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Speaker 1: If you have your own story of being in a

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Speaker 1: cult or a high control group.

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Speaker 2: Or if you've had experience with manipulation or abusive power

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Speaker 2: that you'd like to share.

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Speaker 1: Leave us a message on our hotline number at three

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Speaker 1: four seven eight six trust.

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Speaker 2: That's three four seven eight six eight seven eight seven eight.

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Speaker 1: Or shoot us an email at trustmepod at gmail dot com.

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Speaker 1: Trust me, trust me, Trust me. I'm like a swat person.

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Speaker 3: I've never lived to you, I never do.

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Speaker 2: You think that one person has all the answers?

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Speaker 1: Don't welcome to Trust Me, the podcast about cults, extreme

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Speaker 1: belief and manipulation. I am Megan Elizabeth and this week

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Speaker 1: we are without Lo Lablanc, but this time it's good news.

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Speaker 1: She is in Spain at a very prestigious film festival

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Speaker 1: where her film is in it. We are with producer Steve.

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Speaker 1: He's clapping hello, Hello, so Steve. This week it's just

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Speaker 1: me talking to some of our listeners, which people seem

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Speaker 1: to really enjoy the episodes where we get to know

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Speaker 1: some of the people that were speaking to every week

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Speaker 1: and their experience with their own very culty upbringings or

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Speaker 1: things they got into later in life.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, and we have a couple of great stories this week,

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Speaker 4: including one from novelist and cult survivor Shelley Snowpordia, who

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Speaker 4: was involved with the Independent Fundamentalist Baptist movement. She talks

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Speaker 4: about her involvement with it, what was going on with

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Speaker 4: the leader, his ulterior motives, and the cult awareness work

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Speaker 4: that she's.

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Speaker 1: Doing right now. And we talked to our new friend

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Speaker 1: Claire who got involved in a capawera cults New Orleans.

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Speaker 1: Fascinating stuff, so stay tuned for that story as well. Now, Steve, yes, Megan,

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Speaker 1: are you ready for this week's cultiest thing of the week?

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Speaker 1: So ready, there's only going to be one. It's going

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Speaker 1: to be mine because you don't have one, because you

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Speaker 1: don't know that you had to do this. Sorry, it's okay,

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Speaker 1: because mine fills twenty buckets worth of stuff. Maybe everybody's

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Speaker 1: seen the Vanity Fair article about these YouTubers. Their names

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Speaker 1: are Jeff, and her name's like you know how people

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Speaker 1: name their kids Ashley, but it's like Ashlee La Like

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Speaker 1: her name to me looks like Sheila, but it has

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Speaker 1: like twenty more letters out. Oh great, Okay. They have

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Speaker 1: a YouTube channel, lots of subscribers, twin flame universe. Nobody

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Speaker 1: look it up because I don't want to give them

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Speaker 1: any more. Look up the Vanity Fair article. But you know,

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Speaker 1: twin Flames is the kind of thing that I personally

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Speaker 1: could get very involved in have gotten very involved in.

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Speaker 1: It's a concept I like, it's spiritual. It's like every

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Speaker 1: person on Earth has their counterpart.

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Speaker 4: Correct, okay, And this is a centralized group organization platform

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Speaker 4: that teaches these kinds of things.

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Speaker 1: Well yeah, I mean essentially they were like, we're twin

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Speaker 1: flames and we found each other. We're going to help

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Speaker 1: you find your twin flames. Join our Facebook group. A

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Speaker 1: lot of people sell their courses, these spiritual people for

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Speaker 1: numbers like four four hundred and forty four dollars, So

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Speaker 1: because you know, everybody loves a repeating.

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Speaker 4: Numbers Angel numbers.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I love those memes where it's like you get

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Speaker 1: your bank account's negative three hundred and thirty three dollars

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Speaker 1: and somebody's like my angel number. It's a meme, not

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Speaker 1: something that's ever happened to me. So these people, essentially,

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Speaker 1: you know, are kind of selling their courses for these repeating,

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Speaker 1: very high numbers. It teaches you how to find your

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Speaker 1: twin flame, and sometimes finding your twin flame means stalking,

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Speaker 1: oh means becoming a completely different person and maybe doing

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Speaker 1: stuff that you wouldn't normally feel comfortable doing.

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Speaker 4: And we're hoping to get somebody involved in the documentary

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Speaker 4: on interview in a future episode, so stay tuned for that.

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Speaker 1: Welcome Shelley Pordia.

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Speaker 3: Thank you so much. It's really a pleasure and honor.

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Speaker 1: So I've already told you I'm kind of obsessed with

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Speaker 1: the work that you're doing now, and we're going to

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Speaker 1: get to it and kind of go into what that is.

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Speaker 1: But let's start from the beginning. How did you grow

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Speaker 1: up or what is your quote unquote cult experience?

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Speaker 3: Yeah, so I was born and raised in the Independent

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Speaker 3: Fundamental Baptist Movement or the IFB and our yeah, our

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Speaker 3: church was also introduced to the IBOP at one point,

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Speaker 3: so I have some of that, you know, that's.

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Speaker 1: The dutters yes, okay, okay.

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Speaker 3: That peppered out throughout my experience as well.

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Speaker 1: So how does this differ from the Baptist Church is

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Speaker 1: just a general yes.

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Speaker 3: So I think like there's a long history of it.

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Speaker 3: It probably stems back to like the nineteen hundreds, early

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Speaker 3: nineteen hundred and nineteen twenties ish where they decided that

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Speaker 3: they were going to break away from the General Baptist

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Speaker 3: Convention or the Southern Baptist Convention, American Baptists. You know,

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Speaker 3: there's all these different types of Baptists in the United States,

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Speaker 3: and I think they were just really firm on specific

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Speaker 3: rules and they started to form their own network. And

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Speaker 3: they are very clever in calling it independent because then

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Speaker 3: they don't claim that, you know, they are part of

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Speaker 3: anything else. And it became a whole movement. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: How big did it get?

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Speaker 3: I think when I was born, it was probably in

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Speaker 3: its heyday, you know, in my early childhood and even

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Speaker 3: up to my teenage years really, so like nineteen seventy

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Speaker 3: four or five, I believe the leader that we followed,

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Speaker 3: Jack Kyles, was in Time magazine, so he was featured, Yeah,

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Speaker 3: as having the world's largest Sunday school. We would go

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Speaker 3: on campus every Sunday and they would claim that like

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Speaker 3: twenty thousand people were in attendance, so.

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Speaker 1: Okay, so okay, wow, So this was super mainstream.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean like Megachurch before we had the terminology

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Speaker 3: of megachurch. That's what it was, right for sure, Like

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Speaker 3: I grew up in the nineteen seventies and eighties, and

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Speaker 3: like that's was normal for me to go to a

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Speaker 3: church of you know, five six thousand people and one auditorium,

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Speaker 3: you know, one service.

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Speaker 1: Where were you located in.

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Speaker 3: The hamlet in Indiana area, it's like an hour outside

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Speaker 3: of Chicago.

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Speaker 1: So maybe you can go into a little bit about

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Speaker 1: what made this church independent, what rules they really got

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Speaker 1: hooked onto, and what that looked like for you.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, so I think that it's kind of just like

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Speaker 3: any other could. It starts out as one thing and

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Speaker 3: then you build on it. You know, the goalpost is

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Speaker 3: always moving. But the when the moral majority, I guess

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Speaker 3: was like starting specifically like in my lifetime, right, and

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Speaker 3: they kind of saw a need to modernize. Our leaders

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Speaker 3: saw that we were going to be the ones that

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Speaker 3: held onto what they called the old paths. And so

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Speaker 3: the women had very strict gender roles. We were not

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Speaker 3: allowed to wear anything but a skirt depending on the family.

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Speaker 3: Like girls were allowed to cut their hair are in

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Speaker 3: like shorter haircuts.

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Speaker 1: Oh my gosh, this is my life growing up too.

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Speaker 3: I know. I will relate to your stories for sure.

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Speaker 3: And then there was a whole movement about bus kids

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Speaker 3: and so like we were going to go save the

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Speaker 3: poor children whose parents weren't sending them to church, and

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Speaker 3: so we would go into the cities with our buses

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Speaker 3: and you know, collect children. And I'm not even joking.

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Speaker 1: So what would you Okay, let's role play. I'm a child,

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Speaker 1: You're you're trying to get me onto the bus. How

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Speaker 1: would that go?

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Speaker 3: Yeah, hey, Megan, we have this exciting day of fun tomorrow.

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Speaker 3: We are all going to church. And if you ride

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Speaker 3: our bus, you are going to get a goldfish in

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Speaker 3: a bag, A love goldfish. What do you love to

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Speaker 3: have on?

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Speaker 1: Oh my god, I would be on that bus faster

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Speaker 1: than okay, then a goldfish dies, I guess. Wow, Okay, Okay,

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Speaker 1: So there was little incentives. And I mean, would the

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Speaker 1: parents come to or would these kids just be like, guess,

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Speaker 1: I'm going to Sunday school.

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Speaker 3: I mean, I guess there's a reason there was this

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Speaker 3: whole stranger danger panic, you know, Okay, because we were

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Speaker 3: riding around saying I'm with us. Yeah, yeah, they won't

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Speaker 3: they would, they would let us. And and that's really

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Speaker 3: actually the reason I got connected with trust Me. I

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Speaker 3: called in first because I heard somebody call in and say,

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Speaker 3: I don't know, like these random people came and picked

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Speaker 3: us up on buses, and I'm like.

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Speaker 1: You were, like that was me? That was me?

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Speaker 3: Yes, I do you remember? Yeah? Yes?

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Speaker 1: Were you sent to secular school or okay, no, no,

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Speaker 1: it was a school.

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Speaker 3: Yeah. And that was another thing, you know, like back

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Speaker 3: in the seventies where everybody was panicking, probably more grow

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Speaker 3: about segregation, integration, all the other things than they were

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Speaker 3: about actual education. But that's a different conversation probably, But

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Speaker 3: they we ar died saying like it's you're feeding your

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Speaker 3: children to the devil when you send them to the

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Speaker 3: public schools. And so they would raise up these independent

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Speaker 3: fundaental Baptist schools, and we went to since we were

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Speaker 3: at the megachurch at the time, that's where we were enrolled,

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Speaker 3: So we went to those schools.

