1 00:00:05,160 --> 00:00:10,880 Speaker 1: Murder is murder is murder, right? I disagree because in 2 00:00:10,880 --> 00:00:14,680 Speaker 1: this case, a young woman, a mom, twenty seven year 3 00:00:14,680 --> 00:00:18,479 Speaker 1: old Brandy Peters, is murdered, no doubt about it, but 4 00:00:18,680 --> 00:00:24,000 Speaker 1: also murdered her three little children, twin girls aged six 5 00:00:24,520 --> 00:00:29,760 Speaker 1: and a baby boy just three years old. There were 6 00:00:29,840 --> 00:00:33,440 Speaker 1: many times in front of a jury I did not 7 00:00:34,000 --> 00:00:38,440 Speaker 1: know how I could get through testimony or an opening 8 00:00:38,520 --> 00:00:43,760 Speaker 1: or a closing without crying. I did it for a 9 00:00:43,760 --> 00:00:46,040 Speaker 1: few times. I would ask to leave the courtroom, would 10 00:00:46,040 --> 00:00:51,520 Speaker 1: take a recess to compose myself. But I gotta tell you, 11 00:00:52,320 --> 00:00:55,959 Speaker 1: this case is tough, but I want you to hear 12 00:00:56,000 --> 00:01:08,199 Speaker 1: the evidence. Nancy Gray's Crime Stories Crime Stories with Nancy Graith. 13 00:01:13,560 --> 00:01:16,840 Speaker 1: It's some news that shook this Tallahassee neighborhood. We had 14 00:01:16,840 --> 00:01:20,000 Speaker 1: a neighbor who called us out of concern, and we 15 00:01:20,120 --> 00:01:23,360 Speaker 1: responded to try and look around the house and so forth, 16 00:01:23,400 --> 00:01:27,160 Speaker 1: and that's when we discovered device a woman along with 17 00:01:27,280 --> 00:01:30,600 Speaker 1: her three kids, all found dead inside of their house 18 00:01:30,640 --> 00:01:33,360 Speaker 1: here on the nine hundred block of Shuttle Creek Run Road. 19 00:01:33,880 --> 00:01:37,080 Speaker 1: The mother and her kids, six year old, twin girls 20 00:01:37,120 --> 00:01:39,720 Speaker 1: and a three year old little boy, police say, are 21 00:01:39,720 --> 00:01:44,120 Speaker 1: now victims of foul play does appear to be violence involved. 22 00:01:44,440 --> 00:01:47,840 Speaker 1: David McCraney with the Tallahassee Police Department says what exactly 23 00:01:47,960 --> 00:01:51,000 Speaker 1: happened still remains a mystery. Police spent much of the 24 00:01:51,080 --> 00:01:54,040 Speaker 1: day collecting evidence to try to figure that out. As 25 00:01:54,080 --> 00:01:57,000 Speaker 1: we go into this scene, it's very expansive, a lot 26 00:01:57,080 --> 00:01:59,440 Speaker 1: of detail involved to make sure that we don't miss 27 00:01:59,440 --> 00:02:02,840 Speaker 1: anything or mistake. So things are a little slow right now. 28 00:02:03,240 --> 00:02:06,120 Speaker 1: The progress is being made. N craney says only the 29 00:02:06,160 --> 00:02:08,639 Speaker 1: four lived inside of the house. He says they're now 30 00:02:08,680 --> 00:02:12,080 Speaker 1: speaking with relatives and other acquaintances to find out what 31 00:02:12,160 --> 00:02:15,639 Speaker 1: other relationships the family may have had. Please say they're 32 00:02:15,639 --> 00:02:17,960 Speaker 1: now working with the State Attorney's office to gather the 33 00:02:18,000 --> 00:02:21,079 Speaker 1: evidence they need, but say maybe some time before they 34 00:02:21,120 --> 00:02:24,760 Speaker 1: figure out what happened. I can't get over it. Twins 35 00:02:25,080 --> 00:02:30,640 Speaker 1: aged six, Tamaya and Tenaya, Javante h three and mom 36 00:02:30,800 --> 00:02:38,400 Speaker 1: Brandy all dead. A gruesome crime scene that police investigators 37 00:02:38,760 --> 00:02:45,120 Speaker 1: CSI are still reeling from the memories. I mean, is 38 00:02:45,120 --> 00:02:47,399 Speaker 1: he grace? This is crime stories. Thank you for being 39 00:02:47,400 --> 00:02:51,640 Speaker 1: with us with me an all star panel. Jason Oceans, 40 00:02:52,000 --> 00:02:56,079 Speaker 1: veteran defense attorney, joining me from New York Stephen Lampley, detective, 41 00:02:56,120 --> 00:02:59,960 Speaker 1: author of Outside Your Door at Stephen Lampley dot Com. 42 00:03:00,600 --> 00:03:06,280 Speaker 1: Doctor Debbie Joffe ellis my Sparring partner, psychologist, adjunct professor, 43 00:03:06,280 --> 00:03:13,560 Speaker 1: Columbia University, a renowned medical examiner, doctor Chris Sperry, retired 44 00:03:13,680 --> 00:03:17,080 Speaker 1: Chief medical Examiner for the entire state of Georgia, and 45 00:03:17,240 --> 00:03:22,120 Speaker 1: no stranger to the courtroom and cross examination. But right 46 00:03:22,120 --> 00:03:27,720 Speaker 1: now to crime online dot Com investigative reporter Levi Page, Levi, this, 47 00:03:28,120 --> 00:03:31,520 Speaker 1: in my mind sounds like a scenario that you would 48 00:03:31,560 --> 00:03:35,320 Speaker 1: hear about in another country, a third world country, where 49 00:03:35,400 --> 00:03:41,200 Speaker 1: a whole family is just wiped out. It's overwhelming. Especially 50 00:03:41,520 --> 00:03:47,080 Speaker 1: what gets to me the twins, Tamaya Tanaya just six 51 00:03:47,360 --> 00:03:52,560 Speaker 1: years old and the little three year old all dead. 52 00:03:53,640 --> 00:03:56,200 Speaker 1: Tell me, let's just start at the beginning, Levi Page, 53 00:03:56,200 --> 00:03:59,280 Speaker 1: and tell me what led police to the location. So Nancy, 54 00:03:59,400 --> 00:04:04,000 Speaker 1: neighbor in this very quiet community in Tallahassee, Florida, found 55 00:04:04,120 --> 00:04:08,560 Speaker 1: blood coming out from the front door of a home 56 00:04:09,160 --> 00:04:13,600 Speaker 1: and they called nine and law enforcement responded to her. 57 00:04:13,840 --> 00:04:17,920 Speaker 1: A horrific scene. As you mentioned, blood splatterer was everywhere, 58 00:04:18,160 --> 00:04:23,919 Speaker 1: Bullet holes brittled this home, and there was a violent murder. 59 00:04:23,960 --> 00:04:28,760 Speaker 1: Thirty eight year old Brandy Peters was shot. Investigators also 60 00:04:28,839 --> 00:04:32,680 Speaker 1: believe she was beat with a large object, and her 61 00:04:32,760 --> 00:04:36,719 Speaker 1: three children were also found dead. Okay, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. 