we sort of see in this movie.

949
00:56:24,719 --> 00:56:26,560
Speaker 1: You know, you can draw a straight line from one

950
00:56:26,600 --> 00:56:29,560
Speaker 1: to the other and it can't be an accident. At

951
00:56:29,560 --> 00:56:33,560
Speaker 1: this point, you know, there's just so much like paperwork

952
00:56:33,640 --> 00:56:38,680
Speaker 1: and documentation of how things have intentionally been done, you know,

953
00:56:38,760 --> 00:56:40,720
Speaker 1: throughout the years to make that this is the case.

954
00:56:41,320 --> 00:56:42,960
Speaker 1: At a certain point, in time, you have to kind

955
00:56:42,960 --> 00:56:45,880
Speaker 1: of be like, well, it's not even a conspiracy anymore,

956
00:56:45,920 --> 00:56:49,719
Speaker 1: because you know it have documented and to speak to

957
00:56:49,760 --> 00:56:54,920
Speaker 1: your point from earlier, that's just the documentation that still exists,

958
00:56:55,640 --> 00:56:59,640
Speaker 1: right what what was burned and what was destroyed in

959
00:57:00,000 --> 00:57:03,799
Speaker 1: and what was lost and you know, and what will

960
00:57:03,840 --> 00:57:06,319
Speaker 1: not come to light you know for whatever reason, and

961
00:57:07,920 --> 00:57:11,640
Speaker 1: on and on and on. Unfortunately, let's take a quick

962
00:57:12,080 --> 00:57:14,799
Speaker 1: break and then we'll come back and we'll discuss how

963
00:57:14,840 --> 00:57:25,960
Speaker 1: this context informs the film, shall we and we're back? Um.

964
00:57:26,000 --> 00:57:30,080
Speaker 1: I wanted to, uh, if it's cool with everybody's share, um,

965
00:57:30,160 --> 00:57:35,800
Speaker 1: some quotes from Jeff Barnaby please about the production of

966
00:57:35,840 --> 00:57:40,040
Speaker 1: this movie and just kind of his motivation behind writing

967
00:57:40,040 --> 00:57:41,560
Speaker 1: it and where I'm sort of where he was at.

968
00:57:42,280 --> 00:57:45,240
Speaker 1: I still, I mean, especially after watching this movie a

969
00:57:45,280 --> 00:57:49,520
Speaker 1: couple of times, it I can't believe that he is

970
00:57:49,560 --> 00:57:53,360
Speaker 1: not a more mainstream name. Like it's so he wrote, directed,

971
00:57:53,440 --> 00:57:57,840
Speaker 1: and edited this movie, which is fucking unbelievable. I'm like, God,

972
00:57:57,920 --> 00:58:01,080
Speaker 1: imagine having three skills I hand he well, he he

973
00:58:01,520 --> 00:58:03,360
Speaker 1: did the same for Blood Quantum and then I think

974
00:58:03,360 --> 00:58:06,360
Speaker 1: he also co wrote the score to that film. Yes

975
00:58:06,400 --> 00:58:08,800
Speaker 1: he did. Yeah, So he's a composer as well, and

976
00:58:08,840 --> 00:58:12,840
Speaker 1: he also has a small cameo in Rhymescrey on Ghoules,

977
00:58:14,280 --> 00:58:17,480
Speaker 1: which which he's the priest who puts a lot in

978
00:58:17,480 --> 00:58:20,720
Speaker 1: the hole. I was in the film for like three seconds.

979
00:58:21,880 --> 00:58:24,800
Speaker 1: And it's funny because I've I've met Jeff sort of

980
00:58:24,840 --> 00:58:30,360
Speaker 1: like subsequently, just through like Montreal film sort of stuff,

981
00:58:30,400 --> 00:58:33,280
Speaker 1: and it's very like I totally agree, I think he

982
00:58:33,280 --> 00:58:36,600
Speaker 1: should be a household name, but it sort of touches

983
00:58:36,640 --> 00:58:39,600
Speaker 1: on some of the ways that like it can be

984
00:58:39,640 --> 00:58:42,080
Speaker 1: really hard to make a film when you're not a

985
00:58:42,120 --> 00:58:45,840
Speaker 1: straight white man, you know. And for Blood Quantum, he

986
00:58:45,840 --> 00:58:48,320
Speaker 1: was working on that project for years, and like different

987
00:58:48,320 --> 00:58:51,680
Speaker 1: things were shot at different times, and you know, there

988
00:58:51,720 --> 00:58:54,840
Speaker 1: was like self funding at different points, and like well

989
00:58:54,880 --> 00:58:59,040
Speaker 1: even for Rhymesprey on Ghoules, there was like you sort

990
00:58:59,080 --> 00:59:01,000
Speaker 1: of get to see it's like all of the Canadian

991
00:59:01,000 --> 00:59:04,080
Speaker 1: film funders contributed because it's like we have tiny little

992
00:59:04,080 --> 00:59:06,560
Speaker 1: bits of money that we can give you, so it's

993
00:59:06,600 --> 00:59:09,440
Speaker 1: you know, it's it's unfortunately still like an uphill battle

994
00:59:09,480 --> 00:59:12,960
Speaker 1: in a lot of ways just to like have have

995
00:59:13,080 --> 00:59:14,880
Speaker 1: a film made and then to get people to see it,

996
00:59:14,960 --> 00:59:17,760
Speaker 1: you know, and this I mean, this movie's budget was

997
00:59:17,840 --> 00:59:20,800
Speaker 1: only a million, five hundred thousand, which I mean for

998
00:59:20,840 --> 00:59:25,160
Speaker 1: a movie, it certainly uses that budget to its fullest extent.

999
00:59:25,240 --> 00:59:28,120
Speaker 1: It looks incredible. And we had we had sort of

1000
00:59:28,160 --> 00:59:31,960
Speaker 1: a similar conversation not too long ago in our girl

1001
00:59:32,000 --> 00:59:35,000
Speaker 1: Walks Home Alone at Night episode, And just like the

1002
00:59:35,200 --> 00:59:39,240
Speaker 1: number of barriers that are put in front of filmmakers

1003
00:59:39,320 --> 00:59:43,240
Speaker 1: who are not straight, white male, and how many different

1004
00:59:43,240 --> 00:59:46,959
Speaker 1: avenues you have to go for funding, and even when

1005
00:59:47,600 --> 00:59:49,760
Speaker 1: you have this finished product and it's incredible and it's

1006
00:59:50,240 --> 00:59:54,760
Speaker 1: you know, very exciting and different, distribution becomes a whole issue.

1007
00:59:54,960 --> 00:59:59,360
Speaker 1: And so if you're listening right now and you haven't

1008
00:59:59,640 --> 01:00:04,200
Speaker 1: watch the Barnaby Canon, get on it. But I really

1009
01:00:04,280 --> 01:00:06,960
Speaker 1: liked There was an interview he did, I believe around

1010
01:00:07,000 --> 01:00:09,360
Speaker 1: the time this movie was first coming out in festivals

1011
01:00:09,920 --> 01:00:14,400
Speaker 1: um with musk Rat magazine, and he was asked by

1012
01:00:14,440 --> 01:00:20,520
Speaker 1: the interviewer, let me get their name, Jemis DaCosta Um.

1013
01:00:20,560 --> 01:00:23,280
Speaker 1: He was asked why he chose to have a female

1014
01:00:23,280 --> 01:00:28,640
Speaker 1: protagonist for this story, so I thought relevant to our interests, uh,

1015
01:00:28,680 --> 01:00:33,480
Speaker 1: And here is how he replied. He said, my nation

1016
01:00:33,640 --> 01:00:36,720
Speaker 1: is a matriarchal society and paying respect to that archetype

1017
01:00:36,720 --> 01:00:39,400
Speaker 1: of a woman and the strength that is there, particularly

1018
01:00:39,440 --> 01:00:42,120
Speaker 1: in First Nations women. It's imperative for me, as a

1019
01:00:42,120 --> 01:00:44,560
Speaker 1: First Nations man who loves his mom and loves his

1020
01:00:44,600 --> 01:00:47,360
Speaker 1: wife and loves his sisters, to pay reverence to their

1021
01:00:47,360 --> 01:00:50,840
Speaker 1: struggle and their strength. I think women are awesome. Ga.

1022
01:00:52,800 --> 01:00:57,720
Speaker 1: My mom had me and a straight up there with

1023
01:00:57,760 --> 01:01:04,640
Speaker 1: our Robert Eggers. Oh yes, women, I've heard of them. Um,

1024
01:01:04,800 --> 01:01:07,760
Speaker 1: Jeff Party thinks women are awesome. My mom had me

1025
01:01:07,800 --> 01:01:09,520
Speaker 1: at such a young age and didn't have a lot

1026
01:01:09,560 --> 01:01:11,720
Speaker 1: of support around her, but still managed to make it work.

1027
01:01:11,840 --> 01:01:13,920
Speaker 1: She and my stepmom were a big influence, along with

1028
01:01:13,920 --> 01:01:15,680
Speaker 1: my sisters, and seeing what they went through at such

1029
01:01:15,680 --> 01:01:17,720
Speaker 1: a young age gave me a measuring stick in terms

1030
01:01:17,720 --> 01:01:20,640
Speaker 1: of the things you can complain about in life. And

1031
01:01:20,680 --> 01:01:23,120
Speaker 1: then he said, um, kind of going off of that,

1032
01:01:23,560 --> 01:01:27,560
Speaker 1: why he chose the era in residential schools that he chose.

1033
01:01:28,000 --> 01:01:31,560
Speaker 1: I believe this movie is set in the year that

1034
01:01:31,600 --> 01:01:34,800
Speaker 1: he was born, in nineteen seventy six, but he says

1035
01:01:34,840 --> 01:01:37,240
Speaker 1: about that in the same interview quote, I thought, if

1036
01:01:37,240 --> 01:01:39,280
Speaker 1: there was ever a point in time that this residential

1037
01:01:39,320 --> 01:01:41,200
Speaker 1: school was going to crumble, it would have been in

1038
01:01:41,280 --> 01:01:43,120
Speaker 1: the seventies. It just made sense to me to have

1039
01:01:43,160 --> 01:01:46,160
Speaker 1: a young Native girl bring this institution of ugliness to

1040
01:01:46,200 --> 01:01:48,880
Speaker 1: its knees. It made sense to me because First Nations

1041
01:01:48,920 --> 01:01:51,600
Speaker 1: women are the language and cultural keepers. They are the

1042
01:01:51,640 --> 01:01:55,480
Speaker 1: epicenter of our matriarchal society. I've mostly only known strength

1043
01:01:55,520 --> 01:01:57,560
Speaker 1: to come from the women in my life, which isn't

1044
01:01:57,560 --> 01:01:59,680
Speaker 1: to say that men haven't been influential, but the rock

1045
01:01:59,720 --> 01:02:03,880
Speaker 1: state power that doesn't waiver seems to only come from women,

1046
01:02:04,680 --> 01:02:07,200
Speaker 1: and which I think he compliments his wife for a

1047
01:02:07,200 --> 01:02:10,080
Speaker 1: long time. It's nice, but I'm not going to read

1048
01:02:10,080 --> 01:02:13,720
Speaker 1: the wife is really lovely, too very nice. Well, I

1049
01:02:13,760 --> 01:02:17,440
Speaker 1: think you see that in the film, this this like

1050
01:02:17,520 --> 01:02:21,880
Speaker 1: ideology with like of Ayla's peers, who seemed to be

1051
01:02:22,320 --> 01:02:27,280
Speaker 1: entirely boys, she is the smartest and most competent of them,

1052
01:02:27,280 --> 01:02:30,160
Speaker 1: not even of just her peers, of all the like

1053
01:02:30,240 --> 01:02:34,720
Speaker 1: adult men around her. She seems to have kind of

1054
01:02:34,720 --> 01:02:37,640
Speaker 1: the most awareness of what is going around, because like

1055
01:02:38,040 --> 01:02:41,080
Speaker 1: there's scenes where like Soholo and Angus are just like, oops,

1056
01:02:41,200 --> 01:02:44,440
Speaker 1: I got robbed by a stripper, dough like Tither kind

1057
01:02:44,480 --> 01:02:46,680
Speaker 1: of laughing about it. You know, It's like, oh, well, no,

1058
01:02:46,800 --> 01:02:48,880
Speaker 1: big deal. We'll just sell some bottles. We'll get the

1059
01:02:48,880 --> 01:02:53,000
Speaker 1: money back that way, and ailes like no, like, do

1060
01:02:53,040 --> 01:02:55,040
Speaker 1: you see what's happening? Do you see what we have

1061
01:02:55,160 --> 01:02:59,400
Speaker 1: to do? And she's by far the most competent, and

1062
01:02:59,400 --> 01:03:01,720
Speaker 1: and like why is this? We talked about sort of

1063
01:03:01,880 --> 01:03:05,880
Speaker 1: having to age prematurely almost and having to be wise

1064
01:03:05,920 --> 01:03:09,840
Speaker 1: beyond your years, not in a like precocious child dropey

1065
01:03:09,840 --> 01:03:12,680
Speaker 1: way that we you know, always take guph with on

1066
01:03:12,720 --> 01:03:16,800
Speaker 1: the podcast, but in a when you're growing up in

1067
01:03:16,920 --> 01:03:23,640
Speaker 1: these horrible, like systematic oppression situations, there's no other choice.

1068
01:03:23,760 --> 01:03:28,120
Speaker 1: You can't like it's that's just it hardens you. And

1069
01:03:28,280 --> 01:03:31,320
Speaker 1: it and the fact that the story of the wolf

1070
01:03:31,320 --> 01:03:36,680
Speaker 1: eating itself that becomes so important um to how she

1071
01:03:36,840 --> 01:03:40,120
Speaker 1: views herself and how we view her as the audience

1072
01:03:40,440 --> 01:03:42,919
Speaker 1: comes from really the only other woman that we get

1073
01:03:42,960 --> 01:03:45,640
Speaker 1: to know besides her mother in the movie of like

1074
01:03:45,880 --> 01:03:48,720
Speaker 1: she I mean, I guess, going off of um what

1075
01:03:48,800 --> 01:03:52,400
Speaker 1: Jeff Barnaby said, she was the keeper of that wisdom

1076
01:03:52,440 --> 01:03:55,400
Speaker 1: and passed it along for sure. And I was going

1077
01:03:55,440 --> 01:03:57,640
Speaker 1: to say to that just like a little bit of

1078
01:03:57,680 --> 01:04:01,720
Speaker 1: like added magma context. Um, there is this huge reverence

1079
01:04:01,760 --> 01:04:05,240
Speaker 1: in our culture for not just women, although you know,

1080
01:04:05,360 --> 01:04:07,800
Speaker 1: like Jeff says, you know, it's a it's a very matriarchal,

1081
01:04:07,880 --> 01:04:14,240
Speaker 1: matrilineal culture, but also grandmother is in particular are really revered,

1082
01:04:14,480 --> 01:04:18,840
Speaker 1: um you know, as elders, as elder women. There's a

1083
01:04:18,920 --> 01:04:22,439
Speaker 1: lot of stories of glose Cap who's are are sort

1084
01:04:22,480 --> 01:04:28,520
Speaker 1: of um how to describe glose Cap. He's a trickster

1085
01:04:28,640 --> 01:04:32,320
Speaker 1: figure and he's within traditional storytelling, but he's also like

1086
01:04:32,360 --> 01:04:35,920
Speaker 1: a protector figure for the Maigma. You know, he was

1087
01:04:36,080 --> 01:04:39,000
Speaker 1: sort of helped when creator made the Bigma at the beginning.

1088
01:04:39,000 --> 01:04:41,400
Speaker 1: You know, it's a shapeful landscape. So he plays this

1089
01:04:41,440 --> 01:04:44,640
Speaker 1: really important role through all of our our traditional stories.

1090
01:04:44,880 --> 01:04:46,680
Speaker 1: And there's a lot of stories about glues Cap just

1091
01:04:46,720 --> 01:04:49,880
Speaker 1: like doing stuff with his grandmother. Um. And even the

1092
01:04:49,920 --> 01:04:54,200
Speaker 1: word that we use her grandmother, nogu midge comes from

1093
01:04:54,280 --> 01:04:57,440
Speaker 1: what glose Cap calls his grandmother, which is nukumi. And

1094
01:04:59,320 --> 01:05:02,280
Speaker 1: that like that j on the end is like how

1095
01:05:02,320 --> 01:05:04,440
Speaker 1: you sort of like talk about like something being smaller,

1096
01:05:04,720 --> 01:05:07,120
Speaker 1: like we talked about Jiuji is like a small bug,

1097
01:05:08,160 --> 01:05:11,120
Speaker 1: so like our grandmothers are like a small version of

1098
01:05:11,240 --> 01:05:13,800
Speaker 1: Bluecaps grandmother, you know, And there's also a lot of

1099
01:05:13,840 --> 01:05:18,080
Speaker 1: reverence in Um in Nigma culture for figures like Santa Anne.

1100
01:05:18,800 --> 01:05:22,800
Speaker 1: There's a very important a cathedral called sant and de

1101
01:05:22,840 --> 01:05:25,840
Speaker 1: beau Prey where a lot of Magma folks do pilgrimages too.

1102
01:05:26,640 --> 01:05:28,840
Speaker 1: It's like I said, we converted very early on, so

1103
01:05:29,280 --> 01:05:33,200
Speaker 1: Christianity has gotten very tied into our traditional culture. And

1104
01:05:33,400 --> 01:05:37,160
Speaker 1: Sant Anne in the Bible. Now I'm talking about my

1105
01:05:37,200 --> 01:05:39,040
Speaker 1: ass a little bit. I'll be at and I cannot

1106
01:05:39,040 --> 01:05:42,640
Speaker 1: help you because I have never read the Bible, but

1107
01:05:43,840 --> 01:05:48,720
Speaker 1: sant Anne is is Jesus's grandmother and so uh, you know,

1108
01:05:48,800 --> 01:05:51,880
Speaker 1: she she remains very symbolic and very important for the

1109
01:05:51,960 --> 01:05:56,080
Speaker 1: Magma in that sense. So the fact that Sarah's is

1110
01:05:56,160 --> 01:05:59,520
Speaker 1: really the only female figure that we know in the film,

1111
01:05:59,560 --> 01:06:03,520
Speaker 1: I think is like is very emblematic of like Magma culture.

1112
01:06:03,640 --> 01:06:06,360
Speaker 1: And you know, and I love those scenes so much

1113
01:06:06,440 --> 01:06:11,680
Speaker 1: because they're actually speaking Magma. Oh there's my cat. Wow.