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Speaker 1: So did you have any outside friends, did you have

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Speaker 1: any outside influences?

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Speaker 3: Not for the earlier parts of my childhood. So I

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Speaker 3: was born in Saint Louis, Missouri, and we lived here

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Speaker 3: until I was like four probably, and then when I

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Speaker 3: was entering preschool kindergarten age, we moved up there to

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Speaker 3: the megachurch, and so my dad went to the college there,

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Speaker 3: and the kids, you know, we were enrolled in the

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Speaker 3: schools and so until I was probably eleven or so

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Speaker 3: when we moved back. That was my whole life. I

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Speaker 3: did not have outside influences.

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Speaker 1: And you were totally in. It was all you knew.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, totally in. Yeah, for sure. I mean we

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Speaker 3: you know, we were still kids. And like I said,

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Speaker 3: back then, the rules were starting to change more and more.

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Speaker 3: It was stricter and stricter and stricter, and so like

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Speaker 3: some families still had TVs in their homes. I remember

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Speaker 3: when we got rid of ours, or I wasn't allowed

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Speaker 3: to watch you know, like Superhero Ducay of Hazard. I

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Speaker 3: remember we weren't allowed to watch it anymore, you know,

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Speaker 3: because the women weren't dressed right and all that. So, yeah,

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Speaker 3: I just got stricter and stricter. And I'm sure that

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Speaker 3: you know, the rules were in place for some, but

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Speaker 3: I think it became more blatant from the pulpit and

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Speaker 3: that became the focus. Like I don't remember hearing a

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Speaker 3: lot of sermons growing up on like this is what

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Speaker 3: Jesus taught and this is how we should live. It

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Speaker 3: was more like this is how evil everyone else is

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Speaker 3: and these are evils.

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Speaker 5: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: It was like there was never anything of like this

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Speaker 1: is what's good. It was just this is how other

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Speaker 1: people are doing it bad. And I was like, okay,

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Speaker 1: but what's good? So I have two different questions. I'm

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Speaker 1: just going to say them both out loud so that

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Speaker 1: you can answer which comes first. What was the crack

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Speaker 1: in your shelf that made you finally be like, what

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Speaker 1: what's happening? And what ended up happening with this leader?

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Speaker 1: Did he become some dark force that we usually see

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Speaker 1: or is he still practicing and a normal member quote

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Speaker 1: unquote of society?

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Speaker 6: Yeah?

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Speaker 3: So the leader that I grew up with had a

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Speaker 3: long brain, and he you know, lived and died as

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Speaker 3: the leader he I guess to me, I always had

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Speaker 3: an experience of benevolence. I you know, loved him and

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Speaker 3: thought he was just this gracious and wonderful man. I

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Speaker 3: didn't know how controlling he was. The scandals were hidden

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Speaker 3: from us, Like when I was in high school, there

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Speaker 3: was a whole scandal. He was on one of those

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Speaker 3: shows like hard Copy or something or Inside Edition or something,

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Speaker 3: because he had a deacon accuse him of having a

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Speaker 3: years long affair with his wife, but that was hidden

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Speaker 3: from us. I actually do remember were seeing that and

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Speaker 3: asking my parents about it, and the response was like,

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Speaker 3: it's just amazing the links people will go to to

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Speaker 3: bring down the man of God. And that was the explanation. Yeah,

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Speaker 3: so those types of things happen, and I know that

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Speaker 3: he was a lot more controlling than I was ever

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Speaker 3: exposed to his You know, he's had a child come

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Speaker 3: out and talk about her dad the cult eaterer. So yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 3: so you know, like he's he's got some see the

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Speaker 3: stuff in his past.

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Speaker 1: Was her experience like with that? What did she say?

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Speaker 3: Yeah? So she said that, yeah, they witnessed us children,

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Speaker 3: the fact that they had strict rules around being friends

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Speaker 3: with the mistress's children, and how they lived within walking distance,

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Speaker 3: like a few houses away. Apparently this is allegedly he

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Speaker 3: built them a house and so he could see her

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Speaker 3: all the time and they would have these Yeah, so

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Speaker 3: they would have these like light flashing of their vehicles

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Speaker 3: when he would come home that she would know. And anyway,

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Speaker 3: so like this whole secret life that he lived and

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Speaker 3: treated her husband very cruelly manipulatively. You know, he would

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Speaker 3: convince him that God that he was celibate, that he

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Speaker 3: no longer had a relationship with his own wife, and

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Speaker 3: that God was using him to help his stress in

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Speaker 3: her relationship, and that he shouldn't have any more sexual

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Speaker 3: relations with his own wife, and convinced him to move

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Speaker 3: up into an apartment above his garage and not live

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Speaker 3: with her anymore.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it doesn't sound like he was calling himself per

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Speaker 1: se a prophet, was he, or like my son will

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Speaker 1: take my place? Like who took his place?

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Speaker 3: What was his Yeah, his son in law took his place.

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Speaker 3: He did not call himself a prophet, but he preached

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Speaker 3: often about what happened to people who go against the

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Speaker 3: man of God. So there was definite, you know, loyalty

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Speaker 3: and submission and anything that he said. Like I remember

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Speaker 3: when I was dating my husband and my husband didn't return,

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Speaker 3: you know, obviously at the time he was just my

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Speaker 3: boyfriend and he didn't return to the college where you know,

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Speaker 3: I was attending. And he told me, like there are

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Speaker 3: other fish in the sea. If he can't make it here,

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Speaker 3: he's not for you. Like he would try to control

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Speaker 3: everything about us, Like I wasn't supposed to date my

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Speaker 3: husband because he didn't he wasn't one of us, He

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Speaker 3: wasn't raised this way. He didn't you know, he couldn't

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Speaker 3: hack it here, and so yeah, you know, you see

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Speaker 3: it now. It seems like a kind grandfatherly thing for

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Speaker 3: him to do, but he was very controlling. So yeah,

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Speaker 3: his son in law, his son has a very just

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Speaker 3: crazy background. He's been accused of attempted murder and these

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Speaker 3: crazy affairs and just that. Obviously he couldn't pass on

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Speaker 3: his empire to his son, so he passed it to

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Speaker 3: his son in law, and his son in law went

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Speaker 3: to prison for eleven years. I believe he got out

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Speaker 3: last year or maybe early this year. Was it early

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Speaker 3: this year? Yeah? I believe it was earlier this year

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Speaker 3: because he served his time, but he was taking a

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Speaker 3: teenager across state lines for oh my god.

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Speaker 1: Okay, so the is this religion still in existence? Is

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Speaker 1: there still the megachurch? Is it still happening? Yeah?

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Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, I mean I don't know anything really about

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Speaker 3: what happens nowadays, but you know that the system is

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Speaker 3: still there. I don't know that the man who has

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Speaker 3: gone on to lead it is you know, malicious and

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Speaker 3: horrible and abusive and a pedophile like I can't say

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Speaker 3: anything about that because I haven't heard anything like that.

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Speaker 3: But the system in play is still there, and I

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Speaker 3: know that as recent as this year, there was a

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Speaker 3: like a bus word I believe who was accused of

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Speaker 3: sexual misconduct and the same things were said from the

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Speaker 3: pulpit about loving and forgiving and our brother in Christ

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Speaker 3: and accusations.

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Speaker 1: And it's always all about forgiveness until a woman wears pants.

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Speaker 3: Right or go on the podcast?

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Speaker 1: Does this stiff still affect you? I mean I want to.

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Speaker 1: I know we only have a limited time with you,

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Speaker 1: and I want to get into all the work that

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Speaker 1: you've been doing now because you have books. Do you

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Speaker 1: still feel crushed by some of the system that was

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Speaker 1: instilled in you? Or do you feel free? Or what's

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Speaker 1: happened with you now? And how did you get out

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Speaker 1: of it?

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Speaker 3: Yeah? I mean I definitely feel free, Thank goodness. I

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Speaker 3: you know, using the word cult is very healing for

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Speaker 3: me because I feel as if, you know, just to

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Speaker 3: piggyback off of the shining happy people. Think that's very

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Speaker 3: much what we presented. We present so those these you know,

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Speaker 3: very shiny happy people. And there was always, at least

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Speaker 3: in me and in my body I always had this

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Speaker 3: agitation that I couldn't shake, and I felt as if

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Speaker 3: there was no peace ever. And to be able to

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Speaker 3: pull out that darkness and like you know, see that

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Speaker 3: hey cult labels this for what it is is like

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Speaker 3: so freeing for me totally. So yeah, And you know,

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Speaker 3: I know the word can be problematic and whatever. I

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Speaker 3: just choose to define it in my life that way.

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Speaker 3: But yeah, it's it's still in existence. And the things

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Speaker 3: that really affect me the most is when I see

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Speaker 3: people who look like they're wearing the uniform I used

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Speaker 3: to wear and are trying to stab me and proselytize

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Speaker 3: or other you know, just talk to me. It's like

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Speaker 3: those are the times where it's like I just want

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Speaker 3: to tell stories to help people figure out the red

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Speaker 3: flags and maybe wantay they'll be free.

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Speaker 1: What are some of the red flags?

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Speaker 3: You know? Some of the things that I would say

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Speaker 3: or wish are the red flags that I, you know,

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Speaker 3: would like to highlight. Or's just personal autonomy, Like there's

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Speaker 3: there's a worth inside you that no one can take

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Speaker 3: away and that was beaten out of us. And just

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Speaker 3: to be able to reflect some kind of worth back

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Speaker 3: to another person, is I don't know to you know,

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Speaker 3: hopefully not trigger anyone, but it's like it's a calling

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00:18:27,119 --> 00:18:29,720
Speaker 3: for me, you know. It was just like I want

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Speaker 3: to be able to let you see the worth that's

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Speaker 3: within you.

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Speaker 1: Well you got out. Was your husband a big part

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Speaker 1: of that?

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Speaker 3: Yeah, for sure. Yeah, he didn't grow up like us.

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Speaker 3: And we moved overseas in nineteen ninety nine and I

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Speaker 3: lived there until twenty thirteen, and I was, you know,

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Speaker 3: so far removed of it and I didn't break free

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Speaker 3: from the mind control for years. And he was very gracious,

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Speaker 3: and I don't know, he must have had some kind

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Speaker 3: of like weird innate cult training inside of him, because

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Speaker 3: he let me process as I processed and release things

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Speaker 3: as I released them. And I, yeah, I think that

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Speaker 3: I didn't have like a breakaway moment. I had a

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Speaker 3: gradual unveiling of.