62 00:04:36,720 --> 00:04:39,120 Speaker 1: White You just told me something new I didn't know. Yes, 63 00:04:40,080 --> 00:04:43,680 Speaker 1: you're telling me there was shooting and bludgeting. Yes, she 64 00:04:43,800 --> 00:04:47,720 Speaker 1: was beat beat with a large object. Okay, that really 65 00:04:47,800 --> 00:04:53,680 Speaker 1: changes things for me. Motive death is extremely important. Let 66 00:04:53,720 --> 00:04:56,800 Speaker 1: me go to doctor Chris Sperry, former Chief Medical Examiner, 67 00:04:56,880 --> 00:05:00,840 Speaker 1: State of Georgia, because it's one thing. For instance, do 68 00:05:00,920 --> 00:05:05,080 Speaker 1: a home invasion and you want something whatever that may 69 00:05:05,120 --> 00:05:08,080 Speaker 1: be in that home, and you gun everybody down and 70 00:05:08,120 --> 00:05:12,440 Speaker 1: you high tell it. But it's a different scenario, and 71 00:05:12,880 --> 00:05:14,520 Speaker 1: I guess I'm gonna have to go to doctor Debbie 72 00:05:14,560 --> 00:05:19,760 Speaker 1: Joffee Ellis after Sperry, because it's it's a psychological element 73 00:05:20,160 --> 00:05:24,640 Speaker 1: when you have close contact. Is I've called it in 74 00:05:24,680 --> 00:05:27,760 Speaker 1: the past sweetheart killing. Not that there's anything sweet about 75 00:05:27,760 --> 00:05:31,000 Speaker 1: a murder, but there's an intimate contact when you're close 76 00:05:31,120 --> 00:05:34,880 Speaker 1: enough to your victim, you're two feet away from them, 77 00:05:34,920 --> 00:05:39,200 Speaker 1: that you are bludgeoning them or pushing them down. That's 78 00:05:39,240 --> 00:05:44,520 Speaker 1: a whole different mindset of killing and it leads me 79 00:05:44,720 --> 00:05:49,120 Speaker 1: to the killer. Doctor Chris Sperry, if someone is shot dead, 80 00:05:49,200 --> 00:05:52,600 Speaker 1: how do you also find bludgeoning evidence and what does 81 00:05:52,640 --> 00:05:55,919 Speaker 1: that mean to you? Well, we rarely find bludgeoning. You know. 82 00:05:56,040 --> 00:06:02,000 Speaker 1: Shooting is very quick, convenient expedience and takes care of business. 83 00:06:02,040 --> 00:06:06,279 Speaker 1: But bludgeoning somebody requires just as you said, close contact 84 00:06:07,000 --> 00:06:13,160 Speaker 1: and you know, the fear too that the victim may 85 00:06:13,360 --> 00:06:16,560 Speaker 1: overpower the assailant or there could be a plug struggle 86 00:06:16,720 --> 00:06:19,800 Speaker 1: something like that. To have bludget and combined with a 87 00:06:19,839 --> 00:06:25,320 Speaker 1: gunshot wound really strongly suggests to me that there's a 88 00:06:25,440 --> 00:06:28,279 Speaker 1: relationship between the two people sometimes of the type of 89 00:06:28,320 --> 00:06:34,040 Speaker 1: emotional bond that has gone awry and the perpetrator is 90 00:06:34,560 --> 00:06:39,599 Speaker 1: really going overboard excessively to hurt the victim and hurt 91 00:06:39,640 --> 00:06:42,440 Speaker 1: them badly and to make sure they are dead. You 92 00:06:42,480 --> 00:06:45,880 Speaker 1: know interesting that you said that because the mom in 93 00:06:45,960 --> 00:06:50,479 Speaker 1: this scenario, Brandy, was shot eight times. As a matter 94 00:06:50,520 --> 00:06:54,159 Speaker 1: of fact, take a listen to the medical examiner, doctor 95 00:06:54,240 --> 00:07:04,120 Speaker 1: Lisa Flanagan. Your head where that basically where I would 96 00:07:04,120 --> 00:07:12,080 Speaker 1: see found it, not the siderhead here. This is all 97 00:07:12,120 --> 00:07:17,880 Speaker 1: crushed in and fracture and the right as it goes. 98 00:07:19,160 --> 00:07:21,760 Speaker 1: These are diagrams of the right and left sides of 99 00:07:21,880 --> 00:07:27,080 Speaker 1: her head. The upper all the right, the right cider head. 100 00:07:27,160 --> 00:07:31,920 Speaker 1: There are several lacerations and this dagger also shows a 101 00:07:32,000 --> 00:07:36,200 Speaker 1: gust shot right here. Several lacerations and the brain was 102 00:07:36,240 --> 00:07:39,200 Speaker 1: actually exposed. How does that happen? Doctor Sperry, Well, from 103 00:07:39,280 --> 00:07:43,480 Speaker 1: multiple of very hard blows from a very very hard object, 104 00:07:44,040 --> 00:07:48,040 Speaker 1: skull is not only cracked, but it's crushed and um 105 00:07:48,440 --> 00:07:52,440 Speaker 1: the underlying brain is also crushed and disrupt disrupted. And 106 00:07:52,520 --> 00:07:56,720 Speaker 1: so with multiple overlapping blows like this, damage is so 107 00:07:56,840 --> 00:07:59,720 Speaker 1: great that the brain is exposed. And the brain is 108 00:07:59,800 --> 00:08:02,720 Speaker 1: very very soft too, so it doesn't take much to 109 00:08:02,720 --> 00:08:06,240 Speaker 1: start fragmenting the brain, but to get there is more 110 00:08:06,320 --> 00:08:10,080 Speaker 1: a lot more work. So there was multiple multiple blows 111 00:08:10,120 --> 00:08:12,920 Speaker 1: that were expanded on this for young lady's head. Okay, 112 00:08:13,080 --> 00:08:16,200 Speaker 1: listen to more of the medical examiner, doctor Lisa Flanagan 113 00:08:16,440 --> 00:08:21,840 Speaker 1: explaining about defensive wounds on mom Brandy. Can you imagine 114 00:08:22,080 --> 00:08:24,680 Speaker 1: the fight she put up to save her three children. 115 00:08:26,040 --> 00:08:35,960 Speaker 1: She had significant injuries on her hands. There there were 116 00:08:36,040 --> 00:08:40,440 Speaker 1: fractures two fingers on his side and a fracture of 117 00:08:40,440 --> 00:08:44,319 Speaker 1: her middle finger and the tip of her left little 118 00:08:44,360 --> 00:08:49,480 Speaker 1: finger was partially amputation. There were abrasions on the facts 119 00:08:50,120 --> 00:09:02,760 Speaker 1: of her fingers, and there's a skin terror cism. We 120 00:09:03,480 --> 00:09:07,160 Speaker 1: use the term offense type injuries because when someone is 121 00:09:07,200 --> 00:09:12,040 Speaker 1: fighting off an attacker and they're trying to protect their body, 122 00:09:11,640 --> 00:09:15,120 Speaker 1: they put their hands up or their put their arms. 123 00:09:15,280 --> 00:09:18,840 Speaker 1: Then in their afflifting, the soon is trying to protect 124 00:09:19,320 --> 00:09:23,880 Speaker 1: their body. What is it we will call to fense 125 00:09:23,920 --> 00:09:27,520 Speaker 1: type woles defensive wounds. What do we mean by that? 126 00:09:27,600 --> 00:09:30,719 Speaker 1: Let me go to Stephen Lampley, detective or they're outside 127 00:09:30,720 --> 00:09:36,640 Speaker 1: your door. What's your your interpretation of defensive wounds, Nancy. 128 00:09:36,720 --> 00:09:40,360 Speaker 1: It's anything that somebody would do to protect themselves or 129 00:09:40,400 --> 00:09:43,480 Speaker 1: their family. For instances, if an an life attack or 130 00:09:43,480 --> 00:09:45,840 Speaker 1: in a gun attack, they might put their hands up 131 00:09:45,880 --> 00:09:49,000 Speaker 1: an effort to deflect the blows or the knife, and 132 00:09:49,040 --> 00:09:51,560 Speaker 1: then you would receive wounds on the palm or the 133 00:09:51,640 --> 00:09:54,679 Speaker 1: underside of your arm. Things like that is what we're 134 00:09:54,720 --> 00:09:57,960 Speaker 1: looking for. Those are typically defensive wounds. It was so bad. 135 00:09:58,000 --> 00:09:59,760 Speaker 1: As a matter of fact, Jackie Howard here in this 136 00:10:00,320 --> 00:10:03,040 Speaker 1: with Dave Mack telling me one of her fingers was 137 00:10:03,080 --> 00:10:06,600 Speaker 1: actually gone to doctor Chris Sperry. I remember the first 138 00:10:06,640 --> 00:10:10,920 Speaker 1: time I ever heard the words defensive wounds. I was 139 00:10:10,920 --> 00:10:14,480 Speaker 1: in college and undergrad. I knew nothing about crime, you know. 140 00:10:14,600 --> 00:10:17,040 Speaker 1: I was just fat, dumb and happy living my life, 141 00:10:17,200 --> 00:10:19,440 Speaker 1: no idea about what was going on in the world. 