1114
01:06:12,000 --> 01:06:15,680
Speaker 1: This episode of the Bechtel Cast passes the Caitlin test

1115
01:06:16,120 --> 01:06:18,480
Speaker 1: because a cat is pleasant. I was going to say,

1116
01:06:19,880 --> 01:06:21,840
Speaker 1: but yeah, I love those sections with Sarah's because they're

1117
01:06:21,840 --> 01:06:25,640
Speaker 1: speaking in Migma. She's making Bannock, you know, she's doing

1118
01:06:25,680 --> 01:06:29,160
Speaker 1: like all these things that like are so familiar and

1119
01:06:29,200 --> 01:06:32,480
Speaker 1: are so like grounding. And when we're in Sarah's house too,

1120
01:06:32,600 --> 01:06:35,400
Speaker 1: you have a sense of like Ala doesn't have to

1121
01:06:35,440 --> 01:06:38,640
Speaker 1: be you know, the smartest, you know, most sort of

1122
01:06:38,680 --> 01:06:42,080
Speaker 1: like aware person. She can just kind of be there

1123
01:06:42,160 --> 01:06:45,600
Speaker 1: and like is comforting. It feels like the closest scenes

1124
01:06:45,640 --> 01:06:49,840
Speaker 1: to where she feels like being a kid, because it's

1125
01:06:49,840 --> 01:06:52,880
Speaker 1: really easy to forget that she's a kid because she

1126
01:06:53,000 --> 01:06:55,480
Speaker 1: has the weight of the world and then some on

1127
01:06:55,520 --> 01:06:58,040
Speaker 1: her shoulders. But yeah, and those scenes with Staras and

1128
01:06:58,040 --> 01:07:02,000
Speaker 1: I think like part of why it's devastating to see

1129
01:07:02,040 --> 01:07:07,520
Speaker 1: that Sarah's has been murdered is because that's why, I mean,

1130
01:07:08,120 --> 01:07:10,440
Speaker 1: one of the only times you sort of see Ela

1131
01:07:10,760 --> 01:07:16,600
Speaker 1: relax the smallest bit and just feel, like you said, comfortable, yeah,

1132
01:07:16,800 --> 01:07:20,600
Speaker 1: big time, you know. And it's also interesting because what

1133
01:07:20,640 --> 01:07:24,160
Speaker 1: you're saying to about her, like I think, like I

1134
01:07:24,280 --> 01:07:26,360
Speaker 1: really see it as after her mother's death and her

1135
01:07:26,360 --> 01:07:28,200
Speaker 1: father is in prison, you know, Ela kind of has

1136
01:07:28,240 --> 01:07:31,160
Speaker 1: to become the adult, has to become the parent, you know,

1137
01:07:31,200 --> 01:07:34,200
Speaker 1: and like you know, you both mentioned like that's not rare,

1138
01:07:34,480 --> 01:07:39,000
Speaker 1: unfortunately for kids who grow up in circumstances where there

1139
01:07:39,080 --> 01:07:41,400
Speaker 1: is like subtance abuse, or there's like a parent absent

1140
01:07:41,800 --> 01:07:45,920
Speaker 1: um for whatever reason, you know. And I really refer

1141
01:07:46,040 --> 01:07:48,400
Speaker 1: to I always think about like all the men in

1142
01:07:48,440 --> 01:07:51,320
Speaker 1: the film kind of as like lost boys in a sense,

1143
01:07:51,920 --> 01:07:55,120
Speaker 1: because there is sort of like this waywardness, this sort

1144
01:07:55,120 --> 01:07:58,400
Speaker 1: of sense of like there's not like any other kind

1145
01:07:58,400 --> 01:08:02,760
Speaker 1: of like parent like chy relationships really depicted. And sometimes

1146
01:08:02,800 --> 01:08:05,320
Speaker 1: it can kind of like feel like that in In

1147
01:08:05,440 --> 01:08:09,920
Speaker 1: Circumstances Um, you know, where there is so much intergenerational traumas,

1148
01:08:09,960 --> 01:08:12,080
Speaker 1: like everyone's kind of like lost and everyone's kind of

1149
01:08:12,120 --> 01:08:15,960
Speaker 1: like separated from each other, you know. And so I

1150
01:08:16,000 --> 01:08:17,880
Speaker 1: thought that that was really interesting the way that they

1151
01:08:17,880 --> 01:08:22,599
Speaker 1: treated that in film. Yeah, particularly with ALA's relationship with

1152
01:08:22,800 --> 01:08:25,400
Speaker 1: her father, which I thought was the way that that

1153
01:08:25,520 --> 01:08:29,280
Speaker 1: was developed was I mean it really emotionally effective, but

1154
01:08:29,360 --> 01:08:33,679
Speaker 1: really interesting too, where it's I don't know, every character

1155
01:08:34,040 --> 01:08:38,880
Speaker 1: in this movie is so multidimensional and so complex, where

1156
01:08:38,920 --> 01:08:41,400
Speaker 1: it's like I can be mad at ALA's dad in

1157
01:08:41,439 --> 01:08:44,040
Speaker 1: one scene and then in the next scene be like, oh,

1158
01:08:44,120 --> 01:08:47,400
Speaker 1: but I but but I understand where he's coming from.

1159
01:08:47,439 --> 01:08:51,560
Speaker 1: Where I mean, when we flash forward, Ala is essentially

1160
01:08:51,720 --> 01:08:56,280
Speaker 1: her uncle's boss. She's clearly the brains behind the operation,

1161
01:08:56,600 --> 01:09:02,160
Speaker 1: and her dad is not able to you, like, I

1162
01:09:02,200 --> 01:09:04,560
Speaker 1: don't know, get emotionally where he needs to be. And

1163
01:09:04,800 --> 01:09:07,680
Speaker 1: and the anger sort of is lashed out towards her

1164
01:09:08,320 --> 01:09:11,479
Speaker 1: when it is his anger with the circumstance, not with her.

1165
01:09:11,640 --> 01:09:17,639
Speaker 1: And seeing them navigate that relationship and reach i mean,

1166
01:09:18,640 --> 01:09:21,320
Speaker 1: go full circle in the best and the worst way

1167
01:09:21,400 --> 01:09:25,680
Speaker 1: by the end was just so so so impactful. It

1168
01:09:25,760 --> 01:09:29,680
Speaker 1: was just yeah, so beautifully written. Yeah, and and and

1169
01:09:29,720 --> 01:09:31,640
Speaker 1: sort of you know, you're right and sort of like

1170
01:09:31,680 --> 01:09:35,840
Speaker 1: seeing that full There's a lot of like circular sort

1171
01:09:35,840 --> 01:09:37,840
Speaker 1: of narratives that happened in the film, and I think

1172
01:09:37,840 --> 01:09:40,639
Speaker 1: that that's very intentional in the sense of like kind

1173
01:09:40,640 --> 01:09:44,479
Speaker 1: of being caught in systemic racism can often feel like

1174
01:09:44,680 --> 01:09:47,360
Speaker 1: you can't escape this vicious circle that you're in, right,

1175
01:09:48,000 --> 01:09:51,240
Speaker 1: like any kind of systemic oppression. But we sort of

1176
01:09:51,360 --> 01:09:53,320
Speaker 1: we opened the movie with her father going to prison,

1177
01:09:53,479 --> 01:09:55,240
Speaker 1: we close the movie with her father going to prison.

1178
01:09:56,600 --> 01:09:58,479
Speaker 1: You know, the amount of journey that he has to

1179
01:09:58,520 --> 01:10:01,519
Speaker 1: do in between, you know, in terms of his relationship

1180
01:10:01,520 --> 01:10:05,559
Speaker 1: with Ala is huge. Mm hmmm. So im my cats

1181
01:10:05,560 --> 01:10:09,200
Speaker 1: eating my notes um as I am trying to read

1182
01:10:09,240 --> 01:10:12,280
Speaker 1: them uh, you know, is absolutely huge, you know. And

1183
01:10:12,640 --> 01:10:15,560
Speaker 1: I think that exchange at the end of the film

1184
01:10:15,600 --> 01:10:17,800
Speaker 1: where where Joseph like just comes out and says, you know,

1185
01:10:17,880 --> 01:10:19,280
Speaker 1: like you're still a kid. I want you to be

1186
01:10:19,320 --> 01:10:21,920
Speaker 1: a kid. You know. I think that that you finally

1187
01:10:22,000 --> 01:10:24,200
Speaker 1: understand in that moment what the stakes are for him,

1188
01:10:24,200 --> 01:10:27,440
Speaker 1: and like the fact that like, you know, he understands

1189
01:10:27,439 --> 01:10:28,960
Speaker 1: even though he's like, I want you to be a kid,

1190
01:10:28,960 --> 01:10:32,160
Speaker 1: he understands that like they can never really be a kid,

1191
01:10:32,439 --> 01:10:36,040
Speaker 1: you know, like that's just not on the table. And

1192
01:10:36,080 --> 01:10:38,479
Speaker 1: I think that's kind of interesting in terms of like

1193
01:10:38,520 --> 01:10:40,880
Speaker 1: looking at this film as like in comparison with like

1194
01:10:40,960 --> 01:10:45,200
Speaker 1: other films about like teenage girls, because I think there

1195
01:10:45,200 --> 01:10:47,879
Speaker 1: could be an argument made that in some ways Rhymes

1196
01:10:48,200 --> 01:10:51,720
Speaker 1: is a coming of age story. But it's just like,

1197
01:10:52,600 --> 01:10:54,080
Speaker 1: you know, you look at that and then you look

1198
01:10:54,120 --> 01:10:57,240
Speaker 1: at something like a book smart and you're like, oh,

1199
01:10:58,840 --> 01:11:00,559
Speaker 1: you know, you guys talk so much abou like how

1200
01:11:00,800 --> 01:11:03,680
Speaker 1: you know, oftentimes teen movies take place in a very

1201
01:11:03,720 --> 01:11:07,200
Speaker 1: like narrow sort of class Oh yeah, um, And you know,

1202
01:11:07,280 --> 01:11:09,120
Speaker 1: it's sort of interesting to see the way that this

1203
01:11:09,200 --> 01:11:11,880
Speaker 1: film steps kind of outside of that, you know, to

1204
01:11:11,920 --> 01:11:14,120
Speaker 1: tell this like story of It's like, well, you know,

1205
01:11:14,200 --> 01:11:16,479
Speaker 1: sometimes coming of age means having to be your own parents,

1206
01:11:17,120 --> 01:11:21,400
Speaker 1: you know, absolutely a teenager. Yeah, I mean, and I

1207
01:11:21,680 --> 01:11:24,479
Speaker 1: feel like I would I would qualify this movie is

1208
01:11:24,760 --> 01:11:27,360
Speaker 1: I wrote down all the different genres I felt like

1209
01:11:27,400 --> 01:11:30,040
Speaker 1: this movie touched on at different points, which is another

1210
01:11:30,080 --> 01:11:32,960
Speaker 1: thing that I loved about. It was like, there's just

1211
01:11:33,680 --> 01:11:37,920
Speaker 1: there were whole sequences that were a highest movie. There

1212
01:11:37,920 --> 01:11:40,559
Speaker 1: were whole sequences that were very much drama. There were

1213
01:11:40,600 --> 01:11:43,559
Speaker 1: whole sequences. But it feels like a coming of age

1214
01:11:43,600 --> 01:11:47,559
Speaker 1: movie to me. Yeah, And I don't know, I mean,

1215
01:11:47,720 --> 01:11:51,440
Speaker 1: maybe not at first glance, because it's not an experience

1216
01:11:51,439 --> 01:11:54,880
Speaker 1: that we usually see reflected on screen, but we definitely

1217
01:11:54,920 --> 01:11:59,280
Speaker 1: see her her come of age. Um and right, It's like,

1218
01:11:59,560 --> 01:12:02,400
Speaker 1: I mean, so it's almost like you might not necessarily

1219
01:12:02,479 --> 01:12:06,000
Speaker 1: immediately recognize it as a coming of age story because

1220
01:12:06,040 --> 01:12:09,719
Speaker 1: there's no party at a rich kid's house, so maybe

1221
01:12:09,760 --> 01:12:13,599
Speaker 1: that's where, right, there's no like oops, I smoked weed

1222
01:12:13,640 --> 01:12:18,120
Speaker 1: for the first time and now I'm tripping at my

1223
01:12:18,400 --> 01:12:22,240
Speaker 1: at my friend's mansion that I'm hanging out at. Right,

1224
01:12:22,280 --> 01:12:26,760
Speaker 1: It's like, but but it's like, yeah, a movie about

1225
01:12:26,800 --> 01:12:32,360
Speaker 1: a young indigenous teen girl in the nineteen seventies in Canada,

1226
01:12:33,040 --> 01:12:37,800
Speaker 1: like that is what coming of age would look like, absolutely,

1227
01:12:38,200 --> 01:12:40,760
Speaker 1: you know, and even I think that, like, you know,

1228
01:12:40,760 --> 01:12:44,519
Speaker 1: there were even things like like I think that in

1229
01:12:44,600 --> 01:12:48,719
Speaker 1: my own coming of age that like I like resonated

1230
01:12:48,760 --> 01:12:50,600
Speaker 1: with me in terms of the film. You know, like

1231
01:12:50,640 --> 01:12:52,519
Speaker 1: I said, I didn't grow up in a REVS, but

1232
01:12:52,600 --> 01:12:55,679
Speaker 1: I did grow up with two parents who had serious

1233
01:12:55,680 --> 01:12:59,360
Speaker 1: substance of these issues. And yeah, there are definitely things

1234
01:12:59,400 --> 01:13:04,439
Speaker 1: about like Ale's story that resonated so so strongly with me,

1235
01:13:04,520 --> 01:13:09,280
Speaker 1: like on this very profound level. And I think that's important.

1236
01:13:09,280 --> 01:13:11,120
Speaker 1: I think that's so important in the media that like

1237
01:13:11,280 --> 01:13:14,519
Speaker 1: young people can see. You know, I was older than

1238
01:13:14,560 --> 01:13:17,040
Speaker 1: Ala when I saw than Aila would have been then

1239
01:13:17,080 --> 01:13:19,519
Speaker 1: when I saw the film. But it's a film that

1240
01:13:19,600 --> 01:13:22,960
Speaker 1: like I try and like show young people too, because

1241
01:13:22,960 --> 01:13:25,439
Speaker 1: it's important, you know, we're talking about like representation. You know,

1242
01:13:25,439 --> 01:13:28,680
Speaker 1: it's important to sort of see like, yes, it is

1243
01:13:28,680 --> 01:13:33,280
Speaker 1: this very brutal, violent, I don't think particularly optimistic story.

1244
01:13:34,520 --> 01:13:36,800
Speaker 1: But Jeff Barnaby talks a lot about this idea of

1245
01:13:36,840 --> 01:13:39,600
Speaker 1: like wanting to portray the res in you know, in

1246
01:13:39,600 --> 01:13:43,519
Speaker 1: a way that's like true to his experience, you know,

1247
01:13:43,680 --> 01:13:46,040
Speaker 1: And I think that, like whether you're indigenous or not,

1248
01:13:46,120 --> 01:13:48,840
Speaker 1: if you're a young person who is living in like

1249
01:13:48,840 --> 01:13:51,920
Speaker 1: in a precarious situation where the you know that's because

1250
01:13:52,280 --> 01:13:54,080
Speaker 1: you know it's always because of things like that you

1251
01:13:54,120 --> 01:13:56,000
Speaker 1: can't control, then I think that there's things you're going

1252
01:13:56,000 --> 01:13:59,920
Speaker 1: to relate to. In terms of ALA's story, Yeah, absolutely,

1253
01:14:00,040 --> 01:14:03,360
Speaker 1: I mean even getting back to the relationship with her dad.

1254
01:14:03,400 --> 01:14:07,680
Speaker 1: I mean just navigating a complicated relationship with I had

1255
01:14:07,720 --> 01:14:11,000
Speaker 1: a number of people in my family who had substance

1256
01:14:11,000 --> 01:14:15,720
Speaker 1: abuse problems, but you love them and you feel like

1257
01:14:16,439 --> 01:14:19,400
Speaker 1: it's not especially when you're still a kid, you can't

1258
01:14:19,479 --> 01:14:23,120
Speaker 1: really sever that chord and I I don't know, it's

1259
01:14:23,160 --> 01:14:26,160
Speaker 1: it's something you almost never see in teen movies, and

1260
01:14:26,200 --> 01:14:28,519
Speaker 1: if you do, it's kind of framed like a joke

1261
01:14:29,120 --> 01:14:33,160
Speaker 1: instead of you know, a problem that is something you know,

1262
01:14:33,240 --> 01:14:37,000
Speaker 1: very sensitive that needs to be navigated, and another thing

1263
01:14:37,000 --> 01:14:39,600
Speaker 1: that kind of I guess I'm curious that what you

1264
01:14:39,720 --> 01:14:44,520
Speaker 1: both felt about this, But I also was really affected

1265
01:14:44,520 --> 01:14:49,040
Speaker 1: by the I don't like Ala is so mature in

1266
01:14:49,120 --> 01:14:52,080
Speaker 1: ways that I'm like, I currently don't even know if

1267
01:14:52,120 --> 01:14:57,560
Speaker 1: I could be where the amount of grace and understanding

1268
01:14:57,560 --> 01:15:01,920
Speaker 1: that she's able to extend to both of her parents consistently,

1269
01:15:02,120 --> 01:15:06,799
Speaker 1: even when she is, particularly with her dad, who she's

1270
01:15:07,320 --> 01:15:10,840
Speaker 1: often piste off at the decision she's making. She realizes

1271
01:15:10,920 --> 01:15:15,640
Speaker 1: he's lashing out, he's compartmentalizing, he's not able to fully to,

1272
01:15:15,880 --> 01:15:18,639
Speaker 1: you know, deal with what's in front of him. But

1273
01:15:18,720 --> 01:15:21,920
Speaker 1: she has this very I mean, there's that scene with

1274
01:15:21,960 --> 01:15:24,679
Speaker 1: her and her uncle where she says, the jail didn't

1275
01:15:24,680 --> 01:15:29,280
Speaker 1: break him, we did, which is her putting more blame

1276
01:15:29,320 --> 01:15:31,400
Speaker 1: on her you know, we we know as a viewer

1277
01:15:31,479 --> 01:15:34,000
Speaker 1: she's putting a lot of undue blame on herself. But

1278
01:15:34,120 --> 01:15:39,639
Speaker 1: just the amount of grace that she extends the people

1279
01:15:39,680 --> 01:15:42,880
Speaker 1: in her life because she has such a thorough understanding

1280
01:15:42,880 --> 01:15:46,160
Speaker 1: of how circumstantial a lot of their problems are, I

1281
01:15:46,200 --> 01:15:50,080
Speaker 1: thought was like really cool. And and again just something

1282
01:15:50,120 --> 01:15:56,240
Speaker 1: you don't see that subtlety expressed in this genre really ever.

1283
01:15:57,640 --> 01:16:00,640
Speaker 1: And something you mentioned about the there's this kind of

1284
01:16:00,640 --> 01:16:03,880
Speaker 1: ongoing discussion throughout the movie about characters kind of having

1285
01:16:03,920 --> 01:16:08,160
Speaker 1: to age two rapidly on a maturity and kind of

1286
01:16:08,160 --> 01:16:11,960
Speaker 1: emotional and psychological level. There's also this idea of um

1287
01:16:12,160 --> 01:16:18,040
Speaker 1: characters being broken, and there is that discussion between um

1288
01:16:18,080 --> 01:16:21,559
Speaker 1: Aila and Berner talking about Joseph saying, you know, like

1289
01:16:21,600 --> 01:16:24,240
Speaker 1: you said Jamie, like Aila thinks that like we we

1290
01:16:24,400 --> 01:16:27,559
Speaker 1: broke him, And it's not necessarily clear if she means

1291
01:16:27,560 --> 01:16:30,040
Speaker 1: like we as the family or we us a community

1292
01:16:30,320 --> 01:16:34,280
Speaker 1: or what exactly. But then there's another quick interaction between

1293
01:16:34,320 --> 01:16:36,720
Speaker 1: Aila and Joseph at the end when he's saying the

1294
01:16:36,760 --> 01:16:39,000
Speaker 1: whole like you you're just a little girl, and she's like,

1295
01:16:39,040 --> 01:16:41,719
Speaker 1: I was never a little girl. And then he says,

1296
01:16:42,040 --> 01:16:45,599
Speaker 1: you know, your your mother was broken way before what happened,

1297
01:16:45,640 --> 01:16:48,120
Speaker 1: meaning like way before the accident that killed her brother.