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Speaker 1: Probably more commonly. So, yeah, it always feels like like

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Speaker 1: there's going to be that one big crack. But somebody

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Speaker 1: just used the example of it's like a shelf that

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Speaker 1: just things keep getting placed on it on it and

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Speaker 1: eventually it breaks.

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Speaker 3: So yeah, yeah, I remember the breaking like I do.

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Speaker 3: There was a moment where it felt like I was

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Speaker 3: just completely untethered, there's nothing left. But yeah, as far

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Speaker 3: as like, is there something that you know, No, it's

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Speaker 3: a stacking up. There's evidence after evidence that people who

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Speaker 3: live differently from us have good, beautiful, fulfilling, loving lives

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Speaker 3: and treat each other with respect and dignity. And that's

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Speaker 3: never the message I got.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, what's your relationship like with your family now?

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Speaker 3: Yeah, so my dad is deceased, my mother is still

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Speaker 3: She still goes to and it dependent on a Baptist church.

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Speaker 3: And she's really good about not practicing all the things

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Speaker 3: that they say that I should probably, but she's good

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Speaker 3: about saying like, I'm only going to say this once,

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Speaker 3: and she will. She'll say it once, and she'll you know,

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Speaker 3: like if she disapproves or she's like not comfortable lot somethings,

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Speaker 3: she'll say it once and then just let you do

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Speaker 3: your thing. And so you know, that's good. And we

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Speaker 3: see each other for holidays and things. It's very cordial.

377
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Speaker 3: I have three siblings and an older brother who I

378
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Speaker 3: do some work with, but my younger siblings as well.

379
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Speaker 3: I was the last one out, like I was the

380
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Speaker 3: one I was always the peacemaker, and so you know

381
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Speaker 3: it took me the longest.

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Speaker 1: What age were you when you were officially out?

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Speaker 3: Would you say, gosh, I think mentally I had a

384
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Speaker 3: breakdown when I was thirty and then you know, it

385
00:21:00,400 --> 00:21:03,879
Speaker 3: took it was that full year, probably year and a half,

386
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Speaker 3: of like finally just saying this is this is not right,

387
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Speaker 3: this is not for me. Yeah, I can't ever go back.

388
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Speaker 3: I'm gonna wear pants in front of my parents, like

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Speaker 3: you know, those kind of things, like I'm not gonna

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Speaker 3: be scared anymore. It's gonna Yeah, it.

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Speaker 1: Sounds it sounds so silly to people who weren't raised

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Speaker 1: this way, but I mean the like shame and the

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Speaker 1: terror and this just icky feeling inside of you is

394
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Speaker 1: so hard to portray to people who weren't raised the

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Speaker 1: same way. So you put it into beautiful words, and

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Speaker 1: I mean you're helping people tell their own stories now correct.

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Speaker 3: Yes, yes, yeah, I started with them, like I said,

398
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Speaker 3: just publishing a story. It is a time travel love story,

399
00:21:52,080 --> 00:21:56,359
Speaker 3: kind of cheesy little work that I put out and

400
00:21:56,800 --> 00:21:58,919
Speaker 3: I had people just ask me, hey, how did you

401
00:21:59,000 --> 00:22:02,240
Speaker 3: do that. It started getting into coaching of you know,

402
00:22:02,280 --> 00:22:05,960
Speaker 3: how to self publish, how to write, and I ended

403
00:22:06,000 --> 00:22:08,680
Speaker 3: up putting it up online. I still do some coaching,

404
00:22:09,119 --> 00:22:12,320
Speaker 3: but I have a few courses that I really walk

405
00:22:12,359 --> 00:22:16,720
Speaker 3: people through, and you know, write and publish your work.

406
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Speaker 3: I'm really passionate about people being able to tell their stories.

407
00:22:20,160 --> 00:22:23,480
Speaker 3: I feel like part of being born and raised in

408
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Speaker 3: a cult is the fact that you feel silenced so often,

409
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Speaker 3: and so I really just want to like help people. Yes,

410
00:22:28,960 --> 00:22:30,800
Speaker 3: tell your story, It's amazing. Come do it.

411
00:22:31,240 --> 00:22:34,719
Speaker 1: Yes, yes, even if it's just journaling. Everybody needs to

412
00:22:34,840 --> 00:22:40,360
Speaker 1: just get it out, especially people raised and high control groups,

413
00:22:40,480 --> 00:22:43,719
Speaker 1: like get your own thoughts out, get your own thoughts moving,

414
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Speaker 1: and meet the real you. But like I told you

415
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Speaker 1: at the beginning of this, I'll probably be hiring you

416
00:22:50,200 --> 00:22:53,960
Speaker 1: very soon to write my own book because your website's fantastic.

417
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Speaker 1: What is it for everybody who would like to find you?

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Speaker 3: Yes, you can find me just at my named Shelley

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00:23:00,720 --> 00:23:04,760
Speaker 3: Snowportia dot com and it'll take you to all the

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00:23:04,800 --> 00:23:08,600
Speaker 3: links that I've got. I own a separate website, The

421
00:23:08,760 --> 00:23:14,119
Speaker 3: Creative View, is where my courses are hosted. So damn

422
00:23:14,200 --> 00:23:15,639
Speaker 3: good find on everybody there.

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Speaker 1: That's a great website, name the Creative View. I've yes, good,

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00:23:21,320 --> 00:23:22,240
Speaker 1: good find well.

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Speaker 3: I just love to do a big shout out. I

426
00:23:24,640 --> 00:23:28,119
Speaker 3: am part of the I Got Out movement, the hashtag

427
00:23:28,200 --> 00:23:30,439
Speaker 3: if you've seen it with people using that. We are

428
00:23:30,560 --> 00:23:33,840
Speaker 3: doing our first ever story jams. So it's literally survivors

429
00:23:33,880 --> 00:23:38,080
Speaker 3: are on stage telling their story live in person. It

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Speaker 3: is the twenty first of October. So it's a week

431
00:23:41,200 --> 00:23:45,480
Speaker 3: from Saturday. Yeah, I'm just really excited. Where Hea and

432
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Speaker 3: Saint Louis.

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Speaker 1: So anybody in Saint Louis, Okay, near Saint Louis, run

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Speaker 1: as fast as you can. I would. I would love

435
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Speaker 1: to see that. I hope that comes to Los Angeles

436
00:23:58,320 --> 00:24:00,000
Speaker 1: and because that sounds fantastic.

437
00:24:00,119 --> 00:24:00,439
Speaker 5: Stick.

438
00:24:00,800 --> 00:24:04,240
Speaker 3: Yes, we are putting out surveys. We want to do it,

439
00:24:04,320 --> 00:24:06,639
Speaker 3: you know, in other cities. This was just kind of

440
00:24:06,640 --> 00:24:09,679
Speaker 3: the brainchild at one of the co founders and she

441
00:24:09,920 --> 00:24:13,240
Speaker 3: and I met here locally and partnered with somebody. I

442
00:24:13,280 --> 00:24:15,520
Speaker 3: was like, you should meet so and so, and we

443
00:24:15,760 --> 00:24:20,159
Speaker 3: partnered and it just turned into something. Yeah, just that,

444
00:24:20,320 --> 00:24:22,160
Speaker 3: something that I think we're going to be really really

445
00:24:22,200 --> 00:24:25,720
Speaker 3: proud of. So it's exciting and check it out. There

446
00:24:25,720 --> 00:24:27,760
Speaker 3: aren't a lot of tickets left. I think we're down

447
00:24:27,800 --> 00:24:29,040
Speaker 3: to like thirty.

448
00:24:28,880 --> 00:24:32,440
Speaker 1: I buy it. So yeah, that's going to be, that's

449
00:24:32,480 --> 00:24:34,720
Speaker 1: going to be packed and as it should be. I'm

450
00:24:34,720 --> 00:24:37,000
Speaker 1: going to definitely email you and see how that went.

451
00:24:37,720 --> 00:24:41,879
Speaker 1: And I'm just so grateful for you talking to me today.

452
00:24:41,960 --> 00:24:43,919
Speaker 1: I cannot believe you are one of the bus people.

453
00:24:44,960 --> 00:24:49,200
Speaker 3: One of the bus people. Yes, yes, indeed.

454
00:24:50,760 --> 00:24:54,320
Speaker 1: Last question, what was the what was the like vibe

455
00:24:54,359 --> 00:24:56,800
Speaker 1: on the bus? Were people excited or was it more

456
00:24:56,800 --> 00:24:57,600
Speaker 1: of a solemn?

457
00:24:58,040 --> 00:25:00,760
Speaker 3: I mean, thirty two A is the best, but okay,

458
00:25:00,840 --> 00:25:05,600
Speaker 3: cramp like hello, okay, so it's goldfish chanting fun.

459
00:25:05,640 --> 00:25:06,560
Speaker 1: The bus was fun.

460
00:25:06,760 --> 00:25:07,840
Speaker 3: The bus was fun.

461
00:25:08,040 --> 00:25:11,320
Speaker 1: Okay, great, okay, fun absolutely.

462
00:25:10,720 --> 00:25:12,280
Speaker 3: And we have candy too, so.

463
00:25:12,440 --> 00:25:19,919
Speaker 1: Holy shit, I might join we Yeah. Well, thank you

464
00:25:20,040 --> 00:25:22,639
Speaker 1: so much, Shelly, and we're so grateful to have spoken

465
00:25:22,680 --> 00:25:23,240
Speaker 1: to you today.

466
00:25:23,480 --> 00:25:25,600
Speaker 3: Oh, thank you so much, Megan. I really appreciate it.

467
00:25:33,480 --> 00:25:35,440
Speaker 1: Hi, Claire, welcome to the podcast.

468
00:25:35,880 --> 00:25:37,280
Speaker 5: Hi, thank you so much for having me.

469
00:25:37,520 --> 00:25:41,240
Speaker 1: All Right, So you got involved with something I've never

470
00:25:41,560 --> 00:25:44,320
Speaker 1: really been familiar with before. I've been looking it up online.