142 00:10:19,840 --> 00:10:23,720 Speaker 1: And I remember hearing about a shooting and it must 143 00:10:23,720 --> 00:10:28,240 Speaker 1: have been in Valdosta, where where I went to college 144 00:10:28,240 --> 00:10:32,240 Speaker 1: for a little over a year, where a woman held 145 00:10:32,679 --> 00:10:37,199 Speaker 1: a hand up as someone came entered her home. She 146 00:10:37,240 --> 00:10:39,840 Speaker 1: was sitting on her bed, held her hand up, and 147 00:10:39,960 --> 00:10:42,040 Speaker 1: the bullet that would have hit her in the head 148 00:10:42,760 --> 00:10:44,840 Speaker 1: hit her in the hand and went through I think 149 00:10:44,840 --> 00:10:48,640 Speaker 1: her chin instead. A defensive wound. I remembered the first 150 00:10:48,679 --> 00:10:52,840 Speaker 1: time I heard the phrase defensive wound. Doctor Chris Sperry, 151 00:10:52,840 --> 00:10:56,360 Speaker 1: I'm sure you will recall a murder case I tried 152 00:10:56,520 --> 00:11:00,959 Speaker 1: in inner City Atlanta of a millionaire's wife who ostensibly 153 00:11:01,040 --> 00:11:06,800 Speaker 1: died of smoke inhalation, but was covered in defensive wounds, 154 00:11:06,800 --> 00:11:11,360 Speaker 1: even on her knees. Explain how you can determine whether 155 00:11:11,440 --> 00:11:16,200 Speaker 1: bruises are defensive wounds or not. Well. Defensive wounds are 156 00:11:16,240 --> 00:11:21,360 Speaker 1: in locations where a person would raise their hands, raise 157 00:11:21,400 --> 00:11:24,520 Speaker 1: their arms, or say if they're laying on their back, 158 00:11:24,640 --> 00:11:27,760 Speaker 1: even raise their feet or legs, try to ward off 159 00:11:27,800 --> 00:11:32,079 Speaker 1: blows or you know, keeping the sailing from striking the hand, 160 00:11:32,160 --> 00:11:34,960 Speaker 1: the face or the body. And so when you see 161 00:11:35,679 --> 00:11:40,080 Speaker 1: injuries like this on the hands or the wrists of forearms, 162 00:11:40,120 --> 00:11:43,600 Speaker 1: on the knees, on the legs of feets that are 163 00:11:43,679 --> 00:11:46,680 Speaker 1: out of context, you know, they really don't have another 164 00:11:46,800 --> 00:11:49,520 Speaker 1: piece of explanation. In the over the course of the 165 00:11:49,559 --> 00:11:53,839 Speaker 1: whole of salts, the possibility of defensive wounds becomes very 166 00:11:53,960 --> 00:11:57,560 Speaker 1: very strong, and especially also depending on how the person 167 00:11:57,679 --> 00:12:01,080 Speaker 1: is attacked as well. If it's an if a cutting instrument, 168 00:12:02,080 --> 00:12:05,439 Speaker 1: a club of all that, that's you know, it's very 169 00:12:05,520 --> 00:12:08,360 Speaker 1: unusual for the assailant to get your one strike and 170 00:12:08,520 --> 00:12:13,440 Speaker 1: incapacitate the person. It's usually an onslaught of blows and 171 00:12:13,800 --> 00:12:17,760 Speaker 1: the victim is raising their hands, raising their legs, and 172 00:12:17,920 --> 00:12:20,200 Speaker 1: you know, if they're on their ground, I've seen the 173 00:12:20,240 --> 00:12:23,280 Speaker 1: business rooms on the bottles of people's feet just from 174 00:12:23,280 --> 00:12:26,040 Speaker 1: when they're on the ground trying to push away the 175 00:12:26,080 --> 00:12:30,360 Speaker 1: assailants that instead receiving blows on their feet. So it really, 176 00:12:30,640 --> 00:12:32,839 Speaker 1: you know, it's it's a part of the totality of 177 00:12:33,000 --> 00:12:37,440 Speaker 1: looking at the case and you're separating out injuries that 178 00:12:37,480 --> 00:12:41,880 Speaker 1: are thence soing to be lethal and injuries that have 179 00:12:42,080 --> 00:13:08,280 Speaker 1: another explanation. Time story with Nancy Grace. Law enforcement officers 180 00:13:08,400 --> 00:13:12,439 Speaker 1: responded to the sat A Creek run home on November 181 00:13:12,480 --> 00:13:16,640 Speaker 1: twenty two ten. Law enforces from Officers respond, they get 182 00:13:16,640 --> 00:13:19,360 Speaker 1: a call. I was actually Artron Timmins who went up 183 00:13:19,400 --> 00:13:21,200 Speaker 1: there first to do a check because if mom calls 184 00:13:21,280 --> 00:13:23,080 Speaker 1: him and tells them to go look for they haven't 185 00:13:23,080 --> 00:13:26,840 Speaker 1: heard anything from Brandy Peters that day. He walks up 186 00:13:26,840 --> 00:13:31,920 Speaker 1: and sees blood outside the home, calls law enforcement, auser 187 00:13:32,000 --> 00:13:35,240 Speaker 1: journe again. Officer Kid respond first and foremost, and they 188 00:13:35,240 --> 00:13:38,200 Speaker 1: approached the home. They go into the home and they 189 00:13:38,200 --> 00:13:41,040 Speaker 1: were able to force entry by breaking a window and 190 00:13:41,080 --> 00:13:44,880 Speaker 1: they realized what was happening there. They're later joined by 191 00:13:44,880 --> 00:13:48,520 Speaker 1: Sean Wyman, officer tell Heiss Police Department, and they go 192 00:13:48,600 --> 00:13:50,480 Speaker 1: into the home and they found what you've already seen. 193 00:13:50,800 --> 00:13:54,800 Speaker 1: You were hearing Florida Asa John Fuchs describing what happened 194 00:13:54,880 --> 00:13:58,600 Speaker 1: in the home of Brandy Peters, just twenty seven years old. 195 00:13:59,080 --> 00:14:04,720 Speaker 1: Brandy Peters dead, twins aged six, Tamaya, Tanaya, and a 196 00:14:04,720 --> 00:14:10,600 Speaker 1: little three year old sibling all dead, but why back 197 00:14:10,640 --> 00:14:13,640 Speaker 1: to leave I page Crime online dot Com investigative reporter. 198 00:14:14,040 --> 00:14:17,600 Speaker 1: So a neighbor contacts police, Police get there. Then what 199 00:14:17,679 --> 00:14:22,440 Speaker 1: happens and they discovered the bodies Nancy Brandy Peters. She 200 00:14:22,680 --> 00:14:27,720 Speaker 1: was shot. Her twins, Tamia and Tania were killed in 201 00:14:27,760 --> 00:14:32,560 Speaker 1: different ways. Tamia was shot and Tania was drowned. Also 202 00:14:32,720 --> 00:14:37,360 Speaker 1: drowned was kay whoa Only wait a minute, now, this 203 00:14:37,440 --> 00:14:41,160 Speaker 1: is getting crazy. We've got three modes of death. That 204 00:14:41,240 --> 00:14:44,240 Speaker 1: tells me a lot about the killer. A home in 205 00:14:44,320 --> 00:14:46,600 Speaker 1: truder would just ship. First of all, it's doubtful to 206 00:14:46,640 --> 00:14:49,120 Speaker 1: me that a home in truth there was no forest century, 207 00:14:49,640 --> 00:14:53,720 Speaker 1: no forced century into the home. A home intruder would 208 00:14:53,720 --> 00:14:57,000 Speaker 1: just a home invader would come in. Very rarely do 209 00:14:57,120 --> 00:14:59,920 Speaker 1: you see them killed children. Now, we did see the 210 00:15:00,240 --> 00:15:04,160 Speaker 1: in the DC mansion murders, but typically a home invader, 211 00:15:04,200 --> 00:15:08,960 Speaker 1: a home intruder does not kill children. Statistically, when you 212 00:15:09,040 --> 00:15:14,280 Speaker 1: see dead children murdered children, there is typically a closer 213 00:15:14,320 --> 00:15:18,080 Speaker 