1298
01:16:48,280 --> 01:16:51,040
Speaker 1: And this has nothing to do with you, and that,

1299
01:16:51,479 --> 01:16:55,280
Speaker 1: you know, is a reference to them becoming broken, being

1300
01:16:55,320 --> 01:16:58,400
Speaker 1: survivors of this residential school system and and and of

1301
01:16:58,479 --> 01:17:02,839
Speaker 1: this systemic oppression and racism of being you know, forced

1302
01:17:02,920 --> 01:17:09,120
Speaker 1: into reserve life, and it's it's just heartbreaking. Yeah, And

1303
01:17:09,160 --> 01:17:11,040
Speaker 1: I think that in some ways, And I was thinking

1304
01:17:11,040 --> 01:17:12,840
Speaker 1: about this, I think a little bit closer this time,

1305
01:17:12,880 --> 01:17:16,000
Speaker 1: because I was thinking about the podcast, and I was

1306
01:17:16,040 --> 01:17:19,160
Speaker 1: thinking about other films that you've discussed that that have

1307
01:17:19,320 --> 01:17:23,320
Speaker 1: like teenage female protagonists, and and I think that Ala

1308
01:17:24,040 --> 01:17:27,360
Speaker 1: has a certain amount of like as portrayed as having

1309
01:17:27,360 --> 01:17:29,479
Speaker 1: a certain amount of stoicism and a certain amount of

1310
01:17:29,479 --> 01:17:32,400
Speaker 1: like restraint, and a certain amount of like ability to

1311
01:17:32,400 --> 01:17:35,040
Speaker 1: see the larger picture that you kind of see crack

1312
01:17:35,200 --> 01:17:38,920
Speaker 1: at the end when she's like, you know, right before Popularize,

1313
01:17:38,920 --> 01:17:41,679
Speaker 1: when she's crying after she's found Sarah's and she sort

1314
01:17:41,720 --> 01:17:44,000
Speaker 1: of says, you know, the for the you know, the

1315
01:17:44,040 --> 01:17:46,280
Speaker 1: last rule of surviving in the Kingdom of the Crow

1316
01:17:46,320 --> 01:17:48,479
Speaker 1: has never let your emotional guard down. And I think

1317
01:17:48,520 --> 01:17:53,479
Speaker 1: that sometimes for kids who grow up or people just

1318
01:17:53,520 --> 01:17:56,360
Speaker 1: in general who grew up in in difficult situations, I

1319
01:17:56,400 --> 01:18:00,479
Speaker 1: think that sometimes like in order to survive, you need

1320
01:18:00,479 --> 01:18:02,680
Speaker 1: a kind of compartmentalizing and you need to kind of

1321
01:18:02,720 --> 01:18:06,599
Speaker 1: like have a very calm, steady demeanor because there's nothing

1322
01:18:06,600 --> 01:18:09,760
Speaker 1: else in your life that is that way, right, you know,

1323
01:18:09,880 --> 01:18:13,080
Speaker 1: And so I think that there's like a certain amount

1324
01:18:13,120 --> 01:18:15,040
Speaker 1: of that as well. And there's a certain amount of

1325
01:18:15,080 --> 01:18:19,440
Speaker 1: it too that like I kind of question how realistic

1326
01:18:19,439 --> 01:18:22,720
Speaker 1: it is, because I mean, I work with teenagers, um,

1327
01:18:22,840 --> 01:18:25,799
Speaker 1: you know, and like and and they're all lovely and

1328
01:18:26,320 --> 01:18:28,080
Speaker 1: none of them are going to listen to this, but

1329
01:18:28,640 --> 01:18:32,000
Speaker 1: I adore them all, and you know, I think that

1330
01:18:32,720 --> 01:18:34,479
Speaker 1: there is a certain amount of that that is sort

1331
01:18:34,479 --> 01:18:37,280
Speaker 1: of like creative license, but it is really hard to

1332
01:18:37,320 --> 01:18:39,559
Speaker 1: like place ALA's age, and it's really hard to like

1333
01:18:40,760 --> 01:18:45,120
Speaker 1: I think that, like I more turbulent character wouldn't have

1334
01:18:45,160 --> 01:18:47,599
Speaker 1: worked for the film. So I think that, like, also

1335
01:18:47,680 --> 01:18:51,719
Speaker 1: from a storytelling perspective, you know, Ala being this rock

1336
01:18:52,120 --> 01:18:55,160
Speaker 1: is is sort of important for the narrative, but also

1337
01:18:55,200 --> 01:18:59,439
Speaker 1: sort of, um, perhaps a little bit idealized. Um I

1338
01:18:59,520 --> 01:19:03,559
Speaker 1: see that, Yeah, she's and I feel like that kind

1339
01:19:03,560 --> 01:19:07,640
Speaker 1: of like undo. I mean that extreme strength and ability

1340
01:19:07,760 --> 01:19:14,760
Speaker 1: to compartmentalize also crosses over into how she remembers her

1341
01:19:14,840 --> 01:19:18,639
Speaker 1: mother and how which was kind of another I thought,

1342
01:19:18,920 --> 01:19:23,519
Speaker 1: pretty different, incredible approach by Jeff Barnaby that I totally

1343
01:19:23,560 --> 01:19:27,040
Speaker 1: agree if she were acting, you know, like your average teenager,

1344
01:19:27,800 --> 01:19:31,280
Speaker 1: may not have been possible. But I, I mean, it's

1345
01:19:31,400 --> 01:19:34,799
Speaker 1: I forget. I think it's her uncle. I think it's Burner.

1346
01:19:34,840 --> 01:19:37,840
Speaker 1: Early in the movie, once we flash forward and everything

1347
01:19:37,880 --> 01:19:41,880
Speaker 1: has happened, who insults her mother in front of her

1348
01:19:42,000 --> 01:19:48,400
Speaker 1: and she immediately because she has I mean this, this

1349
01:19:48,600 --> 01:19:53,440
Speaker 1: understanding of the circumstance of what happened was so tragic

1350
01:19:53,520 --> 01:19:57,240
Speaker 1: and so terrible, and even though it was a an

1351
01:19:57,240 --> 01:20:01,280
Speaker 1: accident then involved her mother. You know, she's able to

1352
01:20:01,360 --> 01:20:06,320
Speaker 1: kind of see the fuller picture and protect her mother's memory.

1353
01:20:06,360 --> 01:20:08,960
Speaker 1: Are you talking about the moment where he like he

1354
01:20:09,120 --> 01:20:11,840
Speaker 1: calls someone an old witch and then she's like, don't

1355
01:20:11,840 --> 01:20:14,320
Speaker 1: call her that, and then he's like, sorry, the old lady.

1356
01:20:14,520 --> 01:20:17,800
Speaker 1: I thought he was talking about Sirius. There was he

1357
01:20:18,320 --> 01:20:20,519
Speaker 1: I think he might have been okay, And then I

1358
01:20:20,560 --> 01:20:23,599
Speaker 1: misunderstood that because I think, yeah, he's talking about because

1359
01:20:23,600 --> 01:20:26,000
Speaker 1: she seems to be Sirius seems to be sort of

1360
01:20:26,439 --> 01:20:29,720
Speaker 1: it's at her house where like they're growing all the marijuana.

1361
01:20:29,800 --> 01:20:33,439
Speaker 1: I think that they sell and he's so there's certain

1362
01:20:33,520 --> 01:20:36,800
Speaker 1: kind of debts to her that they oh because like

1363
01:20:36,880 --> 01:20:41,040
Speaker 1: she's supplying stuff and then and then yeah, so and

1364
01:20:41,080 --> 01:20:43,320
Speaker 1: then they're like kind of moving the product around. But yeah,

1365
01:20:43,320 --> 01:20:45,120
Speaker 1: I think he's he's talking to her. But even so,

1366
01:20:45,160 --> 01:20:47,840
Speaker 1: I think your your point still valid, Jamie. Of like,

1367
01:20:48,840 --> 01:20:53,479
Speaker 1: I mean, everyone is broken and everyone's having to kind

1368
01:20:53,479 --> 01:20:58,760
Speaker 1: of compartmentalize, and it's and that's something that Aila has.

1369
01:20:59,360 --> 01:21:00,960
Speaker 1: I feel like us you were touching on this a

1370
01:21:00,960 --> 01:21:03,320
Speaker 1: little bit where in a world where there is not

1371
01:21:03,400 --> 01:21:06,120
Speaker 1: a lot that she has control over how she views

1372
01:21:06,120 --> 01:21:08,599
Speaker 1: her mother and how she holds her mother's memory is

1373
01:21:08,640 --> 01:21:14,679
Speaker 1: something that she has control over. Um. And it's interesting

1374
01:21:14,680 --> 01:21:18,080
Speaker 1: too because UM, I was gonna say, you know, even

1375
01:21:18,080 --> 01:21:21,240
Speaker 1: though Indigenous women have been you know, a target of

1376
01:21:21,320 --> 01:21:27,919
Speaker 1: colonialism and colonial violence through the Indian acting in other ways, UM,

1377
01:21:27,960 --> 01:21:32,200
Speaker 1: you know, Indigenous women are also at the forefront of

1378
01:21:32,320 --> 01:21:36,360
Speaker 1: a lot of activism that happens UM and is still happening.

1379
01:21:36,479 --> 01:21:39,720
Speaker 1: You know. One thing that was going on when this

1380
01:21:39,760 --> 01:21:42,360
Speaker 1: film UH first came out in two thousand and thirteen

1381
01:21:42,439 --> 01:21:45,599
Speaker 1: was the beginning of Idle No More, which is an

1382
01:21:45,600 --> 01:21:48,840
Speaker 1: indigenous rights movement here in Canada and in some parts

1383
01:21:48,840 --> 01:21:50,720
Speaker 1: of the United States as well. Like it's standing rock

1384
01:21:50,760 --> 01:21:54,759
Speaker 1: there res Idle No More, folks. And it was started

1385
01:21:54,800 --> 01:21:58,439
Speaker 1: by four women, three Indigenous and one white, ally because

1386
01:21:58,439 --> 01:22:00,760
Speaker 1: they wanted to stand up against this bill that the

1387
01:22:00,760 --> 01:22:04,479
Speaker 1: government was introducing that would have changed UH not only

1388
01:22:04,520 --> 01:22:06,200
Speaker 1: a lot of Indigenous rights, but also a lot of

1389
01:22:06,240 --> 01:22:10,120
Speaker 1: environmental protections. So they got together and they're like, we're

1390
01:22:10,120 --> 01:22:11,800
Speaker 1: not going to be idle anymore. And it's spread to

1391
01:22:11,840 --> 01:22:15,479
Speaker 1: becoming this national protest movement. It spread to becoming a

1392
01:22:15,520 --> 01:22:18,839
Speaker 1: bigger sort of movement for indigenous rights here in Canada,

1393
01:22:19,360 --> 01:22:21,439
Speaker 1: and that was started, you know, by by four women

1394
01:22:21,479 --> 01:22:24,479
Speaker 1: sort of sitting around the table in the prairies like

1395
01:22:24,600 --> 01:22:28,800
Speaker 1: just like deciding, you know, we're done. So there is,

1396
01:22:28,880 --> 01:22:32,720
Speaker 1: like I think, in the character veil out like in

1397
01:22:32,840 --> 01:22:35,719
Speaker 1: an understanding some of like Jeff's like motivations were wanting

1398
01:22:35,760 --> 01:22:39,200
Speaker 1: to create a character that way, Like I think I

1399
01:22:39,280 --> 01:22:43,080
Speaker 1: understand like that he's also paying tribute to women like that,

1400
01:22:43,160 --> 01:22:46,880
Speaker 1: you know, who have like held it together and who

1401
01:22:46,920 --> 01:22:50,880
Speaker 1: are like trying to make change and who are in

1402
01:22:50,920 --> 01:22:53,320
Speaker 1: so many ways taking all this garbage that the world

1403
01:22:53,320 --> 01:22:56,479
Speaker 1: puts on them and trying to make change and do

1404
01:22:56,560 --> 01:22:58,920
Speaker 1: things that are different, and also like the compassion that

1405
01:22:58,960 --> 01:23:03,280
Speaker 1: it takes to take all that ship and and still

1406
01:23:03,320 --> 01:23:06,439
Speaker 1: turn around and be able to say, like, you know,

1407
01:23:06,600 --> 01:23:09,360
Speaker 1: I'm going to march and I'm gonna I'm going to

1408
01:23:10,040 --> 01:23:12,200
Speaker 1: write letters and I'm going to do a hunger fast.

1409
01:23:12,439 --> 01:23:15,320
Speaker 1: And yeah, I think that that's really really powerful. And

1410
01:23:15,720 --> 01:23:18,160
Speaker 1: I think that like so I think that there's also

1411
01:23:18,280 --> 01:23:20,920
Speaker 1: like that element too of of like when I say

1412
01:23:20,920 --> 01:23:22,880
Speaker 1: that it is a little bit of an idealized character,

1413
01:23:23,040 --> 01:23:24,639
Speaker 1: Like I think that there's also a measure of that

1414
01:23:24,640 --> 01:23:27,800
Speaker 1: that's like paying tribute in like a positive way to

1415
01:23:28,560 --> 01:23:31,720
Speaker 1: the role that Indigenous women play in politics and in

1416
01:23:31,760 --> 01:23:36,160
Speaker 1: their communities. Mm hmm for sure. Um, there was one

1417
01:23:36,200 --> 01:23:39,960
Speaker 1: thing that just kind of coming off of something that

1418
01:23:40,360 --> 01:23:43,960
Speaker 1: I think you mentioned Caitlin about like the selling drugs

1419
01:23:44,040 --> 01:23:47,000
Speaker 1: and like being broken. And I wanted to talk a

1420
01:23:47,040 --> 01:23:50,960
Speaker 1: little bit about that because I'm so I'm interested, um

1421
01:23:51,080 --> 01:23:55,880
Speaker 1: in what your first impressions of that were, because we're

1422
01:23:55,880 --> 01:23:59,600
Speaker 1: so used to seeing these images of like drunk Indians

1423
01:24:00,640 --> 01:24:05,000
Speaker 1: and you know that's been so prevalent in in North

1424
01:24:05,040 --> 01:24:10,000
Speaker 1: American cinema since the beginning of North American cinema. Um,

1425
01:24:10,080 --> 01:24:14,800
Speaker 1: so did you feel at all sort of did you

1426
01:24:14,840 --> 01:24:16,559
Speaker 1: feel any kind of way, I guess like sort of

1427
01:24:16,560 --> 01:24:20,320
Speaker 1: like seeing those scenes in the beginning, Like I honestly,

1428
01:24:20,360 --> 01:24:23,960
Speaker 1: I mean I my first reaction was, I don't I mean,

1429
01:24:23,960 --> 01:24:27,080
Speaker 1: I knew that, you know, Jeff Barnaby is an Indigenous filmmaker.

1430
01:24:27,120 --> 01:24:29,519
Speaker 1: I'm like, I'm gonna I'm on this ride with him

1431
01:24:29,600 --> 01:24:32,280
Speaker 1: he and I knew he was speaking to his own community.

1432
01:24:32,800 --> 01:24:36,280
Speaker 1: It did like make me go oh no for for

1433
01:24:36,320 --> 01:24:40,240
Speaker 1: a moment only because I don't know. I mean, like

1434
01:24:40,360 --> 01:24:44,559
Speaker 1: we've all seen movies where those stereotypes have played out

1435
01:24:44,680 --> 01:24:49,639
Speaker 1: and then you get no context for anything. But this

1436
01:24:49,720 --> 01:24:54,440
Speaker 1: movie felt like it was all context for Like what

1437
01:24:54,439 --> 01:25:00,000
Speaker 1: what led to those stereotypes being so widely perpetuated without

1438
01:25:00,120 --> 01:25:04,400
Speaker 1: context entirely? So yeah, I think it. It gave me

1439
01:25:04,600 --> 01:25:08,320
Speaker 1: pause for like a second, but then when it was clear,

1440
01:25:08,360 --> 01:25:12,520
Speaker 1: I mean, the first frame of the movie is context. Um,

1441
01:25:12,680 --> 01:25:15,479
Speaker 1: So I feel like this. And I was reading in

1442
01:25:16,080 --> 01:25:18,920
Speaker 1: just this same interview with him in Muskrat magazine that

1443
01:25:19,560 --> 01:25:24,240
Speaker 1: he had experienced some pushback um from other filmmakers in

1444
01:25:24,280 --> 01:25:26,519
Speaker 1: the community that were just like, well, you're showing these

1445
01:25:26,520 --> 01:25:29,880
Speaker 1: stereotypes and like, you know, like I don't have any

1446
01:25:29,880 --> 01:25:32,519
Speaker 1: interest in seeing that portrayed on screen in any way,

1447
01:25:33,520 --> 01:25:37,479
Speaker 1: and his response being something you've already referenced just where

1448
01:25:37,520 --> 01:25:41,000
Speaker 1: he was just like, well, I'm showing you my community

1449
01:25:41,160 --> 01:25:45,639
Speaker 1: and reflecting my own experiences growing up, So like, how

1450
01:25:45,680 --> 01:25:49,400
Speaker 1: can you tell me what I can like I can't

1451
01:25:49,439 --> 01:25:52,840
Speaker 1: reflect my own experience, right. It almost it's like sort

1452
01:25:52,880 --> 01:25:56,519
Speaker 1: of finding a balance of like do I do a

1453
01:25:56,600 --> 01:26:01,200
Speaker 1: disservice to my community by ignoring some very real truths

1454
01:26:01,240 --> 01:26:05,519
Speaker 1: of what is taking place? Or do I I mean,

1455
01:26:05,560 --> 01:26:08,439
Speaker 1: we talked about this a little bit on a recent

1456
01:26:08,479 --> 01:26:13,439
Speaker 1: episode we recorded on the Matreon about UM what We

1457
01:26:13,520 --> 01:26:16,959
Speaker 1: Do in the Shadows, where it was written and directed

1458
01:26:16,960 --> 01:26:20,960
Speaker 1: by both Takeaway and Jamaine Clement, who are both Maori,

1459
01:26:21,680 --> 01:26:23,840
Speaker 1: and we were talking about how cool it is to

1460
01:26:23,960 --> 01:26:27,840
Speaker 1: see because there's like this kind of discussion around it

1461
01:26:27,880 --> 01:26:31,160
Speaker 1: feels like there's a lot of pressure on filmmakers of

1462
01:26:31,200 --> 01:26:35,000
Speaker 1: any marginalized community to only talk about that. It's like,

1463
01:26:35,120 --> 01:26:39,160
Speaker 1: if you're black, you can only make movies about racism,

1464
01:26:39,479 --> 01:26:44,680
Speaker 1: and like that's your expertise, so that's what you have

1465
01:26:44,760 --> 01:26:46,840
Speaker 1: to make art about. And and how it was like

1466
01:26:46,920 --> 01:26:51,120
Speaker 1: really cool to see this like really goofy vampire mockumentary

1467
01:26:51,200 --> 01:26:55,040
Speaker 1: that's like so funny and just like so silly made

1468
01:26:55,040 --> 01:26:59,360
Speaker 1: by these indigenous Maori filmmakers. But then there's also like

1469
01:26:59,400 --> 01:27:03,080
Speaker 1: you know, Tyka made Boy, which is about his upbringing

1470
01:27:03,800 --> 01:27:07,280
Speaker 1: in his like Maori community. I mean, and you can

1471
01:27:07,280 --> 01:27:09,599
Speaker 1: speak to this as a filmmaker to jests of UM

1472
01:27:09,720 --> 01:27:12,719
Speaker 1: feeling that this pressure of like do I make movies

1473
01:27:13,080 --> 01:27:15,160
Speaker 1: that I want to make that are fun and silly

1474
01:27:15,200 --> 01:27:16,800
Speaker 1: if that those are the movies I want to make,

1475
01:27:16,920 --> 01:27:19,599
Speaker 1: or do I you know, it's like this kind of

1476
01:27:19,640 --> 01:27:25,200
Speaker 1: ongoing dilemma, Oh for sure. And it's I mean, like

1477
01:27:25,240 --> 01:27:28,040
Speaker 1: take also directed one of the thor films I think,

1478
01:27:29,560 --> 01:27:34,240
Speaker 1: you know, those films, tiny little marvel mu movies that

1479
01:27:34,280 --> 01:27:37,559
Speaker 1: no one's ever heard of, right, um, And it's it's

1480
01:27:37,600 --> 01:27:41,720
Speaker 1: interesting because I think that, like, yeah, I feel so

1481
01:27:41,720 --> 01:27:45,760
Speaker 1: acutely where Jeff is coming from, especially because you know,

1482
01:27:46,080 --> 01:27:48,320
Speaker 1: we all kind of in terms of like filmmaking here

1483
01:27:48,320 --> 01:27:50,000
Speaker 1: in Canada, we all kind of have to navigate the

1484
01:27:50,000 --> 01:27:54,040
Speaker 1: same systems of the same funders. So you know, we're

1485
01:27:54,040 --> 01:27:57,040
Speaker 1: fortunate in the sense that, like we do have public

1486
01:27:57,080 --> 01:27:59,599
Speaker 1: funding for the art. You know, I wouldn't trade that

1487
01:27:59,680 --> 01:28:03,960
Speaker 1: friend thing, but that also means that and and you

1488
01:28:04,000 --> 01:28:05,840
Speaker 1: know this is changing a little bit now, but you know,

1489
01:28:05,840 --> 01:28:08,479
Speaker 1: I've been doing this for like a decade close on

1490
01:28:09,040 --> 01:28:11,920
Speaker 1: and uh, you know, a lot of the funders are

1491
01:28:11,960 --> 01:28:15,000
Speaker 1: not like bipop people. They're not queer people, they're not

1492
01:28:15,040 --> 01:28:17,360
Speaker 1: you know a lot of the funders are still like,

1493
01:28:18,000 --> 01:28:22,040
Speaker 1: you know, a very specific type of bureaucrat. So when

1494
01:28:22,080 --> 01:28:25,360
Speaker 1: you're talking about like yeah, there, it can feel sometimes

1495
01:28:25,360 --> 01:28:29,040
Speaker 1: like you're you're just ticking boxes. I'm sort of like, Okay,

1496
01:28:29,120 --> 01:28:31,360
Speaker 1: I want to make my film, but I want to

1497
01:28:31,360 --> 01:28:34,320
Speaker 1: make it this way, and it's like, you know, a

1498
01:28:34,360 --> 01:28:37,360
Speaker 1: funder is not necessarily going to be like, well, you know,

1499
01:28:37,920 --> 01:28:40,280
Speaker 1: you're an indigenous filmmaker and you just want to make

1500
01:28:40,320 --> 01:28:44,040
Speaker 1: like a zombie movie, like I don't know, you know,

1501
01:28:44,120 --> 01:28:46,560
Speaker 1: Like so it's it's complicated some of the way that

1502
01:28:46,600 --> 01:28:50,479
Speaker 1: we have to navigate that. Um. I also make Worker

1503
01:28:50,640 --> 01:28:52,640
Speaker 1: and and want to continue to make work that is

1504
01:28:52,760 --> 01:28:56,519
Speaker 1: also in that genre sort of space. Um. Yeah, it

1505
01:28:56,560 --> 01:28:58,360
Speaker 1: can be really, it can be really difficult at times,

1506
01:28:58,400 --> 01:29:02,639
Speaker 1: and there is all this kind of like pressure sometimes too, yeah,

1507
01:29:02,720 --> 01:29:07,240
Speaker 1: like to to not show certain things because like it

1508
01:29:07,240 --> 01:29:11,559
Speaker 1: always comes back to the reality of representation, because you know,

1509
01:29:11,720 --> 01:29:14,559
Speaker 1: this is like blood Quantum. We keep talking about blood quantum.