471
00:25:44,440 --> 00:25:47,960
Speaker 1: It looks like just fun martial arts. Maybe you can

472
00:25:48,119 --> 00:25:50,480
Speaker 1: pronounce it for me, because you say it way more

473
00:25:50,480 --> 00:25:51,720
Speaker 1: eloquently than I do.

474
00:25:52,040 --> 00:25:55,880
Speaker 6: Yeah, So it's cappaweta it's an Afro Brazilian martial art.

475
00:25:56,840 --> 00:25:59,480
Speaker 6: A lot of people will refer to it as dance fighting,

476
00:26:00,040 --> 00:26:02,000
Speaker 6: and a lot of people have their point of reference

477
00:26:02,000 --> 00:26:03,440
Speaker 6: from an episode.

478
00:26:03,119 --> 00:26:06,720
Speaker 5: Of Bob's Burgers. They're actually a couple episodes of Bob's Burgers.

479
00:26:06,840 --> 00:26:09,520
Speaker 1: Yeah, what do they do with it? And Bob's Burgers.

480
00:26:10,000 --> 00:26:14,720
Speaker 6: They have Tina the awkward teenage child like fall in

481
00:26:14,760 --> 00:26:18,720
Speaker 6: love with this Caputa mestre like the head of his

482
00:26:18,760 --> 00:26:23,280
Speaker 6: studio down the street. Yeah, and his little running joke

483
00:26:23,600 --> 00:26:25,960
Speaker 6: that they do with it is he's got long hair

484
00:26:26,000 --> 00:26:27,480
Speaker 6: and he just always goes ponytail.

485
00:26:27,640 --> 00:26:30,280
Speaker 1: Okay, Okay, now I need to watch it to be honest.

486
00:26:30,560 --> 00:26:33,840
Speaker 1: Uh slight aside, my best friend wants Stressed as her

487
00:26:33,920 --> 00:26:37,919
Speaker 1: for Halloween and sent the video to two guys that

488
00:26:38,000 --> 00:26:39,560
Speaker 1: she was dating at the same time and they just

489
00:26:39,560 --> 00:26:42,040
Speaker 1: so happened to be eating at the same table together

490
00:26:42,240 --> 00:26:47,000
Speaker 1: and both sat so very very traumatizing show for our

491
00:26:47,040 --> 00:26:48,800
Speaker 1: friend group. Anyway.

492
00:26:50,119 --> 00:26:52,359
Speaker 6: Yeah, I might touch back on it later after I

493
00:26:52,400 --> 00:26:55,440
Speaker 6: tell my story, but yeah, So it was developed by

494
00:26:56,200 --> 00:26:59,520
Speaker 6: enslaved African people in Brazil as a method of resistance

495
00:26:59,720 --> 00:27:03,280
Speaker 6: again the people who had enslaved them, and the reason

496
00:27:03,320 --> 00:27:05,480
Speaker 6: that it looks more like a dance than a fight

497
00:27:05,640 --> 00:27:08,320
Speaker 6: is because they were trying to disguise it wow and

498
00:27:08,400 --> 00:27:10,359
Speaker 6: saying no, actually, this is just a dance from our

499
00:27:10,400 --> 00:27:10,959
Speaker 6: home country.

500
00:27:11,000 --> 00:27:12,280
Speaker 5: So they would play music with it.

501
00:27:13,280 --> 00:27:16,679
Speaker 6: And since they're also training to fight, but training with

502
00:27:16,720 --> 00:27:20,160
Speaker 6: each other, they weren't beating each other up. So even

503
00:27:20,160 --> 00:27:23,639
Speaker 6: when you see it today, you're kicking and dodging, but

504
00:27:23,680 --> 00:27:25,280
Speaker 6: there's very little contact.

505
00:27:25,560 --> 00:27:30,560
Speaker 1: Well, it sounds beautiful, It sounds like something anyone would

506
00:27:30,600 --> 00:27:34,080
Speaker 1: become interested in, but you went the extra mile and

507
00:27:34,119 --> 00:27:37,000
Speaker 1: actually started practicing it. What did you hope that that

508
00:27:37,040 --> 00:27:39,040
Speaker 1: would look like and what did it become?

509
00:27:39,400 --> 00:27:42,399
Speaker 6: Yeah, so it was kind of an accident how I

510
00:27:42,440 --> 00:27:45,320
Speaker 6: got into it. I've always been a dancer and I

511
00:27:45,359 --> 00:27:48,200
Speaker 6: had gymnastics training. So the summer after high school, I

512
00:27:48,240 --> 00:27:51,800
Speaker 6: went to work at a creative arts camp as an intern,

513
00:27:52,000 --> 00:27:54,679
Speaker 6: and they just kind of placed the interns wherever. So

514
00:27:54,720 --> 00:27:59,600
Speaker 6: they placed me in a capoeta class with a really sweet,

515
00:27:59,680 --> 00:28:02,760
Speaker 6: kind of shy teacher who I worked with for that summer,

516
00:28:03,160 --> 00:28:06,800
Speaker 6: and I loved seeing how like I would hear adults

517
00:28:06,880 --> 00:28:09,200
Speaker 6: say that, oh, you should put your kids in soccer

518
00:28:09,320 --> 00:28:14,600
Speaker 6: and gymnastics for like agility and flexibility and cardio, and

519
00:28:14,680 --> 00:28:19,040
Speaker 6: I saw this as like all of that combined, it's

520
00:28:19,080 --> 00:28:21,320
Speaker 6: really really fun to teach kids and to do it

521
00:28:21,359 --> 00:28:23,879
Speaker 6: with kids, and to learn alongside kids, because then it

522
00:28:23,880 --> 00:28:26,240
Speaker 6: wasn't as intimidating to get into right.

523
00:28:26,720 --> 00:28:28,520
Speaker 5: But by the end of the summer they were.

524
00:28:28,400 --> 00:28:30,159
Speaker 6: Like or this this guy that I had worked with,

525
00:28:30,280 --> 00:28:32,360
Speaker 6: was like, you should really check out the actual academy

526
00:28:32,400 --> 00:28:35,679
Speaker 6: and go to some adult classes in town. And I

527
00:28:35,680 --> 00:28:38,040
Speaker 6: had a car, I could get myself there, and definitely

528
00:28:38,200 --> 00:28:41,640
Speaker 6: when I first showed up, I was intimidated seeing all

529
00:28:41,640 --> 00:28:45,920
Speaker 6: these like grown men in their uniforms practicing.

530
00:28:47,680 --> 00:28:50,440
Speaker 1: So do the uniforms what did the uniforms look like?

531
00:28:50,840 --> 00:28:55,520
Speaker 5: They're white? They're usually white. There are some like branches

532
00:28:55,560 --> 00:28:56,640
Speaker 5: of it that'll wear.

533
00:28:56,680 --> 00:29:02,080
Speaker 6: Black and yellow, but mostly white, with the logo of

534
00:29:02,120 --> 00:29:05,920
Speaker 6: the certain academy on the pants and the shirt and

535
00:29:06,560 --> 00:29:09,440
Speaker 6: built to denote how long you've been training, what level

536
00:29:09,440 --> 00:29:09,800
Speaker 6: you're at.

537
00:29:09,960 --> 00:29:13,600
Speaker 1: Great, So you show up, everybody seems cool and nice.

538
00:29:13,600 --> 00:29:16,480
Speaker 1: I'm assuming and you're rare in to go.

539
00:29:17,320 --> 00:29:22,880
Speaker 6: We're in to go eighteen years old and definitely one

540
00:29:22,880 --> 00:29:25,280
Speaker 6: of the youngest people in the adult classes because it

541
00:29:25,360 --> 00:29:27,880
Speaker 6: switches over at sixteen and it seems like a lot

542
00:29:27,920 --> 00:29:31,960
Speaker 6: of the kids that train drop off after they're like, Okay,

543
00:29:32,000 --> 00:29:33,440
Speaker 6: that's the thing that I did when I was a kid,

544
00:29:34,400 --> 00:29:35,840
Speaker 6: at least in the States.

545
00:29:35,920 --> 00:29:37,240
Speaker 5: I'm not sure about in Brazil.

546
00:29:37,720 --> 00:29:41,880
Speaker 1: Okay, and you're in the southern US, so just for

547
00:29:41,960 --> 00:29:44,880
Speaker 1: context for people. But by the time, so now that

548
00:29:45,000 --> 00:29:48,880
Speaker 1: you're joining the adult classes, these are people who are

549
00:29:49,320 --> 00:29:50,240
Speaker 1: really into it.

550
00:29:50,480 --> 00:29:52,560
Speaker 6: They're really into it, and a lot of them are

551
00:29:53,160 --> 00:29:56,480
Speaker 6: or were adult beginners, like picked it as adults as

552
00:29:56,560 --> 00:30:01,800
Speaker 6: they're at their fun extracurricular their workout and I had

553
00:30:01,840 --> 00:30:04,680
Speaker 6: all this other dance stuff going on, and I was

554
00:30:05,040 --> 00:30:08,920
Speaker 6: looking at it like, wow, that looks like a amazing

555
00:30:08,920 --> 00:30:12,880
Speaker 6: opportunity to cross train for dance. I'm going to get strong,

556
00:30:12,960 --> 00:30:15,920
Speaker 6: I'm going to get all these jumps. There's acrobatics. Acrobatics

557
00:30:15,920 --> 00:30:18,400
Speaker 6: are a big part of it, and I missed doing

558
00:30:18,400 --> 00:30:21,160
Speaker 6: more acrobatics from when I was a baby gymnast. So

559
00:30:21,240 --> 00:30:24,400
Speaker 6: I was really into it for the movement and the

560
00:30:24,440 --> 00:30:27,800
Speaker 6: workout of it, and not as much the whole cultural thing.

561
00:30:28,440 --> 00:30:30,760
Speaker 6: It got it, but as I came to find out,

562
00:30:30,920 --> 00:30:33,560
Speaker 6: you kind of have to get into the cultural element

563
00:30:33,600 --> 00:30:36,160
Speaker 6: of it, and that is where it started to get

564
00:30:36,160 --> 00:30:37,000
Speaker 6: a little stressful.