1: connection or it's sex related. Also, when you have a 214 00:15:18,120 --> 00:15:24,440 Speaker 1: home invader, you don't see three modes of death. Jason Oceans, 215 00:15:24,480 --> 00:15:28,440 Speaker 1: a veteran defense attorney, no stranger to a courtroom. You've 216 00:15:28,440 --> 00:15:32,360 Speaker 1: got shooting you've got bludgeoning and now two of the 217 00:15:32,440 --> 00:15:37,200 Speaker 1: children were drowned. That is a personal connection. It defies 218 00:15:37,240 --> 00:15:41,760 Speaker 1: statistics of home invaders. You're correct, Nancy. It shows, you know, 219 00:15:42,760 --> 00:15:46,920 Speaker 1: either a crime of passion to someone the victims new 220 00:15:47,040 --> 00:15:51,480 Speaker 1: or we're familiar with, or it's a purposeful contract killing 221 00:15:51,520 --> 00:15:55,920 Speaker 1: where there was a revenge factor for something else at 222 00:15:55,920 --> 00:16:01,400 Speaker 1: this point potentially unknown. So the multiple levels of the 223 00:16:01,720 --> 00:16:06,920 Speaker 1: modes of murder, the drowning, beating, shooting all indicate either 224 00:16:06,960 --> 00:16:12,040 Speaker 1: a connectivity, uh that's personal to the victims, to the perpetrator, 225 00:16:13,000 --> 00:16:17,760 Speaker 1: or in fact that there's something more, either revenge involving 226 00:16:17,880 --> 00:16:22,760 Speaker 1: a greater level of for purposefulness. You're right, I don't 227 00:16:22,800 --> 00:16:25,560 Speaker 1: know what that last phrase was, greater level of violence 228 00:16:25,640 --> 00:16:30,040 Speaker 1: for purposefulness. Okay, I'll try to just soak that in 229 00:16:30,120 --> 00:16:34,880 Speaker 1: for amo track killing some something that involved. I mean, 230 00:16:35,040 --> 00:16:37,920 Speaker 1: are you serious a contract killing on a twenty seven 231 00:16:38,000 --> 00:16:43,400 Speaker 1: year old mom of three? Okay? To doctor Debbie Joffey 232 00:16:43,480 --> 00:16:48,440 Speaker 1: ellis psychologist and AGI professor, Columbia University. Doctor Debbie, we 233 00:16:48,560 --> 00:16:54,520 Speaker 1: also know that the children's bodies were stacked up in 234 00:16:54,560 --> 00:16:58,480 Speaker 1: the bathtub, like yep, he put boxes on top of 235 00:16:58,520 --> 00:17:03,520 Speaker 1: each other. Now, I'm just a civilian. I'm just a JD. 236 00:17:04,520 --> 00:17:08,120 Speaker 1: You're the shrink extraordinary and I mean no offense. By that, 237 00:17:08,960 --> 00:17:13,760 Speaker 1: I mean Columbia University. That ain't shabby, doctor Debbie. In 238 00:17:13,920 --> 00:17:19,760 Speaker 1: my experience prosecuting homicides, when there is a random killing, 239 00:17:20,280 --> 00:17:25,280 Speaker 1: the killer doesn't take time to stage the scene. They 240 00:17:25,320 --> 00:17:29,760 Speaker 1: don't hang around the crime scene and think, wow, I'll 241 00:17:29,840 --> 00:17:34,760 Speaker 1: stack the children's bodies up in the bathtub. No, they 242 00:17:35,119 --> 00:17:40,119 Speaker 1: do their business, whether it's a burglary, a robbery, a 243 00:17:40,359 --> 00:17:45,080 Speaker 1: sex assault, and they leave. They get out of there, 244 00:17:45,119 --> 00:17:47,520 Speaker 1: they do the deed, they do the killing, They're gone. 245 00:17:48,920 --> 00:17:53,879 Speaker 1: They don't stick around to stage or manipulate the crime scene, 246 00:17:53,920 --> 00:17:57,560 Speaker 1: Doctor Debbie. Yeah, from everything I've heard from you and 247 00:17:57,680 --> 00:18:00,679 Speaker 1: your gifts, so fun Nancy, it sounds like whoever the 248 00:18:00,720 --> 00:18:05,240 Speaker 1: perpetrator was may have had a need to show he 249 00:18:05,400 --> 00:18:11,159 Speaker 1: had the ultimate power and control over the victims. It 250 00:18:11,400 --> 00:18:17,320 Speaker 1: sounds like it's possible that he or she felt their strength, 251 00:18:17,440 --> 00:18:20,200 Speaker 1: or if it was a man whose manlihood was being 252 00:18:20,600 --> 00:18:26,760 Speaker 1: questioned or threatened, and perhaps a desire to prove to 253 00:18:26,800 --> 00:18:31,320 Speaker 1: the victims that there was no inadequacy and he was 254 00:18:31,440 --> 00:18:36,600 Speaker 1: the boss or she. Okay, Doctor Debby, Joffe Ellis, Okay, 255 00:18:36,800 --> 00:18:41,520 Speaker 1: you know how much I love and I recognize your 256 00:18:41,600 --> 00:18:45,920 Speaker 1: brilliance in your education, and I certainly it would never 257 00:18:46,000 --> 00:18:50,040 Speaker 1: question qualifications a professor of a professor at Columbia University. 258 00:18:50,520 --> 00:18:54,200 Speaker 1: But okay, here comes to the other foot. Why are 259 00:18:54,200 --> 00:18:57,520 Speaker 1: you pretending it's a woman, Because I mean, I know 260 00:18:57,640 --> 00:19:03,879 Speaker 1: that's all PC politically correct, but statistically another woman would 261 00:19:03,960 --> 00:19:08,000 Speaker 1: never do this. Now, very often when women commit murder, 262 00:19:08,080 --> 00:19:12,480 Speaker 1: they kill their own children. But Levi Page, is there 263 00:19:12,600 --> 00:19:17,360 Speaker 1: any indication that Brandy Peter's death the mom was suicide. 264 00:19:17,640 --> 00:19:22,960 Speaker 1: There's no indication. Nancy and law enforcement immediately suspected that 265 00:19:23,000 --> 00:19:24,720 Speaker 1: it was someone that she knew. They didn't know who 266 00:19:24,760 --> 00:19:26,880 Speaker 1: did it, but when they arrived at the scene, they 267 00:19:26,920 --> 00:19:29,400 Speaker 1: immediately thought that it was someone that she knew because 268 00:19:29,400 --> 00:19:32,280 Speaker 1: there was no signs of a forced injury into the 269 00:19:32,320 --> 00:19:35,159 Speaker 1: home and the home was locked. Well, I get it, 270 00:19:35,200 --> 00:19:37,800 Speaker 1: but that no signs of forced entry, and you're saying 271 00:19:37,800 --> 00:19:40,320 Speaker 1: the home was locked. Yes, they couldn't get in. When 272 00:19:40,359 --> 00:19:44,600 Speaker 1: police arrived, they had got it. That's right, So, doctor Sperry, 273 00:19:44,680 --> 00:19:47,440 Speaker 1: isn't it true? You can look at injuries and determine 274 00:19:47,480 --> 00:19:50,200 Speaker 1: if it was a suicide. I mean for somebody like you, 275 00:19:50,640 --> 00:19:54,760 Speaker 1: that's child's playing pretty much. It's class majority of very 276 00:19:54,800 --> 00:20:19,000 Speaker 1: straightforward Yes, crime stories with Nancy Grace, DNA, cell phone 277 00:20:19,040 --> 00:20:21,800 Speaker 1: records and enough debt to want to kill fair to 278 00:20:21,800 --> 00:20:25,160 Speaker 1: say that something happened around this time period that cause 279 00:20:25,280 --> 00:20:27,720 Speaker 1: or to stop using yourself fair to say is and 280 00:20:27,880 --> 00:20:30,880 Speaker 1: during records are consistent with that. Yes, phone records put 281 00:20:30,920 --> 00:20:33,399 Speaker 1: Henry Sigura near the crime the day it happened, and 282 00:20:33,480 --> 00:20:39,160 Speaker 1: even show communication between him and victim