1510
01:29:14,560 --> 01:29:16,680
Speaker 1: People are just gonna have food quantum. We just have

1511
01:29:16,840 --> 01:29:21,040
Speaker 1: to do blood Quantum for Halloween next year. Absolutely, I

1512
01:29:21,080 --> 01:29:23,360
Speaker 1: will come back if you want me to please. Yes,

1513
01:29:23,600 --> 01:29:25,840
Speaker 1: I waited like four years for that film. Anyway, that's

1514
01:29:25,880 --> 01:29:29,639
Speaker 1: another story for another day. But when you're talking about

1515
01:29:29,720 --> 01:29:33,760
Speaker 1: Ryse Starnkles, it's such a singular film. You know, it's

1516
01:29:33,760 --> 01:29:36,080
Speaker 1: a coming of age story, it's a heist movie. It's

1517
01:29:36,439 --> 01:29:38,880
Speaker 1: our story of revenge, and it's it's taken place in

1518
01:29:38,880 --> 01:29:41,200
Speaker 1: this you know, it's a historical piece as well, Like

1519
01:29:41,760 --> 01:29:44,679
Speaker 1: it's such a particular thing that like when the pressure

1520
01:29:44,720 --> 01:29:47,160
Speaker 1: is on you, it's like you are the one that

1521
01:29:47,600 --> 01:29:50,560
Speaker 1: we are giving our small amounts of Canadian money to

1522
01:29:50,560 --> 01:29:54,000
Speaker 1: to make this film. It's like not only are you

1523
01:29:54,080 --> 01:29:56,559
Speaker 1: just like the only like at that point in time,

1524
01:29:56,600 --> 01:29:58,360
Speaker 1: you know, like one of the most high profile like

1525
01:29:58,680 --> 01:30:03,520
Speaker 1: Nigma filmmakers, one of only a handful of Indigenous filmmakers.

1526
01:30:04,760 --> 01:30:07,960
Speaker 1: It's also like you know, you you've been awarded this

1527
01:30:08,040 --> 01:30:13,240
Speaker 1: like highly sought after like money, you know. So yeah,

1528
01:30:13,240 --> 01:30:15,680
Speaker 1: so there are all these like weird pressures sometimes. And

1529
01:30:16,640 --> 01:30:20,519
Speaker 1: I just finished making a film with the NFB about

1530
01:30:20,800 --> 01:30:27,160
Speaker 1: Queerness and Magma culture, um like a short personal documentary.

1531
01:30:27,200 --> 01:30:29,960
Speaker 1: And that process was really interesting because the first time

1532
01:30:30,000 --> 01:30:33,080
Speaker 1: I've worked with the n FC is the National Film

1533
01:30:33,120 --> 01:30:35,080
Speaker 1: Board here in Canada. Sorry, I feel like I'm using

1534
01:30:35,120 --> 01:30:37,840
Speaker 1: all this. I was like guessing around. I was like, okay,

1535
01:30:38,160 --> 01:30:45,160
Speaker 1: I was like, is it National Film Business Board business here?

1536
01:30:45,840 --> 01:30:50,320
Speaker 1: It's like sounds so vague. So the National Film Board

1537
01:30:50,360 --> 01:30:53,400
Speaker 1: is is like a Canadian institution that funds and supports

1538
01:30:53,640 --> 01:30:56,720
Speaker 1: film and new media production in Canada. UM. So it

1539
01:30:56,800 --> 01:30:58,519
Speaker 1: was my first time working with such a big funder

1540
01:30:58,680 --> 01:31:01,639
Speaker 1: that has like such a not just a storied history,

1541
01:31:01,880 --> 01:31:04,400
Speaker 1: but also you know, they want oscars like it's a

1542
01:31:04,439 --> 01:31:07,040
Speaker 1: big deal. And it was a very interesting process because

1543
01:31:07,080 --> 01:31:10,600
Speaker 1: I definitely found myself at times like getting feedback that

1544
01:31:10,680 --> 01:31:13,600
Speaker 1: I was like, well, that's not how I want to

1545
01:31:13,600 --> 01:31:15,400
Speaker 1: do things, you know. And I was fortunate to work

1546
01:31:15,400 --> 01:31:18,479
Speaker 1: with a production team that had worked with other Indigenous

1547
01:31:18,479 --> 01:31:22,080
Speaker 1: filmmakers before and was very understanding, but like there was

1548
01:31:22,120 --> 01:31:23,680
Speaker 1: also a lot of times where I had to like

1549
01:31:23,760 --> 01:31:26,160
Speaker 1: be like, no, that's not how protocol works, Like that's

1550
01:31:26,200 --> 01:31:29,560
Speaker 1: not how you know. When I was going into communities

1551
01:31:29,720 --> 01:31:32,640
Speaker 1: and like spending time with other queer Magma folks, I

1552
01:31:32,640 --> 01:31:34,280
Speaker 1: had to be like, well, I have to let them know,

1553
01:31:35,200 --> 01:31:38,240
Speaker 1: like within this time delay, because like I can't just

1554
01:31:38,280 --> 01:31:41,640
Speaker 1: leave it till day of like, because there's protocols, you know,

1555
01:31:41,720 --> 01:31:43,719
Speaker 1: There's there's things that you have to do to be polite.

1556
01:31:43,840 --> 01:31:46,280
Speaker 1: There's things that you have to prepare. You know, if

1557
01:31:46,280 --> 01:31:47,800
Speaker 1: I'm going to go talk to an elder, there's a

1558
01:31:47,800 --> 01:31:49,519
Speaker 1: certain amount of things that I have to do before

1559
01:31:49,520 --> 01:31:52,360
Speaker 1: I go talk to that elder, like just out of respect.

1560
01:31:53,200 --> 01:31:55,760
Speaker 1: It's like going to visit a foreign country. You know,

1561
01:31:55,840 --> 01:31:58,240
Speaker 1: like there's just things that you have to do and

1562
01:31:58,840 --> 01:32:01,280
Speaker 1: there's still a big leg even like understanding of those

1563
01:32:01,280 --> 01:32:07,360
Speaker 1: things sometimes. So yeah, Si, you know, it's like you

1564
01:32:08,120 --> 01:32:10,920
Speaker 1: sometimes like as an indigenous filmmaker, you can feel like

1565
01:32:10,960 --> 01:32:15,280
Speaker 1: you're battling against like so many different like things that

1566
01:32:15,320 --> 01:32:18,640
Speaker 1: you might have to compromise on, you know, like, Okay,

1567
01:32:19,040 --> 01:32:20,760
Speaker 1: not everybody's gonna like then I'm going to show this

1568
01:32:20,800 --> 01:32:23,320
Speaker 1: in this way. At the same time, am I working

1569
01:32:23,320 --> 01:32:27,760
Speaker 1: with a funder who understands my nation's culture? You know?

1570
01:32:28,120 --> 01:32:31,800
Speaker 1: Am I just being tokenized? Am I like wasting this

1571
01:32:31,880 --> 01:32:34,559
Speaker 1: like tiny little bit of money but it's the only

1572
01:32:34,600 --> 01:32:37,640
Speaker 1: money we have, you know. Like, so there's all these

1573
01:32:37,640 --> 01:32:40,720
Speaker 1: different things that kind of play into that. But uh,

1574
01:32:41,200 --> 01:32:42,920
Speaker 1: you know, we're starting to talk a lot more about

1575
01:32:43,720 --> 01:32:47,519
Speaker 1: narrative sovereignty. Even just the idea that it should be

1576
01:32:47,520 --> 01:32:52,160
Speaker 1: indigenous filmmakers making indigenous films is very new, which it

1577
01:32:52,160 --> 01:32:54,320
Speaker 1: shouldn't be, but it is a very new idea in

1578
01:32:54,400 --> 01:32:58,200
Speaker 1: Canada in the United States. So I'm hoping with that

1579
01:32:58,200 --> 01:33:00,880
Speaker 1: that there'll just be more opportunity, as you know, and

1580
01:33:00,880 --> 01:33:02,720
Speaker 1: if there are more opportunities in there can be more

1581
01:33:02,720 --> 01:33:06,280
Speaker 1: people making films. Therefore, you know, the one Native person

1582
01:33:06,320 --> 01:33:07,920
Speaker 1: making a film doesn't have to make a film that

1583
01:33:07,960 --> 01:33:10,800
Speaker 1: represents all Native people, you know. They can just make

1584
01:33:10,840 --> 01:33:12,880
Speaker 1: the one Native film that they want to make, and

1585
01:33:12,920 --> 01:33:15,639
Speaker 1: then me over here, I can make the Native film

1586
01:33:15,640 --> 01:33:18,120
Speaker 1: that I want to make, you know, like, and they

1587
01:33:18,160 --> 01:33:19,960
Speaker 1: don't have to be the same thing, and it doesn't

1588
01:33:19,960 --> 01:33:23,800
Speaker 1: have to fit into sort of like this very specific expectation,

1589
01:33:24,040 --> 01:33:26,439
Speaker 1: you know, right, And they can have be all different

1590
01:33:26,520 --> 01:33:29,680
Speaker 1: kinds of stories and they can span all different genres

1591
01:33:29,720 --> 01:33:32,800
Speaker 1: and they it's it's almost just like, well, I'm wondering if,

1592
01:33:32,800 --> 01:33:35,080
Speaker 1: like Jeff Barnemy is like, this is my one chance

1593
01:33:35,120 --> 01:33:38,000
Speaker 1: to make a film, I have to just like pack

1594
01:33:38,040 --> 01:33:41,160
Speaker 1: in every genre. Like it's not as though the movie

1595
01:33:41,240 --> 01:33:43,320
Speaker 1: is like Fils modeled or anything like that. But it's

1596
01:33:43,360 --> 01:33:45,800
Speaker 1: like we need to get to a place where there

1597
01:33:45,800 --> 01:33:49,920
Speaker 1: just should never be that much pressure on a single filmmaker.

1598
01:33:50,800 --> 01:33:55,040
Speaker 1: Like it just it doesn't make sense. And I'm glad

1599
01:33:55,080 --> 01:33:59,840
Speaker 1: that he spoke to that issue and also just said, like,

1600
01:34:00,800 --> 01:34:04,479
Speaker 1: there are indigenous filmmakers that didn't like the movie I made,

1601
01:34:04,640 --> 01:34:08,439
Speaker 1: and I disagree with them, and it is what it is.

1602
01:34:08,640 --> 01:34:11,280
Speaker 1: It is what it is. Yeah, And there shouldn't have

1603
01:34:11,280 --> 01:34:15,920
Speaker 1: been that much pressure on his movie to represent everybody.

1604
01:34:15,960 --> 01:34:20,840
Speaker 1: But like you're saying, just that there's not enough opportunities

1605
01:34:21,120 --> 01:34:24,640
Speaker 1: and so that pressure is created and it just spirals

1606
01:34:24,720 --> 01:34:27,000
Speaker 1: up from there, and it's I mean, I think that

1607
01:34:27,120 --> 01:34:30,160
Speaker 1: like even in a broader sense like of just like

1608
01:34:30,200 --> 01:34:32,439
Speaker 1: any kind of marginalized filmmaker. I mean I would even

1609
01:34:32,439 --> 01:34:35,240
Speaker 1: include like female filmmakers in that. Like you know, when

1610
01:34:35,240 --> 01:34:37,519
Speaker 1: you look at somebody like a Katherine Bigelow, you know,

1611
01:34:37,600 --> 01:34:39,960
Speaker 1: often people are like, oh, well, she's so exemplary as

1612
01:34:40,000 --> 01:34:42,439
Speaker 1: like a as a female filmmaker because she's making like

1613
01:34:42,520 --> 01:34:45,000
Speaker 1: action films, you know, and it should be fine for

1614
01:34:45,680 --> 01:34:47,400
Speaker 1: a woman to make an action film. It should be

1615
01:34:47,400 --> 01:34:50,479
Speaker 1: fine for an African American filmmaker to make like an

1616
01:34:50,520 --> 01:34:53,160
Speaker 1: experimental video work. It should be fine for an indigenous

1617
01:34:53,160 --> 01:34:56,680
Speaker 1: filmmaker to make a alien movie. You know, Like it

1618
01:34:56,720 --> 01:35:01,240
Speaker 1: should be fine because when assist hit like a white

1619
01:35:01,280 --> 01:35:06,360
Speaker 1: straight you know, filmmaker wants to go and make a

1620
01:35:06,400 --> 01:35:10,320
Speaker 1: film about I don't know, let's just pick like like

1621
01:35:10,400 --> 01:35:13,679
Speaker 1: a female coming of age story, Nobody's like, well, are

1622
01:35:13,720 --> 01:35:16,800
Speaker 1: you sure, are you sure that you can speak to that?

1623
01:35:16,880 --> 01:35:21,240
Speaker 1: You're like, nobody, nobody scrutinizes, and I know that, like

1624
01:35:21,880 --> 01:35:23,960
Speaker 1: I know, we pick on white straight men an awful lot,

1625
01:35:24,000 --> 01:35:28,400
Speaker 1: and they're awful fragile, but it's true, you know, Like

1626
01:35:28,520 --> 01:35:32,000
Speaker 1: I I've had conversations with like filmmaking friends, you know,

1627
01:35:32,040 --> 01:35:35,680
Speaker 1: people that I absolutely adore, you know, who are male filmmakers,

1628
01:35:36,160 --> 01:35:38,720
Speaker 1: and nobody questions them at that, like why they want

1629
01:35:38,720 --> 01:35:40,439
Speaker 1: to make a film that they want to make. They're like, oh,

1630
01:35:40,520 --> 01:35:42,479
Speaker 1: I just want to tell the story. It's like, well,

1631
01:35:42,520 --> 01:35:46,400
Speaker 1: are you the person to do it? Though? Yeah? Like, well,

1632
01:35:46,600 --> 01:35:49,639
Speaker 1: you know, I want to make like a film where

1633
01:35:49,640 --> 01:35:52,599
Speaker 1: it's like two dudes and they travel through time. People

1634
01:35:52,600 --> 01:35:55,320
Speaker 1: are like are you sure though? Are they going to

1635
01:35:55,400 --> 01:35:58,519
Speaker 1: be native dudes? And You're like, you can't win, you

1636
01:35:58,560 --> 01:36:02,760
Speaker 1: can't win a yeah, it's I There was a I mean,

1637
01:36:02,760 --> 01:36:05,759
Speaker 1: there's a just a news item from this past week

1638
01:36:05,840 --> 01:36:09,760
Speaker 1: where there is that conversation where Lu lu Wang was

1639
01:36:10,280 --> 01:36:14,040
Speaker 1: critical of Ron Howard because Ron Howard's like, I want

1640
01:36:14,040 --> 01:36:19,240
Speaker 1: to make a film about Chinese pianist Lang Lang, and

1641
01:36:19,840 --> 01:36:23,160
Speaker 1: he's Ron Howard, so he can just do he can

1642
01:36:23,200 --> 01:36:26,800
Speaker 1: just do anything he fucking wants. And Lu lu Wang

1643
01:36:27,040 --> 01:36:30,080
Speaker 1: basically made the argument and and just that's my first

1644
01:36:30,120 --> 01:36:34,080
Speaker 1: time coming up hearing that term narrative sovereignty. But I

1645
01:36:34,120 --> 01:36:38,360
Speaker 1: love it because that's essentially the argument she's making of, like, well,

1646
01:36:38,400 --> 01:36:40,320
Speaker 1: why the fund does Ron Howard get to do this?

1647
01:36:40,920 --> 01:36:43,880
Speaker 1: And I think that, you know, not even picking on

1648
01:36:44,000 --> 01:36:46,479
Speaker 1: Ron Howard specifically, but that is such a trend. But

1649
01:36:46,520 --> 01:36:49,519
Speaker 1: it's like, well, no one has really been allowed, like

1650
01:36:49,560 --> 01:36:52,839
Speaker 1: no one has been allowed to ask those questions until

1651
01:36:53,000 --> 01:36:57,439
Speaker 1: so recently that like, yeah, however you feel about Ron Howard,

1652
01:36:58,320 --> 01:37:00,200
Speaker 1: what the fucking titles him to make him to me

1653
01:37:00,280 --> 01:37:03,439
Speaker 1: about something? Like it's just and and that should just

1654
01:37:03,479 --> 01:37:06,000
Speaker 1: be a basic question as opposed to it. Oftentimes it

1655
01:37:06,040 --> 01:37:09,240
Speaker 1: gets construed as like an attack and like like brought

1656
01:37:09,280 --> 01:37:11,759
Speaker 1: out to her for like speaking out about that, because

1657
01:37:12,560 --> 01:37:15,559
Speaker 1: I think she's brilliant, but like, like it's also Ron Howard,

1658
01:37:15,560 --> 01:37:17,519
Speaker 1: Like I feel like he has so much cultural cache

1659
01:37:17,840 --> 01:37:20,519
Speaker 1: that we didn't even very recent memory, this would be

1660
01:37:20,560 --> 01:37:22,120
Speaker 1: a piece that wouldn't even like it would be a

1661
01:37:22,160 --> 01:37:25,080
Speaker 1: non issue, Like nobody would run this piece because it's like,

1662
01:37:26,200 --> 01:37:29,040
Speaker 1: well who are you you know, like yeah, you know,

1663
01:37:30,280 --> 01:37:34,080
Speaker 1: just like fund the movie, don't direct it, like if

1664
01:37:34,120 --> 01:37:37,480
Speaker 1: you can help get it made by a Chinese filmmaker,

1665
01:37:38,360 --> 01:37:41,599
Speaker 1: do that, don't direct it like you don't, And then

1666
01:37:41,600 --> 01:37:46,240
Speaker 1: I mean, gosh, I mean your your example, Jess, I

1667
01:37:46,280 --> 01:37:49,000
Speaker 1: feel like you perhaps were referring to Eighth Grade, which

1668
01:37:49,080 --> 01:37:54,400
Speaker 1: is a movie that I love and I hate it.