565
00:30:37,280 --> 00:30:40,040
Speaker 1: Okay, So does the cultural element do you just mean,

566
00:30:40,160 --> 00:30:43,640
Speaker 1: like the community that you're in you have to become

567
00:30:43,680 --> 00:30:46,320
Speaker 1: more tight netwith and kind of start spending a lot

568
00:30:46,360 --> 00:30:48,280
Speaker 1: of time with. Is that what you're you mean?

569
00:30:48,720 --> 00:30:51,920
Speaker 6: Yeah, start spending a lot of time there, Start helping

570
00:30:51,920 --> 00:30:55,000
Speaker 6: a lot with any events that they're putting on for

571
00:30:55,120 --> 00:30:57,640
Speaker 6: free iosim for free, of course.

572
00:30:58,280 --> 00:30:59,800
Speaker 5: And then that's an interesting thing too.

573
00:31:00,160 --> 00:31:02,480
Speaker 6: As soon as I showed up, I was coming from

574
00:31:02,920 --> 00:31:07,960
Speaker 6: having assisted kids classes. So the mestray of this studio said,

575
00:31:08,240 --> 00:31:10,800
Speaker 6: I'd love to have you assist my kids classes here,

576
00:31:11,200 --> 00:31:11,920
Speaker 6: and you don't have.

577
00:31:11,920 --> 00:31:13,040
Speaker 5: To pay membership.

578
00:31:13,240 --> 00:31:14,240
Speaker 1: Oh okay.

579
00:31:14,720 --> 00:31:18,080
Speaker 6: So from the beginning, I didn't have to pay the

580
00:31:18,080 --> 00:31:20,640
Speaker 6: one hundred dollars a month membership that other people did.

581
00:31:21,240 --> 00:31:23,120
Speaker 6: Once I got a uniform, I didn't have to pay

582
00:31:23,160 --> 00:31:27,440
Speaker 6: for a uniform. Once I eventually got an instrument, that

583
00:31:27,520 --> 00:31:29,800
Speaker 6: was that's kind of part of the cultural part that

584
00:31:29,840 --> 00:31:31,760
Speaker 6: you're like, They're like, Okay, you've been coming to a

585
00:31:31,760 --> 00:31:33,640
Speaker 6: lot of classes, but now you have to start learning

586
00:31:33,680 --> 00:31:34,160
Speaker 6: the music.

587
00:31:34,640 --> 00:31:37,280
Speaker 5: Now you have songs. Now you have to start learning

588
00:31:37,320 --> 00:31:37,960
Speaker 5: the language.

589
00:31:38,440 --> 00:31:39,280
Speaker 1: Oh wow.

590
00:31:39,920 --> 00:31:42,440
Speaker 6: And so I was being given all this access to

591
00:31:42,480 --> 00:31:46,240
Speaker 6: all this training for free. Yah, as I assisted the

592
00:31:46,320 --> 00:31:52,440
Speaker 6: kids classes, which wasn't even a super strict rule for

593
00:31:52,520 --> 00:31:54,440
Speaker 6: me because I was in college in a different state

594
00:31:54,680 --> 00:31:57,240
Speaker 6: and so I was only assisting on winter breaks or

595
00:31:57,280 --> 00:31:59,360
Speaker 6: on summer breaks, and I don't know what they were

596
00:31:59,360 --> 00:32:01,280
Speaker 6: doing the rest of the time. But it was like, no, no, no,

597
00:32:01,280 --> 00:32:03,239
Speaker 6: you always helped me. You helped me so much, so

598
00:32:03,640 --> 00:32:04,760
Speaker 6: I don't need anything from you.

599
00:32:05,120 --> 00:32:08,360
Speaker 1: Oh so then you kind of feel indebted. Yeah, I'm

600
00:32:08,400 --> 00:32:12,360
Speaker 1: assuming and like all of this again sounds fine, Like

601
00:32:12,520 --> 00:32:15,600
Speaker 1: if you want to learn and you want to it

602
00:32:15,640 --> 00:32:18,960
Speaker 1: sounds great. I'm sure there's people who want nothing more

603
00:32:19,040 --> 00:32:22,560
Speaker 1: than to do these things. Ye when did it start

604
00:32:22,640 --> 00:32:27,000
Speaker 1: getting like a little bit ugly for you? And who

605
00:32:27,360 --> 00:32:30,720
Speaker 1: was responsible for that turn?

606
00:32:31,280 --> 00:32:34,560
Speaker 6: Yeah, I would say it's once I wasn't a beginner anymore.

607
00:32:34,720 --> 00:32:38,800
Speaker 5: There are ahions of belts.

608
00:32:38,960 --> 00:32:42,400
Speaker 6: There's like ten belts before you're at a teaching level.

609
00:32:43,600 --> 00:32:46,880
Speaker 6: But they were also letting me surpass that rule to

610
00:32:47,040 --> 00:32:51,400
Speaker 6: teach kids because I was willing. But I think it's

611
00:32:51,520 --> 00:32:54,440
Speaker 6: five or six years and the belts are about a year,

612
00:32:54,480 --> 00:32:56,440
Speaker 6: So five or six years of this until I wasn't

613
00:32:56,440 --> 00:33:00,920
Speaker 6: a beginner anymore, And that's when it started feeling a

614
00:33:00,960 --> 00:33:03,360
Speaker 6: little more like you really should be here to do

615
00:33:03,400 --> 00:33:06,920
Speaker 6: the music, you really should be helping out with X,

616
00:33:07,040 --> 00:33:12,280
Speaker 6: Y and Z, and just not letting me treat it

617
00:33:12,360 --> 00:33:14,920
Speaker 6: quite as fun anymore. And also I had gone from

618
00:33:15,560 --> 00:33:20,720
Speaker 6: a college student to a graduated adult, right right, Yeah,

619
00:33:20,800 --> 00:33:23,480
Speaker 6: so like growing pains for me as well of like, oh,

620
00:33:23,520 --> 00:33:26,040
Speaker 6: I was just here being like the silly, silly little

621
00:33:26,080 --> 00:33:30,080
Speaker 6: one who likes to do flips, and then more expectations

622
00:33:30,080 --> 00:33:33,960
Speaker 6: started being placed on me. But where it really shifted

623
00:33:34,360 --> 00:33:39,040
Speaker 6: was the mestre, who was so sweet I saw as

624
00:33:39,080 --> 00:33:42,720
Speaker 6: a mentor figure for many years. I used to get

625
00:33:42,720 --> 00:33:44,200
Speaker 6: a lot of panic attacks, so I would have panic

626
00:33:44,200 --> 00:33:47,520
Speaker 6: attacks during class, and he was like supportive of that.

627
00:33:47,600 --> 00:33:48,520
Speaker 5: He's like, take your time.

628
00:33:49,440 --> 00:33:52,640
Speaker 6: But he started inviting me to private training on Sundays,

629
00:33:52,920 --> 00:33:56,680
Speaker 6: which there are no other classes on Sundays, so it

630
00:33:56,720 --> 00:33:59,080
Speaker 6: would just be me and him and we would train.

631
00:33:59,440 --> 00:34:01,720
Speaker 6: And we had had masks gone for a while because

632
00:34:01,760 --> 00:34:04,640
Speaker 6: this is like early COVID or late COVID, I guess,

633
00:34:04,640 --> 00:34:08,520
Speaker 6: because we were training, and then then we started taking

634
00:34:08,520 --> 00:34:11,400
Speaker 6: our masks off in those private sessions, even though we

635
00:34:11,400 --> 00:34:15,239
Speaker 6: were still wearing masks in the rest of this larger classes.

636
00:34:16,320 --> 00:34:19,080
Speaker 6: And I would ask, you know, why no one else

637
00:34:19,160 --> 00:34:20,799
Speaker 6: was training on Sundays and he was like, well, I

638
00:34:20,800 --> 00:34:22,239
Speaker 6: invite other people, but they don't.

639
00:34:22,719 --> 00:34:24,200
Speaker 5: They don't want to come because it's too hard.

640
00:34:24,960 --> 00:34:29,000
Speaker 1: But he probably wasn't inviting other people. I'm assuming I

641
00:34:29,080 --> 00:34:31,799
Speaker 1: know there was at least one other person. Was it

642
00:34:31,880 --> 00:34:33,360
Speaker 1: also a woman?

643
00:34:33,840 --> 00:34:35,280
Speaker 5: It was also a woman?

644
00:34:35,840 --> 00:34:36,360
Speaker 1: Interesting?

645
00:34:37,080 --> 00:34:42,080
Speaker 6: Yeah, And then I got an injury, so he started

646
00:34:42,120 --> 00:34:46,200
Speaker 6: offering massages to ease this pain. So I was having

647
00:34:46,280 --> 00:34:49,640
Speaker 6: really bad back pain and it was lower back. So

648
00:34:49,880 --> 00:34:54,040
Speaker 6: at first the massages were lower back, almost upper glutes,

649
00:34:54,400 --> 00:34:57,879
Speaker 6: and I'm like, well, that makes sense, yeah, because that's

650
00:34:57,920 --> 00:35:01,600
Speaker 6: where the pain is, yep. And then it moved to

651
00:35:02,360 --> 00:35:06,000
Speaker 6: like hips and inner thighs. And this is over the

652
00:35:06,000 --> 00:35:09,000
Speaker 6: course of a few months. Like I wasn't going every Sunday,

653
00:35:10,239 --> 00:35:14,200
Speaker 6: but the last time I went there was some touching

654
00:35:14,239 --> 00:35:17,239
Speaker 6: in an area that there shouldn't have been, and I

655
00:35:17,400 --> 00:35:20,360
Speaker 6: was feeling very awkward as I left, and he said

656
00:35:20,360 --> 00:35:22,319
Speaker 6: something like thanks, I needed that.

657
00:35:22,360 --> 00:35:24,240
Speaker 1: Today, Oh my god.

658
00:35:24,920 --> 00:35:27,880
Speaker 6: And I said, I thought you already trained today, and

659
00:35:27,920 --> 00:35:30,680
Speaker 6: he went, uh, yeah.

660
00:35:29,880 --> 00:35:36,200
Speaker 1: Wow, I'm so sorry. That's such a mind fuck, especially

661
00:35:36,239 --> 00:35:40,480
Speaker 1: when you think about the it's like power dynamic I

662
00:35:40,480 --> 00:35:43,400
Speaker 1: feel like is so overused. But I mean this is

663
00:35:43,480 --> 00:35:48,319
Speaker 1: like a sense of sorts, you know. I mean this

664
00:35:47,480 --> 00:35:51,560
Speaker 1: is this is a really confusing situation to be in,

665
00:35:52,239 --> 00:35:56,520
Speaker 1: and then that happens. I can't even imagine how upside

666
00:35:56,560 --> 00:35:58,360
Speaker 1: down that must have made you feel.