Brandy Peters. Bud 283 00:20:39,240 --> 00:20:42,640 Speaker 1: DNA testing wasn't quite as conclusive about him being at 284 00:20:42,640 --> 00:20:45,800 Speaker 1: the crime scene. Mister Cigura and all four victims are 285 00:20:45,800 --> 00:20:49,560 Speaker 1: excluded as having contributed to the DNA found on that projectile. Yes, 286 00:20:50,040 --> 00:20:52,760 Speaker 1: the testing never presented a strong enough match to say 287 00:20:52,840 --> 00:20:56,520 Speaker 1: the DNA belonged to Cigura. Plus testing also showed DNA 288 00:20:56,640 --> 00:21:01,120 Speaker 1: for an unknown woman. Then there's the motive. Twenty thousand 289 00:21:01,160 --> 00:21:04,560 Speaker 1: dollars behind in child support payments for a son Sigura 290 00:21:04,640 --> 00:21:08,040 Speaker 1: thought wasn't even his. He wrote many letters to the 291 00:21:08,080 --> 00:21:11,400 Speaker 1: Florida Department of Revenue, and the message she stated that 292 00:21:11,560 --> 00:21:14,639 Speaker 1: I was stupid for senting a birth certificate for a 293 00:21:14,760 --> 00:21:18,080 Speaker 1: child that was not even mine all key elements that 294 00:21:18,200 --> 00:21:21,160 Speaker 1: the state presented to Jersey in court Tuesday to suggest 295 00:21:21,200 --> 00:21:25,080 Speaker 1: Henry Siguri killed his mistress, Brandy Peters, their son Javonte, 296 00:21:25,480 --> 00:21:28,119 Speaker 1: and her twin daughters, Tamaya and Tanaya. You were just 297 00:21:28,200 --> 00:21:31,639 Speaker 1: hearing our friends at wt XL ABC twenty seven. That 298 00:21:31,840 --> 00:21:36,040 Speaker 1: was Jada Williams. I got a question. This is something 299 00:21:36,160 --> 00:21:40,880 Speaker 1: I don't quite get, Jason Oceans. Why are they referring 300 00:21:40,920 --> 00:21:44,879 Speaker 1: to her as a mistress. She is a mother of three, 301 00:21:45,080 --> 00:21:49,840 Speaker 1: and one of the three belongs to Henry Sigura, so 302 00:21:50,119 --> 00:21:52,400 Speaker 1: she's the mother of his child. Why are they portraying 303 00:21:52,440 --> 00:21:56,920 Speaker 1: the dead victim is a mistress like she's some big tramp. Yeah, 304 00:21:57,440 --> 00:21:59,920 Speaker 1: I hear that in the description, and it does bob 305 00:22:00,000 --> 00:22:04,800 Speaker 1: to me as well. It's quite sexist and creates negative connotation. 306 00:22:05,840 --> 00:22:12,240 Speaker 1: Apparently he had an extramarital affair with the victim. I 307 00:22:12,320 --> 00:22:15,719 Speaker 1: too object to that. Well, I certainly would not brag 308 00:22:15,760 --> 00:22:20,160 Speaker 1: about it, Jason Oceans, defense attorney. Another thing, Jason Oceans, 309 00:22:20,359 --> 00:22:24,160 Speaker 1: you and I are both very familiar with proving parenthood. 310 00:22:24,680 --> 00:22:29,639 Speaker 1: This guy was twenty thousand. Now, I heard what the 311 00:22:29,680 --> 00:22:34,119 Speaker 1: reporter said. She said that DNA didn't was not conclusive 312 00:22:34,160 --> 00:22:38,119 Speaker 1: to match up to Henry Sigura, the father of the baby, 313 00:22:38,160 --> 00:22:41,720 Speaker 1: the three year old. I hear that, but I also 314 00:22:41,760 --> 00:22:46,080 Speaker 1: heard you twenty thousand dollars in back child support and 315 00:22:46,160 --> 00:22:50,720 Speaker 1: that he's still denied the baby was his, Jason Oceans. 316 00:22:50,760 --> 00:22:54,320 Speaker 1: To get child support ordered, you very often have to 317 00:22:54,359 --> 00:22:57,200 Speaker 1: have a DNA test. If he had any questions about 318 00:22:57,200 --> 00:22:59,639 Speaker 1: this being his child, he would have contested it in court. 319 00:23:00,080 --> 00:23:01,679 Speaker 1: You would have had to have had in order to 320 00:23:01,720 --> 00:23:04,119 Speaker 1: obtain the child support. Since they weren't married and not 321 00:23:04,200 --> 00:23:06,040 Speaker 1: the putative father, you would have had to have had 322 00:23:06,040 --> 00:23:10,560 Speaker 1: an order of affiliation court ordered, then get some get 323 00:23:10,600 --> 00:23:15,359 Speaker 1: some DNA and make that determination. So well, here's another 324 00:23:15,440 --> 00:23:19,800 Speaker 1: issue to figure out, Jason Oceans, here's another issue. Leavi 325 00:23:19,960 --> 00:23:23,119 Speaker 1: Page Crime online dot Com investigative reporter. Or is it 326 00:23:23,320 --> 00:23:28,399 Speaker 1: true that Sigura was also quote dating quote that's certainly 327 00:23:28,440 --> 00:23:34,440 Speaker 1: putting perfume on the Big three other women at the time. Yes, 328 00:23:34,520 --> 00:23:37,080 Speaker 1: and he also had a wife that he was married 329 00:23:37,119 --> 00:23:39,920 Speaker 1: to with three children. You know, it just never ends. 330 00:23:39,960 --> 00:23:45,480 Speaker 1: Doctor Debbie Joffe Ellis Psychologists, Adjunct Professor, Columbia University. You 331 00:23:45,560 --> 00:23:49,600 Speaker 1: said something earlier that at first it didn't it didn't 332 00:23:49,640 --> 00:23:52,320 Speaker 1: persuade me. But now, actually it is not the fact 333 00:23:52,320 --> 00:23:54,280 Speaker 1: that it could have been a woman killer. But you 334 00:23:54,320 --> 00:23:59,600 Speaker 1: said something about control, control, and I don't know how 335 00:23:59,600 --> 00:24:02,320 Speaker 1: to verbal lies as doctor Debbie, and I'm sure you're 336 00:24:02,359 --> 00:24:04,360 Speaker 1: going to do a better job than I would. I'd 337 00:24:04,359 --> 00:24:06,720 Speaker 1: have to write this out for a closing argument and 338 00:24:07,640 --> 00:24:11,840 Speaker 1: learn it verbatim. But when you've got an individual like Sigura, 339 00:24:12,000 --> 00:24:16,359 Speaker 1: Henry Sigura, and he's playing all these different women like 340 00:24:16,480 --> 00:24:21,200 Speaker 1: their puppets, dating three other women, plus Brandy Peters has 341 00:24:21,200 --> 00:24:26,000 Speaker 1: his son, plus he's married as five women he's either 342 00:24:26,080 --> 00:24:31,360 Speaker 1: sleeping with or seeing's it is control. You said this 343 00:24:31,440 --> 00:24:37,160 Speaker 1: is about control, and you're manipulating other people's lives through deceit. 