1669
01:37:54,439 --> 01:37:56,639
Speaker 1: Pisces me off that I love it so much because

1670
01:37:56,640 --> 01:37:59,360
Speaker 1: I'm like Bo Burnham, what do you know? And it

1671
01:37:59,439 --> 01:38:02,320
Speaker 1: turned out well, But I'm just like, damn it, that

1672
01:38:02,439 --> 01:38:05,080
Speaker 1: wasn't your story to tell and how did you get

1673
01:38:05,120 --> 01:38:07,680
Speaker 1: it so right? Well? I mean, I love that movie too,

1674
01:38:07,680 --> 01:38:10,240
Speaker 1: but I think even just like going off this conversation

1675
01:38:10,280 --> 01:38:14,679
Speaker 1: we're having, that movie was held up so quickly as

1676
01:38:14,720 --> 01:38:17,679
Speaker 1: a classic of the genre in a way that may

1677
01:38:17,680 --> 01:38:21,040
Speaker 1: not have been true for someone that would have, you know,

1678
01:38:21,120 --> 01:38:24,800
Speaker 1: an actual familiarity of of that character's experience, where it's

1679
01:38:24,840 --> 01:38:28,479
Speaker 1: just like, well, you know, Bo Burnham, love him. And

1680
01:38:28,520 --> 01:38:30,920
Speaker 1: again it's like framing it as not an attack but

1681
01:38:31,040 --> 01:38:34,280
Speaker 1: just a valid question of like why does this work

1682
01:38:34,320 --> 01:38:37,800
Speaker 1: get elevated to instant classic of a female coming of

1683
01:38:37,840 --> 01:38:41,360
Speaker 1: age story? And so many women can't even get their

1684
01:38:41,360 --> 01:38:44,480
Speaker 1: fucking movie made, you know, Like it's just no absolutely,

1685
01:38:44,520 --> 01:38:46,840
Speaker 1: and and like I wasn't thinking of a specific I

1686
01:38:46,880 --> 01:38:48,960
Speaker 1: didn't have a specific film in mind, but I feel

1687
01:38:49,000 --> 01:38:51,960
Speaker 1: like there's so many examples, right, you know, and it

1688
01:38:52,000 --> 01:38:54,400
Speaker 1: and it drives me off the wall because I see

1689
01:38:54,439 --> 01:38:57,640
Speaker 1: so much talent and I and I work, you know,

1690
01:38:57,720 --> 01:38:59,439
Speaker 1: like I said, I work a lot with with teens,

1691
01:38:59,520 --> 01:39:02,160
Speaker 1: especially teens who are interested in art and are interested

1692
01:39:02,160 --> 01:39:06,599
Speaker 1: in filmmaking and are interested in animation. And truly, there

1693
01:39:06,680 --> 01:39:08,479
Speaker 1: is so much talent out there, and there's so much

1694
01:39:08,520 --> 01:39:11,639
Speaker 1: brilliance out there, you know, like especially with how accessible

1695
01:39:11,640 --> 01:39:14,960
Speaker 1: technology is now. Like I didn't learn how to use

1696
01:39:14,960 --> 01:39:17,720
Speaker 1: photoshop until I was in university, and like I will

1697
01:39:17,760 --> 01:39:19,519
Speaker 1: be talking to like a thirteen year old that's like,

1698
01:39:19,520 --> 01:39:21,240
Speaker 1: oh yeah, look at this like cool thing I made

1699
01:39:21,240 --> 01:39:24,200
Speaker 1: in Photoshop the other day, and I'm like, all right,

1700
01:39:24,400 --> 01:39:28,120
Speaker 1: you know, like my cousin, my my nephew, my my

1701
01:39:28,160 --> 01:39:32,040
Speaker 1: cousin's son is thirteen and he's already like making little

1702
01:39:32,080 --> 01:39:36,240
Speaker 1: animated films. I'm like, that's amazing, you know, Like I

1703
01:39:36,280 --> 01:39:38,080
Speaker 1: want to see more of that, not less of it.

1704
01:39:38,160 --> 01:39:40,960
Speaker 1: And I feel like we're fed this this idea of scarcity,

1705
01:39:41,040 --> 01:39:45,120
Speaker 1: this idea of like it has to be you know,

1706
01:39:45,400 --> 01:39:48,479
Speaker 1: like these like select few people who get to have

1707
01:39:48,520 --> 01:39:52,040
Speaker 1: the keys to the kingdom and it's just not it's

1708
01:39:52,080 --> 01:39:54,479
Speaker 1: just not true and and like and so any shift

1709
01:39:54,479 --> 01:39:56,720
Speaker 1: away from that that we can have, I think it's

1710
01:39:56,760 --> 01:39:58,920
Speaker 1: a positive thing. I mean, it's unfortunate, but you know,

1711
01:39:58,920 --> 01:40:02,040
Speaker 1: we're talking so much about like Jeff's work, you know,

1712
01:40:02,080 --> 01:40:04,120
Speaker 1: and like seeing his films and things like that, and

1713
01:40:05,000 --> 01:40:07,320
Speaker 1: I feel like, as brilliant as this film is, in

1714
01:40:07,360 --> 01:40:10,920
Speaker 1: so many ways, more people have probably seen Pocahonas, more

1715
01:40:10,920 --> 01:40:13,920
Speaker 1: people have probably seen Dances with Wolves, more people have

1716
01:40:14,000 --> 01:40:16,320
Speaker 1: probably seen Dead Man. You know, these films that like

1717
01:40:16,960 --> 01:40:19,519
Speaker 1: are super dubious and do a lot of damage in

1718
01:40:19,680 --> 01:40:22,720
Speaker 1: terms of like the representation of Indigenous people. And yet

1719
01:40:23,240 --> 01:40:25,799
Speaker 1: when I'm like, oh, hey, you want to talk indigenous cinema,

1720
01:40:25,840 --> 01:40:30,519
Speaker 1: people are sort of like, I don't know what that is,

1721
01:40:31,479 --> 01:40:33,920
Speaker 1: or they might know, they might know Tayka. But that's

1722
01:40:33,960 --> 01:40:38,160
Speaker 1: like it, you know, which is better than nothing. But

1723
01:40:38,280 --> 01:40:41,840
Speaker 1: it's not enough, certainly not enough. Well that I should

1724
01:40:41,880 --> 01:40:46,920
Speaker 1: be more Indigenous filmmakers who are household names period periods.

1725
01:40:47,880 --> 01:40:50,600
Speaker 1: According to and I don't know exactly how accurate this

1726
01:40:50,680 --> 01:40:54,479
Speaker 1: number is, but according to box office Mojo dot com

1727
01:40:54,800 --> 01:41:00,800
Speaker 1: ever heard of it? Uh this I do consult it

1728
01:41:00,840 --> 01:41:03,800
Speaker 1: a lot. Just makes me think of Austin Powers. I know,

1729
01:41:04,280 --> 01:41:08,280
Speaker 1: I'm just like, um, make you become a bombshell and

1730
01:41:08,320 --> 01:41:11,960
Speaker 1: that makes me want to die. Oh gosh. But this

1731
01:41:12,000 --> 01:41:16,759
Speaker 1: movie earned at the box office one thousand, five hundred

1732
01:41:17,000 --> 01:41:21,160
Speaker 1: dollars and like four dollars or something like that, basically

1733
01:41:22,040 --> 01:41:27,520
Speaker 1: dollars um because of its very limited distribution and exhibitions.

1734
01:41:27,640 --> 01:41:30,240
Speaker 1: So yeah, I mean, I think that's why a lot

1735
01:41:30,240 --> 01:41:32,040
Speaker 1: of people haven't seen this movie. A lot of people

1736
01:41:32,040 --> 01:41:35,200
Speaker 1: haven't heard of this movie. Admittedly, we were not familiar

1737
01:41:35,240 --> 01:41:39,120
Speaker 1: with it until quite recently. Um, Jamie and Izo. It's

1738
01:41:39,200 --> 01:41:43,080
Speaker 1: just a matter of there and I don't even know

1739
01:41:43,160 --> 01:41:47,240
Speaker 1: exactly how to fix this of like getting the word

1740
01:41:47,280 --> 01:41:50,000
Speaker 1: out there. I mean, hopefully this episode of this podcast

1741
01:41:50,280 --> 01:41:53,160
Speaker 1: encourages people to watch this movie. It's it's accessible. I

1742
01:41:53,200 --> 01:41:58,120
Speaker 1: watched it on filion Hoopla and like um Canopy, which

1743
01:41:58,240 --> 01:42:00,280
Speaker 1: is free if you have a library car, you can

1744
01:42:00,280 --> 01:42:02,680
Speaker 1: rent it anywhere and rent it if you want to

1745
01:42:02,880 --> 01:42:07,200
Speaker 1: some money back. Yes, yeah, I rented it on YouTube

1746
01:42:07,280 --> 01:42:10,920
Speaker 1: like it was. It's easily accessible, you know, and and

1747
01:42:11,000 --> 01:42:14,519
Speaker 1: increasingly easily accessible. I own a copy of this film

1748
01:42:14,600 --> 01:42:17,240
Speaker 1: because that's the only way that I could like keep

1749
01:42:17,240 --> 01:42:21,680
Speaker 1: watching it after I saw it, you know, in festival. Um,

1750
01:42:21,720 --> 01:42:24,320
Speaker 1: but yeah, people can see this movie. It's it's I mean,

1751
01:42:24,840 --> 01:42:26,640
Speaker 1: so I would say that we have to do this,

1752
01:42:26,720 --> 01:42:31,280
Speaker 1: like we have to go old school on this. So

1753
01:42:31,560 --> 01:42:33,200
Speaker 1: this is the plan that I've come up with in

1754
01:42:33,240 --> 01:42:34,880
Speaker 1: the last like five seconds. And I don't know why

1755
01:42:34,880 --> 01:42:39,599
Speaker 1: it's particularly old school except for um, So, everybody listening

1756
01:42:39,640 --> 01:42:41,920
Speaker 1: to the podcast, you have to watch the movie and

1757
01:42:41,960 --> 01:42:44,120
Speaker 1: you have to tell five friends about the movie, or

1758
01:42:44,240 --> 01:42:48,840
Speaker 1: you'll be haunted by an ancient Indian burial ground. That's

1759
01:42:48,840 --> 01:42:53,880
Speaker 1: how we bring it around, invoke the burial ground. It's

1760
01:42:53,880 --> 01:42:57,880
Speaker 1: a pyramid scheme for good. Yeah, exactly right. Oh my gosh.

1761
01:42:57,920 --> 01:43:01,000
Speaker 1: Remember those emails though, right back in twenty four hours

1762
01:43:01,040 --> 01:43:07,720
Speaker 1: and send it to five friends or else you'll be killed. Yeah.

1763
01:43:07,920 --> 01:43:11,400
Speaker 1: I feel like aunties always send those along that were

1764
01:43:11,560 --> 01:43:14,000
Speaker 1: the number one perpetrator of the year about and it

1765
01:43:14,120 --> 01:43:16,840
Speaker 1: was like, I'm your niece, Why are you sending me

1766
01:43:16,880 --> 01:43:19,600
Speaker 1: this emails? And I'm going to be murderer? Like I

1767
01:43:19,640 --> 01:43:25,320
Speaker 1: don't know twenty five people. I'm seven, like like I'm

1768
01:43:25,360 --> 01:43:28,720
Speaker 1: the test. It's like I think sometimes like it's just

1769
01:43:28,760 --> 01:43:32,759
Speaker 1: like yeah, I sort of miss stuff like that sometimes

1770
01:43:32,760 --> 01:43:35,720
Speaker 1: because it's weird, Like it's sort of like it's paranormal

1771
01:43:35,760 --> 01:43:38,479
Speaker 1: in a weird way, but like yeah, Aunties being like,

1772
01:43:38,600 --> 01:43:40,680
Speaker 1: you gotta pass this one on and like all your

1773
01:43:40,680 --> 01:43:43,680
Speaker 1: wishes will come true. You're like, right, your crush will

1774
01:43:43,720 --> 01:43:46,040
Speaker 1: fall in love with you if you've send this, but

1775
01:43:46,120 --> 01:43:53,439
Speaker 1: if you don't, you'll die. You'll be it's murdered tonight, okay, Annie, Debbie.

1776
01:43:54,080 --> 01:43:56,400
Speaker 1: Isn't that what the Purge is about? Though? Oh? Is?

1777
01:43:56,439 --> 01:43:58,320
Speaker 1: I still have not seen any of the Purge movies.

1778
01:43:58,720 --> 01:44:03,519
Speaker 1: It's that email or a movie, and that's what the

1779
01:44:03,600 --> 01:44:06,960
Speaker 1: movie is. I don't I've never seen the Purse, but

1780
01:44:07,040 --> 01:44:09,280
Speaker 1: like I have a feeling that it's like they didn't

1781
01:44:09,280 --> 01:44:11,800
Speaker 1: respond to the email, and now it's like, well now

1782
01:44:11,840 --> 01:44:15,160
Speaker 1: it's perch time. The email comes to life. I actually

1783
01:44:15,160 --> 01:44:19,160
Speaker 1: would really enjoy watching that movie. Let's write it. Yeah,

1784
01:44:19,400 --> 01:44:25,639
Speaker 1: an evil chain email comes to life and like almost

1785
01:44:25,680 --> 01:44:28,520
Speaker 1: in like a like final destination he kind of way

1786
01:44:29,040 --> 01:44:33,080
Speaker 1: like the Internet's the villain seen and then and then

1787
01:44:33,120 --> 01:44:36,200
Speaker 1: it's like there's all these moments that it's like society

1788
01:44:36,280 --> 01:44:39,400
Speaker 1: and you're like, you also, you could also shoot it

1789
01:44:39,439 --> 01:44:43,960
Speaker 1: the way that like Unfriended or like Searching is shot

1790
01:44:44,000 --> 01:44:46,519
Speaker 1: where it's just like all on a computer screen. Wow,

1791
01:44:46,560 --> 01:44:49,760
Speaker 1: this is a this is a billion dollar idea right here.

1792
01:44:50,479 --> 01:44:54,160
Speaker 1: Perfect and you don't you like you'd spend like to

1793
01:44:54,200 --> 01:44:58,800
Speaker 1: make it? Yeah, it's got to be so cheap. Let's

1794
01:44:58,800 --> 01:45:02,000
Speaker 1: talk about the a litt Oh yes, yes, really quickly.

1795
01:45:02,320 --> 01:45:04,160
Speaker 1: And I wanted to talk to about Ala being a

1796
01:45:04,200 --> 01:45:06,519
Speaker 1: two spirit character, but we can do that after Oh

1797
01:45:06,600 --> 01:45:11,639
Speaker 1: yeah absolutely. Um So the AL Test we obviously talked

1798
01:45:11,800 --> 01:45:16,920
Speaker 1: talked with the creator of the test, but the Alt

1799
01:45:17,000 --> 01:45:20,280
Speaker 1: Test just as a reminder to all of our listeners.

1800
01:45:20,320 --> 01:45:22,439
Speaker 1: We discussed it on the Frizden two episodes, but the

1801
01:45:22,479 --> 01:45:25,679
Speaker 1: Alt Test was inspired by the back Both Test and

1802
01:45:25,840 --> 01:45:29,479
Speaker 1: Ali wrote it and named it after Ala from rhymes

1803
01:45:29,479 --> 01:45:33,439
Speaker 1: for Young Girls. The ALT Test asks three questions about

1804
01:45:33,479 --> 01:45:37,559
Speaker 1: a film's character. Is she an indigenous or Aboriginal woman

1805
01:45:37,560 --> 01:45:40,639
Speaker 1: who was a main character, She cannot fall in love

1806
01:45:40,680 --> 01:45:43,200
Speaker 1: with a white man, and third, does not end up

1807
01:45:43,280 --> 01:45:47,000
Speaker 1: raped or murdered at any point in the story. So

1808
01:45:47,920 --> 01:45:51,400
Speaker 1: obviously this movie passes the ALT Test, or wouldn't be

1809
01:45:51,439 --> 01:45:57,240
Speaker 1: called that. But I wanted to just um for people

1810
01:45:57,280 --> 01:45:59,800
Speaker 1: who are looking for more movies the past the Alt Test.

1811
01:46:00,120 --> 01:46:05,360
Speaker 1: Have a list from the Ala Test tumbler that names

1812
01:46:05,439 --> 01:46:08,519
Speaker 1: off some of um some movies where there are characters

1813
01:46:08,520 --> 01:46:11,800
Speaker 1: that pass this test, so really quick. Obviously Ala from

1814
01:46:11,840 --> 01:46:15,160
Speaker 1: Rhymes for Young Ghouls. Let's see Annie Shorty from Edge

1815
01:46:15,160 --> 01:46:20,559
Speaker 1: of America, Seven from Apocalypto, Cheetah the Fragile from Mad Max,

1816
01:46:20,640 --> 01:46:26,400
Speaker 1: Fury Road, Eva Benitez from Freedom Writers, Wilma man Killer

1817
01:46:26,560 --> 01:46:31,360
Speaker 1: from the Cherokee Word for Water, Moat from Avatar, question Mark,

1818
01:46:32,040 --> 01:46:36,599
Speaker 1: Susie Song from Smoke Signals, um j Shaun Winters from

1819
01:46:36,600 --> 01:46:41,320
Speaker 1: Songs My Brother Taught Me. It's a criminally short list, um,

1820
01:46:41,360 --> 01:46:43,280
Speaker 1: But if you're looking for other movies to pass the

1821
01:46:43,320 --> 01:46:47,679
Speaker 1: a LA test, at least in regards to one character, um,

1822
01:46:47,960 --> 01:46:51,920
Speaker 1: those are some options. Was Molanna on the list? Oh,

1823
01:46:52,000 --> 01:46:55,519
Speaker 1: that's because there's a separate category for animation, because Lelo

1824
01:46:55,640 --> 01:46:58,600
Speaker 1: and Nanni from Lelo and Stitch also pass that. So

1825
01:46:58,720 --> 01:47:03,480
Speaker 1: Moana Lilo, not Nanni. Qatara from Avatar, The Last Airbender,

1826
01:47:03,560 --> 01:47:08,000
Speaker 1: Cora from the Legend of Cora, Alisa Maza from Gargoyles

1827
01:47:08,040 --> 01:47:12,479
Speaker 1: never watched Gargoyles from Brother Bear to UM. Yeah, sorry,

1828
01:47:12,479 --> 01:47:16,640
Speaker 1: there was a separate animation category, but definitely Malana excellent.