667
00:35:58,680 --> 00:36:02,400
Speaker 6: Very upside down. And I know I said in my

668
00:36:03,080 --> 00:36:06,640
Speaker 6: texts to your producer, the language.

669
00:36:06,200 --> 00:36:07,399
Speaker 5: Barrier played a big role.

670
00:36:07,960 --> 00:36:08,520
Speaker 1: Interesting.

671
00:36:08,719 --> 00:36:12,640
Speaker 6: I was never as vocal or like yeah, outspoken, or

672
00:36:12,719 --> 00:36:16,279
Speaker 6: silly or jokey as I am in normal life, right

673
00:36:16,360 --> 00:36:20,000
Speaker 6: because he just wouldn't always understand he had been here

674
00:36:20,040 --> 00:36:23,719
Speaker 6: for fifteen years, he could speak English, but is also like, hey,

675
00:36:23,760 --> 00:36:26,799
Speaker 6: we're only here to talk about the sport. There was

676
00:36:26,880 --> 00:36:29,440
Speaker 6: just kind of like things that I felt like I

677
00:36:29,520 --> 00:36:30,960
Speaker 6: was allowed to talk about or not.

678
00:36:31,560 --> 00:36:34,120
Speaker 1: Yeah, it sounds like there's like a like a formality

679
00:36:34,400 --> 00:36:36,520
Speaker 1: about it too, almost a.

680
00:36:36,440 --> 00:36:37,440
Speaker 5: Lot, And I love that.

681
00:36:37,560 --> 00:36:41,520
Speaker 6: At first, the discipline, it's like, wow, I'm very add

682
00:36:41,640 --> 00:36:43,640
Speaker 6: I'm very bad at standing still, and now I really

683
00:36:43,640 --> 00:36:46,040
Speaker 6: have to stand still for like two hours and clap

684
00:36:46,080 --> 00:36:47,399
Speaker 6: and sing.

685
00:36:47,000 --> 00:36:52,080
Speaker 1: Yeah yeah oh. I could see myself getting exactly to

686
00:36:52,920 --> 00:36:56,719
Speaker 1: where I was in that exact same situation. That is

687
00:36:57,200 --> 00:37:02,320
Speaker 1: absolutely terrifying. What what did you do next?

688
00:37:02,920 --> 00:37:06,400
Speaker 6: I don't remember exactly what order this happened in, but

689
00:37:06,440 --> 00:37:09,000
Speaker 6: I was I know, I was getting a tattoo and

690
00:37:09,239 --> 00:37:11,600
Speaker 6: I was talking it up with the artist, and for

691
00:37:11,640 --> 00:37:14,320
Speaker 6: some reason, I said that maybe I was talking about

692
00:37:14,400 --> 00:37:17,480
Speaker 6: my injury, and I was like, but he's been giving

693
00:37:17,480 --> 00:37:20,279
Speaker 6: me some massages and it's been helping, and she just

694
00:37:20,320 --> 00:37:22,640
Speaker 6: like stopped tattooing for a second and was like, that

695
00:37:22,680 --> 00:37:25,359
Speaker 6: doesn't sound normal. So I went home and I made

696
00:37:26,280 --> 00:37:28,799
Speaker 6: a pros and cons list, and it was like, what

697
00:37:28,960 --> 00:37:31,560
Speaker 6: supports that this did happen? And what supports that this

698
00:37:31,640 --> 00:37:34,799
Speaker 6: maybe didn't happen the way that I'm perceiving it, And

699
00:37:34,840 --> 00:37:36,600
Speaker 6: the pros were just so much longer.

700
00:37:36,960 --> 00:37:37,520
Speaker 4: Wow.

701
00:37:38,200 --> 00:37:41,800
Speaker 1: So it was like an innocent remark from a tattoo

702
00:37:41,920 --> 00:37:47,920
Speaker 1: artist that kind of made this whole, very structured ideology

703
00:37:47,960 --> 00:37:50,879
Speaker 1: crumble in your mind again, Like I don't want him

704
00:37:51,080 --> 00:37:54,880
Speaker 1: to make the whole system bad, because obviously it's not.

705
00:37:55,000 --> 00:37:58,400
Speaker 1: It's a beautiful art form for many people, but his

706
00:37:59,200 --> 00:38:02,160
Speaker 1: specific some of abuse on you that obviously he was

707
00:38:02,200 --> 00:38:06,600
Speaker 1: playing the long game for like months of massage without

708
00:38:06,640 --> 00:38:11,120
Speaker 1: ever making it weird, and then suddenly doing that is

709
00:38:11,160 --> 00:38:14,120
Speaker 1: like long game psychopathic behavior.

710
00:38:14,680 --> 00:38:15,000
Speaker 5: It was.

711
00:38:15,120 --> 00:38:19,320
Speaker 6: It was very, very long, and you know, I started

712
00:38:19,320 --> 00:38:24,560
Speaker 6: distancing myself. I actually taught was the sole teacher at

713
00:38:24,600 --> 00:38:28,320
Speaker 6: camp that summer that that I had first been introduced

714
00:38:28,320 --> 00:38:29,240
Speaker 6: to kapawaa At.

715
00:38:29,320 --> 00:38:32,239
Speaker 5: I became the lead teacher that summer. But that was

716
00:38:32,280 --> 00:38:32,919
Speaker 5: all I was doing.

717
00:38:33,000 --> 00:38:38,200
Speaker 6: I wasn't uh interacting with the academy itself. And then

718
00:38:38,520 --> 00:38:40,960
Speaker 6: I remember I told them one day after the session

719
00:38:40,960 --> 00:38:43,760
Speaker 6: had ended that I wasn't going to come back for

720
00:38:43,840 --> 00:38:44,280
Speaker 6: a while.

721
00:38:44,680 --> 00:38:46,520
Speaker 5: I was like, I need to take a big long break,

722
00:38:47,040 --> 00:38:47,600
Speaker 5: But I said I.

723
00:38:47,520 --> 00:38:50,359
Speaker 6: Would come back for the kids to get their next

724
00:38:50,360 --> 00:38:53,680
Speaker 6: belt because I had been helping those kids for two

725
00:38:53,760 --> 00:38:56,920
Speaker 6: years and I wanted to show face for them. And

726
00:38:56,960 --> 00:38:59,279
Speaker 6: that was the last time I did anything at that

727
00:39:00,040 --> 00:39:01,080
Speaker 6: Do you wow?

728
00:39:01,880 --> 00:39:05,640
Speaker 1: Is the power dynamic a common thing between leaders and

729
00:39:05,719 --> 00:39:07,920
Speaker 1: female students of this.

730
00:39:08,280 --> 00:39:11,959
Speaker 6: Yes, And this guy in particular talks a big game

731
00:39:12,000 --> 00:39:16,719
Speaker 6: about how he respects women. He has a wife, an

732
00:39:16,760 --> 00:39:21,360
Speaker 6: American wife, and their like marriage issues were kind of

733
00:39:21,400 --> 00:39:25,200
Speaker 6: weirdly being talked about among the academy for a while,

734
00:39:25,239 --> 00:39:27,440
Speaker 6: so I also had that context of like he is

735
00:39:27,480 --> 00:39:28,840
Speaker 6: having problems with his wife.

736
00:39:29,040 --> 00:39:31,239
Speaker 1: Oh my god, so toxic.

737
00:39:32,760 --> 00:39:38,239
Speaker 6: Or definitely in Brazil, it's a problem and they talk

738
00:39:38,320 --> 00:39:42,520
Speaker 6: about it. And even in the year before this went

739
00:39:42,560 --> 00:39:47,799
Speaker 6: down for me, my Mestray denounced that some Brazilian Master

740
00:39:47,840 --> 00:39:49,600
Speaker 6: rays were exposed as pedophilic.

741
00:39:50,040 --> 00:39:54,960
Speaker 1: Oh shit, fuck, can anything just be nice?

742
00:39:55,640 --> 00:39:56,040
Speaker 3: Yeah?

743
00:39:56,760 --> 00:40:03,000
Speaker 1: Can any system just be cool? That would be great? Wow. Okay,

744
00:40:03,200 --> 00:40:07,239
Speaker 1: so this is a widespread problem that's coming to light.

745
00:40:07,719 --> 00:40:11,040
Speaker 6: Yeah, it only came to the US in the seventies,

746
00:40:11,080 --> 00:40:16,600
Speaker 6: I believe, so not super old. I also, very early on,

747
00:40:16,680 --> 00:40:19,440
Speaker 6: had a weird experience with I knew that, like, maybe

748
00:40:19,480 --> 00:40:22,920
Speaker 6: outside of my studio I could encounter bigger problems, but

749
00:40:22,960 --> 00:40:26,359
Speaker 6: I thought my studio was very safe because when I

750
00:40:26,480 --> 00:40:27,880
Speaker 6: was at college.

751
00:40:27,600 --> 00:40:29,120
Speaker 5: I was like, I really like this thing. I want

752
00:40:29,160 --> 00:40:29,800
Speaker 5: to keep training.

753
00:40:30,680 --> 00:40:33,719
Speaker 6: And after just a few weeks that Mestrey pulled me

754
00:40:33,719 --> 00:40:35,399
Speaker 6: aside and was like, so, you know, if you want

755
00:40:35,440 --> 00:40:37,600
Speaker 6: to be part of my academy, I have a pair

756
00:40:37,600 --> 00:40:38,640
Speaker 6: of pants in your size.

757
00:40:39,160 --> 00:40:40,560
Speaker 1: Oh wow.