344 00:24:38,480 --> 00:24:40,520 Speaker 1: Could you put a label on that for me, because 345 00:24:40,600 --> 00:24:44,840 Speaker 1: I don't know the word for that except liar. It's 346 00:24:44,840 --> 00:24:47,960 Speaker 1: hard for me to find just one label. But I 347 00:24:48,080 --> 00:24:53,359 Speaker 1: think in addition to the apparent needs for control, may 348 00:24:53,440 --> 00:24:59,320 Speaker 1: be a need for people to recognize that he has 349 00:24:59,400 --> 00:25:03,159 Speaker 1: full power, are in control, and if anyone would question that, 350 00:25:03,960 --> 00:25:08,160 Speaker 1: or if he is made to think that others are 351 00:25:08,240 --> 00:25:15,080 Speaker 1: questioning his potency and manliness, then to prove that he 352 00:25:15,240 --> 00:25:18,919 Speaker 1: is the king of the universe, He fuelled by rage, 353 00:25:18,960 --> 00:25:25,360 Speaker 1: hatred and resentment, just commits these violent acts. Okay, I've 354 00:25:25,359 --> 00:25:29,040 Speaker 1: got a little update from here in the studio Leavi page. 355 00:25:29,080 --> 00:25:31,760 Speaker 1: I'm very disappointed in you. Let me just put that 356 00:25:31,800 --> 00:25:36,119 Speaker 1: out there because Jackie Howard, wrong or right, is saying 357 00:25:36,160 --> 00:25:39,719 Speaker 1: that the three other women, in addition to the wife 358 00:25:39,800 --> 00:25:43,359 Speaker 1: and the murder victim, Brandy Peters, we're in Tallahassee that 359 00:25:43,400 --> 00:25:48,840 Speaker 1: we know of, and apparently there were other girlfriends in 360 00:25:48,960 --> 00:25:52,959 Speaker 1: Alabama and another one in Minnesota. Okay, well wait, I've 361 00:25:52,960 --> 00:25:56,600 Speaker 1: gotta make a float chart. Three in Tallahassee, the wife, 362 00:25:57,480 --> 00:26:06,560 Speaker 1: the victim, one in Minnesota, and a definite number in Alabama. 363 00:26:06,640 --> 00:26:11,800 Speaker 1: I mean, I've got a question, Stephen Lampley, detective author 364 00:26:11,880 --> 00:26:14,600 Speaker 1: outside your door, how does he have time to commit 365 00:26:14,640 --> 00:26:20,359 Speaker 1: a murder? He's gallivanning between Alabama, Tallahasee, Minnesota and the 366 00:26:20,440 --> 00:26:23,760 Speaker 1: Lord only knows where else to see all these women, Nancy. 367 00:26:23,800 --> 00:26:27,120 Speaker 1: Apparently he made time at some point along the way 368 00:26:27,160 --> 00:26:30,919 Speaker 1: to and I'm seeing also in this I'm picking up 369 00:26:30,920 --> 00:26:35,320 Speaker 1: on some angry he made me. But apparently am On 370 00:26:35,600 --> 00:26:40,639 Speaker 1: told him on him to the suspect. I'm picking up 371 00:26:40,640 --> 00:26:43,560 Speaker 1: on some maybe perhaps and I'm a psychologist, but I'm 372 00:26:43,600 --> 00:26:46,760 Speaker 1: picking up on some anger issues with this gentleman. But 373 00:26:46,880 --> 00:26:49,440 Speaker 1: back to your question, it appears as though he made 374 00:26:49,480 --> 00:26:52,600 Speaker 1: obviously made time to do this. Maybe he let some 375 00:26:52,640 --> 00:26:54,520 Speaker 1: other women on the side go while he could come on, 376 00:26:54,600 --> 00:26:57,160 Speaker 1: he could commit these murders. Guys, I'm looking right now 377 00:26:57,160 --> 00:27:00,600 Speaker 1: and you can see it at crime online dot com. 378 00:27:00,680 --> 00:27:02,359 Speaker 1: And Jack, I want to make sure that you have 379 00:27:02,480 --> 00:27:08,600 Speaker 1: this posted there. A Facebook photo of these two little twins. Oh, 380 00:27:08,720 --> 00:27:15,919 Speaker 1: my stars, they are precious. I'm pretty sure one of 381 00:27:15,920 --> 00:27:21,119 Speaker 1: them has on a hot pink it's gonna be aerial 382 00:27:21,800 --> 00:27:26,359 Speaker 1: or what's the princess? Oh, brave, brave? Isn't that a 383 00:27:26,480 --> 00:27:31,440 Speaker 1: princess with red hair? I can see some red hair 384 00:27:31,440 --> 00:27:34,480 Speaker 1: peeking out. And the other one has on a pale 385 00:27:34,480 --> 00:27:38,919 Speaker 1: pink T shirt that looks like it may be a 386 00:27:39,080 --> 00:27:44,560 Speaker 1: frozen and they are back to back, big smiles. They've 387 00:27:44,560 --> 00:27:49,600 Speaker 1: got their hair meticulously done, just like long hair. And 388 00:27:49,680 --> 00:27:52,960 Speaker 1: you know how much time that takes the mom, Brandy 389 00:27:53,080 --> 00:27:56,560 Speaker 1: to do all that hair. Lucy's hair, Jason, you wouldn't 390 00:27:56,560 --> 00:27:58,400 Speaker 1: believe it. You got to look at her on Facebook. 391 00:27:59,240 --> 00:28:01,280 Speaker 1: You know it was short and curly, while she wanted 392 00:28:01,320 --> 00:28:03,679 Speaker 1: to let it grow out. I was against it, but 393 00:28:03,800 --> 00:28:07,119 Speaker 1: I picked my battles for a tattoo, sorry Sperry and 394 00:28:07,400 --> 00:28:10,760 Speaker 1: body piercings, and I let her do it. It's almost 395 00:28:10,760 --> 00:28:13,720 Speaker 1: down to her waist and it is, you know, to 396 00:28:14,119 --> 00:28:18,280 Speaker 1: brush that. These little girl's hair is so long and 397 00:28:18,400 --> 00:28:23,320 Speaker 1: she's got it in an up du They're just precious. 398 00:28:23,320 --> 00:28:27,960 Speaker 1: Their little ears are pierced and they aren't oh beautiful 399 00:28:28,000 --> 00:28:32,520 Speaker 1: brown eyes and they both have perfect smiles. They're dead, 400 00:28:33,440 --> 00:28:38,400 Speaker 1: their dead bodies or stat on top of each other 401 00:28:38,480 --> 00:28:43,120 Speaker 1: along with their three year old little butt brother in 402 00:28:43,200 --> 00:28:48,720 Speaker 1: the bathtub, and mommy fought like a bear, like a 403 00:28:48,760 --> 00:28:56,480 Speaker 1: tiger to save her three children. Henry Sigura, the baby 404 00:28:56,520 --> 00:29:03,400 Speaker 1: boy's dad. Cell phone places him in the area at 405 00:29:03,440 --> 00:29:08,240 Speaker 1: the time, all the phone with her just before Brandy 406 00:29:08,360 --> 00:29:11,320 Speaker 1: Peters is murdered. But we got to have more than 407 00:29:11,400 --> 00:29:26,440 Speaker 1: a cell phone call. Crime stories with Nancy Grace. You're 408 00:29:26,440 --> 00:29:28,880 Speaker 1: going to hear you about the quarter that he was 409 00:29:28,960 --> 00:29:31,720 Speaker 1: interviewed by tell Aissa Police Department on two different occasions 410 00:29:31,880 --> 00:29:33,960 Speaker 1: Day's apartment. First ones to know if I had the 411 00:29:34,040 --> 00:29:36,520 Speaker 1: Death of the Sun and the second ones follow up. 412 00:29:36,960 --> 00:29:39,400 Speaker 1: And what he did is he lied along for him. 413 00:29:39,440 --> 00:29:41,520 Speaker 1: He said, I was not there. I was at home 414 00:29:41,600 --> 00:29:44,800 Speaker 1: the entire time to tell as the police department did 415 00:29:44,800 --> 00:29:48,200 Speaker 1: their investigation, realize he was lying, called him in for 416 00:29:48,240 --> 00:29:51,600 Speaker 1: a second interview to clarify I was at home all 417 00:29:51,600 --> 00:29:55,200 Speaker 1: the time. Checked my cell phone records, they say I 418 00:29:55,320 --> 00:29:57,640 Speaker 1: was there. But he made a mistake. He thought he 419 00:29:57,640 --> 00:30:00,000 Speaker 1: could pull one over the eyes and tell ASA police department. 420 00:30:00,240 --> 00:30:01,720 Speaker 1: What they did is they found out he had a 421 00:30:01,760 --> 00:30:05,080 Speaker 1: separate phone number that he didn't tell them about. And 422 00:30:05,160 --> 00:30:07,400 Speaker 1: what they did when they checked that cellphone record as 423 00:30:07,440 --> 00:30:09,720 Speaker 1: they turned he wasn't back there at the time. That 424 00:30:09,840 --> 00:30:12,600 Speaker 1: Brandy Peters and the kids. For sure, you are hearing 425 00:30:12,640 --> 00:30:19,400 Speaker 1: Florida A sa John Fuchs describing an incredible lie allegedly 426 00:30:19,440 --> 00:30:23,520 Speaker 1: told by the biodad Henry Sigura, aged forty one. Twenty 427 00:30:23,520 --> 00:30:26,959 Speaker 1: seven year old Brandy Peters dead after fighting like a 428 00:30:27,000 --> 00:30:31,200 Speaker 1: tiger to save her three children, Tamaya, Tenaya as Javante, 429 00:30:31,440 --> 00:30:35,280 Speaker 1: all murdered and stacked up like boxes dead in the bathtub. 