1829
01:47:17,040 --> 01:47:20,000
Speaker 1: I was gonna say too if people should definitely all

1830
01:47:20,040 --> 01:47:23,360
Speaker 1: watch those movies and tell five friends to watch those

1831
01:47:23,360 --> 01:47:28,519
Speaker 1: movies or you'll be haunted because this is how we

1832
01:47:28,600 --> 01:47:31,720
Speaker 1: changed the world. Also, looking at um, there's also a

1833
01:47:31,800 --> 01:47:35,120
Speaker 1: lot of characters that that appear in comics. Um. There's

1834
01:47:35,120 --> 01:47:39,120
Speaker 1: a really fabulous mostly indigenous press here in Canada called

1835
01:47:39,560 --> 01:47:41,839
Speaker 1: High Water Comics, and they release a lot of comics

1836
01:47:41,880 --> 01:47:47,719
Speaker 1: that are either featuring Indigenous characters or Indigenous focused and

1837
01:47:48,040 --> 01:47:50,240
Speaker 1: they're all really awesome. That what The one series I

1838
01:47:50,280 --> 01:47:53,680
Speaker 1: really like, it's following this girl named Echo and it's

1839
01:47:53,680 --> 01:47:57,120
Speaker 1: called The Pemmican Wars and it's a series. I think

1840
01:47:57,120 --> 01:48:01,200
Speaker 1: there's maybe about five books in it now, but they're

1841
01:48:01,240 --> 01:48:03,559
Speaker 1: really fantastic and I always recommend them to my students

1842
01:48:03,560 --> 01:48:07,120
Speaker 1: because Echo is like a very similar character to Eila,

1843
01:48:07,520 --> 01:48:09,200
Speaker 1: you know, sort of like a teen girl. She's growing

1844
01:48:09,280 --> 01:48:12,280
Speaker 1: up in an urban setting in Winnipeg, and it's just

1845
01:48:12,439 --> 01:48:15,559
Speaker 1: they're just fantastic. They're very immersive. Um. There's also some

1846
01:48:15,640 --> 01:48:19,760
Speaker 1: video games to that future indigenous characters and storylines that

1847
01:48:19,960 --> 01:48:22,960
Speaker 1: past the Ala test Um. So there is media out there,

1848
01:48:23,000 --> 01:48:26,920
Speaker 1: but you're right, it is like criminally small and and

1849
01:48:26,960 --> 01:48:30,320
Speaker 1: a lot of these are from white directors and creators

1850
01:48:30,360 --> 01:48:34,040
Speaker 1: as well. But in any case, um, if you want

1851
01:48:34,080 --> 01:48:38,160
Speaker 1: to continue following, we love Ali Naddy and you can

1852
01:48:38,240 --> 01:48:41,720
Speaker 1: follow all the updates on media that passes the ALA

1853
01:48:41,760 --> 01:48:44,920
Speaker 1: test because they do also discuss graphic novels and comics

1854
01:48:44,920 --> 01:48:50,000
Speaker 1: and video games and TV and books even all all

1855
01:48:50,040 --> 01:48:52,479
Speaker 1: of which are things we've never heard of in our lives.

1856
01:48:52,600 --> 01:48:58,759
Speaker 1: So books, we not big readers that read like everyone's.

1857
01:48:58,760 --> 01:49:00,040
Speaker 1: In a while, a listener is going to be like,

1858
01:49:00,080 --> 01:49:02,160
Speaker 1: would you read a book, and we were like, we

1859
01:49:02,200 --> 01:49:05,040
Speaker 1: would not read a book. Sometimes I get really self conscious.

1860
01:49:05,040 --> 01:49:07,000
Speaker 1: I'm like, oh no, I bet listeners of the Betel

1861
01:49:07,040 --> 01:49:09,400
Speaker 1: Cast actually think we like never read books, and I

1862
01:49:09,439 --> 01:49:11,920
Speaker 1: do want everyone to know that is not true. We

1863
01:49:12,080 --> 01:49:16,360
Speaker 1: just the anti buck. We don't cover, but we don't

1864
01:49:16,560 --> 01:49:20,920
Speaker 1: have the time to read books. It literally just because

1865
01:49:20,960 --> 01:49:22,760
Speaker 1: of the Lord of the Rings episode where they're like,

1866
01:49:22,840 --> 01:49:25,640
Speaker 1: you know, you didn't read five trillion pages? Were like,

1867
01:49:25,760 --> 01:49:28,759
Speaker 1: I simply didn't. I just I couldn't. I was listening.

1868
01:49:28,760 --> 01:49:31,400
Speaker 1: I'm listening to Nicole Buyer and Lauren lap Kiss is

1869
01:49:31,439 --> 01:49:34,040
Speaker 1: Newcomers right now and they're talking about Lord of the

1870
01:49:34,120 --> 01:49:36,920
Speaker 1: Rings and they're talking about the Hobbit and I read

1871
01:49:37,000 --> 01:49:39,920
Speaker 1: that book, and I still like I read that book,

1872
01:49:39,920 --> 01:49:42,800
Speaker 1: I watched those movies and like listening to Lauren and

1873
01:49:42,880 --> 01:49:45,160
Speaker 1: Nicole talk about I feel like I'm like on the

1874
01:49:45,200 --> 01:49:47,760
Speaker 1: same page as then I'm like, Yeah, who are all

1875
01:49:47,800 --> 01:49:52,840
Speaker 1: these people? Like? What's that guy's name? What's he doing here? Um? Also,

1876
01:49:53,360 --> 01:49:57,959
Speaker 1: just the fact that, like Nicole habitually calls Billboard diplow

1877
01:49:59,320 --> 01:50:02,960
Speaker 1: is very good, very choice. I haven't started listening to

1878
01:50:03,000 --> 01:50:04,760
Speaker 1: The Lord of the Rings office. I listened to all

1879
01:50:04,800 --> 01:50:09,680
Speaker 1: the Star Wars episodes and it's just a great UM.

1880
01:50:09,720 --> 01:50:13,000
Speaker 1: But you can for all media. The ALA tests, like

1881
01:50:13,080 --> 01:50:15,760
Speaker 1: the backbo test, can be applied to any kind of

1882
01:50:15,840 --> 01:50:18,840
Speaker 1: narrative media. UM. And you can find the full list

1883
01:50:18,840 --> 01:50:21,479
Speaker 1: in all the updates that the dash ala dash test

1884
01:50:21,600 --> 01:50:27,280
Speaker 1: dot tumbler dot com, and and follow Ellie on Twitter.

1885
01:50:27,479 --> 01:50:30,720
Speaker 1: She's at Ali naughty n A h d ees how

1886
01:50:30,760 --> 01:50:33,599
Speaker 1: you spell her last name? So listen to the Frozen

1887
01:50:33,600 --> 01:50:36,040
Speaker 1: two episode you know what to do and then tell

1888
01:50:36,120 --> 01:50:40,599
Speaker 1: five people, and then tell five people. Is there anything

1889
01:50:40,640 --> 01:50:46,960
Speaker 1: else anyone wants to talk about regarding I mean, I

1890
01:50:47,000 --> 01:50:51,479
Speaker 1: still have pages and pages of terrible set statistics, but

1891
01:50:51,600 --> 01:50:53,439
Speaker 1: we don't have to get into those. I did want

1892
01:50:53,479 --> 01:50:55,400
Speaker 1: to just add that one of the things that I've

1893
01:50:55,439 --> 01:50:59,840
Speaker 1: come to appreciate about Ala is that I think that,

1894
01:51:00,320 --> 01:51:02,200
Speaker 1: whether it's intentional or not, I think she can be

1895
01:51:02,240 --> 01:51:04,800
Speaker 1: read as a queer character. And a lot of that

1896
01:51:04,840 --> 01:51:09,400
Speaker 1: has to do with some interpretations of two spirit, which

1897
01:51:09,439 --> 01:51:12,120
Speaker 1: is a pen Indigenous term that was adopted in the

1898
01:51:12,200 --> 01:51:15,880
Speaker 1: early nineties to describe l g B t Q plus

1899
01:51:16,840 --> 01:51:21,479
Speaker 1: indigenous folks. One of the interpretations of two spirit is

1900
01:51:21,560 --> 01:51:24,560
Speaker 1: coming out of sort of like an a Jibway perspective,

1901
01:51:24,640 --> 01:51:27,120
Speaker 1: is that like you have male and female energy and

1902
01:51:27,160 --> 01:51:31,840
Speaker 1: they're balanced. Another interpretation of it, coming more sort of

1903
01:51:31,880 --> 01:51:34,240
Speaker 1: from like Eastern Woodlands sort of like more sort of

1904
01:51:34,240 --> 01:51:37,320
Speaker 1: like Nigma and show any traditions, is that you walk

1905
01:51:37,400 --> 01:51:40,280
Speaker 1: between worlds and that's what it means to be too spirit.

1906
01:51:40,840 --> 01:51:42,280
Speaker 1: And so you see that a lot in this film

1907
01:51:42,280 --> 01:51:47,040
Speaker 1: where a less sort of doesn't have like stricted boundaries

1908
01:51:47,040 --> 01:51:49,639
Speaker 1: in terms of like like the visions that she's having

1909
01:51:49,720 --> 01:51:53,160
Speaker 1: of her mom and you know, the dreams that she's having,

1910
01:51:53,280 --> 01:51:56,519
Speaker 1: and also you know she sees Tyler at one point

1911
01:51:56,640 --> 01:52:00,439
Speaker 1: termed brother. You know, she's sort of having these moments

1912
01:52:00,479 --> 01:52:04,519
Speaker 1: where you know, worlds are not. Um. Yeah, she's passing

1913
01:52:04,560 --> 01:52:08,360
Speaker 1: sort of between worlds. She's also shape shifting, which is

1914
01:52:08,400 --> 01:52:12,920
Speaker 1: also a part of some of the conversations around queer

1915
01:52:12,960 --> 01:52:17,559
Speaker 1: identity and from a traditional perspective. Um, so she goes

1916
01:52:17,640 --> 01:52:22,280
Speaker 1: from having long braids to having very short hair. She's

1917
01:52:22,280 --> 01:52:24,960
Speaker 1: wearing costumes. At one point, she has like that which

1918
01:52:25,040 --> 01:52:28,200
Speaker 1: is face like on the back of her head, which

1919
01:52:28,240 --> 01:52:32,480
Speaker 1: is like also a very interesting sort of like duality

1920
01:52:32,640 --> 01:52:37,120
Speaker 1: in a sense. So, as I've grown with this movie,

1921
01:52:37,320 --> 01:52:40,320
Speaker 1: and as I you know, continue to watch it and

1922
01:52:40,360 --> 01:52:42,439
Speaker 1: continue to grow in terms of two like my my

1923
01:52:42,479 --> 01:52:47,040
Speaker 1: own identity as like a queer trans indigenous person, I

1924
01:52:47,160 --> 01:52:50,360
Speaker 1: like understand her better now as also an indigenous character.

1925
01:52:51,360 --> 01:52:55,080
Speaker 1: That's so cool. Yeah, And it's it's like it's interesting,

1926
01:52:55,160 --> 01:52:57,960
Speaker 1: Like it's it's something that like I don't think I'll

1927
01:52:58,040 --> 01:53:02,439
Speaker 1: have to ask Jeff about um, but I don't think

1928
01:53:02,439 --> 01:53:04,839
Speaker 1: it was ever intentional because it's never mentioned in anything.

1929
01:53:05,520 --> 01:53:07,880
Speaker 1: But yeah, it sort of fits really interestingly in that

1930
01:53:07,960 --> 01:53:12,639
Speaker 1: way with a lot of traditional beliefs. I love growing

1931
01:53:12,680 --> 01:53:17,000
Speaker 1: with movies. That's the best. There's so many things that

1932
01:53:17,040 --> 01:53:19,840
Speaker 1: don't hold up anymore, so it's really nice when you

1933
01:53:19,880 --> 01:53:27,880
Speaker 1: can like watch something that's so cherished and you're like, oh, yeah,

1934
01:53:28,479 --> 01:53:34,120
Speaker 1: I could still love you. Something interesting too to think

1935
01:53:34,160 --> 01:53:37,599
Speaker 1: about in the context of this film is the idea

1936
01:53:37,720 --> 01:53:42,280
Speaker 1: of unsettling. Um. So we talked about unsettling in terms

1937
01:53:42,280 --> 01:53:45,080
Speaker 1: of like something that disturbs us, right, but we also

1938
01:53:45,080 --> 01:53:49,320
Speaker 1: talk about unsettling as the process of decolonizing. You know,

1939
01:53:49,720 --> 01:53:53,760
Speaker 1: you're becoming You're not a settler, you're becoming unsettled. And

1940
01:53:53,840 --> 01:53:56,800
Speaker 1: I think that this film is such an interesting and

1941
01:53:56,920 --> 01:53:59,920
Speaker 1: interesting representation of that of sort of like Jeff Barna

1942
01:54:00,040 --> 01:54:03,040
Speaker 1: is leaning into all this very spooky imagery and all

1943
01:54:03,040 --> 01:54:07,040
Speaker 1: this very like you know, very graphic imagery, even um

1944
01:54:07,080 --> 01:54:09,640
Speaker 1: you know, like you really do see Popper get his

1945
01:54:09,640 --> 01:54:11,360
Speaker 1: head blown off, like there's a big check of his

1946
01:54:11,400 --> 01:54:14,240
Speaker 1: head missing. Yeah. So there's this sense of sort of

1947
01:54:14,280 --> 01:54:18,200
Speaker 1: like this desire to disturb and kind of like upset,

1948
01:54:18,560 --> 01:54:22,280
Speaker 1: but also that that's a path to kind of like

1949
01:54:22,920 --> 01:54:26,160
Speaker 1: interrupt and get some movement in what can be of

1950
01:54:26,240 --> 01:54:29,800
Speaker 1: sometimes a very stagnant conversation with regards to Canadian history

1951
01:54:29,960 --> 01:54:33,560
Speaker 1: and indigenous history and in the country. So it's like

1952
01:54:33,600 --> 01:54:35,920
Speaker 1: it's it's interesting that that exists in this film in

1953
01:54:35,920 --> 01:54:38,600
Speaker 1: that way. And there's also a conversation to have around

1954
01:54:38,640 --> 01:54:42,520
Speaker 1: the idea of like revenge or reconciliation. You know, I

1955
01:54:42,560 --> 01:54:45,400
Speaker 1: think that, you know, Indigenous people aren't a monolith. There's

1956
01:54:45,400 --> 01:54:47,720
Speaker 1: always going to be people who, you know, like we

1957
01:54:47,720 --> 01:54:50,560
Speaker 1: were talking about earlier, aren't going to like, you know,

1958
01:54:50,600 --> 01:54:53,520
Speaker 1: the type of films that Jeff Barnaby is making, um,

1959
01:54:53,560 --> 01:54:55,680
Speaker 1: and there's going to be you know, people who do

1960
01:54:55,760 --> 01:54:57,600
Speaker 1: like them that don't like other types of films. And

1961
01:54:57,600 --> 01:54:59,960
Speaker 1: then like there's going to be certain types of discourse

1962
01:55:00,080 --> 01:55:02,520
Speaker 1: that like certain Indigenous people are going to really support,

1963
01:55:02,560 --> 01:55:04,080
Speaker 1: and there's going to be other ones that they don't

1964
01:55:04,080 --> 01:55:07,520
Speaker 1: agree with, you know. But it's very interesting this conversation

1965
01:55:07,520 --> 01:55:11,840
Speaker 1: is sort of about like revenge versus reconciliation because in

1966
01:55:11,920 --> 01:55:14,960
Speaker 1: an interesting way, we can only really decide what we

1967
01:55:15,040 --> 01:55:19,320
Speaker 1: ourselves as individuals are going to do. And because of that, Yeah,

1968
01:55:19,400 --> 01:55:21,480
Speaker 1: there's so many questions that kind of exist out there

1969
01:55:22,240 --> 01:55:26,080
Speaker 1: about like whether that is even like meaningful, you know,

1970
01:55:26,120 --> 01:55:29,520
Speaker 1: if it's just like an individual sort of thing. But

1971
01:55:29,800 --> 01:55:31,960
Speaker 1: I don't know, I'm a big believer in that, like,

1972
01:55:32,840 --> 01:55:35,520
Speaker 1: our individual actions are important. So whether we go to

1973
01:55:35,600 --> 01:55:38,360
Speaker 1: the revenge side of things or the reconciliation side of things.

1974
01:55:39,040 --> 01:55:41,720
Speaker 1: It's just that we make that choice, you know ultimately

1975
01:55:41,760 --> 01:55:45,560
Speaker 1: in the end. Yeah, I think that's kind of kind

1976
01:55:45,560 --> 01:55:48,280
Speaker 1: of all I had to say. Oh, I do have

1977
01:55:48,360 --> 01:55:53,920
Speaker 1: recommendations please, so if people are interested, and I'll talk

1978
01:55:53,960 --> 01:55:56,160
Speaker 1: to you guys more about this off Mike. But if

1979
01:55:56,160 --> 01:56:00,360
Speaker 1: people are interested in learning more about indigenous issue, if

1980
01:56:00,360 --> 01:56:03,720
Speaker 1: like this episode is like catching you totally off guard

1981
01:56:03,840 --> 01:56:07,200
Speaker 1: and you're like, I've never heard of Indians before in

1982
01:56:07,200 --> 01:56:13,480
Speaker 1: my life, Um, well, welcome to I don't know where

1983
01:56:13,480 --> 01:56:17,760
Speaker 1: you've been living, but congratulations, I guess. But I would

1984
01:56:17,800 --> 01:56:21,360
Speaker 1: say that learning about indigenous issues is it as difficult

1985
01:56:21,560 --> 01:56:24,600
Speaker 1: as we might think. So much of our school system,

1986
01:56:24,640 --> 01:56:26,160
Speaker 1: you know, has been set up in a way that

1987
01:56:26,200 --> 01:56:29,920
Speaker 1: maintains wait supremacy. So we have to do a lot

1988
01:56:29,920 --> 01:56:32,280
Speaker 1: of the work ourselves, and that can be intimidating, especially

1989
01:56:32,280 --> 01:56:36,040
Speaker 1: if you don't know where to start. For both you know,

1990
01:56:36,280 --> 01:56:39,440
Speaker 1: Caitlin and you Jamie, like I feel like, you know,

1991
01:56:39,480 --> 01:56:41,840
Speaker 1: the process of learning about residential schools this past week,

1992
01:56:41,840 --> 01:56:44,720
Speaker 1: even though it's important, like history to learn about I

1993
01:56:44,720 --> 01:56:47,080
Speaker 1: imagine it was also very very taxing, because it is

1994
01:56:47,200 --> 01:56:51,600
Speaker 1: very taxing because it should be. It's genocide, you know,

1995
01:56:52,280 --> 01:56:54,680
Speaker 1: it's not a fun thing to learn about. It's not

1996
01:56:54,680 --> 01:56:56,560
Speaker 1: a fun thing to discuss, but it's a necessary thing

1997
01:56:56,560 --> 01:56:59,280
Speaker 1: for us to learn about because we have to stop it.

1998
01:56:59,400 --> 01:57:02,800
Speaker 1: It's active least still happening, and we have to you know,

1999
01:57:03,000 --> 01:57:06,160
Speaker 1: make that decision, that personal decision whether we are are

2000
01:57:06,200 --> 01:57:09,120
Speaker 1: going to be with it or against it in the sense.

2001
01:57:09,600 --> 01:57:12,360
Speaker 1: So with all that in mind, there are a ton

2002
01:57:12,480 --> 01:57:15,000
Speaker 1: of resources out there that exists for folks who are

2003
01:57:15,000 --> 01:57:18,760
Speaker 1: interested in learning that are really easy to access free

2004
01:57:19,000 --> 01:57:23,680
Speaker 1: even you know, um, and I will uh, you know,

2005
01:57:23,680 --> 01:57:26,680
Speaker 1: put together some of those. Um, maybe we can time

2006
01:57:26,720 --> 01:57:28,640
Speaker 1: it so that like we'll put like put a bunch

2007
01:57:28,680 --> 01:57:31,080
Speaker 1: together for like the release of this episode. We can

2008
01:57:31,080 --> 01:57:33,600
Speaker 1: release a resource guide the whole thing for sure, because

2009
01:57:33,600 --> 01:57:35,280
Speaker 1: there's like there's so much stuff out there, even like

2010
01:57:35,400 --> 01:57:38,040
Speaker 1: really little things like there's an app that you can

2011
01:57:38,080 --> 01:57:41,000
Speaker 1: download for free called native Land dot c a um.