758
00:40:41,080 --> 00:40:42,759
Speaker 6: And I was like, what do you mean, because I

759
00:40:42,760 --> 00:40:46,920
Speaker 6: didn't know yet that there's this like allegiances. You have

760
00:40:47,000 --> 00:40:50,920
Speaker 6: to choose your teacher, and I said no one. I

761
00:40:50,960 --> 00:40:54,840
Speaker 6: never went back there, but now my my old roommate

762
00:40:54,920 --> 00:40:59,080
Speaker 6: moved away and decided in her new city to start training,

763
00:40:59,080 --> 00:41:02,200
Speaker 6: and she also so that super stressed between like two

764
00:41:02,239 --> 00:41:05,279
Speaker 6: academies that were being very weird about like, well, which

765
00:41:05,320 --> 00:41:05,840
Speaker 6: is your home?

766
00:41:06,280 --> 00:41:07,200
Speaker 1: Oh my god?

767
00:41:07,920 --> 00:41:10,360
Speaker 6: Okay he called me and was like, oh my god,

768
00:41:10,440 --> 00:41:12,920
Speaker 6: one mester saw me in the other studios uniform.

769
00:41:12,920 --> 00:41:14,320
Speaker 5: I think I have to tell them now.

770
00:41:15,080 --> 00:41:19,840
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean it shouldn't be that stressful to practice

771
00:41:20,280 --> 00:41:24,520
Speaker 1: a martial art, correct, I mean you know, like I

772
00:41:24,520 --> 00:41:28,879
Speaker 1: think that's a red flag. And I'm wondering, I mean,

773
00:41:29,440 --> 00:41:32,640
Speaker 1: you made this pros and cons list? What else did

774
00:41:32,719 --> 00:41:34,680
Speaker 1: you do to help you get out of this? Because

775
00:41:34,760 --> 00:41:36,120
Speaker 1: how how many years had passed?

776
00:41:36,160 --> 00:41:36,319
Speaker 3: Now?

777
00:41:36,400 --> 00:41:38,640
Speaker 1: I'm I'm doing them up in my head? Is it ten?

778
00:41:38,840 --> 00:41:39,920
Speaker 1: Is it eight? Six?

779
00:41:40,080 --> 00:41:40,160
Speaker 3: Like?

780
00:41:40,280 --> 00:41:43,720
Speaker 1: How how many years had you spent in this group

781
00:41:45,000 --> 00:41:45,960
Speaker 1: since college?

782
00:41:46,160 --> 00:41:49,600
Speaker 6: Since since college twenty sixteen to twenty twenty two? It

783
00:41:49,640 --> 00:41:51,080
Speaker 6: was it was six or seven years?

784
00:41:51,280 --> 00:41:55,560
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, that's a long time. Yeah, it's a really

785
00:41:55,640 --> 00:42:01,120
Speaker 1: long time. So how do you unwind these new thought processes?

786
00:42:01,440 --> 00:42:06,799
Speaker 1: And I'm sure rigorous beliefs of like well, if I'm

787
00:42:06,800 --> 00:42:09,960
Speaker 1: not doing it, then I'm being lazy or I'm whatever.

788
00:42:10,040 --> 00:42:12,000
Speaker 1: I don't know what. Yeah, how did you?

789
00:42:12,040 --> 00:42:12,239
Speaker 3: Oh?

790
00:42:12,280 --> 00:42:13,120
Speaker 1: No, there was a lot of that.

791
00:42:13,239 --> 00:42:14,400
Speaker 5: There was definitely a lot of that.

792
00:42:15,480 --> 00:42:18,480
Speaker 6: So this probably this might not relate to a lot

793
00:42:18,480 --> 00:42:20,520
Speaker 6: of people, but it will relate to a big group

794
00:42:20,560 --> 00:42:26,319
Speaker 6: of people. Me leaving like directly coincided with me getting sober. Interesting,

795
00:42:26,840 --> 00:42:30,359
Speaker 6: So I had to defog my brain and decide to stop.

796
00:42:30,120 --> 00:42:33,720
Speaker 5: All physical activity for a year. And I'm just getting

797
00:42:33,760 --> 00:42:34,440
Speaker 5: back into it.

798
00:42:34,840 --> 00:42:38,359
Speaker 1: Cool. So, so you were sober you mean from like

799
00:42:38,400 --> 00:42:43,480
Speaker 1: substances and exercising, are just sober from physical activity?

800
00:42:43,920 --> 00:42:47,520
Speaker 6: It was for substances, but then I quickly realized that

801
00:42:47,960 --> 00:42:49,600
Speaker 6: like physical activity was part of it.

802
00:42:50,040 --> 00:42:55,120
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah, so you you got your brain clear.

803
00:42:55,200 --> 00:42:58,920
Speaker 1: We actually do hear about that a lot, not even

804
00:42:59,160 --> 00:43:02,919
Speaker 1: so much on the podcast, just as from people who

805
00:43:02,960 --> 00:43:05,439
Speaker 1: email us and stuff that. Sobriety is a big part

806
00:43:05,560 --> 00:43:10,239
Speaker 1: of kind of clarity obviously, right, Like, yeah, you start

807
00:43:10,280 --> 00:43:13,120
Speaker 1: to see things more clearly. So that makes perfect sense

808
00:43:13,200 --> 00:43:17,560
Speaker 1: that you would have that experience. But I'm just curious,

809
00:43:17,600 --> 00:43:22,799
Speaker 1: like what the clarity brought you that made you have

810
00:43:22,960 --> 00:43:24,640
Speaker 1: the power to be like I'm not going to do

811
00:43:24,680 --> 00:43:27,560
Speaker 1: that anymore, even though you had for so long.

812
00:43:28,000 --> 00:43:33,840
Speaker 6: Yeah, a lot of like finding what my identity really

813
00:43:33,960 --> 00:43:36,080
Speaker 6: was without constantly escaping.

814
00:43:36,600 --> 00:43:38,800
Speaker 1: Yeah, Yeah, that took up a lot of time.

815
00:43:39,120 --> 00:43:42,120
Speaker 5: It took up a lot of time. So escaping. Yeah,

816
00:43:42,120 --> 00:43:44,160
Speaker 5: I was using drugs and alcohol to escape.

817
00:43:44,160 --> 00:43:46,880
Speaker 6: But also just like I'm gonna put on this uniform

818
00:43:46,880 --> 00:43:47,560
Speaker 6: and go to the space.

819
00:43:47,600 --> 00:43:51,120
Speaker 5: You also have nicknames. Oh she called a different name?

820
00:43:52,160 --> 00:43:56,640
Speaker 6: Yeah, yeah, just be someone else. Decide that it's more

821
00:43:56,680 --> 00:44:00,000
Speaker 6: important today to get this flip down than to like, oh,

822
00:44:00,040 --> 00:44:01,040
Speaker 6: make myself dinner.

823
00:44:01,440 --> 00:44:02,600
Speaker 1: Right right?

824
00:44:03,200 --> 00:44:06,839
Speaker 6: Yeah, So starting to focus on Yeah have I not

825
00:44:06,920 --> 00:44:09,279
Speaker 6: have I trained today? And have I improved or learned

826
00:44:09,320 --> 00:44:11,920
Speaker 6: anything today? But have I eaten a drink enough water today?

827
00:44:12,239 --> 00:44:12,799
Speaker 5: Wow?

828
00:44:13,680 --> 00:44:16,799
Speaker 1: For somebody who was a dancer and an athlete and

829
00:44:16,840 --> 00:44:22,160
Speaker 1: a gymnast, I'm speaking about you, not myself, those are

830
00:44:22,360 --> 00:44:26,680
Speaker 1: really hard. I mean exercise addiction as its own cult.

831
00:44:27,960 --> 00:44:31,279
Speaker 1: Movement addiction is its own cult, you know, in a

832
00:44:31,520 --> 00:44:37,120
Speaker 1: very broad sense. So you're you're deconstructing and like, what's

833
00:44:37,200 --> 00:44:41,279
Speaker 1: the word I'm looking for, detoxifying from a lot of

834
00:44:41,320 --> 00:44:45,319
Speaker 1: bullshit all at the same time. And what were you

835
00:44:45,440 --> 00:44:49,000
Speaker 1: just journaling your ass off and like talking to friends

836
00:44:49,080 --> 00:44:53,759
Speaker 1: therapy because you can't you can't work it out? What

837
00:44:54,080 --> 00:44:54,680
Speaker 1: were you doing?

838
00:44:55,560 --> 00:45:01,960
Speaker 6: Definitely talking to other people who were in substance abuse recovery, because.

839
00:45:02,239 --> 00:45:07,000
Speaker 5: A lot of them were not athletes, even.

840
00:45:06,840 --> 00:45:10,839
Speaker 6: Just just having friends that weren't wrapped up in it

841
00:45:10,880 --> 00:45:14,000
Speaker 6: like I was. And then also, even though this had

842
00:45:14,040 --> 00:45:16,600
Speaker 6: already been going on for a few years, teaching kids,

843
00:45:17,760 --> 00:45:21,319
Speaker 6: because I became the person telling them like, it doesn't

844
00:45:21,320 --> 00:45:23,160
Speaker 6: matter if you don't have a split, if you're if

845
00:45:23,200 --> 00:45:24,320
Speaker 6: you're tired, take a break.

846
00:45:25,760 --> 00:45:29,040
Speaker 1: So what what do you teach kids now? Currently?

847
00:45:29,080 --> 00:45:33,680
Speaker 6: I just do summer camps. But it was like circus arts,

848
00:45:33,800 --> 00:45:41,000
Speaker 6: creative movement. Nothing that has like an overarching vocabulary yeah yeah,

849
00:45:41,600 --> 00:45:43,920
Speaker 6: and standards to it where you have to look a

850
00:45:43,920 --> 00:45:44,439
Speaker 6: certain way.

851
00:45:44,800 --> 00:45:49,120
Speaker 1: I'm really impressed. That's a lot of stuff to deconstruct.

852
00:45:49,360 --> 00:45:55,040
Speaker 1: And what I mean, what has happened to this teacher?

853
00:45:55,280 --> 00:45:56,160
Speaker 1: Is he still teaching?

854
00:45:56,480 --> 00:45:58,160
Speaker 5: He moved back to Brazil.

855
00:45:58,320 --> 00:46:01,279
Speaker 1: I wonder if his life was catching up with him.

856
00:46:01,360 --> 00:46:02,960
Speaker 1: Do you think that that might be part of it?

857
00:46:03,200 --> 00:46:03,719
Speaker 5: Possibly?