430 00:30:36,360 --> 00:30:40,480 Speaker 1: Levipage Crime Online dot Com investigative reporter, So let me 431 00:30:40,560 --> 00:30:46,040 Speaker 1: understand this. Suspect Henry Sigura brags to police, Hey, I 432 00:30:46,160 --> 00:30:49,440 Speaker 1: was nowhere near there. You know, check out my cell phone. 433 00:30:49,840 --> 00:30:53,080 Speaker 1: I was with my wife. And then it turns out 434 00:30:53,120 --> 00:30:56,920 Speaker 1: he's got more than one cell phone. Explain, yes, he 435 00:30:56,960 --> 00:30:59,480 Speaker 1: had a secret cell phone that he used to keep 436 00:30:59,560 --> 00:31:02,120 Speaker 1: up with the women that he was having an affair with. 437 00:31:02,240 --> 00:31:06,040 Speaker 1: And you're right, Nancy. He did deny being at the 438 00:31:06,120 --> 00:31:09,760 Speaker 1: home of the victims, but then police say that his 439 00:31:09,840 --> 00:31:12,480 Speaker 1: phone pain got a tower near the home, and then 440 00:31:12,520 --> 00:31:15,280 Speaker 1: he admitted that he was there and then left. He 441 00:31:15,360 --> 00:31:17,000 Speaker 1: said that he didn't want to admit it because he 442 00:31:17,040 --> 00:31:19,720 Speaker 1: didn't want his wife to find out that he was 443 00:31:19,800 --> 00:31:23,880 Speaker 1: having affairs. So he's saying that all of his nefarious actions, 444 00:31:24,280 --> 00:31:27,840 Speaker 1: deleting texts, having a double cell phone, all this was 445 00:31:27,880 --> 00:31:29,760 Speaker 1: to keep his wife from finding out him. How could 446 00:31:29,800 --> 00:31:33,000 Speaker 1: she not know with all of these girlfriends, So apparently 447 00:31:33,120 --> 00:31:35,959 Speaker 1: she had known that he had had affairs in the past, 448 00:31:36,360 --> 00:31:39,200 Speaker 1: but he had convinced her that he was no longer 449 00:31:39,440 --> 00:31:41,800 Speaker 1: having any affairs and he didn't want her to find 450 00:31:41,800 --> 00:31:45,760 Speaker 1: out that he was continuing his extramarital affairs. To Stephen Lampley, 451 00:31:45,880 --> 00:31:51,240 Speaker 1: detective author of Outside Your Door Stephen Lampley, every PI 452 00:31:51,960 --> 00:31:55,760 Speaker 1: knows that when you have a person with multiple cell phones, 453 00:31:56,280 --> 00:32:02,000 Speaker 1: something ain't right. In the famous words, um, doctor fun, 454 00:32:02,960 --> 00:32:06,800 Speaker 1: something is wrong. Remember that in the OJ Simpson case, 455 00:32:07,120 --> 00:32:12,240 Speaker 1: something is wrong. When your husband has multiple cell phones, 456 00:32:12,560 --> 00:32:16,000 Speaker 1: you better check the phone history. Fancy that's correct. Now. 457 00:32:16,040 --> 00:32:19,840 Speaker 1: There are some occasions that I have been guilty of 458 00:32:19,880 --> 00:32:22,280 Speaker 1: that as well, where I would have one cell phone 459 00:32:22,400 --> 00:32:25,000 Speaker 1: that I had for worked in one for personal use. 460 00:32:25,200 --> 00:32:28,280 Speaker 1: But that's that's that's something that we checked out pretty quick. 461 00:32:28,480 --> 00:32:31,400 Speaker 1: But when you have a cell phone for personal reason too, oh, 462 00:32:31,480 --> 00:32:34,840 Speaker 1: you're different from all the other guys. You're different from 463 00:32:34,920 --> 00:32:38,080 Speaker 1: all the other guys cheating. Okay. Actually, for a period 464 00:32:38,080 --> 00:32:42,040 Speaker 1: of time when I was at Court TV and at HLN, 465 00:32:42,400 --> 00:32:44,640 Speaker 1: I had two cell phones. One was a leftover and 466 00:32:44,680 --> 00:32:47,080 Speaker 1: then I got another one issued. I got rid of 467 00:32:47,120 --> 00:32:50,040 Speaker 1: them because my son John David would get on one 468 00:32:50,040 --> 00:32:52,760 Speaker 1: and play games, and I knew, okay, that's got to go. 469 00:32:53,040 --> 00:32:57,239 Speaker 1: But they certainly were not secret cell phones. Speaking of 470 00:32:57,680 --> 00:33:01,479 Speaker 1: cell phones, speaking of phone records, take a listen to 471 00:33:01,520 --> 00:33:04,920 Speaker 1: this call that Sir Gura gets, and she told you 472 00:33:04,960 --> 00:33:09,280 Speaker 1: that your son was either missing or dead, right, yes, sir, 473 00:33:09,520 --> 00:33:12,840 Speaker 1: but she said he was. She said that she heard 474 00:33:12,920 --> 00:33:16,320 Speaker 1: that they couldn't find him. That's what she said. Said 475 00:33:16,480 --> 00:33:18,920 Speaker 1: people saying they thought that he was with the guy Kayla. 476 00:33:20,560 --> 00:33:23,560 Speaker 1: And she also tells you those two little girls that 477 00:33:23,600 --> 00:33:25,640 Speaker 1: you spent a year with that called your daddy were 478 00:33:25,640 --> 00:33:32,520 Speaker 1: also dead, right, yes, and Brandy and Brandy. Yes, Yet 479 00:33:32,680 --> 00:33:36,080 Speaker 1: you never made a phone called a Brandy. You never 480 00:33:36,120 --> 00:33:38,760 Speaker 1: made a phone called a law enforcement. You never made 481 00:33:38,760 --> 00:33:41,720 Speaker 1: a phone called it anybody to check on that situation. Dude, 482 00:33:43,400 --> 00:33:46,160 Speaker 1: What could I do about the situation? Find out if 483 00:33:46,160 --> 00:33:49,160 Speaker 1: your son was dead or whether it was with somebody else. Well, 484 00:33:49,160 --> 00:33:51,240 Speaker 1: when she told me that she wasn't sure if he 485 00:33:51,280 --> 00:33:52,960 Speaker 1: was dead or not, that was over the phone when 486 00:33:52,960 --> 00:33:54,720 Speaker 1: I called her to get him make an appointment to 487 00:33:54,720 --> 00:33:57,840 Speaker 1: get my son's hat. Brandy. Once I went to her 488 00:33:57,920 --> 00:34:01,440 Speaker 1: house and went to a house of getting my science, 489 00:34:01,440 --> 00:34:03,760 Speaker 1: how ready, she then told me that you know they 490 00:34:03,760 --> 00:34:07,800 Speaker 1: found Jivanta, he was in house. He does, Okay, let 491 00:34:07,880 --> 00:34:12,120 Speaker 1: me understand this. To doctor Debbie Joffe ellis psychologist, adjunct professor, 492 00:34:12,160 --> 00:34:17,200 Speaker 1: Columbia University, Doctor Debbie, he gets a call from his 493 00:34:17,320 --> 00:34:23,120 Speaker 1: female hairdresser telling him that Brandy, Peter's twenty seven year 494 00:34:23,160 --> 00:34:27,120 Speaker 1: old girlfriend and his son and the two twins he 495 00:34:27,280 --> 00:34:31,920 Speaker 1: was raising are all dead and he doesn't make a 496 00:34:31,960 --> 00:34:34,600 Speaker 1: single inquiry. He just picks up his other son and 497 00:34:34,600 --> 00:34:38,279 Speaker 1: goes to the hairdresser. No questions asked. Now, how my 498 00:34:38,360 --> 00:34:40,480 Speaker 1: soul has to believe that is not evidence of guilt. 