2012
01:57:41,360 --> 01:57:45,000
Speaker 1: It's a world map and like you essentially use it

2013
01:57:45,040 --> 01:57:47,000
Speaker 1: like Google Maps, you look at different locations and it

2014
01:57:47,000 --> 01:57:50,160
Speaker 1: tells you whose traditional territory you're living on. And just

2015
01:57:50,200 --> 01:57:52,600
Speaker 1: even like little gestures like that are really really important

2016
01:57:52,640 --> 01:57:56,480
Speaker 1: because there needs to be that recognition, there needs to

2017
01:57:56,520 --> 01:57:58,960
Speaker 1: be that starting point, you know, I think that a

2018
01:57:59,000 --> 01:58:01,040
Speaker 1: lot of us feel very attached to the places that

2019
01:58:01,080 --> 01:58:03,600
Speaker 1: we grew up in different ways, you know, whether we

2020
01:58:03,640 --> 01:58:05,800
Speaker 1: spent physically long periods of time there or whether it's

2021
01:58:05,800 --> 01:58:09,080
Speaker 1: a sentimental sort of attachment, and just being able to

2022
01:58:09,080 --> 01:58:12,440
Speaker 1: recognize that it's like Okay, that's Migma territory, or that's

2023
01:58:12,520 --> 01:58:15,960
Speaker 1: Lenape territory, or that's oh Sage territory, that's you know,

2024
01:58:16,320 --> 01:58:20,160
Speaker 1: Sue territory. Then even just understanding that all of a

2025
01:58:20,240 --> 01:58:23,800
Speaker 1: sudden can be such an opening of a door, because

2026
01:58:23,840 --> 01:58:27,120
Speaker 1: then it's like, oh, when you hear about like protests

2027
01:58:27,120 --> 01:58:30,640
Speaker 1: happening at Standing Rock, it's not like, oh, those are nameless,

2028
01:58:30,640 --> 01:58:35,760
Speaker 1: faceless like indigenous people protesting. We're not sure what it's like, Oh,

2029
01:58:35,800 --> 01:58:40,120
Speaker 1: I get it. Those are like the Coda and Lakoda suit.

2030
01:58:41,160 --> 01:58:43,160
Speaker 1: You know, I grew up on Sue Territory. Like, all

2031
01:58:43,160 --> 01:58:45,280
Speaker 1: of a sudden, you have a much more personal tie

2032
01:58:45,320 --> 01:58:48,360
Speaker 1: to that. There's also tons and tons and tons of

2033
01:58:48,360 --> 01:58:52,040
Speaker 1: Indigenous activists at there, people like Pan Palmetter who are

2034
01:58:52,040 --> 01:58:54,000
Speaker 1: doing great work and all their stuff is like on

2035
01:58:54,040 --> 01:58:57,480
Speaker 1: YouTube and they're acting on social media. So there's like,

2036
01:58:58,120 --> 01:59:01,320
Speaker 1: so there is hope, there's you can learn about these things.

2037
01:59:01,880 --> 01:59:05,920
Speaker 1: It might be uncomfortable, as any kind of unlearning, unsettling

2038
01:59:05,960 --> 01:59:08,760
Speaker 1: process is, but I would really encourage people to do

2039
01:59:08,800 --> 01:59:11,760
Speaker 1: that work because you know, we've seen with this past year,

2040
01:59:12,400 --> 01:59:16,000
Speaker 1: we cannot continue to live as black, Indigenous and people

2041
01:59:16,000 --> 01:59:20,200
Speaker 1: of color like we carry this tremendous weight all the

2042
01:59:20,280 --> 01:59:24,200
Speaker 1: time of this violence of this system. You know, even

2043
01:59:24,320 --> 01:59:29,160
Speaker 1: though I'm not currently in Nova Scotia, I I am

2044
01:59:29,200 --> 01:59:31,920
Speaker 1: connected to the MGMA Nova Scotia right now who are

2045
01:59:31,920 --> 01:59:35,280
Speaker 1: fighting for their treaty rights. You know, I am as

2046
01:59:35,320 --> 01:59:37,920
Speaker 1: an Indigenous person, I am connected to the struggles of

2047
01:59:37,960 --> 01:59:40,280
Speaker 1: other Indigenous people. I'm connected the struggles of black people

2048
01:59:40,280 --> 01:59:43,200
Speaker 1: because it's it's all part of the same system, you know,

2049
01:59:43,920 --> 01:59:45,360
Speaker 1: And that's why you care, and that's why you have

2050
01:59:45,440 --> 01:59:47,720
Speaker 1: to be mobilized, and that's why you have to educate yourself,

2051
01:59:47,720 --> 01:59:50,680
Speaker 1: and that's why you have to speak out and and

2052
01:59:50,720 --> 01:59:54,200
Speaker 1: try and do better. You know. My grandmother, who was

2053
01:59:54,280 --> 01:59:56,840
Speaker 1: migmon Is like was like my anchor for my maigman

2054
01:59:56,920 --> 01:59:58,600
Speaker 1: As for a really long time, passed away a couple

2055
01:59:58,640 --> 02:00:03,400
Speaker 1: of years ago, and her dying words were I love

2056
02:00:03,440 --> 02:00:08,280
Speaker 1: you all. And love is such an important value within

2057
02:00:08,520 --> 02:00:10,760
Speaker 1: Magma culture that like I love you all is not

2058
02:00:10,840 --> 02:00:13,760
Speaker 1: just talking about I love you all as in like

2059
02:00:13,800 --> 02:00:16,120
Speaker 1: the people who are physically in the room there, but

2060
02:00:16,240 --> 02:00:18,640
Speaker 1: like love is something that influences all of our actions.

2061
02:00:19,880 --> 02:00:23,720
Speaker 1: You know, we have a a lot of intention and

2062
02:00:23,800 --> 02:00:26,800
Speaker 1: a lot of thought that goes towards like how we

2063
02:00:26,880 --> 02:00:28,800
Speaker 1: are in the world in terms of like how we

2064
02:00:28,840 --> 02:00:33,520
Speaker 1: relate to everything, you know, And so yeah, like starting

2065
02:00:33,520 --> 02:00:37,560
Speaker 1: to educate yourself is like starting to take responsibility is

2066
02:00:37,640 --> 02:00:44,120
Speaker 1: like part of that interconnectedness. Yes, that's like a big taint. No, No,

2067
02:00:44,760 --> 02:00:47,360
Speaker 1: I think as as a lot of us, who are

2068
02:00:48,320 --> 02:00:51,520
Speaker 1: you know, on a pretty steep learning curve honestly, because

2069
02:00:51,520 --> 02:00:54,160
Speaker 1: they're I mean, like we were saying, there's just so

2070
02:00:54,280 --> 02:00:57,120
Speaker 1: much of this. I mean, this is just things I

2071
02:00:57,160 --> 02:00:59,280
Speaker 1: didn't learn in school. I feel like you hit the

2072
02:00:59,320 --> 02:01:02,680
Speaker 1: same three pool points in at least American public schools.

2073
02:01:03,400 --> 02:01:06,240
Speaker 1: And that's kind of it. And it's like the information

2074
02:01:06,560 --> 02:01:11,760
Speaker 1: is accessible, it's just making the commitment to do it

2075
02:01:11,840 --> 02:01:15,680
Speaker 1: like it that is all it is. Yeah, And and

2076
02:01:16,240 --> 02:01:18,800
Speaker 1: I was going to say, there's this, um, this fantastic

2077
02:01:18,840 --> 02:01:21,200
Speaker 1: film that I just got to see it at the

2078
02:01:21,200 --> 02:01:24,920
Speaker 1: Toronto International Film Festival. But we'll hopefully get wide release

2079
02:01:25,400 --> 02:01:28,040
Speaker 1: soon and everybody can check it out. It's a documentary

2080
02:01:28,240 --> 02:01:32,440
Speaker 1: based on Thomas King's book The Inconvenient Indian, which everybody

2081
02:01:32,440 --> 02:01:35,320
Speaker 1: should read. But um, there's this fabulous line in the

2082
02:01:35,320 --> 02:01:39,600
Speaker 1: film at the end that is I think sort of

2083
02:01:39,720 --> 02:01:42,560
Speaker 1: very emblematic, kind of about this whole conversation, you know.

2084
02:01:42,680 --> 02:01:47,960
Speaker 1: And it's essentially, once you know this story, you can't

2085
02:01:48,000 --> 02:01:50,920
Speaker 1: unknow it. You just have to live with the fact

2086
02:01:50,920 --> 02:01:53,080
Speaker 1: that you know it. Now. So now that you know

2087
02:01:53,400 --> 02:01:57,040
Speaker 1: about residential schools, you can't say, oh, well, I didn't know,

2088
02:01:57,400 --> 02:01:59,880
Speaker 1: you know, and and therefore it was allowed to go on.

2089
02:02:00,320 --> 02:02:02,720
Speaker 1: There are still residential schools open in the United States.

2090
02:02:02,720 --> 02:02:04,920
Speaker 1: By the way. I don't know if you guys found

2091
02:02:04,960 --> 02:02:10,080
Speaker 1: that in your research, but I did. Yeah. So yeah,

2092
02:02:10,360 --> 02:02:12,440
Speaker 1: so it's like, well, now that you know, you know,

2093
02:02:12,640 --> 02:02:15,480
Speaker 1: and go forward with that, and you can do it.

2094
02:02:15,680 --> 02:02:20,520
Speaker 1: I believe in you. Thanks Jazz. Um. I didn't write

2095
02:02:20,520 --> 02:02:24,400
Speaker 1: this quote down, um from a YouTube video. I love

2096
02:02:24,440 --> 02:02:28,200
Speaker 1: watching YouTube. I love going to box Office, Mojo dot com,

2097
02:02:28,320 --> 02:02:36,560
Speaker 1: Um Classic Kitlin. Yeah. Um. Senator Murray Sinclair said, and

2098
02:02:36,600 --> 02:02:39,120
Speaker 1: again I'm going to paraphrase this, but he was talking

2099
02:02:39,160 --> 02:02:42,720
Speaker 1: about how people have said to him regarding oppression in

2100
02:02:42,920 --> 02:02:45,800
Speaker 1: the residential school system, saying like, you know what that

2101
02:02:45,840 --> 02:02:47,720
Speaker 1: was in the past, why can't you just forget it?

2102
02:02:47,920 --> 02:02:51,320
Speaker 1: And his response is always why can't you remember? No,

2103
02:02:51,480 --> 02:02:53,200
Speaker 1: And that's just it. And like I said, you know

2104
02:02:53,440 --> 02:02:56,920
Speaker 1: um earlier in our conversation, like these things are still

2105
02:02:56,920 --> 02:02:59,560
Speaker 1: impacting us today. I still have friends who, you know,

2106
02:02:59,600 --> 02:03:02,400
Speaker 1: grew up in the foster care system. I still have

2107
02:03:02,440 --> 02:03:05,240
Speaker 1: friends whose parents were in residential school I. You know,

2108
02:03:05,320 --> 02:03:09,320
Speaker 1: this is an ancient history and that's the most fundamental

2109
02:03:09,400 --> 02:03:12,840
Speaker 1: thing is that, you know, so often we portray Indigenous

2110
02:03:12,840 --> 02:03:15,520
Speaker 1: people as being relics and being like of the past.

2111
02:03:15,640 --> 02:03:17,440
Speaker 1: And even when I was growing up, I was like,

2112
02:03:18,200 --> 02:03:20,520
Speaker 1: I feel like the most like contact I had with

2113
02:03:20,560 --> 02:03:23,280
Speaker 1: Indigenous culture was like a racist diorama at like a

2114
02:03:23,360 --> 02:03:28,200
Speaker 1: history museum, you know, And we have to remind ourselves

2115
02:03:28,240 --> 02:03:33,480
Speaker 1: that like, Indigenous people still exist and colonialism still exists,

2116
02:03:34,520 --> 02:03:37,920
Speaker 1: and ignoring it is what we have been doing and

2117
02:03:38,000 --> 02:03:41,360
Speaker 1: that has not been effective. So yeah, so it it

2118
02:03:41,520 --> 02:03:45,080
Speaker 1: is like it is something that like I think people

2119
02:03:45,640 --> 02:03:49,360
Speaker 1: especially here in Canada, are very are starting to become

2120
02:03:49,400 --> 02:03:52,760
Speaker 1: a lot more aware of. But it's it feels sometimes

2121
02:03:52,760 --> 02:03:55,720
Speaker 1: like such a slow process. You know that, like I

2122
02:03:55,760 --> 02:03:58,960
Speaker 1: wish everybody could get a copy of Tom King's Inconvenient

2123
02:03:59,000 --> 02:04:02,000
Speaker 1: Indian and a cop you of like uh rhymes for

2124
02:04:02,080 --> 02:04:05,760
Speaker 1: young ghouls and it's like this is your homework, like citizen,

2125
02:04:06,080 --> 02:04:07,480
Speaker 1: you know, like this is what you have to do

2126
02:04:07,520 --> 02:04:11,240
Speaker 1: this weekend. Well to speak to that, and what our

2127
02:04:11,280 --> 02:04:14,000
Speaker 1: podcast is about is that, like you know, there's so

2128
02:04:14,080 --> 02:04:19,200
Speaker 1: much erasure of Indigenous people in media. There's so much

2129
02:04:19,280 --> 02:04:24,839
Speaker 1: just ignoring the existence of them. That because mass media

2130
02:04:25,040 --> 02:04:28,360
Speaker 1: is how so many people, especially today, learn things, and

2131
02:04:28,720 --> 02:04:31,760
Speaker 1: people learn things by going to the movies and seeing

2132
02:04:31,760 --> 02:04:35,120
Speaker 1: a movie about a thing. That again just speaks to

2133
02:04:35,720 --> 02:04:40,520
Speaker 1: why it's so important for their needing to be space

2134
02:04:40,880 --> 02:04:44,720
Speaker 1: made for indigenous filmmakers to tell their stories and for

2135
02:04:44,840 --> 02:04:50,240
Speaker 1: those films money invested in as well. It's important that

2136
02:04:50,280 --> 02:04:53,160
Speaker 1: we eat as individuals that we are going to seek

2137
02:04:53,280 --> 02:04:56,240
Speaker 1: this out, but the fact that you have to seek

2138
02:04:56,240 --> 02:04:58,920
Speaker 1: it out speaks to there not being enough money behind

2139
02:04:58,960 --> 02:05:01,760
Speaker 1: it either because it's I don't need to seek out,

2140
02:05:02,480 --> 02:05:05,560
Speaker 1: you know, like she I don't even want to see,

2141
02:05:05,720 --> 02:05:09,360
Speaker 1: like I didn't. You know, there's constantly money thrown in

2142
02:05:09,400 --> 02:05:12,280
Speaker 1: our faces of things we have no interest in where

2143
02:05:13,120 --> 02:05:15,800
Speaker 1: you know, to find rhymes for uncles. You have to

2144
02:05:15,880 --> 02:05:19,120
Speaker 1: look for it, um, and you have to you know,

2145
02:05:19,600 --> 02:05:21,480
Speaker 1: it has to be a word of mouth situation and

2146
02:05:22,080 --> 02:05:27,000
Speaker 1: there needs to be yeah, an increased investment. Uh, and

2147
02:05:27,000 --> 02:05:31,720
Speaker 1: and not just like these it needs to be so mad. Yeah, no,

2148
02:05:31,840 --> 02:05:36,080
Speaker 1: it's it's really true. Um. Is there anything left to discuss?

2149
02:05:36,640 --> 02:05:40,720
Speaker 1: Are we at the test portion of the show? Well,

2150
02:05:40,880 --> 02:05:45,840
Speaker 1: we know it certainly passes the ala test because it's

2151
02:05:45,840 --> 02:05:52,760
Speaker 1: ala um. Although ala Uh is almost raped at the

2152
02:05:52,880 --> 02:05:56,800
Speaker 1: very end of the movie, and I guess I had

2153
02:05:56,840 --> 02:05:59,480
Speaker 1: this in my note where you get I mean, she's

2154
02:05:59,560 --> 02:06:04,320
Speaker 1: technically rescued in that moment, but it doesn't bother me.

2155
02:06:04,600 --> 02:06:08,160
Speaker 1: We know her so well, we have seen her overcome

2156
02:06:08,400 --> 02:06:13,200
Speaker 1: and plant. I mean, I was totally fine with it, um,

2157
02:06:13,280 --> 02:06:15,320
Speaker 1: but that didn't even occur to me as a rescue

2158
02:06:15,360 --> 02:06:19,960
Speaker 1: almost like I was. It didn't just the I think, technically,

2159
02:06:20,000 --> 02:06:24,960
Speaker 1: but it's so badass, it's so cool and I don't know, um,

2160
02:06:25,000 --> 02:06:27,160
Speaker 1: So we know it passes the alt test for sure.

2161
02:06:27,280 --> 02:06:28,680
Speaker 1: I was going to say in terms of like that

2162
02:06:28,680 --> 02:06:30,120
Speaker 1: that rescue see at the end, because I had the

2163
02:06:30,120 --> 02:06:32,640
Speaker 1: same thought, and I think that the reason that it's

2164
02:06:32,720 --> 02:06:35,840
Speaker 1: JUGI each that shoots Popper is because he is like

2165
02:06:35,880 --> 02:06:38,080
Speaker 1: an actually like a student at the school, and we've

2166
02:06:38,120 --> 02:06:41,320
Speaker 1: seen like Popper talking in like the boy's dormitory about

2167
02:06:41,360 --> 02:06:43,640
Speaker 1: like you know, you do this and you'll get beat,

2168
02:06:43,680 --> 02:06:45,000
Speaker 1: and you do this and you'll get beat. So I

2169
02:06:45,080 --> 02:06:46,720
Speaker 1: think that it had to be JUGI each in a way,

2170
02:06:46,760 --> 02:06:49,680
Speaker 1: like pulling the trigger at the end as like a

2171
02:06:49,720 --> 02:06:52,760
Speaker 1: symbolic thing like and so I don't necessarily see it

2172
02:06:52,760 --> 02:06:54,800
Speaker 1: as a rescue either. I think you're both right on that,

2173
02:06:55,120 --> 02:06:58,120
Speaker 1: and it can and that kind of completes his small

2174
02:06:58,200 --> 02:07:02,520
Speaker 1: but significant arc in the story too. I love he's

2175
02:07:02,600 --> 02:07:04,760
Speaker 1: just staying. I gotta find out what that kid's doing.

2176
02:07:05,320 --> 02:07:06,880
Speaker 1: I know, what does he up to? Does he have

2177
02:07:06,920 --> 02:07:10,200
Speaker 1: his own franchise yet? What's going on with them? And

2178
02:07:10,240 --> 02:07:14,040
Speaker 1: then he gets the closing line. Anything he does passes

2179
02:07:14,160 --> 02:07:18,640
Speaker 1: the Bechtel test before um. But does I believe that,

2180
02:07:18,720 --> 02:07:22,160
Speaker 1: Kaitlin I I had this movie passing the Picktel test. Yes.

2181
02:07:22,720 --> 02:07:27,240
Speaker 1: Between um. There's a scene at the end where Ailea

2182
02:07:27,440 --> 02:07:31,520
Speaker 1: and her she's watching sort of like her own flashback

2183
02:07:32,040 --> 02:07:35,000
Speaker 1: from Afar. Towards the end of the movie where she

2184
02:07:35,200 --> 02:07:39,920
Speaker 1: and her mom on are painting something by firelight and

2185
02:07:39,920 --> 02:07:42,320
Speaker 1: they're kind of discussing what they're painting and why and

2186
02:07:42,880 --> 02:07:49,160
Speaker 1: just right. And then it also passes between Aila in

2187
02:07:49,640 --> 02:07:53,840
Speaker 1: um series, I think when she relates the story about

2188
02:07:53,880 --> 02:07:58,040
Speaker 1: the wolf. Yeah, in that whole conversation. So yeah, definitely

2189
02:07:58,080 --> 02:08:03,080
Speaker 1: Bechtel tests passing. Yeah, it uh, And like that's another

2190
02:08:03,120 --> 02:08:06,040
Speaker 1: reason that, like, I was so excited to talk about

2191
02:08:06,040 --> 02:08:07,840
Speaker 1: this film because I was, like, I know that it

2192
02:08:07,880 --> 02:08:10,120
Speaker 1: passes the Bechdel test because I was watching it with

2193
02:08:10,160 --> 02:08:16,680
Speaker 1: that intention, you know, seven years ago. So that's that's awesome. Um.

2194
02:08:17,080 --> 02:08:19,040
Speaker 1: And then that's uh, that brings us to our nipple

2195
02:08:19,080 --> 02:08:23,040
Speaker 1: scales zero to five nipples based on examining the movie

2196
02:08:23,240 --> 02:08:29,200
Speaker 1: from an intersectional feminist lens, and m it's gonna I

2197
02:08:29,200 --> 02:08:33,320
Speaker 1: mean it's very high. I mean I feel like it

2198
02:08:33,360 --> 02:08:37,280
Speaker 1: could be a five nipple situation. Yeah, I think so,

2199
02:08:39,960 --> 02:08:42,040
Speaker 1: and I'm interested to hear what. I feel like I'm

2200
02:08:42,040 --> 02:08:44,320
Speaker 1: tralling you guys in the video and nobody can see it.