858
00:46:05,200 --> 00:46:09,759
Speaker 6: I actually ran into him in home depot about a

859
00:46:09,800 --> 00:46:15,680
Speaker 6: week before he moved back, and he came came back

860
00:46:15,719 --> 00:46:17,680
Speaker 6: around and found me and asked if we could talk,

861
00:46:18,960 --> 00:46:22,000
Speaker 6: and wasn't very explicit about anything, but he had found

862
00:46:22,000 --> 00:46:24,279
Speaker 6: out through someone else. I did not tell him like,

863
00:46:24,560 --> 00:46:25,719
Speaker 6: this is what happened, and this.

864
00:46:25,680 --> 00:46:26,440
Speaker 5: Is why I'm leaving.

865
00:46:26,760 --> 00:46:30,319
Speaker 6: Yeah, but word got around. People apologized for me for

866
00:46:30,400 --> 00:46:35,920
Speaker 6: maybe telling my story about my permission, but he was

867
00:46:35,960 --> 00:46:39,040
Speaker 6: saying that this has been such a learning experience and

868
00:46:39,160 --> 00:46:41,160
Speaker 6: I want you to know that I've learned from it

869
00:46:41,200 --> 00:46:42,520
Speaker 6: and I'll never do it again.

870
00:46:42,680 --> 00:46:45,400
Speaker 1: And like you if you've seen, this isn't a home depot.

871
00:46:45,640 --> 00:46:48,040
Speaker 5: This isn't a home depot. This is by the light bulbs.

872
00:46:48,280 --> 00:46:50,600
Speaker 1: Okay, okay, okay.

873
00:46:50,600 --> 00:46:52,040
Speaker 5: I just want to get my succulents.

874
00:46:52,719 --> 00:46:56,040
Speaker 1: You're like, please, God, I just need a board and

875
00:46:56,200 --> 00:46:56,799
Speaker 1: to go home.

876
00:46:57,440 --> 00:46:58,000
Speaker 6: Yeah.

877
00:46:58,040 --> 00:47:00,680
Speaker 1: Well, I'm glad that you're not going to run into

878
00:47:00,760 --> 00:47:05,120
Speaker 1: him anymore. I'm glad that he's back in Brazil. What

879
00:47:05,480 --> 00:47:10,120
Speaker 1: are you thinking moving forward? And how can people avoid

880
00:47:10,880 --> 00:47:12,800
Speaker 1: going through the same thing that you went through?

881
00:47:13,200 --> 00:47:17,799
Speaker 6: I would say always having friends or support system outside

882
00:47:18,000 --> 00:47:24,640
Speaker 6: of the activity or the group that is feeling too controlling. Yeah,

883
00:47:24,840 --> 00:47:27,920
Speaker 6: and at least in my case, like not accepting too

884
00:47:27,920 --> 00:47:28,680
Speaker 6: many favors.

885
00:47:29,239 --> 00:47:29,680
Speaker 5: Yeah.

886
00:47:30,000 --> 00:47:32,480
Speaker 6: Yeah, getting into that place where I did feel indebted

887
00:47:32,719 --> 00:47:34,920
Speaker 6: and felt like I was he was taking me on

888
00:47:34,960 --> 00:47:37,360
Speaker 6: as a prodigy and I was special and I should

889
00:47:37,560 --> 00:47:39,680
Speaker 6: raise rise to his expectations.

890
00:47:40,320 --> 00:47:44,799
Speaker 1: Those are two amazing points, and it reminds me of

891
00:47:45,040 --> 00:47:48,000
Speaker 1: the Nike episode we did with a runner who was

892
00:47:48,040 --> 00:47:51,640
Speaker 1: sent to the Nike camp and her coach was abusive,

893
00:47:51,880 --> 00:47:56,520
Speaker 1: and just those relationships that we can get into that

894
00:47:56,640 --> 00:48:01,120
Speaker 1: are very socially acceptable. The runner's name is Kara Goucher

895
00:48:01,560 --> 00:48:05,840
Speaker 1: and it was Alberto Salazar from the Nike organ Project.

896
00:48:05,920 --> 00:48:08,640
Speaker 1: Just for anyone who's curious, you know some of the

897
00:48:08,719 --> 00:48:13,560
Speaker 1: more wacky quote unquote cults where you just disappear and

898
00:48:13,719 --> 00:48:16,200
Speaker 1: suddenly you're like naked in a field with a bunch

899
00:48:16,280 --> 00:48:19,080
Speaker 1: of people. Society is like you're in a cult. But

900
00:48:19,239 --> 00:48:22,800
Speaker 1: if you're running for Nike or you're practicing this really

901
00:48:22,840 --> 00:48:29,319
Speaker 1: cool art that people respect, it's harder to recognize that

902
00:48:29,600 --> 00:48:33,480
Speaker 1: you could be in an unhealthy dynamic. So those are

903
00:48:34,000 --> 00:48:37,200
Speaker 1: wonderful points. I'm so grateful that you shared your story

904
00:48:37,480 --> 00:48:42,640
Speaker 1: and so impressed with how how you deconstructed and it

905
00:48:42,640 --> 00:48:47,279
Speaker 1: looks like you're making beautiful things and going to live

906
00:48:47,320 --> 00:48:49,279
Speaker 1: a beautiful life, and I'm so excited for you.

907
00:48:49,719 --> 00:48:50,160
Speaker 5: Thank you.

908
00:48:50,719 --> 00:48:52,799
Speaker 6: I did want to say that it was that that

909
00:48:52,960 --> 00:48:55,960
Speaker 6: Nike episode that was really a turning point for me

910
00:48:56,040 --> 00:48:58,360
Speaker 6: of like, this is a story I could share.

911
00:48:59,120 --> 00:49:02,160
Speaker 1: It's so important to stay on top of the difference

912
00:49:02,160 --> 00:49:07,319
Speaker 1: in sports between being abused and being driven. It's so hard, so.

913
00:49:07,400 --> 00:49:11,120
Speaker 5: It should be coming from you and not from the

914
00:49:11,120 --> 00:49:12,040
Speaker 5: person training you.

915
00:49:12,360 --> 00:49:18,040
Speaker 1: Well, Claire, you've really been vulnerable and I couldn't appreciate

916
00:49:18,080 --> 00:49:21,800
Speaker 1: it more. Just excited to see what the future holds

917
00:49:21,800 --> 00:49:24,480
Speaker 1: for you. And thank you so much for agreeing to

918
00:49:24,520 --> 00:49:25,239
Speaker 1: speak to us.

919
00:49:25,600 --> 00:49:27,799
Speaker 6: Thank you so much. I do want to add one

920
00:49:27,800 --> 00:49:30,919
Speaker 6: more thing is that the academy is still running and

921
00:49:31,080 --> 00:49:31,640
Speaker 6: it is being.

922
00:49:31,640 --> 00:49:33,759
Speaker 5: Run by a black American woman.

923
00:49:33,840 --> 00:49:38,160
Speaker 6: Now, oh so it's probably a lovely change, wonderful.

924
00:49:38,400 --> 00:49:40,440
Speaker 5: Yeah, I just don't really want to go back to

925
00:49:41,120 --> 00:49:41,680
Speaker 5: check it out.

926
00:49:42,400 --> 00:49:43,240
Speaker 1: Yeah. Probably.

927
00:49:43,280 --> 00:49:45,879
Speaker 5: I'm happy that that's where they're at right now.

928
00:49:46,320 --> 00:49:49,640
Speaker 1: Good, good, Okay, I'm glad to hear that, glad to

929
00:49:49,680 --> 00:49:52,719
Speaker 1: hear that he is no longer living near you or

930
00:49:52,760 --> 00:49:57,759
Speaker 1: your home depot. Yeah. Just thank you so much and

931
00:49:58,120 --> 00:49:59,120
Speaker 1: we'll be in touch.

932
00:49:59,320 --> 00:49:59,960
Speaker 5: Thank you so much.

933
00:50:00,040 --> 00:50:03,960
Speaker 1: M Wow, thank you so much for listening and first

934
00:50:03,960 --> 00:50:08,279
Speaker 1: sending in all of these wonderful stories. Steve, you have

935
00:50:08,320 --> 00:50:11,760
Speaker 1: the hotline number if anybody else wants to jump in

936
00:50:11,840 --> 00:50:12,920
Speaker 1: and talk to us.

937
00:50:13,160 --> 00:50:16,560
Speaker 4: YEP, I go through them myself, so if you want

938
00:50:16,560 --> 00:50:19,680
Speaker 4: to call or text three four seven eight six eight

939
00:50:19,880 --> 00:50:22,919
Speaker 4: seven eight seven eight or three four seven eight six

940
00:50:23,239 --> 00:50:25,560
Speaker 4: trust I'll have eyes on it.

941
00:50:25,719 --> 00:50:29,799
Speaker 1: Thank y'all so much for listening as always, can't wait

942
00:50:29,880 --> 00:50:33,200
Speaker 1: to see you again next week, and remember to follow

943
00:50:33,239 --> 00:50:36,480
Speaker 1: your gut, watch out for red flags, and never ever

944
00:50:36,800 --> 00:50:37,960
Speaker 1: trust me by.

945
00:50:42,000 --> 00:50:44,680
Speaker 2: Trust Me as produced by Kirsten Woodward, Gabby Rapp and

946
00:50:44,760 --> 00:50:45,600
Speaker 2: Steve Delemator.

947
00:50:45,680 --> 00:50:47,640
Speaker 1: The special thanks to Stacy Para.

948
00:50:47,560 --> 00:50:50,000
Speaker 2: And our theme song was composed by Holly amber Church.

949
00:50:50,200 --> 00:50:53,080
Speaker 1: You can find us on Instagram at trust Me Podcast,

950
00:50:53,280 --> 00:50:56,640
Speaker 1: Twitter at trust Me Cult pod, or on TikTok at

951
00:50:56,680 --> 00:50:58,360
Speaker 1: trust Me Cult Podcast.

952
00:50:58,520 --> 00:51:01,879
Speaker 2: I'm Ula Lola on Instagram and Ola Lola on Twitter.

953
00:51:01,600 --> 00:51:05,160
Speaker 1: And I am Megan Elizabeth eleven on Instagram and Abraham

954
00:51:05,320 --> 00:51:06,400
Speaker 1: Hicks on Twitter.

955
00:51:06,560 --> 00:51:08,839
Speaker 2: Remember to rate and review and spread the word