499 00:34:40,719 --> 00:34:43,680 Speaker 1: I wouldn't ask you to believe that it's not evidence 500 00:34:43,719 --> 00:34:48,000 Speaker 1: of guilt. I think that it is. Yeah, there's no surprise, 501 00:34:48,120 --> 00:34:52,200 Speaker 1: there's no shock, there's no horror. I think it is 502 00:34:52,280 --> 00:34:57,200 Speaker 1: evidence of guilt. To you, Jason Ocean's veteran defense attorney. 503 00:34:57,239 --> 00:34:59,040 Speaker 1: How do you get your way? How do you claw 504 00:34:59,120 --> 00:35:01,040 Speaker 1: your way out of that? Well, you know, in and 505 00:35:01,080 --> 00:35:03,000 Speaker 1: of itself, I mean, I'm sure the doctor can tell you. 506 00:35:03,080 --> 00:35:05,680 Speaker 1: There are people that are you know, don't react normally 507 00:35:05,840 --> 00:35:08,560 Speaker 1: or as we perceive normal to be, whatever that is, 508 00:35:09,040 --> 00:35:13,680 Speaker 1: to those types of issues. That they're dispassionate, they're cold. Uh, 509 00:35:14,000 --> 00:35:17,040 Speaker 1: something else takes over and they have a zero reaction 510 00:35:18,480 --> 00:35:22,200 Speaker 1: where we would all expect something more significant. So, in 511 00:35:22,280 --> 00:35:26,080 Speaker 1: and of itself, yeah, it's different from what we perceive 512 00:35:26,360 --> 00:35:29,839 Speaker 1: as the normal or average response to something like this, 513 00:35:30,520 --> 00:35:33,520 Speaker 1: but that's that's not ultimately going to be you know, 514 00:35:33,560 --> 00:35:39,680 Speaker 1: the totality of the disposition of guilt. So it's certainly 515 00:35:39,719 --> 00:35:45,920 Speaker 1: something to work with. Um but there's enough in the 516 00:35:45,920 --> 00:35:48,440 Speaker 1: there's enough in the field relative to how people react. 517 00:35:48,480 --> 00:35:51,000 Speaker 1: Not everyone does to those types of things. It's certainly 518 00:35:51,040 --> 00:35:54,520 Speaker 1: strange and you got to work with it. But yeah, 519 00:35:54,560 --> 00:35:57,080 Speaker 1: that's a challenge, Nancy in and of itself. I agree. 520 00:35:57,600 --> 00:36:01,600 Speaker 1: Leave Page investigative reporter crimal line dot com. He denies 521 00:36:01,640 --> 00:36:04,279 Speaker 1: he's there, How has it proven that he was there 522 00:36:04,440 --> 00:36:07,800 Speaker 1: or was it well? When his cell phone data shows 523 00:36:07,840 --> 00:36:11,160 Speaker 1: that he was there. He admitted that he hied to police. 524 00:36:11,200 --> 00:36:14,040 Speaker 1: He did say that he was there but then left. 525 00:36:14,440 --> 00:36:17,400 Speaker 1: As a matter of fact, cell phone records take center 526 00:36:17,520 --> 00:36:21,240 Speaker 1: stage in the courtroom. Take a listen. Did Henry Sigura 527 00:36:21,520 --> 00:36:26,399 Speaker 1: lie about being at the house on that day that 528 00:36:26,440 --> 00:36:31,920 Speaker 1: many times? Why did Henry Sigura set up an albi 529 00:36:32,200 --> 00:36:36,520 Speaker 1: with his phone knowing full well that he was at 530 00:36:36,520 --> 00:36:49,280 Speaker 1: his house? Why? Why was her cell phone taken? The 531 00:36:49,320 --> 00:36:52,359 Speaker 1: only thing at his house has been taken in this 532 00:36:52,400 --> 00:36:57,160 Speaker 1: situation is her cell phone. Why we're gonna talk about 533 00:36:57,200 --> 00:37:06,560 Speaker 1: that because it was incriminating against Yeah. Why Why is 534 00:37:06,600 --> 00:37:14,239 Speaker 1: there only one void pattern in the blood spatter one? 535 00:37:14,800 --> 00:37:17,360 Speaker 1: A void pattern is a situation in which blood spatter 536 00:37:17,480 --> 00:37:21,000 Speaker 1: is made and it is blocked by an object. Specifically, 537 00:37:21,040 --> 00:37:23,880 Speaker 1: as we're talking about the person that perpetrated this event, 538 00:37:25,239 --> 00:37:30,160 Speaker 1: there's only one void pattern. If there are more than 539 00:37:30,200 --> 00:37:32,640 Speaker 1: one person, there would be more than one void spot, 540 00:37:32,680 --> 00:37:37,600 Speaker 1: and there is not. There is one void pattern, dude, 541 00:37:37,640 --> 00:37:41,040 Speaker 1: Doctor Chris Sperry. What is a void pattern? A void 542 00:37:41,040 --> 00:37:45,480 Speaker 1: pattern means that there's something in the way or the 543 00:37:45,680 --> 00:37:50,680 Speaker 1: obscure in certain parts of blood spatter. So that if 544 00:37:51,160 --> 00:37:54,280 Speaker 1: you see a pattern on the wall of different blood spatters, 545 00:37:54,480 --> 00:37:56,440 Speaker 1: but you have a blank space in the middle, in 546 00:37:56,520 --> 00:37:59,080 Speaker 1: the biddle or over towards the edge, that means that 547 00:37:59,160 --> 00:38:02,080 Speaker 1: there was something that was in the way at the 548 00:38:02,080 --> 00:38:04,960 Speaker 1: time of flood, was spattered and has been removed. So 549 00:38:05,400 --> 00:38:09,439 Speaker 1: it's the absence of evidence that tells you that there 550 00:38:09,480 --> 00:38:12,080 Speaker 1: was actually something there. Let's go into the corn stay 551 00:38:12,120 --> 00:38:15,440 Speaker 1: to Florida versus Henry Sigura. We the jury find as 552 00:38:15,480 --> 00:38:18,960 Speaker 1: follows as count one of the indictment concerning the murders 553 00:38:18,960 --> 00:38:22,840 Speaker 1: of Brandy Peters, the jury finds the defendant is guilty 554 00:38:22,840 --> 00:38:26,320 Speaker 1: of first greet murderer. As to count two, we's the 555 00:38:26,400 --> 00:38:30,960 Speaker 1: jury find as follows as the count too the indictment 556 00:38:31,080 --> 00:38:34,600 Speaker 1: concerning the murder to Maya Peters. The defendant is guilty 557 00:38:34,640 --> 00:38:38,840 Speaker 1: of first great murder as to count three, with the 558 00:38:38,920 --> 00:38:42,040 Speaker 1: jury find the defendant is guilty of first greet murder. 559 00:38:42,760 --> 00:38:45,680 Speaker 1: As the count four, we the jury find the defendant 560 00:38:45,760 --> 00:38:50,399 Speaker 1: is guilty of first street murder. To Levi page Levi, 561 00:38:51,120 --> 00:38:54,640 Speaker 1: what was the sentence, Nancy? He was sentenced to life 562 00:38:54,640 --> 00:38:58,080 Speaker 1: in prison. This was actually a death penalty case. But 563 00:38:58,719 --> 00:39:02,120 Speaker 1: Sigura actually testified during the penalty phase that he didn't 564 00:39:02,160 --> 00:39:05,200 Speaker 1: want to present any mitigating factors and if the jury 565 00:39:05,520 --> 00:39:08,120 Speaker 1: thought that he was guilty, then he deserved the death penalty. 566 00:39:08,960 --> 00:39:11,239 Speaker 1: But the jury deliberated they had the option to go 567 00:39:11,280 --> 00:39:13,239 Speaker 1: for the death penalty, but they decided to go for 568 00:39:13,360 --> 00:39:18,000 Speaker 1: a life sentence instead. Well, even now, a defense team 569 00:39:18,080 --> 00:39:22,799 Speaker 1: was planning Cigura's appeal. Nancy Grace Crimes Toy signing off 570 00:39:23,440 --> 00:39:24,200 Speaker 1: Goodbye Freddi