2201
02:08:46,120 --> 02:08:48,720
Speaker 1: I mean, it's five nipples for me. But I also

2202
02:08:48,760 --> 02:08:51,960
Speaker 1: feel like I'm a little bit biased, because I mean,

2203
02:08:52,360 --> 02:08:54,800
Speaker 1: I just this film has meant so much throughout the years,

2204
02:08:54,960 --> 02:08:56,960
Speaker 1: and I love it so much, and just you know,

2205
02:08:57,240 --> 02:09:03,760
Speaker 1: have a badass Migma female Harold in yeah, like yeah, yeah,

2206
02:09:03,760 --> 02:09:07,920
Speaker 1: I don't really have any like notes for there's nothing

2207
02:09:08,000 --> 02:09:11,280
Speaker 1: that like rubbed me wrong or and show me a

2208
02:09:11,400 --> 02:09:17,560
Speaker 1: more motivated female protagonist with more autonomy's running the show

2209
02:09:19,120 --> 02:09:22,320
Speaker 1: and with higher stakes. I mean this that it's wonderful

2210
02:09:22,360 --> 02:09:27,120
Speaker 1: and and again that that phrase narrative sovereignty UM and

2211
02:09:27,280 --> 02:09:32,440
Speaker 1: having this be an indigenous filmmaker writing, directing, editing this

2212
02:09:32,560 --> 02:09:37,880
Speaker 1: amazing character. Who Yeah, I have no notes. I think

2213
02:09:38,040 --> 02:09:40,200
Speaker 1: the more we talk about it, I do feel like

2214
02:09:40,280 --> 02:09:44,320
Speaker 1: it is very squarely a coming of age film of sorts,

2215
02:09:44,440 --> 02:09:48,000
Speaker 1: just not the tone we're used to um in that genre.

2216
02:09:48,080 --> 02:09:51,520
Speaker 1: But it's it's such like you said, just it's such

2217
02:09:51,520 --> 02:09:58,000
Speaker 1: a singular movie, and we are seeing a community that

2218
02:09:58,160 --> 02:10:01,960
Speaker 1: is almost never represented in movies. And on top of that,

2219
02:10:02,000 --> 02:10:05,800
Speaker 1: we're seeing Aila who is not just dealing with systemic

2220
02:10:05,840 --> 02:10:09,440
Speaker 1: oppression and as it pertains to being indigenous, she's also

2221
02:10:09,720 --> 02:10:13,720
Speaker 1: experiencing sexism within her own community and navigating that and

2222
02:10:14,720 --> 02:10:18,800
Speaker 1: just navigating all this stuff. And she, you know, is

2223
02:10:18,840 --> 02:10:22,320
Speaker 1: not a Mary step character. She makes mistakes. She just

2224
02:10:22,960 --> 02:10:27,400
Speaker 1: I just yeah, I feel it's it's five nips for me.

2225
02:10:28,680 --> 02:10:31,560
Speaker 1: The plan where they're like, you know what, We're gonna

2226
02:10:31,600 --> 02:10:35,680
Speaker 1: make ship shower down upon this guy and then steal

2227
02:10:35,840 --> 02:10:38,760
Speaker 1: try to steal the money. Like their plan wasn't maybe

2228
02:10:38,880 --> 02:10:45,240
Speaker 1: like Danny Ocean could never never, he could never. Like

2229
02:10:45,480 --> 02:10:48,520
Speaker 1: it's great, and the catharsis of it is great, but

2230
02:10:48,520 --> 02:10:51,800
Speaker 1: I'm just like, like like he's right there, he knows that

2231
02:10:51,880 --> 02:10:55,320
Speaker 1: you're there. Maybe like steal the money first and then

2232
02:10:55,600 --> 02:10:59,240
Speaker 1: like you know, just like like teen it's like teenagers.

2233
02:10:59,760 --> 02:11:01,760
Speaker 1: Of course they're going to come up with a bit

2234
02:11:01,800 --> 02:11:05,360
Speaker 1: of a hair brained plan and it works. So yeah,

2235
02:11:05,720 --> 02:11:08,320
Speaker 1: and it's so rewarding too, because the ship Like at

2236
02:11:08,320 --> 02:11:10,440
Speaker 1: one point when they're putting the ship like in the van,

2237
02:11:10,680 --> 02:11:13,160
Speaker 1: like getting ready to go to the school, they're like, yeah,

2238
02:11:13,200 --> 02:11:16,600
Speaker 1: everybody contributed, and I can just like I can just

2239
02:11:16,720 --> 02:11:20,640
Speaker 1: picture like everybody everybody just been like, oh, oh you

2240
02:11:20,680 --> 02:11:25,720
Speaker 1: need some ship you need like yeah, And it's just

2241
02:11:25,800 --> 02:11:27,960
Speaker 1: like the fact that it's like a community effort to

2242
02:11:28,040 --> 02:11:31,560
Speaker 1: like shoot on this opie. The crowd starts the ship.

2243
02:11:32,000 --> 02:11:36,160
Speaker 1: It's and that's sequence we didn't talk about it too much,

2244
02:11:36,200 --> 02:11:38,960
Speaker 1: but that sequence is it's just like another way this

2245
02:11:39,000 --> 02:11:42,920
Speaker 1: movie is so cool where there's I mean understandably. So

2246
02:11:42,960 --> 02:11:47,400
Speaker 1: there's so many very very emotionally heavy scenes and the

2247
02:11:47,520 --> 02:11:50,600
Speaker 1: plotlines in this movie, and then for this, I mean,

2248
02:11:50,680 --> 02:11:53,920
Speaker 1: it fits very well inside of what the movie is,

2249
02:11:54,040 --> 02:11:57,080
Speaker 1: but it's also this moment of like you're in Oceans

2250
02:11:57,120 --> 02:12:00,320
Speaker 1: eleven for a second, but if it fits very clearly

2251
02:12:00,360 --> 02:12:03,760
Speaker 1: inside this world, and it's like fun and they win

2252
02:12:04,160 --> 02:12:09,320
Speaker 1: and it's exciting, and it's just that sequence is so cool.

2253
02:12:10,760 --> 02:12:12,400
Speaker 1: I mean and even just like we talked about the

2254
02:12:12,440 --> 02:12:15,640
Speaker 1: little bit of criticism or like some pushback that Jeff

2255
02:12:15,640 --> 02:12:18,440
Speaker 1: Barnaby received, like from his own community, like are you

2256
02:12:18,480 --> 02:12:22,000
Speaker 1: really going to like show these stereotypes, which again, like

2257
02:12:22,040 --> 02:12:25,520
Speaker 1: I don't. I this is an exploration of what like

2258
02:12:26,000 --> 02:12:29,640
Speaker 1: systemic racism and oppression does to an Indigenous community, does

2259
02:12:29,720 --> 02:12:33,240
Speaker 1: to families, and does two individuals, and like that's this

2260
02:12:33,320 --> 02:12:37,520
Speaker 1: is just an authentic story about this young woman, this

2261
02:12:37,600 --> 02:12:43,520
Speaker 1: teenage girl, and it's just an incredibly crafted and told story.

2262
02:12:44,160 --> 02:12:48,080
Speaker 1: What more could ask like it? I'm so glad you're like,

2263
02:12:48,200 --> 02:12:50,400
Speaker 1: because I think there's also like this nervousness on my

2264
02:12:50,480 --> 02:12:53,560
Speaker 1: part of like I'm like, oh no, what if they

2265
02:12:53,600 --> 02:12:57,640
Speaker 1: don't like it, I'm gonna have to sit on this

2266
02:12:57,760 --> 02:13:01,240
Speaker 1: call and like explain like why it's a brilliant film.

2267
02:13:01,240 --> 02:13:03,640
Speaker 1: But I'm so glad you guys liked it, and and

2268
02:13:03,640 --> 02:13:06,120
Speaker 1: and yeah, and thank you so much for this opportunity

2269
02:13:06,360 --> 02:13:09,000
Speaker 1: and for holding this space for indigenous film and for

2270
02:13:09,080 --> 02:13:13,360
Speaker 1: me and for Ala and yeah, thank you so much.

2271
02:13:13,640 --> 02:13:19,360
Speaker 1: Thank you for being here and providing all your insights,

2272
02:13:19,680 --> 02:13:24,040
Speaker 1: information everything. Thank you so much, extremely grateful and just

2273
02:13:24,080 --> 02:13:27,520
Speaker 1: like stoked that you're on the show. Thank you, And

2274
02:13:27,560 --> 02:13:30,400
Speaker 1: do come back for Blood Quantum or any movie that

2275
02:13:30,440 --> 02:13:34,840
Speaker 1: you want any time, anytime. Um, I will come back

2276
02:13:34,880 --> 02:13:37,320
Speaker 1: to read for Jacob Black. I will go back to

2277
02:13:37,320 --> 02:13:39,960
Speaker 1: talk about native stuff. I'll come back to talk about

2278
02:13:39,960 --> 02:13:42,040
Speaker 1: non native stuff. I can talk about trands stuff too.

2279
02:13:42,080 --> 02:13:46,000
Speaker 1: I can talk about horror genre stuff. I love it all.

2280
02:13:46,200 --> 02:13:49,000
Speaker 1: So I can talk about films made on the East

2281
02:13:49,000 --> 02:13:53,720
Speaker 1: Coast of Canada that are exclusively about fishing and or cancer. Okay,

2282
02:13:54,080 --> 02:13:57,920
Speaker 1: I can talk about all of it. Um. Finally, we've

2283
02:13:58,000 --> 02:14:01,880
Speaker 1: our listeners have been like, both, what about movies in

2284
02:14:01,920 --> 02:14:03,880
Speaker 1: the East Coast of Canada that are about fishing or

2285
02:14:04,000 --> 02:14:07,720
Speaker 1: maybe cancer? It's I say that as a joke, but

2286
02:14:07,760 --> 02:14:09,840
Speaker 1: I was a programmer for the Atlantic Film Festival for

2287
02:14:09,880 --> 02:14:12,080
Speaker 1: a couple of years and that is a genre all

2288
02:14:12,160 --> 02:14:15,200
Speaker 1: into itself and in like the Atlantic region, you know,

2289
02:14:15,720 --> 02:14:21,240
Speaker 1: is so cool. I love it well, Jess, thank you

2290
02:14:21,280 --> 02:14:23,720
Speaker 1: again so much for being here. Yes, this is so fun.

2291
02:14:23,840 --> 02:14:26,960
Speaker 1: Where can people follow you online? Check out your stuff?

2292
02:14:26,960 --> 02:14:29,680
Speaker 1: Anything else you want to plug people can? People should

2293
02:14:29,760 --> 02:14:35,480
Speaker 1: follow me on Instagram at underscore rad Underscore Babe, underscore

2294
02:14:36,360 --> 02:14:40,120
Speaker 1: um where you just search Jeff Merwin. Um. That's sort

2295
02:14:40,160 --> 02:14:43,040
Speaker 1: of the aggregate of like everything gets put. I don't

2296
02:14:43,080 --> 02:14:46,120
Speaker 1: have Twitter anymore because people were too mean, and so

2297
02:14:46,600 --> 02:14:49,520
Speaker 1: that's just that's really the only social media I do.

2298
02:14:49,560 --> 02:14:51,920
Speaker 1: You know, good people should just check it out there.

2299
02:14:52,440 --> 02:14:54,760
Speaker 1: I have a website Jeff Merwin dot com. But really

2300
02:14:54,800 --> 02:14:57,480
Speaker 1: just check out my Instagram. I post everything on there anyway.

2301
02:14:57,480 --> 02:15:01,120
Speaker 1: Cool so you get to see my cat, yes, cremlin

2302
02:15:01,360 --> 02:15:05,720
Speaker 1: and icon. So your Instagram account passes the Caitlin test.

2303
02:15:06,400 --> 02:15:08,440
Speaker 1: And that's really the goal at the end of the day,

2304
02:15:08,480 --> 02:15:12,720
Speaker 1: you know, Yeah, we're all trying to really do. I

2305
02:15:12,720 --> 02:15:20,040
Speaker 1: feel like that's it's about it, you know, can anymore?

2306
02:15:20,080 --> 02:15:22,440
Speaker 1: I think I'm more I follow more cat accounts than

2307
02:15:23,160 --> 02:15:25,760
Speaker 1: human accounts. I was like, Caitlin, I feel like your

2308
02:15:25,840 --> 02:15:29,520
Speaker 1: your account pat well, you've plused cats. Whenever your cat sitting. Yes,

2309
02:15:29,760 --> 02:15:32,800
Speaker 1: I have. All my Instagram stories are always about cats.

2310
02:15:33,160 --> 02:15:36,240
Speaker 1: So my cat is having a really complicated day today.

2311
02:15:36,320 --> 02:15:39,440
Speaker 1: I was like, just trying to figure him out. He

2312
02:15:39,520 --> 02:15:42,400
Speaker 1: really want I think he wants another cat friend. I

2313
02:15:42,440 --> 02:15:45,120
Speaker 1: think because there's neighborhood we there's a lot of alley

2314
02:15:45,120 --> 02:15:47,960
Speaker 1: cats in our neighborhood, and my my neighbor like feeds them.

2315
02:15:48,000 --> 02:15:51,120
Speaker 1: It's like a whole ecosystem. But we will just sit

2316
02:15:51,160 --> 02:15:53,280
Speaker 1: at the door in the mornings and just me out

2317
02:15:53,440 --> 02:15:56,400
Speaker 1: until a cat comes to talk to him. And I

2318
02:15:56,480 --> 02:15:58,960
Speaker 1: was like, he loves other cats, he wants a cat.

2319
02:15:59,080 --> 02:16:04,480
Speaker 1: Shame get an other cats. Sunny Sunny ignores him and

2320
02:16:04,600 --> 02:16:06,720
Speaker 1: he's always trying to play with him, and Sonny's like

2321
02:16:08,200 --> 02:16:10,920
Speaker 1: the whole thing. I think you should definitely get into

2322
02:16:10,960 --> 02:16:13,080
Speaker 1: the cat. I've been thinking the same thing too though,

2323
02:16:13,080 --> 02:16:17,000
Speaker 1: because I travel a lot for work and so Kremlin

2324
02:16:17,200 --> 02:16:20,000
Speaker 1: Kremlin stays at home a lot of the times. Some

2325
02:16:20,040 --> 02:16:24,000
Speaker 1: cats are loners, but it's but sea cat crave other

2326
02:16:24,080 --> 02:16:26,240
Speaker 1: cat company is like it would be it would be

2327
02:16:26,240 --> 02:16:29,400
Speaker 1: cruel because I think they live in packs, right, Like

2328
02:16:29,440 --> 02:16:31,360
Speaker 1: cats in the wild tend to live in packs. So

2329
02:16:31,400 --> 02:16:34,880
Speaker 1: I think I mean one cat to cat, there's not

2330
02:16:34,920 --> 02:16:37,199
Speaker 1: that much difference, just you know, I think it really

2331
02:16:37,240 --> 02:16:39,560
Speaker 1: only changes when you sort of get up around like five, six,

2332
02:16:39,640 --> 02:16:42,480
Speaker 1: seven cats. Then it's like whoa, then you have you

2333
02:16:42,560 --> 02:16:47,000
Speaker 1: might have a problem. Then it's like at that point

2334
02:16:47,040 --> 02:16:52,760
Speaker 1: you very firmly know who saved two and it was

2335
02:16:52,800 --> 02:16:59,800
Speaker 1: not Jesus. But like four cats are less, that's reasonable. Yeah, yeah,

2336
02:17:00,080 --> 02:17:05,240
Speaker 1: cats is nothing. Although Edward Gory, the children's author, I love,

2337
02:17:06,840 --> 02:17:08,600
Speaker 1: I adore him. I want to be him when I

2338
02:17:08,600 --> 02:17:10,480
Speaker 1: grow up, because he just walked around in for coats

2339
02:17:11,120 --> 02:17:14,320
Speaker 1: and like rings and he had always had five cats.

2340
02:17:14,360 --> 02:17:16,160
Speaker 1: And he always had five cats because he said, you

2341
02:17:16,160 --> 02:17:18,080
Speaker 1: have to have an uneven number of cats because otherwise

2342
02:17:18,080 --> 02:17:20,800
Speaker 1: they get too organized, and you can't have more than

2343
02:17:20,879 --> 02:17:24,200
Speaker 1: five cats because it just gets out of hand. So

2344
02:17:24,680 --> 02:17:26,720
Speaker 1: I think that's advice to live back him. I have.

2345
02:17:27,200 --> 02:17:30,400
Speaker 1: I have Edward Gory cat wine glasses. It's the whole thing.

2346
02:17:30,480 --> 02:17:36,879
Speaker 1: I love him so much. Oh gosh, well, I guess

2347
02:17:36,959 --> 02:17:41,640
Speaker 1: you can follow us media. Sorry we to start talking about.

2348
02:17:42,000 --> 02:17:45,240
Speaker 1: Follow me at Caitlin Durante on Instagram and check out

2349
02:17:45,280 --> 02:17:49,199
Speaker 1: all my saved stories because they're all cats doing funny

2350
02:17:49,200 --> 02:17:53,920
Speaker 1: things set to music. That's what I want to plug today. Um.

2351
02:17:54,040 --> 02:17:56,800
Speaker 1: And also you can follow the Bactel Cast on Twitter

2352
02:17:56,879 --> 02:18:02,120
Speaker 1: and Instagram at bectel Cast. We've got our Patreon aka Matreon,

2353
02:18:02,680 --> 02:18:05,920
Speaker 1: which is at patreon dot com slash pecktel Cast and

2354
02:18:06,640 --> 02:18:10,200
Speaker 1: that is five dollars a month and that gives you

2355
02:18:10,320 --> 02:18:13,959
Speaker 1: two bonus episodes every month as well as access to

2356
02:18:14,000 --> 02:18:19,039
Speaker 1: the entire back catalog. And it's November, so after many

2357
02:18:19,120 --> 02:18:22,040
Speaker 1: years of avoiding it, we're doing Mary Kate and Ashley

2358
02:18:22,120 --> 02:18:26,520
Speaker 1: month bomb the Matreon. Amazing, amazing. My sister loved those

2359
02:18:26,520 --> 02:18:29,760
Speaker 1: movies growing up. I'm like, I think I love none

2360
02:18:29,760 --> 02:18:32,400
Speaker 1: of them, but and yet I've seen all of them.

2361
02:18:32,440 --> 02:18:35,320
Speaker 1: Oh that's very much where I find myself. Just like,

2362
02:18:35,480 --> 02:18:37,560
Speaker 1: how do I know the song the intro song to

2363
02:18:37,640 --> 02:18:40,840
Speaker 1: like Mary Kate Nashley Mysteries? Right? And then you're like, wait,

2364
02:18:40,879 --> 02:18:42,879
Speaker 1: I have no attachment to this, and yet it's so

2365
02:18:43,080 --> 02:18:47,039
Speaker 1: osmosis onto you that you can't avoid it. We're doing it,

2366
02:18:47,240 --> 02:18:50,959
Speaker 1: We're doing it, and uh yeah, our t public dot

2367
02:18:50,959 --> 02:18:53,120
Speaker 1: com slash the Pectel Castle where you can get all

2368
02:18:53,160 --> 02:18:57,240
Speaker 1: of our merch and be kind to each other. Get

2369
02:18:57,240 --> 02:18:59,800
Speaker 1: out there, do some mutual aid educate yourselves. We will

2370
02:18:59,840 --> 02:19:03,840
Speaker 1: be releasing resources at the same time as this episode.

2371
02:19:04,400 --> 02:19:09,800
Speaker 1: And do the damn work and people, or you'll die,

2372
02:19:10,160 --> 02:19:14,440
Speaker 1: or you will die. Something to keep in mind. Bye

2373
02:19:14,440 --> 02:19:15,039
Speaker 1: bye bye